# Bonding rabbits...hmmmm



## daisyandparsley7 (Jan 25, 2014)

Ok so I was inquiring about volunteering for my local chapter of the house rabbit society and boom I ended up adopting! They have been set side by side for about a week in x pens with three inches of space between them and they were starting to lay and eat by each other. First 2 min face to face the female(Natasha) was shoving her head under neath him. What does this mean? Then ended up grooming each other and then sitting by each other so I ended on that good note. 


Then the second meeting was a little bit rough more biting and not as smooth. I again ended on a good not. 

Third meeting 7 min long Natasha was thumping a lot? What does this mean and also shoving her head under neath him again and pancho was just laying flat and still the entire time. 

I've never bonded before so I am going slow. I have read so many different articles and it seems each one is different. I would just like opinions and especially what does thumping during bonding mean and her shoving her head under his belly. Both are spayed and neutered and about 2 years old. Natasha is a standard chinchilla and pancho a Dutch.


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## Troller (Jan 25, 2014)

Each bonding is different and each is based on the personalities of the rabbit. What worked for me might not work for you, and vice versa. Know your rabbits is the most important thing in my opinion. Read as much as you can about bonding and experiment along the way until you find your own method. 


Thumping can mean a few things. Warning of danger, or a sign of anger. You have some good signs going in so thats a positive. For me dates didnt work, the constant separation always eliminated my progress. Eventually I ended up sticking my two together for a few days while I constantly observed and broke up anything too aggressive until they finally bonded. I had to do two car trips a day with them in one carrier to stress them. Thats what worked for me but there was a lot of trial and error.


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## zombiesue (Jan 25, 2014)

Where are you putting them when you do the face-to-face meetings?


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## JBun (Jan 25, 2014)

The slow bonding method can work for some rabbits, but for others it seems to just cause more problems and issues because the rabbits sort out their dominance and hierarchy issues in the first date, then get separated and have to sort it all out again when they are put back together. You may be better off doing a fast bond. Put them together and keep them together while you closely monitor them for the first few days, even sleeping nearby in case a scuffle occurs. Sometimes it's necessary to intervene, to prevent fights(you do NOT want any fighting), petting and keeping the peace at times. Bonding with some rabbits, can be very tricky and complicated. If a tactic doesn't appear to be working well for your particular buns, don't be afraid to try a different technique.
http://cottontails-rescue.org.uk/bonding-bunnies/

The thumping is probably because one rabbit is upset with the other one. Shoving their head under the other bun is usually a dominance play, trying to get the other rabbit to groom.


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## daisyandparsley7 (Jan 25, 2014)

The face to face is in a neutral area in an xpen. I might try the fast bond because it does to seem that each time I do the face to face it starts the same and then they end up grooming or laying together and I get nervous it's too long and I put them back in their side by sides. They have never shown any real aggression just what I take as try to figure out dominance. Thank you for the feedback!


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## Imbrium (Jan 26, 2014)

I'm a fan of brief "dates" for evaluation purposes - I'm doing them with my three bunns now because I'm periodically checking to see if Normie's done being hormonal and I did them with my most recent sugar glider pairing because for a while, Abby was too high-strung to be willing to give Lemmy a chance (I did periodic face-to-face meetings a few weeks apart and suddenly on the last one, they were agreeable instead of fighting (which had always happened on previous meetings)).

As soon as both animals (or all three, in my current situation) appear ready to bond (ie open to the idea of making a new friend and don't have raging hormones), I greatly prefer "marathon" sessions. While my bunny bonding experience is minimal, I've got quite a bit of sugar glider bonding experience (four pairings and a trio) and the process is remarkably similar. I've always found that the longer and more frequent the sessions are, the more smoothly things seem to go and the faster the bond is solidified.



daisyandparsley7 said:


> First 2 min face to face the female(Natasha) was shoving her head under neath him. What does this mean? Then ended up grooming each other and then sitting by each other so I ended on that good note.
> 
> Third meeting 7 min long Natasha was thumping a lot? What does this mean and also shoving her head under neath him again and pancho was just laying flat and still the entire time.



Shoving her head under him is classic rabbit speak for "groom me". Some people have had luck with putting a dab of apple sauce or fruit-flavored baby food on one rabbit's head to entice the other into grooming them... this is more likely to work if he's just clueless about what she's asking for (as opposed to both demanding grooming from the other). The fact that he DID groom her in the first session is a good sign, as that means it's likely he'll do it again at some point.

