# Neighbor asked to borrow some rabbit pellets



## Leaf (Oct 20, 2008)

Havent been able to access the forum for a while so hopefully this post will go through :?



Early last week my neighbor asked to borrow some pellets for her husbands rabbits. I said sure and gave her some. Didnt think much about it.

Mid week she asked for more... 

Ok.

Friday morningthey had a major accident. She's hurt but not horribly. He's stillin the hospital.

Last night she calls me and asks if I could come over to help.

Ok.

Well, I'm not thrilled. Without realizing it I've been feeding the rabbits he takes deer hunting with him. If you can imagine, they don't go along for a joy ride.

One rabbit is left; she's terrified of it because it grunts, lunges, bites and rolls in the dog house it's blocked into. Everything smells like urine - terrible.

She wants me to feed and water the rabbit. Says not to worry about cleaning the mess because hubby's friend will come over to take the rabbit with him.

Not Ok!

I offer to take the rabbit IF I can keep it because I'm not caring for a rabbit just to send it to it's fate.

Dirty mean rabbit - not coming in the house since it came from who-knows-where and I dont need to spread anything so I hutch it in an extra cage on the back porch.

Come home today, run some errands. Let the dogs out, feed the cats. Feed, water, excersize my rabbits.

Go to the back porch to check on the newest resident, have a mild heart attack.

It has blood on it, not a good sign!

Take a closer look, get lunged at - open the hutch, move some hay, check the water - grab water dish out and see a MAJOR problem.

Not A major problem.... but 4.

Turn around, look at the rabbit - LOOK where the blood is and recount the problem.

9. *NINE*. 9.

Oh happy day. :banghead


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 20, 2008)

OMG! I hate people!


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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Oct 20, 2008)

Sounds like u have gained more than u were looking for. Well u know why the bunny was mean. I'm sure you'll take good care of your newcomers, just not mention it to the neighborers cause they might want them back.

:rabbithop:rabbithop:rabbithop:dutch:dutch:dutch:anotherbun:anotherbun:anotherbun
Whats a few more to the mix


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## TinysMom (Oct 20, 2008)

Oh my goodness.

I know you're not happy - but can I say that rabbit is SOOOO very lucky that it found its way to your home. 

Baby bunnies can be a lot of fun and while I don't encourage people to breed 'cause it can be expensive and heartbreaking - while they're there - enjoy them.

I know you'll find homes for them - even if some of them wind up getting into your heart and home.

I'm sorry about the doe being so aggressive ... but I'm betting once she gets used to you - she'll calm down.


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## Leaf (Oct 20, 2008)

I'm tired, cranky and had a rough night at work last night so this just really ... blaaah.

People suck. I'm a paramedic, worked a wreck last night local to the area. After all was said and done we all were wrung out. Turns out part of the wreck is at a shop/yard close to my house. Due to media attention it seems everyone wants to drive around and rubberneck.

Anyhow, my SLOW stupid computer is still uploading pictures but here is the doe. I dont know what kind of rabbit she is. White with red eyes, a hint of grey on her nose/ears/tail. Ears are rimmed with dark grey/black. Fairly large.


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## Leaf (Oct 20, 2008)

This is what the babies look like. I've never been around new rabbits but they all look ok. One may be small but it seems ok as well. It's the pink one at the top of the picture. They all have kind of big ears I think.









I made this for them to sleep in but I dont think its right. Im looking through the forum now and searching google as well.






I've read through the rabbitry section but havent given it a lot of thought because "it" was never going to happen to me.

Dont get me wrong, I love animals. Im not really resentful about this - Im just exhausted and was not prepared for this by any means.


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## mouse_chalk (Oct 20, 2008)

Oh, poor poor thing..... I guess that goes a long way to explaining why she is so mean! Besides being stuck in those awful conditions.... 

I'm glad she's safe with you now....

And OMG those babies!!!! :shock::shock: :inlove:

I hope that your neighbours don't get more bunnies to replace the other ones..... do they know about the kits?

You're an angel Leaf! :angel:


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 20, 2008)

**SQUEEEEEAL!* Look at all the babies! They are adorable!*

*Leaf wrote: *


> This is what the babies look like. I've never been around new rabbits but they all look ok. One may be small but it seems ok as well. It's the pink one at the top of the picture. They all have kind of big ears I think.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## TuckerBunz (Oct 20, 2008)

Oh my!! I'm glad that she and her babies are safe with you now! And it looks like just in time too!!


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## TreasuredFriend (Oct 20, 2008)

People are cruel, demonic, barbaric, and irresponsible. You'll need help with getting all those babies a truly good forever-home. Can you expound on the deer hunting not being a joy-ride comment?

