# Carrot has diarrhea!



## MILU (Aug 25, 2013)

OMG Carrot has diarrhea.. 
I don't know how serious this is for bunnies. I don't know what to do. 

She eats pellets, carrot tops, cauliflower leaves and broccoli leaves. I gave her some 3 beetroot leaves the other day. 

When she got here (this is her 5th night here), her pee was orange (very strong color and smell). She's all orange too (stained) that's why they called her Carrot I guess.. I don't know if she's ok. It seems like she went to the vet before coming to me and they said she's ok - but our vets suck, they also failed to check Bilém's ears, you from RO are the ones who helped me treating her! 

Carrot's poop wasn't bad when she arrived, the urine was. Now the urine is better and the poop is weird. Some poops seem ok, just darker, but today I saw diarrhea. I saw her area a bit stained during the day but just saw the actual thing now. There were 3 "watery" footprints and then I she used her toilet and I saw it, took a pic. Even her nose is dirty. I hope I can do something to help her, hopefully without going to the "vets" here, 'cause they always fail to recognize any problems (if they don't actually kill the animal). THANK YOU VERY MUCH for your help!!! 

Age: probably less than 6 months (she's rescued, so I don't know for sure) 

Breed: I don't know - white new zealand? (or crossbreed)


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## MILU (Aug 25, 2013)

Please help... I don't know if it's her diet.. I hope so! Please pray for her!


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## MILU (Aug 25, 2013)

Just in case - her urine was already curry orange before she had beetroot leaves.


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## JBun (Aug 25, 2013)

Usually for diarrhea it's the kind of thing where you need to get the rabbit to the vet immediately, in part because they can dehydrate so quickly. If you can get her to the vet she'll probably need sub q fluids, and you'll want to have them do a fecal test, to test for parasites/bacteria as the cause of the diarrhea. If you aren't sure of any meds that get prescribed, you could always post here to find out if they are considered safe for rabbits. You should probably also stop the veggies for now in case they are contributing to the problem.

The color of pee can be influenced by the food in a rabbits diet. Dehydration can also affect the look of a rabbits urine.

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f22/diarrhea-10389/


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## MILU (Aug 25, 2013)

I threw peroxide in the urine and poop - the poop bubbled right away, the urine took 1 or 2 seconds and bubbled too. If there's anything I can do at home, please let me know


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## JBun (Aug 25, 2013)

If she is continuing to have diarrhea and it wasn't a one time thing, and if for some reason you can't get her to a vet right away, you will want to keep her hydrated. If you have and know how to do sub q fluids, then that would be good to give her. Otherwise you'll want to keep her hydrated with electrolytes. You can use something like a plain unflavored children's rehydration solution. If you can't get that, there is this homemade mix:

recipe for Oral Rehydration Therapy (ORT) solution
1 cup clean warm water
2 teaspoons sugar
1/4 teaspoon baking soda
3/16 teaspoon salt (take some out of a 1/4 tsp. or use a rounded 1/8 tsp.)

You'll have to syringe feed it to her if she won't drink on her own. You may also need to be syringing a pellet mush(or Critical Care recovery food if you have it) if she has stopped eating on her own. Make sure to syringe slowly and give her time to swallow so she doesn't aspirate anything. But especially if you are seeing blood, she needs to get to a vet right away, and possibly treated for coccidiosis, which requires specific medications to clear it up. Ones used here in the US are Corid, Sul Met, Di Methox, toltrazuril, and ponzuril. It's also possible a bacteria like e. coli is the cause, and that would need to be treated with antibiotics as well. Just make sure they are rabbit safe ones.

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm

Also check the previous link I provided as there may be other useful info.

If she only had the one bit of diarrhea and seems to be having more normal poop now, see how she does now that you've stopped those veggies. It is possible that she had a bad reaction to one of the veggies, but usually diarrhea seems to be caused by bacteria or parasites.


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## MILU (Aug 25, 2013)

She refuses to eat pellets, can I let her eat carrot? 

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP! I'm chatting with 2 people from the rescue group - one is a vet (not sure if rabbit's) .. oh my.. now they said from 7 bunnies of this group, 3 died from diarrhea.. gosh I can't believe it! And they're asking ME what's the reason she's got it!!???
I'm telling you, our vets aren't that great. 
They told me to give some honey? And said there's nothing I can do now, nowhere to take her at least until 9 a.m. tomorrow (8 more hours)
I'll do what you told me instead. I trust you, RO has always helped my rabbits. THANK YOU AGAIN!


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## MILU (Aug 26, 2013)

Darn - I don't have a syringe.. I don't know where I can buy one at this time.....


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## MILU (Aug 26, 2013)

hmm can I give coconut water? I have it fresh here. It's usually good for dehydration (in people at leadt)
I can probably try to give her the sub-q if she needs it urgently - I can go find a drugstore and buy a syringe and what she needs. I guess it's better than waiting 8 hours.. she doesn't want to lay down at her usual place.. not a good sign I suppose.


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## JBun (Aug 26, 2013)

If other rabbits from her group have died from this, I would highly suspect coccidiosis as being the cause. It is HIGHLY contagious and can very likely prove fatal if not treated immediately. I don't know if you will be able to get the meds immediately, but she really does need them *right now*, if at all possible. These are ones used to treat it: sulfadimethoxine, amprolium(Corid), sulfamethazine, ponzuril, toltrazuril. A vet may have one of these or you may be able to find something at a feed store for livestock.

You can soak her pellets in warm water and try and feed them to her. You will either need a syringe with a large opening or you could try blending it in a blender to make it smooth enough to use a syringe with a smaller opening. Any pharmacy will have syringes. You don't want the luer lock type. Usually for syringe feeding 6-12cc is good, and 1cc for giving meds. A dropper could be used in a pinch if you can't get a syringe. If pellets aren't going to work out you can also give plain canned pumpkin(not the spiced pie filling). I have no experience with coconut water. Electrolytes are essentially needed to replace lost sodium and glucose(or sugar). Could you not just mix some up based on the recipe in my previous post?

