# Rabbits in Australia need your help!



## Eve (Feb 17, 2008)

Hi everyone, 

An Australian university in Melbourne is currently conducting unnecessary experiments on rabbits. If you could kindly spare a moment to send a pre-written email to voice your dissaproval, you could help save these bunnies lives. 

It does not matter if you are from a different country, if you do not agree with such testing, your help would be very much appreciated. 


Visit the Animal Liberation webpage to read more about the experiments (*WARNING*- Graphic picture may upset some users so please do not open the link if you feel this will be upsettingfor you) http://www.alv.org.au/storyarchive/0802monash/monashrabbits.php 

Ifyou would like to help, please click thebutton on the right hand side of the webpage that says "click here to open a prewritten email".

Thank you all in advance :hug:

Eve


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## Marietta (Feb 17, 2008)

I sent the e-mail. The photo on the site was appalling. I didn't have the courage to see the video or any more photos. 

*PLEASE *everybody, sign and e-mail this protest!

Marietta


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## cheryl (Feb 17, 2008)

I had already heard about this,and there is also a video,i haven't watched it as i was told it's very graphic and i won't watch it.

Cheryl


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## TreasuredFriend (Feb 18, 2008)

This is too horrible for words. I will respond. Hopefully others will join in to petition for those rabbits.


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## Eve (Feb 18, 2008)

Thank you so much to everybody who has taken the time to send an email. :hearts


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## Mikoli (Feb 18, 2008)

Oh my god.
And this is happening in my city.
I'm horrified.
I'm not going to sleep at all tonight.

Will send an email ASAP. The senseless killing of unprotected animals is not a light matter. They are unable to defend themselves, so we have to do it for them. Please, please email.


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## pamnock (Feb 18, 2008)

You may want to do some investigating into the terroristic and criminal activities of the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) before spreading their propaganda on Rabbits Online.

Quote from FBI website _"The ALF is considered a terrorist group, whose purpose is to bring about social and political change through the use of force and violence."_

http://www.fbi.gov/congress/congress02/jarboe021202.htm

ALF is more of a terroristic threat to us and our freedom than any foreign terrorist group. They rely of violence and shock factor as their weapons of control.

I feel very strongly that these types of organizations should not be promoted on our forum.

Pam


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## Eve (Feb 18, 2008)

Hi Pam, 

I was under the impression that the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) in the USA and Animal Liberation Victoria (ALV) in Australiaare two completely unrelated groups. 

Animal Liberation Victoria has only recently been created in 2007 by Monash University students who were upset by what was happening in their university. I also know a couple of the people who have helped in the creation of this campaign (members of Rescue Rabbit Australia) who are in no way affiliated with the USA group which you have mentioned. 

These rabbit experiments at the university have also recently received negative attention from the media in Australia, soI do not think it is merely propaganda generated by the Animal Liberation Victoria group. 

Click here to view recently news article about the recent rabbit experiments:

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/rabbitkill-research-may-breach-cruelty-law/2008/02/02/1201801098905.html


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## pamnock (Feb 18, 2008)

*Eve wrote: *


> Hi Pam,
> 
> I was under the impression that the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) in the USA and Animal Liberation Victoria (ALV) in Australiaare two completely unrelated groups.



Nope - they both operate using many of the same illegal, terroristic tactics.

Pam


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## Eve (Feb 18, 2008)

I am a bit confused asI have never previously heard of the USA organization you have mentioned, could you please clarify how they and the Australian group I have mentioned are affiliated?

The ALV is run by students and I have no knowledge of any terrorist or violent activities they have taken part in. The only action they have taken part in was establishing an email petition, giving people the opportunity to send letters to the university regarding the animal experiments. 

The code of practice here states that live animals cannot be used for teaching purposes, especially when there are other possible alternatives. The main issue being addressed by the group and the media in Australia is that the experimentsmay have been inbreach of the code of practise.


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## pamnock (Feb 18, 2008)

Like most animal liberation groups, ALV has been involved in illegal activities as they strive to liberate animals from human ownership, often at the risk of both humans and animals.

There have been individuals who fear for their safety due to ALV threats, and have had to hire body guards and install security to protect themselves.



Pam


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## Eve (Feb 18, 2008)

I have not heard about any illegal activitiesperformed bythis group. 

Just to clarify, the intention of my post was not to promote this or any other particular group, but to raise awareness regarding the Monash University experiments issue, which has recently recieved negative attention in Australian news (if you have read the news link which I have previously posted). 

My link to the ALV website was posted as it containeda petitionfor peoplewho wishedto write an email to the university, if they wantedtoexpress their disagreement with the animal experiments. 

If you find the ALVcampaignoffensive, perhaps it would be more appropriate to change the link in my first post to the news sources which have recently written about the issue?


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## Orchid (Feb 18, 2008)

It is more my nature to stay out of discussions of this nature, for I find that generally there is no way to win. People feel how they do and that is usually the end of it.
Yet this is most bothersome to me.

