# What could it be?



## BlueCamasRabbitry (Oct 19, 2010)

This morning when I went out to feed, I noticed some dried something around the nostrils of my REW buck. I took him out of his cage, checked his paws, his nose. There was no matted fur, no discharge, or anything, so I just took a baby wipe and wiped up the dried...whatever it was. 

So, I'm curious...what could it be? He is perfectly fine other than digging all the food out of his food dish (which is quite odd, since usually he dives into his pellets), but he is still eating greens, his hay, and some pellets. There is NO discharge at all coming from his nose. No sneezing, wheezing, etc. No signs of anything that could be wrong. And this just appeared this morning. 

He's a little underweight, I wonder if that could have anything to do with it? We've been upping his pellets, but this morning he started digging them out. We kept giving him more, so it's not like we're not offering him more. And he's nibbling hay, and eating grass. 

Any ideas?






I gave him 250mg of Vit. C in his water. When I first started syringing it into his dish, he put the tip in his mouth and let me give him some that way. I've had lots of success with Vit C as a method for helping illness (it saved the life of a doe that should have died... so yea...) 

Anyway..I'm confuzzled. We are leaving on Thursday to go to Oregon for a rabbit show (Saturday). I'll be watching him closely, and taking Vit C with me as well. He's supposed to be shown on Sat. Other than the strange green dried stuff around his nose, and the digging pellets out of his dish, he looks fine.





I just went out to check on him (3:30 pm Pacific ST) and the dried stuff around his nose it creamy coloured. This isn't new stuff, it's the stuff I couldn't get off this morning. It also was on his chin a little bit, and his top lips. I offered him more pellets, but he tossed his dish and emptied it. :rollseyes:?

Emily


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## tamsin (Oct 19, 2010)

Rabbits are very clean so it's possible he has a repository infection and is just usually cleaning up the discharge before you see it. Another possibility would be an abscess somewhere that's discharging down his nose. One of my buns had one in his cheek that discharged via his nostril.

Might be worth getting a once over at the vet particularly if he's a bit underweight despite the extra pellets.


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## Sweetie (Oct 19, 2010)

Just texted Randy so he should see this. It sounds to me like your bunny may be getting the snuffles. I would continue with the Vit C until you hear from Randy.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Oct 19, 2010)

I just started upping his pellets today though.  I was feeding him 2 oz of pellets a day, plus unlimited hay, and we noticed he was getting thin. He's a small boy, purebred Mini Rex, but veryyy tiny. His last owner gave him a cup of pellets and he never got chubby, so for him 2 oz is nothing, and that's why he's underweight. 

I really hope it's not snuffles or pasturella, or any abscess or anything. 

Like I mentioned, he's been acting fine, and the dried stuff around his nose is the first I've seen of anything. We were questioning if it might be allergies. We just got him in August, so we don't know if he might be allergic to something floating around in the air, since it's now fall here, and getting colder. 

Emily

ETA: Spelling.


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## ladysown (Oct 19, 2010)

Wouldn't jump the gun to snuffles yet.. think more along the lines of pellet dust (especially if he's been digging in the pellets), dusty room, buck being a silly lad, 

If all the feet are clean, you aren't seeing snot, or hearing tons of sneezing, I wouldn't be thinking snuffles at this point.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Oct 19, 2010)

Ladysown, that's what I was thinking. 
There aren't really any symptoms of snuffles, so that's why I'm curious as to what it could be. 

Hopefully he will eat his pellets tonight when I feed, and stop digging in them.  

Emily


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Oct 20, 2010)

This evening when I fed, I switched his ceramic crock to an EZ Crock. He was a little confused at why it was no longer moving, hah, but after he failed to dig out his pellets, he quickly went to work eating them.  

We looked him over again, and there is still no discharge, matted fur, etc. 

Emily


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## tonyshuman (Oct 21, 2010)

The white mucus is indicative of an upper respiratory infection. However, if you only saw it on one day and it seems to be gone for good, then he should be fine. Sometimes they can get over these things without help, although it is rare.


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## Flash Gordon (Oct 22, 2010)

im hopin u decided against traveling with him.cuz if his immune system is slightly off the stress from traveling might make him have probs again..hopefully the vit c gave him a boost.,


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Oct 27, 2010)

I did take him to the show with me. He was perfectly fine, as I discovered that he was being bitten by his neighbor, and that was what caused the problems. The judge did comment on his poor body condition, but we have been upping his feed, giving him all the food he can eat. However... 