At this point, I'd recommend doing longer sessions (15-20 mins minimum). If there are disagreements, give them time to work it out - don't intervene right away. The only things that should ever be stopped ASAP are chasing and vicious attacking. A little nipping is ok. A little humping is ok. Watch their body language and let that tell you when it's time to intervene. When possible, break them up without inserting yourself in the situation by using a spray bottle, loud noise, etc. to startle them into knocking it off.

Wheekwheekthump has numerous wonderful bonding articles that really take a fresh approach to bonding and do a great job of explaining why the conventional methods may not be the best ones - it's definitely worth reading them if you haven't already .


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## daisyandparsley7 (Jan 26, 2014)

Today everything is going ok so I'm doing an hour they were biting each other's face for a bit and it seemed they were progressing. I broke it up a couples times and now they seem indifferent. 




I guess my big fear is they will never really bond.  I'm keeping my hopes up indifference is not a bad sign


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## daisyandparsley7 (Jan 26, 2014)

I meant to say it seemed like the aggression was progressing a bit


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## Imbrium (Jan 26, 2014)

Indifference is actually a good sign (though aggression obviously isn't). If they started out with aggression and then things turned towards indifference later in the session, that's GOOD news as it means they can get over the aggression during long sessions and actually make progress.


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## zombiesue (Jan 26, 2014)

This is way too early to be worried about them never bonding, lol. Way too early. I think you're progressing along very well.


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## daisyandparsley7 (Jan 26, 2014)

I know it's too early I just think way too far ahead for my own good sometimes lol


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## zombiesue (Jan 26, 2014)

That's a common problem too LOL I think every first time bonder thread I've ever been on has been like that.


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## kisha.princess (Jan 26, 2014)

Is it normal for my girl rabbit to hump my boy rabbit? every time I put them out together she keeps humping him and be just lays there terrified


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## pani (Jan 27, 2014)

It sounds like she's trying to assert her position as the more dominant rabbit in the pair. If he's scared, I wouldn't be letting her hump him, because it's going to negatively affect how he feels about her. Are they spayed/neutered?


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## Troller (Jan 27, 2014)

Hey be happy you got some humping signs of dominance display. My rabbits never did that and displayed far more subtle clues so it made it so much more difficult.


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## daisyandparsley7 (Jan 27, 2014)

I just realized I should probably explain pancho's name because I also call him Lou in other posts. They are the same  we have a ton of nicknames depending on the day lol it started with pancho then some how panchalou( long story) and then Lou...


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## daisyandparsley7 (Jan 28, 2014)

Ok I need help now. I stuck with the short bonding because I have noticed fighting. I ended on a good note but when i tried again today it became even more violent. Within two minutes a huge fight broke out my rabbit was attacked really bad by Natasha. I had trouble separating it and once I finally did she lunged at him again as I was pulling him up. I feel very uncomfortable with this bonding and I fear for pancho's safety. It seems he is really interested in her and she want nothing to do with it. He was really traumatized by the event. I am going to contact the foster house and ask where to go from here. I do not think this is a good match. I mean she is violently attacking him. When is enough enough and it is enough reason to say they are not a good match. I myself and very upset and I feel so bad for pancho.


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## daisyandparsley7 (Jan 28, 2014)

Oops not today this was yesterday and now today they are not acting like themselves at all


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## Troller (Jan 28, 2014)

What does that mean not acting like themselves? Considering Natasha was attacking yesterday does that mean she's calm today? 

My personal belief is that unless two rabbits hate each other at first sight, they can be bonded. However having said that, its up to the keeper to decide how long and far they are willing to go. It took me 5 months, a battle that injured one of my rabbits badly enough it necessitated a Vet visit, and i was very well nearly done bonding. I persevered and it got done, but it easily could have gone the other way and have stopped. Now looking back, who knows if my decision to keep at it was a good one. Yeah they're bonded but they could have been happier being two separate rabbits and maybe I cruelly forced them to bond. So what happened with you sounds to me like just a set back but if its too much for you don't continue. 

If you continue, make sure whatever technique your using to stress them actually stresses them. I noticed during my time I thought the bathtub, confined space, moving chair etc was doing that but i was quite wrong. They were discomforted yeah, possibly annoyed, but jot stressed. Only the car rides would do it, and i made it a habit to do a car ride every so often Whether they fought or not.


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## daisyandparsley7 (Jan 28, 2014)

Not acting like themselves as in the are hiding in their xpens and don't even want to come out for me.


