# To Neuter or To Not Neuter??



## Jennyrobson (Feb 6, 2021)

Hi, 
In a few weeks I will be collecting a Mini Lop and I am hoping that when the genders are revealed, that I will be getting a male. If I get a male, will he need to be neutered? He will be an only rabbit. If the gender is female I will be getting her spayed but I really am hoping for a male. Any advice is welcome, thanks.


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## Madelyn L. (Feb 6, 2021)

I would get him neutered. If you don’t your rabbit will she signs of aggression and dominance. He will be spray pee and poop everywhere as a way of owning their territory. His litterbox techniques will never be perfected. He also has a chance of testeronial (I think that’s what it’s called) cancer. I would definitely get him neutered because it increases their lifespan as well.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 6, 2021)

How much does a neuter cost, usually? I am based in the UK.


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## Madelyn L. (Feb 6, 2021)

In the us it costs 195 for me, which is the same as 166 euros.


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## KingBunny (Feb 6, 2021)

I never neuter mine. They never show signs of agression. Suppose it depends on the individual.


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## KingBunny (Feb 6, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> How much does a neuter cost, usually? I am based in the UK.


Most places charge £80


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 6, 2021)

KingBunny said:


> I never neuter mine. They never show signs of agression. Suppose it depends on the individual.


Would it be a requirement? I’m really hoping I get a boy and I don’t think I want to neuter to be honest. Do they have a tendency to spray? I have had rabbits as a child and I don’t ever recall them spraying or being aggressive. I’ve had about 3 male rabbits.


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## KingBunny (Feb 6, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> Would it be a requirement? I’m really hoping I get a boy and I don’t think I want to neuter to be honest. Do they have a tendency to spray? I have had rabbits as a child and I don’t ever recall them spraying or being aggressive. I’ve had about 3 male rabbits.


Why don't you try him for 6 months or so and then decide. Its an expensive thing to have done.
I will never be neutering my ones.
It's up to you really.
It's not a requirement at all


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 6, 2021)

KingBunny said:


> Why don't you try him for 6 months or so and then decide. Its an expensive thing to have done.
> I will never be neutering my ones.
> It's up to you really.
> It's not a requirement at all


Have you ever had an unspayed female get cancer? I’ve been told gender is hard to be sure of and I’ll be collecting the rabbit at 8 weeks and I don’t want to think it’s a male but then be told it’s a female and have to worry about it getting cancer.


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## KingBunny (Feb 6, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> Have you ever had an unspayed female get cancer? I’ve been told gender is hard to be sure of and I’ll be collecting the rabbit at 8 weeks and I don’t want to think it’s a male but then be told it’s a female and have to worry about it getting cancer.


I've never had one get cancer. 
Uterine tumours are most common but I don't think there's a huge risk to be honest. 
Others would probably know more. 
I don't want to dish out false information.


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## Blue eyes (Feb 6, 2021)

If this is your first rabbit, I'd strongly suggest you reconsider getting such a young rabbit. It is best to find a rabbit that is already past hormones (and possibly already fixed) from a rabbit rescue. The following page on my website explains in more detail the many reasons it is better to go with "not a baby". There are numerous disadvantages with getting a baby and many advantages with getting a rabbit from a rabbit rescue. 








Choosing Your First Bunny


[ Tablet users, try the "web" version by clicking on "web" at the bottom of this page for a better, user-friendly format . ]



rabbitsindoors.weebly.com





That said, not all male rabbits need to be neutered-- if they will remain single, indoor rabbits. But it will depend on the individual. That hormonal behavior (aggression, spraying urine, grumpiness, poor litter box habits, very smelly urine) is more pronounced in some intact rabbits. But with some intact male rabbits, the changes are barely noticeable.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 7, 2021)

Blue eyes said:


> If this is your first rabbit, I'd strongly suggest you reconsider getting such a young rabbit. It is best to find a rabbit that is already past hormones (and possibly already fixed) from a rabbit rescue. The following page on my website explains in more detail the many reasons it is better to go with "not a baby". There are numerous disadvantages with getting a baby and many advantages with getting a rabbit from a rabbit rescue.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I had rabbits in the past as a child and raised them up from babies, but they were outdoor ones and passed away. I’ve heard that mini lops are better as indoor rabbits and I want an indoor rabbit now, I wouldn’t have two as I would prefer to just bond with one. The lady I am getting them from said she will be 100% sure of the genders by the time they’re 6 weeks and that I don’t need to pick one until then. Is this true? Can she really be 100% positive? I wouldn’t want to bring home a “boy” but then find out she’s a girl and have to stress over the chances of her getting cancer... boy or girl, the rabbit will be an only rabbit but I would definitely prefer a boy because I had boys when I was younger and absolutely loved them.


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## KingBunny (Feb 7, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> I had rabbits in the past as a child and raised them up from babies, but they were outdoor ones and passed away. I’ve heard that mini lops are better as indoor rabbits and I want an indoor rabbit now, I wouldn’t have two as I would prefer to just bond with one. The lady I am getting them from said she will be 100% sure of the genders by the time they’re 6 weeks and that I don’t need to pick one until then. Is this true? Can she really be 100% positive? I wouldn’t want to bring home a “boy” but then find out she’s a girl and have to stress over the chances of her getting cancer... boy or girl, the rabbit will be an only rabbit but I would definitely prefer a boy because I had boys when I was younger and absolutely loved them.


Yes, by 6 weeks you can be pretty much sure of the sexes. 
Also, they very rarely get cancer. You don't see dead wild rabbits lying around the place which have died from cancer. 
You should be fine. Mini lops are good Indoors.


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## Diane R (Feb 7, 2021)

Please don't encourage breeding. So much easier, cheaper, less stressful and the ethical thing to do to adopt a bonded pair from a rescue centre. Although you had rabbits before, you might find this page and the rest of the site helpful. Lots of up-to-date advice on diet, health, housing, etc. New to Rabbits


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 7, 2021)

Diane R said:


> Please don't encourage breeding. So much easier, cheaper, less stressful and the ethical thing to do to adopt a bonded pair from a rescue centre. Although you had rabbits before, you might find this page and the rest of the site helpful. Lots of up-to-date advice on diet, health, housing, etc. New to Rabbits


The mother rabbit was taken in pregnant. She had been dumped. I know this because the person with the rabbits is my friend. She had contacted a rescue, explained the situation and had taken her to the vet. Vet said she was fine but then said she was pregnant, my friend took her in regardless. She has since had 5 babies and is doing great. I’ve had all of my rabbits from babies from genuine, reputable people. My friend didn’t breed this rabbit, someone else did, and then dumped her, or didn’t care to neuter her and left her with an intact male and dumped her upon realisation that she was pregnant. When she is ready and has recovered fully from being a mother, she will be neutered. Thanks for the information though


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 7, 2021)

KingBunny said:


> Yes, by 6 weeks you can be pretty much sure of the sexes.
> Also, they very rarely get cancer. You don't see dead wild rabbits lying around the place which have died from cancer.
> You should be fine. Mini lops are good Indoors.


I’m going to be contacting some vets to ask about the cost of neutering/spaying. I won’t neuter a male unless he becomes aggressive or sprays a lot. I’m such a worrier so if the bunny is a girl I’ll definitely get her spayed. How can you be 100% sure at 6 weeks? Are there any massive differences in gender?


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## Happy Hollands (Feb 7, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> How can you be 100% sure at 6 weeks?


No breeder should ever "guarantee" gender, as up until 8 weeks of age, the babies are very young (and small) and mistakes can be easily made. Personally, I am extremely experienced determining gender, and have only made 1 _known_ mistake over the years. However, I never guarantee gender unless the rabbit is over 3 months old or I have some sort of proof / telltale sign. She is using very confident language saying she will 100% guarantee gender. It does not sound like your friend is experienced sexing rabbits, so I wouldn't exactly trust her judgment. 6 weeks is still very young for anyone unexperienced to be deciphering genders. I can tell genders 90% effectively at 4 days old. For me, it bumps up to 99% effectiveness at 4 weeks. But please don't forget that I have been breeding for years. Both "pop out" like a male, The only real difference is shape and length (which totally looks the same unless experienced).


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 7, 2021)

Happy Hollands said:


> No breeder should ever "guarantee" gender, as up until 8 weeks of age, the babies are very young (and small) and mistakes can be easily made. Personally, I am extremely experienced determining gender, and have only made 1 _known_ mistake over the years. However, I never guarantee gender unless the rabbit is over 3 months old or I have some sort of proof / telltale sign. She is using very confident language saying she will 100% guarantee gender. It does not sound like your friend is experienced sexing rabbits, so I wouldn't exactly trust her judgment. 6 weeks is still very young for anyone unexperienced to be deciphering genders. I can tell genders 90% effectively at 4 days old. For me, it bumps up to 99% effectiveness at 4 weeks. But please don't forget that I have been breeding for years. Both "pop out" like a male, The only real difference is shape and length (which totally looks the same unless experienced).


Though I would prefer a male, it isn’t an issue as I will be checking myself when I view the rabbit. I did some research and saw that the male’s genitals has more of a tube like appearance with a hole at the top and the female has more of a slit. Is that correct? Hopefully that is accurate. Even if the rabbit is a girl, she will get spayed and will be loved just as much as if she were a boy.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 7, 2021)

Also, what does everyone feed their rabbits? As said above, I’m getting a mini lop and would love to know the best hay, pellets and greens to feed them. Thanks.


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## Madelyn L. (Feb 7, 2021)

I buy my hay from small pet select and I buy my bun baby spring mix. I recommend oxbow pellets


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## KingBunny (Feb 7, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> Also, what does everyone feed their rabbits? As said above, I’m getting a mini lop and would love to know the best hay, pellets and greens to feed them. Thanks.


Are you from UK?
If so. Petsathome stock some good pellets and hay which is called Timothy hay. 
A handful of lettuce or greens a day.


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## Mariam+Theo (Feb 7, 2021)

If you get a male, I still highly suggest neutering him. I didn't get Theo neutered at first, but he kept peeing outside of the litter box and it smelled awful. He was also humping everything and so aggressive towards me. Eventually, I called a vet and they said it would only be $50 instead of $300 (that is what my friend paid). After the neuter, he is the best rabbit I could hope for. He is so sweet, not aggressive, super well litter trained, and his litter box doesn't smell that bad anymore.

Diet:
Hay-I try to buy Timothy, Meadow, or Orchard hay bales from local farmers because the hay is super high quality (since it is for horses). It is also WAY cheaper than buying hay from pet stores for rabbits.
Pellets-I used to buy small pet select pellets, but I'm swapping Theo over to Sherwood because it is a better healthier brand.
Veggies-I buy a one 1lb box of spring mix and a bunch of cilantro, turnip greens, or mustard greens per week.


Since you are getting a baby rabbit, you will need to feed it Alfalfa-based pellets at the beginning. Once the rabbit hits 4 months, you will want to slowly swap over to a Timothy Pellet. I would feed a mini lop 1/4 cup of pellets per day, babies should not get unlimited pellets. I do not suggest feeding Alfalfa Hay, because once you have to swap over to Timothy Hay they won't eat the Timothy. Do not feed any fruits or veggies before the rabbit is 5 months. When it turns 5 months, add veggies super slowly so the rabbit doesn't get water poop.








Feeding


[ Tablet users, try the "web" version by clicking on "web" at the bottom of this page for a better, user-friendly format . ]



rabbitsindoors.weebly.com





Good Luck! Don't forget to send pictures of the new bunny!


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 7, 2021)

Madelyn L. said:


> I buy my hay from small pet select and I buy my bun baby spring mix. I recommend oxbow pellets


Thanks so much, I’ll look into them at our local pets at home


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 7, 2021)

Mariam+Theo said:


> If you get a male, I still highly suggest neutering him. I didn't get Theo neutered at first, but he kept peeing outside of the litter box and it smelled awful. He was also humping everything and so aggressive towards me. Eventually, I called a vet and they said it would only be $50 instead of $300 (that is what my friend paid). After the neuter, he is the best rabbit I could hope for. He is so sweet, not aggressive, super well litter trained, and his litter box doesn't smell that bad anymore.
> 
> Diet:
> Hay-I try to buy Timothy, Meadow, or Orchard hay bales from local farmers because the hay is super high quality (since it is for horses). It is also WAY cheaper than buying hay from pet stores for rabbits.
> ...


This is one of them right now, I haven’t actually picked one as of yet as I’m waiting until I view them to base it off their personalities. 
I will be contacting the vet tomorrow to ask when they can be vaccinated, how much that’ll cost, when they can be spayed/neutered and the cost of that too as well as the food they recommend. I just want to do everything right. I’ve decided I’ll definitely spay/neuter no matter what now. How much is $50 in UK £? I think it costs more to spay a doe than it does to neuter a buck.
Also, do you have any tips on aftercare at all? I’m new to the neutering and spaying side of things and I’ve never had a mini lop before. Thanks!


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## Madelyn L. (Feb 7, 2021)

It is 42 euros. That bunny is so cute! I’m glad you will give him a good home


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 7, 2021)

42 euros for me should be around £30... not too bad at all. I will pay any amount to ensure their health obviously but as the world of neutering and spaying rabbits is new to me I just wanted an idea of what it will cost. I’ve seen neutering being quoted at around £80 which is around 109 dollars, and I know that spaying a doe is more expensive than neutering a male, so I will just see what the vet says in the morning. I will care for that bunny so well, I absolutely love bunnies, probably more than I love dogs. I just want what is best for them in all aspects. Thank you for the compliment about the bunny 
*Does anyone have any tips for aftercare for both doe and buck as I don’t know the gender yet


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## Madelyn L. (Feb 7, 2021)

Seeing as my bun got neutered two days ago, I can help you with the post spay/neuter stuff.
-keep everything pretty much the same. Too much change will be stressful
-make sure he/she eats veggies or hay soon (3-4) hours after surgery. This helps prevent a gut blockage.
- make sure they are warm. They will be kind of cold after the anesthesia. A blanket would do good
- prevent them from biting or scratching at the site. You don’t want it to become infected.
- give them their pain meds (if your vet gave them any) as prescribed 
- make sure the don’t get too active. It could irritate the site.
- they are probably going to sleep a lot to wear off the anesthesia. 
And here are just some things I worried about you may be worried about too:
- they shouldn’t be scared if you after the spay/neuter.
- they should start eating their food better a couple hours after the surgery.
- keep their home clean so the site doesn’t get infected
Hope everything goes well!


