# Stasis, pineapple juice & Critical Care



## Azerane

Hello there, I realise there's a billion threads on the stasis issue, but I have a few particular questions. Bandit and I have just come back from the vet and I just wanted to double check a few things. I'll give you a bit of the history first.

Yesterday, I noticed Bandit was a little gassy and had a few slightly mushy poos, not a lot, but still enough for concern. He only gets a salad in the morning, so I decided that when I fed him this morning, I would cut out the bok choy and brussel sprouts to see if it helped. I put him in his hutch last night at around 9pm with a clean litter tray. This morning at about 5:40am I went out to feed him and there wasn't a single poo or any pee in his litter tray. Obviously cause for concern. I fed him his salad and while he wasn't super enthused about eating, he did eat. At that time of the morning there wasn't much I could do except go to work and wait until the vet opened. On my "lunch" break at work 8:40am, I drove home to check on Bandit. He had eaten all his salad and pellets and there was some poo and pee in his litter tray, a good sign. If there had still been nothing, I was going to take him to the vet immediately. But since there was some, I went back to work and made an appointment for 1pm which we just got back from.

The vet said there's a lot in his gut, but that she couldn't feel many pellets. She gave him subcutaneous fluids and also a Metamide injection (which I'm assuming is similar or the same to the Metacam that people on here mention). I now have a bag of critical care for him which I'm somehow supposed to get in him 

Now, here's my main question, she (the vet) suggested I mix the CC with some pineapple juice because the enzymes in it are good to help break down the stuff in his stomach. I did ask her whether the sugars would make things worse but she said it would be fine as it's such a small amount. So what I'm wondering is if I should definitely give the CC with pineapple juice, I was going to look for unsweetened tinned pineapple and use the juice from that. Should I perhaps use just a tiny bit of pineapple juice for taste and a little bit of water instead? Or am I fine to just go with the pineapple juice?

Also, any additional tips on looking after a stasis bunny would be great. He's currently in his set-up in the laundry with fresh hay and a clean litter tray so I know when he goes. He's reasonably lively, and I feel like it was caught in a reasonable time since he's also picking at hay a little, but I know getting his tummy moving again to form some pellets is the biggest hurdle. Is it a good idea to try and keep him moving around to stimulate stomach movement? And also, because pellets lack any moisture, is it a good idea to still give them to him today in his treat ball? Or should I just focus on getting the CC in him and having him eat some hay?

Also, I may have missed when she said it, but I don't recall her saying how long I should be giving the critical care to him, just today and then stop if he starts pooping like normal, or should I give it for a couple of days. She told me that she's there until 7pm tonight so can ring her anytime if I had any more questions.


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## JBun

Is he still eating a fair amount on his own?


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## Azerane

I don't think he ate much overnight, but at the moment he seems to be eating ok (though he's still settling down after the scary vet trip). I just offered him large a piece of hay from his pile and he took it and ate it straight away without any troubles at all. Although obviously one piece of hay isn't a fair amount, but willingness to eat shows to me that he would likely just go and eat if he felt like it.

EDIT: Make that a yes, he's just situated himself next to his hay pile to eat some.


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## JBun

Critical care is a feeding supplement to give your rabbit when it's not eating at all, or is eating very little. If your rabbit is eating fairly well on it's own then there is no need to be force feeding your rabbit. As for adding pineapple juice to it, I've heard of it being helpful, but personally I feel that when dealing with stasis, that you should be minimizing sugars as much as possible, as sugars and starches feed the bad bacteria that is often causing the stasis in the first place. So putting more sugar in your rabbit is just going to make it worse. But I think your case may be slightly different, because it seems very likely that it was one or more of the veggies that caused the gas and the stasis, so I don't think that a gut flora imbalance would be happening in this instance. Though if the gut doesn't get moving right away, then bad bacteria could start taking over. 

You may be ok feeding a small amount of pellets, but I would encourage hay eating as much as possible. That is going to get the gut moving better than anything. I would avoid starches and sugars for now. If you feed any greens stick with ones that are the least likely to cause upset, like leafy lettuces, cilantro, parsley. And avoid all cruciferous veggies, including the leafy ones, like turnip greens, bok choy, and kale. If he will eat a good amount of hay and quite a few of his pellets, and is drinking ok, you will probably be fine without the critical care. If you feel like he isn't eating enough, then do the critical care. The pineapple juice is up to you. If it were me, I wouldn't. Critical care does have a small amount of papaya and pineapple already in it. 