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## daisyandparsley7 (Jan 30, 2014)

I was advised to not do anymore face to face and continue to let them live side by side for two weeks. Then try it over again, as I did not give her enough time to adjust to her new home before trying to bond. She was in her foster home for a year so I guess I should have made her feel more safe before trying it. Thanks everyone for the responses, I will update when I try again and hope for the best!


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## daisyandparsley7 (Feb 12, 2014)

Going to start face to face again wish me luck! I'm traumatized from the last attempt two weeks ago. :/


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## mscalbun (Mar 3, 2014)

@daisyandparsley7 - how is the bonding going? Have your buns worked out their issues?

I just found your thread and I did a double take as I have a boy chinchilla and a girl (mix) dutch, who look very similar to your buns. We adopted him first from the local animal shelter and had time to bond with him; he is the sweetest rabbit. We had one pet rabbit previously, who died last summer. We weren't planning to adopt two rabbits, but when we adopted him from the animal shelter, the local rabbit rescue volunteers were there at the shelter and convinced us that our bun would be happier with a rabbit friend. We didn't realize how finding a bunny companion is really such an art! We ended up adopting the dutch mix from the rabbit rescue after a couple of "speed dates". We made a quick decision as the girl bun's foster parents were moving out of state and the rabbit rescue was going to send her to a another rescue. 

The rabbit rescue president thought that based on the buns' interactions (they seemed comfortable with each other in that they sat nearby with no interaction, but just groomed themselves) that we could do the fast bonding. We ended up putting them into an x-pen from day 1. There was some mounting attempts (by both buns), some chasing, but no biting or attacking. It wasn't instant love, but they tolerated each other until they worked out the dominance/submissive relationship. I thought she was the boss since she always presents for grooming, which he obliges, and she never grooms him. But, he is the one that chins her and occasionally will mount her and he always seems to eat first.

Anyway, hang in there. I'm glad we adopted the two (even though she's still not all that friendly with us - it's getting incrementally better); our boy bun is still the sweetie and seems happy with his gal pal. When they sleep or when he grooms her, it's the cutest thing ever.

I've attempted to upload a couple of photos of the happy couple. Hope to see some new ones of your buns sometime soon :sunshine:


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## daisyandparsley7 (Mar 6, 2014)

Ok so now finally ) she grooms him and we are at 10 minutes for bonding. But he just sits there like a log and won't groom back! She also grooms herself by him and stayed like this. What could this mean?


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## daisyandparsley7 (Mar 6, 2014)

Aww! I just saw your post! How Strange, I did a double take too when I only saw the picture! They are doing a lot better...fingers crossed! The two weeks without bonding really let her settle in. I am doing the slow way as it seems less stressful for this couple. He refuses to groom her and surprisingly she grooms him! She has been doing it more and more over the last few days and now we are up to 10 minutes for their dates! I have spring break the last week of March so I am hoping by then they will be up to 30 min and I will then try to leave them together while I watch 24/7. Thanks for checking in, and I love the pictures!


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## daisyandparsley7 (Mar 6, 2014)

Here is the picture from my question. 

the last one is in their side by side


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## daisyandparsley7 (Mar 24, 2014)

Well he gave in and now they both groom each other! We are up to almost three hours, but I still don't feel comfortable leaving them alone because they both try to hump each other and it ends up creating a little circling game. Probably they would be fine but better safe than sorry! 

They were even sharing hay!


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## lyndym (Mar 30, 2014)

How did you introduce them to a litter box? My two get along great and their longest date is 21 hours, but a litter box always throws a wrench in the works!

Looks like they have made great progress, congrats!


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## daisyandparsley7 (Mar 30, 2014)

They are fully bonded now! I originally had them in side by side pens and I would switch their dirty litter boxes so they could get used to each other's smell. I really didn't do it that much though. They are the large cat ones so they sit in it and eat hay, and when I put both of them in with the buns when the sessions were longer they didn't mind sharing and even went in the same one like in the picture. I think they were just really comfortable with each other's smell by the time I put the litter boxes in. 

Although, when I first started bonding I tried to put litter boxes in and Natasha was guarding hers to the point of starting fights... I didn't try again until they were pretty much bonded and had better luck. 

Good luck!


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## daisyandparsley7 (Mar 30, 2014)

Here's a new pic... I'm just so excited they bonded. I was pretty hopeless in the beginning.


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## Azerane (Mar 31, 2014)

They're adorable  I'm so glad that they bonded successfully!


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## daisyandparsley7 (Mar 31, 2014)

Thank you


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