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## Mariam+Theo (Feb 8, 2021)

That's great that you have decided to spay\neuter! It is the best for the rabbit! Spaying is typically more money then neutering because of pain meds.
Follow @Madelyn L. advice with post care.
The only thing I would change is:


Madelyn L. said:


> -make sure he/she eats veggies or hay soon (3-4) hours after surgery. This helps prevent a gut blockage


Hay, just hay. Some veggies are fine, but really push the hay!


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## Diane R (Feb 8, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> Also, what does everyone feed their rabbits? As said above, I’m getting a mini lop and would love to know the best hay, pellets and greens to feed them. Thanks.


You're in the UK, right? There are several good online places for hay e.g. timothyhay.co.uk and hay and straw Hay and Straw Get at least 2-3 varieties of grass hay. This is what they should be eating for several hours a day. Put a handful of fresh hay out several times a day. They should always have piles of hay available. For pellets, keep bunny on the pellets they are used to for at least a couple of weeks. You can then transition to Science Selective or Burgess Excel, those are the most recommended pellets in the UK. Think of pellets as treats. Don't give more than 1 tbsp a day. Keep bunny on the same greens they are used to, if any. The best greens are fresh herbs. All fresh food has to be introduced in very small quantities e.g. just a few sprigs of parsley. Introduce one new food at a time and wait a couple of weeks before introducing another new food. Total fresh food eventually not more than the size of their head per day. No fruit, no carrot, no treats. If you're interested, there a couple of good UK rabbit FB groups: UK rabbit group and House Bunnies UK.


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## Diane R (Feb 8, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> Thanks so much, I’ll look into them at our local pets at home


I personally boycott Pets at Home. They sell factory farmed bunnies, they don't neuter, they don't vaccinate, awful. Their rabbit food is certainly not the best, they sell extremely unhealthy treats and you don't get the best hay in shops generally, much better quality if you buy online.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 8, 2021)

Diane R said:


> You're in the UK, right? There are several good online places for hay e.g. timothyhay.co.uk and hay and straw Hay and Straw Get at least 2-3 varieties of grass hay. This is what they should be eating for several hours a day. Put a handful of fresh hay out several times a day. They should always have piles of hay available. For pellets, keep bunny on the pellets they are used to for at least a couple of weeks. You can then transition to Science Selective or Burgess Excel, those are the most recommended pellets in the UK. Think of pellets as treats. Don't give more than 1 tbsp a day. Keep bunny on the same greens they are used to, if any. The best greens are fresh herbs. All fresh food has to be introduced in very small quantities e.g. just a few sprigs of parsley. Introduce one new food at a time and wait a couple of weeks before introducing another new food. Total fresh food eventually not more than the size of their head per day. No fruit, no carrot, no treats. If you're interested, there a couple of good UK rabbit FB groups: UK rabbit group and House Bunnies UK.


Yes, I am in the UK. I will be getting some food that they will be used to but I don’t know how much. I contacted the vet and they said it’s £75 for a neuter and £90 for a male and that they won’t need to be vaccinated until spring but when I register them, I can go to the shop below the vets as it’s an integrated vet and shop, and ask them about what food to get. I will ask them about Timothy Hay and what greens to feed them. The shop’s website sells Burgess Excel food so I will get that for them but everything else I will want clarification from. Thanks for the advice


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## Diane R (Feb 8, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> Yes, I am in the UK. I will be getting some food that they will be used to but I don’t know how much. I contacted the vet and they said it’s £75 for a neuter and £90 for a male and that they won’t need to be vaccinated until spring but when I register them, I can go to the shop below the vets as it’s an integrated vet and shop, and ask them about what food to get. I will ask them about Timothy Hay and what greens to feed them. The shop’s website sells Burgess Excel food so I will get that for them but everything else I will want clarification from. Thanks for the advice


Please go to a vet on the RWAF vet list: Rabbit Friendly Vet List. Bunnies need vaccinating now, they can be vaccinated from 5 weeks. Waiting longer is taking unnecessary risks.


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## KingBunny (Feb 8, 2021)

Here's the food you want to get if you shop at petsathome. 
I personally buy all my feed and hay from a farm feed store near me which means I can buy in bulk but petsathome stuff is generally pretty good.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 8, 2021)

Diane R said:


> Please go to a vet on the RWAF vet list: Rabbit Friendly Vet List. Bunnies need vaccinating now, they can be vaccinated from 5 weeks. Waiting longer is taking unnecessary risks.


I was told they can be vaccinated from 5 weeks but that I shouldn’t take them out right now and that they’ll be vaccinated in spring. The lady I spoke to over the phone said that they will be safe at home in the hutch and around the house until they get vaccinated... I don’t know what to think of that advice now, I thought she was giving me good advice... she said the vets aren’t doing vaccinations until springtime...


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## KingBunny (Feb 8, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> I was told they can be vaccinated from 5 weeks but that I shouldn’t take them out right now and that they’ll be vaccinated in spring. The lady I spoke to over the phone said that they will be safe at home in the hutch and around the house until they get vaccinated... I don’t know what to think of that advice now, I thought she was giving me good advice... she said the vets aren’t doing vaccinations until springtime...


Listen to the professionals. 
They'll be ok for now.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 8, 2021)

KingBunny said:


> Listen to the professionals.
> They'll be ok for now.


Are you sure? No other practices near me are registering new customers or their pets but this practice is and they told me that they will register my bunny when I have him. All I have to do is call and they’ll let me know if it’s safe to come into store to chat to the staff downstairs about food. She said that as long as I don’t take my bunny anywhere apart from around the house that they will be ok. Will my bunny be ok when I collect him? I’m getting paranoid now. I plan to vaccinate as soon as spring hits.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 8, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> Yes, I am in the UK. I will be getting some food that they will be used to but I don’t know how much. I contacted the vet and they said it’s £75 for a neuter and £90 for a female and that they won’t need to be vaccinated until spring but when I register them, I can go to the shop below the vets as it’s an integrated vet and shop, and ask them about what food to get. I will ask them about Timothy Hay and what greens to feed them. The shop’s website sells Burgess Excel food so I will get that for them but everything else I will want clarification from. Thanks for the advice


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## Mariam+Theo (Feb 8, 2021)

KingBunny said:


> Here's the food you want to get if you shop at petsathome.
> I personally buy all my feed and hay from a farm feed store near me which means I can buy in bulk but petsathome stuff is generally pretty good.
> View attachment 52994
> View attachment 52995


If you want your rabbit to live a very miserable 3 years (instead of 10-12 years) and then die because it is malnourished you would feed them this. I would be very scared to see the condition of your rabbits. 

First off, the pellet is Alfafa based. *Only* baby rabbits should have Alfalfa hay. Adult rabbits should have Timothy-based pellets. The pellets are also HUGE! I would be scared of my rabbit choking on them. A high-quality rabbit pellet should have at least 18% fiber and at most 12% protein. That Pets At Home food has 12% protein, but only 17% fiber. The rabbit would get gi-stasis after eating that because rabbits need lots of fiber in their diet in order to keep their digestive tract moving.

Second, that hay is trash. I don't even know how the rabbit could eat that! It is so brown and gross. It isn't even strands of hay anymore, it is just dust. Rabbits should eat super green, fresh, long-stranded, not dusty hay (see picture below of high quality hay).


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 8, 2021)

I just did some research and it says that the Myxomatosis vaccine should be given at least once a year and that it’s recommended that it be administered in early spring to protect in the summer when the biting flies are around. The lady told me there’s only one vaccine now combined of all vaccinations if that makes sense. This is the info I’ve just found and I’ll also attach an image of the pet care plan I am going with from the vet.


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## TreasuredFriend (Feb 8, 2021)

We have sanctuary buns. All spayed/neutered. Elders, special needs, and house buns. While some sites suggest rabbits needs 2-4 cups of fresh greens & veggies ea/day, our companions get less than that. I just finished conversing with an adopter who's boy has bladder and kidney stones. SubQ treatment is being administered and one stone did flush out successfully. I compliment you for thinking ahead and preparing yourself for 10-12+ years of bun guardianship.

Our crew gets less than two cups of fresh greens/veggies each day and our oldest buns typically live 13 1/2 years. I wish longer, however disabilities, bone cancer, an enlarged liver tumor, general QOL (quality of life due to age) etc. have required a gentle PTS decison based on each companion's medical ailment. The youngsters born in our home rec'd Oxbow Essentials (alfalfa-base) for young rabbits.

I applaud Blue Eyes for giving links to her excellent website and mentioning why rescues & shelters get overloaded with unwanted buns or oops pregnancies when humans are clueless about puberty onset.
- I commend you for helping out a friend who took in an abandoned rabbit when she was pregnant. At one time we had 3 captured buns (off the street) and 16 new babies to get altered/find forever homes for. Someone dumped those 3 adults also, and the females weren't spayed. In shelter and rescue chapters, this happens more than you want to think about!!

I hope your friend will screen carefully so all babes find forever-homes, and hopefully get altered to prevent any further pregnancies. 

Greens, pellets, hay: All our buns have rec'd Oxbow pellets throughout their lifetime. Getting the fruit-loop junk food stuff is not beneficial to longevity. I hope you can find reasonable hay bales or hay companies based on your postal code. A variety and selection of hay is helpful especially when you have a sick bun who's acting off, and fiber intake is important for keeping their incisors trim and optimal GI function.

Happy to learn you already are contacting Rabbit-savvy DVMs in your area!


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## Mariam+Theo (Feb 8, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> Are you sure? No other practices near me are registering new customers or their pets but this practice is and they told me that they will register my bunny when I have him. All I have to do is call and they’ll let me know if it’s safe to come into store to chat to the staff downstairs about food. She said that as long as I don’t take my bunny anywhere apart from around the house that they will be ok. Will my bunny be ok when I collect him? I’m getting paranoid now. I plan to vaccinate as soon as spring hits.





Jennyrobson said:


> I just did some research and it says that the Myxomatosis vaccine should be given at least once a year and that it’s recommended that it be administered in early spring to protect in the summer when the biting flies are around. The lady told me there’s only one vaccine now combined of all vaccinations if that makes sense. This is the info I’ve just found and I’ll also attach an image of the pet care plan I am going with from the vet.



I would wait for the Myxomatosis vaccine in the spring, but go ahead and get the RHD vaccine. I highly suggest looking at the list of vets @Diane R sent and choose the one nearest to you. Those vets are very experienced with rabbits and will know what to do.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 8, 2021)

Mariam+Theo said:


> If you want your rabbit to live a very miserable 3 years (instead of 10-12 years) and then die because it is malnourished you would feed them this. I would be very scared to see the condition of your rabbits.
> 
> First off, the pellet is Alfafa based. *Only* baby rabbits should have Alfalfa hay. Adult rabbits should have Timothy-based pellets. The pellets are also HUGE! I would be scared of my rabbit choking on them. A high-quality rabbit pellet should have at least 18% fiber and at most 12% protein. That Pets At Home food has 12% protein, but only 17% fiber. The rabbit would get gi-stasis after eating that because rabbits need lots of fiber in their diet in order to keep their digestive tract moving.
> 
> Second, that hay is trash. I don't even know how the rabbit could eat that! It is so brown and gross. It isn't even strands of hay anymore, it is just dust. Rabbits should eat super green, fresh, long-stranded, not dusty hay (see picture below of high quality hay).


My friend feeds this hay and I will be getting these pellets (if the vet recommends them)


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 8, 2021)

Mariam+Theo said:


> I would wait for the Myxomatosis vaccine in the spring, but go ahead and get the RHD vaccine. I highly suggest looking at the list of vets @Diane R sent and choose the one nearest to you. Those vets are very experienced with rabbits and will know what to do.


The myxomatosis vaccine and the RHD vaccine here are combined so one injection protects against both...


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## Mariam+Theo (Feb 8, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> My friend feeds this hay and I will be getting these pellets (if the vet recommends them)


Amazing choice of hay and pellets! 


Jennyrobson said:


> The myxomatosis vaccine and the RHD vaccine here are combined so one injection protects against both...


I would actually go ahead and get the combined shot. I just read that it takes three weeks for immunity to build up and the immunity will last for a year, so the rabbit would be fine no matter when you get the shot. 
Vets4Pets: "As a general rule, your rabbit can be vaccinated from seven weeks old with the combined Myxomatosis RHD Plus vaccine and immunity takes three weeks to develop."


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 8, 2021)

TreasuredFriend said:


> We have sanctuary buns. All spayed/neutered. Elders, special needs, and house buns. While some sites suggest rabbits needs 2-4 cups of fresh greens & veggies ea/day, our companions get less than that. I just finished conversing with an adopter who's boy has bladder and kidney stones. SubQ treatment is being administered and one stone did flush out successfully. I compliment you for thinking ahead and preparing yourself for 10-12+ years of bun guardianship.
> 
> Our crew gets less than two cups of fresh greens/veggies each day and our oldest buns typically live 13 1/2 years. I wish longer, however disabilities, bone cancer, an enlarged liver tumor, general QOL (quality of life due to age) etc. have required a gentle PTS decison based on each companion's medical ailment. The youngsters born in our home rec'd Oxbow Essentials (alfalfa-base) for young rabbits.
> 
> ...


I am hoping that’s petsathome will be good for us as I will definitely get the food from there, I want the best for the rabbit and I will do everything to ensure they are in good health. My friend has had checks done on all people interested in the babies and she’s still screening now. She will be viewing all hutches etc and making sure that they are adequate. She is also providing a contact upon the babies going to their new homes that states, once of the appropriate age, the rabbits will be spayed/neutered. She has also said that should they ever be unable to care for the rabbit for whatever reason that they are to return the rabbit to her. We both want the best for the little buns.


