# Watch the 17 (YES - 17) baby flemish giants grow up....(2 litters)



## TinysMom (Dec 28, 2009)

As some of you know - we have had our first two litters of flemish giants here at Tiny's Texas Legends. We are all so thrilled (well...except for Art who is thinking of the food bill in a month or so).

Athena "gifted" us with 11 babies on Christmas Eve and then yesterday morning Sophia added 6 more precious babies to the count.

I will be posting updates in my blog on a regular basis (hopefully daily) for those who like to read blogs - and for those who just like to look at baby pictures - I'll also post the same updates in this thread too. 

Here are the first videos and pictures I have of Athena's litter - I have several more videos and pictures to upload tonight and hopefully post tomorrow.

By the way - Athena is feeding ALL of her eleven babies and they look like little pot bellied pigs sometimes. Sophia is doing a "so-so" job with her babies - she didn't know to make a nest and she seems a bit scared of them - but she did nurse them overnight.

It looks like all of the babies will be light grey like their mamas.


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## Elf Mommy (Dec 28, 2009)

Daily photos???? hehehehe

I'm going to be watching!!!


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## TinysMom (Dec 28, 2009)

Oh my - I sound drunk or something on the nest-building videos - but truth is - it was like 4 am and I'd been up all day and night....


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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Dec 28, 2009)

Great Start. I love the stories of your other Mummy's.


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## SweetSassy (Dec 28, 2009)

OMG!!.....I love seeing her carrying the hay to the nest box. That was awesome. Thanks for sharing Peg. 



At one point you could see her belly and you would have never guessed she had 11 babies in there. Lol. :biggrin2:


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## DeniseJP (Dec 29, 2009)

Gorgeous buns - congratulations!

Denise


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## irishbunny (Dec 29, 2009)

I can't watch the videos but am enjoying the pics


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## NorthernAutumn (Dec 29, 2009)

17!?
That's ludicrous!
What in the devil is in the water down there!

I told Nate how many babies you had, and his eyes just about came out of his head! 

Am looking forward to watching the buns grow... I bet Nyx is sulking about, looking for attention... she should come visit 
They look so fat and happy, Peg


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## BooLette (Dec 29, 2009)

Congratulations! I am really going to enjoy watching this and seeing the updates. 

I'll be pining from afar.


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## TinysMom (Dec 29, 2009)

I will be updating the thread soon with pictures but am very upset as Sophia is NOT nursing and when I just tried to make her nurse - she flinches and tries to bite me.

More of an update with videos & photos later.


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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Dec 29, 2009)

Ekk that's not good, what happens now?


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## nicolevins (Dec 29, 2009)

SO CUTE <33 Babies look quite healthy with round bellies!


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## TinysMom (Dec 29, 2009)

*Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears wrote: *


> Ekk that's not good, what happens now?


Some of this I'm hesitant to share - but oh well.

I worked with Arlene Thompson, the animal communicator today and she basically confirmed what I was suspecting.

Sophia doesnt' want to be a mother - didn't realize she had the babies (Art put them in the nestbox right after she had them on the floor) and because her cage was moved next to Athena's (so she could watch Athena nurse and then learn) - she seems to think her babies are Athena's. She recognizes them as babies - just not as HER babies.

I tried to have her nurse before contacting Arlene - it was a no go....she fought and every time a baby latched onto a nipple - she flinched and tried to get away. She even tried to bite me....very unusual for her.

So we're working on different options - right now - Sophia's babies along with two of Athena's babies are in Athena's nestbox and she'll nurse them one time. I'm going to try Sophia with Athena's babies since they're stronger and can maybe latch on and get her milk to drop - since they know what they're doing.

Worst case scenario....I go to handrearing.

More photos and updates later.


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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Dec 29, 2009)

Why try and split the group up? So there's 2 sets and Athena mothers all of them?


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## TinysMom (Dec 29, 2009)

*Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears wrote: *


> Why try and split the group up? So there's 2 sets and Athena mothers all of them?


Athena is going to continue to nurse all of her litter - but to have her nurse Sophia's litter also puts her at risk for mastitis which could put all the babies at risk. After all - there is only so much ONE doe can take before putting her at risk.

The hope is Athena's babies will help Sophia's milk to come down and once Sophia's babies are a bit stronger after a good feeding - they'll know what to do to get milk from Sophia.


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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Dec 29, 2009)

I understand Peg. I hope it all works out.


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## SweetSassy (Dec 29, 2009)

Is their any other breeders around who have rabbits thatcan help the babies with nursing? 



