# Bedding and salt lick help!



## alysha23 (Jul 25, 2012)

I just got a lionhead bunny a couple days ago and was told to use pine wood shavings as bedding. I am not going to try and litter train her so she would be using the pine wood shavings for bedding and to go to the bathroom. Any suggestions or ideas on the wood pine shavings? My rabbit cage is very simple one side is a hutch the other side has wire. I have been covering the hutch side with atleast an inch or two of pine shavings and then the food, water and toys go in the other side. Any help would be greatly appreaciated as I am knew to the Lionhead bunnies. 
Also, she licks everyone like crazy when we hold her and I have heard mixed things about salt lick/mineral licks. Any ideas on those?

Thank you so much for you time!


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## silversky2668 (Jul 25, 2012)

Hi and welcome! Rabbits really don't need salt licks in their diet as they get all of their minerals and such from a good quality pellet, vegetables, and lots of hay (which is important for digestion and wearing down teeth).

Pine shavings are actually not the best idea for bedding--they're known to cause liver problems in rabbits due to the natural chemicals they contain (which is the strong odor you smell when you open the bag). There is also suspicion they could cause some cancer, which is not proven.

If you're not going to litter train her and want to keep using bedding, I would go for aspen shavings and straw. If she's always licking things, you could give her a soft toy "friend." My rabbit has a stuffed dog he's always "grooming." But if she's going to be outside, make sure anything you choose is something you're comfortable leaving her alone with so she can't accidentally ingest something while you're not watching her.


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## Blue eyes (Jul 26, 2012)

:yeahthat:


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## cwolfec (Jul 26, 2012)

Congrats on the new bun! I have a lionhead too  Make sure you start brushing her right away to reduce hair balls!

I've always used bedding (I use Carefresh, but wood shavings in your case) in the litter box and either a fleece blanket or newspaper in the bottom of the cage. That way they don't confuse the whole cage as one giant litter box!

I wouldn't use Pine shavings for health reasons...you can use Aspen instead. 

Don't bother with the salt lick. She may just be so excited to get attention that she's giving everyone kisses!


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## missyscove (Jul 26, 2012)

I too agree with the above. In my opinion, rabbits fed a quality pellet get the salt and minerals they need from the pellet and don't need a salt lick. 
I would skip the pine shavings and use either kiln dried pine or something else (but definitely not cedar) since pine shavings can be irritating. In my experience unless it's really cold, rabbits don't really need bedding, just a solid surface to rest on. I'm not sure why you're not trying littertraining but it's really quite easy and much cleaner in my opinion.


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## lalaleyla (Jul 26, 2012)

Your rabbit doesn't need a salt lick. But it wouldn't hurt to buy one since they are cheap.


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## MiniLopHop (Jul 26, 2012)

I gave my rabbits salt licks in the beginning because I didn't know better. It hung out in their house for over a year with not a nibble before I threw it away because it was getting old and crusty. Don't waste your money.

I agree that litter training is easy and helps keep their environment cleaner, which can help prevent disease issues.


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## LakeCondo (Jul 26, 2012)

Is the rabbit a baby? Maybe that's why no litter box training yet. Otherwise, I can't imagine having a rabbit for 5-10+ years & not training it. Or maybe the rabbit is already elderly & it seems too late.

You just start with a cat litter box with non-clay, non-clumping litter & when the bunny goes, put the result into the box, so she'll figure it out.


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## HolyHandGrenade (Jul 26, 2012)

My bunny was kept in a pen filled with a mixture of aspen bedding and Carefresh, and when I brought her home I set her in a pen on a tile floor with a litter pan filled with Yesterday's News litter (recycled newspaper) and she immediately knew to pee there. She has never peed outside of that box, and only makes occasional poops outside of it. Bunnies are very smart  (oh yeah, and there's no chance that she was previously litter trained because she was 8-9 weeks old when I brought her home)

I'm glad to see some mention of salt/mineral licks here. I was curious myself since I had them for my rat years ago, but I've also noticed from a lot of reading here that just because a pet store offers an item for small animals and include a picture of a rabbit, it doesn't mean it's necessary. I'm glad she'll get all the minerals she needs from her current diet and I don't need one more thing cluttering her crate floor


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## MyBabyHasPaws (Jul 26, 2012)

I bought salt licks in the beginning because I thought they needed them! They never touched them.. after about 2 weeks I tossed them. Learned on here they arent needed if you're feeding good pellets. 

Why dont you want to litter train? It really isnt that hard and there really isnt much "training" involved. You see what corner your bun pees/poops in the most but a litter box there and VOILA! 

