# First time bunny owner. Any help appreciated.



## Space Monkey (Aug 1, 2021)

I'm a first time bunny owner. I've dealt with dogs and cats all my life, and shockingly to some, rats. I've probably had a dozen rats since I was a teenager, but none currently. In researching and buying supplies for our bunny, and learning at least a little bit about them, they're surprisingly similar pets, but different enough that I'm requiring more information from knowledgeable owners.

So we were at the State Fair a couple of days ago and walked into the bunny barn. My kids were interacting with the all the bunnies, and then the oldest noticed that some were for sale. That led to 4 smiling, wide eyed, begging kids. Of course I said yes because I'm the cool dad and I like animals too.

What I noticed:

The bunnies that were for sale were not as domesticated and people friendly as the not for sale bunnies. They were all a bit timid and backed away into a corner of their (heartbreakingly) tiny, dirty cages. They also didn't have fans blowing on them like the favored show bunnies did. I realized that these bunnies were probably not of show quality, were worked with very little, not treated well, and were living dollars.

The bunny we settled on is a female Mini Satin 4 months of age. She did have a pedigree, which was given to me. We weren't able to take her home the night we bought her because all bunnies had to stay until the following day when Best in Show was over with. That was yesterday. She was brought home yesterday evening. My fiance went to pick her up while I stayed to build her home and prepare her area.

I did a ton of research the night we bought her after we got home.

We bought her this home:



https://www.petsmart.com/small-pet/cages-habitats-and-hutches/cages/all-living-things-rabbit-home-and-play-pen-habitat-5289556.html



For bedding I wanted to use a cotton blanket or towel or something of that nature and litter box train, but our home is all carpet except for the kitchen. We don't know where to begin with the litter box training and we don't want poop everywhere in the meantime until we figure out how to get it started, so for now we're using Aspen bedding.

We bought her Timothy Hay and Orchard Hay and mixed it all up to put in her hay rack. We also bought Alfalfa pellets since she's still young to feed her 1/8 of a cup per day. Here's the thing though. She's not really eating much hay at all, opting for the pellets, which is all she had in her original small cage at the fair. I don't know what kind of feed they were giving her exactly, but it looked more like you would expect bird seed to look. She won't eat her leafy greens at all. We tried to entice her with a grape and a strawberry to see if she would eat that, but she stuck her nose up at those too, again opting for the pellets. Now she IS eating. She's a pellet eating machine, but we need her to eat her 70-80% hay diet with leafy greens as her primary food source, which she isn't doing. I'm afraid to completely take her pellets away.

We also bought her a few willow balls and willow sticks. I cut an opening in each end of a cardboard box to put in her pen as a hideout.

For water we are using a dish. I was never a fan of the bottles with the rats, and in my research I found that they're even worse for rabbits. However, we put the water bottle in there too as another option for her, which I've caught her licking a couple of times. The water dish will always be the primary water source though, which she's drinking more than enough of.

So, how do we get her to actually eat her hay and not rely on the pellets? As well as leafy greens? And some fruit every now and then?

Now to her temperament. She's a kind bunny, and she likes to be pet when she settles down and realizes we're not a threat to her. What this looks like is, we'll go into her, she'll flip out and run in circles and hop all over until we sit down and stay seated with gentle voices for a few minutes. Then the pets are appreciated in moderation. Holding is virtually a no-go at this point in time. A scary problem we're having is that if she's in her actual cage unit with the doors shut and no access to her pen, she'll flip out when someone comes in and run and jump all over the place, creating a mess, and bashing her face and body off the cage walls. Again this calms down and stops when we sit on her level with gentle voices for a few minutes and she realizes we're not there to hurt her. She did not display any of this behavior in her small cage at the fair, possibly because she knew she didn't have the room. I know every bunny is different, but when should we except her to warm up to us and become a pet we aren't afraid to make so scared that she'll have a heart attack or bash her body off the walls so hard that she dies? We can tolerate it taking time to be able to pet and hold her, but the insane fear that leads to accidental self harm is disturbing.

We're thinking about a fully domesticated, human loved and handled companion for her. We found a Mini Lop breeder couple near us. They do not show bunnies or breed for profit. They love their bunnies and handle and nurture them from a young age. Our thinking is that a companion is good for her; a much more docile companion could teach her some things; and yes, so that the kids can actually gently handle a friendly bunny that loves the human interaction and handling. As of right now their little hearts are broken because they don't understand why we're hardly letting them see the bunny until we can get her settled down.


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## odyssey~ (Aug 1, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> .



hello! 

that cage is on the small side but it's okay until you can get her litter trained. I'd recommend looking into a dog xpen or free ranging once she's trained. for litter training, I recommend starting off with a litter box, a plastic storage tub or a cat litterbox from the dollar store can do. line the bottom with some sort of litter (since you has aspen, go ahead with that) and place the hay near the litterbox to encourage her to poop+pee there. most rabbits prefer to use the bathroom in one corner so put it in the corner she uses most. for the rest of the cage, you can put a towel/fleece down, not aspen so she can know where the potty is.

i would say at 4 months a rabbit should be at their 1/4-1/8 cup a day already. I'd recommend sherwood adult rabbit pellets.
for the hay, you can add herbs to it to make it more enticing and make sure it's fresh everyday. if she came from a fair i'm guessing she probably hasn't had veggies before and only had museli pellets (which aren't good for bunnies) so you'll have to introduce her to veggies slowly. start with a leafy green such as romaine lettuce and gradually increase the amounts and you can introduce new veggies gradually. 

you're doing great in the toy section! and it's good you're using a dish for water!

since you got her recently, I'd give her more time to settle in first. talk to her in calm voices, sit near the cage and let her come to you so she can get used to you. most rabbits will NOT enjoy being handled at all as they are prey animals that like to have all four paws on the ground. at most, they'll probably only like being pet and that's about it.

about the second rabbit- you should get her spayed first before you get another rabbit. fixing the rabbit would reduce territorial behaviours, lower the risk of cancers and make her able to bond with a buddy without getting pregnant. spaying can be done at 4 months of age and will cost about $100 depending on the vet. you can start introducing her to a second rabbit ~4 weeks after the surgery. you're going to want to look for a neutured male because generally females get along best with males. also, most animal shelters will offer 'bunny dating' where you can bring in your fixed rabbit and see which bunny in the shelter they get along with best!

for further research, I'd highly recommend checking out the following youtube channels.
https://www.youtube.com/user/101rabbits <-- her channel has info on basically every single rabbit topic out there and I find her videos super informative!


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChhM7aLCMImtZoF2edIHSFQ



I'm extremely sorry if this was overwhelming or rude at all- I'm just trying to point out everything to help!
take your time to digest this and I'm sure there'll be other members that can add their two cents as well


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## Blue eyes (Aug 1, 2021)

The rabbit came home yesterday. Far too soon to expect anything of any rabbit, previously handled or not.

The first 48 hours minimum, a new rabbit will do best if left completely undisturbed in its cage in its new home. This is a minimum. A rabbit will be overwhelmed at this sudden change in environment. New sights, sounds, odors... a frightening experience indeed. Add human interaction to that and it is overwhelming. I'd suggest taking an immediate hands off approach to start. Allow her the_ next_ 48 hours undisturbed. Normal household activities can and should continue so she can get accustomed to the normal activities.

In the meantime, read and prepare. I understand the kids are disappointed that they can't shower the new pet with attention but consider it all part of the learning process.

I'd suggest starting with the following page of my website:








Myths


[ Tablet users, try the "web" version by clicking on "web" at the bottom of this page for a better, user-friendly format . ]



rabbitsindoors.weebly.com




and then perhaps this (or anywhere else on the site that catches you)








Bringing Your Rabbit Home


[ Tablet users, try the "web" version by clicking on "web" at the bottom of this page for a better, user-friendly format . ]



rabbitsindoors.weebly.com





As @odyssey~ mentioned, it is too soon to look at finding a companion for this rabbit. It will exponentially complicate things. Rabbit bonding, believe it or not, can be quite difficult. Not any 2 rabbits will get along. And I should dispel the commonly held myth that early handling of rabbits makes for handle-able pets. This just isn't so. (This is explained in more detail on my site, but I don't want to write too much here.) You might want to take a peek at the bonding section of my site as well (both "bonding with your bunny" and "bonding bunnies").

There is also detailed info on how to litter train, how to safely introduce greens (too much at once can send bunny into GI stasis), etc.

A word of caution, other than the addition of hay, this is not the time to change bunny's diet. The diet should remain the same for the first couple weeks home (other than offering hay). Diet changes can lead to GI issues and so can stress. Any rabbit is under stress already when adjusting to a new home, so diet changes double the chances of GI issues and so aren't recommended until bun is settled in.


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## Space Monkey (Aug 1, 2021)

odyssey~ said:


> hello!
> 
> that cage is on the small side but it's okay until you can get her litter trained. I'd recommend looking into a dog xpen or free ranging once she's trained. for litter training, I recommend starting off with a litter box, a plastic storage tub or a cat litterbox from the dollar store can do. line the bottom with some sort of litter (since you has aspen, go ahead with that) and place the hay near the litterbox to encourage her to poop+pee there. most rabbits prefer to use the bathroom in one corner so put it in the corner she uses most. for the rest of the cage, you can put a towel/fleece down, not aspen so she can know where the potty is.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I'll certainly take time to digest all of this. 

Right away I'll say: She is at the 1/8-1/4 cup of pellets. She's eating a lot of them. I need to try to "spice up" the hay for her though. She's not that big of a fan yet.

And right away I'll ask: is the cage really too small? Keep in mind she's a Mini Satin and won't get much bigger than she is now. Here she is in relation to her cage and the pen:

Eating her pellets like a dork:




Coming out to say hi:


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## JBun (Aug 1, 2021)

Congratulations on your new addition! 

Usually with feeding, the previous owner should send you home with 2 weeks worth of transition feed, to gradually switch from the old feed to the new, but obviously they didn't do that for you. Baby rabbits have very sensitive digestive tracts. So it's best to not be making sudden changes to their food(with the exception of grass hay) unless the food they're eating is causing serious health issues. But since you are likely feeding a higher quality pellet, it may not cause your bunny any digestive issues. You just want to make sure the bunny is eating the pellets really well and you aren't seeing any poop abnormalities like mushy cecal poop(not true diarrhea, which is an emergency).

For now it will be alright that the bunny isn't eating hay. These first few weeks you just want her eating and having time to settle into her new home. After that, you can gradually reduce the pellet amount to not being free fed but limited, to see if she will start picking up on eating hay. 

