# Anyone who has/had a rabbit with pasteurella?



## Katmais_mommy (Feb 19, 2010)

I'm going to the vet with Katmai tomorrow. If his infection is determined as pasteurella, then I need to know what I'm in for


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## ra7751 (Feb 19, 2010)

Every rabbit has pasteurella....so does every mammal (including humans) and many birds. It is an "opportunistic" bacteria that lies dormant until the opportunity arises that it can grow. In an ideal world, the host's immune system can keep this bacteria under control. In rabbits,it most often presents as an Upper Respiratory Infection but can invade any body tissue and is commonly found as a "tag along" in abscess situations. Pasteurella can't be technically cured but can be controlled....a type of remission. I call it "putting the genie back into the bottle". Most strains of Pasteurella are sensitive to penicillin and cephalosporins...but few vets know how to properly use these drugs. They are safe only as injectables. Most vets continue to use old Sulfa drugs (Bactrim, Septra, Sulfatrim, Trimethoprim, etc.) and early floroquinolones (Cipro and Baytril) but they are increasingly ineffective in today's world due to resistance. I have used a new floroquinolone (Zeniquin/Marbofloxacin) successfully. My current drug of choice against Pasteurella is Azithromycin (Zithromax). Regardless of the pathogen and/or drug used....in order to reduce the chance of resistant bacteria in the future, it is important for your doctor to clinically identify the pathogen and prescribe an appropriate drug and it's your responsibility to administer any drugs exactly as prescribed both in amount and duration. The trend in human medicine is to limit antibiotics to only more complex infections (and that should be trickling down to veterianry medicine) in an effort to limit future resistance issues.

Randy


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## tiabia0 (Feb 28, 2010)

My 5.5year old dutch died from pasteurella infection 2.5years ago. It was quite sudden and very random. She started acting strange so we took her to the vet and they didnt see anything wrong inside her (i will never go to that vet again). we did force feed her and had her on meds to move the gut and she was always cold. After a few days she had started losing a little weight. When she had passed away we took her to a vet I normally take my cats to and they did an autopsy. She said she found a tumor inside (this rabbit was never spayed) and a lot of gunk which came from the pasteurella infection.


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## Maureen Las (Feb 28, 2010)

Your rabbit didn't specifically die from just a bacterial infection but from a bacterial infection most likely exacerbated by a low immune response created by a malignancy. 

Most URI or other bacterial infections usually are treatable if caught early and treated aggressively with the correct antibiotics. 

Did the vet take your rabbit's temperature.? A rabbit with a low body temperture needs to be warmed before any attempts to syringe feed solids. An animal with a low body timperature (or high for that matter) cannot digest and assimilate food. SQ fluids and warming the rabbit are the first things that need to be done. 

I agree that you should not go to that vet again.


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## tiabia0 (Mar 1, 2010)

I cannot even remember everything we went through with my rabbit before she died. She definitely did have a low temperature, I remember that. We would heat up water bottles and put them in her cage. She was perfectly normal then bam out of nowhere she was a completely different bunny and in a matter of a couple days she was gone. I know dealing with the infection and tumor it would have been hard to get her back to normal.


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## Runestonez (Mar 2, 2010)

Our Peppers had pasturella when we first brought her home...
that was 4 years ago...
We did a long run of high Baytril dosing...about 6 months.

She is fine now...but if she gets overly stressed she will develop white snotties around her nose...not scads...but noticable. We don't usually have to intervene...it usually settles on its own when the stress is resolved.:biggrin2:

Pasturella used to REALLY worry us...but it is an overgrowth of bacteria that is already present in everybunny...it just happens to be an overgrowth of THAT particular type. It's manageable! 

Danielle


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## ra7751 (Mar 2, 2010)

Just a couple of thoughts. Baytril is no longer as effective against Pasteurella as it was several years ago. Something that most vets aren't aware of is the lingering effects from long term use of certain drugs. Baytril, like many drugs, can be damaging to the liver and kidneys when used long term.It has also been linked to some joint issues especially in younger animals. Sometimes long term dosing is the only way but we now know that we have much more aggressive drugs that don't have to be dosed long term that are highly effective at managing Pasteurella as well as other opportunistic bacteria. If long term dosing of any drug is indicated, a full CBC should be performed to provide a base charting level and regular CBCs performed during the dosing in order to monitor vital organs.

