# Please help, rabbit won't eat or drink!!



## PeytonCara (Dec 29, 2013)

Okay so not too long ago I posted a thread about my rabbit being what seemed to be sad. A day after he seemed to spunk up, then about two days later he started to sneeze a little. (He has already been diagnosed with pasteurella. He usually takes baytril when he has a flare up and we have been seeing the same vet for about a year. She moved out of state and referred me to another vet in the same clinic this is my first experience with her). When his flare up started, I quickly made an appointment because he never acts this down.

I took him in and the vet decided to start him on a new antibiotic (Azithromycin). During his check up the vet discovered he has abnormally small ear canals that were swollen and also has ear infections in both ears. Also, she said he needs to eat more hay because his teeth are starting to get points.

This was all a huge surprise for me, I had just had him in for a checkup two months ago and everything was perfect. I know their health can turn quickly but I was really shocked. He always has tons of hay, and I always see him eating it. Maybe it's just not enough? Idk, he also gets greens so I was just shocked that the teeth were even a problem. She said it looked like they were in the beginning stages and it wasn't causing problems yet.

She gave me some ear solution to clean his ears once a week and some metacam to help with the swelling. She told me since he is young I could also add some alfalfa hay to his timothy hay in hopes to get him to eat more. I went home, filled his prescriptions, bought some alfalfa, and immediately gave them to him.

After giving them to him he ate and drank as usual, I felt pretty good about everything and confident things would get better but this morning things weren't the same. I was worried so I stayed home and spent the entire day with him, he won't eat anything not even his favorites and he won't drink at all. I didn't give him any medication today in fear it would make it worse. The most I could get him to eat was about three pieces of cilantro, and he nibbled on some hay. That's it.

I have plenty of Oxbow Critical Care, and syringes so I can use that to feed him the critical care and some water. Should I do this? I don't want to stress him out but it seems like going this long without food or water is not good at all... like at all. 

Please if anyone can help, I'm actually really worried right now
Additional info on him he is male, neutered, and 1.5 years old. Usually when I give him baytril is stool gets smaller, and it is also smaller at the moment. Thanks everyone.


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## JBun (Dec 29, 2013)

It could have been the new antibiotic. Sometimes they can cause loss of appetite. If he is still pooping and it has been several hours since he really ate very much, I would start syringe feeding. It's not good for a rabbit to go more than 12 hours without eating and drinking. You may want to continue with the metacam though, as it may help him to start eating again if he stopped due to pain, but give it as was directed by your vet. If you think he could be experiencing gas pain, you could also try some simethicone.

Also stop the alfalfa hay for now. If you suddenly introduced too much into his diet, that could also be the cause of him not feeling well. Alfalfa is best slowly introduced into the diet, or it can cause digestive upset for some rabbits.

If he's not pooping and hasn't eaten for more than 12 hours, or his condition worsens, you need to get him into a vet.


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## PeytonCara (Dec 29, 2013)

I just took out the alfalfa and cleaned his litter box and put all Timothy back in. He is still passing stool and it's actually pretty much normal size. My vets office is closed tomorrow because it's Sunday I just forced water with a syringe and he has nibbled on a little bit of hay. I can see that he is very stressed. Do you think I should go ahead and force feed or just let him be and hope he continues with the hay?


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## PeytonCara (Dec 29, 2013)

I thought the same thing with the metacam, but on the bottle it says do not use unless eating and drinking in big letters. But he has been on metacam before for his neuter and once more for his eye when it puffed up because of his URI. He has never had a problem eating/drinking/passing stool on metacam, but I'm torn because it clearly says not to use it if they aren't eating.


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## JBun (Dec 29, 2013)

Try and encourage him to eat something on his own, leafy greens or hay. And if he won't eat more than a sprig or two, you may want to go ahead and syringe feed. But if he is eating at least a little bit(more than one or two small pieces), then it might be best to not stress him with syringe feeding, though you will want to keep up with the water if he isn't drinking. Try his leafy greens too. Often they will eat these when they won't touch other foods.

If it is time for his next dose of metacam, you could go ahead and give it, then if he won't eat anything, syringe him some critical care and water after giving the dose. That way he won't be having the metacam on an empty stomach.


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## PeytonCara (Dec 29, 2013)

He has had a big leaf of romaine and a bundle of cilantro that he hasn't touched in hours:/ I have tried all his favorites too. Even the treats even though I know when they have tummy problems they are supposed to follow a stricter diet, I was just curious to see if he would take anything. but he literally won't touch anything besides a little bit of hay and I've noticed I have to hand feed it to him for him to show any interest. He's currently taking a nap in his litter box, when he wakes up I think I will try metacam and the critical care. 

