# Can girls be just friends with guys?



## PepnFluff (Jun 3, 2011)

Ok so a bit of a background to me asking, I'm staying in my town for a year to work before travelling whilst everyone else is at uni etc. And I have 3 friends left here with me, two whom are guys. One of whom is one of my best friends, we hang out, go to the movies, talk etc just how anyone is with their best friends. And no he's not gay haha, his girlfriend who is also my best friend is away for a couple of months.

Anyway, some people have been telling me recently that I must like him, as It's impossible to be friends without wanting something else and of course we're nothing more than friends yet we get the dirtiest of looks from people who know we're just friends! I'm thinking they just need to grow up, but even some of my best friends are questioning me, like for hecks sake! 

So I'm wanting to know, what do others think? I'm hoping you agree haha.


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## Yield (Jun 3, 2011)

FFF. I know how you feel. My friend Will and I were always accused of dating. Always made me mad. 

I've always wondered the same thing (if things would ever change). But I think society is so hell-bent on this.. it won't change for a while sadly :[


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## Myia09 (Jun 4, 2011)

I am going to offer the other side..my long term boyfriend is BEST friends with 2 girls.

They would continually do things that IMO where horrible and cross boundaries-I don't care if they where friends for 5 years before me. 

i.e- Change in front of each other. One of the girls would fish for compliments (One time, in front of me, he told her she was beautiful), talk in detail of their sex life, if at a party twice they went to the bathroom and urinated in front of each other, the list goes on and on.

I think its a respect issue..yes he can be best friends with them, but there needs to be boundaries and respect. It also doesn't help that they don't like me (I swear it isn't because of me...we have very different life values. They were and kinda still are 2 years later on the "OMG I just graduated high school lets drink Smirnoff and gossip" when I am in a very adult stage)

He also CAN'T put them before me...many a time he canceled DATES, scheduled dates, to hang out with them (I would be there too) 

So my version may be an extreme one...but still drives a point! As long as there are boundaries all an be well.


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## plasticbunny (Jun 4, 2011)

In a word - no.

If a guy and a girl are hanging out as "just friends", at least one side is in denile. I have never been "just friends" with a guy that didn't end up with one of us having feelings for the other. Either I liked them, or they liked me and I could tell andI used it tosmooth overany insicurities I may have had.

I am 25 and am in a 5 year relationship with a man who is 41. Being with someone of an older generation has forced me to give up a lot of whimsicle thinking, and to look at the world from a harsh and realistic point of view. Bottom line, we are animals by nature, with instincts that can far outlast any logical thinking. And as true as we may want to be to our spouse, we are more inclined to follow our loins than our hearts.

Your freindship may be the exception to the rule, and if it is, I applaude you. And honestly, if your respective partners are ok with it, screw what anyone else thinks. But do be honest with yourself about your feelings for him, and likewise, be aware of his feelings for you. If the energy changes and you notice romantic tension between you, you may need to question the nature of this relationship.

Good luck!


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## dragynflye (Jun 4, 2011)

most of my friends are male, always have been. most have been casual friendships, but three or four have been much deeper. when i think of the people who are closest to me, the ones i trust with my life, the ones who i know i could call in the middle of the night and who would be there for me unconditionally- all of them are male. we have been friends since high school (13+ years), and have never been more than friends, or have ever desired to be more than friends. none of them are gay, all are in healthy relationships of their own, i have been happily married for nearly nine years. i have become friends with their wives/girlfriends, and they are friends with my husband. they are brothers to me. one of them saved my life. another gave me a place to stay and helped me get back on my feet when i was homeless. 

i think it is ridiculous to say you can't be "just friends" with a member of the opposite sex. if that's the case, i must be a horrible slut, since i can count on one hand the number of female friends i have had in my life, and all but maybe one of those was a superficial, fleeting friendship.


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## irishlops (Jun 4, 2011)

Nearly all my friends are guys, and for 9 out of 11, I am not sexually or romanticlly attraked to them. I do get bad looks from their girl friends, but we would both know that there is nothing. Im sorry to hear others dont belive you


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## fuzz16 (Jun 4, 2011)

I agree...no. 

I have had gay guy friends, that works out, but its a lot harder with straight guy friends. Although, my bff was straight but his gf hated me for a long time-but I had grown up with him and he was like family, more than a friend. 

When you are older, though, and in a long term relationship I think it's different a bit when you are friends with a guy. I know my fiancwe wouldn't tolerate me being friends with certain guys, and I understand and respect his decsiion. I also have a very very good friend (who is his best friend) that I talk to almost daily, and him and I do the girl talk thing. (we've never met, he's stationed in Texas) But I think if he were here in person we would not be so close....


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## EileenH (Jun 4, 2011)

20 years ago I would have said yes, but looking back on past friendships with guys, I would have to say that to be on equal footing,my answer is no.

I have had way more guy friends that girl friends, and nothing happenedwith either of them. Two of my best friends were guys. In one relationship, we were friends for years platonically, then he started to like me but I wasn't interested and then when he lost interest all of a sudden I had feelings for him.
The other guy I never liked that way but in hindsight, he liked me all along and just kept it to himself. I think back on how hard that must have been for him and how naive I was.