Randy


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## karenladd (Mar 3, 2010)

I have had several rabbits with pasturella who lived for years afterwards. They were treated with Baytril (both oral and injectable) but the medication was pretty much given continuously. One of my rabbits had abcesses under his chin that had to be removed surgically, and also had ear infections that lasted for years. I had to clean his ears out with antibiotic fluids in a syringe weekly, and give Baytril orally. He lived for about 3 years after his diagnosis, much to the vet's surprise. Until the last month, he was fiesty, affectionate, and ate like a horse. He was probably about 9 years old when he died, which is a good lifespan, even for a healthy rabbit. His was the worst case but I also had several others who would periodically start sneezing, with discharge from their noses. Several rounds of Baytril would cause the infection to subside and they were fine for up to a year at a time. However, it would recur off and on.

Pasturella can be very stubborn, but it can be treated if you catch it fairly early. It does, however, usually recur.


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## karenladd (Mar 3, 2010)

Thanks for the update on the use of Baytril. When I had my rabbits, Baytril was the only drug out there that was used for rabbits. With Duncan, since he was on meds for 3 years straight, I switched over to Tetracycline at one point, and that seemed to hold the infection at bay as well. It was also much cheaper! I gave injectable Baytril for several months, in the hopes that the infection would subside enough to stop medication for awhile, but it didn't make a difference. I know that duncan would never have lived another 3 years if he weren't on antibiotics because his ear infection was terrible. He had an abcess in his middle ear that could not be surgically removed so we were only able to control it from spreading.


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## tonyshuman (Mar 3, 2010)

I would recommend that in the future you give antibiotics for longer and try different ones, as well as looking into non-surgical treatments for abscesses. 

This article describes a method to treat stubborn abscesses with injectible medicine (that is easily available at many farm stores) without surgery. When the injectible meds here are combined with an oral drug, like zithromax (azithromycin), a lot of success in treating abscesses, ear infections, and upper respiratory infections has been achieved. The other indications aren't mentioned in the article, but the most common bacteria to cause abscesses are usually the same ones that cause inner ear and upper respiratory infections. These include pasturella species, psuedomonas species, staphylococcus species, and others.

http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~jwmoore/bicillin/bicillin.htm

Karenladd--it sounds like you really care a lot about your bunnies and do everything you can to give them good care, but perhaps your vet is a bit out-of-date in his rabbit treatment knowledge. It's not really best to remove an abscess, unless it's in a life-threatening place (putting pressure on a vital organ, or the trachea for example) and the abscess is highly encapsulated. Many abscesses aren't little spherical balls of infection, but instead have long finger-like projections that extend out (that would be a poorly encapsulated abscess). The next time your rabbit presents with a URI or abscess, I'd print out the article I posted and bring it in for him to see.


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## karenladd (Mar 4, 2010)

Thanks for the article link. I will check it out! The rabbit with the abcesses had them on his throat and mouth area, which is why the vet wanted to remove them. He was worried they would compromise breathing and eating. As this was about 7 years ago, Baytril was about the only thing people were prescribing. I'll look up the more current medications that are being used and print it out to take to my vet.

It was very frustrating early on, because most vets didn't know anything about treating rabbits and there were very few treatments available. I'm glad to hear that there are more treatment options these days!


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## tonyshuman (Mar 4, 2010)

Yeah, rabbit medicine has come a long way in the last few years. It's really great for us bunny lovers!


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## karenladd (Mar 5, 2010)

Hi Claire,

I just wanted to let you know that I took my rabbit, Nora, to the vet today to find out what those lumps were under her ears and it turns out that they were abcesses. The vet opened the abcesses up and cleaned then, and Nora is now on Baytril. I asked her about bicillin (from the article that you directed me to) but she is not comfortable with using anything penicillin based due to the long history of it being considered dangerous for rabbits. We are going to use Baytril and see if it takes care of the problem. Having had success with Baytril in the past, I am fine with going this direction to start. 

Unfortunately, we have no idea what caused the bi-lateral abcesses and I'm hoping they won't re-appear. Thanks for your help!


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## ra7751 (Mar 5, 2010)

I hate to say this but your vet is way out of the times. I use many drugs that just a couple of years ago were considered a huge "no no" with rabbits. Fact is that Baytril is rarely effective against any infection. A true abscess contains anaerobic bacteria and Baytril doesn't have a chance to resolve an abscess. An abscess does contain aerobic bacteria such as pasteurella, pseudomonas, staph, strep and may others....but they are not the primary infection in a true abscess. They are "tag alongs". If you use drugs that might treat the tag alongs, the abscess will never resolve. And surgery is no longer always indicated with an abscess. I have treated numerous abscesses without surgery....drugs only. Ask your vet is she would use Convenia in a rabbit. We do. We also use Chloramphenicol, Zeniquin and several others. I even use penicillin in the most delicate of rabbits....baby eastern cottontails.

