# Sudden obsession with carrying things?



## Liung (Nov 11, 2014)

I don't know if this is a problem but it is a sudden change in behaviour, which should always be monitored carefully, and since I don't want to be running to the vet over something that seems pretty harmless I figured I'd ask public opinion.

If it's not a problem, it's **** cute and should absolutely be shared for collective cooing.

Rabbits are adorable, quirky little creatures... But Lahi, my little black Netherland Dwarf, is currently being a good deal quirkier than usual. He's taken to holding and carrying things around in his mouth. Not particularly eating them, just moving them around in his mouth and carrying them around.

I first noticed him doing this with hay--I've been doing some relationship therapy with him and his partner, Delilah, a Holland Lop, due to some trouble in paradise. I do this by putting them in a laundry basket filled with hay (it used to be towels but they kept biting and chewing them and I didn't want to risk them ingesting too many fibres) so I can supervise them as they cuddle for several hours. 




And I noticed that he would grab a piece of hay in his mouth, and make like he was eating it, except he would just run it through his mouth, moving it back and forth, never really eating it, usually dropping it. I considered that perhaps it's because, being an older bun (he's going to be 8 this January), maybe he's trying to soften it before eating? But he never ate it, and he's not off his food at all, and seems to still be eating his hay normally.

Then I noticed him doing it with paper. I find bunnies love to play with telephone books, and they've always got at least one to tear and destroy. And I would turn around and see him running around with a piece in his mouth. 

That's when I started to get a bit more concerned--his sister passed away a year ago from August, we believe from cancer (I never got her spayed), and shortly before that she'd taken to stuffing as much paper as she could in her mouth, refusing to put it down and carrying it around. 






It is slightly different, in that Picca would literally stuff multiple pages in her mouth, scrunching it up so it stuck out on either side of her face. Also, she would go to extensive lengths to not drop it, which ended up rather ridiculous when she tried to groom herself with a big thing of paper still in her mouth. Lahi is just grabbing the edge of a single piece, and seems willing to drop it if it's getting in his way. 

Actually he's been grabbing pages of my homework and making off with them, except printer paper is bigger than he is so it doesn't work well.

Now, however, he's been obsessed with carrying around a toilet paper roll (I stuff them with hay to make toys). It's pretty hilarious when he bumps into things with it, and it's pretty adorable that he's treating it like a small child with a favourite teddy. 






And he doesn't eat it much, just holds it in his mouth and moves it around, getting the edges thoroughly damp, and carries it around with him. He brings it up onto the couch, into the litter, into his box...

But he's never done this before the past two months, ever.

So: his appetite is fine, though he's been refusing to eat his greens unless I bother him into taking them from my hand, which I'm not too pleased about since he suffered from GI stasis last month. As far as I can tell he is still eating hay, and drinking water. His chewing sounds very loud and sharp? So maybe it's a tooth problem, though he got a tooth spur removed in January, and the vet's been checking his teeth regularly since. Very recently, his right eye started watering quite a lot, over the course of a week or so. Just as I'd decided to take him to the vet for it, it stopped.

Looking forward to hearing what you think!


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## Sophie's Humble Servant (Nov 11, 2014)

I always say go with your instincts. It sounds like you're concerned and it's always worrisome when they change their behaviour. Since we know rabbits can go downhill fast when they're sick, it might be best to make a vet appointment and get a thorough mouth exam done just to be sure. That's what I would do personally. Good luck, I hope he's ok and that it's just a cute little quirk he's picked up.


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## missyscove (Nov 11, 2014)

It sounds like nesting behavior but I've never heard of a male doing that so it makes me wonder if something hormonal is going on or perhaps it is common in males and I just haven't heard of it before. It's definitely something we see in pregnant and pseudo-pregnant female rabbits.


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## JBun (Nov 11, 2014)

Sometimes rabbits can just pick up quirky habits. But sudden changes of behavior can also occur when a rabbit is feeling unwell or discomfort from something, and would be a cause for concern. With your bun also having stopped eating his greens, it would make me concerned that there is a possible dental issue going on, and that this new odd behavior may be a bit like a toddler 'teething' due to mouth pain. A possible dental problem may not just have to do with molar spurs, but a rabbit can also have problems below the surface, such as elongated tooth roots or an infected tooth. And in this case you would need xrays done to discover if either of these is the problem. With your bun also recently having a sudden case of a runny eye, elongated roots may be even a greater possibility. If this is the case, it's mostly a case of managing it with regular burring of the teeth as well as pain medication. 