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## degrassi (Jun 4, 2011)

I have to say yes. My best friend is a guy, as are 2 of my other closest friends. I've been best friends with my friend Dustin since we were born. He lives 4 houses down from me and we are always together. Its never been romantic, more brother/ sister. We share everything and have keys to each other's houses. Its never really been an issue with his GF or my BF. I hang out all the time with him and his GF. I think they can see its nothing romantic so its never been a problem. 

Another case is my other best friends. It was the 3 of us forever. I met Dean when we were 4 and Jen came in grade 6. We were best friends(along with Dustin) and hung out all the time together all during school(elementary, high school, Uni, now). It was never romantic until one day it was. Jen and Dean started dating in university. They had been good friends since sixth grade and then something changed. It was very weird for my 2 best friends to start dating and then get married.Not sure what changed but it did and you could feel then difference. So that shows another side to it. But I've been friends with Dean for 24 years and its only ever been a friendship. 

I"m also good friends with Frank. I had a crush on him in highschool but at the time he had GF. I"ve been friends with him for 14 years and its only ever been friends, I got over my crush back in highschool. His new GF I could tell was a bit worried at first as we talk or txt all the time and play video games together all the time but she soon realized that it was nothing more then friends. But on the other hand. My friend Vera is also friends with Frank(also since highschool) but their relationship is a more touchy feely friendship, which I think is a bit inappropriate. They are always cuddling, kissing each other goodbye,acting like fake BF/GF etc. Not something I think you should do with a friend that is a guy. 

I think its all in how the girl and guy act together. You can tell when people are just friends or if there is more between them. They have to respect the "friend line" and not cross it. The friends also have to respect the other person's GF/BF. You just have to make sure you dont' have any romantic feelings for him and he doesn't for you. So each case is different. I don't see why people say it can never work. It works if you want it to work.


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## Nancy McClelland (Jun 4, 2011)

Both yes and no. From all the other posts there are trade offs or problems you'll encounter, but, only you know what goes on behind your eyes.


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## PepnFluff (Jun 5, 2011)

Thanks for all the talk guys, and I'm relieved to see that I'm not the only one out there with close guy friends! Yeah we're more like brother and sister and there well and truely is no feelings there from either side! I do think that friendships like that especially when one is in a relationship that the other does need to know the boundaries and tend to put the boyf/girlf relationship first. 

Another question, how would those in committed relationships take to their partner hanging out with the opposite sex? I can understand some being a bit resentful to the idea, but if you can 100% trust your significant other is it really an issue?


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## SnowyShiloh (Jun 5, 2011)

Yes, I think guys and girls can just be friends. I have had many, many friendships with guys that were absolutely nothing more than that. There have been some friendships where I was also interested in the guy or vice versa, but the vast majority were/are completely platonic  I'm sure there are some people who cannot befriend someone of the opposite sex who they aren't interested in and that makes me kind of sad


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## JadeIcing (Jun 5, 2011)

I think so. Shoot one of my best guy friends is best friends with my husband now. We have been bestfriends for 10 years now.  Yes there are things I would never discuss with them but honestly the same things I wouldn't discuss with a girl friend... 

I think it is silly to think guys and girls can't be friends. Honestly I don't like many girls. They annoy the crap out of me.


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## PepnFluff (Jun 5, 2011)

SnowyShiloh wrote:


> I'm sure there are some people who cannot befriend someone of the opposite sex who they aren't interested in and that makes me kind of sad



I know right! Some of my friends honestly have no good guy friends and I yeah sure with some of my girl friends I can go and blob looking like poo, but with so many who are quite superficial you really can't. But with my guy friends I can just be chill and not have the worry about needing to have a gossip etc with, with so many girls theres always an expectation of something? happening I guess and with so many guys they're sweet with watching tv, gaming or something - much easier in my view hah. Also it's always so nice to have the perspective of a guy, who offers things from a completely different view point.


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## dragynflye (Jun 5, 2011)

*PepnFluff wrote: *


> Another question, how would those in committed relationships take to their partner hanging out with the opposite sex? I can understand some being a bit resentful to the idea, but if you can 100% trust your significant other is it really an issue?



i've been married for almost 10 years. yes, i trust my husband completely. he has female friends. i tease him about his girlfriends, but i also tease him about his boyfriends. if i didn't trust him, i wouldn't have married him, or had a child with him. 

i hear, "i trust him, i just don't trust her" a lot. if you ask me, there is no difference. if you trust your significant other, then why should it matter what the other person feels? if you trust your significant other, you should trust him to do the right thing and tell her no. if you are actually worried that she will convince your partner to do something he shouldn't, then you don't have much faith or trust in him.


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## MiniLopHop (Jun 6, 2011)

yes, I think guys and girls can be friends. I think the problem comes in if you are trusting your guy friend with things you wouldn't tell your partner about, that is crossing a line. Emotional infadelity can be much trickier because two people never need touch.

I think being in marching band desensitised me to the changing in front of the opposite sex. It was never a big deal and we changed on the band bus all the time. In college our uniform was a kilt and the guys didn't always sit properly so you ended up seeing a lot more of them than proper. *shrug* not a big deal.