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## KingBunny (Feb 8, 2021)

Mariam+Theo said:


> If you want your rabbit to live a very miserable 3 years (instead of 10-12 years) and then die because it is malnourished you would feed them this. I would be very scared to see the condition of your rabbits.
> 
> First off, the pellet is Alfafa based. *Only* baby rabbits should have Alfalfa hay. Adult rabbits should have Timothy-based pellets. The pellets are also HUGE! I would be scared of my rabbit choking on them. A high-quality rabbit pellet should have at least 18% fiber and at most 12% protein. That Pets At Home food has 12% protein, but only 17% fiber. The rabbit would get gi-stasis after eating that because rabbits need lots of fiber in their diet in order to keep their digestive tract moving.
> 
> Second, that hay is trash. I don't even know how the rabbit could eat that! It is so brown and gross. It isn't even strands of hay anymore, it is just dust. Rabbits should eat super green, fresh, long-stranded, not dusty hay (see picture below of high quality hay).


Listen ok. I didn't say I feed my rabbits that stuff and I definitely do not. The reason I showed that feed is that it sounded like the thread starter shopped at petsathome therefore meaning she would need to buy some feed.
I agree it is not the best but it's also definitely not the worst and any rabbit fed on that stuff would live a very happy life.

This forum definitely seems a bit hostile. Very strange atmosphere.


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## Blue eyes (Feb 8, 2021)

Just wanted to clarify something concerning greens/veggies. If you are getting a young rabbit, find out what the rabbit has been eating. If he has not been fed greens, then do not offer any greens for several weeks -- regardless of whether you are told otherwise. Unless you know for sure that nursing momma was being fed greens and the babies were given greens, then you'll need to wait until bunny is at least 12 weeks of age to introduce greens. 

If momma was being fed greens, then the babies will have the enzymes needed to break down those greens. If not, then eating greens can literally kill them. Once they are older, then their tummies can adjust when those greens are slowly introduced.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 8, 2021)

Mariam+Theo said:


> Amazing choice of hay and pellets!
> 
> I would actually go ahead and get the combined shot. I just read that it takes three weeks for immunity to build up and the immunity will last for a year, so the rabbit would be fine no matter when you get the shot.
> Vets4Pets: "As a general rule, your rabbit can be vaccinated from seven weeks old with the combined Myxomatosis RHD Plus vaccine and immunity takes three weeks to develop."


Thanks so much for the approval!

vets4pets is the vet I contacted this morning so I am glad that they gave me the right advice. I’ve calmed down a little now... the rspca website said that kale, cabbage, broccoli, parsley and mint will be good for them daily... is this true? I don’t think that I will feed them fruit but I will obviously feed the same hay, those pellets and then those greens if appropriate. I am going to try and look for the adult version of the pellets


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 8, 2021)

KingBunny said:


> Listen ok. I didn't say I feed my rabbits that stuff and I definitely do not. The reason I showed that feed is that it sounded like the thread starter shopped at petsathome therefore meaning she would need to buy some feed.
> I agree it is not the best but it's also definitely not the worst and any rabbit fed on that stuff would live a very happy life.
> 
> This forum definitely seems a bit hostile. Very strange atmosphere.


I’ve shopped there for dog food in the past or for fish food... nothing to do with rabbits... Petsathome is just easier for me due to the vets4pets being integrated into petsathome... I don’t want any feed recommended to me that would harm my bunny in any slight way at all. I want the best of the best. Not the one that’s “not the worst” but “not the best”. I don’t think that anybody is being hostile, I think that people just love their rabbits. Please don’t recommend things that aren’t very good for my rabbit. Thanks.


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## KingBunny (Feb 8, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> I’ve shopped there for dog food in the past or for fish food... nothing to do with rabbits... Petsathome is just easier for me due to the vets4pets being integrated into petsathome... I don’t want any feed recommended to me that would harm my bunny in any slight way at all. I want the best of the best. Not the one that’s “not the worst” but “not the best”. I don’t think that anybody is being hostile, I think that people just love their rabbits. Please don’t recommend things that aren’t very good for my rabbit. Thanks.


Ok im sorry. 
We all have different views on the subject. 
It really depends what you want out of your rabbits. 
The rabbits on my profile were fed petsathome feed and I personally think they are show quality. 
Totally up to you though.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 8, 2021)

Blue eyes said:


> Just wanted to clarify something concerning greens/veggies. If you are getting a young rabbit, find out what the rabbit has been eating. If he has not been fed greens, then do not offer any greens for several weeks -- regardless of whether you are told otherwise. Unless you know for sure that nursing momma was being fed greens and the babies were given greens, then you'll need to wait until bunny is at least 12 weeks of age to introduce greens.
> 
> If momma was being fed greens, then the babies will have the enzymes needed to break down those greens. If not, then eating greens can literally kill them. Once they are older, then their tummies can adjust when those greens are slowly introduced.


My friend said that she is doing the basics with the rabbits so it’s easier for people when they have them. So she will be feeding hay and pellets to them but no greens as far as I am aware. Should I still ask if the mother ate greens whilst pregnant? I’d be happy to wait 12 weeks regardless as I just want them to be safe


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 8, 2021)

KingBunny said:


> Ok im sorry.
> We all have different views on the subject.
> It really depends what you want out of your rabbits.
> The rabbits on my profile were fed petsathome feed and I personally think they are show quality.
> Totally up to you though.


I don’t “want anything” out of my rabbits other than a loving, happy and healthy pet. If it’s not something that you would feed your rabbits, how could you recommend that someone feed it to their 8 week old bunny? Something doesn’t seem right there to me.


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## Blue eyes (Feb 8, 2021)

The following chart is a great resource for comparing different pellet feeds. Note that there are two charts -- one for juvenile rabbit feed and one for adult rabbits. 

Rabbit Food Comparision - Brand, Type, Nutritional Analysis

The Pets at Home brand for juveniles is actually pretty good, but the adult version is not.

As for the greens, momma rabbit would have to have been fed greens not only when pregnant but also while nursing and then those greens available to the babies as they started to nibble on food. If this is not the case, then definitely hold off on greens until 12 weeks of age. 

When it comes time to introduce them, it should be done safely. The following page on my website explains how to do this:








Greens & Veggies


[ Tablet users, try the "web" version by clicking on "web" at the bottom of this page for a better, user-friendly format . ]



rabbitsindoors.weebly.com


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## KingBunny (Feb 8, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> I don’t “want anything” out of my rabbits other than a loving, happy and healthy pet. If it’s not something that you would feed your rabbits, how could you recommend that someone feed it to their 8 week old bunny? Something doesn’t seem right there to me.


Sorry I'm not looking for an argument


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 8, 2021)

Blue eyes said:


> The following chart is a great resource for comparing different pellet feeds. Note that there are two charts -- one for juvenile rabbit feed and one for adult rabbits.
> 
> Rabbit Food Comparision - Brand, Type, Nutritional Analysis
> 
> ...


Thanks for that info, definitely enlightening. From personal experience, if I was to feed the bunny greens from 12 weeks, what greens do you suggest I start with? Are some easier on babies or...? Sorry I’m just new to the whole diet thing with babies. Also, what Burgess Excel pellets do you recommend for adults? What age do I transfer them to the adult food?


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 8, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> Thanks for that info, definitely enlightening. From personal experience, if I was to feed the bunny greens from 12 weeks, what greens do you suggest I start with? Are some easier on babies or...? Sorry I’m just new to the whole diet thing with babies. Also, what Burgess Excel pellets do you recommend for adults? What age do I transfer them to the adult food?


Does this adult food look good?
Nutritional info is attached


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## Blue eyes (Feb 8, 2021)

When introducing greens, anything on the "daily" list (at the link) is fine. Just be sure to follow the recommendations on that link for _how_ to introduce -- small amount to start and only one type.

Rabbits are considered adults at 6-7 months of age, so that is the time to begin transitioning their pellets. You'll be mixing the juvenile pellets with the adult pellets when the time comes to switch them over.

Check the chart for options. The ones with green highlights are the better options. Just see what's available in your area and then check it on the chart.


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## Blue eyes (Feb 8, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> Does this adult food look good?
> Nutritional info is attached


The protein level is rather low for a young rabbit (though fine for an adult rabbit). Young rabbits need more protein since they are growing. 16% is recommended but those pellets have 12.6%. The rest of the analysis looks good though. If alfalfa hay is mixed in with her timothy hay, then that would up the protein.

If you want the "best," find a food, that is green all the way across the chart.


Rabbit Food Comparision - Brand, Type, Nutritional Analysis



CORRECTION: I just saw on the ingredients list that you attached, that it differs from what the chart has. The chart may not be fully updated, or Burgess may have changed their formula. The ingredients you showed has wheat listed before grass. The grasses should ideally be listed first (meaning there is more of that because ingredients are listed in order of most to least ingredients). So that would be a 'negative.'


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## Apollo’s Slave (Feb 8, 2021)

I haven’t read the thread all the way, just mostly. I feed my rabbit Science Selective Grain Free, but Burgess Excel is also a good brand. I personally buy my hay in bulk from haybox.club - as it’s a lot cheaper than buying it in bags and more sustainable as well, also better quality than the pets at home hay. But the burgess excel and science selective hays are good too. Just make sure that it’s green


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 8, 2021)

Blue eyes said:


> The protein level is rather low for a young rabbit (though fine for an adult rabbit). Young rabbits need more protein since they are growing. 16% is recommended but those pellets have 12.6%. The rest of the analysis looks good though. If alfalfa hay is mixed in with her timothy hay, then that would up the protein.
> 
> If you want the "best," find a food, that is green all the way across the chart.
> 
> ...


This is the hay that my friend uses and is the pellets I plan to use for a young rabbit, along with the nutritional information for the pellets.
I will try to find an adult food that has grass first.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 8, 2021)

Found this adult food now, I think it’s better.


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## KingBunny (Feb 8, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> Found this adult food now, I think it’s better.


Good choice.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 8, 2021)

Diane R said:


> I personally boycott Pets at Home. They sell factory farmed bunnies, they don't neuter, they don't vaccinate, awful. Their rabbit food is certainly not the best, they sell extremely unhealthy treats and you don't get the best hay in shops generally, much better quality if you buy online.


Also, only just seen this hence why I’m replying a bit later.
I’ve never bought a bunny from petsathome, the vets that is integrated with them is supposedly very good. These vets do vaccinate and neuter/spay as well as offer other treatments such as annual vaccinations, dental treatment and nail clipping to just mention a few. I will be looking around for some reputable websites I can order from after I have a chat about the best things to feed. I already have some brands of hay/pellets etc in mind from all the info you and everyone else has given me but I will chat with the vet to see what they recommend


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## cuteus (Feb 9, 2021)

Madelyn L. said:


> In the us it costs 195 for me, which is the same as 166 euros.


Holy! where are you? I have been quoted $500 the lowest and over $1000 the highest! Those are rabbit savvy practices. 
Of 3 male rabbits, I am neutering the last one (6yr +) and only because he developed a testicular tumor last year. They are rarely malignant but I will do it since no one can tell me if the tumor can be painful. He still plays with his beach ball, runs around the house and lays on his stomach. So, it does not seem to affect mobility much. Our first rabbit developed back problems and a neurogenic bladder, probably because of the back issues, so it was not that he was intact. The second, lived to be 12+ and was also intact. The current one, has the testicular tumor. The 2nd did spray when excited but the current one never has. I am not sure that the behaviors mentioned here are due to the testosterone as much as it is personality. The first bun humped our legs (but he was a breeder rescue and might be residual behavior also), the 2nd never humped us but he had a stuffed rabbit that he used for that. The current one, not interested in humping the toy or us, but if he catches the beach ball he is rolling around, he does hump that ball. Maybe you can wait and see what behaviors he exhibits that you can't live with. 
I don't know why neutering is damned expensive where I live, NYC outskirts, but it is impossible for some to afford even $500! Good luck!


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## cuteus (Feb 9, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> Found this adult food now, I think it’s better.


I would suggest to contact the food maker and ask what kind of grass, it is odd the way that is listed. In the US, they would not get away with just listing "grass". My buns have all been fed Timothy Complete from Kaytee. It is the only item I buy from that company as they have a lot of junk. When we first got bunnies, money was tight and the "best" food was double the price. Timothy Complete has a recipe that allowed my last bunny to live 12+ years. Of course he also had access to Orchard grass hay and greens. Vets don't recommend shots in the US. Never vaccinated my buns, vets never suggested them. They were all indoors, though. Each bun had a preference of items to chew that were no-no. If yours is let to roam, watch and see what he tends to sniff and chew. Remote control buttons, game controllers, electric wires, magazines, papers of all kinds, furniture, etc. Each of my bunnies liked remotes, but one liked electrical wires and the other did not. One liked regular paper, the other the glossy kind. Then, there is the surprise attack on items he used to ignore. So, don't trust they will continue a pattern, the sneaky things. It is amazing the things they chewed on and survived without incident. But, it is not worth the risk. I have 2 or 3 vet practices because, just like kids, they tend to get sick on holidays and weekends, having more than one, ensures someone will be available if you need an urgent appointment.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 9, 2021)

cuteus said:


> I would suggest to contact the food maker and ask what kind of grass, it is odd the way that is listed. In the US, they would not get away with just listing "grass". My buns have all been fed Timothy Complete from Kaytee. It is the only item I buy from that company as they have a lot of junk. When we first got bunnies, money was tight and the "best" food was double the price. Timothy Complete has a recipe that allowed my last bunny to live 12+ years. Of course he also had access to Orchard grass hay and greens. Vets don't recommend shots in the US. Never vaccinated my buns, vets never suggested them. They were all indoors, though. Each bun had a preference of items to chew that were no-no. If yours is let to roam, watch and see what he tends to sniff and chew. Remote control buttons, game controllers, electric wires, magazines, papers of all kinds, furniture, etc. Each of my bunnies liked remotes, but one liked electrical wires and the other did not. One liked regular paper, the other the glossy kind. Then, there is the surprise attack on items he used to ignore. So, don't trust they will continue a pattern, the sneaky things. It is amazing the things they chewed on and survived without incident. But, it is not worth the risk. I have 2 or 3 vet practices because, just like kids, they tend to get sick on holidays and weekends, having more than one, ensures someone will be available if you need an urgent appointment.


