# Bonding issues - tried everything we can think of!



## murielsayer (Dec 28, 2015)

Hello -

Tail (see what I did there?) of bonding woe here. My girlfriend has a 7 year old red rex rabbit, J, a neutered male she adopted when he was about a year old. J is generally sweet and docile, behaves much a small cat or dog (he was raised with cats), and is a big fella - about 10 pounds. He had a bondmate for a number of years, a tiny little female neutered rabbit, but she passed away about five months ago.

My girlfriend wanted to get J a friend, so she and I contacted a rabbit rescue local to us. They did a home visit and set up a "speed date" with three contenders - all neutered female rabbits over the age of 4. J responded well to them and they to him, but one rabbit seemed like the best bet so we went with her (one other was a closer bond, but had health issues that my girlfriend wasn't sure she could manage, since she works fulltime). 

On the speed date, J groomed his intended bondmate, 4 year old, 6-pound lop-eared F (who has limited vision in her left eye), and the two interacted well both times they "met." At one point, they even sat side by side in a litter box. F got startled, though, and bit the facilitator on the second date, so it ended on a tough note.

Since bringing F home, bonding has been a struggle. We tried a neutral date outside in my girlfriend's backyard, but this ended with F biting J on the ear quite badly. Other bonds have resulted in chasing, cornering, and another bite (F got J on the face somewhere and, while no mark was left, J squealed - very unusual for him). 

We have since tried stress bonding in my bathtub, filling it with a bit of water. It seems to work (the rabbits huddle together and all aggression is tabled; J has even groomed F some), but F, who was extremely malnourished and possibly abused before her time with the rabbit rescue, totally shuts down during stress bonding. She seems unable to respond to J's grooming, and does not even react when he bonks her with his front feet (seems less aggressive and more 'pay attention to me!'). Once we took them out of the tub, fighting resumed.

So we tried another approach - putting them in an x-pen with a divider in the middle. Whenever they attempt to fight through it, we sprayed them with water from a bottle. This worked really well; both backed off and began to groom themselves fastidiously. Then we removed the divider, leaving it open for 15 minutes at a time, spraying water as needed.

For a while, they did really well! They ignored each other for the most part, coming over to sniff. Sometimes F would run toward J and he would simply back off. 

The problems started when F began to exhibit territorial behavior. She made a barrier with her towel and sat behind it. When J would mosey over, she would run at him. Most of the time he'd just go back to his side of the x-pen, but fighting resumed in earnest. My girlfriend reported that biting and kicking started after I left for work.

Both of us really want these two to work out their dominance issues without injuring each other. J especially seems to want companionship (though it seems like he hasn't forgiven F for the bites!) and F, though a scrapper, would likely benefit from a bond as well. Tomorrow, we plan to return to the bathtub and scrub down the x-pen and area where it was set up to remove traces of territory. But we are relatively new to this; J's first bond happened instantly, which is NOT the case here. 

We might try the washing machine trick, as my girlfriend has an in-house washer-drier. We are cityfolk and neither of us has a car, so that's not much of an option. I have a bathtub and backyard at my disposal, and she has a yard she can use some of the time. I also have vacuum cleaners (and a drumset, if it comes to that!). But because F seems to have had past trauma, stress bonding might be harder than we thought. 

Does anyone have experience bonding tricky rabbits? Rabbits with trauma histories? 

Any advice would be great!

DETAILS:
Rabbit 1: J, 7 year old red rex, neutered male, 10lbs. Adopted at 1 year, raised with cats and a companion rabbit who died 5 months ago.

Rabbit 2: F, 4 year old black lop, neutered female, 6lbs. Limited vision in left eye. Has a history of malnutrition and possibly abuse. Not much is known about her history prior to her time at rabbit rescue.


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## Blue eyes (Dec 28, 2015)

I have dealt with a few difficult bonds. I have become convinced that stress bonding is *only* effective with rabbits that are already inclined to bond anyway. My personal opinion is that stress bonding only gives a temporary lull in the natural behavior of an individual rabbit -- that's fine for compliant buns.

