# Unknown breed



## thumperdude95 (Jul 5, 2009)

Hi

My rabbit Thumper is an unknown breed as the people who live opposite me found him in their back garden, and since I already had a rabbit, they gave him to me (after putting adverts in the local paper and radio station). So I was wondering if any of you could tell me what you think he is.







Cheers Thumperdude.


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## peppa and georgie (Jul 5, 2009)

I am not good on breeds but all the same he is beautiful and the picture is amazing xxx I had a similar bunny once called sparky, but he wasnt as fluffy x Sorry i couldnt help someone will be able to xx


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## SweetSassy (Jul 5, 2009)

:adorable:

I'm not good with breeds either. Sorry. I just had to say, He's a handsome bunny!!  ...April


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## ARobinson (Jul 5, 2009)

Does his fur feel like velvet? It's hard to say, but from the photos I would guess Mini Rex or even Mini Rex mix. He's cute!

-----

Annie


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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Jul 5, 2009)

*ARobinson wrote: *


> Does his fur feel like velvet? It's hard to say, but from the photos I would guess Mini Rex or even Mini Rex mix. He's cute!
> 
> -----
> 
> Annie


I don't know my rabbit breeds but that is not a rex. But he is Very cute!


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## ARobinson (Jul 5, 2009)

Obviously you don't. That rabbit very much resembles a Mini Rex or Mini Rex mix, with poor quality fur... As I have a small herd of them now, and have bred them in the past, I think I know what a Mini Rex looks like. Thank you.

-----

Annie


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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Jul 5, 2009)

Ok, I own a Mini Rex Thank You. And I think any good breeder can tell you that doesn't look like one. The fur is WAY to long.

*ARobinson wrote: *


> Obviously you don't. That rabbit very much resembles a Mini Rex or Mini Rex mix, with poor quality fur... As I have a small herd of them now, and have bred them in the past, I think I know what a Mini Rex looks like. Thank you.
> 
> -----
> 
> Annie


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## thumperdude95 (Jul 5, 2009)

Hey,

I don't want you to argue over it, it's what you think he is, not what he is, no one will ever actually know for sure, and what part of the fur is poor quality?

Cheers Thumperdude


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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Jul 5, 2009)

Ok. I don't know much my breeds but I know a rex when I see one.


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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Jul 5, 2009)

thumperdude95 Im sorry about the Arguing your thread. Your bunny does look very cute!!!


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## ARobinson (Jul 5, 2009)

What I mean, is, *IF* he is a purebred Mini Rex (NOT saying he is, that is an IF), his fur is too long and doesn't look to have the right texture. Of course, we are all going by pictures, so who knows? Photos can lie. 

In the end, he is just a pet, right? So it doesn't really matter what he is. He's cute. 



*thumperdude95 wrote: *


> Hey,
> 
> I don't want you to argue over it, it's what you think he is, not what he is, no one will ever actually know for sure, and what part of the fur is poor quality?
> 
> Cheers Thumperdude


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## Flashy (Jul 5, 2009)

I think he's lovely 

Do his ears ever sort of look like 'aeroplane ears' so they stick out sideways? There is something in him that sort of looks like there could be lop in there to me, but hey, I know nothing


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## irishbunny (Jul 5, 2009)

Doesn't look like a rex or mini rex to me, head is the wrong shape and fur is the wrong texture, definatly a mix if he does have rex or mini rex in him.

thumperdude- Sometimes it is impossible to tell the breed of a rabbit because they are too mixed, but it is a gorgeus rabbit! Mixes are great because they are unique


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## fuzz16 (Jul 5, 2009)

i was gonna say that to, about the lop. his face kinda has a holland lop look to it and his ears seem wide too.


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## ARobinson (Jul 5, 2009)

That is *NOT* a lop. Even a Holland Lop with the tighest crown on the planet doesn't have ears that errect and that prick forward like this bunny, and his face is too "pointed" for a lop. Lops should have very round faces and wide heads. I would be trulyshocked and dumbfoundedif any of the Holland breeders agreed that he had lop in him... 

-----

Annie


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## Flashy (Jul 5, 2009)

Like I said, I know nothing  But I have definitely seen a lop cross that looks similar so I was just throwing it out there.

It's all cool though, I'm not bothered if I'm wrong, at the end of the day, he is a beautiful guy, whatever his heritage.


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## ARobinson (Jul 5, 2009)

Nice quote in your signature. 