I think that things are different in the UK. Mine will have access to hay and pellets and eventually greens. Vaccinations here are important for rabbits and I will be vaccinating my bunny, even though he will be an indoor bunny. I will also be neutering/spaying (not sure of gender yet but got into the routine of saying he) because I don’t want to take the risk of either gender getting cancer. Mine will be left to roam upstairs had I will remove all things that could be dangerous to him. The stairs will be blocked so that he is unable to fall down them. The vet that I am planning on registering them with has an emergency number so more than one vet won’t be necessary.


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## Apollo’s Slave (Feb 9, 2021)

It is always always a good idea to vaccinate your rabbit in the UK whether they live indoors or outdoors (just for reference in case anyone reads back on this). We have Myxo, RHD1 & 2 here, unlike in the US where a few cases have started to pop up here and there. 




Jennyrobson said:


> The stairs will be blocked so that he is unable to fall down them.


This is just an idea in case it’s something you’d like to do. My rabbit had learned to go up and down the stairs when they wanted to, and I’ve never had one fall down the stairs (I can imagine it varies per the rabbits personality). But yeah, they can go up and down haha. Kind of random


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## Diane R (Feb 9, 2021)

Apollo’s Slave said:


> It is always always a good idea to vaccinate your rabbit in the UK whether they live indoors or outdoors (just for reference in case anyone reads back on this). We have Myxo, RHD1 & 2 here, unlike in the US where a few cases have started to pop up here and there.
> 
> 
> 
> This is just an idea in case it’s something you’d like to do. My rabbit had learned to go up and down the stairs when they wanted to, and I’ve never had one fall down the stairs (I can imagine it varies per the rabbits personality). But yeah, they can go up and down haha. Kind of random


I agree, going up and down stairs is good exercise but of course the stairs have to be safe and non-slippery.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 9, 2021)

Diane R said:


> I agree, going up and down stairs is good exercise but of course the stairs have to be safe and non-slippery.


We have a sort of piece of carpet up the middle of ours so I’m unsure... not slippery but our stairs are in two parts, there’s one flight, then a landing area, then another flight... I don’t think I’ll be happy for them to go downstairs just to be safe. I’ll just carry them down there if they need to go down there for whatever reason as in to leave the house for a vet appointment.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 9, 2021)

Apollo’s Slave said:


> It is always always a good idea to vaccinate your rabbit in the UK whether they live indoors or outdoors (just for reference in case anyone reads back on this). We have Myxo, RHD1 & 2 here, unlike in the US where a few cases have started to pop up here and there.
> 
> 
> 
> This is just an idea in case it’s something you’d like to do. My rabbit had learned to go up and down the stairs when they wanted to, and I’ve never had one fall down the stairs (I can imagine it varies per the rabbits personality). But yeah, they can go up and down haha. Kind of random


I will definitely be vaccinating and neutering/spaying because I did a bit of research myself. I have a back yard that will be fenced in this summer so they will be able to go there for exercise during the day. They will live indoors and will just have a few hours out there throughout the day, under supervision obviously. I may not let them go up and down the stairs as I am super paranoid and we have odd stairs but perhaps my mind will be changed when I actually have the rabbit.


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## Diane R (Feb 9, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> We have a sort of piece of carpet up the middle of ours so I’m unsure... not slippery but our stairs are in two parts, there’s one flight, then a landing area, then another flight... I don’t think I’ll be happy for them to go downstairs just to be safe. I’ll just carry them down there if they need to go down there for whatever reason as in to leave the house for a vet appointment.


Stairs sound OK. But anyway not something to worry about right now. See how it goes. Most bunnies hate being carried.


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## Apollo’s Slave (Feb 9, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> I will definitely be vaccinating and neutering/spaying because I did a bit of research myself. I have a back yard that will be fenced in this summer so they will be able to go there for exercise during the day. They will live indoors and will just have a few hours out there throughout the day, under supervision obviously. I may not let them go up and down the stairs as I am super paranoid and we have odd stairs but perhaps my mind will be changed when I actually have the rabbit.


Yep! Sounds like you’ve got a really good plan!


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 9, 2021)

Diane R said:


> Stairs sound OK. But anyway not something to worry about right now. See how it goes. Most bunnies hate being carried.


I meant with the pet carrier I’m looking at getting which will be for car journeys to the vet for example. The hutch will be upstairs so I can just pick them up when they’re near the hutch for me to put them back in it so they can have a bit of a nap. Do some like being carried? I read that mini lops are affectionate and cuddly but obviously that might be wrong and they may prefer to be left to themselves. The mother of the rabbits loves being on my friend’s lap 24/7 and will try to get into her bed to sleep as well. Are mini lops affectionate, usually?
EDIT - my friend has the babies on her lap often and they lay down to sleep on her, I can’t attach videos on this forum otherwise I would show the video I’ve seen of one of the babies sat on her lap and then curling up and going to sleep. I’ve included one picture somewhere above ^ of one of the babies sleeping on her. They seem quite cuddly right now. Will that change?


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## KingBunny (Feb 9, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> We have a sort of piece of carpet up the middle of ours so I’m unsure... not slippery but our stairs are in two parts, there’s one flight, then a landing area, then another flight... I don’t think I’ll be happy for them to go downstairs just to be safe. I’ll just carry them down there if they need to go down there for whatever reason as in to leave the house for a vet appointment.


Rabbits hate to be carried! 
Mine actually really hopping up and down the stairs but I guess you don't want to take any unessesary risks. I really appreciate what you're doing for your future rabbit, it's good when people are responsible and take good care of their pets. There are a lot who don't.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 9, 2021)

KingBunny said:


> Rabbits hate to be carried!
> Mine actually really hopping up and down the stairs but I guess you don't want to take any unessesary risks. I really appreciate what you're doing for your future rabbit, it's good when people are responsible and take good care of their pets. There are a lot who don't.


I was referring to a pet carrier, should have clarified that, sorry.


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## Diane R (Feb 9, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> I meant with the pet carrier I’m looking at getting which will be for car journeys to the vet for example. The hutch will be upstairs so I can just pick them up when they’re near the hutch for me to put them back in it so they can have a bit of a nap. Do some like being carried? I read that mini lops are affectionate and cuddly but obviously that might be wrong and they may prefer to be left to themselves. The mother of the rabbits loves being on my friend’s lap 24/7 and will try to get into her bed to sleep as well. Are mini lops affectionate, usually?
> EDIT - my friend has the babies on her lap often and they lay down to sleep on her, I can’t attach videos on this forum otherwise I would show the video I’ve seen of one of the babies sat on her lap and then curling up and going to sleep. I’ve included one picture somewhere above ^ of one of the babies sleeping on her. They seem quite cuddly right now. Will that change?


This is a very good carrier for bunnies: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Catit-Cabr...87&hvtargid=pla-575119185506&psc=1&th=1&psc=1 It's very rare for bunnies to enjoy being picked up. They all have their individual personalities, I don't think you can generalise in terms of breed. And their personalities change as they get older, you can't predict what a baby is going to be like when they hit puberty.


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## cuteus (Feb 9, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> I meant with the pet carrier I’m looking at getting which will be for car journeys to the vet for example. The hutch will be upstairs so I can just pick them up when they’re near the hutch for me to put them back in it so they can have a bit of a nap. Do some like being carried? I read that mini lops are affectionate and cuddly but obviously that might be wrong and they may prefer to be left to themselves. The mother of the rabbits loves being on my friend’s lap 24/7 and will try to get into her bed to sleep as well. Are mini lops affectionate, usually?
> EDIT - my friend has the babies on her lap often and they lay down to sleep on her, I can’t attach videos on this forum otherwise I would show the video I’ve seen of one of the babies sat on her lap and then curling up and going to sleep. I’ve included one picture somewhere above ^ of one of the babies sleeping on her. They seem quite cuddly right now. Will that change?


The reason they hate to be picked up is ingrained in their genes as that is how they get carried by a predator. They instinctively react to the lifting. Given that yours is getting a lot of socialization, maybe they won't mind as much. I had two mini lops and a mini rex. The minilops would enjoy long, long petting sessions, pressed their heads to the floor and go into a trance while getting petted. The mini rex, not the same, but could be that he was abandoned in the pine barrens and was traumatized. Our first mini lop would jump on my daughter's bed and stay with her petting him for "hours". Hopefully yours will be the cuddly kind. That first one would press and lean on my daughter, like bonded rabbits do. I would say that mini lops do seem more inclined to closeness with humans, but I only have the 3 for comparison.
As for the emergency number for vet care, almost all of them have emergency contact but will direct you to a 24 hr clinic for care. Just make sure that the emergency number is for your regular vet and not a redirection. One of the 3 vets have Sunday hours, so that is useful. When I needed an urgent appointment, I would find that 2 out 3 would still be a long wait for appt, while the 3rd was readily available. Always good to have a back up plan. Can't wait until your baby is home and see him interact!


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 9, 2021)

cuteus said:


> The reason they hate to be picked up is ingrained in their genes as that is how they get carried by a predator. They instinctively react to the lifting. Given that yours is getting a lot of socialization, maybe they won't mind as much. I had two mini lops and a mini rex. The minilops would enjoy long, long petting sessions, pressed their heads to the floor and go into a trance while getting petted. The mini rex, not the same, but could be that he was abandoned in the pine barrens and was traumatized. Our first mini lop would jump on my daughter's bed and stay with her petting him for "hours". Hopefully yours will be the cuddly kind. That first one would press and lean on my daughter, like bonded rabbits do. I would say that mini lops do seem more inclined to closeness with humans, but I only have the 3 for comparison.
> As for the emergency number for vet care, almost all of them have emergency contact but will direct you to a 24 hr clinic for care. Just make sure that the emergency number is for your regular vet and not a redirection. One of the 3 vets have Sunday hours, so that is useful. When I needed an urgent appointment, I would find that 2 out 3 would still be a long wait for appt, while the 3rd was readily available. Always good to have a back up plan. Can't wait until your baby is home and see him interact!


They are being very well socialised so hopefully this will help with the carrying element, if not, completely fine as I will not carry them excessively. I will just do what they are happy with. Once litter trained, are they ok to be up on beds etc? Also, do mini lops bond with one specific person or with a number of people? I will be asking all of these questions in relation to 24hr care when I take my rabbit to the vet. I will be collecting the rabbit on the 20th of March, which is the start of spring according to google so I may even be able to take them that day, sort out the monthly pet plan and get them vaccinated either that day or the Monday. Also, are your buns microchipped? My plan offers microchipping for £10 but I don’t know if it’s really useful or...


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## Apollo’s Slave (Feb 9, 2021)

yeah, it’s fine for your rabbit to be on your bed once they’ve been trained. But it might take a few tries before they’re on your bed without weeing on it, even if they’ve been fixed and litter trained.

I think it depends on the personality of the rabbit, not the breed. But I do think rabbits can bond with more than one person. Apollo likes me and my mum but only one of my brothers.

My bunny has been microchipped. It’s not likely that your rabbit will get away, but it’s always a good option.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 9, 2021)

Apollo’s Slave said:


> yeah, it’s fine for your rabbit to be on your bed once they’ve been trained. But it might take a few tries before they’re on your bed without weeing on it, even if they’ve been fixed and litter trained.
> 
> I think it depends on the personality of the rabbit, not the breed. But I do think rabbits can bond with more than one person. Apollo likes me and my mum but only one of my brothers.
> 
> My bunny has been microchipped. It’s not likely that your rabbit will get away, but it’s always a good option.


I won’t mind if they do wee on my bed, I have an English bulldog (who won’t be near the rabbit as he sleeps in our kitchen) who we rescued from a puppy farm. He suffers with hydrocephalus and is also cryptorchid and even after we trained him to go outside, he’d always have the odd wee on his blankets so it’s not a problem at all, these things can be washed. I remember my first rabbit, unsure of the breed but he was gorgeous, his name was Jack. I will attach a picture here if possible, one of me and jack and one of my dog.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 9, 2021)

Also, 
Does anyone have any suggestions for names? I’m thinking of brown themed ones as I definitely am having a brown one just unsure of gender.
So far I have:
For boys - Chip, Dash, Cola and Grizzly.
For girls - Acorn and Pudding. 
(more girl names definitely welcome).


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## Madelyn L. (Feb 9, 2021)

I have a few names if I want to hear them...
These can be for both genders kinda:
- peanut
-coconut
- toffee
- mocha
-bear
-hazel
-amber
-muffin


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 9, 2021)

Madelyn L. said:


> I have a few names if I want to hear them...
> These can be for both genders kinda:
> - peanut
> -coconut
> ...


Bear is my dog’s brother’s name and peanut is his mother’s name!
Muffin is adorable... gonna steal that . Thank you!


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## Madelyn L. (Feb 9, 2021)

Your welcome!!


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 10, 2021)

I am so disappointed... my friend’s mother reserved the rabbits with family members as she didn’t want to say no to them despite knowing I wanted one...


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## Diane R (Feb 10, 2021)

Don't worry, there are many bunnies in rescue centres looking for a good home. This little guy for example: BUZZ - Newport Animal Centre - Detail - rspca.org.uk - RSPCA


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 10, 2021)

Diane R said:


> Don't worry, there are many bunnies in rescue centres looking for a good home. This little guy for example: BUZZ - Newport Animal Centre - Detail - rspca.org.uk - RSPCA


He is stunning... I think I will fill out an adoption form... thanks!


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## Apollo’s Slave (Feb 10, 2021)

Aw that’s so horrible!! I can’t even think about how disappointed you are!!

On a plus side as @Diane R said! There are so many gorgeous buns that are in rescues and can be just has cuddly, friendly and adorable!!


