# 3 day old kit -- Need Advice ASAP



## MyBoyHarper (Mar 23, 2007)

We had four 3 day old kits come to the rescue.The mother died, owner was thrown in jail for animal neglect for a diff. situation, and the neighbor brought us the babies yesterday after she found them on the ground (they had fallen through the hutch wire).2 died overnight, 1 died about an hour ago. However, the one eating the best, and peeing nicely, is still alive.

He's not eating too willingly, but he's taking some. Maybe 2cc's, but better thannothing. Here's some pics of him, I want to know if he looks full for the night. He's had 2 feedings today, he had his second about 5 minutes ago. I made him pee by doing the cotton ball method, and we had a nice little puddle.

Also, I have him in a 10 gal. tank to help with the warmth, with a heat lamp (red glow for nocturnal) on the other side of the tank (not directly on him, he's on the opposite side from the lamp). He's wrapped in bunny fur from a jersey wooley we shaved. He feels nice and warm,not too hot or cold, and he nice and wiggly. Does this sound good so far? He's also on KMR milk with colostrum, mixed with a little karo syrup (like one drop per 5 or 6cc's of milk) and a little benebac. All this sound good so far?

BTW, this is a domestic. A florida white, actually. Here's his/her belly, does it look adequate for tonight? Can someone show me an example of a full belly and a sunken belly in a newborn, so I can have something to go by?


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## polly (Mar 23, 2007)

Hi i am so sorry about the other babies i don't have as much experience as a lot of the other breeders on here but he looks pretty good not too wrinkly if the skin looks very wrinkly they haven't had enough or need fed. i did read on one of the posts somewhere though that when hand rearing they seem to need fed every 2-3hours don't know if thats right but when we have had to hand feed we certainly feed more often than if they are with mum.they don't seem to get as much good luck i will cross my fingers Pollyray:


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## TinysMom (Mar 23, 2007)

Personally, I think the kit looks good - but I don't think I'd have it be done for the night. I'd give it more around11 pm or so. I think better to be safe than sorry.

Somewhere it has recently been posted how much to feed orphaned kits at what age - I'll try to find it and put the link here for you.

I will say this - I've never had good luck trying to raise kits from a bottle. If your shelter knows of ANY breeders - the best option would be to see if they would foster the kits. Even a lionhead could raise a kit like that I think....

Peg


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## TinysMom (Mar 23, 2007)

