# Opening a roundtable Livestock/meat pen discussion thread.



## GoinBackToCali (Nov 6, 2008)

As the title states, if your going to condemn, or get an attitude, or judge, kindly do not participate.

Being a Breeder of Livestock rabbits that are shown as breeders and meat pens..and also reside in an outside rabbitry.. I am opening this thread to address any and all questions anyone may have concerning the breed.

As my handle suggests, I deal primarily with Californians, but have since started with NZW's as an experiment.

I do not eat nor cull mine by killing them.. so I will discuss how what I do with my culls as well if so asked.

Ask away..


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## LadyOnslaught (Nov 6, 2008)

I have a few questions, I'm not looking to start anything but do not know anything about what I'm asking (hence the questions lol):

Forgive the ignorance but are 'meat rabbits' just rabbits that are bred to eat?

I saw the pictures of your rabbitry...are those just rabbits you show and/or breed? How many do you have and do they always stay in the cages? I've never seen pictures of a rabbitry so this is all new to me.


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## GoinBackToCali (Nov 6, 2008)

Originally, when we got into animals... showing that is, my son was diagnosed as bipolar, adhd, schizo affective disorder, seasonal mood affective disorder as well as a host of other small issues. He was unmanageable and was a sure canidate to be placed in a group home. My cousin suggested we try animals as a means of focus for him. I was reluctant. 

At the time I had just one bunny I had bought at Easter for my youngest son, my elderly NZW I still have, Soo-Kee Roo. We started out with one market swine. I immediately saw a change in my son, so we got another pig. Through the process of visiting the Ag Farm, I noticed my cousin had a huge rabbitry there, and I didn't much care for how he tended his rabbits. I know what those rabbits were for, but I am of the opinion, livestock or no.. ANY animal that is treated well, and happy, does better in the show ring or the show table.

Cousin Eddie had a surplus of bunnies so he talked us into showing for him and splitting the auction proceeds..

Well if you know me.. then you know that I always have to do things to excellence..so I went out and bought my own showstock from one of the best Cali Breeders in the country, Fred Harra. Now I pretty much can't be beat.. if I am on my game that is, which since Jarred died and I got sick, I havn't been.. but it's a new season..lol

Does Eddie eat his rabbits? Yes he does. Do I? No.. we don't.. my kids refuse. I refuse. Pipp actually found me on another site insulting people cause I told them I would never be so poor as to eat my own rabbits..

By definition, the fact that they are shown as FFA/4H meat projects and the pelts and meat are useable, just like cows and goats, defines them as Livestock.

Specifically..Livestock is defined as:Any domesticated animal owned and raised as stock; or pen-raised animals raised for home use or for profit, especially on a farm.

MEAT PENS AND FRYERS 
The meat pen and fryer competition is a demonstration of the breeders' 
ability to produce a market animal of consistent size and quality. 
BREED FOR TYPE! 
Meat rabbits are judged for body type, condition, and uniformity by the 
American Rabbit Breeders Association (ARBA) Standard of Perfection. Their 
type must be meaty, with prime muscle condition. The meat pen should be 
uniform in size, all the same color, and all the same breed. The judges 
will balance the characteristics of type, condition, and uniformity in 
deciding which is the best entry. Some judges will place emphasis on 
uniformity. 
A meat pen is three rabbits, any gender, more than three pounds and less 
than five pounds. A single fryer is a rabbit, any gender, more than three 
pounds and less than five pounds. They must not be older than 70 days. 
White fur is preferred by processors, but is not required in meat pens. New 
Zealand Whites and Californians are the most common meat breed of rabbits.

In subsequent posts.. I will discuss selection, feeding for optimum show quality, posing.. and other things related to showing of meat rabbits..we will also discuss what happens at auction and what I MYSELF do after the auction...