With veggies, fruit(very small limited amounts), and other new foods, it would be best to wait until she has had at least two weeks and/or completely settled in, before starting to introduce those foods into her diet, one at a time and starting with leafy greens and in small amounts and gradually increasing if there are no signs of digestive upset(lack of appetite, lethargy, mushy poop, tooth grinding, hunched position and not wanting to move). You just don't want to be introducing new foods to a stressed rabbit with an unsettled digestive system.









Feeding


[ Tablet users, try the "web" version by clicking on "web" at the bottom of this page for a better, user-friendly format . ]



rabbitsindoors.weebly.com





With litter training, you can try having a soft surface down in the rest of the buns area, in addition to having the litter box, but if you find she's inclined to pee on it(which a lot of rabbits like to pee on soft surfaces), then you will probably have to keep the floor of her area a smooth hard surface until she's litter box trained. A cut of textured lino can be a good waterproof surface. Then as she is consistently using the litter box for several weeks, you can attempt to add a soft rug on the lino and see how it goes. You don't want too coarse of a rug as it can abrade the fur on their hocks and create issues with their feet.

A rabbit is considered litter trained when they consistently pee in the litter box. The poop is a whole other thing. Rabbits in a new environment, will leave their round fecal poop around to mark their territory. Being in a new home, being young, and just starting to become hormonal, your bun may not be great at litter training or she may take right to it. All rabbits are different. But as she matures and hormones are more of an issue, that can change with an increased need to territorial mark. And for this getting her spayed can help improve litter box habits, get rid of other hormonal issues, and also remove the possibility of uterine cancer, which female rabbits are at an increased risk of as they get older.









Litter Training


[ Tablet users, try the "web" version by clicking on "web" at the bottom of this page for a better, user-friendly format . ]



rabbitsindoors.weebly.com





With her freaking out, hurting herself is a real possibility right now. Like Blue eyes said, hands off for the first couple days is best(except for necessary feeding, etc). Something I would also suggest for her right now is putting up sheets or cardboard covering the pen walls to block out sudden movements and things on the outside of the pen suddenly startling her. She was probably kept outdoors in a cage. So the sudden introduction to a home environment can be scary for some rabbits.



https://flashsplace.webs.com/bondingwithyourbunny.htm


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## Space Monkey (Aug 1, 2021)

JBun said:


> Congratulations on your new addition!
> 
> Usually with feeding, the previous owner should send you home with 2 weeks worth of transition feed, to gradually switch from the old feed to the new, but obviously they didn't do that for you. Baby rabbits have very sensitive digestive tracts. So it's best to not be making sudden changes to their food(with the exception of grass hay) unless the food they're eating is causing serious health issues. But since you are likely feeding a higher quality pellet, it may not cause your bunny any digestive issues. You just want to make sure the bunny is eating the pellets really well and you aren't seeing any poop abnormalities like mushy cecal poop(not true diarrhea, which is an emergency).
> 
> ...


Hi! Quick comment on the food and poop while I digest your whole post. She's eating the pellets really well. She quite the pig for them. Her poop has maintained it's small ball form and isn't mushy as of now, and she's had lots and lots of it. That's a relief!

This is her food:









Essentials Young Rabbit Food - Oxbow Animal Health


Essentials Young Rabbit is made with premium, purposeful ingredients to support healthy growth and development. We start with high fiber, protein-rich Oxbow Alfalfa hay for energy and healthy digestion and add balanced sources of protein and calcium to help support muscle and bone development...




www.oxbowanimalhealth.com


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## odyssey~ (Aug 1, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> Thank you! I'll certainly take time to digest all of this.
> 
> Right away I'll say: She is at the 1/8-1/4 cup of pellets. She's eating a lot of them. I need to try to "spice up" the hay for her though. She's not that big of a fan yet.
> 
> ...


despite the size of the rabbit, they all need plenty of space! the pen attachement to the cage you have is very short- soon enough she'll probably be adventourous enough to jump over. you can attach a sheet over the top with binder clips if she does that!
for now, until you can get her litter trained and accustomed to the new surroundings, this is okay, but not ideal. minimums are often debated but in my opinion, I say 20 sq ft minimum per one rabbit and more is ALWAYS better!

most rabbits do best with plently of space! if you have a spare bedroom/large closet that you can bunny proof, that would be a great place for her to live in. there's a thread in the housing and environment section with RO member's housings for their rabbits, perhaps you can get inspiration from there 

I don't see any poop or pee outside of the main cage part which is good so far! she might already know to use the main cage part as the bathroom!

I notice you do have the hay in a hay feeder, this makes it hard to get to. do you think you could maybe try putting a small pile in the cage and seeing what she does?


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## Space Monkey (Aug 1, 2021)

Some updates before bed:

She is a new rabbit already. She's already becoming more adventurous since I posted this thread. She's not having the insane freak outs anymore. At most she occasionally goes stiff and becomes watchful. She might run off a couple of paces and then turn around to watch. That lasts just a few moments before she realizes she's perfectly safe. She's insisting on pets with head nudges. She's laying out for the pets and sitting next to us as we take turns sitting with her in the pen.

She's eating hay now. I put some out of the rack on the bedding of her cage and she's gobbling it up. She's quickly learning to come to when she hears the tick noise followed by her name (Freya) [Yes, after the Norse Goddess, which is fitting because we're Norwegian and her breed is half created by the Norwegian Dwarf rabbit]. I'm not sure if the *tick tick tick* noise humans make to call animals to them even matters for rabbits or really any pet/animal (why do we even make this noise?) but she responds to *tick tick tick* "Freya". She's loving eating out of hands.


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## JBun (Aug 2, 2021)

Sounds like she's settling in and adjusting fine then. Just that she's getting startled by things that she is probably not used to. That should decrease over time, and by your description at how quickly she's adjusting, it probably won't take long.

I don't know about the 'tick tick', but rabbits can be trained to respond to words or sounds, just like other animals. They can also be clicker trained.

One recommendation I'll make, is if the hidey box only has one entrance hole cut into it, I would add a hole on each side so that if she does startle, instead of bashing into the pen bars, she'll be able to more easily dart into the box for safety instead.

That's great she's starting to eat hay! If she'll eat at least a handful the size of her body per day, that's the ideal minimum amount to maintain good digestive function.

With you being a new rabbit owner, I'll include a basic crash course on GI stasis, the most common health issue in rabbits. And I would suspect it's the most common cause of death within the first year of a rabbit being in a new home. The reason being is new rabbit owners usually haven't yet learned the subtle clues that rabbits show when they're feeling unwell. And a rabbit that's in pain or discomfort, will usually stop eating and eventually can starve to death if the owner doesn't recognize early on what's happening and get the appropriate treatment.

GI stasis can occur with any health issue that causes pain or discomfort, but most often it's caused by something upsetting the stomach and/or a gut slowdown because not enough fiber is being consumed. Some of the earliest indicators of digestive issues or other health problems in rabbits, is small or gradually reducing fecal poop size, developing mushy cecals, and/or they won't eat the foods they normally would. So here are a few links of the basics every rabbit owner should know.



https://www.litchfieldvet.com/sites/site-6306/documents/dvm360_0515_handout_rabbit-pain.pdf








Guide to Bunny Poops — BUNS







bunssb.org










 Gastrointestinal Stasis: The Silent Killer | House Rabbit Society







rabbit.org


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## C. LeClaire (Aug 2, 2021)

I️ have the exact same cage and with the pen attached I️ think it’s fine. You can let her out to stretch her legs more but that extension gives her room to Binky. As far as hay honestly feed the 1/4 cup of pellets in the am only and freshen the hay daily. My bunnies hated hay and refused to eat it until I️ started this. Now they eat hay all day and especially overnight when they are most active. Put a kitty litter box with tractor supply wood pellets 1/4” in the bottom and then a hay layer at the front and feeder in front of that. They will eat the hay and pellets at the front & water bowl and pee & poop simultaneously in the litter box. Then add hay to cover and refresh every other day to control odor and mess. If her poops become mushy stop pellets and only hay for 3 days. Fresh greens and veggies are not necessary and in my bunnies cause loose stools so I️ only give a leaf or a few as a treat a few times a month. Best of luck to you! Oh also trim nails monthly and brush her often. . I️ use a small ferret nail and coat kit.


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## C. LeClaire (Aug 2, 2021)

One word of advice, take out the shaved bedding or she will think the entire cage is a litter box. There are several sites on etsy, and Amazon that sell hidey houses, hay feeders and wood tunnels for rabbits. I️ also recommend binky bunny website for the litter box w/screen overlay. Super easy to clean and set up, buy 2 so you clean one and use one easily. The round ferret beds at pet smart inside the hidey house are a favorite sleep spot for my bunnies.


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## Space Monkey (Aug 2, 2021)

Morning and afternoon update:

This morning I got up to find her sitting on the platform near the water dish, motionless. I take it she was sleeping. I added a big handful of hay to the other side and she perked up, came over, and started eating it. I let her be.

A few minutes ago, this afternoon, I let her out of her cage and into the pen. She came out exploring and following me around the room. While she was out in the pen checking everything out, I gave her pellets in her food dish and fresh water in her food bowl. She went it, ate a few pellets, took a drink, and then came out again where I was sitting by her pen. She then started running circles, made some squeaky squeal noises, stopped running, went in again and ate more pellets, then got hyper again running in circles making some noises, and stopping every once in awhile to lick my fingers and say hi, then off to the races again. 

I'm assuming she's a very happy bunny and is getting used to her life of relative freedom and an abundance of love.


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## Space Monkey (Aug 2, 2021)

About the noise: I didn't know how to describe it, so the words I chose were squeak and squeal. This is not what she was doing! I researched and it was honking.


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## odyssey~ (Aug 2, 2021)

it's great that she's warming up to you! running in super fast circles is probably zoomies, aka bunny 500s


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## JBun (Aug 2, 2021)

Zoomies or bunny 500's, where they zip around really fast and then stop(not scared panicked running), and binkies where they do little jumps and shake their head or body, are expressions of play, happiness, joy, and feeling safe for rabbits. 

