# Just some questions. Not really in need of ASAP answers.



## Weetwoo_89 (Apr 7, 2007)

I read somewhere (though for the life of me I can't remember where) that a mixed breed rabbit lives longer then a pure breed. I am doubtful of the truth here. If rabbits lived longer if they were mixed breed, why wouldn't more people mix breeds? 
I remember that same source saying that smaller bunnies also lived longer then bigger ones. This seems to contridict most living things I have seen. (Ex. Every big dog I have ever had has outlived the short ones. Maybe this only happens to me though?) 
Also something that has been in my mind a while, is can any rabbit be bred to any other rabbit? (I am not planning on breeding, by any strech of the imagination. So don't worry about me doing something dumb) Now I can see problems arrising with breeding a Flemmie to, for example, a Dwarf Hotot, assuming the Hotot is the mother. But could someone breed a Dwarf Hotot to a Holland lop? What would be the result?I know that there are for example, lionlops, but could there also be a"Dutch lops"? Also could a domestic bunny be impregnated by a wild rabbit, or vice versa.
One last one for this current post (Though I am sure your answers will inspire more questions) If you bred a purebred Holland lop with a purebred Lionhead you get a lionlop (Sorry I keep using lionlops, but they are what got me thinking about all this breeding stuff) is the lionlop a mixed breed, or is it it's own purebred because both it's parents are purebred?

So, somebody come and chat with me about my breeding questions. Even post some of your own. My learning depends on all you question askers and answer-ers. ^.^
Rae


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## MyBabyBunnies (Apr 7, 2007)

It's my opinion that crosses are hardier. I don't have time to type out my reasoning though but you do see it all the time in dogs with certain breeds being more prone to certain problems. More people don't breed them because purebreds are hard enough to sell and mixed breeds are not showable making the breeder pool of potential buyers disappear.

Around here, domestic rabbits cannot breed with wild rabbits but that being said it is because the most common wild rabbits here (like Jack Rabbits) are are actually hares, not rabbits.

Smaller bunnies generally live longer, but not by much. Again I'll use dogs as an example - a Great Dane lives on average 7-10 years while small breed dogs can live 20 years. I don't believe the large breeds live much shorter although I do believeI read on one breeders page that they lived on average 2 years... (I would definitely be avoiding that breeder!). But again, it could also be the purebred plus the large breed that shortens the life span. I think I asked someone and she said on average their's live 7-8 years, which is just the lower end of the average rabbit lifespan.

I'm not a breeder, but I have researched these questions and come to my own conclusions over time. Others may disagree but some of this is my own personal experience (mixed breeds vs. purebreds).


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## Michaela (Apr 7, 2007)

I can't answer your questions about the different breeds becauseI don't know, but I can tell you about the wild rabbits.

In America the answer is no, a wild rabbit cannot produce offspring with a domestic rabbit. Your wild rabbits (Eastern Cottontails I believe they are called) are a different species to the domestic rabbit.

However, in Europe, Australia, New Zealand etc. it can and does happen.European wild rabbits are the same species as domestic rabbits. Pet rabbits were originally domesticated by European monks and nuns form eat, and later for fur, before spreading as pets.

I think there has been successful fertilization between a Cottontail and a Domestic rabbit, but no kits were ever born.


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## Kala_Bunga (Apr 7, 2007)

I can't answer any of your questions...but I wanted to add something about dogs and there life spands....

mybabybunnies-wow are you sure that great danes live to 10? because the oldest gratdane in record was 9...the average over here is 4-7...How I know this is because I go to numerous dog shows just to watch and I have 2 greatd danes my self, what I looked for in a breeder was somebody with long life spands in there bloodlines, someone who socialises there pups,keeps them indoors, does'nt over breed there dogs and someone who does'nt wean them when they are to young...the average great dane leaves the breeder at about 10-12 weeks, I know the average for other breeds is 8-10 weeks but because great danes are so big they mature slower while they are puppies and mature really fast when they get a little older...

