# Help! Diagnose this young rabbit



## cornflakes (Oct 24, 2012)

Hi everyone, this is my first post and first time being here.
I don't own this rabbit but where I work, they have a couple rabbits and everyday I feed the (mom? dad? not sure) big white rabbit some veggies. The baby rabbit never eats and doesn't interact with me.

I noticed though for the past few weeks or maybe even couple months this baby rabbit seems to have developed a lot of scaly scabby patches along its ear, inner ear, and now it has spread to its back. It looks very flaky, crusty, and there's hair loss in that area too. 

I've never seen it scratch or itch whenever I'm there but I only seem them 2 to 3 times a day for about a minute each time as I go to feed.

I took a couple pictures on my phone camera so hopefully someone can see and tell me what it might be? Mites? 

They aren't my rabbits, but I love animals and feel compelled to do something about it if possible. I might decide to chip in and pay for whatever medicine the young rabbit needs. It's had this for a long time but only know I really felt like someone should do something for it.

There's a maintenance person who cleans out the pen everyday and restocks the food bowl and clean water...but they are outdoor rabbits living outside both during hot summers and cold winters.

Any help would be appreciated.

Links to pics:


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## Imbrium (Oct 24, 2012)

awww, poor bunny! I'm glad at least someone gives a fluffybunnybutt about the condition he's in, even if it's not the owner! I'm not sure what's wrong with him, but I'm sure someone will wander along who can help. ray:

by the way, is anyone giving them hay? rabbits NEED some sort of grass hay in their diet; you can get a big ol' bale for $10-15 that would last a couple rabbits a LONG time. if you're giving 'em some extra food, hay would do them even more good than veggies if they don't already have some (btw, in case you don't already know, you should be sticking to primarily leafy green veggies and only giving very small amounts of non-leafy veggies like carrots).


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## cornflakes (Oct 24, 2012)

I did some research and thought it might be mites, but i heard those are very contagious and the mom/dad rabbit who lives with the baby is not affected at all by mites, so maybe it's not mites.

Could it be something internal? Maybe a worm? Or could it be an infection that went untreated? I had heard something about the mom/dad rabbit biting the baby or something, in the ear? But I haven't seen any evidence of that. They usually cuddle together.


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## JBun (Oct 25, 2012)

My guess would be earmites. I think Revolution for kittens is what is used to treat that, but you usually have to get it from a vet. Absolutely NEVER use Frontline. It will kill rabbits.


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## Imbrium (Oct 25, 2012)

yes, revolution is incredibly safe if you think it could be a pest of some kind... frontline (the only med sold OTC at grocery stores and such, at least in the US) is incredibly dangerous and can be fatal.


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## katherine at sacred stories (Oct 25, 2012)

Aww. The bunny does look very uncomfortable in the pictures. I'm glad you've taken an interest. 

As Jennifer said, grass hay is the most important food for rabbits. Does the bunny ever get a chance to come out and exercise? I know it's not your bunny but is it possible someone could take it to a vet?


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## woahlookitsme (Oct 25, 2012)

That looks like ear mites. This is a really bad stage and when it gets that bad the ear could have permanent damage. The rabbits needs to be treated soon. Revolution on the back or Ivermectin in the ear will work but with this much progression you will need multiple doeses. I think its 2-3 weeks apart. You can also apply mineral oil in the ear to smother the mites but you should also use something else like the two things above. 

The scabs on the back is from the rabbit scratching. Ear mites should not become visible like this so if the rabbit is around others they need to be treated too. The first sign of mites is black gunk when you look deep in the ear of the rabbit. 

Here is the merck vet manual about ear mites http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/171334.htm


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## Bunnylova4eva (Oct 25, 2012)

woahlookitsme wrote:


> That looks like ear mites. This is a really bad stage and when it gets that bad the ear could have permanent damage. The rabbits needs to be treated soon. Revolution on the back or Ivermectin in the ear will work but with this much progression you will need multiple doeses. I think its 2-3 weeks apart. You can also apply mineral oil in the ear to smother the mites but you should also use something else like the two things above.
> 
> The scabs on the back is from the rabbit scratching. Ear mites should not become visible like this so if the rabbit is around others they need to be treated too. The first sign of mites is black gunk when you look deep in the ear of the rabbit.
> 
> Here is the merck vet manual about ear mites http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/171334.htm




Agreed. Definitly seems like a bad case of mites~the sooner it can be treated, the better. Hope bunny is doing better soon!


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## Nancy McClelland (Oct 25, 2012)

Maybe mites but i think the more likely cause could be ringworm. I'd get these pics to a vet and explain the situation and go from there.


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## Sweetie (Oct 25, 2012)

I agree with Larry. I say though, that it is ear mites. Some rabbits won't show any sign of having ear mites. Sweetie won't show any signs of having ear mites when she gets them, I have to be in tune with her to notice if something is wrong with her. She has had ear mites twice, both times were very mild as they were caught very early.


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## whitelop (Oct 25, 2012)

Can I ask where you work? 
Is it at a shelter or something? 

I don't know if its mites or ringworm, it looks bad though. Maybe do as Larry said and take the pictures to a vet to see if they could tell what it is and give you some suggestions.


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## cornflakes (Oct 25, 2012)

Oh no the news doesn't sound good. I'll try to take some closer pictures of it and show u again. The phone pic is not that high quality.

I wish that I could have gotten on this earlier but I never knew anything about rabbits and ear mites. I had seen this a couple months back or even more but thought it was only some itching or scratching but when it wasn't getting better i started to think its something else. 

But the dad rabbit who lives in the pen with the baby is always snuggling with it and he doesn't have any signs of ear mites or the contagion. Does this rule out ear mites or could it still be earmites? I thought ear mites were very contagious (even to humans) but the dad rabbit is perfectly fine and healthy.

I'll take pics to a vet and ask and see what I can do. 

Do you know how much it might cost me if I get those medications? (ie. revolution).

I really want to help it now as I feel sad I didn't get on this sooner. I've been feeding the dad rabbit everyday for the past year and i've grown attached to them. I will ask my employers if i can take the baby rabbit out with me to see a vet.


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## Imbrium (Oct 25, 2012)

if he actually goes in for an exam, probably $45-70 for the exam depending on the vet (personally, my vet charges $45 for one animal or $58 for multiple animals)... pretty much all vets will give a steep discount on the second animal if two are seen at the same time, so if you're going to take the baby to the vet you may as well take them both to make sure the dad is in good health.

it looks like a 3-pack of revolution (kitten dose) is about $40 online including shipping fees... not sure what it would be at a vet. if the vet is steeper than that, you can get a prescription and buy it elsewhere, assuming ear mites are the cause. if buying online, beware of any site that doesn't request a prescription, as there are some shady sites out there that sell stuff like expired meds at cheap prices.

if you don't already know a rabbit-savvy vet, I highly recommend checking out our library - http://rabbitsonline.net/view_forum.php?id=9 ... sadly, not all vets willing to see/treat rabbits know all that much about them - taking him to a vet could do more harm than good or cause you to pay for improper treatment if the vet you go to isn't truly rabbit-savvy.


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## cornflakes (Oct 25, 2012)

Ok, I just spoke to another worker and he said that the dad rabbit (bigger one) is always biting the baby rabbit since they are both males. The dad rabbit is under stress since his wife rabbit died a few months ago and he keeps biting or attacking the baby 3-4 times a day said the worker. But they still snuggle together and just now as I saw them, they were snuggling. I took some more pictures. It looks really bad...like fungus is growing on and in the ear.

I asked if I can take the rabbit to a vet and worker said he'll ask the owner/boss but said it shouldn't be my concern and just leave it be. This makes me sad. I told him I would be willing to pay for the medicine and even adopt the rabbit for a few weeks to allow it to recover/heal in my house. It sounds like it has to go through some process with the employer if I'm allowed to do such a thing.

Here are the pics with my video camera.


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## cornflakes (Oct 25, 2012)

So the question to find out now is if its EAR MITES
or if its simply due to constant attacking and biting of
the dad rabbit and the wound has been infected and unable 
to heal properly.

Once I know what it is, I can get the proper medication for him.

Again, the reason why I'm not certain its ear mites is that
the dad rabbit is perfectly clean and healthy and he's been
in close contact with the baby rabbit for months now. I could be wrong still but the worker said he thought it was ear mites too but now believes its just because the dad rabbit is under stress and is constantly biting the baby rabbit.


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## Imbrium (Oct 25, 2012)

I'm no expert, but it really doesn't look like it could be caused just from biting/stress.

I assume both males are unneutered? they *really* shouldn't be living together if there's any fighting at all occurring... there's a risk of it escalating and leading to serious injuries or even death 

sucks that they're being so freaking difficult about letting you do something for rabbits that aren't even theirs! not sure how you'd go about reporting animal cruelty, but I'm sure an animal in that condition who isn't receiving any medical care would qualify. the downside to reporting is that now that you've talked to them, they may guess/assume that you're the one who turned them in which could be tricky when dealing with an employer :S


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## I_heart_Fraggles (Oct 25, 2012)

It is illegal to allow that rabbit to suffer like this. Not blaming you one bit as your the only one trying to help but this rabbit can not be left in this state...Its animal cruelty and should be reported to the aspca.


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## cirrustwi (Oct 25, 2012)

It is ear mites. The flaking ick that you see is called Ear Canker. Rabbit skin reacts to the waste products from the mites. At this point, the infestation is really bad. He needs vet treatment because he most likely has a secondary bacterial infection in his skin and possibly into the ear canal. Without treatment, he could lose his hearing and/or his physical ear. The father is probably trying he help by biting and cleaning the ear. But the father probably has mites too, it just hasn't gotten this far.

I urge you to get, at least, the baby to the vet or report this place where you work to an animal rescue organization. I see you are from Canada, so I don't know what the laws are there. If you need some help I know some people who rescue and if we could get him here, I'm not sure how, but if we could work it out, we would treat him and find him a good home (honesty, he would probably be a lifer at my house ). Otherwise, I'm sure someone I know has to know someone in your area that could help.


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## holtzchick (Oct 25, 2012)

Awh, sorry I can't help but sending good thoughts and prayers to this poor little bun.


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## whitelop (Oct 25, 2012)

Why don't you just take the 2 rabbits to a shelter and be done with it? They'll either give the rabbit the help that it needs or put it to sleep. Either one would be better than suffering the way that it is. 
Its illegal to treat animals this way. The cage or whatever they're in is filthy and the condition of that rabbit is HORRENDOUS! 
Its our job as humans to take care of the animals who can't drive themselves to the vet or tell us that they have ear mites. So why don't you do your civil duty and take it somewhere. I can understand that you probably don't want to lose your job, but do you really want to work for people who don't have any care for animals? I know I wouldn't. That rabbit would have been gone long ago if I worked where ever it is that you work. 

I wish you the best, and I hope that the rabbit gets the help that it needs. But the other people who see this can't think that its okay to leave a rabbit like this.


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## cornflakes (Oct 25, 2012)

Thanks for your support everyone. Oh, I forgot to mention I am from Toronto Canada but I'm working in Korea right now. That's its morning here and the pics are in daylight. It also makes it difficult since I don't know everything here and my way around.


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## woahlookitsme (Oct 25, 2012)

It sounds as though you have never seen ear mites. Here is a picture of it that has progressed as far as yours







Like I and others have stated this rabbit needs treatment ASAP. Ear mites are contagious with close contact and the dad is probably infected but not to the extent. As stated above if you catch it early then all you see is black crust. Have you examined the dads ears? I would treat both of them.

Please read this website!
http://medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Parasitic/earmite/Psoroptes.htm


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## cornflakes (Oct 25, 2012)

wow, thanks for the picture. That looks exactly like what the baby rabbit has. Do you know how much the treatment would cost? Is it something I can do or requires leaving the rabbit at the clinic overnight or few days? 

At worst case scenario, at what point is it past the point of no return? Meaning, ear amputation or other surgeries that will be too far out of my price range. I feeeeeeel so bad for this guy and I had seen him for a long time but didn't think much of it. I really want to do something ASAP for him now. 

If I take him to keep at my place for a while til he recovers, what will I need? Would this pose any risk to my own health (ear mites) if I'm holding him and washing his fur. I also have a bit of a sensitive nose (nasal allergies) that I battle with everyday due to synthetic fragrances (cologne, perfume, shampoos) so everything I use is fragrance free. My place is a small room, so I wouldn't be able to put the rabbit cage elsewhere in the house since my house is just a room.

I'm trying to get all the info as much as I can to see if I can do this...at least get him to recover, and then try to find him a good home where he doesn't have to live with his dad in that dirty pen anymore.

I checked the dad rabbit again and I haven't seen a single sign of any symptoms. The dad rabbit is all white and very big. His ears as clear and bright pink on the inside, outside is pure white as snow fur (except for his paws which he steps in his own excrement all the time). He looks completely unaffected and healthy as he moves around a lot and is active with me whenever I feed him.

I was watching the baby rabbit again and while it was eating in the bowl, it looked like it was a sleepy or tired and maybe feeling the affects while swallowing?

After it ate, it was stretching its neck trying to turn it 90 degrees to the left and then to the right very slowly back and forth about 5 or 6 times. The cankers or crusty stuff had also spread to the back of its neck and upper part of its back.


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## MiserySmith (Oct 25, 2012)

Revolution itself is pretty cheap. I think it was less than $20 Canadian from my vet. They BOTH need it immediately. Even if dad is not showing symptoms he has it as well and without treatment it will eventually get just as bad and that is horrendous. The pictures literally made me nauseous. I could not leave the rabbit that way one bit. Why hasn't the owner done something?
When you treat the animal with revolution you would need to clean/change all bedding as well to prevent reinfecting them so that would be the perfect time for you to take him home if you're going to.
In all reality baby and dad should not be living together if they're fighting and not neutered but taking just baby home will aggravate that. You're better off treating and bringing home both so they keep whatever bond they have.
He probably has a secondary infection by this point, and even being put to sleep is better than this.


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## cornflakes (Oct 25, 2012)

Ok, my employer told me that I cannot take the rabbit home or out of the pen, but they allowed me to go and buy the medication for it. Then they have a cage where we can put the baby rabbit in and keep him separated but in the same pen with the dad rabbit. The pen is pretty big so we can put the cage in the far corner (with its own food bowl and water). HOpefully this will at least be better than allowing to stay free and open in the pen.

I read that article and it secondary infection seems to be if u see pus or some fluid coming out. Maybe its just covered by all the crust, but right now I dont see any pus or fluid. IF after applying Revolution or Ivermectin and the crust falls off in 3 to 12 days or so and I DO SEE a secondary infection, what medication to I need for that? Is it a different medication or just re-applying revolution or ivermectin again?

Lastly, when applying the medication, do I have to make sure it doesn't go directly in the ear or is that ok? I read something about some medicines can be fatal or cause problems with the ear drum and lead to fatality?


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## JBun (Oct 26, 2012)

What specifically did you buy and are there any instructions? Is it ivermectin paste, ivermectin injectible liquid, selemectin, and what is the percentage of active ingredient? I'm guessing this is a Korean version of the med., so we need specifics to be able to compare it with what is used here in the states and Canada. Some meds are applied differently, so let us know what it is you are working with.

If there is a secondary infection, then it would probably need to be treated with antibiotics, and only certain ones are safe for rabbits.


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## cornflakes (Oct 26, 2012)

The good news is I called up a veterinarian and he has Revolution and told me I only need to apply it on its neck.

I'm going to go into the city to buy it this weekend. I'm out in the rural area so I have to bus it since I dont have a car here.

The only problem is I dont know if there is a secondary infection. I'm not sure if that's something you can tell right now or if you have to wait until the crust falls off and the ear is visible.

If there is a secondary infection, I'm not sure if I can take the rabbit as it sounded like I was not allowed to do that (remove it from their property). Hopefully there isn't.

As far as dosage, I dont know what the dosage is on that bottle. But the vet sounded like he knew exactly what I was talking about when I said ear mites and asked if he had revolution and he said yes for about 15 bucks. 

I'll definitely keep you guys posted on what happens when I come back to work on Monday and apply the topical medication on the rabbits neck (i wanna apply it on the ears though cuz of all that crust which looks nasty).


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## woahlookitsme (Oct 26, 2012)

I think the website said as the crust falls off you should be able to tell if there is a secondary infection but you might want to read it again. 

Revolution is fine just make sure it is the right dose (usually kitten and puppy if its still packaged). If they took it out and dosed it for you then that is okay and they should give you a syringe for application purposes. 

Apply revolution on the nape of the neck or in between the shoulder blades. Make sure you get it on THE SKIN and not the hair or it will do no good. Im glad he can get treatment. Try to show the vet this picture and ask if he wants to repeat treatment in 2-3 weeks. I am pretty sure you will have to since he is this bad


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## JBun (Oct 26, 2012)

You will also want to treat the dad rabbit as well, even though he's not showing signs of earmites, because if he does have them, he could reinfect the baby after he's been treated. I know with ivermectin you have to retreat in 2 weeks or the mites will come back. I'm not sure if you do with Revolution. You'll want to ask the vet about it.


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## cornflakes (Oct 26, 2012)

After I apply the medication on the rabbit, I wanted to put him in a cage to keep him away from his dad for a while until he can recover. Is this OK? What can I put in the cage to make it comfortable for him? I know the worker here is going to change the food and water and i guess clean the cage everyday (not sure if he'll be too happy about that since im making him do little extra work), but each time he cleans the cage, i'm guessing i'll need to put hay or whatever back in there. I want him to stay warm since it's getting cold now. What should I use? Where can I get it? Also, do rabbits like any toys or something to keep them preoccupied?


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## JBun (Oct 26, 2012)

You'll still need to treat the dad too, even if they are separated. It's hard to know if putting the baby in the cage would be good or not. It depends on a lot of factors. Does the dad attack the baby, is the baby stressed being around the dad or do they like each other, lay down together, and groom each other. Are they bonded? If they are, it could be stressful for the baby to be separated, and that wouldn't be good. If they are still going to be put together after the baby's better, and as long as they like each other and the dad's not attacking the baby, you may just want to keep them together after you treat them both for the mites.

I have no idea where you could get hay around there. Here in the states, there are a few options depending on where you live. Pet stores will alot of times, have small bags of grass hay. If you have a walmart with a small pets section, they may have some. There are horse feed stores here that carry large 50 lb. bales of hay for the cheapest price. If you can find a horse stable, they may sell you some. You want a grass hay like timothy, orchard, costal, bermuda, something like that. Try to avoid grain type hays like wheat, rye, etc. If you can get a hold of a bale, then that would probably work the best for the buns, but you would have to have a way to transport something that big.

Some rabbits really like toys. You can use things as simple as an empty toilet paper roll, cardboard boxes that they can rip and chew up, newspaper and old phone books for ripping apart, dried hard pinecones, willow tree or apple tree branches to chew on, wiffle balls, fleece blankies to dig and bunch up. You just want to make sure whatever you use is rabbit safe.


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## Imbrium (Oct 26, 2012)

rabbits love toys... and fortunately most have pretty cheap tastes!

~ cardboard boxes are always a huge hit
~ toilet paper/paper towel rolls with hay stuffed in them
~ tunnels (you can get some at a hardware store that are cheap and big, I think they're concrete molds or something like that)
~ plastic slinkies
~ whiffle balls or small cat balls they can head-bump or toss around
~ brown packing paper

basically, stuff they can climb in/through, stuff they can chew on, stuff that jingles or crinkles and stuff they can grab/toss with their mouths or move around with their heads.

by the way, on behalf of this poor, neglected rabbit, I would just like to say thank you SO much for taking the time and money to do what his owner should've done ages ago - he's truly lucky you came along and felt compelled to do something for him! if only *every* miserable bunny in the world could have a good samaritan come along and stop to help ray:


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## HEM (Oct 26, 2012)

Thank you for looking out for this poor bunny, you are doing a great thing. And also to all of the people that gave great advice and suggestions for care.
But these people need to be reported. It seems like they don't give two shits about these rabbits, which is just awful.


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## dianerae (Oct 26, 2012)

God Bless you !!!!! You are a kind person for taking an interest in the bun. I will pray for you bothray:ray:ray:ray:ray:ray:


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## naturestee (Oct 26, 2012)

I just wanted to send my support to you for trying to do right by this poor bunny. Like the others said, the dad will need to be treated too because he will have mites too. They don't affect all animals equally, maybe the baby bun has another problem that allowed the mites to become so bad without really affecting the father.

As for the fighting, that is normal for rabbits that aren't neutered and/or caged in stressful conditions. From the sound of it, neutering probably won't be an option. They could have cages next to each other so they can still visit without hurting each other.

I hope the baby heals well!


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## cornflakes (Oct 27, 2012)

Today is Saturday night and I just came back from a 2 hour trip from the big city. I purchased 3 packs of Revolution from the vet. They were 14 bucks each (42 bucks total). The reason why I bought 3 was I didn't know the medication was a "one time" application package. I thought it would be a small 5 oz bottle or something that I could use more than once. Since they are one time use, and I need to do it to both the baby rabbit and dad rabbit, I thought I'd get a 3rd for backup for the baby rabbit if once wasn't enough.

The package says, 2.5kg, 15mg, 0.25mL (60mg/mL) on the back.
I'm assuming this is the right dosage since the vet gave this to me directly.

I'll definitely add some cardboard boxes and newspapers...beats the cold/dirty cement they live on. I don't know if i can find hay (and the right kind so that might be out). 

Am I allowed to drop a little on the ears directly? The vet told me no, I just have to do it on the back of the neck. How does that work? It travels through skin upwards to the ears? I always thought I'd have to administer the drops directly onto the ears (where it's the worse right now...fully crusted).

I'm excited to try this on Monday! I really want him to get better and hope there are no complications or a secondary infection. 

Thanks so much for all your replies...it's been very helpful and it's good to know there are lots of caring people out there who take the time to share information and help me out. I've always been a huge animal lover since I was a kid but never owned many pets other than a couple hamsters back in primary to high school and some fish. But I always went around to people's houses to pet their cats or dogs that were friendly. I loved feeding squirrels too.


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## woahlookitsme (Oct 27, 2012)

I just know the colors and the pink is right for puppies and kittens. I wouldn't put any in the ears just on the back of the neck. Don't worry it travels everywhere. Revolution is a monthly flea and heartworm prevention for most commonly cats (my cat uses it actually). It will travel and start the treatment. I would call the vet and ask about a second treatment .


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## Imbrium (Oct 27, 2012)

you may be able to find hay at a pet store or walmart-type store, but it's more expensive there... best bet is to find a horse feed store or call around to horse stables to see if any will sell a smaller quantity of hay for bunnies. dunno about the price difference over there, but here it's like $15 bucks for a bag that amounts to maybe 1/4-1/5 of a bale at pet stores vs $9-14 for an entire bale at a feed store.

ANY type of grass hay will work - timothy, coastal, bermuda, orchard grass, meadow grass, oat, wheat grass, etc. basically anything that can be fed to horses other than alfalfa.


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## naturestee (Oct 27, 2012)

Oh hey, I can't believe I didn't say it before and looking back I don't think anyone else has either- but you can do a secondary treatment for ear mites by pouring a little mineral oil or a food-grade oil like olive oil into his ears. It literally smothers the little buggers. In addition, it will soften those hard, icky crusts and help them to fall off more easily. With an infestation like that, oil would not be enough for a full treatment, but you can definitely use it to help his ears heal faster. I would think you could put a little on all the crusty areas of his ears every day or so until all the crusts have fallen off. Be very gentle when applying the oil- don't do more than dab gently. His skin will be very sore under all those mites and crusty ick.

Make sure you do a second Revolution treatment next month too, to make sure you get them all!


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## cornflakes (Oct 28, 2012)

UPDATE: today is Monday morning and I successfully applied the medication on both rabbits. But since they are wild rabbits they were not easy to catch. I thought they'd be like house rabbits and just come right up to me in my lap, but the worker had to catch them and hold them still on the ground while I emptied each tube of revolution onto the skin behind the neck area.

