# 200 Rabbits Rescued in Colorado



## Inle_Rabbitry

http://www.9news.com/news/article/209235/339/200-rabbits-seized-from-deplorable-conditions

The details are a little vague currently regarding the situation, however, the report describes that 200 rabbits were seized from a "breeder". They were found with no water and confined in a small building, in cages piled with feces. A handful were already dead.

Here's a link to the shelter that will be taking donations and adopting the rescued rabbits out-
www.foothillsanimalshelter.org.

It's frustrating to see someone call themselves a breeder of show animals, yet they keep those animals in such deplorable conditions. It's sickening.

Please help these rabbits out if you can!


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## Kipcha

It gets real sad, seeing how many seizures there are. How can people be so irresponsible? Then again, I've seen it first hand, although not nearly on this scale.

Hopefully these buns can be helped.


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## racerabbits

Hearing just what the news wants you to hear shouldn't make up your mind on this ordeal of the "200 rabbits seized" in CO.

How about facts that the news didn't report?

- the owner was not home when Animal Control came. they did not call her at work to ask her to come and meet with them, they went into her BARN, not a shed, uninvited.

-the shed is a large wood framed building that has a large swamp cooler and 2 large fans to keep the air circulating. when it is 98 outside and the inside temp is 84, that is great for the rabbits. they chill, undisturbed, during the heat of the day.

-they were all watered at 5:30 that morning. by 10:30, some had dumped their crocks. they didn't have feed because they are fed and watered in the evening. they get 1 ounce of pellets per pound of weight. did I say, all are watered 2 times a day?

-they were safe and secure in large wire cages. that is how most rabbits are raised, in cages. they all had drop pans that were to be dumped on the weekend, when her help comes.

-angoras aren't groomed everyday. they are groomed for shows. they are used for their wool and are meat rabbits for food.

-having many different breeds in the barn, you need to have quite a few of each breed to have a breeding program. a few does had babies in their nest boxes.

-the owner offered detailed info on all the rabbits, DOB, breed, names, breeding info, but AC didn't care that she had all of their records.

-they plan to feed the leafy greens--are asking the public for donations. these rabbits eat rabbit pellets and grass hay...the greens will most likely make them sick.

-they were put into boxes with no ventalation on the sides and some probably are living in those boxes.

-the breeder furnishes 4-H kids with projects, harvests the wool, sells meat rabbits for those that eat rabbit, furnishes animals for Raptor Centers and the major Zoo in Denver. 

-it is possible to love your rabbits, as livestock, just like people love their pet rabbits.

-many people in the USA and abroad raise rabbits for show, and take pride in doing so.

Get all the facts. Rabbits are livestock and yes, some people will make a pet of a rabbit, but that isn't their main purpose. I understand your "pet" side, please understand our "livestock" side.


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## racerabbits

It is another EVENT for House Rabbit Society VS. American Rabbit Breeders Assn. Breeders VS. pets.
The 2 will never agree. 
Get ALL the facts before judging, or are we not in America?


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## Yield

How do you know all of that racerabbits? (not starting a fight, I'm just curious.)

I dunno what to think `bout all of this. Two sides. There's something terrible either way you look at it. It's either "Rabbits in *bad conditions* and saved." or "Rabbits in fine conditions but *seized* anyways." :/


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## JadeIcing

If the owner was not guilty, if they can prove they were doing right why sign them over?

http://www.foothillsanimalshelter.org/wp-content/uploads/Rabbit-Document.jpg


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## Kipcha

I would like to note that I am not anti RESPONSIBLE breeding, in fact, we attend many of the ARBA shows in our area to perform alongside them and I am personal friends with quite a few of the breeders. Heck, the main sponsor for our club right now is a very responsible pet store owner.

That being said,

29 degrees is still pretty hot for rabbits, so really, they SHOULD have water at all times. During these hot times of year, perhaps a way that the crocks could not be tipped, or more frequent watering would have been more efficient. I know quite a few breeders around here crack out some water bottles and get them used to those during the warm monthes, so really, there is no excuse for not having water availible to these bunnies at all times, especially being so warm.