Your bunny coming up, licking you and coming back to check in with you, basically means she's bonded with you. Circling with the honking/buzzing sound, can be hormonal courting behavior in unfixed rabbits, or in fixed or unfixed rabbits it can just be a rabbit excited to see you, to be fed, etc. Sounds like she was excited to see you and that she is very happy in her new home  









Understanding your rabbit







wabbitwiki.com













Rabbit Body Language


You can learn to speak and understand Rabbit language.



language.rabbitspeak.com


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## Space Monkey (Aug 2, 2021)

Right now she's bonding with my oldest. She's doing a good job of keeping poop mostly isolated to one area of the cage. I removed the bottle because, even though it was only a secondary water source, I read that it can collect bacteria and make her sick. I also removed the hay rack and put the hay down where she likes to eat it and poop.


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## Space Monkey (Aug 2, 2021)

Practicing our hay eating


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## JBun (Aug 2, 2021)

That's one content bunny! Your oldest is doing really well with her.

If you find you get sick of the shavings being tracked everywhere. A lot of us here use the wood pellet litter. I've found it's the best litter to control odor and best at absorption, and generally doesn't get tracked out of the litter box. Though some rabbits don't like the feel of the hard pellets on their feet, so a layer of hay over that eliminates that problem, and/or a diy soft screen to cover the litter(also prevents digging). 

If you buy expensive pet store hay and you have a farm store nearby with good quality grass horse hay, that's the cheapest option for hay, then it's not such an issue wasting hay as a litter cover that gets peed on. Though you do sometimes need to be careful with the bales you get as some aren't as good as others. 

You don't want hay that's ever been wet, has signs of mold(white or black spots, white dust, dampness, sour or musty smell) which can be fatal to rabbits, has noxious weeds or a lot of weeds in it, or is really dusty. Cheap wood pellets can be bought there as well, as equine pellet bedding. Or as winter gets closer, plain wood stove pellets(no additives) are another cheap option.


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## Catlyn (Aug 2, 2021)

A little something i noticed from the vid, and had been mentioned before. 
Wood shavings all over the cage floor like that is a waste, you should get her a big plastic storage bin or a cat litterbox, you can line it with fleece, newspaper, or puppy pee pads, different people use different things. Then on top of that, almost any wood pellets will do, most often i see "equine pine" or "feline pine". I've also heard of people using paper based litter, like "yesterday's news". Some types of shavings are okay but in my experience, they tend to be more messy, gets dragged all over the place and isn't so good at odour control, also it is known to be more dusty. Then on top of the lining and pellets, add a handful of hay twice a day and all should be good!


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## Flipgirl24 (Aug 2, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> I'm a first time bunny owner. I've dealt with dogs and cats all my life, and shockingly to some, rats. I've probably had a dozen rats since I was a teenager, but none currently. In researching and buying supplies for our bunny, and learning at least a little bit about them, they're surprisingly similar pets, but different enough that I'm requiring more information from knowledgeable owners.
> 
> So we were at the State Fair a couple of days ago and walked into the bunny barn. My kids were interacting with the all the bunnies, and then the oldest noticed that some were for sale. That led to 4 smiling, wide eyed, begging kids. Of course I said yes because I'm the cool dad and I like animals too.
> 
> ...



I am a first time (well, technically a second-time owner but I had to rehome my first bunny a long long time ago) bunny owner so I don't know much. I just wanted to suggest something. I bought a splat mat that is used to catch spills from babies in a highchair from Amazon. Then I bought a washable pee pad (mine is 51" x 51") to put over it. I will probably get another one so I can switch it when cleaning. I figure both mats will help protect the floor as bunnies seem to pee and poop so much!

Here are some photos of the pen I just built for him today. 

It sounds like you are going to be a great bunny owner!


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## odyssey~ (Aug 2, 2021)

Flipgirl24 said:


> .


just an FYI, i'd highly recommend covering those ramps with a towel or fleece to protect your rabbits paws so they don't get stuck, and it can also cause sore hocks 

to OP-
Freya is so cute! she seems to love being pet and she looks so happy! I'd agree with the JBun, using a different litter would probably be better  keep up the good work!


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## Space Monkey (Aug 2, 2021)

I forgot to ask; what did those people do to her ear? It's tagged or something. Is this permanent?


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## JBun (Aug 2, 2021)

It's a tattoo. Show rabbits have to have a tattoo ID so you can tell them apart from other rabbits of the same breed and color.


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## JBun (Aug 2, 2021)

Sometimes if a permanent tattoo isn't done, a sharpie might be used to put an ID mark. If it looks like small dots, it's a tattoo. If it's a smooth line, it's probably sharpie. If so, you could try some rubbing alcohol on a q tip, to see if it will rub off. Though she may not be too happy to have you doing that. My rabbits hate me checking their ears.


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## Space Monkey (Aug 2, 2021)

JBun said:


> Sometimes if a permanent tattoo isn't done, a sharpie might be used to put an ID mark. If it looks like small dots, it's a tattoo. If it's a smooth line, it's probably sharpie. If so, you could try some rubbing alcohol on a q tip, to see if it will rub off. Though she may not be too happy to have you doing that. My rabbits hate me checking their ears.


Ah, it's small dots. It looks like a jailhouse tattoo. Darn. I guess it gives her another element of uniqueness. 

I'm grateful that they sold her to me and I don't want to trash on the people, but I have a hard time respecting people who breed any animal for profit and/or use them as show things which involves a lot of poking and prodding and traveling and gawking, not to mention poor living conditions. Even show dogs are often kept in tiny cages and hardly interacted with unless it's to train to make the human money, which if it's bad at results in punishment. As I said earlier, I believe she and the other for sale rabbits were essentially punished. Their cages weren't as tidy and they didn't have individual fans blowing on them to stay cool in the summer heat in a hot barn. That permanent tattoos are the rotten cherry on top I guess. 

Sadly these people told me that most of the rabbits they sell are sold to schools, which typically involve small cages, crappy food, and interaction that's mostly the same poking and prodding as being in the shows. Nobody goes to a fair looking to buy a rabbit, so if other people bought rabbits on a whim like I did I hope they did their research, but having lived with humans for 31 years now, I can't say I'm inclined to believe they did. 

Would that we could save them all I suppose.


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## ArtistChibi (Aug 2, 2021)

Show breeders for rabbits differ a massive amounts compared to show dog breeders. Because of rabbits' fragile selves, leaving them in the same conditions as breeders do dogs creates more health problems and greatly lowers their life expectancy. Fortunately, breeders on this site are highly respectable people.


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## JBun (Aug 3, 2021)

If it's a new tattoo, some of the ink that isn't absorbed, may come off with the rubbing alcohol. Though if it is new, it will also probably sting and she may react to that. But the tattoo isn't going to bother her or cause any sorts of issues. If you're fine with it the way it is, I would just leave it.

You have to keep in mind that though your rabbit may not have been treated very well, there are a lot of breeders/show owners, that really love and care for their rabbits really well. Maybe not to the same level of well kept pet rabbit standards, but there are also plenty of pet rabbit owners out there that take far less better care of their rabbits, and are many times much more neglectful. The serious breeders/show owners aren't in it for the money. I would venture to guess they spend a lot more than they ever make. You just happened on one of the crappy breeders, but lucky for your little bun that you did.

Everyone is at a different level and learning curve. I'm a much better rabbit owner than I was 20 years ago. But it was a process. All we can do is be an example, give our rabbits the best life possible, and share our experiences and knowledge to help inspire others to learn and improve as well.


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## SirLawrence (Aug 3, 2021)

It's great to see another bunny dad on here doing great research and trying to give your new little one the best life!

WARNING: She WILL steal your heart. I got Lawrence by "accident", and he is my bff now! I'm 41 and male, and this little white bunny has me wrapped around his little finger!


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## Freedom (Aug 3, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> Right now she's bonding with my oldest. She's doing a good job of keeping poop mostly isolated to one area of the cage. I removed the bottle because, even though it was only a secondary water source, I read that it can collect bacteria and make her sick. I also removed the hay rack and put the hay down where she likes to eat it and poop.



So so sweet. 

I agree. Remove the bedding in the cage and get her a dedicated litter box.


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## Space Monkey (Aug 3, 2021)

I'm reading a lot about GI Stasis. Will every rabbit experience GI Stasis at some point? It's scaring me and making me paranoid. Freya only ate a few of her pellets this morning, instead opting for exploration. She seems to have devoured a great deal of hay overnight. I'm finding myself checking her water and pellet bowls a lot to make sure it's being consumed. Do I need to be this paranoid about GI Stasis?


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## odyssey~ (Aug 3, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> I'm reading a lot about GI Stasis. Will every rabbit experience GI Stasis at some point? It's scaring me and making me paranoid. Freya only ate a few of her pellets this morning, instead opting for exploration. She seems to have devoured a great deal of hay overnight. I'm finding myself checking her water and pellet bowls a lot to make sure it's being consumed. Do I need to be this paranoid about GI Stasis?


Probably, yes, they will have GI stasis once in their life. 
Freya's probably just getting more used to her surroundings and chose to explore rather than eat.
I'm extremely paranoid myself too!


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## SirLawrence (Aug 3, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> I'm reading a lot about GI Stasis. Will every rabbit experience GI Stasis at some point? It's scaring me and making me paranoid. Freya only ate a few of her pellets this morning, instead opting for exploration. She seems to have devoured a great deal of hay overnight. I'm finding myself checking her water and pellet bowls a lot to make sure it's being consumed. Do I need to be this paranoid about GI Stasis?



I was. The only way to not be paranoid about GI Stasis is to not own a rabbit, imo. 

That said, you've obviously done your research about the warning signs, and the only way you'll be less paranoid is by getting to know your rabbit. You'll learn her habits, moods, attitudes, etc, and you'll be able to for a "normal" for your bun. "Normal" isn't a term I use much anymore after having rabbits. Every individual is an individual, god bless 'em! They hold grudges, have mood swings, and have full-blown personalities.

So until you really get to know little Freya, you'll probably find yourself paranoid, or at least vigilant. It may help to find a rabbit-savvy vet or rabbit rescue you can communicate with if you have questions. Aside from that, this forum is a great resource; there are users with vet backgrounds, users that have been breeding rabbits for decades, foster parents and rescuers. I haven't noticed much bad info or advice on the forums since I've been here.


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## Space Monkey (Aug 3, 2021)

I'm up for the challenge. GIS is so freaking scary. I'm going to get some Critical Care and other supplies to be ready just in case.

Today I inserted a litter box. It's makeshift for now until I can find something more permanent than cardboard with the right dimensions.


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## Space Monkey (Aug 3, 2021)

I just put her back. It's a hit already. She knows just what to do.


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## Space Monkey (Aug 3, 2021)

We have litter box poops! I'm so freaking proud of her.