I have been married 12 years and my husband also has female friends. I am going to be in a wedding next week for one of them, we became close as well.


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## Nancy McClelland (Jun 6, 2011)

A long, long time ago in a land far, far away........we went to my nieces birthday party. We had been married for a year. Some of my sisters friends that I knew since they were 5 years old came over to chat and say "HI!" Nancy latched onto my arm so hard I'm surprised I didn't get a bruise or two. When we got home, and, since I believe in "praise in public and chastise in private, I climbed all over her as it was embarrassing, uncalled for, and inappropriate. We're talking about someone that knew me for three years before we got married and knew that they were classmates of my sister. Something to keep in mind.


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## irishbunny (Jun 6, 2011)

Since I went to an all girls secondary school, I have not had much experience with having guys friends yet. Except my friend's BF has become a very good friend of mine. We get on like a house on fire and sometimes he would even come to my house if she was busy doing something at home and have a cup of tea and a chat. It was all fine until he confessed that he had started having feelings for me. It sucked because he had become such a close friend of mine. I'm sure it can work, but you have to be careful and it is horrible when it all comes tumbling down because they have feelings for you after you have become close friends.


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## NickZac (Jun 20, 2011)

I am a guy and I have to say both yes and no. I will now offer a different perspective...

There is almost always sexual tension on one and sometimes both sides. Usually, it is the guy who is romantically attracted to the girl, but the girl doesn't see him in that sense. It eventually hits a point in which this comes out. If your guy friend wants to be with you romantically and you start dating someone else, the relationship can suffer turmoil and emotions can fly. Also, if you start dating someone and they see you hanging with people of the opposite sex, then sexual jealousy often erupts.

Finally, I want to say this. Perhaps you should consider dating your friends who are guys. More than likely, they are decent people who truly care about you and aren't just in it to get laid. During my life, I have known many girls whom were good friends with some of the most stand-up guys around, yet date some 'bad-boy' piece of crap while breaking the heart of the good guys who want to be with them and liked them for who they are. I am not saying that you, or anyone else here for that matter, do this, but I have seen it first hand. Heck, it's happened to me first hand.

Despite what many people say, men are far more emotional than women are and they are much more easily heartbroken, although few guys will admit this as they must be 'manly'. Women tend to fall in love later and fall out of love earlier than men. And honestly, being a 'guy friend' and having a girl that you truly care for and want to be with long-term turn you down and then date some loser-dude is very painful, and it even negatively changes how you look at romance and girls in general.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Jun 24, 2011)

I agree on the yes & no. I think it depends on the people, though. 

I have a couple of guy friends who are just that - friends. Would I date them? Ehh...it depends. Lol. I'd have to develop _those _feelings for them first, and I just might not ever have those feelings toward them. Another one of my guy friends was just a friend - and then we both started liking eachother. None of my guy friends are gay either. And a couple of them are close enough that I can tell most everything too, just like I can my best girl-friend.  

I've heard the saying that your SO IS your best friend...  

Emily


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## missyscove (Jun 25, 2011)

I went to an all-girls high school so at the time having male friends was something of a novelty. In college I still have many more female than male friends (I live with 5 other girls, for example, and my major is predominately female) but I do have my fair share of guy friends. So yes, I think girls and guys can be just friends, but then again, my boyfriend of 2.5 years and I were "just friends" for 6 months before we started dating so I guess it depends on the girl and the guy.


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## kuniklos (Jun 26, 2011)

Yes, it's absolutely possible. If someone doesn't think that you can just be friends with the opposite gender, they have some serious issues with socializing and setting boundaries if they are breeched.

I'm female and I can count on one hand the number of female friends I have had. All of my friends are guys. Yes, sometimes they "liked me" or I "liked them"," but is rarely amounted to anything. If I was interested in a friend romantically, I was pretty open about saying, "Hey, I feel x and x for you. Do you feel the same?" If they didn't I tended my little heart and moved on. Sometimes they remained friends with me, sometimes they didn't. And the same went in reverse. If I didn't like the guy, I let them know that nothing is weird between us, but I am just not interested.

If the feelings are platonic (nearly all my friendships have been) this should not be an issue. But some people cannot handle being friends with someone they are romantically interested in without getting what they want. These things happen.

I would suspect the people giving you hell are just looking for gossip or drama. I would lay it out to them.


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## plasticbunny (Jun 26, 2011)

*kuniklos wrote: *


> Yes, it's absolutely possible. If someone doesn't think that you can just be friends with the opposite gender, they have some serious issues with socializing and setting boundaries if they are breeched.




As I stated, I am of the opinion that men and women cannot, in general, be friends. I have to say I found your comment somewhat offensive. Perhaps you should be a little moire careful with how you phrase things. You can voice your own opinion without hurting the feelings of others.


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## kuniklos (Jun 26, 2011)

*plasticbunny wrote: *


> *kuniklos wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Yes, it's absolutely possible. If someone doesn't think that you can just be friends with the opposite gender, they have some serious issues with socializing and setting boundaries if they are breeched.
> ...


