# Sub-Q Penicillin Shot - Need Advice



## Bodhi (May 6, 2008)

Hi,

I am new on here and I have a mini Rex bunny who is 11 years old. She has an abcessed tooth and is currently on sub-q penicillin injections (2 cc's once per week & it is the white, thick & creamy kind). I am somewhat worried because after she has the shot, she is absolutely miserable for about 4-5 hours. She lays on her tummy & will flop from one side to another trying to get comfortable but having a hard time. I will try to hand feed her pellets, and she will eat them, but instead of wolfing them down she will only take one or two and then move and show me her back to let me know to leave her alone. She weighs about 2 1/2 lbs soaking wet and I am just wondering if the 2cc's are too much for her. Does anyone have any experience/thoughts/advice on this? Thanks so much in advance for your help!


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## Rabbit Hutch (May 6, 2008)

shouldn't that be 0.2 cc? Even some of my biggest ones only get .5cc and the smallest .15cc.

If it is Pen G with B it should be roughly 42,000-84,000 IU/kg. I have the dosage I use at home so this is a guesstimate.

Also - a side effect is diarrhea.


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## naturestee (May 6, 2008)

Welcome to the forum!

I recommend pm'ing Ra7751, he's had a lot of experience. Are you diluting it with Lactated Ringers? I know he recommends that.

Has the tooth been removed? If that's the cause of theabscess it will be hard to treat successfully without removing it. I know that could be rough on an 11 year old bun though...


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## Bodhi (May 6, 2008)

*Rabbit Hutch wrote: *


> shouldn't that be 0.2 cc?
> 
> If it is Peb G with B it should be roughly 42,000-84,000 IU/kg. I have the dosage I use at home so this is a guesstimate.
> 
> Also - a side effect is diarrhea.


I just looked at the syringe and it is right on the 2 ml mark. I believe it to be the plain old Penicillin G, it does not have bicillin in it. I have been mixing unsweetened applesauce w/ acidophilius to help counter any diarrhea that might be trying to manifest itself, which she seems to be doing fine on that front.


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## Bodhi (May 6, 2008)

*naturestee wrote: *


> Welcome to the forum!
> 
> I recommend pm'ing Ra7751, he's had a lot of experience. Are you diluting it with Lactated Ringers? I know he recommends that.
> 
> Has the tooth been removed? If that's the cause of theabscess it will be hard to treat successfully without removing it. I know that could be rough on an 11 year old bun though...



Please forgive me, but I am new to this whole message board world, and I am ashamed to say that I don't know how to PM anyone just yet. I just hope that I am able to properly reply to you!  

No, the tooth has not been removed. The infection looks as if it has already spread to the bone (on the X-Rays). Her nose was running & she was sneezing constantly until we started the treatments (3 weeks ago). Things have improved for her, which I am thankful for!


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## Rabbit Hutch (May 6, 2008)

Pen G procaine 20,000-60,000 IU/kg, mean dosage is 40,000

I'd call your vet to confirm. Make sure you know what it is you are giving and the weight and then you can do the calculations from there.


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## Bodhi (May 6, 2008)

*Rabbit Hutch wrote: *


> Pen G procaine 20,000-60,000 IU/kg, mean dosage is 40,000
> 
> I'd call your vet to confirm. Make sure you know what it is you are giving and the weight and then you can do the calculations from there.


I am sorry but I am giving what the vet made up for me to take home. I am not sure how to do the calculations and whatnot. Is there any place on the 'net you could show me where to look? Thank you!


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## ra7751 (May 7, 2008)

Few quick comments on using Penicillin. First, it is important to know the concentration of the drug (and this goes for any drug) to know how to properly dose it. To get proper dosing of a drug you take the mean dosing and multiply it times the weight and divide by concentration (with most drugs). The concentration is where many people make errors. The proper Pen G combination to use in a rabbit for maximum effectiveness contains 150K units of Procaine per mL and 150K units of Benzathine per mL for a total drug concentration of 300K units per mL. The correct dosing (and I am not supposed to do this since I am not a vet) is 35,000-40,000 units of drug per kilogram of weight based on the above noted concentration. To make this simple, a rabbit that weighs 2kg (approx. 4.5 pounds ) would receive 75,000 units...or about .25cc per dose. The drug should be administered every other day sub-q. *It is safe only as an injectable.* The primary side effects are possible sterile skin abscesses (like blisters) at the injection site. Moving the injection points around and buffering with Lactated Ringers helps prevent this. Buffering will also help with the burn of the injection. We have seen GI issues only when the drug is used incorrectly either by giving orally or injecting too high of a dose.

