# Should the rabbitry become a private forum? (All May Vote)



## TinysMom (Jul 28, 2011)

With all that happened in the thread about culling - it has caused some to reconsider having the rabbitry area as a private forum. 

Before I give my input on the final decision - I'd like to hear from our members and I'm hoping that you'll not only vote but share WHY you feel a certain way to help me understand what our membership wants.

I will probably leave this poll open till Sunday since we may have some folks who only get on during the weekends.

My own personal bias right now is that I'm tempted to make it a private forum because I think it would make my moderating job much easier. Yet - I know that there are some non-breeders out there who enjoy reading the forum and I want to consider their feelings.

So please - vote - and then if you want - share your thoughts.


P.S. Even if we went private - I'm not sure how we'd handle meat breeding, etc.


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## Nancy McClelland (Jul 28, 2011)

My hope is that all here are mature enough to discuss any topic from rescue to raising rabbits for meat. If they aren't mature enough not to engage in personal attacks because they don't like a topic or disagree with someones' opinion they my vote is to ban them. I've always believed in having all forums open for discussion. Also believe that what George Carlin once said is so true, "God must love stupid people because he made so darn many!" The reason I included that quote is because twice here someone with a limited command of the English language not only totally missed what I said, but they directed some pretty snarky comments at me too. I was very civil but I did tell them that they either need to read and understand what is said here without getting personal or that they were too dumb to be on here without a wrangler to keep them from placing their foot to deep into their own digestive tract. Also, I ratted them out to the admin her who do an exemplary job--this is one of the finest on the net.


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## TinysMom (Jul 28, 2011)

Thanks for sharing Larry. Part of me wants to keep it public - but honestly - its the non-breeders who make my job hard for me in here (or the breeders who won't stop discussing something when I ask that the topic be changed).

So I have mixed feelings about it.

I'm hoping lots of folks will chime in with their thoughts
on this and why they'd like it public or private.


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## FelipesMommy (Jul 28, 2011)

I am not a breeder but I would like to see it remain open. I think the breeders know SO much about rabbits and I love learning about different breeds and colors. I generally trust them to know their stuff since they put so much effort, time, money etc. into what they are doing.


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## gmas rabbit (Jul 28, 2011)

I think that it should remain open to everyone that wants to be part of it. Part of the problem with having a rabbit as a pet is that there is very limited imformation out there for pet owners. If you close the forum to us non breeders, I personally think that it will do more harm than good. Lots of very deperate pet owners and owners that are new to rabbits depend on this site. It is the breeders that help with information gathered through years of breeding a lot of rabbits that help out those that only have one or two.


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## Happi Bun (Jul 28, 2011)

I personally feel it should be made private. 

It has been a source of constant problems in the four years I have been a member of this forum.

:twocents


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## gmas rabbit (Jul 28, 2011)

If there is a subject posted that someone takes offense too, they should not bother opening the site. Would be a shame to have to put restrictions on because someone is "too stupid" (sorry if someone takes offense to that statement) to stay away from something that is just going to upset them. I have a problem with being able to go to the vet's and run into some poor pet owner that just had to have their pet put down. I make the choice of sitting with them and sharing their grief or checking ahead of time for the possibilty that this might be an event that for that day I cannot handle. Life is about choices, chose wisely.


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## rpuckett (Jul 28, 2011)

I personally thoroughly enjoy reading the rabbitry forum, and probably consider it my favorite to read through. I love seeing the new litters, learning about the differences in genetics that create the colors and types of rabbits, and I find reading about different issues and topics that rabbit breeders deal with, whether it is how to decide what to breed, how many holes to have in their program for certain breeds or colors, or just the day to day goings around, incredibly interesting and enlightening.

I personally would feel like I had lost something if I lost the ability to read the rabbitry forum.

Perhaps there could be a halfway ground, something to make it easier for Peg to moderate, perhaps to make it private, but be able to opt in or apply for the ability to join it? I suppose it might be a bit frustrating to set up a list or set the forum up to only allow certain people in, but I imagine it couldn't be that far off from creating a moderator only part of the forum. 

Then, the opt in or ability for you to read it, it could be based on your length of membership here, if you have had previous issues in the rabbitry (whether you are a breeder or not wouldn't matter, if you can't abide by the rules, you would be making it worse for the forum as a whole), or perhaps you have to have someone vouch for you who is a mod or longtime trusted member? 

I don't know if any or all of that is helpful, but I do hope if it becomes private, that there will be some way for us non-problematic, non-breeders to still get an invite it.


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## la~la~land (Jul 28, 2011)

:yeahthat:


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## Pipp (Jul 28, 2011)

*FelipesMommy wrote: *


> I am not a breeder but I would like to see it remain open. I think the breeders know SO much about rabbits and I love learning about different breeds and colors. I generally trust them to know their stuff since they put so much effort, time, money etc. into what they are doing.


We're only talking about the Rabbitry. The 'Breeds' section can be updated and used for discussion and breeders are always welcome and able to post elsewhere. 

PS: I'd love to beef up the Breeds section, hint hint... 

sas


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## Pipp (Jul 28, 2011)

*rpuckett wrote: *


> Perhaps there could be a halfway ground, something to make it easier for Peg to moderate, perhaps to make it private, but be able to opt in or apply for the ability to join it? I suppose it might be a bit frustrating to set up a list or set the forum up to only allow certain people in, but I imagine it couldn't be that far off from creating a moderator only part of the forum.
> 
> Then, the opt in or ability for you to read it, it could be based on your length of membership here, if you have had previous issues in the rabbitry (whether you are a breeder or not wouldn't matter, if you can't abide by the rules, you would be making it worse for the forum as a whole), or perhaps you have to have someone vouch for you who is a mod or longtime trusted member?
> 
> I don't know if any or all of that is helpful, but I do hope if it becomes private, that there will be some way for us non-problematic, non-breeders to still get an invite it.



If it becomes private, the posts will just be out of the sight of people who haven't requested or been given access. 

I may start by taking the Rabbitry posts off of the sidebar if that's technically possible. 

People wanting to read the Rabbitry can go there, but there won't be random Rabbitry posts catching people's eyes. 

Unfortunately the rescue community is particularly often over-sensitive, and just having a Rabbitry has cost this forum a decent rescue membership and has challenged the Infirmary and other area because so many knowledgeable rescue people won't come here. I see that as certainly their own issue, not ours or the breeders. But none the less it does hurt the forum. 

sas


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## Holly11 (Jul 28, 2011)

I'm not a breeder, but I love reading (I know I don't have many posts, but I do a lot of reading!) through the topics and posts, as I am seriously thinking about showing rabbits some time in the future and also becoming a breeder. I can understand the reasons for it to be private, but if there's any possible way for other members to also join in, that would be great!


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## laylabunny (Jul 28, 2011)

I would like to see the breeder forum remain open to all, and not let a few ridiculous people ruin for everyone else. 

