# Possible Hay Substitute?



## Butterfinger (Dec 27, 2006)

I've said this before (I think), but when I goto college next fall, I'm bringing Butter with me, as the apartmentsthe College houses students in (And the College rules) allows smallcaged animals..... This isn't an issue.. 
But Butter is an outside rabbit, and has been all his life. I've also kept his hay outside. 
The problem is.....I'm allergic to hay, and I'm afraid that having hayin a small apartment with me inside would turn out verybadly. 
I don't have a problem with the pellets I give him, even though theyhave hay in them, because there's not.....random fluffy hay bits/dustflying in the air everywhere. 
Is it possible for Butter to stay healthy if I just feed him the pellets, or does he ABSOLUTELY need the hay? 
Maybe substitution with veggies is possible? 
 I just don't want him to be unhealthy because I'm allergic to hay...... 
If he really REALLY needs it, I can visit the doctor and experimentwith different allergy medication, but that kind of thing is expensiveand I'd like it to be a last option.... 
(But not THE last option. I'm definitely still taking Butterwith me, no matter what. I won't leave my baby all alone withmy parents, one of which is allergic to him and won't even pet him :? )


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## naturestee (Dec 27, 2006)

How allergic are you? I get decentlystrong nasal and eye problems from hay but I've been keeping indoorrabbits for nearly two years now. I take meds- Claritin and aprescription nasal med. I also have an air purifier in mybedroom. What helped the most was buying hay inbulk. Those little bags from pet stores are insanelydusty! I felt so much better when I started ordering 20 lband 50 lb boxes of hay from Oxbow. The farmer hay I have nowis pretty good too.

I've been told that certain types of hay bother allergies less, so itmight be a good idea to try different types. Orchard grass issupposed to be relatively good with allergic humans.

If you do end up with dusty hay, do you have a friend who could take it outside and shake it out for you?

It really is best for him to have hay. If it does cause majorhealth problems, you could use timothy cubes but they won't wear downthe teeth the same. If you do that, also make sure that hehas high fiber pellets like Oxbow BB/T because he might eat less of thecubes than he would of loose hay (harder to eat).


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## Butterfinger (Dec 27, 2006)

Actually, Oxbow's BB/Tis what he's been on his whole life 
And .....I've taken Claritin before......but non-perscription drugsjust don't seem to have any effect on me :? It's weird;Sudafed, Tylonol, Claritin, Ibuprofen (I can't spell any of thesethings, but you get what I mean, right?)....I take the highest dosereccomended, with their super duper extra-strength medicine....and thennothing happens. Ah well. 
I'm not entirely sure how allergic I am to it, since I've never beeninside a closed room with it for any period of time, but I get therunny/itchy eyes, runny nose, sneezing, and general ickiness when Icome back inside from handling it outside, so....Maybe five times worsethan that, if it's in an enclosed room with little circulation?
Wow, fifty pounds? :shock: How much hay ISthat?(And where would I put it? They're making mehave a room-mate, too, so it's not like I'll have a ton of space forstoring extra things) 
And....is just wearing down his teeth the main concern? Notmajor dietary problems? Because he has lots of chew-things inhis cage right now that keep him pretty busy. I guess I couldtry the cubes, but I'm not really sure where to find them.... He's onbags of loose Timothy hay right now; as much as he wants.....and allover the place (In his hay rack, in his sitting-box, allover his floor.....all over him, hee hee) but that stuff isREALLY.....poofy.


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## Maureen Las (Dec 27, 2006)

They really need hay to keep their digestivesystems running smoothly. I am thinking that once you are already inschool and have made some friends that maybe your rabbit could livewith another student on the same floor...I don't mean right away butafter you've develloped relationships. If I was young enough to be incollege I would certainly make friends with a rabbit owner. Once you have friends you could make deals with peoplelike helping someone with a paper if they would help with your bunny orat least take out a bag of hay and shake all the dust out of it. Ithink that for awhile your bunny could do OK on greems and pellets (mydental problem bunny does) but in the long run they do need that extraroughage. Like naturestee said orchard grass may be less of an irritantand you could order that in an 18oz. bag from oxbow and try itout. If you are so allergic that your throat closes up thenyou really shouldn't play around with hay at all...don't know howsevere the allergy problem is...once you are in school you may be ableto find another place to store hay other than in your room


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## naturestee (Dec 27, 2006)

50 lbs is huge. 20 lbs is maybe a 2 ftlong box- it's actually a great size for bunnies to play in.Plus you're actually saving money by buying in bulk because it's farless per pound than those little plastic bags. Another optionis to get a bale of good quality farmer hay, take what you can store,and donate the rest to a shelter. Since a bale is usuallylike $5 for 40 lbs or so, it's so cheap that it's still cost effectiveeven with donating half of it. Or you might be able to find ahorse stable that will sell it to you in smaller amounts. Anyof those options is usually far less dusty than the little plastic bagsof hay.

