# Our Clan...now & always..



## Orchid (Nov 10, 2009)

Lest we forget, which we never will...we began our bun clan with Simon...He was awesome...and we will always miss him.

Hisblog link is:

http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=33234&forum_id=6

And though Isobel was only with us for a short time,...we cared for her as well and so her short time with us is marked here...

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=51103&forum_id=6&jump_to=690836#p690836

and so now we begin again...and this will be a running blog of our lives, our lives with our buns, our memories, feeling and funnies! May it be long and never end...

And so now....We welcome Dougal....into our family. Born September 4 2009. He has his pretty papers which means he can indeed be shown. He does need to get his mark in his left ear however. We bought him from our local breederSarah of THE BUNNY HUT...

We brought him home, November 8th 2009...I started getting licked yesterday already. He likes peeing in every corner..so now he has litter pans in every corner. We started with a dog pen, but it was so old and rusty, small...that I created a nice sized NIC...nothing overly fancy that I thought would hold him quite well while he grows. He turned 9 weeks old today.

We can already see he is going to be a wonderful boy to have with us...my daughter and I are both so very excited to have him here with us...

I thank, Tinysmom and Bluegiants for all the support they have lent to us over the last few weeks...making some hard choices and dealing with me,..a nervous nelly over every thing 

There is so much to say and so much to share, but now is not the time....He has had a bit of an upset tummy and we are working on resolving this issue.


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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Nov 10, 2009)

Michelle, I'm happy you were able to find a new bunny to bring into your home. I hope you will share photo's soon.


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## Fancy77 (Nov 11, 2009)

SO I say a post by u then I saw a new bunny in the avatar. TBH I was thinking u were a new member. I did some checking and that lead me here. Well now all I have to say is I am glad all is working out for u.

I also would LOVE to see pics!!! I am so glad you have gotten a Flemish u will not b disappointed... I love his ears in the avatar he is so adorable...congrats!!!


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## TinysMom (Nov 11, 2009)

I still can't believe he's licking you this soon....gotta admit I'm a tiny bit jealous.

I'm so happy you have him and look forward to lots of stories about him.


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## Orchid (Nov 11, 2009)

Well..thank you everyone! and yeah I was so super surprised he licked!!!

He was running around at 6am this morning..and sleeping-ish now...but seeing tons and tons of his cecals...everywhere...I hate this....

But I know everything will be A OK....


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## Orchid (Nov 11, 2009)

We brought Dougal home on Sunday and everything was ok and all very very exciting...but small problems started occuring...

and now...

Now I am pretty scared...and I hate this...

His interest in his pellets, hay, and now it seems like his water are decreasing...the poops are getting stuck in everything and actually smell bad now.

We are going now to get a weight on him..and pick up some pedialyte.

Following the advice of some great people...

Breeder did say he was treated for cocci...already..

So I guess I am asking...for everyone to please pray for him...think good thoughts...

I do not think we could take losing him too..this quick...all too much..


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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Nov 11, 2009)

ray: I'll be keeping Dougal in my thoughts


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## Fancy77 (Nov 11, 2009)

Sending positive thoughts your way huni!!!


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## TinysMom (Nov 12, 2009)

I thought I'd add here that I got off the phone w/ Michelle a bit ago and he seems to be doing better at this time. If I remember right he was trying to groom himself (and wobbling as he did so) - and he was drinking a lot - and even showing her his back because she had the audacity to MAKE him have critical care from a syringe.

He had some poops too but they were irregular and stuff -so we're hoping and praying for GOOD poops!


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## Orchid (Nov 12, 2009)

http://parenting.ivillage.com/tp/tphealth/0,,3q6m,00.html

I found this helpful this evening as I was trying to figure out stuff 

Nonetheless, I will certainly take your advice and supply a conversion chart. But before I do let me help you with your conversion:
6cc's = 6ml's = 1 1/5 tsp's
As you can see, it will be a bit difficult to measure out 1/5 of a teaspoon. Therefore, I suggest you obtain an accurate metric measuring device and use the cc's.

cc's stands for cubic centimeters.
ml's stands for milliliters
One cc = one ml They are equivalent.
One teaspoon = 5 cc = 5 ml
One Tablespoon (Tbl) = 15 cc = 15 ml
One Tablespoon = 3 teaspoons
One ounce = 30 cc = 30 ml = 2 Tablespoons = 6 teaspoons
8 ounces (The common size for a formula bottle) = 240 cc = 240 ml


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## Orchid (Nov 12, 2009)

Thank you...for your thoughts and well wishes...and to Peg for listening to me complain and much more..lol

Dougal likes oats...his breeder said try some...so we did. Wonderful woman...she really cares and is upset he is under the weather....called the other buns from his litter to see if anyone else was having problems...just us...I am hoping it was stress is all...
Weebles wobble...he wobbled lol...trying to clean his ears..

I am feeling better about things...I am going to be watching closely...he will be going to the vet on Friday...but I feel that everything will settle down..

and can you believe my 9 week old baby is only 4.3 pounds!!


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## Fancy77 (Nov 12, 2009)

I have been so worried, I am happy to heat that things are looking up for you both


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## Orchid (Nov 12, 2009)

Well...what the night brung...

A bunny who fell asleep sitting net to me on my bed...A woman waking up with a start for no reason I can recall a little before 9am... 

I woke to a bunny flopped over my feet..my blankets dug up onto the bed and cecals, here there and every where....kept trying to move him onto the towel I left on my bed for him to sleep on...um...yeah...he didnt want to sleep there, flop there ...and actually kept going back over to my feet and throwing himself on top of them, till I guess he got annoyed enough with me...and went away to the box...

I have the impression that at some point Dougal, tried or actually was able to dig up my blankets and lay next to me by my legs. I had cecals under the sheets...FUN!

I found some cecals here and there...very few poos..actual poos...I found a couple of pee spots, lord love him, NOT on my bed!! 

The pellets I laid down he really did not touch...loved the oats..and will pick through the pumpkin or pellets..to eat every last one.

I decided to go ahead and give the C.C. again this morning at like 9:30am my time...He likes it well enough and ate all of it really without issue...lifting his head to try to get more out of the syringe etc..
Gave him the Bene bac...the gas drops...
It does not look to me, like he really ate any of his hay over the night...

I did however find that cecals were smushed into his belly and butt fur...I used a wire brush to get them out...wasnt too bad of a fight...and the crusted over chin of his from last nights feeding.

He is mad at me...I have been bitten a few times this morning and man those baby nails are like frikin little daggers...my hands are scratched up...

He likes the box I gave him...and he will spend a lot of time in there...flopped out against the side of it,...
He is currently ignoring me by hiding in there and looked at me,...like...you dare touch me and you will lose a finger...when I peeked in his box...
lol

I ended up taking the day off, even though I wasnt going to...to stay with him...Lina gave me a great excuse by not feeling her best anyway...

This time tomorrow I will be driving us back to the vet...


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## Orchid (Nov 12, 2009)

Well...he is super ticked off at me...I suppose he will be even more so in a couple of hours when we feed all over again. He is still ignoring his pellets, barely nibbles at the hay...Gave him some oat hay...same story.

So we all sorta napped after this morning..Lina stayed up but snuggled in here, in my bed. She said he never left his box..
I have since removed the box...hoping it would encourage him to move about..and it did for a moment or two...he shifted shelves and is now on the lower one...
Which I have been thinking of taking out completely as he pees all over it and not even in the corners...and only this shelf..
No new poops really..a few scattered tiny tiny ones..

I just do not get it...I am looking foward to seeing the vet tomorrow..maybe they will have a better answer what is going on with him..

Still concerned...but not is a terrified way....

On a different note...while I do not think it will stop Dougal if he wants to do something..I have tried to create runways of carpet and shoo him off the hard wood when he goes on it...to sort of "pen" himself..how Isobel did...
It is working so far...Even with the choice, he is not wandering onto the hardwood...


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## TinysMom (Nov 12, 2009)

You'll both make it through this and you'll be getting licks again in no time. He just wants to be boss and has to learn that you're the boss and not him.


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## Orchid (Nov 12, 2009)

i am typing one handed so excuse the typos



Dougal was laying in his litter pan when 4:30 came....grabbed him up anf fed 30cc of the C.C. to him...he fought me some...

When all was done...he walked around pushing my hands and legs but not for pets...felt more like a get away woman ..nudge,,...

Since...that he has curled up on my chest, held in a towel.....and does not seem to care about anything...I have been sneezing and blowing my nose..he doesnt even flinch...at one point he was sitting strange with his ears straight down his back...

He has stopped eating oats, pellets, and the hay now it seems too...

I can hear him nashing his teeth...he is right next to my ear...

I hear tummy noises, but nothing that sounds alarming..

poop an pee ??

His skin/fur tell me he is hydrated for the moment...

His eyes are closed.,..he doesnt seem to want to move...

and of course right when I typed that he got up walked around to my legs and did a dead bunny flop right against my thigh...



I do not know what he wants from me...I am just running with it...

I will be glad for tomorrow to come quickly...and see the vet...


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## Orchid (Nov 12, 2009)

If rabbits are supposed to be good luck...I think I must be their bad luck...

Why does something always go wrong when I get a bun?


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## Fancy77 (Nov 12, 2009)

*Orchid wrote: *


> If rabbits are supposed to be good luck...I think I must be their bad luck...
> 
> Why does something always go wrong when I get a bun?



U need a (((HUGE HUG))) :hug:


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## Orchid (Nov 12, 2009)

update..

The breeder I bought him from...I think she is awesome..she is such a nice woman, and so concerned about Dougal..it warms my heart...

Dougal has stopped eating, drinking and munching hay..
He is pretty much up my tush to be near me at all times...

Though he does not strike me as in pain...his stomach does feel...round and tight if that makes sense..and it bothers him when I try to touch...


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## Orchid (Nov 13, 2009)

My evil plan of attack failed...

sigh...

ok...so tonight I made Dougal come out of my room and spend time with us in the living room...he was glued to me...and at one point when I said enough (as I was trying to eat my dinner) he huffed away and went into his/my/our bedroom and laid down in his litter pan...fine...

He has indeed been peeing all over the lower shelf...and so I did remove it...now there sits this LONG litter pan where the shelf was...he can however get back up to the second level as I left a "step"....

Decided to take a bath..and dumped some more hay into his pans..I sorta shoved it in his face in a hope that he would get annoyed and go to move it and in doing so decide to eat it...it worked and it didnt...He checked out and munched a bit of the organic meadow hay and ignored the timothy...ok...least he nibbled...
All poop seems to have ceased...cecals and all...I see nothing..that scares me...
Had a thought as I cleaned a litter pan...could he have ingested some of the yesterday news litter? If so, what exactly could it do...it is something I thought of to ask the vet today...when we go in 9 hours...

I fed him at 4:30 and again at 12:30am...but I dropped 30ml to 10ml...
If I am feeding him and pushing fluids...why would he need to bother to do it for himself..I am hoping he will get hungry enough to take a look at least at the buffet he has laying around...
After I gave the 10ml of CC..which smells like warmed up apples...I thought..what if I take his pellets, drop warm water onto them making them soft...sprinkly the Critical Care on top..since he seems to like it so very much..and maybe like trick him into eating it..getting him to think it is the same thing...as he did look like he wanted more then what I gave him..
He took one sniff...ONE...and walked away...BRAT!
He proceeded to lay out all over my bed as if it was put here for the sole purpose for his comfort...
I still cant help to smile..

I have towels covering my blankets because I know at some point he will come back onto the bed..when he thinks I am sleeping he creeps up here...lol

I think I will try to work on getting some pictures of him listed in here....


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## Orchid (Nov 13, 2009)

Our Sunday Trip to Meet Dougal;


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## Orchid (Nov 13, 2009)

His first exploring trip...

He liked the castle at first and now...eh


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## Orchid (Nov 13, 2009)

There is more..but I am rather tired...being 1:30 in the morning now...and even more on my camera I have yet to pull...

Dougal...started munching his hay again...I have noticed he by passes the greener ones and goes for, lighter colored pieces....


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## TinysMom (Nov 13, 2009)

I hereby claim him as MINE....at least in my heart....but I will share custody and let him live with you there...



Seriously - he's a cutie and I'm in love with him.


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## Orchid (Nov 13, 2009)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> I hereby claim him as MINE....at least in my heart....but I will share custody and let him live with you there...
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously - he's a cutie and I'm in love with him.


lol...thank you...he really is a darling...when he isnt mad...or being a butt head


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## Orchid (Nov 13, 2009)

9am...

Went to sleep late....after feeding the baby boy..and messing around here on RO...

I randomly slightly woke up here and there when would feel Dougal throw himself against my thighs...It would seem he loves to lay at the end of the bed by my feet or legs...Any time I would open my eyes he was there...

Alarm goes off...Scares the crap out of him...and he takes off like he can fly...I felt bad...

So I sit up and put my hand down....um...ICK...Well the cecals have returned....lots of little piles here and there...but this one I stuck my hand in...I do not know what it was, but pure mush and nasty smelling...FUN ...I was pretty glad I had beach towels spread out all over my bed...even though he did actually pee on my blankets last night....so now I have an naked bed while everything washes...

Dougal never did eat any of that mix I tried for him...or even the plain pellets...

This morning though he spent a little time eating his hay...the organic meadow one....and I did see him drinking..

Oddly ...there are no regular poops...where the heck are they? If there are cecals I would assume he is not blocked? so why is he not pooping anything else at all?

He was do for a feeding about an hour ago...but I have let it come and go without feeding him..It seemed to me he started liking it too much...I didnt even have to hold him last time...he chased me onto the bed when he smelled it and sat there pretty as you please eating and reaching for the syringe....and looking for more when it was gone....hmmm....

Dumped all the pellets that were out...oats too...and put down a small bit of fresh pellets.. Got his carrier ready...put a blanket in it and some hay...he has walked on it, over it, in it a few times checking things out...but being a good boy for the most part....

Would seem since I took down the low shelf...he will not go on the higher shelf...

I suppose that is all for now...
 
1 hour 15 minutes till we go to the vet...or rather are being seen by the vet...

I picked out an appointment with Dr. Eckerman-Ross this time...I like Dr. Leonetti, but....she is new and has les exp...I think I would feel better with a doc who has been doing this along while...the girl told me, Dr. Eckerman has a faithful following of rabbit owners...so I said lets go with her...

Promised to call the Breeder..Sarah when we leave to let her know what ever I can find out...

_random_

My ears are bothering me, I feel so tired, congested...allergies...the hay...ARG...


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## TinysMom (Nov 13, 2009)

I hope Michelle doesn't mind me sharing - she's at the vet now - but he's lost a pound since Wednesday...this is very serious whatever it is..


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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Nov 13, 2009)

I hope Dougal gets better soon. He's such a handsome guy.


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## TinysMom (Nov 13, 2009)

They did a fecal test - his showed lots of cocci in his system...she's getting meds and stuff...

I'll let her share more later.


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## kahlin (Nov 13, 2009)

Sorry that you are struggling. I went through something similar with one of my bunnies when I first got her. She pulled through, so there is hope. 

I know it seems that bunnies are bad luck sometimes (I have said before I'm their grim reaper), but they are worth it too. I hope you are seeing improvements already.


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## Orchid (Nov 13, 2009)

Well lets see if I can update correctly 

First thanks to everyone for your support...
I bought this little sign for my daughter when she was going through a hard time..it says...watch for angels, for they are every where in your life...

Today I think I found that,..that ...is very very true...Real life angels all over the world..Gives me faith in the human race again..

Now on to Dougal...
My poor boy!!! He was 4.3lbs on Wed at 5:30 pm, by Friday at 10:30am he is now..3.54
That scared the crap out me...
Then the doc comes in talking about a doughy tummy, wants to keep him and do all sorts of stuff talking over 400 bucks...my heart drops thinking I just cant do that!
Fecal comes back and she says it is filled,...LOADED with cocci...I asked if they would allow the subQ fluids to come home with me and let me do it, as that would be much cheaper then letting him stay there...an 80 dollar difference...
If I had all the money in the world I would have done everything and anything they wanted..but I have to live in real life...even when it is scary as death...

So push comes to shove and what we have is a little boy off his food and hay, has some GI Stasis going on, with concern about toxic build ups, and what the Cocci is doing to him...
What is coming out...no form to it at all now...
They treated him with everything about noon...and sent us on our way...
He is getting CC every 4 hours until he starts eating on his own again.
1 gram of bene bac, 1 gram of bio sponge every day.
40ml of Sodium Chloride Fluid two times a day.
0.8 of Albon every day
and for pain, Meloxicam 0.2 once a day.
and pedialyte....

He ate 40cc of CC earlier..stayed with me for a time huddled and sleeping I suppose, in a blanket for awhile, right next to me..so I kicked on the TV as I could not move and what was on?? Howard the Duck..Holy crap...is that one old...Could not believe my eyes lol...

So my daughter comes home and I explain what is going on, what needs to be done and what I expect of her...of course she gets upset and says she does not want him to die..neither do I, I said to her...
She has been helping to get things done, clean and disinfect. 

He jumped down after a bit, right before I got a call lol..and went to sit in the corner...where he seemed to be pushing his butt into the corner panel of his cage..
:cry4::dunno

He is still ignoring his food dish and water bowl...but eats a piece of hay every once in a while..
We feed again at 8 )2 hours away) and do the SubQ at 9..

He has gone through a lot and his body is going through a lot and I hope that is all there is to his behaviors now...
Looking forward to seeing him feel better and perhaps share a binky and a kiss with me again..

Decided I much preferred Dr. Eckerman-Ross' style over Dr. Leonetti...


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## kahlin (Nov 13, 2009)

The CC feeding takes its toll on a bunny parent, so I hope it goes well. I was an emotional wreck with Finley...lack of sleep, lots of stress. Not fun times.

I'll be thinking of you.


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## BlueGiants (Nov 13, 2009)

You are doing everything you possibly can for him! You are wonderful. I'm keeping my fingers and toes crossed for him. I think he'll pull through fine. I hate when they lose weight so fast! 

:hug: Thinking of you, Angelina and Dougal... I hope you see great improvement by the morning.


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## Orchid (Nov 13, 2009)

That...that ....could just possibly drive me to smoke again..
I am shaking like a leaf...my nerves are shot..I think I will need a darn tranq myself to get through that again and my GOD WE HAVE 6 MORE DAYS!! TWICE A DAY!!
Of the subQ to go....

I can handle the meds, I can handle the feeding, clipping nails...hell..honestly I can really handle most anything..but see this,...this is EXACTLY why I mess up..this is why I could not go further, but then again I did not give myself enough of a chance...

I personally HATE needles...sticking animals with them terrifies me more then getting myself stuck with one!!!

The place I worked at...the tech would try to teach us...OMG....trying to draw blood from a tiny kittens neck...couldnt do it..just could NOT do it..fear....fear of messing up, what happens when the animals move...

AND ******* & ******** & ********* DOUGAL MOVED....A LOT

I am so afraid I messed up doing this...I thought I could...I KNOW I HAVE TO...but my god the stress on him and me will kill us both...
I know I am supposed to stay calm, but man it IS NOT going to happen when he is fighting me and trying to hop away and he has a freaking needle in his neck...

Fate..see it all has a purpose..this is why I didnt finish tech school...because I would never have been able to get through this crap and be a real tech...

I pray to God...PLEASE...please let me not have hurt him and made everything worse...please let this go better next time...please!

He looks to wiped out...laying on his side...and lord I am about to cry...god I think I screwed up....He ran away and went to his litter pan...and laid down,,...and went to his side....((((((((((((((((((SCREAMS))))))))))))))))))))


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## Orchid (Nov 13, 2009)

If we actually make it through this...I honestly think he just might hate me forever...


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## TinysMom (Nov 13, 2009)

You'll make it through this.....I know needles are horrid to work with...but once you and he both get used to it - the sub-q goes much easier. The first time is always the hardest.


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## BlueGiants (Nov 13, 2009)

You are a lot stronger than you think. You know it is for his own good... All parents have to make decision for their kids, that their kids don't like... but it is what's best for them. You will get through this. 

I would guess that a lot of Dougals reaction is his perception of your emotions. If you are nervous and uptight, he can sense that and he is reacting to you. If you can stay calm and be at peace (because you KNOW what's best for him) when you give him the fluids, he may stay calmer.


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## kahlin (Nov 13, 2009)

SubQ fluids are hard. It's usually something I'd have my husband do, but once I had to do it to Finley and it was tough....but more so on me emotionally. It does get easier.

I'm sure he won't hate you forever. You're doing everything you can for him. He'll know that and love you that much more for it.


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## Orchid (Nov 14, 2009)

You guys are awesome! Thank you for your words and kind thoughts!


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## Orchid (Nov 14, 2009)

So last night I was nothing but a puddle of shaking nerves after everything was said and done...I fell asleep before midnight came so he missed out on that feeding...I also over slept and did not get up until 9am...

I was just so exhausted...I woke up though to the sound of chewing....

Dougal was running around his cage, munching on hays...peeing all over the place...like standing in the litter pans but hanging his rear over the edge and I swear it looked like on purpose...All 3 corners of the cage he will pee in, even off the shelves.....Been thinking what will he do if I make his cage into a circle AH HA! But any way...

He seemed so much better that I just sat here watching him for a bit wondering if I should feed the CC and give the SubQ...but I realised that though he is feeling better, he is not all better...and he also was not eating those pellets still...So against my protesting nerves...sigh....I went ahead and made up the CC, 20ml....gave the bio sponge...which FYI is HARD as heck to get out of the tube! Gave the Bene Bac, Gas drops just in case...and backed off for a few...Then gave the pain meds and waited a bit before I went ahead with another round of the SubQ....

Now see I know from working in an animal hospital you do not want to reuse a needle over and over because every time you puncture...it gets a little more dull.

Now if only Dougal understood that!!!!!

He fought me every step of the way this morning...feeding, meds...and with the subQ he was worse then yesterday and while I was not calm..I was calmer!

I think I had to poke him...lord...4-5 times at least. I managed to hold onto him during the end and even though I was worried I might be hurting him I could see no other way to hold him and get the fluids in...Well we got it done!

Now he has this little white crock he likes to drink from...it was actually meant for creme burle or however you spell it...it was bone dry this morning...it is maybe a cup total. He has oat in the rack, orchard in the small pan, timothy on the blanket, orangic meadow in the big pan...I have seen him munch on all but the orchard today...and I swear I hear what sounds like farts coming out of him..(His rear smells something awful!!)

His ears are up today..he is way more active...biting us etc..

I clipped his nails last night because I couldnt take it anymore...I was getting scratched all to hell...him and his baby daggers...There was barely anything to cut and though I tried to be careful I snipped one toenail too far...He bit me for that and well yeah I know it hurt 

He has been biting more...just bit Angelina for picking poop up out of his cage...

He is grooming...and like taking a drink and what looks like licking his butt...taking a drink, repeat...he does look a bit frazzled...The sub Q did get all over his back...and while I know he is not getting all of the 40cc's...he is getting most of it,...

I would hate to say we are out of the woods and have something go wrong....but really that is what my gut is telling me...

I am seeing poops of all sorts now...and no cecals...go figure.

He still has smush...but he has solids coming now as well...

It felt like forever before everything was cleaned up...lord I do not know I am gonna do ALL of this every morning and get her off to school and me to work on time...I think I might have to get up like 2 hours earlier...((cries))

My x husband is showing concern over Dougal. I had to speak to him this morning and he asked without me saying anything...how was he doing. (My daughter totaly guilted him last night over everything)...lol

Well I do have to be running...but I have some more pictures I would like to show...I will see if I can get them up quickly..

and while I have gone over and read a lot about potty training...ideas are welcome again...no matter where it is...if it is a corner..he pees in it...and yeah I put the bigger pans in with the higher sides and he is still raising his butt over the edge...


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## Orchid (Nov 14, 2009)

Oats are YUMMY






What? I didnt do it!






You dare take my picture you lowly human!!






THIS! Is my bed...






Awww mom...but I like it here!






Fine,...I'll get down 






MEANIE!






NO! I am not going to talk to you...sniff...






You actually put me in a strawberry shortcake towel? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND!






I like the couch!






I sit where ever mom was sitting....hahahahaha






I CLAIM THIS....DOUGAL LAND! MINE!






No, really...I am KING HERE!






Can't make me!!!






I will go anywhere I want to, but NOT where YOU want me to...






NO!!!






Sigh...but ,...well...FINE






If it will make you smile....






HELLO! HELLO TO MY PERSONAL ANGEL!!!!






DO I MESS WITH YOUR FEET WOMAN!!!






Well..at least you hid cinderellas face...how embarressing..






Ha...I will pee here! THIS IS MINE! STAY OUT!






Leave me alone man...my pain meds are kicking in...Oh yeah...


