# Baby rabbits



## paul2641

OMG people I am so lucky I checked on my my rabbits before I went to bed. Suki gave and still is giving birth to kits. They all seem to be healthy what should I do? there all wiggling.


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## irishbunny

This will probably be moved to the rabbitry but anyway. Is she in the cage with Roger is my first question?


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## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> This will probably be moved to the rabbitry but anyway. Is she in the cage with Roger is my first question?


I noticed she was on edge and before she went into labour I took roger out. roger is in sukuras cage. and sukura is in a box. I'm getting another hutch tomarrow.


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## irishbunny

Ok, well right now you just have to leave her alone, if your still up, check on her in about an hour, see if she and the babies are ok. Then in the morning you can see if they are all alive and take out any dead kits. Did she make a nest?


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## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> Ok, well right now you just have to leave her alone, if your still up, check on her in about an hour, see if she and the babies are ok. Then in the morning you can see if they are all alive and take out any dead kits. Did she make a nest?


She hasn't made a nest and all the babies are all over the place, she isn't at them she is just eating. Should I do something. I touched them all to see there temp there all kinda cold. But I have a gas fire on and the heating. What should I do??


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## irishbunny

Are they all alive? Do you think she is finished giving birth. I suppose you have hay right? Get a bundle of hay and put it in the corner, with your fist, sort of flatten the hay down in the middle, sort of like a birds nest and put them in and cover them over a little bit and check them in the morning, don't disturb her or them too much. In the morning see if they are alright and after 24 hours if they don't have nice, round bellies, just think wrinkly ones then she probably isn't feeding them, but we can deal with that again if it happens.


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## Maureen Las

I'm moving this ..where you can get the right assistance inthe rabbitry


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## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> Are they all alive? Do you think she is finished giving birth. I suppose you have hay right? Get a bundle of hay and put it in the corner, with your fist, sort of flatten the hay down in the middle, sort of like a birds nest and put them in and cover them over a little bit and check them in the morning, don't disturb her or them too much. In the morning see if they are alright and after 24 hours if they don't have nice, round bellies, just think wrinkly ones then she probably isn't feeding them, but we can deal with that again if it happens.


There all separated but they all have bedding over them. Should I still move them?


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## irishbunny

Ya, move them all together in a corner and make a proper nest, if you can rub your hands on your doe so her scent stays on them when you handle them, this happens to alot of first time mothers, it just happened a few weeks ago at my friends


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## Maureen Las

move them together and they can keep each other warm (like irish bunny said)


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## paul2641

There all together she is now making a nest. I'm going to go to bed and get back up at 7 to check on them. Hopefully they will survive and all have ping-pong bellies.


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## irishbunny

Good idea, I was heading to bed then I saw this lol, don't get worried if by seven they don't have ping-pong bellies, it might take a while for her to feed them. Nighty night!


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## Starlight Rabbitry

Pull some of her fur off and use that too make a nest. Pulling the fur on the rump or belly will not hurt the doe because it will come off easy...that is where she should have plucked it from. Make sure they have big round bellies....look like they have been fed. If they don't, you need to force her to feed them.

Remember that mother rabbits do not stay with the babies. They only go in the nest to feed them. 

Also, don't worry too much about getting her scent on your hands first. You don't have any other litters so it isn't a big deal. If she trusts you, then she will trust you with her babies. Give her a treat when you go in to check on them.

Sharon


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## paul2641

One of them is making a squeaking noise what does that mean? There is 6 of them.


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## Starlight Rabbitry

Could be hurt but most likely is just hungry....does it have a big belly?


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## paul2641

Her nest is like a dome. And she has her side facing it could it mean she is feeding them?


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## irishbunny

She's hardly be feeding them yet.


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## paul2641

*Starlight Rabbitry wrote: *


> Could be hurt but most likely is just hungry....does it have a big belly?


There only about an hour and a half old. So I don't know. I moved them into the nest so I might of hurt one of them:?. I am really excited and really nurvous. She is just laying beside it, is this a good sign.


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## Starlight Rabbitry

So far so good... Just keep an eye on them. Is the little one still squeeking?


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## irishbunny

It can take a while for her to feed them, and since they are hardly even an hour old, I wouldn't be worried about her feeding them yet. She is a first time mother and could be a little nervous, so that is why I recommend you get your scent on your hands, plus you said you don't have a very good bond with her,


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## paul2641

*Starlight Rabbitry wrote: *


> So far so good... Just keep an eye on them. Is the little one still squeeking?


Stopped squeaking. Is that good?


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## Starlight Rabbitry

Yes... probably just thought that you were mom.


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## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> It can take a while for her to feed them, and since they are hardly even an hour old, I wouldn't be worried about her feeding them yet. She is a first time mother and could be a little nervous, so that is why I recommend you get your scent on your hands, plus you said you don't have a very good bond with her,


Sorry for all the same posts, It was just that the site is very slow for me. I rubbed her so her scent would be on me. And she seemed very friendly to me so far she was sniffing me. I think roger could be hurt because I took him out and then put him back in and suki attacked him. But roger was never in there when she was having kits. Or with the kits.


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## irishbunny

Ya it's fine, just leave them alone now and keep the place quiet and check on them in the morning, I really need to go to bed!


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## paul2641

*Starlight Rabbitry wrote: *


> Yes... probably just thought that you were mom.


The one rabbit is squeaking again. Hope it will be ok.


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## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> Ya it's fine, just leave them alone now and keep the place quiet and check on them in the morning, I really need to go to bed!


I Haven't gone near them since suki has taken good control of things. Thanks irishbunny so much for the help. Your a star.


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## irishbunny

Ok, just make sure you don't put Roger with them because it could seriously stress the mother out.


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## irishbunny

*paul2641 wrote: *


> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> Ya it's fine, just leave them alone now and keep the place quiet and check on them in the morning, I really need to go to bed!
> 
> 
> 
> I Haven't gone near them since suki has taken good control of things. Thanks irishbunny so much for the help. Your a star.
Click to expand...

Don't worry about it, I'll talk to you tomorrow, I'm going to click out of this now because I can't stop posting!


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## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> Ok, just make sure you don't put Roger with them because it could seriously stress the mother out.


Roger won't see suki for the next 5 months!! Should I let suki out to have a run?


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## paul2641

Suki hasn't feed them yet but her tits(sp) are really big. How do I force feed off her safely?


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## paul2641

she is taking NO interest in the kits and is eatting the hay used to make the nest what do I do?


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## aurora369

I would give her at least 12 hours to feed the babies on her own. She will probably do it when you've gone to bed and no one is around. 

When she feeds she will get in the nest and stand over them. The babies will feed from underneath her.

If you do need to teach her how to feed the babies, then you will need to place her on top of the babies in the nest. Move aside the hay/fur that's covering the babies and put mom right on top. Give her some treats/pets while the babies feed. Let the babies feed for at least 5 minutes.

You should get mom to feed twice a day until she starts feeding on her own.

Most mothers will start feeding their babies within 12-24 hours of birth.

The babies will squeak and jump around when you put your hand in the nest. They think you are mom and they are jumping up to try to find a nipple. That is a good sign when they are lively and noisy. If they become lethargic and don't move when you touch the nest, then they are not getting enough to eat.

If you can, take some pictures of the babies and post them. We can tell you if the babies look well fed or not. As long as they have nice round tummies and they don't look shrunken and super wrinkled, then they are fine.

What I would do if she was my bunny, would be to leave her alone over night, and check all the babies in the morning.

I would advise you to get a nest box of some sort. In a pinch, a shoe box will work. Pack the box with hay and make a fist sized hole in the middle. Transfer the nest material to the box and place the box where the nest was in her cage. She'll find her babies when she wants to feed. 

The box will help keep the babies together so they stay warm. When they stary wiggling around, it will prevent them from escaping the nest.

--Dawn


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## paul2641

*aurora369 wrote: *


> I would give her at least 12 hours to feed the babies on her own. She will probably do it when you've gone to bed and no one is around.
> 
> When she feeds she will get in the nest and stand over them. The babies will feed from underneath her.
> 
> If you do need to teach her how to feed the babies, then you will need to place her on top of the babies in the nest. Move aside the hay/fur that's covering the babies and put mom right on top. Give her some treats/pets while the babies feed. Let the babies feed for at least 5 minutes.
> 
> You should get mom to feed twice a day until she starts feeding on her own.
> 
> Most mothers will start feeding their babies within 12-24 hours of birth.
> 
> The babies will squeak and jump around when you put your hand in the nest. They think you are mom and they are jumping up to try to find a nipple. That is a good sign when they are lively and noisy. If they become lethargic and don't move when you touch the nest, then they are not getting enough to eat.
> 
> If you can, take some pictures of the babies and post them. We can tell you if the babies look well fed or not. As long as they have nice round tummies and they don't look shrunken and super wrinkled, then they are fine.
> 
> What I would do if she was my bunny, would be to leave her alone over night, and check all the babies in the morning.
> 
> I would advise you to get a nest box of some sort. In a pinch, a shoe box will work. Pack the box with hay and make a fist sized hole in the middle. Transfer the nest material to the box and place the box where the nest was in her cage. She'll find her babies when she wants to feed.
> 
> The box will help keep the babies together so they stay warm. When they stary wiggling around, it will prevent them from escaping the nest.
> 
> --Dawn


We have them in A room that is very noisey, Should I move them to a quiter room? I tryed to move her over her kits but any time I went near her she attacked me, what do I do now? The nest she has built is really warm.


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## aurora369

One more thing to keep in mind, is that rabbits are a prey animal. They ignore their babies to protect them. The babies have little to no smell so the predators can't find them very well. If mom where to hang around, then the predators would be able to find the nest very easily. 

Mom will completely ignore the nest and babies except when she goes to feed them. When the babies open their eyes and start exploring the cage, mom will pay more attention to them. But until then, it is very normal for her to act uninterested in the babies.

--Dawn


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## paul2641

*aurora369 wrote: *


> One more thing to keep in mind, is that rabbits are a prey animal. They ignore their babies to protect them. The babies have little to no smell so the predators can't find them very well. If mom where to hang around, then the predators would be able to find the nest very easily.
> 
> Mom will completely ignore the nest and babies except when she goes to feed them. When the babies open their eyes and start exploring the cage, mom will pay more attention to them. But until then, it is very normal for her to act uninterested in the babies.
> 
> --Dawn


There only about 6 hours old. What age should I begin to worry if she hasn't fed them? There is one that seems to be pretty strong but hasn't been fed.


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## aurora369

I would leave her be for about 12 hours, then check the babies again to see if they have been fed. If you have a quiter room that you can move the cage to, that might be good. 

As long as the babies are nice and warm in their nest, you can just leave them be. She should feed them when she's ready and feels safe. She will probably only feed the babies when no one is around.

The babies should be fine up to about 24 hours after birth. Best thing you can do is leave mom in peace and check on her after she's had a to herself to feed the babies.

Tomorrow, take some pictures of them and post them if you can. I can look at them and tell you if she's feeding them.

--Dawn


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## paul2641

*aurora369 wrote: *


> I would leave her be for about 12 hours, then check the babies again to see if they have been fed. If you have a quiter room that you can move the cage to, that might be good.
> 
> As long as the babies are nice and warm in their nest, you can just leave them be. She should feed them when she's ready and feels safe. She will probably only feed the babies when no one is around.
> 
> The babies should be fine up to about 24 hours after birth. Best thing you can do is leave mom in peace and check on her after she's had a to herself to feed the babies.
> 
> Tomorrow, take some pictures of them and post them if you can. I can look at them and tell you if she's feeding them.
> 
> --Dawn


Ok I'll move the cage from the kitchen to my room. I hope my sister will let me use her camera( She's going to hate the babies). What will I do if she doesn't feed. I always think the worst so I'm prepared?


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## paul2641

The cage is quite messy should I clean around them, or just clean the whole thing?


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## aurora369

Worst case, if she doesn't feed them after being in a nice quite space for a while, is you will have to have to force her to feed the babies.

You will need to get her on top of the babies, and get her to stay there for 5 minutes for the babies to feed.

If she will not let you place on the babies, you can try holding her and putting the babies to her nipples one by one. You will need someone to help you. One person hold the mom with her tummy exposed, normally on her back (tranced if possible), and one person to put the babies on her nipples. This method is more dangerous, because if mom struggles or kicks, the baby could go flying and it could get hurt or killed.

You mentioned that her teats are filling with milk, so she will want to empty them soon. I bet she will feed them on her own to releive the pressure in her teats.

Chances are that mom will start feeding the babies soon. You just probably won't see it happen.

Clean up any blood or placenta pieces. Other than that, I would leave her be until she starts feeding. As long as the babies are clean, and mom hasn't peed on them or anything. You should also make sure there are no dead babies or pieces of placenta in with the live babies. But if you've already made a clean nest, then the babies should be nice and clean already.

--Dawn


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## paul2641

*aurora369 wrote: *


> Worst case, if she doesn't feed them after being in a nice quite space for a while, is you will have to have to force her to feed the babies.
> 
> You will need to get her on top of the babies, and get her to stay there for 5 minutes for the babies to feed.
> 
> If she will not let you place on the babies, you can try holding her and putting the babies to her nipples one by one. You will need someone to help you. One person hold the mom with her tummy exposed, normally on her back (tranced if possible), and one person to put the babies on her nipples. This method is more dangerous, because if mom struggles or kicks, the baby could go flying and it could get hurt or killed.
> 
> You mentioned that her teats are filling with milk, so she will want to empty them soon. I bet she will feed them on her own to releive the pressure in her teats.
> 
> Chances are that mom will start feeding the babies soon. You just probably won't see it happen.
> 
> Clean up any blood or placenta pieces. Other than that, I would leave her be until she starts feeding. As long as the babies are clean, and mom hasn't peed on them or anything. You should also make sure there are no dead babies or pieces of placenta in with the live babies. But if you've already made a clean nest, then the babies should be nice and clean already.
> 
> --Dawn


That's good to know, should I leave her to feed them herself till 9am tomarrow and if she doesn't feed them by then force her to feed them? they would be a day and a quauter old.