But the most important thing for her survival right now is the med for coccidiosis and some electrolytes.


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## MILU (Aug 26, 2013)

I made your mix and she's drunk a lot of it!  
Is there anything like "too much" of it? I'll keep giving it to her. 
I found a small syringe here (1cc), I'm using it for the electrolyte mix.

According to the girls from the rescue group, there's no vet I could take her to right now. Are those meds you mentioned sold in drugstores for people too? If so, tell me which I should buy and I'll go get it now.


I trust you way better than vets here... you guys from RO have always been right, I'll never forget you gave MILU 1 extra year of life (when our "best" vets were killing him giving wrong shots and diagnosis!!!) and RO saved Bilém from ear mites too! Carrot has got to make it, I owe it to her and I trust RO. Thank you for being so kind, Jenny!


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## MILU (Aug 26, 2013)

Good news - I checked her and just saw she's in her cage (bathroom) and there are some poops there, some is diarrheal (not as watery as before, phew!) and a few (very few) are round poops  

Her stomach is still roaring and she might still be in pain (or she'd be lain down out of her bathroom) but I guess she'll make it until I can get her meds. Are they safe? Is there one that is safer? Just let me know what I should get, how to give (how much, etc) and I'll do it.

It's likely that the vet won't prescribe but fluids and pellet sludge again, reason why 3 bunnies of her group died already.


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## JBun (Aug 26, 2013)

If you can get food and plain water into her, there's no need to continue with the electrolytes. You probably shouldn't continue it too long because so much straight sugar won't be good on her digestion. It's mostly something to give in the beginning to get them hydrated again, before you start feeding them food.

For coccidiosis, ponzuril or toltrazuril is supposed to work the best and be the most effective, but they may be expensive, at least here in the US they are. The sulfa meds are antibiotics, so you may be able to get them at a pharmacy. I really have no idea though. I'm not absolutely certain on dosages either, but I'll give you some possible dosages that I've come across, but it may be good to try and do some research to be sure.

Ponzuril- 20mg/kg
Toltrazuril- 2.5-5mg/kg once a day for 5 days
Sulfadimethixone- 25mg/kg(?), or 0.5-0.7g/L drinking water
Amprolium(Corid)- 0.07cc/lb(?), or 0.5ml in 500 ml drinking water

There are a few other sulfa meds mentioned that are supposed to be effective as well(sulfaquinoxaline, trimethoprim sulfa), but toltrazuril and ponzuril are supposed to be the best ones to use if you can get a hold of them. They are used for horses, so you may be able to find them at a feed store or large animal vet. If you have non dairy probiotics, it would be good to get her started on that right away as well.

Here are the links where I found the dosage info:
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/squirts.pdf
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Protozoal_diseases/Cocc_en.htm (contains graphic pictures)
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/exo...ls/rabbits/parasitic_diseases_of_rabbits.html

I of course, can't say for certain if this is coccidiosis. I'm just making a guess from the symptoms you described, and because of the other rabbits dying, so if it is at all possible, getting a fecal test done to confirm it would be a good idea. If it is cocci, you will need to disinfect things with a 10% ammonia solution and rinse everything off after so it is safe for the rabbit.


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## Maureen Las (Aug 26, 2013)

I have only a moment here but (if someone didn't suggest it previously) stop feeding all veggies and pellets and give her a good quality timothy or grass hay . Do not feed fruit or sugary veggies like carrots. Do not give her sugar or honey; it will compound the problem one hundred fold. Until you can get to a vet you can also give a probiotic . 
Sorry but due to time I could only skim this thread


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## MILU (Aug 26, 2013)

I never thought I'd say that, but it seems that, for the 1st time ever, I've found a good vet!! The girls from the rescue group indicated him. He was careful enough to examine and see that Carrot might be pregnant, so he decided to give an antibiotic that isn't too strong (ampicillin I think). He offered to come to my home to give the other shots that she'll need.
Her weight is 3.250 Kg (7.165 pounds). He told me I can give veggies but let them sit for a while until they dehydrate a little. I put some in the oven, she ate just a few bites, drank a lot of the electrolyte mix Jenny taught me. Ok, I'll stop giving it to her.
He seemed nice and owns a rabbit, so he does have some experience with rabbits after all&#8230; 
Thanks for stoping by, Angieluv! Can I give dehydrated veggies? She won't eat anything else..


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## jemm (Aug 26, 2013)

Hey brazil just seen this thread, how terrible for you, Devon carrot is praying for you and keeping her toes crossed as am I, hope it all works out for you,:wiggle


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## MILU (Aug 26, 2013)

Thank you and Devon Carrot!! Your prayers mean very much to us! Brazilian Carrot appreciates!!


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## MILU (Aug 26, 2013)

Ah, I forgot to mention that the vet didn't ask for any tests, I gues testing bunnies is very rare in Brazil. They hardly test people when they go to the dr!


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## MILU (Aug 26, 2013)

Now, some time after the antibiotic (ampicillin?) it seems like she wants to poop but can't. She pooped quite a few droppings (like 10), and very very small too. I see her often in her cage (her toilet) as if she's there preparing for it but can't (my opinion). I'm not sure if she's just urinating or what. 

She wants to eat fresh veggies, isn't eating anything else. I'm not sure if it's better to give them and have her fed something, or waiting to see when (if ever) she'll touch her pellets again. Could oats or wheat grains or popcorn kernels or something else be an alternative in case she doesn't touch her pellets any soon?

* My aunt said some people treat diarrhea with corn starch + water.. told me maybe I should try that with Carrot.. I'm not sure if that's ok though. Suggestions? 

Thanks a lot!