I probably fall under the category of the breeder that continues to discuss it after the subject was supposed to be dropped... 
:embarrassed:
But I want people to understand why I do what I do. Of course, there is no talking to people that just flip out and bash others because of a difference of opinion. Someone with that strong of a view on a touchy subject isn't going to listen to reason, no matter how practical the argument. While I won't apologize for being a responsible breeder and managing what I produce, I will defend your right to disagree with me. The mods have a heck of a tough job and I appreciate them stepping in to keep the peace.


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## hillrise (Jul 28, 2011)

I think it should be made private but allow people to opt in to be able to view it (with a warning that some topics in the forum may be sensitive, or whatever word you think works better).

Maybe the Show Room/Breed Identification could become a separate public forum (that people can get critiques on their rabbit's conformation ability and/or figure out what breed their bunnies are).

As far as the meat question goes...maybe a separate private forum that only shows up to people who specifically opt in to it (not even just visible but locked, if that's possible with the engine this boards running on).


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## Korr_and_Sophie (Jul 28, 2011)

I like to read in the Rabbity section. I have learned so much about breeding, showing and other aspects. I think I would have a different view on breeding if this section was not around. While I may not agree with everything posted (this sort of goes for the whole site as I can't like everything), I don't post just to complain about it. 
I do think that rescues and breeders need to find more common ground. Fighting about every little thing just wastes time that could be better spent on the rabbits (and other animals). While that may not be the purpose of this thread or forum, making something only accessible to certain people almost feels like you have something to hide. I do realize that is not the idea, but some people to take things a bit far. 

Would it maybe be possible to have like 2 Rabbitry areas? One could be for more general topics that don't tend to cause issues and the other for the harder topics. That way people can still learn about breeding, showing, genetics and see pictures of baby bunnies without having to deal with culling, meat breeding and other things that are still part of breeding but not everyone can handle. 

If it is decided to limit who can see it, I think that it should not be limited to just breeders. There are some people who can handle themselves and do want to learn about breeding and showing. I feel it would be a loss for those of use who do want to learn and are respectful of the topics.


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## mistyjr (Jul 28, 2011)

*Korr_and_Sophie wrote: *


> Would it maybe be possible to have like 2 Rabbitry areas? One could be for more general topics that don't tend to cause issues and the other for the harder topics. That way people can still learn about breeding, showing, genetics and see pictures of baby bunnies without having to deal with culling, meat breeding and other things that are still part of breeding but not everyone can handle.



:yeahthat:

I like this idea! :biggrin:


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Jul 28, 2011)

I have no problem that it is open or closed to be honest. 

I just want to see some maturity in the way that life works, that unfortunately some rabbits are food. I'm not the most mature person on earth either, and I'll be the first to admit that....I reallly like some aspects of this site, I truely do, and I LOVE to meet and talk with breeders.. I feel I'm very much conflicted on here, becasue I refuse to visit most of the pet boards because its just too conflicting of views.... I'm a breeder and I as well as numerous other breeders are held back at what is too tabboo to discuss. I honestly don't frequent as much because of this. 

but if it takes being closed to be able to discuss such things then that is my vote. I just wish people were more understanding and more mature about such things as meat. I know there were a few new members coming on to ask for help with that, and essentially they are ran off like they're trolls. 


p.s. I wish there was a seperate board for the WHAT TYPE OF BUN IS MY RABBIT?... Because 20 of those a day is annoying.


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Jul 28, 2011)

and a site I'm on there is a 'backporch' area... and all it is is a password that is given. Essentially on that site its to discuss anything and everything...... On here it would be to the rabbitry...... seems easy enough. And if someone violates it and starts being a winch, change the password and not give it to that member again.


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## MiniLopHop (Jul 28, 2011)

mistyjr wrote:


> *Korr_and_Sophie wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Would it maybe be possible to have like 2 Rabbitry areas? One could be for more general topics that don't tend to cause issues and the other for the harder topics. That way people can still learn about breeding, showing, genetics and see pictures of baby bunnies without having to deal with culling, meat breeding and other things that are still part of breeding but not everyone can handle.
> ...



I like this idea too. I'm not a breeder, but I love reading the discussions. It's nice to be able to see why breeders do certain things and to learn from them. I also adore all the baby bunny pictures! I personally understand there are some aspects that may upset me, but I try to see it from the other perspective. If I can't add anything constructive I just keep my mouth shut. However, I understand that not everyone can control themselves. So I would rather have the topics seperated than loose all of the nice things and fresh perspective the breeders bring.


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## TinysMom (Jul 28, 2011)

*laylabunny wrote: *


> I would like to see the breeder forum remain open to all, and *not let a few ridiculous people ruin for everyone else.
> *
> I probably fall under the category of the breeder that continues to *discuss it after the subject was supposed to be dropped... *
> :embarrassed:
> But I want people to understand why I do what I do. Of course, there is no talking to people that just flip out and bash others because of a difference of opinion. Someone with that strong of a view on a touchy subject isn't going to listen to reason, no matter how practical the argument. While I won't apologize for being a responsible breeder and managing what I produce, I will defend your right to disagree with me. The mods have a heck of a tough job and I appreciate them stepping in to keep the peace.


First of all - let me say that Art's been gone most of the week and I've been struggling with depression from missing him - plus trying to keep a couple of sick babies alive (one of which died today). 

Secondly - its HOT here. Our central a/c hasn't worked in years and we use window a/cs....but it is still very hot. It has gotten so hot lately that my computer is giving me fits and takes forever sometimes to do stuff.

I say this to explain that when things are going well in the rabbitry - it doesn't cause me any problems. I can check the threads in a few minutes and be done with it.

But when we have folks come in and bash breeders for their choices and I have to start editing them - plus edit the responses to them....then I wind up sitting in a room that is almost 90 degrees - at a hot computer which doesn't want to work - and what is normally "fun" becomes work.

In addition - when I ask folks to please change the subject and they keep on going because they "want to be heard" - it makes me feel like my efforts are not respected - and I almost came to a place of stepping down from moderating this week because I was so hurt by the fact that others wouldn't just "let it go". 

It is those two things that make moderating here "hard" for me (along with the heat) - the folks who come in and criticize breeders - and then having to deal with the breeders themselves who keep on going and going because they want to be heard (and I'm only quoting you because mentioned the two points I'm trying to make - my comments are NOT directed at you personally - I promise!)

At times this week I just wanted to go to Pipp and say "shut the rabbitry down period...".

This is how I feel when those types of threads get started and keep going (and I start getting pms about them)...

:censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2:


:banghead:banghead:banghead:banghead:banghead:banghead:banghead:banghead:bangheadullhair:ullhair:ullhair:ullhair:ullhair:ullhair:ullhair:


and finally

:crash:crash:crash:crash:crash


Perhaps the solution will be to find another moderator who has more time/energy to devote to this area and I step down because my expectations of behavior are wrong.....I don't know. I know that all of our mods are busy with "real lives" while I try to check the forum 3-4 times per day.

