# if anyone has hamsters or mice...



## Imbrium (Dec 21, 2012)

if anyone's looking to upgrade their hamster(s) or mice to a bin cage that's nothing short of a paradise, I stumbled upon just the thing!

in the christmas section of walmart (NOT the bin section), they sell some big red and green storage tubs (that aren't suitable for bin cages)... AND... a storage bin designed for an artificial tree that's *perfect*!

the bin is approx. 17 1/4'' wide and 48'' long (measuring along the bottom) for a total of approximately 828 square inches! the bin itself is only 10.5'' deep, but it has a dome-style lid (which fits snugly) that adds another 2.5'' to the total height, bringing it up to 13'' which is enough for a syrian hamster's wheel. it's even clear (with a green lid)! it also has wheels built into the bottom.

the bin costs about $30, which is a good deal for something so obscenely huge, especially compared to what a store-bought cage that size would cost if one even existed. it's just over twice as much as the 105 quart clear plastic bin that walmart carries, but it's also more than twice the total size of it (that one is about 407 square inches). the biggest bin I'd ever seen before this one was a gray one for like $18 that's 594 square inches and so deep it doesn't need a lid even with a wodent wheel (great bin, I just hate that it's not clear). I didn't have room in my car for them today, but I'm definitely gonna go back and get a couple before the holidays are over! (pity they don't sell these year-round, they're a hamster owner's dream come true!)

just thought I'd share, since I'm sure these bins won't be around after the holidays and they're, by FAR, the best bin I've ever seen for making a bin cage.

(if anyone has hamsters/mice and doesn't know how to build a bin cage, they're the best thing ever and I'd be happy to explain how I made mine)


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## 12lawliet12Snickers, Truffle (Dec 22, 2012)

Can the mice chew it though? Mine are wildings that I found orphaned last month that weren't even weaned yet, and they've chewed holes in the top of the screen top of their tank. It's the one Walmart sells, with the slats on the side and the mesh in the middle. I had to duct tape it closed so they wouldn't escape. That's my main concern about this idea. They chew 5 times more than domestic mice and I don't want them escaping...


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## 12lawliet12Snickers, Truffle (Dec 22, 2012)

Also, how easy are they to keep clean? I have to clean the tank I'm using now nearly daily and it's a bit of a hassle.


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## whitelop (Dec 22, 2012)

So you have field mice that you found? Do you plan on keeping them once they're old enough to be set free?


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## 12lawliet12Snickers, Truffle (Dec 22, 2012)

No, they can't be set free, I found them in a glue trap and all 3 have some form of disability from it  they're adapting well to captivity, though. I call them the three mousketeers.


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## Imbrium (Dec 22, 2012)

aww, poor little mice... so sweet of you to take them in!

I've never had mice... hammies usually pick a potty spot to do their peeing in (sometimes a corner; sometimes their sleeping area). I scoop out the potty area regularly but only have to clean the whole cage every 2 weeks at the most (with 404-680 square inch cages). (I use carefresh bedding)

when I clean, I dump the bin out and then clean it (focusing especially on the corners where there's often pee spots) using this cleaner I found in the pet section of walmart called "noodor" (totally pet safe and does a great job getting rid of smells - even unspayed rabbit pee).

the bin plastic is hard and thick, I've never had anyone chew their way out and hammies are avid chewers. I had 12 babies in one cage for a week or two and all 12 combined couldn't make a way out.

here's the post in my blog where I explained how I built the bin cages: http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f18/nala-gaz-70961/index17.html#post942215

I used 1/2'' hardware cloth for mesh, but mice are pretty darn tiny so I'm not sure if that would work - probably safer to use 1/4'' cloth. the mesh seems to be thoroughly chew-proof - I had 12 babies chewing at the bars a LOT and there's not even the tiniest bit of damage. you won't need washers if you go with 1/4'' mesh. it's not "screen", it's heavy-duty metal.

as a note, you don't NEED a dremel to cut windows in the plastic. a $5-6 hand saw will work, some people have even used box cutters or scissors. a dremel is simply the *easiest* and the least amount of work. with a big bin that has multiple windows, I would definitely at least cough up for a hand saw so your hand/arm won't hurt as much after 

with very chew-happy mice, I suggest either not drilling ventilation holes at all (not necessary if you're generous with the windows) or drilling them very high up towards the top (or better yet, in the ceiling) where a mouse couldn't sit there and slowly chew at the hole to enlarge it.

in my tutorial, I wound fleece around the edges of the mesh just in case there were any pointy bits... I just cut strips from a cheap $2.89 fleece blanket from walmart. fleece is totally safe if chewed, even if tiny bits are ingested. if you wanted to be able to spray the bin down with a hose without taking off the windows (the one flaw in my design), you could find a way to sand down the edges of the windows or use aluminum strips to bolt the mesh to the cage (looks fancier and is a better design, but I was making 12 cages on a tight budget).

for this bin from walmart, I would do 2-3 windows down one of the long sides (with probably 6''+ between windows)... then either more windows on the back side or in the top of the bin or drill ventilation holes in the lid. since mice love to climb, they'd probably prefer to have windows on the back as well... there should be enough hardware cloth in the smallest roll available for 4-6 windows.

