# Rebirth of the Phoenix from Ashes



## holtzchick

I have decided to start a new blog because my old blog is too heavy for me to deal with now, especially with Peter being in there and all the old conflicts and complications that had arisen. 

However, this is about Phoenix. Many of you likely know that the Phoenix is a bird described in Greek mythology. 
Quoted straight from Wikipedia, " It has a 500 to 1000 year life-cycle, near the end of which it builds itself a nest of twigs that then ignites; both nest and bird burn fiercely and are reduced to ashes, from which a new, young phoenix or phoenix egg arises, reborn anew to live again. The new phoenix is destined to live as long as its old self. In very few stories they are able to change into people.""

I was going through a very tough time and I was doing some cleaning. Unusually, I decided to go into my garage to get some cleaning products and garbage bags when my family (who all loves to smoke in the garage) pointed out and made a joke that there was a "house bunny" on the front lawn. Now, they like to make fun of me because they know I love rabbits, I assumed it was a wild bunny like most that I see here. Then I saw "it". It was indeed the cutest house rabbit I had ever seen. The fur looked long and yet soft like velvet and this poor bunny, despite the fact that I live on the corner of a major intersection in the city, looked VERY comfortable laying in the grass and grazing away. I had never seen a rabbit be so unaffected by its surroundings! 

At first I was afraid to go near this bunny, what if it decides it wants to attack me, what if the bunny is sick? Then the next thoughts that entered my head were, when was this bunny released? when was the last time this bunny ate a proper meal? It looked very thin and scraggly so I figured if it was really hungry and if it were really tame, it would come to me if it wanted to. I bent down 5 metres away from the bunny and lo and behold, it hopped over to me willingly and even hopped into my arms! I thought this must be a sign that it was meant for me! I was so excited because I had wanted to adopt a bunny to bond with Peter and had contacted the shelters but this bunny had come to me. 

Immediately I was taken back by its trusting and loving qualities, it flipped on its back and licked my arm and was just so grateful! I brought it inside (which I had at the time sexed it as a male since I thought the urine scald was testicles :/) and blocked it off in the washroom with pellets, water, hay and toys. Did _he_ ever eat! I bet I refilled the bowl (completely) 3 times before _he_ was satisfied! I had never seen a bunny so hungry! The poor bunny was also very dirty and muddy. 

I didn't want to stress him out the first night so I let him be and adjust to this new environment but the next day, I set out to give him a bath. Normally I wouldn't bathe a bunny because its not good, but it was truly necessary the bunny was all matted and muddy and it had a matted bum which looked like it was very uncomfortable for him to go to the washroom and was red. I could not wait to get him to a vet! 

Poor little guy had put up with the bath, allowing me to cut out the mats and blow dry him clean and at the end again licked my arms to death out of gratefulness! I couldn't believe that someone had let this bunny go! 

This was bunny after I had given it a bath... 












It's poops were irregular because it wasn't getting its proper nutrients outdoors. I vowed that this bunny was so sweet I would take care of it and bring it back to health! I went out, bought it alfalfa hay, pellets and vitamins and I was going to bring it back to health and a normal weight!


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## holtzchick

I had made a vet appointment and taken bunny in to the vet. I wanted to make sure he was as healthy as could be before I fully get attached and bring him into my world! 

The vet was so happy that I had given this bunny a home and proceeded to look at it's teeth, it's eyes, it's ears, it's bones and then OOPS.... bunny was a _*female*_. 

I couldn't believe that a female had wandered into my home and was so friendly because I had the idea that females were more aggressive and less laid back than males. The girls at the vet had helped me shave out some of the mats that I could not get and shaved her tummy to look for a spay scar, which we could not find. Even though she was afraid of the big scary machine, she just kept licking me! She had already looked for me for comfort, I had truly saved her. 

The vet said that she was severely underweight and had I not found her, she likely would not have survived much longer outside. She was barely at 3 lbs, which for the size of her frame, was not very much. He also felt the need to mention that her fur was in VERY poor condition but over all did not find anything wrong with her. He prescribed some TLC, a dewormer and an antibiotic to make sure that she did not have worms and to just refresh her system. He told me to continue with the alfalfa and free feed her as much as she wants so that she will gain weight and when she is in better health he would spay her! 

Over the next few weeks, I took his advice and fed her as much as she would eat, I gave her vitamins daily and I brushed her daily as well. She was coming along very nicely and I thought she would be around to spay in no time. Then I would introduce her to Peter Cartier Rabbit! 

This was her just a few weeks after our vet visit! 
















She had put on weight, her eyes were looking better, her whiskers had grown in fuller and her patches of fur were growing back thicker and softer than before. 
I brought her in for a recheck at the vet, this time, she was just shy of 4 lbs and was much healthier the vet also asked me (jokingly) if this was the same rabbit because there was such an improvement in her health. He said that I should continue doing what I am doing and he will spay her in 1 month because her health should be excellent by then!


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## holtzchick

Between then, the unexpected had happened. Peter Cartier Rabbit had passed on to the rainbow bridge and I could not bear it. In a way, it kind of made me think that Peter was in my life to hold it together because he had brought me so much comfort when things had gone wrong and then, when he had passed, he was the reason my ex boyfriend and I started seeing each other again because I looked to him for comfort. He was the only other person that ever understood the way Peter was because he was the only other person that ever took the time to. I would like to think that Peter brought my life together again even from beyond the bridge. He meant so much to me. You've seen these pictures before, but I post them again. My ode to Peter Cartier Rabbit, whom I still miss dearly. 











Peter meant so much to me, and I always joked that he would be my condo bunny and he never made it to that move. So now that I am moving to a loft in November, I am making him his own section by the window so that he will finally be my real condo bunny (or should I say loft bunny) and may his soul be free.


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## holtzchick

With Peter's passing, I began to have a pessimistic outlook on things until my emotions settled down. Phoenix continued to get better in health but I still had a troubled feeling something was going to be wrong. Then I started to get paranoid and think that she was loosing weight since I put her onto Timothy pellets and Orchard grass hay. I spent lots of time with her, and the more time I spent with her, the more that I could just not believe that she was truly healthy because she was so sweet I thought, there is no way I deserve to have her in my life! All she knows is how to give love. She snuggles and kisses and grooms my hair! I want to give her all the love in the world only to make sure her life is never the way that it was when I originally found her! 

I think that maybe she had a bad experience with dogs since whenever she sees one, she freaks out and runs in the other direction even if she sees one through the window and it is not paying attention to her! Anyways my paranoia had been getting the best of me in the weeks leading up to her spay. There was nothing I could do but just hope for the best! 

This was her a week before her spay was to take place. 






After taking her into the vet for her spay. Not only did she gain weight, she was a 4.6 lbs!! I could not believe that she had changed so much!


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## holtzchick

I was so worried when the vet had called me to tell me that she was 3 1/2 - 4 years of age (I still need to ask him how he came to that conclusion) since I know that bunnies have a greater risk of not doing well with the surgery after a certain age. I was also worried that she had already had uterine cancer since she was intact because like I said I could not believe that I had this sweet little bunny in my life and that she was doing just fine! 

The vet had told me she had cysts on her ovaries but did not know the cause, he said it was likely to be age. I had them sent out to the lab to be tested and am awaiting the results. 

As for the surgery it went very well and Phoenix was already eating up a storm at the vets and just kept eating when she arrived home. She was very comfortable from the get go and had absolutely no complications with pulling at the incision and did fine with the meds. She is still in her enclosure I had built for her for the next few days until I can get the incision checked. 

I have taken a picture of it because the scabbing concerns me, then again my boyfriend said it was normal for things to scab when they heal (makes sense) so maybe it will just take longer. 











She has another vet appointment scheduled for this Sunday to get results from the lab and see how she is healing. I am hoping for the best and again am SO grateful to have this loving girl in my life. Words cannot express how much her love means to me!


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## holtzchick

Just gave Phoenix her last dose of Baytril for the week. Poor girl has SO much energy! She really wants out! I'm just afraid if I let her out, she is going to mess up her stitches. 

Hopefully the vet has some insight for me on Sunday.


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## Nancy McClelland

Ours didn't like to be penned up for a whole week either, but they managed. She looks just like our Commander Bun-Bun. I'm always amazed at how loving most of our "abandoned" bunnies are. Finn, our little black and white boy is just the sweetest bunny and was rescued from owners that were going to toss him out into the desert.


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## holtzchick

Honest to god I was in shock because I had never seen such a friendly loving bun in person. I think the bunnies are just very greatful that they are recieving proper care and attention  

I wonder how it is that people can just be so careless as to throw a living creature away like that. :/


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## holtzchick

Great news from the vet visit today! Turns out Phoenix's incision has healed wonderfully AND she is 100% cancer free! The results came back negative. 

I was so ecstatic! My veterinarian also said I should be careful with her for 2-3 weeks for it to heal properly since the skin is so sensitive. I feel bad because I can only let her out under supervised time and she cannot hop on anything. She was so happy to be out, she did bunny 500's but I had to put her back just in case. 

The vet invited me to the open house at the clinic so that I can bring Phoenix in and introduce her to people and educate them on bunnies a little bit. Of course I agreed, I would be glad to. I thought that Phoenix would be an excellent therapy bunny. He said out of all his bunny clients that he has seen, she has the nicest disposition  

Today was a great day over all!


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## qtipthebun

I love reading about her! She's so pretty!! And she sounds like such a doll! Keep putting up pictures...she's unbearably cute.


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## Nancy McClelland

:clapping::yahoo::clapping::yahoo::clapping::yahoo::clapping::yahoo::clapping:


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## holtzchick

Thank You, I am glad some enjoy reading this blog! It actually really helps my mood out as well. 

Yesterday, Phoenix ran out of hay and so I went out and decided I would start switching up the hay and giving her some variety so I picked up some Oxbow Botanical Hay. 

It definitely is more crunchy and it smells delicious like Chamomile, makes me want to eat it! LOL. 

I let her out yesterday for an hour to run around. Lots of binkies and bunny 500's as well as clothing nips because she was so excited to be out. She was mad to go back into the cage but what can I say  ... So nervous for the move on the 1st and super nervous as to how I will litter train her. She seems pretty darn stubborn, it's going to be a challenge.

I'm sorry I will post pictures eventually, I just have all my stuff all over the place. After I move, there will be a collage of pictures


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## cwolfec

I just read through your blog, and I am very happy for you that you have this little (well 4.6 pounds isn't SO little!) lady bun to bring joy to your life! It never ceases to amaze me how loving rabbits can be! Hope your girl heals up quick so she can run around like crazy again soon


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## Mariah

I tried to read your post about Peter rabbit but I couldn't bring myself to do it. Your writing brings tears to my eyes because of my beloved Citrus that I lost back in April. I too have his urn and it was just too close to home trying to read what your wrote about Peter.

I am so glad you have a new bun to share your love with


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## agnesthelion

Phoenix just is so fun to read about she sounds like a joy to have in your life.


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## holtzchick

Thank you all for the compliments! It is a pleasure that you read this blog! There will be many a story in the new apt, since she will be free roam (also means many pictures!). 

You all have more eventful blogs due to more buns, they're just a hoot!

BTW, I don't think I have ever formally introduced myself. 

My name is Michelle, I'm 20 years old and work at a pet supplies shop (that thankfully does not sell pets) and am a complete animal advocate doesn't matter the size of the animal. Sometimes I think I would love to be a vet tech (my vet thinks I would make a great one) but I hate seeing animals in pain and am way too sensitive for that. Anyways, now you know a little about me also. 

Thanks again all


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## holtzchick

ALSO, completely forgot. When I went in on my recheck, I ended up asking the vet as to why the aged her at 3 1/2-4 years and he said that the specialist aged her by her teeth (made me confused :S) and her skin/organ condition. It is not for certain, my vet still thinks she is possibly younger as do I, her health is simply far too good for her to be at that age. She honestly had NO difficulties after the spay, it felt more like a neuter to me :/ 

Sorry I'm rambling!


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## holtzchick

Well , we are officially moved in but not yet settled in. As you've been hearing there was a hurricane in New York and surrounding ares and we seemed to get the remnants of it down here! (perfect moving weather!) 

Despite the weather conditions we still managed to get all of phoenixs stuff and bought her a dog crate so that I could let her run around while we handled all the big items. This morning I had some time before work to run into walmart and was planning on buying those big colourful foam puzzle pieces that you would see in a childrens playroom to use as flooring in the playpen. I ended up finding those but the womens breast cancer charity edition ones that were pink and white and since Phoenix is a female I found it only appropriate  

Now it's time to crack down on litter training ... I think she will do fairly well. I feel bad I really want to let her run around but I am hesitant since the floors are all dusty and there are boxes all over the place. I will clean up and make her a playhouse out of the boxes 

Her incision has healed wonderfully into a scar and she is just being a doll about the move. As soon as I had her playpen set up, all I had to do was set some food in there and she was once again content. Fat little bunny! 

Picture updates will be posted soon


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## Imbrium

I'm glad she's settling in well! it's best to keep her space limited anyway, since a) you're trying to litter train her and b) if you give access to a large new area all at once, they can go a bit nuts with the territory marking


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## holtzchick

We are settling in very nicely and COMPLETELY unpacked . This means that Phoenix is out when we are home and able to watch her. At first, her favorite places were upstairs (probably because of the carpet) and her cage. Now, her favorite place is on the rug where she just sits, stretches and grooms herself it's quite cute I snapped some photos! 











and here is a shot of the playpen I have her in, box and all... 






I'm surprised, she will not chew on the cardboard yet she will lightly toss it. I can't wait until she gets more familiar with the space and more comfortable.


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## qtipthebun

Holy fluffernutter, Batman! Is that the same bunny??? She looks AMAZING! What a precious little bunny!! I just want to kiss her little nose!


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## agnesthelion

Her color is beautiful. Looks like she is settling in nicely after the move


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## holtzchick

Thank you! She is very much settled in. And so it begins, Phoenix 1 Carpet 0.... She is learning to chew the carpet which I hate so much since she does not chew on ANYTHING else :/ 

Everytime she went to chew the rug, I would pick her up and put her on the wood floors. She really didn't like that  I think my work is done. Hopefully it will teach her not to chew as opposed to chewing our rug out of spite! I got a couple of nice shots of her today that for me, completely show her personality! 









Her giving my hand kisses... Got to love the face!! 






Having a hard time on the kitchen tiles! Poor Nixie! 






We have taken to calling her Nixie for short or even Nexus.


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## holtzchick

My little Nexus is such a charmer! Even though she's caught doing something bad, she will still give you that look that's like "Me? Oh, never! I wouldn't do that" and you can't help but believe her! lol....

She hopped up on my couch yesterday and I caught her giving me this look after trying to taste the pillows!! 






THEN she shot me another look as she was about to dig into the throw! 







HOW CAN I STAY MAD AT THAT FACE?!??


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## audrinasmommy88

She is gorgeous!! If she ever goes missing, it wasnt me


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## Imbrium

lol, well your pillows look like they've got leaves - if I was a bunny, I'd taste 'em too! (super cute pillows, though!)


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## cwolfec

WOW she is a stunner  :hearts

Looks like she is settling into her new domicile quite well!


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## holtzchick

Thanks all. No wonder I give in to all of her demands.  

I am her slave and she knows it all too well.


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## agnesthelion

She is just a doll. Her coloring seems to even change a bit. In these pics she looks more gray but in some she looks orange. Beautiful  

Your place looks gorgeous! I like the green pillows too!


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## holtzchick

Thanks  My sister got those pillows for me as a housewarming present and I THINK she got them at home sense which I guess the equivalent in the US is Homegoods...you know another TJX company.

Last night i had made Phoenix a toy from an egg carton and just stuffed it with hay and threw some treats in there. Her reaction was funny because the first thing she did was pick it up and fling it across her cage so the box split open and the hay went everywhere... Hmmm that is the only way she ever plays with toys she only likes to toss them and will only chew wicker balls.

Bunnies will be bunnies 

She is officially also molting with cactus butt to prove it. I have a Furminator brush for her but it's way too small and her fur is simply too thick for it to get through I think I have to sell that one and buy a medium dog sized one.... Yes that would be more appropriate. I'm going to wander over to petsmart today before work to see if I can pick up any other toys for her:/


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## Ilovemyrabbit

How much would you sell the Furminator for? my bunny needs some grooming and I would buy it from you.

Also is your phoenix a Palomino rabbit? she is beautiful!


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## holtzchick

Honestly since you're in the states I think it is more worth it for you to get one locally.. I was thinking of selling mine on kijiji but I havent figured out the price yet. 

Thank you  I'm not sure what Phoenix is but I have had palomino come to mind. She is simply not large enough or meaty enough to have palomino in her mix, she only weighs 4.6 lbs. palominos are known for being used as meat rabbits so that's out of the question :/ she's my mutt bunny


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Your right , I didn't notice it you were in Canada! Kijiji is a great place to sell, you could also sell it on Ebay.

You certainly are lucky to own phoenix she is gorgeous!!!


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## holtzchick

Thank you  

I know it's weird and I never put much thought into it, but I'm starting to wonder if Phoenix is a reincarnation of someone or a pet that was once close to me! I've never believed too much in reincarnation but she was just such a coincidence and she's loves me SO much! Everytime I walk by her playpen, she immediately runs over, and everytime I crouch down she jumps on me or scratches me so I will give her pets and then kisses me so much! I am so glad to have her with me  

Also, I noticed she is not afraid of the tile floor in the den her cage is in but she is VERY afraid to go into the living room where the wooden floors are. I think I am going back to walmart so I can get more of those mats to build her a pathway around the downstairs when she is out of her cage  I leave her pen open the entire time I am at home but she only stays in her cage and hops around the den. :/ Odd.


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## holtzchick

It has been decided... Phoenix needs SOMEBUNNY to love! I've had enough. She grooms me so much and she enjoys all my grooming with her, it dawned on me that when I'm not home, she likely misses it. I am getting her a husbunny! 
I've decided to wait a little until I know how much my work hours will be increasing and until we buy all of our furniture and get that settled in. I'm thinking that by Christmas time we will be ready to bring another bun home. The shelter by me does bunny dates except they only have one bunny there at the time, and I would prefer to get her a male since I've read all the mishaps with same sex bonds. 
I would also like to have another bun from 3-4 years so that I don't have to worry about one going before the other. 

I made her a new toy today out of a paper towel tube and she seemed to like tossing it around. I really wanted to make a different toy, a stuffed bunny made from a sock but I wanted to stuff it with newspaper... Needless to say, I got super frustrated because it took too long to sew. I got the idea from a link a friend sent me a few years back and I recently found it on my bookmarks. The link is in Polish but you get the idea, I think it's adorable! I don't see why with some modifications it could be a perfectly safe bunny stuffy!! It's all step by step with photo's so I'm sure anyone could follow it if they wanted to... Here is the link  http://www.joemonster.org/art/18993/Co_zrobic_z_zagubiona_skarpetka_

I've been very sad all day so my thoughts are that my boyfriend and I are going to eat some not so healthy food and watch a Disney movie to cheer me up! I tried to spend most of my day with Phoenix and her grooming me which is what sparked my above thoughts!


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## agnesthelion

I think it is great you are deciding to get a husbun for Phoenix!! Getting a second bun has been very enjoyable for me  it was alot of work bonding but I truly found it interesting and fun. I hope you will too.

I researched alot before I got another bun. And truly the research doesn't deny that rabbits are social creatures and very much like constant companionship. When I see Agnes and Archie together, it warms my heart to know they have each other when I can't be there. Plus, I swear it has only made our human to rabbit bond stronger. It's like she (Agnes) tries to thank me for her new love.

Best of luck for you finding a husbun. Keep us all updated!


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## holtzchick

Okay I know I said I wasnt adopting until Christmas time ish but it doesn't hurt to prepare. As such my boyfriend and I sent in an application to our rabbit rescue because we are interested in 2 buns. One is a holland lop with aparently a huge personality which one be great for Phoenix and the other one is a Californian or Californian cross from the looks of it. He is also 4 years old and weighs 11 lbs. I love big bunnies and I want one that is Phoenix's age. Well I guess we will see. Maybe the rescue can also suggest a bun that they think would suit her. Of course we would make her meet the bunny first hence putting in the application so early. I definitely don't want to rush things I want to have the other buns cage ready and everything.  fingers crossed for that.

I bought Phoenix some western Timothy hay and she NOMMED it lol. This is the first time I have ever bought her Timothy hay from oxbow because they always looked yellowish. My boss moved the stores location and this store carries the whole oxbow line and the hay looked very fresh so I bought it from there  I also got her the oxbow bunny treats the veggie snacks and she seemed to like those.... Actually I comeletely forgot but I am going to order Phoenix some Sherwood forest pellets tonight so when the new bunny comes I don't have to transition him through 2 differenvt and unfamiliar foods I want to make this super comfortable for whichever bun it may be. 

Thanks to those who have been recording their bonding experiences in their blogs you will be a huge help to ,me  so happy that all of us bunny lovers have a site like this for support and entertainment !!


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## qtipthebun

My dream husbun for the Tipster is a Californian. Still working on convincing the other half that we have enough space. They're super cute. Phoenix would love somebunny to love! Although you can send her here and I'll give her kisses!


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## Imbrium

aww, so exciting that you're preparing for a new arrival! hopefully the rescue will have a perfect soulmate for Phoenix


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## Ilovemyrabbit

That's great that you are getting a new bunny!:biggrin: I'm sure Phoenix will love to have a husbun!

I want to get my bunny a bunwife, when I have the time to care for two bunny's.


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## holtzchick

Thank you all  I can't wait To hear from them!!


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## holtzchick

Phoenix has been a little odd lately... In the sense that I keep her playpen open and all she does is stay there. Rarely does she come out of her pen since she does not like the flooring. Yesterday, I decided to go to Walmart and get more of those flooring mats. I made Phoenix a pathway on the floors and she's been running back and forth non stop all morning. I think this is JUST what she needed. The good thing about the mats is I can always just fold them up and put them in the closet at any time! 

Here's a picture of her unsure of her pathway at first. 







Then I also decided that she is not eating enough hay, she barely touches the stuff and just goes to pellets. Instead I decided to feed her 1/8 cup of pellets this morning, with a load of hay AND I put some dill, carrot greens, and cilantro into her bowl as well (by the way, what is the rule with veggies, how many to give? 1-2 cups?) Last night I gave her some beet leaves, sweet potato and kale but I think it was too much calcium... Her urine wasn't like sludgy this morning but it was really white and slightly thick so I just decided that maybe she shouldn't get kale for now. 

Heres a picture of her nomming on her greens  






She's still silently nomming... I can hear her from upstairs, oh food motivated buns.


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## agnesthelion

Aww so glad you are preparing early for a new bun  I was looking at holland lops too for Agnes but ended up with a mini Rex but holland lops still are so appealling to me!

Love the floor mat idea. Agnes is not a fan of slippery surfaces either. Archie and her both avoid the tiled bathroom. But they have tons of carpeted space to run on too.


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## JjGoesBounce

Hi! Pheonix is looking great! 


Jj


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Great idea with the flooring mats! now she can finally go where she was afraid to go!

About with the greens... I feed my bun about a cup of greens a day, and he seems fine with that!


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## holtzchick

Nice sounds good !!

I just confirmed my order for 12 lbs of Sherwood forest pellets and I hope they get here soon  I want to have her on those before new bun gets here better to transfer one than two


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## holtzchick

Nice sounds good !!

I just confirmed my order for 12 lbs of Sherwood forest pellets and I hope they get here soon  I want to have her on those before new bun gets here better to transfer one than two


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## Imbrium

HRS recommends at least 2 cups (packed) leafy green veggies per 6 lbs body weight daily... non-leafy greens should be limited to 1 tbsp per 2 lbs body weight daily. I probably wouldn't feed sweet potato, they don't do well with excess carbs.


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## JBun

You also want to introduce new veggies gradually and one at a time. Here's a couple veggie lists for rabbits:

http://www.3bunnies.org/feeding.htm#greens
http://www.rabbit.org/care/veggies.html


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## Imbrium

yeah, if she's new to veggies you definitely want to do it gradually and work your way up to the full amount for her weight.


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## qtipthebun

I love her hay rack/litter box. Did you make that or buy it??


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## Imbrium

it's made - the instructions on how to do it are found here:
http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=53690&forum_id=93


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## qtipthebun

Whoa. I'm not that crafty!!!!


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## Imbrium

the grid part is easy... the hay rack portion, not so much.


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Yes I love the hay rack, maybe I'll get around to making it someday.


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## holtzchick

Thanks  I plan on making one more and then one big one for them to share later on.... Actually the hay rack thing wasn't so bad all i did was take a grinder to the nic cube to cut it but I must say that I didn't have a ledge that I could bend the cube with so I had to get my mother to stand at the top of the concrete steps outside while I jumped on the other end to bend it....

Oh and Imbrium regarding introducing veggies, she seems to be doing okay with everything else I have given her. She must of had veggies before somewhere in time :/ its odd...

I'm going to try and start growing carrot and beet tops today


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## Imbrium

mine had no issues at all with introducing veggies either, it's just a precautionary thing 

I've got a bunny garden, too! I gave up on carrot tops, they took WAY too long to grow from seeds and you can buy carrots with tops at my grocery store. I gave the seedling to my neighbor and it's still like 2'' tall... I must've planted that thing at least 2 mos ago.

I have some expensive herbs because I could buy a whole plant for the cost of a little packet at the grocery store (which is a total rip-off) plus a couple other things - basil, sage, mint, orange mint, fennel and raddicio.


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## holtzchick

Lol okay maybe I won't try the carrot top thing sounds great though! I will definitely have a bunny garden as Phoenix seems to love the veggies! 

On another note, Bob from sherwood forest wrote me and said they had to refund me for my order since they're currently not shipping to Canada :grumpy: of course just my luck!


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## Imbrium

ssd: that sucks!


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## holtzchick

Okay so updates!  I went to Walmart to grab packets of seeds I could plant for Nexxus but they didn't have any I ended up getting a "fine herb" chia plant. It basically has dill, cilantro, curley parsley, chives, basil and marjoram. I'm going to plant those tonight and hopefully that works out


----------



## holtzchick

Planted the bunny garden today! 












I put the dill with the marjoram, the parsley with the basil, and the cilantro with the chives. 

I hope this Chia magic grower stuff works... otherwise I'm going to have one angry bunny to report to! 

ALSO... I realized if I put Phoenix's hay in a bowl BESIDE her litter box, she will nom the crap out of it, I think I've outsmarted her ways!!


----------



## JBun

Glad to hear Phoenix is eating her hay . She's going to love her new garden!


----------



## holtzchick

Okay so not entirely :/ ....

She stopped eating her hay so I went out and got her some oxbow oat hay..... I think she liked it although she will try anything but I mixed it with her Timothy hay and we shall see how much is left tomorrow morning


----------



## agnesthelion

I always see herbs and starting kits and such when I'm out and about shopping and I put off getting any but I really should. Let us know how it goes and maybe you'll inspire me to finally start a bunny garden.
Any updates with the adoption??


----------



## holtzchick

Hmmm actually no :/

I'm quite disappointed that it takes them So long to respond and this isn't the first time either... I called them when I found phoenix, never got a call back, and I called them before to ask about donating bunny feed to them, again no call back. I might try emailing my app to a different email on the website because i know I said I wasnt in a rush but geeze you'd think I could taking my time on setting Phoenix up for dates  

As for the garden I will update with pictures and let you know how it goes... It's remarkably easy and I am not garden savvy... I bet it'd actually be a fun project for you and your son to do together  I always liked stuff like that as a child.


----------



## holtzchick

Good news, good news. Last night I went to go pick my new coffee table up, which is great and all since now I have something to eat on, except for the fact that I can no longer flip the rug over when Phoenix is out of her cage.... 
She chews on the rug (I guess it reminds her of grass) and so she has left me no choice but to cover it up with blankets!!






and of course she likes to hang out smack dead in the centre underneath the table  






More good news.... I emailed someone else from the Rabbit Rescue last night and they said they recieved my application and wrote me an email regarding that but they were having issues with their server so I may not have gotten it so someone will contact me either today or tomorrow with further details to proceed with the adoption  

MORE good news (DANG, I am on a roll today!! :biggrin My herbs have started the germination process and you can see little greens sprouting on the basil already!!

Basil & Parsley






Basil






Dill and Marjoram






and Chives and Cilantro






As you can see, my cilantro is getting damp, I need to spray it so it can properly germinate. I hope it is not too late 

Also, to water them today, I used bunny poop water, you know for extra nutrients! 

Speaking of extra nutrients, Phoenix's greens for today consisted of Dandelion Greens, Spinach, Dill and Cilantro.. She was super happy. I also think I figured out her hay pattern. First of all I found she loves the oat hay (still mixed it in with the timothy hay) and she likes it fresh because normally I fill up her hay every morning. Picky Bunny!! Yesterday I had to refill her hay 3 times ! That made me happy. 

This is going to be a great week. Thanks for reading !!


----------



## Imbrium

it's SO exciting when you get those first tiny sprouts, isn't it? I did a little happy-dance, took pics, showed my neighbor, etc. I was so proud I made something grow, hehe.


----------



## qtipthebun

Q-tip here. Wait till that basil grows! Mommy had to transplant mine because it got too big for the pot! I was nomming the hell out of it...and then the cat sat on the pot and squished it! Nothing is sacred with a cat around. Be glad mommy doesn't have one of those. It would sit on your garden. Trust me, it sat on mine.


----------



## holtzchick

*Imbrium wrote: *


> it's SO exciting when you get those first tiny sprouts, isn't it? I did a little happy-dance, took pics, showed my neighbor, etc. I was so proud I made something grow, hehe.



Haha. Yeah, coincidentally, my boyfriend is a seasoned botanist so he doesn't care too much but I was like "YEAH I made it grow! I'm doing something right " Your garden looks quite good, I wish mine looks half as good !!


----------



## holtzchick

*qtipthebun wrote: *


> Q-tip here. Wait till that basil grows! Mommy had to transplant mine because it got too big for the pot! I was nomming the hell out of it...and then the cat sat on the pot and squished it! Nothing is sacred with a cat around. Be glad mommy doesn't have one of those. It would sit on your garden. Trust me, it sat on mine.


Nexxus to Q-tip, Nexxus to Q-tip. I'm glad I don't have a cat thing in my house, mommy says we're getting another bun soon, I hope its a nice bun not a muppet  
I can't wait to eat the garden but I don't get it, it's all dirt... I don't like dirt  

Sorry if Phoenix sounds like she's in a space station she's not used to this bunny chat yet. 

On a good note, the rescue said they have a bun that just got surrendered because his mate just died and he got stressed out so they said he would be perfect to bond to Phoenix and he's super affectionate. I would love to see pictures, I don't know anything about him yet. They said I can't bring her for a date though I don't know why  but I guess it's a risk I'll have to take.


----------



## agnesthelion

Great news about the rescue! You know, my rescue at first said they wouldn't allow bunny dating at first either. Then, when I did adopt Archie from another location of the rescue, that gal did allow it....

But either way I would just make sure you can set up an agreement to bring the bunny back if they fight really bad.

Congrats on the sprouts and the new coffee table, lol. Lots of fun things 

Can't wait to hear about phoenix's new possible husbun!


----------



## holtzchick

OKAY quick update. 

I just got a picture of Hippo the bun... He is gorgeous!!  






Also, apparently he is very needy right now and really wants a mate to bond with so I think it could be bunny love at first sight since I THINK Phoenix could be the same. Not pushing my luck though


----------



## Imbrium

*holtzchick wrote: *


> *Imbrium wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> it's SO exciting when you get those first tiny sprouts, isn't it? I did a little happy-dance, took pics, showed my neighbor, etc. I was so proud I made something grow, hehe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haha. Yeah, coincidentally, my boyfriend is a seasoned botanist so he doesn't care too much but I was like "YEAH I made it grow! I'm doing something right " Your garden looks quite good, I wish mine looks half as good !!
Click to expand...

I cheated, though, I started with plants instead of seeds which is stupidly easy - just water any time they look wilty. I accidentally killed (pumpkin where the stem snapped during re-potting), deliberately abandoned (darn carrots that wore out my patience... one got eated by a raccoon or possum and the other one got given to my neighbor to make space for sage) and/or failed entirely (dandelions) at everything that I started from a seed. I keep meaning to give dandelions another try.

I'm not looking forward to any freezes we get this year - I'm so fail at paying attention to weather, I'll almost certainly kill them if it drops below freezing and my neighbor doesn't give me a heads-up. I'd bring 'em inside for the winter, but then I'd have to go re-purchase the plant lights I changed my mind about and returned and I'd have to find a place to put them.

I also need to figure out how to stop stuff from eating my plants - my raddicio, among other things, has holes in some of the leaves ssd:

good luck with the rescue bunny - I hope they're very happy together! be sure to keep us updated with all the bonding stuff


----------



## whitelop

I just read all the way through your blog! I just realized that you post on my blog all the time and I've never read yours. :baghead
Phoenix is BEAUTIFUL! I love her coloring! She seems like a total sweetie. I hope you get your big Hippo the Bun, he looks adorable. I hope Phoenix likes him. 

Just wait until your marjoram grows and you smell it. It smells so good, I got Foo some and couldn't stop smelling it because it was wonderful! 

Your loft looks so beautiful, I'm jealous. My house is the total opposite! hahaha. 

I really look forward to reading more about Phoenix and her hopefully soon to be husbun.


----------



## holtzchick

*Imbrium wrote: *


> *holtzchick wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *Imbrium wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> it's SO exciting when you get those first tiny sprouts, isn't it? I did a little happy-dance, took pics, showed my neighbor, etc. I was so proud I made something grow, hehe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haha. Yeah, coincidentally, my boyfriend is a seasoned botanist so he doesn't care too much but I was like "YEAH I made it grow! I'm doing something right " Your garden looks quite good, I wish mine looks half as good !!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I cheated, though, I started with plants instead of seeds which is stupidly easy - just water any time they look wilty. I accidentally killed (pumpkin where the stem snapped during re-potting), deliberately abandoned (darn carrots that wore out my patience... one got eated by a raccoon or possum and the other one got given to my neighbor to make space for sage) and/or failed entirely (dandelions) at everything that I started from a seed. I keep meaning to give dandelions another try.
> 
> I'm not looking forward to any freezes we get this year - I'm so fail at paying attention to weather, I'll almost certainly kill them if it drops below freezing and my neighbor doesn't give me a heads-up. I'd bring 'em inside for the winter, but then I'd have to go re-purchase the plant lights I changed my mind about and returned and I'd have to find a place to put them.
> 
> I also need to figure out how to stop stuff from eating my plants - my raddicio, among other things, has holes in some of the leaves ssd:
> 
> good luck with the rescue bunny - I hope they're very happy together! be sure to keep us updated with all the bonding stuff
Click to expand...


That is cheating! None the less, I still want my garden to look like yours  

Thank you for the wishes, I surely will keep updates! I still don't even know if I'm going to get him but fingers crossed!


----------



## holtzchick

*whitelop wrote: *


> I just read all the way through your blog! I just realized that you post on my blog all the time and I've never read yours. :baghead
> Phoenix is BEAUTIFUL! I love her coloring! She seems like a total sweetie. I hope you get your big Hippo the Bun, he looks adorable. I hope Phoenix likes him.
> 
> Just wait until your marjoram grows and you smell it. It smells so good, I got Foo some and couldn't stop smelling it because it was wonderful!
> 
> Your loft looks so beautiful, I'm jealous. My house is the total opposite! hahaha.
> 
> I really look forward to reading more about Phoenix and her hopefully soon to be husbun.