I'm open to hearing more suggestions and I'll be glad to discuss this with Pipp, etc. privately. If y'all feel I should step down - please feel free to tell me or Pipp....I want to see what is best for the forum.

In the meantime - I'm gonna go hug a bunny, grieve another bunny (we lost our little broken tort holland lop buck) - and try to get cool in another room.


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## Nancy McClelland (Jul 29, 2011)

I feel for you Peg. I've been a target a couple of times and generally rat out the idiot, but I don't usually wait as I do so enjoy slamming their pointy little heads in the door so to speak. By that, I take them to task verbally, but in a nice and polite way. Sounds so much better to "cordially invite someone to attend the theological place of eternal punishment" than to say "go to hell!" I've also ratted some narrow minded bigots when I thought they were being stupid and vindictive when it's never called for here. But, mine is only a very limited area whereas yours is about the size of where you live. I hate losing the wealth of knowledge that the breeders provide to us novices, but I do understand where your coming from. Remember Lincoln's sage words about "pleasing people".


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## TinysMom (Jul 29, 2011)

"cordially invite someone to attend the theological place of eternal punishment"

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

Oh Larry...

I'm sitting here with this facial masque on my face trying not to laugh so it can dry - and yet I'm dying inside and can hardly stop from laughing and crying...

I decided "hey...I bought that strawberry chocolate facial mask to try...I'll put that on - take a picture of it and show the breeders how red faced I can get from anger (but in a joking way since its the mask).

Did I mention the mask is strawberry CHOCOLATE?

I look....like maybe I got a tan...

and I'm trying so hard for it to not crack!!!

Oh well.....thanks for the laughter - I so needed it.


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## Happi Bun (Jul 29, 2011)

I know I already posted, but I just wanted to add more. I think it would be good to make it private because people that can control themselves and enjoy reading the rabbitry will still be able to view it. We really wouldn't be losing anything, in fact the breeders would be able to share MORE information without worrying about curious rescue folks (like me) reading and getting worked up. Breeders would still be able to help out pet owners, if they desire, through the public forum.


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## Kipcha (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm not a breeder but I would like to see it stay open, I do enjoy reading some of the threads there and there is some interesting information that gets posted. Perhaps you could grant access to that part of the forum until someone gives you reason to perhaps ban that person from that part of the forum?


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## TinysMom (Jul 29, 2011)

*Happi Bun wrote: *


> I know I already posted, but I just wanted to add more. I think it would be good to make it private because people that can control themselves and enjoy reading the rabbitry will still be able to view it. We really wouldn't be losing anything, in fact the breeders would be able to share MORE information without worrying about curious rescue folks (like me) reading and getting worked up. Breeders would still be able to help out pet owners, if they desire, through the public forum.


Feel free to continue posting too Erica - you're not limited to only one post on the topic.

You're one of the ones I'd like to hear from as you have been somewhat active here....

Of course, I'd love to hear from everyone - don't take that wrong - but those who have been active here are especially appreciated because I know you're here a lot!


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## SnowyShiloh (Jul 29, 2011)

I voted to keep it open to everyone. I like reading the breeder section but very, very rarely comment because whatever I say wouldn't really be relevant since I'm not a breeder.

I understand if people won't go for this, but perhaps we could make it so everyone can read the breeder subforum but only breeders can post? That could make things even hairier potentially, but it's an idea. Or maybe members who have proven themselves to have good behavior can be permitted to read/comment in the breeder forum even if they don't breed?


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## Happi Bun (Jul 29, 2011)

Thanks Peg! I also want to thank the RO staff for having this thread and trying their best through the years to make RO a friendly and stress free environment for everyone. 

I will admit I read The Rabbitry when I shouldn't. Some of the things I read just make my blood boil or make me really depressed. I'm just down right NOSY! It's a personal flaw, one of many. :rollseyes Anyway, I think I express decent self control if I do respond to threads in the breeding section. I recognize the rules and respect them.

Pipp is right about the rescue community not being strong here because of the breeder section. I know maaannny rescue folks that would see that and run for the hills. Not saying anything mean to breeders, it's just is the way it is. Rescue folks view breeders as the problem for rabbit overpopulation and the way they house their stock as cruel, Breeders view rescue folks/pet homes as uneducated and closed minded crazy PETA people (using stereotypes for both examples there). That is the way it will always be, there will always be that clashing of views.

I think RO has done a remarkable job keeping the peace the way it has, honestly. On other forums you just don't have them mix like you do here.


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## JadeIcing (Jul 29, 2011)

Oddly enough if i know some rescue people that if this area was closed would be more wary than if it was open.


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## TinysMom (Jul 29, 2011)

*Happi Bun wrote:*


> Rescue folks view breeders as the problem for rabbit overpopulation and the way they house their stock as cruel, *Breeders view rescue folks/pet homes as uneducated and closed minded crazy PETA people (using stereotypes for both examples there). *


I know that there are other breeders like myself who appreciate rescue and there are some who DO rescue too. I've taken in rabbits that others couldn't take - or taken in adult rabbits that were dropped off at the feed store because I knew what most folks in my area would think when they look at a large rabbit...

When I look at this forum, I see a lot of pet owners who have educated themselves about rabbits and are responsible and that just makes me so happy.

Anyway - I appreciate those who work in rescue and I applaud them for their work. If I was in an area with an overpopulation of rabbits, I'd most likely be rescuing vs. breeding (and even that I'm backing out of in the future - at least for flemish giants although I love them). 

It just makes me mad that people look at rabbits as "disposable pets" that they can get rid of whenever they get tired of them. I don't think that is as much the breeder's fault (I suppose at times it could be) as that of the pet owners that haven't educated themselves.

Oh - and just for the record - there are things shared here that I don't care for either as a breeder....for example, I don't eat rabbit and I don't cull / kill.

BUT - I would never attack someone else for their choices in that...


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## djluster (Jul 29, 2011)

I know I dont have much of a vote since I have only been raise/owning rabbit for 4 months or so. But I know for me I would Like to see it remain open, I know for me this section has helped me very much even before I decided to start raising dutch's. I feel this section and general rabbit question are the 2 main areas I gl to every time i get on. I learn so much form those who breed. I now breed as well. But I know if when I first got onto this site this area was closed to me there would have been so much that I would have missed and not learned, 
But on the other side there arent any subject that bother me either. But I can also see how some can be bothered by something breeders do but not just breeders but rabbit owners in general.


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## Happi Bun (Jul 29, 2011)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> Oddly enough if i know some rescue people that if this area was closed would be more wary than if it was open.


Really? I honestly cannot see why that would be.


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## Anaira (Jul 29, 2011)

I agree with JadeIcing.

