# 6 week olds and mucoid enteropathy



## BlueGiants (Feb 16, 2008)

I have a 6 week old litter of Flemish. This is the does third litter. She is a Blue, a very good mother, in excellent health and very good condition. There were 7 born 1/10/08. She has always delivered 6-7 in each litter. (Bred to two different bucks over the three litters).

Every litter shekindled, has issues with mucoid enteropothy. I've lost 3-5 in every litter. There are always does around her that kindle at the same time, with litters on the same diets. Lots of fresh hay, plenty of water. And she seems to have plenty of milk. They are all fat and sassy at 3 weeks. Then at 6 weeks, one by one, mucous instead of stool at night and dead the next morning. As I said, this is the third time this is happening with her litters. I've cleaned and scrubbed. I putthe doeon Probioticsfor 2 weeks before she kindled. I have her on it again (since the babies were 4 weeks old). 

Last night, I syringed one little black with Critical Care. He wasn't lethargic yet, but had a "wet poopy butt". Took the Critical Care well. Also took 7cc of water with pedialite. He was dead this morning. He's the 3rd one in this litter. 

My question, is there any evidence that this could be a genetic issue, like some lines have a propensity to succome to intestinal issues at weaning? She is still nursing them, maybe once a day.They are eating hay and oats with a little pellets. I have 3 other litters right now, all around her, with no problems. (All the same age, give or take a week)

I'd appreciate any input. Also suggestions of what else can be done for one so young. (Haven't found anything that works well on them once syptoms show.) Can't even get to the vet in the 8-10 hours between when I see it and when they die. 

I know this is the age when it usually shows up, and I occassionally see it in other litters (maybe once in a while). But the litters out of this doe seem to have a real problem. I havea survivingdaughter from a previous litter that I'm going to breed in a couple months. I'm anxious to see if it's something she has problems with also.


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## Peek-a-boo (Feb 16, 2008)

im so sorry to hear you keep loosing kits to this horrible illness i have also had problems with Mucoid enteropathies its not nice i have no idea if its genetic or not sorry not much help on there but have you tried putting probiotics in the water when weaning the kits? this should help give the gut extra support? just a thougt :?


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## BlueGiants (Feb 16, 2008)

I can certainly try probiotics. Momma's getting it, I'll just include the babies. I've have very good luck lately with the litters born here. I'm just wondering if I should retire this doe from breeding. She's such a sweetie. (But I think the real test will be when I breed her oldest daughter. If her litter has issues too, I'll stop breeding the line.)


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Feb 16, 2008)

oooh I'm so sorry! *hugs*:hug:

Are the other does that are fine/litters fine, are they bred to the same bucks as she is? 
The only thing that I could think of, is that is probably is genetic, but I'm not sure. Maybe when you go to the vet, you could have the doe tested for it or something, if that can be done. 

What is Mucoid Enteropothy (sp?) exactly? Is it like Enterotoxemia? I can't find what Mucoid Ent. is in my rabbit books, but I did find what Enterotoxemia is, and it has something to do with the GI tract and the symptoms are:

1) Profuse diarrhea that's brown or bloody

2) Loss of appetite

3) Weakness

4) Sudden Death

By the way, this is from the book "Rabbits For Dummies" by Audrey Pavia. Good luck, though!  Are the kits symptoms kind of like that at all? 

Emily


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## polly (Feb 16, 2008)

Hi im sorry thats crappy, looks like something is going on in the does gut maybe not a good balance of flora andfauna for whatever reasonfor that to keep happening, especially if its only her. Maybe a weaker gut or something.

Over here the breeders use a fluid called Coxoid (not sure if you get it in the states) you mix it with their drinking water and can give while a doe is pregnant and to weaning kits too.

i use entracare and have my rabbits on it all the time its a fluid mixed with water as well i mentioned it beofre and basically its oregano. Now i am not sure why this should be good but i will say that it has made a big difference to my rabbits. I had a few fussy eaters which have been much better since they have been on it. No upset tums and the ones to watch for Stasis have been much better. 

having said that i have not come across this in my shed yet i use it as a precaution, but have never had a problem with kits weaning either.

i hope you can find something over there to help out.


