# Lionhead mix question



## MsBinky (Oct 26, 2007)

Hi guys,

I have another question for you. My new bunny is a lionhead/Papillon mix. They were advertised as single-mane lionheads but then I saw the rabbits used to breed. It doesn't seem to have a mane and since it's a mix it probably won't have one right? And if the papa is 3 lbs and the mama is 7lbs, am I correct in assuming it can weigh anything in between?

Thanks


I thought I'd add a pic in case it could help discuss the type of coat it may have...


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## polly (Oct 27, 2007)

um can't answer your question really but i would have expected it to have more of a mane even as a cross ( my lionheads are crossed with my nethies but they have more mane than that up until you lose their baby coats if you want to see have a scroll through my blog) 

Can i just say thpough he is gorgeous and is going straight on my bunnynapping list:biggrin2:


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## MsBinky (Oct 27, 2007)

Hehe thanks Polly But really, it's mine 

Well, I read about the genetics and everything. If I understood correctly, when breeding a lionhead to a non-lionhead you have a 50% chance of having either. I guess this is one of those that has no mane... 

I get confused though because on her site she lists a few as being single-maned and a few as no mane and I can't tell the difference. Lol. You can seethe parents and babies here.. As you can see there is no descriptin under mine.

http://www.beaulapinet.110mb.com/896B092B-6467-4085-9DBE-348A59B4E4F7.html

I have no experience whatsoever with lionheads as I didn't like them before. But then I saw Marlin, and it changed my opinion


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## polly (Oct 27, 2007)

what gorgeous pics but none look like lionheads. Out of 3 litters and 6 babies i have only had 1 that didn't get a mane of some sort

Peg would be better at this than me though!


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## TinysMom (Oct 27, 2007)

I want to start by sharing a link to one of the best pages about lionheads and mane...it is here:

http://lionheadrabbit.net/genmanegibbons.htm

When you breed a single mane lionhead to a nonlionhead - you can get 50% nonlionheads (no mane) and 50% single maned lionheads. If the lionhead parent is a double maned lionhead - then the odds are different - and you can see it on that page.

Based on the photo you are sharing - I would say that your rabbit would not be classified a "lionhead mix" although it is. I'm probably not saying that right so let me give my explanation and then you can go from there.

At least for ARBA purposes - when you call a rabbit a certain type of breed (according to comments I've heard) - that rabbit should LOOK like the breed you're calling it. For instance - you might breed two lops and then get a rabbit with up-ears....you couldn't show it as a lop (even though it came from lops) because it does not have the characteristics of a lop.

It is sort of the same way with your new rabbit. Unless he/she starts showing a mane in the next few weeks - it might come from a lionhead...but isn't really a lionhead (ok..you can call it lionhead mix since that is what it is). But technically - there should not be a "no-mane" lionhead because having a mane is part of what makes it the lionhead.

And I feel like I'm just talking in circles here. So I'll summarize by saying this.

Your rabbit might have a lionhead parent....but I think I'd stick with calling him/her a mixed breed rabbit. 

Also - the breeder can tell shortly after birth what babies are maned and non-maned by how they look when their fur starts to come in. I'll try to pull up some old photos and show what I mean later..

Peg


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## TinysMom (Oct 27, 2007)

I looked at my photobucket account and found some pictures of babies that might show you how I can tell if babies are double mane or not..














If you will look at the photos and see where they are missing fur on their flanks...this fur will come in later and is the "skirting" you often see on lionheads....if the baby has this bald area - it is a double mane. If not - then it is a single mane - or a no-mane and you can only tell this by if it starts to grow a mane or not. 

Peg


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## polly (Oct 28, 2007)

wow Peg just had to post and say i didn't realise that on double manes how much longer does the skirting take to come in ? (just out of interest!)


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## TinysMom (Oct 28, 2007)

*I honestly haven't thought about it - I think with my next litters I'll have to track it and write down the dates. It doesn't take that much longer (ok - I had one that took 45 days to get the rest of his fur - but he was strange and sort of a fluke). 

The saying about the baldness on the head is, "The more baldness...the better the mane will be" too.

I'll try to show some photos in a bit of rabbits as the skirting has started coming in and how you can see the difference then.

Peg


polly wrote: *


> wow Peg just had to post and say i didn't realise that on double manes how much longer does the skirting take to come in ? (just out of interest!)


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## polly (Oct 28, 2007)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> *I honestly haven't thought about it - I think with my next litters I'll have to track it and write down the dates. It doesn't take that much longer (ok - I had one that took 45 days to get the rest of his fur - but he was strange and sort of a fluke).
> 
> The saying about the baldness on the head is, "The more baldness...the better the mane will be" too.
> 
> ...


Awww he needed a jumper :biggrin2:


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## TinysMom (Oct 28, 2007)

Pedro (aka "Alien Baby") needed more than a jumper - he needed a fur coat.

Here are photos:

















and here he is after his fur came in..

