# URGENT HELP (doing much better)



## Gezabella09 (May 13, 2010)

Chop is a 1 year old Netherland dwarf.
He is about 7 pounds.
He eats pellets and Timothy Hay.

He came out yesterday as normal for his run around and I cleaned his cage.
Yesterday night I took home out for bedtime cuddles on the bed. He p ed everywhere within minutes so I out him back in his house.

This morning when I went to see him he was totally listless - just lying there. Not eaten any of the food I had put in his cage yesterday -not touched his hay - cant tell if he has drunk ( although normally I can hear him going at his water bottle and can't recall hearing that this am. )
I out some food to his mouth in a pile on the floor and he just pushed it away.
I picked him up and he just let me as normal but I flipped him over to cradle him no problem ( and normally he will squirm like anything if you try to put him on his back. )
His eyes seemed totally lifeless but his little heart as still beating away.
Normally when we go see him in the am he goes bounding round the cage like a mad thing. 
I put him back in his cage and he is still 3 hours later in the same position. Still not eating but I have put a little bowel of water in his cage to make drinking easier and I think he has had some of that. All he is doing is hiding in his house and shuffling a bit like his does when he wants to get comfy.

Over the past few weeks he has had poopy butt on and off so I have cut right back on the pellets and been pushing the hay. He has never been a fresh food bun as it always gives his a case of the poos so I have just accepted he will never be a fresh eating bun!
His eyes are slightly red as well but other than that he looks totally normal and was up until yesterday night.

I have an appt for the vet at 7.20 pm - it's now 2.43pm and am waiting for my boyfriend to come down and take us as I don't drive. The vet have said just to come whenever and they will squeeze us in which is good.

But does anyone have any advise or ideas of what could be happening as I have spend all morning bawling my eyes out thinking he is going to die!!!!:sosad:sosad


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## Pipp (May 13, 2010)

Please keep him very warm and as stress free as possible. If you have a bean or rice sock you can warm in the microwave and wrap with towels, put that in with him ASAP. 

If warms up and livens up a bit you can try giving him fluids.


sas ray:


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## Pipp (May 13, 2010)

He could be having a gas attack, or an unchecked infection, or many other things. 

Was his peeing everywhere unusual? That could signal a urinary tract infection.

If he seems to be shuffling -- lying on his stomach and shifting -- that's usually a sign of gas, although the gas can be a byproduct. 

Is the poopy butt recent? Does it seem to be diet related? Did he eat anything that may have given him gas? 

Again, keeping him warm is key. 

Long tummy massages are also helpful as is a gas medicine containing simethicone. 

If he's drinking, the fluids aren't as important. If you do try to give him some, make sure they're warm. 

Don't try and feed him. 


sas :clover:


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## Gezabella09 (May 13, 2010)

Was his peeing everywhere unusual? That could signal a urinary tract infection 
*** He used to be quite the p er but of late he totally stopped. I did think it odd when he did it.

If he seems to be shuffling -- lying on his stomach and shifting -- that's usually a sign of gas, although the gas can be a byproduct. 
***It is like he is shifting from one paw to the other while in his infamous cow pat position as we call it and looks like he is trying to get comfy. I've felt his belly though when I picked him up and it's all soft and squishy?

Is the poopy butt recent? Does it seem to be diet related? Did he eat anything that may have given him gas? 
*** We have taken him to the vet about his poo before and she seemed to think it was diet related so we cut back on the pellets and made the decision to stop feeding him fresh food. For the last while though everything has come out mushy - you can tell as cecal from a normal but it tends to be really mushy. We have cut back on the pellets tho again since the last onset of poopy butt but still the poo!! 

Again, keeping him warm is key. 
*** I've made him a rice sock and heated it up an put it in his house with him. He is sat cuddled up to it licking his front paws.

Long tummy massages are also helpful as is a gas medicine containing simethicone. 

If he's drinking, the fluids aren't as important. If you do try to give him some, make sure they're warm. 

Don't try and feed him. 

**** Thanks so much for your help - im sat here like a gibbering wreck - the poor little devil is my best friend and well if anything happens to him it would be horrid!!!


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## Pipp (May 13, 2010)

Netherland Dwarfs aren't seven lbs, btw, so something is wrong there! 

If he didn't appear to be 'leaking' or straining to pee, or have blood in his urine, white pasty looking stuff or anything like that, that is good. 

It does sound like a gas attack. If you try a tummy massage and (after the initial shock) he seems to like it, gas is a good bet. 

What brand of pellets is he getting? Have you tried other brands? How much hay does he eat? Are you sure fresh food causes problems? Have you tried him on grass? 


sas :?


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## Inle_Rabbitry (May 13, 2010)

Is it possible that he may have gotten into some kind of chemical or poison while he was out running around the day before?


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## Gezabella09 (May 13, 2010)

Soooo.
Been to the vet and he is like a different bunnikins to say I'm relived is an understatement.
Been crying with joy all evening!!!
The vet has given him 4 injections - Metoclopramide, Metacam, Zantac and Baytril
We have been given Zantac Syrup and Oxbow critical care fine grind to take home. And we have to keep an eye on him over night and if he is no better then its back to the vet tomorrow.

