# Suddenly lethargic bunny



## Harley'sMummy (Mar 13, 2013)

Hi all,

Me & my partner, Danny, adopted a 9 week old female Harlequin rabbit last Friday because she hopped right up to the edge of the cage she was in and licked our fingers and followed us around the room. This behaviour continued once we were back home with her. She was let out of her cage in the area we were able to easily rabbit proof and she was exploring and sniffing away at everything. She would follow me & Danny if we walked through the are she was in and was generally a curious and energetic bunny.

Until today (Wednesday), now she has nearly no interest in anyone or anything. She is still nibbling on hay and her favourite veggies and a little of her food and I am starting to worry. We noticed that she was picking at the muesli mix we had been given with her when we adopted her and I read online that muesli mix is not the best food for rabbits so we went to the pet shop round the corner from where we live and got her a bag of rabbit pellets/nuggets. 

Is this just her saying she isn't happy we've changed her food? Is it just a bad bunny day or is there something more here? My current plan is to monitor her progress in the morning (am in the UK by the way and also I am not home tonight with her so I can't keep an eye on her now) and if she does not improve then I was going to call the local vet for advice.

I might be over reacting as a new rabbit mummy but I wanted to express my concern somewhere that people knew more than me. Sorry and thanks for any useful tips or advice I get.

Fiona


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## LakeCondo (Mar 14, 2013)

No, you aren't overreacting. Are her poops well formed & fairly solid, or are they runny?

She should have an unlimited supply of hay & also alfalfa pellets. The timothy ones are for adults.
Any veggies often cause runny poop, when given at this young age. So if the poops are runny, slowly decrease the greens until the poop is normal again.

Be sure you contact a vet who knows something about rabbits. Rabbits are quite different from dogs & cats, so it's important to find a rabbit vet.

I'm sorry the place you got your rabbit from wasn't doing things right. You have come to the right place here for advice.


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## Harley'sMummy (Mar 14, 2013)

She has unlimited supply to hay via a hay rack and also some hay near where she toilets and rests, she can eat a load of it one day and then hardly touch it another.

We've had on iffy poo (it wasn't runny but was shiny in appearance and they were stuck together like a french plait) and that was last night, her poos today have been back to normal.

Thinking about it, the day before she started acting all lethargic she was in the care of my mother and brother for a while and when we came back to her she had cabbage leaves in her box that she had been nibbling on. Could that be it?

I am not sure if the pellets are alfalfa based, I will check that first thing in the morning when I get back to her.

Knowing, as a doe, she'd need to be spayed we have already got a vet picked out for her for that so that is the vet I was going to contact if she didn't get any better.

By the way, are we looking at a possible case of GI Stasis?


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## missyscove (Mar 14, 2013)

Did the strange poop look like a blackberry? Here's a link with a picture of regular poops and a cecotroph which are the poops they typically reingest. http://theexoticvet.tumblr.com/post/20550992798/a-cecotroph-on-the-left-and-normal-bunny-stool
Cabbage can make some buns gassy and most people wait until rabbits are more mature to introduce greens if they haven't been on them since birth. You definitley could be looking at stasis. I'd cut out any veggies in the cabbage family for now (broccoli, brussels sprouts, etc.) and if she seems to be eating or drinking less you could try giving her some simethicone which is an infant gas medication you can get at a drug store. You might be safest just sticking with hay and pellets for the time being. If she's being offered her water in a bottle, offer a bowl as a second source to encourage her to drink plenty.


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## minmelethuireb (Mar 14, 2013)

Cabbage could be an issue because it can cause gas, which makes the rabbit uncomfortable and not want to eat. Vegetables in general can be problematic for baby rabbits. Here's a good guide on feeding bunnies:
http://www.rabbit.org/faq/sections/diet.html

It says about slowly introducing veggies when the rabbit is three months old.

For the time being I'd cut out veggies, and just feed hay and pellets and keep an eye on her to make sure she keeps pooping. If she's not eating and stops pooping, you need to get her to a vet.


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## Harley'sMummy (Mar 14, 2013)

It didn't look like that, it was stuck together pellets but more in a line than a clump like that.

We knew to be careful with greens and veggies and all she'd had previous to the cabbage my Mum gave her was a tiny amount of lettuce leaves (not iceburg).

Her drinking seems to be good still but will check the water level in the morning, I will also take some of the pellets out of her bowl. She only has a limited supply of them but I will limit it further if her behaviour continues.

