# LMRR DOH inspection #1 results



## hereinjersey (Sep 6, 2012)

Little Miracles Rabbit Rescue
[align=center]2308 Auburn Ave[/align] [align=center]Atco, NJ 08004[/align] [align=center](Township of Waterford, Camden County)[/align][align=center]
[/align] Little Miracles Rabbit Rescue
[align=center]2308 Auburn Ave[/b][/b][/align] [align=center]Atco[/b], [/b]NJ[/b] [/b]08004[/b][/b][/align] [align=center]([/b]Township[/b] of [/b]Waterford[/b], [/b]Camden[/b] [/b]County[/b])[/b][/align]


----------



## Pipp (Sep 6, 2012)

Lorraine, I don't know or care what you're trying to say this time, but take your vendetta elsewhere. 

You report things like 'the vet quit' this rescue and 'reported them to the health board', when in reality the rescue started working with another vet and the first vet notified the health board AS REQUIRED that she was no longer the vet on record. 

The rescue deciding to keep a rescued Flemish rather than adopting it out generates accusations of hoarding. You ignore the fact the rescue adopts out a dozen or more rabbits per month -- they have one of the best adoption records in rescue. 

Its this type of manipulation of facts that you and the others in your 'gang' of harassers are putting across to besmirch the reputation of a great rescue simply because you personally don't like the founder. 

You cross the line when you orchestrate mass complaints to authorities (anonymously of course) about non-existent or ridiculously minor violations which in turn end up costing the rescue, their volunteers and their donors thousands of dollars in unneccessary upgrades. 

You're sucking time and energy out of all rescues. I can say a lot of us don't want to even do rescue when we see stuff like this. 

Go away. 


sas 

*New Sauder Research: Workplace bullying witnesses consider quitting more than the victims
* 
July 17, 2012 

New research from the Sauder School of Business at UBC reveals that workers who witness bullying can have a stronger urge to quit than those who experience it firsthand. The findings of the study indicate bullyingâs corrosive effects in the workplace may be more dramatic and costly than suspected.

âWe tend to assume that people experiencing bullying bear the full brunt. However, our findings show that people across an organization experience a moral indignation when others are bullied that can make them want to leave in protest,â says Sauder Prof.Sandra Robinson, co-author of thestudypublished in the current edition of the journal Human Relations.

Data used for the study were collected through two surveys of a sample of 357 nurses in 41 units of a large Canadian health authority. Prior research shows that bullying is prevalent in the health care industry, especially among nurses.

The surveys used a series of questions to assess the level of bullying in each nursing unit, as well as the individual experience of bullying of each respondent. The researchers then captured respondentsâ intentions to quit their jobs in units where bullying was pervasive, asking them to rate their positive or negative reactions toward statements like, âIf I had a chance, I would change to some other organization.â

Findings show that all respondents who experience bullying, either directly or indirectly, reported a greater desire to quit their jobs than those who did not. However, the results also indicate that people who experienced it as bystanders in their units or with less frequency reported wanting to quit in even greater numbers.

Prior research shows that intentions to quit are directly correlated with employees leaving their jobs. However, Prof. Robinson warns that even if employees stay in their roles, an organizationâs productivity can suffer severely if staff members have an unrealized desire to leave.

âManagers need to be aware that the behaviour is pervasive and it can have a mushrooming effect that goes well beyond the victims,â says Prof. Robinson. âUltimately bullies can hurt the bottom line and need to be dealt with quickly and publicly so that justice is restored to the workplace.â


-30-


----------



## hereinjersey (Sep 6, 2012)

Glad you want to keep the public informed. Glad you care about the animals who the owner is treating as her own vet. Glad to see you are concerned that they do not have the food and water they need.


----------



## Pipp (Sep 6, 2012)

The majority of rabbits have mites, they are only a problem with stress and other health issues allow them to propagate. Rabbits coming into a rescue are stressed! 

With 100+ rabbits with daily intakes (in one of the worst flea seasons I may add, if you're talking about this year), you're going to have a few fleas.

When you have an mean-spirited and well organized group of bullies putting any rescue under a microscope almost every hour of every day for years, you're going to find some fleas. 

But they are no where near as big of a threat to the rabbits as your group of parasites feeding on the blood and energy of the those who are truly rescuing them. 

Don't let the (virtual) door hit your butt on the way out. 


sas (forum owner)


----------



## Pipp (Sep 6, 2012)

More manipulation... no food and water. Accusations like this stem from disgruntled ex-volunteers showing up to clean pens (while the rescue head was in the hospital) and taking pictures. OF COURSE the pens are dirty and there is no food or water, that's what the volunteers are supposed to do. 

It's unfortunately very easy for people like your group to set up a rescue to fail because of personal grudges. And it happens often. 

In this case, all the charges are totally bogus (or they are exaggerated and date back 10 years to boot), but even where there are problems I'll always question those who are accusing rescues of neglect why they don't simply step in and help? Don't take pictures, clean the litter boxes, buy some food! 

Rescue SHOULD be a community effort. Someone with the drive to get one underway should be applauded and assisted, not constantly policed and criticized, which unfortunately is the more common approach in rabbit rescue. 

Read the article I posted. You're demoralizing the entire community. 


sas


----------



## MiniLopHop (Sep 6, 2012)

:yeahthat: Pipp, I totally agree! When LMRR was first recommended to me I had second thoughts from the smear campaign. I kept an open mind and talked to the members directly rather than believing what I was told second hand. I am very glad I did because I have found them to be an excellent, extremely caring group of people. They take in and place so many rabbits that would have no hope otherwise. They do amazing work.

It really is a horrible shame the hoops they are jumping through with the health department now because of hard hearted people. The health department is forcing regulations that were written and logical for DOGS on a rabbit rescue! Repeat after me: Dogs are not Rabbits. Rabbits are not Dogs! This entire time the care and well being of the rabbits has been the highest priority.

