# Breeders!!! Cage Question?



## mistyjr (Mar 28, 2010)

Hello All,

How many rabbits do you have?

How big are your cages?

Thanks, Misty


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## la~la~land (Mar 28, 2010)

Hey , 

The cages I have myMini Rexesin now (Bleck, I hate them. Soo hard to clean) are 3x3ft. When they're done being built they'll all be moved into 3 high stackers that are 4x3ft.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Mar 28, 2010)

I have ten rabbits (including the 3 pre-juniors) and I have mainly 24x24 cages, but I do have two 30x30 brood doe cages, and two 24x26 (or 26x30? can't remember) as well. 

Cage sizes depend on the breed of rabbit though.  I have Mini Rex.

Emily


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## mistyjr (Mar 28, 2010)

*BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *


> I have ten rabbits (including the 3 pre-juniors) and I have mainly 24x24 cages, but I do have two 30x30 brood doe cages, and two 24x26 (or 26x30? can't remember) as well.
> 
> Cage sizes depend on the breed of rabbit though.  I have Mini Rex.
> 
> Emily


You are are saying that your rabbits are in 30x30 per rabbit?


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Mar 28, 2010)

*mistyjr wrote: *


> *BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I have ten rabbits (including the 3 pre-juniors) and I have mainly 24x24 cages, but I do have two 30x30 brood doe cages, and two 24x26 (or 26x30? can't remember) as well.
> ...



The brood does are in 30x30 cages. One per cage, and they are large enough for a litter of Mini Rex up to 6 weeks. 

Is that what you were asking? 

Emily


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## mistyjr (Mar 28, 2010)

I was just wondering how big each cage was because some people tell me that my cages are to small! But they are big enough to move around in and have a nesting box in there.. And my aunt told me that my cages are just right. Not any difference then the stackable cages that some people use.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Mar 28, 2010)

*mistyjr wrote: *


> I was just wondering how big each cage was because some people tell me that my cages are to small! But they are big enough to move around in and have a nesting box in there.. And my aunt told me that my cages are just right. Not any difference then the stackable cages that some people use.



What size cages do you have?I see you have a Rex - is it in a larger cage than those of the Woolies, Dutch, Mini Rex and Lionheads? I'm just curious, because Rex are a lot bigger than all of those breeds, and should have a larger cage. 

Emily


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## mistyjr (Mar 28, 2010)

Yes. The Standard Rex is in her own Cage. We didnt not put an divider in her cage. We left it bigger because she is a big bunny! I know better then that... The cages are about 3x3 each bunny. Know better then the stackable cages or the cages that they sell in the Farm Store near us!


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Mar 28, 2010)

I have dwarf breeds. I use 24x24's and 24x30's for my pregnant does and does with litters. Cage size depends on the size of the litter, of course.

Bucks and juniors are in 18x24's.


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## mistyjr (Mar 28, 2010)

:biggrin2:inkbouce: Thanks


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Mar 28, 2010)

*mistyjr wrote: *


> Yes. The Standard Rex is in her own Cage. We didnt not put an divider in her cage. We left it bigger because she is a big bunny! I know better then that... The cages are about 3x3 each bunny. Know better then the stackable cages or the cages that they sell in the Farm Store near us!



3x3 definitely isn't too small for the breeds you have.  They are fine. 

Emily


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## mistyjr (Mar 28, 2010)

*BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *


> *mistyjr wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Yes. The Standard Rex is in her own Cage. We didnt not put an divider in her cage. We left it bigger because she is a big bunny! I know better then that... The cages are about 3x3 each bunny. Know better then the stackable cages or the cages that they sell in the Farm Store near us!
> ...


:biggrin2::biggrin2: Thanks, If you seen the cages of your own its different then seeing them in pictures! We are also thinking about doing some kind of run of some sort outdoors in the grass. So they can get more exercise.. I have 2 really over weight Dutch's. They arent showable or Brood's. They just eat and eat. And then after they are done eatting they think they need to eat more! I changed there diets now! They dont get as much as the other rabbits get


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Mar 28, 2010)

*mistyjr wrote: *


> *BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *mistyjr wrote: *
> ...



I bet they would love to get out there and run and run in that grass!! OH, and chomp, chomp, chomp on it! lol. That's the same way my bucks are - always wanting food! My buck Tahj knows how to take his hay rack off the side of the cage when it's empty or he wants more... I watched him doing for the first time yesterday... he makes it look easy, but gosh those things are sometimes hard to put on! lol. He's such a pig, and he was slighly overweight when we got him. Haven't weighed him since, and he hasn't been to a show yet. I'm only hoping that he has since slimmed down. 

Emily


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## mistyjr (Mar 28, 2010)

Yeah! I just have to get it dog proof! So the dogs dont get in there and think that they are food!


