# Just got a new bunny! Super nervous...



## lavendertealatte (Apr 18, 2018)

Hi everyone! I just got a new bunny  He or she (I can't tell) is 3-4 months old (wasn't able to get an exact age). I brought it home yesterday and I'm trying to potty train. I'm super nervous that we finally have a little one! How long will this process typically take? I've just been putting the poops and pee into the box and its hay and food is there. I'm unsure of whether I need to do more than that. Also I'm nervous and don't want to bother it too much since it just got to us but it seems to be doing fine, not too scared. Wonder how much I should interact or not interact with it ... will it be bothered if I reach around in its enclosure? But since it's not a teen yet I wonder if it will even be territorial?


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## Blue eyes (Apr 18, 2018)

First 48 hours should be strictly hands off. Only reasons your hand should be in the cage is to refill water, food, or hay. I wouldn't even worry about picking up stray poos. Let him/her mark its new territory. 

Bunnies hide their nervousness-- that's instinct. So don't let appearances deceive you. Let him have 48 hours undisturbed. Well, go about your normal business so he can get used to the new normal sounds, sights, and smells. Just leave him/her alone. 

A rabbit savvy vet should be able to give you a better estimation of age. Then you can also find out the sex and how soon he/she can be fixed. Potty training is more easily done once they are fixed. 

Potty training when hormones are acting up can be impossible. Even younger bunnies that do litter train may forget that training with the onset of hormones, so don't stress about the training. 

Rabbits are adult by 6-7 months of age, so 3-4 months is certainly within the realm of when hormones could start affecting behavior. 

Rabbits typically train themselves once fixed. Just be sure that the cage floor is bare and the only litter/bedding is in the litter box.


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 18, 2018)

Ahhh okay I'll stop picking up the stray poos then eeps >< this is what the enclosure looks like right now but I really want to put something soft down when I'm sure it won't get peed on


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## Bribble (Apr 18, 2018)

Congrats on the new bun! As stated above, litter training probably won't do you much good right now. Either wait until after it's fixed or until hormones settle out if you don't plan on getting it fixed. it shouldn't take too long when you do begin litter training. Just keep the cage floor bare so that they will feel uncomfortable peeing on it (they don't like to get their bums wet with pee). They should honestly train themselves this way. My two indoors were in this process until one decided to have babies so now she's got a bedding floor again and the other is on my carpet. I wouldn't worry too much about the poops. While you should clean it up and throw it in the box, it's not too big a deal personally. As long as I can keep the pee contained I'm happy. I actually just vacuum out any poop in the cage/floor (my rabbits are very desensitized . . . ) If you decide to expand the cage or let her free roam do it very slowly in small spacial increments. 

As for handling, when you do begin handling him I'd be there as much as possible. Maybe don't pick him up too much at first but definitely pet and feed treats as often as possible. When I got my first baby I was in 6th grade and just let her run around the floor while I laid on my stomach and did homework. When they get comfortable they'll start to climb all over you and lick you. As much exposure as possible while he's still young and manageable will do wonders for him in the future.


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 18, 2018)

Thanks Bribble! Outside of the enclosure is carpet... I should wait until bun is at least peeing in the litter box regularly before I just let bun run around outside right? Or should I sit with it in the enclosure? 
didn’t realize it would already be experiencing hormonal changes! So far bun only peed once on the plastic floor last night and I wiped it and put it in the box ... I’ll see what I come home to after work.


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## Bribble (Apr 18, 2018)

I would definitely let her master using the litter box in her enclosure before moving on to any new spaces. Sometimes they have minor setbacks in training when they get more territory they feel they must mark as theirs. I would not sit in the enclosure if shes gonna be free range. They understand that whatever areas they get access too arent just theres so they need a space they can go back to and call their own .You should refrain from even trying to pet them in their space at that point. I'd try hooking a pen up to the cage and sitting in that with them. That way its not crowded ans they can go back to "safety"if they feel the need to


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## Lucky_2017 (Apr 18, 2018)

You definitely need somewhere soft so it can sleep on it, rabbits don’t really tend to like hard, tile floorings. If you’re not sure about the gender, try and get a pic of his/her ‘underside’ so maybe we can identify. [emoji5]


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## Blue eyes (Apr 18, 2018)

Bare floor is fine for now. If the litter box is large enough for bunny to lay in (it should be that large), then bunny can always lay there. Just top the litter with hay. (I couldn't tell in the photo whether or not there is hay in the litter box.) The litter topped with hay will provide a soft spot to lay if bunny so chooses. During potty training, a pet bed may only confuse him. They like to pee on soft surfaces.

Since the cage is so roomy, you don't need to be in a rush to let him out of his space for exercise. If you do, I'd agree with Bribble to use an x-pen to limit that space initially. That's the ideal place to sit and let him approach you. (You get to ignore him to show him that you are "safe." Later you can start petting him as/if he allows.)


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 18, 2018)

Yup there’s hay in there.
Could I use a hidey house that can be marked as theirs?
I’m not sure about free range which is sort of why the enclosure is so large... was hoping to treat it as a sort of x-pen and be able to sit in there with it. I may eventually free range to possibly to a part of the den but only under supervision... because carpet and baseboards and other tempting chewables.


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## Blue eyes (Apr 18, 2018)

Once litter trained, most rabbits can do fine on carpet -- especially while supervised. All of mine have done well on carpet -- I even used it inside a few cages. Only one rabbit chewed the baseboards so we put a 1x3 in front. That doesn't mean that yours will not chew carpet, but the odds are that he won't (especially if neutered).

If you aren't comfortable free-ranging, an x-pen can still come in quite handy. It can, as mentioned, be used as a play area and an area for you to sit in without violating bunny's personal space (ie. cage). The photos show how an x-pen can be attached near a cage opening and create a large play area. This is what we did with a new bunny that was a potential bondmate for an existing bunny. (that's why the cage is small. just temporary)

You'll see how bunny is exploring the space and also (2nd photo) how my son was letting bunny investigate him. He did not reach out to pet bunny in these early stages so that bunny could see him as "safe." ((old photos. my son is married now ))







Using a hidey house should be fine. Just keep an eye out that bunny doesn't decide to use that area to potty. I no longer use corner litter boxes. I have found that the larger, rectangular ones are more appealing to bunnies and give them more space. 

The hay can completely cover all of the litter. It serves as a barrier between wet litter and bunny paws. It also entices them inside. Just refresh it a couple times per day.


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 18, 2018)

I wanted a rectangle one as well, but the corner litter box had a nice dip.. was worried bun wouldn't hop over a tall-ish edge since he's still pretty small, and it was bigger than the other corner litter boxes I've seen which aren't recommended so I decided to try it. I haven't found any stray pees since yesterday night ... could that mean he is using his box? He sits in there quite often and munches on hay and the hay is all spread out over the surface now. I think I would see it if there were a puddle somewhere else, I hope.. I don't think it would have dried by now after coming back from work. I did put the box in the spot where he peed first since it seemed like that must be the corner he preferred.


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## Blue eyes (Apr 18, 2018)

Sounds like he's doing a good job!


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 19, 2018)

either that or that area is now the best place for traction and that's where he hangs out all the time so it's just chance!


