# Anyone ever see this at Kindling?



## BlueGiants (Oct 1, 2007)

I had a litter of Flemish born on Sept 28th. First time mom, She went to 32 days (not unusual for my Giants), and delivered 6, 2 DOA, 4 alive. Made a great nest, had them in the box. Did not clean the dead ones. 

This morning, she pulled fur in one corner of the cage (NOT her nestbox!) and delivered another one... alive, plump and fine...3 days later? We've had them born 8-12 hours apart (yeah, they always make a second nest). I do not "re-breed" more than 3 hours after the initial breeding.

Any ideas what could have caused this? Buck is proven many times over, never had a problem. She doesn't appear to have any infection, no discharge, no smell (Oh yeah, she liked when I checked for that! NOT!). She's nursing fine. Even the new one (who's just a tiny bit smaller than his siblings...). 

Just thought I'd put it out there in case someone else has seen this. Thanks!


----------



## Bo B Bunny (Oct 1, 2007)

WOW How strange!


----------



## polly (Oct 1, 2007)

I haven't seen it 3 days apart, though i have one that typically has 1 one day and 1 24 hours later usually every second litter.

Maybe it was to cosy in there lol


----------



## TinysMom (Oct 1, 2007)

I've read about it before with other breeders and stuff...but never had it happen with the births that far apart.

Peg


----------



## BlueGiants (Oct 1, 2007)

I'm still shaking my head over the fact that the little bugger is alive! Maybe I should call him "Lucky"? onder: 

He wasin a corner of the open cage, no siblings to keep him warm, I have no idea how he made it, except that I found him in time. But that is a long time between the first born and the last.... :waiting:


----------



## Bo B Bunny (Oct 1, 2007)

Maybe she had him hidden under a leg? LOL!

Sorry I'm not any help but I do think it's fascinating!

Now do you have a digital camera so we can see the difference in size? LOL!


----------



## BlueGiants (Oct 1, 2007)

I'll try to get a photo when I get home from work.... just line them up and tell them to say "CHEESE"...


----------



## BlueGiants (Oct 1, 2007)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> Maybe she had him hidden under a leg? LOL!


At first I thought he'd fallen out of the nest box...but I'm sure he didn't, she did make a new nest, pulling fresh fur in the corner, there was fresh blood in the corner and his umbilical was still fresh cut. He was definately "new" born. I'll try to get a photo tonight.


----------



## BlueGiants (Oct 1, 2007)

[align=center]

[/align]This isa photo of the litter. (You can click on it to see a bigger version) The little black born this morning is on the right side end. He should catch up to his siblings in a few days. The doe seems to be nursing them well.


----------



## gentle giants (Oct 1, 2007)

Oooooooh, you have bluuuues!! I love blues, and never could find any around here!Do you ship to Illinois?? Just kidding, I don't think I could afford it anyway, but oh I love blues!

Oh, yeah, and I have never seen any of my does have babies three days apart either. :biggrin2:


----------



## naturestee (Oct 1, 2007)

EEE! Baby flemmies! :inlove:

Have you palpated her to make sure there aren't any others? I'd want to make sure she has them all out now.


----------



## BlueGiants (Oct 1, 2007)

LOL! I palpated her after she had the first 6 (especially cause two of them were dead!). I wanted to make sure she was done and they were all out, and didn't feel THIS one! I have NO idea where he was hiding. Sigh... guess I have to re-learn to palpate better...


----------



## RAL Rabbitry (Oct 1, 2007)

With all that room in there he must have been hiding LOL.

Two days is the most that I have had does space out kindling.

Roger


----------



## Bo B Bunny (Oct 1, 2007)

Oh aren't they just gorgeous!!!! That little one is a cutie. 

I was telling my mom about this and she said to be real sure to watch her vent area and how she's acting. Regardless of why - she could have some sort of infection or block that caused this or could be caused by this. Weird things happen for weird reasons sometimes.

