# Pam Nock



## Carolyn (Mar 24, 2004)

Hi Pam,


You said in one of your posts, "Most rabbits have fur mites to somedegree and never show symptoms." Is that something I should be treatingfrom time to time with Tucker, and if so, what would you recommend oneuse? I see no signs of mites, but sometimes when he's scratching orcleaning his ears, I question it. 

Many thanks,
-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Mar 24, 2004)

Hi Carolyn,

I recommend consulting with your vet about routine treatment withIvomec primarily because of another common parasite, E.cuniculi. The Ivomec will also kill mites and other internalparasites. I recommend this primarily in the 3+ age groupbecause due to aging, the rabbits are more susceptible to infestation.

The mites can actually be hard to diagnose, because they may not get picked up in a skin scraping. 

Because *any* medication can have serious side effects, I alwaysrecommend consulting with the vet for advice on proper administrationand dosage.

Pam


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## Carolyn (Mar 24, 2004)

Thanks Pam. Since Tucker's coming up on his third birthday this June,would you recommend me being on the lookout for any other such thingsthat aging rabbits seem vulnerable to? 

I'll follow your advice about the routine treatments. It does seem hardto diagnose other than the dandruff and residue in their ears as asign. Being a house rabbit and the only animal in the house, I'm hopingthat he'll be able to escape getting mites, but that would be luck, I'dimagine.

Are there any rabbit books or authors that stand out in your mind that seems to get it right more than not?

Thanks again. Sun's shining in this part of the world. Hope it is where you are too.

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Mar 24, 2004)

One of the "must haves" is a book by Kathy Smithcalled "Rabbit Health 101". It's under a new title now, butyou can purchase a copy from the House Rabbit Societywebsite. This book covers all aspects of caring for theconvalescing rabbit and the common diseases that affect the geriatricsect.

The 8th Edition of Rabbit Production is the most widely recommendedbook for rabbit owners and breeders. Don't let the title foolyou -- pet owners will find it one of their most used references also(although be advised that some of the text is of sensitive nature topet owners).

Pam


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 24, 2004)

Wow I didn't know bunny's could even getsick...goes to show what I know. I just feed mine and play with it,that's all I was told to do. She seems happy though! But like I said, Iknow nothing about rabbits. I came home one day and found her in thelaundry room, and she was so small and fluffy  The best present EVER!


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## Carolyn (Mar 24, 2004)

Thanks a lot, Pam.

I have the 8th Edition of the Rabbit Production book, but willdefinitely order the Rabbit Health 101 by K. Smith. Thanks for tellingme where to get it.

Last night, I was watching the Animal Planet and they had a special onthat were 50 most amazing facts about animals. Fact number 13 or 14,I'd heard before and was curious to see if you had too. They claim thatmammals hearts beat one billion times, after that, the muscle willstop. Humans, however, get 3 billion heart beats before ours stop. 


* * * * * * * * * *

Hi Michelle,

Rabbits hide their illnesses instinctively so that predators don't pickup on a weakness and attack. I don't want to alarm you, but the truthis that by the time an illness/cold/trouble shows up in a rabbit, it'svery hard to treat successfully, considering side effects of theirtreatment. 

Because they haven't been studied as much as cats, dogs, and horses,etc., I try to learn, read, and talk to other rabbit people as much asI can to keep Tucker healthy.

They're very sensitive; they can literally get scared to death. I neverrealized how much knowledge they required until I lost my first oneafter 2 weeks of purchasing him from a petstore that neglected to giveme the information and material I needed to keep the rabbit healthy andalive. That's one of the reasons why I was so angry at that petstorethat told you that you didn't need to feed your rabbit hay for thefirst 6 months of her life. Rabbits need hay from the time they stopnursing, if I'm not mistaken. 

* * * * * * * * * * *

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Mar 24, 2004)

I never heard that about the heartbeats -- that's notably interesting!

Here's info on a rabbit being "scared to death" . . .Shock, as inducedby trauma, is an example of an acute exhaustion of the bodys attemptto resist an injury. The "flight or fight" stress reaction allows ashift in the bodys resources to escape a real or perceived danger.Hormones begin flowing, a hyper-alert state results, blood pressureincreases, and proteins and carbohydrates began breaking down inunnecessary tissues. In prolonged casesthis can lead to afailure of body systems resulting in death because the body cannotmaintain this response for a long period of time without failure.

My thoughts on feeding hay : ) Rabbits don't *have* to havehay for a healthy life. Fiber is the key nutrient and is inrabbit pellets and many other foods that rabbits may be given such asapples, carrots, etc.

However, I certainly recommend hay because the bunnies love it and itprovides a longer fiber than is in the pellets. Babies willbegin to munch on the hay in the nest box. Our little babiesget hay daily pre-weaning. Post weaning and all other rabbitsget hay once a week. Since we have about 150 rabbits, dailyhay would create too much of a mess in the barn and would be too timeconsuming.

To order "Rabbit Health in the 21st Century" (formerly Rabbit Health 101) visit this website: 
http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/rh21.shtml


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 24, 2004)

Well the bag says to give her 2 handfuls of hay aday, so that's what I've been doing. She seems to like it. I reallydidn't know rabbits were so...fragile... How do they get sick? I didn'tthink there'd me much for her to get since she's inside and stuff.


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## pamnock (Mar 24, 2004)

Rabbits are no more prone to illness than you or I,and can actually be tough little creatures. Theyget sick from viral and bacterial pathogens just as you or I would, ormay suffer from congenital abnormalities. As they age, theyare more prone to illness as the immune system becomes less effective.


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 24, 2004)

Well, I hope she's like me, cuz I only get sicklike once every 5 or 6 years. Do bunnies sneeze? I thought I heard hersneeze once lol And today the poor lil thing didn't chew her foodenough I guess cuz she was like trying to gag it back up out of herthroat, then she started chewing it again, and back down itwent...kinda icky...lol. She tries to eat too fast:?poor bunny.


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## Carolyn (Mar 24, 2004)

Hi Pam,

Thanks for the explanation as to what happens in the scared to deathreaction. I thought it was a heart attack that would do it, but thestress of fear on the body over a prolonged period of time is a lotmore comforting. 

Also thought hay was absolutely necessary. Very interesting. Thanks fortaking the time to explain both. Check me on what I say below toMyBunnyLovesMe.

Regarding the allowance of the heart to beat a billion times in mammalslives and 3 billion in ours, they had scientists talking about thestudies done and how fast the heartbeats are for a mouse compared to anelephant - and then how it varies for humans. I had heard this factbefore a while ago, but was glad to see it reappear yesterday on alegitimate and educationally-driven documentary.

(Homeschooled children PLUS 150 rabbits? You must sleep well at night.)


-Carolyn

P.S. Yup, MyBunnyLovesMe, rabbits sneeze. You may look into investingin a rabbit cage with a drop pan in the future. Some breeders in yourarea or a shelter might have one for sale or know someone that does.The poop and urine drops right through the wire and into the pan underit and that makes it healthier for her because she'll remain dry, andit's easier to clean. I'll eat my new hat I bought today if Pamnockdoesn't agree.


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## pamnock (Mar 24, 2004)

Whew! No need to eat your hat CarolynLOL I am however, very open and supportive of solid bottoms,as in many foreign countries, keeping rabbits on wire isillegal. Larger breeds will also fare better on a solidfloor, as they are prone to sore hocks on wire.

I love the plastic resting boards for rabbits on wire -- it gives quite a bit of relief to the feet.

Rabbits can sneeze due to irritants. They may also bolt theirfeed and choke. One of the most terrible scenes to witness isa rabbit choking to death : ( Bunnies are especially prone tochoking on the larger pellets meant for adult rabbits.

I remember one of the kids in my old 4-H club did a project on theheart rates of different creatures. It was veryinteresting. We'll have to get out the stethoscope and listento the dog, hamster, chinchilla and bunny heartbeats and comparethem. My 5 year old will love that -- he'ssocaptivated withevery aspect of general science.He's loves to weigh his little dwarf hamster on a tiny dieteticscale-- yep -- she's still a solid 1.5 oz. LOL

Homeschooling the kids is a very intense undertaking. Myaforementioned just-turned 5 year old spent the entire day trying toprove that he can read well enough to take the American Rabbit BreedersAssociation Registrar's exam  It's so exciting to see achild so passionate about learning!

Pam


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## Carolyn (Mar 24, 2004)

Boy, Pam!

I'm feeling like Col. Schultz, "I know Nuttthinngg!!" 

You're an excellent teacher. You make learning fun, and it's alwaysexciting to learn no matter how old you are. It must've taken you yearsto get to where you are with your knowledge of rabbits. What a creditto you that your child wishes to walk in your footsteps. Hats off toya! (since you spared me from having to eat it!) 

Do let us know how things go at the lab once you've had a chance tocheck the heartbeats of your critters. On the show, they compared thesounds of a mouse's heartbeat to an elephant's.

I've always been curious to find out how trancing a rabbit effects theheartbeat. Before, during, and after the trancing. That may be anotherinteresting study, you think?

-Carolyn


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## Buck Jones (Mar 24, 2004)

As a former teacher, I originally was contrary tohome schooling, however, the older and more experienced I became, Igrew to understand some of the myriad of reasons one might want to homeschool their children.

Done effectively, and comprehensively, I don't think one could get abetter education anywhere. From what you espouse on theInternet in various sites, and how you do it, plus the credentials youearned in ARBA, I'm sure your efforts to home school yourchildrenfit into the above category and they willbenefit immeasurably for it.

Seems to me, that I could probably tip my hat off to you, as oneprofessional teacher to another, whether you have the credentials onpaper, or not.

Buck


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## pamnock (Mar 24, 2004)

Homeschooling is certainly not for everyone, and I have seen many failures and disasters.

I had reservations about even attempting it -- who would ever thinkyour children could learn more at home??? I couldgo on forever about the benefits that it has had for our family, notonly educationally, but emotionally and spiritually. It iscertainly an amazing lifestyle.

What is amazing is that there are no boundaries or limits. Mydaughter is taking everything from French to Bible History and isexcelling in math and grammar. Every homeschooling program isdifferent. I believe in a strong emphasis on math and grammarskills while building a spiritual foundation on studies of the Bible asit applies to character and ethics in todays world. My kidswill be able to graduate from homeschool with diplomas and will beprovided with college transcripts from Abeka Academy, where I purchasetheir books and video tapes.

Socialization? If you saw my 5 year old -- you'd neverquestion that homeschoolers lack social skills LOL He has noqualms about getting up in front of an entire group of people to talkabout his beloved rabbits. He's the etiquette expert and canflawlessly pledge his allegiance to our great flag.

Sports? Not a problem there either. My daughter hasparticipated in JV volley ball and basket ball and we also go up to therec center to "shoot some hoops".

The kids volunteer, earn money, are active in church and are well rounded citizens.

Our local public school has been impressed with my efforts and has been very supportive.

I apologize for drifting off topic -- I'm sure you can tell I ampassionate about education  If anyone is interested inobtaining further information, they can contact me privately [email protected]



Pam


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## pamnock (Mar 25, 2004)

We tried to get the little hamsters heartbeat, but it was just a blur, as their heart beats up to 500 bpm

You guys will love this interactive site . . .

Heartbeat in mammals -- interesting links --

http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/heart_size/frames.html


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## Buck Jones (Mar 25, 2004)

"Our local public school has been impressed with my efforts and has been very supportive."

No doubt, I can fully understand that. You are reaping thatwhich you have sown, with your dedication and effort. Not everyone isas willing to apply themselves so diligently to such a prolongedendeavor.

Your children will do you honor the rest of your life,Isuspect, especially as they get older and recognize what it is that youhave accomplished so selflessly.

You do Him honor,as well, but I'm sure you didn't need me to tell youthat. Your Christianity is evidenced in the way you deal withpeople on the Internet.

