# Selling culls and calling them 'Quality show rabbits'



## 4kr (Mar 8, 2011)

Forgive me, I'm just a little frustrated! Ok, we have been searching for months for Dwarf Hotots in our state and surrounding states. Were put on waiting lists, ect. Well a couple of weeks ago we contacted a breeder in Oklahoma who said she had Quality show stock for sale. So she says she will bring us the best two babies out of 3 litters and sends pictures and the rabbits don't look bad at all, the only catch is that she stated, "if I bring them you have to buy them". So I trust her and assume the rabbits are showable since she SAID they were quality show rabbits. I get them home and look at them and to be quite frank, they are CULLS, no doubt, pet quality animals compared to the standard. What really aggravates me is that I found out that the doe has a blue eye and one of the buck is growing out his eyebands. So Neither is showable like she stated. Now she is ignoring me and not answering, this just makes me so frustrated. Why sell pets to youth who want to learn about breeding/conformation in Show rabbits and who trusts that the breeder is honest. ugh. I just feel like I've been ripped off and starting back at square one....maybe this is a sign we need a different breed!!!


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## 4kr (Mar 8, 2011)

One other thing, I understand that breeders don't want to sell their best stock but what is a pet peeve of mine is that their are some that claim their culls are top show animals just to make some money!! ugh. Sorry, I needed to vent.


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## butsy (Mar 8, 2011)

what is a cull?


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## mitchellfoster (Mar 8, 2011)

An animal that doesn't fit the specifics of a particular breed, I'm assuming.


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## Nancy McClelland (Mar 8, 2011)

I think in "show" terms, a cull is one that would be DQ'ed because it doesn't conform to current standards. In past times, a "cull" was defective and was usually put down at birth to keep the gene pool cleaner.


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## TinysMom (Mar 8, 2011)

A cull will mean different things to different breeders. To some breeders who do not sell pet-quality - it is a rabbit that they will euthanize because it does not meet breed standards. We do not want to discuss that on this forum....so please - it is too painful for many people.

For other breeders - a "cull" is one that is removed from the herd and sold as a pet bunny (or given away).

But to "cull" basically means to remove it from the breeding lines because it is not good enough quality.


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## woahlookitsme (Mar 8, 2011)

OH NO! I am so sorry this happened to you!! Not all breeders are as heartless as that one trust me !!!
I will ask my judge friend mike franke if he knows anyone with some nice hotots for you! 

My red flag would have been if i bring the rabbits you have to buy them. 
When i was looking to get a britannia doe for rocky a lady i show with said she had a rew. I talked to her about her asked all the question and we found out this doe was almost turning a year and hadnt ever had a litter. It was a mistake to get a first time mom britannia because i had no clue what to expect and no wonder those rabbits are so rare the mothers are horrid. But I had one of my other bunny friends come with me who was more experienced and the lady told me if i didnt like the doe she would bring another black otter for me to look at and if they didnt have a litter that i could give her back and get my money. 

Like i said not all breeders are like that lady and again im so sorry this happened to you. Are you going to the houston livestock show? There are some DHs there


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## majorv (Mar 9, 2011)

I'm wondering if maybe you shouldn't complain to theOklahoma RBA about this breeder.Telling you that you have to buy without having looked at the rabbit in person is just wrong. Pictures don't always tell the whole story. Having the standard with you when you look at the rabbit mightbe helpful, too.


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## SNM (Mar 9, 2011)

Since we are new to this.. I don't like telling the breeder the faults in their animals and explaining why I no longer want that particular animal. I especially hate the ones that lie straight to my face as well. Really is sad that some breeders are like this.
4kr, you have the right to refuse the sell regardless of what she said beforehand. She said her culls were "show" quality then they should have been show quality and the rabbits should have no dq's and meet the standards. If you thought they were sick, had dq's, etc you should have told her NO sale. Take this as a learning experience and just don't ever deal with this individual again.
If you like, I will help you look for some other breeders.


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Mar 9, 2011)

She should have invited you over the look the rabbits over yourself. Not said you HAVE to buy them. I'm not great at determining some things with my rabbits. I could sell you a good Harlequin, but with my two lops, no. 

I've made mistakes buying rabbits site unseen. I'm stuck with a perfectly marked Harlie with bad teeth. Rescently wasted A LOT of money on an Elop doe with bad teeth. The breeder took her back so her name will never be mentioned.


When selling let them look the rabbit over and decide for themselves what is best. Or get to know other breeders and have them look your stock over.


