# Questions for Breeders



## hannah_biota (Feb 10, 2013)

There will be a rabbit show near me in about a month & I would like to talk to some breeders while I am there. As someone who has never owned a bunny or purchased an animal before, what kinds of questions should I be asking them? What should I watch out for as far as 'red flags' go? And what kinds of questions should they be asking me? Should I be prepared for the possibility of coming home with a bunny while I am there? 

Thank you in advance for taking the time to help educate me


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## woahlookitsme (Feb 10, 2013)

you are looking for a holland so your daughter can start showing right?

Hollands can be VERY competitive. Finding a NICE one of very high show quality comes with a pretty big price. Look for a breeder who is compassionate and knowledgeable about the breed. Sometimes if the rabbit is going to a new show person the breeder will let down on the price or try to find a spectacular animal to sell. If you dont know what you are looking for in a holland this will be difficult to evaluate. 

Read up on anything you can find on how to evaluate hollands. This is an awesome site with pictures made by a forum member (oakridgerabbits aka Julie). 
http://oakridgerabbitry.weebly.com/holland-lop-type.html

As far as questions just tell them what you are looking for and try to talk to the breeder about how to evalute an animal they are selling or what they think of a certain animal. A problem to avoid in all animals are dipped or long shoulders (this is a horrible thing to start with and get rid of in a breeding program). When I sell the animal i usually ask what are you looking for, what are these rabbits being purchased for, are you looking for a pet or show stock, have you ever raised rabbit before, etc.
Oh when getting the animal ask the breeder if they use a bottle or crock/bowl. Bowls are always easier but if you have a bottle and the rabbit doesn't know how to drink from it they can become dehydrated. I think that will get this thread started. Let us know if you have any other questions!


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## majorv (Feb 10, 2013)

Have you done research on Holland Lops? It's best to go there knowing what the standards are for that breed so you can ask specific questions and know what to avoid. If you're only getting one then you need to decide whether you want a doe or buck. How old a rabbit are you looking for, and how much you're prepared to spend on one. Breeders should be more than happy to talk to you when they're not busy preparing to show. Watch the judging of the Hollands and listen to the judge's comments.


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## hannah_biota (Feb 10, 2013)

Thank you for the great advice and link too! I was having such a hard time finding nice, clear comparisons like that. The research is definitely ongoing, and still at the beginning stage, so I do not think we will be ready to take anything home from the show next month. 
I am definitely open to getting two rabbits but still undecided on bucks or does, leaning toward does as I know my daughter really wants a girl ..though I am worried about them getting along as I would like to house them together if possible.
We definitely want a younger rabbit, which I understand are more difficult to evaluate, but we also may be looking at getting a 'decent' show prospect instead of a spectacular one as I want to keep the budget at less than $200 for the first one. If my daughter becomes passionate about showing, we can increase the budget in the future.

Honestly, I think the gender and quantity (1 or 2) are some of my biggest uncertainties right now.. I understand that rabbits generally prefer to be in the company of each other so that is a major factor in wanting two.


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## Korr_and_Sophie (Feb 10, 2013)

I would be hesitant to have 2 together. 2 bucks will usually fight. Intact does can fight as well and they tend to be more territorial. Being siblings or raised together from a young age does not matter once hormones kick in. Getting them spayed or neutered really helps with bonding, but then you can't show them. I would get one now and then consider a second one later on, but keep them in separate cages. 

As for what to ask breeders, I can't really help with what to look for in a show rabbit. You do want a healthy rabbit and one both you and your daughter can handle. Look the rabbit over checking the teeth, eyes, ears, nose, nails (don't want them too long plus nail colour can be a DQ). Any sort of discharge can be a sign of illness. Also check for signs of mites and other skin issues (it may look like dandruff or crustiness). Since your daughter is the one who will be showing the rabbit, she needs to be able to handle it easily, so get her to handle the rabbit once you have looked it over. 
Definitely be prepared to bring a rabbit home. Have a cage set up at home and supplies ready. It doesn't have to be totally set up, but should be easy enough to get ready if you do take one home. Bring a suitable sized carrier with bedding and food and water dishes, some hay inside is good as well. The breeder you get the rabbit from should have some pellets for you. Make sure to get the pedigree there as it can be hard to get it later from some breeders, just better to get it done while you are there.


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## hannah_biota (Feb 10, 2013)

Thank you for your response, Kate! I am actually very relieved to hear that I shouldn't have two unaltered rabbits of the same gender together. I was figuring that I should get young buns at the same time so they would bond..but happy to hear that that is not necessary..or even a good idea  

Oh, I will definitely be prepared, equipment wise, before bringing our bunny home  I'm just not sure if we will be ready, education wise, within a month. I'm thinking we will not be ready but I am eager to meet some breeders and put my feelers out, so to speak


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## woahlookitsme (Feb 10, 2013)

Be weary because there are a lot of cheap rabbits at shows. They are usually not of the best quality but sometimes you might get lucky. With Hollands I would suggest getting an older rabbit maybe even a young senior(6mos+) so you know what the rabbit looks like and have an idea of how it will do on the table. Hollands go through some really bad ugly stages and it can be very deceiving for inexperienced people. Everyone's lines develop differently. If you get too young of a rabbit it could completely change by the time it gets older (we have bought one of these before in polish and ended up later selling him because he grew to be a pet quality buck)


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## hannah_biota (Feb 10, 2013)

Thank you all, I am already learning soooo much here! 

