# 2008 Presidential Vote



## BSAR (Nov 4, 2008)

Is anyone watching the news? I am. My history teacher is a total politic and says we should watch it and gather newsclippings and such to save since we are witnissing a part of history. Tomorrow hopefully I can get a paper. 

So I am watching it and so far McCain is winning. He has like 16 electoral votes and Obama has 3! It is going to bea interesting night.

By the way, I don't know who I want to win. I sorta want Obamabut I was Palin as VicePresident. I am too young to vote though so it doesn't really matter my opinion.


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## BSAR (Nov 4, 2008)

Wow! The numbers now are:

Obama 102

McCain 34

They shot up really quickly! The guy on the channel that I am watching said the winner won't be announced until they have gone over 270 votes.


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## LadyBug (Nov 4, 2008)

BSAR* wrote: *


> So I am watching it and so far McCain is winning. He has like 16 electoral votes and Obama has 3! It is going to bea interesting night.


arty:



*BSAR wrote: *


> Wow! The numbers now are:
> 
> Obama 102
> 
> ...



:nerves1:cry2:cry4:



done being (kinda) funny. i really hope McCain wins! Emily's gotten into it, she made a vote mccain sign last night with me(it was her idea)and she made a sticker this morning:thumbup.


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## Happi Bun (Nov 4, 2008)

:woohoo

*Go Obama!*


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## BSAR (Nov 4, 2008)

Now its:

Obama 102

McCain 49

He is getting back up there.


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## LadyBug (Nov 4, 2008)

*BSAR wrote: *


> Now its:
> 
> Obama 102
> 
> ...


arty0002:arty:arty0002:


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## lalena2148 (Nov 4, 2008)

*Happi Bun wrote: *


> :woohoo
> 
> *Go Obama!*


Agreed! 

arty::USA:


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## NorthernAutumn (Nov 4, 2008)

Well guys and gals, McCain just lost Ohio...
207 to 138 right now for Obama....


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## swanlake (Nov 5, 2008)

looks like we have our first african american president!


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## undergunfire (Nov 5, 2008)

*swanlake wrote: *


> looks like we have our first african american president!



WOOOO HOOOOO! This is AWESOME news :biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:!!!!


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## BSAR (Nov 5, 2008)

:great:


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## NorthernAutumn (Nov 5, 2008)

I just finished watching John McCain's speech. What a gracious speech, done by an incredibly honest man. I was crying for him. 
Y'know, if this was 4 years ago and he was running, he would have got in.
He would have made a very good president... However, after 8 years of Bush, I personally feel that voters were accomplishing two things:
1) Booting Bush out
2) Voting a black man with a vision into the Oval Office.

If Obama was not in the picture period, McCain would have won. He would have done a good job.
However, a new economist like Obama is the right one to lead America through her financial quagmire. He is bringing together people of all races in a positive way.

Was just talking with my dad. He feels that if the markets didn't tank when they did, McCain might have won.

Two good men. Two good campaigns. One America united, McCain and Obama working together.
All good!

Oooh... Obama's speech is going to start very soon


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## Happi Bun (Nov 5, 2008)

I swear every time Obama makes a speech I feel like I can do anything! 

:USAflagwaving:


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## HoneyPot (Nov 5, 2008)

Oh thank the Lord there is a Democrat in the White House again. Now maybethey can start working to pull America out of the dumps that Bush put it in. Eight years of non-progressive, short-sightedness has stalled world progress so much - can't wait to see what happens in the next 4 years. 

inkbouce:

Now ... if only Canada had gotten it's act together too. Ah well.

Nad


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## Pet_Bunny (Nov 5, 2008)

I'm surprised it was over so soon.


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## LedaHartwood (Nov 5, 2008)

I'm a little glad that we won't have Palin in the white house. She advocates the killing of wolves and bears. She and her friend shot 14 wolf pups.


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## mouse_chalk (Nov 5, 2008)

Wow!!

We have the privilege of being here in the US for election day to watch it all unfold, and it's been very exciting. There is never even half the coverage etc in the UK as there is here. We watched the news coverage in our hotel room late afternoon/early evening, then went out to dinner at about 7.30pm, and saw that Obama had won on the TV in the restaurant/bar we were in, whilst we were eating, and the whole place was cheering and clapping and celebrating. It was really exciting to be part of such an atmosphere!

Now, we're in our room on the 24th floor and we can hear the cheering in hotels and bars etc (I presume lol!)just down the block...


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## LadyBug (Nov 5, 2008)

*LedaHartwood wrote: *


> I'm a little glad that we won't have Palin in the white house. She advocates the killing of wolves and bears. She and her friend shot 14 wolf pups.


i'm a little glad too, but for her kids. she needs to be there for her youngest son and oldest daughter especially right now(but i still with mccain'd won)


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## pinksalamander (Nov 5, 2008)

We are studying speeches in English and so my teacher said 'due to this historic event that occured today, guess what we will be looking at?' and my friend shouted 'GUY FAWKES!' :foreheadsmack:

Anyway, we read his speeches and watched his final speech. My god you guys are patriotic! LOL. It was a brill speech though, although he went on a bit about 'God' and 'God Bless America' a bit too much for me. I don't think Politians in the UK ever mention religion, they couldn't get away with it.

