# New Cage possibbly??????



## ldoerr (Aug 7, 2012)

I currently have 1 Jersey wooly doe. She is in a cage that is 31"x21"x18" (LxWxH). I am getting a new bunnie this weekend. She is a Mini Red doe. I am wondering if I need to make a new cage or if they can both be good in that cage? The space that I have available at the absolute MAX is 52" by 3ft. If I built a new cage how big would it need to be? How many panels is that length x width? Also how many levels would it need to be?


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## littl3red (Aug 7, 2012)

That cage is hardly enough space for one rabbit, let alone two. I admit that the cage I got for my rabbit is too small, but I am switching her to an x-pen soon, which is a very good option and what I should have gone with originally. It costs about the same as the cage I have now but is much larger. I would say, in this and any situation, give the rabbits as much space as possible. Also, you might want to wait putting the rabbits together until you know they get along, you don't want anyone getting hurt.


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## ldoerr (Aug 7, 2012)

The reason why I do not want to use an xpen is because I have a dog that does not like rabbits. The cage that Beauty is in now is up off the ground. Do you have any sugestions on the NIC cage I should build or on introducing rabbits?


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## littl3red (Aug 7, 2012)

Okay, I didn't understand that you were building a NIC cage. It sounds like the largest you could do is 3x2 14" panels, or 4x3 12" panels, I'm not sure exactly what brand you have or how large they are. Either way, I would make it at least 2 panels high if you are putting a top on it, and maybe 3 if you aren't, it depends on if you think your rabbits will jump out or not.

As for introducing the rabbits, I can't help much with that, as I have never done it. I'm sure someone else on the forum can though.


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## Blue eyes (Aug 7, 2012)

This NIC cage would be an appropriate size for 2 bunnies and should fit in your available space. However, you cannot just put the 2 in there without first going through the bonding process. Bunnies bond best when spayed. Your girls should be spayed for their health anyway to avoid cancer. 

Are your girls spayed yet?


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## littl3red (Aug 8, 2012)

I second Blue Eyes, that is a very good cage, but if you have multiple levels MAKE SURE to cover the floor with something, don't leave them right on the wire.


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## ldoerr (Aug 8, 2012)

Neither one is spayed and I will most likely not be able to get them spayed. My parents are very against taking any animal besides a dog or cat to the vet. I do not have a job so can not afford to take them in myself. I will talk to my parents about getting them spayed when they are in a good mood. (last I talked to them they were stressed because my brother was stranded in the middle of nowhere with a broken down car). 

I have a question, Where do you get the panels to make those cages? Everywhere online that I have looked only sells them in packs to make 4 cubes. The places that sell them in packs to make 6 cubes cost WAY too much (like $50-$60+). I would like to build this as cheeply as posible because we are on a budget right now. Getting Shinny Things was a little bit unexpected. (long story, see other post in main forum).


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## ldoerr (Aug 8, 2012)

Also neither one of the rabbits is litter box trained yet. How do you keep that cage clean and get the rabbits out? One last question. How many panels do you need to build that cage?


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## MiserySmith (Aug 8, 2012)

I suggest that you DO NOT get a second rabbit. You have no money for a spay never mind vet care. It's cruel to keep animals with no intentions of getting them the care they need, not to mention you said it yourself.. you just don't have the space. Even being around each other unspayed can cause hormonal issues, you never know.
You're way better off spoiling the one you have, until a time when you can convince your parents to get her spayed and vet care.
Seriously reconsider, wait until your current bunny is fixed and can be vetted if necessary. Sometimes intros do not go well at all and fights can lead to injuries- where they'd have to see a vet.


