# *sigh* Ruby..



## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 16, 2007)

Well, as some of you may remember Ruby was diagnosed with a 'lung infection ' (which my vet confirmed later was actually a URI) a few weeks ago. She was on a 14 day treatment of marbocyl antibiotic, which after she finished the vet recommended leaving her without treatment to see if she improved. Initially she did, although she was still sneezing her sneezing fits were much better and happenedless often, however spending time with her today I've noticed she has gotten worse again.She sneezesmore often and her sneezing fits areworse (although not as bad as they were to begin with) and sometimes her breathing seems a little fast.:?

Back to the vets we go... :sigh:

Vibes/prayers/thoughts for my girl please, she doesn't deserve this just after her birthday!:rollseyes


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## AngelnSnuffy (Aug 16, 2007)

Oh no, poor Rubes. Sounds like more meds will be in order for her, I hope that is all. My thoughts and prayers are with you and Ruby. I agree, she doesn't deserve this right after her birthday.


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## ra7751 (Aug 16, 2007)

Hi,

I think an excellent belated birthday present would be a round of Zithromax. The enrofloxacins just don't do the job anymore. The entire family of those type drugs along with the sulfanomides just have lost their punch due to the misuse and overuse thru the years of being considered "safe". They were prescribed and administered when their use was not appropriate and now we have some resistant bacteria. I have been using Zithromax in treating URIs and in conjunction with penicillin to treat abscesses and have had perfect success so far. Ask your doctor about using it. 

Randy


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## Phinnsmommy (Aug 16, 2007)

Oh geez. Not again.

Good luck! :hug:


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 17, 2007)

Thanks guys.

Randy - I've been doing a bit of research on Zithromax after what you said, and although I am keen on using it if it will make Ruby better I have heard that it is ahigh risk drugfor causing gut dysbiosis.:? Is this something you have ever experienced when treating your buns with it? Or do you think it is worth the risk?

I'll definitely ask my vet aboutthe drugand see what he thinks.


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 18, 2007)

I've just got back from the vets, it's not good news.It turns out Ruby has a Lower Respiratory infection which the vet suspects to be pasturella. He spent ages explaining to me the state of her lungs and how basically she can never recover from this, she will always have flare-ups of infections due to the abscesses in her lungs and will have to be treated for them for the rest of her life. He checked over Millie and said she is ok, but I need to keep an eye on her to make sure she doesn't become ill as well.

I asked about changing the medication but he recommended staying with Marbocyl as he has found it affective against respiratory infections.

I just can't believe it. Mypoor Ruby.:bigtears:


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 18, 2007)

I was just wondering, can liquid antibiotics be given disguised in food somehow, and if so, does anyone have any suggestions for how to do it?

I've just been thinking about the long term implications of this, Ruby is going to be on meds a lot of the time but she hates it and becomes very distant from me because of it. I have just won her trust back and I don't want to lose it again, or cause her any unnecessary stress.:?Finding a non-stressful away of administering her meds would be the best solution all round.


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## Haley (Aug 18, 2007)

Its very odd to me to hear that he's putting her back on the same meds that didnt work last time. If they didnt kill it last time they wont this time. You need something stronger.

Also, how did he diagnose the LRI? Did he do xrays? I dont know how he could knoe something like that without xrays. Even then, respiratory infections are serious in rabbits and she should be on something stronger, or try something like nebulizing her to get the meds directly to her lungs. 

Are there any other vets who could give you a second opinion? I think Id be looking around. 

As for disguising the meds, you can try lots of things. Sometimes I use canned pumpkin, juice or baby food. Are the meds flavored at all? Since other foods and things can cause drug interactions the absolute best method is to call around to local vets or chemists and see if anyone can compound the liquid for you to make it taste like something yummy.

I hope Ruby's better soon. ray:


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 18, 2007)

I know, I thought it was very strange too.:?I asked him if she would be better on a stronger drug but he said it wasn't the strength of the drug that would make the difference, it's about understanding how rabbits fight infections because it is so different to how cats and dogs do it, so a strongerantibiotic won't work.:?

No, she didn't have an x-ray,the vetsaid that when listening to herchest he couldn't hear much from the bottom of her lungs, indicating that the infection was down there. I had so many questions lined up for him, including if she should have a culture, but as soon as I heard about how she couldn't get better from this I was so shocked they all flew out my head.:shock:I was so mad at myself when I got home.:XHowever; I don't want to cause Ruby any more stress by marching her back and asking for a culture, so I thinkI'll justwait until she next goes in and ask for one. This is so frustrating - I wish vets were more explanatory!:X


Thanks for the advice about disguising the meds, I think I'll try and ask the vets if they can improve the taste somehow.onder:


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## ra7751 (Aug 18, 2007)

Hi,

Only have a brief moment....rescues are lining up. I did want to quickly respond and will send more later.

We have never had any GI problems when using Zithromax. We have been using it for years. It is very effective against most strains of pasteurella.

Like Haley, I am quesitoning the diagnosis and treatment. If it is a lower respiratory...something like pneumonia...more should be done to remove the fluid and fight the infection. We have used Lasix in those situations from time to time. I also question the Marbocyl. It does not appear to have been effective up to this point. And from what I have seen and read on that particular drug...it appears to be nothing much more than a repackaged version of Baytril. And I am not a fan of Baytril due to the resistance to it from many strains of bacteria.

And as far as disguising meds...disguise them in a syringe and inject them. That is the only way I use Baytril in small mammals now. Some drugs are safe only when injected and we have seen several that are much more effective when injected.

A culture is the only way to determine exactly what pathogen is present and precisely what to treat it with. But it is sometimes very difficult to get a good swab with a LRI. And I think maybe there has been some communication issue here. True, pasteurella cannot be eradicated....it is always present in nearly all warm blooded mammals...including humans. In most situations, the immune system should keep this dormant. Key here is to get the immune system back up and put the "genie back into the bottle". We do have buns with chronic pasteurella infections. We do not treat all the time but do respond when there is a flare up. Again, the key in controlling this issue is to keep the immune system going.

Randy


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## JadeIcing (Aug 18, 2007)

Ringo has pasteruella and I personaly believe the Zithromax has saved his life. Yes she needs stronger.

I agree with Randy a hundred percent. 

Ringo at one point was on meds EVERY day. Now just when it flares up.


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 19, 2007)

Thank you Randy and Alicia for your advice.

I have been doing a lot of research since I got back from the vets, and a lot of thinking. I have decided (with the help of Jane - Rex rabbit) to keep Ruby on the Marbocyl for 7-10 days. The marbocyl did improve Ruby's condition last time she was on it, so it should do the same this time, although after about a week I am going to take her back to the vets and see if her condition has improved.

If it has improvedI will keep her onthe marbocyluntil this flare-up is gone, however if it isn't I am going to discuss changing Ruby's medication with the vet. Potential drugs I am thinking about are Zithromax, tetracycline injections or Penicillin Injections, with Cholestyramine to mop up all the bad gut bacteria that rabbits produce when on those drugs.

Randy - would you recommend giving Zithromax via injection or syringe?

