# Thymoma cancer



## Pops (May 20, 2013)

Hi All,

My poppy is 7.5 years old and has just been diagnosed with Thymoma's as well.

I just wanted to find on this forum anyone else who has experienced this illness with their bunnies, how old were they? did they survive? 

I have decided not to put poppy through the pain of surgery or radiation since she is nearly 8 years old already and from the cases I've read, i would only be extending our time with together for a few more months maybe. And I guess I can't be selfish...sometimes when your loved pet needs to go, you have to let them go...

Poppy is extremely lively all the time has great appetite and jumps around a lot. It doesn't seem that she is sick at all and she certainly doesn't act her age!

The ups and the downs mainly come from my own emotions...somedays I'm relaxed and happy because I see poppy enjoying herself. Other days, I am worried and scared of losing her.

Do you have any thoughts or advice you could give me please?

Thank you


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## Nancy McClelland (May 20, 2013)

The only experience we had was our big boy Milli had what we thought was an abscess on his jaw that came back and turned out to be bone cancer. We kept him comfy for a short while but when it became clear he was in pain, we had to make that last vet trip no one wants to make. We had him with us for two months after diagnosis. ray: to you both.


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## Pops (May 22, 2013)

Thanks nancy. How old was milli? 

It is different to what poppy has...but I guess it's still sad when their conditions can change so quickly after being diagnosed.

I hope that you are coping well with your loss. Thank you for your support and prayers.


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## HEM (May 22, 2013)

We don't have any experience with this but just want to extend our thoughts to both you and Poppy. It sounds like she is still enjoying life and has lived a great long life.
Sorry we can't give any advice and just offer support.
Cherish Poppy as much as you can, bunnies are so very preshis!!!


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## PaGal (May 22, 2013)

I haven't gone though this with a bun but have with a cat, ferret and a close family member. I know how very hard it is having to make the decision for your loved furry family member but I do feel that when they are suffering it is the best thing for them. 

I know with the family member near the end he was ready to go and I can only imagine an animal may feel the same although they may not be able to communicate it to us.

My prayers and thoughts are with you and Poppy.


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## Ilovemyrabbit (May 22, 2013)

I haven't ever experienced this, but I really hope everything goes okay. My thoughts and prayers are with you. ray:


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## tonyshuman (May 29, 2013)

Our Benjamin had thymoma. He was about 3 and a half. We made a similar decision. He was pretty active and happy. I wrote a bit about it here: http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f22/thymoma-65940/


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## rabbit_friend (Jun 20, 2013)

My bunny was diagnosed with thymoma in early December 2012. He had some wheezing and his eyes bulged somewhat, with the third eyelid present. I contacted everyone I could find online who had had a bunny with this condition (about 18 people), and based on the feedback and the rest of my research, opted for radiation. We had to drive 2 hours to the nearest vet school for this, one time a week for 4 weeks. 

The first treatment was stressful for him because his thymoma was interfering with his breathing, and they didn't know the best way to do anesthesia for him (every rabbit of course takes it differently). Once they did the anesthesia the right way for him, he sailed through the other 3 treatments. The tumor started shrinking right after the first treatment.

He just had his 5-month followup visit and has been declared in remission, meaning the tumor is stable (not regrowing). His heart and lungs sounded good. We will do another followup in 2 months, since it is likely that the tumor will start regrowing eventually, though I have heard of rabbits whose tumors went away completely with radiation, sometimes several months after radiation ended.

Prednisolone (a steroid) is also an option. There are risks involved, but a vet I spoke to in California told me he thought no one should give up on a rabbit with thymoma without trying it. Several people I contacted had rabbits that lived 12-24 months on prednisolone. I opted against it because my bunny hates being picked up and syringed and I felt the limited number of radiation treatments would be less stressful on him, even with the long drive (his bondmate went with him each time). I had to give him antibiotics for 2 weeks in February for an unrelated reason, and that confirmed that I made the right choice, since he hated being given his antibiotics! 

Since the diagnosis was very sudden, we are very happy to have had this extra time to come to terms with his condition and to watch him frolic and snuggle with his companion. So far it has been 5 months without any treatments, and we hope we have many more ahead. 

Our bunny was hopping around and acting normally too, which is why the diagnosis came as such a shock. Then during the two weeks between diagnosis and first radiation, he rapidly went downhill. We were lucky to get him in right before Christmas, because the next chance with the holidays would have been January and I'm not sure he would have survived till then.