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## GoinBackToCali (Nov 6, 2008)

*LadyOnslaught wrote: *


> I have a few questions, I'm not looking to start anything but do not know anything about what I'm asking (hence the questions lol):
> 
> Forgive the ignorance but are 'meat rabbits' just rabbits that are bred to eat?
> 
> I saw the pictures of your rabbitry...are those just rabbits you show and/or breed? How many do you have and do they always stay in the cages? I've never seen pictures of a rabbitry so this is all new to me.



We don't eat ours.. some do.. we don't.. we just participate in that competition..actually, most people we compete with don't eat their rabbits. It's just been part of competition for so long, it hasn't been renamed to something more politically correct yet..lol.

Those are my show stock.. I do have sanctuary bunnies, rejects from easter and other gift giving occassions. The Cali's tend to like their cages. They do get out and are worked with on a regular basis to make them more docile, but there again, they only seem to like certain people, me, my 2 sons, and Lucas, the boy who helps me. Anybody else they act like feral idiots...


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## polly (Nov 6, 2008)

Our meat rabbits in this country are classed as "fur rabbits" they were bred for meat and for their pelts. We don't show the same as in America and don't have meat pens all the rabbits are shown individually unless its in an u14 weeks category when its mum and her litter. (and that does not seem to be very often!) 

Feed makes a big difference to any breed but especially fur rabbits. they are judged for colour, coat and type (which basically means the meat aspect) 

Some breeders will eat their stock some wouldn't Personally I wouldn't eat my own rabbits but these types of rabbits kept a ot of people alive through the world wars when food was rationed. In fact rabbits even got their own ration cards! (as a random fact)

Good idea for a topic Zin


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## DyemondRabbitry (Nov 6, 2008)

Fred Harra? Lol..yes you really must do excellent at everything then? In PA we don't have alot of excellent Cals. Most of my stock was out of Als Cals- I don't even know if you'd recognize that name in Texas!!! 

Do you have a rabbitry website? I would really like to see some of your Cals. I love their personalities but had to stop showing them because of the "Californian curse"- we get really bad/strange winters and its' hard to keep from getting smut on anything over 6 months.


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## GoinBackToCali (Nov 6, 2008)

I don't sell my cali's normally...so I don't have a website per se....I usually give my culls to other 4-H/FFA kids.. and not to adult breeders, and even then, I require a letter from a group leader or Ag Teacher iffn I don't know you to make sure your not some kid being sent for an adult breeder.

The Cali smut...lol.. thats why during the winter, even though I have an indoor rabbitry, for the first 7 days of life. till they get their good fur in.. all the babies get put in numberedboxes and brought in, with moms having the numbers Sharpied on their ears. Once they have their fur in.. the smut isn't an issue. You just have to keep them from being chilled while their still pinkies.

Alot of the Cali's in the Cali Breed thread are mine...down at the bottom of the homepage.


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## GoinBackToCali (Nov 6, 2008)

Here's a link to some Cali pics of mine..

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=38520&forum_id=21


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## LadyOnslaught (Nov 6, 2008)

*GoinBackToCali wrote: *


> I don't sell my cali's normally...so I don't have a website per se....I usually give my culls to other 4-H/FFA kids.. and not to adult breeders, and even then, I require a letter from a group leader or Ag Teacher iffn I don't know you to make sure your not some kid being sent for an adult breeder.
> 
> The Cali smut...lol.. thats why during the winter, even though I have an indoor rabbitry, for the first 7 days of life. till they get their good fur in.. all the babies get put in numberedboxes and brought in, with moms having the numbers Sharpied on their ears. Once they have their fur in.. the smut isn't an issue. You just have to keep them from being chilled while their still pinkies.
> 
> Alot of the Cali's in the Cali Breed thread are mine...down at the bottom of the homepage.


If you do not sell them then what do you do with them? Are yours then pretty much show rabbits or they specifically bred for meat?


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## Dublinperky (Nov 6, 2008)

I wanted to put this topic on here. It is about meat pens....

http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=36843&forum_id=8&highlight=meat+pen



Aly!


