# Gus is dribbling pee



## funnybunnymummy (Jul 30, 2011)

Gus has started dribbling pee on the floor the last couple days, and his vent area is damp. I'm taking him to the vet in about half-an-hour to have him looked at. The vet gave me some black stuff (missed the name of it) to put into his cleaned out litter box and a syringe to take a sample of his urine. I did that yesterday and will be taking the sample with me.

I've been doing a bit of reading online and Medi-Rabbit (I think it was) mentioned an antibiotic: Chloramphenicol. Should I ask for that, if it turns out to be a UTI? Or just go with Baytril, if that's what the vet recommends?

Thanks guys!

Rue


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## Pipp (Jul 30, 2011)

I'd trust the vet on this one. 

(Who is your vet?) 

UTI's aren't too difficult to get rid of and certain antibiotics work better for certain things, and I'm not sure about UTI's.


sas :clover:


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## Pipp (Jul 30, 2011)

PS: My old vet usually prescribes Chlor Palm for just about everything, the new guy is a Baytril guy, and in general I prefer Chlor Palm, definitely, but I'm just not sure about UTI's).


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## funnybunnymummy (Jul 30, 2011)

We've been going to Dr. Walton.

He prescribed Baytril for 10 days, so hopefully that works. I don't think it's a super bad infection, since Gus only just started showing the symptoms (though I'm sure he's probably had it awhile, and just been hiding it).

He's sending the urine to the lab for testing. I don't know which lab, though, I forgot to ask. I'mguessing they'll know what to look for in rabbit urine.

He said he couldn't feel any bladder stones, but he did see some molar spurs starting on the right side. Guess we'll have to keep an eye on that, since Gus gets plenty of hay!

Thanks!

Rue


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## gmas rabbit (Jul 30, 2011)

Glad it is positive news. How about some diluted cranberry juice or just some cranberries. Lots of people use it for UTI infection or prevention.


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## naturestee (Jul 30, 2011)

I'll second the cranberries. I buy bags in the fall and toss them in the freezer. My buns eat the frozen cranberries as treats. They don't so much treat a UTI as help prevent them, but they do help. They're also plain nice as a healthy treat (and less sugar than other berries).

I don't know much about UTIs in rabbits, but I think the Baytril should be ok. Cats and humans often get amoxicillin, which rabbits can't have.


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## woahlookitsme (Jul 31, 2011)

there are tons of antibiotics to treat UTIs in dogs and cats it just depends which ones the animal is resistant or sensitive to. 
Do they do cultures to test for this in rabbits too?

I also found this. the vets have the dog and cat one on their shelf
http://books.google.com/books?id=rJ...1#v=onepage&q=urine culture in rabbit&f=false


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## funnybunnymummy (Jul 31, 2011)

Thanks, guys. I don't think they're doinga culture for drug sensitivity in Gus. Just a urinanalysis to determine if he's got a UTI or not. I'll find out on Tuesday what the results are. Just hoping they don't come back inconclusive. 

I haven't got any cranberries, but I've got some cranberry juice, so I'll give Gus a bit of that. Tomorrow I'll look into getting him someCraisins (since fresh cranberries won't be available again until September). Hopefully the benefits of the cranberries will outweigh the sugar in them. 

I've also started him on a probiotic too. The last thing we need is a bout of stasis to go along with a UTI. :rollseyes

Thanks again!

Rue


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 1, 2011)

I'm getting really worried about Gus now. When I picked him up just now and took a look under his tail, his vent area looks like it'sslightly bulged out and there appears to be a bit of blood coming out. 

Otherwise, he seems like he's in perfect health. He's hopping around, eating and drinking fine, his eyes are bright, etc. etc.

I'd call the vet, but, unfortunately, it's a holiday here today, so they're closed.

Should I be very concerned? Could the Baytril not be working? Or does he just need to be on it longer? (He's been on it since Saturday morning and has had 5 doses so far.)

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

Rue


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## Pipp (Aug 1, 2011)

I'd get him drinking as much as you can, give him a lot of veggies soaked in cold water for awhile and check for the urinalysis results tomorrow. Dr. Walton is supposed to be very good, and Baytril is supposed to be good for UTIs. 