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## BlueGiants (Feb 16, 2008)

Thanks Emily. The bucks have both been used with many other does with no problems. I don't think it's them.

They used to call it mucoid enteritis. It's seen in 4-8 week old kits, when the gut gets so out of balance that the poop turns to a jelly like consistancy and the bunny usually dies (from dehydration). The problem is that the time line can be very short between when you see symptoms and the bunny dies. They are so young.  The baby will usually get lethargic and refuse to eat or drink. (It can happen to older rabbits too... same symptoms, but usually an older rabbit has more of a chance with treatment.)

I don't see it very often. It's just that this doe's litters always seem to have a problem. That's why I was wondering if it could be genetic. I don't think it's anything the vet can test the doe for. She is fine... 

I spoke to the vet, her suggestion was Critical Care. That didn't work. She won't prescribe antibiotics (will make the problem worse.) I wish I knew a way to set the gut right quickly.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Feb 16, 2008)

Your Welcome. 

Okay, I found it in that book now. It says that it's an infection/inflammation of the intestines... 

I'm not sure what could work. Maybe feeding the babies some KMR w/colostrum? Colostrum is an important thing that gives babies something important....i can't remember what it is; lol. All I know is that it's very important for certain newborn animals. Maybe it would help with the bunnies? 

What kind of diet is the doe currently on? 

Emily


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## Maukin (Feb 16, 2008)

Aw, sorry about the kits, Cathy, that SUCKS.

It almost sounds like parvovirus in dogs and cats. It has basically the same symptoms and all that can be done for pups/kittens is supportive care.

But that leads me to a theory, parvo is HIGHLY contagious. Could it possibly be the enclosure? I know that parvo can live outside the body for a very long time on cages, bowls, blankets, anything the animal was in contact with and the only thing that gets rid of it is a long soak in boiling water with bleach. Adults have a certain immunity top it, so you would not see it in the doe and the bucks. Not saying it is parvo, but shooting along the same theory base.

Could it be some sort of virus making this happen?

Just a shot in the dark.


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## bunnybunbunb (Feb 16, 2008)

I have only had 1 doe get it. She kept getting them and I gave her Yogurt, bread, and this stuff called Sulmet in her water(along with pellets and hay). Cleared her up every time with in a day or so. She got it 3-4 times. She lived for a few years then got her neck broke.


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## ra7751 (Feb 16, 2008)

Ummm...this sounds very familiar. This is exactly why many wildlife rehabbers refuse cottontails. In cottontails, this occurs about 21 days old. It's caused by a weaning gut that is transitioning from a baby gut to an adult gut. In reality, the pH is changing quickly from neutral pH to a much more acidic pH. The very delicate bacteria in the baby's gut has a difficult time adjusting to the quickly changing climate in the GI tract and it starts to die. This is similar to what happens in advanced stasis in adults. The mucus is the body's attempt to protect the intestinal walls. This quickly can lead to dehydration and a painful and fast death.

The idea of using bread or yogurt is very counterproductive as it only adds to the imbalance. I am totally against adding anything to the drinking water as that usually results only in contaminated water.The thought of giving KMR or goat's milk to a rabbitis not something I would do.Giving probiotics to the doe isn't really going to help the kits directly. In past years, I have been running test groups of cottontails to test the benefits of controlling the pH change in the gut by starting the conversion a bit ahead of what nature intended. That allow the conversion to be a bit less stressful....it doesn't happen as fast. It seems that probiotics with the bacterial culture L. Casei is most beneficial. I intend on using this culture pretty much across the board with incoming cottontails this year. This culture can be found in probiotics such as Bene-Bac. In cottontails, weaning is a bit earlier and seems to be more violent than domestics. I start altering the pH as soon as they can start nibbling on solid foods...that is normally somewhere around 14 days or maybe a little earlier with some hardier individuals. Since the cottontails are all orphaned (and many times really kidnapped by well intentioned people)...they are a bit more challenged since even the best formulas (and they don't include KMR or goat's milk as they contain far too little nourishment for rabbits) are not quiteup to mom's...and sometimes the kits have not had a chance to eat mom's cecals. So we are very well versed at building and maintaining floral growth in the gut.