Congrats on the great litter(s) lol!


----------



## JadeIcing (Oct 3, 2007)

:threadhijacked:

What colors do you breed?


----------



## BlueGiants (Oct 3, 2007)

I have Blues, Blacks and White Flemish. I simply love them!


----------



## JadeIcing (Oct 3, 2007)

*BlueGiants wrote: *


> I have Blues, Blacks and White Flemish. I simply love them!



I lost my girl back in May. I plan on eventually getting another. Well we do my husband also wants another. 

We were looking into a Fawn colored one. I have a black polish, a Blue holland lop, and a blue lop/lionhead mix. I do have a white bun but he has alittle black. So a white sounds nice. 

It won't be for awhile though. The only way we will consider it while still living here is if all of our bonded.


----------



## BlueGiants (Oct 3, 2007)

I'm sorry for the loss of your girl... they are all so very special. I can picture a Flemish playing with a Polish, a Holland and Lionhead. :groupparty:

The little black is still the smallest in the litter, but he's holding his own. I'm trying to make sure he getsextra time nursing. His mom seems fine.

I had 2 other litters born the same day, a white litterof 7 and a small litter of 2 blacks. The small litter didn't make it.:sad: sigh... but the others are doing very well. 

I spoke with my vet over this. She felt that because 2 were borndead, (and they were very large) this one might have been behind them (higher in the horn). The stress and energy used to expell the dead babies may have caused the uterine horns to "rest"and they just got around to expelling the last baby. She felt I was real lucky the baby was still alive. Her experience shows that anything born after48 hours,usually don't make it. :bunnyheart


----------



## JadeIcing (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks. I never was fond of larger animals but she had something that was just so unique. I miss having my big bunny. She never actually played with the others. She was abused and we had to work through alot of problems.



I am so sorry about the babies lost. I am very happy about those that are pulling through. 



Peg (TinysMom) did a blog about her lionheads from birth to adulthood. You should with the flemish. I think it would be awesome!


----------



## jupiterannette (Oct 3, 2007)

Congrats!

Mine are stil not here, it least i can look at yours and get my baby fix! LOL


----------



## TinysMom (Oct 4, 2007)

Tiny, my black flemish giant has a real fondness for lionhead does as close friends. He's been neutered so he has no desire for anything else and when the does will try to mount him (particularly on the head) he runs away with an embarassed look on his face.

But I find that flemish and lionheads *CAN* get along....at least sometimes. But I wouldn't let him near my bucks and if there is a buck in cage - Tiny will go and pee right near the cage to remind the buck that Tiny is the boss...

Peg*

BlueGiants wrote:*


> I can picture a Flemish playing with a Polish, a Holland and Lionhead. :groupparty:


----------



## BlueGiants (Oct 4, 2007)

I have a friend with a Flemish that is bonded with a Mini Rex girl, and that big boy is totally submissive to her! He lets her eat first, he lets her climb all over him, she gets first choice on the hay... such a mush! (His father was totally embarrassed to hear this! He is the "super" buck,Superman! LOL!...). 

Tiny is still "the man" and he knows who belongs in his territory and who doesn't! :nope:


----------



## jupiterannette (Oct 4, 2007)

how are the babies... pics? 

momma still doin good?


----------



## Bo B Bunny (Oct 5, 2007)

*BlueGiants wrote: *


> I have a friend with a Flemish that is bonded with a Mini Rex girl, and that big boy is totally submissive to her! He lets her eat first, he lets her climb all over him, she gets first choice on the hay... such a mush! (His father was totally embarrassed to hear this! He is the "super" buck,Superman! LOL!...).
> 
> Tiny is still "the man" and he knows who belongs in his territory and who doesn't! :nope:



That's ADORABLE! I love it!

BTW - you should name that little one SCOOTER since he just took his time and scooted along being born


----------



## BlueGiants (Oct 5, 2007)

*jupiterannette wrote: *


> how are the babies... pics?
> 
> momma still doin good?