I couldn't take any pictures of the process as they were a handful but I took some pictures afterwards when they were cuddling together probably due to the stress or trauma of being caught and held.

I even got a short video of them. I hope to see after few days the crust starting to fall off and hopefully the baby rabbit will be fully recovered!













****SHORT VIDEO CLIP OF THEM AFTER THE TREATMENT***** uploaded to tinypic


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## JBun (Oct 28, 2012)

I'm so happy you were able to help them. I hope the baby recovers quickly. Please keep us all updated on his progress.


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## Pipp (Oct 29, 2012)

Unfortunately ear mite tend to multiply when other issues, like stress, are challenging the immune system. I don't like the looks of the sores on the back of the neck, I hope they're not bites. Do you know for sure the baby is a boy? 

And almost any pesticide-free, clean grass will do, but if you want hay, just find someone with horses. Native diets vary from country to country, eg: a lot of Asian areas will use sweet potato vines as a staple. But any variety of vegetation is fine too. 

A little pile of tree branches might be nice, tho not sure what you have there. I use fruit tree branches from fruit that doesn't have a pit, eg: apple and pear. Willow and birch are also good in this area. Just in case, I leave the leafs intact but I'll throw them in the oven on low for a few hours to dry up any sap and kill any bacteria, although either are rarely an issue. 

Thanks for helping these guys. 


sas :clover:


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## Sweetie (Oct 29, 2012)

The mineral oil does work on ear mites, but you will have to do it for a total of three weeks as that is the life cycle of the ear mite. I had to use mineral oil for Sweetie's ears when she had ear mites for the second time and I didn't have money for a vet. Swab the mineral oil in the ear once or twice a day for three weeks. Then clean the ears with a cleanser made for rabbits ears, I believe it is called Otic cleanser but not totally sure.


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## cornflakes (Oct 29, 2012)

Yes, it's a boy. After applying the medication on both of them, throughout the rest of the day I kept coming back to watch them. They seemed calm and they were often cuddled close together when they slept. I certainly hope to that the dad rabbit doesn't attack or bite the baby rabbit. I have yet to see it and just taking the word of the worker who told me.

But after reading a lot of info from others here and links, I'm sure its the ear mites problem that had been left alone and untreated for so long that is the main problem for the crust and fur loss. I remember clearly that it was only a small portion of the ears at first (the ends of the ears) and then it became the whole ear and then a small patch of fur loss appeared behind the neck and it was really spreading. 

I'll be eagerly watching him everyday hoping to see improvement over the next 4 weeks. I have a second dose ready in case he might need it again in a month's time.

Meanwhile I'll be trying to buy some Timothy's Hay today if any local pet stores have any. I put in a cardboard house today but the dad rabbit was chewing and eating the cardboard. It had printed ink on it so I decided to take out the cardboard house. I threw in some non-printed cardboard pieces (i made it into a criss-cross structure and also into rings using slits to connect the ends and not tape or anything they might eat). The dad rabbit chewed on them a bit but i think they've never really seen anything like this before and probably were cautious.

I'll update here for the next month or so, hopefully with good news and back to full recovery.


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## Sweetie (Oct 29, 2012)

The mineral oil does work on ear mites, but you will have to do it for a total of three weeks as that is the life cycle of the ear mite. I had to use mineral oil for Sweetie's ears when she had ear mites for the second time and I didn't have money for a vet. Swab the mineral oil in the ear once or twice a day for three weeks. Then clean the ears with a cleanser made for rabbits ears, I believe it is called Otic cleanser but not totally sure.


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## cornflakes (Oct 29, 2012)

sorry i dont know how to delete multiple posts. it was lagged for 10 minutes!


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## Pipp (Oct 29, 2012)

Unfortunately ear mite tend to multiply when other issues, like stress, are challenging the immune system. I don't like the looks of the sores on the back of the neck, I hope they're not bites. Do you know for sure the baby is a boy? 

And almost any pesticide-free, clean grass will do, but if you want hay, just find someone with horses. Native diets vary from country to country, eg: a lot of Asian areas will use sweet potato vines as a staple. But any variety of vegetation is fine too. 

A little pile of tree branches might be nice, tho not sure what you have there. I use fruit tree branches from fruit that doesn't have a pit, eg: apple and pear. Willow and birch are also good in this area. Just in case, I leave the leafs intact but I'll throw them in the oven on low for a few hours to dry up any sap and kill any bacteria, although either are rarely an issue. 

Thanks for helping these guys. 


sas :clover:


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## cornflakes (Oct 29, 2012)

I have a quick question. I've already applied Revolution some 14 hours ago on the rabbits. While I'm waiting over the next 3-4 weeks, can I also pour a little bit of olive oil on the ears or the crusted parts? Do I need to wait until AFTER revolution is complete or can I do the olive oil thing at the same time (just wondering if the olive oil might counteract or interfere with revolution from doing its thing?).

The other problem with applying olive oil (i can't find mineral oil here) is that they are wild rabbits and dont come up to ppl. So the won't come up to me. Either I have to try and spend some time with them in the pen so they might get comfortable with me (cuz I feed them everyday) or just try to drop droplets onto the ear from outside the pen while hanging overtop/above the rabbit when its eating or resting.


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## Geoff (Oct 29, 2012)

I would not touch the ears... Revolution or ivermectin will kill the mites and the ears will 'heal themselves'... it's actually pretty miraculous. Cleaning or treating these rabbit eats causes them unnecessary pain. Just wait. Revolution has to usually be given to rabbits every 2 weeks (they metabolize it a lot faster than a cat or dog does).


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## cornflakes (Oct 29, 2012)

I think you're right. I guess I just thought maybe a "double team" (revolution from the inside and olive oil from the outside) could help. I read somewhere that the oil suffocates the ear mites so they die. I was thinking of just dropping some droplets without touching them since I can't even touch them (as they wont come to me).

But if you think it's best to just leave it and let Revolution do it's magic...then I shall step aside and painstakingly wait and watch. 

Would you advise also NOT to feed them any hay or alfalfa hay at this time? Or is a little ok? The baby rabbit actually started to eat small pieces of cucumber I fed to the dad. I think he likes it now. He at it twice today but very slowly and then the dad rabbit finished his and took the rest the baby's cucumber slice lol.


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## Imbrium (Oct 29, 2012)

I would definitely feed them some grass hay (ie anything but alfalfa) if you can find some, it's SO important for their digestion.


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## whitelop (Oct 29, 2012)

They NEED hay. Hay is probably the most important thing you could feed them. Timothy hay, orchard grass, botanical hay, oat hay any of those. 

What kind of enclosure are these rabbits in? A lot of this doesn't make any sense to me. Like how the rabbits are being kept, why they aren't socialized and why the people you work for don't want to take care of them. 
I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering what is going on with this.


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## JBun (Oct 29, 2012)

I know these aren't your rabbits, and you've done a wonderful thing in helping this little guy out. Hay is important for rabbits, so if you would like to get some for them and you are able to find some, I'm sure the rabbits will love it  

It sounds like the cucumber was a hit! If you're feeding them veggie treats very often, they actually might become more friendly 

It sounds like Geoff is suggesting to retreat in two weeks. That might be pretty important in making sure the mites don't come back, especially with them being as bad as they are on this rabbit.

I have a nephew that went to China and taught english there, and he commented that they didn't seem to treat their animals very well there. Have you found that to be the case as well there in Korea?


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## Imbrium (Oct 30, 2012)

I've also heard 2 weeks due to rabbits metabolizing revolution faster than cats/dogs


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## cornflakes (Oct 30, 2012)

@JBun, well in the rural area where I am, I think so but in the city, ppl are lot more animal friendly or at least I think so. 

I know it's only been since Monday but just wanted to say that I think some of the crust has begun to fall off but the hair too, so the young rabbit has got some more bald patches but the pink skin looks clearer and hopefully that means the new hair will start to grow again. I'll post pictures a bit later on say around Friday-ish.

The other thing is I'm still not sure if the dad rabbit is responsible for some of the fur coming out. I see hairballs of fur on the ground and i dont know if it was due to natural shedding or forced hair pulled out by the dad rabbit biting or nibbing at the baby or if the process of crust falling off is the reason.

They stay together or cuddle a lot when they dont do anything (ie. rest or sleep) but im not sure if the dad rabbit is doing something harmful to the young rabbit.


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## lauratunes12 (Oct 31, 2012)

As somebody mentioned before, the dad might be trying to help the baby rabbit and just gets too rough.

I'm so glad you got medication and that it is helping!


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## missyscove (Oct 31, 2012)

Thank you for taking the initiative and helping these rabbits! I agree with the advice to treat them again in 2 weeks (or at the very least treat the baby with the bad ears) as the half life of Selamectin is shorter in rabbits than in the cats and dogs it is marketed for.


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## JBun (Oct 31, 2012)

It's possible the dad could be mounting the baby, and pulling out tufts of fur when he does it, but that doesn't mean that the dad is attacking the baby. If that was happening, I think you would be more likely finding wounds on the baby.


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## cornflakes (Oct 31, 2012)

Yes, I did see once the dad was trying to mount the baby but other times it was chasing the baby around from time to time and I didnt get to see what it was going to do cuz the baby rabbit kept running away. Shortly after though the baby goes to the dad rabbit and snuggles with him...i even saw the dad rabbit today lay down for the first time and the baby rabbit kinda lay on him. So i'm confused. I looked closely at the exposed skin on the back (which is quite big now...almost the size of my palm) and while it looks cleaner than before (less scabs/crust) it does look like there are tiny red dots around...not bleeding but kinda reddish tiny dots ...not sure if they are bite marks or scratch marks.

I could get a picture if you want?


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## JBun (Oct 31, 2012)

They could be bite marks from the mounting. Normally a buck would kind of grab a hold of the doe (or his baby in this case) with his teeth, on the middle or upper back area while he is doing the mounting. And all the chasing around that the dad is doing, is most likely that he is trying to mount the baby and the baby doesn't want to let him and so is running away. I don't think the baby would be snuggling with dad if dad was scaring him and attacking him.


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## jamesedwardwaller (Oct 31, 2012)

JBun wrote:


> You will also want to treat the dad rabbit as well, even though he's not showing signs of earmites, because if he does have them, he could reinfect the baby after he's been treated. I know with ivermectin you have to retreat in 2 weeks or the mites will come back. I'm not sure if you do with Revolution. You'll want to ask the vet about it.


--i cannot read much anymore,pictures tell alot-but not the whole story,,--?has this rabbit been examined by an exotic dvm specialist.??--this is a serious case of parasitical infestion,--i am going to have nightmares,,what jbun advised --i agree with but i don,t see a worthy spot to apply anything,--this little guy needs meds,parasitic meds,and lots of tlc for several months please utilize this website for help http://www.medirabbit.com --i am so sorry--keep us posted,,--sincerely james wallerray::shock:


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## cornflakes (Oct 31, 2012)

Thanks for the link. No, this rabbit has not been examined by any vet. I've applied revolution to both rabbits and if after 2 weeks the baby rabbit is not showing signs of improvement, I'll apply a 2nd dose of revolution again.

IF the baby rabbit is getting scratched or bitten by the dad rabbit, will the tiny wounds (small red dots or marks) exposed to the environment they are in possibly be reinfecting or the cause of the infection in the first place?

I'm just wondering and using some common sense that normally an open wound exposed can be more susceptible to contracting an infection or something more easily than if there was no wound and completely covered in fur. What do you think?

I'm trying to debate if the next step should be to separate the baby rabbit from the dad or if that sort of stuff is normal and shouldn't pose any risk to further infections?


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## jamesedwardwaller (Oct 31, 2012)

cornflakes wrote:


> Thanks for the link. No, this rabbit has not been examined by any vet. I've applied revolution to both rabbits and if after 2 weeks the baby rabbit is not showing signs of improvement, I'll apply a 2nd dose of revolution again.
> 
> IF the baby rabbit is getting scratched or bitten by the dad rabbit, will the tiny wounds (small red dots or marks) exposed to the environment they are in possibly be reinfecting or the cause of the infection in the first place?
> 
> ...


---absolutely seperate and treat wounds with betadine (walmart,etc.)-these affected rabbits require perhaps more than you can do at home--they require a proper examination,treatment--it will not be an easy task,---i know you will do the proper thing or you would not be here--our job is to help and direct--all bunz..-please keep us informed as time permits,--sincerely james waller-- http://www.medirabbit.com


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## JBun (Oct 31, 2012)

You should still reapply in 2 weeks with both rabbits, even if the baby shows signs of improvement. New eggs can hatch in 2 weeks, that the revolution hasn't killed off, so you need to reapply to get the last of these hatched eggs or he'll become reinfected. A third treatment would be even better, but at least do a second, and do it with both rabbits.

I'm not sure if separating the baby from his dad right now, would be a good idea. I'm just thinking that if they really are close to each other and do get along, separating them might cause the baby to become stressed, and that could affect his recovery. If you were absolutely sure the dad was fighting with the baby and attacking him, and it was scaring the baby, then yeah, it would be good to separate them. But with them snuggling together and seeming to get along, I just think the stress from separation wouldn't be a good thing right now.


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## missyscove (Nov 1, 2012)

If they're both unneutered males and you do separate them, you will probably never be able to safely house them together again.


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## cornflakes (Nov 1, 2012)

Thanks for those tips. Okay, I'll leave them together since the baby does seem to show attachment to the dad rabbit as he goes up to him a lot to snuggle or sit beside him.

I just ordered 2kg of Timothy Hay so it should be coming next week since I couldn't find it in stores here had to order online.

I'll take a picture tomorrow (friday) to just show how the rabbit is progressing. I think I can see the crust has definitely begun to fall off the ears as there's more pink skin showing and the skin color on the back used to look very bright red/pink but it looked a little lighter today...perhaps indicating the skin is recovering first before the fur grows back. 

Now it's getting very cold here and I know that rabbits can do fine in the cold (heat is more of the issue), but I'd still like to try and put in a little sheltered house in the pen. They have an old plastic or rubberish tub in there right now and both rabbits seem to like sitting in there a lot as oppose to the cement. I had made a cardboard house and put it in there on Monday but within minutes, the dad rabbit went in and looked around then he started tearing it up. The cardboard had ink printing on it so i didn't want it to chew and eat all the ink up so I took the house out.

Does anyone have any good ideas or suggestions as to what I can put in there that would serve as a nice little sheltered house for them during the cold winter season here? I know cardboard is a huge hit with rabbits but im a bit worried these ones have never seen it before and might eat it all up and get sick? Or should I just try and find cardboard that has ZERO printed ink on it and not worry about how much they wanna chew/eat it up?

Is there a different material I can use that is safe for rabbits even when they try to bite/chew/eat it? 

I threw some toilet paper rolls (i cut up into small rings) for them to play with but the worker got upset with me for doing that and said not to put it in there. I read that rabbits like toilet paper rolls to chew up and i saw that the rings I put in had been all chewed up, possibly eaten.

Other ideas?


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## cornflakes (Nov 1, 2012)

One more question. Can rabbits tell people apart like dogs and cats? Do they smell your scent or recognize your voice or visually see you distinctly from others? The reason I ask is everyday I go to feed them, when I lean over to say hello, the dad rabbit seems to automatically know its me and the last 4 days he's been standing up on 2 feet to look up at me and he even starts to paw the glass barrier. I'm hoping that with more contact, I can go inside the pen and have them come to me so that next time I apply revolution, I wont need to have the worker come in and grab and hold them to ground while I apply. It seems very stressful and scary to them. I'd much prefer they come to me by their own will knowing it's me and then i can easily apply the medication on their necks.


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## whitelop (Nov 1, 2012)

Yes rabbits do recognize you, they know who you are. They associate you with good food and treats. So its a good thing that you feed them special things, so they get used to you and you'll be able to be around them better when the time comes. 

As for something they sleep in, you could get them a big plastic storage container thing and cut a hole in the side of it for a door. Then stuff it with hay. If you didn't want to get a storage container then you could get a cardboard box and it would be fine. They will chew it, but it will be okay. They usually don't eat the cardboard, but if they don't have hay, they might be craving the fiber.

This is the storage container I'm talking about. Flip it over and cut a hole in the side. 
http://www.walmart.com/ip/8282894?a...1=g&wl2=&wl3=14084541790&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem

If the worker that cleans the enclosure didn't like the toilet paper rolls in there, how is going to feel about hay being in there? Hay is a mess, it gets everywhere. They sleep in it, they eat it, they potty in it. So is the guy going to let them have the hay, even though its a bit of a mess? I really hope so. 

Have you thought about taking them anywhere? They don't seem to be anyone's pets, they just seem to be animals that are somewhere. Could you look for a place for them to go where they'll get proper care and proper attention? Don't get me wrong, you're doing a great job, but the situation they're in doesn't seem ideal.


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## cornflakes (Nov 1, 2012)

The plastic bin sounds like a good idea. Less likely i think they'll try chewing on that. The cement floor is pretty cold. What makes for a good padding other than hay? I don't think I can order too much hay, just enough for some food. They are already given a bowl full of pellet food and water so I just thought as bonus treats and such I'll toss in my timothy hay when I get it and continue giving them cucumber slices.

Would any sort of wool or fleece blanket make for good padding or would those be a danger to rabbits (if chewing on them etc). 

I'll take pictures in an hour or so for update. I checked the young rabbit today and good news is each day its looking better. The crust is definitely falling off. The fur still has to grow back but i think if im seeing a lot more pink skin, that's a good healthy sign. I'm just worried that with so much fur loss, he might be cold or catch a cold since the weather has gotten very cold the last couple days.


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## Imbrium (Nov 1, 2012)

fleece is safe for rabbits even if they chew on it/ingest it as the fibers are very short and won't cause an obstruction (one of my bunns ate some of it just last week while ripping up her temp cage after being spayed) - lots of people use fleece as flooring. I'm not totally sure, but I'm guessing wool probably isn't safe.

someone correct me if I'm wrong, please, but I'm pretty sure cardboard boxes with printing on them are ok as long as it's black and white ink (no colors).


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## cornflakes (Nov 1, 2012)

here are 3 updated pictures. Today is Friday. I administered the medication on Monday. Still has a ways to go but it's definitely improving. The crust is falling off and u can see lots of the pink skin. The other positive thing I noticed is the baby rabbit is moving around more and is a lot more active since treatment. He normally never responds to me but the last 2 days now he's also standing up on 2 feet looking up at me when I arrive.


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## JBun (Nov 1, 2012)

Aww, that's so great!!! He does look a lot better, a lot less crusts. Thank goodness  Poor little guy, I'm glad he's feeling better 

The plastic bin sounds like it might work well for a bunny home. Just put the lid on and cut a little hole in the side. You'll just want it big enough for both of them to fit in there with enough room to move around. And using fleece for the bedding would work too. You would probably want to do seversl layers so it insulates from the cold floor well. I'm excited for these buns! I'm glad st least someone, mainly you, cares about them, enough to help them out.


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## Imbrium (Nov 2, 2012)

*cornflakes wrote: *


> He normally never responds to me but the last 2 days now he's also standing up on 2 feet looking up at me when I arrive.


aww, it's almost like he KNOWS you're the reason he's starting to feel better!


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## cornflakes (Nov 2, 2012)

I hope so! I don't want them to be afraid of me if I try to go in the pen. I watched them several times every hour or so and they were both resting together side-by-side in the sun. The pen gets some direct sunlight for most of the day and i noticed they sit or lay down right where the sunlight is shining. I assume that's because they get warmed up and it must feel nice, esp. in the cold weather.

It's Friday afternoon now so I won't get to see them until next Monday. I'll update again on Monday. Hopefully I'll have a nice little house made for them too!

I should add a note that the day after i gave the rabbit revolution, i decided to put a few drops of olive oil on the ear (right side only) and the neck/back. I think I dropped a total of 8-10 drops (3-4 on ear and 4-6 on neck/back). I had to do it from outside the pen while the young rabbit was sitting beside the barrier. I leaned over, aimed the bottle and landed the drops perfectly one by one on the ear and back. It didn't notice until about the 4th drop and it started to shake and wiggle its ear. Then the next day I noticed that's when so much of the fur was coming off. I wasn't sure if it was due to the oil or due to the revolution process taking effect. But now that I took the pictures today, the ear that I dropped the olive oil onto looks significantly more improved with less crust than the other ear that I didn't drop any olive oil onto. I'm not sure if this means the olive oil was also effective in helping remove the crust faster or if it was just the case that the other ear was actually worse and had more crust. You don't see the other ear in my pictures but it's got more crust (and thicker) still on it, but the right ear has got lots of skin visible and noticeable crust reduction.

I'm wondering if I should try to drop some more olive oil on the ears or not.


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## JBun (Nov 2, 2012)

I think Geoff was suggesting not putting oil on the ears because touching them would be painful for the rabbit, but if you are just squeezing some drops on there with out touching, I don't think that will hurt. You would want to try and make sure you aren't getting much on the rest of the fur. I don't know how easy it is for rabbits to clean oil off their fur. But the oil on the crusts seems like it would soften them up so they fall off easier, as well as helping get rid of the mites.


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## cornflakes (Nov 4, 2012)

Today is Monday morning here. It's been exactly 1 week since giving them both revolution. To my pleasant delight, the baby rabbit's ears' crust has almost all fallen off! It's improved significantly over the weekend and now the only thing left is for the fur to grow back. Here's some more updated pics from just a few minutes ago.

I also gave them timothy hay and the dad seems to like it a lot more than the baby but maybe he's not used to it yet or wasn't hungry. I also put the cardboard box house back in just to see if they can get more comfy with it. They were both exploring and examining it right away. I took a video of them also which I'll post here in a moment.


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## missyscove (Nov 4, 2012)

He looks so much better! I'm so glad you were able to help this little guy.


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## Imbrium (Nov 4, 2012)

he's definitely improving quickly! 

again, thank you so much for being a good samaritan and taking the time and money to do something to improve the quality of life these bunnies have! it's so sad for bunnies to be neglected by their owner to the point that someone needs to intervene the way you have. I'm sure they can't even begin to express their thanks for the hay, hidey house and most of all the much-needed medical treatment.


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## cornflakes (Nov 4, 2012)

Video of rabbits 1
Exploring the cardboard house video 2


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## Imbrium (Nov 4, 2012)

I can't believe how much fur is missing off the baby's back - those mites were BAD!!

it was SO cute when the dad was grooming him! and it looks like the cardboard house is a hit


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## cornflakes (Nov 4, 2012)

Thanks everyone also for your info and support. I kinda thought about something the past few days. Usually rabbits give birth to a litter right? Like half a dozen or so? I remember about a year back or more, the mother rabbit (when she was alive) gave birth and i saw one of the newborns just laying on the ground untended for. Later on I found out that the baby died since I couldn't find it and the worker told me. I didn't actually see a litter of 5 or 7. I only remember seeing one (but back then I never paid as much attention to them as I do now). Since this little rabbit is the only baby around, I'm thinking it may be the case that he was the "strongest" of the litter and had the genetics to survive whereas the others didn't. It made me realize how this baby rabbit was able to have a bad case of ear mites for so long (i know I said 2 months but it probably actually started about 6-8 months ago as I remember seeing small scabs and thought they were just bites or scratch cuts that would heal). Now seeing him improve so quickly and also moving around a lot more than I've ever seen him do, maybe he's a lucky one and has the best genetics from his parents. 

He used to just sit and move very slowly and sluggishly. His eyes always seemed tired or sleepy (maybe cuz he was weak or lethargic) but since the treatment his energy has quadrupled and his eyes are wider open and he seems to move around like little rabbits should. 