I have these protocols written somewhere around here. They go almost day by day as to what is going on in the gut and how to respond to it. It is written for cottontails....they do wean a bit earlier but the guts of cottontails and domestics are essentially identical....and I use the same protocols on both domestics and cottontails. I will see if I can find the disk they are on.

For those of you that breed....I can hook you up with some fabulous formula. The long held notion of using goat's milk and/orKMR is outdated as we now know that the nutrition in these products are far too low. While it may appear the rabbit does well....problems can arise down the road.Many neonates develop a conditon known as MBD which affects the bones.The formula I use is one of the best available....and is surprisingly inexpensive. I use it with rabbits, very young squirrels and baby opossums. It is fairly high in both fat and protein and comes remarkably close to the composition of mother rabbits....closer than most anything else. You might also contact a wildlife rehabber in your area since they should be well versed in dealing with these gut issues and might be willing to help you. 

Randy


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## BlueGiants (Feb 16, 2008)

Really appreciate your input Randy. I remember reading what you wrote previously about this, and their gut switching to the acidic levels. Any info you can give me about your protocol would be helpful. As I mentioned, it is just this one doe's kits. I love her dearly, and will not breed her again. I do think it's something with her or her genetics. It just breaks my heart to lose the babieslike this. She has 4 left and as of tonight, they all look fine. 

She is such a good mom. She has plenty of milk, raises the kits without any problems... until 6 weeks. I've cleaned the cages, switched cages, have done everything I could think of... I don't think it's a contagious virus... none of the other litters around them have had a problem. (And they are pretty close.)

The probiotic I use is called Pro-Bac, from Rabbit Medicine Chest, it contains L. Casei. (amongst other beneficial bacteria). Randy, PM if necessary, please give me an idea how much to give the kits or how often.

I don't use yogurtor bread, and I'm not giving them anything in the water. The only thing I tried was Critical Care fedfrom a syringe and water with pedialyte. Which just may have been too late for him.

(Randy,I would love your recipe for a good formula for future reference. Have not had much luck with KMR... don't use goats milk.)


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## Pipp (Feb 16, 2008)

This is the 'recommended' article in the Library, from Pam Alley... Definitely worth reading. (Feedback on it welcome). 

Enteritis Complexes: Coccidiosis, Mucoid Enteropathy, and Enterotoxemia (Pamela Alley) - describes the different intestinal ailments that commonly cause diarrheain rabbits. http://www.showbunny.com/gastrointestinal.htm

Sorry for your losses. 

sas


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## BlueGiants (Feb 16, 2008)

Thanks Pipp! I have that one in my favorites. Lots of good info. Appreciate all the help.

Kind of sad, I've come to expect it with this doe.


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## Maukin (Feb 16, 2008)

Passing along that recipe for milk substitute would be very appreciated. Love to have it on file just in case.


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## CorkysMom (Feb 17, 2008)

Same here, would love the recipe! Thanks!!!

BG-I hope you get this sorted, I had a litter wiped out between 5-6 weeks a couple years ago, no signs of anything like this, no signs of any type at all. They all died w/in the course of about a week...I was devistated!! Had one necroscopied (sp?) and vet found NOTHING wrong...food in tummy even...Its awful thats for sure. 

Good luck, I hope you don't lose any of the remaining kits and get it figured out!


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## jil101ca (Feb 17, 2008)

I lost 4 out of a litter of 8 Jan/06 from this when the Mom died. Mar 06 I had another doe die (sister to the first one) leaving 9 kits 6 days old. To prevent this I mixed Cecal poops with some water and added the water to the formula. Raised 7 of the 9 with no problems, the other 2 died within days of the Mom. It's the same idea as adding probiotics and is natures way of balancing the flora. I keep cecal poops in my freezer just in case I need some and have no donors.


