# THICK BROWN PEE!!!!!!!!



## SablePoint (Mar 2, 2011)

I need some help REALLY REALLY BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last night I took Mr. Bun Bun to the vet for his sneezing and less-active behavior. I found out he has arthritis and a respiratory infection.

He is on 5cc of Baytril every 12 hours for 9 days.

He is also on 4cc of Metacam every 12 hours for 2 days then 1 dosage a day.

Last night I gave him both meds at the same time. He's a real pain in the fluffybunnybottom to give meds to so I try to get it done all together.

After his dosage last night, I noticed he peed all over the place. Lots of pee too. I thought it might be a side-effect from the Metacam. We've used Baytril before with no issues. I also thought that maybe taking the 2 meds at the same time might have caused a reaction. 

But this morning I gave him his meds maybe a few minutes in between each other.

But, again, he peed all over the place, but this time the urine was very strange and not healthy looking. It was really thick, esp. when it started to dry. I could peel it off a towel.




It was poop-brown. I thought it was cat vomit at first till I saw the spray on Rocko's cage.

Here are pictures of the pee on a white towel:














^ Picture of crumbles I'm peeling off.








Spray on Rocko's cage:





Trails of pee on my carpet:





Please help!

Regards,

SablePoint


----------



## naturestee (Mar 2, 2011)

Looks like possible bladder sludge to me. I know you just had him at the vet, but I'd call. Sometimes sludge forms because of a urinary tract infection. He may also need a low calcium diet. Until then, push fluids and wet his veggies down before you feed them to him. He needs fluids to help rinse the sludge out.

The sludge and/or UTI are likely causing the incontinence.


----------



## pla725 (Mar 2, 2011)

Definitely looks like sludge. I've seen worse. Sounds like you have a really sick bun. Hope everything works out.i


----------



## SablePoint (Mar 2, 2011)

I went through bladder sludge with Mr. Bun Bun some years ago, although the pee was white. It cleared up on it's own, though I had to buy these expensive timothy hay-based pellets during some time.

The irony of this is that he is on a pain killer and antibiotic right now - which is what my urologist gives me when ever I pass a kidney stone.

Do you think that will help? Can I give him some cranberry juice?


----------



## SablePoint (Mar 2, 2011)

I gave a call to the vet and they said that rabbits get that when they don't drink enough fluids.

But that doesn't make any sense cause Mr Bun Bun drinks normally! What else could be wrong?! How could he get such a nasty case of bladder sludge? Some body throw me a bone. I hate being confused.

Wtf should I do(other than see a vet cause I'm BROKE)?!


----------



## naturestee (Mar 2, 2011)

I feed my rabbits cranberries as a regular treat. I keep them in the freezer and just give them a frozen cranberry once in a while. You could give them to him every day if you wanted.

I would recommend that you have the vet check him.


----------



## Pipp (Mar 2, 2011)

Yikes, stop the Metacam first off. The Metacam will restrict the plasma flow to the kidneys, which is why it should never be given to a dehydrated rabbit.

And how big is the rabbit? A four or five pound bunny shouldn't get more than .25 at the most. 

Slightly flavor a crock of water with some juice, soak all his veggies in cold water, and do whatever else you can to rehydrate him.


sas :clover:


----------



## SablePoint (Mar 2, 2011)

Mr. Bun Bun is 5 pounds. His picture is in my avatar. He's a holland lop mix. 

BTW, what's ".25?" How can I tell on the syringe? It doesn't show that.

This explosive peeing happens right after I give him the meds. I have a strong feeling like it could be a reaction. This is the first time I've ever seen pee like this. 

I searched up "bladder sludge" and sure enough, there are pics that look just like Bun Bun's pee! I had no idea bladder sludge came in different shapes, colors, and sizes. I always thought it was just white pee that dried chalky like Bun Bun had one time.

Can you tell me how to measure .25? How many times should he take it? Thanks.


----------



## Pipp (Mar 2, 2011)

Stop the Metacam. I wouldn't give him any Metacam at all. It's a pain med, I don't think he's in pain, except the effects of the Metacam itself. 

But for the record, .25 works out to not much more than a few drops. How much has he gotten? 

I'd also get some Pedialyte, a baby rehydration drink, and start feeding him giving him some of that with a syringe. 


sas :clover:


----------



## Pipp (Mar 2, 2011)

PS: Depending on the concentration of the drug and what you were told the dosage should be, if this was a mistake on the part of the vet or the vet's office and he did get an overdose, I'd strongly recommend going back to that vet and getting them to do free subq fluids and a free blood test to assess his kidneys, which could be damaged.


----------



## SablePoint (Mar 2, 2011)

Is 0.4cc every 12 hours an over dose? That's how much he takes. He took his first dose last night and his second this morning and another dosage in a few minutes(I don't think I'm going to do it)Just asking if that's too much. He has to take it orally every 12 hours for 2 days, then once daily. I hope his kidneys are alright! I'd hate to start an argument with the vet. Bun Bun has arthritis, what other pain med should I use? Thanks.


----------



## Pipp (Mar 2, 2011)

If you're really saying 4 cc's -- which is a thimble full or so -- that is at least 10 times the recommended dose if its the regular concentration. 