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 19, 2018)

so he peed in the other corner next to the litter box, maybe I should put another box there to catch it?
it's day 2 and he seems to have no interest other than eating hay so I'm doubting if he'll even come explore and check us out


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## Bribble (Apr 19, 2018)

lavendertealatte said:


> so he peed in the other corner next to the litter box, maybe I should put another box there to catch it?
> it's day 2 and he seems to have no interest other than eating hay so I'm doubting if he'll even come explore and check us out


I would just clean it up and make sure to get rid of the scent (you can't smell it but he can). If he continues to pee in other corners put litter boxes there too. Eventually he'll pick a "favorite" one and you can one by one remove any others


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## Bribble (Apr 19, 2018)

lavendertealatte said:


> I wanted a rectangle one as well, but the corner litter box had a nice dip.. was worried bun wouldn't hop over a tall-ish edge since he's still pretty small, and it was bigger than the other corner litter boxes I've seen which aren't recommended so I decided to try it. I haven't found any stray pees since yesterday night ... could that mean he is using his box? He sits in there quite often and munches on hay and the hay is all spread out over the surface now. I think I would see it if there were a puddle somewhere else, I hope.. I don't think it would have dried by now after coming back from work. I did put the box in the spot where he peed first since it seemed like that must be the corner he preferred.



I just use one of those long and low Tupperware boxes. It's perfectly sized for my rabbit and there's no problem jumping in and out


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 19, 2018)

bunbun also eats lots of hay but doesn't seem to be making much dent in the pellets... 

also if you buy a bale of hay where do you typically store it? I was thinking garage but I saw a huge roach in there the other day so now I'm hesitant >__<


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 19, 2018)

Bunbun is sitting like a loaf with his ears pressed down .. is he mad?  cause i've cleaned up his poops and stuck them in the box with him?


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## JBun (Apr 19, 2018)

Peeing next to the box can sometimes just be them hanging their butt over the edge if there's a low edge, and missing peeing in the box. Solution is to get a higher edged litter box. I prefer the rectangle ones too. They are more accommodating for bun to hang out in and eat, especially as they get older and bigger.

If he seemed comfortable being around people and not scared, I would probably just invade his space and sit in his pen with him. I wouldn't bug him but would give him a chance to come check me out and get comfortable with me. If you don't want to sit in his area, you could pen off an area around his cage for him to come out and explore with you in there. If you are concerned about accidents on the carpet, put a blanket down or I've even used a tarp. Sitting quietly with your bun in a smaller area, and not trying to pick up or force contact, is the best way to form a bond with your bun and let them learn they can trust you.
http://flashsplace.webs.com/bondingwithyourbunny.htm

If the pellets are a different kind(brand, type) than he is used to from his previous home, then that could be why he's not eating them, different smell and taste. It's always best to keep a new bun on the same food and then gradually over a couple weeks at least, switch them onto a different pellet if you intend to change the brand/type of pellet. This minimizes digestive problems occurring from the change, something that rabbits, baby rabbits in particular, are prone to. It also gives them a chance to get used to the taste of the new pellet.

If he's on the same pellet as he was getting in his previous home, then maybe he just really likes the taste of the hay you are feeding. You aren't feeding alfalfa are you? If you are feeding a grass hay, then it's perfectly fine for him to be eating lots of it. Rabbits should always be free fed grass hay. Eventually he should take an interest in the pellets and start eating them, unless they are spoiled in some way, then you don't want him to eat them and should throw them out and get a new bag/batch of pellets.

I store my hay in an enclosed storage closet where rodents and other critters can't get to it. Though if we had roaches here they would be able to. If you live in a humid environment, the most important thing with hay storage is making sure there is good air circulation so the hay doesn't mold, which can be dangerous for rabbits to eat(moldy hay). It's also good to store it somewhere where critters can't have access and contaminate the hay(indoor closet in a cardboard box or old duvet).


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## JBun (Apr 19, 2018)

He could be sleeping? If he's not and is awake(they can sleep with eyes open) and seems off(not moving, not wanting to eat when he normally would), there could be a problem and something could have upset his stomach, which can potentially be a serious problem when it comes to rabbits.

Maybe open up his cage and see if he's interested in coming out and exploring. That can be a good way to see if a bun is feeling alright, unless they are a nervous or scared bun.


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 19, 2018)

I am feeding alfalfa hay cause he’s only 3 or 4 months old and that’s what I read.
They sleep with eyes open?? Hmm is there a way to tell if they’re sleeping then? Actually yeah right now it does seem like he’s sleeping.... I can kind of see him slightly moving with his breathing and his eyes are sort of halfway open. But if his eyes are fully open and alert looking i don’t think he’s sleeping right?
I don’t think it dribbled off the side based off of where the pee was ... I’ll have to keep watching.
Compared to other rabbits I’ve seen and been with he doesn’t seem scared of humans relatively speaking.. i wonder if it’s cause of his age?


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## JBun (Apr 19, 2018)

Well it's no wonder he only wants to eat hay then. It's like the best treat ever to them. It's not really ideal to only feed alfalfa hay(even though some rabbit sites suggest it). It has too much unbalanced calcium which could cause bladder issues, and it can make for a very picky bun when it's time to take them off the alfalfa and switch to grass hay. 

I would suggest to gradually reduce the amount of alfalfa hay and start introducing a grass hay like timothy or orchard. Then get him mostly on grass hay with only alfalfa as a treat. While you are trying to get him onto the grass hay, you will need to keep a close eye on his consumption and make sure that as you are reducing the amount of alfalfa, that he starts eating the pellets and grass hay well.

If he seems settled and loafed, not moving and not really reacting to anything, they are usually sleeping. It's different when they are hunched up and feeling sick. They will usually eye squint, grind their teeth, seem restless by moving their feet or shifting position. If you aren't sure, you can always disturb them. If touching him wakes him up, then he was sleeping. If you do that and he still won't really move around or react much to you, he may be feeling unwell.


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 19, 2018)

Oh dear. I wonder if I mix in the orchard grass if he will eat it or pick around it. I’m confused now cause the website I read it from seems like solid advice.


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## Blue eyes (Apr 19, 2018)

Mixing the hay is a good idea because it helps bunny get used to the grass hay. He's bound to get some of the timothy or orchard grass hay even if by accident. That helps him get used to it. 

Alfalfa is rich so it is usually fine for rabbits still growing, however there is that possibility as Jbun mentioned that a bunny will choose only the hay. Not all rabbits will do that. Since the pellets are already alfalfa-based (juvenile pellets) it is even ok to feed hay that is only grass hay when they are young. But since your bunny already loves the alfalfa hay, mixing it with other grass hays will help him switch later on. 

Don't worry too much. It's great that he's liking his hay and hopefully he'll like the grass hay too. I'd rather see him happy to eat hay over pellets than eating pellets to the exclusion of hay. 

By gradually reducing alfalfa and increasing grass hay (as Jbun suggests), he should transition without much difficulty.


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 19, 2018)

So after 48 hours it does seem like he's a different bunny. While cleaning up the door was open and he took the opportunity to hop out .. I thought okay that's fine, but then he started leaving poops around and I realized I hadn't fully prepared the area for a bunny and it wasn't blocked off yet from the rest of my house so I tried to pick him up twice and he kicked which was unusual since he didn't kick at all when I picked him up before. So I'm thinking ohh no what have I done.. he's going to hate me now.. so then tried to say "Home!" and herded him to an area where I could pick him up (luckily no kicking this time) and place him at the entrance and herd him inside. After that he started squeezing his head through the bars and periscoping a lot more and the tile doesn't seem to be bothering him at all! He is running about just fine... so I guess he was just cautious when he first got here?


