# Head Tilt



## misha (Jun 15, 2012)

I have two bunnies, one German lop male and one dwarf female. The German lop, Paterson, is the one who usually gets sick buuuut on Wednesday night the dwarf, Bitsy, started suffering from head tilt.

I took her to the vet ASAP and managed to get her on a gut mobilizer and Baytril. I was generally unhappy with the care that I received so I decided to get a second opinion. In the meantime, I did as much research as I could and took a list of medications to the vet with me.

Unfortunately, they did not have Panacur. They will order it in on Monday after I get the results of her EC blood test on Monday.

Right now, she is on the following medications: Metacam, metoclopramide, and azithromycin (thanks to these forums). We discontinued the Baytril. Unfortunately, I only have enough metoclopramide for a few days and will have to ask them to order more in if you think that it will really keep helping. I only have enough Metacam for a few days but will request more of that if you guys think that it will help longterm, too.

I read about probiotics. Should I get her on some of those? I live in a small town in Northern Ontario so it's kind of hard to have to do anything fast.

I have read enough about head tilt to know that it is going to be a slow recovery and that there are going to be steps forward and backwards all at once. I'm optimistic that she will be okay. She's still really active but I am giving her Critical Care because while I know she IS drinking, I'm not sure if she is eating. There are a variety of foods in her cage and it has been padded with pool noodles to keep her from running into the cage and hurting herself.

sorry for the long post... I am really stressed out. I am feeling better NOW than I was before. At least I know that I am on the right track with treatment now


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## LakeCondo (Jun 16, 2012)

I don't have any experience with this, but it sounds like you got on it right away. As well as critical care, you may want to give her some pumpkin puree, not spiced. Baby food would be ok.


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## misha (Jun 16, 2012)

what will that help with? Right now I'm mostly concerned with the nausea since the vet doesn't have any reglan (metoclopramide) and I'm going to run out on Sunday 

is there anything I can get her OTC to help with that?


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## MiniLopHop (Jun 16, 2012)

I am struggling to help my Becky as well. I give her dramamine crushed up in baby food. It really seems to help with the dizzyness and has kept her eating. From what I understand it's very much like sea sickness.

I'm also giving her panacur incase it is EC. Does your little girl have an obvious ear infection? (hence the antibiotics). Probiotics are always very important when they are taking any oral antibiotics. I use them all the time just to help keep things going well.


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## misha (Jun 16, 2012)

I read you story and felt a strong connection. Bitsy is really closely bonded to Paterson (like Becky and Houdini) and I am trying hard to keep her feeling safe by keeping him around as much as possible. He has been acting out by eating one of the pool noodles but I've found that giving him treats when I'm fussing with her helps a bit.

I'm going to go and get some dramamine tomorrow. What is the dosage that you give to her? Will it be safe with the other medications? Thank you SOOO much for responding to me. I'm glad to at least know that other people are going through the same thing and that it DOES get better.

I am hoping that the specialty pet store in town has benebec.


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## MiniLopHop (Jun 16, 2012)

1/2 a tablet for little buns (5 ish pounds). 

Best of luck, it's a long road but don't give up the fight. PM any time.


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## Bunnylova4eva (Jun 16, 2012)

Your question about Metacam-I'd definitly continue it if possible. It's an anti-inflamatory so be it EC (it would help brain inflamation) or an ear infection (it would bring down swelling etc.) then it would be a good thing.

I'd keep an eye on output-when my bunny Jelly(rip) had headtilt and was on Baytril, she repeatedly ended up with GI stasis. If your bunny does ok with greens, I'd keep up with giving plenty-this helped my bunny alot.

Are there any signs that make you lean towards thinking it's more an ear infection or EC?


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## misha (Jun 16, 2012)

We did a bloodtest for EC and I will get the results back on Monday. I wanted to get Panacur and start her on it right away (and him, probably) but the vet didn't have any in a rabbit dose and wasn't comfortable opening and trying to divide a dogs dose. Since he will have to order it on Monday anyway (we saw the vet Friday around 5) we decided to wait for the bloodtest results to come back and treat it with ABs until then.

