# Rabbit won't come out of litterbox



## Maverick061106 (Mar 9, 2010)

I devised a new cage with a litterbox attached to the outside for my Flemish Giant. It is one of the large covered cat boxes wired to the doorway of a large parrot cagewhich hasrubber matting on the floor of the cage (bedding in the litterbox). His food and water are nearby, but not within reach of the litterbox. (His previous cage was simply a large rubbermaid container with bedding in it.)

He went into the litterboximmediately and will not come out on his own. It has been 2 days now and I have to take him out of the box and block it from him in order for him to eat and drink.

What should I do? Will he get out on his own if he gets hungry or thirsty enough? I am at a loss...


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## Pipp (Mar 9, 2010)

Ooooh, you built him a warren!! He's probably one really happy bunny. They love being in covered spaces (instinctual, keeps them safe from hawks, other predators). He's just chillin' out, it's new and cool! 

I actually wouldn't cover his litter box unless it was in a big enough area to house both the bunny and the box. Can you put another litter box in the corner and let him use the covered box for his hideaway? Or cover another area of his cage (or put in a cardboard box) so he has an alternative 'chill' spot? 

Bunnies really really don't like being caged in an open area. It goes against every instinct. 


sas :bunnydance:


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## Maverick061106 (Mar 9, 2010)

The parrot cage is about 2'x3'. It has a lower door and an upper door and I had planned on adding a platform later so he could have another level up top...although if he never comes out of the box, there wouldn't be much point in that... I'll try to post a pic of the setup soon.

Being a Flemish, 6 sf is not really that big anyway, so I hate to add another box inside the cage...the only reason I got a covered box is because it was large enough for him, for one, AND he wouldn't be able to kick bedding out of it. My landlord is none too happy about me having any animals in the house, so I can only keep him indoors if the area stays CLEAN.

Would I maybe be able to replace the solid top on the litterbox with something see-through? If he likes it so much, I don't mind if he stays in there as long as I don't have to worry about him eating and drinking. *Will it being a hidey spot discourage him from using the bathroom there?*

We get him out often and let him hang out in the living room (wood floors - no carpet). He even jumps up on the couch with us  I just hadn't seen him get out since I put him in there and don't want to worry about him!


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## tamsin (Mar 9, 2010)

Is he coming out at night? Try leaving some bits and bobs laying around in the cage and see if anything is moved the next day.


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## Maverick061106 (Mar 9, 2010)

I THINK he may have come out once, becuase there was a small piece of bedding lying in the cage floor this morning...but he could have kicked that out of the litterbox, also, so I'm not sure...


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## Maverick061106 (Mar 12, 2010)

Well, I took the lid off the litterbox and moved it inside the cage. Now, he will put his feet on the side of the litterbox and reach as far as he can to get to his water and food. He will jump out of the box to leave his cage...but not to eat or stretch out...I don't understand. The only thing I can think that it might be is that the bedding is more comfortable than the rubber floor?

Here is what the cage looks like at the moment...













And here is Luca, snoozing...


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## Maverick061106 (Mar 12, 2010)

Do you think the litterbox is too big? Maybe if I tried a smaller one that he can't lie down in?


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## elrohwen (Mar 12, 2010)

I think the litterbox is a good size - bigger is almost always better, especially with a big bun.

Maybe he doesn't like the cage flooring? Can you put down a blanket or something? My bun wouldn't leave his litter box when the cage floor was slippery plastic because he was scared.

How much time does he get outside of his cage? Unless he's out 24/7 and that cage is only for food/litter box, it's far far too small for him.


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## undergunfire (Mar 14, 2010)

I think he needs a bigger cage, as that one is way too tiny for a Flemish Giant to even just sleep in.


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## JadeIcing (Mar 14, 2010)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> I think he needs a bigger cage, as that one is way too tiny for a Flemish Giant to even just sleep in.




I agree. My flemish looks smaller than he is and I could never picture putting her in that. How much does Luca weigh? How old?


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## Maverick061106 (Mar 15, 2010)

Luca is about a year and a half old. I havent weighed him since he was 6 mos old. I'd say he is probably 18-22 lbs or so... VERY rough estimate.

He gets out most of the day. Mornings when I get ready for work, and when I get home until bedtime, unless we leave to go somewhere.

He is now getting out on the floor of the cage, but we have a new issue. He is peeing in the litterbox, but dropping his pellets on the cage floor... At least he is peeing where he needs to be, but it is still an inconvenience. I have been scooping the pellets and putting them in the litterbox every time I see them.

And I have black rubber mats (an outdoor mat turned over to the smooth backside) on the floor of his cage...

