# Newly Adopted Rabbit Attacked Me



## Stormlark (Oct 4, 2012)

I've had her for a couple of days and she was pretty docile and friendly up to this point. I was hoping to bond her with my neutered buck, but their third match-up became so violent I don't think it's going to work out (nor would it be safe to keep trying). She's supposed to be spayed, but I'm wondering if this sudden extreme aggression could be due to hormones.

After breaking up the fight and taking Stelio (the male) back to his pen, I went back to do the same with her. I was not expecting her to attack my hand, though I realize she was still riled up from the fight. The initial bite isn't as worrisome as the fact that she kept coming at me, biting my leg as I was hopping out of the makeshift pen. I ended up having to use a towel to pick her up and put her back and she was still trying to get at my hands.

Now I'm afraid to do anything in her pen. Even getting close makes her grunt and lunge at the bars. This is insane. I've never been scared of a rabbit before. When I adopted her, I let the shelter know that if the bond didn't work out that I would switch her out for another spayed female and see if I could find a good match. They were surprisingly supportive of the idea, telling me not to feel guilty if a return is necessary. I'm thinking of returning her tomorrow, though I feel bad about doing it so soon. I haven't even had her for a week.

Any ideas on why she's gotten so violent? Hormones? I once rabbit-sat a spayed female and she made an impressive nest, lining it with fur and everything. Maybe this little gal falsely believes she's pregnant? 

If anyone's had a similar experience, did the rabbit ever calm down and accept you or did the behavior continue?


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## whitelop (Oct 4, 2012)

My rabbit is not spayed and she gets cage aggressive sometimes. Its like every few months, she goes nuts and attacks my hands when I try to feed her or do anything to her cage. When she is being cage aggressive like that, I have to lock her out of her cage to clean it. She has only bitten me one time, but she has lunged at me countless times. She is bonded to me, but she still gets aggressive because of hormones. 
How long ago did your bun get spayed? Maybe it is the hormones. I don't know how it goes with rabbits being spayed and the hormones, so I may not be of much help. 
She could also be nervous because she hasn't been at your house for that long and you're trying to bond them already. I'm sure its upsetting for a rabbit to go from the shelter to a new home and then to a new bun friend. Its got to be shocking for them. 

That may not be of much help.


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## Stormlark (Oct 4, 2012)

I don't know when she was spayed, but it may have been very recently if she was altered at the shelter.

I was originally going to wait to try and bond them, but http://www.cottontails-rescue.org.uk/matchups.asp suggests a "fast track" approach to bonding. They claim to do around 300 "speed-dating" bondings every year. After reading it over, I thought that perhaps the newness of her environment would encourage her to seek comfort from him. I was thinking it might be similar to the "car ride" technique, but this might not have been the best idea. 

I made a make-shift pen in an area neither of them had ever been, so the male was shaken up as well. He seemed much more interested in being friendly than she was though, that may have been caused by the recent upheaval of coming home from the shelter. She really did seem very friendly towards me from the start, coming right up to the bars when I got near. During the first meet-up between the two, she was frightened and actually jumped in my lap and hid her head beneath my arm.

I've had the male for two years and he's never been as social as she was (up until this attack). It didn't seem to be submissiveness or shyness that made her docile. She was cleaning her face, eating treats out of my hand and flopping/binking near me. Her pen was so small at the shelter, I figured she was just happy to have so much space. That's why I was so surprised. It was such a turn around. 

Even if the biting and aggression towards me stop, I doubt she'll ever bond with the male. There's a video of a bonding attempt that's about as violent, and the speaker says that such a sudden and immediate reaction usually means it's never going to work.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsLM7MgHtgc[/ame]

So, I don't know. The way the pens are setup and our routine out-of-the-cage social time, it's difficult to keep an unbonded pair. They're in a two story cage, and can sniff at each other where the ramp meets at the top (I have it blocked off, but the ramp is stationary). With how they're getting along now, it seems to be agitating them both just by being neighbors.


:?
I'm confused.