Thanks .... Marjoram is actually very commonly used in Polish cuisine and there people use it as often as people here use parsley. It does smell very good doesn't it. I love dill as well, Polish people often use it in their cuisine too. 

I cannot wait to post updates and meet the bun... I need to get another playpen but I don't feel like going to spend another $80 on one... perhaps I can find one on Kijiji. 
Where theres a will, there's always Kijiji.... LOL.


----------



## Imbrium

*holtzchick wrote: *


> That is cheating! None the less, I still want my garden to look like yours


in my defense, the actual plants were $3-4 at home depot and I figured that way the bunnies wouldn't have to wait nearly as long to start getting noms


----------



## holtzchick

Well that's good to hear on the other hand I hate playing the waiting game. 

Hippo is 5 years old and is not too much of a chewer. After I send proof of Phoenix's spay and a new picture of the enclosure which I did not have set up yet.... Hmmm I think I'll get to meet him this weekend if all goes well


----------



## agnesthelion

Hippo is gorgeous! I sure hope that things go good with the bonding too. It can be stressful and tedious at times but it sure was worth it in the end to see Agnes and Archie together 

I'll be watching for updates!


----------



## rabbit hutches 2u

Shocking, hope all goes well and thank god for people like you


----------



## holtzchick

Thank You! 

Speaking of updates.... 

My boyfriend is going to be mad when he gets home.... I did some re-arranging today and turned our living room into a bunny bonanza...  

I think this is the set up I will keep until they are bonded, it seems pretty good and I left a little space between the pens. 

















I think Phoenix is actually happier in this setting. She is getting natural light from the window. I zip tied her tunnel to her playpen since every morning I can hear her running through it and it sliding... 

As for Hippo... I have decided to rename him Hippogryff... My boyfriend and I have been watching a lot of Harry Potter lately and since there is a Pheonix in there, there is also a Hippogryff... That way I don't have to change him name too much. 

"A Hippogriff (also spelled Hippogryph and Hippogryphe, Italian: Ippogrifo) is a legendary creature, supposedly the offspring of a griffin and a mare." 

They are both my legendary little creatures! 

Plant updates. 

My basil is looking fantastic, and as you can see, now my dill or maybe marjoram has sprouted. The coriander and the chives can supposedly take longer than 2 weeks. 
















and... my lucky bamboo plant isn't so lucky itself. I don't know what to do, I clean it out once a week, I added some fertilizer for nutrients and I water it daily, it is near a window... Perhaps it is just bad genetics.


----------



## agnesthelion

That looks like a great setup for the buns! They will be able to see each other but not get at each other. And the natural light through the window is nice. Your apartment looks gorgeous. I love the clean lines and crispness of your place. It appeals to my neat freak personality 

The bunny garden is doing so good I know nothing about bamboo


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## whitelop

Awww I love Hippogryff's new name! I loved the Harry Potter books and movies! 

I bet Phoenix IS happier being in the living room! She gets to be a part of everything now and you have such nice windows, with such great light. 
I can't wait to hear when Hippogryff gets home, I'm so excited for you! 

Whats wrong with your bamboo? Is it yellowing or not growing? I don't know much about bamboo, but I probably wouldn't water it everyday. Like every other day. But I could be WAY wrong.


----------



## holtzchick

agnesthelion wrote:


> That looks like a great setup for the buns! They will be able to see each other but not get at each other. And the natural light through the window is nice. Your apartment looks gorgeous. I love the clean lines and crispness of your place. It appeals to my neat freak personality
> 
> The bunny garden is doing so good I know nothing about bamboo



Thank you and thank you again. I am somewhat of a neat freak myself, I totally understand! 

The garden is actually sprouting up like crazy!! I will take some more pictures when it is light outside. Seems like it just sprung up over night!


----------



## holtzchick

whitelop wrote:


> Awww I love Hippogryff's new name! I loved the Harry Potter books and movies!
> 
> I bet Phoenix IS happier being in the living room! She gets to be a part of everything now and you have such nice windows, with such great light.
> I can't wait to hear when Hippogryff gets home, I'm so excited for you!
> 
> Whats wrong with your bamboo? Is it yellowing or not growing? I don't know much about bamboo, but I probably wouldn't water it everyday. Like every other day. But I could be WAY wrong.



Thank you  for the last week we have been harry potter manics! We have watched each movie in order were only on the 4th one. 

As for the bamboo, it seems like its leaves are yellowing and wilting. I should think bamboo always needs water it says to keep the water 1 inch above the rocks at all times.... :/


----------



## JBun

Maybe it needs some sort of plant food. Berry plants will start to yellow from lack of nutrients. Of course, overwatering can do it too, but I know absolutely nothing about bamboo.


----------



## holtzchick

Thanks JBun, I kind of agree, maybe a trip to get plant food is in order. 

As I mentioned, it seems like the herbs have sprouted overnight!! 

Dill & Marjoram





Cilantro and Chives




(The cilantro is starting slowly )

Basil and Parsley (I don't see Parsley :?)





Yesterday, I caught Phoenix flopped over and thought it was adorable, I snapped a quick picture before she got up but it's kind of difficult to see






I swear she is just happier in the living room and I think it is all the natural light and the central location. Last night I came home to binkies and binky 500's! She never really binkies. Here she is enjoying this mornings selection of pellets, oat & timothy hay, and dandelion, arugula, bok choy and romaine lettuce.






I spoke to Hippogryff's foster mom last night, I am picking him up some time this week and apparently he weighs 5.5 lbs, thats just one pound heavier than Phoenix. Oh and he is a very food motivated bunny, there isn't a bunny safe food that he doesn't like... I hope this means he is not prone to boughts of gas and stasis.  

Sorry for the long updates lately! Thanks all for reading!


----------



## Ilovemyrabbit

Thats great! I can't wait to see more pics of Hippogryff he is gorgeous.


----------



## Imbrium

*holtzchick wrote: *


> Basil and Parsley (I don't see Parsley :?)


looks to me like there's one tiny parsley sprout up against the ID card


----------



## Ilovemyrabbit

*Imbrium wrote: *


> *holtzchick wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> Basil and Parsley (I don't see Parsley :?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> looks to me like there's one tiny parsley sprout up against the ID card
Click to expand...

I think I can see it too.


----------



## Imbrium

whee!


----------



## agnesthelion

Omg a new bun this week. Yay! Can't wait to hear!


----------



## holtzchick

agnesthelion wrote:


> Omg a new bun this week. Yay! Can't wait to hear!



Yes Thursday there will be a new bun  and it will be hippogryff. 
I cant wait either just hope the poop wars aren't too bad!


----------



## agnesthelion

holtzchick wrote:


> agnesthelion wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Omg a new bun this week. Yay! Can't wait to hear!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes Thursday there will be a new bun  and it will be hippogryff.
> I cant wait either just hope the poop wars aren't too bad!
Click to expand...


Hippogryff is so cute!

The poop wars were pretty bad for me  and I'm a neat freak like you! The really bad thing? They still do it! Well, I don't think they are marking territory anymore because they are bonded and in one cage but I think they got in the habit so bad of pooping at the border of the two cages that that is where they still poop. I can't fit a litterbox there so every morning I'm picking up tons of poop pellets. I greet them every morning with "well good morning my little poop machines!" it sucks but I'm just getting used to it I guess........
The good thing is they only do it it night AND they never had any pee accidents through all of this and pee is worse then poop anyway.


----------



## whitelop

I am so excited for you! I can't wait to read about when he gets home! I don't know much about poop wars, but hopefully it won't last too long. 
My goodness Phoenix is SO pretty. I'm in love with her ears! She and Hippogryff will look so good together.


----------



## holtzchick

*agnesthelion wrote: *


> holtzchick wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> agnesthelion wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Omg a new bun this week. Yay! Can't wait to hear!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes Thursday there will be a new bun  and it will be hippogryff.
> I cant wait either just hope the poop wars aren't too bad!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hippogryff is so cute!
> 
> The poop wars were pretty bad for me  and I'm a neat freak like you! The really bad thing? They still do it! Well, I don't think they are marking territory anymore because they are bonded and in one cage but I think they got in the habit so bad of pooping at the border of the two cages that that is where they still poop. I can't fit a litterbox there so every morning I'm picking up tons of poop pellets. I greet them every morning with "well good morning my little poop machines!" it sucks but I'm just getting used to it I guess........
> The good thing is they only do it it night AND they never had any pee accidents through all of this and pee is worse then poop anyway.
Click to expand...


Awhhh  ... I'm already kind of used to picking up stray poops in the cage since phoenix is about 80 % in the litter box. Yeah, pee is way worse, thank god I don't have any of those accidents


----------



## holtzchick

*whitelop wrote: *


> I am so excited for you! I can't wait to read about when he gets home! I don't know much about poop wars, but hopefully it won't last too long.
> My goodness Phoenix is SO pretty. I'm in love with her ears! She and Hippogryff will look so good together.



Thanks! :biggrin: I'm hoping so. Her fur is getting prettier from the veggies. As for her ears, it's a shame that I've never gotten a picture but when she is exploring something new, she puts her ears all the way back and it is the cutest thing! She was doing that with the Christmas tree yesterday.


----------



## whitelop

Oh my, if you got a picture of her ears like that I would be so happy! Rabbit ears are my favorite physical part of a rabbit! I LOVE them!


----------



## holtzchick

Morgan, wish granted... so not the best poses but still one ears up, one ears down


----------



## whitelop

That just made my night! I was in semi-bad mood, but now i feel better! She is SO pretty.


----------



## Ilovemyrabbit

I'm just getting to know this new software... it is definitely different! do you like it?


----------



## holtzchick

Ah personally I don't like it.. I think it's just because it's hard on the eyes for me. The other one was so clean and easy to spot what you needed to. I guess I have to get used to it though... I do also have some plant updates after since all of them grew a whole lot I think I will be replanting them into bigger pots this weekend!


----------



## holtzchick

I feel absolutely horrible today! I forgot that I ran out of veggies yesterday and now I have to wait till tomorrow morning to get veggies for Phoenix. In the meantime I just gave her a little more pellets than I normally would, she should be okay for today. 

As for Hippogryff's playpen, Phoenix will now jump on the Christmas tree stand and just hop right in so I guess I have to move that tonight. It was actually kind of funny because I was getting ready to leave upstairs and I heard a noise and when I came down Phoenix was locked up in his pen.... Yeah I really hope that doesn't happen again since he's coming home tomorrow night! I'm so excited  

He will be here just in time for their veggie garden to be ready (I think)... Here are some pictures! I can't believe how unbelievably quickly they grew. Oh, and in terms of the bamboo plant, it turns out the leaves will wilt and turn yellow from too many nutrients! No more nutrients for lucky bamboo !! Anyways, here are some pictures! 

Basil and Parsley







Dill and Marjoram 






Chives and Cilantro


----------



## whitelop

WOW! Your plants look great! 

I'm SO excited for you to get Hippogryff! That is awesome! Post lots of pictures, I want to live vicariously through you getting another bunny!


----------



## agnesthelion

Omg your garden did grow SO fast! I'm so excited for you to get hippogryff. You know we will all be anxiously awaiting announcement and pics of his arrival!


----------



## agnesthelion

Sooooooo.....is he home??


----------



## holtzchick

SOOOOO....  

I am so excited! Boyfriend and I CANNOT sleep for the life of us! When we went to see him we didn't think he was going to be that big! He's about 6 and some ought lbs. 
He is very calm, yet friendly but he seems shy in the sense that he will not come to you so some training will be in order  (with lots of love and treats of course!). He was only at his foster home for 2 months and so, since the day he was there, his foster home had been given a big box that he likes to chew on from his original home. He feels safe in the box so I also took the box home with me. For the first hour, he didn't do anything but sit/lay in his box, I thought maybe he had a tummy upset since I had offered veggies/pellets/hay and he didn't take. I then tried to give him a banana slice and he nearly took my finger off from excitement!! That brought him out of his shell and had him exploring in no time! He's a Californian REW on the small side and he's as sweet as can be!






All nommed out... (yes, he does an awesome DBF :biggrin2 






Surprisingly, the buns reacted very well to eachother, of course only through the cages so far! Hippogryff was very calm and laid back and Phoenix was very excited and she just wanted to check this new guy out! I couldn't help but let Phoenix out since I was busy the entire day and felt bad because she was chewing the bars of the pen. I let her out for a little out time and all she wanted to do was run around, though she did stop a few times to check Hippogryff out. I was there to make sure no biting happened through the bars and at one point, he just flopped next to her!!  I think she's just too excited for now, she will settle down eventually. 

My little princess nomming on salad since I was a bad mommy yesterday and didn't give her any!!






I also caught her doing something funny this morning and had to take a picture!






I think they will do well together! I can`t wait to get to know him more! 
More updates will follow. He will get his out of cage time tomorrow morning and she will follow in the evening when I get home from work. In the mean time, I put an extra gate in between their two playpens to prevent any moving of the pens or biting through the bars  

Thanks for reading all, sorry it`s long!!


----------



## JBun

I'm so excited for you and Phoenix! I can't wait to see how they get along. He's such a cutie  That's pretty good to get a dbf on the first day. He must be feeling pretty comfortable. You must have won him over with the nana. That's funny how exited he all the sudden got about having a treat. 

Lol, Phoenix is too funny. I can't believe she climbed into her hay bin. I hope my own rabbits don't get any funny ideas about doing something like that


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## whitelop

AHHHH! I'm SO excited he's home! Like spilled my coffee on me excited! 
He is GORGEOUS! Or should I say handsome because he's a boy?! haha. 

Aww, he does a really good DBF! I love his color points and his little tail because its darker. I really hope they do well together and I'm sure they will. If he is already that comfortable to flop out you must have a 'made-for-bunny-house' lol. 

I can not wait to see updates on them! And more pictures! hahah. You know I love me some Phoenix ears and now some Hippogryff points! lol. (I've already had too much coffee and its only 9am. Sorry, I got a little excited.)

Your name is Michelle isn't it? Do you mind if I call you by your first name?


----------



## agnesthelion

Omg yay!!!!! He's home! I checked your blog first thing to see if he was. 
What a great DBF!! He's a pro  seems to be pretty comfortable already. And what a big guy!! It sounds as though Phoenix is reacting pretty good. Can't wait to hear more! Don't apologize for the length....I love reading about bunny love stories 
Congrats!


----------



## holtzchick

Haha thanks all... And yes my name is Michelle please feel free to call me by it as its better than holtzchick  

Ahhh well Phoenix is being VERY territorial and anytime he goes near her cage she stops what she is doing and runs back and forth and will grunt. He is more calm although when he approaches her through bars, he will also lung forward. I made a cover to go on her cage and now I need to make one for his because they definitely cannot be out even one at a time. It stresses me out only because I don't like seeing either of the reactions. I know patience and very slow steps are the way to do it though!

By the way I really do appreciate that you were so excited that Hippogryff is here  I love blogging here on RO everyone is super awesome and friendly!


----------



## agnesthelion

holtzchick said:


> Haha thanks all... And yes my name is Michelle please feel free to call me by it as its better than holtzchick
> 
> Ahhh well Phoenix is being VERY territorial and anytime he goes near her cage she stops what she is doing and runs back and forth and will grunt. He is more calm although when he approaches her through bars, he will also lung forward. I made a cover to go on her cage and now I need to make one for his because they definitely cannot be out even one at a time. It stresses me out only because I don't like seeing either of the reactions. I know patience and very slow steps are the way to do it though!



Hmm, I never had any lunging or grunting from my two. Did they date at all before you brought them home?

I would keep an eye on that behavior. If it seems to get worse you might want to keep them in different rooms. Reason being is they could develop a distaste for one another before they officially meet. If it continues to get worse, then once they do meet it's like they say "hey your that bunny i don't like!" and a fight could happen. I'm not saying it will for sure, I just want everything to go as good as possible for your two 
Hopefully it stops though and they start getting used to each other. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed and watching for any updates! :clapping:


----------



## holtzchick

Updates!! 

I have since decided to put cardboard up on the buns' playpens especially Phoenix's playpen since yesterday she almost hopped out by gripping onto the bedsheet I initially tried. 

My neat freak self is going nuts because its not a very pretty sight! 
















I must say though, it definitely worked! Neither of them seem to be too bad. Phoenix is not going crazy inside of her cage anymore when I let Hippogryff out!! I've never noticed how much energy she has though! Hippogryff is both bigger than her in size and weighs more but he eats less than she does! She just burns everything up her energy is crazy high. He's fine with 1/4 pellets a day and will still have some left over, Phoenix will eat 1/4 pellets a day, 2 cups of greens and *still *have room for all of her hay! (Seems she's taken to eating hay since Hippogryff's arrival. 

I do keep a gate in between the two pens when one is out of their cage but when they are both caged, I remove it so they can see each other and they don't really react at all and they sit near each other. I also noticed that when Phoenix nipped at him through the bars before the cardboard was up, her ears were not back she was not in attack mode but when he nipped back it was because he didn't like her reaction to him. 

I will be leaving them in this set up for atleast 3 weeks, just to test it out. I have the next 2 days off so I will be giving lots of out of cage time for both and lots of petting to help mix their scents!!  (treats don't hurt either!)

Hippogryff is very protective of his box as it is his safe space. I went to reach in there earlier to pet him on the head as I spoke softly to him and he kind of jumped forward and grunted at me! After he did come out though and receive some pets  

Here he is nomming some hay! 






I also caught Phoenix mid run and thought it was cute, came out a little dark though!






This experience makes me realize how bonded she is to me. When my boyfriend walks by her play pen, she normally just goes about what she is doing, when I walk by, she follows me step for step. She loves the crap out of me. I'm hoping in time she can give her love to Hippogryff! :bunny24

On a personal note, this week I feel like I've been working non-stop and haven't had time to sit down. I do feel better though since i've started running every other day and eating regularly. I started taking a pre-workout energizer and a post work out energy stabilizer called Vega Sport and it's been amazing! I feel like a million dollars. It's basically all natural "vegan" grade shakes with no dairy, soy or anything artificial and I can run like crazy with them. Anyways, had to get that out there since not many people are a fan of the line since they say that these aren't strong enough, they don't work, blah blah blah. I am a HUGE fan of these and now my boyfriend is too ... 

Goodnight, and thank you for those that have been following and sending helpful advice/replies.:wiggle


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## whitelop

I'm glad that they've kind of calmed down, or at least Phoenix has calmed down a bit! 
The cardboard isn't pretty, but hey, whatever works! lol. 

It sounds to me like Hippogryff has a little bit of hutch aggression. That is a difficult thing to deal with, Foo has major hutch aggression and has bitten me twice. Once through the middle of my thumb nail and the second time not to long ago and she did serious damage to my index finger. There are ways to deal with it, but I don't know how soon to start that since he just got to his new home and he's probably still just a little nervous. Maybe that was a one time thing and he won't do it again. 
But if he does, press his head and shoulders down to the floor for a few seconds and he'll understand he is being disciplined. Hopefully it doesn't come to that though!  
They're both so pretty! :rabbithop


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## JBun

You could try treats too, to try and train his initial response to something positive instead. Try luring him out of the box with a treat and then pet him. 

I used to think the pressing the head down discipline would work to teach my cage aggressive bun that she's not allowed to do that with me, but it seems to be freaking her out even more, so I'm having to rethink my methods.


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## tmaddox9

Great setup! Harry Potter fan too so love the names and Phoenix is gorgeous! Good luck with those herbs. Mint grows very easily too and buns love it. Just no chives for the bunnies, it's not a bunny safe food being kin to garlic and onions. I grow basil in the summer and parsley but I have five buns and two are Flemish Giants so its hard to grow enough for everyone. In fact I go t rough an amazing amount of greens and hay in a week!


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## whitelop

JBun said:


> You could try treats too, to try and train his initial response to something positive instead. Try luring him out of the box with a treat and then pet him.
> 
> I used to think the pressing the head down discipline would work to teach my cage aggressive bun that she's not allowed to do that with me, but it seems to be freaking her out even more, so I'm having to rethink my methods.


Thats kind of good to know that it isn't working. I think I've tried it like one time with Foo and she is still aggressive, but I wasn't very consistent. It always freaks me out when she lunges at my hand and I just walk away from her and don't do anything about it. haha. Thanks for sharing that Jenny! 
I think a lot of people suggest that method for hutch aggression, even for me, so thats why I suggested it.

So Michelle, don't listen to me! lol. It may freak him out more instead of 'fix' the problem!


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## tmaddox9

If the cardboard bothers you try corrugated plastic. It comes in sheets from your local mega hardware store or hobby shop and can be cut with a box cutter. Bunnies don't usually like to chew on it like cardboard. Poke a hole through it with a screw driver and use cable ties to secure it. And it's white so it looks nicer than cardboard and its water proof so it wipes clean with a damp rag. I am using it on my head tilt bunny's pen so he doesn't scatter stuff all over the room when he rolls. Hippogryff is adorable. I love ruby-eyed bunnies!


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## holtzchick

whitelop said:


> I'm glad that they've kind of calmed down, or at least Phoenix has calmed down a bit!
> The cardboard isn't pretty, but hey, whatever works! lol.
> 
> It sounds to me like Hippogryff has a little bit of hutch aggression. That is a difficult thing to deal with, Foo has major hutch aggression and has bitten me twice. Once through the middle of my thumb nail and the second time not to long ago and she did serious damage to my index finger. There are ways to deal with it, but I don't know how soon to start that since he just got to his new home and he's probably still just a little nervous. Maybe that was a one time thing and he won't do it again.
> But if he does, press his head and shoulders down to the floor for a few seconds and he'll understand he is being disciplined. Hopefully it doesn't come to that though!
> They're both so pretty! :rabbithop




I dont think he has any sort of hutch aggression since when I clean his cage or pet him he is fine... Also no litter box aggression either 

I think he just needs to adjust to us becoming his new home (bribery will help) and this little guy is a huge sucker for toys he just loves them which is great because I have a ton that are not even touched since phoenix doesn't bother with toys.


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## holtzchick

tmaddox9 said:


> Great setup! Harry Potter fan too so love the names and Phoenix is gorgeous! Good luck with those herbs. Mint grows very easily too and buns love it. Just no chives for the bunnies, it's not a bunny safe food being kin to garlic and onions. I grow basil in the summer and parsley but I have five buns and two are Flemish Giants so its hard to grow enough for everyone. In fact I go t rough an amazing amount of greens and hay in a week!



Hahha thanks yeah we've been going through potter fever lately or so it seems. As for coroplast, I did think of that but it is really just for a few weeks so I can deal with the cardboard because the nearest home depot is a little far from me and since I live right in downtown Mississauga I don't have a vehicle. 

Thanks anyways for the pictures. I hadn't realized how many people read this blog and this morning I was overwhelmed with posts :wiggle


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## qtipthebun

Ahhh! He's so cute! The bunny I fell in love with and wanted to bond to Q (she talked me out of it, the little diva) was a REW Californian too. SO precious. Needless to say, I find the breed totally beyond adorable. I love the red eyes! He's such a cutie and she's...well, gorgeous as always (and she knows it, right?). Keep picture updating...they're the cutest little things ever.


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## agnesthelion

Glad the cardboard works! I hear ya on the neat freak thing. There were some temporary setups when I was bonding my two that I hated as well. But at least it's temporary!

That's funny that you are noticing Pheonix's energy now that you have a new bun to compare. I noticed things too after Archie was home! It's so fun having two because it helps you notice their unique personalities even more.

I'm glad things have calmed down a bit. And as time passes it will get even better. I remember when my two were doing alternate time out play at the beginning the "locked up" bun was always SO hyped up to get out with the other one! But towards the end they didn't even bat an eye at each other.

Good for you for running every other day. I'm envious! I'm a runner too but had an injury in feb of 2012 and I haven't ran since. How horrible!! My injury is fine but I just got out of the habit and I can't seem to motivate myself back into it  

I will be watching for more updates on the bonding! Sounds like you have a good plan in place. Oh and by the way, Agnes is super bonded to me too. And her relationship with Archie didn't change that in the least and you can tell she loves Archie in a different way. I'm sure that's how Phoenix will be too


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Great you got Hippogryff! I just read it. Yay , I'm so happy for you! 

I know the cardboard looks bad,but at least it is working.

Hippogryff is definitely a handsome little fellow . I hope the bonding works out.


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Any news???


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## holtzchick

qtipthebun said:


> Ahhh! He's so cute! The bunny I fell in love with and wanted to bond to Q (she talked me out of it, the little diva) was a REW Californian too. SO precious. Needless to say, I find the breed totally beyond adorable. I love the red eyes! He's such a cutie and she's...well, gorgeous as always (and she knows it, right?). Keep picture updating...they're the cutest little things ever.



Thank you  They are cute, some of their habits really bug me though! :bunny16


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## holtzchick

agnesthelion said:


> Glad the cardboard works! I hear ya on the neat freak thing. There were some temporary setups when I was bonding my two that I hated as well. But at least it's temporary!
> 
> That's funny that you are noticing Pheonix's energy now that you have a new bun to compare. I noticed things too after Archie was home! It's so fun having two because it helps you notice their unique personalities even more.
> 
> I'm glad things have calmed down a bit. And as time passes it will get even better. I remember when my two were doing alternate time out play at the beginning the "locked up" bun was always SO hyped up to get out with the other one! But towards the end they didn't even bat an eye at each other.
> 
> Good for you for running every other day. I'm envious! I'm a runner too but had an injury in feb of 2012 and I haven't ran since. How horrible!! My injury is fine but I just got out of the habit and I can't seem to motivate myself back into it
> 
> I will be watching for more updates on the bonding! Sounds like you have a good plan in place. Oh and by the way, Agnes is super bonded to me too. And her relationship with Archie didn't change that in the least and you can tell she loves Archie in a different way. I'm sure that's how Phoenix will be too



They do have 2 different personalities! It's crazy and I have noticed they are getting more calm about each other! I'm still jealous of your buns though. They are just perfect for each other!!!


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## holtzchick

Ilovemyrabbit said:


> Any news???



yes! You read my mind, I was just coming on here to do updates. 

Sorry I have been very sick lately and haven't found it in me to edit pictures (let alone clean litter boxes in the morning) I'm just a little off my game! :imsick:

As for the buns, well, I actually think they are getting used to each other beautifully. 

I sometimes catch them laying together when in their cages, usually Phoenix looks more flopped out except she heard the camera. 







Then this morning when I let him out, he kept going over to her cage and trying to see inside. 






A little later on, he actually flopped right where that picture was taken  

This morning when I let her out, I normally don't let their noses touch through the bars but I'm pretty sure she snuck over to his cage and I *think* I saw them for a second though nothing happened I think he just licked her !! That seems quite good. 

I always let Phoenix out first in the morning because she will just rattle the bars on her cage if I don't. I end up letting him out when they get fed because he could care less about food and she's a little fatty :bunnybutt:

He was pretty good, he mostly grooms himself and binkies unless he is ripping the cardboard off of her cage which I don't allow since I'm worried it will make her territorial and aggressive. He was sweet, and allows me to pet him for atleast 20 minutes at a time but definitely has his boundaries. He actually clawed at me this morning because he didn't like me touching his nose. I guess that's the one thing about him that bothers me because Phoenix will allow me to do everything with her, I have so much trust with her, but every bunny has their boundaries and I love him in his own way. 


Under the coffee table (_must both *love* my rug?!!)

_





He's still running around. and I think he's about to hop onto the couch. I cannot wait until he gains my trust. Now I finally know that he trust me more because my boyfriend went to give him banana this morning and he wouldn't take it, I gave it to him and he gobbled it  hahaha. Then again, I spend so much time with them! It's kind of cool that Hippogryff LOVES to play with his toys! When he's doing something bad, I can just give him a toy to distract him. It's pretty great! 

Until next time... 
Thank you for following their blog!!!


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## agnesthelion

Things seem to be going fantastically! Yay! I really think they are making progress towards accepting each others existence, if you will, which is needed to start bonding. So congrats on that!

Phoenix and your relationship sounds very similar to Agnes and mine. I never realized that before. When you said you love Hippogryff in a different way I can totally relate! Agnes is just so trusting of me. And she basically has no boundaries. I can hardly even think of a time where she has "complained" about anything I've done. And she follows me around and doesn't leave my side when I'm with her.  Archie on the other hand complains alot. He comes up for pets and i will say he does love being petted for sure but he has his boundaries and definitely is opinionated. So I think Agnes is my heart bunny. Archie will never be like her. I love him, but definitely in a different way


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## Imbrium

phoenix sitting underneath the hay rack has got to be one of the cutest things ever!



JBun said:


> You could try treats too, to try and train his initial response to something positive instead. Try luring him out of the box with a treat and then pet him.



that's the same general idea as what I've been having to do with my crabby sugar glider who gets bitey with me sometimes - I dip my finger in a licky treat of some sort (usually the bunnies' apple/wild blueberry baby food) and when I open the pouch and she starts to crab, I stick my finger in... she lunges at my finger but smells the treat before her teeth make contact with my hand and promptly changes her mind and starts licking my finger instead of crabbing and biting.



tmaddox9 said:


> If the cardboard bothers you try corrugated plastic. It comes in sheets from your local mega hardware store or hobby shop and can be cut with a box cutter. Bunnies don't usually like to chew on it like cardboard.



oh really? I guess Nala and Gaz missed the memo about that >.>


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## whitelop

I'm so glad they seem more comfortable with each other now! 

Foo has been with me for 2 years and she is pretty bonded to me. I bet it is interesting to get a new bun and see the differences. Like you're seeing now, they're all so different! 
When do you think you're going to formally introduce them? I wouldn't be able to stand the anticipation of it! Are you going to wait a while? 
I know I'm going to be sitting on the edge of my seat when I read the posts about bonding! 

I really love the picture of Hippogryff standing all the way up, I love to see their little legs all stretched out. I bet they love your rug because it looks plushy and soft. 

PS. I hope you feel better! Drink some tea and snuggle with a bun!


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## holtzchick

agnesthelion said:


> Things seem to be going fantastically! Yay! I really think they are making progress towards accepting each others existence, if you will, which is needed to start bonding. So congrats on that!
> 
> Phoenix and your relationship sounds very similar to Agnes and mine. I never realized that before. When you said you love Hippogryff in a different way I can totally relate! Agnes is just so trusting of me. And she basically has no boundaries. I can hardly even think of a time where she has "complained" about anything I've done. And she follows me around and doesn't leave my side when I'm with her.  Archie on the other hand complains alot. He comes up for pets and i will say he does love being petted for sure but he has his boundaries and definitely is opinionated. So I think Agnes is my heart bunny. Archie will never be like her. I love him, but definitely in a different way


 

Yes! I loved my bunny Peter because he was so sweet and gentle, but from the day that I had found Phoenix, I just knew she was meant to be with me!! :heartbeat:
She is just always so grateful for everything! She licks me whenever she can to show it! She makes my heart melt completely which is something I'm sure that Agnes makes you do. She is my heart bunny. 

I do love Hippogryff in a different way. He's silly but you know what I really haven't gotten to know him yet, so I'm sure my love will grow!


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## holtzchick

Imbrium said:


> phoenix sitting underneath the hay rack has got to be one of the cutest things ever!
> 
> 
> 
> that's the same general idea as what I've been having to do with my crabby sugar glider who gets bitey with me sometimes - I dip my finger in a licky treat of some sort (usually the bunnies' apple/wild blueberry baby food) and when I open the pouch and she starts to crab, I stick my finger in... she lunges at my finger but smells the treat before her teeth make contact with my hand and promptly changes her mind and starts licking my finger instead of crabbing and biting.
> 
> 
> 
> oh really? I guess Nala and Gaz missed the memo about that >.>



Ha. Ha. Ha.... yeah, your two are the exception to the rule!!!! 

I have been luring Hippogryff out with treats and letting him out when it is very quiet because I noticed that he's not very comfortable coming out when we are doing things around the house. 

I'm heading to your blog and I hope you posted because I miss my dosage of Nala and Gaz.... or as I will call them *NAZ *


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## holtzchick

whitelop said:


> I'm so glad they seem more comfortable with each other now!
> 
> Foo has been with me for 2 years and she is pretty bonded to me. I bet it is interesting to get a new bun and see the differences. Like you're seeing now, they're all so different!
> When do you think you're going to formally introduce them? I wouldn't be able to stand the anticipation of it! Are you going to wait a while?
> I know I'm going to be sitting on the edge of my seat when I read the posts about bonding!
> 
> I really love the picture of Hippogryff standing all the way up, I love to see their little legs all stretched out. I bet they love your rug because it looks plushy and soft.
> 
> PS. I hope you feel better! Drink some tea and snuggle with a bun!




Honest to god, I cannot wait to introduce them but I keep telling myself for their own good, I will wait until Hippogryff has officially been here for 3 weeks to do it. It's only been 1 week and I don't want to complicate anything. I actually feel like it's a hassle to have them separated, so I look at it as I take longer to bond them but then I am almost guaranteed to have the go ahead from them 

Thank you but it's not that kind of sick.... the doctor thinks I caught a parasite or something from somewhere so my digestive system is MESSED  

Thank you so much though!! I really appreciate everyone reading this blog once again. I love logging into this forum, it's one of my favorite parts of the day.


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## whitelop

OH NO! I'm sorry its that kind of sick! Thats terrible. I really hope you feel better soon! I know what its like to have issues like that and its absolutely terrible. Foo and I are sending you hugs and love! Feel better!


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Yay, things seem to be doing great then! I'm glad he licked her that definitely is a good sign. 

I found this on youtube and just had to share it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qIZPMZJgWU

I hope you feel better soon ray: I know how you feel I'm sick too


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## Imbrium

aww, hope you feel better! being sick is so godawful!

if you're bribing him with treats, you should try pomegranate-infused craisins (I found 'em at walmart in the raisin section) - my bunns go INSANE over them! they like 'em way better than regular craisins, which they liked better than raisins.


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## holtzchick

whitelop said:


> OH NO! I'm sorry its that kind of sick! Thats terrible. I really hope you feel better soon! I know what its like to have issues like that and its absolutely terrible. Foo and I are sending you hugs and love! Feel better!




Thank you!


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## holtzchick

Ilovemyrabbit said:


> Yay, things seem to be doing great then! I'm glad he licked her that definitely is a good sign.
> 
> I found this on youtube and just had to share it
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qIZPMZJgWU
> 
> I hope you feel better soon ray: I know how you feel I'm sick too




Thanks! That link was so cute! My boyfriend actually loved it!!


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## holtzchick

Imbrium said:


> aww, hope you feel better! being sick is so godawful!
> 
> if you're bribing him with treats, you should try pomegranate-infused craisins (I found 'em at walmart in the raisin section) - my bunns go INSANE over them! they like 'em way better than regular craisins, which they liked better than raisins.



Thank you!! :sunshine:

Aren't craisins bad for them only because they have added sugar? 
I went to go grab a pack and I didn't grab them for that reason, then again it is a treat.


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## holtzchick

Thanks again all, yeah, the sickness is on and off. I'm hoping my tests at the doctors bring something up because it's like, I'm sick, but I'm okay to go to work, but something is definitely wrong....

