# Messy litter box



## Marcelle (Jun 1, 2020)

Hello!! My little girl Cherry is always mixing her litter with her hay. I use a low to the ground but large all around Rubbermaid container. Her paper litter goes on one end and her hay the other. When she goes in there the first thing she does is is push all the litter from one end over to the hay end. I’ve tried lessening the amount of litter but she still does it. No matter how often I clean her litter her hay is always mixed with her poop pellets and her urine. A lot of hay is wasted because of course I won’t force her to eat the soiled hay which she clearly doesn’t want anymore. I’m struggling to figure out a diy setup so that this stops happening. She has a large enclosure (a dog x-pen) which is always open and she has free roam of my bedroom along with my other bunny who also has his own separate enclosure. She does the same to his litter/hay box as well. I’d love any suggestions. Please help!


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## bunnylove2024 (Jun 1, 2020)

Put both hay in some type of pull setup so that if she wants hay she can pull it to eat it but she cant shove it all over!


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## Marcelle (Jun 1, 2020)

bunnylove2024 said:


> Put both hay in some type of pull setup so that if she wants hay she can pull it to eat it but she cant shove it all over!


Thanks for the reply but I don’t get! Could you give me an example of how I would do that? xx


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## bunnylove2024 (Jun 1, 2020)

Ok, look up diy hay feeders for rabbits... then see which one would work best for you. Put them in the cages so they can't push the hay around and that should help. Does that make more sense, I was a little bit vague before.


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## Marcelle (Jun 1, 2020)

bunnylove2024 said:


> Ok, look up diy hay feeders for rabbits... then see which one would work best for you. Put them in the cages so they can't push the hay around and that should help. Does that make more sense, I was a little bit vague before.


It does. Thank you!!


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## bunnylove2024 (Jun 1, 2020)

Marcelle said:


> It does. Thank you!!


Happy to help!


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## Blue eyes (Jun 1, 2020)

Just be really careful about what type of hay feeder you choose. There are loads of them out there with quite small openings. Those should be avoided as it makes it just too difficult for bunny to get at the hay. That's not good! So look for ones with very large openings. 

The hay feeder should go over the litter box so excess still falls in the litter box. 

Another perspective is to know that wasted hay is to be expected with rabbits. They like to pick through hay for the choicest pieces. There really isn't anything wrong with what your bunny is doing. She's shoving it around and enjoying it. She won't eat soiled hay. Just add fresh hay directly on top a couple times per day. That way she'll always have fresh hay available. 

Here's a 'before & after' photo of my litter box. The used one is about to get cleaned. Otherwise, it would be ready for another batch of fresh hay on top.


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## Marcelle (Jun 1, 2020)

Blue eyes said:


> Just be really careful about what type of hay feeder you choose. There are loads of them out there with quite small openings. Those should be avoided as it makes it just too difficult for bunny to get at the hay. That's not good! So look for ones with very large openings.
> 
> The hay feeder should go over the litter box so excess still falls in the litter box.
> 
> ...


That’s very helpful thank you. I was thinking of making my own and I will definitely make big holes. I wasn’t sure about the stars hay racks as there are a lot of openings but as you said the openings are small. So the picture of the used box should get totally cleaned out once it looks like that right? She gets hers messed up like that in much less than a week. Thanks for the visual!!


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## zuppa (Jun 1, 2020)

Marcelle said:


> Hello!! My little girl Cherry is always mixing her litter with her hay. I use a low to the ground but large all around Rubbermaid container. Her paper litter goes on one end and her hay the other. When she goes in there the first thing she does is is push all the litter from one end over to the hay end. I’ve tried lessening the amount of litter but she still does it. No matter how often I clean her litter her hay is always mixed with her poop pellets and her urine. A lot of hay is wasted because of course I won’t force her to eat the soiled hay which she clearly doesn’t want anymore. I’m struggling to figure out a diy setup so that this stops happening. She has a large enclosure (a dog x-pen) which is always open and she has free roam of my bedroom along with my other bunny who also has his own separate enclosure. She does the same to his litter/hay box as well. I’d love any suggestions. Please help!


Hi, can you post some photo of your setup? Some rabbits waste so much hay when you place feeder over their litterbox, sometimes you can find another way to feed them hay without wasting so much.


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## Blue eyes (Jun 1, 2020)

Marcelle said:


> That’s very helpful thank you. I was thinking of making my own and I will definitely make big holes. I wasn’t sure about the stars hay racks as there are a lot of openings but as you said the openings are small. So the picture of the used box should get totally cleaned out once it looks like that right? She gets hers messed up like that in much less than a week. Thanks for the visual!!