The metamide is a gut stimulant. It would have been good if the vet had sent you home with some metacam(meloxicam) as it is really important to get the pain under control. That will help get your rabbit eating on it's own, better than anything else. If you can still get to the vet, call and ask if you can pick some up. Make sure they give you a suspension liquid. Also, if your rabbit seems uncomfortable still, giving simethicone to get the gas under control, is also very important. You should be able to get it otc as infant gas relief. Dosage is 1cc every hour for 3 hours, then every 3-8 hours as needed. So if your rabbit is still reluctant to eat on it's own and still seems to feel uncomfortable, simethicone and metacam, and critical care if he won't eat much. Make sure he is staying warm, as their temps will sometimes drop with stasis. Also don't try and force feed him until he is warmed up. You can use a warm pack or warm towels. Tummy massages also help, and letting him run around as much as he wants to, helps stimulate the gut. This article expains the whole stasis thing really well.

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

If you don't already, give him a water dish to drink out of. Rabbits usually drink more that way. And make sure he's drinking. Moisture is very important to get the gut moving.

Edited to add: Watch to see if he eats a bunch of hay. If he does, and is drinking ok, I would just keep an eye on his behavior, and look for signs he is starting to feel uncomfortable again, otherwise, just let him eat and he may be fine and already feeling good and recovering ok, without having to give him any more meds.


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## Azerane

Thanks so much for your responses. He has had a bit to drink (he has a water bowl), I know he drank just before we left for the vet, and any time I give him greens, because I always wash them first there's always water droplets on them, every little bit counts. I may give him a dose of critical care, just to help him along a bit and see how it goes. I'm still undecided about the pineapple juice though, but if I do I'll look for unsweetened if they have it.

At the moment he doesn't really seem uncomfortable, he did yesterday when he was sitting a little funny and was a bit gassy, but not at the moment. He's not cold at all, another reason I actually have him inside is because it's much too hot outside for him today.

Is it weird that after he was sitting in his litter tray munching hay for 5-10 mins, that when I heard him jump out I excitedly ran over to look? lol. He left some little bunny poos in there. A small handful I suppose, some normal size and shape, some a bit darker which are a little smaller and softer. I'm guessing these droppings are the ones that the vet would have felt when feeling his gut. How long should I expect it to take for more pellets to form for him to pass? In a little bit I might try a tummy massage and give a dose of the critical care.


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## JBun

I think the pineapple juice is used for the enzymes, to supposedly break up hair that is causing an obstruction, and the enzymes only work if the pineapple is fresh. But since your rabbit got stasis from eating veggies, I'm not sure why the vet would be suggesting it. But whatever you think is best.

And no. It's not weird for anyone on this forum to get excited about rabbit poop. Most of us are the same. It's a really good indication of how a rabbit is doing health wise, as a lot of health problems will affect a rabbits poop, and it can tip you off that something is wrong with your bun. I always keep a close eye on my rabbits poop, each day when I clean out their litter boxes.

There's nothing better than a nice pile of fecal pellets, when your rabbit hasn't been pooping for a while. If your rabbit is pooping( and they are starting to look more like normal ones) and eating well, then I would say that he is probably ok now, but you still want to keep an eye on him and make sure that he continues to improve. He'll start pooping more as he starts eating more.

Also, it would probably be a good idea to not give him cruciferous veggies any more, as he apparently is sensitive to them. I don't know why some rabbit veggie webpages, say that those kind of veggies don't affect rabbits the same way as people. I've heard of, and read of, several instances of those kind of veggies causing problems for rabbits.


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## Imbrium

IF you mix pineapple juice into the critical care (I really can't say if the enzyme benefits would outweigh the sugar... though I'm leaning towards the motility med he was given being enough, especially since he seems to be feeling better), it needs to be fresh - NOT canned. the canning process denatures the enzymes, so you'd be adding sugar without getting any of the good stuff in exchange.

if he seems to have a fairly normal appetite, I'd skip the critical care entirely.

given that his issues seem to be gas-induced, I would cut the brussel sprouts out of his diet entirely, especially since it's considered a non-leafy green that should be very limited anyway. as for bok choy, only give SMALL amounts of it and only give it infrequently... assuming he tolerates small amounts ok, otherwise cut it completely. here's a good list of cruciferous veggies (the kinds that can cause gas) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruciferous_vegetables - anything "rabbit safe" that's on that list will need to be fed sparingly if he's prone to gas problems.

I'm glad he seems to be doing better - hopefully he'll be back to himself in no time!


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## Azerane

^Thanks, I had already cut out the bok choy and brussel sprouts this morning and intended to do for some time, if not forever. I may have introduced the bok choy a little quickly, which may be part of it. In any case, if I do try bok choy again, it will be in much smaller amounts and nowhere near as often.

Thanks for all the feedback and advice, it's helping me get through. I was a nervous wreck in the 2 1/2 hours I was at work this morning, waiting until I could make a trip home to check his litter tray.