Are you sure it's blood? Sometimes the antibiotics can change the color, so can diet.

Cranberry juice (not cocktail) is really all that works, I don't think craisins are worth the sugar, but I may be wrong on that one. 


sas :clover:


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 1, 2011)

Thanks, Sas.

I didn't occur to me that the Baytril could be changing the colour of his urine. I'll check again. You may well be right.

I've been giving him plenty of veggies, but not soaking them in water. I'll do that.

And I'll try him on the cranberry juice again. He turned his nose up atit the first time I gave it to him, but maybe I'll try soaking his veggies in it instead. He'll have to "drink" it then! :biggrin2:

Thanks!

Rue


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## naturestee (Aug 1, 2011)

Was there an x-ray done? I wonder if he has stones that couldn't be felt on palpation. It doesn't take much of a stone to cause pain or bleeding in the urethra, especially since the urethra is more narrow in males.


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 1, 2011)

No x-ray so far. I thinkthe vetwants to see what the lab results are first.

I hope it's not a stone. 

Rue


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 2, 2011)

So the vet just called me. He told me there was no sign of bacteria in Gus's urine and the white blood cell count was normal. But there was a lot of crystals and it was quite diluted.I had noticed that Gus was drinking more in the last couple weeks (like almost double what he'd normally drink!), but since we've been treating him with the Baytril, he's drinking a more normal amount. The vet wants me to get another urine sample from him and he'll do a follow up analysis of it.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Rue


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## naturestee (Aug 2, 2011)

Definitely get an x-ray. Crystals plus diluted urine makes me think of kidney stones. If blood was taken, how were the kidney values?


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 3, 2011)

No blood has been taken yet. I'll ask about that (and the x-ray) when I go in tomorrow to get the kit to do hissecond urine sample.

Thanks!

Rue


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 6, 2011)

So the results of Gus's second urine sample came back. No bacteria, no white blood cells, no blood, etc. So obviously not a UTI as we first suspected. The vet said there was still quite a bit of crystals, buthe didn't feel it was an abnormal amount for a rabbit. He's more concerned that his urine is so diluted. We're to continue the Baytril till Tuesday, then bring him back in for another examination and another urine sample.

He did mention the words "kidney failure," which have me quite worried. Gus seems 100% in perfect health, except for the dribbling pee and excess water consumption. What could cause him to go into kidney failure?

I forgot to ask about blood tests and x-rays, but maybe that's what he's got planned next.

Thanks!

Rue


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## Kipcha (Aug 6, 2011)

It seems like we're going through the exact same situation right now, except Kidney Failure is pretty much the diagnosis right now for Ty...

Good luck. I really hope you get better results then I did...


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 6, 2011)

Thanks, Amanda.

Yes, it does seem somewhat similar, doesn't it? Only Gus has no other symptoms that I can see. He seems like his usual happy self--just a bit more dribbly. 

Hope you get somebetter news about Ty.

Rue


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## Nancy McClelland (Aug 6, 2011)

ray:


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## pla725 (Aug 7, 2011)

I would ask for the x-rays and blood work. My vet usually uses Bactrum or rather the generic version for UTIs.


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## jujub793 (Aug 7, 2011)

hope Gus i feeling better soon! and you find out what the problem is so you can take the appropriate steps to fix him up


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 7, 2011)

Thanks, guys.

I'll for sure ask about blood work and/or an x-ray when we take him back in.

To be honest, I'm not sure why the vet wants to keep him on the Baytril, considering there's noevidence of infection. Maybe he figures there's something else bacterial going on somewhere else?

At least Gus likes his medicine. He tries to pull the syringe right out of my hand! Silly rabbit! :biggrin2:

Rue


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 9, 2011)

So today Iwent to make the follow up appointment for this week like the vet told me to and he's on vacation till Saturday! I was hoping to get him in either tomorrow afternoon or Thursday since he's done his Baytril today. 