Also in my experience all the smaller dogs always outlived the bigger ones....
wow you had a smaller dog that lived to 20? the average for a small dog is 14-16...

okay enough about dogs cause I can go on for hours:shock:...*laughs*:colors:


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## Starlight Rabbitry (Apr 7, 2007)

To answer some of your questions:

A lionlop is its own breed. A breed becomes a true pruebred breed when the breed can breed true. What that means is if you take a Lionlop and breed it to another Lionlop, you should get nothing but Lionlops. If you get some Lionheads (with their ears up) and some that look like Holland Lops, then you are just breeding mixed breeds. This process of creating a true breed takes generations and generations to get the rabbits to breed true.

There are breeds that were at one time mixed. The jersey woolies were created by taking a netherland dwarf and mixing it with a french angora and a couple of other specimens....can't really remember off the top of my head. It is in the Jersey Wooly guidebook. If you are interested, I can look it up.

I am not sure on the smaller rabbits outliving the larger rabbits. My Dutch and Woolies are around the same size and my oldest wooly was 10 years old and my oldest dutch was 9.

Any more questions, just ask...

Sharon


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## TinysMom (Apr 7, 2007)

Well, if you're talking "purebred" like ARBA registration, etc - it would have to have three generations behind itof nothing but lionlops....on the pedigree. Then it is a "purebred" lionlop...

...at least that is the way I understand it.

Peg


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## 1dog3cats17rodents (Apr 7, 2007)

Well, I can't help much but I know that big dogs usually live muchshorter than small dogs. And mixed breed dogs (rabbits too???) are hardier because they have littlein breeding. So many people mass produce pure breeds,especially popular ones like labs, that a lot of them are inbred, and have underlying issues. This is why so many have hip troubles, and sometimes why purebred dogs suddenly have aggression problems *thinks of uncle's dog* Even crossbreeding once can help a lot, so mixed breed dogs can actually have a better chance of not getting sick, healing if they do get sick, and not having inbred related problems. Saddly, when a new and rare cross occurs that is popular (golden doodles, labradoodles, ect.) they are very quickly mass produced by some individuals, and they lose the crossbreed vigour. I will stop know before I get too into the topic, but I think this could apply to some types of rabbits that are very popular in pet sores. They get inbred a lot, so crossbreeds have more diverse gene pools, and are healthier


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## seniorcats (Apr 7, 2007)

http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=10563&amp;forum_id=1&amp;highlight=hybrid+vigor

Here's a really good earlier discussion on the topic.


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## katt (Apr 8, 2007)

mix breed rabbits- someone already said it, but i agree with the fact that mix breeds tend to have less inbreeding in their past, and i think that effects their life range. although i have no justification to prove this as i only have ever really owned purebred rabbits

size- i have never heard that a large breed rabbit doesn't live as long as a small breed. i personally have seen no difference in life range between size.

rabbit to rabbit breeding- and breed of domestic rabbit can breed with another breed. just like any breed of dog and mix with another. flemish giants can breed to dwarf breeds. i have bred a dwarf hotot to a holland lop (didn't happen on purpose). they basically looked like holland lops with short ears that stood at an odd angle. what many people do realize is that many coat patterns (hotot markings, english spot markings, dutch markings, ect) are all recessive. so by breeding a rabbit that has marking requirements to a rabbit that doesn't (like alop or netherland dwarf) you won't get say a dutch marked holland lop(thinking if you breed a dutch and a holland lop together)

wild rabbits- i think this was already explained really well, in the united states it can't happen.

the term purebred- this is debatable. i was always told this about when an animal becomes a purebred:

in the US a purebred rabbit is classified by arba (american rabbit breeders association) as one that is true fro 3 generations. this is proven by a pedigree. arba pedigrees are 3 generations. so tinysmom is correct. most breeders when mixing breeds to create a new breed, or new variety in a breed will create hybrids. for instance there is a small group of people working twards blue/fawn rhinelanders (rhinelanders area tri color breed that only comes in currently black/orange tri). so they mixed breeds to get the colors they want. the first generation of hybrid mix breeds will be called F1 blue/fawn rhinelanders(meaning that they are first generation of mixed breeds). the second generation will be F2, the third will be F3 and after that breeding will be purebred. it is hard to understand if you don't work with pedigrees.

i hope that i gave another perspective on your questions


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## Weetwoo_89 (Apr 8, 2007)

This is all really interesting. I have been curious for sometime about how breeding and genetics all fallin about the look/behavior/etc of rabbits. I have always found it very interesting, taking two of an animal and putting them together to make an animal that has characteristics of both. So what I am getting is that there is a high chance that people would be better off getting a mixed breed rabbit, because as the general concensus said, they are less prone to problems. Are there any good thing about getting a show rabbit, one that is pruebred? Besides the fact of course, that it could be shown (and they are bunnies that need love too)? 