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## Dandy&Tuli4693 (Aug 3, 2021)

Ao 


Space Monkey said:


> Thank you! I'll certainly take time to digest all of this.
> 
> Right away I'll say: She is at the 1/8-1/4 cup of pellets. She's eating a lot of them. I need to try to "spice up" the hay for her though. She's not that big of a fan yet.
> 
> ...


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## Dandy&Tuli4693 (Aug 3, 2021)

When trying to get bunnys to eat their hay or other foods that are necessary try adding dry herbs like dried strawberry leaf, chamomile or peppermint
I have a insanely picky 5 month old lionhead and he does not like any greens or herbs fresh except collard greens, otherwise I use everything dried and he loves it.

I agree with these owners definitely wait to interact and if you want her to potty train easier then definitely get her spayed

And sooner or later try getting a different bedding like wood stove pellets or care fresh


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## Dandy&Tuli4693 (Aug 3, 2021)

I can say that I probably shouldn't have gotten a rabbit at 9 but she was litterbox trained had unlimited love and was free rome 24/7

She still could've been groomed alot better and cleaned more but after all that she is now a senior and we have a fantastic bond and she has much better care now and has never had any health problems 

I am relieved cause we didnt give her hay very often when I was little but I still have my love bun and she is doing better than ever with tons of fresh orchard grass and greens 

I wish you luck and as long as you groom her and keep her hay fresh then chances are gi stasis wont be a problem until she old and has trouble doing normal bunny stuff


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## Space Monkey (Aug 4, 2021)

Is there any health difference between the Timothy Hay and the Orchard Hay? Are they both just as good? I bought both and mixed them up. You can tell the difference between the two with the naked eye. Freya prefers to take the Timothy Hay pieces and spread them out in her litter box to poop and pee on, and the Orchard Hay she prefers to eat. Knowing her preference, could I just buy Orchard Hay?


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## odyssey~ (Aug 4, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> Is there any health difference between the Timothy Hay and the Orchard Hay? Are they both just as good? I bought both and mixed them up. You can tell the difference between the two with the naked eye. Freya prefers to take the Timothy Hay pieces and spread them out in her litter box to poop and pee on, and the Orchard Hay she prefers to eat. Knowing her preference, could I just buy Orchard Hay?


Orchard hay is generally speaking softer than timothy hay no matter when it's cut in the season. personally i only feed orchard grass as a "treat hay" meaning I give a handful once or twice a week while timothy is always accessible. it's up to you- most rabbit owners with allergies to timothy feed orchard 

also, i recommend looking for a farm near you that sells hay so you can get it for less!


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## Space Monkey (Aug 4, 2021)

odyssey~ said:


> Orchard hay is generally speaking softer than timothy hay no matter when it's cut in the season. personally i only feed orchard grass as a "treat hay" meaning I give a handful once or twice a week while timothy is always accessible. it's up to you- most rabbit owners with allergies to timothy feed orchard
> 
> also, i recommend looking for a farm near you that sells hay so you can get it for less!


If it's a treat hay or an alternative to Timothy, no wonder she prefers it! Lol. Interesting that you say it's softer because in my research I read that Timothy is best for teeth. She is an avid chewer of her willow balls and sticks, so I think we're good there. Although I hope she's not ingesting the willow she's chewing. She's so funny because she'll pick up her balls and sticks with her teeth and throw them. Yesterday she destroyed her bundle of willow sticks and dragged them all over the place.

Freya is devouring her pellets and eating a bunch of hay. She has no loss of appetite at all, but she's a weirdo and here's why. I've offered a single grape on 3 occasions and she refuses it. Granted this was day 1. On day 2 I offered a single strawberry and she refused that too. Today is day 4 1/2 and I had a banana for breakfast. I remembered while eating it that it's a favorite treat for rabbits, like it's rabbit crack. So I took a very small piece and offered it to her. She sniffed it and refused it. I sat it next to her food bowl thinking she'll surely want it after she settles down from the excitement of humans saying hi to her. It's still there, and she's passed it up many times to eat pellets instead. I don't get why she won't eat fruit. Maybe it's a blessing that she prefers to devour her healthy food items and won't touch the treats, but it just doesn't make sense to me.


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## SirLawrence (Aug 4, 2021)

I have one bun, Lucas, who refuses pretty much all treats (except banana) but is a great eater when it comes to hay and pellets, and another, Lawrence, who loves most treats, oats, the occasional raisin, but HATES banana. I mean, he recoils like it bit him and runs off flicking his feet at me. 

Like I said before, we're dealing with a bunch of individuals, here!    Every rabbit I've met is a weirdo! I call mine "weirdo" all the time, and they're starting to answer to it.

I would definitely take it as a blessing! It will save you money on treats, and a lot of that sugary stuff can cause stomach upset...


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## Space Monkey (Aug 4, 2021)

Ok. Freya has had a habit of circling my son and me and lightly nibbling on us in passing. I let her out to free roam the room she stays in and she's doing binky after binky and running zoomies. About 5 minutes ago she was running in circles around me (I'm laying on the floor with her; it's just me here, school started) and then she sprayed pee on me. Why?????? Of course I said "oh Freya come on!" and she took off doing binkies.


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## Catlyn (Aug 4, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> Ok. Freya has had a habit of circling my son and me and lightly nibbling on us in passing. I let her out to free roam the room she stays in and she's doing binky after binky and running zoomies. About 5 minutes ago she was running in circles around me (I'm laying on the floor with her; it's just me here, school started) and then she sprayed pee on me. Why?????? Of course I said "oh Freya come on!" and she took off doing binkies.


Haha, Freya likes you! She's courting you, trying to get your attention. I can't remember, how old is she? Past four months and you have a teenager with hormonal activity going on. When you get her spayed, she should stop spraying you, but the nibbles will most likely never stop-she might want your attention, to move your body part in her way, or to groom you showing that she cares for you.


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## Space Monkey (Aug 4, 2021)

Catlyn said:


> Haha, Freya likes you! She's courting you, trying to get your attention. I can't remember, how old is she? Past four months and you have a teenager with hormonal activity going on. When you get her spayed, she should stop spraying you, but the nibbles will most likely never stop-she might want your attention, to move your body part in her way, or to groom you showing that she cares for you.


She was born on March 27th of this year, so a little over 4 months old. My plans for her are to let her acclimate until she's 5 months old, and then slowly phase out the Alfalfa pellets for adult Timothy pellets and slowly get her on leafy greens by the time she's 6 months old at which point (at 6 months) I'll schedule her to be spayed.


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## Catlyn (Aug 4, 2021)

She'll most likely acclimate faster than that, and diet changes don't intervene with the surgery as you're doing it slowly anyway. Four months is actually a good age to slowly start including vegs in her diet, no need to wait two more months.
You can schedule her to be spayed earlier than that, some vets do spays from four months of age. Your vets might also have a super long waiting list, i've read of some people waiting two months after they booked their time. That's not a problem for me, all our fixing ops have had a waiting time of no less than a week, with Iris we called on a friday and took her on the next wednesday, but it differs significantly.
In my experience, once she's a little accustomed, she should be good to go so that she wouldn't have to be stressed over and over again.

Still, it is up to you and if you can take the hormonal behaviours up to come, no hurries, six months is totally fine.


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## SirLawrence (Aug 4, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> Ok. Freya has had a habit of circling my son and me and lightly nibbling on us in passing. I let her out to free roam the room she stays in and she's doing binky after binky and running zoomies. About 5 minutes ago she was running in circles around me (I'm laying on the floor with her; it's just me here, school started) and then she sprayed pee on me. Why?????? Of course I said "oh Freya come on!" and she took off doing binkies.



Are we sure Freya is a girl? I mean absolutely? I know either sex can do this, but it seems to be more male behavior... and at 4 months, hormones may already be starting!


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## SirLawrence (Aug 4, 2021)

Lawrence was Florence before his first vet visit... so no judgement...


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## Space Monkey (Aug 4, 2021)

SirLawrence said:


> Are we sure Freya is a girl? I mean absolutely? I know either sex can do this, but it seems to be more male behavior... and at 4 months, hormones may already be starting!


That's what the breeder/show person said, and that's what the pedigree states as well.


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## SirLawrence (Aug 4, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> That's what the breeder/show person said, and that's what the pedigree states as well.



I forgot she was pedigreed! That's pretty definite, but mistakes are made... just saying. Females can circle, nip and spray too!


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## 4 bunny Mom (Aug 4, 2021)

congrats on your new companion! You picked the right site to come to for advice. I have learned more from this site than anywhere else, and everyone is so nice and helpful. Plus, no judgement ever. We've all been a new rabbit owner once; so, we have all been there.
Your new bunny sounds like she is settling in very nicely, and you are doing an EXCELLENT job.  Kudos to you and all your research is paying off as Freya is obviously very happy with her new home by what you have been posting.

The spraying...I have 3 girls and they have all sprayed at one time or another. Very typical at her age right now, she is starting her transformation and her hormones are kicking in. So you may get some spraying and that is pretty normal. I admit the first time my girls sprayed I wondered if "she" was a "he". But, no...this is very typical for girls. 

Just wanted to say "welcome" to the wonderful world of rabbits and all the joy and love they bring. Each rabbit has it's own personality and moods; but, they are all treasures.
Warning: rabbit love is addicting, and you will become Freya's slave. Don't worry, we're all slaves and humble servants too, and we wouldn't trade it for anything. We're all here for you and Freya.


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## odyssey~ (Aug 4, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> Although I hope she's not ingesting the willow she's chewing.


it's perfectly fine for them to eat willow, I get fresh willow from a tree outside every so often and Odyssey loves eating it!


Space Monkey said:


> Ok. Freya has had a habit of circling my son and me and lightly nibbling on us in passing. I let her out to free roam the room she stays in and she's doing binky after binky and running zoomies. About 5 minutes ago she was running in circles around me (I'm laying on the floor with her; it's just me here, school started) and then she sprayed pee on me. Why?????? Of course I said "oh Freya come on!" and she took off doing binkies.


like the others said spraying is a territorial behaviour which fixing could easily resolve. females can be fixed as soon as 4 months so you should be good to go if you can find a vet near you that is rabbit savvy, and you know enough for post-op care.
it's great that she's doing binkies and zoomies- she must be really comfortable and happy now!
circling before spaying is considered a hormonal behaviour (I think) but after getting spayed it takes about a month for the hormones to die down. she still might circle you after getting spayed (my rabbit does, and I tripped over her a couple of times since I didn't notice she was doing it lol) for attention.
leafy greens you can start now. I recommend starting with a green leaf lettuce such as romaine.
you're doing a great job!


