# Critical Care Instead of Hay



## rhianna (Apr 25, 2014)

I've tried absolutely everything I could think of or find online to try and get Bear eating his hay. He'd never been fed it before, so when I got him at a year old, I guess he just was "programmed" to not eat it. It finally hit him hard one day about a month ago when he began losing weight fast and he wasn't pooping. Luckily I caught it early enough and the vet was able to give him IV fluids and just have me feed him Critical Care. They also took a stool sample which came back negative for any bacteria or infection.

Three weeks into the future, I brought him to the vet this past Monday and she was very happy with his improvement. His poop is completely back to normal (thanks to Critical Care) and he's been putting on weight again. The thing is that he still doesn't eat hay. The vet told me that I'll likely just have to keep giving him Critical Care forever, basically, in replacement of hay. I'm also going to have to bring him in for regular tooth trimmings, obviously. He goes in for his first unconscious tooth exam in a couple of weeks. 

Does this sound right, though? I like my vet, and she seems very knowledgeable, but I don't think I've ever heard of a rabbit just being fed Critical Care forever instead of hay. I'm completely willing to do it if need be, but I want to make sure that it's the right decision. Has anyone else experienced something similar?


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## Watermelons (Apr 25, 2014)

What else is he eating?
Is he eating veggies? what kind? Pellets? what kind?
Have you tried all types of hay? Different ways to offer it? Maybe you can elaborate a bit more.
Critical care is great for emergencies but definitely shouldn't be the basis of their diet. Not to mention how expensive that would be.... numerous other things could be offered well in advance of critical care.


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## rhianna (Apr 25, 2014)

He gets 1/8 cup of Oxbow pellets every day. He also gets fresh veggies weekly, but not daily because he was having stomach problems when I was giving them daily.

I've tried timothy hay, orchard grass, oat hay, and a mixed hay from a local farm. I have tried several different brands of each, including Oxbow. I am still giving him hay but he is not eating it. He usually just pulls it out of the hay rack and into the litter box and then pees on it. I've put hay in toys, tried different types of hay racks and hanging treat balls, I've put it on the floor, mixed it with treats/pellets; basically everything I could think of. He either completely ignores it, or if it's mixed with treats, he just digs through and eats all of the treats out. I've been wanting to try meadow hay but I haven't been able to find it at any stores. I have a feeling he'd just ignore that, too.

What other options would there be?


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## Watermelons (Apr 25, 2014)

What types of veggies are you offering?

Giving critical care daily is no different then you giving him pellets, except your vet is making some extra money there. 
If he can receive more veggies with a higher fiber content on a more regular basis, that will be better for him. That doesn't mean a wider variety, but if you can find 1 or 2 his tummy can handle daily that's better then a large variety once a week. 
How is his weight? you could probably bump up his pellets to 1/4 cup if you wanted.

Have you tried compressed hay blocks/cubes? or hay pellets?


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## squidpop (Apr 25, 2014)

What about feeding the next closest thing there is to Hay? Which would be fresh grass? If you have back yard you could buy meadow grass seed from a farm store and grow your own (Where I live Meadow grass is mostly Rye grass seed so grows crazy fast) I've got rabbits who live in giant enclosures outside 20 feet x 24 feet (I'm in New Zealand and there are no predators). I give them hay but I don't think they eat it- because they eat the grass all day long. All 5 of my outdoor rabbits are thriving (I also give them pellets and small amounts of other greens). I would have to look it up but I think grass has way more fiber and is it lower in calories than things like lettuce, brocoli, kale so its better for their gut. 

Also, My rabbits- even the outside ones all get excited if I fluff a big wad of hay up and put it in with them- they dive in it - dig in it - jump around in it and at least nibble it even if they are not hungry, so I'm surprised that some bunnies won't eat it.


