# Looking for Help Finding a Cage



## Canoe2Can (Nov 25, 2013)

We got a rabbit for our son a few months ago (not our first either). But unlike our previous rabbits, this one (a male) does not like to use the litter pan. He sprays in every corner of the cage. I had heard that getting him fixed would help, but the price we were quoted was far too high for something that might not work. I've tried putting urine guards in his cage, but they don't work. It's a Midwest Wabbitat, and the pee gets through the gap between the wire floor and the bottom pan. So now I'm trying to find a cage with a built-in urine guard. But I can't find anything like that. I want one with a wire floor so he doesn't fling litter all around, but also one with a deep pan to keep pee in. I also want one that I can continue to use a corner litter pan with. I've looked at this one from Hagen:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005AYYDCM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

It looks okay, except for not having a wire floor. Any suggestions would be appreciated.


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## britknee247365 (Nov 25, 2013)

Getting him spayed may help, he may be marking his territory because of the other rabbit. try putting multiple litter boxes in the corners that he sprays until he gets used to them and you can downsize. also would NOT recommend wire bottomed cages, bunnies feet are soft bottom, unlike a dog, and are very sensitive and can cost you more money in the long run from injuries and sore halks...


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## Canoe2Can (Nov 25, 2013)

No, he's the only rabbit we have now. We've had them previously is what I meant. 

What about this cage? Anyone have experience?
http://www.rabbitcagesource.com/rab...yplasticsmallanimalcagewithpulloutdrawers.cfm


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## PaGal (Nov 25, 2013)

How old is the bun? He may be in the teenage stage and could possibly calm down as he gets a little older and stop spraying. Also he may be marking his territory as it is new to him and may stop spraying once he feels at home. All buns are different though.


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## Canoe2Can (Nov 26, 2013)

He's about 8 months old, and we've had him for about 5 months, so he's not brand new to his environment.


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## RabbitGirl101 (Nov 26, 2013)

britknee247365 said:


> Getting him spayed may help, he may be marking his territory because of the other rabbit. try putting multiple litter boxes in the corners that he sprays until he gets used to them and you can downsize. also would NOT recommend wire bottomed cages, bunnies feet are soft bottom, unlike a dog, and are very sensitive and can cost you more money in the long run from injuries and sore halks...



I actually do recommend wire floors, they are the most sanitary option for rabbits. I have over 20 rabbits all housed on wire flooring and in my 6+ years of raising rabbits I have never had sore hocks. Just make sure to get a resting mat.
Here is a good article on wire floors: http://shinysatins.weebly.com/wire-floors.html
Some quotes from article 


> Litter or solid floors can become dirty very quickly. The first time the rabbit urinates or defecates, they are now in an environment in which they are coming into contact with soiled bedding or may sit in a puddle of urine. This can make them more susceptible to problems like parasites, urine scald or sore hocks. In a solid-bottomed cage they can also kick bedding out onto the floor, get it stuck in their fur, or eat it (most substrates are not good for their tummies).





> First, some people use improperly-sized wire for cage floors, and this likely WILL damage the rabbits' feet. Hardware cloth, sometimes called "cheese wire", is too fine a gauge for the bottom of a rabbit cage and may cut up a rabbit's feet. Any wire with rough edges or sharp spots, or excessively rusty wire should not be used for the bottom of a rabbit cage.
> 
> We feel that the best wire for a rabbit cage floor is 14-gauge double-galvanized wire with 1/2" x 1" holes, although 16-gauge galvanized wire with 1/2" x 1" holes may be acceptable for smaller breeds, too. If you use 16-gauge wire with a medium to large breed, we do recommend a resting mat of some sort.





> A rabbit with good bone structure and thick fur pads on its feet is not likely to develop sore hocks in a clean cage with a proper wire floor.