Good luck!


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## alysha23 (Jul 26, 2012)

Thanks all for the information. She is just a baby. I really do not have a reason for not litter training her, I just thought it would be difficult plus I was going off of what I was told when I bought her. That she uses pine shavings for bedding and a vegetable mix for food which includes pellets. I guess I can always give litter training a try I just never tried litter training with any of my bunnies to be honest. Any ideas as to what to get and how to go about training her?

I was also told and I just wanted to verify this that her litter/bedding should be changed almost every day or every other day and that her pen should be cleaned with a mixture of water/vinegar atleast once a week. Can anyone tell me how accurate this is?

Thanks for all the information it was very informative.


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## Blue eyes (Jul 26, 2012)

*alysha23 wrote: *


> Thanks all for the information. She is just a baby. I really do not have a reason for not litter training her, I just thought it would be difficult plus I was going off of what I was told when I bought her. That she uses pine shavings for bedding and a vegetable mix for food which includes pellets. I guess I can always give litter training a try I just never tried litter training with any of my bunnies to be honest. Any ideas as to what to get and how to go about training her?
> 
> I was also told and I just wanted to verify this that her litter/bedding should be changed almost every day or every other day and that her pen should be cleaned with a mixture of water/vinegar atleast once a week. Can anyone tell me how accurate this is?
> 
> Thanks for all the information it was very informative.



The healthiest pellets are plain pellets with no "extras" in it. Fresh veggies shouldn't be introduced until at least 12 weeks of age - some say later. Do you know how many weeks old she is? Is she getting hay too? I didn't see that mentioned, but she should have unlimited hay. Remember, if you switch her pellets, do so gradually by mixing the old with the new. 

If she's close to the age of being able to be spayed, you may want to wait til then to litter train her. Spayed buns train quite easily. Since my bunnies have come already fixed, I've not tried to train a young bunny. I'm sure there are others on here who have. But the bunny can lose that training when her hormones kick in. But don't worry, she'll train easily after she's spayed.

With my litter trained buns, I use wood pellets for litter, topped with hay. I change it every 4 days. It never gets to the point of smelling. If you can smell it, it's time to change it. When I change the litter, I sweep out the cage of stray hay and fur. It's such an easy clean up with litter-trained bunnies!


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## alysha23 (Jul 26, 2012)

She is around 6 weeks old. She isn't getting hay because we were told not yet. If she should be getting hay can you tell me if there is a specific kind she should be getting? I am trying to post pictures of her but I have to figure it out first.

Again thanks for all the help....this information is very helpful and I never had a lionhead before and I'd like her to live for a very long time.


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## alysha23 (Jul 26, 2012)

I figured out how to post pictures.....Above is Bella!


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## Blue eyes (Jul 26, 2012)

*alysha23 wrote: *


> She is around 6 weeks old. She isn't getting hay because we were told not yet. If she should be getting hay can you tell me if there is a specific kind she should be getting? I am trying to post pictures of her but I have to figure it out first.
> 
> Again thanks for all the help....this information is very helpful and I never had a lionhead before and I'd like her to live for a very long time.



from http://rabbit.org/faq/sections/diet.html#basics
What quantities of food should I feed babies and "teenagers"?

Birth to 3 weeks--mother's milk 
3 to 4 weeks--mother's milk, nibbles of alfalfa and pellets 
4 to 7 weeks--mother's milk, access to alfalfa and pellets 
7 weeks to 7 months--unlimited pellets, unlimited hay (plus see 12 weeks below) 
12 weeks--introduce vegetables (one at a time, quantities under 1/2 oz.)

She is just adorable! As you can see, at this age she should have access to alfalfa hay. 

It looks likeI have to post the rest of the quote from rabbit.org in a separate post...
For some reason it was erasing the 2nd part about 12 weeks to 7 months.


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## LakeCondo (Jul 26, 2012)

*alysha23 wrote: *


> Thanks all for the information. She is just a baby. I really do not have a reason for not litter training her, I just thought it would be difficult plus I was going off of what I was told when I bought her. That she uses pine shavings for bedding and a vegetable mix for food which includes pellets. I guess I can always give litter training a try I just never tried litter training with any of my bunnies to be honest. Any ideas as to what to get and how to go about training her?
> 
> I was also told and I just wanted to verify this that her litter/bedding should be changed almost every day or every other day and that her pen should be cleaned with a mixture of water/vinegar atleast once a week. Can anyone tell me how accurate this is?
> 
> Thanks for all the information it was very informative.



