# Charlie and other markings



## jeanluc_pippen_merry (Aug 11, 2011)

How do you tell the difference between a charlie marking and other similar ones? I know it has to do with the moustache which was named after Charlie Chaplin, but sometimes i see rabbits with that mark but they will be called something else. How do you tell the difference?

Sooty and torte is also confusing. When i see something i think is a sooty, it ends up being a torte. How do you tell the difference? I think i remember reading somewhere that torte is the same as sooty, but i don't remember if it said torte or something else, but torte stuck in my head.


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## mistyjr (Aug 11, 2011)

A charlie haves no nose mark, I have a Broken Charlie black jersey wooly buck, He just haves eye markings and a few spots on hes back!


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## CCWelch (Aug 12, 2011)

Usually being a "Charlie" is indicative of being without a lot of markings. Generally any rabbit that is under marked is referred to as a charlie.

I don't believe that ARBA recognizes anything as being "sooty" it is torte or siamese or sable point or any one of other names.


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## jeanluc_pippen_merry (Aug 12, 2011)

Hi Misty. When you say no nose mark, do you mean the nose itself, or are you referring to the moustache? 

Hi Corely, thanks for the clarification. =)


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## mistyjr (Aug 12, 2011)

I didnt mean no nose.. lol... i meant to say they dont have any color markings on their nose like a butterfly marking like a mustache


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm not a breeder, but I've done some research on the broken pattern (trying to determine Gus's breeding).

You get the "charlie"pattern when you breed two "broken" (spotted) rabbits together. I believe it's 50% of the litter (on average) that will have the charlie pattern. Charlie's are indeed named after Charlie Chaplin becausesometimes the only marking they'll have is the mustache ("butterfly") on their nose!On average, they're90% white, with fewer spots than a regular broken rabbit.

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## jeanluc_pippen_merry (Aug 12, 2011)

*mistyjr wrote: *


> I didnt mean no nose.. lol... i meant to say they dont have any color markings on their nose like a butterfly marking like a mustache


LOL i know you didn't mean no nose! I meant no nose as in no colouration on the nose. xD hehe

Yes that's very helpful, thanks Rue. =)

Well i think im getting better at determining patterns! Now i just need to get the colours and breeds down and ill be on a roll! :coolness:


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Aug 12, 2011)

You can do plenty of broken to broken breedings and never get a charlie. But like others have said a charlie just doesnt have enough color to be showable. 


A tort, is generally a brownish colored rabbit with the underside either lilac, blue, black or chocolate.

I haven't heard sooty though it comes to mind when I think of a false Sable Point. The hair is very dirty in color.


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## HappyFarmBunnies (Aug 12, 2011)

I think sooty and smutty are sometimes used interchangeable; as in referring to shaded animals. 

Rue gave a great explanation of the Charlies. Defined by the ARBA, they are a broken rabbit with less than 10% broken pattern. (Now, how to determine that percentage is a whole nother story!)
They are unshowable, but can be useful in a broken breeding program for type.


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## mistyjr (Aug 13, 2011)

I got an broken x broken breeding and got an charlie, But color doesnt really matter, Its the body type, ears, ect, and then you worry about the color since that can be easy to fix


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## CCWelch (Aug 13, 2011)

Sometimes a Charlie is a positive thing- that is what gives us Blanc De Hotots and Dwarf Hotots without the charlie factor they would just be English Spots.


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## SNM (Aug 13, 2011)

Any thing less than 10% color is a Charlie. Breeding Brokens to Brokens will only give you a 25% chance of charlies(the best pairings in my opinion if you want a wide variety of patters.)

Breeders use them all the time with their broken programs. they creat gorgeous patterned brokens when paird with solids.


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## jeanluc_pippen_merry (Aug 13, 2011)

Are they not showable because they don't have enough markings to judge them fairly or something like that?


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## mistyjr (Aug 13, 2011)

*SNM wrote:*


> Breeders use them all the time with their broken programs. they creat gorgeous patterned brokens when paird with solids.



This is true, I used my charlie jw buck on 3 does. 2 solids and 1 broken. And I got some awesome babies!


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