Shame on anyone who goes after someone working their butt off saving lives. It is hard enough educating the public without needing to fight against people who should be on the same side. Bullying doesn't go away after school ends because some refuse to grow up. :disgust:


----------



## Pipp (Sep 6, 2012)

PS: For people wanting to see the real story of this great but beleaguered rescue, here's their Facebook page. 

http://www.facebook.com/LittleMiraclesRabbitRescue

They are unfortunately in need of probably four times the resources they'd otherwise require thanks to the constant harassment that sucks so much time and adds so much work to their efforts.  Those funds and resources could have gone to true rescue efforts. 

As an example of how mean-spirited these harassers are, the rescue's Flemish 'spokesbunny' recently suffered a badly broken leg taking a bad jump in his pen (and eventually passed away after surgery). When the rescue posted x-rays, the harassers had somebody professing to be an expert tell their mindless followers they were of a dog and the rescue was trying to solicit illicit funds.

It's frightening not only that these people go to these lengths, but that others actually believe this stuff. 

:shock:


----------



## Pipp (Sep 6, 2012)

*MiniLopHop wrote: *


> :yeahthat: Pipp, I totally agree! When LMRR was first recommended to me I had second thoughts from the smear campaign. I kept an open mind and talked to the members directly rather than believing what I was told second hand. I am very glad I did because I have found them to be an excellent, extremely caring group of people. They take in and place so many rabbits that would have no hope otherwise. They do amazing work.
> 
> It really is a horrible shame the hoops they are jumping through with the health department now because of hard hearted people. The health department is forcing regulations that were written and logical for DOGS on a rabbit rescue! Repeat after me: Dogs are not Rabbits. Rabbits are not Dogs! This entire time the care and well being of the rabbits has been the highest priority.
> 
> Shame on anyone who goes after someone working their butt off saving lives. It is hard enough educating the public without needing to fight against people who should be on the same side. Bullying doesn't go away after school ends because some refuse to grow up. :disgust:



:yeahthat:

Great last line especially.


----------



## slavetoabunny (Sep 6, 2012)

I live in FL, but have been to the rescue many times. I would be happy to answer any questions anyone has. Thanks everyone for their support. PS...hereinjersey is known on FB as Robin Hooder if you happen to have friended her.


----------



## Pipp (Sep 6, 2012)

Caught the Robin Hooder one, thanks. These guys are constantly making up fake profiles. 

I wish they'd get a life and start helping rescue instead of hurting it.  


sas


----------



## slavetoabunny (Sep 6, 2012)

I would have love to see what she posted before it was edited.


----------



## fourleggedfrog (Sep 6, 2012)

COMMENTS INSERTED BY THE FORUM OWNER IN RED: 

Little Miracles Rabbit Rescue
2308 Auburn Ave
Atco, NJ 08004
(Township of Waterford, Camden County)

Continuation sheet for inspection conducted on August 16, 2012 by Linda Frese and Renee Cirillo, New Jersey Department of Health, and James Perry, Camden County Department of Health.

Section 8:23A	Deficiency

1.2 (b)	A certificate of local health inspection was not prominently displayed at the facility.

- officious, doesn't affect the rabbits

1.2 (c)	The back area of the small animal room is currently under construction, and is intended to be used as a new isolation room, or other separate animal holding area. Outdoor enclosures are also being installed. Plans have not yet been received by the Camden County Health Department for these renovations and new construction. Plans must be submitted to the local health authority for review and approval for both indoor and outdoor renovations and improvements before construction and operation begins. A schematic showing the layout and operation of the ventilation system used for the isolation room must also be submitted in the plans to the local health authority. The ventilation in an isolation room must exhaust directly to the outdoors and must not mix with the air of the general population. Permits and approvals must also be received from the local municipal code official as required for new construction and renovations. Please submit plans to the local health authority within 2 weeks of the date of this inspection. 

- officious, doesn't affect the rabbits

1.3 (a)	A new air conditioning unit has been installed inside the facility, but is leaking water onto the floor. This unit must be properly drained or repaired to prevent such leakage onto the floor.

- officious, ridiculously minor

1.3 (c)	The rabbit food container is now covered, but alfalfa and hay is stored in uncovered containers unprotected from contamination. 

- contamination of hay is more likely in a covered container, hay is not the same as cat and dog food.
 
1.3 (f)	The clothes dryer exhaust is being temporarily discharged into a small water filtration device connected with plastic flexible tubing. Please consult with the local building code official regarding the proper metal exhaust tubing and elbows required for clothes dryers to prevent a fire hazard. 

- noted as temporary

The facility is currently being reorganized, but at the time of this inspection, several donated items, different than the donated items noted during the last inspection were in the middle of the floor in front of the of the main office, which is the main walkway between the two animal rooms at the facility.

- officious, doesn't affect the rabbits

1.4 (d)	The caging in the main rabbit room has been rearranged to permit better illumination of the primary enclosures where rabbits are housed. The lighting in the small animal room is still insufficient to view the bottom cages of the stacked cage units located against the inside wall of this room. Several light bulbs throughout the facility were not working and were in need of replacement. 

- rabbits live in underground burrows and are more comfortable in dark spaces. they are not dogs or cats.

1.4 (f)	The floors in the isolation room are stained and are not impervious to moisture. All interior building surfaces shall be constructed and maintained so that they are impervious to moisture and may be readily cleaned. 

- a dog/cat shelter is a sterile, stainless steel facility designed to be hosed down and disinfected. this is an extremely uncomfortable environment for rabbits whose natural environments are dirt and wood burrows. this is instinctively reprehensible to their mental well-being which in turn affects their physical well-being. rabbits immune systems drop dramatically with stress.

1.5 (e)	Outdoor enclosures are being erected that consist of sand as flooring material. Surfaces of outdoor enclosures shall be constructed and maintained so that they are impervious to moisture and may be readily cleaned and disinfected; run off from outdoor enclosures must be properly disposed of as required by the municipal sewerage authority. Please submit plans to the local heath authority, as well as the municipal code official if required, for approval before construction of these enclosures continues.

- rabbits love digging in sand and they're instinctively happier outdoors. there is no point to having an outdoor enclosure if the environment is not natural. again, this is an extremely uncomfortable environment for rabbits whose natural environment are dirt and wood burrows. this is instinctively reprehensible to their mental well-being.