It sounds like yours are getting worse, not better, in their relationship. It may be beneficial, if you are intent on making this bond work, to completely remove them from each other's presence for a week or more. This would mean totally out of each other's sight and smell. The idea behind this would be for them to forget about their past scuffles and then begin anew - like a brand new bond. 

The other option would be to let the rescue know the difficulty and request a different bun instead. I have had to do this on more than one occasion. Please know that sometimes two rabbits will just refuse to get along. This would not be "your fault" or an indication that you have done anything wrong. It just the way some rabbits are. 

The pre-screening that rescues do is just that, a pre-screen for *potential* compatibility. It's ultimately up to the individual rabbits. 

Some people will go to all lengths to bond two rabbits. I will not. I feel that if a bond is truly that difficult that the stress on the rabbits just isn't worth it - especially for the result of a potentially precarious bond. 

It may be best for both rabbits to switch the new female for a different rescue female.


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## Azerane (Dec 29, 2015)

I agree that there is the potential here for the possibility of trying a different female to bond with J, while not the best scenario for you since I'm sure you've gotten attached to F, it could be the better decision for both F and J in the long run.

Otherwise, in terms of trying the bond again. I agree with Blue eyes that giving them a rest will be beneficial, let them get over their wounds and give them a chance to forget about fights. After a week or so of having them in complete separation you could start switching items from their cages. Switch over a toy, a food bowl, hidey hut, or anything from one cage to another. It can help them get used to having the smell of the other rabbit in their space and is a way to let them know that it's not just their toy or territory. From this point you can also switch which cage they are in. You could swap them over on a daily basis for a week. From there you will need to resume short introductions again in neutral territory. I would avoid the stress bonding, as it sounds like it could be doing more harm than good for F. Keep it very short and positive. If it works put them down next to each other, even with a bundled up towel in between and just pet them both continually for a few minutes. No more than five minutes is needed. That way it can't get out of hand and it finishes on a positive note. Lots of short sessions that don't have a chance to get sour are the way to go. 2-3 sessions a day, for several days, or even weeks, slowly building up to 10 minutes, then 15 etc with allowing more freedom for them as they show progress around each other. You have to wait for the bunnies to show that they are ready to move on to the next step.

Like Blue eyes said, not all bonds are possible, even if they seem likely. But I think it's worth taking a very slow approach with these two. How long have you had F, you haven't mentioned it?


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## murielsayer (Dec 29, 2015)

Hello! Thanks to you both, Azerane and Blue eyes! I'm happy to report some progress as of yesterday. My gf and I tried the tactic of petting both rabbits as they sat nose to nose, which the facilitator had done (but told us to do sparingly). This worked quite well, and we ended the last two of three bonding interactions without any fighting!! 

Afterward, both buns sniffed each other through their cage barrier (double barrier) many times and did not scrabble or scratch (though there was some back-turning). F flopped by the barrier, too (while J was busy nosing paper around) and generally seems to be doing really well - she has started taking food from my gf's hand, which she has not done before. F has started to greet me by standing on her hind legs. J is letting my gf pet him on the stomach - a rare event.

I think we will try the nose-petting again and see if that leads to progress or regression (and maybe add a little banana to F's head to encourage grooming!). If that doesn't work, I'll float the separation idea (one bun can stay with me, one with her) and we'll start over - my gf has a little bit of time left on her staycation-vacation, so separating them and then bringing them back for more bond attempts is feasible. I wonder - would housing them on opposite sides of the apartment work? My place is fairly big and neither bun has been in my room (I have cats and didn't want them to get angry, but they don't mind the rabbits if they are in their cages).

If NONE of this works, I think it may be time to either have the buns just be neighbors or try another female rabbit. We HAVE become attached to F - my gf got her several months ago, though my sense of time is really terrible - but if the best thing for her is another home and/or bond, we will look into that for sure.

Thanks again!!!