I am really worrying about Gus. I wish it had just been a straight forward UTI that would clear up with antibiotics. I've been reading up on urinary issues in rabbits and every situation just doesn't sound good. I'm scared we're going to end up investing thousands of dollars trying to discover the cause of his dribbling only to have to put himto sleepbecause it's too late. :tears2:

This morning when I woke up his whole bottom was pretty much soaked. Before it was just the base of his tail that would be wet. I had to give him a full on butt bath. Which stressed him out. And I'm sure stress right now can't be good for him.

Is there anything else I can do besides wait for his next visit to the vet on Saturday? 

Rue


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## Kipcha (Aug 10, 2011)

From what I have read, there isn't much you can do unless you can pinpoint what it is. I'm sorry I can't be more help but I can definitely sympathise with your situation right now...

Sending good vibes to you and Gus now. Just take a breath, monitor him, and hope for the best. Really, I'm sure everything will be just fine.


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## Pipp (Aug 10, 2011)

The Baytril is good to keep any underlying infections at bay. Even with crystals or stones, there's a chance of infection. Its too bad the vet is away, gives you more time to worry. I don't know that he has to be there to take a blood sample and maybe an x-ray, isn't there staff who can do that? Then they'll have the results for him to read when he gets back. 

They can also give him sub q fluids to see if there's an improvement.


sas


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 10, 2011)

Thanks, guys.

Sas, I will call and ask themabout itin the morning.

This is probably one of those hoofbeats and zebras things, but I was doing some reading tonight on causes of kidney failure in rabbits and stumbled across a page talking about mycotoxins. I don't know much abouthow mycotoxin poisoning presents itself, but I knowmould in rabbit pellets can be the cause. And I just noticedyesterday when I opened Gus's pellet bin thathis Kaytee pelletshad a funny, musty smell to them. I stopped feeding them to him right away, but after reading that page, it's got me really worried. 

Thanks for the help and assurances!

Rue


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## Pipp (Aug 10, 2011)

I thought about mycotoxins, but it could still be an undetected infection and that Baytril just isn't the right drug for that bacteria. I've read that you can't rule out an infection even with a negative culture on a urine sample, although its not clear what tests were run. 

I've seen reports of rabbits with EC whose only symptom is dribbling. 

Keep us updated. 


sas ray:


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 10, 2011)

Thanks, Pipp.

The thingwith mycotoxins is don't you thinkhe'd show other signs of digestive upset? Also, I went back through some of my old posts and noticed he was starting to have issues with peeing back in March. I found the receipt for his pellets and I bought them in June. So I think it's most likely a zebra thing. I will mention it to the vet, however.

I've read that about bacteria in urine, too. Especially if he's drinking so much it's overly diluting his urine. I'm going to try to get this next sample right before we head into the vet, so any bacteria (if there is any) won't have a chance to die off before he can see them. I'll ask if I can get copies of the lab reports too.

And I'm definitely going to ask about the bloodwork and x-rays.

It's so weird, though, because other than the dribbling, Gus seems perfectly healthy. Right now, he's in his pen on the back patio giving himself a thorough bath. He just doesn't seem like a sick bunny. 

Rue


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## Pipp (Aug 10, 2011)

Maybe he just has a week muscle (forget what it's called) which just take a weekly pill to make better. 

The blood test should tell them a lot re: kidney function. Hopefully they'll get it done and get the results soon. 

Waiting sucks! 


sas :clover:


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 13, 2011)

So today Gus had an x-ray, but there was no sign of kidney or bladder stones. There was something on his spine (I can't remember what the vet called it), but he said it wasn't abnormal. Anyway, we discussed the different possible causes for kidneys failing (he mentioned his urine is .1010 which definitely indicates kidney failure) and the vet thinks the mostlikely cause isGus coming in contact with some toxin (like anti-freeze--though I'm pretty sure Gus hasn't been around any anti-freeze! :shock. Now, I'm wracking my brain trying to think of what toxins he could have come in contact with! Could he have snacked on something poisonous in the garden? Could it be the pine pellets in his litter box? And what about that funky smelling food?

The vetalso did another urinanalysis, but it came back normal again. He even tried looking at the urine under a ultra-violet light to see if any blood would show up!