Due to his advanced age, sudden pickiness with his greens, sudden eye tearing, possibly the previous gi stasis episode being related, and this 'teething' behavior he seems to be doing now, I would suspect an elongated top incisor, the right one in particular since this was the eye that was tearing up. Of course this is just a guess and would take xrays to confirm if there is a problem. There are other possibilities such as a digestive issue, but with the symptoms you mention, dental seemed like a good possibility.
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?A=472
http://www.lagomorphs.com/dentalchallenges.pdf

It is possible that it is just behavioral, but with your bun being older especially, a sudden change of behavior like this can be a cause for concern as an older bun isn't as likely to develop a habit like this unless there may be some health problem associated with it.


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## Liung (Nov 16, 2014)

I just got back from a panicked run to the Animal Emergency Clinic.

At 8:10 PM today, I heard a troubling "KWAAKK" noise. It sounded like a harsher version of a cat with a hair ball, and a whole lot similar to a Daffy Duck quack. In other words, the sound of someone trying to expel something from their mouth.

I hurried over to the rabbit enclosure, to try and determine who had made it so I could examine them. Shortly I could see Lahi making vigorous motions with his mouth, and he began to make smaller "kwwwk... kwwwk..." noises. He continued to make tiny noises as I lifted him from his cage and brought him to a nearby table.

I could not get him to open his mouth for me to see if something was stuck, but he was drooling very excessively as he continued to worry his mouth, so I determined that he needed to see a vet immediately.

My regular vet down the road was closed for Sunday (and they close at 7PM on weekdays regardless), so I knew I would have to take him to the Emergency Clinic instead. Meanwhile, in the time it took me to grab his carrier off the top of a shelf, there was a large damp spot on my shirt from where Lahi's mouth was pressed against it as I carried him.

I was out the door and driving to the AEC by 8:20 PM, having alerted them I was coming.

On the way, he didn't seem to be making noises, and I tried to check his mouth again. He dragged his mouth across the side of my hand, covering it in saliva.

We arrived at the AEC 20-30 minutes later (it's two towns over but thankfully both it and my house are close to the highway).

Upon arriving I had to fill out a form first (I'd never been to the AEC though I knew of it and I've called them before for advice). During this, he began at one point to groom, and made another small noise, though it didn't sound too similar to the previous sounds. Also, his eye at this point was watering. 

We were then taken into a room where a technician took his vitals. The vet arrived to examine him at 9:05 PM. He had no difficulty breathing, he was making no noise, and his eye was no longer watering. After it was determined that there was nothing stuck in his mouth, we offered him some Timothy hay, and despite the stress he ate it, showing no difficulties chewing or swallowing.

However! The vet agreed that his chewing was making some alarming noises. More importantly, apparently I should have been visually checking his teeth on a regular basis:




I can guarantee that his teeth did not look like that the last time I saw them. However, I cannot say when that was. He had dental work done in January, so we can confidently say they were fine then. My vet has been periodically checking them since, but my best guess is they were last checked in May.

So $180 poorer for an emergency examination, Lahi apparently resolved whatever he was having problems with on his own. I've been instructed to keep an eye on him tonight, and make sure he eats.

In the meantime, that tooth examination suddenly got more urgent. 

As instructed, I've been keeping an eye on him since while he eats. He's currently asleep as indicated by his snoring. He is still making some "kwwwk" noises as he eats, but only occasionally and it's not bothering him any I think. Here's a video:
lahi-n-delilah.tumblr.com/post/102842024472/
You may have to really turn your sound up. He makes it once at the beginning and a few more times, once particularly loudly, around the one minute mark.

(The blog is still under construction no judging!)

For those who are curious, Lahi weighed in at 2.01 kg (which is 4.43 lbs... A little under what I would like. He lost weight from 5lbs during his antibiotic treatment in March and never got it back). The patient chart I got says:
On exam, T=38.3, PR=280, RR=40, NAF ears, eyes (not currently watering, and eyes not red or irritated), no more drooling, examined mouth and not able to see any ulcers or irritation, did notice that upper incisions are not completely even (ie right incision is longer than left), NAF chest auscultation, NAF abdominal palpitation. He is BAR and well hydrated, and is showing no signs of distress.

The T=38.3 is temperature in Celsius, PR=280 is heart rate in beats per min, I have no idea what RR=40, NAF, or BAR stands for.


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## whiskylollipop (Nov 17, 2014)

Gosh, that looks like a good chunk of his top teeth just got sliced off, I wonder how that could've happened! Did the vet file it down to make his bite even again? Poor Lahi, that must be so uncomfortable.