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## JBun (Aug 26, 2013)

Diarrhea in rabbit's is very different than with people. I don't think cornstarch would be a good idea. Besides it sounds like she is now swinging to the opposite end and instead of diarrhea she may be going into GI stasis. If she will eat fresh veggies then it might be ok to feed her very basic ones like dark green leafy lettuce, cilantro, parsley. Probably best to avoid any cruciferous veggies for now, in case they cause gas and further digestive upset. If you are seeing very small and infrequent droppings now, that is the start of stasis. It is best to stop pellets and any grains, sugars, starches, and treats, and feed only hay and (usually)leafy veggies, to try and prevent a full blockage from occurring. What she needs is lots of fiber and moisture(from water and veggies) to help get her digestive system moving normally again. I don't know if you are feeding a probiotic, but now that she is on antibiotics, it is especially important.

So did the vet not think it was coccidiosis? Was the antibiotic given as an injection? Penicillin type antibiotics are very dangerous to give to rabbits orally so hopefully it was an injection. I'm glad you have found a vet that may be able to help. I'm sure that it is a relief to you as well.


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## geekgirl101 (Aug 26, 2013)

Take her to a vet and don't feed her carrots for a while, they're high in sugar and could be what is causing the diahorrea but then there might be other reasons for it and a visit to the vet should be able to explain what is causing it. You may do well in replacing the cabbage and broccoli leaves with curly kale and fresh herbs for a while since they can cause GI problems if fed in too large quantities, and if she's passing diahorrea then it's probably best not to fed her those for a while until she's recovered. Are you feeding her normal hay or alfalfa?


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## tonyshuman (Aug 26, 2013)

I'd stay away from all veggies for now. Dehydrated veggies is kinda weird. Usually bunnies need the water in the veggies. I am not sure if the coccidia issue has been addressed? Did the vet look at the feces for coccida eggs?


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## MILU (Aug 27, 2013)

Yes, the vet said it's probably coccidiosis, the antibiotic was given as an injection. Isn't it good for treating it?  If you think so, I can stop that and do something else myself, I'll do whatever you tell me to. 

Carrot has made a few more droppings, they seem very dry. This morning I also saw brown footprints in her area, which are a mystery since her droppings seem dry - (?????)

I've been giving only carrot tops, broccoli and cauliflower leaves, but she refuses to eat carrot tops too now. I also got bok choy, spinach, romaine lettuce, cabbage and beetroot leaves here - mostly cruciferous  - let me know if any of those would work. If you let me know what other types of veggies I can give (besides the ones you mentioned), I'll buy them. The vet said lettuce will give her a stomachache.. can I give it to her? 

She's not yet on probiotics, I have a problem finding it, as well as hay. Probiotics here usually have lactose. If I can give some that has lactose, I think I can find it..


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## jemm (Aug 27, 2013)

Don't know anything to help brazil but I did a bit of digging and this thread might be of some use fingers crossed 
http://www.rabbitretreat.com/showthread.php?tid=4711&page=2&highlight=Coccid


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## MILU (Aug 27, 2013)

Just in case - No, the vet didn't make any tests to know what she has, didn't look at any feces, so he didn't look for coccidia eggs. He just said he guessed so when I mentioned it. Vets (or even doctors) here hardly ever ask for tests or exams. 

He just gave her a shot of ampicillin and will come back every day to give her more of these shots. If you think that's not the right procedure for treating coccidiosis, let me know and I'll change the treatment myself, like I did to MILU when other vets made mistakes that almost killed him... 

Hay is hard to find here, so I'm not feeding her hay. We don't have curly kale as well. I'll get alfafa for her. 

I've found this listed on a pet store for probiotics, do you think it can be used (having in mind there's nothing specific for rabbits here)?

"Organew 
To be taken orally, added to the food.

Dogs: 2.5 g per 10 kg of body weight once a day.
Cats: 1 g once daily.
Poultry: 1-2 g per kg feed.
Indication: Dogs, Cats, Birds
Breed: All
Age: All
Brand: Vetnil
Type: Pharmaceutical
Composition: Crude Protein (min) ............................ 202.10 g
Ether extract (min) ........................... 3,500 mg
Fibrous matter (max) ........................... 41.60 g
Mineral matter (max) ........................... 72.30 g
Moisture (max) ..................................... 79.40 g
Saccharomyces cerevisiae 9 x 109 CFU ...............
MOS ....................... 1.000 mg
Fructo-oligosaccharides ........................ 2,000 mg
Vitamin B1 (min) ................................ 6.75 mg
Vitamin B2 (min) ................................... 19 mg
Vitamin B6 (min) ............................. 13,468 mg
Vitamin B12 (min) ................................ 24 mcg
Biotin (min) ......................................... 2.8 mg
Folic Acid (min) ................................... 10 mg
Inositol (min) ..................................... 1,200 mg
Choline (min) ......................................... 774 mg
Nicotinic Acid (min) ......................... 20.30 mg
Lysine (min) .......................................... 17.72 g
Histidine (min) ................................... 4,520 mg
Arginine (min) .................................... 6,920 mg
Aspartic Acid (min) ............................ 17.24 g
Threonine (min) ................................... 9,880 mg
Serine (min) ...................................... 6,920 mg
Ác. Glutamic (min) ................................ 19.04 g
Proline (min) ...................................... 6,040 mg
Glycine (min) ...................................... 7,160 mg
Alanine (min) ........................................ 10.84 g
Cystine (min) ...................................... 1,280 mg
Valine (min) ....................................... 9,120 mg
Methionine (min) .................................. 7,240 mg
Isoleucine (min) .................................. 7,680 mg
Leucine (min) ........................................ 12.08 g
Tyrosine (min) ..................................... 3,760 mg
Phenylalanine (min) ............................... 8,520 mg
Tryptophan (min) ................................. 1,800 mg
Size: 100gr"


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## MILU (Aug 27, 2013)

That's a nice story Jemm, but even if I ordered something, it'd take at least 1 or 2 months for it to get here, passing through customs takes long...


