# Dewlap (Graphic Photos)



## Ivory (Oct 1, 2007)

Has anyone here ever had a doe with a dewlap that was too large, but otherwise she was in good health? Have anyone ever experienced a rabbit dewlap reduction on said rabbits?

I know some rabbits get pretty big dewlaps, but the one I'm fostering at the moment has trouble grooming, so we're performing a reduction on her dewlap. I was just curious if anyone has also experienced this.


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 1, 2007)

OMGosh - I know it's serious, but I can't help but see the joke in the big chested bunny needing a reduction! Sorry. 

Honestly, that's something I've heard of but never have heard of the reduction surgery. Is it worth the surgery? I mean - rabbits have a hard time healing and stuff anyhow don't they?

I think I've always heard that you just have to make sure it's kept clean and dry for them.


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## Ivory (Oct 1, 2007)

The problem is if they can't perform cecotrophy, they become depressed. They become frustrated and unhappy.

It's not any different than removing just regular skin- the surgery itself isn't bad. Actually the number of stitches are small considering.

Not to mention...chronic moist dermatitis isn't as easy to constantly be treated as you'd think.

I'm not worried about Pellette's surgery so much because he's done it before, I was just curious if anyone else has ever had it done.


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 1, 2007)

Ohhhh - that makes sense.

I'm glad she will be ok. I've just always heard - if you don't have to cut - don't cut on bunnies.

Cecals makes sense too tho.... 

do we have a photo of the enormous dewlap? :biggrin2:


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## tundrakatiebean (Oct 1, 2007)

Could we get before and after photos? I'm way curious about this...


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 1, 2007)

Could be a good thing to reference in our medical stuff since it's not common apparently!

You never know who it might help.


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## Ivory (Oct 1, 2007)

Actually I've been trying to get a decent picture of Pellette's dewlap. It's huge, and it's in layers. Thing is, she isn't overweight at all. It's really odd, and it's weird to take a picture of. The best way of seeing it is if she's standing up or laying down, but I can't get a pic of her standing....or laying down.

Before she actually gets the surgery, we're obviously going to conduct a thorough search on her to make sure that it isn't something else. Pre-op bloodwork came back normal. I think we're probably going to take X-rays of it. Really...it's huge. But it's not so much that it's huge, so much as she can hardly groom herself. She can't reach her bottom. She does have rolls of skin on the rest of her body, too, but they aren't preventing her from grooming/being happy/participating in normal rabbit behaviors.












Here is the best I got today. I've seen some huge dewlaps, particularly in Rex mixes like Pellette (or at least she looks like a Rex mix) but never one as huge as hers. And I've seen a lot. The only bigger one I've seen was in a rabbit I had named Merry, who was a Mini-Rex that weighed about eleven pounds. She was just enormous all around.


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## Maureen Las (Oct 1, 2007)

are you sure that thats a dewlap and not a growth? Its not shaped like a normal dewlap..its all in one spot.


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## Ivory (Oct 1, 2007)

And I just had the camera focused on her and everything and she just HAD to move from the perfect position to see it! *grumble*

Here's another from a while back...






I'll also mention that she's quite a young rabbit, an adult, but a young adult, a little over a year.


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## Ivory (Oct 1, 2007)

That's exactly why we're taking X-rays. When palpated it feels like a normal dewlap, albeit huge.


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## Maureen Las (Oct 1, 2007)

Sorry..I went ahead and posted before I read your whole post.

That certainly is interesting. I hope that it"s a dewlap and not a growth.


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## Ivory (Oct 1, 2007)

Me too.


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## lagadvocate (Oct 2, 2007)

Hi, this reminded me of the bun on the cover of The House Rabbit Handbook by Marinell Harriman (also that bun's owner, I think but not sure). I believe the bun's name was Herman (although Ithink it was a doe despite the name, my memory is fuzzy it's been a while since I read it).


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## AngelnSnuffy (Oct 2, 2007)

Lagadvocate-I'm pretty sure thatis Herman on the cover. I have the handbook.

Nice post.


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## lagadvocate (Oct 2, 2007)

Thanks AngelnSnuffy! That was one of the very first bun books I read when I got my first bun back in the day.

I thought Herman was awesome!


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## Ivory (Oct 2, 2007)

Pellette's dewlap was removed without problems. She hasn't woken up yet, however. But she seems to be doing okay.


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 2, 2007)

Oh good! Was it just dewlap then? 

That little dear will be able to see her own front feet again!


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## naturestee (Oct 2, 2007)

Is she awake and ok now?