I'm gonna go back to walmart today to fetch a couple of the bins (once I make sure they'll actually fit in my car)... just realized I didn't think to take a good look at the bottom of the bin to make sure there's no edges (like around the wheels) where chewers could get a good grip, so I'll check it out and get back to you on that. if it turns out this bin might be chewable, there are still others that are good.

this is what I've used for the hammy babies, it's 407 square inches: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sterilite-105-Quart-Latch-Box-Set-of-4/20699635
^ that bin and a 110 qt bin that I've been told Target sells are the biggest clear bins available (not counting this new insanely big bin)

this is what I used for the first bin cage I ever made, when price wasn't an issue (because I wasn't making "starter kits" that I wanted to keep the cost down on): http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sterilite-50-Gallon-200-Quart-Tote-Set-of-4-Titanium/15940602
it's 594 square inches, so lots roomier... the trade-off is that it isn't clear; I really prefer the clear bins.

(both are sold by the individual bin if you buy in-store - if you divide the online price for four by 4, that's the in-store price for one (ie there's no discount for buying the 4-pack))


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## 12lawliet12Snickers, Truffle (Dec 22, 2012)

Thanks for all of that info! I'll really look into bins, i have an empty one from my grandma's fabric stash that I used up all the fabric from. I don't know about a hand saw though... I'd be too afraid of losing a finger or something. I'm a bit clumsy.


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## Imbrium (Dec 22, 2012)

I had a home depot employee help me pick out the right saw... what you'd want is called a "jab saw" - I think this is the one I got: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...10053&langId=-1&keyword=jab+saw&storeId=10051 (there are also cheaper ones)

it's pretty small and un-intimidating as far as saws go, and you won't be moving it really quickly or anything so it's easy to not hurt yourself


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## 12lawliet12Snickers, Truffle (Dec 22, 2012)

Oh, well that's good. Maybe once tax returns are here I'll build them a big tub cage. Do you know if there's any way to connect 2 together? The top on the tank they're in now has these little door things where you can add those little plastic tubes. Before I heard about tubs I was considering getting another tank and connecting the two with those tubes and maybe add a tank topper.


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## Imbrium (Dec 22, 2012)

I know it's possible to connect bin cages using tunnels, as I've seen pics of people's set-ups that were like that... don't know how it's actually done, but you could probably get instructions by asking on a mouse or hamster forum.


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## whitelop (Dec 22, 2012)

12lawliet12Snickers said:


> No, they can't be set free, I found them in a glue trap and all 3 have some form of disability from it  they're adapting well to captivity, though. I call them the three mousketeers.



Thats really sad  but its so nice of you to take them in and take care of them! Those glue traps are so horrible.


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## Imbrium (Dec 22, 2012)

yeah, killing mice is bad enough as it is... glue trap seems like a particularly horrific way to go  poor little miceys!


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## KittyKatMe (Dec 23, 2012)

I had a huge bin cage for my WW, but he passed away in October. I'm getting new hammies after Christmas/early January. If I need to separate them, that'll be the way to go!


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## Imbrium (Dec 23, 2012)

man, I wish you lived near me, lol... I'm still trying to get rid of the hamster babies my girl Misty had on 11/3. they're cute as can be, but 14 hammies total on top of 2 sugar gliders, 2 bunnies and 2 stray (outdoor) cats is a lot of upkeep!


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## 12lawliet12Snickers, Truffle (Dec 23, 2012)

Imbrium, if you were closer to me I'd so take one or two. I looove hamsters. I still miss my little black Teddy bear, Humphrey. He was a sweetheart.


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## Imbrium (Dec 25, 2012)

well, the bad news is that the wheel hubs DO curve upward into the bottom of the bin, which is a potential chewing hazard ><

I got two of the bins anyway, though, because I bet I can fashion little hubs out of hardware cloth and bolt them over the wheel hubs to prevent hammies from chewing their way out.


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