# My Bunny's Ears are Dying!



## Aliena (Jun 15, 2007)

My little bunny Alaska has had such a bad start to life, first having had a bad case of enteritis (which most of you know) and now she has a problem with her ears. The tips of her ears are going black and hard and are getting infected. We've been to the vet and apparantly her circulation is so bad that the bloods not getting to her ears and the tissue is dying. She is on Baytril for the infection (I know, it's supposedly bad for young bunnies but what else do I do?) but the vet said all the medications used for circulation aren't approved for rabbits (what's new).

I don't know what to do!!! People are starting to suggest that I put her down but I can't bear to do that. She is the cutest thing ever, loves to run around my room (wee's EVERYWHERE) and when I enter the room she comes running over to me and stands up on her back feet tolook up at me.

I have spoken to a couple of breeders in New Zealand and some of them have come across this before and say that it is genetic and is really, really rare (and I think those bunnies that had this died).

I am really stuck. I'm running out of ideas and options (not to mention money) and I just don't know what to do.


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## naturestee (Jun 15, 2007)

Hi Aliena, I was talking to Minilops about this last night.

From the sound of it I don't think there's any way to improve the circulation in the ears. They're just too thin to get good blood flow. But is it possible to amputate the ears? I'm not sure if she's capable of surviving surgery or not, but IMO that's probably the best option. That's what they do for human diabetes patients whose extremeties (usually the feet) don't get enough circulation and start dying. Otherwise, the infection can spread throughout the rest of the body and be fatal.

So my advice is to talk to the vet about amputating the ears. Even if it's a long shot for her to survive a surgery, it's better than what will happen without the surgery. Also talk to her about possibly using stronger antibiotics. Oral Baytril (I assume it's oral?) can only do so much. Injected medications such as penicillan might do more in preventing the infection from spreading to the rest of the body.

In all honesty, euthanasia might be necessary. But talk to the vet about amputating the ears first. If that can't be done, you'll have to decide how long you want to wait because it probably will be necessary. It's a hard choice, but it might be best to end her pain before it becomes too bad.

Please keep us updated. *hugs*


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## Aliena (Jun 15, 2007)

Thanks. I will talk to the vet about amputation although the vet said something about if it was her heart that was causing the problem (by not pumping the blood around properly) then there would be no point amputating because that wouldn't fix her heart (if that was the problem). Her ears seem to be a bit sore but she is so happy that I don't want to end her life just yet. She is currently sitting on the lap of my giant teddy bear in the sunshine in my room, it's so cute! She is brighter each day and is getting back to her mischievious self - tipping her pellets everywhere, chewing on things and tearing things up. I sure hope I don't have to euthanaise.


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## buck rogers (Jun 16, 2007)

I hope the vet finds a way to help your bunny. 
Good luck the two of you.


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## Aliena (Jun 16, 2007)

Thanks, I hope so too. She is such a cutie, has been running around my bedroom floor all day. She has become my little best friend.


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## ellissian (Jun 16, 2007)

Good luck, I hope you find a vet who is able to treat Alaska.


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## rabb1tmad (Jun 16, 2007)

Oh I'm so sorry to hear this. I hope you can find a way to help Alaska. Rabbits can survive without their ears. If you look at the 'yummy chew' piccie here you will see a rabbit without ears. 

http://www.vagavalley.co.uk/bunnysupplies/chews.htm

Fingers and everything crossed for you.


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## luvthempigs (Jun 16, 2007)

Sorry your bun is having these problems.

I was watching animal rescue on animal planet last night and there was a kitten with this type of problem. At first they thought someone had mutilated her but it was a circulation problem. Her ears were gone as well as her tail :shock:They did manage to help her but I'm not sure what they did (cleaned up whatwas left ofthe ears and tail and then put her on some type of medication I suppose)

Since you are so attached to her and she seems to be active and happy I would seek out another opinion from a rabbit knowledgeable vet.


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## Aliena (Jun 16, 2007)

The vet I've got is the best I can find. I have another appointment tomorrow and hopefully she will come up with a plan of action.


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## ellissian (Jun 16, 2007)

Good luck!


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## luvthempigs (Jun 16, 2007)

I didn't mean to imply that your vet wasn't good just that a second opinion might be a good thing 

Good luck and please keep us posted!