The box on the right is ready to be cleaned, however, do not go by how it_ looks_ but by how (if) it _smells_. It will _look_ like that pretty much within a day or so. But, if the right litter is being used (the wood pellets are great) there will be_ no _odor whatsoever for a full week (one bun). [I have found paper crumbles litter (not paper pellets) to do very little for odor control.]

This provides a little more detail (my website) on the litter setup:








Odor-free Home


[ Tablet users, try the "web" version by clicking on "web" at the bottom of this page for a better, user-friendly format . ]



rabbitsindoors.weebly.com





And this shows a couple hay-feeder options (though, as @zuppa mentioned, they can cause a mess too). I don't use them but some like to.








Hay


[ Tablet users, try the "web" version by clicking on "web" at the bottom of this page for a better, user-friendly format . ]



rabbitsindoors.weebly.com


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## Eve84 (Jun 1, 2020)

I really like those hay racks. They have a top so the rabbits can sit on top but can’t pee or poo on the hay and the hay gets stored away neatly and with easy access for the rabbits to eat.


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## Marcelle (Jun 1, 2020)

Blue eyes said:


> The box on the right is ready to be cleaned, however, do not go by how it_ looks_ but by how (if) it _smells_. It will _look_ like that pretty much within a day or so. But, if the right litter is being used (the wood pellets are great) there will be_ no _odor whatsoever for a full week (one bun). [I have found paper crumbles litter (not paper pellets) to do very little for odor control.]
> 
> This provides a little more detail (my website) on the litter setup:
> 
> ...


That’s awesome thank you. Yeah the paper litter stinks I just thought it was best for the rabbits. I’ve always noticed wood shavings which I stay clear of. I’m going to try the pellets I had no idea! Thanks again!!


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## Marcelle (Jun 1, 2020)

Blue eyes said:


> The box on the right is ready to be cleaned, however, do not go by how it_ looks_ but by how (if) it _smells_. It will _look_ like that pretty much within a day or so. But, if the right litter is being used (the wood pellets are great) there will be_ no _odor whatsoever for a full week (one bun). [I have found paper crumbles litter (not paper pellets) to do very little for odor control.]
> 
> This provides a little more detail (my website) on the litter setup:
> 
> ...


Ps. I love your website can’t wait to explore it more!


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## Marcelle (Jun 1, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> I really like those hay racks. They have a top so the rabbits can sit on top but can’t pee or poo on the hay and the hay gets stored away neatly and with easy access for the rabbits to eat.


That looks like a great setup I’ll look on Canadian amazon hopefully I’ll find that one!


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## Marcelle (Jun 1, 2020)

zuppa said:


> Hi, can you post some photo of your setup? Some rabbits waste so much hay when you place feeder over their litterbox, sometimes you can find another way to feed them hay without wasting so much.


This is the setup I have. Now I put the hay in a separate litter box that I placed inside that larger box until I get a better permanent solution.


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## Blue eyes (Jun 1, 2020)

Oh... see that now. No wonder she pushes it around. It looks like a wonderfully fun playground the way it appears in the photo!  All of that paper on one side and hay on the other, on the slick plastic, is just begging to be pushed about.


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## Marcelle (Jun 1, 2020)

Blue eyes said:


> Oh... see that now. No wonder she pushes it around. It looks like a wonderfully fun playground the way it appears in the photo!  All of that paper on one side and hay on the other, on the slick plastic, is just begging to be pushed about.


Yeah she has a ball stretching out and pushing it around. Seems to satisfy her


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## Allen Wrider (Jun 2, 2020)

Hey there! I had this same problem until just recently. I was having a hard time litter training my rabbits because of it; they would just sit on the fresh hay and scoot their butts over the lip of the litter box to pee on the side. It got really messy and hard to maintain quickly, and I have really bad anxiety so my energy for dealing with these things can get low. I will be the first to admit my bunnies didn't have the quality of life that I wanted for them-- but when I was looking for DIY feeders, I found a tutorial about making one out of plastic storage bins:



A couple things I found: you are going to need power tools like is mentioned in the video. Trying to cut with an exacto-knife or scissors is not gonna do it. I personally had to have my dad assist me. 

You'll need to test the holes as you cut, so you can see what size your bun really needs. Stick some hay in, and offer it to them. All you need is for the rabbit to make a quick attempt, you'll know by their hesitance and the size of their face whether or not the hole is a good fit. 

Make sure the boxes aren't too deep, because your rabbit WILL stick their head in to try and get hay, and even try to dig it out. If the boxes go too far back, your rabbit will not be able to get it all and will be digging at the box a lot more, which is LOUD. 

