# New rabbit owner



## Eve84 (Feb 9, 2020)

Hello,
I’m a new owner of three rabbits and I could do with some advice :0). 

I have three kids who are helping me with looking after them too. 

I read loads of rabbits already, we bought a hutch for them, which is made by a joiner, it’s winter safe and wind safe due to Plexiglass. 

We are about to build a walk in enclosure with the size in meters: 1.60m X 4.00m which they will be able to use 24h a day, 4 seasons long. 

Sadly they told me that the rabbits are only 9 weeks old. But having checked their vaccination card on the arrival at home I found out they are born already in October last year, so already 15 weeks old. 

I had wanted to have baby’s to be able to tame them from the start and also to see once a little baby bunny to be able to raise it from the early start, so I’m a bit disappointed and was still wondering to go for a fourth rabbit and have one baby, but I’m scared it will be too many rabbits in terms of a more regular dirty hutch etc. Also they have their hutch now since 5 days and I think it will cause trouble to put another one in after the other ones got used to their new home. 

Anyway one question I have is: 
Will I still have a chance of the brown rabbit of its ears dropping? They told me as it is only 9 weeks old (which is not the case sadly) that his ears will still drop/ hang

Sorry it’s not my first language :-/ 

Thank you 
Eve


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## Eve84 (Feb 9, 2020)

I don’t know how I can post another picture....


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## Eve84 (Feb 9, 2020)

That’s their normal stable for now and the other big one we still need to build. 

X


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## Mariam+Theo (Feb 9, 2020)

Welcome! I don't think that its ears will drop now that it is older. I would get them separated ASAP so that no fighting occurs and in case one of them is a male. Just a reminder that rabbits should have at least 18 square feet of room to roam, and that hutch looks a little small. They are super cute! I love the little grey one's markings.


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## Eve84 (Feb 9, 2020)

Hi Theo,
I won’t separate them as I want to keep them together as a group. It is two half ;-) males and one girl. The hutch is much bigger than the normal ones you can buy in any animal shop and like I said in two of my posts they will get a 24h walk in enclosure in a few weeks, probably two weeks time. At the beginning they should anyway not get too much space to themselves when they are new. 

Best Regards,
Eve


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## majorv (Feb 9, 2020)

What is your climate like there? The hutch above doesn’t provide any airflow thru it in the warm temperatures. Can the plexiglass be removed?


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## Eve84 (Feb 9, 2020)

I come from Hamburg- Germany, our winters are cold, up to -20 degrees and our summers are hot up to 38 degrees. 

We can remove all of the Plexiglass, but today we have severe storm and it’s also cold at night. 

During the summer we will remove the plexiglas and like I mentioned before they will get their big walk in almost 8 square meter which will be roughly 86 square feet. 
Also again with a similar plexiglass for the winter which can be removed during the summer. 

Hello from Germany 
Eve


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## Eve84 (Feb 9, 2020)

Big walk in enclosure I wanted to say


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## MammaOfTwoBlackBunns (Feb 9, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> Hi Theo,
> I won’t separate them as I want to keep them together as a group. It is two half ;-) males and one girl. The hutch is much bigger than the normal ones you can buy in any animal shop and like I said in two of my posts they will get a 24h walk in enclosure in a few weeks, probably two weeks time. At the beginning they should anyway not get too much space to themselves when they are new.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Eve


were they already bonded when u got them?cause if there not they will fight and they will be problems, they are still babies and have great memories they are very young and getting a forth when u have very little experience, just because they were a bit older then u expected isnt the right thing to do.. take care of the three u have and do some more research ... and just so u know bunnies can live as long as cats if taken care of properly, i recommend free roaming and litter box training, i don't believe in cages or hutches, and rabbits are prey animals leaving them in an outdoor hutch can be awful for them , they don't do well in the heat or in the cold and there susceptible to uncontrollable weather conditions and preditors..


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## MammaOfTwoBlackBunns (Feb 9, 2020)

i beg u to get them out of that hutch, and do more research there living in there own feces that's not okay.. they don't even have enough room to stand up in there, my local rabbit rescue society rescues bunnies kept in hutches then they burn the hutches after so no bunny is ever put in it again...


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## Eve84 (Feb 9, 2020)

I’m not sure if you read what I wrote or if u just see pictures and can’t read actual letters.... this is their little house and they will get a big house in two weeks time. 
They have been together before with other rabbits. But u always have to keep at least two rabbits together - how will u keep two or more rabbits together if you never place more than one rabbit ever in a hutch? 
It is ok to keep rabbits indoor and outdoor but it is always better to keep them outdoor if you protect them against draught. 
When it is 38 degrees indoor it’s probably 33 degrees outdoor and probably 30 in the shade. The rabbits are way better off being outside with fresh air rather than being stuck indoor. 
Also do you know how much dirt they produce? 

Think about it and read!!! 
Eve


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## Blue eyes (Feb 9, 2020)

Welcome to the forum!
I see you have plans to build them a permanent large roaming space. That will be great!

In the meantime, you could let them run around in an exercise pen whenever you have the time to sit outside with them and watch them. Just attach the pen to the current cage so that they can access the pen when the cage door is opened. Until the larger space is built, this is a way they can still have room to run and jump so that their muscles develop properly while they're young. This would only be for when they can be closely monitored since a pen is not secure or safe enough for outside housing. *EDIT* (we were posting at the same time) : if it will only be 2 weeks before the larger space is completed, then they will be fine in a smaller space. I was thinking it might take several months.

