# Rabbits + Cat Litter



## JAK Rabbitry (Dec 22, 2007)

I know you can't like, have a litter box with meow litter in it but I have 11 rabbits in a small living room right now and I was wondering if they're be alright if I mixed some Tidy Cat litter in with the sawdust (its actually dust) thats in the trays under the cage wire? Just to cut down on stinkies. 

-JAK


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## Flashy (Dec 22, 2007)

I don't know about what you have done,but I use cat wodd pellet litter, it's safe for buns and is cheap too. It has to be non clumping, whatever you use though.

But there are some cat litters safe for buns, that's for sure.


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## seniorcats (Dec 22, 2007)

I can only tell you my personal experience. When I first got rabbits, there was no Internet as source of information and only 1 book, in German, that addressed house rabbits. I used cat letter for my bunnies for 15 years and never had a clue it was 'dangerous'. Coney lived to be 15 yrs, Evil Bunny lived to be 13, Freddie and Aleaxander lived to be 12. All used cat litter and not a single bunny ever ate it or had problems with dust or respiratory issues. I used the cheapie unscented WalMart Special Kitty. I read an article on the Internet that said some bunnies will ingest it but I never saw it happen. They have never eaten anything used in their litter boxes.

Now that I am 'educated' (ha ha ha) I use generic horse stall bedding simply because it absorbs liquid and contains odor better than cat litter.


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## JAK Rabbitry (Dec 22, 2007)

Yeah I have used the pellet pine junk for my cat, I wanted something for the bunnies though that has more of a scent that wouldn't irritate them. I didn't think it would be harmful if they don't have direct access to it. 

-JAK


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## naturestee (Dec 22, 2007)

Why not use the wood pellet litter? You can get it cheaper than the "special" cat stuff if you buy it at a feed store. The wood pellets are kiln dried, which takes out the oily scent stuff that is bad for them. So they're safe.

Since this is just for drop pans, you could use clay kitty litter. But I think the wood pellets work better for smell control.


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## JAK Rabbitry (Dec 22, 2007)

I've used wood pellets before and It was still stinky. The clay litter I have now has like an actual scent to it that I liked. 

I get all my shtuff at the feed store except bedding, which I get from the saw mill. ITs cheapest to get it there so I jsut use that in the trays, but I use actual pine shavings for nest boxes. 

I don't want to have to buy another totally differernt product, but I havea cat and therefore have cat litter so I was just wondering if it'd be safe to use since I already have it and buy it for the cat.


-JAK


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## Haley (Dec 22, 2007)

As long as its a drop pan and theyre not actually sitting on it it should be ok. The main way they ingest it is if they try to eat their cecal pellets. The cat litter sticks to the poop and then they ingest it. 

I agree, wood pellets work great here.


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## JAK Rabbitry (Dec 23, 2007)

yay


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## Gumbo1993 (Dec 27, 2007)

i use the Kitty Cristals. Gumbo was traned with that kind of litter at the pet store. so instead of taking him off of it he uses that kind. when i did try to use bun bun litter he refused to potty in that one and dumped the pan over!


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## naturestee (Dec 27, 2007)

So you have cat litter in a normal litter box, that he can jump into and actually touches the litter? That really doesn't sound like a good idea. The cat litter could cause a serious problem if he licks some off of his paws. The only reason we're saying it's ok for Jesse (JAK Rabbitry) is that her rabbits are in wire floor cages and the litter goes in the pan underneath, so they won't touch the litter at all.

The crystal type of cat litter is silica gel, just like those little packets in shoes and other products that say "Do Not Eat." Here is more info on silica gel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silica_gel

Although it's not poisonous or toxic, it could upset the stomach. I'd rather not take the chance. At least with the wood pellet litter I use, it's something that a rabbit would naturally ingest in small amounts when it eats bark. So a little nibble now and then won't hurt.


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## JAK Rabbitry (Dec 27, 2007)

yeah I tried that cat litter thing in the trays.....

The smell of cat litter was too overpowering for me and i got a headache from smelling it all day. And Erron kept insisting our cat crappedi n the living room, til I told him about the new bedding I put int he trays. 