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 19, 2018)

Also what treats are okay for a rabbit his age? Also just gave him a bunch of orchard grass and he ate it phew!!! no rejections yet. Ummm I think I'm kind of allergic to orchard grass though ... or it's in my head... I'm feeling a bit itchy after touching it.
Sat in his pen and he was very comfy coming up to me and I think asking for pets, so I'm glad he's not mad about earlier.

I can't tell if he's drinking enough water! I've only seen him use the water bowl, not the bottle, but I just checked the litter box and I don't see any expanded pellets .. I did spy some pee outside but it was a very little amount compared to the first time. By the way are water dishes safe for him?


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## bluebird (Apr 20, 2018)

Water dishes are just fine,they will need cleaned more often than a bottle.


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 20, 2018)

Ok thanks! I'll take the bottle out then I think all it's doing is dripping.
Found pee on the grass chewing mat so I guess he's not litter training as well as I thought! Unfortunately it wasn't a corner.. so I'm not sure what happened there, wouldn't be a logical spot to put a second box.


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## Blue eyes (Apr 20, 2018)

Poos outside the cage in a new area is perfectly normal. Thankfully, poos are (or should be) dry and odorless -- easy enough to sweep up.

I prefer water dishes for rabbits. They tend to drink more from them. It is more natural. He'll drink enough water if he's eating hay.

Avoid picking him up for now -- especially avoid doing so to get him inside the cage. He'll just grow to resent it. That's where that exercise pen comes in handy. Just shrink it in until he has no choice but to hop in. In his eyes, he is still the one deciding to go in (as opposed to being placed in or near the door).

He's old enough to start gradually introducing greens. Read* here* on how to introduce them slowly and safely to avoid tummy upset. Once he likes a certain green, you can use that green as a "treat." I wouldn't try to give any fruit yet because of the high sugar. Wait on that until he's grown accustomed to a diet that includes daily greens. He will see the greens as something special when hand-fed.


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## Blue eyes (Apr 20, 2018)

lavendertealatte said:


> Ok thanks! I'll take the bottle out then I think all it's doing is dripping.
> Found pee on the grass chewing mat so I guess he's not litter training as well as I thought! Unfortunately it wasn't a corner.. so I'm not sure what happened there, wouldn't be a logical spot to put a second box.



Maybe remove the grass chewing mat. Remember, nothing on the cage floor until he's fully potty trained.


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 20, 2018)

Blue Eyes which x-pen do you have?


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## Blue eyes (Apr 20, 2018)

I have two, actually. 
This one: 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000H8YTJI/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

and one similar to this one:
https://www.petsmart.com/small-pet/...living-things-small-animal-playpen-21862.html


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 20, 2018)

Thanks, how high do you suggest? And what is that blue thing? Looks useful. Is it a chair mat?


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## Blue eyes (Apr 20, 2018)

I've always used 30" and never had a problem. There is the very, very rare bunny that actually seems to climb. (read about it on this forum, but none of mine ever did)
The white pen is actually 29." Just be sure to not have a box against the side that can act as a step over. You'll see I keep the boxes away from the pen sides. 

The blue thing is just a fleece blanket. Any fleece fabric can work. 

For the hotel set up, I had a heavy duty tarp on the floor (which happened to be blue) and then put that fleece blanket on top of the tarp.


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 20, 2018)

Yeah I just saw my bunbun on top of the box.. no idea how he managed to jump that high to get on top.. and then he was scared to get down but instead of jumping down and before I could help, stumbled off the edge falling into the space close to the wall .... X_X

Tried offering lettuce to him. He smelled it, didn't want it. Next veggie...

Oh when do you think I ought to change the litter box out? I wanted it to get good and smelly before I did so he would associate the smell.

How big are those spaces between the bars? Bun is pretty small and might try to squeeze through.


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 20, 2018)

Is it a bad idea to be picking up poops with my bare hands?

I also noticed bun bun in the weirdest position today basically totally laying on his back in the litter box so kind of against the edge picking at his underside and there was this interesting white looking blob so I tried to pick him up to see what it was. I think it was only matted hair... he was wiggling a lot so I couldn't get a good look.

Also I let him out into the rest of the den.. it's so fun to see him doing zoomies, but alas, he peed under the chair on the carpet.. I picked him up as quickly as I could and put him in his litter box so I think some of the pee ended up in my hand, and I wiped the area with vinegar and water .. is that going to be enough to get the smell out so he's not tempted to do it again there?


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## Blue eyes (Apr 21, 2018)

Don't give up on the lettuce. You need to offer it multiple times. It is unfamiliar to him so it isn't unusual for a rabbit to ignore it at first. He doesn't know what to make of it. The more it is offered, the more familiar it becomes and the more likely he'll try it. 

The space between bars with the black x-pen is only 1.6" -- too small to fit through. The white pen is even smaller. 

Too much space too soon causes potty accidents, as you just found out.  I'd suggest keeping him more confined. Remember, it takes time to work up to that much space precisely for this reason. That's the benefit of the x-pen: create a limited exercise space just outside his cage. That way he can return easily to his litter box. Using that confined area for exercise may need to continue for weeks before expanding. Take it slow. (You can review the process *here*.)

His early wanderings out in the x-pen may result in territorial poos. I'd leave them there until he goes back in his cage. Otherwise he may feel the need to keep marking. Those typically subside as time goes on. Don't see any harm in using your hands. I use a tiny brush and dustpan. The dustpan is just a few inches wide. But that's only if the dogs don't clean it up first .


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## Sue (Apr 21, 2018)

Owning a new bunny is always scary. I wanted a bunny when I was a little girl and the answer was always no. I have had many bunnies as an adult and they are all different in their needs and personalities. Feed your little friend timothy hay and plenty of fresh greens. Consult the HOUSE RABBIT SOCIETY for diet needs and other rabbit information. Wishing you all the best!


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 21, 2018)

Found a lot more pee in the pen not in the box this morning. Hoping this isn’t impossible! He keeps digging out the paper towels. I just read on your site to put it underneath the litter so I’m going to try that and clean it out today.

Is it really necessary to not reach in while he’s inside to refill food dishes? So he knows the cage is his? Cause that’s not really possible for us right now. I also sit in the pen sometimes but I try to confine myself to one side.


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## Blue eyes (Apr 22, 2018)

lavendertealatte said:


> Is it really necessary to not reach in while he’s inside to refill food dishes?I also sit in the pen sometimes but I try to confine myself to one side.



Not sure where that idea comes from. Reaching inside to refill food dishes is fine. I don't encourage people to reach inside a cage to pet bunny but rather to reserve petting for when bunny is outside the cage. 

Do you mean that you sit inside his _cage_ or inside a _pen_ that is set up outside his cage? Ideally it would be inside an x-pen that is set up outside the cage (where bunny still has access in and out of his cage). 

Until he's fixed, he may not litter train well. Hormones can wreak havoc on your efforts.


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 22, 2018)

from what I read in House Rabbit Society.
I sit inside his enclosure but ignore him until he comes over to be pet.  He can have the other half of the pen (where the litter box is) is my rationale. 
I noticed since I started giving Orchard Grass, he's not as interested in eating hay 24/7 and I see him eating pellets more. In fact I noticed in the litter box he had some pretty poopy looking oddly shaped cecotrope type poop today, and I wonder if it's from the pellets


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## Blue eyes (Apr 22, 2018)

Are you mixing the orchard grass hay with the alfalfa hay?