On a bad note, since I've been spending a lot of time hanging around the rabbit pen, feeding them cucumber and occasionally pieces of apple (they love that) and now the timothy hay he told me in a very bothered tone that I shouldn't feed them so much because he's the only one that cleans their pen (meaning that he is bothered that me feeding them more lately is making them drop more). I had thrown in once a few cut rolls of toilet paper for them to play with or chew on (which they did) but he didn't like that either as it was messy for him to clean up. 

So that really pissed me off that he's more bothered by having to clean up more droppings than their health and well-being. I mean, it's his job whether he likes it or not, he's gonna have to clean the pen regardless...so why is he making it such a big deal that I'm feeding them hay or apples slices or whatever and thinks I'm making it a mess for him to clean up?? I'll put the hay in a bowl to minimize the mess but that comment really upset me.


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## cornflakes (Nov 4, 2012)

Imbrium wrote:


> I can't believe how much fur is missing off the baby's back - those mites were BAD!!
> 
> it was SO cute when the dad was grooming him! and it looks like the cardboard house is a hit



YES, he lost a lot of fur on the neck and back and it looks kinda cold for him thats why I wanted to put in a house. I think maybe why he snuggles close to the dad is that he gets body heat. I hope the fur grows back quickly before full blown winter season hits.

Yes, when the dad is not chasing him, they often snuggle like that and 9/10 times it's the baby that goes to the dad to snuggle. Sometimes the dad rabbit falls on the ground sprawled out to let the baby rest on him. I had never seen that before and couldn't believe it lol. I never really knew rabbits were a lot more like cats and dogs and liked things like toys until now and watching a lot of rabbit videos and researching.


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## MiserySmith (Nov 4, 2012)

Wow. He looks so much better! and honestly, I love the dad bunny. He's beautiful
If there's a way for you to get a normal cat litter box from the dollar store or something it may save some mess to put hay in there. They tend to throw it around some and often a dish isn't enough to contain that.
I'm so glad you've helped these bunnies when no one else cared!


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## cornflakes (Nov 4, 2012)

Thanks. Yes, I might try that then. I'm just worried the worker there will get angry for putting something else in there.


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## Imbrium (Nov 4, 2012)

that worker's got a stick up his butt, he can get over cleaning up after healthy rabbits instead of sick ones >.> the effort of sweeping is based on the area that has to be swept, not the amount of stuff there is to sweep up, anyway.

as for the babies, litters can be anywhere from 1-12 kits, so it's quite possible there were only ever two.

if you want to see something *really* cute, try giving them each a little slice of banana! they look SO adorable with their little mouths all full of mush


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## lauratunes12 (Nov 5, 2012)

Faith doesn't like banana, we were sad. :dunno 

But I digress.. Have you thought of what's going to happen once they are both healthy? They are still living in less than ideal conditions, and who's to say they won't get mites again later on in their lives? I feel like they should have a better home. :hearts

Thank you so much for doing this though, I bet the baby feels a LOT better.


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## JBun (Nov 5, 2012)

I love the videos!! Baby looks really good. What a vast improvement. It was fun to see him checking out his new box. He really does seem more alert. You can just see by looking in his eyes that he's feeling so much better. Having those mites must have been pretty painful for him. I'm really glad he's on the mend  Thanks for keeping us all updated on his recovery!


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## eclairemom (Nov 5, 2012)

Thank you so much for helping these poor bunnies. They baby is looking so much better. So sorry the guy who takes care of them is being a jerk.


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## cornflakes (Nov 5, 2012)

Imbrium wrote:


> the effort of sweeping is based on the area that has to be swept, not the amount of stuff there is to sweep up



Yes!! You're brilliant! That's exactly what I was thinking to myself when he said that! It just sounded like an excuse for something else he might be grudging about. It may be that he just doesn't like having someone around his work area all the time now and feels invasion of space. 

In response to everyone else, yes, the baby rabbit looks and feels so much better now. It makes me so happy to see him move around like he does now and it literally seems like a WEIGHT has been lifted off his shoulders. Do you remember that scene in Lord of the Rings where the King of Rohan (forgot his name) was under a curse for a long time and he was all rotted away on his throne like a dead vegetable? Then Gandalf came and released him from the curse and the King was alive, well, and strong again. Well, that's feeling I got. lol.

I don't know what will happen to them when I leave here...but that's not until next August so while I'm here, I'll be sure to take care of them. I realize that as long as I can do what is within my power and ability, then that gives me some peace. Whatever happens to them in the years after I'm gone, I hope they will live out as best a life any outdoor wild rabbit can live. 

Oh, and another breakthrough today! Just before I was leaving work, I decided to go into the rabbit pen (I let myself in teehee) and to put some more timothy hay in a little basket that I put in the cardboard house. They were both sitting far away from me but within a few seconds, the dad rabbit came over to me! He knew I was giving some food so he just came over and I actually fed him from my hand. I probably could have pet him if I wanted to but decided not yet. That's the first time he's not run away from me. The baby rabbit was sitting by the food bowl so I walked over to him to put some hay in the bowl and the baby rabbit didn't run away either! He just sat there and i was within petting distance of him too, so it seems they aren't scared as much anymore and may even greet me from now on if I go inside. This is good news so that next monday I can put the 2nd treatment of revolution on them without having the worker chase them frantically around the pen and hold them down in a panic. I hated seeing them struggle like that. Especially the baby since it gave a little yelp too.

Oh, one more thing,I noticed they both have a little twitch in their paws when they are about to scratch or clean themselves. You might have seen it in the video where they both had the twitch...it's quite pronounced in the little one as I see him twitch his paw a lot, but when I saw the dad do it today also, I kinda laughed cuz I thought it might be a hereditary thing he passed along to him. My other thought is that it could be a case of arthritis in both of them? In any case, it doesn't look painful or bothersome...just a noticeable twitch everytime he's ready to lick his paw and clean himself.


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## JBun (Nov 5, 2012)

With you giving goodies everytime you see those buns, they are going to end up being totally in love with you! Before you know it, they'll be doing little happy circles around your feet 

By the little twitch, do you mean when they shake their paws before they groom? That's actually normal rabbit behavior. They're shaking any dirt off their paws before they start grooming themselves. Perfectly normal


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## whitelop (Nov 5, 2012)

Have you thought about taking them with you when you leave? 
Having them shipped back to your home in Canada when you leave Korea? 

The baby looks so much better. They're large rabbits, I didn't realize how large they were. You've done a very good job helping this bun out! I'm so glad that you took the steps to help him.


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## MyRabbits (Nov 5, 2012)

Be careful with the apple! That really corrupts a rabbits' eating habits. They all just love it but will then not eat as much hay as they should and the extra sugars in the apple tend to throw their gut bacteria off. They really aren't meant to have many simple sugars in their diet. . . .


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## MyRabbits (Nov 5, 2012)

It's a good thing to treat preventatively for mites every six months, especially the more rabbits you have. Ivermectin can be absorbed orally, by syringe or through the skin. I typically dribble the preparation for injection into the fur behind the ears where it can readily absorb into the skin. 

Ivermectin is available in a number of different preparations at any farm store. Some people really like using the paste that is developed for oral administration for horses. My rabbits have always hated that though.


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## cornflakes (Nov 5, 2012)

thanks for the tip. Yes, I read that you should only give some fruits sparingly (once in a while) as a treat. 

There is a small straw basket i threw into the cardboard house and put some hay in it but for the 4th time in a row now, when I come back a an hour or so later, the straw basket is sitting outside the house as if it had been thrown out.

Are they saying they don't like the straw basket or is it just a case that they might have been playing with it (throwing it around) and it ended outside? 4 times I put it back in, and 4 times i found out back outside lol.


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## MyRabbits (Nov 5, 2012)

Oh, it absolutely sounds like a toy.. . If you are having trouble getting them to like timothy hay, try switching them to a spring grass mix or even oat hay for a while and then gradually reintroducing the timothy. Sometimes they just want variety and depending on what cut of the season the timothy is it can be rather bitter. . . .


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## Imbrium (Nov 6, 2012)

aww, that's SO sweet that they're warming up to you! I'm going through the same process with two stray cats that adopted me


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## cornflakes (Nov 12, 2012)

Today is Monday, exactly 2 weeks after the 1st treatment of revolution. Just updating with new pics and a video.

Fur is starting to grow back now (darker color at the roots i guess and will lighten up later). I'll apply a 2nd treatment sometime this week. I guess it doesn't have to be exactly 2 weeks but within this week. Other note, they are eating the timothy a lot more now. I didn't leave any for the weekend and when I saw them this morning, they seemed eager for it so I gave them a couple handfuls and they were eating it up. The young rabbit still really likes the pellet food most and he often sits himself inside the food bowl while eating lol.















VIDEO
eating


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## Imbrium (Nov 12, 2012)

EWWWW, that's their pelleted food?? please tell me my eyes deceive me and it's not positively RIDDLED with corn the way it looks to me like it is!  (corn is super bad for bunnies, they can't digest it properly)

good thing I'm too tired, lazy and cheap to hop a flight to Korea right now (or wherever you are if I remembered wrong), or else I'd wind up in jail on assault charges for smacking some sense into what is quite possibly the worst bunny owner I've ever heard of.

*wonders how much it would cost me to ship some PROPER pellet food over there out of sheer pity for the bunns*

seriously, the owner(s) of these bunns do NOT deserve to have animals!


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## cornflakes (Nov 12, 2012)

Yeah, I've seen them eating that for 2 years since I've been here. But I'm giving them timothy hay everyday now and hopefully they'll eat more of the hay. The young one really seems to like the pellet though lol. Today I tried giving him some cucumber and even some almonds, cashews, walnuts (i had some today and the dad ate some but not the baby).


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## whitelop (Nov 12, 2012)

It looks like chicken feed. It actually looks a lot like what I'm mixing for my chickens right now. I wouldn't worry too much about them being cold this winter with all that corn. Corn is a hot food, so it heats up when its being digested. My chickens get it in the winter time only, so they'll be a little warmer at night. 
Rabbits have a hard time digesting the hulls of the corn kernels, but if they've been eating it for that long then it may not bother them. Corn is one of those controversial rabbit foods. I think some other countries feed corn more than we do in here, because corn is more readily available than pellet food. 

The baby does look SO much better, it looks like his new fur is coming in quite nicely. And his ear looks so much better too! I would treat him again this week, just to be on the safe side. You're doing a good job taking care of them. Hopefully with the new hay, the corn husks will pass better!


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## JBun (Nov 12, 2012)

Oh wow, Baby looks great!!! Looks completely healed. It must feel pretty good knowing you were able to help that little guy

That food is pretty shocking. It's not something any of us would feed, but oh well. The baby does seem to really like it, but no wonder with all that corn in it. That's pretty funny that dad's back there snoozing while baby is there snarfing the food down

You'll want to make sure to give the next dose of revolution as soon as possible. You just don't want to wait too long because anything that wasn't killed with the first dose, will be maturing soon and can reinfest the baby and dad again. That's why you have to retreat in 2 weeks, to give all the leftover eggs a chance to hatch, but not long enough that they mature and can lay more eggs.

I'm so glad you've helped this baby! He looks so good and so happy now


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## cornflakes (Nov 12, 2012)

Ohh...interesting point about the chicken food. Next door to the rabbit pen is a chicken pen with 2 chickens in it. I should check that out and see if their food is the same!

Brb.


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## cornflakes (Nov 12, 2012)

I just checked the chickens and their food looks like saw dust. They were both sitting in the tub full of it and eating.


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## whitelop (Nov 13, 2012)

The food situation is really strange, but different countries do things differently. I bet the chickens would love the rabbit food! 

Where do you work? The fact that there are chickens and rabbits in the same place, is a little strange. Are the chickens in good health? Are there other animals there and are they okay?


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## eclairemom (Nov 13, 2012)

cornflakes wrote:


> . Today I tried giving him some cucumber and even some almonds, cashews, walnuts (i had some today and the dad ate some but not the baby).



Please don't give the bunnies any nuts. I think some are toxic. Anyone jump in if i'm wrong.


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## eclairemom (Nov 13, 2012)

Oh I forgot to say, I'm so happy to see the hair coming back in and those pink ears


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## Imbrium (Nov 13, 2012)

yeah, seeds and nuts are no-nos for bunnies... cucumber's ok, but only in limited amounts (about 1 tbsp per 2 lbs body weight)


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## cornflakes (Mar 13, 2013)

It's now March and they are both still doing well. I just thought I'd post another short clips of the rabbits. The young one has been active and he's always running around and doing funny things now lol. He likes to dig into my bag of timothy hay so I let him do it for a little while.

rabbits update march 13, 2013


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## whitelop (Mar 13, 2013)

Awww they look really good! I'm glad you've been helping to take care of them. They seem to really like they hay, which is good. 
They seem pretty healthy and happy! 

Have there been any other issues with mites or anything?


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## cornflakes (Mar 13, 2013)

Thankfully no other issues or recurrence. Yeah, they really love the hay these days. The water bowl used to freeze overnight and sometimes i'd find them licking the ice....so i started changing the water everyday too, and the chickens in the next pen (since they keep calling for me to tell me their water is frozen! LOL). I have a video of that too.


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## whitelop (Mar 13, 2013)

Hahaha. Thats so good that nothing else has happened. They seem pretty happy. 
My chickens call for me and tell me that their water is frozen too!


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## JBun (Mar 24, 2013)

Lol, the little boy is so funny digging in the bag of hay. They both seem really happy. It's so good to see that both of those rabbits are doing so well now. It looks like you've won them over and that they are completely comfortable with you and look forward to you coming to visit them


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## Ilovemyrabbit (Mar 24, 2013)

I saw this thread a while back and I've seen the little boy improve as time went by. First of all I would like to thank you SO MUCH for helping the baby bun. You did a very good job and I know you would make an awesome pet owner! They seem to be so exited to see you, and I'm sure they get very happy when you come to visit them.


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## KeltonB (Mar 24, 2013)

cornflakes, you have done a very wonderful thing looking after these two bunnies. I hope you can take them with you when your time there is over. Best wishes.


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## Chrisdoc (Mar 25, 2013)

Just read this from start to finish and what a story...what a difference for little baby from the beginning to now, he looks like a different bunny and they both seem to be much better emotionally now with your company, they are really getting attached to you. I really hope that you can take them with you when you leave, you´ve made such an enormous difference to their lives.


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## cornflakes (Mar 26, 2013)

I have some bad news that I just received today after work.

I visit the rabbits everyday and give them some hay and clean water
or just to see them. The baby rabbit was healthy as normal at around 12noon
moving around everywhere, eating, etc. But after work at around 4pm, the groundskeeper told me that he thinks the grey rabbit is going to die today. I was like WHAT?!?!? I was thinking to myself, WTH DO YOU MEAN HE MIGHT DIE TODAY. I JUST SAW HIM 3 HOURS AGO AND HE WAS SUPER DUPER HEALTHY.

When I got over to the pen, I saw him laying there with little energy, his dad sprawled over him, and moving around him licking his ears, his head, and his behind. I saw the young rabbit was trying to move around but his legs and body were not coordinated and it looked like at first his back was broken cuz his body looked contorted. After spending the next half hour trying to find out what could have happened and calling the english speaking VET, it was either some animal had climbed into the pen and injured it in an attack, or it was some disease perhaps that STRUCK suddenly like this (this one I highly doubted), or he may have injured himself from a fall (vets told me they can sometimes do that), or he ate something that poisoned him. Well most of the people had gone home and it looked really bad. He seemed to be wet in the mouth/nose area...possibly since he's breathing into the ground not able to keep his head up, and when he tried to move around, he was flopping over the place struggling to get upright. I decided even if it was out of my hands and this was it, I called around for the nearest animal clinic with an english speaking vet. We found one 25 minutes away in the next biggest city. I put the rabbit in a box with some newspaper and hay....called a cab and headed over to the animal hospital. He was squirming and moving around throughout the ride...i kept a gentle hand present....we got to the vet, he checked him, took an xray, saw that there was nothing wrong with is bones or internals....so that led us to believe 90% that it was poison...but there was no way to know what kind of poison or what he ate ....the only medicine they had was for insecticide and fertilizer poisoning so i got both injection for him...we decided to keep him there to rest instead of me taking him back since its a long way. 

As I was writing this, I just got a call from the vet to tell me that sadly he did not make it. He just passed away. I'm broken and in tears right now I can't even type anymore so sorry. Here were the last pictures of him at the vet.

Looks like it's just the dad rabbit now... I'm so sorry that his story had to end like this...all i wanted was for him to live a full life...he was too young, such a fighter, but in the end it seemed there was nothing i could do. The only comfort I will take with me is knowing i did all that I could...above and beyond and i hope he knew it...i hope there's a heaven for rabbits too.


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## cornflakes (Mar 26, 2013)

I never gave him a name. I just referred to him as the baby rabbit, young rabbit or grey rabbit......in memory of him, can you all suggest what name I could give him? I need to get back to my crying.


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## cornflakes (Mar 26, 2013)

Now that I took a hot shower and I'm all cried out, I got curious again to know what could have been the issue? I did some online researching looking for what causes "sudden loss of motor skills/balance/inability to walk"...and other things I noticed were a slightly wet nose/mouth...and little bit of wetness in eyes or fur around the eyes...could this have been "discharge"? We pretty much ruled out an animal attack, or an injury of the bones ....it seems either poisoning or maybe something in the intestinal system? Some sort of internal intestinal bacterial infection? Could anyone shed some light possibly what it sounds like it could have been? Once again the rabbit was fully healthy, vibrant, normal as could be at 12noon...then around 3 or 4ish when I was told, was suddenly unable to walk, loss of motor skills/coordination, slight wetness around the mouth/nose and eyes...but they may have been due to the dad licking it or the baby rabbit's own breath condensation from having his mouth on the ground all the time breathing (builds up moisture?). He was also breathing faster than normal (you could see the breathing in the body going up and down faster than normal). The other thing I THINK i noticed was his cheeks seemed bigger (maybe swelling?). It was either his fur just styled that way from having been face on the ground for so long or his cheeks really did swell a bit larger. Just also to add, during this time, he never attempted to eat or drink even when I put a cap filled with water right at his mouth. His mouth was shut the whole time. He didn't make any noises other than once in awhile when the vet was just checking him (like a purring sound).


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## candice136 (Mar 26, 2013)

RIP sorry to hear the bad news just think hes not suffering anymore xx :bigtears: :bigtears::bigtears::bigtears:


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## holtzchick (Mar 26, 2013)

I'm really sorry to hear the ending of this story! I was so glad that he was doing so well!! 
Poor little guy, R.I.P. and binky free. 

I'm so grateful that at least you were there to help him even though it wasn't your rabbit! Thank god for people like you and I can't believe the owners let it get to that point, they clearly didn't care about them much.


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## KeltonB (Mar 26, 2013)

How heartbreaking this is for everyone that has followed your heroic actions from afar, but even more so for you who took these sweet creatures under your care. You have earned my respect and many more, if not everyone else, here. Thank you for trying so hard to give them a better life. The little guy certainly looks to have recovered very, very nicely from his original condition, so his last months were probably the best of his life.

As to the sudden lost of mobility, I've had this happen before and it can be very alarming. If memory serves, it is some form of bacteria that rabbits are especially susceptible to. The buns head tilts severely to the ground and their hind legs seem to be completely out of coordination with the rest of their body and they just kind of squirm around in a circle. I'm no expert, but I am hoping it was something like this and not a case of poisoning.

Prayers for you and daddy rabbit.


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## PaGal (Mar 26, 2013)

My heart goes out to you! I read your story for the first time last night from beginning to end. It is a terrible shame the life these bunnies have led and the conditions they live under. Know that you have made a great change in their lives, you have given them better conditions to live in, have shown compassion and love and have given them companionship. It is a wonderful thing that you did. On behalf of the buns, Thank You!


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## Imbrium (Mar 26, 2013)

oh god... I was catching up on this and saw the video, I was going to say it was amazing how much healthier and happier they looked... then I got to the horrible news about the baby :tears2:

I'm SO sorry you lost him after five months of caring, nurturing and nursing him back to good health. life is so unfair sometimes! while I know it's breaking your heart that you got so attached only to lose him, I'm incredibly thankful that you did - it's far better for him to pass away now after finally getting to know GOOD care and the love of a human and getting to enjoy months of good health than for him to have passed away miserable and still suffering from those horrendous mites. you gave him more than he could ever have dreamed of a mere six months ago. you took away his suffering and made a tremendous difference in his life before it was tragically cut short - I know he must've been awfully grateful for all you did.

binky free, little guy! :rainbow:


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## JBun (Mar 26, 2013)

I'm just feeling so sad about little bun right now. I was so happy when you were able to help him, and he got better. You made such a difference in those rabbits lives. If you hadn't come along when he first had the mites, he probably would have just suffered until he died. At least he got better, and had a few months, where he was happy and healthy.

There are a few things that I can think of that may have caused this. E. cuniculi is a protozoa that can commonly affect rabbits. It can cause problems with the nervous system, and can cause hind limb paralysis. But it usually doesn't cause such a sudden onset of symptoms, or death. So I don't know if it's something that can progress as quickly as this all happened. Mycotoxins, often found in corn, can cause sudden death in rabbits. It seems to more commonly affect the digestive system, but can also affect the central nervous system, and will cause a sudden onset and progression of symptoms. Or some other unknown poison could have caused this, but I don't know how he would have gotten to any, unless someone put some in there. 

I'm just so sorry. It's so hard to lose them. I hope daddy bun is going to be ok. I'm sure he's feeling pretty lonely and misses his buddy.


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## cornflakes (Mar 26, 2013)

Thanks for everyone's support. The pellet food that he was provided everyday was some sort of mix that did involve corn kernels...i don't know much about this myoctoxin but since he did he a lot of that corn...it could have been a factor? 

The bacteria thing also sounds likely. He may have had a weaker immune system than his dad? Just got into work few minutes and checked up on the dad rabbit to see how he was doing (he was fine yesterday when I left). He looked very lonely. He was just sitting quietly by himself in the middle with one ear flopped down and the other kind of up. 

I'm wondering if it was poisoning from something they ate, how come the dad rabbit isn't affected? It's either a case that the dad rabbit is stronger or the young rabbit was weak? Or maybe it was a bacteria disease only in the baby rabbit? Usually, if anyone gives food to the rabbits from outside, the dad rabbit is the more eager one to come greet the visitor and eat whatever it is they bring. I highly doubt the baby rabbit ate something first...even then, the dad rabbit would come and snatch it away. The baby rabbit was much more shy and timid so all these clues including the symptoms are leading me to believe it may have been a bacterial disease, then poisoning.


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## Chrisdoc (Mar 26, 2013)

I was absolutely gutted to read this and can´t believe that after he´d got back to good health, this could happen. So glad that he got a few months of wonderful care and knew what love and affection was from you. I thought as well that someone may have deliberately given him something but you would have thought dad would have been affected in the same way. It just makes me think that if they´re capable of leaving them like that, then they´re capable of anything. 

I wa going to say Lucky or Star as a name, I know he´s sadly gone over the bridge but he was a really lucky little fellow to have had you caring for him. 

Binky free little fellow, no more pain for you :bunnyangel2:


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## Ilovemyrabbit (Mar 26, 2013)

I was so sad to hear this! I actually cried for you and the dad rabbit and I usually never cry . At least his last few months were full of love and happiness. I'm sure he was very grateful for what you did for him. And he was soo lucky to have had you care for him. That's why I agree with Chris, I think you should name him Lucky or Star or you could even name him Lucky Star, I really like the name Lucky Star.

RIP little sweetheart, go binky free in bunny heaven.


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## cornflakes (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks. My eyes and face was all puffy from lastnight and ppl were asking me what happened to me. I loved your responses about the name. Lucky Star is a PERFECT NAME. When I look up at the sky and see a shining star twinkling at me, I'll remember it's my LUCKY STAR. Thanks for that name. 

There's a chance I can adopt the dad rabbit if they decide to get new rabbits because they said the new and old rabbit would fight so that wouldn't be good and they were considering getting rid of the current rabbit if they get new ones. I told them, IF they do that, please tell me first, because I will adopt the dad rabbit and keep him while I'm here. I don't know how or if it's doable to even take a rabbit back home to Canada with me if I leave. 