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## kahlin (Nov 14, 2009)

Have you tried offering some of the CC in it's dish on it's own? Some bunnies will eat it that way and prefer it to pellets.

It sounds like you are making improvements. Sure him biting isn't good, but I wouldn't be super concerned at this point. He's probably pretty cranky. 

Are you using the corner/triangle litter pans? While I like that they are high in the back, Behr would just pee over the front anyway. I use deep cat litterboxes.

When he misses (intentionally), I wipe it up with paper towel, toilet paper (whatever) and put it in his box. He's gotten quite a bit better - although he is also fixed.


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## Orchid (Nov 14, 2009)

*kahlin wrote: *


> Have you tried offering some of the CC in it's dish on it's own? Some bunnies will eat it that way and prefer it to pellets.
> 
> It sounds like you are making improvements. Sure him biting isn't good, but I wouldn't be super concerned at this point. He's probably pretty cranky.
> 
> ...



Yeah..I have tried to trick him in many ways...he isnt having it...

I use kitty pans...all sizes shapes, lengths, heights etc..., no corner pans...didnt see the point in buying any when he will out grow whatever I could buy fast..

Again though he is only 9 weeks old...I do not expect miracles...but I swear I really think he is doing it on purpose...cause he was on my bed...jumped into the tiny pan, peed without going over the edge and hopped back out....So I think he gets it...ya know..


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## TinysMom (Nov 14, 2009)

Oh - I LOVE LOVE LOVE all of those photos...there are a couple that I love more than the others - like the one where he talks about how dare you take his photo...but he is SOOOO photogenic...

I'm so happy he's feeling better!


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## kahlin (Nov 14, 2009)

Just seeing the pictures now. Cute. Thanks for sharing.

He's eating oats but not his pellets? Are they the same kind of pellets he had before you got him? (just throwing out some ideas).

For feeding CC, I find it easier to roll the bunny up into a burrito, and position him/her between my right arm (I'm right handed) and the side of my body. I keep his/her head around my shoulder, with the bum angled down towards my lower back and the floor. I know Dougal is a bit bigger than what I'm used to though, so I'm not sure it would work. We're all different though. Again, just throwing stuff out there.


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## kahlin (Nov 14, 2009)

I think we were posting close together which is why I didn't see the pictures - which would have answered my question about the litterboxes! Oops. 

I believe I use a size up from what you've got. I don't need to with Finley, but Behr likes to go really high or something. He's a silly one.


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## kahlin (Nov 14, 2009)

And I know what you mean by being exhausted. It's so hard to care for a sick bun. I was lucky that when Finley got sick I was at my mom's and she did the first morning feeding. I don't think she ever got much in (less experienced) but it was nice break.

I was so tired I was weepy all of the time. I hope things continue to improve so you can get some rest.


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## BlueGiants (Nov 14, 2009)

Keep up the good work! He's coming around! Pellets mixed with cecals is a good sign.. You'll know he's all better when the smell changes.

It's not the end of the world for him to miss a midnight feeding. As long as he is gettting fed during the day... it will keep his gut moving and that is the most important thing.


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## Orchid (Nov 14, 2009)

Well thanks all!!

I do have to say I love snapping shots of him! Though Angelina is the one who took all but like 2 of the pictures from that Sunday trip...all the ones where Sarah is holding him...Lina took those. She is pretty good honestly for an 8 year old...she loves taking pictures.

We ran out today..few errands...we were gone awhile...Got back in the door..and it did look like he had pushed his pellets around some...but his water looked untouched..

I am hearing VERY loud noises coming from him at random times. I have resumed the gas drops just in case..and while I am NO bun expert...his stomach seems too round, and out...

I fed him once again...got 30cc down with a fight...

I feed
http://www.mannapro.com/rabbit.htm

I wish I had been able to get the mana gro now though being he is go young, but they did not sell it anyway.
Random note...did you know a 50 pound bag of oxbow timothy pellets costs about 78 bucks 
The receptionist at the vet was promoted oxbow and trying to get me away from the dark side ya know...but...BA...
Tried the Brome hay with him...same result...nibble nibble..walk away.
Not a whole lot of poo since the first round of clean up this morning..but he is pooing..and that is what is important for the moment....
Those really are some seriously loud tummy noises...hmmm

I got the Albon down him...and was glad I decided to give it at different times, as it would seem...you are not supposed to give it WITH the bio Sponge..which may I add is impossible to give the way it is..you really need to measure it out and stick it in some CC or something...crap is like clay...and even though in his mouth...swallowing it? yeah....

I can see now just how not well he must have been feeling to, if he would not fight about anything...to see just how much a fuss he makes now...
24 hours...made a huge difference...

I put out a 1/4 cup of his pellets..So if he starts eating...I will have an idea how much he got down...

I am hoping he starts eating ok by tomorrow night...doing this and trying to work, get her to school and everything..way stressful...

He stays hidden on his shelf quite a bit now...I put up another cube to try to make him feel like...this is mine and I am safe here ya know...

I asked the vet to order one of those oxbow xtra large bunny huts....they said it would be like 30 bucks..but I thought what a nice all well present it will make..I wonder though how long would it last him...

I noticed and seriously thought...that all the items in the pets stores, and even the vets office are not geared or even close for a big bun like what Dougal should grow to be...I do not think it very fair to make all sorts of crap for little guys and not a whole lot for the big ones...I suppose I will have to get creative...

Have that headache behind my eyes again...I wonder if something is off my with script..(glasses)..

Need to go make dinner..

I have nothing to do tomorrow except take care of Lina and Dougal...feed and medicate everyone lol...and wait for EAST ENDERS! I wish it came on more like 9 and 9:30 though...
News said it is suppose to be nice tomorrow...sunny and all...

Question for Cathy and Peg...

At what point, with what SIGNS he would give me do you think it would be ok to stop the CC and SubQ?
I have seen him drink and nibble and even still he lost that much weight with in such a short time...
I am supposed to give the SubQ for 5 more days..and the CC till he eats on his own...how much does he need to be eating on his own to stop the CC?

(Kirby)...The Breeder had him on a bag that just said rabbit food..nothing with amounts or ingredients...So I switched since I didnt feel he needed to be on that..and I doubt I could locate here anyway...being that he will be such a big boy...I decided that the ManaPro was the best route to go...


(He is digging at Strawberry Shortcake Towel)...I think it offends him...LOL..
Poor boy living in a womans household...


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## BlueGiants (Nov 14, 2009)

You can stop the CC when you see him eat up all the 1/4 cup pellets and ask for more! Keep up the Albon... you're doing great!

As far as the woman at the vets trying to get you to feed a timothy based pellet... DON'T! He is not your average rabbit, the Flemish do not grow like other bunnies. When he is feeling better, he will gain weight at the rate of over apound a month... (RIGHT, PEG???? LOL!) They NEED the higher protein in an alfalfa based pellet. I free feed (all they want-on demand) all my Flemish a 16-17% protein, alfalfa based pellet until they are over 12 months of age. (Then I keep them on the same pellet, just may limit amounts or push more hay, based on weight and condition).

Hmmm... do you think the headache is from stress or lack of sleep???? :?


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## TinysMom (Nov 14, 2009)

Here is Nyx's version of "free-feeding" a flemish...


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## BlueGiants (Nov 14, 2009)

None of my kids would argue with her! :roflmao:


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## TinysMom (Nov 14, 2009)

First of all - you don't need the Manna Gro because that is more for a nursing mom and her litter. What you got is the same thing mine are eating (mixed in with other pellets) and they're doing just fine. 

I agree with Cathy as far as when to stop the critical care....once he's eating on his own and asking for more. As far as the fluids...that's a tougher call and I was hoping Cathy would answer it before me! 

I went to the drug dosage calculator I use and they said for a 5 pound rabbit (I put it in there high so I'd make sure he'd get enough fluids) - that he needs 138 ml (cc) of water per day total...

Now a cup is 236 ml.....so if he is drinking 1/2 cup or more of water PER DAY - then I'd say you could discontinue the fluids. 

As far as the Oxbow bunny hut - I have no idea what that is....sorry! Zeus has finally started using (and loving) his dog bed that we got him...as long as we're not around to see him using it that is...when we walk in - he hops out....or if I wake up and he's in it - he hops out quickly.

THe one thing I want to point out is that even though he's feeling miserable - you MUST correct him for biting you or Lina. That is NOT acceptable - even if he's sick. He needs to learn that now - while he's smaller...

Say "No" in a loud voice and push his head down lightly to make him submit. If a rabbit is really bad - I will LIGHTLY tap them on the nose with one finger as I say "no" and hold their head down a bit longer so they know how upset I am.

Trust me - you have to be the one in charge even now because when he hits 15 pounds or so - he needs to already see you as the boss.


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## TinysMom (Nov 14, 2009)

*BlueGiants wrote: *


> None of my kids would argue with her! :roflmao:


I am so glad that another breeder refers to her bunnies as "kids"....I'm not alone!


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## JadeIcing (Nov 14, 2009)

Just reading through. I HATE having to do medical stuff but it has to be done. Though my weirdest thing was ice pack on Gabriels umm privates.


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## Orchid (Nov 14, 2009)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> Just reading through. I HATE having to do medical stuff but it has to be done. Though my weirdest thing was ice pack on Gabriels umm privates.


That must have been..difficult...Can not imagine he sat still for that...


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## JadeIcing (Nov 14, 2009)

*Orchid wrote: *


> *JadeIcing wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Just reading through. I HATE having to do medical stuff but it has to be done. Though my weirdest thing was ice pack on Gabriels umm privates.
> ...


He did but he is such a good little guy. I think he knew if it wasn't for me he wouldn't be here.:biggrin2:


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## Orchid (Nov 14, 2009)

*BlueGiants wrote: *


> You can stop the CC when you see him eat up all the 1/4 cup pellets and ask for more! Keep up the Albon... you're doing great!
> 
> As far as the woman at the vets trying to get you to feed a timothy based pellet... DON'T! He is not your average rabbit, the Flemish do not grow like other bunnies. When he is feeling better, he will gain weight at the rate of over apound a month... (RIGHT, PEG???? LOL!) They NEED the higher protein in an alfalfa based pellet. I free feed (all they want-on demand) all my Flemish a 16-17% protein, alfalfa based pellet until they are over 12 months of age. (Then I keep them on the same pellet, just may limit amounts or push more hay, based on weight and condition).
> 
> Hmmm... do you think the headache is from stress or lack of sleep???? :?



Gotcha on the CC...

Oh I was not listening any how..they were trying to give me stuff for a full grown flemish...and I had to point out he is still a babe...(had a bit of extra money come my way via the x hub...and I went back to the vets this morning)...

I picked up more bene, critical care...and that was what clued me off...she was like, the apple only comes in this size and you need the large...I was like, um no I dont and he likes the apple so I do notcare what size it comes in...4oz for 12 bucks..ouch...Bene for 14...ouch...picked up 2 more bags of hay as well...we were there right? Buh bye money lol...

Anyway I didnt much care for the woman,...I called ahead, asked her what I needed to, spelled our name for her and said we were just there yesterday...and yet when I got there..she couldnt find my file or spell my name right...OKAAY!!!! She was telling me to take him off the Alfalfa at 6 months etc...I nodding nicely, smiled sweetly and waited to get all my crap and leave...People have good intentions..but do not always know what they are talking about...like I was told to give him a full gram of bene yesterday by the doc and the tech...today they had it printed, something like .25.....UM NO...I have actually considered calling the manager of the practice and mentioning that they should school their people to have the same general ideas, read the files that are right in front of them..and not talk about things they are not really exp. in....This woman...I was not impressed by...BUT I liked the doctor..and that is the important thing...

Anywho...

He has been fighting me harder to not eat the CC...but he is not eating enough pellets...but if I am filling him up on CC why would he eat? How does one walk that fine line?

I am dreading 9pm....du du du dum...SUBQ..no fun...seriously I think I need to take like 4 Klonopins before I try to give him fluids again...I HATE IT!

He has been sitting on his shelf...his butt pressed up to the wall...Have not seen him doing much of anything...brought him out and gave some more gas drops...those noises in the tummy are scaring me...They are so loud..like really loud...like I am 6 feet away and I am like WHAT...was that you? Tried to touch the tum, give a rub...he didnt like that...bit at me...bugger...but when I started petting him he started licking my sweater lol...

Angelina said she saw him at his pellets earlier...we are seeing more and more solid poos...some smushy stuff still..but not nasty smushy or smelly..


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## Orchid (Nov 14, 2009)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> First of all - you don't need the Manna Gro because that is more for a nursing mom and her litter. What you got is the same thing mine are eating (mixed in with other pellets) and they're doing just fine.
> 
> I agree with Cathy as far as when to stop the critical care....once he's eating on his own and asking for more. As far as the fluids...that's a tougher call and I was hoping Cathy would answer it before me!
> 
> ...



SCREAMS! I HATE HATE HATE when I lose my connection and everything I typed...

He has been eating from his dish so I think I am going to skip the 8pm feed...

One of the last things I had typed a minute ago was I wish I would see him eating more of his hay...and he just jumped into the litter pan and started munching...perhaps they can not just understand you when you speak..lmao

This is the Bun hut...

http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/products/type/detail?object=1593

I am giving 80cc of fluids per day...leaves him what...60 to make up on his own? I am hoping things perk up...

I hate having to fight him with all this...SO NOT FUN...and being 15 pounds...lord.

(He peed in the pan!)

He did this wiggle jiggle thing up on the shelf...he was drinking and grooming..which is funny cause he totters when he trys to clean his ears...anyway he did this thing that reminds me of a dog shaking off water and he has this cute poofy fluff tail..rather long..It was super cute! He bun flopped on the floor 

I have seen that sort of tude...like Zeus...when I am sleeping and catch him on my bed he dashes off my bed like it wasnt him, he wasnt there look lol...I think Dougal would like something cushy and snuggly like a foofy dog bed...seeing as how much he likes MY bed... 

Though he avoids it more then he wants to jump on it...cant blame the poor guy at this point...

I do tell him no firmly and push his head down when he bites me...I let him have at the blankets when he gets like that...but I have told Lina she needs to tell him a firm no and push his head down gently...I am afraid she could hurt him...and so I push for her doing the firm no...over anything else...yet I think a lot of this is the meds being pushed on him...Though I know he needs to learn..no matter what he cant bite..


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## Orchid (Nov 14, 2009)

just thought too...that chick from the vets office...told me to start feeding him greens and carrots and crap...
While I am all for him eating...um no...


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## TinysMom (Nov 14, 2009)

Oh I like the bungalow - with my luck - Nyx would get inside and get stuck though...


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## Orchid (Nov 14, 2009)

Well it is that time again...JOY!

I got every thing out, all ready to go and he starts eating his hay...so I think, I will wait till he stops...but he comes down to his pellets and starts eating those...and so I think...I will wait till he is done with those...but he goes and flops ever so cutely on the floor in the corner and I did not have the heart to grab him for the subQ....
I do not want him thinking any time we are around, or he comes down to eat his pellets or hay, hangs out on the floor that something bad will happen... 
Angelina is laying on the floor in his pen and he is sitting on her back sniffing her out..and looking up at me 

I have noticed he is rather clumsy on the whole...he will miss when he jumps, pretty much almost fall over when he cleans his ears..and some other stuff...I keep thinking it is cause he is a baby..but I do not recall Simon having such problems when he was a baby with us...

And he jumped in the pan to eat more hay!!

I am so freakin torn about how and when to handle this...

I want to encourage and not scare him to never come off his top shelf again...

Until I pulled out the needles and fluid...he had been just chillin on his shelf....


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## Orchid (Nov 14, 2009)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> Oh I like the bungalow - with my luck - Nyx would get inside and get stuck though...







Well on the positive side...she could always chew her way out...lmao...

I don't want to get anything more for him until we know the cocci is done and gone...couldn't do it right now anyway...but still..

and growing at over a pound a month wow! One day he really will be a big baby...I keep telling him that now and I am like, well you are a baby lol...


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## Orchid (Nov 14, 2009)

As to the headaches..

I used to get bad ones all the time...I get yelled at by my doc for how much tylenol I consume...but I started Seroquel and the headaches stopped...now I am off it again..and probably for good...which I think it is good, but I forgot how many headache I got before...


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## Orchid (Nov 15, 2009)

Dougal is definitely a morning boy...which goes against my very nature lol...

You can hear him running up and down...eating, jumping, munching hay...but when you turn to look he goes and lays down...like he is hiding lol.

I woke up to find his water dish bone dry and his food bowl the same. The water dish holdsa half cup of water! I am not doing SubQ this morning. I am also not Feeding the CC except to get the meds down.

I refilled the water and the food and added some oats which he was most happy to have.

Last night went ok with the fluids. I only had to stick him once and he only tried to escape twice...which he was not able to.I tried to give a bit of oats from my hand as a peace offering...well he ate them, but he bites to pick up...Simon used to lick anything in your hand...

I very much think we are on the mend! Everything is going to be great!

I made of some CC and squirted the right amount of the bio-sponge in it, added a little more CC and then the Bene Bac...why not get it all is one shot right? So that is two grams of meds, with the CC, made of a full 10cc of it all...He also had his pain meds too..but I am wondering if we really need to continue them..Later on he will get his Albon...Which is at about 4pm I think we will do...You are not supposed to give the Bio-Sponge with anything...

I am beginning to think the organic meadow hay is his favorite. He munches that one the most out of them all.

I brought the water dish and most of the hay down off the shelf now...seeing as he feels better I see no reason why he can not come down to eat and drink. I only left it up there because he was sick and I wanted him to have easy access to encourage.. His litter pans...I use my hands and grab out the wet litter, all the poops and old hay...I sanitize my hands and then put new litter and hay in the pans...He seems to have really picked up peeing in the pans! He did pee on my bed again today though...it was not a lot so I am thinking it is a marking thing...My bed is right next to his cage....

I have decided to rearrange it some and make it more fitting for him...that step is too short a space for him...need to make things easier to come and go from without hurting himself...

His poops are back still...some are pretty darn dark...would even go as far as to say black...but he is pooping! No where near as much squashy poo today as well...however his rear still stinks something awful...

I will watch and wait...see how he eats and drinks by 8pm....and if he is ok...I will not feed or SubQ him...should he eat nothing and drink nothing I will go ahead with both...but I do not think that will happen.

Thank you God! That make this coming week SO much easier to deal with!!

I have to figure out my insurance stuff sigh....

I really do not understand half of what I read...

I have the medicare where you piggy back onto another insurance...I was happy with Humana, but they are dropping so much coverage and upping the co pays, upping the monthly fee....OOOOOOOOOKKAAYY! Have to try to figure out...what I am doing and I only have one month to do it...They really should give you two months..I do not see how that extra 30 days should make a big difference except in the peoples lives who have to figure out what they are doing... Lord I hate insurance companies...

(munch munch munch) I love hearing that noise 

Even just watching buns is a fun thing for me...

:inlove:


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## kahlin (Nov 15, 2009)

It sounds like he's made some great improvement! Yay.


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## Orchid (Nov 15, 2009)

:bunnydance:

:dancingorig:

:agree


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## TinysMom (Nov 15, 2009)

I am so happy that he is doing better. Is he snuggling with you at all or licking you at all?

If not...don't worry - I'm sure he'll come around again...one of these years...


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## Orchid (Nov 15, 2009)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> I am so happy that he is doing better. Is he snuggling with you at all or licking you at all?
> 
> If not...don't worry - I'm sure he'll come around again...one of these years...


Not really...I think he see's my bed as a bad place to be now. He will jump up for a second or so but if I go to pet...he runs for it lol...
I think with stopping the CC and SubQ..things will improve...

Not that he cares for the rest of the meds...but it is no where near as bad../struggle...



He has been eating...He also did have like...8cc maybe of the CC earlier becauseI put two meds in it...so I am assuming that tamped down his urge to eat a bit...but he has nibbled a time or two...He has been chewing a fair amount of hay today...

Only found one pile of cecals and they looked much better than what I had been seeing...

(He is eating whats left of the oats...only gave him a bit 

I put down a kitty pan...the two sided plastic dish...a bit of oat in one side, pellets in the other...His cup however is full...untouched since it was filled at like 9am...

What do you think...if it stays full until like 8pm tonight...(5 hours from now)...should I go ahead and give the SubQ again?

Last night was not as bad as the other times...and I also stopped using the back of the neck like they showed me..and used more in the middle of his back how I learned years ago...he was much calmer...I think it hurt less...and I am sure that skin around his neck has to be sore as heck now..


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## Orchid (Nov 16, 2009)

Woke up to a noisy bunny! He really seems to like mornings lol...He quiets down once we all get up, stand up etc.

Lots o poo in the pen! Nice spot in the litter pan...was happy to see that pile. He ate all of the alfalfa hay I had put out last night, drank a 1/4 cup of water from what I could tell....I had also put another 1/4 cup of pellets in the dish...so that would be like a 1/2 of cup total I suppose he ate yesterday/this morning. I filled both sides of the dish with 1/4 cup of pellets sprinkled with oats before I left and refilled his water.

He was none to pleased with me giving the meds again today...but we got it done. I will give the Albon again this evening and watch to see how he drinks for the rest of the day...I will give him till 8pm tonight again...if nothing has really been drunk I will do SubQ again...

Angelina said he did a binky this morning but I did not see it. I let him out into the living room while I got the CC ready that I put the Bio Sponge into....He only stayed out for a few minutes. I wish I had been able to catch the binky.....

I am at work on lunch right now...I can not really keep a connection unless something changes...I can get on for moments at a time now...

Sorry to those I was talking to last night,...that I poofed...but I lost and could not get the connection back.

On a different note...the people of wake county converged on the DSS building today...leaving me unable to get help keeping my electric bill on...The x hub said he will drop some money in my NY account....I hope he comes through or we will have no lights/electric, heat, hot water for awhile...and that would SUCK.....

I really hate this kind of stress.

I get paid again on the 23rd...but the company would make no arrangement with me...they suck too..

My child support has started coming again...I suppoes the X is not getting unempolyment...SO NOT FAIR...as he is working 3 jobs off the books too...I never see a dime of that...I am so tired of him complaining and bitching...

Wish I could win the lottery....Wish I didnt need his help anymore...Wish I could tell him to stick it where the sun does not shine...

Alas...this is life.



Quite nice here today. Mustbe in the 70s I would think. Rather warm out there..

I will try to get on when I can tonight...but might not be able to...

I hope everyone is enjoying whatever part of day, it is for them...where ever you are......


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## Orchid (Nov 16, 2009)

Oh...and the oats in his face while doing sub Q....did not work... oh well


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## Orchid (Nov 17, 2009)

This morning....was a strange one for many reasons...and Dougal had nothing much to do with that.

I noticed last night he had started drinking..and that his water needed a refill this morning as well. He has been eating any where from 1/4-1/2 cup of pellets a day...and some oats.

He managed last night to get up on my bed...leave tons of poop and pee too. I was out in the living room at the time on the phone. I am still trying to figure if he jumped the two high NIC or got around it some how...

Lina is cleaning up the poop and there are tons of little ones all over, and two piles of cecals...none look too squishy. He is still is peeing every where. 

I suppose I am not so good at potty training. I would love see Dougal catch on and never poop or pee any where but his pans...I have been considering moving his pen into the living room making it more secure...Then I will not have to worry about him getting under my stuff or on the bed.....or jumping out. I have this feeling I am going to have to close the top up..not leave it open anymore...

Since he is feeling better....he has much more tude...DOES NOT like me, but is licking Angelina, butting her, jumping in her lap, cleaning her hair 

He runs from me...I would run from me too though if I was him...


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## Orchid (Nov 21, 2009)

Well it must be a good day for I can actually get online.

I tried posting a few days ago but gave up after hours of trying.

Working on looking at local internet peoples to see if I can figure out and afford something...but I hate hate hate TWC...and I owe AT&T like 500.00....so I think it is not looking too great...checking into it regardless...

ATT & TWC seem to have the same services at like the same prices, but ATT was always a BETTER service....never lost signal with ATT....TWC was always a nightmare to deal with

Alas...ATT wants a deposit...NOT...

and TWC wants the cash upfront...looks like no personal internet for me, for the moment...

Onward...

Dougal had seemed to very much be improving...even his potty habits started getting better when we shrank down to the dog crate and took him out of the palace.

He has been fighting me about taking the Bio-Sponge however...and it has gotten to the point where none of it is getting into him. He simply will no longer swallow it. No matter what I try, what I put it in or not, he will not swallow or eat it. He will eat the Bene and Albon no problem however. Can not say I blame the little guy, the stuff really is like sculpting clay...

His pen was a mess this morning...the smush has returned and he has stopped eating his cecals again as of yesterday...I am concerned about him, his attitude and behaviors...

he is biting at anything he does not like regardless of how you try to correct him...he does not listen. I constantly wonder how he manages to get poop only in the large water dish but not the small white one. 

