# concerned



## anthony27 (Sep 23, 2015)

Hi All,
great forum you have here,
I am a bit worried about my Holland lop, she is almost 5 yrs, spayed and up to date with all her vaccines, and has a good diet and get plenty of exercise, for the last few months she has us worried, it begin when I heard her one night sniffing around, it was a new sound I have not heard before, but as the days went on, this became more frequent and louder, plus sneezing and other odd sounds, we took her to the vet, they said she is fine, and its probably an allergy to something, so we have tried changing her food, cleaning her hutch more, but it keeps getting worse!she lives outside under the verendah and is covered with a tarp and blanket at night, this winter in South Australia has been bitterly bitterly cold, now she is really unwell, and struggles a lot, you can hear her breathing in an out for every breath, we took her to the vet again last night and they have given her Cerenia, which is supposed to help in this situation, apparently its a bit of an experiment, but I was wondering should she been on some sort of intravenous antibiotic? she has no discharge which is a good thing, but you can hear her breathing even from a far distance,
Hope you can help, 
Cheers
Anthony


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## majorv (Sep 23, 2015)

Does she have any kind of nasal discharge? Is she acting any different? I assume the vet did an xray to see if she had any kind of obstruction. I am reading that Cerenia is used for motion sickness in dogs, which doesn't make any sense to me.


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## anthony27 (Sep 23, 2015)

majorv said:


> Does she have any kind of nasal discharge? Is she acting any different? I assume the vet did an xray to see if she had any kind of obstruction. I am reading that Cerenia is used for motion sickness in dogs, which doesn't make any sense to me.



No she has not had any Xrays as of yet, I have suggested them, but the vets have not done it , In Australia they don't treat Rabbits as good as dogs and cats in my opinion, Cerenia is apparently supposed to also help with the snuffles for some reason according to some doctors.


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## JBun (Sep 23, 2015)

It sounds like your rabbit has an upper respiratory infection. This needs to be treated with several weeks to months of the appropriate rabbit safe antibiotic. If your rabbit is mouth breathing at all or seems to have difficulty breathing, it may have developed into pneumonia and your rabbit will need immediate emergency treatment. A few other medications that are commonly prescribed for a URI are meloxicam to help reduce inflammation to help ease the breathing, and bisolvon to help thin mucous secretions. Some rabbit owners also give their rabbits a bit of echinacea leaf or drops to help boost the immune system.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Respiratory/Bacterial/URI.htm

It doesn't sound as if your vet is terribly rabbit savvy. Seeing a rabbit savvy vet can make all the difference in a rabbit getting the appropriate diagnosis and treatment. If at all possible try and find a rabbit savvy vet. There are several members on here from Australia. You can post a thread asking for a 'rabbit savvy vet in' your area. Or you can take a look at these lists to see if there might be a rabbit vet listing near you.
http://members.shaw.ca/cocoasun/AustralianRabbitVets.htm
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/showthread.php?t=12014
http://www.boingonline.com/rabbit_vet_lis.html


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## anthony27 (Sep 23, 2015)

JBun said:


> It sounds like your rabbit has an upper respiratory infection. This needs to be treated with several weeks to months of the appropriate rabbit safe antibiotic. If your rabbit is mouth breathing at all or seems to have difficulty breathing, it may have developed into pneumonia and your rabbit will need immediate emergency treatment. A few other medications that are commonly prescribed for a URI are meloxicam to help reduce inflammation to help ease the breathing, and bisolvon to help thin mucous secretions. Some rabbit owners also give their rabbits a bit of echinacea leaf or drops to help boost the immune system.
> http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Respiratory/Bacterial/URI.htm
> 
> It doesn't sound as if your vet is terribly rabbit savvy. Seeing a rabbit savvy vet can make all the difference in a rabbit getting the appropriate diagnosis and treatment. If at all possible try and find a rabbit savvy vet. There are several members on here from Australia. You can post a thread asking for a 'rabbit savvy vet in' your area. Or you can take a look at these lists to see if there might be a rabbit vet listing near you.
> ...



