# HELP!!!



## MindAteMum (Dec 13, 2006)

Okay.. I don't have much time to explain. Weadopted a bunny from these girls in a dorm who had her living in atupperware box. She's been with us for 5 days.

We looked in her cage today and she has a baby in there. But she's like. Stomping all over it and everything..

PLEASE HELP. We were not expecting this. o_o

Suggestions?!


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## Michaela (Dec 13, 2006)

What size is the baby? Does it have any fur, or is it just newborn?

This would probably be better in the rabbitry, hopefully a mod will come along soon and move it for you.

Are you sure there is just one, it's possible she'll have more.


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## JimD (Dec 13, 2006)

The mom only needs to be with the baby(s) a couple of times during the day to nurse them.
She can even be separated from them and then just put in for feeding time.

You should probably get a box to use as a nesting box. Something thatthe mom can get in and out of, but deep enough so the baby(s) can'tclimb out of.

~Jim


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## MindAteMum (Dec 13, 2006)

http://www.eatmycreativegenius.org/Photography/Pets/Bunneh/Babyfoo.jpg

that's the baby. She's about 2 inches? Eyes and ears still closed. ;-;

Sorry if this is in the wrong area. I feel rushed and nervous. I just posted.

I don't want to lose a little one, yunno?


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## samixXx (Dec 13, 2006)

looks like it was just born, did the mom make a nest?


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## MindAteMum (Dec 13, 2006)

Sort of? We just got her five days ago. Got hera nice little cage and I have been trying to litter box train her soshe can be in and out of her cage.

I got this "Kaytee Total Comfort critter friendly bedding" to put inthere. But it seemed to get stuck on her nose? (Could be over paranoiaof my little kiddo) so I stopped putting that in there and have beenputting newspaper in there every day after cleaning. She usually ripsit up and just refuses to let go of the many chucks of paper in hermouth.

She had the baby on her litter box. (I have a grate-covered box so itwasn't directly in the litter) but we got tissues and such and movedthe baby from there into a little box and under a lamp for now to keepit warm.

Should I put bedding in there?

Sorry, once again. This was just very very very unexpected. x.x


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## Michaela (Dec 13, 2006)

Oh yes newborn. Don't worry about putting it inthe wrong place, I just want the people who have most experience to seethis and be able to help you the best

My rabbit has only had one litter, so I'm not the most experienced, but |I'll help best I can.

She'll need a nest box, or somewhere that has hay and fur (did the mamapull fur from her chest?) so she won't get too cold and die.

Don't panic if the mama doesn't stay with the kit, that's normal,rabbits only feed their young once or twice a day for a few minutes,you'll probably not see her feed it, (that's because they are preyanimals)

You'll know if it's been fed because it'll have a fat little belly, if they haven't been fed the skin will be wrinkled.

It's uncommon for rabbits to just have one baby, although it ispossible, she could still have more on the way, or, there may be one ormore stuck in her.

Right, that's all I can think of now, ask anymore questions you need answered!


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## Michaela (Dec 13, 2006)

*MindAteMum wrote: *


> Should I put bedding in there?
> 
> Sorry, once again. This was just very very very unexpected. x.x


Right I posted at the same time as you,

Yes definitely, give her hay (rabbits sshould have a constant supply ofhay for eating) she might make a nest with it, or you can do it for her.

Don't worry, we're here to help!


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## JimD (Dec 13, 2006)

*samixXx wrote: *


> looks like it was just born, did the mom make a nest?


:yeahthat

You'll need to keep it warm, too!

We need some expert rabbitry advice here. I think TinysMom is logged on....hopefully she'll pick up on this thread.

~Jim


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## TinysMom (Dec 13, 2006)

Please check over the cage thoroughly to see ifthere is another baby....just to be sure. You've probablyalready done that - but babies can also crawl out of the cage....

Also - was the baby still somewhat warm when you found it - or cool? Just curious here..

If the baby was cool, I'd hold it close to my body or snuggled in myhands to help it get warm again. I have also thrown wash clothes in thedryer for a few minutes for a bit to get them warm and then put baby inthe warm washcloth to help it get its body temp back up.

I'm probably not going to say this right....but I'll try. The nestboxyou make will have to be very small (if you're going to take baby tomama a couple of times per day to get fed instead of leaving thenestbox in with mama). I say this because the baby can lose its bodyheat very fast. You want it to stay in one area and stay warm. So forexample - if you use a shoebox.....stuff it really full of hay and putmama's fur (you can pull some out of her belly area) in a small sectionof it and then put the baby in that. You need the baby to stay where itwill keep warm.

