# Rabbit kit care, need help/advice



## Gary17 (Feb 15, 2006)

Hello, I am kinda new to rabbits and have some questions.

I have had a couple adult males for about 3 years so I know how to care for adults, but my wife got a female and put her in the cage with my males.Kinda thought it was OK since it was winter, didnt think they would breed in winter, a friend said they wouldnt... So I the female got pregnent and I didnt find out until today when I opened there hutch to for there 2 week cleaning, there were 4 live babbies and 3 dead ones. They must be just barely 2 weeks old becuase there eyes are open. So long storie short, what should I do?

I removed the males from her pen, but should I leave them out there? Im in Michigan, and while the winter has been kinda mild I'm afraid the cold may kill the rest of them. But I'm also afraid to move the mother with the young in the house, she's kinda jumpy and Im afraid the stress will make her harm the kits, and I'm also afraid to bring them in by there selves because I dont know how to hand raise the babies.

Advice?


----------



## JimD (Feb 15, 2006)

Hi Gary! Welcome to the forum!!

Here's a link to info that should help you...it's in the Rabbitry section of the forum.....

http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=5541&forum_id=8



~Jim


----------



## naturestee (Feb 15, 2006)

Hi and welcome! 

I moved this thread into the Rabbitry for you- more breeders read this section.

I've never raised babies, but the article at the top of the Rabbitry forum will take you through the basics. For now, all I can recommend is providing lots of hay for the babies to snuggle into. They will help keep each other warm.

So sorry about your lost ones.

urplepansy:


----------



## TinysMom (Feb 15, 2006)

Hi! I started a post to you earlier and then my computer locked up and I lost it. :?

First of all - taking the bucks out was a great decision.....

If the babies have their eyes open - I'm guessing they're at least 10 days old. By now, I would think you could move the mom and the babies into the house. You do have the option of giving them a nestbox (it could be a shoebox even) with hay in it - but if it is going to get cold - I'd bring them in. Then again - I have my rabbitry in my house and my babies are within a few feet of my desk!

The mom should not get too upset at having the babies moved at this age. They will still want to nurse off of her - but they can also eat hay and some oatmeal flakes (uncooked). Don't use the instant oatmeal - use the long-cooking kind if you choose to use it. 

Do NOT feed the mom greens and fruit for treats unless you stay right there with her until they are gone and make sure the little ones don't eat the treats. However - I find my little ones LOVE hay and they LOVE oatmeal (as does the mom). 

At this age, I "free-feed" both mom and babies. They're getting a lot from her and she needs a lot of food and water in order to nurse them well.

Feel free to PM me if you have more questions. If you decide to leave them outside - they can huddle together and stay somewhat warm since they have fur now....BUT...I'd definitely add hay (or a blanket if you check it every couple of days to make sure they aren't eating it). 

Peg


----------



## Gary17 (Feb 15, 2006)

Thank you for your advice and I am sorry I posted this in the wrong section of your forums, thank you for placing it in the correct area.

I would like to thank the last poster for your detailed advice. I would however just like to say one more time that the female is very jumpy, we bought her from a guy who raises rabbits to butcher (and as a result was never socialized), and she acts a bit wild at times although she has calmed a bit recently, my males must have rubbed off on her, and just want to be sure its really for the best. I know wild animals often kill/leave there young when there stressed or disturbed so I am not really sure about moving her from the outdoor hutch to wich she has became used to. 

Do you think she may hurt the kits as a result of stress or willthey be OK?

While I'm not very experienced with rabbit breeding, I'm highly experienced with poultry and know that hens may abondon chicks or eggs if there moved from there coop to a new area. So I'm just a bit worried...


----------



## SunnieBunnie Rabbitry (Feb 15, 2006)

I don't think you have anything to worry about with the mother regarding her babies... it sounds like she's doing a good job raising them, so I highly doubt she'll leave them.

*VERY IMPORTANT!!!! THAT WAS NOT MENTIONED EARLIER....*

*SHE COULDBE PREGNANT AGAIN NOW!*

Doe's are highly fertile after kindling (giving birth) and often do rebreed within minutes to hours after delivering - that is if a buck is available and in the same cage with her. I would put a box in with her as a precaution of her being pregnant. Giveher a place to safely have the babies in... a wooden box or even a shoe box as a temporary solution would work just fine.

She may need slightly increased feed now that she's nursinga litter and that litter will soon be eating solids... but don't feed her too much - you don't want her to develope mastisis or put on fat buildup on her body as that will cause complications of delivery for the next litter - *count on her delivering in 17-21 days from now (betweenFeb.28th and March 5th to be safe)*... (I'm estimating the babies are between 10-14 days old... if their eyes are open and you clean cages every 2 weeks).