Thanks so much again guys, I really appreciate all this help.:hug2:


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## LuvaBun (Aug 21, 2007)

Oh Jess, I am so sorry that Ruby has had such a setback. How is she today? Hugs and good thoughts sent your way :hug:

Jan


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 21, 2007)

Thanks Jan.:hug: She is doing ok thanks, still sneezing but she is eating like a horse, playing and actingnormally, and is taking her meds ok. I think she actually getting used to taking them, she doesn't go ina grump with me after I put her back down.

I'm feeling a little more confident about this whole thing now I've got a plan, although I've got to say I'd be abit nervous if it came to injecting Ruby themeds as I'm needle-phobic.:shock:But I'll get over it for my girl.

Continued thoughts and prayers for Ruby please.ray:


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 21, 2007)

Double post!


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## JadeIcing (Aug 21, 2007)




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## HoneyPot (Aug 21, 2007)

We have all our fingers, toes and paws here crossed that Ruby feels better. There are no other rabbit-savvy vets in your area that you could maybe just do a second opinion with? Even if this vet is more thorough with running the tests and things...

Keep up with the updates! I'm always checking on your girls.

:hug:

Nadia
Misty
Charlie
& Oliver


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## ra7751 (Aug 21, 2007)

Hi

As far as administering the Zithromax...I have been doing it orally. I either mix the powder in a suspension agent...water, lactated ringers....and give it by mouth. With some of the buns, I mixthe powderinto a small piece of banana. They so rarely get banana that they gobble it down not knowing the meds are in there. An injectable version of Zithromax has just been approved if I remember correctly but I haven't used it. 

I see you mentioned tetracycline...I am not a big fan of that drug either...it's so "yesterday" and pretty much ineffective. In using the Zithromax or the Pen G, I have never had to use anything like Cholestyramine. If you do use that drug, proper hydration is a must. I prefer to use Flagyl which targets a specific bacteria....clostridium....that can grow in some GI situations. But again, I have never had any gut issues with Zith or Pen G (remember that penicillin is safe only as an injectable for those of you that have never used it).

Randy


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 22, 2007)

Thanks Nadia and Randy.

Nadia - I have been looking around for different vets but I'm not sure what any of them are like.:?I might wait until Ruby gets the next check in at my vets, see what they say, and if they aren't open to the idea of new meds I'll try a different vets.

Randy, thanks for that information! I'm trying to gather as much infoas possible so that when I talk it over with my vets I'm wellarmed - so to speak.

Ruby is doing well, and even did binkies this morning when I let her out which she hasn't done in a while!Also I haven't seen her sneezing white snot which is a good sign.


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## Bo B Bunny (Aug 22, 2007)

That poor baby! I hope all goes well and you find the culprit of her illness and get her all better.


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## LuvaBun (Aug 22, 2007)

Jess, I know Newcastle isn't exactly on your doorstep, but the new vet I use is excellent (she is the vet that writes in the Rabbit Welfare Magazine, Rabbiting On). If you want to travel all that way, I can give you her address 

Jan


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## naturestee (Aug 22, 2007)

Poor Ruby. I'm glad you're looking into this more, as I don't like what your vet said either.

FYI Randy, PenG is not available in the UK. I think veterinary drugs have to be approved, similar to the FDA approving drugs for human use in the US, and PenG is not approved. The penicillan injectibles that are available do sometimes cause gut problems in rabbits, hence the precaution.


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 23, 2007)

Thanks guys.

Jan - that is so sweet, thank you!:hug2: The only thing is I'm not sure if it might be too long a drive as the buns really don't like the car, they get nervous going tomy vets which is a 10 minute drive.:? However, I did take them to Darlington to a pet-sitter last summer, which was about a half hour journey and although they were nervous they got through it ok.

Could you please PM me the address and I'll see how far it is? Even if it is a fair distance, the positives (finding a good vet)might way outweigh the negatives (long car drive)in this instance.:?


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 25, 2007)

I've decided to go with Jan's vet, she looks fantastic and although I am worried about the trip, frankly I am more worried about Ruby at this point. She is losing weight and her breathing is faster than Millie's all the time.The only thing is these vets aren't open on weekends (and I doubt are open on a bank holiday either) but I'll try and take her up on Tuesday. 



Until then does anyone have any weight gaining tips? (never thought I'd be saying that about Ruby after she's spent half her life on a diet!:shock. She's not really skinny but I want to nip this in the bud now. She still has a healthy appetite and is acting normal in herself but I have a sneaking suspicion that Millie is eating most of Ruby's food as she is chubbing up and Ruby is sliming down.:?I am trying to supervise their meal times more carefully now so this morning I made sure Ruby had free rein at the pellet bowl for ages until she hopped away on her own.


Also I need some tips on how to make car travel less stressful, but I think I'll make a separate post about that asRuby and Millie_hate _the car!:shock:


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## giang_au (Aug 25, 2007)

ray:Come to pray for you and your rabbit.


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## cheryl (Aug 26, 2007)

*Bunnys_rule63 wrote: *


> Until then does anyone have any weight gaining tips?



Aww i'm sorry to hear about Ruby, Jess

I've been trying to fatten up my Pippi as well,i have been giving him rolled oates soaked in some water..he loves it,maybe you could try a bit of that,i also give him just rolled oates with no water as well

Get better soon sweetie girl :big kiss:

cheryl


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## Bo B Bunny (Aug 26, 2007)

The quickest way to put weight on a rabbit I think is for them to have some banana each day and some rolled oats (like the old fashioned cooking oatmeal) dry.... 

Bo seems to gain from those things..... even looking at them. :?


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 26, 2007)

Thanks guys, that's great! :hug2:


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## undergunfire (Aug 26, 2007)

I am sending good thoughts your way :hug:.


I have had to deal with URI's in rats, and it is a scary thing. A big huge "cough" noise and loud wheezing coming from a little rat is difficult to hear.

Fighting an RI in your baby must be very hard for you .


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 26, 2007)

Thanks Amy.Yeah it's hard, but I'm just looking forward to having a great vet for once who can actually help Ruby. She is acting fine in herself which is good, so until I can get to the vets I just need to keep her weight on, keep going with the meds at the moment and make sure she gets extra fuss and attention!

Speaking of which I made up some oats for Ruby - she loved them! Bad news is so does Millie.:disgust:She wasn't really happy when I told her they were only for Ruby though!I got a couple of pics but for some reason my 'copy and paste' thing isn't working at the moment!onder:Hmmmm, maybe later!


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## MsBinky (Aug 26, 2007)

I am sending big big hugs and good vibes your way. I really hope everything works out soon. You're both in my thoughts and prayers ink iris::hugsquish:


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 26, 2007)

Thanks MsBinky.:hug2:

Igave Ruby her meds tonight and just before I put her backin her run,I rubbed a little olbas oil on my hands and held it a few inches from her nose for a little bit. Italways clears my nose when I have a cold so it shouldwork for rabbits too, although I only used a little bit as it is so strong.I'm not sure if it helped but it can't have hurt. I got the idea from Pet_bunny's mint spray idea (credit where credit is due).

Poor Rubes, her breathing is very 'chesty', I can't wait till we can see this vet.


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 28, 2007)

Ruby has got an appointment with Judith tomorrow. She sounds so lovely, she even offered to ring up my current vets to get Ruby's medical records and things! Wish us luck!:clover:



Also, Ruby loves the oats! She'll soon be my chubby bun again the way she is stuffing them down!