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 22, 2018)

Kind of. Not thoroughly just alternating what I put. The first day he seemed to be eating the orchard grass just fine but now I feel like he’s digging through

Tried lettuce again. He literally smells it and then goes away. Hrmmmmmm

Am sitting in the pen as I write this hope he’s not mad. He tends to keep his poops to the other side now so maybe he knows.....


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## Blue eyes (Apr 23, 2018)

You don't want him cutting back on his hay eating. If he starts favoring the pellets over the hay, that isn't good and could be the cause of the strange poos. I'd mix the two hays together. If he knows you'll switch between the two, then he may skip the orchard and wait for the favored alfalfa. By mixing them he hopefully won't eat less hay as it sounds like he started to do by the two hays being fed separately. 

I would try the lettuce every day for a number of days. You want it to seem familiar which means frequent offerings.


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## Bribble (Apr 23, 2018)

lavendertealatte said:


> bunbun also eats lots of hay but doesn't seem to be making much dent in the pellets...
> 
> also if you buy a bale of hay where do you typically store it? I was thinking garage but I saw a huge roach in there the other day so now I'm hesitant >__<



I just bought a bale of Timothy hay from my local horse supply person. I just keep it in the garage on top of the freezer chest for now. I typically take a flake or two and keep it somewhere in my "rabbit room" in a horse feed bag just so I don't have to go into the garage everytime I want to feed hay. You just want to make sure you don't put it in an airtight container because hay needs to "breathe" and if it's got moisture in it (which if it's nice and green it definitely will) putting it in an airtight container will make it mold. And don't just set it straight on the ground either, sometimes that will make the bottom start to mold, so if you've got a pallet or even just two pieces of wood you can set it on that'd be good for air circulation. Learned that lesson the hard way with my horses.


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 23, 2018)

I added some alfalfa hay to the orchard grass in the box.. kind of buried it with the grass to "mix" but yeah.. I think he's definitely.. choosing which hay to eat....  Think I should mix it like a salad before I add it into the box? Feel like it wouldn't make a difference at this point since he's learned to differentiate lol.


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## Bribble (Apr 23, 2018)

lavendertealatte said:


> I added some alfalfa hay to the orchard grass in the box.. kind of buried it with the grass to "mix" but yeah.. I think he's definitely.. choosing which hay to eat....  Think I should mix it like a salad before I add it into the box? Feel like it wouldn't make a difference at this point since he's learned to differentiate lol.


Which one is he not eating? Mixing it might work, although honestly I just buy the bales in either Alfalfa/Orchard mixes or Timothy/Orchard mixes


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## Bribble (Apr 23, 2018)

He could not like a specific one if it's too stemmy and thick. Some rabbits prefer a "softer" or greener grass. I fed mine Bermuda once because it was all I had from the horse and they were not fans because it was stemmy and colourless


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## Blue eyes (Apr 23, 2018)

Haha, Bribble. My rabbits LOVE the bermuda grass hay . But our bermuda is very green and has very fine, long strands. (I get it by the bale)
Lavender is working on transitioning her rabbits from alfalfa to grass hay. So she won't need much more alfalfa.

Yes, lavender, I would definitely mix it as much as you can before putting it in. The idea is that he'll accidentally get some of the orchard grass while digging for the alfalfa and in so doing, will gradually get used to the orchard grass hay. I wouldn't hesitate to try other grass hays as well-- especially since you may have inadvertently "trained" him to differentiate the orchard hay by not mixing it to begin with. If you try a different grass hay -- _and mix it in_ -- you may have better luck.


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 23, 2018)

Tried offering lettuce a third time. He sniffed it and quickly hopped off with a flick of the ears with what I think if I read his language correctly, apparent displeasure.


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## Blue eyes (Apr 23, 2018)

what kind of lettuce?


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 23, 2018)

The stuff you find in "mixed lettuce greens and spinach" salad boxes. They come in a variety of colors.. today I offered a reddish one.


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## Blue eyes (Apr 23, 2018)

Each lettuce type is different-- especially in bunny's eyes. So if you're offering a different type of lettuce each time, that isn't the same as re-offering the same type over and over until it is familiar.

If you offer romaine lettuce, it needs to be offered everyday for several days until he tries it. If you offer red-leaf lettuce, same thing -- offer it every day for several days (if needed) until he tries it.

Romaine, red-leaf lettuce, green-leaf lettuce, spinach, --- each of these is different and each one needs to be treated as a different green. Only offer one type at a time. (Do not offer iceberg lettuce which may be mixed in with a "salad mix.")


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 23, 2018)

Bun bun just pushed his head through the squares and got his head stuck..!!! Really scary for me, I had to push his head back out, luckily I was there when it happened.. X_X
These are the 1.5 inch squares.. the smallest ones already. Is it possible he will do it again or do you think it was scary enough that he won't? :/ I cuddled with him in my lap afterwards and he seemed super tired after that but I don't know if he will try again....


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## Blue eyes (Apr 24, 2018)

If you're concerned, you could zip-tie some lengths of cardboard around the bottom portion of the cage. I just looked at grids I had and they had 9 squares across (rather than your 8). So those square openings would be smaller than yours. Probably a different brand of cube shelving.


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 24, 2018)

Oh good catch. I mixed two brands together. I think I'll rebuild it with the 9 squares on the bottom because I caught him sticking his head through that same area again X_X


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 25, 2018)

This morning I am finding a loooooot of cecotropes uneaten left around the cage :/
I think he's containing the pee to the box mostly but the poops no. Dry poops are okay but cecotropes are harder to clean up. Also isn't he supposed to be eating those? Thinking to switch back to the alfalfa hay because with the orchard grass mixed in he's eating more pellets. Or limit the pellets...

Bunbun also sometimes digs at my clothes and tries to chew them.. is this normal? I haven't had a bunny do that to me before. He also licks me which I think is a good thing but then the digging part ...


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## Blue eyes (Apr 25, 2018)

Uneaten cecotropes are usually from a diet too rich. Giving him alfalfa hay will make his diet even more rich. Alfalfa is a legume and super rich. Cutting back on pellets (also rich) would be a good idea. 

Digging at your clothes is usually an attempt to get at your skin. He can't groom your clothes so he's trying to get to your skin.


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 25, 2018)

Just came home to a HUGE amount of mushy poop!!!!


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 25, 2018)

sorry graphic image..
I suspect it's all the pellets he's been eating ever since I switched over to mostly orchard grass..
I took out the pellets now and also just gave him orchard grass... should I stick to the orchard grass only until things clear up? :/

also it smells really bad. Is he okay? He's hopping around just fine now.


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## JBun (Apr 25, 2018)

That is a lot of cectropes! And yes, they do stink, but they look fully formed and not pasty, so that's good. Just means he is producing too much, instead of there being a bacterial imbalance causing them to be pasty and left uneaten.

If this seems to have started with him eating the pellets, I think I would either remove the pellets or just give him a pinch, and go back to the alfalfa hay if he's still not eating the orchard grass very well. Then what I would do is feed him enough alfalfa that it lasts 8-9 hours, remove whatever is left and leave only grass hay for the next 3-4 hours. Providing the alfalfa most of the day will ensure that he is eating enough so he's not going hungry, but will give him a few hours where the only choice is the grass hay, so if he is getting hungry again then he will only have the grass hay to eat. Then at 12 hours repeat, alfalfa for 8-9 hours, grass hay for the next 3-4 hours. When feeding hay only(no pellets), you will also need to provide a salt lick.