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 10, 2021)

Apollo’s Slave said:


> Aw that’s so horrible!! I can’t even think about how disappointed you are!!
> 
> On a plus side as @Diane R said! There are so many gorgeous buns that are in rescues and can be just has cuddly, friendly and adorable!!


I feel, literally heartbroken. I know it seems silly but I had my heart set on this bunny and I was learning everything to give it the best home possible... I filled out the form so hopefully I get a response soon and can meet with Buzz... he does look a very cute chap. Maybe this will be better for me


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## Blue eyes (Feb 10, 2021)

Getting a rabbit from a rescue is ideal!! --not just because of it being a rescue, but also because you get to see just what their personalities are like! (There is no way to tell what you are getting with a baby because those baby personalities seldom have anything to do with their adult personalities. And early handling of babies does NOT mean they will be more handle-able as adults. That trait depends solely on their innate temperament. You will get to see a rabbit's temperament if the rabbit is already fixed.)

Another advantage is you won't have to pay for neuter costs or first vaccinations.

And another advantage is you get to skip that hormonal period which often comes with spraying urine on people and walls, messy cecal poos smushed on the floor and in fur, aggression, biting, forgetting potty habits, etc.

These are all reasons that makes adoption of an already-fixed rabbit a big plus!!

You can check other bunnies depending on how far you are willing to go by checking this site (same as from @Diane R) and plugging in a certain location:








Search rescue pets in need of adoption today | RSPCA


Transform an animals life forever and explore the range of cats, kittens, puppies, dogs and more looking for a loving home near you today.




www.rspca.org.uk


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 10, 2021)

Just a random question, how do you bathe a rabbit? I’ve heard you can’t actually put them in a bath but if they have a bit of an odour, what do you do? My cousin’s rabbit always has a slight odour that clings to your clothes after you’ve handled her.


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## Apollo’s Slave (Feb 10, 2021)

Rabbits don’t really smell. And if they do, it’s a sweet, hay sort smell. So you won’t really need to clean them - I’ve never had a rabbit smell (just the room the rabbit was in). The rabbit will just clean itself like a cat


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 10, 2021)

Maybe that’s the smell she has and I’m just not used to it... thanks for the info!


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

Hey guys... I have some news...


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

In addition to my above post*
He had hard stools yesterday and has seemingly enjoyed the Burgess excel pellets and alfalfa hay but his stool is soft this morning... what do I do? 
image of stool is attached.


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## Diane R (Feb 11, 2021)

Pet shop bunny? Have you got grass hay? You can give some alfalfa but he should eat mainly grass hay. If he is eating grass hay well reduce pellets to 1-2 tbsp a day. The poop will get better, he's probably stressed from the move.


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## Apollo’s Slave (Feb 11, 2021)

I think those are cecotropes. I can’t see the picture too well. But yeah, I would add grass hay into his diet, and the the poops should improve. Try not to change anything else in his diet for now though


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

Diane R said:


> Pet shop bunny? Have you got grass hay? You can give some alfalfa but he should eat mainly grass hay. If he is eating grass hay well reduce pellets to 1-2 tbsp a day. The poop will get better, he's probably stressed from the move.


No, he isn’t a pet shop bunny. Pet shops here don’t sell bunnies. He’s from a registered breeder. I contacted the vet and the vet said she’s happy with his poops.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

Apollo’s Slave said:


> I think those are cecotropes. I can’t see the picture too well. But yeah, I would add grass hay into his diet, and the the poops should improve. Try not to change anything else in his diet for now though


His poops are quite soft, but they do stick together and crumble a bit if they’re squished. He’s completely fine in himself. I thought alfalfa was good for bunnies...


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## Apollo’s Slave (Feb 11, 2021)

Alfalfa hay is okay for baby bunnies, but that along with alfalfa pellets can cause some health/digestive problems (like bad poops) and it’s harder to transition them to grass hay when they become adults. So generally alfalfa pellets and Timothy hay is recommended. But if the breeder fed alfalfa hay and pellets it’s best to stick to that for the next week or so, to not stress the rabbit out more with the big change. But adding grass hay to the alfalfa would help


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

Apollo’s Slave said:


> Alfalfa hay is okay for baby bunnies, but that along with alfalfa pellets can cause some health/digestive problems (like bad poops) and it’s harder to transition them to grass hay when they become adults. So generally alfalfa pellets and Timothy hay is recommended. But if the breeder fed alfalfa hay and pellets it’s best to stick to that for the next week or so, to not stress the rabbit out more with the big change. But adding grass hay to the alfalfa would help


I feed him this, sorry when I purchased this the sign said alfalfa but it’s Timothy I think. Is this good for him? The person fed him on adult petsathome nuggets... she also gave him greens once in a while and the mother ate these as well but I think I’m going to wait until he’s a bit older to give him greens again... he was thoroughly enjoying his pellets and hay last night. The vet told me that changes in food can cause a bit of a loose stool and that he should be fine in a few days. She fed him this and told me she occasionally fed him cabbage, spinach, broccoli and carrots.


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## Apollo’s Slave (Feb 11, 2021)

I would continue feeding what the breeder had fed if you have any, if not you can continue feeding that or transition him to those ones. I wouldn’t give any veggies for now though. 
I do think he’s probably pooping like that because he’s feeling stressed. So I would leave him in his own space for a little while, checking up on him every half hour or so. 
Try not to stress him out too much. For their first few days at home, it’s best to try not to make any huge changes so they can settle down and have a bit more time to feel comfortable. The main things ofc, are to make sure he’s eating and pooping.

Hes really cute btw!!


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

Apollo’s Slave said:


> I would continue feeding what the breeder had fed if you have any, if not you can continue feeding that or transition him to those ones. I wouldn’t give any veggies for now though.
> I do think he’s probably pooping like that because he’s feeling stressed. So I would leave him in his own space for a little while, checking up on him every half hour or so.
> Try not to stress him out too much. For their first few days at home, it’s best to try not to make any huge changes so they can settle down and have a bit more time to feel comfortable. The main things ofc, are to make sure he’s eating and pooping.
> 
> Hes really cute btw!!


I don’t have any of the food that the breeder fed... the pictures above are of what I’m feeding him, Burgess Excel pellets and Timothy hay... his poop is not as squishy now... I think he’s better. I’ll include a picture of him right now.
*also does anybody have any names for him? Unisex names if possible or just boy and girl names because I’m not actually sure he’s a boy because I haven’t been to the vet with him yet. 
I was thinking of:
• Oreo
• Moony 
• Meteor 
No girl names as of yet.


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## Apollo’s Slave (Feb 11, 2021)

Ah yay!

Moony is cute


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

Apollo’s Slave said:


> Ah yay!
> 
> Moony is cute


Thanks! Also can anybody recommend good brushes for him? I’m currently using this as petsathome didn’t have any in stock... I need to wait until I get paid to get a brush for him but I get paid on Monday so hopefully this will do until then. He’s not moulting at all, is that normal? He’s also letting me brush him. I don’t think this brush is adequate but if it is, let me know.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

Also, how many pellets should I give him? He appears to prefer pellets to the hay but will eat the hay.


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## Mariam+Theo (Feb 11, 2021)

Aww! He is so cute! 
I would only give him 1-2 tbs of Burgess pellets and unlimited timothy hay for now. He really needs to eat lots of timothy hay since that will be the main thing he eats for the rest of his life.
Since the mom rabbit ate some veggies, you can give him a few, but I would be extra careful so he doesn't get sick. For veggies, the best options are dark leaf lettuces -no iceberg-, turnip greens, mustard greens, carrot tops, cilantro, and herbs. Stay away from all fruits and store-bought treats (I would always stay away from store-bought treats, even when he is an adult since they are full of bad ingredients).
It is normal that he isn't molting. Rabbits only molt 2 times per year, normally in the spring and fall. For brushes, check out these links:
Grooming Suggestions??? Allergies Out of Control! 
Best brush for Mini Rex?


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## Apollo’s Slave (Feb 11, 2021)

I have a zoom groom and a hair buster (fur buster?) can’t remember the name. Both work well, but I prefer the zoom groom with my rabbits fur texture. It’s normal that he isn’t shedding yet! He might start shedding over the next few weeks as it gets warmed, or he may start shedding, if he was an outdoor bunny.

The amount of pellets kind of depends on what you want to do and how much he will eat I guess. I don’t know many rabbits that prefer hay over pellets, haha, so it is a good idea to limit it. My rabbit gets fed 1/4 cup of pellets.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

Mariam+Theo said:


> Aww! He is so cute!
> I would only give him 1-2 tbs of Burgess pellets and unlimited timothy hay for now. He really needs to eat lots of timothy hay since that will be the main thing he eats for the rest of his life.
> Since the mom rabbit ate some veggies, you can give him a few, but I would be extra careful so he doesn't get sick. For veggies, the best options are dark leaf lettuces -no iceberg-, turnip greens, mustard greens, carrot tops, cilantro, and herbs. Stay away from all fruits and store-bought treats (I would always stay away from store-bought treats, even when he is an adult since they are full of bad ingredients).
> It is normal that he isn't molting. Rabbits only molt 2 times per year, normally in the spring and fall. For brushes, check out these links:
> ...


He is eating some hay right now... I give him these but he’s not really fussed to be honest. Most of the time he’s with me socialising but after his hutch is cleaned and in the night he’s in there. Where can I get dark leaf lettuces from? Will he be ok to just eat them? Instead of a variety of veg? I think I will wait until he is around 5 months to allow him to eat them. I will check out brushes now. Is the other brush I have suitable or no?


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## Apollo’s Slave (Feb 11, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> Is the other brush I have suitable or no?


The little yellow one? It’s fine, but it is a little small, so it may take a while to brush him and might not do it very effectively


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

Apollo’s Slave said:


> The little yellow one? It’s fine, but it is a little small, so it may take a while to brush him and might not do it very effectively ☺


I wish I could’ve gotten a better one when I was there... but they had 0 in stock... I did brush him a little today and it seemed to get out the little knots etc. I will definitely invest in a better one though. Do you brush their tummies? I didn’t do that today...


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## Mariam+Theo (Feb 11, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> He is eating some hay right now... I give him these but he’s not really fussed to be honest. Most of the time he’s with me socialising but after his hutch is cleaned and in the night he’s in there. Where can I get dark leaf lettuces from? Will he be ok to just eat them? Instead of a variety of veg? I think I will wait until he is around 5 months to allow him to eat them. I will check out brushes now. Is the other brush I have suitable or no?


If the little toy is plastic, I wouldn't give it to him. You don't want him to eat it and get a blockage. You can get dark leaf lettuces from any grocery store. You can give him a variety of veggies if you want to, but it won't hurt him if you stick to the same stuff. I buy a box of Spring Mix every week for Theo, and then buy something extra (cilantro, herbs, greens, etc.) just to change it up. I think it's a great idea to wait to give him veggies until he is 5 months!

Please remove all the pine shavings from his hutch! It will cause respiratory issues. Also, it will make litter training so difficult since the rabbit will think it can use the bathroom all over the hutch. You can put a cotton blanket or rug on the floor so the rabbit isn't on the wood. I also suggest getting a larger litter box, such as a cat litter box or a plastic storage box. Here are several links on litter training: Litter Training





Litter Box Training: Tips & Tricks To Be Successful!


Litter Pan It is first very important to find a litter pan that your rabbit will be comfortable using. There are numerous different types of litter pans available which can make it overwhelming to choose, so I recommend the following ones which are tried and true: #1: IKEA Cat Litter Box - $6...




www.rabbitsonline.net


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## Mariam+Theo (Feb 11, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> I wish I could’ve gotten a better one when I was there... but they had 0 in stock... I did brush him a little today and it seemed to get out the little knots etc. I will definitely invest in a better one though. Do you brush their tummies? I didn’t do that today...


That brush will work for now. You do not brush him that often since rabbits do a great job of cleaning themselves. There is no need to brush his tummy, he won't like it, and handling him too much could make him aggressive in the future.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

Mariam+Theo said:


> If the little toy is plastic, I wouldn't give it to him. You don't want him to eat it and get a blockage. You can get dark leaf lettuces from any grocery store. You can give him a variety of veggies if you want to, but it won't hurt him if you stick to the same stuff. I buy a box of Spring Mix every week for Theo, and then buy something extra (cilantro, herbs, greens, etc.) just to change it up. I think it's a great idea to wait to give him veggies until he is 5 months!
> 
> Please remove all the pine shavings from his hutch! It will cause respiratory issues. Also, it will make litter training so difficult since the rabbit will think it can use the bathroom all over the hutch. You can put a cotton blanket or rug on the floor so the rabbit isn't on the wood. Some people use fleece, but fleece will cause sore hocks, so stick with cotton. I also suggest getting a larger litter box, such as a cat litter box or a plastic storage box. Here are several links on litter training: Litter Training
> 
> ...


I apologise for the shavings in the hutch... I spoke to the person at the till in petsathome and they advised I get that one... it doesn’t say pine shavings on the packaging or I wouldn’t have got it... will a black rug be better? Will I have to wash it daily? I’ll look at getting a cat litter box too. I feel terrible now about the shavings...


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

What else can I put in there for him? Other than a rug?


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## KingBunny (Feb 11, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> What else can I put in there for him? Other than a rug?


For bedding you mean?


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## Mariam+Theo (Feb 11, 2021)

It's okay! I had shavings in Theo's hutch when I first got him because I didn't know! Unfortunately, most of the petsathome people don't know how to care for rabbits. You can get any color rug, just make sure it is cotton woven. I have a nice grey rug in Theo's playpen and I never have to wash it since he is litter trained. I do vacuum it off every week to get up any pieces of timothy hay. I also have smaller mats around the litter box so if he pees out of the litter box on accident I can easily clean it up. I have attached a picture of Theo's pen from a couple of months ago, I have changed several things up since then.