At least now we have someone attractive to look at. Rather than a big Scottish guy with a mouth twitch who looks like a frog that died.

Fran  :hearts :brownbunny


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Nov 5, 2008)

*pinksalamander wrote: *


> Anyway, we read his speeches and watched his final speech. My god you guys are patriotic! LOL. It was a brill speech though, although he went on a bit about 'God' and 'God Bless America' a bit too much for me. I don't think Politians in the UK ever mention religion, they couldn't get away with it.



This is something that has always struck me massively when watching American politicians. I knew America was a strongly Christian country but I never realised how much it came into politics as politicians here never talk about religion (or patriotism for that matter!) I don't mean any offence to anyone by this but I just don't think religion and politics should ever mix.:?



I do however think Obama is a fantastic public speaker, much better than poor Gordon Brown here! (your description is hilarious Fran - and so true!) Poor guy. It just depresses me that people are losing faith in the labour party because he is the leader (well....that on top of other issues!) but that's moving onto British politics!


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## lalena2148 (Nov 5, 2008)

*Bunnys_rule63 wrote: *


> *pinksalamander wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Anyway, we read his speeches and watched his final speech. My god you guys are patriotic! LOL. It was a brill speech though, although he went on a bit about 'God' and 'God Bless America' a bit too much for me. I don't think Politians in the UK ever mention religion, they couldn't get away with it.
> ...



Funny thing is...I don't know why, but I don't really feel like we're a 'christian' country. Maybe because I'm so used to the fact that God is mentioned in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. When we say the pledge of allegience in school it's always 'under God.' I just recognize that all those things were written by very religious people long ago when the country was founded. It was their beliefs that helped found the country, but this place has changed and gone so far since then. 

I have to say two things that I realized yesterday that I never thought I'd see. 

To put it in context, I'm a 25 year old native Chicagoan. My dad's parents are gone, but I know a lot about my mom's side. One set of my great-great grandparents emigrated from Germany (when they were 18) to America in the 1890s, and settled in Chicago. My other great-grandfather came here from Ireland when he was a 17 year old runaway spyon a cattle barge in 1917. They faced many hardships as they worked to support their families in America. In fact, my great-grandfather was looked down upon for being Irish and had trouble keeping a job. I never knew him, as he died before my mom was born, but from what my Papa (grandfather) says about him, he was unfortunately somewhat racist because of his job experiences in Chicago as a young man. Because of his upbringing, my Papa was also racist when I was little. He never did it in front of the grandkids much, but as I got older, I noticed his tone on things when he talked about how "they" were moving into the neighborhood. But, after a few as I refer to them, god sent situations where people came to their aide, my Papa started to change. He stopped referring to "them" and I never thought I would see the day...but he and my grandma *voted* for Obama yesterday. I mean... from people who grew up in bigoted households as kids, lived during the 50s, who I thought would NEVER change. I mean, just *wow*! 

Also, for myself, I cried after I voted yesterday. It was my first time voting and as I filled in the ballot the thought hit me: My great-grandmothers weren't born with the right to vote. That thought confounds me as it wasn't all the long ago. I felt _proud_ to be able to perform my duty and right as a citizen of the USA.


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 5, 2008)

INDIANA WENT DEMOCRATIC!!!! first time since 1964!

I'm really excited to see what happens in his administration. I never thought I'd see a black man as a president either. Just amazing!

I think that he did the "God bless america" thing because several people were (including myself) upset by his not putting his hand over his heart during the pledge/star spangled banner song.


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## pinksalamander (Nov 5, 2008)

I guess its a much bigger deal for you guys too seeing as you don't have a monarchy. Although Queenie doesn't really do much but pin medals on people and sign things, she is really important to us. I never really thought about is but the US President is like your 'King', so electing him is going to be as huge a deal as a coronation.

Fran  :hearts :brownbunny


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Nov 5, 2008)

Yeah Ithink you're right Fran. I guess because we have agovernment_and_ amonarchy it kind of splits the power so we don't really get that hyped up when it comes to our 'leader'. Not that the Queen actually has much power, (none that she could ever actually use in practice anyway)but you know what I mean, it's more of her significance.


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## furryface (Nov 5, 2008)

ya know...I've always wanted to visit DC.......

hmmm....January......probably lots of snow and cold right? eh..big deal..I'm in WI for crying out loud....

perhaps we should move Inauguration Day to say....June? LOL


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## pinksalamander (Nov 5, 2008)

*Bunnys_rule63 wrote: *


> Yeah Ithink you're right Fran. I guess because we have agovernment_and_ amonarchy it kind of splits the power so we don't really get that hyped up when it comes to our 'leader'. Not that the Queen actually has much power, (none that she could ever actually use in practice anyway)but you know what I mean, it's more of her significance.


The thing I find weirdf about the Queen is she has SO MUCH power. Technically, she is one of the top word leaders. After all, its _her _parliament. She has to agree on everything, sign ever bill, agree to every law. Can you imagine if we got another monarch who went against this? Who wanted power? Who wanted to completley rule the country? It could happen, and it would be another civil war for us.