I know I mentioned in a previous post that Hippogryff flopped beside Phoenixs' cage and of course, I got a picture right after I logged off the forum! Here is a pic of him flopped over, he's all tuckered out from the grooming session we had 






This morning, I had cleaned their cages, and I realized that he spilled half his water all over the cage floor. It wasn't enough to notice right away but I did notice it spilled onto his box so I had cleaned it and flipped it over (no that is not mold on the corner ) Look at the number he'd done on the box in just a week! I think I might get him a cardboard castle for Christmas because lord knows that Phoenix doesn't like to chew! Actually I'm lucky in that sense, both buns do not chew any of my baseboards/furniture 






And finally, he's really really starting to enjoy his salad and he hops right on over when he gets it. Obviously Phoenix eats faster than he does so here she is begging for more and he's tossing his bowl around. I put the bowls side by side so it helps them bond a bit  






I don't know what it is, but ever since Hippogryff came home with us Phoenix eats like crazy!!! I have to refill her hay atleast twice a day, she gets fed pellets twice a day and she noms her salad in minutes! I think she gets the idea that he's going to eat it all if she doesn't finish it! I swear she has so much more energy because of that too! I have to let her out first thing in the morning before I feed them and I let him out after they get fed and it goes the same in the evening! She is just *crazy*. 

He is so calm! He will allow me to pet him for atleast 20 minutes at a time and I am waiting for him to flop onto his side one day because he is so close! He now eagerly hops out of his cage when I let him out because I love massaging his head and ears! He also likes being mischievous and when he knows he's doing something he is not supposed to and I walk over to stop him, right before I get there, he will run away and binky like no tomorrow! 

They are such characters! I think I will wait 3 weeks until introducing them. 2 weeks in their cages and I will switch their cages for the remainder week. 
It's looking good and now when they have contact through the bars, it's a few seconds, but neither bite, they just kind of sniff ... Yay for bunnies!! inkbouce:


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## agnesthelion

He sure does like cardboard! It's funny what certain things each one prefers. 

He sure looks comfortable and he is so handsome. I think he is settling in wonderfully. I did the slow approach with bonding too and it worked great. I think your plan sounds perfect. And it really seems as though they are getting accustomed to each other. If they are checking out each other through the bars with no issues that's a good sign.

In addition to the cage switch you can also switch toys and blankets and food and water bowls and litter boxes. I did that all the time through bonding. It really helps them get used to each others scents.

Way to go and I'm so happy for you can excited to continue following your bonding journey.


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## Imbrium

holtzchick said:


> Thank you!! :sunshine:
> 
> Aren't craisins bad for them only because they have added sugar?
> I went to go grab a pack and I didn't grab them for that reason, then again it is a treat.



yeah, probably... but meh, fruit in general is bad for them. on craisin days, they get maybe 2-3 of them. I figure they love them, it means no fresh fruit to spoil if I don't feel like eating it and it shouldn't be any worse for them than regular fruit as long as they only get them in moderation.


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## holtzchick

Ah, no pictures today, just felt like an update. 

I would just like to take a moment from my blog here and give some condolences to Morgan who has lost her Bunny Foo Foo. Time will heal her pain, and the spirit of Foo will live on in her household just as Peter's lives in mine. It came as a shock to all on the forum, and Foo will certainly not be forgotten especially now that we have all gotten to know her through the stories and now memories that Morgan has shared with us. 

I've also been feeling frustrated today, ever since I found out about Foo last night, it feels like nothing has gone right. This morning, Phoenix was let out and I was still being a space cadet, she happened to go to the bars of Hippos cage and I don't really know what happened but I know he grunted at her. I hope it was just because she was in his space. It's only two weeks since I've had him now and I'm already getting cold feet. I want to be open to bunny bonding, but it really is hard work! I find it difficult since Phoenix needs so much out time and she's constantly ripping at the bars of her cage to get out. Hippogryff needs his out time too! I'm hoping next week when they hit the three week mark they can bunny date and I'm hoping all will be okay but I'm also super worried that perhaps Phoenix will be too high strung for Hippogryff. Even I have noticed that he has his boundaries, and she just has so much energy to boot. Maybe I'm just being negative but I felt I needed to get that out of my system. 

I may post pictures tonight. Just feeling a little drained from doing everything separately is all. 
Thanks for reading. Once again, may Foo binky in peace over the bridge, and hopefully with Peter. 

:innocent


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## holtzchick

Oh, and to boot, shortly after my post, Phoenix urinated in her cage. She has never done that before even when she was unspayed.


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## Chrisdoc

Michelle, am just getting through everyone´s blogs and have just read your from start to finish. I just love Phoenix and what a way to come across her...she sure was a very lucky girl. And Hippogryff is so handsome, I love his colouring and love the way they stretch out to investigate. 

I´m sure they´ll settle down together once you start the serious bond. I think an active chick plus a bit of laid back fella is probably quite a good match. I can´t wait until you get them married off lol.

I love the flat, so much space and so bright. I´m so jealous as mine is so much smaller but I love it and it does have lots of sunlight as well which mine love. Their favourite place for siesta is in the sunshine in front of the window. 

Must check out if I can get some of those tiles for the floor over here as they look so good. My floor is marble and quite cold in the winter although I´ve got a selection of non slip smaller rugs so that they don´t slide all over and they´ve always got somewhere warm to lie on. 

Look forward to hearing more about them and to their forthcoming marriage. 

:happyrabbit:


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## Ilovemyrabbit

:yeahthat:
They are sooo pretty. When you hit the three week mark I hope everything goes well. It will be like a christmas present to you if it does lol.

Yes I am so socked about Foo's death I never thought Foo would leave us so early . I'm going to miss seeing pictures and hearing stories about sweet Foo Foo. But Ellie will help comfort Morgan.


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## agnesthelion

Hey Michelle...
Don't get frustrated. Bonding IS alot of work but I promise it's worth it in the end  I feel like we have some personality traits that are similar....hehe...so I understand how certain negativity can give you cold feet. There were so many times during bonding that I thought pessimistically about something and it all worked out in the end.

Now, with that being said the only thing I worry a little bit about is I did read something somewhere that housing rabbits next to each other that don't "like" each other can actually make them build resentment towards each other. So when they do meet it's like..."hey, you're that bun that bothers me next to my cage all day". So, maybe reconsider the 3 week thing OR maybe seperate them til bonding? I can't say for sure if you should do that....you know your buns the best, but just wanted to give you something to think about. I want this to go as smoothly as possible for you 

As far as one being high energy and one not. Nah, I wouldn't worry about that. That is exactly Archir and Agnes. Arch is the crazy one, Agnes the chill one. If anything I think opposites attract in buns too and they also bring out the best in each other sometimes. 

Lastly, if you think they are getting too territorial already you might start some switching now...like litterboxes, bowls, toys etc. And the peeing thing. Yeah, that's a bummer but it's pretty common for litterbox habits to get out of whack a little bit. I'm sure it will go back to normal.

Sorry for the long post. I'm just rooting for you SO SO much and I hate to hear you getting discouraged. Remember, bonding can be a series of forwards and backs. And it takes time too. You got this


----------



## holtzchick

Chrisdoc said:


> Michelle, am just getting through everyone´s blogs and have just read your from start to finish. I just love Phoenix and what a way to come across her...she sure was a very lucky girl. And Hippogryff is so handsome, I love his colouring and love the way they stretch out to investigate.
> 
> I´m sure they´ll settle down together once you start the serious bond. I think an active chick plus a bit of laid back fella is probably quite a good match. I can´t wait until you get them married off lol.
> 
> I love the flat, so much space and so bright. I´m so jealous as mine is so much smaller but I love it and it does have lots of sunlight as well which mine love. Their favourite place for siesta is in the sunshine in front of the window.
> 
> Must check out if I can get some of those tiles for the floor over here as they look so good. My floor is marble and quite cold in the winter although I´ve got a selection of non slip smaller rugs so that they don´t slide all over and they´ve always got somewhere warm to lie on.
> 
> Look forward to hearing more about them and to their forthcoming marriage.
> 
> :happyrabbit:



Thank you! Your place must be nice though, as Spain is quite beautiful, and the lifestyle ah, it is so different. The foam mats I have in their cage are ones that are used for exercising, they're called anti-fatigue mats. I'm sure you'd be able to find them *somewhere* :/

I already have plans for when they get married... but for the time being they are driving me *insane!! *ullhair:


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## holtzchick

Ilovemyrabbit said:


> :yeahthat:
> They are sooo pretty. When you hit the three week mark I hope everything goes well. It will be like a christmas present to you if it does lol.
> 
> Yes I am so socked about Foo's death I never thought Foo would leave us so early . I'm going to miss seeing pictures and hearing stories about sweet Foo Foo. But Ellie will help comfort Morgan.



It wouldn't only make my Christmas amazing, it would literally make the rest of my year!!!!


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## whitelop

Are they being crazy? I know Phoenix is a ball of energy and Hippogyrff has some boundary issues, but is everything going okay?


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## holtzchick

agnesthelion said:


> Hey Michelle...
> Don't get frustrated. Bonding IS alot of work but I promise it's worth it in the end  I feel like we have some personality traits that are similar....hehe...so I understand how certain negativity can give you cold feet. There were so many times during bonding that I thought pessimistically about something and it all worked out in the end.
> 
> Now, with that being said the only thing I worry a little bit about is I did read something somewhere that housing rabbits next to each other that don't "like" each other can actually make them build resentment towards each other. So when they do meet it's like..."hey, you're that bun that bothers me next to my cage all day". So, maybe reconsider the 3 week thing OR maybe seperate them til bonding? I can't say for sure if you should do that....you know your buns the best, but just wanted to give you something to think about. I want this to go as smoothly as possible for you
> 
> As far as one being high energy and one not. Nah, I wouldn't worry about that. That is exactly Archir and Agnes. Arch is the crazy one, Agnes the chill one. If anything I think opposites attract in buns too and they also bring out the best in each other sometimes.
> 
> Lastly, if you think they are getting too territorial already you might start some switching now...like litterboxes, bowls, toys etc. And the peeing thing. Yeah, that's a bummer but it's pretty common for litterbox habits to get out of whack a little bit. I'm sure it will go back to normal.
> 
> Sorry for the long post. I'm just rooting for you SO SO much and I hate to hear you getting discouraged. Remember, bonding can be a series of forwards and backs. And it takes time too. You got this



What you say definitely rings true. I'm glad you're rooting (almost wrote rotting lol) for me since it is difficult to watch my two separately! I am going to switch their cages this coming Thursday and I have done litter box switches. I think it's more Phoenix that is aggravating Hippo when he is in his cage, since he still lies down out side of hers, but I think he is afraid of her. It's not that they hate each other, they're okay most of the time, its jst they will both purposely bug each other.. She will run up to his cage and pull on the cardboard and he will run up to hers and pull on the cardboard and then binkies afterward. I think once I take them for a car ride or ontop of the washing machine they will do better with each other in neutral territory. 

I'm just hoping it doesn't take super long because it is more difficult giving each one proper out of cage time especially after a long day at work, coming home to them not getting along is hard to watch. 
I'm just jealous of your two that you were so easily able to bond them, but it will be worth it in the end! 

Thanks again for rooting for me


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## holtzchick

whitelop said:


> Are they being crazy? I know Phoenix is a ball of energy and Hippogyrff has some boundary issues, but is everything going okay?



They're like so so. I haven't had too many issues, it's more Phoenix where she will do anything to get his attention through the bars of his cage or squeeze into where she is not supposed to and purposely provoke him to grunt at her. Most of the time he ignores it, but if she really gets in his space he will get mad, I think he is frightened by her as even when she is eating by his cage, he will go in his box. :/ 

It will change soon hopefully but my boyfriend feels bad for Hippogryff and says that Phoenix is just being a B***h.


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## Chrisdoc

Maybe she´s just a naughty chick and trying to provoke him but it still looks as though things will be Ok in the end. I know exactly how you feel having to let them out separately. I had a spell of this after the neuter when Snowy and Houdini unbonded and I had couldn´t let them out together so I had Bandy/Houdini our for a couple of hours then Bandy/Snowy out. It was a real trial but luckily in the end I was able to rebond them and they were full out fighting at that time...I have the gloves to prove it... so anything is possible. 

Patience is all you need and perserverance but all that hard work will reap its own rewards.


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## whitelop

Awww it does sound like she a little trouble maker. Shes like "hey you! look at me!" Its good that he ignores her most of the time though, but when he grunts I guess thats his warning for her to stop. 
Hopefully when they get introduced she'll stop acting like a 3 year old trying to get someones attention. lol Hopefully she'll be like, 'okay, you're here now! I'm good' Then they'll be able to be together. 
I really hope it works out. I don't know much about bonding, so I don't know what to tell you to do. Lisa, is the bonding queen. lol She'll be able to help. 

Sometimes rabbits are silly little creatures and Phoenix is a silly girl. ACTUALLY, Phoenix is my son! He just had something in his hand and was holding it out for me like 10 feet away. So I told him to come here and hand it to me. He just stood there holding it out with this evil little smile on his face! Then finally laughed and ran over to me. That sounds like Phoenix. lmao. See, she's a 18 month old boy, thats where her mind is at!


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## holtzchick

whitelop said:


> ACTUALLY, Phoenix is my son! He just had something in his hand and was holding it out for me like 10 feet away. So I told him to come here and hand it to me. He just stood there holding it out with this evil little smile on his face! Then finally laughed and ran over to me. That sounds like Phoenix. lmao. See, she's a 18 month old boy, thats where her mind is at!




LOL....

The time has come and I have switched their cages this morning. Both seem to be adjusting well to it and I'm amazed at how well Hippogryff is doing without his box. I left it in the cage when I switched them because he needs to learn that it's not only his box! He's also got the purple tunnel to hide out in! :sofa:

I wanted to get them a cardboard castle from BinkyBunny.com but when I added shipping the shipping was more that the actually castle! It cost like $50 altogether and I don't feel like paying that for something I can make for like 3-5$ lol. 

I did get pictures of them though, I think Phoenix was out of her cage and Hippogryff was watching me take the picture  I also got a picture from earlier last week which I caught Phoenix all flopped out and Hippogryff just chilling out, I'm not sure if thats a good sign, but they won't completely flop out any closer to eachother though I have seen them sitting next to each other. When Hippogryff is flopped Phoenix is on the other side of her cage and vice-versa. 

Here are my two little losers :bunnyheart







I'm happy that Phoenix seems fascinated with chewing on the box since nothing really ever interests her (I'm pretty sure it's just to make Hippogryff jealous that he doesn't have the box anymore). 






And here he is in his new cage. Both of them have strewn their salads everywhere! 






I started making them some great salad mixes recently. Veggies I've been giving them are as such: spinach, arugula, green swiss chard, radicchio, basil, rosemary, endive, kohlrabi, dandelion leaves, beet leaves, parsley, cilantro, kale. I can't remember what else at the moment but they both sure are happy when they get their salads. 

Oh and I'm also pretty sure my plants died since last week I was frustrated from a long work week and the bunnies not getting on too well so I didn't water them from a few days. Well, they certainly shriveled up! :laughsmiley:

Update: Phoenix is CRAZY!!! She just cleared the playpen no problem, why must she cause me so many issues :?


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## whitelop

Their salads sound wonderful! I miss making salads like that, I can't wait to do it again. 

I think they're getting use to each other. Unfortunately, I'm not educated well in bonding, so I can't be of much help. But it looks like they're sort of comfortable with eac other. At least Phoenix is. In the top picture, it looks like Hippogryff was about to hop away and do something. And they have made a mess of their cages haven't they? Thats so strange for them. I wonder if its because they're in different houses? lol 

She JUMPED over the playpen? I have that same playpen, I'm looking at it right now. How did she jump over that?! Did she get on Hippogryff's box and hop over? Or did she use the little diamond shapes to climb up? Ahhh. Now I'm worried because I planned on using mine with Ellie once the winter is over and if Phoenix jumped over, Ellie will be able to to!


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## holtzchick

Hmm... I think she got on the box and cleared the side although I can't say because I was in the middle of a conversation with a rep from Mastercard LOL.... I was just like oh sorry can you hold on a second *goes to lift Phoenix BACK into pen and removes box* sorry could you just repeat what you told me... The lady probably thought there was something wierd going on with all the noise! I think you should be okay though, unless she's a jumper.... I had to remove the box... oh Phoenix never ceases to amaze me... :juggle

BTW, is anyone else *LOVING* all these emoticons?!!


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## whitelop

OH I'm so loving all the emoticons! We have some really awesome ones! arty:


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## Chrisdoc

Really made me laugh about Phoenix jumping over the pen. I have to be really careful where I put cardboard boxes or Houdini is over. I put them in the pen while I was cleaning the rest of their stuff a couple of weeks ago and I put the wooden house in there to play in. Low and behold, Houdini was on it and over the fence. Mine is against two walls so I make sure that any boxes are well towards the wall in centre and not right by the fencing or they´d be off. They may be small but they can sure jump high. 

Michelle, your salad sounds identical to the one I make, they love all the same things as mine. I have a whole drawer in the fridge with their stuff and it sometimes spills over onto the shelf but I love giving them a variety.

Sounds as though they´re getting on alright to me, no real disagreements and a bit of pretending to ignore each other. I think they should be OK and will settle into their relationship themselves. 

Still haven´t found anything like your tiles but I´m still looking. they´ve opened a new do-it-yourself store near Malaga airport so I´m going to head over there to have a look over the holidays. 

By the way, don´t you know that our bunny masters are there to give us bunny slaves plenty to do so now and again they go crazy messing up their cages just so we don´t get bored :biggrin2:

:highfive:


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## Imbrium

I have that same purple tunnel... the bunnies love it!

I can just picture Phoenix sitting there taunting him... "nom, nom, nom... MY box!"

hope you can resuscitate the poor plants... I always got mine to come back after a few days of neglect. not so much after the caterpillar rampage, though


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## Ilovemyrabbit

I have that same playpen too, and Ash also jumped over his pen  luckily I caught him, he climbed onto his box and jumped over. Then we had to remove his box.


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## holtzchick

I haven't posted in a while just been kinda stressed, busy and upset with events lately what with the passing of certain bunnies and Lisa leaving RO. 

I will however start this on a positive note and would like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and happy holidays!!! 

I definitely got the best present of all today. This morning the bunnies were stressing me out so badly because they were both being super destructive in each cage I actually ended up in tears and got all choked up. I thought NO way, I am introducing them today because they're driving me crazy!!!! I made a little NIC cube enclosure and wanted to put them ontop of the washing machine since a car ride was not an option. The crate didn't fit ontop of the washing machine so I decided to put them in the tub in it, turn the fan on and turn the hand vac on. I had my boyfriend there and we were both prepared with gloves just in case anything went wrong. 

When we put them inside, we were so nervous. At first, there was a bit of fur but nothing serious just light nipping from Phoenix's side. She really wanted to comfort Hippogryff and she actually groomed him and laid her head onto his. He was more indifferent and just freaked out from the vacuum but that was a better reaction then I expected. We kept it relatively short but they were in there for 15 minutes and then it ended with some petting from myself and once they went into their enclosures (I switched their cages for the night) they each got some banana and their ration of pellets for the night. 

I am so much more positive about this than I was this morning!!! I am going to do another 15 minute session tomorrow night and probably continue for another night following. If all goes well, I will extend it to 30 min. 

Apparently the bonding helped because after eating, they both flopped next to each other in their cages


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## whitelop

I am so glad that their first interaction went so well! That is such amazing news! 
I would have been biting my nails the whole time they were together, just in case something were to happen. But I'm thrilled it went so well! :bunny18

To be honest, I was beginning to worry about you a little. lol 
I hope you had a wonderful Christmas! And I hope you have a great New Year. Are you and the boyfriend going out on New Year's Eve? I hope if you do, you have the best time! Have a drink for me, my husband and I won't be going anywhere this year! haha.


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## holtzchick

whitelop said:


> I am so glad that their first interaction went so well! That is such amazing news!
> I would have been biting my nails the whole time they were together, just in case something were to happen. But I'm thrilled it went so well! :bunny18
> 
> To be honest, I was beginning to worry about you a little. lol
> I hope you had a wonderful Christmas! And I hope you have a great New Year. Are you and the boyfriend going out on New Year's Eve? I hope if you do, you have the best time! Have a drink for me, my husband and I won't be going anywhere this year! haha.


 Awh thanks  actually we are not going out because i enjoy staying in but I will have a drink for you


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Yay, I'm glad the bonding went well ! great news!

Hope you had a fantastic x-mas full of lots of joy.


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## Chrisdoc

Hope it all goes well. I think mine are playing up cos their routine is a bit haywire these days with me between two house. Just caught Snowy and Houdini tagging each other, it´s very loud and noticeable. Have just brought Snowy onto the sofa to cool off. It´s a bit stressful all this hassle cos I´m not spending as much time as I normally do with them. I do hope it does´t upset their bond but am a bit worried now. 

But look like Phoenix and Hippogryff will be fine....I´m so glad :kiss1:


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## holtzchick

Thank you to the both of you! Sorry my posting has been so sporadic on here! It's the result of too much in my day coupled with two crazy buns, coupled with one boyfriend (I think he's more work than the bunnies ) 

Chris, as for not spending too much time with them, that could be why they're acting out, they've got that extra energy, I think it should settle down once things get back to normal. Hopefully it will work out until then. 

I had a LONG bunny date today, about 45 minutes, I didn't mean for it to be that long but I just found they got along very well and I wasn't keeping track of time. I stressed them for about 15 minutes and then let them into the bathtub. All was good except Phoenix pulled out some of his fur on his bum because he wouldn't groom her back... he demands to be groomed and all is fine when that happens but she gets mad when he doesn't groom back. As long as I'm there to groom her, she won't nip him, she's actually quite content and they will lay side by side. I rubbed banana on her forhead to entice him, but it didn't work, he seems to get stressed too easily and when he does, he won't accept any treats/food. I'm just too afraid that I will step backwards if I don't stress them first before having them together. Oh bunnies. :bunny24


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## whitelop

He's trying to be the dominate one! My heart just melted when I read they're getting on so well! Aww I'm so happy. 
Hippogryff must be a high strung bunny and thats why he gets stressed so easily. Hmmm..I'm not sure how to help him. I don't know much about bonding, but I think that its going well. I would read Lisa's blog again, maybe that will help you. She was so insightful on bonding! 

My husband is more work than my child and any of my animals put together. Today, he was eating ham and he didn't want the TINY bit of fat on the ham, so I asked him(in a totally sarcastic way) if he wanted me to cut the fat off. He gave me this sad look and said yes. So I did it. lol I can't believe I cut the fat off the ham. What a big baby, he can't even eat around it. lmao. Men are nuts! I swear, I don't know what I'll do with him AND my son. Ughhh. And he wonders why I'm so tired all the time.


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## Chrisdoc

Michelle so good to see your bonding is going well and they seem to be settling into each other now. Hadn't thought about rubbing banana on mine as they love it, I did give them some when they were together yesterday...good idea that. :bunnyheart Difficult thing about bonding is the patience it takes and the frustration sometimes of them not doing what you want them to do. I did notice the last time I had to bond them again is that they don't seem to be getting that far and suddenly, they'll get over it and just sit together as though they've been like that all the time. Don't know if that's the case with other buns. 

Morgan, did I laugh at your husband. Can't believe you asked him, can't believe he said yes and laughed out loud when you actually did it for him. :roflmao:


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## holtzchick

whitelop said:


> He's trying to be the dominate one! My heart just melted when I read they're getting on so well! Aww I'm so happy.
> Hippogryff must be a high strung bunny and thats why he gets stressed so easily. Hmmm..I'm not sure how to help him. I don't know much about bonding, but I think that its going well. I would read Lisa's blog again, maybe that will help you. She was so insightful on bonding!
> 
> My husband is more work than my child and any of my animals put together. Today, he was eating ham and he didn't want the TINY bit of fat on the ham, so I asked him(in a totally sarcastic way) if he wanted me to cut the fat off. He gave me this sad look and said yes. So I did it. lol I can't believe I cut the fat off the ham. What a big baby, he can't even eat around it. lmao. Men are nuts! I swear, I don't know what I'll do with him AND my son. Ughhh. And he wonders why I'm so tired all the time.



He is quite high strung! It kind of annoys me :/ As for Lisa's bonding experience, she didn't seem to have any grooming hurdles, but maybe with time this will change. 

It's not that the boyfriend will make me do small things like that, but if that were me, I would hear about that piece of fat for the next 5 minutes about how it's unacceptable because he's on a low fat high calorie diet blah blah blah. Sometimes the biggest of men can be the biggest babies!! :bunnysuit:


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## holtzchick

Chrisdoc said:


> Michelle so good to see your bonding is going well and they seem to be settling into each other now. Hadn't thought about rubbing banana on mine as they love it, I did give them some when they were together yesterday...good idea that. :bunnyheart Difficult thing about bonding is the patience it takes and the frustration sometimes of them not doing what you want them to do. I did notice the last time I had to bond them again is that they don't seem to be getting that far and suddenly, they'll get over it and just sit together as though they've been like that all the time. Don't know if that's the case with other buns.
> 
> Morgan, did I laugh at your husband. Can't believe you asked him, can't believe he said yes and laughed out loud when you actually did it for him. :roflmao:



There are definitely multiple things that you can do. 

I found a really good site that helped me out alot. 
here is the link:

http://www.examiner.com/article/bunny-bonding-part-iii-bonding-challenges


Best of luck I hope your two can keep their bond intact.


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## whitelop

holtzchick said:


> He is quite high strung! It kind of annoys me :/ As for Lisa's bonding experience, she didn't seem to have any grooming hurdles, but maybe with time this will change.
> 
> It's not that the boyfriend will make me do small things like that, but if that were me, I would hear about that piece of fat for the next 5 minutes about how it's unacceptable because he's on a low fat high calorie diet blah blah blah. Sometimes the biggest of men can be the biggest babies!! :bunnysuit:


Oh I totally agree. Sometimes I just look at my husband and I'm like 'jeez, do you hear yourself?' I mean, he's 6' 3 and he chops wood on a daily basis and he's complaining about a tiny bit of fat on some ham. I mean, it was like half an inch of fat. He's pretty silly. 

And no, Lisa didn't have any grooming issues or anything. She didn't have any issues with Agnes and Archie. 
Hmmm...I agree with what Jenny put on your bonding thread, maybe don't stress HIM out and only her. If you have to that is. Because maybe he just really needs to be comforted because he's freaked out and scared. Does he go to you for comfort or only to her?


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## holtzchick

Uhm both. I don't think he cares if he is being comforted, only groomed. LOL. 
Phoenix will groom him and then put her head down for him to reciprocate but he puts his head down lower. 
When I groom her at that point she is happy. I will try not stressing him for today and see how that goes.


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## whitelop

hahaha. I just laughed because I can see him lowering his head lower than hers and being like "groom me woman!" lol, thats funny. He's just trying to state his dominance over her. 
Let us know how it works today!


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## holtzchick

Actually I just finished the bonding session, it was relatively short only 15min since it didn't go very well. I tried the whole stressing her out only thing, he STILL would not accept the banana from me or on her head and then he wouldn't groom her. After a while she wouldn't groom him either because she was mad so he nipped her and she nipped him back and a lot of fur pulling went on so I just stopped it. Allowed her to groom him for a moment, pet them both and then put them back and gave them their salads. 

All is well except he will not groom her, other than that, they are indifferent to eachother, she does not mind grooming as long as she gets it back. :/ I don't know how he will adjust but he is like that with myself as well. I wonder if he will change or if perhaps he is just too headstrong for her??


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## Chrisdoc

Actually, that is quite funny because Bandy is always lowering his head and sticking it under the front ot them for Houdini and Snowy to groom him but he never grooms either of them although I´ve see Houdini lower head under Bandy but he never takes the hint. Weird, he loves being groomed but refuses to groom either of them and they seem happy with this as they groom each other.


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## whitelop

Maybe one day he'll just 'get it', ya know? 
What do you mean he's like that with you? He wants you to do all the petting and he doesn't groom you back? I'm a little confused today, sorry, lol. 
Foo never licked me and when I would put my hand under her head(like another bunny would do to get groomed) she would pick my hand up and put her head under it. lol She was the dominate bunny in our relationship. haha. 
But Ellie, she licks me like crazy. I don't know if its the baby part of her, but she licks my pants and slippers and hands. When I put my hand under her head, she'll lick my hand. I'm not sure, all rabbits are different.


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## Chrisdoc

Morgan you´re so right, they are all so different. Snowy is a licker, face especially my nose, hands, clothes. Houdini likes to lick my hands and clothes and Bandy never licks me at all, I think he´s actually a bit non rabbit but he´s still only young.


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## holtzchick

He won't ever lick me and especially not her. I can pet him for over half an hour without having him budge lol


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## Ilovemyrabbit

I just read through the new posts. And I wonder why Hippogryph won't groom her.

I hope all goes well. And I'll help you research this.

Best of luck!


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## whitelop

Hmmm...maybe he isn't a licker. Not all of them are, I take is Phoenix is? I guess it would be weird to have one lick and one not, lol. I feel weird when Ellie licks me, because I had NEVER been licked by a rabbit! hahah. Even when Foo was a baby, she never licked me. 

I really hope he comes around and grooms her! MEN, sometimes they're just so difficult!


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## Chrisdoc

Maybe some rabbits aren´t groomers and are above those things, they prefer to be takers rather than givers. Who knows, Bandy has never licked me and won´t groom however much they put their heads under his...maybe Hippogryph is like him. Only difference is the other two don´t mind (they´re men mind you) and your lady is having none of it lol.


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## holtzchick

Phoenix is DEFINITELY a licker, she licks me all the time for no reason... her tongue reminds me of a kidney bean LOL... she will also lick the floor for no reason, toys (as opposed to chewing them) She just loves to lick things. 

All went well tonight but Phoenix is holding a grudge. She is mad that he wont groom her, she groomed me and I pet her and she groomed him once to see if he would groom back, well he didn't she tried to nip him, he tried to nip her back, I stopped it. Then he actually demanded grooming many times, when she didn't groom him (because she is mad!) he actually went around and nipped her on the behind to which she nipped him back, I separated it, but I really really don't know how this is going to go :/ 

I just emailed his foster mom whether or not she can give me more info on his past bond or if he was ever affectionate towards her. Really nothing else is causing issues except this grooming. I have tried treats, it doesn't work :/ it's the weirdest thing EVER.... I posted a question regarding this on another bunny forum and I'll see but I'm honestly just thinking perhaps they're not a good match. It's really early to say, and maybe just maybe this will change but Phoenix is just a very affectionate bun that wants the affection returned. She is okay to compromise but when she doesn't get groomed, she just gets mad, I'm worried this will cause problems. I'm ending each session on a positive note though. Bllaaah bonding :/ Sorry for the rant!


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## Imbrium

sorry you're having so much trouble with the bonding... wish I knew of something that would help . Gaz grooms Nala regularly while Nala **** near never reciprocates... I often see Gaz lowering her head in front of Nala asking for grooming and I feel really bad for her because she always gets ignored. she doesn't get upset about it, though.


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## Chrisdoc

It´s difficult to know, some bunnies are just happy grooming and some want the favour returned. Mine have never got annoyed when they haven´t been groomed back but I suppose each have their character. Maybe she will learn to accept it, hopefully. Having buns that don´t get on is just such hard work but I won´t give up on them so keep positive and perservere.


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## holtzchick

Awh, it's okay guys. It really means more to me that you're still reading this blog! I feel bad because I've been neglecting reading/posting on any of your blogs!  
I've been working crazy hours lately and when I'm at home, 100% devoted to the bunnies. 

Tonight was a little weird. I decided to go back to the beginning and just stress them in one crate. It went well, she tried to nip him but this time, I had a spray bottle handy and that was the end of that. She even groomed him longer. Then I let them about the tub, he actually had the nerve to nip her hard, I figured I'd see where it takes them, but it got aggressive and even though I sprayed at them, I had to pull them apart and calm them down. I think I may just stick with using the crate for now since you can tell they are both VERY comfortable with each other, they groom themselves in each others presence but they will not for the life of me stop nipping... After I broke them up and calmed them down, they got into an almost chinning war with putting one head lower than the others' and were nose to nose as if to say "GROOM ME" ""NO YOU GROOM ME FIRST!!"" lol.... Time will tell... They enjoy the company of another rabbit you can tell, I just don't think they enjoy each other :/


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## Chrisdoc

Michelle, that sounds just like mine at the moment. I put them together, they circle and stand nose to nose and then they'll have a nip at each other and a jump. They then retire to opposite ends of the bath and start to groom themselves or just sit there really quiet. I really thought they sorted themselves yesterday as Houdini groomed Snowy but 10 minutes later they were nippy again. Heck, I just want mine back to normal. 

Yours sound as though they're getting there, maybe they'll just grow into each other.


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## holtzchick

Awh Chris, that does sound a lot like yours at the moment! I don't think mine are getting "there" at all, if anything, it seems like they are more aggressive with each other than when I first introduced them. I'm being very negative about this at the moment and I think it's just stressing me out that the adoptions co-ordinator will not write me back regarding advice or more information. I realize they're busy, but it's not very difficult to answer an email.


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## Chrisdoc

Michelle, I think we are both going through similar experiences and just sometimes, you feel as though you can´t do it anymore but I know they can get on and they will again but I´m just not sure right now how to get to that point. I´d asked on my blog if it might be a good idea to take them with me this afternoon as i´m going up to my friend´s house for a couple of hours and then coming back down. Thought, maybe the ride there and back and a couple of hours in a strange environment with a dog may get things sorted but not I´m sure about it....the joys of owning these wonderful little creatures. :nod


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## whitelop

What are Phoenix and Hippogryff acting like when you put them back into their enclosures? Are they laying next to each other on their own sides? 
Could you separate them completely, like into different rooms for a while. So they wont hold resentment towards each other. Is it to that point yet? I know bonding can be so difficult but as I've read, its totally worth the time and patience it takes.


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## Imbrium

since they've been fighting, it may indeed help to separate them into different rooms for 2-3 weeks to "reset" things. it's a long time to not be able to work with them, but if you're frustrated and feel like you're not making ANY progress, resetting them back to the beginning might be worth a try.


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## Chrisdoc

I agree, sometimes if you've lost the will to sort things out, take a break and then start again after a short while. Thinks that what I'm gonna do as I don't have the time to dedicate properly to this right now and it's frustrating me and probably upsetting them so I'll wait until I'm back home full time and start again. Worth thinking about.


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## holtzchick

I would first of like to say, Happy New Year to all on this forum! 

I do have some bad news. This mornings session took a turn for the worst. I tried stress bonding them, and within the first minute, the were in a nipping war and already starting a fight. It is not an option for me to house them in different rooms since I live in a one bedroom but they actually are fine in their own cages side by side. They lay in proximity of each other and are comfortable with each other and grooming themselves in each others presence but I don't think these two are a good match for each other. They are both too dominant. 

As said, I have wrote an email to the rescue asking them to take Hippogryff back since I am not hopeful for them at all. I am really sad to say that in the new year but at the same time, I cannot force anything and frankly I'm not experience enough with the distaste these two have for each other. I would like to try again with a new bun and possibly try again to persuade the foster home to allow me to introduce my girl to the new bunny first without making a commitment and I'm hoping I can find a submissive friendlier bun for Phoenix. 

