# Savannah gave birth. HELP!



## PixieStixxxx (Apr 22, 2008)

I came home from work and went to check on the buns, only to find a litter of babies!

Five babies in total, one dead. He/she was separated from everyone else, and didn't get enough warmth.

I don't know what to know, I'm scared and freaking out. HELP HELP HELP.


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## jcottonl02 (Apr 22, 2008)

I am so sorry I have no idea about this.....I wish I could be of some help.

Maybe someone else who has that knowledge can post?

Soz bout the stupid question (lol i seriously don't know anything bout this), but did u know she was pregnant? Were u prepared?


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## Pipp (Apr 22, 2008)

Hi April, sorry I missed this! Glad you called.

Peg should be able to give you good Lionhead advice when she signs on. Hopefully she'll be a good mommy. (Savannah, not Peg). (We know Peg's a good mommy).

How is she doing? (Savannah, not Peg, but Pegtoo!) Any signs of life from the cold one?

I'm not sure what materials are goodfor a nest other thansoft hay and shredded kleenex,but they all should be well-covered.

Youprobably won't know if she's going to be a good mom untilthe first feed. I'm not sureaboutkeeping her separate from the kits for too long, I just think that given her lack of a nest,her timewith them should be supervised, but Peg may have more to say on that. 

I'm still having computer issues (and phoneissues, Ijust discovered an old message from Peg on my answering service!), Icanget on the site OR check email, but I can't do both without a lot of effort. 

I didn't realize thatRoyce was intact. Maybe hisowner might like a friend (or four) for him when she gets back. 

sas :bunnydance:


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## PixieStixxxx (Apr 22, 2008)

Yup, Royce is intact. Savannah is too b/c she wasn't healthy enough yet.. she's only 8 months old.

I'm keeping the 5th one very warm. No sign of life though =[ But body temperature isn't dropping.

Savannah's stepped on them twice... should I keep her in there over night w/o supervision - I'm not comfortable enough with that,


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## polly (Apr 22, 2008)

Hi Pixie stixx, has she pulled much fur? (sorry just woken up so not quite with it yet!) 

If not you can turn her over or hold her and gently pull some fur from her tummy. (the fur is looser on does for this reason) it will also help to expose her nipples for the babies to feed. Make sure they have almost a hole in a corner of her cage with plenty of shavings and some hay then pop the fur in the middle and hide the babies in it the body warmth of 4 will keep them lovely and warm anyways. The one thats cold how long have you been trying to warm it up? sometimes they freeze pretty quickly.

Don't stress to much about her standing on them (i know that sounds strange) but they are pretty good at moving out the way and i have seen it happen a lot with my nethies but never had one hurt.

hope that helps


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## RAL Rabbitry (Apr 22, 2008)

Polly gave you good advice. The only thing I would add is to put the babies in a shoe box or maybe a small placstic storage box of some kind to keep them together for warmth. Eight months is old enough for a doe to have a litter and she should be fine. I would say that the one that you are trying to warm up is gone. If you can't revive them after a half hour they are too far gone. She may not feed them for the first 24 hours so don't panic. 

She may not feed them for the first 24 hours which is normal. You may never see her feed them. They are pretty secretive when they go into the nestbox to feed them when they are very young. You can tell if she is feeding them because the babies will have bellies that look like ping pong balls.

Roger


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## PixieStixxxx (Apr 22, 2008)

It's been an hour since I've been trying to warm the little one up, and no luck =[

Also, he/she has a deflated tummy while the rest have full bellies.

I've moved them into a box, (she gave birth inside a couch cusion, no fur, no hay, just turn up cushion). She tried to cover them atleast.

She's ignoring them right now, Spank's really upset without his girlfriend.

About 3 1/2 weeks ago, Savannah and Spank escaped, and let Royce out. When I awoke and saw that the only two intact rabbits in my house were together, I freaked out. But because Royce was on her for about 2 seconds, I stupidly thought that it couldn't have happened.


