# Kitten terrorizing bunnies.....



## Bo B Bunny (Sep 18, 2008)

Not sure where to post this right now - I think we need to add Health and Safety to the title of this forum...... anyhow..... 

Diesel is a very active and well...... we call him Evil......... kitten. He's constantly going and playing and sometimes he bites a bit too hard and it hurts... but generally it's not mean - it's just play.

For some reason he thinks he needs to harass Bo and Clover. I'm not sure what to do...... We have just started blocking Bo's cage as best as we can and we watch/listen for him to get up on the desk where Clover is.

The bunnies seem to handle him ok - Bo is going to bite one of his toes off eventually, I'm sure! 

I love Diesel but he's really making me wonder if this is going to work out. We have to pen him up when we aren't around to watch him.

Has anyone had any kitten experience like this? Will he calm down and leave the bunnies alone eventually? We will have Diesel declawed (it's a law in my household!) but that won't be until after the first of the year. That will make me feel a bit better about his little paws reaching into the bunny cages..... they will have more attacking equiptment (teeth, claws) against him then.

He is walking on my keyboard as I 

3ty3pe....... yeah......:?


----------



## Luv-bunniz (Sep 18, 2008)

This is simple, or at least worked for me and my friends...Get an old rabbit water bottle, when he goes to walk to the cage shake the bottle, if he dosent respond spray him a little with it. After a while he will learn the noise of the bottle=getting sprayed and wont bother even going near the cages. But please rethink the declawing - it is a horrible thing for an animal to go through, and if he was to get lost outside it will stop him doing alot of what is right for a cat (scratching trees, playing with other cats, defending himself, climbing, kill/hunting etc. 
Otherwise, spray some citronella spray around the cages and the door frame, or get a censor mat for the door way. OR close the door to the rabbit room/where the cat is kept.

PS. Nor will he be able to defend himself against the rabbits if he is declawed, you can say "my super laid-back, gentle rabbit wont bite or be mean" but they can and will if they get upset.


----------



## Maureen Las (Sep 18, 2008)

I would really be concerned about a kitten that behaves that way around the rabbits. I wouldn't even keep him in the same area. All I can think about is the lethal damage that a cat bite can do to a rabbit.; I'm sure the kitten doesn't mean it but it still could occur
I am not against cats as I have 2 but they are older and just totally ignore the rabbits except for Bill who actually likes them.
If you do declaw( we also are against it after they are over about 9 months) he could just use his mouth more which would be worse. 
can't you keep him in a separate part of the house?


----------



## Bo B Bunny (Sep 18, 2008)

The bunnies are in the main room of the house. You have to go through that room to go anywhere else basically.

I might try the sensor mat, but I sure wish I could just get him to leave the bunnies alone like Tank does. Tank used to play with Bo but Bo bit his butt once and took some of Tank's fluffy butthairs...... that did it. Now, Tank just watches, but won't bother them if they are out and roaming around...... 

I know the issues of declawing, but in our house - no claws or no kitty. They are way too destructive. I know that Bunnies can hurt the cat, but the bunnies aren't free to chase him.... Bunnies are more suseptible to infection and stuff from the cat than the cat from the bunny.... Cat bites and scratches are bad for anyone.... and as delicate as bunnies are for that sort of thing - I have to protect them first. Bo won't hurt him - he might nip him or take some fur. He's probably the meanie of the bunch. Clover is terrified cause Diesel gets on top of her cage and tries to swat at her.... 

I wish I had a room to just put the bunnies in for their own safety... but then we might not interact with them as much


----------



## kirst3buns (Sep 18, 2008)

Diesel needs a friend his own size he can pick on. You need to adopt another rambuncious kitty.lol

I'm only partially kidding here. I had an incredibly rambuncious siamese kitten that was driving us nuts. I know it sounds like you double your trouble by adding a second, but we adopted an older kitten finally and the two spent all their time wrestling with each other and stopped driving us crazzy! :biggrin2:

When he's older he will probably just ignore the rabbits. I have two cats and one is frightened to death of the rabbits and runs in the other direction and the other one is curious - but from a distance. She likes to watch them but doesn't want to be close to them.