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## JBun (Aug 4, 2021)

This is a lot of information. So if you're feeling overwhelmed at all the rabbit care stuff coming at you right now, may save this for later.

Not all rabbits will experience GI stasis, but they are prone to it because anything that causes them pain can cause GI stasis to set in because they usually stop eating when they're hurting. There are different levels of it too. Most often it will be a minor case of a stomach upset from something they eat, that resolves itself within 12 hours and usually a few doses of baby gas drops. But sometimes it can get more serious because of a slow gut and partial obstruction, or other problem.

It's nothing to let yourself overly worry about. Being observant with a rabbits poops and eating habits, is just part of being a good rabbit owner. If she's eating, or active and exploring during her usual times and her usual way, which is usually morning and evening for rabbits(usually sleep during the day), and you're seeing normal sized poop being produced, then it's a good indication everything is usually fine.

You'll get more attuned to notice when something is off as you get more familiar with your rabbits usual behavior and eating habits. A rabbit that won't eat at feeding time, seems quiet and withdrawn, may be hunched up in a corner not wanting to move, or repeatedly changing position pressing the belly(not the same as contented flopping) and can't seem to get comfortable, and/or loud tooth grinding(not to be confused with gentle contented tooth purring/chattering), are all signs a rabbit isn't feeling well. There are contented bunny behaviors that can look similar, like flopping and relaxing, dead bunny flop, and contented tooth purring, but it's learning to recognize the other body language cues altogether, to help determine if it's a sick rabbit you have or just a happy relaxed bunny.









Understanding your rabbit







wabbitwiki.com













Rabbit Body Language


You can learn to speak and understand Rabbit language.



language.rabbitspeak.com





Some emergency supplies that are good for all rabbit owners to have on hand, I would say the baby gas drops(simethicone) and 1ml oral syringes are what I have used the most. Critical care is good to have too but should only be used in specific circumstances, post neuter/spay if needed, and after illnesses when a rabbit isn't eating on it's own and the vet has ruled out bloat or a complete obstruction(can be dangerous to syringe feed a rabbit with bloat or a complete bowel obstruction). But do have CC and feeding syringes on hand before you take her in for her spay, in case you do end up needing to syringe feed post recovery.



Pre- and Post-operative care of Domestic Rabbits



Emergency supplies I like to have on hand:
Critical care - apple banana flavor, keep in freezer to extend shelf life
Baby gas drops(simethicone active ingredient)
Pedialyte(only the unflavored one, no artificial sweeteners)
Questran(rx) or activated charcoal - for emergency diarrhea only(not just mushy cecals), when there isn't a vet available until the next day
1ml oral syringes
6-12ml wide tip oral feeding syringes(normal tips get clogged)
Rabbit safe warm pack(sock filled with rice, snuggle safe)

Being vigilant is just part of being a rabbit owner. Once you get a feel for your bun and her personality, quirks, usual behaviors, I think you'll start to feel more comfortable about things. The fact that she is eating a bunch of hay is the best indicator of good health and helps prevent many of the usual rabbit health issues. If her body condition is good and she's eating lots of hay, then not too many worries there.

You can feed orchard or timothy. If she's producing healthy sized poop, has good body condition/is a healthy weight, and is eating a pile at least the size of her body per day, then it doesn't usually matter what variety of grass hay you feed. Though there are some particulars that might make you decide to choose one over the other, or a different cut of hay.

There are different cuts of hay, and the softness or coarseness of the cut can affect how fast food moves through a rabbits digestive tract. So if you have a rabbit with fecal poop that seems too small consistently but the rabbit is a healthy weight or maybe a little overweight, then a coarser hay cut may be better than a leafier cut of hay. Or if you have a rabbit that is too skinny and needs to put on more weight to be healthy then a softer cut may be better. Soft hay has more protein and nutrients for weight maintenance/gain, and coarse hay less protein and lots of indigestible fiber for weight loss and good gut motility. I prefer a medium cut that has a good mix of leaf and stem. If you want to read more about the differences in hay cuts and the particulars about them in relation to a rabbits health and digestion, I go into more detail in this thread.






Advice needed - small poop, behavior off after neuter


Hi everyone! I found this forum trying to find information so I thought maybe I can get some input… I have a Holland lop male that is a little over 6 months old and was neutered about 2 1/2 weeks ago. He just doesn’t quite seem “normal” to me He is free roam with the exception of nighttime...




www.rabbitsonline.net





A medium coarse(mix of leaf and stem) timothy hay is a good all around grass hay to feed. It's the most readily available grass hay in the US, for herbivore pets. It's what I feed my rabbits, but I buy it in bulk at a feed store as it's cheaper. It has a good amount of protein, nutrients, and fiber to help a rabbit maintain a good healthy weight, keep the gut motility functioning well, and provide for the usual amount of tooth wear needed to prevent sharp points developing on the molars, for most rabbits.

Orchard hay is one of those hays that may be preferred for better tooth wear. Particularly for rabbits with molar spur issues, as orchard is a more abrasive hay(good thing for rabbits) so may help wear down and prevent the sharp points on the molars from developing. You'll find with rabbits that it's all about the right balance to maintain a healthy weight, good gut movement, and good dental health.









Body Condition Score


Why do I need to body condition score my rabbit? Body condition scoring is a technique used in many animals and humans to assess if they are in good body condition, too thin or obese. Obesity is a …



rabbitwelfare.co.uk







https://www.pfma.org.uk/_assets/weigh-in-wednesday/pet-size-o-meter-rabbit.pdf



As mentioned, it's perfectly fine for a rabbit to eat untreated willow, or any other rabbit safe branches and leaves. My rabbits LOVE fresh apple branches. They'll sit there munching on the leaves, then strip the bark off the branch. It's all good fiber for them.

Medirabbit: safe branches and leaves

For a litter box, cat litter trays, plastic storage bins, I use a mortar mixing tray for my rabbits. Lots of different types to look at to find the right size.

Some rabbits are suspicious about trying out new foods. But usually if the food is leaf(not too long that it goes bad), they will usually eventually try it. I agree with Caitlyn, no need to wait until 6 months if her poop is normal and she's settled in well. Though I would recommend starting with non cruciferous greens. They're usually easier on the digestion and least likely to upset digestive balance.









Greens & Veggies


[ Tablet users, try the "web" version by clicking on "web" at the bottom of this page for a better, user-friendly format . ]



rabbitsindoors.weebly.com





Even though the breeder said you have a female, it's still a possibility for your bun to be a male. Some rabbits are very difficult to sex at a young age, and it's not until they've fully matured that you can tell for sure, usually by there being testicles that appear. That's a sure indicator 









How to Sex Your Rabbits | House Rabbit Network


How to Sex Your Rabbit Sexing your new bunny is important, especially if you recently adopted a pair of rabbits. If your rabbits are young, they should be separated by the time they are 3 months old to prevent accidental litters. It will also determine at what age you get your rabbit fixed, …



www.rabbitnetwork.org


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## nat1234 (Aug 5, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> Thank you! I'll certainly take time to digest all of this.
> 
> Right away I'll say: She is at the 1/8-1/4 cup of pellets. She's eating a lot of them. I need to try to "spice up" the hay for her though. She's not that big of a fan yet.
> 
> ...


the cage is a perfect size for her, room to run, stand, and stretch out. a dog pen would provide the exact same amount of space this pen does so there is no need to upgrade. just let her have access to both the cage and pen at all times!


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## Space Monkey (Aug 5, 2021)

Is having hay only in the litter box area ok? I don't know where else to put any in her pen, and I'm afraid that if I had some more elsewhere she'll get confused on where to be pooping and peeing.


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## 4 bunny Mom (Aug 5, 2021)

What you have there is perfect! You are correct, if you put hay anywhere else she will only get confused.


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## SirLawrence (Aug 5, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> Is having hay only in the litter box area ok? I don't know where else to put any in her pen, and I'm afraid that if I had some more elsewhere she'll get confused on where to be pooping and peeing.



You're right. Just make sure there's always fresh (unsoiled) hay available.


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## 4 bunny Mom (Aug 5, 2021)

You may not want to use cardboard for the liter box...it will get soggy pretty fast from her peeing in it. You can probably find a plastic (like rubbermaid) container to put there instead. I use a large underbed storage box for my rabbits and line the bottom with newspaper so they don't slip in it while hopping in and out. I have also used a dish tub with lower sides (not a deep one) and that worked great too. If the box is too small to keep fresh hay off to one side you could also add a hay manger that will clip to the side of the cage. That way she can sit in the box and eat while doing her business. It will keep the fresh hay off the bottom of the box for her to eat. Just make sure to keep giving her fresh hay, they are very picky when it comes to their hay. Mine will not eat it if it has been sitting there for awhile. Even if you don't think she needs more, just putting a bit of fresh stuff on top will entice her to start nibbling again.


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## odyssey~ (Aug 5, 2021)

nat1234 said:


> the cage is a perfect size for her, room to run, stand, and stretch out. a dog pen would provide the exact same amount of space this pen does so there is no need to upgrade. just let her have access to both the cage and pen at all times!


I'd respectfully disagree with this statement 
From my experience, this amount of space really isn't much to work with for the ideal rabbit set up. Of course minimums are highly debated, but for one rabbit I'd really only ever use this as a home base or nighttime cage once the rabbit is fixed since rabbits can really have a lot of energy! I've seen zoomies that went from one end of the house to another!
Dog pens can in fact have more room  When used as a gate/fence and walls of the house are used a seperate sides, xpens can give 30 sq ft+ depending on how you configure it!
Most rabbits will enjoy and use to the best all the extra space you give them and it never hurts to have more


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## Space Monkey (Aug 5, 2021)

Ok so I was able to find a permanent litter box with the right dimensions at Pet Smart. I went to Meijer next and found a small meatloaf glass to use as a hay holder to keep it unsoiled.

Is this ok?

And yes I changed her towel and while I was working on the litter box she thought it was a great idea to poop on the towel.


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## Space Monkey (Aug 5, 2021)

A very content bunny. (I just dropped that block, she isn't chewing on it; and yes, my daughters paint my toenails and I don't wash it off because I'm the cool dad.)


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## odyssey~ (Aug 5, 2021)

she probably marked her territory with the poops since you just did a cage clean 
looking great!


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## Space Monkey (Aug 5, 2021)

I tried Romaine lettuce today. She turned her nose up at it. No to grapes, no to strawberries, no to bananas, and no to lettuce. A big fat yes to pellets and hay. I don't get it, man. What it I can't get her to eat leafy greens? Are they vital or will she be fine on pellets and hay?


