# Please help! Giving birth? Preparing?



## Thumperina (May 15, 2012)

We have 2 young rabbits, born inJanuary, so they should be about 5 months old. Not sure about the breed, but femaly looks like brown rabbit under letters "it" in the word "rabbit" in the header (with ears up). They have a hutch where they go for a night. Otherwise they have fenced backyard to run around where they spend a day. We live in Kansas, it will begetting really hot soon. In the hot daysin the past I was taking them inside when I saw they didnot do very well. 

We have several problems with habitat. I would love to have the hutch in the backyard as well, butbackyard faces west and there is absolutely no trees so it gets miserably hot in the afternoon. There is a large deckon the backso the rabbits like to sit under it on the cooler cement. The hutch is located at the side of the house. Another problem is that rabbits can't get in and out of it by themselves --- it has opening only on the top. So I take them out and in every day (have to pick them up). 

The male has been mounting the female during the last month. I don't know if she is pregnant or not but she is acting strange. We have AC unit on the back that stands on the piece of cement. She digged a long hole going underground under that cement. Strange thing is that she is opening and closing the hole with the dirt back and forth. If I take a shovel and open the hole, in a little bit I will find the entrance covered with dirt. So I left it along. Today she spent a day bringing hay and grass in her mouth into that long underground hole. Is she making a nest? I haven't noticed any hair pulling so far. Are babies going to survive in that tunnel if she constantly covering the entrance with dirt? How should we use AC unit? it makes a lot of noise. We haven't been using it for the last week as it was cool. 

I know it is cooler underground. But otherwise that spot is under direct sunlight. Forecast shows 85F for the next 10 days. I will try to provide shade in that area making a canopy. 

The main question is: should I keep taking her to thehutch for a night? We are trying to modify the hutch so they can get in and out without being picked up. The fence is also needed around the hutch, this is a question of time. 

Should I let her have babies in that underground hole? How to use AC then? Should I restrict the male from that area? Does mama rabbit need privacy? Is there any way to say how soon the babies are coming? I am desperate. I don't want to harm my dear Thumperina, she is so smart. And I don't want her children to die. Thanks God, semester at the college is over so I can contribute more time to this problem. 

Please help me with advise!


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## majorv (May 15, 2012)

I would leave well enough alone, for now. She found a place to have them. My personal opinion is that she was too young to be bred, but it sounds like you didn't do anything to keep them apart. Unless you want a growing population you need to either keep them apart or get the male neutered. That would be cheaper than get the female spayed.


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## LakeCondo (May 15, 2012)

Though spaying costs more, it increases life expectancy while neutering a male may not.


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## Thumperina (May 15, 2012)

*LakeCondo wrote: *


> Though spaying costs more, it increases life expectancy while neutering a male may not.


Thank you. I agree we were notvery wellaware and prepared for everything. People we got them from had the first litter when their rabbits were about 8 months old and they always stayed together. 

We did want them to have at least one litter. Didn't think it was going tohappen that fast though. 

What did you mean saying about "life expectancy"?


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## ZRabbits (May 15, 2012)

*Thumperina wrote: *


> *LakeCondo wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Though spaying costs more, it increases life expectancy while neutering a male may not.
> ...




Does unfortunately do get cancer of the reproduction organs. More than males. Spaying a doe will possibly extend their lives. Males being neutered, well, just really good to get rid of marking and hormonal agression. Will not really extend their lives as much as spaying a doe will do.

If you are planning on just experiencing one litter, I would then after weaning the babies have the female spayed. That will stop more pregnancies and also give your doe a possible longer healthier life.

K


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## Thumperina (May 15, 2012)

*majorv wrote: *


> I would leave well enough alone, for now. She found a place to have them. My personal opinion is that she was too young to be bred, but it sounds like you didn't do anything to keep them apart. Unless you want a growing population you need to either keep them apart or get the male neutered. That would be cheaper than get the female spayed.



Thank you. Should I leave her out for a night then? I am afraid of predators (have never seen anybody though, our house is close to the gas station and the main street, so this area is not very secluded).

Last night I put the female to thehutch and gave her lots of hay and the box... shedid not do anything with the box. Do theyalways give birth at night or early morning? Ihope she hasn't had her babies yet in that tunnel.How oftenbabiesneed to be fed? 

The male spent a night separetely, inside the house. 

Yes, we will need to fix one of them. Forright now my concern are thepregnancy and the babies.


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## Thumperina (May 15, 2012)

*ZRabbits wrote: *


> *Thumperina wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *LakeCondo wrote: *
> ...


Thanks! in general, is parenthood good for them? I guess it makes no difference for the male, but I thought the female benefit from a few litters. So, they get cancer IF they have babies,but donot have it whenthey are spayed?I know that pregnancy is good for
a woman. Are rabbits different?


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## ZRabbits (May 15, 2012)

*Thumperina wrote: *


> *ZRabbits wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *Thumperina wrote: *
> ...


Generally parenthood does give does a sense of accomplishment and will mellow them.Some will get aggressive when not pregnant. That's when spaying can help. Removes the hormones that surge. My rule of thumb after reading everything under the sun and also thinking of future plans for my own doe, is if not breeding you should spay. Even after breeding my own doe, I'm thinking of spaying once she retires. 

