# Doe having problems kindling?



## gentle giants (May 9, 2006)

My chin Mini Rex doe was due to kindle on Sunday, and just did finally today. When I went out to feed this am, she had one DOA she had had on the wire. Here's the thing--it didn't look right. I have seen peanuts, and this definalty wasn't. It's abdomen looked all sort of swollen, and very loose and squishy sort of... I know that's not a very good description.
Then I went back out to look again about three hours later, and she was just delivering another one as I walked in. Again, on the wire, and it looked the same way as the first one, only it actually had a little meconium coming from it's little rear. This one was also DOA. Is there something wrong with the doe, and what can I do for her? This is her first litter, BTW.


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## pamnock (May 9, 2006)

Kindling difficulties (dystocia)Â Â is not uncommon in small breeds.Â  It's important to be able to palpate to assure that no kits are being retained.Â Â Some breeders routinely give hormone injections to expel any retained kits. (I don't).

Â I would re-breed the doe within 3 days.Â  Generally, they often do fine with the next litter.Â Â Â Does that repeatedly have kindling problems should not be used in a breeding program.

Pam


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## gentle giants (May 10, 2006)

This is the first time I have managed to get her to breed. I will re-breed her tomorow night, and if she doesn't have a healthy litter the next time, I won't breed her again. Is this something that tends to happen to chin Mini Rex in particular? I bred a black MR doe the same day, and she had her litter just fine.


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## pamnock (May 10, 2006)

Not necessarily in chin Mini Rex, but small breeds in general.



Pam


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## redestarrosa (May 10, 2006)

* yeah, i know what you mean by the abdomen swollen and loose and squishy, that is the best way i could describe one of my rat's litters in the past, i have a hairless female rat, she delivered and cared for her first litter pretty good,Â  and i still got two of them...
but her next three litters, was like them deformity, weird, and cleft lips and didn't survived after being born

so i decided to have my male rat neutered so i won't have to worry about anymore babies

im going to have my other boy rat neutered too, her son, he is a hairless rat too and he is missing part of his left "ring" finger,either due to birth accident or born that way


gentle giants wrote: *


> My chin Mini Rex doe was due to kindle on Sunday, and just did finally today. When I went out to feed this am, she had one DOA she had had on the wire. Here's the thing--it didn't look right. I have seen peanuts, and this definalty wasn't. It's abdomen looked all sort of swollen, and very loose and squishy sort of... I know that's not a very good description.
> Then I went back out to look again about three hours later, and she was just delivering another one as I walked in. Again, on the wire, and it looked the same way as the first one, only it actually had a little meconium coming from it's little rear. This one was also DOA. Is there something wrong with the doe, and what can I do for her? This is her first litter, BTW.


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## gentle giants (May 10, 2006)

Well, she hasn't had any more kits as of this am. I am going to palpate her to see if any kits have been retained, and if not breed her again. If she has retained any kits, what should I do? Other than not breed her, of course.


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## pamnock (May 10, 2006)

In most cases, the doe will pass the kit within a few days.

Ideally, if a kit is retained, the doe needs to be given a hormone / calcium injection within 24 hours of going into labor.Â  The injection works with the doe's own hormones and be ineffective after that period of time.

If the doe does not pass the retained kit, she may develop a fatal infection as the kit begins to putrefy (in some cases it will mummify).Â  In this case, the kit must be surgically (c-section) removed.

Basically, the longer you wait, the more expensive the treatment gets.


Pam


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## gentle giants (May 12, 2006)

It feels to me like she has retained a kit. I am not very good at palpating, but I really think I am feeling something in there. I have heard that raspberry leaves can help bring on labor contractions, is it too late to try that? I don't know what else I can do, I just plain don't have the money for a c-section right now.


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## pamnock (May 15, 2006)

You can try some gentle abdominal massage and exercise.Â  Raspberry leaves won't hurt, but won't have any effect on whether or not she expels the kit at this point.

One issue is the fact that you don't know for certain if she's retaining a kit or not.Â  Keep track of her temperature and watch for signs of infection.

Pam


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## gentle giants (May 15, 2006)

What do I do about breeding her again? Just wait to see if she gets an infection? I am so frustrated, I am trying sooo hard to get into chins, and she is the only chin doe I have been able to find. I paid a substantial amount for her, too. Dang it.


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## pamnock (May 15, 2006)

If you suspect she's retaining a kit, the best thing to do would be to get her to the vet rather than risk loosing her.

You can take the chance of rebreeding her, but her health may be at risk if there is still a retained kit.

Pam


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## Kez-bunniemom (May 16, 2006)

I have a similar problem. 
My doe had a litter of five 10 days ago and i noticed that the day after kindling there was blood in her pee corner. I didn't worry too much, she has bled after litters in the past but only a few drops.
This time though, the day after noticing the blood, i noticed a LOT more blood in her cage next to the nest of babies, also there were some splashes of blood over her general floor area.....it's been 10 days and she still has blood in her pee corner every day.
I'm getting very worried, does this mean she has some stuck after birth? Maybe a stuck kit?
The babies are all fine and she is also fine in herself, she isn't lethargic or sleeping a lot...


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## pamnock (May 16, 2006)

It's not unusual for does to pass some blood for a few days after kindling, however, I would be concerned if she is still bleeding 10 days later.Â  Are you certain that it's blood and not just very orange urine?

Pam


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## Kez-bunniemom (May 16, 2006)

It's either blood or very, very red/orange urine... I could get a picture up if it would help.


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## pamnock (May 16, 2006)

Orange urine is generally normal - blood is a concern.Â  You'll need to take a closer look and determine what it is.Â  Blood will clot and form strands -- orange pigment in the urine won't.

Pam


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## gentle giants (May 16, 2006)

An x-ray would tell if my doe has a retained kit, wouldn't it? That seems like the simplest answer.


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## SunnieBunnie Rabbitry (May 16, 2006)

Yes, an x-ray would be able to diagnosea retained kit.


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## Kez-bunniemom (May 17, 2006)

Ok, i will take her to the vet just in case 
Â Thanks for all the advice. Actually, whe i look closer today it doesn't look so pinky-red...it is more orange....i will definately keep an eye on her... i wouldn't want to lose her, she is a really sweet rabbit with a pedigree background so lovely kits.


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## pamnock (May 17, 2006)

A sonogram would be very helpful in determining if there is still a kit retained -- however, there have been cases of vets mis-reading the sonogram and either not being able to see the stuck kit or thinking they see one when there isn't one there.Â  TheÂ sonogram can also be useful for determining if there is retained fluid in the abdomen or a retained placenta.

If the vet is experienced in palpating rabbits, a highly accurate diagnosis should be able to be made in combination with the sonogram.

In the cases of does retaining kits where I have taken the doe to the vets, palpating alone was accurate enough to determine that a kit had been retained and a sonogram was not necessary.


Pam


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