# Fish Advice



## cassnessxox (Jan 6, 2013)

So I have noticed that quite a few on the forum keep fish. I have been looking all over the internet for answers but not a site seems to be able to tell it to me straight. 

I have recently acquired a 74L glass fish tank (I think about 20 gallons). I have no idea what kind of fish or how many of them I can keep in it! I don't have a particular fish in mind which is the problem. All the sites say 'pick a fish you like, research it, then buy a tank to suit it' but I already have a tank and aren't fussy as to what fish I keep!

I have a heater and a filter though I'm not sure it's strong enough as it came with the tank we got off a friend. 

Also, would this tank be large enough to keep a turtle? An Oblong Turtle in particular as it's the only kind available here in Western Australia. I can't even find a straight answer for that one :dunno


----------



## cassnessxox (Jan 6, 2013)

Would a single male Siamese Fighting Fish be ok in a tank that large? Provided I give him places to hide?
Also, can Neon Tetras be housed with fighting fish? I assumed they would get eaten but I researched it anyway. Some people say there has been aggression, others have said they had no problems. I just thought the tank would be quite empty with only one small fish and I have always liked tetras but again the tank would be quite empty with only a few tetras in it.


----------



## Toady (Jan 6, 2013)

You could probably put a dozen tetras or so in there and probably some other fish like danios or gouramis into there with no real worries, we've had all three in a 2 ft tank with no fights, plus some weeds for hiding if needed. I wouldn't really put a betta (siamese fighting fish) in there with tetras cause the tetras are known for biting at the betta's fins. Is it a 2 or 3 foot long tank and what kind of filter and heater did you get with it?


----------



## cassnessxox (Jan 6, 2013)

It's 76cm x 30cm and 38cm deep, so like 2.5 foot
The heater says Vitapet 75W Aquarium Water Heater, the filter says Clear free on it but that's all, it didn't come in a box

So would a siamese by itself be ok?


----------



## fuzz16 (Jan 6, 2013)

you could do a solo betta with a few flashy fish. i like keeping livebearers in tanks bc if the fry arnt eaten as live food (which is really healthy for the fish) then you get to see little guys grow up.

but put some plants in there and a single betta with some snails, or even get some cherry shrimp (they breed easy ad fun to watch) you would be fine

heaters are needed depending on fish type, most will need an average temp of 76-78ish


----------



## cassnessxox (Jan 7, 2013)

Ooo both those ideas sound good, I'll just have to see what I can find at the Aquarium.
I know bettas are solitary fish but I would feel bad having it all alone in such a big space. I have seen how sad they look in the tiny tanks at the pet shop and would love to see one swimming around and enjoying the space.


----------



## fuzz16 (Jan 7, 2013)

some are solitary, they dont do well kept with other males. you can keep femals together, though. also, any fish you add in shouldnt have big pretty fins, like male guppys, because the betta may nip at them  im a platy fan though all the way. but for sure go planted, even minimal lighting can support water wisteria and java moss. will get a pic later of my tank to show you..sadly its too high flow for a betta, even the girls couldnt handle it


----------



## whitelop (Jan 7, 2013)

We used to have one male betta and like 3 females all together in a tank about the size of yours. They did pretty well, but the females did gang up on the male and nip his fins off. They grew back and the females stopped nipping him. We also put the females in with our communal tank and they did very well. 
Me personally, I love betta's. They're one of my favorite fish. They're so quiet and they're very responsive to their owners. I had one male crowntail betta that lived in my kitchen in a one gallon tank and that fish was amazing! He would come to the tank when I walked up to him, he would follow my fingers around the sides of the tank, he would let me pet him. He was a total sweetie. I did love that fish. 
Sorry for rambling, it just brought me back to a lovely fish!


----------



## cassnessxox (Jan 8, 2013)

With plants do you just need lots of rocks or do you need sand or something? The tank is sort of near a shaded window but the light should be ok

I can't wait to pick out a pretty fishy ^_^ We have a biiiig pet shop a little while away but it's really great for fish and reptiles. They have a few different really flashy bettas, I think they have some females there to


----------



## Acacia-Berry (Jan 8, 2013)

With a tank that size you could put multiple female bettas in there. It's called a sorority, it works best if ALL the bettas are put in at once and they have lots of plants and caves to establish their bossy little territories. Females may not have flashy long fins but honestly, shorter fins are better for the fish and the colors are just as varied. Female bettas can be fiesty and make great entertaining pets. 
However, I would not start a sorority until whatever is alive in the tank now are dealt with. Do you have pics? Maybe someone here can help identify them so you can research their individual needs. 

