# why do my bunnies all hate each other?



## SnowyShiloh (Nov 16, 2008)

I'm so sad. Phoebe Mae, Rory and Skyler all hate each other  Rory wants to rip Skyler and Phoebe Mae's heads off (Sky has a prominent scar on his lip from where Rory got him), but I was so hopeful Skyler and Phoebe Mae would hit it off. I introduced them when Phoebs was 8 weeks old and Skyler was so sweet and gentle with her even though she was on his turf.

The other day I had them both on my bed (in a room neither bunny has ever been in, so it was neutral territory), and things did not go well. First I had Phoebe Mae in the carrier and Skyler out for a few minutes, then let her out. They sniffed each other for a few seconds, then Skyler (who was neutered in May) sort of lunged at her a couple times but didn't bite. Then he mounted her. This is where it got bad. Phoebe Mae (who is 14 weeks old) didn't like that one bit and threw him off of her, they started fighting terribly and even though I had them separated within a couple seconds, poor Skyler fell off the bed and there were sizable clumps of Skyler fur laying around. Clumps of fur that were actually held together with a bit of skin! Skyler let me pick him up right away, but Phoebe Mae was all wound up and charged me when I tried to pet her so I let her be for a minute. I felt them both over and didn't find any wounds or blood, but last night I found a small scabbed over wound on Sky's chin 

I have to secretly admit that I'm a teeny bit proud of Phoebe for not letting Skyler push her around, and she most definitely was the winner of the fight (evidence by the clumps of black fur and the fact that she actually threw him off the bed) even though she's still pretty young and is a fair amount smaller.

Back on topic, what do you think the chances are that Phoebe Mae and Skyler will bond later? I was really hoping they'd like each other. Should I try to keep introducing them in person, or maybe have them in cages right next to each other so they can get used to one another? Or should I just hold off completely on the intros until after Phoebe Mae is spayed? My vet doesn't like to spay until 6 months of age so we still have 2 1/2 months to go.


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## Flashy (Nov 16, 2008)

I would suggest waiting until a month after she is spayed, but you can do background work in the meantime, like cages next to each other, swapping the contents of the cages, swapping the cages, so they get used to being in the others buns territory, and also having the bun smell in theirs. 

When it comes to bonding I would suggest car journeys and also using the bath if you can. By letting Skylar out first he will then have seen Phoebe Mae as an invasion into his territory, even for those few seconds, so that might also have had an impact. Ideally they need to go down into neutral territory at the same time. Vanilla essence on the nose can also work well.

Remember that chasing, mounting, nipping, etc, are all normal, but obviously fighting is not.

It might also be they picked up on your anxieties about putting them together and acted accordingly, so always try to be completely calm.

I have 4 neutered singles in my room, and none of them will bond with anyone else, why? Because they all think I am their bonded friend, and so anyone else in an invasion, so my presence at bonding is actually counter productive. If I want these buns bonded I'm going to have to get someone to do it for me (we have bonders over here in the UK), is there anyone who could do it for you? Or at the very least help you? Do you think they feel attached to you and the other bun in an invasion into their pair?


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## JadeIcing (Nov 16, 2008)

I would really hold off until she is spayed before trying again. Keep in mind the spay will for the most part relax her. 

I have heard of bunnies who fought alot worse eventually bonding but that is still no guarantee.

I saw a number of bonding dates yesterday. When ever a bun didn't submit to some mounting we were alittle more cautious. To me that is showing Skylar wants to be dominate and Phoebe Mae wasn't willing to even try. 

This is what I saw when Elvis mounted her and when she mounted him. They just got flat to the ground.







I wouldn't say give up but with reactions like that I would try and hold off till she is spayed.

A big reason why we are doing it this way is that we want Elvis to choose. I have learned the hard way is that bonding is a coin toss but it helps if I let the bunnies choose for them self.


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## W5Skittles (Nov 16, 2008)

have you got a laminated or tiled area? if so you could try bonding on there as the floor is slippy so circling and fighting would be abit harder also ive used a squirty water bottle so whenever the buns have circled just give them both abit of a spray with that its sometimes works but sometimes doesnt.

you could place them next each other so they can see each other throght their cages or hutches they wont be able tohurt one another and may actually start bonding that way making it easier when you place them together. 

is your girl neutered at all? if not id maybe consider that as she will be over run with homones making her moodier so more chance of her lashing out abit like us girls with pmt we throw mood swings lol


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## SnowyShiloh (Nov 16, 2008)

Flashy, you know, I was wondering if maybe the bunnies were having trouble liking each other because they're bonded to me! I'd say that all 3 are very bonded to me, Skyler in particular (who follows me everywhere and is definitely a lap bunny). The one time Rory bit me was after he saw me petting Skyler. That bite left a scar and I never could have imagined him being so vicious. Rory "charged" me once too when he was out of the cage and saw me cuddling Tallulah.