Ah, I feel upset at how things took a turn. It's funny because both bunnies want to bond, I can see that in their behaviors, they just aren't getting along with each other and can't establish top bun without getting into a full on fight. :/


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## Chrisdoc

Michelle, how sorry I am to hear that. You don't think there's any chance things might change ? I do know how you feel and it's really difficult when things aren't going as you want them to. However, if you feel in your heart that things aren't going to work out then you have to do what's best for both and particularly for Phoenix so hope everything works out and you can find your perfect partner for your little heart bun.


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## holtzchick

Honestly, if it was bad I wouldn't mind. 
The thing that gives me doubt that it will work out is that they keep attacking each other when presenting for grooming, no other time. 
On more than one website it says that if that is the case, it's better to keep looking for a different match as opposed to going through the stress to bond buns like that. 
If they were aggressive through the bars or something I would understand, but it's weird. I just have a bad feeling about it and I'd feel really bad to have Hippo adjust to this home if it weren't to work out. 

We're both going to miss him actually, I feel bad and I hope he will find his bondmate. He is sweet in his own way.


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## whitelop

I talked to Lisa and she said to let them sort it out on their own. She said that when you intervene with them and you're the one grooming Phoenix, it messes with things. So maybe let them go at it for a minute to see if they can sort it out on their own. 
That being said, if you feel uncomfortable with them being together, and you feel like you have to swap him; that's totally up to you. 
Good luck with all of it! And im sorry it isn't working out like planned!


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## Ilovemyrabbit

I'm sorry to have read this. If you do decide to get a new bunny than I agree it would be best to get the shelter to let Phoenix bunny date. And maybe Hippogrypph does still have a chance. Are you going to put them together for one more bunny session?

Good luck!


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## holtzchick

Awh, thanks for asking Lisa for me. I have allowed them a minute to sort it out and it almost turned into a full fledged fight. I had trouble pulling one off the other. 
I also had a lady call me that raises angora's in the area. After I told her what I'd been doing and what had been happening, she told me to switch him out as well and actually said to consider maybe getting a female since they're more likely to groom, unless I get a male with a very very laid back personality like what Phoenix has. 

I don't know, I feel like this came at me way too quickly. I'd read about it, but it was so different when it was right in front of me!


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## holtzchick

Ilovemyrabbit said:


> I'm sorry to have read this. If you do decide to get a new bunny than I agree it would be best to get the shelter to let Phoenix bunny date. And maybe Hippogrypph does still have a chance. Are you going to put them together for one more bunny session?
> 
> Good luck!



I will try tomorrow but today they barely lasted two minutes with the water spraying and the crate shaking and the vaccuum on. :/ 

My boyfriend is confused because they're laying near each other in their pen's all flopped out. I think their personalities are very different.


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## Imbrium

you've been trying really hard to make things work - you've certainly given it your best shot. sometimes it's just not meant to be, though. since you can't separate them fully for a few weeks to reset things and you feel rather hopeless about overcoming the grooming issues, trying a different bunny may very well be the best thing for all three of you.

contrary to what the breeder said, though, I'd recommend against another female - F/F bonds are just so tricky sometimes.


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## whitelop

Awww. I knew they were getting into scuffles, but maybe I didn't understand it was getting into a full fight. How sad!  

I guess they just don't get along. But its confusing to me too that they would lay next to each other in their cages and then they fight when they're together. Its a little baffling. 
Remember with female/female bonds, those are REALLY hard to create. I agree that you'll have to find a VERY laid back bun to pair with her. I hope it all works out. What I really want is for you to put them together tomorrow and they just get along! That would be like magic and it would be amazing. I know you're probably sad and upset, but its okay.  We're all here for you! :hearts

Didn't something bad happen to Hippogryff's bond-mate? Maybe thats what it is, maybe he just doesn't want to be bonded because he remembers what happened or something.


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## holtzchick

Okay, you know, I spoke to the rabbit rescue director last night and she really urged me to try again. She said housing them next to each other is fine but just not to do other sessions this week. In my opinion their bonding outlooks are VERY prolonged but they have had success with a lot of bunnies. I think I will simply revamp their cages since I hate the cardboard, time to bring out the NIC cubes. I swear if I ever get these two bonded, I will always adopt pairs from here on out! 

Yes Hippos bond mate had passed so maybe he is just grumpy oh and the woman advised me to not let any nipping start which is why they didn't tolerate each other.... Apparently when I first introduce them the sessions are only supposed to last a minute maximum.... At this point Im thinking wtf that's so short but im willing to give it my best shot for the sake of these two!!! 

Thanks so much for the support everyone! I have my good days and my bad and you've certainly seen a lot of the latter lately!


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## Chrisdoc

Oh Michelle, I know just how you´re feeling and it is so hard and you do really want them to hit it off but NOW and it doesn´t move quick enough. I´m just watching Houdini who I´ve let out on his own for a while and he´s been stuck next to the enclosure where Snowy is sniffing him through it. That´s the closest they´re gonna get today after the nose bite yesterday but I still am convinced they will re-bond when I have the time to spend with them. Once of the biggest problems while I´ve been between houses is that they´re most active at night and they have been accumstomed to being out until late at night and they´re closed in now and that excess energy could be what has broken their bond. 

I really wish I could give you a miracle solution to sort it all out but there just isn´t one and if you feel, deep down, that it isn´t gonna work then maybe it is time to look at the best for all of you. I am absolutely praying for a miracle for you and nothing would make me happier that you telling us that they´re together and OK.

I just adore all these little bunnies but sometímes they are such complicated little buggers.


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## Ilovemyrabbit

:yeahthat:

It can get really annnoying with bonding sometimes. And I agree with Imbrium girl+girl bonds are harder than boy+girl bonds. I wonder if you will have to return Hippogrypph and get a new bunny. Do you have any breeds in mind?

My fingers are crossed for a sucessful session with Hippogrypph and Phoneix.


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## holtzchick

Yeah, well, I'm going to give it at least a few weeks before I try a single session again. They just need time. 

In the mean time, I am revamping their enclosures a little with NIC cubes all along the perimeter to make it easier that I don't have to watch them like a hawk when they're out. I always watch them, but it does get tiring after a long day at work. I'm hoping if I make it a more permanent solution (as opposed to cardboard) it will be less stressful for me. I feel so horrible for these two that they don't get enough out time. I feel like a bad bunny mom and it's so not fair to them!


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Yeah, I think you should give it some time before you do another session.

And I know how you feel about the whole watching them when the are out thing. I have to watch Ash when he is out too. And it gets tiring.

And please don't blame yourself. Its not your fault that things aren't working out.


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## whitelop

Don't beat yourself up about them not getting enough out time. When I had my son, Foo stayed in her cage for a solid like 4 months. She got out like one time a week. It was really sad and horrible for me to do that to her. I used to sit with her in the floor and cry over her because I didn't let her out enough. I was just so tired from having a newborn and a husband who did nothing. Its exhausting taking care of a house and a child, on top of all kinds of animals. Wow, sorry for the rant/over share. I think I just had some sort of mental break down. lol 

I think you're right, maybe taking the cardboard down will make you feel better. I understand how your feeling, like a little overwhelmed looking at the cardboard? I know you're pretty clean, with the clean modern lines and stuff. And cardboard does not look clean! I really hate cardboard. Yuck. 

You know more about bonding than I do, of course. I just really hope they sort it out and wind up liking each other. I'm sending you good thoughts and Ellie is sending Hippogryff and Phoenix good thoughts! We all want to see them bond, probably none of us want it as much as you. But we're all here for you. We've got your back! 
:muscleman:


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## Chrisdoc

Michelle glad to hear you are going to give it another try. I also have to watch over mine when they're out as sometimes they're just so naughty. The good news is that I had them all out today although Snowy was on the sofa with me but Houdini did jump on the other sofa and jumped across and there was no kissing with teeth today just sniffing and a quick push from Snowy telling Houdini to clear off so I feel a bit more positive. 

Cardboard is a nightmare. I have a piece across one of the sides of the enclosure as Bandy and Snowy jumped over it and I haven't had time to make any adjustments so have large piece of thick white cardboard at that side to stop them doing it again. If they'd have had my three in "The Great Escape" it would all have been over in 10 minutes. 

You're a great bunny mum and don't ever doubt that, I'm sure you'll find your way with these two, I'm certainly rooting for you all.


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## whitelop

Hey Michelle! Where are you?! lol, jk. 
I hope everything is going well with the buns, I was thinking about you guys today. 
I hope they're getting along better!


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## holtzchick

HEY! wow. you read my mind! I was just about to post! Thank you guys SOOOOO much for making me feel better about the way I've been with them lately!! 

NEW YEAR = NEW START. 

I spent the last week revamping their cages and have a finished product. I also got them some "cat tents" at the dollar store instead of a hidey hole box since they were taking up too much space in the cages. I got all of my NIC cubes that I once used for Peter's cage and made a 3 inch perimeter barrier between both cages surrounding both sides so when they are out I don't have to watch and see if they are biting one another in the cage. 

ALSO, I went to Canadian Tire and *finally* found wood stove pellets and it turns out it is an item that htey stock regularly!!! It smells fantastic! It controls odor SOO well... 

Here are some pictures of the cages

















My boyfriend was laughing since he said it looks complicated as if I were building a space ship LOL... took me a lot of modifications but I am so happy with it as of right now! 

I'm sorry if all the caps are making me sound obnoxious I am just really positive about this whole thing right now and excited, so I thought they would help emphasize. 

I would also like to take a moment to send my congratulations to Audrinasmommy and baby Liam as I just read the news of his birth  

I wish everyone the best in this new year and I think it will be a great one. Thank you for stopping by to read this blog, you all mean so much to us


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## whitelop

It kind of does look like a space ship! hahaha. I'm so happy that you're giving this another go. I really hope they get on with each other this time! 

I bet you can't wait to have them bonded, to get them down to one cage and have your living room back! haha. I so hope it goes well, they're such special bunnies and they really deserve each other! 
I also so glad you're feeling so much more positive about this. 
Ellie and I are sending good wishes to the buns to help them bond with each other. :dutch :hearts


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## Imbrium

nice design - their area looks great now! very safe and more aesthetically pleasing than the cardboard barriers


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## holtzchick

Thanks  took me a while to figure out how to make the doors since they're so stiff.

Oh by the way Morgan,I forgot to mention, my boyfriend has had a fascination with bunny foo foo lately. He was walking around the house and I heard him say her name I was just like ugh what did you say?! Apparently he remembers when I told him all the stories of her and he even googled her. He's really weird but he means well. Just thought itd be cute to share


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## whitelop

That is sweet! That just brought some tears to my eyes but it made me smile too.


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## Imbrium

he GOOGLED Foo? that's new levels of weird, lol


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## whitelop

She probably meant the nursery rhyme of Little Bunny Foo Foo, probably not MY Foo. lol, unless he really did google MY Foo, then that would be a little odd. I'm going to google her and see what comes up! hahaha. I still sing the nursery rhyme to myself.

I just googled her and you have to type in Bunny Foo Foo rabbits online for MY bun to come up. If you just type in Bunny Foo Foo, its the nursery rhyme and a south park episode, lol.


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## Chrisdoc

Michelle, I´m so glad you´re giving it another try, I´m sure that in the end things will work out for them but it is such a long process and takes lots of patience which sometimes is hard to find. I´ve still got two grumpy boys and am in the process also of getting them together again but it´s taking time. I´m sure it will happen but it just seems a long way to that stage and sometimes I don´t know if I can keep going but I have to for them as they deserve it. Love the cages now, yes you do have patience to do all that for them but when it´s down to one, you´ll look back and laugh at it all.


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## holtzchick

whitelop said:


> She probably meant the nursery rhyme of Little Bunny Foo Foo, probably not MY Foo. lol, unless he really did google MY Foo, then that would be a little odd. I'm going to google her and see what comes up! hahaha. I still sing the nursery rhyme to myself.
> 
> I just googled her and you have to type in Bunny Foo Foo rabbits online for MY bun to come up. If you just type in Bunny Foo Foo, its the nursery rhyme and a south park episode, lol.




No... you're both right, he's just really wierd. He googled your Bunny Foo Foo since he has no clue about the nursery rhyme. I don't know why he would do that, but he has had a fascination with her since I showed him pictures... 

My boyfriend is uh.... special... :hbunnysmell:

AWHH... I just googled Bunny Foo Foo and the nursery rhyme is so cute!!! It's adorable! I miss Foo so much!


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## holtzchick

Chrisdoc said:


> Michelle, I´m so glad you´re giving it another try, I´m sure that in the end things will work out for them but it is such a long process and takes lots of patience which sometimes is hard to find. I´ve still got two grumpy boys and am in the process also of getting them together again but it´s taking time. I´m sure it will happen but it just seems a long way to that stage and sometimes I don´t know if I can keep going but I have to for them as they deserve it. Love the cages now, yes you do have patience to do all that for them but when it´s down to one, you´ll look back and laugh at it all.




Haha yeah, I will be happy and my boyfriend will be ecstatic that there will be no more cages  They will both be free range.


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## whitelop

I'm not sure what to say! lol. Thats a little weird of him! hahah. What happened when he googled her, did he find my blog? I'm actually really glad that everyone loved Foo too, and that her life had a little meaning to someone other than me.


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## Chrisdoc

Now you´ve got me at it, I must google Bunny Foo Foo as never heard of the nursery rhyme and now I´m just curious to see what comes up as well. 

Michelle crossing my fingers, toes and anything else they hit it off and settle down. Mine are still not back to normal but this is going to work, I guarantee, they will get bored before I do and we will get back to normal :yes:


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## Ilovemyrabbit

:yeahthat:

I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope that your two will work it out. Keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for a happy ending with the next bonding session.


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## Chrisdoc

I am so positive this is going to happen that it **** well will lol....they are not fighting through the bars and seem Ok when apart so I´ll gradually re-introduce them in a couple of days, think they need a little while to miss each other. As the enclosure has enough space for then to jump and move quite a bit, I´m not worried about them being in there for a little while each day while the other is out. Snowy´s in there now with Houdini out and Snowy was out this afternoon until around 8 so all is well. I will keep you posted


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## agnesthelion

Michelle I've got so much to catch up on! I'm still rooting for Phoenix and Hippogryf! I agree with Chris,,,,,this WILL happen 
I've got alot of reading to do but wanted to stop in and say hi and I'll catch up soon! I've missed you!


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## whitelop

Michelle, have you put them back together for another bonding session? If you did, how did it go? 
I think about them a lot. I don't know why, just the thoughts of them pass through my mind.


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## Chrisdoc

Me too, if this works on positive thinking or vibes, they will definitely get through this as we´re all rooting for them and thinking about them.


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## agnesthelion

Okay so I read the whole blog from where I left....

Oh gosh Michelle....what a roller coaster for you....

I'm uber curious where you are currently with them. I just love their personalities. Truly. You have to at least appreciate their tenacity. I can't help myself from chuckling at Phoenix's demand to be treated like a lady 

And then Hippo. I had forgotten he had a mate before. This is just my own theory but given how closely buns bond, I've wondered if a rabbit who has lost a mate *might* be a bit more of a challenge to bond? And I say that not to be pessimistic! But only to give insight to Hippos mind.......

But even though I didn't have many bonding challenges, I SO understand how stressful it is  you just want them to get along!!!

I just have a couple thoughts (only to try and help) but I've never been a fan of stressing before bonding. I see that as a last resort and useful only when two buns are fighting right off.

Also, changing of scenery can be beneficial too. Not drastic, but move from the bathroom to kitchen, bedroom, closet, etc. Rabbits are awfully "weird" when it comes to location.

And as far ad the rescue telling you to keep initial bonding sessions to like a minute....I was VERY slow at the beginning too. I bet my first session was 5 mi urea maybe? It's hard to remember but I literally was so intent on them ONLY parting on a positive note. 

Lastly, the laying down when they are in their cages......of course sometimes this is a sign that they are comfortable with each other.....BUT sometimes it is a sign of a dominance war. Each bun will lay down almost as an insult to the other bun. As if to say "ha, I'm more comfortable than you and will NOT bow down". Crazy bunny lingo, huh? But again, I don't see this as a negative. I think it just shows there is a grooming hierarchy they need to work out. Now granted it's easier said than done because I'm not there, but do you it's something they need to eventually work out? I can't invasion their fights. Obviously the fights where they are on their hind legs and boxing and going at it needs to be stopped. But a nipping/grooming war could be worked out.

Oh Michelle, I'm just blabbing and thinking out loud i guess. I'm repeating myself but I just really want this tomwork for you because I know how much it means to you and how much work you've put into them. So I may be talking nonsense, lol, just trying to wrack my brain for ANYthing I can think of that may spark something to help you.......

Okay, done rambling. I'll be watching for an update. My fingers are crossed for some good news......


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## agnesthelion

Sorry for the typos. I'm on my iPad and typing is hard and then I can't go back and edit


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## holtzchick

Im so so sorry everyone to keep you all on your toes! I have not had the motivation lately to post since really, I have nothing to post about lol. As advised by many, I am actually not doing bonding sessions, I halted those on the first of the new year and I am not going to re-start bonding until the 1st of February if that. I am so so lucky to have great people to come to for advice that care about my two buns, nothing makes me happier.  

Lisa, I love the link you had sent me and I love the little paragraph on tiring them out basically both in a play pen all day and something has to be worked out (of course not until later on!) 

They were not I guess full out fighting with kicking involved, but they definitely held a grip on each other to the point where I had to pull them apart and it would have developed into a huge huge fight. Now with all the cardboard around the cages gone, I definitely have the patience to wait since I'm not itching to take the cardboard off. I think it could be stressing them that made it harder. I had read so many times that it's great to do blah blah blah but perhaps it was keeping Hippogryff in his shell, since he is very particular about the way that he wants things. 

This time, I am really focusing my attention on him and getting to know him as closely as possible before I start the bonding sessions. It dawned on me though, I *really* want the bond to work eventually since I've gotten so attached to him. I love him so much, he's adorable! He plays for 5 minutes, gets all tuckered out and then flops anywhere that has the space to take him. Poor little guy looks like an evil koala bear and he's so cute! They are both sweethearts. 

I don't have anywhere else I could bond them, since Phoenix has already been everywhere in my apartment (yes, including my walk in closet :/)... Since I had acquired Hippo though, I had been keeping her separate from the upstairs in hopes that that could someday become semi-neutral territory? Either that or I was thinking I could take them into my sister's apartment who will be moving in downstairs from me? 

Hippogryff (whom I have dubbed Hipster Dipster, a play on Humpty Dumpty) is having his first vet visit today! I was supposed to take him a while back but I really procrastinated. 

Chris, I looked at your blog and saw the lovely pictures of the festival. I will read up on the details  My boyfriend saw the pictures and he was like wow yes she lives in a nice place (it's not easy for him to say that, he's been all over Europe since he was 10.... wish that were me!) . 

Morgan, thank you so much for your concern  it's sweet that you would come to check up on me! I'm so grateful to have you on here! I'm going onto your blog any moment  

Lisa, thank you for the link! It was so helpful and you are such a great help! It's fantastic to have you back here and I'm sure everyone was hoping to find you back here!  Looking forward to seeing more pics of Archie and Agnes in the future!! 

Ilovemyrabbit, Thank you for the wishes! Any Ash updates? I guess I will find out! 

OH, and I think if I ever run into grooming war issues again, I will see if anyone on the rescue group forum is free to come view a bonding session to give me exact advice! I feel like such a N00b! :spintongue


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## whitelop

I really hope that the bonding works out. I don't have much to offer, other than well wishes! I think its really sweet though that you're so close with Hippogryff now and that you care about him so much. hahahaha An evil koala bear! I laughed pretty hard. 

Let us know how the vet goes! I'm always curious about weights, I don't know why. I just like to know how much animals weigh. haha. Its strange. 

If you could try to bond them in your sisters new apartment, that would probably be awesome! 

I'm going to leave your blog now, I'm in a total rambling state of mind. Like everyday


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## holtzchick

Thank you Morgan 

I will totally show you what I mean before I log off!! 

Hipster







Evil Koala Picture






All you'd have to do is invert his colors but he's got the dark nose and red eyes! 

My sister also thinks he is cute but in a creepy way (it's not fair, only because of the red eyes, I think they're adorable!! )


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## whitelop

:roflmao:
I laughed so hard at that! hahaha. Thanks Michelle, you just made my morning 100% better!


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## holtzchick

LOL yeah, I thought so. 

Hippogryff just got back from the vet, he weighs 6lbs exactly. He allowed the vet to check over his eyes, ears and even look in his mouth without grunting or biting I was so happy. Poor little guy gets *SO* stressed out easily! The vet was shocked at how rapid his breathing was because he was so scared, and then when he heard a dog bark in the back he got even more afraid and started breathing faster! That dog at his old home must have really scared him to death and I guess now I understand how hard it must have been for him to lose his mate who protected him from the big scary dog. (Kind of like Phoenix will! She is quite fearless!) He is back in his cage hiding in his tent and both buns are chomping on their salads


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## whitelop

Awww poor boy! It sounds like he does need Fearless Phoenix to protect him from the scary things in the world! 

I'm glad he didn't bite anyone!


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## Chrisdoc

Michelle, how good that the vet visit went well. OMG that´s a big bun compared to mine, he´s nearly twice the weight of Bandy, I forget that all three of mine are quite small. He is just gorgeous and I have a weakness for red eyes, I absolutely love my little Snowy. Poor things, he must be terrified when he even hears a dog after what he went through, glad that Phoenix is watching his back. 

I think you´re doing the right thing taking a break. I am also doing that with mine. Granted, it´s harder as I have to let them out separately but I´m not in the right frame of mind at the moment and maybe they just need to see each other through the bars but not connect physically so that´s how I´m doing it at the moment. However, I am still convinced that we will get back to our normal routines eventually. The worse thing for them when they are stressed getting together is seeing that we are stressed by what they´re doing so take a break, breathe deeply, positive thoughts and go back to it later. I am sure it will work out in the end but if you can survive the interim, you´ll reap the rewards.


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Well I'm happy that the vet visit went well. And Ash is 9 pounds so he's even bigger than Hippogryph.


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## agnesthelion

Aaaaah, I missed the notifications of postings on here. I swear I still can't figure out the notification stuff........lol...

But anyway, that is so funny about the evil koala! And yup, he does look like one!

Glad the vet visit went well. Poor guy was so scared  I'd be curious what my two weigh as well. Agnes was 3.7 when she got spayed but I know she's gained, ahem, a bit of weight since. She's alot bigger than Archie. I bet he's just at 3 lbs if even. So 6 lbs sounds so big to me! I'm used to the little ones.

I will be watching for when bonding starts again. And you know I'll be rooting you on!!!


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## holtzchick

Wow, yeah, I'd forgotten how big my buns are! Peter was tiny weighing in a 2.5 probably if not less. Now these guys seem small to me AND to top it off I got to see Hippogryff's foster mom's Flemish who was 17 LBS! This thing looked like a beagle it was so big!!! LOL... I wonder if Monty or any of the other Flemmies on here are that big :/

Also, sorry if I'm not posting, but really nothing interesting is happening in this household... All is on standby until next month! Will make periodic *boring* updates though


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## holtzchick

Ilovemyrabbit said:


> Well I'm happy that the vet visit went well. And Ash is 9 pounds so he's even bigger than Hippogryph.



WOW, I thought Ash was about Phoenix's size, pictures really don't do him justice!


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## Chrisdoc

OMG, I can´t imagine rabbits that big, my two smallest are just around a kilo or just over so they´re tiny compared to all of yours. I didn´t realise either that Ash was so big, he looks smaller in the pics. And I think I spend enough on food for my three haha.


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Well maybe I can take a picture of my hand on Ash and post it  than you can see how big he is.


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Any updates?


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## holtzchick

It's soo insanely difficult to update my blog sometimes. I don't know why, I've been silently creeping everyone elses blog so I stay with the times but I've neglected to post on my own blog! 

No major updates here, Phoenix and Hippogryff are still living side by side, I'm not planning on introducing them until atleast the 5th of February. 
On another note, a petshop down the street from me has come to the end of it's lease and so EVERYTHING in the store is on clearance. Since the buns are spoiled, I didn't buy them too many new things but I did happen to get one really cool foraging toy and I definitely recommend this to everyone! 

It's called Teach and Treat by Hagen Living World http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004HYW9B8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Basically, it's got 3 different levels that challenge your rabbits brain and give some mental stimulation. The first level is basically a disc that slides around on the holes and you put a treat into one of the holes, the rabbit has to slide it out of the way to get the treat. The second level is putting little cups over the holes and the rabbit has to lift each cup up to get to the treat and the third level is where the rabbit has to slide the cups around the circuit to find the treat. It's fantastic! 

Phoenix has already mastered level 1 due to her unconditional love of food! LOL. I've tried to get Hippo to use it but I can't figure out what it is that he goes nuts for, I bought him some oxbow hay toys which he likes, but I want to try getting him out of his shell. I leave his cage open for HOURS, he'll come out for a minute or two but then just hops back into his cage and flops over for the rest of the time! He's so cute! 

I'm going to buy the critters some Knee Deep Farms hay which is an Ontario grown hay free of pesticides (obviously) and it's Timothy mixed with Apple Branches  We just got some at work so I'm excited!

My two are molting so bad! I swear Phoenix is so patchy and Hippo has tumbleweeds of hair rolling around his cage all the time even though I'm vacuuming daily! He won't let me brush him. 

I did end up buying them the Oxbow Papaya Enzyme Tablets and Phoenix immediately took some out of my hand, Hippogryff wouldn't touch his. I put one in his bowl everyday and after about a week he started eating them and now he loves the taste and will eat some out of my hand as well! It's such a relief because the way these guys are molting they need the extra supplement! 

BTW, to all those who read this blog, I've loved reading your new posts and have yet to comment, sometimes, I feel like just pushing the like this post button but I feel as if I'm not contributing enough so I'd rather not post anything at all. lol


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## HolyHandGrenade

Thanks for the update! I like hearing about Phoenix and Hippogryff. I don't remember if I've commented before, but I've been reading since the start.


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## Chrisdoc

Hey Michelle, good to hear about Phoenix and Hippogryff again and glad they´re doing well. 

I´ve seen something like that on amazon but didn´t get it, I wished I had. If it´s anything to do with food, Bandy would be up there with Phoenix, it´s his favourite pastime eating both his and anyone elses food he can get hold of lol.

Bandy´s molting like mad and does he lose fur....I´ve nearly got enough now to make a jumper, I brush him for about 15-20 minutes per day and it just falls off, I´m surprised he´s still got any left. 

Will look forward to your updates when you start the bonding...I´m a bit excited actually to see how they go.


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## holtzchick

HolyHandGrenade said:


> Thanks for the update! I like hearing about Phoenix and Hippogryff. I don't remember if I've commented before, but I've been reading since the start.



Thanks! I didn't know you were even reading this blog!


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## holtzchick

Chrisdoc said:


> Hey Michelle, good to hear about Phoenix and Hippogryff again and glad they´re doing well.
> 
> I´ve seen something like that on amazon but didn´t get it, I wished I had. If it´s anything to do with food, Bandy would be up there with Phoenix, it´s his favourite pastime eating both his and anyone elses food he can get hold of lol.
> 
> Bandy´s molting like mad and does he lose fur....I´ve nearly got enough now to make a jumper, I brush him for about 15-20 minutes per day and it just falls off, I´m surprised he´s still got any left.
> 
> Will look forward to your updates when you start the bonding...I´m a bit excited actually to see how they go.



Haha, I know what you mean I completely want to start spinning some of her fur because it's got like a wool like quality to it it's SO soft! 

I want to start bonding as of the 5th of Feb. Not sure if I mentioned in any of my posts.


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## Chrisdoc

Yes, you did say that and it´s coming upon us so can´t wait to see how it goes. I´m an optimist so I´m sure it will go fine and can´t wait to hear news about it and pics as well. 

I love Bandy´s hair but it really does get everywhere, I´m always picking it off clothes, furniture and the floor but I suppose that´s one of the downers of the long haired breed but I´m so glad now he´s got used to me grooming him and stays pretty still for around the 20 minutes it takes me...that is progress.


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## whitelop

I was thinking about you the day you updated your blog, but I didn't get a chance to comment. I hope the bonding attempts go well this time. How do they seem with each other now, still laying next to each other while in their own cages? 
I can't wait to hear about that bonding when it happens. 

I'm glad to see that everything is going well!


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## agnesthelion

You have such self discipline. I remember you wanting to wait til the 5th and that's great you are sticking to your plan. I'm pretty disciplined too but I'm impressed at your patience through this. Kudos!! And I'm really so excited for these two. I can't wait to hear about things and so anxious for you to have them bonded.

Molting. UHg. Tell me about it! I get through Archies molt which was complete torture on my clean freak personality. And then, Agnes starts. Ironically, her molts aren't as bad. Mini Rex fur flies everywhere. Shes almost done though so I'm hoping to enjoy a few weeks molt free until Archie starts again.

I'm so impressed with that toy. I know Archie would love that. He's the brainiac of the two and really likes being stimulated with stuff like that.

Glad to hear things are going good. Is your sis moved in below you yet? Ill continue to watch for updates! Especially bonding updates!


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## whitelop

I forgot about the toy, i want it for Ellie! I bet she would like it a lot. I'm going to make my husband order it!


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## holtzchick

whitelop said:


> I was thinking about you the day you updated your blog, but I didn't get a chance to comment. I hope the bonding attempts go well this time. How do they seem with each other now, still laying next to each other while in their own cages?
> I can't wait to hear about that bonding when it happens.
> 
> I'm glad to see that everything is going well!




Yeah, Uhm, they're not doing too shabby. She lays near him but opposite corner if that makes sense lol. Almost like they're trying to stare each other down! This time I'm going to see if I can have someone from the rescue come and look at introductions because I don't even know what to look for. Man, this bunny stuff is TOUGH lol


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## holtzchick

agnesthelion said:


> You have such self discipline. I remember you wanting to wait til the 5th and that's great you are sticking to your plan. I'm pretty disciplined too but I'm impressed at your patience through this. Kudos!! And I'm really so excited for these two. I can't wait to hear about things and so anxious for you to have them bonded.
> 
> Molting. UHg. Tell me about it! I get through Archies molt which was complete torture on my clean freak personality. And then, Agnes starts. Ironically, her molts aren't as bad. Mini Rex fur flies everywhere. Shes almost done though so I'm hoping to enjoy a few weeks molt free until Archie starts again.
> 
> I'm so impressed with that toy. I know Archie would love that. He's the brainiac of the two and really likes being stimulated with stuff like that.
> 
> Glad to hear things are going good. Is your sis moved in below you yet? Ill continue to watch for updates! Especially bonding updates!




Haha thank you for your kind words  Oh god, they're both constant cactus butts!! It seems like Phoenix just molts year round and Hippogryff won't allow me to brush him. They're two crazy buns! 

Actually my sister is moving in on the 15th and I get to help her (by the way, she's got 3 closets full of clothes :/) and until a few days ago, she was also a hoarder.... We sorted out 11 bags of clothing that is being taken to the amity! 11 BAGS! If I had 11 bags of disposable clothes I would be ripping my hair out lol!


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## Chrisdoc

Michelle, I agree it is so tough...I still haven´t got mine back together. Probably some laziness on my part but the thought of it not working. I will do it probably starting next week so will let you know how it goes.


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## holtzchick

Chrisdoc said:


> Michelle, I agree it is so tough...I still haven´t got mine back together. Probably some laziness on my part but the thought of it not working. I will do it probably starting next week so will let you know how it goes.




How are you dealing with this Chris? I know it's difficult! Have you taken any steps forward to bringing your two back yet? :O


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## Chrisdoc

I haven´t really made the effort, I just wanted to forget about it for a few weeks and I´ve been letting them out separately and it´s worked Ok although they´re not getting as much time out as before...Bandy is the only one who´s out all the time. 

I think I may have a go again next week. They sniff through the cage and are not agressive so I think they´ve probably had enough time apart. So I´ll keep you posted if I have another go.


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## agnesthelion

Okay michelle.....wondering how the 5th went?? That was the big dating day, right?? I'm dying for some updates!!!! Hope things are good!!


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## holtzchick

Thank you so much for checking in on me.... okay.... I chickened out!! 

I can't start bonding again, I'm like tainted from it. I'm hoping someone from the rescue can come by and help me out for the first initial meeting or two. I hope someone replies from there soon. I've got my fingers crossed. I do promise to update though!! Exhausting and long week!


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## Chrisdoc

Hope you get help from them but don´t worry, if you´re not ready for it then it´s not worth trying it. I know that it´s us that have to be in the right frame of mind so that they get positive vibes from us. If you´re not feeling that way, it´s better not to risk it. I hope you hear from the rescue soon. 

Mine are still not sorted but have spent a bit of time together over the past few weeks and it´s gone quite well so I´m taking it really slow and giving them lots of time. They´re both happy though and that´s the most important thing.


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## agnesthelion

Oh Michelle that's too bad BUT I understand. I had watched so many videos of bunny fights online I was freaked out just from that and it wasn't even my two! I almost didn't get another one because I was so worried. Bunny fights are not easy to watch  

I hope you get some help. Just remember rabbits can sense your nervousness so be confident! I know it's not easy but you can do it! You are a great bunny momma and you know aLOT about bonding so you will do fine.

Keep us updated. We are all still hoping for good things!!!


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Aww, I wish things had gone better. Still, I hope you get the help you need. I'll be watching for updates.


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## holtzchick

Alright! It just so happens that someone from the rescue lives close to me and they`re stopping by tomorrow night! Keeping positive for this one! 

Yes Lisa, you`re right they`re terrifying to watch and mine have been close to one before :<


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## Chrisdoc

Michelle, I´m sure that they will give you some great tips and you´ll feel better. As I said, you have to be positive for it to work as I think we transmit our feelings to them. I´ll be watching to see what they say.


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## holtzchick

Okay, of course the night that the lady from the rescue was supposed to come, there was a HUGE snowstorm that prevented that BUT nonetheless, she came the next day and had great advice for me!! I knew that having someone see it first hand would help me a large deal! 

First off, she said their cages were much too large for them to be effective for bonding. I actually followed her advice and cut the cages down to half the size and adding more shared space lengthwise. Then she said that instead of having a space, I could just do 2-3 layers of NIC cubes overlapping by 1.4 inch that way, they can touch whiskers and lay next to each other and not get their teeth through. 

I followed her advice and the first night, Hippogryff lunged at Phoenix because she was biting the bars but the next day, they were laying together  Today they are so close! I love it!! I think I`m going to keep it this way until March before I date but man this is a much better set up, they are already more tolerant of each other. 

Not only is it better for them but it`s also better for me! I have a real living room now, It`s much more clean and they both seem to enjoy this more. The lack of space in the cage is making Hippogryff come out more frequently for playtime so thats great. 

Anyways, here are promised and LONG overdue pictures  






















Oh and I also thought I would mention that I removed the grates from their litter boxes. The lady said that even for the amount of time that they are on the grates, it could still be hurting them and honest to god it`s much easier to clean them out.