What difference does it make if the owner was home or not? Honestly, I think there should be more surprise visits so people can't suddenly have a wonderful facility only to have it fall to ruins once more when they are no longer threatened by legal action.

What time is "the evening", anyways? If those rabbits dumo their water by 10:30, and the "evening" could, perhaps, be 6:00, then those rabbits go without water for at least 7 and a half hours, which is ridiculous. What about the ones that tip their crocks right away? I've seen it happen.

No, but angora's should have fairly regular grooming, I know Lillian in our club gets it. Heck, I know a breeder with quite a few angoras who is constantly grooming her bunnies. So there is no excuse to have wool rabbits if you are not going to care for them properly.

If properly introduced, greens should not make them sick... Unless you're feeding it to buns too young. I've had plenty of rescues with rabbits that have never had greens that take them perfectly well and do not get sick. Perhaps you should not have so many rabbits if you need to rely on donations? Breeding and rescuing are two different things.

I highly doubt they are licing in unventalated boxes at the rescue... In fact, I doubt they are in unventalated boxes at all.

I'm not trying to make accusations, just trying to figure the situation out.


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## Nancy McClelland

:yeahthat: Having a great deal of trouble with the rebuttal. Many more questions do come to mind, but I find that research usually takes me further than word of mouth coming from either side. Unlike Ronald Reagan, I don't find the facts to be "hard".


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## Kipcha

http://www.9news.com/news/article/209422/188/Crime-Stoppers-tip-led-to-rescue-of-200-rabbits-

I dunno, it seems like all signs are pointing to neglect to me...


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## racerabbits

The lady in question belongs to our regional, state, and nationals rabbit breeders club. I have been in her barn 20-30 times in the past 2 years. She has had the Denver Post newspaper come to her barn and do specials on her and she also is the head person and for the rabbits at the Denver Stock Show. She is a rabbit breeder and shows at shows, she is big in the 4-H program for rabbits, not a hoarder, and those of us that know her will agree.

She wasn't given a chance to meet with Animal Control about the tip they were acting on. 

I admire the House Rabbit Society, but they need to respect those of us that breed rabbits too. We consider rabbits livestock --some people choose to make of pet of them. There are bad people on both teams. This lady isn't one of them.


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## racerabbits

the first part continues from my previous post, futher down, I reply to the other post.

-they were all watered at 5:30 that morning. by 10:30, some had dumped their crocks. they didn't have feed because they are fed and watered in the evening. they get 1 ounce of pellets per pound of weight. did I say, all are watered 2 times a day?

I agree about constant water. She has a watering system for most of her rabbits and the ones with crocks are the large breeds. I don't know why a couple of them had tipped the crocks over. It is a good idea to make a wire frame for them...will pass that on.

-they plan to feed the leafy greens--are asking the public for donations. these rabbits eat rabbit pellets and grass hay...the greens will most likely make them sick.

"they" are the Animal Control people, not my friend. I agree that some greens/vegs in a small quanity are good for all rabbits that are over 3 months of age. these rabbits NEED the same pellets they were being fed, not a radical change of diet.

-angoras aren't groomed everyday. they are groomed for shows. they are used for their wool and are meat rabbits for food.


she grooms them other than just for shows, but what I was getting at is not all of your wool breeds in your breeding programs are beautifully groomed everyday.


-they were put into boxes with no ventalation on the sides and some probably are living in those boxes.

when removed from her barn, the rabbits were put into "cat" boxes and loaded in a stock trailer. they did not have air coming in on them at all. at the place they are being kept, many are housed together in dog kennels, walking in their own poo and pee. my friend kept each adult rabbit in a separate cage, only weaned babies, young junior, and moms with litters shared cages.

Reply to a specific question:

What difference does it make if the owner was home or not? Honestly, I think there should be more surprise visits so people can't suddenly have a wonderful facility only to have it fall to ruins once more when they are no longer threatened by legal action.


** I disagree. They should have waited until the owner arrived. We live in America and have rights. Walking through the barn with her, working with her. She would have let them come in w/o issue. She welcomes any one to come and visit her rabbitry and farm. 


I am not saying there weren't problem areas, we all have those, I am saying she should have been given the chance to work with Animal Control towards an agreeable outcome. 