I never add acidophilus I don't know where to get it..

~~~~

From an animal help website:

Baby rabbits should be fed Kitten Milk Replacer (KMR), which you can buy at pet stores, or sometimes even a local veterinarian's office.Unless you are familiar with and skilled at tube feeding babies, use an eye dropper or sterile oral syringe, which can be purchased at most pharmacies.

Feed baby rabbits no more than twice a day. Baby rabbits normally feed only ONCE a day, but you're not mama and the KMR is not as caloric as rabbit milk---so if baby does not take in the total amount quoted below in one feeding, you may split the feedings in half, AM/PM - but no more frequently as it can cause severe gastrointestinal distress. Overfeeding is a leading cause of death in infant rabbits. 



*Newborn *
_* 5 cc KMR plus 1/2cc acidophilus *_

*1 week old *
10-15 cc KMR plus 1/2cc acidophilus 

*2 week old *
26-30 cc KMR Plus 1 acidophilus 

*3 AND 4 weeks old until weaned *
30 cc KMR plus 1cc acidophilus (You may wean at 4 weeks of age) 



Baby rabbits feed from their mothers while lying on their backs. You may loosely wrap baby in a soft face cloth or hand towel and lay it on your lap or in the crook of your arm. If bunny will NOT eat this way,of course, do the best you can. It is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL to let the baby eat at it's own pace---especially if it is not suckling from you(i.e. if you are using a dropper or syringe to feed it...). If you squirt the liquid in too quickly you can aspirate (get liquid in) the lungs and the rabbit will suffocate.

After each feeding it is important to make the bunny defecate and urinate to keep the intestinal tract and urinary system running smoothly. Use a soft cloth or a cotton ball moistened with warm water and gently stroke from between the bunny's front legs all the way down over the anal area until the bunny starts producing stool and urine,and keep stroking until the bunny stops. You are replicating the behavior of the mother rabbit who would lick her young to stimulate them to go to the bathroom (as well as to keep the nest clean). The stool will be soft and may be varying shades of green and yellow. Be sure to clean baby's mouth with a damp cloth or paper towel, so that no milk dries in the hair. 

Baby rabbit eyes open at about 10 days of age. You may start introducing them to hay and pellets at this point, but no veggies or fruits yet. Just leave some hay and pellets in a corner of the box where the babies can easily get to them. Make sure it the pellets are plain, high fiber and fresh, with no added "goodies" such as dried banana chips or seeds. Don't ever leave a deep water dish in which a baby could drown; instead, use something shallow and rinse and fill it frequently.


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## binkies (Mar 23, 2007)

That is so sad! Best of luck with that baby! And btw, eeeeeeek that naked TAIL!!!!!


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## TinysMom (Mar 23, 2007)

I don't have photos and there are probably some here on the forum.

My take is he really looks about 1/2 full....like a kit would look halfway during the day if mama nursed in the early morning.

IF you can get him to eat and keep him alive - you will deserve a BIG ROUND of applause. It is really really hard when they're that young to keep them alive.

But I won't be surprised if you can do it!

Peg


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## Starlight Rabbitry (Mar 23, 2007)

I agree, he/she only looks half full.The belly actually juts out on the sides when they are full.I would feed him/her again tonight, then again in the morning.

Sharon


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## MyBoyHarper (Mar 23, 2007)

Peg and Sharon, thank you both so much for the advice. I will give him another feeding around 11pm. I wanted to make sure with y'all first, then I had read somewhere elsewhat Peg hadposted about if you feed them toooften they'll go into distress and that is what kills so many.

He still seems to be doing good. I am keeping a very close eye on him, constantly checking his temp -- he's still nice and warm and napping at the moment. The one that died earlier, I had a feeling wouldn't make it. He was very lethargic and was refusing to eat. This little guy is much more wiggly, and is taking the milk. Not too willingly, but definitely taking it.

I'll keep y'all updated.


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## TinysMom (Mar 23, 2007)

There are going to be folks who will say I'm wrong....and I may be.

I would hold him as often and as much as you can. Not so much for the warmth...but I honestly believe it gives them the will to live - to know someone cares.

Of course - if he passes - it will break your heart.

But he will have known he was loved.

Peg


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## MyBoyHarper (Mar 23, 2007)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> There are going to be folks who will say I'm wrong....and I may be.
> 
> I would hold him as often and as much as you can. Not so much for the warmth...but I honestly believe it gives them the will to live - to know someone cares.
> 
> ...


I have actually been holding him gently quite a bit today. No jostling,just sitting down and letting him (and the other one before he passed)lay cupped in my hand. My friend did it too for about 45 minutes, and was heartbroken when I had to leave. They really seemed to calm down too when they were being held.

I hope the little guy makes it. I know each day that he does gives him more and more of a chance of survival. I'll be estatic if I wake up tomorrow morning and he's still alive.


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## Haley (Mar 23, 2007)

You can get acidophilus at the drug store with the vitamins/minerals. Its an immune booster (like echinacea). Ive heard of breeders using it for babies. I use it for Max to help boost his immune system.


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## MyBoyHarper (Mar 23, 2007)