The groundskeeper also said he will now put up a mesh fence to cover the open space between the wall and the roof (the wall is about 4 feet tall and then it's just open for any animal or person to jump in there). That might help to keep out other animals and birds that come into steal the rabbit food and leave behind piles of bird poop.

Here are 2 pics I took of the dad rabbit this morning...he seemed so alone now...but more excited to see me...i guess it's good company now that he doesn't have any one left (lost his wife, and now his son).











any name ideas for him?


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## Imbrium (Mar 27, 2013)

I LOVE the name "Lucky Star" for the younger rabbit... that's absolutely perfect!

again, I'm so sorry you lost him... but so glad you found him in the first place. I'm crying again, heh... it's just so sad, after all he'd gone through and overcome, to die so suddenly and so young. I'm sure you're like the patron saint of bunnies to these two, with all the wonderful changes you brought.

looking at that second picture of the dad, I feel like there's a name right on the tip of my tongue, but I just can't quite find it 

oh, and if they do decide to get replacement bunnies, pretty please convince them not to get a M/F pair unless at least one of them is fixed! god knows these people shouldn't be breeding more rabbits.


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## cornflakes (Mar 27, 2013)

He looks like a white wizard like Gandalf the White lol.


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## ladysown (Mar 27, 2013)

wry neck or e.cuniculi....

could be poisoning, but if nothing was around.....probably wry neck. Would have needed to be aggressively treated.


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## Chrisdoc (Mar 27, 2013)

I was thinking something along magical or mystical lines and I like Gandalf, he looks so sad in the photos, I bet he´s missing the little one. I was thinking of the name Max and then Mad Max popped up for some reason, how weird is that. Lucky Star is perfect for him , I was still thinking about that poor little fellow when I went to bed last night and I, like Jennifer, shed a few tears. Just thinking about him brings tears to my eyes. But yes, he was so lucky to have you even though it was such a short time, you brought him so much joy. I think everyone who´s read about his story on here will always remember him, I certainly will. 

I´m praying that they let you adopt dad, I´m a sucker for white buns and those flopping ears are just so cute.


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## Ilovemyrabbit (Mar 27, 2013)

Yes it will be nice looking up at a star at night and see him twinkling in the sky. He was your lucky star.

Again, I'm so sorry you lost him. I will always remember the little bunny who finally got some love and health.

I love Lord Of The Rings so I think Gandalf would be the perfect name for the dad rabbit, and he does look like a Gandalf.

I really hope they let you adopt the dad rabbit. He would be so much better off with you. Why do they keep rabbits anyway?


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## candice136 (Mar 27, 2013)

hello, just think you will be able to look out your bedroom window at night and see him twinkling in the sky i hope they let you adopt and keep the male rabbit you would be a really good owner too it x RIP cute bunny x:bunnieskiss:bunnieskiss


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## Wittlewabbit (Mar 27, 2013)

Aww i read this whole thread start to finish im new to bunnys i just got mine 2 days ago but i also loveee animals im so glad that you took the time to care for these buns and help them thrive atleas Lucky Star had a amazing last few months he passed happy. I do hope u get to take little wizard wabbit back to canada with you !! and that those people dont get anymore rabbits ><


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## cornflakes (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks again to everyone. Your words of encouragement have really helped boost my spirits up. I've been constantly thinking about what I could have done to prevent this from happening. What eats at me most right now is wanting to know exactly what it was that he died of. I've narrowed it down to something he ate that was poisonous or an internal disease (bacterial?).
The more I gather information and try to put it together, the more I'm starting to believe it was bacterial.

Since I had last seen Lucky Star healthy at about 12noon and the groundskeeper told me he saw him in bad shape at 1pm, that means from the time of his illness to the time of his death (8pm) that was about 7hours. Can anyone tell me if poisoning usually takes 7 hours to kill a rabbit? Would it be much faster or even longer than 7 hours? If it's a disease like wryneck or e. cuniculi, from being symptomless to the sudden illness...does wryneck or cuniculi or other intestinal/bacterial disease kill in a 7 hour time frame? 

As I was thinking back, I do recall Lucky Star seemed to have a very thick, pasty, yellow urine at times...it wasn't thin and watery...but sometimes it looked very thick. Most of the poop I saw were round and dry but sometimes it was wet looking and sometimes I saw small splatters of poop....back then, i wasn't sure if that was just cuz they stepped in the poop with wet feet or maybe it was the weather (humidity on rainy days) that made the poop wet. But I feel that I should have looked and examined the poop carefully or even send some samples to a vet to get it analyzed and tested to make sure there was no bacterial disease. I wonder if it even had to do with the ear infection he had for such a long time? Is it possible during his weakened state of the ear infection (which I didn't know or treat until months after he was suffering from it), that he could have contracted a bacterial disease and even though the selemectin cured his ear infectoin (externally looked good), he may have been carrying a bacterial disease all this time (3 months) and now it took its toll or revealed itself?

Why I'm starting to rule out poisoning is because if it was insecticide or fertilizer (we have some small farms nearby), the dad rabbit would have been affected too right? But he seems perfectly fine. This seems more isolated to just Lucky Star and so it leads me to believe it may be a disease that finally manifested itself so in an attack on the body/nervous system?


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## cornflakes (Mar 27, 2013)

Oh, I overheard some ppl say now that the dad rabbit is alone...he could die of loneliness? Is this true? Do rabbits fall victim to depression and lose hope and will to want to live? I read the opposite was true that sometimes a rabbit that looks like it's on the brink of death can suddenly be ok when they are in the company of a companion.


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## woahlookitsme (Mar 27, 2013)

I actually have some experience with E.cuniculi. We had a bunny, Dino, die so very suddenly. My mom noticed he wasn't eating as much as he normally did. The next morning she saw he was lethargic and had runny stool. He died 5 hours after she noticed the diarrhea. He was perfectly fine but the only thing noticed was decreased appetite and then the other symptoms followed. This happened so suddenly I was in utter shock. I had a necropsy done and the suggested diagnosis was EC.
Here is my thread. http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f27/i-really-need-some-ideas-73565/


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## Ilovemyrabbit (Mar 27, 2013)

I agree with you, I think it was probably a bacterial death.

Rabbits usually get depressed from the loss of a friend, but no rabbits can't die of loneliness.


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## Imbrium (Mar 27, 2013)

actually, it's possible for a rabbit to die if they get so depressed they stop eating long enough to cause GI stasis and then the stasis goes untreated. however, that's not at all common, especially if he's getting daily attention from a human and has a lot of running around space (both of which are true). chances are, he'll be sad for a while and then bounce back. if you have a little extra time to spend with him, it certainly wouldn't hurt. keep an eye on him - as long as he's eating a decent amount each day and leaving poops behind, then there's absolutely no reason to worry.


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## JBun (Mar 27, 2013)

I really hope they let you have the dad. He'd be better off with you, plus you are the only one that seems to really care about him and making sure he is ok. 

It is a possibility for a rabbit to die of loneliness/depression if it decides to stop eating, after it's friend dies. He could be a little depressed or lonely, with his son gone, but as long as he seems happy to see you, and keeps eating, he should be ok.

I don't know that anything bacterial, is going to affect the hind limbs like what was going on with him. It sounds like he may have had bladder sludge, from what you described, but I don't know that it had anything to do with his death. Given the symptoms and rapid deterioration, I'm thinking e. cuniculi or poisoning. For it to be poisoning, it would have to be something only the baby was able to get a hold of and eat. Someone on here once had their rabbits eating poisonous mushrooms in their yard, that was causing hind limb paralysis, but I can't recall if any of them died.

E. cuniculi is a protozoa that can attack the brain, the nervous system, and/or the organs. It can progress slowly or rapidly. Many rabbits are carriers of it, but not all rabbits will be affected by it. My guess would be that it was e. cuniculi that caused this. Poisoning is a possibility, but considering the dad is ok, not as likely.


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## eclairemom (Mar 28, 2013)

:imsorry: so sad for your loss, I too have followed your story. Take comfort in the fact that you made a huge difference in Lucky Stars life over the last few months and he was able to be happy.


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## cornflakes (Mar 28, 2013)

Thanks. The dad is eating well still but after that he has nothing to do but sit by himself and his eyes are open but he looks like he's daydreaming.

What sort of toys could you suggest? I heard things like an old phone book or stuff like that he can chew on but how about one of those straw baskets? Would those be ok to chew on? Or some sort of straw/wooden ball that he can roll around and chew on?


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## Imbrium (Mar 28, 2013)

baskets and balls and such are ok as long as the wood is untreated. phone books and/or big cardboard boxes are AWESOME, but they can get quite messy and the cleaning guy will probably get pissed off at you again 

hard plastic baby keys, larger whiffle balls and plastic slinkies are also good bunny toys. really anything with untreated wood or hard plastic that they can grab in their teeth and toss or dig at and destroy is popular with bunnies. also tunnels. I know here, you can buy things called "cardboard forms" at a hardware store that are basically thick cardboard tunnels that can be both played in AND slowly destroyed. toilet paper rolls and paper towel rolls are also good as long as there's minimal glue. you can stuff them with hay and hide some little bits of veggies or fruit in there to make a dirt cheap foraging toy.


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## cornflakes (Apr 1, 2013)

thanks...will see what i can do!


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## whitelop (Apr 2, 2013)

Jenny, no her rabbits didn't die. I think she treated them with something because she thought it was EC but it was the mushrooms. 
I hadn't been following this for a while and I just read about Lucky Star today, oh my god, I'm so sad. 

Where are you in Korea? You should look into having rabbits shipped from Korea to Canada. They need a vet signed health certificate to be shipped and its expensive, but I think its totally do able. You could bring the dad rabbit back to Canada with you. I don't know if you would be able to fly with him in the cabin or if you would have to have him shipped through another company, because there are flight restrictions for American planes on the number of animals or whatever. But you should look into it. I don't want to think about whats going to happen to the dad bunny after you leave or if they get another pair of rabbits or another rabbit. 
I really hope you take him. I hope you can figure out a way to keep him and bring him back to Canada. If you at least got him back to Canada, there are rescues that could help you if you couldn't keep him. But he has a better chance of a good life in North America than he does in Korea. 

I hope it all works out. I'm sorry for the loss of the baby, but you gave him a really good life for the last few months of his life. He knew you loved him so much and he knew that you were the good person. I'm sure he was a happy bun and you did so much for them. Just make sure to give the big bun a little more attention to make sure he's doing okay.


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## cheezling (Apr 2, 2013)

I just read the entire thread.
It was really so touching... and sigh, such a sad ending.
I'm really hoping you can take the dad.
I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but your employer obviously doesn't care one bit so why won't didn't he let you take the rabbits? Why does he keep them in the first place? He obviously has no clue what he is doing and has let the little one suffer for so long.


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## KeltonB (Apr 6, 2013)

Cornflakes, how is the dad getting along?


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## Imbrium (Apr 7, 2013)

if you're interested in trying to take the dad back to Canada, you might skim through this thread - http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f40/flying-rabbits-66549/ - and PM cwolfec if you've got general questions about international travel with a rabbit. obviously, getting a rabbit from Korea to Canada will differ in some regards from getting a rabbit from Guam to the US, but the thread may still be helpful.


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## sarah92lynn (Apr 8, 2013)

Poor thing!! It does look a bit like ringworm to me too, but that bun definitely needs a vet! Have you mentioned anything to the owners? I'm sure they are probably aware but I would still say something.. 

EDIT: Ooops, silly me didnt bother to look at how many replies this had!! Definitely not ringworm! Haha


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## cornflakes (Apr 23, 2013)

KeltonB said:


> Cornflakes, how is the dad getting along?



Hi, well the dad rabbit has been lonely for sure as he's usually just sitting by himself daydreaming or something. But I go and see him about three times a day now at least. When I arrive, his ears prop up and his head too and so I think he likes to have some company....he stretches lhis body and legs as if he's ready to play now...i stay around for a few minutes feeding him carrots these days along with timothy hay. He seems to be healthy and fine...but I'm more careful to check his urine and poop these days...with Lucky Star...I should have noticed his urine was sludgy and yellow/milky which was probably a sign that it was intestinal or some sort of disease cuniculi?

So I'm more attentive to his urine and poop. For the most part his urine, his clear and watery ....looks like clear/clean and not pasty or sludgy...poop is nice and round and good size.

:bunny18


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## JBun (Apr 23, 2013)

Haha, you are sounding like a true bunny owner! We are always talking about our bunnies poop on here. You know when you start talking about bunny poop and checking it to make sure a rabbit is healthy, you are truly caught in the bunny love snare 

I'm sure the dad bun appreciates your company, so he does't feel quite as lonely.


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## PaGal (Apr 23, 2013)

You truly are doing a wonderful thing and I know it benefits you as much as it does your bun. I feel so much for the bun knowing just how spoiled all of our buns are and what amazing creatures they are so he deserves so much better.


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## cornflakes (May 28, 2013)

About a month ago, the place where I work got another 2 rabbits. These 2 rabbits look very young and they look like a different breed. The Dad rabbit is all white and really chubby but these rabbits look more like guinea pigs. They've been playing and fighting it seems everyday...but one of the new rabbits just gave birth to 2 babies and was biting off fur from the dad rabbit to make it's nest. The Dad rabbit now has some really bad bites marks all over his face and his fur has fallen off, but today his eye was all swollen up and it is now pussing. There is this whitish fluid building up around his eye and I'm not sure if it's an infection or something that will take care of itself or if this could be serious and lead to something worse.

I will take pictures and post them up. It was nice when he was alone even though he was probably lonely since Lucky Star died. But these 2 new young rabbits seem to give him headaches as they run around all over the place...maybe he likes it but with all the bite marks on his face and blood...i can't see how if this keeps up, that the company is good for him.

The female one was even biting off her own fur ...when i researched it, i read that it usually meant they were about to give birth and collecting materials for building a nest.


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## cornflakes (May 29, 2013)

pictures of the new rabbits...the one with the black eye patch
is the female...she was the worst...biting off fur from the dead and
I assume she's the one who bit his face and eye...the other one (orange)
is actually quite gentle and I never saw him biting...it's a male).


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## JBun (May 29, 2013)

Oh it just breaks my heart to see the dad bun like this. I really wish these people would stop getting rabbits that they don't properly care for. 

So it looks like the dad bun has conjunctivitis and it's pretty bad and needs to be treated right away, and he may also have wounds that are infected, and is going to need antibiotics to clear it up. Some antibiotics are deadly to rabbits, so the right ones have to be used and given correctly. Some are ok injected but not ok given orally. I've included the links for the safe and dangerous antibiotics for rabbits. Is there any way that vet can help you again? If the owner will let you take him into the vet, that would be the best thing. The dad bun will need ophthalmic antibiotic eye drops, an oral antibiotic like baytril which may need to be given for 2 weeks or longer. He may also need an anti inflammatory pain med like metacam for the first few days. Also when giving antibiotics, it's good to give pet probiotics as well, a couple hours after giving the dose of antibiotics. Dosage info for the meds is in the safe medication link, if you need it. Is he still eating and pooping ok, that you can tell? 

I don't know if any of this is possible, so let us know if something isn't going to work and we'll try and figure out something that will. You seem to be the only person that even cares about these rabbits. Thank goodness they have you!

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Safe_drugs_main.htm
http://www.medirabbit.com/Unsafe_medication/dangerous_antibiotics.htm
http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm
http://www.vetnext.com/search.php?s=onderwerp&id=73362261363%20288


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## cornflakes (May 29, 2013)

I just came back from the vet who gave me these meds....i think it's what you suggested. I also decided to get a steel fence to separate them. The vet was telling me I should separate the dad rabbit from the 2 new rabbits else he could die due to stress or if the biting keeps happening.
opthalmic antibiotic




oral antibiotic (they are in pouches...he said u have to mix it with water, use the feeding needle and give it to the rabbit twice a day for up to 6 days).




steel fence used for divider/barrier





I think the hard part will be grabbing the rabbit from the neck skin and putting the eye ointment in his eye + force feeding him the oral antibiotic....I hate having to forcibly hold him and stuff......I'll do it first thing tmrw morning when I get to work...but what about the weekend? I have 2 days off during the weekend where he won't get his meds....will the interruption be bad or is it ok? He said to give him the meds for 6 days.


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## JBun (May 29, 2013)

I think separating the dad is a good idea. Hopefully none of the buns are escape artists  The vets right, stress can kill a rabbit. It upsets their GI balance and can cause them to go off feed. So if the dad seems stressed by this new situation, the fence will help. That's great that you were able to get anti biotics. It's VERY important to check what the oral antibiotics are. Certain ones are fatal to rabbits. Can you see the name on the packet anywhere and also what the % or amount of the antibiotic is in the packet? Also do you see what kind of antibiotic the ophthalmic oinment is? 

Syringe feeding can be tricky. You could look at some videos on you tube. I usually sit the rabbit on my lap on a towel and hold on the back of the head/neck firmly to syringe meds. You might be able to mix the antibiotic with something tasty like a little fruit juice, applesauce, or banana(not too much though, you don't want to be feeding a lot of sugars to buns), and he may just take it willingly that way, without even having to pick him up. What might work best for putting in the eye oinment is not even picking him up, but just going and starting to pet him, then just apply it while you are petting him. Lots of luck


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## cornflakes (May 29, 2013)

English speaking vet is still not back this morning so I couldn't get answers but i used google translate and the EYE OINTMENT is:
Sulfate poly miksin
Neomycin
Dexamethasone

The oral antibiotic powder is unlabelled, so I'm still waiting to find out what exactly it is.
I'll wait another hour and call the vet back...hopefully the english speaking doc will be in.


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## tonyshuman (May 29, 2013)

Definitely do not use the oral antibiotic unless you find out what it is and if it's safe.
http://www.medirabbit.com/Unsafe_medication/dangerous_antibiotics.htm
The topical is probably ok but if the eye is lacerated at all, the steroid in it (dexamethasone) can be damaging.


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## cornflakes (May 30, 2013)

Doc told me the oral antibiotic has amoxicillin in it and 
couple other things...but mostly amoxicillin....the link above said it was listed as "dangerous" for oral....it even said never give amoxicillin orally....but I called another vet and he also confirmed and said it's ok for oral antibiotic for rabbits.

Anyways...i gave him his first days dose ...difficult as it was...he wouldn't stay still for it....tried my best. I'll be giving it the next 5 days.


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## whitelop (May 30, 2013)

It says that amoxicillian gives diarrhea after administered orally. So I would keep a lot more hay out there for him, for him to eat and try to keep everything as normal as possible. And make sure he has a lot of water because if he gets diarrhea, he could get dehydrated and thats not good. Rabbits get dehydrated very quickly and it can become really dangerous for them. So if I were you, I would give him extra water and extra hay while you're giving him the antibiotics. 

I hope the antibiotics help him!


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## cornflakes (May 30, 2013)

Yes, I read that too. I found it very strange that those sites said how bad amoxicillin is for rabbits if given orally...but the vets here all said it's fine. Somebody must be wrong? I'll look out for any diarrhea in the coming days. Since he wouldn't stay still for me to feed him the antibiotic, probably half or more of it just ended up on the ground or on his fur. I think he only got a quarter of the actual liquid in his mouth lol.

I decided to pour some on the carrot pieces and he was eating the carrot along with the antibiotic on it lol. I decided for tomorrow's attempt, I will pre-cut the carrot sticks with a groove in the middle (so it acts like a "slide"). Then I'll angle the carrot up high so he has to tilt his head back and reach a bit to eat the carrot stick...while he does so, I will pour the antibiotic liquid down the carrot groove and hopefully he'll get most of it in his mouth. 

Administering the eye cream has been difficult too. Since he's a wild rabbit, he won't stay still for me to put it in his eye. Unfortunately, this isn't a droplet. It's an actual jelly cream that has to be put in his eye! I have to be careful not to damage his eye with the tip of the tube....I washed my hands and made sure they're clean cuz I'll try to massage or rub it in his eye if I miss.

Another thing is, I put the steel fence and divided the pen now. But sometimes it seems they want to reach each other still (the new male and the dad rabbit). The new female rabbit (black eye patch) was the only biting fur and being aggressive during her pregnancy phase. The other one (orange eye patch) was actually very gentle and similar to the dad rabbit. But since I have separated the 2 new rabbits from the dad rabbit, it seems that the orange eye patch tries to reach out to the dad rabbit....maybe they liked each other. Unfortunately, I put him with the black eye patch rabbit since they came together at the same time....guilty by association? (just to be safe).

The weekend is coming up and nobody will be able to administer the meds for 2 days. I was thinking, should I take the dad rabbit home with me for the weekend to administer the meds? Or will missing 2 days not be a serious problem (then I just resume the meds on Monday when I'm back)?


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## Ilovemyrabbit (May 30, 2013)

I don't know much about the matter, but I just wanted to say that I'm really sorry about the condition the poor dad rabbit is in. And I hope he clears up soon. He's really lucky to have you. And it seems like your doing the right thing by getting him antibiotics. The poor bunny, I really hope he gets well soon. I'll be praying and thinking of him often ray:. Keep us updated.


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## cornflakes (May 30, 2013)

This of course has made me think about Lucky Star again.... I wonder why when he had the ear infection, I was only given medication for the ear infection (revolution)....but no sort of oral antibiotic?? It makes me think that since Lucky Star had the ear infection for so long and it went untreated, it may have spread deeper in his system? So even though the ear infection was cured and dealt with, physically he was looking better and healing up, but could that have also been the time when he may have either contracted another infection/virus/bacterial? I'm still so mad about that. The problem with language barrier and cultural differences, I'm starting to feel like these korean vets don't really give a ****. They'll just give me the bare necessity but not give me a heads up warning about what other illness or risk of disease he may have incurred. 
I was just so focused on the ear infection, when I saw that it was getting better, I didn't think at all about the possibility there may have been something else internal that I couldn't see. So we were just happy to see his ears got better and fur was growing back...but then one day BAM...he just loses all coordination and dies within 12 hours. 

I know I should only have a good thoughts and memories....but I'm still overwhelmed with frustration and anger that somebody didn't know better to suggest to me that he may have had an internal disease that could have been cured or treated at around the same time as his ear infection. The reason why it made me think this is because when I read about the eye infection for the dad rabbit yesterday, it said something like, if the eye infection is not treated, it could spread to the brain, attack the nervous system (thus lose coordination) and lead to death. Then when I read the medication on the eye ointment...one of the ingredients role was a nervous system blocker or something that would inhibit or block the infection from spreading to the nerves and brain....

So when Lucky had the ear infection for about 6-8 months untreated....then finally I got him treated....could something have gotten through to his nervous system or brain? Even though the exterior ear infection all cleared up and the crust fell off and the fur re-grew.....3 months later, he gets like a sudden stroke or attack of something that exhibited symptoms an internal bacterial infection, affecting both his urine and his brain (the loss of coordination would indicate it was a brain attack). He wasn't paralyzed...he could move his legs front and back fine...it was just all out of whack and coordination....so it must've been some slowly processing infection that was slowly deteriorating his brain until the final day it suddenly manifested itself externally and he died within 12 hours.

I wish I could have had an autopsy done to know exactly what happened....but since I don't know and probably never will...I'm just always angry when I think back ....if someone (the vet) could have suggested or warned me of possible risks and take precautionary tests....I WOULD HAVE. I don't know...it just feels like he didn't have to die...there was a window of opportunity to save him and the ear infection wasn't the only issue then, but it was the only one that was externally evident.