For sure, one big thing came from this seizure...no one in Colorado will be letting people into their barns to look at the bunnies.


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## Pipp

*Yield wrote: *


> Two sides. There's something terrible either way you look at it. It's either "Rabbits in *bad conditions* and saved." or "Rabbits in fine conditions but *seized* anyways." :/



Yield, I really agree with this. Bad situation no matter what.


*racerabbits wrote: *


> She wasn't given a chance to meet with Animal Control about the tip they were acting on.
> 
> I admire the House Rabbit Society, but they need to respect those of us that breed rabbits too. We consider rabbits livestock --some people choose to make of pet of them. There are bad people on both teams. This lady isn't one of them.



racerabbits, when I read how this breeder was keeping her rabbits, I really wasn't impressed simply because I hate that style of housing and I obviously hate rabbits being fed to raptors. And I hate the whole attitude about livestock -- I was particularly irked about the comment saying that's what the animals were for, because animals were not put on this earth to feed humans, it's only that humans have the tools and mindset to 'conquer' the other species for their own advancement. And this is a point I do NOT want to argue because we know our arguments and neither of us will convince the other so we agree to disagree. 

That said, I saw a post from one of the Colorado rescuers complaining about the condition of the rabbits -- long nails, matted and dirty coats. No long detailed explanations about nails curling into the feet or mats to the skin with debris and feces, sores, etc.. Nothing about the smell of ammonia, feces piled high under the wire, nothing. It sounds like they hadn't been groomed for a few weeks. 

I was particularly upset to read it was a Crimestoppers tip and there was no mention of an investigation or of prior warnings. And this is key -- if this person had been warned by animal control in the past, then yes, seize the rabbits. 

But honestly, this to me sounds like the admirable but misguided over-protection, over-reactive issues found in rabbit (and other pet) rescue that really doesn't help. 

If this is the case, there are 197 spaces taken away from truly abused rabbits and a ton of resources sucked out of the system. 

Finding homes for these rabbits will be tough. 

I would have preferred to see warnings, attempts at monitoring the situation, initiating or requesting a herd reduction, citations requesting better grooming and firm, workable suggestions for enrichment, etc, before taking such drastic action. 

I always remind my fellow rescuers to equate rabbit rescue with third world adoptions -- every kid can't be adopted by Madonna, and the kids left behind may have it rough, working the fields or sitting in the desert brushing flies off their faces, but that IS their life and I doubt most of them think its terrible. We can't judge their way of life by using ours as a standard, and we can't force our way of life on others.

I'd like to see breeders keep their rabbits in more natural surroundings, etc, but the rabbits don't know any other life and they're not in any pain. It's something to work on diligently and tirelessly, but as much as I want to see them out of there, I'd draw the line at seizing rabbits because they don't conform to a house rabbit lifestyle. 

I'll reserve judgement while waiting for more information, but I'm thinking that the laws are pretty wacky. In my area it's very hard to seize truly abused animals. If someone there can phone in a tip and have almost 200 rabbits seized because of one complaint that their nails need clipping and they need brushing, the county is going to have to prepare to take TONS of calls from rescues, including calls from rescues reporting each other. It's a often a very emotional and combative group of people with not-very-realistic standards.

Thanks to all for keeping this contentious issue civil. 


