# Doe giving birth right now.



## kirstin (Oct 6, 2010)

My8 month old Holland Lop, Kaira, just gave birth to what I think is a fetal giant. It's about 4 inches long and it's dead. She's still hunched over in her cage. I looked on her vaginal area, and there's something else coming out, but it doesn't look much like a baby... I really hope this wasn't the only baby she had.  Ugh. I hope she'll be okay.

And advice??


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## tonyshuman (Oct 6, 2010)

Hi, best responses will be in the Rabbitry section right now. I can tell you that an old breeders' remedy to get labor going is to give the doe a Tums tablet--the calcium can stimulate contractions if they aren't happening correctly.


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## RAL Rabbitry (Oct 6, 2010)

Have you palped the doe to see if there are any more babies in her? If there are you will be able to feel them. It could be a placenta but I doubt it they are pretty small.

It could be another fetal giant if she is hunched over and pushing that hard. Ususally when a doe kindles they come right out in a matter of a few minutes and the placenta is usually attached to the sack with the kit. If it is another fetal giant she may need a vet to assist with the delivery. I wouldn't let her push too long.


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## kirstin (Oct 6, 2010)

It's a placenta. It's kinda big. Like an inch or so. I'll try to palpate her, just am afraid of hurting the poor thing.


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## BlueGiants (Oct 6, 2010)

Did the placenta come out? Hollands are notorious for having birthing difficulties. Is this her first litter? Was she "on time" with the kindling? Was the buck much bigger than her?

You can also give her raspberry leaves if you have any. It helps the uterine horns contract and expel anything left over.

How is she now?


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## RAL Rabbitry (Oct 6, 2010)

I would try but be fairly gentle. If there is another one in there that is big she may have a harder time with this one as her calcium and oxytocin levels might be lower after pushing that big kit out. She may need oral calcium or oxytocin from a vet.


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## kirstin (Oct 6, 2010)

This is her second litter, and it's day 31. The buck was maybe a tiny bit bigger than her, but just about the same size. The placenta came out, and I'm pretty sure she ate it because it's gone. 

Just seems to still be straining and still feels slightly heavy but it's hard to tell. I tried offering her tums and she didn't want them. 

Ehhh. 

She had like 3 or 4 fetal giants last time. I hope this isn't genetic...


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## Jaded (Oct 6, 2010)

Any more babies?
This is her second litter of fetal giants right?


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## kirstin (Oct 6, 2010)

Yes, this is the second one. And more babies yet... but I dunno. She may be having more.


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## Jaded (Oct 6, 2010)

How is she? does she look like shes in pain?


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## pamnock (Oct 6, 2010)

Can you gently palpate her? Another kit would feel rather hard and round. I agree with RAL rabbitry - if the doe remains hunched over and continues to push, she needs to be taken to a vet.


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## kirstin (Oct 6, 2010)

I called a vet about half an hour ago and she said not to worry just yet and to give her sugar water to try and give her more energy.


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## kirstin (Oct 6, 2010)

Here's the fetal giant...


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## Pipp (Oct 6, 2010)

Was she a rabbit-savvy vet? 

Rabbits give birth quickly, prolonged labor is a sign of distress. 


sas


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## kirstin (Oct 6, 2010)

She's worked with rabbits her life and specializes in them... so I'd say she's rabbit savvy. 

I'm so confused.


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## kirstin (Oct 6, 2010)

her whole life*


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## Pipp (Oct 6, 2010)

In that case, as long as she's going to be available if you do need her, I'd trust the vet. 


sas :clover:


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## kirstin (Oct 6, 2010)

Sas..?


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## BlueGiants (Oct 6, 2010)

Any changes?


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## kirstin (Oct 6, 2010)

I said a prayer everyone... I bet it will all be okay.  God is watching out for her.

ray:


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## Jaded (Oct 6, 2010)

Kirstin, any more babies?


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## mistyjr (Oct 6, 2010)

ray: I hope the best! Updates is always nice to know what is going on with her?


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Oct 6, 2010)

I agree with what has already been said, give her a little time to herself to get the kits out. But if it goes on until tomorrow, maybe get ahold of the vet.

Some does just don't handle motherhood well, she may be one to retire as a breeding doe after this.


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## BlueGiants (Oct 7, 2010)

How is she this morning? Any more babies?Hope she is OK...ray:


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## Bunny parents (Oct 7, 2010)

ray: Any update ?


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## kirstin (Oct 7, 2010)

Hey all, she popped out another fetal giant this morning. She didn't put it in the nestbox this time. She must've known it was dead anyways.

I'm pretty sure she's done. I palpated her and felt nothing but what's supposed to be the contents of her stomach. I'm leaving the nest box in for the day, just in case. 

I'm just glad that she's okay. I'll rebreed her in a couple days. Twice isn't quite enough to know if this is genetic or not. What's odd is that I got both of these rabbits (the buck and doe) from a lady that breeds, and she told me that she's delt very little with fetal giants. They aren't closely related. They have the same grandfather, but I don't think that's enough to cause genetic problems. I also was careful not to overfeed her this time, and I made sure she was bred twice on the same day to produce more eggs. 