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## irishbunny (Mar 28, 2010)

Bunnies ADORE having some time outside, least all mine do anyway, they would love to have some outdoor runs to binky around in


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## mistyjr (Mar 28, 2010)

Yeah! I bring them indoors to run around at the moment


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## bunnybunbunb (Mar 29, 2010)

I have many diffrent sizes since I have been collecting cages over the years but I love my 3 x 2 solid bottom hutches best. Them and my 2 x 2 1/2 all wire cages but I just like them because they are good brood cages and I can easily bring them inside. I personally hate wire bottoms but I live with them. I do not have enough money to splurge on a butt load of solid bottom hutches of decent size.


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## mistyjr (Mar 29, 2010)

I love the wire cages because they are so much easy to clean!


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## bunnybunbunb (Mar 29, 2010)

That is why most people like them, but I just think they are the lazy breeder's paradise. Unless you have a wooled breed that is actually used for it's wool or showed I think the wire cages is useless. But I am not going to fight, to each their own.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Mar 30, 2010)

*bunnybunbunb wrote: *


> That is why most people like them, but I just think they are the lazy breeder's paradise. Unless you have a wooled breed that is actually used for it's wool or showed I think the wire cages is useless. But I am not going to fight, to each their own.



I see it like this: wire cages provide less cleaning time, which in turn, provides more time for handling, evaluating, grooming, and all that other good stuff. If you spent forever cleaning cages, this time would probably be limited quite a bit, whereas with wire cages, you can clean cages fairly quickly, and then have all that extra time to play with the bunnies.

Emily


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## mistyjr (Mar 30, 2010)

Just like you try to clean 15+ cages if they werent wire cages! I think you need to think before you say something.


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## BlueGiants (Mar 30, 2010)

*bunnybunbunb wrote: *


> That is why most people like them, but I just think they are the lazy breeder's paradise. Unless you have a wooled breed that is actually used for it's wool or showed I think the wire cages is useless. But I am not going to fight, to each their own.



I believe wire floored cages help keep the rabbits healthier. Unless you are cleaning out the cages several times a day, the droppings and urine will build up. Any exposure to bacteria or parasites will be compounded by what sits in the cage. Coccidiosis re-infection cycle is 2-3 days... Pin worms and tape worms can become a re-infecting problem. E. Cuniculi is shed in urine... 

Wire floors do not indicate "lazy" husbandry, more a concern for cleanliness and the health of the rabbit.


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## countrybuns (Mar 30, 2010)

Are they 3x3 each or 3x3 devided into two? Because that would mean they were each only getting 18 inches x 36 inches. It is always hard to tell in pics what the true size of something is but they are your heard and if you think they are happy don't worry about what other people think.


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## bunnybunbunb (Mar 30, 2010)

"I think you need to think before you say something."

I have and there is no need to be rude. I have three solid bottom hutch cages, five wire bottomed hutch cages, twelve or so all wire cages and as many inside NIC cages I want. I have delt with many types of rabbit housing and -I- like solid bottom hutches for outside.

I would just rather take the few minutes it takes to clean the wood than pick fur off wire, or deal with a crusty pan. The money I spend on wood chips is not wasted either, everything goes in compost.

Most rabbits pick one spot to potty, I put linolium in that spot and add shavings and all is good. The rabbits seem to perfer the solid floor hutches and so do I. I have one girl who goes all sour and depressed if I move her from a solid floored hutch.

No worries about ripped nails, broken teeth on wire, food falling to waste, or babies getting on the wire. I have let does raise their babies in them without a nest box and it seemed to work amazingly.

I just perfer solid floored hutches. You all like all wire, I like solid floor. Each has their ups and downs and we all have our own opinions about them. It is nothing to fight about.


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## jcottonl02 (Mar 30, 2010)

Lol this could be a reaally stupid question haha but with wire cages wouldn't you have just as much cleaning to do, because all the poop and urine would just end up all over the floor? Or a bucket or whatever, that you'd have to clean anyway?

Sorry if its a hilariously stupid question but I've just been thinking about it hahaha lol


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## irishbunny (Mar 30, 2010)

Different breeders use wire floors and solid floors for different reasons, in the UK and Ireland, no breeders use wire floors  It is all down to what is done in your area/country and what you prefer.

I like both, but prefer solid floors just because they are more comfortable for rabbits, especially in the cold weather, but wire floors are good since you don't have too spend much time cleaning! I only have 5 rabbits, and still have to spend about an hour and a half a week cleaning cages. So I can only imagine how long it would take for a large rabbitry!


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## bunnybunbunb (Mar 30, 2010)

Well, if you want them to be as clean as Blue Giants is talking about then the wire would need to be scrubbed with a soft brissel brush with either bleach water or vinagar water. Their poop and pee is still touching the wire and sitting on it. If they get diahrrea it gets so nasty. If the wire is not scrubbed often it gets a white crust, same with the pans, from the pee. It is easier to see problems with their pee and poop with the pans but a litter box is easier to clean.