Also, I have seen (at other places of course)people having a great deal of hostility towards people that breed mixes.( It couldn't be here, because I have never seen hostility here)I see people tell these other people that if they want to breed then they should go buy 3 show quality rabbits and breed them(Two does and a buck). Is this person wrong (assuming that they are taking care of their rabbits and find good homes for them), or because if they bred show quality they would have more people to sell them to? (Or some other reason I have not thought of yet?) Just some more foods for thought. I hope I am no too confusing.

RaE


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## 1dog3cats17rodents (Apr 8, 2007)

People are against breeding mixes because the rabbits are often from unknown background, and there really is not a reason to breed without a specific goal, such as this or that color, marking, feature. People who breed mixes are often just doing it because both parents are cute, not realizing that does not mean the babies will look like either parent ( as katt said)


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## TinysMom (Apr 8, 2007)

Well, I have problems with the idea of just taking some cute bunnies and breeding them together- even if you have the resources to go to the vet and you do research on breeding. 

First of all, a good breeder will not inbreed too much. They will either have more than one line that they cross every X generations or they will bring in some rabbits from other breeders to keep their rabbits from having problems. This keeps the rabbits "purebred" but avoids the problem of too much inbreeding.

Part of our problem right now here in the US (and it is worse in other places) is too many rabbits wind up in shelters. I don't see this as much the fault of "responsible breeders" who screen their buyers and tell folks to bring their rabbits back if they decide they don't want them - as much as I see it a reflection of our "disposable" society -where we discard something when we get bored with it. We do it with animals...people (relationships)....property...etc. I'm talking about our society as a whole.

The thing is - from my understanding (and there are no rescues near me)- less PUREBRED rabbits wind up in rescues and STAY THERE than mixes.I'm sure there will be folks on here who work with rescues who can share the statistics to disprove me. That is just based upon the times I've browsed petfinder looking at rabbits. 

So from my viewpoint, the responsible thing is to pick one breed and work within that breed to create healthy rabbits. Trust me - it is still fascinating to study the genetics and work with just a few rabbits within the one breed. 

Now - I have done cross-breeding or mixed breeding. When we first got Puck, we had requests for lop rabbits. We bred him with Jenny (who is larger and definitely NOT a lop) and had some lop eared babies (and some that weren't lop). And to be honest with you - that first breeding was not on purpose - Puck had run of the lawn and Jenny had run of an enclosed area on the lawn...and she found a way out of the enclosure. I wasn't thrilled...and yes...it was an accident. I had never ever seen her get out before and she had played outside many times. But we got homes for the whole litter and when people saw the lops - they wanted them.

I then went on to buy Milina - a lop doe - so that we could provide some lops here locally since there are no lop breeders for at least 150miles that I know of. 

I've also cross-bred for lionlops. This was a deliberate choice I made and I am going to work with just a very small number of rabbits and have a very limited number of lionlops per year..maybe 3 litters or so.

But this is for a purpose....I have set goals I'm working towards. I'm not just going, "oh....two cute bunnies...let's throw them together." 

I think it is possible to get purebred rabbits that can have health issues. I know of two people on this board who had flemish giants from the same breeder (and the rabbits were somewhat related I think). This breeder had done a lot of breeding for the huge heads...and I have wondered if maybe they had done too much inbreeding as both the rabbits had heart attacks at fairly young ages...and I was thinking I'd heard the mom of the rabbits died fairly young - but I could be wrong on that- I don't remember for sure.

I just don't think that all purebreds have to have health issues. If they did...then nobody would want them.

I hope I've made sense.

By the way, the reason I and others will suggest starting with a trio is so that you have two does giving birth around the same time and one can foster if the other one has problems.

Peg


You said:

So what I am getting is that there is a high chance that people would be better off getting a mixed breed rabbit, because as the general concensus said, they are less prone to problems. Are there any good thing about getting a show rabbit, one that is pruebred? Besides the fact of course, that it could be shown (and they are bunnies that need love too)? 