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## tamsin (Jun 17, 2007)

Hiya,

Rabbits can do fine without their ears  I know quite a few owners with ear-less bunnies. It's not uncommon for a female rabbit to be disturbed and mutilate her babies by chewing their ears. They look a little odd but don't seem to have any other problems. Rabbits do use their ears to regulate their temperature so you might need to be extra careful in hot weather she doesn't over heat.

I don't know any bunnies that have had that condition but I do know of an english lop (one of those bunnies with foot long ears) that had several inches off the end of each ear amputated and healed up fine.

Not sure what the rules are in AU but here it's sometimes possible to use medication not licenced for a particular pet if that's the most appropriate treatment and you sign a waver. Usually it's done for meds that have been tested in bunnies but not gone through the (expensive) approval process.

Tam


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## Aliena (Jun 17, 2007)

Thanks for that. I think the reason the vet was hesitant to talk about amputation was because she said the problem might be to do with her heart in which case there is no point amputating her ears because if its her heart then she might lose the circulation in her feet next, etc. BUT after talking to other people I think it might just be her ears and so I will see about getting them taken off, I don't want them to become gangrenous (sp) and spread throughout her body. I imagine that an operation like that would cost a heck of a lot right? Don't know how I will afford it.

I have also noticed the last two days that she gets a big wet patch on one side of her mouth/cheek. The first time I saw it I thought she had an abscess that had burst but I couldn't feel anything and then it dryed up but today it happened again so I think she might be drooling? In which case she could have a problem with her teeth, which would explain why she grinds them so often. If problems like this keep cropping up I don't know what I'm going to do because I cannot afford to keep paying for treatment but at the same time she is such a cheerful little thing that I would feel so cruel putting her to sleep. You know last night she managed to jump out of the cage she is in and the sides are 46cm high! I couldn't believe it, she is such a tiny little thing.


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## luvthempigs (Jun 17, 2007)

When ever I have had to have surgeries on any of my pets the vet was always really good about letting me make payments. 

It took me a year to pay off my balance for one of my guinea pigs who had to have surgery (there were complications and several trips to the vet) but he made it and is happy and healthy today which made it worth it


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## Aliena (Jun 17, 2007)

Well I have been back to my vet and she got another vet to come and have a look and give a second opinion. They kept using the word 'vascularised' which I think was just meaning that there is no blood getting there. The tips of her ears are going black and basically I just have to watch them and eventually the ends will start to fall off. I have to clean them with some anti-bacterial stuff and give her Baytril twice a day so that they don't get infected and get gangrene (although there are already some green spots starting). She ideally needs to be taking an antibiotic that is for anaerobic bacteria (bacteria that don't need oxygen) because that is the kind of bacteria that grows in dead tissue but there aren't any safe ones for rabbits. She can only be on the Baytril for 10 days and then has to stop taking it. She weighs only about 400grams so surgery is not really an option.


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## ellissian (Jun 17, 2007)

Poor baby

Is'nt there another vets in your area you could see for yet another opinion? I was thinking a more experienced vet might be able to help you. It must be terrible for you and her to just wait until the dead bits fall off. As naturestee said I think its worth taking the risk of surgery than risking the infection spreading.

As you will already know griding her teeth indicates pain. Is she on pain meds?

I really feel for you and hope things work out for baby Alaska, she's lucky to have someone who cares for her like you do.


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## Aliena (Jun 17, 2007)

I don't think the teeth grinding is meaning painin this case and she is doing it less and less. She really can't have surgery when she is as tiny as she is and is not in good health, I don't think she would survive it. And trust me, there are no other vets, this is as good as it gets. I just have to wait and hope.


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## ellissian (Jun 17, 2007)

I know surgery is risky for all our small animals.

Just out of interest how much does she weigh?


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## Aliena (Jun 17, 2007)

Around 400 grams, and she's only put on one gram since about Thursday. I'm having trouble putting weight on her.


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## tamsin (Jun 17, 2007)

400g? That's tiny! How old is she?

For weight gain I recommend porridge oats which you can mix with water until they make a mush. They're great for putting weight on a rabbit. Introduce them gradually  You could also try vegetarian baby food.

If her circulation is the cause of the trouble, I wonder if regularly massaging her extremities (feet/tail/ears) would help? I haven't read it but there is a book on rabbit massage here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0595310621/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## NZminilops (Jun 18, 2007)

The bunny is just a little baby, correct me if I'm wrong Aliena but I believe she is coming up 8 weeks old?


