# How is this different!!! **Rant**



## MyBoyHarper (Jul 19, 2006)

I understand human life is human life. However, to me ALL LIFE is life. I've been reading an article about some murders after Katrina. These doctor's euthanised some sick patients in a hospital after they couldn't be rescued.

One person in the article said:

"Euthanasia is something you do to a horse, or to an animal. When you do it to people, it's called murder." 

How is it different!!! Horses and animals feel just as much pain, why is their life so much less when it comes to killing an animal. Why, because they can't speak and TELL you they are in pain?!

Let me tell THEM something. I live in south Louisiana, I went through Katrina, and I went through the clean-up afterwards. There were animals that were tied up in highschools because their owners couldn't bring them. Some sat there and drowned, while others were shot to be put out of their misery. Want to know what was done about it? Nothing, because it was deemed'mercy' to put them out of their misery. WRONG!

It's not right to take a human's life. And it's not right to take an animal's life. But I've heard that STUPID QUOTE said so many times, that it is okay to kill an animal, but it's murder when done to a human.

Bull----. 

Okay, I'm done now.


----------



## MyBoyHarper (Jul 19, 2006)

P.S., if I've offended anyone with the post, I'm reaaalllyyy sorry, not my intentions at all.


----------



## ilovetegocalderon (Jul 19, 2006)

Well, I gently disagree. I believe human life holds more value. I understand where you're coming from but - well, let's just throw this out there - have you ever squashed a bug? If you want to put animals and humans on the same level, you have to put mosquitos and ants and fishon the same level. Do you eat meat? I think we can all agree its morallywrong to eat another human, but not meat..well it became meat by someone killing the animal....just another perspective i thought i'd throwoutthere...don't get me wrong though, i love my animals, especially thebunnies but when it all comes down to it, i hold human life at a much higher value.


----------



## MyBoyHarper (Jul 19, 2006)

Actually, let me re-phrase it, cause I think I ranted wrong, LOL.

I hold human life at a much higher value too. It just upsets me when someone makes the comment that killing is okay for animals, but not for humans. It's not okay for humans OR animals.

I do agree about the bugs and fish. It just upsets me that it's okay to torture and kill a rabbit or dog or cat, and only serve a year or so, but it's different for a human murder. I think the penalties should be about the same, ya know.

Then again, I have a lot of flaws in my statement, I assure you. I was just ranting over that one quote and the way it was stated. 

I'm a little :crazinesstoday.


----------



## MyBabyBunnies (Jul 19, 2006)

See I look at it in a different manner. They can put an animal out of its misery when it is sick and dying but people have to suffer through the pain. I know my Grandpa was in a lot of pain when he was dying of bone cancer yet there was nothing we could do but sit and watch. There was no hope in curing it and sometimes I wish that people could be put out of there misery instead of being forced to suffer like that.

I don't agree with animals being shot and left to drown, but I would certainly euthanize them if I felt it was in their best interest. I think it should be the same for humans as well.


----------



## MyBoyHarper (Jul 19, 2006)

MBB, I agree with you.

Now, if an animal or a human was sick or dying, they should not be left in pain.

However, I'm just upset at some of the laws that allow people to torture rabbits and dogs and cats, and only get a slap on the wrist. While it's different with humans. Those animals feel just as much pain, and are just as scared, ya know?

I think I'm a little biased, because I've seen SO many animal abuse cases and nothing is ever done. I've seen people purposely run over a dog in the road, and purposely slam a brick down ona frog, and purposely hit finches with a baseball bat. It's sick, but none of these people ever got in trouble because "it's just an animal". That's the part that hits me.

People can tell you when they are in pain or scared or nervous or hurt. Animal's can't. Domesticated animals depend on people to take care of them, and figure out when they are sick and hurt, and depend on them to make them better.


----------



## MyBoyHarper (Jul 19, 2006)

BTW, I'll use Harper as an example. He's an abuse case. Before Harper was rescued by me, he came from a 'breeder farm' where they bred animals for snake food and human consumption.

