# French lop breeding



## grumpybabies (Nov 29, 2006)

Hey guys i've just joined today i've read loads of messages already and u all seem so friendly! i just need a little help with a possible pregnant french lop... it broke out of its hutch and i guess had fun with my dwarf lop but i was at work just found them sitting next to each other! i read somewhere that if u put them together after wards if the doe goes for the buck she is pregnant is this true and she did go for him or could it be a false pregnancy? she hasn't put on weight i think apart from under her chin but i heard this is a sign of pregnancy too is that right? by the way thefrench lopis the mum... i would be petrified if it was the other way around lol! also are frenchs hard to breed or bad parents or anythin i should know? thanks for any help u can give me!


----------



## Starlight Rabbitry (Nov 29, 2006)

The doe mating the buck is a sign of dominance. She is showing him that she is the dominant one. It is not a sign that she is pregnant. The extra skin under her chin is called a dewlap. It is common in French Lops. How long ago did this mating happen?

Gestation is 28-35 days with the average being 31 days. Is she outside or inside? Do you have a quiet place with a nestbox where she can have her babies if she is pregnant?

Sharon


----------



## grumpybabies (Nov 30, 2006)

sorry i wrote that wrong, they did mate properly, i presume she went to him because she broke out of her hutch to get to him first time, so would that mean she knew she had eggs ready? but now she is going for him is that a good sign of pregnancy? she is in ashed with a few other bunnies but her hutch is too big for me to bring in the house, i'm making a kind of hutch box for her that needs to be done soon doesn't it? a couple of days before? i'm worried that i'm excited for nothing, but i'm also trying to sort out new hutches for the babies as i'm keeping them all!


----------



## Starlight Rabbitry (Nov 30, 2006)

The nest box needs to be in at about the 25th day. As long as the temp. doesn't get to freezing, they should be fine. 

How many days has it been?

Sharon


----------



## grumpybabies (Nov 30, 2006)

26 days today so i will do it tom she is lying down a lot so i'm hoping thats a good sign that she is preg and there are lots of babies


----------



## Starlight Rabbitry (Dec 2, 2006)

At this age....you should be able to take her out and put her on somewhere flat. If you put your hands flat against the sides of her stomach, and GENTLY press, you should be able to feel them in her and also feel them kick. 

Sharon

Keep us updated.


----------



## grumpybabies (Dec 2, 2006)

lovely i'm going out to do that now then although she is grumpy so i doubt it will be with success lol thanks


----------



## grumpybabies (Dec 2, 2006)

well i don't think i can feel anything i hope i'm wrong though! she won't really stay still long enough! but its not long now if she is so i'll just have to be patient!


----------



## grumpybabies (Dec 3, 2006)

i know some of you will disagree with me but pls don't have a go at me, now i have had the excitement of waiting for babies, and is till may have them but i doubt it i can't feel any, i would like to breed just one litter for myself to keep for pets, i know both rabbits have a good history as i got them from a breeder not a pet shop, so what can i do to increase the chances of pregnancy? i have heard keep a light on as it is winter and its darker, but the female won't go near my buck so i guess there is a small chance she is pregnant still, but if she isn't will this get sorted out? any help you can give me will be great thanks


----------



## TinysMom (Dec 4, 2006)

First of all, you need to read this:

grumpybabies wrote: [/b]


> i know some of you will disagree with me
> and
> i would like to breed just one litter for myself to keep for pets,
> and
> any help you can give me will be great thanks


----------



## grumpybabies (Dec 4, 2006)

Thanks for all of that i really appreciate your help and no criticism it is very kind of you. To be honest at first a pregnancy may have happened as an accident through a door that my doe broke downas said at the top so although i knew some things about breeding because i've bought every book i have ever seen on rabbits to be honest but i didn't know enough by far!. so i came to you experts here for advice, and i phoned the breeder that i got my doe and buck from for advice too and i am on another 3 forums, and i immediately spoke to my vet so although i am never going to be as good as any of you on here, i do think i have planned as much as i can, i would never do it if i thought i couldn't give my doe the best care and if i couldn't afford the vets bills because boy i know how much they come too lol! i will try and get hold of that book you said as soon as i can, but i never know i may still have a litter from the accident its31 days tom but i can't feel anything, unless there's only one or two,and after i read that book i prob will go ahead because the joy of having babies must outweigh the costs! and if i get any problems i will make sure she gets the best care and advice from you guys if u don't mind?!!