I can just imagine her one day going 'No. One shan't be knighting anyone today or agreeing to any policies. One refuses'

Fran  :hearts :brownbunny


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Nov 5, 2008)

*pinksalamander wrote: *


> *Bunnys_rule63 wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Yeah Ithink you're right Fran. I guess because we have agovernment_and_ amonarchy it kind of splits the power so we don't really get that hyped up when it comes to our 'leader'. Not that the Queen actually has much power, (none that she could ever actually use in practice anyway)but you know what I mean, it's more of her significance.
> ...




We had this discussion in history last year (we didn't study British history but we were using it for context when studying the fall of the Tsar in Russia). Technically she has the right to dissolve parliament at any time, which of course is _great _power as she could go totally wacko one day and decide to take over rule of the country. However in reality it would never happen as the whole country would kick off, have a revolution and probably kill the whole Royal family (as history shows, believe me I've studied many revolutions!)

She knows that we don't _need_a monarchy in this country and they don't actually serve any political purpose. If they want to stay here then they have to keep their mouth's shut and go along with what the government decide.


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## naturestee (Nov 5, 2008)

*Bunnys_rule63 wrote: *


> This is something that has always struck me massively when watching American politicians. I knew America was a strongly Christian country but I never realised how much it came into politics as politicians here never talk about religion (or patriotism for that matter!) I don't mean any offence to anyone by this but I just don't think religion and politics should ever mix.:?



I agree, but unfortunately thereligious fanatics in theright-wing have a very loud political voice.I very much believe in the importance of keeping church and state separate, it's a big part of why the earliest settlers came here. If the Founding Fathers were brought back via time machine today they'd be proclaimed as God hating heretics. It's ridiculous. America is great and all, but keep your religion out of my politics and offmy body. I have different personalbeliefs, thankyouverymuch. 

And yes, we can be scarily patriotic. Especially during this election where disagreeing with political policies sometimes results in us being labeled "unAmerican." Meanwhile I think the government should be criticized loudly and often no matter who is in office. It's good for them and IMO is part of the democracy process.

Now back to your regular *YAY AMERICA* programming.


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## BethM (Nov 5, 2008)

*naturestee wrote: *


> *Bunnys_rule63 wrote: *
> 
> 
> > This is something that has always struck me massively when watching American politicians. I knew America was a strongly Christian country but I never realised how much it came into politics as politicians here never talk about religion (or patriotism for that matter!) I don't mean any offence to anyone by this but I just don't think religion and politics should ever mix.:?
> ...




Naturestee, It's like you read my thoughts!


I really adhere to the beliefs that this country was founded as an escape from religious persecution, and the fact that the first amendment explicitly calls for the separation of church and state. I feel wronged when laws are made and applied that are based primarily on religion. Religion belongs at home and at church, not in *any* branch of government or government controlled or influenced agency. Many other countries have been able to successfully move past this roadblock, and I wish we could, too.


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## JadeIcing (Nov 5, 2008)

I was raised Jehovah's Witness but was encouraged to learn about other religions. My family is a little odd when it comes to religion. Jehovah's Witness don't vote....Yea as you can see I am FOR voting. I have taken a little from MANY religions and have faith in God that is very very firm. 

Now do I let my faith interfere with my politics?? NO WAY! I do like to know that my politicians have some kind of faith whatever it may be.


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## Phinnsmommy (Nov 6, 2008)

I didn't like McCains speech... I think he needed to cut the crap. He was like, Barack is a great man, and he will be a great leader for this country, when just a couple days ago he was calling him a communist and terrorist...


I love Obama :biggrin2:.

I really agree on everything he says, and I think he is exactly what our country needs right now.


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## JadeIcing (Nov 6, 2008)

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2008114505/obama-moment-america-looks-mirror-and-celebrates


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 6, 2008)

*Do you celebrate holidays and stuff too?*

*I am a self-converted catholic - I became catholic around 12 years ago. *

*I enjoy learning about all faiths. My daughter's best friend is Seekist. Her family is from India. Fascinating stuff! *

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> I was raised Jehovah's Witness but was encouraged to learn about other religions. My family is a little odd when it comes to religion. Jehovah's Witness don't vote....Yea as you can see I am FOR voting. I have taken a little from MANY religions and have faith in God that is very very firm.
> 
> Now do I let my faith interfere with my politics?? NO WAY! I do like to know that my politicians have some kind of faith whatever it may be.


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## JadeIcing (Nov 6, 2008)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> *Do you celebrate holidays and stuff too?*


*Yes and no. I don't sing any songs, I don't go to church. I like to be with family and food. I don't celebrate my bday though some family members give me gifts. I refuse a cake or anything wrapped. I love any excuse to give presents. *

* style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eaf2de"*


> *I am a self-converted catholic - I became catholic around 12 years ago. *


*I don't see me ever doing that. Not sure why but I can go into any kinds of religious building but go into a catholic church and I start to sweat, I want to pass out and it makes me antsy.*

* style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eaf2de"*


> *I enjoy learning about all faiths. My daughter's best friend is Seekist. Her family is from India. Fascinating stuff! *





> That is one I don't know much about that one.