Wish I'd double-checked the thread a moment earlier, I just gave him some Critical Care. It says 1 part formula to two parts water, so I used 1 part formula, 1 part water and 1 part pineapple juice. It made just over a tablespoon. I was curious so I simply held it out to him, he ate 3/4 of it straight off the spoon, then snubbed the rest, lol. I figured since he was happy enough simply to eat it himself that he's well enough that I don't need to force feed him the rest. The good thing is that he shunned the last bit of critical care for hay instead. Funny about the enzymes, the vet seemed to think that canned pineapple was still good in that regard, it's a pity because I just had half a fresh pineapple two days ago. Now I just hope the sugars don't mess with him too much. It was a decision between whether the sugars made things worse, or whether I ignored the vet's advice and still ended up with a sicker bunny at which point I would have to tell her that I ignored her advice and listened instead to the advice of people on the internet, haha. Not sure it would go down so well 

He's sitting in his litter tray munching at hay again, so I'm hoping for another good result! And just as I write that he hops out... more bunny poos, yay!! No squishy ones that I can see this time.


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## Imbrium

wonderful! it takes a bunny person to understand the joy of poop, lol.


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## ladysown

you need to use FRESH pineapple juice not canned. It helps to break down blockages. Feeding papaya tablets can do the same.

The pineapple juice will NOT hurt him and will indeed help him.

If your bun is prone to getting tummy upset/gut stasis you could...


1. Once or twice a week give him some fresh pineapple juice to drink
Or
2. add some apple cider vinegar to his water (needs to be real apple cider vinegar)


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## Azerane

^I've just been reading that in other places online now too. A bit late, but he seems to be doing alright in terms of eating anyway, so I wasn't going to give any more critical care than the stuff I had already given.

More eating and bunny poos  He's also been playing a bit, which is good. He hasn't done any binkies but he's done some happy hops with silly head flicks. He played the "sick bunny" card on me so now gets to stay inside all night instead of going out to his hutch, don't tell the landlord :shhhh: lol

It will make it easier for me to check on him if I want/need to though, and I figure the extra room to run around for a while longer will help with the movement of his gut, rather than being in his hutch. Obviously it's not an "oh he's pooping again, he must be better" thing, I'm assuming it'll be a couple of days before I can really consider him over the stasis, is that right?

I feel so silly for letting him get ill, I felt like I was doing everything so well and then this, but I suppose it's a good thing to learn from, just re-evaluate and change things to make them better. So glad he's going to be ok. Hoping to see a big pile of poo when I get up for work in the morning


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## ladysown

> I feel so silly for letting him get ill, I felt like I was doing everything so well and then this, but I suppose it's a good thing to learn from, just re-evaluate and change things to make them better.



Not sure what you mean here by "letting him" get ill.
You didn't MAKE him ill. He got ill on his own.
What you did was get him better.
AND learned that your bun in genetically predisposed to not handling cruciferous veggies well.

Go on from there and stop feeling silly. You were responsive to your rabbits needs and that's all that matters.


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## missyscove

Some buns are just more prone to stasis than others. 

The Metamide is metaclopromide which is a gut motility drug. I've given it for as long as a week in a rabbit with stasis. 

I've personally never added pineapple juice to my critical care, although I do have some of those oxbow papaya enzyme tablets which they get on occasion. 
http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/products/type/detail?object=1702

I usually force feed the critical care until they're eating their regular diet normally on their own when offered, and it sounds like your bun is already there.


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## Azerane

Right, so Bandit seemed to be doing quite a bit better later into yesterday. I cleaned out his litter tray at around 10pm, went to bed and checked it again at about 5:15 this morning, absolutely nothing in there again overnight. Obviously I got quite concerned, however 5 minutes later he'd left a small handful of pellets. Since then, he hasn't done very many pellets, I think there was another small handful between 6 and 10am, but between 10am and 2:25pm (now), he's only done about a dozen, I feel like he should have done more? He's still eating hay, but I'd like to see him eat a little more. He hasn't really seemed uncomfortable, and I bought some smithecone (or whatever the infant gas drop stuff is), but he hasn't been gassy since I bought it, should I still give him some?

