# RESCUE: Chicago Heights, IL



## lalena2148 (Feb 24, 2007)

My sister, who also owns a bun, called me today to send me this story:

*"**Rabbits rescued from Iroquois County farm"

*"One hundred seventy-six rabbits have been seized from a farm inIroquois County and their owner could face charges. The South SuburbanHumane Society is caring for the rabbits now.

The owner has a farm in Watseka and was apparently breeding the rabbitsfor animal shows. Most have upper respiratory infections. Others havemore serious health problems. They all will need a lot of care. 
While the owner is financially responsible, the humane society doesn't expect to collect. 
"By the time we get through a court case with these folks, and manytimes it never, we never actually receive the judgment in the long runbecause many times those folks just don't have any money," said StacyGaskins of the South Suburban Humane Society. 
For more information: http://www.sshspets.org/ "

Source:http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=local&amp;id=5065781

Please visit the site listed and help these bunnies! I'm going to calland at least try to foster one (I don't have any more room for bunnies,but temporarily I may be able to)
My sis said they showed them on the news and that some of them are little babies! Poor things!


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## katt (Feb 24, 2007)

i tried to find more information on the website. . .but can't. . .

someone, help. . .


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## naturestee (Feb 24, 2007)

I couldn't find the info either. Maybe they just haven't updated the website yet?

That's a huge confiscation. Any idea of some of the arearabbit rescues are taking any in? I'm guessing they have towait till the court case is over though.


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## Haley (Feb 24, 2007)

I heard about this through bunderground. Red Door Rescue is taking in as many as they can, but really need foster homes.

Apparantly, the area where they were taken from was indescribable. Deadbodies strewn about in burn piles. I hope this person rots forneglecting these bunnies.

I think its great if you can foster even one Lalena. Keep us posted


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## katt (Feb 24, 2007)

the girl i am moving out with is thinking aboutgetting a rabbit. . . since the one she has isn't allowed to leave herparents house (her mom is extremely attached to the thing, and doesn'twant to give 'little louie'- the 10 pound monster- up to anyone). . .

she is thinking that it is no fair that i am the one with the pets . ..so she is considering a little female. . .she wants a mini rex. . .iwould be interested to know what breed they are and what all they have.. . it might be worth passing the info on to her. . .


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## lalena2148 (Feb 24, 2007)

Sorry that they haven't updated the website yet guys.

My sis said that on the news there were all SORTS of breeds. She saidthere was one that looks exactly like my Drizzle (and if it's a girl, Ithink I might have to keep her )...but my husband would protest). ButI am going to call on Monday and see about fostering one.

The shelter is located in Chicago Heights, a southwest suburb ofChicago. There are a lot of shelters around here: PAWS, Animal WelfareLeague, The Red Door Shelter, HRS Chicago. Hopefully I canget some more info from them on Monday (since they are closed onSundays) and we can help these poor little guys. I will most definitelykeep you guys posted!


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## katt (Feb 24, 2007)

please keep us updated!

like i said, i would love to pass the information to my roommate. . .


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## lalena2148 (Feb 24, 2007)

So far, 4 are listed on there (they could be from before the 176, but I'm not sure):

1) FooFoo (young, male, American)

2) Gismo (Young, female, Dutch)

3) Missy (Young, female, Dwarf)

4) Roxie (Adult, Female, Dwarf)

Those are listed on Petfinder for theSouthSuburban Humane Society in
Chicago Heights, IL . I'll see where else the buns will be placed at other shelters. 

BTW, if you foster a rabbit, does the shelter help cover costs formedical care? It seems that most of these guys are sick (which would bemy only qualm about having them around here w/ my guys depending uponwhat they had) but it can get very expensive as well. What an awfulsituation for these little guys. I'm going to see if the newspaper Iwork for will investigate this more, as we write about the SouthSuburbs.

Also, I convinced them to write a section for the April 5th issue aboutnot buying rabbits for Easter. They are going to interview me andsomeone from AWL. Drizzle and Latte might even get in the paper!


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## Haley (Feb 24, 2007)

Usually if you foster the rescue will pay for any medical care. 

Im wondering if any are going to actually be up for adoption though.The email I got said something about how they have to be held untilafter the trial? Im not sure though. There was a link to a fox newsarticle but its coming up as blank.


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## lalena2148 (Feb 24, 2007)

Video from Fox News Chicago w/ the guy who owns the rabbits (plus some of the buns on the video):

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=15CE1B796351702C04449FC6599C99CB?contentId=2481657&amp;version=4&amp;locale=EN-US&amp;layoutCode=VSTY&amp;pageId=1.1.1

:?Poor things.

Haley, apparently from the video, he wants them back (didn't want themtaken in the first place) so I'm wondering if they would hold them andgive them back if he cleans up. Oy, whata mess.


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## Hippity_Hoppity (Feb 25, 2007)

wow i am shocked and horrified... keep us uptodate on where those poor bunnys end up..


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## naturestee (Feb 25, 2007)

OMG! Those poor rabbits, they're so sick and he's not doing anything! :cry4:

Not to mention that I bet the ammonia is doing a lot of damage too. I'm so glad they're getting them out of there.


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## Spring (Feb 25, 2007)

What a nasty, disgusting man. How horrible!

Poor little things.. That man should be thrown in jail! How is hesupposed to care for his rabbits when he can't even afford electricity!

Disgusting.:growl:

Keep us updated if anything happens!


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## lalena2148 (Feb 25, 2007)

I just watched to full, unedited 20 minuteinterview with him. He seems to know a lot about rabbits and he saysthere his 'buddies' but then why have them living in those conditions?

The unedited video is in the same link I gave you but click on thevideo in the sidebar, related items, video (and there is a photo of theguy). The interview is a lot longer and shows a lot more.

BTW, in the new video katt, he does mention mini rexes, holland lops,netherland dwarfs, and satins but there are also a ton more breed wise.


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## katt (Feb 25, 2007)

okay, well, i am going to talk for him in a couple points, but for the most part counter what i say:

first, the barn is a mess, but i have been to many rabbit barns duringthe winter, of highly recognized breeders and seen just this kind of'mess' the poop on the floor really isn't 3 month buildup (although itlooks like a month, and that in my opinion is to farinbetween cleanings, it should happen every 2 weeks)

it does appear that many of the rabbits are healthy, BUT the fact thathe has ill rabbits mixed in with the rabbits he brings to the shows andsells purely scares me. the fact that he sells rabbits that may havebeen housed next to a rabbit that is that ill is a major concern.

personally if he can't afford electricity, then it is time to cut the heard back or sell out. 

i think he really does love his rabbits, but i think he is over hishead. i think that the rabbits need to be taken away for the most part.i think he should be allowed to have a few a pets (i mean like 2 maybe3), but he needs to rehome some of them, the majority of them in fact.he needs to take the money that he spends on feed and everything andclean his place up and get back on his feet.

but let me tell you, those BEW hollands, how cute. . .