I'll be watching this thread... so if you have any other questions or concerns - I'm very happy to help out anytime.


----------



## Snowballbunnie (Feb 15, 2006)

Peg,

Hi I was reading your reply to Gary17 and you said the kits could eat oats the old fashioned kind right?

In all my reading I do not think I have read that. Do you have anymore advice along thoselines you would mind sharring.



Claud:bunnydance:


----------



## TinysMom (Feb 16, 2006)

*Snowballbunnie wrote: *


> Peg,
> 
> Hi I was reading your reply to Gary17 and you said the kits could eat oats the old fashioned kind right?
> 
> ...


 Well - are you talking about tips about kits - or tips about breeding in general?

I don't give my kits a LOT of oats - and I'll try to go through my bookmarks and see where I first read it. It might have been in a book - I do a ton of reading (especially about rabbits).

I don't give them a lot of oats - but I do give them some. I have found that if they eat some oats and hay - it seems to be easier for them to then move onto mom's food in the food bowl. I am not sure why I've observed that.

I also do something crazy...but it works. I take critical care and mix it up with baby cereal...in the jar (rice cereal maybe) until it is stiff...and then I make "pellets" out of it and drop it in for them to eat....after their eyes open. I make maybe 1 tsp. per day for 3-5 days. I started this when I had two large litters for lionheads (7 and 8 babies) and I felt like they weren't getting enough nourishment from mama's cecal pellets (or whatever you call those things). 

Anyway, I will try to find my source for the information on oats. I am careful about it as I don't want them to eat too much dry stuff and not drink....so I make sure mama is nursing them....

Peg


----------



## SunnieBunnie Rabbitry (Feb 16, 2006)

*Snowballbunnie wrote: *


> In all my reading I do not think I have read that. Do you have anymore advice along thoselines you would mind sharring.
> 
> 
> 
> Claud:bunnydance:


 
This site might help you out a bit... LOADS of information :bunnydance:

OOPS!!!! Itmight help if I post the link



http://www.tsukiyo.org/argent/index.html


----------



## TinysMom (Feb 16, 2006)

*Snowballbunnie wrote: *


> Peg,
> 
> Hi I was reading your reply to Gary17 and you said the kits could eat oats the old fashioned kind right?
> 
> ...


 I first read this information in the following book:

*Lop Rabbits as Pets* by Sandy Crook - publication date - copyright 1986 by T.F.H. Publication

This book was recommended by our former moderator in our "cheat sheet" - in spite of the fact it is an older book. Personally, although I do not breed lops - I think every breeder should have a copy of it - I read this book ALL the time. On page 180 of my copy it says:

"When the eyes open, place some pellets and some crimped oats or dry old fashioned oatmeal in the nest box to introduce the kits to a solid diet. Introduction of a rabbit pellet specifically designed for babies or a creep feed is desirable."

My own comments here - although this book is an older book - it has been so helpful to me and I reread the breeding/kindling part almost every month about the time my does kindle (experienced breeders will tell you to breed more than one doe at a time so you can foster...I try to have my does all kindle within the same week usually). Why? Because it reminds me of the symptoms of a doe having problems and things to look for - and I am still new enough that I don't automatically remember such things.

Peg


----------



## TinysMom (Feb 16, 2006)

*SunnieBunnie Rabbitry wrote: *


> *Snowballbunnie wrote: *
> 
> 
> > In all my reading I do not think I have read that. Do you have anymore advice along thoselines you would mind sharring.
> ...


 

GREAT site....I've bookmarked it to look at later - it has a formula for nursing orphaned kits...

Peg


----------



## TinysMom (Feb 16, 2006)

*SunnieBunnie Rabbitry wrote: *


> *VERY IMPORTANT!!!! THAT WAS NOT MENTIONED EARLIER....*
> 
> *SHE COULDBE PREGNANT AGAIN NOW!*
> 
> ...


 Oh my! I never even thought of that - but you're right! 

I am not sure what SunnieBunnie will recommend (more specifically) - but here are my recommendations...

a. Take the kit away from mama around Feb. 21-23. I'd wean them away from her one or two per day at first - probably two per day. She's going to want to stop nursing them by then if she's pregnant. I'd take the biggest away so that on Feb. 21 she only nurses 4 adn then on Feb. 22 she only nurses 2 and then on Feb. 23 she maybe nurses one...and then thats it. That's if she doesn't drive them away....

b. Put the nestbox in around Feb. 25th or 26tfh. I don't remember what your doe is for breed - you can find nestboxes on Ebay or make them yourself out of wood. Let us know the breed of doe and we can get you dimensions for a nestbox I'm sure. 

c. Do NOT free-feed her like I may have mentioned above because she is pregnant. There can be complications and I don't want to scare you or worry you - it isn't like they're overly likely to happen if she's already healthy. But I would give her more than you normally give her.