This morning he had some more "pellet dust" around his nose. There is no discharge, his breathing sounds fine, and there is no matted fur. He's still skinny, despite having unlimited pellets & hay. He's not eating very much. :/ I offered him some fresh grass, as well as some grass I was drying. He only nibbled it. 

I gave him another 250mg of Vit. C in his water. He is drinking normally, his poops look fine. He's just not eating very much, putting weight on. I know he probably won't put it on very quickly, but I just don't understand why he's not eating all what's being offered to him. He seems to be eating anywhere from less than half of his food to about half, which is about 1/3 cup total. He has unlimited pellets though. We have a show this weekend, he's entered, but I will not be taking him with me. 

Is a shot of Penicillin in order? I have Penicillin G Procaine. It expired in 8/2010, but I've only used it once, and it's been in the fridge since I got it. Is it still good? I'd hate to go out and buy another bottle, but if I must, then I can; I have to run to the feed store to get syringes/needles anyhow. What gauge should I get? I'd like to get a couple - some for now, and some other for back up. Is there one gauge that works for all types of meds? 

I have BeneBac as well, so can give that to him if he needs the Penicillin. I am going to be making up a much better first aid kit in the coming weeks, after I get some more money. I have some good things now, but need some more. 

Any ideas? There's just so many illnesses that have loss of appetite as their symptoms... :/ 

Emily


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## tonyshuman (Oct 27, 2010)

I would try a shot of the Pen G to see if it improves. It is not very expired, so it should be ok. I don't know about the needle gauge, sorry.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Oct 27, 2010)

Claire, alright. As soon as I find out what gauge, I might give it a try...

I was told it sounds the most like worms, so I will be picking up some dewormer either tomorrow or Friday (depends on when I can get out to get it) and then giving it to Rowdy then, but to everyone else after the Saturday show. 

Emily


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## Maureen Las (Oct 27, 2010)

Ideally this rabbit should be taken to a vet. Just reading this thread indicates that there is something wrong with him..


Has he been dewormed???

if you absolutely cannot take him to a vet then get a 

23 gauge (or less) needle to draw it up and 25 gauge to inject , however, I would not give the Pen procaine G just one time but get bicillin ( Dura pen , Duopen , twin pen etc) from a farm store and start him on it every other day for at least several weeks. Bicillin is a combo of Procaine G penicillin and benzathine G penicillin and is sold in the refrigerated section for cattle. Just procaine G would need to be be given daily 

1 dose of Pen g will not do more than cause his body to build up resistance to it. 

In this threadI describe howI give bicillin 

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=48224&forum_id=16&highlight=bicillin+injection

I am not a vet but this is the method that I learned from Randy (ra7751)


here is our library version from Marcy Moore

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=57560&forum_id=25&highlight=bicillin+marcy+moore


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## Maureen Las (Oct 27, 2010)

Sorry !

I did not read the part of your thread in which you stated that you were going to deworm him;I would go ahead and do that first


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## Flash Gordon (Oct 27, 2010)

we had a prob with the gauge needle we were using with the PenG ,,it was so thick that it wouldnt push out of the needle ..and after squeezing it hard it would just pop the end off of the syringe..we had to get a bigger gauge i just cant remember the size right now..but ill ask my boyfriend when he gets home..hell remember....i agree dont use antibiotics unless they are needed ..and do a full course of em..has this bun ever been wormed before?.cuz if hes not eating well now and he has a prob with the ivermectin wormer he will def be off his feed...i try and use the wormer as a preventative so i give it to my buns when they are healthy ..and i did notice a few act strange for a day or two..ive never given to a bun that wasnt feeling well already.i know its hardcore stuff...also they say to try and mix up the tube cuz its not a consistent formula since its given to other animals alot bigger and they take the whole tube..u prob already know all this stuff..if u do just ignore me..i hope ur bun gets well soon.