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## Hippity_Hoppity (Feb 25, 2007)

I wonder where or to who he sells these rabbits to... thats a scary thought as well


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## katt (Feb 25, 2007)

he sells them at rabbit shows, as pets, to 4-hkids, and to fellow breeders. in the uncut interview he names one ofthe breeders he sells to, and she is rather well known. . .


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## Hippity_Hoppity (Feb 25, 2007)

wow... so shocking.. its amazing what peopledo... and quite saddening... I am happy that someone found out and didsomething about it.


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## lalena2148 (Feb 25, 2007)

*katt wrote:*


> okay, well, i am going to talk for him in a couple points,but for the most part counter what i say:
> 
> first, the barn is a mess, but i have been to many rabbit barns duringthe winter, of highly recognized breeders and seen just this kind of'mess' the poop on the floor really isn't 3 month buildup (although itlooks like a month, and that in my opinion is to farinbetween cleanings, it should happen every 2 weeks)


I was thinking that too katt! I watched the vid w/ my husband and saidthat is about 1 month of poop. I mean, after having 2 of varyingsizes...I realized the bigger one poops A LOT more. If you let it sitfor that long, it REALLY adds up. But yes, every 2 weeks it should becleaned (hell I clean my guys cages and litter every 4-7 days!)



> it does appear that many of the rabbits are healthy, BUT thefact that he has ill rabbits mixed in with the rabbits he brings to theshows and sells purely scares me. the fact that he sells rabbits thatmay have been housed next to a rabbit that is that ill is a majorconcern.


True, many of them looked rather spunky and healthy, but yes the factthat they're next to buns w/ pasturella, especially older and babies,it concerns me. If they were quarantined, that might be a differentstory. He showed that he was giving them Pen G injections for thechronic sniffles, which is good. However, he said that those rabbit'sconditions just happen like that (ie: the crusting on the eyes and onthe nose so bad where they can't breathe). I don't think it crusts upthat easily that fast unless you are not cleaning them off a lot whilethey are getting treated.

My other concern, you could see his breath in the barn because it wascold. And now with no electricity, I wonder how they'll stay warm?



> i think he really does love his rabbits, but i think he is overhis head. i think that the rabbits need to be taken away for the mostpart. i think he should be allowed to have a few a pets (i mean like 2maybe 3), but he needs to rehome some of them, the majority of them infact. he needs to take the money that he spends on feed and everythingand clean his place up and get back on his feet.




I think he does too. He was getting emotional talking about them. Theyare really all he has. And I must say, the fact that he says he playswith them is evident by the fact that they all come up to him when theyare in the cages and want to be petted and not scared of him. That's anice thing to see. Most of the ones at my shelter shy from humancontact all together. I'm also surprised to see someone give upelectricity to buy his buns food and have to go to a friends housemiles awayto get gallons of cold, fresh water for them. Icould see many heartless people opting for electricity and letting somestarve. But yes, he's in a mess. The buns are in a mess. He needs togive some up. I it seems like he probably would have sold a lot aroundEaster (even though I'm against that) but he was probably going to slowdown after that. I think he should be able to keep a few (the ones hesays are his 'buddies') as indoor pets. They should have a deal wherehe can take 4 of them, but only after they are neutered/spayed by theshelter, so he doesn't get into a mess like this again.

I just hope most of the rabbits to go loving, indoor homes. What a crazy, messy situation for the buns.

Psst...don't tell my husband but I want one of them There'sone that looks EXACTLY like Drizzle. If it's a girl....I just mighthave to sneak her home.


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## lalena2148 (Feb 26, 2007)

I tried to call SSHS and get info on the buns,but they must be very busy! I could only imagine to chaos that is 176rabbits!:shock:

If anyone would like to try to see if they are going to need fosters,their number is 708-755-7387 and their fax number is 708-755-7732.

I'm at work so I can't talk or wait on the line for long. 

Thanks!


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## undergunfire (Feb 26, 2007)

I just watched the full interview and cried myeyes out for this man. He obviously loves his rabbits so much and nowthey are taken away. He's been doing this thing for 15 years, divorced,probably has no kids. The buns are his kids. If he didn't love them,then he wouldn't have showed such emotion in the interview to make mecry my eyes out. He wouldn't be as loving to the buns that he pickedup. It showed soooo much.

I feel that she should be able to pick out 20 rabbits that are his mainfocus for breeding and showing. He should be allowed to still breed andshow, since it is his hobby and has been for 15 years. The HS shouldwatch him and do a one month check to make sure everything is keptclean and his rabbit numbers stay below 50.

He needs help to clean and fix up his bunny barns and his yard. I thinkthat if they drop his bunny numbers to only allow 20 bunnies at a time(about 50 during breeding, but then sell and be back down to 20), hewill have more money to pay for electicity. It would be neat if peoplestepped forward to send this man donations of fencing so he can buildbigger and better cages...possibly runs....since he would have morespace in his barn.

I do feel bad for the buns because they have no toys and little cages,but they do look healthy and friendly. You can't expect that barn to beneat and shiny clean with so many rabbits. They are obviously being fedand watered, none look like skin and bones. I lived in New York, I knowhow the winter freezes the bunny poop because I did have outdoorbunnies years ago.

There are heck of a lot of worse cases out there. I don't think thisone is very serious, the man just needs his numbers cut down,obviously. How about the news crew and the HS start being more seriousabout the abuse and horrors of Marshall's Ferret Farms?


Just my personal opinion. 



_- Amy_


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## lalena2148 (Feb 28, 2007)

This just in from the Red Door Animal Shelter:

"*More Rabbits Need Help--177 Taken From Breeder

*You might have already seen it on Fox News: 177 rabbits were takenfrom appalling living conditions in Watseka, IL. Red Door is partneringwith South Suburban Humane Shelter, whose humance investigators got acourt order to take custody of the rabbits. Want to help Red Door helpthe 177 rescued rabbits? Please make a donation on this web site andmark it "For Rescued Rabbits." We'll make sure that your gift is useddirectly to help the 177 bunnies. Want to join a Red Door team ofvolunteers making weekly visits to SSHS to work with the rabbits? Sendus an email at [email protected] To read more about the rescue of177 rabbits, go to Red Door's blog."