sas :expressionless


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## Pipp

*
Officials: 200 rabbits seized from 'deplorable' conditions*

JEFFERSON COUNTY - A homeowner is facing animal abuse charges after sheriff's deputies found 200 rabbits, some alive and some dead, in a shed behind her home. 
The home is in the 12000 block of 75th Avenue near Arvada. In addition to the rabbits, several goats and chickens could also be seen on the property. 
Mark Techmeyer, public information officer for the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office, described the conditions in the shed as "deplorable." Temperatures inside the shed were described as warm, there was a lack of food and water, and the cages were deep in feces, Techmeyer said. 
"It was a bad situation," Techmeyer said. "We don't know how many are dead." 
Rescue workers could be seen removing a small number of dead rabbits from the property, although Techmeyer estimated the number of deceased animals to be "in the single digits." 
Veterinarians were also on hand and described the animals as "aggressively thirsty," reaching desperately for water as it was poured for them. 
Techmeyer says it was 84 degrees inside the shed, which a veterinarian described as four degrees above the ideal temperature for housing long-haired rabbits. An evaporative cooling unit, known as a swamp cooler, appeared to be running on the side of the shed. 
9NEWS has chosen not to disclose the name of the homeowner, who has not yet been charged in the case. Techmeyer says an inspection of the rabbits would determine whether officials planned to file misdemeanor or felony charges. 
"She is being very cooperative and making the process as easy as can be," Techmeyer said 
. 
The rabbits were removed from the home and placed in carriers for transport to the Jefferson County Fairgrounds, where they are being housed and cared for in a barn by workers for the Foothills Animal Shelter. 
"We have dealt with hoarding cases before," Jennifer Strickland, the shelter's director of community relations, said. "As far as 200 rabbits, that's something we haven't encountered." 
Strickland says the shelter often sees 10 to 20 hoarding cases per year. 
"The owner may not believe that anything is wrong with the animals," Strickland said. "I believe they are harder to care for than people think." 
The homeowner's next door neighbor and longtime friend, Jennie Ridgley, says the woman who owns the home is not a hoarder. 
"She's a breeder," Ridgley said. "She raises animals for show. These are all pedigreed animals." 
The homeowner's website says she's been raising rabbits since 1982. 
Ridgley says she called the homeowner at her job when she noticed animal control officers at her home shortly after 10:30 Thursday morning. 
"This is a side business for her," Ridgley said. "She advertises. She's not incognito or anything." 
Techmeyer says the homeowner does not have a license to breed or sell animals. 
"Keeping animals that are cramped together in conditions described as deplorable is unacceptable," Techmeyer said. 
This was the first call in Jefferson County for the new Crime Stoppers program where people can report animal cruelty. The program launched in June. 
"We know there are cases that are not being reported," Techmeyer said. 
Information on how make donations for the rabbits will be posted at http://www.foothillsanimalshelter.org.


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## Pipp

I don't have audio to hear the interviews, but one think that always irks me with cases like this is the mention of 'dead rabbits' pulled from the barn, like the caregiver killed them or something. 

I've had 200 or more pass through here in the last year as well in rescue as well as my own pets, and my deaths were far beyond single digits. (And to further illustration the nature of rescue, good bet some hater with a grudge will read this and report ME).

When you have 200 rabbits, you're going to have some dead ones. 

They also say that temperatures were 4 degrees above the IDEAL. Half the country is in the middle of a record heat spell, 4 degrees is commendable and indicative of preventative measures.

I have rabbits that will drink aggressively as soon as the crock is put in the pen no matter when they last had water. If this is truly an issue, a citation and a request/demand for a back-up water system would have been a logical reaction. 

Looking at the video, those poor little rabbits are terrified, and I doubt they'll be very happy for a long time to come. 

It's looking to me like there really could have been better way. 

And I don't know how the laws work there but I know from other seizures around the country, getting the rabbits back may have come with a fairly substantial cost. The owner would likely have had to shouldered the costs of the seizure or sued for a wrongful seizure and paid out for lawyers. 

Seeing as they obviously consider the rabbits a product, it's unlikely they'd care enough to take the loss. 

The poor bunnies lose on all counts.



sas


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## plasticbunny

I find two things very hard to digest.

First, she had DEAD RABBITS in her herd. I'm sorry, livestock or not, you are negligent (or mildly retarded) if you have DEAD ANIMALS in your barn and don't know about it.

Secondly, she didn't have a license. Does that mean she's never in 30 years of breeding had a license? What is the purpose of the license? Do all licensed breeders need to succomb to regular inspections? Or pay taxes on their business? Why would she NOT have a license if she was an honest breeder?

As an afterthought, I have to say that with two rabbits, I clean their 2 litterboxes every couple of days. If I didn't, they would stink and the air quality would be poor (even with an air conditioner and two fans circulating). AND both of my buns are fixed, so they smell maybe half as bad as an unaltered bunny. And this lady cleans her pans for 200 rabbits WEEKLY?? Am I missing something here?


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## MILU

Sas, your wisdom is unquestionable! I've read the posts and I don't think I actually want to see images of those poor rabbits. 

