# Please Sign if you support responsable small breeders!



## woahlookitsme (Jul 11, 2012)

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/join-with-the-akc-to-protect-responsible-small-breeders.html

This will affect rabbit breeders and breeders of many other species


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## majorv (Jul 12, 2012)

done!


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## fantaysah (Jul 12, 2012)

me too


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## MiserySmith (Jul 12, 2012)

I don't support breeders what so ever.
But this doesn't just effect breeders, so I have signed it.


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## Samara (Jul 12, 2012)

If we don't support breeders of any kind a hundred years from now we won't have any domesticated bunnies left to snuggle  

Signed!


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## MiserySmith (Jul 12, 2012)

There will always be breeders Samara. Not necessarily good breeders, which I know are much different than BYB.. but there will never be a lack of rabbits.
I'd rather support a rescue, or take in unwanted rabbits another way.


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## woahlookitsme (Jul 12, 2012)

Rescues dont create diversity like breeders do. I meant to edit the title to say responsible small breeders like the petition title but it wouldnt let me.


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## MyBabyHasPaws (Jul 12, 2012)

I support responsible breeders that always look to better the breed, whether it be rabbits, dogs.. whatever. Signed.


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## MiserySmith (Jul 12, 2012)

Maybe once the homeless animal population goes down a couple million I'll care about breeders.


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## MyBabyHasPaws (Jul 12, 2012)

Misery likes company...


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## MiserySmith (Jul 12, 2012)

Ooo, creative!
Sorry I'd rather save a life than bring one into the world.


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## MyBabyHasPaws (Jul 12, 2012)

Its a common saying, just thought it fit.

I understand your reasons.. it makes sense to an extent


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## LakeCondo (Jul 12, 2012)

*woahlookitsme wrote: *


> Rescues dont create diversity like breeders do. I meant to edit the title to say responsible small breeders like the petition title but it wouldnt let me.



I agree that it's a problem that posters can't change the titles of their topics, but have to get a moderator to do it.

Rescue organizations don't create any rabbits at all, they just deal with those already in existence. In some ways the oops, mixed-breed rabbits crease more diversity than do breeders, but in an unplanned & unorganized way. And many shelter rabbits were originally sold by breeders & there's no way to screen out potential buyers who'll turn out to surrender their rabbits later on.

So the main focus should be on education of potential rabbit buyers & education to prevent as many oops breeding as possible: alert to how young they can get pregnant, that you may not have only young rabbits of the same gender, etc.

If we could do more of this, the shelters wouldn't be bursting at the seams.


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## woahlookitsme (Jul 12, 2012)

All breeders are not the same. Some have a greener agenda than others. Like me and others have said i have never taken any of my rabbits to a shelter. So yes once a rabbit is sold it is out of my hands if that rabbit ends up in a shelter. And yes i agree with orlena that education is what is needed but not everyone who breeds mix rabbits has an oops litter. I do not see many purebred rabbits in shelters except cals and NZs but there are a small few. Most arba breeders sell rabbits back into the show world and many of those people find other ways to retire their old or pet quality rabbits instead of selling because of the mass amount of people who want to buy because they want to breed and think it will bring in income.

Bottom line there are many types of breeders and its unrealistic to lump them all into one word and expect them to conform to one standard and way of raising their animals.


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## eclairemom (Jul 12, 2012)

I signed too, the government should be more concerned about the bigger fish in the ocean than small home breeders of any species.


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## MiserySmith (Jul 12, 2012)

I own a breeders rabbit that a friends sister purchased and then 3 years later decided she was going to just let it starve to death in the cold basement.
So yes, I do know they can be some amazing bunnies. I -personally- will just never actively seek from a breeder is all.
This thing they want to pass doesn't just effect breeders though, it also effects people who take in small animals(as a lot of times they aren't speutered) and would make it difficult to place babies from litters that come in.


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## Nancy McClelland (Jul 12, 2012)

Done.


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## woahlookitsme (Jul 13, 2012)

Yea i was reading the comments and I saw someone who was saying that it would affect her rescue dogs also.


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## wendymac (Jul 13, 2012)

I signed it a while ago. This is going to impact a LOT of people, including rescues. And it actually REMOVES pet stores, which baffles my mind.