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## ra7751 (Feb 17, 2008)

Here is a link to the formula I use with cottontails and any unweaned domestics that come into our rescue. In my opinion, this is the best formula available for rabbits. 

http://www.foxvalleynutrition.com/prod/products.asp?PLID=1

You want the 32/40 formula. As with any formula, it does require an acclimation period. The standard mix of this formula is 2 parts water to 1 part formula. I usually mix it at 25% concentration for the first couple of feeding, 50% for the next couple and then 75% for the next couple of feeding before going full mix. You should feed this formula at about body temp. Since most of you are breeders....you already know the body position to properly hand feed a kit....and we all know that rabbits are very prone to aspirating formula and that is not good. I generally feed at 5% of body weight. I usually start the pinkies with feedings every couple of hours thru the day and start scaling back on the number of feeding as they age. I start with probiotics as soon as they start eating solid food. I usually offer timothy and alfalfa hay.....and either grass from our yard or the commercially available Spring Mix salads. I also introduce pellets to the domestics (no pellets for cottontails since they won't be getting pellets once they are released). The critical time for cottontails is about 21 days and they are fully weaned at about 28...and you already know that domestics are slightly slower in their weaning. It does seem that weaning in cottontails is a much more stressful event (both for the rabbit and the rehabber) than domestics. These protocols are still a "work in progress". I learn something new every rescue season and can adapt those lessons to our domestics.

Randy


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## pamnock (Feb 18, 2008)

There can be a hereditary predisposition to ME, however, there are also many other factors.

Pam


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## BlueGiants (Feb 18, 2008)

*pamnock wrote: *


> There can be a hereditary predisposition to ME, however, there are also many other factors.
> 
> Pam


I'm sincerely open to suggestions Pam... I always thought it was from not keeping things clean... got that covered... could there be something with the mother's milk? Should I try fostering them to another doe? ANY idea's are appreciated.


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## pamnock (Feb 18, 2008)

Broad spectrum antibiotics can be very helpful during outbreaks.

Pam


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## GoinBackToCali (Feb 18, 2008)

I am currently battling this.. just had a second baby die in my arms from it around 2 am this morning.

I found something somewhat helpful from another breeder, as far as hydrating, and actually, my remaining babies condition have improved dramatically..

But by no means is it a miracle fix..

I am in the middle of some horse issues right now, and I need to go attend to one of mine.. but when I get a minute to breathe, I will sit down and detail whats going on, and what I have found that has helped..

Prolly later on tonight..


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## GoinBackToCali (Feb 18, 2008)

I would like to add.. the babies I am currently dealing with are between 3 to 4 weeks old, a bit younger, but still same symptoms..


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## Lias_ark (Feb 18, 2008)

I had this same problem this past fall. Kits would be 6 weeks still with mom and dead in the a.m. 

I started checking buts if I saw loose bowels( diahrea) I treated with corrid for 5 days and gave a bowl of pedyalite in the cage along with a crock of plain water. So far so good. The kits suck down the pedialyte. I put peyalite in everyday till they stop drinking it.


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## GoinBackToCali (Feb 18, 2008)

Alright, I am back..

Now I realize BlueGiants asked if this might be genetic. I can't actually answer that, but I can offer some advice on what has worked for me.

I originally had 2 litters..one was of 4, the other was of 8. It was actually more than that, but what ended up surviving longer than a few hours after birth was 12. Regardless, the original mother of 8 died, so we fostered them off to the mother of 4. That doe ended up getting Mastitis. So we had to resort to bottle feeding them. I used Randy's instructions and formula advice down to the letter,hydrating and Bene-Bac.. I still lost 2.. messy butt, then mucous. I managed to save 10.. I thought I was out of the woods, 4 days ago we awoke to one dead severely bloated baby. All of them got the messy butt again, with the green mucous. Again Randy came to the rescue and we pretty much followed the same protocol.

I still lost another baby this morning, same circumstances.

