# Hind legs not working



## Laura93F (Mar 2, 2015)

Hello all,

I'm new to this site so hope I've posted this in the right place but have had my two bunnies for many years. My one bunny Barney is coming up to 7 years old, however his back legs have recently been bad, starting off with him running around but falling to the right side to him now struggling to get around.

I have been to the vets who said his legs all seem to be in working order bone wise, but may have a parasite. He gave me metacam to give him but after reading online I started giving him panacur and he has been on that for 2 weeks now. The metacam stopped about a week ago as I ran out.

He is usually an outside bunny but have brought him inside to keep him warm due to his lack of movement. 

He is eating and drinking fine, just seems to have this hind leg problem &#128532;

How long does panacur take to work if it is a parasite? Does anybody have any suggestions please?

Thank you


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## JBun (Mar 2, 2015)

E. cuniculi is certainly a possibility. It can vary how long it takes before you see improvement once treatment with panacur and metacam is started. You should certainly be seeing some improvement by 2-3 weeks though. Usually treatment is for at least 4 weeks, but may even be needed for up to 2 months depending on the vets findings and signs of improvement, but that is if this is the cause and other possible causes have been ruled out. Did your vet do an e. cuniculi blood titer or a blood panel?
http://www.gwexotics.com/wccms-resources/a/5/0/e/77554b90-a660-11e0-a685-0050568626ea.pdf
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/paresis.html
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?A=490

Were xrays taken to rule out spinal trauma or spondylosis/arthritis? Your bun is at the age where spondylosis/arthritis can set in, and if this is the cause, your bun may need to be on long term metacam to help alleviate symptoms Adequan injections and glucosamine can also help with arthritis issues.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Bone_diseases/Osteo/arthritis.htm

The fact that the vet didn't prescribe panacur when e. cuniculi was suspected, makes me think that your vet isn't very rabbit savvy. Panacur is the main medication used to treat EC, and metacam, though necessary as well, is used to treat inflammation. It's also possible that your vet wasn't prescribing a high enough dose of metacam, and that may be why you didn't see any improvement. I personally would be looking for a more experienced rabbit vet.
http://rabbit.org/vet-listings/
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/forumdisplay.php?f=21


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## Laura93F (Mar 3, 2015)

Thank you for the reply! 

No X-rays or blood was taken from my bun when we went to the vets. The vet did an examination of his legs and said that he didn't think there was any fracture or that they weren't working correctly structural wise. However he did say that obviously some of the positions my bun let him put his legs in were obviously not right as rabbits would usually always bring their legs back to their original position.

How do I go about find a vet that is experienced in rabbits?

My rabbit weighs 2.5kg and was given 7kg (on the syringe) worth of metacam daily and then I started up panacur about a week later.

I just don't want to give up on him as he seems to be eating and drinking absolutely fine, it's just his movement issue!


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## JBun (Mar 3, 2015)

If you want to list a general location, someone might be able to recommend a rabbit vet for your area.

It's good you've brought him in as he is likely to need more extensive care. You will also want to make sure he is urinating alright, as this can sometimes be a problem for buns with hind leg problems. Also make sure he isn't getting urine soaked fur, as this will lead to urine scald.

That still may be too low of a dose of metacam for your rabbit. I think that dosage is around 0.75mg if you were giving the 1.5mg/ml metacam. Normal dosage range for a rabbit would be 0.3-0.6mg/kg, once or twice daily. So twice daily of the 7.5kg dog metacam, would have been a more appropriate dose for a rabbit. I would suspect once you have seen a new vet, that they will put your bun back on metacam, and hopefully at the correct dose with a twice daily dosing. If this is arthritis, the correct dosing of metacam can make a world of difference to your bun. Though of course this will depend on getting a second opinion, and what the new vet finds as the cause.


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## Laura93F (Mar 3, 2015)

Thank you, I live in the stourbridge area, West Midlands. The postcode is DY9 is anyone could recommend a vet that would be great!

He was on the metacam for dogs but like I said he was only on 7kg once a day. 

He is getting a wet bum but I'm washing it off daily and as soon as I can. It's a bit awkward at the moment as he is in his carry cage as I had no indoor cage. I am picking an indoor cage up today so will be able to put sawdust etc in to hopefully help soak up some of the urine.

I think I will take him to a different vet who hopefully has a bit more experience and see what they say! Fingers crossed they can help him a bit more.