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## cheryl (Aug 28, 2007)

That's great Jess,i hope everything goes wonderfully well 

Oh gosh i adore your incredibly gorgeous girls

Haha,i'm glad she loves the oates,i knew she would 

For Ruby :big kiss:

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Aug 29, 2007)

Hey Jess,i was just wondering how the vet visit went,i hope everything is ok with sweet little Ruby 

Cheryl


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## JadeIcing (Aug 29, 2007)

*cheryl13 wrote: *


> Hey Jess,i was just wondering how the vet visit went,i hope everything is ok with sweet little Ruby
> 
> Cheryl


:yeahthat:


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## LuvaBun (Aug 29, 2007)

Any news, Jess???

Jan


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## Bo B Bunny (Aug 29, 2007)

*cheryl13 wrote: *


> Haha,i'm glad she loves the oates,i knew she would



Me too! Bo and Clover can't wait to see if they get some oatsies if the cupboard door is opened there!

I just give them a pinch - dry. 

I know Ruby will be looking plump soon! they are awesome for that! Plus she thinks you are treating her special for some reason! LOL! 

Keep us posted and give her a snuggle for me! I can just about know how she feels - just bigger than I'm used to!


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 29, 2007)

Phew - just got back a few minutes ago. What a journey - but well worth it!

Unfortunately it's not good news.Judith was great, but said that she couldn't properly diagnose what Ruby had without a Culture or an X ray, however neither were an option because of Ruby's condition.

Judith took a calculated guess instead, and she thinks that Ruby may have heart failure, because when listening to her chest she found it very hard to hear her heart. However; she couldn't confirm this without an ultra sound scan,but the one in the surgery is too big for rabbits, so she said we will just have to wait and see. Ruby has been given a diuretic which will hopefully get rid of some of the the fluid in her lungs, and she has been given another antibiotic just in case - Septrin. 

There was a lot of other, more complicated medical chat, but I hope you guys don't mind if I don't post it up right now. I'm so tired and to be honest, emotionally drained. I don't know how to feel right now - I just want my girl to get better.:tears2:


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## JadeIcing (Aug 29, 2007)

Oh hon you post it when you are ready. We are all here for you.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Aug 29, 2007)

Oh Jess. I'm so sorry. You really need to get an xray though. That's how I found out my BunBun had heart failure. I'm here to discuss with you anything you may want to know. There's a thread on this in Rabbit Health References section of my ordeal. BunBun was on two meds, one, a diretic (sp) and one, called Enilapril, can't remember what it's classified as:?, but it is intended to open up the blood vessels.

Again, I'm sorry Jess. I hope you can learn more soon.:hug:

Give both those babies a hug from me.


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## maherwoman (Aug 29, 2007)

Oh no...I'm just seeing this...my love and hugs to you and Ruby and Millie...

:hearts :hug:


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## cheryl (Aug 29, 2007)

Oh no Jess,that's not the news i was hoping for,poor Ruby girl 

Cheryl


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## Michaela (Aug 29, 2007)

:hug2:I'm so sorry Jess , prayers for poor Ruby ray:.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Aug 30, 2007)

Jess, please post. How is Ruby? I know this is hard for you. I would like to help anyway I can. I've been through this.:hug:


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 30, 2007)

Thanks guys, it means a lot.:hug:

Crystal, thanks, I think I will read over Bunbun's threada little later.I agree with you that an x-ray would be best; however Judith explained that it would be a big risk considering Ruby's breathing (and maybe heart) difficulties. I just don't want to come this far and then lose her under anesthetic.:tears2:

Unfortunately Judith is off on holiday now, however she was telling me about the 'real' rabbit specialist down in Harrogate that I could take Ruby too, but he is an hour and a half away.:?For now I am just considering my options, the best thing would be for Ruby to have an ultra sound scan to see if there is fluid on her lungs, however this isn't possible at Judith's surgery. I was thinking I could go back to my old vets and see if they could do it, (they may not be happy about me chopping and changing but hey, I don't care, I just want Ruby better). I think I'll just have to wait and see, hopefully if the diuretic starts working we willknow we are on to something and can increase the dosage. 

As a side note, Judith was telling me of a women she knew, who suspects that rexes may be more prone to heart problems. And that woman turned out to be Jane (rexrabbit).What a small world!


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## ellissian (Aug 30, 2007)

Oh Jess Im so sorry......is their a Vets Now clinic near you, they all have ultrasound machines. :hugsquish:Take care and give Ruby a big hug from me.


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 30, 2007)

Thanks.:hug2:I think there may be a vets Nowclinic in Durham, I think my old vets uses them as an emergency vets.onder:Hmmm...I'll do a bit of research on that one..


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 30, 2007)

Ahh yes I've found it, although I can't quite figure out from the instructions how far it is (I'm so rubbish with directions!).:?

I think I'll checkif Abbey (my old vets) has an ultra sound machine first, as it is the closest. Fingers crossed they do, although I will probably have to take the picture of the scan back to Judith, seeing as the Abbey vets don't seem to havea clue when it comes to more complicated rabbit problems!:?


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## ellissian (Aug 30, 2007)

My local one is Middlesbrough, thats not too far from you.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Aug 30, 2007)

*Bunnys_rule63 wrote: *


> As a side note, Judith was telling me of a women she knew, who suspects that rexes may be more prone to heart problems.


Well, BunBun was kinda of a larger bun, about 8 pounds, wondering if it's larger buns, the vet said it could just be genetic:?.


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## LuvaBun (Aug 30, 2007)

Oh Jess, I really wasn't expecting this. Poor Ruby (and poor you)!

I wouldn't worry about your own vet not being happy that you went for another opinion - I think any vet worth their salt would welcome a more experienced point of view. It may even help them in future problems. 

I am hoping that the diuretic will have a good effect. Have you noticed any improvement in her today (I know, it's early days yet). I can imagine how frustrating all this waiting is. If there is anything I can do, just let me know, OK!

Hugs to you all

Jan


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## HoneyPot (Aug 30, 2007)

OH Jess!! I wasn't prepared to hear the news on Ruby. I'm so sad it wasn't better news. I can't imagine how tired and worried you are. You guys have all the human and bunny love we can project! I'll be following Ruby's progress closely, I love your two sweethearts, can't imagine anything bad happening to either of them.

:cry4:

:sickbunny:


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## aurora369 (Aug 30, 2007)

I'm so sorry to hear that Ruby is having such problems.

Wildfire died very suddenly from a bad heart, and I never even knew she was sick. At least you have the chance to help her get better. Wildfire was a mini-rex, so if heart problems are common in rex, maybe they are in mini-rex as well.

--Dawn


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 30, 2007)

*AngelnSnuffy wrote: *


> *Bunnys_rule63 wrote: *
> 
> 
> > As a side note, Judith was telling me of a women she knew, who suspects that rexes may be more prone to heart problems.
> ...



Hmm, maybe.onder: I know that giant buns are more prone to heart problems. I also noticed from your thread that Bunbun was 6 when he had his heart problems, so maybe it is a problem that affects older rabbits. After all people get weaker hearts as they get older, so the same should apply to rabbits.:?It also could be a genetic thing, as rabbits that have been bred for looks may have had their health compromised. (Also - I'm so sorry about Bunbun Crystal :hug



Jan - thanks. I haven't noticed any improvement yet, but hopefully I will do soon. Judith recommended not starting the Septrin for a few days so that if either of the drugs cause problems we can pinpoint which, and so if Ruby improves we can tell which drug has helped. (Also I noticed all the bunny posters pinned about in the waiting room, and all the 'Rabbiting On'magazines.The receptionist is so nice as well, she fussed over ever animal in there!)