Get boxes with locking lids! The snap on plastic lid boxes may be cheap and appealing, but the lids have more of a change of snapping off with any excessive pulling. Locking lids cost more but are worth it in the long run.


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## Marcelle (Jun 2, 2020)

Allen Wrider said:


> Hey there! I had this same problem until just recently. I was having a hard time litter training my rabbits because of it; they would just sit on the fresh hay and scoot their butts over the lip of the litter box to pee on the side. It got really messy and hard to maintain quickly, and I have really bad anxiety so my energy for dealing with these things can get low. I will be the first to admit my bunnies didn't have the quality of life that I wanted for them-- but when I was looking for DIY feeders, I found a tutorial about making one out of plastic storage bins:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That looks totally doable and actually perfect for what I need. The options that come up when you look online are so overwhelming. The litter boxes I use now look pretty much the same as that feeder with locks where the handles are. I can go back to the store and just get the smaller size. It’s good to know I’m not the only one with this struggle and it is totally a struggle. Thanks for posting your first hand knowledge. It looks like you gave me my answer


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## Eve84 (Jun 2, 2020)

Be careful that the plastic won’t be to sharp! I would be worried as it is so bendy and thin that they would be able to squeeze their head through and try to pull it out again and than the plastic might be very sharp that they injure themselves badly.... also once they eaten the first hay quickly they can’t reach the rest of the hay from the design the box is. 

I have an maybe easier idea but need to get a picture up first to be able to explain


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## Eve84 (Jun 2, 2020)

This one for example you can easily build yourself out of branches and pull them tight with wool or wire.


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## Eve84 (Jun 2, 2020)

Or this one you can build yourself with branches too just get any sort of top to cover it it could also be plastic but you will have to attach it anyhow or place something heavy on it


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## Eve84 (Jun 2, 2020)

Or if you have any sort of tunnel just put hay in there but it will make a mess but keeps the hay in there clean


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## Blue eyes (Jun 2, 2020)

Just be sure that any hay feeder has very large opening so that bunny doesn't have to work at it to get the hay.


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## Marcelle (Jun 2, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> Be careful that the plastic won’t be to sharp! I would be worried as it is so bendy and thin that they would be able to squeeze their head through and try to pull it out again and than the plastic might be very sharp that they injure themselves badly.... also once they eaten the first hay quickly they can’t reach the rest of the hay from the design the box is.
> 
> I have an maybe easier idea but need to get a picture up first to be able to explain


I’m gonna try this idea out today and see how it goes in the meantime. I’ll wait for a picture when you have time to post it that would be wonderful. Thank you!


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## Eve84 (Jun 2, 2020)

Marcelle said:


> I’m gonna try this idea out today and see how it goes in the meantime. I’ll wait for a picture when you have time to post it that would be wonderful. Thank you!



I actually meant this picture below, that it would be fairly easy to build if you can find branches nearby. 

But if you want to try it with the plastic box it’s fine, I just wanted to mention my personal worry about it, but it might be totally fine and I worry for no reason!


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## zuppa (Jun 2, 2020)

Allen Wrider said:


> Hey there! I had this same problem until just recently. I was having a hard time litter training my rabbits because of it; they would just sit on the fresh hay and scoot their butts over the lip of the litter box to pee on the side. It got really messy and hard to maintain quickly, and I have really bad anxiety so my energy for dealing with these things can get low. I will be the first to admit my bunnies didn't have the quality of life that I wanted for them-- but when I was looking for DIY feeders, I found a tutorial about making one out of plastic storage bins:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The idea is great but I don't use plastic around my rabbits, I have some chewers here, they would chew on it and it is actually quite tempting since they like making holes bigger to get to hay quicker. I had some pics i took where my rabbit chewed on his plastic hide and toys, it can be very dangerous so I am trying to replace all plastic where they can potentially chew with wood or cardboard. 

Cardboard box would actually work similar as in this video, you would need to replace it more often though but it's just some additional fun for your rabbits.


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## Allen Wrider (Jun 2, 2020)

Eve84 said:


> Be careful that the plastic won’t be to sharp! I would be worried as it is so bendy and thin that they would be able to squeeze their head through and try to pull it out again and than the plastic might be very sharp that they injure themselves badly.... also once they eaten the first hay quickly they can’t reach the rest of the hay from the design the box is.
> 
> I have an maybe easier idea but need to get a picture up first to be able to explain


In the video they do actually tell you to sand it down, but I found I didn't need to do much? As long as you cut properly with the right tools it doesn't leave edges. 

