# How old is too old for a first litter from a lionhead doe?



## CiaraPatricia (Sep 9, 2010)

Hi 

I have 2 lionhead does who are about 6 months now. I thought they might be pregnant after my male accidentally got into their cage over a month ago, but they weren't. Now I think it might be a bit late in the year to breed them, because it might be too cold? (I live in Ireland, so it doesn't get that cold, but being born in October is quite later, and I don't even know if they would get pregnant this time of year.)

I could breed one of them now, but not the other, as the only male I have right now is her dad and I don't want to breed them together.

So if I breed them in the spring, will they be too old? I read that rabbits' breeding season starts in January, so if I breed them then they'll be still under a year when they give birth, is that ok?


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## Wabbitdad12 (Sep 9, 2010)

No, they would not be too old. I think that it is not recommended after they are 2 years old. The older a doe gets, the less flexible the pelvis is.


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## CiaraPatricia (Sep 9, 2010)

Thanks 

I thought maybe over 12 months was too old, but they'll be under 12 months anyway.


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## leo9lionheads (Sep 9, 2010)

There is little luck with breeding lionheads after a year old, if they do get bred there are often high fatality rates if not 100% the first litter and after that there still can be problems. 

I live in Michigan where we often get to the mid teens throughout the winter and I breed through the winter always and my rabbits are kept in our unheated but insulated garage and have very little problems. Often times I breed my does that I showed at 8-9 months at the latest.


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Sep 9, 2010)

If this is their first litter, you should try to breed them for the first time between 6-8 months old. If you wait longer, you run the risk of kindling complications.


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## Shaded Night Rabbitry (Sep 9, 2010)

while you run the risk after 8~12 months, i'll say that I started up at 1 1/2 ~ 2 year old ND doe.

Well. I guess I didn't get much outta her. Got a dead baby for the first litter, two live babies for the second, and gave her to someone else to try. Over there apparently she's been having dead litter after dead litter. (Why they keep breeding her, I have no idea.)


Don't worry about breeding daughter to dad. It's actually a very nice cross. I would prefer to hear that you bred them together, to at least get her started, and then breed her again in spring to someone else.

And I prefer to breed in winter. it's a lot easier to keep kits warm than it is to keep them cool. You can always add more fur, but you can never take away all the heat around them. And I'd be concerned with trying to use ice in the next box or somethign to keep them cool. Even misters might be a little... Out there. But who knows. I'm a newbie. =D


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## CiaraPatricia (Sep 9, 2010)

Hmmm, well maybe I should breed them now then. I guess I could use some microwavable heat pads in the nests to keep them warm, if I thought it was too cold. 

To be honest, I'd prefer to lose litters born this year, than to lose my does in the spring if they had complications. Though hopefully they'll be ok anyway.

I hope it won't get too cold . . .

I wasn't planning on breeding the daughter and dad, I meant to get another male by now but couldn't find one I wanted yet. And then once I thought she was already pregnant I didn't bother trying to find one straight away . . .


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## Sabine (Sep 9, 2010)

I am planning to breed all my does in about a weeks time or so. Similar logistics about one of them probably going to be a bit old by next spring. I wouldn't worry too much. as long as your hutches are well insulated they should be fine.


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## CiaraPatricia (Sep 9, 2010)

Thanks Sabine, I was just going to go over to irishrabbits to ask for an Irish opinion, so that was handy!

They live in a shed and have hutches inside, so hopefully that'll be ok. I'm buying a couple of snugglesafe heat pads for my guinea pigs to use (they won't need them for a couple of months I think, til it gets very cold) so I could use them for the kits when they're born.

I'm so excited now


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Sep 9, 2010)

Just be sure that whatever warmers you use don't fry the babies! Kits are very sensitive to changes in temperature.

With that said, I've had plenty of litters born in the winter which did just fine. Don't worry about it- let your does' instincts take over. They will pull enough fur. And if not, hey, at least they're started!


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## Blaze_Amita (Sep 9, 2010)

When I lived in New York I heated by barn to about 40 degrees-basically enough to keep my water bottles thawed and not freeze my fingers when grooming and clipping the bunnies, but I've always bred at 6-7 months old for initial litters. I've only had one doe get bred at 5 months and that's because she had escaped her turnout pen under the wire and into the bucks turn out pen :rabbithop
Last time i ever used that turn out pen like that! 
Anyway. Good luck with the breeding!


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## TinysMom (Sep 9, 2010)

I've bred lionheads for the first time when over a year old - its not recommended but I didn't know it at the time - there were no complications. 

Why not breed back to dad for the one doe? Its commonly done by breeders...


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## CiaraPatricia (Sep 10, 2010)

Yeah I'll be careful with the heatpads. Like I'll put them under half the nest or something, underneath the hay or whatever, so it isn't to warm . . . I'll see anyway.

And yeah I think I'll breed her back to the dad this time, but get another male for the next time I breed her.


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## CiaraPatricia (Sep 10, 2010)

Though now I dunno if I should breed her to the dad . . .


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## Sabine (Sep 10, 2010)

P.S. It might also be an idea to breed a proven doe at the same time (if available) so in case anything goes wrong you have a back up.
The only issue about breeding her back to her dad would be if you weren't be too sure about his background.


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## CiaraPatricia (Sep 10, 2010)

I have another doe who just weaned a litter about a month ago, so I could breed her too. I wasn't planning to breed her again til the spring, though she is in good condition and all so I'll think about it . . . she had two litters already this year though, so don't know if that's too much for one year.

Anyway, I put the two does with the buck today, and they really didn't want to mate. I left them with him for about half an hour each. I think one of them did mate with him eventually, but dunno about the other one, they might have. I'll put them back in tomorrow I think.


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