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## Aliena (Jun 18, 2007)

I rub her ears all the time but some of it is already hard and dead and once the tissue is dead it can't come back to life  She weighs 400g because she had enteritis and lost tons of weight. She has become incredibly fussy and the only things she really eats is banana, kiwifruit, grass and stuff I pick from the garden like dock, puha, dandelions and plantain but dad mowed the lawns and now there's none  She has pellets which I do see her eating and rolled oats which she has had a tiny nibble of. Before she got sick she used to love rolled oats but won't eat them now. I've tried babyfood too but she won't eat that and when you syringe things into her mouth she just lets it fill up and then run down the sides. She has hay which I do see her eating and she likes spinach too. I just came back from the supermarket with treats like alfalfa and craisins and she just sniffed and then hopped off to sit in the sun.


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## Aliena (Jun 18, 2007)

She was eight weeks on Friday.


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## Aliena (Jun 18, 2007)

This is Alaska:







And this is one of her ears:











See how it's sort of bent/folded? Well its stuck like that, that is all completely hard.


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## ellissian (Jun 18, 2007)

She is a beautiful rabbit Aliena.

I have a 11 week old baby and I've been told by members of this forum not to feed fruit or veg until he is at least 4 months old.

I'm not trying to criticise you I'm just passing on info I've received. I was also recommeded to use something called Nutra Cal (I think that was the name) to help build my baby up. Maybe it will help Alaska.


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## hunnybunny63 (Jun 18, 2007)

those pictures remind me of the tiem when Daisy bit Dandys ear during a fight. This left Dandy with a small piece of ear hanging off. after jsut half hour of this happening the tissue had died and gone all black.

We managered to get her an apointment at the vets quite soon after though and the vet told us that the only choice was to let her cut it off but Dandy had to be knocked out first because of the pain so we left her there for a few hours and then went to pick her up. Now she has a small part of her ear missing but doesnt seem at all bothered by it!

Hope you can find a soloution for your little bunny!


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## polly (Jun 18, 2007)

She is gorgeous aliena,

i don't know whether this would be any good but ginger is very good for circulation not sure if bunnies can eat it. But it is great in aromatherapy as is lemon. If you can keep her from licking at it 1 drop of each oil in a base oil like calendala (marigold) or olive oil might help the circulation in her ears.


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## ~Bracon~ (Jun 18, 2007)

she is so sweet. Im really sorry to hear about her ears . She's so lucky that she's with someone that cares for her. Fingers crossed that everything goes well

Lots of love from Hannah and Bracon

x x x x x 

x x x x 

x x x 

x x 

x


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## Aliena (Jun 18, 2007)

Thanks for the advice guys. Ellisian, I usually don't give my bubs too many veggies but in her case I think she needs them and it wasn't until I started feeding her lots of grass and greenery that she started to recover from her enteritis. She won't eat much so I think fruit and veg are better than nothing.


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## ellissian (Jun 18, 2007)

I understand Aliena.

I really do hope little Alaska gets well.


Have you tried her with critical care?


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## Aliena (Jun 19, 2007)

We don't have Critical Care in NZ, or Nutri-Cal or any of that. I even scoured the entire supermarket just trying to find canned pumpkin but there was none to be had.


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## hellsmistress (Jun 19, 2007)

*polly wrote: *


> She is gorgeous aliena,
> 
> i don't know whether this would be any good but ginger is very good for circulation not sure if bunnies can eat it. But it is great in aromatherapy as is lemon. If you can keep her from licking at it 1 drop of each oil in a base oil like calendala (marigold) or olive oil might help the circulation in her ears.


ginger is fine for rabbits, if you can get them to eat it . The best option would be to grate up some ginger and boil about a teaspoonful in a couple of cups of water. Let it boil until its got a good colour and a good gingery taste then strain and syringe feed. probably about 2-3ml at a time. As a treatment for bloat its recomended to be fed every 30 mins until the gas/bloating is relieved but as a circlatory stimulant i would think maybe 2 or 3 times a day.