He will eat oats no problem...but he is starting to slack with the pellets again...and his drinking is again a concern to me.

I opened the other Bene Bac today...the other one was done. Not much left of the first CC package I opened for this...but I do have another one of those as well. I am glad I have both and that we still have SubQ left...We just may end up needing it.

I keep thinking I need to go back to work for a Vet...so I can get discounts on these things...The needles and Fluid I could get at least...

He has been poopy, stinky...and sorta lazy today.

Last night he was not all that different but he was running around and doing some binkys. And he only let three poops out onto the carpet. MUCH BETTER!

BUT...I see no real poop today....except for what was in the cage. It took awhile to clean as well because I made my daughter do it. She was up before me and did not bother to even check on him, give him new/fresh/more water...food etc...when this has been a constant conversation...

Even last night we were talking about Simon and how she felt it was her fault he died because she was not pulling her weight...We talked about how it did not matter what she did or did not do...as I was taking care of him...and it did not matter he would have passed on either way....

I am nervous with Dougal on many levels...

This illness we seem unable to shake...

Things with my daughter are all screwy which has had me out of work....

Money is a forever issue....

I am tired of things being the way they are and it is wearing on me....

This biting he does at anything he does not like...what will that turn into when he is older? My god a bite from a 20lb bun is not something I look forward to...

and...

I think I have honestly discovered...as it was with Isobel it is with Dougal...I am allergic to the buns as well as the hay....It must have been the rex fur that I have no issue with. That is what everyone said Simon's coat was...

I hate that getting close to Dougal means sneezing, congestion,...hives...the whole nine...my arms had welts all over them yesterday.

Seems strange to be limited to one type of bunny...

I have thought and continue to think at some point we will bring home a Standard Rex female..well maybe a male lol...I have a thing for the boys  But that will not be for a few years...till we neuter Dougal....

Can picture life without a bun in it...can not picture ..not being able to snuggle with a bun...Once touched by the love of a rabbit, I can not now just go without...I suppose they have become the healthier sort of drug 

On a side note...the crap my daughter is pulling today is driving me NUTS! I am this close - to sending her to her bed for the rest of the day without dinner tonight! LORD! 

Going to try to get back the signal and post this...we shall see...

I hope every one is doing well enough and enjoying the weekend as best as possible...wow...it has been 2 weeks now? that we have had Dougal??? wow time has seemed to go by quickly...

on the quirky side of things..

Dougal seems unable to sit, but has to FLOP! The boy is a flopping fool...8 out of 10 times...if he goes to lay down, he throws himself down...it is quite entertaining to be honest.

He tried to be spider bunny when we were cleaning the crate....but I was smart enough to have those buggers be 3 high...though I felt bad turning to see him fall back to the ground...I always worry a bun will hurt themselves with that sort of fall. I kept the NIC cubes connected and keep them for a pen when we need it...

Honestly though I am really rather quite concerned...I suppose he reinfected himself with the cocci again...but we have been doing all the meds as we are supposed to...how is it this started all over again?


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## tonyshuman (Nov 21, 2009)

It is really easy to get cocci back into the system if any is still present in the environment. Plus the normal treatment is two doses of de-wormer, spread about a week apart.


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## Orchid (Nov 22, 2009)

Good Morning....

Well Dougal has decided he likes eating my carpet. Try to stop him butshort of keeping him in the pen all day every day I dont know how to stop him. We try yelling, stomping, water bottle...does not phase him in the least.

Still having smushy poo...but he eat a fair amount over the night and morning....but I am still concerned about his water intake...I have started spiking his water with white grape juice....everything new to him...he does not seem to want or even smell, try etc.

I did not give the Bio-Sponge today...it was such a nightmare yesterday and today would have been the last day anyway,....He just will not swallow it no matter what I do, how I try to trick him

With the smushy poo I wonder should I continue the Bene.....Today was supposed to be the last day for that...

Random...(god bless brown paper bags)....


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## Orchid (Nov 22, 2009)

*tonyshuman wrote: *


> It is really easy to get cocci back into the system if any is still present in the environment. Plus the normal treatment is two doses of de-wormer, spread about a week apart.


Yeah I know...but we have been pretty on top of things except for him eating the cecals....
He started the Albon on Nov 13 and has been, and will get it till Nov 26.

I am hoping things get out of his system by then.


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## Orchid (Nov 22, 2009)

I am considering either trying to force him to drink via syringe...but leaning towards the SubQ...because I know that will actually get into him...but man I know he will struggle and fight me to death about it.

I am concerned about his lack of water intake...
Yet he is eating with no issues again today...


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## Orchid (Nov 22, 2009)

I dont know it if will actually last, but I seem to have found a wall in my living room I can set up the laptop and still have a signal...I will be sitting on a glider stool to be here but hey...a connection is a connection!

Lets see how is goes...

I have yet to close the window...do not know how much that might effect things..


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## Orchid (Nov 22, 2009)

He still has the runs coming...he has not really drank any of the water since he was cleaned up today...WORRIED!



ullhair:


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## Orchid (Nov 23, 2009)

He drank well enough and ate good over the night...

CLeaned up, dumped his litter, refreshed everything...walked away for a minute and boom...skids everywhere on the brown paper bags....

I am worried about this...

Is it possible for a bun to be unable to kick the Cocci even with meds?


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## kahlin (Nov 23, 2009)

I don't know...I know my Lindor took a while to get it out of her system, but she didn't have it as bad as Dougal.


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## Orchid (Nov 24, 2009)

Well lets see hmmmm.

Smushy poo today, but it seems to have a pattern, odd as that may seem..

Dougal has started again with the runs...not just icky cecals, but the actual runs...not total liquid, but getting close. Only seems to hit at certain times of the day...Like after 8am and on....till the afternoon ish...
Started back 3 days ago.
His drinking has slacked off along with his eating...BUT
He will eat any and all oats you give him...He will drink some water when I add the white grape juice to it...and today he seems to be eating and drinking better...
I am concerned the cocci has come back...could it be he has some sort of tolerance to the Albon?
It is like it got better and still came back. He has been on the Albon since we went to the vet on the 13 and his last dose is the 26th...
I am unsure what to think....

wanted to start themix of mana, wheat germ, oats..and maybe something I am forgetting...
I had been thinking of trying to buy it all and start giving it to him to help make sure he is gaining enough weight...but I am not sure I should now.
I have been boiling any water he gets...and of course letting it cool before he gets it...
We have been cleaning and changing his pans...scooping out poop when we see it...Using hand sanatizer etc...

Had to take out the carpet because we have noticed he is picking up strands and eating them....so we rolled it up and have it sitting in Angelina room for now...sigh...

--
After chatting withCathy/BlueGiants...

I decided to ditch the oxbow hays and try for a fresh bale. I was able to find one place that is an ok drive to get to...A compressed 50lb bale of timothy/alfalfa hay...cost only like 12 bucks! Picked up the probiotic stuff for horses...it is like double the amount and more then less then half the cost...awesome...the calf mana they said whenthey have it even cheaper then at the tractor supply store. HE was also trying to talk me into starting a pellet they sell..
yeah..all good and well but I can not even get hisstomach settled on the rather plain diet he is already on...not going togo changing his pellets right now....I do not think I will period...unless something health related makes a difference with that choice.

Stopping everything except the bene....

He has been coming and going from the hay...which is more than I could say before..
The Brome did smell like vinegar..made me wonder...

Makes me wonder about all oxbow products really...

---------

The poopies have been irregular again since this started, but a good amount of them are uniform, round, firm...
He is being picky with the hays again...one minute he will eat the brome and the next he will not go near it...we have 5 kinds and I keep switching a bit to keep his interest..

I had been giving - Welchs, 100% White Grape Juice, from concentrate with added ingredients. - No Sugar Added - 120% Vitamin C
Says on label - total fat 0, sodium 1%, Total Carb 13% with this listed with it -Sugars 38g**, Protein 0g
The ** says contains natural fruit sugars only
No Artifical flavors or colors added.
Says it is easier on young stomachs than apple juice.

I did stop the SubQ, but I could start it again if we have to. I do have the supplies left for at least a few days more...maybe 3? Could possibly pick up more if needed...

I stopped the Bio Sponge...so he missed one dose yesterday...I just could not get it into him any more...he started spitting it back out, not swallowing etc a few days ago...no matter what I put it in or tried to do.
I Gave him more Bene Bac today just cause...but that was supposed to end yesterday too.
The pain meds we stopped awhile ago, but I might have a day or two.
LOL- I never bothered to smell it before, but yeah it smells like cake batter...We have a bunch left for now..supposed to stop that on Thursday.

He has had nothing at all since he came to us except for the pellets, oxbows hays, and the generic brand of Oats from Walmart I think it might be...Not the instant kind.
No carrots, greens, not even the papaya tablets...Since we have not been able to achieve a healthy norm without meds I was not going to try anything new....

Every thing was exactly the same when it went from 1 day to the next and everything went to smush again. Nothing had changed at that time...I started adding the WHite Grape to the water when I saw he was slacking off...he tends to pass it up really though...odd boy that he is...and it is very very diluted...like maybe...1cc? to a little more then a half of cup of boiled water...


So yeah I am stopping the Albon for now..giving his system a rest....and the White Grape...already took it away..and just the plain boiled water for him...

This is the site I found on the new hay we are trying out..
http://www.standleehay.com/home.aspx

His poos have seemed normal for awhile now.
He was acting slightly strange earlier,...running and hiding from us...but he stopped.
Any time he knows we are in his cage he tends to get upset...he will nudge you and push..jump back in and get right in your way...lol
He made cleaning and disinfecting everything again today quite a chore.
This cage attitude he has worries me slightly for when he is older...maybe he will grow out of it.
Angelina and Dougal are bonding well to eachother...it helped he starting licking her now...she feels so relieved and happy. Awesome what a bunny can do...

He will come up to the couch, but only stays a minute..he did flop right against the couch on the floor, right below where my head/hands were....I thought that was sweet of him.

I used the vanodine my friend sent me today to clean up everything...though now I am totally out of litter...BAH!

Well...we have hay to last quite some time..(please please please eat it a lot) and a pellet he is eating REALLY well...a cup or more, maybe up to 2 cups per day on an awesome day...now I just need to stock on litter and we should be good...unless his health takes a dip...

I am looking forward to the show in Sanford more and more and just can not wait to attend!

I have a bunch of pictures to get up...will try to do that next...and I just LOVE LOVE LOVE my new avatar of him! I got him perfect when he took a stretch with a peice of hay in his mouth! Super cute if you ask me


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## Orchid (Nov 24, 2009)

Maybe I can grab it and run...darn she looked..









oooo I wanna pair..but in more manly colors..






The little mommy likes to hold me...and well I let her...makes her smile and all...











ok so I have a small sock fetish...leave me alone..






HA...cant see me!!! I hide here and eat the carpet!!






Do I look like a doll? Seriously do I? Are we playing house here or what?






Leave me to my lazy ways...






I do so like my evening snacks...






AH, you touched me...now I must clean you away






Must you watch EVERYTHING I do? Must you?






The little mommy does so like it when I am near her...






sigh...my castle...torn down and destroyed...(I better get another one you human you! I shall pee where I want!!






IT JINGLES!






Do you think I could eat in peace just this once? no?






God you are so like the rabbit paparazzi!








CANT SEE ME!






I think I just might like this stuff...(crunch, munch, crunch...)






You took a picture of POOP! What is WRONG WITH YOU!






God...here we go again..






Is...is that for ME?!?






DINNER....has been served...











Be gone with you now!






AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...that felt goooooood


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## kahlin (Nov 24, 2009)

Love the pictures. Although I'm a bit jealous that you have such a clean house with no hay everywhere. I swear some days we have extra carpet - consisting of a layer of hay.


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## Orchid (Nov 24, 2009)

Thanks!
Ah well see I HAVE to keep it decently free of the hay. I am very allergic to everything under the sun...except for some rabbits and mold. The dust, the hay itself drives me crazy...My daughter has severe dust allergies as well.
I forgot who said it, but someone here on RO I think put it best...that you just want to shove a toilet bowl brush down your throat to ease the itch inside your back...your throat. The sneezing and congestion...lord it is rather horrible.

I try to clean every day...even if he didnt have cocci I would be picking up and cleaning every day. I vacuum 2-3 times a day...and almost never stop sweeping..

I suppose the best thing out of it all...my daughter will know how to keep her house clean one day lol...


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## Orchid (Nov 24, 2009)

HAHAHA..

It would seem Dougal likes to hang out in the glider chair in the living room...he will jump up and sit down..(It is where Lina sits most) He will sit there and lick it to death too....FUNNY!


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## tonyshuman (Nov 24, 2009)

Nice pics! You might want to start an Infirmary thread about his cocci problem, to get the input of others who don't read the blogs often. I don't have a lot of experience with it.


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## Orchid (Nov 24, 2009)

Thanks, but I have thought of it and decided not to.

Between the exp rabbit people here and my Vet I think we have it covered and I do not see a point to asking questions I already have the general answer to...
Would rather they help people that know much less than me.

I consider myself lucky enough to have some great knowledgable friends on here..and a good vet..


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## BlueGiants (Nov 24, 2009)

LOVE the photo's! What a HANDSOME boy! That looks like nice green hay you got! The timothy/alfalafa mix will do him some good, especially while he is growing so much right now. 

Don't worry about his cage attitude right now. I think he's just playing with you... most of the boys are pretty tolerant of any one "invading " their space. And he is still so young and playful...

I think you are doing a good thing tosimplify things for a day or so... let his system calm down and see if it adjusts without all the "help". Most cocci treatments are 5 days on, 3 days off, 5 days on... for him to be on it for almost 2 weeks straight is intense.

Thanks for sharing all the photos! He has quite the personality!


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## Orchid (Nov 24, 2009)

*BlueGiants wrote: *


> LOVE the photo's! What a HANDSOME boy! That looks like nice green hay you got! The timothy/alfalafa mix will do him some good, especially while he is growing so much right now.
> 
> Don't worry about his cage attitude right now. I think he's just playing with you... most of the boys are pretty tolerant of any one "invading " their space. And he is still so young and playful...
> 
> ...



Thanks! he is a handsome guy and I think he knows and exploits IT!!!

It is so green right? I was like wow this cant be real lol...So used to oxbow crap and man it seems like crap now compared to how fresh this seems (and smells from a distance)

ok...I just hope it stays playful...

He has actually been out since like about noon-ish...about 5 almost now..he has been hanging out at the edge where the carpet goes to hardwood...we have a nic fence and litter pan over there...kind behind my glider chair...he has been back in there almost all day..but ok.

He has come out to play...keeps trying to eat Angelina's letters to her Family in NY....lol I warned her though not to let him actually get at any of it...the pencils, the pink erasers etc...

Well already the poop seems to be improving...lots of cecal piles thatcould have become hay pattys if we had not cleaned up..but it is not smushy as before...he does have that stinky smell following though...keep joking we should have named him Stinky Butt instead of Dougal lol...

Trying the Vanilla in the water but he turned his nose at it...so oh well...we will see what the next day or so brings...

Thanks!!


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## Yurusumaji (Nov 24, 2009)

Your baby is so adorable. :hearts

Hope he continues to progress.


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## Orchid (Nov 24, 2009)

Thank you! Me too lol...


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## JadeIcing (Nov 24, 2009)

I could say the same for Ringo and Gabriels threads but I think it helps others to learn.It gets so many ideas out there for others who go through it. It also helps to build the library resources.

Orchid* wrote: *


> Thanks, but I have thought of it and decided not to.
> 
> Between the exp rabbit people here and my Vet I think we have it covered and I do not see a point to asking questions I already have the general answer to...
> Would rather they help people that know much less than me.
> ...


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## Orchid (Nov 24, 2009)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> I could say the same for Ringo and Gabriels threads but I think it helps others to learn.It gets so many ideas out there for others who go through it. It also helps to build the library resources.
> 
> Orchid* wrote: *
> 
> ...






If there is a benefit for others...sure!

I posted as much from my blog as I thought relevant


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## Orchid (Nov 24, 2009)

SOOOOOOOOOO...

Dougal is out in the living room for like 6 hours now doing almost anything he wants...ok...

So I bring his food and water dishes out of the crate and onto the carpet and what does he do??? Yes that is right he goes back into the crate, some how squeezes himself behind the litter pan and hides...lol..OKKKKK

So yeah I think I will be putting the food and water back in there and closing him up...

Man is he picky eh?
lol


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## Yurusumaji (Nov 24, 2009)

He's playing hide-and-go-seek! :laugh:


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## Orchid (Nov 24, 2009)

*Yurusumaji wrote: *


> He's playing hide-and-go-seek! :laugh:



It is rather funny to see him try to squeeze himself into the TINY space...I will have to get a picture of it next time he tries...

Lets see him do that when he grows a bit...lord I hope he doesnt make a habit of this or he could get himself stuck one day lol...


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## JadeIcing (Nov 24, 2009)

*Orchid wrote: *


> *JadeIcing wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I could say the same for Ringo and Gabriels threads but I think it helps others to learn.It gets so many ideas out there for others who go through it. It also helps to build the library resources.
> ...




:hug::highfive:


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## TinysMom (Nov 25, 2009)

*Orchid wrote: *


> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...that felt goooooood



I SOOOO want to steal this little sweetie and bring him home - I can't believe how adorable he is. 

I hope he brings you lots of joy - cause I love to hear/read about him....


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## Orchid (Nov 25, 2009)




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## Yurusumaji (Nov 25, 2009)

We buddied you on BunSpace, Dougal!


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## hln917 (Nov 25, 2009)

*Orchid wrote: *


> If we actually make it through this...I honestly think he just might hate me forever...



I'm just finding this blog now. Dougal is a beautiful bunny and sending good wishes your way. When Baci was sick, it was one of the worst 2 weeks of our lives. Poor hubby was in charge of doing the bunny buritto andfeeding the the CC, pedialyte, simthecone, etc to Baci. Baci hated him and would run whenever he saw him.

Well happy to say Baci is fine now. (and thanks to everyone's help here on the forum) I think Baci now knows that hubby was just trying to help him get better b/c he's sooooooo attached to him now, that I'm even jealous sometimes. Heruns to greet him as soon as he walks into the room and follows him like a dog! So I'm sure Dougal knows you're just helping him feel better and he'll show his appreciation soon!


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## Orchid (Nov 25, 2009)

*Yurusumaji wrote: *


> We buddied you on BunSpace, Dougal!



Hey Kelli...



I am not sure I will be hanging around there...been a few things I have seen so farI have not liked and now I am hearing things I do not like either...

I am undecided..as I would like to perhaps get to know local bunny peoples, but I am not liking the scene so much...


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## Orchid (Nov 25, 2009)

*hln917 wrote: *


> *Orchid wrote: *
> 
> 
> > If we actually make it through this...I honestly think he just might hate me forever...
> ...




Thanks hun!

He is bonding more to my daughter than me..but that is ok as it was sort of the point to begin with. Not that I do not want his love and attentions, but she needs it more so than I do...I am content for now with what is.

I am hoping to bring home either a mini or standard rex some point in the future for it would seem my allergies are so much better when dealing with the fur type they have...Crazy but true.

I hope perhaps we could get a little bonding between buns going on 

I have been going over the colors ..and I think I just might really like to try to find a sable point. One that is a high show quality as well so my daughter could show that bun too! But Castor is not out of the light yet...I like that one too, but sable better. I need to find out more about the rex before we do anything 

(and before we go to shows LOL)


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## TinysMom (Nov 25, 2009)

I was NEVER a mini rex or rex fan...I'd had rex mixes and they drove me up the wall with their hyperactivity.

Then Roger from RAL Rabbitry had me hold one of his mini rexes...(I wish I'd thought to sneak it in my purse and bring it home).

The rabbit just settled into my hands and let me pet it and love on it and it was so therapeutic for me....now I'm sold on them. I am seriously considering getting a castor mini rex from Roger....


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## Yurusumaji (Nov 25, 2009)

*Orchid wrote: *


> *Yurusumaji wrote: *
> 
> 
> > We buddied you on BunSpace, Dougal!
> ...


To each his own. Can I ask what you've been hearing since I haven't really heard anything about it besides that a bunch of people have one? You can PM it to me.  I'd like to be on the up-and-up!


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## Orchid (Nov 25, 2009)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> I was NEVER a mini rex or rex fan...I'd had rex mixes and they drove me up the wall with their hyperactivity.
> 
> Then Roger from RAL Rabbitry had me hold one of his mini rexes...(I wish I'd thought to sneak it in my purse and bring it home).
> 
> The rabbit just settled into my hands and let me pet it and love on it and it was so therapeutic for me....now I'm sold on them. I am seriously considering getting a castor mini rex from Roger....



This is not the first time I have heard those names...

Does he happen to have a website?

I am assuming people have met him from shows? Any idea how I can get in touch?

I tried to google him but it didnt work lol...

I really like the Sable...BEW would have been my top choice but I heard they are prone to illness and I would rather avoid that...Castor and the otter are the next ones I liked...color wise.

and do not misunderstand..I know NOTHING about showing buns, but there are things I notice about Dougal and I Think...na he wont win lol...I love him, but I think losing over and over would upset Angelina...so I have been thinking hard about getting a second bun I can snuggle with..have in my room etc...have it be a show bun too for Lina...and well maybe a play mate for Dougal. I think I might go ahead and get a girl....Every time I turn around I hear someone talking about how their girl is such a good potty in the litter pan bun...and boys do not seem to have that same...

Thanks for mentioning it Peg!


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## TinysMom (Nov 25, 2009)

He's a member of our forum....RalRabbitry...if I remember right - I'll have to look.

He's the one who wants to send me a mini rex doe with a "surprise inside". (Most of his castor brood does are grand champions....does that tell you something about his rabbits?)


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## TinysMom (Nov 25, 2009)

You can check out his topics and posts on his profile...

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_user.php?id=5039

Roger is a SUPER SUPER nice guy....I wish I'd spent more time with him at the Storrs, CT show - but I was so psyched to be around the flemish giants...


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## TinysMom (Nov 25, 2009)

This was Roger's website back in 2008....

http://www.ralsminirex.bravehost.com/index.html


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## Orchid (Nov 25, 2009)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> He's a member of our forum....RalRabbitry...if I remember right - I'll have to look.
> 
> He's the one who wants to send me a mini rex doe with a "surprise inside". (Most of his castor brood does are grand champions....does that tell you something about his rabbits?)



LOL....a surprise eh? That would be fun...more bunnys to steal your sanity

:bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance:


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## Orchid (Nov 26, 2009)

2:07am EST...Thanksgiving Day, very early morning...

Been unable to sleep but that has been a trend for overa week now. Keep trying to fix it, fight it and I am not winning that battle.

Cold in the house tonight...turned up the heat to 73 and put my bathrobe on.

I have noticed that come bedtime Angelina starts to ask me all sorts of questions about things and I do not mind answering but I think it is much more a ploy to stay up than to understand something...

Once again I saw a lot of love between Dougal and Lina today....I am so very hopeful for them both. While I know Angelina misses Simon so much and even is blaming her self for his death...I think Dougal is really helping her heart to heal and her self doubt. I tried explaining to her it was not her fault but she feels guilty for not pulling her weight when she was supposed to..I tried to explain I took care of him even was she was not so we did all we could...but I understand a heart that feels the guilt regardless of reason, logic and understanding.

I went to the tractor supply store today because we have been out of litter for a few days. Angelina was out with her cousin at the movies so I took the time to wander about the store and see what was what...I found a 10lb bag of calf mana for 12 bucks or so...but it was all busted open and I did not want to buy it, the guy said he would not buy any more until that one was gone...well sorry but that is plain stupid as I will not buy a bag of that stuff when it is like that with no promise that it would not hurt my boy...

I found a bin for the food...I felt good about that even though I did not want to spend the money on it. I needed to be honest with myself though. While I never had problems as bad as here...I had some. Still, the ants run rampant at times, I find roaches every now again..and these disgusting grasshopper looking spider things that I so wish were never ever created...it is like my worst fear lived. Spiders that chase you and these things do seem to jump after you...I had one jump and hit my forehead once...I almost threw up right there...anyway..so yeah I bought the bin to keep the pellets in because I do not want some sort of creature getting into it and doing something to make Dougal ill. I tried to see if anything would work with the Hay bale...but I did not see anything that would have worked, fit in my house and not cost an arm and a leg.

I picked up a water bottle too. A fairly large size that holds a nice amount of water. Washed and clean, up and sort of used. I annoyed him a little to come and inspect what I was doing and he did and he discovered the nozzle...he did drink from it for a minute so I know he can and does get how to...but with both the crock and the bottle he is choosing the crock every time. I suppose the bottle makes me feel better that should his water get dirty or even run out he has this back up bottle he can choose to drink from.

