# Hey Misty - we wanna see your new bunnies!



## TinysMom (Jul 12, 2010)

For those who don't know - Misty has been rehoming rabbits in breeds she doesn't want to focus on - to add into her herd rabbits for her lionhead and wooly breeding since she knows she wants to focus on that.

I know the new bunnies won't be new births - but they are NEW ADDITIONS to her herd...

So let's see some photos Misty!!!!

:biggrin:


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## mistyjr (Jul 12, 2010)

Thanks Peg! :rose:

I have gotten 2 new babies on Saturday July 10th. I am only working with Jesery Woolies and Lion-Head,

*The first baby is an Broken Black Wooly Buck Brood Buck. Nancy the Wooly Breeder gave me the rabbit for free. She wanted to help out a new breeder and get me on my feet. 
I dont have a name for him yet.
*















*Here is the second baby that I got at the show. She is a Blue Fawn Lion-Head Doe. She will have Double Mane. 
And I dont have a name for her yet either!

*


























*I hope you really enjoy!! :big wink:*


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## TinysMom (Jul 12, 2010)

Misty - I know what the breeder told you - but she's got to be harlequin with those black markings.

I know - I love harlies!


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## mistyjr (Jul 12, 2010)

The breeder told me that she is Blue Fawn. A few others never heard of them. And I was reading the pedigree and yes the father was a Harlequin and the mother was a black. But I love the color myself. :nerves1:hiding:


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## wooly_queen (Jul 12, 2010)

Cute buck! I love his eye markings.  But he can't be shown because he has no nose marking.... I hate that. lol I have a buck that only has a spot on his nose, but some judges let the spots pass.

Def. a harlequin and not a fawn.


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## mistyjr (Jul 12, 2010)

*wooly_queen wrote: *


> Cute buck! I love his eye markings.  But he can't be shown because he has no nose marking.... I hate that. lol I have a buck that only has a spot on his nose, but some judges let the spots pass.
> 
> Def. a harlequin and not a fawn.


Yes! I know about the spot on hes nose. That is why he will be a brood buck. And he is very cute and a very good bunny


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## dixonsrabbitry1 (Jul 13, 2010)

Wow I handled that same rabbit after she got it, and never noticed the black markings on it. It looked like a fawn to me too. I had never heard of a blue fawn until then either.


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## mistyjr (Jul 13, 2010)

But in her background she haves, Fawn, Otter's, Harlie, Blacks, Chestnuts.


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## lelanatty (Jul 13, 2010)

How hard is it to breed Harlie out?
And... can't there be no such thing as Blue Fawn? Because fawn is a lighter/dilute orange?

If it were a fawn/orange color with a blue undercoat it would be a Lynx. 
I suspect foul play. We need someone who really knows their colors.

I just googled "blue fawn rabbit" and found a UK rabbit breeders web site. They call their Torts "fawns." For example, a black tort would be called a "sooty fawn." There was also a "blue fawn" listed there, which would be a blue tort. That is the only connection I can find.


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## TinysMom (Jul 13, 2010)

*lelanatty wrote: *


> *How hard is it to breed Harlie out?*
> And... can't there be no such thing as Blue Fawn? Because fawn is a lighter/dilute orange?
> 
> If it were a fawn/orange color with a blue undercoat it would be a Lynx.
> ...



It can stay hidden for generations....and generations. 

I had one of the earlier lionheads named "Blue Boy" who is on many pedigrees (way way back). He was blue - but he hid harlequin.

I heard of it popping up 9-10 generations later on and when breeders would try to track back where it came from - it would almost always be because he hid it. (He also gave off GORGEOUS harlequins though).

I once bred him to a chestnut - hoping for opals. Imagine my shock when I got a harlequin in the litter. Apparently - it can happen (I forget what else the doe carried).

What I was told early on was this - if you want to breed harlequins - consider them like "another" breed. Never take anything you get from a harlequin breeding (even if it seems to be free of harlequin) and breed it back into your "other" lines. Only use the offspring for your harlequin program and WARN every breeder that is even considering buying your rabbits if there is harlequin in the background.

As I told Misty earlier - I always had waiting lists for harlequins from Miss Bea....not as show bunnies - but as pet bunnies. Here is Miss Bea - and a few of the harlies we got from her over time...

















