# Implications of syphillis for pregnant doe



## Sabine (Apr 21, 2010)

I was considering putting this in the infirmary but as I have done a good bit of reading up on syphillis in rabbits I would like to find out what the implications would be for the litter.
Ember seemed to show some minor lesions after the mating (which I overdid). They scabbed over and the redness disappeared largely. As it wasn't getting worse and at that stage I couldn't undo the breeding I just kept an eye on it.
Now the other girl, Pearl, who was mated around the same time seems to show a minuscule ulceration on her vulva. I checked Ember too and she still has some minor scabs. Both are due in the next few days and I am beginning to worry that they may have syphilis after all.
I checked the buck they were mated with and I can't detect anything abnormal. Ember is a proven doe though and she was mated a few days before I got her (there was no litter). They are all from the same breeder. 
As the lesions are really minor I am still hoping that it is something else as I expect treatment in pregnancy or while nursing is a bad idea.
I have an appointment at the vets tomorrow. If syphilis is diagnosed what are the implications. When can the does be treated and do I need to treat all the youngsters whether they display symptoms or not.
Should the buck be treated too although I don't think he was the initial carrier. I also have a young buck who has never been in contact with the others but comes from the same rabbitry. If anyone has experienced this situation in their rabbitry I would love to hear how they dealt with it.


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## Snowballbun (Apr 21, 2010)

I don't have a rabbitry, but I obtained a healthy looking baby bun from a pet store when she was 5 weeks old. The owner, who I know has a good breeder that he uses. A couple of months later she showed signs of being sick and was eventually diagnosed with syphilis. The most likely way she got this is from being passed on at birth, and it was in her system but didn't show symptoms right away. She hasn't been around any other rabbits except for babies when the breeder was selling them.

I don't know the implications of treating all the rabbits that you have, but if you're sure the mom has it, I would say the babies should eventually be treated too. They may have contracted it from the mom and just don't show any signs. Probably the buns who have had sexual contact as well, because it's transmitted sexually as well.


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## pamnock (Apr 21, 2010)

I would treat the does before they have the litters. The kits willbe at more risk if you tried to treat them at a young age after birth and may also develop serious health problems from the disease. The buck should also be treated.

Syphilis is a disease that goes through a number of stages and manifests itself with a variety of symptoms. It travels through the circulatory system and can infect all body systems including the brain. Each stage of syphilis does not always show symptoms.

A blood test can be performed to detect antibodies or smears from the sores can be looked at under the microscope for live bacteria.


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## Sabine (Apr 21, 2010)

One doe is due today and the other one in a few days. Is it wise to start any treatment now should syphilis be diagnosed?


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## pamnock (Apr 21, 2010)

Although personally I would go ahead and treat ASAP, there is a risk to using penicillin, so I would advise that you proceed under the guidance of a veterinarian.


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Apr 21, 2010)

Vent disease can be spread quickly in a herd through sexual transmission. So I would treat all 3 rabbits, even if only two are showing symptoms.

VD can cause miscarriages and stillborn kits, so it's best to treat as early on as possible. I believe you can use Penicillin injections to get rid of it, but I'm not sure of the dosage.


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## Sabine (Apr 21, 2010)

Can a blood test at around six weeks or so determine whether the kits have contracted syphilis from the mother?


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## pamnock (Apr 21, 2010)

I wouldn't bother to go through the expense of testing the kits. Test one rabbit - treat all others that have been exposed.


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## Snowballbun (Apr 22, 2010)

We went through the symptoms of my rabbit and the vet didn't test for syphilis. They said the skin scrapings are painful and it's better to treat then to do tests. Although my vet offered me blood tests for other diseases, I don't think they offered a blood test for syphilis, but rather the scraping which we did not do. Any kind of blood test can show that the rabbit is a carrier, but not necessarily infected with the disease. I went to a rabbit savvy vet for this as it was difficult to diagnose, but the Pen G (penicillin) shots have worked.

We also gave my rabbit benebac, a probiotic while being on antibiotic treatments. 