Most breeders using the wire cages with drop pans clean them, what, once a week? As far as I know that usually just intails the dumping of the pans. I am sure many people spray the pans off, as well. As far as if they clean the actual area where the rabbit lives I suppose that is much more varied per breeder. I personally do not know any breeder that does that though.

I clean the solid bottom hutches every other day or so. All the waste comes out and the linolium is washed. The wood is washed as needed but they usually only potty in one area which is where I put the linolium.

I say the hutches is more sanitary just because it is cleaned more often, but we would need lab testing to have real proof which is more clean. Anyone willing to pay for that? xD


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## jcottonl02 (Mar 30, 2010)

I just can't see how wires all day every day can be comfortable...obviously they are fine because otherwise so many people wouldn't be using them, but I just can't get my head around it.


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## Erins Rabbits (Mar 30, 2010)

I have 11 rabbits right now, not counting babies. I have a 3 hole stacker of 36 x 24s for my two champagnes and a hole on the bottom for broody does or growing out litters. I also have a six hole with 18 x 24 compartments for Senior bucks and non-bred does, but only if they're on the small side. I wouldn't put anything over fourlbs in these. I also have two 24 x 24 stand alones and 2 special brood cages that are 42 x 24. I'll also be putting my spots in these cages only once I find myself a doe. 

They're all wire floored. Each and every one.


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## mistyjr (Mar 30, 2010)

My cages dont have a pan tray. A solid cage you have to clean every other day. Wire cages are so easier then a soild cage. I have one in the house. I hated it!


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Mar 30, 2010)

*jcottonl02 wrote: *


> I just can't see how wires all day every day can be comfortable...obviously they are fine because otherwise so many people wouldn't be using them, but I just can't get my head around it.


Remember that as humans, all we're walking on is skin. It would get painful after awhile for us. But well-bred rabbits have a thick felted pad of fur on their hocks. So wire probably feels as well as solid wood does to the bunnies.


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## jcottonl02 (Mar 30, 2010)

*OakRidgeRabbits wrote: *


> *jcottonl02 wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I just can't see how wires all day every day can be comfortable...obviously they are fine because otherwise so many people wouldn't be using them, but I just can't get my head around it.
> ...



Yes I think I'm thinking of it in a very human point of view....
I guess they would have to have protection from stones and sharp objects on the ground, so that would in turn protect their tootsies from wires too.

Thanks! That makes senseinkelepht:


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## mistyjr (Mar 30, 2010)

Yeah! They will be fine! If they didnt make the wire cages for the bunnies they wouldnt have done so!


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## mistyjr (Mar 30, 2010)

Some people think my cages are bad... Look at these how small cages are how bunnies they have in them!
http://jxn.craigslist.org/grd/1667398536.html


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## jcottonl02 (Mar 30, 2010)

Jesus........that is just not right!!!!! 

Also it makes unknowledgabe people think that that kind of cage is okay for rabbits!!!! Like when people trust stores, because they are stocking certain cages, they 'must' be okay for bunnies. 

I hope one day this kind of stuff will change. Soon!!!!!


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## mistyjr (Mar 30, 2010)

Yeah! That is pretty bad cages! And even have that many buns in one cage!


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## jcottonl02 (Mar 30, 2010)

And your cages are fine Misty. The photos make them look smaller (why cant that be the case for my figure?? LOL! Instead of making me looking bigger lol), but u said they were about 3ftx3ft for one bunny? That's obviously not mansion size, but perfectly acceptable as you give them exercise time in the house too.


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## mistyjr (Mar 30, 2010)

yes! I had my aunt that have 100+ rabbits and is an breeder/show them all. She said that the cages that I have are fine!


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## todd131 (Mar 30, 2010)

hi! where do you purchase the wire for the floors?


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## mistyjr (Mar 30, 2010)

I got mine from Home Depot for a huge roll for $50.00 that only did 3 cages


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## todd131 (Mar 30, 2010)

*mistyjr wrote: *


> I got mine from Home Depot for a huge roll for $50.00 that only did 3 cages


thanks! it is the 1x1in square? not chicken wire right? (probably a dumb question but i dont want to use chicken wire).


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## mistyjr (Mar 30, 2010)

It's not chicken wire. The holes are alot smaller in size.
The cages are about 4x4 each...Pictures Below of the cages.


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## mistyjr (Mar 30, 2010)

But 1-2 cages we used part chicken wire because we ran out of the good wire!


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## aurora369 (Mar 30, 2010)

I have seen welded wire mesh at home improvement stores as well. There is a couple of different ones to choose from, so perhaps your local hardware store will have a bit of a selection as well.

