# Sisters fighting! HELP!



## benny_08 (Nov 14, 2015)

Hi all. 

I have 2 female dwarf lops. They are sisters and were living together prior to picking them up. They are nearly 4 months old. 

They have had 2 fights since I bought them home. All other times they are inseparable. 

This fight, there is fur everywhere, one has a cut under her eye and I think the other is bleeding too but she won't let me pick her up (she's very timid still)

They are house rabbits. We separated them for a few minutes and then reintroduced and they seem ok now. They were eating happily together. 

I'm not sure what to do. I'm at work all day today and out this evening. I'm worried about leaving them together. And should I get the cut checked out at the vets?

I've only had them a week &#128555;


----------



## Preitler (Nov 14, 2015)

Hm, girls coming of age. That can happen, even after years there can be deadly fights. I have no experience with spaying, but I guess it could help since with my rabbits aggressions seems to be a hormonal issue. Imho more likely it's just a temporary issue while in puberty.

I have 3 does living together (and 18 kits right now), mother and 2 daughters from different litters. Mom doesn't get along too well with the youngest doe, so I gave her an extra hutch, and after 2 or three days I connected it to the old one by a tunnel. So this new hutch is moms territory, she accepts visits but if she is not in the mood she is left alone. The old hutch is common territory, where all rabbits meet, but there is no need to fight for dominance anymore since mom has her own small empire. 

So imho giving them some private space would be worth a try. 

But check the other doe right now if she needs a vet, no matter if she likes it or not. Sitting quietly in a corner is a bad sign. Their usual mode of serious fighting is grabbing the opponent with front legs and teeth and ripping open belly, genitals and so on with their back feet, and these are very strong. I had young bucks (they are more likely to fight than does) castrating each other and saw does deadly injured by another.


----------



## 3bunmom (Nov 14, 2015)

Preitler is right. Developmental hormones at work. Best to have them spayed as they are house rabbits (not breeding does and not spaying them increases likelihood of cancer in the uterine horns; get good references for rabbit vets because vets often grossly overcharge for this procedure).

They are probably battling for dominance. If one in particular is being aggressive and dominant toward the other, I recommend several days isolation. I once had great success with this as they had never been separated before, stressed and apparently decided it was better to be together and not fight . . . But that was AFTER they were spayed. Until they are spayed, keep them separate when not supervised. The competition between 2 does can be intense; that can be the hardest combination to bond. Seriously, dont risk further injury to either by leaving them together when you arent there.x&#9786;


----------



## 3bunmom (Nov 14, 2015)

And yes, have the vet check them; it's best to have an intro visit before spaying anyway. But try to get a good recommendation for a rabbit vet first. Not all vets who claim to treat rabbits are really much qualified and those are the ones who overcharge and unscrupulous ly take advantage.


----------



## Buns4Life_Cinder (Nov 14, 2015)

Get them spayed or should bring the hormones down and they will fight less


----------



## benny_08 (Nov 14, 2015)

Ahh. I haven't got enough space to create a whole other living quarters...I got 2 already bonded does so that I wouldn't have to do this...I'm seriously worried I've made a mistake getting two. Trouble is they seem so happy and loving the other 90% of the time...one was even grooming the other ones injured eye post fight...

I was keeping them in their run until litter training was successful. Do you think this could be a problem, do they need a bit more run around time outside of the run?


----------



## Blue eyes (Nov 14, 2015)

benny_08 said:


> Ahh. I haven't got enough space to create a whole other living quarters...I got 2 already bonded does so that I wouldn't have to do this...I'm seriously worried I've made a mistake getting two. Trouble is they seem so happy and loving the other 90% of the time...one was even grooming the other ones injured eye post fight...
> 
> I was keeping them in their run until litter training was successful. Do you think this could be a problem, do they need a bit more run around time outside of the run?


 
I'm afraid the problem is that you did not get two "already bonded" does. Baby "bonds" don't count as true bonds for just this reason - hormones often interfere. 

Countless times have members on RO heard the same scenario play out: person gets two baby bunnies. Buns cuddle and snuggle and 'seem' bonded. Then hormones kick in and all heck breaks loose. 

There is one solution right now (since these fights can turn more vicious and even lethal) and that is to separate them both asap. It is not safe to keep them together. 

Once they are both spayed and healed, it is possible to attempt to bond them for real. However, if they have been permitted to fight too often in this early stage, then it is possible that they will refuse to bond later. 

This is the risk one takes when getting two baby bunnies. There is no guarantee that they will ultimately bond. 

The best thing to do now is to keep them separated until they are both spayed. Once spayed, read up on the bonding process and go from there.


----------



## benny_08 (Nov 14, 2015)

I separated them while we were out this evening then opened up the cages when we got back and they immediately started fighting again &#128553; I've separated them off and won't be putting them together again! It's too horrific to watch. 

I got them from a breeder who didn't mention that they could fight. I wrongly assumed, as you said, that if they were bonded as babies they would be fine. &#128553;&#128553;&#128553; I'm not having much luck with rabbits &#128555;


----------



## Azerane (Nov 14, 2015)

It's very common for people selling off rabbits to lie about either their gender, their age or the fact that they're bonded. Much easier to sell two rabbits if you leave out the fact that they'll need to be desexed because otherwise they'll start fighting.

Even though they've fought, there's still a chance that they can be bonded. They will both need to be spayed, and following that spend some time apart while they heal. Then once they've healed, you can start to introduce them to each other in a neutral area.


----------



## stevesmum (Nov 15, 2015)

I agree with the above. Don't give up  you just got some challenging specimens, that's all! A break until they're spayed could be the best thing for everyone. Some people believe that any two rabbits can be bonded, some just take longer than others. Keep us posted though.