I cleaned it today and the litter turned into like....slime. And it wasn't very fun.

I dont' thin kthe cat litter in the bunny tray is goign to be a swell idea henceforth. I'll stick with sawdust I suppose

-JAK


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## naturestee (Dec 27, 2007)

Wouldn't the wood pellets work better than sawdust?


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## JAK Rabbitry (Dec 28, 2007)

Nope. I can sift the sawdust with my cat litter scoop. Which saves me on bedding. And its cheaper. 

PS - I STILL hate wood pellets.


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## Boz (Dec 29, 2007)

I used cat litter once. I used Tidy Cats small spaces because someone else I know uses that stuff for their rabbit and they said it was safe. I used it for a month or two then stopped. It was awesome for smell and I could siff out the potty which was nice but it was more expensive.

Now I use Wood Pellets. LOVE the stuff. I can stick my nose in it and I smell nothing.I tried corn cob once. Don't like it. Doesn't obsorb smell well.Shavings stick to the bunnies' fur


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## JAK Rabbitry (Dec 29, 2007)

I was using tidy cats. I couldn't smell bunny waste at all. But I could smell kitty litter in mass quantities. I did like being able to sift it with my cat litter scoop.

but I went back to just plain sawdust. IT is a fine powdering sawdust so i'm s till able to sift it.


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## okiron (Dec 29, 2007)

Arm and Hammer kitty litter was horrid. Didn't cover the smell at all. It was even worse because I hated how the litter smelled on it's own. I love Scoop Away.


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## JAK Rabbitry (Dec 29, 2007)

my mum HATES stink in any and all forms. She can't stand it. She claims so many thing stink and like, forbids them. But she cooks squid for Christmas. 

Anyways, she has one cat and she insists on Arm and Hammer multicat.

She and my dad have a 3 story house and I was outside feedin' bunnies one summer and she comes out ont he very top deck and she's like '' I smell dog poop out there!'' and she made me find it and clean it up. 

She and my dad's room is on the top floor and i'm in the middle at the other end of the house. and she'd scream down the stairs at me to put my socks in the hamper. 

????


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## okiron (Dec 29, 2007)

*JAK Rabbitry wrote: *


> my mum HATES stink in any and all forms. She can't stand it. She claims so many thing stink and like, forbids them. But she cooks squid for Christmas.
> 
> Anyways, she has one cat and she insists on Arm and Hammer multicat.
> 
> ...


O.O wow has your mom thought of having a career in drug sniffing?


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## JAK Rabbitry (Dec 29, 2007)

I would think she wouldn't be the best for that job after she found my brother's cigars and tobacco and didn't do anything about it. 

I also found it rather comical that when I moved out and my bro moved iinto my room, she also found a pair of girl's underwear....which weren't mine. 

She said she left them on his computer desk to let him know she found them and later they disappeared. She made my husband confront him on the matter. Poor kid. 


-JAK


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## okiron (Dec 29, 2007)

Aww that sucks. Not something you wanna talk to your parents about, regardless of what it's there for.


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## JAK Rabbitry (Dec 30, 2007)

I know. No one believes in underpants gnomes anymore .


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## Gumbo1993 (Dec 31, 2007)

i dont use litter anymore 'cuz we got a new cage for gumbo and it is also a wire cage so all of his poop gose to the tray at the bottom of the cage. Oreo has a smaller cage. she is not potty trained. i dont even know how to potty train bunnies. Gumbo was already potty trained when i got him! so i just change her woodshavings every week. that gets annowing but i learn to live with it!


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## Flopsy (Jan 1, 2008)

Yesterdays News is so expensive here and the buns go through it so quickly my parents refuse to buy it anymore and make me use cat litter or they have to go back outside. Now I'm going to buy Yesterdays News with my Christmas money because I did notice that only having switched their litter to cat litter for one week that Fluffy already had poop stuck to his leg. Since Fluffy is always in his litter box I'm going to have his switched back to Yesterdays News and keep Pumpkin with the cheap kitty litter because he never goes in his box except to use the bathroom.