Hi JBun,
my vet is on the list for South Australia, Holden Hill Vet, they are trying their best, my suspicion is that Apple requires a full antibiotic treatment, I ll see how she goes by the weekend, she is mouth breathing all the time, and makes some horrid gurgling sounds, might try some echinacea in the meantime
how long can she stay like this? how do i know if she has Pneumonia?


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## stevesmum (Sep 24, 2015)

Mouth breathing is a sign of severe respiratory distress in rabbits and constitutes an emergency. I think you need to take her to the vet NOW. Keep us posted.


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## anthony27 (Sep 24, 2015)

stevesmum said:


> Mouth breathing is a sign of severe respiratory distress in rabbits and constitutes an emergency. I think you need to take her to the vet NOW. Keep us posted.



eek, I am stuck at work, ill have to do it after work, hope she is ok,


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## JBun (Sep 24, 2015)

*You need to get your rabbit to the vet IMMEDIATELY!!! *

A rabbit mouth breathing is a sign of severe respiratory distress. Rabbits never breath through their mouths unless they are having significant difficulty getting enough air. Your rabbit may have pneumonia and if it isn't treated appropriately and promptly, your rabbit may not survive. Even with treatment it is often fatal. 

And if the vet is aware of this and didn't immediately want to admit your rabbit and put her on IV antibiotics, oxygen, and to nebulize your rabbit, I would have serious doubts as to the rabbit savviness of the vet. If your vet isn't aware of the mouth breathing, they need to be immediately informed.

But please get your rabbit to the vet immediately! This truly is life threatening. 

And don't let them fob you off if they don't take this very seriously and admit your rabbit. Sometimes you need to be an advocate for your rabbit when you know there is something wrong and the vet isn't giving the appropriate treatment. If you don't have confidence in this vet, even though supposedly rabbit savvy, it may be worth getting a second opinion if you have another rabbit vet available, or ask the vet to consult with a rabbit specialist. I believe there is one in Melbourne with a great deal of experience with rabbits. Or even a specialist in the UK could be consulted.


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## anthony27 (Sep 24, 2015)

JBun said:


> *You need to get your rabbit to the vet IMMEDIATELY!!! *
> 
> A rabbit mouth breathing is a sign of severe respiratory distress. Rabbits never breath through their mouths unless they are having significant difficulty getting enough air. Your rabbit may have pneumonia and if it isn't treated appropriately and promptly, your rabbit may not survive. Even with treatment it is often fatal.
> 
> ...



i will! thanks for your advice, I will keep you posted,


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## JBun (Sep 24, 2015)

If you are wanting to take your bun to a different vet, I believe RO moderator Azerane, may live in your general area. She posted a vet recommendation on the RO link I posted above. You could shot her a PM to see if she would still recommend them as being rabbit savvy.


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## anthony27 (Sep 24, 2015)

JBun said:


> If you are wanting to take your bun to a different vet, I believe RO moderator Azerane, may live in your general area. She posted a vet recommendation on the RO link I posted above. You could shot her a PM to see if she would still recommend them as being rabbit savvy.



Im in Adelaide South Australia,


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## JBun (Sep 24, 2015)

I have no idea how rabbit savvy they are. You would need to ask her if she still uses them and feels they are good rabbit vets, and if just one vet is rabbit savvy or if both are.

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/showthread.php?t=12014&page=2

'Dr. Cathy Skinner and Dr. Tess Holm

Para Hills Veterinary Clinic
523 Bridge Road, Para Hills, 5096
South Australia
(North/North eastern suburbs of Adelaide)
http://www.parahillsvet.com.au/

Love these guys, very knowledgeable.
Approximate prices for rabbits:
Neuter: $100
Spay: $200
Microchip (best done under anesthetic for small-med rabbits): $45
Consultation/Annual Health check: $62
Calicivirus vaccination: $15
Subcutaneous Fluids: $20
Metomide (gut motility injection): $18.70

As a side note, Vets 4 Pets at Golden Grove keeps some oxbow products in stock, hay cubes, pellets, critical care etc. But I wouldn't recommend them for consults etc. '


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## Azerane (Sep 24, 2015)

I'm sorry if I'm delayed too long, Para Hills Veterinary Clinic is the best that I know of in the area, Dr Cathy Skinner and Tess as already mentioned.