From: http://www.reddoorshelter.org/news.php#item_38

I'll call Red Door to see if they need fosters, or if they are justgoing to have to keep them till the court proceedings is over. Fromwhat they said above, it looks like they're going to keep them but needhelp. I might call them to volunteer a day a week or something. I don'tlive that close to them but I want to do what I can.

EDIT: Just read the blog for Red Door and yes, they have to keep themuntil the court case is settled:http://behindthereddoor.blogspot.com/

*Another Edit: *Got an email back from the lady at Red Door:


_"Hi Lauren--Thanks for your interest. Right now, Red Door volunteerswill be going down on Sunday, March 4 to SSHS in Chicago Heights. Afterthat, we're kind of winging it, but I assume we will be going oneweekend day for quite awhile. I'm still waiting to hear the time forSunday--SSHS is really overwhelmed right now, but I expect to an answerback soon._

_I'll keep you posted--thanks_
_Marcia"
_
I'll keep you all posted! I'm going to try to make it this Sunday if Ican, although driving is harder to do while I'm recovering from surgeryand it is quite a ways away.


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## Pipp (Mar 1, 2007)

*undergunfire wrote:*


> I just watched the full interview and cried my eyes out forthis man. He obviously loves his rabbits so much and now they are takenaway. He's been doing this thing for 15 years, divorced, probably hasno kids. The buns are his kids. If he didn't love them, then hewouldn't have showed such emotion in the interview to make me cry myeyes out. He wouldn't be as loving to the buns that he picked up. Itshowed soooo much.
> 
> I feel that she should be able to pick out 20 rabbits that are his mainfocus for breeding and showing. He should be allowed to still breed andshow, since it is his hobby and has been for 15 years. The HS shouldwatch him and do a one month check to make sure everything is keptclean and his rabbit numbers stay below 50.
> 
> ...


Amy your post made me cry. I thought exactly the same thingwhen I saw this story!Istartedlooking around my own house thinking, 'I really haveto clean up in here,the Better Housekeeping Bunny Police maycome by!'The only problem to me seemed to be thepoop piling up that was far away from the bunnies. Heprobably had too many to keep properly exercised, so you're right, heneeds to cut back, but they weren't abused, and he was playing withthem and keeping them entertained.

And Marshall Farms is now breeding and marketingrabbits. But just because theyhavethebig bucks (pun intended) from exhaustive breeding to paysomebody to shovel poop everyday,their rabbits (readroducts) aren'tconsidered abused.It'sreally sad! 

sas :cry4:


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## undergunfire (Mar 1, 2007)

I hear you. I REALLY just do not see any abusein this case. On another forum I got bashed for saying that, but it istrue, I just don't see it.

The man just needs a whole lot of help. I don't see him as a hoardereither. That's like saying a farmer with 200 milk cows is a hoarder.The farmer has his cows for a reason, it's his hobby, it's his life.This man had his rabbits for a reason, and now they are gone and he hasnothing left. It wasn't a releif to him, it was a huge stake to theheart. He had a goal to cut down his heard, but they didn't give him achance.

I don't get how they attacked this man and took away his preciousbunnies, when there is REAL abuse and torture in labratories that useanimals. Isn't that the bigger issue?


I can't beleive Marshall Farms is going to produce rabbits. This makesme so sad, VERY SAD. I bet they will all come with little dot's intheir ears indicating something too.


_- Amy_


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## lalena2148 (Mar 1, 2007)

Guys, I understand and I do feel bad for thisguy. But yes, he has stretched himself beyond his means (can't affordelectricity) and I feel he needs at least to give the shelter the sickones to get proper care. 

I do hope he gets some back, but he needs to get back on his feet. Itseems he does care about them, and...well it seems like they're hiskids. And, they probably are a big part of his livelyhood. As much as Ihate people selling buns for Easter, he probably would have made apretty penny and could have gotten back his electricity.

However, I do feel bad for the sick ones (and that they were byhealthyones)and the fact that the barn washeated. 

Either way right now, the shelter is overwhelmed and has to keep them,and they need help taking care of the 177 new bunnies. You can help byvolunteering to go help clean, groom, nail trim, cage clean, etc at theshelter or you can contact The Red Door Shelter and make a donationthat will go directly to the supplies for the 177.

And keep them and the man in your prayers that everything will work out best for everyone involved. ray:


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## MaevePotter (Mar 2, 2007)

I think several of you are a bit nuts if youdon't think that was abuse... THE MAN HAD OVER 200 RABBITS! Many ofwhom were NEAR DEATH or with serious conditions. The HumaneInvestigators said there was evidence of many going without food orwater for several days. They were also kept on wire with little to nostimulation, or medical treatment, and kept in a freezing barn. That isABUSE. The man did need help, and that's why his rabbits were takenaway. He obviously cannot handle the responsibility breeding entails.For the rabbits to be taken away, the humane investigators had to getevidence of a compelling enough sort to comply with laws regardinghumane treatment. I realize the man seemed nice in the interview, and IDO feel bad for him, his life has obviously gone wrong in a number ofareas. I would even be fine with him being given back neutered andspayed rabbits, perhaps up to 5 or so to keep him company, and that hewould be able to care for. It honestly scares me that you all could seethat video, see the many skulls rotting open in the piles in the yard,and see all of the matted fur, overgrown toenails, horrible eye andnose sores, and hear about the various diseases, and NOT think this isabuse. Would you treat your rabbits this way??


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## undergunfire (Mar 2, 2007)

I only saw one skull. I saw no matted bunny fur. I saw no long toe nails.

I haven't read anywhere where it says the buns were out of food and water for several days. Who says they were?


Remember....this is NOT goosemoose.com. This is a friendly board. I will NOT argue with anyone.



_- Amy_


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## MaevePotter (Mar 2, 2007)

This is not about being friendly it is about being educated. Those rabbits were abused.

If you watched the extended video there were several skulls. 

http://www.sshspets.org/







*Watch the video below.. *

Fox News (Chicago) update last night on the Watseka Rabbits:

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/myfox/p...le=EN-US&amp;layoutCode=VSTY&amp;pageId=1.1.1

Original Story:

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/myfox/p...le=EN-US&amp;layoutCode=VSTY&amp;pageId=1.1.1

Joan and Dave Irwin from Chicago HRS were on-site with a veterinaryteam yesterday. 8+ hours, they evaluated 70 of the 184+rabbits. Evaluations will continue daily untilcomplete. Joan indicated that *the most urgent shelter needsnow* are food and water crocks - the stainless steel bowls are beingtipped over, cages are wet. Feeding hay is a challenge if wecan't keep it dry. For folks interested in making a donation,consider crocks right now - orders can be placed through the FirstFriday pick-up.