I don't know if she is eating greens yet but I am giving her CC three times a day and also offering her a water bottle. She is drinking and there are poops on the ground so I know she is eating and pooping!!

I'm about to give her dramamine and all of her meds. I'm really hoping that this is an ear infection and not EC since I won't be able to get Panacur until Wednesday if it is


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## MiniLopHop (Jun 16, 2012)

I'm using the dog panacur and dividing it up. I use a day of the week plastic pill dispenser, like old people use to track their medicine. I divide the dog packet into 8 even doses, one in each day of the week and the last into the little cup I mix everything in. It has worked well. It would probably be easier if you can get the specific dosing you need, but that wasn't really an option in our case so we did the calculations.

Oh, you can also try fresh lavendar. Becky likes that a lot. I think it helps her sleep better at night so I have been giving her some every evening. The other buns have to get their stalk too, it has been very popular.


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## misha (Jun 17, 2012)

I'm stressing out so much about not having the Panacur. I'm kind of mad that no one gave it to me even though it's possible that she has EC and I'm annoyed that I didn't push harder to get it.

The vet said that they couldn't give it to me because it had to be ordered specifically for her but then someone else told me that they divide it on their own. I hate not having what I need for her. I will divide it for her myself from the dog one on Monday if her results are positive or if I haven't gotten the results back yet.


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## Bunnylova4eva (Jun 17, 2012)

misha wrote:


> I'm stressing out so much about not having the Panacur. I'm kind of mad that no one gave it to me even though it's possible that she has EC and I'm annoyed that I didn't push harder to get it.
> 
> The vet said that they couldn't give it to me because it had to be ordered specifically for her but then someone else told me that they divide it on their own. I hate not having what I need for her. I will divide it for her myself from the dog one on Monday if her results are positive or if I haven't gotten the results back yet.



:yeahthat: I can agree on that-when Jelly (rip-my headtilt bunny) was sick they wouldn't give medication for it until they were positive EC was the cause...I was going insane konwing she was so sick and couldn't even try anything while we waited for the results. I know they don't want to treat something wrong, so I completely understand, but its about enough to make you wanna rip out your hair waiting till you can treat it.


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## MiniLopHop (Jun 17, 2012)

I know it is not useful to second guess, but I now think that Cinderella passed from EC. I had even mentioned it at the time but the vet dismissed my concerns, expaining that it was rare to cause symptoms. She was convinced that there was an ear infection- so we treated it with some apparent success. Two weeks later she went into seizures and never came out of it. I'm left wondering if I would have treated for EC if she would still be with me? Perhaps the vets really underestimate what EC can do?

I'm treating Becky on my own, which is why I'm dividing up the dog medicine. I gave her the prescribed anyibiotics, presumably for an ear infection. I'm not letting her go down the same road as Cinderella. So, since I can get the panacur and ivomectan on my own, that is what I'm doing. I have decided to use the ivomectan every 3 months on all of them as a preventative. I never want to be second guessing EC again.


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## misha (Jun 17, 2012)

I'm going to demand the Panacur tomorrow until I find out the results. I'm pissed that I am unable to treat her for a possibility. I don't understand why they won't just help me help her.


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## MiniLopHop (Jun 18, 2012)

I honestly think that vets underestimate EC as a disease agent. It is very wide-spead among rabbits and many show no signs of illness. Until recently they really havn't had any way to treat it successfully. Once it has progressed they advise putting them down, so who knows how many more have died from this cause that they thought was something else? It's frustrating trying to educate the vets, but I think this is one of the "newer" diseases that they are learning is more of an issue than they were taught about in vet school.

Even if the vet won't give you the panacur, you can get the dog version at petsmart or petco and divvy it up. It's better than not treating at all. I tend to be conservative, but on this issue I go rogue. :hug:


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## misha (Jun 18, 2012)

I have called every pet store in the area and looked for it under Safe-Guard and Panacur. All the vets I have called have shut me down and I just found out that the results may not come back for up to a week. I am losing it.