I don't breed, I rescue, and I love reading the forum. The thing I loved about RO when I first found it, was the way breeders and rescuers co existed. I know of only one other community(a rat one) where that happens. I don't exactly know how the mod heirachy works, but I think having another mod from another part of the world from Peg would be a good idea. So she has help from someone who can be around at her night time. I think RO would lose something if the rabbitry became private.

I don't see why a lot of people should lose out just because a few jerks can't listen to the rules, or the mods. JMHO.


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Jul 29, 2011)

*Happi Bun wrote: *


> *JadeIcing wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Oddly enough if i know some rescue people that if this area was closed would be more wary than if it was open.
> ...



I'm in aggreeance here.

Like I had mentioned in an earlier post about the 'backporch' on another site... instead of making this breeder board private, what about leaving it open, and have a private one for those of us who are breeding for meat and other controversal issues? That way those of us who actually are interested in those aspects of the rabbitry go there and then no one else has a reason to complain about them when they pop up. And since I do understand most mods here are rescuers and Peg isn't fond of it either, assign another mod ONLY to that board?


That way the main rabbitry is there for everyone to read what they enjoy. And there should be no issue of them getting themselves kicked off the... umm meat board?

Outta site, outta mind!


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## MiniLopHop (Jul 29, 2011)

*GorbyJobRabbits wrote: *


> *Happi Bun wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *JadeIcing wrote: *
> ...



If the breeder section was completely off limits I think people on the outside may wonder what is going on there. If they tend to paranoid they may come up with all kinds of ideas of what is going on "behind closed doors". 

If the breeders still maintain a presence on the board then others may not notice there is an additional hidden room for sensitive topics?

Please don't take away the baby pictures! Just had to beg for my vicarious thrill at seeing all the babies :big wink:


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## Jashaira (Jul 29, 2011)

:yeahthat:

I like this one that way other breeder can talk about what they do and not get in truble for it. I know I bite my toung all the time as not to upset anyone. I never even reply to topics that get heated like culls and stuff. I am a breeder and would love to learn more from others that been breeding longer then I. I feel we can't couse of the heated topics and the topics we can't even talk about like for meat. I just wanted to add my 2 cents in.


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## mistyjr (Jul 29, 2011)

I like that idea too, I am also a breeder, But sometimes when we talk about "culls" maybe not for meat but what about when we have peanuts or some defect, Or something gets sick, We should be able to ask questions, ect.. 

I dont eat them, But it should be able to have other breeders talk or have questions about it. But also it should be safe for us too as breeders..






But I also like helping new bunny owners, Or somebody ask questions about owning bunnies. I had pet only owners buying some pets from me. I loved giving them info about rabbits and helping them out, (Like right now, I have a lady emailed me for a pet only bun, I am going to try help her out the best I can). Also I like helping out new breeders!


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## HappyFarmBunnies (Jul 29, 2011)

I voted "I don't care--I'm a breeder" but I feel I should expand on that because I DO care. I can just see both sides.

I think that the large majority of non-breeders who use this forum ARE respectful and DO enjoy seeing and learning things that we breeders talk about. 

I think it is PERFECTLY REASONABLE for the mods to ask us as breeders NOT to talk about something inflammatory, like culling and meat breeding. My original suggestion stands: PM each other if you want to talk about that stuff. That's why PM is there. 

I also think that it should be established that if you DO violate the rules the mods have set forth--like non-breeders being critical and stirring up drama, and breeders who continue to talk about issues that have been banned--the mods should issue a formal warning to that person. Three strikes you're out? Those people just ruin it for the rest of us. 

Breeders and non-breeders CAN co-exist peacefully if we are all respectful and mature of each other's opinions and viewpoints. Those who cannot do that should be dealt with accordingly. See above.

Good luck Peg.


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## plasticbunny (Jul 29, 2011)

*HappyFarmBunnies wrote: *


> I voted "I don't care--I'm a breeder" but I feel I should expand on that because I DO care. I can just see both sides.
> 
> I think that the large majority of non-breeders who use this forum ARE respectful and DO enjoy seeing and learning things that we breeders talk about.
> 
> ...


Very well said.


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## SNM (Jul 29, 2011)

I come to this forum off and on. There are other rabbit forums designed and focused for breeders. 

If there is such a problems occuring becuase of the Rabbitry Section it should be made private. It's sad, becuase breeders usually have the best information and diagnostics for sick or laboring bunnies.


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## laylabunny (Jul 29, 2011)

I also see both sides of the issue. I just think those who are causing the issue should be removed, not those of us calmly discussing something that occurs in breeding. Honestly, I don't like being silenced because someone else is misinformed and rude. I apologize to Peg, because I meant no disrespect to her, I only attempted to educate this person and hopefully help them realize that what they thought was not as it seemed. 

I'm definitely for the 3 strikes rule. 
Like others said, I don't think the idea of "hiding" the breeders behind closed doors is the answer. Punish the troublemakers, not those who came to share opinions and learn from each other.


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## TinysMom (Jul 29, 2011)

I've been reading all of the comments and doing a lot of thinking about this. I've also been hearing stuff privately, etc. (which is fine - people can contact me privately if they want to - I appreciate it!).

My head is spinning. Part of me says "don't make it private" because then it looks like we're "hiding" something. It also feels like it divides the forum even more into "breeders" vs. "non-breeders".

With that said - leaving it the way it is feels wrong too. It shuts the door to many discussions that might help some breeders.

I've come to realize that it isn't the people who come in here and judge breeders that cause me the most problems. I can deal with that - we have the rules that I can pop in and post and then I have the "right" to correct them. 

But it is the breeders who cause me the most stress - the ones who won't "let it go". The ones who feel they should be heard. The ones who add comments (and I don't even remember now who posted it - its a random comment from the other thread that came to me ... of "where do you think we get meat"?). 

Those are the things where I can't point to the rules and say "stop it" because they're making job even harder by insisting that they be heard.

I suppose I could just lock threads - I don't know. I hate to do that.

But its also hard to deal with complaints from members (privately) and I feel caught in the middle. 

I guess I just hate confrontation. Perhaps I will either just step down or add a moderator who can handle conflicts only (Ali...you'll probably the one I'll call since we talk all the time anyway).

I will say that a lot of it comes from our newer members/breeders .... a lot of our breeders who have been around a while are really good about waiting for me to come into a thread and deal with it - or contacting me about threads.

I am glad at least to see ideas being shared and having people talk.


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## tamsin (Jul 29, 2011)

I've voted no. I can certainly sympathise on how hard it is to manage a forum with multiple points of view though 

I was kicked off a forum a while back for not being a breeder. I'd been a member for over a year, never got involved in arguments or even heated debates. I'd posted odd helpful replies and mostly read and learned. They decided they didn't want any non breeders anymore.

I've never bred rabbits are have any intention to do so, that doesn't mean breeders have nothing to teach me or me them. There are plenty of areas where they have experience that can be useful and I think it is a shame if people decide not to take advantage of that knowledge just because they disagree with some aspect or some of the people within that group.