----------



## TinysMom (Dec 4, 2006)

You have to understand something - at least about me. I'm not here to criticize others.

Accidents happen - and we're here to help those who've had accidents.

People want to breed and if you're determined to breed - we're here to help.

But I think the mods would agree that we want to make sure people know the possibilities before they breed a litter. If you are prepared to care for however many babies there are....and you understand it is along-term commitment, I understand your desire. I would just hate to have you say 6 months from now, "My doe's immune system started breaking down after she gave birth...why didn't ya'll warn me?"

Breeding can be wonderful - and heartbreaking. When I got up this morning - we'd lost four babies during the night. Two of them were teeny tiny ones I was writing about in the lionhead blog I'm doing. I bawled my eyes out. Two were from a doe that had refused a nest box over and over. She'd had three babies and one died yesterday (she'd over cleaned it and removed a leg by mistake..). I kept trying and trying to put them in a nest box for her...she'd keep tipping it over.She'd pulled a TON of hair so I let her keep them in her nest she'd made. Well...the two that were left got separated when she fed them..one was fed...one wasn't...and they both died due to lack of warmth. (And my rabbitry is in the sun room but it has been very cold here in TX lately). 

We also had a litter of five born...on the wire. Right now they're in with another litter that has fur so they can get warm...and then they'll go back in with mama in a nest box. She was a first time mama and she didn't want to use a nest box....she made her nest in the corner but didn't pull fur. I think these one will make it...at least four of them.

My point? Breeding isn't all fun and it isn't all about cute little babies. At times, it hurts and you lose a litter or a baby and you get discouraged. But ... knowing all that...I'd still breed.

As long as you breed responsibly - no criticism from me!

Peg


----------



## pinksalamander (Dec 4, 2006)

I totally understand that you wish to breed, but hang on... if you only want one litter to have a go.. and your expecting one, then why don't you just keep that as the litter you've always wanted. Seeing as it was an accident and cannot be taken back now you should just cherish this litter and then not breed agin.


----------



## grumpybabies (Dec 4, 2006)

i don't know if i am expecting one you see, if i am it will be in the next couple of days but if she doesn't have one i will be so disappointed so hence me wanting to breed just one litter,and i have lost a lot of animals recently so i know about loss, and vets bills! i know i will cry my eyes out with any loss, but i think i will lose all bunnies eventually so i may as well have the joy of them while they are here rather than miss out totally does that sound horrid?


----------



## pinksalamander (Dec 5, 2006)

No it doesn't. I see that you have got 6 babies, so is this the last time your going to breed or are you going to try again?

I'd love to breed but i don't think i can afford it. I may do later in my life, just once. But i would want to make sure i had the means to care for a baby.


----------



## grumpybabies (Dec 5, 2006)

no this is it, unless for whatever reason they all pass on but i doubt it very much, i know the still born rate is so high for first litters and as thathasn't happened i have a very good feeling about them! i am quite friendly withmy vet so i am going to ask him to do a bulk buy discount on having them all spayed lol! i know its going to be expensive but that can never takeaway from the feeling of seeing a pile of fur moving this morninglol


----------



## TinysMom (Dec 5, 2006)

You think seeing the pile of fur moving was something? 

Wait till the first kit opens their eyes...and then they venture out of the nest...and then they climb on mama...then they realize that you're ok too and the wait at the cage door for you to feed them.

Enjoy these next few weeks while you can....you'll make lots of memories..

Peg*

grumpybabies wrote: *


> but that can never take away from the feeling of seeing a pile of fur moving this morninglol


----------



## grumpybabies (Dec 5, 2006)

i know i just haven't got that far yet lol it was just so wonderful knowing i did have babies and all healthy more importantly! can't wait to see the colours, there are 3 or 4 selfs but i don't know if they are grey or black and a couple of mixed i'm like a kid in a sweet shop sorry!