For nest-like bedding, shredded newspaper with thin hay cover and even a soft towel or bath rug like shown here: Mari never objected. On the street, her babes were born on stiff ground with light filler-stuff. Didn't have a fancy maternity room.
http://www.linedgroundsquirrels.com/MariPhotoPage.html

I kept the towel there for a week (or more) until it needed a laundry cycle.

Uncaring people!! Grrr. Of course they wouldn't dream of getting rabbits spayed and neutered if they were going to end up .... (fill in the blank).

Leaf, you're an angel. Now, how can we help?? Mom will take care of them if she isn't stressed out. You'll need lotsa help getting 'em spayed and neutered though, and extra hands to help with their growing up.


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## werecatrising (Oct 20, 2008)

Oh, poor bunny. This may be a stupid question, but what do rabbits have to do with deer hunting?


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## TreasuredFriend (Oct 20, 2008)

Cardboard box with tall sides will keep explorers from wandering outside of mom's nursing circle.


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## TreasuredFriend (Oct 20, 2008)

It so sucks, Leaf, because from my experience the all white, plain jane colors, and all black aren't the first ones that a person will select. Maybe then it's a better thing because truly dedicated-responsible individuals will know those are the Overlooked beings.

How can we (or I) HELP?!?

Ditto, werecatrising.


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## TinysMom (Oct 20, 2008)

*Leaf wrote:*


>


I'm guessing she's a Californian....she's so pretty. 

I hate to say it - but I've developed a real fondness for Californians...I wish I could have more. I have three girls and two boys that I kept from Gracie's litter (basically the whole litter) and they just brighten up my days in the office. 

I have heard Cali breeders say that the does are mean and ornery - but I don't think they all are. Gabby was a hoot (RIP baby girl) and Gracie is just as sweet as can be....she's not a cuddler but she does like pets and has a gentle nature.


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## polly (Oct 20, 2008)

Oh wow I know its not what you were wanting but can you imagine what would have happened if she had gone out with them!! poor girl no wonder she is very grumpy!!

the babies look great she is doing a good job if you can do it if she isn't to nippy is pull some fur from her belly ( I know that may sound easier than it really is!!) it loosens with the pregnancy hormones and should come away fine it will help insulte them in the nest. The nest you have doen looks great though


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## TinysMom (Oct 20, 2008)

I just gotta say - I sure wish I could take the black ones - I bet they're gonna be pretty.

Of course - Art would shoot me as we continually say to each other "no more"...

But I have grown to really love Calis and Cali mixes..


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## superchar42 (Oct 20, 2008)

I'm trying to figure out what bunnies have to do with deer slaughter as well... so what, he brings the rabbits with him so if he can't shoot a deer he can at least shoot something? 

...sorry, I can't help but be angry about the situation.

The babies are adorable, and I hope everything goes well for them. If I was anywhere near I could offer to foster/socialize them but I can't.


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Oct 20, 2008)

*Leaf wrote: *


> Well, I'm not thrilled. Without realizing it I've been feeding the rabbits he takes deer hunting with him. If you can imagine, they don't go along for a joy ride.



I have to ask cause i am not exactly sure what you are talking about, but what does the rabbit have to do with dear hunting? I can tell by the post that i am ssssssooooo not going to like the answer but i dont know what you are talking about,lol. 

Leaf you are a wonderful person for doing this :hug:


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## lilbitsmom (Oct 20, 2008)

Leaf,

The babies and momma are so lucky to have found you! I am excited for you because babies are a lot of fun! We had three litters of babies born in the Midwest Shelter this summer and we go to bring them home with us and raise them.

It was quite a learning experience for me and my kids and we've loved every minute of it.

The nest you built looks really pretty good other than covering it up. Keep them as warm as you can. They should all stay huddled together and should not come out of the next for at least one week. They probably won't be very mobile until they are more like two weeks old.

I would try to keep them in a box with sides so they can't crawl out in case they do get mobile. They really need to stay warm.


Your momma bunny looks like a Californian. We have a couple of them at the shelter with that same coloring. They are such sweet bunnies so I'm sure once momma is use to you and settled down a bit now that she's had the babies she will be a very nice girl.

Just for your info, the babies may likely nurse until they are 8 weeks old, so you should really try to keep them with the momma as long as possible. We try to keep a litter together until at least they are 12 weeks old. It helps them develop socially too and is just good for them.

Good luck with them and I look forward to seeing more pictures as they are growing. Just wait until they open their eyes! You are gonna fall in love!!!!

Best wishes!

Laura


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## Pet_Bunny (Oct 20, 2008)

*Luvmyzoocrew wrote: *


> Leaf you are a wonderful person for doing this :hug:


The only thing I could think of a deer and a rabbit is Bambi and Thumper.


