# Help- Weed Killer ingestion



## LilyPatchFarm (Apr 14, 2013)

I have a big patch of chickweed that grows next to my rabbit barn and every now and then I go over to the patch and strip big handfuls of it and give it to the rabbits. They always love it and eat every bit I put in their cages. I did the same thing today, took big armfuls of chickweed and passed it out among the rabbits.

I just found out that 24 hours prior to me picking it, the chickweed had been accidently sprayed with weed killer (Killzall) by a farm hand. they are NOT supposed to spray weed killer anywhere near the animals or the barns. The only place its supposed to be used is the gravel driveyways and a few select places well out of reach of any of the animals. I dont know how the hell it happened but I guess the guy decided the chickweed patch needed to be sprayed down and soaked it.

Seven rabbits ate the chickweed. Four young rabbits (under 7 months) and three adult rabbits. Four Elops, and three mini rexes. They ate a fairly large portion (I would say a large double handful). At this time (12 hours after I fed it to them) no one is acting any different other then I noticed one of my Elop does doesnt seem to be drinking as much water as normal (she normally goes through two bottles in a 24 hour period where as so far she has gone through half a bottle), and she may be a little bit quieter then she normally is, but I gave her some hay and pellets and she started eating without question. She is walking normally, her eyes look normal, she has normal stools and her breathing is normal.

I called my rabbit vet who said to get as much water into them as possible and keep a close eye on them and if anyone starts acting weird to bring them in immediatly. I called the company who says that as long as the product is DRY on the grass the toxicity is greatly reduced, but could not tell me whether what I fed them is actively toxic. I cant seem to find any information on the internet that agrees with any other information. My vet suggested calling animal poison control and thats my next step but I wanted to see if anyone here had any experience or knowledge of weed killer poisoning. Any information or advice would be greatly appreciated as I am freaking out beyond belief.

Thanks..


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## Imbrium (Apr 14, 2013)

first off, screw the animal poison control hotline, they charge you **$60** just to talk to them! I would definitely try the National Poison Control Center (1-800-222-1222), which I don't think charges, before considering coughing up for the animal one... though unfortunately I don't think they're open on the weekends (or at least not at this hour on a Sunday) ><

bunnies have a pretty quick metabolism... I was told with gliders when I suspected that Hurricane might've gotten into something during an escape because she started dry-heaving (which she hadn't... turns out I failed at knowing what makes eggplant "questionable" ) that if they're not showing any symptoms within 24h, you're pretty much in the clear - I can't say for sure, but I would guess that bunnies are similar, given how quickly they move large volumes of hay through their digestive system.

if you're worried about water intake, you could try spiking the water with a *small* amount of apple or pineapple juice, syringing water and or offering pedialyte (preferably unflavored as the flavored stuff has artificial sweeteners in it). I would also push hay and veggies over pellets, as they're less concentrated and it seems like a larger volume of food going in would help dilute whatever might still be in their digestive system (plus, pellets are a bit dehydrating).

unfortunately, one of the bigger signs of poisoning is one that you'll never see with rabbits because they're physically incapable of vomiting... however, that's not the only symptom. some common symptoms are: 


Muscle tremors or seizures
Vomiting and or diarrhea, sometimes with blood
Excessive salivation - drooling or foaming
Redness of skin, ears, eyes
Mental depression or excitement (may be easily excitable
Bleeding (as with rat poison ingestion
Ulceration or blisters of the mouth or skin
Excessive pawing at the mouth, excessive licking
Swelling (i.e. of a limb or face, commonly seen with insect bites and stings
Elevated or depressed body temperature (elevations usually due to increased muscle activity -- tremors, seizures
apparently if you happen to have an iphone, you can download a pet poison helpline app for $1-2 - http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/giftideasforpets/fr/Pet-Poison-Helpline-Iphone-App.htm

actually... the ASPCA # for pet poison control are the b*stards who want $60 just to talk to you (I can take 2 bunnies, 2 gliders and 14 hamsters to my vet for a check-up for less than they want for one freaking phone consult - massive rip-off!)... but I just found another number for a different 24/7 pet poisoning hotline. I haven't been able to confirm that it's free (or at least reasonable), but if you want to give it a try, the # is 800-213-6680.

edit: bah, it's $39... still $21 less than the ASPCA jerks, though!

I'll keep poking around and see what else I can come up with for you


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## Imbrium (Apr 14, 2013)

ok, KillzAll says the active ingredient is Glyphosate (41%)... here's what wikipedia had to say about it:



> *Glyphosate toxicity*
> 
> Glyphosate has a United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Toxicity Class of III (on a I to IV scale, where IV is least dangerous) for oral and inhalation exposure.[46] Nonetheless, as with other herbicides, the EPA requires that products containing glyphosate carry a label that warns against oral intake, mandates the use of protective clothing, and instructs users not to re-enter treated fields for at least 4 hours.[46][47] Glyphosate does not bioaccumulate and breaks down rapidly in the environment.[48]
> *
> ...