----------



## Luv-bunniz (Sep 18, 2008)

Honestly? a cat wont give a toot to be penned up for a few hours if it gets out to play at a night time for an hour or so, we had a litter of kittens born here and they were penned up in a 3ftx5ft pen with the mother from 12pm-10pm (midnight one night to 10pm the next  ) and then were let out in a room full of boxes, feather toys, tubes, tunnels, scratch posts, mini-tents , anything a kitten could want, for 2 hours at night. At this time they were also getting trained - they were punished for biting anything other then the toys, scratching furniture, harrasing the rabbits/guinea pigs etc and they were fine. They all got new homes at 12 weeks old (JMO but I think that is an ideal age as the mum will teach them alot. We never had to do anything as far as litter training as the mum taught them everything  ) and we never had complaints as far as biting, scratching furniture and litter skills went. Oh and about the censor mat, be careful wich one you use - some of them get supplied with toxic essential oils but you need the one with the citronella oil. Pen the kitten up and put him next to the rabbit cage, put a peice of perspex beetween them and the kitten will belive its a magic force that he cant get past to get at the rabbits. Make sence?


----------



## naturestee (Sep 18, 2008)

Put hardware cloth on the cages. That's what I used to keep my cats from bothering Oberon when he was ina dog crate in the living room. They liked to poke him while he was sleeping.:disgust:

Also, I lock my cats in a separate room when the rabbits are playing. They are fine with Oberon and Fey, really the problem is that Mocha freaks out if she so much as sees them and then takes her aggression out on Loki.

I agree on the second kitten part, that's why I adopted two at once. Or play with him a lot. I've seen some neat mitts for playing with cats that are thick and go all the way up to the elbow. That would be perfect for wrestling with him. Wish I had one when we had a lone kitten as a did, I just used my slippers instead. He loved wrestling with those, provided they were on my feet, lol!


----------



## Bo B Bunny (Sep 18, 2008)

I'm so glad I asked you guys! You know when you have a situation and you're frustrated, sometimes you can't think of the answers - but you all have given me a lot!

Hardware clotharound the bottom of Bo's Cage will be a huge help! and I have a brand new roll of it  He's at floor level so he's the one Diesel harasses the most! They can actually get to know each other without the danger of one getting hurt! yay! 

Bo can go in his hidey area and not have to worry!(I think I might replace a couple of his NIC panels with the solid ones too! or cover them with something like Coroplast!Clover is a bit harder, but I think I want to build her a cage anyhow and I think I can do the hardware cloth for her and she'd like that as well.... she doesn't like too much open around her.... I can make the back of her cage solid with something (Solid NIC maybe!!) and that will help keep her litter inside too! (her bad leg... flips the litter out really bad).... 

Diesel is in a big NIC cage I made him unless we are around. He gets a LOT of playtime - like all day long if I am not at work... at least 12 hours - on days I do work he gets about 8 hours. He's really good about his litterbox from that too (I love crate training kittens and puppies!) He even used the bunnies' litterbox in their pen one day LOL! We play with him ALL the time..... I feel bad tho cause today, I didn't know he was around and he attacked my bare foot - BIT HARD and I jerked in a reaction - he hit his head on the coffee table 

We have tons of toys - but his favorite? a pair of socks folded into themselves and a glove..... LOL! 

I do hate caging the animals but sometimes it's the best for them with the time they get out each day. One day, maybe Diesel will be a lot less aggressive....until then, I think he will be caged or maybe locked in a room if we can work that out.... when we aren't around. Right now, the cage is plenty big - later he might be better just in Lexi's room.

Tony seems fine.... Diesel must be afraid of him cause he doesn't even offer to go into Luke's room where Tony lives. Tony is much bigger tho! When Luke goes to college, that might become the bunny room..... that would also help! 

Diesel is already neutered. I thought that might help but he's gotten worse LOL! I swear I'm going to feed him sleeping pills! (just kidding - don't worry!) I really think Diesel just wants a playmate but I can't have another animal in here. Hubby about flipped over Diesel. We are in a 3 bedroom, 1 bathroom, country house. It's not terribly small but it's not set up very well. We have to go through the laundryroom or Lexi's room to get to Luke's room. Everything is a huge _circle_ in a sense _-_ connecting from one to the other except our livingroom, master bedroom and the bathroom..... Of course this makes for a great bunny 500 track or Kitty chase path!


----------



## undergunfire (Sep 19, 2008)

Zaide and Diesel should live together.....Zaide thinks he is Kittyzilla and climbs the sides of the NIC cages .