His eating is good. I would say perhaps he was pigging out because he was so hungry after everything and now we are evening out to a norm. I would say he is probably eating 1/2 a cup to a bit over that per day. 

I have a cat dish and in each side I put 1/4 cup of pellets and I sprinkle and mix around the oats to get him into it...works every time..Oats really are like his chocolate 

Anyway...within a 24 hour period I need to fill it twice, but he is not eating a whole cup per day. 

His poops are looking great. 

He is eating his hay well. He will get up and down to munch. He does not seem to mess with the leafy parts of things...I suppose what are the tender parts of the Alfalfa...but only the stalks of the hay...ok.. 

He seemed worried over the change in litter so yeah I picked him up and put him in it to show him nothing would happen, he jumped right out but later on jumped back in to pee in it. He has stopped peeing anywhere in the crate but his litter pan. He will pee in the living room but only on my couch. Otherwise he uses the litter pans..and the poops, well I do not see him being overly concerned where they end up, though he is not too bad about that when he is out of the crate.

We turned the radio on in the kitchen tonight to cook dinner...um yeah..it would seem that Dougal disagrees with my choices of stations...he got so scared I turned it off. 

His breathing made me worried for a bit...I almost started placing phone calls lol...but I figured he was out, he was scared and once he calmed down from it all he would be fine....it just was scary to see him breathing so very heavy like that...making his body shake and his ears bob...Lina got very worried and sat next to his crate watching him...telling me every minute what was going on till he mellowed out.



I did indeed make some inquiries about a Sable Point Rex. Roger does seem like a very nice person. I have been considering more and more about going to the PA show and I think money permitting I should go and want to go.

Since 2001 I have spent the month of Feb in mourning. Every year that it passes it is a pain that does not really ever ease. 

Though a monster in his own right and a horrible horrible father...I was devasted when he died. He passed on from heart failure on Feb 6th...but no one knew till his employer went looking for him. I had a call from my estranged sister telling me he died on Feb 8th. My wedding was Feb 10...and our honey moon was canceled because of the things I needed to attend to with my father. We never did reschedule....Valentines day is no fun either. Not that year or any other thinking of a failed marriage that has made both adults utterly miserable and has caused our daughter pain as well...so yeah..I am not a fan of the month of Feb and if I could take it off the calendar I would. It was also the very last time I spoke with my sister...anything that had held any sort of thread between us, broke with my fathers death. 

I looked that the 1st weekend in Feb and that Saturday is the 6th...perhaps it is a lot of things coming together to tell me to let it go and fate has found a way that I can channel my energies into something and not feel so ...devasted during that time.

I will have to look at everything and see if I can indeed make it happen, but I want to try and I think I should do it. For me, for Lina and maybe Dougal will go...We will see I suppose...and maybe...just maybe..we will bring home a baby from that show..if things work our of course. A little female Sable Point...I think it would be a great addition to our family.

I suppose I will go for now...and try to relax..sleep...After all I have to cook a Thanksgiving dinner for two people...I can not tell you howhard it is being an Italian woman and not cooking HUGE dinners that no one would eat lol...

I bought a pie instead of making one, a turkey, will make some stuffing, some greenbeans and candied yams with some canned jellied cranbberry sauce..another one of my lovely addictions I try to avoid.....


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## BlueGiants (Nov 26, 2009)

I think it would be a wonderful distraction for you and Lina to come to the Lebanon show for the day. It would be great to meet you both! And wait til you see ALL those RABBITS!!!! (Balm for the soul!)

UGH! I know how it is not to sleep... miserable not to be able to shut off the brain long enough to get some sleep! 

I have a radio on in the Rabbit Barn all the time so they get used to "noise" (music, voices, sound effects, etc.) Keeps them calm when the neighbors throw loud parties and the constructioncrew is working down the block!

I wish all three of you a peaceful, loving Thanksgiving... I'm sohappy that Dougal is doing so well!


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## Orchid (Nov 28, 2009)

11/28/09 - 10:58am EST

Both Angelina and I have been feeling kinda crappy the last few days. I started thinking perhaps it was allergies but I am not so sure anymore. She is congested pretty bad and nothing I have done so far is helping. Keep trying to keep the house as clean and dust free as I can...Steaming the bath, allergy meds, vicks vapor etc...

Last night after I got Angelina off to bed I finished a book...Acheron....I really like the dark hunter series. She really is one of my most favorite authors..her and Karen Marie Moning tie for first place I think.

Sat down in front of Dougals crate last night and opened the door so we could hang out for a minute. He kept nudging me, but did not want any pets...ok...so I started picking his crate up a little bit, gave him some more pellets and things like that...well he started biting. Not overly hard but I did not feel to me he was being playful. I think this really is a (this is my cage get out of it) thing. 

He is different with Angelina than me. He went and sat in her lap and stayed there while she loved and petted him. It was rather cute. I came walking out from my shower and they are sitting on the floor, him in her lap, she is humming...looks up at me and smiles while she pets him. I asked her if he came and sat with her on his own, she said yes..and did he stay on his own or did you hold him so he couldn't go..and she said no...he has just sat here with me...I thought that was so great!

He is out right now...he is very cute when he runs. Ido have to say he is a rather clumsy little boy...He does this thing where he will swing his head and than jump straight up...come down and take off running...sadly he tends to slam himself into the couch, walls, glider etc...ouch!

On thanksgiving day I couldn't resist..and so yeah I gave him the smallest piece of carrot ever...he did not want it or eat it...I was surprised...but I should not be I suppose...Simon never liked much of anything...including carrots.

Dawned on me the other day he is pushing the point where the testies are gonna drop...My eyes rolled and I took a death breath lol..not NOT looking forward to the hormones!!!!

He likes the hay we got for him but only eats the stalky parts..any leafy areas go untouched...

He eats pretty good..he likes his pellets, but has days where it drops down in how much he is eating, always seems that the next day he is pigging out so I equate it to the same as a growing child...they eat a lot and sometimes not at all..

His water bottle is down a bit today..more so than what drips would have done...so I am thinking he must have been drinking from it over night.

I order Angelina's present from V Tech...The coupon code did not take for 20% off and I have been trying to get in touch with some one who could fix it but they will not respond to me at all..I am getting most disillusioned...I have always rather liked V Tech and it is sad to see them falling down that ladder of (We DONT CARE)

Her Aunt Tami ordered her a Pink Jets Watch which arrived yesterday and 3 movies, Doogal, UP, and the first Muppet Movie. The movies have not come. The watch is cute enough and it was something on her list. I have thought about getting her a cheap little one that could be worn with anything but I figured what ever..lol

I was thinking about the dog crates the other day and I feel pretty sure that I will buy another one when Dougal needs to super size. But I want to get one like I have now. It does not open in the front, but on the front and SIDE...so we have it turned long ways and use the side door which gives you a lot more, better access to the whole crate. The ones I saw in TS...only had a front door...but still crate 40% off! wow... We can get away with what we have for now though and it is just fine with me. I was thinking the last few days I will put a few nic cubes together and make another shelf in there for him like we had when I first set it up.

I suppose that is all for now....

Going to relax and try to feel ok, but I think we are both sick and getter sicker. Angelina NEVER naps anymore..ever...but yesterday we layed down on the couch together...and both of us knocked out for 2 hours-ish...that alone tells me it has to be a cold.


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## BlueGiants (Nov 28, 2009)

I really hope you both feel better soon. Get as much rest as possible... lots of soup... :hug:


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## hln917 (Nov 28, 2009)

Thanks so much for cheering up my day somewhat. It's been such a stressful couple of days with my Baci not feeling well but your pics of Dougal bought smiles.... Hugs to you!


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## Orchid (Nov 29, 2009)

Strange isnt it how the smallest thing can make you smile...like oh say your rabbit eating and enjoying his hay!

Also wanted to say I love this new litter! I think it is SO much better than YN for so many reasons....great buy...I think it was Peg? Who told me about this stuff...THANK YOU!

Things are odd here...I was pretty sure we were both getting sick...but alas we both seem pretty darn good today...go figure...

I am wondering if it is something in the house...(besides bunny and hay)...

I had a comforter behind this old school sofa chair in my bedroom...picked it up today and noticed mold growing on the wall where it was?????????Bleached and cleaned but still I am rather confused on that one...I see it growing on parts of the windows too...figured it was an NC thing..but maybe it is the house with the way it is put together...for these windows being new..there is still a HUGE draft that comes anyway...Want to try to find some sort of winter plastic to put over the windows on the outside...and some way to winter proof my doors....hmmm


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## Orchid (Nov 29, 2009)

*hln917 wrote: *


> Thanks so much for cheering up my day somewhat. It's been such a stressful couple of days with my Baci not feeling well but your pics of Dougal bought smiles.... Hugs to you!


I am so glad he was able to cheer you up


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## Orchid (Nov 29, 2009)

Lazy day..but what else is new eh?

Got Lina out of the house for a bit and playing...I need to do that more...

We watched the Jets actually win a game for once, but a few times I thought they would screw it up again...Sanchez seems to be coming round a little at a time, but that boy needs to learn to throw instead of running the ball himself or he wont be playing long...twisted his knee a tad today....

Noticed the new bunny banner and I just love it...wished I could take pictures like that...I really like it. I never have been good at the computer graphic stuff though 

Took a nice relaxing bath, trimmed my hair..danced to some music and then Lina and I took a very short bike ride. I wanted to go longer but it would seem my fat lazy butt has been too lazy for too long. My body could not handle it and I could barely breath when we came back to the house. Had to use the neb....

I am most disgusted with myself. Most unhappy and I KNOW if I could just start I would begin to feel better....I can not STAND looking and feeling this way.

I keep saying we will do this and that but I never do...

Sigh...

Dougal seems to be doing great! The poop is on the money, he is eating his cecals, he is playing, and what I call dancing(which is him really running and binkying his brains out)...He will sit with Angelina...he will not bite her for reaching in his crate..It is looking like he will not forget lol...what we had to do when he first came..which is ok. Angelina needs a bunny to be close with. Simon was a great snuggle bunny, but when push comes to shove I was much closer to him than she ever was. I keep thinking about Simon alot...his birthday is coming up...and my heart hurts thinking about it. I want to get a christmas oarament with is picture and than one with Lina, Dougal and I together...to mark the start and end of things...Have to figure out what kind of tree to get ...promised a live one but I am not sure I can afford it...Glad I have the hardwood floors..Need a Dougal safe tree...I remember reading a post about them here....I will have to go find it some time this week...

I really really super want to get a Rex...very uber badly lol...I think a little Rex girl for me in my bedroom would be awesome..Just trying to think how to avoid the mass amount and spraying and peeing to mark from both buns. I am sure Dougal looks at the living room like it is his now..it is where his crate is,...BUT,...the living room is the only real running room...the new bun would have to be aloud out here too.....I suppose I should start buying the vinegar now lol... I have not heard back from Roger again...I am thinking it must be because he is busy...I would really like to have a Sable Point...I suppose we shall see how things turn though. I am going back to work tomorrow after being out for like...2 weeks. So much of this and that...but my sleep is still so messed up and I worried about screwing up this week as I can not afford to or they will end up letting me go from the program...not good...I just might pop a seroquel to knock out tonight and try to reset my internal alarm clock...

Gotta go do dinner....Dougal needs a run and I promised we would start reading this random bun book we found at the usedbook store...it is called...."Kenny and The Dragon" ..looks fun.

http://www.amazon.com/Kenny-Dragon-Tony-DiTerlizzi/dp/1416939776

Amazon has good reviews on it..it seems...looking forward to reading it...


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## TinysMom (Dec 2, 2009)

Bumping for more pictures - and an update!


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## Fancy77 (Dec 2, 2009)

:bump:


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## Orchid (Dec 3, 2009)

I will post about Dougal soon...just not right now...I am a little heated up and need to walk away from this computer for now...

He has some great new pictures and some video. I will get them here too soon...

(Seems like his cocci may be back....mushy, smelly....and uneaten cecals again...just started today)


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## Fancy77 (Dec 3, 2009)

OH huni...enjoy your walk...sorry!!!


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## Orchid (Dec 5, 2009)

Keep meaning to come update....drop some pictures and what not...but life seems to keep happening ya know...



:banghead

:craziness

:huh

:dunno

:help

:stikpoke

:help:help:help

:banghead

:censored2:


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## BlueGiants (Dec 6, 2009)

*Orchid wrote: *


> Keep meaning to come update....drop some pictures and what not...but life seems to keep happening ya know...




Yeah, we know... really we do! :hug:


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## Orchid (Dec 6, 2009)

Sunday...12/6 at 12:04pm....

I actually have a minute to sit and just be....trying to think where I left off...

Random things...I have not been back to bunspace since I opened it. Sorry I never got back to you Kelli...but I also sort of feel we should each make our own choices. I didnt like some things but that was just me...

Dougals breeder Sarah ended up in the hospital which I started a thread on. I am so sad to hear she became this ill...I was so worried over who was taking care of her animals, but Cathy said she is sure someone is making sure they are being looked after. Last email update said she might be out by Monday...I think that would be great! Angelina finished her card to Sarah and we will send it out in the mail on Monday. Angelina was sad to hear she was not well....We both were looking forward to seeing her at the show on 12/12.... I called the number I found for the show person, spoke to a man and asked if he could provide me some details because I do not even know the address.....said he would email me but never did...I will have to get it figured out before Friday.

Things with work are ok...not shiningly so...but ok enough....I did go to work every day last week. I intend to do so again this week, but I will have to leave early again on Wed as the sitter canceled on me for the 4th? 5th? time....sigh.

Couple of days ago I saw some smush come back with Dougal...I freaked a bit but Cathy calmed me down and he did seem to even back out. I have been noticing what seems like a decrease in his appetite again though....I have been trying to not be very paranoid about it, but today we saw poop, that smelled horrible...no form to it and while it was not liquid, is was the dreaded D... My gut is telling me something is wrong again. I deceided to go ahead and start up the Albon again. I gave him some this morning with some Bene Bac. He really is not eating his pellets...he is eating the oats he digs through the pellets to find. He is eating his hay though and I think fairly well...

I added a shelf into the crate last night, just really felt he needs some more room...and extra shelf to lay out on...So he has that with the grass mat and his food dish up there...litter pan stacked with hay directly under it now...and he seems to really like the childrens blankets I still have (minnie mouse & elmo) folded up a few times to lay on. I think he likes the cushion. His water crock is in the bottom corner sitting on just the crate floor. I took the water bottle down because I saw all is does is leak over every thing...SIGH...














When I go to work and know I will be there a full day for me...which is about 9-4 I set up the NIC 3 squares high wall I have and leave his door open. I attach the water bottle to that and put a wash cloth under it...this way he is not cramped into the crate all day...






We had tried to give him a little bit of green leaf a little while ago...he took maybe two bites and went away...guessing he does not care for it. He didnt want anything to do with the carrot peice on Thanksgiving...PICKY BOY...

He seems to have a thing about his whiskers....he will shake his head and twitch when anything at all touches them. even the floor...(He is up on the shelf at his pellet dish but I do not hear the crunch of the pellets..probably licking up the last oat he can find)

He does not like pine cones...and Honestly I can not blame him...those prickly little parts would annoy me too!

He is still eating the carpet, but has also moved on to trying to eat the wood molding that meets the corner of the floor and wall. I have given up on trying to restrict his access to areas and now just try to protect them the best I can. He seems to have given up on trying to jump the NICs now...even if they are only 1 high, which in the hallway they are...

He still tries to make a break for my bedroom...perhaps I need to let him get in there to see there is nothing left, no palace for him anymore in my room...

I have been feeling ill on and off for a while now. I thought it was allergies and I am actually pretty sure it was...at least that is how it started....but it quickly progressed to something else...and Wed, Thurs at work I was just plain miserable. Bending over hurt the pressure in my head SO much...

When friday came I said enough is enough and took myself to one of those CVS minute clinics. I knew my regular doc office would be slammed like it always is and it is always a long wait and a 40 minute drive...the hell with that...so yeah...CVS...here I come...

Was ok...only person there so I was seen in minutes...She checked me out and then asked what was new and different in the house...(I knew where this was leading as I have had this conversation before, just usually about dogs or cats)....

So I told her Dougal a bunny and a bale of hay from a new store. And she goes on to tell me exactly what I thought she would...my allergies became so great that it created such sinus issues that caused a serious bacterial sinus infection. "You need to put him outside or in a shed" my response...That is not possible. It is too cold out side and the shed would not work...her response" Than you need to get rid of him because this will just keep happening like a circle..over and over again"...my response..."Whats one more med in the morning to me?" She shook her head and gave me that 5 day antibiotic...told me I really need to do saline nose rinses, get a humidifeir in my house and mucinex?

Well I got the script, stopped at Walmart and got the mist machine from Vicks for 15 bucks. Skipped the $$$$$ mucinex crap and tried the nose rinse stuff which happens to burn and I choke on it so I dont do that now either.

My congestion has dropped, the pressure in my face is gone, the almost feels like pain in my ears, gone...my breathing issues..gone.

She said to stop everything else I am taking,...but I am still taking the benadryl at night...it was never just for the allergies, but to help me sleep as well and lord knows that stuff is a whammy! I think that is probably the only med I have never built a tolerance to.

Get rid of your rabbit....cant do it...cant...not to him, not to Lina...not to me..cant.


WHO..could get rid of a face LIKE THAT...hmmm?







I am worried though...truthfully I can not go through every day like I was...my head, my ears and face OUCH! I have to find a solution that helps me and effects nothing else. The idea of a hutch has come to my mind...but I do not see how I could honestly make that work. There is no way I could put him in the tiny ant infested shed...and this is a rented house/property...I do not have the right to do or change anything...

I really truthfully do not understand WHY my reaction is so very drastically different from having Simon. Yes I know we deal with the Hay more....but it can not be just that.

I am hoping our warm misting will help things...I put it in the living room instead of the bedroom. Truthfully Lina and I both need one in our rooms...but I thought this was better. I hung a sheet to block off my kitchen and keep all the doors closed...when it gets pretty good in here I open up the two bedroom doors. It runs pretty well and for a good amount of time on a full tank of water...strange you need to add salt, but ok. They have this little dish for meds to put into the air, but as we do not need that I have been putting lavendar oil into it...makes the house smell GREAT!

Dougal has been biting more...I saw a horrible bruise on Angelinas chest last night and I was like what the hell, where did that come from ...she calmly says...oh Dougal did that when I picked him up to put him away...(It is an ugly looking bruise)...

While trying to take a look at his back yesterday he bit the both of us enough to leave some good bruises..mine do not actually hurt butthe color of it is there.

He is very cage worried...you can not go into or near his cage without him like panicing to what are you doing...he has to sniff smell and push his way back in to start nudging or biting you out. 

See how he protects his food 






When I was holding him for a minute yesterday I felt something on his skin...struck me as worm-ish....scar tissue-ish...

Broke out with the clippers, shaved down the spot and took a look. The skin is NOT broken. It is raised, it is about an inch in length and is not stuck in one spot, it moves with that layer of skin. It is not red or irratated. I did clean it up with some Vanodine...hoping it is just a scratch...but it doesnt strike me as that...It is still the same today as it was yesterday. It has not gone down, gotten better etc....






































He has been playing an awful lot when we let him out. He loves to run...but it has to be along things...along the side of the couch, boxes etc...not right out in the open...which sucks for him in a way because when he jumps he tends to swing his rear end in a different direction than where he was going and well yeah..he ends up sliding, slamming...some part of him into something.

We/I...created this 3 level cardboard box heaven for him...of course he could care less, but he will hide behind it. He will run through the tunnels some...but not alot.

He is one hell of a flopping fool...seriously he does not know how to sit...only flop lol.I admit to getting paranoid that he is dead a lot because I swear to god he really looks like he is...he is ALWAYS laying on his side,...sometimes his eyes are closes, sometimes slightly open with that,...not here look to them... and sometimes he doesnt even respond to you....He probably does not like that I jiggle him to make sure at times he is ok...lol...but I can not help it.

I turned the crate...this way when I attach the pen like NIC to it for extra moving room for him he can not get to the carpet at all now.

I picked the couch out I have now on purpose for one shining fact....it is so low to the floor, no bun can get under it or behind it. I did this with Simon in thought, but it is working out great for Dougal as well...

The East Regional Library had cookies with Santa yesterday....Oh my good god....I have NEVER seen so many people there...I even took a picture with Santa....

Funny how you never really understand just how heavy you have become till you see a picture of yourself eh? I look like I belong in the ocean...sigh.

I talked to my X husband today...lord I swear you need to grant me a better tolerance of idiocy....Angelina invited him to her school preformace of the Nutcracker..."I dont know if I can, I will have to see"...(JERK)...there are so very many things I would love to say but over time I have accumlated so many things to say that now they get stuck coming out and I just huff and give up...

We lost another hermit crab....again.

A long while ago I bought Angelina 3 hermit crabs. I have 3 types of food cause I can never tell if they even eat...we have salt water and regular water...we have hides, crawly thingys, and shells galore...Well...Ella...she was TEENY TINY...like the size of a dime maybe? One day she left her shell and seemed to have froze in place...we found her just standing there stiff....(This was before Simon died)...We still had Hermie and Teddy however...and she vowed to be a better Hermit crab owner....OKAAAAYYyy...

Well we bought Squirt...and everything has been fine for quite some time...we have had them all since like...July maybe? Well....Hermie...crawled out of his shell and looked to have been slightly eaten by the others...The only reason we know it was Hermie was because he stuck out of his shell much further than he should have ( he should have switched to a bigger shell but he never would...even when he would leave his and change em out he would go back to the same one)...but the crab in hermies shell...fit. Which means it was Teddie...He was the smallest of them all...and he took over Hermies house...Teddie seems...odd for him...usually he does nothing but hide...and WILL NOT move if he sees you or knows you are there...he is very much a fraidy cat...ya know...but he has been wandering and walking all over..... Mold keeps growing and I keep trying to get it out, changed the sand, changed the coconut dirt stuff...still it grows...changed the tanks and so far that seems to have made a difference. I hesitate to get another crab...We are not having a great track record here...and I feel bad for them...plus only Ella,Hermie and Teddie seemed to like each other....Squirt seems to bother and bully any other crab...Squirt is like..4 times the size of any of the others though and he was the smallest one I could find...at the time.

Angelina is out side right now taking care of the pine needles as is her punishment for some severe and dangerous lies she has begun telling. She has been acting out, being slightly destructive, breaking rules, lying and some other things that have made life quite hard lately. I feel like I have no way to reach her and I am actually concerned for her safety...she has talked about hurting herself...my 8 year old..

I saw her hit her head last night and so now she has to be where I am, can not be in any room unless I am there with her. I am watching her out the window right now though, so I could come and talk...

I am getting her help...she will be seeing soon the sort that prescribes meds...her therapist thinks she needs them..and so I agreed to have her seen...I do believe it honestly really is a family trait...a genetic mess up in my family line. We all suffer depression...Lina confessed to me today she often feels sad,lonely and like no one loves her...(man can I relate...)...

I had thought Dougal would have been a help truthfully but I think it backfired....She has become more worried about his health..that it affecting her depression and bringing her joy.

Things to do...So for now I am going....

Going to upload my pictures to photobucket to list through out this update and add the rest in another post....I have to try to sort out now which is what as we have been taking SO many pictures.....


I almost lost this whole thing so I am going to post it now and come back in to edit in the photos,....I was about to cry lol....


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## Orchid (Dec 6, 2009)

And it would seem RO will not allow me to edit again...must be within two hours it says...hmmm...OK...SO...

"We/I...created this 3 level cardboard box heaven for him...of course he could care less, but he will hide behind it. He will run through the tunnels some...but not alot. But he did spend a few minutes...looking into things...


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## Orchid (Dec 6, 2009)

I picked the couch out I have now on purpose for one shining fact....it is so low to the floor, no bun can get under it or behind it. I did this with Simon in thought, but it is working out great for Dougal as well...






He thinks this is his super secret hide away spot...he comes here after a good run...He thinks I do not hear him pulling on the rug...umhmm..

I SEEEEEEEEE YOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUU





He has that...HOW DARE YOU INVADE MY NAP look to him doesnt he?


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## Orchid (Dec 6, 2009)

The East Regional Library had cookies with Santa yesterday....Oh my good god....I have NEVER seen so many people there...I even took a picture with Santa....






(everyone kept asking about the hat and scarf! Asking me for my card...sigh...I dont have cards  )


















Funny how you never really understand just how heavy you have become till you see a picture of yourself eh? I look like I belong in the ocean...sigh.


and yes this has some serious edit to it LOL...