I agree that chicken wire is not a good choice as it is too weak. Rabbits can and will chew through it!

-Dawn


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## mistyjr (Mar 30, 2010)

But You might wanna look at: www.klubertanz.com


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## bunnybunbunb (Mar 30, 2010)

How wide is that cage? It looks way to narrow :/ Woolies are not big so it can not be very wide.


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## mistyjr (Mar 30, 2010)

They are about 2-2 1/2 x 2


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## mistyjr (Mar 30, 2010)

about 24 inches x 24 inches +


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## mistyjr (Mar 30, 2010)

About the same size as an E-Series Economy Hutches


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## bunnybunbunb (Mar 30, 2010)

It sure does not look 2 foot wide. My 7 lb mix boy Burke could fit four times side by side in a 2 foot wide cage and that woolie looks like it will barely fit twice.


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## todd131 (Mar 30, 2010)

thanks Dawn and Misty! i looked on the HD website and could not find that type of wire. i will try a local hardware store tomorrow. 

thanks for the photo Misty, that is exactly what i am looking for. is that 1in or .5in? that is a really cute bunny what breed is it? 

i plan on making my hutches 2 floors 36x24 and i plan on building 1 for each adult. i was going to put the wire mesh on the bottom floor and hopefully teach the rabbit to go 'release' on the bottom floor. any suggestions or criticisms of this plan? is it a bad idea to have an area where the bunnies can congregate out of their hutches or would it be smarter/more practicle to simply have a seperate pen to let them hop around in daily and interact with me and each other. as i was writing i may have answered my own question as i believe i will have less control over when they breed if they are in a commmunity habitat. hmmmm.

i truly do appreciate all of the help. 

todd


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## mistyjr (Mar 30, 2010)

oh well! She's fine!


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## mistyjr (Mar 30, 2010)

*todd131 wrote: *


> thanks Dawn and Misty! i looked on the HD website and could not find that type of wire. i will try a local hardware store tomorrow.
> 
> thanks for the photo Misty, that is exactly what i am looking for. is that 1in or .5in? that is a really cute bunny what breed is it?
> 
> ...


I dont know what size the wire is.. She is an REW Jersey Wooly... Just look at your local stores and even if you have a farm store too would be good


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## todd131 (Mar 30, 2010)

oh wow Misty, thanks! i must have been typing my long winded reply as you posted that link! at first glance, it looks to be exactly what i am looking :dancingorig:


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## mistyjr (Mar 30, 2010)

you talking about the website that i have posted??


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## todd131 (Mar 30, 2010)

*mistyjr wrote: *


> you talking about the website that i have posted??



yep!


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## mistyjr (Mar 30, 2010)

Yeah! That is a good website! I have the catalog that I got from the Rabbit Show.. It haves everything that you need. From cages to medicine ect.


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## Mrs. PBJ (Mar 31, 2010)

I would like to remind all posters to stay on subject. The answers should be based on the original question.

I will also remind posters that breeding standards are different from normal pet standards. 

Good luck with your cages Misty. 

Thank you
Kat


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## mistyjr (Mar 31, 2010)

Thanks Kat! 

I had another breeders say that my cages are good and some seen them up close in person and said they are fine!


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## jcottonl02 (Mar 31, 2010)

Just out of curiosity, why are breeding standards different to pet standards? Is it because breeding cages are temporary? Kinda thing?


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## Pipp (Mar 31, 2010)

A lot of it is sheer volume and logistics. Workload and health issues. Especially with unspayed/unneutered rabbits, its going to be messy, breeders with multiple rabbits will have a hard time keeping the floors clean. Its healthier for the rabbits to have the feces and urine fall through the wire, and more practical for the breeder. 

There's also the matter of space and ventilation. Breeders will traditionally have more cages in a smaller area.


sas :bunnydance:


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## BlueGiants (Mar 31, 2010)

There are no physical standards for Pet rabbits. They are "judged" based on personality and companionship. Show rabbits are judged on physical attributes assigned to a particular breed.


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## jcottonl02 (Mar 31, 2010)

*BlueGiants wrote: *


> There are no physical standards for Pet rabbits. They are "judged" based on personality and companionship. Show rabbits are judged on physical attributes assigned to a particular breed.


Yes, I know that, but I was just wondering why there are two standards of what are deemed 'good enough' care and housing standards between pet rabbits and breeder's rabbits. As if whether they are called 'pets' or 'breeding' makes a difference on how big the housing matters to their wellbeing?
I thought the standard recommended housing size/ exercise time/diet etc. etc. was just....standard for the rabbit's wellbeing itself, and was actually worked out for the rabbit's health etc. etc.?

Forgive my ignorance on the subject.