Harper was hit with sticks, poked in the eye, hit in the head, and slammed against the sides of cages, all because he was nervous and would try to fight back when he was hurt. The more he fought, the more he was abused.

When he came in a couple days before I rescued him, he came in as snake food for a customer for their 16 foot bermese python. They couldn't find the phone number to the guy (because I threw it away, and no one knew that) to tell him his rabbit had arrived. The guy who brought Harper in brought him in by his ears, with Harper making a grunting, painful noise.

Afterwards, he was thrown into a carrier, where he didn't eat or drink for 2 days, because he was "a feeder rabbit" and it didn't matter. If he starved to death before the guy bought him, no one cared, he then they wouldn't have to take care of him anymore.

When they tried to go into the carrier to grab him, and he fought back, he was punched, the carrier was kicked with him still in it, he was slapped, and had water and soda thrown at his face to get him to "behave".

This isn't justice, and I'd like to smack every single person who did that to him. They should ALL be in jail. But because animal life is held in so low of a perspective, nothing was done because "it's just a feeder rabbit".


----------



## MyBabyBunnies (Jul 19, 2006)

I know. I watch Animal Cops on TV a lot and I agree. But things are changing in many places in the States and harder penalties are being slapped on people more frequently. Unfortunately, Canada has no followed suit as of yet.


----------



## dreamgal042 (Jul 19, 2006)

Theres a lot of quotes similar to that. There was one I saw on a billboard with a picture of a small baby on it, and it said 'kill me yesterday, its abortion, kill me today, its murder'.

I think what you're saying is not that animals shouldnt be killed, but that killing an animal should be done with the same (or almost the same) attitude as killing a human...aka, out of necessity or for the wellbeing of the animal..or something like that


----------



## ilovetegocalderon (Jul 19, 2006)

MBH - Oh my god, I'm so sorry to hear about what happened to poor Harper and I do agree that people who abuse and torture animals should face stiffer penalties. (MUCH stiffer)


----------



## MyBoyHarper (Jul 19, 2006)

dreamgal, you quoted me perfectly! Sometimes my points come out all jumbled up, I'm bad at that, LOL.

Calderon, I agree, the penalties should be much stiffer. Harper has a wonderful home now though, so I am thankful for that! The company where he came from was originally shut down 3 years ago for animal cruelty. The guy who owns it now is the SAME guy who owned it before! However he changed the name of the company, and the area's he distributes in, and was able to open up again somehow. It's sickening.


----------



## rabbit_whisperer (Jul 24, 2006)

Oh I agree both human and animal life is equal,neither,nor is more important or precious than the other.And I disagree that a human is more important than a animal. *frowns*


----------



## pinksalamander (Jul 25, 2006)

Well i have another thing to add.

When are they going to legalise assisted suicide? Assisted suicide and putting down an animal are kind of the same. Obviously animals can't ask for it, but when they are in that much pain sometimes we have to do it for them. They can't do it themselves so we should take responsibility.I eat meat, i'm against most extreme animal rights activists. I squash bugs. I don't ever want animals to be held in sucha high regard has humans because it would cause so many problems. Animals should be given respect but not treated the same as humans all the time.

My Grandad shot their puppy once. She got hit by a car, was only a few months old. She could only run in circles and pant. Half her face was hanging off. Vets was miles away. 

I do agree with what your saying about that quote though. I think:

If a person asks to be killed (not for depression, for a disease) they've obviously thought about it lots. If i get some horrible disease putting me in pain i wouldn;t want to live for much longer.

If an animal is ill,being their guardians we should take responsibility. The animal can't tell us that it wants to die so being its way of contacting with the world we are the ones that make the decisions.


----------



## AnnaS (Jul 25, 2006)

I almost cried reading what happened to poor Harper. I just can't stand any cruelty to animals or humans. Poor little guy. 
I know the world is biased and unfair. But just think about how humans are treated in other countries than USA and Canada. When I read what happens in China, how people get prosecuted for their beliefs. Also I heard so much about what happened to people in Russia during USSR. Its all makes you upset that people can be like that.