I have heard of another rabbit that needed her dewlap removed so she could groom herself. This was on the Rabbits United forum (on the Rabbit Rehome website), and the bun had recently been turned in to a rescue. 

Pellette's dewlap reminds me of a Palomino bun I helped transport named Tank. Hers was big and lopsided too, and she also developed an abscess in it but that healed quickly.


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## Maureen Las (Oct 2, 2007)

I'm glad that she's OK and that it was just "dewlap"

Never heard of dewlap reduction surgery before but I learn something everyday


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## Ivory (Oct 2, 2007)

Pellette's was large and lopsided, actually most of it was on the left side, but it was just a big flap of skin.

I can't say that she seems happier now because she's actually kind of ticked off and obviously not feeling well from her spay. (The spay was a bit of an issue. She suffered from chronic false pregnancies and also had pyometra. She's on a lot of antibiotics.) She's still waking up. However, once her throat heals and her hair grows back (the area was shaved) she'll be okay. We'll probably have to sedate her to take the stitches in her neck out.

Buut, that being said, she's doing moderately well.


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 2, 2007)

Sweet girl had a rough day!


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## Ivory (Oct 2, 2007)

Yeah, poor thing did. But it was definitely for her good.


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 2, 2007)

Yes, as soon as she feels better - she'll feel better LOL!

Pictures and updates when you can


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## Ivory (Oct 2, 2007)

Well here's a picture of Dad stitching up the incision after removing the dewlap.

I'll just link since I don't know how to edit the title and put that it has graphic pictures.

http://img478.imageshack.us/img478/8172/dsc00473sq1.jpg


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## Ivory (Oct 2, 2007)

Here she is tonight, feeling pretty weird and still very groggy, but she's eating!


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 3, 2007)

Awww poor baby doesn't feel good 

Do you know when they normally get a dewlap? Heidi actually has a looseness there already - not really a dewlap but definitely can tell she's gonna have one.


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## JadeIcing (Oct 3, 2007)

Changed the titlefor you. Intresting pictures.


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## Pipp (Oct 3, 2007)

*naturestee wrote: *


> Pellette's dewlap reminds me of a Palomino bun I helped transport named Tank. Hers was big and lopsided too, and she also developed an abscess in it but that healed quickly.



Hmmm... and Tank died not long after during a spay. Never did hear exactly why. It would be interesting (albeit unlikely) if there was a correlation. 

sas :?


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Oct 3, 2007)

OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hearts::hearts::hearts::hearts::hearts::hearts::hearts::hearts::cry2:big kiss: looks like it hurts, hope your baby feels better soon.


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## TreasuredFriend (Oct 3, 2007)

Kareena, our sanctuary bun, had a sizeable dew lap, immediately after rescue. It shrank considerably after she was spayed. I've heard that on females that will happen, but not sure if it's a generalization or case specific and depending on age...

I hope she'll be fine and gets lots of TLC.


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## Ivory (Oct 3, 2007)

*Pipp wrote: *


> *naturestee wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Pellette's dewlap reminds me of a Palomino bun I helped transport named Tank. Hers was big and lopsided too, and she also developed an abscess in it but that healed quickly.
> ...


Not encouraging...

Pellette is doing okay, but she is still awfully weak from it. She lost more blood than a typical spay during the surgery (chronic false pregnancies will do that). I admit that I'm worried about her. I was thinking of possibly adding unflavored Pedialyte to her drink, just for a few days.

That being said...all the spots she couldn't groom before, she can't seem to get enough of now...although her neck wound is pretty stiff she seems to be doing okay. But she's still a little weak. I admit I'm a little worried for about the next five or so days. There isn't much reason to be, but I feel very bad for her. Having your body constantly acting like it's pregnant is bad. She's lucky her pyometra wasn't worse.

Emily


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## naturestee (Oct 3, 2007)

Actually, Tank died _during_ the spay. What I was told was that she "took a bleeder" which I take to mean the vet didn't watch what he was doing and hit an artery.:?

Before that she had been healthy, and the owner had xrays done because of suspected damage to her shoulder, and the xrays showed nothing unusual although I don't know if they did the whole body or not. And no shoulder damage- she just reacted badly to people touching her on her shoulders because of previous rough handling.
*
Pipp wrote: *


> *naturestee wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Pellette's dewlap reminds me of a Palomino bun I helped transport named Tank. Hers was big and lopsided too, and she also developed an abscess in it but that healed quickly.
> ...


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## slavetoabunny (Oct 3, 2007)

Do you think there is any correlation between the size of the dewlap and when they were spayed? I had Sparky and Scooter spayed at 4 and 3 months, respectively; and they both have tiny dewlaps.