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## agnesthelion (Oct 4, 2012)

Sorry to hear of those issues. You had made good progress! But the way I understand it is bonding can be ups and downs. How violent was the fight? If it was pretty bad and your gut is telling you that they won't bond then don't feel guilty about taking her back. I have the same arrangement with my shelter here.
With that being said, now i didn't see the fight so can't say for sure, but it doesn't necessarily mean they won't bond. Sometimes bonds can take a looooong time. If you want to attempt again then I would start over completely.
As far as that YouTube video, I saw that fight coming a mile away. Yes you are suppose to have tunnels and places for them to hide, but that was a corner enclosure. That female felt trapped in there! And what if they would have both gone in there to fight? UHg, it just didn't feel like the best setup to me. And did you see the male raise his tail? She should have intervened immediately. From what I read, the key to bonding is to never let it get to that point and try to watch for those subtle signs. Not always easy, but in that case it was pretty apparent a fight was about to happen.

I also, if I were you, separate them more if you can. Maybe they are too close to each other? Also, in the article I posted for you on the other thread, it suggests that you alternate cages so each one doesn't become territorial over one. That's an idea for you too.

As far as the female being aggressive, not much advice there  my female has never been like that about her cage. But as Morgan posted it is very common. And like you said she could have been upset from the fight too. Maybe give her a day or two to calm down and see where things are after that.

Let us know what you decide to do. Believe me, I understand how stressful this can be. I'm no where near a bond yet and nervous for how things could go. Those fights are scary looking!!


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## JBun (Oct 4, 2012)

Being in a new house and meeting a new bun may have just been too much for your girl rabbit and the attacking might have been because she was just too scared. I took one of my rabbits outside to play on the grass one day. I had her on a leash and was sitting on the grass with her and a dog started barking and she got scared and hopped onto my lap. The dog kept barking and my sweet little bun climbed right up my shirt and bit me on the shoulder. I put her down on the grass and she bit me on the arm. Apparently I wasn't taking the hint quickly enough that she was scared and wanted to go back inside the house.


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## Imbrium (Oct 4, 2012)

I believe it can take as much as a month for females to be totally rid of the hormones, so if she was spayed recently, that could be adding to the problem.

if fights are a possibility, you might want to keep an oven mitt handy to avoid accidental injury when separating bunnies


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## Stormlark (Oct 4, 2012)

Great advice, everyone.

She's much calmer today and is eating out of my hand again, but still a bit on the grumpy side. Stelio has decided that he's not speaking to me anymore and goes inside his hiding box every time I come near. This isn't unusual for him, though. Anytime I have to handle him (like clipping his nails for instance), he holds a grudge for days. He loves being petted, but HATES being handled.

The switching of the pens might be a great start. The main problem being that Stelio only uses the top story's litter box, even though there's one for each floor. I was expecting some aggression from him over the pen arrangement, since he normally has complete access to both floors. The bottom level she's in now is certainly what he considers part of his home and he's well aware that she's down there. Besides some bites from him on the first two meet-ups, however, he's been behaving himself much better than any other attempted bond.

As for the fight... it was the worst I've seen for any bonding attempt I've made, mainly because of the blind aggression she was exhibiting. There wasn't any sniffing, circling, mounting, chasing, or posturing. She just flat out launched herself at him in a locked fight with no discernible trigger that I could tell. He wasn't trying to get close to her and the make-shift pen was large enough to give each other space. I don't know if a bond would ever be possible judging from how it went last night, but hormones might be playing a big part here.

From what I've seen around the internet on "when bunnies attack," nearly every single one was a doe and most of them were pregnant. As I mentioned before, I've seen a spayed doe exhibit nesting behavior and cage aggression, so it wouldn't be illogical to assume that's what's happening here and it's likely that she was spayed within the last month by the shelter.

The video I watched and linked did make me cringe because the lady wasn't breaking up the fights. I would never put two rabbits together without being right there to intervene if it turned violent. With this last fight, I was able to get them separated before either was injured, but that was mostly luck. The oven mitt idea is something I'll definitely have to try out, for my own safety.


I have plenty of time to return her for a switch, so I'll give her a couple more days, switch up the pens, and try another meet-up in a week or so.


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## Blue eyes (Oct 4, 2012)

Some of what you are going through sounds similar to what I recently went through. My girl lost her husbun mid-summer. We brought a boy home from the rescue that was the sweetest thing. He seemed very willing to accept her, but she was the problem. I also have the scars on my wrist from stopping her from attacking him (before I discovered my oven mitt!). I tried cages near each other. I tried neutral territory sessions. I tried switching them in & out of each other's cages. 