K


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## Thumperina (May 15, 2012)

I see. I found contradictory info about mating rabbits from the same litter. Some sources say it is OK and even good as they get along better, others - it should never be done. So what is the truth?

I have to add that both my rabbits are mellow, not aggressive at all.


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## ZRabbits (May 15, 2012)

*Thumperina wrote: *


> I see. I found contradictory info about mating rabbits from the same litter. Some sources say it is OK and even good as they get along better, others - it should never be done. So what is the truth?
> 
> I have to add that both my rabbits are mellow, not aggressive at all.



When mating brothers and sisters, the bad traits of the bunny usually comes out. IE: bad teeth, bad forming fur on socks, bad crown, pinched hindquarters. Something that you don't want to continue in your rabbitry. That's why getting two unrelated is more proferrable. 

If you are just breeding for pets, as long as their is no underlying problems, and your bunnies are mellow, I don't see the problem. Just make sure if any breeders or show people are interested in your bunnies to be up front and honest and show them what you did. But sounds like they will be perfect for pets. Non-aggressive is definitely a good trait to pass on.

K


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## Thumperina (May 15, 2012)

*majorv wrote: *


> I would leave well enough alone, for now. She found a place to have them


There are many reasons why that spot would be awful: no decent shade and very hot, airconditioning will need to work with noise and vibration, exposure to predators, etc. 

If she is forced to stay in a different spot when it's time (which should be also comfortable -- lots of hay, protection), will she givebirth all right?


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## majorv (May 15, 2012)

She's young and a first time mom, so you run the risk of losing the litter if she's stressed out too much. If she hasn't had them yet then you can try to move her to the hutch and give her hay to make a nest. Just have to see.


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## melbaby80 (May 15, 2012)

Recommended breeding age is 6 months. You said yours are 5 months so I would think just a months difference isn't too large. From everything I have read even older mothers can be bad mothers, its all up to the rabbit.


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## ZRabbits (May 15, 2012)

Have to agree, first time mom's do have a stressful time. It's "Party Time" if one successfully raises and weans her first litter. One month shy of the recommended breeding mark, won't hurt. I would also move her to the comfortable spot. Put hay in it and a nest box. Being it's her first time, hoping she makes a nest. Don't be upset if it doesn't work out. Many people have been through this and I am nervous as well at what Luna will do her first time. 

Wishing you luck. Just watch her and hope she is one of the those "easy" first time mom's. But don't beat yourself up if she fails. It's a part of life in rabbit breeding. That's why you will see ads with "Proven" doe. Means she made it through that first time. 

Keep us posted.

K


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## Thumperina (May 15, 2012)

Thanks everybody for being here and talking to me! It helps. 

Oh, I don't know how to force them into the cooler place. In the past I was just forcing them from under the deck, catching them and taking to the basement. now, I don't want to force but it's hot out there. I opened the garage door a bit, turned on the fan in garage but they are not coming --just laying under the deck breathing hard. They for some reasons don't drink water or drink very little. But they eat lots of grass. Almost all the water remains in container. I am using regular tap water.

Also they don't really eat Timothy hay I bought in the store. Should I try alfalfa?


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## ZRabbits (May 15, 2012)

*Thumperina wrote: *


> Thanks everybody for being here and talking to me! It helps.
> 
> Oh, I don't know how to force them into the cooler place. In the past I was just forcing them from under the deck, catching them and taking to the basement. now, I don't want to force but it's hot out there. I opened the garage door a bit, turned on the fan in garage but they are not coming --just laying under the deck breathing hard. They for some reasons don't drink water or drink very little. But they eat lots of grass. Almost all the water remains in container. I am using regular tap water.
> 
> Also they don't really eat Timothy hay I bought in the store. Should I try alfalfa?



The reason less water consumption is they are getting the water through eating the grass. I find my boys will drink less if more greens are given. If you want them to drink more water, have you tried a little apple cider vinegar in your water. A few drops does change the taste. And all my bunnies love it. 

The alfalfa is sweeter than timothy. Maybe they will eat it. It will definitely benefit your pregnant doe. Alfalfa should be given to help keep weight and also help her with lactating. 

K


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## Thumperina (May 15, 2012)

*melbaby80 wrote: *


> Recommended breeding age is 6 months. You said yours are 5 months so I would think just a months difference isn't too large. From everything I have read even older mothers can be bad mothers, its all up to the rabbit.


You know, this rabbithas proven to be the smart one. Will bevery sad to lose the litter because of lack of organization from our side (didn't provide a good spot where she would feel safe). People who made us a hutch keep their rabbits outside in the cage all the time -- we chose to havethem differently, this is why we are having problems with that hutch.


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## majorv (May 15, 2012)

melbaby80 wrote:


> Recommended breeding age is 6 months. You said yours are 5 months so I would think just a months difference isn't too large. From everything I have read even older mothers can be bad mothers, its all up to the rabbit.



Generally, recommended breeding age is 6 months. Her rabbit is 5 months now, so she was 4 months old when bred. 

I sold a trio of rabbits to a teen ager and asked her to not breed the youngest one yet - who was 4 months. She agreed, but evidently didn't follow my advice. She was calling me a month later telling me that the young doe had 2 babies, both dead. I'm certainly not saying that always happens, but moms that young are basically like teenagers having babies. I hope everything works out for yours.