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## Maureen Las (Oct 28, 2010)

*Flash Gordon wrote: *


> we had a prob with the gauge needle we were using with the PenG ,,it was so thick that it wouldnt push out of the needle ..and after squeezing it hard it would just pop the end off of the syringe..we had to get a bigger gauge i just cant remember the size right now..but ill ask my boyfriend when he gets home..hell remember....i agree dont use antibiotics unless they are needed ..and do a full course of em..has this bun ever been wormed before?.cuz if hes not eating well now and he has a prob with the ivermectin wormer he will def be off his feed...i try and use the wormer as a preventative so i give it to my buns when they are healthy ..and i did notice a few act strange for a day or two..ive never given to a bun that wasnt feeling well already.i know its hardcore stuff...also they say to try and mix up the tube cuz its not a consistent formula since its given to other animals alot bigger and they take the whole tube..u prob already know all this stuff..if u do just ignore me..i hope ur bun gets well soon.


this is good info, Flash Gordon, becauseI have never dewormed my ownrabbits The ivermectin has to be carefully dosed because it it packaged and sold for large animals. 

I believe that the best advice is to take this rabbit to a vet to actually dagnose the probem first before treating anything


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## Flash Gordon (Oct 28, 2010)

*angieluv wrote*


> I believe that the best advice is to take this rabbit to a vet to actually dagnose the probem first before treating anything


i totally agree......but for some people this doesnt happen for one reason or another.......before the internet can u imagine the freaky home remedies that some people have tried ...well Aunt Mabel sez to keep from making younguns a rubberband works mighty fine."..:shock2:




i gotta get to bed ...u guys are a bad influence..hehe


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Oct 28, 2010)

I bought some dewormer today and gave it to him. I bought Safeguard, the paste kind. Dose is just a pea size every other day for 7 doses. 

He ate all of his pellets from last night, which was probably about 1/3 cup, in one feeding. He seems to be getting an appetite back.  His body condition is already improving, just from what I can tell; it's slight, but improving. 

I looked at his poohs, but couldn't really tell if there were any worms in them... :/ He has been on fresh grass lately, so worms are definitely possible. If he hasn't improved more over the weekend with appetite, and on the dewormer, I will get him to a vet. 

Emily


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Oct 30, 2010)

I'm off to the farmstore in a few hours to get some Bicillin, and some needles/syringes. 

I will probably have some questions about the dosing when I get back - as far as how much bicillin to put into the syringe & how much to dilute it, etc. 

I did read the link you provided Angieluv, but still confused on the correct dosage for a rabbit. He's about 2lbs. 

Emily


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Oct 30, 2010)

Okay, so I was only able to get gauges in three sizes: 22, 18, and 20. The guy at the feedstore said 18 would work...is this correct? They didn't have many sizes to choose from. :/ 

22 gauge was specifcally for small animals, so the sign said. 
I got: 
20 g X 1/2"
18 g x 3/4"
and 
22 g x 3/4" 
All specifcally for SQ injections. But, silly me forgot to get syringes, so I'm off to the pharmacy to get some insulin syringes & see if they also have raspberry leaves.  

Emily


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## Maureen Las (Oct 30, 2010)

The larger the number the smaller the diameter of the needle so if you have 22 g it is bigger than ideal but you probably can do it ; 3/4 inch is a long needle for a sub q but once again it is possible if you have done sq injections before. 

"Small" in a feed store is probably for goats and calves etc

if you get the bicillin this is the dosing (remember you are working here with units per ml )

you can dose specifically as cited in medi-rabbit 

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm

47,000- 84,000 u per kg (a kg. = (2.2lbs)

Ialways dosed somewhere in the middle



or more generically as described in the Marcy Moore article 

http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~jwmoore/bicillin/bicillin.htm

she is talking about abscesses but it doesn't really matter ..


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Oct 30, 2010)

Alright, thanks.  
I wasn't able to get syringes today... The pharmacy used to give out insulin syringes for free, but now if you don't have a vial of insulin or a prescription, they make you pay $40 for a huuuuge box. Um, no thanks. 

So, I'll run to the feed store tomorrow and get some. 

I'd really like to know what he has exactly... Ugh. I gave him some pineapple, someone at the feedstore suggested it was GI, but it's definitely not... lol. At least he ate the pineapple, though. I made him some "cookies" last night, and he ate one then; hasn't eaten this mornings' yet. 

ETA: The Bicillin is at 300,000 units per ML, so, if I'm correct, wouldn't the correct dosage be about 1/4 mL in order to get the proper dose? 

Emily


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## Maureen Las (Oct 30, 2010)

What is his weight? 

Ihave never given bicillin unless it was diluted with lactated ringer solution or sterile saline ; this prevents the problem of it clogging the needle because it thins it out.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Oct 31, 2010)

He's approximately 2 pounds.