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## Mrs. PBJ (Mar 31, 2010)

> A lot of it is sheer volume and logistics. Workload and health issues. Especially with unspayed/unneutered rabbits, its going to be messy, breeders with multiple rabbits will have a hard time keeping the floors clean. Its healthier for the rabbits to have the feces and urine fall through the wire, and more practical for the breeder.
> 
> There's also the matter of space and ventilation. Breeders will traditionally have more cages in a smaller area.
> 
> ...










> Yes, I know that, but I was just wondering why there are two standards of what are deemed 'good enough' care and housing standards between pet rabbits and breeder's rabbits. As if whether they are called 'pets' or 'breeding' makes a difference on how big the housing matters to their wellbeing?
> I thought the standard recommended housing size/ exercise time/diet etc. etc. was just....standard for the rabbit's wellbeing itself, and was actually worked out for the rabbit's health etc. etc.?
> 
> Forgive my ignorance on the subject.



Pipp Answered this. It mainly because as a pet owner would maybe have 1 to 5 a breeder could have upwards of 20 plus. Breeders give as much room as possible. Buts it more of a room thing then anything else. 

As a breeder would have 20 plus if they spend less time cleaning they can spend more time with the bunnies.


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## todd131 (Mar 31, 2010)

this is a very interesting discussion to me. yesterday misty sent me a link to a web site that has small animal supplies. take a look at these slotted mats, they seem pretty cheap and may keep the rabbits feet in better condition. scroll down, they are the 'slotted ez floor mats'

edit: forgot link, http://www.klubertanz.com/Catalog.htm

edit II: dangit i cant link directly to the page. if you go to cage parts and accessories on the left then to floor mats, slotted plastic, then scroll down you will find what i am writing about. :biggrin2:


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## mistyjr (Mar 31, 2010)

Thanks Todd! Yes that is a good website to get your supplies for the bunnies.


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## mistyjr (Mar 31, 2010)

Thanks Guys!


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Mar 31, 2010)

*jcottonl02 wrote: *


> Lol this could be a reaally stupid question haha but with wire cages wouldn't you have just as much cleaning to do, because all the poop and urine would just end up all over the floor? Or a bucket or whatever, that you'd have to clean anyway?
> 
> Sorry if its a hilariously stupid question but I've just been thinking about it hahaha lol



There are trays under the cages that cage the defecation and urine, so it doesn't go all over the floor (that would be very unsanitary and messy!). So you just have to dump the pan, squirt it with a hose if you need to, fill back up with shavings and then plop it back under the cage. 

It used to take me about 1 1/2 hours to clean the cages in my rabbitry, but now with all wire, it takes about 30 minutes, if I keep focused and don't get distracted.  

Emily


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## bunnybunbunb (Mar 31, 2010)

"So you just have to dump the pan, squirt it with a hose if you need to, fill back up with shavings and then plop it back under the cage."

So you do not clean the wire that the rabbits sit on? The poop and pee touch it as it goes into the pan so they could get disease from it, too.

I wish I had a power wash, Sarah would power wash all her cages once every season. That sounds like an amazing ideal!


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Mar 31, 2010)

*bunnybunbunb wrote: *


> "So you just have to dump the pan, squirt it with a hose if you need to, fill back up with shavings and then plop it back under the cage."
> 
> So you do not clean the wire that the rabbits sit on? The poop and pee touch it as it goes into the pan so they could get disease from it, too.
> 
> I wish I had a power wash, Sarah would power wash all her cages once every season. That sounds like an amazing ideal!



I do clean the wire, yes.  I don't wash it, but I take a bristle brush and get the pooh and hay out of the wire. I do bleach the cages every spring/summer, but I just put these cages in a few months ago, and I bleached them then... they will be getting rebleached in about a month or so - when I have a long weekend to do rabbitry spring cleaning. 

I wish I had a powerwasher too! hah, that would be sooo helpful. I'm going to try the vinegar solution to help get the calcium build up off the pans though - couldn't get that off with just the hose or bleach solution the first time, so hopefully that will work and make the pans cleaner and nicer looking. That will probably also help with getting the calcium build up out of my litter boxes, too. Didn't think of that before!

Emily


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## elrohwen (Mar 31, 2010)

Just don't mix the bleach and the vinegar together ;-)

It takes me an hour to clean 13 cages at the rescue (dog crates with newspaper down and a litter box). I totally understand the need to have wire floors in a rabbitry - you'd never have time to do anything else otherwise!


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## mistyjr (Mar 31, 2010)

Hay that's an good ideal for the power washer! I think we have one


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## mistyjr (Mar 31, 2010)

*elrohwen wrote: *


> Just don't mix the bleach and the vinegar together ;-)
> 
> It takes me an hour to clean 13 cages at the rescue (dog crates with newspaper down and a litter box). I totally understand the need to have wire floors in a rabbitry - you'd never have time to do anything else otherwise!


