# rabbit rolling around suddenly



## esupi (May 17, 2010)

Hi.

We have two Netherland Dwarf house rabbits. This morning, one of them started acting oddly flopping and rolling around - basically doing a 'bunny flop' over and over. She was then laying fully stretched out, which is abnormal behaviour for her (the other one does this, but this one usually sits in a ball). Moreover, she didn't even move when I approached her in this position and just let me stroke her (normally neither of them do this). Then, whilst laying stretched out, she started circling round with her back legs - it looked like she was trying to get up but her back legs wouldn't support her. However, all of this lasted maybe 10 minutes, then I let them out fora run around the lounge and she was running around just as normal.

She has not touched her breakfast this morning, and is now laying flopped out again. I don't know if this is something I should worry about or not - it is definitely not normal behaviour for her. We let them out in the garden for an hour yesterday, but they were under close supervision and I'm not aware of anything that's happened to her that could be causing this. They have both been sprayed with Rearguard and no obvious signs of anything.

Any advice would be gratefully received - I don't want to rush her off to the vets only to have her bahave completely normally once we get there!!

Thanks.

esupi


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## Pipp (May 17, 2010)

She definitely needs to get to a vet ASAP. 

How old is she? 

Is her head tilted at all? 

Off the top of my head, this could be a neurological condition, a vestibular thing, an ear infection, a response to a toxic substance or a parasite.

Think very carefully re: what she may have eaten in terms of fertilized plant life, insecticides, etc.. 

Watch for her eyes making odd movements. 

The vet will want to know these things. 

Try and get her to drink and at least eat a few parsley stems or something. 


sas :clover:


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## esupi (May 17, 2010)

Hi sas. 
Took her to the vet shortly after posting - better to be safe than sorry I thought. As predicted, she exhibited totally normal behaviour at the vets (struggling, trying to escape, generally misbehaving!).
She is 15 months old, and no tilted head.
We don't pay that much attention to the garden, so fertilisers/pesticides are not possible. In fact, we recently stripped out most of the plants so it was really easy to keep them away from the few remaining while they were out. All I can think is that there might have been something growing in the grass that she could have eaten.

No odd eye movements, although we have noticed a little 'gunk' stuck to her right eye on two occasions in the last couple of days (this clears quickly though).

The vet checked her over but couldn't pinpoint anything obvious. We've been given an antibiotic to give her for a week, and a wormer for both bunnies. Vet said to keep an eye on her, and if she's not eating by tomorrow to take her back in. She has been drinking water though, which is good, I think. She seemed fine when I took her home after the vets, but I had to leave her to come to work. I'll get home early to check on her later.

Thanks!

Esupi.


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## ra7751 (May 17, 2010)

Most likely you are seeing the initial signs of a vestibular (ear) infection. This infection is usually found in the middle and/or inner ear and is usually not visible. The antibiotics that most vets still use (usually a sulfa drug or Baytril/Cipro) are becoming increasingly ineffective against the pathogen that is usually found in ear infections. The wormer you have been given is most likely Panacur (Fenbendazole). This is in response to the long held belief that a protozoan infection we call E Cuniculi causes these types of symptoms. We now know that the EC itself doesn't cause these.....but it compromises the immune system to the point that opportunisitc infections appear. The initial clinical presentations of EC are some degree of paresis usually in the left rear leg and urinary incontenance. EC migrates to the brain. While the Panacur is an effective wormer and probably won't do any harm, if this is the initial stages of EC, we also know that Panacur isn't very effective since it can't pass the blood/brain barrier. I have been using Ponazuril (Marquis) for quite some time in treating EC.

I would keep a very close watch on your rabbit. Watch for nystagmus (darting of the eyes). Ear infection usually, but not always, lead to torticollis (head tilt). The direction of the spin and/or tilt is an indication of the side of the infection. Ear infections also usually have caused some of the higher fevers I have ever seen in rabbits. Improperly treated ear infections can migrate to the brain stem and that opens an entirely new set of problems. Good luck.

Randy


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## esupi (May 17, 2010)

Thanks Randy - spot on with the drugs - Baytril and Panacur. This will be really helpful should things go downhill as I'll be able to have a more constructive discussion with the vet.
Will be home shortly so fingers crossed....
esupi.