*Edited: I pulled photos that I think were the ones someone complained about due to size...I'm sure Miss Bea can give you an example of what a harlequin can look like.*

My best breedings where when I took harlequins to torts and fawns. Oranges did not turn out as well. 

Technically, Miss Bea was a tort lionhead.


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## lelanatty (Jul 13, 2010)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> My best breedings where when I took harlequins to torts and fawns. Oranges did not turn out as well.
> 
> Technically, Miss Bea was a tort lionhead.



So in Misty's case she has a tort LH buck right? So she could still breed this new doe she got to her tort---- with the responsibility of telling her future bunny customers that there is Harlie in the background. 

This is good. At least she isn't completely SOL that someone sold her anon-existent colored rabbit. :biggrin:


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## mistyjr (Jul 13, 2010)

Yes, I have an Black Tort Buck.


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## Nancy McClelland (Jul 13, 2010)

dust bunnies?


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## leo9lionheads (Jul 13, 2010)

Its not hard to breed out the harlequin if she uses strictly torts as the harlequin gene is dominate over the tort gene. so if she breeds the harlequin to just her tort buck anything thats not harlequin wont carry the harlequin gene. If she starts breeding to blacks or blues, colors that are not non-extension like tort thats when she will have problems with the harlequin gene hiding like with her first LH litter. Shes a cute doe and I will have to admit I have a tort buck who has a harlequin on his dam's side but since I know he doesn't carry it I have no worries to breeding him to any of my does.

Misty who did you buy the doe from?

Edit: The extension allele has 2 basic genes E and e, e the non-extension gene changes the rabbits color when a rabbits has two of those genes making it a tort and then other genes like agouti or shaded they modify it to orange or sable point. When you have rabbits with at least one of the full extension genes, the big E, its a black then modified by other genes like agouti and shaded to chestnut or Siamese sable. Then there are mutations of those 2 gens such as the harlequin gene e(j). Its dominate over the little e but hidden by the big E so if you just breed to torts in a generation or two depending if shes e(j)e or e(j)e(j) you can breed it out and not have it pop up again in your show rabbits misty and people are always looking for pet lionheads and really love the exoctic colors for pets so the harlequins would be perfect for that.


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## fuzz16 (Jul 13, 2010)

i love the harlequin color in rabbits personally....for pet side its a good though


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## mistyjr (Jul 13, 2010)

*leo9lionheads wrote: *


> Its not hard to breed out the harlequin if she uses strictly torts as the harlequin gene is dominate over the tort gene. so if she breeds the harlequin to just her tort buck anything thats not harlequin wont carry the harlequin gene. If she starts breeding to blacks or blues, colors that are not non-extension like tort thats when she will have problems with the harlequin gene hiding like with her first LH litter. Shes a cute doe and I will have to admit I have a tort buck who has a harlequin on his dam's side but since I know he doesn't carry it I have no worries to breeding him to any of my does.
> 
> Misty who did you buy the doe from?
> 
> Edit: The extension allele has 2 basic genes E and e, e the non-extension gene changes the rabbits color when a rabbits has two of those genes making it a tort and then other genes like agouti or shaded they modify it to orange or sable point. When you have rabbits with at least one of the full extension genes, the big E, its a black then modified by other genes like agouti and shaded to chestnut or Siamese sable. Then there are mutations of those 2 gens such as the harlequin gene e(j). Its dominate over the little e but hidden by the big E so if you just breed to torts in a generation or two depending if shes e(j)e or e(j)e(j) you cna breed it out


Hosner's Seven Maples Sanctuary


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## leo9lionheads (Jul 13, 2010)

interesting never heard of them she is cute though.


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## mistyjr (Jul 13, 2010)

They were located outside of the back of the barn between some cars.


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## mistyjr (Jul 13, 2010)

*leo9lionheads wrote: *


> interesting never heard of them she is cute though.


Where were you guys located??


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## Jashaira (Jul 13, 2010)

wow your Jersey is too cute I so want a broken buck for my blue girl. She had kits last week but lost all 4 of them  Congrats on some nice new bunnies.


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## leo9lionheads (Jul 13, 2010)

We at first where right next to the food wagon outside the other building and after a few of the more popular breeds finished up we where on the back wall between the two doors.


