# Convincing my dad to let me breed rabbits...



## Hill-Hutch (Jun 6, 2012)

I'm having the hardest time convincing my dad to let me breed rabbits!

I told him that I would pay for the rabbits, cages, equipment, food,vet bills,ect and that if I joined the ARBA, I could quite possibly get a scholarship (I'm 13).

I'm not really sure why he won't let me, but he has threatened to kill all 5 of the families rabbits.

Me and my mom are the only ones who ever take care of the rabbits. My little sister just sits around the house. She never goes out and feeds them, holds her rabbit, or cleans the cages!

I personally think that if anyone in my house is capable of running a rabbit operation, it would be me and my mother.

Anyway, what do you guys think? Any advice?

Thank you!

~Sydnie


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## MiniLopHop (Jun 6, 2012)

I know you would do an awesome job and take great care of all the rabbits, but you might want to reconsider the idea. Particularly with death threats from your dad, that is a rather extreme reaction on his part.

Look at petfinder. There are so many rabbits out there without homes. They are the third most euthanised pet in the US. Do you really want to add to the problem? There are only so many bun-friendly homes out there. Plus, you can never guarentee one of your babies wouldn't end up there. Something to think about.


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## Kipcha (Jun 6, 2012)

I do agree with Brandy, I would be worried about every having my bunnies like that with death threats against them. Your dad is obviously extremely opposed. And there are so many bunnies out there that need homes...

May I ask why it is that you want to breed? Is there a reason? Or would it just be a hobby?


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## ZRabbits (Jun 6, 2012)

I think it would be an excellent avenue to get involved in. 4-H does wonders. Actually my Rabbits Savvy Vet's bunnies helped him pay for college. He always loved animals and bunnies helped him get there. 

You and your Mom should sit down, do some research, and get your ducks in a row, and show your Dad what benefits it can have for you. And maybe it will stop the death threats of your bunnies, (shame an adult would say that) showing him the benefit of a bunny business. Show him the Money!With the help of another adult, your mom, I think you can convince him to allow you to start.

Just to let you know, I know this is a "Pet" forum, leaning towards "Rescue Pets", but there are other avenues for a rabbit. Not just pets. 

Wishing you luck! Hoping for the best. Shame adults don't really look at the benefits of having a responsible child wants to actually DO SOMETHING with his life!

K


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## Hill-Hutch (Jun 6, 2012)

My mom did admit that my dad was rather drunk the night he said that.

It would be a small hobby, but I also extremely interested in genetics, as well as showing rabbits. I really want to try line breeding and join ARBA & the ISRBA.


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## ZRabbits (Jun 6, 2012)

*Hill-Hutch wrote: *


> My mom did admit that my dad was rather drunk the night he said that.
> 
> It would be a small hobby, but I also extremely interested in genetics, as well as showing rabbits. I really want to try line breeding and join ARBA & the ISRBA.



Some adults say strange things that they don't mean.

You will have a blast learning genetics. I think it's very interesting. And there are many people who LOVE the shows, and enjoy a lasting membershing with ARBA. 

All of you should go to a show. Talk to people. Find out how they started and how they picked their breeds. Heck, you can even try to bring back an endangered or threatened breed of rabbit. A thread started shows a few that I think would be great to see come back. 

K


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## agnesthelion (Jun 6, 2012)

Karen gave you some great advice! I think what the other posters were leading on to is that breeding rabbits is a serious venture and not to be taken lightly or as idea of "the moment"'and then forgotten about later if you should get bored with it. And of course the well being of the buns should be considered too.

But it sounds like you are serious about this and have done your homework. Good for you for being passionate about something fulfilling and educational!!! I say continue your research and, for lack of a better way to say it, "prove" to your dad how serious you are and show him what you have learned and what you will put into this. 

But ultimately, you do have to respect your parents wishes. It's just part of being a kid. We were all there once too!  I wish you the best!!


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## MiniLopHop (Jun 6, 2012)

*Hill-Hutch wrote: *


> My mom did admit that my dad was rather drunk the night he said that.
> 
> It would be a small hobby, but I also extremely interested in genetics, as well as showing rabbits. I really want to try line breeding and join ARBA & the ISRBA.