I would like to add that any rabbit can develop sore hocks this is a quote from another article


> Improper flooring - Rabbits need soft, preferably malleable flooring that will mimic the natural texture of the earth as much as possible. Wire flooring that doesn't have sufficient support underneath is not appropriate, as it can cause the foot to bow unnaturally. (Wire flooring with proper support is all right as long as you have a clean litterbox and soft bedding on top of it.) Wood, tile, or linoleum flooring can also be problematic, as it doesn't allow the foot to bend the way it does when it's pushing off against earth or grass. Cages with slick plastic bottoms are especially bad for a bunny's feet and joints. Lack of traction can cause painful problems in the pelvic and pectoral joints, leading to arthritis, and even "splayleg."
> An indoor rabbit needs soft cotton mats with rubber backing to provide enough traction for healthy locomotion.
> Obesity - A rabbit with too much weight on her body will often not be able to stand correctly, and may put unnatural pressure on points of her feet that are not meant to support much weight. This can cause sores.
> Arthritis or other skeletal problems - Pain from arthritis in the pelvis or spine--or skeletal pain for any other reason--can cause a rabbit to posture in an unnatural way, resulting in pressure on delicate points of the feet.
> Insufficient fur padding on the feet - Any cause of fur loss on the soles of the feet (e.g., mange, friction from improper flooring, contact allergies etc.) will deprive the rabbit of the natural padding she needs to protect her feet. Rabbits have little or no fat padding on the bottoms of their feet; they rely almost exclusively on a thick pad of wool to protect them from impact and friction. (NOTE: Some rabbit breeds, particularly Rex rabbits, have very fine fur that doesn't hold up well to friction. These breeds seem particularly prone to sore hock problems.)


http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/sorehocks.html

I recommend going to bunnyrabbit.com and looking at their cages. There are multiple different sizes available and I believe they may do custom orders. I have some from them and I love them! They do have proper gauge of wire and they work well for rabbits


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## Canoe2Can (Nov 26, 2013)

(Almost) Every time I've looked at a cage online with a wire floor, someone has posted a review saying, "Don't get it! It's bad for your rabbit." But anyone I've ever talked to with good rabbit-keeping credentials, such as the breeder I bought from, has said rabbits should have a wire floor because sanitation is more a worry than sore feet. But all rabbits should have a place to get off the wire. So if someone tells me not to get a cage with a wire floor, I just ignore it. 

Thanks for the thoughts.


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## maidance (Nov 27, 2013)

Personally, from what I've heard, some rabbits do fine on wire floors with a place away from the wire to rest. However, Rex bunnies should never be on wire floors because their fur doesn't protect their feet and they don't have thick pads. If you CAN get a cage without a wire floor, that would be great. If not, be sure your rabbit is happy


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## zombiesue (Nov 28, 2013)

I don't think there are too many neutered rabbits who still spray. I'd say it's definitely worth it if he's just a pet. 

That said, if you decide to just get a different cage, I think you could probably do better for the money than the ones you linked... Keep in mind that most likely his cage won't be big enough and he'll need some exercise every day outside of it, so if he sprays all over your house, too, you might need to invest in a way for him to get exercise outside or something, like an xpen.

Honestly, I'd hunt craigslist LOL. Keep in mind that some cages/hutches get so nasty they're completely junk, but every great once in a while you can find something worthwhile. There's always someone getting rid of rabbits.


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## RabbitGirl101 (Nov 29, 2013)

zombiesue said:


> I don't think there are too many neutered rabbits who still spray. I'd say it's definitely worth it if he's just a pet.
> 
> That said, if you decide to just get a different cage, I think you could probably do better for the money than the ones you linked... Keep in mind that most likely his cage won't be big enough and he'll need some exercise every day outside of it, so if he sprays all over your house, too, you might need to invest in a way for him to get exercise outside or something, like an xpen.
> 
> Honestly, I'd hunt craigslist LOL. Keep in mind that some cages/hutches get so nasty they're completely junk, but every great once in a while you can find something worthwhile. There's always someone getting rid of rabbits.



Craigslist is a good idea Because of recent events and my busy schedule my rabbits only get out of their cage once every 1-2 weeks, depending on your rabbit they can live comfortably in a cage


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## zombiesue (Nov 29, 2013)

Yeah, my one rabbit doesnt get out very much, about once a week, but my other two go crazy and keep me up at night lol. I think it has to do with their ages but it could just be their personalities too.