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## GoinBackToCali (Nov 6, 2008)

I breed only what I need...I don't over breed.. we keep the best, the rest get distributed to other 4-H'ers or pet homes.. some just never leave..

Some get auctioned off and people actually want them as pets for grandkids.. and I have hadparents and grandparentscome out and go through my barn and handpick the most docile lovable babies because they wanted something sweet for the kids..

I have NEVER had to deliver meat..

Usually.. for the companies.. it's a huge tax write off, and it makes them feel good about themselves for helping these kids.

Mine are NOT food.. PERIOD.

THat's what grocery stores are for.

Mine are showstock.. and are listed as such on my tax returns.


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## GoinBackToCali (Nov 6, 2008)

Lemmie go BACK over this.. since it doesn't seem to be clear..

We show MEAT PENS.. it doesn't mean we EAT THEM.. what it means is, that classification has been used for so long, it's stuck. Nobody's bothered to change it to something more politically correct like *I spent alot of money on showstock so kiss my fluffy* competition...

It's a competition.. nothing more nothing less.. doesn't mean we all show up with bibs, forks and knives, waiting for the show to be over.

You people have got to seperate the simple age old moniker that has been bestowed upon a competition, from what it actually is.. a simple competition.

Just because it says meat doesnt mean were eating them...


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## Dublinperky (Nov 6, 2008)

I don't know if I want to do meat pens because there is still that .01% I won't get the bunnies back! I couldn't stand to know that I sold the bunnies to someone who would eat them!

Aly!:?


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## GoinBackToCali (Nov 6, 2008)

Wow... to quote myself directly from the other thread that Dublin linked to...

"What that means, essentially is, that while Cali's and NZW's are typically a *meat* breed, we don't breed and show them for that purpose. If you wanted to get technical and name it for what it actually is, it would be something along the lines of *I spent alot of money to perfect my breed standard, ima breed snob, I never been so poor I have to eat my rabbit, but saying *meat* pens just sounds better and takes up less space on the sign*

We buy, raise, breed for a specific perfect specimen, not cause we're hungry. It's a competition, as in who's better than who.. but for lack of better terminology, we still call it *meat* pens.. even though none of us HERE.. IN THESE PARTS... eat rabbits anymore.

I have been doing them for a number of years.. my kids show for 4-H, we show *Meat* Pens, Fryers, Breeders, Best Opposite Sex and Best of Breed. We always go to auction. Do my bunnies get sold? Yes they do. Have I ever had to butcher any of my bunnies.. no I do not.. Why? Because just as the whole competition itself is an arrogance/bragging rights type thing, so is who buys them. Big companys vie for the right to pay a stupid amount for 3 rabbits, to look like philanthropists, and what happens? Out of 6 years of doing 3 shows a year x 2 kids, I have only physically lost 2 sets of bunnies. Were they eaten, nope.. they both wanted them as pets.. so that's where they went. All the rest... ALL of mine... and EVERYBODY elses are ALWAYS donated back.. it's a tax write off for these companys, and they get to feel better about themselves..lol.

The first time your tiny 8 year old stands out there and gets upwards of $3k for 3 rabbits and they give him his rabbits back... yeah yer ok with it..

On the flip.. the reality is.. yes they are *meat* breeds..they are fast growers who are plump and meaty. In todays economy, *meat* is a premium, and I get ALOT of people contacting me about breeding them some rabbits to begin backyard breeding to supplement their groceries..I decline the requests because I am not doing it for the eating, I am doing it for the breed perfection. I realize people are hungry, and rabbits maybe tasty.. but they ain't eatin mine.. ramen noodles are cheap.. getcha some of those..

Some prefer Cali's, some prefer NZW's.. but here in Texas.. this is Cali country, and your going to run into some SERIOUS buyers wantin your bunnies for *meat*."