Alcohol makes people say and do horrible things. He would never get drunk enough to honestly kill them would he? That would be beyond horrible.

I agree with Lisa, just trying to make sure this is well thought out. Do you have a reliable plan for what to do with the babies? Do you have the space to split them up when they are weaned before they have homes?

I was involved with 4-H and FFA growing up. It can be a wonderful experience, but bringing life into an already crowded world is something to really think about.


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## woahlookitsme (Jun 6, 2012)

I love my rabbit hobby! I am so glad I chose this with my mother also joining in. Becareful about your dad and it sounds like you are serious. Definitely go to a show and experience the mayhem. Shows are a great way to find buyers for rabbits but it also depends on how popular your breed is in that area. I found that the more i went to shows and the better the rabbits did the more i had to expand my resources (as far as getting a website and more cages to keep up with how many people wanted my tans). I am going to compete nationally for my first time and I already have three people interested in my stock for that show that isnt until october. So as far as finding out how to find buyers the show world is pretty good so you wont have to find as many pet homes.

We started raising californians for FFA with a 3hole hutch. My dad wasnt very happy idea but he thought it would only last my senior year. I won Reserve Grand Champion meat pen and a $5,500 dollar check to go towards my first semester in college. Our school ISD supports the FFA kids really well and surrounding businesses love helping out. After that my dad was more open to it and after a show in Kansas I found my first pair of tans and the hobby has grown to two different breeds currently and about 20 holes. We are small compared to most breeders but once the trophies and ribbons started coming home from shows there was no way my dad was going to discourage my success. Raising rabbits has become a huge part of my life and although there is almost no gain of profit except when you are youth the younger you start the higher chance to collect school money. Arba requires you to be a member for 3 consecutive years before you can apply for a scholarship

I am totally for showing but you must see it longterm and have somewhere to expand because once you have one breed chances are another would follow. Others can agree with me on that Lol!


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## LakeCondo (Jun 6, 2012)

I don't know. It's an old saying: Vino veritas, which means in wine there is truth & surely the same applies to vodka, beer, or whatever. Not that he'd actually kill them, but that he doesn't like them. I'd suggest having a heart-to-heart, just you & your dad, before going any farther. You don't want to make it look to him like you & your mom are ganging up on him.

A good first step might be to see if your sister would sell her rabbit to you. Or you could offer to take care of it in exchange for her doing some of your other chores.

How did you get rabbits in the 1st place?


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## Hill-Hutch (Jun 6, 2012)

What kind of rare breeds do you guys suggest? I'm really interested in Americans and American chinchillas, but for now, my max weight as far as rabbits is 6-7 pounds.
I'll probably end up shipping them from out of state, so any sort of suggestions for shipping would be greatly welcomed!

I really want something that would wow judges and interest a lot of potential buyers, but I don't want dwarfs because I don't want to risk does dieing during birthing and I really don't want to have to worry about peanuts. I'm also looking for something that is generaly very kid friendly and nice because I have little cousin's and I'm sure most of my buyers for now will be 4-H kids and a few friends.

Like I said, I'd be more than happy to ship, though I'd like to keep to breeders within the western united states.


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## Hill-Hutch (Jun 6, 2012)

LakeCondo- my sister and I do 4-H, we started with 3 and now we have 5 cause our 2 chinchilla lops had kits.


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## woahlookitsme (Jun 7, 2012)

Im looking on arba at the breeds and ill name what i see less at shows. They will also be either 7-8lbs or lighter max weight.

Silver
Standard chinchilla
Lilac
Himalayan
Thrianta

10lbs and under?
American sable
Silver marten

Unfortunately all the more rare or Critical breeds are big rabbits such as the creme d'argent, blanc de hotot, beveren, American and giant chins


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## Hill-Hutch (Jun 7, 2012)

Hmm... these are all such beautiful rabbits you've listed for me!
when we started thinking about getting rabbits, the Himalayan was the kind that I wanted.

I'm stuck between the standard chinchilla, silver martin, the Beveren, and the American.
Any advice?