Otherwise, if you need an after hours clinic, the Blakes Crossing Veterinary Hostpital does emergency/after hours. I've not been but I'm told that one of their vets, I think it's Louise Bower, it's very rabbit savvy.


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## anthony27 (Sep 24, 2015)

Azerane said:


> I'm sorry if I'm delayed too long, Para Hills Veterinary Clinic is the best that I know of in the area, Dr Cathy Skinner and Tess as already mentioned.
> 
> Otherwise, if you need an after hours clinic, the Blakes Crossing Veterinary Hostpital does emergency/after hours. I've not been but I'm told that one of their vets, I think it's Louise Bower, it's very rabbit savvy.



Thanks for all your help everyone!
when I got she was okay thankfully, she is now running around the backyard and is pretty content, you still hear her sniffing constantly though, I will bring her in tonight as its quite cold, I will see how she goes by the weekend, and take her to the vet , maybe i should upload a video to show you what she is like?


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## stevesmum (Sep 24, 2015)

I'd go sooner if I were you, since you mentioned the mouth breathing and gurgling sounds, but it's your choice. Hope she can pull through.


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## Azerane (Sep 24, 2015)

If you wait until the weekend, many clinics are only open Saturday morning for a short time, otherwise you'll likely have to go to an emergency clinic which can be more expensive. I also wouldn't wait and see, but that's just me. Glad to hear she's picked up a little at least


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## anthony27 (Sep 24, 2015)

Azerane said:


> If you wait until the weekend, many clinics are only open Saturday morning for a short time, otherwise you'll likely have to go to an emergency clinic which can be more expensive. I also wouldn't wait and see, but that's just me. Glad to hear she's picked up a little at least



Hi guys,
yep I am planning to take her in tonight after work, i don't want to take any chances!
many thanks
Anthony


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## Azerane (Sep 26, 2015)

Any word on your bunny? Wondering how things went.


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## anthony27 (Sep 27, 2015)

Azerane said:


> Any word on your bunny? Wondering how things went.



Hi Azarene,
thank you for asking about Apple,, she is going to the parahills vet tommorow, I think she wasnt mouth breathing but rather she was sniffniling! I will let u know how it goes
Cheers
Anthony


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## Azerane (Sep 29, 2015)

anthony27 said:


> Hi Azarene,
> thank you for asking about Apple,, she is going to the parahills vet tommorow, I think she wasnt mouth breathing but rather she was sniffniling! I will let u know how it goes
> Cheers
> Anthony



Ok, would love to hear how it went  Hope she is recovering.


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## anthony27 (Oct 3, 2015)

Azerane said:


> Ok, would love to hear how it went  Hope she is recovering.



Bit of an update about buns, she is on *a *Prophylactic antibiotic, I have to inject her once daily, hopefully this should help out, the vet also diffused some flouro dye in her eyes , to check her upper respitory tract, it came straight out of her right nostril, but i think her left may be blocked. next weekend she has xrays and more treatment, fingers crossed. The vet indeed confirmed she is mouth breathing, and recommends some nebulizer type treatment, now its hotting up which does not help. but she is a trooper!
and the other vet was right in giving her cerenia, apparently it does work well on rabbits


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## Azerane (Oct 5, 2015)

anthony27 said:


> Bit of an update about buns, she is on *a *Prophylactic antibiotic, I have to inject her once daily, hopefully this should help out, the vet also diffused some flouro dye in her eyes , to check her upper respitory tract, it came straight out of her right nostril, but i think her left may be blocked. next weekend she has xrays and more treatment, fingers crossed. The vet indeed confirmed she is mouth breathing, and recommends some nebulizer type treatment, now its hotting up which does not help. but she is a trooper!
> and the other vet was right in giving her cerenia, apparently it does work well on rabbits



Sounds like she's got a few things going on, but hopefully it all clears up with treatment.  Bandit's indoors so the heat doesn't really concern him, though he seems to be loving the air conditioner


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## anthony27 (Oct 6, 2015)

Azerane said:


> Sounds like she's got a few things going on, but hopefully it all clears up with treatment.  Bandit's indoors so the heat doesn't really concern him, though he seems to be loving the air conditioner



The vet also mentioned that Buns could do with some humidity treatment, do you think its possible to use a humidifier or something similar? would anyone know where to get one in south oz?