----------



## Michaela (Dec 5, 2006)

We had a litter earlier this year (with my neighbour's buck, I'm sure most of you know I've said it many times!:rollseyes)

It is such a wonderful time, you're going to love it!:bunnydance:

But like Peg with GingerSpice, Berri has had health problems sinceI don't know if it was the babies that caused it or what, but she's definitely not as healthy as she used to be.

Although her life has improved so much, as she no longer lives alone,she now has her two daughters living with her, in a much bigger house,and she is no longer the angry bun she used to beAnd of course I love the girls.

So breeding has it's good and bad points. I love how this forum hardly ever criticises for accidental breeding, it can happen so easily, not many forums are like this one!:group:

Michaela and the girls:brownbunny:brownbunny:brownbunny


----------



## grumpybabies (Dec 6, 2006)

yes i remember reading about the neighbour's buck! at least you got some lovely buns from it! when did the health problems start with yours or tinysmom? mine seems so happy, and like yours is so friendly after the birth when she wouldn't really be touched before how crazy!! but how great! if i have touched the babies on the first day and then at night she has fed them then it is safe to touch them now without the risk of her going for them isn't it? i just want to check on a morning that they have been fed. they didn't have huge bellies but they were more rounded thats ok isn't it do you think?


----------



## pinksalamander (Dec 6, 2006)

*Michaela wrote: *


> I love how this forum hardly ever criticises for accidental breeding,it can happen so easily, not many forums are like this one!:group:




A forum i first went on actually banned the talk of breeding or babies. I once saw a girl's post get locked for posting that her rabbit had had accidental babies because of a pet shop mis-sexing.


----------



## grumpybabies (Dec 6, 2006)

wow poor girl and she only wanted help! i forgot to put that on my bit i love this site too, i am on 3 other forums(sorry if that's like swearing on here lol) but none are as good as this one by far, this is my first stop, i go to others to give advice if i can, but i come here to get advice because you guys are great not criticising me even when i said i wanted to breed one litter u didn't have a go thats is truly great! :bunnydance:


----------



## TinysMom (Dec 6, 2006)

Ginger's problems started about 6 weeks after she had the babies....and I weaned them a bit early. She just started not being herself...it is hard to explain. She was a lot more tired than usual. She sneezed a couple of times (but no snot or anything). So I weaned the babes at 6 weeks instead of letting them stay in longer like some other litters. She seemed to miss them but was relieved I think.

Then she started getting problems with bloat on a fairly regular basis...off and on..maybe a month or so apart.

Then she got ear mites...two or three times.

She would be active for a while and then start getting sick again.

Several weeks ago, she had what we believe is a stroke. I've talked to the vet (two actually) and they both say that is what it sounds like.My normal vet is an hour away and when I told her what was happening and how Ginger was acting and what we were doing - she stated that we were doing what she would recommend. I talked to another vet at our church who isn't as rabbit savy and she stated that she calls my vet when she has questions (she never neuters the rabbits but sends them to the other vet) and she said that I was doing what she would recommend.I'm on a yahoo list for slaves of disabled rabbits and they've given advice too but its the same thing I'm doing.

She had her litter in September of '05. In many ways, I wish I'd never bred her. The upside of her illnesses is that she used to not care for me - and now she and I adore each other. She grooms me and snuggles with me and lets me love on her. When I pick her up to care for her,she snuggles into my arms and is very affectionate with me.

Although she can't hop and run (or even sit), it is my prayer that shelives for another 4-5 years although I doubt that will happen. I spend at least an hour per day - and usually much more than that - caring for her. She is my "baby". 

She sleeps in a laundry basket at night (with towels under her and to help her stay comfortable). She sits on my desk or on the breakfast bar when I'm in the kitchen...I have a special basket for her so she can sort of halfway sit and halfway recline. She usually puts herself in a reclining position. I hand feed her and give her water 4-5 times per day. I help her exercise her legs even though she hates it and would rather just sit in her basket or lay in her bed.

I keep thinking about writing a thread in the infirmary section about living with a disabled rabbit....but then I cry and am not sure how it would come across. Would some tell me to just put her down?

