# REW rabbit scanning



## Amy27 (Aug 17, 2010)

The above picture is of Alfred. A bunny at the humane society who is currently being fostered by Allison, who may come and chime in on this thread. Alfred is a huge scanner. He scans all the time. He is also crabby. He grunts and acts like he will bite you. Though I don't think he has ever actually biten anyone. 

Anyway, I thought he scanned because he was a REW rabbit. But reading about it, REW rabbits are all white and he has black on him. So, if he is not a REW, why would he be scanning? He has red eyes. Can any red eyed bunny scan? 

I guess the bottom line is his crabbiness as I call it. He is never going to be adopted. I am trying to find the cause of his crabbiness and believed it was because he had problems seeing. I am 100% sure I have seen him scan side to side. I would like to see him find a home or stay with Allison. But him being crabby isn't helping him. I think if I could figure out why, it may help. I thought it was because he was a REW rabbit but now that I know he isn't. I am confused about the scanning and crabbiness. Though he can be crabby. He is also sooooo adorable. 

I know Allison has had some problems with him grunting and lundging at her (correct me if I am wrong Allison). But then she will give him a grape and he will steal it from her hand. Could he just be crabby? Afraid to trust? Or does it probably have something to do with his scanning. What can you do for a rabbit who scans? To make them more comfortable. Everything I have read on here is about REW rabbits. I am so confused lol


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## Whiskerz (Aug 17, 2010)

what does "scaning" mean?


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## Amy27 (Aug 17, 2010)

hmmm I am trying to think of a way to explain it. It is when a rabbit moves it's head side to side or up and down, scanning an area so that it can see it better. Someone else might have a better definition. lol that is the only way I can think to explain it.


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## Whiskerz (Aug 17, 2010)

ohhhh weird.


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## pamnock (Aug 17, 2010)

"Scanning" is like watching a tennis match. Common in rabbits with diminished pigment in the eyes. Alfred is a Himalayan pattern aka pointed white.

Rews and Himis scanned as well as some shaded varieties.


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## Amy27 (Aug 17, 2010)

Thanks Pam. So I am not crazy knowing that he was scanning even though he isn't a REW. Do you have any advice on how to best handle a rabbit who scans and is crabby? Should you move slower? Is it okay to pick them up?


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## slavetoabunny (Aug 17, 2010)

My Snowball is a REW and scans all of the time. She started out as a very crabby bunny. I got the h*** bit out of me for around the first 6 months I had her. I even got a free eyebrow piercing from her! I just worked on loving her up and now she is the best bun ever. Her wonderful personality allows her to be our pet therapy bunny at a local nursing home. I would never say that Alfred is unadoptable. Most any bunny can be rehabbed with a little love and understanding.


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## pamnock (Aug 17, 2010)

Yes - slow movement, speak softly to let Alfred know you are approaching and avoid bright lights.


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## Amy27 (Aug 17, 2010)

Patti, your Snowball sounds adorable. Thank you for sharing your story.

I think I should clarify why I said Alfred isn't adoptable. I think he is a sweet amazing bun even when he is cranky. However, he is owned by a kill shelter. Meaning if they feel an animal is not adoptable, they will put them to sleep. I am afraid because of Alfred's crabby attitude that they will feel he will never be adopted and put him to sleep. He has been there a long time compared to the other rabbits. I would love to give him a home if I had the money. But my current bladder stone/sludge bunny is taking all my money right now. I think Alfred would be a wonderful house rabbit. I just don't think the humane society will think like I do. They have already taken Alfred out of the humane society and paid for him to see an outside vet due to his urine scald. I just feel like soon they are going to say enough is enough, this rabbit will not find a home and needs to be put to sleep. I hope that makes better sense then what I put in my first post about Alfred being unadoptable. I just mean the right person has to come along or it may be to late for Alfred.

ETA: What I am trying to say is it isn't that I think Alfred is unadoptable. I am just afraid the humane society which is a kill humane society will think he is unadoptable. I think Alfred would be a wonderful house rabbit.


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## Amy27 (Aug 17, 2010)

Thanks Pam. I think you and I posted at the same time.


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## snap (Aug 18, 2010)

Now don't take my word as the bunny bible, it's just my personal experience.

But, it always seemed to calm my red-eyed bunnies if it was darker when I approached them. I've had 4 Californians and 6 New Zealands((in terms of my red-eyed bunnies)), and when I kept them in the garage I learned to keep the lights off except the heat lamp so it's not too bright. They were a lot less flighty and a tad more receptive to me this way. 