I've also kinda figured out a way to convince my dad to let me breed rabbits. If anyone would like to hear it, please let me know and I'll post it!


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## Bonnie Lee (Jun 7, 2012)

I think it's amazing that you want to learn into genetics and line breeding at such a youn age and it good to see you are so motivated

but you do need to think about if you can mentally cope with breeding as for if you happen to come across any deformaties who is going to humanely put the kit down and how well can you cope with still births. Also the fact of getting attached I have just had my first litter and I am considering keeping all 3 kits as I can't see myself letting go so breeding may not be my fortay if I can't give them up althoughmy breed isquite in demand and I'll definately have homes wanting them lol

but I definately think you are quite mature and know what you want to do and I can see you have done your research  good luck with what decision you end up making or which breed you end up choosing


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## Hill-Hutch (Jun 7, 2012)

Thank you Bonnie Lee!

It may seem sad, but I've actually dealt with still born baby animals before. We've had 2 accidental litters since we've gotten our rabbits. The first litter survived and I now have Min as well as his naughty brother,D.B. During the time period we were to care for the 6 kits, I refused to get attached. They were cute and all, and I have pictures of them, but when they all went to their new homes, since there was no attachment, I was actually pretty happy to see them go off to there new homes. Mins story it actually kind of a sad one. He was my older sisters rabbit and there was still no extreme emotional attachment, until she started neglecting him and he started getting sick. My mom took him away from her and placed him in my care, since I was doing so well with Fuzzy. Now I love him just as much as Fuzzy!

Our second litter was the does very first litter. None of them survived.
My grandpa is also a cattle rancher. Every calving season, there are at least 3-4 still born or frozen calf's, while it is sad, after 13 years around it, I've accepted that it wasn't that particular time for that animal to be a live and so God took it back until it was ready. I've also accepted that the ones with deformities will be happier and not suffering if they are put down humanely.

I'm something of a humanitarian and I only want what would be best for my rabbits!


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## ZRabbits (Jun 7, 2012)

Very mature thinking for a young man! I wish you all the luck. 


K


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## Hill-Hutch (Jun 7, 2012)

Thank you Karen! (p.s.-I'm a girl  )

I'll keep you guys posted on the situation!


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## MiniLopHop (Jun 7, 2012)

I am partial to American Chinchilla, but that is a large bun. My Cosette was such a sweetie. Larger buns tend to be more laid back (huge generality). They do need more space, food, etc.


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## Hill-Hutch (Jun 7, 2012)

I really want to do the American and the Beveren, and maybe if you mom wants, I can buy another mini lop doe and I'll have Min and popcorn too, so that would make up my trio.

I'd probably start with the Beverens, there are several breeders within the western united states, theres even one over here in Idaho!

I'm I get the Beverens going good, maybe I'll start a small line of Mini Lops using only agoutis (Mins chinchilla and Popcorn is a Broken Chocolate Chestnut Agouti.
My mom really wants to breed NDs, but I told her "No way am I dealing with peanuts and birthing complications!" So I might set out on a search to find a breeder with quality NDs and import one from out of state for her for her birthday, if I can talk my dad into letting me get more rabbits.

ATM, my plan is to talk him into letting me do the Beverens, Mini Lops, or Americans for a 4-H breeding project. I'll probably invest in the Beveren or the American, because they are rare and expensive so I'll be putting a lot of money in it. If he ever brings up getting rid of them (in the event that he is OK with it as a breeding project), I'll just tell him that it would have been a waste of money and that he should let me keep breeding them for the project. Eventually everything will become so routine he'll end up forgetting about it, like always, and then I can full on start operations.

My mom is totally fine with me breeding rabbits, just so long as I pay for everything and she can hold the babies.


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## agnesthelion (Jun 7, 2012)

Sydnie....you've gotten more great advice on here. I just wanted to say that for 13 your typing and dialogue skills are amazing. You "sound" much older than just 13. You sound like a very smart young lady and you seem very sincere about your new venture. I wish you the best of luck!


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## ZRabbits (Jun 7, 2012)

*Hill-Hutch wrote: *


> Thank you Karen! (p.s.-I'm a girl  )
> 
> I'll keep you guys posted on the situation!