I also think it works the other way. If breeders cut themselves off from pet owners or people that work in rescue because they have different goals they are cutting themselves off from a wealth of valuable information.

I can certainly understand that it's difficult sometimes to interact with people with wildly different view points and when some people are openly hostile. I don't think segregation does either party any favours though.


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## pamnock (Jul 29, 2011)

I agree - private. Anyone is welcome as long as they "behave"


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## Daddy Buggs (Jul 29, 2011)

Looks like the 43rd post ended the Poll?

If not: I'm brand new here.My 2nd post, I'm a 53 male pet rabbit owner. However my father , now 84 ran a meat rabbitry for 25 years on which I helped out. He would not sell or give away a rabbit for the purpose of being a pet. So I know both extremes. I have a small clue as to the problems going on in this board. I like this quote from pg 1 "I may start by taking the Rabbitry posts off of the sidebar if that's technically possible. 

People wanting to read the Rabbitry can go there, but there won't be random Rabbitry posts catching people's eyes."

1.Have it an opt-in section,2 Allow the option for people to "Block" any offending forum or one they could not conform to the rules in.3. The pet people REALLY need the knowledge and advice that only the "Breeders" can offer in terms of care of rabbits of all types.4 I'm a member of a paid forum, not about rabbits, They have rules and state in the "terms of agreement" that "This is not a democratic forum our rules are in place for a reason and you may be banned at the discretion of the moderators"....

Please allow someway for the pet owners to get the help from the breeders that is really needed...
Regards,Joe


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## TinysMom (Jul 29, 2011)

The poll should still be open...I did not put a time limit on it.


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## naturestee (Jul 29, 2011)

I am not a breeder. But as a rescuer, the breeders here helped me a lot when I was fostering a mama and babies, and also when I raised an orphan baby. I would like to see a way that us non-breeders can still get this sort of emergency advise. 

Alicia does bring up a point that having a closed breeding discussion area could also bring up more questions with suspicious people than having the open one does in the first place.

I think what would be a good idea is to have a closed general forum for potentially offensive material, whatever that may be. Anyone who starts a flame war in there can be locked out but still have access to the rest of the forum. I've seen "offensive threads" forums work in other places. They're also very nice for political discussions, religion, or anything else that gets people hyped up.

FYI: this rescue person likes going to rabbit shows and likes most responsible breeders here.


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Jul 29, 2011)

*naturestee wrote: *


> I am not a breeder. But as a rescuer, the breeders here helped me a lot when I was fostering a mama and babies, and also when I raised an orphan baby. I would like to see a way that us non-breeders can still get this sort of emergency advise.
> 
> Alicia does bring up a point that having a closed breeding discussion area could also bring up more questions with suspicious people than having the open one does in the first place.
> 
> ...



Thats what I ment above, and agree completely with you


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## jeanluc_pippen_merry (Jul 29, 2011)

Hello,

I'd like to share my thoughts on the issue, and hope that i am not treading on toes being a new member.

Impo, i believe that the forum should stay open because there are people out there such as myself, who would like to breed one day. Though it's not something i am considering in the near future, it's definitely a hobby i am considering doing somewhere down the line. I come here for information on all aspect of owning/breeding rabbits as well as to meet and learn more through other rabbit fanciers.

I think that people should have a right to share their views, however they should also understand that when there are forum rules, everyone is expected to follow and adhere to them, and if they do not then those particular individuals should be (if at all possible) banned from posting in a particular forum. This way those who are capable of discussing a topic without becoming emotional and turning threads into a flamewars will still be able to get the information needed from the forums.

Just wanted to add that if by people not following the rules is causing you stress (and im sure it's the same for other mods) then i strongly vote for bans, or even for a private breeder forum. Even though that may affect how much i get out of the site, at the end of the day it will be the result of a few immature people who can't participate in conversation without getting personal and attacking people. And as unfortunate as that is, maybe that's what is needed to drive a point home. But i think rules for each section and then banning those who do not follow them (possibly suspension periods before a perma ban) might be a better idea rather than blocking everyone because of a hand full of people.


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## woahlookitsme (Jul 30, 2011)

When viewing everyones posts I have alot of agreement and really like the way everyone is talking out.
I voted i have another opinion and am sharing because

I really agree with the 2 different rabbitry forums where maybe the more offensive thread is not advertised and kept private from people who cannot follow the rules or where banning from the site or thread for an amount of time is upheld. I must admit i may be one of those breeders who could not drop it but im not sure if i really was. Maybe i should have asked first but im sorry if i was. 

I love helping other people on this forum and love guessing breeds especially when they are breeds i know not many people will think of when they see a mix(like a brit ) 
I think the only thread i do not visit except once is the rescue me thread but thats only because i have no room to rescue and my mom would kill me. Although i would be open to helping transport but anyways. Like others have said i really think rescue people and breeder people can coexist ,they might not agree with each other (although i do not discourage people from rescue) and certain topics are hard to stay out of but the respect is definitely not found when roaming through the boards and im glad we are allowed to express our feelings.


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## Blaze_Amita (Jul 31, 2011)

I would like the rabbitry section to remain open so long as people can be mature. I understand that it is harder for you, as the mod, to take on all the stupid crap when people can't be mature, so if closing it down to all but breeders is what it takes to make things easier on you, I'd vote that way as well. If you did the two seperate forums, one for strictly breeders and then the other the breeders could still go into both forums and thus chat there. 



Though two seperate forums can be a problem as well. I can see the pros and cons to a few of the thought trains. I haven't posted in a long time because of starting flame wars or anything else. I know how to bit my tongue when something agitates me but I also know that several topics I keep off of here, ie the meat breeding, and there are times when I am trying to find someone to talk to about it, I'm like the blind leading the blind when it comes to meat breeding.


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## Cheyrul (Jul 31, 2011)

I voted "I don't care, not a breeder" because I feel like I am probably one of the naughty rule breakers (extremists, of any kind tend to provoke me and I like to poke them, so sorry). I do want to say, having this forum open has truly helped me with our LAST litter. And the one prior but this one because it was so large and I did not know about calf manna or oats or supplementing. I truly appreciate that and promise to try not and break rules.


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## funnybunnymummy (Jul 31, 2011)

Please don't close the rabbitry! I've learned SO much from the breeders here. I think maybe a co-moderator for Peg may be the solution (one who's not afraid to put members in the litter box if they can't behave! ).

I do think the idea upthread of creating a separate forum for "What breed is my bunny?"is an excellentidea since so many new members ask this question. First off, I can imaginesome ofbreedersare tired of answering the same question over and over. PlusI know quite a few petowners/rescuers have learned theirbreeds and can usuallymake an educated guess too. But more than that, when the new members ask this question (usually in the intro threads), we encourage them topost in the rabbitry and I think thatmay make them feel free to postin other threads in the rabbitrywhen maybe it would be better if they just read that forumand learned before feeling free to make comments in there. Not saying the new members are the problem, but I have seen some heated threads between the older members and the newer ones in the rabbitry. (Does that make sense? It's late here and past my bedtime!)

