# Any homeless Angoras in S.F. Bay Area?



## DogCatMom (Sep 2, 2013)

I've visited two rabbit rescues in the East Bay who said they had Angoras. One had an Angora who was bonded to a large lionhead; when I asked to see the other "Angoras" (on the phone, this rescue had said they had seven in residence), I was told they were all eating, and that they had to eat then because the woman who had shown up "had brought all their food." I feel odd continuing to develop a relationship with a rescue which seems not to have food on the premises, and haven't returned.

The other rescue, the local contact of a large national group, showed me a sweet little white rabbit who seems to be an Angora mix of some kind, or maybe a mix of another long-haired breed. In any case, her coat was wispy and thin. I asked whether she was rebuilding her coat after a seasonal cut-down, maybe...? The volunteer was horrified and said, "We never touch her with anything other than a comb and brush!" I could have run a Resco fine comb through her coat backwards without any resistance; there was simply no coat on her.

I've been following the northern California shelters and rabbit-focused rescue groups online for a month. No one has had an Angora of any breed (even the Sacramento SPCA never showed Angora photos; now they have only six rabbit photos). The closest Angoras that Petfinder could show me, both in early August and last Friday (August 30), were in Salem, Oregon, and Chino, California--each approx. 10 hours away.

Does anyone know of Angoras in northern California looking for a home? I have plenty of grooming experience with long-haired dogs and cats (3 years in grooming shops plus volunteer grooming at two humane societies, plus my own lifelong cats and 15 years of Bernese Mtn. Dogs). I have all the grooming toys/tools anyone could ever need.

But I've been unable to find a rescue/rehome Angora rabbit. I'm used to getting my pets from the humane society (cats), directly rescuing off the street (cats), from friends (cats), and from breed-specific rescue (dogs), so going to a breeder feels very...odd.

Should I just get over it and look to breeders for this particular kind of rabbit? 

New to the forum; not sure whether asking this question in Rescue is OK. Will drive up to 6 hours one way to pick up an Angora in need (my same driving distance as for cats and dogs).

Thank you!


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## Bonsai (Sep 2, 2013)

You could see if breeders have any older does/bucks they're looking to rehome. That'd... Sorta be rescuing? Lol. I dunno. I've went to breeders for 2 of my buns and they were fantastic. I think rescues and breeders alike are wonderful sources of our furry friends. I would go to a rescue but my local ones are VERY picky. By very picky, I mean it is nearly impossible for anyone to adopt from them unless they have no other pets at all, which I don't think is right but moving on!

I'd keep looking in rescues since you feel comfortable with rescues the most.  Call around, check for humane societies in bordering counties. Petfinder is so unreliable... May I also suggest going on Facebook and finding local societies that take in rabbits/are rabbit-only rescues. Sometimes, those cats/rabbits/dogs don't make it onto Petfinder - they're advertised on FB, though! Just a thought. 

You could also call your local animal control. Rabbits are sometimes taken there. Why, I have no clue.


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## Korr_and_Sophie (Sep 2, 2013)

Angoras are more rare in rescues and that is a good thing. 
You could try contacting rescues and telling them you are looking for an angora. They might have a waiting list and if they hear of one, they will contact you. 
Keep looking at shelters and rescues. Many have facebook pages and might post on there if there are rabbit in need that they don't have yet or are not yet up for adoption. 
Craigslist can be an option, but it can be hit and miss. You might find an angora who needs a home but is not in a rescue. You can usually search these sites so you don't have to look through tons of ads. 

If you are patient, you probably will find one. It too me some 6 months to find an angora and the rescue was 12 hours away (transport just happened to work out). 

Breeders do tend to be picky about where their rabbits go, or at least the good ones are. Most do require you do meet them and even learn some angora grooming. The prices to reflect the care needed and can help deter people who are not serious. They tend to have seen angoras who are not well cared for and want to avoid their rabbits ending up like that.


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## missyscove (Sep 2, 2013)

Hi and welcome to RO!
I know the bunny bunch rescue I adopted my Cricket from has a pair of angoras on their website (although Cricket stayed up for a few months so no promises they actually still have them), but they're in southern California.

What sparked your interest in angoras?


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## kaosu (Sep 2, 2013)

I rescued my angora from Craigslist but we did not expect an angora...and he was a rescue...saved from a family who was going to throw him out to the coyotes cuz the kids never delt with him, the lady I got him rescued him from that situation not knowing his breed, posted him on CL as free larger rabbit and cage. I picked him up for a b-day present to my self and oh boy was he in bad shape...we shaved 2 lbs of old wool off of him that was a solid mass..poor guy and he was under weight. He is fat and happy and groomed now and we have had him for about 6-7 months. 

Good luck on your search they are lovely sweet amazing bunnies but they need ALLOT of attention and time.


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## DogCatMom (Sep 3, 2013)

missyscove said:


> Hi and welcome to RO!
> I know the bunny bunch rescue I adopted my Cricket from has a pair of angoras on their website (although Cricket stayed up for a few months so no promises they actually still have them), but they're in southern California.
> 
> What sparked your interest in angoras?



I'm a spinner, but what cinched my desire to bring a bunny home is that while looking into what they eat, I found out that they like blackberry canes and leaves, as well as rose prunings as part of their diet; and also the weeds/native plants groundsel, _plantago lanceolata_, dandelions, and dark green leafy veg's. I grow the dark green leafy veg's for DH and me to eat, and the other plants grow without much help from me. All gardening is non-chemical (i.e., organic). 

If a bunny would like to eat them rather than me throw the blackberry canes _et al. _into the yard-waste container (I can't compost the blackberry canes or rose prunings; they'll self-propagate in the compost bin) and in return give me wonderful hair to comb, pet, spin, ooh and aah over, etc., *and* provide nice compost pellets  too, who am I to say no?

I lost my 13-year, 4-month-old Bernese Mtn. Dog female on July 25. Taking care of her during her last several months was very time-consuming, but I wouldn't have missed a minute of it and wouldn't have minded it continuing for many more months.... *sigh* 

But, a couple of weeks after she transitioned, I realized that this might be the time to consider adding a rabbit (or two, if Rabbit #1 has or wants a friend) to the household. It had been in the back of my mind for a long time, and now that I wasn't 

--spending 2 to 3 hours each day hand-feeding, individually preparing and offering foods which might or might not be accepted, etc. (it was just a very slow process each day),
--taking LittleGirl up the stairs and back down with the help of a body sling each time, and 
--keeping a keen ear out for whatever she might need while I was working here at home,

I would have my best opportunity at giving an Angora (or even two of them) the care it/they require(s). 

My *only* rock-bottom requirements are that the rabbit(s) actually be Angora(s) and that, if there are two of them, they *not* be a fertile couple. I do not want to deal with baby bunnies. 

So I would like a male or a female *or* two females who get along *or* two males who get along. If a male and a female Angora need a new home together, at least one of them will need to have the plumbing "de-activated." ;-)

I've always found brushing my cats and dogs to be nice, quiet, bonding time. Why wouldn't it be that way with bunnies? I look forward to it, quite honestly.