Emily


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## Maureen Las (Oct 31, 2010)

yes 0.25 ml would be the higher end of the dosing but fine


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 13, 2010)

Hey guys. 
Rowdy is showing some symptoms of illness again.  
His (excuse the language) anus is red/& inflamed, and his appetite is decreasing again. 

I have syringes (both 3 ml, and 1 ml) and also picked up some Sulmet, which is an antibiotic that goes in the water. Starting him on that tonight, and beginning the Sub Q injections tomorrow...but I have a few questions: 

Should I give him the shot every other day?
Can I use the same needle for withdrawing each time, or does it have to be a clean one? 
I have the gauges 18, 20 and 22 ~~ Which is best for Sub Q injections? 
Which is best for withdrawing from the vial? 
Will water work as a supplement for saline solution, in order to prevent abcesses? 

ETA: Some of the syringes I bought (the 1ml) have 30 gauge needle attached - would these also work for giving injections? 

Thanks,
Emily


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## Maureen Las (Nov 14, 2010)

Hi 

What is with the sore anus ? 
this sounds like a totally different problem than what you were describing before.???

You can not use tap or bottled water to mix with the bicillin because everything that is injected under the skin HAS to be sterile and ordinary tap water is not sterile.I have never given bicillin without diluting it soI really cannot tell you how to do it. I know that some people give it without diluting it ; it is more difficult and there is the chance of sterile abscesses. 

I think that you may have issues drawing it into a 1 cc syringe because it is going to be too thick to go in 

I used a 3 cc syringe and you will need to remember that 0.25 ml is not very much and be very careful with the amount 

You can with draw the bicillin out with any of the needles that you bought but the 22 gauge is the best of all of them to give it because it is the smallest.diameter. even then you will need to watch and see if the hole made by the needle causes any of the bicillin to leak out on your rabbit and be sure to wipe it off as it is fatal if ingested 

I used a 25 which is way smaller .; a 30 probably is too small and you most likely won't be able to get the med out. 

do some test runs before even if you have to waste some of the medication to see which needle works the best 

Read all the infoI posted previously 

I am not a vet; I am not a vet tech nor doI have any degree in animal science. I learned this technique from another mod on this forum ; I am not responsible for any mishap that should or could occur with your bun asI am not a professional but just trying to assist you the best that I can. 

I ordered sterilewater off the internet to mix with the biciliin to use on my rabbit. I also ordered syringes and needles from the same place 

http://www.eastcoastmedicalsupply.com/sterilewaterforinjectionusp-3bottles.aspx

Idid not use bacteriostatic water but sterile water. 



pm for any other questions butI won't be available tomorrow until afternoon. 

probably can't use the same needle to with draw as it will plug with dried medication.


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## Maureen Las (Nov 14, 2010)

Missed a few questions 
the injections are every other day 

also if you did get the diluent you may be able to use the 30 gauge needle with 1ml syringe..not sure.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 14, 2010)

I have 3ml, is ml the same as cc? 

I'm not sure what is wrong with his area... that's why I'm confused as it does sound like a completely new thing. :/ 

Alright - so where can I get sterile saline solution? 

Emily


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## Maureen Las (Nov 14, 2010)

Maybe you should take him to the vet and have his butt looked at ..bicillin is not used for everything but would have been good for respiratory 


here is the link to the medical supply house 

http://www.eastcoastmedicalsupply.com/sterilewaterforinjectionusp-3bottles.aspx

1ml=1cc


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## Maureen Las (Nov 14, 2010)

accidentally found this on medirabbit


http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Injection/Extracting_medication.pdf


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 14, 2010)

Thanks Angie. 
I'm debating taking him or not...the rabbit savvy vet charges $45 alone, and I just don't have enough money in my rabbit fund to cover anything more than that. I'm afraid they'll just tell me to treat it with bicillin, and then I'll have wasted $45+. 

I am keeping him on Sulmet & 250mg of Vit C for another 2 days, and if he hasn't improved on that alone, I will further decide upon taking him to the vet.  

Usually the bunnies can pay for themselves, but I haven't had much luck with rehoming, so my funds are decreasing rapidly. I've spent about $40 alone on needles, syringes, & penicillin, wormer & sulmet. 

Emily


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## Maureen Las (Nov 15, 2010)

but the sore butt seems so strange..really don't know 

maybe had something to do with the dewormer??? 

can you post a photo of his sore butt; it won't be considered obscene here just normal


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 15, 2010)

It is strange...His poohs look completely normal too. :/ 
It could have had something to do with the dewormer. 
I will attempt a picture - it might be difficult to get, but I will definitely try. 