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## agnesthelion

Omg I'm so glad you got great advice! And it does seem like a no brainer. Isn't it funny how when you see thing laid out like that its baffling how you never thougbt of it yourself? But anyway, this way it does force them to see each other more often with the increased space lengthwise. They can't really get away as much now.
I have to say that I think the time and effort you are putting into this bond is commendable. Truthfully, I'm a bit ashamed to admit, but I might have given up by now! Haha. I guess I can't say for sure because you get so attached it's hard for me to imagine parting with Archie, but I just wanted to give you a pat on the back. You are truly giving this your all!!!
I just loved seeing the recent pictures of the two. Is it just me or is Phoenix a bit "furrier"?  I just love her coloring still. What a gal.
Anyway you know I'll be following every update. I was glad to see your blog pop up on the side


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## whitelop

They look much more comfortable with each other now! Wow, what a difference it seems to have made. I never would have thought to make their enclosures smaller. I learned something else new today! 

They are so pretty. Is Phoenix molting? Her fur looks a little...cactusy. haha. I learned with Ellie's litter box that she would not use a box with grates on it. I took the grate off and she uses the litter box like a champ now! They are a lot easier to clean with no grates too, just dump or scoop and you're done! LOL. 

So you're putting off their dating until March? You're going to let them get to know each other a bit better with this new cage set up and then introduce them? I'm glad that woman could come and help you out a bit! It sounds like you have a more fresh and positive outlook on this whole thing.


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## holtzchick

agnesthelion said:


> Omg I'm so glad you got great advice! And it does seem like a no brainer. Isn't it funny how when you see thing laid out like that its baffling how you never thougbt of it yourself? But anyway, this way it does force them to see each other more often with the increased space lengthwise. They can't really get away as much now.
> I have to say that I think the time and effort you are putting into this bond is commendable. Truthfully, I'm a bit ashamed to admit, but I might have given up by now! Haha. I guess I can't say for sure because you get so attached it's hard for me to imagine parting with Archie, but I just wanted to give you a pat on the back. You are truly giving this your all!!!
> I just loved seeing the recent pictures of the two. Is it just me or is Phoenix a bit "furrier"?  I just love her coloring still. What a gal.
> Anyway you know I'll be following every update. I was glad to see your blog pop up on the side



LOL, YES, I am baffled as to how something so simple made me SO frustrated!!! And no, you`re not crazy, Phoenix is definitely furrier and she`s been molting for the past month! I pull fur from her every day and still it is nuts, the lady from the rescue says she`s got a lot of lop in her and that lops tend to have bad molts. lucky me! 

Thanks so much for checking in


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## holtzchick

whitelop said:


> They look much more comfortable with each other now! Wow, what a difference it seems to have made. I never would have thought to make their enclosures smaller. I learned something else new today!
> 
> They are so pretty. Is Phoenix molting? Her fur looks a little...cactusy. haha. I learned with Ellie's litter box that she would not use a box with grates on it. I took the grate off and she uses the litter box like a champ now! They are a lot easier to clean with no grates too, just dump or scoop and you're done! LOL.
> 
> So you're putting off their dating until March? You're going to let them get to know each other a bit better with this new cage set up and then introduce them? I'm glad that woman could come and help you out a bit! It sounds like you have a more fresh and positive outlook on this whole thing.



Yeah I completely agree with the litter boxes being easier to clean!!!! It`s nuts, now I just need to make a nice hay rack of some sort that`s not super small though I`m not opposed to just tossing some fresh hay on top of the box. 

I do want to put their dating off until march just because I want to have them switch toys and litter boxes before hand, I mean not necessarily we will see how things go. I have such a more positive outlook since now them bonding actually feels a little more realistic and their reactions are completely normal to each other! 

Phoenix IS molting a lot!!! I can`t get her to stop, the daily brushing doesn`t help. This morning I clipped her nails and I plucked some fur off her butt and left it on the toilet, then I brought Hippogryff into the bathroom to clip his nails and when I showed him the fur, I assure him there were no bunnies harmed in there  It just looked like I skinned her or something thats how much fur there was! 

Thank you as well for checking into this blog. I haven`t exactly been consistent but I am working close to 60 hours a week now!!! Insane, but you`ve got to do what you got to do, which means I can be more generous to my buns


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## Chrisdoc

Michelle, it´s great to see you back on here and good to see the two of them getting on better, I love the pics of them sitting back to back as though they´re purposely ignoring each other haha. And the one with them lying together is so good, they look so comfy together. 

It is good getting another perspective and it is also true that sometimes we never see the wood for the trees and the cage set up is so much better now. I think you´re right to go slowly and give them lots of time, I´m sure that we´ll be seeing them together eventually. 

OMG her fur is so lush and thick, it looks really soft but a real pain, I bet at the moment. I know how you feel as Bandy loses fur daily and it just gets everywhere. Compared to him, I hardly notice with the other two. 

Mine are still not perfect but we´ve had a couple of dates and a few time outs together and the first one to misbehave gets put back in the sin bin so they are learning now and seem to be tolerating each other much better so I´m hopeful that we´re getting back to where we were. However, as with you, I´m not rushing things as I want to make sure that this time it stays that way.


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## holtzchick

Omg!!!!! It is SO much better to see how this set up is working for them!!!! They got into a little tiff a few days ago about hippo and his personal boundaries and I think it's helping them work out their dominance issue because now it seems like Phoenix is actually getting attached to him  she will seek hm out when she is out of her cage and is learning not to pull his fur through the bars anymore. When he gets upset he will simply sleep in his tent or away from her so she is learning what he will and will not tolerate and vice versa.... Today I watched phoenix go to pull his fur through the bars and then she stopped and instead just laid down next to him with her ears back completely relaxed even though her cage is open and she has the freedom to come out and hop around! I love them and I'm so happy it's becoming a positive thing! I am going to wait until march 15th to start dating them and hopefully it stays positive until then! This is like a 180 degree turn around from before!!! 

On other news there is a pet store closing near me so they were having crazy sales. I ended up buying the buns deer antlers to see how they would like them and I also bought matching bowls but one pink and one blue and I also bought them matching harnesses. They're not the h style harnesses they're actually just the step in harnesses that they put their front paws through and they only cost me $2 each!! They seem to like them just fine and move around with ease. Hers is obviously pink and his is all black  I'm going to get them name tags made too so if I decide to take them somewhere in the summer they can wear them.

I also have decided to slowly start clicker training them. Over the past few days every time I got to give them a treat I click the clicker first so they learn to associate the clicking with treats  when they realize that's what the click means then I will start training them to do tricks...

What can I say, Hippogryff has bonded so much with me yesterday i bent over and he just ran over to me and laid beside me for 15 minutes while I pet him. He near darn just about fell asleep!! He is such a darling. He also now allows me to touch his toys and other belongings in his cage without grunting or attacking me  I love him..... Oh god my bunnies make me melt!!!


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## Chrisdoc

Michelle what great news and good to see that things are so much more positive now. Sounds as those things have changed for the good and that they are now starting to get attached to each other and making positive responses now instead of negative. And you sound so much happier that you´re now actually looking forward to the bonding. I´m sure the cage change you made was a major factor in this. 

I´ve bought one harness ages ago but only tried it a couple of times and they hated it but suppose i ought to get it back out and try again. 

Let us know how the clicker training goes, I love it when bunnies learn these things so quickly, well they are such smart little devils that sometimes it amazes me what they get up to. 

I caught one naughty bunny on the dining room table tonight helping himself to banana, I was terrified as I came in cos I knew he´d bolt and jump and the drop is about 75cm. No sweat, he´s such a character. He got up there a second time when I was in the kitchen getting their nightly salad ready. 

So yes, they are just capable of anything. I feel the same about mine, they just creep in there and take over. 

The pet antlers...can´t figure those out, you´ll have to explain. Wish some of the pet stores over here would have a sale´, I´m waiting till I go back to the Uk some time, I´m sure I´d come back with a suitcase full of stuff.


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## holtzchick

agnesthelion said:


> Oh michelle what a great post! Made me smile through reading it as I can feel your positivity about things jump off the page!!
> The new setup really must have changed things, that or Phoenix is "giving up" and accepts Hippo as her bud. Lol.
> I'm glad to hear Hippo has bonded better with you. I still struggle in that area with Archie. But then I wonder if I'm to blame unknowingly, I'm so attached to Agnes and her to me so I tend to gravitate towards her and I don't even realize it!
> Awesome pet store closing deals. Tell me about the deer antlers. I haven't heard of these for bun toys. I'm assuming they like to chew on them?



Thank you I feel like I'm just jumping for joy lol!! 

The fact that you're not bonding as much with Archie would make sense that it's because of your favoritism of agnes. I felt bad for Phoenix because of the way bonding was going and I allowed her more out time and more pets and such but now I make sure to treat them equally (not that you're not doing that lol) and I've simply realized that one has pros and cons that the other one doesn't. 

Deer antlers Are mostly for dogs but they do make smaller ones for rabbits. They're naturally shed and cut and super strong they're also great for adding extra calcium into the diet and are very resistant to bitng and naming


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## holtzchick

Chrisdoc said:


> Michelle what great news and good to see that things are so much more positive now. Sounds as those things have changed for the good and that they are now starting to get attached to each other and making positive responses now instead of negative. And you sound so much happier that you´re now actually looking forward to the bonding. I´m sure the cage change you made was a major factor in this.
> 
> I´ve bought one harness ages ago but only tried it a couple of times and they hated it but suppose i ought to get it back out and try again.
> 
> Let us know how the clicker training goes, I love it when bunnies learn these things so quickly, well they are such smart little devils that sometimes it amazes me what they get up to.
> 
> I caught one naughty bunny on the dining room table tonight helping himself to banana, I was terrified as I came in cos I knew he´d bolt and jump and the drop is about 75cm. No sweat, he´s such a character. He got up there a second time when I was in the kitchen getting their nightly salad ready.
> 
> So yes, they are just capable of anything. I feel the same about mine, they just creep in there and take over.
> 
> The pet antlers...can´t figure those out, you´ll have to explain. Wish some of the pet stores over here would have a sale´, I´m waiting till I go back to the Uk some time, I´m sure I´d come back with a suitcase full of stuff.



It never ceases to amaze me where bunnies can go if they focus enough energy on it. I have seen both of mine clear a playpen without even touching the top of it with their hind legs lol!! Most off the time I think they're just too lazy !! 

Check out my reply About the deer antlers to Lisa as I'm too lazy to type it out again on my iPad and my laptop isn't working bc some bunnies decided the charger would work MUCH better with some chewing reinforcement LOL 

They're actually not crazy at all about the antlers I'm thinking of smearing them in applesauce to get them to chew on them bc I know hipster loves to destroy toys lol.


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## holtzchick

So far so good!! I've been switching their enclosures nightly and even though Hippogryff will not always lay with Phoenix and sometimes lay in his tent instead I figure a little progress is better than none at all. For example they're laying together right now, hipster is sprawled across the bars of the cage and phoenix is turned with her butt to him but at least their butts are touching and they're relaxing together lol. 

I actually watched her pull some of his fur out yesterday while he was grooming himself. I don't know if he didn't notice or just didn't care... Maybe they're sorting their dominance issues out now... That would be so amazing. I'm so attached to Hippogryff now that I'm determined to get their bond to work no matter what!!!


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## Chrisdoc

Michelle, it´s such good news and the fact that they´re together without been together and ignoring each other can only be good. I think you´d done absolutely the right thing giving them all the time they need to sort out their differences. 

I was laughing last night as he was up on the chair again just having another look and I shouted his name and off he shot. He´s the one I have to keep my eye on all the time but I love it when he comes on the sofa and sniffs at the computer and licks my hand and lets me (sometimes) stroke him. He is sparing with his shows of affection but when he does, it makes me feel so good as he´s such a lovely little fellow and I´m mad about him. 

Those antlers sound interesting...haven´t seen anything like that here must have a look on the internet.

I had mine out together again last night for about 45 minutes and they were OK, I didn´t want to force things so I put one away as usual. I do feel though that they´re getting better as, quite often, they will sit next to each other on oppposite sides of the cage and just groom with their backs to each other and now there´s no nose bumping through the cage. So, I also am feeling better about mine but will still keep it pretty low key as I don´t want to spoil things. It does make you feel good though when things are looking up.


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## whitelop

I'm glad they're sorting it out without actually being together, it sounds like there is a good chance of this working out well! 
I'm also so happy that you're so positive about it!


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## holtzchick

Okay so I'm in a super rush to Get to the gym but I thought I'd mention that I found a store near me that will order in 50 lbs of oxbow hay and 50 lbs of the pellets too.... That makes me happy because my two are eating me out of house and home lol I might be exaggerating with the pellets though


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Lol, Ash eats and eats too , too bad no stores near me don't sell 50 pounds of rabbit pellets, and hay !

I'm glad to hear your two are doing better with the bonding! 

Good Luck!


----------



## holtzchick

Ilovemyrabbit said:


> Lol, Ash eats and eats too , too bad no stores near me don't sell 50 pounds of rabbit pellets, and hay !
> 
> I'm glad to hear your two are doing better with the bonding!
> 
> Good Luck!



If any of the stores are privately owned even the larger chain ones, they can special order it from oxbow for you if they ask because it's not an item that they stock on the shelves I mean come on how many people buy 50lbs of hay at a pet shop. Not many lol


----------



## Chrisdoc

Wish I could get stuff in bulk, would be so much cheaper as well. Mine are small but do eat loads, Yeah, 50lbs of hay is a lot of hay lol.


----------



## lyndym

Michelle, I just read through this entiiire thread, what a roller coaster! I'm so glad you decided to stick with your mission to bond Hippo and Phoenix, especially since their troubles in the beginning sound a lot like what I experienced with Doc and Aurora last week. I will definitely be following your progress, I'm sure I'll get some tips as well! Also, both Phoenix and Hippo are adorable, and how you and Phoenix came together melted my heart. :bunnyheart


----------



## holtzchick

lyndym said:


> Michelle, I just read through this entiiire thread, what a roller coaster! I'm so glad you decided to stick with your mission to bond Hippo and Phoenix, especially since their troubles in the beginning sound a lot like what I experienced with Doc and Aurora last week. I will definitely be following your progress, I'm sure I'll get some tips as well! Also, both Phoenix and Hippo are adorable, and how you and Phoenix came together melted my heart. :bunnyheart



Awh thank you.... I'm guilty.... She is my heart bunny, she just found me and immediately hit a soft spot.... You know yesterday I watched her whole heatedly want to flop over next to flopped Hippogryff and he grunted at her so she came onto the couch instead.. For the first time since I've had her, we had a ten minute petting session while laying next to me licking at my hands and face... Its love... 

Both of them want to bond but they're learning to trust each other. I've seen each nip at the other so when they go to lay down next to eachother the other one is cautious and gets up at which point I will intervene if I see a potential nip so that they can start building that trust. 

Best of luck to you and I hope that you start a blog as well to track any issues you might be having. I know many of us would be more than interested


----------



## lyndym

I actually just started my own blog! Somehow I got up at 4AM and was not able to get back to sleep! It's a bit sad as I decided to tell of my first girl, Dora, but next time I'll get Aurora in there and let everyone know how she is adjusting to her new home.


----------



## Chrisdoc

Michelle, sounds like progress to me and you´re just letting them go along at their pace and they will get there. 

Just noticed your new blog Doc and Dora and Aurora so will head along to take a look. I love reading everyone else´s story and how they came to own their bunnies.


----------



## holtzchick

I agree, I'm reading it as we speak. But as promised, here is a *way overdue *_photo-bomb_!! I went out and bought a new laptop charger today and well uploaded all of the pictures that I've been dying to as of late. I'm sorry about the dark quality some of them have, my flash is messed because those were taken in broad daylight ?? 

You know how I always describe Phoenix as annoying me while I'm on the computer doing something... Here is a perfect example... 

I was on my iPad, and just as always she decided to dig and nip at my arm... 
.






Close up!!!

*





*Playing with her toy... (you can see Hipster in the background)
*



*

she's deciding what she should do next.... 






Then she just decided to flop down next to his cage






I love how she is sprawled and how he's cleaning himself in that picture  

Then he decided hmmm... I should get a little closer!!






hahaha My little lumps!!! (note, their positions switch quite frequently but usually they're side by side)


----------



## holtzchick

Feeding time together, as always..






Because it's hard to get a picture of him... (When he's out, he's popping and binky-ing like crazy!!!) 











CLOSE UP!






Finally close up of my fatty eating! (SHE LOVES FOOD!!)






Oh and by the way, I thought I should mention that since I've tried mediating their relaxation time with petting and mixing up their scent's... they are getting more used to each other, as in, her cage is open right now and she is FLOPPED next to him 

Heading in the right direction slowly but surely!!!


----------



## Chrisdoc

Michelle, that is all such good news and the photos are so good. 

I´d forgotten how pretty she is as it´s so long since I´ve seen a photo and they do look really relaxed by each other. I love to see them eating at the same time on opposite sides of the fence. And I love photos up close and personal so the one of his little pink mouth and teeth, well I love it. And the one of her flopped out, she´s got such cute thumpers. 

I love them all and I love his spot nose...you´re doing the right thing, slowly but surely.


----------



## holtzchick

OH... 

and I just caught Hipster in his tent


----------



## Chrisdoc

Michelle, just love them both and so happy to see so many photos. You know how much I love seeing everyone else´s bunnies, these two are just gorgeous.


----------



## holtzchick

Awh thank you Chris!!! I love seeing your bunnies too as they're all so drastically different and drastically adorable !!!


----------



## Chrisdoc

I love seeing everyone elses as they are all so different and unique and I just love bunnies, they´re just such great little animals and so much smarter everyone thinks, well everyone but someone who owns one lol. I´ve had dogs and cats but bunnies just amaze me every day with things they do and they learn so quickly.


----------



## lyndym

Aw, I just broke out in a huge smile to read of Phoenix's big flop next to Hippo.  I really love their little tents, but I'm pretty sure Doc at least would rip his to pieces in a matter of hours!


----------



## whitelop

I just had to catch up on a few days, I'm so glad I got to see some recent pictures! They're so adorable and they look pretty happy together. They seem to be doing really well together. I bet that when you start bonding again, they'll get along really well and everything will be fine!


----------



## HolyHandGrenade

Yay for pics!!! They're so sweet-looking, but it's hard for me to remember that most everyone else's bunnies are small compared to Monty. I just caught myself thinking "wow, they have a tent big enough for a...waitaminute, I own a giant"


----------



## holtzchick

whitelop said:


> I just had to catch up on a few days, I'm so glad I got to see some recent pictures! They're so adorable and they look pretty happy together. They seem to be doing really well together. I bet that when you start bonding again, they'll get along really well and everything will be fine!



Thank you and you know what I think they're starting to bond already... Hippo has been searching for Phoenix nonstop and laying next to her even when the cage is open and vice versa... They're in love


----------



## holtzchick

HolyHandGrenade said:


> Yay for pics!!! They're so sweet-looking, but it's hard for me to remember that most everyone else's bunnies are small compared to Monty. I just caught myself thinking "wow, they have a tent big enough for a...waitaminute, I own a giant"



You know what... They do have a tent big enough for monty... You know those smaller child play tents,, that's perfect size lol. 

Thank you though


----------



## holtzchick

agnesthelion said:


> Loved seeing the recent pictures and I'm glad to see the progress between the two. Laying next to each other is huge, and it's great they eat next to each other like that too!



Thank you  I swear I can see the bond forming... It makes me melt!!!


----------



## HolyHandGrenade

Well yeah, probably big enough for her, but not small enough to be practical in my apartment. I'm terrible with horizontal space, meaning I clutter-f__k everything. I'm working on it, but I just don't have enough space to store everything! Ugh, hobbies.


----------



## holtzchick

LOL.... yeah, I get you... my boyfriend calls my hobbies *bunnies*..... because they take up my whole apartment.


----------



## Chrisdoc

Michelle, that is bloody marvellous, so good to hear that they´re in luuurrve. 
I am so crossing everything for this. 

Clutter, my house looks like one big storage space at the moment and I really have to get into the spare room and de-clutter...mostly, chuck things out but I keep putting it off...maybe there´s something in there I need to keep just in case lol.


----------



## holtzchick

lol.... Just thought I should quickly post that I caught Phoenix behind the couch with her back to the wall, pushing the back of the couch with her feet... I was like Phoenix WTF are you doing?! and she just looked at me and got back on her feet. What a strange bun. 

I've been pondering lately as to how the litter box during dates thing works. Like I've seen people put a litter box in with their buns filled with hay during a bunny date however, I realized if I put a box in, won't they fight over who gets to go in the box? I'm assuming this would entail having a box large enough for both to be in and eat hay at once? 

If anyone can chime in on this that would be great  Other than that, like I said I'm not in a rush. In fact, today they're not laying with each other at all yet. I'm not concerned, perhaps they just want space and will do so later. 

Alright, I'm off for my run!! Hope everyone has a fantastic day!!


----------



## holtzchick

agnesthelion said:


> UHg.....keep posting about running. I need the motivation to start again. Good GAWD I'm in a work out slump like never before in my life. I'm 35 and have worked out since I was 20. Could this be the beginning of the end........I'm entering frumpy-land  how depressing.......
> 
> Anywho...litterbox thing. During the first neutral dates, no litter box was used. They were short enough AND I didn't want anybun claiming territory over anything yet.
> 
> Then, when I moved to non neutral dates, I used 2 or 3 (depending on the day, how long of a date etc ) BRAND new litterboxes. Especially at the very beginning of moving to non neutral area.
> 
> Then, they each kinda started going in both so I kept them "dirty" with both their scents so neither could claim territory over a certain one. I still kept 3 litterboxes in the xpen area (maybe I overdid it but I wanted them to have lots of peeing options  ) until shortly before they were officially moved in together and I took it down to two boxes and that's what I've had for them ever since.



Thank you!!

OH and if you must know, I ran 6km in 1 hour today... I'm preparing to run a 10 Km on May 5th. I'm comfortable with being on my feet for long periods of time, I'm just trying to work on speed vs. distance. Being in the gym is the most relaxing part of my day... I'm at work for 8 hours, take care of the buns and boyfriend when I'm home, cook, clean, but nothing gets me more relaxed than the gym! I have much more energy than I ever did!!


----------



## whitelop

Am I the only one who likes to drink a beer THEN go to the gym? lmao. I wish I were kidding! When I did go to the gym, my friend and I would stop at the bar and drink a beer and then go to the gym. hahah. Its like carbo loading, it gave us lots of energy and we ran for miles! hahaha. I miss going to to the gym.

Yes, I know thats not normal gym behavior and I think most of them have a no drinking and tredmill policy but we were like whatever. We only had a few hours in the evening to do what we needed to do and it made more sense to drink a beer before we went to the gym! They were light beers too. haha. I don't condone drinking and elliptical-ling though. Thats just how I roll. 

I also can not wait until the weather gets better and I can get out into my yard and work my garden. Because I swear to you guys, going to the gym is one thing, but working with dirt and digging holes and clearing portions of land by hand is a totally different work out and a BETTER work out. Its no wonder farmers are in good shape, its a hard thing to do. Everything is heavy and I have a husband who doesn't like to help me do 'my' things. haha. I tell you what, if you need an arm work out...dig some holes with a post hole digger. That is the most cruel yard tool ever. 
And now I'm done. LOL


----------



## Azerane

Hey, just read through your blog recently. It's amazing to see how far a rescued rabbit can come. You can see the difference so much even in photos. It's like a transformation. Good on you for rescuing a beautiful bun, and best of luck with your continued bonding efforts of the two.


----------



## holtzchick

whitelop said:


> Am I the only one who likes to drink a beer THEN go to the gym? lmao. I wish I were kidding! When I did go to the gym, my friend and I would stop at the bar and drink a beer and then go to the gym. hahah. Its like carbo loading, it gave us lots of energy and we ran for miles! hahaha. I miss going to to the gym.
> 
> Yes, I know thats not normal gym behavior and I think most of them have a no drinking and tredmill policy but we were like whatever. We only had a few hours in the evening to do what we needed to do and it made more sense to drink a beer before we went to the gym! They were light beers too. haha. I don't condone drinking and elliptical-ling though. Thats just how I roll.
> 
> I also can not wait until the weather gets better and I can get out into my yard and work my garden. Because I swear to you guys, going to the gym is one thing, but working with dirt and digging holes and clearing portions of land by hand is a totally different work out and a BETTER work out. Its no wonder farmers are in good shape, its a hard thing to do. Everything is heavy and I have a husband who doesn't like to help me do 'my' things. haha. I tell you what, if you need an arm work out...dig some holes with a post hole digger. That is the most cruel yard tool ever.
> And now I'm done. LOL



LOL..., that's funny! It's true though it does give a lot of energy from all the carbs. When going though the idea is to balance your protein and carbs !!! Yes gardening and housework I find is also a workout but I need to work different muscle groups everyday so as not to strain the ones I've already worked on


----------



## holtzchick

Azerane said:


> Hey, just read through your blog recently. It's amazing to see how far a rescued rabbit can come. You can see the difference so much even in photos. It's like a transformation. Good on you for rescuing a beautiful bun, and best of luck with your continued bonding efforts of the two.



Thank you  I was looking at Phoenix the other day since she stopped mounting and I was just thinking wow, I can't believe this is the same bunny I found she just looks beautiful now  I'm so grateful that I could be the one to give her a great forever home!!! Same thing with Hippo too.... One of the things that kind of kept me attached to him is that other people wouldn't get him. He's just grumpy. He throws his toys around, he spills his food everywhere and eats off the floor as soon as I put it in, he grunts and boxes you if he really doesn't feel like attention and he has already destroyed my lovely new couch throw and he chewed one of the wool balls on my rug in half :/ 

I've just come to terms that he's a grump and I find it really cute now. He reminds me of a spoiled kid  

Thank you for reading my blog!!!


----------



## Chrisdoc

They are both beautiful bunnies and you can see they are loved which is as important a part of their life as diet and exercise and all the other stuff. 

They both look so well and I never tire of looking a pics of them both or hearing about them the same as with everyone elses. We all love our little guys and girls and it´s great to share how happy they make us with everyone else. 

I´m still rooting for them and know that the day will come when we have the wedding photo....hell, this is just a very long engagement lol.


----------



## whitelop

Michelle, you were saying that Hippo boxes you and grunts at you when he isn't in the mood for attention, Ellie does the SAME thing! She's grunts and boxes me all the time! She's still pretty sweet over all, but sometimes she just goes a little nuts. Ugh, hormones.


----------



## holtzchick

Lol I really don't understand my two goofs! This morning I allowed them some free time, Phoenix being out and hippo being caged. The entire time she wanted to nip him and he wanted to lunge at her. Of course I intervened and pet them side by side. Then I finally gave up.... As soon as I gave up... She went to nip him, he lunged/grunted at her and then it was like he put her in her place and she flopped next to him LOL it's liketheyre lying side by side flopped right now and I'm thinking what the hell just happened here?? They look like old buddies now!!! 

By the way I picked up my 50 lbs of hay and I can say HOLY there is a lot of hay there. The box is half my height!! And when I went to go fill up their usual storage container that I buy hay for that costs me $25, it didn't even make a dent in the bag lol!! I will post a picture later today


----------



## agnesthelion

I really don't understand your two either! Lol. They are confusing. Sometimes I wonder if the wear them down method is two need. Just "force" them together and don't give up til they give in 

Wow, that is a lot of hay! Where will you store it? If it didn't even make a dent in the bag in wonder how long that will last you??? Hahaha


----------



## holtzchick

agnesthelion said:


> I really don't understand your two either! Lol. They are confusing. Sometimes I wonder if the wear them down method is two need. Just "force" them together and don't give up til they give in
> 
> Wow, that is a lot of hay! Where will you store it? If it didn't even make a dent in the bag in wonder how long that will last you??? Hahaha



I seriously think they would do well with the wear down method. They will nip at eachother if Im not there to supervise but if I'm there and I make sure no one gets nipped they're best friends??! 

I will post a picture later today and you can be the judge of how long it will last. I will tell you it's a great value but it's not as good quality as the smaller bags. Perhaps it's just bad luck as I've heard good things about the bulk oxbow hay :/


----------



## holtzchick

I really wasn't kidding.... this is what the 50 lbs of hay looks like in my den  












It's literally half my height!! 

YAY.. I got a new charger today so I can stay up to date on all your blogs! I hate replying using the iPad, it just lags for me


----------



## whitelop

Michelle, you are such a tiny person! haha. That is a HUGE box of hay! I guess its as big as a bale, but in a different shape because its in a box. My bale is 50 lbs too but in a rectangle. 
As for the hay quality, the hay is probably from last year and its the end of it probably. Everyone around here is running low on hay now and everything is yellow. Even my hay is starting to turn yellow and I have to supplement the bale hay with little bags of different hay to make sure that Ellie is getting enough nutrients and "good" hay. She only gets bag hay as treat though, like one smallish handful a day because that crap is TOO expensive for her to eat it all the time. 
At least with your big box you can feed them A LOT of hay! haha. Right now with the bale I have, I'm trying to find uses for it because I would like to be gone when I get the new bale in the summer. So I'm like, oh chickens have some hay. I'm shoving hay all over the place for Ellie to eat. haha. Its ridiculous.


----------



## holtzchick

whitelop said:


> Michelle, you are such a tiny person! haha. That is a HUGE box of hay! I guess its as big as a bale, but in a different shape because its in a box. My bale is 50 lbs too but in a rectangle.
> As for the hay quality, the hay is probably from last year and its the end of it probably. Everyone around here is running low on hay now and everything is yellow. Even my hay is starting to turn yellow and I have to supplement the bale hay with little bags of different hay to make sure that Ellie is getting enough nutrients and "good" hay. She only gets bag hay as treat though, like one smallish handful a day because that crap is TOO expensive for her to eat it all the time.
> At least with your big box you can feed them A LOT of hay! haha. Right now with the bale I have, I'm trying to find uses for it because I would like to be gone when I get the new bale in the summer. So I'm like, oh chickens have some hay. I'm shoving hay all over the place for Ellie to eat. haha. Its ridiculous.



Lmao, Morgan your comments always make me laugh. I'm not a tiny person, I'm actually 5'6 so average height, I'm telling you it's just a big box of hay. I plan on making it into a cardboard castle when it's empty since I never get the opportunity to get big boxes like that in my house


----------



## JBun

That's about the same size as the compressed timothy bales I buy. The hay doesn't actually look too bad. I'm sure they put the premium stuff in the bags. Since we pay a fortune for those little bags, it should be the nicest stuff! Your hay looks pretty green, about the same as mine. I think it all varies a bit, depending on the drying and baling, and I've also noticed that the second cut timothy tends to be a little more brown than the first cut. It may have to do with how the softer second cut, dries out in the field. Maybe the first cut dries better because of the thicker stems, so it stays more green. I figure it doesn't matter if it's not perfect, since feeding hay is mostly for the roughage, for good digestion and tooth wear, and that the main part of the required nutition is in the pellets and veggies. 

That should last you a while. I go through mine pretty quick, but I have a lot more rabbits that are munching down on it.


----------



## holtzchick

JBun said:


> That's about the same size as the compressed timothy bales I buy. The hay doesn't actually look too bad. I'm sure they put the premium stuff in the bags. Since we pay a fortune for those little bags, it should be the nicest stuff! Your hay looks pretty green, about the same as mine. I think it all varies a bit, depending on the drying and baling, and I've also noticed that the second cut timothy tends to be a little more brown than the first cut. It may have to do with how the softer second cut, dries out in the field. Maybe the first cut dries better because of the thicker stems, so it stays more green. I figure it doesn't matter if it's not perfect, since feeding hay is mostly for the roughage, for good digestion and tooth wear, and that the main part of the required nutition is in the pellets and veggies.
> 
> That should last you a while. I go through mine pretty quick, but I have a lot more rabbits that are munching down on it.



I'm definitely counting that it will last me a while! It feels like I'm always out of hay since my two eat a LOT of it!  

Hmmm... Thanks! That makes me feel better because I've never bought a bale of hay... I've had horses when I was a kid but that was years ago I can't remember what it looked like :/ I opened the box and was surprised at the quality but meh.... How do I store this stuff?! I left it in the box in the bag (which does have ventilation holes in it) and I shut it and put it in my walk in closet since thats the only free space I've got :/


----------



## whitelop

That should be fine in the closet. It doesn't need to be air tight, but it needs to stay well ventilated out of the sun and moisture. So the closet is a good place! haha. Unless your closet is the rainforest.


----------



## agnesthelion

Omg that is a huge box of hay and it does make you look tinier than 5'6" haha. It's not the best picture of you but you look like how I pictured


----------



## Chrisdoc

That is one big box of hay so you´ll have enough for quite a while now....actually looks like you could fit in the box lol. I´m always amazed at the different colours that the hay comes in, I´ve had from really green to an awful looking strawy colour. The stuff I´m getting at the moment is about right, mostly green but with some brown mixed in. MIne like it so I suppose that´s the important thing.


----------



## lyndym

Ahhh, that box of hay is huge! Thanks for posting a picture, I've been thinking of trying to order one myself.

Also the similarities between us continue, I am also 5'6".


----------



## holtzchick

Lol... yeah, big box of hay... btw 5'6 is an average height for most people  

I will say that the box of hay is coming in handy! Phoenix empties her hay rack minimum once per day and I CRAM it full always... she just eats SO much  

Anyways, I would like to post a picture of Hipster DBF-ing because he just does it so well  I caught a quick pic of him last night... 







His legs are stiff and all


----------



## agnesthelion

Love me some DBF's!! That one is awesome. My two aren't very good at them


----------



## JjGoesBounce

I just finished reading all of your blog!
Gosh, I love it!
Phoenix is really a beautiful bun and I love the whole story! You write beautifully, one of those writers that can combine humor with love. That's a really rare gift!
Definitely following this blog

Jj


----------



## holtzchick

Thanks Lisa


----------



## holtzchick

JjGoesBounce said:


> I just finished reading all of your blog!
> Gosh, I love it!
> Phoenix is really a beautiful bun and I love the whole story! You write beautifully, one of those writers that can combine humor with love. That's a really rare gift!
> Definitely following this blog
> 
> Jj




I'm kind of disappointed that you've never read Phoenix's blog until now...  You were following Peter's so closely! Well, now you know her story. It's a crazy coincidence isn't it?! How I just happened to find Phoenix. Funny part is, I wasn't planning on keeping her I had my hands full with 3 other pets! Now I couldn't imagine life without her! 

Thank you Jj


----------



## JjGoesBounce

I'd read bits and pieces but I had a lot of spare time on my hands so I decided to read the whole thing!

Jj


----------



## holtzchick

JjGoesBounce said:


> I'd read bits and pieces but I had a lot of spare time on my hands so I decided to read the whole thing!
> 
> Jj



Ahhh Gotcha!


----------



## JjGoesBounce

Yep and I rated your blog = 5 stars!

Jj


----------



## Chrisdoc

Michelle, I just love that flop...he looks kind of like when I´d be worried he´s OK.....so no doubt, I´d wake him up checking on him....he´s so cute. 

How ya doin with the old bondin...I´ve been off for a couple of weeks what with the cold and all but they´re getting on fine so I´ll probably give them time out together this week as they seem to be needing it.


----------



## HolyHandGrenade

Oh duh, I updated my thread with pics, but forgot to upload the very pics I meant to include...an epic Monty flop! 

*goes back to fix my thread*


----------



## holtzchick

Chrisdoc said:


> Michelle, I just love that flop...he looks kind of like when I´d be worried he´s OK.....so no doubt, I´d wake him up checking on him....he´s so cute.
> 
> How ya doin with the old bondin...I´ve been off for a couple of weeks what with the cold and all but they´re getting on fine so I´ll probably give them time out together this week as they seem to be needing it.




