# Mini Lop vs. Holland Lop



## HappyFarmBunnies (Jul 26, 2011)

I breed only Nethies and Polish, so I know nothing about the lop-eared rabbits. I am dying to have one and *maybe* get a breeding trio down the line, but I'm not sure which breed to go with. I understand that the Hollands average about 2 pounds less in size than the Mini Lops? Are there any other differences I should know of? I would love to hear from owners of both. 

I would also like to know what color you would suggest so that I could have at least two colors (best would be three!) that would be intercompatible if I did get a breeding trio. I don't like blacks. Thanks so much!


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## hillrise (Jul 27, 2011)

I would say that Holland Lops are more similar to your current bunnies in personality. Mini Lops are rather laid back and less feisty comparatively. I haven't owned either breed myself, but my 4-H kids have brought in some to our club.

Mini lops also have longer ears compared to their head. Their head isn't as round as a Holland (Hollands actually carrying the dwarf gene, like the Netherlands).

I prefer Minis to Hollands, myself, but I think going with what you already have, a Holland would be a better fit.


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## MiniLopHop (Jul 27, 2011)

:yeahthat:



But if you want to breed snuggle bunnies, minis are the way to go. Then again, I am biased. These are my two taking a nap:












I hope the picture turns out this time?


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Jul 27, 2011)

I prefer the temperment of the Minis..but you already have the hollands attitude with what you have and deal with the dwarf gene in your Neatherlands. 

Colors are going to be like the neatherlands, tan based, agouti, shaded, exc.. 

Pick a color that you like and then its easy to find 2 that are compatable.


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## HappyFarmBunnies (Jul 27, 2011)

Thanks for the responses. I think I have settled on the Hollands. I almost prefer the head shape of the Mini's more, but I adore the Holland size. 

Orange is by far and away my hands-down favorite in Hollands, so I am thinking of an orange buck, a broken orange doe and a black harli doe as my trio. I have to investigate the genetics a bit more because I don't know much about harli's, but I think that will give me some pretty neat solid, broken and harli offspring. 

SO EXCITED! WHEEEEEE!


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Jul 27, 2011)

I would personally get the broken orange as a buck...and then breeding it to the two does you will get the brokens and the solids =) and possible tris with the harlie doe.


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## HappyFarmBunnies (Jul 27, 2011)

Well I thought that if I had a solid orange buck, breeding it to a broken orange doe would give me solids and brokens, and then harli's with the harli doe.


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Jul 27, 2011)

I guess I just didnt see the purpose of more unshowable babies. I dunno. And I'm not sure if you would get harlie kits that way. I'm not great on genetics, I just know, what I get from true harlies. I haven't bred to an orange, so I don't know for 100%


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## hillrise (Jul 27, 2011)

You only get tris if you cross a harli or tri with a broken or tri. In rex, we cross tris with broken reds (orange) if we don't have a tri to breed them to, since harlis aren't an accepted color. Either way, it results in some charlies and some solids (only some of which will be harli if breeding to reds, and the harli isn't homozygous on the japanese gene), but about half should be broken/tri depending on the harli's japanese/extension genes.


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## HappyFarmBunnies (Jul 27, 2011)

Hillrise, do you know what would happen if I bred a harli to a solid, then? I don't much fancy actively producing Charlies, and I'm not specifically after tri's.


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Jul 27, 2011)

its not just the breeding to a solid issue, its what the harlie is based. Like I had a black magpie buck get in with a black fuzzy doe. I had 2 black kits and one Black jap kit. The black is a self, and its believed that my magpie buck is self based.


orange is aguouti based.... the harlie could be tan, self, or agouti, which is what will play a part in it. 

confusing, no? lol

Mysti on here has some harlie lionheads, not sure what she breeds them to, and what kits she gets. I'll FB her and ask her to come back on here.


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## mistyjr (Jul 27, 2011)

Thanks Crystal! 

I breed the harlie in lionheads. I started with a black x chestnut and got my Harlie baby. I breed him to an orange doe and got 1 harlie and 1 orange, I bred him to my REW doe and I got 2 Magpie harlies.


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## HappyFarmBunnies (Jul 27, 2011)

Thank you Crystal. I so appreciate your help. I have to say, I have been really disappointed with the response I've gotten from Holland breeders the last few days. SO I really appreciate your helpfulness.


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## mistyjr (Jul 27, 2011)

Crystal is sure a sweetheart and a great person 


Do you want to start with the Tri? I have a list of colors that you can start your own Tri lines and works with a Harlie.


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## HappyFarmBunnies (Jul 27, 2011)

A harli from a black and a chestnut, now I am really confuzzled and defused. What the hay?!