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## paul2641

She's after eating 2 of them. The first one is missing half of its body, and the second one she bit off its leg. I'm so P!SSED OFF I could have saved the second one she had done nothing to it when I noticed the first one. I'm really sad. the other ones are alive but cold what do I do?


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## Sabine

Only saw the thread now. Hope the babies are doing ok. I don't think forcefeeding is an issue yet but keep her calm and don't stress her out and hopefully she will follow her instincts. I would expect by tonight they should have ping pong bellies. And make sure you do get that new hutch for Roger today


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## paul2641

Were leaving in the next ten minutes to get another hutch. The vet told us to take the babies out and to supplement them with kitten milk. Is that good advice? I'm going to feed them this also going to continue to force suki to feed them. I'm full of bite marks.


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## Sabine

I am not sure if that is good advice since there have not even 24 hours passed since she had them. You are better off giving her a chance. Once you start them on the kitten milk there'll be even less incentive for Suki to feed. Hold off with that at least till tonight till some more people have given their opinion. I remember reading from other threads that it is perfectly normal for the mom not to feed them straight away. Don't stress her out by trying to force her at this stage. She is still recovering


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## Starlight Rabbitry

I would NOT give her a chance to feed them....she tried to eat her babies for a reason. If you give them back to her, she will continue to eat them. Best chance for them to survive is for you to learn how to have Suki force feed them.

There are a couple ways. First, like aurora said, you can hold her onto the nest and let the babies feed. Don't let her go after them.

Second, you can hold her upside down (need 2 people) and place a baby on her stomach and help the baby find the nipple. Take special care that Suki doesn't kick the baby while struggling. This is why you need 2 people. 

Kitten milk is fine but at this age, it isn't recommended as they can aspirate it into their lungs and die very quickly.

Either way, you are also going to have to stimulate them to pee. Do this after they are done eating by putting a warm cotton ball on the lower part of their stomach. Hold it there till they pee.

Sorry she turned on them...it happens. Don't blame her, she is a first time mother and didn't know what to do.

Sharon


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## irishbunny

Paul, does usually eat their babies if they are stressed out, being in that noisy room is probably stressing her out and it is possible that is why she has started to cannabalize the babies, I would have taken them off her as soon as she started eating them because she will probably start eating the rest, I just hope you find live babies when you get home


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## Sabine

*Starlight Rabbitry wrote: *


> I would NOT give her a chance to feed them....she tried to eat her babies for a reason. If you give them back to her, she will continue to eat them. Best chance for them to survive is for you to learn how to have Suki force feed them.
> 
> There are a couple ways. First, like aurora said, you can hold her onto the nest and let the babies feed. Don't let her go after them.
> 
> Second, you can hold her upside down (need 2 people) and place a baby on her stomach and help the baby find the nipple. Take special care that Suki doesn't kick the baby while struggling. This is why you need 2 people.
> 
> Kitten milk is fine but at this age, it isn't recommended as they can aspirate it into their lungs and die very quickly.
> 
> Either way, you are also going to have to stimulate them to pee. Do this after they are done eating by putting a warm cotton ball on the lower part of their stomach. Hold it there till they pee.
> 
> Sorry she turned on them...it happens. Don't blame her, she is a first time mother and didn't know what to do.
> 
> Sharon


Sorry i take back what i said earlier. I somehow missed the post aboutSuki trying to eat the babies. That changes things of course and I don't really feel competent to give advice


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## polly

she sounds far to stressed between having a buck in while she was pregnant then having them then not getting peace then you moving her to a different room. I agree with Starlight good chance you are going to have to keep them away from her and just take them to her for a feed. good luck its not an easy task especially with a first time mum


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## irishbunny

Ya I agree with Polly, I think the best thing to do if the babies are still alive is to take them and keep them in your room, where your dog won't be and where it is somewhat quiet, and take them to the mother to be fed twice a day, if she will let them be fed. Put her over the babies and hold her tightly and hopefully she will allow the babies to feed.


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## Cocoa_Bella

Hope all is well. Please keep us updated on the status of your kits and Suki!


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## paul2641

Suki is all good. I bottle fed all four 2 died during the feed, they were the ones my cousin fed. We still have 2 and I have been adviced not to even atempt to try the mother with them again. She is a visous cow.


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## irishbunny

Paul, it's not her fault, it's just her instincts and if you are going to breed rabbits you can't get mad at the does. If it was me I'd still try and feed them off their mother, if your there she can't hurt them. There is a very high chance these babies won't make it if you hand rear them. I my opinion you should try everything before you give up and you haven't, poor Suki, it's not her fault she was kept with the buck and ina noisy room, itstressed her out.


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## TinysMom

*irishbunny wrote: *


> Ya I agree with Polly, I think the best thing to do if the babies are still alive is to take them and keep them in your room, where your dog won't be and where it is somewhat quiet, and take them to the mother to be fed twice a day, if she will let them be fed. Put her over the babies and hold her tightly and hopefully she will allow the babies to feed.


This is the best advice yet. When you're there while they feed - you can keep the mama from hurting them. In addition - it teaches the rabbit how to be a mother. I've had vicious mothers turn into excellent ones by doing this.

I get the feeling you're angry at your rabbit right now - but please don't be. Here are a few things to consider..


A large percentage of the losses breeders have are from first-time mothers who don't know what to do. They don't understand about making a nest (I'm sorry - I haven't read to see if she had a nestbox or hay or anything)...they don't understand about all they need to do. Most lionhead breeders here in the states that I've talked to - will give a doe up to 3 attempts to have a litter successfully before they'll remove her from their herd. 
From the little bit I skimmed - she went through a LOT of changes in a short time. She was housed with a buck - removed - etc. etc. Does are very dependent upon having their cage as being theirs...its how they know what to protect and defend when they have babies. She's probably all confused because her surroundings have changed. Its not her fault she doesn't understand.
Does have an instinct to kill their babies if they think predators will get to them. She doesn't understand that they aren't in danger. 
Finally - no matter how often we may say things like, "She's thinking this" or "She's acting like that.." the fact is - rabbits act on instinct. We "personalize" them and try to give them what we think they think or what we think they should do. But they don't logic things out and reason through them like we can - they aren't capable of that.
Honestly - I feel so bad for your poor doe. She's been through so much - having her living situation changed - having babies born and she didn't know what to do with them - etc. etc. She really needs our sympathy and support because she is so confused right now.

I'm sorry for your losses - I hope the other two survive. BUT - the best thing for them is for you to take them to her and have her feed them. I've shared several times on this forum what I do - I would search for a post but I'm too busy right now. Basically, I put them in a basket (on a towel) with treats at one end of the basket (near her head). Then I put mama in the basket so she'll eat the treats (it can be hay/oatmeal/greens - whatever is a treat to her) and I calmly pet her and whisper to her while she eats. I have my hand over her back so she has to stay over the babies and I hope that her milk lets down.

I've found that after 2-3 days of doing this a couple of times per day - mama starts to understand what she's supposed to do.


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## paul2641

*TinysMom wrote: *


> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> Ya I agree with Polly, I think the best thing to do if the babies are still alive is to take them and keep them in your room, where your dog won't be and where it is somewhat quiet, and take them to the mother to be fed twice a day, if she will let them be fed. Put her over the babies and hold her tightly and hopefully she will allow the babies to feed.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the best advice yet. When you're there while they feed - you can keep the mama from hurting them. In addition - it teaches the rabbit how to be a mother. I've had vicious mothers turn into excellent ones by doing this.
> 
> I get the feeling you're angry at your rabbit right now - but please don't be. Here are a few things to consider..
> 
> 
> A large percentage of the losses breeders have are from first-time mothers who don't know what to do. They don't understand about making a nest (I'm sorry - I haven't read to see if she had a nestbox or hay or anything)...they don't understand about all they need to do. Most lionhead breeders here in the states that I've talked to - will give a doe up to 3 attempts to have a litter successfully before they'll remove her from their herd.
> 
> From the little bit I skimmed - she went through a LOT of changes in a short time. She was housed with a buck - removed - etc. etc. Does are very dependent upon having their cage as being theirs...its how they know what to protect and defend when they have babies. She's probably all confused because her surroundings have changed. Its not her fault she doesn't understand.
> Does have an instinct to kill their babies if they think predators will get to them. She doesn't understand that they aren't in danger.
> 
> Finally - no matter how often we may say things like, "She's thinking this" or "She's acting like that.." the fact is - rabbits act on instinct. We "personalize" them and try to give them what we think they think or what we think they should do. But they don't logic things out and reason through them like we can - they aren't capable of that.
> Honestly - I feel so bad for your poor doe. She's been through so much - having her living situation changed - having babies born and she didn't know what to do with them - etc. etc. She really needs our sympathy and support because she is so confused right now.
> 
> I'm sorry for your losses - I hope the other two survive. BUT - the best thing for them is for you to take them to her and have her feed them. I've shared several times on this forum what I do - I would search for a post but I'm too busy right now. Basically, I put them in a basket (on a towel) with treats at one end of the basket (near her head). Then I put mama in the basket so she'll eat the treats (it can be hay/oatmeal/greens - whatever is a treat to her) and I calmly pet her and whisper to her while she eats. I have my hand over her back so she has to stay over the babies and I hope that her milk lets down.
> 
> I've found that after 2-3 days of doing this a couple of times per day - mama starts to understand what she's supposed to do.
Click to expand...

Ok there second feed is at 6.10 that's 42 min away. So I'll bring momma rabbit up to try and get her to feed her babies. And I'll do this once a day till she does.While still bottle feeding them. This is the best I can do. I spent â¬60 today onsupplies and I still have to get the hutch tomarrow. The pet shop I went to only had hutches for â¬300I can't afford that. So what I'm doing is putting sukura into a box who is very calm. And stayed in the box all night last night. So I think it will work out. I'll defo be getting another hutch tomarrow.


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## TinysMom

*irishbunny wrote: *


> It can take a while for her to feed them, and since they are hardly even an hour old, I wouldn't be worried about her feeding them yet. She is a first time mother and could be a little nervous, so that is why I recommend you get your scent on your hands, plus you said you don't have a very good bond with her,


I just wanted to add something to this post. 

Many of my does - especially my experienced mamas - will nurse their babies immediately after birth. Not all of them do this - but some do.

I'm putting this in this thread as a reference in case anyone searches about nursing and pulls up this thread in the future.

A doe might nurse immediately (Miss Bea always did) or she might wait up to 12 hours or so......it depends upon the doe and their experience and when their milk comes in.


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## irishbunny

Paul you live in Limerick! You have some great chain store shops, the best being Maxi Zoo, it's where I got Princess's cage for 50 euro, why do they have to be hutches? Princess's cage is huge and for 100 euro you could have two of them, and you need two Paul, for those kits, whether they survive or not it's still needed for future kits. 

I wish Princess's milk wasn't dried up, I'd offer to take the babies for you until they are eight weeks old because right now I don't think they have much chance


----------



## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> Paul you live in Limerick! You have some great chain store shops, the best being Maxi Zoo, it's where I got Princess's cage for 50 euro, why do they have to be hutches? Princess's cage is huge and for 100 euro you could have two of them, and you need two Paul, for those kits, whether they survive or not it's still needed for future kits.
> 
> I wish Princess's milk wasn't dried up, I'd offer to take the babies for you until they are eight weeks old because right now I don't think they have much chance


We went to mazi zoo they were all in the â¬300 zone. And I want hutches because I'm putting them out once it warms up all year round from then on. I'm going to go to paws and claws my fav pet shop.


----------



## irishbunny

Ok, try PetMania aswell, there's two in Limerick. Since you have money now you might as well get a cage for the kits, since once their eyes open their going to start wanting to explore. Even if it's just a cheap cage for 40 or 50 it's better then nothing.


----------



## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> Ok, try PetMania aswell, there's two in Limerick. Since you have money now you might as well get a cage for the kits, since once their eyes open their going to start wanting to explore. Even if it's just a cheap cage for 40 or 50 it's better then nothing.


Was in both of them. The cheapest hutch they had was â¬103 and it was tiny. I'm going to get a good quality one from paws and claws for â¬40-â¬65.


----------



## irishbunny

Ok, try and get two Paul, it will seriously make it much easier for you and the babies and you'll use it again.


----------



## Sabine

Frankly at this critical stage I would get any cage/hutch at any price. i also agree that teaching the doe to feed is preferable to handrearing them.
P.S. Did you try to force her to feed them before she started cannibalizing them?


----------



## Becca

Okay well I don't have any adivce lol but I'm wondering was this a surprise litter or planned??


----------



## irishbunny

Well he had the mature male and female in the same cage so I suppose it was planned.


----------



## aurora369

You definitely need to get a second cage/hutch. 

I agree that mom was so stressed out from having the buck in the cage while giving birth, all the noise and moving around, that she felt threatened and attacked the babies through instinct. 

