# Humane Societies are SO uneducated sometimes...



## Yield (Apr 3, 2011)

[align=center]The place I adopted all three of my bunnies from- Michigan Humane Society- has a Holland Lop up for adoption and they're SERIOUSLY calling her an ENGLISH LOP. What the heckkk! At least they got the mini-lop right. :rollseyes


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## missyscove (Apr 3, 2011)

When I volunteered at my local animal shelter, they had breed posters up for dogs so they could make a breed guess on intake. Cats were all labeled domestic shorthair or domestic longhair (admittedly very few were anything else) but they didn't really have anyone familiar with rabbit breeds. Often I would relabel the cage cards for the buns with more specific breed guesses, especially if I found something was mislabeled as a dwarf. 
I've found that mostly with that kind of thing they're just scrolling through a drop down list and they know it's a lop of some kind but don't know what kind of lop and there's no option for just lop so they have to make a choice without knowing the differences between those choices.


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## Nancy McClelland (Apr 3, 2011)

Some places are run better than others. Found the HSUS here to leave a whole lot to be desired.


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## Bassetluv (Apr 3, 2011)

I ran across that twice now with our local Humane Society. They had a lop rabbit (looked like a minilop) on their adoption page and they were calling it an English lop. So I emailed them to let them know it definitely wasn't an E-lop, and included a description of what a true E-lop looks like.

Second time it happened, they had a rabbit on their adoption page and said it was an English lop...it was a black rabbit and the picture was so dark you could barely even tell it was a rabbit. Because I wanted to adopt an English lop, I called and asked them about the rabbit, asking them if they knew for certain it was an E-lop. "Oh yes", they said, "Definitely". I told them that I would like to come in and see the bunny, but wanted to make sure first the breed description was correct, reminding them that the last time they had advertised an English lop, they'd been wrong. Nope, they _insisted_ that this was an E-lop; even seemed insulted that I was questioning them. So I told them that I'd be in before they closed to come and see the bunny.

Now, to get to the HS from my work would take me at least an hour by bus (I don't own a car), which is why I wanted to be certain I was going to go see an English lop. So after work off I went, and it took me a bit longer than an hour by the time I the bus showed up and then travelled the route. So I finally made it, walked into the HS, and saw the bunny sitting in her cage...definitely NOT an English lop. This was a small bunny, I suspect a mini- or mini-cross; very cute, but not what I was looking for. Admittedly I was tempted to take her, but my heart was set on an E-lop, and I knew that this bunny would most likely be adopted out fairly quickly. So I sighed and went back home. Then I wrote them another email, this time including a BIG picture of Yofi, my own E-lop, saying, "THIS is what an English lop looks like. See the big ears? See the big nose? See the size of the rabbit?" LOL...I wasn't angry, just frustrated. But y'know, even now they still will sometimes have a bunny show up on their adoption page that says "English lop" when it's clearly not. :headsmack (Just like Petfinder...do a search for English lop and see what you get...)


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## irishbunny (Apr 3, 2011)

I guess they should be a little better at labelling the breeds right, but I feel like at the end of the day their job is to feed and care for that bunny that the owner didn't want. Their main concern is to care for it and they are so busy with all the animals there that the last thing on their mind is making sure that the bunny has the right breed written on the site. I guess those kind of things don't really bother me, but I can see how it could be an inconvience


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## Bassetluv (Apr 3, 2011)

> I guess they should be a little better at labelling the breeds right, but I feel like at the end of the day their job is to feed and care for that bunny that the owner didn't want. Their main concern is to care for it and they are so busy with all the animals there that the last thing on their mind is making sure that the bunny has the right breed written on the site. I guess those kind of things don't really bother me, but I can see how it could be an inconvience



Yeah, I do have to agree...the bottom line is that shelters provide a huge service for animals. I've always had kind of an off/on feeling toward the shelter here, as I felt many of their decisions, or the way things were done, weren't always the best choices. I did have to fight them to be able to adopt my dog (mind you, this was almost 14 years ago now), because at the time my son was away for the summer, and their policy was that every family member had to meet the animal before adopting. I understood the point, but at the same time, this dog was on the short list to be euthanized because she was going to be deemed *unadoptable* (separation anxiety...she was returned twice for destroying peoples' homes). I was in tears because they were going to choose to put her down over me adopting her, simply because my son was away. I saw a lot of things there when I was a volunteer that just didn't sit well with me (including a dog being euthanized because he broke the skin of a volunteer - long story short, two volunteers got two dogs that were being walked too close to one another...one dog lunged at the other, so one of the volunteers stuck her hand between the dogs and was bitten. Dog was euthanized on the spot.) So I do tend to sometimes vent about the HS here...and in complaining, can forget about the great things they do accomplish.