Just about everything you were told is wrong, so I'm glad you found RO.

Besides the pine shavings being potentially deadly, she really shouldn't have veggies at this time, as they usually produce runny poop. If her poop remains solid, it's ok to continue with a little, BUT let us know what veggies you're giving. 

The main part of the diet should be unlimited hay and unlimited alfalfa [not timothy] pellets. Hay is necessary to keep the digestive process moving alone and alfalfa pellets are needed for growing rabbits. Usually veggies are introduced slowly at about 3 months & the transition to timothy pellets at 6 months or so. If you can get it, alfalfa hay would be good for awhile, but isn't that important to have it rather than timothy the way it's important with pellets.

The cleaning guidelines sound right, but you'll be throwing out a lot if you don't get a large cat litter box with high sides. Just put it in a corner where she 'goes' & put the contents into the box. Keep doing that until it works.


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## Blue eyes (Jul 26, 2012)

PART 2 FROM ABOVE...


What quantities of food should I feed young adults? (7 months to 1 year)


introduce timothy hay, grass hay, and oat hays, decrease alfalfa 
decrease pellets to 1/2 cup per 6 lbs. body weight 
increase daily vegetables gradually 
fruit daily ration no more than 1 oz. to 2 oz. per 6 lbs. body weight (because of calories)


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## LakeCondo (Jul 26, 2012)

And that mesh on her floor isn't good for her feet. Put something like plastic needlepoint canvas on top.

And do let us know what veggies she's currently having. I'd cut out all but the most easily digested.


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## Blue eyes (Jul 26, 2012)

*LakeCondo wrote: *


> And that mesh on her floor isn't good for her feet. Put something like plastic needlepoint canvas on top.
> 
> And do let us know what veggies she's currently having. I'd cut out all but the most easily digested.



oh, my, yes. It looks like her little feet could get caught in those large holes in the floor. 

If you don't have needlepoint canvas, try a piece of tile or cardboard or an old towel (if she doesn't try to eat it). Something to make it more solid until you figure out a more permanent solution.


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## Blue eyes (Jul 26, 2012)

Did the hutch/cage come with your bunny or did you purchase that separately (or already had it)?


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## alysha23 (Jul 26, 2012)

I am currently feeding her Fiesta max its a pellet and veggie mixby kaytee.... That is all she gets as far as food except for alfalfa blocks. The pen was given to me but I have been making renovations slowly.... I'll look into that plastic needle point for over top.


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## Blue eyes (Jul 26, 2012)

*alysha23 wrote: *


> I am currently feeding her Fiesta max its a pellet and veggie mixby kaytee.... That is all she gets as far as food except for alfalfa blocks. The pen was given to me but I have been making renovations slowly.... I'll look into that plastic needle point for over top.



She really is darling! I'm so sorry that you were given such bad information. :X

You should consider switching her gradually to a healthy plain pellet. All you need to do is mix 1 part new to 3 parts old feed. Do that for a couple days, then do equal parts of each for a few days. Finally, mix 3 parts new to 1 part old for a few days. You should be able to find juvenile rabbit pellets. Those should be alfalfa-based. 

She also needs actual alfalfa hay (timothy hay if you can't find alfalfa). The cubes are not a substitute for the loose hay. 

It's important at her young age to give her the best diet. I'm so glad you are taking the time to find out what's best for her. :wink


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## alysha23 (Jul 26, 2012)

My local pet store sells alfalfa hay. I will have to go this weekend and get her some. If I recall correctly from a previous post, she is to have all the alfalfa hay she wants? Also I read online somewhere that to give them a dish of food, which my dish is 5 oz, and she must eat it all before giving her more food. 
I definitely want whats best for her and I really don't like all the conflicting stories that are found online. This is a lot of information and I have a lot of stuff to get especially if I am going to try litter training her.
I am kind of upset that I bought a decent size bag of Fiesta max and it isn't what she should be eating.


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## Nelsons_Mom (Jul 26, 2012)

I absolutely love her dutch markings on her little fluffy self!

Yeah, unfortunately pet stores aren't known for having exceptionally knowlwdgable staff, I'm sorry you feel like you wasted your money on the food and bedding. I always remind myself that even if my oxbow (the bran d i use) is a dollar or two more than some of the brands that have colors and seeds and such in it, it will probably save me an expensive vet visit in the future since, just like with people, the better the diet the healthier they tend to be.