I became a vegetarian when I found out how animals are treated, and I'm striving to be a vegan for the same reason, I reduced my consumption of dairy and I don't buy from certain brands. 

I completely agree with what you say, and I think it's idiotic to think that humans have the right to mass murder other species. That's not "nature". In nature, one animal needs to kill another, but then, that unfortunate one will have lived FREE and in its natural environment, not caged, being fed stuff that doesn't correspond to the natural nourishment needed, etc. The animal would also live with its family for as long as needed, not being separated or anything. There are lots of points to be discussed but it's kind of obvious that "people" (creatures) who make money out of another species suffering and death cannot think about them nearly enough. 

Sometimes I wonder about those antique religions that say that, after death, people might come back as animals. I wonder how those "people" who make money out of animals would feel if THEY got back as animals. Also, how they'd feel if one of those poor bunnies or animals were one of their beloved ones back, asking for help going unheard and even being mistreated by who was supposed to love them... 

Ah, just back to the fact that people say that animals kill each other in nature for food - I saw a video in which a leopard kills a monkey and finds a baby monkey after that. The leopard then felt horrible, and ADOPTED the baby monkey! Took care of it, it's a very nice video! [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkEex37su3s[/ame]
Why don't humans do the same? We hardly adopt members of our own species... so it's not difficult at all to believe that those poor bunnies weren't being treated (nearly) as they should have been. I really hope they're safe now, and that they're able to find decent homes with loving owners.


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## racerabbits

Ok, to clarify the "dead" rabbits. A 4-H girl left a bunny sick rabbit with the lady to doctor. It didn't make it, so that is the ONE dead rabbit in the barn. There were 20 dead rabbits in her freezer, waiting to be delivered to the Denver Zoo.

She does want all that survive the ordeal back. Cost is $5/head per day. These are not throw away rabbits, but the result of 20 years of breeding. Saying they are a product is wrong. They are livestock, that doesn't mean we can't love them.

I agree that the manner is which this was done ONLY hurt the rabbits. If it were spring or fall, it might have been ok, but to undully stress them like the officials did is almost neglect in itself.


*
Pipp wrote: *


> I don't have audio to hear the interviews, but one think that always irks me with cases like this is the mention of 'dead rabbits' pulled from the barn, like the caregiver killed them or something.
> 
> I've had 200 or more pass through here in the last year as well in rescue as well as my own pets, and my deaths were far beyond single digits. (And to further illustration the nature of rescue, good bet some hater with a grudge will read this and report ME).
> 
> When you have 200 rabbits, you're going to have some dead ones.
> 
> They also say that temperatures were 4 degrees above the IDEAL. Half the country is in the middle of a record heat spell, 4 degrees is commendable and indicative of preventative measures.
> 
> I have rabbits that will drink aggressively as soon as the crock is put in the pen no matter when they last had water. If this is truly an issue, a citation and a request/demand for a back-up water system would have been a logical reaction.
> 
> Looking at the video, those poor little rabbits are terrified, and I doubt they'll be very happy for a long time to come.
> 
> It's looking to me like there really could have been better way.
> 
> And I don't know how the laws work there but I know from other seizures around the country, getting the rabbits back may have come with a fairly substantial cost. The owner would likely have had to shouldered the costs of the seizure or sued for a wrongful seizure and paid out for lawyers.
> 
> Seeing as they obviously consider the rabbits a product, it's unlikely they'd care enough to take the loss.
> 
> The poor bunnies lose on all counts.
> 
> 
> 
> sas


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## racerabbits

This is what I am saying. They went about this all wrong. IF the rabbits end up going out for adoption, for whatever reason...who is equipped to take on Wool Breed rabbits? They would all be sterlized at a great cost to the animal shelter. It would have been best to plan this out and look at all the angles. 

I haven't said there is room for improvement with her rabbitry, just wanted to give both sides of a one sides news report.

racerabbits 



I would have preferred to see warnings, attempts at monitoring the situation, initiating or requesting a herd reduction, citations requesting better grooming and firm, workable suggestions for enrichment, etc, before taking such drastic action.