Here is a blog post about another rabbit who has done radiation and is now a year past his last treatment: Baxter's thymoma There are several other posts about him if you click on the links to the right in the blog. 

Good luck with Poppy. I know what a stress it is to decide how to continue. I went back and forth many, many times, and spent every waking moment doing research. Even though it was 2 hours away, I had access to an excellent university exotics department experienced in handling rabbits, a radiation oncologist with experience at another university treating rabbits, and cutting edge technology. I know of other rabbit owners who have driven even further to get such, so I feel lucky.

Edit: forgot to add that my bunny was about 6 years old when diagnosed, and weighs 3.5 pounds.


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## tonyshuman (Jun 20, 2013)

It is true that treatments are getting better and less stressful in recent years if you have access to a vet school or veterinary oncology specialist.


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## Pops (Jul 7, 2013)

Thank you all for your messages! It's great to know that there are some success stories out there and also a lot of support! 

Here's an update on Poppy....

So she's been diagnosed with Thymoma's for 2 months now. And I am pleased to say that Poppy is doing so well since the diagnosis.

I had discussed it with the vet in detail and thought about it a lot myself as to what the right thing for poppy to do was...and I decided that I did not want to progress with any major treatment. The reasons were simple and as follows:

1) poppy is already 7.5 years old and if she were to go through the invasive surgery or radiation this would put her under an incredible amount of stress for such an aged bunny.
2) the surgery would require opening up the rib cage and operating to remove the tumour which is very close to the heart. Therefore extremely high risk, not to mention the risk of anaesthetic and also post surgery pain and fright. Apparently a lot of bunnies due to post surgery trauma as a result of this.
3) radiation would require frequent anaesthesia each treatment and this would weaken her body each time and it will always be a worry if she will wake up after each session. This is also tiring for such an elder bun.
4) from all of the research I've done on this subject, it does sadden me to say that on average most bunnies whether going through radiation or surgery will eventually leave us 4-6 months later after the treatment either way. They typically pass away due to radiation possibly also affecting the heart during treatment or post traumatic stress or GI stasis. Therefore, in my view, as a human - I feel selfish to put poppy through all of the treatments to simply extend her life for a few more months and have her live it in pain or tiredness , just for my sake of not being able to be without her and to have her with me for a few more months. In addition, bearing in mind Poppy's age - any of the above treatments carry an even more heightened risk.

Therefore I chose not to take any serious treatments and instead opted for a method that would 
make her as comfortable and happy as possible for however long she chooses to stay with me for.

The vet gave her an aspiration which led to fluid coming out and this worked really well as the removal of the excess fluid using a fine needle meant that less pressure was on her eyes (no more bulging of both eyes!) caused by fluids being pushed to her brain in her body caused by the growth of the cancer.

The vet then prescribed me diuretics to give poppy twice a day indefinitely. Currently at 2.5ml. It does wonders!
I have to say 2 months later, poppy is jumping around as if she was still a baby and her eyes are back to normal and she is taking her medicine regularly which is great.
She really is having a fantastic time with me and I can tell she is happy and glad to be with me back at home where she belongs.
All I can say is that poppy is a fighter and a survivor. Sometimes it's so touching that just by pure will power and the desire to live, animals with terrible diseases like cancer can pull through day by day and continue living happily. 

I will update you all again soon!


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## Pops (Jul 7, 2013)

Rabbit_friend - please do let me know how the follow up of your bunny goes! Your story gives me hope even if we both chose different treatments for our bunnies  I sincerely hope that your bunny beats the nasty disease!


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## Pops (Nov 8, 2013)

Hows your rabbit @ Rabbit_friend?

My poppy is still doing well. Its been now 6.5 months since she was diagnosed and she's still coping well with the diuretics and is going strong!

Has anyone else also got any experience? or thoughts?


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## Friday_Witch (Apr 30, 2014)

We have been diagnosed today with thymoma, doc says she need a CT + fluid out or radiation, but on her X-Ray it doesn't seems like there is fluid (looks like it's a solid tissue)...

I'm so scared and IDK what is best thing to do. We wouldn't know its thymoma, but she suddenly starts loosing all her hairs and doc says its mites or sebacious adenitis. Since treatment for mites doesn't worked, I take her to vet again and they decided to do X-Ray for thymoma before biopsy, and we found pretty big one. So no biopsy (anesthesia is a big risk).