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## DogCatMom (Sep 3, 2013)

kaosu said:


> I rescued my angora from Craigslist but we did not expect an angora...and he was a rescue...saved from *a family who was going to throw him out to the coyotes cuz the kids never delt with him*, the lady I got him rescued him from that situation not knowing his breed, posted him on CL as free larger rabbit and cage. I picked him up for a b-day present to my self and oh boy was he in bad shape...we shaved 2 lbs of old wool off of him that was a solid mass..poor guy and he was under weight. He is fat and happy and groomed now and we have had him for about 6-7 months.
> 
> Good luck on your search they are lovely sweet amazing bunnies but they need ALLOT of attention and time.



The cruelty of some people never fails to astonish me. I've been active in Bernese Mtn. Dog rescue for 15 years, and the stories of these dogs are enough to turn anyone into an anti-social hermit who takes up living in a cave. And these are large dogs! (But one of the ones we took in had been abandoned by her family; they moved and simply left her behind in her old neighborhood--no food, no water, no nothing.)

What people do to smaller animals--cats, rabbits--staggers the imagination. I'm so glad this bunny came to live with you--that you were the one who took him home and helped him out. Karma/Fate knows the good you've done for him (and others). Is there a photo of him available on this website?


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## DogCatMom (Sep 3, 2013)

Bonsai said:


> You could see if breeders have any older does/bucks they're looking to rehome. That'd... Sorta be rescuing? Lol. I dunno. I've went to breeders for 2 of my buns and they were fantastic. I think rescues and breeders alike are wonderful sources of our furry friends. I would go to a rescue but my local ones are VERY picky. By very picky, I mean it is nearly impossible for anyone to adopt from them unless they have no other pets at all, which I don't think is right but moving on!
> 
> I'd keep looking in rescues since you feel comfortable with rescues the most.  Call around, check for humane societies in bordering counties. Petfinder is so unreliable... May I also suggest going on Facebook and finding local societies that take in rabbits/are rabbit-only rescues. Sometimes, those cats/rabbits/dogs don't make it onto Petfinder - they're advertised on FB, though! Just a thought.
> 
> You could also call your local animal control. Rabbits are sometimes taken there. Why, I have no clue.



Good points, several of them.

--I plan to attend an Angora show in two weeks (September 14) reasonably close to where I live. I'll be able (I hope!) to meet and talk with a few Angora breeders--at least _after_ the Breed judging. I can ask then about older rabbits perhaps being retired from breeding but whose coats are still wonderful for spinning.

--Yes, it's true; sometimes rescues are their own worst enemies when trying to place animals. There are no "qualified" homes; just incredibly excellent ones!

--"Check for humane societies in bordering counties." Just to make sure I didn't hit the same websites twice last Friday, I wrote all of them down. I looked at 38 websites: Petfinder, 9 rabbit-focused rescue groups or alliances, and 28 municipal or county animal control or SPCA or humane societies. The most distant SPCA/animal control/humane society was El Dorado County (Placerville and South Lake Tahoe venues) to the northeast, Sonoma County to the northwest, Santa Cruz County to the southwest, and San Joaquin County to the southeast. Most of the rabbit groups pulled from counties even further away than some of these.

--I do not belong to Facebook. My personal information is not available to Mark Zuckerberg for his money-making purposes. This is an inconvenience to me, I know, but not nearly as much as giving someone else the power to make money off of my private life.

--I also emailed "the rabbit vet" at the vet practice I've gone to for a long time for my own animals. He said that, basically, I've covered the ground in the Bay Area and northern California, and that I'll either need to wait for an indefinite period of time for "the magic rabbit" to appear in rescue or suck it up (just about what he said!) and go to the September 14 show.

Thank you for helping out!


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## Bonsai (Sep 3, 2013)

DogCatMom said:


> Good points, several of them.
> 
> --I plan to attend an Angora show in two weeks (September 14) reasonably close to where I live. I'll be able (I hope!) to meet and talk with a few Angora breeders--at least _after_ the Breed judging. I can ask then about older rabbits perhaps being retired from breeding but whose coats are still wonderful for spinning.
> 
> ...



Of course! I'm glad I could help.  The older rabbits tend to only be maybe 2~3 years old. Really about the same age you would probably find them in a shelter, too. Because rabbits breed so easily and quickly, most rabbitries have more than enough bucks and wouldn't mind sparing a few. They should still have great wool, too! Females produce more than males, though. You may be able to get a doe, too, though!

Seems like you're covering all your bases! I wish you luck on finding your perfect fuzzy lumpkin.


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## Korr_and_Sophie (Sep 3, 2013)

DogCatMom said:


> So I would like a male or a female *or* two females who get along *or* two males who get along. If a male and a female Angora need a new home together, at least one of them will need to have the plumbing "de-activated." ;-)



Rabbits can be spayed or neutered. Rabbits not used for breeding or show should be done. If you were to bond them, ideally both should be altered as hormones can cause problems in a relationship. Even if you only get one, it is a good idea to get them one. Most rescues will get it done before the rabbit is adopted. Some breeds may require it for pet rabbits, but most don't. It can be expensive to get done, but that really depends on the vets in your area. Females can range from $100 to $400. 

It sounds like whatever rabbit you get will be spoiled.


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## Nancy McClelland (Sep 3, 2013)

The home base for House Rabbit Rescue is in Richmond, a short distance across the bay from you. Try giving them a call--they were always very helpful when we lived in N Cali.


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## kaosu (Sep 3, 2013)

DogCatMom said:


> The cruelty of some people never fails to astonish me. I've been active in Bernese Mtn. Dog rescue for 15 years, and the stories of these dogs are enough to turn anyone into an anti-social hermit who takes up living in a cave. And these are large dogs! (But one of the ones we took in had been abandoned by her family; they moved and simply left her behind in her old neighborhood--no food, no water, no nothing.)
> 
> What people do to smaller animals--cats, rabbits--staggers the imagination. I'm so glad this bunny came to live with you--that you were the one who took him home and helped him out. Karma/Fate knows the good you've done for him (and others). Is there a photo of him available on this website?



yes here is his blog..pics from day one to current ^_^ 
He is my first bunny...and allot more work than i had expected with that coat but i would not trade him for anything..he is a sweet heart and fearless!!..there is videos of him playing ball with my dog . 

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f18/titan-73075/


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## DogCatMom (Sep 3, 2013)

Nancy McClelland said:


> The home base for House Rabbit Rescue is in Richmond, a short distance across the bay from you. Try giving them a call--they were always very helpful when we lived in N Cali.



In my original post, I described my experience at their place: 'The other rescue, the local contact of a large national group, showed me a sweet little white rabbit who seems to be an Angora mix of some kind, or maybe a mix of another long-haired breed. In any case, her coat was wispy and thin. I asked whether she was rebuilding her coat after a seasonal cut-down, maybe...? The volunteer was horrified and said, "We never touch her with anything other than a comb and brush!" I could have run a Resco fine comb through her coat backwards without any resistance; there was simply no coat on her.'

HRS is actually on my side of the bay.  Their breed identification skills were...ah...somewhat suspect. The bunny was very shy and, even after sitting in an ex-pen with her for 30 minutes, wasn't comfortable with me touching her _at all_, much less petting her. When I did manage to touch her (to check her coat) as she _zzzooommed_ past, the coat was indeed wispy and thin. There was no undercoat to be felt.

If I had been looking for a lop or a dwarf or a regular upright-eared bunny or spotted-coat bunny, yes, HRS had them in singles, pairs, and one bonded trio (littermates, maybe?). Sadly, they had no Angora, either onsite or being fostered offsite.