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## polly (Apr 22, 2008)

aww don't get at yourself it happens. not your fault your busn were playing houdini!! 

Savannah will spend the majority of her time avoiding them and pretending they aren't there its to keep them safe. I would get her nest moved though. into a box like Ral said plenty of cosyness in there. maybe in her hutch? if she has a corner just lether see what you are doing with them so she is happy that they are safe and she knows where they are.

Sorry about the other kit sometimes it just happens 

will be needing pics pm me if you need me


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## SnowyShiloh (Apr 22, 2008)

PixieStixxxx, I just want to wish you well with the babies! What a shock! I hope Savannah takes good care of the remaining four and that she remains healthy. Sorry to hear about the fifth baby  

Your story serves as a good warning to me because my Tallulah is 6 months old and hasn't been spayed yet because of her health, and today we brought home an intact male. He's going to be neutered next week probably, but I will be sure to keep them far apart until 8 weeks after his neuter.

Maybe you could put Spank's cage/pen right up against Savannah's so they can be close to each other even when she's with the babies? Of course not close enough so that one of the babies could wiggle over and be bitten by him. Then you could let Spank and Savannah have a few hours together every day since the babies don't need their mother all the time.


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## TinysMom (Apr 22, 2008)

Good morning! What a wonderful thing to log into the forum to find out about - baby bunnies! In spite of the fact that it was an accident may I say .....

*CONGRATULATIONS!

*I'm really very happy for you....and I bet you'll find that your doe will do just fine. She's made it past the worst part (labor & delivery) and it sounds like she's off to a great start.

You've already had some great advice and odds are good I'll probably repeat some of it - but right now I"m still on my first cup of coffee and not "all here".


Nestbox - you definitely need a nestbox of some sort....a shoebox will work well - but you want something tall enough that the babies won't crawl away from the nest in search of mama or before they're really ready to explore (ie - before their eyes are open, etc). You can probably pull some fur from mama's tummy (or give her a good brushing and see if you get some fur that way) ... you can try to get fur from your other rabbits (some breeders save fur from when they groom to use it to supplement mama's fur if need be) - or you could use something like felt that doesn't have loose threads on it. I think flannel might be another option - I forget - I just tend to buy scraps at the Walmart fabric area and go from there...
You will want to GRADUALLY increase mama's food till she's eating maybe up to 2X what she normally eats. I might free feed her a bit for the next day or so - to see just how much she's gonna need. She may not feel like eating the first day after giving birth - or she may chow down. Don't worry if she doesn't eat the first day - she'll make up for it. You can trust me on that.
Make sure mama has LOTS of fresh water all the time....if you're going to work - make sure to check her water bottle before you leave and after you get home - she'll probably eat more than usual.
You will need to check the babies every day - to make sure they're all still alive and getting fed - especially the getting fed part. Mama will most likely feed them once or twice per day....HOWEVER....I've had some lionhead mamas that love to feed their babies more often than that. It sounds like your doe is going to be a good mama - because she tried to have the kits someplace where they would be protected and stuff (she followed her instincts really well). I'm guessing she had no idea about giving birth/making a nest, etc - so she had the first baby someplace and then realized she had to go somewhere to protect them and had the rest of her babies together. Sometimes the first baby can crawl off too if they're not in a nestbox. I'm sorry about the loss of the one...but it sounds like the others will be ok.
Don't worry now about things that are gonna come down the road like weaning - and eyes opening and stuff like that. We'll face those with you when they come. Basically - the next milestone will be when they start getting their fur (if they're part lionhead - you may see some bald spots for a few days while the rest of the fur comes in - don't let that freak you out - that is the mane gene coming showing itself). Then will be when they open their eyes. Eventually - it will be time to wean them....some folks do this at 6 weeks - I always wait for my mamas to show me when they want to wean. I have one mama still with three of her 9 week old kits....I think she's just now getting ready to let me take them from her. (I already removed five kits).
One last thing - PICTURES. We need pictures on this forum....we LOVE them. As you can - if you can - share pictures with us.....in this thread so we can follow them.
The next few weeks are going to be filled with a lot of excitement and joy. You may want to take down notes every day about the changes you see in the babies - and the things they do. One day you'll look around and realize "Oh my goodness...they're binkying already!"....