GI upsets are not a usual concern with using this drug. But using a probiotic is not a bad idea especially considering her age. Acidophilus is not a naturally growing bacteria in a rabbit's gut but it works by acidifying and stabilizing the pH in the gut to provide a favorable climate for the growth of beneficial bacteria. A much better option is to use Bene-Bac....it comes in both a powder and a paste...I prefer the powder. It contains some very beneficial cultures....a culture of Enterococcus and L Casei. I use it extensively to control the pH conversion in weaning wild cottontails. Good stuff.

I just noticed you are in Hickory. I would highly suggest contacting Dr. Lauren Powers at Carolina Veterinary Clinic near Charlotte. She is one of the best rabbit vets in the country. She does some wonderful work....I think you would be impressed with her.

Randy


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## Offspring2099 (May 8, 2008)

Bodhi,

Our Penny gets injections every other day. She is about 6lbs and gets 0.4cc. If there is such a great vet in our area( that Randy mentioned), I would strongly suggest going there. A lot of vets don't specialize in rabbits and their knowledge is minimal no matter how smart they are. 

***

Is this the same Bene-Bac powder Randy is talking about?
http://www.jefferspet.com/ssc/product.asp?CID=0&pf_id=4174
Here it says "Birds and Reptiles". Is this one different?

Also, if you buy this, is there a place online that you prefer or is it common in PetCo, PetSmart (chain type stores)?


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## ra7751 (May 8, 2008)

As far as the Bene-Bac, the avian/reptile is different than the mammal version. It is available as a paste...called a "one shot" at most pet store and for some reason is usually in the cat section. It is one gram of paste per tube...enough to do an average size rabbit once a day. The paste can also be purchased much more economically in a larger syringe. I prefer the powder. Our local Petco carries it in a small bottle but it is available from Pet Ag in sizes up to a pound or so. Really good stuff for rabbit guts.

And a warning about Penicillin or any drug for that matter. Just because one rabbit gets a certain amount, that doesn't mean your rabbit will even though it's the same weight. While the mean dosing will always be the same, the concentration of the drug between producers may not all be the same. The concentration of compounded drugs is at the discretion of the "chemist" that is making the compound. For example, the concentration of injectable Baytril is 22.7mg/ml if I remember correctly. But if a vet uses the taste tabs, crushes them and puts them into a suspension....the concentration could be anything and that can lead to over/under dosing. Do not play with drugs....don't mean to sound blunt, but dosing drugs is a serious business that can have dire consequences.

Randy


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## Offspring2099 (May 8, 2008)

Cool, Thanks Randy. 
'Revival Animal Health' has the powder through their Amazon.com shop. Looks like they are Pet Ag's preferred outlet too. 

For anyone who is looking:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00061MROK/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## Bodhi (May 9, 2008)

Thanks guys so much for your help and advice! I have found another vet in the area who was listed under the House Rabbit Society website, so I will be interviewing her here soon. Her name is Dr. Donna Craig and she is located in Lenior, NC & has a mobile vet service. I wish that I could take my little one to Charlotte, but since she has gotten older, she doesn't travel very well and I am limited in that aspect!  Needless to say, I have decided to stop her sub-q shots for now until I can get some more information and make a more informed decision. Thanks again so much for your help!!


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## Bodhi (May 17, 2008)

*ra7751 wrote: *


> As far as the Bene-Bac, the avian/reptile is different than the mammal version. It is available as a paste...called a "one shot" at most pet store and for some reason is usually in the cat section. It is one gram of paste per tube...enough to do an average size rabbit once a day. The paste can also be purchased much more economically in a larger syringe. I prefer the powder. Our local Petco carries it in a small bottle but it is available from Pet Ag in sizes up to a pound or so. Really good stuff for rabbit guts.
> Randy





> About the Bene-Bac power, what do you mix it with to give to your rabbit so that they will eat it?Would unsweetened applesauce be ok? Thanks!


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