Babies are just fine...:wave2it's been so warm, they won't stay in the fur-lined nest... insist onlaying outside on the hay...She feeds them and keeps pushing them back in....I'll try to get some new photo's tonight. 

Momma (Gabrielle) is doing great, but she's got some attitude now! My sweet gentle doe that gives kisses is defending those babies like a pit bull! (But she can be bribed with parsley! LOL! Silly TWIT!)


----------



## Wabbitdad12 (Oct 5, 2007)

Congratulations on your litter. 3 days apart? I'll keep checking and see if Sweetie pops out another one!:biggrin2:


----------



## clarzoo (Oct 9, 2007)

BlueGiants,

How is this litter doing? Is the littlest guy still doing well? 

I would LOVE to see new pictures! (hint hint) :biggrin2:


----------



## Bo B Bunny (Oct 9, 2007)

:yeahthat: :big wink:


----------



## JadeIcing (Oct 9, 2007)

:big wink::yeahthat:


----------



## BlueGiants (Oct 9, 2007)

So sorry! LOL! I'll try to get photo's of them soon. I've been working a lot of Overtime the lastcouple days....

When I went out to check them this morning, the littlest bugger (ummmm.... "Lucky"?) was laying outside the box. He must have latched on real tight to Gabrielle (mom) and when she hopped out, he went with her! But he had a full belly! Good thing we've have warmer weather than usual! But I popped him back in the box. Made Gabrielle happy... she was upset he was out. (A couple of the whites, born the same day, have been doing the same thing... hungry little things!) I have a brick step that they can use to climb back in, but their eye's are not open yet, so they can't see it!

I have to clean out the nest boxes tonight,and I'll put less hay "stuffing" in them. They'll be deeper and that should help keep them in there, at least until their eyes open and they can see where they're going! 

We're supposed to be 20 degrees colder by tomorrow, so I'd be happier if they stayed in the boxes another week. :happybunny:


----------



## Bo B Bunny (Oct 9, 2007)

The weather you are going to get from this way is GORGEOUS! Today is a perfect day; sunny, 72, and a slight breeze!

Tomorrow it won't get much over 60Â° here and Thursday it will only be in the 50's. I don't know if this is the weather you are getting. I know a lot of people will be on their way to the ARBA convention - so if you are getting this weather - but sure the bunnies are prepared to adjust!

Bo and Clover can sense the change eventhough our house is pretty constant. He gets all snuggly with me and a blankie if he's out. LOL! He's like a little old man sometimes.


----------



## BlueGiants (Oct 10, 2007)

The litter at 9 days old (except Lucky, small black at front right)... They are all opening their eyes (except Lucky!)







Lucky (by himself...) I know he looks small, but he's 3 days younger than the rest of his siblings... and at this age 3 days is a LOT!









Largest Black in the litter, eyes opening....


----------



## tundrakatiebean (Oct 11, 2007)

This may be kind of a silly question, but I'm curious 

How do the kit sizes of flemish giants compare to other breeds? Are they bigger when they are first born or do they grow faster?


----------



## BlueGiants (Oct 11, 2007)

The Flemish are born biggeras compared tomy Mini Rex. I'd say almost twice as big. The Flemish body is longer. But yes, the Flemishgrowth rate is much faster. I've never measured it, but from what I can see, I'd say the Flemish does produce more milk than the smaller breeds. 

At 8 weeks, when I wean them, the Felmishare, on average, 6 lbs. (+/- a half lb.). At 8 weeks, my average Mini Rex isless than2 lbs. 

At 16 weeks (4 months), the Flemish are around 9-11 lbs. My Mini Rex are about 3 1/2 lbs.

I have Flemish litters due in 12 days and Mini Rex litters due in 21 days. I'm going to try and take photo's of the newborns, maybe next to a ruler (?) and I'll weight them at birth... and I'll do the same at one week of age... so you can get a comparison. Watch for a future thread in 22 days! LOL!