I've been taking a log of things when I've noticed him eating/drinking/pooping etc to kind of track it, of course I can't watch him every second so I've obviously missed when he's been drinking (the level in the bowl keeps going down), but here it is if it's of any interest. I feel like today he's slowed down a little in the pooping department, but is it possible that there was more yesterday afternoon/evening because he'd had a build up in his gut? I'm probably just paranoid that he's not going enough now, he seems relatively happy. The trouble is I didn't keep track of exactly when and and how much he did when he was healthy 

Sunday, sitting awkwardly, gassy
Sunday Night, between 10pm and Monday morning 5:30am, no poo.
MONDAY:
5:30am ate his (modified) salad and food pellets, though not enthusiastically.
By 9am Mon there were two small handfuls of pellets.
12:30pm drank water, ate some hay
1pm trip to vet. Metomide injection and sub-cutaneous fluids.
3:15pm, eating hay and small handful of pellets, some darker soft ones
3:55pm drank water
4:30pm gave roughly 1 tablespoon of critical care mixed with 1 part water and 1 part pineapple juice (canned)
4:40pm eating more hay, more pellets, less soft ones than before
By 5:50pm, more poo, more eating hay
6:30pm eating hay and food pellets, poo more pellets
6:50pm drank water
7-8:15pm more eating
9:25pm drank water, ate food pellets
10:10pm pellets in litter tray
10:30pm more water
TUESDAY (today):
5:15am no pellets/pee since night before
5:30am handful of pellets in litter tray, ate salad, pellets and hay, binkies 
8:45am ate hay
10am-2:25pm 12-ish pellets
2pm eating hay
2:40pm (Now) eating hay, eating pellets, peed and small amount of pellets, half a dozen or now.


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## JBun

Remember that he is going to probably be pooping a little less because he wasn't eating for a while and then hasn't been eating his normal amount. When my rabbit had stasis, it took him two days to finally start pooping, but then he stopped again and it took another two days of hand feeding him before he started pooping again. So, I would think that as long as your bun is eating a fair amount still, and continues to poop, then he is still doing good. It can take a few days for them to get back up to normal. As long as he's eating, then he will be pooping too. But always keep an eye out for changes in eating or behavior. If he doesn't seem like he is feeling uncomfortable from gas pains, then giving simethicone isn't really going to do anything for him, but it shouldn't hurt either, if you feel like he needs it.


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## Azerane

Ok, thanks so much  I've noticed that though he's still eating, he's not eating a huge amount, but if I go in there with him and hand feed him strands of hay he seems fairly eager to eat and will sit there taking strand after strand from me.


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## missyscove

I'm more worried when they don't eat than when they don't poop. One of their big ways they'll show that they're in pain is by not eating so if he's happily munching away then he probably feels pretty good. 
The simethicone basically can't hurt. It may not help, but there's no harm in giving it just in case.


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## Chrisdoc

Sorry to see he´s been off colour but good to see he seems to be getting back to his old self. Having a bunny who´s not well is awful but with the right care, they can pull through fine. Yes, we all get excited about poops, it´s one of our favourite topics and good, round, even poops are good to see.

Keep us updated but he seems to be eating hay and drinking and I´m sure he´ll be binkying about in no time.


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## Azerane

Well, it seems I got my Bandit back again. I brought him inside after work and he raced through his tunnel and did a few funny little binkies. Now he's having fun destroying his hidey box. 

Thanks once again, not only are you all a wealth of information and support, but you kept me from freaking out, lol.


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## DeepSeaGoddess

The vet I go to doesn't believe the pineapple really does anything except the moisture of it aids....he doesn't believe that pineapple breaks down anything but, it is the moisture that they are getting from it that helps. That said, I give my bunnies a fresh pineapple chunk as a treat every night, yes I used to believe it helped break stuff down but, they LOVE it, and since the moisture certainly can't hurt, them I give them one every night.

Whenever this happens to either of mine, I try to get as much fluids in them as I can through a syringe...yes that is fresh pineapple juice and water some times as well as now I keep critical care on hand in case I need to syringe feed them. I also give baby mylecon (simethicone drops) and metacam (pain meds) if I have them. Usually it only lasted a day or so with my bunnies and they bounced back pretty quickly however, the last time with my Lucy, it went for many days...to the point that she saw the vet 4 times and I doubted him when he kept thinking it wasn't her teeth but in fact her gut (long story in another thread). I should not have doubted him, she is her normal self and he was right...it wasn't her teeth. He didn't want to rush and just put her under anesthesia to file teeth......I'm glad he didn't because it wasn't her teeth after all. 

But, just wanted to point out the opinion of my vet...that the pineapple itself doesn't do anything but the moisture they get from eating it or the juice certainly helps. Is this true or false? I don't know....they still love fresh pineapple so I give them one.:bunnydance:


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## Azerane

I'm still a little concerned about Bandit. He's pooping well, though they seem to be a little smaller than usual, and still sometimes during the day they can be a little soft. I spread his pellet amount over several times during the day, the pellets that I gave him this morning, he still hadn't finished eating at around 7pm, and usually he devours his pellets, he hasn't been eating them all from his treat ball either. He's still eating hay (hard to tell if it's less than normal at the moment), eats his salad no problem, and the salad is less than it was because I cut it down a little. He doesn't seem gassy at all, and no loud tummy gurgles, but I still feel like something's not right. Maybe it's paranoia, who knows. He's also doing these funny little stretches, he'll be sitting upright and will stretch his front legs as well as his back legs out in front of him while yawning/gaping. I've never noticed him doing it before until a couple of days ago, and maybe it's just because I've been observing him more, but it just seems a little odd to me.