Anyway, yes, despite it all it's easy to forget just where the animals would be without shelters, just as it's easy to forget why the animals are there in the first place. A great reminder, irishbunny...


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## Korr_and_Sophie (Apr 3, 2011)

I do think the breed does play a part in the adoption precess and being able to ID breed well does help. The difference between a Holland and Mini lop might be easy to overlook, but a Lionhead and an Angora are 2 totally different breeds. Many shelters also base some breeds on the colour and/or pattern which doesn't help either. There are breeds that can have dutch markings (due to the vienna gene), but are not dutch rabbits, and a rabbit with eye bands is not always a hotot. For people looking for a specific breed, it can be frustrating to see a rabbit labelled as that breed and have it be something totally different. 

Probably some of the problem is that many shelters and rescues don't think that breeding is right, so don't really know the breed standards. I know a standard of perfection book is about $16 and would be goo to have to look up the breeds. Even a good website with basic breed info would be a good resource. 

I know that it can be hard for busy shelters to be accurate with breed ID's but they should at least try. Not every rabbit is a lop or dwarf cross, and not every dog is a shepherd, lab or poodle mix. 

I can understand when a dog is labelled as a lab mix rather than a pit bull as that can help them get adopted if the dog could be either. However, purposely giving the wrong breed to get an animal out seems wrong as it is deceitful and could even get that animals returned as it doesn't meet what the adopter is looking for. 

I realize that shelters are there to care for the animals, but they are also there to get them adopted into good homes. Good, accurate information is essential to getting an animal adopted. I know I would only go if I can see a rabbit on the website that I am interested in, so good info is what could make or break and adoption for me.


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## Pet_Bunny (Apr 4, 2011)

I volunteer with the rabbits at out shelter. I do the best I can to identify a breed and have changed some of the labels that the shelter listed for a rabbit. But sometimes I can get it wrong too. Almost all rabbits are not pure breeds that are at the shelter, but do have many features towards a certain breed.
Most people that come to the shelter for a rabbit aren't looking for a specific breed. They just want a rabbit for a pet. The last adoption when I was there, a family were deciding between two rabbits. The little girl held the first rabbit, and then held the other rabbit and said, " I want this one."


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## Yield (Apr 4, 2011)

[align=center]I know this.. I was just shocked that someone could put English Lop for a Holland Lop. They look so different. 

I am grateful for shelters and I love the shelter that got this breed identification wrong (I adopted all three of my rabbits from there) but it's just surprising I guess.

@Kate: Thank you, someone seeing what I mean!


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## Nancy McClelland (Apr 4, 2011)

OMG, I am not shocked at all. I went to the local shelter to look at a Lionhead and to see if they needed volunteer help with their bunnies. I asked to speak to the "person " in charge of bunnies as I wanted to volunteer and maybe adopt. They had me fill out a three page "employment" form and then cool my heels for almost an hour, at which time I was told that "that person" was in a meeting and not available now. I once again asked about volunteering and ""NOT" employment and got the ever popular "Oh!" Another 20 minutes and I told them I was out of time. "Oh, someone will call you"--that was more than two months ago and I'm still waiting for the dulcet tones of my phone to sound. I never got to look at any bunnies either. That was almost 50 miles of driving and a 4 hour hole in my day. So, as you may imagine, they are at the top of my "list".


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## Yield (Apr 4, 2011)

[align=center]Wow, that sounds horrible =/

You know another thing that bugged me when we were adopting Silas- they were like "Oh- yeah you can't have any more animals." We have two dogs and two rabbits besides Silas. So we were like WHAT?

Apparently 4 pets is the limit in South Lyon- but that's only our mailing address. Where we really live allows up to 6 pets. 