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## Samara (Jul 13, 2012)

MyBabyHasPaws wrote:


> Misery likes company...



:laugh:


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## fuzz16 (Jul 13, 2012)

I cant adopt from a rescue because I have young kids...Ill support breeders who breed with good intent and responsibly always. and f i get another dog, ill be going to a good breeder with healthy lines bc i cant deal with issues again like i have in the past


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## lopmom (Jul 13, 2012)

Signed! I got Bailey, my Holland lop, from a small responsible breeder and just adopted Flopsy, a mini lop, from a rescue.


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## Hill-Hutch (Jul 14, 2012)

I signed!
I'm all for supporting local and small breeders who are responsible enough to breed their rabbits true/as close to the ARBA Standard of Perfection as they possibly can!

I'm 13, and I would like to become one of these responsible small breeders in a few years.


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## Blaze_Amita (Jul 14, 2012)

my aunt sent this to me- she has shelties from other smaller breeders but for her they are pets- she signed, then I got it onto Facebook and spread it that way as well!


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## MagPie (Jul 15, 2012)

I did sign. I have mixed feelings on breeders to be honest (I'd rather rescue). I often don't like how they view their animals. But there are good breeders out there that love their animals and those shouldn't pay just because there a lot of bad breeders. There should be something done with these bad breeders that doesn't punish the good ones out there.


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## Nelsons_Mom (Jul 15, 2012)

I signed, but I want to do more research on it. I am ALL for the selling of live animals in pet stores to be abolished (even though it never really will be). 

For instance, what is a "breeding female"? Does that just mean intact or does that mean of breeding age? I think that it would be much more productive to limit the amount of litters that someone can have per year rather than number of females since most responsible breeders will not breed all of their females in a given situation.

And I also do not agree with buying sight unseen with the exception of some situations. While it can go successfully, I just don't see the point since most of the time it involves shipping the animal as cargo on a flight, where a puppy or kitten can ride under the seat along with a passenger for maybe a $100 dollar difference? It would be SO much less stressful on the animals that way. 

I'm glad congress is working towards this goal, but this doesn't seem like the most practical way to be doing it, since it is getting such a negative response.


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## woahlookitsme (Jul 15, 2012)

breeding female : Females that are of breeding age and are being used or can be used in a breeding program. That's how I would define it.


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## wendymac (Jul 15, 2012)

For a lot of breeds (especially the rare ones) are hard to find locally. There are many times that breeders will purchase a rabbit from far away and it'll get transported by someone else that's heading to a show/event/Convention to be picked up by the new owner. Hardly anyone will ship a rabbit via airplane, because it's so hard on them. But sometimes having one transported by someone coming your way is the only way to get some of the breeds out there...or to even improve your own stock with some outside blood.

Breeding female is ANY intact female. Unless they're all spayed, anyone with the X amount of breeding animals will need a license.

And if this bill were to pass, then next it'll start targeting pet owners. This was probably backed by ARA types, whose ultimate goal is to see NO animals as pets. It's a slippery slope, and not one I'm comfortable with.


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## DharmaBuns (Jul 15, 2012)

*wendymac wrote: *


> For a lot of breeds (especially the rare ones) are hard to find locally. There are many times that breeders will purchase a rabbit from far away and it'll get transported by someone else that's heading to a show/event/Convention to be picked up by the new owner. Hardly anyone will ship a rabbit via airplane, because it's so hard on them. But sometimes having one transported by someone coming your way is the only way to get some of the breeds out there...or to even improve your own stock with some outside blood.


This really worries me. I am starting a second breed and am planning on picking them up at Convention. They're a very rare breed and there are NO breeders in my state, and very very few even in the surrounding states. I'm picking them up at Convention, but they're coming from Washington. How are people going to be able to promote and encourage people to try the rarer breeds when they can't actually get or see them?

Also, I picked up a few rabbits at this past Nationals and there would have been absolutely no way I could have driven to each state to pick up one rabbit. It was so convenient to just be able to pick them all up at one location.