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## JBun (Mar 3, 2015)

You are fortunate living in the UK, as you have some of the best rabbit vets around. Manor Vets in Edgbaston, vet Marie Kubiak, has a reputation for being quite a good rabbit vet. Though I will look some more to see if there is one a bit closer to you. You may also be able to talk to your current vet and ask for a specialist referral to see what name you get. If you have insurance on your bun, I'm not sure how it would work for you changing vets. You may need to get a referral from your current vet, or may need to change vets completely.
http://www.manorvets.co.uk/edgbaston/

I would recommend getting some vet bed for your bun to lay on instead. Shavings can be quite dusty for a rabbit to be breathing in. Vet bed is a common bedding used for disabled rabbits, to help keep them clean. It helps drain the urine away from their body. When you see the new vet, getting the bum shaved would probably be a good idea as well. It will help make keeping the area clean easier, and you will be able to apply a protective cream if needed. Here are some other tips for caring for a disabled bun.
http://mohrs.org/index.php?id=paralysis
http://www.disabledrabbits.com/baths--cleaning.html
http://www.specialbunny.org/special-needs-housing/
http://www.catsandrabbitsandmore.com/disabled_rabbits

Best of luck at the new vets, and I would love to hear updates on how it goes and how your bun is doing.


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## Laura93F (Mar 3, 2015)

Thank you very much for your help!

Could I ask what is vet bed? Is it a type of sawdust or is it like a mat?

Also, I have spoken to the orginial vet about the metacam dose and have asked for some more on prescription until I find another vet. She said that I have to be careful with giving him metacam over a long period as it can affect his kidneys? She has told me this based on the 7kg dose once a day, so will it be safe to give twice a day as I know that's what you recommended


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## JBun (Mar 3, 2015)

This is vet bed. I think you can buy it at pets at home, or buy from several online sites.
http://www.vetuk.co.uk/dog-beds-pet-life-vet-bed-c-628_199_940

It's not unusual for metacam to be prescribed long term for various health issues. I know of several rabbit owners who's vets have prescribed it for many years with no ill effects. I have also read of a well known rabbit specialist stating that she hasn't seen evidence of it damaging the kidneys in rabbits. Though it would still be a good idea to have a blood test done to ensure your rabbits kidneys are functioning normally. Unlike cats and dogs, rabbits seem to tolerate metacam quite well, but do need higher and more frequent doses because of their fast metabolism. But, I am in no way suggesting you give more than the amount your vet prescribed. 

From the dosage information you gave, if I have figured it out right then your bun is at the very lowest recommended amount. If you feel your bun should be getting a higher dose, you either need to ask your current vet about changing the dose, or get a referral to or second opinion from a new vet and see if they recommend a higher dose. Chances are that if you see one of the rabbit specialists or savvy vets I've listed, that it's likely they will prescribe a higher dose if it is needed and after a blood test has been done, as they are more experienced with treating rabbits and have more experience with the doses that are needed to effectively treat illness. Your vet could even consult with one of these specialists to get the correct treatment for your rabbit if going to a new vet would be too difficult. You have *numerous *rabbit specialists in your country, that your vet could consult with, including Frances Harcourt Brown, one of the best rabbit specialists there is. These are just a few rabbit specialists. There are several others I could post links to as well. Though your bun will likely need to have xrays and blood tests done prior to a consult, so the consulting vet will have all needed information.
http://www.crablanevets.co.uk/our-practice/veterinary-surgeons/
http://www.highcroftvet.co.uk/staff-gallery/richard-saunders
http://www.cheshirepet.co.uk/?team-member=molly-varga

Molly Varga is a very good rabbit specialist in Holmes Chapel. There is also Simon Maddock in Dunston who is a rabbit savvy vet, that I have read good things about from other rabbit owners. So you have a lot of options for either your vet consulting a specialist, or if you can drive and your bun can handle travel without stressing too much, then you have several excellent vets within 1 1/2 hours distance. You can also contact the rwaf for a rabbit vet recommendation if you are needing something closer to you. If you do see a new vet, just make sure that all your rabbits information is sent over prior to your appointment.
http://www.catandrabbit.co.uk/meet_the_team.html
http://www.rabbitwelfare.co.uk/resources/index.php?section=veterinary.html

Here are some vet based links you can read through, that supports the information I have relayed concerning metacam.