I didn't have time to read through all the posts here, so sorry if you have to answer the same questions....

You don't have NIC cages, do you? If not, why not build some and put a top on them? My kitties can't get to my bunnies this way.

Not to argue, but declawing does so much mental damage to kitties :?. If Diesel was to ever escape from your house he would have no way to defend himself and could be killed more easily by a predator. But....he is your kitty and it is your choice .


----------



## seniorcats (Sep 19, 2008)

Sent you a PM. Hope it helps!

Had another thought - I'll send Frankenbunny to get him in line.


----------



## NZminilops (Sep 19, 2008)

Declawing is terribly cruel - the toe makes up a great amount of the length of the cats foot and declawing removes the ends of the toes as far as I know.

Have you thought aboutsoft paws for the cat?* http://www.softpaws.com/*


I also think it's not the cats claws so much as the teeth that are the worry anyway.


----------



## Bo B Bunny (Sep 19, 2008)

Thanks again all 

Michelle, I needed the link for those toenail things (Soft Paws) cause I want those for now! I know all about the declawing thing.... it's just not an option for us. SIL has a cat who couldn't be declawed and she has destroyed their furniture too. I've been there, done that..... anyhow, one step at a time... 

Yes, We have NIC cages and they are covered..... Bo can get down and get away if he's on top but if he's down below, Diesel will chase him all around the cage exterior.... Bo really can't get away well.

Diesel is Spider Kitty...... *Spider kitty, spider kitty, does whatever a spider kitty does....*...... ALL OVER THE PLACE!! 

Frankenbunny! YES! She must be the answer................... well, Bo is a DraculaBunny so .... well.... it works! LOL!


----------



## Luv-bunniz (Sep 19, 2008)

Unfortunatly, with a cat come responsibility and risks, one of them risks is your cat will scratch the furniture to peices  We moved the lounge to a different room, re-decorated it, bought a new couch, the couch cost Â£138, 2 weeks later the cover is partly un-threaded on one of the arm rests and there is threads comeing out of it where the cats have scratched it, oh well, throw a blanket over it and nobody can see. Its simple and more humane then having the cats de-clawed. You can use soft paws for the rest of his life?


----------



## undergunfire (Sep 19, 2008)

Why don't my kitties tear up my leather couch ? Actually...the only thing they have ruined with their claws is the cheapo FREE curtains in the living room....hahahaha.

I do have odd kitties. One is a dwarf and the other is a loud-mouth.



Bo...just send Diesel here. Obviously he can teach my kitties how to BE kitties :laugh:.


----------



## SOOOSKA (Sep 19, 2008)

Hey Bo what is Hardware Cloth? That's a new one to me.

Also I bought some Flexable Cutting Boards form the dollar store (2 for $1.00) and put them around Winston & Vega's cage, they work really well and cheap too. LOL

Susan


----------



## LadyBug (Sep 19, 2008)

*SOOOSKA wrote: *


> Hey Bo what is Hardware Cloth? That's a new one to me.
> 
> Also I bought some Flexible Cutting Boards form the dollar store (2 for $1.00) and put them around Winston & Vega's cage, they work really well and cheap too. LOL
> 
> Susan




i believe it's like really fine chain mail. but i could be wrong

Luv-Bunniz, both of our cats are declawed. Pickles was done because i was really little when we got him/he wouldn't stop clawing vertical things(sofa included.). we tried spraying him, but it would work. Prince was done so that he wouldn't have an advantage over Pickles. they've both adjusted just fine and don't bit a ton, etc. the vet has told us that if they got out, they could climb a tree with just the back claws, also.

my best idea is.................

get a garden squirt bottle and just keep it near the rabbit cages. when ever he go any where near messing them, tell him no and squirt him until he leaves. 


i hope you figure some thing out. we've been lucky that Prince has calmed down. Pickles'll take any one, animals or human, so he had no problems with J. the closest i've come to having trouble with him was the hamsters in the hamster balls. and they both ran away as soon as the hammie came at them, LOL!


----------



## seniorcats (Sep 19, 2008)

I'll give some free advertising for Feliway diffusers. They really do help calm down cats and stop verticle scratching. I don't know why I didn't think of it last night.

http://catfaeries.com/feliwayfaq.html

I bought the diffusers to help integrate a new young cat to the house. The first most obvious change I noticed was all the cats stopped scratching the furniture. I bought the diffusers locally at petsmart and then I get the refulls at Cat Faeries in bulk.