If it were me...I would take the baby to mama a few times per day toget mama to nurse it until it gets fur and can stay warmer....then I'dput a nestbox in with mama all the time and see if she'll feed it onher own. But if she gets in a nestbox to feed it and it moves off awayfrom the fur...it can get cold and die.

Peg

P.S. The baby looks like it is a decent size and the bellylooks good...so I would guess it might have a good chance if you canget mama to feed it.


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## TinysMom (Dec 13, 2006)

I am moving this to the rabbitry area so more breeders might see this and help out!

Thanks to all those who have responded already - please come on over to the rabbitry area and keep on helping!

Peg


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## MindAteMum (Dec 13, 2006)

Okay. Okay. I am settling down a little.*laughs* I want to thank you guys for helping me. Even without knowingme! Very very kind of you. I could hug all of you.

So far there is no more babies. This was very unexpected. But I muchrather her be having babies when I took her home. Than still in atupperware container at a college dorm.

I was just calling around the other day and asking how much it would be to get her fixed. I am glad I had to wait.. ^^;

I know for sure I will stick around these forums for quite a while. Notonly do you seem like a very friendly bunch of people. But alas, I havea lot to learn.. I usually read up on everything possible before I geta new pet. I studied and read up on Iguanas for over a month before Idecided it would be aright to get one. But seeing Potato in atupperware box..? I couldn't wait. I took her home and have been doingmy best. First thing I did was slowly change her diet. They had beenfeeding her crap for food.

Thank you again!

By the way, My name is Angel. My roommate Sam was the one who noticedthe baby. Our bunnies name is Potato. And so far we have been callingthe baby Baby Foo Foo or Sam Jr. *laughs*


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## JimD (Dec 13, 2006)

*TinysMom wrote:*


> I am moving this to the rabbitry area so more breeders mightsee this and help out!
> 
> Thanks to all those who have responded already - please come on over to the rabbitry area and keep on helping!
> 
> Peg




Thanks Peg!!!! I feel better now that you're on this!!!

~Jim


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## pamnock (Dec 13, 2006)

As Peg already mentioned, the kit can be takento the doe a couple times a day for nursing. Place the doe onyour lap with a little snack to help her relax so the milk "letsdown". Simply place the kit under her and it will root for anipple (kits nurse on their backs).

The doe won't appear to be producing much milk over the first few daysbecause she'll be producing colostrum until about day 3 when the milkactually comes in.



Pam


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## TinysMom (Dec 13, 2006)

ok...first a bit about me today. Since 1:30 pm,Amidala and Sundae have both given birth....at the same time.Butterscotch is nesting. Pearl has pulled fur and is nesting. My sealdoe was nesting and is now in labor. Miss Bea is looking at me as if tosay, "Me? Make a nest? Maybe later.." 

On top of that, my baby bunnies have reached the fun stage and they'rebinkying in the cages. Romance and her babies were trying to steal hayfrom Pearl's cage - which Pearl wanted for nesting. I should have takena picture - instead I grabbed more hay so Pearl would settle back down.(their cages are side by side).

Plus I'm trying to do housework and clean the rabbitry so it won't bother Eric's asthma when he gets home tomorrow.

I say all this to say....if my posts seem disjointed or I didn't makesense - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PM me....or leave a note on the thread andI'll see how I screwed up.

