# Sore hock??? HELP!!!



## iLuvMyLilBuns (Jul 8, 2013)

Hey guys,

I bought this rabbit in June.. He is 3 years old and he is a really good show rabbit, he has a few legs. Anyways.. The color on his belly is white like my other rabbit Lila. She has no stains on her and is perfectly clean (I don't clean her) My other rabbit Charlie is black tort like a brown color and he is perfectly clean with no stains. 

My new rabbit Basil has a white belly like I said and it's like all yellow and full of stains. I keep all my rabbits in the hutch below, they are each in their own hutch:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004HSQQY0/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

They have a wire part on the hutch that they stand on and I took the tray out so their "droppings" won't be near them and I just let everything fall on the ground and I clean it up weekly. In the hutch, their is a little box and I put bedding in there and hay. All my rabbits just eat and sleep in there and poop/pee on the wire.

Basil ONLY poops in the box and WON'T poop on the wire. He then lies on his poop/pee in the box. It's so gross and I have to clean it up almost everyday. They also have playpens in the grass that he goes out in every other day.

I'm 16, in 4-H and so I show them in the county fair... My fair is next week. I was looking over my rabbits today and noticed this on the bottom of his foot today:











I didn't notice it before because there is fur on top of it, I pulled back the fur for the picture. Is this a sore hock? If so please, how do I get rid of it fast? Also, what are good ways to get stains out of white rabbits??

I've never had to deal with this as all my rabbits are clean and tidy. I don't understand how he would get a sore hock.. I feel terrible  

Should I treat his foot and keep him in the playpen until the fair because the playpen doesn't have wire?? Where should I have him live?? 

His stomach and feet are SO gross.. 

Like I said his hutch doesn't just have wire there is his box but he poops/pees in it and I don't keep him in the hutch all the time he goes in the playpen and I take him out to play just like my other rabbits.. I don't think the wire would give him sore hocks..

 Any advice ASAP would be awesome! Also, if he does have sore hocks, how do I treat it fast?


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## ZoeStevens (Jul 8, 2013)

I have this problem with my angora from time to time. 

For now, get baby socks, medical tape and an antibiotic ointment - either regular polysporin. Or something from the vet. I bag balm, I think. Put in the ointment, put in the sock, then wrap some tape around the top of the sock to bunch it off so it doesn't fall off. There's a good series of photos somewhere on this forum - I am sure you can find if you google it.

You can get a Screen Kit (binkybunny sells it) that will help keep your rabbit off the urine-soaked bedding. What kind if bedding do you use?

Are you sure it's sore hocks and not just a callus, btw? I can't tell from the pics.


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## majorv (Jul 8, 2013)

I don't see bare skin in the picture so I'm wondering if the hair is just starting to grow back. You shouldn't have a problem showing him. If there were any sores that would be a DQ. It also sounds like your guy is one of those bucks who isn't interested in keeping himself groomed. Again, stains aren't a DQ but he won't be very competitive with them on his belly. I've read that some people use corn starch and/or baking soda to get urine stains off rabbit fur. If you google it you should find the ingredients and proportions.


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## iLuvMyLilBuns (Jul 8, 2013)

ZoeStevens: I'm not sure if it's a sore hock or not, I was hoping someone would be able to tell. It almost looks like dried bunched up fur not skin. If I got a screen kit my rabbit would have no solid place to stand but any solid place like a blanket or wood he pees/poops all over. I use this bedding: http://www.pet360.com/product/53097...e&extcid=pla&gclid=CKTAns--obgCFaVFMgod1F0AJQ

What should I do for his foot and how should I change the environment he is in?


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## majorv (Jul 9, 2013)

At this point I wouldn't consider it sore hocks. Rabbits who get sore hocks are more due to genetics than anything else. If they're prone to sore hocks then they can get them on carpet just as easily as on wire. If he spends a lot of time sitting on the wire part, you could get a ceramic tile and place it in the middle so he can sit on it. Check his feet regularly to see if you start seeing bare skin. If he's lying in the same box he's pooping/peeing in then that may also explain the matted hair. Have you tried taking out the box to see if he'll do his business over the wire?


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## iLuvMyLilBuns (Jul 9, 2013)

The box is not Since the box is not removable should i block off the box and put a solid blanket or something on the wire so he can rest his feet? Or should I have him be in his play pen on the ground 24/7? 