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## Blue eyes (Nov 30, 2013)

I'll be the dissenting voice here and suggest that none of those cages are anywhere near large enough -- especially if he's not getting out every day. IMHO, those cages can't hold a large enough litter pan to encourage litter training. 

I also don't recall ever hearing a neutered rabbit that wouldn't litter train. Perhaps you can call around to find some other vet options. A local rabbit rescue may have suggestions, or there may be some low-cost clinics. Or, perhaps a payment plan or some arrangement could be worked out to neuter him.

Perhaps a large exercise pen could be used for a cage. The pen walls could be lined with plexi-glass or coroplast to contain the spray. The flooring could be a heavy duty tarp with fleece on top. (Fleece wicks) It might take some creativity, but there should be ways to provide a larger cage that could house a sizable litter box (mine is 18" x 24"). This could encourage better litter habits. I would also suggest the wood pellets instead of loose bedding for inside the litter box. They tend to not scatter so easily. I'd top the pellets with hay too to encourage going in there. 

If your current cage set up has loose bedding over the whole floor cage, that can keep a bunny from litter training too. It's too confusing for them to know where to go.

So I'd suggest neutering, using an exercise pen with a large litterbox set up with pellets and hay, solid flooring elsewhere so bunny will have a better chance of understanding where to go potty, and then he'll also have more room to move around all day.


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## Blue eyes (Nov 30, 2013)

Canoe2Can said:


> (Almost) Every time I've looked at a cage online with a wire floor, someone has posted a review saying, "Don't get it! It's bad for your rabbit." But anyone I've ever talked to with good rabbit-keeping credentials, such as the breeder I bought from, has said rabbits should have a wire floor because sanitation is more a worry than sore feet. But all rabbits should have a place to get off the wire. So if someone tells me not to get a cage with a wire floor, I just ignore it.
> 
> Thanks for the thoughts.



Not to open a can of worms here, but those advocating wire floors are usually breeders and those keeping multiple rabbits. Wire floors are convenient for the rabbit caregiver of multiple rabbits. I understand why they would want to use wire flooring when having to care for so many rabbits at once-- especially if they aren't litter trained.
Rabbit rescues, on the other hand, seldom advocate wire flooring. They are looking at the rabbits more from an individual pet point of view. For the average pet bunny owner who has 1 or 2 rabbits, there is no need to have a rabbit on wire flooring. I've used a litterbox and solid flooring cages for over 20 years with my rabbits. My rabbits have ALWAYS been clean and never needing to be cleaned. Even my white rabbits have had perfectly white paws and feet. So I just don't buy the myth that solid floor caging is not sanitary -- especially with litter trained rabbits. 
Wire flooring may be convenient for breeders, but that doesn't mean that it's the best option for the pet house rabbit. That may be the reason why you see house rabbit owners discourage wire flooring.


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## PolishRabbitmama (Nov 30, 2013)

Depending on the size of the rabbit, A large dog cage/crate is an option. My bun actually lives quite happily in our extra large dog cage. We have a corner litter box and dump it every other day. Yes there are some poop balls on the floor but it's easy enough to clean. Also it's tall enough if my bun did spray just some vinegar and water would clean it right up. If I had a choice I would say I wouldn't want wire floors. That is just a personal choice for me.I just have one bun and he likes his house.


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## RabbitGirl101 (Dec 1, 2013)

Blue eyes said:


> Not to open a can of worms here, but those advocating wire floors are usually breeders and those keeping multiple rabbits. Wire floors are convenient for the rabbit caregiver of multiple rabbits. I understand why they would want to use wire flooring when having to care for so many rabbits at once-- especially if they aren't litter trained.
> Rabbit rescues, on the other hand, seldom advocate wire flooring. They are looking at the rabbits more from an individual pet point of view. For the average pet bunny owner who has 1 or 2 rabbits, there is no need to have a rabbit on wire flooring. I've used a litterbox and solid flooring cages for over 20 years with my rabbits. My rabbits have ALWAYS been clean and never needing to be cleaned. Even my white rabbits have had perfectly white paws and feet. So I just don't buy the myth that solid floor caging is not sanitary -- especially with litter trained rabbits.
> Wire flooring may be convenient for breeders, but that doesn't mean that it's the best option for the pet house rabbit. That may be the reason why you see house rabbit owners discourage wire flooring.


