# Nala and Gaz get a "Nermal" [a journal on trio bonding]



## Imbrium (Dec 31, 2013)

Right before I left for my foster program orientation class at the Houston SPCA, I was teasing Roo (our older cat) and warning him that if he didn't behave himself, I might bring home a replacement for him from the shelter... but then I quickly admitted that he knew I'd never get rid of him no matter how naughty he was and switched to threatening to bring home a younger, cuter, better behaved cat to make him look bad - ie a "Nermal".

While I hadn't planned to, I ended up adopting a third bunny, lol. After having him home for a few hours, Jay and I were marveling over him - we've never experienced a NORMAL bunny before, who does normal bunny stuff, isn't always a naughty little naughty and can actually be trusted to roam a bunny-proofed room. We laughed over how bad he made Nala and Gaz look and realized that I'd inadvertently gotten THEM a "Nermal" .

I don't know if I'm actually going to name him Nermal. I do think it would be fitting, as his personality and manners basically make him Nermal to their Garfield, but RO already has a bunny named Nermal. I don't think she'd mind having to share the name... but I could see Reuben taking offense that he was no longer the only RO bunny with a "Nermal," lol.

Since the name he came with (Thumper) is horribly unsuitable for him, I've just been addressing him as "Sir". I think I might go ahead and just start calling him Nermal so he doesn't end up being named "Sir" permanently, lol. The last cat I had, who I loved SO much, went through life with the name "Ma'am" - I'd wanted to name her "Gaz" (this was almost a decade before Gaz the bunny came to be) but it didn't quite fit... I'd hoped she would grow into it, but she never did and by then, "Ma'am" had stuck.

~~~~~

Anyway, I thought I'd do a new, temporary blog for this little guy. My main blog is getting quite long (making it hard to find specific stuff easily) and my early experiences with this new bunny are liable to be pretty relevant to others now and then, since I'll be attempting to bond him to Nala and Gaz - something that's not commonly done, as trios tend to be especially tricky. F/F bonds are also considered potentially volatile, though, so hopefully I'm up for the challenge!

I think there's only been two lengthy "journal" type threads on trio bonding created in my year and a half on RO - Blue eyes' experiences with Mocha, Sapphire and Chip (an attempt at bonding an existing female to a M/M sibling pair from a shelter that was initially promising but ultimately unsuccessful due to the brothers fighting) and zombiesue's experiences with Tank, Mulder and Scully (existing male rabbit + M/F sibling pair (bonded) from a shelter; successful to date *knock on wood*).

My experience is already a good bit different from theirs - I'm trying to add a new shelter bunny to an existing bonded pair rather than the other way around. Hopefully a year and a half worth of insight into the bonded pair's dynamic will prove to be an advantage, since the biggest risk in trio bonding is that - if unsuccessful - it can potentially break the original pair's bond. Also, I'm dealing with a F/F/M dynamic rather than a M/M/F dynamic (which I suspect has note-worthy differences).

From the perspective of someone considering or attempting a bonded trio, the more trio experiences you can find to read about, the better, since no two trio experiences will be the same... so I'd like to keep my own write-up about it easy to find later. My main blog also tends to have more off-topic ranting and story telling than it has bunny stuff, plus it contains copious amounts of swear words. With a secondary blog thread, I can have my random tangents in the main one and keep this one less cluttered .

I do love my swear words and I see nothing wrong with swearing freely in any blog where the author establishes that as the status quo... but that's only because most blogs are pretty much personal conversations/chit-chat amongst friends. My thoughts on swearing (and the seeming consensus of everyone else here who likes to swear) is that wanton swearing is acceptable in threads that are obviously only read for entertainment purposes AND have a "personal" feel to them (as opposed to the public OT forum and "Bunny Chat"); anywhere else on the forums, swear words should be used sparsely if at all and the majority of the ones that don't set off the profanity filter still warrant self-censoring.

RO exists mainly as a means to exchange information. ALL bunny owners should want to learn and teach bunny-related stuff, but it's unfair to expect them all to be accepting of casual swearing... if for no other reason than that many people are parents and it's a known fact that little kids tend to get very nosy once they start learning to read. No parent wants to be reading a thread they assume is "family friendly" only to have their 5 year old wander up, point to a swear word and ask what it means. For that reason, I feel that uncensored obscenities belong in predictable and easily avoidable places as a matter of common courtesy.

In other words, since I hope to keep this thread more about my learning experience re: trio bonding/less a compilation of ramblings (not off to a great start in that aspect, lol), I'm going to make a point of not swearing my *ss off all the time and at least self-censoring if I do .


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## Imbrium (Dec 31, 2013)

[I'll be posting more on the actual bonding part in a bit - just realized Home Depot closes in half an hour, assuming I don't get screwed by shortened holiday hours, and I want to make a quick run over there if I can remember in time what the heck it was I thought I had to have tonight, heh. Time to wander through my projects to see if I can jog my memory!]


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## zombiesue (Dec 31, 2013)

Tank rabbit was introduced to Mulder and Scully at the shelter, and I took them home because that initial meeting went so well. Your third rabbit just happened to worm his way into your heart, lol. I think that's the most important, noteworthy difference between yours and my experience, anyway.

I wish you the best of luck. I'm eagerly reading everything lol.


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## Imbrium (Jan 1, 2014)

*Sigh*... I finally remembered what it was I wanted from HD, but by the time I did it was like 2 minutes too late for me to actually get there and make it in the door before 10 pm. Oh well... on to the bonding whatnot!

I've never truly bonded rabbits before, though I've done a ridiculous amount of research/reading up on it and could give out bonding advice in my sleep. I *have* re-bonded my pair, but it's not the same as bonding two rabbits from scratch.

*Nala and Gaz/background info:*

I got Nala and Gaz at 7 and 8 weeks old, respectively. I just plopped them together, took them home and put them in the same cage... which worked out just fine, since fortunately it turns out that babies will get along with pretty much anyone. I got two girls because I picked Nala out first and she was female - another female meant no risk of babies (I figured a male could be neutered, but I also figured they'd need to be a bit older first).

I suppose I'd figured, based on experiences with other species, that you can just throw together two freshly-weaned juveniles (regardless of whether or not they're related) without fear of consequences - the "babies get along with anyone" thing is true of most animals. I think I also assumed that not all adult rabbits get along, the same way any two cats, dogs or humans might have unresolvable personality conflicts - after all, rabbits have personalities so of course they could potentially have personality conflicts. While I didn't consciously consider any of that, it must've been floating around in the back of my mind because I know I deliberately picked two bunnies that seemed to have fairly opposite personalities (one dominant/one submissive, though I didn't think of them in those terms until later) without really knowing/understanding why I was drawn to do so.

Anyway, I resumed my research after getting them home (they were pretty much an impulse purchase - I woke up intent on getting "a bunny" and spent half the day doing research like one would cram for a test; basically making sure I bought everything they needed and didn't get anything unsafe). I read that it was good to keep them in pairs but also that it wasn't considered mandatory, so I hadn't even decided how many rabbits I was going to bring home when I left the house to get them .