Finally - remember that depending upon the breed - the kits can mate as young as 3 months (for smaller breeds). Have plans to separate them (bucks from does) by at least week 10 or 11...if they don't already have homes by then.

Good luck! Feel free to ask questions as thats what we're here for...

Peg


----------



## Gary17 (Feb 16, 2006)

Well thank you for letting me know she could be preg, I was told they couldnt get preg for two weeks or so after birth so thats more wrong information ppl have told me .

Anyway as far as breed im unsure, I think there rex or one of the basic breeds like that. I can name over 150 chicken breeds but I know almost nothing about rabbit breeds  . There around 6-7 pounds have basic fur length/body shape and 2are dark grey and1 of themales is albino.As far as the 4 surviving kits go 1 is dark grey, 1 is solid black and 2 are white.

Thanks for all the helpful information, its helped a lot.


----------



## SunnieBunnie Rabbitry (Feb 16, 2006)

> She may need slightly increased feed now that she's nursinga litter and that litter will soon be eating solids... but don't feed her too much - you don't want her to develope mastisis or put on fat buildup on her body as that will cause complications of delivery for the next litter - *count on her delivering in 17-21 days from now (betweenFeb.28th and March 5th to be safe)*... (I'm estimating the babies are between 10-14 days old... if their eyes are open and you clean cages every 2 weeks).


 
*TinysMom wrote: *


> Oh my! I never even thought of that - but you're right!
> 
> I am not sure what SunnieBunnie will recommend (more specifically) - but here are my recommendations...
> 
> a. Take the kit away from mama around Feb. 21-23. I'd wean them away from her one or two per day at first - probably two per day. She's going to want to stop nursing them by then if she's pregnant. I'd take the biggest away so that on Feb. 21 she only nurses 4 adn then on Feb. 22 she only nurses 2 and then on Feb. 23 she maybe nurses one...and then thats it. That's if she doesn't drive them away....





> *I would just leave the kits with her until she kindles again.... the reason being - they are only about 10-14 days old now - weaning on the 21st-23rd would make them only 3wks old at weaning... too young in my opinion, and weaning that early could cause more harm then good. When she kindles again, just wean the entire litter together - this will be less stressful on everybody, especially since she'll be nursing the other litter - you won't have to worry about mastisis. *





> b. Put the nestbox in around Feb. 25th or 26tfh. I don't remember what your doe is for breed - you can find nestboxes on Ebay or make them yourself out of wood. Let us know the breed of doe and we can get you dimensions for a nestbox I'm sure.





> *Just go ahead and put a nestbox in with her now since you don't know the specific date she will kindle, and the current little one's would benefit from one anyways. *





> c. Do NOT free-feed her like I may have mentioned above because she is pregnant. There can be complications and I don't want to scare you or worry you - it isn't like they're overly likely to happen if she's already healthy. But I would give her more than you normally give her.





> *Depending on how much you normally feed her - I would double it... BUT if there is some left over 24hrs later from that feeding... I would decrease by 1/4 cup until the bowl gets cleanned out after 24hr feeding intervals. Just monitor her condition and the babies growth rate... if it seems they aren't getting enough to eat - feed more... if it seems they're getting too much and are leaving food - feed less.*





> Finally - remember that depending upon the breed - the kits can mate as young as 3 months (for smaller breeds). Have plans to separate them (bucks from does) by at least week 10 or 11...if they don't already have homes by then.





> *Correct. (Although I personally know a doe who conceived her 1st litter at 2mos old - her *gifted* brother quickly matured and fathered 2 litters, hers and his mothers next one :?.)*





> Good luck! Feel free to ask questions as thats what we're here for...
> 
> Peg


----------



## TinysMom (Feb 16, 2006)

SunnieBunnie is more experienced than me - so follow her advice. I've not had the situation where one doe gets pregnant right after having a litter (other than one time when I fostered teh ONE baby she had and rebred her - but I had a specific reason for that).

Peg


----------



## Gary17 (Feb 16, 2006)

one more question, is it ok to handle the babbies at 2 weeks old? I heard mother rabbits wont except a kit if it smells of human to much. The're just so cute its hard to resist holding them


----------



## SunnieBunnie Rabbitry (Feb 16, 2006)

That is mostly myth...

