# Help! My bunny bites hard!



## Lhucky

Good day, last year I purchased 2 dwarf Angora bunny... Female and Male... They were about 4 months old. They looked cuddly, and funny because I've never really seen a bunny with a lot of hair before, aside from ordinary rabbit that I recently found out they were called Dutch. ( I never knew that I'm an animal lover then, I don't like dogs or rather I don't like the hard responsibilities for having 1 ) Until last year, when my husband took 2 Dutch bunny home ( which will be my next story )

Anyways, From the time I bought my 2 Angora. They were thin, and looks like they wouldn't last a month with us, every day I make sure that they're well fed. They stay in our room with 24/7 aircon. Now, they're 1 year old. My doe Lhucky, she's an angel! Although the first 2 months she's very aloof doesn't want to be touched, doesn't play, she looked so sad, even if she had 3 playmates with her. My buck, Lhousio on the other hand was a total opposite of Lhucky.. playful, loves to explore, and he blends well with our 3 does. Since he's an Angora, I started searching online how to care for long haired bunny. I combed his hair every week, my husband bought this wire brush, but when I used it on them, it seems like I'm hurting them, I had to brush it a little bit too hard to reach for the tangled hair underneath them. And they never seems to enjoy hair brushing time... So we switched on just cutting their hair instead. Last September, I went out of the country for a month ( my husband is the one taking care of them ) when I came back, missing my bunnies, I hug them one by one.. Lhousio just bit my palm so hard that it bleeds. So I thought that maybe after being gone for a month he doesn't recognized me anymore. Next morning, I get his bowl to put food in it and when I put it back, my other palm was again been bit but it was another kind of bite, he won't let go, even when I'm shouting out so loud until he fell on the ground from about 2 feet high. I put him inside his cage before attending to my sore bleeding so hard palm. I never give him food from that day on, I envied my husband for he was never been attacked by Lhousio the way he attacked me. I never really knew what happened to my playful Lhousio. Then I read from internet that they're some bunnies can become too territorial, I just need to let him get accustomed to me again by putting my finger inside his cage until he learned that I am not going to him. I tried that method after a month, as my both palm healed. I put a finger inside his wire cage, he bit again! I ended up having a broken nail and cut on my nail bed. For a very tiny creature, he could really bite my skin off. It happened twice... So I need another strategy... Outside his home. He was playing outside 1 day when I woke up, I lean down, say hi enthusiastically. He jumped and reached my wrists for another bite that he again won't let go and fell 2 feet. My husband put him inside his cage as a punishment... Again my with skin bleeding and a much bigger cut I don't want him to go. ( I came to the point of giving him up, but can't ) so again, no solution from the net. I also tried the cold treatment, let him out of his cage and I will ignore him, he bit my foot. Twice. I bought boots, so that whenever his outside, my feet are safe... How hilarious is that, inside my room and I'm wearing boots. So to make the long story short... I was bitten so many times including my lips, cause I used my face to meet his gaze so that he won't get scarred. We can't have him neutered because we don't know a reputable doctor in Philippines that can conduct 1. Most animal doctors here are dog experts. 

Sooo... Now, I'm scared whenever Lhousio is around... I don't already know what else can I do to turn my Lhousio around... I know he can sense my nervousness... As he pee whenever he saw me around. It's quite hard for me to relax for I had been in pain for the past 4 months. I missed hugging him, I missed him on my lap, I missed touching him. I missed his licks...


----------



## LakeCondo

I would try to keep talking soothingly to him, but don't stick your hand our face out.


----------



## Lhucky

So... Should I let him stay in cage? Or let him out unsupervised? I guess that our hallway is quite safe, but then again, it's hard to say. We also think that his a very intelligent bunny. Can I still train him for some tricks? Will his aggression lessen if he gets older? Right now, he responds well when we call his name... He rans very fast, to the point that I think when I called his name, I would get another bite from him w/out any warning. Can we still alter his behavior even if his unneutered? I think his definition of fun was lounging and boxing and biting.


----------



## Kipcha

Does your husband ever do the grooming? If you were using certain brushes and hurting him, or if he's had to have been dematted or anything in the past, I wonder if he's associating it with you and doesn't like it, so he's biting you.

When you say he would pee whenever he saw you around, was it just peeing on the ground or did he spray it?

I would not, under any circumstances, ever put your face near this bun. Some people have had serious injury from rabbit bites to the face.


----------



## FreezeNkody

I've never been bitten by my rabbits, so I can't say I feel your pain. But I can suggest if he's biting, Screech as loud as you can and say "NO" and put him in "timeout" seems as if your bun is trying to dominate you. Really sucks you can't get him neutered, as it will probably help with the raging hormones.


