# Zeus has really coarse fur - not soft like it used to be



## TinysMom (Oct 12, 2008)

I know that I might sound paranoid - but in this case - I think better to be paranoid than to be not concerned at all.

Before Tiny passed away - he went through a bad molt and for a few weeks before he passed away - his fur was not as soft as it used to be. I didn't realize that it could be a clue that he was ill. 

Zeus has been shaking his ears a bit so I had Robin bring him in to me tonight so I could give him some ivermectin (I did see what looked like the start of some mites in his ears - way down deep). 

In treating him - and grooming him a bit - I noticed that his fur was coarse - not soft like it used to be. In fact, it was partly due to his fur being so soft on Purina that I switched to Purina. (I also switched because Purina was lower in calcium than what I'd been using and Tiny died from bladder sludge which can come from high calcium levels from what I've heard).

The only thing I can think of is.....Art has been watering him and NOT using bottled water (which I had been using). I'm going to switch him back to the bottled water ASAP...and then check his fur again in a week or so. 

We used bottled water because we suspected that maybe there was a lot of calcium in the water that made Tiny sick....along with the extra calcium in the food. (We especially suspected this when George went to Zin's and had bladder sludge show up after a couple of weeks there).

Anyway - here are my questions for those who are on Etherbun or who have experience with this.

What could be causing his fur to be so coarse? All of the other bunnies have very very soft fur since I've switched them over. In addition to his Purina and oatmeal that gets mixed in - he gets banana almost every day, lettuce, carrots and I forget what all else....he has hay in the garage too.

I'm wondering if he has some other illness starting to go on in his body - but it isn't yet at the point where there are symptoms showing up...and that scares me to death.

HELP?

I must admit - I am considering putting him on Pen G shots every other day for about 10 shots - just to deal with any hidden infection that might be going on...


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## Maureen Las (Oct 12, 2008)

Hi Peg

I can understand that you would be concerned about Zeus's hair but , to be honest , although nutritional deficiencies can affect the coat I really don't know that to be a symptom of some infection or other problem.

I think that it is good to bring him in and treat him for mites but I wouldn't overworry about this as it just may be a reaction to having gone through something similar with Tiny. 
I have never heard that a coarse coat is a symtom of anything fatal so try to relax at least until someone else posts otherwise.


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## TinysMom (Oct 13, 2008)

I guess my concern is that when I've had rabbits before that had infections...their fur was more coarse (now that I think about it).

I remember when Phoenix was ill - after his second Pen G shot - his fur started getting soft again (he was getting better as far as his infection too). That is why in my mind "coarse fur = possible problem".

I'm going to put him on the bottled water again and check him in 3-4 days...if I don't see improvement then I will do something.

I will say that there is no sign of any bladder sludge....which is a relief. 

But it bothers me that his fur is getting so bad when everyone else's is getting so much better. It is really a very noticeable difference.

I may try to do some reading on deficiencies in food to see if maybe he needs to have something added to his food....but his fur was just sooo sooo soft. Not rex rabbit type soft - but close to it.


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## Maureen Las (Oct 13, 2008)

I know that you know your rabbits !!
so at some point you have to trust your instincts and previous experiences. 

I know that I am like that so just give it a few days and then do what you feel is best....


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## JadeIcing (Oct 13, 2008)

I think my concern is if it isn't the case could using the pen gcause him to become resistant if he needs it later.


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 13, 2008)

Tony's hair goes really coarse before he molts out. Maybe Zeusy is getting ready to blow his coat?


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## TinysMom (Oct 13, 2008)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> Tony's hair goes really coarse before he molts out. Maybe Zeusy is getting ready to blow his coat?


After grooming some rabbits this weekend - I suppose it could be that. Harry's fur is really coarse - except for the new fur which is coming in really really soft.

I'm going to make sure he stays on bottled water and check his fur again in about a week or so and see what is up.