A day or two later, I found out that spaying was considered *necessary* for both health and bonding reasons when they hit puberty, which was news to me. The last time I'd had a bunny, they were supposed to be housed alone and you didn't get them spayed/neutered (the latter presumably being the reason for the former)... much changes in 20 years, though! I figured "ok, whatever (no big deal)" about the spays and made a mental note to find out what age the vet was going to want them to be.

Then I learned that it's possible for babies who are raised together to start fighting when their hormones kick in (at 4-6 mos for girls, the same age the vet quoted me for when they could be spayed). Again, didn't seem like a big deal... until, at 3 mos old, I asked about making an appointment for spaying in a month and the vet said he'd prefer to wait until 5 months old because of their small size. This meant there was a chance I'd have to house them separately (for safety reasons) for as much as a month pre-spay and another month post-spay (the time it takes for females' hormones to dissipate). I prepared for the worst.

Suffice it to say, it was a LONG month from when they turned 4 mos old until their spay dates! I vigilantly kept an eye out for signs of fighting, but I lucked out and they were able to stay together the whole time. Unfortunately a few days later, serious fighting broke out and I had to separate them for the rest of their recovery time... and then I had to figure how the heck to mend their inexplicably broken bond.

There was some trial-and-error (mostly error), a lot of paranoia and worry and then a realization that maybe it didn't have to be an ordeal that began with starting over from scratch. I asked my neighbor if I could bring them (and an x-pen) over to her house; she was thrilled with the idea of getting some "bunny time". I set the girls up in her kitchen and we had a play-date on truly neutral territory.

I was more than a little shocked when my neighbor alerted me to something, pointing at the rabbits, and I looked down to discover Gaz HUMPING Nala. WTF?? Why was my submissive girl trying to stage a coup? I panicked and shoved her off of Nala, forgetting that you're normally supposed to let it continue for a bit as long as it doesn't escalate. It worked out, though - she ended up not humping again and they somehow managed to overcome Gaz's power-grab without fighting.

When their bond inexplicably broke again a few months later, I went straight for the neutral territory trick and again, that mended their bond. There was a third incident after we'd been in Houston for a while, but that time I broke up the fight, monitored closely and that ended up being the end of it so I chalked it up to being a "domestic squabble".

~~~~~

I always told myself it was better if I didn't consider trying to add a third rabbit, since same-sex bonds are supposedly so volatile to begin with and I wouldn't ever want to break my girls' bond. However, in the back of my mind, I secretly suspected it might work out okay if the right male happened to fall in our laps.

When I saw "Thumper" on the HSPCA site, I fell in love... but I assumed I'd be able to say "no" if I met him in person because my concern for the girls' bond would outweigh his adorableness. I really didn't expect a rabbit dumped at a shelter to very obviously (while still at the shelter) display a personality that managed to stand out to me as appearing compatible with the Nala/Gaz dynamic. I thought wrong, heh. Somehow, he came across as dominant enough that Gaz wouldn't want to challenge him, yet submissive enough to bow down to Nala without a fight. I hedged for maybe half an hour, confirmed that I could return him if things didn't work out, lied to myself regarding my ability to make him go back to the shelter later and then jumped in head first.

~~~~~

The more I got to know this little guy after bringing him home, the more I started to think that this whole thing might actually manage *not* to bite me on the butt... which was a relief, since I'd found out he was only neutered about a week before I got him - I knew there was no way I could keep him for 6-8 weeks (of waiting for hormones to GTFO) PLUS 2-4 weeks of attempted bonding all while maintaining a mindset that would make it possible to return him. Heck, it only took a few HOURS for me to be so in love that I knew he was here for keeps... even if it meant housing him separately from the other two for the rest of their lives because I couldn't bond them.


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## Imbrium (Jan 1, 2014)

*Session 1
*The shelter only allows play-dates between dogs (boo!)... I was told it was because "they wouldn't be able to pull rabbits apart if they started fighting." I wanted to respond, "No, YOU wouldn't be able to pull them apart - I can, have and would" but I figured it wasn't worth making a scene over. [Mental note: explain the necessity of bunny-dates to the clueless shelter people and convince them to let me chaperone bunny dates as part of my volunteer work should the situation arise.]

I wanted to do preliminary intros as soon as possible - I knew I'd probably have to wait out his hormones to do serious bonding work, but preliminary intros would give me an idea of what I was dealing with so that I could think about my approach in the meantime.

I knew hormones could cause humping, which could be construed as an assertion of dominance and result in fighting. In other words, hormonal male + uber-dominant Nala = clusterf***... and if I allowed that to happen even once, it could severely hinder my odds of ever bonding the three. Luckily, I also knew that a willingly submissive bunny doesn't take offense to said dominance display and fortunately for me, I've got a super-submissive little loaf.

Nala actually ended up meeting him first (though not really by my choice) about 24h after I brought him home. He was in an x-pen in our bedroom and I was at my desk when Jay came in to unexpectedly deliver a Nala. I was wary, but allowed him to hand her over and crossed my fingers she wouldn't take immediate offense to the strange bunny in the room. I figured if I was holding her, I'd be able to closely monitor her vitals and pick up on even the most subtle signs of tension or aggression (though the downside was that I'd be the scapegoat if she got pissed off and bitey). Surprisingly, her body language showed no indication at all of any negative emotions; she was pretty much like "ok, whatever" with a hint of curiosity.

After a while, I let her jump off my lap... watching like a hawk every time she strayed remotely close to the x-pen, prepared to have to break up a fight through the bars at any second. Nothing. She hopped around; he hopped around. They both seemed very "Oh, you're a bunny? I'm a bunny too. Imagine that." I was amused, but I still scooped her up after a few minutes because I didn't want to push my luck.

Later that evening, I started hearing crashing noises and such from the x-pen... shrugged them off as him demanding out and told him it was better for him to be in a small space for the first couple days. Then I turned around right *as* he made a racket and witnessed him bouncing into the side of the pen as he attempted to do a binky in a space that just didn't allow it. I almost wanted to cry for a split second there! I dropped everything I was doing to clean up/bunny proof the bathroom and hallway for him so he'd have room to do a real binky.

Nala and Gaz did have free run of those areas for a couple weeks before proving they couldn't be trusted, but that was months ago... so right after I moved him to his new space, I figured I'd do a face-to-face with him and Gaz in the hallway/bathroom area before he could decide that it was "his" territory.

I put Gaz down a few feet away from him. There was brief sniffing followed by crazed humping. I let it go on for 10 seconds or so, since I knew that's what you're supposed to do as long as there isn't serious fighting and she sat there like a loaf the whole time. Pushed him off and he went right back for more.

We repeated that a few times, then she hopped into his cardboard box and turned around to face out... hormonal little bugger tried to hump her face! I broke that up RIGHT away, because bad things can happen when one rabbit humps the "bitey" end of another (even though she had it coming because I've seen her try to hump Nala's face before!). She came out of the box; more humping. After about 3 minutes of him humping, her loafing and me separating, I decided that was enough for one day. If she can put up with that so willingly, I imagine she'll put up with pretty much anything.

I put Gaz back in the pen. I'm sure she reeked of "new guy" smells. Nala came up to her right away and started sniffing her cheeks off... I watched anxiously for any sign things were about to go south. The sniffing and investigating went on for a long time but ultimately, Nala decided she didn't mind that Gaz smelled like another bunny.