On-Site Care: In addition to cage cleaning, significantgrooming assistance is needed. Rabbits have very long nailsthat need to be trimmed. There are Jersey Wooleys that havesignificantly matted fur. The ill rabbits (URI and syphillis)need daily penicillin injections - if you have experience deliveringinjectable medication, your experience is definitely needed.

Red Door Animal Shelter is planning a trip on Sunday. Tocomplement their volunteer support, we are arranging a tripSaturday. Please let me know if you are available to help outSaturday. Or if you could cover the Keystone Petco volunteerslot Saturday.

We have volunteers interested in Central Illinois, Southern Michigan,NE Indiana, NW Indiana, and Indiananpolis. I am happy to takethe lead on the Indianapolis carpool. Please let me know ifyou are interested in being a contact point for carpools (or meetingpoints in Northern Indiana).

Thanks,
Dawn

Hi Everyone,

I have included everyone who has expressed the desire to help out atSSHS. If you could confirm attendance and if you need a ridefrom Indianapolis, that would be helpful. We have a lot ofsupplies to transport - hay, pellets, crocks. The shelteralso needs litterboxes and cages if anyone has one to spare.

I have spoken to shelter staff at South Suburban Humane Society(www.sshspets.org). We have permission to arrive before the shelteropens. We are targeting arrival at 9am Chicago time, which is10am Indianapolis time. If you cannot make it at that time,please arrive as soon as you can, the shelter opens at noon. 

The mapquest directions indicate the drive will take 2.5 hours fromIndianapolis, a lot of this will be the trip from I65 across Route30. We will need to leave Indianapolis no later than7:15am. Departure locations TBD. If you are willingto drive/haul supplies, please let me know.

Until I hear otherwise, here is the list of tasks that need to be completed per Joan Irwin from Chicago HRS:

Feeding and Cleaning!!!

Medicate Rabbits [per Judy at shelter]: Pencillin injectionsdispensed late in the day. Several rabbits with cornealulcers need ABX ointment 4X/day. For eye medication, we willneed to triage and medicate them upon arrival, at lunch time, and againbefore departing. If you have experience with injectionsand/or dispensing eye medication, please let me know.

Sort rabbits into group by sex and health status: We sorted the groups of young
rabbits but have cages and pens of mature rabbits of mixed sex. We just didn't
have time to worry about the group dynamics of changing adult groups today. I
left suggestions with Judy who seems to be their senior vet tech type person. 
Jennifer from DCAC will go down to help tomorrow and Colleen Cameron will go
again on Thursday. I'm hoping they will be able to help with that task. After
we sort the sexes we should try to group the ill rabbits in one area. Right now
they are mixed in.

Break rabbits into smaller groups. Some of the cages have 4 or 5 adolescent
rabbits and there are a few large pens with up to 10 rabbits. Ideally, I'd like
to see it go down to 2 or at the most 3 per cage and maybe 6 in a pen. It may
not be feasible due to space limitations. We can get cages but we need space to
put them.

Grooming issues. *Almost every rabbit has badly overgrown nails that need to be
clipped.* There are quite a few Jersey wooleys that are matted in varying
degrees. A few really need to be shaved down but several just need some mats
clipped and basic grooming.

Equipping living space better. We need to introduce litter pans and get
appropriate food/water bowls in the cages. It's just fine tuning but the right
set up will make ongoing maintenace much easier.

Supplies,etc. I'd bring any small equipment like bowls, litter pans, etc. 
Food and hay will definely not go to waste. They need more cages but space may
be an issue. I'd say bring them on. At this point they don't have anyone who
needs Critical Care but it would be great to have on hand. They have very few
medical supplies. Addition: bring nail clippers!

Breaking News: Bob Krabill and Paul Cracco, regional PetcoCompanion Animal Managers, have been in touch with SSHS to obtain alist of supplies needed. Paul is working directly with thePetco Foundation to secure needed supplies to help theserabbits. Paul is also working with the Petco Foundation tosecure funds for spay/neuter once SSHS obtains custody of the rabbits.

Thanks to everyone for their willingness to help out the Watsekarabbits. I look forward to working with everyone Saturday.

Dawn


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## aurora369 (Mar 2, 2007)

"We sorted the groups of young
rabbits but have cages and pens of mature rabbits of mixed sex"

Does that mean that male and female rabbits are living in the samepens? I hope they are prepared to have many pregnant does ontheir hands. I would think seperating by sex would besomething that would be done before grouping the buns.

I can understand the haste and franticness that must have been involvedin getting the buns out, but my first step would have been to mark themall M/F by marking the ears or something.

It really does concern and worry me. As far as I know, theyhave to wait until the man goes through trial and is ordered by thecourt to not be allowed to have his buns back before they canspay/neuter any of the buns. If they are stretched to thelimit right now, what happens if half (or more) of the females havebabies?? They won't have the manpower, space or supplies toproperly handle them.

--Dawn


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## MaevePotter (Mar 2, 2007)

yeah I was worried about that too dawn.. I amhoping that the stress of the move will have stopped them from mating,or that more have been separated, but I won't know until I get there.They did mention having no rabbit people on hand, so maybe with manybeing young they didn't know how to sex them? I am not sure whentesticles decend on male rabbits..



edit er nevermind.. they said mature ones.. maybe they were being keptmixed in the barn he had them in? But that should be taken care ofeither already or by tomorrow, so fingers crossed..


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## lalena2148 (Mar 2, 2007)

Thanks for your extreme interest in thissituation, MaevePotter. I will try to make it on Sunday (but I might begoing to look at a house to buy, so we'll see). I'm going to contactthe AWL (as it's lessthan a mileaway)andsee if they are helping and if I could drop off some supplies. Maybetalk to the local Petsmart too.

And just to clarify, I don't think anyone said that he should get ALLhis rabbits back. I myself said he should get some back if they arespayed or neutered if he wanted them as pets. Or, if he wanted to breedthem, he needs to learn how to space them out so he doesn't have 200rabbits on his hands. But, I can see how people noticed that he has afondness for his animals. The fact that they weren't skiddish and theywould come up to them when he was around showed, to me anyways, that hedid spend a lot of time with them, which is more than I can say foreven some people who have them as house pets, let alone breeding.