I know I'm probably being paranoid but I've had vets tell me before (about dogs and cats) that many times you can tell their really healthy by the condition of the fur....I think I had a rabbit judge tell me that once too at a show.

I would take him to the vet but what would I say? (Uh...his coat is coarse so something must be going on - let's do all sorts of tests??)

A number of the rabbits here are blowing their coats (just started in the last few days - talk about the fur flying!) and so I'm seeing some more coarse fur than usual....but still yet - they tend to have softer fur growing in...Zeus doesn't have any softer fur growing in..

:?


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## dquesnel (Oct 13, 2008)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> I know I'm probably being paranoid but I've had vets tell me before (about dogs and cats) that many times you can tell their really healthy by the condition of the fur....I think I had a rabbit judge tell me that once too at a show.



I absolutely believe that if the fur/skin has suddenly changed from its norm (suddenly meaning 1 month or less) it _could_ indicate a health problem. Even with humans, the primary cause of skin conditions like acne and eczema are diet/allergy related, and in some cases something more serious. The skin is an organ that excretes toxins, so anything rooted within it (hair or fur) can become a sign that something is a bit off. 

I don't think I would panic with Zeus yet, and as Maureen said trust your instincts and previous experiences. I have one bun that at the very end of summer will completely blow his coat to the point of getting thin in places- the new fur will grow in very soft but the next layer of fur (about one month later) will be coarser. I contribute it to the weather- he does it year after year at the same time unless I turn the room heater on early.


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 13, 2008)

Tony's softer fur is weird..... you can't find it and then one day POOF it's there. 

Bo gets the rougher fur but then I can see the patchy new stuff under it - so cute like babies getting their fur. 

I'd do all the precautions also, honestly. I am like that. Better to be safer. 

On a side note, could you get him some black oil sunflower seeds and feed him a couple a day? that oil would possibly help the fur as well. It could be a folicle issue like ..... needing moisture?


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## BlueGiants (Oct 13, 2008)

The Flemish really do get a dry, course coat before they shed it out. A number of my whites look like that right now. The bottled water may help, but it may not show for several weeks.

Lots of brushing and grooming may help him lose the rough stuff and grow in a softer coat. He knows winter is coming, days are shorter, nights are cooler. He may just be getting ready. I agree with Pennie, a few sunflower seeds might help him along. The oil is very good for their skin and fur. (Our Flemish started getting sunflower seeds with their evening meals 2 weeks ago.) Look to see if new (shorter) fur is growing in closer to the skin. 

How is his weight? Any weight loss? Is he eating normally? Droppings look good? Look for more than one symptom. And keep up the roughage, lots of good hay to keep things moving. (And watch out for the girls that might be grooming him.)


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## TinysMom (Oct 13, 2008)

Thanks folks....I probably was foolish to get so panicked. 

He seems to be eating good - he's as active as usual and his poops look normal.

I tried brushing him out and he nipped me. I continued to brush him and he BIT me. He's harder to control than Tiny was - probably because I've let him have his way for so long.

The hay is in the garage where he can pull it out and get to it on his own - in addition - he has some put down for him and the girls. I am thinking about buying him some hay at Walmart (the small bags) just to see if having a different flavor will entice him to eat a bit more. He's not a big hay eater.

I guess I'm just gonna have to be the "big kahuna bunny" as Buck Jones would say - show him that I'm the boss (and wear gloves) and make him let me brush him out. I can make the lionheads let me brush them - but for some reason - its like I'm afraid of offending him and I want him to love me - so I give in to him. 

I'll try to get him some sunflower seeds tomorrow....hope he likes them.


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## Elf Mommy (Oct 13, 2008)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> I guess I'm just gonna have to be the "big kahuna bunny" as Buck Jones would say - show him that I'm the boss (and wear gloves) and make him let me brush him out. I can make the lionheads let me brush them - but for some reason - its like I'm afraid of offending him and I want him to love me - so I give in to him.



