# Vitakraft Menu Vital and False Advertising?



## lunarlady (Dec 28, 2012)

Hi guys! My best friend just recently gave me a pair of cute little bunnies for Christmas and I'm so in love with them! 

I noticed that they didn't like eating the regular pellets that my friend gave me along with the rabbits so I immediately went to the pet store to look for better alternatives. They had Vitakraft Menu Vital, which looked legitimately good and nutritious, so I bought it for my bunnies. They seem to love eating the food and it made me happy to see them munch it up. 

However, as I was researching for other foodstuffs I could feed them, I read that corn isn't good for bunnies at all. But I saw that there were dried corn in the Vitakraft mix! I literally had to search all over if there was an exception to the rule but I found none.  

How can that be when the bag itself advertises that the contents were carefully crafted to suit the bunnies' special diet??? 

Can you let me know if there really is an exception to the rule? Like maybe Vitakraft uses special good-for-rabbits corn? But if not, I mean, how can they give such awful advertising?! 

I've been feeding my rabbits this stuff for about 5 days now. So far, there's no bad side-effects that I can observe but I don't want to ruin them by feeding them Vitakraft. Right now, my plan is to just remove the corn from each serving that I give until the bag is done. I feel really bad.

Can someone explain this bit about Vitakraft and corn? Thanks guys!


----------



## MikeScone (Dec 28, 2012)

lunarlady said:


> How can that be when the bag itself advertises that the contents were carefully crafted to suit the bunnies' special diet???
> ... So far, there's no bad side-effects that I can observe but I don't want to ruin them by feeding them Vitakraft. Right now, my plan is to just remove the corn from each serving that I give until the bag is done. I feel really bad.



I wouldn't feel bad about it. There are lots of things which are "bad for bunnies", but unless the item is actually toxic, what that really means is "long-term feeding of this stuff is not a good idea". 

You'll get lots of advice on various sorts of food, with some people maintaining that so-and-so is "bad" or "high" in one thing or another, and other people saying "I've fed Fluffy that stuff for years, and she's fine." I'm no expert, but from the research I've done it seems to boil down to an "everything in moderation" rule. Lots of foods are higher than others in various things, especially when analyzed on a dry weight basis - most plants are mostly water - but if you feed a balanced, mixed diet, the rabbit doesn't get enough of any one thing to see the adverse effects, if any. 

As to corn, from what I can see, there is an exception. It's not the type of corn, but how it's processed. The outside of the kernels is tough, so if rabbits eat whole kernels there can be problems if the rabbit doesn't break the kernel down enough - that's true for either fresh or dried corn. Milled corn, which is what is usually put in commercial rabbit food, is broken already, so it's not a concern for that reason. It's not good as a sole food source, but as part of a complete diet it's fine. 

See: https://www.naturalrabbitfood.com/can-rabbits-eat-corn/


----------



## tamsin (Dec 28, 2012)

Basically, don't believe anything on the packaging! They'll all say stuff like gourmet, specially formulated, premium but it's all marketing. Instead, have a look at the nutritional analysis on the back, you want protein around 12-14% for an adult or 16% for a youngster, and a fibre content of 18%+. Pelleted is better than mixed grains, and something with grass/hay as the first or second item of the ingredient list.


----------



## JBun (Dec 28, 2012)

Ok, so there are a few reasons you aren't going to want to feed your bunnies this food. Basically it's junk food for rabbits, because of all the sugars and carbs in it. It will basically spoil your rabbits and be hard to get them to eat anything else. That's the least of the problems. Also, that is correct that corn isn't good for rabbits for a couple reasons, because the hull of the corn, if not chewed up properly, can cause a blockage in the rabbits gut(which is REALLY bad and can be life threatening), and the other reason is because of all the extra carbs that corn provides, which is bad too. This is why all these extra carbs and sugars from the seeds and fruit in this food is bad. Rabbits have a very sensitive digestive system, some more than others, and for digestion, rabbits need to maintain a balance of good bacteria in their gut. Loading all these carbs and sugars into a rabbits diet can disrupt the balance in th gut, causing an overgrowth of bad bacteria, which can lead to severe digestive problems that are often life threatening. These are bloat, mucoid enteritis, and GI stasis. I've had one rabbit die this year, because of a genetic digestive problem that made her digestive system extra sensitive and when I gave her half a grape one day, she developed stasis from it and died. Unfortunately, I didn't understand all this stuff at the time. Not all rabbits are going to be so sensitve, and you may feed this stuff and never have problems, but if you happen to have a rabbit that is more sensitive, it could develop one of these illnesses, and though it is possible for them to get better, half the time they don't.