Yes many of these rabbits were mistreated and needed help andSHOULD have been taken away. Being w/out food or water fordaysand not being properly groomed/nails clipped, it awful.One man can not fully, responsiblycare for 200 rabbits.Period. I can barely handle the daily care of 2 (1 with slight headtilt); I couldn't imagine 200, and some that require daily care forchronic illnesses! And he has no money! If he had only a few and couldsave up more money, I do feel he would have managed the situationbetter. If he wanted to continue to breed, he needs to learn to notoverbreed and to keep a steady population under like 20 rabbits at atime. Maybe even less. That way, he could better manage the buns, givethem more room to run, etc. (Although I'm more for him having only afew spayed/neutered rabbits back). But, as a farmer who makes littlemoney, I'm sure it is part of his lively-hood to breed and more thanjust a hobby. Everyone involved were victims of bad circumstances.Unforunately, the man could have taken control but the bunnies couldnot.

I just hope the bunnies can bounce back. Poor little guys.

Also, I only recall seeing one skull on the unedited video and Iwatched it4 times. He did say sometimes he had to put themdown, but he hated to do it and tried to bring them back tohealth.Don't all breeders have to put some down,evenright after some are born? Any breeders out there thatcould answer that, it would be appreciated as I really have noidea.

Yes there was some abuse and I'm glad that the buns got out of thereand get a chance to 'hop' back. However, I also feel empathy. Forexample, I had surgery last week and I couldn't change Driz and Latte'sboxes for 2 weeks. Does that mean I'm abusing them? It just makes youthink sometimes, what do these groups constitute as abuse? Yes, in thiscase, there were rabbits that were mistreated and it was clearlydocumented. But if they came to my house and saw my litter boxes full,hay all over my floor, bunnies unbrushed (even though I wasincapacitated, but I did feed them everydayl...or my husband did when Icouldn't walk) would they have taken them away? And I'm still convincedthat there was only 14 days-28 days of rabbits droppings on that floor(not 3 months like the society claims). Not that that changes anything,as it should be cleaned daily (spot cleaning) and weekly deep cleaning.But, would they have come into my house this week and told me that's 4weeks worth of droppings in my guy's litter boxes, even though I knewit was only 2 weeks?

And, I'm not defending the man. If he mistreated/mishandled them, thenthey should go. I'm not trying to start an argument either. I'm justtrying to make people think.

*It's a horrible, horrible situation for ALL involved; all the littledefenselessbunnies, the man who's buddies were taken away,AND the shelter who is overwhelmed with 200 rabbits.

*And Dawn I agree, they should have separated them. I hope they dothat on Sunday. But by then, they may have a lot that are alreadypreggers.


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## aurora369 (Mar 2, 2007)

I'm just very concerned that in rushing in tohelp (which was very commendable of them!), and not having someone onhand to sex them, that they've made an awful situation for themselves.

The stress of the move probably won't stop many from mating, and as weall know it only takes 10 seconds for a doe to be impregnated.

It would be a different story if they where going to do a massspay/neuter with in the weeks following the rescue mission.But I don't think they are doing that.

I just really would hate to see someones good intentions and hard work go sour by a bunch of does giving birth...

I hope very few or none actually got breed. And maybe the situation is a bit different than described.

--Dawn


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## MaevePotter (Mar 2, 2007)

also there was mention that many does werealready pregnant at the time, so maybe the already pregnant ones arestill with the males? anyway you look at it there will be baby bunnies..


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## naturestee (Mar 3, 2007)

I'm hoping there won't be many pregnant rabbits,but I'm doubtful. My hubby bred rabbits for 4H as a kid untiltheir shed burnt down. All the rabbits were saved, but theyhad to put them all in a livestock trailer to hold them until theycould replace the cages the next day. All the rabbits wereNew Zealands except for my hubby's pet dutch buck, and the familythought it was very funny that every single one of the does gave birthto half-dutch babies 30 days later. He beat the New Zealandbuck to every single doe.:shock:

And he obviously wasn't put off by the fire, smoke, or being unceremoniously tossed out of the shed by the firefighters.

If that won't put a buck off, I doubt a simple grab-and-transport would upset too many.:?

That's going to be a heck of a lot of rabbits.


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## Pipp (Mar 3, 2007)

Again, I agree with Lalena in every aspect of her post. 

Meanwhile, I posted somethingsimilar to the post below to theShowbunny list, a breeders boardthat's doing fundraising forPaul Craft, the bunnys' owner.

-----------

There can be a very thin line between rescuers and 'hoarders', so thisisn't breeder-specific. Irresponsible owners can be breeders,pet owners and yes, rescuers.

The ideal situation with Paul IMO would have been for the rescue groupto step in and help when the situation was first reported inDecemberwhile the rabbits were still on his property, and tosolicit help from other breeders. While I understand thatit's difficult for a non-profit to support what they see as acommercial enterprise, the bunnies already had a low-stress home with aguy who obviously cared about them, he justneededhelp. 

Now there's a duplication of efforts, the rescue group is looking forcages, foster homes, volunteers to help medicate, feed and groom them,etc, there is a volunteer call out for the property to clean emptycages, and funds are being solicited by both sides. Ultimately the only'winners' are going to be the lawyers.

It's unfortunate that the differences can't be set aside with rescuersand breeders concentrating on what's best for the rabbits.

sas


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## Beau and Belle (Mar 4, 2007)

I watched the full interview, and I think hereally does care. But that doesn't mean he should be able to keep hisrabbits in bad conditions. He just couldn't afford to breed that many.I think he should get some of his rabbits back, 5, 10, mabye even 20because he has the room (if he made bigger cages and some runs...) butall of them should be spayed or neutered.

I highly doubt they will give them all back, and my aunt has beenlooking for a baby netherland dwarf or lionhead (she loves my rabbitsand takes care of them if we go anywhere). So maybe she could find onethere once the court things are over with.


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## Haley (Mar 6, 2007)

In case anyone is interested, Best Friendsposted some info on their website. I think they had the hearing for theguy, but the judge has a few days to make a ruling.

http://network.bestfriends.org/animallawcoalition/news/12908.html


I dont understand how the ARBA can be backing this guy.


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## Spring (Mar 6, 2007)

I don't either. I have no sympathy for this man.He should have quarantined the sick rabbits at the very least, insteadof having them together with the healthy ones, but apparently none ofthem were healthy.

I hope the judge charges him with animal cruelty and the rabbits not be returned back to him. Disgusting.