I'm not bothered if I am wrong; it is very possible I *AM* wrong. I can live with that, it's happened before, it will happen again. Ican say I *AM* bothered by know-it-alls who openly admit that they *DONT* know what they are talking about, and then keep arguing it just because they have or have had one in the past. Since when does owning a particular breed of anything make one an expert? 

-----

Annie


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## Flashy (Jul 5, 2009)

Thanks  It's good isn't it. Very useful, I've found it to be.

Maybe it's just a time to throw out suggestions and speculate but not debate per se? Because really, none of us know (unless Pam Nock arrives, because she will know), we are just saying what we see with our own individual eyes and experiences, and all those are valued opinions and suggestions 

Personally, I can't see the rex in him, doesn't mean it's not there, just means I can't see it, but you can. That's cool, I respect that. The more differing opinions I see the better, in my eyes, because I learn more, just a shame when those with differing opinions can't always appreciate that.


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## BSAR (Jul 5, 2009)

Annie calm down! There is NO need to argue over this.
I raise, breed and show Mini Rex and I have seen Rex and this rabbit is defnintly not either one.

Thumperdude: I can't quite put my finger on what he may be right now but I will look in my standard and see if I can come up with any idea of what he may be. 
But he is defintley one gorgeous bun!


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## irishbunny (Jul 5, 2009)

*ARobinson wrote: *


> That is *NOT* a lop. Even a Holland Lop with the tighest crown on the planet doesn't have ears that errect and that prick forward like this bunny, and his face is too "pointed" for a lop. Lops should have very round faces and wide heads. I would be trulyshocked and dumbfoundedif any of the Holland breeders agreed that he had lop in him...
> 
> -----
> 
> Annie


Maybe not a holland lop, but other kinds of lops should not be ruled out, I have a lionlop who was lop eared and then lost her lop ears as she grew, now she holds her ears just like that


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## ARobinson (Jul 5, 2009)

I can definitely appreciate others opinions. I cannot, and will not, tolerate an ammature (not in reference to you) chiming in and saying flat outNo, that's wrong.

As for the lop that you see in him, I don't. And here's my reasoning behind it: the crown is far, far too tight on that rabbit. See how the ears prick forward? Even lops with super tight crowns and airplane ears can't prick their ears forward, but off to the sides instead. Does that make sense? I can see a bit of what you are saying in his face, because it isn't *as* pointed as Mini Rex tend to be, but it is still too pointed to be a lop. Lops tend to have very rounded out faces. He also has the bone of a rex type rabbit, not a lop. See his front legs? Very thin bone. 

Just some stuff to toss out there at ya. 



*Flashy wrote: *


> Personally, I can't see the rex in him, doesn't mean it's not there, just means I can't see it, but you can. That's cool, I respect that. The more differing opinions I see the better, in my eyes, because I learn more, just a shame when those with differing opinions can't always appreciate that.


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## BSAR (Jul 5, 2009)

Thumperdude how much doesThumper weigh?
How old is he?


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## Flashy (Jul 5, 2009)

I once saw a rabbit with amazing ears! Her ears went right forwards, upwards, backwards and also lopped over. she very much had full on rotation in her ears. She used to make me laugh because they were so funny. They weren't ears like I had ever seen before, but they were very expressive ears, lol.

I guess, with a mix, it could be bits of rex, bits of lop, bits of this, that and the other, so we could ALL be right  (or all be wrong )


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## irishbunny (Jul 5, 2009)

*ARobinson wrote: *


> I can definitely appreciate others opinions. I cannot, and will not, tolerate an ammature (not in reference to you) chiming in and saying flat outNo, that's wrong.
> 
> As for the lop that you see in him, I don't. And here's my reasoning behind it: the crown is far, far too tight on that rabbit. See how the ears prick forward? Even lops with super tight crowns and airplane ears can't prick their ears forward, but off to the sides instead. Does that make sense? I can see a bit of what you are saying in his face, because it isn't *as* pointed as Mini Rex tend to be, but it is still too pointed to be a lop. Lops tend to have very rounded out faces. He also has the bone of a rex type rabbit, not a lop. See his front legs? Very thin bone.
> 
> Just some stuff to toss out there at ya.


He still could have lop in him, like I said, I have a lionlop who holds her ears just like that, as she grew she changed and lost the way her ears lopped.