1.6 (a)	Animal enclosures are not maintained in good repair. The wooden painted cages designated as âthe condosâ have chewed and worn surfaces and are unable to be properly cleaned and disinfected. If new cages are going to be constructed that include a self contained drainage system as explained by the owner during the previous inspection, a copy of the plans should be submitted to the local health authority to ensure compliance with State and local rules, regulations, and ordinances.

- rabbits are closer to horses or chickens than cats and dogs and shelter rules for their comfort and care should reflect that. 

- this is the equivalent of asking a farm to look like a hospital. 

1.6 (a)4.	Some rabbits are unable to remain clean and dry due to the amount of excreta in their primary enclosures. The rabbit enclosures in the main rabbit room were not cleaned often enough to prevent the rabbits from becoming contaminated with their own urine and feces, or the urine and feces of the other rabbits housed in the same enclosure.

- rabbits are continuously defecating and urinating. they forage, poop and pee. there is no such thing as a clean litterbox, especially when the recommended handfuls of hay are also provided in the litter boxes. this is something few officials understand. they are not dogs or cats. 

1.6 (d)	Wire boxes were being constructed to hold rabbits during the cleaning process. These holding boxes must be constructed in such a manor as to prevent injury to or escape of the rabbits placed in them.

- this precludes rabbits from having any free-run time while their pens are being cleaned? they have to be placed in boxes? 

1.7 (a)	Hay used as food for the rabbits that is placed inside litter receptacles is not discarded and replaced on a daily basis as required. Upon arrival, inspectors noted that rabbits had no pellet type food in their enclosures. Almost all the rabbits were jumping on their enclosure doors excitedly awaiting their food rations. During the previous inspection, inspectors were told that pellet type food is only given every other day. Rabbits must be fed at least once each day. Food from the previous day shall be discarded and fresh food supplied daily. 

- HRS and other guidelines say rabbits should only be fed a handful of pellets and only as much as they can eat at one setting, or less, eg: every second day. No rabbit caregiver without a vendetta would argue this.

- with this type of proper care, the pellets become treats, of course they're going to be excited.

- most rescues will add new hay on top of old hay for at least a day or two. 
*
*
1.7 (b)	Food, particularly hay, is placed in the litter boxes for the rabbits to eat. This hay is contaminated with excreta and is not discarded and replaced on a daily basis as required in 1.7 (a) above. - as above, rabbits need to be encouraged to eat hay, thus its placed in their litter boxes. rabbits continuously defecate when they forage. there is no such thing as a clean litterbox when the recommended handfuls of hay are also provided. they are not dogs or cats.  The sugar glider housed at the facility was being fed a type of pellet food that was stored in a NestlÃ©âs Quick container. The owner of the facility did not know what type of food was in the container, so inspectors were unable to determine if the sugar glider was being fed an appropriate diet. Food shall be free from contamination, wholesome, palatable, and of sufficient quantity and nutritional value to meet the normal daily requirements for the condition and size of the animal. 

- this just says the officials couldn't determine the brand of food.

 1.7 (d)	Hay used as food for the rabbits is placed inside the litter boxes and quickly becomes contaminated by excreta. Containers of food shall be accessible to animals and shall be located so as to minimize contamination by excreta. Hay racks designed for feeding purposes and properly secured inside cages to prevent injury to the animals, may be used to prevent contamination of hay. 

- rabbits need to be encouraged to eat hay, thus its placed in their litter boxes. rabbits continuously defecate when they forage. there is no such thing as a clean litterbox when the recommended handfuls of hay are also provided. they are not dogs or cats. 

1.7 (e)	Feeding pans are not cleaned and disinfected on a daily basis as required. Rabbit food was placed in the food bowls that had been left in the enclosure since the previous feeding.



1.7 (h)	Upon arrival, inspectors noted that some water bottles were completely empty. Water must be accessible to animal at all times, unless contraindicated by the supervising veterinarian. Water bottles are not cleaned on a daily basis. Some of the water bottles contained a green film. Receptacles for water must be cleaned daily. 

1.8 (a)	Excreta is not removed from primary enclosures often enough to prevent contamination of the animals contained therein, and to control odors. At the time of inspection, there was a strong urine odor in the main rabbit room.

- urine odors are exacerbated by the presence of wet hay. the odors are almost impossible to control when unlimited hay is being administered in bedding as recommended by the HRS and other sources. 

1.8 (b)	Primary enclosures are not cleaned often enough to prevent an accumulation of debris and excreta. At the time of this inspection, there was an excessive amount of excreta and debris on cage floors and resting benches in enclosures of rabbits that are not litter trained.

- the constant use full bales of hay generate dust and debris. cobwebs are a natural result and are not harmful. 


1.8 (c)	Cages and hard surfaced pens are not cleaned and disinfected on a daily basis. During this inspection, no cages were cleaned during the hours that inspectors were on the premises. There were no disinfectants currently being used in animal enclosures. The only disinfectant on the premises was a small bottle of bleach, but inspectors were told that disinfectants will not be used in animal enclosures. Floors are not disinfected on a daily basis. All floors, animal enclosures and other pens or holding areas must be cleaned and disinfected on a daily basis. Urine encrusted stains in primary enclosures and litter receptacles must be thoroughly scrubbed to remove the stains before the final disinfection process.

- dogs don't defaecate in litter boxes, cat waste is particularly gnarly and both carry many communicable diseases requiring sterile conditions. rabbits do not. pasturella is only a minor concern, very few strains are virulent enough to be an issue, they're easy to spot and isolate and the sterile conditions for rabbits are more detrimental than helpful. Establishing and boosting proper immune systems in rabbits are paramount, they need environmental exposure. 


- disinfectants are detrimental to rabbits' respiratory and olfactory systems, instinctively uncomfortable, environmentally unfriendly and as noted causes immunity issues.

Inspectors were told that steam cleaners will be purchased to clean and disinfect primary enclosures. There are many steam cleaners available on the market, but not all steam cleaners produce enough heat to generate steam that is sufficient to destroy microorganisms. It is strongly recommended that the steam cleaner purchased is certified by the Federal EPA for disinfection purposes. 