> Other mammals A review of the ecotoxicological data on Roundup shows there are at least 58 studies of the effects of Roundup itself on a range of organisms.[49] This review concluded that "for terrestrial uses of Roundup minimal acute and chronic risk was predicted for potentially exposed non-target organisms".
> In a 2001, three groups of pregnant rats were fed, respectively, a regular diet with clean water, a regular diet with 0.2 ml glyphosate/ml drinking water; and a regular diet with 0.4 ml glyphosate/ml drinking water. Glyphosate induces a variety of functional abnormalities in fetuses and pregnant rats.[70] Also in recent mammalian research, glyphosate has been found to interfere with an enzyme involved testosterone production in mouse cell culture.[63]
> The acute oral toxicity of Roundup is > 5,000 mg/kg in the rat.[71] It showed no toxic effects when fed to animals for two years, and only produced rare cases of reproductive effects when fed in extremely large doses to rodents and dogs. An increase in cancer rates in animal studies has not been demonstrated, and it is poorly absorbed in the digestive tract. Glyphosate has no significant potential to accumulate in animal tissue.[21]
> The EPA,[72] the EC Health and Consumer Protection Directorate, and the UN World Health Organization have all concluded pure glyphosate is not carcinogenic. Opponents of glyphosate claim Roundup has been found to cause genetic damage, citing Peluso _et al_.[73] The authors concluded the damage was "not related to the active ingredient, but to another component of the herbicide mixture".
> ...



from KillzAll's own product description:


> *Pet safe: *Yes, when used as directed. Allow treatments area to dry completely before allowing children or pets to enter the area.



based on that and various other bits of information I've come across, it looks like the risk of anything particularly bad befalling your rabbits is quite low, particularly if the pesticide was sprayed 24h earlier/was totally dry and they're still asymptomatic after 12+ hours. I would stick with the advice of your vet to keep them drinking water and additionally, would encourage a lot of hay and veggie eating (especially since veggies have lots of water in them) and would keep a close eye on the rabbits for any symptoms... but chances are, they're going to be just fine! (which is more than I can say for the farm hand who sprayed in the wrong spot, lol)


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## LilyPatchFarm (Apr 14, 2013)

Jennifer thank you SO much for compiling that. I have been sitting here reading tons and tons of pages and I was so confused. I had read the last article you posted about Glyphosat poisoning and was actually sitting here trying to calculate the dosage. from what I worked out for a 12 pound rabbit the toxic dose is about 2ccs of liquid Killzall. (.17 ccs per KG weight, 1 kg= 2.2 lbs... 12 lbs = 5.5 kg = .9cc. Since Killzall is 60% diluted that should = about 2ccs per 12 lbs weight) Since the grass was dry (other then dew) and had been treated 24 hours prior, I dont think they ingested too much. Everyone is asymptomatic and I got Clover, the doe that wasnt drinking much, to drink by spiking her water with a little bit of apple juice. I also gave them a little bit of watermelon.


I called the animal poison hotline right after I posted my first post and got to the $60 charge to talk to a vet and decided I would wait it out a little bit longer. Im not adverse to spending money to help my animals, not in any way, but $60 just to talk to someone for 5 minutes seems pretty extreme!!


I really hope they are going to be ok  

And on a side note, yes, that hand is no longer employed here. He was very appologetic but im not risking that happening again. Not to mention if he had sprayed chemicals on the oposite side of the property where we grow vegetables and have our free range hens we'd at the very least have lost our organic standing. (we sell the eggs and veggies as organic)


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## Imbrium (Apr 14, 2013)

heatwave said:


> I called the animal poison hotline right after I posted my first post and got to the $60 charge to talk to a vet and decided I would wait it out a little bit longer. Im not adverse to spending money to help my animals, not in any way, but $60 just to talk to someone for 5 minutes seems pretty extreme!!



I had other words for that, which would've required me to self-censor or run afoul of the profanity filter. seriously, I can bring an *unlimited* number of animals into my vet for a single $58 exam fee, and these jerk-offs want $60 to spend two minutes on the phone telling me something I can almost certainly find out through google and/or a call to an emergency vet for free? f-that. if it's serious enough to pay $60, then it's serious enough to go to the emergency vet instead of paying that ridiculous fee. if it was $10, sure, I'd pay that... but not $60. sounds a hell of a lot more like they're trying to "help" their wallets than they are to help pets.

anyway, glad I could help - it's SO much easier to think things through rationally and calmly and methodically dig around for information when you're not the one panicking about "omg, my babies might be poisoned!!". when Hurricane was dry-heaving, someone else on the glider forums did the same for me because I was too busy freaking out to approach things from a logical and objective point of view


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## LilyPatchFarm (Apr 15, 2013)

Good news so far- everyone is peachy keen this morning and everyone drank their bottles almost dry overnight. They are all acting normally with no symptoms so far. Still praying- but since it's been24 hours I'm hopeful!


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## KeltonB (Apr 15, 2013)

Great news! Hope they are all a-okay!


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## tonyshuman (Apr 15, 2013)

I have talked to the ASPCA poison hotline and they are very good. They have information compiled that's not publicly available, and may have cases in their files where similar things happened. It was definitely worth the money in my case. That said, keep a close eye on them and watch especially for changes in activity level or abnormal behavior.


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## missyscove (Apr 15, 2013)

Agreed, the ASPCA poison control hotline is excellent (and is recommended by my vet school's board certified toxicologist as well). The fee is per case so the way it works is you call and give a credit card number and establish the case and then your vet can continue to call, referencing your case number, and discuss the case with them as ir progresses. Calling human poison control can be helpful as well and they'll generally tell vets what they would do if it was a child, but they don't actually know anything about animals.


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