I also kept a bonding journal each day so I could track what was going on. I totally understand having feelings of guilt in considering switching one bun for another. I wrestled with it for quite awhile. It was almost 2 weeks of attempts at bonding until I reviewed my journal with new eyes and realized that things were going downhill. Sure, I'd see the occasional 'positive' sign, but they were far outweighed by the negative. The lunging attacks were becoming the norm. If I had been more honest with myself, I would've seen it sooner.

I know some say that, with persistence, any bond can work. But I have come to the personal conclusion that sometimes the stress isn't worth it -- stress for the buns and stress for me. Both buns have to be willing partners. 

You could always call the rescue and ask how recently she's been spayed. If that proves not to be a factor, then I'd consider trying a different bun. 

I did end up switching that boy out. I know it sounds crazy, but, with the rescue's encouragement, we actually brought 2 brothers home to match with my girl. Somehow, having 2 has tamed my girl down and the 3 seem to be getting along quite well (it's been 3 weeks). 

I should also mention that I had a similar incident years ago with a different rabbit. I brought a boy home to my girl, but this time it was the boy who instantly attacked her any chance he got. I knew in a couple days that it would not work. I switched him out at the rescue and the next fella bonded easily with my girl.

I guess what I'm trying to say with all this talk, is that you should follow your gut. If your gut is telling you that this isn't going to work, then try another bunny. :wink


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## Stormlark (Oct 4, 2012)

If I do switch her, would it be better to give Stelio some time by himself to calm down or would removing the barrier for a while make him territorial about the lower level again when I bring a new girl home?

My husband is sad that it's not working out because he really liked the doe. She is surprisingly friendly towards humans (except for that one incident of attacking me). When I was at the shelter, there was another doe that I really liked and the one I'm planning on trying next. The only downside for her was that she was a year older than this one and she has the red eyes that are typical in albinos (apparently that freaks out my husband). The eye thing is weird since she's not completely white. Her ears,nose, and paws are black.

https://www.idahohumanesociety.org/adopt/view-pet/?petid=17215035


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## Imbrium (Oct 4, 2012)

you could always give him some time by himself without removing the barrier if you think he needs a few days to just chill, that way next time you bring a bunny home it's only one thing changing instead of two.

I agree with the others to follow your instincts and not feel bad about returning her if it looks like trying to bond them will be a serious uphill battle (if not impossible). it's like dating for humans - sometimes you meet someone and you just don't "click" or you even outright dislike the other person. even if she was just lashing out because she was stressed or having a tough day, bunnies DO remember fights.

it may be worth calling to ask just how long ago she was spayed and keeping them separate but near each other until the hormones subside if the spay happened recently, though.


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## Blue eyes (Oct 4, 2012)

*Stormlark wrote: *


> If I do switch her, would it be better to give Stelio some time by himself to calm down or would removing the barrier for a while make him territorial about the lower level again when I bring a new girl home?
> 
> My husband is sad that it's not working out because he really liked the doe. She is surprisingly friendly towards humans (except for that one incident of attacking me). When I was at the shelter, there was another doe that I really liked and the one I'm planning on trying next. The only downside for her was that she was a year older than this one and she has the red eyes that are typical in albinos (apparently that freaks out my husband). The eye thing is weird since she's not completely white. Her ears,nose, and paws are black.
> 
> https://www.idahohumanesociety.org/adopt/view-pet/?petid=17215035


Hmmm.... With one switch, I did it on the same day I returned the other. That was with the one I only had a couple days.

But with my recent one, I actually completely separated the two for a week. I moved the boy upstairs completely out of sight and let my doe have back the whole downstairs of our house. She was ecstatic. It took her a few days to get back to normal. I think that worked well. 

In the meantime, I worked out a brand new neutral area to put them in when they came home. I used a bedroom that my doe had never been in and used an x-pen for their "bonding area." This is where they've been for the past 3 weeks. 

One thing you might want to give some thought to is the transport. I didn't want the scent of the rejected boy anywhere on the carrier I planned to use to bring the new bun home. -didn't want to sabotage the bond from the start. 