Then as you notice him gradually starting to eat the grass hay more, cut back on the alfalfa hay a bit more, gradually decreasing until you are only feeding a small amount and mostly grass hay. When you get to this point I would start gradually adding pellets in(unless you opt to go with a pellet free diet) as you gradually decrease the alfalfa hay even more, until you get to the point where you are only feeding the alfalfa as a treat and your bun is on the normal amount of pellets for his age and size, and freely eating grass hay.

One other thing is the pellets you are feeding. There could be an issue with them and your bun possibly being sensitive to something in them. What brand and type of pellets are you feeding?


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 25, 2018)

Thanks for the detailed advice Jbun! The pellets are Kaytee FortiDiet Pro Health Juvenile Rabbit Food


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## JBun (Apr 26, 2018)

When you start the pellets back up, maybe consider switching to oxbow or another high quality brand. It could be that the kaytee pellets are a problem for your bun. They have a lot of grains and other unusual ingredients that might have been the cause of the excess cecals. If your bun will almost be 6 mo. old when you transition back on, maybe just go straight for the adult pellets.

When feeding hay only, it's also a good idea to weigh your bun regularly to ensure he's still either gaining(from still growing) or stays at a healthy weight. Also good to run your hands over the back to make sure he doesn't feel bony from weight loss. Back should have muscles on each side of the spine and feel rounded.


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 26, 2018)

Yeah I think it's the pellets :/
Gave just hay yesterday night.. I think alfalfa, and this morning found only normal poos only.. then put in grass today and only a little bit of pellets before I left work.. when I put in the pellets he went right for it .. when I came back from work I saw a few soft poops. He didn't seem interested in getting pets from me today after work which is sort of unusual .. every day before this he comes over for petting and makes very content tooth purring sounds .. but today.. nope. he was going to the dish and trying to eat from it even though there was nothing inside but crumbs, and I had just put in grass and he sniffed it and wasn't interested. I wonder if he was feeling hungry ..
We let him out in the evening and he def wasn't as hyper as he was yesterday (the day I had to clean ALL those cecotropes..) Still binkying, just kind of in slower motion lol.
x___X

By the way.. sometimes he starts chewing at the carpet. I stop him by saying no and putting my hand under his chin to block him.. but what would be more effective, especially if I'd like to have him roam the area without constant supervision eventually? 
Also I did catch him chewing on the baseboard. I saw BlueEyes on your site that you "tac" a 1x3 .. can I ask what that means, do you mean you stick it on with tickytac or am I misunderstanding "tac" .. and how do you get the right lengths, did you cut it yourself?

Well, now that I know he likes the pellets so much.. they work very well for convincing bunbun to go back into the pen after playing outside  because saying Bunbun go home! doesn't work 

He's stretched out on his cage floor now, which is a first because it's not in the litter box! Yay I'm glad he's feeling comfy to flop  But I'm a little bummed he does not seem interested in my attention today  Might he be annoyed cause I was picking him up and flipping him on his back so I could wipe his poopy butt? Hrm...... I'm kind of tired/flustered.. maybe he's picking up on that. 

Also I have not ventured into nail trimming but I can't imagine how anyone does it peacefully.

Also how does outdoor time work? When I had a bunny as a kid he was basically free roam in our yard. We never really thought about predators or anything like that, and didn't have trouble in this area.


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 27, 2018)

Gave some pellets yesterday night .. only like .. seven maybe, and alfalfa hay. This morning.. still finding a clump of cecotropes next to the box.
Also pee not in the litterbox.. but still in "his territory", the other half of the pen which I don't sit in. What to do? :/ Not sure but the usage seems to go down as the box gets more dirty.. like on the third day. Cleaned out the box and I am throwing away a bunch of the hay :/ 

So this morning, I put in orchard grass. And he looks a me like, I don't want this, is there more hay coming? ALFALFA HAY? ..... 
 Do buns generally like Timothy Hay more than Orchard Grass?


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## Blue eyes (Apr 27, 2018)

Wow, lots happening at once. I'll start with that reminder that he's right about the age when hormones can activate. Remember, a young rabbit that seems to take to litter training can 'forget' that training with the onset of hormones. Those hormones can also cause excessive destructive chewing along with other behavioral changes. So I would not read too much into his not wanting attention. (Even once fixed, willingness for attention can be arbitrary and at the whim of bunny's current mood.) 

I'd consider getting him neutered asap in regards to the carpet chewing (among other things). The carpet chewing is not something you want him to get in the habit of doing. It could be more hormonal driven and could subside or stop altogether after being fixed. Is he only doing it in certain areas like corners? If it is just in specific areas, you can block that area somehow. A piece of tile could work. 

Hormones, then, could be largely responsible for litter training issues, excessive chewing, and any moodiness.

For the baseboard protection, I used tac nails (little skinny nails) to attach the boards. I only needed two nails per board. The nails are really thin (like a tac) so they don't leave a gaping nail hole when removed. Untreated white board is what I used. It can be bought in different lengths. If you need a specific length and don't like to cut it yourself, the hardware store will usually cut it for you.

Oh, and you were wondering if he was annoyed at being handled for cleaning... yes, rabbits can and will hold grudges! He'll forgive you in time. 

I'd certainly wait until he's neutered and settled before venturing to allow him outside the house. Before you do, though, I'd suggest considering the number of cautions listed *here*. It isn't necessary to allow him outside, but if you do, it should always be under constant supervision. There are birds of prey everywhere. That x-pen would be a good idea as well for outdoor time.


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## JBun (Apr 27, 2018)

I would just remove the pellets for now then. Even after that it may take several days for the excess cecals to clear up, as it could be the pellets are altering the microflora in the cecum to some extent, and that can take time to be reestablished back to normal.

He's still eating the alfalfa hay alright? I would just continue with that, with those few hours of only grass hay, and gradually increasing the grass hay only time while decreasing the alfalfa time. It might be worthwhile to try a different grass hay like timothy or maybe even oat hay if he's not taking a liking to the orchard. Rabbits usually like oat hay because of the oat grains in it, but they can sometimes cause messy poop so you would need to keep an eye out for that if you decide to try the oat hay. 

Also make sure to provide the salt lick if he doesn't have one. Pellets have the needed salt added to them, so when they aren't getting pellets they need to have another source to get the needed sodium in their diet.


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 27, 2018)

He starts to eat the grass hay when I leave lol. I just don't know if he's eating --enough -- When I first put it down he’s like standing on his hind legs as if to say ..... anything else? Ok I’ll have to get a salt lick. 

Unfortunately the pulling at the carpet isn’t confined to areas it’s very random.

There aren’t many experienced rabbit savvy vets in this area although one vet place said their doctors are all able to fix rabbits, but nothing else with rabbits. The other place is really expensive .. around $300 for boys and $400 for girls :O :O Is it worth it to drive hours to go elsewhere?


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 28, 2018)

Still waking up finding a clump of cecals, not as big though :/ Is it bad if there are any uneaten cecals or it's not so bad if it's not much? It's annoying to clean cause it dries and sticks, maybe I just need to put another box in that corner for now?

I didn’t see anything pasty this morning although some of the cecotropes are kind of flattened looking but I did see pasty in his box a few days ago. Do I need to be concerned about a bacterial imbalance?

//edit// sorry I hope it's okay that I'm treating this topic as a journal of sorts.