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## naturestee (Mar 6, 2007)

Ok, I don't have any more pity if he has rabbitsdying of pneumonia. That's more rabbits dead so far than hesaid were even sick, so maybe he didn't even notice. And thesyphilis is a serious issue but easily controlled... by not breedingsick rabbits together and not breeding the babies from infectedmoms. Or letting them be in contact with otherrabbits. How do you let something like that spread?


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## lalena2148 (Mar 7, 2007)

*naturestee wrote:*


> Ok, I don't have any more pity if he has rabbits dying ofpneumonia. That's more rabbits dead so far than he said wereeven sick, so maybe he didn't even notice. And the syphilisis a serious issue but easily controlled... by not breeding sickrabbits together and not breeding the babies from infectedmoms. Or letting them be in contact with otherrabbits. How do you let something like that spread?


Just read the Red Door Shelter's blog. After readingthat_over 11_ have died so far since they were rescued and some littlebabies are _blind from being in such small cages_, I don't haveany more sympathy. That's just wrong. :X

Which just shows me he wasn't doing his best at all.

If these rabbits were really his buddies, they wouldn't have been treated like that. 

Drizzle and Latte ARE my buddies and I think his 3x2 condo is toosmall! Some of these buns were put 6 in ONE cage. Growing bunnies needroom...to grow! And now, a lot are blind from being up against thecages w/ their eyes. :shock::Sigh:

http://behindthereddoor.blogspot.com/


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## MaevePotter (Mar 7, 2007)

I hope this stops people from making stupidstatements in the future about being sorry for these people or sayingthey should have their pets. Humane Investigators do not take awayanimals unless it is necessary. Don't fall for the crap people spew ininterviews, because its not the truth. It's his sick twisted view ofreality.


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## lalena2148 (Mar 7, 2007)

*MaevePotter wrote:*


> I hope this stops people from making stupid statements inthe future about being sorry for these people or saying they shouldhave their pets. Humane Investigators do not take away animals unlessit is necessary. Don't fall for the crap people spew in interviews,because its not the truth. It's his sick twisted view ofreality.


MaevePotter, no statement that was involved in this thread was"stupid." Frankly, I find it refreshing that people were posting theirviews. Also, I find some things that, for example PETA does,that is completely stupid and irrelevant. And they do make crap up alot to get their point across, so why not be suspicious of others doingit? I'm the kind of person who needs to SEE it to believe it. I saw howbad it was and I believe it now. 

My point was, what would constitute as abuse? From the first interviewall they mentioned were 3 sick bunnies and crap piled up. Would thatconsititute taking them away? I don't think all of them, no. Would whatthey really have constitute taking them away, yes. 

Also,please don't be so darn negative and...condemning inyour posts (at least in regards to this thread). Everyone is entitledto their own opinions just like you. However, fyi, yours may not be theonly one or the correct one all the time. I'm not trying to be mean,but geez, I think your above post was more a 'P.S I told you so' thatwasn't really necessary. Justa thought.

(EDIT: What I meant by the last paragraph is just be aware that peoplelike myself and others DID put critical thoughts and feelings intotheir posts. We weren't just saying random "stupid statements" as youdubbed them.)


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## katt (Mar 7, 2007)

i wanted to say that i agree with lalena. . .

i personally felt that your post was rude. . . i started to reply, butwas a little worked up and needed to step away from the thread. . .

i think that with the information that was avalible when those "stupid statements" were made that everything was justified. . .

lets be honest here, the story aired on fox, and they aren't known foralways having the truth in a story or all the correct facts. . . butneedless of that the information we had been givin made the situationsound not nearly as bad as it was. . . therefore i feel completelyjustified in every word i said at the time, i don't think my thoughtscontinue as of now with all the updated information we have gotten.


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## Haley (Mar 7, 2007)

I agree, everyone is entitled to their ownopinions, thats what makes RO such a wonderful community to be a partof. We are such a diverse group with different interests and opinionsand thats OK 

I also think there has been a lot of information floating around and ithas been difficult to sort out the truth. I wanted to post an email Ireceived with a statement from well-respected Susan Brown, DVM, whichdoes help give us a clear idea of the situation. I left out a fewparagraphs at the end bc it was so long.



STATEMENT POSTED ON BEHALF OF DR. SUSAN A. BROWN, DVM

After being intimately involved with the care of the rabbits in theWatseka Rabbit confiscation case ordered by the Illinois Department ofAgriculture and implemented by the South Suburban Humane Society (SSHS)I would like to correct a lot of rampant, misleading and inflammatoryrumors that are running around about the rabbits in question. I havejust finished testifying at the hearing and I would like to make thefollowing statements.

I cannot speak for all the conditions at the breeder's facility becauseI did not see it, only pictures. The bottom line there, is that it didneed to have adequate ventilation and feces and urine needed to becleaned. There were pictures of large piles of stool on the ground andthere was ammonia from the breakdown of urine in the air. There was noelectricity in the building so the fans were not running. There wereclearly serious sanitation issues and ventilation issues withdiseaseoutbreaks as the consequence as the main concerns.

I do not believe that this was a "rabbit mill" strictly for the purposeof breeding rabbits for sale to pet stores. The animals examined wereof high quality and many were show quality. He did not have multiplerabbits that were pregnant at the time of seizure which would haveindicated he was only in it for mass production of rabbits. I think itis wrong to use this label. Judging from the quality of all his animalshe was not in it just to produce as many rabbits as possible. He wasproducing high quality rabbits of a lesser number then what would beconsidered a "mill".

98% of the rabbits I examined had NORMAL body condition. It is untruethat most were thin or wasted. The rabbits were fed an acceptable highfiber (17%) high quality commercial rabbit diet. He did not feed hay,but the fiber content of the ration was acceptable for commericalrabbitrypurposes. He may have had many other issues ofsanitation, ventilation and inadequate watering system but the rabbitswere not dehydrated and were in good body condition. There were noobese animals. Dental condition was excellent with only two rabbitswith mild incisor malocclusion. There were approximately 4 thin animalsdue to various disease issues. 