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## mistyjr (Jul 13, 2010)

*Jashaira wrote: *


> wow your Jersey is too cute I so want a broken buck for my blue girl. She had kits last week but lost all 4 of them  Congrats on some nice new bunnies.


Thanks! He is sure cute too. And I am sorry about your babies!


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## mistyjr (Jul 13, 2010)

*leo9lionheads wrote: *


> We at first where right next to the food wagon outside the other building and after a few of the more popular breeds finished up we where on the back wall between the two doors.


Did you had LH's up for sale, And werent they all boys?


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## leo9lionheads (Jul 14, 2010)

Yep I had some seal and sable point bucks for sale.


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## Nela (Jul 14, 2010)

Hey Misty? I'll buy alllllllllllllllll your harlie babies! LOL. I absolutely looove harlequin. I know they aren't technically good for shows and all but I love them as pets. :biggrin2:


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## mistyjr (Jul 14, 2010)

*leo9lionheads wrote: *


> Yep I had some seal and sable point bucks for sale.


Yeah,, I was located by the bathroom outdoors.


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## mistyjr (Jul 14, 2010)

*Nela wrote: *


> Hey Misty? I'll buy alllllllllllllllll your harlie babies! LOL. I absolutely looove harlequin. I know they aren't technically good for shows and all but I love them as pets. :biggrin2:


They are cute,


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## mistyjr (Jul 14, 2010)

I need names ideals for these 2 babies??


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## leo9lionheads (Jul 14, 2010)

really? I only saw french lops next to the bathrooms, its to bad I wish I could of seen your babies.


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## mistyjr (Jul 14, 2010)

They were down closer to the barn.. We were right in front of the bathroom doors next to Mini Rex's..


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## mistyjr (Jul 14, 2010)

*mistyjr wrote: *


> I need names ideals for these 2 babies??


For the Harlequin Doe LionHead I picked.... Cermentis 

Jersey Wooly Broken Black Buck.... Iggy Domino


And JadeIcing helped me picked out a name for my Chin (JW/LH) Baby

GrayAsh


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## schneider1022 (Jul 16, 2010)

A dilute fawn is a cream it can be referede to as a dilute orange as well, and a cream is an Agouti! 

Your baby lionhead is adorable, I don't think she is a fawn of any sort just a lightly marked harlequin...


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## mistyjr (Jul 17, 2010)

Thanks


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## mistyjr (Jul 17, 2010)

*schneider1022 wrote: *


> A dilute fawn is a cream it can be referede to as a dilute orange as well, and a cream is an Agouti!
> 
> Your baby lionhead is adorable, I don't think she is a fawn of any sort just a lightly marked harlequin...


I have talk to you before. I have bought my Lion-Head Black tort from Wisconsin at the May rabbit show. And you were I believe sitting next to the lady that I bought him from.


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## TinysMom (Jul 17, 2010)

*schneider1022 wrote: *


> A dilute fawn is a cream it can be referede to as a dilute orange as well, and a cream is an Agouti!
> 
> Your baby lionhead is adorable, I don't think she is a fawn of any sort just a lightly marked harlequin...



Welcome to the forum - I just wanted to point out that what I was told about harlequins (years ago - based upon my harlequin lionheads) was that if the rabbit was harlequin (true harlequin) it would show some sort of orange/darker coloring. Otherwise it could be a "tort harlequin" or a "fawn harlequin" or stuff like that. I think there is even "blue harlequins" but don't quote me on that - I've been out of the harlequins for a bit.


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## mistyjr (Jul 17, 2010)

But she does have blue tips on her ears and nose.. But thats what the breeder said that she was a blue fawn. And I thought there was something wrong. But she does have a lot of Fawn in her background


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## schneider1022 (Jul 17, 2010)

Yes we did talk before, and yeah we were sitting next to the lady that you purchased yours from  the sire of the one your purchased is actually from our rabbitry.


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## schneider1022 (Jul 17, 2010)

Her Harlequin lionhead does show the darker markings like a true harlequin should there just a lot lighter..... There color does lighten alot with age and can easily resemble a tort that is why some harlequins are sold as torts and there producing/cary harlequin. 