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## majorv (May 15, 2012)

ZRabbits wrote:


> *Thumperina wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I see. I found contradictory info about mating rabbits from the same litter. Some sources say it is OK and even good as they get along better, others - it should never be done. So what is the truth?
> ...



There are varying opinions about breeding siblings. Line breeding is common (breeding father to daughter or mother to son). Then you bring in an unrelated rabbit to breed to their offspring. We avoid breeding full siblings, but we breed for show rather than pet.


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## Thumperina (May 15, 2012)

No nesting behavior today at all, except for some hair pulled out under the deck to the cement. But it was hot all day, even hotter tomorrow.


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## woahlookitsme (May 16, 2012)

As far as breeding siblings there can always be variances. My friend just told me when she even line bred daughter to father both babies didn't survive past 4 weeks. She said they looked like they came down with mucoid enteritis. If it was due to linebreeding no one can really determine but good things and bad things can happen. 

I would check the hole every day. If she is pulling fur she may be close to birthing. Most bun moms give birth at night or early morning and then we have only had one that give birth either late morning or early afternoon. Also babies are fed 1-2 times a day. Usually at night or early morning. Definitely check the hole or where ever she is nesting in the morning.


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## Thumperina (May 16, 2012)

woahlookitsme, thanks. I don't quiet understand about checking the hole. I thought people were not supposed to touch the babies at all. The problem is that the hole is narrow and long, my arm wouldn't reach the end. I was using flashlight to see in there but can't say that I could really see well inside. When my rabbit sat in it, I could hardly see her. 
What to do if I check and see babies?

Doyour rabbits in Texas live indoors? If not, how they survive the heat?


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## LindseyG (May 16, 2012)

The rabbit has probably already given birth if she is covering the hole and pulling hair. It is perfectly alright to touch the babies. You will actually definitely want to touch them to check on them and make sure all are alive and doing well. It is ok to handle them from day one. It is a myth that they will get abandoned. One dead baby can make all the other babies sick so checking the nest is very important. Also if not held from an early age the baby rabbits will be flighty and won't make very good pets. By the time they come out of the hole they will be scared to death of humans and almost wild. Is there any way you can put something over the hole that will shade it? The ground should be much cooler than everything else, wild rabbits dig burrows like this to have their babies.


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## woahlookitsme (May 16, 2012)

Everything that Lindsey Said and No Our rabbits live outdoors. In the summer I am usually home between school and work in the hottest part of the day. Our rabbits are kept in hutches off the ground with metal roofing and insulation at the top. They are surrounded by fencing on two sides and our house on one side with the northside being the only open side. So, we use fans on almost every cage or they are at least able to feel the fan from a cage over. In the hot summer we filled water bowls three times a day and I would put ice in them during mid day. I also brought out frozen gatorade and powerade bottles (1 for single buns and 2+ for mom and litters). Also in the cages each rabbit has big 12x12inch ceramic tiles (in the summer they are on the slick side and in the winter we turn them over). My mom when she came home would also take water and rub it on the buns ears I would also rub some over their body to help cool down when wind blew. 

If any rabbits were panting or had saliva on chins we would immediately bring them inside in carriers. We had to do this to only two rabbits (mother and son actually lol)

We didnt lose a single rabbit even when there was a 24day streak of 100+ temperatures. *Knocks on wood* hopefully it will be better this summer


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## Thumperina (May 16, 2012)

Thanks everybody! 
I have checked the hole with the flashlight and haven't discovered anything. The rabbit hasn't been in the hole since Monday. On Monday she was very active bringing hay there,but almost no activities since that. 
I was giving them plastic milk containers with frozen water, but they ignored it. But they haven't seen a really hot weather yet.


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## Thumperina (May 16, 2012)

Still no sign of babies has ben discovered, I just checked the box she had for the last night. I wonder if she can have false pregnancy at this age. I need to learn how to pulpate her tummy. 
I have read thatdoe needs to lift up her tail to allowbuck to mate with her. He can mount her frequently without really mating, but thedoe needs to say "OK", and this happens at about 6 months of her age. Do you think this makes sense? I had hoped this would be our case.
Can buck be neutered at any age? 5 month is not too young?


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## woahlookitsme (May 16, 2012)

vets ask that bucks be neutered when their testicles drop (5-6mos). Its just much easier to perform the surgery and they dont have to go in and find the testes. 

She could have a false pregnancy but if you never saw the animals mate every time they did then there is no way of saying either or. 

In the wild rabbits wont visit the nest as often once the babies are born to avoid bringing in predators. It is possible you haven't found them but it is also possible there is none at all. I checked my baby count on the first day my rabbit had them on monday and counted 4. Then just last night I pulled them out and sure enough there were 5 there. And mine are just in a small wooden box. You think I'd be able to find 5 babies lol 

Keep watching the hole. I'm not 100% on wild mother behavior but I hope everything turns out okay. Once babies are 10-14 days old their eyes are starting to open and they will adventure out of the nest.