I'll look now to see where I can get simethicone around here.


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## Harley'sMummy (Mar 14, 2013)

We've never had a rabbit this young before and the woman at the pet shop said veggies were okay if they were a one off treat. Why don't pet shop owners know more about what they are trading in?

I mean, our local pet shop only sell fragranced wood shavings!


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## missyscove (Mar 14, 2013)

I'm not sure about in the UK, but here in the US we can get it at a drug store and it's over the counter so you don't need a prescription. The usual dose I use is 1cc (1 ml) per hour for the first 3 hours and another dose 3 hours later. It's a pretty safe drug so you don't need to worry about overdosing them and while it's not necessarily proven to help, most vets agree that it can't hurt. It breaks up any gas and makes it easier to pass. It's definitely somehting I keep on hand just in case.


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## Harley'sMummy (Mar 14, 2013)

Thank you all so much for your help, it is close to 5am here and I can't sleep from worry about her. Just don't want to go home in a few hours and find out all this advice was too late :-(


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## JBun (Mar 14, 2013)

Is she grinding her teeth at all, sitting hunched up a lot and not moving around much, is her belly bloated at all and are there any loud gurgling sounds? That's good that she is still eating and pooping. That at least means that she doesn't have GI stasis, which is an intestinal blockage. It sounds to me like it might have been the cabbage that upset her stomach. It's usually better to wait til a bunny is at least 12 weeks old, before starting to introduce veggies, as their digestive system can have problems with veggies until they get a little older. Also, cruciferous veggies, like cabbage can cause gas problems with some rabbits, and that isn't good because rabbits will usually stop eating when they have severe gas pain, which can then cause serious digestive trouble. With her poops being back to normal, I would think that she should be feeling better soon. I would suggest to not feed any more veggies or treats until she is older. Rabbits have very sensitive digestions, so all new foods should be very gradually introduced into the diet. You start with a very small piece of the new food, and give that small amount for 2-3 days. If the poops stay normal and it doesn't seem to upset your rabbits stomach, then each day after you can very gradually increase the amount. The same goes for pellets. When getting a new rabbit, it's best to keep them on the same food as the previous place had been feeding, then over 2-3 weeks you gradually switch your rabbit over to the new food by increasing the new food by a small amount each day, and decreasing the old food by the same amount. This minimizes digestive upset with your rabbit and gives their gut flora time to gradually adjust to the new food. You never want to suddenly change a rabbits food. That can cause serious problems with very sensitive rabbits. The rabbit food with treat pieces isn't good for rabbits because all the sugars and carbs can cause digestive problems, weight problems, and can also make a very picky rabbit that only wants to eat the treat pieces. Plain pellets are best. So with this new food that you got, you don't want to just suddenly change it. You want to just start with small amounts and gradually increase over several weeks. If she still has an upset stomach when you get home, it's usually best to give them mostly hay, and very little to no pellets, until they are feeling better. Hay really helps to get their digestion moving well. If she's not eating hay some days, she may be eating too many pellets, and in that case you will want to decrease the amount of pellets she gets so that she is running out of pellets about 2-3 hours before the next feeding time, if you are feeding twice a day. Generally for young bunnies that are small breed rabbits, you feed about 1/2 cup a day, and split that up into two feedings if possible. That should help increase her hay consumption.

You may not need this, but I'm including this link to explain what GI stasis is, because it sounds like your rabbit was starting to get it. It can start off with digestive upset, the rabbit can get soft poops, then if the gas in the stomach gets really bad, the pooping can stop. It has some good info on things you can do to help your rabbit, and also what can cause these kind of episodes. In your case, it really sounds like it might be the cabbage. I'm also including some links for veggie lists for rabbits, and how to introduce the veggies to your rabbit.

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html
http://www.3bunnies.org/feeding.htm#greens
http://www.rabbit.org/care/veggies.html

I hope your little bun is going to be ok.


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## Harley'sMummy (Mar 14, 2013)

I am writing a list of things I need to remember to check and alter when I see my lil bun tomorrow, thank you all so much for your advice and I will keep you all updated on her progress.

I just hope whatever it is we got it in time.


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## jamesedwardwaller (Mar 14, 2013)

Harley'sMummy said:


> We've never had a rabbit this young before and the woman at the pet shop said veggies were okay if they were a one off treat. Why don't pet shop owners know more about what they are trading in?
> 
> I mean, our local pet shop only sell fragranced wood shavings!