I didn't dare tell them that I actually wanted to spin Angora fur or that my bunny would not have his/her very own bedroom. While I sat in the ex-pen with the bunny, their DVD played, showing an "ideal" space for a House Rabbit Society house rabbit, which looked like its own bedroom with access to the whole house. Any rabbit(s) I adopt will need to share my home office with ME. The room has the best sunlight in the house and probably the best ventilation, too, but the DVD made this sunny, well-ventilated, clean room seem like ... something the HRS would consider sub-standard.

Maybe I incorrectly interpreted the DVD; I had another appointment to go to and didn't watch the last 10 minutes of the 40-minute film. But the whole session went weirdly:

--on the phone the day before, I made an appointment to arrive between 1:00 and 1:15
--upon my timely arrival, it took me approx. 10 minutes to be admitted into the locked house. I had finished my third attempt at the back door (the front door having been a complete loss), and had turned around to return to my car and leave, when someone *finally* answered the back door
--whereupon the volunteers told me that "every day" they vacuum from noon to 1:30
--thus (evidently) making it impossible for them to hear the doorbells (front *or* back) from 1:00 to 1:15
--and jangling Bunny's nerves all to pieces because she's very "nervous and shy"
--and, per my earlier statement, they mis-identified Bunny's breed

Bunny has been there for many months. I wonder why? Even if someone isn't a spinner and just wants a nice, petite (not dwarf), pettable white rabbit, making this little girl so nervous each and every day just as soon as they open up, the very time that potential adopters could come to see her, makes it impossible for Bunny to show her best self.

I asked whether they ever considered vacuuming at the _end_ of the day, so the bunnies would have more hours when they would "show" better. You would've thought that I was suggesting throwing them into traffic or something.... :rollseyes

One of the volunteers identified herself as the woman I had spoken with on the phone the day before to make the appointment to see Bunny. No awareness of the impossibility of the position she had put me in seemed to cross her mind, except to say, "Oh! We were watching a video in the office with the door closed because of the vacuuming and couldn't hear the doorbell." ::headdesk::

So...is this lack of organization endemic, or did I get this group of HRS volunteers on a bad day? It was *very discouraging*, coming as it did after a previous in-person visit to another disorganized local rabbit rescue....


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Sep 3, 2013)

If you're looking for a specific breed of any kind, I highly recommend making contact with local breeders in your area - especially for a breed like an Angora. Angoras have very specific coat requirements, so a long-haired rabbit of unknown history is not the best option if you're interested in harvesting and using the wool. That trait has to be bred for.

I'll be honest with you, your experiences with rabbit rescues are not uncommon. Many dog or cat rescues (especially breed-specific ones) are operated by very knowledgeable, experienced groups or individuals. It is difficult to find that compliment in the rabbit world - breed identification being the first clue. I understand that, in many cases, the breed may not "matter" as much to everyday care requirements. But it's unnerving, to me, that an "authority" on rabbits isn't able to correctly identify different breeds.

There are reputable rescue options available. But for a need this unique and specific, your best option is a breeder. 

You may find some through a search on www.arba.net, but even just a Google search for people in your area may turn up a match.


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## RabbitGirl101 (Sep 3, 2013)

OakRidgeRabbits said:


> *If you're looking for a specific breed of any kind, I highly recommend making contact with local breeders in your area - especially for a breed like an Angora. Angoras have very specific coat requirements, so a long-haired rabbit of unknown history is not the best option if you're interested in harvesting and using the wool. That trait has to be bred for.*
> 
> I'll be honest with you, your experiences with rabbit rescues are not uncommon. Many dog or cat rescues (especially breed-specific ones) are operated by very knowledgeable, experienced groups or individuals. It is difficult to find that compliment in the rabbit world - breed identification being the first clue. I understand that, in many cases, the breed may not "matter" as much to everyday care requirements. But it's unnerving, to me, that an "authority" on rabbits isn't able to correctly identify different breeds.
> 
> ...


I agree with Oak Ridge Rabbits I would look into getting a rabbit from a breeder that you can pick out. You will be able to choose male or female and you can choose to spay/neuter. OakRidge also pointed out some key points in how some traits have to be bred for. I would contact a local angora breeder. (You would have to choose which angora breed you wanted, there is an English, satin, french and giant angora)


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## DogCatMom (Sep 3, 2013)

Thank you both, *OakRidgeRabbits* and *RabbitGirl101*. 

I made a second try at the local rabbit rescue (not HRS) this afternoon. I had a bag full of toilet-paper tubes to deliver for "hay stuffed toys"; I've donated tubes for seven years, more or less.

I walked in; it's a small storefront, pretty jam-packed with ex-pens and pet supplies. They rescue rabbits, guinea pigs, hamsters, and rats. Maybe other animals, too; I'm not sure. But nothing with feathers; I can say that with certainty (I'm absolutely allergic to feather dust/dander). 

The "usual crew" of middle-school girls and one high-school boy were cleaning the ex-pens; a young woman in her early 20s was at the register; another woman, who may have been a volunteer, a potential adopter, or a customer, was also there. I very nearly couldn't get in the door due to boxes dropped in the narrow walking path. 

Register staffer: "Sorry! We *just* had a delivery!" 

Me: "Ah, OK. [picking my way around the boxes--both of my knees have been replaced due to complications of a car accident] Here are some tubes for the bunnies. How's the Angora situation?" [I've made a previous extended visit, the infamous "she brings all their food" incident]

Staffer: "Well, Bunny is here." [indicating]

Me: "Oh! is she an Angora? [approaching the cage, holding the back of my hand against the front of the cage] By the way, the last time I was here, you said that the woman volunteer 'brings all the rabbits' food.' Does that mean there's no food for them here?"

Whereupon, the staffer explained that the rabbits *always* have hay and water; the volunteer brought all the _veggies_, which "must be fresh every day." I said that there seems to be a lot of variation in advice regarding what rabbits need to eat, since 95% hay + 5% veggies was "quite different" from some of the other recommendations I was finding in my reading, which were hay + veggies + pellets. She hand-waved the pellets away, saying that those were "for rabbits who...don't live too long, like *feeders and breeders*." [her words exactly] But, for a long life, "rabbits should eat 95% hay and 5% veggies." (Note: The HRS recommends "very limited quantities of...perfectly plain ones.")

I was still standing at Bunny's cage, my hand against the front of the cage. She had come to the front to smell my hand. 

A woman and her daughter came in the front door of the store and were stymied by the boxes. Staffer loudly told them which bag(s) of litter _of the same brand_ to buy, saying that some were and others weren't in the system due to the delivery, and then directed mother/daughter to the register. Another mother/child duo followed them in; same treatment--no waiting.

I was *still* waiting at the rabbit cage. 

I waited long enough to see that I was in fact NOT going to meet Bunny today, or at least within a reasonable time frame. I waded through the throng (yes, four people in this narrow passageway was a throng) to the front door, turned around, and asked, "What time is good to visit a rabbit?" Staffer looked at me--no apology or anything--and said, "Well, calling in advance is good."

Now, if I HAD called in advance today, the same thing would've happened: there was only one non-worker there when I arrived. Calling ahead doesn't keep other people from arriving, and it doesn't keep deliveries from being made. It does very little for the chronic lack of organization I've experienced here (trust me on this one; I detailed it on another rabbit forum, but I was there for 90 minutes on August 2 and they managed to show me only two of an alleged seven "Angora" rabbits they had in residence).