I was lucky enough to go to school for a short time for Vet Sci...where I was indeed studying to become a licensed tech. During my first semester we did preform rat necropsy's. (fyi - think autopsy but for animals) This, one could say would be "necessary" for our learning and yet we had the option to ..opt out and it would not be held against us. Also, the rats were not alive and though I do not recall how they were killed it was done in such a way that when we were done, the remaining parts went to a wildlife rehab, so that not only did we learn, but they did not die so much in vain. They were fed to birds.
It still may sound cruel to a degree and I will concede it was not my most favorite thing to do, but I did indeed take part.
I felt that learning for what I wanted to do...something that was not provided on DVD and would benefit animals hopefully in my future...was worth it.

I do not ever agree with violence or the nature of those that would seek to find a means to achieve their ends with it. I have much love and compassion for animals, but never over a human life, even when the animal is preferred over one. I do not agree nor would I support a group that would use such tactics.

This is where my problem here in lies. 
To stay silent and allow animals to suffer without cause or mercy because I disagree with tactics of an extreme group...would not sit well on my soul.
To see that students are a willing part of such tests...disturbs even further my hope for humanity and all I have seen lost. What I personally feel is lacking in our society today.

For someone like me....I would need to find out the info on my own and research it to see the validity of it and than take steps on my own to show my outrage. I would not allow someone to personally tube feed me their opinion and just run with...nor would I stay silent because of my personal dislike of one or many groups that seek the wrong means to the right end.

Whether or not this belongs in a thread here...it is here. The knowledge is nice to have and gives me now a chance to look into something I was unaware of. Watching that video certainly was unsettling...and some of you may not understand this, but what I found most unsettling were the fact the students themselves were a part in something that should have seemed very inhumane and at least morally wrong.

It does not say much for humanity. That is for sure.

I have a personal saying...By doing nothing, you condone the actions of others.
I guess for me...staying silent is not really an option, when I have a very strong opinion on something, but I will find my own way to do it and find out as much of the truth as possible before I go ahead. Now a days there is too much foof and fluff all out over the web with horrible stories I see people outrage over and yet if you did a little digging you would find it is BS or a hoax most times. Actually, every thing I have seen to date go out in blogs, bulletin and whatnots, has indeed either been out dated (by many many years) or just total bs. I am curious to see what I can dig up on this.


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## Orchid (Feb 19, 2008)

and because I forgot to say it...
My opinion is just that, my opinion and was not meant in any way to upset, disagree or start a debate about what is right or wrong with anything...
One could say I just felt compelled to reply.


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## Orchid (Feb 19, 2008)

A bit of history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbits_in_Australia

http://www.science.org.au/nova/001/001box02.htm


Something really horrifying:

http://www.eniar.org/stolengenerations.html

and yet out of all the terms I have used thus far and as strange as some of the actual rabbit abuse news I have found...I have found nothing else as of yet about this college issue with AU. I take that back...Under the right wording...a list did indeed pop up. First was the you tube video link, next is the alv which was already provided to use early in this thread...
Next...from the college....but I think having the history of rabbit and AU here is important..but again that is my personal opinion:

http://vlab.infotech.monash.edu.au/simulations/non-linear/fox-rabbit/

and there was this....

http://www.physics.monash.edu.au/staff/kitchen.html

and finally I did indeed find this...

http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...ach-cruelty-law/2008/02/02/1201801098905.html

and there was this, but it was taken from the link above:

http://www.animalsaustralia.org/media/in_the_news.php?article=76

and this, though again it is from the same article:

http://www.paws.org.au/pages/news/item.html?id=116

and now this is where I will leave the topic alone, do what I think I should and leave it up to others, to do what they think..they should or should not do.

Best to all...


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## pamnock (Feb 19, 2008)

I am pro animal "welfare", butbelieve that animal care should be regulated and enforced through proper legal channels.

Animal Liberators believe in animal "rights", and desire to liberate animals from human ownership, even if they need to break the law to do it. ALV has made the news, including covering the arrests of ALV members. 

Vigilantes can be very dangerous. Their belief system does not give them the right to take the law into their own hands. 

Animal rights activists don't stop short of harming humans, they also will kill animals (they want to liberate them, even if it means killing them). You'll note they also don't hesitate to use animals themselves - if they feel it benefits their purpose. What animal wants to do a photoshoot with a naked human? You can imagine that the animal is most likely stressed, fearful, tired and certainly wants to be "liberated" from that experience!





Pam


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## Pipp (Feb 19, 2008)

Orchid, what an awesome. thoughtfulpost.

This isn't a news story,so I'm moving it into Rescue, tho not sure itbelongs there, either, I'll be asking the other Mods. 