Any more advice, guys? I feel he has enough room in his cage for as much as he gets out. He can comfortably lie down in the litterbox and on the open part of the cage floor. The pictures do not show the sizing very well compared to him. I will try to take some more. Maybe I'm wrong... He was in a slightly smaller enclosure before and did quite well in it. I would like to build a second floor in this current cage, but want to get these kinks worked out first to see if it is even a possibility...


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## elrohwen (Mar 15, 2010)

He needs a bigger cage. That's the only piece of advice I can offer right now and I think it will help all of your other issues. That cage is far far too small for him to ever be shut up in, even if he does get a lot of exercise time. The minimum size for even a small bun is 4'x2'. For a flemmie I think 4'x4' would be the bare minimum.


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## Maverick061106 (Mar 15, 2010)

Thanks, I will see what I can do...


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## wabbitmom12 (Mar 15, 2010)

:inlove:First of all, I WANT YOUR BUNNY!!! LOL. Luca is now officially on my bun-napping list. We love blue flemish, and think they are AWESOME!! 6 months ago we had 3 of them; right now, we have just 1,our 5 year old blue flemmie, Velvet. And, she thinks Luca is SO handsome!

I would agree with elrohwen about the bigger cage space. Even though Luca is out a good bit of the day, it sounds like he doesn't have a enough room to chill in his cage. 

It is hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like he can be in his litterbox, or laying beside it with barely enough room to stretch out...and even then, part of him would be under his food dish.

Our experience has been that buns do like to hang out in litterboxes....really, boxes of any sort. I think they feel safe there, and don't mind the confines of the box. However, in an area that is supposed to be open, they don't want tobecramped for space.

A 2nd floor is a good idea. Lots of good pluses: It gives the bun a chance to hop up, it adds something interesting to do, he can get up there and have a different perspective on the room, it's a place to chill out, you can put snacks or toys up there occasionally for him to discover, etc. 

And you are right...he might also dislike the feeling of the floor mat, for whatever reason.

I'm a fan of choosing the easy fix first (the mat), but I definitely would add more space (2nd floor), and keep the litter box....it's just the right size (we use a kitty boxforVelvettoo).


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## TinysMom (Mar 15, 2010)

My flemish giants love to chill out in their litterboxes....even though they have a lot of cage space that is free beside the box. 

I don't think I'd worry about it too much - he could just be one who likes the idea of laying in the box.


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## Maverick061106 (Mar 15, 2010)

Luca says thanks for the complimentwabbitmom12 

I think I will work on putting a second level in there - that would give him a good open space to chill in. Maybe by this weekend we can get that done.

Now that he is coming out of the litterbox, our issue is getting him to poo in there. As I said, he has peed in the box every time, but now keeps pooing on the rubber mats...


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## undergunfire (Mar 15, 2010)

I doubt putting in a 2nd level is going to do any good for that cage  - the cage is just too small for him. I'd look into getting a really large dog kennel.


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## Maverick061106 (Mar 16, 2010)

A dog crate is actually what I used as his very first cage. I raise and train coonhounds, so it is the largest crate I could find, since my dogs are large. That crate is pretty much the same size as the cage, just not as tall.


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## Pipp (Mar 16, 2010)

Maverick061106 wrote:


> Well, I took the lid off the litterbox and moved it inside the cage...



This was the exact opposite of what I said would make him happy. :? Rabbits feel uncomfortable and insecure without something over their heads, you removed his refuge. 

Keep the covered litterbox for sleeping and put a smaller litter box in the pen that fits snug against the side of the crate (you can't afford to lose an inch with the limited size). 

Or put a sturdy cardboard box in the pen with a nice big doorway. He can go inside or on top. (You can also put the litterpan inside the box). 

If you fasten a hay wrack to the side of the pen above the litterbox, he'll sit and munch and poop. 

DEFINITELY put in a shelf. As wide as possible. 

But unless he can do at least a full length Flemish flop and have the room to stretch from nose to extended back feet, I have to agree that the cage isn't big enough. If he can't stretch out, he's forced into sleeping in an unhealthy cramped position and he'll pay for it later in life. 


sas :expressionless:


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## Sox (Mar 17, 2010)

Is there a possibility he is terrified of the rubber mat, dislikes the rubber smell or doesn't like black?:?:shock2: I bought a black sheep skin cover for Sox and she was absolutely terrified of it would not go near it. I would put her favourite food on it and she would not go for the food and when the food is immediately placed elsewhere she would grab it. I placed her on the sheep skin and she would immediately run off. When I place her food and water on it she just refused to eat. And when I turned the sheepskin over to the grey leathery side, she would come over and investigate with curiousity and she would flipped it over she sees the other side and run off. In the end I used it to cover up her route of escape and it worked! 

When she comes out for a play, try placing her on the mat with her favourite food and see what happens?

Just a thought.