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## whitelop (May 30, 2013)

Well he had ear mites then and the revolution took care of the mites, but like you said you didn't get any antibiotics to fight what was probably going on in the inside BECAUSE of the mites. 
I think there is a huge cultural difference between the way people take care of their animals in other countries. Which is really crappy. I would be a little cautious of the vets over there because they might not be as rabbit savvy as other vets. 
When do you come back to Canada? This fall? Maybe you could ask the people that you work for to let you have the dad rabbit? You could ship him or probably bring him as a carry on on the plane, depending on what airline you take. Then in Canada he would have a happy life we you or you could find someone else to take him and give him a good home if you didn't want the responsibility of him. 

I think if you just try to get as much of everything into his during each dose, its going to help. Like with my cats, I have one that fights me and only gets half doses but it usually makes her better even still. 
Or if giving him the whole dose isn't working that well, you could split it up into two different dosing times, like when you get there and before you leave just half the dose each time. That might be easier to give to him. And then try to put a little bit of eye ointment on his eye each time you try to give him the antibiotics. 
I don't know about the 2 days that you won't be there. I think maybe you should take him home with you, but you wouldn't want to put any added stress on him. So either way, its difficult. Maybe someone else could help you with what would happen with the antibiotics. 

Do the people who own the rabbits understand that the male and female that are together will just continue to breed and the female will have back to back litters? Like as soon as females have the litter of kits, they can get pregnant again so they would have a 4 week old litter of kits then have newborn kits. Thats not very good for her. Rabbits don't go into heat like other animals do, they're induced ovulators so when they mate they drop eggs to be fertilized. 
Anyway, I hope they know that and if not, then the male should be separated from the female at some point to give her a break.


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## JBun (May 30, 2013)

Please, *DO NOT* give any more of the amoxicillin. There is a reason it is on the dangerous antibiotics list, it can be fatal if given orally to rabbits. It kills off the good bacteria in their gut, and allows bad bacteria to flourish and cause fatal diarrhea. Once this happens to a rabbit it takes many meds to even have a possibility of clearing up, but quite often can't be. Diarrhea in a rabbit is a critical situation, it's not the same as it is with us. Once a rabbit gets diarrhea, it often dies. The dad would be better off not getting the oral antibiotic, and just try the eye ointment if you can't get a hold of a *safe* antibiotic for rabbits. You'll want to keep a very close eye on the dads poop to see if the little that he got, caused any problems. If you can't get a hold of any probiotics, it might be best to try the ophthalmic antibiotics first, without the oral one, to see if that is going to work. Oral antibiotics should really be given with non dairy probiotics. If you find the eye infection isn't clearing up with just the eye ointment, then maybe try oral antibiotics that are safe for the dad bun to take. For safer antibiotics, the safest one is enrofloxacin, oxytetracycline might be a possibility and more readily available where you are(always make sure dosages are correct). But you want to ask for one of these specific antibiotics, and don't just let them give you whatever they want.

I would suggest not bringing the dad bun home with you. I think it would cause him a lot of stress to leave the environment he is used to, and with an already sick rabbit, stress can sometimes be fatal to them. Probably the best thing to do would be apply the ointment right before you leave for the weekend, and reapply it right when you get back. When you are there, if you can at least apply it 3x a day, that will help give the best chance of it helping to clear up the infection. A trick I used with my buns to apply the eye ointment, was to wash my hands, then apply a bit of the ointment on the end of my finger, then use my finger to get it onto the corner of the eye. I also felt better not putting tip of the ointment tube near their eye, cause I was worried they would move when I did it and it would hit the eye.

It's pretty normal for a pregnant female bun to fight with a male that is trying to mate with her, so that would be what happened to the dad. And it's understandable that he still wants to be with the other rabbits even after being beat up. You'll want to make sure he's eating ok after being separated from the other rabbits. If they were getting along at that point, it might actually stress him to be separated from them.

I think Lucky Star may just have had a weak immune system, that made him susceptible to more easily catching something. What happened to him probably didn't have anything to do with his ear problem. That was caused by ear mites and not an ear infection. It's possible he could have also had an ear infection, but I think after his ears healed from the ear mites, that you would have noticed signs of his ears bothering him. Rabbits can be so sensitive and fragile, and they hide illness well, it can be hard to catch when they are sick sometimes. I know, it's horrible to loose them, and it can happen so fast. I lost a little bun last year, and it still upsets me and makes me sad.


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## kmaben (May 30, 2013)

Jen has a valid reason on taking the dad bun home. However, is it a possibility to take the rabbit home, say he died, and not get in trouble at work?


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## cornflakes (May 31, 2013)

Sorry I just read the last 2 posts rightn now and I had already I decided to to bring him home for the weekend. I got permission cuz I told them I was taking him to the doctors and that he needed someone to give him meds for 6 days in a row. The bus ride home was nerve racking for him and for me cuz I could tell he was stressed being in the box for the 20 minute ride. When I got him home, I set up his little area quickly and put some unused soft blankets and stuff....I made one section open and the other enclosed (since they like the secure feeling). After investigating for a couple of minutes his new surroundings, he went into the dark corner and sat on the soft blankets...he automatically goes there all the time now to lie down and rest or sleep after eating a bit.

Here are a couple pictures. 














I put that fence to split the rabbits up but somehow they still found a way to get to the other side and I found them laying together. When I bring him back, I'll keep using that steel fence...at least until he's completely better and then slowly see if they can be together. The biting may have only happened since the new rabbit was pregnant and building her fur nest.


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## whitelop (May 31, 2013)

He actually looks pretty comfortable there. BUT that is A LOT of carrots! haha. They don't need that many, like half to one of those sticks is plenty! Are you still giving him hay? Make sure he's still eating it, thats super important especially since he's stressed out. 

He's such a handsome boy, poor thing.


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## cornflakes (May 31, 2013)

I forgot the hay at work! I left all my stash there. I'll have to go and buy some for the time being. Oh, I didn't know that was too many carrots. I checked his poop and they're smaller and more irregular shaped now...not those big round cecotropes. I don't know if it's because he's just eating less since the eye infection or if the meds might be giving him a bit of an upset stomach? 

I found the translation of the oral antibiotic and it's Amoxicillin, Previcox (couldn't find much info about this), and Ibuprofen .... i'm getting some "don't give him that!" but the vets here are saying to me it's fine. Not sure exactly what to do...I'll just give him a little and try not to do the full dosage if his poop is looking worse.

The eye ointment has Neomycin (3.5mg) and polymixin B sulfate 

Besides the wetness in his fur and white pus from his eye....it seems a little swollen around the eye....when should I start to see improvements and when I should I be worried if there is no improvement? Say about 4-6 days?

Should I apply some eye ointment on the other eye too just to be safe? I am aware of not infecting the other eye by using the same finger i used to rub on the infected eye.


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## KeltonB (May 31, 2013)

Dad looks so at home there! I am glad you decided to take him home. I wonder if the people you work for would even miss him if you "forgot" to take him back? Or could you buy the rabbit from them? I'd send you some money for sure.

Thank you for taking care of him!:bunnyheart


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## JBun (May 31, 2013)

Actually, the dad bun looks completely relaxed and happy. If he was stressed he would most likely be hiding hunched up in the corner and making very skittish movements, but he's laying down, chewing on toys, those are signs of a content little guy  Glad I was wrong, and you missed my note and brought him home. Maybe you could just keep him. They won't miss him, right 

I'm still insistant on the amoxicillin being dangerous to give him. Even here in the US, there are vets that aren't very experienced with rabbits, and make the same mistake of prescribing amoxicillin. So even though they are vets, if they aren't rabbit vets, and have specific training with rabbits, vets will make this mistake. They think that because it is ok for other animals, that it should be ok for rabbits too, but rabbits digestive systems are different than other pet animals like dogs or cats. Rabbits are hind gut fermenters, and are more like horses in how they digest food. Rabbits rely on the balance of good bacteria in their GI tract, to digest their food and keep things flowing normally. The smaller irregular shaped poop that you are now seeing, is a first sign of a GI slowdown called stasis. This is the beginning sign of the bacterial balance being disrupted. If it isn't corrected, it could continue to deteriorate and you can end up with soft mushy poop, diarrhea, and/or a blockage. Both a blockage and diarrhea can end up being fatal. I'll include some info and warnings about giving amoxicillin, as well as a good explaination of the basic function of the rabbit GI and what happens when the bacterial balance is disrupted. If you really feel he needs antibiotics, getting *injections* of penicillin would be ok, or for oral antibiotics, call the vet and ask if they have enrofloxacin, oxytetracycline, or even neomycin which can have some side effects, would be better.

With the dad bun showing signs of stasis, I would suggest not feeding any sugary treats, like carrots, and feeding lots of hay. That will help get the gut moving better again. The more grass hay you feed, the better. A little leafy greens, like parsley, would be ok as a treat, unless you start seeing soft poop or diarrhea. If you do start seeing actual watery diarrhea, not just soft mushy poop, or he stops pooping, then it is an emergency. Here is info on what to do for and what meds to give for, GI stasis(pooping stops) and diarrhea, just in case you end up needing it. Hopefully you don't, but I wanted to give you the info for if you find yourself in this situation. And I just want to commend you for helping this little guy. Not everyone would bother to help an animal not their own, and especially in a foreign country.

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/squirts.pdf

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/1/amoxicillin-warning.html
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/exotic_and_laboratory_animals/rabbits/management_of_rabbits.html
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=484#.UZ8FPbx7LTo.twitter

*ankara"*
Post 3
"The article mentions that amoxicillin antibiotic can be prescribed for cats and dogs. That's true, it can be. But some veterinarians make the assumption that amoxicillin can also be given to other animals and that is not true.

I had a pet rabbit die because the veterinarian prescribed amoxicillin trihydrate for her. She developed a severe diarrhea after two days of taking the antibiotic and the next morning, I lost her.
I found out later that amoxicillin is toxic to rabbits and causes enterotoxemia. It's a condition where toxins from the intestines enter the bloodstream and eventually cause death. So if anyone is thinking about giving their pets this antibiotic, only do if the pet is a dog or cat and at the recommended dose. I wouldn't want what happened to me to happen to anyone else."


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## kmaben (May 31, 2013)

I'm in agreeance with the amoxocillin. To much research out there shows Amoxicillin dangerous to rabbits. There is a thread on here between vets talking about even the injectable and how much is to much. 
The eye ointment is just fine for his poor eye. (Thank you Shya for the very indepth learning on rabbit eyes.) It should start to look better in more like 7-10 days. It wont hurt to stick it in the other eye but its like taking a tylenol when you dont have a headache. If he's not showing any signs or symptoms of infection in the good eye I'd leave him be. But keep that oinment just in case. Lots o Hay, hay hay! He'll have tummy issues from the move, carrots, getting handled for medicating and the medications themselves. Nothing hay, fresh water, and some TLC wont cure. I'm wondering if I couldnt find missycove or Geoff to chime in on an antibiotic you could request specifically.
He looks rather content and quite at home *hint hint* :whistling
Scaredy rabbits wont interact with toys like Jen said or splay legs out like that. He probably wouldnt be that difficult to tame either and be a loving companion. Plus those ears are mighty hard to resist!
Some countrys dont even care about their people let alone animals. Romania has no reguard for animals as pets and only has one shelter in the entire country. They aren't third world or "backwards" just the country mentality much like the Koreans. You want to save them all but simply cant. It's amazing what you're doing for this one little guy right in front of you.


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## ZoeStevens (May 31, 2013)

I would treat both eyes... he could easily rub his face on something on one side, then on the other, and transmit the infection to the other side of his face (it's only a couple inches away, after all), and by the time you notice and treat the second eye the infection could be more resistant to treatment.

And, as you know, be sure not to touch the tip of the ointment tube to the eye. I wouldn't be touch it to your finger. Either let it drip onto your finger (as opposed to wiping your finger against it) or put it on a q-tip and then transfer to your finger.


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## cornflakes (Jun 1, 2013)

Thanks for all that information. This is very disturbing news to hear how bad amoxicillin can be for rabbits and WHY the vets here prescribed it. His poop is definitely smaller and not big and round cecotropes. Actually, i'm not sure if he's pooping a lot now...I saw his rear end and it looks like there's one or two big poops stuck there...just hanging on there.... He's not eating the hay too well....he only wants the other foods (there's this fruit/veggie pellet food that he really likes). I tried feeding him the hay but he doesn't eat it. 

I will stop feeding him the oral antibiotic from this moment on ...we're only 2.5 days in. I hope he's not going into GI Stasis.... not sure how else to get him to eat the hay. I won't give him any carrots either for now. Also, he was disturbed today by construction noise going on in our building. It seemed to startle him because he's been breathing really fast all day today....his nose is twitching super fast and his breathing is short and very fast...he lays down a lot and just rests...but the fast breathing isn't really stopping....not sure if that is a sign related to onset GI stasis?


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## PaGal (Jun 1, 2013)

Can you find a cardboard box big enough for him to fit into? If so you could put that in his area for him to hide in. That may help him to feel safer from the construction noises.

If you haven't done so yet you could try hand feeding him the hay. Sometimes if you also hold some hay and just keep holding it near his mouth he may decide to eat some.


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## PaGal (Jun 1, 2013)

Can you find a cardboard box big enough for him to fit into? If so you could put that in his area for him to hide in. That may help him to feel safer from the construction noises.

If you haven't done so yet you could try hand feeding him the hay. Sometimes if you also hold some hay and just keep holding it near his mouth he may decide to eat some. 

You could also sprinkle a few pellets in his hay so that he has to forage to get the pellets and he may decide to eat some hay.


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## cornflakes (Jun 2, 2013)

The good news today is that I saw some poop again after not seeing any for a few hours. They were also a bit bigger and rounder now in shape. I didn't give hiim the oral antiobitic (amoxicillin) since yesterday morning, only the eye ointment. I handfed him the hay (he really likes the hairy/bushy part more than the stem...that's all he would eat from me so I picked out all the bushy pieces). I also fed him some dark green lettuce (not iceberg) and parsley. I also did a bit of tummy massaging sessions a few times so not really sure if all or some of those things helped. Hopefully he won't need the oral antibiotic unless i can get a safer one. 

I'm wondering if the poop issue might have been due to him being moved to my house and was stressed by the change + the construction noise...now that he's had almost 2 days here he might be calming down and less stressed? SO it's either the not using the oral antibiotic is what helped him get his poop better or that he has less stress now after being in my place for 2 days now. 

His eye seems to be slowly getting better....still wet around the fur...but i think it's looking a tiny bit better each day.

He's such a well behaved rabbit. I leave the cage door open all the time now and he doesn't even come out much. When he does come out, he just wanders the room for 2 minutes and then quickly scurries back into the cage lol.

Once I was working on my computer and he came into pop his head and have a look lol.


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## cornflakes (Jun 2, 2013)

Some short clips i took:
Video


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## cornflakes (Jun 2, 2013)

He's been breathing really fast today....it's quiet here (after 4pm) and there should be no stresses...he's eating well, and peeing and pooping (poop is a bit bigger and rounder but wetter today). But his breathing is really fast...his nose twitches like crazy fast. I'm worried it might be the infection spreading since I stopped giving him the oral antibiotic.

It's like a no win situation. If I give him the oral antibiotic, he could go into GI Stasis and die. If I don't give him the antibiotic, the infection could spread and kill him? 

I'll have to call the vet and see if he has any other antibiotic (one of the safe ones someone mentioned earlier) but chances are he doesn't have it....else, why would he give me the amoxicillin??? This makes me very mad.


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## cornflakes (Jun 2, 2013)

Here's a short clip of his breathing i just took now.
Video


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## JBun (Jun 2, 2013)

Is it maybe hot inside your home right now? That would cause fast breathing, and you would need to help him cool down with a frozen water bottle to lay next to, wiping his ears with cool water, and/or putting ice cubes in his water dish. If his ears are hot, then he's hot and needs help cooling down.

If it's not the heat, then fast breathing will happen when they aren't feeling well. If it's his stomach, things to look out for are reduced appetite or not eating, grinding teeth, changing positions frequently, sitting hunched up, and/or a distended belly. You can also check his ears. If they are cold, then he is probably feeling some pain. You can help warm him up with a warm pack or warm towels. I don't know if it's possible for you to get a pet probiotic, like Bene Bac. If he starts having digestive problems, that would really help. Or if you can find a non dairy probiotic. If he stops eating you'll want to have a few things on hand to try and help him. Infant gas drops(simethicone) for if he has gas, if you can get some dog metacam suspension liquid (1.5mg/ml) to help control pain(dosage 0.1-0.2mg/kg, up to 0.6 if needed, once every 12-24 hrs), some syringes without needles( 1cc for meds, 3-12cc for feeding), a soft food that you can syringe feed him if he stops eating(oxbow critical care if you can get it, is the best, or you can soak his pellets in warm water- may also have to blend in blender to get it smooth enough to syring feed, or plain canned pumpkin( not pie filling with spices, nothing else added to it). If his gut bacteria is off balance now then it's going to be a challenge to get that under control. Don't feed him any sugars, carbs, staches, grains, and start a probiotic if you were able to get it, and feed grass hay.

It is a possibility too, that him having different foods that he's not used to, has upset his stomach. Feeding grass hay is the best thing at this point, but I know that can be hard if he won't eat it.

I can't say for sure, but I don't think it's the infection spreading that is the problem. If that were the case you would probably be seeing other signs of it, like his eye bulging, or possibly cloudiness in his eye.


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## KeltonB (Jun 2, 2013)

This fella has been through so much, I really hope he makes a full recovery. You are doing a great job, especially with the lack of a rabbit specialist vet. There is a big place in my heart for this bunny


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## JBun (Jun 2, 2013)

I watched the video again and that nose is moving pretty fast. He seems pretty distressed. If it's heat, you need to get him cooled down right away. If it's pain causing it, can you get him to the vet or get some metacam from the vet for him, or whatever else he might need at this point. I would just suggest, if you do get meds from the vet, to double check the medirabbit list, to make sure the med is rabbit safe, and at the right dosage. Sorry, he's not feeling good. Having a sick bun can be stressful. I had one last night and couldn't sleep til I saw she was feeling better and eating again. I hope you are able to get what's wrong with him sorted out.


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## tonyshuman (Jun 2, 2013)

I think he looks pretty distressed. You should be able to get an acceptable oral antibiotic, like baytril or zithromax in Ontario. If he has had oral amoxicillin, it's extremely dangerous and he will need to see an emergency vet that knows something about rabbits immediately. Did you look on the HRS webpage? rabbit.org


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## kmaben (Jun 2, 2013)

Do you have any of that stuff available to you? Would be more than happy to send out a care package. Of course it doesnt help with the right now but it's always a good practice to have it on hand. It can be difficult to find in that part of the world, not to mention the translating piece.


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## tonyshuman (Jun 2, 2013)

Sorry, I didn't realize you are in Korea, since your profile says Canada. You can probably still get zithromax there, and the amoxicillin can be formulated for injection and given that way. Ciprofloxacin can be given (bio-equivalent to enrofloxacin, aka Baytril), and that is usually easy to find. Sometimes it is easier to find chloramphenicol outside of the US, and that could be a good choice as well.
http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm


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## cornflakes (Jun 2, 2013)

thank you all to those extremely helpful responses.
My place was about 28 degrees celsius (according to digital temp. reader). It didn't feel too hot for me. Anyways, I gave him cold water (left an icepack in the bowl) and he seemed to really like it...he was drinking a lot.

The good news is he's eating well...always looking to munch on stuff and he is also peeing and pooping a lot again. He wasn't hunched over, but he did like to lay down a lot...he spread out his back legs, or he lay on his side, or he'd look actually very comfortable laying down....it was just his rapid breathing that was shaking his ears and twitching his nose so fast it just doesn't look comforting. Anyways, today is Monday and I brought him back to the workplace. He's been living there for i think 5 or 7 years (before I came) so I'm sure he feels at home again...even if it's not that pretty of a place. I put the steel fence up to separate the 2 new rabbits there cuz as soon I put him back there, they were chasing him again and he was just running his ass off.

I hate how the ppl here tell me how he's such a big rabbit that he should be stronger and overpower the little rabbit. I kept telling them it's not like that. He might look big and be much bigger, but he's extremely gentle and sensitive...he wouldn't hurt a fly. But those little ones are extremely aggressive and not scared to touched by humans either....they must've been handled by human owners previously? They don't seem sensitive either...i can touch them, grab them, push them, flick them, and they just keep coming back for more. 

The dad rabbit as I explained earlier is just so gentle and courteous. Even when I open the cage door, 98% of the time he stays in the cage. When he does come out, he just investigates and doesn't cause a mess or damages anything...he just runs back to his cage. 

This morning, even when lifted the cage up to fold it up and pack it to go, he stayed in that zone. He barely left the blanket to look around.....I could have probably just removed the cage altogether and he'd stay in his corner.

I'll call the vet or other vets that I can find now and ask if they have any of the aforementioned safe antibiotics. I'll also question them as to why they think oral amoxicillin as antibiotic is ok for rabbits. That's extremely disturbing that they'd prescribe that to me when it'd probably kill the rabbit.


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## cornflakes (Jun 2, 2013)

Here's a video clip I took this morning....he likes to sit on top of this plastic barrel container
...i guess he feels safer up there. The 2 new rabbits (one male and one female) also had 2 babies last week...u can see them here...all that white fur they are covered in probably comes from the dad rabbit that the mother was biting off a couple weeks ago.
Video


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## cornflakes (Jun 2, 2013)

ok just talked to the vet now and asked him...he said he has enrofloxacin (baytril) but only in injection form, not oral.

He also has ciprofloxacin and in oral form, but he told me that it's very strong that it's dangerous for the rabbit. He said the dosage would have to be so small but it's dangerous. Does anyone know the exact dosage that he should make out for ciprofloxacin if i choose to get it from him? He said he can give it to me if I really want it but he did warn me it's too strong for rabbits.

I told him the rabbit's eye looks like it's getting better slightly (maybe 10% improvement over 3 days ago), and he thinks i don't need the oral antibiotic now, so I told him I'd wait another 24 hours or so and let him know.

Which is the safest with the least amount of side effects for rabbits?
Enrofloxacin (Baytril)
Ciprofloxacin
Chloramphenicol
Zithromax


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## JBun (Jun 2, 2013)

I'm thinking that maybe it would be good to hold off on the oral or injected antibiotics as well. As long as the infection in the eye continues to show progress that it's healing, it might be better to continue with that for another week to see if it clears it up. I'm just concerned that giving oral antibiotics, even though those ones listed are safer for rabbits, sometimes they can still disrupt the gut flora, and with you being in korea and maybe not having access to what might be needed if that happens, it might be better to stick with the ointment and give it a chance. If the infection in the eye seems to be getting worse, or if at the end of the week the eye isn't significantly better, then oral or injected antibiotics are probably going to be needed to clear up the infection. I don't know how often the vet said to put the oinment on, but if you can put it on 2-3 times a day, it will probably have a greater chance of healing with just the ointment.

I'm pretty sure baytril is considered the safest abx for rabbits. It seems to be the one most often prescribed here. I'm not sure about the others. Hopefully tonyshuman will comment on that. Maybe it would be possible for the vet to compound the injectable baytril with a compounding sweetener so you could give it orally. So if you end up needing an oral abx, maybe that is an option.


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## cornflakes (Jun 3, 2013)

ok, i'll wait a bit longer.

I hope that the fast breathing doesn't have anything to do with the infection.
That's why I was concerned and thinking about restarting the oral antibiotics.


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## JBun (Jun 3, 2013)

I was going to also say that from the video from your place, the dad bun does look like a very calm well adjusted rabbit. I was amazed that he went from his home to yours, and didn't seem stressed at all. He would make a good house bunny  It's too bad these new buns are so territorial. I guess they could get to the point where they got along, but the poor dad bun would probably get beat up in the process. Rabbit fights can even end in death. They can be pretty vicious when it comes to territory. The dad truly must be a big sweetheart if he's letting these rabbits come into his territory and just take it over without putting up much of a fight.