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## Azerane (Oct 6, 2015)

anthony27 said:


> The vet also mentioned that Buns could do with some humidity treatment, do you think its possible to use a humidifier or something similar? would anyone know where to get one in south oz?



Presuming that's what he meant, I'm pretty sure you can buy them at chemists, though you could probably get them cheaper online.


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## anthony27 (Oct 6, 2015)

Hi Guys,

So bit of an update, took Apple to the E.R last night, she was really struggling to eat and breath, kept making some horrid gurgling sounds, I just could not bear to see her suffering like that,
they performed some tests and gave her xrays of her torso, they found no problems with her heart or lungs which is great, but her abdomen was severely swollen and full of swallowed air,  
they began discussing &#8216;options&#8217; but my wife and I are willing to exhaust all other avenues before it comes to that, thank you very much! They did say she has G.I stasis, so they were treating her for that,
We need to give her a head xray, but have to wait until she is stable enough, at the moment she is eating but not passing fecal matter, so they advise that we will need to wait.
My wife and I have been saying to vets for over six months now that she requires head xrays, but they all put it off, blaming allergies and diet and what not, I am not impressed, I feel they don&#8217;t take rabbits as serious as dogs and cats, until it&#8217;s time to pay the bill!
So there could be a few things going on in her skull, abscess, blockage, tumor, teeth, etc. Has anyone gone through anything similar? Love some hopeful stories,
Hopefully they can fix her, she is a big part of our family, on a side note, it can be hard being a male with a pet rabbit and been taken serious! 
Thanks again for all your support
Anthony


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## anthony27 (Oct 6, 2015)

Another point that was concerning was that the vet said that Holland dwarf lops can only really expect to get to about 5 years of age, but i have read they get much older than that, any thoughts? she is 4 years and 11 months ,


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## JBun (Oct 7, 2015)

Well since I have a 10 year old holland lop, and though old with some health issues, is still ticking along, I would say that statement isn't entirely accurate. It might be what that vet has experienced, due to the various health issues rabbits can have and sometimes from the poor care that they receive, but it doesn't mean that an individual rabbit can't live much longer if well cared for and it remains relatively healthy throughout it's life. In fact some rabbits have been known to live much longer, even to the age of 15-18 years. Many times you will find that people may not think rabbits live very long because they are not often understood very well and as a result don't end up living as long as they possibly could, as well as the fragility of their nature at times can shorten their life span.

Hopefully the head xrays will help the vet determine what exactly is going on. It may be a respiratory infection that has gone untreated due to the misdiagnosis by the vet, or it could possibly be something else as you have mentioned. Dental related is certainly possible as respiratory infections can certainly be connected to a dental infection, or even overgrown tooth roots impacting on the nasal cavity. Tumors and thymoma are also possible causes.

One thing that may be helpful if there is any difficulty determining what is going on with your rabbit and how to treat, is having your vet consult with a rabbit specialist. Some of the best rabbit vets reside in the UK with a wealth of knowledge in treating rabbits, and they can be easily contacted and consulted with from all over the world. Because of this training and experience, it can sometimes make diagnosis and treatment more accurate and cost effective as well, as the more quickly an illness is accurately diagnosed and correctly treated, the less unnecessary testing is done and the less it is dragged out. It's what I would do if I wasn't sure my rabbit was getting the correct diagnosis and treatment.

If you haven't already, you may want to consider getting the nebulizer as this can help ease the breathing difficulties. Certain antibiotics can also be administered this way so that they will directly get to the infection in the airway, if that is indeed the cause of your rabbits respiratory problems. 