Also, I have seen (at other places of course)people having a great deal of hostility towards people that breed mixes.( It couldn't be here, because I have never seen hostility here)I see people tell these other people that if they want to breed then they should go buy 3 show quality rabbits and breed them(Two does and a buck). Is this person wrong (assuming that they are taking care of their rabbits and find good homes for them), or because if they bred show quality they would have more people to sell them to? (Or some other reason I have not thought of yet?) Just some more foods for thought. I hope I am no too confusing.


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## Weetwoo_89 (Apr 8, 2007)

Thanks, Peg. It is really fascinating. I think one day I might like to breed rabbits. That day won't until much farther into the future. I think it would be a very rewarding expirence. 

One last thing before Easter meal. It seems like every breeder I have talked to has quite a large number of rabbits. or maybe it isn't that big, depending on what you consider big. I consider 20rabbits a lot of rabbits. But you (Peg) have said to stay insmall breeding numbers.... I don't really know how to get out what I am trying to say... Like, why are there so many? To work on bigger lines? Different lines? Different breeds? I guess I just need to find a breeder that I can ask questions in person. Don't know if that would help them understand me. I am going to go look for a rabbit breeder faq. Maybe I can at least understand what it is that I am wanting to ask.
Rae


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## TinysMom (Apr 8, 2007)

First of all - let me start out by saying that I have OVER 100 rabbits. I'm not going to tell you how many over (I'd have to go count them)...but well over 100 rabbits. I'm going to share my reasons in just a bit.

But I want to say that I always try to tell folks to start small(smaller than I did) because you want breeding to remain fun and you want it to not cost you an arm and a leg. I go through about 10 bags of food (50 pounds each) every 2 weeks. Yeah - it gets expensive.

So how did I wind up with so many and why am I keeping them? (I'm hoping to find a way to cut back down to 50 in the next few months and I'll explain that here in a bit).

Well - first of all - 7 of those rabbits have maloclussion. This means they have bad teeth. Once it popped up - I no longer bred the parents and have petted them out. HOWEVER, I can't bring myself to trust anyone else to adopt those rabbits and tend to their teeth. The nearest vet who *might* consider it if I asked her- is 70 miles one way. Our local vets won't do it. We live in a farming area and an area where many families are low income. They can't afford a vet visit every 2 weeks to trim teeth. So I keep these rabbits. (Most breeders I know would have them put down over this.)

Then - several of the rabbits are from litters that just weren't show quality and they outgrew that "baby" stage before I could sell them locally. I'm thinking maybe 20 are like this - maybe less. Most are black (not an easy color to sell here). On top of that - they're bucks.Great for pets...but most breeders want the best quality in their bucks(I know I do).

No - I am not taking them to lionhead Nationals as I would not put them on a show table. They're not good enough. 

I have about 30 does that I'd like to retire. Many haven't even had a litter as I backed off from breeding a lot of last summer and early fall. But the lionhead breed is evolving and their looks are changing(unlike holland lops for example which are pretty standardized). These does are the "older" look...and what they produce will not be good for breeders who are trying to update the look. (I posted on a thread once about the history of lionheads and showed how it had changed). So while these does might have been ok 2 years ago....now I need does with a shorter body and shorter ears.

So why not just rehome the does? Good question. 

But how do I rehome them without worrying that someone is going to breed them to a Florida White or Californian or whatever. We do have irresponsible breeders in this area.

So when I have my "free to good home lionhead pet" days...I only offer my bucks (which I'm going to do with a bunch of my bucks but was waiting until after Easter). I have people come and they can look at the rabbits I put out on the porch in carriers and play with them. I interview them and YES - I have turned people down. I have a sign that I put out that says, "We reserve the right to refuse to give away a pet." Many of my customers are friends of someone who got a free lionhead and their friend winds up bringing them over (often also bringing the lionhead they got from me to show me) and their friend wants to buy a pet. In these cases, I always push bucks just in case someone is trying to pull one over on me and do some breeding on the side. (I have also talked to some people who breed or have bred in the past and allowed them to buy a female for limited breedings...but only after first feeling them out about how often they want to breed, etc).

Anyway - I digress - I'm sorry.