Bettas can live with some other community fish.


----------



## cassnessxox (Jan 9, 2013)

So we went to the aquarium to pick out some fish and...we came home with 2 blue yabbies!! lol So a bit of a different direction! We got 6 guppies to go with them though we know that some of them may not survive. The tank still needs a bit of decoration but at the moment they have a big holey rock and a tunnel that blows bubbles to hide in!


----------



## fuzz16 (Jan 9, 2013)

Lots of rock caves  i knew someone who bred them, and he kept guppies with his and they did okay lol. fry make good food. pics?

keep in mind, they may fight and someone will get declawed and killed if it gets bad. so lots of caves and things to keep their line of sight seperated


----------



## Nancy McClelland (Jan 9, 2013)

I used to have a 55 gallon show tank--mostly filled with Danios and Tetras that were all about the same size and a free roaming Beta.


----------



## cassnessxox (Jan 10, 2013)

We have a nice big holey rock and a tunnel so far but we will accumulate more over time. They do appear to be fighting over who gets to live in the rock though, might have to go get another one tomorrow =S


----------



## fuzz16 (Jan 10, 2013)

You can also use PVC pipe and hot glue or stack rocks around it to make a safe formation and a good hidey hole for them.


----------



## Acacia-Berry (Jan 10, 2013)

Oh my!! When you said Yabbies I was confused. But those are way cooler than a lot of fish IMHO!! Wow. So bright!


----------



## Imbrium (Jan 10, 2013)

I've never heard of those, but that looks exactly like a blue crawfish.


----------



## cassnessxox (Jan 11, 2013)

I think they are the same thing, they are known by a lot of names. Here in Australia I grew up on a farm and as a kid we would catch yabbies in our ****. I think yabby is an aussie name for freshwater crayfish.


----------



## degrassi (Jan 11, 2013)

Yabbies, crayfish, crawfish, "freshwater lobsters"(sometimes labels at the petstore) are all names for crayfish. Yabbies are the australian species, Crayfish/crawfish are what they are called in north america. 

I used to have a blue crayfish. His name was Dr. pinchy and he was awesome. He was bright blue with neon pink edges on his claws. I've had a couple crayfish over the years but mostly just the regular brownish species. They are really neat pets and interesting to watch. I've been thinking about setting up a tank for another one. 

I've also seen CPO crayfish(dwarf orange crayfish) at my LFS. They are supposedly "safe" to keep with each other or other fish. So I might get those to add to my community tank and see how it goes. They stay tiny and are a bright orange, pretty cool.


----------



## fuzz16 (Jan 11, 2013)

add to a community and they will eat/kill any fish they can get ahold of. their more for the centerpeice for a tank and you get dithers (too fast to be caught, ie danios) to get some movement


----------



## degrassi (Jan 11, 2013)

fuzz16 said:


> add to a community and they will eat/kill any fish they can get ahold of. their more for the centerpeice for a tank and you get dithers (too fast to be caught, ie danios) to get some movement



I was referring to the CPO crayfish. They are ok to add to a community tank. They are only about an inch long and behave more like shrimp then crayfish. Too small to catch fish and won't damage your plants as much. 

Yes, if you add regular crayfish into a tank they will try to eat any fish or plants. Not a good choice for a community tank. I used to call my crayfish "Edward scissorhands" as he would sit there and chop any plantsO added to his tank into confetti. Pretty funny to watch.


----------



## cassnessxox (Jan 11, 2013)

So I was too late to get more places to hide =_= they must have fought last night as one of them was dead this morning. I had some problems with my car yesterday so I was going to leave it till today and grab a new filter as well. Aww I feel bad, is the tank too small for two, did I not have enough hidey holes? Or were they just a bad match? I'm afraid to try again with another one, would it be a terrible idea to try again once I have more rocks and caves? I don't want to be responsible for any more death matchs. 

The tank still looks quite empty. If I put plastic plants in will he try and eat the plastic or ruin them? Would I be better off with real plants even though he will wreck them to?

Also the water is a bit cloudy, I'll buy a new filter today but what kind will be good enough? Do they have a power rating or something because we probably have different brands over here.


----------



## degrassi (Jan 11, 2013)

That tank is too small for 2 crayfish. If you get another one they will always fight and most likely kill each other. Stick to one and a couple fish(they may get eaten). 