Do not worry that you got them at 15 weeks rather than 8 weeks. It is actually a myth that they will tame better if handled from a very young age. That is true for other species, but not for rabbits. Older rabbits actually train more easily.
Founder of Bunny Bunch rescue, Caroline Charland, states, _"People often think a rabbit must be held a lot as a baby in order to like being held as an adult. *I don't find this true at all.* Over the years, the Bunny Bunch rescue I founded has saved many mother and baby rabbits from shelters. All the babies were treated the same. When they became adults their personalities varied-- some liked to be held, some hated to be held and some tolerated being held."_
(Rabbits USA 2014 magazine)

That exercise pen I mentioned would also provide a good space for you and your kids to bond with the rabbits. You (or your kids) can sit inside the pen. When the bunnies come out and explore, they will also be getting to know you.

As others mentioned, 15 weeks is a time by which one would normally already have separated the males from the females. At this age, the male can impregnate a female. If you wanted them all to bond together (baby 'bonds' don't count as true bonds because it is only temporary), then they will need to be spayed and neutered.

It is also possible that if they are kept together they may begin to fight. Hormones can do that. Even if the female is separated, the boys can fight each other. You'll want to be keeping a close eye on them if they are together. Bonding can be a tricky thing. Sometimes bondings go easy, other times they are difficult, and other times they just won't work. It depends on the rabbits and one won't know until after hormones (or after being fixed). Bear in mind it can take several weeks after a neuter for hormones to fully dissipate.

One option is to temporarily house them each separately but still within close proximity of each other. Cages or pens separated by a few inches is one way to do this. That way they don't forget each other and are more likely to bond after being fixed.

Wow, didn't mean to write out so much. Hopefully this isn't too overwhelming.


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## zuppa (Feb 9, 2020)

Hi. So I understand you have two males and one female and they are 15 week old?

Then you need to separate them immediately.

Usually boys and girls must be separated from 10-12 week old, so your female can be already pregnant now.

Males also can't be kept together because from 12-20 weeks (depending on breed and personal development) they become sexually active it means that they will start fighting for dominance for territory as only one male can rule, they will fight and will try to kill each other. Even if they are very friendly it's nature and they will change sooner or later, the latest I have from my own experience was 5 months brothers housed together (under supervising) and I had to remove them one by one from 14 weeks the latest two brothers were separated at 20 weeks old.

So, unfortunately your beautiful hutch won't be suitable to keep all of them together, I would leave a girl in it (and would watch out for the babies in the next 2-4 weeks)

If you want to keep them all together they should be neutered and only after 6-8 weeks after surgery you can try introducing them in a neutral territory (please do some research on bonding process). Then if they will bond you can house them all together safely, with rebuilding your hutches as they are not big enough as they are now.


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## Eve84 (Feb 9, 2020)

Hi blue eyes,
Thank you for your long and friendly reply! 
I use a exercise pen already so that we can bond with the three rabbits. I use the exercise pen inside a big shed (12 square meters) to keep them out of the wind. 

They are already castrated with being 15 weeks old, as soon as their bowls developed we castrated them early before the hormones kicked in. 

Good to hear 15 weeks is not too old to tame them and thank you for the information about that- that’s very cool. 

Bunny greetings from Germany, are you American? 
Eve


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## zuppa (Feb 9, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> I’m not sure if you read what I wrote or if u just see pictures and can’t read actual letters.... this is their little house and they will get a big house in two weeks time.
> They have been together before with other rabbits. But u always have to keep at least two rabbits together - how will u keep two or more rabbits together if you never place more than one rabbit ever in a hutch?
> It is ok to keep rabbits indoor and outdoor but it is always better to keep them outdoor if you protect them against draught.
> When it is 38 degrees indoor it’s probably 33 degrees outdoor and probably 30 in the shade. The rabbits are way better off being outside with fresh air rather than being stuck indoor.
> ...



You can keep two rabbits together but after they are neutered (spayed) otherwise they will fight for territory (and can kill each other) or will produce new babies every 30 days.

Sometimes you can bond two unspayed females but there's no guarantee. I have two bonded females mother and daughter housed together, they are not fixed, I had to bond them before I housed them together as they were territorial.


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## zuppa (Feb 9, 2020)

Sorry I just see your comment that they were already neutered, I thought you only have them for 5 days now and they are 15 week old? How long ago were they neutered, all of them or only males?


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## Blue eyes (Feb 9, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> Hi blue eyes,
> Thank you for your long and friendly reply!
> I use a exercise pen already so that we can bond with the three rabbits. I use the exercise pen inside a big shed (12 square meters) to keep them out of the wind.
> 
> ...



You're very welcome! That's fantastic that they are already fixed!! Then they are already doing quite well getting along.  

If you are still considering a 4th rabbit, just be aware that doing so could upset the bond of the three. Bonding more than 2 is always a delicate balance. 

Yes, I'm American. However all of my cousins (and Tanten & Onkel) live in Germany!


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## Eve84 (Feb 9, 2020)

Hi all,
Yes I thought it was clear as I wrote at the beginning that I have to half males [emoji85] but only the males are neutered. 
The breeder told me the males go along fine but sometimes you get problems with females, you can also neuter them but it’s a proper operation. He said when the female is pregnant once or twice in her life time she will get on much better and offered us to get her pregnant next year and keep one offspring and he will keep the rest of the offspring for us. 

I will need to go for now 
Eve


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## majorv (Feb 9, 2020)

I think the plan you have is fine. There is nothing wrong with having them outside as long as they’re protected by the hot/cold temps, and any predators you may have in your area. 

As to pregnancy settling down a doe, you could say that is usually true. Once our does had litters they were a little more calm.