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 3, 2007)

That sweet girl wants to get all clean and pretty for when she feels better from her *chest* reduction!

I would add that pedialyte. Could you give her just a bit of nutrical? Just to give her some energy?


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## naturestee (Oct 3, 2007)

Emily, I would add the Pedialyte. Actually, if you want her to drink more fluids you can mix flavored Pedialyte with water and put it in a second bowl. The flavored stuff really has only a small amount of fruit sugars, not enough to cause stomach upset especially if you dilute it. But it does taste yummy!

I agree that a bit of NutriCal might help too. It gives some calories plus B vitamins for energy.

I bet all those spots she couldn't reach before itch from not being groomed. It must feel really good to finally reach them!

Slavetoabunny, I thought mini rexes didn't normally have big dewlaps. Most of the adult females I've seen at shows and on breeder websites have fairly small ones.


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 3, 2007)

Oh yeah! I bet those places do itch! Bo gets all wiggly, licky, wide eyes when I get a spot he can't manage well (just above his tail!)He tries to lick where I am and he ends up licking me! LOL!

Mini-rex boys don't get dewlaps - or just very little thin things. Bo has a fullness there, but nothing else.


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## m.e. (Oct 3, 2007)

ray:I hope Pellette is feeling better soon.*

Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> Mini-rex boys don't get dewlaps - or just very little thin things. *Bo has a fullness there, but nothing else.*



That's what Rex has - it's like a chest pad


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 3, 2007)

Yeah, he gets big tufts of hair there when he's molting and fights me about plucking them! :X

and he won't let me rub there - it looks/feels soft.


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## Ivory (Oct 3, 2007)

I've added the Pedialyte to her water. She doesn't seem to notice any difference and is drinking well. I'll see if she'll take some Nutri-Cal. Zorro hated the stuff.

How about a little bit of pumpkin or some kind of related gourd? It's easy to digest, she should be okay with it. I won't feed her too much but I think it would be good for some easy food.

She's eating her hay...she loves hay! She's eating her timothy-only pellets and her regular pellets as well.

She's in confined quarters for the next three or four days so I can't let her into her pen, although all she does is sit around and eat grass anyways .

All this being said she seems happy to see me whenever I come out. She's a really sweet rabbit. I'll get some pictures in a little bit!


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## Maureen Las (Oct 3, 2007)

Wow ..thats an amazing surgical procedure.!!


I'm sure glad that she's eating and drinking..very good sign. 

She does look sore..poor girl


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## Ivory (Oct 3, 2007)

It's actually no different than any other kind of skin removal. But yes, she is so happy that she can groom her sides and butt and all that....Her fur already looks better. I didn't realize how shabby it was from not grooming (we can brush them, but they do they best job).


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 4, 2007)

Sounds like she's improving daily! I'm glad she is eating and drinking.

I always put the nutrical on their foot. They have to lick it off and hate it. Pumpkin is good for her - in a little amount. I give Clover some as a treat - maybe 1/2 tsp.


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## tonyshuman (Oct 4, 2007)

> Do you think there is any correlation between the size of the dewlap and when they were spayed? I had Sparky and Scooter spayed at 4 and 3 months, respectively; and they both have tiny dewlaps.


From a biological perspective, this totally makes sense. Since only females get the dewlap, its growth must be related to the amount of female hormones circulating in the blood, because the only thing physiologically different between males and females is the types of circulating hormones. More female hormones=more dewlap. So removing the uterus and ovaries (i assume that's what they do during a spay?) would cut off the source of hormones, so the dewlaps would be smaller. I'm sure there are other factors in dewlap size, but because of the gender/hormone relationship, age of spay is likely to contribute a lot.

Sorry if that was too much science for you

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## Wabbitdad12 (Oct 4, 2007)

I have two Flemish Does who have dewlaps, but the dewlaps are evenly spread across their chests. My Flemish buck has a small one, but its not a DQ, as it is a trait of the breed.

To think some bunnies actually pay for dewlap augmentation! Just kidding.

I never had heard that it could be a problem for a rabbit. I have been altering the diet of a couple of mine because they developed small ones that DQ'd them for showing.

I am curious, how much did it cost to get a dewlap reduction? Just in case I can't get theirdewlaps reduced by the spring shows.

I hope she is o.k. and getting back to her old self. :bunnynurse:


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## naturestee (Oct 4, 2007)

Such a sweet girl! Is she feeling better today?

Wabbitdad12, surgical corrections are not allowed for show animals. The idea is to judge them on their genetic potential, which is helped by proper care and diet. And besides, it looks like an awfully big surgery to do for just cosmetic reasons. In this case it was necessary because it was causing a big impact on her health. Rabbits that can't groom themselves are susceptible to a lot of other problems, including fly strike.