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## Bassetluv (Oct 20, 2008)

Well, I must say the mom is beautiful! She has such a pretty face, and yeah, I agree too that she looks like a Cal. I know you said she's pretty upset and aggressive, but can you hold her down long enough to pull some of her fur and line the nest, without overstressing her? That's what I would think to do (any breeders out there, correct me if it's a bad idea). The fur would help to insulate the babies and give them a comfortable nest.

I too was wondering why someone would take rabbits deerhunting, unless it's as somebody suggested...to be used if no deer show up. (I'm sure he wasn't taking them along for the company. :?) I'm just so happy to hear that this girl was rescued, and she's in loving hands. Bless you for that, Leaf. :hug:


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## EdieRabbitsMom (Oct 20, 2008)

Ohhhh the babies are just precious! My Edie is a Cali and she is such a sweet and well behaved bun. It took a few months for her to trust me, but now, she comes to me when I go into her bunny condo or outside pen and she will sit on my lap for hours and watches tv with me, while we "groom" each other. She LOVES to lick me and reminds me of a puppy dog when she gets started. Then she puts her head under my hand when it is my turn to "groom" her. 

Words cannot express how much I love that bunny. We rescued her from our neighbors when they left her behind after moving in a small pen outside in 95 degree weather with no food or water. It makes me sick how cruel people can be! But she is a happy and well adjusted bun now. 

Edie weighs 10 lbs, soCalis are pretty big buns, but I love it when people are shocked by her size. It cracks everyone up. BTW, you have earned a special place in heaven for taking in that bun and her little ones! God bless you for that!

Here is a pic of Edie...they look a LOT alike! Except for Edie's big dewlap!


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## gentle giants (Oct 20, 2008)

Leaf, the nest you made is fine, but needs some fur in it to keep them warm. If the doe will let you, see if you can pull any loose off her belly/dewlap. The hormones from birth will have made it loose and easy to pull. If this isn't possible, try using something like a Snuggle-Safe or heating pad set on low under the nestbox. From the pics, I would say she is feeding them, they don't look starved. Good luck with them...and I have to echo the same question as others-why would you take a rabbit deer hunting??


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## Dublinperky (Oct 20, 2008)

I can't believe that!I am so glad those babies were born with you not them. They probably wouod have killed them!:grumpy:Thank You for taking them in! I agree she does look like a cali but the behaviour is not from being a cali definatly. My cali does are so sweet and laid back. It is probably from not being handled much from birth.... I wish I could help somehow!:?

Aly!


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Oct 20, 2008)

That is so awful! Im very happy you took the doe and you saved 9 lives in the process! She probably got pregnant by one of the other rabbits in their with her. 

The babies are so cute! I love the black ones! Momma is gorgeous too...thought of a name for her yet? I'd say Angel....but if she doesn't act like one, maybe not. lol. Maybe you could call a baby Angel.....

Emily


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## aurora369 (Oct 20, 2008)

Wow Leaf, what a day! Congrads on the babies, enjoy them while you have them.

You should look at this thread:
http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=40364&forum_id=8 
Some good nest advice with pictures in it.

I like the nest you built, looks like it will work. Is it in a box of some sort box(shoe box, dish bin)? If not, that's the only thing I would do, is just transfer it to something with sides to help keep the babies together.

I also agree with Gentlegiants about the fur. If mom's fur won't come out easily, or she won't let you, you can try using clean cotton balls or clean dryer lint.

All the babies look fat and sassy to me. Make sure to take lots of pictures because they grow up so fast.

--Dawn


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## kherrmann3 (Oct 21, 2008)

My guess for the going rabbit along with him deer hunting would be "Haasenpfeffer". My dad hunts deer and the further you get from society, the weirder the food gets. That's just my guess (my dad hunted on some land with "red-necks" and they would hunt wild ones just for that purpose). Poor bun.

I am so glad that you have her (for now, even)! Those babies are too cute! *squee!*


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## MissBinky (Oct 21, 2008)

I still don't get the purpose of the bunny with the deer hunting but man is that bunny ever lucky to have found you! It's quite amazing that a spur of the moment decision you made thinking you were saving one rabbit, ended insaving TEN rabbits. Good on you :rose:


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Oct 21, 2008)

*kherrmann3 wrote: *


> My guess for the going rabbit along with him deer hunting would be "Haasenpfeffer". My dad hunts deer and the further you get from society, the weirder the food gets. That's just my guess (my dad hunted on some land with "red-necks" and they would hunt wild ones just for that purpose). Poor bun.
> 
> I am so glad that you have her (for now, even)! Those babies are too cute! *squee!*


ha ha ha now i have to ask what the heck is Haasenpfeffer? lol, wow that was a very long word to spell, and the first time i have ever had to type that,lol, i assume it is something to eat, or something you make with rabbit?


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## Leaf (Oct 21, 2008)

*kherrmann3 wrote: *


> My guess for the going rabbit along with him deer hunting would be "Haasenpfeffer".