*Note: * based on a study in New Zealand White rabbits, "_Rabbits may require a dose exceeding 0.3 mg/kg given once daily to achieve optimal plasma levels of meloxicam over a 24-h interval._" (J495.56.w1)
0.3 - 0.6 mg/kg subcutaneously or orally every 24 hours. "_studies have shown that rabbits may require a dose exceeding 0.3 mg/kg every 24 hours to achieve optimal plasma levels of meloxicam over a 24-hour interval and doses of 1.5 mg/kg subcutaneously or orally are well tolerated for 5 days." _(B546)
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Meloxicam.htm

"Meloxicam Up to 1.0 mg/kg twice daily"
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/Osteoarthritis_rabbits.htm

I don't know whether or not metacam may be helpful or not, it will depend on what the cause of the hind limb weakness is. If it is caused by EC or arthritis, then there is a good chance that metacam will be helpful if the correct amount is given. If this is caused by spinal damage and your bun has complete paralysis, then it's quite possible the damage is permanent, and giving metacam isn't likely to have an effect. If your bun still has some function in the back legs, then there is still hope that the condition can be reversed, or at least improved with the appropriate treatment. Though, even with permanent paralysis, if your bun adjusts well to the change, he can still have a good quality of life. Has your bun lost complete use of his back legs or just diminished use? Can he still hop around at all?

If you feel that your vet hasn't investigated the cause thoroughly and that it should be looked into more, than seeing a specialist, or at least a good rabbit vet, would be my next step. I don't know if your vet is a decent rabbit vet or not. I'm just basing my opinion on the information you have relayed regarding the treatment your rabbit received. If a good rabbit vet had suspected EC as the cause of the hind limb weakness, normally panacur and metacam would have been prescribed, and probably an antibiotic as well to cover the possibility of infection. This is the common treatment for this. If your vet didn't prescribe the panacur, you could ask why. Maybe there is a good reason your vet didn't. I would also want to know how arthritis and spinal damage was ruled out as a cause, or if not, then why wasn't it investigated as a cause as well. Maybe your vet did rule these out as a possibility, though I'm not sure how when no xrays were done.


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## missyscove (Mar 3, 2015)

Did you see any improvement on the metacam? I agree with the advice to either revisit your vet or get a second opinion. 
In the meantime, make sure your rabbit has plenty of traction by providing mats or blankets on top of any slick flooring. Something like vet bed or a sherpa material may help to wick away urine. If he's rolling at all, be sure to pad the sides of his enclosure as well.


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## Laura93F (Mar 4, 2015)

Barney seems a lot better since giving him his metacam. He is able to stand more than constantly lying on his side and has eaten more of his food. This is on just the once a day 7kg so when I go and see the vet I'm hoping if he ups it he may improve even more. Fingers crossed this is the way forward!!


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## Lokin4AReason (Mar 5, 2015)

best of luck ..


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## Laura93F (Mar 15, 2015)

Hello again,

I just wanted some advice. Barney is still on the Metacam and panacur, however 28 days will be up as of tomorrow so should I stop the panacur and just stick to the metacam. He seems better in himself and moving around a lot more although he is not 100% with his hind legs still


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## Fred (Apr 28, 2015)

Hi. How is Barney doing? Really hope the Panacur worked for him.

Got a similar problem with my 6yo (hind leg weakness) who is on day 16 of Panacur treatment. However he is still having the same type of episodes he had before we started Panacur and I'm wondering how long it takes for the Panacur to work.


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## Laura93F (Apr 29, 2015)

Hello

Barney is still pretty much the same... The panacur didn't really do anything for him, but started metacam for a while and he seemed to slightly improve. He is currently off that at the moment as they say it's not good for their kidneys so wanted to see how much it actually helps him.

He was wetting himself a lot before which he is no longer doing but his mobility is limited although he still manages to get around the garden albeit very wobbly!

He is still a happy bun and doesn't appear to be in pain.

I really hope the panacur works for your bun. Does he have much mobility at all?


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## Fred (Apr 30, 2015)

Glad to hear Barney is a bit better - really hope he continues to improve.

My chap is currently in the vets having an x-ray, the vet says she thinks it's something to do with the spine, as he doesn't have much reflex in his back legs (although he can generally move around ok, just quite gingerly and sometimes losing control of the back legs, although not always). So we're currently waiting to see what the prognosis is. He will definitely finish the Panacur course, just in case it's EC (I'm hoping it's EC related but it's looking more unlikely that it is). And she is going to prescribe Metacam to help with any inflammation. As with your one, he doesn't appear to be in pain.

It seems very unfair for rabbits to have to go through this. Here's hoping for recovery for both of ours.