My sincere apologies. 

You go Girl! 

K


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## Nelsons_Mom (Jun 7, 2012)

While I admire your passion, and you seem to have a realistic view on what to expect, I am a little worried.

First off, though I do not doubt your maturity, you are 13. Therefore, you are not legally able to work. Is doing odd jobs really going to be enough to cover all of the vet bills of your current rabbits and your breeding stock? All of the food? Cages? Toys?

Also, rabbits can live for over ten years, but you're going to be going away to college in five. Will you have to disassemble your rabbitry after just a few years? Or leave your mother to take care if it on her own?

Also, interests change a lot at your age. I am not trying to say that you are not dedicated, but socially things start to really pick up around your age. Are you willing to sacrifice that time with friends because you will have so many animals to care for?

I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic. Just wanting to make sure that you are weighing all of the options. And, I am sure that some of my concern is that I do not see rabbits as live-stock, like they are treated a lot of times in 4-h.


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## Hill-Hutch (Jun 7, 2012)

I do appreciate you bringing these questions up Nelsons_Mom!
During the summer I babysit my cousins at least once a week and I earn anywhere between $5 and $20 every time I watch them. I also fill in fir my older sister babysitting my other cousins whenever she is out of town or a judo. I earn $20 for half a day and $40 for a whole day. I'll also be saving up my premiums from 4-H shows.
Breeding rabbits isn't something I'm planning on doing this year, or even next year.

I also live in a college town, so I'll be attending ISU, which is right across town.

I do not think of my rabbits as just livestock, they are my pets.
I am quite interested to hear how you view having rabbits, as opposed to the way 4-H sees them.


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## Nelsons_Mom (Jun 7, 2012)

Hill-Hutch wrote:


> I do appreciate you bringing these questions up Nelsons_Mom!
> During the summer I babysit my cousins at least once a week and I earn anywhere between $5 and $20 every time I watch them. I also fill in fir my older sister babysitting my other cousins whenever she is out of town or a judo. I earn $20 for half a day and $40 for a whole day. I'll also be saving up my premiums from 4-H shows.
> Breeding rabbits isn't something I'm planning on doing this year, or even next year.
> 
> ...



I'm glad you've thought of those things, too! It shows a lot of understanding of what you are truly undertaking.

I'm not against showing rabbits, or the breeding of them necessarily from pedigreed lines that have had a low rate or health problems to better the breed and the temperament of that breed. It's just when I think of 4h rabbits, I think of them on wire mesh floor stacked on top of each other inside of a barn as livestock, not as appreciated members of a family. Not saying that people who keep their rabbits that way do not love and care for them, I just couldn't imagine how impersonal that would be or how it would diminish a lot of the things that I love about keeping rabbits (seeing them binky around the room and cuddling up for a movie together).


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## Hill-Hutch (Jun 7, 2012)

Our first 3 rabbits came from a breeder who didn't really know what she was doing care wise. They are absolutely spoiled now! They are allowed to run around the yard or in a box we made for them.

I'm sure that,especially with my mom helping and my bunny loving friends around, any breeding stock we have will be just as spoiled as our pet buns! Lol!

I do plan on buying those stackable wire cages and modifying them with pieces of plywood and they will each get to have outside time to play and be silly.


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## LakeCondo (Jun 7, 2012)

As you seem to be a long-term thinker, you'll probably want to think about spaying the does after their breeding days are over. It will lengthen their lives by eliminating their chances of uterine cancer.


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## Hill-Hutch (Jun 7, 2012)

Thanks for the advice Orlena!
What age do you suggest would be best to stop breeding a doe and spaying her?


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## woahlookitsme (Jun 8, 2012)

Breeding does stop producing litters at 3-4 years of age.