I hope you will soon be able to get to the bottom of this and that your rabbit will get the appropriate treatment and recover well.

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Bacterial/RhinitisRabbits.htm
http://www.sawneeanimalclinic.com/downloads/rhinitis_and_sinusitis_in_rabbits.pdf
http://www.vetsonline.com/publicati.../n-38-12/respiratory-diseases-in-rabbits.html


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## anthony27 (Oct 7, 2015)

JBun said:


> Well since I have a 10 year old holland lop, and though old with some health issues, is still ticking along, I would say that statement isn't entirely accurate. It might be what that vet has experienced, due to the various health issues rabbits can have and sometimes from the poor care that they receive, but it doesn't mean that an individual rabbit can't live much longer if well cared for and it remains relatively healthy throughout it's life. In fact some rabbits have been known to live much longer, even to the age of 15-18 years. Many times you will find that people may not think rabbits live very long because they are not often understood very well and as a result don't end up living as long as they possibly could, as well as the fragility of their nature at times can shorten their life span.
> 
> Hopefully the head xrays will help the vet determine what exactly is going on. It may be a respiratory infection that has gone untreated due to the misdiagnosis by the vet, or it could possibly be something else as you have mentioned. Dental related is certainly possible as respiratory infections can certainly be connected to a dental infection, or even overgrown tooth roots impacting on the nasal cavity. Tumors and thymoma are also possible causes.
> 
> ...



Hi JBun, thank you for your comments, It seems like everyone here in South Oz doesn't quite understand rabbits, but we will see, An interesting point is that we stopped giving her hay for a long while last year on advice of the vet that it was giving her allergies, that may have been a bad idea! after I read some of your links
I hope her stomach can recover, the Xrays looked just plain horrible,
also if you could give me some email addresses of specialists in the UK that would be great
Cheers
Anthony


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## JBun (Oct 7, 2015)

Frances Harcourt Brown is probably one of the best rabbit experts out there, but she is semi retired. She is apparently still doing some consulting so you may luck out and be able to get her help. She wrote the first edition of the 'Textbook of Rabbit Medicine'.
http://www.crablanevets.co.uk/our-practice/veterinary-surgeons/

Molly Varga is also very good and revised FHB's 'Textbook of Rabbit Medicine'. Marie Kubiak is at the same Edgbaston clinic, and is also a good rabbit vet.
http://www.manorvets.co.uk/meet-our-team/?location=Edgbaston&job=

Mark Rowland at Trinity Vets
http://www.trinityvetcentre.com/Trinity_Vet_Centre/Our_Vets.html
Richard Saunders
http://www.highcroftvetreferrals.co.uk/exotic-species-team
Iain Cope
http://www.cambridgevetgroup.co.uk/vets/
John Chitty
http://antonvets.co.uk/exotics/189-2/
William Lewis
http://www.orchidvets.co.uk/veterinary-staff/
Aidan Raftery
http://ashleigh-veterinary-centre.com/staff-by-departments/veterinary-surgeons/
Ian Sayers
http://www.silvertonvets.co.uk/about-us/staff.shtml

All of these vets are considered specialists in the UK and have also been recommended by other experienced rabbit owners. There may be rabbit specialists in your country, but I am only familiar with the ones in the UK. If I had to choose, my first pick would be FHB. They do charge a consult fee and I believe that your vet has to be the one to talk to which ever specialist you choose. 
http://www.bvzs.org/images/uploads/BVZS_Specialist_list_2015.pdf


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## anthony27 (Oct 7, 2015)

Hi All,
thankyou for your tremendous support it has really helped in this difficult time,
my wife and I just got back from the emergency room, she is mobile and out and about, but has GI, iilias? they are going to keep her for another night, the problem is the cost, it is $500 AUD every 24 hrs! they did a scan of her head and it looks asthough she has some sort of bloackge in her left sinus, they are not sure what it is though, they have a specialist coming in on Sunday , this surgery will cost around $1500, and then there is the post op care cost, so we are in a big pickle and dont want to have to make the dreaded decision, but I dont think we can afford the care, my other option is to bring her home and try and get her over the GI until sunday when she has the Operation, do you think this is feasible, I am scare we wont be able to look after her as good as the vets could, I have attached a photo of her from earlier tonight,,,


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## anthony27 (Oct 7, 2015)

we just went and saw her for a couple of hours, I am really scared that she aint going to see the night through, she was listlesss towards the end of our visit, I hope she can pick up and turns this around, its not the nasal problem giving her grief it is the GI, this SUCKS!