So enjoy these next few weeks....and know we're here for you every step of the way.

Oh - if she doesn't feed them (although it sounds like she IS feeding them)....let us know and we'll talk you through that - its pretty easy sometimes. I put the babies in a basket or shallow box and put treats in the box and put mama down on top of them and lightly hold her there and encourage her to eat the treats and relax in order to let her milk drop.....but from things I've had breeders tell me that work with many breeds.....lionheads often make excellent mamas and do everything on their own...

And once again - CONGRATS!

:biggrin2:


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## PixieStixxxx (Apr 22, 2008)

Thank you everyone! I nearly had an anxiety attack last night, feeling very unresponsible. I went to bed at 4:30 am, checking on them every 2 minutes =P They are so cute. Savannah growls when I check on them, and then walks away. I'm uploading pictures right now on my other computer, but the internet is down on that computer, and so I must wait.

Lionhead/Lop mixes. They were 4 spotted ones (including the one that didn't make it) and one completely pink one, who's also the runt.


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## PixieStixxxx (Apr 22, 2008)

Baby #1











Baby #2










Baby #3














Baby #4














Baby who didn't make it:






Together in the nest:






Mommy Savannah:







Edit: The first picture of Baby #3 is actually Baby #2 =P


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## aurora369 (Apr 22, 2008)

My suggestion would be to make a different nest. The couch cushion wont' be good when the babies start moving about and looking for things to nibble on.

I have a wooden nest box here that you could use. Should be the right size, for about a 3-4 pound rabbit. PM if you are interested and I'll make arrangements to bring it to you tonight. I can also check over the babies for you if you would like.

Savannah should still tend to her babies just fine in a different nest. You can take some hay and rub it on her to help it smell like her.

I have also heard of using clean cotton balls as a substitute for mom's fur.

--Dawn


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## PixieStixxxx (Apr 22, 2008)

Thanks Dawn!

I'm very interested in your nest box. I have work tonight, but I'll be home Thursday evening. Ashley may come over on Thursday evening to look at them. 

I feel so unresponsible right now, I can't believe I let this happen


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## polly (Apr 22, 2008)

Pixiestixx your best bet is still to pull the mams fur from her tummy it will come out easily you will need to do this if she hasn't pulled anyways so that the babies can get to her nipples easier!!

They are gorgeous Looks like your dead baby just got cold to quick they don't survive long outside the nest. I would be wanting to get them on some shavings or something too and like Aurora said cushion wadding is not the best for a nest! they look like they are on solid ground not insulated so get some shavings under them and some hay in there too pluck a bun and you are all sorted :biggrin2:


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## PixieStixxxx (Apr 22, 2008)

It's hard to see, but they're on shredded tissue and soft hay. I've been pulling Savannah's fur, and everyone else's fur as well to give to the babies. 

I have no experience with new borns, and was hoping that birth was something I'd never have to deal with as I care for older rabbits, not babies =[

But I really want these little guys to make it. I'd feel terrible after putting them though that and having them pass away. I'm still so heart broken over the first one who passed.


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## aurora369 (Apr 22, 2008)

I could do Thursday night after my last exam. If you want to make arrangements, send me a PM. 

I've raised a handful of litters, 3-4 for SARS about a year ago. Once they all warm in a proper nest, they should be just fine. There's not much for the human care takers to do, most of it is up to mom. As long as she's feeding them, they should be fine.