I can sympathize with your husband's thoughts on red eyes. They creep me out too. But, ya know, I took a look at your link and I think that girl is really cute. I don't know what it is, but her eyes don't have that same effect on me. (oh, and we also adored that first boy we tried with our girl. He was super sweet with us. That's what made it so tough. It was sad, but it just wasn't working. ) 

I don't know how territorial the males are. I know the girls are much moreso, and I've only introduced/brought males to females, not the reverse.


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## majorv (Oct 4, 2012)

I am by NO means an authority on bonding, but if you've only had her a couple of days, did she have enough time to get acclimated to her new surroundings before youput her with your bunny?


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## Imbrium (Oct 4, 2012)

*Blue eyes wrote: *


> One thing you might want to give some thought to is the transport. I didn't want the scent of the rejected boy anywhere on the carrier I planned to use to bring the new bun home. -didn't want to sabotage the bond from the start.


that's definitely something to think about! if you have a few extra NIC panels, a bit of coroplast or cardboard scrap and something to clip a lid shut with, you can build a new 1x2x1 or 1x1x1 carrier


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## Stormlark (Oct 4, 2012)

I called the shelter, but no one answered, so I left a message asking about her records and when she was spayed. They haven't returned my call yet and they just closed for the day. 

She's calmed completely down now. The two-story pen sits in our mostly-rabbit-proof living room, so I opened her door and let her run around a bit. She keeps surprising me with how friendly she is to me. I was sitting on the floor and she came right up and jumped into my lap. She's also the most confident rabbit I've ever seen, jumping up on the couch and exploring the place like it's been hers the whole time. We spent about an hour together, until Stelio started giving me the jealous stink-eye, so I switched them up and let him out next. 

They both seem much happier since the fight, and I've decided to keep her around for a few weeks before coming even close to another meeting (I think I'll keep them separated by a divider next time to reduce any chance of injury). I'll also try some cage-switching for a while. She's just amazingly sweet and I really don't want to give up on her so soon. At the same time, if this insanely aggressive behavior towards Stelio continues and I end up making a switch, it'll be heartbreaking if I get too attached.

onder:


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## Stormlark (Oct 4, 2012)

*majorv wrote: *


> I am by NO means an authority on bonding, but if you've only had her a couple of days, did she have enough time to get acclimated to her new surroundings before youput her with your bunny?


I agree that I moved too fast. With other rabbits I tried, I waited longer before bonding attempts. I think part of what made me try so early was her confidence and generally contented behavior only hours after she was brought home. She didn't act nervous or frightened or shy, so I thought she'd be OK with a few short and supervised visits between the two. It's very likely that I was wrong, or her hormones are still out of whack, or a combination of both the new environment and being recently spayed. 

Either way, I don't plan on getting them back together any time in the near future. Not until I'm certain they've both gotten used to each other as neighbors.


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## Imbrium (Oct 4, 2012)

best of luck to you and your bunns 

with the way you describe her behavior, I kind of wonder if she's the sort of very dominant bunny that just doesn't like to have a bunny companion :S


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## Stormlark (Oct 5, 2012)

Things are still going well with them being separated. She's still being friendly and Stelio is still holding a grudge against me. He's even refusing to eat his favorite treats I put in his cage. (Common behavior from him. He's a superstar at holding grudges and is generally very jealous of time spent with other rabbits)

On a side note, There's something unusual about the back story on the doe from the shelter. On their website, there was a no-named female rabbit listed that looked like the one I ultimately ended up adopting, but the description was that she was found on the side of the road and was "approximately 1-3 years old."

When I went to the shelter to spend some time with all the spayed females, there was one that looked very much like the one that was "found," but had a completely different story. Her name was "Ms. Flippy," she was a year old, and was surrendered by her owners because she didn't get along with their other pets (no specifications on this, so it could have been dogs, cats, guinea pigs, snakes, who knows..). I took this into consideration, but decided to give her a try because she was friendly, seemed to be happy even in the shelter, and was fairly young. Besides, my own rabbit didn't get along with other pets either, but I was hoping he just hadn't found the right partner and the same might have been true for her.