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 30, 2007)

Sorry Dawn and Nadia, I didn't see your posts whenI replied! Thank you both.:hug:


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## NZminilops (Aug 30, 2007)

I looked at this thread yesterday, and didn't know what to say . Everything I thought of was so empty and meaningless, and I kept deleting and re-writing.

So, just to let you know, I'm so sorry this happened . Ruby doesn't deserve this at all, and she's such a beautiful and special rabbit. I'm going through all your pictures of Ruby and Millie and just willing her to please get better, or hang on for as long as she can.

I'm here for you and I'm thinking about you, this must be so hard for you and the buns. Please know you have me as a friend to talk to if you need it, even though I'm on the other side of the world . I care and I hate to think of how miserable you must be.

Michelle


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## MsBinky (Aug 30, 2007)

(((((((((((Ruby and Ruby's momma))))))))))

I am really hoping that everything works out alright for Ruby! I love rexes myself, they are just such beautiful babies. I am really sorry that the news wasn't better. I was hoping she'd be on the road to recovery soon. Hang in there and don't give up :rose:


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 30, 2007)

Thank you so much Michelle and MsBinky, I was in tears after reading your posts.:cry2You guys have no idea how much your help and support means to me, as you may be able to tell from my posts I am a bit of an emotional wreck right now! I am just so worried about Ruby, I can't bear the thought of losing her.

And thank you Crystal and Michelle for listening to me ramble on, on msn- I really appreciate it.:hug2:


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## MsBinky (Aug 30, 2007)

I know how it feels and it helps to talk to people who share a love for bunnies. You can't expect others to understand if they think that bunnies are just 'there'. So it's great to have a place for us all to share our experiences, good or bad. I'm sending big hugs to you :rose:


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## Bo B Bunny (Aug 30, 2007)

We're keeping you all in our thoughts and prayers here. I just fell in love with Ruby and Millie the second I saw them! They seem so much like Bo I guess.

I don't know if it's similar, but we had really good luck with a dog on diuretics many years ago. She lived a long time keeping the fluid from building up.

I sure hope you get some good news when you can get the tests done.


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## monklover (Aug 30, 2007)

Get well soon Ruby. You mean the world to your mom and everyone else. ink iris:


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 31, 2007)

Thank you guys, I don't know what else to say - just thank you.:group2:


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## cheryl (Aug 31, 2007)

Just letting you know that i'm still here thinking about Ruby

you are a fantastic bunny mum for taking such good care Ruby 

Cheryl


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 31, 2007)

Thanks Cheryl.:hug:


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 31, 2007)

I'm trying to make the most of Ruby, so I've been getting some videos of her this morning.

Firstly a pic of her eating her oats







And now the videos of her eating it off my hand











You can really see what her breathing is like in this one


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## AngelnSnuffy (Aug 31, 2007)

Those videos are precious of Rubes. She is quite the hungry girl! Loves those oats! I couldn't hear her breathing on my work computer, I'll have to listen to it at home. 

Have you gotten in contact with the specialist yet? Curious as to what he'll say about the losing weight that I told you about. Hang in there Jess:hug:.


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## Bo B Bunny (Aug 31, 2007)

Isn't it so great to feel their little whiskers and tongue when they eat the oats off of your hand? 

She's such a lovely girl. I hope she starts feeling better. Maybe the extra feed will help her regain the strength to heal whatever is wrong.


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 31, 2007)

Thanks Crystal, I don't think you can hear her breathing (it isn't loud) but you can see from her nose and sides that she is breathing much faster than normal.:?

No I haven't spoken to him yet, unfortunately I never got his number off Judith before she left. I'll doa bit of asking round though and see what I can do.


Thanks BBB - I sure hope so.It is lovely to have her lick if off my hand, neither of my girls are kissers so it's the closest I get!


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## Greta (Aug 31, 2007)

Aw, how precious she is. I hope she gets better soon


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## Bo B Bunny (Aug 31, 2007)

*Bunnys_rule63 wrote: *


> Thanks Crystal, I don't think you can hear her breathing (it isn't loud) but you can see from her nose and sides that she is breathing much faster than normal.:?
> 
> No I haven't spoken to him yet, unfortunately I never got his number off Judith before she left. I'll doa bit of asking round though and see what I can do.
> 
> ...



The only time I get kisses like that from Bo is when I feed him oats or scratch just the right spot on his behind. Then he licks my shoulder. 

Otherwise, the kisses are nose bumps. I'll take those tho! :biggrin2:


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 31, 2007)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> Otherwise, the kisses are nose bumps. I'll take those tho! :biggrin2:





LOL, that is exactly the same with my girls!:biggrin2: I wonder if it is a castor rex thing? onder:



Thank you Greta, I hope so too.Although she will probably never get better from this, I've realised that I can still give her a good quality of life once we get these meds cracked, and shower her in love for as long as possible. (thank you Michelle for helping me realise that.)

Mybeautiful Ruby Tuesday!:big kiss:


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## aurora369 (Aug 31, 2007)

Maybe Zeke is a freak then... That boy will kiss me till I have no skin left if I let him. He is obsessed with me and the only part of me he won't kiss are my feet (maybe they smell bad...).

Michelle has a good point about being able to provide her with a good quality of life once her meds are figured out. I would give anything to have been able to do that for Wildfire, to provide care and comfort for her when she must have been suffering.

It stinks that she's sick, but now that you know you can provide her with comfort and medication to make her feel better.

--Dawn


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 1, 2007)

Thank you Dawn.I'm so sorry you never had the chance to treat Wildfire, it's so sad what happened to your beautiful girl.Maybe rexes of both sizes are really more prone to heart failure, it's such a shame if they are, they are such wonderful rabbits.

I know, you are right about giving her a good quality of life, as long as I can keep her healthy and happy for as long as possible that is the important thing. Honestly, I haven't noticed a difference yet in Ruby - but it might take a while.:?However; I've decided to take each day as it comes - that's all I can do for now!


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## Phinnsmommy (Sep 2, 2007)

Im so sorry I hadnt seen this earlier.

Poor girl, but she's a fighter, she'll make it through this.

:hug:


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 2, 2007)

Thank you Silvie.:hug:

I started Ruby on the Septrin yesterday morning (as Judith said I should wait a few days before starting the antibiotics in case Ruby had any adverse reaction to the diuretics) and she loves it! It is banana flavoured and must taste lovely as Ruby tries to bite the syringe after it is finished wanting more.:biggrin2:

I have also slightly increased the amount of diuretic Ruby is having a day (by 1ml) now I knowshe is coping fine with it, as Judith explained rabbits can have much more of the Frusemide, she just wanted to start Ruby off slow - so hopefully I will start seeing some results!


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## ellissian (Sep 2, 2007)

Good luck and hugs to you and Ruby, I hope she feels better soon! :hugsquish:


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## cheryl (Sep 2, 2007)

*Bunnys_rule63 wrote: *


> Ruby tries to bite the syringe after it is finished wanting more.:biggrin2:



Haha,that's what my Pippi does when i've had to mix his meds with a bit of cordial,silly bunnies

Anyway,the videos are just precious,i absolutely adore Ruby,and Millie of course 

You are doing a good job with Ruby...she is so lucky to have you as her mum 

Cheryl


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## Bunnicula (Sep 2, 2007)

Oh, I just got to reading this thread. I am sorry to hear about Ruby, but am glad you found a vet who could help you more.

