# GI Stasis / Bloat HELP!



## mshill90 (Dec 19, 2012)

I have an 11 week old Flemish Doe that appears to have GI Stasis/Bloat. This is a kit that I produced, and then sold it to a friend of mine 2 weeks ago along with a male sibling. 

I forgot to give her food of what I was feeding for transition- I was feeding Manna Gro- my friend was feeding Blue Seal Hutch 18(?) for kits. 

She has been free feeding, and they have unlimited amount of horse hay (I don't know what it is comprised of)

Jasper the male is completely fine and acting like himself, pooping with no issues at all; no swollen tummy etc etc.. 

Alice the female has a bloated belly.. feels like a balloon that isn't filled the whole way but doesn't have much squish to it. It's definitely not normal- but the hardness comes and goes. 

My friend tried a few things... She was doing bounce back for electrolytes, keeping straw and hay a constant, as well as fresh water in a BOWL. She was also doing tummy massages. She wouldn't eat anything that was tried nor would she even drink on her own. She tried kao pectillin to help with the gas build up toxicity yesterday, as well as a small laxative dosage today. 


I told her that since I have a bit more resources available to me (she lives in the country with no transportation) that I would come get her and see what I could do, as I didn't think it was bloat, but more so GI Stasis; even though I do know they follow one another. 

When I arrived she had 1 normal looking poop drop, and then a jelly like mush ball. She is urinating like normal.

Got her home, and set her up on the couch with towels, blankets, and a heating pad with some fresh timothy hay and fresh water in a bowl. My friend said she would not lay on the heating pad for her, but she laid on it for me with no problems and would just move when she was too warm. 

Here is what I have on hand at the moment: 

Infant Gas Drops
Metacam
Oats
FRESH Timothy Hay AND Alfalfa hay (2 separate bales)
Canned pumpkin
Acidophalus tablets
Fresh Escarole
Fresh Carrots (haven't used them)
Strawberry Yogurt
Pedialyte


I have gotten her to drink water on her own, and she's been drinking as much as a normal rabbit does. She is also adamant about eating the escarole here and there. I read pumpkin would help get things moving, so I made a pureed pumpkin slurry with crushed acidophalus tabs and syringed it to her... she didn't like it but ate it anyways. I did give her some metacam just in case of pain/discomfort... And I have been giving her pedialyte syringed as well. 

She sprawls out like she's comfortable (just like my boys do when they are super relaxed), and she doesn't have any labored breathing, and there is minimal to no stomach noise/slosh/gurgles. 

She is alert, bright eyed, and she is very adamant about cleaning herself. 

She is moderately active in spurts. 

I have been using an electric toothbrush for stomach massaging which makes her stomach softer, but once it stops it gets less soft. 

Any ideas? 

The only rabbit savy vet in my moderate area is out for the holidays; so I'm on my own to do my best.


----------



## JBun (Dec 19, 2012)

If it truly is bloat, then she needs to go to a vet immediately! There's virtually nothing you can do at home to help in a case of bloat. In fact tummy massages can actually cause damage and shouldn' be done if it really is bloat. A vet has the best chance of helping save the rabbit if this is what it really has.

If the stomach isn't extremely swollen and hard, and you think it is more likely stasis and gas, I would give the simethicone gas drops(1-2cc every hour for 3 hours, then 1cc every 3-8 hr.) and metacam to get the gas and pain under control. Have the timothy hay always available to her. Keep up with the water. If you can grind up some timothy or use the fines from it to make some sort of hay slurry, and get her to eat it, that would be the best thing for her. If that won't work then keep up with the pumpkin. I would say to make a pellet slurry, but the pellets probably caused the problem in the first place, so I don't think that is an option in this case. I'm not sure about the probiotic tablets. In some cases it can be good, but I've also found that sometimes it has caused a gut slowdown with some of my rabbits, and that isn't something you want with a stasis problem. I've found fresh leafy greens like green leaf lettuce, cilantro, and parsley, to be helpful. Let her run around and get some exercise, that will help get the gut moving, and keep up with the tummy massages. Getting the gas and pain under control, and keeping her well hydrated are essential.