Anyway, the vet suggestedthe next step would begetting blood work done, but then we got talking about EC and we decided to try Panacur for a month firstand see if that helps. He said every case of EC he's seen has presented itself with paralysis or head tilt, but that doesn't mean that Gus couldn't have it. So Gus is on 15 mL of Panacur every day. The thing that concerns me, though, is he wants me to mix one packet of the Panacur into 100mL of yoghurt, then syringe 15 mL to Gus. But Gus hasn't had any dairy since we've had him, so I'm concerned about him having a bad reaction to so much yoghurt!

Also, I should've asked the vet this, but forgot: is there any problem with treating Gus with Panacur if he's been treated with Revolution too? It's been about 2 months since his last dose of Revolution.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks so much!

Rue


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## Pipp (Aug 13, 2011)

This vet is supposed to be one of the better ones out there but I don't know. I would have done the blood test before the x-ray if he expected kidney involvement, hadn't found blood in the urine, Gus wasn't straining to pee and he wasn't feeling any stones. The blood test would gauge kidney function.

If the kidney function was normal, an x-ray would address spinal involvement, stones, tumours or whatever.

Are you sure he's 'leaking' and not squatting in the urine? I'm wondering if the spinal thing is more involved that the vet realizes. 

A Panacur and antibiotics combo is usually the first line of treatment, not sure why he waited on the Panacur. 

How old is Gus again? And are you sure of his age? All kinds of genetics can enter into it as well as toxins and parasites. 

Has he been around raccoon toilet areas?

Yogurt is supposed to be a big no-no for rabbits, but actually it's just old school, they prescribed it for years and they weren't killing rabbits with it. Some rabbits may be lactose intolerant and the sugars can be a problem for rabbits with certain gut issues, and there are better probiotics out there these days, but it isn't horrible. It does normally tell you how up to date on bunny health the vet is though. Can't tell whether in this case it means he's not up on it or he's really up on it, LOL! 

I really wish he would have done the blood panel first, though. I didn't think a urine test could give you much kidney function info, but maybe it can. 

Hopefully somebody more up on it (or thinking more clearly) can contribute to this.


sas :clover:


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## Pipp (Aug 13, 2011)

Oh wait, he's talking powder packet of Panacur? It's way easier to give in the liquid form, it actually tastes pretty good. I think we have a big bottle of it kicking around here, tho I have to figure out where it is. Let me know if you're coming into town. (This also makes me wonder how many rabbits he's treating, hmmm...) 


sas


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 13, 2011)

Aaaarrrggghhh!!! I just wrote a super long reply and my computer just ate it!!! :grumpy:

Trying again:

I think the vet is pretty convinced his kidney failure is due to toxins. I'm not sure why he went with the x-ray before the blood work, but he did say that's the next step. But then we got talking about EC and he changed his mind and said maybe we should rule that out first.But he didn't seem convinced EC was the problem since he's only ever seen EC in conjunction with head tilt or paralysis.

I'm definitely sure that Gus has been leaking urine. The reason I called the vet was because he left a trail of pee on the floor behind him one day and when I picked him up and looked underneath him his tail was wet and I could actually see a small drop of pee coming out of him. Plus, since then, I've noticedhe's left puddles whereever he's been laying/sleeping. I've been cleaning his bum with cornstarch, though he HATES having his tail touched. 

I have no idea how old Gus is. I was told he was two, yet his old owner made some contradictory statements which made me wonder if he was actually under a year. But then he's never shown any of the naughty teenaged bun behaviour, which makes me wonder if he's much older. It's reallyimpossible to tell with rescue buns! 

As far as I know, there's no racoon feces in our backyard. Not that I know what racoon feces looks like! :shock:

Gus has had 3 in-office urine tests (the type with the dip stick), but also 1 lab test. Today the vet did say Gus's urine was still diluted, so I think the dip stick does show that info?

I never asked him how many rabbits he's currently got as patients. I do know he treated rabbits (and other small furries) for one of the rescues here in the Lower Mainland. And he was at an exotics conference recently, but not sure how much focus there was on rabbits at that.