He is blessing you! 

Buck


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## pamnock (Mar 25, 2004)

Thank you Buck for your kinds words. It means so much coming from someone I hold in such high regard. 

I always look forward to reading your posts and wise words on our common interest, our beloved rabbits 

We certainly need to steer the conversation away from "Pam Nock" and get back to something of *real* interest LOL



Pam


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## Carolyn (Mar 25, 2004)

Here's another website that I found interesting.? Icouldn't pick up the full 'machine' on the site you had pointed out,Pam.? Bummer, but it got me looking further.?? It seems that the mouse,the human, and the elephant are 'the one's' to compare.?http://www.thaifocus.com/elephant/heartbeat.htm

I tried taking Tucks' heartbeat once, but found it impossible to countout,? Gabby, a poster that used to frequent the R.O. board, told meonce to get a stethoscope and just listen to his heart and his internalsounds so that I'm familiar with what's normal for him.? I haven't hadmuch luck really hearing anything but that little heartbeat and it's sofaint that I really have to focus when I'm trying to find it.

You guys should definitely check out this site.?http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi1834.htm

-Carolyn


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 25, 2004)

I heard that bunny's hearts can beat so fast thatthe "hum" is that true? I told my brother to be more careful with herafter that whole "scaring them to death" thing. We used to chase heraround and jump out in front of her, then she'd actually do the same tous, but if that's gonna kill her...like... I'm learning so much things,I feel like I'm doing everything wrong  Thanks for helping me again,Pam, Carolyn and Buck you've all be super helpful. I hope to have mybun long enough to walk down the aisle at my wedding as the ring bearer


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## Carolyn (Mar 25, 2004)

Hi Michelle,

I, too, am glad to have met your acquaintance. I enjoy your stories,your ideas, and your interest. I usually find myself smiling afterreading one of your posts. 

I really hope that your rabbit is with you on your wedding day too.Flopsy Walker lived to be 18 years, 10 months and 21 days old. (Flopsyis in the Guiness Book of World Records as the Longest Lived Rabbit.) 

Tucks and I are tryin to beat that record. Let's do it together, all of us and our rabbits. 

* * * * * * * * * * * * 

Does any one know about wild rabbits and their warrens? 

Within the warren in the wild, do rabbits all dig separate holes, or dothey dig one big tunnel and have a burrow of their own off of it? Whatabout rabbits that live in the country, but there aren't rooms forwarrens. Is that a different lifestyle or where you see one, there'smore?

Thanks for any insight you can give.

-Carolyn


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 25, 2004)

Well I hope my bun lives that long. I was just outfor a walk, when on the road I saw two little creatures, as Iapproached closer I saw that they were two buns! just hopingaround and playing with eachother it was so cute!!!!  It makes mewant to have more than one!!


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## Buck Jones (Mar 26, 2004)

Wild European rabbits live in warrens, or a seriesof underground burrows. I believe the entire group digs,enlarges, repairs the network of burrows with tunnels, sleepingchambers, toilet chambers and the like, but the Alpha male and femaleget the choicest locations and most of the attention from the rest ofthe group. Other couples mate and raise young, but more onthe periphery and less choice locations.

R.M. Lockley's _Life of the Rabbit _(1946?), and the basis forAdam's _Watership Down _is the best description of our domesticrabbits behaviors that I've been able to find.

Local cottontails do not live underground, but nest in depressions inthe ground, often under brush, foliage and the like. Ibelieve their young are more fully developed when born and do not needthe safety of a burrow while waiting for their eyes to open and fur togrow, like our European rabbit does.

There is much more involved than I would care to go into right now, orthat I could possibly remember from Lockley's most excellent book, butit is a worthwhile read if one can locate it, as it _WatershipDown_, in my estimation.

Buck


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## Carolyn (Mar 26, 2004)

Thanks, Buck. I will read it. Silly I haven't yet, I've only read pieces of it. Will start on it today.

* * * * * * * * * *

Hi Michelle,

I know what you mean about wanting more than one! I constantly have tokeep telling myself that Tucker's a handful himself as a house rabbit.

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Mar 26, 2004)

*MyBunnyLovesMe wrote:*


> I heard that bunny's hearts can beat so fast that the "hum"is that true? I told my brother to be more careful with her after thatwhole "scaring them to death" thing. We used to chase her around andjump out in front of her, then she'd actually do the same to us, but ifthat's gonna kill her...like... I'm learning so much things, I feellike I'm doing everything wrong  Thanks for helping me again, Pam,Carolyn and Buck you've all be super helpful. I hope to have my bunlong enough to walk down the aisle at my wedding as the ring bearer


I hope you'll post photos of the wedding : )

I'm not sure the of the maximum heart rate, but it probably doesn't compare to the hum of the 500 bpm of the little hamster LOL

Exercise is good for your bunn. It's the prolonged periods ofhigh stress/fear that can kill. It can happen when attackedby predator and sadly, I've heard of many instances of wooled rabbitsdying while being sheared. (We do shearing and I canguarantee that it does *not* have to be stressful orpainful). My 13 year old son is the *shearingmaster*. The rabbits act like they are act a beauty spa andare totally relaxed. Ryan just seems to have the magic touchwith them -- and he's not even a *rabbit person*.

Pam


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 26, 2004)

You shear rabbits, like you would sheep ?? I didn'tknow bunnies even had enough hair to do that and what would you need itfor? I couldn't picture my bun BALD! lol. As for the scaring thing, I'msure my bunny doesnt think of us as her predators, at least I hope shedoesn't. I'm sure if she did she'd run away more often. Last night Ihad her out and she was going crazy lol. She was running around so muchI couldn't keep my eye on her. She was just jumping and thumping thenshe'd take off somewhere then run back then flop over thenrun again! lol. Bunnies have the funniest behavioural patternssometimes


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## pamnock (Mar 26, 2004)

Clippers don't work well on the soft Angora wool(which can grow 5-10 inches or more), so we use small scissors,shearing them in the same way that you would shear a sheep (exceptwithout the clippers). Some people pluck their angoras whenthe coat matures and becomes loose and easily plucked.

You have to be very careful when shearing because it's easy to poke or cut the rabbit.

The do look funny after shearing : )

Pam


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 26, 2004)

Oh okay! I didn't even know you could do that! (told you I know NOTHING! lol)

I know you're supposed to clip your buns nails...but my buns aren'teven long. So I've only done it once so far. It's hard to keep herstill for that long, I don't even wanna try to bathe her or trytrimming her hair...lol I'd probably hurt the poor thing


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## pamnock (Mar 26, 2004)

When I clip nails, I usually go through and doabout 50 rabbits at a time. That's 900 toenails, so I have tobe pretty fast LOL

Pam


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 26, 2004)

holy crap lol...well, I thought I had it roughhahah. My bunny doesn't like to sit still... any tips? I usually wrapher in a towel and rub her little nose, it kinda puts her in a "trance"but not usually lol. She starts kickin and wants to get out. I'm soafraid to hurt her so I haven't cut her nails since, but like I said Ijust looked at them last night and they're not curling under oranything.


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## pamnock (Mar 26, 2004)

You do have to be careful when trying to hold them on their back so their don't struggle and break their back.

I sit on a crate (gives me a nice "lap" to hold bunns). Ihave a towel on my lap and firmly place bunn, using my legs to restrainthe rabbit. You can wrap part of the towel around therabbit's head if they are trying to struggle (this usually subduesthem). Be careful not to let them kick out as they candislocate/break their back. It's an unmistakable "pop" noisethat you do NOT want to hear : (



Pam


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 26, 2004)

Okay, well I don't have a crate... I have lots ofchairs though  I'll be careful with her. She likes to haveher face rubbed (between her eyes) it usually puts her tosleep so thats what I did the last time, but then she wakes up andtries to roll over on her tummy. I usually hold her tight enough sothat she doesn't feel too threatened but she can't move. I talk herthrough it, even though she never listens..lol


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## pamnock (Mar 26, 2004)

The chair doesn't give a good lap to work on --everyone pokes fun of me at the shows because I tattoo rabbits while Isit on a crate.

Pam


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## pamnock (Mar 26, 2004)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> I'm feeling like Col. Schultz, "I know Nuttthinngg!!"




The thing thatI love about the rabbit hobby and whatcontinues to fascinate me is the fact that I will never know everthingand I continue to learn something new everyday.


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## Carolyn (Mar 26, 2004)

Dogarnit!

I just went home and discovered that Tucker does have white flakes onhis ear and it looks like he's lost a bit of fur on the one ear aswell. Mites!I hate them!

I'm thinking of treating it with Listerine at first, but wondering whatyou think of that treatment. Is it really effective ingetting them and keeping them away? I'd tend to go for theflea powder after that because not quite sure at this time where to getthe ivomec. 

He's got a faux fur bed that he sleeps on all the time. Itcan only be washed in cold water, will that kill the mites if they'rein there or will he just be reinfested?

Thanks.

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Mar 26, 2004)

Mites cannot live for long off of the animal. Just stick the bed in a plastic bag for a month.

I've never used the listerine, but it certainly can't hurt to try that first.

Kitten flea powder should be effective. Always be aware that*any* flea/mite/tick medication, in rare cases, can cause aneurological reaction when absorbed through the skin. Thereare also risks with Ivomec. 

Just want to be sure to stick a couple disclaimers in there LOL --don't want anyone saying that "Pam assured us that product wascompletely safe" :?



Pam


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## Carolyn (Mar 26, 2004)

Hi Pam,

Thanks for being so thorough in your answer. I dowant to keep it as organic as I can get. A poster on theRabbit Web suggested to someone to use Listerine and an "apply" oliveoil. She said to spray down the cage with listerine as welland feed rosemary to the rabbits daily that have mites. Shealso suggested rosemary oil between their shoulder blades, which is acommon place forcats to get treated for fleas. Iwonder how long the mites will last with that combination.Don't want a problem with reinfestation. I wish I knew whatcaused the dogarned things! 

Tucker's trouble spot is on the fur on the back of his ears.Are they fur mites or ear mites, in that case? No sign ofproblems inside the ears, just the dandruff look, so I'm thining it'sfur mites.

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Mar 26, 2004)

With the olive oil and rosemary, it sounds like we're preparing Tucker for the roasting pan not fur mite treatment LOL

Olive oil will make a mess, although I believe you said you had purchased some VetRx? Rub a little of that on.



Pam


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## Carolyn (Mar 26, 2004)

GREAT IDEA!!!! :dude:

I _completely_ forgot about thatstuff!!It just needs to be applied to thearea that's infected, or should I dowse a little all over? 

Will get my steamer out tonight and give that cage a goodcleaning. Dirty little varmints!! I'm gonna killthem all dead! 

Yes, was NOT looking forward to the oliveoil!"GettingTucker readyfor theroasting pan with the rosemary and olive oil."*laughs*It really does. 

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Mar 26, 2004)

Just applya littleVetRx to the affected area. 

Pam


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 26, 2004)

Wow yet another thing I didn't know bunshad...mites are like fleas I'm guessing? What are the signs that theyhave them? Where do they come from... she's never been outside oranything...and the house seems pretty clean lol. Let me know! And howcan I prevent this and stop it! And what to look for.


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## Carolyn (Mar 26, 2004)

Hi Michelle,

The way I was able to tell that Tucker has them is because his earslook like he's got a little bit of dandruff on it. Not sureif they're ear mites or fur mites, but either way, they've got togo. Ear mites leave the inside of earslooking quite irritated. 

* * * * * * * * * *

I put the VetRx on Tucker, Pam, removed all of his toys and his beddingand they're all in a paper bag for the moment, sealed for themonth. Poor little guy is mad at me for bothering his ears,but he let me put it on him without a fuss. Thanksfor your help today. 