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## MammaOfTwoBlackBunns (Feb 9, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> I’m not sure if you read what I wrote or if u just see pictures and can’t read actual letters.... this is their little house and they will get a big house in two weeks time.
> They have been together before with other rabbits. But u always have to keep at least two rabbits together - how will u keep two or more rabbits together if you never place more than one rabbit ever in a hutch?
> It is ok to keep rabbits indoor and outdoor but it is always better to keep them outdoor if you protect them against draught.
> When it is 38 degrees indoor it’s probably 33 degrees outdoor and probably 30 in the shade. The rabbits are way better off being outside with fresh air rather than being stuck indoor.
> ...


good luck!


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## Diane R (Feb 10, 2020)

Hi Eve, congrats! As others have said, it is not true that baby bunnies are easier to train, quite the opposite. It is also impossible to know what their personalities will be like when they are that young. Do not introduce a 4th bunny, that could upset the existing bond. Never go to breeders for advice. What they said about pregnancy is pure nonsense. And please don't breed. There are so many thousands of bunnies in rescue centres looking for a good home... Best to get the female spayed at 16 weeks before she gets hormonal as that could result in fights. And yes, it is possible the ears will still drop, they are still very young.


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## Eve84 (Feb 10, 2020)

Hi,
I would have another question, will they still grow with being 15/16 weeks old or will they stay as big as now forever? 

Thanks 
Eve


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## Hermelin (Feb 10, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> Hi,
> I would have another question, will they still grow with being 15/16 weeks old or will they stay as big as now forever?
> 
> Thanks
> Eve



They will grow until they turn 1 year old, so they will grow for a time ^^


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## Blue eyes (Feb 10, 2020)

They switch to an adult diet at 6 months of age. That usually means cutting out any alfalfa-based pellets or alfalfa hay and switching to grass-based pellets/hay. If they aren't already getting timothy hay (or other grass hay), that can be started already. By 6 months, pellets get reduced too to a measured amount based on their weight. 

They are already old enough to be slowly introduced to greens as well.


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## Eve84 (Feb 11, 2020)

Hi [emoji112] 
Thanks for the information! I started already to feed them salads (also Ruccola) and carrots with the green on top and dried herbs [emoji263] is that ok? 

You read different things online, some say main food should be hay and water and others say main food should be greens and fresh food.... what do they always mean with greens ? Salad and grass etc? How many carrots a day etc? 

The only thing I realised is the more fresh stuff I give them the less water they drink which I think is good isn’t it? 

What about when you cut your grass in the summer can u just give them the cut grass too? 
I also have a herb garden, can I give them Rosmarin? I read oregano is good for them also sage. 
Thanks again 
Eve 
Ps. The sister of my mother in law lives in America


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## Hollandblaze03 (Feb 11, 2020)

If you have been feeding them greens for a while then it should be fine. Watch for squishy of liquid poop and feed a lot of hay. Another good food option is owlets. If you can get some healthy rabbit pellets that would be another good option.As for the breeding, it can be dangerous and the breeder will still have to keep your female for a month or two after the babies are born. I would say that it’s probably not worth the risk. The best way to fix any behavioral problems would be to get her fixed.


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## MakoCheese (Feb 11, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> Hello,
> I’m a new owner of three rabbits and I could do with some advice :0).
> 
> I have three kids who are helping me with looking after them too.
> ...




The hutch size is fine. The ears on the chocolate one WILL drop. It’s only 9 weeks old. Some of mine took a year to drop.


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## Donna Standar (Feb 12, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> Hi [emoji112]
> Thanks for the information! I started already to feed them salads (also Ruccola) and carrots with the green on top and dried herbs [emoji263] is that ok?
> 
> You read different things online, some say main food should be hay and water and others say main food should be greens and fresh food.... what do they always mean with greens ? Salad and grass etc? How many carrots a day etc?
> ...


Never give them grass that the lawnmower has cut, I read that the emissions from the mower can contaminate it. Just cut it with scissors first what you need before the mower cuts it.
Also carrots are not good daily. Tops are good though. Apparently they should have carrots very sparingly. Twice a month for my buns, and just a small amount. 
A few pellets a day is good, along with fresh veggies but 80 percent of their diet should be hay. I also give them a small piece of Apple for a treat a few times a week. (Tablespoon amt) mine love banana but I find if too much is given, makes their poop a bit soft.
Good luck with your buns!


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## Blue eyes (Feb 12, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> Hi [emoji112]
> Thanks for the information! I started already to feed them salads (also Ruccola) and carrots with the green on top and dried herbs [emoji263] is that ok?
> 
> Ps. The sister of my mother in law lives in America



Small world! 

There are definitely certain greens that are better tolerated than others. Certain things have too much sugar (carrots - the root) or too much calcium or oxolates (mustard green or parsley) to feed daily but can be fed on occasion.

Some rabbits will not tolerate certain greens too. This is why it is recommended to offer just one type at a time when starting out. If you feed some fresh spinach, for example, and bunny starts to have mushy poos, then you know to stop feeding that. But if you fed him spinach, kale and parsley all at one time, then you won't know which one caused the issue.

So as you introduce new things, keep it to one type at a time. You can add a variety once you know what your bunny tolerates.

Feel free to check out the following page of my website. It reviews how to introduce greens and also has a _couple lists of greens -- _one list of greens safe for daily use and another list for occasional. I'll apologize in advance about the format. It shows well on a computer or laptop. Unfortunately, the host site does not do a good job of converting to a mobile version. I don't like how it moves things around for mobile viewing. Anyway, here it is:
https://rabbitsindoors.weebly.com/greens--veggies.html

Btw, the green tops of carrots are great for rabbits. The carrot root is best viewed more as a treat. Carrots or fruit are higher in sugar. It is recommended to wait on treats until bunny is used to a variety of greens as part of his daily diet. After that, he can have 1-2 tbsp of fruit per day. (sorry that's not metric) So if he gets a slice of apple one day, he doesn't get any banana or carrot that day.