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## 4kr (Mar 9, 2011)

Thank you for the replies everyone...by 'cull' I meant a rabbit that should not be shown or bred because of it's traits that are not up to standard. I'm not saying the rabbits should be killed or that I will kill them. No way, they would be great pets for sure. 
Anyway, I appreciate offers for help, I have tried for almost a year now to find quality stock and just may have to drive 20 hours round trip to get some. I just don't know if I could do that right now though, lol. But you're all right, it should have been a red flag about 'you have to buy them' bit. We just were SO Excited to Finally have the opportunity to have this breed after so many months of searching. It was a lesson learned for sure. 
She still is ignoring me and my attempts to contact her. She is on the DH national club's site as a breeder to contact and it irks me somewhat. I'll get over it I guess. ugh! I will have to post pictures of this show quality buck later this morning...poor lil guy he's got a polish head on a Himalayan body. LOL


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Mar 9, 2011)

http://www.adhrc.com/ADHRC Web5 Breeders.htm Thats the Hoto national site. There are 5 breeders from Texas on there. If I am correct Pam Nock on here, she is a monitor, she raises DH... and she may be able to help you out.


I found a VERY easy thing to do was find some breeders going to Nationals that are local and willing to transport. Then find breeders of your rabbit breed who will be there with stuff for sale. Pay ahead of time and have it delivered home. If its at Nationals then its pretty descent!


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## Tobi (Mar 9, 2011)

This has happened many time and I just can not understand why breeders do this.....in reality there is nothing you can do about it now. 
I as a breeder sell all my culls as pets and if I clam my rabbit is show quality it is and if the buyer shows it and there is a d/q I return the buyers money or replace the rabbit with one that is show quality. So sorry this has happened to you! I always tell everyone never buy a rabbit over a picture make sure you are able to put your hands on the animal and inspect it from tips of ears to tip of the animals tail! Do lots of research on the breed and the breeder. 

Good Luck!


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## elmerfudd (Mar 12, 2011)

Ouch! I'll take the bunny's side on this one. So you are in it for the money then. I'm in it to help the "culls" that are abused or unwanted. Currently housing about 15 "culls" and trust me - they are the lucky ones! Ever think about what you are doing and wonder if there's something wrong with it? No doubt this will start a huge screaming "blog" but I'm putting this message out in hopes that even one person might stop and think that exploiting rabbits is wrong. Please - somebody convince me that these rabbits are having a good life!:? No volunteers? Didn't think so.....


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## elmerfudd (Mar 12, 2011)

Oops! Just realized I shouldn't have posted an anti-breeding comment. Won't do that again, but now you have my opinion.


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## TinysMom (Mar 12, 2011)

*elmerfudd wrote: *


> Ouch! I'll take the bunny's side on this one. *So you are in it for the money *then. I'm in it to help the "culls" that are abused or unwanted. Currently housing about 15 "culls" and trust me - they are the lucky ones! Ever think about what you are doing and wonder if there's something wrong with it? No doubt this will start a huge screaming "blog" but I'm putting this message out in hopes that even one person might stop and think that exploiting rabbits is wrong. Please - somebody convince me that these rabbits are having a good life!:? No volunteers? Didn't think so.....


First of all - breeders do not usually "make" money breeding and anyone who thinks that is more than welcome to come help pay my feed bill. 

Most breeders are in it for the love of the rabbits and for the love of showing.

I would like to take a moment to remind everyone of our policy in the rabbitry area - I'll quote it below and then link to it.

*This forum is THE RABBITRY and a place for information involving breeds and breeding. 

If you are not a breeder, you don't support breeding and you have nothing of note to contribute to a thread beyond expressing an opinion on breeding, PLEASE DON'T POST. * *

Rabbitry Moderators and fellow breeders should be the ones overseeing and responding to these topics. They have the knowledge and the mandate. (Breeders don't post in the 'Rescue Me' forum with suggestions like 'why not buy a purebred from a breeder?' They deserve the same courtesy in their own area). * *

All members are welcome to express their opinions on posts outside the Rabbitry area although all members are also being asked to remember RabbitsOnline.net is designed to be totally non-judgmental and non-confrontational. PLEASE RESPECT THAT IN EVERY AREA! * *


sas * *:thanks:

*​You can find our policy here,


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## elmerfudd (Mar 12, 2011)

Yes - read the policy AFTER stating my opinion and immediately posted a second reply. It just upset me to read about culling etc. I have no plans to battle with you
but happy to hear that your bunnies are well treated. That's all that matters to me.