Well put! I talked to some guys at work last night and it was simply explained: take frozen meat with you and you have to thaw it, take unfrozen meat with you and you run the risk of spoilage. The solution is to take live along for use as needed.

...



All 9 babies are doing well this morning. The Mom has pulled some fur for them but she had it spread out everywhere so I put it on top of the babies.

I showed one of my friends pictures of the rabbits (the colorful pic above) and she was quick to pick hers out... I don't know how that will pan out though. They have a long way to go yet and the human factor is always changing.

As for what you guys can do for the buns and I... you're great being here, lending helpful and insightful tips and personal experiences. I dont know what more I could ask for, but please keep an eye out for potential responsible homes. I dont want a situation like this repeated. 

I don't know if they can be sexed so young but I'm rooting for an all male crew because it'll save me a ton on neuters in the long run.

I'm not as irked about it today as I was yesterday but still... And naturally, I've tapped a lot of rabbit resources previously among friends, family and aquaintances so I really have my fingers crossed that these aren't extremely hard to place, especially with more of the "plain" attributes they show. The Mom is a REW, so I'm assuming the babies will probably be. No? Anyhow, that'll be another obsticle to overcome. Now what would be neat though is a red eyed black... no possibility though, is there?

I checked in on the crew as soon as I came home - to me it seems that the little pink ones have maybe a bit more white hair on them. The Mom was kind of protective of them though so I didn't poke around too much, just enough to get a positive 9-Alive head count.


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## pumpkinandwhiskersmom (Oct 21, 2008)

OMG!!!!! How incredibly lucky (fateful???) it was that that lovely bunny and her kits are with you. You are an angel! How are the little sweeties doing today? And how is the Momma? No wonder she was grumpy....I was grumpy the day before I had my babies, and I only had one at a time!!!!


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## kherrmann3 (Oct 21, 2008)

"Hasenpfeffer" is German for literally "hare pepper". It is a type of rabbit stew, I believe. I took German in high school! Whee! Plus, being from around Milwaukee, there are a lot of Germans here (my last name is Herrmann, who would've thunk German? lol). 

They are SOOOO lucky you got to them! I can't say it enough! Just don't be corny and name them after German foods (I've seen it done). Instead, go with something cute like Kaninchen (German for Rabbit) or HÃ¤schen (hay-sh-en (Bunny)).  lol

I could be wrong about coloring, but sometimes don't the kits get different colors as their hair comes in? I mean, the whites could possibly have different (lighter) colors on them, like blonde-ish or dusty-gray? Someone correct me if I'm wrong! Still adorable little fuzz-babies!


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 21, 2008)

Leaf, I know it's not right, but THANK GOD that you ended up getting her just in time!

Those precious little babies are just tugging at my heart. That little black nose on top of the heap is just adorable! 

I think Mom should be named BAMBI !!!


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## kherrmann3 (Oct 21, 2008)

Awww, Bambi. I like that! :inlove:

I vote for that one!


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## lilbitsmom (Oct 21, 2008)

Leaf,

A couple of other things that we learned over the summer with our litters was that momma bunnies don't like to nurse when you are watching. She should nurse maybe twice a day if they are lucky. If you can give her privacy that is the best. When our litters were very, very young (newborn) we would drape a sheet over the cage so it was nice and dark and private.

Momma began to feed more when she had more privacy. Make sure that the babies don't get wrinkelly. With one of our litters we literally had to hold momma on her back and put babies (one at a time) on her nipples to nurse because it was obvious they were not getting enough. You may have to do that, but hopefully not.

The other thing we did was make sure that momma had a lot of greens, hay and pellets. She is feeding so many other little beings that she needs more to eat than she normally would. Just be generous with her food.

I'm excited for you. I remember calling home each day (it was summer so kids were out of school) to check on the babies. I would get so excited to see them when I got home and hear about what they did all day. It is really a lot of fun all of the new experiences.

Enjoy them! They will grow terribly fast!

Laura


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## gentle giants (Oct 21, 2008)

There is one way to tell what gender they are now, but it can get kinda messy, LOL. If you can take a warm wet washcloth and gentlyrub their little bottoms until they pee, that will tell you--girls will dribble, boys will squirt--and boy do they ever!

:biggrin2:


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## LadyBug (Oct 21, 2008)

*Leaf wrote: *


> *kherrmann3 wrote: *
> 
> 
> > My guess for the going rabbit along with him deer hunting would be "Haasenpfeffer".
> ...



stupid people..................:nonono:

i'm glad the babies are doing good:thumbup


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## superchar42 (Oct 22, 2008)

*



Leaf wrote: take frozen meat with you and you have to thaw it, take unfrozen meat with you and you run the risk of spoilage. The solution is to take live along for use as needed.

Click to expand...

*


That disgusts me. But so does killing any animal. I just can't believe how horrible I feel reading that...