> *JadeIcing wrote: *





> I was raised Jehovah's Witness but was encouraged to learn about other religions. My family is a little odd when it comes to religion. Jehovah's Witness don't vote....Yea as you can see I am FOR voting. I have taken a little from MANY religions and have faith in God that is very very firm.
> 
> Now do I let my faith interfere with my politics?? NO WAY! I do like to know that my politicians have some kind of faith whatever it may be.


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## Hazel-Mom (Nov 6, 2008)

*lalena2148 wrote: *


> Funny thing is...I don't know why, but I don't really feel like we're a 'christian' country. Maybe because I'm so used to the fact that God is mentioned in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. When we say the pledge of allegience in school it's always 'under God.' I just recognize that all those things were written by very religious people long ago when the country was founded. It was their beliefs that helped found the country, but this place has changed and gone so far since then.



Actually, the contrary is true. "Under God" was not put into the pledge of allegience untill the 1960's! This country was founded on the principle of separation of Church and State.
The constitution was written to that end, and if the Founding Fathers were religious, they did all they could to keep that out of the constitution.
You are right though that the US has changed since then. Unfortunately, religious views have been creeping into the government more and more. The courts, in particular the supreme court, are no longer a-political and a-religious. Too bad. Let's hope the constitution will be upheld once more.


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## Haley (Nov 6, 2008)

Im going to play the devil's advocate here Regarding the, the "separation of church and state", itis not found in the Const, but a letter from Thomas Jefferson is 1802.Some would arguethatthe purpose of the First Amendment isn't to separate church and state entirely (sinceto most people at that time religion was a part of everyday life and the "state" was, in essence, the people)the purpose was to prohibit Congress from making laws _establishing a statereligion_ or from _prohibitingthe exercise_of different religions. That would meanthat it isnt that we cant acknowledge the religion that represents the morals this country was founded upon and that most people in this country uphold today, but that we cannot establish it as a state religion that others must follow and we cannot infringe on the rights of others to practice their own religion. Theres a big difference between that schoolofthoughtand the idea that the two shouldnever be thought of together.One only has to look at the Articles of Confederation so see the influence of religion when it says, _all men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights_.

Just something to think aboutsince people on the other side got to voice their opinions unopposed!

I love hearing what you in the UK and abroad think about American politics. Although Im disappointed with the outcome of our election, I am so thrilled to see so many people participating and excited about the elections. I majored in political science and Ive always had a passion for politics so its exciting for me to see so many people sharing that same excitement this year 

*off to hide my guns and my money* wink wink


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## BethM (Nov 7, 2008)

_*"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."


*_The extensive debates over the Second Amendment right to carry firearms really proves that there isn't any way of truly knowing the true meaning that was intended when these words were written. The recent ruling on handguns by the Supreme Court could have gone either way.

The First Amendment seems pretty basic, though, that no laws can be made to encourage or repress any individual religion, or religion in general. Given that there are so many varied religions in the US today, it seems to me that no laws can be made regarding religion at all, otherwise it runs the risk of violating the First Amendment. 

The abortion thing, is religious. When a law is made that life begins at the moment of fertilization, that is a religious belief that is in conflict with my own religious belief, and denying me the right to an abortion is prohibiting the free exercise of my own religious beliefs. 

Gay marriage, also a religious issue. Personally, I think the term "marriage" should refer to the religious ceremony/aspect of things, and "civil union" should be applied to everyone in reference to the legal aspects (tax code, visitation rights, etc.). Maybe not a popular opinion, but it seems to me that would let the religious people keep their "sanctity" of marriage but give everyone equal legal rights. (Btw, I don't think marriage is all that sacred, anyway. The divorce rates are proof enough of that, to me. It's just a legal thing.)

Evolution vs. Creation.....I don't have a problem with creation being taught in schools, as long as it's taught in religion class. My high school was pretty progressive for a Kansas school, and offered electives in Comparative Religion and World Mythology, as well as a multitude of Science electives. (I took the mythology one, quite interesting.) But Evolution needs to be taught in science class, it is a scientific principle, and anyone graduating today without a basic understanding of the principle is a joke. (I know the arguement, evolution is just a "theory." Well, gravity is just a "theory," too, but I don't know anyone who would dispute it on that basis. Not a valid arguement.) Once again, creation is a religious idea, and if that's what you want to teach your kids at home or in church, that's fine. Anyone who tried to teach me that as fact in a science class, though, would have a world of trouble on their hands. Not everyone believes that idea, therefore teaching it as scientific fact is a violation of my religious rights.

Beyond the basic moral things of prohibiting murder, theft, etc., which are things that help society in general function properly, I don't think laws can be made based on religious values without the possibility of infringing on the religious rights of other groups.

I think that laws forcing one religion's values onto people is really repressive and backwards, and people who think it's ok to do that either don't understand the basic concept of religious freedom in this country, or flat out don't care about anyone's values other than their own.