(Seriously- our house is two stories high, not including our basement. It's pretty large. I'm pretty sure we could house more than 2 dogs and three rabbits comfortably. Lol)


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## nermal71 (Apr 6, 2011)

The thing I don't like about some our shelters is what they charge for an animal. We went into one and they wanted 135 bucks for a 4 y/o cat. Ok I know it is expensive to keep an animal but honestly....it's 4 years old they did NOT need to fix it (I asked). And they are complaining about how long they have animals. I suggested she lower the prices a bit and maybe people could afford to adopt the animals. Kittens were going for almost 225 bucks. The woman looked shocked that I suggest the lower the prices a bit and maybe run some fundraisers to make up the difference and also to take advantage of donations from some of the bigger pet suppliers (PetSmart does alot to help shelters with donations of supplies). I just don't get it. I mean if you lower the prices the animals will get adopted quicker meaning maybe it won't cost as much to house them because you won't have them as long.


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## Jynxie (Apr 7, 2011)

I agree that a lot of shelters are pretty expensive.
But the one near me has cats for 50 dollars lately, they're usually 150.

What I don't understand is that they'll put them down before lowering the prices. It boggles my mind.


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## Bassetluv (Apr 10, 2011)

Here's what the Humane Society in my area charges for adopting:

Dogs: *$290.00*

Puppies: *$350.00*

Cats; *$150.00*

Kittens: *$205.00*

They also have a chart on their website that breaks down what it would cost a typical pet owner for the services rendered:

Assessment for behavioural issues, and veterinary health check (dog): *$107.00*

Standard medication for parasites (may include more meds if other parasites are found in the animal that require different type of meds) (dog / cat): *$35.00*

Treatment for ear mites, if present (dogs / cats): *$45.00*

Treatment for fleas (dogs / cats): *$9.00*

Upper respiratory issues, treatment (mostly in cats; they posted that 46% of all cats entering the shelter have resp. issues): *$47.50*

First vaccinations (dog / cat): *$27.50*

Microchip, mandatory (dog / cat): *$60.00*

Sterilization, dog: *$350.00*
Sterilization, cat: *$250.00*
*If the animal cannot be spayed/neutered before it is adopted out, the shelter provides a voucher for an $80 refund to the new owner, as long as they have the pet done within the first 6 months of ownership.

Coverage for pet insurance: *$34.00*/6weeks coverage (*$56.00*/8weeks coverage) 
*The shelter gives the new owner approx. 6 weeks of pet insurance when they adopt.

The prices they display are said to reflect what this would normally cost a new pet owner. Most of the services listed are done on the animals, by the shelter, prior to their adoption. So, while the shelter would not pay out those amounts per animal, they still would be spending a tidy sum on each animal who enters their doors...and this doesn't include the cost of feeding (some food is donated, but not enough to cover all animals, all the time), the rent/taxes on the building, lights, heat, staff wages, etc. 

I used to think too, that shelters charged what seemed like extremely high prices for adoption, but when it is all broken down, I believe they are more than justified in what they charge.

***I should add on the cost of adopting bunnies at the shelter here. For "large, white rabbits" it is *$20.00*. For "fancy rabbits" it is *$30.00*. For a sterilized rabbit: *$80.00*.


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## nermal71 (Apr 10, 2011)

*Jynxie wrote: *


> I agree that a lot of shelters are pretty expensive.
> But the one near me has cats for 50 dollars lately, they're usually 150.
> 
> What I don't understand is that they'll put them down before lowering the prices. It boggles my mind.


Exactly. I know it costs the shelters alot...but if you have the option of taking a loss on that animal and adopting it out for less....or putting it down and still taking a loss if not a greater one because you had to put it down AND you didn't get any adoption fee it seems foolish to me.


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## Yield (Apr 10, 2011)

Bassetluv wrote:


> ***I should add on the cost of adopting bunnies at the shelter here. For "large, white rabbits" it is *$20.00*. For "fancy rabbits" it is *$30.00*. For a sterilized rabbit: *$80.00*.



[align=center]That is SO wrong! They're practically discouraging people from getting a sterilized rabbit! Despite how uneducated Michigan Humane Society can be, I like them for the fact they practically pay YOU to get your rabbit fixed. Rabbit prices for sterilized rabbits there are 20-30 dollars.

I dunno how much it is at Huron Valley... hmm..


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## Bassetluv (Apr 11, 2011)

Yield wrote:


> Bassetluv wrote:
> 
> 
> > ***I should add on the cost of adopting bunnies at the shelter here. For "large, white rabbits" it is *$20.00*. For "fancy rabbits" it is *$30.00*. For a sterilized rabbit: *$80.00*.
> ...