Even if it's not an overdose, the reaction is typical of a Metacam reaction in a dehydrated rabbit. 



sas :clover:


----------



## SablePoint (Mar 2, 2011)

It says .4 cc's on the bottle but marked on the syringe is 0.4 Sorry if I confused you with 4 cc - that would be alot!


I just called my vet agian and he said to take him off of it for a few days and see how he reacts. He said it might of caused him an upset stomach and he didn't want to drink last night and today. I'm going to stop giving him Metacam, just the Baytril.

I took him out to run around and his pee is still the same. But he hasn't sneezed today, I hope that's a good sign that the Baytril is working for his sneezing!


----------



## slavetoabunny (Mar 2, 2011)

My Sparky is 5 pounds and her daily dose of Metacam for her arthritis is .15cc's.


----------



## Flash Gordon (Mar 2, 2011)

i got my Herc thru bladder sludge twice ..i spiked his water with 100% cranberry juice...not the fake stuff with tons of sugar....all throughout the day i refreshed his water bowl with fresh cold bottled water and cranberry juice...i soaked his veggies of course and also he needs to move ...bladder sludge lays on the bottom of their bladder ..so if u make sure he gets moving alittle bit .he will mix it up with all these liquids ur giving and when he pees it out it will be more diluted...so it wont hurt as bad coming out.. ...small stuff but it works really well.

if he doesnt like the cranberry which some buns dont...use whatever you can find to make him drink more.sugarless apple,peach,chamomile tea .



when i first looked at the pics i thought it was baytril that he spit back out ..but u said he pees like that still...it really looks like the crappy liver baytril ive had to use before...


----------



## SablePoint (Mar 3, 2011)

So .4 cc's is too small now? 

Could it really be the Metacam? Or did he already have this before and the color and thickness was a reaction to the meds? 



If I can flush Bun Bun's urinary tract out and he starts having normal pee again - should I go back to giving him his metacam again? The vet said that there is not many pain pills for rabbits and metacam is the most used one.
Bun Bun is still sluggish and less agile like before, laying down all the time. I know he's still in pain. 

I can't have him suffer anymore. It makes me want to cry every time I see him lay down and do nothing. He's not even interested in the new rabbit much.


----------



## SablePoint (Mar 3, 2011)

Mr. Bun Bun LOVES craisins. I forgot I had some. I gave him a huge hand full last night and they're gone!Do you think craisins will help? I also just mixed his water bottle with fruit punch(REAL fruit punch, not that artificial flavored crap). I haven't payed attention to see him drink it, but last night I saw him drink his water.

Last night, I also gave him some banana to help rehydrate him if he's dehydrated and I gave him some kale I soaked in cold water. He still has some banana left but the kale is gone(well of course, he loves kale).

Tomorrow is grocery shopping day, I'll pick up some cranberry juice and see what he thinks of that.

Any thing else(not pricey)that I should pick up at the market that may help Bun Bun?

Thanks!


----------



## Flash Gordon (Mar 3, 2011)

craisins are way to sweet and full of sugar..those are treats given at minimum ..if u cant find the 100% cranberry juice..then get the sugar free cranberry juice...pay attention to the discription on the bottle cuz they say 100% cranberry "JUICES"...but what they mean is all dif kinds of juices in it...makes me mad that they try and fool people like this..100% cranberry juices is the most expensive so read the label....apple juice is good .no sugar added...and u really only need to put a little bit in the water..not alot.i put in his crock enough to fill the bottom and thats it..the rest fresh cold bottled water...no more fruit punch.. u need real fruit juices..just buy any sugarless u can find in ur price range..apple juice is gonna be the cheapest.dont give him too many more treats ur treat is going to be this juice water ur giving..he wont need anymore sugar trust me...buy veggies that can hold alot of fluids like,romaine,celery,..
alot of people say no to this but it worked for my Herc when he had wayy worse bladder sludge then ur pic shows..i didnt have any metacam for him for his pain..,cuz bladder sludge is very painful i even heard him cry out when he went potty once...anyways i gave him regular ol aspirin.
heres how its administerd if u wanna try it..i did notice a dif in Herc after i gave him the aspirin,remember alot of people say no to aspirin but it worked for Herc.
and this info is off of another forum for rabbits.

Rabbits can have 100 mg per kg of body weight every 4 to 6 hours.

To determine his kg weight ~ divide his weight in pounds by 2.2

Example: 7 lb. rabbit = 3 kg

3 kg x 100 mg = 300 mg dose for a 7 lb rabbit

Regular aspirin is 325 mg.


----------



## tonyshuman (Mar 4, 2011)

I would actually not use a NSAID in his case. They all can cause kidney problems. Ask the vet for a narcotic pain med like Tramadol or buprenorphine. They are what is commonly given for pain related to urinary tract issues because they do not cause damage to the kidneys. He probably also needs supplemental fluids, either sub-q or oral if you can get him to take oral. I would try to get around 10mL of fluids into him orally every other hour or the vet should give at least 100mL sub-q. The reason for so much fluid is to flush the sludge from his bladder.


----------