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## spoh (Jan 2, 2008)

If you can get to a feed store, Tractor Supply or something like that you can buy 40 pounds of wood pellets for way less than Yesterdays news. I buy 40lbs for under 6.00. 

Just an idea!

Joy


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## JAK Rabbitry (Jan 2, 2008)

*spoh wrote: *


> If you can get to a feed store, Tractor Supply or something like that you can buy 40 pounds of wood pellets for way less than Yesterdays news. I buy 40lbs for under 6.00.
> 
> Just an idea!
> 
> Joy




For serious? I didn't know it was that cheap. Then again knowing my TSC it'll be more expensive. A bag of bunny feed at the TSC in the next town in like $8. But I pay $11 for it because its like a rich people's town so I guess they figure they can charge more for everything. My friend was using wood pellets in her horse's stall. The horse that I am now taking care of at my barn. Though her horse is such a PIG that I don't think wood pellets are going to do any good. She destroys everything overnight. And I was jsut up til 1230 AM last night cleaning stalls trying to catch up on some work.


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## Flopsy (Jan 2, 2008)

*spoh wrote: *


> If you can get to a feed store, Tractor Supply or something like that you can buy 40 pounds of wood pellets for way less than Yesterdays news. I buy 40lbs for under 6.00.
> 
> Just an idea!
> 
> Joy



I have a tsc 15mins away!!! Whats the brand name what area of the store are they in? :biggrin2: I always feel stupid wandering around not knowing what I'm looking for, haha.


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## Haley (Jan 2, 2008)

Its near the horse equipmentand other large bags of animal food. Its usually stacked on the floor. Its called Equine Fresh and its like 6.00 for a 40# bag. So much cheaper than Yesterdays News!


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## spoh (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep! What Haley said! The Tractor Supply is about 45 minutes from my house but it's in a town that we really like to visit so running low on bunny supplies is a great excuse to go. I usually buy 2 or 3 bags per visit and with only one bunny it last a long time.


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## gentle giants (Jan 3, 2008)

I get the Woody Pet, I think it's also supposed to be a horse bedding. I pay $5.50 for 35 pounds. It works great, sucks up all the wet and barely smells at all.


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## Flick (Jan 3, 2008)

Please don't use sawdust. Here's why...

[ame]http://youtube.com/watch?v=JTT7Dr_pPbc[/ame]


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## JAK Rabbitry (Jan 3, 2008)

I think aside from the cedar, the chances of all these ill effects of wood-based bedding actually coming into effect are extremely slim. I've used nothing but for over 13 years. Never had any kind of skin problem. Infact i've had no bedding-related health issues. 

I think the Dr. in the video is just a bit.....radical? 

Has anyone else ever had a serious health issue with wood-based bedding (not including cedar) ?


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## gentle giants (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, I hadn't heard of wood bedding causing skin problems, I had always heard it gave them respiratory irritation. I had even heard about over long term things like kidney problems, reproductive problems, that sort of thing. 

I was wondering-are your rabbits directly in the litter, or is it in pans underneath? Also, are they outdoors or in?


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## JAK Rabbitry (Jan 3, 2008)

The wood bedding is in plastic trays under the bedding. They onyl time they are directly-exposed to bedding is the shavings I buy from TSC that I use in the nest boxes.

My ra bbits are in a heated shed in the yard, but I've been bringing in my pregos to give birth and raise their babies to a decent size since it's warmer in my living room and I can keep a close watch on them, especially if they have babies on the wire, its not a big deal I can just fling their arses back in there. Once my babies hit around 3 weeks I swap them out with a new prego.


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## Flick (Jan 4, 2008)

Please read the below post in a conversational tone, not an agressive or snitty tone. I intend it to be a friendly sharing of supportive information.

The doctor in the video is a highly respected exotic vet in Houston and sees many rabbits in his practice. He's very conservative in his diagnosis and treatments. I know him, personally. I did the video taping and editing. And I uploaded it to YouTube, with his permission, of course. If you were to watch the other videos I've uploaded, you'd see my two rabbits, Pixel and Skyler. 