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## JBun (Aug 27, 2013)

You should probably avoid the cruciferous veggies like broccoli, cauliflower, bok choy, cabbage, and maybe the beetroot leaves also. Maybe the dark green leafy part of romaine would be ok The light colored part of lettuce and iceburg lettuce, is what can give a rabbit a stomach ache and cause diarrhea, but usually the dark green stuff is ok for them. Cilantro and parsley also are usually well tolerated by rabbits too. Is there any way you can even get a small bag of grass hay? Hay really is the best thing for rabbits, especially when they are having digestive problems. I guess if you can't then just do the best with what you have.

Ampicillin isn't going to do anything for coccidiosis, which is a parasite and not a bacteria. Only very specific medications are going to be effective against the parasite. Only the ones I listed are going to do anything to get it under control if this is what she has. If there is something like e. coli causing the diarrhea, then the ampicillin would help, just not if it's cocci. Could you ask this vet if maybe he has one of the medications that I listed above? The ponzuril or toltrazuril may be difficult to find, but one of the sulfa meds should be easy as they are a pretty common antibiotic, and the only antibiotics effective against coccidiosis. 

You can use a probiotic used for cats and dogs. I don't think I would use that one as it has all those added vitamins which you don't need, but something like that that just has the probiotic part would be good.


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## MILU (Aug 27, 2013)

Oh shoot, I already bought that probiotic.. is it bad for bunnies? I still didn't give it, but it's what I have now... 

I bought escarole, cilantro, celery and arugula. She ate a little bit of each, but not much at all. I took some grass from a garden but she doesn't want it. I got alfalfa hay but she refuses to eat it too  

I also bought some simethicone, do you think it can help her bloating? If so, how much should I give? 

Do you suggest I ask the vet to stop his shots and introduce the ones you mentioned or finish his? (it seems like if you discontinue antibiotics they'll mess everything up?) 

Thanks again


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## RabbitGirl101 (Aug 27, 2013)

Take her off any pellets, feed her rolled oats, lots of hay try to tempt her with things like parsley, basil and any other treats that she absolutely loves? An orange color in the urine is normal it varies for each rabbit depending on the diet. The diarrhea is very serious if its not gone within 24hrs take her to the vet. I had a rabbit that we took in, we were lucky we did the vet said if we hadnt brought her in when we did she would have died.


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## JBun (Aug 27, 2013)

I don't know about the vitamin amounts in that probiotic, so it's up to you whether or not you want to try it, but if you do, it would probably be good to start out with a very tiny amount.

The problem with continuing with that antibiotic and not immediately changing to one that can treat coccidiosis, is that if she does in fact have coccidiosis, the ampicillin will have no effect in helping her get better. So you are really giving the medication for no reason, and in the meantime the parasite is continuing to cause damage. But this is if she does in fact have coccidiosis. Without a fecal test, there's no way to know for sure. But if she does have it and the correct treatment isn't given immediately, it's likely she won't survive. It's really up to you to decide what might be the best thing to do. I can only offer suggestions based on my experience, and that's just from what I've read and from having my own rabbits.

If she seems to have a little bloating or firm belly from gas, the simethicone may help, but more important is getting her the correct medicine for what is wrong with her.

Since she's not eating very much, you may also need to be syringe or spoon feeding her.


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## MILU (Aug 27, 2013)

I think she doesn't have diarrhea anymore. Her urine looks ok (I've been giving lots of water!) 

Now I know the probiotic I got isn't ideal but I wonder if I can give it or not.. I saw some other ones online and they have vitamins too. I guess all do.


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## MILU (Aug 27, 2013)

I'd totally switch her treatment RIGHT NOW and follow your advice, but sometimes vets aren't willing to do it. It's happened to my other bunny. 

I have to talk to the vet.. yesterday he said I could call and he'd come here. I called like 2 hours ago, left messages but he didn't call back. I'm only here for 1 more hour, then work again and only come back at 10:30 pm, so I don't even know if I'll really see him today. Based on my experience, it's unlikely that he'll want to switch treatment. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't. Believe me, I trust you guys from RO more than anyone else in this world! IF THERE'S ANY WAY I CAN SWITCH TREATMENT MYSELF, LET ME KNOW AND I WILL!!!


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## MILU (Aug 27, 2013)

I'm searching for those meds online and can't find them for sale on brazilian websites. I've found sulfamethazine (associated to other stuff) only in ear drops for cats. At this point, I wonder if the vet gave ampicillin 'cause we don't have those meds....  and if I'll have to watch Carrot slowly dying...


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## jemm (Aug 27, 2013)

Really wish we could help you and carrot at the moment, if there is anything just say


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## jemm (Aug 27, 2013)

http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/Easicox-...or-pigeons-rabbits-250ml/productinfo/EASICOX/


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## JBun (Aug 27, 2013)

Maybe you could try asking the vet about using one of the sulfa medications. Or if you have feed stores for farm animals, they may have something there as some of these medications are ones that are also used in chickens and other livestock that get coccidiosis.

It is possible that her immune system may fight off what ever has made her sick, and if her diarrhea was caused by bacteria and not the parasite, then the antibiotic she's now getting will probably help. Your doing the best you can with what you have available. I'm sure it's frustrating sometimes, to not have access to things you need to help these rabbits.


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## MILU (Aug 27, 2013)

Jemm, you can help me by giving a big kiss on your bunnies for me  They're so cute and smart! Thank you so much, your support and prayers mean a lot to me!!!!

I can ask the vet about the sulfa meds when I see him. He was supposed to come give Carrot a shot here today, but didn't. Told me to call again tomorrow to remind him. I called today but he didn't answer, I left a msg but he didn't call back.. I hope I find him more easily tomorrow. 

She made a few tiny droppings, didn't eat anymore but I guess I can make her eat a little more. Her belly still roars loud and peroxide still reacts (bubbles) when I put it on her urine and droppings. I'm not sure if it's suppose to bubble, I guess not? 
She seems ok, she can still run and play, but I know she's suffering. My heart is shattered. If she has to go, I'll accept it, I just don't want her to suffer, and I really wish she could live to see what a wonderful life she'll have! As a matter of fact, 10 days ago we lost another bunny I took care of. It seems like she had a growth and the vet didn't care. She was adopted and lived in her new home with a bunny-friend for some months.. so sad! Then my other bunny (Bilém) was adopted and now Carrot is sick... this has been a hard month for me, I'm falling apart... thank you all for your priceless support and care!