Anyway, I'm sorry for dumping on you guys....just watch your doe till after the babies are weaned. Of course, problems could still show up later too...then again, you may never have problems!

Peg
*
grumpybabies wrote: *


> when did the health problems start with yours or tinysmom?


----------



## grumpybabies (Dec 6, 2006)

Poor ginger i personally wouldn't tell you to put it down, you 2 obviously have a working relationship sussed out and she seems happy apart from you exercising her legs! atl east now i know that it wasn't me that deliberately bred my bun it washer choice to break out and get to my buck, although it won't make it any easier if she has problems...

Can i ask you some more questions pls? i'm sorry just a worried mum! i think the mum fed them last night but i have seen a photo on the net somewhere where the tummy looked bigger than my babies did, is it anything to worry about? do u have any photos i could compare to? or does anybody on here? also what is the danger period for new borns? i mean when are they most likely to die? i want to be able to start relaxing and enjoying them but i can't! if i touched them yesterday and she fed them all ok last night she won't reject them now at this point will she if i still touch them? thanks again


----------



## TinysMom (Dec 6, 2006)

First of all, we're here for questions. Ask away and don't worry about having too many questions. 

If mama fed them last night, they will have ping pong bellies right after being fed. However, let's say she fed them at 1 am and you don't check them till 8 am....then they've had 7 hours to process some of the milk. If they're getting cold or their bellies are starting to look shrunken...then you know they're not eating. 

Let's talk about some of the danger times for a litter. Maybe that will help you.

Until their fur comes in, it is dangerous for them if they get out of the nestbox because they have no way to keep warm. They need each other to keep them warm and of course they need the warmth the nestbox gives by containing them together w/ mama's fur, etc. If a baby is still attached to mama's nipple when she leaves the nestbox...and comes out of the box...then you have a danger time. Sometimes a mama will lay beside the baby and keep it warm till I get there. Unfortunately, I've had a couple of does accidentally squish the baby trying to keep itwarm. But a really good mama will try to keep the baby warm if it realizes that one is loose.

If mama gets mastitis and her nipple areas are inflamed, then there isa danger of infection in the milk. This is one reason why breeders will often breed two or more does at the same time - so they can foster if necessary. I once had feed problems and I had several does who didn't have milk come in - so Matilda kept TWENTY FOUR babies alive for 3 days while I waited desperately for another mama to give birth and have milk come in. Every 8 hours I gave her another set of 8 babies...so every baby got fed once per day. Fortunately, she had a wonderful milk supply and was willing to nurse that often and clean the babies, etc. If your doe gets mastitis, you will probably have to hand feed the babies.

Once their eyes are open and they can see and they are getting out of the nestbox, it can also be a bit of a dangerous time. Make sure they can't get out of the cage or hutch...they're often still small enough that they'll try to sneak out and explore 'cause they're curious.

Weaning can be a time of concern as the babies are leaving mama. Istart my babies on hay and oatmeal before they have rabbit food - forat least 2-3 days. Some of them might sneak a pellet or two but I tryto get them going on the oatmeal first. 

My point? Until baby is successfully weaned from mama - there isn't totally a "safe" time. You just have to enjoy them anyway and know that you run the risk of having your heart broken. A few weeks ago I lost a 5 week old baby - I knew he wasn't thriving as well as his litter mates but I was hoping he'd make it. I thought he was going to make it and the day before he died, he snoozed in my hand for an hour while I took a nap. The next morning I went out and found him dead.That was tough but sometimes it happens.

If mama is comfortable with you - she will probably let you hold the babies now. I'd have a bottle of vanilla with me and when you're done holding the babies - put a drop on mama's nose after you put the babies back in the cage. All she'll be able to smell then is vanilla and the babies will have the nestbox scent again soon.