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## anthony27 (Oct 7, 2015)

The vet has also hinted at euthanasia as a possibility in the next day or so, I feel this may be jumping the gun a bit, how do I know that there is still the possibility she may pull out of it, how long can she stay as she is? And make a good recovery, need help with this big time


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## JBun (Oct 7, 2015)

As long as she doesn't have bloat and it is just GI stasis, recovery is much more possible. If your rabbit isn't critical and doesn't need to be on oxygen or IV, you should be able to home treat as long as you keep up on the meds, fluids, and feedings as needed. Home care for a rabbit in stasis is quite common as it can sometimes take several weeks to really get the GI back to functioning normally. 

You want to make sure you get take home pain meds, gut motility meds, antibiotics, and recovery syringe feeding mix. Make sure to get the pain meds as good pain control is essential in recovery and getting a rabbit eating again. Also make sure it is at the recommended dosage for rabbits as too little won't be very effective and rabbits often need a higher dose than a cat or dog would. Other medications may also be needed, and the vet showing you how to give sub q fluids may also be helpful as good hydration is very important for recovery. As long as your rabbit isn't in severe distress, displaying altered consciousness, and will still swallow her feeding mix, there is a good chance she will recover. Usually when they will no longer swallow and/or are extremely lethargic, these are not good signs of recovering and is often past the point of being able to turn things around

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/GastricStasis_Rabbits.htm


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## anthony27 (Oct 7, 2015)

Hi all,
I am a bit lost, just went to the vet and they seem all to keen to have her snuffed out by tonight, I really do not want to do it, what are options can I do? she means the world to us
how do i determine if there is a chance, any chance at all


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## anthony27 (Oct 7, 2015)

also apparantely she had 5 little stools in her hutch, which is a good sign isnt it??


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## JBun (Oct 7, 2015)

If she is passing poop and will still swallow syringe feeds, and seems alert enough, I would be inclined to keep going. You know your rabbit better than anyone and you will be in the best position to know if you should keep fighting or if it is time. Sometimes vets can't see what we can and may want to give up too early. However if she won't swallow and/or seems in severe distress, pts might be the best thing for her. Again, only you can decide.


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## anthony27 (Oct 8, 2015)

So went to the E.R tonight ready to let her go
And she is hopping and eating, flopping , coudnt do it needless to say
Will reassess tommorow 
Fingers crossed


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## anthony27 (Oct 8, 2015)

Hi All,
I think it is timethat I became a vet for the weekend and open to suggestions of help, advice,
I am leaving apple in the ER until tommorow night after work, I cannot get out f work, I was thinking of picking her up tommorow night and taking her home to care for, I cannot afford the fees as we may need to operate on her,
so what do i need to take care of her at home, She has two main problems, GI Stasis as a result of sinus infection (they are not 100% what it is but her left nostril is blocked in the xray), she is having difficulty breathing, So I need to clear the GI Stasis then hopefully they can perform on her and fix the sinus issues, they have a rabbit specialist coming in three days and I wanted to take her to him then, not sure how to get her stable enough, feels like a viscous circle and I am not sure how to get her out of it, but there must be a way. So what instruments and meds/food will need, should I get a nebulizer? they had her on oxygen today and she was so much better. any advice welcome, next week will be hard because I will be back at work 9-5, so not sure how I will look after her then?
also after the operation how long wold she need to stay at the surgery?
Warmest Regards
Anthony


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## majorv (Oct 8, 2015)

It would help if they could identify the sinus blockage before surgery, maybe do a ct scan or some other soft tissue scan. Have they suggested it might be a tumor?


