# My betta fish



## Sweetie (May 21, 2011)

Hi there! I know many of you know that I have fish and usually I know what to do with treating them for certain diseases. I have a doubletail betta fish that is sick. I had him a little over a month so I cannot return him to the petstore and get a refund. Here is what I have done so far:

I have done a complete water change 

Dosed him with bettafix, I don't think that it is working but it is the first dose.

I am keeping an eye on him but he looks like he is going to die on me

I gave him a piece of pea thinking that he was constipated

So today he has been swimming erractically, in circles, like he is chasing his tail, actually more like spinning around. He isn't swimming into things. He is in a one gallon fish tank. I am not sure what is going on with him. I really don't want him to die on me.

If anyone knows about betta fish and their diseases please help me. I have looked online and I am coming up with possible swim bladder, but I am not sure if that is it. Please help!!!!!


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## Watermelons (May 21, 2011)

Hard to tell about what he has without actually seeing the fish. 

What temps do you keep his water at?
Are you using aquarium salt?
How are you treating his water?
Are you doing 100% water changes?
How often?
What are you feeding him? and how much?
Is there any kind of filtration in his tank?
Define "looks sick"... Does he look fuzzy? are his scales standing on end? is he bloated? is he covered in spots? does he have slime growing on him?

its hard to pick out a healthy betta from a pet store and often they dont last too long when you dont get the cream of the crop.


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## Sweetie (May 21, 2011)

*Watermelons wrote: *


> Hard to tell about what he has without actually seeing the fish.
> 
> What temps do you keep his water at?
> Are you using aquarium salt?
> ...


The temp of the water is room temperature. I am not using apuarium salt. The treatment says 1/2 teaspoon to a gallon of water for seven days. Yes I do 100% water change. I do the water change when the tank is dirty; how often should I do a water change? I am feeding Hikari Bio-Gold pellets, just 6 pellets a day. There is no filtration in the tank. He isn't bloated, doesn't have spots, his scales are not standing on end, doesn't look like he has any slime growing on him, he doesn't look fuzzy. I flash a flashlight on his body to see if he has velvet and he doesn't look like he has velvet. Right now he is stationary at the top. I use stress coat and betta conditioner toget the bad stuff out of the water.


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## Nancy McClelland (May 21, 2011)

My question is "what is in your water". They changed the treatment chemicals on us and didn't put it in the paper for two weeks. We did everything we could think of and still lost all of our fish and it sounds very similar.


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## degrassi (May 21, 2011)

You should be changing the water every couple days, or even daily. You are also feeding too much. Cut it down to 2-3 pellets. Food=faster your water gets polluted. A fish doesn't need much food to live, just a couple pellets a day, or even every other day. 

I wouldn't bother adding bettafix.Its one more thing to stress your fish and I don't like adding things if you aren't 100% sure on the problem. Just do a water change every day to keep the water as clean as possible. Clean water is the best medicine. Make sure you are using a water conditioner that is appropriate for your area. Like my city uses Chloramines so I need to make sure it gets rid of them, not just chlorine. 

Good luck


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## tamsin (May 21, 2011)

No filter, how big is the tank? I guess asking if you cycled the tank before putting him in (used ammonia to grow the filter bacteria that clean the water) is pointless if you have no filter for the bacteria to live in.

Don't do 100% water changes, 50% maximum, otherwise you are making massive changes to his environment that fish have trouble adapting too. It's better to do small frequent changes that occasional massive ones.

When you change the water are you using a dechlorinator to remove the chlorine that water companies add and which is toxic to fish?

Have you tested your water for ammonia, nitrates etc. ? If you don't have the test kits for this yourself try taking your water to your local fish shop, they should be able to test it for you.

I'm guessing that ammonia from the fish waste is building up in the tank, making him unable to breath. You then do a massive water change with removes the ammonia (presuming of course that the tap water your using is ammonia free and it may not be) which resets the water parameters giving him a second shock. The constant cycle of shock and bad water is making him ill.

I'd suggest you stop feeding completely, get a filter asap, test your tap water to make sure it is safe to use for changes, then start doing 30-40% water changes daily until your filter can cope with the waste. Ideally seed the filter with bacteria from someones established filter so kick start it.

Even then it maybe too late. If his gills and organs are already damaged then no medicines is going to fix it.


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## Watermelons (May 21, 2011)

To add to what the others have already answered.
Please use aquarium salt. Just follow the directions on the box, its super cheap (dont use table salt, that has iodine) and helps fish keep up their natural slime coating, as well as helping to protect them from illness, all tropical water has a bit of salt in it (this should be used for all your fish)

Betta fish, despite what everyone things, need warmth, and do much better in a tropical fish environment, so a slightly warmer area of the house, or even adding a light to help warm the water up because usually room temp just isnt warm enough for them.