The rest had the messy butts and were beginning to bloat despite my best efforts. A late night chat with Peg helped a bunch, and she referred me to this website.

http://www.thenaturetrail.com/Holland-Lops-and-Diarrhea.htm

Randy will prolly tar and feather me for this, but honestly, the babies were behind the 8 ball, the prognosis looked grim. So my thinking was.. if they are going to most likely die anyway.. lets give this a try... a last ditch effort.

So I tried the ORT (Oral Rehydration Therapy) recipe on the page.. it is as follows..

1 cup clean water
2 teaspoons sugar
1/4 teaspoon baking soda
3/16 teaspoon salt (take some out of a 1/4 tsp. or use a rounded 1/8 tsp.)





The article also went on to say..


"This formula differed from ones I'd previously used by having baking soda in it. But because I had read that the bunny's system is probably more acid when it is sick like this, I thought it might be a good thing to include the soda. One article said that the system would be so acid that using probiotics might be useless since they would die in the high acid environment before they could colonize the colon again."




I am not a vet... but I do know a few things about domestic and farm animals, I am also a Forensic Toxicologist by trade, and honestly, thats just a basic law of chemistry, in a roundabout way. The theory of the baking soda is sound... I have seen it used in other applications in the field, which I won't divulge here..so I know what it can and cannot do. It made sense to me. So I began my first go at it last night. All drank eagerly. I also made a slurry of sorts out of Bananas, pellets and pedialyte. About half ate it willingly and eagerly, the others I managed to get some down them by syringe. After about 30 minutes after they finished eating and drinking, I Bene-Bac'ed them all. I hoped and prayed for the best.

By my 6 am feeding.. 5 of the 8 had dry butts, I rehydrated again using my homemade ORT recipe, and Bene-Bac-ed again. By this evening.. ALL have dry butts, and some are beginning to excrete normal-ish poops. I gave them some Timothy Hay, and a bit of Quaker Oats. Again they all ate eagerly.. ALL of them. I left to go to the Gym and Tan and beat my daughter profusely about the head and shoulders (joke people.. I didn't beat her, but I felt like slapping her upside the head). I came back about 3 hours later, my son Blake kept vigil over them. All are still dry butt-ed, and eager. Some are grooming themselves again. 

I would also like to add, that I have them in a small cage.. some of you have seen the pics of it. I have a heating pad in the bottom with several layers of t-shirts on top of it. I keep it on med, and turn it off several times a day. I have a towel over the cage to keep it dark and not so drafty. I must stress that it is NOT ok to leave a heating pad on babies.. especially unattended. Especially fur less ones. But mine are between 3 and 4 weeks. I slept on the couch with them beside me in their cage all night. I set my cell phone alarm to wake me at 45 minute intervals. They were always supervised.. I firmly believe that the warm surface for them to lay their belly's on helped a tremendous lot. Many slept with their legs behind them.. flat bellied on the bottom of the cage. I know when my tummy is upset, heat helps.. so I thought it would do well for them as well.

The change in my 8 remaining babies is amazing.. like I said, I figured it wouldn't hurt to try one last thing. I don't know if this will work for everybody, but it worked for me, and as 8 pm tonight, they are all still dry butts and eating.

I followed this regimen on this website to the letter.. tomorrow I will begin day 2's therapy.

I would love to hear anyone else's opinions or input on this.

I for one am just elated the babies may have a chance still.


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## TinysMom (Feb 18, 2008)

I wanted to take a moment and point out that I got the link to the website from our library....which has some excellent reference material in it. 

You can find the library here:

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_forum.php?id=10

If you click on "topic" at the top of the topic column - it will sort the subjects alphabetically.

The site I recommended to Zin was from this topic/link....

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=11935&forum_id=10

Peg


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## Pipp (Feb 18, 2008)

*GoinBackToCali wrote: *


> So I tried the ORT (Oral Rehydration Therapy) recipe on the page.. it is as follows..
> 
> 1 cup clean water
> 2 teaspoons sugar
> ...


This is just the standard recipe for homemade Pedialyte, baking soda included. Rehydration therapy has to be helpful IMO. 