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## Nelsons_Mom (Jul 15, 2012)

DharmaBuns wrote:


> *wendymac wrote: *
> 
> 
> > For a lot of breeds (especially the rare ones) are hard to find locally. There are many times that breeders will purchase a rabbit from far away and it'll get transported by someone else that's heading to a show/event/Convention to be picked up by the new owner. Hardly anyone will ship a rabbit via airplane, because it's so hard on them. But sometimes having one transported by someone coming your way is the only way to get some of the breeds out there...or to even improve your own stock with some outside blood.
> ...



I guess I could understand that, and I would consider that an exceptional circumstance.

And it would be hard by restricting number of females rather than litters by that definition. Like in terms of dogs, a female goes through their first heat cycle at two but they cant even get their hips done til their a year to be tested again at two years before being bred for the first time, and breeders who choose not to spay a 6 yr old dog because of the increased risk when they're out of their prime years.

I'm glad I signed then, especially when rescues being affected was brought up.


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## wendymac (Jul 16, 2012)

Yes, it includes rescues, too. The "adoption" fees that are charged would go to the $500/year total. And they do NOT consider any expenses, just the flat $500/year on sales.

And this part is another thing that blows my mind: Pet stores, even if they sell over the internet, still won't need a license. Something about it being too complicated to figure out sales in person and those via other means. 

Really? How is that any more complicated than the breeder? I think it's just a way for the USDA to get more money coming in.


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## DharmaBuns (Jul 16, 2012)

*wendymac wrote: *


> Yes, it includes rescues, too. The "adoption" fees that are charged would go to the $500/year total. And they do NOT consider any expenses, just the flat $500/year on sales.
> 
> And this part is another thing that blows my mind: Pet stores, even if they sell over the internet, still won't need a license. Something about it being too complicated to figure out sales in person and those via other means.
> 
> Really? How is that any more complicated than the breeder? I think it's just a way for the USDA to get more money coming in.



Have you seen the conditions for animals at some of these pet stores? THEY are the ones that are usually rabbit breeding factories...they need to make a profit! Often times they have incredibly cramped and filthy conditions and high "losses" of animals. Of course, this isn't all pet stores but it seems to be the case all too often. 

As a dedicated breeder I'm in it for the breed. I never got into this hobby expecting to make money and my husband and I quickly realized that this was an EXPENSIVE hobby. 

I hope that no one takes offense to this but I think that part of the problem comes from the "lop" breeders, lionhead breeders and mini rex breeders. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say that they breed a lot so that they can sell a lot and make money. These are the small "cute" breeds that everyone wants as pets and they just seem to be absolutely FLOODING the pet market.


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## Nelsons_Mom (Jul 16, 2012)

Wait, so if it doesn't count against pet stores, what is it for?! As far as I am concerned, the world would not be missing out if all those selling live animals were to shut down.

And I don't think It's lop and lionhead breeders are the problem in specific, it is the people who FANCY themselves breeders who are the problem. "Oh I got this rabbit from a pet store and this one from cl, and they're cute, so I'm gonna breed them!" And then I just turn into a giant rage monster. Because they of course sell them for 5 dollars do ignorant owners are more likely to buy them over the more expensive line whos health has been tracked through multiple generations and was bred as a result of deep thought and research.

You see the same things in dogs. The market is flooded with labs and goldens because of their popularity, but people dont know what they're doing and end up passing on undesireable health and behavioral traits.


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## MyBabyHasPaws (Jul 16, 2012)

*Nelsons_Mom wrote: *


> Wait, so if it doesn't count against pet stores, what is it for?! As far as I am concerned, the world would not be missing out if all those selling live animals were to shut down.
> 
> And I don't think It's lop and lionhead breeders are the problem in specific, it is the people who FANCY themselves breeders who are the problem. "Oh I got this rabbit from a pet store and this one from cl, and they're cute, so I'm gonna breed them!" And then I just turn into a giant rage monster. Because they of course sell them for 5 dollars do ignorant owners are more likely to buy them over the more expensive line whos health has been tracked through multiple generations and was bred as a result of deep thought and research.
> 
> You see the same things in dogs. The market is flooded with labs and goldens because of their popularity, but people dont know what they're doing and end up passing on undesireable health and behavioral traits.



Dont even get me started with the Bully Breeds.. If you look on CL that's all you see. I had the product of a English Bull Terrier from a byb, needless to say I had to rehome because of temperment issues! Bad breeding!!! 