Water changes every few days, and only 50% at a time!!!
Only add water conditioner to the water BEFORE you mix it in, to ride the water of chlorine and chloramine etc, mix it into the new water which should be the same temp as his current water before you add it to his tank. (check the bottle, some conditioners only get rid of chlorine)
He should have something filtering the water, nothing thats giving a strong current, but in the wild bettas are able to jump from spot to spot, they cant do that in captivity and honestly Bettas do much better when they are set up like your normal tropical fish.

Salt and standard water conditioner are really all you should be using in his water. You can also use a product called "cycle" which adds the good bacteria into the water which helps with your ammonia, nitrate, nitrite cycles to keep everything healthy. But typically this good bacteria likes to live in the bio cubes in filters, in the spongets, and in gravel, but if your gravel is nasty... and you need to rinse the sponges out in already used fish water so youre not losing all that good bacteria. Products like Bettafix or waste b gone/waste removal actually spike the ammonia levels in the tank and do way more damage then good. But remember, salt is good, Good old standard $2 a box, aquarium salt.

And yes you are feeding too much as degrassi said, depending on how large he is I would top out at 4-5 pellets for a large, very active betta. But watch how much they eat and how fast, if their not eating it all right away, its too much.

This may sound mean and I apologize but he probably doesn't have much of a chance if he is as ill youre coming accross. But please use our tips for your other fish/any future bettas.


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## Sweetie (May 21, 2011)

*Nancy McClelland wrote: *


> My question is "what is in your water". They changed the treatment chemicals on us and didn't put it in the paper for two weeks. We did everything we could think of and still lost all of our fish and it sounds very similar.


I am not sure what is in my water, probably the standard that is in water I guess. It very well could be that, but I am not sure. I will ask management next time I go up to theoffice.


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## Sweetie (May 21, 2011)

*degrassi wrote: *


> You should be changing the water every couple days, or even daily. You are also feeding too much. Cut it down to 2-3 pellets. Food=faster your water gets polluted. A fish doesn't need much food to live, just a couple pellets a day, or even every other day.
> 
> I wouldn't bother adding bettafix.Its one more thing to stress your fish and I don't like adding things if you aren't 100% sure on the problem. Just do a water change every day to keep the water as clean as possible. Clean water is the best medicine. Make sure you are using a water conditioner that is appropriate for your area. Like my city uses Chloramines so I need to make sure it gets rid of them, not just chlorine.
> 
> Good luck


Thank you! My doubletail betta actually eats his pellets within a minute or so, so I don't think that the water is getting polluted. The water looks very clear every day. Whenever I do water changes I always use stress coat and/or water conditioner that is right for the fish tanks that I have.


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## Sweetie (May 21, 2011)

*tamsin wrote: *


> No filter, how big is the tank? I guess asking if you cycled the tank before putting him in (used ammonia to grow the filter bacteria that clean the water) is pointless if you have no filter for the bacteria to live in.
> 
> Don't do 100% water changes, 50% maximum, otherwise you are making massive changes to his environment that fish have trouble adapting too. It's better to do small frequent changes that occasional massive ones.
> 
> ...



The fish tank that my doubletail betta is in is a one gallon fish tank. I am using water conditioner and/or stress coat when I change the water. I will be doing water changes every few days or so, probably every week.

I do have another betta, he is in a separate one gallon fish tank with no filter and he is doing wonderfully.


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## tamsin (May 21, 2011)

You need to be careful adding salt to everything, not all fish live in water that would have it. Some softwater fish live in water that would have virtually no solids like salt dissolved in it at all. Adding salt to their water could stress them rather than fix them.

The other issue with salt is it doesn't evaporate. So you add salt, the water evaporates leaving the salt behind and then you add more water & salt at the next water change and gradually over time the salt level increases until it's harmful.


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## tamsin (May 21, 2011)

> Thank you! My doubletail betta actually eats his pellets within a minute or so, so I don't think that the water is getting polluted. The water looks very clear every day. Whenever I do water changes I always use stress coat and/or water conditioner that is right for the fish tanks that I have.


Food goes into your Betta's mouth and out the other end comes waste (ammonia). Basically your fish wees/poops in the water. And the more they eat the more comes out the other end. Ammonia damages gills, mucus membranes and causes internal bleeding.