Emily


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 17, 2010)

Here are some pictures of Rowdy's sore bum. I was told it could be hutch burn - what would be best for treating hutch burn? 

This morning when we fed, he still had quite a lot of pellets left from last night. He's still on 250 mg of Vit C & the Sulmet, but I'm not sure if it's working or not. :/ 

















And some pictures of his nose/mouth. There isn't any discharge, but just a little bit of crusty stuff above his right nostril...Looks like pellet dust...? 











ETA: I weighed him when these pictures were taken (Monday) and he was 3 lbs, about 1 oz. The last time I weighed him (about 1 1/2 to two weeks ago) he was 3lbs. As you can see, there isn't any significant weight gain, nor is there any loss...He's just not in good flesh condition. I can feel his spine, and feel his ribs when I press down just a bit.

Emily


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## Maureen Las (Nov 17, 2010)

I don't know if that is urine scald/ hutch burn :?and if it is why would it suddenly develop ? Urine scald is the symptom of an underlying condition 

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/urinary.html

I think that you could safely apply some bag balm or even a little neosporin to that poor sore butt but it is time for you and him to go to a vet because we are in over our heads here. 


If he had urine scald he would have a wet behind and I don't see that in the pic ..looks like a sore butt 

I don't know what the effects of the Vitamin C is doing to his body . I would stop it. 

Syphllis also causes sores on the butt 

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=15018&forum_id=10


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 18, 2010)

I haven't been giving him any Vit C for a few days...
I will look into taking him to the vet, but it all depends on if I can afford it or not.  
I will put some neosporin on his bottom, though. 

He is still on the antibiotic, Sulmet...should I give him some probiotics along with it? 

Emily


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## Maureen Las (Nov 18, 2010)

yes a probiotic is a good idea


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 19, 2010)

I checked his bottom this morning and now it's completely back to it's normal colour. 

He was kinda messy though, something going up his back, but his doesn't have diarrhea. I stopped Vit C., and haven't added another dose of sulmet to his water for the past two days... Should I give another dose? 

I added oats to his feed last night, and he ate up over half of his food. Put more oats in this morning and he was chowing down as well. I will continue to give him oats in his feed, along with the blackoil sunflower seeds, until he continues to put on weight. 

Emily


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## Maureen Las (Nov 19, 2010)

just be careful that you don't give him to much carbs ... a small amount of oats and sunflower seeds will not mess up his GI and maybe help put on weight but too much at once will disrupt his digestive tract.


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## Debacus (Nov 19, 2010)

What about vents disease?


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## Maureen Las (Nov 19, 2010)

I mentioned vent disease( syphyllis)as a possibility also .......
the sores can come and go


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 19, 2010)

I was thinking of the possibility of Vent Disease as well... I actually cleaned out his vents tonight, and they weren't bad at all. :/ 

His bum was a bit red & like...pulsing? When I checked, but I'm beginning to think he's getting himself excited? I did put some neosporin on it though. 

Emily


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## tonyshuman (Nov 20, 2010)

Vent disease is what I thought. It sounds like his bum is very painful. I would do the bicillin treatment as that can cure vent disease.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 20, 2010)

^^Yup, we've got him inside right now. His bum looked much more sore today. Megan (Shaded-Night) checked him and said he definitely needed to get out of the rabbitry. 

I'll be starting treatment of bicillin tomorrow. I just want to know if saline solution is ABSOLUTELY necessary for giving sub-Q injections as I was told I can only get it from a veterinarian? Is that so? I could have sworn it's available elsewhere. 

Should I continue Sulmet while he's on Bicillin? He only gets one more dose anyhow...:/ 

I am going to be sanitizing EVERYTHING he's touched in my rabbitry over the next 2 days (in freezing temps, yay! :/) to be on the safe side. 
Will have to start treatments on my doe as well, most likely, as he bred with her, although she did not take. :/ 

Emily


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## Maureen Las (Nov 21, 2010)

bicillin is not the treatment for vent disease and the injections areonce a week for 3 week using benzathine penicillin. I do not know the dosage 

The instructions I gave you before were for respiratory problems 
This rabbit needs to go the vet ; too many unknowns to treat yourself. 