You'll get to know your bunny's tolerances as he gets older. Some rabbits will have tummy issues if given that one slice of apple. Others seem to be able to tolerate much more. So the _general_ recommendation is 1-2 tbsp.

I've had a rabbit that could eat all kinds of junk (years ago, before I knew better) and be just fine. My current rabbit will start having issues if I give him more than a few craisins. Just depends on the rabbit.


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## Eve84 (Feb 14, 2020)

Hi,
Thanks [emoji120] did not have a look at your link yet. But does that mean I can feed them unlimited: salads and spinach and grass once they got used to it? 

As I said I was really disappointed to receive 15 week old rabbits and not 9 week old ones. 

I don’t really trust the breeder anymore. And as I read along about health and care for rabbits yesterday I found out to my surprise that he maybe was wrong again....

So I have chosen my rabbits on a Sunday and wanted to collect them next day on the Monday but could not collect them as the boys got neutered that day and was told I could pick them up the following day (Tuesday). 

Which means the got neutered with 14/15/16 weeks apart from the girl. Isn’t that too late for an early castration? Meaning I would have needed to keep them separate for at least six weeks? 
The breeder said where there is nothing to cut we can’t cut something. But I read for a early castration the bowls are still inside meaning it’s going to be a bigger operation and they need a few days to recover, which also doesn’t fit to the point that I collected them a day later and he didn’t have any fur shaved off underneath his belly etc. 

Hmm... still need to learn a lot about rabbits. 

Thanks again
Eve


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## Donna Standar (Feb 14, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> Hi,
> Thanks [emoji120] did not have a look at your link yet. But does that mean I can feed them unlimited: salads and spinach and grass once they got used to it?
> 
> As I said I was really disappointed to receive 15 week old rabbits and not 9 week old ones.
> ...


Ive been told they can't be neutered or spayed before 6 months of age...is your vet an exotic vet? Specialized in rabbits? Why would a vet do more to a bunny than what's needed?? Doesn't sound right to me


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## Eve84 (Feb 14, 2020)

Donna Standar said:


> Ive been told they can't be neutered or spayed before 6 months of age...is your vet an exotic vet? Specialized in rabbits? Why would a vet do more to a bunny than what's needed?? Doesn't sound right to me



Normal vets can neuter them from 8 weeks onwards. Six months would be way too late!


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## Donna Standar (Feb 14, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> Normal vets can neuter them from 8 weeks onwards. Six months would be way too late!


My baby bun is 11 weeks old, and they can't even tell the sex yet, so I've been told to wait a minimum of 20 weeks.
A regular vet fixed my boy (it's dad) but he was two years old.


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## Donna Standar (Feb 14, 2020)

Donna Standar said:


> My baby bun is 11 weeks old, and they can't even tell the sex yet, so I've been told to wait a minimum of 20 weeks.
> A regular vet fixed my boy (it's dad) but he was two years old.


What I was surprised about, is the bunny bowels you stated...???


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## Eve84 (Feb 14, 2020)

Donna Standar said:


> What I was surprised about, is the bunny bowels you stated...???



Uppsss sorry [emoji52] how embarrassing [emoji85][emoji85][emoji85] I meant the testicle. It’s not my first language so I sometimes get words wrong like in this case


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## Eve84 (Feb 14, 2020)

Hi,
From what I read but like I said I’m new to rabbits so the experience is missing, is that you can sex them with 5 weeks onwards but latest 8- 12 weeks. 

That you can neuter/ castrate them early with earliest 8 weeks but only until 12 weeks, it has the benefit that the hormones haven’t developed yet, so it’s stays kinda a kid forever and also as the hormones haven’t developed yet you don’t have to separate him from the females. 

The “normal” castration you can do from 13 weeks onwards and the benefit from this surgery is that the testicles are already developed so you basically just have to cut them rather than cut open the belly as the testicle would be in there until about 12 weeks. 
But minus point is, that the hormones have already developed and you have to separate him at least 6 weeks from any females as he can impregnate them. 

And the breeder did not mention something to me, more the opposite I have to have them together for bonding. And I’m wondering if he can make this early castration with my rabbits when they were already 15 weeks old [emoji848][emoji848][emoji848] 

Thanks again and sorry for my English [emoji53]
Eve


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## Augustus&HazelGrace (Feb 14, 2020)

Around here vets will neuter boys as soon as the testicles descend. With females, it depends on the vet when they will do it. Usually, as early as 4 months to 6 months.


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## Eve84 (Feb 14, 2020)

Augustus&HazelGrace said:


> Around here vets will neuter boys as soon as the testicles descend. With females, it depends on the vet when they will do it. Usually, as early as 4 months to 6 months.



But will you have to keep the males away from the females for six weeks afterwards or is it as early that the hormones haven’t developed yet? 
Thanks 
Eve


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## Augustus&HazelGrace (Feb 14, 2020)

You have to keep males away from females for 6-8 weeks because they can still get her pregnant. The hormones have to do when you are bonding to a spayed female. If the female is spayed you can start bonding as soon as the hormones die down. With females, they can't get pregnant after a spay but it is recommended to wait 4 weeks before bonding to let them heal and that's about when the hormones will be gone.


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## Donna Standar (Feb 14, 2020)

Augustus&HazelGrace said:


> You have to keep males away from females for 6-8 weeks because they can still get her pregnant. The hormones have to do when you are bonding to a spayed female. If the female is spayed you can start bonding as soon as the hormones die down. With females, they can't get pregnant after a spay but it is recommended to wait 4 weeks before bonding to let them heal and that's about when the hormones will be gone.


How can a female still get pregnant after a spay? They do a total hysterectomy . I don't think that's possible...lol


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## Augustus&HazelGrace (Feb 14, 2020)

Augustus&HazelGrace said:


> With females, they can't get pregnant after a spay but it is recommended to wait 4 weeks before bonding to let them heal and that's about when the hormones will be gone.


