# Male or Female? Small and/or Large?



## kukupecpec (Dec 17, 2012)

Hello!

So I have a couple of questions for you seasoned bun owners. 
I currently have two adorable mixed breed girls that I got from the same litter as little babies. And now I'm rabbit hooked and would like to get a couple more. 

I have been researching Flemish giants for around 3 years and know that I want one. I have found a reputable breeder here in town with the color that my husband and I decided on and everything. I will for sure be getting it fixed when it's old enough. My first big question to you guys is - Male or female? Does it make a difference in their temperament male vs female if they are going to be fixed regardless? I know that female rabbit sin general tend to have those big neck/chest rolls, I don;t find that quite as appealing, so was leaning toward a male but I don't want to make a gender decision based on a physical attribute if the demeanor will suffer. 

My second question is about a buddy for the flemish. There is a rescue here in town who acquired a pregnant holland lop and I have been on her waiting list for a holland lop in need, so with new babies on the way she notified me. Can a holland lop and flemish giant be housed together? I'm unsure if the size difference would cause problems. I know not all rabbits can get along, but it seems like getting two babies is the most effortless way to bond - does this only apply to baby bunnies from the same litter? Or can pretty much any two babies be buddies? Again would size make a difference here? 
I can definitely separate them at first if needed, but I would prefer to keep them together in the long run. Also - male or female? does it make a difference for the holland lop? Will genders make a difference in bonding them?

I know it's a lot of questions but I want to make sure I do everything I can to give them a long and happy life.


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## Imbrium (Dec 17, 2012)

are your girls bonded? if not, definitely go with males so you can bond one with each of them. if they are bonded, I'd go with a M/F pair as that's the easiest pairing to bond.

pretty much any two babies can bond, but it's not 100% guaranteed that it'll last through the hormonal phase into adulthood. to safely keep two bunnies together as babies, you'd want to go with a same sex pair for obvious reasons, and same sex pairs have a much higher chance of breaking arbitrarily down the road. if you do go with a same sex pair, I'm inclined to suggest two males (even though M/M is the toughest bond) because you already have two females - that way if one or both same-sex bonds go awry at some point, you can shuffle them into M/F pairs.

as for bonding a holland lop and a flemish... it's a little weird-looking to see a teeny tiny bunny with a ginormous one, but I've heard of a flemish ending up bonded to a very small breed before. it really comes down to their personalities (which matter less if they grow up together) rather than their size.


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Dec 17, 2012)

Even after neutering, males tend to be more outgoing and friendly on the whole. Females are very individual. On the whole, I find that they are more shy and reserved, but I've had a few that were just as happy-go-lucky as the boys. That was more of the exception though.


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## kukupecpec (Dec 17, 2012)

Imbrium said:


> are your girls bonded? if not, definitely go with males so you can bond one with each of them. if they are bonded, I'd go with a M/F pair as that's the easiest pairing to bond.
> 
> pretty much any two babies can bond, but it's not 100% guaranteed that it'll last through the hormonal phase into adulthood. to safely keep two bunnies together as babies, you'd want to go with a same sex pair for obvious reasons, and same sex pairs have a much higher chance of breaking arbitrarily down the road. if you do go with a same sex pair, I'm inclined to suggest two males (even though M/M is the toughest bond) because you already have two females - that way if one or both same-sex bonds go awry at some point, you can shuffle them into M/F pairs.
> 
> as for bonding a holland lop and a flemish... it's a little weird-looking to see a teeny tiny bunny with a ginormous one, but I've heard of a flemish ending up bonded to a very small breed before. it really comes down to their personalities (which matter less if they grow up together) rather than their size.



I'm not really sure if my girls are bonded. They are still young but I've never seen them fight. The Dipsy is smaller than Bugsy and she seems to be more attached to the Bugsy than Bugsy is to her. Dipsy follows her around everywhere and hides a lot more. I like the idea of getting two males as a fail safe for down the road. You say M/M bonding is the hardest, how much does it matter when they are small? 

Just in general, do rabbits prefer to be in pairs? Or could they all bond as a group? 





OakRidgeRabbits said:


> Even after neutering, males tend to be more outgoing and friendly on the whole. Females are very individual. On the whole, I find that they are more shy and reserved, but I've had a few that were just as happy-go-lucky as the boys. That was more of the exception though.



That makes a lot of sense! Dipsy is so shy and only recently started to follow Bugsy to the door when come over to their cage. I thought maybe she was just less people friendly but it sounds like Bugsy is the strange one who seems to love to get petted and runs to the door every time I walk in the room. Bugsy is much more adventurous and curious. Dipsy will only try something if Bugsy has done it first, and in the last week Dipsy has started following Bugsy to the door and trying to sniff my fingers while I pet Bugsy when I come over to the cage.