I'm so sorry your going thru this. :hug:


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## mistyjr (Dec 29, 2009)

Holly Cow what a litter,,, Congrats... They are cute


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## TinysMom (Dec 30, 2009)

I just tried nursing Athena's litter - but with Sophia. The hope was that they would be strong enough and know enough about what they are doing - to bring down her milk. I'm not 100% sure that they got fed - but towards the end of it - she had calmed down a lot and a few of them look somewhat fed. (A couple were already huge).

I'll share more pictures tomorrow - I'm exhausted from the stress and need to head to bed soon.


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## Happi Bun (Dec 30, 2009)

Ah, the joys and tribulations of having baby bunnies. The adults are hard enough! :shock: I'm so very sorry you are facing problems with Sophia, though I know you are totally capable of handling the situation and doing the best for everyone involved. Sending you luck and well wishes that Sophia comes around. 

:clover::brown-bunny


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## Nela (Dec 30, 2009)

Whoa Peg! 17?! And on Christmas Eve/Day??? Will you name them all after Christmas things? You might even have all of Santa's reindeer. Hehe. I really hope things work out with Sophia. Hang in there :rose:


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## TinysMom (Dec 30, 2009)

All seventeen babies are still alive although Sophia's didn't eat nearly enough.

I'm going to Tractor Supply this morning to get some things as backup for nursing if I can't get Sophia to nurse them today. More later...


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## SweetSassy (Dec 30, 2009)

This has to be very stressful for you. Your in my thoughts. :hug:



edit: I'm glad all the babies are still doing well :bunnydance::bunnydance:


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## wabbitmom12 (Dec 30, 2009)

:hug: Sorry it's not going too well with Sophia right now. I know you're worried, and doing your best...hang in there! I'm praying and am sure several others are too. 

Just a thought, for the benefit of others even if you can't use this suggestion: Sweetie didn't like for us to put her over the babies to help with nursing, so 3 times a day we would get her in a comfortable trance on her back. We'd let her relax a few minutes (as she alwaysenjoyedbeing on her back),and thenhelp the babies latch on. Sometimes it was quite a circus! They'd wriggle around looking for the "best" nipple and knock each other out of the way (and off the nipple, of course!), slip off her belly, slide down beside her tail, etc.We usually had to help them quite a bit, and continue to stroke Mama and talk softly to her so she would see it as a positive experience.

Though I'm sure the milk comes down more naturally when Mama is standing, we found that the babies did get some colostrum and the extra stimulation for those couple of days made her fill up with milk until she was eager to nurse on her own (to relieve the pressure I'm sure! LOL...those of you who have breastfed know EXACTLY what I mean!)

Sometimes the session on her back would last up to 1/2 an hour because she was a very good trancer, and we could let the littlest of the litters have Mama's belly to themselves a bit so they didn't have to compete. And doing it with two people was easiest, though I did do a few sessions by myself, keeping the babies close by in a box and putting them on her tummy one at a time so I could carefully watch and help them.

This was time consuming...but it worked for us. It seemed that after Mama and babies alike got the hang of things after 3 sessionsper day for 3-4 days, everyone was much more relaxed, babies were getting chubby, and Sweetie was more confident. Then we let her take it from there, checking for a day or so to be sure every kit was staying full. She always had plenty of milk and did great on her own after that!


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## TinysMom (Dec 30, 2009)

I'll share more later - but here are photos of Athena's babies today (the healthiest 9 of them anyway).

Athena did nurse Sophia's babies a bit ago...


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## hartleybun (Dec 30, 2009)

:inlove: and i thought i had a hard time hand rearing my lab's 5 pups when she was so ill after whelping! i can sympathise with you on every sleepless night and worry filled day. 
thank you for sharing such lovely pics x


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## SweetSassy (Dec 30, 2009)

:inlove: Wow, you can tell they've grow.


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## Blaze_Amita (Dec 31, 2009)

WOW, lots of babies!! they're adorable! Good luck! I have never had any luck hand rearing babies, but my babies are a bit smaller (Dutch, HLop, Dwarf before, and Mini rex)


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## TinysMom (Dec 31, 2009)

I'm leaving in about 5 minutes with Sophia to go to the vet in San Antonio - I think she has either a retained kit or placenta. She's doing ok other than slight fever but she's all over me and wanting me to hold her and baby her.

Thoughts and prayers appreciated.


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## Blaze_Amita (Dec 31, 2009)

Best of luck!!! I'll be thinking of you!!