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## LadyOnslaught (Nov 6, 2008)

*GoinBackToCali wrote: *


> Wow... to quote myself directly from the other thread that Dublin linked to...
> 
> "What that means, essentially is, that while Cali's and NZW's are typically a *meat* breed, we don't breed and show them for that purpose. If you wanted to get technical and name it for what it actually is, it would be something along the lines of *I spent alot of money to perfect my breed standard, ima breed snob, I never been so poor I have to eat my rabbit, but saying *meat* pens just sounds better and takes up less space on the sign*
> 
> ...


Thank you for explaing all of that. I am not familiar with any of it, or the concept. I wasn't in 4-H either so I didn't really know how it worked. I do remember hearing about people buying the livestock and then giving it back somtimes.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 6, 2008)

*Dublinperky wrote: *


> I don't know if I want to do meat pens because there is still that .01% I won't get the bunnies back! I couldn't stand to know that I sold the bunnies to someone who would eat them!
> 
> Aly!:?



You will still get them back when you show them  It's just if you were to put them in auction, then you wouldn't, unless you bought them back yourself. I don't show meat pen, perhaps because I don't have meat rabbits, but my friend used to (Not Karlee  although we both know the girl) The meat pen class is just for three rabbits at a certain age, they go and be shown and see which would be good meat rabbits or they're good to their breed ??(correct me if im wrong, Zin) You still get to take them back home after you show them in the meat class  

Emily


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## GoinBackToCali (Nov 6, 2008)

Yes.. you can ALWAYS show them, get an opinion, and have the option to pull them if they make auction, which in turn puts the person who places behind you in the your place..

Just because your showing meat pens and there is an auction does not mean it's a terminal show for your bunnies.


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## TinysMom (Nov 6, 2008)

I don't willingly breed Calis (except for when Gracie broke into her brother's pen and bred)...and I don't participate in shows about meat pen rabbits, etc. - but I wanted to point out a few things that might help folks understand about the whole meat pen thing. 

Or maybe I just want to type and waste time and space. :biggrin2:

When I was growing up (I'm 48 now) - we did not have rabbits as pets very often. If you went to the pet store and saw a rabbit as a pet - odds are good it was a Florida White or something like that. I haven't checked into the history of the Netherland Dwarfs or the Holland Lops...but I don't remember seeing them around when I was growing up (and I did have rabbits). I believe now that I had either Florida Whites or New Zealand Whites (I would need to find pictures of me with my rabbits to be able to figure out which it was as I don't trust my memory that much). 

It was a big thing when I actually saw a BLACK rabbit in the pet store one time - so "rare" according to anything we'd ever seen (we're talking maybe 1972 or so?) - that my mom even broke down and let me buy it.

I was trying to google about the history of ARBA and came across this on the flemish giant club website I'll cite below:

*1924:* At the Lima, Ohio, Convention was born the American Rabbit and Cavy Breeders Association. The N.F.F.G.R.B. voted to become a part of this organization. This Convention marked the conciliation of the competing factions. Most National Specialty Clubs immediately became part of this organization. Thus was the beginning of the American Rabbit Breeders Association as we know it today. 

http://www.nffgrb.com/History.htm

​So back when the whole rabbit breeding thing started - it was mainly because of the meat rabbits that were being bred. Therefore - from my limited understanding - the basis for judging the rabbits was based upon their characteristics as being bred for meat.

I want to point out (and if I offend folks - I apologize in advance) - that long before rabbits were considered "pets" here in the U.S. - they were livestock. This is what I've been told by others - please feel free to correct me. But we did not see the exotic rabbits (Netherland Dwarfs, Holland Lops, etc) come into the US until later - at least 40 years after ARBA was started.

I just did a bit of research on two of the most common breeds - and here is what I found out...