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## LindseyG (May 16, 2012)

Thumperina wrote:


> Still no sign of babies has ben discovered, I just checked the box she had for the last night. I wonder if she can have false pregnancy at this age. I need to learn how to pulpate her tummy.
> I have read thatÂ doe needs to lift up her tail to allowÂ buck to mate with her. He can mount her frequently without really mating, but theÂ doe needs to say "OK", and this happens at about 6 months of her age. Do you think this makes sense? I had hoped this would be our case.
> Can buck be neutered at any age? 5 month is not too young?


Rabbits only visit their nest once per day to feed the babies. You do not see this because it is only at night, they typically ignore the nest all other times of day/night. 
Usually rabbit's are sexually mature and can get pregnant at 4 months old. My doe was lifting while I pet her at 15 weeks old. 

Also bucks can be neutered when their testicles are descended and at least 2 lbs.


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## Thumperina (May 16, 2012)

Thank you all! 
I have a question about pellets, don't know if there is particular topic about them or should I ask here.

A lot of pellets say - for adult rabbits, others just say for rabbits. But I have never seen pellets for the young rabbits. What are the good pellets for young rabbits?


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## Thumperina (May 17, 2012)

I wonder if the litter can die from the heat, if there is about 90F ouside (if we suggest that mama feeds them). Does anyone know?


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## Nela (May 17, 2012)

Just a thought, perhaps a bit 'out there' but if you got a parasol to provide shade on the hutch, maybe that would help a bit. Of course, it's not perfect, but some shade is better than none. 

As for them overheating, I don't think so. I think mama picked a good/bad spot there. Lol.It will be significantly cooler underground, especially under the cement. So even though it's a bad spot for you, she did what came naturally to her and found a good spot for her babies.

I was thinking... If she has had babies already, she will be lactating. Does the milk come in much earlier than that?I don't think it does.If not, that could be a good indication for you. If she isn't, then perhaps that would mean that she doesn't have them yet or that it's a pseudo-pregnancy. At that point, you could probably decide on where she should have the babies, if any, where it would be easier for you to keep an eye on them. How about her food, has she been eating more, does she look rounder, have you kept your hand on her belly to see if you can feel movement?

If she does have babies in that tunnel, she will not go in often as to not attract attention. She'll probably go something like twice a day to feed them and that's it. 

Personally, I would prefer to make her have them somewhere where I can assist her and keep an eye on the babies. When they will grow, they will start leaving the nest and they are still tiny and I wouldn't want them hopping about on their own then, as they would be an very easy prey.


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## Thumperina (May 17, 2012)

Thank you! 
Actually, her attention is not at that hole anymore. The last day of her activity there was MOnday but nothing since that. We got a new fence, so that they now have access to the back (shade in the morning but very bad sun in the afternoon), side (shaded till 5pm) and front (shaded most of the time and really shaded in the second part of the day). I also offered her a box with hay in a different spot (its under the hutch, I surrounded the hutch by boxes around all the sides with narrow way out), and she seems to like it. She has moved from under the deck to under the hutch which makes me a little relieved. I am checking the box every day but nothing so far. She even doesnot pull out her hair to put into the box. Right now I saw her sitting inside of that box. 
The boy...he is sitting by her. He spends a night on his own in the hutch that drives him crazy. Today, when I got him out of the hutch, he was shaking like in a big stress. I know I am advised to separate them, but I don't know how to do it. They are so attached! Its like suddenly having twin kids to live in separate houses. 
I think we should wait to neuter him till 6 month old. Is this a good idea or bad?


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## LindseyG (May 17, 2012)

In my opinion she has already had them in the hole. Rabbits tend to completely ignore their nest/babies especially when people are watching. Also she could already be pregnant again if she has had contact like that with the male. They can get pregnant less than a day after giving birth. Can you feel her mammary glands and see if they are swollen. If they are that is a sure sign that she is nursing babies.


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## Thumperina (May 17, 2012)

Does anyone know in what position they feed the babies? Do they lie or stand? I want to make sure there is enough space under the hutch.


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## Thumperina (May 17, 2012)

*LindseyG wrote: *


> Can you feel her mammary glands and see if they are swollen.


I will try. Do they looklike nipples? 

Iwas askedif she looked rounded. No, she is not. Not a lot of change inthe mood, too.


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## LindseyG (May 17, 2012)

if you feel under her belly it they will just feel swollen and full of milk. They stand over the babies to nurse them.


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## Thumperina (May 18, 2012)

Looks like me girl rabbit is just playing pregnancy/babies. I today examined her, nothing found in her belly, nothing in the nipples. She is not pulling out her hair, she adores the nest box I gave her and she was seen today with the hay in her mouth again. Well, maybe she is preparing...


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## Thumperina (Jun 3, 2012)

Hello,
Would anybody please tell me if rabbit can get pregnant again before she gives birth? or, like humans, they can't?

My daughter got a book in a library "Why do rabbits hop". The book says that rabbits can have babies up to 3 times a year. Does anyone know what this based on? Thanks.


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## Thumperina (Jun 22, 2012)

My doe keeps nesting from time to time. 
Here is the schedule of her nestings (when she is seen making an underground tunnel, taking there hay in her mouth and pulling out her hair): 
May 14th
June 1st 
June 21st. 

