# Overgrown peg teeth?? Also overgrown incisors the "wrong" way



## jcottonl02 (Jun 17, 2010)

Benji has needed his teeth trimming about once every 2-3 months for the past year at least, if not longer; I can't quite remember. He is always brilliant at the vets, and it never seems to cause him any stress- he doesn't move at all when the vet trims the incisors; I don't even need to hold him tight (I do anyway, just in case- don't want him moving when that is in his mouth). He's got a vet appointment on Monday for his teeth trimming again. It looks kinda bad from these pictures but he eats pellets and everything I give him with great enthusiasm, and has absolutely no problems. Does this look like it has been left a little long? This is the latest it's left before trimming- I just don't like to take him toooo often because of the stress of the car etc.

Anyway, his incisors always overgrew the bottom teeth, however now it seems that the insicors are going BEHIND the bottom teeth. The bottom two teeth seem to be growing away from eachother at an angle. 












You can see the peg tooth there ^^^^^^^ 









And there ^^^^^^^^






Also (the pictures don't show this well) the teeth are starting to turn brownish? Along the ridges and the outsides.

The most disconcerting thing though, is that on one side his peg tooth seems to be overgrown, and brown! I wondered what it was at first, because it is not on the other side, but now I realise it must be an...overgrown (??) peg tooth?

Any help and input would be greatly appreciated. What could cause the peg tooth to become overgrown. Is that actually what has happened here? What could cause the incisors to overgrow behind the bottom teeth when it was the other way before? The way they were trimmed?

Any advice on the incisors, the peg tooth, and the tooth colouring (I guess this is tooth decay), also an diet alterations that might help, or any veterinary attention needed- anything at all that comes to mind.

Thank you

Jen


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## tonyshuman (Jun 17, 2010)

The peg teeth are also worn down by contact with the bottom teeth, so if they're not making contact, they too can overgrow. I think that the contact between teeth also helps them stay free of the brown stuff. My Muffin had it when I first got her, but that was because her teeth were of poor quality--all sorts of lines in them from being fed inconsistently. I am guessing that his teeth are doing that just because they are awkward in shape. The food and stuff they eat can act kinda like a toothbrush, scraping off decay stuff (at least this is my hypothesis).

As long as he has enough calcium in his diet (and I know he gets enough Vit D because you take him outside a lot), there's not much you can do other than have them clipped every so often. You could have them removed, but that is a pretty expensive, serious surgery. It is not a bad idea to think about though, because as he gets older, his chances of doing well in the surgery decline, and he may need them removed eventually anyway. At least think about it.


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## jcottonl02 (Jun 17, 2010)

Thank you Claire for replying.

Well that would make sense that his peg teeth are overgrown because the bottom teeth don't come into contact with them much. 

I am thinking about surgery- not now- but I'm thinking about when and if I might decide to do it. I don't know anything about the complications or risks etc. of having them removed, though, but have heard of reccurent abcesses from tooth surgery that can sometimes lead to no other option but a PTS? Which terrifies me. Is this true?

His teeth just seem to be getting worse and worse. They ARE the most bizarre shape. The bottom ones especially. When I compare them to Pippin's teeth. Pippin's teeth seem slim, together, pearly white etc. and Benji's are thick, clunky and odd-shaped, and not meeting at all. They have the exact same diet...so can it be to do with that? If Pippin's are, I'd go as far as to say pretty much perfect, could Benji's problems be to do with calcium? Does each rabbit's requirement differ?

Are there any specific foods that help 'scrape' away and clean the teeth that I could try?

Benji is 4 years old in July, so I guess you are right in that it is something I need to think about...pretty soon? What is the approximate age that surgery becomes more risky?

Thanks again for the help, Claire

Jen


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## tonyshuman (Jun 17, 2010)

Angieluv had a bunny whose teeth were removed but had recurrent abscesses. He was on long-term antibiotic therapy for quite a while, but did ok. I'm not sure about whether it's a good option at this point or not, sorry.

I think what's going on with Benji is genetic--most tooth issues are. Plus, from your avatar, it looks like Benji's nose might be a bit flatter, is that true?

I think surgery becomes more risky after 5-6 years.