I'm divided on the idea of opening a second private rabbitry area. Mostly because I think the breeders might eventually abandon the open forum for the private one. And then how would it be any different than if we just made the rabbitry private in the first place? I really don't want to see the rabbitry closed to the general membership. I think there's just too much for members to learn from the breeders. (And I do think the breeders can learn from pet owners who post there too. )

JMVHO

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## Ashleighh (Jul 31, 2011)

*Nancy McClelland wrote: *


> My hope is that all here are mature enough to discuss any topic from rescue to raising rabbits for meat. If they aren't mature enough not to engage in personal attacks because they don't like a topic or disagree with someones' opinion they my vote is to ban them. I've always believed in having all forums open for discussion. Also believe that what George Carlin once said is so true, "God must love stupid people because he made so darn many!" The reason I included that quote is because twice here someone with a limited command of the English language not only totally missed what I said, but they directed some pretty snarky comments at me too. I was very civil but I did tell them that they either need to read and understand what is said here without getting personal or that they were too dumb to be on here without a wrangler to keep them from placing their foot to deep into their own digestive tract. Also, I ratted them out to the admin her who do an exemplary job--this is one of the finest on the net.



Couldn't have said it better myself, Larry.

I love reading this threads here though, so I'd hope it wouldn't become private


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## lelanatty (Jul 31, 2011)

I am a breeder, and I would very much like to see this forum stay open to everyone. Although it may get heated at times, talking about breeding and its more controversial topics is the best way to educate everyone so that we can all be on the same page. Talking it out is usually the best way to come to an understanding. We only get into problems when we forget to use civil conversation techniques. 

It is very important for all of us to communicate and not be shut out from each other. In my mind, closing the Rabbitry area to breeders only would constitute that we have given up on reaching an understanding between breeders and house rabbit advocates. This would be a very closed-minded move on all sides, as forums were made to promote open discussion. At least with the rabbitry area open, there is opportunity for both sides to see each other's point of view. 

Perhaps a solution would be opening a new sub-forum specifically for controversial topics, so that it can be more closely monitored if need be, but please do not cut off the communication and opportunity for understanding.


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## Jynxie (Jul 31, 2011)

The rabbitry and show room is one of my favourite sections. I love seeing the baby pictures and learning more about the colours as well as genetics. I also like reading about people first getting into showing.

I don't think it should just be for breeders because I really enjoy it and I don't think a few bad apples should ruin it for everyone. 

I agree maybe we should get a few more moderators to make sure people aren't behaving properly if it's hard to catch everything.

I think people should get the message that... Keep your opinions to yourself if you don't have anything nice to say, specially when it's already been asked of them in this section.


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## Stone_family3 (Jul 31, 2011)

I'm not a breeder and I very much do enjoy this section. I don't know if you're able to do so, but why not after asking once for the subject to be changed if it isn't just close down the thread or remove it. 

Unfortunately no matter what you do there will be people who feel their opinion is more important to others. 

Thanks for letting me give my two cents. I hope a conclusion can be reached swiftly.


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## TinysMom (Aug 1, 2011)

I've read and reread and reread yet again these posts in the whole thread - at least five times each. I've spent a lot of time thinking about it, praying about it, and reflecting on what I feel I can handle as a moderator. 

Here is the way I see things....

People are most in favor of having the rabbitry remain public for everyone. The second-favorite idea is making it private but so folks can opt-in.

If we remain public - that means that discussions like meat-breeding, culling, euthanizing, etc. are out. With the help of breeders I'll put together a list of definitions for some words (like culling) and we can have it pinned and direct folks to it. I will also put together a "welcome to the forum" letter for breeders and ask our greeter Dave (wabbitdad12) to let me know when new breeders post in the introductions area. I will also pin the letter here in the rabbitry area so we can direct new members to it.

The downside of this: continued limitation on discussing certain aspects of breeding (sometimes frustrating to some breeders).

The upside of this: the feeling of openness - that no one is left out and can see the discussions.

Now let's look at the second favorite - that of making a hidden/private forum with access to non-breeders. I'm guessing it would be password protected or something. All who are part of it could post about any aspect of breeding, including the topics mentioned above that would not be allowed normally. A second idea based on this idea is that the "hot topics" area could be for breeders only with an open area for breeders here on other topics.

The downside of this: I see this splitting the forum a bit...and causing more of a division between breeders vs. non-breeders. Even if we use the hidden forum for hot-topics only, I see the potential for breeders hanging out there more than the main rabbitry forum and folks missing out on good discussions.

The upside of this: No (or few) limitations on topics for discussion.

I'm going to post this first so folks can understand where I'm coming from - then I'll post my thoughts in the next post.


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## TinysMom (Aug 1, 2011)

As I look at all this and weigh these options, I have asked myself many questions.

By the way - I'm not the one making the final decision - but I will be presenting my input to Pipp and then I'm sure the final decision will be based upon what everyone has shared.

I started thinking about this forum - the history of this forum - the purpose of this forum, etc. etc. etc

In the beginning - this forum was actually started by a meat breeder if I remember right. But when I joined sometime later, I honestly don't remember there being discussions of breeding, etc. It was mainly a group of rabbit slaves who got together to discuss their pets and enjoy talking about rabbits.

When the management of this forum changed - it was decided to try to reach out to breeders and have a rabbitry section. It was a place where breeders wouldn't be banned simply because they were breeders....a place where we could discuss things. 

But because the board was mainly pet-centered still at that time (this is in my opinion) - we were asked to refrain from discussing meat breeding/eating meat and other things that would be disconcerting to pet owners - like culling/euthanasia, etc.

I remember once sharing information on how to deal with an abscess at home and being attacked and thinking, "But I was only trying to help people and educate them..." - and someone expressed to me that while my intentions were good and noble - the fact was that having that information "out there" might lead some to try and treat something at home when perhaps it was more serious. It wasn't that I was wrong myself - but it was the way that the information could be used and handled by others.

I was upset and felt judged by the reaction of others - but looking back on it now - I see why what I posted was not appropriate for this forum at that time.

The fact is - in this age of the internet - there are other rabbit forums "out there" and some of them probably lean more towards breeders, etc. I just did a search on google for "rabbit" & "forum" and came up with what looks like 15 of them (of course WE were at the top of the list). 

So it isn't like we're the only forum out there....

I kept going back to "but we're limiting freedom of expression"...and I pictured the idea of someone going into a packed theater and yelling "fire" when there is none.

Sure - they had freedom of speech - they just didn't use it appropriately.

That brings me to ..... the next post!


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## TinysMom (Aug 1, 2011)

My conclusion I've come to is......this forum is so unique in the fact that we try to welcome ALL people - pet owners / rescuers / breeders - and we try to support them all in the best way we can.