Also, how do I treat it fast, should I put ointment and a sock on him? 

And does anyone know if this will affect him at the fair? Do I need to take him to the vet to treat it?


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## majorv (Jul 9, 2013)

As I mentioned, I don't see bare skin, unless I'm missing something...so you should be able to show him. Until the fair you could either keep him in the playpen or spread a blanket over part of the wire. I wouldn't completely cover it, especially if you decide to block off the box. It looks like he has to go through the box to go down the ramp, right? Maybe you could try putting a litter box inside part of the area he likes to pee/poop and cover it with a grate so he can't lie in it. That would at least help with the stains he's getting on his fur. Maybe others will have suggestions...


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## woahlookitsme (Jul 9, 2013)

I agree with Majorv. It does not look open from the picture so it shouldn't be a problem. I don't see a need to treat it and don't put anything on it right before the fair because a judge can DQ for foreign substance on his feet even if it is medicine. 

Also agree rabbits can get sore hocks on wire or solid flooring. Sore hocks are genetic but he does not have sore hocks right now.


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## ZoeStevens (Jul 9, 2013)

If no bare skin then it's not sore hocks. It may be a callus, some rubbed-off skin that is growing back, healed sore hocks. My guy with sore hocks has red spots on his feet - you can see them when he hops. You can see red skin and sometimes very small scabs or shallow pus spots (some rabbits have it really bad if not caught early).

He did have calluses when he came from being on screen. He gets sore hocks from sitting in pee (his hutch-mate isn't very good at using a litterbox...). I clean as much as I can of course but sometimes it happens.


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## rabbit_friend (Jul 9, 2013)

I would check carefully for any swelling, tenderness, blood spots, or cuts, because sore hocks can get infected and abscessed very quickly (especially if he's sitting or lying on pee and poop), and it is difficult to tell there is an abscess beneath the surface. Even if there is fur over the area, if there is a cut anywhere and bacteria get in, you've got an abscess in the making. If not spotted, the infection can spread to the bone. 

If he is not a chewer, you could put some soft fleece-type blanket over the wire part of the cage since he doesn't use it to poop anyway. He is probably lying in his poop because it's the softest thing around and the feet probably do hurt on both wood and wire. If you give him a softer, cleaner option, he'll probably keep it clean because he'll want it for a bed. They don't really like sleeping where they go to the bathroom -- it goes against every instinct to avoid detection from predators. 

Make sure the fluffy litter you're buying is in the wooden box part so any moisture is absorbed and spot clean any wet spots at least once a day. Moisture can quickly lead to infection. Monitor his hocks daily, they can quickly go downhill.

Although some breeds do have more of a tendency to sore hocks, environment plays a large role. To avoid further injury (and not just staining), you really need a surface with "give" to it. The best solution I've ever read for hock issues is actually to keep the bunny on a really thick layer (6 inches or more) of hay round the clock, of course making sure it doesn't become wet or moldy. Also address anything that would throw the weight back onto the hocks: keep nails trimmed short, keep weight ideal, and provide lots of opportunity for activity so spine and muscles can be strong and keep the body in the best position. If the fur is worn away, nothing is going to be "fast" because you're waiting on hair to regrow, but anything that takes the pressure off the area allows it to heal. It's like a pressure sore on a bedridden patient, and even if it looks fine on the surface, constant pressure there can lead to tissue necrosis.


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## iLuvMyLilBuns (Jul 9, 2013)

Thanks everyone for the advice! As for the urine stains, I'll try to get them out. The stains are only on his underside so is that fine for judging?


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## majorv (Jul 9, 2013)

Do you mean they're just on his belly? If the judge flips him over - which he should to check nails, teeth and sex - he'll notice any stains. How much of a difference it makes, it just depends. If the stains aren't on his butt (and noticeable from behind) then that's better.


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## tonyshuman (Jul 9, 2013)

I would guess he is pooping and peeing inside the solid-floored area because he feels safer in there. If you put a covered cat litterbox in the larger section of the hutch, and put hay, litter, maybe a screen on top of the litter, and some of his in it, he might use that instead. You could also put a hidey box in the wire-bottomed section, maybe with a solid floor for the whole thing, and a litterbox in the enclosed area instead. This way he has separate places for hanging out and pooping. He probably doesn't hang out in the wire-floored part because it's wide open and he feels vulnerable or because of the wire floor.