If you can get mom to feed the babies safely, with either of the two methods explained to you, I would only have mom feeding the babies. Feeding by hand is very dangerous, as you have experienced by losing two babies already. Mom's milk will give you the best probability of the babies surviving.

You need to keep mom in a nice quite place where she can de-stress. 

These types of experiences are very common when breeding. You need to be prepared to deal with them. They suck, but the only thing you can do is try to work through them so the babies have the best chance of survival.

--Dawn


----------



## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> Ok, try and get two Paul, it will seriously make it much easier for you and the babies and you'll use it again.


Bare with me I'll get one tomarrow and Then when the kits are older I'll get another. Does this make you happy? Also on your past post I also wish princess was still pruducing milk so she could care for them.


----------



## paul2641

*Sabine wrote: *


> Frankly at this critical stage I would get any cage/hutch at any price. i also agree that teaching the doe to feed is preferable to handrearing them.
> P.S. Did you try to force her to feed them before she started cannibalizing them?


I only went near them to put them in the nest and that was like 4hours before she ate any of them. And she seemed grand with me touching them. I tried them up against her nipple once and she wasn't having it she wouldn't sit still and she killed another baby. that brought us to 3 because when she was trying to get away she bit onto it I pulled her away and thought it would be ok but obv not. then I went again to try and she broke skin and I was bleeding( I had three pairs of gloves on think working gloves and she got through) She wants nothing to do with the babies. So I will have to hand hear them. I think I'm going to section suki off and if she doesn't improve on behaviour I'm going to sell her. She has always been a nasty B!TCH. Sukura will make a wonderful mother, she is so friendly.


----------



## paul2641

*Becca wrote: *


> Okay well I don't have any adivce lol but I'm wondering was this a surprise litter or planned??


Honestly it was a surprize, I know I did have a male in with her, but I didn't think he had bred with her. And in the nick of time I got in and saved the kits from roger. Little did I know the mother was a complete cow.


----------



## paul2641

*aurora369 wrote: *


> You definitely need to get a second cage/hutch.
> 
> I agree that mom was so stressed out from having the buck in the cage while giving birth, all the noise and moving around, that she felt threatened and attacked the babies through instinct.
> 
> If you can get mom to feed the babies safely, with either of the two methods explained to you, I would only have mom feeding the babies. Feeding by hand is very dangerous, as you have experienced by losing two babies already. Mom's milk will give you the best probability of the babies surviving.
> 
> You need to keep mom in a nice quite place where she can de-stress.
> 
> These types of experiences are very common when breeding. You need to be prepared to deal with them. They suck, but the only thing you can do is try to work through them so the babies have the best chance of survival.
> 
> --Dawn


Every one is very confused she wasn't moved once since I have gotten her. And that room was empty all day apart from when I was checking on the kits. She has had a very unstressful day today. I can assure that.


----------



## Becca

*paul2641 wrote: *


> *Becca wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> Okay well I don't have any adivce lol but I'm wondering was this a surprise litter or planned??
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly it was a surprize, I know I did have a male in with her, but I didn't think he had bred with her. And in the nick of time I got in and saved the kits from roger. Little did I know the mother was a complete cow.
Click to expand...


First of all calling your rabbit a B*tch is worse than calling a human one becuase rabbits can't help it and if thats what you think about rabbits then you shouldn';t have them :X Sorry and why did you keep a male in with a female??


----------



## irishbunny

> I think I'm going to section suki off and if she doesn't improve on behaviour I'm going to sell her. She has always been a nasty B!TCH. Sukura will make a wonderful mother, she is so friendly.


Paul, I can't believe you think that way, she has done nothing wrong! She is a first time mother and you left her in a noisy place and with the buck. You can't be sure Suki will be a good mother either, she could also act on instinct too. People have already told you this and your still angry at poor Suki, you had 300 euro and wouldn't
spend it on a hutch for her before this happened, you knew Suki could be expecting kits and didn't plan ahead. To be honest, what I'm seeing now is telling me rabbits are not the animal for you, you don't really seem to care about them, just trying to get them to have kits, you know there is no money to be made in this right? 

If you can't deal with it I will personally come and pick up Suki, I'll buy her from you because right now I feel very sorry for her.


----------



## Bunny_Love

*Becca wrote: *


> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *Becca wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> Okay well I don't have any adivce lol but I'm wondering was this a surprise litter or planned??
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly it was a surprize, I know I did have a male in with her, but I didn't think he had bred with her. And in the nick of time I got in and saved the kits from roger. Little did I know the mother was a complete cow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First of all calling your rabbit a B*tch is worse than calling a human one becuase rabbits can't help it and if thats what you think about rabbits then you shouldn';t have them :X Sorry and why did you keep a male in with a female??
Click to expand...

I agree, thats terrible of you to say that....

She just does not want to be bothered, id leave her alone , and let her do her own thing....

Maybe you should rehome her....with someone who has patience.

Rabbits are not for everyone.

Jessica


----------



## Sabine

How much are you selling Suki for?


----------



## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> I think I'm going to section suki off and if she doesn't improve on behaviour I'm going to sell her. She has always been a nasty B!TCH. Sukura will make a wonderful mother, she is so friendly.
> 
> 
> 
> Paul, I can't believe you think that way, she has done nothing wrong! She is a first time mother and you left her in a noisy place and with the buck. You can't be sure Suki will be a good mother either, she could also act on instinct too. People have already told you this and your still angry at poor Suki, you had 300 euro and wouldn't
> spend it on a hutch for her before this happened, you knew Suki could be expecting kits and didn't plan ahead. To be honest, what I'm seeing now is telling me rabbits are not the animal for you, you don't really seem to care about them, just trying to get them to have kits, you know there is no money to be made in this right?
> 
> If you can't deal with it I will personally come and pick up Suki, I'll buy her from you because right now I feel very sorry for her.
Click to expand...

No the thing is she is very moody all the time. And I did overreact, I'm just sectioning her off. And only putting in food and water for the next week. If I only cared to make money then why would I have already spent â¬40 and my mother â¬90 and I'm still going to get a hutch tomarrow.We all call her the B!tch I'm sorry but that's just the way me and my friends function. She had some bloody poo hanging off her I got myself all cut up bitten to get it off so I do care I'm just really annoyed. That she ditched them. And that she killed 2 of them. it's just a little bit hard for me to take in she killed her own children. :shock:. I know it's instinctive. And the only reason I said I would sell her because my aunty kept saying "you will have to get ride of her". But people I can't really care for everyones feelings when I have just gotten 2 hours sleep in the last 2 days. AndI saw 2 babies eaten before me. It just really upsets me.


----------



## Sabine

I'll foster her. She seems to be arabbit in need of some TLC


----------



## paul2641

*Sabine wrote: *


> How much are you selling Suki for?


I'm not it was an over-reaction my sister is really at me to get rid of her. But I don't know I'm all confused. And well I can't wait for a whole month of sleepless nights.WOOOOO


----------



## paul2641

*Sabine wrote: *


> I'll foster her. She seems to be arabbit in need of some TLC


It's not happening I still care for her even though I hate her. I will talk my family through it to tell them It is just her instincts.


----------



## irishbunny

I'm sorry Paul, but I still don't think your a rabbit person, I agree with Sabine, she has been through an awful lot since you took her, she needs some love and attention, then she wouldn't be such a ''bitch'', and both me and Sabine are offering to take her and do that. I think eventually you will realise rabbits aren't the right pet for you.


----------



## Becca

*paul2641 wrote: *


> *Sabine wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> I'll foster her. She seems to be arabbit in need of some TLC
> 
> 
> 
> It's not happening I still care for her even though I hate her. I will talk my family through it to tell them It is just her instincts.
Click to expand...


So you hate her but you want to keep her in a place where she doesn't get the right love?


----------



## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> I'm sorry Paul, but I still don't think your a rabbit person, I agree with Sabine, she has been through an awful lot since you took her, she needs some love and attention, then she wouldn't be such a 'bitch', and both me and Sabine are offering to take her and do that. I think eventually you will realise rabbits aren't the right pet for you.


Well I have nothing against roger and sukura. It's just suki never seems to bond with me.


----------



## Bunny_Love

*paul2641 wrote: *


> *Sabine wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> I'll foster her. She seems to be arabbit in need of some TLC
> 
> 
> 
> It's not happening I still care for her even though I hate her. I will talk my family through it to tell them It is just her instincts.
Click to expand...

Im sorry but HATE is a really strong word..if you indeed hate her, you need to find her a better home, two people on here already offered to take her from you! 

I dont think you can care for something yet hate it....


----------



## Becca

Well every rabbit is different they still need interaction not just filling their food and water up everyday.... this will probably get deleted but I want to say it anyway

The right pets for you are fish because they only have a 3 sec memory span so they wont remember how much they are unloved..... sorry but thats how I feel and Mod's feel free to delete it.


----------



## Bunny_Love

*paul2641 wrote: *


> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry Paul, but I still don't think your a rabbit person, I agree with Sabine, she has been through an awful lot since you took her, she needs some love and attention, then she wouldn't be such a 'bitch', and both me and Sabine are offering to take her and do that. I think eventually you will realise rabbits aren't the right pet for you.
> 
> 
> 
> Well I have nothing against roger and sukura. It's just suki never seems to bond with me.
Click to expand...


I bet she can feel how you feel about her...animals are not stupid, they def. pick up on feelings.


----------



## irishbunny

*paul2641 wrote: *


> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry Paul, but I still don't think your a rabbit person, I agree with Sabine, she has been through an awful lot since you took her, she needs some love and attention, then she wouldn't be such a 'bitch', and both me and Sabine are offering to take her and do that. I think eventually you will realise rabbits aren't the right pet for you.
> 
> 
> 
> Well I have nothing against roger and sukura. It's just suki never seems to bond with me.
Click to expand...

Your just not a rabbity person to me.


----------



## paul2641

*Becca wrote: *


> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *Sabine wrote*
> 
> 
> 
> I'll foster her. She seems to be arabbit in need of some TLC
> 
> 
> 
> It's not happening I still care for her even though I hate her. I will talk my family through it to tell them It is just her instincts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you hate her but you want to keep her in a place where she doesn't get the right love?
Click to expand...

Well I don't see how food,water,hay,running around and some petting every day doesn't work. I pet them all. Sukura is put into my arms because she likes it and roger and suki get petted through the door to there cage since they don't like being picked up.There all in separatehousing. I'm getting another hutch for sukura tomarrow.


----------



## Becca

*paul2641 wrote: *


> *Becca wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *Sabine wrote*
> 
> 
> 
> I'll foster her. She seems to be arabbit in need of some TLC
> 
> 
> 
> It's not happening I still care for her even though I hate her. I will talk my family through it to tell them It is just her instincts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you hate her but you want to keep her in a place where she doesn't get the right love?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I don't see how food,water,hay,running around and some petting every day doesn't work. I pet them all. Sukura is put into my arms because she likes it and roger and suki get petted through the door to there cage since they don't like being picked up.There all in separatehousing. I'm getting another hutch for sukura tomarrow.
Click to expand...

Can I just ask do you think of feeding and playing and loving your rabbits as a chore?


----------



## paul2641

All my animals are treated in there own individual ways the way they like. Suki doesn't like me, I'm not going to force her onto me. Forcing her onto a human she doesn't like is the wrong way to go I think. Everyone has the right to say what they feel. All the same my animals live long and healthy lives.


----------



## irishbunny

*Becca wrote: *


> The right pets for you are fish because they only have a 3 sec memory span so they wont remember how much they are unloved..... sorry but thats how I feel and Mod's feel free to delete it.


Good idea Paul, when/if you realise rabbits aren't your thing contact me and Sabine and we'll work something out, especially with Suki.


----------



## paul2641

*Becca wrote: *


> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *Becca wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *Sabine wrote*
> 
> 
> 
> I'll foster her. She seems to be arabbit in need of some TLC
> 
> 
> 
> It's not happening I still care for her even though I hate her. I will talk my family through it to tell them It is just her instincts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you hate her but you want to keep her in a place where she doesn't get the right love?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I don't see how food,water,hay,running around and some petting every day doesn't work. I pet them all. Sukura is put into my arms because she likes it and roger and suki get petted through the door to there cage since they don't like being picked up.There all in separatehousing. I'm getting another hutch for sukura tomarrow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can I just ask do you think of feeding and playing and loving your rabbits as a chore?
Click to expand...

Honestly no I injoy getting up at 6.25 every morning before school to feed them all. I don't mind getting up every 2 hours to feed the rabbits. I love the hamster and the rabbits but just in very differant ways.


----------



## Bunny_Love

*paul2641 wrote: *


> *Becca wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *Becca wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *Sabine wrote*
> 
> 
> 
> I'll foster her. She seems to be arabbit in need of some TLC
> 
> 
> 
> It's not happening I still care for her even though I hate her. I will talk my family through it to tell them It is just her instincts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you hate her but you want to keep her in a place where she doesn't get the right love?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I don't see how food,water,hay,running around and some petting every day doesn't work. I pet them all. Sukura is put into my arms because she likes it and roger and suki get petted through the door to there cage since they don't like being picked up.There all in separatehousing. I'm getting another hutch for sukura tomarrow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can I just ask do you think of feeding and playing and loving your rabbits as a chore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Honestly no I injoy getting up at 6.25 every morning before school to feed them all. I don't mind getting up every 2 hours to feed the rabbits. I love the hamster and the rabbits but just in very differant ways.
Click to expand...

You just said you HATE the rabbit....


----------



## irishbunny

Did the vet tell you how to feed them right? If so tell me what you were told? I don't think petting and giving TlC to Suki is forcing her to bond with you and sectioning her off will make her worse..........