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## racerabbits

Sorry again...I meant to say these ARE NOT throw away rabbits. I will get the hang of this!!!!


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## Pipp

I fixed the post quotes.

We're on the same page with most of this stuff, but I will never ever be convinced that people can truly love their rabbits and kill them. 

You can love a stuffed toy or your favourite sweater. They are products. 

Would you kill and sell your dog or cat? They are pets.

This is a 4-H/rural vs urban/pets vs agricultural cultural chasm, there is no point in arguing.

The thread won't be allowed to continue if that's the focus. 

I'd like to know more about the alternatives presented when she was asked to sign them over in the first place, do you have any more details there? 


sas


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## Pipp

*racerabbits wrote: *


> This is what I am saying. They went about this all wrong. IF the rabbits end up going out for adoption, for whatever reason...who is equipped to take on Wool Breed rabbits? They would all be sterlized at a great cost to the animal shelter. It would have been best to plan this out and look at all the angles.
> 
> I haven't said there is room for improvement with her rabbitry, just wanted to give both sides of a one sides news report.
> 
> racerabbits
> 
> 
> 
> Pipp wrote: I would have preferred to see warnings, attempts at monitoring the situation, initiating or requesting a herd reduction, citations requesting better grooming and firm, workable suggestions for enrichment, etc, before taking such drastic action.



I did read it as saying they were NOT throw-away rabbits, I knew what you meant there. (I've corrected that as well for you). 

We are saying the same thing when it comes to the rabbits being seized. 

I appreciate your input on this. This kind of information is crucial. I will never make judgements without hearing all sides. 

And I always leave room for the gray areas, these things are never black and white -- one side is right, one wrong. Truth and perspective are complex things and it takes a lot of detail to figure it all out. 


sas


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## Kipcha

Hmm, since you went to the barn so many times, do you have any pics? I think that would really help here.

I'm majorly on the fence now... You're making pretty good arguements racerabbits, but there is a lot of blanks...

Not that my opinion on the matter really makes a difference 

However, something about that article really bugs me. People throw the term "hoarder" around without even knowing what it means. This person is obviously not a hoarder.


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## racerabbits

in answer to your: 

I obviously hate rabbits being fed to raptors.

How we do the "food chain" of raptors and zoo animals and snakes is all animals are euthinized, not fed alive. We don't raise rabbits just for that purpose, but if a rabbit needs to be put down, we choose this manner rather than waste the rabbit.


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## racerabbits

I would love to share details regarding the legalities of what went down that day, once I have permission from my friend and her attorney. I don't want to pass on hearsay. The details I have shared, to give her side, are all first hand.


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## Pharfly

Just going too add from working in a shelter, it is easier too sign the animals over to the shelter, then too deal with the courts and legal fees too get them back. Now unless the Media gets too carried away charges will likly no be pressed. She turned the animals over to AC. 200 rabbits and cleaned 1 time a week is not enough, we all know rabbits are poo machines! It sounds like she became overwhelmed with rabbits. Which can happen pretty fast! I have too stop looking at Kijiji because if I didnt have will power I would have 20 rabbits now! lol


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## plasticbunny

Still confused as to why she didn't have a license... Imagine you were pulled over by a cop because someone reported your vehicle as "driving erratically". The cop asks to see your license, and you don't have one. Your car is seized. How is this scenario different from having her herd seized? If there's no license, there's no right to breed...no?

I mean, isn't this reason enough to seize her herd?


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## JadeIcing

License... You don't always need one. Laws can very from one are to another.


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## mistyjr

:yeahthat:

You dont need a licenses if you sell less then $500 of bunnies a year in pet stores, ect.


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## Pipp

My pens get cleaned here once a week.


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## Kipcha

I clean once a week too, unless it happens to be really bad (A bunny gets diarrhea or something). I don't see anything wrong with that.


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## golfdiva

My dad always said, there are 3 sides to every story...yours, mine and the truth!


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## Silverwolf_Rabbitry

Yes they can very but the USDA has License that are required no mater what state you are in what type you have to get deponds on if you sell and how many you sell the jury is still out on the exibiter License that I am trying to get more info on... the paperwork is not clear if its only for petting zoos or show people aswell have yet to get an answer on it.