Should the parents have legs or be titled, etc or how important is that? 

If anyone has Holland Lop breeder recommendations and would like to PM me, I would definitely appreciate it! (If that is okay to do on this forum, I read the rules thread & didn't see that mentioned, that's just how we do it on my dog forum  )


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## majorv (Feb 11, 2013)

Buying a Holland whose parents have legs or have their GC aren't necessary. It's one indicator that the parents showed well, but all the other factors that have been mentioned will also play a part in your decision. I agree that even though you don't plan to get a rabbit at the show you plan to go to, it wouldn't hurt to have a cage and carrier, just in case! I remember going with my daughter and a rabbit breeder friend to a local rabbit show. My daughter was looking for a breed to start showing. We never planned to get anything...just look, but we ended up bringing home a Dutch! :rollseyes

There are 1-2 breeders on this forum who raise Hollands. They may be able to offer some names to you.


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## hannah_biota (Feb 11, 2013)

The crate is not a bad idea, hehehe. I'll sneak it in the trunk so the kid doesn't get any crazy ideas lol!


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## Korr_and_Sophie (Feb 11, 2013)

If you have a good idea of the breeders in your area, contacting some before hand or even contacting through Facebook can be helpful. It gives you an idea on who in your area has Hollands, what they might be selling and you can have more of a clear head with looking. If there are some breeders or rabbits that interest you,write them down so you can look more specifically at a show. There are some breeders who limit the sale rabbits they take to a show due to space, so might only bring something if someone is interested. Some larger shows may limit rabbits only there to be sold or charge a small fee, this is usually due to space and giving priority to rabbits bring shown.


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## hannah_biota (Feb 11, 2013)

Oh gosh, I'm getting nervous thinking about it! I've been busy reading up on the standards and have found a few breeders that interest me, but the more I learn the more breeders get weeded out so I extend my distance parameters lol. It's hard because most breeders are pretty far from me (3+ hrs) and photos can be deceiving, especially to my untrained eye! I have found that a lot of breeders that other breeders mention on their websites aren't listed with the regional clubs, so I'm not sure who I am missing out on and who is reputable.


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## Troller (Feb 11, 2013)

Check https://www.arba.net/ and see if there is a club that mentions sweepstakes. High placed winners in the field generally denote breeders who have very good quality stock and are trusted. That's how I found Xena and the breeder was surprised that she got a call from me since she generally doesn't advertise. Disregard all this if you knew this already.


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## hannah_biota (Feb 11, 2013)

There is one breeder that I am really liking, but their sale policy is definitely more restrictive than any of the others I have seen & I want to make sure I understand it before I contact them. If anyone would like to evaluate and comment on it, I will PM it to you as I don't want to publicly discuss a particular breeder with out their knowledge. Thanks. 

Thank you for the tip, Troller!


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## woahlookitsme (Feb 11, 2013)

be weary of sweepstakes though. Sometimes it takes just having lots of animals to show and not necessarily doing good to get points. Points that are more truing to the breeder are quality points. This takes account wins and such. 

I would highly recommend doing some research on facebook. Posting what you are looking for on the ARBA page might give you names of people who aren't registered or on websites. Word of mouth can go a long way for some people. I know that's how I came up to be known in Tans was by putting out great animals and other people noticing them and asking who the breeder was. Everyone would say sarah who? lol


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## majorv (Feb 11, 2013)

Totally agree with Sarah. It is helpful to look at the sweepstakes standings, but the more accurate ones that reflect rabbit quality are the standings in the Quality Points. It's based on the placings in shows (where BOB gives more points than BOV) and not on how many rabbits you entered. I used that when I was starting in Polish. Go to the national breed club website as well as any state or regional clubs websites around you also. You'll get an idea of the breeders in the area.


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## hannah_biota (Feb 11, 2013)

Thank you so much! You all have given me so much excellent advice! I am looking forward to tracking down some bunnies that interest us 

Another question- how likely is a breeder to sell something that is not listed for sale? Should I even ask? lol


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## woahlookitsme (Feb 11, 2013)

YES YOU SHOULD! lol. Everything in a rabbitry usually has a price. It all depends on how much you are willing to spend. Some rabbitries showing in open, if they know a youth is trying to get into showing, will either discount a rabbit, sell a nice herd or brood animal, or do a nice price on a pair. I would definitely ask because you never know.


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## Korr_and_Sophie (Feb 11, 2013)

Many breeders don't update their website very often, so what you see listed for sale could be from months ago. It never hurts to ask, but maybe don't ask for a specific rabbit if you see the website is out of date. I would suggest saying what you are looking for (breed, sex etc) and why you want one and see what the breeder has.


