# Color Question



## CoolWaterRabbitry (Aug 11, 2011)

A friend of mine is hooked on a certain color of ND, I think she said Smoke Pearl Martan...or maybe it was the Siamese Smoke Pearl?..Anyway, she was asking how to breed a certain color/shade like those above?I don't have a clue since I haven't worked with ND's, but I know that it's not a 100% sure thing on getting one specific color. What would she want to look for in parents and genes for either of those colors? :?


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## hillrise (Aug 11, 2011)

I'm not exactly sure which color you're trying to get...

martens are otters with a chinchilla gene instead of full color, so if you're trying to get one without having one first, you need an otter that carries marten and a chinchilla.

Smoke pearls are dilute (blue) siamese sables, which are essentially torts with a shading (sable) gene.

You can get EITHER a chinchilla gene OR a sable gene.

Hope that helps.


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## CoolWaterRabbitry (Aug 12, 2011)

So a marten that carries otter and a chinchilla for one and a the other is a diluted siamese sable which is a tort with a shading gene...wow that's why I've never tried breeding for a certian shade or anything lol

So her strongest point would be to try and find a buck and doe of the color she wants? (again can't remember which one it is) but
ex.
Smoke Pearl Martan X Smoke Pearl Martan for a Smoke Pearl Martan
or
Siamese Smoke Pearl X Siamese Smoke Pearl for a Siamese Smoke Pearl

? (if that makes sense)


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Aug 12, 2011)

Regular old smoke pearl is where it's at!


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## hillrise (Aug 12, 2011)

Yeah, pretty much if you breed two rabbits of the color you want, you will almost certainly get that same color for most of the litter. It's possible for them to carry for other colors:
- martens can carry a self gene, which I think would show up as black, although that black would have the chinchilla gene instead of full color, so not the best genetic makeup)
- martens can also carry the sable gene (not sure how it shows up with the otter gene, though...probably just adds the white belly and other markings, which would be unshowable)
- any could potentially carry himalayan or REW

But, if you get the rabbits from reputable breeders, they should be able to tell you what other colors each carries.

If you want to look at the genetic markup:
Silver Martens are at-B-c(chd)-D-E-
Siamese Sables are aa B-c(chl)-D-E-
Smoke Pearls are aa B-c(chl)-ddE-

so, if you can't find parents of the same color, you can "make" the colors:
-Silver Marten from black otter with a chinchilla or silver marten parent X chinchilla with a black otter, self black, or silver marten parent
-Siamese Sable from blacks with sable or siamese sable parents
-Smoke Pearls from Siamese sables with smoke pearl parents, or blues with siamese sable or smoke pearl parents

I'm sure there are a couple other ways to get them, but those are the most obvious ways.


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## Pharfly (Aug 12, 2011)

Ageed Smoke pearls are where it's at  





I know no help at all.. I was looking for a blue holland lop and ended up with this guy and am very happy I got him


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## CoolWaterRabbitry (Aug 12, 2011)

Ok thanks for all the info. Just for my own curiosity, what's the difference between a smoke pearl and a smoke pearl marten? Or are they the same?



And anotherquestion just out of interest,

siamese sable X siamese sable = siamese sable

so if you took..

siamese sable X siamese smoke pearl = a chance of both? or would you can an unwanted shade of siamese sable or something?


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## Pharfly (Aug 12, 2011)

marten is the tan or otter gene, when it's mixed with a c-dilute gene (ie siamese) it turns the tan color too white.

Siamese sable x siamese sable= 100% siamese, if both parents carry something else ie blue dilute you will get 25% smoke pearls

Siamese sable x smoke pearl= 100% siamese as well, if the sable does not carry the blue dilute gene then all sables, if she does then 50% smokes and 50% sables

Of course many different ressesive genes can be carried for many many generations and randomly pop out, Mother nature still has her hand in all this lol!


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Aug 13, 2011)

*Pharfly wrote: *


> Ageed Smoke pearls are where it's at
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was wanting to work with shadeds with the fuzzies.. but after finding my Smoke Pearl doe above, Im hoping to change everything over to Smoke pearl in the future. She's just stunning.


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## Pharfly (Aug 13, 2011)

I got smokey because the breeder decided to not breed them any more, he was going to focus on self blues and blacks. IMO the shaded are very cool! I have a siamese cat and a siamese mouse lol. I love pointed animals


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## CoolWaterRabbitry (Aug 13, 2011)

Wow, thanks for the info. I'd love to work with different varieties and their genetics. Maybe when I get back into breeding after we move. :biggrin2:


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