----------



## mshill90 (Dec 19, 2012)

Well like I said there are no rabbit vets available in my area. I don't think it's bloat because she's not completely hard. There is still some give to her stomach at this point. 

I'm not sure how to go about grinding up the hay as its really fresh but I'll try somehow cuz she won't eat it at all. 

I offered her some pellets but she refused. I also didnt think it would be good for her at this point anyways. 

I only added a bit of acidophilus to the pumpkin just in case it would help but theres no way of knowing if its helped at all. 

I did just check her bum and we have poop!!! It's not diahrea and its not jelly like either. It's brown and mushy like baby poop and it smells like baby poop too! I know diahrea can be fatal so I'm keeping a close eye on her and making sure she has plenty of water. 

But I assume that the presence of feces is a little closer to being good right?


----------



## JBun (Dec 19, 2012)

Any poop is good when they haven't been pooping. Just keep an eye on it.


----------



## GeorgiaGirl322 (Dec 19, 2012)

I recently just dealt with a case of bloat. IThis is what worked for me 
1cc of gas drops every hour for the first three hours and then 1cc every 4-6 hours there after. I also took a syringe and administered yougurt. I used strawberry-banana flavored.
The biggest thing is to give back "good bacteria" and keep bun hydrated. This seemed to work for me. If he/she is eating, give smaller than usual feedings. Other than this, it seems like youre right on Target with her. I noticed change in my bun within two to three days. Also, allow her out to run and encourage her by tapping and "tickling" her rear. movement and activity will be a huge help.


----------



## Imbrium (Dec 20, 2012)

I wouldn't give yogurt, since they're lactose intolerant - the Acidophalus tablets are a better option for restoring digestive balance.

if you have a food processor, that might work to chop up the hay into tiny pieces... you could mix a little watered-down (using water or pedialyte) pumpkin with it to help the bits stick together and make it syringeable.

as others have said, keep up with the simethicone (1-2cc every hour for 3 hours, then 1cc every 3-8 hr) and metacam, and try to get her to exercise/hop around a good bit. if you've got food going into her, at least some poop coming out and are medicating for pain and gas, she should start to improve at some point.


----------



## mshill90 (Dec 20, 2012)

Ok, so a little update here for you guys helping me.. 

Got up this morning, and she was still alert and all that good stuff that we want. No heavy eyes, labored breathing etc.. 

She still prefers to sprawl out, as opposed to sitting hunched up. I left her a bowl of greens last night but she didn't eat any of it. However, her but was covered in baby like mush poo this morning, so I felt that was better than nothing coming out. And she is urinating like normal. 

Today I have the bottom of a cat carrier with a towel in it, then a heating pad, with another towel on top of it. The pad has 4 settings on it, and I have been playing with setting 2 and 3. She seems to enjoy laying on 3. Also in the box is some timothy/alfalfa hay as well as the vibrating massage machine. She comes over and lays beside the massager so her belly is on it, and eats the hay here and there. Yesterday she wouldn't touch it. She also tried digging the towel and biting/moving it, so that seems a bit uplifting. 

When she is not laying in that box, she lays in front of a mini fan I have blowing and just watches everything going on around her. 

I gave her more metacam today, the gas drops, and the pumpkin with acidophalus. I have not given her any yogurt and I am not going to at this point. She has no problems with the pedialyte so that's the most hassle-less thing about her right now. 

I did some reading and heard a lot of people use pineapple juice (with no added sugar) and they see results within a few hours. Well, I had to go to the store anyways, so I grabbed some pineapple juice and gave it a shot. I would say in about an hour after giving her some of the juice I noticed she had a bowel movement.. It was a jelly/liquid like poop about the size of a 50 cent piece, BUT her stomach was a bit less bloated and had some give to it. 