He just needs some patience and love, and he'll be a good little bunny in no time.  My only remaining New Zealand was how you describe Alfred- she lunged, tried to bite, grunted a couple times. I got out a big pen and just sat with her. Eventually she learned I wasn't a threat, and that I also was the bringer of good things-food, water, ice bottles((oh how she loves those!)), and her chew toys. She gradually became calmer and a lot more accepting- even my 9 year old cousin held her once!


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## tamsin (Aug 18, 2010)

Any rabbit with red eyes may scan, that includes those that have quite dark eyes rather than the pinky red. Most red eyed rabbits have white fur (in which case the are called REW - Red-Eyed White) but it's not exclusively white rabbits.

The scanning is because their depth perception is effected. Moving their head from side to side helps them judge distance by offsetting the angle of what they are looking at. Red eyed rabbits can have generally poorer vision too.

Rabbits usually compensate well for vision impairment but they will do less well in noisey environments, changing environments or if they are already nervous.

Some of his aggressive behaviour could be fear aggression or territorial behaviour (is he neutered?), or even from pain if he's being treated for urine scold.

The poor vision could contribute towards the aggression but it doesn't mean the aggression is untreatable. I would try to make friends the same way you would with any other nervous rabbit, ensuring you don't respond to aggression (so he learns it's not a useful reaction), in addition make sure you announce your intentions clearly.. don't sneak up  

Tam


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## Amy27 (Aug 18, 2010)

Thanks Tamsin! You explained it great. I know Allison will appreciate that. 

If a rabbit is territorial, will they show the aggresion right away when moved to a new environment? At the humane society, Alfred was only aggresive in his cage, which makes me think he is territorial. When we bring him out in the x-pen, he is fine. I believe he was crabby and aggresive right after Allison took him in. Could he have made that his territory so quickly? But I believe Allison said he is aggresive only when he is in his cottage or litter box.


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## AllisonC (Aug 21, 2010)

Hey..it's Alfred's foster mom. I cant figure him out. I blamed the grunting & lunging on the eye sight but now I think it is a trust issue as well. He definitely does not like for me to reach in his cottontail cottage. He will grunt & lunge. Sometimes run out of it & grunt & then sniff my hand and run back in. One time I felt his tooth (not hard). It was like once he realized what my hand was..then he backed off. So then I blamed his eyesight. He uses his litter box perfect but at the humane society barely used it. I found out he was adopted from the hs a couple years ago & just returned due to allergies. They didn't notice the aggression when he was at the humane society the first time. He does run aroundthe room when I let him out of his pen. I get to see binkies.

i guess the question is what can i do to help with the aggression. I agree with Amy & thatit will be hard to find someone to adopt him.Anyone reaching into his cage will not get to see the bun I see running around all happy. They will only see a bun whogrunts & doesn't use his litter box.I have to return himthis week.I only had him for his feet to heal. My hubby said it isn't something that I can resolvein two weeks.What can Amy& I doto help when he is back at the humane society. I could always ask to foster him again to work on his aggression. I'm not that experienced with what to do. Maybe time is the only answer??


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## Amy27 (Aug 21, 2010)

I really think time may be the only answer. I think he needs to trust and feel comfortable. He has been moved around so much before you got him. With going to the vets, then a day or two later going to Danielle's, and then a couple days later going to your house. I think his aggression was probably worse by the time you got him because he was so freaked out with everything going on. We also know he has been in at least two homes previously. 

BTW, I sent you an email back.


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## Tweetiepy (Aug 21, 2010)

My bun does this too - my daughter calls it "Parrotting" he moves his head like a parrot does. I think it's cute. I find him skittish sometimes too - but then again my son does move pretty fast (but Peaches is much faster than he is and will run away)


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## AllisonC (Aug 22, 2010)

You are right. I just hope we can find him a home whether it is me or not. It didnt help that he lunged at my hubby this morning while he was putting lettuce next to his cottontail cottage. Although Dave understands it isnt personal, but was surprised by it. He has been good & patient about letting Alfred come to him. I am going to continue with praises & positive reinforcement for the bun man.We just need to figure out what to do when he is back at the shelter.


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## Amy27 (Aug 22, 2010)

I will watch him at the shelter while you are on vacation. If need be and if the shelter agrees, I can foster him. Once you get back and know whether you want to take him or not, we can go from there. But I promise to keep an eye on him while you are gone. 