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## MILU (Aug 27, 2013)

Jemm, you can help me by giving a big kiss on your bunnies for me  They're so cute and smart! Thank you so much, your support and prayers mean a lot to me!!!!

I can ask the vet about the sulfa meds when I see him. He was supposed to come give Carrot a shot here today, but didn't. Told me to call again tomorrow to remind him. I called today but he didn't answer, I left a msg but he didn't call back.. I hope I find him more easily tomorrow. 

She made a few tiny droppings, didn't eat anymore but I guess I can make her eat a little more. Her belly still roars loud and peroxide still reacts (bubbles) when I put it on her urine and droppings. I'm not sure if it's suppose to bubble, I guess not? 
She seems ok, she can still run and play, but I know she's suffering. My heart is shattered. If she has to go, I'll accept it, I just don't want her to suffer, and I really wish she could live to see what a wonderful life she'll have! As a matter of fact, 10 days ago we lost another bunny I took care of. It seems like she had a growth and the vet didn't care. She was adopted and lived in her new home with a bunny-friend for some months.. so sad! Then my other bunny (Bilém) was adopted and now Carrot is sick... this has been a hard month for me, I'm falling apart... thank you all for your priceless support and care!


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## MILU (Aug 27, 2013)

Her urine is orange with distinct red streaks. She only ate a little cilantro, celery and escarole. She doesn't want to eat anymore. Only a couple of bites of escarole now. She doesn't even want alfalfa.


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## MILU (Aug 28, 2013)

I guess I freaked out. Her urine is ok again. She bit me when I made her go from the living room to her area.


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## MILU (Aug 28, 2013)

This morning I saw she ate and pooped a little more, 'cause the antibiotic course was interrupted, so it's not bothering her that much anymore. A pic of her litter tray (why I freaked out because of the urine color):







* those are all the droppings she's made since yesterday


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## RabbitGirl101 (Aug 28, 2013)

The urine color looks normal, the urine can range from a pale yellow, to a dark orangey-red to a dark brownish red. The Red urine is caused by pigments in food, carrots and spinach can make the urine look more red. 

Right now I would try to entice her to eat more, I know my kits I'm growing out produce that much poop in a minute when I let them run around inside and it's always a pain to clean up their entire mess lol ullhair: 
Make sure your not feeding carrot her regular amount of pellets( I believe I read she was given pellets) Right now give her unlimited hay, lots of rolled oats (this helps during the time period a rabbit has diarrhea and it helps after they are recovering from it) and slowly start introducing her back to her pellets, you don't want to have her losing weight so its better to give her more treats, to have her eating than to only feed her the 'healthy' stuff and have her lose weight. 
I would feed veggies just be careful with my rabbits I know it upsets there stomachs and actually causes diarrhea hence why I do not feed my rabbits veggies. 
**Lots of water is key. Make sure there is always a fresh water source available for your bun, you want to make sure she doesn't get dehydrated.


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## MILU (Aug 28, 2013)

She has lots of water available, she refuses to eat hay and hasn't eaten pellets since before the diarrhea started. I haven't given carrot for days either. All she's been eating is escarole, cilantro and celery. Sometimes it's hard to make her eat.. she wants broccoli leaves, but those will give her more of a stomachache so I'm not giving.


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## RabbitGirl101 (Aug 28, 2013)

MILU said:


> She has lots of water available, she refuses to eat hay and hasn't eaten pellets since before the diarrhea started. I haven't given carrot for days either. All she's been eating is escarole, cilantro and celery. Sometimes it's hard to make her eat.. she wants broccoli leaves, but those will give her more of a stomachache so I'm not giving.



Alright thats good, like I stated before pellets aren't really good for her at this time they are very rich, and a rabbit gets a lot of nutrients from the pellets. It might be too much for her. Try to give her more treats (ones you know wont upset her stomach) Try cheerios and put that in her food dish, the rolled oats my rabbits picture as a treat not something that could potentially save their lives. I know my rabbits adore mint and parsley. I feed them a mint conditioner and that is higher in fat (hence why its only a treat) but you can't purchase that in any store you have to go to a cage dealer. Maybe you could put her hay in a toy I have some rabbits that refuse to eat hay unless its in a toy and they are very healthy rabbits (just stubborn) 
My vet also recommended feeding vanilla pediasure to one of my rabbits that wasn't eating and was loosing weight rapidly. I had to syringe feed it but I saved the rabbits life, as he started moving around more, he started gaining weight again and he began to go to the bathroom regularly. I also keep that on hand for my rabbits. Do you know if she is drinking the water? If not maybe you could offer it on your fingers. A rabbit recovering from something needs water the most.

Also make sure to watch her, when there immune system weakens a parasite that all rabbits are born with can attack the kidneys and work its way up to the brain, put cyst on the brain and cause wry neck, that happen to me, thats when I had to get the vanilla pediasure, the poor rabbit couldnt even move he could only lie down in one spot. (Benny is doing great today and has recovered tremendously we are going to be taking him in for his final check up soon!) 

The reason Benny got wry neck is because his immune system was weakened when he got bloat from being weaned from his mother (too much stress for him) Thats why I'm kind of warning you to keep an eye out for that because I almost lost my Benny Boy (Now we are keeping him as a pet because my dad thinks he is a funny bunny, because the wry neck affected his balance and now he runs in circles when he is excited, it is very cute to watch)

Good luck with Carrot! Keep us updated on how she is doing!


