# HELP, PLEASE!



## LionheadLady (Sep 28, 2009)

I posted in the infirmery too... thought maybe if I post here some fellow show/breeders could help too... These are all show rabbits... 

Hi, 

I hope some one can help. I have a friend having problems with rabbits bloating & then passing away. She had them on Purina Show mix. Not sure what is going on... But they go off feed & water & then die. She has tried everything... We heard from a judge (we were at a show this weekend) that a toxin is going around... 

He says it's not contagious, it's a toxin.. and he said Comfy (MEDICATION) will work to save them right away. Does anyone know where we could get this? He said that 1 place had it & they do not & have not ever had it. We can not get in touch with him.

Any help to save our bunnies would be great! We are so sad that she has lost about 6 so far & a few more are not doing well at all!

PLEASE HELP!!


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## SilverBirchRabbitry (Sep 28, 2009)

I wish I could help you & your friend!
Losing bunnies is always sad.
Hopefully someone from your area can help you out!
I hope she doesn't lose anymore bunnies!


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## irishbunny (Sep 28, 2009)

Could she maybe take some of the dead rabbits into the vets or rabbits that are showing signs so that they can find out whats really causing the problem? That way she can safe the rest of her rabbits


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## SilverBirchRabbitry (Sep 28, 2009)

^ What Grace said?
I think that is actually the best idea


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## polly (Sep 28, 2009)

Might be an idea to get the feed tested I have heard of problems before I know Peg (Tinys mum) had problems but I think she is away for a bit. Pamnock would be worth pming to see if she has any advice I have no idea on the medication cause a lot of ours is different from yours over there.

I usually go to giving vegetables and douse them in water if I get cocci problems. is there dirhoea?? or are they just stopping.
Other thing is to keep their digestive system going get soem canned pumkin and some critical care to syringe them with.
good luck let us know how you are getting on


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## Starlight Rabbitry (Sep 29, 2009)

Are you sure they said Comfy and not Comfrey? Comfrey is a plant that is used as a digestive aid. 

Good luck and hopefully she will not lose anymore rabbits.

Sharon


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## bunnybunbunb (Sep 30, 2009)

I had troubles with a bad bag of feed. When I called Manna Pro they said I was the only one but I could send pellets in. Well I was to busy and did not get it it. Anyway, two weeks later I heard from a breeder that MANY people had started having rabbits die from Manna Pro SHO. Apparently Rat poisen got into a batch! HOW DO THEY MISS SOMETHING LIKE THAT??? I lost two rabbits, other people lost many more. I went right away and got a bag from a diffrent batch number and have had no problem so far.

I use to feed Purina and I never had luck with the rabbits. They would just drop dead here and there, not breed, stay thin even while feeding sometimes as much as a cup a day. I hate Purina foods.

I suggest getting a bag of a diffrent batch number, go off pellets for a few days, add in oats and go from there.


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## Bramblerose (Oct 1, 2009)

*bunnybunbunb wrote: *


> I had troubles with a bad bag of feed. When I called Manna Pro they said I was the only one but I could send pellets in. Well I was to busy and did not get it it. Anyway, two weeks later I heard from a breeder that MANY people had started having rabbits die from Manna Pro SHO. Apparently Rat poisen got into a batch! HOW DO THEY MISS SOMETHING LIKE THAT??? I lost two rabbits, other people lost many more. I went right away and got a bag from a diffrent batch number and have had no problem so far.
> 
> I use to feed Purina and I never had luck with the rabbits. They would just drop dead here and there, not breed, stay thin even while feeding sometimes as much as a cup a day. I hate Purina foods.
> 
> I suggest getting a bag of a diffrent batch number, go off pellets for a few days, add in oats and go from there.


I'd really appreciate some more info on this if you do not mind, I feed Manna Pro and have lost a lot of rabbits to bloat and mucoid in the last two months, some of them were older and should not have had a problem. TIA

Lion head Lady I just went thru this, its starts out like bloat and then can turn into mucoid, even in an older rabbit. We showed at two fairs in August, and thats when my problems started. Some rabbits would be fine one day, sick looking the next, and then dead by evening of the second day. Some would show signs of mucoid, not all though, all showed signs of bloat. I have a rabbit frozen in my freezer right now that I'm waiting to send for necropsy to try and figure out whats going on. I have a friend who lost most of her spring kits from something similiar, she's looking for answers also. I'll tell you what I did but its pretty labor intensive.