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## Apollo’s Slave (Feb 11, 2021)

Towels and old blankets will work fine in his hutch. Don’t worry too much about the shavings (although do take them out). Most of the employees at [email protected] aren’t very educated in rabbits! My blankets and towels get washed once weekly, but if the rabbit isn’t litter trained, you’ll probably need to wash it every few days.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

Mariam+Theo said:


> It's okay! I had shavings in Theo's hutch when I first got him because I didn't know! Unfortunately, most of the petsathome people don't know how to care for rabbits. You can get any color rug, just make sure it is cotton woven. I have a nice grey rug in Theo's playpen and I never have to wash it since he is litter trained. I do vacuum it off every week to get up any pieces of timothy hay. I also have smaller mats around the litter box so if he pees out of the litter box on accident I can easily clean it up. I have attached a picture of Theo's pen from a couple of months ago, I have changed several things up since then.


I’ve just rushed to get him out of there. I’m so worried now. What are the alternatives other than rugs? The one rug we have is in the wash but I’m not sure it’s cotton woven. I’m so stressed. Please tell me what else I can do, does he need a vet


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## Mariam+Theo (Feb 11, 2021)

No need to take him to the vet, he should be fine! You can use towels and blankets too if you do not have a rug.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

Mariam+Theo said:


> No need to take him to the vet, he should be fine! You can use towels and blankets too if you do not have a rug.


What do I put in his litter tray now?


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## KingBunny (Feb 11, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> What do I put in his litter tray now?


You can buy organic paper litters


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

Mariam+Theo said:


> No need to take him to the vet, he should be fine! You can use towels and blankets too if you do not have a rug.


How often will they need to be washed? What do I put in his litter tray now?


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

KingBunny said:


> You can buy organic paper litters


It’s nearly 8pm here, I can’t buy anything as of right now


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## KingBunny (Feb 11, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> It’s nearly 8pm here, I can’t buy anything as of right now


He'll be ok for the night. He won't die.


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## Apollo’s Slave (Feb 11, 2021)

I use wood pelleted litter, but as of now, i think you said you have a dog? If you have puppy pads you can use that. You could also just put hay in it, or kitchen roll it doesn’t matter too much though


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

KingBunny said:


> He'll be ok for the night. He won't die.


He’ll be okay in pine shavings that can cause respiratory problems for the night? I can’t use towels in his hutch as I use those for when he’s on my bed and he chews them. He would probably do the same for a blanket. What do I do?


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

Apollo’s Slave said:


> I use wood pelleted litter, but as of now, i think you said you have a dog? If you have puppy pads you can use that. You could also just put hay in it, or kitchen roll it doesn’t matter too much though


If I was to leave the pine shavings, would it matter? Would it need to be changed quickly or? I do have a dog but Moony here is quite a chewer, what if he chewed those items if I put them in there? Also, all I have is Timothy hay in terms of hay, would he eat that and then have no bedding left?? I’ve ordered a bed for him and it’s due to be delivered tomorrow... I actually can’t believe I put him at risk...
Is this litter the type you were talking about?


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## KingBunny (Feb 11, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> If I was to leave the pine shavings, would it matter? Would it need to be changed quickly or? I do have a dog but Moony here is quite a chewer, what if he chewed those items if I put them in there? Also, all I have is Timothy hay in terms of hay, would he eat that and then have no bedding left?? I’ve ordered a bed for him and it’s due to be delivered tomorrow... I actually can’t believe I put him at risk...


You can leave the shavings in just for tonight. They won't cause any problems in such a short while.
In fact they're perfectly safe to have in 24/7. I'm not sure what the problem is.


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## Mariam+Theo (Feb 11, 2021)

He will be fine in the pine shavings for now, but I suggest getting more towels tomorrow. It is okay if he chews the towels, just don't let him eat them. He sounds like he needs some chew toys. I suggest also getting some woven mats for him to shred.

In the litter box, use pine pellets. I buy these from Tractor Supply since they are super cheap and last forever. Follow the instructions on this link for litter training. You can put hay in the litter box for now.


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## KingBunny (Feb 11, 2021)

Hope this helps. Sometimes forums can go a bit ott with advice. No offense to anyone though.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

KingBunny said:


> You can leave the shavings in just for tonight. They won't cause any problems in such a short while.
> In fact they're perfectly safe to have in 24/7. I'm not sure what the problem is.


They’re pine shavings, according to @Mariam+Theo... I was unaware of this as the packaging doesn’t say, and I was directed to purchase the product. Not to be rude, but I’m not exactly keen on following your advice given what you suggested I feed my rabbit.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

KingBunny said:


> Hope this helps. Sometimes forums can go a bit ott with advice. No offense to anyone though.
> View attachment 53182


The pine shavings are all over the hutch though...


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## KingBunny (Feb 11, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> They’re pine shavings, according to @Mariam+Theo... I was unaware of this as the packaging doesn’t say, and I was directed to purchase the product. Not to be rude, but I’m not exactly keen on following your advice given what you suggested I feed my rabbit.


I'm sorry to have spent time trying to help you. 
I feel bad now.


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## Mariam+Theo (Feb 11, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> The pine shavings are all over the hutch though...


If you have a towel or blanket that he can have, go ahead and sweep the shavings all up and then vacuum up the leftover pieces so you can put the towel/blanket in the hutch. If you do not have a towel/blanket leave the shavings in the hutch until you have a towel/blanket for him.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

Mariam+Theo said:


> If you have a towel or blanket that he can have, go ahead and sweep the shavings all up and then vacuum up the leftover pieces so you can put the towel/blanket in the hutch. If you do not have a towel/blanket leave the shavings in the hutch until you have a towel/blanket for him.


I’m confused now as @KingBunny has shown a website saying they are not bad... are you positive that they’re pine shavings? The only reason I’m asking is because the packaging doesn’t say so. I will include a picture of the packaging.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

Are pillow cases ok? I also have cardboard and I can rip up some paper... I’m stressing so much, I’m not happy with him going back in there until I can figure out an alternative. He has some wooden chew toys that he likes, he just also likes the towels when he’s in my room
Also, the website that @Mariam+Theo linked says that nothing should be put outside of the litter box that is soft because rabbits love all things soft...


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## Mariam+Theo (Feb 11, 2021)

KingBunny said:


> Hope this helps. Sometimes forums can go a bit ott with advice. No offense to anyone though.
> View attachment 53182





Jennyrobson said:


> They’re pine shavings, according to @Mariam+Theo... I was unaware of this as the packaging doesn’t say, and I was directed to purchase the product. Not to be rude, but I’m not exactly keen on following your advice given what you suggested I feed my rabbit.





KingBunny said:


> I'm sorry to have spent time trying to help you.
> I feel bad now.


To clear the air, pine shavings for rabbits is a really debated issue between rabbit owners. Many breeders are ok with using pine shavings, but most pet rabbit owners believe that they are dangerous. I take the side with pet owners since Theo is a pet. That does not mean that I think breeders are completely wrong about their decisions. Everyone can choose to own their rabbit the way they want to own their rabbit. There are many links about pine shavings being safe and them being dangerous. I have added debatable reasons from each side so @Jennyrobson can decide if they would like to keep the shavings in the hutch or if they would like to remove them.

The Dangers of Softwood Shavings says, "There are two major concerns with the use of cedar and pineshavings as litter. The first is the documented alterations in the liver's specialized tools, called enzymes, that can alter your rabbit's ability to handle standard drugs that your vet will use in the treatment of your pet. The second is the relatively poorly characterized cancer risk. "

https://www.sani-care.com/wp-content/uploads/Cedarpineprob.pdf says, "Unfortunately these compounds have been implicated as a potential health risk, especially with regards to *respiratory problems* (asthma, inflammation, allergic responses) *and* changes in the liver."

Rasingrabbits.com says, "This is a fairly long page - so we want you to know up front that pine shavings are just fine for rabbit litter, the nest box, and bedding. Pine is completely safe, and especially if it is heat-treated or kiln-dried."




Jennyrobson said:


> I’m confused now as @KingBunny has shown a website saying they are not bad... are you positive that they’re pine shavings? The only reason I’m asking is because the packaging doesn’t say so. I will include a picture of the packaging.


I am 99% sure they are pine shavings because of the size and color. If they were not pine shavings they would be cedar shavings which would be worse because cedar shavings are highly dangerous to rabbits. They do not have the color of cedar shavings. 
Bunylady.com says "*Cedar* is the most commonly known type of wood that is *harmful to rabbits*. This is one of the types that should be kept away from *rabbits* completely. It contains high levels of phenols that can be inhaled by *rabbits* causing liver complications."


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

Mariam+Theo said:


> To clear the air, pine shavings for rabbits is a really debated issue between rabbit owners. Many breeders are ok with using pine shavings, but most pet rabbit owners believe that they are dangerous. I take the side with pet owners since Theo is a pet. That does not mean that I think breeders are completely wrong about their decisions. Everyone can choose to own their rabbit the way they want to own their rabbit. There are many links about pine shavings being safe and them being dangerous. I have added debatable reasons from each side so @Jennyrobson can decide if they would like to keep the shavings in the hutch or if they would like to remove them.
> 
> The Dangers of Softwood Shavings says, "There are two major concerns with the use of cedar and pineshavings as litter. The first is the documented alterations in the liver's specialized tools, called enzymes, that can alter your rabbit's ability to handle standard drugs that your vet will use in the treatment of your pet. The second is the relatively poorly characterized cancer risk. "
> 
> ...


I don’t want to take the risk of them being dangerous to him. Can I use pillow cases, cardboard, ripped up paper? I’m overwhelmed, I know you’re saying he’ll be fine but I will never forgive myself if he’s not fine after this


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## Mariam+Theo (Feb 11, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> Are pillow cases ok? I also have cardboard and I can rip up some paper... I’m stressing so much, I’m not happy with him going back in there until I can figure out an alternative. He has some wooden chew toys that he likes, he just also likes the towels when he’s in my room
> Also, the website that @Mariam+Theo linked says that nothing should be put outside of the litter box that is soft because rabbits love all things soft...





Jennyrobson said:


> I don’t want to take the risk of them being dangerous to him. Can I use pillow cases, cardboard, ripped up paper? I’m overwhelmed, I know you’re saying he’ll be fine but I will never forgive myself if he’s not fine after this


You can put pillowcases and/or cardboard in the cage because those are safe. Since you do not have a larger litter box or proper litter yet I think it is okay to leave soft things outside of the litter box for now. Once you begin litter training then all soft things will need to be removed from the hutch.

I'm so sorry this thread has been so confusing. Please know that he will be completely fine and do not beat yourself up because of this mistake! I had pine shavings in Theo's hutch for the first 4 months that I owned him and the vet said he is in perfect health, even though I made that mistake.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

Mariam+Theo said:


> You can put pillowcases and/or cardboard in the cage because those are safe. Since you do not have a larger litter box or proper litter yet I think it is okay to leave soft things outside of the litter box for now. Once you begin litter training then all soft things will need to be removed from the hutch.
> 
> I'm so sorry this thread has been so confusing. Please know that he will be completely fine and do not beat yourself up because of this mistake! I had pine shavings in Theo's hutch for the first 4 months that I owned him and the vet said he is in perfect health, even though I made that mistake.


I have this rug, is it ok? It’s not a problem. I just want him to be ok. I feel terrible. Does a rabbit need to be litter trained? I don’t mind washing this rug every day as I do that with my dog’s blankets as he has accidents often. If this isn’t ok I will put cardboard on the bottom of the hutch with pillow cases over it. What happens if he chews this rug now and again? He nibbles my towels for a bit and digs at them but then stops. If I put the rug or cardboard and pillow cases in, should I vacuum the pine shavings out? Is hay ok to be put in his litter tray long term also or will I need to get some other stuff? He does go to the bathroom in there quite well considering I’ve only had him 24 hours.


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## Mariam+Theo (Feb 11, 2021)

So step by step, vacuum the pine shavings out of the hutch. Then I would flip the rug upside down, so he won't chew the tall fluffy pieces of the rug (I don't know what they are called ) and put it in the hutch. It is okay if he nibbles and digs at the rug a little bit, just don't allow him to eat it! If he does eat a little bit, give him LOTS of hay. I would also give him a cardboard box with 2 entrances so he can play around in it. Rabbits love cardboard hideyhouses.

You can put hay in his litter box, that is actually the best place for the hay to be. He won't eat any soiled hay. Rabbits should be litter trained. It is easiest for the owner and best for the rabbit so they are not playing around in their mess. Litter training is very easy actually if the rabbit is spayed/neutered. If you follow the link I sent earlier it should tell you everything you need to know, but if you have any other questions on litter training feel free to dm me!


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

Mariam+Theo said:


> So step by step, vacuum the pine shavings out of the hutch. Then I would flip the rug upside down, so he won't chew the tall fluffy pieces of the rug (I don't know what they are called ) and put it in the hutch. It is okay if he nibbles and digs at the rug a little bit, just don't allow him to eat it! If he does eat a little bit, give him LOTS of hay. I would also give him a cardboard box with 2 entrances so he can play around in it. Rabbits love cardboard hideyhouses.
> 
> You can put hay in his litter box, that is actually the best place for the hay to be. He won't eat any soiled hay. Rabbits should be litter trained. It is easiest for the owner and best for the rabbit so they are not playing around in their mess. Litter training is very easy actually if the rabbit is spayed/neutered. If you follow the link I sent earlier it should tell you everything you need to know, but if you have any other questions on litter training feel free to dm me!


I will be leaving him to settle a bit tonight as I have disrupted him quite a lot. I’m sure he won’t eat any as he does stop chewing the towel after a while... lots of hay is always available to him so hopefully he will eat more of that tonight. I’ve ordered him a pet bed earlier that will come tomorrow for him. He has a bridge and things that he attempts to climb over but most of the time he just runs into it. I will try and cut out a bit of a cardboard box for him. He will definitely be being neutered (or spayed, might have a girl on my hands if a mistake has been made!) when he is of the right age. I’ll go and Hoover the shavings now and it will definitely be going in the bin! Good riddance to it I say! Can’t believe I was directed to buy it... Makes you think twice about advice of “pet experts” I suppose. Thanks so much for your advice, will definitely come back if I need anything!