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## rhianna (Apr 25, 2014)

I have given him romaine lettuce, various baby lettuces, spring mix, artisan lettuce, parsley, dandelion, kale, broccoli, tomato, carrot, carrot tops... I think that's it. I've found that he seems to handle lettuce, tomato, and parsley the best out of all of them, but not more often than 1-2 cups once or twice a week. Any more than that and his poop starts sticking together... 

He was 3 pound 4-6 ounces steady from when I got him in October until last month, when he went suddenly down to 2 pounds 6 ounces. Right now he's at 2 pounds 10 ounces I believe. I might bump his pellets to 1/4 cup :eats:

I actually did used to give him hay cubes when I first got him (the girl I adopted him from gave me a package of them) and I remember him really liking them. I did look for them when I ran out but couldn't find any in the stores near me. I might try hay pellets though, because he loves pellets, so I think he'd be good about eating them. Would I just free-feed the hay pellets, since they're 100% hay? Or would I limit them, like his normal pellets?

I forgot to mention that I did give him some fresh grass the other day. He gobbled it down, but then his poop was sticky. I think that it has too high of a water content for him. That's basically what happened when I was giving him fresh veggies every day; I think he's just got a sensitive tummy.


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## Chrisdoc (Apr 26, 2014)

Maybe you could try more fresh herbs which you could also grow yourself. Mine love basil, cilantro, dill, rosemary, parsley, sage, thyme, tarragon and they are all very good for bunnies. Mine also love the hay cubes but I have to wait until family visit and bring them from the UK. You can order them from the Amazon UK site, don't know where you are.


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## rhianna (Apr 26, 2014)

I live in the US. I actually found the hay cubes from Amazon. The problem is they're an add-on item, which means you have to add them to a $25 purchase in order for it to ship. They also have an option to subscribe for them, where I'd just recieve them every month. I'm going to be moving soon though so I don't want to commit to that until I have a permanent address. 

My dad actually stopped at Tractor Supply (the nearest one is 30 minutes away) to pick up this: http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/standlee-hay-certified-premium-timothy-grass-hay-pellets-40-lb he's on his way home right now. Hopefully Bear will like them (I'm confident he will) and that will be the solution. I'll update the thread once he's tried the pellets.


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## woahlookitsme (Apr 26, 2014)

All of our rabbits get free fed pellets. All of our rabbits are intact but pellets are their main diet. We haven't ever given them greens and they get hay maybe 2-3 times a week. We have 25 rabbits as we show and breed. Never had teeth issues (Our rabbit vet said if the front teeth are fine then the molars usually are as well). Butting teeth or an underbite or malocclusion are usually the only reasons a rabbit should get teeth trimmings. Its all in the genetics of the rabbit. If your rabbit has the proper overbite and is eating fine then I personally would skip out on teeth trimmings. Our teeth genetics are very good in our rabbits who dont eat hay very much. And I agree the critical care is basically like their pellets and could potentially be very expensive to give long term.


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## JBun (Apr 26, 2014)

What are these dental problems you mentioned?

Dental problems can affect a rabbits eating and may make them not want to eat certain foods that are painful to chew. Could this have something to do with your bun not wanting to eat hay?

I've used those hay pellets for a new rabbit that wasn't used to hay and wouldn't eat it. Worked out great, and eventually he started eating his hay. Long stem loose hay is better, but the hay pellets are a good substitute when loose hay isn't working.


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## rhianna (Apr 26, 2014)

Well I just got the pellets and the results aren't good. He doesn't like them. I tried mixing them with his regular pellets; he ate all of the regular pellets and ignored the hay ones. I'm going out for a few hours and leaving him nothing to eat but the hay pellets (and regular hay of course), and if he still hasn't touched them by the time I get back, then I think I'll try mixing them with a little bit of fruit baby food (that's what I did to get him eating unflavored Critical Care and it worked out great). Should that fail, then I'm not sure what to do.

@ woahlookitsme, isn't that bad for their digestion? I've always heard of rabbits needing to be fed hay as 80% of their diet, and free-feeding pellets can make them overweight. Of course you know more than me, Bear being my first rabbit and all, but I'm surprised that that would be an option.