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## Imbrium

it's not that uncommon for a rabbit to occasionally go off pellets for a couple days - as long as he's eating hay and veggies, I wouldn't worry too much.

did he get back to eating pellets normally after his bout with stasis and now he's stopped eating them again... or did he never really get back to eating them normally to begin with? if it's the latter, most people find that pellets are the very last thing their rabbits get back to eating normally after they've been sick or had surgery or whatever else might've interfered with their appetite for a bit.

I think I forgot to mention it earlier in the thread... have you tried giving him some probiotics? (bene-bac, probios, that sort of thing; you can sometimes buy them from petco or a feed store and failing that, they can be found online (heck, I sell 'em in my online store )) probiotics can be quite helpful for a variety of tummy/GI issues and at the very least, they can't hurt.

Nala actually yawns that same way fairly often, it's super adorable!

if you're really worried, you can always call the vet and see if they think you should bring him back in or just keep a close eye on him for now.


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## Azerane

Imbrium said:


> it's not that uncommon for a rabbit to occasionally go off pellets for a couple days - as long as he's eating hay and veggies, I wouldn't worry too much.
> 
> did he get back to eating pellets normally after his bout with stasis and now he's stopped eating them again... or did he never really get back to eating them normally to begin with? if it's the latter, most people find that pellets are the very last thing their rabbits get back to eating normally after they've been sick or had surgery or whatever else might've interfered with their appetite for a bit.
> 
> I think I forgot to mention it earlier in the thread... have you tried giving him some probiotics? (bene-bac, probios, that sort of thing; you can sometimes buy them from petco or a feed store and failing that, they can be found online (heck, I sell 'em in my online store )) probiotics can be quite helpful for a variety of tummy/GI issues and at the very least, they can't hurt.



He has shown a lot of interest in pellets after his stasis, but never as much as he had before, so perhaps you are right that he simply just hasn't gotten back into the swing of things yet.

I haven't tried a probiotic either, will have to look at the feed store here and see if they sell any, that way I have it on hand if I need it. So you can give them whenever you think their tummy is upset? Just to help balance out the bacteria?



Imbrium said:


> Nala actually yawns that same way fairly often, it's super adorable!



Oh it is adorable, it just concerned me because I'd never seen him do it before, then it was several times in one day. Glad to know Bandit isn't the only one though. Also, Nala is a great name, assuming named after the Lion King, my favourite Disney movie


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## Imbrium

yeah - probiotics are very safe and help make sure that there's enough good bacteria in the digestive system


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## tonyshuman

I would look for probiotics for sure, and make sure there are no tooth issues or sores in the mouth (if possible). They may have to sedate him to get a good look in there, but it's probably worth it since going off pellets is commonly caused by problems with the molars.


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## Azerane

So, I tried getting some simethicone into Bandit because he's been a little gassy today and still has some soft pellets. What I'm wondering, is how on earth do I successfully get the whole 1ml/cc inside him, lol. We probably only got about .2ml in him. My fiance just noticed that on this website http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html it says to use 1-2cc (20mg/ml suspension), and he read that ours is actually 100mg/ml suspension, so that means we only need to be getting .2ml into Bandit when we give it to him right? Just as well I hardly got any in.

I would appreciate some tips on how to best hold him though. I had him on my lap, with his bum against my stomach and my left arm along his side and holding his neck/head while dosing with the right. Trouble is, he flicks his head around too easily. Also, bunny mouths are much too small and hard to access 

Edit: I will try looking for a probiotic tomorrow, I don't think it's his teeth as when he had his health check just over a month ago they looked at them, then when I took him into the vet last week for his stasis she also checked his teeth to make sure there was nothing wrong.


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## JBun

Yeah, it's hard to remember that simethicone might be a different concentration in different countries, so it sounds like you ended up doing the right dosage anyway. Supposedly even if it's overdosed short term, it's not going to do any harm. You can try burrito wrapping him to give meds, some rabbits are really squirmy. I have a smaller rabbit, and I just held his head neck area firmly, and squirted it slowly, in the side of his mouth, but he didn't fight me too much, and now he loves the taste of it and takes it willingly. 

I would think that he should be feeling all better by now. Are you still feeding any veggies every day, and have you decreased his pellet amounts at all? With him still having soft poop, you may want to try cutting veggies out of his diet for a couple days, to see if that clears up the soft poop. It may be that one of them is still causing a problem for him.