I ordered a lb of critical care online today, but I won't get it until after xmas. :nerves1 So let's hope she hangs in there and gets a little better in the mean time. If I had known about critical care before hand, I would have ordered it 2 days ago when I first learned of her condition. 

Another thing! When she wants to go somewhere, she runs.. she doesn't walk, or hop. She takes off and seems to somewhat enjoy herself as I notice a few binks here and there. At least she's in good spirits noting her situation.


----------



## Imbrium (Dec 21, 2012)

did you buy pineapple juice that was canned or did you get pineapple and make fresh juice? the fresh stuff has enzymes in it that can potentially aid digestion, but the canning process denatures them so canned juice won't actually have any effect 

I'm glad she seems to be improving a little - I hope that continues!


----------



## mshill90 (Dec 21, 2012)

Well Alice has made some fantastic improvement over night. 

For the majority of the day yesterday I just let her do her thing. I wanted her to be as stress free as possible. She didn't really want to eat anything, so I didn't force foods, only meds and liquids. She nibbled on some hay, but that didn't last long. 

She spent of her day laying either on the heating pad, or in front of the fan. I did allow one of my rabbits (her sister) to come interact with her, but she could have cared less. 

Well, at night, I put her in a plastic tote covering the top half way with a towel because I don't keep extra rabbit cages/hutches on hand. So last night she's laying by the fan and I go to shoo her out into the open part of the livingroom and there is the biggest poop I've ever seen from something her size. It was the size of a cat poop. It wasn't runny/jelly like at all, just rather mushy and olive green, but I could see hay in it. And stinky of course. 

Woke up this morning, and there was more of the same type of poop in her tote, and her belly is a LOT more squishy than it has been although she's still rather bloated looking/feeling. 

And to answer the pineapple juice question, yes, I DID use canned pineapple juice (no additives/preservatives) and it wasn't until AFTER I gave her some that she started having any type of more frequent pooping. I read it was the acidity in the juice that interacted with stomach bacteria that makes things start moving.. all I know is that it seems to have worked, and I couldn't be happier. 

:toast:


----------



## Imbrium (Dec 21, 2012)

that's wonderful news! gross as it may have been, there's no better sight to a bunny owner than poops from a bunny that's been sick!


----------



## mshill90 (Dec 22, 2012)

She's been pooping (not regular poops yet).. it varies but seems to be a mushy brown color... however, her bloating is still there. 
*
I assume things are moving around cuz of the poop, but does the bloating last for a bit once things start moving back to normal because the GI tract is still recovering and trying to get back to normal?  Yesterday before the poop, she was soooo big and her stomach felt like a balloon with no more room for expansion; I was not expecting her to make it through the night. Today it's definitely better, as there is "squish" to it.*

She is a lot more active. She was confined today because I was gone, but tomorrow I'm clearing out my kitchen so she can run around and I don't have to worry about if she dribbles poo anywhere cuz I can wipe it up. 

Haven't been able to get her to eat anything but greens for the most part. She showed SOME interest in some mashed up cooked apple, but promptly stuck her nose up at it like she knew it was another attempt to get her system moving. She's irritated at me, and I don't blame her.


----------



## JBun (Dec 22, 2012)

If she still seems bloated, then you probably want to keep up with the simethicone and metacam, to keep the pain and gas under control. Try and avoid giving her sugary things as much as possible as it will just contribute to the gut imbalance and gas buildup. Since she is eating leafy greens, then just keep giving her those. I wouldn't give too much of a variety and would stick with ones that seem to be the easiest on the stomach, like green leaf lettuce, cilantro, and parsley. And really try not to introduce anything else new, as it may just keep causing a problem. If she'll eat plenty of greens, then maybe even eliminate the pumpkin. But if she's not eating enough of the greens, then pumpkin is really all you have that you can force feed her, right? I would just stick with those few things and not introduce any other foods, and avoid sugars and carbs as much as possible. Fiber and moisture are the best things to get the gut moving again. An antibiotic might help get the bacteria under control, but I'm not certain about that or even what kind would be best to use. The probiotics might help get the bloating under control by restoring some sort of balance to her gut bacteria, and avoiding sugars, carbs, and new foods, will help keep the imbalance from getting worse, hopefully.