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## MILU (Aug 28, 2013)

Carrot won't eat hay in any way.. we don't have cheerios (are they crackers?) or pediasure here. 
Again, I called the vet (and this is the GOOD vet, best I've ever found) and he said he'd come today but hasn't yet shown up. It's 9:10 p.m. I can't even take a shower thinking maybe he'll come right when I'm there. 
Carrot has been ok, eating veggies. I cut some yellow pimentos for myself and she smelled my fingers and wanted to bite them, got crazy about it! I gave her some small pieces of raw pimentos and she liked them. Is it ok to give more??? I didn't even know bunnies could eat them. She wants broccoli leaves too but they'll bloat her..  

I don't know how to really "keep an eye" on Carrot if no vet can ask for exams to diagnose, or to treat her right. She seems to be doing good today, I'm glad, but at this point I believe maybe prayers are what's keeping her going so well. 
Thank you all for your support and prayers!


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## MILU (Aug 28, 2013)

Hey wait - is this what pediasure is? For kids? 
http://www.netfarma.com.br/produto/11232/suplemento-alimentar-pediasure-chocolate


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## JBun (Aug 28, 2013)

She seems to be doing well enough right now. Her poop is looking more normal and she's wanting to eat some. She may have managed to pull through it, and is hopefully recovering now. If the vet doesn't show up tonight, I don't know what good it is going to do to continue antibiotics, as stopping and starting them isn't really helpful at all. You may just want to focus on getting her eating back to normal. Is she eating pellets on her own at all? Though hay would be the best thing, there's only so much you can do when she won't eat it. 

One thing, you may not want to vary her veggies too much right now. Better to feed her more of just a few select veggies that she seems to be tolerating well. Then when she is feeling better you can gradually add in other veggies one at a time and starting with a small amount at first, keeping an eye out for it causing any soft poop or digestive upset. If it doesn't after a few days, then you can gradually start increasing the amounts, and then try a new veggie after several days of her doing well with the first veggie. But for now you don't want to be introducing anything new while she is having digestive problems, especially anything with extra sugars and carbs. Definitely avoid anything sugary or starchy for a while. Pediasure would add a lot of sugar into an already ill rabbit, not to mention that it also has dairy which rabbits can't digest. It's not something I would recommend giving to her. If you are giving her that probiotic, it already has added vitamins and nutrients in it.

I'm really glad to see that she has hung in there and appears to be on the mend. You've done such a great thing trying to help these little rabbits.


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## Maureen Las (Aug 28, 2013)

Rabbits can have PEDIALYTE which is an electrolyte drink for children. The fruit flavors do have some sugar in it but it has never caused issues with my rabbits. Pedialyte is a clear liquid which has no dairy


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## MILU (Aug 29, 2013)

YOU GOT NO IDEA WHAT HAPPENED - SHE'S HAD BABIES!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY'RE FINE, SHE IS TOO! Pooping and eating and - lots of issues with people here, and I mean LOTS of issues because of that... but if you ask ME, THIS IS THE HAPPIEST AND THE MOST BLESSED DAY OF MY LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!
LONG LIFE TO CARROT AND THE BABIES!!!!!!!!!!!


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## MILU (Aug 29, 2013)

She's eating like a lion, ate everything I bought for her already! Even carrot tops again, but not pellets yet. I didn't give that probiotic yet, I guess it's a good idea to give it now?


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## MILU (Aug 29, 2013)

* We don't have pedialite here. I'm in Brazil...


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## jemm (Aug 29, 2013)

What! I am so glad carrot is ok, I think we would all like to see some pictures :biggrin2: hey grandma, really pleased its all worked out ok,


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## MILU (Aug 29, 2013)

THANK YOU! At this point I ask myself if that was the blood in the urine and droppings.. if she actually is sick or not.. there's evidence saying yes, but I'd like to think she isn't! ray:
She's drunk lots of water I gave to her with a syringe :bunnynurse:
Question - is it normal for a bunny to "abandon" the nest? I mean, she's stayed in her "bathroom" 'cause she was bleeding, after that she went to her usual place, not to the nest.. I'd think she'd want to stay with the babies? I can go really close to the nest and she won't even care! I thought that'd make her go there and check the babies out.
By the way, the babies are alreasy "walking"!!! I saw some movement, one almost came out of the fur!!! :O I hope he/she doesn't, he/she might fall from the cage (transport box).
I even heard them making noises!!! AWWWWW
OMG THIS IS MAGICAL!!!


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## JBun (Aug 29, 2013)

Congratulations!!! I bet that was quite the surprise. A good one too. 

She definitely was sick. Just the diarrhea alone indicates that there was something wrong, even if there was no blood in the urine or feces. But since there isn't any more diarrhea, she may be fine now. A lot of what indicates something is wrong with a rabbit and that it may be sick, is if it's behavior changes, eating changes, and the state of it's droppings. How is she acting now? Is her behavior normal? So is she only eating veggies now? Is there any particular reason she isn't eating pellets, or is she being offered them and just won't eat them? Now that she has babies she's really going to need that extra nutrition from the pellets. Usually after they've had babies, you want to gradually start increasing their pellet amount, so that in couple of weeks you are feeding close to 3 times the normal amount. So if she is choosing not to eat pellets I'm really wondering why. You can't make up for no pellets or hay in the diet, just by feeding veggies. Eating both things with the veggies, would be the best thing for her, but she at least needs to be eating one of those things, preferably at least some pellets now that she has the babies.

Mom rabbits don't hang out in the nest or with their babies. Usually all they do is, once or twice a day, usually in the early morning or late evening, they will hop in the nest box and feed them, then leave them alone the rest of the time. They can be really squirmy and scoot around pretty good even though they can't see yet, so it's a good idea to have the nest in some sort of nest box. A cardboard box or small bin of some kind will work with sides high enough to keep babies in, but low enough for mom to hop in. You want a little hollow towards the back that the babies nestle into and a pile of moms fur they can dig down into when they are cold. You just want it big enough for mom to hop in to feed with out stepping on the babies, but small enough that the babies stay pretty nestled together and don't squirm away and get separated and cold. You also want to look in the nest and check for any dead babies, and pick up the babies each day and check them over. You want to check their bellies for fat tummies and a little white spot that is the milk and shows that mom is feeding them. She may not feed them until tonight or the morning. 