While I agree that all animals _should_ be sterilized before adoption, the shelter here doesn't do so with rabbits, I suspect, simply because (unfortunately) there just is no demand for rabbits as pets. A great majority of bunnies who pass through their doors don't get adopted out, due to lack of demand and space issues at the shelter...it's woefully small. However, I believe the Toronto Humane Society does sterilize rabbits before putting them up for adoption, so I'm not sure exactly how it works...you know, the funding and issues that go on behind the scenes. There have been several times in the past years where the shelter here was faced with closing down their doors because they didn't have the funds to keep running, and major fundraising events managed to have them skim by and keep going (or so it has been reported), so taking a constant loss on animals would most likely close their doors. (This, of course, is if all reports on the shelter's operating finances have been accurately accounted.)

When I got Yofi, it cost me $263.00 to have him neutered at the vet's, so at $80.00 from the shelter for cost of animal and sterilization, it's really a bargain. I paid just over $80.00 for Anna, who came from the shelter and was spayed before I took her home (I requested it). I do agree, as I said, that ideally the shelter should be spaying/neutering all rabbits before putting them up for adoption, as adopting out unsterilized rabbits can potentially create even more rabbits being returned to the shelter. But I think it's kind of a catch-22 here because of constant lack of space and less demand. Maybe the shelter in Michigan (and the main HS in Toronto) manages to get a much better deal with their veterinary arrangements than here. Perhaps the number of adoptions are higher based upon population. Again, without knowing the behind-the-scenes finances, I just don't know. 

The shelter here has raised an enormous amount of money in the past two-three years (they held a HUGE campaign to help the shelter out, got some financial institutions and well-known local celebs involved) and is now in the process of relocating to a much larger facility, so maybe this will affect the way things are run, such as pre-sterilization of rabbits. Only time will tell.


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## Bassetluv (Apr 11, 2011)

nermal71 wrote:


> *Jynxie wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I agree that a lot of shelters are pretty expensive.
> ...



Unfortunately, shelters are businesses, and taking constant losses would eventually shut them down. There's a lot of things I don't agree with when it comes to the shelter in this area, some practices that I don't care for, but at the end of the day, would they be able to continue running if they didn't operate from a business standpoint? Not saying I care for it any more than anyone else - but operating as a business often means having set rules about prices, placement, etc. Sometimes, yeah...it really sucks.


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## Jynxie (May 21, 2011)

Ugh, I just found an ad from our local animal shelter on a website similar to craigslist stating they have a bunny (looks like a young flemish mix) that bunnies are REALLY EASY to care for.

They just got a mouthful from me.

They also stated they THINK the bunny is 11 months old, it looked a lot younger to me. So the bunny is probably going to get bigger too.

They also weren't fixing the bunny. >.>

Grumble.


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## Marrie (May 21, 2011)

Most shelters don't know much about rabbits, because, frankly... they aren't as popular as dogs/cats and the people who work there have never had a house rabbit. My humane society had hired a person who was rabbit knowledgeable but the person quit - leaving them with.. exactly no one who knows about them. The people left try their best, but without the knowledge, they just don't know. Most rabbits get listed as "American Mix", they don't even have rabbits on petfinder since their rabbit person quit. 

They don't sterilize at our HS either, since their vet is only able to do dogs/cats, not exotics. They do offer you a free office visit when you adopt, but their vets aren't rabbit savvy, so not too much use. They have low adoption fees ($10 for a rabbit) and don't euthanize exotics. 

In the end, the extreme volume of animals going through shelters is staggering and they are usually understaffed and underfunded. I would LOVE if everyone got training on all the animals their shelter takes in, rabbits, ferrets, etc. But the funds just aren't there for that training, especially with the high turn over rate shelters face (if you are an animal lover, it is hard to watch so many get euthanized day in and day out). Our HS is the only place for rabbits to go within 30 miles - else the get turned loose, or worse. 

Would it be easy to look up a chart of rabbit breeds online if they don't have one? Yeah, sure. But, I repair computers in my spare time and after so many seemingly simple things being so complicated to people, do I expect someone to find something like that via a google search? Not really. Even the people who work on MS office, or need to use a computer for things at work, call me over to find them something via google, update their drivers, or run adaware/norton because they just can't figure out how to run the scans. 

Are some of the shelters doing harm to the animals they try to help? Yes, some out of ignorance, some out of neglect. The neglectful ones can be reported, the ignorant ones hopefully will listen to advice from a volunteer, though pride sometimes gets in the way of that, sadly.


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