So in my case - I have several lionheads that are of the older style. I also have some that have the newer, shorter look to them. These are the ones I'm focusing on breeding with.

But I also have different colors I work with. For example, I am working with the following colors:

tort
sable point
siamese sable
REW
blue
limited black

Those colors are on the current certificates of development and are considered showable colors.

I also work with:

chocolate
black otter
chocolate otter
harlequin
brokens (mostly tort although I'm getting a broken siamese sable doe)
chinchilla & squirrel (the dilute of chinchilla).
frosted pearl

Now - I can really screw up not so much my colors - but the colors of another person if I breed two colors together that don't belong together. For example, I once had a chestnut give me a harlequin baby.I was like, "Where did that come from?" Well..the chestnut masked the harlequin gene until the doe was bred to someone else who was known for carrying it (I didn't realize at the time that he was known for throwing harlequins).

I find that I get the nicest sable points if I take a sable point buck to a sable point doe - so of course - that means I need a minimum of 2 sable points. There are other things where I just personally like to take the same color to each other because I think it looks better.

So for every color I work with - I like to have both a male and a female.

If you counted -I work with 13 colors...so that means 26 rabbits (although I don't have a buck in every color).

So do you see how it can add up?

Art & I were talking the other day about cutting back. I was saying that even if I could cut back to 80 - I'd be thrilled.

Now - I have several babies here right now that are going to Lionhead Nationals - so that will help. I've also sold some adults for Nationals too.

But I am unlike some other breeders in one thing. I have a hard time moving out my does. Breeders will often tell you, "Keep the best....sell the rest.." and they'll keep something out of a mama. I understand that....I tend to keep too much.

But I've seen does come here and they're scared. A doe's cage IS her territory. It is her home. Some of them aren't overly outgoing and they come to a new place - and I can see the fear in their eyes and the stress that they feel.

A good example here is Anissa. She was my first "homegrown" Best of Breed winner in 2005. I love her to pieces. She's a single mane chestnut though - a color I'm not working with - plus I'm trying to get out of single manes. I would absolutely love to rehome her -but she knows no place else She's almost 2 now and this is the only place she has known. She's cautious and timid around strangers although she will let me pet her.

I find myself thinking, "Its not fair to sell her to another breeder who will just sell her later on down the road..". If I could find her a pet home where I could trust the folks to not breed her- or not breed her more than a couple of times per year (although she LOVES being a mother)....then I would let her go.

So that is why I have so many rabbits.

And I love them all dearly - but there are days when I wish I could just get rid of about 2/3 of them and just have more time to play with them....

So that is why I say "start small".

I hope I've helped in some way.

Peg*

Weetwoo_89 wrote: *


> Thanks, Peg. It is really fascinating. I think one day I might like to breed rabbits. That day won't until much farther into the future. Ithink it would be a very rewarding expirence.
> 
> One last thing before Easter meal. It seems like every breeder I have talked to has quite a large number of rabbits. or maybe it isn't that big, depending on what you consider big. I consider 20 rabbits a lot of rabbits. But you (Peg) have said to stay insmall breeding numbers.... I don't really know how to get out what I am trying to say... Like, why are there so many? To work on bigger lines? Different lines? Different breeds? I guess I just need to find a breeder that I can ask questions in person. Don't know if that would help them understand me. I am going to go look for a rabbit breede rfaq. Maybe I can at least understand what it is that I am wanting to ask.
> Rae


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## pamnock (Apr 9, 2007)

Mixed breeds are generally hardier. 

Intense inbreeding is often used to create individual breeds, but inbreeding diminishes the gene pool and can lead to "inbreeding depression": shortened lifespan,weak disease resistance,inherited genetic disorders, and reproductive disorders. This happens in mammal populations as well as isolated human populations. The Amish population in America is intensely studied due to their limited gene pool and high incidence of inherited disorders.


You cando a search and find numerous threadswhere we have discussed inbreeding depression. Here is the link to one where Ihave also included a number of links for more info:

http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=10563&amp;forum_id=1&amp;highlight=inbreeding+depression


Pam


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## Weetwoo_89 (Apr 9, 2007)

Peg, you are really opening up a lot of things I hadn't thought of before.