GoinBackToCali* wrote: *


> ...One article said that the system would be so acid that using probiotics might be useless since they would die in the high acid environment before they could colonize the colon again."



This has been a common argument in the rabbit world, everybody has an opinion on it. I'm still looking for a note that outlined more info on probiotics, but between that and my own experience, I've been swayed that they can be very helpful. 



sas :bunnydance:


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## GoinBackToCali (Feb 18, 2008)

Ok.. question. I have tried giving the babies the store bought pedialyte and they have fought me tooth and nail, and not eager to drink at all.

Do you think maybe the taste is different or something?


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## Pipp (Feb 18, 2008)

Mine suck up the flavored Pedialyte but not the unflavored. (And at least one is fussy about the brand -- she'll only drink the Pedialyte brand, not the drug store's generic brand). 



sas :?


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## BlueGiants (Feb 18, 2008)

Really appreciate the info. I'm willing to try it. I already got them to take Critical Care tonight with Probiotics. And they took a lot. One of themhas a nice clean butt. THe other two are questionable.But they were looking better and washing themselves when we got done. But I'll try your recipe for the early morning feeding. Thanks very much.

I agree Pipp. I think the probiotics help too... I've seen major improvements in some pretty sick buns.


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## ra7751 (Feb 18, 2008)

Just a quick question to ponder here regarding using baking soda and probiotics. The situation in a weaning rabbit's gut is the fact that the gut is converting to an acidic adult envirionment. Now....the baking soda will neutralize the acid. Isthat what you really need to do? How do you control the amount of neutralization? But what exactly does the probiotics do? Probiotics contain *acid*ophilus. Notice the first four letters. If you give a rabbit baking soda, or an antacid like Tums or Rolaids, you are neutralizing the acid that the beneficial bacteria needs to thrive. The bacteria in most probiotics are not the strains that grow naturally in a rabbit's gut....it works by acidifying the intestinal tract and providing a stable environment. I would like to open this to discussion...but it appears that by using baking soda and probiotics that a situation is being created that goes from one extreme to the other....the exact opposite of what I would be trying to do. As I have said before...steady the ship...that gut does not like rapid changes in either direction.

I can see the lines of thought here. I am going back to cottontails since I do so many of the kits...and raise them from pinkies in which many times they have had very limited feedings from their mother. I attempt to control the conversion by using probiotics. It is going to go acidic in a live weaned rabbit anyway....why use something to neutralize the acid? It has to convert at some point. The other thought I see here is to use baking soda to slow and extend the conversion. But how do you control the amount of acid neutralized and how do you handle the pH conversion that has to happen?

Just a little fuel added to the fire....eagerly awaiting comments.

Randy


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## TinysMom (Feb 18, 2008)

Randy,

I love it when you add "fuel to the fire" cause I always learn so much...

What do you think about the fact that these kits have gone from having problems with wet butts and stuff....to having normal poops? Can you address that at all?

Just curious.....

Peg


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## GoinBackToCali (Feb 18, 2008)

Ok, using my training, my EXACT thought was to use baking soda to slow and extend the conversion. 

My biggest question was exactly how do I gauge the amount. I don't. I am sure with more thought on the matter I could come up with some formulation. But as I said, at the time, the situation was grim, and I figured it couldn't hurt any more than them dying already.

Fortunately, it is working out well. 

I am open for the discussion as well...

Randy the firestoker...

That's a new one..LOL


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## BlueGiants (Feb 18, 2008)

Well, if this is a recipe for a home made pedialyte, and we givePedialyte to them anyway, do you think it would affect them much?The baking soda is a very small amount in a cup of water.


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## GoinBackToCali (Feb 18, 2008)

Peg,

Perhaps the ones who have succumbed werent the hardiest of the litter..and the others have a strong will to survive..

I have noticed.. as with every thing else.. Rabbits either decide to die, or decide to fight..maybe what's left are my Freedom Fighters.. My Scotsmen...