Okay, going to post this now before my computer eats it again!

Thanks so much, Sas!

Rue


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 13, 2011)

Incidentally, all day today, Gus has been bone dry. Not a drop of urine on histail or the floor. What's up with that?

Also, I'm sure the yoghurt wouldn't kill him, just wasn't sure if it would wreak havoc on his digestive system since he's not had dairy any time recently. Would mixing it with 100 mL of fruit juice work instead? I don't know the next time I'll be going downtown. Though, if the powdered stuff simply won't work, I'll make the trip for liquid! 

Thanks again!

Rue


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 14, 2011)

Spondylosis. That's what the thing on Gus's spine was. I'm not sure exactly where it was on his back, but itwas closer to his shoulders than his tail.

Rue


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 15, 2011)

So I haven't started Gus on the Panacure yet (not sure how to dose it without the yoghurt. I'm guessing mixing it into juice would be okay, but was hoping someone more familiar with dosing medication could chime in). 

But anyway, as I mentioned upthread, all day yesterday he was dry. And today, the same thing. No pee on his tail, no dribbles on the floor, no puddle on his bed in the morning. I noticed his water consumption has gone way down. One bowl of water lasted him 24 hours and I even poured out the last 1/2 inch in the bottom and refilled it! I don't know how long it's been since I've had to do that! Usuallyhe completely empties his bowl twice a day!

Plus he's been acting much friskier. He escaped from his pen in the backyard (yes, three weeks before we move, he decides to learn to jump out of his pen! ) and went adventuring to the neighbours house! He's been flopping and laying stretched out (instead of muffined) and just generally hopping around a lot more than he's been doing in several weeks. I just didn't notice how unactive he'd been until today!

Could he be getting better? Is that possible withkidneys? I thought once they were damaged, they were damaged?

Thanks!

Rue


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## Pipp (Aug 15, 2011)

They may not have been damaged.  If he had the tail end (heh!) of a crystals problem or even a virus, I would think it can correct itself without damage. 

I think I'll be asking a couple of vets about this one. 

Cross your fingers, paws, ears, tails and toes! 


sas :clover:


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks, Sas.

I think I may have spoke too soon. Gus had a wet tail again this morning. He's still not drinking as much water and there weren't any new dribbles on the floor, so that's good. But it was really discouraging to see the wet spot at the base of his tail again. 

Rue


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 19, 2011)

So since my last post, Gus seems to have recovered completely from his dribbling. He had a wet tail for a day or two, but I haven't noticed any new dribbles on the floor since. His drinking hasreturned toa normal amountand he'speeing a normal amount and generally acting like his regular normal self! Maybe a little more spunky than usual as I saw him binkying in the backyard--something I haven't seen him do since this whole dribbling thing started.

I have no idea if it's the Panacur working or not. I didn't starthim on the Panacuruntil Tuesday and by then he was already back to drinking and peeing a normal amount. But I thought it best to put him on it just in case. I mixed it with 100 mL of fruit juice and then syringed his dose to him (15 mL). He took it just fine the first two days, then started refusing it. So I mashed up a strawberry, squirted his medicine onto it and then syringed up the mush. He took his medicine no problem then! 

At this point, I'm wondering if I should call up the vet and get another urinanalysis done to see if his urine is no longer diluted, or wait until he's finished with his Panacur.

Thanks so much for the help so far!

Rue


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## funnybunnymummy (Oct 6, 2011)

So I have an update on Gus's condition.About a week into taking the Panacur his dribbling started up again and never improved again.  So we took him back into the vet today to get the bloodwork done. It came back that Gus definitely has kidney failure and there's nothing we can do to correct it. Just try to keep him as dry and comfortable as we can until his kidneys eventually give out. :tears2:

I've been consoling a ten-year-old for the last two hours and feeling rather down in the dumps myself. 

The vet did give us a prescription for Lotensin transdermal gel. It's supposed to boost kidney function in the hopes of prolonging his life. I haven't given it to him yet, but wanted to be sure that it was safe for rabbits.