Skyler is such a love bun that I think he would really benefit from having a bunny friend who could be with him all the time. I'll wait until after the spay (of course giving plenty of time to heal) before really introducing them, but I'll try the cage swapping and placing the cages near one another. I don't think a spray bottle would have much effect on them because they were fighting pretty intensely. The only place I can do intros in the apartment is our bedroom, the bunnies spend lots of time in all the other rooms so they think it's all their territory! Also, I was really calm when I introduced them, I thought things would go just fine so wasn't feeling nervous or anything.

I suppose after Phoebs is spayed I could try to bond her to Rory if it doesn't work with Skyler. He and Phoebe Mae have actually never gotten closer than a few inches to each other (with 2 barriers between them) because after Rory bit Skyler so badly, I don't want to subject her to possibly being hurt too! I didn't use the double barriers around Rory's cage with Tallulah and Rory eventually got used to her presence. She loved him so much and would lay next to his cage and stick her nose in and stuff. He bit her on the ear once and nipped her a couple times, but in the beginning mostly just charged around the cage growling and throwing things. By the time she died, he would ignore her or sometimes even sit near her or groom himself at the same time she did.

Sorry so long! I'm tired and I like to talk about my bunnies  Thanks for the input everyone, and anyone else who wants to chime in is welcome too!

Oh and here's a picture of Skyler where you can see his scar, it extends along the underside of his lip too. The vet said it healed well and it's normal for the fur on damaged tissue to grow back black! Poor guy, I feel guilty whenever I see his scar.


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## Flashy (Nov 16, 2008)

Rabbits seem to have a pretty long memory for how things ended last time, so if it ended badly, they will remember that, but if it ended well they will remember that instead, so that might mean that you struggle with Skylar and Phoebe, and maybe a fresh slate with Rory might be a potentially more successful idea, but it does sound like he will need it to go very slowly.

If you think Skylar needs a friend, and he won't bond with Phoebe could you maybe take him to a rescue for some bunny dates so he can find his own friend? Maybe a really submissive girlie might be what he needs.


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 18, 2008)

He doesn't look too miserable with that banana in his face.


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## SnowyShiloh (Nov 18, 2008)

Well, last night I decided to remove the barrier from around Rory's cage and let Phoebe out to play. I kept a close eye on her and was hoping she'd stay away from him and REALLY hoping she wouldn't be bitten... Good news is, no bites! Bad news is, she is one feisty girl and they definitely don't like each other. At first, she was just curiously approaching Rory in his cage, but after a couple minutes of him acting aggressively towards her, she started getting mad and was running around with her little tail so high in the air you could see her phantom turd (the little black spot at the base of the underside of her tail)! Rory was going crazy. Phoebs was returned to her cage and I'll be putting the barrier back up.

I can't help but wonder if Phoebe Mae is dominant towards other rabbits or if she just reacts to Skyler's and Rory's aggression and dominance. She was fine with Skyler until he tried to hump her, and she was fine with Rory until he kept being mean to her and made her mad.


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## Little Bay Poo (Nov 18, 2008)

I wouldn't give up on them. Not that I have any experience with the bonding thing, but if you are willing to put a lot of time and effort into the process, you never know what will happen. If I had more time I would have tried to bond Billy and Ronnie, but I had to give up on that idea because I was always too busy. 

Here's an old video where you can see what happens when only one barrier is between these guys (if you have the volume on you can hear Billy snorting at Ronnie ). Poor Ronnie desperately wants a bunny friend (or wants to hump a bunny friend) but Billy is aggressive toward him. I think Billy is similar to your Rory, in that they both have spoiled only-child syndrome and only desire human attention.






I saw a few videos of Skyler and he seems to be a nice little guy. If I'm remembering correctly there was a video of Skyler outside Phoebe Mae's cage when you first got Phoebe Mae and he looked like he did very well around her. I say this because Billy wanted to rip Ronnie's head off the very first day we brought Ronnie home...so there was never a chance there. 