Anyway as long as the OP follows the tutorial it should be fine


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## Allen Wrider (Jun 2, 2020)

zuppa said:


> The idea is great but I don't use plastic around my rabbits, I have some chewers here, they would chew on it and it is actually quite tempting since they like making holes bigger to get to hay quicker. I had some pics i took where my rabbit chewed on his plastic hide and toys, it can be very dangerous so I am trying to replace all plastic where they can potentially chew with wood or cardboard.
> 
> Cardboard box would actually work similar as in this video, you would need to replace it more often though but it's just some additional fun for your rabbits.


That's totally fair and a good idea. I have chewers too, but so far we're a week strong and the most they do is dig at the box holes to try and get to the good stuff. Quinn tried a bite a couple times but the plastic is hard and fairly unappealing to her, since what she really wants is the food inside.

Of course it's all experimental. I'm thinking of adding another hole to each of my girls' boxes so they can get the hay in the middle without chewing or digging, but again, so far it works well. It's not going to be for everybunny though!


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## zuppa (Jun 2, 2020)

Allen Wrider said:


> That's totally fair and a good idea. I have chewers too, but so far we're a week strong and the most they do is dig at the box holes to try and get to the good stuff. Quinn tried a bite a couple times but the plastic is hard and fairly unappealing to her, since what she really wants is the food inside.
> 
> Of course it's all experimental. I'm thinking of adding another hole to each of my girls' boxes so they can get the hay in the middle without chewing or digging, but again, so far it works well. It's not going to be for everybunny though!


I had some pics of chewed plastic somewhere here already posted give me a sec I will repost if I can find them quickly


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## zuppa (Jun 2, 2020)

Here we go. The last photo with baby keys it took literally a few mins, I just gave him new toys they were hanging from his ceiling and in a few mins I just came back and I saw him chewing them with a great appetite!






















I have another half chewed plastic hide they just tried to make another exit in there, also made the original exit bigger. i never took pic will post if I will later


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## Allen Wrider (Jun 3, 2020)

zuppa said:


> Here we go. The last photo with baby keys it took literally a few mins, I just gave him new toys they were hanging from his ceiling and in a few mins I just came back and I saw him chewing them with a great appetite!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, some bunnies are just eaters! I'm glad that you're keeping their welfare in mind and removing plastic from their environment since that seems to be what's best for them. Mine like book binding glue! We had to pack and store my dad's really old Chevrolet manuals from the 1980s because the bunnies kept trying to eat the spine when they free roamed 

Again, totally fair suggestion based on experience. I get it.


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## cuteus (Jun 3, 2020)

I eventually settled for a corner litter tray with natural care fresh paper based bedding and topped with hay.. I buy the large bags of hay and used timothy for bedding and put orchard grass where bunny eats in the corners. I was actually interviewed to foster for the rescue group in my area and they don't use anything but hay and told me not to waste money on care fresh. I use still because it absorbs. Some bunnies also drink their urine for some reason. Bunnies also change their behaviors for no apparent reason and begin chewing on things they used to ignore, like plastic. I am surprised of the things I found chewed that he used to not even look at. So, keep an eye on that. I also started buying only Oxbow after I found weird looking chunks in Kaytee's hay. Some bags are good and some not, Oxbow is more consistent. Rabbits are free roaming and watched carefully most of the time. Remote controls and controllers are out of the way or placed face down. Wires covered. One bunny loves paper and magazines, so I learned to hide that for him and not the other. Oh! The rescue group has not called for help with anything. Oh well!


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## Blue eyes (Jun 3, 2020)

cuteus said:


> I eventually settled for a corner litter tray with natural care fresh paper based bedding and topped with hay.. I buy the large bags of hay and used timothy for bedding and put orchard grass where bunny eats in the corners. I was actually interviewed to foster for the rescue group in my area and they don't use anything but hay and told me not to waste money on care fresh. I use still because it absorbs. Some bunnies also drink their urine for some reason. Bunnies also change their behaviors for no apparent reason and begin chewing on things they used to ignore, like plastic. I am surprised of the things I found chewed that he used to not even look at. So, keep an eye on that. I also started buying only Oxbow after I found weird looking chunks in Kaytee's hay. Some bags are good and some not, Oxbow is more consistent. Rabbits are free roaming and watched carefully most of the time. Remote controls and controllers are out of the way or placed face down. Wires covered. One bunny loves paper and magazines, so I learned to hide that for him and not the other. Oh! The rescue group has not called for help with anything. Oh well!


Hmmm.. that is very odd that the rescue group only uses hay for litter. It does nothing for odor.  