That's good that she's pooping. I didn't think she would survive the bloat myself, as it seems to be a pretty fatal condition. It's pretty amazing she's doing so well.


----------



## mshill90 (Dec 22, 2012)

Still giving her the gas drops, but didn't give her the metacam today as her bloating has gone done a TON and she's looking so much better. She does tire out easily, but noting what she's been through I am sure that's completely normal at this stage. 

I cleared out the kitchen so she can run around a bit, but she's being rather reserved at this point, which I would call normal because of the stress. 

She did poop, and it was ALMOST normal. It was soft, black, and shiny pellets that clumped together. Who thought that poop could make someone so happy?! haha. 

But like I said, her bloating has gone down quite a bit, but unfortunately, I can see how much body mass she has lost. 

Her current diet is greens (escarole), timothy and alfalfa hay, carrot pieces, and timothy hay pellets. I introduced the pellets (Manna Sho) 2 days ago because she wasn't eating the hay and I knew she needed to eat something hay related.. but she never touched them, but I left them in her pen anyways just in case. Last night I accidentally dropped a baby carrot within her reach and she started eating it. So I gave her some of them because she didn't eat anything at all yesterday for the most part. Then this morning when I woke up, she was happy as ever munching on some of the pellets. 

She lays directly on her stomach and sprawls out and just likes the watch what goes on around her. And if she's roaming the livingroom and is ready for a nap, she either goes to her heat pad in the cat carrier, or she will curl up with my cat if she can find him. If the dog is laying out, she will lay with him sometimes as well. 

I've read that should she recover, there's a chance she can get this again, so my friend and I decided that I will keep her because she was going to be for breeding purposes for my friend, and I've also read that GI/Bloat survivors shouldn't be bred because of organ damage sustained. 

Once my vet comes back from vacation I am taking her in to make sure she's back on the mend and in the clear for sure. 

Thank gosh I have some self veterinary experience from hanging out with my vet at her office as she enjoys company! -and the vet tech classes.


----------



## JBun (Dec 22, 2012)

I know! When you've had a sick rabbit, there's nothing better than seeing them poop, lol. That's great that she's eating! Is it just a plain hay pellet that she is eating now, or a rabbit food pellet? Your research about the possibility of this happening again is pretty accurate in my experience. I got a new buck this summer that had no previous digestive issues, then the stress of being in a new place caused him to develop GI stasis. It took about 2 weeks before he was better and I wasn't having to hand feed him any more. But he developed stasis 2 more times after that. It seemed to be related to his rabbit food. I was feeding him limited alfalfa rabbit pellets, no treats, leafy greens, and I was trying to get him to eat timothy hay, but I don't think he ever got hay before, as he would barely eat any of it no matter what I did to try and encourage him. So after the last bout of stasis was starting to clear up, I was still hand feeding critical care and he was eating greens, but he would only eat small amounts of hay. I needed to take him off rabbit food but he wouldn't eat hay, so I needed some way to feed him. So I picked up some plain timothy/alfalfa hay feed pellets, and luckily my rabbit would eat them. Since I took him off the rabbit food, he hasn't gotten sick since, but as a result of the repeated stasis bouts, I think his digestive system was damaged because where before the stasis happened, his poops were normal, and now they look like ones from a rabbit with megacolon. He's doing really well now. Because his poops were irregular, I tried gradually introducing probiotics to him. I started with small amounts and worked up to a gram a day for several weeks. Though it didn't fix his poops completely, they are much better now and more regular in size. He was on a hay pellet and greens, only diet for several months, and now that he's doing well, I got a different rabbit pellet, and I'm very very slowly introducing them to him, like over a months time. He seems to be doing ok so far. 