Maybe you missed it but I did say that they couldn't. I was saying that a male can still get an unspayed female pregnant up to 6-8 weeks after a neuter.


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## Donna Standar (Feb 14, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> Uppsss sorry [emoji52] how embarrassing [emoji85][emoji85][emoji85] I meant the testicle. It’s not my first language so I sometimes get words wrong like in this case


Ohhh okay. That makes sense. Sounded like the vet was operating on his bowels as well...My baby is still not hormonal, totally litter trained and not spraying yet. Could be a girl for all I know. But when the dad comes near its cage it growls at him. And lunges. Lol


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## Donna Standar (Feb 14, 2020)

Augustus&HazelGrace said:


> Maybe you missed it but I did say that they couldn't. I was saying that a male can still get an unspayed female pregnant up to 6-8 weeks after a neuter.


Ohh geeze.. Thought you said the opposite lol
Sorry about that


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## Augustus&HazelGrace (Feb 14, 2020)

Your good. @Donna Standar


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## Eve84 (Feb 16, 2020)

Starting to build their walk in enclosure [emoji847][emoji847][emoji847]


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## Eve84 (Feb 16, 2020)




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## Eve84 (Feb 16, 2020)




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## Mariam+Theo (Feb 17, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> View attachment 45177
> View attachment 45178
> View attachment 45179


That is very nice and big! It is similar to what I'm trying to build for my rabbit.


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## Eve84 (Feb 17, 2020)

We won’t continue until next weekend! I can’t wait [emoji4]


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## Eve84 (Feb 23, 2020)

Hi,
It’s slowly continues... the weather is horrible we have at the moment. It’s constantly raining from the early morning until late evening and we also have a heavy storm.


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## Apollo’s Slave (Feb 23, 2020)

It looks good!


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## Eve84 (Feb 23, 2020)

Thanks [emoji120]


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## Donna Standar (Feb 24, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> Hi,
> It’s slowly continues... the weather is horrible we have at the moment. It’s constantly raining from the early morning until late evening and we also have a heavy storm.
> 
> View attachment 45353
> ...


Love it!


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## Eve84 (Feb 29, 2020)

To be continued


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## Apollo’s Slave (Feb 29, 2020)

It looks amazing!!!


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## Eve84 (Mar 1, 2020)




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## Eve84 (Mar 1, 2020)




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## Eve84 (Mar 1, 2020)




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## Eve84 (Mar 1, 2020)




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## Apollo’s Slave (Mar 1, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> View attachment 45467


Aww Mr/Mrs Chocolate Lop‘s - sorry, don’t know his/her name - ears have flopped!


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## Eve84 (Mar 1, 2020)

Sometimes but not very often. His ears are very often upright but I get more and more hopeful that his ears will still flop / drop :0)


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## Eve84 (Mar 1, 2020)

His ears normally look like that but I think his ears look too long to be upright ears


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## Butterscotch (Mar 1, 2020)

I'm sorry if this has already been said and I missed it but you will want to get your female spayed eventually so that she doesn't develop cancer later in life.


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## Eve84 (Mar 1, 2020)

Hi Butterscotch,
I’m not sure if I want to get her sprayed. It’s a severe operation and has an big impact for her to cut her open fully. 
In Germany the statistics are not 80% for her to get cancer if u don’t spray her. 

I might get her pregnant once or twice next year to even lower her risk for getting cancer. But only when I know the breeder is taking the rest of her baby’s apart from one back. And we would keep a fourth bunny for us. 
Eve


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## Apollo’s Slave (Mar 1, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> View attachment 45468
> 
> 
> His ears normally look like that but I think his ears look too long to be upright ears


Aww 
They still look pretty loppy to me though! He might have aeroplane ears


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## Eve84 (Mar 1, 2020)

Only the roof is missing and will probably only be finished next weekend :-0


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## Eve84 (Mar 1, 2020)

Ahh no I forgot something - the frames which will go in front of the wire with Plexiglas for bad weather and wind is still missing.


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## Eve84 (Mar 7, 2020)




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## Preitler (Mar 7, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> Hi Butterscotch,
> I’m not sure if I want to get her sprayed. It’s a severe operation and has an big impact for her to cut her open fully.
> In Germany the statistics are not 80% for her to get cancer if u don’t spray her.
> 
> ...



The statics aren't 80% anywhere, no matter what age gets cited. Obviously, during the last 1 or 2 decades there was much activism in the US about getting pets spayed (not so much just rabbits, it was aimed primarily at cats and dogs), and during the past 10 years it really had an effect on pet numbers in shelters, but some arguments got repeated over and over, and exaggerated beyond any credibility on the way. Lots of propaganda by well meaning people, but anyone who has to do with rabbits for some time sees that those numbers are pretty much made up - my guess is more like 30% in their lifetime, which is still a very good reason to spay. Risk of the operation is somewhere around 2%, depending on the vet.

That getting them pregnant to reduce their risk is a myth too, there's no evidence that there is any connection. Not a good reason for breeding, unless you've got a solid plan about what to do with the offspring.

There are good reasons to spay, like it puts an end to false pregnancies, their litter habits and hormonal behaviour - which can be interpreted as "destructive" by their owners - gets a lot better. That has a few drawbacks too, like less activity that can promote things like obesity or bladder sludge if not taken into account. But over all, I'm much happier with my spayed free roam indoor girl than I was when I had my Black Fury indoors for 8 months, she pretty much destroyed my appartment - and is a very active, happy, 8yo outdoor bunny now.

Ah, question: Where did you get that square wire, and what is it called? I'm building a hutch and that looks good, guess we have the same shops here.