At around 11 days old they will start opening their eyes, then not long after, start venturing out of the nest box. Once that happens, you can remove the next box, or clean it out and turn it on its side and put a clean pile of hay for them to snuggle on. 

Lots of luck with mom and the babies! I'm sure you'll love the experience. Little baby bunnies are so much fun to help raise


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## MILU (Aug 29, 2013)

Thank you for the info. Carrot (aka Thalulah) has been at her usual place, I'm relieved to know that's normal. I could hear the babies last night, they made some noise, and one was even "walking", I could almost see him/her in the middle of all the fur, wanted to come out!! haha. 
Carrot made her nest inside a cage (transport box), so the babies are kept warm and together. 


I've heard our scent might make the mother abandon the babies, so I'm not sure I should put my hand inside the transport box (nest) to check them. Isn't it better to let her do the job checking them (?) What if I cause her to abandon them 'cause I touched them, or my scent is there somehow? And it'll be really hard to see them, they're at the bottom of the box. But I'll follow your advice, if you think I should do it, I will.


Carrot seems drained, she passed LOTS of blood. I offered pellets yesterday (I figured she'd need them) she didn't want them, she hasn't wanted them or hay since she got sick. 
I figure that probiotic with vitamins can be helpful now, but I'm afraid of how much to give. Would you have any guesses? I'm SO afraid of making a mistake...!


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## Maureen Las (Aug 29, 2013)

I am also shocked that she gave birth . The pregnancy was not normal as these issues do not occur in a normal pregnancy ..passing a lot of blood is not normal . Did she eat the placentas? 

I would not give her the probiotic that you bought as I know nothing about it and it seems more like a vitamin supplement than a probiotic. You want a probiotic with the microorganism lactobacillus casei included.
I am hoping that you can get some help from the folks who have had newborn litters to care for and if you don't get it here I will move the thread to the Rabbitry or try to have it going in both forums. 

It is fine to handle the babies . 


http://www.rabbit.org/care/babies.html


I believe that there is so much going on here it is actually difficult for us to help you with clear and definite directions . I guess that we are all doing the best that we can ray:


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## RabbitGirl101 (Aug 29, 2013)

MILU said:


> Thank you for the info. Carrot (aka Thalulah) has been at her usual place, I'm relieved to know that's normal. I could hear the babies last night, they made some noise, and one was even "walking", I could almost see him/her in the middle of all the fur, wanted to come out!! haha.
> Carrot made her nest inside a cage (transport box), so the babies are kept warm and together.
> 
> 
> ...



Nope the mother rabbit won't mind if you touch them(thats birds). I handle my kits from the time they are 15 minutes old to the time they are 8 weeks old going to their new home. I like my rabbits to personable and loving. I do not breed mean or skittish rabbits into my herd , especially with a doe, because I feel like the temperaments pass from the parents, and especially the mother!

What I do is I take a basket and I put a towel on the bottom and I put that to the side. then I pet the mother letting her know its ok and I'm not going to hurt her babies she may get in your face about what your doing but thats ok. Then i like to take the fur off the top and put the kits in the basket. This is a good way to make sure there are no dead kits in the nestbox, if there is a dead kit it will be cold and this can make the other kits cold. For the first 2 weeks(or until they open there eyes which will happen around 10-14 days) I keep them in the basket a keep them away from mom for 5-30 minutes (with the newborns handle them less they are going to be drained of energy. Once they open there eyes I convert my carrier to a laundry basket with a sheet and maybe a towel in it, thats how I carry them up to 6 weeks when they are ready to be weaned and put in the new cages. When weaning make sure you know the sex of the kits. For the first week I put 2 doe's together and 2 bucks together. If you have an uneven amount of kits I put two together in a separate cage and the last one stay with mom a little longer and then is fully weaned. Make sure to watch them in this stage they can get depressed from being taken away from their momma.(keep and extra eye on the ones that are super attached to mom) 

Also make sure you get rid of any dead kits. In one of my litters I missed a dead kit and the mother rabbit smelt it and dug it out of her box taking some of her alive kits with it. Lucky it was before we got or A/C in and the barn was warm. We were very lucky that we were able to save the litter most kits that are out of the nestbox get chilled and will die fairly quickly if its cold enough. 


With carrot it is important to let her settle down. Think of a human giving birth, it takes a lot out of them including their appetite. Slowly start introducing the feed back, eventually your going to want to give her a big bowl full of pellets because the babies will be eating them in addition to carrot. No veggies for the babies this *Will* make the babies sick they really shouldn't have any veggies or treats under the age of 6 months. Treats that are ok, are cheerios and rolled oats(very little maybe a tablespoon). No yoggies, or apples, that can make them sick and get diarrhea.

Also did Carrot eat the placenta? If she ate it, the placenta gives extra nutrients in the milk that are really important. If she didn't the babies just won't get the extra nutrients. I Have had 1-2 doe's that don't eat there placenta and they have raised a litter of 5 with no problems. 

You really shouldnt give her any medicine, the medicine will go right into her milk which will give the kits the medication. I would not recommend giving it to them. 

Goodluck! Raising kits are tons of fun. Its a joy to see them from the time they look like tiny pigs to the time they are ready to go to their new homes! (It's even better when you get updates on how the bun is doing it makes your whole day! ) If you have anymore questions feel free to ask, I will try to answer them to the best of my ability or I will ask some of my breeder friends and I will get back to you!


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## RabbitGirl101 (Aug 29, 2013)

Oh the nestbox should stay in until they are 2-3weeks old. Make sure the box they are in is something solid. Another important thing to check into is the floor you want a cushiony surface on the bottom on the box. I was told by multiple people that being on a hard surface as a baby can cause cow hocks, which is when the feet aren't parallel to each other it means they turn out, it cause from being on a hard surface for so long while they were developing.


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## jemm (Aug 30, 2013)

Photos!!!!