Even though your rabbits may not come into direct contact with the sawdust, it's the fumes that the rabbits breathe when urine mixes with the sap in the sawdust that causes liver damage. Especially if it's pine sawdust. There's no way to protect the rabbits from breathing in the fumes. That's why the litter needs to be kiln dried if it's a wood based product. 

Again, please read this as a converational sharing of information. I know you love your rabbits and want to do the best you can for them.


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## JAK Rabbitry (Jan 4, 2008)

I didn't think you were being snitty. 

I just find it hard to believe that it causes so many problems when I've never had such a problem and I've never heard of anyone having these problems and breeders especially, its all we use. 

I'd also like to know where he got this information and how many cases of health issues he can be 100% positive came from using a wood-based bedding.


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## gentle giants (Jan 4, 2008)

The fact yours have always done fine with it may be because you have a well-ventilated building, or your sawdust is from a different kind of tree, or something. I don't think personally I have ever really seen evidence of cedar/pine or whatever causing problems, but I have never used it for my rabbits. I have used both of those for smaller animals like rats, hamsters, etc years ago, but I have no idea if it shortened any of their lives or not. 

I think what I am getting at is-I have never been certain one way or the other, I only heard about the issue about the time I started with my rabbits. (The second time, that is.) I hadn't even heard of such a thing when I was younger and had little critters.


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## JAK Rabbitry (Jan 4, 2008)

Hmm. My enviornment + sawdust combo has changed dramatically over those 13 years. I've used so many different brands and kinds...

When I lived with my mum I had to keep all my bunnies in hutches. In summer the boxes just got a thin layer of pine shavings. I cleaned them every 3-5 days or whenever they looked dirty. Some bunnies insisted on pooping that box while others kept it somewhat clean.

In winter I still kept the layer of shavings but I also stuffed the box with hay and/or straw. But it was also cleaned every 3-5 days, like clockwork. 

Now the bunnies are in a heated shed. In sumemr I open all the windows and put fans in there but I do have an AC unit i'm hooking up for next summer. And I'd liek to get a screen door for the regular door so I can leave it open and now have to worry about escapees and critters . Now I use the same sawdust we use for our horses, it's from a sawmill and its very fine, but it only goes inteh trays. I use pine shavings from a different place for nest boxes and for my belgians. 

I did know a woman in my rabbit club her boought a second rabbit for her son and then a frien dof hers had some critter pass away and she gave them like half a large bag of cedar. They didn't know better and within 2 days the rabbit was dead. They asked me what could have happaned and I told them about hte cedar and she was very upset. 

Last Christmas some guy bought 3 French Lops from me. And just a few months ago he contacted me saying he could no longer care for them because he had to pick up a second job and he felt bad they weren't getting enough attention. So he brought them back, and their cage was one of those pet stores ones with the deep plastic bottom, and they were all sitting on a thick layer of cedar. And he's like ''heres the rest of the cedar i'm sure you can use it'''. And I ssaid ''AAAHHHHH' I know very professional of me. I dumped it int he doghouse. Waste not!


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## Flick (Jan 4, 2008)

I can't speak for Dr. Cruzen, but I'm sure that he'd be glad to talk with you about this. His phone number is 281-890-7257. Just tell him that you saw his video on YouTube and have some questions for him. He's very nice.

However, I can pass on links to let you know where I got information about pine. I know you don't use cedar, it just seems like when one is discussed the other is also discussed. 

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/1/liver-disease.html
http://www.trifl.org/cedar.shtml
http://www.afrma.org/rminfo2a.htm
http://www.rabbit.org/care/shavings.html
http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/guineapigs/a/woodshavings.htm
http://www.rabbit.org/care/shavings.html
http://www.bio.davidson.edu/Courses/anphys/1999/Cook/Text.htm
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/training.html
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/Dust.htm

French Lops!!!!!!!! I love French Lops! Okay, I'm a sucker for any rabbit, but French Lops are just SOOOOO cool! The Flemish Giant in the video is also too cool. His philosophy is "You got a hand! I got a head! PET ME!!!!!!"


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