----------



## tundrakatiebean (Oct 11, 2007)

Awesome :biggrin2:thank you!

I'll definately be looking for that thread, can't pass up a chance to look at baby bunnies!


----------



## BlueGiants (Oct 20, 2007)

Just wanted to update on the litter. They are now 3 weeks old. The two blues are Does and of the 3 blacks, 1 is a doe and 2 are bucks (as of now!) .

The smallest one (Last Born) is a buck and we are calling him Lil Bit. He weighs 6 oz as of today. His sisters and brothers all weigh between 9.5 and 11 oz. But he is eatng good, just started them on a bit of Oatmeal, and he had no trouble eating that!

Here is a photo from this morning showing the size difference between him and his sister:







I tried to take a photo of all of them together, but they are a lively bunch! Couldn't get them all together and still enough for a photo to come out! LOL! My feeble attempt at a picture: (LOL! I'll try again later with help!)


----------



## Flashy (Oct 20, 2007)

How CUTE!

lol, group pictures rae hilarious to try and take


----------



## tundrakatiebean (Oct 20, 2007)

:biggrin2:They are soooo cute!


----------



## Ivory (Oct 24, 2007)

Hey bluegiants, just to let you know, what happened with your bunny isn't terribly uncommon. What happens is, instead of implanting right away, for some reason sometimes a zygote won't implant for a few days after the others. Actually, it'll sometimes go to the other uterine horn, and when the other kittens are born the horn containing the less-developed fetuses will sort of "block off" the kit from being born until it's ready.

I've seen it happen up to a week and a half later. Don't ask me how that one happened, because it normally isn't any longer than five or so days, but it did. She actually had three kits in the second litter. Poor thing, the breeder got another doe to surrogate.

(I don't read the Rabbitry most of the time, sorry it took me so long to get to in here lol)


----------



## BlueGiants (Oct 24, 2007)

Thanks Ivory! Appreciate the input! Even my vet was interested in this one!


----------



## tundrakatiebean (Oct 24, 2007)

How are the babies doing? *cough* pictures *cough*


----------



## BlueGiants (Oct 24, 2007)

They are 26 days today. The two blue girls and the black girl weigh 1 lb. each. 

Lil Bit weight 9 oz. (So he's still a lil bit!) 

Who woke us up????? (That's Lil Bit down in front...)







Running Around:







Mom settled in:







And the whole time I'm taking photo's... where is Lil Bit????


----------



## Bo B Bunny (Oct 24, 2007)

How adorable!!!


----------



## tundrakatiebean (Oct 25, 2007)

:biggrin2:sooo cute! I want one!


----------



## TinysMom (Oct 25, 2007)

I am so jealous.

I will share something - when I got started breeding I really halfway wanted to breed flemies and Art put his foot down and said, "no way" because they were so big. However, if I'd bred flemmies - I probably would have only had one or two pairs (as opposed to my HERD of lionheads).

I am SO JEALOUS of your baby flemmies...I wish I could sneak up there and steal them all....

Oh well - I'll have to be satisfied with my Tiny!

Peg


----------



## Ivory (Oct 25, 2007)

Out of curiosity, Peg, how big is Tiny exactly?

And how big will those babies probably get?

The biggest Flemish I ever saw was huge. As in, well over twenty pounds. He wasn't overweight, either- it was all muscle and bone. Biig bunny.


----------



## BlueGiants (Oct 25, 2007)

I kind of expect some of these babies to be between 16 and 18 lbs when full grown. (Not LIL BIT!) None of the varietiescosistantly produce 20 lbs rabbits... but you'll find the Sandies generally are the larger ones.

The blues don't, consistantly get as big as the Sandies, buta few of us areworking on improving them.

Another note, a lot of the breeders have trouble getting a doe over 20 lbs to breed, and once you get to that weight, it can be difficult to maintain condition and type.... there was a 23 lbs Sandy doe at the Lebanon, PA show last year, she was massive, but first off the table. But we all had to see her weighed just for the heck of it!