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Mar 26, 2004)

*MyBunnyLovesMe wrote:*


> Wow yet another thing I didn't know buns had...mites arelike fleas I'm guessing? What are the signs that they have them? Wheredo they come from... she's never been outside or anything...and thehouse seems pretty clean lol. Let me know! And how can I prevent thisand stop it! And what to look for.


There are many different types of mites that inhabit every inch of yourhouse includinghouse dust mites, spider mites, mouse mites,plant mites, etc. So, mites being present on our rabbits isnot a major surprise.

Here's some mite photo slides:

http://www.radil.missouri.edu/RADILinfo/para/fur.asp

More info:

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/furloss.html

http://www.rabbit.org/chapters/san-diego/health/vet-talk/new-bug.html


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 26, 2004)

So is its nothing I should really be overlyconcerned about?? I mean dogs get fleas all the time and it doesn'tbother them, except for being itchy. My bun never really touches herears so I'm sure shes fine! She only touches them when she's cleaningherself all over.


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## pamnock (Mar 26, 2004)

Correct -- unless you see evidence of infestation,I wouldn't be overly concerned. The mites are normally not aproblem in healthy rabbits. In fact I rarely ever see anyevidence of mites on our rabbits (they are there, I'm sure).I used to go through and mite dust them a couple times a year, but itreally doesn't seem necessary.


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 26, 2004)

Okie dokie! Well thanks for giving me all this valuble information!!!!


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## Carolyn (Mar 26, 2004)

Pam,

I'm glad you pointed out all the various types of mites there are. Itfreaks me out though because I hate seeing Tucker like this. He'salways shown signs of good health, and I'm concerned that this is asign that he's aging or if it started with the bedding. I know you saidthat they're usually present, but the dandruff look on the one eartoday has me really beating myself up. I'm sure it's not far alongbecause this is the very first day I've seen a symptom of it. 

Not sure how long to stick with VetRx before I know if it's working ornot, but I'll give it a couple of treatments and hope and pray that itworks. I'm sure it will work. It seems to have what it needs to killthe mites.

Thanks for listening. I'm just bummed feeling like I let him down.

-Caroly


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## pamnock (Mar 26, 2004)

At certain times of year, mites may beworse. The two times I contracted them was during the winter(yes, humans can get them - not fun). From what I have read,fur mites do not come from shavings, hay, etc. because they cannotsurvive off the animal in a dry place very long. 

You haven't let Tucker down. Sounds to me like he couldn't possibly have it any better 

I think a few applications should clear it right up.

How old is he? I'm sure you mentioned it before, but I can't remember.

One thing just to keep in mind for the future as he does age is thefact that I highly recommend Nutri Cal because it is so easilydigestible. I used to work at a "geriatric" horse farm andfound that such supplements made a world of difference in the animalsability to resist any type of disease, including skindiseases. Our 40 year old pony was like a "new man" when Iswitched to a senior horse feed.



Pam


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## Carolyn (Mar 26, 2004)

Hi Pam,

He'll be 3 in July. I'll definitely get some NutriCal. This area hasmore horses than people. I'm sure I can find it pretty easily. Ishould've had it by now because I've heard you mention it over and overagain. 

(I think he's trying to cheer me up because he's racing around and stopped obsessing about cleaning the VetRx off of him.)

Thank you so much for your kindness. I really needed you today and youwere right there for me. I don't know how you thank someone for that.

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Mar 26, 2004)

I went off on the horse tangent, but wasn'tspecific that Nutri Cal is a product for dogs and cats and comes intube form : ) It can be found at many pet stores.The Valley Vet online store has it for a good price.

You are always there for everyone else, and so supportive and caring,that I was glad I could be of some help to you


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## Carolyn (Mar 28, 2004)

Thanks Pam. 

Ya know, I'm starting to wonder if it ever really was mites. You knowhow the VetRx has an oily texture to it and allows you to really seethe skin? Well, upon careful investigation for the past couple of days,I'm beginning to wonder if its the pigmentation of his skin. What Ithought appeared to be white speckles of dead skin isn't dead skinbecause it would come right off and it doesn't.

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Mar 28, 2004)

That may be so Carolyn. At least he'll have soft, conditioned ears LOL

Pam


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## Carolyn (Mar 28, 2004)

I really think that's what's going on, Pam. How Silly of Me! Boy, am I glad I didn't treat him with anything other than VetRx.

The more I examine him, the more I'm sure that I misdiagnosed him. Poorlittle guy has been taking it like a trooper too. He even cuddled upwith me last night; I wouldn't've done that if I were him.

I searched for Nutri-Cal at the Animal Hospital's store. They didn'thave it, so I'll just get it online where you had pointed me to. Wassurprised that the animal hospital didn't have it on-hand. 

Thanks for all your help. :dude:


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## pamnock (Mar 28, 2004)

Here's where I order the Nutri Cal http://www.valleyvet.com/

Valley Vet also carries Nutri Stat (same thing as Nutri Cal)

Very glad to hear little Tucker is doing just fine 

Pam


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 28, 2004)

I'm glad Tucker is okay!!!  Do you name your buns Pam? I'd imagine you'd have a lot to remember lol.


----------



## pamnock (Mar 28, 2004)

*MyBunnyLovesMe wrote:*


> I'm glad Tucker is okay!!!  Do you name your buns Pam? I'dimagine you'd have a lot to remember lol.


Almost all of them have names, which I tattoo in their ear. 

I can't remember numbers very well 

One of my favorite young does is "Pergolia". Also have a couple cute bucks, "Pharaoh" and "Bequest". 



Pam


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 29, 2004)

Aww, that's cute! I didn't know bunnies got tattooed. But I guess you'd have to keep track of all the ones you have


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## pamnock (Mar 29, 2004)

*MyBunnyLovesMe wrote:*


> Aww, that's cute! I didn't know bunnies got tattooed. But Iguess you'd have to keep track of all the ones you have




Under ARBA rules, rabbits exhibited in the US, Japan &amp; Canadamust be tattooed for identification. (In the UK, metal legbands are used for identification).

Without a form of identification, rabbits could easily be mixed up.

Pam


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 29, 2004)

Ohh, okay! So if you wanna show them and breed themor whatever they must be tattooed? Kinda like Dogs then, right? There'sno bunny shows over here... rabbits just aren't that popular


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## pamnock (Mar 29, 2004)

They just need to be tattooed to show.

There are shows up in Canada, just not very many due to lack ofinterest and difficulty in finding judges. I have worked witha judge living in Canada (originally from England) and was recentlyasked if I'd be willing to travel up to Canada to judge.

Pam


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 29, 2004)

Ahh well that's cool...  I'd put my bun in a showbut she wouldn't win lol. She's cute but...she's bad and will runaround all crazy like hahaha


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## pamnock (Mar 29, 2004)

I like judging the youth mixed breed classes -- I know your beautiful girl would certainly be a champion 



Pam


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 29, 2004)

aww, well thank you for believing in my little bunny.


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## Carolyn (Mar 29, 2004)

That was cute, Pam! A little champion. I'm so glad that the kids have amixed breed catagory. I thought showing was just for purebreds.

I once had the same concern about Tucker behaving, MyBunnyLovesMe.Trekcip told me that the bunnies usually do well when they're in thatenvironment. I just had visions of chasing Tucker around a million andtwo rabbit cages trying to catch him. It turned out that I couldn'tshow him if I wanted to because he's fixed, so that took away mydilemma pretty quickly.

-Carolyn


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 29, 2004)

You can't show them if they're neutered?? Why's that??? Can I show my lil bun?


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## pamnock (Mar 29, 2004)

Any buck 6 months or over must have both testicles : )

Pam


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 29, 2004)

so he an't just have only one??? lol j/k Okay, well that stinks for poor lil Tucker, I think he could win!


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## Carolyn (Mar 31, 2004)

Hi Pam,

That dogarned patch of skin remains. As I posted on the web,

"I've treated him for mites and followed all the steps thatentails, however, this patch of what looks like dry skin remains. Thereis no evidence of mites anywhere. He hasn't been scratching or shakinghis head, and when I've put mineral oil on the ear, it didn't 'wash'away the dead skin, if that's what it is. The rabbit's habits have notchanged. He gets pellet food, unlimited amounts of Timothy Hay, he'sgot a healthy appetite, thirst, and vigor for life."

I'm perplexed.

-Carolyn

* * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Regarding Tucks being a Blue Ribbon Winner: Haven't met a rabbit yet that shouldn't be one!


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## pamnock (Mar 31, 2004)

Carolyn,

Is it inside the ear or on the outside (or along the veryedge)? Is it something you can scratch off with afingernail, or does it look more like a patch of pigment?Exactly how large is it? Does it have the appearance ofdandruff or is it different?

Does Tucker ever go out in the grass, or is he always inside? Does he have any exposure to any other animals?

I believe you said Tucker is 3 years of age? (Just wanted to double check)

Do you have a closeup photo of it?



Pam


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## Carolyn (Mar 31, 2004)

Its on the outside of one of his ears, it's aboutas big as apinky nail. It's right where the earfolds next to the other ear. He doesn't ever go outside orhave other animals come into our home. I can't easily scrapeit off with my nail. It doesn't seem to come off.The fur is a little shorter there, because it's not raw and he's gotbrown fur, I think it would be hard to photograph. My camerawouldn't magnify it that much, I know that for sure. It seemsto be getting a bit whiter in the pastday. Healways shakes me off of him when I'm checking itout. It does look like dandruff, but oil doesn'twash it away and neither does my fingernail.When Idid getatiny piece of it, it almost lookedsilvery-white. It was sosmall, it was hard totell. Tucker will be 3 years old in June.

Thanks Pam.

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Mar 31, 2004)

Because it's on the back of the ear, the skin mayjust be flaking off due to the friction of being in contactwith the other ear (especially if it's sparsley furred), orthe back when he puts his ear back.

I would like to see a fungal infection ruled out. Any vet cando a culture (takes about 2 weeks). You can try a tiny bit offoot fungus powder for people to see if that helps.

If not, try breaking a vitamin E capsule and rubbing it into the effected area.



Pam


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## Carolyn (Mar 31, 2004)

Thank You Very Much, Pam.

I'll treat that little man first with what you've suggested and if in acouple of days, it's not cleared up, I'll take him in. I justhave no faith in the vets in this area, but will ask them to take aculture of it by the weekend if Vitamin E and foot fungus powderdoesn't work. Is one brand of the fungus more preferred touse than another?

Tucks and I thank you very very much for your help, Pam. :dude:

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Mar 31, 2004)

Any brand of people fungus foot powder willdo. I found it very effective in treating skin flaking due tofungus on our horses. In some cases, the fungus can be causedby wet dew from the grass, which is why I asked about the rabbit beingoutside at all.

Pam


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## Carolyn (Mar 31, 2004)

Again, Thanks Pam.

I'll definitely try it. Thanks. I'll bring Tucker in this weekend if I don't see any improvement. 

You've been a God Send.

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Mar 31, 2004)

And you are a doll  I wantedto thank you for the invite. Whenmy kids are older,my husband and I plan on traveling more and I plan on coming to one ofthose beach parties and meeting everyone!



Pam


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## Robbie Phillip Odum (Mar 31, 2004)

Hi Carolyn,

You mentioned that the fur was a little shorter...sounds like fur mitesfor sure. I had that problem and gave some ivomec and it cleared rightup. I'm afraid you're gonna have tobreak away from the organicdoctoring and give him some. Take as good a picure as you can ande-mail it to me and I'll see if I cant help you further.

~Robbie


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## Carolyn (Mar 31, 2004)

Hi Robbie,

I suppose I'll be getting some of the ivomec. I'm will treatit with the suggestionsPamnock had. I just don'tunderstand the mites though. Tucker's cage is cleaned everyday, he's not in contact with other animals, and he doesn't ever gooutside. I steam clean his cage each week. It's soannoying because I can'tfigure outwhere the mitescame from. Nice to hear from you again, Robbie.