What do you guys think I should do?


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## BlueGiants (Oct 7, 2010)

I'm glad to hear she is OK. 

It could still be a genetic issue... not related to how close they are or aren't... Or it may not be a genetic issueat all, it could be an individual problem with her... she may not be able to carry a normal pregnancy. She may just have a propensity towardslarge babies that can't be born alive.

My personal opinion... If I had 2 breedings with the same results, I would not breed her again. But you know the risks, only you can decide it it's worth it or not.


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Oct 7, 2010)

I agree with blue giants.... if the exact same thing has happened twice I would not use her for breeding. Its an awful big risk on her life, and no sense in doing that. And if you do rebreed her I'd give her some time. It sounds like she just struggled pretty hard with the two she did have and would need a rest.


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## Nancy McClelland (Oct 7, 2010)

ray:


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## jubidyjub (Oct 7, 2010)

I would go with the three strikes and your out policy. Try one more time, and if the same thing happens, than you should find a new doe. You've picked a hard breed for both competing and breeding.


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## Jaded (Oct 7, 2010)

updates?


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## AquaticRex (Oct 7, 2010)

i'd say try again, but AFTER a break for her. and try to find a rabbit savvy vet that can come to your house or thats open at all times to help with it this time. maybe the problem is that they aren't getting out fast enough and they're suffocating? i'm not a breeder, its just a guess lol


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## polly (Oct 7, 2010)

I would try breeding her again but with a different buck!
I see this a lot with my netherlands and I can have a doe have problems with one buck and be absolutely fine with another buck of the same colour


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## kirstin (Oct 7, 2010)

I'll try one last time. I have a feeling that it'll work this time. If it doesn't I'll find a new doe. She was perfectly fine today. She was whizzing all over the place! 

Yes.. Hollands are difficult to breed. But I love the challenge. Just thoroughly cleaned all their cages and it smells fresh in there!


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## CalifornianKit (Oct 7, 2010)

Im glad your still enthusiastic about it. I would hate to hear that you would give up on her and decide not to breed rabbits =)


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## akane (Oct 7, 2010)

I'd at least try breeding her to a different buck. Could just be that those particular 2 don't mix well. We went through this with a horse throwing over sized foals and stupidly kept trying with the same stud. Eventually we nearly lost the mare when the foal got stuck and kicked through her uterus. We sold the mare saying to only breed her to smaller studs and the next person had no problems. I learned my lesson. Don't repeat the exact same breeding expecting a different result unless you are willing to lose the female in the attempt.


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## Brearune (Oct 8, 2010)

But please make sure to give her a little break! It must be stressful for her. Give her some time to just enjoy.  Good luck with the one more! Keep us updated!! I agree to try another buck, though.


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## kirstin (Oct 8, 2010)

How long of a break should I give her before rebreeding?

And I would try but Blizzard is the only buck I have, unfortunately. :/


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## kirstin (Oct 8, 2010)

I definitely don't want Kaira to become unhealthy. She's really special to me, and I wouldn't give her up for the world. She loves to just cuddle in my arms and lick my hand. She's such a cutie.

I just feel that twice isn't enough to give up on her just yet. There was one successful kit the first litter, so who knows? I'll try one more time, and I'll give her a break.

We shall see what happens. 

Here she is. ^^


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## Happi Bun (Oct 8, 2010)

I'm glad she didn't die and surprised you are still going to try again, with the same buck even.

JMHO


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Oct 8, 2010)

I assume you're breeding to show rabbits? I would get some show stock and retire that doe. Keep her as a pet and I wouldn't breed her again, especially to that same buck. Theres millions of rabbits out there get other brood does that have easier births.


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## kirstin (Oct 8, 2010)

n


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## jubidyjub (Oct 8, 2010)

Find a breeder and pay a stud fee to us a different buck. Anderson's right, if it doesn't work the third time, you should find new stock.


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## Purple Mountain Rabbitry (Oct 8, 2010)

*kirstin wrote: *


> How long of a break should I give her before rebreeding?
> 
> And I would try but Blizzard is the only buck I have, unfortunately. :/



With the problems she had birthing she needs time to heal and recooperate. she may be feeling better but that does not mean she is healed. My grandmother told me that if I ever have a doe that produces fetal giants to give them 3 months rest and switch bucks even if I have to pay a breeding fee. she used to have over 200 rabbits at least 150 of those being does, so I trust her. 

So I would give her 3 months rest to make sure she is completely healed and then find a breeder that has a smaller buck.

Crystal


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## akane (Oct 8, 2010)

> Find a breeder and pay a stud fee to us a different buck.


I was thinking along those lines and I'd like to do this with my 2 champagne does so I bring in new blood without having to buy and house yet another buck that I only want to use for one generation. If that breeding works you could keep a doe or 2 and try them with your buck so you can retire the current doe. With all her difficulties you probably don't want to spread her genetics far and wide with multiple litters.


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