# Tums?



## Hayley411

I was going to try giving Tums to my pregnant doe due tuesday and I am wondering ...how much should I give her... and how often.

~Hayley~


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## BlueCamasRabbitry

I was going to ask the same question, hehe. I don't remember how much....

Emily


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## Hayley411

How funny!


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## GoinBackToCali

I am prolly gonna get flogged for this..

But my does are so picky.. I put one of each of the multi flavor in front of them, they licked all of em, and only ate the ones they liked.. so they actually got like 2 a day of whatever flavor they preferred..


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## bunnybunbunb

Tums are used to make does go in labor so I don't advise giving it to her before her due date....


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## TinysMom

*bunnybunbunb wrote: *


> Tums are used to make does go in labor so I don't advise giving it to her before her due date....


I use Tums 3 days ahead of time (as I've seen on more than one website and heard from more than one breeder) to help my girls not go into a situation of calcium deficiency and having that drop. I start them on one Tums per day when I put in the nestbox.

This is one of the first ways I read about it....


[font="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"] About 3 days before birth we give her Tums (1 per day in 1/2 pieces) in order to supply extra calcium for labor and contractions. We use the berry flavored tums and they love them. You can also use spinach and other calcium rich foods instead.

http://www.welshrabbitry.com/birth.html
[/font]


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## GoinBackToCali

Geez..your kidding.. right?

Tums is one of the top things advised to help prevent Sudden Doe Death, from when their calcium levels drop to Dangerously low levels in their systems immediately during or after kindling.

Thats a known and proven fact, and is on several well known websites and well respected books. Where do you get your info?

Besides, if that was true.. my rabbits wouldn't have been 3 and 4 days overdue and Peg wouldn't have been sitting there with me on the phone telling me to stop harrassing my does for babies.. they don't know dates..

http://islandgems.net/medical.html

Go down to the *sudden doe death* link..

:foreheadsmack:


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## Hayley411

Okay thanks so I guess I'll start giving them to her tomarrow since she is due on tuesday or should I start today because her last two litters were a day early?

~Hayley~


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## BlueCamasRabbitry

I agree with Cali. I heard that they are for calcium, not that they make them go into labor...or am I reading this wrong? 

I am going to find the berry flavoured ones (in our tums jar) and give a quarter of half of one to Lily, or is that too little? How big do they have to be? 

Emily


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## bunnybunbunb

Not saying your wrong Cali. I have been told by quite a few breeders also that it makes the doe go in labor. If I have a doe over due I give them a tums and within a few hours they always have their babies. If I don't give them one it usely takes anotherday before they have them.

My does get veggies and fruits everyday along with their pellets and hay and I have only had 2 delivering problems so I think the fruits and veggies are working. 1 was my first Holland Lop, she died we think durring delivery. This was 5? years ago. Then I had a BEAUTIFUL Mini Rex doe that was give to me(my friend bought her and seen how much I liked her and he let me have her)! She had OMG awesome type, was just oversized. She had her babies 2 days early and didn't use the box, had4 dead babies on the wire. I felt one left in her so I brought her in. I had to help pull the last baby out(waited for contraction then pulled has easy but as firm as i could). It was huge. I believe she never had a litter andwas over a year so she is now a retired pet. She had them back in November and is STILL recoveringbut she has her buddy Ice(Frost's half sister) to keep her company. Ice found she could make a hole bigger in the divider of their cages and get through it xD Now she comes and goes from with Pumpkin. They seem to really like each other.

Good luck


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## ra7751

Just my non-professional opinion....but the thought of giving a rabbit an antacid is scary. There are many collateral issues that come to thought here. Unless there is something I don't know about, the only real thing an antacid will do is change the pH in the gut. If you need to induce labor, there are proven safe (relatively so anyway) to do that in a controlled situation. I've also seen some statements regarding calcium levels and being weak and lethargic after delivery...I don't think that calcium levels can vary that much that quickly. If so,I would think you have amajor dietary issue. I suspect what is really going on here with this particular issue is actually hypoglycemia. What is the basis or thinking on this "treatment". I am confused. I am really looking forward to exploring this idea further....very interesting.

Randy


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## BlueCamasRabbitry

Randy, what is hypoglycemia? I've never heard that about Tums (in rabbits, that is). I just knew that lots of breeders gave their does Tums or raspberry(s)/leaves a few days before the birth, because it helps with the birth and afterwards. I guess it'll need to be looked into more, though. I did a google search about it, and came up with just about nothing! Only 1 source and I didn't even waste my time seeing what it said, because I read the little "site preview" underneath...and it wasn't what I was looking for -exactly-. 

Emily


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## Lias_ark

*bunnybunbunb wrote: *


> Not saying your wrong Cali. I have been told by quite a few breeders also that it makes the doe go in labor. If I have a doe over due I give them a tums and within a few hours they always have their babies. If I don't give them one it usely takes anotherday before they have them.
> 
> My does get veggies and fruits everyday along with their pellets and hay and I have only had 2 delivering problems so I think the fruits and veggies are working. 1 was my first Holland Lop, she died we think durring delivery. This was 5? years ago. Then I had a BEAUTIFUL Mini Rex doe that was give to me(my friend bought her and seen how much I liked her and he let me have her)! She had OMG awesome type, was just oversized. She had her babies 2 days early and didn't use the box, had4 dead babies on the wire. I felt one left in her so I brought her in. I had to help pull the last baby out(waited for contraction then pulled has easy but as firm as i could). It was huge. I believe she never had a litter andwas over a year so she is now a retired pet. She had them back in November and is STILL recoveringbut she has her buddy Ice(Frost's half sister) to keep her company. Ice found she could make a hole bigger in the divider of their cages and get through it xD Now she comes and goes from with Pumpkin. They seem to really like each other.
> 
> Good luck


I only give my does a 1/2 a tums if they go off feed before they are do. I had 1 doe have seizures after giving birth. My vet said it was a calcium dwfwciancy. A breeder recommended a 1/2 a tums for my Hollands. The 1/2 tums worked she quit seizuring. Since then I give my does 1/2 atums if they go off feed before kindling.