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## Lias_ark (Feb 19, 2008)

*GoinBackToCali wrote: *


> Ok.. question. I have tried giving the babies the store bought pedialyte and they have fought me tooth and nail, and not eager to drink at all.
> 
> Do you think maybe the taste is different or something?


my buns suck down the plain pedialyte and the nature trail recipe


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## BlueGiants (Feb 19, 2008)

The litter is now down to two. One is doing very well, the other is isn't. They are both on Critical Care 3 times a day, mixed with probiotics and warm water. Theaffected onesgot sub-Q fluids last night and today. None of the other litters around them have been affected. 

I agree that there are bacterial infections that can cause the same symptoms. But I do not think that is the case here. I do believe it is a genetic issue and my sweetTequila will be retired from breeding. (Just can't overlook the same thing happening 3 times in a row to the same doe.) She tries so hard to raise them and they just don't make it. I'm not giving up on the last two, not yet...


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## CorkysMom (Feb 20, 2008)

Man, thats tough...I'm so sorry....its so hard just when you think they are starting to do better. :bigtears:


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## BlueGiants (Feb 20, 2008)

Both babies are eating oats and hay again. I tried Zin's recipe, once a day (in the evening). Tonight was the third time I gave it to them. (I stopped the subQ fluids too). The little blue one is still pretty skinny, but his butt is dry. (YEAHhhH!) And he's running around the cage, bugging his momma. The black boy is larger, weighs3.75 lbs. The blue is only 2.7 lbs. (I know, doesn't sound very small, but it issmall for a 6 week Flemish!). 

As of today, I'm giving the blue boy Critical Care twice a day (mixed with a squirt of NutriCal) and rehydrating once a day with Zin's recipe. (The first night I went with half the baking soda, as of tonight I mixed it regular strength.) I syringed it into him, but he takes it willingly. I did notgive theCritical Care mixto the black boy as of tonight, he has no symptoms and is eatting (and pooping) just fine. (And the blue will eat the Critical Care mix right out of a little bowl!)

I'm really encouraged by the improvement in the blue and the lack of symptoms in the black. I'm disappointed that the other two didn't make it, but they were pretty far along when I started the treatment. (I'm taking this one day at a time and keeping my hopes up!)


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## GoinBackToCali (Feb 20, 2008)

I am sooooooooo pleased for you!!

The way I see it.. if it looks grim anyway, you really don't have anything to lose..

Mine are all back to eating and drinking and pooping nomrally..no messy butts, and about half's fur has fluffed back up (nappy fur means they are dehydrated)

I am so happy for you!!!!


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## pamnock (Feb 20, 2008)

Here's an excellent article on breeding for disease resistance

http://www.bifconference.com/bif2006/pdfs/Snowder.pdf







Pam


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## BlueGiants (Feb 20, 2008)

EXCELLENT! Thanks Pam! (think I'll print that one out so I have it to reference.) You're awesome Pam! :biggrin2:


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## RAL Rabbitry (Feb 21, 2008)

I am leaning toward the problem being genetic. I have a buck that I bought last

year. I just noticed that one of his kits has the runs. The kit is fostered

to a castor doe and none of the other kits are affected. I keep pretty extensive

notes and looked back at his record. He has been bred to five does and four of

them have had kits affected. They are not as severe as what Blue Giants has

experienced but I have lost a couple of them. I never had this problem before 

and don't have this problem with any other pairings. It makes me wonder......

Roger


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## CorkysMom (Feb 21, 2008)

How are they today?


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## BlueGiants (Feb 21, 2008)

As of tonight, both boys are doing well.:biggrin2: The little blue didn't need Critical Care or re-hydration today. He is eatting, drinking, peeing and pooping just fine. And his butt is totally dry! He's still a little thin, but I think he's doing much better. The black boy is doing fine, no issues. I'm so happy at least two made it. Gave them huge amounts of hay tonight and lots of rolled oats. (Tequila got her slice of apple seperate.)

Tequila will be retired from breeding and I won't keep either of her boys for breeding.

None of the other litters around them have been affected. (Thank the good Lord!) I have to think that if it was bacteria/viral it would have been spread to others.


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