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## Laura93F (May 1, 2015)

How did you get on with the X-rays?! 

Your bunny sounds exactly the same as mine. His legs seem to be fine as he will kick out when holding him etc but his back end of his spine seems to lean to the one side.

I'd definately stick to the panacur and try the metacam! I saw a difference in my bun at the start!

Hope he gets better soon and please do let me know if you have any luck in findings!


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## JBun (May 1, 2015)

Laura93F said:


> Hello
> 
> Barney is still pretty much the same... The panacur didn't really do anything for him, but started metacam for a while and he seemed to slightly improve. He is currently off that at the moment as they say it's not good for their kidneys so wanted to see how much it actually helps him.



Based on your rabbits possible improvement on metacam, I would suspect that the hind leg weakness your rabbit is experiencing may be due to arthritis or spondylosis. There are rabbits with these conditions that have improved when put on long term metacam treatment. Did you end up going to a different vet for a second opinion?

I've read of many rabbits being on long term metacam without developing any kidney issues from it. Some were even on it for several years. I also read a comment from a vet specialist in your country, that she hasn't seen evidence of it affecting kidney function either. If you are concerned about it affecting kidney function you could get a blood test done to make sure your buns kidneys are functioning normally before starting the metacam again. If you feel that giving daily metacam will help your bun and improve his function and life, then that is certainly something worth looking into.


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## Fred (May 1, 2015)

Laura93F said:


> How did you get on with the X-rays?!
> 
> Your bunny sounds exactly the same as mine. His legs seem to be fine as he will kick out when holding him etc but his back end of his spine seems to lean to the one side.
> 
> ...



The X-rays show that he does have spondylosis in the spine and a bit of arthritis in his back legs. The vet put him on metacam and we're continuing the course of Panacur to the end. The metacam seems to have provided some improvement already (unless that's just my wishful thinking) so we're hopeful he might continue to improve. He has had a couple of mini episodes today where his back foot slips out from under him but he has managed to correct himself. Fingers crossed for the future.


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## Laura93F (May 2, 2015)

I'm glad the metacam seems to be working. Hopefully your bun will be more comfortable getting around now that he is on that.

Did the vet say anything about using metacam in the long run? May I also ask what doseage you have been told to use with the metacam?


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## Fred (May 2, 2015)

He does seem to be happier on the metacam. He's on 0.4ml per day at the moment (he's 6kg in weight). We're back at the vets in 10 days time so we'll review the metacam treatment then. I'll let you know what the vet says.


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## Laura93F (May 3, 2015)

That's really good 

Is the metacam the one for cats or dogs? I was given a syringe which had units in kg on it and was told to give 7kg of metacam (according to the syringe) 

I'm just curious as to whether this is a similar amount to yours as I was told that it wasn't a lot to be giving for my bun!


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## Fred (May 5, 2015)

It's the one for dogs. The vet said to use 0.4ml each day (it's 40 on the plastic syringe she gave us). I think she said it's on the low side dosage-wise but I'm not completely sure of that. It's the first time I have used metacam so I'm not very knowledgeable about it.


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## Fred (May 11, 2015)

Further update: he's been on 0.4ml metacam once a day for 2 weeks but in the last few days he has become a bit worse, with lack of control of one of his hind legs. After a vet visit today he's now on 0.4ml metacam twice a day. According to the vet, this is still a relatively low dose for his size and she says he could tolerate 2ml a day. But we're taking it gradually and only increasing his dose according to his needs. Looks like he'll be on metacam indefinitely, unfortunately.


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## Laura93F (May 12, 2015)

I'm really sorry to hear that he has got slightly worse :-( I'm glad that your vet is being really helpful towards the situation though!

I've beven thinking about putting my bun back onto metacam to see if it will help him again. He has been off it for a good few months now as I wanted to get it out of his system due to it supposedly being bad for their kidneys. However sometimes I think we have to go with what's best for them and I think I may try again!


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## Fred (May 14, 2015)

I was also worried about the side effects of metacam but the alternative is a bunny with no hind leg control, it seemed like the right thing to do...if it works. 

We are now up to 0.6ml of dog metacam twice a day - the 0.4ml twice a day didn't seem to make much difference to his problem but the 0.6ml seems to have done the trick - he's much more stable now but it's only been 24 hours of the higher dose so we'll have to wait and see. I'd like to think we can reduce the dose over time and hopefully stop at some stage but that's probably not going to happen. If he remains stable like this I'll be happy. 

Hope all goes well with your little one, they are so precious.


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