In defense of your vet, there is very little training or CE they receive in these issues even in vet school....and I know since I sometimes do programs at a local vet school. And sometimes they are limited by practice policies. And unfortunatele, some are just stuck in their old fashioned ways that have been proven wrong. No flaming intended toward your vet....most of them are "behind the eight ball" when treating exotics.

Randy


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## tonyshuman (Mar 5, 2010)

:yeahthat:


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## karenladd (Mar 5, 2010)

When I read the article about using Bicillin for abcesses it stressed that the Bicillin can only be given as an injectable, and never orally. Have you found this to be the case for you as well?

If the Baytril doesn't take care of the abcess, I will be asking about other means to treat but I'm hoping this does it. There aren't very many vets around here who treat rabbits so I'll call around.

Thanks!


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## JadeIcing (Mar 5, 2010)

*karenladd wrote: *


> When I read the article about using Bicillin for abcesses it stressed that the Bicillin can only be given as an injectable, and never orally. Have you found this to be the case for you as well?
> 
> If the Baytril doesn't take care of the abcess, I will be asking about other means to treat but I'm hoping this does it. There aren't very many vets around here who treat rabbits so I'll call around.
> 
> Thanks!


Where are you located?


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## ra7751 (Mar 5, 2010)

The problem with using Penicillin or Cephalosporins orally is that they are devastating on the "gram positive" bacteria that is needed to digest food. Without that bacteria, the food can't be digested but even more important, this beneficial bacterial also keeps the bad bacteria (primarily Clostridium) under control. There are many drugs that can used safely in rabbits as long as they are injected. And there are other benefits to injectables. It is less stressful on the animal (once you get the hang of injections) and the dosing is much more precise. And even in the case of Baytril....it is more effective if you keep it out of the acidic GI. I do have several vets in my area using these drugs after I proved to them the benefits of getting out of the mindset that Baytril is the only safe antibiotic for rabbits. And the bottom line is that it makes no difference how "safe" a drug is....but if it doesn't work, it's doesn't matter.

Randy


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## tonyshuman (Mar 5, 2010)

You absolutely cannot give Bicillin orally to rabbits. It destroys the good bacteria in the GI tract, which causes other bacteria to overgrow, and the rabbit will die quickly from diarrhea (dehydration) and the toxins released into the body by these bad bacteria. I know giving injections may sound daunting to a pet owner, but it is a useful skill for the future and allows you to use antibiotics that you wouldn't be able to use otherwise.

If you have a vet to show you how to do sub-q injections and provide you with sterile saline to dilute the Bicillin and other injection supplies, the drug itself can be bought at farm supply stores very cheaply.

This list shows which antibiotics are safe to use, and if they can only be injected, etc.
http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm


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## karenladd (Mar 5, 2010)

*ra7751 wrote: *


> The problem with using Penicillin or Cephalosporins orally is that they are devastating on the "gram positive" bacteria that is needed to digest food. Without that bacteria, the food can't be digested but even more important, this beneficial bacterial also keeps the bad bacteria (primarily Clostridium) under control. There are many drugs that can used safely in rabbits as long as they are injected. And there are other benefits to injectables. It is less stressful on the animal (once you get the hang of injections) and the dosing is much more precise. And even in the case of Baytril....it is more effective if you keep it out of the acidic GI. I do have several vets in my area using these drugs after I proved to them the benefits of getting out of the mindset that Baytril is the only safe antibiotic for rabbits. And the bottom line is that it makes no difference how "safe" a drug is....but if it doesn't work, it's doesn't matter.
> 
> Randy


Yes, I read about that and I do know the terrible effect antibiotics can have on the GI tract. I have given injectable Baytril at home to several rabbits (including the one who had the long term ear infection) but never anything else. I know that my vet was scared to death to use anything penicillin because of what they had been taught in vet school. I have a cousin who is a vet and plan to call her and ask her opinion. I don't know how familiar she or her husband is with rabbits though as they do mostly orthopedic surgery on dogs and cats.