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## iLuvMyLilBuns (Jul 10, 2013)

Is he still showable? Someone on www.allexperts.com told me this:

"No - he wont be able to compete at the fair. Fair judging is based on the SOP for each breed (standard of perfection/breed/breed standards) and sore hocks is an immediate disqualification. in fact, most fairs wont even let a rabbit with evidence of prior sore hocks on the table. You can either return him to the seller and get your money back, keep him as a pet knowing that his feet will need constant care, or have him humanely euthanized. If you choose to re-home him, please be certain to let the new owner know that his feet will require special care for the remainder of his life."


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## Bunnylova4eva (Jul 10, 2013)

Like previously said, I don't think this is actual sore hocks at this point-there don't sound like there are raw open spots on them; though they could progress into that. I think with just thinned fur on his feet, he should be fine for showing. Maybe someone on here knows better than me though about showing. I think he's probably still showable, but try to get the urine staining off.


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## majorv (Jul 10, 2013)

Based on the photos you posted I continue to say that I don't think he has sore hocks that would be a DQ. If you can post more pictures from different angles and straight on then it might help. I believe that what you're seeing on the bottom of his foot is short matted fur...and I think you said that yourself. It certainly doesn't look like skin or even a callous. Did the person who you quoted see his feet in person or were they looking at the same pictures we are?


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## rabbit_friend (Jul 10, 2013)

I don't know which expert was quoted, but sore hocks are treatable and the person who used the thick hay layer method I mentioned earlier had regrowth of fur on the feet, so it sounds a bit drastic to me to say rehome or euthanize him! I'm not sure how a judge would see prior evidence of sore hocks if all the fur was regrown (though of course it would take longer than a week if it's worn bare in spots). But yes, if a rabbit is prone to them, it will require "special care" for his entire life, but that might be as simple as changing the flooring and diet and monitoring for signs of irritation.

There are also some very graphic testimonial type pictures of a rabbit with terrible pododermatitis (when the sore hocks become open and infected), and then with fur regrowth after using their products (along with some antibiotics and environment changes which they sort of minimize!) at this website: http://www.exoticdvm.com/mammal (scroll down to the rabbit pododermatitis case) I found their cream to be more irritating than helpful, but some people swear by it.


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## iLuvMyLilBuns (Jul 11, 2013)

I just wanted to let you guys know that Basil's foot took a turn for the worse  I went to an Essential Oils party last winter and they gave me this animal ointment and I thought It would help his feet heal. I guess not.. My mom thinks it like burned his feet because now they are open wounds  I feel terrible and dumb...

Since I don't know what to do for him and the fair is next week I decided to make an appointment at the vet tomorrow. Hopefully they can help us, they said they would maybe put him on an antibiotic... If anyone has experienced this let me know if you took your rabbit to the vet or if you know a home remedy to heal his feet.


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## iLuvMyLilBuns (Jul 11, 2013)

EDITED:

I just wanted to let you guys know that Basil's foot took a turn for the worse  I went to an Essential Oils party last winter and they gave me this animal ointment and I thought It would help his feet heal. I guess not.. My mom thinks it like burned his feet because now they are like red open wounds like skin  I feel terrible and dumb...

Since I don't know what to do for him and the fair is next week I decided to make an appointment at the vet tomorrow. Hopefully they can help us, they said they would maybe put him on an antibiotic... If anyone has experienced this let me know if you took your rabbit to the vet or if you know a home remedy to heal his feet.


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## iLuvMyLilBuns (Jul 11, 2013)

Today he also hasn't really moved much at all and I don't think he has ate or drink.


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## Bonsai (Jul 11, 2013)

Oh no.  Are you sure the essential oil you put on his feet did not contain something that was poisonous to him?


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## iLuvMyLilBuns (Jul 11, 2013)

I don't think it was poisonous because it says u can put it on rabbits.