Harlequins come in chocolate, lilac, blue, and black, and there color can be orange or tort harlequin. 

We do have experience with breeding Lionheads since 07 , and with the Harlequin breed its self.


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## TinysMom (Jul 17, 2010)

*schneider1022 wrote: *


> Her Harlequin lionhead does show the darker markings like a true harlequin should there just a lot lighter..... There color does lighten alot with age and can easily resemble a tort that is why some harlequins are sold as torts and there producing/cary harlequin.
> 
> Harlequins come in chocolate, lilac, blue, and black, and there color can be orange or tort harlequin.
> 
> *We do have experience with breeding Lionheads since 07 , and with the Harlequin breed its self.*


just gotta say its nice to see another lionhead breeder on here (even if I've been out for about 2 years now).

I love the harlequin lionheads....


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## mistyjr (Jul 18, 2010)

Yeah! We bought the Black Tort Buck... Everybody or some said on here that hes not a good Lion-Head but he is sure loosing that fur and its coming in very good.


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## mistyjr (Jul 18, 2010)

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=57733&forum_id=8


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## TinysMom (Jul 18, 2010)

*mistyjr wrote: *


> Yeah! We bought the Black Tort Buck... Everybody or some said on here that hes not a good Lion-Head but he is sure loosing that fur and its coming in very good.


I just went and checked that other thread - seems to me that the fur was only part of it.

Unfortunately - you can't molt your way into good type if you have bad type and long ears, etc.

Some things can be helped with time - others can't.


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## dixonsrabbitry1 (Jul 18, 2010)

hey misty, a pointer I want to give you, sometimes when you are at a show looking at rabbits to buy, get a second opinion from another exhibitor or a judge. With judges you want to talk to them before the show starts. most are nice enough to give you an opinion on a rabbit you want to buy.


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## mistyjr (Jul 18, 2010)

schneider1022 was actually next the the lady that I bought the Lion-Head from.. And some of lines came from her rabbits.. And I have talked to a few Lion-Head breeders in Michigan and Wisconsin and they like him and my other Lion-Head doe said shes a keeper.. Yes, I need to take him to the next show and see what they have to say about him.. People on the internet cant hardly tell by picture then real life.. But like I said I have talked to other breeders also.


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## schneider1022 (Jul 19, 2010)

Lionheads are all unique they don't all look the same that is partially why there not a recognized breed it is hard to find alot of consistency between what one person is breeding for and what another is breeding for.

If you have been out of breeding them for about 2 years now its going to be harder to know what is going on with the breed unless your working with them on a daily basis. in my opinion 

I have noticed since breeding lionheads you CAN NOT judge them by a picture some look 2 X worse than they actually are and some look 2 X better than they actually are and some look in the picture as they are. She dosent' have him properly posed in the picture so that would throw you off thinking he is bad and he is very much in his baby coat yet in that picture witch would make it look like he is bad... some lines take a while to shed out and some lines shed out right away. 

http://www.schneiders-little-lions.webs.com (website with our lionheads


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## TinysMom (Jul 19, 2010)

*schneider1022 wrote: *


> If you have been out of breeding them for about 2 years now its going to be harder to know what is going on with the breed unless your working with them on a daily basis. in my opinion


Well - I disagree but whatever.... :biggrin:

I stay connected with lionheads by checking out the wins - visiting certain websites on a regular basis and seeing what breeders have (especially the long-term ones), etc.

I may not post on the lionhead rabbit list - but I read it on a regular basis and stay in touch with many breeder friends.

So I feel like I know a pretty good amount about not only what has gone on with the breed - but what is going on with them even now.


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## TinysMom (Jul 19, 2010)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> *schneider1022 wrote: *
> 
> 
> > If you have been out of breeding them for about 2 years now its going to be harder to know what is going on with the breed unless your working with them on a daily basis. in my opinion
> ...


I meant to add - I am toying with going back into the breed and have already picked the rabbitries I will work with based upon their stock and my first-hand knowledge of putting hands on rabbits and judging them.

What is interesting to me - from seeing photos on the forum is that frequently I will see something - only to have our wonderful ARBA judge Pam Nock come in here (who handles the rabbits on a regular basis) and confirm that what some of us breeders are seeing is what she sees also.