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## Dandy&Tuli4693 (Aug 5, 2021)

The litterbox is perfect but I recomed getting a old fabric grocery bag and cut some large holes in it to let the hat out of,

The co trainer your using is either gonna get knocked over or pooped on 

I'll make a post in a minute with recommendations of hay feeders and diy hay feeders


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## Dandy&Tuli4693 (Aug 5, 2021)

Here are some hay feeder options that you can either buy or make yourself

I dont know how big the etsy 9ne is I was just trying to give an example



Go to 3:30
For the hay feeder part








__





This item is unavailable - Etsy


Find the perfect handmade gift, vintage & on-trend clothes, unique jewelry, and more… lots more.




www.etsy.com


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## Dandy&Tuli4693 (Aug 5, 2021)

T


Space Monkey said:


> I tried Romaine lettuce today. She turned her nose up at it. No to grapes, no to strawberries, no to bananas, and no to lettuce. A big fat yes to pellets and hay. I don't get it, man. What it I can't get her to eat leafy greens? Are they vital or will she be fine on pellets and hay?





They are pretty vital

And I have a baby bunny that hates all leafy greens except broccoli and collard greens

I would go to the grocery store and plan to make a big salad for your dinner that night and buy a bunch of different leafy greens and herbs and give her a piece of each to see if she likes any of them


Cause if you plan to eat a big salad then anything she doesnt like wont get wasted


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## Space Monkey (Aug 5, 2021)

Dandy&Tuli4693 said:


> T
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We left he alone for about an hour and came back to find she ate about half of the lettuce we gave her.


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## Space Monkey (Aug 6, 2021)

Freya is a little over 4 months old. As a Mini Satin she will be a maximum of about 4.5lbs when fully grown. I don't know how much growing she has left, but she's very small. I don't know how much she weighs because I won't pick her up to weigh her and she hasn't seen the vet yet (soon enough). I'm guessing she's no more than 3-3.5lbs at most. How much leafy greens should she be eating per day?


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## ArtistChibi (Aug 6, 2021)

I got a black berry bush specifically for my bunnies. For both the berries and the leaves. BOY do they love the leaves.


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## SirLawrence (Aug 6, 2021)

ArtistChibi said:


> I got a black berry bush specifically for my bunnies. For both the berries and the leaves. BOY do they love the leaves.



Wow! Good to know! Where I'm at, blackberries are our weed of choice, and me being "weird nature guy" lets them grow (within reason). I've offered them blackberries in the past, and they did not want, but I need to try the leaves!


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## SirLawrence (Aug 6, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> We left he alone for about an hour and came back to find she ate about half of the lettuce we gave her.



Yeah, I've noticed that my boys won't eat the healthy stuff when I'm still around, as they know I have the ability to give them treats.


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## odyssey~ (Aug 6, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> Freya is a little over 4 months old. As a Mini Satin she will be a maximum of about 4.5lbs when fully grown. I don't know how much growing she has left, but she's very small. I don't know how much she weighs because I won't pick her up to weigh her and she hasn't seen the vet yet (soon enough). I'm guessing she's no more than 3-3.5lbs at most. How much leafy greens should she be eating per day?


Since you're just starting her on them now, continue with romaine for the rest of the week I'd say and then start a new veg next week, maybe something like cilantro or mint? Once she's accustomed to more veggies, you'll want to feed her 1-2 cups of veggies per 2lb of body weight daily, which is the general rule of thumb.  If you ever introduce a new veggie later on you'll have to phase that in like you're doing now 
Maybe can you see if you can put the scale on the ground and put a piece of food on it? And while she's eating you can see if you can get her weight.


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## 4 bunny Mom (Aug 6, 2021)

That looks great. You will thank yourself later for getting rid of the cardboard. Honestly, rabbit urine is the worst and the cardboard would have absorbed a lot of that. (Just speaking from experience!). You will understand after a few times cleaning the liter box.  The meatloaf pan is great idea, as it is too small for her to jump in and soil the hay. She also won't be able to chew on it either. She will be scattering lots of poops around for a while, she is marking her territory. It will pass with time.
Good Job! 
I hope you and your family are enjoying your new friend and getting to know her. Hopefully she has not sprayed you (or anything else again). Hope you are enjoying the site...JBun (and many others) are so helpful and are super wonderful with information.


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## FoggyForest (Aug 6, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> I forgot to ask; what did those people do to her ear? It's tagged or something. Is this permanent?
> View attachment 56664
> View attachment 56665


Our bun we had a couple years ago had a similar marking in his own ear. That's a tattoo. (The tattoo said NORTH, so we named the bun Oliver.)


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## SirLawrence (Aug 6, 2021)

FoggyForest said:


> Our bun we had a couple years ago had a similar marking in his own ear. That's a tattoo. (The tattoo said NORTH, so we named the bun Oliver.)



Little Ollie is officially my second favorite bun based on name alone. 

@Bunnygreen's Dr. Cheese is still #1...


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## FoggyForest (Aug 6, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> I tried Romaine lettuce today. She turned her nose up at it. No to grapes, no to strawberries, no to bananas, and no to lettuce. A big fat yes to pellets and hay. I don't get it, man. What it I can't get her to eat leafy greens? Are they vital or will she be fine on pellets and hay?


She needs t i m e


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## FoggyForest (Aug 6, 2021)

SirLawrence said:


> Little Ollie is officially my second favorite bun based on name alone.
> 
> Dr. Cheese is still #1...


WHERE IS THE BUN NAMED DR CHEESE *wheezes* this is cUte


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## SirLawrence (Aug 6, 2021)

FoggyForest said:


> WHERE IS THE BUN NAMED DR CHEESE *wheezes* this is cUte



Just search Dr. Cheese on these forums... Be prepared for cuteness....


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## Space Monkey (Aug 6, 2021)

4 bunny Mom said:


> That looks great. You will thank yourself later for getting rid of the cardboard. Honestly, rabbit urine is the worst and the cardboard would have absorbed a lot of that. (Just speaking from experience!). You will understand after a few times cleaning the liter box.  The meatloaf pan is great idea, as it is too small for her to jump in and soil the hay. She also won't be able to chew on it either. She will be scattering lots of poops around for a while, she is marking her territory. It will pass with time.
> Good Job!
> I hope you and your family are enjoying your new friend and getting to know her. Hopefully she has not sprayed you (or anything else again). Hope you are enjoying the site...JBun (and many others) are so helpful and are super wonderful with information.


Not so fast lol. She's so small that she actually did sit in the meatloaf pan and pooped all over in it. I was a little shocked to find her snuggled in it this morning.  I ordered this to try and it will arrive tomorrow:






Amazon.com : Hamiledyi Rabbit Hay Feeder, Bunny Food Manger Wooden Hay Manger Rack Grass Holder for Guinea Pig Chinchilla Hamster : Pet Supplies


Amazon.com : Hamiledyi Rabbit Hay Feeder, Bunny Food Manger Wooden Hay Manger Rack Grass Holder for Guinea Pig Chinchilla Hamster : Pet Supplies



www.amazon.com





I figured I can put it low enough for her to eat comfortably but high enough to discourage her from getting into it and soiling the hay.

She sprayed on my fiance yesterday after flopping on her side and getting pets and belly rubs from her for several minutes. Of course when it happened my fiance moved quickly and Freya took off doing binkies like she did to me.

I freaking love her.


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## Space Monkey (Aug 6, 2021)

Also, I gave Freya 1/2 cup of Romain lettuce and a tablespoon of pellets for breakfast and she ate it all up right away. Another 1/2 cup and another tablespoon this evening will put her at a cup of leafy greens and 1/8 of a cup of pellets for the day.

But I am going to give her an extra tablespoon of pellets for lunch because she's a growing girl.


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## odyssey~ (Aug 6, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> Not so fast lol. She's so small that she actually did sit in the meatloaf pan and pooped all over in it. I was a little shocked to find her snuggled in it this morning.  I ordered this to try and it will arrive tomorrow:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


haha!
If that doesn't work out I recommend hay bags- you can use tote bag and cut out a hole and fill it with hay! or you can use an old cereal box/shoebox whatever and cut out a hole for hay (this is what I do)
Freya seems adorable and you're doing a great job


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## Space Monkey (Aug 6, 2021)

She received her evening leafy greens (1/2 cup of Romaine Lettuce). I also added half of a grape and a small bite of banana. When I checked on her an hour later, the lettuce was gone and the fruit remained. Our girl just isn't interested in sweets/fruits. I guess this is good since she doesn't need them and is perfectly happy without a sweet treat.

It does make me worry about her spaying that will be coming up. I read that a good way to give them pain medicine is to add it to a small fruit mash. Otherwise straight from the syringe into the mouth, which I'm not confident she'll be open to.


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## JBun (Aug 6, 2021)

Some rabbits don't mind getting meloxicam, the usual pain med given for post surgery in rabbits. In fact a few of mine LOVE it and will get so excited when it's time to give meds. So your rabbit may actually take it willingly. You can always try practicing with a syringe now, starting with just plain water. Syringing always needs to be slow, giving the rabbit time to chew and swallow, so aspiration doesn't occur.

I'd say 1-2 cups greens per day for a rabbit the size of yours. You may have increased the greens amount too quickly. Usually it needs to be done one item at a time and a slow increase over at least a week, to give their digestive flora time to adapt to the new food. If you see any signs of digestive upset or mushy poop, then the sudden increase of lettuce is likely the cause.

Greens feeding info:









Greens & Veggies


[ Tablet users, try the "web" version by clicking on "web" at the bottom of this page for a better, user-friendly format . ]



rabbitsindoors.weebly.com













Vegetables







wabbitwiki.com





Medirabbit: vegetables


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## Space Monkey (Aug 6, 2021)

JBun said:


> Some rabbits don't mind getting meloxicam, the usual pain med given for post surgery in rabbits. In fact a few of mine LOVE it and will get so excited when it's time to give meds. So your rabbit may actually take it willingly. You can always try practicing with a syringe now, starting with just plain water. Syringing always needs to be slow, giving the rabbit time to chew and swallow, so aspiration doesn't occur.
> 
> I'd say 1-2 cups greens per day for a rabbit the size of yours. You may have increased the greens amount too quickly. Usually it needs to be done one item at a time and a slow increase over at least a week, to give their digestive flora time to adapt to the new food. If you see any signs of digestive upset or mushy poop, then the sudden increase of lettuce is likely the cause.
> 
> ...