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## hartleybun (Dec 31, 2009)

ray: prayers and good wishes coming you way. thinking of you and those precious bunnies.


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## Fancy77 (Dec 31, 2009)

OMG WOW Peg best of luck...do u think that is why she doesnt want to nurse???


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## Wabbitdad12 (Dec 31, 2009)

Such cute bunners!


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## myLoki (Dec 31, 2009)

ray:

t.


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## Pipp (Dec 31, 2009)

ray:


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## JimD (Dec 31, 2009)

ray:


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## TinysMom (Dec 31, 2009)

The "sorta" good news. Sophia really doesn't have milk - they couldn't find a retained kit or placenta after doing an x-ray AND ultrasound....but there was something there that was sort of suspicious. The vet said she can't say for sure that Sophia HAS an infection in her uterus - but she can't say for sure she doesn't have one either - so the decision was made to put her on antibiotics for the next 10 days (9 days plus today). 

We're also going to schedule her for a spay - probably in January. She doesn't appear to have mothering instincts...she has a lot of fat around her uterus (one uterine horn was enlarged) and since she is really a beloved pet - we decided it was best to not breed her again.

Mind you - this was why I got out of breeding lionheads in the first place....almost losing a doe I loved.

In addition - we lost two babies today - and we may lose a third one that got hurt really bad when it got out of the nestbox and cage.

I watched Athena to see what she's doing and I'm taking away her nestbox and giving her something taller. Basically - she made her cage in a corner of the nestbox (back corner) and then goes in and digs all of her babies forwards (as if she was digging in the ground) - and feeds them and hopes they go back. Some of them fall out though apparently or crawl out.

That's all for now - more later - I promise.


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## Fancy77 (Dec 31, 2009)

I am so sorry huni that had to be mixed blessings for sure. I am so happy to hear Sophia is doing ok, but real sorry about the losses too.


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## Blaze_Amita (Dec 31, 2009)

I am so sorry for the lost kits. At least mommy's okay.


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## nicolevins (Jan 1, 2010)

Glad Mamma is ok 
Sorry bout the lost babies


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## wabbitmom12 (Jan 2, 2010)

:hug:I'm so glad Sophia is okay! Her anitbiotic will probably knock out whatever's bothering her. The spay next month sounds like agood idea too. 

ink iris:RIP little babies...

Bunnies really are such fragile creatures, and being owner - much less a breeder - can be so heartbreaking at times.


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## bearbop (Jan 3, 2010)

you should be proud


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## TinysMom (Jan 5, 2010)

From earlier today (cross posted in my blog too)

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## Fancy77 (Jan 5, 2010)

I am in love


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## Wabbitdad12 (Jan 5, 2010)

They are just too cute!


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## SweetSassy (Jan 5, 2010)

*Fancy77 wrote: *


> I am in love


:yeahthat:


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## wabbitmom12 (Jan 5, 2010)

Oh....My.....Gosh!!!!! 

They are so perfect! :inlove: And I love those big feetz sticking up in the air, lol!


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## undergunfire (Jan 5, 2010)

NOW I WANT ONE EVEN MORE, DARNIT!!!!!

:grumpy:


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## mistyjr (Jan 5, 2010)

They look like wrinkly bulldogs...


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## SweetSassy (Jan 6, 2010)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> NOW I WANT ONE EVEN MORE, DARNIT!!!!!
> 
> :grumpy:


Me too :yeahthat:


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## TinysMom (Jan 6, 2010)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> NOW I WANT ONE EVEN MORE, DARNIT!!!!!
> 
> :grumpy:


You know where I live!


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## undergunfire (Jan 6, 2010)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> *undergunfire wrote: *
> 
> 
> > NOW I WANT ONE EVEN MORE, DARNIT!!!!!
> ...


I just wish I could have a Flemish. Ryan and I talked about it after looking at all of your Flemish pictures in your blog a few weeks ago...and he said it would only be fair to get one if we could have it be free range in most of the house, just because they are so huge. I guess I kind of agree because it would be fair to the Flemish at that point and it would be unfair to get one now at this point because my current buns (with the exception of Morgan & hopefully Molly) can't be free range.

Maybe my dog grooming career will bring in a good cash flow, so we can own a 4 bedroom house with a den space....1) bunny room, 2) future kid room, 3) our room, 4) flemish room, then ryan can have the den for his music/computer room .