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## Eve84 (Mar 7, 2020)




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## Eve84 (Mar 7, 2020)

Hi [emoji112],
The wire we used is 19 mm wide and 1.43 mm thick and is coated with zinc that it won’t corrode. It is also welded in each corner. 

Feuerverzinkter, punktverschweisster, Voilieredraht kein Kaninchendraht!


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## Apollo’s Slave (Mar 7, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> View attachment 45540
> View attachment 45541


Awww it’s nice and big for them


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## Eve84 (Mar 7, 2020)

[ATTACH

=full]45542[/ATTACH]


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## Eve84 (Mar 7, 2020)




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## Blue eyes (Mar 7, 2020)

Preitler said:


> Ah, question: Where did you get that square wire, and what is it called? I'm building a hutch and that looks good, guess we have the same shops here.



In the US it is known as hardware cloth or galvanized mesh.


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## Eve84 (Mar 7, 2020)

Hmm... I don’t know what hardware cloth is but I now galvanised mesh. Galvanised mesh is ok if it doesn’t get wet but if it does get wet it will rust fairly quickly. So you will need to find something which is covered in zinc or hot zinc dipped.


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## Blue eyes (Mar 7, 2020)

The hardware cloth and the galvanised mesh I see are all double coated with zinc. 
https://www.homedepot.com/s/hardware%20cloth?NCNI-5


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## Eve84 (Mar 8, 2020)




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## Eve84 (Mar 9, 2020)

Hi [emoji112],
This is gonna be the first night for our three rabbits [emoji235] to stay the night outside as well as staying in their little hutch. They will be able to choose now as I don’t close the walk in enclosure for them from now on. 

We haven’t made the frames yet to protect them again rain and wind coming in but I temporary put a foil on the outside where the wire is to have a similar effect until we built the frames probably next weekend. 

Uhh [emoji51] I’m a little bit scared but it should all be fine 
Eve


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## Blue eyes (Mar 9, 2020)

I bet they are going to love having the option to go where they want, when they want!


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## Blue eyes (Mar 9, 2020)

Time to post your photos on the outdoor cages thread!!!
https://www.rabbitsonline.net/threads/outdoor-cages-post-your-photo.96732/

Maybe you can post your completed shots and then include the link to this thread for the "in progress" pics. 
[Link to this thread: https://www.rabbitsonline.net/threads/new-rabbit-owner.97094/page-3 ]


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## Eve84 (Mar 9, 2020)

Will do thanks blue eyes. 

I put a few wooden planks down for them so their little bum can be a bit warmer rather than sitting on the concrete. 
I bet you are right and they will love it and I will have sleepless nights [emoji23] 
The kids wanted to sleep out there with the rabbits and it was hard to get them away from that idea until summer time [emoji23] 
Eve


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## Eve84 (Mar 10, 2020)

That’s what it looked like this morning [emoji849][emoji36] so my temporary solution didn’t work out.... so bunny’s are back in their little hutch and I need to think about something else until the frames will be ready.


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## Mariam+Theo (Mar 10, 2020)

I don't see a reason why you need the plastic covering unless it is windy/rainy. But even then, if it is windy/rainy they can go into their hutch to warm up. They might actually like the fresh air that comes through the welded wire. Whenever I open the door to the shed Theo loves all the fresh air that rushes in.


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## Eve84 (Mar 10, 2020)

Hi Theo,
Thanks for your reply. 
That was my thought too at the beginning but the breeder told us, that dwarf rabbits aren’t dwarf rabbits anymore. They are basically not tough enough anymore to stay outside specially some breeds like “teddy or the ones with angora wool”. And that you should protect all kind of breeds agains rain as they become wet and ill and also wind specially draft wind. 

And that’s the reason why we want to have it weather proof during the winter and spring time and once it’s summer and warm to be able to take away the protection and have the ability to have the wire free for the slight warm wind breeze coming through. 

We decided to go for something which is similar to plexiglas but much cheaper and less see through sadly. 
Eve


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## bunnylove2024 (Mar 14, 2020)

they are so spoiled! it will be fine, just make sure there is some spot with a roof soon because of predators. Also, they are super cute! Good luck!


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## Eve84 (Mar 22, 2020)

Hi [emoji112] 
We finally finished the walk in enclosure for our three bunny’s. 

We have taken a cheaper option for now as the Plexiglas would have been to expensive. A friend wanted to have a look to get it cheaper but as everything is getting closed due to Corona and we wanted to stay away from people we used that as a quick solution which might not be a permanent solution as it annoys us that it isn’t very see through. But it also has plus points with not being see through in terms of cats etc. not being able to shock them and the cats can’t even see them from the outside. 

Here are a few pictures! 

Stay healthy!!! 
Eve


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## Eve84 (Mar 22, 2020)

And the new - non see through windows are removable- depend on the weather!


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## thevanguard6 (Mar 25, 2020)

That looks like it worked out really well. Perhaps a small/cheap throw rug to give them a soft surface to sit on? Not sure if you're interested, but there are some nifty bunny tips here:
A feature that would probably fit in your groovy enclosure area: http://www.blitter.com/~nebulous/otherworld/Rabbit platforms 01C.pdf 

And general info: 
http://www.blitter.com/~nebulous/otherworld/RabbitCareGuide.pdf


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## Blue eyes (Mar 25, 2020)

thevanguard6 said:


> That looks like it worked out really well. Perhaps a small/cheap throw rug to give them a soft surface to sit on? Not sure if you're interested, but there are some nifty bunny tips here:
> A feature that would probably fit in your groovy enclosure area: http://www.blitter.com/~nebulous/otherworld/Rabbit platforms 01C.pdf
> 
> And general info:
> http://www.blitter.com/~nebulous/otherworld/RabbitCareGuide.pdf



A rug or mat would be a good idea!