Time for some TOUGH LOVE!!!  You can do it! Some furkids just need a strong hand now and then 

Minda


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## BlueGiants (Oct 13, 2008)

What he will do is respect you for being the strong "big kahuna". After respect comes love.


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## Raspberry82 (Oct 14, 2008)

Hi TinysMom . So sorry you're worried about your baby!

Here are my thoughts on this:

1. Do you use only filtered water? has Zeus been given tap water recently instead by accident? Tap water is high in chlorine (set at human levels, which for bunnies is too high! Chlorine is also dehydrating). Tap water also usually contains flouride which is not at safe levels for pets or bunnies either as well as pollutants. I use only filtered water for Max via a bowl that is washed a filled every other day. His fur has always been soft.

2. Can you call your vet to get their opinion on if this has happened with any other buns in their care and why? 

3. I know my own hair gets brittle and drier/rougher due to these: a) not enough hydration, b) not enough vitamins/minerals, c) not enough essential fatty acids/omegas (don't know how this one translates to bunnies), and d) if I use chlorinated water, either drinking it or showering with it.


hope this helps!!!


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## Raspberry82 (Oct 14, 2008)

Being the big kahuna bunny is tough! lol . But in the end they love you more for the it imo! Max used to chomp and bite about being brushed and heald, and I wouldn't let him get away with it. Tough love does win in the end I think . He loves them now and begs to be "picked up".


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## TinysMom (Oct 15, 2008)

*Raspberry82 wrote: *


> Hi TinysMom . So sorry you're worried about your baby!
> 
> Here are my thoughts on this:
> 
> ...


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## TinysMom (Oct 15, 2008)

Man - he practically took my hand off to get the sunflower seeds (my lionheads used to not eat them so I stopped adding them to the food sometimes). 

How many are safe to give him? (Don't tell me two or three - I think I'll cry and he will too).

Also - should I start giving the sunflower seeds to the rabbits that are moulting or about to moult? 

Oh - and Miss Bea turned up her nose at them and stomped off....


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## JimD (Oct 15, 2008)

Hi Peg,

How's Zeus doing today?

Fur condition has always been a "red flag" when dealing with my Chippy's issues.
Every time she would start to slip, her coat would start to look and feel "rough".
With her I think it was a hydration signal.

All of my buns are shedding/molting, but it's a lot more evident with the black ones.
Tootsie, Mooshuand Benji have black coats with grey roots (right term??) so they all look pretty scruffy. They all HATE to be brushed, and their fur is so thick that it needs to be back-brushed to do a good job....especially the tushies.
Tootsie's fur is very "rexy-like"

I use bottled water. 
I've had buns stop drinking tap water when odor of the added chemicals got too strong.

Black sunflower seeds keep all my buns coats shinier and softer.
They all get a few with supper....not too many or they get soft poops sometimes.

Which Purina are you using?
I was always happy with the Complete Blend (green bag)
Buck used the Advanced Nutrition Show Formula (blue bag) and was always satisfied with it.


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## JimD (Oct 15, 2008)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> Man - he practically took my hand off to get the sunflower seeds (my lionheads used to not eat them so I stopped adding them to the food sometimes).
> 
> How many are safe to give him? (Don't tell me two or three - I think I'll cry and he will too).


I would start off with just a few to see how his system reacts (Brindle and Smore get soft poops from them so they only get 3 or 4).
Tootsie gets about 10 with supper.


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## BlueGiants (Oct 15, 2008)

As long as it doesn't seem to be bothering him in any way, I give my Flemish1/2 teaspoon every day during the winter months. (It's about 10-12 seeds, with the small sunflower seeds that I get here.) 

LOL! I thought he'd really like them!


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## TinysMom (Oct 15, 2008)

*JimD wrote: *


> Hi Peg,
> 
> How's Zeus doing today?
> *
> ...


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## TinysMom (Oct 15, 2008)

*BlueGiants wrote: *


> LOL! I thought he'd really like them!