First thing I did was pull pellets and feed fresh foods and hay, raspberry leaves, mint, grass. Then I shot them with Banamine, rabbits in pain will not eat. I then wormed them with Pyrantel Pamoate and safeguard. I gave them Simethecone for gas relief, and used Albon, electrolytes and Oxytetracycline in their water. I syringed that down their throats six times a day. I also syringed pumpkin mixed with Nutrical. I gave them probiotics. I also started injecting them with sterile saline to hydrate them, not lactated ringers, because LR can be be tough on weakened kidneys. I worked all this out over the weeks that I dealt with this, and most of it came off of this site-

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/squirts.pdf

I know it sounds like a lot, somedays I was in the rabbitry all day long, and it seems like its too much to subject a little rabbit to but strangely enough its the ones that I did the most to that survived. You have to move fast, once they stop eating their gut shuts down and then they start to block up in their intestines, if you can feel hard shapes in their belly thats blocked intestines and you might as well put them down. Bellies need to be soft, even if bloated. Certain breeds did better than others, older they were the better, for the most part. In Silvers I lost 8 out of 9, fought like the devil for the last one, he was practically attached to my hip and he's doing very well. They were older babies also, 5 were 5 months old, 3 were 4 months old. Its crippled my Silver breeding program, I have to start all over again. Mini Rex I lost 2 out of 7, 1 was 2 months old, the other was a three year old adult BEW, BEW don't always have the greatest immune systems. The biggest loss was the Florida Whites, mainly because most were 6 weeks old and once they bloated I put them down because they looked so sick and I knew they would not make it. It also all started with the Florida Whites. lost 8 out of 10, and they died quickly, I do still have two left but the doe looks stunted and is recovering very slowly.

I've done everything I could to figure out where its coming from, I bleached cages, searched for mold sources, I didn't consider the food, and it just so happens that my friend feds Manna Pro also. I do know that 5-7 years ago manna Pro did have a problem and rabbits died. Now I'm wondering if it is a toxin.


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## LionheadLady (Oct 1, 2009)

We are from the Philadelphia area... George Long a judge & meat man has said this is going around here... They usually die within 3 days... He said that he had 55 meat rabbits bought in & 200 of them had the bloat & died in 3 days...

My friend was feeding purina show formula to her holland & mini lops & they are the ones sick... they were all also at shows... now, her english lops are on Purina Fibre 3 & they have been home & not at the shows & they are fine... so??? We are not sure what is going on... BUT, I keep hearing from people in NY & PA that this bloat is going around,. Getting scarey!!!



Thanks everyone for all of your help. I feel so badly for my friend that she has lost her dearly loved hollands! I for one will give her some of ours when she gets this all fixed to rebuild her herd. It is the least I can do to help her out.


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## Bramblerose (Oct 1, 2009)

George is a great guy and has been around forever, he judged at the Carbon County fair and was terrific with the kids. I just spoke to my friend who lost all of the babies this spring, she normally feeds the red bag of Manna Pro, she suddenly remembered that she had 2 bags of the Manna Pro Gro that she fed to her does and litters when she lost all those babies. I am using the Manna Pro Gro as well, and I fear that could be whats killing my rabbits. I'm going out to empty my feeders and I'm going to return the unopened bags, but I don't know what to switch to, perhaps Big Red made by Southern States. I'm so torn, and I don't want to lose any more rabbits. I'm taking the adult rabbit that died yesterday over to my friends house, she's going to open him up and look for obvious defects and problems, and I'm going to send the frozen rabbit out as soon as possible.

To the best of our knowledge at this point there has not been problems with the Manna Pro Red bag, but I'd like to hear from more folks that are having problems and what their feeding.

I'm so glad you posted this, this has been killing me, I haven't been sleeping at night, and I lost all my precious young Fawn Silvers, their like hens teeth, and its set me way back.


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## LionheadLady (Oct 1, 2009)

*LionheadLady wrote: *


> We are from the Philadelphia area... George Long a judge & meat man has said this is going around here... They usually die within 3 days... He said that he had 55 meat rabbits bought in & 200 of them had the bloat & died in 3 days...
> 
> My friend was feeding purina show formula to her holland & mini lops & they are the ones sick... they were all also at shows... now, her english lops are on Purina Fibre 3 & they have been home & not at the shows & they are fine... so??? We are not sure what is going on... BUT, I keep hearing from people in NY & PA that this bloat is going around,. Getting scarey!!!
> 
> ...



Opps he had 500 rabbits not 55!!! Been a long day already!


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## Bramblerose (Oct 1, 2009)

I spoke to our 4H leader, and got some more info on whats happening. It does appear to be feed related, problem is its not one particular feed, and she's been having problems since last August. Its random, hits a cage here a cage there, does not seem to be a contagious situation, I had unaffected rabbits in with ones that fell ill and their still kicking and doing well. One theory is that some big company that mixes additives for animal feeds mixed something for rabbits in a hopper that had been used for pig additives, one of which was an antibacterial med, so this was contaminated and sold to other companies that produce rabbit feed. Another was a change of formula that resulted in lower fiber food, that would make sense for some but I feed free choice hay and fresh forage not just pellets. All just theories, but the fact is that this appears to fairly widespread and so far there is no one 'safe' food. No ones talking a lot about it either, and no one seems to really know exactly whats wrong, it appears to be very elusive, and none of the feed companies are talking. Our leader gave me George Longs e-mail, I'm going to write him and see if he's heard anything, as he's so active in the fancy.

She also told me that they have had success with comfrey tea, and sulmet, but corid seems to work the best. Long term she didn't have any information for me, as they didn't keep the ones who recovered for fear that it was contagious. I'm scrambling, trying to figure out whats safe to feed. Also cleaning with ammonia instead of bleach seemed to be more effective, I don't know about that but I'm ready to try anything. If I pick up anymore info I'll post it here.