Did Judith comment about the possibility of pasteurella? Or is she thinking that the heart condition is the major problem.

We lost a bunny to pasteurella a few years ago, and unfortunately we did not have a rabbit-savvy vet until the day Stewart crossed the bridge. Our "cat vets" did all they knew to treat him, but it was not enough. So I know how wonderful it can feel to find a vet who has the experience with rabbits to diagnose and treat more complicated illnesses.

One symptom of Stewart's pasteurella was the growth of a "lump" on his neck under his chin. This is something that is common in cases of the disease, so I just wanted to make you aware of it...something to be on the lookout for.

I do think that if we had a bunny-experienced vet at the time we would have been able to give him a longer and more comfortable life. I am so happy that you have found that for Ruby.

Give her bunny snuggles from *all* of our household!

-Mary Ellen

and...

(rabbits: Gingivere, Emmaline, & Pipkin / cats:Rascal, Archie, Tucker, Nellie, Louise, Angel, Koko, Yum Yum, Halupki, & Nora...oh, and hubby: Gary)


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 3, 2007)

Thank you ellissian and Cheryl, that is so sweet.:hug2:

Thank you Mary Ellen, no Judith didn't mention pasturella, although she agrees it is the lower part of Ruby's respiratory system which is being affected she strongly suspects heart failure, or tumors - but she said they were the least likely option, and if it was tumours there is nothing that could really be done.

Thanks for the heads up on the lump though, I will definitely keep an eye out for that. I'm so sorry about what happened Stewart, I just wish there were more rabbit savvy vets out there, then maybe we all wouldn't lose ourprecious bunnies too soon.


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## LuvaBun (Sep 3, 2007)

Aww, look at my lovely girls! 

Ruby liking her meds is a great advantage - no stress for her, or you . I really hope the increased dosage starts to show some results. How is Millie doing through all this?

Keeping you all in my thoughts, Jess. Anything you need, just ask!

Jan


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 3, 2007)

Thank you Jan, and don't worry, I'llknow where you areif I need anything.:hug:

Millie is doing pretty well, although she is a bit grumpy because Ruby is getting so much extra attention!:biggrin2:She is such a fantastic little nurse though, she really cares for Ruby.

:love: :bunnyhug::bunnieskiss


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## Bunnicula (Sep 3, 2007)

*Bunnys_rule63 wrote: *


> Thank you Mary Ellen, no Judith didn't mention pasturella, although she agrees it is the lower part of Ruby's respiratory system which is being affected she strongly suspects heart failure, or tumors - but she said they were the least likely option, and if it was tumours there is nothing that could really be done.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up on the lump though, I will definitely keep an eye out for that.



The lump that Stewart had from the pasteurella was surgically removed. However, the growth is a cottage cheesy-like consistency and usually recurs. I took the chance, though (even with my non rabbit-savvy vet), and Stewart came through with flying colors. He did have a drain in his neck and then a big hole which I had to flush out a few times a day. It wasn't easy, especially when he got to feeling better and fought me...and then as the hole began to heal and grow more difficult to flush...but we made it. What my non-savvy vet did not do well with was knowing what medications to use. And I was too inexperienced with bunnies at that point to have suggestions or to have the boldness to seek out a more knowledgeable vet. 

All that to say...even though whatever Ruby has may be life-threatening, I know that you will find the energy and resolve to fight it and give her the best outcome possible.

Goodness, I DO love that picture of her and Millie hiding out together. They are such gorgeous girls! You and your lovely bunnies are in my thoughts...

-Mary Ellen


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 3, 2007)

Thanks Mary Ellen. :hug:

*Bunnicula wrote: *


> Goodness, I DO love that picture of her and Millie hiding out together. They are such gorgeous girls! You and your lovely bunnies are in my thoughts...
> 
> -Mary Ellen



They are _so _loved up at the moment, it is really touching.....


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## cheryl (Sep 3, 2007)

Oh my goodness,this picture is so precious!

When i seen it all i could say was Aww...






cheryl


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## Bo B Bunny (Sep 3, 2007)

*Bunnys_rule63 wrote: *


> Thank you Silvie.:hug:
> 
> I started Ruby on the Septrin yesterday morning (as Judith said I should wait a few days before starting the antibiotics in case Ruby had any adverse reaction to the diuretics) and she loves it! It is banana flavoured and must taste lovely as Ruby tries to bite the syringe after it is finished wanting more.:biggrin2:
> 
> I have also slightly increased the amount of diuretic Ruby is having a day (by 1ml) now I knowshe is coping fine with it, as Judith explained rabbits can have much more of the Frusemide, she just wanted to start Ruby off slow - so hopefully I will start seeing some results!



Ooooo NANNO medicine must be the best!

When Clover was a baby - that's how I got her to eat her slurry - I put a tiny bit of baby food bananas in it and she just sucked that stuff down! Then when I wet down her pellets for her to eat on her own - I had to put a bit in until I weaned it out. She was really fond of it.

I'm glad Ruby is doing well. I just wish I could cuddle and kiss her myself!


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 5, 2007)

Thank you guys.

Unfortunately Ruby wasn't too good this morning, I hated leaving her to go to school.

She just really wasn't herself, wasn't eating much,and there were a lot of Cecotropes in the litter box. I had to make a quick decision so I decided to skip her antibiotics this morning (as Judith said to stop if they cause Diarrhea, and although this wasn't diarrhea I wanted to be careful) however I decided to give her the diuretics as I felt it might be too risky for her not to have them.:?

Thankfully when I got in she has all normal poops, all their food has been eatenand she is acting more like herself.But she really scared me there!:cry2


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## Bo B Bunny (Sep 5, 2007)

Awww I was thinking about her this morning and wondering how she was doing. 

I wouldn't have given the antibiotics either... I'm glad she ate all of her food! THat's always a good thing with bunnies!


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## LuvaBun (Sep 5, 2007)

I bet you had a stressful day at school, worrying about Ruby.

I'm pleased she is back to eating and pooping normally - it's so frustrating when their meds cause something else. I just wish that there was an easy answer to all of this :?:hug:

Jan


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 5, 2007)

Thank you both of you.:hug:

I wish there was an easy answer too, I just worry about Ruby all the time - she isn't the same bunny anymore.I just wish she were better...


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## NZminilops (Sep 5, 2007)

Just letting you know I am thinking about you and Ruby.

:hug:


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 5, 2007)

Thank you Michelle.:hug:

I've just given Ruby and Millie their dinner and Ruby had a horrible sneezing fit, she sounded just like she was chocking and even had her mouth open. It was horrible.:tears2: I stayed out with her for ages until she started acting normally again, but I was so scared.

I just don't know what to do anymore, and Judith isn't back till next week. I may just book Ruby in for as soon as possible with my old vets, they are better then nothing. I am*so* worried about her, please keep Ruby in your thoughts and prayers.


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 6, 2007)

Ruby is very bad, she was mouth breathing this morning and sounded so fluidy. I was so panicked, thank God my sister was off work today so took her to the vets while I was at school.