The thing is, after adopting her, the only rabbit that was removed from their website was the no-named female that was found, and come to think of it, there was never a "Ms. Flippy" on there to begin with. A bit strange...

Did they change her story to make her more adoptable or was there a clerical error somewhere? And why didn't anyone call me back about my inquiry into her medical history?

*grabs tin foil hat* 

=O


ETA - Don't feel too bad for Stelio. I set everything up exactly the way our social time normally goes (TV on in background, plate of fresh veggies on the couch, lights off), and he's getting over the grudge as I'm typing this.


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## agnesthelion (Oct 5, 2012)

That is very interesting about the no name rabbit and ms flippy. I have heard of shelters changing stories or exaggerating to make animals more adoptable, but obviously cant say for sure here. When and if they do call you back about her spay records, I would just ask them.

Stelio sounds like quite the character. Just reading about the twos personalities seems to me to explain a bit. He sounds uber sensitive and likes his routine and no change. And she sounds confident and a bit headstrong  that could explain why their bond may be a *little* more difficult and may just be needed to be taken really, really slow. I don't think a bond sounds impossible, just that maybe things went a little too fast for their personality types.

I think it's great that you are holding back for a couple weeks. I would continue what you are doing with alternating play time and such and the cage switching and go from there.

Best of luck to you. I will be following your story and rooting for you guys all the way!!!


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## Nancy McClelland (Oct 5, 2012)

Some shelters aren't a reliable source for any info. When we got "Nick" from the Tracy shelter, the listing said "mixed male mini". The name we gave was "Bunnicula" from the book, "The Celery Stalks at Midnight". Turned out to be really mixed as he was really a she when I checked for my self after 3 days, so, the name became "Nik-Nik" and she was one of the sweetest little bunnies there ever was--really miss her.


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## Stormlark (Oct 5, 2012)

Here are some pictures of Stelio with his brother Sterling when they were both little. Their mother was an outdoor "free-range" rabbit that was part of a group of five other females, kept in a family member's back yard. She was impregnated by accident when two more "females" were added to the group (hint: one of them wasn't female). Within a month, there were twenty or so baby bunnies running around everywhere. 

The mother of these two was unfortunately killed by a cat a few days before they were weaned, and the cat brought poor little Stelio home to her owners to brag. He had some bites that were infected and was in digestive stasis when he was given to me. I'm the official animal expert among friends and family, so I'm given a lot of orphaned and injured animals. Most of the time, I take them to a vet (at my expense), which is what happened with Stelio. 

Thankfully, he pulled through and although I had never had rabbits before, my husband and I decided to keep him and his brother. Of course, at that time, we didn't know whether they were male or female. Shortly after we discovered they were both males, the bond was broken and they became bitter enemies before they were big enough to be neutered. We kept them both for a few months after the alteration, but they never got along after that and were stressing each other out to much being in the same home.

We gave Sterling a nice home with a friend of ours, and that went well for about a year and a half, but very recently he got sick. Again, being the wildlife expert, the friend gave him back to us to care for. He had an inner ear infection and by the time we received him, had lost all sense of balance and could no longer walk. I tried everything I could to save him over the next two months but in the end he had to be euthanized.

Stelio is still around though, and does very well in the two-story pen I personally made. In these pictures, the pen is lined with pine shavings. Shortly after posting the picture on another rabbit forum, I was told that wasn't very good bedding material so I lined it with carpet instead. It's a great setup and only cost about $250 in materials. That's pretty good considering it's five and a half feet tall, three feet wide, and six feet long.

Anyway, on to the pictures! Stelio is the orange cream colored one and Sterling is the gray. My husband insisted on naming them himself, so Stelio is from a character in an "American Dad" episode, Stelio Kontos. Oh, yeah... before the pictures you should hear his theme song!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYDGZt-E89w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYDGZt-E89w[/ame]

Sterling was named after Sterling Archer from the show "Archer. " 



















My camera is being finnicky at the moment and I recently formatted my hard drive so I can't access any pictures of Stelio as an adult or the cage with the carpet lining, nor can I get any pictures of the doe.

I'll try to get all that working in a few days so you can see them both. :biggrin:


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## JBun (Oct 5, 2012)

Cute pictures! I hope things work out between your two buns.