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## cafeduck1 (Oct 2, 2009)

There is a big discussion about this on the Showbunny yahoo group. They are trying to get a survey going to figure out exacting what is going on. It seems to be more in the eastern US. I have not heard about any here on the west coast.


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## bunnybunbunb (Oct 2, 2009)

I honestly do not know anymore. I had one rabbit fine one night, dying the next morning from bloat. Then one rabbit, a junior, started slowing down and having runs, two days later she was dead and then I have one other rabbit get ill but he made it. Everyone else was fine but 2 losses in a matter of 4 days of starting a new bag is a "DUH it's the food" moment.

I had been having it special ordered through our local feed store. After I got the bad bag I was trying to find a bag from somewhere from a diffrent batch. The other bag he had for me was the same batch so I had to go to tractor supply and get a bag. Since the bad bag I have had two bags from tractor supply and nothing so far.

Well... actually I just got in from the rabbits and one is dead - was acting fine lastnight at 10 PM. She was such a sweetie. I have one that is acting ill but she was getting better, this one has been fine. I hope it is not the food again, I have fed almost half the bag so it should not be the food.


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## Bramblerose (Oct 2, 2009)

The problem with mycotoxins is that they aren't always spread thruout the entire bag, thats why they suggest mixing the bag up before sending in a sample for testing. I did jump over and read the thread on the infirmary and then ordered the Biosponge and Metronidazole. I got the paste to try, my rabbits are pretty used to me putting paste into their mouths with a q tip and then washing it down with a syringe, so I'll give it a try. I'm also trying to locate some Vanodine, trying to cover all my bases, whether this is a rotavirus, clostridium, or a feed problem. I'm having a tough time finding Heinold feed, website seems to be down, so far I know of folks having problems on Manna Pro Gro or Sho, Purina and Southern States. I'll pop over to Show bunny and see whats up, I just can't lose anymore rabbits, its killing me. Sorry about your little girl Bunbun.


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## Blaze_Amita (Oct 2, 2009)

I'm going to watch this thread close. I mean I've been in Kentucky only a week and I brought over 100 pounds from NY with me, but I've been to Southern States, a Purina Dealer and one Neutrena dealer looking for the Naturewise(16%) and Preformance (18%) for my rabbits, but so far haven't found anything so I was thinking of switching them to something that they have local to here, Purina Rabbit or Big Red/ Southern States. After reading this, I don't think I will, I think I'll keep looking for my regular feed. I've had a slightly off batch before, I fed extra hay, alfalfa cubes and fresh greens from the garden to suppliment the slightly off feed and everyone was fine(actually enjoyed the extra Collard Greens from the garden!)
I am so sorry about everyone's buns, *Hugz for all* Hang in there, I'll see what I can get from contacts at local vets here

I had a rescue bunny JT's Heather(registered Mini Rex) that was bloated and I couldn't get her to eat enough fiber to work it through her system fast enough to save her, I ended up putting her down, but that was after 6 weeks of her slowly stopping eating pellets and then slowly eating less hay and drinking water, she was sick when I got her so I don't think it was the same thing. Vet said it wasn't contagious but there was nothing that could have been done other than what I was doing.


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## pamnock (Oct 5, 2009)

*cafeduck1 wrote: *


> There is a big discussion about this on the Showbunny yahoo group. They are trying to get a survey going to figure out exacting what is going on. It seems to be more in the eastern US. I have not heard about any here on the west coast.



A number of judges and big breeders on the east coast have lost major portions of their herds. Someone at a show over the weekend had mentioned that they heard it was rotavirus.

Pam


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## tonyshuman (Oct 5, 2009)

Be careful with that Dana Krempels article--although I usually like what she has to say, she recommends the use of a human anti-diarrheal (immodium) that I'm not 100% sold on. It can cause gut slowdown, which means that you'd have to dose it exactly right to slow the gut of a rabbit with diarrhea down and not cause a stasis event.

I wanted to add that there's a product called Biosponge that has been used very successfully in dogs and cats (and cottontail rabbits by our very own Randy). It's available over the counter and is found in horse formulations and dog/cat formulations. 

http://www.entirelypets.com/platbio15cc.html

It absorbs the toxins produced by bacteria or present in the food (such as mycotoxins). If this is a rotavirus, as Pam has heard, it could be causing a gut bacterial imbalance that leads to diarrhea and poisoning by bacterial toxins. A probiotic such as ProBios or Bene-Bac along with this Bio-Sponge to absorb toxins should be helpful.


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## Blaze_Amita (Oct 5, 2009)

Probios, like what my appy gelding gets for his colic sugery past? He gets a tablespoon every other day in his grain or daily if he's in active use. 
How would you measure something like that for a rabbit?


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## tonyshuman (Oct 6, 2009)

Yep, it's the same thing. If you have the powder, I'd do 1/2 tsp-1 tsp, and if it's the gel, I'd do up to an inch long.


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