Bear doesn't have any dental problems as far as I know but the vet wants a more in-depth look. She said that if he's not eating hay regularly, his back teeth aren't being naturally trimmed down and it can make them become overgrown. I guess it's just an assumption that if he's not eating hay to grind down his teeth, they're going to need to be trimmed regularly.


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## RebeccaJC (Apr 26, 2014)

I find it strange he wasn't fed any hay before he came to you considering its meant to be the main form of diet in a rabbit. You're right in saying that they aren't meant to be fed too many pellets and the main part of their diet should be hay. Have you tried removing the pellets from the hutch and leaving hay in there? To see if maybe he'll be more likely to try the hay if no access to pellets.. as it might be he's just used to the pellets and as you said at the beginning just grew adverse to the taste of hay? The fact he'd never been fed hay (ridiculously) and came to you at a year old.. might explain why he has this problem. He's not used to the diet at all and may not even like the taste/find it satisfying if he's been fed just a pellet diet.. and might explain his sensitive tum too! I have been feeding our 9 week old bunnies hay from the minute they started being able to eat it.. it's their natural diet and their preferred one too. As soon as i put fresh hay in they are munching away. Can you order the hay cubes online? That might be worth you looking into as online shops tend to stock them. I really hope this matter is fixed soon for you. Also.. have you maybe had thoughts of looking online for tummy care products for rabbits? You can get tummy care supplements or even probiotics to add to water and this might help his tummy troubles.


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## rhianna (Apr 26, 2014)

The person I got him from didn't know how to take care of rabbits. She'd bought him from a pet shop and had been feeding him on a seed mix his whole life, so that's why.

He only has hay 90% of the day. He inhales his pellets in the first few minutes whenever I feed them to him. He'll nibble on the hay, but usually he'll just either spit it back out or only eat a small amount. 

I've looked online for hay cubes and the only place I could find them at a reasonable price without crazy shipping costs was Amazon, and I explained above why I don't order it from them.


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## JBun (Apr 26, 2014)

Hay pellets are exactly the same ingredients as hay cubes, compressed hay. Only difference is the pellets are smaller and much easier for a rabbit to eat.

Have you ever tried alfalfa hay? It's not the best for adult rabbits because of the high calcium and protein, and shouldn't be used if there are bladder sludge problems, but rabbits tend to really like the taste of it, so it may help encourage your bun to start eating his hay.


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## rhianna (Apr 26, 2014)

For whatever reason, he liked the cubes when I had them, but he doesn't like the pellets. I found that Petco is having free shipping with no minimum right now and the cubes are a good price from them, so I think I'll order a few bags. 

I've never tried alfalfa with him that I remember but I will pick some up. I'm making a trip out to Petsmart this week and they always have tons of alfalfa in stock. If he does like the taste of it, then hopefully mixing it into his regular hay will get him eating more of it.


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## JBun (Apr 26, 2014)

If the cubes you used before were alfalfa cubes, that is probably why he liked them. If they were timothy, different batches of timothy can taste different, so a bun may love one batch but not like another(so may be why he doesn't care for the timothy pellets). If you haven't already, leave some of the timothy hay pellets out for him. He may decide he doesn't mind nibbling on them as he gets hungrier


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## woahlookitsme (Apr 26, 2014)

Hence why I said my rabbits were in tact. They also have a higher metabolism and burn energy pretty quickly. My main point was that sure if she wants to take a look at his molars she can but there are plenty of people and breeders that don't offer hay and don't have teeth or stasis issues. I know I don't see stasis issues as much in my rabbits as people who feed veggies and greens daily. Like I said before the teeth are genetic. Unless there's trauma rabbits don't really have teeth issues after their full grown. Teeth issues are developed when they are younger or if there has been trauma


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## rhianna (Apr 27, 2014)

The cubes are these: http://www.petco.com/Shop/Product.aspx?sku=712876MP2 I just read the ingredients and they do, indeed, contain alfalfa. That's very likely why he ate them so willingly. 