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## TreasuredFriend (Oct 22, 2008)

Ditto.

Fi-Bar peanut butter crunch chewy/nutty Granola bars. 
!Other food choices exist! - ! - !!!! 
To ignore the pain and suffering, raw killing of an animal is barbaric.

Leaf, you are a special human who wears a million invisible halos. You'll get tons of verbal support, insightful tips, and encouragement for going to see that deer hunter.

Hmmm, I know someone in Missouri, too, who may know of prospective homes.

{mom/kits}


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## Leaf (Oct 22, 2008)

Quick update, but no pics yet.

Bambi HATES me. She growls, lunges and boxes at me.

She's a good Mom I think. She's pulled a ton of fur out for them and I've added it to their nest. She doesn't put it with them but at least I haven't had to pull any out of her. I cringe at the thought.

All nine are still alive. I moved them around so the thinner ones are on top. Only two weren't all filled up when I checked on them.

I don't know how colors work but today I have 3 black, 5 white (one has darker ears I think) and one is a color that shines. Grey or silver I guess. 

She won't let me mess with them much and attacks me when I try to do anything. If I get near the big cat litter box that has their nest in it she's all over me even if it means she steps on the babies and makes them chirp and scream.


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## kherrmann3 (Oct 22, 2008)

I found some reading online about aggressive bunnies. They may not be specifically for bunnies who have recently given birth, but they have some good ideas here if your new "porch-guest". You may already know some of these, but heck, it's worth a try 

This isn't specifically for buns who just gave birth, but this is "Ballistic Bunnies 101" from the House Rabbit Society's page. Interesting reading, none the less.

"Some rabbits are so "mean" they seem more like predators than prey. These are the rabbits who chase you across the room and up into chairs, who sink their teeth into your tender limbs and refuse to let go, or who growl at you when you approach. They're the rabbits most likely to be dumped or put to sleep. Unfortunately, they're often the ones who have suffered the most in life because somewhere along the line they learned that humans, or life itself, is not safe. If your rabbit is neutered or spayed, there can be any number of reasons he's aggressive. If you just got him, he may be stressed out by the move. His last owner may have frightened him somehow. He may have never had much contact with a human before. Or, if he used to be a hutch rabbit, the noises, smells, and sights of a house may be overwhelming him. One of the best things you can do for your relationship with this kind of rabbit is to protect yourself. Wear gloves, long sleeves, long pants, and real shoes when you're around him. This will protect your flesh. It will also help you keep calm. If your skin is protected, you're not as likely to jump, squeal or flail your arms, all of which might provoke or frighten him more.

Now start playing detective. Watch him closely to see what provokes him. It may be your touching anything in his view. It may be the movement of your legs when you walk . It may be a certain sound--like a rattling newspaper or the vacuum cleaner. It may be your reaching out to touch him or feed him. Whatever it is, don't do it. He needs to learn that you're not out to get him.

Then turn on the charm. One of the key lessons that House Rabbit Society members have learned is that affection works wonders on psycho bunnies. Try acting like he's the greatest thing that ever happened in your life, despite the bandages on your hand and the boots on your feet. Give him a big hello when you see him. Greet his every act of aggression with good humor too. When he charges your arm, say "why hello, you little pumpkin!" while calmly removing your arm from his reach. If he growls and thumps, say, "yes, you're a BIG rabbit --I love that about you!" If he streaks across the room with murder in his eyes, simply say, "hey buddy, are you coming to see me?"

You can ruffle his fur, sing a little song, say a little prayer, whatever it takes to greet his bad temper with joy, affection, and calmness. *It takes courage, but if you have gloves and shoes on, you're safe. *If he looks like he's going to bite, put your hand on his head, but continue to be cheerful. You can try saying EEK too--but be careful with this. Some nervous rabbits are provoked by a high-pitched squeal.

Rabbits think in patterns; your job is to change the pattern, so he realizes that his approach provokes affection from you, not harm. Eventually he'll associate you with kind words, nice pats, and enthusiasm for his particular personality.

Your bunny probably won't change overnight. It can take weeks for a rabbit to learn to trust. But that's what's so rewarding, and so moving, about helping aggressive rabbits. Your not just changing his behavior; your changing his perception of the world. As you do so, you'll alleviate a lot of his suffering"

- From the HRS website - http://www.rabbit.org/faq/sections/aggression.html#extreme

:bunny18

This is from http://language.rabbitspeak.com/rabbittalk_anger.html They have some interesting ideas as far as rabbit body language goes. 

"One way to defuse an angry encounter is to start grooming yourself, wiping your face and running your fingers through your hair. This indicates that the situation really should not be all that serious, and that everyone should just chill out. Often the rabbit will respond by doing the same, to indicate it agrees. Rabbits can be good diplomats.