--pet stores hire people for minimum wage--some of what you are told can be ok,,but it is up to the customer to know about the critters involved,,-no scented shavings period..use aspen or grasses ie timothy/orchard,,use the r.o.l -library or this link http://www.medirabbit.com --just getting started --best start on the ground running-absorbing data--sincerely james waller


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## Harley'sMummy (Mar 14, 2013)

She isn't grinding her teeth and as far as I know her tummy isn't making an weird noises; it does feel a bit like a balloon when I feel it though but she doesn't seem to be in any discomfort when I examine it.

Danny tells me that she perked up last night when she was here at home with him and she started nibbling the hay I gave her earlier this morning. She seems to be exploring a bit more than she was but still isn't quite back to get normal inquisitive self. Although right now she is currently climbing all over Danny and licking his chin (she likes his facial hair).

Thanks for that link james, saved it with all the others.


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## existenziell (Mar 14, 2013)

She sounds like a real sweetheart. My first thought when I read this (although maybe I'm way off base) is that she might be just going through a bit of depression/uncertainty. I mean, she may have been enthusiastic at the beginning but maybe she is just still settling in and getting used to things. A new environment can be pretty scary. As long as she is eating and drinking, I wouldn't be too concerned. 

As far as feeding goes, don't overdo the veggies. The majority of her diet should be hay, followed by pellets, followed by treats (like veggies and fruit). Make sure you get the food that is just pellets and not a mix of pellets and other non-nutritious things. Oxbow is a good brand for that. Kaytee can be alright, as long as you don't get the mix. All of the pet stores around here carry those, so maybe your's does too. Seems fairly standard (but, then again, I don't live in your area). 

I agree with what the other people said though. Just observe her and, as long as she doesn't get worse, I wouldn't be too concerned.


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## LakeCondo (Mar 14, 2013)

I hope things have settled down now. It's a good idea to have some simethicone drops [which you can get in the infant section in stores] to have on hand in case you ever need them.

And you probably should make a list of things NOT to feed, so your family knows. Beside plants in the cabbage family, onions, garlic & potatoes are out. And believe it or not, carrot pieces are to be an occasional treat, because of the sugar content. Leaf lettuce & romaine are my staple greens, plus I grow some wheat for Honey to eat when it's about 3-5" high. Any new plant should be introduced only a few bites the 1st day, then more the 2nd, etc. Rabbits are sensitive because of the way they digest food.


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## tonyshuman (Mar 14, 2013)

I wouldn't give any veggies for a while, and it would be good to get him checked by a vet. There could be intestinal parasites, since not all pet store bunnies come from reputable breeders. It's always good to get a relationship with a vet before your bunny is really sick, and since he's had some problems and you're not sure about his overall health, I'd just get him checked. Many people take their bunnies to the vet immediately after they get them, even if they come from a rescue or shelter, just to be sure everything's ok.


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## cheezling (Mar 15, 2013)

Veggies should be introduced very slowly and some don't even recommend them until the bunny is 6 months old.
If you introduce veggies, you should introduce one veggie one week at a time and observe the droppings to make sure she's not getting tummy upsets. She should be fed mostly what she was fed at the pet store and you can make gradual changes to her diet by mixing in new pellets, etc. She should always have unlimited hay.
By muesli, do you mean one for humans? I don't think it's a good idea to feed that to rabbits (let alone a baby rabbit).
And please don't feed her cabbage. Also, as I said be VERY careful with any greens or other veggies.
I would never rely on anything a person working at a pet store tells me. Some of them may indeed know a lot about rabbits (or any other critters), but I'd always make sure with the vet first.
Finally, I do strongly recommend taking her to the vet (especially since you got one picked out already). It's not going to hurt and it will put your mind at ease.


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## cheezling (Mar 15, 2013)

Oh, by the way, it may be worth noting that bunnies are MOST active at dusk and dawn. It is also possible, that sometimes when you see her (I don't know how many hours per day you spend with her), she could just be sleepy.


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## Harley'sMummy (Mar 16, 2013)

Update!

Veggies have been stopped and pellets have been reduced. She is wolfing down the hay & water and her poos have returned to normal. We did take her to the vets for a general check over as was suggested by many of you and apart from a little gas all is well with Harley.