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## hellsmistress (Jun 19, 2007)

*Aliena wrote: *


> We don't have Critical Care in NZ, or Nutri-Cal or any of that. I even scoured the entire supermarket just trying to find canned pumpkin but there was none to be had.


unfortunately we dont have those things in aus either, i find that instead of canned pumpkin, pumpkin and sweetcorn baby food works well. Also acidophilus tablets from your local chemist seem to help a litte. If shes not eating properlymaybe she just needs to be tempted. Fennel and Dill seem to be favourites around my rabbitry and i believe they are appitite stimulants as well as helping with the chest area. anyway might help her apetite.

Chantel


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## Pipp (Jun 19, 2007)

*ellissian wrote: *


> I have a 11 week old baby and I've been told by members of this forum not to feed fruit or veg until he is at least 4 months old.


That's actually not really true. Bringing a baby home from a breeder or pet store and immediately feeding veggies is a problem, but if a bunny has been eating it's mother's food and the mom was eating veggies, no problem. 

If they were raised on pellets, though, you have to introduced veggies very slowly one at a time in very small quanties to make sure they don't have a gas reaction and/or disturb their gut flora balance.

Aliena, you can make your own pumpkin just by boiling and pureeing it, or just use the baby food. 

If she's eating hay and grass (I'd find more of what you had been feeding her pre-mow) and spinach, that's a good diet. 

You may also want to try slowly introducing a few sunflower seeds. 

She may haveSBS at this point -- a problem I've got with mine. Spoiled bunny syndrome. With all the food being offered, she's holding out for 'the good stuff.'



sas


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## Aliena (Jun 19, 2007)

Tried sunflower seeds but she won't eat them even though she used to before she got sick. She seems to enjoy a food and then after a while doesn't want it anymore and sometimes I give her something and she gets all excited and buries her nose in it but doesn't actually eat anything. I think she does have spoiled bunny syndrome. She ate some tissue before, when I was mopping up the wee's she did on my carpet 

I think in the future I'm going to give my baby bunnies lots of green food when they first start on solids but are still drinking heaps from mum, it really seemed to be a key thing with getting Alaska back to health and if it's good for bunnies in the wild then surely its beneficial to domestics.

A rabbit breeder I know sent me an email today about this ear problem, she had got in touch with a cat breeder, apparantly cats can suffer this ear dying thing too and it's called Neonatal Irythrolysis. The info she sent me was:

"This blood incompatibility in animals (other animals have this problem also) is called Neonatal Irythrolysis (or NI for short). The problem occurs when you have a Type B Queen mated to a Type A male. During pregnancy the Queen's system develops antibodies which will destroy Type A blood. The kittens are ok until they are born. It is when they suckle the colostrum (first milk) from the Mother after birth that they receive the antibodies. If the kitten is an `A' blood type it is in danger of either dying, usually within three days (this is sometimes put down to fading kitten syndrome) or the extremities dying off (tail tip dying - or in more severe cases most of the tail dying). I have to say that I have not heard of feet or ears being affected, but I suppose this could happen. The "B" type kittens will be unaffected as the antibodies do not affect their blood."

Does that sound like it could be what is wrong with Alaska? If it is then you'd think it would have started at a younger age, not at seven and a half weeks.


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## Bangbang (Jun 19, 2007)

Hey there, I live in Australia we have nutragel (nutrigel) here, ask you vet if they have it or can get it in... not sure if its available in NZ but i would have thought so


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## ellissian (Jun 19, 2007)

I'm sorry pipp but I was only repeating the info I was told here.

Milly is a very gassey bun so I'm still holding off for now. He's not very happy when I feed the guineas pigs their veg, he always trys begging for some!


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## Sugar N Spice (Jun 19, 2007)

I'm so sorry about Alaska...I hope you find a solution.

:?


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## gentle giants (Jun 19, 2007)

I don't know if this would be an option or not, but might it be possible to try removing her ears with a local anastetic? (sp?) I don't have have any idea how long or how difficult a surgery like that would be, mabye do one at a time because obviously she would have to be restrained.....


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## ellissian (Jun 19, 2007)

And to be a little bit sedated, maybe?


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## Pipp (Jun 19, 2007)

*ellissian wrote: *


> I'm sorry pipp but I was only repeating the info I was told here.
> 
> Milly is a very gassey bun so I'm still holding off for now. He's not very happy when I feed the guineas pigs their veg, he always trys begging for some!