I'm glad he's got a little perch he can hide out on. As much as I dislike the other rabbits beating him up, and the conditions these rabbits are in, I will say that I'm a sucker for the babies. They're really cute. So does it look like the babies have black bands around both their eyes? The breed of some of my rabbits is like that, but the look of my rabbits is a little different. Just wait til those babies are about 2-4 weeks old. They are so cute and cuddly at that age, you'll love it 

I think the breathing was just due to the heat. If the infection was getting worse, I don't think you would be seeing improvement around his eye.


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## cornflakes (Jun 3, 2013)

thanks...that's good news to hear. Yeah, I can't believe how incredibly well behaved the dad rabbit is. I miss not having him in my place now lol. I just washed the blankets and the house area today and the smell reminds me of him. Yeah, the babies are so adorable...they have the black band around their eyes just like the mom. I wonder why those 2 new rabbits are so different? Are they a different breed with different personality as the dad rabbit? They are constantly sniffing at the steel fence and looking through it probably trying to figure out a way to get to the other side. I can literally rough up their faces as I'm petting them and they don't get scared or back off. It's such a contrast with the dad rabbit who gets scared and sensitive when i touch him....so i try to pat him gently. 

Is there anything i should prepare for when those babies get a bit bigger? They are only in their 2nd week i believe. What do I do once they start walking around? They eat different food? Any concerns about them getting sick? What can I do to make sure they can be as healthy as possible and have a chance to grow up?


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## JBun (Jun 3, 2013)

The new rabbits being different, can have to do a little with breed, but it will also have to do with individual personality, as well as how much they've been handled by people. The dad sounds like he has a gentle more laid back personality, but also a little skittish cause he isn't used to being handled by people. These new rabbits sound like at least one of them is more dominant (with the aggression towards the dad bun) and they may have a more hyper personality, and it also sounds like they are used to human interaction, so what you do doesn't make them nervous or scare them.

Around 11 days the babies eyes will start to open, and not long after that they will start trying to venture out of the nest. I couldn't tell exactly what their nest situation is, but once they start coming out of the nest, will they be able to get back into it to snuggle up and stay warm when they sleep? Usually the biggest difficulty with babies is that they can sometimes have a hard time with the change over to solid food. When they start coming out of the nest and nibbling on their mom's food, you could start checking their bums every day, to make sure they don't have soft poop sticking to their bums. If it happens, it can actually dry on there and basically, clog up the opening. For signs of illness, it's pretty much the same ones you would see with an adult rabbit. Sitting hunched up or lethargic, not wanting to eat when they usually would, grinding teeth(different than contented tooth purring). Hopefully they don't get sick, as it can be pretty hard to save them. Usually there isn't a problem, so they should grow up just fine. Having grass hay would help. I wish these people fed the rabbits hay. Even a clean(not moldy) oat or wheat straw would be better than nothing. You could try feeding the babies a little grass hay. If they don't have hay in their nest, it actually might be a good idea to put some around there after their eyes open, then they can start nibbling on it(as long as the big bunnies don't eat it  ). You don't want to give the babies treats or veggies, unless veggies is something the momma regularly gets and they are used to nibbling on them too. Sudden introduction of veggies and treats to babies, can cause mushy poop and digestive upset. Another thing to watch for is that the other rabbit isn't hurting the babies in any way. Other than all that, enjoy the fun of them, and get your snuggles in. After about 4 weeks old, they are usually to hyper to hold still for snuggles


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## cornflakes (Jun 4, 2013)

Thanks for that heads up. When you say 'grass hay' is that a specific type of hay or is that the general name given to many types of hay such as Timothy Hay? Yes, I feed them timothy hay everyday. They really like it...especially the 2 new rabbits.

I have another dilemma approaching. My weekend will start on Thursday. Wednesday is the last day of work for the week. Then I won't be back until Monday. The dad rabbit's eye is still producing a lot of white/sort of caramel color pus and the fur around the eye and nose area is always wet/clumped (maybe has to do with the dad licking his paw or feet and rubbing it there). When I said the eye looked like it was getting better, mainly it was the cut below the eye that had swollen up. The swelling has gone down and the dry blood of the cut under the eye looks to be healing...but maybe that is different from the actual eye infection? So I don't know for sure if the eye infection is going away...only that the cut looks to be healing and the swelling has gone done...but still a lot of wet pus and white/caramel around the eyes. I don't know what will happen during the 4 days i'm gone and he gets no meds.

It was last Thursday that I started giving him the eye ointment....today here is Tuesday, so it's been 6 days and I'll only have tomorrow left to see him and determine whether his eye infection is in fact going away or staying the same. It doesn't look like it's getting worse at least...

Not sure if I should try and get the oral antibiotic. I'll ask if the during the closing days, if there is a way I can still access the grounds just to see the rabbit and apply the eye ointment at least once a day during those 4 days off. Originally, the vet said the meds would last 6 days (but that was the oral antibiotic) and the eye ointment, he said just to use it all up until the tube is empty or the infection is completely gone. I'd say the tube is about 60% done and I've been giving it to him twice a day for the last 6 days now...couple days I actually gave it to him 3 times.


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## cornflakes (Jun 5, 2013)

I've been doing more research and I'm getting a lot of hits on "abscesses" when I look for "eye infections". However, I do not think what dad rabbit has is an abscesses. Am I correct? Based on the photo I uploaded a couple pages back, can anyone tell if this is clearly not an issue of abscesses or not? He still has white pus around the eye or mainly the bottom corner...wet fur still under the eye and near the nose area...but I don't see any sort of "cloudiness in the eye" or some sort of giant wart or bulging zit ...it's just an accumulation of white pus ....I just want to make sure that I'm not dealing with abscesses so that I can solely just focus on eye infection.

It's now exactly 7 days since i started treatment (only eye ointment, oral antibiotic (amoxicillin) stopped after 2 days due to signs of it messing with his GI). While it doesn't appear to be worse, I can't say it looks to be much better either....only the cut under the eye (on the skin) seems to be healing and the swelling gone down but not the white pus and wetness around his eye. I'm starting to think I should get an oral antibiotic (ciprofloxacin) and start giving it to him. My local vet only has enrofloxacin (baytril) in injection form and cipro in oral form. 

What do you guys think? Should I still wait longer and hold out on the cipro or should I get it now and start giving it to him along with the eye ointment.

I keep reading how since rabbits have eye nerves that directly connect to the brain, eye infections can lead to brain infection and death. I don't know if me waiting this long is OK or if this is the "red zone" and I should start getting a move on getting the next medication?


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## JBun (Jun 5, 2013)

Abscesses are possible but hopefully won't happen as they can be very hard to clear up. If the eye hasn't showed a good amount of improvement then it looks like the oral antibiotics are going to be needed. The cipro is ok orally, as is the zithromax and chloramphenicol. You'll want to make sure the dosage you are given is correct, as it is different for rabbits then it is for dogs and cats. The medirabbit link shows the common dosage used for rabbits. You may want to bring that info with you when you pick up the med from the vet. Also ask the vet if they have probiotics. It really is best to give them when giving antibiotics, to help with the gut flora. You need non dairy, as the lactose can upset rabbits digestion sometimes. If you aren't able to find any, I guess you'll have to chance it, since he does seem to need the oral antibiotics at this point.

Did you decide to go see the dad each day to give him his meds or are you going to bring him home again? You're certainly getting a crash course in rabbit health. Hopefully you'll get to experience the fun part of rabbits without having to always have to help sick ones.

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm
http://www.rabbit.org/health/antibiotics.html

Yeah, grass hay is just a generic term. Timothy is a grass. I just specify grass because alfalfa hay can cause digestive upset sometimes, if not slowly introduced. Alfalfa can be used, especially for nursing mother rabbits and babies, but it needs to be gradually introduced to minimize digestive upset.


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## tonyshuman (Jun 5, 2013)

Usually if you see leaking pus it's not an abscess. If the abscess is burst, you may see pus, but otherwise the pus usually is coming from the eye itself if you can see it in that type of infection. Sometimes an abscess of the incisors will put pressure on the tear duct that drains liquid from the eye. Usually then you see clear drainage from the eye, but the eye can get infected since it's not draining properly, and then you'd see a white discharge. It is hard to tell without an x-ray.

Injecting the meds is fine if you are willing to do it. They can also usually make those meds work for oral administration.


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## cornflakes (Jun 5, 2013)

Thanks, i'll bring that dosage info with me to the vet.
I'll ask if he as any probiotics but i looked online in korea and it seems
hard to find it...i did put in an order this morning for this rabbit food that says
it also contains probiotics (the brand name is Genesis and it's some sort of healthy rabbit pellet food made from timothy). 

I called another vet in seoul, but he told me he can't help me too much unless i can bring the rabbit in for a checkup/examination. I don't have a car here, and I'm well over 1.5 hours away by bus so it's not a possibility. I can only really rely on my local vet which is a smallish place with limited rabbit meds and rabbit knowledge it seems. I don't know how to inject enrofloxacin (baytril)...do u think it's possible for me to do it on my own? Is it something that I can self-learn via a video? I saw the vet inject the anti-fertilzer medicine when I took Lucky Star there and he basically just pinched some skin on the back and injected the needed into that lump of skin.....honestly, that seems pretty straightforward...but I guess I'd still prefer the oral format.

I'll mention it again, my local vet has enrofloxacin but only in injection form. The only other oral antibiotic he has other than amoxicillin is ciprofloxacin. 


Well it's a holiday here but im at my work place cuz I got permission to hang around here for the day to give the rabbit his eye ointment. I'm the only one here lol...but earlier the groundskeeper was here and thankfully so cuz I set off the alarm when I entered my office and the secom security car had to come here. Yikes.

I took some new pics of his eye....if you can take a look and see what you think. This is what his eye looks like now after 7 days of eye ointment (neomycin, polymixin b sulfate) twice a day. 

You might notice that little lump or dark spot under his eye....initially i thought that was the cut where he got bit and probably got infected...but now im not sure if that lump/dark spot is an abscess.


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## cornflakes (Jun 5, 2013)

oh, another note is the fur on his face where he had been bitten is starting grow back in so that's good? Not sure if that means anything to the eye issue.
He's pooping well again...the cecotrope are nice and big and round...so it seems he got over that little hiccup from the 2 days of amoxicillin i gave him.....


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## cornflakes (Jun 5, 2013)

just called my local vet again and this time he said he HAS the enrofloxacin (baytril) in tablet form....it's 15mg tablets.

So i think that i should go with enrofloxacin than cipro? Generally, it seems enro is used a lot more commonly than any other antibiotic for rabbits.
I'm sure they are both good but probably depends on the actual infection itself if it will respond to enro or cipro. I'm thinking I will start with enro first.
Give him 1 or 2 15mg tablet per day and if it not improving after 4-5 days...then try cipro?


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## JBun (Jun 6, 2013)

That just looks like an infected wound. With an abscess you wouldn't see the wound or puss, as the infection would be below the surface of the skin. That does look kind of bad, though it could be worse. Was it worse than this before you started the eye ointment? It doesn't look like the eye itself is infected, just the eyelid below it. So that part of it is good at least. And if it isn't as bad as a week ago, that is good too, but it's still pretty infected isn't it. 

If you start with the baytril pills, make sure they aren't the liver flavored for dogs. Also, for dosage, you'll need to weight him if you can. You want the dosage to be as accurate as possible. Just by looking at him, I would say he's probably around 3 kg or more. So one tablet of the 15 mg tablet twice a day, won't be enough. The average dosage is 10mg/kg every 12 hours. So if he is somewhere around 3 kg, then he will need two 15 mg tablets, twice a day. If the vet doesn't compound the tablets into a sweetened suspension liquid, then you would have to crush the tablets and mix it into something REALLY tasty, because I've heard this stuff is REALLY nasty tasting. Even in a sweetened suspension, it can be hard to get a bun to take this stuff.

That's really great his poops returned to normal. That was a bit of a worry with the amoxicillin. Even though the baytril is generally considered the easiest on their digestive flora, it can still sometimes cause loss of appetite. So, once you start the baytril, you'll want to keep an eye on his eating. 

If you decide to go the route of injections, just be aware that injectable baytril can cause sterile abscesses(there's a pic on the medirabbit antibiotic link), but the good thing about injections is it is less likely to cause digestive problems. To avoid the sterile abscess problem, ask the vet about mixing the baytril with sterile saline, 50:50.

When you go to the vet, you may want to take those pics of the dad buns eye, for the vet to see.


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## cornflakes (Jun 6, 2013)

oh thank god it's not an abscess. I've heard how difficult it can be to get rid of it the more i kept reading and researching.

I think you're right that it might just be an infected wound and not an eye infection. I've been treating his eye with the ointment and got most of it in his actual eye and only rubbed a bit of it on the outer wound (i didn't try rubbing it on the wound intentionally...just aiming for the eyeball). I can say that it doesn't look worse than a week ago...but i don't think it looks better either.

So maybe this ointment is not doing anything if this is in fact a wound infection and not so much an eye infection?

What exactly can i apply on this wound infection? Is the eye ointment also good to rub onto this wound? Or do I need an entirely different ointment for wound infections? 

I don't know how much he weighs but I told the vet that he's a bit bigger than Lucky Star .... but i don't think even knows how much Lucky Star weighed...I never saw him weigh him...but he did take him to the back for an xray. 

I will opt not to do the injection. So with the pills, since they taste so bad, he won't eat them for sure on his own, so I'll have to crush them up and dilute it in sweet liquid? Can I use something like apple juice or honey? Do I feed him the same way using the oral needle feeder or is he supposed to just somehow eat this on his own?

How long or how many days should I be giving him this before I start to see any benefits? 

Sorry for all these questions, but honestly with vet, he really doesn't seem to know much at all lol. I can't rely solely on him so I am really relying on your experiences and self-developed expertise!

I'm going first thing in the morning to pick up the tablets.

Oh, and why should I make sure they are not liver flavored for dogs tablets? Is it the taste or is it a medical/health concern? I'm not sure if he'll have a variety to choose from so I might have to just accept them or nothing. Then maybe I just go with the cipro if the baytril is liver flavored for dogs? Are they made specially for rabbits or just generic baytril antibiotics that I can choose from any?


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## whitelop (Jun 6, 2013)

I would try to get some baby food, like mashed bananas or pears or even just regular applesauce would be okay. Just something REALLY tasty to hide the pill taste. 
There was one member who made her bun smoothies to take her meds, she would blend blueberries and spinach and banana together to make a nice sweet treat with hidden meds. 
Just remember no dairy products. 

Poor big bunny!


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## JBun (Jun 6, 2013)

I think it's just that the liver flavor doesn't taste good. With how bad the baytril already tastes, I don't know if that will make any difference at all. Morgan's suggestion for feeding is good. Applesauce or mushed banana would make it the easiest to mix the meds with. It may even be possible to take a little piece of banana and just hide the whole pill in it, and see if he'll take it that way. 

I don't know how expensive enrofloxacin is there, but here it's pretty expensive. So you may want to see how the price compares with the cipro. I'm not sure how long it will take to see results, but hopefully you'll see it in a couple days. I would still keep using the eye ointment since some of it will probably still get in the eye, but put it on the wound directly, instead of trying to put it in the eye. Just putting the ointment right on the wound should make a difference, as long as the dad isn't grooming it off right away. It might be good to put it on the wound first, then distract him with a handful of hay.


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## kmaben (Jun 6, 2013)

Yikes! Poor little love. See if you could get some sterile water and syringes from the vet (no needle). shouldnt cost much. Even just flushing the wound will help it. Take a wet washcloth and heat it in the microwave for a few seconds so it's warm and hold it to the wound. It'll help draw out all the pus and nastyness to the surface and you can wipe it or flush it with the sterile water. Baytril is disgusting and you may just have a fight on your hands. My Kai baby was on it for two months. Worst months of his and my life. Alot of rabbit bugs are resilant to Baytril so dont expect results right away. Be prepared for a wait. Hopefully it'll help with his eye and his nose which was looking a little crusty also.


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## eclairemom (Jun 6, 2013)

It breaks my heart to see the poor boy like that. Good thing you have a vet willing to work with you without actually seeing him. Hope he gets better.


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## tonyshuman (Jun 6, 2013)

I agree with a lot of the above, but wanted to mention that it is not hard to learn to inject, if you are willing to do so. The vet should be able to show you how, and there are some videos that are helpful on youtube.

I agree that the wound looks like an infected bite or scratch, maybe something with the tear duct, maybe a scratch on the third eyelid that got infected. Enrofloxacin is usually preferred in rabbits, not sure why. In the body cipro and enrofloxacin get bioconverted to the same active compound. I know enrofloxacin is not used in humans because it has psychological side effects. Best of luck with the baytril tabs (ground up and suspended in something tasty is a good idea). He really needs some help with that eye, poor guy.

For a probiotic, you can use any human probiotic that is not milk-based. Rabbits cannot digest lactose. I would go with a simple acidophilus capsule from the health food store, non-dairy. You could cut open the capsule and give 1/5-1/2 of it (depending on size) to the bun in a sitting. Don't get the kind that is probiotic + fiber or anything, just pain old probiotic would be best.


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## cornflakes (Jun 7, 2013)

I picked up 10 tablets (15mg each) of baytril and it cost me 15,000 won here which is about 12-13 dollars?

I saw a video about putting the pill inside a banana. When I saw him, he looked really hungry (as he knows when I arrive, I always have something good to eat so he rushes to me). I had already slipped the tiny pill inside the tip of the banana and he started eating the banana like mad crazy. His second bite included the baytril tablet as I heard him crunching on it....he paused for a second (probably wondering what this hard crunchy thing was amidst all this yummy soft chewy food) then resumed eating more banana. I only gave him a few bites of banana to let him completely swallow whatever he had in his mouth. Good thing is it seems like he didn't notice it and just ate it so easily.

I put the eye ointment directly on his wound too. I'll keep you all update in a couple days. I hope he'll start showing improvement. Thanks so much again for all the support and advice. As someone put it earlier, I really am having a crash course in rabbit health lol.


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## cornflakes (Jun 8, 2013)

Today is Saturday and I went to see him to give him his meds for the day. His eye was totally shut. It seems it's gotten more swollen and the pus is even thicker. It seems swollen above his eye now. He was also a lot more sensitive to me touching his eye when putting the ointment on it...it may be more painful.

He ate his 2nd tablet of enrofloxacin (in the banana) and I have 8 more tablets (1 per day). I don't know why but it seems like he's getting worse. 

I know that the ground he lives on his always dirty (lots of dirt, sand, and other debris), and he was itching is eye a lot with his hind leg (first licking his foot, then scratching his eye). I suppose the dirt from his feet to his eye isn't helping but why is his eye more swollen today? Could it be something else we're not getting?

Is this eye ointment that I am giving him actually doing anything for him or is it completely the wrong medicine? 

I was thinking about trying to clean his eye but he's way too sensitive for that and would run away very scared. He even tried to put his head between the wall and box for protection. I tried to dampen it with a clean wet cloth....or even squirt some water on it with a clean feeding syringe. I think someone said u can use salt water?? I don't know if I should try to rinse it out or just leave it alone.

The eye ointment tube is almost done...maybe 30% of it is left. He's only on his 2nd day of enro, but why he seems to be getting worse after all this is making me frustrated. I didn't have my HD cam with me so i used my cell phone pic...not sure if u can see it clearly but now his upper eye looks swollen.

Previously it was only his lower eyelid that was swollen.


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## cornflakes (Jun 8, 2013)

Oh, there were so many of those house flies or poo flies around...u know...they are attracted to poop. I wonder if they might have any affect on passing germs or bacteria/dirt if they land and sit on his face or eye.
I caught and killed nearly 60+ flies over the last 2 days to try and eliminate them....i put up those sticky fly traps on the ceiling too to try and catch those flies....


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## cornflakes (Jun 8, 2013)

After watching more videos and looking up for info about eye infections or conjunctivitis or abscess, I'm feeling very worried now and on the brink of giving up.

Since his eye is shut now, i saw a video that said it was shut due to the white discharge that sealed it....and then it can't escape or release so it builds up behind the shut eye...they then had to forcibly part the eye lids
open and all this thick white pus came oozing out. They all said that if the eye doesn't get better quickly, it could mean a secondary or underlying problem like dental issue or abscess in the molar putting pressure on the tear ducts
or some even said that an eye infection can lead to the growth of an abscess underneath the eye or eyelids. There seems to be no cure for it. It's either you surgically remove the eye or you have to wash out the eye twice a day for possibly his entire life. 

I need to start to prepare for the worst and what to do if the worst case scenario comes true. There's no way I can clean his eye out twice a day, let alone even just grab him and hold him still. He's not a house bunny. I'm so frustrated cuz all these videos online are with calm rabbits who just sit still and take the washing or meds. Dad rabbit will not. I'd have to forcibly wrap him up in a towel or something and it'd require 2 people and he'd probably just die of stress being captured like that twice a day.

I don't think there is any way I can put him up for adoption....I don't think he can be sent via airplane and travel for 13 hours to North America. I don't have the money or anything to send him to a vet's care where he can stay there for a week or longer where it's clean, and can get daily proper attention. Rather than to leave him like this....this eye isn't getting better leads me to think the infection will only spread to his brain or respiratory if it hasn't already and lead to death anyways....should I consider putting him down? 

I really appreciate everyone trying to help me and it's so heart warming, but i'm frustrated now and tired. None of the vets here can explain anything to me, I can't find anything I'm looking for because of the language barrier. Nobody here understands what the "hell" im trying to explain to them. And then his paws are just constantly dirty with god knows what in there and he licks it and rubs and scratches his eye. I've spent about $300 of my own money on Lucky Star and Dad Rabbit combined for meds, foods, equipment, transportation etc., and I've been coming into work on my weekends and holidays to see him ....and after all this, he's not getting any better and the videos online all say that these things could take months or a year to clear up. 

I'll finish using the eye ointment (neomycin + polymixin B sulfate) (still don't know what this eye ointment is for exactly and nobody seems to know either so i've been giving him this thing for 9 days straight not knowing if it's even what he needs),
and I'll finish giving him the rest of the 8 enrofloxacin tablets. After that, if he's not better or if he's gotten worse, I think it'll be best to just put him down, unless I can find someone to or someplace here in Korea who knows what they are doing
and take care of him. I'm an emotional person and these things really depress me. I've given as much as I can do but I'm all alone and even the vets don't offer much help, I don't think I can take this much longer.

I was thinking about the "saline solution" but it's next to impossible to find it here or ask for it that's not FOR CONTACT LENS, but just straight up plain solution. I don't even know how I'm going to try and explain that to a drugstore who doesn't speak any english. Next, if I get the saline solution, can i just squirt it on his shut eye? Do I have to open his eye (because that won't be possible), or can I just squirt it on his shut eyelid and hope it soaks up into his eye and around the swollen eye area. 

Every video i watch for help, they always tell me, before you do anything go see a vet and make sure you know what you're doing first. Well I don't know what I'm doing, and I can't see a vet, and even if I could, they don't know what to do ....if they'd even prescribe to me oral amoxicillin, something that research says everywhere WILL KILL YOUR RABBIT, then what hope do I have that they'd know anything else about dad rabbit's condition? This is hopeless.

I'm really just starting to think euthanasia is the easiest solution for everyone including dad rabbit, but i'd rather not....i'd rather just give him away somewhere or drop him off at some animal shelter and not know what becomes of him than to know that I put him down and feel guilty even after everything I tried to do with all the odds against me.

Sorry I needed to vent....there's nobody to talk to and nobody to help me...I just got hit with this wave of depression all of a sudden after watching more videos and doing more research.