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## ldoerr (Aug 8, 2012)

I have been waiting to get this rabbit since March. I have had to pull a lot of strings and a lot of people have helped me to get the rabbit. I was a breeder for 4 years. All of my rabbits lived next to eachother. None of them are fixed. Until I joined this forum I did not even know that you could get a rabbit fixed. Getting a rabbit fixed is NOT the norm. Also VERY few people take rabbits to the vet. I will be watching the intro closely. Beauty my current rabbit is very laid back and sweet. If I can remember corectly the new rabbit Shiny Things is also very sweet and laid back. She is one of the rabbits that I breed in 2010. I checked my pedigree program yesterday and Shiny Thinks is 2 years and 2 moths old TODAY. Beauty was born I beleave January 11th 2011. They are both old enough to get along. They will be cared for the best that is posibel. I am sure that is one of them gets injured my parents will let me take it to the vet. To a breeder a fixed rabbit is a worthless rabbit. They can not show, or breed. All they can be used for is for pets and that makes them basically worthless. 

If you would go and read my post in the main forum then it would explain everything. Sorry if I am sounding rude but I do take very good care of my animals.


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## littl3red (Aug 8, 2012)

So pet rabbits are "basically worthless" now? I'm sorry, but I think you may be in the wrong place. NO animal, whether a breeder, pet, food animal, NO animal is worthless, and CERTAINLY not a pet. And no, many people do not take rabbits to the vet, and that is a shame, because they are NOT "throw away" pets. You don't only sound rude, you sound cruel and heartless.


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## Blue eyes (Aug 8, 2012)

*ldoerr wrote: *


> Until I joined this forum I did not even know that you could get a rabbit fixed. Getting a rabbit fixed is NOT the norm. Also VERY few people take rabbits to the vet. They are both old enough to get along. They will be cared for the best that is posibel. I am sure that is one of them gets injured my parents will let me take it to the vet. To a breeder a fixed rabbit is a worthless rabbit. They can not show, or breed. All they can be used for is for pets and that makes them basically worthless.
> 
> If you would go and read my post in the main forum then it would explain everything. Sorry if I am sounding rude but I do take very good care of my animals.


I don't know why you appear to be trying to ruffle feathers here on this forum. Even though you might have bred some rabbits as a child, that doesn't mean your experiences are the norm. There is a breeder section on this forum, but many of us have rabbits as pets. None of us consider our pets worthless anymore than you would consider a neutered dog to be worthless. An animal's ability to show or breed is not what gives it "worth."
It IS most definitely the NORM for pet rabbit owners to fix their bunnies. We are aware of how vicious fights can be between intact, unbonded rabbits. Many of us know this from years of experience. Hence the warnings you were being given by other members. 
It is also true that unspayed females statistically die of cancer at an incredibly higher rate. Our indoor, spayed rabbits live 10+ years. Unspayed females average death by cancer at around 4-5 yrs of age. 
Anyone on this forum cares for their pets. We are here to share that knowledge and experience with others and so benefit from each other. You may disagree with what others say, but that does not invalidate facts. We are all here to share and learn. 
Regarding the NIC cubes, there is a list of potential purchase sources if you scroll down on the following site:
http://www.guineapigcages.com/cubes.htm


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## ldoerr (Aug 8, 2012)

I am really sorry about my last post. I did not mean it. I was getting cranky because I had not eaten anything yet today. I was not trying to ruffle any feathers. I really do care about my animals. I will be talking to my mom about getting the rabbits fixed but it will most likely not happen any time soon. (maybe for a christmas/bday present they could do it for me). Beauty is already the most spoiled rabbit that I have ever had. My mom thinks that the cage that Beauty is in is WAY too big for her. She thinks that a 4lb rabbit only needs a cage that is 18"x24" (what we used to keep our rabbits in without letting them out to run ever). I am learning how to keep a pet rabbit since being on this forum. It just might take some time for me (and my mom) to get used to the idea of treating a rabbit like a dog or cat. Once again I DID NOT mean to offend anybody. If I could I woudld just deleat this whole thread and start it again. I know that I should not have said that pet rabbits are worthless. I know that they are not. I was not thinking clearly. I hope that you all can forgive me.