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## murielsayer (Dec 29, 2015)

Could we also swap sheddings during separation - would that work? RC (my girlfriend) and I live a subway ride apart, so smaller items would be easier to transport. J isn't a big toy bunny (though RC has tried!) and F seems pretty bored by them, too. Mostly it's hidey boxes (kind of big for a subway ride, and I wonder if other smells would get mixed in that way) and wadded up paper - both love to rip up brown parcel sheets!


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## murielsayer (Dec 29, 2015)

The bun that seemed to be the best bond with J during the speed dating session was not one that my gf could manage so easily, sadly - she required eyedrops numerous times a day, and RC (girlfriend) works full-time, so it would not have been a good match for RC *or* the bun. We also weren't sure how able she would be to groom/interact with J, who really needs some attention; the bun was both fully blind and deaf, and, while she was able to move around/get her bearings via lots of circling, neither RC nor I know much about rabbits with these disabilities and what they can/can't do. It also seemed like the rescue people were trying really hard to play up each rabbit's strengths and not talk about what their weaknesses might be - makes sense, as they were trying to place a number of buns, but not so great for us, who wanted to do right by both J and the new bun (F, in this case).

Older rabbits seemed to be harder to come by - J is 7. We didn't want the "window/widower" situation again, but maybe, in order to find a bond that will work both match and rabbit-health-wise, RC and I should reconsider the age limits? Thoughts?\

Thanks!!


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## Azerane (Dec 29, 2015)

By separating them I didn't mean entirely removing one from where you're living. Just keep them divided with plenty of space between cages. Opposite sides of a room or even different rooms if possible is fine. As long as when you have one out for free time, they can't go up and start a fight through the cage bars of the other one. If you remove one from the environment completely, it's possible it could reinforce to the rabbit that stays that it's their territory.

It sounds like you have made progress with the petting sessions of bonding. I would keep progressing with that if it's working, positive reinforcement is the best thing


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## murielsayer (Dec 29, 2015)

Oh! Cool, okay, so I don't have to keep them super far, far, far from one another. Good. 

And yes - they seem to like the nose/head petting, quick interactions - with a tasty grape if their behavior is good. They don't get grapes normally because of the sugar factor (though, for humans, grapes have a very low glycemic index - my dad can eat 'em and he's diabetic).


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## murielsayer (Dec 30, 2015)

Ugh. Some setbacks to report. After several calm, although uneventful bonding sessions, J and F returned to scrapping with one another. In the scuffle, F gave my girlfriend a nasty bite on the hand (she's gotten her on the legs before) that bled quite a bit, but J was unharmed. 

For now, we have separated the bunnies completely, putting F in the living room and leaving J in the kitchen, which is separated from the living room by a wall. There's a cutout in the wall that was once a window (the kitchen is an addition to the original apartment, it looks like) but it's covered with a curtain.

One bright spot is that F is now taking grapes from MY hand as well! I'm still hoping this works out, but realize that if RC and I have to continue pushing this bond, we will have to look for another mate for J. I don't know if F is a solitary type bun or not, but J really isn't. He wants a pal, and denying him one because we want to keep F isn't fair to him - or to her, if she'd rather be in a single-rabbit home or with another bun who is not J.

Maybe I'm just bummed that this isn't working, but I'm a little peeved at the rescue org at this point. When they came to do the home visit and meet J, they were wowed by his good nature and gentleness. The rabbits they picked for the speed date were all tough to bond/handle/care for, I realize now; there was the deaf/blind bun who needed drops in her eyes, a cute but slightly violent/wild little one, and then F, who is quite a biter/scrapper. That's not so much the issue for me; the problem is that the org was NOT up front about this fact, and I wonder if they could have also tried J with other buns. 

While this experience with F does not seem to be doing much to dent his happy-go-lucky ways, it can't be enjoyable for J. I don't know that the other buns would have been much better, as the feisty littler one might have been harder on him and the deaf/blind one might not have been able to respond to J the way he needs. I wish they had thought more about him and what he needs in a match rather than *just* finding homes for tough-to-home buns. I also wish they would have asked RC (and me, by proxy) if we would be okay with seeing difficult matches ONLY. 