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## Hazel-Mom (Nov 7, 2008)

*Haley wrote:*


> _all men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights_.



Note that they put down "Creator", and NOT "God". Most religions, and even non-religions, do have some belief in a "creator", or at least "creation", though not all call it, her or him "God".
So yes, I still believe that the purpose was to not infringe one religion or set of religious beliefs over any others. That was the whole purpose for breaking away and seeking independence for America, after all: to find freedom from religious oppression, unlike what they were subjected to in England.
Thus the thoughts of many that what has been happening lately IS going against the first ammendment.


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 7, 2008)

Ali, I think a lot of people have a feeling like that who are not Catholic. It is a very "formatted" service, and there has been (sometimes justly) criticism of the church and tons of other issues.

The church was very corrupt many years ago - you had to pay for your sins and stuff.

I don't agree with everything the church stands for but it's a Christian faith and there are some things I agree with completely.

Can you tell me the basis for not celebrating birthdays and stuff? I would think that would be a huge celebration since it's the birth of a new child being remembered....... :huh


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 7, 2008)

*BethM wrote: *


> The abortion thing, is religious. When a law is made that life begins at the moment of fertilization, that is a religious belief that is in conflict with my own religious belief, and denying me the right to an abortion is prohibiting the free exercise of my own religious beliefs.




There are many laws that could be considered in conflict with someone's religious beliefs. If we didn't have some sort of line drawn, would we not have just a bunch of people doing whatever they wanted? 

In some religions, they have had human sacrifice.... and animal sacrifice is not unusual at all..... around the world. 

I'm not arguing the abortion thing but saying that it's a hard thing to please everyone.... 



> Gay marriage, also a religious issue. Personally, I think the term "marriage" should refer to the religious ceremony/aspect of things, and "civil union" should be applied to everyone in reference to the legal aspects (tax code, visitation rights, etc.). Maybe not a popular opinion, but it seems to me that would let the religious people keep their "sanctity" of marriage but give everyone equal legal rights. (Btw, I don't think marriage is all that sacred, anyway. The divorce rates are proof enough of that, to me. It's just a legal thing.)


I agree completely - marriage is to me a religious event. However, my hubby and I were first married by the Justice of the Peace. 

I consider that a LEGAL union, civil union or whatever.


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## JadeIcing (Nov 7, 2008)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> Ali, I think a lot of people have a feeling like that who are not Catholic. It is a very "formatted" service, and there has been (sometimes justly) criticism of the church and tons of other issues.





> Hehe ever sit through a Jehovah's Witness service? It is very formatted.





> The church was very corrupt many years ago - you had to pay for your sins and stuff.
> 
> I don't agree with everything the church stands for but it's a Christian faith and there are some things I agree with completely.





> Thats me!





> Can you tell me the basis for not celebrating birthdays and stuff? I would think that would be a huge celebration since it's the birth of a new child being remembered....... :huh



We raised and are told that if some one wishes us Happy Birthday or gives us a gift. We are to be respectful. Say thank you and leave it at that. Read 3 and 4

This site has lots and lots of information. 

Also one thing that irks me is the Pledge of Allegiance. We do not say it but our expected to stand out of respect for those who believe and those who gave their lives for it. 

I think like any religion people take it to far. I also believe no religion is wrong it is the people an the way they practice it that is wrong.


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## JadeIcing (Nov 7, 2008)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> *Bo B Bunny wrote: *





> Ali, I think a lot of people have a feeling like that who are not Catholic. It is a very "formatted" service, and there has been (sometimes justly) criticism of the church and tons of other issues.





> Hehe ever sit through a Jehovah's Witness service? It is very formatted.





> The church was very corrupt many years ago - you had to pay for your sins and stuff.
> 
> I don't agree with everything the church stands for but it's a Christian faith and there are some things I agree with completely.





> Thats me!





> Can you tell me the basis for not celebrating birthdays and stuff? I would think that would be a huge celebration since it's the birth of a new child being remembered....... :huh





> We raised and are told that if some one wishes us Happy Birthday or gives us a gift. We are to be respectful. Say thank you and leave it at that. Read 3 and 4





> Also a good one to read to understand alittle more.





> This site has lots and lots of information.
> 
> Also one thing that irks me is the Pledge of Allegiance. We do not say it but our expected to stand out of respect for those who believe and those who gave their lives for it.
> 
> I think like any religion people take it to far. I also believe no religion is wrong it is the people an the way they practice it that is wrong.


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## BethM (Nov 7, 2008)

*Bo B Bunny wrote:*


> > I agree completely - marriage is to me a religious event. However, my hubby and I were first married by the Justice of the Peace. I consider that a LEGAL union, civil union or whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Nov 7, 2008)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> I think like any religion people take it to far. I also believe no religion is wrong it is the people an the way they practice it that is wrong.


I agree


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## JadeIcing (Nov 7, 2008)

*I had a HUGE wedding but had nothing religious what so ever. Why because my family and his have many different religions. I didn't want anyone offended. I had a JP and it HAD to be a woman. *

*BethM wrote: *


> *Bo B Bunny wrote:*
> 
> 
> > > I agree completely - marriage is to me a religious event. However, my hubby and I were first married by the Justice of the Peace. I consider that a LEGAL union, civil union or whatever.
> ...