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## gentle giants

*plasticbunny wrote: *


> I find two things very hard to digest.
> 
> First, she had DEAD RABBITS in her herd. I'm sorry, livestock or not, you are negligent (or mildly retarded) if you have DEAD ANIMALS in your barn and don't know about it.
> 
> Secondly, she didn't have a license. Does that mean she's never in 30 years of breeding had a license? What is the purpose of the license? Do all licensed breeders need to succomb to regular inspections? Or pay taxes on their business? Why would she NOT have a license if she was an honest breeder?


I think what I saw in the info posted previously is that some of these rabbits were euthanized to send to a zoo and feed to prey animals, if I am wrong about that someone please let me know. Did the AC people specifically say the dead rabbits were laying around in cages, or in cold storage? 

Also, I don't know about in Canada, but here (in most states) licensing is not required to breed rabbits. I feel personally that forcing someone to pay for a license because they want to raise animals is unconstitutional, that to me is a pretty basic freedom! 

I don't have anything like 200 rabbits, but I would be EXTREMELY outraged if AC came in and took all my animals away without even talking to me, giving a warning, whatever. And I'm sorry, but if you have never cared for animals on a large scale, you have no idea what it's like. For example, I have a small herd of dairy goats. Their hooves need to be trimmed every few weeks, or they get overgrown and can begin to cause them problems walking. Hoof trimming is not a fun job, these animals are in the neighborhood of 150ish pounds each and they don't like their feet messed with.
So I take care of their hooves about one goat a week, on a rotating schedule. So anytime you come out to my place, you might find one or even two with hooves that are longer than they should be. Does that mean they are neglected, or that I am not caring for them? Nope. But AC doesn't tend to see things that way. And when you have 200 rabbits at one time to care for, the sheer scale of that job/work just to feed and water them daily is HUGE. 

One last thing, I think it was mentioned previously that you can't just believe what the media tells you. Shocking, sensational news is what sells. If they have to "juice" it up to sell, they will. The media is not a non-profit organization, they are out there to SELL!


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## gentle giants

*Silverwolf_Rabbitry wrote: *


> Yes they can very but the USDA has License that are required no mater what state you are in what type you have to get deponds on if you sell and how many you sell the jury is still out on the exibiter License that I am trying to get more info on... the paperwork is not clear if its only for petting zoos or show people aswell have yet to get an answer on it.


No, you don't. The only way you need a license is if you sell more than $500 worth in a year, or if you are selling them for meat/human consumption. The USDA wants you to think you have to pay them for licensing, but unless the laws are different in WA than they are here in IL you don't have to have one.


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## Pipp

The conditions here looks very bad. 

http://photos.denverpost.com/mediac...-in-deplorable-living-conditions-in-jeffco/#8

I think this one was justified. 


sas


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## Kipcha

Whoa Pipp, that looks pretty darn bad...


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## Myia09

Ugggh I should refrain from posting in general..but here is my very very nice statement.

Obviously from the photos this is abuse. If you are going to take on that many rabbits, breeder or rescue, you need to clean better than that. Seriously. That isn't a couple days worth of dirt and filth. 

As a owner of an angora and jersey wooly, I HAVE to brush mine every week to prevent matting. They don't "just groom" them for shows. And if you are a breeder who undertakes these breeds, prepare for the work.

Horrifying. Horrifying. Deeply saddening, and I hope these rabbits go to a home and know what a toy is, what a kiss is, and what the feel of a soft surface feels like.


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## Must_Love_Pets

It is what it is, what you see is what you see. There is no excuse for the condition the rabbits were in. I am upset at the neighbor defending the lady. Did the lady see the conditions and how they were going crazy just to get water. Sitting in their own urine and feces. Does she realize that a handful were dead? I can understand 1 or 2 dying but a handful says that they are certainly not cared for properly. Poor bunnies!!! I am very happy they are in good hands but still saddened that this goes on as much as it does around the world. It just makes me sad and sick to my stomache.


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## Inle_Rabbitry

As more information became available concerning this event, the more I felt on the fence about it. 

However, after seeing the recent pictures, there seems to be no doubt as to the factual extent of things.