New box didn't really help.. either his bum is sitting over the corner (the corner box has a low side) and the pee is ending up next to the box.. or he's sitting next to the box peeing while munching hay.. haven't caught it in action yet. My hunch is that the litterbox is too dirty so he's going elsewhere (today is day 3) .. maybe I have to change it out every other day.

Well another new development.. Bun has started biting me. Normally when I let him out he just runs around but today, I was lying down and he decided to try everything to bite me as I was trying to move my limbs out of his way. Multiple times. What's going on? Hormones? Is he hungry because of his diet change? :/


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 29, 2018)

JBun said:


> When you start the pellets back up, maybe consider switching to oxbow or another high quality brand. It could be that the kaytee pellets are a problem for your bun. They have a lot of grains and other unusual ingredients that might have been the cause of the excess cecals. If your bun will almost be 6 mo. old when you transition back on, maybe just go straight for the adult pellets.
> 
> When feeding hay only, it's also a good idea to weigh your bun regularly to ensure he's still either gaining(from still growing) or stays at a healthy weight. Also good to run your hands over the back to make sure he doesn't feel bony from weight loss. Back should have muscles on each side of the spine and feel rounded.



Hi JBun, if I switch to Oxbow, how soon is it okay to switch and would I be feeding the type for adult rabbits, like timothy hay pellets?


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## lavendertealatte (Apr 30, 2018)

Seems he might have ISC... 
https://rabbit.org/intermittent-soft-cecotropes-in-rabbits/

It mainly happens at night. He’s still producing a lot and they looked squashed.  I wonder if I need to take him to the vet. This link also says it could take weeks to months to clear up! Eeks!!!


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## JBun (May 1, 2018)

Are the cecotropes coming out normally formed in clusters(before they get smooshed), semiformed where some is pasty and some is the normal looking cluster, or unformed where it's all pasty. ISC or cecal dysbiosis is when the cecals are semi or unformed and pasty, and this is usually from excess carbs in the diet. It usually only takes weeks to months to correct when it's been an ongoing problem for months to years, so it can take a good bit of time to reverse the imbalance that's occurred, which isn't something that applies to your buns situation. 

If the cecals are coming out in normally formed clusters(then getting smooshed afterwards) and being left uneaten, it can be from a diet too rich in protein or carbs, from a rabbit that is distracted(new place, nervous about something, or is a young rabbit), or from a health problem making it difficult for the rabbit to reach down and consume the cecals(overweight, arthritis, spinal issues, joint issues). 

My guess for your rabbit is that it's the pellets or the high protein alfalfa hay that is causing excess cecals. Once your bun is eating the grass hay better and is getting less alfalfa(less protein), the cecals should start clearing up. It can sometimes take several days for this to happen due to how the cecum works.

If it doesn't clear up, it could be a distraction issue, and if so it could be the young age or there could there could be something else distracting your bun from consuming his cecals normally.

The biting could be that he is feeling hungry. With your bun being close to full grown age, I would just start him on the oxbow adult pellets right away. They aren't as tasty as alfalfa based pellets, but if he really is feeling hungry then he may be more inclined to want to try them. I would gradually increase the amount over a week or two, so that I was feeding the recommended amount for his size at the end of that period(always keeping an eye out for mushy poop). While you are getting him onto the new pellets and restricting alfalfa hay, just keep a close eye to make sure he is eating a lot of the orchard hay(pile the size of his body twice a day at least, while he's not getting any pellets or not very much at the start). If he isn't, then that could explain the biting from being hungry. As he gradually is getting more pellets, his hay consumption will reduce to about a pile the size of his body per day.

It's really up to you whether you think he needs to go to the vet or not, but usually with this type of problem it's a dietary issue and not necessarily something the vet will do anything about. It usually takes the owner making the necessary dietary alterations to help get things back in balance. As long as there is no watery or pudding like diarrhea(where it's the fecals that are messy and would be an emergency), and the cecals are normally formed or semiformed, I would just continue working out the diet. But of course if you are concerned and feel that he needs to be seen by a vet, then you should do that.


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## lavendertealatte (May 1, 2018)

Thanks for the reply Jbun. So now I’m barely giving any alfalfa hay now compared to the orchard grass so that’s why I’m concerned I’m still seeing them.
They also don’t look like the grape clusters I see in pictures. They look like flat rounds and they’re usually in this spot where no box is. It only happens now at night so I can’t tell exactly what it looks like coming out of his butt. sometimes I do find stray flat rounds as well.


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## lavendertealatte (May 1, 2018)

I’m also finding small patches of pee. Could it be dribbling or he’s walking around after sitting in pee?


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## JBun (May 2, 2018)

The clusters can be broken up sometimes by the rabbit, and that is normal. It's when the individual capsules that make up the clusters, don't come out in capsules but come out looking like a lump of paste that it's a problem. This picture is what they look like semiformed where you can still see the evidence of capsules, but they are also somewhat pasty looking.
https://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/2012/09/20/palmbob/39fd2b.jpg

This picture is more unformed cectropes and pretty much completely pasty.
https://www.bunspace.com/static/photobucket/4727/DSCF9780.JPG

It sounds like you've got normally formed capsules where the clusters are broken up and some of the individual capsules are smooshed flat circles. If you want to post a clear close up picture of the cecals, I might be able to get a better idea of what's going on. 

He could be peeing over the edge. Trying a litter box with higher sides all the way round, would fix the problem if that's what he's doing.


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## lavendertealatte (May 2, 2018)

Hmm I didn't think it was that he's peeing over the edge cause I'm finding yellow spots in random areas but not puddles.

I'm hoping no cecals tomorrow.. gave like a 20:1 ratio of orchard grass to alfalfa hay today.. but if there are .. will take a close up. It's a little hard for me to tell what "pasty looking" is still. I did find something pasty looking in his litter box maybe about a week ago, but didn't pay too much attention cause it was in the box smeared with hay.


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## JBun (May 2, 2018)

He could be urine spraying. He's about the right age for those hormones to be coming in and start that kind of thing, marking territory. One major reason for getting boy buns neutered. I know it drove me nuts.

The other possibility when finding dribbling urine is UTI, but usually with that they will have urine soaked fur on the inside of the back legs as well. And it's not as likely for a bun his age.


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## lavendertealatte (May 2, 2018)

I hope he hasn't been urine spraying on my carpet without me knowing it.. I let him out in the evening and watch him, and the only way I can tell if he's peeing is if he stops moving and then I start to suspect. Which he did the first time I let him out but hasn't since... But how does spraying work? hmm I think he knows the outside area is not his territory so hopefully he's not spraying.


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## lavendertealatte (May 2, 2018)

Better today. It seems like no matter where I put the box though he purposely wants to put the cecotropes where there is no box. I have two and thinking of getting a third at this rate.

Just noticed bunny's feet were totally pee stained.. so he was trekking fresh pee all over the pen


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## lavendertealatte (May 2, 2018)

So I got very excited and set up the xpen attached to bun's pen today.. he had been doing great .. no accidents outside of his pen when there was no xpen.. but today.. with xpen set up, he peed on the fleece blanket. noooooooo. tried to stick him back into the litter box but it was too late. fleece blanket in the wash and bunny back inside.


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## Blue eyes (May 2, 2018)

Neuter, neuter.


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## lavendertealatte (May 3, 2018)

I probably need to wait til the 6 month mark right? He isn’t showing yet from what I can see.