Because it is hard to type when you want to watch ad oe give birth...or watch babies...

~~~~

Ok - what I'm about to share is opinion only. Other breedersmay disagree with me and that's fine - you'll need to go with what youthink is best.

Since the baby is so small, I would put a piece of fabric (that doesn'thave hanging threads) underneath it to help it stay warm and keep it ina small box...preferably smaller than a shoe box. I like to use felt orsome soft cloth like that. You could use an old washcloth.

I sort of try to make a nest with the fabric and put hay all around itand under it. I want to use the hay to keep the fabric almost closed upso the baby can't crawl out of it.

The reason I would not put the baby in a nestbox yet and leave it inwith mama is that the baby really needs to get some fur to stay warm.If you leave it with mama she may nurse it and then jump out of thenestbox and baby will crawl off and die from getting too cold.

I would take the baby to the doe every 2-4 hours starting tonight (ifshe doesn't nurse it tonight, you can wait until the morning). Whyevery 2-4 hours? Because you want to catch her at a goodtime. Once she's fed the baby...then wait about 8 hours and try again.

In other words, I like to get my does on a schedule (they can choosethe schedule sort of) and every few hours I will offer them babies IFthe babies aren't with them for some reason. (Normally my babies arewith my does). So for example - let's say she feeds them at 6 pmtonight - try again right before bedtime and then again in the morning.Keep trying every few hours till she's ready to nurse.

Here is how I have my mamas nurse them. I put the baby in a largerbox...I tend to use a pink plastic crate thingy we have. I then putfruit loops, some hay, some raisins and any other favorite treats inone corner of the box. I put the box on the couch and then I bring thedoe to the box. The baby will lay under or beside the doe while the doecalms down. I pet it and talk to it softly and then start offering ittreats. I want the doe to associate nursing the baby with something"fun". I try to not offer treats (although they are in the box) tillthe mama appears to be nursing....or if she's calm. I don't want toreward her for fighting me.

You can tell when the baby has nursed because its tummy will look likeit swallowed a ping pong ball. If mama doesn't clean it - you will needto take a warm damp paper towel or cotton ball and wipe its privates tostimulate it to pee and poop. As it gets closer to 10 days or so - youmay need to take a warm clean cloth and wipe its eyes...or mama may dothat.

If it were me, depending upon the mama and baby - I would either putthe baby in with the mama all the time once the baby has some fur (in anestbox) OR if mama dumps the nestbox...I'd wait until the baby has itseyes open and is getting around a bit and then put it in with mama allthe time.

It is hard keeping a singleton alive...but it is possible. 

Peg


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## MindAteMum (Dec 13, 2006)

Okay. So when would I want to bring baby to mamaagain? I read something about feeding time being best between midnightand 5 am? (Resource: http://www.rabbit.org/care/newborn.html )

Potato is currently laying on her side. She's no longer panting orripping up news paper. Is this good? *grins* I gave her a little of herfavorite snack (Celery) and she seemed to calm down.


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## TinysMom (Dec 13, 2006)

If she is eating, she is probably donedelivering babies. I say probably...I've had one or two does havebabies and then deliver another baby up to 24 hours later. Talk about ashock...going to check the nestbox knowing you have X babies....and youfind X+1 babies!

Peg


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## AngelnSnuffy (Dec 13, 2006)

Welcome to the forum Angel! Good foryou for rescuing poor Potato (cute name). good luck w/ BabyFoo Foo, keep us posted!

And yes, there are a bunch of really nice peeps on here that will help as much as they can!:bunnydance:


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## MindAteMum (Dec 13, 2006)

Potato is at it again. Tearing up paper and digging and acting completely insane. Is there a reason for this?

We have the baby in a little plastic box with a washcloth and some mamafur and newspaper for now (Until we can get hay later this evening)with a desklamp keeping warmth incomming. I was just curious on if thebaby can get too hot? How do I know? He/she doesn't feel cold to thetouch at all..


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## TinysMom (Dec 13, 2006)

I wouldn't put the box too close to the desk lamp.

If it wasn't cool to the touch when you found it....then what you've done should keep it warm enough I would think.

Peg


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## TinysMom (Dec 13, 2006)

I've been meaning to add that I really respectyou for normally checking out about animals before you add them. Ithink it is also great that you'd already called around about gettingyour rabbit neutered....

Do you know what type of rabbit it is? Just curious...

Oh - and don't forget we have the "bunny blog" section where you can start a blog of your bunny w/ pictures and stories, etc.

We LOVE pictures here...

:bunnydance:

Peg


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## TinysMom (Dec 13, 2006)

Potato is probably tearing up paper to make a nest and digging to make a nest.

You have to understand - if she was out in the wild...she would go offand dig a hole and then have her babies in the hole - lining it withfur, etc. Then once or twice a day she would go toher babies and nurse them - but she would stay away from them so thatpredators wouldn't follow her to them.

My does don't normally dig after giving birth which sort of leads me tobelieve she may have more. As strange as it sounds - if she has more itcan almost make things easier for you as they will keep each other warmand the nestbox can probably be put in with mama.