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## tamsin (Oct 5, 2012)

Re your original post, when they get worked up, they often react to movement rather than taking the time to work out what the movement was. So she would probably have pounced the same way if something inanimate moved near her just the same as she did with your hand. The next sense up seems to be smell so if she takes long enough to sniff but you smell like the other rabbit you can still get attacked (mistaken identity). It's nothing personal, it can just take a while for them to calm enough to put all the info together a realise who you actually are.


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## Stormlark (Oct 6, 2012)

*tamsin wrote: *


> Re your original post, when they get worked up, they often react to movement rather than taking the time to work out what the movement was. So she would probably have pounced the same way if something inanimate moved near her just the same as she did with your hand. The next sense up seems to be smell so if she takes long enough to sniff but you smell like the other rabbit you can still get attacked (mistaken identity). It's nothing personal, it can just take a while for them to calm enough to put all the info together a realise who you actually are.



That makes sense and explains a lot. Thanks!


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## Stormlark (Oct 8, 2012)

There's no way these two will ever get along. Today while I was at work (thankfully my husband was home), the doe managed to nudge aside the barrier between their pens enough to initiate a fight with Stelio. We've had several rabbits separated with the same barrier, and even the ones that hated each other never managed to do this. Although my husband broke up the fight and reinforced the barrier, both of them were extremely agitated when I got home. So we decided as a last resort to attempt the car ride method.

No dice. The problem is the doe is just insanely confident no matter what's going on around her. I was in the backseat, armed with my oven mitts and it was insane how intent she was on hurting Stelio. I got a few bruises through the mitts from how hard she was biting, and after about ten minutes we gave up. It's just too dangerous. She's biting too hard and being too aggressive. I don't want anyone to get hurt (myself included).

Although she was the sweetest little girl we've ever had (to us), she's just too violent with Stelio and even separated, they're still upsetting each other.






Stelio wasn't hurt, btw. I was able to keep my hands in between them enough to prevent her from biting him.


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## agnesthelion (Oct 8, 2012)

Oh goodness. I'm so sorry to hear this.  if there is any silver lining in this at all is that I think you should be proud that you tried Very, very hard. It's not like you gave up after a day or two. I think you were thorough and moving forward probably will cause you and the buns more stress.

So is your plan to take her back to the shelter? Will you bunny date again?


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## Blue eyes (Oct 8, 2012)

I understand your frustration since we went through a similar situation. Sometimes 2 bunnies just won't get along. I believe you said you could still exchange the one? Is that what you think you are going to do?

We had to do this twice now -- once back in 2004, and once about a month ago. It worked out for the best since we ended up with good matches. (Still crossing fingers on the current match, but so far, so good).

Hope things work out well and you find the right match.


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## Stormlark (Oct 8, 2012)

My plan is to take her back to the shelter later today . I'll trade her for the one I linked earlier in the thread and we'll try again. I'll tell the shelter how sweet she is to humans, because she really is a sucker for pets (if you stop, she follows your hand and squeezes her head under it). 

I'll switch the pens bringing Stelio tn the bottom level, to make it easier to keep them separated, and making social time less stressful. If he's in the top level, we have to pick him up to take him out each night, which he hates. Hopefully he'll figure out where the litter box is in that level so we don't have too much of a mess.

It'll still be difficult to handle whoever lives up top, but the new doe will need a few days with some peace and quiet anyway, so it should be fine.


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## Blue eyes (Oct 8, 2012)

Good luck today and keep us up to date. Post pics of the new girl when you can.


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## agnesthelion (Oct 8, 2012)

Yes, good luck and post pictures. I'll still be following!


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## Stormlark (Oct 8, 2012)

Some photos:

The new doe is named "Tink." I really like that name.












I did get a picture of the one we returned today, in case anyone was curios:








And a good picture of Stelio as an adult:


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## agnesthelion (Oct 8, 2012)

Aww they are all such attractive buns 

Tink is a cute name. I'm normally not a red eyed bun fan but she's pretty gorgeous!

Stelio is very handsome as well. Love his coloring. 

Seriously let us know how this goes. I'm so curious  when do you think you'll attempt things with this one?