Good news. Didn’t see excess cecotropes this morning finally and he is eating his grass although still begs for the alfalfa.


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## JBun (May 3, 2018)

That's good to hear. Get used to the begging. It's what bunnies do best 

If you aren't seeing his testicles descending yet, then yes you will need to wait til they do before he can get neutered. Unless 'he' is possibly a 'she'. Have you been able to definitely verify that he's a boy?


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## lavendertealatte (May 3, 2018)

Lol nope haven’t confirmed yet. He hates being flipped over .. I tried to put him in my lap to check and both times I did it I couldn’t find any tacos or donuts in the time I had.... just the poop hole. How do you all do it?

Also no binkies recently ;/


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## lavendertealatte (May 4, 2018)

Bunster checking out the new xpen area. "Can I jump over this thing?"


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## lavendertealatte (May 4, 2018)

ok I just looked at pics of holland lops..
https://truluvrabbitry.com/2009/01/01/how-does-a-8-weeks-old-look-like/


I don't think the age I was given is accurate... he doesn't look 3-4 months old at all .... he looks much smaller! Aiyah.. T_T O_O This is him when I first got him.. and another picture of him now 3 weeks later. How old do you guys think? Both me and my husband feel like he looked like the six week old photos we are seeing on the internet. I just weighed him he is 8.5 Ounces. My friend who has a holland lop agreed that he looks like a baby!


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## lavendertealatte (May 7, 2018)

Found pee on the wall today.. couldn't stand it anymore so finally switched to a different box with higher sides all around.


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## Blue eyes (May 7, 2018)

New litter box looks great! I think you will find it easy to maintain as well.


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## lavendertealatte (May 7, 2018)

Just went to the feed store and got wood pellets and they were different from the previous one! I asked the guy and he said they were out of the horse bedding wood pellets which I was probably looking for ... those are the same except they have an odor reducer so people use that for horse bedding! He said the odor reducer was zytol???... something with a “z”. I wonder if it’s safe?? Is it the same as what is recommended?


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## Blue eyes (May 7, 2018)

ooohh... I don't know anything about that. If in doubt, get the kind without. The plain pellets work just fine without anything added. I don't think I'd trust it until you know for sure.

(Horses aren't keeping their noses so close to the bedding like rabbits.)


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## lavendertealatte (May 7, 2018)

found it I think .. it is called "zeolite" .. 
this one has it. http://bmfp.com/product/dry-den-animal-bedding-zeolites/


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## JBun (May 7, 2018)

Dry Den? I've used that before for my rabbits.

For his age, the picture when you first got him, he looks about 6 weeks old to me. But if he was a runt, that could make him look younger than he is.

For determining sex.
https://rabbit.org/how-to-determine-a-rabbits-sex/
http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/educat...rabbit-care-articles/how-to-sex-your-rabbits/


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## lavendertealatte (May 7, 2018)

I think if I poke anywhere down there Bunbun will freak out....

So I found a weird bump while trying to sex Bunster.  I thought it initially was a dreadlock but it's weird... it looks kind of patchy and dark compared to the rest of his stomach area and he didn't really let me touch it but it was kind of hard. 

I also gave him about 10 or so pellets yesterday and he was going crazy for them, biting my hands cause he thought I had more :/ Kind of worried me. I weighed him again.. he's about the same weight I think if not a little less actually. It's hard to get him to stay put on the scale. This morning there were a few cecotropes in their usual area.. I don't know why he doesn't deposit them in the box. I didn't touch them and then I came back an hour later and it seemed like some were gone.. or maybe I was just seeing things. I wonder if he's having trouble eating them straight out of his bum so that's why they are there? He is a bit clumsy but I thought it was just cause he was a baby. He will sometimes fall over when he's grooming himself or periscoping.


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## lavendertealatte (May 9, 2018)

So it's Tuesday night, and the cecotropes are gone! I wonder did he eat them? But I thought they are supposed to dry out and become inedible pretty fast. So now I'm thinking what if the cecotropes weren't excess this whole time and he just couldn't eat them straight out of his bum so he was putting them outside his box to eat later? O___o


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## JBun (May 9, 2018)

How long did he leave them siting out before they disappeared? They should become inedible after sitting out for a while. Normal behavior would be eating them straight as they come out, or soon after if left on the floor.


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## lavendertealatte (May 10, 2018)

Not sure actually. I saw none today though, and I gave him pellets yesterday ^_^ 

New problem.. Bunster keeps biting me. At first it was just nips but today he bit my pants and it was pretty hard! X_X What's going on.. I think from his size he's 8 weeks-ish now so it shouldn't be hormones..... I think it was cause I have been hand feeding him pellets.. (trying to do clicker training to get him to get onto the scale)... so that's his way of trying to get me to give him more? He goes absolutely crazy for pellets. Instead of tolerating petting he will just try to bite at my hand as if there is food but even if there is no food.. he will bite if I leave my hand there. At first it was just tiny nips, but then he bit my pants kind of hard! If I'm sitting in the xpen I'm practically running away from him.. at least my hands are. He doesn't do it to my husband. I say "Eep!" each time he does it.. but doesn't seem to be helping at all. I am pretty sure it started with the clicking training...  Is there a way for me to keep doing the clicker training but have him not constantly searching my hands (and pants, apparently? idk) for food?

He doesn't seem fond of the X-Pen attached to the pen being a substitute for the whole den area unfortunately.. even though it's more space than his pen, he still tries to stick his head through the bars. And he's peed a few times in the x-pen area.. but only small pees  I found a little tiny bit of pee on the new cardboard box I put in.. claiming the box or just an accident?


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## lavendertealatte (May 19, 2018)

No more uneaten cecotropes, going on one week, and I've been feeding pellets, a small amount each day, and a small amount of alfalfa hay, and then the rest orchard grass and timothy hay. There were little colored treat things in the Kaytee pellet bag and I have been leaving those out, in case they were the problem.  

I've been weighing him (using pellets to lead him to the scale) but it's pretty hard to get any sort of consistent number. How much weight should he be gaining each week though? I'm paranoid that he isn't getting enough protein since he is so very excited when the pellets show up.


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## lavendertealatte (May 26, 2018)

We were doing so well with some pellets and cecotropes were gone, but today I woke up to find some again! So.. back to no pellets.

Bunster has also developed a habit of digging and scratching when he's in the x-pen area (which has a sheet as the flooring). I have phonebook...cardboard..but nope..


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## JBun (May 26, 2018)

What pellets are you using now? Are you trying a different brand/type or just the same ones you started out with(sorry I can't keep track of these things)?

Have you tried giving him a fleece blanket? A lot of buns like to dig on and rearrange blankets to their liking. That might be why he's trying to dig on the sheet. I even know of buns that like to make a tunnel with them and get under it. If you haven't tried it yet, that might be an activity your bun will like. Only thing to be cautions of is loose strings(can get wrapped around a foot) and large holes(head or foot stuck in). So keep any loose strings clipped and replace if any large holes get created.


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## lavendertealatte (May 26, 2018)

hey Jbun, They are the same Kaytee ones, but without the colored bits so just the pellets. Thought it was going okay but we lasted about a week. Tons of cecotropes again today. 

Yeah he has a fleece blanket in the xpen area and he doesn't do too much with it. He moves around the pen and tries to dig and bite at everything (i've got cardboard boxes, a phone book, blanket) but nothing holds his attention for that long.