Yes, it's a very common piece of advice, I think that people misinterpreted the HRS caution, or it was boiled down to an easy one-liner. Best to err on the side of caution! 

sas


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## Aliena (Jun 21, 2007)

Well we are going back to the vet this afternoon. My vet told me to ring today when the ab's are finished but when I rang she wasn't there so I spoke to another vet. That vet wants to see her (so I'll be getting a third opinion which is good) and did mention the slight possibility of amputation over the phone but I'm not sure if she'll go for that when she sees how small Alaska is. Anyway, I'm really hoping we will be able to do something about her ears instead of just watching and waiting.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Jun 21, 2007)

Great you're getting a third opinion! You'll have vets to choose from, how nice that will be.

Good Luck!


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## buck rogers (Jun 21, 2007)

Fingers crossed you find a solution to this problem.


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## Aliena (Jun 22, 2007)

Thanks, the good thing is that I'm pretty sure the vet I'm seeing is the one that does all the surgery so she probably knows the most about amputation and the like.


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## ellissian (Jun 22, 2007)

Good Luck, I will have my fingers crossed.


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## LuvaBun (Jun 22, 2007)

I hope this vet can come up with a solution. Alaska is such a sweet little thing. I will be keeping you in my thoughts1

Jan


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## Aliena (Jun 22, 2007)

Well, the vet was great. She is pretty stumped still but she is going to ring Massey University down south and see if they have a rabbit expert that might know more about it. Massey seems to be the place where all the experts are. She also talked about amputation but we wouldn't be able to do that at this point because Alaska is so tiny and is not in prime health, I don't think she would bounce back very well after surgery.

Now I have one more problem - I took both of Alaska's siblings with me to the vets because I noticed one of them has her teeth growing badly and sure enough she has maloclussion, her bottom teeth are overlapping her top teeth. The vet says it isn't bad and her teeth must still be wearing down because otherwise they would be much longer. She had a home to go to but I doubt now that they will want her (and fair enough). The doe that had these kits has had lots of litters in the past and the kits have all been 100% healthy and now I've mated her to this buck that I haven't used before and they have ended up all wrong. None of their ears have lopped properly, Alaska's ears are dying and now one of them has malocclusion, OMG!


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## Flashy (Jun 22, 2007)

I believe, but could be wrong, that as bunnies get older they can produce more 'deformed' litters, so maybe your bun is too old to breed now.

As for the teeth, try giving lots of wood and minerals to chew, because someone I know sorted out her buns malocculsion a great deal by giving it things to chew.

There is a website called Vaga Valley that sells rabbit stuff on it, and it has little videos on it. One of the bunnies they use for the videos has no ears (the mum bit them off at birth), and I just thought you might want to google it to check out what an earless rabbit looks like. (some beat me to it, lol)


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## Celestial Wind (Jun 22, 2007)

I am so sorry you are having all these problems...But keep your head up and stay positive and we all will help you get through this.


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## Aliena (Jun 22, 2007)

Thanks guys, I will get some chews and things for the baby with bad teeth, she is really fat and healthy at the moment so they obviously aren't affecting her too badly, just have to hope they don't get worse. The lady who was going to take her says she would probably still like her. The good thing is she is training to be a vet nurse and has been taught how to trim their teeth and things.

Their mum is only about 2 1/2 so I wouldn't think she is that old, this is only the second litter she has had with me, the first was way back in October and they were all perfectly healthy. She hasn't been overbred or anything and I think most of the problem may lie with the buck, after I got him from the breeder (who was selling off all her stock) I then heard from other breeders that alot of her stock had health problems. 

As itis my cousin got a doe from the same place at the same time, we had the two for a year and then both rehomed them, her doe got sick and had to be put down just after she rehomed it and my boy was only in his new home for a month and then had to come back, within about three days of being back he suddenly (in the space of about an hour) got a major inner ear infection that was so bad he had to be put down. I think that they both may have had something wrong with them that was lying dormant and I guess the moving must have brought it out.

Anyway, now I just want monday to come around when I will hear back from the vet. It would be nice to know what is causing Alaska's ear problem.


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## Aliena (Jun 23, 2007)

Well I got some chew toys, now I just gotta get her to chew them! Only her mum seems interested. I have also been in touch with the lady who was going to have her and she still wants her so that is a relief. This will be her 12th rabbit! Wow, I thought I had lots. But she takes good care of them all and she is a vet nurse in training so I know that the bunny will get the best care. Now just gotta sort out Alaska's ears. 