* * * * * * * * 

Thank you both for your offer to take a look at it if I'm able to posta picture of it. Pam, would truly love it if some day wecould meet. I know I speak for everyone that are planning togo to the picnic. I just wanted to make sure you feltincluded.

I wish all the posters here could make it. We have a nice group here.

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Mar 31, 2004)

Hi Carolyn,

The bottles of Ivomec are for more than you would ever use.You can purchase a syringe full from the vet (a 1 cc syringe wouldcontain over 10 dosages).

At this point, I'm doubting fur mites, as the VetRx would have suffocated them and cleared the ear up pretty quickly.

Pam


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## Carolyn (Mar 31, 2004)

Yes, I was thinking the same thing, Pam.The VetRx has a good consistency to it and from what I've read aboutthe mites, they suffocate when they have a mineral oil applied becauseit clogs them up. The VetRx has the same texture as mineraloil, and I've applied it one day, 24 hours later, and then 36 hoursafter that. As you know, the skin didn't flake off or seemedto have changed. It would make more sense to me if there wereother patches or evidence, but there isn't. 

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Mar 31, 2004)

Do you happen to know if that area of the ear hasalways been like that? We have a Satin that has always had apatch of "odd" skin on her back. It's about the size of aquarter and the hair growing out of it is very soft with no guardhairs,looking like a patch of *dead* coat. It's never changed.



Pam


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## Carolyn (Mar 31, 2004)

Pam,

I do believe it's always been there. It sounds Very Similarto what you describe. Actually, it sounds exactly like that,especially how you described the fur on top of it, just not as big as aquarter and the area isn't growing. Since the hair on theoutside top of the ears isn't thick anyway, it's something I'vequestioned myself in being too paranoid over.

-Carolyn


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 31, 2004)

I wish I could meet you guys someday, I'm in Canada though so it will probably never happen 



You really clean his cage everyday?? Are you supposed to cuz I cleanMegan's like once a week (and you know the way she poops lol). Is thatbad for her? It's just so pointless to me the way you clean it then 30minutes later it looks like it did BEFORE you cleaned it. So I only doit once every week. Good news though, after giving her the Timothy Hay,for some reason she seems to be pooping less! So there's not that bigof a mess on the floor anymore, which my mom is happy about. We alsosprayed Apple Lysol on the carpet just to test something, and where wesprayed it, she doesn't poop anymore... she poops AROUND the spotlol... which is weird but it worked, so maybe we'll try spraying allthe carpet..... Anyway, how's everyones little bunnies today? Megans inher cage staring at the wall....


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## Carolyn (Mar 31, 2004)

Hi MyBunnyLovesMe,

Don't be so certain that our paths may never cross. Strangerthings have happened. If not this time around, perhaps thenext time. You never know!! Would've sent you aninvitation just to feel a part of it too, but didn't have youraddress. As I said, you'll all be in our thoughts that day.

It's not necessary to clean the rabbit's cage every day. I'm sure once a week is just fine. 

I'm thrilled to hear that her pooping seems more undercontrol. Woo Hoo!! Tucker's great today, thanks forasking. He was a less mischievous last night than the nightbefore, Thank God! He was Big Trouble the night beforelast. 

-Carolyn


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 31, 2004)

Aww, what was the bad bun up to this time?? 2nights ago my bun saw a bug on the floor, and she started stalkingit...lol, then she killed it.... weird... lol. What was little Tuckerup to?


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## Carolyn (Mar 31, 2004)

Hi MyBunnyLovesMe, 

He was:

1) Chewing things he shouldn't've been chewing

2) Hiding on me only to dash in to parts of the apt. he shouldn't be in and then not coming when I called him.

3) Looking straight at me and pooping outside his litterbox

4) Throwing his hay rack when he was through and making a scene by continuing to toss it around until I refilled it.

And he just kept repeating the behaviors above without any regard to getting in trouble the whole night.

Too funny that your baby is stalking bugs. She's so tough! 

-Carolyn


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 31, 2004)

lol yeah I was like "eew a bug Maggie!" and shekilled it... do you think bunnies can actually hear what we're saying?She never comes if I call her, or if I tell her no. So I dunno, maybeshe just likes to ignore everyone lol. I hope she's not deaf. Mybrother had a drumset when we first got her that was pretty loud, plusall the loud music in our house.... it used to scare the crap outtaher, now she doesn't really respond to anything, The only thing sheseems to respond to when she'd bad I'll clap really loud andsay no, she kinda twitches her ears, then goes back to being bad... soI'm not sure anymore...


----------



## Carolyn (Mar 31, 2004)

Greetings Folks,


Michelle: I do know that Tucker has selective hearing depending uponwhether he agrees with what I'm saying or will shake his head in anattempt to shake my nagging from his brain. Rabbits ears are verysensitive to sound from everything I've picked up. Not sure exactlywhat their hearing level is compared to us, but in a lot of materialsI've read and seen just with Tucker, loud noises not only scare thembut can hurt/damage their hearing. 

* * * * * * * * * *

PamNock and Robbie: UPDATE on the 'mites' or whatever this condition ishe's got. I picked up Tinactin, antifungal absorbent powder, Listerine,and Vitamin E oil. Came home, only applied the E oil, and went to theanimal hospital store and picked up some Ivermectin. Was heading out ofthe store and Pam's advice to check with the doctor for dosage amountstuck in my head, so I went in. Spoke to the doctor and the nurse therethat has rabbits and they thought that the Ivermectin 1.87% is toostrong of a dosage for a rabbit and said that it could be lethal if Iwas to give him too much. They took that back and gave me Eradimite.I'm to apply it for 3 weeks and if the white stuff is still there, I'mto bring him in for a visit and I'd have a culture done as Pamsuggested. I'll definitely apply the Vitamin E oil as well because itcan't hurt. 

Thanks so much for your concern.

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Mar 31, 2004)

Whew Caroloyn! Sounds like you had a busy day!

I should have been more specific on the Ivermectin that Iuse. It's the 1% Ivomec for Swine at 1/10 of a cc per every 5pounds of body weight (per our vet's recommendation). I havealso used the paste wormer, however an accurate measurement is not aseasily obtained. Of course, always consult with the vet beforemedicating 

The Ivomec is a good routine medication for older rabbits, who are moreprone to the effects of E. Cuniculi, however, some rabbits aresensitive to the medication.

I know you'll keep us updated -- I'd sure like to know what's going on.

Pam


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## Carolyn (Mar 31, 2004)

Hi Pam!

I won't give Tucker medication before checking it with a doctor aftertoday. That came too close for comfort because I would've used the1.87% because it was the smallest dosage they had. I'm taking a bigsigh of relief, believe me. *Phew* The 1 cc to 1/10 and all that jazz,I'd just as soon pay for a vet visit and have someone show me ratherthan try to figure that out. I have yet to get a scale to truly knowTucker's weight, so I wouldn't trust myself. I'm going to get to thebottom of this thing because it's bugging me. (I'm sure everyone on theboard will be glad when I do because you're tired of hearing about it.)I just have to know what it is. Tucker doesn't seem affected by it, butmost rabbits don't when something's bothering them. 

Wanta know something cool? The hospital didn't say "We'll have to seehim first before we can tell you what to do." They took the time tolisten to me and answer my questions, then handed me the medication,and we settled the price difference. Pretty cool, I thought. 

Curious as to if you've ever heard of this Eradimite before? The twoactive ingredients are 0.15% of Pyrethrins, and 1.50% Pieronyl butxide.The inert ingredients make up of 98.35%. It's claim to fame is 'earmite treatment for dogs, puppies, cats, kittens, and rabbits', but italso removes ear wax.

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Mar 31, 2004)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> Curious as to if you've ever heard of this Eradimite before? I neverhave. The two active ingredients are 0.15% of Pyrethrins, and 1.50%Pieronyl butxide. The inert ingredients make up of 98.35%. It's claimto fame is 'ear mite treatment for dogs, puppies, cats, kittens, andrabbits', but it also removes ear wax.
> 
> -Carolyn





When we had show horses, I used a product similar to Eradimite to cleantheir ears : ) Some animals are sensitiveto Pyrethrins, so just watch the area for any sign of swelling orTucker's eyes running. Just use a tiny amount. Ifthe cause is mites, the Pyrethrin should eradicate them.

The fact that you *can't* easily scrape the flake off with your fingeris nagging at the back of my brain. In the case of ear mites,the skin flakes off rather easily.

Pam


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## Carolyn (Mar 31, 2004)

Okay Pam...

Will Do! 

Thank You! :dude:

* * * *

That's what bothers me too, I can't scrape it off. It's the strangestthing. It's not dandruff, I swear. I'll be shocked if it's mitesbecause you and the couple I bought Tucker from both have had successwith the VetRx on ear mites. Jeanne and Al Vaill are in theirretirement years and have raised rabbits for a very long time. Lastfall at the Goshen Bunny Show, Al told me they had about 180 rabbits atthat time. They aren't out to make a buck, pardon the pun. They'llhonestly tell you what works and what doesn't. The VetRx should'veclogged the mites pores and suffocated them without a problem. Thewhite dander/dandruff is still there. No matter how I rub or scratch abit to see if I can remove it, it doesn't move. God, I've thought ofeverything I can think of ...even gray hair, but it's not that. I'vebeen all over the net looking for skin issues on rabbits and none of itlooks similar. Weird, but I'll do this so I can rule out the simplestsolution first.

Thanks for listening.

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Mar 31, 2004)

It sounds like it may just be an area of skin lacking pigment.

You may want to look into information on "vitiligo". 

Pam


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## Carolyn (Apr 1, 2004)

The ear looks better today. It now seems to have flaked off and thecolor is back. I guess it was mites, or the Vitamin E. We're goin inthe right direction!

I just have to say, Tucker's been a Champ about letting me check outthat ear. Each time, I'd expect to have to talk him into letting melook at him, but when I go up to him and touch the ear, he hunkers downand lets me have at it for a few minutes and when I'm done, he shakeshis ears. He's such a good baby, and he just shook his booty at me andjumped in his litterbox. 



(Didn't take long for him to misbehave. He's already out of the box and he wasn't done going.)

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Apr 1, 2004)

Very happy to hear the good news!


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## Carolyn (Apr 2, 2004)

Should I give him the medicine again today or let it be and treat it with the Vitamin E?

It looks great.


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## pamnock (Apr 2, 2004)

I would just go with the vitamin E. Ialways advise caution with any mite medications as the rabbit candevelop a sensitivity to them. If it was mites, they wouldhave now been clearly exposed with the removal of the skin flake, so Idon't see further need at this time to medicate. If it isn'tmites, then application of more mite medication will just be a waste.

Keep an eye on it and see how things go from here 



Pam


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## Carolyn (Apr 2, 2004)

That's interesting, Pam, because there wasn't astitch of evidence of mites.? Thank you for your advice.? I shallfollow it and only use the E.? I'm glad I asked.? I didn't thinkmedicating him unless absolutely needing to would be good for hisimmune system.? Thanks A Lot!

:dude:


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Got the Nutri-Cal today!? I'm psyched I have it for?an emergency.? HopeI never use it, but it's comforting to know it's there if I need it.???

?


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## Carolyn (Apr 2, 2004)

Hi Pam!

Tucker's ear's as good as new! You'd never know there was a thing wrong. 

YAY!!

xo,
-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Apr 2, 2004)

It's a great day all-around  Today I received the good news that I'm now an official ARBA judge -- I'm so excited!



Pam


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Apr 2, 2004)

Congratulations to Carolyn for curing her Buns ear! and to Pam for become a judge!! Way to go guys!


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## Carolyn (Apr 2, 2004)

:dude::dude::dude::dude::dude::dude::dude::dude::dude::dude::dude:

CONGRATULATIONS, Your Honor!!!

I'm so Proud of You! Wooooo Hoooooo 
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!! 