Since I didn't give him the antibiotic tonight is it possible that it will wear off and he will get his apatite back? I'm not really sure how this works. I'm going to leave a voicemail and try to get him in on Monday reguardless.


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## JBun (Dec 29, 2013)

One of the side effects of azithromycin in particular, can be loss of appetite. If it's the cause of him not eating, then as it wears off he should start feeling better. But that is also reliant on keeping him hydrated and his gut moving so he doesn't also develop stasis.


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## PeytonCara (Dec 29, 2013)

Okay he is still passing stool and I have fed critical care and water and plan on doing it throghtout the day. I commute to college and we actually have a 24/7 emergency clinic I can take him to today if I need to. Do you think I should drive him out there and have him checked out or wait to see his regular vet in the morning?


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## Imbrium (Dec 29, 2013)

If an emergency vet is an option, I think it's a good idea - they'll probably give him something like metoclopramide (Reglan) to help with gut motility. GI stasis and/or pre-stasis symptoms like lack of appetite need to be treated pretty aggressively - it's been about 10 hours since your first post, so if his appetite isn't back, it's time for a vet trip.


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## JBun (Dec 29, 2013)

Does your vet have an emergency number that you could call and get their opinion on the best thing to do?

I would think that as long as your bun is pooping and you are able to syringe feed, then he might be ok til tomorrow. But you should go with your gut on what you think is best. And if you start seeing runny poop, lethargy, or changes in behavior, then get him to the emergency vet.

If in doubt, take him to the vet.


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## PeytonCara (Dec 29, 2013)

Just contacted the emergency vet- they do not take rabbits. However they put me on the phone with a vet who could answer some questions. She told me I am doing everything right as far as the critical care and water goes, she also said I should continue the metacam. She said every vet is different, but she would recommend putting him on the metacam to relieve some pain and hopefully get him to eat. She also told me since he only had one dose of the azithromycin to stop it until I see my vet tomorrow.

I just talked to a friend who recommended pedialyte to maybe help hydrate him? Not sure what it is or does so I need to look into it a little more before I go buying it and giving it to him.


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## JBun (Dec 29, 2013)

Pedialyte is just electrolytes. Usually if a rabbit hasn't been eating and drinking, it needs it's fluids and electrolytes restored, but if you have been feeding your bun the critical care and syringing water, then he should be fine, as the critical care has the needed minerals in it already. You can try the pedialyte if you want, but it's not something you want to continue giving unless needed, because of the sugars in it. You want to use the plain pedialyte.


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## Imbrium (Dec 29, 2013)

Yeah, unflavored pedialyte is the only one without an artificial sweetener in it and therefore the only one safe to give to animals. While it's good for hydration, critical care already has minerals and such in it and pedialyte has sugar, as JBun pointed out. Sugar can potentially aggravate GI stasis, so if he doesn't seem particularly dehydrated, you're probably better off sticking to syringing water.

I think the vet you consulted with by phone gave good advice - I'd go with that and take him in tomorrow (even if he starts feeling better, since you need to address the cause of the stasis and the fact that you stopped the antibiotic).


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## PeytonCara (Dec 29, 2013)

Okay I will just stick with the critical care and water every couple hours. Do rabbits usually come back from this kind of thing? Not gonna lie, I'm really freaked out right now


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## Imbrium (Dec 29, 2013)

It really depends on the underlying cause of the stasis and how well it's treated. Stasis can be result from extremely serious health conditions... or something as simple and easy to treat as a small amount of gas. Assuming it was the antibiotics that caused him to not want to eat, then since you're stopping the antibiotics and getting critical care and water into him, the prognosis is good. Probiotics could definitely help, since he's been getting antibiotics (they can counter many of the side-effects, including nausea). You might also encourage him to run around and get some exercise, as that helps get/keep the gut moving. Hopefully the metacam will relieve any pain he might be experiencing and his appetite will return as the antibiotic wears off.

The best thing to do is to keep yourself calm and take it one step at a time - if you freak out, he can pick up on that and it can make him worry (which can make him more reluctant to eat). Right now, I have no reason to suspect he won't pull through just fine if you keep him on metacam, stop the antibiotics, syringe feed/water him and get him to the vet tomorrow. The toughest part will be tonight if he's not eating on his own by then, since he'll need syringe-feedings throughout the night as well.


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## PeytonCara (Dec 29, 2013)

Once I put him on the metacam he has done less pouting and gotten more excersize. He is still passing stool, but he still refuses to eat anything on his own. It's hard trying to stay calm but I'm really trying for him. He gets all tense once he sees me, he totally knows I'm going to pck him up and force feed him. I have been syringe feeding water and food about every 3 hours, is that correct?