Regarding the feeding issues for these rabbits, as stated they were ona good quality commercial rabbit pellet at 17% fiber and around 16%protein. At the shelter we started them on a Purina Complete diet of20% minimum fiber and similar protein and other content. We also addedgrass hay as many of you know the many health benefits of hay, in thiscase my primary concern was to provide more indigestible fiber toprotect the GI tract (mostly the cecum) from huge fluctuationsin microflora that might occur in a population of rabbitsthat was under less then wonderful living 
conditions, stressed by the move to the shelter, stressed by the newhousing and all the sights and sounds at the shelter and for thoseindividuals stressed by overt
disease and consequent medication. We asked that NO fresh foods begiven at this time as that just introduces more new variables to a "GIfragile" population. Of course we all know that fresh greens are greatfor rabbits but in this case I knew I would have breaks of temporarysoft stools from greens introduction thus making my job of monitoringserious disease more difficult. It may take a few weeks to get the GIflora to become stablized after all this stress at which time we
will reevaluate the diet for any further additions such as fresh foods.Fresh foods are not a critical issue right now. Allowing these rabbitsto become stabilized is more important.

Approximately 25% of the rabbits had infectious disease, either rabbitsyphilis (caused by the spirochete bacteria Treponema cuniculi) orupper respiratory
infection or pneumonia. The URI and pneumonia could have been caused bya whole range of bacteria, and Pasteurella I am sure was in the mix butI am not calling this a pasteurella outbreak because that is a bitsimplistic. Suffice it to say, they were predisposed to developingrespiratory infections by poor ventilation, high ammonia levels andsanitation and by not treating the animals as they broke with disease to
help prevent the spread. In a commercial rabbitry you MIGHT have 10%infectious disease present as acceptable to the commercial industry,but this was double that
rate and was considered high. 

Rabbit syphilis is NOT fatal and is treatable with injectiblepenicillin which these rabbits have received and have all resolvedtheir lesions. URI in itself is not fatal
unless it goes into pneumonia. But of course it needs to be treatedeven in the earlier stages because it can progress and it can in itschronic state cause damage to the sinus and an uncomfortable livingcondition with clogging of the sinuses with discharge making itdifficult to breath through the nose. URI and pneumonia 
rabbits are receiving appropriate antibiotics for their treatment andmost are back to normal or are doing better. We have a total of 7rabbits that died from pneumonia based on post mortem results and havehad no further deaths from pneumonia since 3/2/07. 

The respiratory disease and the syphilis were the two most prominentproblems, again in only 25% of the rabbits. We did note that some groupfecals were
positive for coccidia which can be a common problem in rabbitries andis relatively easy to treat, but no rabbits appeared to be ill fromcoccidia, as in none were wasting away or had abnormal stools. Eachrabbit will be assessed individually for the need or not to treat thisafter we find out if the rabbits indeed will be 
turned over to the SSHS. There were a smattering of otherproblems,overgrown nails that were excessive on about 30% of therabbits, some with excessive hair
matting (only in the Jersey Woolies) that has all be groomed off. Onlytwo with serious pododermatitis on their feet. We had 10 rabbits thathad corneal edema and some ulceration possibly from traumatic injuriesfrom cagemates nails or something that was in the cage they might havecome up against (small metal point on feeder or who knows). There wereNO rabbits with parts of eyes missing!

No animals were euthanized, nor to date do any need to be.

There were NO tumors! One rabbit had a large abscess that it hadaclimated to which has since drained and will be surgically removed ifthe rabbits are turned over
to the SSHS. He is not in any pain or discomfort at this time.

Here is the overall message I would like to convey. In my opinion thiswas not a rabbit mill, this was a breeder who had too many rabbits tomanage under poor
circumstances. Of course he was selling rabbits but I do not believethat producing maximum amounts of rabbits in minimum time withoutconcern for genetic health was his entire motive due to the highquality of the animals and the low rate of pregnancies we saw at thetime. I do not feel there was evil intent, but seriously bad managementin terms of sanitation, ventilation, watering system, help
needed, and lack of veterinary services which of course affected thehealth of the rabbits which is why they were removed. I am notdefending the actions of the breeder who was unable to implement theresponsibilities to his animals, but I am suggesting that making wildand inflammatory statements about him as a person and what his supposedpurposes were do nothing to serve the best interest of
getting some education out there on rabbit care. I am saddened anddisturbed to hear reports that ALL the rabbits were ill or that MOSTwere dying or so on, which is ABSOLUTELY NOT FACTUAL. In fact, it is tothe credit of the people that investigated this case that the animalswere removed before there were worse problems and it is a testament tothe high quality of rabbits he had the not more of them were ill.


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## MaevePotter (Mar 7, 2007)

Sorry to offend, my point was that the peoplewho posted sympathy or said he should get to keep and breed rabbits,only took the breeder at his word. They just listened to what he saidin the interview and blindly believed him. I am not saying I don't feelsorry for him, but you shouldn't believe everything he says or think heis being mistreated by the humane investigators. When people aregetting investigated or getting their animals taken away, there isusually a VERY good reason. It just really upset me at the time forsome members to say "it is not abuse" it just struck me as a veryignorant thing to say.


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## lalena2148 (Mar 8, 2007)

*MaevePotter wrote:*


> Sorry to offend, my point was that the people who postedsympathy or said he should get to keep and breed rabbits, only took thebreeder at his word. They just listened to what he said in theinterview and blindly believed him. I am not saying I don't feel sorryfor him, but you shouldn't believe everything he says or think he isbeing mistreated by the humane investigators. When people are gettinginvestigated or getting their animals taken away, there is usually aVERY good reason. It just really upset me at the time for some membersto say "it is not abuse" it just struck me as a very ignorant thing tosay.


It's ok. No problem. RO is great for people to post theiropinions, so it's all good. I think it's just the wording that was usedwas sort of...abrasive. It think that's a good word to use. 

Not that I want to continue this, but I don't think all people weretaking the breeder at his "word". If you watched the video, there wasother evidence that pointed to the fact that he _wanted_ to helpthem, but was truly over extended beyond his means. I think therewasabuse (ie: the blind baby satins), but I watched the videoand noticed, although some bunnies were ill, many did look healthy(weight and coat wise). And the bunnies were sociable, which meant hemust have spent time with them frequently. 

This is supported by the fact that the vet who examined them (as Haleyposted) said"98% of the rabbits I examined had NORMAL bodycondition." That means that he was feeding them a pretty good,healthydiet.And the vet even said "Here is theoverall message I would like to convey. In my opinion this was not arabbit mill, this was a breeder who had too many rabbits to manageunder poor circumstances," which was what most people in this threadWERE saying. 

So, I guess what I'm saying is just don't assume that people are'blindly' following what the man was saying. They were just questioningthings, which is a good thing. If we didn't have people who questionedthings, we'd all be sheep. (I wish there was a sheep icon ).


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## naturestee (Mar 8, 2007)

The Red Door blog said the man was asking for 25satins back. Personally, I'd be okay with that especiallysince Dr. Brown said he wasn't breeding intensively and the majority ofthe animals were in good condition. I think he'd be capableof taking care of that smaller number of rabbits, at least once he getsback on his feet financially.