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## Ivory (Oct 4, 2007)

Wabbitdad12, the surgery didn't cost me anything.  My dad did the surgery (vet, lol) and he does work for the rescue that I volunteer for, so this was a voluntary service.

But for "any other Joe Blow who wants it" (as he put it) it would cost about $150.


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 4, 2007)

Hey! How's she doing tonight?


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## Ivory (Oct 4, 2007)

Naturestee, Pellette is doing FANTASTIC. I can't let her out for exercise (Dad wants enforced confinment because of her incision- he had to enlarge it more than typical because her uterus was stuck to her cecum and colon..part of pyometra...) so she's confined until Saturday or Sunday. But she is SUCH a sweet bunny. And she's so hygenic now!


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## Wabbitdad12 (Oct 5, 2007)

*naturestee wrote: *


> Such a sweet girl! Is she feeling better today?
> 
> Wabbitdad12, surgical corrections are not allowed for show animals. The idea is to judge them on their genetic potential, which is helped by proper care and diet. And besides, it looks like an awfully big surgery to do for just cosmetic reasons. In this case it was necessary because it was causing a big impact on her health. Rabbits that can't groom themselves are susceptible to a lot of other problems, including fly strike.


I knew that!:biggrin2: I have no idea what I was thinking when I responded. I guess it was my insomniataking over logical reasoning and if that doesn't work Hey Iam a guy! 

By the way, *I NOW HAVE 19 BUNNIES!,* a black Flemish doe we bought Sept 15th at a show was PREGNANT! I went into our bunny room to put one a rabbit back into her cage and I saw something about the size of a mouse. My first thought was how did a mouse get into Sweetie's cage, then I noticed it was a kit!


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## Phinnsmommy (Oct 5, 2007)

Wabbitdad12 wrote:


> *naturestee wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Such a sweet girl!Â  Is she feeling better today?
> ...



Omg!! Wabbitdad, are you going to keep the baby(ies) ??


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## Wabbitdad12 (Oct 5, 2007)

I think we'll keep one.


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## solebomber (Oct 5, 2007)

Wow, I am glad she's doing well- but WOW I have never heard of dewlap removal and I have had many large breed rabbits for years and years. Was the surgery the only thing the vet could come up with. Seems slightly cruel to me - but then again I don't know the priors on her situation to make that judgement. But the idea of removing a otherwise healthy animals dewlap just doesn't make sense to me.


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## RunnyBabbitRabbitry (Oct 5, 2007)

So happy to hear she is doing well and hope she will have a full and healthy recovery. I must say that I have never heard of having a dewlap removed just because of it's size. I mean if the rabbit is healthy why risk it's life with a surgery and put it through pain. I understand if it was a life or death thing or if she was sick but if not then I don't understand it. Good Luck.


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## BlueGiants (Oct 5, 2007)

Some breeds are disqualified from showing if they carry any dewlap... Netherland dwarfs, Polish, Tans, etc. And even in breeds that allow dewlaps, the standard calls for a balanced appearance with body type and size. Some rabbits (Does) do develop huge pendulous dewlaps.

Too large a dewlap (as mentioned here) will prevent proper grooming and cleaning. So removing a huge dewlap can be a matter of allowing a rabbit a normal life.

As mentioned, the rabbit also had pyometria (uterine infection), so it was all dealt with under one surgery.


I wish her a speedy recovery!


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## Pipp (Oct 5, 2007)

Pipp* wrote: *


> naturestee* wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Pellette's dewlap reminds me of a Palomino bun I helped transport named Tank. Hers was big and lopsided too, and she also developed an abscess in it but that healed quickly.
> ...



There was a comma missing here... I meant Tank died not long after the transport, during a spay, as Angela noted. 

I'm stillwondering if she had a compromised uterus and the enlarged dewlap was an indication. We'll probably neverknow,but I find it curious. 

sas :?


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## Ivory (Oct 5, 2007)

*solebomber wrote: *


> Wow, I am glad she's doing well- but WOW I have never heard of dewlap removal and I have had many large breed rabbits for years and years. Was the surgery the only thing the vet could come up with. Seems slightly cruel to me - but then again I don't know the priors on her situation to make that judgement. But the idea of removing a otherwise healthy animals dewlap just doesn't make sense to me.


He didn't come up with it, _I_ came up with it after reading about the process in a textbook. Pellette was a great candidate for the surgery. He opted to do it after I presented her and her case to him. He'd done it before.