We have a doe that is actually 5 years old estimated that is still living happily. We have not invested in spaying her as she has no behavioral problems and is in good health except for maybe being slightly overweight. Also her age is a big concern and although I work at an animal clinic that could alter her, I do not want to put her under for a spay. I wish my mom would allow me to keep her because I want to see how long she will live without being spayed. I agree for a pet home it would be more beneficial if she was already spayed but you do want to think about what you will do with your breeding stock that gets older and is unable to produce anymore. I love all of my starting stock and would love to keep them all but to have a rabbitry means keeping productive animals. I will most likely find homes for mine but I know it will be a hard process because most people want young and cute bunnies with years to live. 

As far as finding dwarfs for your mom. Make sure she understands that breed is definitely not a cheap one and also very competitive in quality of the rabbits. My mom raised himis before her polish and they are the sweetest rabbits ever but so hard to find homes and show people because their demand is very unpredictable


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## ZRabbits (Jun 9, 2012)

*woahlookitsme wrote: *


> Breeding does stop producing litters at 3-4 years of age.
> 
> We have a doe that is actually 5 years old estimated that is still living happily. We have not invested in spaying her as she has no behavioral problems and is in good health except for maybe being slightly overweight. Also her age is a big concern and although I work at an animal clinic that could alter her, I do not want to put her under for a spay. I wish my mom would allow me to keep her because I want to see how long she will live without being spayed. I agree for a pet home it would be more beneficial if she was already spayed but you do want to think about what you will do with your breeding stock that gets older and is unable to produce anymore. I love all of my starting stock and would love to keep them all but to have a rabbitry means keeping productive animals. I will most likely find homes for mine but I know it will be a hard process because most people want young and cute bunnies with years to live.
> 
> As far as finding dwarfs for your mom. Make sure she understands that breed is definitely not a cheap one and also very competitive in quality of the rabbits. My mom raised himis before her polish and they are the sweetest rabbits ever but so hard to find homes and show people because their demand is very unpredictable


Excellent advise Sarah. Anyone who thinks of starting a rabbitry should have these thoughts and plans in place before even starting. Still thinking and planning. It's my responsibility to my rabbits. True commitment. 

Regarding, older breed stock vs young cute. Young cute will win. I got mine young because I wanted to experience a bunny. True novice. But I have to say, now that I'm more in tuned with bunnies, experience getting to know an older bunny is something I would definitely consider in the future. 

And what Sarah says about the dwarfs is true. Regarding expense, quality and unpredictable in demand. I'm going very slowly with my Lion heads. Though I like them, they are not ARBA recognized, and not for everyone as a pet. Just being responsible. Cautious. Maybe too cautious, but that's just me. 

Look forward to hearing your future Rabbitry plans. Truly wishing you all the luck.

K


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## Hill-Hutch (Jun 9, 2012)

Hmm... it sounds like Frosty is getting to the age of spaying, she is about 3 and she has only had 7 kits, 5 of which are alive and well. She's only had 2 litters.

I'm considering doing therapy rabbits with my older, more docile and affectionate rabbits. As for non-therapy rabbits, I'm thinking of maybe starting a project if I get into breeding rabbits.
Maybe talk some of the local breeders into visiting schools with me and my buns to talk about rabbits, rabbit care, breeding, ect. And perhaps start a rabbit 4-H club, when I'm old enough and if I have my own rabbitry, of course!

As for a rabbit for my mom, I'm trying to decide between NDs, Holland Lops, and Dwarf Hotots. She likes all of them, but I'm not sure wich one would be best.

She isn't looking to breed them, she just wants something little, that stays little.


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## ZRabbits (Jun 9, 2012)

*Hill-Hutch wrote: *


> Hmm... it sounds like Frosty is getting to the age of spaying, she is about 3 and she has only had 7 kits, 5 of which are alive and well. She's only had 2 litters.
> 
> I'm considering doing therapy rabbits with my older, more docile and affectionate rabbits. As for non-therapy rabbits, I'm thinking of maybe starting a project if I get into breeding rabbits.
> Maybe talk some of the local breeders into visiting schools with me and my buns to talk about rabbits, rabbit care, breeding, ect. And perhaps start a rabbit 4-H club, when I'm old enough and if I have my own rabbitry, of course!
> ...


Hotots are pretty little bunnies. They get to be around 2 llbs. But ND and Hollads are sweet bunnies too. I don't think you will go wrong with any of these three for your Mom to have a sweet little companion.