I guess that is your personal opinion then. The cage the OP has posted a link to is plenty big enough and is within the standard. My rabbits live in a smaller cage and I see them binky daily. I disagree with this statement that it is only breeders who use wire floors. I use to be a house rabbit owner before I transferred to breeding rabbits and after having been an experienced owner using both type of flooring I still recommend wire flooring to pet owners. I myself absolutely love the wire flooring! My rabbits are litter trained, but I hate the idea that my rabbits may pee/poop outside the box and then they are sitting in their waste all day or the fact that you get a lot of soiled hay sitting in the cage with solid floor floorings. 
Although all of your opinions are valid and I'm not arguing that they work well for you, but the OP has already stated she would like the wire floors and she does NOT want a solid flooring.
Wire floors are not common with House rabbits but I have found that many pet owners (that are not with the HRS) do prefer them, and although they have their rabbit roaming the house they still have a wire cage I was actually told by my vet to get my wire cages, he said that it was the best option for the rabbits. No it was not only because I was breeder, I had asked his honest opinion on what he thought would be ok for my rabbits (which are basically my kids XD haha)
Studies have been done that have had rabbits in one cage with two different types of the flooring (solid and wire) and it was proven that about 70-80% of the time the rabbits chose to go on the wire even with the option of having the solid flooring. My original rabbit, Tigger, never use to binky as a house rabbit(which actually suprises me) He hated the solid floors, he is a very neat rabbit and he hates when anything is out of order in his cage, when I switched him to wire he began binkying and he now binkys all the time. 

I can comfortably say that the size and flooring of a cage does not affect the happiness of the rabbit. All my rabbits are healthy and happy in their cages  
Just thought I should address this. ( I am not here to argue but I just wanted to make sure my opinion was in here)

Also I probably should add that I've been raising rabbits for 6+ years but I had my first foster rabbit when I was really little so I have been volunteering and fostering for 13+ years.


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## Blue eyes (Dec 1, 2013)

RabbitGirl101 said:


> Yes, I'm aware of your opinion on wire flooring from your numerous posts on numerous threads whenever the subject pops up. I only posted on this thread so that a contrary opinion could be voiced in this context.
> 
> I would be curious to see any such studies of which you speak and what control factors were used. I am not one to take a vet's opinion at face value. Often enough they only know what they've been told.
> 
> ...


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## RabbitGirl101 (Dec 1, 2013)

Blue eyes said:


> Yes, I'm aware of your opinion on wire flooring from your numerous posts on numerous threads whenever the subject pops up. I only posted on this thread so that a contrary opinion could be voiced in this context.
> 
> I would be curious to see any such studies of which you speak and what control factors were used. I am not one to take a vet's opinion at face value. Often enough they only know what they've been told.
> 
> ...


The links I posted in the first post I made has a link to that website with the studies and many other factors. 
I am not trying to be rude, but not everyone can have a condo for their rabbit and to be quite honest not everyone likes the idea of having a free range rabbit. I'm glad your setup works for you, but I am also just letting people know my past experience working with solid floors and past experiences that I personally did not like. My rabbits for the most part dont pee outside the litterbox but they do poop where ever they please. 

In addition, any soiled hay is contained in their litter box. It is not scattered on the solid flooring. As I said earlier, my rabbits have a clean environment and numerous floorings from which to choose, both in their cage and out
Yes I do understand that, but please remember not all rabbits have free range. Like stated before this may work for you but the majority of pets owners I know say they are looking to invest in wire floorings even with a free range rabbit. Sorry to counter your opinion but I guess we will have to agree to disagree. There are hundreds of ways to raise a rabbit in a healthy and happy environment, you just have to choose what works best for you.