No signs of bunnies appeared after first 2 nestings. She was busy nesting for only a day each time, then she forgot about tunnels and never came back. As we can see, there is appr. 20 days between "nestings"
On the second time, I secretly checked the tunnel a few days after she lost her interest to it. I find there a huge bunch of hay and her fur, but no bunnies. 
Do nestings look like just hormones (false pregnancy?), or is there a chance she is eating her litter? Remember, 20 days between nestings and nothing else. 
She is between 5 and 6 month old, maybe 6 now.


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## wendymac (Jun 22, 2012)

It doesn't sound like she got pregnant. Now is the time to separate the buck from the doe. There is no medical reason why they should have a litter before being spayed/neutered. And the chances of mammary cancer are lower if they're spayed without having babies (at least with dogs and cats, so I would assume it's the same for all animals). 

The reason he's shaking is because he knows he's about to be put with a doe, and he's going to try breeding her. LOL

I wouldn't breed brother to sister. Unless they are both exemplary for their breed, and you know ALL the genetic problems in their line, you're taking a big chance.


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## Thumperina (Jun 22, 2012)

*wendymac wrote: *


> It doesn't sound like she got pregnant. Now is the time to separate the buck from the doe. There is no medical reason why they should have a litter before being spayed/neutered. And the chances of mammary cancer are lower if they're spayed without having babies (at least with dogs and cats, so I would assume it's the same for all animals).
> 
> The reason he's shaking is because he knows he's about to be put with a doe, and he's going to try breeding her. LOL
> 
> I wouldn't breed brother to sister. Unless they are both exemplary for their breed, and you know ALL the genetic problems in their line, you're taking a big chance.


Thank you, Wendy. We want the doe to have babies at least once - I guess, a little later. Probably not with her brother,u'r right.
I wonder, if every buck is neutered, how do people breed rabbits?sounds likeneutering is advice that every bunny owner gets. 
If we neuter ours, how do people make arrangements about breeding unrelated rabbits from different owners? I don't know anybody who has the unneutered buck rabbit. Dothey split the litter to both owners afterwards?Or, is litter the doe's family responsibility? We don't want any fancy rabbits for sale,wejust want some good petbunnies (andmine are good pet rabbits: they were born in January in the first for their mom litter, they survived, they are absolutely not aggressive and seem healthy). 

What is funny, she doesnot seem to need him around at all - she is much happier when left alone.


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## Thumperina (Jun 22, 2012)

*wendymac wrote: *


> Unless they are both exemplary for their breed, and you know ALL the genetic problems in their line, you're taking a big chance.


No, we don't have a lot of info. I think that their parents alsoare siblings, but they can'ttell us for sure as they don't know...


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## Thumperina (Jun 22, 2012)

Could anyone advise please on how to prevent the doe from nesting in unexpected areas? The rabbit has a hutch to spend a night and is set free in the yard. 
All the videos I watchced showing nice hutches with nice nesting boxes while my doe is sitting in the underground tunnel and pulling out her hair. 
Who knows, she may BE pregnant this time. SHE STOPPED EATING (no pellets, not even carrots that she loves). What could it mean?


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## Thumperina (Jun 22, 2012)

Oh, I pulpated her today but haven't found anything, but I am not experienced in it.


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## LindseyG (Jun 22, 2012)

Put the doe in a hutch...honestly that is the only way to make sure she has them in the right spot.


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## Thumperina (Jun 22, 2012)

*LindseyG wrote: *


> Put the doe in a hutch...honestly that is the only way to make sure she has them in the right spot.



For how long? (well, I guess till she had babies. I am not even sure that she is pregnant). What about predators? I knowwe don't have any (except for the cat wandering around rarely), butthe doedoesn't know it. It's very normal to make a nest in secluded area where rabbits don'tlive,from the rabbit's perspective. Hutch is the place where everything is about rabbit's presence

But we will try, thank you!


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## Lydia (Jun 22, 2012)

Please do put the female in the hutch, and don't let the male near her. We found out the hard way that it is a VERY bad idea to let the male be near the female when you are unsure if she is pregnant or when she is due. Our first rabbits, Fred & Ethel had their first litter on 1 Nov 2011. We didn't know to separate them at the time, thinking he would help her with the babies. To make matters worse, we didn't know she had had the babies until a few days later. Fred used that time to get her pregnant again, and when her first litter was barely 4 weeks old she was having to abandon them for another litter.

Please put the female in a controlled place, like the hutch, where you can monitor her. Not only are you inviting her having the babies in a hard to reach place like the underground hole, you also risk her having the babies in random places on the ground. Sometimes a panicked female will give birth while moving, leaving the babies in random places on the floor. Giving her a structured environment with a set place to nest and plenty of soft nesting materials (like paper towels, hay, etc), will give you and her both peace of mind. Mother bunnies are sneaky, protective, territorial, and over all worry warts. They will try to hide their babies from you if you don't control the situation. 

You obviously care for these bunnies, and want what's best for them. So please, double check that she hasn't given birth in that hole or elsewhere in the yard and put her in the hutch to nest.