Thanks Chris! Yeah, I'm starting dates on the 15th so fingers crossed for that. 

I'm glad you're all better!


----------



## holtzchick

HolyHandGrenade said:


> Oh duh, I updated my thread with pics, but forgot to upload the very pics I meant to include...an epic Monty flop!
> 
> *goes back to fix my thread*




Okay... I thought Hipster had a wicked DBF but Monty takes the cake!! Holy geeze, I instantly got freaked out!!


----------



## holtzchick

I've been meaning to post a pic of the view from my balcony and I didn't have time to take pictures in the daylight so I just snapped one so sorry about the quality, it's dark and it's raining. Usually I'm able to see Toronto, but atleast it's a nice view of all the buildings lit up  






The two tall buildings on the left are the "world renowned" Marilyn Monroe Towers... I wanted to get a unit in there but A) it's really expensive and B) it's FILLED with people renting and so you're left with a mixed class of people and when you're paying that much for a unit, you don't want to be bothered by your nonsense neighbors :/


----------



## holtzchick

I've already been up with the bunnies for an hour or so and let hippo out. He flopped next to Phoenix's cage but she wanted to nip him in the but and then went and laid on the opposite corner. They're so weird, I'm guessing maybe she likes to have space and he likes to cuddle... I'm still going to start dates in a few days since they seem to sort of like and really not mind each other  











And now, they're eating together, it's sweet


----------



## whitelop

Have they been jumping over their enclosures? They're really tall! I didn't realize how tall they were. 

Your view is really cool! 

They're both such good looking buns and they look really good together. I really hope the bonding goes well in a few days, I think it will!


----------



## agnesthelion

Omg that view is amazing!!!!!! Chris has a good view too. I was joking I should post a picture of my view. Haha. It's trees and backs of suburban houses. Nothing like you guys have!!


----------



## whitelop

I know I should put a picture of my view too! Some trees and an old persons house or a picture of our field! haha. Nothing as grand as yours or Chris'. LOL


----------



## Chrisdoc

That is some good view, love all the lights and being so high up. 

I love seeing views that others see every day...I think every view has something positive and sometimes you don´t see something interesting that a new eye sees. I just find where all of you live so interesting as it is so different so come on guys, get those pictures down for posterity. 

I just love these two together, love Hippos colouring and Phoenix is such a pretty girl. Your living room looks so neat compared to mine lol. I just so love them lounging together, they are two good looking buns who will become the coolest couple.


----------



## Ilovemyrabbit

That is an awesome view you have there, I'll post some pictures of my view from the porch. So your planning on putting them together on the 15th? I'll be watching for updates can't wait to hear how they do together.

Soo glad to hear that your two are getting along better. So your planning on putting them together on the 15th? I'll be watching for updates can't wait to hear how they do together.

Best of luck! I'm rooting for your two!


----------



## holtzchick

whitelop said:


> Have they been jumping over their enclosures? They're really tall! I didn't realize how tall they were.
> 
> Your view is really cool!
> 
> They're both such good looking buns and they look really good together. I really hope the bonding goes well in a few days, I think it will!



Thank you  I think it will be beneficial to put them together  
They were able to almost jump their enclosures before so this is just for me so I'm not super paranoid that they can get to eachother. It's also what the coordinator from the rescue advised...

Btw I would still love to see your view I think it is very interesting to see other people's views. When I was younger, my family and I lived on a hobby farm with horses so it's not foreign to me


----------



## holtzchick

agnesthelion said:


> Omg that view is amazing!!!!!! Chris has a good view too. I was joking I should post a picture of my view. Haha. It's trees and backs of suburban houses. Nothing like you guys have!!



Haha thanks, again I would love to see your view regardless. But I think we must agree that Chris probably has the most spectacular view!!


----------



## holtzchick

Chrisdoc said:


> That is some good view, love all the lights and being so high up.
> 
> I love seeing views that others see every day...I think every view has something positive and sometimes you don´t see something interesting that a new eye sees. I just find where all of you live so interesting as it is so different so come on guys, get those pictures down for posterity.
> 
> I just love these two together, love Hippos colouring and Phoenix is such a pretty girl. Your living room looks so neat compared to mine lol. I just so love them lounging together, they are two good looking buns who will become the coolest couple.



I completely agree, I totally love seeing where other people live and trying to imagine myself in their shoes. 

I love them together too it makes me so much happier !!!


----------



## holtzchick

Ilovemyrabbit said:


> That is an awesome view you have there, I'll post some pictures of my view from the porch. So your planning on putting them together on the 15th? I'll be watching for updates can't wait to hear how they do together.
> 
> Soo glad to hear that your two are getting along better. So your planning on putting them together on the 15th? I'll be watching for updates can't wait to hear how they do together.
> 
> Best of luck! I'm rooting for your two!



Thank you so much I'm hoping for the best


----------



## whitelop

Chris does have the most spectacular view! I guess maybe she has the most "wanted" view, because if any of us were there we would be on vacation! haha. 

I'll take some pictures of the view from my house to show everyone. Its not great! haha. Not like everyone elses.


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## lyndym

Wow your view is great! I live on the top (third) floor of my building, and from my balcony we can see the houses across the street, some power lines, and a huge billboard. Not very pretty at all. At least the billboard isn't trashy at the moment, just some university advert. Sometimes it's for stuff like bail bonds and such, not a real eye-pleaser!

Your pens are very tall, but I really like that idea. Doc can and will jump over most anything, but I would love to get him into a pen. Especially since he and Rory are separated right now and the extra cage I'm using is so small. (Decent size for Rory, but not for Doc.) I also really love the flooring, where did you get it? It reminds me of elementary school and giant floor puzzles! Anyway, my apartment is carpeted, so I'd definitely need flooring if I moved the buns to pens/NIC enclosures.


----------



## Chrisdoc

It´s one of those days, just finished a post and it´s gone. See if I can remember. 

Michelle, love all those lights and imagine myself people watching from on high.

Thanks guys for your kind words. Yes, you would probably be on your holidays and when the sun shines everything looks better. It hasn´t looked great the last few days with all the rain and low cloud we´ve had. My friend´s view is pretty great too looking over towards Malaga and the sea. Must see if I can find a pic as I love going to her house and just sitting outside and enjoying the peace and quite. 

I love the flooring as well and I think I´ve found some over here so I´m going to get it before the weekend so I can put it down when I clean out on Sunday. I´m just hoping they don´t decide to eat it but I´ve got to have a go.


----------



## agnesthelion

We should start a "where do you live" kinda thread! I do agree that it's fun to see where people live. And yes Chris are right, we may think our view is boring but we look at it everyday. We could talk about what we love about where we live, what we don't. Weather. Food. Culture. It could be fun!


----------



## Chrisdoc

I think that´s a great idea...I love hearing about interesting things to do where you all live and places to visit, who´s from there, what traditional dishes that you eat. I also find it fascinating to see how you shop and what you buy and the difference in things on offer between there and here. I think it would be great fun.


----------



## holtzchick

Today is the big day!!!!! 

Gonna introduce the bunnies and I have a feeling it will go MUCH better than last time  

I'll have them hang out together after I finish work, it's been such a long week and it's not over yet, but SO so close!!


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## agnesthelion

Oh gosh Michelle my fingers and toes are crossed for you! Good luck!


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## whitelop

Yay! You have to let us know what happens! I'm so excited.


----------



## Chrisdoc

Hey Michelle, this is a big moment and i have everything crossed I can possibly cross...please let us have some good news :goodluck


----------



## holtzchick

*GOOD NEWS!!! *

They had a VERY short 30-45 second date with each other... Phoenix immediately wanted to nip him and vice versa but once they settled down it was great! All she cared about was me feeding them treats and he didn't want any so he just nuzzled into her tummy and didn't try to nip once  I think she even groomed his head for a split second, then I gave her a treat and ended it!!! Sooooooo happy!! 

I just wanted to jump on quickly to update y'all if you've been wondering! I'm off to the gym and I will give them another 30 second date later! That couldn't have gone better if you ask me!


----------



## Chrisdoc

:great:Great news, I am so happy, hope the second date continues to go well...I´m not gonna get over excited but I must admit I´m grinning here.


----------



## agnesthelion

Yay!!!!! Ending it positive that is huge. Keep it up Phoenix and hippo!!


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## holtzchick

OKAY UPDATE ON SECOND DATE!!! 

We have success!!! I made Hippo feel comfortable by giving him a toy which he played with and Phoenix had her treats.... He actually hopped over her at one point but does not attempt to mount or necessarily nip her. When they go face to face though, Phoenix definitely has some tension in her ears to which I cool it off with a treat and some massages. Date 2 went really well... Will do date 3 later tonight in a few hours before I do cage cleaning and thats it until tomorrow night.


----------



## Troller

Glad it's going well. I think what's going to bother me most is being patient enough to keep the dates short. Your seeming to manage that quite well.


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## whitelop

That is such awesome news! I'm so happy they've gotten along so well! I think they'll be bonded before you know it. I also think that waiting and adjusting the cages was the best thing to happen to their perspective bond! You've been so patient and soon your work will have paid off.


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## holtzchick

Troller said:


> Glad it's going well. I think what's going to bother me most is being patient enough to keep the dates short. Your seeming to manage that quite well.



Thanks!! 

It was really frustrating at first but once you get used to it, a month apart might as well be 2 and so forth. 

I think your buns will be much easier!!


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## holtzchick

whitelop said:


> That is such awesome news! I'm so happy they've gotten along so well! I think they'll be bonded before you know it. I also think that waiting and adjusting the cages was the best thing to happen to their perspective bond! You've been so patient and soon your work will have paid off.



Thank you! I hope so, I actually just had their third date for the night and it went okay!! I just really have to watch the length of time. This time it was 45 seconds or maybe more but I was so preoccupied in giving treats that I guess time stretched and I noticed Phoenix sort of ran to him to pull fur which he tensed up and I just separated them and gave them hay to distract them. It worked and I too them out after that. Only good and positive experiences  

I can't believe what a journey it's been and I actually believe they're somewhat neutral now... Although I still sense Phoenix being territorial (darn females!!) 

So looking forward to this journey now...


----------



## agnesthelion

Omg Michelle I'm glad you are seeing some progress. These two are definitely a tough case! I can't believe they are still wanting to pull fur out at this stage. You most surely deserve props for your patience and perseverance through this!!!
Slowly but surely. Immso excited for these two!!


----------



## lyndym

Whoohoo, congratulations! I'm so happy for you and the buns, and your success makes me more optimistic about my buns! Can't wait to hear more positive news.


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Yay! that's fantastic news! I'm so happy for you and the buns! Congratulations! I hope date 3 will go well, I'm sure it will. Keep us updated. I can't wait to here how it goes. I'm also waiting to see their wedding picture .


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## holtzchick

Thank you guys so much for the wonderful comments! I've been meaning to post on all of your blogs because I have been keeping up to date. 

I've just been super busy all week! I've been studying to get a license so I can become a salesperson for vehicles! I got my book last Tuesday and I'm finishing it up tomorrow and taking my test on Thursday or Friday morning!! I can't believe that I've read it soo quickly, but I'm itching to start work  The more money I make the more treats and toys the bunnies get 

I've been doing small dates to which it kind of seems to be helping. Phoenix seems to back off when I separate her from Hippo when I notice she MAY nip... she actually kind of cuddled him today but I think he knew she wanted to nip him because he almost went to nip her... Then I stopped them, gave them both treats and they actually just went their separate ways for a few minutes. It was good. I notice even in cage, she tries less and less to nip his fur and so he is becoming more trusting of her! 

MAN this experience has taught me alot about my buns and their likes vs. dislikes. I kind of am enjoying it because I'm used to having them separated now, but it would really be a lot easier if they just bonded like certain bunnies on here... *cough, Agnes, Archie; cough, Watson, Cricket!!* 
Oh, and I've also learned not to adopt bunnies single... always adopt in pairs  

You know what, I wouldn't mind bonding buns if I had the time to actually stay at home and just devote myself to them however after a long stressful 8 hour day at work, sometimes it's hard to find the dedication to date them and let them out separately etc etc. Then go to the gym, god, this week I worked a full 6 days! I only agreed to it because when I start my new job, it will be much easier and make me feel more secure, but god it was a hard week! 

On a positive note though, the hay has already paid for itself. I already had to refill their hay bin and still the box has not had a dent in it  I love buying bulk and highly recommend it for anyone that has the option to do so! The way Phoenix eats hay, we NEED it.

I just cleaned the bunnies' cages since I ran out of litter and didn't get to pick any up till today... I didn't clean their cage all last week, the smell was bad, but not as bad as I thought it'd be! Those wood stove pellets really work amazing!! Now the buns are just lounging and I'm off to the gym and then I have to hit the books. Study, study study!! :clapping:

*By the way.. I'm surprised theres no nerdy smiley face!! 

Happy Saint Patricks day to all  :clover:


----------



## agnesthelion

Oooh, how exciting. A car saleswoman! What got you interested in that? Are you gonna be selling certain models? Good luck on your test this week!

Oh Michelle, I just wish with all my might that these two would just bond for you. I know it has to be frustrating when you think of my two and other bonded pairs  I have no idea why mine went so smoothly. Sometimes I think it's luck, sometimes I think it was my research and then being SO careful with bonding, and then I end up crediting Agnes because she is the most chill rabbit ever. If she had any attitude at all, I think I may have had problems. She just never, ever ever got mad at Archie.

And even though my two were " easy" I remember thinking during bonding how glad I was I don't work. Well, I'm glad everyday because I love not working, haha, but yes bonding is a lotmof work and I can totally see where younger coming from, working, studying, exercise and bonding buns. Phew!

Anyway, good for younfor sticking to it and when these two bond it will be the biggest satisfaction for you and we will all be so excited!!!!!


----------



## holtzchick

agnesthelion said:


> Oooh, how exciting. A car saleswoman! What got you interested in that? Are you gonna be selling certain models? Good luck on your test this week!
> 
> Oh Michelle, I just wish with all my might that these two would just bond for you. I know it has to be frustrating when you think of my two and other bonded pairs  I have no idea why mine went so smoothly. Sometimes I think it's luck, sometimes I think it was my research and then being SO careful with bonding, and then I end up crediting Agnes because she is the most chill rabbit ever. If she had any attitude at all, I think I may have had problems. She just never, ever ever got mad at Archie.
> 
> And even though my two were " easy" I remember thinking during bonding how glad I was I don't work. Well, I'm glad everyday because I love not working, haha, but yes bonding is a lotmof work and I can totally see where younger coming from, working, studying, exercise and bonding buns. Phew!
> 
> Anyway, good for younfor sticking to it and when these two bond it will be the biggest satisfaction for you and we will all be so excited!!!!!




Awh thank you Lisa! Actually I have family in the business that did very well, they've been urging me to join them for a while, because they think I'll do very well! 

Honestly, I remember when I didn't work (nor did I have any other obligations, I had all day to spend with the animals) lol... Phoenix is also a chill rabbit, she's just territorial I guess. Part of it is luck and the other part is research. I would have done well if I could have picked her bond mate (I guess it's different in Lyndym's case :/) but the rescue wouldn't allow me to date them stating that it doesn't mean they will get along for sure. 

BTW had an amazing bonding session last night. I thought Phoenix was going to nip Hippo and so did he but instead I gave her a treat for "playing nice" and she started grooming him!!! Then when she realized he wasn't goign to groom her back, I have her a treat, pet them both then groomed him again!!  Then they hung out for a while longer and went back to their cages. I can see it progressing, I just need to make sure I stop any nipping if and when I do see it.


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Wow you are going to be a car saleswoman. I can see you doing that. I hope you make a lot of money! And good luck with the test!

That's great that your most recent date turned out good. When will you be doing the next bonding session?


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## Chrisdoc

Every time there´s positive news, I feel so happy with them....good bunnies. 

HOpe you pass the test and sell loads of cars...some people are just good at selling stuff, I´m more of a people person, a problem solver, been doing it for far too long now lol.


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## holtzchick

Ilovemyrabbit said:


> Wow you are going to be a car saleswoman. I can see you doing that. I hope you make a lot of money! And good luck with the test!
> 
> That's great that your most recent date turned out good. When will you be doing the next bonding session?




Thank you! I think I will do well since I like to work my butt off! 

I am actually doing bonding sessions a couple of times a day now.. very brief though only like 30 seconds to 1 minute!


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## holtzchick

Chrisdoc said:


> Every time there´s positive news, I feel so happy with them....good bunnies.
> 
> HOpe you pass the test and sell loads of cars...some people are just good at selling stuff, I´m more of a people person, a problem solver, been doing it for far too long now lol.



Thank you


----------



## holtzchick

Okay guys, just had another bonding session.... they did incredible!!! Phoenix DID NOT go to nip Hippo at all, instead he actually nipped at her, I think he just doesn't like sudden movements but I think he is establishing himself as top bun... Instead she went NUTS grooming him... that's it, nothing in return and while she was grooming him I gave them both treats, let them settle down for a moment, then put them back. She acts like he doesn't even phase her any more so I am going to take this is a VERY positive manner


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## Ilovemyrabbit

That's so great Michelle! It seems as if every date gets better and better. Can't wait to hear how the next session goes.


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## agnesthelion

Woohoo!!!!!!!!! Yay for grooming!!

Maybe they just struggled with figuring out who was top bun. I was told during bonding that females usually are but that's definitely not the case with my two. Let's hope Phoenix can be content with bowing down to her husbun


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## Azerane

That's great news about the last date. Sounds like it went really well. Keep positive as I'm sure it will only continue to improve


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## whitelop

Wow! That sounds really great and it sounds like they're making SO much progress! I'm so happy for you guys! 

You should take some pictures of them together!


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## holtzchick

Had them together again today, they're getting much more comfortable with each other and hopping around but as soon as the 2 minute mark started, Phoenix kind of got tense and wanted more from him after grooming him. Instead I slightly separated them, THEN I gave them treats. He didn't really react to her trying to nip him because I didn't allow her to fully nip  I actually have faith in these two buns now!

I would really love to take pictures BUT... when I'm so busy trying to supervise, I don't have the hand space! I have treats and ready hands in cases of emergencies!  Maybe once they get more acclimated with each other I shall take tons of pictures. By the way, they make such a cute couple because they're so drastically different in appearance. 

Hahah, they were both showing great displays of bunnitude today when they were tossing the container of hay around and their toys  It's good that they're starting to play even when they're separate. I'm not even rushing to get them together anymore, I will wait as long as it takes for them to be okay. I don't mind doing short dates multiple times a day  

Thank you so much everyone for the positive comments! It really helps to know there are people reading


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## Ilovemyrabbit

That's great Michelle! Hopefully the will get more accustomed to each other, and Phoneix wont try to nip him anymore.

Yes! When they get more accustomed to each other definitely take pics. I'd love to see them together. 

Keep up the good work Michelle, and soon you will have a bonded bunny pair .


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## whitelop

Hahaha. I just saw on Katie's blog about the Canadian stereotype of the "eh", but I thought it was more of an "aaye"? I don't know where that came from, I wonder if one guy happened to say it and then it stuck? Its like for us, with the "yous guys", well people actually say that, because my husband says it and his friend, they're both from Pennsylvania and apparently thats normal there. I only say it to make fun of them, but when he friend sees me after a while, he's like "hey, how yous doing?" I'm like, thats not even close to correct since I am only ONE person. And "y'all", well we do say y'all because I say it and lot of people do too! 
There is a joke that your Army is made up of Canadian Geese, which seems a little ridiculous if you ask me. They don't even have thumbs. 
I would also like to talk about those geese. We have a TON of them here, do they actually live in Canada? Because there are a lot of them here and they're breeding here so the offspring are "naturalized citizens", haha. Anyway, they're protected here because they're "borrowed" geese or whatever. Its like a $10,000 fine to kill them. Not that I'm killing them or anything, but you get in big trouble if you get caught killing them or even if you hit one with your car and don't call the police its like a hit-and-run-goose-assault-with-a-vehicle. They're special to us. haha. Actually I quite like them, except they're loud and a little mean.
Well, in Canada you guys have better health care than we do, lol. But I wouldn't come there if I were, say...running away from the draft here. I would go to Mexico. Its warmer and I have a better chance of growing crops rather than freezing my ass off. lmao. (but shhhh don't tell anyone I would go to Mexico! You're not supposed to dodge the draft) 
Sorry, just went on a crazy Canada thing. I don't talk about Canada much, I guess because its pretty neutral. And who really has a problem with Canada? No one, thats who. 

Oh I meant to ask you in the middle of that rambling on, if you are in a French speaking area of Canada? Do you speak French? I think that part of Canada is pretty cool, being in the mostly French speaking part and still speaking English too, being bi-lingual from birth I guess. Here, its English and then slang English because people like to chew up the English language and dribble it out in the form of...ebonics. Yes, I went there. I hate it. And now I'm definitely done before I get HIGHLY inappropriate. 

Do you know the Canadian anthem and do you like hockey? Because I personally LOVE hockey.


----------



## lyndym

Your updates keep getting more positive every time! So happy it's working out for you guys. I understand about not having hands for pictures, too, even though Doc and Rory are just sitting in their carrier doing nothing when I work with them, I want to take pictures! I took a couple when they were on the dryer, but Doc's big butt was in the way.

Morgan, your very Canadian-centric post made me giggle because of Luke. HE LOVES HOCKEY. I also really enjoy hockey, it's definitely an entertaining sport. Also, he totally says "Eh" even though he's been living in the US for about ten years. It'll randomly slip out. He likes to say it's much better than the American "HUHH??" For the most part, he has a pretty American accent, but if we're hanging out with his family, he'll sound more and more Canadian. He's actually from the same exact place Michelle is from! He had to take French in school, but I don't think Toronto is officially bi-lingual. We went to Europe a couple years ago and stopped in Paris for awhile, some of the people there did not appreciate his Canadian French!


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## Chrisdoc

Keep up the good work, sounds like you´re making progress slowly but surely. That´s great news.


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## holtzchick

whitelop said:


> Hahaha. I just saw on Katie's blog about the Canadian stereotype of the "eh", but I thought it was more of an "aaye"? I don't know where that came from, I wonder if one guy happened to say it and then it stuck? Its like for us, with the "yous guys", well people actually say that, because my husband says it and his friend, they're both from Pennsylvania and apparently thats normal there. I only say it to make fun of them, but when he friend sees me after a while, he's like "hey, how yous doing?" I'm like, thats not even close to correct since I am only ONE person. And "y'all", well we do say y'all because I say it and lot of people do too!
> *There is a joke that your Army is made up of Canadian Geese, which seems a little ridiculous if you ask me. They don't even have thumbs. .... *LMAOOOO!!!
> 
> 
> I would also like to talk about those geese. We have a TON of them here, do they actually live in Canada? Because there are a lot of them here and they're breeding here so the offspring are "naturalized citizens", haha. Anyway, they're protected here because they're "borrowed" geese or whatever. Its like a $10,000 fine to kill them. Not that I'm killing them or anything, but you get in big trouble if you get caught killing them or even if you hit one with your car and don't call the police its like a hit-and-run-goose-assault-with-a-vehicle. They're special to us. haha. Actually I quite like them, except they're loud and a little mean.
> 
> Geese do live in Canada, and I don't care much for them! They poop everywhere
> 
> 
> Well, in Canada you guys have better health care than we do, lol. But I wouldn't come there if I were, say...running away from the draft here. I would go to Mexico. Its warmer and I have a better chance of growing crops rather than freezing my ass off. lmao. (but shhhh don't tell anyone I would go to Mexico! You're not supposed to dodge the draft)
> Sorry, just went on a crazy Canada thing. I don't talk about Canada much, I guess because its pretty neutral. And who really has a problem with Canada? No one, thats who.
> 
> Oh I meant to ask you in the middle of that rambling on, if you are in a French speaking area of Canada? Do you speak French?
> 
> I do not live in a French speaking area of Canada, it's mostly just Quebec that speaks French and it's not that close to real French. Atleast in France they don't think so. My Luke speaks fluent French that he learned in Belgium and he makes fun of Canadian French which is also known as Quebecois.... All his snotty friends from Belgium all make fun of my accent  lol!
> 
> I think that part of Canada is pretty cool, being in the mostly French speaking part and still speaking English too, being bi-lingual from birth I guess. Here, its English and then slang English because people like to chew up the English language and dribble it out in the form of...ebonics. Yes, I went there. I hate it. And now I'm definitely done before I get HIGHLY inappropriate.
> 
> I would really have to agree with you on that one... I think the English language is destroyed and it's really a shame!!
> 
> Do you know the Canadian anthem and do you like hockey? Because I personally LOVE hockey.
> 
> I do know the Canadian anthem, it's required in schools and is sang every morning... Good Ol' Canadians EH?
> 
> Also, I do enjoy hockey, I used to enjoy it more until the Toronto Maple Leafs started to SUCK and then the lock out or whatever happened last year just kind of ruined it..
> 
> Anyways, hope this answers all of your Canada questions LOL feel free to ask any more


 ////


----------



## holtzchick

lyndym said:


> Your updates keep getting more positive every time! So happy it's working out for you guys. I understand about not having hands for pictures, too, even though Doc and Rory are just sitting in their carrier doing nothing when I work with them, I want to take pictures! I took a couple when they were on the dryer, but Doc's big butt was in the way.
> 
> Morgan, your very Canadian-centric post made me giggle because of Luke. HE LOVES HOCKEY. I also really enjoy hockey, it's definitely an entertaining sport. Also, he totally says "Eh" even though he's been living in the US for about ten years. It'll randomly slip out. He likes to say it's much better than the American "HUHH??" For the most part, he has a pretty American accent, but if we're hanging out with his family, he'll sound more and more Canadian. He's actually from the same exact place Michelle is from! He had to take French in school, but I don't think Toronto is officially bi-lingual. We went to Europe a couple years ago and stopped in Paris for awhile, some of the people there did not appreciate his Canadian French!




I agree! Last night they didn't have the best date but I think it's because Hipster was just grumpy!! hahah.. still makes me laugh that you're dating a Luke


----------



## holtzchick

Chrisdoc said:


> Keep up the good work, sounds like you´re making progress slowly but surely. That´s great news.



Thank You


----------



## whitelop

hahaha. Thanks Michelle! That does answer all my Canada questions. Part of my family is from Belgium, but I don't know any French other than like three basic words. lmao. So whats wrong with the Quebec version of French? Is it just the dialect or whatever its called when different areas speak a slightly different variation of the language, is that dialect or vernacular? God, I need to go back to school. haha. Is it like French slang? I didn't realize it was like rubbish french. haha. 
And I meant to put in the other post with all my canadian questions, was that most of the american stereotypes are pretty true, lmao. Its pretty bad. I'll be honest, this is probably not my first choice in countries to live, if it were up to me we would have moved to central or south america years ago, but my husband keeps saying no. **** him. 

I think I would like to visit Canada, in the summer time when its not too cold. Here's the strangest question yet...is it always gray there? Because in Pittsburgh and Ohio, its always gray. Its gray pretty much year round and its horrible. I don't know how people live there. I always have sunshine, even in the freezing cold, there is sun at my house. I guess why they call it "carolina blue skies". haha. I like learning about different places and weather is always a huge factor for me! I'm a wimp when it comes to cold and snow.

I also love hockey! My favorite part of it is when the fights break out and they throw their gloves off. The WAY they throw them off is the BEST. THING. EVER. Other than a properly executed P.I.T. maneuver. Anyway, the way they throw the gloves off is amazing and the way they mush each others faces into the glass is pretty great too. So much better than watching football. I hope my son plays hockey, then I won't have to shell out $4000 for braces! 

And now I'm super done. Apparently Canada takes my mind to the crazy place.


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## agnesthelion

Je peux parler Francais mais pas courement. j'etude francais pour cinq annees!

Haha, I just tried to say I can speak French but not fluently. I studied French for 5 years. Sadly, I have forgotten it all so that's probably not even a correct sentence and I can't remember spelling. But I did study French for 5 years and had a foreign exchange student stay with me so I learned quite a bit from her. It depresses me that I didnt use it so now I've lost it  how sad.
Canada is beautiful and awesome and I would love to visit. I envy your healthcare and such. There's alot America could learn from you guys!


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## Chrisdoc

I´ve a few friends who´ve been to Canada and they all loved it, once place I would love to visit. I love ice hockey as well, such a contact sport and you´re right, they get into some real fights and when gloves are off...OMG.

I did French for longer than you Lisa, 8 years but I can still ready pretty well and I had to talk quite a bit last year as I had quite a few french clients over and boy was it difficult trying to remember my schoolgirl French.


----------



## holtzchick

whitelop said:


> hahaha. Thanks Michelle! That does answer all my Canada questions. Part of my family is from Belgium, but I don't know any French other than like three basic words. lmao. So whats wrong with the Quebec version of French? Is it just the dialect or whatever its called when different areas speak a slightly different variation of the language, is that dialect or vernacular? God, I need to go back to school. haha. Is it like French slang? I didn't realize it was like rubbish french. haha.
> And I meant to put in the other post with all my canadian questions, was that most of the american stereotypes are pretty true, lmao. Its pretty bad. I'll be honest, this is probably not my first choice in countries to live, if it were up to me we would have moved to central or south america years ago, but my husband keeps saying no. **** him.
> 
> I think I would like to visit Canada, in the summer time when its not too cold. Here's the strangest question yet...is it always gray there? Because in Pittsburgh and Ohio, its always gray. Its gray pretty much year round and its horrible. I don't know how people live there. I always have sunshine, even in the freezing cold, there is sun at my house. I guess why they call it "carolina blue skies". haha. I like learning about different places and weather is always a huge factor for me! I'm a wimp when it comes to cold and snow.
> 
> I also love hockey! My favorite part of it is when the fights break out and they throw their gloves off. The WAY they throw them off is the BEST. THING. EVER. Other than a properly executed P.I.T. maneuver. Anyway, the way they throw the gloves off is amazing and the way they mush each others faces into the glass is pretty great too. So much better than watching football. I hope my son plays hockey, then I won't have to shell out $4000 for braces!
> 
> And now I'm super done. Apparently Canada takes my mind to the crazy place.




lol yeahh, crazy place... You sound alot like my co-worker. She loves her sports, it's all good though  

No the French in Quebec is spoken more through the nasal passage and people that can speak real French make fun of it by plugging their nose when they speak  

I agree, I told my boyfriend that we should move to Panama... Apparently according to a survey, the people in Panama are among the happiest in the world. He totally agreed but we're too scared to move the bunnies!


----------



## holtzchick

agnesthelion said:


> Je peux parler Francais mais pas courement. j'etude francais pour cinq annees!
> 
> Haha, I just tried to say I can speak French but not fluently. I studied French for 5 years. Sadly, I have forgotten it all so that's probably not even a correct sentence and I can't remember spelling. But I did study French for 5 years and had a foreign exchange student stay with me so I learned quite a bit from her. It depresses me that I didnt use it so now I've lost it  how sad.
> Canada is beautiful and awesome and I would love to visit. I envy your healthcare and such. There's alot America could learn from you guys!




Lisa your French is good written if you ask me, then again, IDK. 

A lot of places in Canada are gorgeous, I just don't find that Toronto is one of them. I would love to see the Rockies though!


----------



## holtzchick

lyndym said:


> Your updates keep getting more positive every time! So happy it's working out for you guys. I understand about not having hands for pictures, too, even though Doc and Rory are just sitting in their carrier doing nothing when I work with them, I want to take pictures! I took a couple when they were on the dryer, but Doc's big butt was in the way.
> 
> Morgan, your very Canadian-centric post made me giggle because of Luke. HE LOVES HOCKEY. I also really enjoy hockey, it's definitely an entertaining sport. Also, he totally says "Eh" even though he's been living in the US for about ten years. It'll randomly slip out. He likes to say it's much better than the American "HUHH??" For the most part, he has a pretty American accent, but if we're hanging out with his family, he'll sound more and more Canadian. He's actually from the same exact place Michelle is from! He had to take French in school, but I don't think Toronto is officially bi-lingual. We went to Europe a couple years ago and stopped in Paris for awhile, some of the people there did not appreciate his Canadian French!



Thanks  

Yeah you are right, Toronto is not bi-lingual. 

I feel like things were so positive however the last few dates I've been slightly more stressed and I think it's stressing them! I just noticed there is more attempt to nip from Hippogryff and then Phoenix is following suit, I don't allow them to, but if they're both trying to nip each other I just don't understand how they will find which one is dominant. 

I feel like both are just so freaking dominant and STUBBORN! Maybe it's because Hippo has been GRUMPY these past 2 days, I don't understand what his problem is but I think he needs to man up! 

BTW Lisa, you really confused me with your post on another thread. You said that you should at some point allow bunnies to nip/pull fur for them to work it out?! I'm so lost, everytime mine do this they really end up holding grudges and I really don't want to separate again, I'm in a great place right now, which is why I think I'm going to cut down the short dates to 1 a day and very very short. I don't even care anymore lol....


----------



## agnesthelion

BTW Lisa, you really confused me with your post on another thread. You said that you should at some point allow bunnies to nip/pull fur for them to work it out?!

^^^^oh no I don't think I said that,,,,? If I did find the post and I'll reread it and see what I meant, haha. . But thats not something i would say. What I do remember saying is to allow mounting to let them work it out. And even doing that it's about only allowing what you think your bunnies can tolerate. It's still about preventing fighting at all costs. Mounting is how they figure out dominance and if the human is always stopping the humping then it can hinder them figuring out who top bun is. But again, prevent fighting at all costs.


----------



## agnesthelion

I found what you were talking about and no I didn't say to allow nipping. It was mounting. And again I explained to prevent fighting just allow what you think your bunnies can tolerate. Here is what i said:::::::

Just another word of advice with the mounting. You will eventually want to let them mount. It sounds strange, I know, but they need to work it out between them. With constant human interference you could be delaying their bond as they still haven't figured out who is top bun.

Now, with that being said there is still a fine line here. You want to prevent fighting at all costs. So follow your gut as to how long they tolerate the humping. And don't let it go more than a few seconds. I think the article talks about this too.


So to clarify, nipping and mounting are two different thingsm IMO. The article I shared with you talks about allowing mounting but NOT anything about nipping.

I also think allowing mounting works with certain pairs too. If the mounting is always going to start a fight then it might not be to the point in their relationship where mounting can be allowed yet. I allowed it with my two only after I knew thry weren't going to fight and Agnes could tolerate a few seconds of mounting.

Hope I cleared up the confusion for you!


----------



## Chrisdoc

Michelle, buns are just sometimes so complicated and it´s difficult to know what they´re thinking. Yes, full out fighting should be avoided at all costs but sometimes mine niggle each other and then run off so I usually let them go with it unless I see them changing to fight mode. I´m going to post a video on mine later where they were both out ignoring each other and then they niggled but it didn´t go any further. I had to turn the video off to run and make sure they were OK. 

I think you know you bunnies so you´ll know the signs. You seem to be doing well now but it is frustrating when it takes so long but it will be worth it.


----------



## lyndym

Something from my thread that was stated was that I shouldn't have separated the buns after just a nip, that it's more important to make sure the nip doesn't turn into fighting. Maybe that is what you're thinking of and remembered it as someone saying it's okay to nip? 