The most important things to rember are it takes a month for these to start working, they must be refilled every month and you need one diffuser for every 500 square feet of cat living space. If used as recommened, they work extremely well. I wish these had been available years ago. 

You can always ask the Cat Faeries people questions as they have cats and rabbits living together so they are very knowledgable. The one draw back to Feliway is the cost. With 16 cats, I find they are worth it. Some of my cats would use scratching posts - both verticle and horizontal - and some wouldn't. With Feliway they mercifully stopped tearing up the furniture and use the cheapie cardboard scratchers I get for a few bucks.

I can't speak to Soft Paws as I have never used them. Most of the time I try trimming nails but some cats won't let me.

I would highly, highly recommend trying the Feliway to mellow out Deisel and to stop any verticle scratching. I do have some some extra plug ins if you want me to send them to you. Someone else gave me a few extra. Let me know.


----------



## Bo B Bunny (Sep 19, 2008)

I would LOVE to try it! Tank and Diesel could probably get along better too! Would you mind sending me a plug? and I'll order the refill for it?

I had heard of these things whena friend of mine had a cat urinating on her bed. The vet recommended it and the cat stopped almost immediately! 

We sure love Diesel and want to find a solution that we can all live with! If these work for the digging/clawing stuff - he might get to keep his little daggers......


----------



## naturestee (Sep 19, 2008)

You can get Soft Paws at Petsmart, some other pet stores, and most vet clinics. They are a great alternative to declawing but they do need to be replaced regularly. Also, regular clipping helps. Start now so he gets used to both clipping and you messing with his claws for if/when you get Soft Paws.

Hardware cloth is like chicken wire but smaller holes- essentially a grid made of small wire. Certain sizes are used to make rabbit cages but the really tiny-holed stuff is great for cat-proofing rabbit cages and preventing rabbits from biting each other through cage bars.


----------



## Bo B Bunny (Sep 19, 2008)

Oh gosh, I never thought of putting those little things on his toes.... HAHA! He barely sits still for me to do his claws.... wiggles, whines, bites...... 

I use hardware cloth for the bottoms of my cages..... with the NIC I make a bottom on them part of the way, and the floors of each level I make. They are covered in hardware cloth, then a resting mat, then either a blankie, or a litterbox usually but I want it so that if they move that stuff around - their little feets don't get into the grids and they hurt themselves.... 

I buy it in large rolls at Tractor Supply


----------



## furryface (Sep 22, 2008)

how old is Diesel? Kittens are busy little devils!
Bella thought she could fly and had quite a leap going! now that she's a...snert..dignified older lady (going on 4) she can't be bothered to jump...unless you happen to be a feather...then all bets are off!

I've had Bella since she was 3 months old, I'm not about to get into the declawing debate except to say 1. if it is a matter of declaw or no home...then declaw, 2. both my cats have been declawed and they have no problems! they both had their back claws and could/do use them when needed.

he will settle down as he gets older...get a laser pointer that will give you the giggles and tire him out! a tired furball is a good furball!

put some catnip in the toe of one of those rolled up socks...that'll keep him busy too!

Bella is scared to death of Lola (which Lola just can't understand...I get the puzzled bunny look every time they get together) and will run if Lola so much as blinks! we think perhaps she put a paw where it didn't belong and got nipped..


----------



## Bo B Bunny (Sep 22, 2008)

furryface, I think you have Diesel in a 4 year old female! LOL! 

He's only 3.5 mos old now! He was 5 weeks when we took him because they were getting into the drives at my parents and we were afraid they'd get hit. We also weren't sure then what their age was and we were off by 2 weeks - Mom thought they were 7 weeks..... 

He's SO cute and not mean mostly - just playful and rotten! I think he's going to get a lesson from BO..... he's just not giving up the "try to catch the bunny in the cage" game!


----------



## furryface (Sep 22, 2008)

training ideas that may or may not work--

_Balloons_- blow them up tape on the the table or where ever he's not supposed to be..the idea being he will pop them with his daggers, scare himself silly and never do it again..Bella simply popped them and came trotting down the hallway with a piece in her mouth to show me her new toy!