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## zombiesue (Dec 1, 2013)

To toss something else in there, I think that rabbits can have preferences too lol. 

I adopted a rabbit out of a filthy gross home once. He was nasty, and he was raised on a wirefloor. He didn't have sore hocks, just was matted and nasty (problems you'd expect from a rabbit who's cage wasn't clean regardless of flooring.) He probably spent his whole life in there.

Anyway, I couldn't littertrain him really after that. Cage = poop place for him, wherever he was in the cage. I didn't have enough space or know-how to create a different cage for him, but if I could have put him back on wire flooring I would have, even though I like rabbit condos myself. I just think that that was him and that was what he was used to and that was what he liked. I never got him to use the litterbox exclusively. 

I ended up lining his cage with newspaper and changing it every day, but wire flooring would have been a lot easier on both of us. And why not? He lived on it for 9 years and it never caused him any problems and I really think he liked it.

But my other rabbits live in condos and I like condos better. But sometimes rabbits don't care what their owners want or like lol.


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## Blue eyes (Dec 1, 2013)

RabbitGirl101 said:


> The links I posted in the first post I made has a link to that website with the studies and many other factors.



I took a look at the link you gave with the research. You stated regarding these links that "Studies have been done that have had rabbits in one cage with two different types of the flooring (solid and wire) and it was proven that about 70-80% of the time the rabbits chose to go on the wire even with the option of having the solid flooring." But that is not at all what those studies showed. 

Those studies compared, in one case, whether rabbits preferred wire-flooring over straw-covered flooring. I don't know any indoor rabbits that are housed on straw. Straw is slippery and gets nasty quick. It is not comparable to solid flooring. So that study doesn't even apply.

Another supposed study compared wire-flooring to "deep litter." Again this is not solid flooring but deep litter. It doesn't apply. 

All the other numerous studies were comparing the growth rates of young rabbits for slaughter. They compared different rearing systems for fattening rabbits for 'meat quality.' The focus was what produced the fattest rabbits the quickest for meat production.

So your statement was rather misleading. 

If you like to keep your rabbits on wire flooring, that is fine by me. But let's not mislead others. There is nothing wrong or harmful with housing rabbits on solid flooring. 

We apparently walk in different circles. I know no one who wants or advocates wire flooring. All the rabbit owners I know (and have known) avoid wire flooring. 

Yes, we can agree to disagree. But just as you are, I'm sure, tired of people saying that wire floors always result in sorehocks (something I did not say, btw), it would be equally wrong to say that rabbits prefer wire flooring or to say that rabbits on solid flooring are unsanitary.


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## RabbitGirl101 (Dec 3, 2013)

Blue eyes said:


> I took a look at the link you gave with the research. You stated regarding these links that "Studies have been done that have had rabbits in one cage with two different types of the flooring (solid and wire) and it was proven that about 70-80% of the time the rabbits chose to go on the wire even with the option of having the solid flooring." But that is not at all what those studies showed.
> 
> Those studies compared, in one case, whether rabbits preferred wire-flooring over straw-covered flooring. I don't know any indoor rabbits that are housed on straw. Straw is slippery and gets nasty quick. It is not comparable to solid flooring. So that study doesn't even apply.
> 
> ...



I think you misuderstood the study then. I was not misleading and I am actually quite offended that you said that. I said solid floor compared to wire flooring. Is bedding not a solid floor? Does that not compare to the earth anymore? I know many people who have bedding as the solid/main floor in their cage. The author of the article chose to write about one of the rabbits tested on, sure they were meats rabbits but they are still rabbits, which have the same body structure and padding on their feet as your pets. I would ask that we can steer this conversation away from the mentioning of meat as I know some users will not appreciate the discussion of it. 

I am not pointing fingers and saying that my set up is oh so better than yours so there is no need to get defensive. I do understand where you are coming from, but I do not agree with that way to setup a cage. Personal experience and personal preference has a lot to do with how someone house's there rabbit. 