This forum has a great group of people and a fabulous library section that is incredibly helpful. I'm glad you found us and double checked what the store told you, now little Bella has a chance at a healthier life


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## alysha23 (Jul 26, 2012)

I am glad I found this site as well. Everyone has been so helpful so far and so informative and I am very thankful for that! I am definitely more at ease knowing what I have to get to keep her healthy and to grow. I think my pet store sells Oxbow so maybe I will look into that brand for her.


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## Blue eyes (Jul 27, 2012)

*alysha23 wrote: *


> My local pet store sells alfalfa hay. I will have to go this weekend and get her some. If I recall correctly from a previous post, she is to have all the alfalfa hay she wants? Also I read online somewhere that to give them a dish of food, which my dish is 5 oz, and she must eat it all before giving her more food.
> I definitely want whats best for her and I really don't like all the conflicting stories that are found online. This is a lot of information and I have a lot of stuff to get especially if I am going to try litter training her.
> I am kind of upset that I bought a decent size bag of Fiesta max and it isn't what she should be eating.



I understand your frustration.:grumpy: But like Nelson's mom said, a better pellet keeps her healthier and so saves money in the long run.

The new food can be free fed when she's this young. That just means she can have as much as she wants. The idea behind having her finish her bowl before giving her more pertains to those mixed foods that have add-ins. They say that because otherwise bunny will pick out all the treats and skip the healthy pellets. But if you get her the plain oxbow pellets, then that isn't an issue. 

And the hay she can also have as much as she likes. Mine don't "finish" their hay, but they will eat more if I put fresh hay in for them. I do this twice a day. For some reason they like it when it's first put in their cage.


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## alysha23 (Jul 27, 2012)

Sounds great! Thanks for the information. I will be going tonight to get her hay and pellets. Also to hopefully find the right litter to try and litter train her. I went on that rabbit.org site which is also very informative and have narrowed down what to look for in litter and what not to get. Thanks again for all the information and for taking the time to post on here!


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## LakeCondo (Jul 27, 2012)

There are a few things that people on RO disagree about, but we all agree that youngsters should have unlimited hay & alfalfa pellets, that most pet store employees are uninformed at best, & that the pellets shouldn't have any add-ins [at least not for youngsters.


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## alysha23 (Jul 27, 2012)

Thank you! She started making a noise today when she eats....Is this normal or does anyone have any ideas what it could be. I never heard her do it before.


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## alysha23 (Jul 27, 2012)

disregard......I called my vet and she is going to see little Bella tomorrow!


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## LakeCondo (Jul 28, 2012)

It depends what the noise it, but if it sounds a little like a cat purring, it's a good sound. But if it's a louder tooth grinding it could be a tooth problem. But at 6 weeks I doubt a tooth problem would be the case, unless it was congenital.


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## alysha23 (Jul 28, 2012)

It is louder than a cat purr.... So off to the vet she will go..... Hoping for nothing serious


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## alysha23 (Jul 28, 2012)

She has parasites something called cocsidea or something like that


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## alysha23 (Jul 28, 2012)

Bella died tonight from coccidia. I did all I could for her but she didn't make it


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## LakeCondo (Jul 29, 2012)

I'm so sorry to hear this. Bunnies are so fragile at that age. She probably was ill when you got her, it just hadn't developed to show. You did all you could & she enjoyed the time that she DID have.


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## alysha23 (Jul 29, 2012)

Thanks for the support..... The hardest is know she really didn't have a chance and she was so young.


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## Blue eyes (Jul 29, 2012)

I'm so sorry. She was such a doll. :hug2:

I did have a bad feeling after your post with the vet's diagnosis. 

On a positive side, you have learned (I think) alot about bunnies in a very short amount of time. I think with a little more research you will be ready to try again. I agree that she was likely ill before you got her. You already know that those who had her didn't know how to properly care for her based on the advice they gave you.

If you do decide to get another bunny, you might consider finding a rabbit rescue. With a rescue bun, she will be vet-checked, spayed and maybe even litter trained. They usually have buns of all ages, including under 1 year. This way you can hopefully avoid future heartache.


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## alysha23 (Jul 29, 2012)

Yes....I did learn alot after bunnies and it did really upset me that she passed so soon. Its unfortunate that the people I got her from really seem to not know that much about bunnies and I will not be purchasing again from them. I did do some research on bunnies around my area and I am looking at local breeders that are registered and bunnies that have had their vaccinations. I just feel sorry for Bella and her siblings who never really had a chance.

Again thanks for all the information and support....although I miss Bella she did teach me alot. With time I am looking forwarding to getting another bunny and hopefully being able to make many memories with it.


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