Teeth are a major concern with hay, although so is digestion.Even high fiber stuff like Oxbow isn't as good as long strand hay whichis why the cubes aren't quite as good for that. Some petstores carry timothy cubes, although they're not as common as alfalfacubes. Oxbow sells good timothy cubes, as does American PetDiner.

Claritin doesn't do anything for you? Can you get the prescription drugs that actually work for you then?


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## bluebird (Dec 27, 2006)

I rarely feed hay,if you are feeding a highquality pellet extra hay is not necessary.Many breeders do not feedextra hay.my sister feeds hay cubes theres less dust.bluebird


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## bluebird (Dec 27, 2006)

I thought i might add i have been raisingrabbits for over twenty years.for those who do not know me.I have hadrabbits since i was 5 years old and im not counting my childhoodpets.bluebird


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## JimD (Dec 27, 2006)

*naturestee wrote:*


> Teeth are a major concern with hay, although so isdigestion. Even high fiber stuff like Oxbow isn't as good aslong strand hay which is why the cubes aren't quite as good forthat. Some pet stores carry timothy cubes, although they'renot as common as alfalfa cubes. Oxbow sells good timothycubes, as does American Pet Diner.



Long strands are important... as is the silicate contained in the hay.

Benji gets runny eyes from dust...especially hay dust. He's sometimesokay if he gets "top-of-the-bag", butabout half of his hayintake is from cubes. I buy Kaytee Timothy Cubes for about $4 for a onepound package.

I bought a 50# boxof Oxbow for about $60 including shipping charges. 
Even the Oxbow hay in bulk can be dusty and can contain brown hay thatthe buns won't eat, but it costs me about half of the pet store price.

~Jim


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## JimD (Dec 27, 2006)

*bluebird wrote: *


> Irarely feed hay,if you are feeding a high quality pellet extra hay isnot necessary.Many breeders do not feed extra hay.my sister feeds haycubes theres less dust.bluebird


:yeahthat


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## Butterfinger (Dec 27, 2006)

Wow, thanks for all the replies, guys 
I'm kind of getting mixed answers, though.... 
'Yes, I should definately give him hay, even to the point where Ishould give him to someone else who can' (Not entirely sure if Iunderstood that one quite right)
and 'I don't need hay if my pellets are high-quality (Which they are)' ......
Okay :?
I didn't want to mention this because I thought you guys might yell atme, but before Butter, we had two dutch girls, and we feed them on justthe pellets for pretty much their whole lives....(Clover diedof pnemonia; not really having anything to do with her diet, andBlackberry was healthy her whole life and died at the ripe old age oftwelve)....And before them, we had two male angoras, andbefore them~ we had my first rabbit, a white Holland Lop. (Ican't remember what we fed the earlier ones, though, because I wasmaybe four or five years old) 
So....yeah.


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## maherwoman (Dec 27, 2006)

Hmm...that's an interesting thought...I had noidea they could survive just fine without hay! (I'm tooparanoid to try it, myself...old habits die hard! Wait, I'veonly had them about a year...hmm...)

Anyway, I agree that the hay cubes would be an excellent alternative, if it's the dust you're allergic to. 

As far as getting different opinions, that'll happen, mostly becauseevery bun is different. I would suggest the above as the bestalternative, at least to try out, mostly because your bun is used tohaving hay in her diet. It's never great to switch things uptoo much on a bun's diet. 

Let us know how things go!


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## Butterfinger (Dec 27, 2006)

I'll probably try the hay cubes, even if only tovery gradually shift hay out of his dietto see how hedoes. (If there's any problems, though; right back tohay) He does get a LOT of pellets for his size.(The bag reccomended 1/3 of a cup for a six-pound rabbit, and he gets awhole cup....but only because I tried giving him 1/3 c for a while, buthe was REALLY hungry during that time, and was starting to lose weight,even with his hay, so back to a cup it was )


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## Maureen Las (Dec 27, 2006)

Actually this sub ject is confusing. Ideallythey do better with long-strand hay, however when I had my first bunnyshe never ate hay as I did not know that it was such poor quality thatit was unappetizing to her..she lived a long life on pellets and a fewveggies. I think that all of us strive towards the ideal diet for ourrabbits but maybe it doesn't mean that they can't live a healthy lifewithout everything.


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## MyBabyBunnies (Dec 27, 2006)

Ideally hay should be fed and it is a very good idea to feed it but it is not necessary. Many breeders do not feed hay at all.

As long as they are getting a good high fiber pellet and plenty of highfiber foods (eg, canned pumpkin is always a good one to use) then therabbit can do well without hay. They do need a lot of chew toys then tokeep their teeth trim since the hay helps with that.

And hay cubes are always a good idea as well. Not necessarily every daybut as a suppliment every few days it can be a very good idea.

Unfortunately, without hay added to thediet, extraprecautions need to be taken like regular brushings especially whileshedding and so on but a rabbit can be happy and healthy withut hay.Keep in mind that if your rabbit is a huge hay eater, they will requirean increase in pellets to maintain weight.


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## pamnock (Dec 27, 2006)

Hay isn't necessary. Veggies and limited fruits will provide needed fiber along with the pellets.

Pam


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