To prevent damage we have filters, these contain bacteria which feed on ammonia and convert it to Nitrate which is much less dangerous. 

Ammonia is also less of a problem the more water you have, because the more water the more dilute the ammonia.

Another way to dilute ammonia is to do water changes. This only works if the water you use for the change is free of ammonia otherwise you are just putting back in any you take out.

You have a very small volume of water and no filter, that's maximising the risk of ammonia. 

A one gallon tank is too small, even for a Betta. Here are some basic tips on Betta keeping: http://www.fishlore.com/aquariummagazine/mar08/betta-tank-setup.htm

I'd suggest you get a sample of your tank water tested in a fish shop. I bet the quality is not good, particularly just before a change. You can't tell how good it is by looking, it might be horrible but look perfect. We're talking about substances that are invisible to the naked eye. It's like vodka is crystal clear.. doesn't mean your fish can live in it!


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## Sweetie (May 21, 2011)

*Watermelons wrote: *


> To add to what the others have already answered.
> Please use aquarium salt. Just follow the directions on the box, its super cheap (dont use table salt, that has iodine) and helps fish keep up their natural slime coating, as well as helping to protect them from illness, all tropical water has a bit of salt in it (this should be used for all your fish)
> 
> Betta fish, despite what everyone things, need warmth, and do much better in a tropical fish environment, so a slightly warmer area of the house, or even adding a light to help warm the water up because usually room temp just isnt warm enough for them.
> ...



He is an adult betta. I found out while looking online that their stomachs are as big as their eyes, that is small. I use stress coat and/or water conditioner in my fish tanks for all my fish. I read online that aquarium salt isn't good for a sick betta fish. I just hope my betta has recovered from whatever he has/had.

He is doing better today. So hopefully he will continue to do well. I think it might have been swimbladder disease, because he didn't have anything else wrong with him.

I will decrease his pellets and feed him a little bit and see if that is what it was. Maybe I am overfeeding him. But I feed my other betta the same amount and he is doing wonderfully.

My other betta is a halfmoon betta fish. He is also in a one gallon fish tank, don't worry they are not in the same one. They are separate. I do know that male bettas will fight with each other.

Is there anything else I can do to ensure that my bettas stay healthy?


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## Sweetie (May 21, 2011)

*tamsin wrote: *


> > Thank you! My doubletail betta actually eats his pellets within a minute or so, so I don't think that the water is getting polluted. The water looks very clear every day. Whenever I do water changes I always use stress coat and/or water conditioner that is right for the fish tanks that I have.
> 
> 
> Food goes into your Betta's mouth and out the other end comes waste (ammonia). Basically your fish wees/poops in the water. And the more they eat the more comes out the other end. Ammonia damages gills, mucus membranes and causes internal bleeding.
> ...



Can I put both my doubletail and halfmoon bettas in the 55 gallon fish tank that has a heater and filter? Or would they fightwith each other? What I am asking is, is a 55 gallon fish tank big enough for two male bettas to be happy and healthy living in together? I have other fish in the 55 gallon fish tank so I will have to watch them as they do eat new fish that would be put in there. The fish in the 55 gallon tank are not aggressive fish. I have three clown loaches, two plecos, 4 goldfish, 1 tinfoil barb, and 1 black skirt fish. They have all been living with each other for 4 years or so. I do change the water every two weeks or so.

I am asking this because I don't want to stress my fish out if I can help it.


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## tamsin (May 21, 2011)

Water conditioner etc. won't replace a filter. It's designed to make already clean water safe for use with fish eg remove the chlorine. It won't clean dirty water. 

I don't think clown loaches would be good tank mates for bettas and it wouldn't be a good idea to put two in together. What you could do is get another larger tank and split it in two with a divider and then keep one fish in each half. If you make it so water can flow between sides then you would only need one tank/heater/filter for both fish.


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## Sweetie (May 21, 2011)

Ok I was just wondering about the fish making good tankmates. Thank you tamsin. Also thank you everyone who has posted in this thread, I will look into getting a couple 2.5 gallon fish tanks with filters for my two bettas who I love so very much. 

I will keep you all posted on how my bettas are doing. Budget is tight right now but I believe I can do it if I do things right.


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## tamsin (May 22, 2011)

No problem. Try looking second hand if your budget it tight. Just increasing the tank size will help a lot keeping the water more stable. If money is very tight, a bucket isn't pretty but does the same job as a tank very cheaply!


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## Sweetie (May 22, 2011)

I do have a five gallon bucket but I won't see him from the sides. Plus I have a cat that would probably like to try to get the betta if I put him in a bucket.