Your tank is cloudy? Did you cycle it at all(or add used filter media from an established tank) before adding the crayfish and guppies? If you didn't then its going through its nitrogen cycle now, the cloudiness is a bacterial bloom(white cloudiness?). Start doing water changes to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels down. You could possibly loose some of the guppies or the crayfish because of the cycle. Don't add any new fish for a while.

A crayfish will kill real plants so dont' bother buying any. If you can get some free then feel free to add them and watch him chop them up. I used to add real plants to my crayfish tank but I used trimmings from my other aquariums and I replaced them every week. He will probably even try to eat/destroy plastic/silk plants. My crayfish damaged my plastic plants but it wasn't too bad, the edges just looked chewed up. So plastic would be a better choice over silk as they will probably shred up silk plants in no time. 

So start doing water changes and if you have test kits keep monitoring the water levels. Ideally you want to keep the ammonia/nitrite levels as low as possible during this cycling phase as any ammonia/nitrite can kill/harm the fish. If you don't have test kits just do water changes daily and keep watch on your fish's behaviour. If they aren't looking good(up at the top of the tank, clamped fins, red gills etc) change the water. Read up on the nitrogen cycle in aquariums. Takes a couple weeks for it to complete, then add fish 1-2 at a time.


----------



## cassnessxox (Jan 11, 2013)

The aquarium said it would be big enough but of course they did =_= They were just hoping we would go straight back and get another one once one died. I've been trying to do research but I'm finding it difficult finding information on keeping yabbies in a tank. No where have I been able to find any info on tank size and 50% of sites say keeping a pair will be fine and 50% say they need to be alone! 

So buying a new filter wouldn't help?


----------



## Sweetie (Jan 12, 2013)

Have you tried fishforums.com? I am a member on that forum and they are real good about helping people with their fish and tanks. If you want to become a member, you will have to be approved first, but after you are approved then you can post your question. If you have an urgent question that needs answered then I can post it for you and relay any responses to you until yo are approved.

I don't know anything about crayfish. But bettas can be community fish, they just have to be the last fish that you put in the tank. I would figure out what fish you want in your tank, because it is your tank and you need to be happy with the selection of fish you keep. Dwarf gouramis would probably be a good fit, but I think that only two can go in a 20 gallon, but I am not sure. I would go with the small fish that stay small. 

Yes cycle your tank, it will take about 6 to 8 weeks to cycle a 20 gallon. Get an API liquid test kit and test your water weekly. 

I have a 55 gallon tank and I change 50% water every week and I do weekly water tests to make sure that my water is good.


----------



## degrassi (Jan 12, 2013)

Instead of googling Yabbies search crayfish. Here is a good site specifically about the different species of blue crayfish http://www.bluecrayfish.com/

Also keeping "a pair" is different then keeping 2 crayfish in the same tank. A male/female pair might work for breeding purposes(if your crays aren't super aggresive) but just keeping 2 crayfish together in such a small tank isn't a good idea. 

Also, don't take the advice of people at the fish store. They are there to sell fish and usually don't know much other then the basics. Always research before buying. Even in the stores there are usually books(if they have a book section) you can flip through if you need to check something.

Now that you still have 1 crayfish left you are limited in what fish you can add to the tank. Stick to small, fast moving fish like danios or small tetras. Something that swims in the top level of your tank. That would exclude bettas and gouramis.


----------



## degrassi (Jan 12, 2013)

Oh, also make sure there are NO spaces in the aquarium lid that the crayfish can climb out. I mean NO spaces, not even a gap where your filter or heater goes. They can and will climb out. I found my first crayfish dead under the aquarium stand as he climb out the tiny 1" hole where my heater cord came out. Use coroplast to cover and tape up any holes. Even make a cover that goes over your filter outflow(assuming you have a hang on the back type filter)


----------



## BinkyBunny (Jan 12, 2013)

20 gal is a nice size to do a mixture in a fun community fish tank or cichlids I love cichlids. Make sure you get BioSpira for your water initially! It helps so much with balancing the tank water so fish don't die from the Nitrogen!


----------



## fuzz16 (Jan 12, 2013)

even small crayfish can be a danger to fish, their not filter feeders or have the same needs as shrimp, so you cant really compare them to shrimp. 


one to a tank, they are territorial. You can try some deep rooted fast growing plants. wendtiis are low light and grow fast, also will root veeery deep. but if you move them around, the leaves "melt" but will regrow when reburied. Also, java moss is a good option, too. lwater wisteria grows very fast and also a low light plant. not as deep rooted, but propagates by bits being snapped off and works good as a floating plant


----------



## fuzz16 (Jan 12, 2013)

Heres some threads from a guy who did it right with his blue crays, super great guy who is no longer on the forum. 