I don't blame your hubby for being surprised by Alfred going after him when he was given him greens. I do think if Alfred was in a home for a longer time he would become better. He has been in so many homes and has been taking back to the shelter so many times, I think it will take awhile for him to trust anyone. He can be such a sweet bunny. I know he has it in him to be a loving bunny. If you think about it from the bunny's perspective. He has been moved around a lot. He has probably trusted previous owners, which is why they had no complaints on his attitude, but they dumped him at the humane society. He has been moved around so much. Has so many people trying to touch him and love on him. I think it will take awhile for him to feel comfortable to trust someone that they won't take him back, that they won't hurt him. I think right now, he is in defense mode. He is trying to protect himself from being hurt. It doesn't help that his eye sight is bad.


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## Maureen Las (Aug 22, 2010)

*Amy27 wrote: *


> Patti, your Snowball sounds adorable. Thank you for sharing your story.
> 
> I think I should clarify why I said Alfred isn't adoptable. I think he is a sweet amazing bun even when he is cranky. However, he is owned by a kill shelter. Meaning if they feel an animal is not adoptable, they will put them to sleep. I am afraid because of Alfred's crabby attitude that they will feel he will never be adopted and put him to sleep. He has been there a long time compared to the other rabbits. I would love to give him a home if I had the money. But my current bladder stone/sludge bunny is taking all my money right now. I think Alfred would be a wonderful house rabbit. I just don't think the humane society will think like I do. They have already taken Alfred out of the humane society and paid for him to see an outside vet due to his urine scald. I just feel like soon they are going to say enough is enough, this rabbit will not find a home and needs to be put to sleep. I hope that makes better sense then what I put in my first post about Alfred being unadoptable. I just mean the right person has to come along or it may be to late for Alfred.
> 
> ETA: What I am trying to say is it isn't that I think Alfred is unadoptable. I am just afraid the humane society which is a kill humane society will think he is unadoptable. I think Alfred would be a wonderful house rabbit.



This is exactly the way my humane society is also; they cannot adopt out a bunnywhois aggressive ; most of my rabbitswere "unadoptable" to the general public soI adopted them. Unless a bun is viscious I am happy to have a bun who is not perfectly sweet. Sometimes welook for adults who are rabbit saavy to adopt rabbits like this but rabbit saavy adults are hard to find in the general public. 
I havebeen through a lot of stress and worry when we have this kind of rabbit because many times a really good patient owner and home are the key to success and other times it may just be the disposition of that particular rabbit and almost nothing will change it. 
it would be really nice if this rabbit could go back into foster...

What was the urine scald all about???


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## tamsin (Aug 22, 2010)

A rabbit will quite quickly claim a safe spot as their territory, it could be a mix of nerves and territorial behaviour. If you think of the cage as their safe spot but it is also (usually) a corner they can't escape from so if they are scared (backed into a corner) they will pounce on anything entering it to make it go away. 

If he's fine when he's exploring the pen/room rather than in the cage that points towards at least an element of territorial behaviour. Often territorial rabbits will be well behaved away from their 'den' so that can be one way to work out the cause behind the behaviour. 

I don't know if it helps, but when he went for your hubby (or you) he's probably not stopping to work out who it is first. It will be an instinctive reaction not thought out. Opening the cage but keeping your hand outside it, then letting him come over and take a treat may help. That way cage opening stops being the signal for someone invading, and it gives him time to get over the instinctive reaction (attack invader), calm down and realise it's you.

I completely agree, there isn't really a quick fix (neutering may help if he's not already) but it will take time to relearn appropriate behaviour


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## Amy27 (Aug 22, 2010)

Maureen, the urine scald issue is still kind of up in the air in my mind. The humane society took him to the vet and the vet said nothing was medically wrong with him. They prescribed baytril. But I don't understand how they found nothing wrong. I don't think they did any tests. I also don't understand why they would prescribe baytril if nothing was wrong. However, Alfred has been healing in his foster home. So we are confused on what is going on. He is going back to the shelter in less then a week and I am sure the urine scald will come back. He had some pretty nasty sores on his ankles. 

Tamsin, he is neutered.


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## Maureen Las (Aug 23, 2010)

*Amy27 wrote: *


> Maureen, the urine scald issue is still kind of up in the air in my mind. The humane society took him to the vet and the vet said nothing was medically wrong with him. They prescribed baytril. But I don't understand how they found nothing wrong. I don't think they did any tests. I also don't understand why they would prescribe baytril if nothing was wrong. However, Alfred has been healing in his foster home. So we are confused on what is going on. He is going back to the shelter in less then a week and I am sure the urine scald will come back. He had some pretty nasty sores on his ankles.
> 
> Tamsin, he is neutered.


The vet really should have run a blood panel to determine kidney function; urine scald just isn't normal; is his rear end wet all the time ?


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## tonyshuman (Aug 23, 2010)

It may have something to do with the angle at which you approach him--I would never come at him from the front--at the blind spot in front of his nose, but from the side. He may be able to find the grape by smell and touch. Rabbits use their other senses very well, including all those whiskers, so although his eyesight may be limited, he still has other senses to rely on. 