I got up at four in the morning last night to refil Alaska's hot water bottles and when I went to hop back in bed I could hear her chewing on the bars of the door of her cage. She chewed for 45 minutes!!! Until eventually I gave up and let her out. I don't usually like having her running around when I'm in bed not watching her butI was sooo tired and there was nothing on the ground that she could chew on. Naughty girl, I hope she is not so noisy tonight.


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## LuvaBun (Jun 23, 2007)

*Aliena wrote:*


> I got up at four in the morning last night to refil Alaska's hot water bottles and when I went to hop back in bed I could hear her chewing on the bars of the door of her cage. She chewed for 45 minutes!!! Until eventually I gave up and let her out. I don't usually like having her running around when I'm in bed not watching her butI was sooo tired and there was nothing on the ground that she could chew on. Naughty girl, I hope she is not so noisy tonight.


Ha! Now she has you wrapped around her little paw. Just wait, you could be in for a lot of sleepless nights 

Jan


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## neri18 (Jun 23, 2007)

Pip does the same thing to me. He knows exactly how to get what he wants by making noise and not letting me sleep. He knows I'll do just about anything to keep him quiet at night. Silly bunnies.


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## Aliena (Jun 23, 2007)

Well last night when I was putting her hotties back in she started chewing but I kept picking her up and moving her away a couple of times and she stopped. Then she stayed quiet until 7.30 when she started up the chewing again so I let her out.


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## Aliena (Jun 25, 2007)

Well the vet called and said she had spoken to a specialist who didn't know much either but they want to do a biopsy on her ear. That requires aneasthetic though so we are going to wait a few weeks until she is a better weight.


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## Henxy (Jul 2, 2007)

Is there any news on poor Alaska?


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## Bunnicula (Jul 2, 2007)

Aliena,

Your sweet Alaska is so beautiful. Her story makes me cry. My bunnies, kitties, & I are all keeping her in our thoughts. Please post an update...we are so anxious to know how she is.

You may not be able to find a cure to make your bunny totally healthy...but your love makes her happy. We've struggled in our home with many special needs animals, and I believe that when I could do nothing more but love them I was doing all I could. Love may not cure a disease...but it makes life with disease bearable!

Wishing you the best,

Mary Ellen


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## Aliena (Jul 3, 2007)

Thanks for your support. Alaska is doing well, her ears are getting a bit more mishapen but the 'frostbite' sort of thing doesn't appear to be spreading. She is definitely putting on weight now which is wonderful, hopefully I will be able to get her to a healthy size so she can have surgery although the finances are a bit tight so it will have to wait until I have some more money anyway.

She seems to be pretty happy and loves to eat although she's not all that active, seems to prefer just to sit back and relax. She has a new cage now too, one of those NIC ones and she has her very own electric blanket so I don't have to get up in the night to fill her hotties.

Here she is:







And here she is sitting in front of her new cage:






The blue blanket on the bottom left is usually on that shelf but it had a couple of babies wrapped in it, the bubs are two and a half weeks old and come inside to play sometimes. Alaska wasn't sure what to make of them at first because one just wants to snuggle underneath her but the other likes to binky around the floor and Alaska is starting to join in now and they play chase, its really cute.


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## Bunnicula (Jul 3, 2007)

So glad to get the update!

Little bunny friends may be what Alaska needs to help keep her happy and healthy. I know that when Stewart was suffering with the respiratory symptoms of his illness, Gingivere was the gal by his side. She kept him interested and happy. They were so deeply bonded.

It's great that Alaska is putting on some weight. What do you have her eating now? I know how hard it can be to get a sick rabbit to eat. We recently went through that with Pipkin. Like you, I knew there were things that would just make his stomach upset worse...but it broke my heart when he turned his nose up at EVERYTHING. And I did offer all I could think of that wouldn't be toxic.

Hang in there. Alaska is a doll and you are making her life a good one.

Keep updating us with any news!

Mary Ellen


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## Aliena (Jul 3, 2007)

At the moment she has pellets, rolled oats and gumnuts always available although I'm starting to cut back on the rolled oats. She also gets given mesclun, alfalfa, grass, dandelions and dock a couple of times a day (but only one at a time, not the whole lot together). She also gets things like weetbix and ryvita crackers but not every day and she gets banana as a treat. She is eating really well now but only really likes leafy vegetables, no carrots, broccoli, snow peas, etc.