I don't know what to do, she is just 7 and I want her to live longer, so I don't know which choice is best. Dr. Saver thinks radiation is better choice, she say she wouldn't expect more then year on steroid. I'm afraid if she will not survive radiation, on the other hand, steroids mean that one day she still will die from respiration problems and she will be in pain.


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## Pops (Jun 8, 2014)

Hi Friday_witch, I am sorry to hear about your 7 year old bun! Mine was around 7 as well when she was first diagnosed. Symptoms were: bulging of both eyes and heavy breathing including coughing/sneezing.

Poppy is still doing well and she is reaching 9 years old this November!!!  

I understand your worries about not knowing what the best decision is, I would suggest having a good conversation with your vet first.

There are many options as you said, but I think given the age of your bunny you needs to consider whether some of the options are fair to her. For example radiotherapy is very invasive and it's a tiring and painful process for her. Also the survival rate is not that high especially for older bunnies, they eventually pass away sooner or later due to pain or freight because of the procedures and also other tumours could grow.

The other option of surgery again is painful and not worth putting a 7 year old rabbit through in my opinion. 

Basically for me, I chose to give my rabbit the most comfortable treatment which is to just take diuretics to control the production of liquid which puts pressure on her lungs, and I also occasionally take her to the vet (every 3-6 months) for an aspiration where the excess liquid can be drained.

This helps her breathing and makes her eyes not to bulge.

As long as she is comfortable, happy, bouncing around and willing to eat lots then I am confident she is not in pain.

I hope my story helps you decide what's the best course!

Obviously each case is different, but I have to say that when we were first diagnosed with Thymoma's cancer, the vet told me Poppy wouldn't last for more than 4 months after diagnosis. Now it has been more than 1 year of just taking diuretics and having occasional aspiration and so the vet is very surprised! In fact my rabbit is more energetic and happy than before. 

Keep me updated on how your bun is doing!


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## rabbit_friend (Nov 10, 2015)

Sorry I didn't see the request for an update earlier. My bunny had a followup xray in August 2013 that showed his thymoma was still in remission (hadn't grown any). His radiation treatments were completed in January, so this was 7 months after end of treatment. We had to drive 2 hours for the followup, and since he seemed stressed with small poops before the trip, I almost didn't take him, but I wanted to see how the thymoma was doing. I wsh we'd stayed home, because after that trip he got eye ulcers and an ear infection and went downhill with the stress of antibiotic treatments over the next month. He died in mid-October.

The necropsy showed no signs of thymoma, but did show very leathery lung tissue (pulmonary fibrosis) which was said to be from the radiation. He had labored breathing for a day before and then very suddenly and unexpectedly went into cardiopulmonary failure shortly after I brought him to the table for his meds. 

I am stil glad I opted for the radiation, since the 4 treatments were much easier on him than twice-daily medicating would have been. But as I said before, he had expert anesthesia -- eating as soon as I put him in the car for the trip home. I was not ready to let him go at his first diagnosis. The radiation bought us 8 months of lots of snuggle time and coming to terms with the fact that he would leave us. That was priceless. My only regret is that I think he would have lived longer if I had not taken him in for a followup, and if I had known better what supportive care to give him. A comment by my vet that oral fluids were safer than subcutaneous fluids made me switch my protocol to oral fluids, when subq fluids had always helped him so much. Since he had symptoms of stasis his final two days, giving him subq fluids might have pulled him over the hump.

His widow developed respiratory problems about the same time he did, and I found some mold growing in a vent near where they both slept. His widow has continued to have respiratory problems for the past two years and has just been diagnosed with a possible thymoma as well. This leaves me wondering if environmental stressors that stimulate the thymus gland may play a role in thymoma becoming a relatively common problem in pet bunnies today (or at least not uncommon any more, as was previously thought).


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## Friday_Witch (Nov 10, 2015)

Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately, my baby died this June. We did radiation treatment in summer 2014, and her breathing got much better. But everything else became much worse. Soon after all radiation session she developed odd walk (constant kicking of back paws), stopped using a litter box (she was very accurate before and suddenly no litter box at all), she had bad appetite, then in March she got some strange seizures (Cat scan show nothing) - like she was getting panic attacks and hitting herself against walls really bad. Radiation treatment ruined her little body, then her appetite declined in May, after which she got really soft poops, stopped eating, and despite treatment died on my hands in pain.