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## karenladd (Mar 5, 2010)

Thanks so much for the links! I have done injections before so that won't be a problem. I have given Bayril through injection and have also done subcutaneous fluids so injections don't bother me at all. I have one vet who has allowed me to do injections at home so if the oral Baytril doesn't take care of Nora's problem I'll ask for a prescription for the bicillin and give it a try. I've done some further reading and saw another study that found injectable bicillin to be useful in soft tissue abcesses. 
Another antibiotic I want to ask about is Zithromax, which I had also never heard about.


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## tonyshuman (Mar 5, 2010)

Zithromax is commonly used in people (azithromycin). The vet may not have Bicillin, but again, it's found at places like Farm and Fleet or Tractor Supply Co. You'll also want some sterile saline or lactated ringer's solution to dilute the Bicillin with and make the injection "sting" less.


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## Pet_Bunny (Mar 5, 2010)

My foster just had her abscess removed surgically. She is labelled with Snuffles at the Humane Society. You can see some pictures in the new Gallery section on the side tabs.


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## ra7751 (Mar 5, 2010)

Such a shame. There is no such thing as "snuffles". I hate to see that term used because it tells me immediately about the level of rabbit experience I am dealing with when vets make that "diagnosis". And surgery is so unnecessary most of thetime. Just adds a lot of pain to the animal. And "snuffles" is a generic term used many times for an upper respiriatory infection. We now know that the bacteria Pasteurella Multocida is usually involved and it can infect any body tissue. But.....those of us that deal with rabbit abscesses on a regular basis know that Pasteurella is a "tag along" in abscess situations and isn't the primary infection. And the common drugs usually used for Pasteurella will not resolve a true abscess.

Randy


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## Katmais_mommy (Mar 5, 2010)

*ra7751 wrote: *


> Such a shame. There is no such thing as "snuffles". I hate to see that term used because it tells me immediately about the level of rabbit experience I am dealing with when vets make that "diagnosis". And surgery is so unnecessary most of thetime. Just adds a lot of pain to the animal. And "snuffles" is a generic term used many times for an upper respiriatory infection. We now know that the bacteria Pasteurella Multocida is usually involved and it can infect any body tissue. But.....those of us that deal with rabbit abscesses on a regular basis know that Pasteurella is a "tag along" in abscess situations and isn't the primary infection. And the common drugs usually used for Pasteurella will not resolve a true abscess.
> 
> Randy


Randy, are you a vet or some sort of so-called rabbit expert?


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## karenladd (Mar 5, 2010)

To Katmais Mommy:

Have you taken Katmais to the vet yet? Do you know if the diagnosis is pasturella?? Please let us know how your bunny is doing and what the vet says! It's always so worrisome when our furry babies are sick.


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## JadeIcing (Mar 5, 2010)

*Katmais_mommy wrote: *


> *ra7751 wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Such a shame. There is no such thing as "snuffles". I hate to see that term used because it tells me immediately about the level of rabbit experience I am dealing with when vets make that "diagnosis". And surgery is so unnecessary most of thetime. Just adds a lot of pain to the animal. And "snuffles" is a generic term used many times for an upper respiriatory infection. We now know that the bacteria Pasteurella Multocida is usually involved and it can infect any body tissue. But.....those of us that deal with rabbit abscesses on a regular basis know that Pasteurella is a "tag along" in abscess situations and isn't the primary infection. And the common drugs usually used for Pasteurella will not resolve a true abscess.
> ...


From Randys mod bio...

*



ra7551- RANDY- (Infirmary Moderator) - I'm Randy and I run Sabrina's House Rabbit Rescue. We are primarily a rescue and sanctuary for "special needs" domestic rabbits. I treat the cases that vets don't treat. My specialties are related to GI issues, head tilt and E Cuniculi. We also accept small exotic mammals as well as birds. I am a licensed wildlife rehabilitator with a specialty in eastern cottontails but I also work any animal that can be legally treated. There have been hundreds of cottontails and squirrels thru here and many other species from field mice and opossums to hawks, owls and eagles.

Click to expand...

*

I would also like to add that he works very close with a vet school. 



Snuffles is a broad term that can have a broad range of causes. It is like saying every time a person is sick it is the flu. There can be so many different causes and each requires a different protocal. The key to the most sucessful treatment is finding the EXACT cause and treating it with the best medication possible. 


Also I have a HIGH pasteurella postive bunny who has tried a LOT of medications beforeI pushed for something out of the norm and saw real postive results.