I mixed a little bit of natural fruit baby food with the pellets (1 tsp for about 1 cup pellets) and he's been nibbling on them here and there. Mostly he's just digging them all over the place in search of the fruit that he smells, but he has been eating a couple of them. The pellets are large and very compressed so it probably doesn't take more than a few of them to fill him up. His poop has actually gone completely back to normal since he's been nibbling them (it was alright before, but he hasn't pooped this much in about a month) so that's a very good sign. 

I see what you're saying, woahlookitsme, about the teeth issues. Bear hasn't been showing signs of tooth problems so I think he'll probably be fine. I do want to have them checked thoroughly just to be safe, though. 

Bear is intact as well. He doesn't get a whole lot of exercise (he's really just lazy, plus he currently only has my small room, which isn't really enough space to run around unfortunately) but he obviously has a high metabolism. He's been nothing but skin and bones since I got him.


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## JBun (Apr 27, 2014)

woahlookitsme said:


> Hence why I said my rabbits were in tact. They also have a higher metabolism and burn energy pretty quickly. My main point was that sure if she wants to take a look at his molars she can but there are plenty of people and breeders that don't offer hay and don't have teeth or stasis issues. I know I don't see stasis issues as much in my rabbits as people who feed veggies and greens daily. Like I said before the teeth are genetic. Unless there's trauma rabbits don't really have teeth issues after their full grown. Teeth issues are developed when they are younger or if there has been trauma



There is actually a study that was done that linked dental problems directly to the diet the rabbits were fed. If I remember right, one group was fed muesli, another pellets and hay, and another hay only. I think all rabbits in the muesli group developed dental problems, and none of the rabbits developed dental issues in the hay only group. I'll have to see if I can find the study, it was pretty interesting. I don't think there was a pellet only group though.

I know many rabbit owners feed pellets only, without any problems. In fact I used to a while back. But with my rabbits now I can't imagine doing that and not feeding hay. I feed a pretty restricted amount of pellets along with unlimited hay, and whenever I have tried to increase pellet quantities past a certain point, my rabbits start to either get some mushy poop or their poop starts to get really small, indicating a gut slowdown from not enough fiber. This has been tried with several different varieties of pellets. Maybe I just have rabbits with extra sensitive digestive systems, but I just can't imagine feeding only pellets and not hay anymore. Just wouldn't work out at all for my current buns.

When accounting for GI issues with pet rabbits vs. breeding rabbits, you also have to keep in mind that each rabbit will have a very different living environment. Pet rabbits that are living in a home, will be exposed to many more foreign objects that a breeding rabbit in a controlled environment wouldn't be exposed to. So what may appear to be a higher occurrence of GI issues in pet rabbits, may not always have to do with diet but other foreign objects a rabbit might ingest while hopping around a home.


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## rhianna (Apr 27, 2014)

Well Bear's getting a bit better about eating the pellets today. I woke up to about half of them gone, and I just refilled the bowl and he's snacking on them without needing me to mix them with baby food like I'd done to begin with. I'm going to feed him nothing but hay and hay pellets for the next few days because that seems to be the trick for getting him to eat them. Hopefully then he'll start to like them. 

The litter box is practically filled with little bunny poops now. I'm so happy to see this. The hay pellets really are working wonders with him. I don't think I've seen this much perfectly round bunny poop in my life :clapping::litterhealthy: It's crazy what you get excited over when you're a bunny owner.

I also just ordered 3 pounds of the timothy cubes, because I found them for $2.99/pound on drsfostersmith.com which is awesome. I'm going to try the alfalfa trick to maybe get him eating regular hay, but honestly I'm satisfied enough with the hay pellets right now.


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## Chrisdoc (Apr 27, 2014)

Haha, it is amazing how excited we get about well formed bunny poop. Glad to see he's eating better and producing perfect poops


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## missyscove (Apr 28, 2014)

I think they also sell hay cubes for horses, and probably in larger quantities so that might be something for you to look into if you're having luck with that. Since he's lost so much weight I'd definitely up his pellet ration to help him gain that back (assuming he was at a healthy weight before and is underweight now vs. overweight before).