----------



## JadeIcing (Oct 25, 2007)

Hey Blue cjeck your pms.:biggrin2:


----------



## TinysMom (Oct 25, 2007)

Tiny is sort of small for a flemish - I don't remember if he is 14 pounds or 17 pounds. I will have to weigh him later.

Peg*


Ivory wrote: *


> Out of curiosity, Peg, how big is Tiny exactly?
> 
> And how big will those babies probably get?
> 
> The biggest Flemish I ever saw was huge. As in, well over twenty pounds. He wasn't overweight, either- it was all muscle and bone. Biig bunny.


----------



## ~Bracon~ (Oct 25, 2007)

There adorable! Im really enjoying watching my 3kits grow up


----------



## maherwoman (Oct 26, 2007)

You do realize, of course, that if you'd bred Flemmies, I would've wound up with a whole crowd of them here. But, SHHH...don't let Danny read that...(although I'm quite certain he suspects). Last night, he was complaining that he was outnumbered (male to female ratio in the house)...so I said (can you guess?), "Ya know...we could get a Flemmie...and it could be a boy...when we have a house...and we'd have the space for one then...and he could be King of the herd, just like Tiny.

I hate to say it, but I didn't get much response...BUT...I think he may have been thinking about it. So, I kept goin', telling him how sweet Flemmies are, telling him that it would be like a puppy dog, that the bun would be as big as the cats (to which he said, "How big's Tiny?" and I told him that I thought Tiny was a bit on the small side at about 15lbs..yay to me getting it right!).

I think I may have him thinking about it...but ya never know with this guy...I think I'll just have to wait until everybun's home and talk to him again about it then...

But...a beautiful fawn or (now) blue Flemmie is on my list! And ya'll know what happens when somebun is on Mama's list...lol! I'll just have to be sure to name the bun something short, like four letters, so his name fits under my avatar! 

:biggrin2:

*TinysMom wrote: *


> I am so jealous.
> 
> I will share something - when I got started breeding I really halfway wanted to breed flemies and Art put his foot down and said, "no way" because they were so big. However, if I'd bred flemmies - I probably would have only had one or two pairs (as opposed to my HERD of lionheads).
> 
> ...


----------



## MsBinky (Oct 26, 2007)

MrBinky promised me my flemmie when we get a house. In fact, he wants me to get two so they can be together. :biggrin2:I like how MrBinky turned out I think you trained your man pretty well too Rosie... You do have 8 bunnies you know If I got the count right. But I do hope you get one when you guys get a house :biggrin2:

Btw... Those babies are too cute. I have wanted flemmies ever since i heard of them. Lol. But I don't picture them in a 3 1/2. I'm so jealous of you I love Lil Bit and how he's always in the same spots. Lol.


----------



## TinysMom (Oct 27, 2007)

We need more pictures.....

:biggrin2:


----------



## tundrakatiebean (Oct 28, 2007)

:yeahthat:


----------



## jupiterannette (Nov 2, 2007)

any updates? how are the kits?


----------



## BlueGiants (Nov 2, 2007)

As of this morning, there are only two left. Lil Bit is still doing well, and one of his blue sisters is OK. I lost 3 of them over the last week. We are still having trouble with unexplained losses. Still waiting to hear from vet labs...


----------



## tundrakatiebean (Nov 2, 2007)

oh no, I am so sorry!


----------



## tundrakatiebean (Nov 2, 2007)

Could it be something the dogs brought in with them?


----------



## jupiterannette (Nov 2, 2007)

...:bunny16 bunny hugs..

i hope your buns feel better soon.


----------



## BlueGiants (Nov 2, 2007)

We are having that checked too... samples of everything we could get were sent to the lab, but they need a week to compete all tests and get the results back to us. A week is a long time under this situation. But the vet has me treating for coccidiosis as a back up... we'll see what happens...


----------