That's Awesome! What hard work. Way To Go!



I couldn't be happier than I am for you. 

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Apr 2, 2004)

Thank you Carolyn


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Apr 2, 2004)

you're welcome too lol I congratulated you both but it's on the other page all hidden hahaha but I'll say it again! CONGRATS!!!


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## Buck Jones (Apr 2, 2004)

Congratulations, Pam! What'snext? National Board? Betcha could do it!Couldn't happen to a nicer, nor more rabbit knowledgeableperson, in my estimation.

I won't say, "Best of luck!", 'cause I know "luck" had nothing to dowith it and "luck" will have nothing to do with the admirablereputation I am sure you will develop as an official ARBA judge.

I love it when good things happen to nice people!

Buck


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## pamnock (Apr 3, 2004)

Thank you everyone  What'snext? After all I've been through to get to this point, Ijust want to kick back enjoy it LOL

Pam


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## Carolyn (Apr 3, 2004)

Thank you, Dearest Michelle. I too was thrilled with not a stitch ofevidence left over from Tucker's ear. I can't take the credit, I justfollowed what Pamnock and the doctor told me to do. 

I'm so relieved that it's over. I really don't think it was mites. Ithink it was more of a skin thing for him going on, and I'mover-the-top knowing that it's completely gone.

Thank you again for your cheers of joy for my little guy. That was very sweet and telling of the kind of person you are.

-Carolyn


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## Carolyn (Apr 12, 2004)

Hey Pam! 

Here's Roberto Rabbit!


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## pamnock (Apr 12, 2004)

Awesome -- what a handsome accessory


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## crissie5000 (Apr 12, 2004)

hi pam if you are on this forum now i think you are really nice and my mum's name is pamela



youare the best


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## pamnock (Apr 12, 2004)

Thanks Crissie -- You're prettysensational yourself! 



Pam


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Apr 12, 2004)

You All Rock!


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## Carolyn (Apr 12, 2004)

Back atcha, Chicky! 


* * * * * * * * * *

When I first got the bunny purse above, Tucker was so jealous. He gaveme millions of kisses and wouldn't leave my side. He was a good boy,without needing correction for about 2 whole nights. :shock:

He's waaayyy over that now. :X

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Apr 12, 2004)

Guess you'll have to go shopping for a new purse every few days to keep him in line LOL


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Apr 12, 2004)

I bought a new purse today!  It's white andpink, with a pink "M" stitched on the front in kinda fancy writing  Ilike it! It came with a matching change purse thinger


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## Carolyn (Apr 12, 2004)

I WISH, Pam! :?

* * * * * * * *

Cool, Michelle! I know exactly the kind your talking about. I've seen them in Filene's and JCPenny. They're really cute! 

-Carolyn


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Apr 12, 2004)

You edited the last part I see...lol it also has apink strap, very cute  Never thought I'd spend $30 just ona purse, I could've gotten 2 more tanks for that lol


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## Carolyn (Apr 12, 2004)

They're sturdy purses and it'll go with everything. I like the pink instead of the black lettering. Very cool! 



-Carolyn


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Apr 13, 2004)

Yeah it's a nice purse  It's kinda like a softleather type material  And I like how the wallet matches so I think Ilucked out when I found it, it was the last one!


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## Buck Jones (Apr 13, 2004)

My God, Carolyn! I had no idea that waswhat Roberto would look like. That is somethingelse! I imagined something like like a wooden cylinder withhead/feet attached, or something...or whatever. I did notexpect a wooden sculpture that would function as a purse.

Knowing the background of the purse, and the fact it is the last one tobe produced, and you have the documentation to prove it, there is nodoubt in my mind that you have an instant collectible!

How truly unique!

Buck


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Apr 13, 2004)

I don't see how it opens or how you could fit anything in it lol but it's cute


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## carrots (Apr 13, 2004)

*Congratulations Pam! *


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## Carolyn (Apr 13, 2004)

Dear Pam, 

I've spoken to Kathy Smith, the author of _Rabbit's Health 101_,and told her that you had highly-recommended her book. (Iordered it of course.) Told her that you're very muchrespected by the rabbit community and are an ARBA Judge. Shewas thrilled with your referral. It made her day. She was just estatic, and wanted me to let you know howmuch she appreciates your opinion of it.

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Apr 13, 2004)

Carolyn,

I'm thrilled to hear you ordered the book -- it's an outstandingreference. I'll have to get around to purchasing the newestaddition, but the older one I have is also very good.

The book is one of the best medical references on rabbits that you can purchase for such a reasonable price.

Pam


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## bluebird (Apr 15, 2004)

The listerine will kill the fur mites.bluebird


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## Carolyn (Apr 15, 2004)

Hi Bluebird,

How often and long do you have to treat with listerine, and where onthe rabbit do you put it, just on the ears? I was justcurious.

-Carolyn


----------



## carrots (Apr 15, 2004)

_I have read her book it is great, simple and to the point. _


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## crissie5000 (Apr 15, 2004)

hi guys i am only 13 so what does correction mean?lol i am to young to understand


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## Carolyn (Apr 15, 2004)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> When I first got the bunny purse above, Tucker was so jealous. He gaveme millions of kisses and wouldn't leave my side. He was a good boy,without needing correction for about 2 whole nights. :shock:
> 
> He's waaayyy over that now. :X
> 
> -Carolyn




Hi Crissie5000,

I meant that Tucker didn't get in trouble. Since he was agood boy, he didn't 'need correction.' He didn't need to beyelled at because he wasn't doing anything wrong.

-Carolyn


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## crissie5000 (Apr 15, 2004)

oh so is tucker your son? sorry i am not good with big people speak lol


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## Carolyn (Apr 16, 2004)

Crissie5000,

Nope, Tucker is my male rabbit.  He's going to be 3 years old inJune. I was just joking by calling him my son because he's a boy.

* * * * * * *

Pam,

Strangest thing. Last night, I noticed that Tucker's other ear has whatthe first one had weeks ago. I rubbed some Vitamin E Oil on it, andit's looking 80% back to normal today. 

I'm completely baffled. 

-Carolyn


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## Buck Jones (Apr 16, 2004)

How very peculiar, Carolyn. Iwould, indeed, be very puzzled, myself. From oneear to another? You would think, now, that therewas some kind of cause.

Buck


----------



## Carolyn (Apr 16, 2004)

Buck,

The only thing I can surmise from this is that his ears are touching and it's creating this issue I have. 

I'm completely at a loss. 

Thank you so much for troubleshooting.

-Carolyn


----------



## pamnock (Apr 17, 2004)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> Pam,
> 
> Strangest thing. Last night, I noticed that Tucker's other ear has whatthe first one had weeks ago. I rubbed some Vitamin E Oil on it, andit's looking 80% back to normal today.
> 
> ...




That's strange -- keep us updated.

Pam


----------



## crissie5000 (Apr 17, 2004)

oops sorry


----------



## Carolyn (Apr 17, 2004)

No apology necessary, Crissie5000. 

-Carolyn


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## Carolyn (Apr 20, 2004)

Pam,

I'm thinkin this issue of Tuck's ears has to do with where the earsmeet, and possible irritation of the skin at times. Maybewhen he gets hot or something, it acts up. Am keeping an eyeon it.

-Carolyn


----------



## pamnock (Apr 20, 2004)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> Pam,
> 
> I'm thinkin this issue of Tuck's ears has to do with where the earsmeet, and possible irritation of the skin at times. Maybewhen he gets hot or something, it acts up. Am keeping an eyeon it.
> 
> -Carolyn


Could very well be. Heat and moisture from holding the earsdown could cause some irritation or bacterial/fungal growthonthe skin.



Pam


----------



## Carolyn (Apr 20, 2004)

That makes complete sense to me, Pam.Thank you for acknowledging myquestion, as you always do andwe all appreciate so much. Will pay close attention to whatyou've said and watch for such conditions. 

By Golly, I think you may have Got It! 

-Carolyn


----------



## pamnock (Apr 20, 2004)

The only complaint I have about this awesome forumis the fact that I inadvertently overlook a number of posts.(and don't want to appear rude if someone has asked mesomething). Is there an option to choose for "unread new"posts? I chose the "recent" option, but I'm still overlookingconversations (for example, I didn't even see the thread about Buckuntil today).



Pam


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## Carolyn (Apr 20, 2004)

Hi Pam,

Good point. I go through the same thing. 

I'll write a note to the webmaster and see what we can do.

Thanks for the thought.

-Carolyn


----------



## pamnock (Apr 20, 2004)

I had the pleasure of meeting webmaster Danielle,her husband and adorable daughter Eva today. They recentlyrelocated to western Pennsylvania and stopped by for a visittoday. What a nice family  I finally met someonefluent in French (Danielle)that we will be able to turn to ifmy daughter becomes overwhelmed with her language studies 



Pam


----------



## Carolyn (Apr 20, 2004)

That's excellent, Pam! Danielle is definitely a sweetheart. I reallylike her. She was in the process of moving when this forum switchedover to the Wowbb company. Actually, it was the guy from the Wowbb company who works with Danielle that I wrote to and I sent Danielle a copy of it. Not thinking that she'd have the time or perhaps theknowledge of the software, I just thought I'd save her the step. 
That's great you guys met! I'm sure she found you to be as lovely as weall do here. Nice to know you have a new friend in the area, even if it it's terribly close by. 



Very Cool!

-Carolyn


----------



## Carolyn (Apr 27, 2004)

Mornin Pam! :dude:

This was the message I had gotten from the webmaster about the unread posts.

Hello Carolyn,

Theicons next totopics areyellow when thosetopics contain new posts and green when theyare not. I hope this helps.

Please letme know if you have any questions or comments.


-------------------

Also, Pam, I'm curious about something and wonderif you know the answer. Since the British culture seems tofeed their rabbits more forage than we suggest in America, I'mwondering if there is a difference in lifespan? Do you haveany idea or thoughts about that?


Another thing.Is it a common characteristic forPolish rabbit's ears to touch?AfterBucktook a look at Tucker's ears this weekend, he too thought it was thatthe shortness of thehair onhis ears was duetowhereTucker's earsrubtogether.


Thanks,
-Carolyn


----------



## pamnock (Apr 27, 2004)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> Mornin Pam! :dude:
> 
> This was the message I had gotten from the webmaster about the unread posts.
> 
> ...




Good morning Carolyn!

Even with the little yellow folders, I still seem to miss a lot ofposts : ( I liked the old rabbit web, where I couldchoose the option of having all the newest posts listed at the top andcould simply click through every single new post and know I wasn'tmissing any. Those were the "good old days" LOL

Diet and lifespan: Certainly obesity can shorten the lifespanof a rabbit by putting more stress on the body systems.However, genetics do play a major role in longevity. Rabbitsare a prey animal and do not have a very long natural lifespan.

In the Polish, it is desired that the ears touch together for thecomplete length of the ear. Shortness of hair on the ear canbe a genetic trait or simply due to the ears rubbing.Friction can lead to irritation of the tissue. This ears mayalso be more prone to problems. (An ear of good substance isdesired). It's also possible that the shape of his ears mayplay a role in how they rub together. Or, simply just thathe's getting up in years and the tissues are not as resilient.

Pam


----------



## Loz n Ebony (Apr 27, 2004)

Afternoon everyone!!!


----------



## Carolyn (May 3, 2004)

GreetingsPam!



I'm attaching 6 pictures: 3 of Calbert, Buck Jones'sdaughter's rescued rabbit; and Missy: Buck Jones's inhouserabbit. We were curious as to what you guess would be as totheir breeds. Thanks Pam!! Hope it's not too muchof a bother, but I know Buck would really be interested. Thefirst three are Calbert.

-Carolyn


----------



## Carolyn (May 3, 2004)

Calbert....


----------



## Carolyn (May 3, 2004)

Last one of Calbert...