All in all, preliminary intros went even better than I had hoped! Next step is to periodically use Gaz as a litmus test of sorts to gauge how bad his hormones still are - once he can do something other than constantly try to mate, I can do a face-to-face between him and Nala. I figure I'll work out any major kinks between him and each girl separately and then once they're okay with that, I'll get all three together on fresh neutral territory.


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## Imbrium (Jan 1, 2014)

zombiesue said:


> Tank rabbit was introduced to Mulder and Scully at the shelter, and I took them home because that initial meeting went so well. Your third rabbit just happened to worm his way into your heart, lol. I think that's the most important, noteworthy difference between yours and my experience, anyway.
> 
> I wish you the best of luck. I'm eagerly reading everything lol.



Actually, I really was capable of being immune to his charm for my girls' sake - the reason he found his way into my car was because I did a mental play-date between the three that looked really promising, lol. In retrospect, I think it worked out much better that way - a real play-date would've gone south in a hurry due to him still being so hormonal and Nala being so "I'm the alpha bunny!" but the mental play-date (which appears to have been reasonably accurate) removed the hormone variable from the equation. (He's never shown any signs of being hormonal when there wasn't another rabbit to hump, so I had a good feel for his true personality.)

For what it's worth, I've picked out a companion for a very "alpha" female before, which made me much more confident in my ability to get a read on this potential trio. The other time involved sugar gliders rather than bunnies, but the glider introduction/bonding process has more similarities to bunny bonding than differences.

I picked a cage-mate for Hurricane without any input from her... apparently she approved of my choice because I did a preliminary intro (at home/on neutral ground) that went SO shockingly well that I ended up moving them in together - in HER cage - immediately after the introduction (which started with setting their sleeping pouches on the floor a foot or so apart, lasted all of 2 minutes and ended with them curling up for a nap in her sleeping pouch). That's like six kinds of "no no" rolled into one, yet it couldn't have gone more smoothly! (Normally, it takes at least 4-8 weeks to get through the process of scent-swapping and gradually moving their cages closer together followed by doing supervised bonding sessions on neutral territory before you even consider letting them move in together... which is supposed to involve a "neutralized" cage that neither of them thinks of as theirs. Oh, and like with rabbits, females tend to be significantly more territorial than males.)

Basically, I used my intuition to get away with something that I would tell anyone else "You really shouldn't ever do because it's not safe," lol. _[Edit: forgot to mention, I *did* stay up all night with their cage right beside me just to make sure I hadn't misjudged things and it really was safe to have them together already.]_ What can I say, I know what type of personality will make each of my dominant girls happy. Maybe it's because I'm predisposed to hate other members of my own species too, so I know what it takes to overcome that predisposition .


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## zombiesue (Jan 1, 2014)

Humping isn't just a hormonal behavior so it won't be a good indication. Some rabbits are just really, really humpy. A long time ago I tried to bond Tank to a different rabbit (didn't work out) but he'd hump him nonstop if I let him. They just do it to show dominance, they're not trying to mate. Rabbits know they can't mate with other rabbits of the same gender although they don't act like it sometimes LOL.


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## Imbrium (Jan 1, 2014)

Yes, but *incessant* humping a week post-neuter in a fairly submissive-seeming bunny is most likely hormonal . If it continues past the 6-8 week mark, then it's definitely a dominance display. Body language suggested, however, that he was acting on an impulse to mate that was set in motion the split second he realized there was another bunny in the room.


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## JBun (Jan 1, 2014)

Hey, where's the pictures!!!  

Being as laid back as he seems, I would bet the humping subsides when the hormones do. Took my boys about 3 weeks before it started to go down, and 4 weeks til it hardly happened at all. 

He just seems like the greatest little guy! I hope it all works out. I'm attempting a trio too, but I have less faith in mine succeeding because of that big grump Dakota. But I guess you never know. Yours seems like it has a pretty good chance though.


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## zombiesue (Jan 1, 2014)

Ohhhh. Well, if he doesn't cut it out in a few weeks I'd say it's just him LOL but it could still be hormones at this point yes.

I can't wait to see how this unfolds. I'm dying to know the future. I love bonding journals. LOVE. THEM. Thanks for making one.


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## Imbrium (Jan 1, 2014)

I'll see about some pics tomorrow - Jay is sleeping so I don't want to turn on a bunch of lights, and I don't want to subject Nermal to copious amounts of flash photography.

I forgot that I was also going to make this a bit of a "how to deal with a new bunny" thing... he's not flighty like many new bunns, but he does HATE being picked up (or held in place) with the fire of a thousand suns. Also, I've never dealt with a bunny this size before - while he's far from huge at a bit over 7 lbs, he's no dwarf! I do have the benefit of lots of experience dealing with 11-16 lb cats that fight like hell over nail trims, but with cats you don't have to be paranoid about the possibility of self-inflicted spinal injuries from kicking their back feet into open air full-force so a 7 lb bunny is actually more of a challenge than a beast of a cat.

I can sometimes pick Nermal up without offending him, but it's extremely hit and miss so far and I'm still running down the potential variables to up the success rate. He acts like he's never been picked up before, lol... maybe that's why he got given up for being too big, that the previous owners were scared to pick up a struggling 7 lb bunny? Too bad for him, we require our bunnies to accept being "got" periodically so he's just going to have to get used to it . He's already vaguely more accepting about being scooped up; I feel like I have better luck if I catch him by surprise with an ambush-scoop.

I'll probably post a video in the next day or so - was hoping to ease my way up to the nail trimming point but unfortunately I discovered that neither the shelter nor the vet who did his neuter bothered to trim his nails, which are in a state of fairly bad neglect. I need to do them ASAP, but am too tired for the whole video ordeal at the moment and he seems unfazed by their length. I think it may only be the back ones that are really bad (didn't actually look, I just felt the back ones while I was petting him earlier) and he's been running around on both carpet and hard flooring like he doesn't have a care in the world. I need to take him in for his free vet check (offer expires after Friday) and could have it done there, but they'd probably charge extra and I'd probably do a better job.

I've never actually tried to flip him on his back yet - I plan to do it for the first time while shooting the video. I fully expect him to make an fool out of me as I learn through a bit of trial and error how to manage him during a nail trim (considering he's much stronger, larger and prone to fighting me than the girls). I suppose I could save face by getting the hang of it privately before doing the video, but I think the "making an *ss" of myself route will be more beneficial for newbie rabbit owners. After all, their rabbit is bound to get the better of them so I figure it might help to see how a more experienced owner regains control of the situation when things start to go south. How-to videos that make a difficult task look FAR more easy than it's actually going to be for a beginner aren't necessarily that helpful (hence wanting to do a second handling/nail trim video with a less cooperative demo bunny).


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## PaGal (Jan 1, 2014)

Thank you for starting a bonding/dealing with a new bun blog! I am sure it will be a big help to those looking to bond buns or those dealing with a new bun or larger bun.

I am really looking forward to the video. Thumper is laid back as all get out but does not want p, combining the two so icked up. I have trouble because of his larger size and my small size. I don't need to pick him up for nail trims. He melts into the floor with nose/check rubs and will just lie calmly while I trim a nail in between pets.