Hope you solve the mystery! 

Cheers, Carol 


:bunnydance:


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## Maverick061106 (Mar 23, 2010)

Just to update everyone...

Moved the litterbox back to the way we had it before - with the lid on, sitting right in the doorway of the cage.

He goes in and out normally now, so maybe he was just getting used to the new setup.

Still have not gotten a second level put up, but will do that as soon as possible.

After it's all said and done, he should have about 6 sf in the bottom, about 5.5 sf in the top level, and the large litterbox outside the door...


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## elrohwen (Mar 23, 2010)

That's still far too small for a flemmie. I'm sorry, but it is.


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## Pipp (Mar 23, 2010)

Maverick061106 wrote:


> Just to update everyone...
> 
> Moved the litterbox back to the way we had it before - with the lid on, sitting right in the doorway of the cage.
> 
> ...



I think you're doing a great job trying to accommodate him.  

And I think the space will do. As long as he can stretch out, he'll be fine. The upper level will give him some in-house exercise. 

He'll need a lot of free run time, but honestly, a rabbit burrow is a pretty small space! 

But a lot depends on the bunny. Does he think of it as home or a prison? My guys will hang out in their pens even when the door is open, especially my Flemish. And his space isn't that much bigger -- 4' x 2 ft I think, but it has a double-wide shelf. He loves it. 

I really commend you for making the effort! :highfive:


sas :bunnydance:


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## Pipp (Mar 23, 2010)

Sox wrote:


> Is there a possibility he is terrified of the rubber mat, dislikes the rubber smell or doesn't like black?:?:shock2: I bought a black sheep skin cover for Sox and she was absolutely terrified of it would not go near it.



Just saw this, LOL! I have bunnies who refuse to put one paw down on my red kitchen floor. I used to have two of them in the spare room off the kitchen and I never even needed a gate to keep them in. They'd come to the edge of the doorway and streeeeetch out, but not one toe would hit the floor. 

If I put a path of newspapers down, though, they'd hop right out. 


sas :bunnydance:


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## Maverick061106 (Mar 23, 2010)

I appreciate the opinion, elrohwen.

However, I know my bun. If he were cooped up all the time like many pet rabbits, I could see requiring a 4'x4' cage, however, this is not the case. Luca is free to roam the house most of the time. For 4-6 hours each night and 6 hours of the day three days a week, I feel this is adequate for him... If that happens to change, I will revise my cage plans, as I intend on giving Luca a happy healthy life.

I am considering adding a small "playpen" type area in front of the door as well that he can access at all times, if I can figure out what to use as flooring. This would increase his space a good bit as well. Any suggestions anyone? I MUST NOT worry about urine getting on the carpet, so floor must be waterproof/leakproof somehow...just in case of an accident.


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## Maverick061106 (Mar 23, 2010)

*Pipp wrote: *


> But a lot depends on the bunny. Does he think of it as home or a prison? My guys will hang out in their pens even when the door is open, especially my Flemish. And his space isn't that much bigger -- 4' x 2 ft I think, but it has a double-wide shelf. He loves it.



Luca returns to his cage willingly (independently) fairly often - to use the potty and to munch. Rarely, he will even go in to lie down. I have a feeling that our house's carpet is more comfortable to him than the rubber floor in his cage, though 

He does not fuss when I put him up for the night. He does know when it's time to come out in the mornings, thoughlol He will tug at the wire door until I open it in the mornings...



And thanks for all the opinions and help, everyone!


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## Pipp (Mar 23, 2010)

Yup, Mike needs his blanket in his pen to lounge on, and when he's out he's on the couch all flopped out. I guess with that body weight they need a forgiving surface!


sas :bunnydance:


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## elrohwen (Mar 23, 2010)

I think adding a pen would be a fantastic idea! You could always buy a piece of plywood and over it with lino tiles. Or just a piece of chloroplast.

I like to buy vinyl table clothes (the kind with felted backs that you use to protect your table) for under my pen. They don't work for a digger, but for a non-digging bun they provide a nice waterproof surface, some traction, and they protect hardwood floors.


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## Maverick061106 (Mar 24, 2010)

The choroplast idea sounds great to me, but I have had absolutely no luck finding where it might be available in my area... I am in NE Tennessee. Anyone know?


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## Pipp (Mar 24, 2010)

I'd find an old area carpet to protect your regular carpet, and if it gets yucky (and it probably won't if he's the only bunny on it), just throw it out and get another one. 

The corroplast is pretty slippery, but you can buy it new at art stores or look for used ones from any business using signs, including McDonalds. Look for art companies who specialize in painting the signs and they might direct you to customers who ordered ones for time-limited events or promotions. 

I find that conventions and festivals are good sources. 


sas :bunnydance:


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