----------



## Carolyn (May 3, 2004)

Here's Missy:


----------



## Carolyn (May 3, 2004)

Missy again...


----------



## Carolyn (May 3, 2004)

Last one of Missy...


----------



## pamnock (May 3, 2004)

Hi Carolyn,

I'm responding as you are posting, so there are only photos of Calbert so far 

His color is Magpie Harlequin. It's possible he's a mixbetween a number of breeds, as other breeds are often brought in toimprove the Harli type. Are Calbert's eyes blue?It's hard to tell from the photo. Blue eyes are not unusualin the Harli.

You can only imagine what a day it has been! "Cigar", ourvery first and very old Himalayan had testicular cancer, so I took himto the vet to be put down today before his condition got toobad. 

"Luceee" (Dwarf Hotot doe named after my daughter's good friend) was inlabor and I could feel the stuck baby (she had one deadbabylast night) -- so . . . I am now back from the vet, andLuceee is doing fine after some oxy and calcium shots to helpcontractions so she could pass the large, dead baby. You canonly imagine that she is now in the house and being very pampered 

Now, I've got to go catch up on cleaning and I'll check back later to view the rest of the photos.

Pam


----------



## pamnock (May 3, 2004)

Missy is a "frosty" Mini Lop Basically, the chinchilla color with the non-extension gene thrown ingiving the rabbit a "frosted" appearance to the coat.

Pam


----------



## Carolyn (May 3, 2004)

Wuups! Sorry!! I remembered that about Missy. Didn't mean to be redundant. 

Thanks Pam!

* * * * * * * * *

Boy, that's a heck of a day you've had so far on your first full dayhome! Poor Little Luceee. Good thingyouwere home to catch the problem.

I'm so sorry about Cigar. I couldn't think of a luckier placefor a rabbit to end up than in your hands. Being your firstand oldest Himalayan, that had to sting. You'll see thelittle one when it's your turn to enter Heaven. I can'timagine how many rabbits are going to jump on you in gratitude and lovewhen your time comes. Not only the rabbits that you've caredfor but all of our rabbits in the forums that you've helped andgenerously shared your gift of knowledge with. You're indeedan extremely special Lady.

I was thinking about you and Matthew and SandMan this morning and whatyou have ahead of you with that as well. Gosh, when it rains,it pours, ey?! 

Thanks again, Pam. 

-Carolyn


----------



## Buck Jones (May 3, 2004)

Thank you, Carolyn, for posting those pictures,and thank you, Pam, for those comments of identification. I dosincerely appreciate the efforts of both of you in this regard.

Gosh, Pam, you are getting socked right and left with traumatic eventsand circumstances. It is distressing to me when bad thingshappen to good people. We will continue to offer prayers foryour relief and thegraces to beabletodeal withthese most difficulttimes, in the mean time.

So sorry for all yourrecent losses and troubles.

Buck


----------



## pamnock (May 3, 2004)

*Buck Jones wrote:*


> Thank you, Carolyn, for posting those pictures, and thankyou, Pam, for those comments of identification. I do sincerelyappreciate the efforts of both of you in this regard.
> 
> Gosh, Pam, you are getting socked right and left with traumatic eventsand circumstances. It is distressing to me when bad thingshappen to good people. We will continue to offer prayers foryour relief and thegraces to beabletodeal withthese most difficulttimes, in the mean time.
> 
> ...




Thank you Buck. I count my blessings daily. Myproblems are trivial compared to the difficulties othersface. We are all indeed very lucky.

Pam


----------



## pamnock (May 3, 2004)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> I was thinking about you and Matthew and SandMan this morning and whatyou have ahead of you with that as well. Gosh, when it rains,it pours, ey?!
> 
> Thanks again, Pam.
> 
> -Carolyn


I did get the good news that a friend has a tiny Netherland Dwarf buckthat looks like "Sandman". Matthew and the bunny will get tomeet each other in a couple weeks and we'll see if things click betweenthe two of them.

Pam


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## Carolyn (May 3, 2004)

I hope the little one's personality is just like Sand Man. 

Do let us know when Sand Man's burial happens. I'd like to send a prayer, a kiss, and a balloon up to him.


-Carolyn


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## pamnock (May 3, 2004)

Hi Carolyn,

I was hoping to have the services sometime this week. My sonRyan worked so hard to make the nice cross to mark the graveand I would like Matthew to have "closure" before he gets the new bunny.

Pam


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## Carolyn (May 3, 2004)

Couldn't agree with you more.

Just a suggestion if I may? Get a balloon, and I will too, have Matthewhold it knowing that it will get to Sand Man and release it intoHeaven. Watch it until you can't see it anymore, and tell him it's onit's way to SandMan. He'll know that SandMan will get two balloons thatday, and who's to say he won't?

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (May 3, 2004)

Oh geeze Carolyn -- now you are making me cry 



Pam


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## Carolyn (May 3, 2004)

I do it for my Dad every year.




-Carolyn


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## pamnock (May 3, 2004)

I'm so sorry Carolyn -- what a nice way to remember your Dad.

Pam


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## Carolyn (May 3, 2004)

He's got a bunch of different colored balloons! 

Each year, one of my kisses gets to him.  

No sadness, Dear Heart. He'll give them back to me. In the meantime,he's got something to hold onto, and that's the only way I can get amessage to him in Heaven.


They're only a thought away, if not closer.

-Carolyn


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## BunnyMommy (May 4, 2004)

What a beautiful and sweet way of remembering and honoring our dearly departed loved ones.


----------



## Carolyn (May 4, 2004)

ThanksBunnyMommy.



It's hard to let theballoon go, but it's exciting when yousee it get so high.One of myfavoritepoems seems tofollow the idea. 

* * * * * * * *

I am standing on the seashore. A ship spreads her sails to the morningbreeze and starts for the ocean. I stand watching until she fades onthe horizon, and someone at my side says, "She is gone!"

Gone where? The loss of sight is in me, not in her. Just at the momentwhen someone says "She is gone," there are others who are watching hercoming. Other voices take up the glad shout, "Here she comes!" 

And _that_[/i] isdying.




-Anonymous


----------



## pamnock (May 4, 2004)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> * * * * * * * *
> 
> I am standing on the seashore. A ship spreads her sails to the morningbreeze and starts for the ocean. I stand watching until she fades onthe horizon, and someone at my side says, "She is gone!"
> 
> ...




That's so beautiful Carolyn,

Thank you for sharing it . . .

Pam


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## BunnyMommy (May 4, 2004)

Oh ... my ...goodness ... what a BEAUTIFUL andthought-provoking poem. I'm feeling a little full afterreading it. 

Thanks so much for sharing it with us. 

If you don't mind, I'm going to add it to my poetry collection.


----------



## Carolyn (May 4, 2004)

I'm glad you both liked it. I've writtenit in a lot of sympathy cards and always get a special comment about itafter people read it. 

Of course, BunnyMommy, Tucker and I would be honored that you saved it.

-Carolyn


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## Carolyn (May 4, 2004)

Pam?

Sherman (BunnyMommy's baby) has developed the sniffles again after being fine after taking the medication for 10 days. 

Can he live a long life if he remains on the medicine indefinitely? 

-Carolyn


----------



## pamnock (May 4, 2004)

Some medications can be used long term.I prefer to see at least a short interval of breaks from the medicationevery so often. 

I can't recall if Sherman hadblood tests or if a pathogen wasidentified. That helps to determine which medication would bemost effective.

However, there are times when noknown pathogen can be identified.

Pam


----------



## Carolyn (May 4, 2004)

Thanks Pam, I'll copy this and put it in the postthat BunnyMommy was following up the issue on. "It was calledLessons I've learned in taking care of a sick bunny." or somethingalong those lines.

-Carolyn


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## BunnyMommy (May 4, 2004)

Hi, ladies. Carolyn, thanks for looking into this for me, and Pam, thanks for providing an answer.

No, Sherman didn't have any blood tests the last time. He wasonly diagnosed symptomatically. That's why I'm anxious to gethim to the physician that I've set an appointment with thisweekend. He's very thorough and I'm certain will be running abattery of tests. 

The antibiotic that was prescribed for Sherman this last time was a10-day course of Baytril. It cleared him right up, but now,as I've said, the symptoms have returned.


----------



## pamnock (May 4, 2004)

Although VetRx isn't a cure, it can help to relieve the symptoms. (Vicks is just as effective).

Pam N.


----------



## BunnyMommy (May 4, 2004)

Oh, Pam, thanks for this tip! I'll look into this! 

Can VetRx be purchased locally?

Are you speaking of regular people Vick's?


----------



## pamnock (May 4, 2004)

VetRx can be purchased through most rabbit equipment suppliers.Yes, I was referring to Vicks for people 



Pam


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## crissie5000 (May 8, 2004)

hi guys sorry i have not been on for a while !


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## Buck Jones (May 8, 2004)

Well, welcome back!

Buck


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (May 8, 2004)

Welcome back Crissie!


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## Carolyn (May 14, 2004)

MorninPam,

This morning, I found out that Buck Jones' daughter can't take backCalbert. He's a very sweet rabbit and I'm seriouslyconsidering taking him in. 

My biggest concern is effecting Tucker's lifestyle. Calbertis a very mellow, loving, and sweet little guy. When Buck washere with him last month, Tucker and Calbert didn't seem to care onebit about each other. They'd go nose-to-nose smelling eachother through the cage. No boxing. For two males,Buck, the Mrs., and I were quite surprised. 

What is the likelihood that two males can live together in onehousehold happily? I know it's not often that two males getalong, but I'm wondering what your take on this would be. 

Thanks.

-Carolyn


----------



## pamnock (May 14, 2004)

Flip a coin Carolyn  

My brother had 2 intact bonded males thatnever fought. On the other hand, 2 altered males may fight.

I think it's a good sign that they go along during their visit,however, you may find a change in attitude once Calbert gets settled.

Calbert certainly couldn't go to a better home. I thinkyou'll be able to identify and head off any problems immediately.

Pam


----------



## BunnyMommy (May 14, 2004)

Oh, poor little Calbert!

You'rea doll for wanting to take him in, Carolyn.


----------



## Carolyn (May 14, 2004)

Calbert will be fine no matter what happens, I can assure you. 

Just don't want it to upset Tucker's lifeor personality too much. 

Right now, I'mleaning towardsa trialbasis. When Buck and the Mrs. bring the rabbits up for theParty, it might be a good time to see how things go at that time as tohow they'd get along. If Calbert and Tucker got into a fight,Tucker could get seriously hurt as Calbert's quite bigger. 

It really wouldn't be fair to Tucker if they were to really dislikeeach other over the long haul. Calbert's such a cool rabbitthough. He's cuddly and sweet and not half the troublemakermy little Tucker-Bucker is. Although, like Pamnock said, thatcould change as he gets settled in. 

-Carolyn


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## batbunny (May 14, 2004)

aww...how sweet! im still thinkingabout adopting a little girlfriend forbatman but im not surehow well he would get along with another bunny.(not to brag)hes very attached to me &amp;spoiled and whatnot...plushe seems very happy with it being justthe two of us. so idont know.:?


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## Carolyn (May 14, 2004)

Batbunny,

Having a girlfriend for Batman could change the dynamics of your relationship with him. 

* * * * * * * * *

Calbert and Tucker are both males and it's my hope that when they'reout together, they'll just ignore each other. If not, then itwon't work, but I'm willing to give it a try. Of coursethey'll be in separate cages. 

I'm going to give it a trial run if Buck agrees and see where it takes us.





I just really want to be fair to Tucker because he goes nuts if he'sgot to be in his cage when I'm home. If I have to dividetheir time for exercise, I'm afraid it won't work because it's not fairto Tucker and the way he's always lived his life with me. 

-Carolyn


----------



## MyBunnyLovesMe (May 14, 2004)

Tyson and Megan get along together like two peasin a pod  I really wish my mom would let me have him. If she can'tfind a home for him she says she might just let him free into the wild.And I'm not sure a domestic rabbit can do so well out on its own. SoI'm desperatly trying to find a home for little Tyson!