Let us know what happens as the day goes on.

Peg


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## MindAteMum (Dec 13, 2006)

She's a sort of dwarf bunny. I have pictures of her here:

http://www.eatmycreativegenius.org/Photography/Pets/Bunneh/

A blog, huh? I will look into this! I hope she has more just so it'llbe easier. But finding the money to fix them all before finding homesfor them will be hard. ;-; Let alone finding good homes for them.*laughs* I will think of that at another time.


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## TinysMom (Dec 13, 2006)

Oh wow - she's cute. At least you don't have afrench lop or flemish where we could be looking for the possibility ofanother 10 babies or so. 

I'm guessing the most she would have would be 4 and 1 or 2 would bequite possible. I don't breed dwarfs (well, lionheads do have the dwarfgene sometimes).

I've heard that many dwarfs will lose their first litter...so congrats on her having the one!

Peg


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## MindAteMum (Dec 13, 2006)

I am very worried about losing this little guy. I sure hope he makes it!

I will need to fix Potato. (Well, not me personally) There are no otherrabbits around. But I heard good things about fixing bunnies.

I sure hope I can get her littler box trained so she can have the living room to play in.


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## MindAteMum (Dec 13, 2006)

I should also ask: What if she continues tostomp on the baby and doesn't feed it? Will there be something I willneed to do? Maybe hand feeding?

Just trying to get everything in mind now. As not to have an issue at 3am when everything is closed and I can't get what I need to save alittle life.

Thanks again, guys! :heart:


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## TinysMom (Dec 13, 2006)

If she doesn't feed it - you have two options.

Try to hand feed it yourself - or find a breeder in your area and seeif they'll allow it to foster off one of your mamas. I've never hadanyone call asking that - but if there was someone in my area needing ababy fostered, I'd take a quick look at baby and mama (to check foranything wrong) and then probably say "sure" and let a mama foster itif I had one nursing at the time.

Normally I don't breed very much - I'm just getting ready for lionhead Nationals...so I have a lot of litters.

You might want to get some kitten replacement formula (I like thepowdered kind). I think I have a recipe somewhere too - let me check.

Peg


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## TinysMom (Dec 13, 2006)

Try this link...

http://www.rabbit.org/faq/sections/orphan.html#How much formula should I feed?

Peg


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## MindAteMum (Dec 13, 2006)

She still is not doing a very motherly job.

she stomps on the baby in the nestbox. :shakefist:
I will try in another hour or two.


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## Pipp (Dec 13, 2006)

Not my area, but do you mean stomping as inthumping her foot intentionally down on the baby? Or juststepping on it while moving around the nest box? Don't wantto alarm you, but some mothers when they're stressed will try and killtheir babies in what is thought to be an odd attempt to save them frompredators.

The nest boxshouldn't have too high ofasideso the mom can see where she's jumping whenshe comesin and doesn't have to land too hard, but highenough to keep the kitfrom being able to crawl out. 

How active is the baby? 

sas


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## Pipp (Dec 13, 2006)

PS: Not to contradict Peg or anything, she's theexperienced one, but if it hasn't already been stressed, it's FARbetter to have the doe feed the kit (even if you have to hold her inplace and let the kit feed from her) than using formula. Theprognosis with formula and hand feeding, and apparently often withfostering (according to Pam I think) is pretty poor. 

sas


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## TinysMom (Dec 13, 2006)

Ok - you may want to put baby in the nestboxAFTER you have mama settled down a bit. The baby's best chance isnursing off of mama...vs. formula feeding. So we really want to try toget mama to nurse.

Now here is the question - is she stomping ON the baby - or beside the baby? 

My mamas will sometimes thump or stomp to call the babies when it istime for them to nurse. Some mamas will lick the babies and clean them- others will thump (particularly as they get older).

Also - remember - maybe her milk isn't in yet. You want to get her inthe box and comfortable and relaxed so the milk can drop. That's why Ilike to put treats in the box....so she's eating treats and not reallythinking about baby. 

Once she starts nursing like this and gets used to the idea - sheshould do better at seeing you get ready to put her in the box and go"oh..I'm supposed to nurse now".

By the way, is she still digging in the cage? If so, she may bethinking she's going to deliver more. You may need to flip her over andlook at her privates to see if she has a stuck kit.

Peg*

MindAteMum wrote: *


> She still is not doing a very motherly job.
> 
> she stomps on the baby in the nestbox. :shakefist:
> I will try in another hour or two.


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## MindAteMum (Dec 13, 2006)

She just trots all over the baby as if he's not there. Steps on him and tips over the nestbox. ;-;

His tummy still looks full. So I am not too worried as of yet. I willmainly worry when I go to sleep and wake up. Hopefully not to a deadbaby.

Should I keep the lamp over the baby all night to keep him warm?


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## aurora369 (Dec 13, 2006)

Is there any fur in the nest with the baby?