I think to go with a private forum - even if it is open to non-members also - goes against that trust and what we've built so far. 

I really feel that it is best for us to go ahead and say "look - we enjoy discussions - but these are not allowed here. For those topics - pm a moderator for an appropriate alternate forum".

If we lose some of our breeders to the alternate forum - that will be sad....but hopefully - our forum here will be so much fun (I'm going to go back through old threads for some ideas) - that breeders will want to stay here also because they'll be able to not only talk about stuff - but hopefully feel appreciated by other members.

I am going to talk to Pipp about implementing a sort of "three strikes" rule but not for banning as much as...I don't know. I hate banning people (I was banned twice from this forum before new management). 

My thoughts go along this route...

First strike - a warning letter from a moderator (which is also stored elsewhere)

Second strike - "litterboxed" - an area we have where the member can only see the library and the litterbox while moderators try to work with them to help them understand what went wrong. Sometimes a group of people may be litterboxed together for "private discussion" and working through things.

Third Strike - account suspended for 72 hours or a week or something after a period of time in the litterbox again to try and resolve things.

Fourth Strike - banning? I don't know. Depends upon how long its been since earlier problems.

*My final thoughts...

*This leads me with the task of coming up with some sort of policy that is a bit more clear on what we allow - and a letter stating that for all new members or breeder members.

I also need to come up with a list of terms like culling, etc. that can be pinned in the forum.

I also want to find a way to make the rabbitry "fun" again for folks...I have some ideas I'll pull from the past.

Input is welcome and wanted.


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## Watermelons (Aug 1, 2011)

I personally voted to keep it open.

Im not a breeder, but i really do enjoy reading some of the stuff that happens in there, including topics about culling.

Its a very educational section of the forum, and really just like the saying if you cant say anything nice, dont say anything at all... If you dont like whats happening in there, just stop looking. Maybe on the side topics in that section can be better identified so people who want to avoid that section dont accidently click it.

I have pet rabbits, cute fuzzy cuddly little things, yet I know when some of my snakes get bigger I may need to feed them rabbits. Currently I feed my snakes rats... well I have a pet rat too. And people being so touchy on the topic make me afraid to confront breeders and ask for their culls for my snakes, I dont want to get chewed out because people are so touchy feely about topics, and I think in this case, closing out the rabbitry from the public will only cause that issue to escalate, because more people dont get to see what happens in the real world. It becomes more foregin to them and therefore more wrong in their eyes. 

Its the real world, its just what happens, same thing happens with our beef.... they were once cute cuddly calfs, and now their on our dinner plates. We can tell the farmers that their not allowed to murder cows or we can just ignore the issue, and let life move on. I stand behind always saying, if you dont like it, dont look.... I think I use that way to often but I love it.

I really would love to see the Rabbitry kept open and I think its a valueable part of the rabbit community, keeping pet owners and breeders together.


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## CCWelch (Aug 1, 2011)

I guess I should ask...How do you know who are the breeders and who aren't? How do you make the distinction?


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## Happi Bun (Aug 1, 2011)

Peg - You are awesome! Just had to put it out there. The time you are spending thinking this all over, the dedication, it's amazing and very admiring. Even though I voted to change it to private, I understand what you are saying and quite like the idea of the Rabbitry staying the way it is but touchy 'hot topics' not being allowed. Some things just are not up for discussion on pet forums. Obviously breeders can still PM answers to anyone that inquires about banned topics.


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## TinysMom (Aug 1, 2011)

I assume someone will state they're a breeder if they are one....or post about it here or something.

As far as the voting goes - it was mainly trusting the folks to say what they were. I didn't give more weight to breeders or non-breeders but I did want to see what each group felt about the matter.


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## Jynxie (Aug 1, 2011)

You know... Something that wasn't brought up was having a seperate meat section. Kinda like the games section in 'let your hare down'.

Just like people who don't like hearing about breeding... They don't have to look and they can show respect not to post hateful comments.

This way people can talk about meat rabbits and people who don't want to see it... Don't have to look at it.


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## TinysMom (Aug 1, 2011)

*Jynxie wrote: *


> You know... Something that wasn't brought up was having a seperate meat section. Kinda like the games section in 'let your hare down'.
> 
> Just like people who don't like hearing about breeding... They don't have to look and they can show respect not to post hateful comments.
> 
> This way people can talk about meat rabbits and people who don't want to see it... Don't have to look at it.


To be honest with you - there are other forums out there that are probably more appropriate for discussing meat breeding, etc. - and it would make one more section to moderate (and I don't care to read about it - so I wouldn't want to be the moderator to be honest) and I think it comes down to "is it necessary and will it do more good for the forum or cause more heartaches?"


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## missyscove (Aug 1, 2011)

I am not a breeder. Both of the rabbits I've had were adopted from city shelters. One thing I've always loved about this forum is the way that we can always share knowledge and learn from eachother. I don't think any piece of knowledge should be restricted to just breeders or just meat breeders or just rescue people. Yes, there are bad breeders out there and yes there are some really crazy rescue people out there but what I find so valuable is the knowledge. 
I remember once sharing a paper on rabbit nutrition and a member stating that they stopped reading it because it mentioned meat rabbits. I thought to myself, really, you have no interest in information that could improve the lives of your pets because the rabbits involved in the study were bred for meat production?
I'm currently interning in the bird department at a zoo. I work mostly in the brooder where we raise baby birds. Some of the species we're raising have never been raised in other zoos and it takes time to work out what the best way to do it is, but that's why it's so important to share information. Some zoos may develop the perfect formula for raising their chicks and then don't share it. How would that help the future of the species? 
I've seen my fair share of controversial topics on this forum. I've seen members come, get offended, and go. I wish we could just have a forum that people knew had controversial topics and the easily offended would just stay away but at the same time, I know that would be incredibly difficult to moderate.


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## Blaze_Amita (Aug 2, 2011)

Just the one thing I would say about the meat breeding, if we have a seperate forum for it, for hot topics in general it would make it easier on some of us breeders. While I myself do breed for meat, I also have been improving my lines for show as well as meat the two can go hand in hand- better body type to produce the better litters. I know when it was a severely hot topic I had posted about it and my thread disappeared and it ticked me off some. I mean, I knew I was going to use the babies for meat since I didn't think they were typie for show, but I needed to know where they lacked, what other breeders thought.



I moved to RH for a while, coming back here lurking and occasionally posting,but they just closed up there and I'm not ready to move into yet another forum where I don't know anyone, so I'm moving back over to here if I can find it comfortable enough.