I am just trying to say that people get treated no better than animals, its just depends where you look and nobody gets punished for that.


----------



## pinksalamander (Jul 25, 2006)

I've only just read your "feeder rabbit" story.

Thats horrible.. i believe that snakes do eat rabbits and other small animals and its essential to them. I don't mind that babies are bred to be eaten. Its part of natural life.

I was watching Richard and Judy the other day (if you don't live in UK, its this little chat show thats been around for ages, this couple called Richard and Judy. A bit of a classic ) And they were talking about this special type of beef. I can't remember what it was called but it was japanese.

In Japan they belive that the animals that are killed for meath should have the best life possible. They got massages everyday and given cow friendly BEER and had beautiful fields to roam in. Even the killing process was done in order to cause minimal stress. The result from this was lovely meat. Because the animals had lived such a nice life they didn't release all the toxins caused by stress. 

As i said before, i'm fine with a rabbit or mouse being bred to feed another animal. I just wish they'd get the nicest life possible. The whole "just a feeder rabbit" thing is horrible. If i hada snake i would want to make sure all the babies i fed him had a nice life. No animal deserves cruelty, whatever they're purpose on this planet.


----------



## AnnaS (Jul 25, 2006)

Just to make it clear, it not part of a natural life, since in natural life mostly sick and slow animals get eaten and strong ones survive. Feeding all of the animals is not natural, its human made.
*
pinksalamander wrote:*


> I don't mind that babies are bred to be eaten. Its part of natural life.


----------



## pinksalamander (Jul 25, 2006)

OK, so its not completley natural. But would we rather the animal (snake) die because he is not fed. If we did not feed him he would die, and that would be considered animal cruelty.


----------



## ilovetegocalderon (Jul 25, 2006)

*pinksalamander wrote: *


> OK, so its not completley natural. But would we rather the animal (snake) die because he is not fed. If we did not feed him he would die, and that would be considered animal cruelty.


 

I dont think snakes should be kept as pets at all.


----------



## rabbit_whisperer (Jul 25, 2006)

*ilovetegocalderon wrote: *


> *pinksalamander wrote: *
> 
> 
> > OK, so its not completley natural. But would we rather the animal (snake) die because he is not fed. If we did not feed him he would die, and that would be considered animal cruelty.
> ...


 

I agree snakes should not be kept as pets they dont need a humans help not all of them,besides a simple fact is if you let a snake you it can catch prey by itself and live just fine. but rabbits are and should be pets they need humans for love,shelter and care.


----------



## Spring (Jul 25, 2006)

I agree, I don't like that statement either. I guess it depends on a situation. If an animal is in sevre pain and dying, I see no other option but to put it down. I also believe if a person is suffering from an uncurable disease, they should have the option to have an end to their life. I guess when you kill something, if it's abug or a human, in my mind it is murder. You're still ending it's life. Who cares what rank it has? 

I have no problem with feeder animals as LONG as they are treated like any other pet animal, and killed prior to being put in contact with the prey (Although I think some snakes only eat live food). I don't like exotic animals used as pets anyways. Most people don't know how to care for them, and get them illegally because they are 'cool'. 

Also, just to say, if you let a huge snake out in the wild, it will die. Either from temperature conditions or starvation. They will be used to being hand fed their prey and probably won't have the natural instincts. They also would probably be destroyed or removed from the wild by animal control because they can be a danger.


----------



## ilovetegocalderon (Jul 25, 2006)

*Spring wrote: *


> Also, just to say, if you let a huge snake out in the wild, it will die. Either from temperature conditions or starvation. They will be used to being hand fed their prey and probably won't have the natural instincts. They also would probably be destroyed or removed from the wild by animal control because they can be a danger.


That's why they shouldn't be pets in the first place.


----------



## Spring (Jul 25, 2006)

There was a story a few years ago with a stupid lady with a huge snake and small children, and the ministry of child welfare or something threatend to take the snake away because it was dangers. The lady wouldn't give her kids or the snake up. I can't find the newspaper article though, it was a few years ago..