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## Orchid (Dec 6, 2009)

and now for some random pictures of cuteness...

I also have some video but I am not sure with a locked album if it would show...so I am thinking of putting in another area instead of the Dougal album...He is SO cute...any who...



We sent (well will be on Monday) this picture with Angelina's card to Sarah....Dougal's first mom...






I like these..






I'm crawling up the wall!!! Ok...no I am not but it still loooks coool






CARPET! Is she looking? ****...






YOU CANT GET ME!!!





















Seriously I would like to see him try to pull that off ten pounds from now.....





Dunno why but this has become a favorite of mine..








BOXES!





















I STOLE THE CHAIR WHILE THE DIKINI WAS TAKING A PEE PEE...






snooze time..
















DO YOU MIND!!






SEE!!! I told you it was too bright...


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## Orchid (Dec 6, 2009)

and now playing for a limited time only...the one...the only.....SIR WILLIAM DOUGALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!

It is crappy lighting because of the camera...and because I use such dim bulbs...


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## Orchid (Dec 9, 2009)

I really dont know how much worse my day can become.

Lets start with Dougal before the drama.

That mass I found on Dougal....is not going down, going away...is not growing either though.

He has not been acting so great. Any time I let him out of his cage he runs and than starts eating the carpet...we keep trying to stop him, but every other second he starts pulling at it...and chewing it....so we end up putting him up. He has been biting more and more and leaving some nice bruises on Lina...on me...

So now on to the fun stuff.

There was a problem with my x's unemployment and so my child support did not come last night...but my auto payment for water went out anyway....so now I have until 8pm to get the funds into my account before the over draft fees hit.

Called the x all day and just now he tells me there was a problem. He could have told me days ago and I could have stopped the payment...but why should he do something so kind as to be nice to me...

My daughter is on the phone asking him to please help her/us...so my bank account can get settled ok and so we can go make the gingerbread houses tomorrow and the rabbit show on Saturday...

He wont. He is yelling at her and telling her it is adult stuff she cant understand...she asks....why do you always let me down...he gets angry....yells...I get on the phone and he says how dare I allow this to just go on and on...and hangs up....He has turned his phone off and will not answer the calls now.

I have no idea when the money will start coming again as I have no idea what is going on with his unemployment stuff.

It is the worst feeling in the world to promise your daughter something....try to fix it, be unable to and have her see you break down and cry just cause of stress alone.

I feel so incredibly emotionally spent...

For everything...that was going ok....life just dipped down to REALLY bad...


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## kahlin (Dec 10, 2009)

You sound really down.  I hope things pick up for you soon.

I loved the pics. Thanks for sharing.


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## Orchid (Dec 10, 2009)

some how..100 dollars magically found its way to me...

Thank you....

Perhaps I should start believing in xmas again....


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## kahlin (Dec 10, 2009)

I hope that is just a start of improvements for you.


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## hln917 (Dec 10, 2009)

*Orchid wrote: *


> some how..100 dollars magically found its way to me...


The bunny fairy?





[line]


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## Orchid (Dec 11, 2009)

Not quite...just some very nice people where I work... They even went and bought her two pairs of jeans today...
While I feel embarressed...I feel very humbled by how every one wants to help us...and they have never even met my daughter.....

I opened the presents my mom sent to my daughter...they came today...most was junk to throw away...but there was an awesome shirt...it has a bunny on it! She is excited to wear it tomorrow to the rabbit showings...I normally dont mess with presents but I felt compelled to this time....


About Dougal...
His butt/tail area looks bigger to me every time I look at him lol..so I think he is gaining weight. I do need to take him in to at least get a weight on him...
This strange mass...it does not seem to bother him...it is still there, it has not changed since I first saw it. Not smaller, not larger...I do not know what to make of it. He is having stool issues again...gave a bit of Bene today,...

He is sooooo about Angelina....he will go sit with her...go to her side when we stand by his pen...he looks for her attention! 
He is still being a dork about the carpet...
He likes to mess up his grass mat...
He likes tearing up boxes....


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## Orchid (Dec 12, 2009)

her shirt looks something like this....minus the words...and the color is pink



[ame=http://www.cafepress.com/+my_bunny_kids_light_ts,119197314]http://www.cafepress.com/+my_bunny_kids_light_ts,119197314[/ame]


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## TinysMom (Dec 12, 2009)

I so need that shirt in an adult size.....

I think you're probably at the show as I type this (or on your way home) and I'm dying to hear how it went.

I'm sure you had fun....I love shows.

I love all the pictures of Dougal - he's such a sweetie.

And it was cool to see pics of you and your daughter too - how neat!


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## Orchid (Dec 13, 2009)

So...We went to the show in Sanford NC yesterday...

It was a small show which I think was actually rather nice. We were able to talk to people, had lunch with them...asked questions...and no one seemed rude, in a rush etc. I think going to a small show like that was a great idea/move.






We were not sure we were in the right place till we saw this little tiny yellow sign that said Rabbit Show. So we pulled in, parked, hopped out and saw some people right away...they said hello to us and we went on inside...






My daughters face lit up the second we got off our coats and took a look around....wow! So many real live buns in one place...her ADD kicked in big time. Mom MOM MOM look look look...lol...I heard that for about the first hour!

We took a small stroll around the room and saw this guy putting the ink in the ears...so we stopped to see what that was like...as Dougal does not have his mark yet. Angelina of course spotted the small baby right away and asked if she could hold her.....Turns out this isa litter of ten weeks old. 4 girls, 1 boy broken black mini rex. Never really handled or held I am told. 











and yes even I had to hold the baby!






We talked to PJ for a little while but Angelina was in a hurry to see all the buns so we moved on to the Dutch....











This man was very nice and explaining things..but I do not think Angelina heard a word....

We walked around fora bit...Angelina hung out a tad with some other kids there...and than lunch time came...let us just say that it was....interesting...

After lunch....where did she go?






There was this guy I think named Paul who was talking to others about the qualities of the mini rex, what the standards are etc...Angelina of course hogged all the babies time on the table....

I did try to watch the judging...but honestly I could not see behind the boxes to understand what they were doing....I heard some comments..."more in the shoulders" "stained bottom, I dont like to see stains on brokens"....things like that. This one judge was a pretty funny guy...I liked him...but from a few looks I had the feeling he didnt care for a particular person showing...but whatever...






Some lion heads we passed by..






bunnies!






They had a costume show too!






Now I liked this one so very much I even asked the little girl with him if she would lift the top so I could take his picture....well he ended up winning for best costume...see...I have great taste...lol






This was a nice woman we spent some time talking to...she had a dutch as you can see but said her bun was not the right colors so it was DQ'd...it did not win the DQ contest either...
















This is the little girl who had the bun that won the costume contest...






Lina watched the judging of this...











NOW!!! Meet a very awesome bun I fell so in love with..that if I could run away with him I would have....






It is a min rex...broken chin...OMG!

It was SO friendly and loving...SO SOFT! Softer than Simon was...it was so cool! The owner...Keith....said he has been trying to breed them, but alas everyone seems to have permanat PMS....I gave him my number and told him to call me should he have a litter of the broken chin..that rabbit was so cool and super chill too....our pictures did not come out the best and do not do the bun justice in the least but here they are....


















Here they are getting judged..





















It took 2nd....but if you ask me 2nd what...I could not tell you...lol

Keith was nice enough to trust me not to run out the door with his broken chin...so I was able to hold him for awhile!
















and of course we ended up at the same place we started at....






Can you guess why she is pouting?
















and yes...if not for my awesome powers of restraint....we would have bought her and brought her home...I was - that close......






I stalled...I hemmed and hawed...and I did almost walk out of there with her...and her peanut sister...But I had this thought go through my head....sable point...sable point....sable point...

and I knew I could not have all the buns in the world I would like to...so I did the hardest thing like ever! and handed back both baby girls.... 

Random thoughts:

It was pretty small. Not one Flem there....It would seem the flemish group seems to come in a pack (the people said) and without Sarah (dougals breeder) none of them came. I said we should have brought him anyway lol...he would have won!!!


Angelina feltthis...bump... this morning...still there, still the same size, not larger, not smaller and does not bother him.

...he was crawling all over her lap..It warmed my heart so much...and at the same time all I could think was how much I miss Simon.

My allergies kicked up hard core at the show. I keep trying to understand what I may be allergic to...could it be just the hay? All these buns sitting in more hay than Simon ever would or did and so the hay comes with on the fur and that sets me off? Is it the fur itself? Is it the dander in the fur?


Now on Dougal...that bump...lets say it is there and it is scar tissue...never goes away. Would a judge who feels that on him DQ him for that alone? I know his hair has to grow out...which sucks now because there is another show in the same town we were at yesterday on Jan 2nd and I want to bring him so bad and try things out...Should I try even if his hair has not grown back in enough? He would be about 4 months old at that point.

I tried to buy the show cage...but no one...not one...had any for sale. Something about the guy who makes them had back surgery or something...I dunno... Not even sure we would have a freaking cage big enough to take him in..the carrier I have is meant for small buns...it worked for a 2 month old Dougal..not sure it would for a 4 month old...


Suppose thats all for now....

Thinking about the Sable POints....Thinking about all the shows coming...Jan 2, Feb 6, Feb 13th.....and I want to take Angelina to all of them....


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## TinysMom (Dec 13, 2009)

Shows can be SOOOOO addicting - can't they? I can hardly wait to go to a show again.

I love the pictures and all that you wrote about your day...I can't believe you didn't get the two babies...I don't know if I could've resisted.

It looks like it was a great day for you both.


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## Orchid (Dec 13, 2009)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> Shows can be SOOOOO addicting - can't they? I can hardly wait to go to a show again.
> 
> I love the pictures and all that you wrote about your day...I can't believe you didn't get the two babies...I don't know if I could've resisted.
> 
> It looks like it was a great day for you both.



Yeah I find now that the thought of driving 5 hours...well its not soooo bad lol...Honestly I wish I had someone else to do the driving though....I get so tired driving on highways...I scared myself driving back..kept feeling like I was gonna fall asleep...hate that...

 yeah....I dont know how I resisted either....I had two cuties held to my chest and both seemed quite content to be there...the smaller one seemed sweeter...but I could feel her bones...so I was torn between the two ...and than I was like NO...stick to sable...I didnt bring the carrier on purpose...that would be like admitting we are buying and bringing home a bunny today......I sent Roger another email...mentioned I think I might like a buck and doe...I will wait to hear from him...but I honestly feel it would be worth the trip from NC to NH....make a pit stop in NY and see all my old friends! and perhaps some new ones! hint hint Cathy lol....

Perhaps it is the new med I am on that is helping that horrible lack of impulse control lol.....Only been on it about a week...and I feel so much better....Lina seems to think I am very different. Strange to think there could be a change so fast..I explained it to someone the other day that if I described a normal moment in time,...it is like I always have this ball of hate,anger, everything bad inside...with me every minute of every day...and now....now I feel like some one bounced it right out of me...That feeling is gone...Who knows for sure though..I could just be cycling into a mania...just doesnt feel that way is all

Have lots of questions and thoughts about breeding now...I think I will start doing some serious reading...Angelina likes the idea as well...but hey what kid wouldnt right? lol...

I wish I could actually buy a house...something I have wanted for years now...but even more so lately. Perhaps actually have that barn...just not the horses I dreamed of once housed in it..but buns.

The house is getting cold..dropped below 60 now...

I ran out to the shed and grabbed up this old plug in the wall heater we had from a few houses ago....thank goodness it still works. I have it in my bedroom...it is helping some..and will keep us ok through the night...I am NOT looking forward to the morning though...ah!

I dropped a crap load of hay into his litter pan and put another blanket in there...I dont know what else to do for him...as I can NOT have him in my room....sigh...

The landlord is talking about getting a new ac unit thingy installed...I am wondering though...how long would that take though?


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## Orchid (Dec 14, 2009)

Update...

So last night the heat stopped working. While this sucked it made my landlord cave and buy a whole new unit which will save me tons of money on my bill....so says the guy putting it in.... It went out probably like 24 hours ago...

It has become cold enough in the house that I can see my breath....Even though my room has a small heater in it...not enough to make much difference...but it made sleeping tolerable in here...

Poor Dougal...he trashed his caged...threw everything around, upside down , from here to there...He looked so very unhappy.....

I put blankets down on the bed, brought in a litter pan, bowl of oats and some water....We did...O Kay....We had some more lessons about who the boss in the house is...He did not like my opinion...but I think we made a small amount of progress.....Yet when he would not stop trying to get down from the bed I had to crate him...He knew too....some how he knew (my room is too messy ) I wanted him on the bed. He was doing binky after binky in the same place...not running ya know...it was weird and awesome....

I lasted an hour before my allergies over came my pity...and he would not stop trying to get down anyway...so I did crate him but threw in another blanket just in case...he is cuddled into them...and I do not think he likes the cold....he just looks plain miserable.....

I think the dude might be done...I hear noise and smell something funny...and somehow it does smell....new....


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## Orchid (Dec 14, 2009)

I was wrong about the location for the next show...it is further away....3 hours away, one way...177 miles or something like that...sigh...


[ame=http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=embed&hl=en&geocode=&view=map&q=170+Fairgrounds+Road,+Taylorsville,+NC+28681&sll=35.945605,-79.89535&sspn=1.992233,3.510132&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=170+Fairgrounds+Rd,+Taylorsville,+Alexander,+North+Carolina+28681&ll=35.889198,-81.187055&spn=0.062304,0.109692&z=13]View Larger Map[/ame]

I was looking at Dougal today and trying to see...His coat is not very nice, that patch has started to grow in, but I doubt it will be alright by the 2nd of Jan....He had a red spot on his neck but I am not sure what that is from...I will watch it...His eyes and teeth look good, he is playful, though I think he is too boney..Just from the feel of the rabbits I held at the show...he seems so skeletal in comparrison. His back legs look dirty and icky... I keep his nails trimmed...for my own sanity...and honestly...he is actually really good about being picked up..carried..it is the setting down that is an issue...that whole falling thing I suppose...

number 1 on my daughters list for what she wanted this year was the flemish giant membership....I sent that in at the end of Nov with a note that my daughter wanted it for xmas...I know she received it but has not sent out our stuff yet...We have ten days to xmas....this SUCKS...she sent me an email that was rather short about how busy she is...I was not happy. We all have lives.....

I am trying to figure out what to do about Dougal...I have thought about the Hutch but the idea worries me on many levels...our NC heat being a huge one...It is not the hay...it is Dougal...and it SUCKS...This was the same with Isobel...it is not the hay , it is the fur of the animal...and I have begun to wonder...was Simon a true gift,...a fluke...because at the show I was getting all sneezy...and even though I was around the rex , so I was around the others...and I can not help but wonder if it is all rabbits, even the rex...

This is something I feel I need to discover...but for now...

I will list my daughter bedroom set on CL..I will try to sell it and not be greedy, but ask for what I paid...and I intend to buy her something like a daybed...This will open her room greatly...as the dresser she has now takes up the whole of one wall...The house we were living in at the time I got it...was much larger and this set suited it fine...but now here in this house...it has been nothing but a constant problem...such heavy stuff I can not lift it even with help...
I have to try to figure out how to transport him...The carrier we have now...I am rather sure he will not fit in...at least he can not stand..he would have to lay down the whole time and for being at a show...no...
If I can sell it...get her the daybed...I will move Dougal in pronto and her room will simply have to remain closed unless he comes out to play. He has NO issues walking on any surface...I thought about trying to put him in the kitchen but again I do not think that is realistic at all...

I can not tell if the house is getting warmer or not...when the thing on the wall turned back on it showed the house to be at 52....all I want to do is curl back under the covers...


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## Orchid (Dec 30, 2009)

We lost Dougal today.

It has been a most horrible holiday season and this was the cake topper....

Fate really needs to back up off us and let us have some joy and goodness that can last a bit....Feeling rather angry...


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## Fancy77 (Dec 30, 2009)

OMG I AM SO SORRY!!!


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## kahlin (Jan 2, 2010)

I'm so sorry for your loss.


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## Orchid (Mar 23, 2011)

I can only imagine how demented it must seem to people to say I dug up my dead rabbit, but I did. Simon died during a time when the ground was soft enough that we could dig and bury him. Dougal I gave to the vet because I simply did not know what else to do. 
Angelina is most concerned about Simon getting left behind if we should move, which we will at some point.
So the other day...I dug him up. I found as much of him as possible and I washed him off. My neighbor is going to weld him shut into a box for me and I will create a wood plaque for the top we will glue on that we can carry with us wherever we may go. Maybe one can say we go too far for this bun..but we did love him in a way that went beyond anything we understood to begin with.... When talking with Lina the other day I came to understand she still has not forgiven me for letting the vet put him down that day. Truth be told my heart torn in two...I have not forgiven myself for letting him be sick enough to die..as if some how I could have stopped it 

So now I have Simon's bones sitting here waiting to be boxed in forever...lucky my neighbor is a welder. It was not as hard as I thought to do this thing..but it was hard to pull him from the ground.. It will make Lina happy to have him with her forever and for that I can not be sorry... The things we do for our children.. The price we pay to make up for not being able to save him...


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## Orchid (Mar 23, 2011)

Baby (Who should have been known as Jasper)

Born 11/27/09 Purchased 2/26/10 from RiverBank Aviary (Laura) 
un-banded Male


So...We brought home Baby,....hence named at first because he was one of the age and then because of temperment. He is a cockateil. Smart buggar but has some serious problem with being apart from other birds or me. He was the last to go from his nest and he just can not tolerate being too far away from us. He will scream and scream if you are in the house and in a different room then him....

So today I came home after a long day to a screaming baby and go to see him stuck in his corner pouting. Had not eaten. So I take him out put him on the top of his cage with his dish and he starts eating right away...Like I said...Big Baby..lol
So after some play and clean up I put him back in and sit on the edge of my bed. He is going down to his dish, picking up one pellet, climbing back up to his perch and eating and doing this over and over...so I crouch down to level with the floor of his cage and he stops and hangs out eating at the bottom....I sit back up straight up and he starts the up and down with the pellets again....too funny. I love my wacka doodle.


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## Orchid (Mar 24, 2011)

I suppose it is normal to be afraid, to feel afraid to have another bun. To even consider the choice again.

There are so many things that need to fall into place before anything really can happen. Like my landlord.

1: Talk to landlord in June when we resign my lease and see if she will agree to add on the choice of getting a bun again. She agreed to it once, I do not see why she would not agree to it again.

2: I have a care credit card now maxed out on dental care, but I have been slowly and I mean very slowly paying it off. I would need to make major payments and clear the card off before bringing a bun home so we could do the first vet visits on that and anything of dire need after. We have a $1000.00 limit on the card.

Those are the top two things that would pave the way before much more thought is put into anything more besides I would like to find the local breeders in my area for the rex and lionheads in my area and talk to them at least. Or try to find the shows again. That would be another door. I think Angelina would enjoy them without too much pain in her heart for it...


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## Orchid (Jan 21, 2014)

I've been gone a long time. Bunless, petless etc for pretty much this whole time. 
A few fish along the way though. 
We had a beta, Friday... He passed on a couple of days ago. So we went fish hunting yesterday.
Lina brought home another - named this one Oscar. 
Darn if we didn't come across some of the cutest ever buns.
There is this little guy with blue eyes. Mini lop... sat right up and was all like love me. Ugh.
It's been a very long time since we've had a bun. 
We got rid of everything we had. Even the nic panels. Didn't Think I could do it again.
Brushes, bowls, books... Even the info in my mind. I've been searching that thinking... Hay? Where & which kinds. 
This guy is a real little lover. Cute cuddler, puddle of snuggle awesome. 
I moved a lot since I was last here. 
North Carolina to Colorado to New York to Maryland now. Just a step to get overt the border to Delaware where this bun actually is. 
We are in an apartment now. Need to ask the landlord first. I'll do it tomorrow. Part me actually hopes he says no. Make that choice for me.
I've already made up my mind though if he says yes. 
I don't even know if it's a boy or girl. 
Didn't care. It was like this little perfect connection of wow. 
Now I can't stop wondering, do we have another bun in our future and if so... Can it just go okay.. Just no problems and let it be okay?


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## Azerane (Jan 21, 2014)

I think if it's meant to work out with this bun, then it will. Still, I'm hoping for the best that your landlord says yes.

I was personally offended the other day when literally one day after my cat of 18 years passed away someone at work asked me whether I was going to get another one. I mean, I understand the reason for the question, but no way will I be getting another cat any time soon, it just doesn't feel right. Give me time to grieve.

I guess what I'm saying is, that if this feels right for you, then I think you should definitely go for it


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## Orchid (Jan 21, 2014)

Thanks Azerane! Yeah I know what you mean. 
It's been so long. I wouldn't even look at the buns honestly. So this is just weird. A meant to be kind of thing maybe. 

I spoke with the landlord. He was like, so it will be in a cage most of the time right? Sure sure. Lol.
He said yes. I called the girl & said hold him...her.
It's snowing like crazy right now. Probably Can't go till Thursday to bring this mini home. 
Really can't wait though. 
Wish it was now. 
Trying to remember what were the things things we bought where...


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## Orchid (Jan 21, 2014)

The mini


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## Chrisdoc (Jan 21, 2014)

No wonder you couldn´t resist her, that face is so adorable. She sure is a lucky bunny and I´m sure when you get her home, it will be as though you´d never been without a bunny. I will catch up on the rest of your blog, I´ve read backwards but I think I need to start at the beginning. 

Can´t wait till you get her home, hope we get lots more pics.


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## Aubrisita (Jan 21, 2014)

Aw, that is an irresistible face, for sure. Congrats.


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## Orchid (Jan 21, 2014)

@Chrisdoc... I'm sure we will overload with pictures. It isn't as hard to upload from my phone as I thought it would be. Though it came out sideways for me. 
Being stuck home in this snow is killer but we are making the most of it. 
Thinking planning etc. 
Going over what needs to be moved, covered or blocked off. 

I've been thinking of going back over the whole blog myself but part of me doesn't want to revisit all of it. Just move forward.


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## Orchid (Jan 21, 2014)

@Aubrisita. Yeah killer cutie there. When I called and asked how we were today, my update was frolicking in the hay


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## Azerane (Jan 22, 2014)

What an absolute cutie!  So glad that your landlord said yes


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## Chrisdoc (Jan 22, 2014)

Just read it from the start, what a lovely bun Dougal was and how you looked after and cared and loved him in his short life. So glad I went back and read your story. 

This little bunny will be so lucky to be with you and I can´t wait for you to bring him/her home. I see that indeed you love pics so I, for one, will be so happy to see lots of this cute bunny.


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## Orchid (Jan 22, 2014)

I found out it is a girl. They said her birthday is around December 2.. That would be like only 7 weeks old. :/
They said she's a Blue Eyed Otter Mini Lop.

Got her some oxbow...Alfalfa, Botanical, Oat & Timothy Hay... Oxbow Alfalfa young rabbit food/pellets.
Two grass mats. A wicker basket that's holding all the hays. A bunch of different toys. Apple sticks. A water crock & bottle. Not sure she'll take the crock.

She likes empty paper bags. 
She's afraid of any surface that isn't very flat carpet.
Doesn't like my wood floors. I wonder if that will last. 

She ate a few pieces of romaine. Snacking on pellets and hay.
A bit of running. No binkys as of yet. She's as tiny as could be.


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## Orchid (Jan 22, 2014)

More pictures


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## mmfh (Jan 22, 2014)

She is absolutely beautiful!!


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## Orchid (Jan 23, 2014)

We woke up today to poop all over. No cecals anywhere to be seen. 
Water crock empty. 
I had put a 1/4 cup of pellet out last night yesterday... It was empty this morning too.
I didn't see pee spots anywhere. 
Still not digging high places, shelves, anything not very flat carpet. 

She was running & did some binkys this morning.


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## Chrisdoc (Jan 23, 2014)

She is just so adorable, I love her colouring. I know you´ll be worried but this is one bun who´s here to stay. I really do look forward to seeing loads more pics and lots more news. I fill my paper bags with hay for them to find. You could put some rugs on the wooden floor to make it not so slippery. 

I went back and read Simon´s story last night. I cried my eyes out but he was such as special little boy and you are such a special bunny mommy. There are tears in my eyes as I write this now. Every time I read about one of these little angels leaving us I feel so lucky to have my three boys and will cherish every minute with them. 

She seems like a happy little bunny. Welcome little lady. What will you call her ?