In conclusion, I do feel there is a need to point out that BOTH parties (the breeder and the AC) are at fault for not properlly handling things in this situation.

I do agree that the AC had no right to go in there without the breeder's knowledge. And if the rumors are correct in that they intentionally turned off her water and swamp cooler to pose as reasons to sieze the rabbits, then that too is ovbiously a serious fault on their part. Also, they didn't seem terribly knowledgable in what they were doing from the get go and it seems like they only wanted the attention (which is of course not unheard of for the AC to do, sadly).

As for the breeder, I truely believe she may of had good intentions - originally. She was obviously passionate about breeding and showing. I personally think she just didn't have the expertise in proper rabbit care. And in the end it was her rabbits that suffered for that ignorance. The main issue I really had was the fact of how many rabbits she had. Personally, I think someone with around 200 rabbits is destined to be in over their head. But that's just my personal opinion. I just don't see how any one person could handle, care for, and properlly clean up after that many rabbits. Let alone a breed that requires DAILY grooming in order to stay healthy.

Whether they are pets or livestock (and it's not my place to judge) rabbits REQUIRE-AT THE VERY LEAST; food, a CONSTANT supply of fresh clean water, grooming, and cleaning up after. Those are just the simplest needs-of any domestic animal kept in confinemnt. This breeder obviously couldn't even take care of the bare minimal requirements. 

So again, I easily see the faults in both sides, but ultimately, I'm very glad that these rabbits are no longer in those conditions.


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## MareBearBunny18

For one if her rabbits were being taken care of there wouldnt be DEAD RABBITS!!!!! And i honestly think she should have gotten charges pressed on her. If u dont notice dead rabbits u have a problem. And when u have multi rabbits there cages need to b cleaned more then 1 once a week mine since i have my 3 lil girls i clean them out 2 times. and 84 it is still bad for them to be in the heat!!!! heat stress!!!! ****. If ur gonna breed u need a license and u should b checked out befor and after getting ur license!!! I think every state should do a breeding class.


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## MareBearBunny18

*Pipp wrote: *


> The conditions here looks very bad.
> 
> http://photos.denverpost.com/mediacenter/2011/08/rabbits-found-in-deplorable-living-conditions-in-jeffco/#8
> 
> I think this one was justified.
> 
> 
> sas


Omg i looked at these pics my mother in law came running over and was like holy **** thats not how rabbits should b living. and i agree i wanna cry looking at these pics poor babies i hope they find good homes <3


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## Sweetie

*Pipp wrote: *


> The conditions here looks very bad.
> 
> http://photos.denverpost.com/mediacenter/2011/08/rabbits-found-in-deplorable-living-conditions-in-jeffco/#8
> 
> I think this one was justified.
> 
> 
> sas



The pics are disgusting. How can a person let the cages get that bad? I clean my rabbit cage every other day or so, sometimes I clean it once a week. But then again I have only one rabbit.

For the lady, she could have been warned before. She could have been called and told that the AC was there seizing her rabbits. Someone could have called the AC and told them about the rabbits in the condition that they were in. It is awful that this lady had 200 rabbits and could not properly take care of them. 

No one knows what happened. Like I said someone might have called the AC and they may have called her and told her that they were going to seize the rabbits. It does say that she was very cooperative with them, maybe she knew the conditions were getting bad and couldn't do anything about it. It still isn't an excuse not to care for the rabbits.

Rabbits do need water 24 hours a day 7 days a week, not twice a day. Sweetie gets water all the time and she is housed indoors, away from the heat of the summer and the extreme cold of the winter. Also they need food constantly, unlimited hay at all times.

I hope the rabbits get good homes and are well taken care of.


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## Nancy McClelland

Say whatever you want to, my eyes never lie to me. In "Il Rashomon" the line was about a murder investigation and what was said was that "there is what you say, there is what she says, and there are the facts." I really can't say how I feel about this as I don't like to villify or attack anyone.


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## EbunnysMum

As a bunmum in Colorado, I wonder if there are any updates on the bunnies themselves. Whatever you think of the situation, I just want to know about the rabbits. Are any okay? Do we have a ton of buns in need of homes now? Any info would be appreciated  Thanks


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