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## Thumperina (Jun 22, 2012)

I've ordered a nest box from Petco, but in doubt if it's enough large. The dimentions are
11"W x 16"L x 10"H 
Do you this this is a good size for rabbits?

http://www.petco.com/product/113064/WARE-Wooden-Nest-Box-for-Chickens-And-Rabbits.aspx?CoreCat=certona-_-ProductDetail_3-_-WARE%20Wooden%20Nest%20Box%20for%20Chickens%20%26%20Rabbits-113064


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## Lydia (Jun 22, 2012)

Depending on the rabbit, that should be fine. You want something that she can stand in to nurse the babies and feel secure, but not something that is so large she wants to lounge in it or use it as a new litter box.

We have used medium sized cardboard boxes with our girls when they had babies, and they liked the security of being able to "hide" their babies in the back of their boxes. Plus, if the box was strong enough, they could sit on top of the box and be watch bunnies.


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## Thumperina (Jun 22, 2012)

*Lydia wrote: *


> Please do put the female in the hutch, and don't let the male near her. We found out the hard way that it is a VERY bad idea to let the male be near the female when you are unsure if she is pregnant or when she is due. Our first rabbits, Fred & Ethel had their first litter on 1 Nov 2011. We didn't know to separate them at the time, thinking he would help her with the babies. To make matters worse, we didn't know she had had the babies until a few days later. Fred used that time to get her pregnant again, and when her first litter was barely 4 weeks old she was having to abandon them for another litter.
> 
> Please put the female in a controlled place, like the hutch, where you can monitor her. Not only are you inviting her having the babies in a hard to reach place like the underground hole, you also risk her having the babies in random places on the ground. Sometimes a panicked female will give birth while moving, leaving the babies in random places on the floor. Giving her a structured environment with a set place to nest and plenty of soft nesting materials (like paper towels, hay, etc), will give you and her both peace of mind. Mother bunnies are sneaky, protective, territorial, and over all worry warts. They will try to hide their babies from you if you don't control the situation.
> 
> You obviously care for these bunnies, and want what's best for them. So please, double check that she hasn't given birth in that hole or elsewhere in the yard and put her in the hutch to nest.



Lydia, thank you for sharing your personal experience! It's very helpful. 

She IS in the hutch every night, alone, locked. There is lots of hay in there. So, if she ever has her babies at night, this is going to be in the hutch, not underground (if this luckily happens at night). We need to make another hutch for either her or the buck as now we have only one for both of them (I am thinking - new, improved hutch for her)


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## Thumperina (Aug 8, 2012)

OH LORD! I was gone for 2 weeks, my husband was watching the rabbits. I got back last Sunday, and today.... (shock) I discovered that my doe has bunnies in the burrow on the front yard. She opened the tunnel entrance and the bunnies got out to feed. I saw at least 2 of them, they have fur - white like the father. I coudn't see for sure about their eyes but they seemed pretty big bunnies. I will get into the whole to see how many she had and if there is any dead bunnies. 
Just before we were gone I took her to the vet (she avoided to step on one of her hind legs) and the doctor didn't say she was pregnant!!! 

Any advise? It's still hot here. Should I move them to hutch? 

The boy gets nuetured tomorrow.


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## LindseyG (Aug 8, 2012)

I would move them to the hutch unless you want completely wild unhandlable babies! They need lots of attention at this young age or they will not be friendly.


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## Thumperina (Aug 8, 2012)

Opened the hole entrance. My arm can't reach, it's too deep.


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## Thumperina (Aug 8, 2012)

got them all. we have 4 VERY ALIVE active bunnies, eyes are open, they covered with fur (they look like little rabbits), about the size of my palm. They were trying to escape when I was getting them. How old can they be? 
Nothing else in the burrow, no dead bunnies, not even hay or mom's fur. Looks like they are doing perfectly fine (thank you Lord) 
I, honestly, put them back into the hole for now (after I made sure its safe), need to organize and move the hutch (cant do it alone), tonight will move bunnies.


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## Thumperina (Aug 8, 2012)

What is best for lining their nest box? I put hay bit it's pretty scratchy.
Also, should I give alfalfa to mom? anything else for the mom? she is very skinny recently


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## MyBabyHasPaws (Aug 8, 2012)

Alfalfa pellets and hay for mom and babies from here on out. Until babies are weaned mom will stay on alfalfa hay and pellets. Babies until 7mnths. I have to go to lunch but i'm going to write more when I get back.


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## MyBabyHasPaws (Aug 8, 2012)

make sure you are giving her LOTS of fresh water (she should have some available all day every day) also, up her on the greens. give her a bit extra.

have you been using Calf Manna for mom? If not, you should be. She's nursing these babies and needs more. I suggest ordering some and giving right away!


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## Thumperina (Aug 8, 2012)

*MyBabyHasPaws wrote: *


> make sure you are giving her LOTS of fresh water (she should have some available all day every day) also, up her on the greens. give her a bit extra.
> 
> have you been using Calf Manna for mom? If not, you should be. She's nursing these babies and needs more. I suggest ordering some and giving right away!



Never heard about Calf Manna, I today saw the bannies for the first time. What is a good place to get it? 

I ordered a sample of Sherwood forest food.


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## Thumperina (Aug 8, 2012)

A question: what is better for them - Calf Manna 0r Sherwood forest for growers? 
I saw Calf Manna in the store today but didn't get it. My rabbits hardly eat pelleted food.
At what age are bunnies supposed to start getting special pelleted food?