----------



## TinysMom

First of all - I want to remind folks that this thread is NOT about Paul and his treatment of his rabbits. This thread is not here to condemn anyone...Paul or others (even Suki). This thread is to help Paul deal with the baby kits and keeping them alive while mama isn't ready to deal with them.

I can tell from the posts that many of you might not have had an aggressive doe that will not bond with humans. It can be frustrating beyond measure - and heartbreaking too. Add in having a doe like that when you're a "kid" (no offense meant Paul) hurts even worse because as an adult - I'm used to rejection from people - but getting rejected by a rabbit - hurt like the dickens. And some rabbits - does in particular - do not do well with humans. I guess what I'm trying to say is that not all rabbits make good pets. 

For those who are criticizing Paul for calling Suki names - let me tell you - I've had does that I've called those exact names - time and time again. I've also used terms like "Doe from hell" or "she who is from Hades" and other such terms. An aggressive doe can fight and kick and bite and hurt like...the dickens.

So while you all might have opinions of Paul right now - I would like to remind everyone that our focus needs to be on the baby bunnies and keeping them alive. 

Paul - as someone who has had does much like Suki - let me share a few things I've learned.


I have found out that my does pick up on my emotions towards them and react to them. Therefore, I've had to sometimes walk away - yell at the wall - punch a pillow - and then come back to deal with them - oftentimes with the scars of their kicks and bites. The key thing was - getting myself calm - and reminding myself that they were acting out of instinct - and not that they were horrible or hated me. They simply didn't understand about being a pet. Two of those same does are now sweethearts....well ... maybe more than that when I count Miss Bea - who would box our hands when we opened her cage door. My point? An aggressive doe can change her behavior with lots of love over a period of time. It means accepting her as she is and letting her learn to trust you. You can do it - I believe in you.
Secondly - your doe is probably very confused right now. I forget how old she is .... but I find first time mamas to be really skittish and I've had even experienced mamas hurt the babies - sometimes because the babies scare them when they cry. Please understand - she is confused. I wish I could find a word picture to give you of how she feels - the only thing I can think of is if someone was yelling at you in Russian and you didn't understand and you thought they were threatening you but they were trying to say "How are you doing?" You would be unable to understand them - and so you would act on what you feel your basic instincts are. So is the case with Suki.
Finally - I had a doe that killed a baby that was very very special to me - it wasn't even her baby - it was from the next cage over and it got into her cage when it was about 9 days old. It was a "Charly" something I very much wanted for my breeding program. It was the only charly I'd ever had - and I thought it was a boy which made it more valuable to me. It was hard to not take her and yell at her. But what I did - was to take her and put her in my lap and love on her. That's right - I forced myself to love on her - and I chose to forgive her for acting like a rabbit. As time went on - I really did feel forgiveness for her - even though I didn't feel it emotionally at the time.

You can do this - you can forgive Suki for acting like a very confused doe - and you can choose to love her anyway. It may take her time to get used to you - if you've ever read my stories about Tiny - you'll see how for months and over a year even - I was discouraged about him because he and I didn't have a connection. Yet - by the time he died - he would climb into my lap when I sat on the floor and cover me with kisses. This was from the rabbit who wanted NOTHING to do with me.

Be patient with Suki. Love her as she is - choose to make more time to spend with her - even if it is just sitting on the floor and reading a book and letting her explore the room and watch you from a distance. Who knows...she may wind up becoming a heart bunny if you will invest some time in her.

But I understand what you call her now....trust me - I've had several does that share that same name. Usually its said as I'm pulling my hand back from the latest kick, bite or nip.....oftentimes with blood flowing....

Good luck with the babies...


----------



## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> Did the vet tell you how to feed them right? If so tell me what you were told? I don't think petting and giving TlC to Suki is forcing her to bond with you and sectioning her off will make her worse..........


The woman in the store told us to put it in from the side and let the rabbit suckle. I never said I was forcing her to bond to me. And she is doing great now like nothing happened. Just finished the rabbits 3rd feed every 2 hours I feed them.


----------



## polly

Ok guys take it easy. From a breeders perspective Paul isnt having an easy time of it

Paul I know this is hard for you but I personally and I don't think any other mod will be happy to see you calling your rabbit a b!tch. I do not want to see it in the rabbitry again ok!! No matter how you feel keep it down a bit as it is upsetting other people. 

Your rabbit has had to go through a whole pregnany stuck in a hutch with abuck I have does that can be nasty when pregnant because they do not want to be touched and they don't want you in their space so its no wonder she hasn't been in the best of moods. 

As for killing them you said she was in a noisy room at first and you were gonna move her. None of this is good for a doe esp when she is pregnant or has had babies. There is no way you should have had your buck and doe in together and saying that you didn't think they would mate is foolish they are rabbits !! they are sexually reproductive from very young. 

When she is biting etc when you go in its beause she is protective of her area she is very hormonal right now. She has not taken care of the kits because she is stressed.


----------



## irishbunny

Princess bites me when I put my hand in her cage and attacks my leg when I'm in her run, it doesn't mean I call her a bitch, section her off from human contact and just give her food and water, I still love her and snuggle her and she knows she's loved and will sit with meand groom me, treat Suki with some respect.

Stop rushing with breeding tooand looking to buy every rabbit you set your eyes on, so far you are getting angoras, american fuzzy lops, lionlops, netherland dwarfs, and you don't even know what a rabbit is yet. Get to know the rabbits you have now and be thankful for what you have.


----------



## polly

Paul to get back on track how many babies do you have left? where are you keeping them and how are they doing?


----------



## paul2641

*TinysMom wrote: *


> First of all - I want to remind folks that this thread is NOT about Paul and his treatment of his rabbits. This thread is not here to condemn anyone...Paul or others (even Suki). This thread is to help Paul deal with the baby kits and keeping them alive while mama isn't ready to deal with them.
> 
> I can tell from the posts that many of you might not have had an aggressive doe that will not bond with humans. It can be frustrating beyond measure - and heartbreaking too. Add in having a doe like that when you're a "kid" (no offense meant Paul) hurts even worse because as an adult - I'm used to rejection from people - but getting rejected by a rabbit - hurt like the dickens. And some rabbits - does in particular - do not do well with humans. I guess what I'm trying to say is that not all rabbits make good pets.
> 
> For those who are criticizing Paul for calling Suki names - let me tell you - I've had does that I've called those exact names - time and time again. I've also used terms like "Doe from hell" or "she who is from Hades" and other such terms. An aggressive doe can fight and kick and bite and hurt like...the dickens.
> 
> So while you all might have opinions of Paul right now - I would like to remind everyone that our focus needs to be on the baby bunnies and keeping them alive.
> 
> Paul - as someone who has had does much like Suki - let me share a few things I've learned.
> 
> 
> I have found out that my does pick up on my emotions towards them and react to them. Therefore, I've had to sometimes walk away - yell at the wall - punch a pillow - and then come back to deal with them - oftentimes with the scars of their kicks and bites. The key thing was - getting myself calm - and reminding myself that they were acting out of instinct - and not that they were horrible or hated me. They simply didn't understand about being a pet. Two of those same does are now sweethearts....well ... maybe more than that when I count Miss Bea - who would box our hands when we opened her cage door. My point? An aggressive doe can change her behavior with lots of love over a period of time. It means accepting her as she is and letting her learn to trust you. You can do it - I believe in you.
> Secondly - your doe is probably very confused right now. I forget how old she is .... but I find first time mamas to be really skittish and I've had even experienced mamas hurt the babies - sometimes because the babies scare them when they cry. Please understand - she is confused. I wish I could find a word picture to give you of how she feels - the only thing I can think of is if someone was yelling at you in Russian and you didn't understand and you thought they were threatening you but they were trying to say "How are you doing?" You would be unable to understand them - and so you would act on what you feel your basic instincts are. So is the case with Suki.
> Finally - I had a doe that killed a baby that was very very special to me - it wasn't even her baby - it was from the next cage over and it got into her cage when it was about 9 days old. It was a "Charly" something I very much wanted for my breeding program. It was the only charly I'd ever had - and I thought it was a boy which made it more valuable to me. It was hard to not take her and yell at her. But what I did - was to take her and put her in my lap and love on her. That's right - I forced myself to love on her - and I chose to forgive her for acting like a rabbit. As time went on - I really did feel forgiveness for her - even though I didn't feel it emotionally at the time.
> 
> You can do this - you can forgive Suki for acting like a very confused doe - and you can choose to love her anyway. It may take her time to get used to you - if you've ever read my stories about Tiny - you'll see how for months and over a year even - I was discouraged about him because he and I didn't have a connection. Yet - by the time he died - he would climb into my lap when I sat on the floor and cover me with kisses. This was from the rabbit who wanted NOTHING to do with me.
> 
> Be patient with Suki. Love her as she is - choose to make more time to spend with her - even if it is just sitting on the floor and reading a book and letting her explore the room and watch you from a distance. Who knows...she may wind up becoming a heart bunny if you will invest some time in her.
> 
> But I understand what you call her now....trust me - I've had several does that share that same name. Usually its said as I'm pulling my hand back from the latest kick, bite or nip.....oftentimes with blood flowing....
> 
> Good luck with the babies...


Finally someone who understands me. I will try very hard to love suki. I do love her body and her coat she is a charly(I think anyway) she is really pretty to me. It's just the personality, say you could get more love from hitler.I will try to bond with her tomarrow.


----------



## irishbunny

*paul2641 wrote: *


> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> Did the vet tell you how to feed them right? If so tell me what you were told? I don't think petting and giving TlC to Suki is forcing her to bond with you and sectioning her off will make her worse..........
> 
> 
> 
> The woman in the store told us to put it in from the side and let the rabbit suckle. I never said I was forcing her to bond to me. And she is doing great now like nothing happened. Just finished the rabbits 3rd feed every 2 hours I feed them.
Click to expand...

You should take every baby out individually, lay them on their backs and then let them feed, then you need to penetrate them so they can pee, their mother usually licks them there.


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## Happi Bun

I'm lost with all the arguing... What is the current situation?


----------



## paul2641

*polly wrote: *


> Ok guys take it easy. From a breeders perspective Paul isnt having an easy time of it
> 
> Paul I know this is hard for you but I personally and I don't think any other mod will be happy to see you calling your rabbit a b!tch. I do not want to see it in the rabbitry again ok!! No matter how you feel keep it down a bit as it is upsetting other people.
> 
> Your rabbit has had to go through a whole pregnany stuck in a hutch with abuck I have does that can be nasty when pregnant because they do not want to be touched and they don't want you in their space so its no wonder she hasn't been in the best of moods.
> 
> As for killing them you said she was in a noisy room at first and you were gonna move her. None of this is good for a doe esp when she is pregnant or has had babies. There is no way you should have had your buck and doe in together and saying that you didn't think they would mate is foolish they are rabbits !! they are sexually reproductive from very young.
> 
> When she is biting etc when you go in its beause she is protective of her area she is very hormonal right now. She has not taken care of the kits because she is stressed.


Ok sorry I will bite my tongue from now on. Suki wasn't in a noisey room today because the tv was off today everyone was in the sitting room talking quitly tv hasn't even been turned on today. I didn't move her from any cage since I got her. Roger was taken out just before she went into labour.


----------



## aurora369

I agree with Peg and Polly. Let's keep this thread on the subject of how to keep the babies alive and healthy.

As Polly requested above, Paul why don't you summarize what you have done since the babies have been born? Step by step, tell us what you have done with mom and babies, what kind of environment they have been in and what changes have been made.

This will gives us a better understanding of the situation, so we can give you the most relivant advice. Once we have an idea of what exactly has happened, we can advise you about what we think is the best plan of action for you.

It's difficult to follow all the posts especially with all the bickering, and to understand exactly what has been going on.

I know you can work through this Paul. Emotionally, it sucks. But just remember to try and stay calm.

--Dawn


----------



## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> Did the vet tell you how to feed them right? If so tell me what you were told? I don't think petting and giving TlC to Suki is forcing her to bond with you and sectioning her off will make her worse..........
> 
> 
> 
> The woman in the store told us to put it in from the side and let the rabbit suckle. I never said I was forcing her to bond to me. And she is doing great now like nothing happened. Just finished the rabbits 3rd feed every 2 hours I feed them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You should take every baby out individually, lay them on their backs and then let them feed, then you need to penetrate them so they can pee, their mother usually licks them there.
Click to expand...

That's what I have been doing. By cousin is very good at first aid even for animals and she told me what to do. Also the one at the store was very helpful. We have 2 babies left they seem to be fighting, one is missing half an ear the other has major bruising inside her body. The vet said leave them along for the next few days if there going to survive there going to survive.


----------



## irishbunny

I still think you need to relax on the whole being desperate to be a breeder thing and be realistic about it, I think your living in a bit of a fantasy world and not thinking what's best for the rabbits.


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## TinysMom

*paul2641 wrote:*


> Finally someone who understands me. I will try very hard to love suki. I do love her body and her coat she is a charly(I think anyway) she is really pretty to me. It's just the personality, say you could get more love from hitler.I will try to bond with her tomarrow.


Paul....don't try to bond with her yet. Let her handle her babies (if they survive) and get through the weaning process. Maybe play with her a bit - but she is going to have enough on her plate being a mama - to not have to worry about trying to bond with you.

When things have settled down - then take the time to work with her. It can be done - just keep telling yourself it can be done.

But let her be a mama first and get the babies weaned and all that.