- rabbits don't need steam cleaners, rabbits do not carry communicable diseases and the only one they do carry, pasturella, will be more communicable with the humidity! 

1.9 (a)	Records must be made available regarding the treatment of animals at the facility, such as daily medical logs indicating the type of treatment provided and the duration of treatment. There were several animals in the isolation room at the time of this inspection, but only one animal, a guinea pig named Bippy, had a medical chart indicating the daily medication this animal was to receive. There were several missed days of medication for this guinea pig according to the medical chart on the animalâs cage. Evidence of veterinary examinations and site visits with documented findings must also be made available to inspectors. These records are required to document compliance with the provisions of this act. A medical folder was being developed at the time of this inspection for use in the isolation room that will show the treatment each animal is receiving and the reason for the animalâs isolation.

- this is not neglecting rabbits, its neglecting the ridiculous amount of paperwork required mostly to satisfy the harassers who are mass reporting minor offenses!

- more volunteers and donations or better yet, fundraising to hire a full time staff member will alleviate these problems. please donate if not volunteer. 

1.9 (g)	Multiple items, including a dishwasher was stored in the isolation room at the time of this inspection. There were several animal carriers stored in the isolation room that contained hay, feces, and other materials that had not been cleaned out.

- officious (carriers were empty).

The isolation room is not to be used for any purpose other than the segregation of animals with signs of communicable disease. All items that are being stored in the isolation room must be removed, cleaned and disinfected, or disposed of if the item can not be disinfected, and appropriately stored elsewhere to prevent contamination.

Animals that were not exhibiting or being treated for signs of communicable disease were housed in the isolation room at the time of this inspection. There were no daily treatment logs or other records showing that animals housed in the isolation room were being treated for a communicable disease. 

- rabbits very rarely carry communicable diseases or communicable parasites, and the ones they do carry are easily eradicated. 

1.13 (a)	Some animals housed at the facility did not have proper records at the time of this inspection. There were several cages that did not have cage cards or other identifying information for the animals contained in the enclosures. 

All animals housed at the shelter must have proper records indicating the date the animal arrived, description of the animal, breed, age, and sex; name of the owner or person from whom the animal was acquired, and the final disposition of the animal when the animal dies or otherwise leaves the facility.

- shelters requiring this level of record keeping are traditionally funded! to request this from a volunteer-run operation is unreasonable, and even professionally run operations get busy and have lapses in paperwork. 

- bottom line is that while given the level of complaints instigated by the very aggressive harassers, its understandable the city wants to put them under this microscope, but it's still not only grossly unfair, its detrimental to the rabbits! 


DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT A FRIEND OR AN ACQUAINTANCE OF KRISTIE CORSON OR ANYONE ELSE INVOLVED IN THIS RESCUE!! I AM A PROFESSIONAL REPORTER WHO HAS INVESTIGATED THESE COMPLAINTS FOR YEARS WITHOUT EVER FINDING SERIOUS VIOLATIONS, ONLY COUNTLESS INSTANCES OF PERSONAL GRUDGES AND FAMILY DISAGREEMENTS LEADING TO AN ASTOUNDING LEVEL OF HARASSMENT!! 

THIS IS DEMORALIZING AND CONFUSING RESCUES ALL ACROSS THE CONTINENT AND IT NEEDS TO STOP!!!!!!


----------



## slavetoabunny (Sep 6, 2012)

Thank you new member fourleggedfrog (aka...um, I know who you are but won't post it publicly). I was supplied with this information prior to your posting it. Anyhoo....I sure wish that these people were as diligent at my local county animal shelter or many others that I have been to. It still sounds like a witch hunt to me.


----------



## hereinjersey (Sep 6, 2012)

read the report, dog kennel stuff is not mentioned.


----------



## slavetoabunny (Sep 6, 2012)

Froglegs and Jersey....get a clue. Your vitriol is not welcome on this forum. As Pipp said (and she is the owner here) this is not the place for this vendetta. Keep it elsewhere.


----------



## fourleggedfrog (Sep 6, 2012)

It is not a vendetta when you post the facts of a government inspection that she actually stated that she had on LMRR facebook page. This is the truth of the inspection. You want to believe her over the Health Dept??


----------



## slavetoabunny (Sep 6, 2012)

I did not say that. All I say is that this is not the place for this. There are other forums more suited for complaints of his nature.


----------



## kmaben (Sep 6, 2012)

1.7 (e)	Feeding pans are not cleaned and disinfected on a daily basis as required. Rabbit food was placed in the food bowls that had been left in the enclosure since the previous feeding

Are they going to come get my rabbits now too?


----------



## slavetoabunny (Sep 6, 2012)

Yeah....be afraid, be very afraid!


----------



## slavetoabunny (Sep 6, 2012)

I sanitize my bowls once a week. And then they were also criticized by the likes of hereinjersey and fourleggedfrog (elsewhere) for attempting to raise funds for a commercial dishwasher to comply with this.


----------



## fourleggedfrog (Sep 6, 2012)

when you have 125 rabbits, 37 Guinea pigs, 19 rats/mice, 10 gerbils, 1 sugar glider, 11 hamsters like was stated on August 16, 2012 - then maybe you would worry


----------



## MiniLopHop (Sep 6, 2012)

I also have hay in my litter boxes. I'm guessing MANY here do!

I have been in several animal rescues that would get this same report or something similar. It doesn't mean the animals are not being cared for, it means rescues need more resources.

I have been on the other side of a government inspection at work. They can take the smallest infraction and blow it up HUGE sounding on paper. How many of these findings are subjective? (not enough or too much, by who's judgement?)

I have been going through the process of bonding my 6 rabbits. At first they had a poop war. Yes I cleaned it daily, but 5 minutes after I cleaned it still looked like a poop bomb went off. Does that mean my rabbits were neglected? I don't think so.

Note there's never a long-term member, or even one who has been here active for 6 months, that posts this kind of crap.


----------



## slavetoabunny (Sep 6, 2012)

fourleggedfrog wrote:


> when you have 125 rabbits, 37 Guinea pigs, 19 rats/mice, 10 gerbils, 1 sugar glider, 11 hamsters like was stated on August 16, 2012 - then maybe you would worry



I say be supportive and HELP them instead of doing your best to take them down. Please post YOUR address so we can deliver these animals to your door.