If you bred my hypothetical holland lop to my (also hypothetical) lionhead, assuming the were pure, would they all be lionlops? Would some be just one or the other? Do the odds increase forgetting lionlops if you bred two lionlops? I would think so, but I just want to check..(I know I seem obsessed, but that situation is really the only one I know of to describe all the questions I have been coming up with.) You guys have been amazing at answering all this!
RaE


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## TinysMom (Apr 9, 2007)

Hi again. Well first of all - let's start outwith the whole "lionlop" thing. Technically, there isn't such a breed yet. Oh - there is - in the fact that we call rabbits lionlops if they have lopped ears and the mane of a lionhead. But they aren't really a breed per se.

It is my understanding that in order to call a rabbit by a breed title- it has to exhibit the characteristics of the breed. This means - that any rabbits that were produced from this crossing - would have to do two things: have a mane (the lion part) and have lopped ears.

Now the biggest problem would be in having a mane. Why? Because to my knowledge - short of some "fluke" (and I have one)...it is impossible to have a double maned lop. Notice I said - short of a fluke? I have a doe that is out of two lionheads - but somewhere back maybe 4-10generations ago - there was a lop in her lines - and so she has a double mane AND lopped ears. But that is highly unusual.

When you take a single mane rabbit and breed it to a single mane rabbit- if I remember the statistics correctly - you get 25% double maned (hey - I guess you could get double maned lops after enough generations of the breedings now that I think it through), 50% single maned, and 25% no-maned. 

This means that...statistically speaking - 25% of the rabbits born from the lionlops being bred together (in the beginning) probably would not have the mane gene and therefore be a mixed breed.

I'm really typing this off the top of my head and trying to think it through as I type.

I'm assuming you're starting out with single maned lionlops as not many people that I know of are working on them. Now if you were starting with double maned - then supposedly all of the rabbits would carry the right genes.

Am I making sense? Kinda like...if you're creating a new breed - a % of each litter may not meet the breed characteristics you're looking for. So you pet them out....and work with the ones that carry the traits the rabbit needs to be that breed.

I'm going to try to think about your questions (and maybe you'll ask more) and answer better later?

Peg*

Weetwoo_89 wrote: *


> Peg, you are really opening up a lot of things I hadn't thought of before.
> 
> If you bred my hypothetical holland lop to my (also hypothetical) lionhead, assuming the were pure, would they all be lionlops? Would some be just one or the other? Do the odds increase forgetting lionlops if you bred two lionlops? I would think so, but I just want to check..(I know I seem obsessed, but that situation is really the only one I know of to describe all the questions I have been coming up with.) You guys have been amazing at answering all this!
> RaE


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## TinysMom (Apr 10, 2007)

Ok - I've had a ton of water to drink....food to eat...and time to think. So here comes with a somewhat thought out reply...

If we bred this holland lop (hereby called hl) to the lionhead (lh)...you might get lionlops.

First of all, you would need to use a double mane lionhead. This means that genetically, each baby would get 1 mane gene. It would have to.None of them could get 2 mane genes...but they would all get one mane gene.

As long as their ears lopped....then they could be lionlops.

But let's say that their manes fall out at 3 months because they're single mane...are they still lionlops? Yes and no. Genetically...yes.But by physical appearance...no. 

Now - since I suspect what your next question will be...if you really want to breed these lionlops - you need two of one breed and one of the other. Let's say we're going to use a double mane lionhead buck and two holland lop does. (Hint: Pick the longest eared lionhead buck you can find that is double mane).

Now - doe A has all single mane lionlops. So does doe B.

Now we're going to take a single mane lionlop from doe A and a single mane lionlop from doe B and breed them together. Why do that you say?I'm glad you asked...it is to help create a DOUBLE mane lionlop.

You see - if you breed single mane to single mane - the odds are 25%will be no mane, 25% will be double mane and 50% will be single mane. 

You want to take the double manes to use together.

So hopefully, you'll breed a pair from doe A and B - and another pair from A and B but different rabbits. Let's say its like this:

Litter 1 is a doe from the original doe A and a buck from the original doe B.

Litter 2 is a buck from the original doe A and a doe from the original doe B.

Now hopefully - each litter has had at least one double mane in it - and of an opposite sex of the other litter.

You can then breed them together to create double mane lionlops that will throw double mane lionlops (because both parents are double mane).

