# Can Harlequins throw torts?



## MelissaPenguin (Jul 31, 2011)

I have two purebred Harlequins and one kit out of 6 seems to be showing tort markings. Since I'm new to this, I thought I'd ask instead of just assuming and being wrong. I really want to learn as much as I can again rabbit genetics, so teach me! Can two purebred Harlequin parents throw torts? I can get a photo if you need it, but its only 4 days old so I don't know how well it'd show up.


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## lelanatty (Aug 1, 2011)

I have heard of a torted harlequin, so it might be possible, I don't know enough about harlequin genetics to know for sure. I know that there is at least one harlequin breeder here, and many others that have worked with harlequin genetics, TinysMom in particular might know more about this.


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## hillrise (Aug 1, 2011)

Yes, harlequins can throw torts.

Harlequins are aa..ej- (aa being solid/self, ej being the gene for japanese markings, and - being a wildcard that can be either ej again OR it can be "e", which would be the tort gene when paired up with aa).

Usually Harlequins carry that gene because one of their parents was either tort or orange/red (orange/red having Aa instead of aa, so they're agouti instead of self).


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## HappyFarmBunnies (Aug 2, 2011)

HillRise gave me an excellent, excellent lesson on harli's the other day, and she said that they can throw torts.


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Aug 2, 2011)

buttt, even though you can figure out what a torted one is, it's not beyond obvious either. I've really wanted to see your harlequins since you bought them.


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## MelissaPenguin (Aug 2, 2011)

This whole litter died =( But here are the parents, and the most recent photo I have before the babies all died.


I don't have any really good photos of the parents. I haven't gotten around to taking new photos since they've settled in. I think I'll go do that tonight. 








Momma





Momma two days before she kindled.





Babies at 4 days old. The 'tort' I was talking about it in the corner of the box. You can't really see it's head though, so don't think this photo would be any good for telling if it was really showing tort or not.





Momma is on the left, daddy in the back, and a baby from a previous litter is up front.





Photo of the kit from the previous litter and her litter. Is the baby in this photo a tort? Or just a off/dilute Harlequin?


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## hillrise (Aug 2, 2011)

Oh no! What happened? I agree, the one kit looks like a tort from that angle.


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## MelissaPenguin (Aug 3, 2011)

We think momma stopped feeding them? Not sure why :? We had to take the babies during the day because it's just too hot, so we'd leave them out all night... but I think she just decided she didn't want to feed them anymore


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Aug 3, 2011)

Did you leave the mother in with the other rabbits after she kindled? Having her in with them as long as you did, you're VERY lucky she did not hurt any of the others. I'm not trying to be mean, but if you're breeding, do NOT leave rabbits in together. The kit in the last picture is a blue jap. So one of the parents carry dilute.


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## HappyFarmBunnies (Aug 3, 2011)

The one baby does look like a tort. A nice shiny one too. Sorry you lost the whole litters; that's unusual after 4 days already. Sad. Nice that one of them carries blue though; more variety!


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## hillrise (Aug 3, 2011)

Both would have to carry dilute for the kit to show up as dilute.

You should get some great colors in the future!


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## MelissaPenguin (Aug 3, 2011)

No momma was in her own cage away from all the other rabbits for her last week of pregnancy and after she kindled she was let out for a little bit during the day while the babies were inside, and back in at night with her babies. We thought the babies were doing okay since they made it to 5 days old before they all died. It still puzzles me. But looking back at this litter, and Sparkles litter who was only 3 days older, even though they should be able the same size when full grown, the Harlequins were only about a 3rd of the size of the other babies... Could that have anything to do with it? Or was that just the way they were supposed to grow? (Different breed, different growth pattern kinda thing?)


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Aug 3, 2011)

what is sparkles?

and I just questioned since you said under the pic, it was 2 days before she had them.

I would think it to be something else if they made it to 5 days old.


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## MelissaPenguin (Aug 3, 2011)

Sparkles is a Mini/Rex mix. She's about twice as large as my Mini Rex, but still throws "Minis" with about half her kits that we've had.


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Aug 4, 2011)

the harlies should average 8.5 pounds and it'll depend on the lines how fast they grow and other things. 

since I just thought of it, did you have the babies outside? and assuming you are having the heat wave we are having...if so, they could have all died of the heat. They stay piled up as babies, and thus get overheated fast in this weather.


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## hillrise (Aug 4, 2011)

I had a litter die from heat stroke their first day, myself...

I have noticed that some of the larger breeds do put out rather small kits (my Californians and especially the New Zealands were much smaller than I remember getting out of my mini-rex crosses (although they were larger rabbits, about 7-8 lbs and the only reason I know they were mini rex crosses is because I got rex-furred kits and peanuts on occasion). I really don't worry about the size of the kits at birth unless they appear to be a peanut (which is REALLY unlikely with harlis, unless they've been crossed with something).


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## MelissaPenguin (Aug 4, 2011)

Like I've said before in this post P) the babies are brought inside during the day, brought in about 8am when it's starting to get warm outside, and taken back out to mommas just before sundown.

I've had babies die the first day from the heat, and since then I have started bringing them inside during the day. The other litter we have right now seems to be doing just fine with this, but their mother is used to the babies being messed with when they are really young. I don't know what this mother is used to since this is her first litter with us.

I know when we picked her us she was in a similar set up that we have. A large fenced pen area with chicken wire on the floor, but she had pulled up the chicken wire and dug herself a burrow. I don't know if she had her last kits in the burrow or if it was something new, I didn't think to ask what her breeding schedule was or how the owner's took care of the kits. I assumed they were used to being handled at an early age since I noticed several small children running around in the back yard as well.


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Aug 4, 2011)

you touching and handling them really shouldn't have effected them. I mean if they were eaten, thennnnn I owuld assume that, but if they just slowly died, I wouldn't think it was an issue that way.


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## MelissaPenguin (Aug 4, 2011)

I guess the only thing we can do is wait a while and try again? :?


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