There seems to be hope with your two, if you take it slowly and get everybun fixed first. I know there are some members on here who have great tips on how to go about bonding rabbits. I remember Flashy sent me a PM a while back when I was thinking about bonding my two and I even printed it out but never got around to trying it :?


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## JadeIcing (Nov 18, 2008)

She is not fixed so most of what you are seeing could just be straight hormones. I would just leave things as is till she is fixed.

Any reason you are trying now?


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## SnowyShiloh (Nov 18, 2008)

Alicia, I'm not trying to bond them now, I was just hoping I could do away with the barrier around Rory's cage. The living room is tiny and the barrier interferes with being able to open the front door! I didn't use have it with Tallulah, she just ran around doing her own thing and would go over to visit Rory or sit by his cage. I was hoping maybe Phoebe Mae would do like Tallulah did (Lulu was 7 months old when she died and she never tried to fight with Rory through the cage bars) so I could put the NIC barrier away and we'd have more space!

At what age do bunnies get hormonal? Phoebs is about 14 weeks old.


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## JadeIcing (Nov 18, 2008)

Hmm. Have you tried a sheet around the cage? Umm I used to have a barrier out of NIC. I would put it around just during out time. The rest of the time it was just folded up under the couch.

Umm no idea when hormones start but I started noticing a change in Connor about that age.


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## SnowyShiloh (Nov 19, 2008)

Aww, my poor little Skyler was bitten by Rory again  Sky was out of his cage and I had the NIC barrier around Rory's cage, but his door wasn't latched shut and he pushed it open. I saw right away and hurried over to shoo him back in his cage, but Skyler followed me or saw Rory and ran over, I tried to keep them apart but Rory bit Skyler on the face through the bars of the NIC barrier. He now has two small wounds (one from the top teeth and one from the bottom teeth) on the left side of his face, opposite his old scar from Rory  My poor guy can't catch a break, he's been the bunny punching bag all week! 

The wounds don't look too bad (they look better than the other bite did), but I feel guilty, it must have hurrrrt! I wonder if these wounds will scar with black hairs like his other one did.


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## Flashy (Nov 19, 2008)

Girls generally start at about 4-5 months, and boys about 3-4 months. That's a rough guide for the smaller breeds, but like with people you get those that develop earlier or later.

You'll need to make sure the wounds are bathed and it might be worth getting him on some anti bios because they can easily become infected. Poor you and Skyler, how very stressful


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## AlmondJoy (Jun 28, 2018)

I am having some bunny bonding issues as well. I have 2 bonded bunnies that are sister and brother but about 2 months ago we adopted another bunny (boy) and have kept them separate but alternate them in cages so they get used to each other scents. We have done this for about a month now. They have all been fixed probably 7-8 months ago.

We have tried putting all 3 recently in the bathtub but it quickly turned into a big fight. Girl bit new bun and in return he bit the other boy bun. We then decided to put the new bun and our bonded boy together in a small travel cage where they didnt have much room to move but they started nipping and pulling hair. They were only ok when my husband had his hands in there petting both of them. We then put our bonded girl and the new bun in the travel cage and my husband was petting both of them and they seemed pretty calm. 

I am nervous about bonding them any other way so maybe we will keep them in the travel cage for bonding time with my husband petting them so they get used to each others smells more? And then move onto stress bonding? Any suggestions?

Thanks!


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## Blue eyes (Jun 28, 2018)

AlmondJoy said:


> I am having some bunny bonding issues as well. I have 2 bonded bunnies that are sister and brother but about 2 months ago we adopted another bunny (boy) and have kept them separate but alternate them in cages so they get used to each other scents. We have done this for about a month now. They have all been fixed probably 7-8 months ago.
> 
> We have tried putting all 3 recently in the bathtub but it quickly turned into a big fight. Girl bit new bun and in return he bit the other boy bun. We then decided to put the new bun and our bonded boy together in a small travel cage where they didnt have much room to move but they started nipping and pulling hair. They were only ok when my husband had his hands in there petting both of them. We then put our bonded girl and the new bun in the travel cage and my husband was petting both of them and they seemed pretty calm.
> 
> ...



Hello, Almond, and welcome to the forum. Since you are new, you may not realize that you've posted on a thread that is 10 years old. It would be best to begin a new thread to get more viewing. Just go to the Nutrition & Behavior section again, but click on the bright green button (not dark green) that says "Post New Thread."


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