----------



## Lhucky

Well, my husband helped several times, usually I do the combing early morning while his still asleep, but would wake him up when I can't handle him anymore, but most of times I would just stop and continue after several days. But I I stop grooming him already for the past 3 months. My husband just cut his hair instead.

Whenever I'm around with him, I make sure that I'm out of his reached. A foot away, so he just pee wherever he Stand. 

Yelping doesn't seem to work on him... I shout too loud that he just won't let go even when his already above the ground. I also tried shaking my arms when he bit me, but it looked like his teeth would just buried deeper into my skin. I also can't be silent when in pain, so I stayed far away from him since then.


----------



## Lhucky

I also wouldn't stop finding ways to be his friend again. I've read that while his mouth is full,i can try touching him. But what he did was, he would just dropped whatever's inside his mouth and lounge at me... Maybe I need to give him something that he cannot resist munching. Banana doesn't work. He hates pineapple. He would eat his treats only if we put it down.


----------



## FreezeNkody

Lhucky said:


> Yelping doesn't seem to work on him... I shout too loud that he just won't let go even when his already above the ground. I also tried shaking my arms when he bit me, but it looked like his teeth would just buried deeper into my skin. I also can't be silent when in pain, so I stayed far away from him since then.


 
If he's biting you, I know it's probably hard, but don't pull up! you're only putting his weight on his bite. Don't "yell" I mean high pitch screech. like a rabbit in distress.


----------



## JBun

Screaming out isn't going to help much in this case. This isn't just a warning nip that he is giving you. This is serious territorial aggression. This is the kind of biting he would do if fighting with another rabbit. What I wrote before will be the easiest way to deal with this problem. It may be possible to change his behavior without neutering, with the holding his head down, method, but neutering is still your best and easiest chance of changing this behavior since his biting seems to be mostly caused by hormonal behavior. Letting him out of his cage is up to you, but if you do, you will want to have gloves on so that if he charges you, that you can press his head down. You don't need to wait for him to bite you to discipline him with pressing his head down. If he charges you, or lunges and grunts at you, that is enough negative behavior to discipline him for, but for him to learn not to do it, you need to discipline immediately after he shows this behavior. And having a long sleeve jacket on is probably a good idea too, to protect your arms, when doing this.

Training him with treats may work, but his hormones may be driving his behavior too much for you to change it with just treats.


----------



## Lhucky

We noticed that our male bunny that bites had 1 enlarged testicles. Tommorow, we would take him for check up ( how to say this... the doctor specialized in dogs and cats. although he also is a resident doctor in a farm that breeds rabbits. ) I would like to know what are the Do's and Dont's that we need to watch out for, for us to be able to trust our bunny's life in his hands.

He also have a big matted hair between his testicles, when we tried cutting it, it seems like hes in pain/uncomfortable, he made a snuffing sound every time we touch his bottom. the testicles were pinkish in color, also looks like there's only 1 testicles. Does it look normal?


----------



## Kipcha

Oh dear, that certainly does not look good. This is exactly like our Belgian Hare Peace. He had one very large testicle and the other was actually up under his rib cage (Although he was not in pain when we touched the descended one...). I have a thread on here about it and the neuter if you want to take a look. There are some pictures of it actually outside the body for educational purposes, it's in the thread talking about his abscess surgery. The extra large one had flesh deposits down inside. It's been almost 2 years since Peace's surgery and he is a perfectly happy, healthy rabbit now.

For do's and don'ts, just ask the basics. 
1. What should rabbits be fed? (ie, hay, pellets, veggies, etc.)

2. Should rabbits be fasted before a surgery? (NO, you NEVER fast rabbits, so you know. Rabbits are incapable of vomiting, so you do not need to worry about fasting them.)

3. How many rabbits do they see? Is it only the one farm you mentioned?

4. Ask what type of antibiotics should not be given to rabbits. (Amoxicillin, lincomycin, clindamycin are all dangerous, oral penicillin is deadly but it can be done through injection)

You can also usual tell just by how the rabbits are being handled. I would never go to a vet that is rough or impatient with our rabbits.

Just questions like that. I am sure others will be able to offer more. I know you are limited on vets so hopefully this one will be good.