We did all radiation in AMC in Manhattan (it cost us about 10k, so it's not like we chose stupid clinic). I horribly regret for being selfish and not euthanizing her. Her last days were really bad and she was my child. I hate myself for choosing radiation - she wasn't herself after that and her health was a nightmare).

So if someone would ask me, I won't recommend it for older bunnies (she was 7 when diagnosed and 8 when died).

My grief is enormous, but the worst thing is that I hate myself for all decisions I made, I was bad mom, I was supposed to protect her from pain and I didn't.


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## rabbit_friend (Nov 10, 2015)

Hi Friday_Witch,
I was replying to Pops, but I'm glad you posted and I know all too well the feelings you have about your baby and how you feel you failed her. The unfortunate thing with bunnies is that even when we do our best and have the best intentions, they often do end up in pain and die badly, just because nobody really knows all that much about them still, and what is exactly the right thing to do in each case. I just lost a bunny two weekends ago to respiratory failure and am heartbroken and second-guessing all the what-ifs and shoulda-coulda-wouldas. I've had other bunnies die badly too, some after I took advice that was wrong from vets I trusted, even when my own research told me not to listen to them.

The bad thing is that although bunnies are very fragile and can go downhill in a heartbeat, they are also immensely strong and people everywhere have tales of how much their bunnies have fought to stay alive and how much they have been willing to put up with to do so. Your bunny must have shown signs of wanting to live and of being up to radiation for you to have chosen that option. I saw the video online of a bunny with that hind-leg flicking thing after radiation and it scared me, but the people I talked to didn't have that experience with radiation with their bunnies, so I took heart. Most bunnies don't have much trouble with radiation, at least until much later. Who knows if it was a bad radiation session, too much stress, or something else in her system or makeup that gave your bunny side-effects. What is certain, though, is that you couldn't have known in advance what the effects might be. None of us have that much-desired crystal ball.

It sounds like you did have many more months with her, even though her health and behavior were different in some ways. Was she still affectionate and desiring affection from you? Did she have more good days than bad? It sounds like she was still eating pretty well until the following May. That is a long time. Make a list of the ways her life improved or stayed the same after radiation -- yes, there will always be negatives but if you ask a disabled or chronically ill person would they choose to die instead, most would say no. When we make medical decisions for ourselves, we sometimes choose treatments that aren't pleasant just so that we can have more time with loved ones and enjoying this earth.

Also, there are so many things that can affect bunnies -- e. cuniculi, pasteurella, parasites, infections. It could just be that her illness and the stress of it brought some of these up and that they would have happened even without radiation. The frustrating thing is that you will never know what WOULD have happened had you not done the radiation. I think about that with my bunny -- what if I'd just tried prednisolone, as a lot of bunnies do? But because my bunny's mass was so large and solid (not cystic), radiation really was the best option, and it sounds like it appeared that way for your bunny too. My bunny was 6 years old, but I've had a dwarf bunny who lived to 13.5 years, so I considered him young enough to go for it. And I knew his personality. I knew he wouldn't have wanted me to give up on him so soon.

The other thing to focus on is the 7 years you had with your bunny before she became ill. Being willing to spend that much money on your bun shows what a caring and devoted mother you were to her for all those years, and I assume her health was good from how you describe her after the radiation. Most bunnies don't live beyond 3-4 years (sadly) because they are in households that don't research or know much about bunnies, and they die pretty miserable deaths from stasis or an infection that could be easily cured if the people would just take them to a vet. But so many don't. So although her last year may not have been as you wished it, she had many more good ones than that just by being in your care. 

I am struggling at the moment with my little dwarf girl who also has breathing difficulties and a possible thymoma, and going through all those decisions again. Do I give her medications that might have side-effects, do I continue to bring her on the table for meds twice a day even though she hates it, or should I just pts? She has lost a lot of weight, but she is still feisty, comes running (while wheezing) for treats, and grooms and is groomed by her husbun. How can I take her life away when I don't know how much she is really suffering, or is willing to suffer just for one more snuggle or salad?

If you search for rabbit and euthanasia or quality of life, you might find some helpful pages. I would highly recommend reading the two I've listed below, since I have used them not only to guide my decisions but to come to terms with decisions I've made in the past. Also, remember that anything you have gone through, even if you do decide you've made bad decisions, will help you in the future with other rabbits, or advising other people about their rabbits. It may even help you advise or make difficult decisions for the humans in your life. Whatever you ultimately decide to do with or learn from the experience, I sympathize, because in the school of life, it's one of the steepest tuitions you'll ever pay.