Just quit now and go away.


----------



## MiniLopHop (Sep 6, 2012)

They are constantly adopting out animals and taking in others. They are not the same individuals there forever (which would be the case in your rediculous hoarder argument). It is a sad commentary about how animals are disposible in our society, but LMRR opens their arms to all in need. That qualifies them as heros to me!

Go throw mud elsewhere. :tantrum:


----------



## slavetoabunny (Sep 6, 2012)

LOL, I am with internal audit with one of the top 10 largest banks in the US.....just trying to deal with the OCC.


----------



## bunnylady2 (Sep 6, 2012)

then where is the place for it if not here? Just asking...why would they lie? just sayin


----------



## bunnylady2 (Sep 6, 2012)

then where is the place for it if not here? Just asking...why would they lie? just sayin


----------



## fourleggedfrog (Sep 6, 2012)

I don't believe I ever said anything about hoarding on this thread. If you cannot follow the guideline set out by the Dept. of Health, that you come up with all sorts of stories that they want you to turn your place into a "dog kennel" there is a time to provide the proof, the written proof of what actually went down. Oh and Ms Slave to a bunny why don't you just write them another check - pay their rent like you did in June, and the phone bill - obviously she didn't get your money to pay the gas bill.


----------



## hereinjersey (Sep 6, 2012)

sas's comments in red... 

Just read the reports. I guess the DOH is lying now? I don't get you people. 

1. no hot water b/c gas is turned off. This is after raising THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. 

- you complain when they wrack up the gas bill and then you complain when they're being frugal. rabbits don't need hot water. 

2. NO MENTION of the wire grates that the owner says DOH is insisting upon.

- wire grates are the only method of keeping feces from being visible around the forage material, eg hay.

3. Setting bunnies LEGS with splints, and NO VET VISIT ON RECORD FOR 1 MONTH AFTERWARDS.

- experienced caregivers are well equipped to treat rabbits with splints, antibiotics and pain meds on a simple break with vet advice, there is nothing a vet would do differently. 

4. Water bottles DRY. 

- yes, rabbits drink the water, sometimes bottles leak, and rescues always need more volunteers to help with these things, or enough funds to hire somebody, please volunteer or donate. 

5. Taking in wildlife without the proper permits.

- so no rescues or shelters should accept or stop to help sick wildlife because they're not official rehabbers and don't have the proper permit? so leave them to suffer? this is far worse than self-treating a broken leg, don't you think? 

6. Building without the proper permits.

- this is rabbit abuse? 
 
7. Putting buns in cages so dark they needed flashlights to see them.

- rabbits live in underground burrows and are very comfortable in small dark spaces. they are not dogs or cats.
 
8. COPIOUS AMOUNTS OF URINE AND EXCREMENT. 

- rabbits are continuously defecating and urinating. they forage, poop and pee. there is no such thing as a clean litterbox, especially when the recommended handfuls of hay are also provided in the litter boxes. this is something few officials understand. they are not dogs or cats. 


READ THE REPORTS.


----------



## hereinjersey (Sep 6, 2012)

1.7 (a)	Hay used as food for the rabbits that is placed inside litter receptacles is not discarded and replaced on a daily basis as required. *Upon arrival, inspectors noted that rabbits had no pellet type food in their enclosures. Almost all the rabbits were jumping on their enclosure doors excitedly awaiting their food rations. During the previous inspection, inspectors were told that pellet type food is only given every other day. Rabbits must be fed at least once each day. Food from the previous day shall be discarded and fresh food supplied daily.

*- HRS and other guidelines say rabbits should only be fed a handful of pellets and only as much as they can eat at one setting, or less, eg: every second day. No rabbit caregiver without a vendetta would argue this.

- with this type of proper care, the pellets become treats, of course they're going to be excited.

- rabbits need to be encouraged to eat hay, thus its placed in their litter boxes. rabbits continuously defecate when they forage. there is no such thing as a clean litterbox when the recommended handfuls of hay are also provided. they are not dogs or cats. 
*

*


----------



## hereinjersey (Sep 6, 2012)

Lighting in most areas of the facility was insufficiently distributed to permit routine inspection and cleaning during the entire working period. *Most of the cages against the walls in all rooms were dark and inspectors were unable to view inside the enclosures without the use of a flashlight.

*- rabbits live in underground burrows and are very comfortable in small dark spaces. they are not dogs or cats.


----------



## hereinjersey (Sep 6, 2012)

*All interior surfaces throughout the entire facility were covered in dust, dirt and debris and not kept clean.* All surfaces, including the area where cleaning supplies are stored and where hay and feed is dispensed must be kept free of an accumulation of dust, dirt and debris. Cobwebs, dirt and debris must be removed from all areas, including ceilings, walls, shelves, electric outlets, lighting fixtures, stored caging, carriers, etc. Areas around sinks, wash basins, counter tops, refrigerators, food preparation areas, and the washer and dryer area must be scrubbed clean and kept in good repair. Items creating clutter must be either removed or properly stored to prevent nuisances and to facilitate proper cleaning throughout the facility. *Areas around primary enclosures where urine, feces, and debris accumulate must be thoroughly scrubbed to remove the dried, encrusted urine stains and cleaned and disinfected on a daily basis.


*- rabbits are closer to horses or chickens than cats and dogs and shelter rules for their comfort and care should reflect that. 

- the constant use full bales of hay generate dust and debris. cobwebs are a natural result and are not harmful. 

- this is the equivalent of asking a farm to look like a hospital. 

- dogs don't defaecate in litter boxes, cat waste is particularly gnarly and both carry many communicable diseases requiring sterile conditions. rabbits do not. pasturella is only a minor concern, very few strains are virulent enough to be an issue, they're easy to spot and isolate and the sterile conditions for rabbits are more detrimental than helpful. Establishing and boosting proper immune systems in rabbits are paramount, they need environmental exposure. 


- disinfectants are detrimental to rabbits' respiratory and olfactory systems, instinctively uncomfortable, environmentally unfriendly and as noted causes immunity issues.