And Pam, westay away from chat about rabbit 'production' and extremeactivism, this thread has gravitated to the latter... So... :shame

I'm not sure how far we want to go re: Lab rabbits discussion, but I don't see a problem with that. Just agree to disagree and move on when appropriate, thanks. 



sas eace


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## pamnock (Feb 19, 2008)

Because this board has had the policy in the past to NOT lend its support to extreme activism groups is precisely why I am against threads on this forum that support their activities. (Encouraging members to visit ARAwebsites and participate in their campaigns.)

I'm confused about your reference to rabbit "production" Pip? This board was originally started by a meat rabbit breeder and has always supported the participation of breeders. But, I don't think that anything to do with rabbit production was mentioned in this thread.

There have been a number of inciting posts in the "news" forum that have concerned me. I don't think it belongs here.

It was never the policy of theboard previously to promote animal rights and support the tactics of animal liberators- is this changing?

Pam


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## Pipp (Feb 19, 2008)

Yeah, tough call.

(And I'm telling a Sr. Mod the policy is not to discuss extremes on eitherend of the scale?) :biggrin2:

There's a fine line between lobbying for the welfare of rabbits via petitions, and promoting AR, though.RO is a powerfullobby group, when we pick our own 'battles'. We'll need a policy about outside petitions. We'vepromoted petitions to stop pet stores from selling rabbits, I certainly wouldn't change that. 

I'm dicey about this one myself, because it may (or may not)be something that exists at every similar school, not sure a 'call to arms' about one school isn't just blindly following one group's lead. And we don't know the group. The person who started the thread is certainly not an 'AR Terrorist,' this is a post that's circulating all over the net.

I'm personally totally opposed to animal testing (can't wait for them to create 'brain dead'clones for such things, protests may hurry that along), but the editorial policy of the board to date stops withpromoting the humane treatment ofLab Animals.

So yes, this post issomething needing a policy discussion. What it doesn't need, however, is a Breeder vs. AR discussion, which is definitely against the rules. 

I think it's great that you've pointed out who the originators of the story are, so people can do their research and rethink their support. But beyond that, this is also NOTa discussion about thetactics of AR groups.

I'm not opposed to discussion of animal testing, however. If it's not going to be the discussion intended, it won't be discussed at all.



sas


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## pamnock (Feb 19, 2008)

Thank you for the clarification 

It is always a concern to me when theforumleans towards animal rights/liberation, which is a movement I do not wish to be associated with. 

But, I do believe that animal welfare laws should be strongly supported and enforced (by legal means).

Pam


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## andrea2712 (Feb 19, 2008)

This is really disturbing!!! How can people do that??

I just sent my email!


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## Eve (Feb 20, 2008)

Thank you all for your replies. I very much enjoyed reading your post Orchid, thank you for taking the time to also post your extra research. 

My main issue regarding this topic is how unnecessary the use of live animals was in this particular experiment. I think that the learning objective of the experiment (that noradrenaline increases heart rate and glyceryl trinitrate decreases heart rate) is a fairly basic concept, one which I feel does not require dissecting live animals to get an understanding of. There were clearly other alternatives to taking part in the dissection and the teacher also claimed that students would not be disadvantaged in their coursework if they did not take part in the experiment. A video of the procedure was made available to students instead. Or, if the university deemed it absolutely necessary for learning purposes, I am sure that a demonstration would have been sufficient instead of testing 30 rabbits per science class.

Pam, I am largely in agreement with your viewpoints about the extreme measures taken by many animal liberation groups. However, please understand that I merely posted the link to the campaign because it most conveniently contained a collection of the relevant information regarding this issue in one source: The main outline of what happened, the footage of the actual event, information about the relevant university authorities to contact IF someone wished to email their opinion on the matter and a pre-written example of an email one could send. 

The main message contained in the email was âI am appalled and distressed that sentient animals will continue to be used in this way, especially considering that students have the option of watching a video of the procedure instead. This terrible waste of life must stop, and I ask that you remove these procedures from your syllabus immediatelyâ. I did not consider the content of this email to be at all violent, of a terrorist nature or criminal. 

Of course, it is always encouraged that everyone make their own judgments, conduct their own research and preferably write a letter in their own words IF they feel the issue is worthy of their attention.

I think that it is a bit extreme to suggest that I automatically endorse any violent or terrorist tactics by animal liberation groups, merely through my posting a link to an online petition. There have been a number of references to online petitions on RO in the past,ranging from selling pets on Petsmart to issues surrounding puppy mills and I therefore did not think reference to petitions was a breach of RO forum regulations. The topic of the tactics used byanimal liberation groupswas very far from the topic which I was originally hoping to initiate a discussion on. 

And lastly, it is important to note that the ALV are NOT the originators of the story which I have posted about. This is a current news story which was featured in one of the leading Australian newspapers, which is why I felt the News Wire forum was appropriate for the story. The ALV is simply one of the groups that chose to later voice their opinions in regard to the news reports and create an email petition.


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## pamnock (Feb 20, 2008)

Thank you Eve! A very well written response.

Pam


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