----------



## batbunny (May 14, 2004)

yea...if he was happywouldntmind that, as long as he still gave me cuddles. i just want him to beas happy as he possibly can be &amp; im not sure how he would feelabout another bunny.


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## Buck Jones (May 14, 2004)

Although there are domestic buns on record whoseem to have surpassed all odds and are surving in the wild in a fewareas in the US, it seems more than likely most would succumb quicklyto predators, automobiles, starvation. ticks, fleas,worms,etc.

I would try to discourage that line of thought, MyBunnyLovesMe. Euthanasia might be a better fate.

Buck


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## Carolyn (May 22, 2004)

Good Morning Dr. Pam,

Do rabbits pass gas?

-Carolyn


----------



## pamnock (May 22, 2004)

LOL Carolyn -- that's what my hubby calls me 



I'm no expert on flatulence, but as far as I am aware, rabbits do indeed "break wind".



Pam


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## batbunny (May 22, 2004)

i actually think that iveheard batman do it...a little rumble &amp; he jumped. i presumethats what it was...


----------



## Carolyn (May 22, 2004)

Thanks Doc! :dude: I knew you'd be able to tell us. 

I was going to ask if they 'expel.' That was the fancy word my dad usedto use. "Oooo, Excuse me. I just expelled!" But I just wanted to beclear so that everyone could understand. *laughs* 

* * * * * * *

Batbunny,

That's too funny that Batman jumped. As if he didn't know it wascoming! Always trying to get away with something, that little guy. Givehim a squeeze for me.

I have to go play my CD now. You may not know the song, but this posthas me thinking about it now after you mentioned your experience withBatman.

"I feel the earth move under my feet..."

-Carolyn


----------



## batbunny (May 22, 2004)

hahaha...maybe he was tryingto pass it off as an "oh my-what was that?" ill give him some kissesfor ya-hes still being funny about being picked up, do you think thathes still a bit sore?


----------



## Carolyn (May 22, 2004)

Hi Batbunny,

I have a very strong suspicion that he was trying to pass it off as if it wasn't him that did that dirty act.

There's certainly a good chance of him still being soar. It takes a couple of weeks for their hormones to calm down. 

Tucker never really did like being held, even after the operation. Hetolerates it pretty well now, but I rarely hold him because I know he'drather play out his independence as much as he can. Some rabbits dolike it, some hate it, some will deal with it. It's hard to predict ifhe'll go along with it in the future or not. Keep us posted.

Yes, please do give that BatMan a big cuddle for me. He's the sweetest.

-Carolyn


----------



## Carolyn (May 22, 2004)

Hi Batbunny,

I have a very strong suspicion that he was trying to pass it off as if it wasn't him that did that dirty act.

There's certainly a good chance of him still being soar. It takes a couple of weeks for their hormones to calm down. 

Tucker never really did like being held, even after the operation. Hetolerates it pretty well now, but I rarely hold him because I know he'drather play out his independence as much as he can. Some rabbits dolike it, some hate it, some will deal with it. It's hard to predict ifhe'll go along with it in the future or not. Keep us posted.

Yes, please do give that BatMan a big cuddle for me. He's the sweetest.

-Carolyn


----------



## batbunny (May 23, 2004)

lol-im sure if he could talk,hed blame it on me! i figured he might still be a bit tender-hell comeup to me &amp; climb in my lap or dance around my feet to holdhim, but he does not want to be picked up. i have noticedthough, thathe doesnt want to be held as much. hed muchrather have me come crawl to him on the floor for cuddles.itwas so cute this morning-i let him out @ 6am &amp; went back to bedfor a little while. when i woke up @ 720, he was lying in bed with me,nuzzled in my arm...i almost started crying, it was so sweet!


----------



## BunnyMommy (May 26, 2004)

Pam, is it all right to give bunny Quaker Oats oatmeal (I have some of the one-minute kind here)?

Thanks.


----------



## pamnock (May 26, 2004)

*BunnyMommy wrote:*


> Pam, is it all right to give bunny Quaker Oatsoatmeal (I have some of the one-minute kind here)?
> 
> Thanks.


That's fine. Some rabbits even enjoy it cooked, as our little hamster does 

Pam


----------



## BunnyMommy (May 26, 2004)

Thanks so much!


----------



## Carolyn (May 26, 2004)

Hi Pam,

Are you aware of any sites that have general information for flying petrabbits from one country into another? I'm particularlycurious about Cher's situation going from China into Canada andwondered if you might shed some light on the subject. She hadwritten me the following note when I had asked her about it.

"OH MY, going home is going to be quite the ordeal...I called ChinaAirlines (well had my taiwanese friend do it actually) and asked howmuch extra I would have to pay to take them on as carry-on. THEY onlyallow dogs, cats and birds......needless to say I wrote them a nastyemail asking them to explain that mentality, and how I go about gettinga refund or a transfer to an airline that does not have such aridiculous policy (needless to say I have not heard back from them)-sonow I am in a bid of a bind. I am not sooooooo worried, I will figuresomething out. Since I can fly them through other airlines, just notwith me I wonder if that flight restriction during thesummer months is the US only, since most of the airlines here toCanadawill allow them ??? The cargo is temperature controlledand a lot of them say no flying during the WINTER months." 


-Carolyn


----------



## pamnock (May 26, 2004)

Many of the airlines will tell you one thing overthe phone, and another once you get to the airline. It canbecome a nightmare trying to travel internationally withpets. A professional pet shipper might be a betteroption. They make all the arrangements, and you just show upwith your pet and the required paperwork. One person had a problemrecently (with international shipping) because she didn't have thescientific name of the rabbits on the shipping crate.

As far as I knew, there is no quarantine period for rabbits flying intothe US or Canada. Most of the policies make no sense --perhaps we are better off just calling the rabbits "cats".

It's also important to be certain you can get them back "into" the country.



Pam


----------



## pamnock (May 26, 2004)

Bob Whitman has shipped rabbits extensivelyinternationally. He would be a good place to start forinfo.(He is also a licensed shipper). He is a wellrespected ARBA member, rabbitbreeder and historian.

Here's his website http://www.rarebitsandpieces.com/shipping.htm

(Lots of neat rare breeds -- check it out!)

Pam


----------



## Carolyn (May 26, 2004)

Wow! Excellent, Pam! Thanks. Cher will be psyched to see it, as will I.

Thanks again!

-Carolyn


----------



## BunnyMommy (May 26, 2004)

I know that I wasn't in this conversation... ... but this info is VERY helpful! I'll bepassing it on to a friend who may be needing it in the near future.

Thanks, Pam! You're a real jewel.


----------



## BunnyMommy (May 26, 2004)

On another note, Pam, I gave Sherman abouta tablespoon of the Quaker Oats oatmeal and good GRAVY!:shock: I thought that this little bunny loved raisins andcraisins!!!!! ... He just about ate my hand off trying to getat that oatmeal and then did a little jig when it was allgone! lol!

Who "woulda thunk" it?


----------



## pamnock (May 26, 2004)

*BunnyMommy wrote:*


> On another note, Pam, I gave Sherman about atablespoon of the Quaker Oats oatmeal and good GRAVY!:shock: I thought that this little bunny loved raisins andcraisins!!!!! ... He just about ate my hand off trying to getat that oatmeal and then did a little jig when it was allgone! lol!
> 
> Who "woulda thunk" it?




LOL Our bunnies love the steam rolled oats also -- I buy it in 50# bags!



Pam


----------



## batbunny (May 26, 2004)

hmm-i knew bunnies likedoats-but _oatmeal_? well now that i think about it, batman willeat pretty much anything. you guys shouldve seen him begging for mylucky charms last night.


----------



## Carolyn (Jun 7, 2004)

Greetings Friend,

A couple of questions. 

Fauna is a 4.5 year old Holland Lop who was pretty much neglected forthe 4.5 years of her life. She's come to me through Buck Jones.

She's not been spayed, but you'd never know it by her beautifulpersonality. Is it too late to consider spaying her? I know she's oldand the anesthesia is a big risk, but I didn't think it'd hurt to askyour opinion. She seems to be in fairly good health, but it's hard tosay at this point as Buck's only had her for 2 weeks. 

Second question: She came to us with a bit of crust in the frontcorners of her eyes. It's like little balls of a sandy grit. The skinis very pink and dry, and hair isn't growing around it. I put a drop ofVitamin E Oil on both patches of pink yesterday, and the one eye looksa little bit better today. Any ideas of what this could be? Age? Diet?Infection?

I'll take her to the vet next week or so just to get checked out, but thought I'd at least pose these questions to you. 

Thanks for taking the time to answer and help me out, Pam. I've missedtalking to you these past few days, but you were in the forefront ofour conversations about rabbits and their history and healthcare. 

Tucker has had quite the party and it continues. 

Hope all is well with you and yours. 

-Carolyn


----------



## pamnock (Jun 7, 2004)

Hi Carolyn!

Cograts on your new baby!!!

Most purebred Hollands don't live past 6 years of age, so in myopinion, would be a factor if considering spaying. On theother hand, a large percentage of does have developed uterine tumors byher age, so I would have the palpate her uterus to see if there are anyabnormalities noted.

The crusty eyes could be due to any number of factors includingbacterial. You can consult with the vet, and may want toconsider Baytril if he thinks the eye problem warrants antibiotictreatment. An oral antibiotic as well as topical seems to bemore effective in some cases.

Pam


----------



## Carolyn (Jun 7, 2004)

Thanks for the info, Pam. Is the eye issue contagious?

-Carolyn


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## Cher (Jun 7, 2004)

I was always going over this thread since Ithought it was of a personal nature to Pam-WELL...Iapologize

forLO and BEHOLD there is my note with some great advice and no responsefrom me! So with that in mind, thank-you Pam for your adviceandthat website-I wrote him an email (as didJezebeland Jade's AuntieCarolyn

...seemsbetween allof us, we will find some way-think I can get em onboard as cats? hmmmmmm)

Thankyou again---------&gt;

Cher


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## pamnock (Jun 7, 2004)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> Thanks for the info, Pam. Is the eye issue contagious?
> 
> -Carolyn




It would depend on the pathogen. Could be anything fromirritated glands (not contagious), to teeth problems, bacterialinfection or fungus. The older rabbits seem more prone to"weepy eye" and non-specific rhinitis, so it can be hard to determinethe correct course of treatment. My friend had good luckclearing up similar symptoms using Baytril pills and then Tetracyclinein the water. (Consult with vet first). The vet may also wantto do a fungal culture.

Pam


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## Carolyn (Jun 7, 2004)

I'll certainly take your notes with me, Dr. Pam. 

It's not really weepy eye, it's more of dry eye in the corner. One eyelooks like it has a white head on the corner of the eye. Buck pointedout that there's no puss and thing draining from it, which we thoughtbetter in the area of being much hard to the others. 

I have a 4:10 p.m. visit at the vets tomorrow for her. 

Buck's had this little girl with his other rabbits for 2 weeks. Theyhave had no problems healthwise, so hopefully, if something was to becontagious, it would've showed up by now or symptoms would start tohave come to the surface.

Thank you dearly for your quick responses and educated help.

-Carolyn


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## Carolyn (Jun 8, 2004)

Good News, Pam! :dude:

The vet said:

Fauna has conjunctivitus that was brought on by an allergy irritation.She's got a mild case of it and I'm now giving her Neobacimyx-H twice aday for a week. 

She's not eating much, probably due to moving around. Vet said herbelly felt very empty. I'm measuring her food and when asked if Ishould give her some NutriCal, Doc said yes. 

She palpated the uterus and felt no abnormalities, so she's clear of tumors at this point. 

Teeth are good, all is well. 

Thanks so much for helping me out. 