----------



## slavetoabunny (Sep 6, 2012)

FYI...don't know where you are getting your mis-information, but I didn't pay their rent in June or their phone bill. Enough of this. This forum will not tolerate this type of posts.


----------



## slavetoabunny (Sep 6, 2012)

If any of these people start anything new, then they need to be banned. No guarantees they will not start another new, fake account.


----------



## Pipp (Sep 7, 2012)

As you know, this forum rarely bans anyone, but if this continues, the IP addresses will be blocked.  

Its putting the entire rescue community in a terrible light. 

People really need to let the harassers know they don't like seeing this stuff!

The rabbit community CAN make it stop, but they need to speak up! The leaders especially need to 'just say STOP!' to 'Bunny Justice' and her/their supporters! 


sas :grumpy:


----------



## kmaben (Sep 8, 2012)

Do these people even own rabbits?


----------



## hereinjersey (Sep 8, 2012)

OKAY,SINCE YOU OPENED IT UP TO DISCUSSION: 

1. Setting The animal's LEG BY THE OWNER and that said animal NOT SEEING THE VET FOR A WEEK. 


If that's acceptable to you, SAS, I feel for your rabbits. I really do.


----------



## hereinjersey (Sep 8, 2012)

I am done here, ban if you want. I expected nothing less seeing these moderators. AND YES, I do own 3 rabbits for 3 years. And a dog. And have had rabbits for the last 10 years. My rabbits get water every day, pellets EVERY DAY (a small amount), greens every day, and hay UNLIMITED DAY AND NIGHT. I do not take in any more animals than I can adequately care for. They also are in a condo and have free run of the house at multiple times when I lock up the dog. and they have never had any health problems but do see the vet and do get routine grooming. I would do no less.


----------



## fourleggedfrog (Sep 8, 2012)

Much of the rebuttal is about "wild rabbits" these rescued rabbits live in pens not out in the wild.


----------



## Pipp (Sep 8, 2012)

No, Lorraine, it's about rabbit RESCUE and people who save the lives of hundreds of rabbits, not a group of armchair quarterbacks with grudges from hell (or worse, they're blindly following friends with grudges from hell) and not even allowing (much less assisting) the rescues to do their job without constant interference. 

And yes, I've have a rabbit here now who had a broken leg and no, I didn't take her into the vet, although I did consult with one. She was a recently arrived rescue, very nervous, she was holding it up and I did not think it was worth the risk of grabbing her and having her kick out and do further damage. We confirmed it had been broken once it was well on its way to healing. 

I've also been running this forum dealing with hundreds (or thousands) of rabbit health issues for over seven years and I've seen how many broken bone surgeries have worked out vs. how many breaks have healed on their own, and I know when I'm going to play the odds. Kristie's broken leg rabbit was fine. It would have been as much of a risk to take her into to the vet. That makes our actions a personal treatment choice based on experiences -- experiences you don't have -- and not abuse. 

But if you think I should be shut down just like you think Kristie should be shut down, send me your address and I'll add my current load of 64 rabbits to Kristie's 125 (or whatever) and you can deal with them. 

And you can send a sympathy card when the 300 rabbits we're in the process of rescuing end up dead. 

But hey, gotta be better than occasional dirty litter boxes, huh. 

You're a great person, I have no problem with you on any other topic, ditto with Linda and Liz, but you guys have bought into a really bad batch of kool-aid. 

You have to ask yourself that even if this level of perceived 'abuse' is true, is worth being this disruptive, detrimental, sucking out of resources out of rescue and the creation of all this horrendous ill will?

Every minute and every dollar could be spend on true cruelty investigations, factory farming, backyard breeders, abandoned street bunnies and so many other things.  

sas :tears2:


----------



## furriestfriends (Sep 8, 2012)

I don't believe that we are sucking any resources out of the rescue. The DOH went in on their own and did their inspection. And the setting of the leg, you don't feel that two people, one who has no experience with rabbits, sets the leg, it swells, they remove the metal bracing and leave it for almost a month or more to be seen by a vet? The animal was in severe pain when it was brought it and you know that. But she chose to do her own vetting which she is not allowed to do without the supervision of a vet. If the vet had said go ahead and set it - fine - but NO VET was ever contacted. To me that was abuse. Now as for what the DOH is asking - some I agree with some I don't but we were lead to believe the whole place needed new lighting and that is not the fact. The bulbs needed replacing and possibly more lighting added. BIG difference. It is also stated in there "A schematic showing the layout and operation of the ventilation system used for the isolation room must also be submitted in the plans to the local health authority. The ventilation in an isolation room must exhaust directly to the outdoors and must not mix with the air of the general population. Permits and approvals must also be received from the local municipal code official as required for new construction and renovations. Please submit plans to the local health authority within 2 weeks of the date of this inspection." Has this been done - NO. But construction still continues. So what happens in the event that they come back and see the work and it is done wrong - who is going to responsible for that. Not me, not you. What I'm saying is "do it the right way first" then you have less problems, less people breathing down your neck.


----------



## Pipp (Sep 9, 2012)

Linda, you're sucking MY resources right now and everybody else's who reads this junk and has to sort out ridiculously trivial accusations. 

You just caused one unrelated volunteer to back out of rescue, lord knows how many more have done the same. He read just a smidgeon of this stuff (he found it on his own with no help from me) and just told me he thinks rescue is too combative and stressful for him. He's out. 

Did you READ the study article I posted? This is extremely common! Unrelated witnesses WILL SUFFER STRESS. And that's exactly what's happened. 

You don't agree with her care on this one rabbit. Fine. For the sake of the argument, lets say she was wrong. But its obviously an isolated case, isn't it? 

You are going on AD NAUSEUM about this one rabbit. You don't agree with her care. Fine. Did you talk to her vet about it? Bet your booties someone did. Are we seeing any vet reports or even vet complaints? No. Your group's only vet reference is a MANIPULATIVE LIE saying they reported her when all they did was notify them they were no longer the vet on record. 

Don't you think with true abuse worthy of shutting down a rescue the vet would have something to say? 