Hhhmmm. Have you given thought to naming him Sir Nermal?


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## Imbrium (Jan 1, 2014)

Hehe, too cute! I keep wandering back to the name "Howie" too... one of the other bunns at the HSPCA is named Howie, but it doesn't seem to fit that bunny. Kinda works for this one. Only thing is that there's another bunny with the same name and I'm going to be either fostering that Howie or working with him a lot at the shelter, so it seems weird to give them the same name ><


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## Apebull (Jan 1, 2014)

OK and where is the pictures at! I'm dieing to see what Nermal, aka Sir possible aka Howie looks like. And aren't you worried that the terrible duo are going to turn him to the dark side once they are bonded?


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## Imbrium (Jan 2, 2014)

Pfft, too late. He's already a total jerk to the cats, just like the other two. He only behaves to get cuddles and veggies.


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## honore (Jan 2, 2014)

I posted some comments back in the summer when I decided to adopt a male from the shelter for my older female. I was looking for somebody her age (6 years old), but all they had were younger rabbits. Our dog had just died and the rabbit was lonely, so I didn't want to wait any longer and just adopted one who was her size and who I'd thought could put up with Clementine's complicated personality. The bonding took some time, but went pretty smoothly overall. They have been best of friends and are a great bonded pair who really look to be into each other. 

I continue to worry about their 5 year age difference, though, and am thinking to adopt a third rabbit from the shelter. That way, when Clementine passes, Charlie won't be too depressed. Having a male and a female pair, what gender do you suggest would be most successful? Charlie is more rabbit social and easy-going than Clementine. I would describe her as "complicated". She comes across as dominant and moody, but underneath all that "tough-girl", is really a very sensitive and emotionally needy rabbit. I really could not tell which of the two is the alpha rabbit, since they seem to take turns. Clementine occasionally humps him from the front, but right after that she grooms him. Charlie doesn't seem to mind either way. He never humps her, but he does make her groom him (sticks his head under her chin) when he comes up to her.

Anyway, I'm writing all this just to get a clue and hopefully some advice on which gender might be the best for my future trio...

Thanks and Happy 2014 to all!


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## Imbrium (Jan 2, 2014)

I'm honestly not sure which gender would be better... and it's probably more about personality in the end anyway. I would look for a shelter that allows bunny dates if you're interested in a trio. Keep in mind, though, that adding a third bunny to a bonded pair is a big risk - not only can the trio not work out, it can potentially break the pair's bond. It would be a lot easier to find him a new companion when the time comes, as he's likely to be very receptive to finding a friend if he's a bit depressed over losing her. Also, males tend to be a lot less territorial so it's easier to bring a new bunny home to an existing male than to a female. I think a trio is more something to be open to if the situation presents itself than something to go looking for - if you do try to find a new bunny to add to your pair, I recommend being very picky and patiently waiting for the perfect one


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## Imbrium (Jan 2, 2014)

Here's the new guy playing with some packing paper and then instigating my foot/the camera 

















I got his nails trimmed... it was way easier than I expected! He did try to fight, but I held him *really* snugly and he let me do it with minimal struggling. Video's uploading now.


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## Aubrisita (Jan 2, 2014)

Aw, he really is cute. I too love reading bonding journals. It is good research for me.


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## Imbrium (Jan 2, 2014)

I had *never* tried to flip him before this video. I just about got him flipped on the first try, but then he started struggling. For his safety and so that I could regain control, I flipped him back upright... but I immediately shifted him around and flipped him right back onto his back to put my foot down about which one of us is the boss.

I arbitrarily ended up turning sideways (relative to the camera) when I sat down this time... I think I like it better that way; seems to give a better view of how I'm handling him.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQzlUM2NEFY[/ame]


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## pani (Jan 2, 2014)

Hehe, Felix got his first nail trimming since I took him home today... but it was done at the breeder while he got his calci vaccination. :upsidedown: I'm a bit worried to try trimming them myself next time, but that video will help a lot! He's a dwarf so he should be easier to keep a handle on, too.


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## JBun (Jan 2, 2014)

YOU'RE THE *BOSS!!!* Can I send Baby to your house for trims? She's a monster come trimming time


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## zombiesue (Jan 3, 2014)

Omg girl you rock that hair lol. Congrats on your first nail trimming on the new bun.

If he were my rabbit, I'd name him Badger


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## Sindri27 (Jan 3, 2014)

I love the color of your hair btw. Badger is a nice name as well. He did well getting his nails done.


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## PaGal (Jan 3, 2014)

You make that look so easy. Want to come up for a visit? Thumper is laid back enough for me to trim his nails while he's bunloafed with some nose rubs in between . I can pet him anywhere and most of the time he is fine with it but he does not want picked up.


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## honore (Jan 3, 2014)

Mmmm... that seems good advice. You're right, Charlie would be much easier to bond with a new rabbit than Clementine. And I was indeed concerned about her ending up getting alienated if the new rabbit would only bond with Charlie. Unfortunately our shelter doesn't allow bunny dates, but they do allow human-bunny dates. When I picked Charlie, who is perfect for Clementine, I picked him out after spending time with all the shelter rabbits while imagining that I was Clementine haha. Thanks!


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## Imbrium (Jan 3, 2014)

Thanks, I love the purple too, hehe... the crimson came out a little stronger than I'd planned near the top of my head, but it works (don't think you can even see that on the video because of the lighting). It's my first time using "Splat" brand dye - I hadn't even known there was a permanent dye for "unnatural" colors! Much better than manic panic and such (don't have to leave it in for hours to get good results and it doesn't fade out over the course of a month - the last time I made a video, my hair was kind of silvery blue from the traces of blue and purple manic panic dye ). The bleach that comes with it is godawful, though - I should've listened to my instincts instead of trusting that maybe they knew something I didn't. Next time I'm going back to the garnier nutrisse lighting stuff that's bleach-free - I don't understand how it works so well without seeming to damage your hair, but it's amazing!

There's no way I could trim this guy's nails with him bunny-loafed - he struggles way too much over being held in place! Not sure why he hates it so much when he'll gladly lay with you and cuddle for ages. I actually woke up in the middle of the night to find him licking my face, neck and chest!

I think I'm going to name him "Norm" (short for "Norman")


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## Tauntz (Jan 3, 2014)

Thanks for the nail trimming video, Jennifer! One question about nail trimming, can you use regular people finger nail clippers? Reason I ask is I do have the cat nail scissor type clippers but either they are defective or me! lol I tried to clip a bunny nail & when I went to snip the nail the scissor clipper didn't cut the nail even though I completely closed it. I have trimmed my bird's nails with regular human finger nail clippers & followed up filing them to smooth them out with a cardboard nail file. I seriously, think my cat clipper scissors are off so they don't close properly for cutting but maybe it is just me.