And I didn't go broke for the visit either.  

Fauna was neglected for 4.5 years. Don't know if I told you that ornot, but she'd face the corner of the cage. She doesn't know whattreats or toys are, but she's learning quickly. Buck had her litterboxtrained in one day; and she's been snuggling up to her little stuffedlamb since she got here. You should've seen her beat up on that lambtoday at the doctor's office...Oh My!! :shock: 

When she got home, she gave me a loud THUMP when I put her in her cage, and did it again after I gave her the ointment. 

It's great to see her showing her assertiveness. She was so docile andremoved psychologically that any attitude is a welcomed reward.

(Sure hope Tucker didn't see that!)

xo,
-C


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## Carolyn (Jun 8, 2004)

P.S. The form of conjunctivitis that Fauna has is allergy induced. The vet doesn't believe it's a danger to the other rabbits.


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## pamnock (Jun 8, 2004)

Very glad to hear the good news!!!!!!However, I've often wondered why the pampered pets are so prone toillness, yet the neglected ones are so darn tough???



Pam


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## Carolyn (Jun 8, 2004)

pamnock wrote:


> Very glad to hear the good news!!!!!!? However, I've oftenwondered why the pampered pets are so prone to illness, yet theneglected ones are so darn tough???
> 
> ?
> 
> Pam



Ya got me, Pam! 

Fauna's exam couldn't have been more positive. Heartbeat's fine, feetare fine, no issues of mites, no tumors, mild case of conjunctivitisdue to allergies, 6.4 lbs., alert, aware, nose looks clear, ears havesome flakes, but Doc cleaned them, eyes clear, only thing to watch foris her appetite. 

I'm concerned on how to get her to eat, but I'll work on it.

Go Figure.

-Carolyn


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## BunnyMommy (Jun 8, 2004)

* sticking my nose in again *

Carolyn, so glad to hear that Fauna got a good report! We were rooting for her!!!

Tell my new little "niece" that I said welcome to the family!


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## Carolyn (Jun 8, 2004)

PLEASE, BunnyMommy, stick you're nose in any time!

You wouldn't believe the crush Fauna has on Tucker. Tonight she was inher psychological cocoon. I tried to let her out, but she wouldn'tcome. She wasn't even looking at Tucker, which is unusual.

She stares at him all the time, for hours. Her cage is next to his. Hesits in his Royal pose and lets her look on without a glimpse her way.

When she came home from the vets, she regressed. Tonight when I let himout after she wouldn't come, he circled around her for at least 1/2hour. He was so worried about her. Normally, he's always near me orunder his rocking chair. 

He gave up and went under his rocking chair and crashed. I went overand opened the door and just talked to her for about 20 minutes. Didn'ttry to pet her, just talked. After I closed the door, certain that Ididn't help her, she turned around and just stared into Tucker's cage,searching for him.

Ever since, she's been facing out, not in the corner as she used to do.As soon as he's back in his hotel, she'll continue her crush, but I'mso encouraged that she's back to looking at him. She's getting over theday. Of course I went over and gave her pats and she melted like butta.



I have a great vet, Pamnock, Buck, and you guys, so no worries. 

All is Well.

-Carolyn


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## BunnyMommy (Jun 8, 2004)

Oh, I'm so glad that you're making progress with her!!! It must be such a rewarding feeling. 

I'm sure that His Majesty, Prince Tucker, is loving theadoration of his new subject too. Must be a real boost to hisego! 

Please keep us posted with updates on her progress. Iknow it's going to be a real challenge to "socialize" her, but I feelcertain that with your kind heart and compassionate spirit that you'remore than up for the challenge.


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## 2bunmom (Jun 8, 2004)

Carolyn, Congrats on your newbaby.

So glad to hear that she got a good check up. How is Tuckerdoing with a new rabbit in the house? I just saw the picturesof Calbert! He looks just like my little manTrouble! I just found out that he was a HarlequinwhenI got my new book from the Tractor Supplystore. I also had been skipping this threadbecauseI thought that it was personal to Pam. Soglad I decided to check things out here. I would have missedyour good news and I would have missed the pictures of Missy andCalbert. Trouble's personality sounds very similar toCalbert's. He is such a sweet humble guy but he can get intothings when you are not looking. Those short little frontlegs and that little round face get me everytime.Oh, those rabbits get under your skin don'tthey. lol  Talk to you soon. Beckie


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## Carolyn (Jun 8, 2004)

Dearest Beckie,


Pamnock would be bummed if you felt that this was only her post to reply. It's not at all, Dear Heart. 

Thanks so much for your sweetest reply. My mom says this place lookslike a pet store, but NO RABBITS FOR SALE will soon be adorning my door.

Every One is an absolute Love. 

Missy, the rabbit in Buck Jones's avatar is Definitely the biggest Trouble Bubble!!! ATT-IT-TUDE and Size!

I wonder how many I'll give back to Buck when he comes for the pick-up. Think I'll say I moved, but don't tell him.



-Carolyn


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## rabbitgirl (Jun 8, 2004)

*Way to go Pam! My brothers and I werehomeschooled all the way through. I did Christian Liberty in HS, andthey do the ACE curriculum. We homeschooled for much the same reasons.It's the best!*

*And yes, I gave bunny lectures too! lol *

*Rose*



*pamnock wrote: *


> Homeschooling is certainly not for everyone, and I have seen many failures and disasters.
> 
> I had reservations about even attempting it -- who would ever thinkyour children could learn more at home??? I couldgo on forever about the benefits that it has had for our family, notonly educationally, but emotionally and spiritually. It iscertainly an amazing lifestyle.
> 
> ...


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## BunnyMommy (Jun 8, 2004)

*rabbitgirl wrote:*


> *Way to go Pam! My brothers and I were homeschooled allthe way through. I did Christian Liberty in HS, and they do the ACEcurriculum. We homeschooled for much the same reasons. It's thebest!*
> 
> *And yes, I gave bunny lectures too! lol *
> 
> ...


I truly believe that homeschooling is the way to go.If my husband and I had any children it's the way that I would approachtheir education.


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## 2bunmom (Jun 8, 2004)

OH MY,I didn't realize that you hadthem all !!!! :shock: No wonder your mom's thinking petstore! lol Those Bunnytudes can be a problem attimes! Don't get them all mad or scared!! Therewould be a whole lot of thumping going on! I have oftenthought thatI want more rabbits, but my problem is what to dowith them whileI go out of town. The 2thatI have go to the vet andI almost need a truckto haul the cages food and etc. Must be what it is like whenyou take human children to grandmas or thebabysitter! Beckie


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## BunnyMommy (Jun 8, 2004)

*Carolyn wrote:*


> GreetingsPam!
> 
> 
> 
> ...





>


How _in the world_ did I miss this post?!!! I've been _waiting_ for pictures of Calbert! 

What an ABSOLUTE SWEETIE!!!

Carolyn, I may have to take this one away from you! 

I need to go back through this entire thread to read and see what I've been missing! :?


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## dajeti2 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Wow! I've been missing alot.I thought this post was just for Pam. I accidently clicked on it and WOWW. *

*Pam I think you are an absolutely amazing person. I know I alwaysreead your replies because I know I will learn something.*

*Carolyn, you are so kind hearted. I can't think of a better home forCalbert. If it doesn't work out you can always send him my way lol.*

*Buck, you are such a wonderful person. I have nothing but admiration for you.*

*To everyone else here, you all are like family. Love reading everyone's posts.*

*Tina*


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## pamnock (Jun 9, 2004)

*dajeti2 wrote:*


> *Wow! I've been missing alot.I thought this post was justfor Pam. I accidently clicked on it and WOWW. *
> 
> *Pam I think you are an absolutely amazing person. I know I alwaysreead your replies because I know I will learn something.*




Thank you for the kind words  This thread turnedinto more of a "general topic" discussion and is for everyone.



Pam


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## Buck Jones (Jun 9, 2004)

Isn't Carolyn a sweetheart? When weasked her to bunny sit for the 20 days we are in California, she notonly said, yes, but she kindly volunteered to care for them duringthe 10 days prior to our departure, so we would not have tomake the 190 mile round trip to Connecticutonce again beforeleaving.

So, she went from one bun to four buns in about as manyminutes! Turns out little Fauna needed veterinary carealready, which has already caused us some minor embarassment, but atleast we know the buns are all getting the best possible care pet ownercould wish for while under Carolyn's watch.

If "the" Tucker permits, Calbert, the cool California bunny(found in aplastic crate on Hollywood Bvld) and/or Fauna(the neglected, nowrehabbing), little Holland Lop doe, may remain at the scenichome of our illustrious moderator. Fauna does seem to besmitten with Tucker Bucker'smasculine appearance and his NewEngland staid behavior...in front of visiting does, that is.

The Mini Lop, Missy, whom we've spent tons of money on for gastricsurgery, definitely has a round trip ticket home, heretoNJ. She brings a new meaning to the concept of a, "busybunny,"which one might infer from the tone of some of thecomments posted by Carolyn.

Would that we all had bunny friends, like Carolyn, near by so we couldall mutally care for our buns whenever vacation times cameup. Maybe, as the membership grows within the forum, a bunnysitting registry could be set up for those willing to bunny sit forothers in the expectation of reciprocal care when the situationpresents itself? I, for one, would be the first to volunteerfor such a service here in the NJ/NY metropolitan area. I dobelieve we all get a "feel" for the care fellow posters give their bunsfrom comments made on the forum, and I suspect most people here wouldhave my confidence that my buns would be safe under their care.

Buck


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## pamnock (Jun 9, 2004)

I've never known anyone who would give so much of themself for others -- Carolyn sets an example for others to strive for 

Pam


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## BunnyMommy (Jun 9, 2004)

That's so true, Pam ... so true.

Carolyn is amazing.


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## dajeti2 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Buck, I couldn't agree more. I too would bemore than happy to watch a bunny or two or three lol. The more themerrier. All kidding aside I think that is an awesome idea. I for onewill be more than willing to bunny sit.*

*Tina*


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## Carolyn (Sep 23, 2005)

Dear Judge,

Cali's ticking is so much darker than the Sandies I saw at the last show. 

When I blow on Cali's fur it looks, to me, like it goes from blue, to white, to fawn to black.

What distinguishes a Sandy from a Fawn? Does ticking count?

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Sep 23, 2005)

Hi Carolyn  

Fawn is actually the "non-extension" version of Sandy. TheSandy is dominant full extension gene "E", where the Fawn isnon-extension recessive"ee". The non-extension genelimits the extension of color on the coat, reducing the Sandy to a muchlighter fawn.

The base of the Sandy's coat (near the skin) is slate blue, where thefawn is white/cream near the skin. The ticking on the topcoat of the Sandy should not be so dark as to completely cover thereddish intermediate band. Ticking on the Fawns is notdesired.

There is a very interesting article in the most recent issue of ARBA'sDomestic Rabbits on how to successfully cross Fawns to SandyFlemishto improve the size and color of the Sandies.



Pam


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## Carolyn (Sep 24, 2005)

Thanks for the lesson, Pam! :hug:

When I was talking to one of the Flemish breeders about Cali's ticking,he got so excited when he heard of Cali's color. He and 2 other Flemishbreeders were so bummed when I had told them she was spayed. They gaveme the headshake. :no:

No doubt, it doesn't take over. As a matter of fact, it wasn't until Ihad posted pictures of her on the board that others started commentinghow dark she had gotten that I realized that the ticking was reallysetting in. 

When I had seen pictures of her when she was just a babe and before Ihad adopted her, I thought she was a Fawn. She has more Fawn in herbackground than she does Sandy. The ticking on the rabbits that were atthe show was so subtle and some where just shy of her age. Just foundit surprising that my girl's coat was quite different from theirs.Seeing their excitement made me question what the Standard is.

Thanks again for the explanation. It's very interesting. 

onder:

-Carolyn


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