I would make double sure that the cord on the lamp can't be chewedon. And make sure the baby has somewhere to wiggle to if hegets too hot.

--Dawn


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## TinysMom (Dec 13, 2006)

I would not keep the lamp over the baby ifyou've got it set up with fur and hay in the nestbox. To me the lampjust risks getting TOO hot.

If the baby has been fed, it will look like it swallowed a ping pongball. It is possible it got some food but maybe isn't all that full tolook that way. Getting food in it is the important thing - and somedoes won't nurse their litter for the first day. The picture you postedof the baby made it look pretty healthy.

I would definitely take a warm damp cloth or cotton ball and wipe its privates though to get it to pee and poop if she fed it.

Peg


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## KimboUNCW1 (Dec 13, 2006)

i pray that your little man makes it. i recentlyfound a baby too and the mom had died i'm thinking from giving birth.my little baby looked good too but either the handfeeding got liquid inhis little lungs or he had some kind of urinal problem.... i did thewarm cloth on his little belly and privates and he pooped but youshould definately make sure he pees.... if the mom is feeding him thenthat's more than i dealt with. good luck and i will be praying for him!ray:


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## MindAteMum (Dec 13, 2006)

Thank you.

We've replaced the newspaper with plenty of hay. She is still nestingand collecting it all and ignoring the baby (Who already seems to befuzzier) still. He was born about 2pm and it's now 9:30pm. When shouldI start to worry about him not getting fed. Would any sort of pictureshelp at all? Maybe of his nestbox? Or anything? Everytime we put thenestbox in the cage with mom she tears it apart for the washcloth. 

:S Am I being over paranoid? And if I am -- Isn't it understandable..? I'm already attached to the little guy.


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## TinysMom (Dec 13, 2006)

Being paranoid? Naw..you're being cautious.

I would be concerned if it hadn't eaten by 2:30 tomorrow afternoon.Some of my mamas nurse while giving birth or shortly after. Other mamasnurse hours later.

I would NOT leave the baby in with mama overnight since you know shewants the washcloth. Can you give her another washcloth to make a nestwith?

If she is going to have more she may continue trying to make anest....or for all I know she's thinking, "If I make a nest, I'll findthe baby again". I never fully understand some does.

What you want to avoid is the sunken belly look. If the baby's bellyisn't sunken in and wrinkled...then you have a chance. The first photoyou showed us looked pretty good for a newborn. I've had newborns thatwere so small I was thinking, "I don't know if you'll make it" - andfrequently they didn't. Your little one looked pretty good though...anice size.

Have you flipped mama and checked her privates to make sure there isn'ta stuck kit? That is pretty important - especially since sheis still nesting. You might want to visit a vet tomorrow (or a breedereven) and see if they can palpate to see if she still has any leftinside.

I am going to ask on my lionhead list if there are any breeders in yourtown or nearby that could palpate your doe for you....maybe we couldget someone to look at it that way. (I'm not saying DON'T go to thevet...ok? I'm just saying that might be a good first option).

Peg


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## MindAteMum (Dec 14, 2006)

We did turn her over and look. And we didn't seeanything of the sort. *smiles* Thank you for asking around for me. Iwould love to find a breeder around here.


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## Hollie (Dec 14, 2006)

Good luck with your little one! Mummy's a very pretty bun, so I'm sure her baby will be when it's grown, too  

This forum has so many people who know so much about rabbits thatyou've definitely come to the right place! If you can't get the rightadvice on here then you won't be able to get it anywhere!


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## Starlight Rabbitry (Dec 14, 2006)

Sounds like you are getting great information. How is the little baby this morning?

Sharon

P.S. New pics everyday would be helpful in seeing how he/sheis doing. It helps us determine if there is anythingdifferent you could try . Also, I don't know if anyonementioned this above but if you hand feed this baby without leaving italone with mom, you need to stimulate it to urinate. Youwould take a cotton ball or towel and put it in warm water and gentlyrub the babies belly and genital area with it. Just watch outbecause *thinks of right wording* they have "projectile" urine.


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## MindAteMum (Dec 14, 2006)

First I would like to thank you all for yourhelp and let you know it was very much appreciated. We woke up thismorning to the little Bunny Foo.. Well, he passed last night.  I gaveit my best effort, as did you all.. And I thank you for that.

I still plan to stay around the forums and get to know you all. Thank you.


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## samixXx (Dec 14, 2006)

im so sorry to hear that i know u tryed your best to save the little guy:bigtears:


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## TinysMom (Dec 14, 2006)

I'm so sorry for you. I know you wanted to try and save the baby.

Fortunately, you still have mama to love on....so hopefully you'll stayaround and share her photos and stuff in the bunny blog area.

I know you're going to make a great bunny-slave.

Peg


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## KimboUNCW1 (Dec 14, 2006)

aw bless his little heart :sad:


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## LuvaBun (Dec 14, 2006)

Awww, I've just read this from the beginning andI was so hoping that things would work out. I' sorry you lost thelittle guy . Just keep lovin' on the mom, and well done for takingher in - she's a real cutie.