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## JadeIcing (Nov 7, 2008)

Random but I like this [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFnzbjftMwc&feature=PlayList&p=B70F7335E121353E&index=3&playnext=4&playnext_from=PL]I like a boy.[/ame] They have some funny videos. This one is one that makes me smile.


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Nov 7, 2008)

*Luvmyzoocrew wrote: *


> *JadeIcing wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I think like any religion people take it to far. I also believe no religion is wrong it is the people an the way they practice it that is wrong.
> ...





Very true.One of my major pet peeves about life is prejudice and discrimination, whether that is against skin colour, cultural/class background, sexuality,religion etc. I believe that anybody should have the right to practice and believe in whatever religion they want and should respect everyone else's beliefs.

For instance, my best friend isn't religious at all. In fact she is very anti-religion (not that I can blame her after all she has been through in her life). Another one of my very good friends is very religious (Church of England) and attends church regularly. Do their religious beliefs affect my friendship with them? Of course not!! Each to their own.


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## JadeIcing (Nov 7, 2008)

*My brother has very negative feelings about religion. He knows to watch what he says in front of me. He knows we were taught to respect EVERYONES beliefs.*

*Bunnys_rule63 wrote: *


> *Luvmyzoocrew wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *JadeIcing wrote: *
> ...


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## pinksalamander (Nov 7, 2008)

I strongly agree with 'each to their own'. I don't tell Religious people they are wrong. I don't storm into churches and shout 'YOUR ALL KIDDING YOURSELVES!' *so why do some religious people do that to me?*

I'm curious actually, from those of you who are religious, do you agree with those who preach on the street etc? If any of you have been to Covent Garden in London you may be familiar with the old lady who walks over to you while your munching your sandwiches and tells you how God will smite you and how you are the Devil and are evil and will be condemned to a life in hell. That really irritates me. I mean, I don't care. I don't believe I will go to hell but its hardly a good attitude to intimidate people.

I also feel intimidated by people who turn up at my house. The other day this guy turns up and tells me how he wants to discuss with me the meaning of life. I say, no, sorry, I don't want to discuss that. So he tells me that I'm obviously following the devil and need to repent my sins or whatever. I say no, and close the door on him and he puts his foot in the door. I was petrified I could have cried. I'm only 17 and I was home alone and this guy was trying to come in my house telling me that I was evil. I find it hurtful. 

It actually makes me dislike religion even more. I'm agnostic. I would probably be more open to religious ideas if I didn't have some people who do things like this. I know its not everyone, but do you guys support this? I often feel strongly intimidated when people tell me they are very religious because I get worried they will try to convert me, and will dislike me or not want to get to know me if I tell them I'm not religious. Even if you don't do it yourself do you support your fellow people from your religion trying to convert people? I'm genuinely interested.

Fran  :hearts :brownbunny


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## JadeIcing (Nov 7, 2008)

*pinksalamander wrote: *


> I strongly agree with 'each to their own'. I don't tell Religious people they are wrong. I don't storm into churches and shout 'YOUR ALL KIDDING YOURSELVES!' *so why do some religious people do that to me?*


*If I did that and my family found out...:shock::rip:*

* style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #eaf2de"*


> I'm curious actually, from those of you who are religious, do you agree with those who preach on the street etc? If any of you have been to Covent Garden in London you may be familiar with the old lady who walks over to you while your munching your sandwiches and tells you how God will smite you and how you are the Devil and are evil and will be condemned to a life in hell. That really irritates me. I mean, I don't care. I don't believe I will go to hell but its hardly a good attitude to intimidate people.





> That seems...umm...harsh. An creepy.





> I also feel intimidated by people who turn up at my house. The other day this guy turns up and tells me how he wants to discuss with me the meaning of life. I say, no, sorry, I don't want to discuss that. So he tells me that I'm obviously following the devil and need to repent my sins or whatever. I say no, and close the door on him and he puts his foot in the door. I was petrified I could have cried. I'm only 17 and I was home alone and this guy was trying to come in my house telling me that I was evil. I find it hurtful.





> That is um no. You don't do that. We are taught when we go door to door. To always be respectful. I also believe if you are on the other side of the door you should be respectful to them. If they are to you that is. I have heard of witness that have had dogs let loose on them. Had things thrown at them, before they even opened their mouth or even knocked on the door.





> It actually makes me dislike religion even more. I'm agnostic. I would probably be more open to religious ideas if I didn't have some people who do things like this. I know its not everyone, but do you guys support this? I often feel strongly intimidated when people tell me they are very religious because I get worried they will try to convert me, and will dislike me or not want to get to know me if I tell them I'm not religious. Even if you don't do it yourself do you support your fellow people from your religion trying to convert people? I'm genuinely interested.
> 
> Fran  :hearts :brownbunny



Do I support people who do it that way? Never it is wrong. Have I ever tried to convert someone? Actually...no I have never tried I just speak of my faith.