There's so much contrary information out there. Some sites say double the greens of other sites, and same for pellets, and it seems most of them have different opinion on the amount to rabbits of X weight. Some say a half cup right away, some say a cup, some say just a bite. I didn't know where to start with the lack of consistency in the information available. This is why I opted to give a half cup of just one green (romaine lettuce) hours apart. She's now had 3 half cup servings since yesterday and so far no signs of anything being upset or mushy poops. I'll keep an eye open.


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## Space Monkey (Aug 6, 2021)

I'm very proud of her, although if she would have complications it wouldn't be her fault, just as it isn't our fault as humans if we're born with health issues or a predisposition to them. I've learned that she was eating Muesli, along with all the other rabbits the breeder/show person at the fair had. They didn't have pellets or hay (no hay at all!), just the seed and nut mix of whatever. I didn't know that I should have gotten two weeks worth of that upon getting her and that I should have slowly transitioned her into the pellets she has now (Oxbow Essentials Young Rabbit [Alfalfa]). It's been a week and she hasn't had any digestive problems at all. She was put on Timothy Hay and Orchard Grass right away, and again no issues. Lots and lots and healthy pooping and an extremely active bunny. And now with the leafy greens I was uncertain on the exact amount to start with, and although she can still develop some problems because of them, we're 3 servings and over 24 hours in without any issues at all with pooping or a decrease in her activity. She's taken new food, a new environment, and new people like a champion.


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## JBun (Aug 6, 2021)

I know it can be a bit confusing for anyone new to this. Everyone has a differing opinion on the greens, and most other things really. I've found that I take more into account, with opinions where several others say something similar and because it's what they've learned through personal experience, not just because they read it somewhere. But also weighed by what actual scientific and medical sources say, as well as what my own experience has been with my own rabbits, and the trial and error I've gone through with them.

I've encountered all sorts of different issues over the years. The most complicated being a few rabbits with megacolon. A lot of what I learned about sensitivities of a rabbits digestive tract and finding the right balance in the diet, was with them. Because of their condition they had to have a very specific diet, which took some trial and error on my part, until I found the right balance to keep them as healthy as possible, for as long as possible.

And just to show the importance, especially to rabbits that may be more prone to being sensitive. With my first megacolon rabbit years ago, I had no idea that anything was really wrong because I didn't really know a whole lot back then. And then it was too late and she passed because of dietary sensitivities and the sudden introduction of a new food causing stasis. So, for some rabbits these dietary recommendations are extremely critical.

For your rabbit and the greens amount, if you're feeding pellets, it's not such a big issue, as they get the needed vitamins from those. But if you're feeding a very reduced portion of pellets or none at all, then the veggies will be a more important part of the diet. I personally don't worry so much about the amount and just feed the amount and type that I want or feel/learned is best for my rabbits, based on their poop and urine output, weight maintenance, and if they remain healthy on a particular diet.

With new foods and what types to feed, the important aspects are the gradual introduction and not feeding an excess of high calcium veggies, especially if a rabbit is having a lot of calcium sediment in the urine, or thick creamy/gritty urine(a whole other health issue). I don't emphasize this just because some of the sites say this. The links I include in a post are for the most part, because it has info that I agree with because I've learned it's true through my own experience and experiences related by others, that are first hand accounts on here or other sites that I've looked at. So it's seeing what has caused problems for my own rabbits and what's helped, and what problems others have had and what's helped their rabbits.

Like gradually introducing new foods, especially high carb/sugary foods. I've learned that sometimes foods introduced too quickly with some rabbits, can cause issues. In particular, young rabbits with sensitive digestive tracts, who can even develop fatal enteric disease when this happens.

Now you may be lucky and find your rabbit is one of those with an iron gut, that nothing upsets. They're out there. I used to have a rabbit like that who could eat anything at any time, and never had an issue. She lived to be 10 and never had an episode of GI stasis. But because there are many more rabbits sensitive to changes and certain foods, slow food introduction is always the general recommendation I give here. That way if a rabbit does have a food sensitivity, then only a small portion has been introduced and so minimal upset will occur, and you know to remove that food from the diet. And the gradual introduction gives rabbits that are more sensitive to changes, time for their digestive system to adapt and acquire the microflora needed to process that new food without resulting in digestive upset.

The exception to gradually introducing food is with grass hay. Most grass hay varieties almost never cause digestive upset or issues. The rare cases I've read of involved rich early growth fresh grass and grass hay(too rich for some rabbits), grain hays with the grain still in them(too many carbs), and hay that has spoiled(makes rabbits sick). I would say grass(fresh or dried hay) is the most important aspect of a rabbits diet. The amount consumed and the balance of protein and fiber to help regulate weight, nutrition, and gut motility.

And all of this is from my experience and what I've learned having rabbits for the past 20 years. Some things you'll just learn by experience with your own rabbit, and what diet works best for her. For her, the sudden change from muesli to a healthy pellet was good and worked out. For other rabbits, to suddenly remove the muesli from their diet, even if it is unhealthy, and switch to a new less tasty but healthier pellet, may cause them to just stop eating and end up in stasis.. It actually happens pretty frequently. So it's going to be different for every rabbit and every situation. But the general recommendations are there for the rabbits that it may be an issue for.

With knowing if a particular diet is working for a rabbit, monitor droppings, urine, changes in eating, body condition/weight, and for unusual changes of behavior. If you find irregularities or unusual changes, then it can be a signal a certain food is causing an issue.






Guide to Bunny Poops — BUNS







bunssb.org













Urine


Urinary disorders in rabbits.




wabbitwiki.com













Anorexia and pseudoanorexia







wabbitwiki.com


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## Space Monkey (Aug 7, 2021)

OK! I had a momentary freak out until I looked it up. My fiance noticed a reddish orange marking on the carpet in the room Freya gets to free roam for a portion of the day. We passed it off as someone spilling something until we noticed a few more spots and realized it's Freya's pee! I thought she was peeing blood! But I looked it up and the rabbits can have this color of pee from time to time. Blood in the pee would be streaky and it isn't; it's all one reddish orange pigment. 

Is this because of the Romaine Lettuce? It's her only dietary change. And does this mean the Romaine needs to stop? Poops are normal and her activity is normal.


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## JBun (Aug 7, 2021)

Reddish orange is a normal color for rabbit urine. Plant pigments in the food they eat can cause it to have this coloring. So yes, it could be the romaine. If you look at the link on urine in my post above, it goes into detail about all of this stuff.


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## Space Monkey (Aug 7, 2021)

JBun said:


> Reddish orange is a normal color for rabbit urine. Plant pigments in the food they eat can cause it to have this coloring. So yes, it could be the romaine. If you look at the link on urine in my post above, it goes into detail about all of this stuff.


It's got to be the Romaine then because it's high in beta-carotene. In your link where it shows picture A next to picture B with only picture A being actual blood, it looks like picture B which isn't blood. Thank God. 

I assume it's safe to keep feeding Romaine???


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## JBun (Aug 7, 2021)

It's safe. Plant pigments don't cause any harm. The only issue you need to watch with the romaine is the sudden increase causing mushy poop. As long as that isn't happening, it's all good. I'm glad she decided she likes it. My rabbit's love romaine.


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## Space Monkey (Aug 7, 2021)

"Did you hear that monster, dad?!?!"

*AC kicked on...*


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## Space Monkey (Aug 7, 2021)

We're a little messy right now, so you'll have to forgive us for that. 

The hay manger arrived. I think this is going to work very well. It should allow us to keep the hay unsoiled and help us not to waste very much. I'm using the Aspen bedding I originally bought as, well, bedding, as litter until it's gone and then we will move on to something else.






We've come a long way in a week.


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## Space Monkey (Aug 7, 2021)

The manger in this position should discourage her from sitting in it. I don't think she could even if she tried. It's skinnier than the meatloaf pan and she barely fit into that. She still hasn't figured out that she could get on the Chewy box (makeshift hideaway) and escape if she really wanted to.


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## odyssey~ (Aug 7, 2021)

You're doing amazing!
I would say that the hay manger doesn't hold much hay but if you're home most of the time I don't see a problem 
Everything looks great and she's adorable <3


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## Space Monkey (Aug 7, 2021)

odyssey~ said:


> You're doing amazing!
> I would say that the hay manger doesn't hold much hay but if you're home most of the time I don't see a problem
> Everything looks great and she's adorable <3


I suspect that she isn't eating as much hay as I thought. It was hard to tell when it was just in the litter box getting smashed down.


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## odyssey~ (Aug 7, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> I suspect that she isn't eating as much hay as I thought. It was hard to tell when it was just in the litter box getting smashed down.


Ah, yeah, true. Probably quite a bit got soiled and flattened.


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## dogwoodblossoms (Aug 8, 2021)

So, I didn't read any of the comments but some things I need to point are;
The crate looks great! But the bottom looks plastic so please, put some sort of shaving down in it. I don't want your rabbit slipping and hurting herself. The pen is great, I just suggest you lock her up at night so that nothing bad happens to her. Make sure her pen also has carpet in it, again she can slip. If you do want to get another bunny I suggest a bigger cage though. And make sure that if you do get another rabbit and want to bond them, get a female. That way you don't have to pay for one to be fixed.
Hay is big. But never big her alfalfa hay, it has to much protein. Pellets should be hay based and she should only get 1/4 cup for every two pounds she weighs. Fresh foods are usually refused when they've never had any. Just put the fresh stuff in her pellet bowl she'll soon learn that she can eat them. (just remove them when she doesn't eat them after a day, the fresh stuff will ago bad) She'll start eating more hay over time. 
Another thing to sort of defend my fellow 4H-ers, even though I don't agree with small cages and not socializing rabbits here's the thing; 4H rabbit showers breed for quality of their breed, so all the rabbits that are up to the standard are usually passed onto pet homes. Most of the time when you purchase from a 4H or show breeder, the rabbit is very good at being handled, because their used to being posed by their owner. Now, babies as young as yours are shown how to pose at a young age (some start a 4 weeks) but since your rabbits breeder knew they were selling her they probably focused more on their show rabbits. I'm not saying it's right, it just happens. It's really easy for rabbits to be unsocialized, she was at the fair for a week or more. Also this is a kid who owned the rabbit, and kids aren't always responsible. All my rabbits are from show breeders and are really good with being handled and being messed with. I've noticed with pet breeders they tend to shy away.
Your bun might also just be shy in personality.
Now that I'm done with that, some things I wished I knew with my first rabbit was; diseases and having a exotic vet to call when something goes wrong.
Thanks for reading my long paragraph.
P.S. Toys and hideaways always are great ideas.