With my baby rabbit, there were no symptoms until about 3 months of age, which manifested itself starting with an eye infection. Symptoms eventually included swollen and scabbed genitals and under the nose, and also sneezing. The persistent sneezing actually started before we noticed any scabs. 

Pamnock: How does syphilis affect the brain? From what I understood this is a highly treatable disease? Unlike pasteurella. However, I know it is important to treat.


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## pamnock (Apr 22, 2010)

*Snowballbun wrote: *


> Pamnock: How does syphilis affect the brain? From what I understood this is a highly treatable disease? Unlike pasteurella. However, I know it is important to treat.




Syphilis (vent disease) is a bacterial infection that can destroy tissue and nerves of the brain resulting in vaired signs including death. Syphilis can spread throughout the entire body and damage all systems in the tertiary stage. (This is generally rare, but still a concern)


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## Sabine (Apr 22, 2010)

I went to the vets today and basically I didn't get any answers. The pests from the scrapings can't be done in Irish laboratories for a start.
Penicillin isn't licensed for rabbit and the vet has neither experience with or much knowledge of the disease and how it would affect the unborn litter.
Basically all I can do is to wait and see if the signs become more definitely like syphilis and then treat.


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## pamnock (Apr 22, 2010)

Unfortunately, the disease may go into a latent stage when no signs are evident. I would make sure that none of these rabbits are used for breeding until properly treated. It's unfortunate that you wasted you time at the vet - he could have easily done a scraping of a chancre and observed the bacteria under the microscope, even if not able to do a blood test.

Here in the US, most of the medicines we use for rabbits are not labeled for use in rabbits.


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## Sabine (Apr 22, 2010)

From what I understood neither she nor the laboratory have the facilities to examine the scrapings properly. Apparently there is also only one exotic specialist in Ireland


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## naturestee (Apr 22, 2010)

I just thought I'd add in my experience- I fostered a doe and her two litters for the local shelter. The doe did not show symptoms of syphilis, neither did the other 5 or so mixed gender rabbits she had been living with. But one baby in the first litter and two in the second had symptoms of syphilis including very, very swollen genitals. I ended up needing to treat babies as young as two weeks old plus the nursing mom and I had the shelter treat the other adults. My babies did not have adverse reactions although my vet wasn't terribly happy about having to give penicillin to such young babies.

The one baby I've been able to keep track of (Myheart's Zappa) is doing great at 1.5 years. The mom did get head tilt almost a year afterwards but I doubt it's related. 

FYI, if there are sores on their noses they could possible transmit the bacteria by touching noses with other buns through wire cage walls. I'd keep all exposed rabbits in a strict quarantine until after treatment is done. Since the does are due really soon it won't help to start treating them now. They would just get reinfected from their babies. Maybe if moms and babies aren't doing too bad you could hold off on treating them for a few weeks when the babies will be stronger?


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## MyRabbits (Apr 22, 2010)

At our old vet, a three from a litter of kits more than a year ago had serious eye infections that weren't going away with the usual antibiotics so we treated those kits with Penicillin G injections, three injections over a two week period. Those rabbits grew up without any problems. 

I currently have a doe who has syphilis and is being treated again with Penicillin G, three injections over two weeks. All the rabbits who have been in contact with her and the rabbits from her most recent litter, just 3 months old, are being treated as well.

The doe also had coccidiosis and has been taking Albon. Either the Albon or the Penicillin G has suppressed her appetite, but giving her Benebac has appeared to help with that.

Anyway, I would not breed any of the kits until they have all been treated as this can be passed on at birth. I would not fear using the Penicillin G. My vet told me that the doses used to treat rabbit syphilis are negligible compared to the doses used to treat such problems as abscesses. Dosage is based on weight.


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## Sabine (Apr 22, 2010)

My vet just rang me back. She got hold of the exotic vet and basically she had to look up all the information herself The Exotic vet recommended starting treat ment as soon as the babies are born. I am just wondering now: Could they not get reinfected by their offspring?


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