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## Jenk (Nov 7, 2008)

*Happi Bun wrote: *


> :woohoo
> 
> *Go Obama!*


I'm late in replying to this thread but want to add that I voted for Obama (for as many personal reasons as anyone else voted for either candidate). I should note, though, that my vote had _nothing_ to do with the fact that Obama is from Chicago(I'm from/inthe Chicago 'burbs); I'd have voted for him if he'd been from MS, AL, CA, etc. It wouldn't have mattered.

Several years ago, before Obama announced his candidacy for the U.S. presidency, I read his book _The Audacity of Hope_; it was then that I secretly hoped he'd one day run for the Office. 

I couldn't witness Obama's acceptance speech in person but watched it on live t.v., tears running unchecked down my face. I am still feeling shocked and elated.

Jenk


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## pinksalamander (Nov 7, 2008)

> That is um no. You don't do that. We are taught when we go door to door. To always be respectful. I also believe if you are on the other side of the door you should be respectful to them. If they are to you that is. I have heard of witness that have had dogs let loose on them. Had things thrown at them, before they even opened their mouth or even knocked on the door.


But isn't that sorta bad? Like, its my home. If I wanted to convert or ask questions about religion I would do it in my own time. What would happen if I arrived at your door and said 'I want to talk to you about how you shouldn't be religious, and how there is no God'. I find it intimidating and rude even when they aren't really annoying (like that guy way). Its my house. They are on my property and I don't want them there. Just like most people wouldn't like people arriving at their door and trying to sell them soemthing, or calling them trying to make them buy double glazing.

Sorry if I sound rude. It just annoys me. I don't want to know about their religion, or I would go and find out myself.

Fran  :hearts :brownbunny


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## JadeIcing (Nov 7, 2008)

*pinksalamander wrote: *


> That is um no. You don't do that. We are taught when we go door to door. To always be respectful. I also believe if you are on the other side of the door you should be respectful to them. If they are to you that is. I have heard of witness that have had dogs let loose on them. Had things thrown at them, before they even opened their mouth or even knocked on the door.





> But isn't that sorta bad? Like, its my home.





> We preach because that is what Jesus did. He spread his words and wanted his people to do the same,





> If I wanted to convert or ask questions about religion I would do it in my own time. What would happen if I arrived at your door and said 'I want to talk to you about how you shouldn't be religious, and how there is no God'.





> That would be your right. More than likely I would reply no thank you that I believe in God.





> I find it intimidating and rude even when they aren't really annoying (like that guy way).





> I know many who do and I understand they are just following their faith.





> Its my house. They are on my property and I don't want them there. Just like most people wouldn't like people arriving at their door and trying to sell them soemthing, or calling them trying to make them buy double glazing.





> I get that. I know that we were told if they had a sticker no soliciting we are to respect that.





> Sorry if I sound rude. It just annoys me. I don't want to know about their religion, or I would go and find out myself.
> 
> Fran  :hearts :brownbunny




I should also point out I am 26 and haven't gone door to door since I was maybe 12. 

My father-in-law is a very catholic man but he got to know the witnesses that went around his neighborhood. Now they come to his door just to chat and have coffee.


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## Jenk (Nov 7, 2008)

*pinksalamander wrote: *


> I strongly agree with 'each to their own'. I don't tell Religious people they are wrong. I don't storm into churches and shout 'YOUR ALL KIDDING YOURSELVES!' *so why do some religious people do that to me?*


Two years' ago, two women (Jehovah's Witnesses) came to our door; one of them tried talking to my husband about her particular faith's views. I couldn't hear much of her side of the conversation, but I did hear my hubby say (fib) that he's Pagan. The woman basically replied, "Oh," and high-tailed it off of our porch. 

I agree with those who state that faith is a very _personal_ issue and should be respected by others. I don't feel that I've the right to tell anyone what faith to follow in his/her pursuit of God/spirituality/etc. If one chooses to not practice any faith, so be it; again, it's his/her individual choice. (Can you tell that I'm not big on someone else telling me what I ought believe, how I ought view God/the Bible and practice various religious rituals? )


> I'm curious actually, from those of you who are religious, do you agree with those who preach on the street etc? If any of you have been to Covent Garden in London you may be familiar with the old lady who walks over to you while your munching your sandwiches and tells you how God will smite you and how you are the Devil and are evil and will be condemned to a life in hell. That really irritates me. I mean, I don't care. I don't believe I will go to hell but its hardly a good attitude to intimidate people.


Such preaching counters Jesus' approach to people of various backgrounds, as detailed in the Gospels (both those included in, and those excluded from, the Bible). In fact, he allegedly instructed his followers to pray in private.


> The other day this guy turns up and tells me how he wants to discuss with me the meaning of life. I say, no, sorry, I don't want to discuss that. So he tells me that I'm obviously following the devil and need to repent my sins or whatever. I say no, and close the door on him and he puts his foot in the door. I was petrified I could have cried. I'm only 17 and I was home alone and this guy was trying to come in my house telling me that I was evil. I find it hurtful.