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## odyssey~ (Aug 8, 2021)

dogwoodblossoms said:


> .


just so you know if you look at the more recent posts you'll see that they have a towel down on the bottom and have many enrichment opprutunities such as hideouts and chew toys in their cage 
you'll also see that they've made lots of changes so what you said is covered mainly


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## dogwoodblossoms (Aug 8, 2021)

odyssey~ said:


> just so you know if you look at the more recent posts you'll see that they have a towel down on the bottom and have many enrichment opprutunities such as hideouts and chew toys in their cage
> you'll also see that they've made lots of changes so what you said is covered mainly


I figured as much; but thought since I was to lazy to read the comments lol, I'd add what I could think of  
Also, I hope my little--um--rant about show breeders was understandable.


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## Space Monkey (Aug 8, 2021)

dogwoodblossoms said:


> So, I didn't read any of the comments but some things I need to point are;
> The crate looks great! But the bottom looks plastic so please, put some sort of shaving down in it. I don't want your rabbit slipping and hurting herself. The pen is great, I just suggest you lock her up at night so that nothing bad happens to her. Make sure her pen also has carpet in it, again she can slip. If you do want to get another bunny I suggest a bigger cage though. And make sure that if you do get another rabbit and want to bond them, get a female. That way you don't have to pay for one to be fixed.
> Hay is big. But never big her alfalfa hay, it has to much protein. Pellets should be hay based and she should only get 1/4 cup for every two pounds she weighs. Fresh foods are usually refused when they've never had any. Just put the fresh stuff in her pellet bowl she'll soon learn that she can eat them. (just remove them when she doesn't eat them after a day, the fresh stuff will ago bad) She'll start eating more hay over time.
> Another thing to sort of defend my fellow 4H-ers, even though I don't agree with small cages and not socializing rabbits here's the thing; 4H rabbit showers breed for quality of their breed, so all the rabbits that are up to the standard are usually passed onto pet homes. Most of the time when you purchase from a 4H or show breeder, the rabbit is very good at being handled, because their used to being posed by their owner. Now, babies as young as yours are shown how to pose at a young age (some start a 4 weeks) but since your rabbits breeder knew they were selling her they probably focused more on their show rabbits. I'm not saying it's right, it just happens. It's really easy for rabbits to be unsocialized, she was at the fair for a week or more. Also this is a kid who owned the rabbit, and kids aren't always responsible. All my rabbits are from show breeders and are really good with being handled and being messed with. I've noticed with pet breeders they tend to shy away.
> ...


We've come a long way and her habitat is much different than it was 8 days ago. 

From everything I've read on rabbits her age (17 weeks) I'll have to disagree on the Alfalfa. She's on Oxbow Essentials Young Rabbit Alfalfa pellets. Her age, being a growing girl, makes them good for her. However, she's got Timothy and Orchard hay to chew on all day.


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## dogwoodblossoms (Aug 8, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> We've come a long way and her habitat is much different than it was 8 days ago.
> 
> From everything I've read on rabbits her age (17 weeks) I'll have to disagree on the Alfalfa. She's on Oxbow Essentials Young Rabbit Alfalfa pellets. Her age, being a growing girl, makes them good for her. However, she's got Timothy and Orchard hay to chew on all day.


This I do agree with (honestly I forgot she wasn't a sr.) I just don't really think of it for any rabbits. I've personally never used it. I think odyssey~ had it all covered from the beginning. 
I hope your rabbit does well! Enjoy, rabbits are really amazing animals and pets!


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## Flipgirl24 (Aug 8, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> She received her evening leafy greens (1/2 cup of Romaine Lettuce). I also added half of a grape and a small bite of banana. When I checked on her an hour later, the lettuce was gone and the fruit remained. Our girl just isn't interested in sweets/fruits. I guess this is good since she doesn't need them and is perfectly happy without a sweet treat.
> 
> It does make me worry about her spaying that will be coming up. I read that a good way to give them pain medicine is to add it to a small fruit mash. Otherwise straight from the syringe into the mouth, which I'm not confident she'll be open to.



My vet prescribes honey flavored Meloxicam. My bunny loves it.


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## Space Monkey (Aug 10, 2021)

There is some language and VERY awkward moments in this one because it was only meant for us... Until Freya was naughty! I'm sorry I have to share. Forgive me.









Sprayed 🤦🏻‍♂️







youtube.com


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## JBun (Aug 10, 2021)

Did you see the happy little head shake she gave just as she did it. She totally knew she was being naughty


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## ArtistChibi (Aug 11, 2021)

JBun said:


> Did you see the happy little head shake she gave just as she did it. She totally knew she was being naughty


They're mischievous and smart. Of course Freya was going to shake while doing it.


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## BunnyMommaDrea (Aug 11, 2021)

Just want to say that I have read everyone's post in this most interesting and informative thread. The pictures including. I just love all I am learning as a new bunny mom myself. I've had buns when I was younger but that was a long long long time ago and things were apparently way different then, perhaps less was known about the true care they require. Whatever the case I to read and see so many conflicting things about what to feed or not feed them, how much to feed them, etc.. I did however post a new exotic vet I found near me whom I am looking towards getting my bun neutered by possibly and on his website he has a care sheet that is very thorough IMHO. 

Well like someone here complimented me, your asking so many great questions so your clearly on the right track to being a very good bunny parent. Welcome, I am new here too. ~Drea and Peanut


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## Space Monkey (Aug 11, 2021)

JBun said:


> Did you see the happy little head shake she gave just as she did it. She totally knew she was being naughty


This is the second time she's sprayed me. She's also sprayed my son and my fiance once each. Every time she does it, she does that binky shake thing. It looks like pure excitement that she gets to pee on people.  

Do rabbits only thump when they're scared, or do they also thump when they want something and are mad that you're not giving it? Each morning when I go into the room she stays in to feed her, she gets super excited when she hears the door and the bag of pellets. And then a little later after she's eaten I go back and let her into her pen. She gets super excited for this too. But she also thumps a few times in-between the excitement and the licking my hands for letting her out of the cage (she gets locked up overnight so she doesn't escape and hurt herself when we're sleeping). The thumping is accompanied by intensely chewing and pulling at the pen in an attempt to get out and free roam, which she can't do until 3pm (and she gets to stay out until bed time). Nothing about her body language or the way she acts makes me believe she's at all scared, but instead throwing a tantrum that she has to wait to get fully out.


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## SirLawrence (Aug 11, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> Do rabbits only thump when they're scared, or do they also thump when they want something and are mad that you're not giving it?



Yep. They thump for all sorts of reasons. My Lucas will thump to announce his entrance into a room he was not just in. Just so we are all aware of his presence.


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## Space Monkey (Aug 11, 2021)

SirLawrence said:


> Yep. They thump for all sorts of reasons. My Lucas will thump to announce his entrance into a room he was not just in. Just so we are all aware of his presence.


"The King has arrived! *Thump* Let it be known that I'm HERE."


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## SirLawrence (Aug 11, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> "The King has arrived! *Thump* Let it be known that I'm HERE."



Sometimes he will oink with all his might as well. It's adorable. He tends to be very noisy for a rabbit! (which is not at all noisy )


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## ArtistChibi (Aug 11, 2021)

Sounds like Freya is being a little diva. Think she and Xiao Wu will get along?  Xiao Wu tends to act similar. She will, literally, jump on you if you're not up at exactly 7AM to give her greens in the morning. And she will pee on you if you don't say good night to her. She'll also make it known that one forgot to clean the litterbox by nipping you and glaring.


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## odyssey~ (Aug 11, 2021)

She's a drama queen for sure!
Odyssey thumps when I don't let her out early enough in the morning- she'll do it SOOOO loud until someone goes to let her out. XD


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## JBun (Aug 11, 2021)

Yes, they'll do it for a variety of reasons - happy, excited, impatient, annoyed, upset, scared, or to get your attention. A few of my rabbits used to do it when I would let them out to play in a room they didn't usually get to be in. They would start running around doing binkies and zoomies, and pre binky or zoomie they would thump first. It's like pre take off, or getting themselves ready. Though most often I would get thumped at for doing something that annoyed them. Or when you get the double thump, you know they're REALLY ticked off at you


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## Space Monkey (Aug 20, 2021)

We love to eat.


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## Button (Aug 22, 2021)

Space Monkey said:


> Thank you! I'll certainly take time to digest all of this.
> 
> Right away I'll say: She is at the 1/8-1/4 cup of pellets. She's eating a lot of them. I need to try to "spice up" the hay for her though. She's not that big of a fan yet.
> 
> ...


She is absolutely adorable! I love her coloring. Just out of curiosity, do you know her breed? I watched the video and I can see that she is well loved and going to be spoiled often. Just a bit of advice.. if you have any younger kids (I’m not sure of your situation) just make sure you are watching them while they are with her. I have a bunny that loves me (I’m 20) but freaks out when others hold her.she was young and I know now not to just let anyone pet her. She is now accustomed to others as she has had bunny sitter come and take care of her while I was gone. So again just wanted to make you aware.


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## Space Monkey (Aug 22, 2021)

Button said:


> She is absolutely adorable! I love her coloring. Just out of curiosity, do you know her breed? I watched the video and I can see that she is well loved and going to be spoiled often. Just a bit of advice.. if you have any younger kids (I’m not sure of your situation) just make sure you are watching them while they are with her. I have a bunny that loves me (I’m 20) but freaks out when others hold her.she was young and I know now not to just let anyone pet her. She is now accustomed to others as she has had bunny sitter come and take care of her while I was gone. So again just wanted to make you aware.


She's a Mini Satin.

We're in a completely different place than we were 3 weeks ago when I created this thread. She very quickly bonded with us (especially me  ) shortly afterwards. She's a little piggie, loves to play and be pet, a binky queen, full of energy. Her favorite thing is grooming someone while she receives pets in return. We don't even use her pen anymore. She gets the whole room she stays in, only going into the cage at night so she doesn't hurt herself while everyone is sleeping.









We need to work on table manners.







youtube.com


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## Space Monkey (Aug 29, 2021)

I made some modifications to Freya's area. I was able to expand the pen by using the wall are part of the fencing, allowing more room and more stuff. I think she'll be happy to dwell here during times where she's alone.


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## Semac (Aug 30, 2021)

You’ve got an excellent set up for your bun. She is very cute.


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