# Blue Eyed - Blue Flemish!



## BlueGiants (Apr 14, 2010)

I have a litter of5 Blue Flemish that arealmost 4weeks old. Eye's open, healthy and sweet! They are out of a Blue/Blue breeding. 

The Doe, Elphaba, is out of my Blue buck(strict Blue/blackbreedings at least 11 generations back) and another breeders doe (straight blue/black breedings at least 7 generations on her side). She was bred to my blue buck (again, pure Blue/Black breedings at least 11 generations). 4 of the babies have "normal colored eyes... a soft blue/gray color. But one of the babies has the BLUEST eyes I've ever seen on a rabbit! (And on top of that, she is the SWEETEST girl, even gives KISSES! So pretty!)

Normal Eye Color:






Blue Eyed Baby:










Now, I am keenly aware that the standard for this variety does not allow eyes this color (and if they do not darken up, it will be a DQ on the show table...) but I'm just wondering... in the past it's been discussed that some Blue Flemish may carry Beveren in the background, contributing to the wrong Eye color... but how long can a recessive gene like that be carried? Is this part of the VC gene? Is it something that requires both parents carry it for it to show? I havenever gotten any "mismarked" (VM) kits out this line... is there something else that would affect eye color?


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## pamnock (Apr 14, 2010)

Are there any chins (light grays) in the background? The chin gene can cause those china blue eyes. I see that a lot in the Jersey Woolies.

Beverens in the background could also be a source of vienna carriers. But you are correct that you should have been seeing some VM's if this was the case.



Could I get your permission to use those photos for rabbit school?


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## BlueGiants (Apr 14, 2010)

Thanks Pam! You are welcome to use the photo's. Looking at the pedigrees, I can't find a Light Gray in anyones background for between 7 and 11 generations. How long can something like that be carried?

A lot of Black Flemish used to come from Light Grays and Steel Grays. But a few of us have been breeding total "self" Blacks for a number of years now. I'm real particular about introducing any new blue or black to my herd... and this baby is out of my own lines that I've had for many years. 

Could it be an aberrantmutation or something else? (In case I forgot to mention, both parents are Registered, Sire is Granded. Both have "normal" colored eyes.)


Edited to add: the Doe (Dam) is owned by someone else, but out of my lines too... otherwise I wouldn't have bred her to my best buck!


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## pamnock (Apr 14, 2010)

I don't think that it's an odd mutation, but I really think it can be attributed to the chin gene. Self chins are difficult to tell from actual black and blues, so any of those could have been either carriers or cchd homozygous genotypes. For example: phenotype black, but genotype aa B_ cchd cchd D_ E_ 



Many will have normal eye color, but I've even seen black self chinswith the china blue eyes.

I suspect many of your blues may be aa B_ cchd cchd dd E_ genotype


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## BlueGiants (Apr 14, 2010)

ARGHhhhh! All that work, 12+ years of breeding and many, manygenerationsand I'm still dealing with a recessive chin gene? LOL! 

Honestly, this is the first I've seenof it in a Blue... so it can't be too prevalent... I've never seen it in any of that bucks offspring... and he's bred 14 different does, mostly Blue but a few Blacks. So could it be carried by the doe? Her pedigree with me a lot shorter than his...


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## pamnock (Apr 14, 2010)

*BlueGiants wrote: *


> ARGHhhhh! All that work, 12+ years of breeding and many, manygenerationsand I'm still dealing with a recessive chin gene? LOL!
> 
> Honestly, this is the first I've seenof it in a Blue... so it can't be too prevalent... I've never seen it in any of that bucks offspring... and he's bred 14 different does, mostly Blue but a few Blacks. So could it be carried by the doe? Her pedigree with me a lot shorter than his...



I believe it took over 20 years to breed the wool gene out of most of the New Zealand Lines. Very difficult to breed out recessive genes.

It's most likely prevelant, but doesn't always cause the odd eye colors (marbled/blue).


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## Luluznewz (Apr 14, 2010)

Wow those are really pretty eyes! I wish they werent recessive, I really like the combination with the blue color rabbit.


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## JadeIcing (Apr 14, 2010)

Me want!!


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## pamnock (Apr 14, 2010)

*Luluznewz wrote: *


> Wow those are really pretty eyes! I wish they werent recessive, I really like the combination with the blue color rabbit.


Blue itself is a recessive color. However, the chin gene causing the blue eyes produces different eye colors,and the china blue eyes are not consistently produced.


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## BlueGiants (Apr 14, 2010)

Now I'm wondering if she carries a chin gene, as she matures ifshe will have excessive stray white hairs? (Blue Steel?) 

Pam, looking at the Dam's pedigree, I can only trace her back 7 generations... and the breeders on the pedigree that far back may have used Blacks out of Light grays further back... do you think it's a risk to my "gene pool" to keep the siblings? Type and color wise, they look very promising... but if I have to worry about a recessive Chin gene, I'll part with the litter and notbreed the doe again.


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## pamnock (Apr 14, 2010)

*BlueGiants wrote: *


> Now I'm wondering if she carries a chin gene, as she matures ifshe will have excessive stray white hairs? (Blue Steel?)
> 
> Pam, looking at the Dam's pedigree, I can only trace her back 7 generations... and the breeders on the pedigree that far back may have used Blacks out of Light grays further back... do you think it's a risk to my "gene pool" to keep the siblings? Type and color wise, they look very promising... but if I have to worry about a recessive Chin gene, I'll part with the litter and notbreed the doe again.




Being a self chin doesn't necessarily lend to stray white hairs.

If the rabbits are of good type, I wouldn't part with them, especially if the wrong eye color isn't cropping up too much. I have a feeling that many of the selfs carry chin. Same problem we had when breeding Satins - many of the selfs we had were actually steels that threw unshowable steels when bred to agoutis.


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## BlueGiants (Apr 14, 2010)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> Me want!!


LOL! You are SO bad!


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## BlueGiants (Apr 14, 2010)

Thanks Pam... I'll keep a close eye on them as they grow up.The restare looking pretty good so far.As Alicia said,the blue eyessureare pretty!


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## SilverBirchRabbitry (Apr 14, 2010)

She's gorgeous 
Keep her as a pet.


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## The Turtle (Apr 14, 2010)

Yep, have to agree, very pretty eye color but unshowable of course. George Long took a steel off the table a few weeks ago at Hamburg that had just a little blue to its eyes... I'd guess that would have slipped by 2 out of 3 times, it was so subtle.


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## Myia09 (Apr 14, 2010)

Wow beautiful!


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## JadeIcing (Apr 14, 2010)

*BlueGiants wrote: *


> *JadeIcing wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Me want!!
> ...


I love blue eyes!!


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## elrohwen (Apr 14, 2010)

That is so cool! I know someone with a purebred flemmie who is BEW, but that was the only time I had heard of it until this.

Can I have him since he's not showable? Kthnx!


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