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## majorv (Apr 28, 2014)

If he's been 'skin and bones' since you got him and he's since lost weight, then, personally, I don't think you should withdraw his pellets for a few days to try and make him eat more hay...unless you're continuing the critical care during that time. As you mentioned in an earlier post, you should probably up his pellets to 1/4 cup and just find the right type of hay he'll eat. Hay is roughage but doesn't provide the nutrition that pellets do.


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## Watermelons (Apr 28, 2014)

I think every things been covered in here all ready.

Up his pellets.
Find some hay cubes. If he's that underweight alfalfa cubes would be just fine. However trying to find timothy cubes would be nice as well as once hes of adequate weight he doesn't need the extra calcium and protein the alfalfa will provide. What pellets was he on? (Alfalfa based or timothy based? protein %?) Again these can almost always be purchased from any farm/tractor supply store. 
Fresh greens are beneficial. No not all people provide them. But their not bad. Lots of things you can do to limit the amount and ensure hes getting some roughage from them. Nix the fruit and try and find more hearty leafy greens rather then the more common "lighter" ones IMO like romaine I find to be a bit watery compared to red/green leaf, etc. Try Cilantro as well.


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## rhianna (Apr 28, 2014)

Thank you all for the advice. I'll continue his regular pellets at 1/4 cup now. He was healthy weight before and is now underweight. He's been gaining slowly since I was giving him the Critical Care but I've stopped giving it to him since people on this thread said that I should. He's eating great amounts of hay pellets so hopefully he will continue eating them along with his regular pellets.

I could only find alfalfa cubes in a large amount, but if when I run out of the 3 pounds of timothy ones I just ordered he's still underweight, then I'll probably go to Tractor Supply and get the alfalfa ones. I'm also planning on going to Petsmart probably on Wednesday where I'll pick up some alfalfa hay. 

He gets Oxbow Bunny Basics Timothy pellets. This is the variety that was recommended by my vet.


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## DartANrun (May 21, 2014)

rhianna said:


> I forgot to mention that I did give him some fresh grass the other day. He gobbled it down, but then his poop was sticky. I think that it has too high of a water content for him. That's basically what happened when I was giving him fresh veggies every day; I think he's just got a sensitive tummy.


 
Maybe cut the grass, tie it at it's base and hang it to let it dry out some. You might have to experiment to see how dry it can get and still be attractive for him. You could probably keep increasing the drying time before feeding until it is hay and then mix in regular hay.


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## Ebunn (May 22, 2014)

Is your bunn eating his hay yet? If not, I would suggest your vet anesthetize him and take a very, very good, thorough look at his back teeth. He might have a misalignment or some other problem that makes it difficult for him to chew hay properly. Especially if he already has trouble with his incisors which could throw off the way the molars grind against each other. Watch him carefully when he eats things that are similar in shape to hay to see if he looks like he takes extra time trying to maneuver things in his mouth. 

And as far as his incisors, if they are truly misaligned, a good rabbit vet should be able to shape the teeth in a manner that would help work the alignment back in place, rather than just trim/clip them. If they angle the bevel properly, it will eventually get things back to normal after a few shaping sessions.

And yes, generally misaligned incisors is a genetic thing, but I've seen adults develop this after an accident or even from a severe case of chronic, consistent yanking/pulling too hard on the cage bars. 

Good luck!


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## Courtney88 (May 29, 2014)

My little one (now almost 3 so I guess not so little anymore) didn't eat hay at all for the first 2 years we had him. He's finally starting to eat little bits of hay lately, and the brand that I've found he likes is Sweet Meadow Hay. Our vet recommended Oxbow (which I buy as well) but Snowball only eats the Sweet Meadow one for some reason. Try different brands of hay because there has to be one that your rabbit will like at some point! Good luck!


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