He still appears to be doing good right now. I left for a few, came back home and found him wiggling around in the fur. He loves his fur. I'm glad to see him still active, I know that's a good sign.


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## TinysMom (Mar 23, 2007)

You can also use lint from the dryer trap if you need to (for warmth)....but I'd make sure you hadn't used fabric softner sheets in there..

Peg


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## aurora369 (Mar 24, 2007)

Here are some pictures for you MBH.

This is Tony at about the same age, a very very full little guy. This is the ideal situation:









Here's one from Wildfire's first litter. Good belly size, what I would be aiming for:






I agree about the being half full. But being half full is better than not being full at all. He'll get the hang of feeding. 

I would suggest trying to get a hold of jil101ca, as she is currently hand feeding as well.

--Dawn


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## MyBoyHarper (Mar 24, 2007)

Dawn, thanks so much for the pictures, it gives me a visual to aim for.

He's settling in for the night. His belly isn't full, but it isn't sunken either. His last two feedings had karo syrup and bene-bac mixed in with his KMR milk with colostrum. I'm hoping all this helps his chances of survival. He's currently nice and warm, not too hot but not cold neither. He's snuggled into his fur at the moment with the heat lamp still going. At the very least, I know if he passes, it'll be in warmth and comfort -- not cold and scared.

I have another question -- is it normal to hear a 'ticking' sound in their nose when they breathe? My friend (from the rescue) said she noticed it with all 4 last night, and I am noticing it with him right now. No wheezing or trouble breathing, just a ticking in his nose when he breathes. I was just wondering if this was normal, or an indication of something wrong.

Thank you all for the wonderful advice, it's been so helpful!


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## MyBoyHarper (Mar 24, 2007)

I killed him. :cry3:

I woke up and was so thrilled to find him alive and active and so eager for his breakfast. So I mixed his breakfast, and put some in the...thing I have. Called a lelet or something like that. He did fine at first, and even though he was drinking it, he inahled some and it came out through his nose. I know what this means, especially now that he's dead.

God, I feel so horrible. I know it wasn't intentional, and this is a huge risk with feeding any baby animal especially when they are picky drinkers, but I still feel so horrible. I felt like he had a chance.*Sigh*


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## TinysMom (Mar 24, 2007)

Oh MBH,

Please don't beat yourself up over this. It is VERY VERY VERY hard to not kill a baby. I've done it a number of times (tried to save kits)and wound up losing them - oftentimes the very same way even though I was going slow.

You have to remember that he might not have made it anyway. The odds were against it. Does that mean you shouldn't try? Of course not.

But it is really really hard to keep a small baby alive. I've tried it so many times now that I've lost count - and I've never been successful at it.

Peg*


MyBoyHarper wrote: *


> I killed him. :cry3
> 
> I woke up and was so thrilled to find him alive and active and so eager for his breakfast. So I mixed his breakfast, and put some in the...thing I have. Called a lelet or something like that. He did fine at first, and even though he was drinking it, he inahled some and it came out through his nose. I know what this means, especially now that he's dead.
> 
> God, I feel so horrible. I know it wasn't intentional, and this is a huge risk with feeding any baby animal especially when they are picky drinkers, but I still feel so horrible. I felt like he had a chance.*Sigh*


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## MyBoyHarper (Mar 24, 2007)

Thanks Peg I'm glad to know (well, not really glad, but... comforted) that you have had the same experience. At least I am certain it wasn't anything I've done wrong. I've did this before,many times (though not ones quite this young), so it wasn't due to inexperience. I really think instead of swallowing, he just inhaled.It's the only thing I can figure. I knew he had bad odds, I was just hoping for a great outcome (weren't we all, of course ). At least I can definitely say I tried.

Thank you all for the great advice, if anything, it made me feel like I wasn't alone and had knowledgeable people right there to help me so I didn't feel completely helpless.


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## Haley (Mar 24, 2007)

Dont beat yourself up, hun. You gave him a chance at life and did the best you could. From what Ive heard, it is very rare for a baby to survive without its mama or a surregate to get milk from. 

You did the best you could. The odds were just against this little one. ray:


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## aurora369 (Mar 24, 2007)

MBH, please don't feel bad.

You did your very best, but hand raising baby buns is very difficult. Even many of the very experienced people in my rescue will lose more than they can keep alive.

He may have already been too sick to survive. The ticking noise sounds like a respitory infection of some kind. It maybe why the others passed away.

I don't think a baby would have died so quickly from inhaling milk. Normally they would have to develope a respitory infection which would take a day or two. Which leads me to believe he was already too sick to make it in the first place.

You did your best, and he was warm and happy when he passed. Not cold alone and forgotten.

Binky free little one.

--Dawn


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## Starlight Rabbitry (Mar 24, 2007)

Sorry hun, you did your best. It is definitely hard. I have had a couple live but most die. It is easier if you have a doe to take the baby to for food. ink iris:

Sharon


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