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## esupi (May 17, 2010)

ok - just got home and it's not looking good. Truffle was sitting up grinding her teeth. Tried to give her some coriander, which she normally wolfs down, but she just threw herself down onto it and wriggled around like this morning. i've noticed her back legs are now stained light orange, and it looks like that might be from her wee (there is some on the newspaper near her litter tray that's not quite dried, and a couple of other patches of dried wee - she normally wees in the litter tray).

Does this change anything? Should I rush her back to the vet, or continue with the antibiotics until tomorrow?

Thanks.
esupi


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## esupi (May 17, 2010)

oh - since I got home she has been hiding too - under a tunnel she has. normally she's really sociable and stays out in the open.


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## Pipp (May 17, 2010)

I was actually going to edit my post to add that you should also watch for signs of a urinary infection. 

Randy is right about the ear infection being the most common cause of tilt and rolling, and the stress and confusion from the infection could well be causing the urinary issue, but I've also heard cases where a urinary tract infection did cause back end issues. 

Your description is more of a back side rolling and not so much led by the head, which still could mean an ear infection causing a vestibular thing, but the other I think might be possible as well. 

The antibiotics are still the way to go. 

Keep her calm, warm and well hydrated. I don't think there is any other treatment at this point, although maybe a better antibiotic and a subcutaneous infusion of fluids. 


sas ray:


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## Pipp (May 17, 2010)

Oh, and pain meds! She tooth-grinding is a pain response, that is really important. If you can get back to the vet to pick up something for pain, do so. Randy may have better suggestions for this, I just use Metacam, and that has to be given to a well-hydrated rabbit with food in the stomach. 

You may also want to pick up some Critical Care or and equivalent, its a powder you mix with water and feed with a feeding syringe, seeing as her appetite is off. 

PPS: Hopefully Randy will also respond, but I think a more aggressive antibiotic may also be called for. We use injectable penicillin -- PenG or Bicillin -- here, but I don't think you have it there (although I know you have injectable Convenia). The injection regime is given in conjunction with an oral like Zithromax, although your vet may want to stick with Baytril, which is not all that effective these days. 

But something more to discuss with the vet. And definitely mention the EC treatment, Ponazuril (Marquis).


sas :clover:


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## ra7751 (May 17, 2010)

Ear infections are quite painful. I usually use Metacam for up to 4 days. In conjunction, either Tramadol or Buprenorphine. The latter two drugs are great at controlling pain and dosing can be manipulated to offer some sedation which might be of major help right now.

If you could put your location in your profile, I can make some suggestions on appropriate antibiotics. Different countries have different drugs approved for veterinary use. I am thinking you may be in the UK.

Randy


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## tonyshuman (May 17, 2010)

Definitely pain meds. The urinary thing could be from pain, or it could be a separate symptom. Sometimes peeing on themselves is from pain, which it's clear she's experiencing,, sometimes it's a sign of a UTI. If you cannot get to the vet tonight, baby aspirin or infant ibuprofen drops can be given. We can help with dosing if this is what you have to do.


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## esupi (May 17, 2010)

Thanks guys - whizzed her to the vet and got there just before closing. Yet again - she behaved like a normal rabbit once there! The vet has given her a shot for the pain, and we've booked in for another check up tomorrow, and my partner is going to work from home tomorrow to keep an eye on her. She seems more relaxed now back from the vets, and ate 1 piece of hay (that's a start I guess)....


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## esupi (May 17, 2010)

oh - yes, I am in the UK. Thanks.


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## ra7751 (May 17, 2010)

The drug I would consider is Convenia. This drug is a cephalosporin which is safe in rabbits only when injected. Covenia is labeled as an injectable drug. When used in rabbits, it should be used at standard dosing amount but has to be administered more often than the label states. Zithromax is also an excellent choice but if I remember correctly, at one time in the UK it wasn't very easy for a vet to acquire.

Randy


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## esupi (May 18, 2010)

Truffle seems back to her normal self this morning! Not sure if that's because the pain meds are still working, or because she's genuinely better.
Thanks guys!
esupi.


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## ra7751 (May 18, 2010)

Don't drop your guard quite yet.


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