I gave you a link earlier with a company in whichI sent for and received sterile water in 20 ml vials ; I used sterile water rather than lactated ringers 

I do not recommend self treatment in situations like this . 

You don't know what is wrong?:?


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## Maureen Las (Nov 21, 2010)

*tonyshuman wrote: *


> Vent disease is what I thought. It sounds like his bum is very painful. I would do the bicillin treatment as that can cure vent disease.



Just read this : I didn't know this 
sorry :confused2:


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 21, 2010)

I have been told otherwise, actually.  Bicillin does indeed treat vent disease. 

I can't purchase saline solution online. It will take way too long to get here. 

No...we're not 100% sure what is wrong. Either way, he has something that is connected to a respiratory problem, as he has dried snot around his nose. There isn't any discharge or matted paws, it's just a bit. Upon doing some reading, snot can be connected to vent disease.  

Emily


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 21, 2010)

*angieluv wrote: *


> I gave you a link earlier with a company in whichI sent for and received sterile water in 20 ml vials ; I used sterile water rather than lactated ringers



^^But where canI get either of these items w/o paying an arm & a leg for shipping & handling online? I've already spent close to $60 on this buck. At this point, I'm beginning to get extremely frustrated. :X

I can't treat him until I know where to get this...Is lactacted ringer solution available at pharmacies? What is sterile water? I asked about using plain water earlier - so couldn't I just boil water and it would be sterile? 

Emily


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## Maureen Las (Nov 21, 2010)

you cannot buy sterile diluents except online and/or from a vet or Dr's office

maybe a vet would let you buy a bag of lactated ringers if you explained the situation

any vet would have it 

You don't have to dilute the penicillin but it is easier to give and prevents sterile abscesses (not that he necessarily will get them) .You can give the injections without it 

I don't know how to dose bicillin specifically for vent disease butIam fairly sure that if you had the plain benzathine penicillin that you would be giving only 1 injection each week for 3 weeks which would be way easier than every other day. 

Claire will be back tonight or tomorrow ; maybe she knows how to dose for vent disease with bicillin....maybe you already got it from someone??


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 21, 2010)

^^That's what I was thinking. I will go ahead and call around tomorrow and see if I can get some for relatively cheap. I would rather dilute the bicillin than run the risk of him getting an abscess. 

Yes, I do believe the correct dosage is once a week for 3 weeks. 

I was thinking the dosage would be 0.25 ml, right? Once a week? He's closer to 3 lbs, so that'd be about in the middle. 

Emily


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## Maureen Las (Nov 21, 2010)

That is what I don't know 

the once a week dosage dosing might be higher ( I don't know ). remember that half of that 0.25 ml is procaine penicilin not benzathine and procaine is short acting . 

If you can wait a day for Claire....

let me keep looking around for this


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## Maureen Las (Nov 21, 2010)

I just found another article whre procaine penicllin was used daily for 5 days 

Iam going to pm Claire


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## tonyshuman (Nov 22, 2010)

I don't know the dosing. Bicillin contains benzathine penicillin G so it will treat it. I know Peg (tinysmom) has used distilled water to dilute bicillin before when saline was unavailable and Pam (pamnock) said it was ok. However, I would use that as a very last resort.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 22, 2010)

Hmmm.... Okay, so we're still lost on how often to give it? But still set that the dose is 0.25ml? 

I have distilled water, and will probably have to use that, as it is snowing here & the roads are bad and my mom isn't letting me drive in these conditions. 

Emily


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## Maureen Las (Nov 22, 2010)

I have not given up on this; I have been doing searches and am finding people who have used it , however, I don't know if these people are reliable sources 

This woman is an ARBAmemberandcould be credible but I don't know ; she is breeder of mini-rex rabbits 



http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080814183416AA7bDgb


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## tonyshuman (Nov 22, 2010)

Have you PM'd Naturestee and/or Peg and/or Pam?


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## Maureen Las (Nov 22, 2010)

I pm'd Angela woth no response yet butI am now going to pm both Peg and Pam


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 23, 2010)

The book ARBA's "Official Guide to Raising Better Rabbits & Cavies" says to give a shot of Pen G for 3 days..., once daily. I'm guessing this is the correct dose, but maybe I should bump it up to 4 or 5 days? 

I think the breeder who answered the yahoo question could be credible. It sounds similar to what is in the Guide. 