So there I was, a live, willing, potential adopter, ignored by a putative "rabbit rescue."

Yep.

Re. breeds of Angora rabbits: I know that there are four breeds, but my ideal Angora bunny doesn't seem to exist anymore. In the late '80s or early '90s, I saw a demonstration of spinning at a quilt show in Marin County. Two women had English Angoras on their laps and were plucking fur and drafting it directly from the rabbits onto the spinning wheels. The rabbits were practically purring. All you could see was a little nose in all the fluff. It was incredibly sweet!

But...
1) English Angoras now are almost all shear-only, not plucked, coats.
2) French Angoras are shorter-coated with more guard hair than English.
3) Satin Angoras have yet more guard hair than French.
4) Giant Angoras were developed as a plucked breed (per an email exchange with Louise Walsh) but are now a shear-only breed? This is a point of confusion for me w/regard to Giants.

ARBA lists only five breeders of Giants in the U.S., and the breeder of English Angoras nearest to me is the breeder who developed the shear-only characteristic.

If I'm going to be driven into Breeder Land by Rescues who just don't have it together--even well-known national rescues--then I'll say it right here: what I would LOVE TO HAVE is a pluck-able English *or* Giant. 

Failing that, I prefer the pluck-able characteristic over other breed characteristics (body style, clean face vs. hair on face/ear tassels, etc.). Using either scissors or clippers gives hairs of multiple lengths in each group/clump/lock, whereas plucking ensures that no hairs have blunt or "square" ends and no hairs are shorter than others except as Nature has intended. In spinning, fibers of uniform or nearly uniform length are much easier to deal with than the mixtures of short/long fibers which scissoring or clippering would produce.

BTW, it was the other staffer at the local rescue, a woman perhaps in her 50s or 60s, who told me a year ago that "Angoras come into rescue quite often." :rollseyes Maybe they do, elsewhere in the U.S.? but in the six weeks I've been looking diligently, no dice in northern California or anywhere within a 6-hour drive.


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## Korr_and_Sophie (Sep 3, 2013)

Going to a coat that doesn't pluck is more for show. A pluckable coat moults and many would moult every 3-4 months. This can make it hard to show them in a fuller coat if it keeps moulting. A rabbit with normal fur will get back into condition fairly quick, but an angora can take a couple months for the wool to grow back. The rabbits you see with a really long coat don't moult which is why the coat can get that long. I am not sure how the long coat translates to spinning and if a longer fibre helps. 

Giant Angoras are rare, I like one of the top 5 rarest breeds in North America. ARBA doesn't list all breeders, just those who pay to be listed. Even breed clubs don't list them all, again the breeder has to say they want to be listed. Many giants are mixed with German angoras and there is some confusion between the 2 breeds (2 large, mostly REW angora breeds can be a bit confusing at times). 

I like the Giants and English for the fluffy face and ear tassels. I don't really keep them for the wool though, so can't really comment too much on that. 

I would suggest trying to find some breeders and see what they might have. They might have a rabbit that has wool that can be plucked and that is not desirable for them, so they may offer it for sale. Some breeders don't update their website too often or don't list everything. Even if they don't have something now, they might later to know someone who does. Local breeder clubs can be a good resource to finding a breeder. 

Since I got my first angora, I have seem maybe 5 in the 2 local shelters and that has been about 4.5 years. They don't come along often, at least not here.


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## Troller (Sep 4, 2013)

When I was looking for Flemish originally I had similar issues. The rescues say they have Flemish, but they were mostly mixes of misidentified New Zealand's. All I wanted was a Flemish, which I know was selfish but that's what got me interested in rabbits in the first place so my first pet rabbit had to be that. Also the rescues had some clauses that made it difficult for me to adopt. I dont think I would have been turned down necessarily but the extra hoops I'd have to jump through made it made the idea even less appealing.

So I went through a breeder and I'm very glad I did. They were very knolwedgable, extremely helpful before and after purchase, and they raised beautiful rabbits. Now in my experience in looking for a breeder I realzed that some of the best ones didn't advertise so the best way to find them was to check clubs and more importantly the breed sweepstakes some have. From the sweepstakes I got to know who raises goo rabbits but more importantly through that I got a bit of word of mouth who's good to deal with and who's not. Now I don't know ahout other breeds, but if the Flemish group is any indication they're a close knit and friendly bunch. 

I'm not saying my search amongst breeders was all positive but it was in the end fruitful and genuinely fun and i got two beautiful rabbits. I also realized that I like knowing the history of my rabbits lines (i'm always asking about the siblings, something I'm sure the breeders are getting tired of answering) and if there is anything in their behaviors or health they are predisposed to (and found out that yes my rabbits keep to some of their parental traits). I wish you luck in you Angora endeavors and hope you get equally as lucky as I did.


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Sep 4, 2013)

Angoras rarely come into rescues, so whoever said "quite often" probably doesn't know what they're talking about. It's unusual to find a "backyard breeder" of Angoras because they require such extensive care and attention. And for the same reason, breeders are very, very choosy about who they sell to - many won't sell to pet owners.

When you do approach breeders, tell them about your plans to spin and use the wool. Talking to them at a show would be great, because it shows that you've done the research and know what you're getting into. It wouldn't be unusual for someone to ignore an email as "just another pet person." Unfortunately, that does happen because it is extremely difficult to find people who will listen to a breeder about care requirements, etc. Too many people turn directly to "other sources" that provide incorrect, or even dangerous information.


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## DogCatMom (Sep 4, 2013)

OakRidgeRabbits said:


> Angoras rarely come into rescues, so whoever said "quite often" probably doesn't know what they're talking about.


As I have since learned. Another question I had planned to ask yesterday was re. the quarantine practices of the local rabbit rescue: Do they rely on the shelters they spring the rabbits from, or do they perform independent QT? But of course that opportunity never arose.



OakRidgeRabbits said:


> It's unusual to find a "backyard breeder" of Angoras because they require such extensive care and attention.


Well, at least that's good to know! BYBs in the dog world = people who haven't researched their breedings = overpopulation and (IMHO) ruination of traditionally respectable breeds like Doberman Pinschers, Rottweilers, Dalmatians, and other "movie" breeds.



OakRidgeRabbits said:


> And for the same reason, breeders are very, very choosy about who they sell to - many won't sell to pet owners.


I'm framing my desire for an Angora as a "working" rabbit, like my working dog, the Bernese Mtn. Dog. The rabbit will provide fiber and compost for me, I will provide it with home-grown veggies, rose prunings, blackberry canes and leaves, hay, whatever diet and extras the breeder recommends for her/his lines. The bunny compost will be used on the raised beds where the veggies grow. Mr. or Ms. Angora will be in the house and will receive lots of attention; s/he will *not* be in an outbuilding. (I can also provide names from the vet practice I've gone to for absolute ages, and the names of the grooming shops I worked at as well as the two humane societies I volunteered at.)



OakRidgeRabbits said:


> When you do approach breeders, tell them about your plans to spin and use the wool.


Definitely. 



OakRidgeRabbits said:


> Talking to them at a show would be great, because it shows that you've done the research and know what you're getting into.


There's an Angora-only show just over an hour away on September 14. 



OakRidgeRabbits said:


> It wouldn't be unusual for someone to ignore an email as "just another pet person."


Louise Walsh, who developed the Giant Angora breed, responded immediately to my email asking about breed differences btw Giants and Germans. I was pleasantly surprised as well as impressed.