Some rabbits, generally those with a history of frightening experiences and the resulting distrust, are simply extremely aggressive. They may actually chase you around and clamp their teeth onto you without any obvious provocation."


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 22, 2008)

I love naming Leaf's bunnies! LOL! 

Bambi isn't so sweet huh? Well, I can't say that I blame her. She was raised by some creep! :X


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## gentle giants (Oct 22, 2008)

I would imagine that her behavior is a combination of being a new mom and previous abuse. Charity and Sophie were both that way when I got them, but after a spay and much hard work, they are now much better. Obviously, she isn't adoptable that way....If, after the kits are weaned, she hasn't settled down any, I might be willing to take her on if you want. The mean 'uns are kinda my specialty, LOL. Totally up to you, of course. I know you will have to deal with finding homes for the kits too.


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 22, 2008)

Bambi isn't mean, just misunderstood!


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## superchar42 (Oct 22, 2008)

Grooming yourself really does seem to put bunnies at ease. If you feel weird doing bunny actions, brushing your hair in front of them seems to be the same thing. Once I start doing it, if the buns aren't sleeping then they start to do it too. 

It's just like saying, "hey, I'm relaxed. Time to do my hair."


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## LuvaBun (Oct 22, 2008)

Oh Leaf, it seems these poor, unfortunate souls seek you out. This poor girl must be so distrustfull of humans, and what they can do. Hopefully, she will settle in time.

It sounds like she is being a real good mom - and to have 9 survive, after all she has been through is amazing. Good luck to you

Jan


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## gentle giants (Oct 22, 2008)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> Bambi isn't mean, just misunderstood!


Oh, I know that. It isn't her fault at all, it's the people who treated her so badly and made her afraid of humans. Sorry if that came out wrong.


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 22, 2008)

*No - I was just playing! She's mean in a sense but it's not her fault. *

*gentle giants wrote: *


> *Bo B Bunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Bambi isn't mean, just misunderstood!
> ...


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## MyLOVEABLES!! (Oct 22, 2008)

ooooh! cute cute loved the photos. I applaud you for taking that rabbit with you.

Lef deserves a clad from everyone!


:blueribbon::thanks::hugsquish:

grrr cant find the applauding emotion :shock:.. but there are hugs and a blue ribbon and a thanks :biggrin2:


You should take a day of from work if thats posible you sound tired..
Hope you, your bunnies, bambi and the lil ones are doingallrite



Prisca inkbouce:


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 23, 2008)

Leaf is definitely a hero to all animals. Her heart is enormous and those babies are so lucky to have ended up being born there.

I can't wait to see them grow.


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## MyLOVEABLES!! (Oct 23, 2008)

Bo B Bunny wrote:


> Leaf is definitely a hero to all animals.Â  Her heart is enormous and those babies are so lucky to have ended up being born there.
> 
> I can't wait to see them grow.Â





Cannot agree more?!


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## Flick (Oct 23, 2008)

You saved 10 lives, Leaf. That's a sterling day! 

You are proof that good people do exist.


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## Leaf (Oct 23, 2008)

Very sad here this morning. Bambi lost a black, a white and her little silver baby overnight while I was at work.


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 23, 2008)

Oh no  I wonder what happened?

I'm so sorry, Leaf.


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## kherrmann3 (Oct 23, 2008)

Awww, I'm sorry, Leaf. :hug: 

Even in their short lives they were blessed to be with you. :rainbow:


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## minirexmama (Oct 23, 2008)

I was going to say to try and pull some fur too.

What a lucky mama and babies. I know it's a lot to take on, but imagine what would have happened if they wuld have stayed there?!



Sorry some off the babies passed on-is she feeding them ok?


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## BlueGiants (Oct 23, 2008)

I'm sorry you lost some Leaf... please don't blame yourself. It's readily apparent that she didn't have a steady, well balanced source of nutrition while she was pregnant. I think it's a miracle the babies were born alive at all.

6is a good number for her to raise. She probably only has 7-8 nipple to feed with. :hug:to you.


(edited to correct the math... I suddenly can't subtract!)


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## superchar42 (Oct 23, 2008)

I'm sorry the babies passed away. :rainbow::rainbow:

They knew happiness with you though, rather than living their short lives frightened and scared of everything.


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## TreasuredFriend (Oct 23, 2008)

You cared enough to make their world a better place.

The fact that you felt sad when their short life came to an end speaks volumes.

Ditto on BlueGiant's comments, too. Tough to combat the poor nutrition (pregnancy term) and then add more milk valves to Bambi's abdomen...

:hearts You cared enough, and keepOnCaring. :angel: ditto. :hug:

... how do we clone a Leaf?


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## mouse_chalk (Oct 23, 2008)

Aww Leaf, I'm so sorry you lost some of the babies. I'm certain that they had much more of a peaceful ending than they would have had they stayed where they were...  