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## anthony27 (Oct 8, 2015)

majorv said:


> It would help if they could identify the sinus blockage before surgery, maybe do a ct scan or some other soft tissue scan. Have they suggested it might be a tumor?



Yep a ct scan is the next step
They don't suspect a tumor


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## anthony27 (Oct 8, 2015)

Went ans saw apple just before, good news she is eating and pooping again, tommorow she sees the specialist to fix the nose issue, not out of the woods yet , but a step in the right direction! Thanks for your advice everyone


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## Azerane (Oct 9, 2015)

I'm so glad that she's made it through thus far, the costs are very high, but always worth it in the end I believe. Wishing you all the best that it can be worked out.


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## anthony27 (Oct 9, 2015)

Hi all,
Apple has an appointment tomorrow morning with the exotics specialist dr shangz xie at Aec magill rd Norwood Adelaide, does anyone know if he is rabbit savvy? The other day he liaised with my vet as he is a consultant and he was ready to pull the plug on Apple, from what I can comprehend, so I'm not sure whether to trust him 100 per cent with his advice tomorrow?? So confused on what to do again!,,,must admit though the staff at the er have been bloody amazing, great guys and gals, so supportive! Need advice asap:?


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## anthony27 (Oct 9, 2015)

Also noticed that today she was happy hopping around and eating a lot, tonight she was hunched over and not eating, it feels like a roller coaster ride, is this normal, she had 3 or 4 small pellets in her tray, should she have more by now?


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## JBun (Oct 9, 2015)

I only know of the vets recommended on the Aus. rabbit vet site, and his name isn't mentioned. Maybe Azerane would know. But it does seem like your options are limited. You could always get a second opinion from one of the other rabbit vets on the list or have the vet consult with a UK specialist, especially before any surgery is attempted. Though I'm not quite sure why they are even suggesting surgery at this point, if that is indeed what they are doing, especially if it is an infection that they suspect and regular antibiotics haven't even been given a good try. Do you know exactly what it is the vet wants to do or is thinking in regards to what they have found so far? 

If you are unsure of the vets rabbit experience, I would certainly want a consultation with someone that is a confirmed rabbit specialist, before proceeding with any type of surgical procedure. Case in point, another rabbit owner in the UK took her rabbit to the local vet due to GI stasis symptoms. The vet was recommending abdominal surgery. Abdominal surgery is usually 50/50 on whether the rabbit survives. She thankfully went for a second opinion to the rabbit specialist FHB, who did not recommend abdominal surgery and found the stasis occurred due to a sliver stuck in the rabbits tongue. Procedure to remove the sliver and the rabbit is fine. A rabbit savvy vet can make all the difference in correct diagnosis and treatment. My suggestion, consult with a specialist in the UK if you are unsure of the rabbit savviness of your vets and the treatment, and don't have a known specialist there, especially if they are suggesting surgery. Because there are so few good rabbit vets out there, we have to almost know what is really needed for our buns and be their advocate in making sure the right thing is done.

I'm also not sure that you want to be putting your rabbit through any additional stress at this time until you have this GI stasis situation sorted and she is back to eating well and her usual self. She'll be in a weakened state due to this and that's not usually a good time to be complicating things with surgery or other procedures. The only way you want to go forward with further treatment is if her underlying health issue is contributing to the stasis continuing and not clearing up.

Is your rabbit on pain medication, and if so which one(s), the dose, concentration of solution, and how often? Inadequate pain medication could be one explanation of why she is doing better at one part of the day and worse later on. It could also just be the stasis, as it can be a bit or a roller coaster as they are recovering.


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## JBun (Oct 9, 2015)

Here is some reading up you can do on investigation and treatment for upper respiratory problems. Again, I would want to wait til my rabbit was recovered from the digestive issue before undergoing any stressful procedure for the respiratory problem, unless the underlying illness was preventing my rabbit from recovering from the stasis. 

http://www.vetsonline.com/publicati...4/approaches-to-nasal-disease-in-rabbits.html
http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/navc/2005/SAE/562.pdf?LA=1


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## Azerane (Oct 9, 2015)

I'm afraid I wouldn't have a clue about his experience with rabbits. I only know about the ones already mentioned earlier in the thread. If you're particularly worried about it you could ask him to liaise with someone from the Melbourne Rabbit clinic http://www.melbournerabbitclinic.com/wordpress/ Who knows if they'd do it but there's never harm in asking.