Since we have been home ( about 3 hours ) he has been so much better though, he is running about his cage , not as quick as normal , but still so much better than this am....
He has eaten some straw but he has yet to have a drink...

Is it normal for him to take a while to drink... have the vets rehydrated him enough for it not to matter too much?

Thanks in advance for all your help xxxx I think we will be A OK !!:woohoo


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## Gezabella09 (May 13, 2010)

I don't think he could have had any chemicals.. they are all in a cupboard in the bathroom which is out of bounds...
It could have been a rogue bit of food that had fallen onto the floor....


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## Pipp (May 13, 2010)

:yahoo:

I was going to mention that with simple gas attacks, even the car ride can make them feel better.

My guys look like they're dying, but they snap out of it really fast and I usually have them in a carrier and calling a cab and I look inside and they're happily munching on hay! 

I think you need to figure out why he's having the attacks/poopy butt though. 


sas :bunnydance:


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## Gezabella09 (May 13, 2010)

I was thinking that coz poopy bottoms cant be nice for him... He is on only hay at the mo....
Im going to start adding other stuff to his diet in a day or so adding more stuff to try and isolate what makes him poo the pace down


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## tonyshuman (May 13, 2010)

I do think you need to get the poopy butt under control. Has his stool been checked for parasites? Two of the medications your vet prescribed I would not use on a bunny that has runny poop--metoclopramide and Zantac. Actually I would not use Zantac on any bunny. The reason is that Zantac reduces the acidity of the stomach, and usually when a bunny's GI is in distress it needs to be made more acidic, not less. I have found that a lot of vets in the UK seem to give it along with Metacam. That might be because Metacam can damage the stomach if there's no food in there, but I still wouldn't do it.

Also metoclopramide: it's a gut motility drug, which is controversial at first. The also shouldn't be used for diarrhea or poopy butt because those are conditions where the gut is moving too fast, not too slow. I also would not use a gut motility drug unless the vet has taken an abdominal x-ray and determined that there is not an obstruction.

The Baytril is not my drug of choice either for the gut. If he has a bacterial imbalance in his GI tract, Baytril seems to only destroy the good bacteria, not the bad. It is ineffective against anaerobic bacteria, which most of the bad GI bacteria are (clostridium, for example). A much better antibiotic for GI events is metronidazole (Flagyl), because it is better at killing anaerobic bacteria and parasites, and it is anti-inflammatory, which will make the gut less painful.

I think it may have been a gas attack that caused him a lot of pain. The gas could be due to a longer-term parasite infection or GI bacterial imbalance. The treatment for both of these would be metronidazole and a probiotic. Usually in the UK, Bio-Lapis is the probiotic that can be found. I personally would ask for this treatment course. I know that vets in the UK are under different regulations in what they can prescribe when, but it seems to me that the treatment plans prescribed by law or regulations or whatever aren't modern or correct.

It's good that he's only eating hay right now. If he stops, then you can give the critical care. I would add twice as much water to the critical care as it says to, and let it absorb it for a full 10 min before giving it. You also might want to get some Dioralyte (infant rehydration drink) to keep him hydrated--that's really critical in rabbits with any illness. I also would stop the zantac, and give probiotic. If his poop doesn't firm up in a few days of a hay and water only diet, a fecal sample should be checked for parasites, and he probably should be put on metronidazole.


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## ra7751 (May 13, 2010)

:yeahthat:The choice of drugs seems to be a "fire at will" type of treatment. The combination of drugs are almost to the point of being frightening. No attempt to flame a vet here....but this treatment might not be in your rabbit's best interest. Maybe an in depth discussion with your vet regarding this treatment or even maybe a second opinion. Out of everything I see that was done, the only thing I see that is appropriate is possibly the Metacam assuming proper hydration (my non-professional opinion). Gut motility drugs and antacids are not on my list of drugs that I would use in any of my rabbits.

Randy


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## Gezabella09 (May 15, 2010)

So a little update on Choppy.
All is well in bunnyland.

He was still a bit sluggish yesterday and was not up for drinking much yet was happily munching on hay.

We haven't given him any of the Zantac. Instead we are giving the probiotic like you said and unlimitd hay and nothing else.
He is now happily drinking again and even trying to hump my arm so I have just about stopped fretting over him.

With regards to his poopy butt at the moment he is all clear I'm going to maybe on Monday ( or when I can see his poops are nice and big ) is to introduce other thngs into his diet very slowly to see if there is anything that trigers it off and at the first sign of poopy butt it will be another trip to the vet.

I don't know if what she gave his was right or wrong but as it was the first time he has been properly ill she could have done anything - I was in no state to argue when I took him in. 

Looks like we have survived a gas attack - wish I'd know about taking him for a spin the car as it would have saved 68 pounds worth of vet bills - but thats a small price to pay for a back to mornally bunny.

Thank you everyone so much for your help. Chop thans you all too xxxx


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