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## PaGal (Jan 3, 2014)

That's the interesting thing with Thumper, I don't have to hold him. He will run to me and if I sit down he immediately loafs to get nose/cheek rubs. Usually he sits to the side of me often with his head on my leg. I just give rubs for a few minutes and then can reach over him, hold a foot and trim a nail. Then I just give some more pets and do it again. 

I am smart enough to time it when no one is home but me and when the dog is snoozing to lessen the chance of Thump being startled by something which doesn't happen often and I may finish the task over a two day period but it is so nice and easy to accomplish.


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## Imbrium (Jan 3, 2014)

Your tactic wouldn't work on this guy, lol - he normally loves to come up for snuggles, but god help me if I try to lift a paw! I had to resort to flipping him on his back just now in order to get a picture of one of his nails for another thread. It also doesn't help that he's got sable coloring and dark nails, so the black fur on his feet makes them very hard to see if I can't splay the paw out.

I really think that when it comes to nail trims and picking bunnies up, there are obviously some ways that are "wrong" (because they make it possible for the bunny to injure themselves in the process)... but there's no ONE right way to do it. Different bunnies and different owners have different preferences - it's about figuring out what tactics fit your particular situation. If someone can clip nails comfortably and safely with the bunny upright/in loaf position, then that's a perfectly viable way to do it... and a bunny who's reasonably happy with that method may not take well to being flipped for nail trims anyway. My bunnies are the opposite, though - they need that firm control, otherwise they're far too squirmy for me to be safe and accurate with the clippers.

Tauntz - the clippers I use in the video are a $3 pair of bird clippers; I've also got a pair of cat clippers (which look identical other than a different color plastic around the top) that I use, depending on which I find first (both work great on the bunnies and the cats)... I've also got a tinier pair of bird clippers that I got from the breeder I got my first sugar gliders from that I use on them (those are too delicate for bunny nails, though). I've never actually tried human nail clippers on any of the pets... I know some people use the slanted type for gliders, but I imagine bunny nails are a bit thick for them. You could always try it, though. FWIW, it does sound like your cat clippers are defective - possibly too dull or don't close properly.


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## PaGal (Jan 3, 2014)

Yes, that wouldn't work with a squirmy one. I was actually surprised when he let me trim his nails while he just laid there. Some of his nails are dark which required me to use a light to make sure of the quick first which made it a little more difficult. Sometimes a third arm would just be a God send. 

With the girls it's definitely at least for now a two person job. They aren't even crazy about being petted let alone holding and being still that long.


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## Chrisdoc (Jan 4, 2014)

Love this and yes, you did call him Norm....I was reading your other blog and thought...OMG what did I miss. He´s a little cutie, love his colour and things seem to be going quite well for a start. 

Unusually enough, nail clipping for my three is relatively easy, they are all getting better at being handled as they get older and all tolerate being picked up quite well and seem to actually enjoy it now whereas before both Houdini and Bandy would struggle like hell. 

Can´t wait to see how things develop between these three. And yes, I hope they don´t teach him bad habits lol.


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## Imbrium (Jan 15, 2014)

So this afternoon, Jay (who is virtually uneducated about bunny bonding aside from my occasional off-hand explanatory comment but is a bit of a born bunny-whisperer) volunteered his take on the current situation.

Norm is penned in the hallway/bathroom area; blocking the doorway into the living room is one of my 1x2 and screen "thwartation" doors - meaning the bunnies have been able to smell each other and see each other for quite a while now (their pen stops 3-4' away from the screen door). You can't see all of one bunny area from the other, so they're often not in view of each other, but they *are* able to interact from a distance somewhat.

He told me he sees them communicating across the gap to some extent (as do I - I often spot them at the gate to the pen/Norm at the screen door, all looking across at each other and appearing to exchange some casual thoughts).

According to him, Normie looks like he's outright desperate to be with the other bunnies instead of being isolated... the girls give off more of a "curious" vibe but are willing to wait and see how things pan out. He also mentioned that whenever Norm gets through the screen door into the living room (because it was left ajar for a moment), he usually goes straight to the pen and if the girls are nearby, the three of them will greet/sniff/etc. through the bars.

He then informed me that "It kinda seems like they're all waiting on *you*."

I had been stalling to wait out Norman's hormones and trying to dismiss the "What's the hold up, mom, why aren't we being bonded? We're ready, **** it!" vibe I've been getting from all three bunnies... as well as Normie's longing, almost desperate gazes out into the girls' pen like he's convinced he belongs there... but after Jay pointed out everything I'd been thinking to myself the last few days, I decided to go ahead and give bonding a try.

I have a fold-up baby crib (minus a mattress and two of the four legs are missing casters) that I scavenged from the parking lot a while back and periodically use as a sawhorse and/or for temporary storage that's inaccessible to cats/bunnies, so I decided to try using that with a shower curtain liner over the bottom to protect the wood bottom from pee/spray bottle water.

I left the crib where it happened to be at the moment - in the living room, just outside the girls' pen - and hoped that was far enough from their territory to be neutral. I put Norm and Gaz in first. He didn't get around to humping her quite as quickly this time, but was still very adamant once he got started. It was difficult to get him to stop - and stay stopped - for more than a couple seconds; however, it was still possible (an improvement over last time). Once I actually derailed the humping, they'd sit there and ignore each other for 10-20 seconds before he got into being humpy again. Like last time, Gaz didn't seem to care.

I attempted to interrupt the humping after it had gone on for a reasonable length of time with a water bottle so that I wouldn't have to get in the middle of things (noise making was off-limits because Jay was asleep and I somehow totally forgot about my original plan of shaking the crap out of the crib to startle them). Normie cares far more about humping than he does about getting wet, heh - the water only got his attention if I inadvertently got him in the eye with it. Poor guy. The whole top of his head was wet by the end of the bonding session - what a stubborn little bunn!

Because he was still quite hump-happy, I was going to hold off on introducing him to Nala officially... she had been watching us from the pen the entire time, though, and looked quite sad about being left out. I decided it was best not to feed that negative emotion by failing to include her.

I had planned to do a 1-on-1 with him and Nala when they first met face to face; however, I had also planned to wait out his hormones. Since I was deciding to jump the gun, I decided it might also be best to add Nala without removing Gaz so that Normie's humping would be split between two potential targets.

I picked Nala up, then realized I didn't know exactly where I'd put my heavy work gloves, so I had to rummage around for them while holding her and then get them on (while still holding her). Fun times. I was half-expecting the worst, though, and I really didn't want to take a full-force bite!

I put Nala in with the other two, and that's when my girls decided to throw me off *completely*!

I set her in there and she thumped as Normie came up to sniff her... however, I determined based on subsequent thumps that the first one wasn't about Norm - it was about being in the crib. Norm sniffed her while she looked for an exit, then he started to hump her. I was astounded when she ignored it! I interrupted him after a few seconds, by which time she seemed mildly annoyed but not inclined to do anything about it. He turned his attention to Gazzles while Nala periscoped and sniffed for an exit.

I can't help wondering if Nala's presence played a significant role in Gaz's change of behavior - suddenly Gaz was trying to get away from Norm's humping. The big shock was when Norm turned his attention back towards Nala and all of a sudden Gaz mounted him and starting humping him voraciously!  Thankfully, Norm didn't mind... I was a bit concerned with how adamantly Gaz was trying to make that point about dominance, though.