Anyway - welcome to the forum - who knows - if I do get back into lionheads - we may compete against each other someday at Nationals or something!


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## TinysMom (Jul 19, 2010)

*mistyjr wrote:*


> People on the internet cant hardly tell by picture then real life..


Wow - I guess we can stop asking Pam Nock (and other breeders on here) for their opinions on our stock - _or at least your stock_!

Glad you have someone there who can give you hands-on advice.


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## mistyjr (Jul 19, 2010)

*schneider1022 wrote: *


> Lionheads are all unique they don't all look the same that is partially why there not a recognized breed it is hard to find alot of consistency between what one person is breeding for and what another is breeding for.
> 
> If you have been out of breeding them for about 2 years now its going to be harder to know what is going on with the breed unless your working with them on a daily basis. in my opinion
> 
> ...


Yes, That is true... 

He is starting to shed some lately. I have noticed.. Hes starting to loose some of hes coat on hes back and hes mane is getting wild.


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## schneider1022 (Jul 19, 2010)

I believe she was just showing you a pic of her new bunny, and asking for an "Opinion" of what you think of him from the picture. 

We seen the tort bunny in person at the show he is nice and fits the breed standard, he was only in his baby coat in that picture. Lionheads are wooly as babies and they do shed out sometimes it takes5 months the ones that are clean at 2 months old usually keep nothing for mane. Your "opinion" does not fit what he is actually like so you can't judge them by pictures all the time especially if there not posed properly. That is all we were getting at.


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## mistyjr (Jul 19, 2010)

*schneider1022 wrote: *


> I believe she was just showing you a pic of her new bunny, and asking for an "Opinion" of what you think of him from the picture.
> 
> We seen the tort bunny in person at the show he is nice and fits the breed standard, he was only in his baby coat in that picture. Lionheads are wooly as babies and they do shed out sometimes it takes5 months the ones that are clean at 2 months old usually keep nothing for mane. Your "opinion" does not fit what he is actually like so you can't judge them by pictures all the time especially if there not posed properly. That is all we were getting at.


I will get better pictures of him today. He is getting more cutier now and a lot bigger. He haves done hes first breeding and didnt know what to do with her...lol.  
But now he is 4 months old,


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## schneider1022 (Jul 19, 2010)

great


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## mistyjr (Jul 19, 2010)

But the picture I have up in this thread is my Newer Wooly Herd Buck. And very loveable.


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## schneider1022 (Jul 19, 2010)

looks cute in my opinion


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## mistyjr (Jul 19, 2010)

Thanks, And yes, He is cute and loves to pose.. The breeder that I got him from poses her rabbits every few hrs a day. And she is very helpful on the Woolies.. Now with the Lion-Heads!


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## schneider1022 (Jul 19, 2010)

If your ever at a WI rabbit show we are more than happy to help you out as much as we can with what questions you may have about the lionheadbreed.


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## mistyjr (Jul 19, 2010)

*schneider1022 wrote: *


> If your ever at a WI rabbit show we are more than happy to help you out as much as we can with what questions you may have about the lionheadbreed.


Thanks, I also email well known lion heads breeders too. Like I have with you of cource.. I wish I knew the lady that I bought him from.


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## schneider1022 (Jul 19, 2010)

PM me if you want some reccomended LH breeders in the MI area or Southern WI


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## Jaded (Jul 19, 2010)

*lelanatty wrote: *


> How hard is it to breed Harlie out?
> And... can't there be no such thing as Blue Fawn? Because fawn is a lighter/dilute orange?
> 
> If it were a fawn/orange color with a blue undercoat it would be a Lynx.
> ...




Blue fawn is Blue Tort


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## mistyjr (Jul 19, 2010)

*mistyjr wrote: *


> *mistyjr wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I need names ideals for these 2 babies??
> ...


I just keeping Carmentis name and Need to change the other 2 names.. Any Ideal??


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## schneider1022 (Jul 19, 2010)

I would say either Spencer or Aspen for the JW Buck 

and for the Chinchilla doe not really sure ... probably think of something later


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## mistyjr (Jul 19, 2010)

*schneider1022 wrote: *


> I would say either Spencer or Aspen for the JW Buck
> 
> and for the Chinchilla doe not really sure ... probably think of something later


The Chin is a Buck


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