----------



## ilovetegocalderon (Jul 25, 2006)

did they end up taking her kids or the snake away from her?


----------



## pinksalamander (Jul 25, 2006)

I'd personally never keep a snake as a pet, but some findthem interesting and i can't deny that someone would like them as a pet. 

Rabbits are really wild animals anyway. So you can't use the fact that "snakes are wild" as an excuse to not keep them as pets.


----------



## ilovetegocalderon (Jul 25, 2006)

There's a difference between wild rabbits and the ones that have been bred to be domesticated. Also, rabbits live happy lives with people owning them as pets (well, responsible pet owners). They love human attention. As far as I know, snakes do not. And snakes eat live animals. It is cruel to stick a perfectly healthy animal into a cage with a snake and make it suffer from fright until the snakes decides to eat it. Snakes don't love their owners like cats, dogs, rabbits, etc. I think they would prefer to be out in the wild. I know some people who would love to make a tiger their pet. But it's illegal. So should owning a snake. Just cuz people want to own one doesnt make it right.


----------



## Spring (Jul 25, 2006)

When they came to get the snake, she locked the door and had a machete. They agreed that she had to have the weapon in the room if the snake and the kids were together. I'm still looking for the story, we did a thing with it in Socials last year.

I guess that's a good point, but many of these exotics like the crocodiles (yes, I've seen people own them), huge snakes, turtles (although I think it's illegal to have a turtle now because salmonella poisoning), ect. are usually sold illegally. Rabbits also have been domesticated for thousands of years.


----------



## pinksalamander (Jul 25, 2006)

Yeah i know, i don't like snakes anyway. But i can still understand why animals are fed to them.

Anyway, Spring if you do find that article send it to me, i love reading things like that.


----------



## AnnaS (Jul 25, 2006)

*100% agree. They made a law where people can't keep pitbulls in Toronto because they find some of them dangerous. I can't imagine keeping a snake being not dangerous. What if it escapes and eats somebody's dog?

ilovetegocalderon wrote: *


> There's a difference between wild rabbits and the ones that have been bred to be domesticated. Also, rabbits live happy lives with people owning them as pets (well, responsible pet owners). They love human attention. As far as I know, snakes do not. And snakes eat live animals. It is cruel to stick a perfectly healthy animal into a cage with a snake and make it suffer from fright until the snakes decides to eat it. Snakes don't love their owners like cats, dogs, rabbits, etc. I think they would prefer to be out in the wild. I know some people who would love to make a tiger their pet. But it's illegal. So should owning a snake. Just cuz people want to own one doesnt make it right.


----------



## AnnaS (Jul 25, 2006)

Also on the topic, I don't agree that pets are treated worse than people. Its just seems like that. But if you look around the world, people are treated a lot worse.


----------



## BekasBunnies (Jul 27, 2006)

*MyBoyHarper wrote: *
"I do agree about the bugs and fish. It just upsets me that it's okay to torture and kill a rabbit or dog or cat, and only serve a year or so, but it's different for a human murder. I think the penalties should be about the same, ya know."

MBH, I only wish people who took human lives served that much time. Ask the victims of drunkdrivers how much time is served. The girl who killed my brother served 6 months in a rehab program. 

~BARB~


----------



## Cait (Jul 27, 2006)

Hmm... This is avery interesting conversation we have here. 

In regards to the original post... I agree, animals deserve respect and dignity in their lives. Whether that means being humanely euthanised when they are suffering too greatly or given a great life before they are made into hambugers, they deserve it. Humans also deserve this, and they, like the animals, rarely get it. 