Pinecones can be good for their teeth to clean them, although my guys aren't very interested in them. :dunno:


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## jcottonl02 (Jun 17, 2010)

I really hope it doesn't get to that point.....I don't really know much about this sort of stuff so hopefully someone can give me some advice. Do teeth like this normally decline to the point where surgery is needed? Or can they be maintained throughout the bun's life quite happily?

Yeah Benji definately has a much more round face than Pippin, with quite a round nose. I guess that might contribute to it?

Hmm I will definately look into the pinecones- I doubt he would be interested though. He doesn't like to chew much really.

I wish I knew more about this

Jen


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## Maureen Las (Jun 17, 2010)

My holland lop had overgrown peg teeth but he also had problems with molars and infection in his gums. 
The peg teeth initally grew ouy of my buns mouth like a handlebar mustache;
they do have to filed constantly if you keep the incisors. 

One option is to have the incisors removed, however, if you can get to a really rabbit savvy vet or animal dentist it is best to haveall the teeth x-rayed to see if you are dealing with a total mouth problem. 

Idid not have my rabbits incisors removed because his entire mouth was a problem and he had multiple molars removed.
his incisors needed constant trimming and never grew back the same way 

Clipping the teeth is not ideal because it can cause damage to the roots of the teeth and then abscesses can form. 
Filing is the way to go but the bun needs an experienced vet and would also need anesthesia .

Lottsa good luck to you ; I have been there and done that 

Chronic dental problems can be expensive but it is best to know exactly what you are dealing with.


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## jcottonl02 (Jun 18, 2010)

Thanks Angieluv.

I just want to say that I don't get my rabbit's teeth clipped- they are filed. Having heard of the risks of clipping, I stopped that about a year ago. BUT having said that, the vets do the filing without anasthesia. It's always seemed okay to me, although I know some vets do use anasthesia. Thing is- if you are getting your rabbits teeth filed ever 8 weeks....I would not be wanting to put them under an anasthetic 6 times a year!!!!!!!!:shock: That's crazy. Especially as Benji is getting older.
My vet is brilliant though- the teeth look perfect once he's finished and Benji is always so good. I'm concerned- should this actualy be done without anasthetic?

This is so annoying. I wish he didn't have this problem :/

Thank you for your advice . I'll try and get a better picture of this soon....hopefully with x-rays.

Sigh...

Jen


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## dixonsrabbitry1 (Jun 22, 2010)

See if you can get your vet to clip the bottom teeth down almost to the gum. And trim the upper ones back a bit. Sometimes this will correct them, and they may grow back normally. 

I have clipped rabbits teeth with a pair of side cutters before when I have had to do it. Not hard to do. Damage done to them is very rare. They grow back pretty fast. Not saying you should do that with your bunny though. Trick I learned from being around rabbit breeders.


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## tonyshuman (Jun 22, 2010)

Dixonsrabbitry, Angieluv once clipped her bunny's teeth in a way that damaged them, even though she had done it successfully before and is quite experienced in many areas of rabbit care. A chipped tooth can happen to anyone, and unless you're comfortable with a possible problem and possible emergency trip to the vet to get the chipped tooth corrected, I would recommend having the vet do it in the first place.


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## dixonsrabbitry1 (Jun 24, 2010)

*tonyshuman wrote: *


> Dixonsrabbitry, Angieluv once clipped her bunny's teeth in a way that damaged them, even though she had done it successfully before and is quite experienced in many areas of rabbit care. A chipped tooth can happen to anyone, and unless you're comfortable with a possible problem and possible emergency trip to the vet to get the chipped tooth corrected, I would recommend having the vet do it in the first place.


Sorry to hear she had that happen. Its actually quirte rare that it does happen. I never said do it yourself. You can learn to do it yourself though. i have trimmed plenty of teeth myself, and have never had the issue. I have seen other breeders and rabbit judges do it with seldom any problems. That doesn't mean everyone has to do it. 

Flipping is actually quite easy. You can do it without putting the bunny under. You can use the rabbit showmanship method just by putting the rabbit over on its back, and cradling it. real easy to do to, when the rabbit is used to being handled and worked with. 