I don't know what else I can do at this point. Like, I called and tried to make them understand but it's like no one is listening to my concerns or taking them seriously...


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## MiniLopHop (Jun 18, 2012)

If nothing else you can order it. Perhaps rush shipping?

http://www.petco.com/product/105336...-_-8 in 1 safe-guard 4 Canine Dewormer-105336

This is what I am using. It is the same drug. I'm so sorry this is a horrible situation.


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## LindseyG (Jun 18, 2012)

If all else fails you can get ivermectin from a feed store 1% injectible formula. Give 1/10th cc per pound orally. This has really helped my little guy who has ec .


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## MyBabyHasPaws (Jun 18, 2012)

Hope all goes well today, sending positive vibes


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## misha (Jun 18, 2012)

Petco will only ship to the US


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## misha (Jun 19, 2012)

FINALLY got the Panacur!!! Thanks to everyone in this forum and thread. Without the info in here I doubt that she would be even remotely on her way to getting better regardless of what her illness is....


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## MiniLopHop (Jun 19, 2012)

I am so relieved you were able to get her medicine. How is she doing today?


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## Kitty88 (Jun 19, 2012)

My little girl Gracie is EC positive. I found out after rushing her to my vet when she came down with head tilt. Luckily, the vet I use is very experienced and has done a lot of work and research with the House Rabbit Society, and she made a complete recovery from the head tilt. The treatment he recommended was a combination of Panacur, Zenequin (a strong antibiotic, if I remember correctly), and Meclizine (anti-seasickness drug). Once I got the hang of getting her to take the medication, she started eating and drinking on her own. Definitely try to keep Bitsy hydrated, and ask for Dropamine or Meclizine. I think it helps them improve on their own quite a bit.


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## LakeCondo (Jun 20, 2012)

I'm glad things are moving in the right direction.


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## misha (Jun 20, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the positive thoughts and replies! She seems to be doing okay. The vet didn't want to renew her Metacam or the anti-biotic that she's on. I still have some Baytril though. I am giving her gravol to help with her feeling sick.

Every hour or so I go into the room and pick her up and give her some water from the bottle (they normally drink from a bowl) and she gets Critical Care three times a day. I have seen her eating herbs on her own. Dunno about hay.

This isn't really the best picture of her but it's kind of how she has been spending her time recently.







Paterson is the German lop beside her. He sometimes seems to sense that something is going on. You can see where he has been shredding the pool noodles that I am using to pad the sides of the cage. Once she started rolling I had to put blankets on the floor because it sounded like she was hurting herself when she was flopping around.

She seems able to move herself around the cage too. There's a few spots that she really likes being in and I find her around them all the time. Mostly the places where it will be hardest for me to grab her and give her the meds.

The last day or so I have noticed an increase in her drinking and eating. I don't know if it is because she's feeling better / getting used to what's going on or because I am sitting with her longer so she feels more comfortable or because we are finding better angles. Whatever it is, I see it as a positive thing and like it.

Basically: it is getting easier for all of us to deal with this. She is still strong and feisty and seems to be more "present".

But really thank you to everyone on this board. I really wish that vets in my area had more knowledge about all of this but am so glad that I was able to find a group of people so knowledgable and supportive!

here's a picture of her from better days:


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## Bunnylova4eva (Jun 20, 2012)

Maybe I missed it if you posted it but just curious if you ever found out if she ended up testing EC positive? 

Praying for your little girl! ray:


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## MiniLopHop (Jun 21, 2012)

Bitsy is so cute! It is a relief that you are seeing some improvement. It is a long haul, but she's a fighter. Having Paterson by her side surely helps keep her feisty and brave. It looks like you have a good set-up for keeping her safe when she's having control issues. I have blankets on the floor for Becky too. It makes me feel better that she won't accidentally injure herself. Becky also likes the small nooks and cranies to hide in. As she feels better she is out in the open more again, so it may not be about the medicine. The more confined spaces probably feel more secure.
:hug: ray:


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## misha (Jun 22, 2012)

The vet didn't refill the rx for the Metacam or the anti-biotic. Her EC bloodtest was inconclusive so they sent it to Miami FL to see if they could get a better reading on it. I still have some Baytril. I'm considering giving that to her in the meantime... are they supposed to be on an anti-biotic longterm? I'm so confused.