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## ldoerr (Aug 8, 2012)

Also thank you for that link. It was very helpfull


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## littl3red (Aug 8, 2012)

It's alright... I really should have been nicer in my response too. Treating a rabbit like a dog or cat can be a foreign concept to some people, but truth is, rabbits are not "cage animals." My mom was the same way when I first got my rabbit, wanted her in the cage all the time, thought she was just a fluffy poo machine. But even she is learning, if I take the time to treat my rabbit like a member of the family, she is a very entertaining and rewarding pet to keep. Rabbits are just as good as pets as dogs are, just different. Honestly though, if you are going to keep a pet rabbit, and ESPECIALLY if you are going to get another, make sure you build a bigger cage, give them PLENTY of time out (they should have at least a couple hours a day to run around and exercise, or you will have unhappy and unhealthy buns) and make sure you can provide them with veterinary care. If you must, look for a humane society in your area, sometimes they will do spays for free, but I don't recommend it unless you ABSOLUTELY CANNOT take them to a vet. Having a humane society do a spay can sometimes be dangerous.


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## ldoerr (Aug 8, 2012)

I am planning on making a bigger cage this weekend when I get the rabbit (I can not get ANY of the stuff to build the NIC cages in Brenham TX). I think that the space that I have will allow me a max footprint of 3x2. What I plan to do to start is make a 3x2x2 with a devidor in the center. This way the rabbits can get to know eachother. I will have a shelf in each compartment. I have already bunny proofed my walk in closet (small walk in, only space that would be safe for them). Beauty has not been in their yet so I think that it would be a good neutral teritory for them (do not have Shiny Thing yet). I will eventually add a third story to the cage. (probably not 4th since both rabbits I beleave are very inactive). 

Do you have any ideas on door for the cage? I plan on having coroplast as the base and have it come up on the outsides by about 3" to keep the mess in the cage. Neither bunny is litter box trained, so ease of cleaning is a big thing. 

I hope that you are having a great day


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## littl3red (Aug 8, 2012)

For the door, I think you put zip-ties along one side of the wire and use a dog-leash style clip to hold it shut (or anything that won't be chewed, really.) I was going to build a NIC cage but could not find coroplast ANYWHERE, so if that's a problem for you, I would suggest linoleum or even a shower curtain.


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## ldoerr (Aug 8, 2012)

Where should the door go so that I have easy access to the whole cage for cleaning? (I clean daily). Should the whole top front row swing down? For the cage in Spring that we built last weekend the whole top front swings down and 1/2 of the top swings back. That makes it really easy to get into the cage for cleaning/picking up a stubborn bunny. I need to figure out how to post pictures and put a couple of them up to show everyone. (my mom came up with the design.)


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## littl3red (Aug 8, 2012)

That does sound like a good way to make cleaning easy. I don't see any reason why that would cause any issues.


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## ldoerr (Aug 8, 2012)

The only concern that I have is for when I want to add an additional level to the cage. I guess that I will figure that out latter on down the road. 

I posted pictures for Beauty's weekend cage for you to see. (it is the cage that has those doors I was talking about.


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## Blue eyes (Aug 9, 2012)

Apology accepted  
Housing a rabbit indoors is a whole new experience (and rewarding). It seems that the longer I keep indoor bunnies, the more time they have outside their cage. My earliest buns had a few hours out each day. My later (and current) ones are now out all day long. 
Having them litter trained greatly simplifies things and they are so easy to train once they are fixed. Once they're trained, you won't need to clean the cage so often. The NIC cage above might've needed the bottom floor cleaned once per week. The upper levels stayed clean much longer. Just the litter pan needs cleaned regularly. You'll no doubt enjoy the ease. 
I've never used coroplast for the floor of my NIC cages though you certainly can. You can see in my photo that I used linoleum for the floor. It's important, though, that they can't get to the edge and chew it. I wouldn't advise a shower curtain -- that's ok for guinea pigs but rabbits will likely chew right through it. 
Here's a photo of a (sort of) 3x2x2 that I used temporarily to house 1 bunny while I was bonding her with another. It would have been better squared off, but I ran out of grids. 
http://i44.tinypic.com/33biicj.jpg 
Where are the photos that you posted?