--Dawn


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## SnowyShiloh (Apr 22, 2008)

The babies are so cute!! What sweet little spots. Do you think the runt will be okay? Is it really tiny? I'm really glad to hear they made it through the night  I was looking at the picture of the nest and wondering what in the world you'd given Savannah to build with because it looks like the babies are surrounded by croutons, then I remembered about the couch cushion :biggrin2:


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## osprey (Apr 22, 2008)

Wow PixieStixxxx, what a shock that must be! I recently went through raising a litter that was rescued from a shelter (you might remember little Marilyn and her babies). The folks here are much more experienced with babies than I am, and it sounds like you are getting all kinds of good advice like I did. Since Marilyn lost her nest at the shelter, I had to build one for the babies. Based on advice from my rescue and from RO folks, I made a nest out of a soft small cat bed lined with blankets, and then lined with soft hay. I kept the babies covered with another blanket for the first 10 days or so. Another thing that helped was a SnuggleSafe, the plastic disk you warm up in the microwave to keep the babies warm. I placed one of these under the nest to keep them warm with radiant heat. Do you have access to one of those?

I am sorry that you lost one of the babies. I lost one of Marilyn's and it was very hard. Sometimes they just can't get started and they pass away while still very little. You could not have done anyting to save the baby, but it is still sad.

I free fed alfalfa pellets and alfalfa hay to Marilyn for the first few months. She was a stray, so she was underfed to begin with and she ate constantly once the babies were born. Sanannah will need lots of calories to keep up wth food production.

Good luck with your little angels. I look forward to hearing more about them.


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## tonyshuman (Apr 23, 2008)

Yikes!! What a surprise!!:shock:

Good luck to you both, and although it would be good to have Spank near Savannah so he's not so upset about not being near his girlfriend, I wouldn't let them be together until you're sure his neuter did the trick and he's not the dad (ie, make sure there are no goolies). Just a concern, in case you're not 100% sure which of your males is the dad. It sounds like your unneutered male probably is, but you never know--some surgeries don't always do what they're supposed to.


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## PixieStixxxx (Apr 23, 2008)

Spank was neutered over two years ago when he was just four months old. When Spank and Savannah first bonded, Savannah went though a false pregnancy - but just in case, I took Spank to the vet to ensure that he was correctly neutered.

I took note of the date that Royce had gotten Savannah for that mere two seconds, it was March 25. But Savannah hadn't gotten bigger, it was hardly noticable.

Spank is really depressed. I put Savannah and the babies in a cage on the floor, and Spank just sits outside the cage all day. Looking at her, and they touch noses through the bars.


I checked on the babies, the three spotted ones all had fulls bellies!. The runt is maybe about 2 cm. smaller than the rest. The three spotted ones had all gotten bigger, but the runt remained the same size, and not a big of a belly as the rest. Do I put the runt and Savannah in a separate area so that it can get milk?


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## PixieStixxxx (Apr 23, 2008)

Hey, it does look like croutons!

They have grown! Except for the runt. And the three spotted ones had ping pong bellies, and the runt didn't. So I put the runt and Savannah on my bed, and she nursed the little guy. I watched his tummy grow :inlove:


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## tonyshuman (Apr 23, 2008)

Oh, ok. I wasn't sure how long Spank had been neutered. Sounds like it really is Royce that is the dad. It probably is ok to have Spank and Savannah together, just not with the babies. I would be worried about him hurting the babies because they're not his (just my strange idea, not based on any facts)

Good luck with the babies, sounds like you and Savannah are doing a good job of keeping them all healthy! I bet they'll be CUTE when they look a little more like bunnies and less like crazy hairless aliens!!:biggrin2: I LOVE lionlops!!


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## BlueGiants (Apr 23, 2008)

It would help the runt if you give him one or two extra feedings a day. After Savannah nurses, check the little one's belly. See if he's getting pushed away from the nipples by the bigger siblings. Give him an extra feeding with momma (like you did on the bed) mid day. If he's really small, I'd let him nurse in the evening BEFORE the others. (Even if you have to remove him and Savannah and give them quiet time.)


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## LuvaBun (Apr 23, 2008)

Oh wow! What a suprise to come home to :shock:. I have to say though, they are very adorable, and Savannah looks so proud in that pic 

Looks like they are doing good, and feeding the little runt seperately will be a big help. 