Oh - I almost forgot - one of my most aggressive first time mamas (that killed all her babies) - went on to become one of my best mamas with her second, third and fourth litter. She also learned to trust me before those litters and while she would still charge me when I went to check on them (till their eyes were open) - she was also ok with me and didn't try to bite me - she just wanted to warn me away.

With time - Suki can change and she can not only trust you - but be a good mama.


----------



## irishbunny

*TinysMom wrote: *


> *paul2641 wrote:*





> Finally someone who understands me. I will try very hard to love suki. I do love her body and her coat she is a charly(I think anyway) she is really pretty to me. It's just the personality, say you could get more love from hitler.I will try to bond with her tomarrow.





> Paul....don't try to bond with her yet. Let her handle her babies (if they survive) and get through the weaning process. Maybe play with her a bit - but she is going to have enough on her plate being a mama - to not have to worry about trying to bond with you.
> 
> When things have settled down - then take the time to work with her. It can be done - just keep telling yourself it can be done.
> 
> But let her be a mama first and get the babies weaned and all that.
> 
> Oh - I almost forgot - one of my most aggressive first time mamas (that killed all her babies) - went on to become one of my best mamas with her second, third and fourth litter. She also learned to trust me before those litters and while she would still charge me when I went to check on them (till their eyes were open) - she was also ok with me and didn't try to bite me - she just wanted to warn me away.
> 
> With time - Suki can change and she can not only trust you - but be a good mama.


It all comes down to respect


----------



## polly

Ok Paul so you have 2 live babies that are somewhere away from their mum. How are their tummies with your hand feeding them? The bruising will go down sometimes they can get a bit bruised being born (or I have found that with the nethies)

Is there absolutely no way you can get your mama bun to stay still while you get the babies under her for a feed? its certainly the best for the babies its much harder to hand rear them though it sounds like you are doing a good job.

ANd Tiny's mum (Peg) is right don't try to bond with her right now let her hormones settle down


----------



## BlueCamasRabbitry

*paul2641 wrote: *


> *Sabine wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> How much are you selling Suki for?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not it was an over-reaction my sister is really at me to get rid of her. But I don't know I'm all confused. And well I can't wait for a whole month of sleepless nights.WOOOOO
Click to expand...



Where is this coming from?1 month of sleepless nights?Do you think the babies are going to cost you those sleepless nights? 
They're not like human babies...  I don't see how you'llget 1 month of sleepless nights? :?

If you mean you'll get less sleep from hand-rearing, you should only be feeding them at least 2x a day, I would think. Mothers only feed them in the early morning, and sometimes they'll feed again at night. 

Emily


----------



## paul2641

Starting from 2am last night

I was heading to bed and something rang in my mind check on the rabbits. So I went down stairs I noticed suki had her mane all pulled I was like oh uh she is going into labour I took roger out. But then it stuck me this has happened before and I just ended up with a great mess. So anyway I put roger back in suki began to attack I took him out again. Then 10 minutes later suki gave birth to 6 live babies she just left them and cleaned herself up. 

2.40am 

I notice she hasn't tended to her kits so I rub my hands all over her and in all her poo and urine so her scent is on me. I touch the babies to see there all ice cold. I run to my labtop to set up this thread to look for helpful advice. I was told to build a nest with hay and bedding, I did this put them all in it. they weren't staying they wanted to move about. so them suki begins to build a dome shaped nest witch she set next to for about 2 hours I sitted there from a far distance with all lights off watching she didn't tend to them but just set next to the nest.

4am 

I went to bed.

7.02 am 

I got back up to notice all kits were alive but scattered I put them in the nest suki built(suki had no interest in them). I stayed for awhile just to make sure they were alive. 

9.30 am 

I left the house for 34 minutes to go to mass.

10.04 am 

I returned to see she had half eaten one of the babies. I left them in thinking it's the runt but then she went over to another one(I just thought she was getting it ready to go to the toilet) but she began to chew off an arm. 

10.07 am 

I began to remove babies witch were all cold( only 4 left). I rapped them into warm blankets. 

10.24am

I got the yellow pages to look for the number of a vet they were all closed. Thank god one had an emergancy number( this was an emergancy) so I rang the female vet(meave) didn't really know what to do but she contacted another vet rabbit savvy and got me the information I needed.( She called back in about 35 min). And told me to get kitten milk formula.

11.00am 

My aunty calls saying would we like a lift anywhere and mam goes to pet mania we need to get kitten milk formula for the baby rabbits. ( we still had four at this stage) So she got in like 15 min later. We got are plans set and we left. Thank god my aunty didn't take us to pet mania but rather mezi zoo plus( something along that line) Where the assistent was very helpful she set us up with a little bottle and the forumula. Then my aunty wanted to look around that took an hour. So then we go to pet mania to get a hutch but none of them were what we needed. SoI just buy food for the rabbits(pellets and hay the hay from mezi zoo plus)and hamster food. So then we got home.

3.45pm

We went for dinner aswell that's were all the time went. So it takes us some time to get the formula ready about 15 min (still had 4 kits) We got feeding but in the process 2 died. And I have fed them 3 more times now. and I am feeding them every 2 hours.The 2 alive one has part of his ear missing, the second one has internal bruising from suki.

We tried to get suki to feed them twice no chance. 

But the thing is there not extremely fat but way less skinny then they were, Is this good?

Just checked this minute and there going good.


----------



## irishbunny

*polly wrote: *


> Ok Paul so you have 2 live babies that are somewhere away from their mum. How are their tummies with your hand feeding them? The bruising will go down sometimes they can get a bit bruised being born (or I have found that with the nethies)
> 
> Is there absolutely no way you can get your mama bun to stay still while you get the babies under her for a feed? its certainly the best for the babies its much harder to hand rear them though it sounds like you are doing a good job.
> 
> ANd Tiny's mum (Peg) is right don't try to bond with her right now let her hormones settle down



I suggested this to him various times and so did Tiny'smomand he said he would try it at the last feed but didn't


> Where is this coming from?1 month of sleepless nights?Do you think the babies are going to cost you those sleepless nights?
> They're not like human babies...  I don't see how you'llget 1 month of sleepless nights? :?
> 
> If you mean you'll get less sleep from hand-rearing, you should only be feeding them at least 2x a day, I would think. Mothers only feed them in the early morning, and sometimes they'll feed again at night.
> 
> Emily


Paul called the doe a bitch and said he hated her so Sabine said she would take her if he didn't want her. I also agree about the 2x daily thing, that's what I was told aswell.


----------



## paul2641

*BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *


> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *Sabine wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> How much are you selling Suki for?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not it was an over-reaction my sister is really at me to get rid of her. But I don't know I'm all confused. And well I can't wait for a whole month of sleepless nights.WOOOOO
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Where is this coming from?1 month of sleepless nights?Do you think the babies are going to cost you those sleepless nights?
> They're not like human babies...  I don't see how you'llget 1 month of sleepless nights? :?
> 
> If you mean you'll get less sleep from hand-rearing, you should only be feeding them at least 2x a day, I would think. Mothers only feed them in the early morning, and sometimes they'll feed again at night.
> 
> Emily
Click to expand...

The vet told me every 2 hours because it's a supplement. And it's not half as good as mommas milk.


----------



## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> *polly wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> Ok Paul so you have 2 live babies that are somewhere away from their mum. How are their tummies with your hand feeding them? The bruising will go down sometimes they can get a bit bruised being born (or I have found that with the nethies)
> 
> Is there absolutely no way you can get your mama bun to stay still while you get the babies under her for a feed? its certainly the best for the babies its much harder to hand rear them though it sounds like you are doing a good job.
> 
> ANd Tiny's mum (Peg) is right don't try to bond with her right now let her hormones settle down
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suggested this to him various times and so did Tiny'smomand he said he would try it at the last feed but didn't
> 
> 
> 
> Where is this coming from?1 month of sleepless nights?Do you think the babies are going to cost you those sleepless nights?
> They're not like human babies...  I don't see how you'llget 1 month of sleepless nights? :?
> 
> If you mean you'll get less sleep from hand-rearing, you should only be feeding them at least 2x a day, I would think. Mothers only feed them in the early morning, and sometimes they'll feed again at night.
> 
> Emily
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Paul called the doe a bitch and said he hated her so Sabine said she would take her if he didn't want her. I also agree about the 2x daily thing, that's what I was told aswell.
Click to expand...

I'd rather chance hand rearing then them getting eaten.


----------



## Sabine

Shouldn't it be possible with the help of two people to hold Suki still and let the babies suckle. I have never done this but with a bit of help and perserverance it should be possible


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## paul2641

*Sabine wrote: *


> Shouldn't it be possible with the help of two people to hold Suki still and let the babies suckle. I have never done this but with a bit of help and perserverance it should be possible


I can't get her out she keeps attacking me.


----------



## aurora369

I have not hand fed babies, I've always been able to get them fed off of the mother rabbit, so I have no first hand experience hand rearing.

Naturstee, I believe hand reared her little Dora bunny. Paul, you may want to send her a PM asking for her input in this thread.

I do know that kitten milk replacement is no where near as good as mom's milk and that many people advise feeding more often to make up for that.

Is it possible for you to hold mom with her belly exposed, like on her back, while someone else holds a baby to her nipples? This method really needs two people to be done properly. Someone always has to keep their hand on the baby in case mom struggles, so that the baby doesn't get kicked get scratched.

I think we all need to forgive Paul for calling his bunny names. We all do things in the moment of high emotional strain. We need to move forward, and focus on the care of the remaining babies.

Lets all agree to stay calm, and help Paul through this difficult time. Getting all riled up is not going to help the situation or the babies.

--Dawn


----------



## paul2641

*aurora369 wrote: *


> I have not hand fed babies, I've always been able to get them fed off of the mother rabbit, so I have no first hand experience hand rearing.
> 
> Naturstee, I believe hand reared her little Dora bunny. Paul, you may want to send her a PM asking for her input in this thread.
> 
> I do know that kitten milk replacement is no where near as good as mom's milk and that many people advise feeding more often to make up for that.
> 
> Is it possible for you to hold mom with her belly exposed, like on her back, while someone else holds a baby to her nipples? This method really needs two people to be done properly. Someone always has to keep their hand on the baby in case mom struggles, so that the baby doesn't get kicked get scratched.
> 
> I think we all need to forgive Paul for calling his bunny names. We all do things in the moment of high emotional strain. We need to move forward, and focus on the care of the remaining babies.
> 
> Lets all agree to stay calm, and help Paul through this difficult time. Getting all riled up is not going to help the situation or the babies.
> 
> --Dawn


I'll try now. 3rd attempt to try and get her out.


----------



## polly

Did you give her a treat or anything to keep her occupied while you tried to let the babies feed? just wondering its def. easier if you can.

As for the hand rearing you are right Paul you have to do it every few hours as they don't get as much as they would from mum. Its harder for them to suckle from the bottles and generally when I have had to do it we use a very small syringe and do it drop at a time. Just use some damp cotton wool (warm) on their tums afterwards to stimulate them to go wee and poop.


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## irishbunny

Try everything before you give up, if at all possible they should get their mothers milk, because for kits that don't there is a high mortality rate. Do the treat thing and hold her still, she might let the kits suckle. I'd be carefull about holding her on her back because you don't have a good bond with her she will struggle and injure herself or the babies.


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## aurora369

Paul, I found Naturstee's thread on her hand reared babies.
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=39089&forum_id=8

You should give it a read and see if you can get any tips from it.

--Dawn


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## paul2641

LADS I brought suki up to see would see let them suckle(I am all bitten and scratched up) Anyway we spent a good 15 min at it.The one missing an ear latched onto a nipple and sucked, I don't know did s/he get anything. Bad news is that the one with the bruising wouldn't go near the nipple he went on it for a second and pulled away. I am not going to give the supplement to them from 8.00am to 12.00am tomarrow so they will be hungry for mommas milk. Is this good?


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## paul2641

I read just there that If I have to hand rear the babies I shouldadd the chain poos (if any of my rabbits have them) and add them into the formula shoud I do this?


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## polly

Well done I know its not easy I would give the doe a treat afterwards for letting you try it. It can be a fiddly business especially whenthey don't want to cooperate. I have hand fed a few but not thatmany so Naturestee or someone would be better at telling you than I am but I would give it a few hours then have another go with the motherif it was me.


----------



## irishbunny

*paul2641 wrote: *


> LADS I brought suki up to see would see let them suckle(I am all bitten and scratched up) Anyway we spent a good 15 min at it.The one missing an ear latched onto a nipple and sucked, I don't know did s/he get anything. Bad news is that the one with the bruising wouldn't go near the nipple he went on it for a second and pulled away. I am not going to give the supplement to them from 8.00am to 12.00am tomarrow so they will be hungry for mommas milk. Is this good?


That's good that one of them suckled, I would give your idea a try anyway, someone might come on and say not to but I think it's ok. The one that didn't latch on might have something wrong with it, didn't you say it had internal bruising? How is it doing when your hand feeding?


----------



## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> LADS I brought suki up to see would see let them suckle(I am all bitten and scratched up) Anyway we spent a good 15 min at it.The one missing an ear latched onto a nipple and sucked, I don't know did s/he get anything. Bad news is that the one with the bruising wouldn't go near the nipple he went on it for a second and pulled away. I am not going to give the supplement to them from 8.00am to 12.00am tomarrow so they will be hungry for mommas milk. Is this good?
> 
> 
> 
> That's good that one of them suckled, I would give your idea a try anyway, someone might come on and say not to but I think it's ok. The one that didn't latch on might have something wrong with it, didn't you say it had internal bruising? How is it doing when your hand feeding?
Click to expand...