Jan


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## aurora369 (Dec 14, 2006)

I'm so sorry to hear that the little baby didn't make it.

It's so heart wrenching when it happens. You try so hard, but the little one passes anyways.

I've lost a few and each and every one touches me, and you never forgetthe little one. He will live in your heart forever.

--Dawn


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## Pet_Bunny (Dec 14, 2006)

I am sorry he didn't make it. :cry1:

Lots of people werefollowing the thread, eventhough they didn't post,you have to know thatwe were here. :groupparty:

Rainbows! :angel:


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## JimD (Dec 14, 2006)

I'm so sorry 

You tried very hard and did all of the right things. It just wasn't meant to be.

:tears2:

~Jim


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## AngelnSnuffy (Dec 14, 2006)

I'm so sorry for your loss. You reallydid try your heart out. Like Pet_Bunny said, some of us thatdidn't post WERE here reading and praying for the little one. :rainbow:


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## MindAteMum (Dec 15, 2006)

Thank you all. ^^

Another questions for anyone still reading. Just a few moments agoPotato started pulling out some of her fur from her chest and tummy.And still is nesting. Any idea why?


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## MindAteMum (Dec 15, 2006)

OMG - Potatoe is having more babies ;-; Ono.SHould I take them out? or leave them in there. I don't want to causethe other to die, too! ;-;


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## grumpybabies (Dec 15, 2006)

i think you should leave them in there, itsounds like she had 2 seperate pregnancies, thats why she didn't lookafter the first one so well hopefully she will look after these as sheisn't conserving energies for a future litter she can concentrate onher babies now but just keep a close eye on her and i'm sorry for yourloss of the first baby thats so sad


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## samixXx (Dec 15, 2006)

any updates?


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## MindAteMum (Dec 15, 2006)

Well, upon waking up this morning we still havebabies. ^^ She's going a good job, so far. We are just trying to keepher toasty warm and well fed. I sure hope these little buggers make it.

I am curious: Do we need to watch them all the time? We are putting offgoing to our hometown as we do every weekend. would it be alright toleave her alone? Or should we continue to stay with Potato?

Yay! Babies.


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## grumpybabies (Dec 15, 2006)

hey priorities how many babies? lol i personallywouldn't go and leave them at all not in the first few days at leastbut that may be just me i worry a lot. do they look nice and fed? did ukeep them in with her?


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## MindAteMum (Dec 15, 2006)

There are two bebehs. One little-ish black oneand a bigger pink one. SO far they are staying warm and fed. I reallywant to take pictures of them. But perhaps I should wait until they geta little more fuzz to keep them warm.

I am excited. I am feeling very optasmistic! *wigglewiggle* :bunnydance:

I will post pictures as soon as I get them.  I know how you all loooove your pictures.


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## TinysMom (Dec 15, 2006)

This is awesome and I'm so happy for you. I felt so bad when you lost your little one.

Do share pictures...

Peg


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## aurora369 (Dec 15, 2006)

Arg, I wrote a wonderful big post, then the computer ate it...

So to recap:

Are they in a nest? Is there lots of fur?

I use a shoe box when I don't have anything else on hand.Fill it with lots of hay, tightly compacted, and make a fist sized holein the middle. Transfer all the fur and nesting material tothe shoe box.

I would want to monitor the babies frequently for the first week or soas they will die and freeze if they get out of the box for more than afew minutes.

I always take my babies out of the nest everyday to make sure everyoneis doing well. I use a towel on a heating pad set onlow. 

Make sure to check the nest for any dead babies or left over pieces of after birth.

If you are worried about the mom rejecting the babies (very unlikely),then rub your hands all over mom before touching the babies.

And take lots and lots of pictures, they grow so fast!

You can see pictures of past litters I've raised if you want to poke around in my gallery:
http://www.biggercages.com/gallery/main.php

--Dawn


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## MindAteMum (Dec 15, 2006)

In a nest, sort of? She made a nest in a darkercorner of her cage. Covered with fur and hay. I will certainly get abox. But I am not in too much of a rush. The babies seem to be stayingwarm and they are plump little guys! We check on them about every hour,so far. Just to be sure they are warm and still near one another.

Aunty-kitty is just.. Boggled. She hears the tiny noises and juststares at them. Luckily they are not where she could reach them. Hehe.


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## MindAteMum (Dec 15, 2006)

Here are some pictures for you guys!

http://www.eatmycreativegenius.org/Photography/Pets/Bunneh/Babies/

(There should be 5 there) Comments on the babies are welcome.


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## jordiwes (Dec 15, 2006)

Oh my goodness, look at them!!! 

Those are some great photos. Keep us updated on how these two are doing!


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## TinysMom (Dec 15, 2006)

They look great - I'm so happy foryou. Keep us updated as they grow more and the fur comes inand their eyes open and the fun starts and....and....and...