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## Happi Bun (May 22, 2011)

I have my rescue Betta Cujo in a 2.5 gallon, heated, doing 100% water changes every 4 - 5 days. 

Here is a really good caresheet;

http://www.ultimatebettas.com/index.php?showtopic=18097


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## degrassi (May 22, 2011)

*tamsin wrote: *


> You need to be careful adding salt to everything, not all fish live in water that would have it. Some softwater fish live in water that would have virtually no solids like salt dissolved in it at all. Adding salt to their water could stress them rather than fix them.
> 
> The other issue with salt is it doesn't evaporate. So you add salt, the water evaporates leaving the salt behind and then you add more water & salt at the next water change and gradually over time the salt level increases until it's harmful.


Agreed, salt shouldn't be used all the time in a freshwater tank. The only time salt should be used is for fish that required it(brackish, marine) or as a treatment for a disease like Ich. Using salt all the time with fish is actually more stressful. The "helps their slime coat" thing is a myth. Salt can help with Nitrite poisoning but even that is in VERY small quantities, no where near the teaspoons or tablespoons that is sometimes recommended. 



> Don't do 100% water changes, 50% maximum, otherwise you are making massive changes to his environment that fish have trouble adapting too. It's better to do small frequent changes that occasional massive ones.



100% water changes aren't bad as long as you match the temp and other parameters. Use a good water conditioner and let it sit a few minutes before adding the water back. Lots of people do 100% water changes every day with more sensitive fish them bettas. Discus owners/breeders do daily water changes and some breeders do multiple(100%) water change overs in a day. When I raise fry I do almost 100% water changes daily. It helps them grow faster and be healthier. As long as the water going in has the same temp and parameters then its only going to help, not stress. Clean water is always better then dirty. 

In a small 1gal container that doesn't have a filter you don't really have to worry about cycling. You need to be doing lots of water changes to keep the waste(ammonia,nitrite,nitrate) down. With a small filterless container the water changes replace the cycle. A betta can do ok in a 1gal bowl(not ideal tho) but you need to make sure the water stays clean by doing lots of water changes. I know lots of betta breeders and they keep their fish in mason jars but they change 100% of the water each day. 

The most important thing you can learn about fish keeping is Clean water = healthy fish. If you fish are looking sick, the first thing you should do is a water change. 99,9% of the time its a water quality issue. Meds and stuff usually only make the problem worse and kill your fish faster.


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## Watermelons (May 22, 2011)

Thats fine, its your fish that are dying, not mine. Enjoy your goldfish.


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## tamsin (May 22, 2011)

I would guess most Discus breeders are using RO so it's easier to match parameters exactly than tap water. With tap water, the values won't necessarily be constant so you'd need the kit to test each time if you are changing 100%. 

100% daily probably would be less likely cause a problem as there is little time for the water to change. If you wait a week/10 days between water changes the original water can have changed a lot and may not match new water even from the same source. Particularly if you've got no filter (the ph is likely to have dropped from the waste), the TDS has probably risen and some gravel/orniments can also gradually leach into the water changing ph and hardness over time.

If you know what you're doing, I'm sure you can avoid the issues but you definately need to be more cautious.

What sort of fish do you keep?


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## Happi Bun (May 22, 2011)

Per the caresheet I posted regarding water changes and Betta's:



> Betta tanks, no matter their size, require regular cleaning. In an uncycled betta tank, one must do 100% water changes. This means emptying all of the water in the tank, washing the tank and all decor with hot water, and replacing it with fresh, clean, dechlorinated water. In a properly cleaned betta tank, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate should all be 0 parts per million (ppm). Test your water often.
> 
> Cleaning Schedule by Tank Size
> 1 gallon -- 100% water change every 3 days
> ...


It's extremely common for Betta owners to do 100% water changes and recommended when the fish is being housed in an non cycled environment to keep water quality good. Of course precautions must be taken. You must remove the Betta fish. The water needs to be the same temperature, as in it registers on the thermometer as the same. I dechlorinate my water using Prime - I absolutely love that stuff. Let that sit for a few minutes. Then you are good to go.


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## Sweetie (May 22, 2011)

Happi Bun: that was very helpful, thank you very much!

Tamsin: the fish I keep are 3 clown loaches, 4 goldfish, 2 plecos, 1 tinfoil barb, and 1 blackskirt fish in a 55 gallon fishtank. They are all very happy together and have lived together for 4 years or so. I keep the tank very clean.

I plan on setting up my 10 gallon fish tank and dividing it so I can have my two bettas happier and healthier. Where can I get a divider really cheap?


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