I hope Bambi and the remaining babies are doing well today.

Treasured Friend is right (and I always love your posts by the way, Treasured Friend, they make me smile so much!)- we need to clone you! There needs to be more leaves in the world :hug:


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## gentle giants (Oct 24, 2008)

That is very common when the mother has been malnourished during pregnancy. Charity was extremely malnourished when I got her, and even though she carried her litter to term, none of the litter made it past 24 hours old. It's very sad, but at least the mother is going to be ok, and hopefully the rest of the babies too.


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## BSAR (Oct 24, 2008)

That is very lucky for her that you took her in. I can't believe someone would take rabbits hunting! What is the purpose of that? Im stunned! I'm sorry for the loss of three of the very preciouse and adorable babies.

I hope that Bambi (great name by the way!)and the rest of the babies do good.


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## Leaf (Oct 24, 2008)

*gentle giants wrote: *


> That is very common when the mother has been malnourished during pregnancy. Charity was extremely malnourished when I got her, and even though she carried her litter to term, none of the litter made it past 24 hours old. It's very sad, but at least the mother is going to be ok, and hopefully the rest of the babies too.



That makes me feel better, but in a sad way. I keep trying to go over what I've done or am doing wrong.

She's alone in a 6' hutch. She has water, hay, pellets (with black oil sunflower seeds), a litter box and a litter box with her nest andbabies in it. The hutch is covered with a sheet but its up in a corner so she can see out. No other animals out there.

I came home from work around 3:00am and checked on them. She has one black baby out on the floor. Its fat and fed and was warm. Looks like she peed in the nest so I got a clean large litter box out for her. I put new shredded newspaper in the bottom, a bit of new hay and lifted the nest of babies into it. I pulled some wet hair out of the nest and then checked on the babies.

Two white ones were very thin and cool. I picked them up and put them in my shirt to warm them while I checked the rest. They are ok so I gotBambi out and flipped her over while I was siting down. One of the warmed babies nursed right away and became more steady. It didnt get as plump as the rest but did fill quite a bit. The other baby Im not so sure about. It was already stretching, chirping and almost "panting". It did nurse but was weak. (I actually fed this one first even though Im writing about it second) It plumped up as well but Im worried about it because of the odd breathing. 

The three went into a dog crate while I cleaned out the hutch and then I moved the two babies into the nest and put Bambi back. She let me scratch her face a bit before she lunged and boxed at me.

They're settled in for the rest of the night. I'll check on them again after I geta few hours of sleep. I have a doctor appointment in the morning so I'm home after working half a shift. I was so afraid I'd come home to more losses - close, and I don't know if the two are out of the woods yet.

Im kind of saddened about what the morning may bring.

This is exhausting even though I dont feel like Im really doing much at all.


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## BlueGiants (Oct 24, 2008)

It is exhausting! It's emotionally draining to be on edge and worry about them so much. You just have to know that you are doing all you can for her and the babies.

If she is peeing in the nestbox, move it over. If it's in a corner, move it to the middle of a wall (between corners). Sometimes sliding it over 12-14" makes all the difference. She shouldn't abandon them, she will "find them". And they are young enough, if you want to try and pull a little more fur off her, if you think they need it.

Be calm around her and them. If you get nervous over checking the nestbox, she will sense that and may become defensive. Boxing and charging is normal, she isn't trying to bite you. 

Hugs to you for doing this for them... :hug:


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 24, 2008)

Aww Leaf, you are doing so well. They had NO chance before. Now, maybe at least part of the litter will make it and so will Bambi.


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## kherrmann3 (Oct 24, 2008)

*Leaf wrote:
*


> I picked them up and put them in my shirt to warm them while I checked the rest.
> 
> She let me scratch her face a bit before she lunged and boxed at me.


Well, at least Mama isn't trying to kill you (as much) anymore. And look on the bright side, you got TWO wee itty-bitty-bunneh snuggles, too!  Good luck!


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## gentle giants (Oct 24, 2008)

Please don't feel any guilt over the problems the kits are having, Leaf, in a situation like this there is really very little that even the most experienced breeder/rabbit person can do. 

ray:for you and the rest of the babies--and momma, of course.


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## Leaf (Oct 24, 2008)

As of right now I have one black and one white baby still living.

Two of nine - I'm not very optimistic at this point.

:sigh:


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## kherrmann3 (Oct 24, 2008)

I'm sorry, Leaf 

:hug: - for you

ray: - for momma and babies

:rainbow: binky free, little ones


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## BlueGiants (Oct 24, 2008)

I'm sorry Leaf... she probably just doesn't haveit in her to raise them. After everything she's been through, it's a miracle she is still alive. Based on her previous treatment, her milk may be no good. 

Here's hoping that the two little ones make it... {{{HUGS}}} to you for trying...