I'm glad you decided to keep her. She's going to need someone experienced to care for her. If you are concerned about this reoccuring, you will probably want to control her diet very carefully. Poor girl. She sounds like she's doing so much better though. That's so cute that she likes your other pets and will snuggle with them


----------



## mshill90 (Dec 23, 2012)

It's a rabbit food pellet.. Manna Sho. When I originally had her, she was on Manna and doing fine. When I sold her to my friend, I forgot to bring food for transition, but I assumed my friend would slowly introduce her brand of pellets and she would be fine, but she didn't. She just free fed straight away. She only feeds horse hay, which I think is orchard grass, but I am not really sure it's course enough because it seems like a really soft type hay. I only feed timothy and alfalfa. I get it locally down the street and it's nice and fresh, but dry. 

I don't think she is bloated anymore.. I think it's just the fact that she's got no mass anymore, so her stomach is more noticeable than if she was of a normal weight. She's completely squishy!!! :dancingorig:

My critical care should be here right after Xmas. I am putting together a HUGE kit of a ton of stuff in the event of any random bunny emergencies. I keep one for my dog, so I should have one for the buns too. 

I'm keeping all of this documented step by step so hopefully I can help others who may not have access to a vet or can't afford a vet because they do get costly. 

My friend said about selling her to make back some of the money that *I* spent on *HER* rabbit since my friend doesn't think she should have to pay for any of it since she can't use her anymore, but I would NEVER put anyone else in the situation of having to take care of a GI/Bloat bunny. It's hard work! So she's stuck here with me haha. 

Thank goodness we are planning a bunny room just for the girls. The boys get to live outside because they are BRATS! AND come spring time, EVERYONE is getting spayed/neutered. 

I'm so glad that Alice is recovering because I don't think I could have handled things if she would have died on me. She beat the odds, and I couldn't be happier! 

I'm still going to give her critical care when I get it in. Just worried about her weight loss now.


----------



## wendymac (Dec 23, 2012)

Glad she's doing better! Don't worry much about the weight...they tend to put that back on fairly quickly once they're feeling better. The buyer of my daughter's show pen of bunnies donated them back to her. Unfortunately they developed bloat while at the fair, so we didn't really want them back. We had them basically written off as a lost cause, but they bounced back and within a month you never would have known they were almost nothing but bones. We sold one and kept one (one had died at the fair). The one we sold went Reserve in Show for the little girl that bought him. The one we kept took BOS...a little over one month after being deathly sick. Anyway, sorry for rambling! Before long you'll never know she was ever on the thin side.


----------



## Imbrium (Dec 23, 2012)

I'm SO glad she made it through and is recovering really well!

here's the thread I started when I was making my first aid kit... final list is the last post - http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f40/need-help-building-bunny-first-aid-kit-69819/#p967590

I left off stuff I always have around for human first aid, like neosporin *without* pain reliever, gauze pads, that sort of thing. a lot of stuff (benebac, critical care, vet wrap, pedialyte, fruit flavored preservative free baby food, etc.) really came in handy after their spays when they weren't eating/drinking normally and Nala kept licking her incision.


----------



## mshill90 (Dec 24, 2012)

Welp, she didn't make it.. 

She was doing good it seemed.. had no bloating, was eating hay and carrot strips... alert and active.. drinking water.. She had even started grooming herself on her own again. 

I left the house for a few hours, and came home to her cold and stiff laying on her side. 

I was hoping she would hold out until I got the critical care in. 

I noticed a TON of pee in her pen today, like I don't even know how that much came out of her.. 

So I'm thinking it was something to do with her organs and possible damage sustained from the whole bloat ordeal. 

:bunnyangel2:


----------



## whitelop (Dec 24, 2012)

Awwww. I'm so sorry for your loss. Thats really terrible. 
Binky pain free big girl :rainbow: :hearts:


----------



## Imbrium (Dec 24, 2012)

I'm so sorry! I can't believe she passed away when she was doing so much better 

binky free, little girl! :rainbow:


----------



## JBun (Dec 24, 2012)

I'm so sorry. It was really starting to sound like she was going to pull through.