LMRR deals with vets CONSTANTLY, on a daily basis, the SPCA deals with LMRR constantly, they are NOT REPORTING ABUSE! They think this is harassment!! 

Looking at the rest of your complaint you're talking about LIGHT BULBS for chrissake!! If you find the shelter's lightbulbs worthy of inclusion when you're documenting abuse, what does that tell you about your ammunition? 

It's microscopic and officious and SOLELY BROUGHT ON BECAUSE OF YOUR GROUP'S HARASSMENT! 

You didn't outline these complaints, you didn't even know about schematics, details and rules on ventilation systems, isolation room or anything else! You were just looking for AMMUNITION and this is what you've found! 

The same problems would have been found in 70% of the shelters inspected to that degree of detail, do you want them shut down too? 

But no, it's not personal, it's not a vendetta, is it? 

The only people breathing down her neck are you and your 'Bunny Justice' cronies. 

And here's another hour taken away from the rabbits. Congrats on that. Good job. 

Not.

I did question you about this, I listened to all your complaints, asked questions and looked into what you told me and absolutely nothing you said held water, sorry. 

Nobody other than your core group agrees with you, and most of your group seems to have to make up fake names to reiterate your points, which is yet another sign this whole thing is bogus or grossly exaggerated at best. 

People are not backing you on this, they're too polite or they don't want to get involved, but almost everybody in rescue now realizes this really is just the bullying of an unpopular rescue owner and nothing more than that. 

For your own sake, step back from this crap. 

You're being painted with the same disruptive nutbar brush as the rest of the BJ whackos.


----------



## furriestfriends (Sep 9, 2012)

Maybe you should call the DOH yourself and hear their side. Maybe you should call the NJ Charities Fraud department and hear their side.
Maybe you should call the NJ SPCA and hear their side.


----------



## Pipp (Sep 9, 2012)

Linda, I'm a professional investigative journalist. I have done ALL that and more.

Why do you think I'm defending the rescue? I'm not a friend, I don't know her. Unlike you guys, my involvement is NOT personal. 

There are no violations abusive to rabbits, there is no charities fraud, just a family dispute over money (more harassment from the relative who started all this), totally unrelated to rabbits, and I can't believe you're even bringing up the NJ SPCA, you know they're supporting her. Your cronies usually go on about how they're in collusion. 

You've been fed a back of lies. You don't like Kristie. Your own experiences are no more than once having seen litter boxes that were due for cleaning.

Give it up. This isn't your fight. You're a better person than this.


----------



## Nancy McClelland (Sep 9, 2012)

:soapbox I'm right and you're not, by extension. So what if my mind is so narrow that my ears are rubbing, I still know I'm right. I thought this forum was about the care and sharing of our experiences with our furry little poop machines. If I want to hear a lot of unsupported attacks containing blatant falsehoods, I'll watch political ads. One of my favorite classes in college, a math class titled "How to lie with Statistics". That combined with "Rhetoric" and I can twist anything you say or do by how I phrase a question or select bits and pieces out of any study or statement. George Carlin said it best, "God must love stupid people 'cause he made so darn many!"


----------



## furriestfriends (Sep 9, 2012)

LMRR was investigated in January of 2012 for running raffles illegally, their books were not up to date, they had to pay a fine in order to receive their charity status. It had been documented. Now the NJ Charities Fraud department is also investigating and if you got information as to what they are looking for that would be interesting. This rescue is being run illegally and at present is having s/n today without a health certificate on their premises. They do not have clearance to this.


----------



## Pipp (Sep 9, 2012)

They were harassed by you guys via the charities board just like you're now harassing them using the health board. 

Somebody really needs to follow you everywhere you go and report you every time you don't completely stop at a stop sign and document your litter boxes every time your rabbit poops. 

'Illegal' raffles are more common than not, you'll probably find bingo games you can shut down as well if some poor senior bruises your ego. The letter of the law on these things is only complaint driven, they don't otherwise care. 

Very sad.


----------



## kmaben (Sep 9, 2012)

Seriously just give it up. You're trying to push people who have already formulated an opinion. There's no moving on either side. Apparently you have nothing better to do than stalk nice people on a forum who just want to post pictures of their rabbits and and laugh at their antics. Every time I see this thread at the top because someone had to spew negativity makes me want to run screaming for the hills. There are things you just dont debate about. Politics and Religion. This falls under the politics category. Again there aren't enough people sitting on the fence to push them one way or another. Please go away. I'm sure you're rabbit is begging for attention but you're to wrapped up in a lost cause to notice. I just rubbed mine down into a nap. And took the picture. Where's that thread? The cute rabbits sleeping thread. I'm sure you'd enjoy that much more than your current course of destruction.


----------



## slavetoabunny (Sep 9, 2012)

I'm really not sure how long it's going to take before these people realize they have no friends or support on this forum. Take your garbage somewhere else.


----------



## graceofangels (Sep 9, 2012)

As someone who just rescued a bun, this is so disheartening to read. And I don't mean about the LMRR inspection, but the back and forth on this thread. Honestly, if I had stumbled upon something like this in the first place, I probably wouldn't have adopted Millie. I was looking for a community to turn to for guidance and friendship as I'm a first time rabbit owner. 

I didn't get Millie from LMRR, but the first rabbit I was interested in was from there. However, within the three days of my application submission, he was adopted out already. Their adoption counselor is absolutely wonderful and even though I wasn't interested in the 2+ hour trek to Atco without a specific bunny in mind, she was more than helpful to answering nay questions I had on adopting another rabbit elsewhere. SHe will also answer texts day or night, and is always pleasant to help you in any way. From my personal experience with her, she really cares for not just the buns in the rescue but all bunnies.


----------



## slavetoabunny (Sep 9, 2012)

Pam is LMRR's adoption counselor. She is a a wonderful asset to the rescue!


----------



## graceofangels (Sep 10, 2012)

*slavetoabunny wrote: *


> Pam is LMRR's adoption counselor. She is a a wonderful asset to the rescue!


She's fantastic. She did prep me to let me know that most likely any bunny I adopted wouldn't even sleep with me anywhere near them in the first few weeks. And the adjustment period is not what many sites claim as being a few days. 