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## cornflakes (Jun 8, 2013)

Went to the pharmacy drugstore asked for something like saline solution....told him it was for an animal that had swollen eye shut...he recommended this:
http://www.dsmedicine.co.kr/sub/sub2_1_1.html?no=743&PHPSESSID=8baf61fcf43b8ec8999d5a94fbbf3eba

It's called Eye Pill....if u use google...u should be able to click on the "translate" at the top and it'll change it to english.
Here's what's in it:
Ingredient
Aminocaproic acid'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' 10mg 
neo-methyl sulfate Teague Min'' ' '''''''''''''''''' '0.02mg 
hydrochloride sleepy Napa'''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''' '0.02mg 
peniramin maleic acid salt claw back'''''''''''''''''''''''' 0.1mg 
p-benzoic acid methyl'''' '''''''''''''''''''''''' '0.25mg 
p-acid profile'''''''''''''''''' ' '''' '0.125mg 
chlorobutanol'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ' 1.5mg

Says it's for:
Efficacy
Eyestrain, conjunctival hyperemia, eye discomfort, or after swimming or sweating Eyecontact dust, 
UV rays and other rays by the ophthalmia, blepharitis (eyelid erosion), discomfort when wearing hard contact lenses, 
eye itching, eye The chimchimham (when a lot of gum, etc.)
That's what the google translated page said....do you think this is ok to squirt in dad rabbit's eye or would this only aggravate and make his eye worse??


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## whitelop (Jun 8, 2013)

I think you should take him back to your house until he heals. With all the flies around and he's running the risk of getting fly strike in his eye. Because the flies will be attracted to his wound. Fly strike is the when flies lay eggs in an open wound and the eggs hatch in the wound and eat their way out. Its terrible.
So I would really take him home with you and try to keep him safe from fly strike and all the dirty floors and stuff where he is now. 

I don't know if that stuff is safe to put in his eye. There are a lot of chemicals in there and a lot of different ingredients. So I'm not sure. 
The language barrier has to be so hard, but you're doing the best you can. 

Could you get any iodine? I don't know if its the right thing to clean his eye out with either, but diluted iodine is what you would use. 

Just keep giving him the antibiotics and hopefully they'll start to help. Is he still eating and drinking and pooping okay? 

I would just take him home with you, that might make him more comfortable and make it easier for him to heal. And this is what you need to do when you take him home. Tell your employers that he died. Do not take him back to that disgusting place. Seriously. Just tell them that he passed away a few days after you brought him home and you're really sorry but he was sick. I know its wrong to lie, I'm fully aware of that. But, in this situation I think its what needs to be done, to keep him safe from that place. And when to go back to Canada, try to find out if you can carry him on the plane with you. You'll have to have a health certificate to travel and I'm not sure how intercontinental animal transport goes. But I think thats for the best. I'm sorry theres no one there to help you and we're all so far away and can't physically help. But if you can carry him on the plane with you when you come back, then get him to Canada there are so many rescue groups would take him, just tell them his story and tell them what hes been through. There would be someone to take him if you could get him here. I know its crazy. 
Or you could get him put to sleep. Thats a hard option, but it might be for the best. That way he wouldn't be suffering anymore, or dealing with being sick or beat up by other rabbits. Sorry to be harsh. 

You've done such a great job taking care of them.


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## JBun (Jun 8, 2013)

I'm so sorry the dad's eye looks worse. I can't quite understand it either. You could maybe ask the vet for a different antibiotic ointment or drops. Maybe the one your using isn't very effective against the bacteria in his wound and eye. You also may need to be giving him a higher dose of the baytril. If you think he weighs around 6 lbs or 3 kg, then the dose you are giving is the minimum at 5 mg/kg twice a day. He would probably be better getting at least 10mg/kg twice a day, so that would be two pills, twice a day. I don't know, but maybe it will make a difference. The hard part with antibiotics is that sometimes they aren't effective against certain bacteria, so then a different one has to be used. 

That eye solution doesn't seem like the right thing. You need just a plain saline solution that is used to rinse contact lenses. You could also get a sterile saline solution used to flush wounds. You just don't want the added meds/chemicals that they put in eye drop type solutions.

You're certainly in a difficult situation with the dad bun. There's only so much that you are able to do for him, considering your situation and his. And if it comes down to it and they eye won't heal, then it would probably be better that he wasn't left in a situation where he would be suffering. It's a hard decision for sure. It is very hard having a sick rabbit. It's very stressful. When I've gone through it, I've just had to remind myself that I'm doing the best I can for my animal, and that will just have to be enough. Sometimes there is only so much you can do.


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## cornflakes (Jun 8, 2013)

When I first brought him to my place, I actually wanted to keep him there the entire time until his eye would heal (1 or 2 weeks) but THE WORST POSSIBLE TIMING EVER was that our place just started CONSTRUCTION. They work EVERY SINGLE DAY from Mon to Sun 7:30am to 5:00pm and they make a lot of pounding, booming noises with the grinding equipment, hammering, and building vibrating/shaking...I saw that the dad rabbit got so startled by this and his breathing was faster than normal. 

I was so frustrated because I couldn't believe the TIMING of this construction. It happens right when he's sick and needs to be in a quiet and restful place. My place is always quiet and peaceful but not right now...that's why I thought it best to take him back cuz at least there it's quieter and he won't be stressed out...but then that place is dirty and he's getting his dirty paw to scratch his eye all the time. I hate this horrible no win situation! 

So I don't know what's better. Just leave him there where it's quiet and peaceful but outdoorsy dirty or stay at my place where it's cleaner, but he'll have to put up with horrible construction noise from 7:30am to 5:00pm every single day for the next week or so until they finish. They're literally right next to our wall because my room is a corner room and they are adding metal frames around the entire building to put up some new panels or something. It's not construction that's happening on another part of the building...it's literally right above me, and beside me on 3 of the 4 sides of my room.

I just can't believe the timing of everything. Where he lives, there used to be NO FLIES whatsoever! The weather just got warm about a 2 weeks ago and now that he's hurt and has that eye problem, his pen is swarming with hundreds of those black flies, plus the construction that started at my place, plus the vet giving me amoxicillin instead of baytril a week ago...he could have started on baytril a week ago instead of just 2 days ago....everything just seems like it's happening to frustrate me. I've been here for 3 years and never had construction once. The 2 weeks construction decides to enter my life are the exact 2 weeks when the rabbit is sick and needs a quiet place to rest. 

I'm so emotional right now I feel like punching a hole or many through my wall...i just can't believe my luck right now...someone wants that rabbit dead and someone wants me to lose my head. This is so unfair.


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## cornflakes (Jun 8, 2013)

How about Terramycin eye ointment? I just read that many owners have used this to clear up eye infections in rabbits? 
Should I try and find this??

After using the current eye ointment im using now (Polymixin B + Neomycin + Dexametasone = it's called "Forus: Opthalmic Ointment" by Samil) for 9 days now and hasn't helped at all it seems,
shouldn't I be trying a different eye ointment or eye antibiotic?

Why wouldn't the vets tell me any of this?? I'm becoming a self-made doctor by doing all the work and research and then suggesting it to the vets! Everything they've given me so far either KILLS RABBITS or has been INEFFECTIVE.
I had to tell them to give me enrofloxacin....they never suggested that to me, just amoxicillin.


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## kmaben (Jun 8, 2013)

Just an idea but my old doc is stationed on the Army base out in Korea. He'd be able to help find someone who can register him on the post there. The vet there will be an American who will atleast know something about rabbits and speak English. They will be able to get rabbit savy medications that the Koreans dont seem to have. I'm not sure how far away you are in relation to the bases out there. Plus if you did happen to want to keep him and ship him home with you that would also be the easiest and cheapest route. I dont mind chipping in through a paypal account either. There are so many rabbits out there that need help and they'll just continue to get more at your work. But you really seem to like this little guy and I dont want you to put the time and effort in for something so stupid as an infected scratch from a terrible situation.

Is that a possibility you would want me to pursue?

EDIT: http://militarybases.com/overseas/south-korea/
Here's a list of where everything is located. What's nearest you?


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## cornflakes (Jun 8, 2013)

Thanks, I think I'm close to Camp Humphreys. Is that in Pyeongtaek, South Korea? If it is, I'd be about 45 minutes away by bus. I'm located in city called Anseong.

Any help in finding him help or long-term housing and care would be good. If I can't help him and he's not getting better, I'll definitely like to send him somewhere where he can get a clean place to live and daily care.

Today is Sunday, I'm going into my work place again to see him now in a few minutes and give him his meds.


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## JBun (Jun 9, 2013)

That would be so great if you could get a US vet experienced with rabbits, to take a look at the dad bun. I hope it works out. I don't know if you caught my previous post, but I mentioned that if you see the vet again, you may want to ask for a different kind of eye ointment, with a different antibiotic in it. Maybe it will be more effective against this bacteria.


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## cornflakes (Jun 9, 2013)

Yes, I read that terramycin seemed to be quite popular for rabbit eye infections like conjunctivitis....but the good news is terramycin has polymixin B sulfate which is what the current ointment im using has. But all other ingredients are different.

I'll be upping his baytril to 2 tablets per day (2 15mg tablets...) starting on Monday.


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## JBun (Jun 9, 2013)

If you can find terramycin eye ointment, it's ok to use. Here in the US it's sold otc for livestock. The increased baytril dosage should help too. Hopefully you'll start seeing some improvement.


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## tonyshuman (Jun 9, 2013)

You could probably also use a saline solution that you have boiled and then let cool to room temperature. The saline solution for eyes is similar to the stuff you use in a neti pot. You could make it by mixing 9 grams salt (the kind without iodine added if you can find it) in 1000mL water, then boil this. Keep it covered while it cools, and then you can put it in the eye. That *should* be ok. I am not guaranteeing it but in this situation it seems like there's not much other option. 

I think you are thinking about the welfare of the rabbit in a very responsible way. It is true that sometimes we just don't have the resources we need to treat our pets. The higher dose of Baytril should help, but it's hard to say. He should get better after 3-5 days of treatment with the antibiotic. The ointment is probably not doing a lot, with all that pus in there.

I know that to take rabbits to Canada, there is a quarantine period. We had a member move from Great Britain to Canada and her rabbits had to be in quarantine for at least 2 weeks, even though they were in perfect health. The stress of quarantine was pretty hard on one of them. I doubt you'd be able to take him into the country in his condition. I don't know how much longer you are living in Korea, but it will take at least 14 days for the Baytril to totally treat the infection, and that's in a best case scenario. It is possible that Baytril isn't the right medicine and/or there's something really wrong that led to the infection (tooth roots), and that would mean more time and different procedures, like surgery, which just may not be an option for you. This is really hard. It's so sad to see him suffering from something that a vet here could treat easily, but we are very lucky in the states and Canada and some other countries to have great vet care available that isn't possible around the world. I would be very frustrated too. 

I personally would look long-term. Will he be healthy by the time you leave? If he's healthy, can you and he handle all of the difficult paperwork and hassle of customs, travel, and quarantine? If he has to stay in Korea, is there someone who can take care of him when you leave? It may be better to have him euthanized rather than suffer with this condition, especially if there is nowhere for him to go.  I have seen some gruesome eye infection pictures, and Dad bun has a very serious infection. I am concerned that if it doesn't improve he will lose the eye shortly. It is probably very painful. I really hope that the Baytril will help him improve soon. In the meantime look into what it would require to bring him home, and if that doesn't look possible look for a home for him in Korea. If you can find a home, maybe they will have better connections in the vet world.


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## cornflakes (Jun 10, 2013)

Yeah, I don't understand why it got worse.

The actual eye itself didn't look infected or bad. There was no cloudiness or any redness of the eyeball itself. It was only that wound/lump under his eye that seemed to produce all this discharge. It stayed that way for about 9 days.
Then all of a sudden the next day his eye was completely shut because of more white discharge that was now coming seemingly from a new swelling above the eye...so i still think that the shut eye is only shut because there's so much discharge that it's kinda dried up and glued the eyelids together, but I don't think there's actually anything wrong with his eye initially.

Not sure what that new lump was from...it kinda looks like a mosquito bite or something because there is a concentrated redness that resembles a bite.

I just wish there was a way i could wash out the discharge/pus dried up cuz I really didn't think there was anything wrong with his actual eye.

Do you think that I should get a 2nd person to help me wrap him up in a towel and force wash that eye out?? It'll probably make him go absolutely crazy and nuts but how important is it to wash out crusted/dried up white discharge? Will that pus/discharge melt on its own or will it stay completely dried like crazy glue?? 

I have no idea what is better or worse...to leave the eye alone shut by the discharge or risk washing it out causing him immense pain and stress and probably hurting the eye even more? But if he's going to lose that eye anyways, then shouldn't I just do it?


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## LilyPatchFarm (Jun 10, 2013)

Have been following this silently for some time, and just needed to say you are my hero. You are doing some amazing work with them! Thanks for trying so very hard, I know it must be insanely frustrating.

Just a thought, but that new bump may be fly strike. In open wounds in areas where there are flys... they lay their eggs in the wound and it swells up and covers the eggs, then the maggots hatch and eat all the flesh around the wound. Its not a pretty sight...


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## cornflakes (Jun 10, 2013)

Thanks Lily. I hope that's not the case.
It seemed like his eye was getting better until suddenly a huge swelling appearing on the top part of the eyelid and now it's swollen shut with so much white discharge.

The open wound though was on the skin just below his eye, so not sure why the swelling above the eye started.

Just before I left work, I decided to try something different since the eye ointment hasn't seemed to do anything. I diluted the ointment in a small bit of warm water. Then I sucked up the water with the feeding syringe and squirted at his eye. I did this about 4 times with a full syringe...he didn't like it of course and ran for his life....but since his eye is shut closed, he can't see it coming from his blind side so I got in 4 good squirts....i'm hoping the water or wetness of it will help wash off or loosen the dry white pus that is sealing his eye shut.

He's also not eating much either ever since I started the enrofloxacin treatment. I left some food at 9am and by 4pm the food was hardly touched or eaten if it all. His poop around the pen is once again looking smaller and rounder....hopefully this won't be another problem.


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## cornflakes (Jun 10, 2013)

By the way....when talking about fly strike...are you talking about those common household black flies? Or does fly strike come from fleas? It's just those common black flies we see all the time....i've been killing as many as I can each day and i stuck up 3 or 4 strips of those fly catching sticky strips.


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## cornflakes (Jun 10, 2013)

Just spoke to another english speaking vet on the phone....1.5 hours away from me but at least can get some info. He said that the rabbit need anti-inflammatory meds (since his upper eyelid is now swollen). Nobody ever mentioned this before. Do you think dad rabbit needs anti-inflammatory medicine??? He said something like meglumine, or meloxicam is used. 

Once again, I can't transport him to an animal hospital without a car. My local vet is way too small, they don't have any expertise for rabbits. I'm looking at 45 to 1 hour drive to get to a major city and find a bigger hospital that treats rabbits.

He also told me that the rabbit needs pain killers because I told him how sensitive he is now to me touching his eye when trying to apply the ointment. How on earth do i give a rabbit pain killers? I don't think that's in the baytril is it? The original antibiotic I was given (that had amoxicillin in it) also had ibuprofen and some other stuff for pain killer. Is there some way to give him a painkiller while giving him his baytril tabs?


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## JBun (Jun 10, 2013)

Originally anti inflammatories really weren't needed as the wound didn't look swollen or painful, and the dad bun was eating and acting normally. I think it would be good to give them to him now. You want metacam(meloxicam). It's an anti inflammatory, and will provide pain relief. Dosage is 0.1-0.2mg/kg, but you could go up to 0.6mg/kg, and it is usually given once a day, but can be given twice a day if needed. The easiest way to give it is in a sweet suspension liquid. It could be that the dad bun is eating less, because of his wound now being painful. Hopefully you can get some metacam, and it will help him start eating better.

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Analgesics/safe_analgesics.htm

If you are interested in Kaleys(kmaben) offer of an army vet, you may want to try sending her a pm to let her know.


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## cornflakes (Jun 10, 2013)

Just got in this morning and now the dad rabbit will NOT EAT ANYTHING.
I cannot give him his baytril tablets anymore. Even with a banana slice or I even tried sweetened fruit jelly/sauce (like apple sauce), he won't even try it...he just runs away.

I cannot get meloxacam or any anti-inflammatory because even if i got it, there'd be no way to administer it to him. 

The only option left now is for someone to hopefully come and adopt him or pick him up. If not, I'm afraid he'll just die. If he won't eat, then there's nothing I can do. It seems that every few days or so, there's a new issue and another medicine I have to get and another and another and nothing is actually working.

Someone needs to adopt him or pick him up to save his life. I put out ads for him online hopefully for anyone who might want him but I doubt anyone will with him being sick and all and needing medical exams, tests, and drugs.

I spoke with another english vet last night and same talk.....'you have to bring him in so i can see him' blah blah blah the same stuff that I CANT DO because I don't have a car. I used to drive 80,000 km a year back home in Canada and I'd do everything by car....this adds to the frustration because a simple thing like not having a car is the only thing that stands between him living and dying. 

I'm out of options so it appears 

He will get no meds and no more eye ointment because he won't eat and he won't let me come near him (not to mention his eye is shut anyways so i cant get any ointment in his eye even if i had one that works).

We can only just pray for a miracle now.....


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## Ilovemyrabbit (Jun 10, 2013)

Would the vet be willing to drive to you to see the dad rabbit? Or would a friend with a car be willing to take him to the vet for you?

I'm going to start praying for the dad rabbit and you.


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## JBun (Jun 10, 2013)

I'm so sorry this isn't working out and that he's getting worse. I'm afraid that he's at the point where he is going to take a lot more medical care and nursing. If you continue on, he would need hand feeding several times a day. If this isn't something you are going to be able to do, it might be kindest to have him pts, to spare him anymore suffering. If you still want to try, get the metacam It needs to be compounded in a liquid, so that you can syringe it into the corner of his mouth. If he has only stopped eating because of eye pain, the metacam may help him start eating again on his own. Otherwise he would need syringe feeding. If the vet there has Oxbow critical care herbivore food mix, then that is what you use to syringe feed. You can also use plain canned pumpkin(with no spices and nothing but pumpkin in the can) to syringe feed with. You would also need to syringe water so he doesn't dehydrate. Syringing needs to be done slowly too, giving a chance to chew and swallow, so the liquid isn't aspirated. It's a lot of work to hand feed a rabbit, and can be difficult to get them to cooperate, but it is possible if you want to try it. You would also need to change his antibiotic med, since he won't eat. You would need the cipro if it can be syringe fed, or he would need injections. You could also crush up the baytril tablets into a powder and mix it with a small amount of something smooth enough to administer in a syringe without clogging it, into his mouth. The canned pumpkin would work, or mushed banana might if it's smooth enough.

You've tried your best with him, especially considering the circumstances you are in. Whatever you decide will be the best thing for him.


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## tonyshuman (Jun 10, 2013)

This is really rough. If you could get a hold of him and keep him still, you could use a washcloth with warm water on the eye to try to de-gunk it. However it sounds like he's so upset that holding him down to do so, or to give meds, would really stress him out. It is possible that de-gunking the eye would start to make him feel better so if you managed to keep him still for 5 min, he'd let you hold on for a few more minutes. Is there a rabbit rescue that might be able to help?


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## cornflakes (Jun 11, 2013)

I was looking for a rabbit rescue but things like that in korea are so rare....they really don't care much for rabbits as rabbits are still eaten here in stews and not regarded anywhere as close to a dog or cat. Vets that I've talked to just laugh at me (not in a mean way but as in just humorous news to them) when I ask if there might be any service that can come to my place and pick up the rabbit. 

The problem with the antibiotics is that it kills his appetite completely!!! Baytril is doing the same thing amoxicillin was doing. After just 4 tablets of baytril, he's completely stopped eating, pooping, and peeing (well he peed a lot when I was trying to catch him with a blanket). He will not accept the banana anymore, he wont eat his favourite foods like carrot pieces and this yummy fruit/veggie pellet treat i used to give him (he just loved that but now he doesn't even touch it). 

The pain in his eye is definitely not what's causing him to stop eating because he was eating well even with the giant swollen shut eye. It's the antibiotic. Yesterday was the first day I gave him 2 tablets in a day (once the morning and once in the afternoon), and today he completely stopped eating. I have to stop giving him the antibiotic now just so that he can get his appetite back....it's a no win situation. Maybe what I'll do is stop the meds and see if he'll start eating again in a couple days. Then slowly reintroduce the baytril back into the banana...maybe only once a day. 

I stopped with the eye ointment. I spent about 10 minutes trying to catch him with a wool blanket....he was running around scared all over the place...i didn't want to grab him roughly but I think if i just do it roughly, I can catch him prety easily and quickly....but I can tell he was so stressed. I finally caught him and he gave a little struggle but then when I picked him up and kinda sat him on my knee he stopped....i tried to put the syringe into his mouth but the syringe is too short and fat....he resisted and even tried to paw it out of the way.....the baytril inside was crushed up and mixed in a sweet fruit jelly liquid...i thought that would help but he completely rejected it...i tried to put it in his mouth but i dont think he got much or any of it...probably just spilled over on to his chin or fur coat.

I'm restraining myself as much as possible but i'm literally over the edge now. I just want to cuss left right and center because of a stupid like not having a "ride" is the only thing that keeps him from getting treated or suffering and dying. 

What do i do now? How do I get him to eat?? Is the only way to grab him, force feed him? If I don't,he'll probably go into GI stasis and die anyways right?

An injection would have been better as it would not affect his appetite at all! But no car = no visit to the vet.

I can't even take him to the vet to get put down. He's just going to have to sit there and hope a miracle happens.


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## JBun (Jun 11, 2013)

I'm frustrated for you as well. He looked like he was doing so well after the first week. It wasn't better, but it wasn't worse. All I can think of to try at this point is changing the antibiotic and seeing if a different one causes less of a lack of appetite. You could try the cipro, or if you want to learn how to give injections, you could try that, but it could be really hard to do cause you have to get the dad bun to hold still long enough to inject the med. Probiotics might help too. 

If he's not eating and it's been more than 24 hours, you have to get him to eat. If he won't he'll go into GI stasis, if he hasn't already. Force feeding with a syringe is necessary when a rabbit stops eating for too long. I've had to do it with my own rabbits. They don't like it but it's for their own good and they get over it eventually. If you can manage to just hold him securely between you legs and with a hand cupping the back of his neck/head, try that. Or you can try burrito wrapping in a towel. You could also flush his eye and put the med on it, at this point too. You could maybe try just a regular triple antibiotic ointment(with no pain relief added), since his eyes shut, it won't get in the eye anyways. Maybe a different one will be more effective.

I don't know what else to tell you. Even here in the US it can be hard to treat rabbits. Better medical care is available, but rabbits are just very prone to having problems sometimes, and it can be hard to get the rabbit better. I've lost a few rabbits to medical problems that the meds just didn't help clear up. You've done your best with this bun, and that's all you can really do.


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## cornflakes (Jun 11, 2013)

Yes, thanks so much for your support. I'm deeply appreciative of people like you and everyone on this site who has tried to offer their help. 
I'm currently and actively posting this story and link to other major sites in Korea to try and find someone with a car who can help me get him to a hospital ASAP.

Hopefully a good samaritan will respond to me soon. It's the last ditch effort. I need someone to drive me to a hospital or I need to find a way to rent a car....i was even considering buying a used car but i think that will take too long (the research, paper work, etc). 

I will stop giving him the antibiotic to let him regain his appetitie and eat again. I'd rather face the eye infection problem than GI STASIS.


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## PaGal (Jun 11, 2013)

I am so sorry things are so difficult for both you and the bun. I wish it were possible to ship you the items that you could use such as probiotics. I'll be keeping the two of you in my thoughts and hoping that someone will be kind enough to help you out.


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## cornflakes (Jun 11, 2013)

Ok update, this morning i got him some fresh green lettuce (romaine type) and he ate some of it so that's a good sign. However, I stopped giving him antibiotics and eye ointment. I'm just trying to get him back to eating again.

I talked with a lot more vets and my coworker to help me find out other options like renting a car here in korea or even buying a used one.