One of the links has some questionable advice that contradicts experience and the House Rabbit Society. It states that lettuce is "not so good" and that a rabbit shouldn't get too many fresh veggies. Aside from iceberg lettuce, the other (dark green) lettuces (romaine, red-leaf, green leaf, spring mixes, etc) are perfectly fine and safe to feed a rabbit (provided these, like any new food, are slowly introduced). 

It is recommended that _2-4 cups of greens be fed daily_ and that is what many here on RO feed. Those greens may include the lettuces or spring mixes or basil, cilantro, mint, oregano, thyme, dill, tops of carrots. Some should not be fed daily as they are high in oxolates or in calcium-- like parsley, mustard greens, kale, broccoli. 

Fruit, on the other hand, should be severely limited to 1-2 tbsp per day max. This would include high sugar carrots too. 

Here is an article about those greens:
http://rabbit.org/natural-nutrition-part-ii-pellets-and-veggies-2/


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## Eve84 (Mar 25, 2020)

Hi


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## Eve84 (Mar 25, 2020)

My app suddenly doesn’t work anymore :0( does anybody experience the same or know how to help? 
Thanks
Eve


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## Eve84 (Mar 25, 2020)

It’s a good idea with the rug but I don’t want to place something down other that wood for now as I want to get them toilet trained first. 

They are already litter/ toilet trained in their little hutch but not in the big enclosure just yet. 

a few little things still need to be improved etc. But everything is on hold for now due to this Corona virus :0(. 

here are a few pictures

eve


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## Mariam+Theo (Mar 25, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> My app suddenly doesn’t work anymore :0( does anybody experience the same or know how to help?
> Thanks
> Eve


I'm guessing you also missed this: https://www.rabbitsonline.net/threads/rabbits-online-app-discontinued.97501/?


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## Eve84 (Mar 25, 2020)

So does it mean they deleted it and it’s no longer and never available? :0(((


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## Eve84 (Mar 25, 2020)

Thanks for the links Blue eyes I will read them at a later time when I can read them on my husbands laptop. also I still didn’t add my pictures on the outdoor thread.


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## Mariam+Theo (Mar 25, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> So does it mean they deleted it and it’s no longer and never available? :0(((


I never had the app so I don't know. They will probably make a new one, but you would have to ask to make sure.


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## thevanguard6 (Mar 27, 2020)

Blue eyes said:


> One of the links has some questionable advice that contradicts experience and the House Rabbit Society. It states that lettuce is "not so good" and that a rabbit shouldn't get too many fresh veggies. Aside from iceberg lettuce, the other (dark green) lettuces (romaine, red-leaf, green leaf, spring mixes, etc) are perfectly fine and safe to feed a rabbit (provided these, like any new food, are slowly introduced).



Fresh veggies seem to be hit and miss. Some rabbits are okay with them and others are not. I find that many older rabbits start to have gut issues when getting too many fresh veggies. Studying the eating habits of hares is what led to my adoption of dried foods (dried parsley, dried apple slices, dried carrot tops, etc...). Decades later, it's proven to work very well for multiple rabbits. So feel free to try fresh veggies in moderation, but if your bunny's droppings soften up, I'd recommend the hay and dried fruit and veggies diet. Again, 80% of your rabbit's diet should be timothy hay (ideally).


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## Blue eyes (Mar 27, 2020)

Fresh veggies should not be hit or miss IF they are being introduced properly. Slow introductions of one type at a time allows a rabbit's gut time to respond appropriately to the nutritious greens. Usually a rabbit won't have issues unless it is offered too much or too soon. It could also be that just one particular green doesn't sit well with a particular rabbit. But that is easily discovered if greens are introduced properly. 

As far as following the eating habits of hares, that seems a bit off given that hares and rabbits are 2 different species. There are many differences between hares and rabbits, not the least of which is their diet in the wild. Hares tend to eat twigs and branches (especially in winter), while rabbits eat soft greens like grasses and other fresh green foliage. This lends credence to the recommendation to have generous fresh greens as part of a rabbit's daily diet. 

That said, there are plenty of hardy individual rabbits that will thrive on just about any diet. I knew of a rabbit that was fed nothing but dry dog food for its first 5 years -- no hay, no pellets. Other occasional rabbits are just the opposite and even have trouble digesting pellets. So anecdotal evidence aside, the recommendations to feed 2-4 cups of daily fresh greens should not be classified, in my opinion, as "not so good" but should rather be encouraged.


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## Eve84 (Apr 6, 2020)

Enjoying a day in the garden at 20 degrees.


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## Apollo’s Slave (Apr 6, 2020)

That looks so fun! Your rabbits are so cute! Little trio


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## Eve84 (Apr 14, 2020)

Hi everyone,
I have made the decision to add another last bunny to the three of ours.
I regretted so much not to have the chance like I said in my first post once to have a little baby bunny  I know I’m moaning on a high level and also I fell totally on love with one.
I had wanted to have four bunny’s at the end and have intentionally planned to let our girl once be pregnant and keep one baby - but that’s out of my head for once and forever hopefully  

I also have the feeling that one of our rabbit is always feeling left out and thought getting another girl will end up in two pairs.

i hope it will all work out.
I’ll send a picture of our new one soon.
She will be 8 weeks when we get her in about three weeks time.

I hope you are all well! 
eve


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## Eve84 (Apr 14, 2020)

She is a teddy dwarf lop, that’s the German name I’m not sure what it is in English. She will be very very fluffy and I have to groom her every one to two weeks.
I love her already.