For those not familiar with her, I just wanted to point out that Dr.Susan Brown is one of the US's most prominent rabbit vets and she isvery involved with rescues and the HRS. If she's taking painsto make sure people realize that this person is not an "evil millbreeder," then he most definately is not. He's just someonewho got in over his head.


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## nermal71 (Mar 9, 2007)

While I do NOT condone abuse of any kind I dounderstand getting in over your head and suddenly going...crap now whatdo I do and feeling you have no where to turn. I dofeel for this man because I do believe he is attached to theseanimals. And while I think he is educated about them in someways he is also ignorant in others. I do believe he shouldget some of his buns back, but he should be monitored and be mandatedto keep his number of breeders under a certainnumber. I think sometimes as disgusted aswe get with people we do have to remember that they are human and whilethey mean well they do mess up. And while in thiscase it was warranted that he needed intervention and help there arecases where I have seen pet owners have serious problems withorganizations like PETA over things that should never have been broughtup.


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## Beau and Belle (Mar 13, 2007)

Just to clarify, for one thing, I don't knowwhat to believe anymore. I know what I saw in the interview. I don'tknow if conditions were worse. What I do know is he did not admit thathe was in over his head. He thought spring selling would pick him backup and he could keep doing as he was. Sure, he knew about some thingsand yes he was ignorant about others. Some people, no matter how muchthey care about the animals, don't learn. If he could he would do itagain, he would end up pulling himself and the rabbits down. Its notthat he is evil, but he doesn't think he has a problem. I have an auntlike this (okay, so she doesn't breed her cats on purpose) but sheloves them and doesn't even have finances to take care of herself.

I do not think that he should be able to breed again; this would happenall over. in the interview he did not say "now what do I do?" but hesaid he could handle it, clean up on the weekend...

Yes, you have you opinions and I have mine...


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## Spring (Mar 20, 2007)

What ever happend? I haven't heard much about it.


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## lalena2148 (Mar 20, 2007)

http://behindthereddoor.blogspot.com/

There's updates on their blog. Hope that helps!


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## Spring (Mar 20, 2007)

Oh thanks!


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## gentle giants (Mar 23, 2007)

Ok, I just saw this thread, and i would like to"weigh in' so to speak. I have never been in his rabbitry, but I havemet this guy, and seen some of his rabbits. He regularly attends, orused to now I guess, one of the shows I go to every year. I examined acouple of his bunnies, he had one I was interested in buying. All theones he had there, probably around twenty or so, looked well-fed andhealthy.
I think that he obviously has no clue about sanitation orthe spread of disease, but I will have to say-keeping an unheatedrabbitry clean in the winter is _hard._ Mine was really bad acouple of weeks ago, for the pure and simple reason that everything wasfrozen hard as a rock, and I wasn't able to clean it out. And believeme, I tried.
I also think that he is definatly in over his head, but I can tell youfor sure just from seeing him handle and talk to his rabbits at theshows where I have talked to him that he cares for his rabbits.
I agree with what someone said earlier, that letting him have say 25 orso, and keeping it below a certain number, would work for this guy. Idon't know for sure, but someone said that he had given up haingelectricity to spend the money of feed, and that he was driving to oneof his neighbor's house's and hauling water to take care of therabbits. That is a heck of a lot of work and sacrifice, and that sayscaring to me. 
Yes, he has make some serious mistakes, and yes, he is in over hishead, but I really, really think he honestly cares. Is anyone fromcentral Illinois going up there on Saturday or Sunday? If so, I wouldlike to ride along and help in whatever way I can. Heaven knows, I canat least trim nails and move rabbits into different cages.


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## lalena2148 (Mar 28, 2007)

Just got this email the other day from Red Door:

"Hi bunny folks!
We have set up our turn at SSHS for Sunday April
1st. We may also go on the 15th as well, but we'll
have to see what groups have already signed up. If
you can go on the 1st, please email me so I can
pencil you into the schedule.

Ciao Bunny!
Toni V. Greetis
Rabbit Adoption Coordinator
Red Door Animal Shelter"

Let me know (on this thread or PM me) if you want to volunteer, andI'll be happy to send you the email address. Thanks!


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## gentle giants (Mar 28, 2007)

Is there anyone else from around here that isgoing? I would like to go, but I don't really want to drive all thatway by myself. I could meet someone somewhere, partway.


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## lalena2148 (Mar 29, 2007)

*gentle giants wrote:*


> Is there anyone else from around here that is going? I wouldlike to go, but I don't really want to drive all that way by myself. Icould meet someone somewhere, partway.


Where do you live? There's a slight chance I might be going, butthere's also a slight chance that I might be house hunting as well.I'll let you know for sure by tomorrow what's going on.


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## gentle giants (Mar 31, 2007)

Anybody know anything yet? I am about 45 minutessouth of Champaign, BTW. I will give no more detailed directions- thereare to many self-proclaimed bunny nappers on here!


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## naturestee (Mar 31, 2007)

According to the Red Door Shelter's blog, thebreeder won the appeal and will be getting the majority of his rabbitsback. That's quite a change from getting none ofthem. I wonder what happened? I'm a bit concernedabout him getting that many because he obviously couldn't afford tocare for them. Hopefully he'll be selling most of them off tocut down on his numbers.

http://behindthereddoor.blogspot.com/


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## cmh9023 (Mar 31, 2007)

I really wish they had only given him 20-25 backat least until they could be sure he didn't get overwhelmed again. Iwas going to go with WI HRS in April, but I got a note saying the tripwas cancelled because he got them back. As far as adoption goes, Ididn't quite understand, is he himself looking for homes for some or isRed Door keeping some and looking for homes?


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## Hippity_Hoppity (Mar 31, 2007)

wow, i am shocked... that they gave him thatmany back.... he may have truely loved his rabbits, but it seemed ithad gotten out of control... I seriously hope thatthey keep checking up on his rabbits and their care... i pray that wedont hear about something like the situation that he had happen anytimesoon.


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## lalena2148 (Mar 31, 2007)

Hey gentle giants, turns out I can't go (btw, Ilive 45 minutes north of Chicago Heights). I forgot that Ihave to do my taxes :banghead. Yeah it sucks, but it must get done. Letme know if you go. 

If anyone would like to go, contact Toni Greetis at[email protected]to sign up.


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## gentle giants (Apr 1, 2007)

Don't feel bad, I wound up having to work anyway.


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