Thanks,

Rue


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## tonyshuman (Oct 6, 2011)

I am so sorry. You may want to get in touch with myheart as her Luna had kidney failure due to poor diet as a younger bunny. She gave Luna sub-q fluids frequently and I think some other drugs (Lasixis one) to help. Is he having any pain? I would think the spondylosis could be painful. Luna's story is very hard to read (especially for me with my Dutch-love and having thought about doing a bunny date between my Tony and Luna when she was fostered by Naturestee), but a PM to myheart might give you some ideas on how bad the kidney disease is, what you can do to help, how much it really helps (i.e. what treatments actually provide better quality of life), and how to know when it's too bad.

Thinking of you and Gus and the rest of your family. I have lived with a terminally ill bunny where we had no idea when he was going to be too sick; and we spoiled his little butt off. Luckily he wasn't naughty ever, just wanted lots of treats. It's not easy but I think it helped that we knew it was coming to some extent. It allowed us to keep in mind that the memories we were making were precious and to really enjoy the good stuff.


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## funnybunnymummy (Oct 6, 2011)

Thanks, Claire.

What's really killing me is that, since we've moved, Gus has become a much more affectionate bunny, yet he has to spend more time in his cage, because he leaves a trail behind him wherever he hops. I try to let him out as much as possible, but I can only chase after him with a towel for so long before I need to just put him back. His cage is in the basement, too, so when he's in there, we don't even see him. It breaks my heart!

I did set a NIC pen up for him in the dining room this week, but I have to make it taller because he can hop out of it! Just waiting for them to restock the panels at Canadian Tire! 

I don't know if the spondylosis causes him any pain. Aside from the times when he gets a bit of gas, he never seems uncomfortable or like he's in pain. The vet didn't seem to think he needed any pain medication. I can ask about that when he does a follow up call in a week.

I don't know how much more we can spoil the already spoiled bunny, but we will sure try! 

I'll look up Luna's story and PM myheart.

Thanks,

Rue


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## jujub793 (Oct 7, 2011)

:feelbetter: I'm sorry to hear about Gus, I can't imagine how you feel knowing you cant make him all better. He's come such a long way. I know he knows his family loves him.


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## Kipcha (Oct 7, 2011)

Oh gosh, I am so sorry to hear this. I was hoping you would have better luck with Gus then we had with Ty. Ty is still going strong and both our boys started showing signs around the same time (I believe?) so hopefully both our guys will continue their spirited behaviour right to the end.

You and Gus and your family will be in my thoughts


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## Lucy500 (Oct 7, 2011)

Im so sorry to read this  Lots of hugs to you, your family and Gus


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## funnybunnymummy (Oct 7, 2011)

Thanks, guys. It's been tough to adjust to the idea that we'll have to eventually put him down. I'd always pictured him as this crotchety old bunny finally dying in his sleep. Kinda sucks that we're going to have to make that call.

Right nowGus is just so happy and seems completely unaware that he's sick. So that makes up for it a bit.

I got some new pics of him the last couple days. I'll post them in his blog.

Rue


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## jcottonl02 (Oct 7, 2011)

I'm so sorry Rue. Hugs to you and Gus xxxxxx

Jen


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## Anaira (Oct 7, 2011)

Oh no, I'm so sorry to hear this Rue.  I'm a big Gus fan. Give him some snuggles from me!


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## funnybunnymummy (Oct 7, 2011)

Thanks, Jen and Anaira. Gus has been getting lots of snorgles lately. He disapproves. 

Rue


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## Pipp (Oct 8, 2011)

I'm so sorry, Rue.  Tough news, I've been following all things Gus since day one. But maybe he'll hang in there and surprise us all. 


sas :clover:


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## funnybunnymummy (Oct 8, 2011)

I hope so! He certainly doesn't act like a sick bunny, does he? I really hope this medication is going to work. I'd just be happy if he managed to stay dry for the most part so he can continue to have free run of the house. It sucks having to keep him in his pen/cage so much. 

Rue


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## Nancy McClelland (Oct 9, 2011)

ray:


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## Sweetie (Oct 9, 2011)

I hope that Gus gets better soon. I will pray for him and your family.


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