It's doing great when I bottle feed it. I hope these last to survive I've already lost 4. I'm now spending some quality time with sukura(my baby). I don't see anything to bad with not bottle feeding them for a few hours it's only missing 1 meal. Ohh and polly I'm defo going to get them to suckle again.


----------



## irishbunny

Looks like your trying to patch everything up which is good, spending quality time with all your rabbits is good, try it with Suki too, I bet shes not aggresive outside of her cage. Princess bites me when I put my hand in her cage and attacks my leg when I go in her run, it's just a territorial thing and don't be surprised if Sukura starts acting liking Suki, alot of does are that way once they are mature. Her beingaggresive is nothing personal towards you, it's just her hormones and instincts and if you do start breeding, your going to meet alotmore does just like her.

Outside of her territory, me and Princess have a great relationship, I groom her and she grooms me, rabbits can pick things up and if your sending negative vibes towards Suki, she'll know, it would make a whole lot more difference if you treated her with respect, like I do with Princess. You just have to accept that Suki is the way she is and so are many more un-spayed does.


----------



## polly

Good luck Paul I hope it works out and these 2 survive for you.


----------



## Baby Juliet

I find it very hard to get a rabbit out the front door of a cage but have no problem getting hold of the back and picking rabbit out the top door.

Keep trying to get the mother to nurse but only a few minutes twice a day. I usually keep the kits in a box seperate from the mom. Each day I put mom in the nest box. When she's finished she goes outdoors again. This way I know the kits are getting fed. If they are together it's unlikely you'll time it so you see them feeding.

You might have tried too hard and stressed the mom. If you left her alone and just try once or twice a day to get her to feed she may be less bitchy. Either she'll let the kits feed or not. 

When I had my first rabbit I harrass her all day because well meaning people said they needed company. Some rabbits need quiet time to themselves and don't really want constant human contact. If your mother or girl friend were to hug you every hour you'll probably find it pretty annoying.


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## paul2641

Were exactly do you rub them to get them to go toilet?, Is it the stomach? It just came to me what I thought to be bruising could be just the markings of a charley seeing as the mother is a charley.They have really round heads. I just fed them again on the supplement. And I will feed them again in 3 hours.


----------



## PepnFluff

Get a tissue orcotton ball and dip it in warm water then on the babies privates rub them gently with which should stimulate them to go pees and poops the mum usually licks them to make them go but this just replicates it.


----------



## Happi Bun

Just remember overfeeding is a leading cause of death with orphaned babies and it results in fatal intestinal disease. 

To answer your question I will post a section from the HRS website:



> After each feeding it is important to make the bunny defecate and urinate (until their eyes are open) to keep the intestinal tract and urinary system running smoothly. Use a cotton ball moistened with warm water and gently stroke the anal area until the bunny starts producing stool and urine and keep stroking until the bunny stops. You are reproducing the behavior of the mother rabbit who would lick her young to stimulate them to go to the bathroom and to keep the nest clean.


You should really check it out, it answers all questions regarding hand rearing baby rabbits. What you should and should not do, etc.

http://www.rabbit.org/care/orphan.html


----------



## BlueGiants

I'm so sorry I missed all this! (Darn computer problems!) I'm sorry your doe has given you so much trouble. As Peg said, not all rabbits make good pets. And first time momma's can get so confused. You need to have patience and understanding.

Paul, moisten a cotton ball in warm water and gently stroke their belly and privates. Have patience, you may need to do it for a few minutes, until they figure out what their supposed to do. The cotton ball will turn yellow if they "go". I would also recommend using a clean cotton ball dipped in warm water to clean their faces. Formula usually is sticky and can cause skin problems if not cleaned up. 

Even thought the formula is not as good as mother's milk, I wouldn't feed more than every 6 hours (4 times a day). 

paul2641* wrote:



I read just there that If I have to hand rear the babies I shouldadd the chain poos (if any of my rabbits have them) and add them into the formula shoud I do this?

Click to expand...

*Don't worry about that for now. You will want to try doing that when they are about 3 weeks old, and you will want to use the soft, "grape cluster" cecotropes from a healthy doe. (Even from momma, if you can.)


----------



## Starlight Rabbitry

Can you post pictures of the babies? Especially the "bruised" one. They could indeed be markings.

Sharon


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## irishbunny

How are the babies and Suki today?


----------



## paul2641

Momma was very good today. She has let me feed the babies off her twice, the reason I fed them twice off her was because there getting very little only suckling for a minute at A time. I really think it's just a marking because the father roger has them on kis body too. I'm also still bottle feeding just not as much. And I am rubbing there stomachs with a hot cotten swab. I don't always do It till they go but they have weed and pood.


----------



## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> How are the babies and Suki today?


Still have 2 left. One is a better eater then the other(one with half an ear) the other one with full ears is a bit of a wiggler but doesn't really eat.


----------



## Becca

Look Paul, I'm sorry for before  I was a bit snappy last night with everyone and anybody that got in my way LOL!

Soooo Good luck with the other 2 babies and Suki, keep us updated


----------



## paul2641

Hi I was wondering when I go back to school. Will this set up be ok to feed the babies. 

5 in the morning by mother

6.50 in the morning by mother

and then next feed

5pm my mother 

is that gap too much if so I'll find someone to feed them inbetween


----------



## paul2641

*Becca wrote: *


> Look Paul, I'm sorry for before  I was a bit snappy last night with everyone and anybody that got in my way LOL!
> 
> Soooo Good luck with the other 2 babies and Suki, keep us updated


OMG Becca don't worry. I did say stupid things.


----------



## irishbunny

If you feed them off their mother all the time and no hand feedingthen you'll only have to do it 2-3 times a day, like they would if they were with their mother full time. Lot's of breeders do that in the winter, they take the babies in and just bring them out twice a day to be fed. If it's possible to feed them just off their mother you'd get alot more sleep and the babies would get a way higher chance of survivel. How are you getting on with feeding from the doe?


----------



## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> If you feed them off their mother all the time and no hand feedingthen you'll only have to do it 2-3 times a day, like they would if they were with their mother full time. Lot's of breeders do that in the winter, they take the babies in and just bring them out twice a day to be fed. If it's possible to feed them just off their mother you'd get alot more sleep and the babies would get a way higher chance of survivel. How are you getting on with feeding from the doe?


It's going good, But they won't stay on themother for more then 2 min.


----------



## TinysMom

It doesn't take long for babies to nurse - as long as they have ping pong bellies - they are getting fed.


----------



## paul2641

*TinysMom wrote: *


> It doesn't take long for babies to nurse - as long as they have ping pong bellies - they are getting fed.


The bellies arn't really skinny but not to big, Is that ok?


----------



## irishbunny

Look at the baby pictures on this link, the baby in this picture is healthy and well fed, do your babies look like this? It would be great if you could take some pics, even with a phone.

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=42313&forum_id=8


----------



## irishbunny

http://www.bugs-bunny-barn.com/images/sidebysidekits2daysold1.jpg

Here is another pic of two day old kits, the small one is a peanut, your babies are around the same age and if they aren't peanuts and are being well fed by their mother they should look like the big kit.


----------



## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> http://www.bugs-bunny-barn.com/images/sidebysidekits2daysold1.jpg
> 
> Here is another pic of two day old kits, the small one is a peanut, your babies are around the same age and if they aren't peanuts and are being well fed by their mother they should look like the big kit.


There not that fat a little bit smaller aswell. But there warm. Thanks Gracie for the help.


----------



## irishbunny

Kk no problem


----------



## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> Kk no problem


OMG mam just rang me to say they were out of all the hutches but they have ones not yet assembled so they will assemble it and deliver it to the door. it is worth â¬85 it's supposed to be massive!! It will be delivered at about 3.30pm tomorrow. Is everyone happy?


----------



## Sabine

It's not about keeping everyone happy but something that should help you keep your rabbits safe


----------



## paul2641

*Sabine wrote: *


> It's not about keeping everyone happy but something that should help you keep your rabbits safe


I wonder how big is big. It would be so cool if it's two story.


----------



## irishbunny

Are you going to have money to get something for the babies if they survive, or are you just going by chance? Since the babies will have their eyes open in a week and a half.


----------



## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> Are you going to have money to get something for the babies if they survive, or are you just going by chance? Since the babies will have their eyes open in a week and a half.



I have money. But I have a large hamster cage that I'll put one of them into, And I have a large budgie cage aswell. These were all spares. My budgie died after 4 years, got the second hamster cage off cousin because they killed there hamster by throwing it off a wall.:XHe was so cute.


----------



## Ringer

they need to be kept warm above all else. If they are cool you can put them under your shirt and hold them near your heart for a few minutr=es to warm them. Then Put them together in the nest. If mother has pulled fur you can cover them with it. If not you can cover them with any fluffy matter like cotton. I tried kleenex once but the kits made holes in it and got too tangled.

My mother rabbit ever made nests so I had to make sure they were gathered together. If they stay together they will be warm. Ringer had her babies in a cat cube so at least they were all together. A little box will do too.


----------



## Sabine

*Ringer wrote: *


> they need to be kept warm above all else. If they are cool you can put them under your shirt and hold them near your heart for a few minutr=es to warm them. Then Put them together in the nest. If mother has pulled fur you can cover them with it. If not you can cover them with any fluffy matter like cotton. I tried kleenex once but the kits made holes in it and got too tangled.
> 
> My mother rabbit ever made nests so I had to make sure they were gathered together. If they stay together they will be warm. Ringer had her babies in a cat cube so at least they were all together. A little box will do too.


Basically don't split them up and put one in the hamster and the other in the budgy cage. By the time they move aboyt either cage will be too small


----------



## paul2641

*Ringer wrote: *


> they need to be kept warm above all else. If they are cool you can put them under your shirt and hold them near your heart for a few minutr=es to warm them. Then Put them together in the nest. If mother has pulled fur you can cover them with it. If not you can cover them with any fluffy matter like cotton. I tried kleenex once but the kits made holes in it and got too tangled.
> 
> My mother rabbit ever made nests so I had to make sure they were gathered together. If they stay together they will be warm. Ringer had her babies in a cat cube so at least they were all together. A little box will do too.


Babies are separate from momma, in a box in the sitting room so they will stay warm. I'll get suki to feed them when mam gets home.


----------



## irishbunny

*paul2641 wrote: *


> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> Are you going to have money to get something for the babies if they survive, or are you just going by chance? Since the babies will have their eyes open in a week and a half.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have money. But I have a large hamster cage that I'll put one of them into, And I have a large budgie cage aswell. These were all spares. My budgie died after 4 years, got the second hamster cage off cousin because they killed there hamster by throwing it off a wall.:XHe was so cute.
Click to expand...

You can't spilt them up, they need eachother for warmth, at about 2 weeks old they will start to explore a little.


----------



## paul2641

*Ringer wrote: *


> they need to be kept warm above all else. If they are cool you can put them under your shirt and hold them near your heart for a few minutr=es to warm them. Then Put them together in the nest. If mother has pulled fur you can cover them with it. If not you can cover them with any fluffy matter like cotton. I tried kleenex once but the kits made holes in it and got too tangled.
> 
> My mother rabbit ever made nests so I had to make sure they were gathered together. If they stay together they will be warm. Ringer had her babies in a cat cube so at least they were all together. A little box will do too.


Well there not with there momma, There in a box in the sitting room keeping warm. The momma rejected them.


----------



## irishbunny

So a hamster and budgie cage aren't much good..but do what you want sure.


----------



## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> Are you going to have money to get something for the babies if they survive, or are you just going by chance? Since the babies will have their eyes open in a week and a half.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have money. But I have a large hamster cage that I'll put one of them into, And I have a large budgie cage aswell. These were all spares. My budgie died after 4 years, got the second hamster cage off cousin because they killed there hamster by throwing it off a wall.:XHe was so cute.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't spilt them up, they need eachother for warmth, at about 2 weeks old they will start to explore a little.
Click to expand...

I'll sort them out.


----------



## irishbunny

I mean, do you not think it would be worth getting a decent cage *made* for rabbits that you could use again?


----------



## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> I mean, do you not think it would be worth getting a decent cage *made* for rabbits that you could use again?



I'm getting one tomorrow. I'm really considering getting roger neutered, So after six weeks I can put him back in with suki? Do people think it's OK for me to put roger back in once he is neutered? This isn't me just saying this I just don't want any more babies.

Plus if the one with half an ear survives I might keep him.


----------



## irishbunny

*paul2641 wrote: *


> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, do you not think it would be worth getting a decent cage *made* for rabbits that you could use again?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm getting one tomorrow. I'm really considering getting roger neutered, So after six weeks I can put him back in with suki? Do people think it's OK for me to put roger back in once he is neutered? This isn't me just saying this I just don't want any more babies.
> 
> Plus if the one with half an ear survives I might keep him.
Click to expand...

I ment a cage for the babies and one for Sukura, you could get a normal cage for the babies for 40-50, I can show youa pic of the one I got for Princess for 50, it's a big cage too. I think it's great that you want to get Roger neteured. Would you consider getting Suki spayed? I bet if she was spayed she would calm down alot. I think it's great you don't want anymore babies, since where you live, there isn't enough space and it isn't the right enviromentfor raising rabbit IMO.