However, since all the rabbits we're talking about go back to your original 3 rabbits...you are likely (my opinion only - Pam Nock can set us both straight on this) to have inbred depression. You need to widen the gene pool.

Make sense?

If not....chalk it up to the fact its almost 2 am here..

Peg*

Weetwoo_89 wrote: *


> Peg, you arereally opening up alot of things I hadn't thought of before.
> 
> If you bred my hypothetical holland lop to my (also hypothetical) lionhead, assuming the were pure, would they all be lionlops? Would some be just one or the other? Do the odds increase forgetting lionlops if you bred two lionlops? I would think so, but I just want to check..(I know I seem obsessed, but that situation is really the only one I know of to describe all the questions I have been coming up with.) You guys have been amazing at answering all this!
> RaE


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## Weetwoo_89 (Apr 10, 2007)

At first it was a little mind-bending, but I reread it and I get it now. I really like learning about all this stuff. 

Another tidbit before dinner. I heard that rabbits you breed shouldn't be your pets? Does this mean you shouldn't give them attention and leave them be? Why do people say that? Bad for the rabbits?

Rae


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## aurora369 (Apr 10, 2007)

I think it's more along the lines of don't breed your pet bunny that you picked up at a pet store and think it would be nice to let her have babies. The chances of complications and death are too high to risk with your beloved pet.

Those who have rabbits for the purpose of breeding responsibly should play with them and love them. Just be aware of the risks and have all the resources to handle any problems that could arise.

I think that general message is supposed to be: "If you are going to breed, be responsible and buy good quality stock for that purpose. Don't breed your pet."

--Dawn


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## TinysMom (Apr 10, 2007)

I think the whole "don't breed your pet" thing comes from this.

Every time a doe gets pregnant - there is a risk. Slight risk..yes.Usually a very very slight risk. But let's face it - something can gowrong.

If you breed your pet and something does go wrong - you run the risk of losing her.

Once again - the risk is minimal - but it is there. It would be a shame to lose a beloved pet because you bred her on a whim.

GingerSpice was my first female rabbit. I didn't buy her for the purpose of breeding - I bought her as a pet. But several breeders told me I "should" breed her - and I went ahead and did so. I can go back almost to the day when I saw changes in her health - and it was when she was almost ready to wean the kits.

It just seemed to do something to her immunity system and from then on she had one thing after another go wrong...to the point that she died this spring - less than 2 years old.

I believe in my heart that had I not bred her...she would still be alive today and VERY healthy.

I have some rabbits that I look at and watch and even though they may have beautiful type....there is something about them that I just won't sell them to breeders. They probably would breed just fine...I don't know. Its sort of a gut feeling. Others - I know would do fine and I'm ok with selling them. They just seem hardier. I can't explain it because I can't say, "well..they look like this" or 'they act like that". 

I love all of my rabbits- I have some that are pets and some that are kept more for breeding. Some of my does that I've bought for breeding -have turned into pets for me and they won't leave here. Sometimes it is because they're sweet - sometimes its because they're mean (only in one case - and she is mean 'cause she's scared and I'm winning her over).

Peg


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## Weetwoo_89 (Apr 10, 2007)

You are full to the brim with bunny things I have often wondered about. You win a cookie! I always thought that maybe treating the breeding buns like pets might somehow cause them harm (Don't ask me why, it seems absurd to think that, and I did!) But instead, it is to protect from heartbreak.Niffty. 

Rae


P.S. I thought I would share a tidbit, my friends have divided: Those that embrace my obsession with bunnies, and those who think I am crazy and tell me that bunnies are messy/stink/poo everywhere/etc. I just think it is funny that I have divided my group. ^.^'


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## clarzoo (Apr 11, 2007)

> P.S. I thought I would share a tidbit, my friends have divided: Those that embrace my obsession with bunnies, and those who think I am crazy and tell me that bunnies are messy/stink/poo everywhere/etc. I just think it is funny that I have divided my group. ^.^




Yup! Some people just don't get it. But I am converting my roomate. She's claimed Mokey from my current litter of fuzzy lops as 'hers' and says she wants to show her for me. She said she saw a commercial over the Easter weekend and was happy to say she could identify the rabbit breed in it!! (a dutch) I am proud of her, lol!!


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