I am sorry you feel offended, but I don't believe there is a kinder way to phrase it. Sure, we may be animals, but what separates us from the animals culture and our ability to deny biology. Dr. Helen Fischer and Dr. Desmond Morris are leading examples in research on sexual biology. I highly recommend, "The Sex Contract." Really opened my eye about theory on human nature. Not that I had issues with the male friends before. I couldn't imagine being incapable of being friends with a male without having complicated feelings. It's completely unfathomable to me. They are people, not just prospective partners. If this was true, I'd have shagged my way through a dozen countries by now and out of a really fantastic relationship. If you can't be friends with men, that's fine for you. But you might be missing out on some great people in your life. Having males friends is so different to having female friends. It's refreshing much of the time.

I have been with my fiancee for six years, and my two closest friends are male. They are both like brothers to me. One of them I travel with every other year. He and I went to Japan for two months right after high school, and this summer he and I are backpacking around continental Europe. And nothing has ever happened between us. I have never had complicated feelings for him. He has a crush on me when where we...12, more than a decade ago. But that ended pretty quickly (after all, the only guy for me at the time was singing in the Backstreet Boys XD). My other closest friend is my fiancee's best friend. He's my yoga and biking buddy to boot. We also go camping once the fall comes around. Nothing has ever happened between any of us. I have another half dozen guys in my life I can call friends. I'm actually about to meet one for coffee in about an hour and a half so our rabbits can have a little "date" together and I can get my Old Fashioned donut on.

Not to mention work! I work as an archaeologist and spend weeks, and sometimes months of the year living away from him, sharing accommodations with other males. And I mean tiny hostel rooms, and tents that hold 4 people but we manage to fit 6. Not glamorous, but for all that time and contact together, you'd imagine someone would have made a move. Or maybe there is something about dirty academics with a shovel that just doesn't get my goat.  They might just need more funding to catch me. HA!


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## plasticbunny (Jun 26, 2011)

I do believe there was another way to TACTFULLY phrase your opinion. 

I am offended because you blatentlystated that the people who believe that men and women cannot be friends have "some serious issues with socializing", which implies that those people are somehow socially disabled. I am, in fact, one of those people, but I do NOT have any "issues". I have no social inadiquacies. I don't break out in a cold sweat in public. I have simply, from my own experiences, discovered that I cannot have friendships with men, because one side has always developed feelings for the other side, and visa versa. This is MY opinion, no one elses. I was asked for it, and so I gave it. And in giving it, I did not demean anyone elses opinion, or insult anyone else. You did.


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## mishalaa (Jun 26, 2011)

It depends where you draw the line between just friends and not just friends.

Shaina, from your post I'm gathering that you think something physical has to happen before you're no longer just friends. I, and I believe Erin, don't think that's the case. I believe that once one party or the other develops feelings, you are no longer just friends - you are friends with feelings, even if nothing physical happens. Feelings that aren't returned just create tension, even if you remain friends.

If "not just friends" means something physical happening, then certainly it's possible and quite common to be just friends with the opposite sex.

If "not just friends" means one or the other (or both!) develop feelings, I do believe that's still possible, but fairly rare. USUALLY, as Erin said, someone will start having feelings.

Even in entirely platonic relationships, I'd bet everyone at least thinks about the possibility of a romantic relationship once or twice, even without feelings.

"If equal love cannot be, let the more loving one be me."


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## kuniklos (Jun 26, 2011)

Certainly people could entertain the idea and think about the "what ifs". I can agree on that for sure. But (correct me if I am reading this wrong) it seems like that's a negative thing to have thoughts and curiosities or these sorts, or that is leads to some sort of trouble. Hello 1984! But just because you think it, doesn't mean romantic or sexual feelings are involved. 

I think a good discussion would be what makes feelings toward a friend the same or different than feelings towards a lover or romantic partner. I think intention and sexual desire plays a big role as well. What about people who are bi? Because they could be attracted to or have romantic feelings towards both genders, does that mean that they can't just be friends with anyone (other than bunnies ofourse)?


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## plasticbunny (Jun 26, 2011)

Oh, Mish, I think you hit the nail on the head. I do think I should clarify.

I have been in the same relationship with the same man for 5 years. I am certainly not what I would consider the jealous type, but IF my boyfriend were to have a female friend, and IF that female friend had ANY SORT of romantic or sexual feelings towards my man (or he had feelings for her), I would quite obviously have an issue with it. I don't care that they didn't act on it, or wouldn't act on it. The fact is, a line was crossed. Likewise, IF I had a male friend, and he or I ever had some sort of attraction towards each other (which I think is almost always inevitable at some point), I would consider that as... well, almost like cheating. It would be a situation that would make my boyfriend unhappy, and is therefore inappropriate behavior on my part.

Sure, I've had "male friends". Male friends I've never kissed, slept with, snuggled, talked dirty to, dated, loved, etc. Does that mean they were always "just friends"? Not a chance. We flirted. We had impure thoughts of each other.

To sum it up, I think the line between "just friends" and "more than _" is crossed the second something happens between you that would be considered inappropriate in a relationship. Which, coincidently, almost always happens.

So perhaps, Shaina, our idea of what constitutes "just friends" is what's different. Perhaps you think it is acceptable to flirt or hug or have fantasies of your male friends. Or perhaps, you've been blessed by having many male friends that you have never ever had a single fantasy of, and they've never had a single fantasy of you. If so, congrats.