----------



## Lhucky

Maybe some of you may wonder, why I asked such a ridiculous question... that I should trust the health of my bunny to their vet since they knew what they're doing.

they used to live in 4 story cage which my husband made especially for them. they lived together for about 2 months. then, when we still thought that all 4 bunnies are girls. when 2 doctors confirmed that all are girls, 2 doctors said that its still hard to know their sexes when young. and the seller told us our 2 dutch bunnies are male and a female. and our angoras are also male and female. 

We've been through 5 different vets already. since we got our bunny 2st quarter last year. just to make sure that our bunny would stay and live longer with us. We buy good quality if not expensive food for them. the 1st time we took them to the vet, my dutch bunnies had pinkish to red colored pee. we're worried. took them to the vet. the doctor examine their sexes, examine their poop, looked at their ears. and the conclusion was, they might had had bacteria. told us to give them yogurt. the one commercially sold in supermarket for humans. told us that it could take away the bad bacteria. said that bunny loves eating yogurt. we bought 1 for them to share. My Lhoe Lha loved her yogurt, only she likes to lick. the rest, after sniffing the yogurt, doesn't even want to be near it anymore. we called the vet told her that only 1 bunny likes yogurt, she said we need to forced feed the rest to be able cure them. we did as we've told because its good for them. seeing them being forced fed, really breaks my heart... we gave up after a few trials. then we went for 2nd opinion. again did what they did the 1st time and told us that my angora Lhucky is suffering from mites, and the rest were healthy already. the vet gave us a medicine solution drop that don't even have ingridients indicated in the bottle. said that it's their head doctor that made the solution, works well with small animals suffering from mites.

She howed us how we should apply the solution to Lhucky. also we need to bathe them everyweek. ( at that time, they we're only 4 months old ) if you only knew how we forced Lhucky, it would also breaks your heart. she doesn't even want to be touched anymore. she's always on the run. always alert on us if we're around. would sat where I couldn't reach her anymore. we stopped only when I started reading blogs about rabbits care. about a week after. then I learnt about giving too much carrot can cause their pee to become pinkish to redish in color. and that it also could harm them eating too much. 1 doctor even told us that our bunnies are thin. needs to give them vitamins in their water to get their desired weight. 

Our 1 doe Dutch LhoeVhie past away last Sept. as I've mentioned above, she had seizures. happened about 2 times before, we took her to the vet. said that she might be suffering from heat stroke. She's living in our bedroom, we never once turn off our airconditioning unless there's a power interuption due to bad weather which happened only twice. said she need a bath when it appears again. it happened again the night after she just took her bath. we searched online, asked around, we still cannot find what's wrong with her. we looked again for another vet. said she's perfectly healthy. and just watch out for another seizure attack. the last seizure LhoeVhie had, she fell down already. we could just guess as much. maybe she had a bad fall. she had had got the seizure from her parents. she's sick and no doctor can cure her. we missed her...

then came Lhousio's aggression. took him to a 2 different vets. said he's healthy aside from his hair. maybe his hair is causing him to become aggressive. can't see me very well. cut his hair. Give him Bragg, see whether his aggression would slow down. but no doctor ever told us that his testicles have problems. until We saw it the day befor yesterday after bathing. We again took him to the vet this morning, said that the doctor is not around, we need to come back again later this morning. 

sooo... i guess... i don't trust vets here that much anymore. I love my Lhousio. loosing 1 bunny already is painful. I cannot loose another 1 again that fast. that is also why I'm asking what are the things I need to asked his doctor before I could trust his life in his doctors hands, before he conduct an opperation, or before I made a mistake and loose my bunny in return.


----------



## Kipcha

Wow, it sounds like you've had a run of bad luck, and a lot of... Odd advice.

First off, I have never heard a vet recommend yogurt. It's an old method that has been disproven and isn't good for rabbits. As the site here states, rabbits just do not react well to the dairy products.

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Food/yogurt.htm

Pinkish to red colored pee can be normal, depending on what they are being fed, like you read. The time to actually be concerned is if there is blood in the urine.

It also seems very odd to me that only one of the rabbits had mites. They all live in close quarters/together, right? So I doubt only one of them would have it. It is also very weird that your vet would not tell you what the 'solution' was. Sounds pretty fishy to me. How was it given to the rabbit? Orally or by putting it on the skin?

When you say "bathe", do you mean the whole body getting wet? Because this is a BIG no-no and should not be done unless it is absoloutly necessary. It is stressful and rabbits keep themselves perfectly clean on their own, they are not dogs. And even IF they were dogs, I have never heard of bathing them weekly!

I wouldn't recommend adding vitamins to their water, just giving them better quality food and checking their teeth to make sure there is no issue with them... Assuming your rabbits are actually skinny.