She is most definatly a mix though, she could have lot's of different types in her


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Jul 5, 2009)

*ARobinson wrote: *


> I'm not bothered if I am wrong; it is very possible I *AM* wrong. I can live with that, it's happened before, it will happen again. Ican say I *AM* bothered by know-it-alls who openly admit that they *DONT* know what they are talking about, and then keep arguing it just because they have or have had one in the past. Since when does owning a particular breed of anything make one an expert?
> 
> -----
> 
> Annie



I think maybe you should follow your own advice on this one.  

You said yourself that you own mini rex... So do a lot of other people on this forum. They're not the ones acting like the experts on the breed, you are. 



> I can definitely appreciate others opinions. I cannot, and will not, tolerate an ammature (not in reference to you) chiming in and saying flat outNo, that's wrong.





> That is *NOT* a lop.



Really? Because isn't that what you're doing? 

As for the breed, I can definitely say there is some lop in him. He hasabout the exactsame shape of head as my buck, Magic, who is a lop mix.  

Emily


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## ARobinson (Jul 5, 2009)

For all we know, he could have awide rangeof breeds in his background... One will never know. I did see some Dutch/Mini Rex mixes one time at a swapmeet that looked very similar to him... Another possibility?


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## Flashy (Jul 5, 2009)

Definitely another possibility, although, I know very little about the dutch gene and how the markings work within cross breeds to be honest.


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## BSAR (Jul 5, 2009)

Anyway back to the original subject.
From looking at Thumper and the breeds in my Standard I would say he has some lop in him for sure, and the shape of his head looks like a Florida White or a Beveren. 
But I'm not saying he has that in him, but it could be a possibility.


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## Flashy (Jul 5, 2009)

How does he weigh? (I know you already asked that BSAR).


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## ARobinson (Jul 5, 2009)

That rabbit looks a bit small to be a Beveren mix, but who knows? 

Who is to say that Thumper had purebred parents on both the dam and sires side? He could be a result of mixes for many, manygenerations... For all we know, he has ten different breeds behind him.


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## BSAR (Jul 5, 2009)

*Flashy wrote: *


> How does he weigh? (I know you already asked that BSAR).


Its okay there is no reply yet anyway.


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## katt (Jul 5, 2009)

from having a few mini rex/ lop breedings this guy looks like he could be part of the litter

we can tell that he is not full blooded rex or mini rex based on just a few points. the first being that he has a longer coat without the "velvet" texture, and the second being that his wiskers are straight (rex furred rabbits have curly wiskers, i have never seen or heard of one having straight ones).

and we can tell he isn't a full blooded lop either. while his head isn't the round look of a holland, or the chunky look of a mini or french lop it doesn't concern me. after breeding hollands and mini lops for around 7 years, i saw all face shapes. just because the standard says round head in holland doesn't mean that they all will have one (that would be like saying all asian people are short, all women at 5ft 6in will weigh between 114-150 pounds. these are all generalization about a person. the same applies to rabbits). the ears in the photo look slightly spaced apart, it could be the way the photo looks, or it could be his ears. a lop/standard ear mix normally gives ears that aren't standard, or lop, they will normally be totally upright, but might have a slightly larger space inbetween them then a standard eared rabbit would. you might even notice the slight appearance of a crown. the ears will be held more outward and to the side then straight up.

the fact is your rabbit looks healthy and adorable, so breed doesn't really matter one bit. but if i were to own him, and choose to lable a breed on him, i would go with mini rex/lop mix. both rabbits are extremly common breeds, so the chance of finding a rabbit that is this mix is rather high.

that is all just my opinion and what i have found.


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## thumperdude95 (Jul 5, 2009)

*BSAR wrote: *


> Thumperdude how much doesThumper weigh?
> How old is he?



Hi,

I don't know how old he is, as he is a stray that we got given him. As for weighing, I'l have a go at putting him ona pair of scales tomorrow night.

As for everybody else, don't argue, this thread wasn't supposed to cause arguments, it was for you to throw ideas around and generally just talk about what you think.

Cheers Thumperdude


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## Flashy (Jul 5, 2009)

:| We haven't all be arguing. there was a misunderstanding at the start but some of us were actually just doing as you wanted, which was tossing ideas around.


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## ARobinson (Jul 5, 2009)

Sounds good to me 



*katt wrote: *


> the fact is your rabbit looks healthy and adorable, so breed doesn't really matter one bit. but if i were to own him, and choose to lable a breed on him, i would go with mini rex/lop mix. both rabbits are extremly common breeds, so the chance of finding a rabbit that is this mix is rather high.


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## thumperdude95 (Jul 5, 2009)

Cool.

Feel free to do just that.