I just think differently, I suppose.


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## kuniklos (Jun 26, 2011)

I think you have the right, plasticbunny. Our views on what's acceptable are different. My friends and I, regardless of gender so kiss each other on the cheek and foreheads. But I spent so much of my life abroad where it is acceptable that it never phases me. Personal space is different in the US. Nudity in continental Europe: you see it frequently. Here? In public, hell no. Have I seen all my non-American female friends nude? Yep! What about the male? A few! Kisses and hugs? Totally friendly! But your wouldn't stick your tongue down a friend's throat.

My guy and I have female and male friends. There have been situations where one and an ex or had a crush on one of us: but we were never bothered by it. My guy is, for lack of a better way to saying it, too lazy to pursue other woman or even hobbies once he's happy. I would never betray his trust because I have been cheated on. But it hasn't killed my trust in my loved one either and made me jealous or leery of other people.


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## MsBunBun (Jun 27, 2011)

In my opinion, its really hard to have a straight male friend. There are rare instances when you can just be friends with them. I don't seem to have that luck. lol. They always try to hit on you or end up being attracted to you most of the time. And then 90% of the time when you tell them_ nicely_ that you don't feel the same... they avoid you. But yeah, that's how it's been for me.

My current best male friend is, of course, gay. People thought for the longest time that we were going out as well but that is no surprise to me.


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## NickZac (Jun 27, 2011)

kuniklos wrote:


> Yes, it's absolutely possible.Â  If someone doesn't think that you can just be friends with the opposite gender, they have some serious issues with socializing and setting boundaries if they are breeched.



I am somewhat troubled that one in the field of the humanities would say this.


This is far more complicated issue than the above quote makes it appear. While this is not a penis and vagina kind of an issue, it is very much so an issue of the cultural implications of having a penis or a vagina in the Western world (While the implications of not being a 'traditional' heterosexual male or female is even more complicated of an issue, for the sake of the current topic I will not discuss this given the length and the below is specific to heterosexual male and female interactions.)

What you choose to do is not completely made at an individual level. The things that everyone does is based on what society, as the larger whole, tells us is acceptable to do. In this instance, the macro influences the micro, and this is normal. Sociology studies this, as does anthropology but to a slightly different degree (which includes archaeology). When the individual level does NOT follow the macro set standards, it is seen as dysfunctional. Abnormal and dysfunctional psychology studies this and how the individual acts and reacts according from the commands given to them by the macro. Intersexual interaction is far more complicated than same-sex interaction as there are more rigid social guidelines that define what is and what is not acceptable.

A few of the many issues that define how men and women interact with each other are:
*-Gender roles*, which includes cultural and sexual expectations. For the entire life, we are all taught to do and not to do things. The biggest institutions of thought are usually school, home, and religious gatherings. Sex defines a ridiculously high majority of these things; what is considered okay for one sex is not for the other.
*-Sex is a taboo * (In the US more so than other places). Certain things are not okay in todayâs society; look at how infuriated people get over interracial couples for example (and how a White and Black couple are discriminated against far more than any other same race or interracial mix).
*-Sexual jealousy*-many (not all) people will become unhappy if their spouse frequently interacts with those of the opposite gender. As I said this is not always, but it is much more frequently than people perceive, as those whom voice their unhappiness are only a small minority of those who are unhappy. Some sexologists argue that this sexual jealousy is such an issue that NO one of opposite genders can be just friends. I don't see it to that extreme, but this is often the case. Likewise, it can cause unhappiness when an opposite-sex friend that likes you in a fully romantic sense sees you going to bed with someone else. Just because you do not want to have sex with someone does NOT mean that they feel the same.
*-Socioeconomic status*-we are all taught to be friends with people of one SES, and to date those of another-ex: "marry a doctor or a lawyer and not a garbage-man". SES can influence whom we like in what sense at only a subconscious level.
*-Deviance*-things that are not culturally acceptable are labeled as being 'deviant', which carries a level of social stigma that can damage one's reputation as an individual. While this view is (finally) starting to fade, currently, girls that hang out with almost all guys are often called 'whores' or âlooseâ, and guys that hang out with all girls are called 'pimps' or 'players'. The media also refers to a guy being a friend with a girl as a âdick in a jarâ. While this shows that female sexuality is far more repressed and stigmatized than male sexuality, both of the above still constitute deviance. It is still not completely culturally acceptable, and it is a topic that is still controversial.
*-âRomanticâ Love*-the notion of traditionally poet romantic love is a joke. The âI loved you upon first sightâ simply means âI would like to have sex with youâ or âYou possess something that I would like to have as wellâ. One can call this infatuation or simple desire of non love-related components. The notion of love that many people believe exists does not. Love is far more complex and one can argue that love is even learned. If you are friends with someone of the opposite sex for a long time, you (or they) may one day realize intense, true, and complete love, despite not having thought about this previously over a period of years, and sometimes decades. This ârealâ love never just âappearsâ, and the notion of the romantic love and âlove-at-first-sightâ is a driving force behind such a high divorce rate. The love type that everyone should want to reach (and maintain through passionate and intimate expression) is the type of love that endures for many decades; this is called consummate love (see the Triangular Theory of Love). So in summary, love is not static and (mutual or unreturned) love can occur after a long period of a mutually plutonic relationship, which can complicate everything.