The majority of the time, does do not mind if the kits are checked on or handled... With my rabbits, I handle them from the minute they're born. This is also the norm for the majority of breeders.


----------



## fire22 (Feb 18, 2006)

Gary at 2 weeks old I would not worry about leaving them out side. It is fifteen bellow zero this morning here I have 7 day old kits in the shed and they seam to be fine. I also have some that are about the same age as yours and the are starting to eat. BY two weeks they should have enough fur to keep them selfs warm. Good luck.


----------



## Gary17 (Feb 19, 2006)

Hello, I just wanted to come in with a update...

I took the kits and mother in a few days ago and placed them in a large dog cage. The kits have a nest box in the cage with the mother. The problem is I'm a little concerned about her feeding them. I dont know if its the stress of being indoors or something, or perhaps its normal behavior, but I dont think she's feeding them right. I know rabbits only feed there young a couple time a day quickly so perhaps I miss it, but the kits are able to get out of the nest box. I Observe them trying to feed from her and she jumps or pulls away, or even lays flat on her stomach not alowing them to feed from her. I'm concerned by the fact she seems to try to keep them from feeding. IS there anything i can do, should I try to take them away and hand raise them? Anything specific I should feed them, beside the formentioned slow oat meal.


----------



## TinysMom (Feb 19, 2006)

Hi again!

I wouldn't worry about the mom and the babies. First of all - young rabbits are little pigs. You've probably seen ads or jokes where kids are saying, "Are we there yet?" every 5 miles? Well - babies are like that too - only its "Can I have a drink now?" - every time they get bored or want something. Its kinda like "Oh...there's mom - I'm gonna go steal a drink while everyone is asleep..". 

Right....like mama really wants them doing that.

By now they should be eating hay, oats/oatmeal and possibly some of her food. If they're doing that - don't worry about it....trust me - she is probably nursing them. 

Also remember that if she is pregnant again - she is going to wean them early....because of the coming litter. 

If they're active and running around and looking healthy - then they're probably just fine. I have a litter here that was born at the end of January (I don't have my datebook handy) and mama does the same thing. But they're very active for several hours a day....and I have seen her nurse them - so even though she usually tries to get away from them - they're fine.

By the way - remember that in the wild - mom would only come to visit them once or twice a day and not be trapped in a cage with them to ahve them continually wanting to nurse!

Peg


----------



## SunnieBunnie Rabbitry (Feb 19, 2006)

I agree with Peg.

It happens with nearly every litter I have too. As long as they look and feel healthy, there's nothing to worry about.

BUT, if they start LOOKING like they're starving - real thin & boney... then I would worry.

Good Job! They sound happy and comfortable


----------



## Akkatia (Feb 19, 2006)

Well, first you need a nest box about 7 inches wide, 13 inches long, and 7 inchestall. Don't worry, I know how to do this kind of stuff. I have baby rabbits at least once a month, if not more, because I'm a Dutch show breeder. Well, once you have a nest box, put about two inches of bedding at the bottom of the box and two inches of hay on top of that. Make a little nest in the middle of the hay and place the kits in it. If you're lucky, the mother still might pull her fur out. See, when rabbits have kits, they'll rip their fur out to keep their babies warm. If she does or doesn't you still need a heat lamp. place a heat lamp over the cage for them. After your done messing with everything, get a cotton ball and some vanilla extract and smear it on all the kits' foreheads, and then smear it on the mother's nose. Then she won't be able to smell you. At seven weeks old, you can sell them. By nine weeks old, you need to get rid of all of them before they start reproducing again.

You CANNOT put doe and buck rabbits together EVER. It doesn't matter what month or season it is, it just doesn't work that way. They breed so rapidly. It takes on average thiry-one days for a rabbit to give birth, and when they give birth, they are able to be bred again, although this is very stressing to the rabbit, and it couldn't be good for it. If you're not a breeder, and you don't want to be, thatn DON'T PUT DOES AND BUCKS TOGETHER!! Spay and neuter them if that's what you want to do.