I broke that up and got them back to neutral positions. Nala proceeded to work on seeing if she could get her head stuck between the crib bars; I kept a worried eye on that while simultaneously making sure the hump-fight between the other two stayed under control.

At some point, there was a 3-way-hump - Nala was facing a corner, looking for that exit, when Norm started humping her and Gaz promptly started humping him! I got right on splitting that up, heh... and as I was separating them, Nala finally succeeded in squeezing between the crib bars and escaping to the floor. I let the other two discuss who was going to be on top while I rounded her up.

Nala had obviously had her fill, so I put her back and let Norm and Gaz have a little more time together. Even with Nala gone, Gaz was still on her role-reversal kick... after a couple minutes, the fact that Norm was politely requesting to be the humpER instead of the humpEE looked like it was suddenly about to piss Gazzles off something fierce - she had that angry, I'm gonna bite someone look in her eye - so I quickly pulled them apart, pet them both until they melted a bit and then returned everyone to their pens.

So... yeah. I thought I knew what to expect, but I was about as wrong as could be. I'm starting to get a little concerned about this whole thing - I didn't realize Gaz was so desperate for an opportunity to prove her ability to be dominant over someone. Norm may very well be on board with that once his hormones are gone but at the same time, I feel like (based on "conversations" from their respective pens, not tonight's meet-and-hump) Normie and Nala really connect on an intellectual level in a way that Nala and Gaz just don't. Nala truly seems to have a genius-level IQ and mindset - more often than not, you can tell by looking at her that her mind is going a mile a minute, pondering the universe or whatever it is that bunnies ponder. Her mind is rarely idle. Gazzles prefers to keep things simple for the most part - she'll loaf it up and zone out, content with what she's got. I've always suspected that Nala tires of Gazzle's simplicity from time to time; I think Normie is exactly what she's been needing - a companion with a few philosophical musings to offer when he's not doing the usual naughty, destructive bunny stuff... I just worry that Gaz could feel left out and cause problems over it, though. Hopefully I'm over-thinking it all!

I'll play it by ear tomorrow, but I'm inclined to wait out Norm's hormones a little longer unless the bunnies give me a reason not to. Perhaps if he's not trying to hump everyone, Gaz won't insist on humping him to put him in his place. I think there's a good chance that they can figure out a nice group dynamic where no one feels left out.

Also, it seems I need to figure out a new "neutral territory" set-up or invest in some chicken wire or something - now that Nala knows she can get out of the crib, she'll go right for that exit every time unless I thwart her.


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## JBun (Jan 16, 2014)

It seems like your life is spent thwarting naughty animals, lol.

That's a great bonding account. They do have a tendency to surprise us, don't they. I was quite surprised too, with my trio attempt right now. I never expected my super grumpy bun, to put up with a newcomer, and never thought Penny would decide to be the submissive one. We think we know them so well, then they go and do crazy things like this to us 

I think the introduction was good. Now your buns won't be wondering so much about the other bun(s) on the other side of the room. I'm far from an expert on bonding, but have one thought, which you are probably already going to do, but I was thinking that it might be good to hold off on more bonding attempts til he is a little more settled. You don't want your girls forming an opinion about him at this point when his behavior is hormonally driven, and not what he will necessarily end up being like. Basically you don't want them deciding they don't like that humpy boy, when that's not his true personality. But as you know, it's just info to consider, and listening to your gut is often the best way to follow.

I'm glad they got to meet. That moment always makes me a bit nervous. It's like ok, I really hope I don't have break up rabbits that decide they want to kill each other. Fun times


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## zombiesue (Jan 16, 2014)

To me, it sounds like it went really really well.

For super hump-happy buns, I read a tip once. It said to take a stuffed animal and rub it like crazy against the humpees, and then put it in the cage of the humper. Let him work out some of his humping frenzy on it and THEN start bonding. I've never tried it and have no idea if it works haha. But if it continues to be a problem it might be worth a shot.


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## Imbrium (Jan 16, 2014)

The count of naughties vs humans in our apartment is 9:2... the count of other naughties vs me is 10:1... so yeah, I spend a lot of time thwarting!

They're still just as curious, lol... and Normie's even more desperate to be with his new "girlfriends". I tried to explain to him that his boy parts have been surgically removed and I am not in the business of helping anyone assemble a harem. He responded by pawing at the screen door, begging to get into the living room. I ripped up, washed, and distributed a head of green leaf lettuce as a bed time snack and everyone was suddenly far too concerned with how awesome lettuce is to care about anything else.

I think I may try a little bit of bonding time between him and Nala in the next day or two, but with the way things were headed at the end of the session, I'll definitely be waiting a week or so to try Normie and Gaz again. Tonight's session was, in large part, about gauging hormones as I had introduced him to Gaz 16 days ago and all he had in mind was humping - this is the first time since then that he's been able to interact with either girl without a barrier between them. I figured he'd still be hormonal, but it was nice to see that he wasn't as bad as before. I mainly want to do one more mini-session with him and Nala because Gazzles was supposed to serve as my "litmus test" for hormones - ie the bunny who wouldn't get offended if the answer to "Is he still hormonal?" was "Yes." With Gaz turning the tables and humping him as intensely as he humped her during their first session a couple weeks ago, I'd like a little more information to help me decide whether I should use Nala or Gaz for the hump-test when I try again in a week or two.

I really wish those darn hormones would GTFO already, though!! I've been venturing into woodworking lately and am about to start a project that involves making a very large sunken litter-box (ie top entry rather than side entry) - it drives me nuts how the girls pull so much hay out of their manger into the litter box, then from there, spread it out across most of the pen... so the new litter-box (or rather, litter box encasement of sorts) will be a thwartation device aimed at forcing them to keep the hay IN the box. I only have to build it once and it seems best to save that one creation so that it can double as a neutral item when I eventually (hopefully) move them all in together. That means until they're all bonded, I have to put up with hay ALL over the floor of the pen even though I've already got a solution lined up ><


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## Imbrium (Jan 16, 2014)

zombiesue said:


> To me, it sounds like it went really really well.
> 
> For super hump-happy buns, I read a tip once. It said to take a stuffed animal and rub it like crazy against the humpees, and then put it in the cage of the humper. Let him work out some of his humping frenzy on it and THEN start bonding. I've never tried it and have no idea if it works haha. But if it continues to be a problem it might be worth a shot.



I could definitely see that working for some; however, I'm quite doubtful that Normie would be fooled. While many bunns hump indiscriminately (your foot/leg, stuffed animals, furniture, you name it), he has never ONCE appeared to even consider humping anything other than a real, live female rabbit.

I did get a couple stuffies at Goodwill a while back that are vaguely rabbit-sized, though - I may see if I can dig one up just to test the theory .


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## Chrisdoc (Jan 16, 2014)

I did laugh at some of your bonding description, I was thinking of the look on your face when they act exactly the opposite of what you're expecting. I think Nala is a plotter, Houdini is like that, sometimes when I see him looking over the top of the xpen or sitting on top of his cage thinking, I can almost hear the cogs of that brain turning, sure Nala is the same. Never sure what he's planning next. 