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## Thumperina (Aug 8, 2012)

ok, I got it - CalfManna is a supplement, not a food I bought it, but the doe hasn't touched it yet.


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## Rescuemom (Aug 8, 2012)

_"Thanks! in general, is parenthood good for them? I guess it makes no difference for the male, but I thought the female benefit from a few litters."_

This is exactly the thought(and wanting to experience it) that many people have that often leads to overpopulation.

No. It does not BENEFIT any animal - in fact, there can be complications with any animal giving birth. Trust me, been there, seen that - I'm into rescue and have seen it far too often in everything from rodents to canines and so on and so forth.

Please don't breed your rabbits if they aren't pregnant. Please get them fixed or keep them separate if you can't. Don't add to the overpopulation of animals needing to be rescued.

JMO. I don't mean to come off as rude and hope you do not take this rudely.


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## MyBabyHasPaws (Aug 9, 2012)

sorry its taken me so long to reply.

Oreo looked at the Calfmanna sides ways when I first gave it to her. She didnt really eat it the first few hours it was in her bowl. Once she tried it she went crazy for it and picked around her pellets to eat it. Now, as soon as she sees the bag she goes nuts! 

When you start giving her extra greens watch that her poop doesnt get too mushy, because then you're giving her too much. it took me a couple days to get it just right. Oreo is a big hay eater and I make sure her and the babies have fresh hay available all the time, for the babies ive been putting just a bit of timothy and lots of alfalfa hay.. on the top level I fill Oreo's bin with an even mixture of alfalfa and tiimothy. I also have a full bowl of pellets where everyone can reach


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## MyBabyHasPaws (Aug 9, 2012)

Did you put her in the hutch? I think you should..


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## Thumperina (Aug 9, 2012)

What I am thinking...When I transfer babies into the hutch, can't she move them back to the hole? What she did so far proves that she follows her instincts and this worked perfectly. The instinct says not to stay near the babies all the time. By the way, I am very happy she had them underground (it was over 110F all the time) and I am glad I was not around as I would be worrying too much, stressing all the rabbits. 
I know it may sound strange but we do give rabbits the freedom to run around, they are not locked. I used to lock them in the hutch for a night, but my husband didn't do it when I was away for 2 weeks (he goes to sleep early and this is so darn hot during the day that rabbits just start eating grass when he goes to sleep).


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## Thumperina (Aug 9, 2012)

*MyBabyHasPaws wrote: *


> Did you put her in the hutch? I think you should..



do you mean to put babies in the hutch along with the mom and lock the hutch? I WILL put babies in the hutch when we finish a new one (will be in a hurry now) and she willbe there but I will gove her freedom to get out when sheneeds to. 

rescuemom, I inderstand your feelings and don't wantmany rabbits. But we already got some, tomorrow our boy gets fixed, they are separated now. This is all I can do. 

Today I talked to a woman who has rabbits and she said they had several litters but can't afford to fix their pets. Now they ended up keeping the only boy separately while girls can run in the yard. Idon't want this fate to my boy.


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## Thumperina (Aug 9, 2012)

*MyBabyHasPaws wrote: *


> Oreo looked at the Calfmanna sides ways when I first gave it to her. She didnt really eat it the first few hours it was in her bowl. Once she tried it she went crazy for it and picked around her pellets to eat it. Now, as soon as she sees the bag she goes nuts!


Thank you! Do you mix it with regular pellets? One tablespoon a day, right? 

What about your little ones? Do they like it?


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## Thumperina (Aug 9, 2012)

*MyBabyHasPaws wrote: *


> Did you put her in the hutch? I think you should..



She loves the hutch, just likes to lie in it and rest. Again, everything is not that easy. 1. The first problem is the heat. We take our rabbits inside in the afternoon till 8-9pm. Babies will have to stay out all the time (well, I have a nice nesting box, do you think I should bring them in too?). The forecast says it's supposed to cool down a little though. I will keep my fingers crossed. 

2. Back yardhas tall fence but there is no shadein the second part of theday, its miserably hotthere, so I think we will have to have the hutch with babies on the front that has shade all the time. But there is very little grass there and it has 28" tall "rabbit guard" fence. So it is not as safe as the back yard. 

But I am confident we will figureeverything out. Just too many things landed on my head today. Thanks everybody for support. I am very relieved bunnies looked all right when I checked them today. So cute


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## Rescuemom (Aug 9, 2012)

Oh shoot. Sorry, I got ahead of myself and posted when I only saw the first page! Sorry about that, didn't realize she did already have the babies until I realized there were more pages.


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## MyBabyHasPaws (Aug 9, 2012)

I dont give the babies CalfManna, only mom, and 1tablespoon a day 

Well you're situation is different I guess? I would be worried like crazy if my bun had her babies outside in a hole, but she's never been an outdoor bunny. 

Since she is so use to having free roam of the yard locking her in the hutch might stress her. So I think your idea of building a bigger hutch and putting the babies there is good. I wonder if that would stop her from feeding them? I'm not a expert on this, I only know a little bit because I just had a oops litter. She cant move the babies from whereever you put them, they arent like dogs and dont carry their babies in their mouths lol.