Sorry I got off topic... i feel very passionate about this.


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## eclairemom (Jul 17, 2012)

I wanted to post this link I saw it other day when I was researching before signing the petition and was just able to find it again. I also read somewhere but can't find it of course that its' not limited to a 4 females in one species so what if you have a couple bunnies along with a dog and a cat. It's a very slippery slope.

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/publications/animal_welfare/2012/retail_pets_faq.pdf


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## DharmaBuns (Jul 17, 2012)

What about Youth breeders? Wouldn't it be quite dangerous if it were required for Youth to have people come to their homes to look at rabbits?


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## Imbrium (Apr 16, 2013)

eclairemom said:


> I wanted to post this link I saw it other day when I was researching before signing the petition and was just able to find it again. I also read somewhere but can't find it of course that its' not limited to a 4 females in one species so what if you have a couple bunnies along with a dog and a cat. It's a very slippery slope.
> 
> http://www.aphis.usda.gov/publications/animal_welfare/2012/retail_pets_faq.pdf



having read that, I'm honestly not seeing what the big deal is. a USDA license is not difficult to obtain. the new rule wouldn't be any more strict than the old one, it would just close a loophole. if you're not selling animals "sight unseen", you'd still be exempt from needing a license... and if you've got five or more intact females, you've probably got a fairly large breeding program that, in my opinion, could stand a little oversight if your customers don't see your facilities and/or see the animal(s) they're purchasing in-person before buying them. it shouldn't really effect pets much, as pets generally are (or at least should be) spayed for health reasons. the majority of pets that can't be spayed (hamsters and other rodents, for example) don't count towards your total of "intact females" (for example, until I got rid of some of Misty's babies, I had multiple intact female hamsters and two intact female sugar gliders and was still exempt from needing a license despite having more than three total intact females).

the proposed changes would actually *benefit* sugar glider breeders - I have one breeding pair + one "pet only" female... if I ended up with four adult females due to not getting a pair of female joeys sold before they reached breeding age, I would need a license under the current laws - with the changes, there would be a little more wiggle room.


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## Troller (Apr 16, 2013)

I signed.


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## Blaze_Amita (Apr 16, 2013)

DharmaBuns said:


> *wendymac wrote: *
> 
> Have you seen the conditions for animals at some of these pet stores? THEY are the ones that are usually rabbit breeding factories...they need to make a profit! Often times they have incredibly cramped and filthy conditions and high "losses" of animals. Of course, this isn't all pet stores but it seems to be the case all too often.
> 
> ...


 
That's the biggest problem we have in KY, our market is flooded with Lion Heads and Holland/Mini lops and also the new Zealand crosses we have very few purebred breeders in KY. Down here, if it's got a uterus it can make us money is the mentality. Yes I do sometimes breed my dutch a little heavy(more than 10 babies on the ground for me is a LOT), but I'll cull babies out at 4-6 weeks old to folks that use them as feeders and I'll keep some myself for 'other' purposes outside of my well marked ones that I keep for show- for which I am horribly selective- only the cream of the crop sticks around. 
I just signed it again! LOL.


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## sweet_buns (Apr 16, 2013)

I support responsible, registered breeders because they are experienced and as well as doing it for personal reasons (because they enjoy rabbits and the hobby of keeping and breeding them), they have the rabbits best interest in mind. I know breeders who only sell to other registered breeders and people they know. Most of the breeders I've met never sell rabbits to the public during the easter period, which is when most rabbits end up in rescues. And they are always willing to be contacted should you need help of any kind. Not all breeders are irresponsible. Responsible breeders are just as concerned about irresponsible owners and abandoned rabbits just like the rest of us, but they can only do so much. It's the owners responsibility to do the research and look after the rabbit. Too much blame is being put on the breeders and not enough on the irresponsible owners. The ones that are in it for a quick buck are the main cause of all the rescue rabbits imo. I agree that education is the problem because so many people buy a pet rabbit not knowing anything about them or what to expect. I did months worth of research before i finally decided i wanted a bunny and it was the best decision ive ever made! And if there weren't breeders in Australia then i wouldn't have any bunnies, and i just can't see myself without them in my life!


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