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

Hi guys, so I’ve just put him into the hutch with the rug in... I put another rug folded up in his bedding area until his bed arrives tomorrow... he’s had a few nibbles at me today, nothing major, but a few nibbles nonetheless, is that normal? It’s usually when I’ve picked him up to put him in the pet carrier so I can clean the hutch or when I’ve had to lift him up to put a towel down on my bed. He also gave me a bit of a nip earlier upstairs when I didn’t lift him, and just now when I took him from the pet carrier. He loves being stroked still and everything. Is he ok? I’ve heard it’s a sign of affection... I’m not sure though. He will come over to me sometimes and have a sniff etc. He’s eating a pellet from my fingers one time and often eats hay from my fingers. I also need to move the hutch tomorrow and put it further upstairs as my downstairs is colder than my upstairs. Will this be detrimental to him? It’s a bit of a necessity especially as it’s snowing a lot here and is very cold, especially in the mornings... any feedback would be great, thanks!


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

KingBunny said:


> I'm sorry to have spent time trying to help you.
> I feel bad now.


I wasn’t trying to be mean about it. I just want what is best for Moony. I want him to be healthy. I apologise.


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## Blue eyes (Feb 11, 2021)

@Jennyrobson , could you please clarify? Where did this new rabbit come from? It appears you've only had it for 12 hours. I'm a bit confused because the one your were waiting for wasn't going to be ready for another month. But then you were looking at rescues. Yet this one seems too young to be a rescue. 

Also, I understood that you were going to be housing indoors? But the photos appear to be outdoors? 

It also sounds like there has been much disruption and changing going on with the housing for this bun in these short 12 hours. It is best, with a new rabbit, to put them in their new home and then leave them totally undisturbed for 48 hours. Do be careful about putting too much stress on the rabbit.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 11, 2021)

Blue eyes said:


> @Jennyrobson , could you please clarify? Where did this new rabbit come from? It appears you've only had it for 12 hours. I'm a bit confused because the one your were waiting for wasn't going to be ready for another month. But then you were looking at rescues. Yet this one seems too young to be a rescue.
> 
> Also, I understood that you were going to be housing indoors? But the photos appear to be outdoors?
> 
> It also sounds like there has been much disruption and changing going on with the housing for this bun in these short 12 hours. It is best, with a new rabbit, to put them in their new home and then leave them totally undisturbed for 48 hours. Do be careful about putting too much stress on the rabbit.


I’ve had him for over 24 hours. He’s from a registered breeder who was recommended to me. The one I was waiting for, I was let down on. The rabbit I was going to apply for wasn’t within my county so I was unable to collect him. I had a routine planned for him and I was then told that pine shavings were bad for him so I changed the bedding, to ensure his safety. That is the only thing I have changed. I plan to move him tomorrow and settle into a routine with him then as the area he is in now has me a bit worried in terms of the temperature of my house. I’ve done everything to ensure his safety, I contacted a vet to enquire about his stools just to ensure that he was ok. I am feeding him on some good food and have limited his pellets per the advice of people on this forum. He is housed indoors. I will show proof of this. He has never been housed outdoors and will never be put outdoors. I can assure you that he is indoors. I don’t see how the images appear to be outdoors... whenever I have taken a picture of him, he has been indoors, whenever I have taken a picture of his food, it has been indoors... the only time he was remotely outside was when I brought him into my home in a pet carrier. If there appears to have been disruption, I can assure you that I have changed things that I have been told would put him at risk. I did not wish to risk my rabbit’s health. That is why I made the change, one time, to change his bedding. That is it. I will be moving him tomorrow to an area more suitable in terms of weather as we are having some winter weather here.
*Edit - if you have any advice, that would be great as I am always wanting to learn what is good what is bad etc. I have only changed things to ensure his safety per what I’ve been informed on this forum, that is it. Hopefully you see that, as well as the fact he is housed indoors.


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## Blue eyes (Feb 11, 2021)

Thank you for clarifying. Allow me to try to put your mind at ease and offer some further suggestions. The reason for needing to know whether the rabbit is indoors or outdoors is because that would change the recommendations for what to put inside the hutch. There isn't anything wrong with housing rabbits outdoors with a proper setup, so it was no judgement against you. The photos you posted show a hutch that is typically considered an outdoor hutch. That is why I thought perhaps the bun was outdoors on a porch or such. 

With an indoor hutch, it isn't necessary to have loose bedding on the floor of the cage. It confuses bunny as to where to potty and it simply makes more work for you. Shavings tend to stick to bunny fur and get tracked everywhere. If the shavings are cedar (yours weren't), they are toxic. If the shavings are pine _and _kiln-dried, they are perfectly safe. If they are _not_ kiln-dried, then they can cause respiratory issues IF the bunny is exposed to them for many months or years. You've already removed them, which is fine, but thought you'd like to know. 

As mentioned earlier, it is recommended to not disturb a new rabbit for 48 hours. In the eyes of a rabbit, they are suddenly in a totally new and strange place. It has all new sights, all new sounds, and all new odors. Those alone are frightening, but to add in any interaction from the human just increases that stress. As humans, we may not consider this. Your wrote:


Jennyrobson said:


> I’ve picked him up to put him in the pet carrier so I can clean the hutch or when I’ve had to lift him up to put a towel down on my bed. He also gave me a bit of a nip earlier upstairs when I didn’t lift him, and just now when I took him from the pet carrier. He loves being stroked still and everything. He’s eating a pellet from my fingers one time and often eats hay from my fingers.


I understand you had to move him to empty the shavings. The other under-lined actions are things best avoided during the first 48 hours (minimum). What is meant for the 48 hour period is to not pick-up, not pet, not touch, not hand-feed, not take out of cage -- totally hands off. The nip he gave is proof of that. So my prior post's caution was a response to the above quote. I appreciate that you state you want what's best for your bunny, so it is with that in mind that I offered that caution. 

Regarding the coldness, rabbits do very well in temperatures cooler than we humans like. It is doubtful that any indoor temperature that you are able to live in would be too cold for a rabbit. It may be best to temporarily keep him where he is for now (so as not to stress him further) while you take a bit more time to fully prepare the upstairs space you hoped to switch him to. 

As for what to put on the cage floor, that will change as he grows. During litter training, any loose bedding or blankets or rugs can confuse bunny. They like to potty on soft things. So by making the litter box the softest spot (litter with hay on top), it encourages bunny to potty in the box. Any beds or blankets may get peed on during training. For this reason, it's best to keep the floor bare until he's trained. 

Beds, towels, fleece, rugs, mats, etc -- any of these are potential options to put on the cage floor once he's trained. It will be a matter of experimenting because what is fine for one rabbit may not work with another. If bunny chews and ingests anything, then that should be removed. As hormones approach, he may start chewing everything, but that can settle back down after neutering. So the rule of thumb is, if he chews and ingests it, don't use it. 

I'm not sure what your plans are for the hutch (upstairs, downstairs) but you'll want to consider where his exercise area will be. Ideally, you should be able to just open his hutch door to allow him out to play in a bunny-proofed area. Knowing that may help you decide where to keep the hutch. You don't want to have to pull him out of the hutch and take him to another area. They like to be able to have access back to their hutch at all times. 

I'll stop there so as not to overwhelm you with topics!


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 12, 2021)

Blue eyes said:


> Thank you for clarifying. Allow me to try to put your mind at ease and offer some further suggestions. The reason for needing to know whether the rabbit is indoors or outdoors is because that would change the recommendations for what to put inside the hutch. There isn't anything wrong with housing rabbits outdoors with a proper setup, so it was no judgement against you. The photos you posted show a hutch that is typically considered an outdoor hutch. That is why I thought perhaps the bun was outdoors on a porch or such.
> 
> With an indoor hutch, it isn't necessary to have loose bedding on the floor of the cage. It confuses bunny as to where to potty and it simply makes more work for you. Shavings tend to stick to bunny fur and get tracked everywhere. If the shavings are cedar (yours weren't), they are toxic. If the shavings are pine _and _kiln-dried, they are perfectly safe. If they are _not_ kiln-dried, then they can cause respiratory issues IF the bunny is exposed to them for many months or years. You've already removed them, which is fine, but thought you'd like to know.
> 
> ...


I’m debating getting him a new hutch as I’ve realised it’s an outdoor one now... if I leave him alone today and tomorrow, will he be ok? If I just feed him and everything? I feel so bad now about the disruption but I’ve done it to attempt to ensure his safety... I know you said it’s best for the floor of the hutch to be bare but the current hutch has wood, will he be ok on that? I won’t take out the rug and everything now until the 48hr period has passed. I’ve ordered him a bed but I’m unsure of whether or not to put that in there now because he’s still a baby and pees/poops everywhere. I appreciate that there’s been disruption but he will be left alone today, I will clean his hutch tomorrow instead of today if suitable. I do believe that a change of hutch is best for him as this one does have a run area attached and is higher up which will enable me to clean him easily. It will also give him better access once he is moved upstairs as he will be able to just run back in and go up the ramp into his bed. When do you suggest I get it? I’ll let him settle now and I was hoping to purchase it on Monday... would that be adequate? I’ve fed him this morning and everything and have left him now.


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## Blue eyes (Feb 12, 2021)

Leaving him alone today and tomorrow is a good idea. Just keep his hay, water & food pellets supplied as needed. Leaving the rug in there for now is fine provided he doesn't try eating it. He can stay in there undisturbed for the whole weekend and be just fine. That gives you the weekend to figure out what you want to do for housing.

The pink hutch in the photo is quite small. Do you have an exercise pen? If you were planning on having an exercise pen set up around the pink hutch and have the hutch doors open 24/7, then that would be ok. _Without an attached exercise area,_ the hutch is too small. 

An exercise pen is a simple way to provide more permanent space. Or you could go fancier...

If you or someone you know is handy, then something similar to this could be added to whatever hutch you use:



Here are a couple more ideas just to get you thinking about possibilities....






Your other option is to free-roam him once he's neutered and litter trained. That's when the area needs to be bunny-proofed. The exercise pen should be used even if you intend to eventually free-roam. 

The next photo shows how a hutch is surrounded by an ex- pen to create an exercise area. Once the buns got used to the exercise area, the pen was removed and they were able to roam the rest of that room. 

As you can see, the hutch below is actually larger than the pink one, but would still be too small by itself. Once the pen was removed, the door to this cage was left open all day, every day, and only closed at night.


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## Blue eyes (Feb 12, 2021)

Just to help guide your thinking on hutches, the following link is a good one that shows...

what *NOT* TO GET (It is the "Wall of Shame")

70+ Rabbit Housing - Wall of SHAME! ideas | rabbit, rabbit hutches, rabbit cages


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 12, 2021)

Blue eyes said:


> Leaving him alone today and tomorrow is a good idea. Just keep his hay, water & food pellets supplied as needed. Leaving the rug in there for now is fine provided he doesn't try eating it. He can stay in there undisturbed for the whole weekend and be just fine. That gives you the weekend to figure out what you want to do for housing.
> 
> The pink hutch in the photo is quite small. Do you have an exercise pen? If you were planning on having an exercise pen set up around the pink hutch and have the hutch doors open 24/7, then that would be ok. _Without an attached exercise area,_ the hutch is too small.
> 
> ...


I will be looking into getting a pen for him soon. He will be having a run built for him too for exercise, outdoors. I remember the vet telling me he shouldn’t be out right now due to the weather etc and the fact he’s not yet vaccinated so the run will come at a later date. He will be having a pen put in for him however, in our living room where the most space is I’m thinking. I won’t be doing this until the 48hr period has passed. I did purchase the hut for him but I’ll also get a pen so he can run around once he’s settled more. He will be getting neutered ASAP (or spayed in the case of him being a girl) so that will make everything easier. Thanks for all the advice. I’m currently on bed rest as I dislocated my knee earlier today so I may not be as active on the thread. Thanks again!


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## Blue eyes (Feb 12, 2021)

Sorry to hear about your knee! If you are taking it easy (staying off your feet), that gives you more time to peruse through links and care sites! 

It is perfectly fine for indoor rabbits to remain indoors. Occasionally taking them out may be ok (has its own risks) but won't be the primary exercise for an indoor rabbit. Bear in mind that you really don't want to have the hutch in one place and the exercise space in another. Bun should be able to have constant access back to his hutch even during exercise times. That's why it's important to think carefully about the ideal place to put the hutch. It should be in the same space where he'll be allowed to run around indoors. 

The following page addresses those risks associated with bringing your rabbit outdoors. Bear in mind that the site is US based, so the warning about the recent outbreak of RHVD2 refers to here in the US. Your rabbit in the UK will be vaccinated (as you said) but that doesn't make them immune from the disease. It can increase their survival, however, if they do get it from going outdoors.








Bringing Outside?


[ Tablet users, try the "web" version by clicking on "web" at the bottom of this page for a better, user-friendly format . ]



rabbitsindoors.weebly.com


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 12, 2021)

Blue eyes said:


> Sorry to hear about your knee! If you are taking it easy (staying off your feet), that gives you more time to peruse through links and care sites!
> 
> It is perfectly fine for indoor rabbits to remain indoors. Occasionally taking them out may be ok (has its own risks) but won't be the primary exercise for an indoor rabbit. Bear in mind that you really don't want to have the hutch in one place and the exercise space in another. Bun should be able to have constant access back to his hutch even during exercise times. That's why it's important to think carefully about the ideal place to put the hutch. It should be in the same space where he'll be allowed to run around indoors.
> 
> ...


I’ve just been trying to nap off the pain mostly, but I will be looking at some sites when the pain has eased a bit. 
I’m going to measure the new hutch when it arrives, and see if it will fit in my living room. If so, which I think it will, he can have a pen put around that. Thanks again for all the advice!


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 13, 2021)

Hi guys! UPDATE ON MOONY.
Fed him this morning, let him be, then opened the hutch door to see if he wanted to explore, sat away and completely ignored him, he came out eventually. I then ignored him again until he came over and nudged my hand, he also licked my hand a bit, I stroked him and then he hopped back in his hutch. I’ve shut the cage now to give him some time to sort of reflect on that interaction because I don’t want to push it. He was then jumping around his cage sort of, should I be concerned? Did I push it? He’s stopped doing it now but it was sort of like a hop/big jump, he was jumping into the litter tray, out of the litter tray, to his bedding area, everywhere around the hutch basically. Any help is welcome, thanks.