 At that point, I'd have threatened to call the police, if he didn't remove his foot from my doorway. Just food for thought, should another horribly rude individual show up on your doorstep anytime soon. (Age 17, or not, you've the right to tell someone when s/he had crossed the line of your personal safety boundaries.)


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## Jenk (Nov 7, 2008)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> My father-in-law is a very catholic man but he got to know the witnesses that went around his neighborhood. Now they come to his door just to chat and have coffee.


See, now _that_ is the type of civility and respect that should be practiced amongst people of _all_ belief systems.


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## JadeIcing (Nov 7, 2008)

*Jenk wrote: *


> *JadeIcing wrote: *
> 
> 
> > My father-in-law is a very catholic man but he got to know the witnesses that went around his neighborhood. Now they come to his door just to chat and have coffee.
> ...


That is what I was raised to behave like. Sometimes I don't understand how people can act any other way.


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## NorthernAutumn (Nov 7, 2008)

NOTE: use of the generalized "you and your" employed

I am more impressed by people emulating Christ's actions in their everyday and public lives, rather than verbally telling me what I should believe. That is a waste of time that could be better spent putting faith into measurable, positive action.

Get the group together, and help out at a soup kitchen. Give your short and snappy Jesus talk while people are eating, and let them take it in.

If you can't walk the walk, I don't want to hear you talk. Many people who profess to follow a faith are nasty people in their personal lives. There are very few people out there who should even attempt to mentor someone in their spiritual journey. 

I respect the lay minister at my home church. Here is a man who's wife has severe cerebral palsy,and is confined to a wheelchair, and one very mentally handicapped son to boot. He has a very low-paying job as a small town newspaper photographer.
He lives with this everyday, and still manages to preach joyful news on Sunday. He is one of the very few people I've met who actually exemplify Christian thought at its best (and trust me, I've been around a lot of "religious" people:?)

To me, approaching me about converting to your faith without even first asking if I have a faith is ludicrous. I find that door to door converters dismiss my faith easily, and I'm a Presbyterian, for Pete's Sake! Same god, different viewpoint! I would hate to be someone from the non-Christian religious sphere and have to listen to the obvious dismissal of my spirituality.

Considering that the basic premises of all religions strive for peace and justice between peoples, I don't see one someone should be touting over another. If you need more sheep to join you, do something that actually makes someone's life better.


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## JadeIcing (Nov 7, 2008)

*NorthernAutumn wrote: *


> Considering that the basic premises of all religions strive for peace and justice between peoples, I don't see one someone should be touting over another.


That is why I say.


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## paul2641 (Nov 7, 2008)

I'm glad obama won. McCain just seemed like another bush to me war crazy.


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## Jenk (Nov 7, 2008)

*NorthernAutumn wrote: *


> I am more impressed by people emulating Christ's actions in their everyday and public lives, rather than verbally telling me what I should believe.


_Ahhh_...But actually living Jesus'lessons is so much more difficult than judging others' faults.  And, thus,so many people flap their gums, rather than walk the walk. 


> I respect the lay minister at my home church. Here is a man who's wife has severe cerebral palsy,and is confined to a wheelchair, and one very mentally handicapped son to boot. He has a very low-paying job as a small town newspaper photographer.
> He lives with this everyday, and still manages to preach joyful news on Sunday. He is one of the very few people I've met who actually exemplify Christian thought at its best (and trust me, I've been around a lot of "religious" people:?)


Kudos to him; so many people would feel defeated in such a situation. But a rare few can extract the positive from _any_ situation, which can be so uplifting/instructive to others.



> I find that door to door converters dismiss my faith easily, and I'm a Presbyterian, for Pete's Sake! Same god, different viewpoint!



But didn't you know that there's only "one, true" faith (which, of course, is whatever faith is being preached in your face)?  

I was raised as (what I call) a "relaxed Roman Catholic." I wasn't told that I had to believe every bit of dogma taught by the RCC.I no longer label myself as any one faith and, instead,study many religious (various Christian,Pagan, Hindu, Buddhist, etc., sects). One can learn a lot about his/her own spirituality by learning about that of others.



> Considering that the basic premises of all religions strive for peace and justice between peoples, I don't see one someone should be touting over another.



People forget that, in the _NT_, Jesus is said to have complimented people of _various_ religious backgrounds (Jewish, Pagan, etc.) ontheir faith. He didn't discriminate and say, "You must believe as _I_believe." Rather, he demonstrated howall people should live (i.e., as their brother's keeper), versushow they should label themselves, toot their own horn(s) and judge others.


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 7, 2008)

This is a fine example of why I love this forum:

1. We can discuss 2 or 3 topics within a topic and still sort of be on topic LOL!

2. We can usually discuss "touchy" subjects with kindness, acceptance, and actually listen to one another.... or read.... ....... you know what I mean! LOL


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## Jenk (Nov 8, 2008)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> This is a fine example of why I love this forum...We can usually discuss "touchy" subjects with kindness, acceptance, and actually listen to one another.... or read.... ....... you know what I mean! LOL


I feel a group hug comin' on. No, _really_, I do_.:grouphug :biggrin2:_


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