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## nora123 (Aug 30, 2013)

I would syringe feed her liquidised pellets and luke warm water to keep her hydrated and if she will eat it offer her hay I would take away all her veg and until you get her gut back on track just feed her hay and limited pellets once she is eating.The veg could be causing the diarhoea especially if she is under six months of age look up barbi browns rabbitry for diarhoea for immediate information she is really good. good luck hope she is ok. Then I would leave it a couple of weeks and if you want to feed her veg only feed one veg at a time and in small quantities to make sure it does not give her diarohea. and if thats ok add another a bit at a time but for the time being I would only feed hay and pellets.


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## nora123 (Aug 30, 2013)

Sorry my mistake I think if she is under six months of age she should have access to unlimited pellets but not sure what age you need to cut them back maybe other members can comment on this.


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## RabbitGirl101 (Aug 30, 2013)

nora123 said:


> Sorry my mistake I think if she is under six months of age she should have access to unlimited pellets but not sure what age you need to cut them back maybe other members can comment on this.



At 6 months you start cutting back and you can also start introducing veggies to them. Rule of thumb 1 oz of pellets per pound of rabbit. My 4 pound hollands get 1/2 a cup I have to adjust that to each rabbit because not all of them are 4 pounds. 
If you feed veggies you will also have to cut back on pellets because then they are getting to many calories a day and they will get fat.


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## MILU (Aug 30, 2013)

Thank you for all the info and for all your efforts to help!! You're all AMAZING! 

I did give some pellet slurry in a syringe, she didn't want to eat pellets or hay or anything but took some (a little bit) of slurry. I was worried 'cause she only passed blood (thick stuff, is that what placenta is?) she ate a little bit of that thick blood, but not all. She didn't poop yesterday while she was here (until 9:20 p.m.). 

The babies seemed to be all fine, "tweeting" and moving a lot, really cute. I didn't get to see them though before they were taken. Yes, I got to get them taken by the people from the group. It was a bit of a fight... but hopefully she went to a place where someone will be able to help her better than me. 
I know nothing about bunny maternity, don't even know what the placenta is.. 
I care about her and have LOTS of love to give. Those people know hat they're doing, have been through lots of bunny pregnancies, although they don't seem to care like I do. All I know is Carrot needed someone who at least knows a vet who'll show up... I wouldn't know what to feed the babies (if needed) etc.. My heart is shattered, I wish I could keep them.. but sometimes loving means letting them go I guess....... (tears in my eyes).. 

Thank you ALL for your amazing directions, you helped me keep her alive and well! Despite the fact that she didn't poop, she was ok when she left.

* Info I got after she left was there were 9 babies, she nursed them and they're all ok.

THANK YOU ALL AGAIN, YOUR HELP HAS ALWAYS BEEN PRICELESS!


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## RabbitGirl101 (Aug 30, 2013)

I'm sorry they took Carrot(was she a foster?) I'm sure they will give carrot and the babies a good home! 

Wow! 9? Thats a huge litter especially since she was a dwarf rabbit (I thought she was a Holland lop to me)


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## nora123 (Aug 30, 2013)

Hi I Looked on barbi browns web site she says if rabbit has diarhoa to feed oatmeal like old fashioned quaker oats these must stop the diarhoea hope this helps.


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## Maureen Las (Aug 30, 2013)

I am wondering what type of group took her???


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## MILU (Aug 30, 2013)

I gave her to the same person who gave me her, and one more girl from the group (group that rescues bunnies, I fostered bunnies -including Carrot- for them).
I tried to give her oats but she didn't want them. 

I don't know her breed, but I could kind of guess 9..  although she's a PRETTY small bunny!! I thought she was a baby when she was given to me! No wonder she doubled her size fast.. 

And I could tell something was "weird", she was skin and bones, very very bony (POOR RABBIT!) but had a large bloated belly. I thought it was either worms, a huge weird tumor or babies.. but I "knew" they were babies when I massaged her belly, I knew it!!!! There was NO WAY it could be anything else! I didn't know that (even when I knew it) only 'cause some people here misdirected me and lied to me. And I guess it was intentional.. I don't know. I prefer to pretend they made "mistakes", I don't want to think people can be mean like that.

THANK GOD you guys from RO have been there for me and giving the right directions!


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## MILU (Aug 30, 2013)

These are the babies!! (you can't actually see them) :hearts:hearts:
:birthday


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## MILU (Aug 30, 2013)

This is Carrot after she gave birth - exhausted but VERY VERY HAPPY AND RADIANT!!!! :yes::goodjob:inlove:


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## kirbyultra (Aug 30, 2013)

You've had such an exciting day! I am glad the rescue took her back to take better care of her and the babies. How unexpected!!! I just read the whole thread now and the outcome is amazing. Hope she doesn't have anymore diarrheal issues.


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## jemm (Aug 30, 2013)

Well done brazil carrot and Milu I am glad it all came good in the end :nod:hugsquish:arty0002::nod:bunnyheart:thumbup:dancingorig: let's hopeCarrot and the kits have a long a great life . I have really enjoyed reading your posts over the last few days well done again


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## MILU (Aug 30, 2013)

Thank you! 
I've read that 5 of her babies are black and 4 are pink 
The person who's with her is a vet, so hopefully she'll have some decent assistance now.. I was worried but I think she'll be ok now


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## Maureen Las (Aug 30, 2013)

I hope that you can keep us up-dated on how she and the kits are doing ..and also maybe you can get a night's sleep now...you have been through a lot also !!!!


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## MILU (Sep 22, 2013)

Thank you, Angieluv! 

They took some pics of the babies, I'm posting them below. All the 9 were all ok for some time (at least they told me so) but then the other day they said 4 of them died. :no: :sad:

I don't know why they died. According to them, it's rare to have all bunnies being born alive and then surviving. It seems like Carrot is ok, the other ones too. At least I hope so. They're in another city. 

Pics of the babies :hearts:
I just saw them through pics.. but aren't they beautiful?!

Babies in the nest!! :hearts:







Babies at probably 2-3 daus old :hearts:


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