You may be able to find probiotic gel at a feed store, pet store, or even a vet office. You can even use a non dairy one used for people.


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## missyscove

Azerane said:


> So, I tried getting some simethicone into Bandit because he's been a little gassy today and still has some soft pellets. What I'm wondering, is how on earth do I successfully get the whole 1ml/cc inside him, lol. We probably only got about .2ml in him. My fiance just noticed that on this website http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html it says to use 1-2cc (20mg/ml suspension), and he read that ours is actually 100mg/ml suspension, so that means we only need to be getting .2ml into Bandit when we give it to him right? Just as well I hardly got any in.



That's correct. I've only ever seen it in 20 mg/ml, but if yours is 100 mg/ml you wouldn't need as much. 

Are you using a syringe? I'll usually sit on the floor with my knees up by my chest and pin my rabbits between my knees and chest. 
Wrapping him in a blanket like a bunny burrito might help too.


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## Imbrium

if you skip to near the end of this video on syringe-feeding, she shows how to give meds:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iGZVYVm5Bg[/ame]

the gist of it is to hold him still and stick the syringe in the gap between his front and back teeth and squirt the meds in sideways


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## Azerane

Thanks for the advice guys and the link to the vid, most complying rabbit I've ever seen, lol. I actually managed to get the second dose into him by putting it on a piece of parsley, since it was quite thick it just sat on top and Bandit happily ate the parsley, no fuss, no mess. About an hour after the second dose he seemed to have picked up quite a bit, whether it was simply the time of day I'm not sure, but he was very alert and curious, a bit more so than he has been recently I think.

Previously, I had reduced the size of his salad quite substantially (since I cut out the bok choy), but this morning I had actually cut out his salad altogether because of the ongoing troubles. I hadn't changed the amount of pellets, should I have? He's been well today though, all of his droppings have been pretty much normal in size/shape/consistency and less smelly. Will give him a couple of weeks and then pick one green to try re-introducing him too, except this time I'm going to go snail's pace slow!


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## JBun

I just asked about the pellets cause if taking away greens didn't get his poop back to normal, the next thing to try is reducing pellets. Glad to hear he's doing good.


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## Imbrium

yeah, it's a nice video as far as showing the gist of things, but I thought it would've been *far* more helpful if the rabbit used wasn't so calm and compliant about the whole process, lol.

how much pellets are you feeding him? if it's within the HRS guidelines (1/4-1/2c per 5 lbs body weight per day), then I see no reason to decrease them as long as his poops are looking the way they should.


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## Geoff

Not sure how many other posts you all have read about GI stasis and I hate to bore you with repeating myself again and again... and just to remind you all, I am NOT a rabbit expert... just one who has been treating rabbits for many years and have been learning from the veterinary rabbit experts out there. My opinions are basically theirs, but many of their 'opinions' are based on many years of experience and factual data resulting from research they have done at the univeristies they work in, or through private funding. And my ideas about how to treat rabbits are always changing based on 1) how my rabbit patients respond to my and other's treatments and 2) the latest trends and ideas the experts write about on treating rabbit diseases. 

1. at this time there seems to be no data showing that there is any benefit whatsoever of giving rabbits pineapple or papaya juice or tablets, other than helping to maintain a certain acidity to the stomachs of rabbits that have lost their acidity for some reason or other (not a very common situation actually). Pineapple and papaya enzymes, though fairly potent, are worthless in 'digesting' or disolving hair- even products like Draino struggle with breaking down the proteins in hair and these products would NOT be good for rabbit stomachs. Many experiments, from simply putting rabbit hair in a bowl of pineapple or papaya juice for prolonged periods of time, to more sophisticated studies have pretty conclusively shown these products ineffectiveness at doing anything in terms of breaking down hair or 'hairballs'. Anyway, the presence of hair or 'hairballs' in the gi tract of a rabbit does not seem to have much, if anything, to do with GI stasis anyway. Only rarely is hair actually involved in a true blockage, and the current feeling is that these blockages with hair are only secondary problems complicating an already abnormal gastrointestinal motility resulting from improper dietary fiber intake. 

Pineapple juice is a source of water, though water itself would be preferrable. However, it is not easy sometimes to make a rabbit drink water, particularly when their guts are uncomfortable, and it is often easier to get them to drink something sweet, such as pineapple juice, instead. The benefit of the water they ingest versus the down side of all the sugar they intake doing this is a bit unclear, and I am not sure how bad just several doses of sugary fluid is for rabbits. I will just say water is always preferable over pineapple juice, IF a rabbit will drink it. 