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## ARobinson (Jul 5, 2009)

The nice thing about having a mix breed, is, you can kind of make him whatever you want him to be! We all see something different in him, and in the end, who is to say which of us are right or wrong? We will never know exactly what he is, but we can toss out best guesses...

Have you visited ARBA's website? You can click on "Breeds" and look at all the photos, see what YOU think he might be a mix of...

-----

Annie


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## maherwoman (Jul 5, 2009)

I have to add my :twocents, as he looks stunningly like my Fiver, who we believe is a large Holland Lop.


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## Jessica and Crew (Jul 5, 2009)

To me, I would go with a mini rex/holland lop or even a rex/mini lop mix (depending on size). I have seen many mini rex mixes and that is how their fur appears. With that said, I doubt he's a purebred. Also, "cahmere lops" (which are holland lop/mini rex mix) are something quite a few people are trying to make and he looks like a first generation of this breed. Cute, but definately mixed =) My very first bunny was a mixed breed - everyone had different opinions on what he was, but who cares - Charlie gave me 10 of his 11 years and that's all that mattered =)


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## bunnyrainbows (Jul 5, 2009)

Awww, he looks like my Scouty Poo! He's a netherland dwarf/ mini rex mix. He's such a cute bunny.


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## ARobinson (Jul 5, 2009)

*:thumbup* Agreed!



*Jessica and Crew wrote: *


> My very first bunny was a mixed breed - everyone had different opinions on what he was, but who cares - Charlie gave me 10 of his 11 years and that's all that mattered =)


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## TinysMom (Jul 5, 2009)

What an interesting discussion we've had going on here....and such a cute bunny too.

I would like to remind all of our members of our "forum decorum" policy - and I will include a link to it. I am posting some of it here...

*Unacceptable Behavior (Subject toWarnings):*

- name calling

- ridiculing of another's opinion

- failure to 'agree to disagree'

- overly abrasive or negative posts on any topic

- personal vendettas



You can find the full policy here.




To those who tried to diffuse the situation - I say a hearty....:goodjob


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## SilverBirchRabbitry (Jul 5, 2009)

He definitly has holland lop in him but I would have to agree he loooks like he has Beveren in him aswell. He still could be young and growing. But who knows. I personally don't see the rex in him. JMO. 

He is very cute though


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## TinysMom (Jul 5, 2009)

I sort of wonder if the rabbit could be from an older-style lionhead (single mane) that didn't get the mane - crossed with a mini-rex. 

I have had several lionheads (the older style ones) that lost their manes and looked a bit like that. (I also had three rex/lionhead crosses).


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## SilverBirchRabbitry (Jul 5, 2009)

^ Agrees with Peg, that is true, I have never though about that. But it sue does look like it


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Jul 5, 2009)

*SilverBirchRabbitry wrote: *


> He definitly has holland lop in him


He 99% for sure does NOT have Holland Lop in him. I can't believe so many people are coming up with that! LOL!

He has very light bone, large ears, and a narrower, snipier face than Hollands do. Although a mix could be from anything, I can nearly guarantee you there is no purebred Holland anywhere in his close history. I do raise them and have seen HL mixes from other people, and the Holland chunkiness, width, and ear length just doesn't warp to that degree.

I agree that he looks very much like a Rex mix. Since rex fur is recessive, he will not have the short, dense fur of a rex. But his body type and funny density do suggest that a rex mix is very probable.


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## pamnock (Jul 5, 2009)

*ARobinson wrote: *


> That is *NOT* a lop. Even a Holland Lop with the tighest crown on the planet doesn't have ears that errect and that prick forward like this bunny, and his face is too "pointed" for a lop. Lops should have very round faces and wide heads. I would be trulyshocked and dumbfoundedif any of the Holland breeders agreed that he had lop in him...
> 
> -----
> 
> Annie



Having bred Hollands for over 20 years (and my son being one of the former top 20 breeders in the nation), I can say that there is certainlyHollandLop resemblance. I've had purebred Hollands with _very _tight crowns that strongly resembled the rabbit in question. Not all Hollands have good show type. Some have very erect ears, and lack the desired roundness to the head.

I don't see any resemblance to a Mini Rex. Too "cheeky" The ears are also wide and appear to have the classic Holland thickness.



Pam


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## SweetSassy (Jul 5, 2009)

This poor bunny will never know what breed he is. But as long as he is happy and healthy, thats all that matters


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## ARobinson (Jul 5, 2009)

While I understand and agree that not all Hollands have great show type - neither do Mini Rex, for that matter - I can say this... If I ever ran across a Holland Lop that had a crown so tight it resembled the rabbit in question - *I* would question the lop being a purebred! Sorry, but it's true.