Peg
*
grumpybabies wrote: *


> Can i ask you some more questions pls? i'm sorry just a worried mum! i think the mum fed them last night but i have seen a photo on the net somewhere where the tummy looked bigger than my babies did, is it anything to worry about?do u have any photos i could compare to? or does anybody on here? also what is the danger period for new borns? i mean when are they most likely to die? i want to be able to start relaxing and enjoying them but i can't! if i touched them yesterday and she fed them all ok last night she won't reject them now at this point will she if i still touch them? thanks again


----------



## grumpybabies (Dec 6, 2006)

that all really did help thanks once again! i do worry i ask too many questions but hopefully i won't have many more! i couldn't find a nest box anywhere in england, bad hey?! but they have a lovely warm nest and i have put a plank of wood above the level of the nest so they can't fall out, well hopefully! and when they start crawling god knows! i'm more confident from what you said though thanks. i will just check them once a day to check they have been fed and are alive and well. i will try and control my cuddling urges until then lol


----------



## Michaela (Dec 6, 2006)

Wow, you're great at giving advice Peg!

Grumpybabies, Berri's health problems are not nearly as bad as Peg's bunny. She had the babies in March, and then, a few months later she started getting abscesses, first there was one on her jaw, she had surgery to remove it, then one under her eye, causing it to bulge out,that one was drained, and now she has a big one in her dewlap, going to the vets soon for that.

Like I said, I have no idea if that happened from the breeding or just a coincidence:dunno, but I think most mamas don't have a problem.

I hate that I had no Internet at the time Berri had the babies, I had to rely on books, and most of them said not to touch the babies until they are two weeks old, and we were worried she'd kill them or something if we touched them, so we had to make do with just looking at them!:shock: Of course I know different now....:rollseyes And I know it wouldn't have been a problem with Berri, she was soo good at looking after them, she didn't want to stop feeding them, it was ten weeks before they finally were fully weaned! But she would gladly have let them go on longer!:lol

_*cough*_ Do you have any pictures of your little bundles? _*cough*_

Michaela and the girls:brownbunny:brownbunny:brownbunny


----------



## TinysMom (Dec 6, 2006)

Oh no....I cuddle mine from day one. 

In fact, one of my favorites, Harriet, used to sleep in my hand for an hour at a time all curled up. I kept saying, "I am NOT keeping a single mane chestnut lionhead. I don't care for chestnuts and I don't want single manes." But Harriet was so sweet - she just laid there and when I'd pet her as her fur came in, she'd just snuggle into my hand even deeper. Others would squirm and move around and want back into the nest. 

Then Harriet's eyes opened and I fell in love. She loved me petting her all the more and instead of wanting to explore -she wanted to cuddle into my hand. Mind you - she still could fit in my hand. 

Harriet grew and was my pride and joy. Why...she was so good with the younger babies. I decided that _*maybe*_ I could keep one single mane chestnut. After all, she was a girl. 

Then the day came when Harriet mounted my arm when I was playing with her. I decided to check her....and she...was a *HE. *

Oh no! I didn't want a BUCK. 

I cried and cried. Harriet had to get a cage immediately. 

I made my decision - I would rehome Harriet. I didn't want a buck that I wasn't going to use for breeding.

That was over a year ago. Harriet still lives with me and every nigh the snuggles up to me for cuddles when I go to feed the bucks. In fact,whenever I walk into the garage at all - he gets pets and a snuggle.

I can't let him go. He won my heart even before his eyes were open -even before he had fur. We bonded when he was 2 days old....and he'll forever be one of my "heart bunnies".

So cuddle with them now. It is amazing how you will probably find yourself bonding to one or two in particular....even at this age.

Peg


----------



## grumpybabies (Dec 6, 2006)

thats what i want to do i have a favourite looking one already, its going to be white with a line of grey or black spots down its back, but i want to bring them all in and cuddle the mall the time but i'm still worried about mum minding.... i don't want it to be my fault if she abandons them, she would barely let me touch her before she had the babies, so i'm worried she will turn on them...i will be patient for a few more days then take it she doesn't mind,i've already taken some out about 7 times in just over 24 hours so there shouldn't be a problem but just in case... and then you guys will have loads of piccies to see!


----------



## grumpybabies (Dec 6, 2006)

hint hint was that michaela? for piccies i mean! i am still worried that she will turn on them or abandon them so if she goes ok through tonight i may do photos tom or the next day as today she ywice saw me holding them and going into the nest which i think is a big risk but u will get fed up of pics soon lol


----------



## Michaela (Dec 6, 2006)

Can't wait!


----------