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## Azerane (Jan 25, 2014)

Oh goodness me, she is absolutely gorgeous! How precious. Hope she continues to settle in well


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## Orchid (Jan 25, 2014)

Chrisdoc said:


> She is just so adorable, I love her colouring. I know you´ll be worried but this is one bun who´s here to stay. I really do look forward to seeing loads more pics and lots more news. I fill my paper bags with hay for them to find. You could put some rugs on the wooden floor to make it not so slippery.
> 
> I went back and read Simon´s story last night. I cried my eyes out but he was such as special little boy and you are such a special bunny mommy. There are tears in my eyes as I write this now. Every time I read about one of these little angels leaving us I feel so lucky to have my three boys and will cherish every minute with them.
> 
> She seems like a happy little bunny. Welcome little lady. What will you call her ?



I did pick up some gray carpet from home Depot. She'll walk & run on that. If she really wants to she will go on the hard floor but it's this weird wattle walk. It's kind of funny. 
We've been tossing around names. 
Lala, Fia, and Sloane. Sloane is what's seems to have stuck...

We've seen her run and jump and even completely turn her whole body around in a circle in the air.
She is so so so tiny. 

She's afraid of things though. Heights. She won't go check out the shelves I made in her cage.... Okay. 
Yet she'll come up on the couch. I made pillow steps. She'll run up those, check things out & ever so carefully go back down like she's afraid she'll fall. 
Every morning the 1/4 cup of pellet is gone & I refill it. 
This morning her cecals were in the cage. 
So no romaine for her today.
It's messed up our morning get to be friends routine but oh well. 
She keeps coming to my knees looking for it. 

Every day is like the same have to reassure her all is well and its okay to come and play.
It has only been a few days. 
She only pees in a few places. (Thank you God I'm not one of them)
We got this Brown basket for her to chew..
No. It is now the potty basket. 
She'll go to it to pee or poop & sometimes eat the hay in it. No biggie. I've kept a pee pad under it. I just throw it out at the end of the day & rinse the basket off.
I'm wondering how long the basket will be okay for. Hmmm

Can't get a handle on what hay she likes. It seems to change. Nothing wrong with that.

I feel....A bit safe like things might be okay?
Things were off from go with Simon. 
Even Dougal had issues. 

Dunno it's like I want to feel alright like all will be well. Just hard to trust it. I'm trying not to read too much into her not eating her cecals today. 
She's running. She's playing. She's nibbling on hay. She's eating her pellets right now. 

Oh and we did cut the back of the brown bag off & made it a tunnel... She likes that. 
She doesn't chew on anything though except her hay. 
While the cords to all my electronics are happy about that I wish she would chew things. 
I did buy this soft mat thing from Walmart you can either freeze or microwave. I intend to use it in the summer. My place doesn't have a/c.

I'll look into more toys soon.


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## Orchid (Jan 25, 2014)

I wish the pictures would load normal from my phone. Not sideways.


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## Orchid (Jan 25, 2014)

I am sitting on the couch using the mini computer...it is easier to do a thing or two. Sloane has come round a time or two and approached the pillows to come up and taken a look at it like..what in the hell is that and gone back the way she came. lol...

I had found one store that sold Oxbow hay...it wasn't the most stellar looking hay either but it did in a pinch. It was maybe 30 or so bucks for the 3 small bags and 1 large. 
I went onto Sweet Meadows site just now and ordered the 9lbs of Alfalfa Hay and the 40oz of 1st cut Timothy for her. I am wondering how long it will take for her to go through that. 
It cost about the same amount of money for that as it did for Oxbow.
I can only hope she likes their hay...

She is playing at being speed racer right now. I love seeing it 
2 minutes at it and she wipes her self out.
Wish my phone would send video....


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## Orchid (Jan 25, 2014)

So I took a bunch of pictures just a bit ago..and for that..she went over to the pee pad and when I laid down next to her she turned around and peed right next to me lol. At least it was still on the pad.
Guess she wasn't happy with me.


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## Orchid (Jan 25, 2014)

So I was looking over old threads and things and came across one about BunnyBale. It looks like they have a retail store right by where this new vet is we will be going to. I might have to pop in when we go.

[email protected]com
1-800-548-2899
2109-A Columbia Park Drive 
Edgewood, MD 21040


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## Orchid (Jan 25, 2014)

Ugh. I was cleaning up poop & hay over by the pee pad a minute ago. She comes over and I'm getting head butted and all so I put my hand out to see what's up cause she really won't tolerate me head rubbing her and all.

She does the bunny marking you thing with the chin rub and than bites me rather hard. 
Brat!
I'm the one picking up your poop you adorable ball of fur!

So I told her no, gently put her head down and moved on. 
I don't think she likes me over by the pee pad/willow basket/hay.....


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## Orchid (Jan 26, 2014)

It is a worrisome morning.


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## Orchid (Jan 26, 2014)

It's not many people that are happy to see poop.

Nothing all day. Terrified of stasis. Then, poop. Pee. But it had to be in the basket on the pee pad. 
Used a vibrating massager on her tummy right before. I wonder if that helped.


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## JBun (Jan 26, 2014)

Sent a pm. I hope your bun is feeling better. It's so worrying when they aren't pooping, and such a relief when they finally do.


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## Orchid (Jan 29, 2014)

So according to Fedex...I don't live in my home -
Delivery exception
Incorrect address - Street number

I call like man, I need that. It's yummy stuff for my bunny.
All like too bad the guys off the truck for the day. They'll try again tomorrow. 

I'm kinda annoyed. We were really looking forward to giving her that today.


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## Orchid (Jan 30, 2014)

I just can't relax till a vet looks her over. Dr. Gold is booked up. So I said okay to Dr. Yuri at the same practice. We go this evening at 4:30. 
I just need them to tell me she looks good, her poops good and relax basically I guess. 

I don't think she'll be very happy with me. 
It's a 45 minute ride one way.


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## lovelops (Jan 30, 2014)

Orchid said:


> I just can't relax till a vet looks her over. Dr. Gold is booked up. So I said okay to Dr. Yuri at the same practice. We go this evening at 4:30.
> I just need them to tell me she looks good, her poops good and relax basically I guess.
> 
> I don't think she'll be very happy with me.
> It's a 45 minute ride one way.



Let us know how it goes. I'm like you. I start to worry if I don't see pooh
for my lop also... I hope the visit goes well and everything is normal!

I'm here in Maryland also...

Vanessa


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## lovelops (Jan 30, 2014)

mmfh said:


> She is absolutely beautiful!!



I second that . What a cutie!

Vanessa


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## lovelops (Jan 30, 2014)

She is so damned adorable... 

Vanessa


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## Orchid (Jan 30, 2014)

Thanks Vanessa! 

I'm glad I went. She is indeed a girl. She weighs a whopping 1 pound 15 ounces. The vet doesn't think she will grow to be bigger than 3 maybe 4 pounds. 
She felt she looked alert, active and all. Said her stomach sounded and felt good. Felt good poo in there.
Said there was a lot of fur in her poo though. 
Wants me giving her:
Papaya tablets. 1 a day. 
1 cc of pineapple juice if she's getting really hairy poop.
She has Coccidia...
They put her on:
SMZ TMP .27cc twice a day for 14 days &
Bene Bac 1 gram for 15 days

The bill was 80 something for all the meds, exam, & fecal. I don't think that's too bad overall. 

Giving her all that when we came home? Not fun. 
She doesn't like the Papaya... Had to break it up & wait for her to chew. 
The Bene ended up smeared on her fur on her face. 
Sigh. 
She was doing a bunch of that back leg flicking thing as she went around her pen making sure all her things were still there sort of thing. 

I feel much better we went. 
The vet said over all she looks great. 
If course recommended spaying especially if she is biting already but I planned on that. 
Her small weight worries me with that but we will cross it when we get there. 
She did mention that if she's tiny for her breed and size. A real mini. They all oooo and ahhhhed on her lol

I have great pictures from today but I want to wait till I send them to the computer so they aren't uploaded sideways lol.


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## lovelops (Jan 30, 2014)

Orchid said:


> So I was looking over old threads and things and came across one about BunnyBale. It looks like they have a retail store right by where this new vet is we will be going to. I might have to pop in when we go.
> 
> [email protected]
> 1-800-548-2899
> ...



Hey

Let me know if you go to the store and how it is. I might drive up there
and check it out and pick up some things for my little monsters!

Vanessa


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## Orchid (Jan 30, 2014)

lovelops said:


> Hey
> 
> Let me know if you go to the store and how it is. I might drive up there
> and check it out and pick up some things for my little monsters!
> ...



I called before I went out that way today. They had no idea what I was talking about. NAN distribution. 
Bunnybale hasn't updated their website I guess in awhile. 
The location in PA looks active but that's like an hour & 40 minutes from me. 
I tried emailing to ask, but no one has gotten back to me. 
That always seems to be part for the course. 
Takes too long for them to answer.


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## Orchid (Jan 31, 2014)

Medication morning - not fun. 

I took my time cleaning up. Washed out the litter pans. Picked up every poo I could locate. 
I exiled her to the living room. She makes me feel guilty lol. Looks longingly at her pen. 
The vet said it's good to keep her moving and eating etc. 
When she's in her pen and we're awake she hides. 
If we have her in the living room she'll play and sleep and whatever. 
Right now she's in a paper bag attacking the inside or something. Her head will pop out, she'll bump the top and disappear again. 
Her pellets were in her water bowl this morning. Can't figure how she managed that one. 

She completely freaked when I went to pick her up for meds. She knew. Ugh.
My thumb got chomped pretty good trying to get the Papaya in there. 
That's everything till the SMZ again later tonight. 
Right after she cleans her face like ugh. You human. You dare defile my fur! It's cute .


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## Orchid (Jan 31, 2014)

So she's been real picky and not really eating her hay today. Sleepy and stuff. 
Not a bunch of poo.
I called the vet....
They said try 5 cc of water every 4 hours. 
If she's still not acting herself by morning bring her in. 
Talking about fluids and another med for her tummy. 

The said the amount of coccidia in her was crazy.


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## JBun (Jan 31, 2014)

You probably need a pain med like metacam, and possibly a gut motility med, if her pooping has slowed down, though I'm not quite sure how that works with cocci being involved. You do want to ensure she stays hydrated, but you also want to keep her eating something too, if you can. The vet will probably give you a syringe feeding mix tomorrow. It may just be the slowdown and GI upset is from the antibiotics and cocci die off. Did the vet advise you to restrict the diet at all? Often a hay only diet is suggested for a rabbit with this. The increased fiber helps with the motility issues, and restricting sugars and carbs helps reduce harmful bacteria overgrowth problems. But this all won't matter until your bun is eating again on it's own.

Simethicone or infant gas drops, may be helpful, but there again it's hard to know what's going on with coccidiosis involved.
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

If the antibiotic doesn't seem to be working out, there is another med out there that seems to be much more effective against the coccidia protozoa. It's called ponzuril or toltrazuril, but it is pretty expensive. It may be worth asking your vet about.
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Parasitic/Coccidiosis_Hedgehog.htm
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/2009/7/coccidia-rabbits-treating-ponazuril.htm

You may also want to ask if any clostridium bacteria was found in the stool sample, or you may want another tested. Clostridium can occur secondary to the coccidia, and needs to be treated with a different antibiotic(metronidazole). Also ask your vet about sanitation and what to use, to minimize the risk of reinfection.

I'm really sorry your poor bun is sick. Hopefully the vet can get you all sorted with the meds you need for your bun to get through this.


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## lovelops (Feb 1, 2014)

How's your baby doing today? I hope she is improving. At least she was playing with the paperbag which is a good thing..
Keep us posted. She's and you of course are in my thoughts..

Vanessa


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## Orchid (Feb 1, 2014)

So I have a moment to sit and swipe in my phone for a few minutes.

Last night ended great. She was running, playing, zooming back and forth . Up and down from the floor to the couch. I put a handful of hay in her pen turned around and it was gone. Gave her another. 
I thought, this is good. Everything is going to be fine. 
I had some things pop up that kept me up late. I slept in. 

Got up around 10, cleaned everything up and was thinking about a few things while I was. 
Like why didn't I ask for critical care? Why didn't the vet send me home with it..
I started getting annoyed thinking about it. 
She didn't bother to come out and talk to me about the fecal test. Or send me home with the "reading" she said she was going to. 
But she made sure to sell me papaya tablets.
I had to ask her to check to make sure she was a girl. Shouldn't she have done that on her own? 
I dunno. The more I started thinking about it the more annoyed I got. The more mad at myself I got too. They didn't talk to me about disinfecting anything or prevention of reinfection...
So clean up was over this morning -
I'm thinking maybe I need to pick a different vet? 
Med time. We get that over with. 
No pineapple juice this morning. I decided not to give it. 
And I couldn't get her to eat the Papaya anyway. 

A little while goes by and I notice. 
No poop. Her pellets looks remarkably untouched.
She looks dull, sad, droopy eyes and all. Sigh. 

I cracked open canned pumpkin. She doesn't want it. I watered it down and syringe her a bit. 
Encouraged get to eat hay, drink etc. 
She already had her Bene Bac & gas drops.
She perked up. She did eat some hay a bit. Piles of cecals that look...too brown?
She's peed a bunch of times on the pee pad. It looks different. Cleaner almost. Not as Brown. 
I still wasn't liking the look of things. I broke out the romaine. I did. She loves that stuff. I smeared pumpkin all over it. She ate it. Grudgingly but she did. So it was like pumpkin romaine salad.
That kicked off some hay eating, running around, and first pellet eating of the day. 

She seems much better to me. Just tired now. 
She's been flopping and rolling herself around in her litter pan. 
At the moment she's lamp chopped on her carpet falling asleep.

I've been reading trying to understand how to make my own critical care. 
How much to give when. 
How much fluid intake she needs. 
I think I have that... Maybe like around 5 tablespoons per day at least? Ugh I suck at math.
So her water bowl is full and I'm watching how much she's drinking on her own. 
It is annoying to read about reglan...I have that in pill form. My daughter takes that for migraines. I wish I knew if it was necessary and if so how I could properly give it, but I don't so I won't. 

The vet we saw did not restrict diet at all. 
Wanted to maybe do iv fluids & a motility drug she mentioned over the phone when we spoke yesterday but was wishy washy like. 
I'm tapped right now so either way we need to just push through & get by till the 4th. 
I need to decide if we should switch vets. I'm not feeling very good about this Dr. Urie at the moment but maybe I'm just upset with myself.

Every morning seems sucky and suckier then the last till we push through and then things are better.


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## Orchid (Feb 1, 2014)

Thanks for caring guys & checking in.


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## Chrisdoc (Feb 1, 2014)

Just catching up here and a lot has happened. So sorry to hear she's not so well but you are doing a fantastic job taking care of her, she is very lucky. I tried Papaya tablets with mine and the didn't like them. I give them dried papaya as a treat an they love it. I would probably only keep the food from one day to the next and Jenny's idea of freezing is good. You must have a headache from all those questions going around in your head. You could try making a list of the questions you would have liked the vet to ask and have a discussion with her before you make a decision. Don't know if you have other rabbit savvy vets in your area. She's such a pretty little girl. Thinking of you both and lots of nose rubs from my boys


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## JBun (Feb 1, 2014)

Yeah, I had my own recent vet visit and annoyance. I got the one med I wanted and felt I needed(though I wish now I had got a prescription and not bought from them), and was convinced to give another, I hated the vets manner, and felt like I was being gouged by the time I made it out of there. The meds were sold for ridiculous amounts, and the vet was condescending and dismissive. I was so annoyed by the time I made it out of there, that I almost wanted to go straight to a different vet, even though I really didn't need to at this point, to just rid myself of the experience.

By what you were prescribed and the other things recommended to give to your rabbit, it almost sounds to me like a vet with old school knowledge. Not always necessarily bad, but there have been a lot of advances and changes in rabbit medicine, and I would want my vet to be up to date with it all. Of course that doesn't always work either. The vet I saw was moderately current, and I couldn't stand her  And will never go back if at all possible.

Pineapple and papaya are such debatable subjects. There are many people that swear that it works, but then there may be evidence that it doesn't. I've never used it and would never suggest using it, just for the fact that any rabbit with digestive issues is going to be extra vulnerable to excess sugars. It can be just the thing that harmful bacteria needs to grab hold. I worry enough having to use meds with a sugar suspension, I don't want to be adding any more sugars to the equation. I got curious and found a few interesting bits of info on some old RO threads. Keep in mind the one thread is quite old, so some things may be a bit out of date.
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f27/stasis-pineapple-juice-critical-care-74006/index4.html
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f14/another-tall-tale-enzymes-7199/

So rabbits with digestive problems and GI slowdown, need low sugar/carbs, lots of fiber/moisture. I've got my own bun having this difficulty now. The vet suggested antibiotics for possible UTI, but I wasn't really sure it was needed, but agreed anyways. Mistake. Now my bun has small poop and reduced appetite. And it's a long acting antibiotic, so I'm stuck with the consequences for at least a week. So I've had to drastically change what I'm feeding her in an attempt to keep her digestion moving and prevent full stasis setting in. She normally gets a small amount of pellets, a little bit of carrot and a little leafy lettuce, and unlimited timothy hay. To keep her digestion moving I stopped the pellets and carrot, feeding a lot more green leaf lettuce, changed her hay to a mature high fiber hay, and I've been giving apple branches. Her poops are slightly better, from being a fourth the size of normal, now they are about half the size. But she still won't eat very much, but something is better than nothing. So, I guess my point is that when you have a rabbit with GI problems and slowdown, you have to alter their diet to suit the problem and help correct it. Lots of fiber and fluids, and reduce or cut out carbs and sugars. I feel like leafy greens can be very helpful to get things moving again, so even though your bun isn't used to the romaine, I think it can actually be helpful in softening things up. Though you do have to be careful when a bun isn't used to it. If she will eat enough romaine and hay on her own, you may want to skip the pumpkin and pellets. You do have to keep close track of hay consumption though, and ensure she is actually eating it. But if she won't eat or hardly, then you do have to have something to syringe feed. I prefer critical care, but would do pumpkin over a pellet slurry.

Don't know if the Reglan is truly helpful, but I made sure to pick some up today just in case, even though the vet didn't really recommend it. More $ for the vet. I would rather give it even though it might not help, than not give it and have stasis set in, and later wish that I had. There are some instances when it shouldn't be used though, like if the rabbit has stopped pooping, until the vet rules out a complete blockage, as it is contraindicated in this instance. Might be good to ask your vet about giving it.
http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/GI_stimulation/metoclopramide.htm

Sucks having a sick bun, I know.


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## Orchid (Feb 2, 2014)

JBun said:


> Yeah, I had my own recent vet visit and annoyance. I got the one med I wanted and felt I needed(though I wish now I had got a prescription and not bought from them), and was convinced to give another, I hated the vets manner, and felt like I was being gouged by the time I made it out of there. The meds were sold for ridiculous amounts, and the vet was condescending and dismissive. I was so annoyed by the time I made it out of there, that I almost wanted to go straight to a different vet, even though I really didn't need to at this point, to just rid myself of the experience.
> 
> By what you were prescribed and the other things recommended to give to your rabbit, it almost sounds to me like a vet with old school knowledge. Not always necessarily bad, but there have been a lot of advances and changes in rabbit medicine, and I would want my vet to be up to date with it all. Of course that doesn't always work either. The vet I saw was moderately current, and I couldn't stand her  And will never go back if at all possible.
> 
> ...




You are a wealth of information I am very grateful for. Thank you by the way. Really.

We have just fallen into the oddest routine at this point that I would love to figure out and break.
This vet is rather young to have old school opinions. She looked younger than me and I am 35.
The Dr. Gold there has a good review here on RO Boards....I just couldn't get to see him.
I thought this would be good to set up with them. I can afford their rates, they are about the same distance as the other vets, one in PA and one is DE.
Maybe I will stick with them but not see this Dr. Urie again.
I don't feel good about her. I really don't.

Sloane is doing just fine with the romaine. She isn't having diarrhea. What cecals she is leaving behind looks better today than they have the last few days. She isn't hunching or grinding her teeth in pain. She is perky now that I have her eating again. 
It is the over night that is messing things up. I spend 2-3 hours every morning getting her eating and pooping again.

What is happening during those hours!?!

I hope everything works out okay with your bun. The meds, UTI and all.
I don't ever wish sickness on any bun or owner.
It is such a heartache and sadness.


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## Orchid (Feb 2, 2014)

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/GI_stimulation/metoclopramide.htm

Good read..Thank you JBun

Oh wow. There is no way I could figure how to do that. 
My kiddo has 10mg pills and Sloane isn't even a full Kg....
I would need an actual script dosed out for me I think.

Reglan...
Dosage safe for use in rabbits: 0.5 mg/kg tid - qid, PO, SC.


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## lovelops (Feb 2, 2014)

Reglan is a med personally I would be careful with. That is one of the meds that was given to my mother that had horrible side effects. I know people are going to say short term it's ok, etc, small doses... etc.. however... in seeing what it did
to my mother after long term usage, I would use an alternative medicine instead of reglan for rabbits and people.. this is just my two cents... it can be disregarded ... I just wanted to share..

Vanessa


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## JBun (Feb 2, 2014)

You'd be surprised at how many young rabbit people have old school ideas for treatment. I would have expected different from a young vet though, but who knows. Maybe they still teach these things in vet school. Definitely if you don't feel comfortable with her, try the other vet.

I'm having the same problem with my bun. She seems to get better during the day, then night comes and in the morning she isn't eating again. It could possibly have to do with digestive cycles, inactivity and not eating much during the night, maybe with the timing of when cecotropes are released. Stasis is a long slow process to recovery. I'd forgotten how frustrating it was ullhair:

Yeah, best to leave dosing to the vet  Though at this point, I don't know how much good reglan will be. I'm almost thinking some of the meds might be causing it to continually worsen, at least for my bun. I've had issues with probiotics causing GI slowdown before, so not sure if it might be that or the metacam or reglan. I'm tempted to stop the probiotics myself, since it's debatable whether they are really effective. It's very possible the antibiotics are preventing continued recovery for your bun. I know they are making it quite difficult for my bun to get better.


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## Orchid (Feb 3, 2014)

Last night I tried moving Sloane into the hallway & my bedroom. Thinking like maybe she doesn't like being alone or the smaller pen etc.
So I put down towels on the wooden floors, blocked off getting under the one side of my bed and set her up. 
Everything seemed pretty good. 
Till random moments in the night lol.
She grew bold & dared to cross the floor & went around the other side & got under my bed. I slipped on cecals jumping up & man they smell!!!
A couple of times she woke up pulling on the nic panels trying to move them. Twice I had to get to get her out from under the bed. 
Her poop was better than it has been. 
Who is to say why. 
I was thinking today.... She fights me more when I have to give her the SMZ TMP than say the Bene or gas drops. 
She ate her romaine great again. It's really a jump start to her morning. 
After that she goes right to her hay, eats for a minute, flops and throws herself around in there & than takes a nap. 
It's snowing here. 
I need pee pads & more romaine :/
I'm ever so tired of typing out things on this phone.


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## lovelops (Feb 3, 2014)

It sounds to me like having Sloane in the hallway near you is better! She seems more active! It does sound to me like she doesn't like to be alone and feels more comfortable being near you. At least she's perking up and sounds better! At least to me from what you posted.

It's been raining like crazy at my end of MD. 
I'm sorry to hear you and Sloane are getting snow! 

Vanessa


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## Orchid (Feb 3, 2014)

Ran out for pee pads & romaine. No pads at the store. Ah well. 
Kiddo said when she went in to check on her at one point, she found her on my bed looking out the window. I think that is rather cool. 
Problem is once she's up she can't really get off my bed. 

Got ammonia. Sprayed everything. 
Pen, floor, toys.
Threw out the wicker basket. 
Washed her pen shelf towels. Etc
Took away her carpets for now. I think it's easier to wash towels than clean a carpet for.
She really doesn't like the hallway.
She was fine once we made it back out to the dining room and living room. Had more romaine, ran around, threw in some binkys.
She seems to like laying on the hardwood floors just not walking on them.

So do I sound like a total nutter when I say I counted her poop over the last 3 Days? 
Saturday she was around 350 poops. Same on Sunday. So far today she's at 250. It is very tedious work counting poo.


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## JBun (Feb 3, 2014)

Just make sure to rinse everything sterilized with the ammonia, thoroughly. It is a chemical, and you don't want your bun ingesting or breathing it. Carpets are a hard one. I'm not sure they can be sterilized, but the vet may know of something. Or maybe steam cleaning would work? How's she taking the loss of her beloved basket?

Lol. Not a nutter. I haven't resorted to counting yet, but I do examine them pretty closely. You fit right in here. We're all poop obsessed on RO


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## Orchid (Feb 3, 2014)

I washed the litter pans, toys, food, water dish etc all like 4 times after the ammonia. 

These aren't normal carpets. The gray ones are the crap home Depot cheep ones you buy for 16 bucks. Thin. You know. I moved them, sprayed under, washed the floors, misted the carpets. 
Same with the slightly thicker space carpet in the living room. 