He almost took a chunk out of me - he loved them so much. When I was done - he stood up and was digging at my pants trying to get me to give him more.

I'm glad I didn't use my cranberry shower gel today - I would've never gotten out of the garage with the mood he was in...


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 15, 2008)

Tell Zeus I'm glad he likes the seeds! Bo and Clover LOVE them but they only get a couple here and there cause I don't want them to gain a bunch of weight.

Tony can be a booger about being brushed, Clover can too but Bo loves to be combed, brushed, plucked, whatever..... They all get brushed tho - it's the rules.

He'll come around and let you do it more once you start showing him it's a good thing. Give him a couple of seeds afterwards..... he'll associate brush time with goodies.


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## JimD (Oct 17, 2008)

How's Zues today?

Tootsie is really starting to look scraggly, and has major porcupine butt.
Tomorrow I'm going to try to brush out the terrible trio (Toots, Benji, and Moosh)....clip their nails too, if I survive the brushing.





*TinysMom wrote: *


> *Sometimes I add in some fruit loops *


Froot Loops have created two little bunny-monsters at my place!! Very demanding ones at that!!

I started to give Chippy a half of a Loop at bedtime. I thought a whole one might be too much sugar for her GI tract.
I didn't want to waste the other half so I would give it to Tootsie.
Now both of them will rattle and shake their cage doors every time I walk in, in an effort to pry more Loops outta me! Sometimes it works, but mostly results in a nose rub for the bun and a disapproving look for me.
***the other disapproving looks I get are from my kids when I tell them not to eat the bunny's Froot Loops***


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## TinysMom (Oct 17, 2008)

Zeus is looking sorta bad to me...let me show you some pics...

















I'm going to post more pictures of him in my blog later today....

The one redeeming thing that keeps me from freaking out - is that while his fur is still coarse- it is not as bad as it was before - its like the tips are coarse or something - AND - there is a nice big triangle behind his head where his fur is really really soft.

I brushed him and not much came out (not like I thought would come out if he was molting).

Right now he's pretty darn ticked at both Robin and I....he threw the oats around too and refused them (after he refused sunflower seeds).

He also got to see his former love Miss Bea and totally gave her the butt....so she gave him the butt too.

Oh well - I think he's trying to figure out what's gotten into me to make me suspect I am the boss...don't I know TIBBA is the real boss?

:shock:


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## slavetoabunny (Oct 17, 2008)

To me...it really looks like a molt. I don't think he looks all that bad. You should see my mini-rex during a bad molt!


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## BlueGiants (Oct 17, 2008)

I'm afraid I agree. It looks like a good heavy duty moult... I'll try to get photo's of Anastasia tomorrow morning. She looks awful!


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## Maureen Las (Oct 17, 2008)

I also agree that it looks like a moult..mine can really looke scruffy, rough and mangy when they moult :grumpy:


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## TinysMom (Oct 17, 2008)

Thanks everyone - I knew I was probably being paranoid -but Tiny looked like shortly before he died -and so I sorta freaked....especially since all of my lionheads have really really soft fur now that they're switched to Purina.


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## JadeIcing (Oct 18, 2008)

His fur looks like Elvis when he is in a heavy molt.


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## Leaf (Oct 18, 2008)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> The one redeeming thing that keeps me from freaking out - is that while his fur is still coarse- it is not as bad as it was before - its like the tips are coarse or something - AND - there is a nice big triangle behind his head where his fur is really really soft.



Peg, this really struck a cord with me because Aiden is doing the same thing. (for those who dont kknow, he's a flemish as well) His coat has been a *little* rough lately but he is developing some very soft, beautiful patches.

From this thread, I'm going to assume he's going througha moult also.


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 18, 2008)

Tony is having a heavy molt and looks like that. Both sides of his neck were almost like bristles so I combed him...... OMG he has 2 big patches of new hair under there! LOL! 

My whole house knows he's molting out! and I thought Bo was bad! :shock:


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