Another possibility is that rabbits depend on eyesight a lot to see motion--not the outlines of things, but to show them where motion is in their visual field. They don't focus on things as well as humans do, so they mostly see kind of blurry stuff and will notice it more when it's moving. It's hard to explain but it's dependent on the way that the brain processes images and the shape of the eye. You notice how we have lots of white in our eyes and a tiny pupil compared to rabbits? The large pupil they have means they can't focus an image as well on the back of the eye to see sharp detail. However, they can see a larger portion of the area their eye is facing at any given time because they don't have to move the pupil as much to see stuff because it's bigger. 

I feel like I'm doing a lot of hand-waving here, and it's really hard to compare eyesight in different species, but at least that's a bit of what I've learned as a neuroscientist. I do have to say that I was not the biggest fan of the vision portions of my classes but at least I think I understand what's going on here. Does that help or should I try to explain better?


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## Amy27 (Aug 23, 2010)

Maureen, his rearend is wet all the time and he stinks like urine. I want to push the humane society to do more. But I don't want them to shut me out from what is going on. It doesn't help that he has improved in foster care. I think they will say if it was due to a medical reason, he wouldn't improve in foster care. However, I don't think it is fair to potentially adopt out a rabbit who could have an underlying issue that could cost the new owner a lot of money and where Alfred could end up back at the humane society. He is only like a year and a half and this is his second time being at this humane society. 

Claire, that was awesome and totally made sense. Thank you for explaining that. 

We are hoping that instead of taking Alfred back to the humane society on Friday, they will let me foster him while Allison is on vacation. I am thinking of taking Alfred to my vet for diagnostics so we can see what is wrong. The only issue is I would be doing it behind the humane societies back. What am I going to say if they find something? Also, it will be pretty pricey. My vet is expensive and will probably be about $200. But I just really want him to have the proper exam he deserves. I am torn on what to do.


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## slavetoabunny (Aug 25, 2010)

*tonyshuman wrote: *


> It may have something to do with the angle at which you approach him--I would never come at him from the front--at the blind spot in front of his nose, but from the side. He may be able to find the grape by smell and touch. Rabbits use their other senses very well, including all those whiskers, so although his eyesight may be limited, he still has other senses to rely on.




I found it best with Snowball to approach her from in front and above her face. Now it doesn't matter, she is a sweetheart. But in the beginning, this was how I would give her my hand. She always loved nose pets, but if your hand came at her the wrong way you would bleed.


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## suburbanfarmer (Aug 27, 2010)

The main causes of aggressive behavior in any animal are pain and fear issues. This rabbit seems like he has a lot of reasons to act the way he is acting. Aggressive behavior is so common when an animal comes through the Humane Society. If that rabbit has spent even a little time there, it will take him a while to get over the trauma. Rabbits do not do well in those types of enviorments. I am also with Amy on the urin issue. It soundes like he has something going on in that department that needs to be addressed. Have they clipped the area to keep it clean? That would help make him feel better and it would help to see better what is going on down there. You can rub some diaper rash cream on it to make it feel better if it is red and painful looking. Hope he does better.


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## Nancy McClelland (Aug 27, 2010)

Nikki, our Avatar is a REW. Never really seen her do any scanning, but she is a world class sleeper. As you can see, even at 3 months she would sleep in her hutch on her back with all her legs in the air. She is the goofiest little rabbit.


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## golfdiva (Aug 30, 2010)

All of the above comments make sense. Here's one more thing to think about:

When Hershey sees me coming, he races into his bunny cottage. This is my cue to stick my hand or a toy in through one of the enterances. He will grunt, box and lunge at whatever I stick in (but he has never bitten me!). If I stop "teasing" him he will stick his head out and look around for me like he's thinking "Why did you stop playing with me?"! LOL!

Could someone have been playing with him this way? And now he doesn't realize he is taking it too far, or know his own strength, or that now it's not appreciated?


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## AllisonC (Sep 5, 2010)

Everyone's suggestions have been great. Alfred is back at the shelter & his aggression has improved so much. They are keeping him in a room that is quiet & only staff are allowed to enter (although Amy & I have been sneaking in & getting him out for exercise). Maybe it was the pain & fear that caused it. He seems like a different bun. We are trying to see if the humane society will move him to a quiet room that is open for possible adopters to see him. Urine scald is gone & his tootsies are good. I'm not sure what caused it. It could be like the aggression and he was just scared & sitting in his urine?? Keep your paws crossed that they will be open to him moving to that room.


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