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## Stormlark (Oct 8, 2012)

I've never really thought about rabbit breeds before, but after some research today, I'm pretty sure that Stelio is a Palomino and Tink is probably Himalayan (a bit too small for a Californian).

I'm going to give it a couple of days before having them meet face to face. All I've done today is to let Stelio smell my hands after petting her. He was intensely curious about this smell and ended it by chinning my hand (cute!).


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## Imbrium (Oct 9, 2012)

aww, the new girl is ADORABLE! as are the others, of course


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## Stormlark (Oct 9, 2012)

I decided to do a preliminary introduction between the two in a neutral area, where I would referee and keep them from coming into contact with each other. It went OK. Positive signs were that they both ate and groomed occasionally, which showed they were at least a little comfortable in each others' presence. There was some stress, a nip at my hand, and near the end they seemed to want to get into a fight. But all in all, it went fairly well.

I'll try to do this daily, to get them used to being in the same area together, before going further. Hopefully in a week or so, they'll be more comfortable and calm.


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## agnesthelion (Oct 9, 2012)

Kudos on the good first meeting 

I hope it continues and things are more positive this time. Remember though, she just came home last night. Not saying its necessarily too soon but just don't rush things too much. She still has to get used to her new home too.

At the end when you say "they wanted to get into a fight" what were the signs?


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## Stormlark (Oct 10, 2012)

Hmmm, Tink is definitely more timid than the last doe. I let her out last night for super-special-awesome-fun-time, but she whimpered a few times and kept thumping. I brought out a few boxes for her to hide in, but to no avail. She was scared being out in the living room and kept trying to jump up towards her cage. After about fifteen minutes, I put her back. 

As for the meetings, I do think it's best to put everything on hold for now. I was trying to figure out a good course of action, and I'd like to find some see-through barriers before any more attempts. I want them to be able to see each other, but not get too close to each other, for any future dates. Also, her fear last night being out of her cage is a clear sign she's not feeling comfortable in her new environment yet.

The "fight" was simply lowered heads and running towards each other (chasing, but the other wouldn't run away, so they were going for each other). It only happened twice near the end, and I think it'd help to have an actual barrier rather than a referee. My parents have a lot of chicken wire, so I'll try to fashion something out of it. I need two barriers because I want a space in between, so there aren't any slap fights through the wires.


The idea being that if they can see each other in a safe environment, being offered their favorite foods, they might have a better association than if they meet each other for the first time face to face.


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## agnesthelion (Oct 10, 2012)

That's how I've been bonding Agnes and Archie. Their cages are right next to each other a couple inches apart. They can see each other, smell each other and their bowls are close to each other so they can eat at the same time. I also switch blankets and toys back and forth too.


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## Stormlark (Oct 16, 2012)

I arranged their second play-date today. The way I did it this time was to partition off the kitchen like I'd done before, and then separate that space in half using a "trap" as part of the barrier between them. The trap is basically a cage used to capture wildlife such as raccoons and feral cats. It's very long and narrow, and the best part is that it's see through without allowing the rabbits to claw at each other. 

I waited until they both seemed fairly comfortable (eating the lettuce I offered and grooming themselves), then moved the inner barrier so they had a section where they could meet each other, and sat in that spot so I could referee. My strategy was to keep them separated, but with treats in the middle, so they ended up eating within about six inches of each other. 

Every once in a while they'd touch noses, and once or twice there was a grunt and a bite, but it was easy to separate them and they'd go back to eating pretty soon after. Before putting them both back in their pens, I set them side-by-side and petted them until they were both quite happy. I'm hoping this will get them more comfortable being right next to each other.

My plan is to do this sort of meet-up daily for a week or so before giving them the freedom to establish dominance. The idea is to calm them down so they'll be less likely to get into serious fights that might ruin their chances of ever bonding.


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## agnesthelion (Oct 16, 2012)

Well that is good. It sounds like moving very slow will work better with your buns personality. What were the bites like? Was one bun initiating biting more than the other?

If it makes you feel any better, I'm doing a slow approach to bonding too and it has bee going well.


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## Stormlark (Oct 17, 2012)

The bites weren't serious at all. It was more like a short lunge and a nip, and both times it was from Tink (the doe). She seemed calm and content throughout the meeting, doing much more grooming and eating a lot more. Stelio was far more stressed about the whole ordeal, sometimes breathing so fast that it made a whistling sound. I think he's still traumatized by the crazy aggression from the previous doe. 