2. As for the down side to giving rabbits pineapple juice or tablets, that is a bit more controversial. Sugar is not something a rabbit needs in their GI tract, particularly when it is not working properly, but it is not clear that it is always harmful, particurlarly in small amounts. Sugars, like those found in these fruits, are not ideal for the rabbit liver, either. Probably very small amounts of sugary treats are not that harmful but still not recommended.

3. Though I have said this several times, pellets are NOT considered necessary for rabbits. And a rabbit suffering from some gastrointestinal malady, such as ileus/gut stasis should probably not be getting ANY pellets at all. A gut that is slow or 'stopped' benefits from the presence of long fibers and moisture, neither found in pellets. If you insist in feeding your rabbits pellets, at least stop when/if they are showing any signs of stasis such as decreased appetite, small or scant stools, bloating, abdominal pain, decreased water consumption etc. Most of the veterinary rabbit specialists are in the 'no pellet' boat right now, though it took them some time to get there. But I don't know if they are all militantly NO PELLETs yet. Some are, but most are a bit less adamant about this part of a rabbit's diet. So if I see a client's rabbit that has no digestive issues whatsoever, and they are feeding their rabbit a small amount of pellets regularly, I try not to argue with them. But if their rabbit had a history of gut stasis, even once, I would urge them to adopt a pellet-free diet from that point on. Better to avoid gut stasis altogether than have to treat it over and over again. I have very few rabbit patients that suffer from gut stasis that eat only hay and greens and get plenty of exercise. I do sometimes see rabbits a bit on the thin side on these diets and sometimes I see some weight gain with a few added pellets a day. Those are the exceptions rather than the rule, though.

4. Speaking of exercise, I think it is one of the more overlooked part of a rabbits care. Rabbits that move around a lot and keep 'fit' tend to have less abnormal gastrointestinal episodes. Whether this is just my feeling about this, or actual fact, I cannot say.. yet. but I think we need to try harder sometimes to get rabbits to be more active (without stressing them out of course). 

5. the use of Metoclopramide (Metamide) or Reglan is also controversial now (something I didn't think a few years ago). I had always assumed all those rabbits I treated with this motility modifier that got better from my treatment, were benefitting from the use of this drug. Until I read that a lot of the experts now felt this product did nothing useful for rabbits at all. So I reluctantly stopped using it and noticed my patients were improving despite my not using it... which means all the other patients in the past were getting better despite my using it. In other words, I don't think I did much, if any harm, using it, but nor do I believe anymore that it was really helping, either. If your veterinarian wants to treat your rabbits' GI problems with metoclopromide, I don't really see how it is harmful (unless, under those few circumstances when there is a physical blockage or true bloat... then it might be a problem)... but it's use is coming under question nowadays.

Anyway, those are my random comments about rabbit GI stasis today. I am glad your rabbit is better and I sure hope it stays that way.


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## molly

I agree with everything Geoff said, I wish more people would realize just how harmful pellets can be (especially if fed in too large quantities) and how important exercise is. 

I do think papaya tablets are worth giving though. There isn't clinical evidence they work but there does seem to be a benefit in some rabbits (my vet has told me this and we have seen that they often do make a difference with the shelter buns) and they're unlikely to do harm.