OakRidgeRabbits said:


> Unfortunately, that does happen because it is extremely difficult to find people who will listen to a breeder about care requirements, etc. Too many people turn directly to "other sources" that provide incorrect, or even dangerous information.


This happens a lot in the Berner world, too, and is one of the paths by which young (<2.5 yr old) Berners end up in Rescue. "I didn't know the puppy would get so big/be so energetic/high-energy!" It makes me wonder, What about "females 70 to 90 lb, males 80 to 125 lb, train puppies early and in multiple obedience classes" makes them think this will be a small dog who doesn't need training?! 
Re. Angoras: why would someone think a long-haired rabbit wouldn't need brushing/combing/regular coat care?!

Thank you again.


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## DogCatMom (Sep 4, 2013)

Troller said:


> When I was looking for Flemish originally I had similar issues. The rescues say they have Flemish, but they were mostly mixes of misidentified New Zealand's. All I wanted was a Flemish, which I know was selfish but that's what got me interested in rabbits in the first place so my first pet rabbit had to be that. ... I wish you luck in you Angora endeavors and hope you get equally as lucky as I did.


If there's something about the personality or other characteristics of the Flemish (Giant?) that attracted you, then that was the rabbit for you. Bernese Mtn. Dogs are the only breed of dog I've ever had; I didn't grow up with dogs, just cats, so when we decided to add a dog to the household, I researched dogs--breeds, grooming, size, compatibility with cats, etc.--and narrowed it down to three breeds. Then, the Fates brought us a Berner through Rescue, and Berners it has been ever since.

Thank you for your good wishes re. Angora success. 

This discussion and others I've had on another rabbit forum, plus my experiences searching online and in person, are all pointing in the same direction: Go to a show. Talk to breeders. I resisted this advice at first, hoping that--as in the case of my (lifetime) twenty or so cats and my (lifetime) nine foster and live-in Berners--I could find a suitable rabbit in rescue.

But, as *OakRidgeRabbits* pointed out, rabbit rescues don't seem to be run by breed-knowledgeable individuals, like cat and dog rescues are (e.g., Maine Coon Cat Rescue, Himalayan Cat Rescue, and all of the breed-specific dog rescue organizations), so my model simply doesn't apply. Alas. Maybe someday it will, but it doesn't right now.

You'll know where to find me on Saturday, September 14! In the meantime, I'll be hanging around both RabbitsOnline and the other rabbit forum I'm on, learning learning learning.


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## Korr_and_Sophie (Sep 4, 2013)

I think one reason there really aren't breed specific rabbit rescues is there are not many rabbit rescues. With dogs and cats, the SPCA, humane society and other places will take those species and there are usually many other rescues around. Breed rescues will work with these other shelters and rescues as well as take in owner surrenders. With rabbits, there tend to be few rabbit rescues and the SPCA or humane society might not deal with rabbits much. There are usually more rabbits needing help that there are spaces for them. As a rescue and the only rescue in an area, saying you only take one breed is tough. 
Many rabbit rescues are not good about breed ID. I can understand some breeds are more rare or mixes can be hard to ID, but many breeds are easy enough to tell. Most rescue people aren't too interested in breeds and don't really care if a rabbit is one breed or another. They seem to go on colour patterns more than anything else and ignore what the actually breed might be. One example I see fairly often is rabbits with the silver marten colouring ID'd as the Silver Marten breed. The rabbit could be a 2 pound dwarf while the Silver Marten breed is around 10 pounds. I have also need a few lionheads ID'd as angoras when they are clearly not. While I think breed is not everything, it does matter to some people. It is the same with dogs, any medium sized dog with short fur and a blocky head is a pitbull mix.


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Sep 4, 2013)

^ Yeah, breed-specific rabbit rescues aren't common (I haven't heard of any, actually). But it's mainly because they're simply not needed, I think.

Rabbits are fantastic pets, but they are also a livestock animal. There are people who deny that, want to change the laws, and take away the right to use them as such. I understand that their intentions are good, but as it stands now, rabbits don't NEED to be sitting in a rescue. When a dog or cat is relinquished, unfortunately, there are only two options: rehome or euthanize. When a rabbit is relinquished, it's great to search for a rehoming option in the short term, but in the long term, it could also be used to feed someone's family who is in need - or even a cat or dog on a more natural diet. That's all I'll say here, because that topic is not permitted in detail on this forum. The only reason I mention it at all is because, luckily, rabbits do have an option beyond sitting in great numbers in rescue or shelter situations. There is no reason for "rabbit overpopulation."

Please understand that all of my rabbits are very beloved pets and I would never consider their lives to be disposable or of less value simply because they're classified as livestock. I'm only saying that, in the event that a rabbit is without a permanent home, they don't need to face the same uncertain future as dogs or cats. Their lives don't need to be "wasted" when time runs out.

For those who *are* rescuing, I think it's very important to be knowledgeable about rabbits in general. This includes different breeds. Like dogs or cats, every rabbit breed has a different personality, and many have special care needs as well. Some are much more high energy, some are laid back. Some have a tendency toward aggressive temperaments, others are rarely a problem. Some require special flooring or grooming, others can live on just about anything. Some can tolerate outdoor conditions, others do best inside.

There are also very specific dietary requirements. One of the breeds I raise are Holland Lops, and they're trouble and a half when it comes to balancing a diet! Babies are especially prone to soft, mushy droppings. Other breeds could be free fed all the time and not have an issue.

These are characteristics that breeders care about and have worked with and learned from for decades. I am positive there are fantastic rescue workers out there too with the same knowledge...I just wish it were more common. I often see breeds misclassified on Petfinder and places like that. As mentioned, they're called by color or markings.

Anyway. I absolutely respect the work that shelters and rescues put into helping animals. I know exactly how much work it is to care for all the fur babies - it's not a light load! I just wish there were more we could do to educate those places and, in turn, more pet owners would have a greater knowledge of their animals too.

ETA: Sorry, I just realized how far off the original topic this has become. I just like talking bunnies with people who understand.  Feel free to say, "that's enough!" anytime. LOL


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## DogCatMom (Sep 4, 2013)

OakRidgeRabbits said:


> ^ Yeah, breed-specific rabbit rescues aren't common (I haven't heard of any, actually). But it's mainly because they're simply not needed, I think.



Maybe. But in the second grooming shop I worked at, the local Maine Coon Cat rescue group frequently brought us incredibly filthy, matted Maine Coon Cats whose "people" hadn't had Clue #1 how to take care of them. These same people might have done just fine with a Domestic Shorthair, but the different care requirements (somewhat akin, I would guess, to the diff. between Angoras of whatever breed and, oh, Rexes of any size) were a real threat to the cat's health.



OakRidgeRabbits said:


> Rabbits are fantastic pets, but they are also a livestock animal. There are people who deny that, want to change the laws, and take away the right to use them as such. I understand that their intentions are good, but as it stands now, rabbits don't NEED to be sitting in a rescue. When a dog or cat is relinquished, unfortunately, there are only two options: rehome or euthanize. When a rabbit is relinquished, it's great to search for a rehoming option in the short term, but in the long term, it could also be used to feed someone's family who is in need - or even a cat or dog on a more natural diet. That's all I'll say here, because that topic is not permitted in detail on this forum.