Heck, I think I'm still traumatized myself. Every time they tried to get close to each other, I stopped them because I was too scared that they'd get into a serious fight. So I'm wanting to take things slow for my own peace of mind as well as theirs.


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## sugarbunnies (Oct 17, 2012)

Stormlark wrote:


> *majorv wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I am by NO means an authority on bonding, but if you've only had her a couple of days, did she have enough time to get acclimated to her new surroundings before youÂ put her with your bunny?
> ...



Oh MAN, this is so true with what I had done in my thread (Heated Introduction). I was confidant about how brave Mr. Niki was, but I guess I did not think correctly.


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## Stormlark (Nov 4, 2012)

Well, things have been pretty positive for the most part. There was some bitter fighting near the beginning, but they're used to each other now. I can have Tink running around the living room and she no longer spends her free time trying to instigate fights through the bars of Stelio's lower level pen. Tonight's match-up had a few spats, but generally they got along. The "spats" are far less intense than the fighting I've seen before. I no longer need an oven mitt. I can just push them away from each other and they calm down immediately.

The last issue is dominance. Tink is the only one displaying dominant behavior like mounting, and Stelio tolerates that to some degree, but he refuses to groom her. So they spent about thirty minutes tonight in a "groom me" battle, each trying to get their head under the other's, and then being stand-offish and annoyed with each other when neither relented.

The time limit to return her to the shelter is almost up, but I feel like this could work eventually. We've only got two days left, so I'll try to focus on this bonding as much as I can between then and now and hope for the best. The contract with the shelter is that if I return her within thirty days, I get my money back. If I return her within sixty days, I don't get a reimbursement, but I don't face a penalty, either. After sixty days, it's no longer considered a "return." Instead, I have to pay a fee to surrender her and I will be listed as her previous owner.

She really is a sweet gal, and even if they never bond enough to have them share their pen, it won't be as difficult to keep them both as long as they aren't actively trying to harm one another.


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## agnesthelion (Nov 4, 2012)

Maybe try applesauce on their foreheads. That can encourage grooming.

Im surprised after 30 days there are still fights. But if you are seeing progress then that is good. The article I referred you to awhile ago talks about that, ANY progress is good.

If you are able to house them seperate then things should be fine. And I've read stories where it took 8 months to bond buns so it still could work!


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## Stormlark (Nov 5, 2012)

Housing them separate is easy enough. The problem with having two bunnies who hate each other is that they spend all of their free time in the living room trying to get at whoever is still in their cage. That and they end up running themselves ragged pacing back and forth in their pens because they can hear each other. That's why it hasn't worked out keeping unbonded bunnies in the past.

These two are doing fairly well for the most part. Tonight's match-up went rather badly with regards to fighting, but had some VERY positive behavior mixed in between. At one point, Tink pushed herself up against Stelio and then flopped, so she was spooning him. He just kinda sat there looking annoyed, though. They're still having trouble because neither one is willing to be submissive. 

It looks like that's changing, though. Tink groomed him on several occasions, though she was a bit "bitey" about it. Tink also stopped mounting and seems to be switching to a more submissive role. That would be great, considering Stelio is the stubbornest creature I've every had. I really think this could work.

I decided to give it another thirty days. Trying too hard today caused more stress, which is why it went badly, I think. I need to give it more time and go back to doing things slowly.


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## Stormlark (Nov 11, 2012)

Tonight's play date was very positive. I'm fairly certain they'll end up bonding and I'm glad I decided to give Tink another month. Their posture was completely different tonight. They were both relaxed and curious and respected each others' space. I decided to give them more room, so I moved them to the bathroom floor. Besides two nips at the very beginning, there was no fighting and even Stelio felt confident enough to munch on the vegetables I offered. 

Great match up. I know they're not exactly grooming each other or desperately in love, but the fact that they were both comfortable being in the same space is a fantastic sign. I can't quite explain the difference in their behavior except to stress how relaxed they were.


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## Imbrium (Nov 11, 2012)




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## agnesthelion (Nov 11, 2012)

Great news after a long road for you!!


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