[URL=http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/PegFlint/b5e45c65.jpg]

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[URL=http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/PegFlint/f570d15c.jpg]


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You can see his story here on Rainbow Bridge:

http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=21041&forum_id=27

Peg


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## polly (Oct 28, 2007)

thats really weird how the fur comes in. Poor Pedro what age was he when he went Peg? i have had a couple of rabbits now that have never really grown lik ethe others and generally thye pass at about 3 yrs 

He was totally gorgeous and what a fab home he had with you 

Thanks for letting me see the pics. Do you have any idea whether you will get single or double manes ? 

Goodness me you are meant to be having time out and i keep asking questions sorry and sorry for hijacking the thread


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## TinysMom (Oct 28, 2007)

If I remember right - Pedro was born in Sept. of 2005 and he passed away in April 2007. It was really hard to lose him - although I think we knew all along that he would not live a long life. 

However, he lived a GOOD life - and he knew he was loved. So I am happy for that.

I mainly get double mane rabbits because I mainly work with double manes. I do have a few single mane rabbits (Ohana - the mother of Dusty, Drew & Bun Bun is one of them). I do have a few single manes from my early breedings where my main herd buck was Harry and he was single mane.

It was sort of funny because you've seen Harriet in my blog most likely. I started out breeding and I did NOT want two things...I did not want chestnuts and I did not want single manes.

So in one of my first four litters what do I get? I get a single mane chestnut. WONDERFUL. 

Well - I would take them all out of the nest every day and hold them for a bit. Most of the rabbits would wiggle and squirm....but Harriet...would snuggle into my hand and try to get between my fingers. He would stay there for about 15 to 20 minutes before trying to move. He'd nuzzle my fingers too.

So I said, "Fine...I'll keep this rabbit IF it is a doe.."

As time went by and I thought Harriet was a doe - I got attached to her....

....only to check her one day and go "OH NO...". 

That's right - she'd developed boy bits.

But I'd already lost my heart to "her". 

So that is why I have a single mane chestnut buck in my herd - even though I don't really work with single manes or chestnuts.

Peg


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## polly (Oct 28, 2007)

LOL i have to try and behave myself cause their is always 1 in nearly every litter that does that to me Billy was one of them and this blue otter is another and i am meant to be concentrating on the nethies!!


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## TinysMom (Oct 28, 2007)

Boy do I feel foolish...

I was going through old photos and Harriet is a double mane - not a single mane. It is his half sister Anissa that is a single mane.

Here is a picture of what a double mane rabbit will look like as it gets older:










These are two different chestnuts - different moms and dads....Harriet is the bigger one - the smaller one went to live at a fellow breeder's place..

Peg


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## TinysMom (Oct 28, 2007)

Here are some more photos - these were taken at the same time as the two photos up above..

Can you figure out which ones are single mane (hint: look for smooth flanks) and which ones are double mane?




a. harlequin




b. fawn




c. Orange




d. Frosty (if I remember right)


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## polly (Oct 28, 2007)

Are the orange and Harlequin single manes Fawn a double and Frosty needs to come live with me :biggrin2:


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## TinysMom (Oct 28, 2007)

Partly right.

The harlequin is a single mane. There is one double mane in the group but you did not guess it. Frosty went on to live in a pet home....and is now over 2 years old I imagine.

Peg
*
polly wrote: *


> Are the orange and Harlequin single manes Fawn a double and Frosty needs to come live with me :biggrin2:


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## MsBinky (Oct 29, 2007)

Hehe

Sorry I couldn't reply earlier. I was away. Lionheads are really really interesting. I think if I would ever have gone into breeding, I would have picked those and rexes. :biggrin2:

Well it turns out my lionhead indeed has a mane. Not a double, a single. I was pleasantly surprised actually. Hehehe. It will probably grow out but hopefully it keeps some fluff The breeder took pics yesterday and sent them to me. 

Hmm ok I wanna play too 

I say the orange is the double because it has a darker V shape... (Watch me be waaaay off).


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## TinysMom (Oct 29, 2007)

*:woohoo:woohoo:woohoo

:bouquet:

*A big round of applause for MsBinky - she is right.

Although the orange is stretched out and looks longer and stuff - that darker V shape is where the flank/skirting came in later on. 

He was a gorgeous rabbit and I loved him dearly....he was the one rabbit I lost when I had an issue with our feed and almost lost a bunch of my herd (I had a lot of stillbirths and other problems going on too). His name was Aslan.*



MsBinky wrote: *


> I say the orange is the double because it has a darker V shape... (Watch me be waaaay off).


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## MsBinky (Oct 29, 2007)

Awww lol woohoo! I got it right! I'm learning! Yaaaay!

I'm sorry to hear about Aslan though


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## polly (Oct 29, 2007)

Have you got new pics Miss Binky that we can see cause i love your new babies colouring


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## MsBinky (Oct 29, 2007)

http://msbinky.vox.com/

Pics :biggrin2:I'm thrilled :biggrin2:


I'm so happy you love the coloring! Hehehe, I'm so excited about having such a different bunny :biggrin2:


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## TinysMom (Oct 29, 2007)

I meant to tell you - I LOVE your rabbit's coloring and I love the story about how you got him. That is so neat.

Peg


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## MsBinky (Oct 29, 2007)

Thank you Peg! I wish you were closer so I could adopt some from you in the future when we have our home I really find lionheads neat, the more I learn about them , the more they grow on me.


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