With all that fruit and seeds added in, that is just a lot of carbs for a rabbit. Rabbits just need a basic plain rabbit food without corn in the ingredient list. If you happen to have a walmart there with a small animal section, I've used their small world rabbit food before. It's a decent food with no added corn. Oxbow is a good food, but more expensive. If you have baby rabbits, make sure you are feeding an alfalfa based pellet, as they need the extra protein in their diets. With rabbits you never want to do a sudden diet change with them. Some rabbits will be ok if you do, but this is more preventative in case you have a rabbit that is more sensitive, as a sudden diet change can cause digestive problems and make them sick. With rabbits, you always want to start with a very small amount of the new food, and very gradually increase the amounts over 2-3 weeks, as long as the rabbits poops stay the normal sized round poops. This applies to introducing new pellets, veggies, or alfalfa hay. You don't need to gradually introduce grass hay to rabbits. I would suggest finding a new plain pellet, then pick all the treat pieces out of your current rabbit food, and gradually start mixing in a small amount of the new rabbit food with your current rabbit food, and gradually over 2 weeks, increase the amount of new food each day, and decrease the amount of old food, so that in 2 weeks you will be switched over to the new food completely.

Are you feeding a grass hay, like timothy, to your rabbits? That should actually be the main part of their diet. Hay helps keep their teeth healthy as well as keeps their digestion moving well too. Rabbits should have unlimited hay every day. I would avoid grain hays like oat, unless you are willing to pick all of the oats seeds out of the hay so your rabbit doesn't eat them because of all the carbs. Timothy is a pretty commonly fed grass hay for rabbits, but I'm not sure what you will have available to you. With pellets, some places recommend feeding bunnies unlimited pellets until they are adults, but I've found that causes poopy bum problems with my bunnies, so I will feed mine limited pellets. My 2 lb bunnies get about 1/3 cup pellets a day, and as they get bigger I'll increase the amount a little until they are full grown at 6-8 months. Adult rabbits should get 1/4-1/2 cup plain pellets every day per 6 lb. body weight. At 12 weeks you can also start very gradually introducing veggies, but you have to make sure that they don't get any soft poops from the veggies, or gas, as some veggies cause gas, and gas can make a rabbit very sick.

Here are some good links on what to feed rabbits and veggie lists and how to introduce them.

http://www.rabbit.org/faq/sections/diet.html
http://www.rabbit.org/care/veggies.html
http://www.3bunnies.org/feeding.htm#greens

Good luck with your bunnies! They can be lots of fun at that age. We all love to see pictures of everyones rabbits on this forum, so feel free to post pics of your babies if you would like to


----------



## lunarlady (Dec 28, 2012)

Oh my, thank you all so much!  The information you've shared with me is really really helpful! The "moderation is key" advice is also a good reminder and rule of thumb for me.

Today, I decided to lessen the portion of their Vitakraft food and added some bits of carrots in the mix. Then I went out to a nearby field and cut some healthy-looking grass, washed them, and fed them some, just to try it out. So far, they're loving the grass. They don't seem to be looking for the Vitakraft food so much today, but maybe that's cause they're curious about the new food items.

I feed them carrots and veggies every other day and let them run around the house about an hour in the morning and another hour in the evening. They seem to enjoy it. 

However, my white rabbit, named Blanco, is much bigger than my gray one, named Sylvia. I was hoping both of them would grow the same. I don't understand why Sylvia isn't growing as big. She's almost always as hungry as Blanco.


----------



## lunarlady (Dec 28, 2012)

By the way, I'm out to look for some other food alternatives for my bunnies. Will go to this famous pet-shop place today and look for that hay that everyone advices my bunnies should have. I've found an online seller here in the country, however, her shop is only open from Sundays to Thursdays. If I can't find any hay today, I'll message her tomorrow and place an order. I can't wait! So excited!


----------



## tamsin (Dec 28, 2012)

You can interchange grass and hay  Most people feed hay because they don't have access to enough grass to supply their rabbits and it's convenient to store. If you've got access to lots of tasty grass that can make up the bulk of their diet, although you need to increase the quantity gradually so their guts can adjust to digesting it. It's handy to have hay to hand too though, for days when the grass isn't looking good or in winter when it's not growing so quickly.