She has been looking for her basket


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## Orchid (Feb 3, 2014)

Pictures


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## Orchid (Feb 3, 2014)

More Pictures


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## JBun (Feb 3, 2014)

Cute pics!!! She's such a cutie and looks so happy  I just love her markings!


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## Orchid (Feb 3, 2014)

Lina and I were just talking ears. I look over and Simons picture is in front of me. 
Honestly, I really miss him at times. 
I don't miss being peed on, having chewed wires, fighting him to eat or a bunch of other things but I miss his mutton chops. I miss the way he would sit with you forever and just lick and love you. 
He would actually clean the X boyfriends goatee. 
He was a special bun. 
He would of been like 7 on Christmas. :/
Ah well. He's got all the carrots & sunshine a bun could wish for now without any pain. 

Here's to better days and MANY of them with Sloane 
Without biting, and tummy trouble and being afraid of the hallway.


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## lovelops (Feb 3, 2014)

Awww poor baby. Are you going to get her a replacement basket?

Vanessa


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## lovelops (Feb 3, 2014)

She is such a cutie. I love her eyes... let's get her through this time and get her back to 100% so you won't have to worry about getting her to take her meds!

Vanessa


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## Orchid (Feb 3, 2014)

lovelops said:


> Awww poor baby. Are you going to get her a replacement basket?
> 
> Vanessa



Not for a little while. That store is in Wilmington I found it for one & two, I would like to try to have a shot at her being all healthy 
Only plastic toys are down & such. I can wash those.

Sigh. She really really hates taking that med. I'm supposed to give it for 14 days. She's never going to come near me at the end of this.


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## Orchid (Feb 4, 2014)

Today seems like a better day. Already poopping. Gave the romaine but no pumpkin. 
She's been trying to hide under the tv stand, go behind the couch and wander all over the place. 
Cleaned everything. 
Washed the towels.
I put out some alfalfa hay. She ate like all of it right up. 
She wouldn't eat the Bene today. She like pushed it out of her mouth. So I sorta smushed it Back it. Fun times. 
She's up and running all around again. Off to the chase...


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## Chrisdoc (Feb 4, 2014)

I am sure she understands that it's only for her own good.She's got such a lovely face, loved it from the first time you posted her pic , Just want to give her a big hug. Hope she improves and gets to know life without meds.


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## Orchid (Feb 4, 2014)

Chrisdoc said:


> I am sure she understands that it's only for her own good.She's got such a lovely face, loved it from the first time you posted her pic , Just want to give her a big hug. Hope she improves and gets to know life without meds.



Thanks! I know right! You just wanna hug her and smush her and love her! 
Her eyes look so so blue when she's on my bed. My comforter is blue so they light up all the more. 
I think she'll be one of those that looks like an angel with the attitude of a devil...lol
A real little girl 
Lol


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## Azerane (Feb 5, 2014)

Oh she's just so gorgeous  Glad to hear that she's improving as well. You always know an animal is getting better when it gets harder and harder to give them their medicine


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## lovelops (Feb 5, 2014)

Orchid said:


> Not for a little while. That store is in Wilmington I found it for one & two, I would like to try to have a shot at her being all healthy
> Only plastic toys are down & such. I can wash those.
> 
> Sigh. She really really hates taking that med. I'm supposed to give it for 14 days. She's never going to come near me at the end of this.



Sure she will! She will be so happy to see you don't have that ucky meds in your hands she will be all over you!

Vanessa


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## Orchid (Feb 27, 2014)

Oh so yeah its been awhile since I was here. 
Sloane finished her meds to just start having issues 2 days after. 
Odd poops and all. Going off her hay etc. 
She really was doing so good that last week. 

I ended up speaking with the owner of the vet practice we are dealing with. 
Dr. Gold I believe? 
Thought maybe meds. Her body had been through a lot. Growing, meds... All. 

Wants the 2 week check up. 
I'm getting more worried by the day to be honest. 
She hates to be around me now. She actually really does. 
If I sit on the floor she'll go behind me and bite my butt.
She'll follow my daughter though.
Run with her. Sit a minute with her or jump all over with her.
Lina slept in the dining room with her the other night and woke up to Sloane grooming her hair. 
I woke up to Sloane biting my lips.
She'll head bump me all the time. I not sure what she wants. 
I try to pet her and she'll run. 

She's taken to trying to chew cords.
The table legs of anything she can. 
She tries to climb into this big wicker like basket I have just to get into this white yarn rack that's tall I have. 
She almost fell out of that when I was trying to get her out the other day. 
I thought she hurt herself. 

I did get the right NIC from kmart and returned the others to target.
Kmart made it seem like they won't have them again. I was only able to get two boxes. Online my local store said none but they had the 2 in there when I went to look.

Sloane didn't seem to care for squash or zucchini. 
I am afraid to try those spring mix bags. 
So many different things in them. Oak leaf this and that's. Spinach. Etc. 
I'm wondering if Kale sits right with her. 
Red leaf she likes. 
Ever loves that pumpkin.

Back to eating at least a cube of that pumpkin a day to keep things moving. 

It wasn't like this that last week on meds. 

Ran out of Bene. 
Went to the tractor supply store. They were out of the Probios? For Equine. 
Fairly sure after checking these boards that's the one we can get from there. 
I asked them to order it for me. $7.49

I think something is just not right. 
Why we great that last med week.
Super poop. Super mood.
Now different poops and dumpy moods.
2 days right after meds. 

I know we have to go back. 
We will go back. 
We will NOT be seeing Dr. Urie. Or that Dr. Williams who couldn't be bothered to call me back about re infection and disinfection.

I think she'll need more meds. 
I don't want to be talked into things she doesn't need. 
I want to know what's wrong with her. 
They said SMZ TMP is a all way round antiB.
So what if it's not just Coccidia?
Money is ever a issue for me. 

I've wanted to order from Sierra Valley. That Orchard, Oat & Timothy. But at over 50 bucks it just has to wait. 
She isn't caring for the Sweet Meadow Timothy but I don't think we can Guage anything fairly truthfully.

She'll be 13 weeks old this coming Monday.
She's getting bigger. 
I bought bigger litter pans. 
She only pees in those pans. You know though sometime I notice on her steps in her cage pee prints?
Why would that be. Why are her feet pee wet up there. incontinence?
Is not that she's just peeing up there. 


So yeah. Muddling through for a few till we can go back to the vet.
She still runs, flops and throws herself everywhere 
When she feels like it at least. 

Random thought. 
I am grown woman not in menopause. 
My daughter has not yet begun her courses.
I get butted, bumped and butt bit.
She likes my daughter better. 
But I gave all the meds.


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## JBun (Feb 27, 2014)

If she was doing good before going off the meds, and immediately things started getting worse once they were stopped, all I can think is that she was either reinfected, the coccidia didn't completely clear up, or she now has something else like a bacteria that isn't sensitive to the smz tmp. You could have another fecal test done to try and figure out what is going on exactly. Best results are from samples collected from 3 days straight. I know that there are different strains of coccidia, and some can be resistant to certain meds, so this could be a possibility as well. If the test is still showing signs of it, you could try a different med. I believe Albon is used for it. I've read that ponzuril is the best for treating coccidiosis, but is expensive, and I believe can sometimes cause lack of appetite, so syringe feeding might be necessary, but I think treatment is only for 3-5 days.

I'm sorry your poor bun is struggling so much. Coccidiosis is nasty and difficult to treat, but luckily you caught it early enough that something actually could be done. Often it is caught too late to save the bun.

The attitude could just be due to having to medicate her. Some rabbits take it very bad. You don't want her thinking that biting you is ok though. The momma bun thing usually works well, by gently but firmly pressing their head down for a few seconds. She may also be trying to communicate something with you. A head bump could mean pet me, move, feed me, leave me alone, I don't feel well. It's one of the few ways they can really get our attention, short of biting, but it's not always easy to interpret what exactly is meant by it. I'll usually just start going through the list and see if I hit on the right thing. If she's just having issues with you because you've been the bad guy giving the meds, that will repair itself once she is feeling better and you no longer have to do it.

Usually with incontinence, they'll be wet inside around the bum and legs, and not just on the feet. If it's just the bottom of the feet, then she has to be stepping in it somewhere.


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## lovelops (Feb 27, 2014)

Lady my lop has bitten my butt more times than the President has given speeches.. don't take it personally. She still loves you. She just doesn't feel good right now. It's great she was grooming your daughter! That is wonderful. I agree with Jbun, I think it didn't treat what is bothering her 100% and it's come back.. and you should see a doctor that gives you what you want. If you are willing to drive I heard there was a good rabbit doctor in Silver Spring MD. Just let me know..

Good luck and let's get this girl well!

Vanessa


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## Orchid (Feb 27, 2014)

JBun said:


> If she was doing good before going off the meds, and immediately things started getting worse once they were stopped, all I can think is that she was either reinfected, the coccidia didn't completely clear up, or she now has something else like a bacteria that isn't sensitive to the smz tmp. You could have another fecal test done to try and figure out what is going on exactly. Best results are from samples collected from 3 days straight. I know that there are different strains of coccidia, and some can be resistant to certain meds, so this could be a possibility as well. If the test is still showing signs of it, you could try a different med. I believe Albon is used for it. I've read that ponzuril is the best for treating coccidiosis, but is expensive, and I believe can sometimes cause lack of appetite, so syringe feeding might be necessary, but I think treatment is only for 3-5 days.
> 
> I'm sorry your poor bun is struggling so much. Coccidiosis is nasty and difficult to treat, but luckily you caught it early enough that something actually could be done. Often it is caught too late to save the bun.
> 
> ...




Yeah I felt from go we had an issue but wasn't sure if it was body adjust going off those meds or what but every day....
I wouldn't be agreeable I think to doing the 14 days of the SMZ TMP again. 
That was hell on her and I and it didn't clear it. 
I don't feel this was re infection. This was a we didn't kill it. 
I guess there is no way to know how much the $$ med would cost. Different vets charge differently but a 3 to 5 day run would be better on her emotionally. 
I'll have to see what they would charge. 
Maybe see if they would even give it and what they would charge. 
Simon took Albon....I don't know if I trust it. 

I already expected to walk out of the this time with Critical Care. $16 bucks. 

I do the head thing with a firm no. 
I watch her close when she moves in behind me. I'm not sure what's it about. 
I can trick her with Bene. Put in a romaine leaf and she doesn't notice. 
I haven't had to force water, pellets or pumpkin. 
But her hay eating is not okay. 

She bumps you and runs so it's really hard to know her. 
You try to pet and she's like nope I'm out. 
If she's looking for more pumpkin or romaine well there's only so much I can give of that. 
Her water dish is always full. 
Always has hay.
Oh she does get po'd I clip her nails but daggers you know.

I can't say the inside of her legs or bum is wet. Maybe once I picked her up and was like whoa. Why are you so wet. But it seemed liked the flat of the back of her legs.

As always, grateful for the info and insight. 

I told my friend James If he really gets a bun he needs to get on this board. You guys are amazing.


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## Orchid (Feb 27, 2014)

lovelops said:


> Lady my lop has bitten my butt more times than the President has given speeches.. don't take it personally. She still loves you. She just doesn't feel good right now. It's great she was grooming your daughter! That is wonderful. I agree with Jbun, I think it didn't treat what is bothering her 100% and it's come back.. and you should see a doctor that gives you what you want. If you are willing to drive I heard there was a good rabbit doctor in Silver Spring MD. Just let me know..
> 
> Good luck and let's get this girl well!
> 
> Vanessa



Lol... That had me laughing. I read that to my kiddo and that made her laugh too.
More than the president 

Whew that town is 90 miles. One way. 
That's more than my dying car could probably handle. 

If I could make the ride and had all the money in the world you know? Ugh......


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## Orchid (Feb 28, 2014)

Okay so we spoke to the Vet just now. 
They do offer the med and what she could tell me was for a Netherland dwarf they had given 15 mil for 30 days for 30 dollars of the ponazuril. 
The recheck is 18.
Fecal 17
The critical care 17.

Now what if the fecal comes up negative is something she just said to me. 
What then huh.
Her eating hay has been off since meds dropped off. 
I just don't know. 

The appointment is set for Wed at 11 am with Dr. Gold.


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## JBun (Feb 28, 2014)

You obviously saw an improvement on the meds, and a downturn when coming off them. Fecals can come back showing inaccurate results sometimes, but I would think even then the vet would still want to treat, either for coccidiosis or bacteria, or even both to cover your bases, as it is apparent that there is an issue, no matter what the results are showing.

Wed. is awfully far away, especially for a bun that's eating has changed and may have a serious digestive parasite, because coccidiosis is serious and things can change pretty quickly. If it were me, I would want to be in there today or tomorrow, if at all possible.


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## lovelops (Feb 28, 2014)

Orchid said:


> Okay so we spoke to the Vet just now.
> They do offer the med and what she could tell me was for a Netherland dwarf they had given 15 mil for 30 days for 30 dollars of the ponazuril.
> The recheck is 18.
> Fecal 17
> ...



Is there any way they can get you guys in any quicker?
We've got that snow storm coming here in Maryland Monday.
I would not want to wait and have us get a ton of snow since
they have started calling for over 12 inches on Monday and
knowing Maryland Department of Highways, I doubt they could
keep half of the roads clean or cleared.. 

You guys as always are in my thoughts, but I would call back and mention
the upcoming storm coming in from the West and see if they can get you in any earlier... just a thought..

(and I'm glad you liked my analogy..about bites and speeches from the President.. even after I wrote that I flexed my toes near her, because I almost fell and knocked the entire middle of my small toe nail off and
she thought I was messing with her, grunted and BIT my toe!!! anic:

At least she didn't bite the one missing the toe nail, she got the one beside it and I have a cute imprint of her tooth now on my toe! :devil

Vanessa


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## Azerane (Mar 1, 2014)

Apologies that I'm a little behind here and I'm very sorry to hear that she's still not doing well. If the next medication doesn't work, perhaps it could be something environmental. Does she chew on anything besides her actual food? I noticed the grass mat in the photos, sometimes they can cause stomach upsets. I know it's not very helpful advice, but really want her to get better


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## Orchid (Mar 1, 2014)

Azerane said:


> Apologies that I'm a little behind here and I'm very sorry to hear that she's still not doing well. If the next medication doesn't work, perhaps it could be something environmental. Does she chew on anything besides her actual food? I noticed the grass mat in the photos, sometimes they can cause stomach upsets. I know it's not very helpful advice, but really want her to get better




Oh hey no worries and thanks so much for caring!
She doesn't pay them too much attention. Or any of her toys. I just started buying more things for her to destroy actually because she just started in on the chewing things. Like going after wires. Protected all of those but she has this habits of trying to go after table legs. The ones in my living room in particular. The one end table that is like a coffee table in the center of the carpet. It is like she resents its existence you know.
I worry if she was digging and chewing at the carpet right under where she lays so I put down nic panels and she stopped that.
ummm.
Can't think of anything else to be honest.
We have tried her on Kale but that was after all of this was going on and something strikes me as it doesn't sit right with her. 
I can't say why, but thats my gut on it you know so I haven't been giving it to her.
Staying with the red leaf and romaine and her pumpkin.
I wait on the pumpkin till evening though because I don't want her being like, oh I don't have to eat because well I have that coming.
The vet wanted me to back her down to like an 1/8 cup of pellets but when I did that she like stopped pooping so I was like sod that and I give her some and give her a bit of time once she runs out and hope she munches hay and wait and refill her dish after a time.
But again she was like stellar that 2nd week on the smz tmp.
I wasn't doing pumpkin. I wasn't feeling worried. blah blah. UGH.

The people below me smoke. 
I can't do anything about that one. Drives me batty....


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## Orchid (Mar 1, 2014)

lovelops said:


> Is there any way they can get you guys in any quicker?
> We've got that snow storm coming here in Maryland Monday.
> I would not want to wait and have us get a ton of snow since
> they have started calling for over 12 inches on Monday and
> ...



Sadly it is about the money too Vanessa.
I could take her Monday as I will have funds hit my bank account that day but as you mentioned we will all be kinda screwed that day. Mother nature and Jack Frost just aren't playing nice this year.
I do not want her seeing that Dr. Urie or Dr. Williams again...I want her with Dr. Gold. Wednesday at 11ish turned into our best option mostly because it is going to snow Monday. So short of that storm passing us by on Monday.......No. It has to be Wednesday.

We are keeping her going.
Romaine, pumpkin, keeping her running around and playing and Lina sits with her and literally shoves hay in her face and makes her chew some till she gets too PO'd and runs off. lol...kinda funny.
Lina slept out in the dining room with her again last night.
It was funny she was like OMG mom she won't stop it is 6am and she is going crazy. I just smiled, rolled over in my comfy bed and was like she's a morning sort of gal.
She is drinking. She will eat her pellets. She will eat the romaine but even seems to be losing some interest in that. Just not as excited when she hears that come out. Same with the pumpkin.
If we were to ignore this I believe we would be in serious trouble.
I think we will be okay as long as we stay on top of her till Wed morning.
Which we do.

I really want to get that Sierra hay!! Why do people have to charge so much for shipping ugh!
A friend of mine is going there soon. I was like okay get me some and carry that back on the plane. He laughed at me and was yeah like that would go over well. 

Thank you so so much for all your support!!


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## Orchid (Mar 1, 2014)

JBun said:


> You obviously saw an improvement on the meds, and a downturn when coming off them. Fecals can come back showing inaccurate results sometimes, but I would think even then the vet would still want to treat, either for coccidiosis or bacteria, or even both to cover your bases, as it is apparent that there is an issue, no matter what the results are showing.
> 
> Wed. is awfully far away, especially for a bun that's eating has changed and may have a serious digestive parasite, because coccidiosis is serious and things can change pretty quickly. If it were me, I would want to be in there today or tomorrow, if at all possible.



I wish we were able to.
Monday would have been the soonest but we have the storm coming. That set to Wed. Their office probably won't even be open on Monday because of it.


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## JBun (Mar 1, 2014)

Could you maybe pick up some more smz tmp today, just enough to tide you over until wed., since it did seem to help her? And it could maybe keep it from getting worse until you get into the vet.


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## Orchid (Mar 1, 2014)

JBun said:


> Could you maybe pick up some more smz tmp today, just enough to tide you over until wed., since it did seem to help her? And it could maybe keep it from getting worse until you get into the vet.



I have some left in the original bottle. It wasn't all the way empty and I didn't throw it out. 
You think it a good idea? Even though it's a short course? I know she's gained weight but I don't know how much. 
I would have to err in the side of caution and do the original amount I would think. 
I'm all for anything that improves her. 
I'm all out of Bene sadly.


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## JBun (Mar 1, 2014)

I don't know about doing a short course, but I do know how horribly awful coccidiosis can be, how often it proves to be fatal to rabbits, and how quickly a rabbit can go from being just fine to critically ill in just a matter of hours. If your bun does indeed still have it, then I would be very concerned about how her current appetite seems to be worsening and about the possibility of it being due to possible coccidia.

It would be best if you can get a hold of your vet to ask, and I certainly can't advise you to use a rx. But if you do try it, it's probably best to stick with the original dosing. And who knows, if you do see an improvement and want to continue with it, you could always just refill and continue the course when you see the vet. 

I just know that if it were my bun, I would be so worried about having to wait the 4 days, knowing how serious my buns condition might be.

ETA: Actually, I'm a bit surprised your vet didn't suggest continuing it until you could get back in to them, considering how serious coccidiosis is.


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## Orchid (Mar 1, 2014)

Sigh. I like my vet less every day.


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## JBun (Mar 1, 2014)

You're not alone. Finding good rabbit vets is extremely difficult. I had to take a bun to the vet recently, and was so upset by the end of it, that it took me days to get over it, and I've vowed never to go back there. I'm a bit envious of all the rabbit specialists they have in the UK, and really wish we had more here.


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## Orchid (Mar 1, 2014)

JBun said:


> You're not alone. Finding good rabbit vets is extremely difficult. I had to take a bun to the vet recently, and was so upset by the end of it, that it took me days to get over it, and I've vowed never to go back there. I'm a bit envious of all the rabbit specialists they have in the UK, and really wish we had more here.



Lovelops really likes her vet & I wish we could get over that way. I even thought what about the train but that just won't work. 
I was looking at Mondays forcast.
For me it's up to 5-8 inches. By the Chadwell vet it says - Snow likely. Cold. High 22F. Winds N at 10 to 20 mph. 6 to 10 inches of snow expected.

No one's going anywhere Monday.
They couldn't offer me Tuesday with Dr. Gold at a time I could get there.

Just walking into the vet in Middletown DE is like 60 bucks.
I'm starting to think though. Maybe I just should. 

Lina is running to Walgreens for the small syringe. The lines on ours have disappeared. 
I'm going to go ahead and give her the smz.

I'm also going to take poop from today and set it aside. Once we start the smz it may hide something in a fecal they do. 

My stomach feels in knots. 
Stupid storm.


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## Orchid (Mar 1, 2014)

Off to make her hate me just a little more.


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## JBun (Mar 1, 2014)

What I did after my bad vet experience, was send emails to the rabbit vets around here, mentioning my bad experience and that I was looking for a new vet, and then told them about my rabbits medical issues, and asked for some specifics on treatment and medications. I knew that they couldn't be too specific without an actual exam, but their answers were actually somewhat helpful in determining what vet I am going to try next. The questions were ones like what is the typical dose of metacam they would give to a rabbit for general pain, how they would initially treat something like a URI, basically questions that I already know how a good rabbit vet would treat and things they would do, so I could see if they were anywhere near what I felt was appropriate treatment. 

I would just think that any good rabbit vet, knowing my bun has had coccidiosis, and is now starting to loose appetite and feel sick again, would either want me to come in immediately or continue the treatment that was working until I could get back in. I don't know. That's just what would make sense to me. And it may be that this Dr. Gold is your best option, just not a perfect one.

Giving the meds is probably what I would do in your situation too. And saving a fecal is a good idea as well. I would assume that it probably would need to be refrigerated until you take it in.

She'll love you again... one day when she's all better


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## Orchid (Mar 1, 2014)

I like your email idea. 
I might think about that. See I feel a little trapped because the PA vet was just ridiculous. They want a kidney to treat you know. 
Middletown DE is reasonable but I live on disability so I always have to be very careful. 
Chadwell is on HRS list and well priced. Best priced for spay etc. 
I thought this was our best choice. 
My car is going. 
No one local will touch a bun. 
They all refer to Chadwell. 

The things you raise make me think more and more they just aren't on it and what am I saving because it sure won't be sloane's life.

We haven't seen this Dr. Gold yet.
I think maybe give him a shot?
If I'm still so unhappy I'll have to go to Middletown DE vet. 
Higher prices but she'll be treated better I can hope. No toll to pay going that way either. 

She's really ticked at me. 
I picked her up and she was wet everywhere and smelled like pee.
Could be I changed her pans.
She doesn't like new things or change. 
I gave her a sorta butt bath and dried her off. 
She smelled really bad but I do have super sensitive smell. 
I used the ammonia And cleaned all pans & dishes.
I put out new pellets, fresh water, fresh sweet Meadow Timothy mixed with alfalfa. 
Gave another cube of pumpkin. A bit of romaine. 
Gave a dose of smz tmp & gas drops.

She has eaten a bit of all. 
She's drank some. 
She's sitting on that pad we can heat up or freeze... Right now we warmed it up in the microwave. 
Lina said she's been sitting there a bit now. 

She runs when I come near.


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## Orchid (Mar 1, 2014)

Pictures


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## Orchid (Mar 1, 2014)

Those hays on the floor believe it or not.... The greener one was all like shake. OXBOW. 

The browner one with things still attached was the Sweet Meadow. 
We were checking the hay because we found a beatle.
We decided to use oxbow bag lol and got rid of their hay.


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## lovelops (Mar 2, 2014)

Hell after reading Jbuns post I feel like driving up there and helping you guys out with the car angle. 

Elkton isn't *that* far I mean I know you guys are up in the corner of the state near the DE/PA state line, but MD is a small state. Let me know if you guys need any help after seeing the vet this Weds... ok?

Vanessa


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## Orchid (Mar 2, 2014)

Couch smooshing


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## lovelops (Mar 3, 2014)

She is so cute!! I hope she is better today!

Vanessa


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## Azerane (Mar 3, 2014)

Haha, that first picture of couch smooshing is simply adorable!!


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## Orchid (Mar 3, 2014)

I made a decision to make an appointment at the Vet in Middletown DE. I'm cringing at the prices and I'm not sure....but really. 
We're going at 3:30.
Sod you snow. 

$67 for am exam
$31.10 for a fecal

The critical care & Bene bac are on the way from amazon but won't be here till tomorrow. 