I read the FAQs when I joined the other day and couldn't find this forum's policy on that topic. Where can I find the precise wording of the policy? thx (I have a cat w/IBD who may, at some time, need to go on a "fresh foods" diet. So far he's OK w/grain-free kibble and high-quality canned cat food, thank heavens.)



OakRidgeRabbits said:


> The only reason I mention it at all is because, luckily, rabbits do have an option beyond sitting in great numbers in rescue or shelter situations. There is no reason for "rabbit overpopulation."


Unless you're a rabbit "saved" by a rescue organization whose requirements for adopters are completely unrealistic or who simply won't bring a rabbit out of its cage for you to meet it.... :sigh:



OakRidgeRabbits said:


> For those who *are* rescuing, I think it's very important to be knowledgeable about rabbits in general. This includes different breeds. Like dogs or cats, every rabbit breed has a different personality, and many have special care needs as well. Some are much more high energy, some are laid back. Some have a tendency toward aggressive temperaments, others are rarely a problem. Some require special flooring or grooming, others can live on just about anything. Some can tolerate outdoor conditions, others do best inside.


Cat rescues began in the '80s with breed-specific rescue organizations, then branched into general cat-only rescues for "other" breeds. See "Whole Dog Journal," September 2013 issue, for an in-depth history on the development of dog (and cat) rescue organizations in the U.S.



OakRidgeRabbits said:


> There are also very specific dietary requirements.


Good to know; I haven't seen this anywhere else.



OakRidgeRabbits said:


> These are characteristics that breeders care about and have worked with and learned from for decades. I am positive there are fantastic rescue workers out there too with the same knowledge...I just wish it were more common. I often see breeds misclassified on Petfinder and places like that. As mentioned, they're called by color or markings.


Tee-hee. After exhausting Petfinder possibilities on rabbits last Friday, I decided to check into Berners--just in case, you know. ;-) Petfinder said there were 141 (!) Berners available, a pretty huge number. I looked at each and every one. There were fourteen (yes, 14) actual Berners. Some of the supposed "Bernese Mtn. Dogs" weighed around 30 lb; some of them were solid yellow Labrador Retrievers; some of them were probably Rottweiler crosses. I could have sworn in court that one of the "Berners" was a Corgi X Aussie Shepherd. These dogs weren't even tri-colored. It was just plain weird.



OakRidgeRabbits said:


> Anyway. I absolutely respect the work that shelters and rescues put into helping animals. I know exactly how much work it is to care for all the fur babies - it's not a light load! I just wish there were more we could do to educate those places and, in turn, more pet owners would have a greater knowledge of their animals too.


Which is why I volunteered to groom at the Marin Humane Society during Operation Petlift/Safe from the Storm for the Katrina animals and a while after that, and for a much more local (to me) humane society that pulled from high-kill shelters in the California Central Valley. A clean, fluffy dog or cat will be adopted much faster than a scruffy, oily one.



OakRidgeRabbits said:


> ETA: Sorry, I just realized how far off the original topic this has become. I just like talking bunnies with people who understand.  Feel free to say, "that's enough!" anytime. LOL


Well, having found out that my original plan simply won't work, we seem to have moved on to a broader discussion involving Difficulties with Rescues/Difficulties Rescues Have. Fine by me; I've worked on several sides of the issue with cats/dogs: medical foster, volunteer groomer, training foster, adopter, etc.


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## flemish giant (Sep 4, 2013)

Pleasr don't think that all rabbit rescues are like this. I got Polly from Clover Patch Sanctuary in Nashville tn and you just send in an electronic application with a pic of the habitat. Once your approved (not very long at all) you go to the rescue to meet the rabbit and they ask a few questions and then they let you have the rabbit. There are going to be good rescues and bad ones.

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## Troller (Sep 4, 2013)

It might have gone off topic but it is an interesting subject nonetheless so know you have an eager audience for the subject.


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## bunnychild (Sep 4, 2013)

Don't be scared of breeders. They have a lot of intellect. I have bought from rescues before and they are lacking in knowledge.
Breeders can show you how to take proper care of the breed and they always have tips and tricks to share.

As for finding Angoras in California. You might have trouble being as it is very hot and Angoras are not fans of heat.
If only you were closer to Kansas I have one that would love you.


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## DogCatMom (Sep 4, 2013)

flemish giant said:


> Pleasr don't think that all rabbit rescues are like this.



True, but one of the two I visited is the national headquarters of a well-known rabbit rescue organization. It wasn't just some random local group, like the other one is. For a young woman not to have good skills in dealing with people is understandable--frustrating, as a potential adopter, but understandable--but for a national group to mis-identify a fuzzy bunny as an "Angora" is much harder to understand, much less condone.


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Sep 4, 2013)

flemish giant said:


> Pleasr don't think that all rabbit rescues are like this. I got Polly from Clover Patch Sanctuary in Nashville tn and you just send in an electronic application with a pic of the habitat. Once your approved (not very long at all) you go to the rescue to meet the rabbit and they ask a few questions and then they let you have the rabbit. There are going to be good rescues and bad ones.



Well, I Googled to find this particular rescue and again found rabbits mis-identified. Two were labeled as Americans. They not Americans, but Americans happen to be a breed that is considered "threatened" under The Livestock Conservancy. So if a rescue ever did come across an American, I would hope that it wouldn't immediately be spayed/neutered and sent to a pet home.

Another rabbit was labeled as an English Spot, as many broken black rabbits are. However, most broken black rabbits (including this one) are not English Spots.

I don't mean to imply that a person couldn't properly care for a rabbit of an unknown breed - that isn't the only thing that matters. In some cases, it doesn't matter at all. My point is that, while it's not the only thing, it is _something_.

Would you trust a breeder who wasn't sure which breed they were working with?

Just food for thought. I don't have the answer, but I think it's important to ask those hard questions and discuss it as a community.


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## flemish giant (Sep 4, 2013)

OakRidgeRabbits said:


> Well, I Googled to find this particular rescue and again found rabbits mis-identified. Two were labeled as Americans. They not Americans, but Americans happen to be a breed that is considered "threatened" under The Livestock Conservancy. So if a rescue ever did come across an American, I would hope that it wouldn't immediately be spayed/neutered and sent to a pet home.
> 
> Another rabbit was labeled as an English Spot, as many broken black rabbits are. However, most broken black rabbits (including this one) are not English Spots.
> 
> ...



Rescues are mostly for pets. If you want a specific breed you should be able to identify it yourself. Its just how most rescues are. They have way more important things to do than research the exact breed and most aren't pure breed either. You cant expect a rescue to Id a surrendered rabbit where the owners didn't know the breed or a rabbit that was let free and was running around its just not going to happen.

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## OakRidgeRabbits (Sep 4, 2013)

flemish giant said:


> Rescues are mostly for pets. If you want a specific breed you should be able to identify it yourself. Its just how most rescues are. They have way more important things to do than research the exact breed and most aren't pure breed either. You cant expect a rescue to Id a surrendered rabbit where the owners didn't know the breed or a rabbit that was let free and was running around its just not going to happen.



What is more important than learning about the animals being rescued? And my question still remains - Would you trust a breeder who isn't sure which breed they're working with?

I don't mean to be argumentative, only to discuss.  I think it is reasonable to expect those who are breeding/selling/giving away/adopting animals to be an authority on the animal and its care requirements. Even a bunny rescued off the street may have telling characteristics. If it doesn't, or if the person simply doesn't know, it's better to say "mixed breed" than give incorrect information.