You get the idea!

Peg


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## MindAteMum (Dec 16, 2006)

We are hoping the little black one will make it.He's breathing .. Well.. It's hard to explain. He seems to be gaspingfor breath. making little clicking noises? Perhaps his lungs areunderdeveloped? He's also quite smaller then the pink one. Not as'meaty'.

If he dies, will the other one make it?

I am trying to stay optamistic. But.. T_T *whines* My little babies.


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## TinysMom (Dec 16, 2006)

Can you take a more recent photo? And is he breathing with his mouth open? (That isn't good)...

If he passes and you can keep the pink one warm and it is getting fed by mama - it has a good chance...

Peg


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## MindAteMum (Dec 16, 2006)

I did was someone suggested and got a shoeboxand packed it with hay. Then made a indent/hole in the middle for thebabies to nestle into. I took all the fur and nesting and also placedthat in there. We put the box back inside the cage and Potato startedburrowing and digging in the box. Clawing at her babies. We've taken itout. What do you suggest? Should we put them back? The reason wetransfered them is because we found the little black one in the corner,cold! We don't want them to freeze.

I could take a photo, yes, if you'd like? We just tucked them away toget cozy. Is there such thing as handling them too much? And yes. He'sseeming to gasp for breath with his little mouth opening. What doesthat mean?


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## TinysMom (Dec 16, 2006)

I would take the babies away from her and thentake them to her a few times per day until she nurses them and thenevery 8-12 hours after that give her a chance to nurse.

You need to warm up that little one ASAP. He could be gasping becausehe's cold and trying to cry - or he could be gasping due to breathingproblems. If he stops gasping when he gets warm....he may be ok.

I get babies warm one of two ways....either I hold them cupped in myhands with a hand over them and under them - or I have warmed them upin the past by tucking them in my clothing.

DO NOT use a heating pad as they can get too warm...I once lost alitter by putting the nestbox on one of those things that you pull thebacking off of and it stays warm for 8-12 hours for soremuscles? I forget the name of it..

If my batteries were charged, I would take a photo for you of what I do - I just had to remove a litter from their mom....

I take a piece of fabric and put them in it and then I fill the basketwith hay and push it up against them so they can't get out of thefabric. The fabric sort of makes a bowl? I use an old washcloth orflannel - I try to use flannel since it doesn't have stray strings.

But the fabric becomes their nest and they can't really get out (anddon't want to get out) because of the way the hay supports the fabricso it encloses them....

Am I making any sense?

All I can say is - get that baby warmed up by holding it and maybebreathing on it. You can also throw a washcloth in the microwave for 30seconds or in a dryer for a couple of minutes and then put them in thatto help them stay warm (but the babies do NOT go in the microwave ordryer - just the cloth to get it warm).

Peg*


MindAteMum wrote: *


> I did was someonesuggested and got a shoebox and packed it with hay. Then made aindent/hole in the middle for the babies to nestle into. I took all thefur and nesting and also placed that in there. We put the box backinside the cage and Potato started burrowing and digging in the box.Clawing at her babies. We've taken it out. What do you suggest? Shouldwe put them back? The reason we transfered them is because we found thelittle black one in the corner, cold! We don't want them to freeze.
> 
> I could take a photo, yes, if you'd like? We just tucked them away toget cozy. Is there such thing as handling them too much? And yes. He'sseeming to gasp for breath with his little mouth opening. What doesthat mean?


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## MindAteMum (Dec 16, 2006)

Thank you Peg, for all of your help. Especially this late at night. *giggles*

I think I understand what you are saying? I am not sure, for sure. Apicture wold be great if you have the chance! But it's no big deal ifyou cannot get that.

So for now we have gotten the little one a bit warmer. We are afraid tosleep! Last time we slept the little one died. Should we just leavethem in the nest box covered with fur and hay over night? Anysuggestions in this area to help us sleep better would be great.

Unfortunatly, we don't have a microwave. and the dryer is a dollar tous. So we are using warm hands and plenty of love to keep this littleguy warm. T_T

Just tell me if you need photos. And what you need photos of.


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## TinysMom (Dec 16, 2006)

My only real concern as far as photos goes wasto see if his tummy looked shrunken at all - and to see how badly hewas gasping for air - like if his mouth was wide open (which means he'sstruggling) or if he was just opening it a bit.

The big thing to consider is - as he warms up - does he continue toopen his mouth and make noises...or does it stop? If he continues toopen his mouth - especially if it is wide....he is struggling and theodds of losing him are strong. If he settles down - then hewas probably just cold and trying to cry for help. Yes - I've hadbabies cry...and it is pitiful.

Also - did you actually SEE mama clean the babies? If not - take awarm, damp cotton ball or paper towel and wipe their privates....theyHAVE to pee and poop or it will kind of poison inside of them.....somake sure that they don't need to pee and poop. 

Kimbo had one that we thought had been nursed - turned out that ithadn't peed and by the time it peed....it was too weak to be saved. 

Peg