Emily


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## Maureen Las (Nov 23, 2010)

Ireceived a reply from Pam Nock who is a prominent ARBA judge and moderator on this forum 

Shes say that0.1mlper lb of body weight given once a week SQ X 3 weeks is frequently used 

different folks use it diferently 

I have heard of benzathine penicillin injections ( not with procaine) being used for vent disease 1 injection a week for 3 weeks. 

Actually I think vets around here would give 1 injection a week 
of benzathine
You have a lot to choose from here and we are all learning from it.

You can work out the differences in the math/dosageI just don't have time today.


Does the ARBA book talk specifically about biciilin or just use the word penicillin. ?


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 23, 2010)

The ARBA book talked about just Pen G.  

Since I've heard 1 injection once a week x 3, then I'll go with that.  Should he be fine enough to move back outside? And should I treat the doe he "bred" with (I use bred in quotations because I'm not certain he actually got in her...etc.) even though she hasn't shown signs yet? 

So wow...uhm 0.1 ml per body weight huh? That'll be quie difficult to measure. How much should I dilute the Bicillin with the distilled water? I'm think maybe 0.2 ml with the 0.3 ml of Bicillin? Should I be able to properly give it with a 1 cc syringe if I dilute it? 

ETA: How often should I give him the probiotic? I have Bene-Bac. Should I give him half a little tube with each shot or....? 

Emily


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 23, 2010)

I was going to give him his first Sub-Q injection tonight, but discovered that we don't have distilled water afterall...  So, I'm going to just call some vets tomorrow and hope they will sell me some saline solution.  

I was told that distilled water stings, so I'm just going to splurge for the saline instead. 

Emily


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## Maureen Las (Nov 23, 2010)

Technically you should never put anything in the body under the skin that is not sterile 

I understand why a person may use distilled water ( in desperation) because the antibiotic itself may prevent an infection under the skin but it would still bother me 

you can give the injections without diluting it but play around with the syringes and needles ahead of time to see what works.; if you cannot get lactated ringers solution or sterile saline)


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 24, 2010)

*angieluv wrote: *


> Technically you should never put anything in the body under the skin that is not sterile
> 
> I understand why a person may use distilled water ( in desperation) because the antibiotic itself may prevent an infection under the skin but it would still bother me
> 
> you can give the injections without diluting it but play around with the syringes and needles ahead of time to see what works.; if you cannot get lactated ringers solution or sterile saline)



Mkay.  

As for the probiotics, how often should I give those? 

Emily


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## Maureen Las (Nov 25, 2010)

do you have benebac?
You can give a dose every few days


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 26, 2010)

Yes, I mentioned above that I do.  

I tried giving him his first injection yesterday, had no problems with flow in any of the needles or syringe, but I could not stick him with the needle properly. I tried a couple times, but I couldn't get it in far enough, so I just gave up.  I was frustrated, but I'll just have to get my mom's boyfriend to do it. 

I think a little got in, but definitely not all 0.3 mls, that's for sure. 

Emily


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## Maureen Las (Nov 26, 2010)

If you got it on his fur you have to wash it off right away; if he grooms himself and ingests it is just like giving oral penicillin which is lethal


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 26, 2010)

Yes, I know.  I washed it off. 

Emily


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 26, 2010)

We succeded in giving his first shot to him.  He was great. He didn't much like me trying to get some Bene Bac in his mouth, but I managed to get a bit, and I also put another little bit on his food. 

Hopefully we'll start seeing some improvements with him in the next couple days!  Emily


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## tonyshuman (Nov 29, 2010)

Glad you were able to get his meds started. I too am uncomfortable with the idea of using distilled water but it would work in a pinch.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Nov 30, 2010)

So far there isn't an abscess at the injection site. I forgot to give him his Bene Bac for a few days, but gave him another dose yesterday. 

When do you guys think it'd be safe to put him back in the rabbitry? 

He's putting on so much weight already. We have to fill his food dish like 3 times a day to keep up with how much he's eating.  

Dallas, our Opal MR buck, was sneezing this morning, so I gave him his first dose of Sulmet & his first dose of Vit C (which I'll only give 3 doses) and if he's not improved by Friday, I'll start him on Bicillin as well. He still has his appetite though, and is putting weight on. I think it could be a URI, something of the sorts. He was sneezing, but there was just a tiny bit of snot. No matted front paws, and the snot was clear-ish. Hopefully we won't have to bring him in, as I don't have any other cages to do so...:/ 

Emily


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