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## TinysMom (Aug 2, 2011)

*Blaze_Amita wrote: *


> Just the one thing I would say about the meat breeding, if we have a seperate forum for it, for hot topics in general it would make it easier on some of us breeders. While I myself do breed for meat, I also have been improving my lines for show as well as meat the two can go hand in hand- better body type to produce the better litters. I know when it was a severely hot topic I had posted about it and my thread disappeared and it ticked me off some. I mean, I knew I was going to use the babies for meat since I didn't think they were typie for show, but I needed to know where they lacked, what other breeders thought.
> 
> 
> 
> I moved to RH for a while, coming back here lurking and occasionally posting,but they just closed up there and I'm not ready to move into yet another forum where I don't know anyone, so I'm moving back over to here if I can find it comfortable enough.


Heather,

I'm sorry but I don't remember the thread - so I apologize for that.

I hope folks realize it isn't that we don't want meat breeders on here at all. Its more that we don't want the discussion of the culling/freezing them, etc.

For example - I raise flemish and no - I don't eat them. But let's say for a minute that I did....and I wanted help with the type.

I could simply share some photos and ask for help on type and say, "I'm trying to decide which ones are showable and which ones might be worth keeping for my breeding program."

Notice - I never state "the others will be butchered" or "the rest I'll cull" or "the rest will go for people who need them for snakes".

Instead - I focus on the part that won't offend the pet owners. I'm still getting help on type and showing...just keeping silent about the culls.

I think its also important for folks to know that certain rabbits are referred to as "meat rabbits" whether they're for that purpose or not. 

As I said, I raise flemish giants....many people see them and go "meat rabbit". Well....sorta...yeah....folks do see them that way. 

But we prefer them with hay and binkies and "miracle grow" in their water (just kidding - but I love wabbitdad's response on how Titan got so big).


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## irishbunny (Aug 2, 2011)

I would love to see it stay open to everyone. There is a lot to be learned from this forum, and over the couple years I have been on this forum it has become one of my favourite sectioms. A large portion of topics made are from people with suprise litters who need information quickly from knowledgable people, and if this section was made private, they would be loosing out on vital information. I think it is a big job for Peg to have to moderate it by herself, and another moderator to take the pressure off might be helpful.


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## kuniklos (Aug 2, 2011)

I do not think this should be a private forum. However, I think that in order to meet the needs of those who are breeders that there should be a section of the site that is specially maintained for breeders and the topics that are relevant for them. 

I may make (assuming it's possible) that section of the site private, or have it carefully moderated. As long as the rules are clearly outlines for that section of the forums, I see no issue. It could be a trial is non-breeders with countering ethics get involved, in which case it might be worth looking into a new moderator to look at that section specifically and keep things peachy.

I am not a breeder, nor do I ever plan on breeding. I have no issue with the topics discussed (including culling)and would be interested in reading them, even if I never replied to them. Even if it were breeder-only, this forum has been a wealth of knowledge for people of all rabbit backgrounds, and I don't see any reason to censor information that could be available. However I understand that the internet epeen can get in the way of a stable conversation.


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## BethM (Aug 2, 2011)

I missed the poll because I don't come here very much anymore. When I joined, it seemed like most of the active members were pet and/or rescue, which is what I liked about this forum. There didn't seem to be very many threads about the more controversial breeder topics. As the breeder talk (and controversial topics) increased, I started coming here less and less frequently. I never usually choose to go into the breeder section, but those threads do still come up on the side topics, and I would sometimes accidentally step into a thread that could potentially ruin my whole day. 

That is a big reason I stopped coming here so much, and the main reason I will not be renewing my paid membership here. 

I will add that I'm currently an active member over on another (non-rabbit) forum, and they have some very clear guidelines about what is and isn't allowed. The "rules" are made clear, and all the mods follow the set guidelines, whether they personally agree with them or not. There are clear rules that if you talk about certain topics you WILL be banned. There's no argueing about wanting "to be heard," they are just banned and sent an explanation of what rule(s) were violated. (People who were previously banned, then re-join, are identified by their ip addresses and banned outright again.) Threads that get heated are edited and locked fairly quickly. It can be annoying at times, but helps to keep thing civil, overall. They also have the option to temporarily ban someone (one or two weeks seems usual), if they are pushing the limits but not in clear violation. They rely heavily on a system for users to report posts- there's an icon on each post that users can click on and are given a form to fill out. This way, mods can do their job efficiently without having to wade through every post in their forum. 

Anyway. Not sure if you are interested in the opinion of someone who doesn't come here so much anymore, but since this is the reason why I'm not around much, I thought I'd chime in.


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## Happi Bun (Aug 2, 2011)

I couldn't agree with you more, Beth. I'm sorry, but this is primarily a pet forum, so I do not see it necessary to have topics of meat raising and culling. Can you imagine going to dog or cat forum like this and talking about putting culled puppies and kittens in the freezer, or raising them for meat? That is taboo because they are pets. Well, rabbits in my eyes are same. Call me what you will, but I will be leaving this forum if those topics are allowed. Take those discussions to PM or join a forum geared to that specifically.

Having a 'Hot Topic' forum is not a good idea, IMO. I know of a pet guinea pig forum that has one and it is a constant source of arguments and locked threads. Things get nasty quick there. Peg doesn't need that added stress when she is having problems already with the breeding section.


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## Inle_Rabbitry (Aug 2, 2011)

On one hand, I personally think it should stay open. Simply because it helps to educate both pet owners and other breeders. 

On the other hand I do also feel that breeders should have a right do discuss some of the more serious issues that they go through with each other. 

My suggestion is, would it be possible to keep the breeder forum open, but also have a seperate closed forum set only for posts about such selective serious issues?


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## bunnychild (Aug 3, 2011)

the poll ended so i cant vote but i say yes


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## Flashy (Aug 12, 2011)

I know this is 'old' and I'm also not active, but I think this is a valuable resource.

I learnt so much in this place and from the respected members when I was active. 

I swung heavily away from where I was when I joined and am now steeped in the rescue world.

Nowadays people specifically seek me out if they have babies in the rescue world and need the advice that they can't obtain from a breeder. Without this forum I wouldn't be able to help those people save those bunny lives.

I'm not anti breeder in any way. I am anti-irresponsibility, and that goes with anyone owning bunnies, be them breeder, pet owner, rescue, sanctuary, etc.

I do think it's valuable and it sounds like only some people create the problems. Could you maybe look to 'exclude' people if they cause problems as opposed to exclude/include specific groups?

(and yes, I am very late to this and I am sorry).


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## The Haven Rabbitry (Aug 13, 2011)

I am a breeder myself, and have no preference to whether it remains open or closed, however I do feel there are a lot of people who visit this site that need help and can't find it anywhere else. For example: an accidental breeding, a rescue bunny who 2 days later has an unexpected litter, etc... 

My only other question is, how do you determine who is okay for the forum and who isn't? How will you know if someone is a true breeder or just saying that to get access into the Rabbitry section? Just a thought.


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## TinysMom (Aug 13, 2011)

Since the poll is closed, this thread is old and we won't have a separate forum (at this time)-I'm going ahead and locking this thread.

Thanks to all who gave their input.


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