Hay or grass is really the most important part, the dry food doesn't make as much difference when you're not feeding much of it.


----------



## Vitakraft (Jan 4, 2013)

Hi Everyone,

This is Stacie from Vitakraft. We just wanted to answer some questions that were raised in this forum about our products at Vitakraft. Firstly, this is not the USA version of MENU, which we know is very confusing! If any Vitakraft product is being purchased in the Philippines, it is most likely the German version &#8211; MENU VITAL. The USA product is MENU CARE COMPLEX.

Many of the European formulations contain more corn than our US formulations. In Europe it is not unusual for Rabbits to be housed in outdoor hutches most of the year, because the climate is much milder in both summer and winter. These rabbits get a lot more activity and burn a lot more calories than their US counterparts. Corn adds energy to the diet. If the Rabbit is active, this energy is burned as fuel. If the rabbit is sedentary, it is stored on the waistline! Not that different than my waistline after the holiday&#8230;.

In the US market, our pets tend to be a bit more sedentary. As such, we tend to formulate our foods to be higher in fiber, lower in fat. The USA MENU Care Complex was formulated to be a good daily diet for pet, or &#8220;house&#8221;, rabbits. Though ground corn is contained in the colored extrusions, there is no whole or cracked corn used as a stand-alone ingredient. 

To get a diet that is even lower in grains in your market, you may want to consider a higher price tier. If you are interested in our product line, the next step in Vitakraft is the VitaSmart.

We are working on making the VitaSmart available in the Asia Pacific market, but currently is not available. If anyone would like more information about the Asia Pacific market, please contact:

Vitakraft Asia Pacific Pte Ltd
#04-07 GERMAN CENTRE, 25 International Business Park, Singapore 609916
p: 65629136 f: 65629139
Website - None Supplied
Email Vitakraft Asia Pacific Pte Ltd


Thanks everyone for letting us post here and hopefully answering some of your questions!


----------



## Chrisdoc (Jan 4, 2013)

I have used Vitakraft before and I´ve found it very good, I used it when they were quite small as the pellets were very high fibre but they were quite expensive but worth it at the time as they were specially for junior and dwarf rabbits. Don´t know if they´re available in the States but they do quite a few varieties in Europe. They do sell the muesli type over here but I never buy it as it can create selective eating so prefer to stick to the better high fibre pellets and feed less with more veggies now.

I´m now getting Excel pellets from Gibraltar as it works out much cheaper but I have used Wagg as well probably only availble in Europe.


----------



## Elliot (Jan 5, 2013)

I use this and Elliot loves it! They will send you a free sample of two lbs.:bunny24
https://www.naturalrabbitfood.com/


----------



## Imbrium (Jan 5, 2013)

sherwood forest is indeed great stuff, but they only ship within the US


----------



## Chrisdoc (Jan 5, 2013)

Jennifer, it seems that what you all use and it sounds great. Over here, I just have to find the best I can at the most reasonable price. If my mum comes over in Jan or Feb, I usually get her to bring a couple of bags of the excel with her as she never brings much luggage but as they're small, they don't eat mounds of the pellets anyway.


----------



## Watermelons (Jan 5, 2013)

Lunarlady.
What might be easiest is if you give that famous pet shop a phone call (or the online store, can you link it to us?) and ask them what brands they have available. Post the list of brands on here, and members will be able to give you feedback on each brand you're able to physically purchase. Rather then saying "Oh hey this _______ brand rocks" and it's not something you can even purchase  Let us know whats available to you.

As per the advertising. Think of Dog food TV Commercials... Pedigree, Iams... "Happy healthy lives" Look how much those foods are talked up in commercials, when in reality the food is some of the worst food you can get for you dogs.


----------



## Trixie (Jan 5, 2013)

Imbrium said:


> sherwood forest is indeed great stuff, but they only ship within the US



They do ship out of the US. 