The Netherland Dwarf breed was first produced in the Netherlands in the early 20th century. Small Polish rabbits were bred with smaller wild rabbits;[1][/sup] after several generations the resulting animal was a very small domestic rabbit available in a wide variety of colors and patterns. Netherland Dwarfs were first imported into the United Kingdom in 1948.[1][/sup] In the 1960s and 1970s the United States imported its first Netherland Dwarf rabbits. The breed was accepted by the American Rabbit Breeders' Association in 1969 using a modification of the British standard.[1][/sup]
Early dwarfs, even into the 1970s and 1980s, had fearful and sometimes aggressive temperaments. This was a result of breeders selecting wild breeding animals for their size. The first dwarf rabbits behaved more like these wild rabbits than domestic animals and were not good pets. However, through generations of selective breeding, the modern Netherland Dwarf has become a gentle, friendly pet rabbit, though it still retains a more energetic disposition than larger breeds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherland_Dwarf


Netherlands come to the US: 
As early as 1965 Netherland Dwarfs were imported to both the US and to Canada, however, they were being used only to improve the Polish breed, or merely as a curiosity, by fanciers to improve the Polish breed. In 1969 Darrell Bramhall met with English fancier Jack Turnbull and began a life long interest in Netherland Dwarfs. Mr. Bramhall did not hear from Mr. Turnbull again until June, when he wrote to him to see how he was progressing with the importation of Dwarfs. Mr. Turnbull replied that he had brought a number of Dwarfs over from England and offered some of them to him. Of course, Mr. Bramhall wanted some of the Dwarfs and began negotiating for several pairs. The first pair he received were Himalayans. Mr Bramhall suggested that they form a specialty club to promote and encourage the breeding and showing of Netherland Dwarfs in the US. He also began work on a standard for dwarfs to be accepted by the ARBA. The English standard formed the basis and a few minor changes were made. The standard was presented to ARBA at the 1969 convention in Calgary Canada. At this show Mr. Turnbull was responsible for exhibiting the first required showing of Dwarfs at this Convention. He showed a pair of Ruby-Eyed Whites, a Black, and a Siamese Sable. There were a total of 6 dwarfs shown by 2 exhibitors. Albert Reurs, a Dutchman residing in Listowel, Ontario, Canada, was the other exhibitor. He had a pair of Ruby-Eyed Whites. At the show, and that the ARBA Board of Directors accepted the proposed Standard of Perfection for the Netherland Dwarf rabbit. With this ruling, the Dwarfs could be shown as a recognized breed at all ARBA shows, however, the exhibitor must provide the presiding judge with a copy of the Standard for Dwarfs. 

http://www.tinytotsrabbitry.com/dwarfs/history.html


and for the Holland lops:


[align=center]*HLRSC History*[/align] In 1979, after the Holland Lop breed was accepted by the ARBA, there was much interest not only in the breed, but also in forming a national club. Aleck Brooks, his father, Buddy, and mother, Barbara, had campaigned three ARBA showings and decided to enlist help in forming a national club. Nan Woost agreed to do the leg work and the nucleus started to form. Nan enlisted the help of ARBA Secretary, Ed Pfeifer and in April of 1980, an organizational meeting was held. The first HLRSC officers were: Aleck Brooks - President, Dave Stumpf - Vice President, Nan Woost - Secretary/Editor, and Buddy Brooks - Treasurer. The first three Directors were Betty Landress, Bill Takacs, and Sue Holcomb. Judge Anthony Howard, from England, was appointed the club's Foreign Correspondent due to his knowledge of the breed in the U.K. and Europe. 
The organizational Board voted on a "club logo" of a Dutch shoe with a Holland Lop in front of it, as well as a club slogan, _*The Hallmark Breed.*_ Club colors were voted on: Royal blue, light blue, and white. 
The first ARBA Convention, for the HLRSC occurred in Milwaukee with 27 Hollands shown by 11 exhibitors. What more fitting judge to do the honors than judge Bram Van Velden of Canada, a Dutchman himself, who picked a solid senior doe, weighing 2 lbs. 12 oz., for Best of Breed. Both BOB and BOS were bred and owned by Aleck Brooks. The BOB doe was in prime coat and beauty. The crowd let out shouts of enthusiasm when she won Best 4 Class at the convention. This was and still is a "first" for a new breed in the history of the ARBA. In less than seven months of organization, the HLRSC had a set record not yet matched by any other breed or specialty club. 
At the first general membership meeting, a date was set for the club's first election: April 5, 1981. Secretary Woost reported that in six months the membership had grown from 25 to 93, with four sanctions being issued the first year. Tom Coatoam was appointed the first Standards Committee Chairman. 

http://www.hlrsc.com/History/hlhistory.html

​Anyway - I share all this mostly-useless information to point out - that when ARBA started - the points they judged rabbits on were basically on their fur and their other "meat" type characteristics (and I don't mean taste).