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## lovelops (Dec 30, 2013)

PeytonCara said:


> He has had a big leaf of romaine and a bundle of cilantro that he hasn't touched in hours:/ I have tried all his favorites too. Even the treats even though I know when they have tummy problems they are supposed to follow a stricter diet, I was just curious to see if he would take anything. but he literally won't touch anything besides a little bit of hay and I've noticed I have to hand feed it to him for him to show any interest. He's currently taking a nap in his litter box, when he wakes up I think I will try metacam and the critical care.
> 
> Since I didn't give him the antibiotic tonight is it possible that it will wear off and he will get his apatite back? I'm not really sure how this works. I'm going to leave a voicemail and try to get him in on Monday reguardless.



I hope so. Have you been able to get him to take any water/pedialite/ any liquids? When I see Chica or Chico doing this in the past I have given them water/fluids that way. 

Please keep us posted and I hope all this is gone in a few and everything is back to normal.:happybunny:

Vanessa


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## JBun (Dec 30, 2013)

That's about how often I did it when my bun was sick. I'm glad the metacam's helping a little.

Yes, rabbits can certainly recover from this. If the azithromycin is the cause, it may take a few days to work out of his system, so he'll just need a bit of nursing in the meantime. Zithromax can be helpful for difficult infections, but apparently it can have some nasty side effects, and is probably best left as a last resort antibiotic. I'm a bit surprised that vet wanted to use it right off without trying some of the other ones.


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## PeytonCara (Dec 30, 2013)

Thanks, I will definitely keep everyone posted. I really hope this all goes back to normal too, these last few days have been hectic. He's a tough little guy, I think with the right medicine he can pull through.

Yeah, all she really said about it was that she didn't like the fact that we weren't seeing improvement with baytril and she thought we should try it. I'm not sure if she was hoping it would help knock out his ear infections also? She seemed really concerned about his ears. It doesn't help that I'm not super familiar with her either, this was my first time seeing her with my rabbit.


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## Imbrium (Dec 30, 2013)

Pooping is always a great sign, as is activity (running around rather than being lethargic). It sounds like things are progressing in a positive direction to at least some degree - he sounds like he's feeling a little better and while he may still not be eating, at least pooping means he doesn't have a full blockage and as long as you're syringe-feeding him regularly you can prevent him from developing GI stasis before you can get him to the vet. You caught the lack of appetite very early, which makes a BIG difference and makes it possible to prevent a small problem from becoming a life-threatening one .



PeytonCara said:


> He gets all tense once he sees me, he totally knows I'm going to pck him up and force feed him.



Have you tried explaining to him that if he'd eat his regular food on his own, then he wouldn't have to be syringe fed?  It's worth a shot, anyway - I swear they understand far more than you might think if you look them in the eyes and talk to them like they're humans.

At the very least, I would talk to him as though you expect him to understand as you syringe feed him and such - the way a parent would explain to a child - why you're making him consume "icky stuff" and how what you're giving him is going to make him feel better. It doesn't matter that he probably won't actually understand your words - it's your tone that will reassure him and help him feel like you're trying to make him better .


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## PeytonCara (Dec 30, 2013)

I think the fact that he is pooping has been the thing that has kept me calm the most this whole time. I'm not sure how he has energy to run around with the lack of food he has had, I guess the critical care is doing the job though! 

So I woke up to call the vets and give him his morning feed, and the vets said our vet isn't in today and no one else can see him.. 
Should I go somewhere else? I don't think this needs to wait another day.

Also when I woke up, he was eating hay on his own. I saw two or three pieces go down, and then he ran to his water bowl to drink. Should I still syringe feed him? Obviously a few pieces of hay isn't enough to sustain himself on, but when I pick him up and feed him he gets really upset and when he's upset he won't eat and I don't want to steer him away from eating on his own. Even before this if something doesn't go his way he won't accept a treat or anything, it's way of telling you he's not happy.. He'd be like "No I do not except your offering."

And yes, I do talk to him like that! Ahaaha my dad makes fun of me soooo much when he walks by and I'm feeding him  I think it makes him feel better too when I talk


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## Imbrium (Dec 30, 2013)

If you can check in on him hourly or so, then I would watch his food intake carefully - there's a good chance you'll have to syringe feed still, but if he's eating even a little bit on his own then maybe you could space the force-feedings a little further apart (which I'm sure everyone would be happy about!).

As for the vet... as the antibiotic continues to work its way out of his system, he may continue to improve on his own and it may not be an issue to wait another day. On the other hand, there's no guarantee of that and the syringe feeding pisses him off something fierce, which (as you mentioned) could potentially delay his recovery.