She also wasn't exactly an "otherwise healthy" animal.

It's no crueler than spaying and it's considerably less invasive.

That being said the incisions are clean and dry, and I may be able to let her out for a little exercise on Saturday in her outside pen. Her neck is a little stiff, but she's taking it very well.

I think she'd like to get out of her cage. I think she'll also be happy once she's off of injections. I pulled the syringe out yesterday and she was all like, "OHMYGOD NOT AGAIN!" Poor baby.

Does anyone else have a rabbit that hums while they groom? Because she _hums_, she's so freaking happy to be grooming herself. It's hilarious. And whenever she sees me, she starts making this snuffy noise and these little vocal noises, and coming up to see me. And it's so easy to check her neck incision, because she lifts her head up for petting.


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 5, 2007)

It's like she's singing in the shower!!!! LOL! _"la la la I'm grooming myself.... where I couldn't before.... the diet must have worked....... "_ :singing:

How cute is that?! 

Ivory, you are going to be a good vet one day - just like your dad.The comfort and care and quality of life of an animal is where your heart is - and that is awesome!


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## tonyshuman (Oct 5, 2007)

that's so cute! i'm glad your bun is so happy now. she seems like a real joy!
and i totally agree that the dewlap surgery was a good idea for her, and carrying it out in conjunction with the spay was a great idea.
yay for you and pellette!
best wishes for a speedy recovery....


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## Ivory (Oct 9, 2007)

Just to let everyone know, Pellette's stitches are coming out either tomorrow or Thursday.

She's doing fantastically and enjoying grooming herself, etc.

I think she'll be glad to be able to go back on the grass.


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 9, 2007)

Wonderful. Please give us a couple of photos before you take her back to the rescue! 

Is her hair coming in some?


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## Ivory (Oct 9, 2007)

It is a little, but it's been only about a week since it was shaved, and rabbit hair can grow pretty slowly....but she wasn't shaved bald, there was some fuzz left on.

I will take some new pics later today. She's allowed in the outside pen so long as she doesn't act too crazy (which she normally doesn't).

She will probably get her stitches out tomorrow. She chewed one of her spay stitches out already. :? They're itching her like crazy.


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 9, 2007)

Oh man! I feel for her! I hate stitches!

Bo molts and his hair takes FOREVER to come back. I posted a couple of pics in the disapproving thread..... you can see his forehead is molting and he gets bald spots. 

I guess in the long run it's better so you can kind of keep a close look at an incision.


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## Ivory (Oct 9, 2007)

Here's Pellette.


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 9, 2007)

She looks really good and really happy and really FAST! lol.

Her scar isn't all that bad either from what I can tell.


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## Ivory (Oct 9, 2007)

It really isn't. It'll look even better after we have the stitches out tomorrow!

In other news, I'm getting two new buns tomorrow for fostering from the shelter. I'll post in another thread.


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 9, 2007)

NEW BUNNERS!!! WOOHOO!

Be sure to give Pellett an extra kiss from me when she does go back to the shelter. I'll miss her on here!


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## Ivory (Oct 9, 2007)

I'll miss her too! She's been my favorite so far. She's such a good bun! I hope she gets adopted out to a wonderful family...she deserves it....

I'm going to have five rabbits in the house/on the property. I think I will keep these two in the garage for now....

But I still know nothing about them, but the anticipation is killing me.


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## juicyjuicee (Oct 14, 2007)

Do only the females have a dewlaps?

Does it actually serve a purpose?


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## jam224 (Oct 15, 2007)

*slavetoabunny wrote: *


> Do you think there is any correlation between the size of the dewlap and when they were spayed? I had Sparky and Scooter spayed at 4 and 3 months, respectively; and they both have tiny dewlaps.


That's a really good theory, Patti. Fortunately, Lily has a small dewlap, even though she wasn't spayed until she was nearly two years old:





Any new pictures of Pellette?


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## Ivory (Oct 15, 2007)

Nope, Pellette is back at the main rescue building, so I don't have any more pictures than the ones I've put up. BUT she is doing very well. 

I don't think that Pellette's dewlap would have gotten much smaller after the spay, but it may have. I think it was just rather like a growth- you have to remove it to make it smaller. But that is irrevalent- what was more important was getting it out of the way so she could be comfortable *now*.

The stitches came out last week and the woudn is healing well. Doesn't even have a scab anymore.


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 15, 2007)

If I had a place big enough, Pellette would be mine! I just fell in love with that little girl!


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## Ivory (Oct 15, 2007)

I know, she's the sweetest rabbit...she'll make a good house rabbit. Needs to work on her potty training, but other than that, she's great.


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