So when we look at ARBA shows today - I think it is important to remember - that it is the "meat pens" and the "meat rabbits" that started it all - sorta - in a sense. All of the other lovely breeds of rabbits we have now (and the ones still in development) - came later. 

It is really important to note that each breed is judged upon its own characteristics and each standard has various points assigned to parts based upon what is considered "important". For instance - the holland lop has no points assigned to the standard for mane - like the lionhead - because they do not have manes. Lionheads do not have points assigned to them for "crowns" like the holland lops - because they are not judged upon their head structure.


So I'll now close my ramblings and turn this thread back to Zin - who is really an expert at meat pens and what goes on at 4H, etc. etc. etc.


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 6, 2008)

We have Tony and he's a "meat breed" ....... mostly he's a meatloaf or a baloney... 

he's not the kind of meatloaf or baloney that is tastey tho...... well..... his poos tend to be for the dog, but that's not like him..... 

Bo is more of a meat eater breed.... he likes to bite me when he's angry....


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## Dublinperky (Nov 6, 2008)

*BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *


> *Dublinperky wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I don't know if I want to do meat pens because there is still that .01% I won't get the bunnies back! I couldn't stand to know that I sold the bunnies to someone who would eat them!
> ...


I know that I can still put them in shows I am just worried about meat pens although I might do them in future because I don't think anyone around here would actually eat them.... Although the closest bunny breeder I can find near me breeds rabbits for meat!

Aly!


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## pamnock (Nov 7, 2008)

The purpose of meat pens is to breed an animal consistent in meat type for the purpose of consumption. It doesn't servethe purposeof this class to show a pen and pull the entry becausethe exhibitor doesn'tagree ethically with theobjective of the competition. I don't believe this promotes the spirit of good sportsmanship. An exhibitor should clearly understand from the outset that this is a _market_ class.

One recent thread on this topic was pulled. I think that theadministration needs to set a consistent policy on topics that will be allowed. I applaud Zin's efforts to cultivate a civil discussion on this sensitive subject area, and hope that we will be able to draw some distinct lines on what can be deliberated on this forum.

Pam


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 7, 2008)

I pulled the thread you mention for editing. I didn't think I should edit it because I am not actually a show moderator. I did see that one particular comment was bluntly over the line of what RO is generally accepting of. No biggy really just needed to be fixed. I don't know if anyone has fixed that thread or not.

Now, in relation to this topic...... I do not feel I could raise meat pen show bunnies. However, it doesn't make me not want to know how to raise a meat rabbit TYPE for show...... ie Tony. 

Pamnock has answered many questions for me about him and how he would be judged, etc. 

It IS a part of showing, but we need to be tactful in the discussion of it. That's the guidelines I would guess. :dunno


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## pamnock (Nov 7, 2008)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> Now, in relation to this topic...... I do not feel I could raise meat pen show bunnies. However, it doesn't make me not want to know how to raise a meat rabbit TYPE for show...... ie Tony.



The opportunity exists to raise commercial type rabbits for show in their respective breed classes. 

The purpose of the meat classes are based more specifically on theintent of consumption: fryer, roaster, stewer, meat pen.

I would encourage youth who do not want their project sent to market to show in breed class, rather than to enter and withdraw from the market classes. The purpose of the market classes is to market a product. If an exhibitor is not interested in marketing their project, they should enter breed class.

Pam


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 7, 2008)

See, at our county show, they actually tell you where you will show. ARBA rules - I see where that would be appropriate.