I am not implying that mutual intersexual plutonic friendships are impossible. I have some good friends that are female whom I am not interested in having sex with. I am also not saying that anyone here with good individual friendships is wrong, as I am sure many people here have healthy friendships with those of the opposite sex. I am also not justifying the right or wrong of our current social norms. I am, however, illustrating how our society creates dynamics that are more complicated for this type of friendship.

âIf someone doesn't think that you can just be friends with the opposite gender, they have some serious issues with socializing and setting boundaries if they are breeched.â Ultimately, this only shows one's lack of understanding or denial of how society functions, as well as how an exception does not change or invalidate a current norm. My grandmother lived to 98 in unusually good health for her age despite smoking for 75+ of her years; that doesnât mean that is the common outcome of decades of heavy smoking.


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## kuniklos (Jun 27, 2011)

*plasticbunny wrote:*


> So perhaps, Shaina, our idea of what constitutes "just friends" is what's different. Perhaps you think it is acceptable to flirt or hug or have fantasies of your male friends. Or perhaps, you've been blessed by having many male friends that you have never ever had a single fantasy of, and they've never had a single fantasy of you. If so, congrats.


But now you insult but suggesting that the only reason I have males friends is because I flirt or am having fantasies with them. Because obviously I must have these secret harbored desires for them. Oh woe is my lasciviousness.


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## nermal71 (Jun 27, 2011)

I'm thinking this is getting way out of hand.


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## kuniklos (Jun 27, 2011)

*NickZac wrote: *


> kuniklos wrote:
> 
> 
> > Yes, it's absolutely possible. If someone doesn't think that you can just be friends with the opposite gender, they have some serious issues with socializing and setting boundaries if they are breeched.
> ...


You definitely do me some shame here, although even with my degree, even I see the issues with anthropological theory. This is why I took to archaeology over. You can explain everything with something.

Anthropological theory (although I could just claim relativism and be done with it, but that wouldn't be any fun!) is funny. You can't pick one model and say "this is it!" This if fact! Because there are social models to explain everything. And being in the age of Post-Modernism, anything goes. The last AAA meeting near me (in Phili i 2009) I attended as themed, "The End of Anthropology," due to post-modern thought. There really is no right or wrong theory, and the argument is endless. I love Dr. Helen Fischer's early stuff on sex in that she claims everything we do and desire is linked to it in the end. It does make sense, and I could agree with it. But at the same time I am a materialist following Marvin Harris in the end. Sure, I can agree that we react to our environment at the basis, certainly. And we can trace any behavior through the structure, and superstructure...but there are always exceptions to the rule. I don't feel I am an exception by any means. I can only think of a few people in my life who have issues being friend with the opposite gender. And they all had to do with trauma or jealousy. 

I'm extremely happy and I have my fiance who fills so many roles in my life, and friends who fill other roles. If I am healthy, happy, and successful I must be a deviant? I think deviance really needs a rewrite. I could even be a deviant in such that I have never used drugs. Not even in college. Not a wiff of pot. Nada. But "everyone" tries something at some point for the most part, right? *Sure deviance is meant to be an abnormality from the norm, but for most people deviance = bad. It's not.* I have companions for all seasons and activities. No one needs to be alone, bored, emotionally stressed or confused, or has to feel jealousy or emptiness. They do it to themselves, and that's the tragedy. Limiting your friends due to gender is one such way to make yourself unhappy. If you are happy in the "red tent" then power to them! But I am not. My best friend and I have been riding each others coat tails since we were 10 years old. If anyone suggested I had a thing for him, it would feel like they were accusing me of incest.


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## NickZac (Jun 27, 2011)

kuniklos wrote:


> *NickZac wrote: *
> 
> 
> > kuniklos wrote:
> ...



While you may not think that you are the exception, you are opposing the dominant opinion, which can indeed be the exception.

As I stated previously


> I am not implying that mutual intersexual plutonic friendships are impossible. I have some good friends that are female whom I am not interested in having sex with. I am also not saying that anyone here with good individual friendships is wrong, as I am sure many people here have healthy friendships with those of the opposite sex. I am also not justifying the right or wrong of our current social norms. I am, however, illustrating how our society creates dynamics that are more complicated for this type of friendship.
> 
> âIf someone doesn't think that you can just be friends with the opposite gender, they have some serious issues with socializing and setting boundaries if they are breeched.â Ultimately, this only shows one's lack of understanding or denial of how society functions, as well as how an exception does not change or invalidate a current norm. My grandmother lived to 98 in unusually good health for her age despite smoking for 75+ of her years; that doesnât mean that is the common outcome of decades of heavy smoking.