**How We Ship-*

*We can ship to virtually any address in the world, although it becomes expensive to ship outside the U.S. at this time. After researching all the major carriers/shippers, we found that the U.S. postal service (USPS) has the lowest rate to any area within the U.S. (including Alaska, Hawaii and U.S. protectorates) and the best shipping times...2-3 days is standard for both the 4.5 lb. bags and 'bulk' boxes of the 3 feeds using priority mail. Most other feed companies say they will ship within a day or so, then it takes about 5-7 business days to get your order delivered to you. Some other feed dealers even say 7-10 days for shipping. We can also ship to Canada and International, but the priority shipping rate will increase. Contact us for details.*


----------



## Trixie (Jan 5, 2013)

JBun said:


> Ok, so there are a few reasons you aren't going to want to feed your bunnies this food. Basically it's junk food for rabbits, because of all the sugars and carbs in it. It will basically spoil your rabbits and be hard to get them to eat anything else. That's the least of the problems. Also, that is correct that corn isn't good for rabbits for a couple reasons, because the hull of the corn, if not chewed up properly, can cause a blockage in the rabbits gut(which is REALLY bad and can be life threatening), and the other reason is because of all the extra carbs that corn provides, which is bad too. This is why all these extra carbs and sugars from the seeds and fruit in this food is bad. Rabbits have a very sensitive digestive system, some more than others, and for digestion, rabbits need to maintain a balance of good bacteria in their gut. Loading all these carbs and sugars into a rabbits diet can disrupt the balance in th gut, causing an overgrowth of bad bacteria, which can lead to severe digestive problems that are often life threatening. These are bloat, mucoid enteritis, and GI stasis. I've had one rabbit die this year, because of a genetic digestive problem that made her digestive system extra sensitive and when I gave her half a grape one day, she developed stasis from it and died. Unfortunately, I didn't understand all this stuff at the time. Not all rabbits are going to be so sensitve, and you may feed this stuff and never have problems, but if you happen to have a rabbit that is more sensitive, it could develop one of these illnesses, and though it is possible for them to get better, half the time they don't.
> 
> With all that fruit and seeds added in, that is just a lot of carbs for a rabbit. Rabbits just need a basic plain rabbit food without corn in the ingredient list. If you happen to have a walmart there with a small animal section, I've used their small world rabbit food before. It's a decent food with no added corn. Oxbow is a good food, but more expensive. If you have baby rabbits, make sure you are feeding an alfalfa based pellet, as they need the extra protein in their diets. With rabbits you never want to do a sudden diet change with them. Some rabbits will be ok if you do, but this is more preventative in case you have a rabbit that is more sensitive, as a sudden diet change can cause digestive problems and make them sick. With rabbits, you always want to start with a very small amount of the new food, and very gradually increase the amounts over 2-3 weeks, as long as the rabbits poops stay the normal sized round poops. This applies to introducing new pellets, veggies, or alfalfa hay. You don't need to gradually introduce grass hay to rabbits. I would suggest finding a new plain pellet, then pick all the treat pieces out of your current rabbit food, and gradually start mixing in a small amount of the new rabbit food with your current rabbit food, and gradually over 2 weeks, increase the amount of new food each day, and decrease the amount of old food, so that in 2 weeks you will be switched over to the new food completely.
> 
> ...



I looked up the ingredients in the small world rabbit food. Here is the ingredients.

Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein - Min - 16.00%. Crude Fat - Min - 2.50%. Crude Fiber - Min - 15.00%. Crude Fiber - Max - 20.00%. Calcium - Min - 0.75%. Calcium - Max - 1.25%. Phosphorus - Min - 0.50%. Salt - Min - 0.25%. Salt - Max - 0.75%. Sodium - Max - 0.30%. Vitamin A - Min - 3,000 Iu/Lb. Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Wheat Middling's, Roughage Products, Soybean Meal, Feeding Oatmeal, DL-Methionine, Yucca Schidigera, Extract Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Ferrous Carbonate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Zinc Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Choline Chloride, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement. Note: This Products Was Made In A Facility That Handles Peanuts. Pursuant To California Labeling Laws, The Following Ingredient Statement Applies To Product Manufactured In Our Fresno, Ca Facility. Product Manufactured At This Facility Will Include The Letter "F" In The Date Code. The Date Code Can Be Found On The White Strip At The Bottom Of The Bag. Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Wheat Mill Run, Soybean Hulls (8.0%), Safflower Meal, Rice Bran, Soybean Meal, Feeding Oatmeal, DL-Methionine, Yucca Schidigera, Extract Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Ferrous Carbonate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Zinc Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Thiamine Mono Nitrate, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Choline Chloride, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement.


What is roughage products? And there is oatmeal in it. Not sure I like this one.