As far as teeth correcting themselves, it can be done by trimming the upper teeth, and clipping the bottom ones down to the gum line. I have a friend that did this with a rabbit she took in. He had pulled his teeth on the wire. The bottom ones overlapped the top ones, like above. All she did was followed the rabbit judges advice when she took him in, by cutting the bottom ones down. Corrected the problem. His teeth overlap normal. he has gained a lot of weight and looks great. he has turned into an outstanding show rabbit. In my experience, using method like that will correct the problem 99% of the time. I only do it when they have pulled or broken a tooth. I don't deal with stuff that may be genetic.


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## Maureen Las (Jun 25, 2010)

I am aware that in the world of rabbit breeding and showing that clipping teeth is an acceptable practice and that there is a certain technique to clipping them 
Technically however, there is a lot that can go wrong with clipping .
I clipped my holland lops incisors only out of necessity in between visits to the animal dentist and the dentist warned me of the problems that could occur from this plus 
I had never been taught how to clip them.

One time I clippedone front incisor almost up to the gum; it did not cause permanent dmaage and did not damage the root however Iwas taking a bigrisk everytime I did it. 

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=472&S=5&SourceID=43

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/dental.html

http://www.mybunny.org/info/dental_problems.htm

http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00293.htm


Novet recommends clipping teeth ; filing or the use of a dremel is recommeded by a vet ; the risk of injuring the root or cause micro- fractures in the teeth are high from clipping 
In the situation where a person does not have a vet or dentist who can care for the rabbit's teeth at least get a person who is experienced in clipping teeth to guide you. 
I did clip my own rabbit's teeth but I would never advise another person to do it unless inextreme necesssity


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## jcottonl02 (Jun 30, 2010)

Right. Sorry I haven't posted back. We had an appointment last week for Ben's teeth but had to cancel and rebook for this week. So I have just come back from the vets now.

It was good news....well....better than I thought.

Ben (the vet) trimmed back the upper incisors more than the lower incisors, hoping that by keeping the uppers away from the lowers (ie. stopping the pressure pushing the lowers out) the lower incisors could start moving back into place, as they are jutting out quite far.

I am going to bring Benji to get his upper incisors trimmed once a month for the next 3 or 4 months and see if this makes an improvement to the lowers' position. 

If not, then we will discuss removing the incisors.

I am hoping this will work.

Jen


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## tamsin (Jun 30, 2010)

Sounds like a good plan to me  It would be an idea to keep an eye on the back teeth - just get your vet to check during the visit. If the front teeth overlap pulls the jaw out of position that could effect the wear on them.

In England, the standard way of dealing with front teeth is burring (filing) which is done without an anaesthetic. It's only when you get on to the back teeth an anaesthetic is usually performed.


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## jcottonl02 (Jun 30, 2010)

Oh Tamsin thank you so much for clearing that up for me!!!!!! I was beginning to doubt my vets, which is odd because I have SO much faith in them! That makes so much sense now. Yeah they file them like you said, and he doesn't have an anasthetic. 

I won't go into it because I'll get angry, but basically at another vets when this one was closed, and I really needed to go that day, the vet against my express wishes put Benji under to trim his incisors and charged me over 100pounds for it when I said more than twice DO NOT PUT HIM UNDER ANASTHETIC! I didn't even sign for it. jesus christ. I vowed never ever ever to go there again. And then i read in the paper they have lost people's pets and have had visits from RSPCA n stuff. I am SO glad I have never been there again and I will advise anyone else to avoid them.

The vet checks the back teeth every time which is really good. He checked them again today and they were absolutely fine, but I'll make sure to have him keep checking them especially while the incisors aren't meeting. THanks for the heads up on that.

Jen


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## jcottonl02 (Oct 15, 2010)

Just fyi- I have just come back from the vets after Benji's monthly incisor trim and it's definately improving!!! The vet seems to think it will only take one or two more trims to completely realign them!!!! I am so pleased!!! This is such great news.

I thought they looked better before I took him today. One side was still overgrown but half the tooth was meeting the top incisor (which wasn't overgrown) and the other side seemed completely met. So it was just one half of one tooth seemingly. 