----------



## mshill90 (Dec 26, 2012)

Yeah, I thought she was going to pull through too. She was really starting to come around. 

What makes me more mad was that my Critical Care arrived yesterday morning in the mail.. 

I think if I would have gotten her and started treating her when the bloat first happened she would have made it, but I think those few days prior to me having her and being really stressed, along with my friend constantly moving her (carrying her from place to place on her back etc..) probably took a toll on her body and could have really messed something up internally. 

So here's another question.. Can over feeding also cause bloat/GI? The reason I am asking is because until she mentioned transition feeding, I had never heard of doing it.. but note, I am fairly new to rabbits.. But I got my 4 adults when they were less than 12 weeks old, and I brought them home and just fed the food I had bought with no issues at all, but they only got fed once a day. And with my kits, I've changed their feed without transition, but again only fed once a day. By feeding once a day, I mean their bowl gets filled and that's all they get for the day. They ALWAYS have fresh water no matter how many times I have to fill that daily. And they always have hay. She said she feeds with the J feeders that hold like 2 cups, and she was filling it 3 times a day for this rabbit.. 

So, am I right in thinking it may not have been the transition, but maybe just an over feeding? I feed Manna, and she feeds Blue Seal... This is like the third Flemish kit that she has had die from bloat even when she has done a transition.


----------



## whitelop (Dec 26, 2012)

They're babies so they should technically be able to have unlimited pellets, but that seems like a bit much. If she is feeding that much pelleted food, then she isn't feeding any hay. She should been feeding them more hay than anything. My baby bunny, who is like 8 weeks old and weaned much to young, gets between 1/4 and 1/2 a cup a day of pellets and as much hay as she can hold. While my bun is a dutch and your's are Flemmies, she should still only be feeling like a cup and half a day, or somewhere around there; plus all the hay that the buns can eat, plus some. 

I would suggest not selling or giving this woman any more of the kits you have. She's obviously doing something wrong and needs to read up on rabbit nutrition. Its not fair for the buns to go through so much pain for nothing. I know you did all you could to help that poor baby, but its still not fair. 
Even with the sudden transition from food to food, three rabbits with bloat is weird.


----------



## wendymac (Dec 26, 2012)

Actually, the large breeds should have unlimited pellets (Flems, Flops, etc.). The pellet is a complete feed...containing the fiber, minerals, nutrients, protein etc. that a bunny needs. Especially those under 6 months old, because they are growing by leaps and bounds and need the feed.


----------



## JBun (Dec 26, 2012)

I think that it can really depend on the individual rabbit, on how pellets are going to affect them. I have some adult rabbits that at one time I was free feeding and the only effect was that they gained weight, no GI issues. Then I have other rabbits that if I were to free feed them pellets, they would get sick. I have one baby bunny that I was free feeding like the rest of her siblings, but she kept getting soft poops, so I reduced the pellets and it cleared up, but as soon as I tried increasing the pellet amount with her, the soft poops came back. Then I have that one rabbit that I can't feed pellets to at all because he gets stasis if I do. And some rabbits are going to handle a pellet change better than others, and some rabbits are going to get sick. I think it may also depend on how drastic a change it is from one pellet to another. Like if you are feeding one kind of pellet and change to another brand, but the ingredients are basically the same, then I would think that it would be less disruptive, digestion wise, to the rabbit. As opposed to changing to a feed with different ingredients in it than what the rabbit is currently being fed. I think that in doing a transition, it's not that every rabbit needs that adjustment period, but that you do it just in case you do get a rabbit that would get sick if you didn't transition. And then it might be that some brands of feed cause more problems putting a new rabbit onto it suddenly, than others.

So with your friend, I think it could be over feeding, transitioning to the new feed too quickly, or some other factor like feeding treats or other things that might be causing the bloat. It could be one of these things, or a variety of factors. To be loosing so many rabbits to bloat, would mean that something she is doing is causing the problem. Could also be a problem with her feed. Hopefully she'll be open to suggestions and willing to make some changes to see if it helps her rabbits have less problems.


----------