_squirt gun_-cats hate water right? your aim needs to be very good..(aim for the rear..bigger target)
Bella loves to play in the water....I had her dripping wet and the gun empty and she was still on the table!

_shaker can_- a pop can (soda, coke...whatever you get your fizzy stuff in LOL), a handful of gravel, tape the top. the trick is in the timing...it's best if you shake just as the hamster wheel starts to turn in that fuzzy head...if not, be consistant...
this it the only thing that Bella will pay attention to..

_time outs_-as long as they are short...it does help to settle them down...and Bella did figure out if she got on the table it earned her time in the bedroom away from her people-which she hates! (she's a calico)


enjoy him while he's little...Kittenhood is only once! he will grow out of most of the "evil"


----------



## ilovetoeatchocolate (Sep 23, 2008)

Careful about the balloon idea as it might pop, send pieces flying and the buns get a hold of one of the pieces and ingest it. 

Also, the loud noise might scare the bunny so much and cause a heart attack. 

Just a thought. 

Shannon


----------



## furryface (Sep 23, 2008)

now..every bun is different...but Lola responds to the shaker can too! I don't shake it as hard as I do with "Wild Thing", just one quick shake..but it does get her attention and she stops chomping on the rug!( if Lola is in her cage and hears the can, she knows it's not for her..but she looks for Bella to see what kind of trouble she's in LOL)

you can also try clapping your hands....that doesn't work well with either furball..but it did for my other cat...


----------



## Leaf (Sep 23, 2008)

*seniorcats wrote: *


> I can't speak to Soft Paws as I have never used them. Most of the time I try trimming nails but some cats won't let me.



My cat uses Soft Paws.

They have been used on him since he was a kitten so he is used to the application. They work well if sized correctly but you have to keep an eye on the nails. A cat loses the sheath of a nail approx every month so you have to make sure they all are on. I usually check once a week or so.

Cheaper on eBay at times, easy to order and find.

They're cute when you mis-stick them and they glue to your fingers also. 

My cat, being blind, is very touchy feely and he has no sense when it comes to keeping his claws retracted.

Declawing isn't something I like. Declawing a blind cat is absolutely a NO in my mind. Once, Simon did get outside. I have dogs. Neighbors have dogs. The poor cat was terrified but managed to climb about 20' into a tree for safety.

Could he have climed without claws? Possibly, but with certianty, even with Soft Paws on.

If you try them remember to plug up that thumb or dewclaw they have - it can be a ripper as well.

I only do front feet. Cant really say about the back feet - I'd rather him be able to scratch an itch or kick a foe if ever encountered - BUT a cat kicking at a rabbit? I dunno - probably in your case would try the back claws at least once, for safety sake - and since it's not permanant, if not needed - just dont reapply.



:twocents


----------



## Bo B Bunny (Sep 23, 2008)

He's doing a little less harassing but still the bunnies want to eat him.

Thanks for all of the ideas! I'm trying EVERYTHING!


----------



## seniorcats (Sep 23, 2008)

YOur plug ins are on the way! I mailed 2 today. Didn't leave the house yesterday. I hope they do the job.


----------



## Bo B Bunny (Sep 24, 2008)

Thank you so much! The kids are anxious to see if it helps him and if it might help Tank with his opinion of Diesel.... LOL!


----------



## seniorcats (Sep 24, 2008)

Just remember, it takes about 4 weeks to notice a difference. By that time, you will need refills. If it works and you need more plug ins, let me know. The shelter is no longing using theirs as they had to delete some non-essentials from the budget.


----------



## juliew19673 (Sep 24, 2008)

I understand your hell with the "Problem Child" but, amputation of cats "Digits" is just cruel - my city has "Outlawed" this procedure - you understand your cutting off your cats fingers at "YOUR" first joint just to make your life easier? How would yo like to not be able to type as you lost your first knucle? :shock:

I KNOW your not the type to cause "pain" to an animal, but honestly if you can't have cats in your household unless their declawed then don't have cats.

With your problem child kitten - and I have had 2 that were just Evil little devils (cats with ADD or were hyperactive) you just have to "RUN THEM RAGGED" so they can expel their energy.. Make sure they have enought hurdles/boxes/toys to get rid of their energy and to not take it out on another animal.

Best of luck to you - best advice keep the problem child active and away from whatever animal they think they can bully..


----------