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## Bonsai (Jul 11, 2013)

I haven't searched much but I did find an article discussing EOs and rabbits/pets in general. It seems that dilution is VERY important with EOs. Did you check the EOs for any instructions on diluting the oil? Here's the article, if you'd like to read it:

http://ilovemyhouserabbit.com/essential-oils-the-hidden-dangers-for-well-meaning-rabbit-lovers/

Not trying to scare you, but if something you used on him fits the bill it could be helpful information to take with you to the vet. I hope Basil will be okay and heal quickly! ):


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## Bunnylova4eva (Jul 11, 2013)

Diluting essential oils IS very important. I've used them myself, and let me tell you: they are STRONG. I've look into what it was and how much should have been used. If it continues and more, I'd definitely get him in to the vet. In the mean time, I'd clean off anything off his feet you can.-maybe use some sort of mild soap that is _Bunny Safe _to clean it off and_ rinse_ _well_.

Hope your little guy is feeling better soon!


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## woahlookitsme (Jul 11, 2013)

I hope he feels better too. I believe everyone told you on here that there were no open wounds and treatment wasnt necessary. . .

Poor dude. Good Luck


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## majorv (Jul 11, 2013)

Sorry to hear this. If the fair is next week then there is no way you'll be able to show him with open wounds...it won't heal that fast. Based on the picture you had posted I think he could've been shown. I know there are home remedies out there but you should take him to the vet at this point. It's possible the oil was absorbed into his skin and you'd need a vet's advice about that.


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## NorthernAutumn (Jul 11, 2013)

Wash the feet with soap and water, rinse thoroughly. Take him to the vet ASAP - sounds like either oral (mouth) or dermal (through the skin) intake! Do NOT wait this out! 

If bunny is not eating or drinking, they can go downhill VERY fast.


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## iLuvMyLilBuns (Jul 11, 2013)

It wasn't actually oil it was an ointment similar to neosporin.


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## iLuvMyLilBuns (Jul 11, 2013)

Their is fur like overlapping the sores and the judge at our county fair (our fair is TINY) judges all the animals I think so he's not very intelligent. I've been eligible for state fair many years and there isn't even 10 rabbits in total for 4-H.. There's some open class. Anyways, I'm hoping after I bring him to the vet they will heal a little bit and I doubt the judge will notice the sores. Then I will hopefully have them healed by state. Maybe..

I'm almost 100% sure I'll take him to state as long as the sore hocks are healed a little or not noticible.. The only reason I notice them now is because I know they are there. There is fur overlapping the sores so I couldn't see it for a while.

The rabbits at my county fair are not really the best show rabbits and I'm the only one who brings Holland Lops and my rabbits are pretty good. They have a few legs so I'm really hoping Basil will make it to state.. This all is just putting a damper on things.. I'm praying for a miracle


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## NorthernAutumn (Jul 11, 2013)

Can you clarify, please? Is your rabbit eating and drinking normally, with poo produced?


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## woahlookitsme (Jul 12, 2013)

Honestly I believe you are downsizing this problem. If he has open sores a judge should notice and will DQ him. Taking him to the fair could create even more problems such as stress or risk him opening the wounds and making them worse. I HIGHLY recommend NOT taking him to the fair and giving him time to heal. Is it really worth it?


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## iLuvMyLilBuns (Jul 12, 2013)

Basil is eating and drinking normally. I went to the vet today and she gave me Nolvasan scrubs to wash his feet 1-2 times a day for 3-5 days. She also gave me Nolvasan ointment to put on after I scrub his feet for 3-5 days. I asked her about the fair and she said his feet should be callused and fine by fair.


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Jul 12, 2013)

iLuvMyLilBuns said:


> Is he still showable? Someone on www.allexperts.com told me this:
> 
> "No - he wont be able to compete at the fair. Fair judging is based on the SOP for each breed (standard of perfection/breed/breed standards) and sore hocks is an immediate disqualification. in fact, most fairs wont even let a rabbit with evidence of prior sore hocks on the table. You can either return him to the seller and get your money back, keep him as a pet knowing that his feet will need constant care, or have him humanely euthanized. If you choose to re-home him, please be certain to let the new owner know that his feet will require special care for the remainder of his life."



I'm not familiar with All Experts, so I'm not sure who is answering questions there. But this response seems a bit premature.

Holland Lops have very strong personalities, as I'm sure you've witnessed. With intact bucks, this can mean some VERY messy bucks. I have had many who like to keep their cages impeccably clean and others who give pigs a run for their money. Some Holland bucks spray...a lot. That, coupled with a solid floor area can be a disaster for an intact buck. I believe this is a case of urine burn, not sore hocks.