The renting a car option is out the window. It requires me to have an international or korean DL. My cdn DL is not enough. I'd have to go through this long process of getting documents and travelling to other cities to get the application etc. It'll take 1-2 weeks minimum. Then I could rent a car but that would run me up $100 a day or so + insurance.

Nobody thus far has responded to my request for giving me a ride to the hospital (this hospital is about 1 hour drive from where I live). I've called other local clinics and they don't treat rabbits. This is why I can't just take a taxi and go to a hospital...the only hospital I can go is over an hour away.

I called the place which is: http://www.acris-ah.co.kr/index.html
and they told me that if I wanted to 'hospitalize' the rabbit and keep him there for a few days, it'll cost me $80 per day which includes all medicine/injections. They said normal time frame is he should stay for about 7 days. This means $560 dollars give or take. There isn't even a guarantee if he'll live....we don't know what stage he's at...and they said there's no refund or % returned to me if he stayed there for 3 or 4 days and then died. I'd still be out 400 bucks.

But I feel like his best chance to recover would be to go to the hospital, stay there a couple days at least, get all the necessary shots and medicines, and then take him back home with me (not my workplace) and try to finish the rest on my own.

I would want him to stay a full 7 days there but that's a lot of money to pay, and he's not even my rabbit. I'm just doing the good samaritan thing and trying to help him out.

Since this is pretty much the end of the line, I'm just going to try and ask anyways, but at this point, I would welcome any DONATIONS to help me cover the cost to hospitalize him! I'll probably still eat the bulk of the costs, but if some people could pitch in anything, it would help a lot. I hate asking for anything and some ppl in the past even offered to donate some funds to me a few months back for the LUCKY STAR situation, but I kindly declined because it was just for food that I felt I could easily pay for.

Now that I'm looking at hospitalization as the only option left and it's coming out to this amount that I never expected I'd ever even CONSIDER paying for a rabbit that I don't even own.....i just have to try and ask. Of course I'll take pics and video and update everyone on his situation and recovery (ask the hospital to take a pic of him everyday) and then when I pick him up, continue the rest.

But some part of me says, "Why are you even considering doing this? Why would you go and spend so much money on rabbits that aren't even yours?" Is it really that easy to just turn my back on a situation I know I can HELP even if it's costing me a lot? I hate that I'm so compassionate...it's really my weakness. 

I don't even know if I'm allowed to ask for donations....it might be illegal or against the TOS? I apologize if it is. I'm going to just ask at all the forums I've shared this with and see what happens. I want to take him as soon as possible but I might have to wait for the weekend cuz maybe I can get at least ONE ride (on the way to the big city) by then. 

My Paypal is: [email protected] 
Anything will be helpful. There aren't any other options left that I can think of. I've tried everything possible...situation just keeps getting worse. Sorry that it has come to this where I'm asking for donations.....


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## cornflakes (Jun 11, 2013)

I started another thread more local to me in korea at:http://www.animalrescuekorea.org/blog
I just found out about that site like a couple days ago and trying to see if i can get more local help.


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## Ilovemyrabbit (Jun 11, 2013)

That's good that he ate some of the romaine lettuce. I have been followiing this thread for a while and I have to say that you must be a really kind person and I really hope this bunny recovers. I'll be praying for you and the dad bunny everyday. I'm sure people will donate. I wish I could donate, I just don't have a paypal account. Or I would donate 100+ dollars. I'll be keeping you and the dad rabbit in my thoughts and pray for you and him everyday.

I hope you can get some more local help. ray:


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## cornflakes (Jun 12, 2013)

Have been on the phone almost all day today talking to more vets in and around my town....the only viable option still remaining was to go to Seoul (1.5 hours away) and hospitalize him there for 7 days or so at $80 per day which includes all medicines/injections he will require.

Fortunately one of my coworkers who lives near Seoul is able to give me a lift to the hospital since it's sort of on the way to his house (30 minutes past his house).

I'll be going in 15 minutes now....i have no idea what to expect. I'll keep everyone updated with pics/vids while I can and then ask the hospital to take a pic each day or something so I can see how he's doing.

I don't know if he needs to stay there for the full 7 days but i figure the longer the better right? I just hope business is honest here and not shady...i can see how they might milk me out of the days and just say they gave him meds when i cant prove or find out if they did or not and then say to me 4 days later that he died. I dont know...im sure they are not like that...but u never know. I just heard so many good things about ACRIS so i'm going with them!

Another vet i talked to on the phone today from another city was saying that if he's an older rabbit, it might not be worth all the money it will cost because he might not respond to the meds....i didn't think of that.....i hope he's not that old...i actually don't know how old he is. I've been here 3 years and the longest serving staff member has been here 3.5 years and said the dad rabbit was here even back then. So he's at least 3.5 years old....most likely 4-5ish. If he's 5 or 6...i was told that he's really old for rabbits and that this could all be in vain...he never looked that old to me... i never thought about this.

I hope the hospital will be honest with me and tell me that if they think he needs to be put down rather than milk me of all my money and then tell me at the end of the 7 days that treatment didn't work and he needs to be put down. 

Hey, I've made bad investments in the past...i tried to go into modeling agency hence my paypal email "[email protected]" and it cost me 1.5k and I literally got no gigs from it...only a 2 week modelling course and a 1 week acting course and 2 background/extras gigs.

So if i spend $600 here and he still dies....it'll suck bad but least it won't be the worst investment i ever made.


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## cornflakes (Jun 12, 2013)

It's 10:40pm and I just got back from ACRIS in Gangnam. First off, regardless of the outcome, I'm so thankful to one of my coworkers), who drove me all the way there and even stayed the whole time while we were talking to the vet and looking into options. I feel like he really went above and beyond his way to do this for me today and I'm deeply overwhelmed and thankful to him.

The staff at ACRIS were incredibly nice and knowledgeable and you tell right away they knew how to handle rabbits.

The bad news is after they examined him (he weighed 2.42kg + cleaned out the gunk in his eye with saline solution), they said his eye is already irrecoverable. When they opened his eye up for the first time in 4 days, his eyeball was covered in that white pus color. I told him that before his eye swelled up and shut, his eyeball was clear, black, and didn't look to be a problem at all. I'm not sure what cause his eye to become irrecoverable after his eye got more swollen and shut. They said that he'll be blind in that eye and that it was already necrotizing? (the term that means it's in the process of death). The only option given really for him to live on is to surgically remove the eye. At that point, I realized that he had to be put down and I couldn't control my emotions. I wasn't expecting that news that his eye was this bad. I was prepared just enough to pay the 7 day hospitalization fee (7x$80) and then pick him up healed, and return to normal life. But now this meant not only would I have to pay $330 more for his eye surgery, but hospitalization too for his recovery time after surgery, and now some after care if/when he is released from hospital. It meant that he most likely would need someone to take him in for good and keep in a clean environment and look after him. With much distress and tears, I had decided he should be put down because I have no idea how i can commit to take him in after the surgery and now give him full attention as my own rabbit. There was no guarantee too that he would survive the surgery cuz of the use of anasthesia. I kept looking at him and he seemed so fine except for the eye...and he was still breathing so fast cuz of being nervous and he'd prop up and down to look around his new surroundings.

After I told them that was my decision, they convinced me (but I sort of wanted to change my decision too) that all the vets there didn't think euthanasia was the best for him because they believe he could be fine and live normally after the surgery. Then they told me, he could possibly still keep the eye, but he'll just be blind....so they suggested, why not i just let him stay for a couple days and they will treat him and see how the infection responds. If they can get the infection under control, then we won't need the surgery and he can just keep the blind eye in there, but if he's not getting better, then they'll tell me after 3 days that he needs to get it removed. Obviously, i had 2 thoughts run through my mind...one good and one bad. The bad thought was that maybe these guys are just milking me out of as much as they can before the rabbit dies. I dished out $200 to keep him there for 3 days under there care and treatment....and opted not to do surgery right now...after 3 days, they'll tell me if they think he can make it without removing his eye or if he must have the surgery. I have a feeling these 3 days I just paid for aren't going to mean anything....after 3 days, they'll just tell me that his eye infection is not significantly better or cleared up and i need to give him surgery. I would have been better off just paying for the surgery now ($330) and then 7 days of hospitalization afterwards ($560), for a grand total of just under 900. But now, if I do the surgery 3 days later, its the 200+330+560 of after surgery hospitalization and i'm paying way more than i first started lol..... now that's my bad thought. Do you guys get what I'm saying? I'm sorry I can't type and say things clearly right now, im completely wasted, stressed out, been on emotional rollercoaster all day, had to go through horrible traffic and then bus it back home.... I just don't know what the hell i got myself into sometimes. But one thing I know for sure is that i didn't him to die just yet. I want to give them a chance to see if they can help him recover without the eye surgery....but my guess is the eye surgery will be required and i'll just end up dishing out more money than I bargained for. So one moment he was on the brink of being euthanized to the next moment, me agreeing to let them hospitalize him for 3 days and then see if he needs surgery...then hospitalize him some more, then when he's ready to go home (if he survives the surgery) I now have committed to take care of him in my place. I worry what will happen when I have to leave this country ....not sure I can take him with me to Canada....I just know that me having to say bye to him later, will be harder than if i just said bye to him now.

Ok I'll stop rambling...im giving myself a headache...im mixed in feelings right now because im totally content knowing he's still alive and has a chance to live on even if albeit blind forever in one eye....but im stressed and kinda in shock that i just committed to dish out 1k for a rabbit that's not even mine, and now looks like i'll have to care for him everyday in my home for the rest of his life...

How did it all come to this? I was just a NET who was compassionate about animals, and wanted to get him medicine. Now this.... I'll find out on Saturday what they say about his progress....but again, initially, they said it was really bad and worse than they thought and said right away the eye is lost (irrecoverable) and he needs to have surgery to remove it.

A couple pics of him i took while he was at the hospital....


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## cornflakes (Jun 12, 2013)

This is a short video i took while in the car on the way to Seoul. We left my town at 5:15pm and we got to hospital at 7:30pm...lots of traffic...he was nervous during the whole ride, heart beating/breathing fast and once in a while
he would peek up...i tried to just lay my hand on him or near him to ease or calm him...not sure if it helped...
Car ride: on the way to Seoul


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## cornflakes (Jun 12, 2013)

The good news is that ever since i posted my plea for help on http://www.animalrescuekorea.org/bl...bit-needs-urgent-medical-attention-but-no-car
I've been getting a lot of helpful responses from ppl in my local area. There is also a lot of rumbling about possibly fundraising or donations for him to help pay for his surgery and aftercare hospitalization costs.


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## kmaben (Jun 12, 2013)

oofta but also.....eh....I really dont even want to add up the money I've spent on Shya's eye. And to ship her to the states. It's well over the thousands trust me. She was seeing an opthamologist. I kept waiting for my hubby to flip out on a 250+ bill every time we walked through the door. And she's not even friendly. And she's rude. And extremly ungrateful. That little...anyways. We were in the same boat. Let the eye die or have it removed. We had two rabbit savy vets tell us it would be ok to just let it die with pain managment. We agonized and finally were like hell no just pull it. It's been 7 months and most of the time we forget she's even missing an eye. Telazol is amazing and incredibly rabbit friendly. That's the anesthesia that was used on our bad rabbit. As for shipping, there should be inependent shipping companies that will mail bun bun home for you. I'll continue to ask around in the military community and see who's the cheapest and what not. Major airlines are usually pretty good about shipping bun as cargo as well. Ask this new vet what the paperwork looks like. They may already know. If your gonna spend the money ont his little guy you may as well reap the benefits. He could be a really enjoyable rabbit. Or one you'd like to set loose for the hawks to get.


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## cornflakes (Jun 12, 2013)

thanks, for that so much. It does help knowing and learning more about these situations. So do you think it's best to surgically remove it than to just leave it there and be a blind eye? I suppose if that eye looks nasty and starts rotting or something, then yeah, i'd want it removed and just suture the eyelids shut.


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## JBun (Jun 12, 2013)

I'm so glad you were able to get him into the vet. I know the money part is a bit of a worry, but I'm sure it's also nice to not have to worry about him getting the proper meds now. That was really nice of your coworker to help you out too.

That's the problem with these little critters. They steal a way into our hearts, then we end up spending a fortune on them cause we love them  That's always a little bit of a worry, wondering if a place is just trying to jack prices up on you, but when it comes to getting treatment for an animal, what can you do. It's certainly a difficult decision. But despite the dad buns eye being so bad, he looked pretty healthy and alert. So it may be that with injectable antibiotics, they will be able to get the infection under control. He seems like a very sweet rabbit. I'm glad you are trying to save him. That would be really nice if this animal rescue site, can get something put together to help the dad bun out.


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## Zeroshero (Jun 12, 2013)

Bless you for your efforts, I sure hope the dad bun makes it and you are able to fundraise the money for his treatment. He's such a handsome guy and he is so fortunate you were in the right place at the right time. 

I have seen a horse with a necrotic eye, eventually it had to be removed anyway. As the eye died it literally shrunk into the eye socket and was painful that poor horse lived that way for four years. I would want to try antibiotics first but wouldn't hesitate if the funds are available to do the surgery and get it over with as long as he is healthy enough to handle anesthesia.


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## cornflakes (Jun 12, 2013)

thanks, i'll be updating the situation and a couple of ppl so far have expressed interest in visiting him at the hospital and trying to raise funds.

I created a new paypal email for anyone who is able to donate any amount.
It's: [email protected]

This is mainly to just help the cost of the hospitalization and pending surgery he'll most likely need. 

I've already paid $217 last night to get him hospitalized and another $50 as a gift for my coworker who drove me 2 hours all the way to the big city hospital.

I don't want to anyone to feel guilty or feel obligated and normally I don't like asking for any money (I declined a couple donations a few months back when things were well within my manageability). But now it's grown exceedingly beyond what I believe most ppl would pay for a rabbit that is not even their own. I want to do everything I can to help him live a full and normal life while I'm still here.

I've already committed to paying well over 1k out of my own pocket and will do so even if I get no donations. But at this point, yes, any help will be big help.

Costs: $217 - 3 day hospitalization
$50 - gift for coworker who drove me 2 hours to get him to big city
$330 - for eye surgery removal
$560 - (7 days x $80/day) for hospitalization after his surgery

Total: $1157.00 (converted to cdn or us dollar maybe around $900-$950).

Funds raised: $0.00

Donation can be made via paypal at: [email protected]
or if you're in korea and want to make a direct bank transfer to my NH bank account, I can try that also.

(this will be cross-linked also at: http://www.animalrescuekorea.org/bl...bit-needs-urgent-medical-attention-but-no-car

And also in ARK facebook (mainly ppl who live in Korea, expats and korean citizens).


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## Zeroshero (Jun 12, 2013)

I wish I could help, my bunny is going through a health crisis of his own right now.


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## cornflakes (Jun 13, 2013)

Thanks for all your kind wishes! One lady (Eileen) today visited the rabbit at the hospital and she also made a $100 donation towards his eye surgery. I spoke with her over the phone and it was just amazing to receive some support and encouragement!


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## KeltonB (Jun 13, 2013)

cornflakes, I made a donation but it was to the first address (before I saw the new one you set up specifically for dad bun)...could you confirm it came through okay? Thanks a good luck!!


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## eclairemom (Jun 13, 2013)

I just sent a donation to the new address. Thank you for taking such good care of these bunnies. Hope the dad is able to recover and find a forever home.


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## cornflakes (Jun 13, 2013)

to both Kelton and eclaire, THANK YOU SO MUCH. Yes, both emails are the same account anyways so it's ok. 

I just logged in now and what a relief and feeling of gratitude I have when I got the messages! He's going to have the eye surgery this Saturday and I'll be going back to Seoul to see him at the hospital and make the full payment of $1100 (which includes the eye surgery and 7 days of hospitalization afterwards). Since he'll be in Seoul and I'm in my town 1.5 hours away, I won't be able to post pics or vids of him until he's released. But I'll ask the vet there if they can send me one pic per day of him in his cube just to see how he's doing and for everyone here to see also.

Please pray that he'll make it through the surgery. The vet did tell me that there is always a risk when going under. 

So far in total I have 3 people who have donated and I'm just speechless. Whatever the bulk I'm paying all of a sudden doesn't seem like such a burden because of your support!!

Once again, I'll be cross-posting on here and http://www.animalrescuekorea.org/bl...bit-needs-urgent-medical-attention-but-no-car

Thank you from the bottom of my heart...and if dad rabbit could know...im sure he'd be moved to tears also even though he'll only have one eye now.


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## cornflakes (Jun 13, 2013)

Actually, this is something funny I want to share. I was just watching a movie today called '300'. It's about those Spartans. I just realized that there was this one guy who ended up losing an eye in battle, and he went on to narrate the whole story because Leonidus sent him back home to share the story so nobody will ever forget. It just felt weird cuz when I saw him with his eye patch n all and giving his motivational speech, the first thing I thought of was the rabbit. He even kinda looks like a rabbit.

Maybe we should name him Dilios because that is the character's name.


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## kmaben (Jun 13, 2013)

Hopefully he comes out just fine. My little bad rabbit sulked and went off her food and water when she got spayed. She got her eye removed and was seriously pissed off at me for keeping her caged up. The pain meds the doc gave her were really good. After 24 hours she was bouncing around her cage, tearing everything up, and growling at me to be let out. Uh seriously? Such a horrible little creature. Dad bun looks like he'd mellow out pretty well and be a nice house bun. Get payed tomorrow. Will put some money in the paypal.


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## cornflakes (Jun 13, 2013)

thank you so much....every little bit is helping to lighten the financial mountain i face up ahead to help him.


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## Ilovemyrabbit (Jun 13, 2013)

I'll be praying that the surgery goes well! I'm sure he'll do fine! I wouldn't worry to much! Thank you so much for helping this bunny! You are AWESOME! I'm so happy that people are donating I hope you get enough to cover a lot of his costs! I'll be praying for him and will be watching for updates on Saturday! ray:


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## cornflakes (Jun 13, 2013)

Thank u for the kind words and prayers!


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## cornflakes (Jun 14, 2013)

THANK YOU SO MUCH, another 2 members gave donations to dad rabbit: Kmaben and Clare thank you so much!!


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## Ilovemyrabbit (Jun 14, 2013)

Yay!!! Go donations!


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## cornflakes (Jun 15, 2013)

I just returned from Seoul a few minutes ago. I'm so sorry but he did not make it. I got the call while riding the subway from the hospital that he had a weak heart beat and they told me it was an emergency. I was already on the way there and when I got there, they told me he had died just a minute or so before I arrived. He was laying on the table, half covered in a blanket and the vet nurse was very sad with tears in her eyes also explaining what happened. 

The cause of death is not really known, but it is believe not to be as a result of the eye infection, but due to his general health/condition which was getting worse each day. He had stopped eating or eating regularly about 5 days ago when I had him at my workplace and was giving him oral antibiotic. I stopped giving it to him when I saw it was robbing him of his appetite just like the amoxicillin did a week previous. He didn't much at all during the 2 days prior to sending him to the big city hospital. Then while he was hospitalized for 3 days there, they had given all sorts of food but he hardly ate...maybe only sparingly and they said they tried to syringe feed him too but he wouldn't eat still. Combined with the fact that he was under extreme stress during these days (the travelling, the examination, the new environment at the hospital), I believe he died of a heart failure. He was breathing really fast during the ride and I'm sure his heart rate didn't settle down during the 3 days there too. 

So he did not have to go through with the surgery or anything else, which I was visiting there today to pay for anyways. As a result, I have refunded all the donations made to me back to you and truly appreciate and thank all of you for your support and help in this time. It's been stressful for me too, but having received such generous and caring support from people I don't even know from all over the world, means so much to me. 

Maybe his story is a bit of a sad ending, but maybe it's a good thing he's now no longer suffering and I believe there is an afterlife where I can see them again one day and they'll know me and I'll remember them.

I think I will take a break now from these forums......it's been such a rollercoaster of emotions and now that everything has been taken out of my hands and it's a done issue, I can just sort of let it go and put everything at peace now. Thank you all so much again for your time, patience, support, and everything else you did to help me through this. It means a lot to know there is a such a loving community of animal (rabbit) lovers out there who care this much.

God bless you all.

This is the last picture of him....he was already dead when I arrived but his eye was open and I was petting him the whole time while talking with the vet.


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## cornflakes (Jun 15, 2013)

I had made a "in memory of" video for Lucky Star (his son) when he died back in March.....i don't think I can stomach making another one but I thought I'd just share the quick
video I made for him....as images and videos of dad rabbit too and pics of mom rabbit (before she died also 1 year ago). The ending in korean just means that i will miss them so much and one day in heaven I will see them again and bring them lots of yummy and delicious food for them again (like I did during their time on earth). I fed them for almost 3 years every day.

In Memory Video (repeat from Lucky Star)


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## KeltonB (Jun 15, 2013)

I am heartbroken, and I can't even imagine how you feel cornflakes. I know its not much comfort at this point in time, but I bet Dilly knew you were working so hard to help him. He just had such a long way to go from the start he was given. The efforts you made and the compassion you showed to Dilly, all in a foreign place, with all kinds of obstacles, was truly "Spartan" like. Thank you for all your work - you earned my respect long ago.


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## whitelop (Jun 15, 2013)

I am so sorry.


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## kmaben (Jun 15, 2013)

Ah I'm so sorry. It was a tough battle but atleast he knew true love and kindness before he went.


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## bunnynoses (Jun 15, 2013)

I have just read this whole post, you are such a lovely person to care for this rabbit and to try and do anything to help him, I would do the same, as I have just rescued three bunnies and 2 have had babies and now have 14 bunnies and I am spending my own money on them until I can find homes for them. 
You did your best to try and help him, at least he did not suffer. 
The world needs more people like you. I am so sorry he did not make it but happy you tried to help him. 

Take care


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## Ilovemyrabbit (Jun 15, 2013)

Oh I am so sorry for your loss. I too believe in the after life and I'm sure you'll see them again. I'm so so sorry for your loss. Binky free lil guy.


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## JBun (Jun 15, 2013)

I'm so very sorry about the dad bun. It really seemed like he was going to have a chance, but the stress of being sick is sometimes just too hard on rabbits. You did all you could for him, and in very difficult circumstances. 

I fully expect to see the pets I've loved and lost, one day too. I'm sure dad bun and Lucky Star will be waiting there for you, to thank you for caring about them and trying to help, when no one else did.


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## eclairemom (Jun 15, 2013)

So sorry for your loss. He isn't in pain anymore and running and jumping with his mate and son. :rabbithop


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## cornflakes (Jun 16, 2013)

Thank you everyone for your responses. You guys are so wonderful and I only hope that each of you will blessed and filled with happiness each and everyday with your own respective rabbits and pets. Although it has been really trying at times for me mentally, physically, and emotionally, I will always remember the enormous outpouring of generous people here who took the time to give love and support for me and the rabbit(s).


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## cornflakes (Nov 7, 2020)

Wow, I was amazed to know that this thread/experience that I went through back in 2013 is still available. It's been 7 years since but I always remember this because it was my first experience with rabbits. Today I still have one of the rabbits from my old school with me. She was rescued at 2 days old when abandoned by the mother in winter and would have froze to death. I took her home, hand raised her and now she's 3 and half years old, her name is Samy (some pics). But these days I have been rescuing/feeding/caring for street cats / homeless cats and occasionally a street/homeless puppy. I've successfully saved 4 of them and found them homes. If it is ok to share, you can follow my journey on tiktok @ tddongtv

I just thought it's so amazing this thread was still here and I have so many fond memories of how it all started for me, right here in this forum. Not sure if anyone here even remembers me! Bless you everyone and take good care...you're all so loving and generous and I never forgot that experience in all these years.


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## JBun (Nov 8, 2020)

Of course I remember you! I don't think I could ever forget this journey of yours with the dad bun and his son. I'm glad to see you have a rabbit in your life. I'm sure with hand raising your little bun, that you must have a really close bond with her. Anyways, glad to see you back and hope you stick around.


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