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## MiniLopHop (Jun 23, 2012)

If it is EC the antibiotic won't help. They only kill bacteria. The vet must not see any signs of infection that would warrent more antibiotics. I would stick to the panacur. It takes a long time to work, but you will slowly see progress.


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## misha (Jun 23, 2012)

I'm still not seeing progress physically. How long do you think it will take before I start seeing any. I got it / started giving it to her on Tuesday so it hasn't even been a week. How long before you saw results?

I mixed some crushed pellets, critical care, raspberries, bananas, and baby food together and she ate it like crazy. I guess that she doesn't like the flavour CC I have. I ordered some of the apple banana flavoured one but it won't get here until next week  Though she is drinking and eating herbs I wanted to make sure that she was also actually EATING something since she went off the CC.


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## MiniLopHop (Jun 23, 2012)

I have to mix the CC with baby food too. It took about two weeks before I started to see improvement. Even at 4 weeks out she still has symptoms so I'm going to continue another two weeks.


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## misha (Jun 24, 2012)

good to know. Thank you so much for all your help and support over this last little while... it's been really freaky but it is good to know that she is at least on the way to recovery.

We don't know for sure if it is EC and I'm unsure whether or not I should put her back on the Baytril. The other AB ran out and he didn't renew it for me.


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## MiniLopHop (Jun 24, 2012)

I never had the titer done because the vet said almost all buns have been exposed so she didn't think it was a useful test. I'm convinced just because of the results I have seen and how she is improving with the panacur. I wouldn't give her any more antibiotics if you have stopped and there isn't an obvious infection. I feel antibiotics, particularly oral, is really hard on them and more stress they don't need. It can also make it more difficult for them to eat.


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## misha (Jun 24, 2012)

yeah, she seems to be eating more right now since she has been off the ABs. She's still on the dramamine twice a day and the Panacur as well as her mush food. She's sitting up right now and is managing to resist the spinning and falling / rolling so I'm glad for that. Not sure if it's the food or the Panacur. She hasn't been rolling nearly as much though


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## MiniLopHop (Jun 24, 2012)

Excellent! Glad to hear she is getting relief. It probably is both the food and medicine. Now you just have to keep it up. :hug:


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## Bunnylova4eva (Jun 24, 2012)

MiniLopHop wrote:


> I never had the titer done because the vet said almost all buns have been exposed so she didn't think it was a useful test. I'm convinced just because of the results I have seen and how she is improving with the panacur.



Our vet told me the same thing about the titer when Jelly was sick (head tilt). We went for it though and did the test and it turned out negative. Unfortunately, by the time the results came, we'd already had to make the tough decision to put her down. So yeah I do think most times it will come back positive as so many have been exposed, but at least in our case, it was nice to know for sure it had been infection (like after putting her down we at least knew what it had been).


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## MiniLopHop (Jun 24, 2012)

Mia, I'm glad that it was able to give you some peace of mind. What a horribly difficult decision to be forced to make.


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## Bunnylova4eva (Jun 24, 2012)

Yep, not that either would have been necesarily easier to treat but in our case, she'd had an ear infection but later when swabbed after antibiotics it showed she didn't have one. Then she had head tilt though so I was sure she had an inner/middle one. Hence the reason for the EC titer. I wish we'd been able to treat her, but at this point I find it terribly interesting seeing what other people are finding that seem to be working.


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## misha (Jun 25, 2012)

I think that I am seeing improvements in her. Slowly but surely!!


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## JadeIcing (Jun 25, 2012)

For EC several test should be over a few weeks to get a better picture.


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## misha (Jun 26, 2012)

I was okay with getting her the one test but each test is 200$ and to be honest, I don't see much point in getting them done if I continue to see an improvement over the next little while.