Could you build something that gives shade in your backyard? Maybe you could buy one of those Canopy things? We bought one to go to the beach with it, I think it was like $30 @ Walmart. That would be pretty awesome.

Take some pix! I wanna see babies!!


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## Thumperina (Aug 9, 2012)

*Rescuemom wrote: *


> Oh shoot. Sorry, I got ahead of myself and posted when I only saw the first page! Sorry about that, didn't realize she did already have the babies until I realized there were more pages.



Yes, she was nesting since May (false pregnancies) every 20 days. This is why we were not alerted when she was nesting this time. 

I am mad at the doctor she went to. She was seen on July 16th and doctor couldn't say shewas pregnant. Then shegot babies on approximately July 26th, as they look big now.Could it be thatthe pregnancy was impossible to notice 10 days prior due date? Well, I myself was pulpating her from time to time andfelt nothing, but I think the doctor should be more experienced in this.


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## Thumperina (Aug 9, 2012)

*MyBabyHasPaws wrote: *


> I wonder if that would stop her from feeding them?


Oh, I hope not. Its a good thing that babies are not a few days old now, so the mom should be used to them and the necessity to feed them (and I am proud of what a good job she did so far!!!). I was messing with the hole yesterday, left it a little bit open. I was worrying this could turn her out. But I saw this morning that she visited with them as the tunnel is closed again. I wonder how they get air in there. But you are right, I need to move babies to the hutch ASAP.

Today our father gets neutered.He's already gone to doctor, poor thing. He willneed the hutch when he returns as he needs to avoid moving too much. So he will occupy the hutch. I am pressing my husband about finishing the new one. We started to build it in May, when she started nesting so we thought babies were coming. It's still uncompleted. 

By the way, you may be wrong about them not dragging kids in their mouth. My doe got the babies out of the hole to feed them. I guess the tunnel is not enough large for her to nurse there. After she took them back.

I will post the pictures after I take them. Not yet.


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## Thumperina (Aug 9, 2012)

I put babies in the hutch, not sure if I did the right thing. It's still hot. Should they drink water? Mom was feeding them once or twice a day in the tunnel. They look big and move around very fast. I put mom in the hutch too. She looked very confused. When baby tried to suck, she ran away from him, I hope she didn't hurt the baby. I will see how it's going. 

Should I not let the male visit with bunnies? how long? 

What do I feed them and how? I think they are ready for more food. I put Calf-manna into the small bowl but they just spilled it over running. I also gave them a small bowl of water. Will try bottle too.


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## Thumperina (Aug 11, 2012)

Here they are


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## Thumperina (Aug 11, 2012)

This one is not shy at all


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## Thumperina (Aug 11, 2012)

How old can they be? 2 weeks minimum?


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## Thumperina (Aug 11, 2012)

This are the parents (white is a boy, brown is a girl)


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## Hyatt101 (Aug 11, 2012)

Definitely pregnant! In 30-32 days from the last time they bred, she should have the kits. You might want to bring them inside so that there will be a stable temp all the time! Good luck and let her build her nest!!


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## Hyatt101 (Aug 11, 2012)

Sorry, I only saw the top post; but the babies were born! Congrats! Adorable!


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## Thumperina (Aug 11, 2012)

*Hyatt101 wrote: *


> Sorry, I only saw the top post; but the babies were born! Congrats! Adorable!


Yes, and they were born 2-3 months after the first post, so she was NOT pregnant back then. 

Thank you for congrats!


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## Hyatt101 (Aug 11, 2012)

Sorry!! I only saw one page and assumed that was it! haha! send pics of the little babies!!


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## MyBabyHasPaws (Aug 11, 2012)

Ohhhhh they are sooooo cute! Those babies look 3 or 4weeks.


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## Thumperina (Aug 12, 2012)

*MyBabyHasPaws wrote: *


> Ohhhhh they are sooooo cute! Those babies look 3 or 4weeks.



Thanks! 

3-4 weeks? Ooops...(I am trying to guess when she had them)

I also posted a video that probably helps to tell better about their age.When I got them out of the tunnel, one of them was very active and bravely exploring everything (while three others were cuddling together). Please watch and tell what you think (everybody welcome of course). When I discovered them (3 days ago) they could walk fast, stand on hind legs and the brave one even escaped from the nest box

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OanN1PbTsg&feature=youtu.be


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## Thumperina (Aug 12, 2012)

By the way, we had to take the mom to the doctor on July 16th, as we noticed in July 15th that she was hoping in a strange manner (she avoided to step on one of her hind legs) Could it be related to delivery? If we suppose that she had them on July 15th, then bunnies would be about 4 weeks old now. Sound true? 
Doc prescribed metacam orally so she was taking it while nursing the babies (or preparing to deliver). Is it OK I wonder?

Also, I found their hole in a clean condition - nothing except the babies. Could it be that she got more than 4? If some died, where could they be?


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## Thumperina (Aug 13, 2012)

Any thoughts regarding the video and the age? Anyone? 

I am afraid me doe can be pregnant again (we neutered the buck but she could get pregnant before that, expecially if she had bunnies 4 weeks ago). She gets tired easily (needs a lot of rest) and is always hungry. What is interesting, she is very picky and hardly eats what I give (not interested in Sherwood forest, but prefers some junk I was using earlier)


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