If one of those two babies is a doe then I will keep her and she can live with Alaska.


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## Bunnicula (Jul 3, 2007)

The leafy greens are probably the best thing for her (along with some timothy hay), so she has good judgement. 

Glad that she is eating and growing stronger.


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## Aliena (Jul 3, 2007)

Oh yeah, I forgot she has hay at all times. Not sure what kind it is, I don't know what stuff we have in NZ.


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## LuvaBun (Jul 3, 2007)

Great news that she is doing better - she really is a precious little girl. Love her new cage as well 

Jan


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## m.e. (Jul 3, 2007)

I just have to say that I think Alaska is so incredibly lucky to have a caretaker like you :hug:


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## Aliena (Jul 7, 2007)

Well I went to the vet last night with another rabbit (which ended up being nothing serious) and we talked about Alaska - it's going to cost $300!!!!! for the surgery!!!!! And there is no way on earth I can afford that at the moment but the vet said it's not essential so I can wait. 

Meanwhile Alaska's back legs seem to be very weak. She is bulking up around her front shoulder/chest area but her hips/back legs are still really thin. She was trying to wash her face today with two paws but she kept losing her balance so had to keep one front paw on the ground. And if she trips over something (like a power cord or something really small) her back end falls over, she gets up real quick but she is obviously losing muscle strength for some reason.

She tries to binky but isn't very good at it because she falls overa bit but if she's trying to binky that means she's happy right? So I'm not being cruel by keeping her alive?


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## Pipp (Jul 7, 2007)

*Aliena wrote: *


> She tries to binky but isn't very good at it because she falls overa bit but if she's trying to binky that means she's happy right? So I'm not being cruel by keeping her alive?


She's keeping herself alive. She sounds like a very happy bunny.I think she's enjoying life, and you're obviously enjoying her being around.You just have to take it one day at a time and consider each one a blessing.

I don't think I'd be spending $300 on surgery until you know EXACTLY what her other problems are. Especially if they're related to the ear thing. Hasshe hadxrays? The vet mentioned apossible heart issue, was that explored further? 

Give her a kiss on the sweet little nose for me. :bunnieskiss

sas :hug1


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## ra7751 (Jul 7, 2007)

Hi,

Thought I would chime in on this one. First, you mentioned treating anaerobic bacteria. We treat abscesses all the time and they are full of anaerobic bacteria. There are numerous drugs that can be used safely in a rabbit to deal with those type of bugs. A little disclaimer here...I am not suggesting that anyone attempt to use these drugs except under the advice of a real doctor. In treating abscesses we usually use a combination of Procaine (Penicillin G) and Azithromycin (Zithromax). There is another drug that is awesome...but it does carry some serious side effects...not so much for the rabbit, but for the human administering the drug. It's Chloramphenicol. It has been linked to some serious stuff in humans so gloves, long sleeves and a face mask would be in order when giving this drug. These are not drugs to play with. They must be used at the proper time and administered in the proper fashion. Failure to do so usually results in the death of the rabbit. Again, don't play with these drugs.

The stumbling and falling are leading me to believe there is much more to the story that has been detected. I suspect something is going on in the middle and/or inner ear. Lacking evidence of trauma, an ear infection is the most likely cause of this concern. And if only the rear legs are affected, I am very concerned that it might be the first stages of E Cuniculi. With a bun with EC, the immune system is totally overwhelmed in an effort to control the protozoan infection...so much that it allows some of the opportunisitic harmful bacteria to invade and all sorts of unusual things can occur. That is why many people blame head tilt (wry neck) on EC when it is not actually directly caused by the EC. It is also possible that considering the vets think she has a circulatory problem, that she might have suffered the rabbit version of a stroke (they don't have strokes like we think of...they have vascular accidents). If the problem is caused by circulatory issues, you would probably notice a decline in motor skills over time. If it's EC, you would notice neurological issues (like the stumbling) that seem to correct themselves as the immune system mounts a response but then they come back worse and get little better but the overall picture declines.