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## flemish giant (Sep 5, 2013)

A breeder should know 100%. Breeders should be able to provide pure breed rabbits BC people that usually buy from breeders want a rabbit for a specific reason. If I want a purebred angora for spinning wool I'm going to go to a reputable breeder and they better know what they have if I'm paying for the breed. Just like with my Flemish giant I got her BC I wanted a large rabbit and if it had been a mixed breed I would've been mad. Now with rescues youre not really going for a certain breed most of the time. You go to adopt a rabbit in need clearly for a pet. I mean Polly was marked as a french lop which she isn't but I don't care BC I got her as a pet. When you buy from a rescue they're all the same price and the price isn't dependent on breed. You are paying for a pet and the care the rescue took for the rabbit. I just don't think its logical to go to a rescue and expect a pure bred. You should look at the pic on pet finder decide if you like it and then meet it. 

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## Troller (Sep 5, 2013)

flemish giant said:


> I just don't think its logical to go to a rescue and expect a pure bred. You should look at the pic on pet finder decide if you like it and then meet it.



Very true and that's easily acceptable, but then when I go to get the purebreed, pedigreed pet I want why must I also be subjected to negative reactions about where and how I got my pet from. 

That statement is not against anyone in this thread, on this forum etc just me venting about my own experience. I occassionally visit shelter groups and donate but when I share tales of my beloved pets I get icy stares or just an air of disapproval. Must I feel guilty because I didn't adopt someone else's failed responsibility with the poor creature being a host of unknowns. I have great respect for those that do adopt and it's why I donate but am I bad person because I went a different route. And some of the rescues conduct themselves rather unfairly towards us non adopters. When I was bonding my rabbits I was following instructions set out by many of the socieites. When I had trouble bonding them I reached out to my local society who's website even states they can assist bonding rabbits who haven't been screened or adopted by them. A junior member was very helpful but he really didn't help and in fact made it worse despite me warning him, and his superior (a person lauded for their bonding ability) told me it most likely can't work because they didn't have a chance to choose one another. The fact that I followed their steps (which indicated a positive match) and their own website saying its not a necessity was completely dismissed and while I'm assuming here I don't think it so far fetched to believe its because I got mine from a breeder.

I know it sounds all negative up there but I did get good info from the societies and some help. I will also say that many breeders wouldn't work with me when they found out I wanted to bond my rabbit with another. However the breeder who I eventually got my Xena from was polite and she did cat and dog rescues. I wish that breeders and rescues didn't have such an antagonistic relationship because imagine a rescue that had the assistance of breeders to identify their animals, or rescues helping out breeders in safely selling to the pet market and so bypassing the terrible pet stores. I know there are bad breeders, rescues and pet stores out there but why must they be the shining examples that nullify those that do good work. 

Of course while I'm on my soapbox I should mention how bad pet owners sour all the above organizations. I took a whole year to study my feelings on getting a pet then dedicated research to it to see if it was feasible in my life. The folks who buy the animals for others or on a whim without thinking of the consequences are adding to what I'm seeing as a divide between rescues and breeders. Making it so much more difficult for the responsible folks who are out there and love our pets. 

Yeah, sorry for the threadjack its just this thread makes me think of this subject.


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## DogCatMom (Sep 5, 2013)

flemish giant said:


> A breeder should know 100%. Breeders should be able to provide pure breed rabbits BC people that usually buy from breeders want a rabbit for a specific reason. If I want a purebred angora for spinning wool I'm going to go to a reputable breeder and they better know what they have if I'm paying for the breed. Just like with my Flemish giant I got her BC I wanted a large rabbit and if it had been a mixed breed I would've been mad.



Agreed w/regard to responsible breeders.



flemish giant said:


> Now with rescues youre not really going for a certain breed most of the time. You go to adopt a rabbit in need clearly for a pet. I mean Polly was marked as a french lop which she isn't but I don't care BC I got her as a pet. When you buy from a rescue they're all the same price and the price isn't dependent on breed. You are paying for a pet and the care the rescue took for the rabbit. I just don't think its logical to go to a rescue and expect a pure bred. You should look at the pic on pet finder decide if you like it and then meet it.



This is where dog and cat rescues were at before breed-specific organizations began to develop in the late '80s. Prospective adopters originally had very low expectations: a dog was a dog--maybe small/medium/large, and maybe short- or long-haired. A cat was definitely *just* a cat. A family or individual went to the local animal control ("pound"), looked at the kennels/cages, and selected an animal. If none of the animals appealed, maybe the family/individual drove one town over or similar.

Then the situation began to change and, correspondingly, prospective adopters learned to look to different sources when they had a breed preference.

From the "Whole Dog Journal" (September 2013 issue), Heather Houlahan's article educates the reader on how to discriminate between legitimate and non-legitimate rescue organizations. Ms. Houlahan gives a good history of how dog (and, by extension, cat) rescue got to where it is today. Here is her first paragraph:

'In the 1980s, a new kind of dog adoption organization started to emerge. The lovers of specific breeds of dogs, alarmed and disgusted to see their dogs languishing in shelters, got together to pull dogs from shelters  and to step in where possible to prevent them from landing there. In some cases the rescue group was a branch of the breed club. The dogs were fostered in the private homes of people who were highly knowledgeable about the breed  often breeders, and usually long-time owners  who were well qualified to address breed-typical behavior and health issues.'

It's now the case that, for anyone wanting a specific breed of dog, the AKC's website links to breed club rescue committees. For cats, almost every TICA-recognized breed has an organized rescue committee (I just checked via Internet search on several well-known breeds, and could see others on later pages). Unfortunately, the "Rescue" page at www.tica.org is out of order. The point is that potential cat adopters' expectations have also been raised: if they have a specific breed of cat in mind, they can find it. Of course, Petfinder has been a godsend to both animals and people in finding perfect matches! 

Rabbit rescue stands now in a position similar to those of dog and cat rescue 30 years ago, except that Petfinder now exists. Transport hasn't yet been overcome, though.... It may be that somewhere, soon, rabbit people with breed knowledge and expertise will decide to form a small, independent group for Breed A. It will be small at first; others will ask, "Why just one breed?" like they did when this trend started with dogs and cats. (I was living only with cats until 1998, so I was first aware of the cat rescue org's; I thought it was a *terrific* idea!)

Then, partisans of a second breed with special care requirements (diet? grooming? birthing? low level of excitement in the home?) will say, "Why can't we do that? Too many of 'our breed' rabbits aren't making it after they're adopted out. I keep hearing from my friends/on the Internet/at shows that about __% of their bunnies don't survive adoption because ____."  

And so it will go. Eventually (and this may take several years, but who knows? given connectivity), the "general" rabbit rescues will indeed have "general" rabbits, and the breed-specific rescues will be the place to find a specific breed of rabbit.

It's just not that way right now, but I would be surprised for this way to continue. Ideally, of course, ARBA would lead the way, but the odds of that happening are probably as good as those for a rabbit to lay Easter eggs. The AKC had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into listing rescue on its website, but now www.AKC.org looks as if the independent rescue committees were the AKC's idea in the first place!


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## DogCatMom (Sep 5, 2013)

Troller said:


> I know there are bad breeders, rescues and pet stores out there but why must they be the shining examples that nullify those that do good work.
> 
> Of course while I'm on my soapbox I should mention how bad pet owners sour all the above organizations.



Well said, on both counts. Not a threadjack in my book.