And all of your ideas regarding your bunnies, really sound good. Hoping you succeed. 

K


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## Hill-Hutch (Jun 9, 2012)

At the moment, I'm almost kinda thinking about getting her a Holland. I think the judge at the state fair last year said he breeds them, so maybe if he's there this year, I'll talk to him and ask him a few questions.


Its a good thing you guys bring stuff like aging buns and college, because I would never have really thought of these kinds of things until after I started breeding! My ideas come on the spot after you guys ask questions or make comments about things I should think about!


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## Nelsons_Mom (Jun 9, 2012)

Hill-Hutch, I just wanna say you're awesome!

I am very active on a rat forum and I have seen grown adults get angry, defensive, and throw a fit when asked the sort of "thinking into the future" questions everyone here has posed.

You handled it with style, grace, and gratitude. It makes me very happy to think that there are still teenagers like you around c:


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## woahlookitsme (Jun 9, 2012)

Basically what I am going to do with my older does is get as many last litters out of them that I can and then replace them with one of their babies when they become unable to produce anymore. I love the idea of therapy buns and actually had some older does go to a retirement home to live happily. 

When I started in my Cals I didn't think about college. At the time I was just showing what was left from my alternates for my FFA show. When I got my tans and wanted to do better in shows with them my mom supported me totally. It was only because of her that I am still raising tans. I am lucky that she found a breed that she liked too although who couldn't when there is 47 breeds to choose from lol. I also agree with Karen all three of those buns make great pets.


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## Hill-Hutch (Jun 10, 2012)

Sarah- Breeding as many litters as I can out of the does, and replacing them with a POL from one of her last 2 litters was what I was thinking of doing too.


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## SnowyShiloh (Jun 10, 2012)

Oh, Sydnie. You sound so excited about this and like you've done lots of planning and have a good idea of what to expect, which is wonderful. Really. I just have great big reservations. My main issue is your father. He does not seem to care for them and what if he really DID kill some of your bunnies? I think he needs to really be behind you on this. It's good your mom is supportive, but Dad needs to be as well. I'm also concerned that you may not have enough money to address any health issues with your buns. Vet bills can be very expensive and I don't think collecting a bit of money from babysitting is going to cover it. Last summer we spent something like $700 to get our boy through a relatively mild bout of head tilt. Then more recently, we spent $500 in one pop to have our bun checked out, euthanized, samples of her lungs examined, meds for our others in case she was contagious, then take 2 of our others to the vet when we were concerned they were showing symptoms. Everything ended up being fine (I mean other than our girl dying of course  ), but vet bills pile up FAST and I'd imagine it would be even more so with rabbits that are having babies. What if your bun needs an emergency c-section or a baby is sick or all your rabbits get sick or something? Part of being responsible is making SURE you have enough money to cover unexpected vet bills, especially since it doesn't sound like your father is going to help you out.

Again, not trying to be a jerk. I see you have lots of supporters of your idea. If your dad was excited for you to start breeding and your parents promised to pay for any vet bills, I would think you should forge on. This isn't criticism of YOU, just concern with the circumstances, you know? Big hugs to ya if you accept hugs from random internet strangers  And I wish you the best of luck with this, truly I do.


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## Hill-Hutch (Jun 10, 2012)

hmm... yes, I do quite understand what you are talking about. I've already dealt with my own bout of deadly illness with my current rabbits. Fuzzy got pasturella last year. We probably spent anywhere between $100-$150 for his meds and the vet visit. The most expensive part was when we had to put him under because he had a fluid pocket under his chin that our vet thought was a cist(spelling?).

Would saving up about... $700 be enough? I estimate that buying a new trio of rabbits would be about $90, and then $300 for cages, $100 for feed racks and water bottles, $15 for commercial pellets, $80 or less for a few nest boxes, and then whatever I have left over will be for vet bills and extra equipment.

I'm doing rather poorly right now, but I've just barely started saving money. I currently have $40/$700. So I've got a ways to go.

Like I said, starting my own rabbitry probably won't happen for another 3 years, and by then, I'll be 16 and can get a small part-time job.


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