It's bad news - Ruby is getting worse and worse, her breathing is deteriorating and she is losing a lot of weight. The vet said we only really have 2 options - x ray her and try and find the problem, or put her to sleep. I know the risk of anesthetic, especially considering Ruby's condition, but what choice do I have? I will have to opt for the x ray and pray with all my heart Ruby makes it through.:tears2:

I can't even describe what I am feeling right now, my heart has broken into a million pieces. It kills me to see her suffering like this, I don't know what to do anymore. I don't want to lose her....

:bigtears:


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## AngelnSnuffy (Sep 6, 2007)

Oh Jess, I am so terribly sorry to hear this:bigtears:. I was hoping she'd be ok for sometime. Poor Ruby. You both will be in my thoughts and prayersray:. 

Feel free to pm me.


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 6, 2007)

Thank you Crystal.:hug:

I've just been on the phone to the vet, she explained that if it were Ruby's heart she would expect the diuretic to have worked by now, and because she is still eating yet has lost so much weight so said it could be tumours, which was also what Judith said.:?

The vet also said that Ruby is suffering with her breathing, and I have to consider her quality of life. I'm just so confused, I want to give the x-ray a go, but I'm starting to wonder is it worth it? I have been fighting for Ruby for weeks and she's just got worse, I don't want her suffering to go on. She deserves more than that. But then again I don't want her to die.

I don't know what to do! :sad:


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## AngelnSnuffy (Sep 6, 2007)

I guess I don't know what you should do either. I don't get why her breathing is so bad, and yet they don't think it's her heart:?. I don't understand why tumours would make her breathing so labored, unless they were on her lungs. I don't think I'd risk the x-ray:?, but then again, what would be the difference if you decided to put her down? At least if you did the x-ray, you'd possibly have an answer:?. This is so hard...

Keep me posted Jess:hug:.


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## Bo B Bunny (Sep 6, 2007)

*Bunnys_rule63 wrote: *


> Thank you Crystal.:hug:
> 
> I've just been on the phone to the vet, she explained that if it were Ruby's heart she would expect the diuretic to have worked by now, and because she is still eating yet has lost so much weight so said it could be tumours, which was also what Judith said.:?
> 
> ...



Do they HAVE to do the xrays with her under anesthetic? Could you hold her down? it's not like you don't get xrays yourself ya know? 

If you can do the xrays without causing her more stress and pain, then I would say to do them. Someone told me not to even think twice when I had to make a decision about our cat last winter. I spent a ton of money and time and she did go through some pain but she knew we loved her and she purred the whole time. In the end she didn't make it but we did all we could and what got her wasn't her injury but the stroke she had when she got better and started getting active again and playing really well.

If you don't do it, you'll never forgive yourself.


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## LuvaBun (Sep 6, 2007)

Oh God,Jess, this is just awful! I can fully understand the dilema you have about the x-rays.

I think if it were me, I would probably have them done. As Crystal said, it may give you an answer and another option, rather than putting her to sleep straight away. Either way, you will probably always think "What if ...."

I wish there was an easy, black and white answer, but only you can decide. You are such a wonderful bunny mom to both your girls, whatever you decide will be the right decision.

I am praying for you and Ruby (my heart is breaking too )

Jan


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 6, 2007)

Thank you guys.

This is so hard, as much as I want Ruby to have the x ray I have to think about her future, there may be nothing they can do and I don't want her to keep onsuffering. Also as my mum pointed out it is quite expensive, but my gut feeling is I have to try. I have to give Ruby a chance.

I think I will opt for the x ray, Millie and I can say goodbye to her before and then if she makes it through the anesthetic and there is nothing they can do, I will ask for her to be put straight to sleep before she wakes up - so she doesn't suffer or get stressed and can just slip away peacefully. But if there is something they can do then Ruby will stand a chance at getting better.

Honestly though guys I think this is Ruby's last day - I can't believe it.:bigtears:


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## AngelnSnuffy (Sep 6, 2007)

*Bunnys_rule63 wrote: *


> Honestly though guys I think this is Ruby's last day - I can't believe it.:bigtears:


:sad::cry2 Jess, My thoughts are with you and Ruby...


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## TinysMom (Sep 6, 2007)

Oh no. I am just now reading this. Your heart has got to be breaking over this.

I think that paying the extra to do the x-rays is worth it and that it is the right choice. This way - you will not have any doubts that you did all you could for her....and although you could lose her due to the drugs...it would not be a painful death for her.

I have lost rabbits that had fluid in their lungs and the death was painful. Passing away from being under the drugs...or being painlessly put to sleep is a much better option. 

I never give up hope until they are no longer breathing. I have some rabbits here that lost weight and I thought for sure I'd lose them...then suddenly - they'd turn around and start putting it on. It wasn't due to the same things that your Ruby is suffering from - but my point is - you never know. Fight for her life as long as you can - she will let you know when she is ready to go and I think you'll be ready to let her go at that point.

I will be praying for you and for Ruby and watching this thread to see what happens. But I think you are making the right choice. Even if you lose her - and I pray you won't - you will have done all you could.

Peg*

Bunnys_rule63 wrote: *


> Honestly though guys I think this is Ruby's last day - I can't believe it.:bigtears:


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## JimD (Sep 6, 2007)

Hi Jess,

I'm so sorry that I haven't been keeping up on this 

Sending prayers and good thoughts.

~Jim


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## Greta (Sep 6, 2007)

Jess, I'm just now catching up on this. I'm so sorry to hear Ruby's not well. You, she and Millie will be in my thoughts and prayers. :hug2: ray::clover:


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## MsBinky (Sep 6, 2007)

:sad:

I'll be pacing worrriedly with you. I'm so sorry about the turn of events. You're in my thought and prayers. 

ray:

We love you Ruby :hug2:


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## Ivory (Sep 6, 2007)

*Bo B Bunny wrote*


> Do they HAVE to do the xrays with her under anesthetic? Could you hold her down?


No. Rabbits have to be put under because of the positions the body needs to be in when taking X-rays. Sometimes they have to be stretched out, or put at weird angles. I wouldn't want to hold a conscious rabbit down in some of the positions they're put in.

Holding a rabbit down would seriously compromise the X-ray. Just because it's in a vet's office doesn't mean that it won't X-ray a human, too. If there's an arm bone sticking in the way of what needs to be seen, there isn't much point in having an X-ray done.


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## Haley (Sep 6, 2007)

*Ivory wrote: *


> *Bo B Bunny wrote*
> 
> 
> > Do they HAVE to do the xrays with her under anesthetic? Could you hold her down?
> ...



Thats not always true. My vet, who is very experienced with rabbits, did xrays on Max 2 or 3 times without putting him under anesthesia. Yes, we may have had a better view had Max been put under, but he got lots of great (and very clear) xrays just with Max sitting there. From those xrays, we were able to view his lungs and determined he had bronchitis (you could see the inflamed bronchials). 

I say its worth it to go ahead with xrays. Also, what kind of meds is she on now? Im sorry I havent been keeping up. Did you guys ever try a nebulizer? That helped Max a lot- if you can remember he was open mouth breathing quite a bit and was chocking when he ate. 

I'll be praying for Ruby (and for strength for you, Jess). I wish there was more I could do to help.