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## MindAteMum (Dec 16, 2006)

Well he's not opening his mouth fully forbreaths. Just a little. The plump one has normal breathing, smooth. Thelittle one has sort of a sharp breathing once and a while. We arekeeping a good eye on him for sure.

We can indeed do the cotton ball thing, just to be on the safe side. Wehave noticed her cleaning them now and again. Atleast the larger one!We are not sure about the smaller kiddo.

Not to sound like a broken record, but: How should we deal with them for our sleeping time? *smiles*

Again, Peg, I thank you with all of my heart.
You have helped me, and the babies more than you will know.
Very very much appreciated. :heart:


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## TinysMom (Dec 16, 2006)

You mean you don't want to stay up with them allnight and check them every 5 minutes? Or sleep with them in your hands(JUST JOKING.....TOO RISKY!).

You could go to sleep and check on them every 2 hours or so. The biggest thing right now is ... well....more than one thing.

a. Warmth - gotta keep them warm

b. Food - gotta make sure they have full tummies

c. Cleaning - gotta make sure they don't need to pee or poop and that the full tummy is really FOOD and not pee..

One thing to consider by the way - is how well is the baby holding histemperature once you warm him up? Is he staying warm? Is hecooling down quickly?

I've found that babies that can't hold their body temperature - evenwhen tucked in with another baby...can't make it. I don't want to soundbad or mean - but I've tried to save enough of them that I haverealized that there are times I just can't save them - and that is oneof the biggest indicators I have.

I think what I'd do if I was you - was to check the baby's temperaturenow - and then again in half an hour. Does it feel as warm or warmer?

Then you can probably sleep for 4 hours as long as it can't get out of the little nest you've made. 

If it isn't holding its body temperature well - prepare yourself thatyou will probably lose it (sorry) - try to save it - and check themevery hour or two...

Peg

P.S. It is my personal belief that if you're careful withbabies - you can't handle them too much as long as mama will stillnurse them. I believe the more a baby is held and cuddled - the moresocialized it becomes. Harriet was in my first litter - a single manelionhead. That baby would cuddle in my hands for 20 minutes at a timeand sleep - unlike the litter mates who would squirm out of my hand. Ibonded with Harriet before "her" eyes even opened. I didn't want achestnut - especially a SINGLE MANE...but darn it - that bunny loved meand licked me even before its eyes were open. By the timeHarriet turned into a boy....he had learned his name as Harriet and ithas stuck. I still keep him. I don't breed him and never will....but heis my cuddler and he begs for fruit loops and stuff.

I honestly believe much of his personality is because I would cuddlehim for 20 minutes or more at a time before his eyes even opened.People see him now and they are amazed at just how sweet he is...*

MindAteMum wrote: *


> Not to sound like abroken record, but: How should we deal with them for our sleeping time?*smiles*
> :heart:


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## MindAteMum (Dec 16, 2006)

aww. I will love them both! And they will both kiss me! *shakefist* hehe.

He seems to be just a bit colder then the other after settling in thenest for 15-20 minutes. We know the other one is fine. He's larger andplumper and moving around a lot more then the little black one. (Iwonder what color he will be!!) I am excited, but nervous. ;.;


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## TinysMom (Dec 16, 2006)

Is he starting to develop black around his ears? If so - he might be tortoise but I don't know....

Here are some links you might want to check out:

http://geocities.com/hoppinherdofhares2003/kitcolorguide.html

http://islandgems.net/compatible-colors.html

Peg*

MindAteMum wrote: *


> (I wonder what color he will be!!) I am excited, but nervous. ;.;


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## TinysMom (Dec 16, 2006)

bumping for an update on both babies!


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## MindAteMum (Dec 16, 2006)

The little black one died last night. But the white one is still doing very well!

We are hoping me makes it. Pictures later!


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## TinysMom (Dec 16, 2006)

Oh I'm so sorry. 

Please do keep us updated on the other one. I hope it makes it.

Peg


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## LuvaBun (Dec 16, 2006)

Aww, I'm sorry you lost one. Is Potato being a good mom to the one that is left? I will be praying that this one makes it!

jan


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## AngelnSnuffy (Dec 16, 2006)

Oh no,sorry to hear that. I really hope this one makes it. Good Luck!


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## MindAteMum (Dec 17, 2006)

Our little trooper. If he/she lives. We are going to keep him. He's a special little guy!

DAY 2!!! YAY!!

http://www.eatmycreativegenius.org/Photography/Pets/Bunneh/Babies/Day2/


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## MindAteMum (Dec 17, 2006)

I forgot to upload my favorite image!!


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## NZminilops (Dec 17, 2006)

So beautiful! What a lovely colour, sort oftricky to tell what it will be but doesn't quite look like a tort tome, but I've only had 11 bubs (all tort, lol) so I'm not really verygood at telling.

These were my second lot on day 2, they were all torts and broken torts.








I was really sad to read about the passing of the other babies, themama rabbit must have been a bit stressed out. She is really beautiful!Her little baby should be beautiful too .


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