Just wondering....has a culture or at least a cytology been performed on any debris in those ears? Has a skin scraping anddiag been performed on the problem area? Long term use of antibiotics can lead to a yeast infection...especially in lops. The problem is even worse in Holland Lops due to the small size of the ear canal and that prevents good ventilation which presents a prime breeding ground for problems. And personally, Baytril doesn't do much anymore thru misuse. I will say that if the bacteria is sensitive to Baytril, you are much more likely to get a positive response if Baytril is injected sub-q rather than given by mouth. In some cases, it seems the pH in the gut has had a negative effect on the workings of Baytril. In the extremely rare times I use Baytril...it's injected.

We also see something like this in opossums. It's called Crispy Ear and the ear just erodes away and falls off. Some have tied in to humidity levels but recent research links it to inbreeding. Since we have two unrelated opossums living in the same room...one with CE and the other doesn't have it, I suspect inbreeding is involved. We see some really unusual stuff with inbreeding as I have a prime example of an inbred rabbit here in my rescue.

Needless to say, there seem to be many more questions here than answers. Ask you vet to log on to the internet. There are several networks available to them that link them to other vets all over the world that post abut issues like this and might have encountered this condition. 

Randy


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## Aliena (Jul 7, 2007)

Wow, thanks for all that info. My vet has been trying to get info from other people and has contacted the university and said she has also been in touch with some expertin Australia who suggested it could be a whole lot of things but they need to do a biopsy first.

They haven't tested the tissue of her ears yet, that's what the surgery is supposed to be for, they want to doa biopsy and amputate at the same time but she is underweight and might not survive the surgery and I can't afford the $300.

They have looked inside her ears and said there was no sign of infection or mites.

She hasn't been on antibiotics for quite a few weeks now and her ears aren't getting any worse, they have just stayed the same.

Her back legs seem to be thinner than the front which was why I thought it might be that her muscles are being affected, they seem to be weak. Like, I can push her back end and she tries to resist but isn't really strong enough, that's why I thought it was just a weakness but I see what your saying and I will obviously have to talk to the vet about it. 

Alaska did exhibit this stumbling type thing way back in the beginning when she was first sick but then it went away so I guess it could be E. Cuniculi then. My biggest trouble is that my money is now practically gone, she's cost me hundreds all ready and I don't want to completely dry up my money because I still have all my other rabbits to take care of (plus I have to feed myself).


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## Raspberry82 (Jul 25, 2007)

Hi Aliena  How is your Alaska doing? Did you find out anything more from the vet's research about her condition? Wishing you both the best! urplepansy:


Athy


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## NZminilops (Aug 12, 2007)

Aliena has moved and doesn't have internet access where she is, but she says Alaska is doing well .


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## Aliena (Aug 25, 2007)

An update for anyone who is interested:

Alaska is now four months old (who would have thought she'd make it this far!) and is doing well. She is still small (looks about 12 week old size) but has put on a lot of weight. She can't walk properly and scuffs her feet but she seems to have adapted to this and can climb ramps, jump up on boxes, etc. She still pee's everywhere (although slightly better) and does a lot of mushy cecals which I haven't managed to put a stop too.

She is now living with two other does aged nine weeks (I mentioned them awhile back) and the three of them all get on really well. I have moved house and where I live there is what used to be a studio/dark roomseparate to the house which is all fully insulated, etc. and the three girls are living in there with their electric blanket and all their bits and bobs.

Also, her ears have lopped and the tips have fallen off (about 1-1.5cm off each ear) and it looks much better, almost normal if you don't look too closely.

Now I would really like to get her spayed as she seems to have hit puberty but I am not sure how she'd cope with surgery so might just have to leave it.


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## naturestee (Aug 25, 2007)

I'm so glad to hear she is doing well! Way to go Alaska!

As for the spay, consult with the vet, do full bloodwork, and make sure they check her heart and lungs. If everything comes back normal then you could consider it. Although personally I'd be worried that with her ears and her movement problems that something internal might be not quite right also. :?


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## Leaf (Aug 25, 2007)

You're doing a wonderful job!


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## LuvaBun (Aug 28, 2007)

I am so pleased that she is doing so well. Good job on helping her through everything 



Jan


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## Pipp (Oct 7, 2007)

Aliena, how's Alaska? 

Hope all is well with all.. :sunshine:



sas :bunnydance:


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## NZminilops (Oct 7, 2007)

Last I heard, Alaska is still doing very well. She has remained a tiny bunny, but seems to be happy and healthy. I will let Aliena know you were enquiring about her .


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