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## anthony27 (Oct 9, 2015)

Hi JBun,
Thank you for your prompt response, my wife and I are so thankful, we are going to write to all the specialist now and give the list to the vet specialist also he may be able to liaise with them, I will find out exactly what meds she is on and let you know what is happening pronto,
Wish I was living in the UK, they are sub par in Australia!,
Wish us luck
Cheers
Anthony


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## anthony27 (Oct 9, 2015)

We love your profile pics JBun and Azerane, very beautiful guys indeed!


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## anthony27 (Oct 9, 2015)

Azerane said:


> I'm afraid I wouldn't have a clue about his experience with rabbits. I only know about the ones already mentioned earlier in the thread. If you're particularly worried about it you could ask him to liaise with someone from the Melbourne Rabbit clinic http://www.melbournerabbitclinic.com/wordpress/ Who knows if they'd do it but there's never harm in asking.



Thanks Azerane, I will suggest this to him!


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## Jackalope (Oct 9, 2015)

I just want you to know, I've been checking this thread for a couple days now to see the updates. You're in my thoughts. Good luck.


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## anthony27 (Oct 9, 2015)

Also if u guys need help in someway let me know, I'm a product designer by trade, and you have been so supportive, that we owe you so much for giving us extra time with our little boons, pm me if I you want to chat


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## anthony27 (Oct 10, 2015)

Hi All,
I am really HAPPY to announce that Apple is back home with us! Dr Xie was very very good and very knowledgeable, we are keeping a keen eye on her, she is still kind of still and just sleeping and has a little stasis, but she has had a big week after all, not sure whether we need to stimulate or pet her or just leave her be to relax, what do you guys think?
here is the list of the medicines the doc gave us,


Critical Care, 15ml every 6 hours if she is not eating on her own
Meloxicam Oral solution 10ml #(1), 0.6ml orally twice a day for 7 days
Florfenicol 300mg/ml injections, 0.15ml per day
not sure if i need to massage her tummy or do anything else?
we have her inside the laundry at the moment, its hard for my wife and I because we are both allergic to rabbits and cats GO Figure!
taking clarantyne, gives some relief,


here are some pics of her and I may post a video for you to see her,
Thanks again everyone, you are amazing people!


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## anthony27 (Oct 10, 2015)

https://youtu.be/WlBvwlhBayY
here is a video of Apple ,,


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## anthony27 (Oct 10, 2015)

Jackalope said:


> I just want you to know, I've been checking this thread for a couple days now to see the updates. You're in my thoughts. Good luck.


Thankyou for your thoughts! they seemed to have worked!


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## anthony27 (Oct 10, 2015)

I've noticed tonight there are only a couple of poos, she is eating on her own, should she be massaged or given critical care to help her poo?


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## JBun (Oct 11, 2015)

If she isn't eating normally, yes you should be supplementing with critical care, syringe feeding it if she won't eat it on her own. You need to make sure she is consuming enough food through out the day to ensure good digestive motility. How much critical care to feed and how often just depends on how much she is eating on her own. But it is very important to keep her digestive tract moving with food and fluids or you risk a blockage developing. Fiber mostly from hay, is what drives the digestive tract and will keep it moving. There is ground up hay in critical care. Mostly belly massage is used when a rabbit has gas, to help move the bubbles through the digestive tract. 

I'm glad that the vet you saw turned out to be good. 

Poor girl, I'm glad she is at least back home with you and feeling a little bit better.



anthony27 said:


> Also if u guys need help in someway let me know, I'm a product designer by trade, and you have been so supportive, that we owe you so much for giving us extra time with our little boons, pm me if I you want to chat



Thank you. That is a very kind offer.


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