Sigh.


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## Aki (Jan 2, 2016)

I can't really help you, but I understand your frustration. Bonding rabbits can be really tough and exhausting for the owner. Especially when you had a perfectly bonded pair of rabbits that where separated by death, because you feel so sorry for the remaining single bun. I went through the same thing. My original couple fell in love instantly and lived 4 years in marital bliss, when the male died. I took in another rabbit and my female really didn't like the new addition, but she was so stressed by the fact of living on her own that she was developping OCD so I persisted. I finally understood that the main problem was the new bun's laziness. He refuses to groom my female, but mostly because he's not even bothered to wash HIMSELF most of the time. He also can't be bothered to deal with this hierarchy thingy and my female seemed constantly insulted by the way he plainly ignored all her attempts at establishing one. It took a long time for the new pair to get along and now, two years later, they live very well together. Even though they are not as perfectly matched as my original duo was, they came to like each other. So, I hope it works out for J and F too. But if not... well, you and your girlfriend did your best so, priority to the well-being of the oldest member of the family and I wish you the best of luck to find a better match if you unfortunately have try with another bun. Some rabbits just aren't made for each other.


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## Lokin4AReason (Jan 12, 2016)

i bonded my two in two separate cages but yet having the two cages next to each other ( and placing their food bowls near each other in separate cages so they can pick up each other scent )

also having them fixed will make the bonding a lot easier to tho ..


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## Akzholedent (Jan 15, 2016)

Fortunately, two of my three buns "came" pre-bonded. They had always been cuddly with each other, but until they were spayed and neutered, they couldn't play together for long. Things would... get naughty quick. Lol. So, to prevent baby buns, they were separated, but still close together. Now, they're living together and happy as can be. 

On the other hand, my third bun, is a feisty little thing..she's only half their size, but she picks fights and everything. I brought the other two home, so she could have friends.. well, she's not interested, apparently, so they have their own room, and she has hers. Some buns just aren't sociable with other buns... she loves my boyfriend though. I think she's always trying to win him over. Lol


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## murielsayer (Jan 21, 2016)

Hello, all -

An update over here. A few weeks ago, when RC and I put the bunnies back together for a bonding session, F bit J so hard that he squealed and squealed. We separated the rabbits quickly and ended the session. 

At first, we could see no mark on either rabbit, but when we were petting J to calm him down, he started flinching when either of us would touch the right side of his head. On closer inspection, I discovered that F had bit him about a half inch from his eye. NOT GOOD.

Since then, we have not tried to put them together again. They're neighbors for now, but RC has contacted the facilitator at the rescue org where we got F, and she is willing to come check out the situation. Hopefully she will have some advice for us, whether that is to rehome F, continue on with F and J as neighbors but not bondmates, or continue the bonding process under her governance.

Thanks for all your help! I'm sure I will be back on here in the future.


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## Azerane (Jan 21, 2016)

Best of luck with it, it's sounding more and more like they simply do not get along  I hope you work out the best solution for everyone involved.


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## murielsayer (Jan 22, 2016)

Azerane said:


> Best of luck with it, it's sounding more and more like they simply do not get along  I hope you work out the best solution for everyone involved.



Thank you! I think J really needs a friend, one who doesn't mind that he is quick to want to bond! He wants to sniff and groom and play, and F, on the first bond after the speed date, seemed to take it as a major threat. 

Seeing pictures of bonded buns makes me so sad that it isn't working. I hope that either the facilitator can help us make it work with F or that the next intended bondmate integrates more seamlessly.


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## Blue eyes (Jan 22, 2016)

It's great that the rescue is willing to help out. It has been my experience that the rescues truly do want to see that the rabbits and the adopters are both happy. 

Sometimes two rabbits just refuse to get along. Whether these two will get along, or you find a happier match, it sounds like ultimately it will work out for the best.