----------



## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, do you not think it would be worth getting a decent cage *made* for rabbits that you could use again?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm getting one tomorrow. I'm really considering getting roger neutered, So after six weeks I can put him back in with suki? Do people think it's OK for me to put roger back in once he is neutered? This isn't me just saying this I just don't want any more babies.
> 
> Plus if the one with half an ear survives I might keep him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I ment a cage for the babies and one for Sukura, you could get a normal cage for the babies for 40-50, I can show youa pic of the one I got for Princess for 50, it's a big cage too. I think it's great that you want to get Roger neteured. Would you consider getting Suki spayed? I bet if she was spayed she would calm down alot. I think it's great you don't want anymore babies, since where you live, there isn't enough space and it isn't the right enviromentfor raising rabbit IMO.
Click to expand...

Well I'm thinking of splitting the new one into two for the babies aswell. I would only be getting roger done, well for the time being. And I would still be getting my show quality rabbits in the summer and I would be breeding them. But the rabbits I have at the mo will be kept as pets. And the show quality rabbits will only be bred 3-4 times a year.


----------



## Happi Bun

I would just focus on the task in front of you right now... making sure these two babies survive. I'm guessing Sakura is still in a _box? _I know you already know this but she really needs a suitable cage ASAP. It's a shame you didn't prepare more but that's the past, make sure you learn from these mistakes.


----------



## Baby Juliet

Personally I would let the mother have the cage and just keep the kits in a shoe box or nest box. The kits don't need the room as they justsleep anyway.

I keep kits in the nest box a couple weeks till they can climb out on their own. After that I put thenest box in a cage.


----------



## paul2641

Were getting sukura a new cage tomarrow worth â¬85.


----------



## Happi Bun

It's worth doesn't really mean much, how big is it? That's what matters. 

Edit to add- What size box is she in now?


----------



## paul2641

*Happi Bun wrote: *


> It's worth doesn't really mean much, how big is it? That's what matters.
> 
> Edit to add- What size box is she in now?


Well the hutch is MASSIVE. Sukura has a big enough box because she just sleeps in it, she gets to run around all day.


----------



## Happi Bun

*paul2641 wrote: *


> *Happi Bun wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> It's worth doesn't really mean much, how big is it? That's what matters.
> 
> Edit to add- What size box is she in now?
> 
> 
> 
> Well the hutch is MASSIVE. Sukura has a big enough box because she just sleeps in it, she gets to run around all day.
Click to expand...

Alright, great! :thumbup How are the kits doing? 
Are they going to the bathroom and eating?


----------



## paul2641

*Happi Bun wrote: *


> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *Happi Bun wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> It's worth doesn't really mean much, how big is it? That's what matters.
> 
> Edit to add- What size box is she in now?
> 
> 
> 
> Well the hutch is MASSIVE. Sukura has a big enough box because she just sleeps in it, she gets to run around all day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Alright, great! :thumbup How are the kits doing?
> Are they going to the bathroom and eating?
Click to expand...

Yup there eating and going to the toilet.


----------



## irishbunny

I wouldn't get your hopes up on it being that big, a massive hutch anywhere in Ireland would be in around 200-300. Unless it's some huge closing down sale or something, 85 would get you something along the lines of

This:


----------



## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> I wouldn't get your hopes up on it being that big, a massive hutch anywhere in Ireland would be in around 200-300. Unless it's some huge closing down sale or something, 85 would get you something along the lines of
> 
> This:


I don't know the size of it, but my mother said it's massive. I will tell you is It as big as the one in the photo.


----------



## jcl_24

A new hutch for the buns is good news. Keep up your efforts with all of them Paul 

Jo x


----------



## paul2641

*jcl_24 wrote: *


> A new hutch for the buns is good news. Keep up your efforts with all of them Paul
> 
> Jo x



Thanks.

Update there feeding off mother now all the time. I will only give bottle once a day. they feed off mother 4 times a day. One is defo a bigger eater then the other. They are begining to grow fur and I can see the eyes getting bigger.


----------



## paul2641

We got the hutch there about half an hour ago.It is alot bigger then the one you posted a pic of irishbunny. So now all my rabbits are housed separtely. Sukura is in the new hutch witch is the biggest, Suki in the second biggest and Roger in the smallest but It still is a good size even for him.


----------



## Sabine

What about the babies?


----------



## paul2641

Sabine wrote:


> What about the babies?


There alive, split new hutch into 2 hutches.


----------



## aurora369

At this young age, the babies should be together. It is important for their social growth and development to stay together until they are 8-10 weeks old. They will learn how to interact, and they will emotionally support each other. They will also help keep each other warm, which will help their chances of survival.

It is once they are 8-10 weeks old that you need to separate them so they don't reach sexual maturity and mate with each other if they are boy/girl.

--Dawn


----------



## paul2641

*aurora369 wrote: *


> At this young age, the babies should be together. It is important for their social growth and development to stay together until they are 8-10 weeks old. They will learn how to interact, and they will emotionally support each other. They will also help keep each other warm, which will help their chances of survival.
> 
> It is once they are 8-10 weeks old that you need to separate them so they don't reach sexual maturity and mate with each other if they are boy/girl.
> 
> --Dawn


Yeah they are together, What I meant was split sukuras new cage into two so herself and the kits have somewhere to live.


----------



## TinysMom

:highfive:

Paul - it sounds like you're working hard at trying to do the right things - I'm so proud of you.

WAY TO GO!

How are the kits doing? Any pictures?


----------



## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears

I'm happy the 2 are doing very well. Will definitely need more photo's.


----------



## aurora369

Oh good! I'm glad I just misunderstood what you did.

Sounds like you've got everything under control now. Keep up the good work!

--Dawn


----------



## paul2641

Kits are good, name them Mr wiggles(shakes his head like a dog out of a bath)
Dopey(takes for ever to latch onto a nipple)
They are eatting brillently. I won't have pics till they have hair,sis won't Allow photos if they don't have hair.


----------



## paul2641

Update the babies are doing good, But my question is, one of them is growing and the other isn't(well the one I think isn't growing is very small compared to the sibling any reasons for this?)


----------



## Sabine

I think a picture to see the size difference would help people to tell you if one of them is a peanut baby or if s/he is just not thriving as well


----------



## paul2641

*Sabine wrote: *


> I think a picture to see the size difference would help people to tell you if one of them is a peanut baby or if s/he is just not thriving as well


I can't take pictures my sister won't allow me. It's defo not a peanut because it is eatting.


----------



## Flashy

Peanuts can eat, and can survive for a shrot while (I think gentle giants -?- had one that was a couple of weeks old). There are lots of different types of dwarfism though, and also there may be internal problems that may cause it to not thrive. Are mum and dad related?


----------



## BlueCamasRabbitry

*paul2641 wrote: *


> Kits are good, name them Mr wiggles(shakes his head like a dog out of a bath)
> Dopey(takes for ever to latch onto a nipple)
> They are eatting brillently. I won't have pics till they have hair,sis won't Allow photos if they don't have hair.



Why won't your sister allow pictures? Can't you tell her that we need some to see their size differances, it can aid in their survival? 

Emily


----------



## BSAR

Paul it doesn't matter what your sister thinks. She should not say that you cant take pics because they have no fur. That is crazy!

You really should take pics so we can help you!


----------



## BlueGiants

Paul, taking a photo of them before they have fur won't hurt them. And it will help us help you. If "Dopey" (the one that "takes forever to latch onto a nipple") is a "peanut", they will try to eat, but just won't grow. 

But a photo would help...


----------



## paul2641

Well it is my sisters camera, So I can't just take the photos if she says no. I really hope it's not a peanut, What would the photo have to show for someone to be able to give me a proper answer on is it a peanut or not?


----------



## BlueGiants

We don't want you to get in trouble with yor sister. Don't use her camera unless she gives permisson. But maybe you can explain it to her.

True "peanuts", babies that inherit 2 dwarfing genes from their parents, tend to have subtle physical traits that show up when placed next to a healthy baby. Their head tends to be domed (higher,rounder) than the average baby, they may have "paddle feet", feet that look big for them with a webbing between the toes, their head may appear larger... in not usually in proportion to the rest of the body. 

A photo would show this, especially next to a sibling. 

Unfortunately, a true peanut can't survive. But if it isn't a peanut, we might be able to suggest things to help it along and keep up with it's sibling.


----------



## paul2641

*BlueGiants wrote: *


> We don't want you to get in trouble with yor sister. Don't use her camera unless she gives permisson. But maybe you can explain it to her.
> 
> True "peanuts", babies that inherit 2 dwarfing genes from their parents, tend to have subtle physical traits that show up when placed next to a healthy baby. Their head tends to be domed (higher,rounder) than the average baby, they may have "paddle feet", feet that look big for them with a webbing between the toes, their head may appear larger... in not usually in proportion to the rest of the body.
> 
> A photo would show this, especially next to a sibling.
> 
> Unfortunately, a true peanut can't survive. But if it isn't a peanut, we might be able to suggest things to help it along and keep up with it's sibling.


I'll ask her know see what she says.


----------



## Becca

Do you have a camera phone??


----------



## paul2641

*paul2641 wrote: *


> *BlueGiants wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> We don't want you to get in trouble with yor sister. Don't use her camera unless she gives permisson. But maybe you can explain it to her.
> 
> True "peanuts", babies that inherit 2 dwarfing genes from their parents, tend to have subtle physical traits that show up when placed next to a healthy baby. Their head tends to be domed (higher,rounder) than the average baby, they may have "paddle feet", feet that look big for them with a webbing between the toes, their head may appear larger... in not usually in proportion to the rest of the body.
> 
> A photo would show this, especially next to a sibling.
> 
> Unfortunately, a true peanut can't survive. But if it isn't a peanut, we might be able to suggest things to help it along and keep up with it's sibling.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll ask her know see what she says.
Click to expand...

Her camera is out of battery.


----------



## paul2641

*Becca wrote: *


> Do you have a camera phone??


It doesn't work!!


----------



## BlueGiants

OK, you tried... lets just concentrate on keeping the babies healthy and warm. How are they doing today?


----------



## paul2641

*BlueGiants wrote: *


> OK, you tried... lets just concentrate on keeping the babies healthy and warm. How are they doing today?



The one with half an ear is just so Fat, And the possible peanut is really small but is growing teeth and nails( I didn't notice any of the signs pointing to a peanut when I just checked there).

Mr wiggles is eatting loads. And it seems all the fur that is starting to grow is all white, does this mean they will be white all over there body for the rest of there lives?, or will it change when they malt?


----------



## BlueGiants

They may be white or an off-white color, but they may also develop "points" of color (like a darker nose and ears), like your avatar bunny. The points may not come in for a little while. 

Maybe you can hold back Mr. Wiggles while the Dopey eats first. Give him a couple minutes to fill up first, with less competition from Mr Wiggles. Then put Mr Wiggles under there to eat.


----------



## irishbunny

*paul2641 wrote: *


> *BlueGiants wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> OK, you tried... lets just concentrate on keeping the babies healthy and warm. How are they doing today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The one with half an ear is just so Fat, And the possible peanut is really small but is growing teeth and nails( I didn't notice any of the signs pointing to a peanut when I just checked there).
> 
> Mr wiggles is eatting loads. And it seems all the fur that is starting to grow is all white, does this mean they will be white all over there body for the rest of there lives?, or will it change when they malt?
Click to expand...

It is possible for the peanut to reach 7 or even 8 weeks old, they do grow and develop like normal baby buns but are just smaller and always die.


----------



## paul2641

*BlueGiants wrote: *


> They may be white or an off-white color, but they may also develop "points" of color (like a darker nose and ears), like your avatar bunny. The points may not come in for a little while.
> 
> Maybe you can hold back Mr. Wiggles while the Dopey eats first. Give him a couple minutes to fill up first, with less competition from Mr Wiggles. Then put Mr Wiggles under there to eat.


I always feed them separtaly and the littlin always goes first. Last night he suckled for 10 whole minutes!


----------



## BlueGiants

*paul2641 wrote: *


> *BlueGiants wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> They may be white or an off-white color, but they may also develop "points" of color (like a darker nose and ears), like your avatar bunny. The points may not come in for a little while.
> 
> Maybe you can hold back Mr. Wiggles while the Dopey eats first. Give him a couple minutes to fill up first, with less competition from Mr Wiggles. Then put Mr Wiggles under there to eat.
> 
> 
> 
> I always feed them separtaly and the littlin always goes first. Last night he suckled for 10 whole minutes!
Click to expand...

Excellent! Lets hope that works!


----------



## paul2641

*BlueGiants wrote: *


> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *BlueGiants wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> They may be white or an off-white color, but they may also develop "points" of color (like a darker nose and ears), like your avatar bunny. The points may not come in for a little while.
> 
> Maybe you can hold back Mr. Wiggles while the Dopey eats first. Give him a couple minutes to fill up first, with less competition from Mr Wiggles. Then put Mr Wiggles under there to eat.
> 
> 
> 
> I always feed them separtaly and the littlin always goes first. Last night he suckled for 10 whole minutes!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Excellent! Lets hope that works!
Click to expand...

Hasn't really fed off momma very well today though.


----------



## paul2641

:nerves1:bunnyangel2::missyouturns out the little one was a peanut. Dopey passed away about 5 minutes ago. :bigtears:I'll admit I shed a tire for the little fellow I really began to warm to them. 

The other one defo isn't a peanut because he is growing, Just hope he survives to become an adult mam said if the last one survives I can keep him, I don't know should I though?:sosad


----------



## Sabine

I am sorry you lost Dopey. He may or may not have been a peanut but hopefully he's crossed the rainbow bridge by now.
Take good care of the other fellow.