Just be prepared to be changing the litter box quite often. The corner boxes are quite small (will get smelly sooner regardless of what is used inside) and the Carefresh doesn't do much for odor control, imo. 

You may also want to consider getting hay from a feed store rather than bagged hay that does often sit in a warehouse for months before being shipped to a store. The added advantage to getting the hay fresh and in bulk is that it is infinitely cheaper. A bale of hay being used generously can last 8+ months and cost a mere $18.


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## cuteus (Jun 4, 2020)

Blue eyes said:


> Hmmm.. that is very odd that the rescue group only uses hay for litter. It does nothing for odor.
> 
> Just be prepared to be changing the litter box quite often. The corner boxes are quite small (will get smelly sooner regardless of what is used inside) and the Carefresh doesn't do much for odor control, imo.
> 
> You may also want to consider getting hay from a feed store rather than bagged hay that does often sit in a warehouse for months before being shipped to a store. The added advantage to getting the hay fresh and in bulk is that it is infinitely cheaper. A bale of hay being used generously can last 8+ months and cost a mere $18.


It seems House Rabbit Society and most rescue groups only use hay. I have had my older bunny since 2008 so we have worked out most kinks, including the litter box ones. Buns are not big. I find Oxbow hay dust free and quite fresh. THe bags have breathing holes. So far, so good. Items in a feed store might not have as stringent quality controls as Oxbow has. Plus, the ones I have been to, the storage is not tight, and rodents and other insects might lay eggs. And, I don't know the source of the hay, how it was farmed, harvested, and stored before sending to the feed store. Not too many to choose from where I live. Oxbow has a reputation to protect. I pay $11 for the large bag and lasts about 4 months. We are picky caregivers, even buy bottled or filtered water. I got concerned after reading that some hay had mold and made bunnies sick. I might be wrong, but a bale of hay would seem to be more prone to that. Things we do for the buns, a lot of people would not understand!


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## Mehidk (Jun 4, 2020)

cuteus said:


> It seems House Rabbit Society and most rescue groups only use hay. I have had my older bunny since 2008 so we have worked out most kinks, including the litter box ones. Buns are not big. I find Oxbow hay dust free and quite fresh. THe bags have breathing holes. So far, so good. Items in a feed store might not have as stringent quality controls as Oxbow has. Plus, the ones I have been to, the storage is not tight, and rodents and other insects might lay eggs. And, I don't know the source of the hay, how it was farmed, harvested, and stored before sending to the feed store. Not too many to choose from where I live. Oxbow has a reputation to protect. I pay $11 for the large bag and lasts about 4 months. We are picky caregivers, even buy bottled or filtered water. I got concerned after reading that some hay had mold and made bunnies sick. I might be wrong, but a bale of hay would seem to be more prone to that. Things we do for the buns, a lot of people would not understand!


So you get a large bag of Oxbow hay for only $11 AND it lasts you 4 months? I buy a large bag of hay from House Rabbit Society HQ for $13 (when I say large, its 3 ft high type of large) and it will last maybe 2 months? Dang, what am I missing out on lol. But to be fair, my rabbit munches on the hay often. For instance, I pile up a good amount to last her throughout the night when I sleep and by morning I have to refill it again.


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## Blue eyes (Jun 4, 2020)

cuteus said:


> It seems House Rabbit Society and most rescue groups only use hay. I pay $11 for the large bag and lasts about 4 months. I got concerned after reading that some hay had mold and made bunnies sick. I might be wrong, but a bale of hay would seem to be more prone to that.



I've worked with rabbit rescues on the east coast and in CA and AZ. None have used only hay for the litter. HRS has several suggestions for appropriate litter -- not just hay. They do warn that using hay only requires daily cleaning.

But I see you were planning on putting Carefresh underneath. I was just wanting to offer an alternative (wood pellets) that are better at absorbing odor and allow longer time between litter box cleanups. 

Like @Mehidk , I am confused how a_ bag_ of hay can last 4 months-- especially with daily clean outs. By large bag do you mean the 90 oz?? Just don't see how that would be enough for consumption, let alone for litter too. 

Perhaps your rabbits aren't eating enough hay?? They should be eating their body size in hay every day. 

I put hay on top of the wood pellets and refresh it twice per day. That way they always have fresh hay to munch. I don't worry about hay waste since I get it so cheap. I check the bale visually before purchase and have a few places that have good hay. Mold, dust, insects are possible in any hay. I keep an eye out for that, but in the decades I've been getting baled hay, I've not had a problem with any of that from where I've purchased.

Bagged hay is fine for you to use too.  Again, I was just offering an alternative that could save money and so allow one to not worry about hay "waste."


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