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## Mariam+Theo (Feb 13, 2021)

Sounds like he was binkying! It's what they do when they are happy. Next time, let him out so he can have more space to run around.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 13, 2021)

Mariam+Theo said:


> Sounds like he was binkying! It's what they do when they are happy. Next time, let him out so he can have more space to run around.


He did come out, he sniffed around and explored and then came over to me which is when I interacted with him. He hopped back in his hutch for a while and I shut the door because I didn’t want to push it... I might clean him tomorrow if he’s happy now as the hutch does really need a clean. I’ve only been going in there to top up his food and water. Will cleaning him tomorrow be ok? Also if I do, how long does he need to be out of the hutch? I’ve bought a hutch cleaner and will take everything out and clean the floor etc then put his rug in there again. He can explore whilst I’m cleaning, but I don’t want to push anything with him again, it’s just that it does need to be cleaned soon.


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## KingBunny (Feb 13, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> He did come out, he sniffed around and explored and then came over to me which is when I interacted with him. He hopped back in his hutch for a while and I shut the door because I didn’t want to push it... I might clean him tomorrow if he’s happy now as the hutch does really need a clean. I’ve only been going in there to top up his food and water. Will cleaning him tomorrow be ok? Also if I do, how long does he need to be out of the hutch? I’ve bought a hutch cleaner and will take everything out and clean the floor etc then put his rug in there again. He can explore whilst I’m cleaning, but I don’t want to push anything with him again, it’s just that it does need to be cleaned soon.


The more time out the hutch (prison cell) the better. No such thing as pushing it with Rabbits. Well, at least not with free time out the hutch.
Leave the door open with feed and water available.
I hope this doesn't sound rude, but I think you're stressing too much. Keeping rabbits is simple, you may be over complicating it. 
Hutch needs a clean once a week, if you want to to it more often then that's fine.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 13, 2021)

KingBunny said:


> The more time out the hutch (prison cell) the better. No such thing as pushing it with Rabbits. Well, at least not with free time out the hutch.
> Leave the door open with feed and water available.
> I hope this doesn't sound rude, but I think you're stressing too much. Keeping rabbits is simple, you may be over complicating it.
> Hutch needs a clean once a week, if you want to to it more often then that's fine.


This clean will be the first clean of the week. The removal of the shavings was just that, it wasn’t a clean. I’m trying to find out when he can go back in the hutch after I clean it.


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## KingBunny (Feb 13, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> This clean will be the first clean of the week. The removal of the shavings was just that, it wasn’t a clean. I’m trying to find out when he can go back in the hutch after I clean it.


If you're using a pet safe antibacterial spray then just allow any moisture to dry before he goes back. You don't have to but that's just my opinion


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 20, 2021)

Hey guys, an update on Moony. He’s doing great, very happy with the new hutch, having a run around in the space we’ve currently got for him. Its a bit like a free roam right now of one room, (we’re getting a dog pen but deliveries are delayed due to COVID in my area). However, when I sit with him, or just sit in a neutral space, he gives a little nibble. Is that normal? I’ve heard it could be because he’s not neutered or that he wants something or attention, that it’s not always got aggressive reasons behind it. He flops down when I’m near him and he’ll let me pet him etc so I don’t think he’s uncomfortable around me. What could it be?


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## KingBunny (Feb 20, 2021)

__





what does it mean when they nibble on your clothes?


Piksi always nibbles at my clothes when we are hanging out. he smells around and nibbles my clothes and sometimes he starts digging at it. he also kinda pushes me with his nose. very wierd. i also noticed that he specially nibbles me when he is behind me. well mostly when he is behind me...




www.rabbitsonline.net


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 20, 2021)

KingBunny said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That’s exactly what he does! He nudges my hand with his nose, sniffs around and then nibbles once but I do feel it every time. Is he trying to be friendly or is be unhappy with something?


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## Hannahsigurdson (Feb 20, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> Hi,
> In a few weeks I will be collecting a Mini Lop and I am hoping that when the genders are revealed, that I will be getting a male. If I get a male, will he need to be neutered? He will be an only rabbit. If the gender is female I will be getting her spayed but I really am hoping for a male. Any advice is welcome, thanks.


I would recommend neutering a male bunny. They can show signs of aggression and dominance if you don’t. This can lead to marking their territory and that can be a hard habit to break. Also leaving trails of poops around. I know it is also better for their health as well and can increase their lifespan.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 20, 2021)

Hannahsigurdson said:


> I would recommend neutering a male bunny. They can show signs of aggression and dominance if you don’t. This can lead to marking their territory and that can be a hard habit to break. Also leaving trails of poops around. I know it is also better for their health as well and can increase their lifespan.
> 
> I created a bunnies tips and tricks group called Buns, Bunnos and Wabbits Facebook! I would consider myself very knowledgeable about bunnies. I have done a ton of research and I have taken courses. This group will be answering any posted questions, hot topics, or tips! Feel free to join if interested!
> www.facebook.com/groups/bunsbunnosandwabbits/


Hi, I’ve already contacted a vet regarding him being neutered, it’ll definitely be done but I just wondered why he was giving little nibbles now. He doesn’t do them a lot, just sometimes. He flops and binkys etc so he is happy, I hope. I’ve been told that he can be neutered at 4-5 months of age, 4 being the earliest and 6 being the latest (ideally). I will look into registering him soon but due to the pandemic, we’re unable to at the minute as the vets would need to see him for him to be registered, which, unless I have a health concern, isn’t essential. Thank you for your comment!


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## Hannahsigurdson (Feb 20, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> Hi, I’ve already contacted a vet regarding him being neutered, it’ll definitely be done but I just wondered why he was giving little nibbles now. He doesn’t do them a lot, just sometimes. He flops and binkys etc so he is happy, I hope. I’ve been told that he can be neutered at 4-5 months of age, 4 being the earliest and 6 being the latest (ideally). I will look into registering him soon but due to the pandemic, we’re unable to at the minute as the vets would need to see him for him to be registered, which, unless I have a health concern, isn’t essential. Thank you for your comment!



Yeah it’s so hard right now scheduling appointments...... I hope you can get one at the right time! He sounds like a happy bunny to me!


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## TreasuredFriend (Feb 21, 2021)

Rabbit Body Language


You can learn to speak and understand Rabbit language.



language.rabbitspeak.com


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## TreasuredFriend (Feb 21, 2021)

Here's an article I transferred from a Rescue about spay, also applies to spay/neuter. 

*East Coast Rabbit Rescue*

*February 19 at 1:10 PM* · 

Warning graphic image!
As you may recall approximately 63 rabbits and 177 guinea pigs were recently rescued from a hoarder. Our thanks to Dylan who learned about this terrible situation and set in motion the rescue. If these poor animals were forced to live in that hell for another week or so, many of them would have not survived.

As it was, many of the rescued rabbits and guinea pigs had severe medical conditions including mites, syphilis, abscess and cancer. One female rabbit had a huge lump around her nipples (see attached pictures). While we had hoped that the lump was an abscess, unfortunately the biopsy result came back and the lump was identified as a malignant tumor.

Mammary carcinoma in rabbits is often concurrently associated with uterine adenocarcinoma. This type of tumor is one of the most common forms of cancer in rabbits, occurring in up to 60% percent of female rabbits over 3-4 years old.

Unneutered male rabbits may develop testicular cancer as young as 2-3 years old.

As a rabbit lover, we want to emphasize the importance of spaying and neutering your rabbit. First and foremost, it will prevent pregnancy. Every single day thousands of unwanted rabbits are killed in shelters, and an untold number of rabbits are dumped on the street and eventually killed by cars or predators. This needless suffering could be easily reduced by spaying or neutering your pet. Secondarily, a spayed/neutered rabbit will generally live a longer and healthier life. The risk of cancer and urinary tract infections are greatly reduced. Third, a fixed rabbit will be calmer, easier to litter box train and their destructive habits will tend to diminish. In addition, spayed/neutered rabbits are easier to bond because they are calmer.
Despite the significant benefits of sterilizing your rabbit, some people have expressed their concerns about the expense and safety of the procedure. Nowadays, neutering/spaying rabbits has become a safe procedure IF performed by veterinarian who has experience with rabbits. Of course there is a small risk to surgery, but generally speaking the mortality risk due to anesthesia runs around 1%. Thus the best thing to do is contact a rabbit rescue to get referrals concerning qualified/low cost Vets to use. By using such Vets the procedure will be safer and generally much less expensive.

In conclusion, we highly recommend spaying and neutering your rabbit. Intuitively doing the right thing initially will make your rabbit experience a better one. It will also save you money in the long run and it will ultimately prolong the health and life of your pet.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 24, 2021)

Hi guys, Moony is doing great... but I’ve noticed that a few of his poops are smaller than the others. He is still drinking and eating, as well as hopping around and interacting as normal. The first picture is a picture of his poops from earlier today, the second is his poops right now and the last two are what I feed him


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## Diane R (Feb 25, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> Hi guys, Moony is doing great... but I’ve noticed that a few of his poops are smaller than the others. He is still drinking and eating, as well as hopping around and interacting as normal. The first picture is a picture of his poops from earlier today, the second is his poops right now and the last two are what I feed him


Poop looks very good, don't worry.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 25, 2021)

Diane R said:


> Poop looks very good, don't worry.


Thanks so much! Was starting to get worried as bun mums do...


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## LadyGrey (Feb 25, 2021)

Intact bucks are musky smelling, that's the only reason you need to fix them. It smells like pungent moldy coffee. People who own them get accustomed to the smell but people who come into your home will notice.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 25, 2021)

LadyGrey said:


> Intact bucks are musky smelling, that's the only reason you need to fix them. It smells like pungent moldy coffee. People who own them get accustomed to the smell but people who come into your home will notice.


I don’t really notice a smell with Moony apart from the smell of his hay... I don’t want him to develop aggression as his hormones hit or become dominant, so I will be neutering him. Research and other people have also told me it prolongs the lifespan and I want him to be around for as long as possible. He will be neutered at around 5 months


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## TreasuredFriend (Feb 25, 2021)

Our unneutered males sprayed horrendously and were territorial wrt humping et al. So glad that Veterinary Medicine has progressed and allows the safe alteration (hormone calming procedure) of our beloved companions. 

It was never fun getting sprayed by our males' jet hoses as they hopped around. I can detect obnoxious odors pretty well. Whether inside our home, or whether I sniff a skunk or other odor outdoors. 

'Tis comforting you want to be around Moony for as long as possible. One of our Flemish Giant fosters was adopted to a responsible couple, and we still miss him to this day. He had a great personality and was so affectionate. But, he saturated and used his emission hose all the time prior to neuter with our rabbit-savvy DVM.


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## Jennyrobson (Feb 25, 2021)

TreasuredFriend said:


> Our unneutered males sprayed horrendously and were territorial wrt humping et al. So glad that Veterinary Medicine has progressed and allows the safe alteration (hormone calming procedure) of our beloved companions.
> 
> It was never fun getting sprayed by our males' jet hoses as they hopped around. I can detect obnoxious odors pretty well. Whether inside our home, or whether I sniff a skunk or other odor outdoors.
> 
> 'Tis comforting you want to be around Moony for as long as possible. One of our Flemish Giant fosters was adopted to a responsible couple, and we still miss him to this day. He had a great personality and was so affectionate. But, he saturated and used his emission hose all the time prior to neuter with our rabbit-savvy DVM.


So far I haven’t noticed any spraying, just some pees in his litter tray and a few other pees around his area. Can’t wait for him to be neutered though as I’m sure litter training him in regard to his poops will become easier. But also, for the health benefits, obviously. Hoping for a long time with my bunny son


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## Jennyrobson (Mar 1, 2021)

Some more pictures of Moony as he helped me with working from home and had some lovings from mum


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## Madelyn L. (Mar 1, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> Some more pictures of Moony as he helped me with working from home and had some lovings from mum View attachment 53599
> View attachment 53595
> View attachment 53596
> View attachment 53597
> ...


Awwwww he’s so cute!


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## Jennyrobson (Mar 1, 2021)

Madelyn L. said:


> Awwwww he’s so cute!


Thank you!


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## Jennyrobson (Mar 1, 2021)

Also guys, should I brush his feet? I heard that you’re meant to but he’s not very fluffy on his feet, at least I don’t think he is. I did try a little but he hates it, he was trying to get away which made me feel awful. The fur is slightly tangled, but not massively. He’s a mini lop x mini lion lop so not very very very fluffy I wouldn’t say. I don’t think he needs them brushed but I’m not an expert so. I brush the rest of him fine and he’s okay with that but I’m not sure about his feet. I really don’t want to try and brush them again as I’m afraid he’ll injure himself.


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## FuzzyWabbit (Mar 1, 2021)

I want to neuter but costs too much


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## HollandlopWinslow (Mar 1, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> That’s exactly what he does! He nudges my hand with his nose, sniffs around and then nibbles once but I do feel it every time. Is he trying to be friendly or is be unhappy with something?


It means they are bonding/bonded with you. Bonded bunnies do this to groom or play with one another. It is literally like a love bite. As long as it is a little nibble and not a hard bite but I’d trust you’d know the difference as bites can be painful.


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## Diane R (Mar 2, 2021)

Jennyrobson said:


> Also guys, should I brush his feet? I heard that you’re meant to but he’s not very fluffy on his feet, at least I don’t think he is. I did try a little but he hates it, he was trying to get away which made me feel awful. The fur is slightly tangled, but not massively. He’s a mini lop x mini lion lop so not very very very fluffy I wouldn’t say. I don’t think he needs them brushed but I’m not an expert so. I brush the rest of him fine and he’s okay with that but I’m not sure about his feet. I really don’t want to try and brush them again as I’m afraid he’ll injure himself.


You're doing great if he lets you brush his back and sides. Don't try to brush the feet. They need all the padding there, helps to prevent sore hocks.


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