Yes! It would take your hrs and hrs if they were solid cages. I couldnt do it because I dont have the time to spend that much on cages, I have real kids to take care plus other animals. I have have a 2 hrs in the morning to do chorces before hubby goes to work.. I dont like taking baby out there with me.


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## bunnybunbunb (Mar 31, 2010)

I use wood nest boxes so I do not have to worry about the calcium. I use many boxes without bottoms or wire bottoms as well as carboard boxes if I need 

I use vinagar/water to clean in the house, it and the green products. It works well in the house for cleaning off grim and stuff. I used it to clean off the calcium off the bathroom floor, too, where Cameron was running lose in there for a while.


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## mistyjr (Mar 31, 2010)

Vinagar/Water is also awesome to use on puppies/dogs when they pee on the floor!


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## bunnybunbunb (Mar 31, 2010)

If only they peed on the solid floor insted of the carpet! I want one of them little Green Machines but insted I have this HUGE carpet cleaner that is back breaking to use.


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## mistyjr (Mar 31, 2010)

We have an green machine too! We want the upgrade to the newer one that is also used for pets! Green Machine does better then our normal carpet shampooer!


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Mar 31, 2010)

*bunnybunbunb wrote: *


> I use wood nest boxes so I do not have to worry about the calcium. I use many boxes without bottoms or wire bottoms as well as carboard boxes if I need
> 
> I use vinagar/water to clean in the house, it and the green products. It works well in the house for cleaning off grim and stuff. I used it to clean off the calcium off the bathroom floor, too, where Cameron was running lose in there for a while.



Wood nestboxes are lovely. lol, I use wood too.  Although there are some pee stains, it's not bad. Do you bleach your wooden boxes? I was reading a book that said to do that, and I wasn't sure if the bleach solution would soak into the wood and cause rotting or not? Don't want to try it until I'm sure it's fine.  If so, I'm sure bleach could get the pee stains off the wood easily, especially since they're small - I have holes drilled in the bottom for sanitation.

Emily


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## jcottonl02 (Mar 31, 2010)

*Mrs. PBJ wrote: *


> > A lot of it is sheer volume and logistics. Workload and health issues. Especially with unspayed/unneutered rabbits, its going to be messy, breeders with multiple rabbits will have a hard time keeping the floors clean. Its healthier for the rabbits to have the feces and urine fall through the wire, and more practical for the breeder.
> >
> > There's also the matter of space and ventilation. Breeders will traditionally have more cages in a smaller area.
> >
> ...



I did read Pipp's post, and understand what she said.

However these aren't really answering my question. Surely a standard is a standard and shouldn't be changed according to the occupation.
But it really doesn't matter lol. I clearly can't put my point across very well, and I'm sorta hijacking the thread 

So thanks for trying to explain, guys, but no worries.


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## jcottonl02 (Mar 31, 2010)

*BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *


> *jcottonl02 wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Lol this could be a reaally stupid question haha but with wire cages wouldn't you have just as much cleaning to do, because all the poop and urine would just end up all over the floor? Or a bucket or whatever, that you'd have to clean anyway?
> ...


Lol ah i see!!! You should have seen the image floating round in my head when I asked the question LOL! :biggrin2:


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## mistyjr (Mar 31, 2010)

haha! No Problem Jun! You have hijack it all you want


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## mistyjr (Mar 31, 2010)

oops, i meant Jen


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## jcottonl02 (Mar 31, 2010)

Lol but Jun is actually a lovely name!! It was my character when I played Tekken!!! Hehe.

I'm not all that savvy when it comes to breeders etc. and rabbit showing, so you'll have to forgive me if I ask a stupid question . It's something I'd like to learn more about, though, because it's a whole different side to rabbit ownership.


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## mistyjr (Mar 31, 2010)

Yes! It doesnt hurt to ask questions., I'm just new to this since December 2009! People always ask! inkbouce::biggrin2:inkbouce:


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Mar 31, 2010)

I like answering questions. lol. 

Emily


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## jcottonl02 (Mar 31, 2010)

*BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *


> I like answering questions. lol.
> 
> Emily



Lol when I know what I'm talking about, so do I! Rabbit showing etc. doesn't really come highly in my knowledge base though!


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## bunnybunbunb (Mar 31, 2010)

*BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *


> *bunnybunbunb wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I use wood nest boxes so I do not have to worry about the calcium. I use many boxes without bottoms or wire bottoms as well as carboard boxes if I need
> ...