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## sbaxter (Jan 7, 2010)

Soo cute i`m speechless :inlove:


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## undergunfire (Jan 10, 2010)

I want more baby pictures :stikpoke.


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## TinysMom (Jan 10, 2010)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> I want more baby pictures :stikpoke.


More in a bit.....we lost one baby last night - the explorer baby fell while climbing and broke its back...

So we're down to 13 babies...


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## undergunfire (Jan 10, 2010)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> *undergunfire wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I want more baby pictures :stikpoke.
> ...


Oh no....I'm so sorry .

I hope the rest of the babies make it through...secretly hoping one of those little babies makes its way to Mosher Lane in Prescott, AZ :embarrassed:.


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## TinysMom (Jan 10, 2010)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> *TinysMom wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *undergunfire wrote: *
> ...


Looks like I have steel (maybe) and light grey....

The steel ones are so funny - they have ears like Hermes. Their faces aren't as wide as Mercury's babies either - but those ears....wow.

And I think I'm getting two more girls - I'm going to update my blog with them in a few minutes...


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## undergunfire (Jan 10, 2010)

A steel is what I want! I love them and the light greys. If the steel is a girl....we have trouble!


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## TinysMom (Jan 10, 2010)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> A steel is what I want! I love them and the light greys. If the steel is a girl....we have trouble!


Perhaps I should say we may have "double trouble" as I may have two steel does. I need to check them later this week.

:biggrin2:


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## undergunfire (Jan 10, 2010)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> *undergunfire wrote: *
> 
> 
> > A steel is what I want! I love them and the light greys. If the steel is a girl....we have trouble!
> ...


I'll just cry! I wish it was my time to have a Flemish!!


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## TinysMom (Jan 10, 2010)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> *TinysMom wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *undergunfire wrote: *
> ...


I may be doing a Hermes/Athena breeding before she retires...not sure yet. If so - I'll get more steels - I'm pretty sure of that.


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## undergunfire (Jan 10, 2010)

Around when do you think you will breed them? Season wise. I can picture a Flemish running through the house with 4 cats and a little dog :twitch:.


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## TinysMom (Jan 10, 2010)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> Around when do you think you will breed them? Season wise. I can picture a Flemish running through the house with 4 cats and a little dog :twitch:.


I will be doing my next breeding in April or May....then again next September/October...something like that.

Probably in each breeding I'll try for a litter of light greys and a litter of steel...etc.


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## fuzz16 (Jan 10, 2010)

awww i like the grays, cant wait to see more baby pictures 

sorry for the loss of your little explorer baby ):


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## undergunfire (Jan 10, 2010)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> *undergunfire wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Around when do you think you will breed them? Season wise. I can picture a Flemish running through the house with 4 cats and a little dog :twitch:.
> ...


:waiting::hyper:


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## TinysMom (Jan 10, 2010)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> *TinysMom wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *undergunfire wrote: *
> ...


You'll have to let me know what you want when you're closer to being read (doe or buck) and then I'll watch for one with a personality you'd like. I suspect if you want one like Nyx - I'd have to breed Hermes to her - then again - maybe God broke the mold after Nyx (or she broke the mold).

I'm already really enjoying these babies though and starting to see differences in them (both in their bodies and their personalities).

For instance - one of Athena's babies was just grooming her head a little while ago. I suspect that one may be more of a lover since I frequently see it grooming other bunnies.


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## undergunfire (Jan 10, 2010)

Aww you know what bunnies I like! I always love rabbits just like my Morgan...of course, Morgs is a big bunny stuck in a little bunny's body.

I just keep thinking about the boy bunny I met at the local show here last September. He was sooo huge and calm....loved being held.

I have enjoyed having Lilly here so much because she is a larger bunny with the personality of one. She's definitely Californian mixed with a lop...but shes got the Californian personality (I know because I remember George).


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## wabbitmom12 (Jan 11, 2010)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> *undergunfire wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I want more baby pictures :stikpoke.
> ...


:tears2:I'm so sorry Peg! Poor lil' baby.


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## Fancy77 (Jan 11, 2010)

Sorry u lost another baby


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## pOker (Jan 11, 2010)

i am terribly sorry you lost another bunny...

they are all soooo adorable..


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## Wabbitdad12 (Jan 11, 2010)

Sorry about the loss of the little one.

Dave


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## TinysMom (Jan 13, 2010)




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## DeniseJP (Jan 16, 2010)

Sorry to hear about the lost babies but those in the last set of pictures are just adorable babies - I love when they sleep all flopped out...

Denise


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