Honestly, I think you should look for another exotics vet who can see him today - if for no other reason, simply because I can tell what a HUGE weight will be lifted off of *you* once you've gotten him in to see a vet. The uncertainty, worry and constant battles over syringe-feeding are very stressful on a bunny parent; the sooner you're sure he'll be okay, the sooner you can actually breathe freely and start to unwind a little.


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## Imbrium (Dec 30, 2013)

PeytonCara said:


> And yes, I do talk to him like that! Ahaaha my dad makes fun of me soooo much when he walks by and I'm feeding him  I think it makes him feel better too when I talk



Just wait... one day, when he thinks no one is around, you may just catch HIM talking to your bunny that way!


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## Furry_Paws (Dec 30, 2013)

Like people are saying, some antibiotics can have "affects" such as loss of appetite, like JBun said.


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## PeytonCara (Dec 30, 2013)

He started licking me and he even just ate a few pellets. I think he is heading in the right direction My vet called me and pretty much told me the last vet did that I'm doing everything right and she wants to see him first thing in the morning tomorrow. Now that he is eating a little on his own I think I can wait one more day, unless he starts to take a turn for the worse then I will get him into something else open. I'm fortunate to have maaaannyy clinics where I live. I am gonna give him a little longer, I think I might just do what you said and space them out a little more. 

It stinks that this antibiotic has these side affects because he has hardly even sneezed even though he only took it Friday!

And Imbrium, my dad acts like he's all big and bad but he is actually a sweetheart, it wouldn't surprise me if I caught him talking to him too one day  I remember when I first brought Crixus home he was sooooo mad, and then a week later I came home from work and he was snuggling with him on my bed. He even texted me from work today asking how he was doing today


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## JBun (Dec 30, 2013)

I'm really glad he is starting to feel a little bit better. That Zithromax must be some pretty serious stuff! It is too bad that it has the side effects, because it sounds like it works really well on certain bacterial infections. I have read of Marbocyl being used successfully for URI's. Sometimes using two antibiotics together, will be more effective too.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Respiratory/Bacterial/URI.htm

Some things that I've read about being used to treat rabbits with URI's in the UK, are also using Bisolvon(thins the mucous secretions to help aid in clearing the stuffiness), metacam to help reduce nasal inflammation, and nebulizing with sterile saline. Also some people have added Echinacea drops(no alcohol) or dried coneflower, into their rabbits diet to help boost their immune system. And reducing dust from hay and bedding will help as well. You can ask your vet about these things. I believe we don't have bisolvon here in the US, but I'm sure we have a similar medication. If your vet isn't familiar with using these treatments, she may have better luck finding out about them by checking with UK rabbit vets, as some of these treatments seem to be more common over there. The UK seems to be a bit more advanced when it comes to rabbit medication and treatment. I think because rabbits are a much more common pet there.


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## PeytonCara (Dec 31, 2013)

I'll have to ask about the marbocyl. We just got home from the vet, we got a probiotic (benebac) and she said she wants to stay off of antibiotics for a while. She also prescribed me some baytril but said not to use it for a week or two. He's lost 4 ounces since our visit on Friday! She pretty much just told me syringe feed him 3 times a day until he starts eating like he normally does. She said we could talk about alternative antibiotics after we get him back to normal, plus she didn't even charge me for a visit so I saved some money too! That's always a plus.


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## PeytonCara (Dec 31, 2013)

And heck, I've always loved the UK, looks like I might have to pack up and leave with my little guy


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## Imbrium (Dec 31, 2013)

I'm glad the vet visit went well... and especially glad she gave you benebac for him - probiotics are SO good to give when giving antibiotics and they can often be helpful with stasis issues in general.

For what it's worth, there are some vets in the US who treat more like UK vets - my vet in San Antonio stays *very* up-to-date on what's going on in the UK veterinary world .


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## JBun (Dec 31, 2013)

I'm glad it went well, and even better that there was no charge. I'm sure she felt bad that your bun got sick from the meds. Hopefully your bun will be back to his usual self soon.



Imbrium said:


> I'm glad the vet visit went well... and especially glad she gave you benebac for him - probiotics are SO good to give when giving antibiotics and they can often be helpful with stasis issues in general.
> 
> For what it's worth, there are some vets in the US who treat more like UK vets - *my vet in San Antonio stays *very* up-to-date on what's going on in the UK veterinary world* .



Lucky! I wish more rabbit vets did this.


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## PeytonCara (Jan 2, 2014)

Yeah I think she felt bad too. But I'm glad it all worked out. His appetite is pretty much normal now. He just needs to gain his weight back. I would really like to thank each one of you for your advice! I always get such a piece of mind when I come here. Thank you all


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