I've had my girl for a few days now, and she stares at me from her little hut. Like she weighing her options, should I like her, shouldn't I like her. She feeds me, but she's so big!


----------



## hereinjersey (Sep 19, 2012)

Pix from inspection 1- failed, and inspection 2-conditional B (open while making changes). 


https://picasaweb.google.com/MLMLPS43/LMRR

or go to petwatchnj.org and scroll down to LMRR article and pix link.


----------



## MiniLopHop (Sep 19, 2012)

I don't think the photos really help your case, they aren't bad. Rabbits are poop machines! This is a picture from a visit I did with my rabbits to a friend's house. They have a disabled child who loved the bunny visit. The photo was taken less than an hour after their arrival:

http://s1108.photobucket.com/albums/h409/MiniLopHop/?action=view&current=IMG_1210.jpg

Some of the photos you have there's even less going on. Does that mean I am an unfit bunparrent because there were some poos in their playpen?


----------



## slavetoabunny (Sep 21, 2012)

Thank you Brandy. Lorraine and Linda are just bitter.


----------



## whitelop (Sep 21, 2012)

Good lord, if all this is about poop in litter boxes, then I should be worried about the Dept of Health coming and taking my rabbit from me. I have dust, fur, hay and other things all around my house. Are you going to call the health department on me? 
You should see my floor when I let her out. Is that reason to take my rabbit away? 
If y'all are so serious about the poop, do you follow your rabbits around with hand held brooms and dust pans collecting every poop they drop? No, you don't. If you did, you wouldn't have the time in the world to slander a rescue like that! You'd spend all your time with a tiny broom and dust pan. 
How about you give us your address so we can come and inspect your litter boxes and your housing structure. We need to make sure you have the right light bulbs and make sure there is no poop in your cages. You know, because of health codes and everything. We also have to make sure you aren't moving any furniture around with out the proper permits. 
Or, if you're really such bunny activists, then we should just take the bunnies from the rescue and drop them off on your door step, see how well you can manage the poop then. 
Maybe you guys should spend less time trying to take a rescue down and more time with your rabbits. They're probably feeling a little neglected with all the time you spend dragging peoples names through the mud. 
Watch out, there might be some poop in your cages. Someone might call the Health Department on you!


----------



## slavetoabunny (Sep 21, 2012)

Hahaha....when I first had a bunny 10 years ago I used to go around with a tissue and pick up rabbit poo. Now I just shop vac.


----------



## Nancy McClelland (Sep 21, 2012)

:yeahthat: Why I bought a 25 gallon one--It gets emptied once a week. Like I said earlier, I can twist anything in print or that you say and use numbers like Michelangelo used a paint brush--this reminds me so much of all the political ads running currently. You can't reason with a close minded person, because they know they are right, so, "by extension, you are wrong". Give the flaming sack of poo the boot, please! This is an info exchange site where we help, not denigrate one another. I'd invite them "to attend the theological place of eternal punishment", but I'm pretty sure Beelzebub has higher standards than that.


----------



## whitelop (Sep 21, 2012)

LMAO. LARRY YOU'RE MY HERO!


----------



## slavetoabunny (Sep 21, 2012)

Way to go Larry! In the interest of full disclosure...I am a personal friend with the person in question. I would be more than happy to answer any questions via PM.


----------



## Ape337 (Sep 22, 2012)

Well..having watched this thread's progression and looking at all the pictures, and taking an unbiased view of the conditions, and doing some researching on my own of this shelter and all the controversy surrounding it, I've come to my own conclusion of the situation which may not be a popular opinion....
Hey, that's a really cute little harlequin bunny in there!

On a serious note, this group seems to have a lot of influence and supporters so maybe they could get together and create a huge volunteer network started in NJ to go into the rescue and give this lady a hand. Buns potty a bunch, like constantly, and unless she's got 24/7 vacuuming going on and spray cleaner flying through the air you're gonna see poop and pee. I don't know about you, but in my house we celebrate when the poop is plentiful, otherwise we know we've got sick bunnies!

A useful equation: tons of poop + lots of pee = bunnies not in GI stasis :biggrin:


----------



## ZRabbits (Sep 23, 2012)

Hey there, Hi there, Ho there, just dropped in to see the condition my condition was in. 

Gee, I got blocked for less, lol. 

Have a nice day.

K


----------



## graceofangels (Sep 23, 2012)

*ZRabbits wrote: *


> Hey there, Hi there, Ho there, just dropped in to see the condition my condition was in.
> 
> Gee, I got blocked for less, lol.
> 
> ...


Just have to say that I love your bunnies names. Yes HP!


----------



## kmaben (Sep 23, 2012)

Karen yay! Missed you and the tribe. How is Jake?


----------



## ZRabbits (Sep 23, 2012)

*graceofangels wrote: *


> *ZRabbits wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Hey there, Hi there, Ho there, just dropped in to see the condition my condition was in.
> ...



Thanks. Harry Potter is very close to my heart. Very special meaning.

K


----------



## ZRabbits (Sep 23, 2012)

*kmaben wrote: *


> Karen yay! Missed you and the tribe. How is Jake?


Missed you big time too. Jake is doing very well. Thanks so much for thinking of him and asking. How's your big bunny and your very dominate lady doing?

K


----------



## I_heart_Fraggles (Sep 23, 2012)

Welcome back Karen. Now lets please stay on topic


----------



## ZRabbits (Sep 23, 2012)

*I_heart_Fraggles wrote: *


> Welcome back Karen. Now lets please stay on topic



lol, I try to stay on topic, but it's not a topic some like to discuss. 

K


----------



## bunnyflo (Feb 16, 2013)

Admin: AKA: Sorelle Saidman, Rabbitats Rescue, Rabbitats, SAS rabbits, Rabbits Online...

When asked to post your "Investigative Reporting" (credible) facts, references or documents to rebut the truth posted on this website, you ran. :foreheadsmack:

http://causes.worldpeacemeet.com/stoplmrr/

Can you please post them here? 

Thanks


----------



## slavetoabunny (Feb 24, 2013)

This discussion will NOT start up again Linda Sue!


----------