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## ladysown (Feb 11, 2013)

you can mention concerns about a sales policy without mentioning names.

Sales policies tend to be 
1. don't guarantee placement on the table
2. don't guarantee reproductive ability
3. do or do not offer a health guarantee and there are good reasons both ways.
4. do or do not guarantee gender (some buns mature later than others)

some add such things as
if sold to a pet home do not breed.
right of first refusal (which may or may not be honoured)


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## hannah_biota (Feb 11, 2013)

Ok, this was the part of the policy that I was wondering about:

_Except for show purposes, at no time will a (rabbitry name) rabbit leave the Buyers residence intact for any reason, including but not limited to the sale, replacement, gift, pet, or paid/free lease purposes. _

Like I can never leave the rabbit with a friend or family when I vacation? Can't take him/her to an on location photo shoot? With the above requirement, I just don't know if I would ever really feel like our bunny was 'ours'.


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## woahlookitsme (Feb 11, 2013)

I understand but I think they mean permanently leaving your residence. They have a super strict policy and my mom agrees. If you find another breeder I might go with another instead. 

I found someone who knows holland breeders in WA!! Ill send you her message


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## hannah_biota (Feb 11, 2013)

I think you may be right & I am probably taking it too literally lol. I really do like their rabbits and am thinking that I may contact them still. Thank you again for finding me those references too Sarah!


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## hannah_biota (Mar 5, 2013)

I have a little update! One of the litters I am wait listed on has kindled! There are 3 kits in the litter & I am #4 on the waitlist but 2 of them want does so if there are two bucks in the litter, then I should be getting one of them! Both parents have their G.C.'s and are just gorgeous! Please keep your fingers crossed that we have 2 healthy bucks in the litter!


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## Azerane (Mar 5, 2013)

I really don't know much about showing rabbits etc, but my thoughts in terms of male versus female go as such. Unaltered female rabbits (which yours will be if you want to show her) have high chances of getting cancer, and as such I believe don't live as long. In addition to this, I feel like (I could be wrong as I don't breed), a buck has longer breeding age potential than a doe does. So if you get a doe first and it's a couple of years before you decide you want to breed etc, your doe might be too old for a first litter. A buck however at a couple of years old, is likely still very capable of fathering kits. If in the end, you decide you don't want to breed but still show your rabbits, a buck will likely end up living longer anyway because of the cancer issue.

Happy to be corrected on any of those remarks, just thought it was something to consider. I see that you're possibly getting a buck anyway *fingers crossed* but see how it goes


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## ladysown (Mar 5, 2013)

> Except for show purposes, at no time will a (rabbitry name) rabbit leave the Buyer&#8217;s residence intact for any reason, including but not limited to the sale, replacement, gift, pet, or paid/free lease purposes.



what is the purpose of this requirement?

And just how is someone going to enforce it??

and then too... does the rabbit really belong to the buyer??


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## woahlookitsme (Mar 5, 2013)

female rabbits do have a higher chance of uterine adenocarcinoma but I have known plenty of breeders that tell me their does have lived till their early and late teens. If a doe is continuously used for breeding she has a lesser chance. It is when they are spayed and not used for breeding is when there can be trouble. A buck for trying out a breed is the best because you aren't on a deadline to get him bred. There is an age you should pass before trying but they are able to breed whenever you like.

I am so excited! I hope they have a baby boy for you


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## Azerane (Mar 6, 2013)

woahlookitsme said:


> female rabbits do have a higher chance of uterine adenocarcinoma but I have known plenty of breeders that tell me their does have lived till their early and late teens. If a doe is continuously used for breeding she has a lesser chance.



I had wondered that about whether breeding reduced the level of risk. Now I know, thanks for that


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## hannah_biota (Mar 6, 2013)

Thanks! I'm really anxious to find out! There is also a rabbit show the weekend after next that we are getting excited about! Hopefully soon I will actually have a rabbit to talk about


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## missyscove (Mar 6, 2013)

woahlookitsme said:


> female rabbits do have a higher chance of uterine adenocarcinoma but I have known plenty of breeders that tell me their does have lived till their early and late teens. If a doe is continuously used for breeding she has a lesser chance. It is when they are spayed and not used for breeding is when there can be trouble. A buck for trying out a breed is the best because you aren't on a deadline to get him bred. There is an age you should pass before trying but they are able to breed whenever you like.
> 
> I am so excited! I hope they have a baby boy for you



I think perhaps you mean it's when they are not spayed? Spayed rabbits cannot get uterine cancer because their uterus is gone.

I've never owned an intact female (both of my females have been adopted from shelters/rescues that spayed them already), but my first female did end up with mamary cancer which had spread even though we had her tumor removed. An early spay would have helped protect her against mammary cancer as well.


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## woahlookitsme (Mar 6, 2013)

lol yea thats what i meant!  

Yay Im so happy you found a bunny! make sure to post tons of pics!!


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## Azerane (Mar 7, 2013)

missyscove said:


> I think perhaps you mean it's when they are not spayed? Spayed rabbits cannot get uterine cancer because their uterus is gone.



I read it the correct way anyway, lol.


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