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## Eve84 (Apr 25, 2020)

Huge garden play pen  For our three rotten spoiled rabbits :0).
Next week number four is coming home which was definitely a good decision as they always fight a bit over the girl.
And then we will have our final bunny’s with two males and two females.
Have a good weekend 
Eve


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## Eve84 (Apr 26, 2020)




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## Eve84 (Apr 26, 2020)

She (Puschel/ translated - Fluffy) has grown and is moving home next weekend - to us!!! I’m looking forward to it so much in this horrible Corona time.
Eve


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## Mariam+Theo (Apr 26, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> View attachment 46995


She's so cute!


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## Eve84 (May 2, 2020)

She has arrived and I love her so much!!!


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## Eve84 (May 2, 2020)

She is really exhausted after this 2h car journey so we decided not to introduce her to the other three today and maybe not tomorrow.
We have build a nice cage for her and also the get together in our shed. It’s the same cage as the outside playpen. We had originally plan to bond them outside but it suddenly and also luckily in terms of our nature started to rain after 6 weeks. And we discovered she fits through the bars/ mesh of the playpen and luckily she ended up outside of the playpen in our shed and not road or garden..... 
Take care 
Eve


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## Eve84 (May 3, 2020)




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## Eve84 (May 4, 2020)

So the delayed bonding due to Puschel being able to escape through the fence, I took the other three and placed them all together in our shed. And it looks good so far, no real fighting etc. I think I will leave them together in the shed for the next 3-7 days and see how they get on. And once they all eat from the same food bowl or sleep together in a bed I will take them all back to our big walk in enclosure. And then we can take back everything from our carport back to our shed .

here are some pictures:


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## Eve84 (May 4, 2020)

The fight between them started, specially between the two girls, but nothing more than hunting. So I will leave them their time to sort out the hierarchy. 
And in the meantime I’m watching from our baby monitor how they are doing :0)


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## Eve84 (May 5, 2020)

It looks very promising  the hunting has stopped and they even sit next to each other to eat and cuddle. On the picture it’s Puschel with two other rabbits together. Mogli and Balou.
Later on I think I’m going to give them one food bowl to share :0)


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## Eve84 (May 5, 2020)

Sorry on the picture is Mogli Puschel and Blumi not Balou


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## Eve84 (May 5, 2020)

There we go! It worked!


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## Eve84 (May 10, 2020)

Loads of pictures, from my special bunny and their bonding!


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## Eve84 (May 10, 2020)

And a few more I can’t help it.


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## Eve84 (May 19, 2020)

A nice day in spring time


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## helena (May 19, 2020)

Your rabbits are cute and so spoiled! Looks like your kids love them too! I'm totally in love with your rabbits!


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## Eve84 (May 19, 2020)

helena said:


> Your rabbits are cute and so spoiled! Looks like your kids love them too! I'm totally in love with your rabbits!



Thanks very much! And yes they are spoiled


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## Eve84 (May 19, 2020)

I also bought them a new bigger bed for their little hutch where they sleep at night. They did not all fit in the old bed before now where there is four of them . 


I don’t have a picture of them using it yet, I only placed it there late evening today. 

The first 4 pictures are the old beds and u can see most of the times one is left out in the second bed and the last two pictures is the bigger new bed


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## helena (May 19, 2020)

They are the cutest bunnies!


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## Eve84 (May 20, 2020)

They were not properly cuddled or asleep but that’s the first pictures I caught


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## Eve84 (May 21, 2020)

Looks good


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## Eve84 (May 31, 2020)

Sunny weather


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## Eve84 (Jun 6, 2020)

Hiya ,
We build them today a new bigger hay rack ourselves, as sometimes when I don’t go to them in the early morning as I have for example an appointment or the kids are in a mad mood whatever they still have enough hay, like they never run out of it but not enough to feel comfortable with, for my personal opinion. 

Also if we were to go away for a weekend or long weekend I wanted also an option to make it possible we won’t need a pet sitter just for a weekend. 

We made it firstly without a top as we hope they won’t be able to hop in or use the “ thin” wood to jump on. 

Stay safe 
Eve


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## Diane R (Jun 6, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> Hiya ,
> We build them today a new bigger hay rack ourselves, as sometimes when I don’t go to them in the early morning as I have for example an appointment or the kids are in a mad mood whatever they still have enough hay, like they never run out of it but not enough to feel comfortable with, for my personal opinion.
> 
> Also if we were to go away for a weekend or long weekend I wanted also an option to make it possible we won’t need a pet sitter just for a weekend.
> ...


Certainly a good idea to make sure they never run out of hay. I do think it looks dangerous without a top, I have seen cases where bunnies break limbs in these types of racks. On the pics it looks like they can easily get in from the shelf. Also, make sure they can't get their heads stuck. I would not leave a bunny for more than 12 hours let alone a weekend. If they are not eating, they can get liver damage after 6 hours. Not eating for 24 hours can be fatal.


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## Eve84 (Jun 7, 2020)

Hi  
Thanks for your input, we thought there might be a 50:50 chance they will sit in the hay rack aannndddd they did  so we made a top for the hay rack. 

It isn’t very high so they wouldn’t injure their limbs from jumping down. 

Also we do feel comfortable to go away for a weekend or a long weekend once we know they will have enough hay and enough water as we constantly have them on the camera to be able to see and watch them while we are away. 

And four rabbits never get tired of entertaining themselves  

We will see for now we will go nowhere with the Corona virus  and for next year or the year after we will also see if we find a good pet sitter who we trust and maybe looks after their pets in return for their holiday. 

Good night
Eve 

Ah and I checked before our self made rack is similar to the racks you buy for the distance of the bars


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## Eve84 (Jun 7, 2020)

Ahh forget to send the pictures


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## Eve84 (Jun 13, 2020)

Our rabbits are having a lazy day today


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