First off, never dunk a rabbit in water for a heat stroke. This will send them into shock. 

When she was having the seizures, you mentioned one happened right after a bath. Were you using anything other then water to clean her? Was she on any medications?

What is "Bragg"? What does it do that it would make the vet think it would calm his aggression?

I don't blame you for not trusting them, I wouldn't either. You have been getting a lot of very poor advice.

Do not bathe them anymore though!

Honestly, I'm not sure what to tell you. I would not trust a single one of the vets you listed because their advice has been incorrect... Just ask those questions and see what answers you get. Definitely try asking around new clinics.

Sorry, wish I could help more


----------



## Lhucky

bathing = full body wash with the use of Mycocide shampoo, also recommended by the vet. 

yogurt, well, it actually started when they poop smelly and mushy feces in the afternoon. we don't know that they are actually their cecotropes. we thought that they're having diarrhea then. took them to the vet, recommends yogurt. Lhoe-Lha loves it, the rests don't. my husband just need to stop forced feeding them after 2 attemps, aside from the scratches we got, and never ending struggles, it's really very tiring. he stopped and looked it up at the net. 

LhoeVhie = we bathe her around 6pm late afternoon 1 day, the next morning, i was still asleep while my husband was downstairs she had a seizure. when my husband came back up, he saw LhoeVhie inside our walk in cabinet at the inner corner grinding her teeth loudly, she's in pain. we took her to the vet, unfortunately, with the morning traffic rush, it took us 2 hour to drive from our house to the vet. and passed away around 12 noon still inside the car in my arms. she wasn't under any kind of medication. aside from the vitamins we put in their water.

Bragg = the Apple cider vinegar with the mother in it. 5 drops on their water bottles is good for their health said another vet, said it might cure his aggression also. bathing is also again recommeded. how will it cure him, we don't really know. she just said that we try and see what happens.

their latest vet ( my husband went to province last month, his purpose was actually the birds in the farm... when he just saw they also had bunnies insides. he ask the care taker about the health of their rabbits, said they only had 1 resident doctor that took care of their birds and other poulty animals including the rabbits. he didn't ask further as their time is limited.) we don't even know if the doctor have conducted any kind of surgery to the rabbits, we don't even know if the rabbits from the farm are meant for food consumption purposes or really for pets and being taken good care of. we didn't really ask the doctor yet, and he don't tell story about his encounter in other rabbits. when we visits his clinic recently, he only have dogs as patients... some being groomed, and some inside cages, not sure if they're patients or selling them. 

anyways, were there any differences in operating a rabbit to a dog? for neuturing I mean.


----------



## Lhucky

And yes the 1st 2 - 3 months they sleep, eat and play together in the 4 story house my husband built for them without any partitions. but whenever they're outside, Lhucky would choose a place that is very hard for us to reach. the medicine is for ear mites according the vet. a few drops in a cotton buds and should reached under her ears as far as we could go... although we never really went down her ear canal, as she struggles the entire procedure. 3x a day for a 2 weeks is recommended or until the ear mites are gone. we stopped the treatment after 1 day of trials... instead, we decide to wait for a more visible signs of mites to show up, and then maybe we could just take her to another vet for injection or other non too stressful procedures available in our market. 10 months had passed, she had no ear mites or any kind of skin diseases visible in our naked eyes.


----------



## JBun

When rabbits have mushy poop it can be caused by bacteria problems, parasites, and diet problems. The most common reason has to do with the rabbits diet. It can sometimes be caused by some veggies, fruit, or treats they might be eating, but the most common reason for mushy poop with a rabbit is because it is getting too many rabbit food pellets, especially if it is being fed pellets with treat pieces in it. The easiest way to fix mushy poop is to stop feeding fruit and starchy or sugary treats.  If that doesn't fix it, then reduce the amount of pellets you are feeding your rabbit, and feed unlimited grass hay.

You should NEVER bathe your rabbit, unless it is absolutely necessary. Some rabbits will be ok with a bath, but most rabbits it will cause a lot of stress with, and the stress can make them sick. If your rabbit has a really bad poopy bum, then you can give a butt bath where you just get the bum wet to wash the poop off. I'm sorry about LhoeVhie. One of my rabbits died last summer and it was very heartbreaking. If you were bathing her with the mycocide shampoo, that may have been the cause of her seizure. There are certain chemicals that are toxic to rabbits. Fipronil commonly found in Frontline flea treatment, and shampoo and treatments containing pyrethrins, can be deadly to rabbits. These ingredients will cause seizures and death in rabbits.