The lady at my shelter said mounting is okay, too. I'd like to point out that she said to definitely correct them if they are mounting incorrectly, as mounting a rabbit's face (bahaha) can injure genitals, and the rabbits on the bottom can easily bite the tummy of the rabbit on top. During Doc and Aurora's first couple of dates at the shelter, Doc mounted Aurora and she was fine with it. He actually did it a lot, hahaha. (It was a long few months for him, apparently.) Anyway, he got it wrong a few times, so we'd just lift him off and turn him around. MAN, Aurora had absolutely no problem with him during those dates, what IS her deal??


----------



## holtzchick

agnesthelion said:


> I found what you were talking about and no I didn't say to allow nipping. It was mounting. And again I explained to prevent fighting just allow what you think your bunnies can tolerate. Here is what i said:::::::
> 
> Just another word of advice with the mounting. You will eventually want to let them mount. It sounds strange, I know, but they need to work it out between them. With constant human interference you could be delaying their bond as they still haven't figured out who is top bun.
> 
> Now, with that being said there is still a fine line here. You want to prevent fighting at all costs. So follow your gut as to how long they tolerate the humping. And don't let it go more than a few seconds. I think the article talks about this too.
> 
> 
> So to clarify, nipping and mounting are two different thingsm IMO. The article I shared with you talks about allowing mounting but NOT anything about nipping.
> 
> I also think allowing mounting works with certain pairs too. If the mounting is always going to start a fight then it might not be to the point in their relationship where mounting can be allowed yet. I allowed it with my two only after I knew thry weren't going to fight and Agnes could tolerate a few seconds of mounting.
> 
> Hope I cleared up the confusion for you!




Thank you that totally did clear it up.


----------



## holtzchick

Chrisdoc said:


> Michelle, buns are just sometimes so complicated and it´s difficult to know what they´re thinking. Yes, full out fighting should be avoided at all costs but sometimes mine niggle each other and then run off so I usually let them go with it unless I see them changing to fight mode. I´m going to post a video on mine later where they were both out ignoring each other and then they niggled but it didn´t go any further. I had to turn the video off to run and make sure they were OK.
> 
> I think you know you bunnies so you´ll know the signs. You seem to be doing well now but it is frustrating when it takes so long but it will be worth it.



Hahha, yeah I was super frustrated with them!


----------



## holtzchick

lyndym said:


> Something from my thread that was stated was that I shouldn't have separated the buns after just a nip, that it's more important to make sure the nip doesn't turn into fighting. Maybe that is what you're thinking of and remembered it as someone saying it's okay to nip?
> 
> The lady at my shelter said mounting is okay, too. I'd like to point out that she said to definitely correct them if they are mounting incorrectly, as mounting a rabbit's face (bahaha) can injure genitals, and the rabbits on the bottom can easily bite the tummy of the rabbit on top. During Doc and Aurora's first couple of dates at the shelter, Doc mounted Aurora and she was fine with it. He actually did it a lot, hahaha. (It was a long few months for him, apparently.) Anyway, he got it wrong a few times, so we'd just lift him off and turn him around. MAN, Aurora had absolutely no problem with him during those dates, what IS her deal??




Yeah some bunnies do tolerate the nipping and fur pulling but mine aren't those bunnies... Hopefully you are making some progress iwth your buns, I will head over to your blog after to check


----------



## holtzchick

Hmm.. so my gut instinct told me to slow it down with the buns since Hippo was super agitated with the last few dates and I stopped dating them for a few days to see if it would help... It COMPLETELY helped... right now, they're lying next to each other just chillaxing! It's so nice to see... I think I will try one short 30 second date later today and if they do well, I will do one more tomorrow. Perhaps multiple dates a day are just too quick for them. As long as they're getting along somewhat okay, I don't mind slowing it down.


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## Ilovemyrabbit

That is so good that it helped. Update soon after they date! I can't wait to hear What happens! keeping my fingers crossed for a very successful bonding session! 

Good Luck!


----------



## Kzbun

Let us know what happens right after the date!! I'm glad that slowing down seemed to help! Hopefully all will go well!


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## Chrisdoc

Michelle, you know you buns best and I think the slow and careful route is the best for them. I don´t think it matters how long it takes as long as the result is the right on. I´m still rooting for you and know that these two will get there in the end. I was looking back at the beginning of your blog and had forgotten how pretty Phoenix is, she´s a lovely bunny, you must post some more pics as I´d forgotten.


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## agnesthelion

Yay!!! Yes michelle our gut instincts are usually right. I think about your two now and again and the *only* other different method you could try with them would be the wear them down method. Literally arm yourself with gloves and a spray bottle and don't give up til they give in. But the jury is out for me still on if there could be longtime success with that?? I dunno.

But anyway if not I definitely think slow and steady wins the race for your two. It's been quite a journey and I'm sure when these two are bonded we will all do a cheer!!


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## holtzchick

Haha, I think after these two are bonded I DEFINITELY deserve to throw a party and drink a lot to take off the stress from the last few months  

BTW I'm going to take a video today of their bonding session so y'all can chime in


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Yes Michelle, you should throw a party!

That's great that your taking a video! Now we can see it in action! I hope the date goes well, and I'm looking forward to seeing the video.


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## Katielovesleo3

:cry4:Stress? Yall are scaring me! I don't want to go through stresss


----------



## Chrisdoc

Michelle, yes party party when it´s all over. And yes, a video would be great as one of us might see something you haven´t especially as nearly all of us have gone through the process .

Katie, yes bonding bunnies can sometimes be stressful especially when they´re not doing what you want them to do but it isn´t always, just depends on the buns.


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## Katielovesleo3

Yes the video will be so helpful to peoples like MEEE! 
Awww, I don't like stress. I wish I had a bigger house so that I had *neutral territory* to keep them in.


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Yes, the video will be helpful to anyone trying to bond their buns.


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## agnesthelion

Katielovesleo3 said:


> :cry4:Stress? Yall are scaring me! I don't want to go through stresss



I hate to be the bearer of bad news but even when bonding goes smoothly like mine it's still stressful!! Hahaha

Katie, you have a long ways to go til the stressful part. You still have to get your girl spayed and let her heal before they can even date. As far as neutral territory to keep them in, you don't need neutral territory to keep them in, just to date in in the beginning. Like a bathroom, tub, closet, even trunk of a car. 

@Michelle....yes video will totally help!! I'll watch for it!


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## lyndym

Can't wait to see the video! 

Oh Katie, it is indeed stressful. Even the smallest positive things can be so rewarding, though. I'm feeling a little set back in my own bonding process right now after a particularly disappointing and violent session with the rabbits last night, but I've got some new ideas up my sleeve that I'm now excited to try out! You have lots of time to research and look at all our very different experiences as well, so hopefully you will be super prepared after the spay!


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## Chrisdoc

The results far outweigh the stress in the end so it will be all worth it just to see two bunnies happily living together or even three lol. That is the biggest reward. But Lyndy´s right, it gives you loads of time to do your research and be totally prepared when you decide to do it.


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## holtzchick

Okay, I just finished their date (I know I said last night, but meh) and it didn't go as well as I expected but I ended it on a good note with grooming. As soon as I stopped recording, I literally picked Phoenix up and out of there. I don't know why Hippo has been trying to show his dominance lately. They didn't nip each other like this right away before, or atleast they didn't try. The good news is that as long as I have treats, Phoenix will leave him alone... 

Ignore my annoying voice with the bunnies, you know just trying to talk them through it. lol Somewhere mid-video you can hear a very loud crinkling noise lmao Phoenix grabbed the treat box and was trying to rip it open!! You can also see Hippogryff digging at the floor close to the beginning! He's such a grump! 

Part of me thinks that dating them in that washroom is a bad idea simply because they can corner each other behind the sink! They've already tried to do so but I stop them every time and I think this adds unnecessary stress to the dates.... Should I date them in my upstairs washroom since it's bigger? 

Anyways here is the video, enjoy 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QS_Ytwbg8k&feature=youtu.be


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Aww, they look so cute on video! There's something about seeing them on video that is so much cuter than seeing them on pics. I love Hippo's coloring and he looks so soft.

Maybe you should date them in the upstairs washroom, bigger would probably be better.


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## whitelop

AWWWW! They are so cute! 
I think that she wants to be bonded to him! He just seems like a grump. But there are people who have grumpy buns with non-grumpy buns and they work out. I think taking it slow-slow is the right way to go! 

What kind of treats are you feeding them? Phoenix is like Ellie, it doesn't matter whats going on, its not going to stop her from eating! LOL.


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## holtzchick

Ilovemyrabbit said:


> Aww, they look so cute on video! There's something about seeing them on video that is so much cuter than seeing them on pics. I love Hippo's coloring and he looks so soft.
> 
> Maybe you should date them in the upstairs washroom, bigger would probably be better.



lol I think I will try them upstairs tomorrow


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## holtzchick

whitelop said:


> AWWWW! They are so cute!
> I think that she wants to be bonded to him! He just seems like a grump. But there are people who have grumpy buns with non-grumpy buns and they work out. I think taking it slow-slow is the right way to go!
> 
> What kind of treats are you feeding them? Phoenix is like Ellie, it doesn't matter whats going on, its not going to stop her from eating! LOL.



lmao.... she's like super nippy and he's just grumpy so it's weird. They both want to bond with another bun, you can tell but both want it on their terms. They're so stubborn!!!

I'm feeding them Martins Little Friends Banana Muffins biscuits. They don't have them in the states but they're comparable to oxbows vegetable biscuits just banana flavored.


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## Chrisdoc

I was so surprised by how good they were and they are so much cuter when you can see them moving. I just love Hippogryff´s face and Phoenix looks to have such thick fur, they are both just adorable. 

I didn´t get really bad vibes from this and there wasn´t any serious nose butting or real nipping so I saw it as being quite positive. And Phoenix at the end looked as though she really wanted to groom Hippo although he didn´t look that bothered but looks like you´re moving in the right direction.

Maybe move them into a bigger space where you can still keep your eye on them.


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## agnesthelion

Michelle!!! This video is awesome!!!!

I have to say I'm a bit surprised. I guess I expected something negative but this was awesome!!

Here's what I noticed:

You are the BOMB with your buns. You are intuitive on what their actions are, your voice is perfect in soothing them. You offered treats at the right time, intervened at the right time. Perfection!!

At the end when Phoenix just started grooming Hippo....it was fantastic that you kinda kept your hand there. Hippo had his head lowered the entire time. So in his mind he was like aaaah, I'm getting groomed by mommy AND Phoenix. That would have been an awesome time to rub applesauce or mushy or banana on Hippos head.

Michelle I just feel so good about this. Seriously, their date looked so similar to many of mine. The little nip attempts are very minimal and I really think they are starting to bond they just both have thismlast bit of stubbornness to get over but I have the confidence innthe world it will happen.

Kudos to you!!! I thunk you are ROs bonding guru!!!!


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## agnesthelion

Grrrr iPad typos. I'm gonna run this thing over with my car one day.....


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## Chrisdoc

I agree Lisa, i thought it was a really good date and I didn´t see anything negative between the two buns and it finished on a high with Phoenix grooming the hipster...I suppose I was waiting for a spat which didn´t come...hey that was great, I am so impressed and I am sure that pretty soon, we´ll see these two together.


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## holtzchick

agnesthelion said:


> Michelle!!! This video is awesome!!!!
> 
> I have to say I'm a bit surprised. I guess I expected something negative but this was awesome!!
> 
> Here's what I noticed:
> 
> You are the BOMB with your buns. You are intuitive on what their actions are, your voice is perfect in soothing them. You offered treats at the right time, intervened at the right time. Perfection!!
> 
> At the end when Phoenix just started grooming Hippo....it was fantastic that you kinda kept your hand there. Hippo had his head lowered the entire time. So in his mind he was like aaaah, I'm getting groomed by mommy AND Phoenix. That would have been an awesome time to rub applesauce or mushy or banana on Hippos head.
> 
> Michelle I just feel so good about this. Seriously, their date looked so similar to many of mine. The little nip attempts are very minimal and I really think they are starting to bond they just both have thismlast bit of stubbornness to get over but I have the confidence innthe world it will happen.
> 
> Kudos to you!!! I thunk you are ROs bonding guru!!!!



Thank you so much, this comment makes me feel so good. Yeah I feel like it is this last bit of stubborn to get over and I don't mind dating them like this for months as long as they don't resort to any naughty anti-bunny behaviors! 

I guess the video looks better than it feels. I could really feel the tension but thats just me in my panic mode lol... I've been keeping open about it and I'm really happy that they're progressing in the right direction. 

I posted this on my rescues group page and everyone was also saying they look great even though I just thought it could have been better. 

Perhaps I need to be happier with what is at hand than concentrating on the finished result! 

Both buns seem much happier now, and they're both all flopped out so perhaps 1 date a day for now is good!


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## holtzchick

Chrisdoc said:


> I agree Lisa, i thought it was a really good date and I didn´t see anything negative between the two buns and it finished on a high with Phoenix grooming the hipster...I suppose I was waiting for a spat which didn´t come...hey that was great, I am so impressed and I am sure that pretty soon, we´ll see these two together.




Hhaha, thank you  

It's so funny to see them together because they're both really different in appearance! They are cute though! I just wish poor nexus got some lovin back!


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## lyndym

What a great video, thanks for posting! Looks like they are definitely coming along as well. Phoenix seems to be a lot like Doc in that she's a little more ready to get this show on the road! It'd be great to see a video of how they interact during separate play time. Doc and Rory are keeping me on my toes so far, I'm up and down every two seconds making sure they don't nip each other!

Side note, but are you Polish? Just noticed your last name on your YouTube account. Luke is Polish!


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## Troller

Good video and great supervision on your part. I think progress is definitely being made and bonding is taking place. Thanks for sharing that. I'm curious, what were you using as a treat? And I assume you were using a hand held camera? Yeah I wish I had one of those so I can video journal my upcoming bunny dates as a learning tool for myself. Did you find it hard filming and refereeing at the same time?


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## ashleigheperry

Watching this blog - I read the whole thing! Can't wait to hear more about these two goofs. c:


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## holtzchick

lyndym said:


> What a great video, thanks for posting! Looks like they are definitely coming along as well. Phoenix seems to be a lot like Doc in that she's a little more ready to get this show on the road! It'd be great to see a video of how they interact during separate play time. Doc and Rory are keeping me on my toes so far, I'm up and down every two seconds making sure they don't nip each other!
> 
> Side note, but are you Polish? Just noticed your last name on your YouTube account. Luke is Polish!



It's not horrible anymore but yeah my two used to keep me on my toes too!! Phoenix still tries to nip when he's out I'd say 80% of the time! 
Hippo is not normally a nipper and he was ready to get the bond going a while ago, he just doesn't trust her because she goes to nip him a lot! 

And side note, yes I am Polish, and my Luke is Polish too  
Go figure, I never meant to date a Polish guy, it just happened. 
Yet another similarity!


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## holtzchick

Troller said:


> Good video and great supervision on your part. I think progress is definitely being made and bonding is taking place. Thanks for sharing that. I'm curious, what were you using as a treat? And I assume you were using a hand held camera? Yeah I wish I had one of those so I can video journal my upcoming bunny dates as a learning tool for myself. Did you find it hard filming and refereeing at the same time?



No problem  I was using banana muffin biscuits, they're basically just timothy hay and pellets and banana so you can definitely give up to 15 a day according to the package. I sometimes use one or two tiny pieces of freeze dried strawberry though and Hippo is more accepting of those. Only problem is unless I'm dishing out the treats like no tomorrow, Phoenix gets nippy! 

Hmmm, I was using a digital camera but yes, holding it as opposed to having it on a stand. You can find a cheap one on Kijiji, I bought mine for like $60 at Future Shop years ago and I don't care too much about the quality, it does the job. 

I find that I'm more comfortable with their reactions with each other now so I didn't find it too bad to referee the date but I wouldn't recommend using it on day one, just incase you need to jump in and intervene quickly. In my opinion the filming makes it much more stressful and I don't think I will do so until they hit another milestone in their bonding relationship.


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## holtzchick

ashleigheperry said:


> Watching this blog - I read the whole thing! Can't wait to hear more about these two goofs. c:



Wow, you read the whole thing lol, I feel like that's a lot of boring reading  

Thank you


----------



## Azerane

The video looks really positive  I agree in thinking that a larger space would help, it would give you more room if needed, and it will also give them a little more space so that one can avoid the nip of another if they want. Looks promising!


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## holtzchick

You know what, I felt so inclined to add an update! I think one date a day is working well for them so far. After all the positive feedback, I was more confident in allowing them space around each other today instead of herding them with my arms and not only did we have Phoenix grooming Hippogryff, instead of nipping him, she snuggled cheek to cheek with him for 30 seconds while I pet them! They were also MUCH more playful (I threw in some paper towel rolls) and enjoyed some hay together!

I also zip tied their tents to one side of the cage because I noticed Phoenix doesn't like to lay next to him and will actually lay on the opposite side and he will seek her out. Now she can't lay on the opposite side because the tent is there. 

So I just received my marks from that test I was supposed to take last week for my automotive certification course and I got 92%. Today just keeps getting better!!


----------



## PaGal

Congratulations on the positives with the buns as well as the outcome of your test! I have been reading right along with the others but haven't said anything up till now as I felt I had nothing to say since I haven't and am not bonding buns.

I love my guy tremendously and would love another and everyone getting new buns makes that wish stronger but then I read those of you that are bonding and think no way!


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## holtzchick

PaGal said:


> Congratulations on the positives with the buns as well as the outcome of your test! I have been reading right along with the others but haven't said anything up till now as I felt I had nothing to say since I haven't and am not bonding buns.
> 
> I love my guy tremendously and would love another and everyone getting new buns makes that wish stronger but then I read those of you that are bonding and think no way!



LOL.. honestly, I think that in the end it's worth it, but if it were up to me ever again, I would just adopt a pair. I just loved Phoenix too much and decided she needs love in her life after what she'd been through outside!


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Yes, the video did look really good! It didn't look like there was any nipping. It was so cute at the end of the video where Phoenix started grooming Hippogryph.

And congrats on the test!


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## whitelop

YAY! Congratulations on passing the test! Thats so exciting! 
It sounds like they're making such good progress. They're so nice looking together.


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## qtipthebun

I loved the video...you know how I feel about Hippo's marking's (I just wanna scoop up his grumpy little self and bunnap him!), and I couldn't believe how kissy Phoenix was! She was like "okay, your hand, Hippo's head, whatever. As long as I get to lick someone." Too cute!!


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## Chrisdoc

Michelle, great that you´ve had another positive date, I have a really good feeling about these two after seeing your video and loved seeing them both "in the flesh" so to speak. I love photos but it´s so different seeing them move and interact, i loved it. 

Congratulations on passing the test with flying colours.


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## holtzchick

Thank you guys on the congratulations  

I was actually my rescues forum, and someone suggested that it may not be bad for them to nip once in a while because it could be a "hey get out of my way", or "I just want to check you out!" but in the past I had bad experiences with that. I thought their body language was pretty good though, so I allowed Phoenix just ONE nip... ahhahhaha Hippogryff nipped her back so hard and grunted at her and she was like OKAY you're the boss and just started excessively grooming his ears!! I was surprised. She was on top of him practically but she didn't dare nip his side again, she only licked it! 

I think they are slowly sorting out which one is the dominant one because when they went back to their cages, they were laying together literally side by side, cheek to cheek  

One date a day seems to be working wonders for them! I just thought I'd post this first thing!


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## Ilovemyrabbit

They are definitely making progress. That is great that they were laying next to each other cheek by cheek, and its also good that she started grooming him. hopefully it won't be much longer until they are officially bonded.


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## whitelop

holtzchick said:


> Thank you guys on the congratulations
> 
> I was actually my rescues forum, and someone suggested that it may not be bad for them to nip once in a while because it could be a "hey get out of my way", or "I just want to check you out!" but in the past I had bad experiences with that. I thought their body language was pretty good though, so I allowed Phoenix just ONE nip... ahhahhaha Hippogryff nipped her back so hard and grunted at her and she was like OKAY you're the boss and just started excessively grooming his ears!! I was surprised. She was on top of him practically but she didn't dare nip his side again, she only licked it!
> 
> I think they are slowly sorting out which one is the dominant one because when they went back to their cages, they were laying together literally side by side, cheek to cheek
> 
> One date a day seems to be working wonders for them! I just thought I'd post this first thing!



I think that sounds wonderful! I think its great that she is grooming him now and he's like "yeah b*tch you clean my ears!" Thats how I think rabbits talk to each other sometimes. I think Ellie calls me a B most of the time. hahaha. They're like cats and a little crazy in the head. 

But seriously though, it sounds like there is a lot of progress happening! YAY! :muscleman:

Sorry, that emoticon makes me laugh really hard!


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## JBun

That sounds like a breakthrough  It looks like she, hopefully, has decided that he is the grumpier bun, and it's not worth getting into a tussle with him. Yay!!! You've been soooo patient with these rascals. It's nice to see that rabbits that seem like mortal enemies in the beginning, can overcome their issues, and actually begin to like each other.


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## Troller

I'm so glad a breakthrough was made and progress achieved. Bodning is such an intensive thing it seems. I'll start finding out tomorrow I guess but its good to read about other peoples experiences.


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## lyndym

Huzzah!! Sounds like things are slowly getting better each day! And yeah, definitely sounds like they are finally sorting out the dominance issues. I laughed when you said nips were exchanged and then Phoenix immediately began grooming Hippo. What a needy grump he is. 

So you and Luke (and Luke, haha) are Polish! Must be a lot of Polish people in Canada, hahaha.


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## MILU

Awww Phoenix is such a sweetheart and I'm sure she'll get along pretty well with her new friend! Hippogryff is such an epic name! I love it! 
And I love your plants too, they look great!


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## agnesthelion

I'm so glad for this breakthrough! 

From that video you posted I could tell they were getting there and that kinda nip really isn't a nip in the bad sense of the word. It's more communication. And I could tell they were to the point where things would start falling into place.

I am so happy! You have done SO good with these two. Pat yourself on the back


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## Chrisdoc

I think things are very positive and she is recognising that he´s a bit of a grump and allowing for that. I think you´re definitely going in the right direction and they obviously enjoy each other....more news please.


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## holtzchick

Today has been alright. My two have been off the hook with dates for the last few days, just running around like crazy but with that being said, both have had less out time so Hippogryff destroyed ALL of the floor in his cage and just ripped up pieces of foam everywhere! He is such a grump I swear! 

Today their date was longer than usual, I'd say around 10 minutes but he started to get nippy with her which she didn't mind too too much and they were cuddling for a bit like he tucked his face under her tummy and flopped out and she just sort of sat there while I stroked her. She's really just waiting for him to groom her back, poor girl. I think I'm going to set her old pen up upstairs so that they can have space to run around but without me having to worry about the back of the sink. Only thing is my upstairs is carpeted but it is still neutral territory... what do you think? should I do a few dates on the carpet so they're more comfortable? I know Hippo is such a grump that if he's slightly out of his comfort zone he will grunt and get angry!


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## JjGoesBounce

K, I didn't think it was possible to love another rabbit even more than Phoenix (I love that name) but Hippogryff!?!
Harry Potter is no joke, MY LIFE. I am speechless. Hippogryff. Hippogryff.
:yes::inlove:


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## JBun

Just so you don't get too discouraged by the Hipster's grumpy behavior. I have a bonded pair, and my female is super grumpy. She'll give Flopsy little nips and lunge at him, but they both like each other. Flopsy has just learned to hop away from her and avoid her when she is being a big grump. They don't snuggle ALL the time, but they do snuggle together most of the time, and groom each other, though suprisingly, she does the most grooming. So bonding can work out, having a grumpy rabbit, if the other rabbit learns how to deal with it.

Edited to add: Maybe it's a red eyed bunny thing, cause she is a REW holland lop, so doesn't have the best eysight, and gets nervous about things easily.


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## holtzchick

lol, thank you! Yeah, could very well be a REW thing! He also hates when I pat my hand down in a specific spot as if to say come here, he will lunge at me. I wonder if his previous owner ever freaked him out in any way. They are both most definitely making huge progress though and learning to ignore each other as if nothing were happening. 

I was just wondering if dating them in a carpeted pen would be better so he's not so grumpy about it? The plus side would be that they wouldn't be able to corner each other. They seem to be very comfortable in each others presence now


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## Ilovemyrabbit

I'm glad the date went well. Hippo is such a grump I can't believe he tore up the foam in his pen, naughty bunny.

And I think you might as well try dating them in the carpeted pen. After all, you have nothing to lose. I think you should try and see how it works out.


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## agnesthelion

You know Archie never grooms Agnes anymore. He did at first but he never does. She grooms him all the time. He's definitely alpha. So hippo may not ever groom Phoenix and she'll eventually need to accept that. So I think these two are nearly there it's just they both still want to be top bun a little in the sense of grooming. 

It's okay they had an off day. I think to myself, humans have off days too, ya know? These two mare so close I can taste it! I just can't wait for them to officially just give in. You definitely have two headstrong buns on your hands


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## Troller

Looks like we both suffered through off days and stubborn buns. It's a day to day marathon though isn't it  You are making progress though, don't doubt it. Carpeted date area makes me cringe, but aim considering it myself and who knows it may make our grumps more relaxed in the end.


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## Chrisdoc

I know that eventually they will get there. 

About grooming, Bandy never groomed the other two but they´d still groom him but suddenly about a month ago, he´s started to groom them so maybe one day, they´ll start to groom, I think sometimes with time and as with any relationship things can change.

You will get there in the end, I just know it. Everything comes to he/she who waits.


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## holtzchick

I'm sorry but it sounds like everyone mis-interpreted.... they didn't have any off days, I gave them some days off as in breaks from their dates!!  

Actually, the two are quite "chum-y", I caught them laying side by side when I came in looking very comfortable and I don't know who settled that but tonights the night I think they will both have a carpeted date. 

It is definitely a day to day battle, I've gotten so used to the bad though, any progress for me feels amazing, even when it's something small!


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## agnesthelion

Oh gosh Michelle I did misunderstand! Haha by off day I thought you meant a bad day! But I get it now. 
Sooooo glad things are still positive!
Btw...when did you adopt Hippo. I was curious how long exaactly you've been at this?


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## Troller

Follow the leader then I guess when it comes to replying. How spoiled are our bunnies that we give the time off from the oh so stressful job of getting along with each other so that they can have company when they eat, drink and play for free. Sheesh...


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## holtzchick

lol... that's too funny!! 

I adopted Hippo December 5th, I believe. So it's been a few months. Not too shabby if you ask me. 

Yes, the bunnies have trained their slaves oh so well


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Yes I thought you meant they were having a bad day. I'm glad that isn't the case .

Wow, December 5th it seems like you've had him for much longer than that.


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## holtzchick

It does seem like I've had him longer doesn't it?! 

Great news! Today I took them upstairs in Phoenix's old x-pen and the date went PHENOMENAL! I thought they were both over all more comfortable on the carpeting and that there was more space without any cornering going on! They both tried to nip each other once towards the end of it, but over all, much of it was them ignoring each other or Phoenix grooming Hippogryff and she has obviously learned that everytime she grooms him she gets a treat  

Needless to say, I've found what works for them, and they're really going in a great direction! I swear those two are plotting against me now.... I caught them flopped together side by side in their cages today when I got home! They're getting closer each and every day and that is so monumental for me especially considering I only started really seriously dating them halfway in March! I'm so happy with where they're at!


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Yay! I'm glad the date went well. Looks like Phoenix's old pen is/was the best place to date them.

They are definitely going in the right direction. I can't wait to see their wedding photo. And once its all over and your buns are finally bonded you can go throw a party, or take a vacation on the beach and relax, lol.


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## agnesthelion

Gosh Michelle things finally just seem like they have clicked for these two and boy do you deserve it! Honestly it does seem longer than dec 5th but that's still a looooong time 

As I've said I think you just have two smart and headstrong buns which is a good thing except for bunny bonding, haha  but you are getting there! Hooray!


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## whitelop

YAYY! It sounds like they're making such great progress! 

I also can't wait for their wedding picture! I can't wait to see them together all the time and I'm sure you're excited about only having one enclosure and letting them out together instead of separately. 
Have you thought about what their new home will look like?


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## Chrisdoc

Yippee...that is such good news, I think we´re all waiting for the big day...yes, bet you will be glad to have only one house and have them shacked up together.


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## holtzchick

lol thank you all but let's not get too excited just yet! I have not started planning their new enclosure. BUT I have news!!! 

I don't know if this is progression or regression but I'm going to assume progression.... They were fine tonight but I made the date longer and by longer I mean A LOT longer.... for the first time EVER Hippogryff mounted Phoenix lol I don't think she was expecting it and so at first she seemed really surprised and didn't do anything so I let it continue and I thought maybe they would sort out their dominance issue once and for all BUT after Phoenix mounted Hippo!!!! 

So here we go from two bunnies always nipping each other to not a single nip but a mount?!! Hippogryff was very aggressive and dominant about it, you could tell he was trying to show off. I'm actually very surprised that he's neutered because he's just so darn grumpy! Anyways, it didn't end in a fight although it did start some circling halfway through but as long as I stopped it, they went right back to being friends, AKA Phoenix grooming Hippo and them wanting treats. I obviously ended it on a good note and when I put them into their enclosures, they just flopped over and now they're laying beside each other. 

I think they're moving ahead it's just a matter of time until they figure out who dominant bunny is, but is this how I should handle it... ? They seem fine and unmoved by the whole date.


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## agnesthelion

I definitely think that is progress! Mounting is common even in the most closely bonded pairs it can occur every once in awhile. I think it's "better" than nipping in the sense that it's less aggressive/ I want to fight you but more I just wanna be top bun.

I think you handled it perfectly. Prevent it from going to a fight but let them see if they will work through things.

More positive things again!!!!!! I don't want to jinx you but I think this could be it. They are on their way! Yay!!!


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## Troller

Sounds like you handled it very well. It was bound to happen and it seemed like they managed it well. I would think its progress though its the type that we caretakers don't care to see. But it's all part of the socialization to a happy bun couple. Keep us posted.


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## holtzchick

Hmmm.. I've known this but since they never mounted I guess I forgot, apparently it doesn't only sort out dominance but in lagomorph lingo, it also means "I want you"... Now I truly know they both want to bond with each other. I may give some short dates again and not allow the mounting for some time. They are starting to love one another :bunnieskiss


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Yes, I agree with the others it seems like you handled everything well. And mounting does seem better than nipping.

I can't wait, they are probably going to be officially bonded soon. Keep the progress coming!


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## whitelop

Awww! They LOVE each other! How sweet is that. They're such special buns and I can't wait for them to be together. 

Hahaha. I can just imagine Phoenix mounting Hippo, I bet it was quite funny!


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## holtzchick

whitelop said:


> Awww! They LOVE each other! How sweet is that. They're such special buns and I can't wait for them to be together.
> 
> Hahaha. I can just imagine Phoenix mounting Hippo, I bet it was quite funny!



LOL... Yeah, I found it hilarious... she just had this shocked look on her face even as she mounted him!!!


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## holtzchick

Last night's date was okay in the sense that they got along well, whenever one of them tried to nip the other one for whatever reason is when it got aggressive but I stopped any nipping. I think it's just got to do with the whole dominance thing. They will eventually get over it and as long as I'm petting them both, they're loving it. 

It's really funny because Phoenix will go to nip him and he'll freak out on her so she'll incessantly groom his ears or something like she's going to give him bald patches. I think she really loves him but not enough to be the submissive bun! They're both SO stubborn. I'm hoping with time, Hippogryff will realize that he's bat crazy about her and groom his lady back  The last couple minutes of the date were excellent. They got into kind of a bad circle nip tussle that I stopped so I calmly put both cheek to cheek and stroked them. They both got VERY relaxed and into it, then Phoenix groomed him a few times and they got treats! 

I honestly don't think it makes a difference on whether they're on carpet or tile, I mean they're certainly more comfortable on the carpet and less on edge too, so if theres anyone ever debating about it, carpet might be a good option for your buns too


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## agnesthelion

Yes thry both sound stubborn! As far as grooming, I noticed with my two it takes awhile to learn how to groom. I remember Archie groomed Aggie first and he was SO sloppy. I was like "boy, you need some help in the foreplay dept" ((like all men, hahahahah)) anyway as their relationship progressed Aggie was the groomer and now it looks natural like she knows how to do it, there is nothing forced between them, KWIM? So I think you will see things comrade along in that area with time.
I'm really loving all then date updates! Keep em coming!


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## Chrisdoc

I love reading about these two...I have just started humming " A Fine Romance"..it just popped into my head reading abouth Hippo mounting Phoenix and the grroming and the cheek to cheek...I am just loving it. 

I cannot wait until this ends in them shacking up together lmao.


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## lyndym

Just catching up! Sounds like things are going great! Mounting is also good, though it's funny when non-rabbit people see them doing it and they think it's the most hilarious thing ever. (Same as how they think rabbits eating poop and humans obsessing over rabbit poop is nasty. ) I don't know where I mentioned this on RO or if you might already know, but be sure they they always mount in the correct direction. The lady at the shelter when I got Aurora said to always correct the top bun if they're mounting the face of the other since the bottom bun could easily bite the tummy of the top bun.

Hippo sounds a little like Rory in the skittish department. Sometimes the most random noises startle her.. this afternoon she was out and I was reading my Kindle on the couch and flipping the magnetic fastener on its case. She thumped! It barely makes a sound, but she was not pleased about it at all. Also my roommate came into the living room and was crumpling a piece of paper, and Rory flipped out and ran to hide. I guess it could've been my roommate entering, but she was standing there for a bit and when she crumpled the paper, Aurora booked it. And yet I can vacuum or run the blender no problem. I wonder a lot about her background, too, and what happened to make her so skittish. I think this is the root of our bonding problem - Doc is into it because he's basically only known life with me, but who knows what Aurora's experienced. It's a little sad, but I'm glad she has a better home now.


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## Chrisdoc

Wow, that is so true about noises. I noticed this week that some noises really freak them out. I was folding a ikea bag, one of those big blue ones and they all were racing about to hide. I was just so surprised. They don´t like the noises the mobile phone makes either, especially the pip when I get messages, they sit with their ears up. And they hated me coughing when I had the flu a few weeks ago, must be scary.


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Ash doesn't even mind noises he is such a chill bunny. He doesn't care if you drop things on him and he doesn't care about much noises, sometimes when I run the blender he acts a bit frightened he moves away from the noise, but normally he doesn't mind noise.