I've seen many, many Hollands; when I raised them with my ex-husband, we started off with some pretty sorry stock before culling and bringing in top of the line rabbits and going on to win RIS with a homebred black HL doe... Through the hundreds of lops I had seen or had, I NEVER saw a crown that sorry.  Yes, I had rabbits with super tight crowns,airplane ears, and ears that stood straight up - BUT NEVER FACED FORWARD like that one. So the rabbit has thick ears... Many breeds do. My Netherland Dwarfs do. Does that mean the rabbit in question has ND in him too?

Look at that rabbits bone. Does that speak Holland Lop to you? I sure would hope not. Look at it's face... Pointed. Yes, there is a veryGOOD possibility there is lop mixed in there somewhere... But Iagree with OakRidge - there is no lop in his immediate parents, at the very least.

JMO.



*pamnock wrote: *


> *ARobinson wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Having bred Hollands for over 20 years (and my son being one of the former top 20 breeders in the nation), I can say that there is certainlyHollandLop resemblance. I've had purebred Hollands with _very _tight crowns that strongly resembled the rabbit in question. Not all Hollands have good show type. Some have very erect ears, and lack the desired roundness to the head.
> ...


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## TinysMom (Jul 5, 2009)

*pamnock wrote: *


> *ARobinson wrote: *
> 
> 
> > That is *NOT* a lop. Even a Holland Lop with the tighest crown on the planet doesn't have ears that errect and that prick forward like this bunny, and his face is too "pointed" for a lop. Lops should have very round faces and wide heads. I would be trulyshocked and dumbfoundedif any of the Holland breeders agreed that he had lop in him...
> ...



Pam,

Thank you for coming in and sharing your thoughts on this. It is greatly appreciated.

For those who might not know - Pam not only has breed Holland Lops for years and years - but she's also an ARBA Judge who has studied a great deal about rabbits and from things I've heard - she's an often-requested judge on the Eastern Coast....her expertise is valued that much. We are so fortunate that she is able to come in on discussions like this and help us out - she is one very very busy woman!

I think one thing we can all agree on is that the rabbit is not a purebred but a mix of some sort.


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## Pipp (Jul 5, 2009)

Hey Thumperdude, can you put your location in your profile? Breeds and standards vary from region to region. 

Given your use of 'advert' and other terms, I would think you're in the UK, I don't think they use the term Hollands there, but I'll leave that to the Brits and the breeders. 

Meanwhile, I'd like to apologize for not nipping the misunderstanding in the bud immediately. All posters are human, someone may get their feathers ruffled over a perceived slight and respond acerbically, but this isn't the usual for this forum at all, we are definitely not a high-school kind of a board.  

There's been great input from pros, hobby breeders and pet slaves alike, and most are in agreement, and everybody who isn't has agreed to disagree. 

I'm sure more opinions will be forthcoming based on your location and more info. 

I'll add my opinion -- he's a cross between cute and gorgeous.  


sas :bunnydance:


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## tori (Jul 5, 2009)

I think Sas' guess wins!

He definitely is a cutie that's for sure


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## Erins Rabbits (Jul 6, 2009)

Bottom line is- He's a mutt. 
And I entirely agree with Annie. But that's besides the point.
He's cute!


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## thumperdude95 (Jul 6, 2009)

*Pipp wrote: *


> Given your use of 'advert' and other terms, I would think you're in the UK, I don't think they use the term Hollands there, but I'll leave that to the Brits and the breeders.


Hi,

Yes, I am from the UK. In England the Holland lop is called a mini lop.

Will have a go at weighing him after it stops raining.

Cheers Thumperdude.


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## polly (Jul 6, 2009)

I would love to see a side view picture of him as the way his head is sitting makes it quite hard to see face type or body type which is making it more difficult to get an idea of breeds in him however he is very sweet 

I can for sure tell you there is NO beveren in him at all he is far to small and face shape is wrong. poor shaped dwarf lops can have a face shape similar to that. they also have a narrower crown over here compared to mini and german lops and a pointier face. If say a dwarf lop was put through a mini rex (which we do not have a lot of over here tbh) then he would not get rex fur as its a recessive trait which I think Oakridge mentioned earlier. very hard to tell tbh

However to get a better idea It wouldbe betterto see a front on shot and a side view as well as his weight


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