Probably best to give them a break until his hormones settle properly. I can't remember what humping is like, mine haven't done it since they were done. 

Watching how this develops with interest.


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## zombiesue (Jan 16, 2014)

I hope it works for you LOL.


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## Aubrisita (Jan 16, 2014)

Oh dear, reading that made me chuckle. I can only imagine the scene. Keeping my fingers crossed, I hope Normie can play nice with his two sisters.


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## pani (Jan 16, 2014)

Oh my! That was a fun story to read first thing in the morning. 

Sounds like although they're not there yet, they'll eventually be able to form a nice strong bond with each other. If only Norm's hormones weren't raging... I'll be dealing with those same hormones from Felix for the next month or so before he can formally meet new bun, arhh!


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## Imbrium (Jan 17, 2014)

Chrisdoc said:


> I think Nala is a plotter, Houdini is like that, sometimes when I see him looking over the top of the xpen or sitting on top of his cage thinking, I can almost hear the cogs of that brain turning, sure Nala is the same. Never sure what he's planning next.



God, is she! I see Gazzles loafing around the pen, thinking about what she's going to eat and/or destroy next and other generic bunny thoughts... but gaze into Nala's eyes, and it looks like she's contemplating the freaking universe! That bunny's got a brain that could put a lot of humans to shame - she's always giving it a workout. You can literally see her looking around the room and breaking everything down sometimes; moments where she's not thinking deep thoughts are pretty rare. She's got a soul too big for her body, too. I can't put anything past that genius bunny, as she'd automatically set about proving me wrong!

Nala is "complicated" and it's probably my favorite thing about her - she reminds me a lot of myself; I feel bad for her sometimes, because I can't imagine being stuck in a bunny body with no outlet for my creative side. I sometimes wonder if that's not why she's so destructive sometimes, why she manipulates Gazzles, why she'll bully the cats every chance she gets...


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## Chrisdoc (Jan 17, 2014)

I know how you feel. I look at the other two together and they´re either sleeping or just loafing about but Houdini is hardly ever still. He always seems to be active and sometimes, I think maybe I should teach him some tricks or give him some interactive toys to keep him busy. I would hate to see what these two were capable of doing if they ever get together. Bunny domination lol.


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## Imbrium (Jan 17, 2014)

Normie doesn't quite seem to be on Nala's level, but he's fairly close to it. It'll be interesting to see him and Nala together for real! I suspect she'll be a real mind-opener for him.


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## Chrisdoc (Jan 17, 2014)

He could be a quick learner, I'd keep my eye on that pair. The bunnies could end up taking over in your household lol.


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## Imbrium (Jan 17, 2014)

Why do you think they live in a pen instead of free-ranging, lol? When we tried to have them loose, they thought they ran the place! I'm fairly certain that opposable thumbs are the only thing keeping Jay and I in power around here.


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## Apebull (Jan 18, 2014)

Imbrium said:


> I'm fairly certain that opposable thumbs are the only thing keeping Jay and I in power around here.



:roflmao: Like you are actually in power LOL!!!


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## Imbrium (Jan 19, 2014)

Apebull said:


> :roflmao: Like you are actually in power LOL!!!



Well, we're in control at any rate... as much as one can be, that is. I mean, we can pick every one of our nine naughties up and lock them in a cage or pen or bathroom or whatever's applicable and there's nothing they can do about it (other than whine their butts off, if it's one of the cats). We have control over all the food and treats, too. At the very least, we've got the illusion of power!

Of course, my day goes something like this:

:sweep ..... :bunnybutt: :bunnybutt: :bunny18 :hiding: :soapbox ..... :vacuum:

~ Two bunnies giving me the butt
~ One bunny following me around and licking me to death
~ A psychotic "kitten" vacillating between hiding/lurking and bouncing off the walls
~ A nearly 16 year old cat fiending like a crack addict for treats, getting underfoot, begging, yowling, you name it
~ Me wondering what the heck the point is of cleaning floors, seeing as I sweep or vacuum at least once or twice a day and an hour later, I'm stepping on hay, bunny poop, cat food and god knows what else on my way through the living room


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## pani (Jan 19, 2014)

I never vacuumed much before, but after getting Felix I vacuum more often but it's even more pointless! My floor is always going to have at least one or two stray pieces of hay or bunny poops.


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## Chrisdoc (Jan 19, 2014)

I sweep, vac,pick up and there is always hay and a stray poop or bits of torn cardboard or fur, Bandys of course, stuck to everything. Something I have learned to live with and love.


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## Imbrium (Jan 26, 2014)

I forgot to ever post the couple of pics from the last bonding session...







^ Shows the portable crib I tried to use as neutral territory, with Normie and Gazzles in it






^ Another pic of Normie and Gaz, shortly before the hump-fest commenced

I was trying to get a pic of the Gaz on Normie on Nala humping (hilarious, btw), but Nala ruined it by escaping before I could snap the picture.


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## pani (Jan 26, 2014)

How do Nala and Gaz react to the smell of Norm on either one of them? If I approach Felix and I smell like Clem, he tends to chin all over my hand until it's covered in his scent again.


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## Imbrium (Jan 26, 2014)

Nala sniffed the heck out of Gaz after Gaz and Normie had their first face-to-face and she came back with that "freshly humped by a strange bunny" smell, but Nala eventually decided this was acceptable (I watched that like a hawk until I was sure all was good). Beyond that, I haven't noticed anything. I don't often go straight from petting one to the other, though, and they can smell each other all day long since they're not very far apart. I suspect they're all very used to me smelling of a lot of other animals, what with the cats and gliders (and none of them have ever been chinners).


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## pani (Jan 26, 2014)

That's a good point! Since coming home with me, Felix hasn't been near any other animals. He's always been a crazy chinner, too, which doesn't help!


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## zombiesue (Jan 26, 2014)

Those are CUTE pictures.

Sometimes I kick the rabbit poop back at them. See how they like it. LOL


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## Aubrisita (Jan 26, 2014)

Those are very cute pictures.


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## Chrisdoc (Jan 26, 2014)

They do look cute together, I have a goodfeeling about these three


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## Azerane (Jan 28, 2014)

Afraid I don't have time to do a proper catch up, but the photos of them together are adorable!  Love that chocolately-sable colour or whatever you want to call it


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## Imbrium (Jan 29, 2014)

Had my first TRUE bonding session today. It was... interesting. Nala's far more flighty than I would've thought she'd be towards another bunny a mere month ago (tomorrow is Normie's one month "gotcha" day). Honestly, I felt like we were in limbo - not getting anywhere, but not really losing ground, either. Nala and Normie definitely have some issues to work out; Gaz mostly loafed it up in the makeshift litter box today. She did spaz out and hump Nala briefly, though. Fortunately, Nala was very forgiving.

Nala's really a lot more complex and emotionally fragile than I once believed... I think moving in with Jay and the cats changed her perspective somewhat - she's no longer the big fish in a small pond; she's kind of "medium" now. She seems a bit unsure of herself with Norm; I think she *wants* to lay down the law but doesn't quite know how to do it as he's bull-headed and oblivious to subtlety.