1) In your local group or culture, it may be more or less acceptable. This can often occur due to groupthink/cultural cohesiveness. In fact, NOT having friends of the opposite sex may be deviant in your social structure.
2) There are exceptions to everything; you admitted this yourself. If a man jumps in his fridge during an EF 5 tornado, which throws the fridge 5 miles and he survives without a scratch, it would be shortsighted to conclude that any substantial amount of tornado versus fridge cases will result in the same outcome. 
3) One person does not always reflect the norm; see number 2
4) I never said deviance was good or bad; I am saying that it is and not that it is ___ (insert individual interpretation here). In some ways, deviance acts as a function of social control and cohesion. It can vary largely from one group to another (look at abortion). You have shown that you think a lack of relationships between girls and guys are deviant, when you imply people who do not have some sort of "serious issue". You reiterate this when you imply that not functioning in the manner you see as correct is a means that can result in a negative outcome.
5) I never said to limit your social horizon but I DID say mutually plutonic male/female relationships were more complicated than same sex relationships. Recognizing the differences in the dynamics can HELP create a stronger and more enduring relationship. Much like race, when sexuality is openly discussed, all types of relationships tend to be more healthy.
6) If you want to take this to the next level, one can argue that as the equality between men and women continues to become more parallel, the ability for successful intersex friendships will continue to increase. Given you have gone to college, you are in a higher SES. Higher education is often linked to equality and a lower SES is linked to more rigid gender norms. Going to college at all is still not the norm. Because you have a degree(s), your independence (and so your SES) has increased, which may make intersex friendships easier.

We are all biased and motivated by first hand experience. Reducing social phenomenon into simple concepts does not work in this case. Your reasoning and justification is poor, although what you say is obviously true for some people/groups. More than likely, you have a healthy relationship with both your friends and your fiance. You are probably a nice person, but I feel that you are refusing to look at a complex issue in only one way, despite there clearly being more to the issue. If someone does not function exactly like you, this does not mean that they have any sort of social dysfunction, issue, or are more likely to be unhappy.


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## plasticbunny (Jun 28, 2011)

*kuniklos wrote: *


> *plasticbunny wrote:*
> 
> 
> > So perhaps, Shaina, our idea of what constitutes "just friends" is what's different. Perhaps you think it is acceptable to flirt or hug or have fantasies of your male friends. Or perhaps, you've been blessed by having many male friends that you have never ever had a single fantasy of, and they've never had a single fantasy of you. If so, congrats.
> ...




Um, that's not what I said. Try reading it again.


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## MiniLopHop (Jun 28, 2011)

Personally I think flirting and having fantasies is fun as long as it doesn't go anywhere. We share our fantasies with each other to enhance our interactions. Heck, I will point out girls in skimpy outfits to my husband. He's married, not dead. As long as it is look but not touch we are happy. Perhaps the important part is that we both feel the same way so it doesn't cause any stress in our relationship. We know that we are commited and faithful to each other.


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## JadeIcing (Jun 29, 2011)

Interesting... I have one male friend since we were infants, another two from grade school, 3 from middle school,and 5 from high school, and one from just after HS. I am 28 will be 29 in October and never once has anything happened between us. Never thought of it oh and my husband has become good friends with them.


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## Aina (Jul 3, 2011)

It depends. You have to consider what people are thinking on both sides. I don't think you can make blanket statements, because honestly, people aren't that simply.

I have lots of guy friends, especially since all my female friends left me for the summer. But they are generally also my brother's friends too and I don't hang out with them one-on-one much. There are a few that I would date, and I have no problem getting closer to them as friends, but if I would not date them then the friendship will always be surface level because I want to preserve both of our hearts from the possibility of something happening and someone's heart being broken.

I think that it is perfectly fine having friends of the opposite gender, but there are some things to consider.

First, consider yourself and your friend's feelings. You may think it is platonic and they think it is not and that can cause drama. Two of my best friends were getting closer and I knew one had a huge crush on the other and the other was just "wait and see" and I warned him that she liked him and he needed to back off if he didn't like her. Well, he didn't, and they blew up and it took a while for them to be just friends again. 

Another thing to ask what your SO is thinking. Not what *you* would think in a similar situation, but what *he or she* thinks. If they are unhappy with you having close relationships with people of the opposite gender, than you probably need to stop. Note, that is can go to an extreme, if your SO gets jealous because he sees you just speak to someone of the opposite gender, you may have some jealousy issues there.

Lastly, consider their relationships too. You need to be respectful of the other's SO as well as your own. 

If it seems like everything like that adds up, then be friends, but continually be checking to see if you need to back off on the friendship some. I'm always amazed at how many people are like "It just came out of nowhere" when the issues have really been coming for a while.


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## NZminilops (Aug 27, 2011)

My best friend is a guy and we have been best buds since we were 11 (now 29). No feelings ever on my side, and if he ever had feelings for me he never let on.


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## jeanluc_pippen_merry (Aug 27, 2011)

I know you can be just friends with the opposite sex because i am just friends with men and don't want anything from them other than what they already give me, their friendship. Whether the person who you are just friends with feels the same way as you is another story. It's always possible that someone who you would only ever consider a friend might "want" or "wish" or could see themselves being more than your friend. If any of my male friends ever felt that way about me i would never have known because to me i never saw my male friends as anything but that, a friend. 