Sometimes when a rabbit is getting an antibiotic for a bacterial problem, you will also need to give it a probiotic to reestablish the good bacteria in its gut, but you don't use yogurt because rabbits can't tolerate the milk lactose. There are probiotics in a gel tube or powder that are ok for rabbits. Bene bac and Probios are common ones used for pets. I'm not sure what you would have available to you where you live, but usually one that is used for horses is also ok for rabbits.

Lhousio may be aggressive because of hormones, but bathing him may also be causing him to be upset. Stop bathing him. Don't use the myococide shampoo anymore on any of your rabbits . If Lhucky is still having mite problems then there are other things that you use to treat that. If she has mites then she will have itchy flakey skin. 

You don't need to be giving vitamins to your rabbits either. Your rabbit food should have vitamins already in it. If your rabbit is skinny then you can feed it other things to help it gain weight. If it doesn't have poopy bum problems then you can just feed more pellets to help with weight gain, but vitamins aren't going to help it gain weight. The apple cider vinegar probably won't hurt anything, but I also don't know what it's supposed to help with, so you don't need to be giving that either. It certainly isn't going to help with Lhousio's aggression any. Actually the problem with his testicle may be causing some of the aggression. When a rabbit is in pain it will sometimes act out and even bite.

Yes, there are differences in operating on a rabbit or a dog. You want to try and find a vet that has at least done a spay or neuter on a rabbit before. Call or email the different vets and ask if they specialize in rabbits and if they have much experience operating on rabbits and doing spays and neuters. Have you already checked out the two vet listings here on Rabbitsonline. I also found these animal vet listings. Aycardo Vetrinary Center in Cebu City mentions that they see exotic animals. Rabbits here in the US are considered exotics. I don't know if it is the same there in the Philippines. You could also try University of the Philippines Veterinary School and Araneta University Veterinary Medicine. If they don't take rabbits, then maybe they will have the name of a good vet that does.

http://www.vetworld.com/vetworld/philippines.html
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f21/rabbit-savvy-vets-phillipines-42273/

Because your vets don't sound like they know very much about rabbits, you may want to post questions on here about medicines or things your vet says to do with your rabbits, so that you can get the opinions of the people on RO, on whether or not it will be safe or helpful for your rabbit.


----------



## dar1971

Hi, Im new here and even if this is quite an old post I would like to ask some info.
Im from Cebu Philippines and just got my bunny neutered a day ago.
Any tips on how can I bond again to my pet since I think he's a bit upset.
Thanks.


----------



## Bville

dar1971 said:


> Hi, Im new here and even if this is quite an old post I would like to ask some info.
> Im from Cebu Philippines and just got my bunny neutered a day ago.
> Any tips on how can I bond again to my pet since I think he's a bit upset.
> Thanks.



You can start your own thread with a question if you just go to the forum page, select the topic that best fits your question, and click "new thread." In the meantime, did you get pain medication from the vet? If not, call and ask them if you can get some. It helps them recover. In the US we use Metacam which is an antiinflammatory for pets. It may take a few days before your bunny is back to normal so be patient. How is he acting? Will he let you pet him? Can you hand feed him some of his favorite foods?


----------



## Lhucky

Give her treats daily, you'll gain her trust faster that way.. ( make sure that your treats are bunny safe ) Hehehe. Hand feeding also works well with my bunnies.


----------



## dar1971

Thanks for the response guys. Will prolly try the treats suggestion first and if it doesn't work (after a week or couple) I will start a new thread.

Ye, the vet gave him some pain reliever shots and some antibiotics. Anyway its just 2 days since he got neutered. I do notice the same day after he got the op, he wasn't in pain since he is not licking his wound or he does move around and eat. He is prolly just stressed out.

What I noticed when I pet him in his head he bows low as is he is hesitant or a bit afraid. Also, he is acting kinda reluctant to approach me even with treats. Was not like him before the op. I had this strange idea that my bunny had been traumatized with me or humans coz no matter how gentle the vet was still it was an OP that leaves him sore.


----------



## Channahs

Yes, he's angry with you. You picked him up and put him in a box and took him to a strange place that smelled funny where people he didn't know made him go to sleep. He woke up and his bits were gone. And ouch! Then you came back and took him back home. So now he's afraid. He's probably still sore which reminds him that you did this. LOL he's going to get past this. He will love you again, but you have to be patient and kind. Its been 3 weeks since Jovis spay and she's only just starting to trust us again.


----------



## dar1971

Yeah, Just what I was thinkin. Thanks for the reply. Will probably be patient and re-acquaint him again with gentleness and treats.


----------