I have not in a while but it was what I was advised to do by my old mentor. He said to bleach the cages once a month, always before moving a new rabbit into a cage a diffrent rabbit was in, and the nest boxes between each litter. I remember everything he ever told me and since I have strayed away from it all I have ill luck. I will be going back to what he told me, for the most part. He had amazing luck and great breeding practises that worked for 20 years. He stopped breedingthree years ago but I see him from time to time. I miss going anddrooling over all his lovely rabbits. If I could I would get his line back in mine but I do not know anyone with them.

I saw him two weeks ago, looked the same as ever. "Still no rabbits?" "Nope. Well, dad has some San Juans at the house but that is it." "I bet your garden is not near as good as it use to be, huh?" "No! *laughs*" 

He uses, or did use, solid bottom hutches for the San Juans. For his rabbits he went from solid floors, to hanging cages and then there was a mud slid and he lost lots of cages. He had 20pregnant does at the time that he had to move to his house, he was keeping most of his rabbits at his father's farm, and he had two weeks to build housing. He made an AMAZING hutch I would LOVE to have. It was/is a standing hutch, 6 diffrent parts, 40 cages if I remember right. I believe they where/are 2 x 2.

I still remember my last trip to his house when he was selling out. *sigh*


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## la~la~land (Apr 17, 2010)

My dad and I framed up my new hutch today :thumbup

Its got 3stories, each is4 ft wide and 3 ft deep. I'll make a thread and post pics when I find my camera cord. Theres going to be a slide in divider in each. When a doe has kits I'll take it out so plenty of room for mamma and babes :biggrin:

Its solid floored but all my buns use litter boxes. I've yet to meet a rabbit that I can't get to use one to atleast pee in. They get dumped every other day and bleached monthly. I'm using those stick-on tiles on the floor so accidents can be whiped up :biggrin:

IMO wire floors are fine for most breeds but since the fur on mini rexes feet is so thin they're prone to sore hocks when on wire I prefer solid.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Apr 17, 2010)

*la~la~land wrote: *


> IMO wire floors are fine for most breeds but since the fur on mini rexes feet is so thin they're prone to sore hocks when on wire I prefer solid.



I have my MR's on wire floors and have no problems with them having sore hocks at all. As long as you have well-furred MR's, wire floors should be fine, and even if they're not well-furred, a place for the rabbit get off the wire is suitable.  

I love having the wire cages with REW's. It helps to keep their feet a lot cleaner, unless they have litter boxes and sit in them, lol. 

Emily


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## la~la~land (Apr 17, 2010)

*BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *


> I have my MR's on wire floors and have no problems with them having sore hocks at all. As long as you have well-furred MR's, wire floors should be fine, and even if they're not well-furred, a place for the rabbit get off the wire is suitable.
> 
> I love having the wire cages with REW's. It helps to keep their feet a lot cleaner, unless they have litter boxes and sit in them, lol.
> 
> Emily




I've known lots of people who keep minis on wire just fine

I've just had bad luck with it  Even with resting boards. Whatever worksfor the individual :thumbup


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## whaleyk98 (Apr 17, 2010)

Lazy breeders paradise????


Thats a little insulting dont you think?

I feel that wire cages make for a cleaner environment for the buns....NOT because Im a lazy breeder. Sheesh.


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## jcottonl02 (Apr 17, 2010)

*whaleyk98 wrote: *


> Lazy breeders paradise????
> 
> 
> Thats a little insulting dont you think?
> ...


I can't find this anywhere in the post? Sorry lol :?

Anyway, you shouldn't take offence to it- I'm sure there was nothing personal. If you know you aren't lazy then there's no need to feel personally attacked.

It may generally be easier to clean, wire pens, but my buns obviously don't live on wire, but I am certain their environment is just as clean as any wire pen, because I spend a lot of my time cleaning and disinfecting them. And my buns are litter trained, so there are no poops/urine anywhere apart from the litter trays, which are cleaned daily 

I still can't get my head about leaving my buns on wire. It must be absolutely fine, because so many people do it and have no problems etc., but it just reminds me of chickens in chicken farms in metal wire cages lol :cry2.
I understand that breeders don't necessarily have them as 'pets', and the cages are supposed to be temporary, but I still can't get my head around breeders standards meaning buns can spend vast periods of time in a 1ft x 2ft all wire cage, and no socialising time (really...if the breeder has to share out time with 10 buns a day).

I am by no means attacking ANYBODY at all- this are just my personal wonderings, and obviously a reason why I am not on the Rabbitry much at all. Please nobody feel offended, or personally attacked, because it gets a bit tiring, when someone is just expressing an opinion.

I seem to be the only one with this opinion though, so that says something about how right I am lol!:thumbup


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## whaleyk98 (Apr 17, 2010)

Ok, your forgiven. I was just a little taken back thats all. No harm done. Everyone has their own opinions and preferences. :biggrin:


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## mistyjr (Apr 18, 2010)

lol.. its okay


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## jcottonl02 (Apr 18, 2010)

*whaleyk98 wrote: *


> Ok, your forgiven. I was just a little taken back thats all. No harm done. Everyone has their own opinions and preferences. :biggrin:





Btw I didn't say the lazy breeder thing, just to clarify  I still can't find it anywhere lol! hehe. What page is it on lol cos I actually can't see it!