"Quality of Life" http://www.rabbit.org/journal/2-8/quality-of-life.html
"When did you put YOUR rabbit down?" http://www.bunspace.com/forum/thread?tid=16943&posts_tgp_no=1&posts_tgp_limit=10


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## Pops (Nov 10, 2015)

Good news is that...I'm pleased to say Poppy is still very much alive! She is still very energetic and happy, bouncing around and very active.

In fact, Poppy will be 10 years old next week. Time flies! It's been nearly 3 years since she was first diagnosed with Thymoma cancer. During the last 3 years, she has been having 2x 0.25ml Diuretics daily. She has also had a few aspirations under anaesthetic in order to drain the fluids accumulating in her chest that had caused her eyes to subsequently bulge. 

I think she had 2-3 aspirations in total since diagnosis, so once every 6 months.

But she has not had an aspiration for the last 1 year as the vet said the last time he did it, there was hardly any fluid extracted. So she doesn't need it anymore. Also, her eyes have returned back to normal completely and they do not bulge now. It's very strange but the diuretics and previous aspirations appear to have helped enormously. Whilst the tumour is still large and there, her quality of life has remained good, and I think the cancer is stable and controlled.

I have to say, I think I am very lucky though because, Poppy also had a near death experience this summer as she had a dental abscess growing that became infected. But she is also fine now again, eating and drinking normally after I had to administer antibiotics every day for 2 months.

Each time she went for vet check ups, every 6 months, the vet did X-rays and saw the tumour had grown more since the first diagnosis, and it has pushed her windpipe up against the spine, however even the vet is very surprised that Poppy is still very active and running around all the time. He is surprised she can still breathe and live, given her wind pipe is pushed so far! I have also seen the X-rays which do show her tumour still being there, but it's strange, she seems to be very happy and comfortable. There are no obvious external signs that the tumour is still there actually. No one understands how Poppy can still be alive, when all the X-rays show that she has cancer!

I think, sometimes with these things, it really depends on the individual animal's fight to live and strength. I think with Poppy - I am very lucky she is a fighter and continues to live a very pain free, happy and energetic life. In fact, I think she becomes more active and happy as she gets older!

Hope you find hope with my experience. Have faith.

X


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## doodlebugger (Nov 26, 2015)

We had a female Flemish Giant who passed away at the age of two from a thymoma. She acted perfectly normal until the day before and then she was just less active that day than usual. The day that she passed, I had left to do some errands, and there was really nothing that stood out to me as unusual other than she was just less active than normal. By the time I got home, she was not able to get up at all, and I rushed her to the vet who told me that her thymoma was too far advanced for them to do anything that could help her. We were going to put her to sleep, but she passed on her own shortly after that. I'm glad to hear that some of you were able to extend your time with your bunnies or at the very least, help them not to suffer. I'm sorry to those of you whose bunnies crossed over the rainbow bridge.


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## Margarita (Nov 26, 2015)

Praying for you and your little one. ray:


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## VickyCam (Feb 8, 2019)

Hi all,

I've just found this thread as I started lo0king online following the diagnosis of my rabbit today. He's 8. Vet thinks that it's not worth operating. She has given me pills normally given to cats to handle the pressure, and she told me to go back in 3 months. How long did Poppy and the others live following the diagnosis? I'm crushed


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## RWAF (Feb 9, 2019)

is your vet certain it's cancer? Have antibiotics been tried in case it's an abscess?

There is a useful article about thymoma in rabbits in a past issue of Rabbiting On magazine. It's the winter 2016 issue listed here https://shop.rabbitwelfare.co.uk/pr...fer-1-copy-of-a-back-issue-spring-13-onwards/


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## TreasuredFriend (Feb 9, 2019)

Our girl lived 7-8 months after her thymoma diagnosis. 

Regina had a wonderful life in our family room - prior to the thymoma affecting her QOL toward the end. Based on her disinterest in eating, her fur loss, and overall slowdown, we knew when the final act of love would require a PTS . I forget the oral analgesic that our DVM recommended for pain; tramadol? Regina was approx. 8-9 y.o. when diagnosed; captured as a stray.

I send you tons of support, and please give your girl as much TLC as you can.


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