----------



## Imbrium (Jan 5, 2013)

protein seems a smidge high for the average house bunny... fiber is quite low... and it looks jam-packed full of unnecessary extra carbs ><



Trixie said:


> They do ship out of the US.
> 
> **How We Ship-*
> 
> *We can ship to virtually any address in the world, although it becomes expensive to ship outside the U.S. at this time. After researching all the major carriers/shippers, we found that the U.S. postal service (USPS) has the lowest rate to any area within the U.S. (including Alaska, Hawaii and U.S. protectorates) and the best shipping times...2-3 days is standard for both the 4.5 lb. bags and 'bulk' boxes of the 3 feeds using priority mail. Most other feed companies say they will ship within a day or so, then it takes about 5-7 business days to get your order delivered to you. Some other feed dealers even say 7-10 days for shipping. We can also ship to Canada and International, but the priority shipping rate will increase. Contact us for details.*



oh, nice! either they changed it or I remembered wrong... still, it's probably pretty pricey to have it sent overseas...


----------



## JBun (Jan 5, 2013)

Trixie said:


> I looked up the ingredients in the small world rabbit food. Here is the ingredients.
> 
> Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein - Min - 16.00%. Crude Fat - Min - 2.50%. Crude Fiber - Min - 15.00%. Crude Fiber - Max - 20.00%. Calcium - Min - 0.75%. Calcium - Max - 1.25%. Phosphorus - Min - 0.50%. Salt - Min - 0.25%. Salt - Max - 0.75%. Sodium - Max - 0.30%. Vitamin A - Min - 3,000 Iu/Lb. Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Wheat Middling's, Roughage Products, Soybean Meal, Feeding Oatmeal, DL-Methionine, Yucca Schidigera, Extract Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Ferrous Carbonate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Zinc Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Choline Chloride, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement. Note: This Products Was Made In A Facility That Handles Peanuts. Pursuant To California Labeling Laws, The Following Ingredient Statement Applies To Product Manufactured In Our Fresno, Ca Facility. Product Manufactured At This Facility Will Include The Letter "F" In The Date Code. The Date Code Can Be Found On The White Strip At The Bottom Of The Bag. Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Wheat Mill Run, Soybean Hulls (8.0%), Safflower Meal, Rice Bran, Soybean Meal, Feeding Oatmeal, DL-Methionine, Yucca Schidigera, Extract Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Ferrous Carbonate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Zinc Sulfate, Cobalt Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Thiamine Mono Nitrate, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Choline Chloride, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement.
> 
> ...


 
Every milled rabbit food is going to have some sort of carbohydrate added to it, including the expensive oxbow essentials that many owners feed their rabbits. It has soybean meal, wheat middlings, and molasses, and all have carbohydrates. Even sherwood has carbohydrates in the form of seeds that are used to provide natural nutrients in the feed. So it's just a matter of the form the carbs come in, whether they are complex carbs or simple sugars, and the amount that is added into the feed. The only way you are going to get away from added carbs, is if you only feed hay. 

Roughage products are simply products used to add fiber into the feed.


----------



## Imbrium (Jan 5, 2013)

the sherwood site shows that the amount of starch it contains is TONS lower than in your average food, though, so it's still less carbs


----------



## JBun (Jan 5, 2013)

I'm not sure that sherwood really does ship out of the US, or maybe it just depends on the country. I just know at one point we were telling someone in Canada, that they shipped there, then she tried to order some and they had to cancel her order cause they couldn't ship there. I think you would have to contact them to know for sure if it was possible.

I just mentioned the walmart food as it might actually be something that would possibly be available in the Philippines, and would be better than the vitakraft stuff.


----------



## kkiddle (Jan 5, 2013)

Sorry, Vitakraft, but I would never feed your products to my rabbits. First, it isn't broken down in age groups. Is this for adults or babies? Secondly, it is full of things that should be controlled by the rabbit's humans. My rabbits are pretty smart and would just eat the treats you supply in your food. There isn't enough fiber to justify feeding that much junk.

Even your product description agrees with me: "...and the food contains oats, grains, vegetables, fruits and more for an appetizing flavor that will keep your rabbit jumping for joy." 

Another suggestion (not sure if it was already mentioned) is Oxbow. I have been using them since I first got Cheeto, and the rescue I got him at uses it for ALL their rabbits. It is more expensive than the pet-store foods like Vitakraft, but it has all the nutrients and is separated by adult/baby. Check out wag.com. I buy my food there in 10lb bags (usually 3-4 at a time as shipping is free when $50.00 is spent). If you're a first-time customer, you get something like 15% off.

Here's the link: http://www.wag.com/smallanimal/p/oxbow-essentials-bunny-basics-adult-rabbit-food-timothy-hay-117334


----------