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## TinysMom (Sep 6, 2007)

When I had a doe that needed xrays to see if she was pregnant (we thought she was overdue)...they didn't put her under and they got some good shots..


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## Michaela (Sep 6, 2007)

Have PMd you Jess. :big kiss:


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## SOOOSKA (Sep 6, 2007)

Oh Goodness I will say many prayers for your Little Beauty. I really hope everything goesok.

Susan:sickbunny:


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## ellissian (Sep 6, 2007)

Jess...I'm so sorry, I really don't know what to say except I'm thinking youand Ruby :hug1


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## NZminilops (Sep 6, 2007)

Sending my love and hope out to you and Ruby Jess

This is so heartbreaking :sad:

I've got everything on me crossed that they can get the x-rays done and find out what is wrong and make your beautiful girl feel better.

:hug1


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## Bo B Bunny (Sep 6, 2007)

Oh no! I hope this isn't it. I have a good feeling she could be helped..... 

We're praying extra hard!


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## Ivory (Sep 6, 2007)

For simple things like pregnancy, it might not be needed but for other things rabbits have to be put into the absolute oddest positions.

I guess I'm thinking more like teeth/head, where they essentially have to turn the head around at a delicate angle and lie 'em flat and all sorts of other really weird positions. I really wouldn't want to restrain that. And depending on what needs to be X-rayed from what angle.

Not to mention you risk them hopping around and eating the X-ray film...

May I just also add my sentiments to the situation...it's always hard....I'm so sorry about Ruby. I hope that she makes it through, or if there's nothing that can be done, then I am very sorry and wish you the best of luck with Millie.


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 6, 2007)

I just want to thank you guys, you have no idea how much your words mean to me.

I need to go to bed -I am so tired after today, but honestly I don't even know how I am going to get to sleep tonight. I am not looking forward to tomorrow one bit...:tears2:


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## JadeIcing (Sep 6, 2007)

Oh god. I am praying so hard for you.


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## maherwoman (Sep 6, 2007)

Oh...I'm praying for you...I hope she gets better.....

ray:


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## cheryl (Sep 6, 2007)

Oh Jess,this is just devestating 

:bigtears:

We are all here praying for little Ruby :hug:


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## LuvaBun (Sep 6, 2007)

:sad:Oh, I am so praying that Ruby can make it through this. My heart is breaking here for you all. Keeping you in my thoughts.



Jan xx


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## Pet_Bunny (Sep 6, 2007)

Praying for Ruby. ray:

Be strongJess. :hug:


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 7, 2007)

She's gone :bigtears:



My beautiful girl, she was so strong, she was a fighter till the very end. Even with her breathing she survived the anesthetic, but she had one big tumour in one of her lungs and fluid in the other. There was nothing the vets could do so she was pts earlier this afternoon.

I'll write a tribute in the rainbow bridge section later - but I'm not up to it right now.:sad:


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## AngelnSnuffy (Sep 7, 2007)

Oh Jess, honey, I am so so sorry...:bigtears:

Sweet Ruby...Binky free...We love you...:rainbow:ink iris:


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## LuvaBun (Sep 7, 2007)

Oh no, no, no NO!
Jess, I can't write anything at the moment. This is so devastating. I will write later - i am so very, very sorry :bigtears:

Jan


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## Michaela (Sep 7, 2007)

:bigtears:I'll write more later...

Binky free Ruby :big kiss:


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## Bo B Bunny (Sep 7, 2007)

*Bunnys_rule63 wrote: *


> She's gone :bigtears:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OH NO! :bigtears: I am so sorry! 

I know you needed to make that hard decision for her, but it had become more pain than pleasure for her if she was struggling so hard. That is when it's time.

You did all you could for her and loved her more than so many are loved in their tiny little lives. She came to you for a reason and what that was you may never know but she fullfilled her purpose and now is binkying free and not in pain.

Give Millie a kiss and a hug for me..... she knew Ruby was sick - she took such good care of her. I wish I was there to help you through.....


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## SOOOSKA (Sep 7, 2007)

OMG, I am so sorry. I am in tears reading this. This just isn't fair. She was so loved and she knew it.

Binky Free Little One.:rainbow:

Susan:angelandbunny:


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## JimD (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm so sorry, Jess 

....binky free little one.

ray::rainbow:


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## Snuggys Mom (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm so sorry about Ruby, Jess. This is so heart-breaking. 

:bigtears:


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## kellyjade (Sep 7, 2007)

I am so sorry.:tears2:
It seems so unreal, I guess I thought Ruby & Millie would be around forever.:sad:
Binky free, beautiful girl.ink iris:


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 7, 2007)

*kellyjade wrote: *


> It seems so unreal, I guess I thought Ruby & Millie would be around forever.:sad:




Me too, Millie on her own just isn't right. They have always been together.:tears2:



Thank you *so *much everyone, I had just composed myself but after reading this thread I am in floods of tears again. I just can't believe it.

And I have no idea what to do with Millie - she is distant already. How can she possibly understand this?And I have to have Ruby's body brought home and bury it....god this is so hard! :sad:


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## AngelnSnuffy (Sep 7, 2007)

Oh Jess, I know, it's one of the hardest things to deal with. Poor Millie. Do you plan to let Millie say goodbye? It might help her to understand and grieve. After that, maybe give her a special stuffed buddy, this might help her a little too...

We're here for you:hug:


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## tundrakatiebean (Sep 7, 2007)

aw honey, I am so sorry. 

Binky free sweet girl.


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## MsBinky (Sep 7, 2007)

[align=center]:bigtears:[/align]
[align=center]She was one of my favs. I'm so so so so sorry to hear. Man.. :cry1:I was really hoping she'd be okay. *Goes off to cry too*[/align]
[align=center]:cry4:[/align]


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## LuvaBun (Sep 7, 2007)

I have cried most of the afternoon, so I can only imagine how you are feeling, Jess.

I think it would be good for Millie to say 'Goodbye'. She is going to miss Ruby so much, I think she needs to grieve for her. I know when Perry passed, the hardest thing was seeing Pernod on her own. You just get used to them being together. Let her lay with things that still have Ruby's scent on them, for the time being at least. And give her all the love and cuddles she can take - it will help both of you!

We are all here for you - Ruby was special to all of us.

Rest in Peace, Ruby. And look after your mom and sister.

Jan


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## Bo B Bunny (Sep 7, 2007)

You know, we let the horses see each other when things happen like this. We had to bury 2 in the past year and we had to let their "friends" see them and know what was going on. I think it helps. 

If you can do it or let someone else help you show Millie - she might "get it".

Is she outside alone now?


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 8, 2007)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> Is she outside alone now?




Yes.:cry4:I don't know what to do with her, I haven't even got that far yet. I'm just trying to take things as they come. However; I know once she has come to terms with this I will have to do something with her. Winter is coming and I can't leave her out there on her own. But honestly I can't see her being happy inside, or with another bun. I just wish Ruby was back.

I'm sending my dad to collect Ruby's body (and the x-rays because I want to see them) so I think I'll try and convince him to show Millie Ruby's body, because I can't do it.:cry2I'm also going to give Millie Ruby's towel that she was always bundled in for meds and always went to the vets with as it will have her scent on.