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## mikenyny

My male Lionhead - aged 1 1/2 yrs - gradually stopped taking his evening snack: apple peel, and pretty quickly (2 or 3 days) I realised it was because he couldn't bite/chew. Took him to the vet and she said he had malocclusion in his front middle (2) teeth; they were bowing outwards. She said it was not a big problem and proceeded to cut them; she did this in 2 goes: one, then the second and visa versa. I night add that this was the standby vet, as the full-time one had a day off. (Hus weight had dropped from the usual 2.5 kg to 2.2 kg).
I took him home and he was eating better, but only 50% odd, but this gradually tailed off after a week or so, so I took him back to the vet; the full-time one was there then. She had another go at cutting the teeth: one was slightly longer than the other. (His weight was now 2 kg). I took him home again, but he wasn't eating much better, so I took him back to the vet a 3rd time. This time, she had another vet in attendance - who visited there twice a week. This time the again cut his teeth, but the new vet filed them down as well. (His weight was 1.9 kg).
I might add that during this time, he was drinking (water) like crazy, and I noticed that while refilling his bowl - 3-5 times a day - that it was dirty, in that he seemed to continually be flushing out his mouth. However, his overall appearance was bad, he was looking ill and furthermore the fur under his jaw was permanently wet due to him drooling. 
I was looking online almost daily by this time, and the thing I kept coming up with (rabbit drinks but doesn't eat) was Gi Statis, so I again took him to the vet, informing her of the rabbit's general condition and she almost immediately came up with "Gi Statis". She said she needed to Xray his stomach. The result showed that he was totally full of gas, and she said this was the reason he wasn't eating. (His weight was now 1.7 kg). She prescribed me the Critical care powder, but wasn't much use in her advice on how to give it: saying to mix it 1 part to 2 parts of water. This proved impossible to administer with the largest size syringe: too thick. I soon found that the thing to do was to mix it 1 part CC to 3 parts or 4 (warm/hot) water and then shake the plastic bottle vigorously to mix it up, let it cool and them fill the syringe. My procedure for administering the CC is as follows: 
Have the syringe already filled and resting on a plate on a low (plastic garden furniture-type) table. Have a chair by the table. Pick up the rabbit and sit down with him resting on your lap, so that (if you are right-handed) his head is facing your left side. Very important: Start rubbing his belly with the fingers of your right hand and do this for a few minutes. Now you can start with the CC; lift / support the front of his body with your right hand and syringe in the CC with your left hand. You can also keep rubbing his belly with your right hand. As soon as he starts taking the CC, his stomach will start rumbling. 
I kept this procedure up for a week or so, but he wasn't getting any better; in fact he was further deteriorating, and his jaw was soaked permanently. I might add that on 2 occasions in the afternoon, he went to lay down in a place the other side of the garden where he hardly ever visited and lay down behind a large plant pot. In fact, my wife was worried one day because she couldn't find him. On each occasion, I brought him back to the other side of the house and admistered the CC. I again took him to the vet and told her about his worsening condition and asked her to Xray his jaw/teeth. She actually (couldn't believe it) this and said just to bring him back in one week's time. I repeated my suggestion/request, but she wasn't interested. The funny thing was that there weren't any other people with animals in the waiting room. 
Exactly 6 days later - I was away - my wife called me and said she was en-route to the vets with the rabbit. I told her to wait till tomorrow because I was going to take him to the "animal hospital" (as opposed to this vet clinic). She said no, so I told her to take him to the animal hospital - and not to bother with the vet clinic as they were a total waste of time. 
To cut a long story short, his back-upper molars ALSO HAD MALOCCLUSION. He was scheduled for an opperation to cut these back 2 days later, and had the operation successfully. I have been nursing him back to health, giving him 5 medicines twice a day. Right now, exactly six days after his operation, he has regained his strenght, increased his weight (a little) totally ceased drooling and he is eating like there is not tomorrow!


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## JBun

I am SO glad you finally found a vet that knew what they were doing, that found and corrected your buns problems. This is why it is so important to always advocate for your bun. You know your bun best and not many vets really are rabbit knowledgeable. Sometimes as owners, we have to push for the correct treatment to be done. I can't believe the first vets didn't check the molars.

I'm very glad your bun is doing better now


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## mikenyny

Three weeks after he had his molars cut (under GA), he started to slow down on the evening apple-peel again, so I took him back to the doctor at the animal hospital. She said that it was the same problem again: the back molars, and she would need me to leave him there for the day to cut them again. 
This I did; they called when he had recovered and she told me she had cut the 2 molars and one of the front teeth that had outgrown the other one. Took him home and he needed the same encouragement again to get him to eat: finely chopped food, porridge 3 times a day (instead of just for breakfast) and thinly sliced PEELED apple in the evenings. It took just over a week this time before he resumed normal eating; reason being I think that the doctor had cut the molars shorter this time (maybe she was thinking of my medical costs), but he got back to normal again and gained more weight. I also now include (tinned) pineapple now as a treat: half on one circular slices with some juice. He isn't interested in fresh pineapple at all!
I am continually monitoring his eating and he hasn't started showing any signs of the malocclusion yet - 4 weeks and counting.


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## mikenyny

Six months in; Fluffy now weighs 2.5 to 2.6 kg, something which I still can't believe - considering he was down to 1.7 kg last September/October. I take him monthly to the doc at the animal hospital to check his teeth. The last 2 times (Feb. and April - missed May), she gave him a local and cut a strange solitary tooth at the back of his mouth - and presented me with the evidence on each occasion. 
Footnote: He is now a dad - with his sister (I know, but everything is fine and the 2 kits - boy and girl - are absolutely perfect. I was going to get him neutered - took him on the 18th of April and the doc said the earliest she could do it was on the 30th at 5:00 pm, and that she could cut his tooth at the same time. This actually worked out fine, because in the end - after much consideration - I DECIDED AGAINST IT, and am very happy with my decision. 
The thing is, I had his grandad (a Baby Rex) neutered after he had fathered two lots of babies, and I ended up being sorry I did; the thing is, besides for him getting two urinary tract infections in 2 weeks, immediately afterwards, he became very docile (too docile) and basically sleeps most of the time. To sum it all up, he is only half the man he used to be - and I am to blame.


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