Don't beat yourself up about this - accidents happen. Just enjoy being a bunny 'grandma'

Jan


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## Becca (Apr 23, 2008)

GOSH - What a lovely surprise.

I know gerbils arent rabbits but thts how i got my gerbil:
My friend bought 2 gerbils and they were "meant" to be 2 boys.
Lets just say my friend came downstairs one morning and started screaming becuase there in the cage were 6 baby gerbils!
She obviously didn't take the male gerbil out quick enough becuase a little while later there was another littler of 8 baby gerbils.
Thats how i got Pip my gerbil!


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## PixieStixxxx (Apr 23, 2008)

I'm enjoying every second of being a bunny grandma :biggrin2:

I witnessed a feeding this morning at 8 am, Savannah thought I was sleeping. I went to go check on my runt, and he had the ping pong belly! Go little guy, go!

The little guy has definately won my heart over, fighting those obstacles of his bigger siblings. My partner and I have talked things over. And we will be keeping two of the babies. The runt, and a spotted one. One of the spotted ones is protected of the runt, always covering the little guy - especially when I take a peek. So we want them together. And we're going to get these two and Savannah, when she's healthier, for one big fixing day. And hopefully bond them into one big family of the two kits, Savannah, and Spank.

Spank and Savannah had some time together last night. Spank ended up doing binkies around Savannah, and Savannah... ripped out his fur, and he just sat there and let her do it. When I first discovered the babies, Spank and come over and had lay down next to them. He was licking them, and cuddling them. What a sweet step daddy!

Royce's owner is going to take one. So that leaves just one baby with a question mark. Maybe I can convince her to take the other one too :nod


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## LuvaBun (Apr 23, 2008)

Awwww, it sounds like one big, happy family - how very cute!! LOL at Spank - he's so happy to be with Savannah, he lets her do what she likes 

I'm pleased to hear the little runty is doing OK .

Enjoy your babies!

Jan


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## PixieStixxxx (Apr 26, 2008)

Picture Updates!

Here are the babies day 5!! They're HUGE O_O. They went from being as big as my finger, to the size of my hand.


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## polly (Apr 26, 2008)

they are looking gorgeous I'm glad they are all doing so well


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## PixieStixxxx (Apr 26, 2008)

I'm so glad too! Dawn and Pipp should take credit. Dawn went out of her way to come over, lend me a great nest box, and to check the babies.

Pipp calmed me down the night they were born, guiding me as to what I should do over the phone, and it was nearly 2 am! She even offered to watch them the next day while I was at work to see if Savannah would be a good mommy.

:hug:


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## LuvaBun (Apr 26, 2008)

Oh wow, they are thriving - Savannah must be a good mom!

They look great - well done . And well done to Dawn and Pipp too 

Jan


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## SOOOSKA (May 1, 2008)

How are the babies and the Mommie doing? Oh and the Grandmother too? LOL

Susan


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## PixieStixxxx (May 8, 2008)

Grandma has calmed down 

Savannah is a very protective mommy. The babies have opened their eyes, and are coming in and out of the nest as they please. Savannah chases them back into the nest, and covers them with hay.

Here are some pictures!

Agent Orange (His nickname, since I'm not naming him =P )






Sylvia:






Smudge:






The Runt, Who would not stay still:


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## LuvaBun (May 9, 2008)

OMG how cute are those little bundles :inlove:. Smudge needs to come here . And what a good mommy Savannah is, making sure her babies are safe 

Jan


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## Spring (May 10, 2008)

AWW! I'm in love with Smudge too! He reminds me of Bruno with his half marking on his nose.. awwww! They are all so adorable!

:inlove:


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## PixieStixxxx (May 10, 2008)

I know! Smudge is just TOO cute, with his little round smushy face =P


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## juliew19673 (May 10, 2008)

OMG! Love Baby Bun Butts! A new litter that I somehow did not see the thread! Keep posting photos (they grow up so fast) and good job! Love to hear of the day to day lives of Savannah and her babies.. :inlove:


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