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## JBun (Nov 17, 2014)

I'm glad your bun is ok. It sounds like he may have had a choking episode, but managed to clear it himself. When you go to see your regular vet, it would be good to also have your buns lung sounds checked in case of possible aspiration of food and fluids, as well as possibly prescribing antibiotics if there is a concern of aspiration pneumonia developing. I'm sure it was quite the frightening experience. Hopefully it never happens again, but if it does there are some bunny heimlich instructions for emergency situations if there is no other choice in order to save your bun.
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/pet-rabbit-gagging-Rabbit.htm

The uneven tooth wear of the front incisors would be from whatever dental problem is affecting his bite and chewing action. So definitely a good idea to get those teeth checked asap. Best of luck at the vets. Please let us know how it goes.


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## Sophie's Humble Servant (Nov 17, 2014)

Oh my gosh, how scary! Hope he's ok!!


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## Liung (Nov 18, 2014)

Yup, this has probably been going for a while and I never noticed :/ I was watching him today as he did his mouthing thing with the hay, and I've come to the conclusion there's no way I could have noticed without physically peeling his lips back to take a look--he never shows enough of his teeth to really see them at all.

But it seems JBun hit the nail on the head with the earlier guess:


JBun said:


> I would suspect an elongated top incisor, the right one in particular since this was the eye that was tearing up.


Maybe the root is elongated too, but we can clearly see that externally at least the right incisor is longer. Sigh.

So I've been talking to my vet about an appointment. I'm wondering if I can get the $70 examination fee waived by going straight to procedures and treatments, like an x-ray since we know without a doubt he needs one... Since, yenno, already paid $180 at the AEC for an examination that accomplished next to nothing. (Sob)

Any suggestions for what else I should be requesting?

The AEC vet checked his breathing sounds and said he seems fine; she'd told me to watch for breathing problems that might indicate that he has fluid in his lungs, but said she didn't expect that he would, and would only expect that in choking cases where the animal came close to suffocating ("when their mouth turns blue" is the exact words she used. Because their fur is in the way of seeing if their face has gone blue?). Lahi, thank god, could still breathe the whole time.

In the meantime we'll comfort ourselves with pictures of Lahi being adorable, and Delilah being the hoggiest bedhog to ever hog.


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## Bucktooth (Nov 26, 2014)

RR means respiration rate, so he was taking 40 breathes per minute NAF means no abnormal findings (so his vitals were all normal) and BAR means bright/alert/responsive. Glad he was ok, that's really scary.


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## pani (Nov 26, 2014)

Delilah's never far from Lahi, keeping an eye on him. How sweet. 

It sounds scary, but I'm glad you know what the problem is now, so you can work towards getting it fixed. Get well soon Lahi!


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## Liung (Nov 26, 2014)

Then does PR mean pulse rate? I only know it was heartbeats per minute because I remember her measuring it with her watch and my dad (who was kind enough to drive me to the AEC so I could focus on keeping him calm) was totally shocked by the number (an exercising human is about 100 beats per minute, 280bpm would kill a human).

Delilah isn't so great at moral support, she's a hyperactive young'un and Lahi's a dignified elder. But she's trying her best getting her cuddle on. She tends to squish him and flop all over him and step on him in the process, but it's the thought that counts and he bears it with a patience that should rightly have him sainted.
.
Anyway I have a vet appointment on Friday, we'll be seeing the vet who does rabbit surgeries (I'm lucky enough that all three of the vets at the clinic can do rabbits, but only the one does the big stuff) and he'll be getting an x-ray. Should be interesting. 

I think it's both great and tragic how not bothered Lahi is by vets. The AEC vet was exclaiming about how well-behaved and calm he was. Getting something stuck up his butt? No problem. He's just been to the vets so much he's completely unflappable. The receptionists can all recognize him on sight and pamper him outrageously. Also I'm getting pity discounts. Q_Q

Please, please, please let this be the last health problem for this year.
..


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## doodlebugger (Dec 5, 2014)

Liung said:


> Then does PR mean pulse rate? I only know it was heartbeats per minute because I remember her measuring it with her watch and my dad (who was kind enough to drive me to the AEC so I could focus on keeping him calm) was totally shocked by the number (an exercising human is about 100 beats per minute, 280bpm would kill a human).
> 
> Delilah isn't so great at moral support, she's a hyperactive young'un and Lahi's a dignified elder. But she's trying her best getting her cuddle on. She tends to squish him and flop all over him and step on him in the process, but it's the thought that counts and he bears it with a patience that should rightly have him sainted.
> .
> ...



I feel your pain! We had a rabbit that had chronic health problems for like two years. Everyone at our vet's office knew him, and fought over who was going to hold him or snuggle him. We also got some pity discounts (which I love!!!) and our vet was so patient even after we would call sometimes three or four times a week. 

I hope this is the last health problem for a long time for your bunnies!


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