As you and your mom transition to housing bunnies inside, you may enjoy either the website: http://www.myhouserabbit.com
or the book: "The House Rabbit Handbook" (available on amazon)

edit: that is so weird -- when I click on the houserabbit link, it tries to take me to "myhousebunny.com" which does not exist. If it does that for you, type in "myhouserabbit.com"


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## MiniLopHop (Aug 9, 2012)

You might want to be careful just splitting the cage down the middle. If the buns can get their noses threw the bars they might bite each other. I have a mini lop with a chunk out of her nose from this kind of situation.

I'm glad you are learning. I had rabbits as a kid too and they were hutch pets that were viewed more as livestock (farm country Ohio). When I got into rabbits again a couple years ago as an adult I was shocked at how much had changed and all the things I did "wrong" as a kid. The important part is willingness to learn and grow. Now I have the joy of living with 6 house rabbits that love to run around like the cats.


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## Nelsons_Mom (Aug 9, 2012)

What are your plans for if they do not bond? Because with both of them being unspayed, that's a hugely realistic possibility.

And I don't mean to offend you, but most pairs of RATS from labs are kept in bigger cages than the 18 by 24 cages your mom thinks are appropriate. They recommend 24 by 24 per rat. And bunnies are obviously much bigger.

I know someone else said this, but if you are not financially independent and your parents are unwilling to bring your rabbit to the vet (which is very much the norm) then to purposefully bring in another rabbit is a move of such irresponsible levels I cannot fathom it.

Now, I, along with the others here, will continue to offer you advice, but you refusing to believe the basic facts of your case doesn't fill me with hope.

You can buy the grids at Walmart, Kmart, and target both in store and online. If you can't find chloroplast, substitute linoleum or carpet.


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## ldoerr (Aug 9, 2012)

Brandy- Do you think that if I put some 1/2 inch mesh on the devidor that that would solve the problem of them biting at each other? 

I actually wish that I was not going to have 2 bunnies but I do not have any choice in getting Shinny Things. I have been trying to get her since March of this year. I had given her to a good friend of mine when I got out of rabbits. At the Houston Livestock show and Rodeo (HLSR) I met up with her again and found out that she was getting out of the Castor variety of Mini Rex. I asked if I could have Shiny Things back (she is a castor mini rex). She agreed to it. A couple of days later she called telling me that she had forgotten that she had sold Shiny Things a few weeks beforhand. She told me that she could get her back. After not hearing from her for months me and my mom decided that I would not be getting Shiny Things back. I went and started to look for a rabbit. Another friend of mine that breeds rabbits happened to have some for sale. I ended up getting Beauty from her. That friend has a 0 return policy. That was 2 weeks ago. I got a text from my friend with Shiny Things saying that she had finally goten her back. I got this text on Monday or Tuesday of this week. As you can see there I have to get Shiny Things. My friend has been working hard for many months to do this for me. My hope is that my parents will let me get the rabbits spayed as a Christmas or Bday gift to me.


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## MiniLopHop (Aug 9, 2012)

Mini rex are so small they might still be able to get a nose through. It just depends on their faces. I don't want them to end up injured. What about pet screen (made for screen doors)? It would let them see and smell each other but not risk biting each other? I'm not positive if buns can bite through it though.


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## ldoerr (Aug 9, 2012)

That is a really good idea. I never thought about it before. I highly doubt that the rabbits would bite each other through the cage though. Both have been in connecting cages next to other bunnies their whole life's. The normal devidor that separates rabbits in rabbitries is 1"x2" wire. I will test out a couple of things with it this weekend when they are ar my parents house. (they have access to all of the tools and materials where they live.) I will look into that stuff today. Thank you for the sugestion.


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## MyBabyHasPaws (Aug 9, 2012)

i use coroplast! I only have a small little bit, it was made mainly for the babies not to get injured. I'm sure you could just zip tie it on where the cage will be connected.

Bugsy and Oreo I want to say are officially bonded. They groom eachother thru the cage, if Bugsy is on the top level Oreo is on the top level.. they follow eachother its super cute.. i cant wait until I can have them together.


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