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## murielsayer (Jan 26, 2016)

Hiya - 

Another update in the ongoing saga of J and F. The woman at the rabbit rescue we adopted F from got back to us about a home visit. She is scheduled to come by this Thursday.

From her emails, she seems VERY optimistic that F and J can bond - EVEN AFTER we told her about all the biting J has endured. She assured us that she has seen this behavior before and seems to think that F is biting J because he is approaching her low-vision side. She thinks they need to get used to each other.

I for one don't buy it. F often approaches J for an attack when J is just standing there, and then things get out of hand. If she wasn't doing that, I'd be more inclined to believe that she is biting because he is dipping out of her field of view, but, though I adore her, I think F is quite aggressive and likely needs a VERY low-energy, submissive bondmate or to be a solo rabbit on her own.

Another reason this sucks is that I don't want J to have to endure MORE of this. Being bitten is terrible - his squeal nearly made ME cry! He REALLY REALLY needs a friend; he's very reliant on human contact, more than I think might be good for him, and I can't always give him attention right at the moment he wants it. If I have to pass his pen on my way to the kitchen or the bathroom, he jumps forward quite dramatically and rises on his hind legs requesting pets. Sometimes I cannot oblige him, as my hands are full or I need to stay on task, and I think if he had a buddy, some of this behavior would alleviate. He's such a love and I can't stand to see him sad or wanting.

I also don't want F to have to go through the stress of bonding with a rabbit as eager and needy as J is - I think he is rushing her and am not sure if this will change. Perhaps I'm overthinking; I am still a novice!

Anyway: RC and I will be sure to fill the facilitator in on other details when she comes over. I hope she can help us make the best choice for these buns!


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## Azerane (Jan 27, 2016)

In the end, it ultimately is your decision whether you keep F or not. Yes it possible that they could still bond like the woman said, but if you feel that F isn't the right match for J, who you know best, then that's when you need to say "hey, I know my rabbit and I'm not comfortable continuing to bond with F, we'd like to try a different rabbit". There's nothing wrong with that. In the end, they're still adopting out a bunny, and you end up with two rabbits that are probably a better match for each other. So by all means give it another go if you want, but don't let her pressure you if you feel it's not in the best interest for J.


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## murielsayer (Feb 6, 2016)

A happy update! The rabbit facilitator visited and was very calm and kind. She does not think that a bond is impossible and gave me and RC very, VERY clear instructions on what to do with these two. 

The slow and steady approach (starting them with one minute together, then increasing bit by bit if no incidents occur) seems to be the way to go. They also need lots of intervention, both to keep fights from happening but mostly to assure each party that they will be safe around the other. 

I'm happy to report that so far, so good! The buns are up to six and a half minutes together, most of which are spent parallel playing or simply approaching each other quite slowly (unless J is feeling VERY curious, in which case he rushes a bit). 

The only negative interaction was when J did a jailbreak during his runaround time and went over to F's cage. He seemed to startle her and then they started scrapping a bit before RC caught them. It seems like J peed on the floor but his runaround time was quickly stopped and he was put back in his cage, so hopefully he learned that such actions garner a negative outcome.

They've also started mirroring each other's behaviors. J has started to dig a lot more, picking up on F's habit. F, in turn, rises on her hinders to greet us just the way J does. 

Right now little F is happily running about in the play area as I type this. She has gotten way more curious and playful. Right now, she is trying to figure out how to push a broom I have leaning up against the wall out of the way so she can create another path for herself by littler box. There has been some pushing of the box with her nose - quite a strong one, she is! She somehow seems to think she can dig a hole in the lino-tile to help her cause... Not so great but I'm really happy she's being so busy and has gotten more into problem-solving!

Here's hoping they're bonded soon. Might take a while but I'm really glad the facilitator stopped by and she seemed to genuinely think there is hope for them. She showed us all her scars from SERIOUSLY difficult bonding sessions and "dates" gone awry. Cross your fingers!


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