----------



## benny_08 (Nov 15, 2015)

I trust the breeder so I don't think she would give me false information about their sex etc. 

Is it too early to get them done? They are 17weeks...

It's very distressing watching them fight like that, I'm not sure I'm built for that sort of stress. What happens if they can't be bonded later on?! I seriously don't have enough room to keep them separate forever...


----------



## Buns4Life_Cinder (Nov 15, 2015)

Song sorry you just need patient they will come around it's most likely hormones so get them spayed, wait a couple weeks, then start the bonding process over. That should work out may take some time but it's totally worth it


----------



## Watermelons (Nov 15, 2015)

As everyone else has all ready said, baby bonds dont count. 
Keep them seperate (seperate enough they can forget the other one even exists)
Get them both spayed.
Try slow bonding processes in a neutral environment a month after that.

Yes they can be spayed now.
But if you cant find a vet confident enough to do it then all you will hear is that you have to wait until their 6+ months


----------



## Preitler (Nov 15, 2015)

benny_08 said:


> I'm not having much luck with rabbits


 Ah, don't be discouraged . There is a steep learning curve with rabbits. I know most people have no idea how interesting, individually and strongheaded rabbits can be, very different to that "sweet, cuddly, harmless" clichee. I wasn't aware of that either when I started. 

About getting rabbits with the wrong sex: No breeder lies about that. It's just that sometimes it is awfully difficult to sex them correctly, even very experienced breeders can err. It's not laike most other mamals where boys always look like boys, and gils like girls. Happened to me, got a doe who was a buck, and also I made that mistake already, resulting in surprise litters. Now I ask another breeder to take a look, and if there is any doubt I post pictures on the internet.

Anyway, you sure have 2 does, if not they would do something else than fighting


----------



## benny_08 (Nov 16, 2015)

Thank you for all your advice and comments. 

They are separate but they can still see each other and sniff each other through the cage. I'm going to speak to the breeder before changing the arrangement completely. My partner is not keen on months of keeping them separate and then bonding so suggested we just keep one &#128577; 

On a plus side, the shy one has come out of her shell and spent the last two evenings on the sofa with us 

but the one that was more outgoing has completely retreated and doesn't even like to be touched at all, is really jumpy at the slightest noise. I'm hoping she wasn't really hurt in one of their fights &#128533;


----------



## Aki (Nov 24, 2015)

Uh, yeah... Not to seem unpleasant but that's exactly why everyone should do their research before getting an animal. The keeping rabbits separate before they are spayed / neutered as the fact that 2 does are harder to bond together than a male / female couple are the kind of infos you would have found in any website / forum about rabbits if you had looked it up. Sorry, but the 'they are fighting so maybe we will just throw one away even if we just bought her' vibe of your last post is pretty awful. What's happening is not the rabbits' fault. The way they are acting is completely normal for teenage rabbits. If you had done your research as you should have, you wouldn't be in this situation. It's obvious you can't just blindly trust everything a breeder tells you - as nice and passionate as they can be about rabbits, they still have babies to sell (and they aren't always as knowledgable as they should be - I bought my youngest rabbit from a breeder specialised in mini lops who had beautiful rabits, but she clearly knew nothing about the correct diet to feed them and incorrectly advised me about it...).
Moreover I strongly advise against keeping only one of them. Rabbits are social animals, they are not meant to live alone. The decent thing to do now, even though it won't be very convenient for you and your partner will be keeping the rabbits separated until they are around 7-8 months old. Then you can have them spayed and wait a few weeks until they are healed.
A serious vet won't spay a 4 month old doe, as it is a pretty heavy surgery. It also depend on the size / weight of your rabbits. I suggest taking your rabbits to a vet now to discuss it with them and check everything is fine. Also that your rabbits really are does, as it can be hard to tell on baby rabbits and faulty sexing is pretty common (and that opens a whole new can of worms).
Once the rabbits are spayed, you'll need to completely wash their space with vinegar to remove all the smells and put them together again at the same time, supervised, and pray that they get along.

If you want to do things well, I suggest you read all the articles on the 'care' section of this website:
http://rabbit.org/#
It contains all you need to know to care about your rabbits, about diet, bonding and housing accommodations.
Good luck.


----------



## majorv (Nov 24, 2015)

Based on the behavior you described I tend to think you do have two does. It may be more true that if they were male/female they would be mating; however, if a doe isn't interested they can be very vicious towards a buck. I agree with the others - to keep separate and spay both, then try to bond. Check with some exotic vets on spaying. Some are more experienced and will do the procedure on a younger rabbit.


----------



## RabbitsMaster (Dec 17, 2015)

Get them spayed


----------



## flemishwhite (Dec 19, 2015)

This was an eye opener for me. I have now two Flemish babies...3 months and 1 week old. Both females...or so the vet said. The quick conversation is that they both love each other very much. They like to eat, groom each other, sleep together. That they might someday fight seems inconceivable, yet the previous posts reveal this is a real possibility. Actually, one seems slightly more dominant over the other. Something to watch out for.

Since have our house to free run in (when we're here) and since they are both very well fed, hopefully they won't feel competitive between each other.


----------



## Preitler (Dec 20, 2015)

Well, that there is a noticeable hirachy is a good thing. My 3 does live in one pen, it is very clear what's everyones place, they reconcile their rare differences by humping, a little chasing, but most times just giving The Evil Eye is enough. It's a long time since I found a tuft of fur. If you notice some of thatt behaviour - let them sort it out. It's not very likely that they start a real fight, but it can happen. Mine groom each other, well, at least those next in hirachy. So it can work. But there are also 3 11wks old does and a 8 week litter of 8 kits in there, those 3 in puberty are my bigger worry.


----------