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## Katmais_mommy (Mar 5, 2010)

Thank you but I'm going to put my trust in a vet, not a rabbit rescue moderator. Also, even though you speak against Baytril, Katmai was prescribed Baytril and it worked WONDERFULLY. 

And to Karenladd: Katmai did see a vet. He has a low positive pasteurella that has been treated. Yesterday was his last day of medicine. He is much better!


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## JadeIcing (Mar 6, 2010)

If you get the chance you should read my guys story. Ringo and his Ongoing Story of Hope

It is a bit long but it starts back in Sept of 06. It can give you an idea on some triggers.


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## Maureen Las (Mar 6, 2010)

*Katmais_mommy wrote: *


> Thank you but I'm going to put my trust in a vet, not a rabbit rescue moderator. Also, even though you speak against Baytril, Katmai was prescribed Baytril and it worked WONDERFULLY.
> 
> And to Karenladd: Katmai did see a vet. He has a low positive pasteurella that has been treated. Yesterday was his last day of medicine. He is much better!



I have had baytril work wonderfully the first few times it is prescribed but inevitably the infection will return. I have had so called "rabbit -saavy" vets prescribe baytril for difficult URI infections only to have the rabbit worsen mid treatment; most rabbits will eventually develop a resistance to baytril.

It is most commonly prescribed because vets have notup-dated their knowledge beyondthe simple fundamentalslearnedin their exotics rotation in school

When treating rabbits one needs to investigateany vet before permitting treatment...just too risky

that actually means learning a lot on your own which is why a site like this is so helpful 


DVM behind a name means very little when treating rabbits unless the vet hasstudied rabbit medicineand treated many. 

I am veryvery glad that your rabbit has improved. That is really what it is all about here.


...and stick around the forum a little longer. 

Randy is quite a bitmore more than a 'rabbit rescue moderator"; heis responsible forsaving rabbit's lives on this forum;he hasadvised vetsworldwide on "cutting edge" treatment for rabbits and his rescue is a training ground for exotics medicine 

Randy's vast knowledge on rabbits ( and wildlife) is current 
due to his alliance with a veterinary school. 


Maureen


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## pamnock (Mar 8, 2010)

*ra7751 wrote: *


> Such a shame. There is no such thing as "snuffles". I hate to see that term used because it tells me immediately about the level of rabbit experience I am dealing with when vets make that "diagnosis".
> Randy



"Snuffles" is actually a medical term used for humans as well as rabbits. We use it as a generic term for cold symptoms in rabbits. You will also find the term listed in the human medical dictionary for similar symptoms in humans. It is also a term associated with the nasal discharge of an infant with congenital syphilis.

We use the generic term "cold" for humans even though a "cold" isn't always caused by the rhino virus.

These terms aren't meant for diagnostic purposes, but to describe signs of illness.


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## Katmais_mommy (Mar 9, 2010)

:yeahthat:


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## BellaGracie (Feb 19, 2014)

My bun has been on baytril for a month now for pasteurella. It's helping a bit, but she isn't eating her night droppings anymore. How concerned should I be?


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## BlueMoods (Feb 20, 2014)

I agree, if the vet says your rabbit has snuffles, your first question should be "What is causing the snuffles?" If the vet doesn't know or offer tests to find out, the vet knows little about rabbits.


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## Cteske (Nov 10, 2014)

My 7 year old mini Rex had pastuella and the vet gave him bay trill three days later after we gave him his baytril he passed away. 15 mins after that


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## mmasters (May 5, 2015)

As a rancher with 25 years experience raising purebred Arabian show horses, miniature goats and longwool sheep,along with 12 years experience raising purebred longhair cavies, I would definitely put my faith in Randy's advice. Practioners of animal husbandry accumulate a vast wealth of practical knowledge which veterinarians don't have time to accumulate. Veterinarians are scientists who treat many patients, read medical literature, and go to conferences. They usually do not handle the day-to-day treatment of your animals. That is YOUR job. They are doctors, not caretakers.

As a caretaker with years of experience, I have learned how to give injections, read symptoms, start initial treatment, perform all kinds of first aid, and even suture open wounds. I have reached inside numerous female animals to reposition a baby for delivery, handle breeding stallions, and done all the things a good caretaker does to provide an optimal healthy, happy environment for my animals, and provide proper nutrition. Yes, I have taken animal science classes at the university, attended clinics on all sort of topics, such as nutrition, breeding, and other matters. None of this makes me a medical expert, which is why I hire the services of a veterinarian. Having a good vet, however, is not my only resource. I rely on the experiences of other ranches and cavy breeders as well.