----------



## irishbunny

Sorry about the kit, heres a cool video I just came across, might help a bit.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zaHZRoYJMw&NR=1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zaHZRoYJMw&NR=1[/ame]


----------



## Ringer

i hate to be a doubter, but after reading all of this thread I have come to the conclision that's it's false. I don't believe a word of it. I think this person is simply looking for attention.

I know how very very hard it is for anyone to hand feed baby rabbits. I have tried and they died despite my efforts.

The mother first caniibalized them and then magicaly started to nurse? I doubt that too. 

This is a young person looking for attention. That's it. I doubt any of this whole thing is true.

The sister wouldn't allow pictures? Huh? Then the cameras wouldn't work?

I'mjust afraid you all have been duped. Very nice of you to give advice but you were taken advantage of. I really believe this to be true or I wouldn't have spoken up. 

Too bad that this person is so messed up. I have been through mother rabbits giving birth and none of this adds up. Sorry,.


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## TinysMom

Until proven otherwise - we assume on this forum that members are telling the truth and we try to support them the best we can.

Perhaps you will prefer to focus your time and attention elsewhere on the forum Ringer and just not worry about this thread. We're not going to open a debate upon what is or is not truth at this time.

We've had enough dissension on this thread as it is.


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## Ringer

Well if I am wrong, my most sincere apologies and I understand your point but I hate to see people being taken advantage of.

I will, as you suggest, back off. Just thought this was fairly obvious. But better to err on the side of kindness...I see what you mean.


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## paul2641

The camera battery was dead. She didn't start to nurse them herself, We restrain her and put the baby on the tit. I'mdefo getting a photo to prove I'm not making The kits up. Everyone else thanks for the support


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## Pipp

So sorry the baby didn't make it, Paul. You're doing a great job, though.


sas :hug:


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## paul2641

*Pipp wrote: *


> So sorry the baby didn't make it, Paul. You're doing a great job, though.
> 
> 
> sas :hug:


OMG I went into the pet shop just to look around at what they had. And the pet shop assisant asked me how the kits were(I was like how do you know to myself?) Mam had told him about them. And I was in there for an hour explaining what has happened. Thanks Pipp for the confidence boost.


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## jcl_24

I'm sorry to hear about Dopey, Paul. You've been doing a great job of sorting out their feeding and the new hutch arrangements sound great.

This forum is keen on photos you might have gathered 

Jo x


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## irishlops

ringer is nice, i have read some of his post and PM. but i would like to add that the same encounters with paul, he is nice, kind aswell, and you can trust him, he was asking beforer this how to as well, so i think it is true,

ringer, i think it is very nice of you to say sorry, yes, it is a tiny bit unbeliveable, but you have to trust, so i hope i have not made any enimes....:?

hop the little ones are ok.

and ringer is with my comment....:?


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## paul2641

*jcl_24 wrote: *


> I'm sorry to hear about Dopey, Paul. You've been doing a great job of sorting out their feeding and the new hutch arrangements sound great.
> 
> This forum is keen on photos you might have gathered
> 
> Jo x


I Am hoping to get them in the next 2 days( the photo's). Oh and thanks for the support irishlops.


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## irishlops

its ok paul. i know ringer a bit and have chatted to you, you 2 are nice and kind aswell. i hope he sees it this way........
cool, i migght have little bunnies on the 20th of jan!!!! well maybe.


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## paul2641

*irishlops wrote: *


> its ok paul. i know ringer a bit and have chatted to you, you 2 are nice and kind aswell. i hope he sees it this way........
> cool, i migght have little bunnies on the 20th of jan!!!! well maybe.


Why, did you breed your rabbits?


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## paul2641

Ok so some people don't believe I actaully have a baby rabbit well here it is.





















Does everyone believe me now that I really do have a kit?

papa






momma






And all my rabbits are housed separtely.


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## aurora369

Awww, Paul, he is very cute. I love the markings.

He looks like he's developing nicely. Keep up the good work. 

Is he still getting lots of milk from mom?

--Dawn


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## BlueGiants

Very sweet Paul! Thanks for sharing! You are doing a great job with the baby. Raising one is not easy. Keep up the good work.


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## Starlight Rabbitry

The baby looks great. You are doing a good job. From the markings, looks like you have a "broken" or I think that in Ireland you call them "butterfly" markings. 

Sharon


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## paul2641

Thanks everyone for all the support, It's very much appreciated. The little baby is getting loads from momma, It suckled earlier for 12 minutes(should I be taking s/he off after 5 min, or just leave the baby on?) I really am hoping it is a broken, just like the mother! I love broken! I was also hoping for a plain white one with blue eyes(ohh well). Does anyone have any clue what the little patterns on his back will be coloured? It has that thing on its nose that suki has(is that needed to be classed a broken?). When do you think s/he will open eyes? and I can see little white hair sprouting from its body.


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## irishlops

about me breeding them...
i separated them before he got his father insticts, but durring the night the pushed up the boared and..... you can think what greeted me at 7 in the morning..:shock:


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## paul2641

*irishlops wrote: *


> about me breeding them...
> i separated them before he got his father insticts, but durring the night the pushed up the boared and..... you can think what greeted me at 7 in the morning..:shock:


Oh sorry to hear that, Isn't it dangerous for them to breed together because there brother and sister?


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## irishbunny

*paul2641 wrote: *


> *irishlops wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> about me breeding them...
> i separated them before he got his father insticts, but durring the night the pushed up the boared and..... you can think what greeted me at 7 in the morning..:shock:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sorry to hear that, Isn't it dangerous for them to breed together because there brother and sister?
Click to expand...


Yes it is but she wouldn't do anything about it.


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## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *irishlops wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> about me breeding them...
> i separated them before he got his father insticts, but durring the night the pushed up the boared and..... you can think what greeted me at 7 in the morning..:shock:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sorry to hear that, Isn't it dangerous for them to breed together because there brother and sister?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes it is but she wouldn't do anything about it.
Click to expand...

Oh, Well irishbunny all we can do is hope that the momma and the babies don't suffer.


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## irishbunny

By the way, the baby looks good, keep up the good work. Is she drinking off Suki the whole time?


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## paul2641

*irishbunny wrote: *


> By the way, the baby looks good, keep up the good work. Is she drinking off Suki the whole time?


I'm glad you think I'm doing good with the baby. Yup s/he is eatting off suki all the time, But Today I was feeding it off the bottle because there was no one else to help me hold down suki because I don't want suki to be able to attack the baby because we haven't let suki with the baby since she ate the first 2, So we don't know how she is with the baby. Iam hoping that the baby will be broken(white and black).I really hope that it survives.


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## Starlight Rabbitry

*paul2641 wrote: *


> Thanks everyone for all the support, It's very much appreciated. The little baby is getting loads from momma, It suckled earlier for 12 minutes(should I be taking s/he off after 5 min, or just leave the baby on?) I really am hoping it is a broken, just like the mother! I love broken! I was also hoping for a plain white one with blue eyes(ohh well). Does anyone have any clue what the little patterns on his back will be coloured? It has that thing on its nose that suki has(is that needed to be classed a broken?). When do you think s/he will open eyes? and I can see little white hair sprouting from its body.



The baby will probably be a broken tortoise as that is the color of mom and dad. Can't rule out other colors. Its eyes will open on about the 10th day. 

Sharon


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## paul2641

*Starlight Rabbitry wrote: *


> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks everyone for all the support, It's very much appreciated. The little baby is getting loads from momma, It suckled earlier for 12 minutes(should I be taking s/he off after 5 min, or just leave the baby on?) I really am hoping it is a broken, just like the mother! I love broken! I was also hoping for a plain white one with blue eyes(ohh well). Does anyone have any clue what the little patterns on his back will be coloured? It has that thing on its nose that suki has(is that needed to be classed a broken?). When do you think s/he will open eyes? and I can see little white hair sprouting from its body.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The baby will probably be a broken tortoise as that is the color of mom and dad. Can't rule out other colors. Its eyes will open on about the 10th day.
> 
> Sharon
Click to expand...

Oh I was really hoping it would be black. OMG I can't wait for the eyes to open, the slits for the eyes are really destinctive so maybe they will open before day 10?


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## irishlops

*paul2641 wrote: *


> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *irishlops wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> about me breeding them...
> i separated them before he got his father insticts, but durring the night the pushed up the boared and..... you can think what greeted me at 7 in the morning..:shock:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sorry to hear that, Isn't it dangerous for them to breed together because there brother and sister?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes it is but she wouldn't do anything about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, Well irishbunny all we can do is hope that the momma and the babies don't suffer.
Click to expand...

look im sorry, i could not do any thing about it. the first i heard was when my dad came in when i was drawing homework, and said, i hope you know that the rabbits are 2 gether..


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## paul2641

*irishlops wrote: *


> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> *irishlops wrote: *
> 
> 
> 
> about me breeding them...
> i separated them before he got his father insticts, but durring the night the pushed up the boared and..... you can think what greeted me at 7 in the morning..:shock:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh sorry to hear that, Isn't it dangerous for them to breed together because there brother and sister?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes it is but she wouldn't do anything about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, Well irishbunny all we can do is hope that the momma and the babies don't suffer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> look im sorry, i could not do any thing about it. the first i heard was when my dad came in when i was drawing homework, and said, i hope you know that the rabbits are 2 gether..
Click to expand...

Oh I wasn't giving out, I have know right, I haven't been mister perfect with my rabbits.


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## irishlops

its ok, it just sounds llike that.

hope the babies are ok.
(i have went through the possibleitys of her being a sister to the sire.... and her only being 5months. its my firist time keeping rabbits. but thanks for reminding me, ill go and give her a cuddle now...)


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## paul2641

*irishlops wrote: *


> its ok, it just sounds llike that.
> 
> hope the babies are ok.
> (i have went through the possibleitys of her being a sister to the sire.... and her only being 5months. its my firist time keeping rabbits. but thanks for reminding me, ill go and give her a cuddle now...)


Sorry, but as I said in the other thread why don't you ask your father will he get you another hutch because you said he liked petting the rabbits?


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## irishlops

yes i know.
thanks.
plan a, get him to love them more over this week. ill be doing exams so he will have to feed, exercise them.
plan b. ask im.
plan c. grt the facts.
plan d. it hopefully will work.


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## paul2641

*irishlops wrote: *


> yes i know.
> thanks.
> plan a, get him to love them more over this week. ill be doing exams so he will have to feed, exercise them.
> plan b. ask im.
> plan c. grt the facts.
> plan d. it hopefully will work.


That sounds good.


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## paul2641

ink iris:ray::angelandbunny::rainbow:The last baby died, and he was just scurring around in my uncles arm just half an hour ago.

:bunnyangel2:Bye bye Mr wiggles, You will be missed.:bunnyangel2:

Thank everyone who supported me through this tough experiance, You really have helped me.


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## Sabine

Paul, I'm so sorry you lost your last baby, Binky free Mr Wiggles.


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## NorthernAutumn

I'm very sorry to read of Mr. Wiggles' passing, Paul.
I've been keeping up with this thread, and boy, has it been a life experience. I hope you know you've made great strides. It's been a sad series of mistakes and successes... Best wishes for you and your bunnies.


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## paul2641

*NorthernAutumn wrote: *


> I'm very sorry to read of Mr. Wiggles' passing, Paul.
> I've been keeping up with this thread, and boy, has it been a life experience. I hope you know you've made great strides. It's been a sad series of mistakes and successes... Best wishes for you and your bunnies.


Thanks, I can defo say alot of *mistakes on my part.* Thanks though for all the support, I wouldhave never gotten this far without your help.


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## Peek-a-boo

aww im so sorry you lost teh last baby i was looking foward to wathing him grow 

r.i.p little one


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## irishbunny

Aw I'm very sorry you lost the last baby Paul, you did all you could. Hopefully this will mark a new and improved life for your rabbits, give Suki a pat for me, she's been through a very stressful few weeks. Give yourself a pat on the back too, for doing your best for the little baby.


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## paul2641

irishbunny wrote:


> Aw I'm very sorry you lost the last baby Paul, you did all you could. Hopefully this will mark a new and improved life for your rabbits, give Suki a pat for me, she's been through a very stressful few weeks. Give yourself a pat on the back too, for doing your best for the little baby.


Thanks everyone, I have accepted if suki doesn't want to be out in my lap all the time I'll give her the space she needs. And some attension so she doesn't feel left out. I hope everyone sees I'm trying to do best by suki.


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## NorthernAutumn

As an aside, Paul, my cat shares the same name with your bunny. Must be something about the name Suki... She can be quite short-tempered and standoffish... I'm busy breaking down her barriers with lots of affectionate, quick caresses, and lots of treats, so she gets over whatever it is that is holding her back. Its tough to have an animal that isn't all that friendly, but she's making progress, and so will your girl


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## jcl_24

I'm surprised andvery sorry to hear Mr Wiggles passed, Paul. You were doing everything you could to ensure he was nurtured.

RIP Mr Wiggles :rose:

From
Jo xx


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## irishlops

paul. i dont know what to say.
you did your best


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## paul2641

I took Suki out today to be groomed and she only bit me once and it was only a nip not in an aggressive way. So I think improvement is already being made.


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## gingers_giants

Hello Paul.

I think its wonderful that you are spending time with Suki and trying to build a relationship. I feel that if you take her out a little bit everyday and just pet her and comb her and pay attention to her, that you two will bond before you know it.


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## Numbat

Hi, yes that's great. It's sad about your last baby, I just read the whole topic and wasn't expecting that! Good luck with your other bunnies!


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