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## JBun (May 26, 2018)

It might be worth trying a different pellet like oxbow adult. Those kaytee pellets have a lot of additional ingredients that oxbow doesn't have, and one of those ingredients might be what's causing the cecotrope problems. It might just be easier to start him on the adult pellets so you don't have to mess with having to transition him off of the juvenile to the adult. Plus the adult pellet doesn't have alfalfa in it in case that's what's causing the problems.

Finding a pellet that he can tolerate might also calm him down some. He might just be really hungry and that's what's causing some of these behaviors. Baby buns grow really fast and they need a lot of food to keep up with the growth. It's hard for them to be getting enough food by just eating grass hay because it's lower in nutrients and takes longer to eat. Pellets are more condensed and nutrient rich, so it fills them up faster.


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## lavendertealatte (May 27, 2018)

Thanks JBun. I bought oxbow adult -- do I need to transition and only give him a small amount to start with and gradually increase?


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## JBun (May 27, 2018)

I would gradually increase, at least over a weeks time, maybe even two. I've even gone as long as 4 weeks for a really slow transition for a particularly sensitive bun. Two weeks is safer than one, but I have done less than a week with a rabbit that wouldn't eat hay and I had no choice but to hurry and get him on the new pellets. I just keep a close eye on their poop for any signs of it going mushy or the fecal balls becoming really small in size. Also any signs of discomfort after eating pellets.


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## lavendertealatte (May 27, 2018)

How much do you think I should give?


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## Meredith Tervo (May 27, 2018)

So I’m a new bunny owner too...sadly I have to pick one to go back to my moms house because I thought I had selected two females I don’t know which to keep and can’t afford to have them both fixed right now Also I bought an outdoor rabbit hutch that is perfect for two kits but man have they blossomed in just the past week!! Any tips on how to choose??? *Ugh* also any newbie tips would be greatly appreciated!!! I’ve discovered I need to put something on the floor to cover the mesh...what is something I can use temporarily until I can size a piece of plywood? And until I can get something inside setup is there anything I should be aware of while they/he/she are kept outside? And last what I can think to ask is, what is best way to store my 50lb Timothy bale?? Didn’t realize it could get moldy!! It’s in my garage at the moment but it is really humid here and there are lots of water bugs and cave crickets in the garage at all times!! Any suggestions would be oh so ever helpful!!


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## Blue eyes (May 27, 2018)

@ Meredith, I suggest you start a new thread and just copy/paste your question on that new thread. That way you will get more answers and answers specific to your questions. 

In the meantime, you can put a piece of ceramic or porcelein tile as a resting area for the rabbits on top of the mesh. It is cool and gets them off the mesh. You can buy a single tile at any hardware store. Depending on your hutch, you can get whatever will fit through the hutch opening -- 12"x12" or 14" x 14" or even 16" x16."

For newbie tips, you can check *here* (my website). 

If you feel better about keeping hay out of the garage and indoors, you can get a plastic storage tub and drill some holes in it for aeration. Assuming you have A/C inside, that will help keep humidity down as well. For indoor storage of hay, I use a 13 gallon kitchen trash can. But the storage totes can work as well if air holes are drilled.


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## Meredith Tervo (May 27, 2018)

Blue eyes said:


> @ Meredith, I suggest you start a new thread and just copy/paste your question on that new thread. That way you will get more answers and answers specific to your questions.
> 
> In the meantime, you can put a piece of ceramic or porcelein tile as a resting area for the rabbits on top of the mesh. It is cool and gets them off the mesh. You can buy a single tile at any hardware store. Depending on your hutch, you can get whatever will fit through the hutch opening -- 12"x12" or 14" x 14" or even 16" x16."
> 
> ...


Thank you for your answers! Very helpful!! Feeling silly because I can’t seem to figure out where to start a new thread on this website lol Which page/heading do I go to to do so? My hay bale came in a thick green tarp-like wrapping, is it ok to keep it wrapped? And would you happen to know how long the bale will keep and will I be able to recognize if it happens to mold by smell or what not? I may find those answers on your website so headed there now to check it out...thanks again!


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## Blue eyes (May 27, 2018)

To start a new thread, click first on "FORUMS" at the very top of the page. That will show you all of the different topics to choose from. Click on the one that fits your topic to bring you to that section. (There are choices like nutrition or housing or behavior.)

Once there, you will see a green button on the right half of the page that states "Post New Thread"
Click that and you're set to go.


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## JBun (May 29, 2018)

lavendertealatte said:


> How much do you think I should give?



Sorry, a little late answering. I would start off with maybe 1/4 tsp twice a day for 2 days, then I would increase to half tsp., then each day I would increase half tsp more twice a day. If you feel that's too much too fast, stick with increasing 1/4 tsp twice a day, each day.


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## lavendertealatte (May 30, 2018)

I may have increased too fast .. I did see a lot of tiny poops but still regular poops.. what does that mean?

Today, cecotropes again T_T


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## lavendertealatte (May 30, 2018)

Also bunster plants the cecotropes on the opposite end of the pen and they are always on the floor, not in the litter box. Does anyone know why?


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## Kita channel (May 30, 2018)

lavendertealatte said:


> bunbun also eats lots of hay but doesn't seem to be making much dent in the pellets...
> 
> also if you buy a bale of hay where do you typically store it? I was thinking garage but I saw a huge roach in there the other day so now I'm hesitant >__<


Maybe get a large storage container which you can get from alot of stores for cheap and store the hay in there which will also help keep it fresher for longer


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## LacyH1011 (May 31, 2018)

lavendertealatte said:


> Also bunster plants the cecotropes on the opposite end of the pen and they are always on the floor, not in the litter box. Does anyone know why?


My 8 week old babies are also letting their cecotropes land on the floor around their run instead of reingesting as they're supposed to, or putting into the litter box. My only thought is they haven't figured out that part yet?


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## lavendertealatte (Jul 21, 2018)

so I ended up storing my hay in the den where Bun is. Looks ugly, but oh well, he's taken over the room anyway.

Lacy how are your buns doing?

Bunster should be around 4-5 months old now. We're noticing no testicles dropping so he might be a she. Also it seems that his personality is becoming more skittish. He startles when my husband walks through the den in the morning. :/ Could this be a hormone thing? I hope it doesn't become permanent.


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## Blue eyes (Jul 21, 2018)

LacyH1011 said:


> My 8 week old babies are also letting their cecotropes land on the floor around their run instead of reingesting as they're supposed to, or putting into the litter box. My only thought is they haven't figured out that part yet?



8 weeks is still very young. It can take them some time to figure out their cecotropes.


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## lavendertealatte (Jul 25, 2018)

so Bunster had his/her first legit accident since being potty trained... about 4-5 months old now. Aghhh was hoping we'd get through this period without that. Luckily it was in her cage area and not the carpet, but does this mean we need to do re-training??? It was RIGHT next to the litter box. -____- I cleaned out the box today, in case that was the problem..


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## Blue eyes (Jul 25, 2018)

It isn't unusual for a formerly potty trained rabbit to "forget" that training with the onset of hormones. I don't see any point to trying to train him/her until after being fixed. Fixed rabbits train themselves (just need the right set up).


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## Sophia (Jul 26, 2018)

lavendertealatte said:


> Bunbun is sitting like a loaf with his ears pressed down .. is he mad?  cause i've cleaned up his poops and stuck them in the box with him?


What breed is he he could be a lop and that would be the same as some of mine stick their ears up when they are little but then over time keep their ears down for longer periods of time until they keep them down all the time.


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