----------



## SunnieBunnie Rabbitry (Feb 19, 2006)

*Akkatia wrote: *


> Well, first you need a nest box about 7 inches wide, 13 inches long, and 7 inchestall. Don't worry, I know how to do this kind of stuff. I have baby rabbits at least once a month, if not more, because I'm a Dutch show breeder. Well, once you have a nest box, put about two inches of bedding at the bottom of the box and two inches of hay on top of that. Make a little nest in the middle of the hay and place the kits in it. If you're lucky, the mother still might pull her fur out. See, when rabbits have kits, they'll rip their fur out to keep their babies warm. If she does or doesn't you still need a heat lamp. place a heat lamp over the cage for them. After your done messing with everything, get a cotton ball and some vanilla extract and smear it on all the kits' foreheads, and then smear it on the mother's nose. Then she won't be able to smell you. At seven weeks old, you can sell them. By nine weeks old, you need to get rid of all of them before they start reproducing again.
> 
> You CANNOT put doe and buck rabbits together EVER. It doesn't matter what month or season it is, it just doesn't work that way. They breed so rapidly. It takes on average thiry-one days for a rabbit to give birth, and when they give birth, they are able to be bred again, although this is very stressing to the rabbit, and it couldn't be good for it. If you're not a breeder, and you don't want to be, thatn DON'T PUT DOES AND BUCKS TOGETHER!! Spay and neuter them if that's what you want to do.


 Okay, let's not jump the gun here...

He said in his original post, the kits in this litter are already about 2wks with their eyes open... you and I BOTH know that once their eyes open, it's hard to keep them in the box. He stated earlier that he does not know the breeds of the rabbits... so I'm going to say it's safe to assume they're "average" size - about the size of a New Zealand - if that's the case, the dimensions of the box you provided are too small... He'll need about 1ft wide by 1 1/2 feet deep by 9 inches to 1ft tall.

He's did not breed these rabbits purposefully and unfortunately was misinformed about winter breedings - it is not his fault. We're just trying toprepare him for the real possibility of another impending litter that she very well may be carrying. He is now aware of the previous misinformation and does not need a lecture, but rather guidance for his current situation. He has taken the first RESPONSIBLE step by asking for help and advice here... instead of just sitting on his hands and takes what comes at him without a thought or care. I applaud him for this and wish there were more people like him out there whoactually want to learn from mistakes or misshaps to prevent it from happening again.

I STRONGLY would advise AGAINST using the heat lamp for the main reason that it is the biggest cause of loss of litters due to accidents. It's too easy for the heat lamp to fall on the kits burning them, or it being placed too close and scalding them. Not to mention the risk of fire hazzard when unattended. If mom does her job right, the kits will be warm enough on their own together under her fur and in the bedding. Please, Please trust me on this.

As far as the Vanilla - it's not necessary... unless it is a very skiddish doe who has lost previous litters due to handling &/or other issues. I've never had to hide my scent on litters - even immediately after their birth, and even for new does to my herd or first-timers.

Spay & Neuters aren't always within budget for most people who own rabbits. And they don't have to be fixed in order to prevent litters. As long as they are housed separately and have alternating out of cage play time... it won't be an issue. Plus, I think it is up to him on what he wants to do with the babies... he doesn't have to sell them or get rid of them if he doesn't want to. There are some great links and topics on this forum to help him tell bucks from doe's. If he needs more help deciphering, I'm sure he'll ask.

So let's not go jumping down people's throats, okay? I'm sure we've all been in his shoes before - at least I know I have.


----------



## Gary17 (Feb 21, 2006)

Thanks for comming to my defense sunniebunnie


----------



## TinysMom (Feb 21, 2006)

First of all - I'd like to remind folks that Gary came here for help because he had been given misinformation before (if I remember right). He's trying to do what is best for his rabbits.

Secondly, I want to point out that each breeder is going to do some things differently. Some breeders will use vanilla - others won't. Some breeders will use a heat lamp (or a heating bad set on low) - others don't.

The vanilla trick is great IF you have a skittish doe that seems to be upset about you touching her rabbits. Some breeds I have seen also tend to be more skittish than others. Some rabbits are just more skittish than others.

So Gary - you basically face the decision that every breeder faces....and that is...

"Out of all the information available - what do I feel I need to do for this doe and this litter?"

I've had does where I've removed the nestbox the first few days (till the baby's eyes were open) because the does were so aggressive. I've had other does that were great and the babies are fine with them. 

It's going to be a matter of taking all the information and breaking it down and deciding what you feel is most appropriate for your doe.

However, I think that the fact that your doe pulled fur and successfully raised this first breed this far - shows that she can keep them warm...you may need to help with extra hay or whatever - but if she is going to have another litter...I think she'll be ok.

Finally - I really want to commend you for finding out what is and isn't correct information. I hope we've really been of help AND encouragement to you. Mistakes happen....its what we do after them that matters the most (in my opinion)!

Peg


----------



## TinysMom (Mar 8, 2006)

Bumping this topic to see how the babies are doing!

Peg


----------