Yeah people are entitled 2 to their own opinions but sometimes if they aren't particularly constructive to the conversation, and just antagonistic (which I think that previous comment about the lazy breeders was bordering on), then we could do without them .


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## countrybuns (Apr 18, 2010)

I believe the person who made the post was samantha on the first page. She said in her first post that she uses wire bottom cages but does not like them. She considers them the lazy breeders paradise but still uses them because she can't afford all solid bottomed cages.


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## jcottonl02 (Apr 18, 2010)

*countrybuns wrote: *


> I believe the person who made the post was samantha on the first page. She said in her first post that she uses wire bottom cages but does not like them. She considers them the lazy breeders paradise but still uses them because she can't afford all solid bottomed cages.


Lol ah thank you countrybuns! The first page was the only page I didn't scan for minutes and minutes lol!

I'm not sure samantha would have meant it in a way to offend others- a comment like that is likely to inspire a lot of slightly offended and peeved replies, so I am sure it was just said wrong. It was probably meant as a humorous remark 

Are solid-bottomed cages that much more expensive? :?


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## countrybuns (Apr 18, 2010)

When you are buying breeder cages or constructing them then yes, it isn't a big difference for a couple pets but it can be when you have many rabbits and no Samantha was not trying to be offensive. She uses them so she was basically poking fun at herself with that comment. IMO anyways


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## TinysMom (Apr 18, 2010)

*jcottonl02 wrote: *


> *whaleyk98 wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Lazy breeders paradise????
> ...



I don't know anyone personally who has their buns in a 1 ft X 2 ft cage. My smallest cages (minimum recommended size by ARBA) are 18" X 24". My rabbits can binky in them and will do circles sometimes.

One thing that surprised me as a new breeder was that not all rabbits seem to like "out" time. I have several that when taken out of their cage - want to sit in one place and just wait to get put back. (Once put in their cage they'll play again with their toys and they'll run and binky). Others of course- LOVE their out time and run and play.

Many many pet homes use wire cages also. 

My adult flemish giants are in dog crates - with solid floors and litter pans. They don't get out every day - BUT they do get out fairly regularly (they always seem to know when it is their turn and are waiting for me that morning to let them out).

When they do get out - they get several hours of playtime - sometimes 6-8 or even 10 or 12 hours (if I forget to put them back and rotate them).

I hope that helps. One thing to remember is that while not all pet owners are alike - neither are all breeders. I find that an encouraging fact.


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## mistyjr (Apr 18, 2010)

My rabbits all can move freely and around in circles if they want too. The black cage that I have bought at the farm store is smaller then the cages that I have built. But they have plenty room to hop around. Plus they have an 21 foot run too! 

Yes, I have to agree with the breeders are different... They are all feed/ water daily. And they are all good token care of.


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## whaleyk98 (Apr 18, 2010)

Oopsy, my bad. Didnt look at the name. I appologize Jen. since you reponded I just thought it was you. :blushan:


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## mistyjr (Apr 18, 2010)

Yeah! Its on the 1st page.. I was hurt by that the first time too! But we talked about it. And I forgave her about it...


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## jcottonl02 (Apr 18, 2010)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> *jcottonl02 wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *whaleyk98 wrote: *
> ...



Actually that does help a little bit  Although 18inches x 24inches is 1.5feet x2ft ( I said 1ft x 2ft), so that does seem quite small? :? But I guess if they are only your smallest for your smallest buns then that's okay- I was imagining a...rex or something in a cage that small.


Oopsy, my bad. Didnt look at the name. I appologize Jen. since you reponded I just thought it was you. :blushan:

Hehe that's okay- I thought that was what happened :biggrin:. I think it's easy to say things/take things in the wrong way when they are typed unless u add a load of smileys lol!


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## mistyjr (Apr 18, 2010)

My biggest cage is 4 x 4 and that is for the REX.


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## mistyjr (Apr 18, 2010)

But when you have a shed that is 21 feet.. It is hard to put 12 cages in the shed.


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## jcottonl02 (Apr 18, 2010)

*mistyjr wrote: *


> But when you have a shed that is 21 feet.. It is hard to put 12 cages in the shed.



Then don't be a breeder of 12 rabbits... or at all, if you don't have the space. Note- the 'you' is implied to any breeder, not specifically.


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## mistyjr (Apr 18, 2010)

oh, I would say... I know I have enough room and my cages are fine.. Just saying, that every breeder is different and how there cages are set up.


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