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## Imbrium (Dec 17, 2012)

kukupecpec said:


> I'm not really sure if my girls are bonded. They are still young but I've never seen them fight. The Dipsy is smaller than Bugsy and she seems to be more attached to the Bugsy than Bugsy is to her. Dipsy follows her around everywhere and hides a lot more. I like the idea of getting two males as a fail safe for down the road. You say M/M bonding is the hardest, how much does it matter when they are small?
> 
> Just in general, do rabbits prefer to be in pairs? Or could they all bond as a group?



are your females spayed yet? if they're past spay age and getting along well, I'd consider them bonded.

groups are sometimes possible, but much trickier than pairs - it can be quite difficult to get more than two rabbits to get along.

when they're small (as in not sexually mature yet/too young for neuters), babies will bond with anyone - if you were wondering if you could keep the males together as babies with the intention of bonding them to the females after they're fixed, the answer is yes 



kukupecpec said:


> Bugsy is much more adventurous and curious. Dipsy will only try something if Bugsy has done it first, and in the last week Dipsy has started following Bugsy to the door and trying to sniff my fingers while I pet Bugsy when I come over to the cage.



sounds like my two - Nala is very adventurous and outgoing... Gazzles has always been shy and was a bit of a lump when she was younger, but the more time she spent with Nala, the more she came out of her shell. Nala taught her how to periscope, how to binky, how to climb the levels in the condo, how to chew on the coroplast and drive me crazy... lol. the "binky lesson" was the cutest thing EVER - Nala would run through the tunnel and then do a binky when she came out while Gaz watched. after the binky, she'd turn around and look at Gaz and Gaz would run through the tunnel and binky while Nala watched


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## kukupecpec (Dec 17, 2012)

Imbrium said:


> are your females spayed yet? if they're past spay age and getting along well, I'd consider them bonded.
> 
> groups are sometimes possible, but much trickier than pairs - it can be quite difficult to get more than two rabbits to get along.
> 
> ...




They are not spayed yet. They are probably about 4 or 5 months. I've been holding off on getting them spayed because it's that expensive time of year and I'm currently finishing an externship at a veterinary practice (in school for vet tech) and generally you get really good discounts after working at a practice for 90 days so I'm hoping to use that on the girls since they are about $350 each to spay. I've been assuming this ok since they will still be under 1 yr old at the time of spay and they are both girls so no uh oh's before then. 

I wasn't planning on bonding the boys with the girls, but I figured since they are all young chances are good they can all pair up in any way. It would be nice if I could house them all together as one big happy family, but this is mostly just easy on me. I was planning on housing them in pairs, but they would have so much more room if I could just make one big giant cage ya know? 

I love watching Dipsy decide that something is safe after seeing Bugsy try it. But Bugsy just really doesn't seem all the interested in Dipsy. She's never mean, she just doesn't initiate attention giving.


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## Imbrium (Dec 17, 2012)

Nala's the same way, it makes me sad when I see Gaz with her head down begging to be groomed and Nala just ignores her. Gaz grooms Nala all the time.

4-5 mos is around when hormones kick in, so if you're not going to be getting them spayed really soon, you should be prepared to separate them and house them separately until after the spays - you might not have to, but if a fight breaks out, it's better to be prepared! as for the age they'll be when you get them spayed, it's totally fine to wait until they're close to a year old.

if you really want to try the group thing, you might message MiniLopHop about it - she has six rabbits in pairs of two, four of whom get along well and always get their free-run time together, so she's got experience with group dynamics.

oh, and given the situation, you might wanna wait to get two new bunnies until after your girls are fully grown and spayed - that way you can see whether their "baby bond" carries over into adulthood. knowing how that bond is going to pan out in the long run can help you decide how you want to go about things with two new bunnies.


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## 1357bunnylover (Dec 19, 2012)

$350 for a spay?! Wow that's expensive!


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## kukupecpec (Dec 19, 2012)

it's hard to find a specialist in town that doesn't charge an arm and leg. One of the vets at my clinic says he's quite familiar with the procedure and I can get it done for free there after working for a specified number of days so I'll just go that route. 

Unfortunately, as soon as I shared how well they get along, they started to fight!!!! I'd started an NIC hybrid cage for them so they were able t be separated immediately, but now I'm quite sad that they will be alone for at least 6 weeks.


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## Blue eyes (Dec 22, 2012)

I just wanted to emphasize that getting 2 young bunnies is NOT (imho) the easiest way to bond. In fact, that can be the most difficult. The reason is that, while almost all babies "get along" with other babies, they aren't bonded until after they've reached maturity. It is quite common for babies to start fighting once those hormones kick in. Once they are spayed/neutered, they can be re-introduced and then they may possibly bond. If your girls aren't spayed yet, it is still possible they will start fighting in the near future. If another bunny is introduced to the household, that could also trigger fights among the current two.

I'd like to suggest that you wait and see if your current two will truly bond. If they do, then consider yourself quite fortunate. If they don't, you may have to house them separately and then try to bond them individually with other rabbits. 

The easiest way to bond is to introduce two spayed/neutered rabbits under the watchful eye of experienced bun owners and see if they seem to be a good match. Then go through a bonding technique with them.


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