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## whitelop

I have to catch up on your blog, but I know you're Polish. Do you know anything about stuffed cabbage rolls? I had some this weekend and OMG they were so good. Some Polish ladies made them and it was the best use of cabbage ever. They had some kind of meat in them, I think it was like a corned beef hash or beef, then some rice I think, then some sort of sauce. I don't know if you know, but they were good and you're Polish and they were Polish. So since you're Polish, I expect you to know all Polish food stuffs out there.  LOL


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## holtzchick

whitelop said:


> I have to catch up on your blog, but I know you're Polish. Do you know anything about stuffed cabbage rolls? I had some this weekend and OMG they were so good. Some Polish ladies made them and it was the best use of cabbage ever. They had some kind of meat in them, I think it was like a corned beef hash or beef, then some rice I think, then some sort of sauce. I don't know if you know, but they were good and you're Polish and they were Polish. So since you're Polish, I expect you to know all Polish food stuffs out there.  LOL



LOL yes Morgan, I know a lot about cabbage rolls! 
I'm going to assume that they made good cabbage rolls because if you go to the store and buy them they taste like crap! Normally my family makes them with pork and traditionally they're eaten with a tomato based sauce. 
I myself can't remember the last time I made them but basically you have to peel the cabbage leaves one at a time and steam them for like 30 minutes until they soften. Boil rice... on a pan saute veggies like celery, carrots etc. and season with like a boullion cube or chicken broth... add to rice. Then you would get ground meat and raw mix it together with the rice/veggie mixture, the meat to rice ratio is probably 70/30 meat/rice. 
Take the cabbage leaves and one at a time, add a tbsp full of the meat mix and roll them. In a pot, layer cabbage leaves at the bottom, followed by a layer of cabbage rolls and layer with cabbage leaves again... follow this step until the pot is full... also some people in Poland add bacon on top of the layers of cabbage leaves to make the rolls more flavorful, the bacon should also be raw. 
Once the pot is full, cover with water and keep pot covered until the meat is cooked on a low simmer. 

Voila. By the way, not sure if I mentioned this but I actually lived in Poland for a year... The food is so tasty but soooo fatty!! haha. Yeah, I know a lot about it. 

Also, sorry for the late reply, I've been avoiding writing on my blog lol, just one of those weeks!


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## holtzchick

Okay, I've been a little bad with keeping the dates regular.. Recently I've just been a little frustrated with their nipping after the mounting date. 
It's the first date they've had in like 4 days but I will say that I've noticed them regularly laying next to each other in their cages. 

Hippo is still such a grump! 

Their date tonight went pretty good I'd say! They lasted 15 min and I didn't want to push my luck so I left it at that. For the first time ever, I gave them a salad during their date which they took to very well... Phoenix didn't scarf it all down which I thought she would and Hippogryff wasn't aggressive about it at all  There was a few attempts to nip but nothing serious. 

At one point I was petting them face to face and Phoenix was nuts with grooming Hippogryffs ear and then she actually tried to mount his face! Needless to say, he got pretty pissed at her and nipped her and then she stopped, it wasn't a full on mount, she just tried to hoist herself up lol. 
They're doing well though, still nippy through the bars of their cages which I know is a no-no but part of me believes that it somewhat helps settle their battle for dominance since I find after they have a nip war or grunt, they will lay down next to each other. 

I don't need anyone to tell me the obvious, these two are so WEIRD. lol.


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## whitelop

Thanks for the recipe help Michelle! Yes, I had REAL ones! haha. When I was in Pittsburgh, we were at a party run by Polish woman and they cook all the food and they made them, they were SO good. I wanted to get into the roll and roll around with the meat. I was in love! haha. Then it hit me on the way home that you were Polish and probably knew something about them and then I did remember you saying that you lived there at one point and felt for sure you knew something about them. I can not wait to make these, too bad my husband doesn't like cabbage. But I told him that eating these rolls may make him like cabbage. BUTTTT I'm not Polish, so I may not be able to make them the right way! 

I'm sorry your buns are nippy! I hope they can settle it and just become bonded already! Jeez, I just want to knock their heads together and be like "get over it!" Then they would be bonded. haha. In a perfect world...


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## Troller

Hippo sounds like my Conan, always nipping. Nipping itself might not be all bad, it's mostly and expression if aggression (out of my way) but sometimes it's also affection and want for attention. Glad to hear the date went smoothly if not exactly well: these things are such the marathons.


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## holtzchick

Hippo isn't always nipping, it's Phoenix! He has learned NOT to trust her so he nips her back now. No Hippo is just super grumpy and aggressive! Even the way he picks his toys up, he like raises them and boxes at the same time lol as I said, Im surprised hes neutered!!! I've learned to love his grumpiness though.... They are marathons! I don't mind though, since last night they seem to be behaving each other! 

Morgan, if you go to make cabbage rolls go to google.pl and type in "przepis na golabki" and then click translate... it will give you a polish link that way you know they're going to be the real deal!! 
Please knock their heads together for me! Sometimes, they're a little much but they're so much better than they were that I'm happy


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## whitelop

I thought thats what they were called! 

I'm glad they seemed to be getting along last night. I wonder why Hippo is so grumpy all the time? He sounds like Ellie with the bringing stuff up in the air and boxing it. She does that with her toys and if I put something in front of her like a paper towel she will box the hell out of it! haha. She's so crazy. Truth be told, I think they're all a little touched in the head.


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## lyndym

You lived in Poland for a year?? That's so neat. Were you studying abroad, or just traveling? I just mentioned this on Chris' blog, but Luke and I had a month-long Europe trip and stopped in Warsaw and Krakow for a week. We met up with his dad, stepmom, brother, and grandma who was born in Poland. They did have delicious food there, though like you mentioned, it was faaaatty! I'm pretty sure Luke ate pierogi every day. Also once we went into a shop to buy some pierogi for breakfast (he really likes pierogi) and the lady spoke zero English. Luke was trying to get meat pierogi, so he pretended to be a cow. I think we ended up with an assortment of different kinds, hahaha.

There was also this really awkward situation while we were there.. So Luke's grandma hadn't been back to Warsaw since moving to Paris during the war when she was maybe 6. The reason we all went to Poland was because she recently received a letter from a cousin she hadn't heard from since being a child. She said she told her we were coming, and we should go visit her apartment. Of course, we show up, and they had no idea we were coming. But they were really excited, as much as I could guess because everyone just spoke Polish, and we were invited in. We were there for maybe an hour, Luke's family and the grandma's elderly cousin and her daughter. Those of us that just spoke English felt really awkward, and the elderly cousin clearly kept kind of forgetting why we were there. Then somehow the cousin's daughter ended up tagging along with us after we left, I guess to show us some stuff, but lots of Polish was getting thrown around and most of us were completely lost!


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## holtzchick

lyndym said:


> You lived in Poland for a year?? That's so neat. Were you studying abroad, or just traveling? I just mentioned this on Chris' blog, but Luke and I had a month-long Europe trip and stopped in Warsaw and Krakow for a week. We met up with his dad, stepmom, brother, and grandma who was born in Poland. They did have delicious food there, though like you mentioned, it was faaaatty! I'm pretty sure Luke ate pierogi every day. Also once we went into a shop to buy some pierogi for breakfast (he really likes pierogi) and the lady spoke zero English. Luke was trying to get meat pierogi, so he pretended to be a cow. I think we ended up with an assortment of different kinds, hahaha.
> 
> There was also this really awkward situation while we were there.. So Luke's grandma hadn't been back to Warsaw since moving to Paris during the war when she was maybe 6. The reason we all went to Poland was because she recently received a letter from a cousin she hadn't heard from since being a child. She said she told her we were coming, and we should go visit her apartment. Of course, we show up, and they had no idea we were coming. But they were really excited, as much as I could guess because everyone just spoke Polish, and we were invited in. We were there for maybe an hour, Luke's family and the grandma's elderly cousin and her daughter. Those of us that just spoke English felt really awkward, and the elderly cousin clearly kept kind of forgetting why we were there. Then somehow the cousin's daughter ended up tagging along with us after we left, I guess to show us some stuff, but lots of Polish was getting thrown around and most of us were completely lost!



Yes, I did live in Poland, most of my family is there and my dad has lived there for the last 10 years or so, he just moved back a few days ago. 
I speak fluent Polish so that's not an issue for me but my dad lived in Warsaw and I also lived with him in Krakow before. It's the most beautiful city I've ever seen!!! Luke and I have a plan, if we can, we retire in Krakow.... I don't know how much of this plan he's agreed to but I've set it out for us LOL.... Luke's family also lives in Poland but his parents are now living in Sweden (hahaha, his mother HATES living there). They're really lived all over the map though, I believe they also lived in Germany and Belgium and well they lived here for a while too. They all seem to be very keen on Belgium so who knows if they'll move back. 

The food is super fatty! I actually GAINED 30 lbs!!!! I'm a HUGE emotional eater and since I was isolated from my life back here, I took comfort in all the delicious Polish food and desserts! I hate desserts but the ones there are less sweet and more flavorful! I couldn't believe how much weight I had gained though, I was so depressed that when I came back I shed it ALL off within 7 months and now I'm in the best shape I've ever been in  

I used to live 2 streets from the centre market square in Krakow, there was everything there, but I was anti-social at the time. :/ Go figure.

That's such a sweet story that she found her cousin! That's so cool! Luke's grandfather spent 10 years or something in hiding in his friends basement while the war was going on... not sure why, he's not Jewish but I think he just wanted to avoid the war altogether. Speaking of the war though, I actually booked a tour of all 3 concentration camps, it was 6 hours and it was the most depressing thing I've ever seen in my life! Obviously I wasn't allowed any recording or pictures but my god if you saw these conditions. The sad part was there were these display cases where they kept the human hair that was cut off of the people, then another one where they kept all the shoes and clothing, then another one where their luggage was kept and it was so sad that these people thhought they were going on vacation and had happy slogans and dates written on their luggage! The other really sad part was going down the hallways and seeing all the framed pictures of people with their serial numbers (this system was invented by non other than IBM, one of the worlds largest corporations, yuuuup), their names, birthplace, date of birth as well as I believe finger prints. There were THOUSANDS of these lining the hallways... it was disgusting! 

If anyone ever has a chance to tour any of the concentration camps I highly suggest it, it was such an awakening. I'd learned all about the war but it wasn't really a reality until I went on this tour!


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## whitelop

I would love to tour the camps! I have always been so fascinated with WW2. Its so sad and terrible. One of the things that bothered me the most about the people getting off the trains was them pulling their gold teeth out. Ugh. That had to be the worst pain, mouth pain is the worst. But I guess they did go to the gas showers so hopefully they didn't feel the pain for long. 

I did read this really sad story that I'm going to share and don't hate me! There was an officer who was in charge of checking all the bodies in the chamber to make sure they had died from the gas. He found a girl in the bottom of the pile who had managed to survive because of a puddle in the floor. He pulled her out and the other officers came and put a blanket around her. They gave her soup and water, they gave checked her pulse and when they realized that she wasn't going to die on her own and she was recovering from the gas, they made the officer that found her...kill her. The officer protested and said that they had just saved her, why did they have to do it? Why couldn't they make her work or something, find something for her to do? They said no, she was weakened by the gas and she had to die. So they made him do it. How f-ing terrible. That story scarred me for life. 

And now that I've shared such a terrible story, I'm going to get off your blog Michelle, before I'm compelled to share something else terrible! haha.


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## holtzchick

Yeah they did some pretty bad things, I've heard stories like that. When you actually go into where the incinerators were, you could see people scratched their names into the iron.... it was really really sad


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## whitelop

Thats really sad! x


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## Chrisdoc

I´m sure visiting these camps changes you for life. It´s just so difficult to imagine the scale of the things that happened here. I´ve only seen footage and survivors talking of their experiences and that´s pretty harrowing.


----------



## holtzchick

Last nights bunny date was a little dissappointing. I mean there's nothing new really going on with them the same old lunge/nip move and Hippogryff seems to be more aggressive towards Phoenix since the whole mounti date fiasco.... I'm going to try maybe putting a clear divider on the bars ofthecage so she can't nip him at all and i hope that helps!! That and i need to date them more regularly


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## Chrisdoc

It is sometimes a slow process Michelle so don´t lose heart. They´ll have good and bad days and you can see they want to be together but can´t quite put all their differences aside. Mine are sometimes like that. They can be looking really happy together and then they´ll have a little nip but now I don´t actually have to intervene. If I shout to them, they actually stop and walk away from each other...these buns are so smart... a bit like young kids who get over excited and play a bit too hard. 

Still difficult to read sometimes and very wearing but perservere.


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## sweet_buns

Love your blog, your story of how you came to find Phoenix but lose Peter was very touching. My nose is blocked now because i couldn't stop crying. >.< I laughed when i read about Phoenix humping Hippo's head, reminded me of my darling little Jean-luc who passed and how he used to do that to Pip who used to be his bunk mate. Bunnies are funny little things.


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## holtzchick

Haha Awh thank you. Yes these bunnies are like children!! 

So I actually was too lazy to set up their play pen upstairs to date them so I decided to date them in the downstairs washroom again. Perhaps I should keep at it because it was a 100% improvement! Not a single nip (although I cant say they didn't try ) and Phoenix was 100% more affectionate. They lasted 15 min and it was amazing! At one point they were snuggling cheek to cheek for a few minutes but I think it was accidental, since im pretty sure Phoenix wanted to pull fur but I stopped her 

Also not sure if anyone saw my thread about the flooring driving me crazy but since I couldn't find a cheap stall mat I've found a temporary solution at least until I start working again, I took all the bitten edges of the pieces and moved them to the edges of the x pen and replaced the mats that couldn't be salvaged with new ones. Then I took clear duct tape and taped all the seams  I got the idea because I saw a picture of someone's rabbit and i saw the same mats and they had them taped. Plus I also made them more toys. I took a brown bag and stuffed it with hay and put treats in there. Hopefully this will keep them occupied!


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## lyndym

First of all, you hate desserts?? Hahaha. Come to think of it, I don't remember eating many desserts in Poland. Mostly lots of pierogi and some potato pancake with this beef goulash on top, which Luke also had to have daily for some reason. One day I was just like, I can't do it anymore, I need a salad. That's so crazy that you gained 30 pounds!! I can eat emotionally too, or just when I'm BORED, so I rarely buy snacky foods for my apartment. I remember thinking I'd lose some weight on the trip because of all the walking involved with traveling, but I basically stayed the same as all the food and drink canceled out my walking.  I guess staying the same is way better than gaining though, so I didn't complain!

That's so awesome that you and Luke have family there and throughout Europe! All of my relatives on both sides are in the US, and mostly in California! Luke's family is all in Canada except for his immediate family and his brother's family, but no one is in Europe anymore. He doesn't speak Polish, but his dad does. Did you learn from your family as a child? I always wish I spoke Japanese - I'm half Japanese-American from my mom's side, but my grandparents didn't teach their kids how to speak Japanese.

We actually took a tour of Auschwitz while we were in Krakow. Luke's grandma didn't come, she had lost a childhood friend to that camp. Exactly as you said, it was one of the most harrowing and emotional things I've ever witnessed, but I would definitely recommend it to anyone who is every traveling there. We've all seen movies like Schindler's List and been exposed to the general idea, but actually being there is something else. I remember all the displays you mentioned too, I couldn't believe the things like the braids they cut off people, and another display case filled with clothing and shoes from all the women and children they immediately killed upon arrival really got to me - I had to step back into the hall. And the display cases were HUGE, not like a normal museum, but along the entire wall of the room and way deep in the back. I remember us all piling into the van afterward and not even really knowing what to feel.

Anyway, back to buns, it sounds like your dates are going well! Do you have any "next steps" in mind? I haven't gotten to neutral area dates yet, we're still in "observing each other's play time" mode. I guess I'm waiting for all signs of hostility to stop, though they've definitely improved. I think we've definitely plateaued - the first week or so of their new set up and being close during play time had Rory going completely nuts all the time, and now she's been pretty much the same for the past few weeks. I'm not sure if this means I should try something new, or still wait for her to be as neutral as he is towards her?


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## holtzchick

Sorry, I will answer back to your posts I have read them but I have a super early day tomorrow and need to get rest. Just thought I'd vent here about our bunny date tonight. 

I had Phoenix and Hippogryff in the washroom for a date. All went somewhat well except Phoenix was hopping around Hipster and I guess he's used to her nipping him and so he just like lunged at her and nipped her VERY hard. I feel so bad for her! All she does is lick him and groom him excessively to the point where his head is all wet. She just wants some love back. They snuggled for about 10 minutes with Phoenix constantly grooming Hippo and she wanted SO bad for him to groom her back. I hoped to god for at least the tiniest nibble on her nose, but nothing, all he did was lower and lower his head. I actually SAW the spark in her eyes disappear as she closed them and just gave in knowing that she can expect nothing in return... Poor little angel, I love her so much and snuggled her so much after the date! I felt terrible for her! 

I don't know I hope one day he will reciprocate in the slightest! At least their date lasted about 20 minutes, I didn't want to push it but both were almost sleeping they were so calm I didn't want to rouse them! 

I actually took some great pictures of Hippogryff this morning and I love them he looks amazing (but he's EVIL!!) I will most definitely post them tomorrow after my first day of work!!!  

I'm sooooo nervous about my first day at the dealership.


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## whitelop

Good luck at the dealership! YAY! Hopefully soon, you'll be selling a huge number of cars and rolling around in those commissions! haha. 

I hope that Hippo comes around and starts to love her more. Its so sad and my heart aches for Phoenix. Poor little girl! It sounds like its getting better, but Hippo is such a grump. Maybe one day he'll just groom her and it will be great! haha.


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Yes, good luck at the dealership! 

I wish Hippogryph would just groom back! I feel so bad for Phoenix all she wants is some love. Hopefully Hippogryph will groom her one day.

Can't wait to see the pictures!


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## Chrisdoc

Michelle, poor little Phoenix, she just wants some love from him. Don´t despair, Houdini and Snowy were always grooming Bandy and he never groomed back even though they would lower their heads. Then one day, I suddenly spotted him grooming Houdini and I was so amazed so they can suddenly start when you least expect it and now he´s a little expert and gives equally. I can´t wait for his first groom, it will come some day.


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## Troller

Well if only one of my rabbits would groom the other one it would be a breakthrough. So be great full of that much. Sadly though there are some relationships that are always one sided. Still, sound like all is progressing well.


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## Chrisdoc

I am convinced that, in the end, they will groom. Bandy took like 8-9 months before he would groom the others but now he´s doing it all the time so it does happen. Don´t know if they don´t know how or they just don´t want to at first for some reason but it happened with him so it could happen with yours.


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## sweet_buns

Awww poor thing. Things sound like they're going well though despite the fact that Phoenix isn't getting the licks returned. I bet he will return the favour one day. =)


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## lyndym

Aw, Michelle! I know exactly how you feel, and I'm sure Doc can relate to Phoenix. It really is heartbreaking to see one bun really ready for some love and the other being stubborn. And then it's hard to not think the stubborn bun is just being a meanie! Yours have come so far at this point, though, I'm sure they'll continue and Hippo will give in. Maybe Hippo's just hit a plateau in his own personal process for now. Just think of how far he's come with Phoenix, stay positive!

Best of luck at the dealership! I'm sure you will have a fabulous first day!


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## holtzchick

You know what, I feel crazy posting this, but I worked SUCH long hours at the dealership all week... I don't think Hippo is just in the right home with us. I feel horrible saying that but I'm thinking about his well being. His energy level does not fit into this hectic household, Phoenix is an everyone's bun sort of girl, she does not get stressed at all with noises and change. In fact I think she loves change. Poor Hipster does not get all the lovin that he needs all the time because my cleaning stresses him out, Phoenix's nipping stresses him out also, he's always grunting at everything because he's afraid. I am trying my best to make him feel comfortable. Something I have realized about Phoenix's nipping is that she does not nip him because she's being aggressive, that's just the way she communicates. She has to nip everything, me, skin, clothes, pillows, carpet, table, wall... she needs to have her mouth on everything at all times for a quick taste, and he takes it in a negative way. 
Hippogryff is a very pleasant rabbit in the right environment. He needs a calm home where he can be perhaps free run and MAYBE with a submissive rabbit. I feel bad for Phoenix too because she's not a spiteful rabbit, she's the sweetest little angel and she is SO high energy she needs to be free run. This experience has really taught me that she does not care to be with another bunny, infact, she LOVES my company and is constantly following me and running around. If Cesar Milan has taught me anything (and I don't believe this applies to dogs only) the first thing you need to look for when bringing a friend into your home is their energy level and assess that with your own energy level, and everyone elses. 

This is very frustrating and upsetting to me, but realistically I'm only going to start working longer days if I want to succeed and I'm not going to have the time to bond two dominant bunnies. Atleast this has made me realize that I am no longer looking for a second bun, just one free run crazy rabbit in this home. I've already emailed the adoptions co-ordinator and let her know how I'm feeling, I just hope she can help me out with this without judging me. Believe me, I would love to have two adorable rabbits but they certainly wouldn't get all the roaming time they deserve and I don't want a constantly caged rabbit!


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Yes, don't feel bad about yourself Michelle. You have tried for so long now and and if Hippo isn't happy than you are most likely right. 

I'm so sorry it didn't work out I know it must be hard. I'm sure the adoption counselors will help him find a great home, and he is a handsome bunny so hopefully he will be adopted out to a loving home. Please don't feel bad about yourself, you have done all you can for this little guy but at the moment it isn't practical to have him in the house.

Yes, how is the dealership going? Everything sounds great so far!


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## Troller

I'm sorry as well it didn't work out. Good thing that your truly assessing the situation, not making a hasty decision and putting ego to the side. I believe I have two dominant bunnies as well and it can be very tough for a long stretch of time to try to blunt these little hard heads. Plus, going into it you knew what could happen and made the right contingencies for it. So don't be too hard on yourself.


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## Chrisdoc

Michelle, you´ve done everything you possibly could and if you really feel he´s not as happy as you know he could be with you then maybe it is best to find him a home where he can be happier and maybe he´d be better on his own as well. You have done absolutely everything but you know Phoenix and you know buns well enough now to see the signs. Don´t beat yourself up, you´re a great bunny mom and you´re putting them first. The dealership is a great opportunity for you so you have to grab it with both hands. 

Hopefully, the adoption people will be able to find him a lovely home where he´ll be really happy and less grumpy.


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## holtzchick

Awh thank you all for being so supportive! The dealership is going wonderfully but I work a lot of extra hours I did not anticipate hence me feeling bad. I only started real sales on Saturday and I'm already building a clientele. 

On another note I'm disappointed that whenever I write a concerned message to the adoptions co-ordinator she does not respond to me, ever, as if she does not want to deal with the issue. I don't want to be forceful but it's not something I had anticipated would happen either. Technically I could keep both rabbits but their bonding would be on STANDBY for a long long time, who knows if I will ever bond them this way. 

Although one thing that occurred to me is that perhaps if no one gets back to me by this Thursday (I have the day off, or so I think) I will try the wear them down method and I could do that once a week.... I guess we will see, I just don't think it's fair to the bunnies at all.


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## whitelop

Michelle, you've done so much and its unfortunate but you know whats best. 
I'm glad the dealership is going so well!

I know this is probably going to sound stupid because I really still don't know much about bonding. But couldn't you just open their doors and let them out at the same time and let them be with each other always and sort of resolve their bickers themselves? I mean, its not like they don't know each other, they live next to each other every day. I know Hippo is grumpy, but could that work? I mean, break up any fight fight they have, but let them nip and work it out themselves? There have to be people who just put rabbits together and it works out, without the whole bonding process. 
Thats just my opinion though and it might not work or be a good idea! haha. 

I hope everything works out.


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## JjGoesBounce

I really hope everything works out


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## holtzchick

whitelop said:


> Michelle, you've done so much and its unfortunate but you know whats best.
> I'm glad the dealership is going so well!
> 
> I know this is probably going to sound stupid because I really still don't know much about bonding. But couldn't you just open their doors and let them out at the same time and let them be with each other always and sort of resolve their bickers themselves? I mean, its not like they don't know each other, they live next to each other every day. I know Hippo is grumpy, but could that work? I mean, break up any fight fight they have, but let them nip and work it out themselves? There have to be people who just put rabbits together and it works out, without the whole bonding process.
> Thats just my opinion though and it might not work or be a good idea! haha.
> 
> I hope everything works out.



Awh Morgan thanks for the thought. I've tried to allow them to sort it out amongst themselves before. The problem is as soon as one nips the other they start circling and fighting within 10 seconds. It's bad. 

Actually, the adoptions cordinator just wrote me back earlier today and she didn't realize what I was saying. I still feel horrible and I'm seriously gonna miss this grumpy bunny but I need to give them more attention and unfortunately I only have time to focus my attention on the little bunny that stole my heart from the moment I laid eyes on her....  I hate dilemmas!


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## Chrisdoc

Michelle, it is a tough one but you really have to think of you all as a whole and if you really feel, deep down, that he´s not happy and it´s not working then if they can find a good home for him, it may be better for you all. It is sad as you´ve come to know him and care for him but their bonding process isn´t an easy fix and I can tell you, it doesn´t always work just letting them out to get on with it, you can get some nasty bites and unhappy buns.

Feel good whatever you do and enjoy your new opportunity, sounds like the dealership is going well and you need to put all your energy into that at the moment.


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## whitelop

Michelle! How is everything going? I was thinking about you last night, about how we hadn't heard anything from you. I hope everything is going well.


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Yes, how is everything going. I've been thinking about you lately. I hope everythings okay. ray:


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## Chrisdoc

Me too, we´ve probably all been thinking about you and your tough decision. Bet you´re really busy too with the dealership, hope that´s going good as well.


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## Katielovesleo3

Me three, how is everything?


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## holtzchick

Hi everyone!!! I really do appreciate all the messages and posts I had received from everyone!! 

I think I really needed that break to just come to terms with my decision because at the time it was so nerve wracking!! 
I've been VERY busy (doesn't even describe it) at work and so when I came home to my bunnies fighting it was SO frustrating and hard to see.

I still have Hippo here, he's waiting on a foster home, it may take a while. 
Other than that, I'm really happy to be back on and I've missed this site and everyone on it! It seems I just feel foolish for not writing and for not keeping up to date with everyone when they've been nothing but considerate! I am also sorry to everyone whom it took me so long to reply to (this email is my old email, I haven't been receiving the updates). 

Looking forward to catching up with everyone and posting some new pictures! My two are completely separated, one being upstairs and one being down stairs. Phoenix is molting and she's got a skirt situation going on and it is adorable! I love her to pieces!! 

Anyways, I am SO glad to have come back to the site and hope you all will forgive me for not writing!!


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## whitelop

Of course we forgive you! Life gets busy and gets hard and sometimes you have to take a step back! We all get it. 
You did the best you could and are still doing the best you can! 

Glad to see you're back though! :hearts:


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## Chrisdoc

Great to see you back Michelle, we´ve missed seeing your buns and you on here. Glad to see the dealership is going well and that the two buns are doing Ok although separately. I suppose even with all the will in the world, it´s not going to happen, it´s a shame but that´s life. Mine are back to being buddies so some things do work out in life. 

Hope to see more of you on here again, just good to have you back :jumpforjoy:


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## holtzchick

Okay so time for some photos! 

Since I moved phoenix's pen upstairs, I switched it up a little bit, she's still not free range because if she goes downstairs and for some reason she decides that she wants to hop over the baby gate separating them, she's screwed. 

Oh she loves it up here, she likes it because it's literally infront of my bed. I get scared sometimes though because she's got really bad balance so when she periscopes against the stair posts, and she falls back, she can definitely fall through and down my stairs...  She scared me yesterday and it happened and she was like half hanging off... only her back feet were hanging onto the post. Thank god I don't leave her unsupervised, I need to bunny proof my stairs. 

I also put a little carrier into her pen and she LOVES sleeping in it. It's soooooo cute!!!

Awh ****, my photobucket is acting up and I need to get going to work but I will post pictures and video's later.


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## Tauntz

How about some plywood or coroplast put in front of the stair posts to help keep her from falling between the posts & down the stairs? Or even some hardware cloth? I'm sure you will think of the perfect solution to keep her safe & you from worrying.


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## Ilovemyrabbit

I missed this post since I wasn't on yesterday! Of course we forgive you! You were making a hard decision and needed a good brake. I'm so happy to see you on again!!! 

Good to hear the buns are doing good! 

Sorry about Phoenix and the stairs, that must have been really scary!


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## Troller

Good to hear things are going well for you and the rabbits are still fiesty but cute.


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## holtzchick

FINALLY got my photobucket running. 

Now here are the pictures I wanted to add previously.

As I mentioned Phoenix loves to sleep in her carrier. She looks so cute, reminds me of a donkey  

[URL=http://s1157.photobucket.com/user/holtzchick/media/IMG_0200_zpsd323fa22.jpg.html]

 [/URL]

And of course the other night my boyfriend left us home alone... I woke up super early and naturally we watched the sunset together!! 

[URL=http://s1157.photobucket.com/user/holtzchick/media/IMG_0232_zpsd538befc.jpg.html]


[/URL]
Angelcakes  

[URL=http://s1157.photobucket.com/user/holtzchick/media/IMG_0242_zps5b4de72a.jpg.html]



Posing for the camera..

[URL=http://s1157.photobucket.com/user/holtzchick/media/IMG_0241_zpscaca4612.jpg.html]

[/URL]

Then she had enough....

[URL=http://s1157.photobucket.com/user/holtzchick/media/IMG_0248_zps7b1c142c.jpg.html]

[/URL]

You can actually see her skirt she has from her molt. She looks so funny!! 

Since I had just recently purchased a new laptop battery, I left the box and receipt for her to play with... Not much going on in the video but she's so cute and if you watch until the end, you can see her beaner tongue!!! 

[URL=http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p591/holtzchick/IMG_0249_zpsd64d978b.mp4]

[/URL]


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## Chrisdoc

Michelle, she is just adorable with her little skirt and love the video. I always love seeing the buns in movement and she´s got such a cute little face and I never realised she has such big eyes.


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## holtzchick

Chrisdoc said:


> Michelle, she is just adorable with her little skirt and love the video. I always love seeing the buns in movement and she´s got such a cute little face and I never realised she has such big eyes.



Yuuup. She's my little angel and if you look closely she's got these big dark eyelashes that she always bats around too. 

I so wish I had the time to bond her with another bun, it's such a shame... Maybe she'd get along with something else like a small dog, or cat? I don't know if I want to chance that but my boyfriend has been bugging me for a while. He's home a lot but he won't bond bunnies, he's scared to touch them and incase they fight....


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## holtzchick

Phoenix has really gotten into the hang of hanging out with me on the bed, short increments at a time mind you probably 10 min or so but its growing on me, reminds me of Peter Cartier :-( 

He used to lay at the foot of my bed while I did all of my forum searching... 

Anyways, here are some pictures of her today all snuggled into my duvet cover... She's trying to return my grooming favors by licking my hand.














One ear down one up..










Something outside startled her... here you can really see those big brown eyes


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## Ilovemyrabbit

She is so cute! I love her coloring!  She's so sweet! Ash looks like the last picture when he hears a noise from far off. I can't play the video because my internet is slower than usual but I'm sure its adorable!


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## Chrisdoc

I just love here, that last picture is gorgeous, she´s got such an expressive face and love those eyes.

She seems really happy up there with you and she has you to groom. I´m glad my boys have each other when I´m not there and they do enjoy being together now. Bonding is not always easy as we both know but I would love to see her with a little friend.


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## whitelop

She is such a pretty girl! I wouldn't trust Ellie on bed at all. haha.


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## Ilovemyrabbit

No kidding Morgan! LOL, I wouldn't either! Ash thinks that the bed is his litter box and poops and pees on it. The peeing is what mostly bugs me. He only pees on the bed and in his litter box.


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## holtzchick

Phoenix drove me NUTS this morning!! She was so loud chewing on the bars of her pen this morning!! Like geeze, I was trying to get a decent nights sleep since I got home at 11:30 from work last night! (I finished at 9 but other problems at the dealership!) She's like a little energizer bunny! Ever since I let her out, she's running back and forth in the hall and up and down the stairs LOL... and she's spastic too! She just jumps up on the bed and she was like PET ME!! so I pet her then she just runs off the bed lol... doesn't know what she wants! 

Kind of a good start to the week, yesterday I sold another car, going to sell one today hhopefully, it's been a little slower for me since I had been sick earlier in the month. Last weekend, I purposely booked my Saturday off so I could go for a day canoeing trip with my boyfriend... the night of, I got so excited I went to the store and went on a shopping spree of things for the trip!! THEN just as we were going to go to bed on Friday evening, I got an email blast that our trip got cancelled and I would be refunded.... I was so mad! Go figure that's just my luck! No time to relax... I did however insist on taking saturday off and instead bought some new pieces of furniture (yay for furniture!!). 

Anyways, have a great day guys!!


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## whitelop

It sucks you didn't get to go canoeing, I bet that would have been super fun! 

I feel like Ellie is like that too, she's just a spaz. She picks up her food bowl and slams it into her water bowl and makes all sorts of racket until I let her out. Then she acts like a little weirdo. 

I also love new furniture! Who doesn't though? Don't even get me started on rugs. 

I hope you sell lots of cars!


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## holtzchick

Thought I would update that Hippo has FINALLY found a foster home!!!


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## Chrisdoc

Good for him, hope he´ll be really happy there but I´m sad to see him go and I´m sure you´ll miss him.


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## Ilovemyrabbit

Good to know that Hippo has found a foster home! I'm sad to see him go as well, and I'm sure you'll miss him. But good to know he has a good home!  

I hope you sell lots of cars!


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## holtzchick

Well that it, Hipster has gone to his new foster home, and Phoenix and I are left alone at home. We're going to miss him here, it's certainly different. 

I have the day off work, thought I would take the time to actually bunny proof the house and get Phoenix free range, about time. Just stuck on how I'm going to get her walking on hardwood (I guess a rug is a great solution lol) as she currently spends all er time upstairs where the carpet is. I really would prefer her walking around downstairs. 

Will update


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## Chrisdoc

Hope Hippo will be happy in his new home. Try putting some non slip rugs down,that´s what I´ve got on my marble floors so they don´t slip as much and they soon get used to it. 

I´m sure she´ll love having her run of the place, as long as she´s happy, that´s all that matters.


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## Ilovemyrabbit

I hope Hippo will like his new home! Ash slips on the tiles as well but he doesn't seem to mind he just keeps going! I'm sure Phoenix will love having free range of the place! That's a bunnies dream!


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## holtzchick

Hmmm... another long weekend... another long day... 

I did something I probably shouldn't have... and I'm not going to admit to anything just yet.... perhaps I will post later this evening. :devil


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## whitelop

Oh god. What happened?


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## Chrisdoc

I´m intrigued...do tell :yes:


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## Troller

Chrisdoc said:


> I´m intrigued...do tell :yes:



Word for word I was going to type the same thing (no smiley though) so I'll just co-opt.


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## Ilovemyrabbit

I just got back from...well not being on in a while! What did you do?!


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## Chrisdoc

You have to confess, I can´t sleep at night leaseplease:


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## holtzchick

Lol you guys are crazy I honestly cannot remember what I did I was probably drinking. I've had a crazy work week and all I can say is that Im sooooooo greatful that I have this little angel looking after me (or vice versa )

Phoenix has done exceptionally well being free range


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## Troller

Boo!!! All the intrigue, the suspense, and you can't remember. I'd want my money back if I actually paid to live vicariously. Glad to heard Phoenix is happy and free ranged.


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## holtzchick

She is absolutely loving it and I think it's just bringing us closer... She now follows me EVERYWHERE and likes to flop down beside me with her laying as flat as she possibly can for head scratches  

She certainly is one of a kind and I think she loves being an only bunny. I can't believe that the same scared hungry awkward little bunny is so full of bunnitude and so relaxed a year later.


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## Ilovemyrabbit

I bet she loves being free ranged! It would be hard to free range Ash here. Glad Phoenix is happy!


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## Chrisdoc

Great to hear she´s doing so well and is such a little darling. I love having mine out but can´t free range them through the whole house, it would be ABSOLUTE chaos but they are enjoying having the living room and balcony to roam ´whenever I´m at home. Photos please of this lovely little lassie


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