I'm not even sure if I AM seeing an improvement but she is eating a lot, drinking a lot and is standing more. I take those all as good signs


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## MyBabyHasPaws (Jun 26, 2012)

Why are they sending it to Miami, FL? University of Miami Biology?

Hope she gets better fast


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## JadeIcing (Jun 26, 2012)

Agree.


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## misha (Jun 27, 2012)

Hi everyone! Just wanted to pop in with a photo update!







when she would try to drink out of that bowl before she would fall over (often INTO it). Her tilt is way less pronounced than it was a few days ago.

thanks for all the information and support that I have gotten.


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## MiniLopHop (Jun 28, 2012)

Wonderful! She is looking so much better! I'm sure you are much relieved that there's finally progress. *hugs and nosebonks*


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## misha (Jun 28, 2012)

ugh. Now she has an eye irritation. It's red and a bit puffy. The vet can't see her today. Is there something else I can do for her or am I stuck waiting? Polysporin eyedrops? Anything??


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## misha (Jun 28, 2012)

I just read this:

"Then we moved to Texas. The ointment seemed to hurt her eyes, so we consulted Dr. M.J. Shifrin, of the Austin Animal Eye Clinic. He advised switching to an over-the-counter eye lubricant, such as Celluvisc or Lacrilube. Regular use of this people product seems effective as Holly has gone nine months without a scratch. He also said to try to keep this fastidious animal from washing her face. She didn't understand that order at all."

does anyone have any experience?


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## MiniLopHop (Jun 28, 2012)

*misha wrote: *


> I just read this:
> 
> "Then we moved to Texas. The ointment seemed to hurt her eyes, so we consulted Dr. M.J. Shifrin, of the Austin Animal Eye Clinic. He advised switching to an over-the-counter eye lubricant, such as Celluvisc or Lacrilube. Regular use of this people product seems effective as Holly has gone nine months without a scratch. He also said to try to keep this fastidious animal from washing her face. She didn't understand that order at all."
> 
> does anyone have any experience?



Becky also tends towards eye irritation. This is what I use for her:

http://www.similasanusa.com/allergy-eye-relief

It helps keep things soothed. It can be challenging to get the drops into the "down" eye, but it really helps. They also have a soothing version, but because she tends to react to dust I wanted to go with the allergy version to cover bases.


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## misha (Jun 28, 2012)

I got her some Cirpofloxacin from the vet 1.5 hours away. It's really red and puffy but today when I gave her the drops I offered her the water bottle and she drank a lot. I think that she might have been dehydrated and that made it worse. I'll give her the drops though until she's back to being able to stand properly. I think that the water was a big help too. She had been refusing the water bottle and like, pushing it away with her chin all aggressively. It's pretty warm today tho.


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## misha (Jun 29, 2012)

So today's update: with the drops her eye is less red. I'm also seeing more of an improvement in her balance. No rolling, no stumbling or tipping or anything! She does still go in circles from time to time but that's it.

Her tilt is still there but it's getting less and less. Her "down" eye is even open more today than it has been since this all began. All in all, she's doing much better!


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## ZRabbits (Jul 4, 2012)

Glad to hear she's starting to show improvement. Neville took a bit, but he's right as rain now. That's why we call him Level Neville. 

When it happens, it just breaks your heart. But quick response, medical attention and comfort will get them through this. 

K


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## misha (Jul 4, 2012)

the bloodtest came back "Highly Positive". Thanks vet! The Panacur treatment is going so well that her tilt is minimal now. Every day she's getting better. So glad to have this community around


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## ZRabbits (Jul 4, 2012)

So thrilled to hear. Thanks so much for the update.

K


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## rae18 (Jul 6, 2012)

My rabbit Pugsley had the same thing twice! His was called Ryeneck and the doctor gave us antibiotics... We crushed them up and fed them to him with pumpkin... I lasted for about two weeks and he is completly back to normal.. Some rabbits necks are stuck like that if it is a really severe case.. My vet said that my rabbit could die, his case was that serious! I recommend pumpkin in a can!


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