Thank you all so much for all the advice, it really helped me and has given me some invaluable information for the future too.


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## majorv (Mar 16, 2013)

At her age don't limit the pellets too much, unless they're causing a digestive problem. Hay is good for keeping the gut moving, but doesn't provide the nutrients she needs as a growing bunny. That's what the pellets provide.


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## existenziell (Mar 16, 2013)

I second what majorv said. Don't limit the pellets too much. As she gets older (when she's about a year old), you're going to want to start limiting the amount of pellets she gets so she won't get fat. Since she is still developing, she is going to need the nutrients in those. The majority of her diet should still be hay, but don't deprive her of pellets as they contain important nutrients that aid in her development. 

I would still give her veggies after awhile, but make them a treat. Just give her a few pieces of veggies. I generally feed my buns some pieces of lettuce once a day or once every few days just as a treat thing.

I'm glad to hear she's in good health though.


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## Harley'sMummy (Mar 16, 2013)

JBun mentioned tha 1/2 a cup daily is what she should be on so that is what she is getting at the moment. Is that a good amount?


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## majorv (Mar 16, 2013)

That's a good start, but if she's eating them all and still acting hungry then you can increase it. Harlequins are a medium size breed and does will usually get to 7-9 pounds as adults.


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## JBun (Mar 16, 2013)

1/2 cup is just a general amount to start with for a small breed bunny. If your bunny is the Harlequin breed(not just the color of a different breed), then they seem to be more of a medium size rabbit, so you may want to feed closer to 2/3-1 cup a day. After your bun has been doing good for a few more days, acting normal, and poops are normal, you may want to gradually increase the amount of pellets each day, until you get up to the 2/3-1 cup amount. It's really going to depend on your bunny. If your bunny grazes on pellets and hay all day, and doesn't eat her pellets all at once and eats a good amount of hay, then you could give her closer to a cup or more, to where she is just running out of them right before the next feeding time, because she would self regulate the amount she eats. If your bun just chows down on pellets, and won't eat much hay if there are pellets, then you do want to limit them so that your bunny will also eat hay. My bunnies were like that, and what I did was cut their pellets back to an amount, so that they ran out of pellets about 3 hours before the next feeding time, then they would have to eat their hay. I fed twice a day. Only if your bunny starts getting noticably fat or starts getting soft poops, would you need to cut the pellets back a little more. When she gets to be around 7 months old, you you will want to cut back on pellets a little more, to about 1/2 cup per 6 lb body weight. Then at a year old you will feed the adult amount of 1/4-1/2 cup per 6 lb body weight. It does vary with each rabbit. If your rabbit seems to put on weight easily, then you may have to go more towards the lower amount, or if your rabbit is very active and slim and doesn't keep weight on well, you may have to go with the higher amount. Just always keep an eye one your bunny to make sure that with the amount you are feeding, she stays at a healthy weight and doesn't get boney or chubby. It's just a bit of a balance act with rabbits. You just have to find out what works best for your rabbit, cause all rabbits are different.

It didn't seem like the pellets were the cause of the problem though. I would be more inclined to think that the cabbage was the culprit. So as long as you don't feed her cabbage again, she should be fine. You may also want to stay away from other cruciferous veggies, just in case she is sensitive to all of them. When she's 12 weeks, you can start introducing veggies again. Just start with one at a time and in small amounts and gradually increase, as long as there aren't any soft poops or stomach upset. Also limit sugary veggies like carrots and fruit as well.


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## Harley'sMummy (Mar 16, 2013)

Cabbage and its relatives are most definitely off the feeding list from now on!

She is eating all the pellets I am giving her at the moment, as soon as I put the bowl down she has her head in it and doesn't stop until they are all gone. She gets half her amount after we've eaten and got ready in the mornings and then the other half when we eat ourselves in the evenings. In the middle she has been munching happily on her hay.

Just curious, what does a normal weight rabbit feel like? Harley is nowhere near being overweight or chubby but you can feel her bones when you stroke her.


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## majorv (Mar 17, 2013)

Sounds like you could increase her pellets then. I did a little research and found that the breed was used for meat during WW II, so since it is considered a "commercial" rabbit then you shouldn't feel the back/hip bones on a Harlequin. Your bunny is still young...you might start weighing her so you can track her weight. We use a digital postal scale and set a shoebox on top to put the rabbit in for weighing.


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