# Breeders responsibility about split penis



## crimson (Dec 4, 2011)

I am sort of in the middle on this problem because I am friends with both parties and both have asked for my opinion. 

A breeder sold what she thought was a doe to another breeder. This doe had even been show and placed by the originally breeder.

Now the breeder who bought the rabbit found out the doe is actually a buck with a split penis.

The breeder who bought the rabbit wants her money back or a replacement for the rabbit.

The breeder who sold the rabbit says her rabbits are sold "as is".

I see both points of view, but here is my OPINION. First the breeder did not intentionally sell a rabbit with a split penis. Even the judges didn't catch it when the rabbit was shown. Second when a rabbit is sold to a breeder I think it is their responsibility to check teeth, sex, and toenails when they buy the rabbit. I have bought rabbits before that turn out to be a different sex then they really were. I have never gone back to the breeder, but either kept them or sold them. I also bought a rabbit that died on transport. The breeder offered me a discount on another rabbit, but I don't think she was under any obligation to do that. My personally feeling is the rabbit with the split penis could be sold as a pet. I know they wouldn't get back what they paid for the rabbit, but chalk it up to experience. Also they bunny world is small is it worth the price of a rabbit to cause ill feelings.
Now all that said I know I will cause ill feelings to one or the other parties. Do you think I am totally wrong? I could also say to the breeder it is worth a bad reputation give the other breeder the money back or another rabbit. HELP


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## MiniLopHop (Dec 4, 2011)

I am not a breeder, but I recently bought a rabbit from one as a pet. I knew to check the teeth, ears, eyes, and sex of the rabbit before I gave her the money. If a novice person knows to do this, then shouldn't an experienced breeder?

I feel that it was an honest mistake on the seller's part, she sold the rabbit in good faith. The buyer should just suck it up and sell it for a pet if they don't want it.


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## pamnock (Dec 4, 2011)

Split penis is not always easy to detect and is often missed even by experienced breeders and judges. 

However, it is a congential deformity that is a disqualification and most certainly, an ethical breeder should replace this animal or refund the $$$$ without question.


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## Korr_and_Sophie (Dec 4, 2011)

I think it can depend on what the rabbit was sold as, pet, show or breeding. If it was sold as a pet, then it doesn't matter as much. But if it was sold as a show rabbit or for breeding, then is does make a bigger difference. While a breeder can't guarantee if a rabbit will do well in a show or will produce, I think they should still do the best they can to give the buyer what they want. A show rabbit should not have any DQ's and should ideally be able to do well. A breeding rabbit should be the right sex and have something the buyer is looking for as well as not having any health issues that could be passed down (and I believe a split penis is genetic). 
While I have not deal with it, a split penis could be hard to tell if the rabbit is not fully developed. It would be easy to say it is a split penis once the testicles descend, but before that you would have to know what you are looking for. Even a more experienced buyer might not know what to look for and could just think it is a doe. 

The sales policy also makes a difference. If the buyer went into this knowing the policy and the policy is on a website, then it is more buyer beware. 

I would think that a breeder would want to make this right, or at least help. A split penis really isn't anyone's fault, but the buyer is still unhappy with what they got. Maybe a discount on a future rabbit or a partial refund could be worked out. If there is nothing else wrong with the rabbit, then it could be sold as a pet and the buyer could at least get some money back from that.


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## HappyFarmBunnies (Dec 5, 2011)

I voted "Yes" in the poll, but with a caveat--I would only refund 50% of the money. That way, it's fair to both parties and the best way to keep things smooth and move along the quickest. 

I would also say that it is somewhat dependent on the sales policy of the breeder--if the buyer knew that it was sold as-is, then technically, that's just their too bad and they'll profit from this learning experience. But like I say, the gracious thing to do is to refund only 50% of the price paid and move on.


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## Nancy McClelland (Dec 5, 2011)

I agree with Pam. The first breeder is still responsible for selling a bunny with a genetic defect and should do the right thing--giving a refund or another bunny.


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## I_heart_Fraggles (Dec 6, 2011)

I have never shown rabbits but I have shown and raised standard poodles. Puppies for show or pet by a good breeder are always given a health guarantee and a genetic health guarantee. I have even bought a dog that had a mapped dna profile in the paperwork. I'm not saying that the same should go for rabbits. But a good rabbit breeder should be able to guarantee that there animal is free of disease and genetic defects or your money back.


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## Rosalie (Dec 7, 2011)

I would say refund or trade for a replacement just to keep up reputation as a good honest breeder


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## LaylaLop (Dec 7, 2011)

Or offer the same amount of purchase fee to be put towards a new rabbit.. I used to breed gerbils and once had a person who had a baby gerbil die due to a seizure which sometimes happens randomly and cannot be predicted. I told them the adoption fee would be waived on a same sex as the deceased one of their choice, and I would even bond the new one to their other one to make sure they got along. I know it's slightly different, but I would give them something back.. whether it be $50 off a new rabbit of their choice (or whatever the fee is), or a new animal.


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## Blaze_Amita (Dec 29, 2011)

I marked no, only because I'm also a halfway person. I had a dutch buck with split penis when I was winding my herd down, last child of a certain doe. The buyer wanted that doe's bloodline and to me the rabbit was a doe when I sexed. Push came to shove and it turned out buck with split penis. the doe who's bloodlines the buyer wanted passed away, so all she had was teh buck with the split penis to deal with. It is stated in my sale's policy that rabbits are sold as is, but if genetic problems pop up, to please inform me, let me see said rabbit, and we will work something out. This way I know of a genetic problem in my bloodlines and i know when a person is being honest with me by letting me see the rabbit again- basically proving it. Anybody can type up a statement and falsify a vet statement saying this or that is genetically wrong with a rabbit- so I must put my own eyes and hands on something that is wrong. If it is my own genetics, then yes, I will refund partial or exchange. 

When I bought a dutch off of Honey Bunny's, he turned up malacclusion. it was something I wanted the breeder to be aware of but I still loved the bunny anyway. I refused to take anything because I had checked him before buying(except teeth) but wanted them to be aware of the situation. It could have been the bunny chewing on the cage wire when I wasn't looking we weren't completely sure. Either way, I had checked him myself(minus teeth) and thus I took it as a lesson learned.


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## CCWelch (Jan 6, 2012)

I have a big problem with this one, because I see both sides also. Because the rabbit was shown and placed this means the split penis was not noticed by a reputable rabbit judge, it was seen as a doe. I have had does that start out looking like a split penis buck early on, then about 8 to 12 weeks it straightens out and is obviously a doe. I currently have one that started that way and she has a litter right now, she bred fine and kindled fine.

On the other hand because it has now been verified as a split penis, the original breeder should at least offer a replacement or at the minimum a partial refund, just to save face if for no other reason.

Nothing can ruin a breeders reputation faster than being stubborn about something that is wrong with a rabbit. The rumor spreads like wildfire among the rabbit community.


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## NorthernAutumn (Jan 6, 2012)

Not a breeder, but I have some ideas about responsibility 

I agree with Pam, full refund and the rabbit goes back to the original breeder OR a trade. 

Alternately it would be a partial refund if the new owner decides to keep the rabbit (and pets it out later). 

(The physical live rabbit still has a $$$ value - just not in the breeder's marketplace. It can still be sold as a pet) 

Maybe an additional discount on the next bun purchased as a sign of goodwill?


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