I would like to add that this OP has already stated that she does not want solid floors and that she wants a cage with wire flooring. So I have told her where I buy my cages and where to get a cage in the size she is looking for. I have given my opinion and I will stop commenting now, I do not want to start something with another well respected user. It was nice talking to you but I will back out of this conversation now.


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## RabbitGirl101 (Dec 3, 2013)

Blue eyes said:


> I took a look at the link you gave with the research. You stated regarding these links that "Studies have been done that have had rabbits in one cage with two different types of the flooring (solid and wire) and it was proven that about 70-80% of the time the rabbits chose to go on the wire even with the option of having the solid flooring." But that is not at all what those studies showed.
> 
> Those studies compared, in one case, whether rabbits preferred wire-flooring over straw-covered flooring. I don't know any indoor rabbits that are housed on straw. Straw is slippery and gets nasty quick. It is not comparable to solid flooring. So that study doesn't even apply.
> 
> ...



Misleading? I am actually quite offended you said that. Bedding and straw (which I do not personally agree with either, I used that before with my chickens and it is terrible) But the bedding is like a solid floor and can be considered a solid floor. The author of the website (not the person conducting the study, just someone merely wanting to talk about it) chose to talk about one of the rabbits in the study there was more than just one rabbit. I would prefer to not talk about the meat aspect of things as I know some users will get upset with that and for that reason we should avoid talking about it. However with that being said, being used for that should not affect the test in any way. The rabbits still chose the wire. 

I personally think that solid floors are not the best option for rabbits. Once again they may work well for you but I know to many horror stories about rabbits on solid floors. (yes you hear about wire floor horror stories too-and I am very ashamed that people chose to keep a rabbit untreated when help was needed)
This is a picture of someone I know, rabbits cage (which I got courtesy of Facebook - and result in a dreadfully long conversation about how unsanitary her cages are and how bad it is for her rabbits -the main argument she presented was that the rabbits were housed in a solid bottom and its good for them)










So yes I understand that not all solid floors are bad and they work for some owners but when I see things like this it makes me cry,(note: same goes for wire floors) I am sorry to have brought things up but I just wanted to show you why I am so against the solid floors. I don't mind seeing them when you can actually see the floor. 


Haha thats true, we do have different groupings of people we talk too, it is nice to talk to different people once in a while haha one of my best friends is from Germany and her rabbits have her entire backyard and her house to run around. Her entire set up is awesome (and safe) its just wicked awesome!


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## Blue eyes (Dec 3, 2013)

Solid floor means solid floor to me. It does not mean a floor covered with straw and it does not mean a floor covered with "deep litter." Of course no rabbit would want to go on those. The pictures you showed are perfect examples of what the studies showed. Any rabbit would choose wire flooring over those nasty photos. (Those are what the study was comparing. -- wire floor to those 2 options). If that is what you picture in your mind when you say 'solid flooring' then no wonder you are opposed. (I am too!)

But those of us (many on this forum) who house indoors have a totally and completely different idea of what solid flooring is. They are picturing indoor NIC cages or puppy pens or crates with a visible solid floor, with a litter box and perhaps fleece. So when you said that studies show that rabbits prefer wire over 'solid flooring', I found that quite misleading. The studies have nothing to do with these types of 'solid flooring' - just those nasty outdoor examples. I didn't mean to offend, but indoor rabbit keepers would never consider the above 2 alternatives (straw/deep litter) to be "solid flooring." 

In my rabbit world, the indoor set-ups seen on this site are what I picture in my mind when I hear "solid floor." I can't even imagine a rabbit choosing wire over _these_ types of floorings. The indoor set-ups I see on this forum are mostly all great. These are the solid floors that most picture (unless, apparently, they are in your circle of outdoor keepers with photos you showed). 

The solid flooring cages that many on this forum picture are seen on this thread:
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f69/2013-cages-youve-made-73877/

For contrast, these are what I picture as "solid floor."


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## Watermelons (Dec 3, 2013)

Enough has been said on this topic. 
The OP seems to have 1 thought in their mind about what they want.
Arguments to change that opinion have been made. Enough is enough.
Topic CLOSED.


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