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## Leaf (Oct 24, 2008)

:rainbow:baby bunnies.

...

Now I need to know, is there any special care Bambi will need now that she has lost the entire litter?


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## BlueGiants (Oct 24, 2008)

I'd remove the nestbox and clean everything up. Give her a little extra attention. She will probably get over it pretty quick. I'm sure their presence stressed her a little more. 

You may find that without them, she calms down pretty quick and may become more "social".

I'm so sorry. (I hate to put this out there, but it may be the best thing for Bambi's sake... as they grew, it would take a lot out of her to raise them.)


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Oct 24, 2008)

omgosh i am so sorry, but it is stil great what you did taking her in.


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## TreasuredFriend (Oct 24, 2008)

Q for BlueGiants, polly, GG, others w/tiny ones... :

Should Leaf have Bambi checked for coccidiosis? Our abandoned Momma (found in woods) came to shelter and had a litter; all died despite efforts to help. A few at shelter, a few at our home. One stillborn. We didn't know until later on that Momma had intestinal coccidiosis. She was very thin when she had her babies. The mucousy output worsened. Should Bambi get a parasitic fecal float?

Sending more support 'n' pullin' for that mom you saved. :rose:


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## BlueGiants (Oct 24, 2008)

Leaf could test if she wants.... if she thinks it's a concern. I'd only have her tested if she is presenting symptoms. If she isn't gaining weight on a proper diet, if the stools are mucousy or runny, if she looks "unthrifty"... poor coat, dull eyes, thin and malnourtished.

In the photo's, she didn't look that bad. The babies could have passed from a number of things. After everything she had been through, I wouldn't be surprised if her milk wasn't good or if she didn't have enough for them.


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## lilbitsmom (Oct 24, 2008)

*Leaf wrote: *


> :rainbow:baby bunnies.
> 
> ...
> 
> Now I need to know, is there any special care Bambi will need now that she has lost the entire litter?


Leaf, I am so sorry for your losses!. We lost baby bunnies over the summer too and it is so disheartening to lose them even though you haven't known them for very long. You invest so much into their little beings and want so badly for them to grow and flourish.

It must be terribly hard for you and I hope that you know you did your best andin the end - nature does what is best for everyone involved. Now Bambi will be able to recover in your loving home and I'm sure she will appreciate your love and attention.

Good luck to you with her. I hope she can settle down and get well.


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## gentle giants (Oct 24, 2008)

*BlueGiants wrote: *


> Leaf could test if she wants.... if she thinks it's a concern. I'd only have her tested if she is presenting symptoms. If she isn't gaining weight on a proper diet, if the stools are mucousy or runny, if she looks "unthrifty"... poor coat, dull eyes, thin and malnourtished.


I agree. If she isn't showing any symptoms, probably is not a concern. Also, I don't know if the vet would want to see her or not along with that test, and you wouldn't want to add to her stress with a vet vist right now.


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## slavetoabunny (Oct 24, 2008)

I'm so sorry you lost all the babies. :rip: Even though they were unexpected and weren't with you long, I know how easy it is to get emotionally attached. I'm glad they were born in your care.


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## mouse_chalk (Oct 24, 2008)

I'm so sorry you lost them all.....  

It must be heartbreaking for you, but please know that they were SO much better off with you, and you did all you could. I can't even think about what would have happened to them and Bambi had you not taken them in....

I really hope that Bambi is doing ok, despite her loss....

:hug:


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## Jenk (Oct 24, 2008)

Leaf,

I'm sorry that I'venot been around much on the forum and that I missed this thread. But I think that it's wonderful this bunny wound up with you, a caring and knowledgeable bun owner. 

Jenk


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 24, 2008)

Oh Leaf, I'm so sorry. I wonder what was wrong? 

Just do what you can for Bambi. She's been through a lot.


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## LuvaBun (Oct 24, 2008)

I'm so sorry about losing the babies. I guess Bambi probably went through too much trauma beforehand . How is she doing herself, now?

Jan


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## TinysMom (Oct 24, 2008)

I'm so sorry for all the losses Leaf. That is heartbreaking - I know what it is like to have problems with litters and lose babies a few at a time. It got the point where I didn't even want to look at the nests anymore...or walk into the rabbitry.

I am wondering if they had issues because maybe mama wasn't taken good care of while she was pregnant. Perhaps they had internal issues going on that would have kept them from thriving?

I hope you can help Bambi recover from all the stress she's been through - maybe she'll calm down now as you help her get more healthy.


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## superchar42 (Oct 25, 2008)

I'm so sorry this happened, Leaf, but I want to repeat everyone else's condolences, and you did everything you could have. Without you, she may never have had any chance at all to have and try to raise these kits. 
It's a miracle that buns can do this on their own out in the wild, isn't it?


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