What will they find? 
What will meds cost? 
Ugh!
Those roads better be cleared! 

Dr. Weir is this vets name. 
Atlantic Vet Center.

Cross your fingers for good things. 
Gotta go get ready. 
Maybe they'll say it's not coccidia and she's being picky?
I know. I'm dreaming.


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## Chrisdoc (Mar 3, 2014)

Love the pics, have my fingers and everything else crossed for her. She has an adorable little face.


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## lovelops (Mar 3, 2014)

Orchid said:


> I made a decision to make an appointment at the Vet in Middletown DE. I'm cringing at the prices and I'm not sure....but really.
> We're going at 3:30.
> Sod you snow.
> 
> ...



Cool! What happened? They didn't even plow the roads down here. I needed meds for my ribs and got a block from the house and said screw it and turned around. 

Keep me posted... send me a PM.. ok?

Keeping my fingers cross and bunnies crossed and chihuahua's crossed!

Vanessa


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## Azerane (Mar 3, 2014)

I hope everything went well at the vet, hoping for some good results.


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## lovelops (Mar 4, 2014)

Me and Lady sending you good thoughts. Here she is in her birthday hat! She just turned a year old this month! Just think if I did not rescue her she would have been put down! So from me and Lady to you and your family and Sloane, feel better!!!!

Vanessa


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## Orchid (Mar 4, 2014)

lovelops said:


> Me and Lady sending you good thoughts. Here she is in her birthday hat! She just turned a year old this month! Just think if I did not rescue her she would have been put down! So from me and Lady to you and your family and Sloane, feel better!!!!
> 
> Vanessa



Thank you and that is a great hat! We love that hat over here and a very happy birthday to Lady!!


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## Orchid (Mar 4, 2014)

First thank you to everyone who had such good and happy thoughts for us today and I am sorry I didn't get to updating sooner. I had a long phone call today that took up a great chunk of my evening.

So we did indeed head over to 
Atlantic Veterinary Center Middletown, Delaware
http://atlanticvetcenter.com/
We saw Dr. Weiher. The receptionist, Holly was really very nice to us indeed and I can't say a bad word about her at all.
I called Chadwell and had them fax over Sloane's records before we went. I thought that a good idea.
I grabbed the fridge poop and the some from her box and all her meds, records, pictures of the house, her food tags, toy examples etc and we went.

They were very good listeners and heard every thing I said. The one girl did laugh a little when the pineapple juice and papaya thing came up...
The vet came in and they checked her over a hundred times better then the vet (Dr. Urie) did at Chadwell. Ears, tummy, took her temp...everything.
Said the temp was on the high end of okay.
He explained his take on the pineapple and all is an outed thought on it breaking down and taking care of hair in the body and would not recommend nor sell those products for Sloane. (You go JBun)
He said she mostly looks very good however her stomach felt slightly doughy.
Yet he can feel things moving along, shaped poops doing their thing etc.
I'm concerned now.
She weighed in at 2.8 pounds my friends. Wow. Pushing 3 pounds and still a few weeks away from 4 months old. I wonder what weight she will land at full grown.
She was most unhappy being there. I have NEVER seen her sit in our laps EVER. She sat in Lina's lap for like...10 or more minutes on the floor...freaking out I think. She heard dogs in the waiting room.
She is currently laying down next to Lina's legs. Lina is laying/sleeping on the living room floor and well Sloane is right at her feet with her.
With one ear up.

SO he says he is going to check on a few things and comes back in with a bottle and takes out some meds and tries to give her some. That didn't go well let me tell you. I hold her for a second and we get it in her and then we talk. It is Reglan. Okay..um like how much is this? He doesn't know talk to them upfront.
I would of liked if you could have mentioned BEFORE You prepared and gave her the med that you WANTED to give her the med and HOW MUCH is the med. Just saying, from GO you all knew money was a major concern for. I love my rabbit but are you all gonna like me when I tell you I can't pay my bill?
So that oral Reglan was like over 30 bucks. Sweet eh?
Push comes to shove I just can't.
Turns out the fecal I think is so much more because they send it out to a lab to be read. The results will be back tomorrow morning.
So we don't even know if she still has the coccidia or how to treat.
His go to answer was another course of the smz tmp for 10 days.
Maybe Albon but I am not keen on the Albon....I have issues of my own with that one.
I asked them to call in the Reglan and if we have to the smz tmp to my local Walgreens. Man I think that Vet Practice Manager was PO'd something serious let me tell you. When I asked may I please keep the one syringe marked with the red line for dosage she said no. 
It would seem the Vet made her give it back to me. HA you mean lady. Take [email protected][email protected]!
Well, Walgreens tells me they waited super long to call that script in for the reglan and they do have to order it so we won't be able to Wednesday.
Bummer if she really has to have it.
That med they wanted to charge me over 30 dollars for? Yeah, $11.99 at Walgreens you overpriced snobs ripping off the care of my beloved rabbit so you can drive nicer cars and live in bigger houses. Sorry.

SOOOO I am home and stressed and worried. I spent my money for the week but thinking about the fact I honestly like this vet better even if I think his manager needs things removed from orifices of her body.
Worried about the prices of ever having to visit there but still the quality of care was better. Sorry Chadwell Animal, you ARE NOT UP TO PAR!
I wondered though, could I still take her there for her spay and feel okay with that and their level of care...I am still pondering and will continue to ponder for weeks to come.
(Must remember to cancel Wed appt there)

Thinking about doughy stomach...Thinking I need to understand MORE about this and started reading some. Came across this right:

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-7/gi.html

But this is the part that interested me the most:

"To sum it up, the cause of this condition is not the presence of hair in the stomach, but rather a GIT motility disorder that results in firm impacted stomach and cecal contents. *If we do not correct the underlying problem, then this condition is destined to reoccur*."

So I am asking myself WHAT IS MY UNDERLYING? Coccidia? HAIR? Something else? Could it be something in the Sweet Meadow Hay? We did find moss like things in the Timothy from time to time.


"How do rabbits act when they have impacted stomach or cecal contents? They will stop eating either suddenly or gradually over a period of time. The stools will get smaller and smaller, then stop altogether. Often, these patients will be bright and alert for a week or longer. *They may want to chew the paper on the bottom of the cage, the woodwork or the wall board (all sources of fiber they are craving), but refuse to eat their pellets.* Some rabbits have had periodic soft, pudding-like stools prior to complete anorexia. Eventually these patients can become seriously ill and die if the condition is not treated."

Now see that bit was interesting. Anyone keeping up remember I mentioned she has been trying to eat the legs of my end tables, all my tables and even some of my walls etc etc. I've been like what the hell!! She has been digging at the carpet at the bottom of her cage and I have been worried about her ingesting the fiber of the carpet so I placed nic panels at the bottom and cardboard below that. She has been digging at that now, but only in one corner.

NO pudding stools. NO diarrhea. She isn't off her pellets.

She is off her hay. She is starting to go off her romaine and even be like whatever about her pumpkin.
We put out a crap ton of alfalfa hay and the first cut timothy from sweet meadow tonight. Like an all you can eat buffet. She really hasn't been too into it. 
She ate a cube of pumpkin since being home. Drank a bit of water at last.
I did give her another dose of the last of that smz from the other vet on my own accord. Why miss a dose if I might have to give it to her tomorrow?
This vet thinks no Bene?


"Since this is an impaction problem, the goal is to rehydrate the rabbit both through the circulatory system and through the GIT. Fluids are administered either under the skin or in a vein along with high fiber and moisture feedings by syringe or tube. Syringe feedings can be made from ground rabbit pellets or powdered alfalfa mixed with blenderized green leafy vegetables and an oral electrolyte solution. In addition, medications to stimulate the GIT to start moving again and analgesics are used. It is rarely necessary to use antibiotics, and in fact these might cause further disturbance to an already compromised GIT. Some people like to use laxatives, and enzymes. I too, have used these products in the past, but have found that they really aren't necessary. I have equal success in treating this condition with or without enzymes. It is important to remember that enzymes of any kind (pineapple, papaya or pancreatic) do not dissolve hair. But the real keys are hydration of the stomach/cecal contents and getting the GIT moving again."

We didn't do fluids there. I wouldn't have been able to afford it but you know he didn't bring it up either.
High fiber...isn't that my pumpkin at the moment with the moisture? That my best home choice??
He mentioned push more veggies and gave me a list. Also sorry to say my local grocery store is SUCKING for good looking veggies. My carrot tops were rotten last I was there.
How much should I be pushing, giving? Think ice cube tray wise.
Enzymes? as in Bene Bac? or Just talking pineapple and such. Gotcha already discovered stay away there.


"I find that over 50% of the rabbits presented with this condition will take care of it themselves when they are given a big pile of leafy greens to eat. Most of the cases of stomach impaction we see have been on a primary pellet diet (NOT SLOANE)and have had little or no access to greens or hay (NOT SLOANE). They are craving fiber and fluids and the leafy greens can be just the ticket. In addition we give all these patients good quality grass hay(SLOANE HAS TONS OF HAY). We completely remove pellets from the diet (rabbits usually won't eat pellets when they are ill anyway)- (SLOANE IS EATING HER PELLETS AND IF WE TAKE THEM AWAY SHE STOPS POOPING). Whatever treatment is used, one can expect stools to be produced within three days. It is rarely necessary to perform surgery for this condition."


So there. That is all yeah?
She was dosed at 5pm with Reglan but will have to wait till Wednesday for more. 
I won't know till the morning what the fecal results are and if she needs more medications.
If that result comes back negative and there is nothing wrong on that part then I need someone to explain to WHAT is my underlying cause because we give veggies, pellets and tons of hay and fresh water, and pumpkin only when she starts to go this way.
It is the pumpkin that keeps her moving. I think she be in total GI failure without it honestly.

We need to get more gas drops.
I need more hay.
Romaine and hunt for a store with better veggies.

She loves my daughter.
She lays down by her feet or climbs on her back when she sleeps. It is kinda funny you know. Its like she won't let you know she loves you that much unless you are sleeping. Maybe it is because she is that still.

Lina is worried about how she breathes real heavy sometimes. To the point her ears will shake. She feels the vet didn't really answer her.

I really think that is everything guys. Sorry the update is SO crazy long and took forever to get up.
Thanks for being there for us, listening and being a part of our world.
Much love to everyone and I hope all your buns are doing well and living in the lap of veggie heavens.

ray:


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## Orchid (Mar 4, 2014)

Stayed up till 3am trying to get her eating and moving and all. She did some running and trampling Lina. Now it's time to call it a night. 
We're all too tired.


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## Chrisdoc (Mar 4, 2014)

You must be out of your mind with worry about your little girl. I can't give you any advice about what the vet is recommending as mine thankfully have had very few gut problems. What I can say is mine eat a large bowl of greens every day, usually watercress, rocket or radiccio mixed with herbs such as dill, basil, cilantro, parsley. I also give them endive and they do love cabbage, cauli leaves and broccoli which give some buns gas but mine seem gas free. It does seem to be a gut prooblem, I am sure Jenny will be on here soon. I woory also about vets costs should they have health issues, it is just so expensive. Lots of nose bonks and kisses from my boys for Sloane. This is the bowl I use for their veggies, two of them share it.


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## Orchid (Mar 4, 2014)

The sent out to lab fecal. ... Didn't get sent out till after 11am today. No results till tomorrow. 

I'm feeling SO well taken care of. Not.

We have some reglan now. 
She was just given a dose. 
She's stopped eating her pellets.
Working on some veggies.
Pushing hay. 
Bene Bac was given and a dose of .8 smz this morning. 

I have a meeting I have to get to at 7 PM. Ugh.

Pharmacys couldn't give me a darn feeding syringe.


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## Orchid (Mar 5, 2014)

If it weren't for amazing and truly kind people the world would be ****. Sorry but seriously. 

Thank you.


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## Orchid (Mar 6, 2014)

Sloane is back on smz tmp .8 till ? 7 days past when she's begins to act normal.
She's on a dose of .5 of Reglan. It was Upped from .25
We've tried a bevy of yums and she's only digging the Cilantro. 
Turning her nose at pumpkin, rosemary, baby romaine, banana etc. 
Got new Oat and orchard hays. Nodda.
We started 50 ml of subQ fluids with B vitamins this evening. 
Also doing the 1 gram of Bene bac. 
Forced a bunch of Critical Care Down her. 

I fell asleep around 5pm maybe.
Woke up around 9?
My daughter said she's started eating her pellets and had drank from her water bowl. 
She's eating the greens we put out as we put them out. 
Not too into the hay. 
She's running.
She's jumping.
She's spinning in the air in her litter pan. 
She binkyed.
She flopped.

She's feeling better. 

All they can say is the fecal came back 100% Negative For any coccidia or other parasite. 
He said maybe iinfectious something or hairball.

That's where we are at. 
That's what we are running with. 

Last night I'm crying thinking she's going to die and is Simon all over again and today I'm like it's going to be alright. 
Nasty hump but it's gonna be okay. 
Gotta say while I HATE giving SubQ....I think this made all the difference and if we hadn't done it we would be in a worse place. 

My kiddo had been a major driving force in making her well. Though she's been scared. I'm super proud of her. 

I'm really really thankful for lovelops friendship and support, advice and just being there to talk to.
Thank you Vanessa. 

I can only hope we keep moving forward. 
I don't know what she had or has. 
I just want it gone and want her okay.


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## Orchid (Mar 6, 2014)

We couldn't get the fluids I this morning. 
She just freaks the second I open it up to let them flow. 
We have one needle left. 
I'm so stressed.


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## Orchid (Mar 6, 2014)

I came up with a bunny straight jacket. We got the SubQ in. I'll try to post pics on a stuffed animal how we managed it. 
Maybe over in the health forum eh?


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## JBun (Mar 6, 2014)

Oh, I'm so sorry that Sloane is still feeling so unwell  But glad the fluids seemed to help her. Caring for a sick bun is never easy, especially when they are trying to fight your efforts. I wish we could communicate with them that we are just trying to help them get better.

I'm surprised the fecal test came back clear, but I guess that is good too. I'm assuming(and hoping) they also checked for harmful bacteria as well, as these can also be common causes for digestive trouble? I just wish they could sort out what is going on with her. Hopefully the antibiotics start helping again, like they did last time.

Hang in there. It's hard and stressful, but try and just take it a moment at a time. Sloane is hanging in there, and you have seen some improvement, which is a good thing. 

I can't recall, but are you giving metacam, or have you tried it to see if it helps? If she isn't eating due to pain, pain relief would be a really good thing if you aren't giving it already?


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## Orchid (Mar 6, 2014)

JBun said:


> Oh, I'm so sorry that Sloane is still feeling so unwell  But glad the fluids seemed to help her. Caring for a sick bun is never easy, especially when they are trying to fight your efforts. I wish we could communicate with them that we are just trying to help them get better.
> 
> I'm surprised the fecal test came back clear, but I guess that is good too. I'm and hoping) they also checked for harmful bacteria as well, as these can also be common causes for digestive trouble? I just wish they could sort out what is going on with her. Hopefully the antibiotics start helping again, like they did last time.
> 
> ...



The fecal went to a lab. 
They said there was nothing in it. 

As to pain meds no. We aren't on them right now. 
Bene which I'm doing not because the vet said to. 
The smz .80 two times a day to - she starts acting herself then continue for 7 days more. 
.50 of Reglan till? 

Forced Critical Care up to 4 Table spoon if she isn't eating. (Which I've stopped for now)
50 milliliters Of B vitamins subq. Once a day. Maybe 2 if she seems like really needs it. 
She really improves on those. 

I'm considering doing another round of it later but the stress of it alone on her. Well. Sigh. 

She's begun eating her pellets again. 
Still ignoring her hay. 

I need new needles from walgreens. I asked the vet to call them in but they'll only call 20 Guage in and I really think smaller would be better for her. The feel of the fluids freaks her out. Not the needle.


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## Orchid (Mar 6, 2014)

Everything at Walgreens is $11.99 for a bun.

30 ml of Reglan
30 ml Smz Tmp
10 - 20 Guage needles.....


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## Orchid (Mar 9, 2014)

Took forever to get from the phone to the computer and change the files.
Here we go. Some I am sure are duplicates.


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## Orchid (Mar 9, 2014)

next!


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## Orchid (Mar 9, 2014)

huzzah!


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## Orchid (Mar 9, 2014)

Carrot!


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## Orchid (Mar 9, 2014)

Binky!


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## Orchid (Mar 9, 2014)

Last picture hit. Happy Sunday.


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## Orchid (Mar 9, 2014)

Let see...lets see...an update on Sloane.

We tried buying carrot juice yesterday.
Frozen pedialyte pops.
Managed to score decent carrot top greens.
Some more cilantro.
A banana.


We tried applesauce. Tried applesauce in the water. Carrot juice, carrot juice in the water. Plain Water, the Pedialyte solution (grape) before it froze.
Nope. She didn't want to drink ANY of it. Love you too Sloane.
She didn't want any banana the other day but ate some yesterday.

Today we gave her that bowl you see in the pictures.
She didn't finish it.
3 slices of banana. She ate 2.
Ignored the carrot.
Ate some of the baby romaine leaves, the cilantro...almost all of the cilantro and ate some of the carrot tops.
Put out 3 pieces of frozen pumpkin because she seems to prefer the frozen over not frozen.
She hasn't eaten that either.

Lina feels very strongly her water bowl was much lower this morning.
We have not seen her drink today.

I gave her a break yesterday from the SubQ. Just couldn't put her or myself through that stress.
I syringed her some of that pedialyte pop. I though she was digging it till a bunch of it ended up on my shirt when she got down.
One of those pops is her total fluid intake for the day, or so says the vet. This second one. Hmmm.

HEY Maryland peoples. There is a spay neuter clinic does buns - 55 a pop. just mentioning that. It was passed onto me. I think that's a pretty stellar price. The lady on the phone doesn't know poop though.

There is another vet 11 minutes away from me. 
They say they see buns, they are not on "THE LIST".
A visit is 42 well, 48 sick.

Here - http://www.northeastanimalhosp.com/

I just keep thinking about Atlantic right...he doesn't know what Ponz is used for or anything about that and is supposed to be a rabbit savy guy?
hmmmm. Better than Chadwell don't get me wrong but it is like we are on the eternal quest for a decent rabbit vet.

I also am becoming more of the line of thinking these meds make her feel like poop.
Maybe the Reglan....
I dropped that dose back down to the .25
I am considering not giving it to her at all. 
If she perks back up and is eating again in a little while after this dumpy mode...I just might not.

I'm also doubting everything right now.
Like Sweet Meadows Hay. The first cut Timothy and the random bunches of moss we would find in there.
I will not give it to her now.
I am leaving it on the shelf undecided if I want to throw out the rest of the bag or what.
What should I do with that Alfalfa..I have been still giving her that one from them....there never was moss in it.

She isn't showing TOO much happy joy joy over the oat and orchard I grabbed off the shelf from oxbow locally. AT least she will nibble.
She broke out of her pen two nights ago and I awoke to her running under my bed.
She has done some running and flopping.

I think she is doing better but I am still concerned.
I don't feel "safe" by any means.

Pondering this other 3rd vet. 

I sent out my res to a few ads. Wouldn't it be great to get a job and be able to afford all this?

My great thanks to all the support from RO and to Vanessa who without listening to my constant whining and worrying, well I don't know how well I would hold up.
We are only doing so well right now because of you.
Like really, you are Sloane's Bunny Godmum. Thank you! (hugs)


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## Orchid (Mar 9, 2014)

Oh yeah she is DEFINITELY a night terror. If she could be free to run and play and do as she please when NO ONE was looking...yeah she would be like, catwomans side kick in crime or something...I am telling you.


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## Chrisdoc (Mar 9, 2014)

What great pics, she is just adorable. I love that little cutie face and her colouring is just lovely. Hope she is improving, looks like she is enjoying her greens and her banana and she looks to be eating hay, that must be good. Keep getting stronger little baby, we are all rooting for you to be well


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## lovelops (Mar 9, 2014)

OK so how did she do last night? 

Vanessa


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## JBun (Mar 21, 2014)

Just wondering how Sloane is doing and hoping everything is alright.


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## lovelops (Mar 21, 2014)

JBun said:


> Just wondering how Sloane is doing and hoping everything is alright.



Yes, you and me both. Quite frankly I'm worried.. 

I hope she posts something soon... Please let us know something..

Vanessa


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## Orchid (Apr 10, 2014)

Ah I'm sorry all. 

Life got quite weird and wonky. 
I do most everything from my phone to start. 
The tmobile update sent it batty and I wasn't able to use it right. 

I was caught up with either Lina being sick, I was sick & of course - Sloane. 

I'm sorry I didn't update you all. Thank you again for your continued care and support. 

Sloane came off her meds and has been better med and health wise. 

Behavior wise - she's demonic.
Currently banned from the living room. Won't stop peeing on the couch, blankets or people. 
Chewing on the wooden furniture etc. 
She has the dining room though. 

She was out this morning running and getting her Jane fonda in. 
She seems to prefer her oxbow timothy. Go figure. 
That's her hay of choice. I give up trying to get fancy. 
I give her a couple of mint leaves here and there. She likes those. 
She's on the mana pro pellets pretty much now. 
Eats her romaine like a champ.
Not really doing pumpkin anymore. Unless it's like a treat at this point. 
The vegetables at my local Acme are disgusting. 
Every time we go we have to ask them for something in the back. Simply NOTHING not wilted in the front.
Sad. 

She has a spay scheduled in a couple of weeks.
I'd like to see her in a vets office maybe next week for a check up. 
A new one super local. 
3rd ones the charm?


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## JBun (Apr 10, 2014)

Phew! I'm so relieved everything is alright. Well, aside from everyone having been sick  I was a little worried for you all. I'm so glad to hear everyone is ok. I'm glad Sloane is finally all better. I'm sure that's a relief to you. It was quite the battle, but you did it and she pulled through... although seeming to be a bit of a troublemaker now  Sounds like you are to the hormonal teenager stage. Fun times  The spay should help a bit.

Thank you for the wonderful update


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## Orchid (Jul 3, 2014)

Xxxx


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## Azerane (Jul 4, 2014)

Yay, bunny pictures! She's such a unique looking rabbit, a vienna marked black otter? It's such an unusual combination of markings, absolutely beautiful. Love the bunny flops


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## Aubrisita (Jul 4, 2014)

DBF are the best! Adorable pictures, I love the little white tummy.


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## JBun (Jul 4, 2014)

I'm so glad she is doing well. She certainly looks quite happy all flopped out


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## Orchid (Aug 10, 2015)

An update at long last. I had her spayed a few months ago. It's made her so stresseD to be handled now. We had some peeing problems but larger pans solved the problem. 
She's become a very solitary girl. Won't really leave her cage even though it's not so much a cage just a shelf now. She had free roam till about a week ago. 

I tried bringing a new bun around for her. It's gone badly. I might try a different one. I feel like she needs a friend.

She's healthy. She's eating. Loves bok choy.


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## Orchid (Aug 15, 2015)

Our clan has grown to include:

Peaches the hamster - teddy bear & still growing. 
Edgar...the destroyer 3 months old(Flemish mix maybe?)
Bailey- 2 months old (lionhead mix?)


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## Orchid (Aug 15, 2015)

Bailey's digs


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## Orchid (Aug 15, 2015)

Bailey boy & me


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## lovelops (Aug 16, 2015)

Orchid said:


> Bailey boy & me



It's so good to see you all around. Tried to call... Lady as you know passed in March... so it's good to see all your clan is still around and hanging in there!
Keep us posted.


Vanessa


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## lovelops (Aug 16, 2015)

Orchid said:


> Bailey boy & me



You want another Bailey? My better half rescued a lion head just like him 
yesterday from the Amish market. No water, food out in the sun. I ran him to the vets, got him fluid and put him on Coccidia meds just in case. He is Bailey's twin.

Vanessa


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## Orchid (Aug 17, 2015)

Sloane seems interested in both boys but trying to let them meet didn't go well. She went on the attack. For now, till the boys are fixed I think it's best to keep them apart. 
I've let the boys out together. Edgar tried to hump Bailey but Bailey wasn't having it. Now they seem like pals. They have separate cages & I think I'll keep it that way for now. Edgar is a runner so his cage is long with one shelf. Bailey is a shelf jumper so his is short with 3 levels. 
Sloane hangs out mostly in my daughters room now. She visits the rest of the house here & there & will shake the bedroom door if you're late with a meal. 

3 bunnies full is about our max. My landlord knew about one. Who knows what he'd say about 3.... but there it is. Edgar has his neuter appointment next month on the 13th. Hopefully they will have dropped enough they'll go ahead. 

Bailey is rather timid but cool. He'll sit there and drink his meds from the syringe without us having to hold him or anything. He's eating on his own. He could eat hay better but baby steps.


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