However there was this 1 time, in band camp... JUST KIDDING! that i was told that 1 of my buddies was into me. Of course i brushed it off and thought they were just trying to be funny or something, but it turned out he did. But again, just because someone who you consider to be a friend and no more ends up liking you in a "deeper" way doesn't mean that you can't just be friends. 

I agree with one of the other posts, there have to be boundaries though if you are involved in a relationship. No reason why you can't remain friends (not you personally, just speaking in general) but there have to be new boundaries set, not only out of respect but because without them the relationship could get rocky.

*PepnFluff wrote: *


> Another question, how would those in committed relationships take to their partner hanging out with the opposite sex? I can understand some being a bit resentful to the idea, but if you can 100% trust your significant other is it really an issue?


If my other half was going to "hang out" with someone, i would be hanging out with them. =P When you're in a serious and committed relationship, there really isn't a "I'll hang with my friends and you can hang with yours" kinda thing any more. "His" and "mine" become "our" friends. And i think that is important in a relationship, but it's also important to have personal time with your friends. Everyone needs a break from their other halves, even from their children!


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## LakeCondo (Oct 31, 2011)

Considering that men, especially young men think about sex every 5-10 minutes, I'd want to steer clear of too much one-on-one time except in public places, if you want to remain friends. Of course once you're 90 or so ...


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## NickZac (Nov 26, 2011)

LakeCondo wrote:


> Considering that men, especially young men think about sex every 5-10 minutes, I'd want to steer clear of too much one-on-one time except in public places, if you want to remain friends.Â  Of course once you're 90 or so ...



I think most people think about sex frequently, regardless of gender. This forum brings an interesting perspective because it seems to be more females than males...most online forums seems to be composed of males. Horny males at that whom's primary motto is "OMG a girl..hooray boobies!"...however, many of them are on forums because of the way they think of females in an almost material fashion. Many of those people are very negative individuals not just in regards to their love life. I try to avoid that type as they bring everyone down. Obvious other people, including females do too. No one likes to be simplified in that fashion.

And while I do think that there are a lot of complications regarding male and female plutonic friendships, I want to let this serve a reminder that not ALL young males are just looking to get laid. And just because I may think "wow she's a really attractive person" doesn't mean I also don't think "wow, she's a really intelligent person" or "wow, her honesty is refreshing", or "wow, she's someone who is a really positive person who I want to be around". Furthermore, just because I may say "wow, she's an attractive person" doesn't mean I am saying "wow I hope I can get laid". There are still some decent young men. Likewise, there are still some decent young women. Both IMO have become scarce, at least around this neck of the woods.


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## shawnwk1 (Nov 26, 2011)

i have lots of female friends and there is no feeings there whatsoever on either side so yes it's possible. 2 of these female friends are actually my best friends and who i hang out with and talk to the most. yes people tend to get jealous (especially new relationship partners), but most of the time they will ask just because they are curious not to be rude or anything (now if the same person keeps asking then that's different). perhaps they wonder because of how you two talk to each other or maybe flirt a little (yes it can be done innocently and without feelings) or your body language towards each other?


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## LakeCondo (Nov 26, 2011)

*NickZac wrote*


> I think most people think about sex frequently, regardless of gender.


Somehow I don't think NickZac has ever been a woman with several preschoolers at home. Sleep is the main thing on her mind. And as I recall, the average young man thinks about sex at least 5 times as often as does the average young woman. Women's sexual peak comes after 35, generally.


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## NickZac (Nov 27, 2011)

LakeCondo wrote:


> *NickZac wrote*
> 
> 
> > I think most people think about sex frequently, regardless of gender.
> ...



I can't say that I have...I am a little young for that still! I am sure as I gain experience in life that my opinions could change, as life experiences shape our thought process. And you are correct. Late thirties to mid 40s is a woman's sexual peak...and for us men it is around 17-19. Bummer for us...especially given both male and female identity is so interwoven with sexuality. Masculinity has become largely sex defined and our culture creates a perception that in order to be a 'real man' you have to be practically a sex machine.


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## LakeCondo (Nov 27, 2011)

You put it well, Zac.


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## cocorabbit (Nov 27, 2011)

Uh I ended up marrying my best friend.

I swore we were "just friends" and was SURE he'd NEVER like me... after a couple of years.. I think it's inevitable, someone will start liking the other, even if it's not mutual. Or sometimes it does become mutual... like in my case.

In either way. Just know that if you consider each other such best friends it is possible to turn into something else sooner or later.

But what's wrong with that if it works out for ya?! ;-)


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## NickZac (Nov 27, 2011)

LakeCondo wrote:


> You put it well, Zac.



Thanks Hopefully one day I will know first hand the feelings of having a bunch of youngins in the home.


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## NickZac (Nov 27, 2011)

cocorabbit wrote:


> Uh I ended up marrying my best friend.
> 
> I swore we were "just friends" and was SURE he'd NEVER like me... after a couple of years.. I think it's inevitable, someone will start liking the other, even if it's not mutual. Or sometimes it does become mutual... like in my case.
> 
> ...




This is def the most solid foundation two can have IMO. Long-term/good friends turned romantic lovers is usually the type of relationship is the one that has the lowest divorce rates and highest marital satisfaction rates. Kudos to y'all!


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