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## woahlookitsme (Mar 13, 2011)

*elmerfudd wrote: *


> Ouch! I'll take the bunny's side on this one. So you are in it for the money then. I'm in it to help the "culls" that are abused or unwanted. Currently housing about 15 "culls" and trust me - they are the lucky ones! Ever think about what you are doing and wonder if there's something wrong with it? No doubt this will start a huge screaming "blog" but I'm putting this message out in hopes that even one person might stop and think that exploiting rabbits is wrong. Please - somebody convince me that these rabbits are having a good life!:? No volunteers? Didn't think so.....



"First of all - breeders do not usually "make" money breeding and anyone who thinks that is more than welcome to come help pay my feed bill. 

Most breeders are in it for the love of the rabbits and for the love of showing."

I SECOND THIS!! I definately do not make money off of my rabbits and we do it for the love and as a hobby(this is not to be taken too superficially my rabbits are well taken care and i could tell each ones quirks by name!)

If you think we make money off these animals think about gas expenses to shows. Show entries, food, hotel, rabbit food, toys, cages, and thousands of hours spent dedicating ourselves to our furry family. 

I am not one to flame except when someone makes a comment like this. Sorry but I am no animal exploiter and I hope you open your mind to what breeders and exhibitors do for our rabbits. Why if it wasnt for us where would people get their awesome pets. (Disclaimer: Not all breeders are in it for the reasons we are and there are those who are around to make money off animals but i think it would be crazy to think anyone on here was doing it for the money. Those people just log onto craigslist and post an ad with little explanation of why they do what they do. But we get on here to help and educate? I disagree with everything you said)


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## majorv (Mar 14, 2011)

*woahlookitsme wrote: *


> *elmerfudd wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Ouch! I'll take the bunny's side on this one. So you are in it for the money then. I'm in it to help the "culls" that are abused or unwanted. Currently housing about 15 "culls" and trust me - they are the lucky ones! Ever think about what you are doing and wonder if there's something wrong with it? No doubt this will start a huge screaming "blog" but I'm putting this message out in hopes that even one person might stop and think that exploiting rabbits is wrong. Please - somebody convince me that these rabbits are having a good life!:? No volunteers? Didn't think so.....
> ...


You go, girl!!


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## Nela (Mar 14, 2011)

I think a big issue is misinterpretation of the word "cull". In this context, "cull" meant disqualified from show, and not "cull" as in should be killed for not being of quality. I can understand why some might cringe at the thought of culling but like I said, in this context, it meant not being good enough for show. I think Elmer got the wrong idea and got stuck on the word "cull" and might not have seen past it.

The original poster, 4kr, was upset about someone having sold her pet quality rabbits for show (I imagine for the price of show quality) which would be automatically disqualified at the show  4kr said: "Thank you for the replies everyone...by 'cull' I meant a rabbit that should not be shown or bred because of it's traits that are not up to standard. I'm not saying the rabbits should be killed or that I will kill them. No way, they would be great pets for sure.:-"

Either way, I am sure these rabbits will have a great home whether she decides to keep them herself or she decides to rehome them.


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## 4kr (Mar 14, 2011)

I am definetely NOT into breeding rabbits for money. You know why I breed and show? To preserve a breed that dates back generations ago. If someone doesn't keep the breed pure and strive for the standard we will lose them. I am sorry for using the word 'cull', should have said pet quality. I did not mean that I will kill the rabbits, I could never do that. In fact the buck I had is now a house rabbit with a good friend of mine. Sure I could breed him and make a bunch of pet babies that couldn't be shown and that would end up in shelters because they couldn't be re-homed, all because I wanted *cute* baby bunny rabbitsbut I chose NOT to do that because I am a breeder that strives for the standard.I'mnot sure where you got that my rabbits aren't taken careof but they are the loves of my life. Seriously, we have a heated and A/C barn and the rabbits are even taken in the house to stretch their legs a while. Trust me, my rabbits have a better life thansome pets. I just don't like being accused of something when you obviously don't have any facts to back it up.


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## TinysMom (Mar 14, 2011)

I think it is safe to say that we don't need to defend ourselves as breeders anymore. ElmerFudd has stated that they're happy to hear the bunnies are treated well and that's all that matters to them.

Time to move on ....


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## SNM (Mar 14, 2011)

Agree with 4kr... Some people just need to be a little bit more educated. Each rabbitry runs things differently. Different number of animals..different set up ..different schedules.I'm fairly sure most breeders breed for the development of their breed and will usually keep some of the litters. I'm sure the ones they don't keep find new homes.

Raising rabbits for show creates discipline and good understanding of what hard work can do for you in the long run. Especially with youth. My little sister was so lazy before we got our herd, the difference in work ethic between now and then is incredible.

People ask me all the time if I make a profit. Ummm no. Upkeep, food, cages goes right back into our rabbitry. It's a fun hobby and it looks cool on Resumes.  HEHE


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