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Sep 5, 2013)

I think expecting breeders to be knowledgeable about the rabbits they're passing onto others, but not expecting rescues to know or care, is a double standard.

I understand that rescues don't always or often receive purebred rabbits - I'm not saying they need to, or that everyone wants a purebred. My problem is the false advertising and misinformation that is passed onto new pet owners. I don't understand why it "doesn't matter" if rescues do this, but that a breeder would be considered a backyard bunny mill if they did the same thing.

We need to hold everyone accountable for the animals they're passing on to others. Making up information isn't acceptable whether it's a breeder, rescue, or pet store.


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## flemish giant (Sep 5, 2013)

OakRidgeRabbits said:


> I think expecting breeders to be knowledgeable about the rabbits they're passing onto others, but not expecting rescues to know or care, is a double standard.
> 
> I understand that rescues don't always or often receive purebred rabbits - I'm not saying they need to, or that everyone wants a purebred. My problem is the false advertising and misinformation that is passed onto new pet owners. I don't understand why it "doesn't matter" if rescues do this, but that a breeder would be considered a backyard bunny mill if they did the same thing.
> 
> We need to hold everyone accountable for the animals they're passing on to others. Making up information isn't acceptable whether it's a breeder, rescue, or pet store.



Breeders should be striving to make the breed better. Therefore need to know everything about a breed. Rescues aren't they're for rescueing animals and finding new homes. Rescues get sooo many rabbits they can know every single rabbit breed by arba standards.

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## Korr_and_Sophie (Sep 5, 2013)

Rescues should know as much as they can about the rabbits they have. Breed or mix is just one part. People who want a pet rabbit from a rescue are usually looking more at personality and may want to know how the rabbit does with other rabbits, dogs, cats, kids or even if they could be free roam. The size of the rabbit can be more important than breed. If a rescue does have a rabbit or breed with extra care needs (such as grooming), they should know how to deal with that and pass correct info onto the adopter. 

Breeders choose what breed or breeds they want to work with, rescues do not. Rescues get what they get. I would expect a breeder to know about the breed they have as they choose to have that breed. I would not expect a rescue to know everything about all the breeds they might have. Unless it is a breed specific rescue, rescues really have little say in what rabbits they take in.


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## flemish giant (Sep 5, 2013)

Korr_and_Sophie said:


> Rescues should know as much as they can about the rabbits they have. Breed or mix is just one part. People who want a pet rabbit from a rescue are usually looking more at personality and may want to know how the rabbit does with other rabbits, dogs, cats, kids or even if they could be free roam. The size of the rabbit can be more important than breed. If a rescue does have a rabbit or breed with extra care needs (such as grooming), they should know how to deal with that and pass correct info onto the adopter.
> 
> Breeders choose what breed or breeds they want to work with, rescues do not. Rescues get what they get. I would expect a breeder to know about the breed they have as they choose to have that breed. I would not expect a rescue to know everything about all the breeds they might have. Unless it is a breed specific rescue, rescues really have little say in what rabbits they take in.



Agree 100%. Just like at clover patch there was a rabbit who didn't eat hay so it was sent to a foster home to learn and any rabbit that has special needs they list it.

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## RabbitGirl101 (Sep 5, 2013)

OakRidgeRabbits said:


> What is more important than learning about the animals being rescued? And my question still remains - Would you trust a breeder who isn't sure which breed they're working with?
> 
> I don't mean to be argumentative, only to discuss.  I think it is reasonable to expect those who are breeding/selling/giving away/adopting animals to be an authority on the animal and its care requirements. Even a bunny rescued off the street may have telling characteristics. If it doesn't, or if the person simply doesn't know, it's better to say "mixed breed" than give incorrect information.


This is a very valid point, even if your just given a rabbit and you don't get to choose it, doesn't mean you should be able to give false information. I would rather go to the shelter and get a rabbit sold as a mixed breed with a certain breed in mind, then go to a shelter and expect to get an angora and it turns out to be a lionhead. Don't get me wrong I support shelters I think it is wonderful they want to give animals a second chance, but some put down breeders saying we are not knowledgeable when they are one giving out false information as well.



OakRidgeRabbits said:


> I think expecting breeders to be knowledgeable about the rabbits they're passing onto others, but not expecting rescues to know or care, is a double standard.
> 
> I understand that rescues don't always or often receive purebred rabbits - I'm not saying they need to, or that everyone wants a purebred. My problem is the false advertising and misinformation that is passed onto new pet owners. I don't understand why it "doesn't matter" if rescues do this, but that a breeder would be considered a backyard bunny mill if they did the same thing.
> 
> We need to hold everyone accountable for the animals they're passing on to others. Making up information isn't acceptable whether it's a breeder, rescue, or pet store.


This is a valid point. *Everyone*should be held to this. 



flemish giant said:


> Breeders should be striving to make the breed better. Therefore need to know everything about a breed. Rescues aren't they're for rescueing animals and finding new homes. Rescues get sooo many rabbits they can know every single rabbit breed by arba standards.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Rabbit Forum mobile app



Im not saying breeders shouldn't strive to make the breed better, but why put all of the 'you _need_ to know this' on breeders shoulders? Everyone, including rescues and pet owners, should know about their breed. Each breed is different and some breeds are more prone to certain health issues then others.( rex furred rabbits are prone to sore hocks) I'm not saying the rescues need to guarantee that a certain rabbit is _that_ breed, but when they call a broken black netherland dwarf an English Spot, the pet owner will be doing research on an English spot and they may begin to feed the rabbit more, so the rabbit becomes obese, then they think there are health problems with the rabbit because its not as big as that rabbit breed should be,so then they are spending tons of money taking it to the vet trying to figure out why the development in the rabbit isn't occurring and they are feeding the rabbits extra supplements trying to get it to grow and at the end of the day the only issue is mistaken case of breed. I have knew a person who did this with their rabbit they didn't take it to the vet right away but they started giving it extra supplements and went to the vet and the vet had to tell them it wasn't and English spot. 

Everyone rescuing should have a general idea on the recognized breeds in arba. This doen't mean that the rabbit coming into the shelter needs to be a top show quality show rabbit and it has to have certain traits. My point is that rescues should try to look more into the breeds and breeders shouldn't be the only ones held to it, if they don't know the breed of their rabbits they are selling. ( If a breeder did this I would consider them very unknowledgeable and an unreputable breeder.)

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Sorry we are getting off topic now, with the angoras I would look into a breeder that is your best option. Like previously stated, mention something about spinning. Most angora breeders will not sell pets because of the high care levels. If you mention spinning the breeder will most likely help you find a rabbit that will have wool that will be good for spinning. Angoras in California may be harder to find because it is warmer weather but they still exist. If you are willing you can even consider traveling out of state to get an angora (I did this to pick up my Holland lops). I wish you luck on you search and I hope you find the perfect angora for spinning!


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## Jackelope (Sep 25, 2013)

I agree about speaking to some breeders. There's a lot of angora breeders in CA. Ask them if they have any angoras that need homes. They'll know what you mean and won't just breed rabbits for you. Many breeders have rabbits they are trying to find pet homes for. They are well taken care of in the meantime and it's not a rescue organization, but it's not too different from rescuing a homeless bunny.

I'm probably going to want to rehome Whisp's sister, Layla (a little REW English Angora) but not anytime soon (I just got her and she needs to recover from some issues). I love in CO, though.


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