I actually videotaped the *entire* session... it's going to take forever to upload to YouTube, though, so I'll have to post it later. While I imagine almost all of you have better things to do with an hour of your time than watch the full session (which is mostly boring with random bursts of "knock it the heck off!"), you don't ever really come across lengthy videos of bonding sessions (especially with trios) so I figure it may interest one or two folks who are looking to get a better feel for bonding.


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## zombiesue (Jan 29, 2014)

Ignoring is always a good sign, I'd say you are, in fact, gaining ground even if it doesn't feel like it.

Try a longer session and see what happens (2+ hours)


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## Chrisdoc (Jan 29, 2014)

Didn´t sound like it went badly so I´d call that a plus. I think they will take time to figure things out, hopefully Nala will be clever about this and let Normie think he has the upper hand when he hasn´t. I think Gaz is just content to have them about. 

I love your videos so will have a look, I know what you mean, it takes ages to upload onto youtube but I love watching the videos of the buns I know, they always look so different in motion and you can see their little personlities so much better. :nod


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## Imbrium (Jan 30, 2014)

Yeah, I wouldn't say it went well, per se, but it didn't go badly. Kinda... neutral. It'll take some time for them to work things out, but I think they will.

I've been sick and spent all day sleeping, but I've started uploading the second half the video... watching the first half now and trying to do some edits to fix the lighting, then I can post that.


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## Imbrium (Jan 31, 2014)

Stupid first half the video just doesn't want to embed; I give up. Second video embeds just fine, so I dunno what the deal is with the first half.

http://youtu.be/Pfp5CLTx-kE

[ame]http://youtu.be/68WmdfQLGSI[/ame]


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## zombiesue (Feb 2, 2014)

Imho, this would go faster if you were less involved. Like, way less


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## Aubrisita (Feb 2, 2014)

I dont have anything to add on the bonding front, as I have never had any experience wuth it. I CAN say that your buns are absolutely adorable, Normies ears are awesome. I too enjoy watching your videos, thanks for making them. Continued good luck for the bonding.


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## Imbrium (Feb 20, 2014)

I totally owe you guys, like, a buttload of updates... and numerous videos... I'll get to it when my sanity allows, lol. The TLDR is that there's still some issues to smooth out and it's utterly *hilarious* when Nala popcorns; however, things have taken some interesting turns.

I think Norm's actually going to end up top bunn . I'm convinced that Gazzles will be at the bottom again, but she's refusing to accept it still. Nala, who has seemed to grow and mature a great deal both mentally and emotionally since our "family" expanded last May, seems almost relieved to no longer be the alpha bunny... almost like she was running herself ragged trying to be in charge of everyone and everything (including the cats) and when she suddenly embraced the idea of letting Normie run the show, it was almost like a weight lifted off of her - she looked SO relaxed the other night when she was snuggled up against him and licking the crap out of him!

Norm is still periodically humping everyone, but it's changed from hormonal humping to boredom and dominance humping (boredom as in "nothing's happened for a while now... I think I'll instigate things with some humping"). Nala still ignores it; Gaz has gotten less uppity about it and seems to be begrudgingly accepting Norman as outranking her... but then she turns around and tries to overthrow Nala for second place by humping the heck out of her (which Nala still ignores). For the most part during bonding sessions, Normie oscillates between flopping and humping, Gazzles loafs but periodically gets a wild streak and Nala makes a "Cartman" face at them when she's not periscoping around to search for a way to escape the bonding pen or popping straight up in the air like popcorn because Norm is getting too frisky for her liking.

All in all, I think we're getting reasonably close to having a seriously marathon session followed by moving in together.


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## PaGal (Feb 21, 2014)

It sounds like things have been entertaining at your home and like things are going wonderfully between the three of them.


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## Chrisdoc (Feb 21, 2014)

What a turn up, who'd have guessed but glad to see that they are making great progress and will soon be a family, how excited am I lol.

Yes, pics at least are required and a video would be great. You have been kept busy with other things, hope you have some normality right now. 

Look forward to seeing these three together


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## JBun (Feb 23, 2014)

Sounds like things are going great! That is so funny about Nala liking not having to be the boss bunny anymore. Oh, and her popcorning. I bet that's hilarious to watch.


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## Imbrium (Feb 25, 2014)

So yeah... the bad news is, I hard-core failed at this whole "blog" thing, seeing as the whole purpose is to provide updates for something as it's going on. The good news is that as of last Saturday, I have a bonded trio. You wouldn't believe it, but I actually missed the HUGE turning point that sealed the deal officially! I was going to sleep in the bunny pen for the whole night just in case (went to bed in the late afternoon, actually - sleeping schedule was off, as usual) but got cold and uncomfortable after an hour or so and decided to snuggle up in an actual bed. I didn't want to end the marathon session when we were 99% there, so I left the bedroom door open and asked Jay to keep an ear on them.

I knew he'd be going to bed in 4-5 hours but I was exhausted and didn't feel like giving him a run-down on what I thought he should do when he did based on where the bunnies were at when he was ready to sleep, so I said f--- it and went to sleep. I'm paranoid as hell/very overprotective where my bunns are concerned and he has virtually no "learned" knowledge about bunny bonding (ie he's never done a lick of research)... but he's spent the last nine months watching my bunnies like a hawk, trying to get into their heads and figure them out - as a result, he's a skilled interpreter of "bunny language". He also watched a lot of their bonding sessions with me and we've talked about all of them afterward. Between those two things combined, I realized I finally felt 110% comfortable leaving a major decision that could affect my bunnies safety completely up to him... so I did.

Anyway, I'll get into the details later, but the 1% hesitation I had was that Normie's "I just don't give a f---" attitude still hadn't been put in check by the girls - Gaz had tried countless times by humping the heck out of him, but apparently he didn't respect her authority... and Nala was continuing to tolerate him in "silence" when he overlooked subtle cues that she didn't like what he was up to. I kept waiting to see her snap and put him in his place and was starting to think it might never happen (hence the thought that Normie might end up top bunn). Turns out, she just had a *really* long fuse - around 11 pm on Saturday, Jay walked out into the living room and caught her putting him in check! Jay had also felt like that's what desperately needed to happen with the three, so once it did, he decided he could join me in bed.

The bunns have been together ever since


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## PaGal (Feb 26, 2014)

That's wonderful! So what's it like having a bonded trio?


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## Chrisdoc (Feb 26, 2014)

I am impressed and that is such good news. As Denise says, what´s it like having your trio. Can´t wait to see what they get up to together :laughsmiley:

Can´t wait to see photos of the happy trio.


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## Aubrisita (Feb 26, 2014)

Congrats, that is super exciting!!! I can only imagine all the things they are going to do together.


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## Azerane (Feb 26, 2014)

That's fantastic, I'm so glad to hear that they've bonded and are now living happily together  Congratulations!


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## JBun (Feb 27, 2014)

That's so great! How funny that Nala put the boy in his place. I'm glad it all worked out, and better than my trio attempt


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