As for the snake thing... I have mice and rats, I know what it feels like to dislike snakes and their owners. They swear up and down rats, mice, rabbits, other "feeder" animals do not show emotions. We, as owners of these animals we consider pets, know different. How can we, knowing what we do about our animals, say that a reptile is incapable of affection? Reptile owners say they too show affection, maybe not in cuddles or kisses, but a sort of reptile form of affection. Also, most snakes WOULD die if "released" into the woods somewhere.Most are human relient at this point. Most wouldn't have a clue what to do if set loose. I cant see a domestic pet snake (as domestic as snakes can get) being any different from a domestic pet rabbit besides the qualities that they offer to their owners. I think we're running into the "OMG you feed cute mice/rats/bunnies to your ugly snake!" frame of mind. YES they are cute, but what are they supposed to eat? Nothing? You would let an animal die because you deem it not as fit as your pet of choice? How is that any different from treating humans and animals the same? Its not. Apet is an pet, whether it be cat, dog, rabbit, or snake. They should have the same value as pets, and thats all there is to that. As for them being dangerous...Raised in captivity and born there, they should be just as docile as your bunny, even more so as they dont kick you or give you love bites.Unless they are a huge ret. python, I doubt they are going to eat a dog, or atleast a large one. Certainly not a person. If we use that school of thought, why do we even have dogs? A large one could turn any minute and eat your bunny. Or your cat. Or your baby. It CAN happen, doesnt mean it is likely or will.With proper supervision and handling, snakes are pretty safe for humans. I'm just saying. And I dont even like snakes, LOL!


Edit: Just noticed the statement about pits... Not going there tonight. *sigh*


----------



## m.e. (Jul 27, 2006)

Cait, thank you for sharing. Your POV was thought out and articulate


----------



## Spring (Jul 27, 2006)

Good points. The SPCA here is trying to put a ban on exotic reptiles because they're being sold illegaly to people who can't care for them. Some are even getting loose and abandoned from people who move or can'tcare for them.


----------



## pinksalamander (Jul 27, 2006)

Cait, you completley said i what i was trying to say.. but alot better.


----------



## Cait (Jul 27, 2006)

Anytime. It surprised me a bit because usually I dislike snakes very much, but I realize there are always more sides to the story thanmy own.


----------



## Emma.L (Aug 1, 2006)

I f a human stabbed another human they would be sent to prison even if the person lived after being stabbed, well i was reading these old newspapers yesterday and a german shepherd dog was stabbed in the head by the owners next door neighbour for barking to loudly. I was upset, but I read on and the dog survived! Plus the guy who stabbed the dog got 10 yrs in prison! So in this case animals and humans were sort of treated the same.


----------



## ilovetegocalderon (Aug 22, 2006)

That's a good point Emma. I think too what people should realize is that ppl who abuse/kill animals will often escalate to abusing/killing humans. A lot of serial killers start off torturing animals...


----------



## Jess_sully (Aug 23, 2006)

I know this is an old thread, but it was posted while I was on vacation, so I thought I'd share my peice:

As for euthanasia, I agree with it if the animal is in extreme pain and there is nothing you can do for them, for example if they have terminal cancer, or if they are so badly injured that it's only going to be a day or two before they'd die naturally. HOWEVER, I do not agree with euthanizing an animal if it has a good quality of life and someone can't afford a procedure! My father is a veterinarian, and so many people just say, "Well... we'll just get another dog." What does that say about the owner? My father has even taken in many pets that simply needed surgery to fix a minor problem and done it for free or a ridiculously discounted price, simply because he hates to see those poor, friendly animals go that way. I understand that you might not have the money, but almost all vets have payment options, and there is animal insurance, too. It's not like you'd euthanize your grandmother simply because you couldn't pay forher operation. In my eyes, animals should be viewed pretty much equal to family members. You shouldn't buy an animal if you know that you won't be able to pay for vet expenses in the future. 

I also think that humans should be able to be euthanized, if it is the patient's wish. I feel pretty bad for that doctor who was putting humans to sleep at their own wishes but is now going to prison for the rest of his life. He didn't MURDER anyone... he just granted them the thing they wanted the most. I know if I was in extremely bad pain due to some terminal disease, I wouldn't want to fester for a few months or even years! If I knew I was going to die, I would NOT want to be in pain for that ammount of time. I mean, they have pain meds, but then the person is usually not "really there" because of the drug dosage. I understand that it's hard for the family members to accept that their loved one wanted to be put out of their misery, but I don't think that qualifies as murder.


----------