I think the most important point of being an animal owner is to learn how to read your animals and the signs can be very subtle. A horse looking "not quite right", a marsu who seems "off the weather", a goat who isn't quite as energetic as usual. These are the subtle signs which foretell an illness long before the obvious symptoms which appear after the illness has been in the animal's system for several days. By then, your animal is very sick and you've lost precious time in starting treatment.

So, you look for the subtle signs, which is particularly important with rabbits, cavies, and other prey animals, who mask their symptoms until they are desperately ill. I read many forum posts like this: "Two days ago my bunny got a stuffy nose and now she won't eat. What should I do?" or "My marsu wouldn't eat last night and I woke up this morning and he was dead."

PEOPLE! Being an animal caretaker is more than relying on your veterinarian. You have to READ your animals. For example, I have a bunny on Batril. After 10 days, there was no improvement. She stopped eating. I called the vet. She said, "keep her on the Batril. Give it time to work." Based on my experience, I have seen animals not improve and that means it's usually because the drug is not effective for some reason. We may never know the reason - resistant bacteria, the animal is not metabolizing the drug properly, etc. So, at that point, I drew on my years of experience and decided that there are drugs which attack pneumonia better than Batril. So, Iconsulted the vet again and demanded that we try another medication. We put the bunny on trimethylprim sulfa. Within 36 hours, I saw dramatic improvement. She's still not eating, but she is more alert, has her ears up, and the white extrudant on her nose is gone. Okay, that's progress. Now, I have to get her to a better stage where she can eat without handfeeding. So, as a responsible owner, I do my homework. I read and read about apetite stimulants, other possible medications, and then armed with this knowledge, I call the vet. I present my findings and that gives the vet some ideas to think about. We discuss the options, make a plan, and try it for several days to see what happens. One option would be changing to a newer medication- maybe azithromycin (if it's available in Finland) or something else. What herbs are recommended and who has used them with success? How do I keep the costs of all this treatment reasonable? At the back of my mind is what happens if the bunny refuses to eat and has to be euthanized? How do I tell my husband because she is his bunny?

In the meantime, I rely very heavily on the experiences posted by people like Randy, who are kind and caring enough to spend their time - with being paid - to help those of us with less experience. To discount someone like Randy, just because he is not a vet, is pretty harsh. Veterinarians listen to people like Randy to add to their knoweldge base of what happens "in the field". 

Personally, I think Randy wrote a very good post with valuable information that you can't easily find elsewhere.

Thank you, Randy.


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## squidpop (May 5, 2015)

I also really value Randy's advice, I wish he was still active on the forum. I often use the search engine to look up his advice on specific topics. I also once contacted him through a Facebook page for the current animal rescue he runs and he emailed me and answered all my questions. He's brilliant


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## ZoeStevens (May 5, 2015)

I have a bun with Pasteurella. He had it when I got him. His lungs have always been clear and he came through his neutering surgery just fine (although the vet was very concerned he wouldn't, but she is a bit of a worry wart). His nose does pop and click when he inhales because he's snotty, and he does sneeze and have a little bit of yellowy discharge. His eyes used to get crusty too.

We did a round of abx to try to treat it, but it didn't make any change.

What helped most was getting him a friend. She keeps his face cleans and runs to be with him when he has a sneezing fit, and generally keeps him happy and keeps his stress down.

I have read and heard stories that range from "totally mild, no effect" to "died from horribly abscessed lungs" and I think most cases lie somewhere in the middle. I wouldn't worry too much. Be aware of it, keep him happy and healthy, go to the vet if you see a lot of discharge or gross green stuff, but he should live a reasonably long and normal life.

It is the herpes of the rabbit world, so said my vet yesterday. I have a cat with herpes and it also presents as an upper resp infection. There are a lot of boogers on my walls...


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## mmasters (May 6, 2015)

In the meantime, I rely very heavily on the experiences posted by people like Randy, who are kind and caring enough to spend their time - with being paid - to help those of us with less experience. To discount someone like Randy, just because he is not a vet, is pretty harsh. Veterinarians listen to people like Randy to add to their knoweldge base of what happens "in the field"

Oh oh, typo. "without being paid".

Ah, that's better.


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