Heres his breeding thread
http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/freshwater-general-discussion/53550-fill-them-tanks-crayfish.html

http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/freshwater-general-discussion/46109-jerrys-journey.html

He has a lot of cool pictures of his tanks ect if you look around at his threads


----------



## Sweetie (Jan 12, 2013)

degrassi said:


> Instead of googling Yabbies search crayfish. Here is a good site specifically about the different species of blue crayfish http://www.bluecrayfish.com/
> 
> Also keeping "a pair" is different then keeping 2 crayfish in the same tank. A male/female pair might work for breeding purposes(if your crays aren't super aggresive) but just keeping 2 crayfish together in such a small tank isn't a good idea.
> 
> ...


 
Actually that would not exclude bettas or gouramis, as they are not bottom dwellers. I know that bettas are pretty quick when they need to be. I don't know about gouramis though. But bettas swim at mid to top level mostly.


----------



## degrassi (Jan 12, 2013)

> Actually that would not exclude bettas or gouramis, as they are not bottom dwellers. I know that bettas are pretty quick when they need to be. I don't know about gouramis though. But bettas swim at mid to top level mostly.



With their long fins they will easy to catch. A crayfish can catch danios so gouramis and bettas would just make for easy prey and an expensive snack.


----------



## Elliot (Jan 12, 2013)

The one who died might have been due to the tank not being cycled.


----------



## cassnessxox (Jan 13, 2013)

Thanks for all the advice, the water is clearing up a bit now
Pretty sure the one that died was killed, I never got to see it because I was at work but my boyfriend said that it appeared to have it's underside detached. Unless it died then the other one started to pull it apart to eat it. But wouldn't the guppies be the first to go if the water wasn't right? On the farm the yabbies lived in muddy dams full of sheep excrement so I assumed they would be less sensitive lol

Oh and the aquarium said I couldn't have tetras in there because of the temperature and ph level. Is that true? Same with bettas, not that I would bother risking a betta in there with it, but I do like neon tetras


----------



## Elliot (Jan 13, 2013)

Here are a couple articles that address your question
http://www.ehow.com/facts_7492649_type-fish-can-live-crawfish.html
http://www.fishchannel.com/media/freshwater-aquariums/invertebrates/crayfish.aspx.pdf

and a discussion with varied opinions
http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/93843-blue-lobsters/


----------



## degrassi (Jan 13, 2013)

Whats your PH? Tetras(even sensitive ones like Cardinals) can handle pretty much anything from soft to hard water. Our tap water here is ph 7.8 and hard, I keep angelfish, cardinals and even fancy soft water shrimp species just fine. Even discus will do fine and even breed in harder water, just as long as they are aclimatized to it slowly. Its more stability and clean water that is important. Most likely the fish store is keeping their fish in tap water(might have their discus on a different system) so any fish in the store will probably be ok if you are also using tank. 

Another thing when keeping 2 crayfish is that when they molt they are easy prey to other crayfish(or larger fish) in the tank. It takes a little while for their new shell to harden so they can't really defend themselves for about a day. 

Glad your tank is clearing up. But keep up with the water changes and test your water. Just because its clearing up doesn't mean the nitrogen cycle is finished. When your ammonia and Nitrite measure 0 and you start to see Nitrates then you can start adding new fish.


----------



## Acacia-Berry (Jan 13, 2013)

Sweetie said:


> Actually that would not exclude bettas or gouramis, as they are not bottom dwellers. I know that bettas are pretty quick when they need to be. I don't know about gouramis though. But bettas swim at mid to top level mostly.


 You should be more specific- long fin bettas would write their death sentence in a tank like that. They "can" dart but they have no stamina due to humans selectively breeding their tails longer and heavier. The ONLY anabantid I would put in there are short tailed bettas like plakats or a larger quicker gourami like the blue. But I wouldn't risk it either way, it's like leaving my bunny's pen open with the cat out and taking my chance because the cat is well fed. 

This is just my opinion though.


----------



## Sweetie (Jan 14, 2013)

I see your point Acacia-Berry. I have two cats myself and although they leave the rabbits alone, I would not leave them unattended with the rabbits. I would always supervise them while they are out together.


----------