Very happy! . This worked with Pippin when he was young and it seems to be working again with Benji. I will be so thankful.

Jen


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## Maureen Las (Oct 15, 2010)

The baby male chinchilla rabbit thatI rescued ( Bernie) had lower incisors growing over the upper incisors at 8 weeks old. The vet recommended euthanasia but I decided to wait with it.
I clipped the incisors myself becauseI felt that it was a temporary hopeless situation asI could not afford to go to the animal dentist in Madison for the duration of this rabbit's life ; this rabbit also had molars that were not aligned and were stunted in growth. 

I clipped the upper incisors about 3 times about every 2-3 weeks and (believe it or not ) I took a look at his teeth one day and could not believe that after a growth spurt that his teeth had self corrected and that his uppers were now in front of his lowers. 
he still seemed to have uneven front uppers soI attempted to provide him with anything that I thought he could wear his teeth down on.
I found an unfinished wooden box that I placed in his area and also bought those orange carrot rabbit wood sticks for him
He has managed to wear his incisors down well 

It might be worth it to try to find something safe that Benji would like to chew. His teeth may not be filed down enough where he can really use them now but after a few more filings he may be able toknaw on hard surfaces.
I wish that i could let my rabbits chew the woodwork in the house. it seems that all of them are so attracted to woodwork . Rabbits love wood that is anchored down and probably woodwork along the wall is just the right height for a rabbit to enjoy . 

Idon't have access to branches but that is another possibility after they have been baked. 

Bernie had 2 molars overgrow and I was able to detect it because he is so gentle that he allowed me to place my fingers in his mouth and feel his teeth. 
the new vet here was able to drill his molars down using a cat /dog dental drill .
Pipp suggested using extruded pellets ( they are harder) and also tough veggies like kale to keep the molars down. Since Bernie's molars are not aligned I don't know if that will help but I am trying it anyway.
I hope that Benji's teeth eventually grow correctly. 

dental issues are such a challenge.


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## jcottonl02 (Oct 16, 2010)

Wow that's so great for Bernie! Good for you for persevering.

Oh how I wish Benji would chew. Pippin had this slight problem like I said, and it was "fixed" with the regular clipping for a few months, and he now has perrrfecctt teeth. But he chews everything he can, and eat tonnes and tonnes of hay. This is just Pippin all over:







Lol.

Benji does eat hay but just not loads of it. They have blocks of wood to knaw on and while Pippin loves his, Benji just isn't interested in it, bless his heart. I think it might be an idea to attach it to the side of the hutch or something, because you are right- they seem to love chewing at head height on things that are attached.

Wow that is interesting! They actually love kale, and get it regularly. And yes...branches is also a great idea.

I am just sooo hoping this will work.

THanks for the advice 

Jen


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## the fluffies (Jan 14, 2011)

Hi! 
I have a rabbit who loss one of his lower incisors a few weeks ago (due to cage biting)

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=62845&forum_id=16 

His upper incisors is getting longer. I found a lump under his jaw a few days ago, but it seems like the lump is getting smaller. 

I found a vet who can performs the teeth extraction, but since the teeth still look healthy, i try to forget the idea to extract the teeth. 

Maybe i could just send Alfie to teeth trimming first, and see if he can worn down his teeth after we trimmed the teeth shorter.

But my problem is, i couldn't find a vet who can filing/burring the teeth. In Malaysia, the vets are practising teeth clipping. :nerves1


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## Nancy McClelland (Jan 14, 2011)

Stewart had problems with his teeth--hereditary from his father--and we had to get his teeth trimmed about every other month. Sometimes we were able to go as long as 4 months, so, we kept a close eye on them.


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## Maureen Las (Jan 14, 2011)

My rabbit had a lot of molars removed but not the incisors and peg teeth although they often needed to be filed down.

There are a few members here who have rabbits who have done really well with having their incisors and peg teeth removed. 

Rabbits pick up their food with their incisors and move them back to the molars to chew so some food needs to be cut in smaller pieces but usually rabbits do really well after incisor removal 

I wonder ifBenji's molars are abnormal also. Has his whole mouth been x-ryed?


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