Although for my purposes, I am thrilled to hear that from a harli/orange pairing you got one harli and one orange. It might be fun to have a harli just to see what I will get.


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Jul 27, 2011)

and the harlie from a black and chestnut, the chestnut is agouti, and so is the harlie gene..... not sure what else poped up through there to get it, but lol the agoutis!


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## mistyjr (Jul 27, 2011)

I love love :heartbeat: Harlies... And now i got 2 magpies from a rew and harlie breeding, I am sure in love with what i got!  Here I will show you some pictures of them!


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## HappyFarmBunnies (Jul 27, 2011)

I absolutely adore harlis. I don't even care that they're not showable, I melt into a puddle every time I see one.

Misty my goal is to have an orange-based breeding trio because I am head-over-heels-crazy-in-love with the orange. So I was thinking of a solid orange buck, a broken orange doe and a black/orange harli doe. That way I have a fun shot of getting solids, brokens and harlis from those three.

Unless I'm just spouting nonsense, which is quite a possibility. I'll just blame it on the juice. ;-)


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## mistyjr (Jul 27, 2011)

THE DAD (Harlequin Lionhead)









Harlequin x orange breeding









Harlie x rew breeding


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## mistyjr (Jul 27, 2011)

I love the harlie and i also love the oranges. So we are on the same boat just in different breeds! :biggrin:


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## mistyjr (Jul 27, 2011)

colors that work with Tri's & harlie's
they are:
Broken Black
Broken Blue
Broken Red/Orange
Broken Lilac
Broken Siamese Sable

first litter out of the those type will not be tri's but are now carriers
You then take the best broken does back to the Harli sire to get your tri going.. And use no broken that haves tort in the background.


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Jul 27, 2011)

very cute and adorible


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## hillrise (Jul 28, 2011)

Since you asked, here's a quick(ish) genetics lesson on Harlis.

There are 5 genes that code for rabbit color (plus some others that define white spotting, as for Dutch or Brokens). Those five gene series are A, B, C, D, and E. Each series has at least two options, and every rabbit has two genes in each series (which can be the same option or not). Only the most dominant option will show through, but whatever the other option is, it is "carried" meaning that it can be passed to their offspring, and it might show up if the other parent has the same gene or one which is less dominant (recessive).

The gene responsible for harlequin is in the e-series, written as ej, and is only dominant to e (which is responsible for the color orange on an agouti rabbit, or tort on a self rabbit, as determined by which gene they have in the A series). Sorry that's so confusing...not sure how else to put it.

Anyway, most harlequins are aa (solid), C- (full color), ej and ej or e. (B and D simply determine if they're black, chocolate, blue or lilac). So a black japanese harlequin will be aaB-C-D-ej-.

Magpies are the result of not having the fully dominant C on the C series. In particular, they get the cchd (or chinchilla gene), which makes any would-be red fur come is as white. That's why you were able to get a magpie out of two rabbits which weren't harlequin at all--one must have carried ej, and the other carried ej or e, and the non-rew must have been Ccchd (since the rew could only have been cc).

All harlequins (japanese or magpie) are solid rabbits, although it's possible to have agouti ones.

Because the genes involved are all recessive to some degree, you can get harlequins out of rabbits which are not themselves harli.

If you breed an orange to a black japanese harli you get this cross:
A-B-C-D-ee (orange) x aaB-C-D-ej- (black jap harli)

which will most likely result in agouti harlequins, unless the orange carries tort (would be Aa), in which case you would get proper harlis. If the harli carries tort (would be eje), you could get reds. And you would get torts if both carry tort as described. There's lots of other possibilities if either carries chinchilla, sable, seal, himi or rew (all C-series genes), but one would hope that none of those genes are hidden under either orange or harli.

Sorry that's so long, but I'm a bit of a nut when it comes to genetics...


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## HappyFarmBunnies (Jul 28, 2011)

Hillrise, thanks so much for your input. It really cleared a lot of things up for me. I have a basic grasp on the 5 gene series but I've only ever worked with the En gene with my brokens and ignored the rest of the E series, haha.

So an orange to a black/orange harli will result in oranges and harlis for the first generation? Or will those agouti harlis be in the first generation of that cross? And if so, do agouti harli's appear any different phenotypically than solid harlis?

Or if I'm understanding you correctly, then if the orange has tort, the harli's in the first generation of that cross would be proper harlis.


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## hillrise (Jul 28, 2011)

Pretty much unless one or the other actually carries torts, you'll end up with agouti harlequins...so they should be expected to be chestnut with orange harlequin patches.

If only the orange carries tort, then you will get the chestnut harlis and black/orange harlis.

If the harli carries tort, then you will get chestnut harlis and oranges.

If both carry tort, then you should get chestnut harlis, regular harlis, oranges, and torts.


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