I'd recommend sectioning off the solid part of the hutch so that he can't access it. I also wouldn't recommend a litterbox, unless it has a grate over the top so he's not standing in the litter. You can order a hard plastic, slotted, resting mat from most cage companies for under $3. This is a good option because it's easy to wipe off daily if he continues to mess it up, and if he pees it falls through the floor.

Messy bucks also seem to do best if they're not housed close to other rabbits. If you're able to move his hutch a few feet away from the others, that may help a lot. I don't have quite that much room, but I separate my messy bucks from the rest of my rabbits with solid cage dividers. It does tend to help.

That should clear up the cage situation and make it a little less possible for him to "marinate" in perfume de buck.

Secondly, it would be a good idea to give him a bath this week. Always bathe rabbits at least a week before fair so their fur can recover some of its natural oils. Just fill a sink with about an inch of water. It helps to have someone hold him in the water while you spot-clean only those spots necessary (sounds like his belly/feet and maybe tail.) Don't submerse him in water or rinse his whole body...just the dirty parts. Make this as quick as possible (a minute or two). Then take him out and towel dry him as best you can. Make sure the weather is mild or his coat is thoroughly dry before he goes back outside.

As for his feet, usually bag balm helps clear up sore hocks.

It will take a few weeks, but you should notice that your buck starts living a bit of a cleaner lifestyle and hopefully will stay cleaner.

Based on the pictures, I wouldn't expect that your rabbit would be disqualified from a fair show, but it probably depends on the judge. I don't think there is any harm in taking him if there are no open wounds. If there are, please keep him at home.

If his feet seem irritated on the wire until his fur grows back, it may help to cut up an old towel and give him a piece to rest on. You can switch out the pieces daily and wash them. His feet may be a bit tender while they're still bare, but Hollands have very thickly-furred feet and he should be fine once it grows back in.


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## iLuvMyLilBuns (Jul 12, 2013)

OakRidgeRabbits:

Thanks so much for the advice. His feet are now red/pink open sores. Like I said the vet gave me scrubs and ointment. Do you think that he will be fine at the fair next week? Judging is on Thursday. The vet said his feet should callus over by then but I'm not sure. I just put the ointment on his feet so If you need a pic I can take one tomorrow.

Also, I ordered a blue resting mat online a few days ago. http://www.bunnyrabbit.com/equipmentpix/footpad_10x14.jpg For now I blocked off the wood and I have him on the wire with a blanket until the resting mat gets here 

At the fair, they don't have wire bottoms, they just have to lie in their bedding so I'm a little nervous. Maybe I should bring with the blue resting mat?


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Jul 12, 2013)

That will be a great resting mat.  That's what I use. They're easier on the feet but very easy to clean too.

I would play it by ear as far as the show goes. His feet should heal quickly with the ointment provided by the vet, but wire can irritate sore feet a little bit more when the fur is rubbed away. At the same time, the solid bottom is not the best idea for a rabbit that likes to use it as a bathroom. So it's a bit of a catch 22 and a waiting game to see how things go. Hopefully he'll hang out on his blanket while his feet heal, but you may need to make adjustments if he's a particularly active guy. I have heard that Preparation H helps heal quickly too, but have not tried it myself.

Do you have an outdoor run or pen he could play in while you're home? Grass would be soft on his feet and probably help the healing process for the time being.

If his feet are still sore when it's time to go to the fair, it would be best to keep him at home. But if you still have a few days to decide, I'd wait and see how he's doing when the time comes.

Do you know if the fair provides risers for wool breeds? They are basically a small, portable wire floor. If not, just keep his cage as clean as possible. Adding extra bedding can help absorb moisture. 

Hopefully all this was just irritation caused by hanging out in his dirty bedding. If that's the case, he should be doing much better when his fur grows back.  Sometimes it's just hard to find the balance of helpful treatment and the right flooring to let it happen. Hollands usually have very thick fur on their feet, so once it's back they usually do well on wire and can stay cleaner that way.

Good luck to your little guy and keep us updated! After years of bunnies, I've devised many levels of tricks to get around their less positive quirks, so if these ideas don't work we'll come up with Plan B.


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