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## pamnock (Nov 7, 2008)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> See, at our county show, they actually tell you where you will show. ARBA rules - I see where that would be appropriate.



If market class is a country requirement, then the exhibitor needs to be fully aware of the requirements and purpose of the competition before entering. 

It is unfair to other exhibitors to deny them the excitement of witnessing their wins in person,as opposedto later finding out through the grapevine that they placed higher due to other exhibitors withdrawing after the judging.

Pam


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## DyemondRabbitry (Nov 7, 2008)

I resent a post to one of the mods about this- has it been sent to theothers yet? I don't want to post any controversial matter....


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## GoinBackToCali (Nov 7, 2008)

See, here.. you show meat pens and you either pull them or you don't. Meaning the show is classified as terminal or not. In reality the onlyshow thats ever really terminal is the market swine..once they enter the fair grounds.. the only way they leave, is on a meat truck.. everything else you have the option of taking home.

So to that end.. you either show your meat pen and get an opinion, pull em and go home, or you leave em and go to auction.

A show we recently participated in did things differently for the first time ever, and it took forever. He judged all the rabbits, placed them all accordingly ribboned em..then sifted those were not eligible for auction due to the fact that they did not want to be placed in auction, and replaced them in sale order and actually ribboned them that way as well. So you pretty much knew where you stood either way. Was very informative, and the whole show literally took almost 4 hours for him to go thru 32 pens and place and sift them twice, then tell each exhibitor why he placed them where.

The only shows that have Best Of Breed and Best Opposite Sex and Fryer, Stewer, Roaster, and Meat Pen are the Big shows like Houston and Dallas and San Antonio.. the Semi Big Shows like Beaumont just have Best of Breed and Best Opposite Sex and Meat Pen. The small county shows, our *bread and butter* as their known, you show a meat pen, and thats it..

So that's how it works in our neck of the woods..not like Ms. Pam says.. which personally, I agree with how normal shows work.. not our redneck methodology, but yanno.. can't fight the redneck mafia..lol.


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## GoinBackToCali (Nov 7, 2008)

Cross post from the other thread on show Cali nutrition..

So in these parts, this IS the feed of choice for show Cali's, basically, if your NOT feeding this, your not even considered a contender..












1/4 cup crimped oats/barley 50/50 conditioning mix with black oil sunflower seeds

(My conditioning mix is contains 50% crimped oats + 50% crimped barley + 7-10 sunflower seeds per cup. however, you start off feeding 1/4 cup for 4 bunnies then over 7 days work up to 1/4 a cup each.)

1 tablespoon Doc's Rabbit Enhancer

(1 tablespoon for 4 buns then over a week work up to a tablespoon each)

Some people give a teaspoon of pure calf manna to their buns, I do not becausethe Petrus 700B comes with Calf Manna.

Mine also get a 4 way acid pack in their water, which is slam full of vitamins and electrolytes. It is essential for babies and nursing mothers, I wouldn't be without it.

Something else, which I don't actually know if this applies to other breeds, and I don't actually know if it is true, but what I do know, is at the show table, all of my Cali's noses and ear marking's are almost pitch black. They are given a carrot every day. I am told the beta carotene does this. Like I said, I don't know if it is true. But I do know, I can pick my buns out from every one else's, by site alone, not by ear tags, so it is a theory I am not willing to disprove.

For some of my buns who are a bit on the picky side, they get the crimped oats/barley/sunflower mixture with the addition of wheat germ oil and cheerios. BUT a dab will do ya on the oil... you can not only blow there coats, you can give em the bunny runs...and the Cheerio's can slap on weight, they are usually only reserved for underweight bun's who need to make weight.


Actually, as far as the fur goes, my buns are notorious for their sleek silky fur and stellar coloring.. never had a *blowout* as we call them..or a "shedding/molt" problem.

The judges always comment on my buns fur, and actually go on and on. I can toot my own horn and say if you mixed mine in with a bunch of others.. I can still pick mine out by sight alone..


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