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## TinysMom

*ra7751 wrote: *


> Just my non-professional opinion....but the thought of giving a rabbit an antacid is scary. There are many collateral issues that come to thought here. Unless there is something I don't know about, the only real thing an antacid will do is change the pH in the gut. If you need to induce labor, there are proven safe (relatively so anyway) to do that in a controlled situation. I've also seen some statements regarding calcium levels and being weak and lethargic after delivery...I don't think that calcium levels can vary that much that quickly. If so,I would think you have amajor dietary issue. I suspect what is really going on here with this particular issue is actually hypoglycemia. What is the basis or thinking on this "treatment". I am confused. I am really looking forward to exploring this idea further....very interesting.
> 
> Randy


Randy,

I'm glad to see you joining in on this subject because I'd really like to hear your input.

I have not always given tums to rabbits - I've probably used it around 70% of the time - I've never seen any ill results from it but I can't guarantee I've had great results either.

I didn't use it for my first several litters because I'd never heard about it. Then a dear friend of mine in WA state almost lost a doe and litter from what we think was calcium dropping.

I tried to go back and find messages from her and this is the only one I could find right off - she is answering another breeder's question and adding to the discussion about a doe that had issues...

Please understand - what I'm sharing here is one person's experience...and I remember her posts the night she went through this (I just can't find them right off - this message is from Dec. of 2006). She isn't a vet....but what she did do - saved her rabbit's life (and the lives of the babies)....supposedly.

 Wow Kate, that is horrible. I had the same thing happen with --- ------. I caught it as she was bouncing off her cage and I gave her a calcium tab ground up in about 3 tablespoons of milk with baby spinach....anything I could think of that had calcium. Then I syringed it down her throat every minute or so while I emailed the group. Luckily in one hour she pulled out of it and that night she had 6 healthy babies. I had just read about eclampsia earlier in the week because of a mare that was going to foal. So when I saw the rabbit doing her shaking and what looked like tremors I thought of Eclamsia. Its one of the reasons for sudden doe death. One week before the due date give a calcium pill ground up in their water. calcium (I heard) also helps them to have stronger contractions so that kits might not get stuck


Once again - my friend is NOT a vet - but after she shared this - I read a bit more about tums from various breeders, etc. and decided to use them - one per day from when I put the nestbox in on till delivery. 

Most of my does will eat them - some won't. Those that won't - I don't force the issue.

I wish I knew more about the whole calcium deficiency thing and preeclampsia...if it is related or whatever. I just remember my friend freaking at the thought she was going to lose one of her favorite does - and then suddenly - the doe got better and was able to give birth.

You mention hypoglycemia too - could that cause seizure-like symptoms? I know when my blood sugar drops - I get the shakes...

Peg


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## TinysMom

I found another message - this is the one my friend was responding to. 

[line] Hey guys , I wanted to update you all on what happened
last night with our lovely sweet doe, Holly.

First of all, i wanted to thank those who responded to
the request for help, I actually didn't get it until
just now, as we've been at the vets all night since
shortly after I posted.

I called my vet, he had me give her Tums (thanks Peg,
for the articles, now, after the fact, it makes sense)
and go to his house to meet him.

The reason I was so concerned when I wrote everyone is
that she wasn't listless or anything, she was numb,
glazed eyes grinding her teeth, she was sweating (yes,
they do sweat), and she couldn't stand up to save her
life. However, when I touched her to see if she had
any response, she bounced off the walls of her cage.
I also wrote because her front legs wouldn't work,
they were stiff and the paws were turned under, and
she couldn't stand on them or keep her balance....

When we got to the vet (no easy task, 18month old
baby, 11 year old boy and husband on travel), the
Larry said that she was calcium deficient to start,
but that should have been fixed by the administration
of the Tums....the nerve damage he suspected in her
feet was the worst thing that we couldnt' figure
out...

I told him I thought that a kit might be stuck, after
20 minutes, indeed there was one stuck, she didn't
have enough lubrication to get it out...finally after
we got that one out, the rest of the kits came, 6 in
all. sadly none of them survived, we warmed them and
rubbed them and stimulated them to no avail....

In the meantime, Holly was not reacting well, he gave
her IV Ringer's solution and Vitamin B complex via the
IV, after about an hour or so, she started to perk up.
With one exception, her front feet still didn't
work....

After a few more hours with no change, he sent us home
with her and her IV and more Vitamin B and a calcium
additive for the IV. We got home and I crashed for a
few hours.

She is on antibiotics, the IV and bran/oatmeal mash to
try to get her to eat....he's also been having me put
a drop of corn syrup on her tongue every few hours to
make sure her weaken state make her have a
hypoglycemic reaction and crash.....

He thinks while she was in her calcium deprived state,
she may have crashed into the cage wall a few times
and given herself nerve damage, and he truly thinks
she will recover in a few weeks to a month or
so....We're going to see, but I cannot have her suffer
either, so, we'll keep our fingers crossed for her...

The up side is, other than losing the babies and not
having her front feet work, she seems to be almost
100% normal this morning.....she wanted one of her
cookies about 30 minutes ago...and she's still a bit
dazed and confused, I don't think she really knew she
wasn't in her cage until this morning when she bolted
uprght and lost her balance. 

[line]
Update on Holly:

The day after this was posted - she had two more kits (also dead)....and the day after that - she was back to normal.....

Peg


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