Also here is Ruby's tribute in the rainbow bridge section:

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=27708&forum_id=27


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## Bo B Bunny (Sep 8, 2007)

I think that's a good plan at the moment. Maybe she _would_ like another bunny? I know that's hard to think about but my goodness there are so many rescues out there and she might just do fine with one. 

I miss Ruby also. I know that sounds goofy but it's very sad for me when I hear that one of the bunnies I "know" has passed away. I know how much joy they are and I know how good of a parent that all of the people here are - we all post on a board about them! That's love!

Keep in your heart and mind that Ruby had a better life than a lot of people have. You gave her a home with her sissy and fun toys and good food. She was happy and tried to hang on for you and for Millie. Take comfort in the fact that she didn't suffer any more than she did. You took care of her and made sure to do all you could.

*long-distance-hug*


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 8, 2007)

Thank you BBB, it just hurts so much - I'm nowhere near even thinking about getting another bunny.:tears2:Millie seems a bit better today since she said goodbye to Ruby, she is acting more herself, but it is so sad to see her alone in her run. It just isn't right.

For now I am just going to make sure Millie has as much human contact as possible, I don't know what I am going to do but for now we will just cope. My parents -who have never let Ruby and Millie live inside - feel so sorry for Millie on her ownthat she may be able to move in, so we'll see. I'll just have to take each day as it comes for now, the future will sort itself out.


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## Ivory (Sep 8, 2007)

I've never met Rudy or Millie but I still feel so sad reading this. It's so hard when they go...

It's been almost a year since my Holly died and sometimes I still miss him so much.

I'm sorry about Ruby, you did everything you possibly could do. It's just so hard...and it's so hard when there's nothing the vet can do.


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## Bo B Bunny (Sep 8, 2007)

*Bunnys_rule63 wrote: *


> Thank you BBB, it just hurts so much - I'm nowhere near even thinking about getting another bunny.:tears2:Millie seems a bit better today since she said goodbye to Ruby, she is acting more herself, but it is so sad to see her alone in her run. It just isn't right.
> 
> For now I am just going to make sure Millie has as much human contact as possible, I don't know what I am going to do but for now we will just cope. My parents -who have never let Ruby and Millie live inside - feel so sorry for Millie on her ownthat she may be able to move in, so we'll see. I'll just have to take each day as it comes for now, the future will sort itself out.



So your father let her say goodbye? It really seems to make a difference! We had a pair of bonded mares and I mean they were BONDED and the old onehad a stroke. The other one really had a fit in the barn when they took her out. She wasn't gone - they had to put her down. So after they did, they took the other horse to see her before they buried her. That horse sniffed her and looked at everyone and then lowered her head as if to mourn her friend. She was ok after that. She wasn't happy, but she wasn't throwing a fit - she knew where her friend had gone.

you are doing the right thing for Millie. She needs some extrainteraction right now.


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 9, 2007)

Thank you Ivory - I know what you mean.

BBB - Yes, my mum showed Ruby's body to Millie. I'm keeping things updated on different threads, but I think I said so in Ruby's tribute thread. Millie does seem a lot brighter today though, I went digging through my old soft toys last night and found a couple I thought she might like to snuggle with, plus she has her old bear that both Ruby and Millie loved so much.

Honestly, she seems to be handling this whole thing a lot better than me right now.:cry4:My whole family went out for my sister's birthday last night, and I was taking some pictures and when I went back to look through them I saw some pictures I had taken of Ruby and I just burst into tears. I miss her *so *much.:sad:


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## tundrakatiebean (Sep 9, 2007)

:hug:it's ok to be sad, you don't have to forget or feel better right away.


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## cheryl (Sep 9, 2007)

Ohh Jess...,i haven't been able to stop thinking about you:hug:


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 9, 2007)

Thank you Katie and Cheryl.:hug:


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## Bunnicula (Sep 9, 2007)

Jess,

I haven't been on-line for days...and just got back to checking your thread. I had even put the pic of Millie & Ruby as my desktop background so I would remember to keep her in my thoughts and prayers.

My heart is heavy now, and I share your tears. I believe you did the right thing having the xray done. That way you knew that you had done all you could. I am so very, very sorry that things did not turn out differently.

I think it was a good idea, too, to allow Millie to view the body. We did the same thing when Stewart passed away in the vet's office waiting room. (I was holding him as he gasped his last, labored breath...and only wish he had passed under anesthesia...I am so glad your Ruby never got to that point.) I brought the body home for Gingivere to view. She groomed and nudged him, just willing her best friend to move. She grieved forweeks. But I must say that a positive result is that she has become an absolute people bunny. Without her special friend, she now looks to us for companionship. So wait and give Ruby time. She may choose to bond more closesly to you...or she may make it clear that she would one day like to spend her life with another bunny. You'll know what to do when the time is right.

ray:

-Mary Ellen


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 9, 2007)

Thank you Mary Ellen.:hug2:I agree with you, it's best to wait until Millie lets me know what she needs. Right now there is no point on forcing human love on her, nor is there any point in getting her a bunny friend (and frankly neither of us are anywhere near ready for that). She will let me know in her own time what is best for her, but for now we both need to come to terms with this before we make any big decisions.

This just allseems so rushed, Ruby only died on Friday, I don't even want to think about the future right now.:tears2:


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## AngelnSnuffy (Sep 9, 2007)

Jess, I hope you're doing okay. I still have your babies (the pic of the kiss) on my desktop. I just adore that picture:hug:. Give Millie and kiss and noserub from me.


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 9, 2007)

Thank you Crystal. I love that picture, that is the one I saw on my camera last night that set me off in tears.:tears2:It's so sweet yet so sad at the same time because you can see how skinny Ruby was - it's heartbreaking.

I've given Millie a kiss from you.She was being really affectionate tonight - bless her heart. Also my mum has agreed to let Millie come inside on anafternoon after schoolso she can have more human company. It's not fully moved indoors - but its a start!


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## Bo B Bunny (Sep 9, 2007)

*Bunnys_rule63 wrote: *


> Thank you Crystal. I love that picture, that is the one I saw on my camera last night that set me off in tears.:tears2:It's so sweet yet so sad at the same time because you can see how skinny Ruby was - it's heartbreaking.
> 
> I've given Millie a kiss from you.She was being really affectionate tonight - bless her heart. Also my mum has agreed to let Millie come inside on anafternoon after schoolso she can have more human company. It's not fully moved indoors - but its a start!



Letting her visit inside is good for her just remember the temperature changes. If it's too drastic, don't bring her in.

On the good side - if she's inside it might help her get over the loss of Ruby. She will be exploring new things - which bunnies love! 

It is hard to think of the future right now, but sometimes it's what helps us get through the tough stuff.


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 9, 2007)

I know BBB, I'm hoping it will help her to be around us a bit more. Also don't worry about the temperature - its still warm here so I don't have to worry about the temperature change for a few weeks yet. Which is good as it gives me a few weeks to decide what to do with her.:?


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## Michaela (Sep 9, 2007)

The temperature thing isn't a big deal really, it's mild here. Pebble and Ebony come in a few evenings a week, and they are fine. I usually just keep them in the kitchen which is a bit cooler and I've never had a problem.


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## Bo B Bunny (Sep 9, 2007)

well here, it's been in the 93Â° F area and then in the house it's about 70Â° so I would have to be real careful. We will be moving Heidi outside when the weather changes in the spring. I have to build a big hutch this winter.


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