# Is it ok for an adult rabbit to eat alfalfa pellets



## Luvmyzoocrew (Sep 21, 2007)

Well i am still bonding Sooty and Belle and we are at the stage taht the pen is attatched to the front of both there cages and they go in adn out of each others cages. I attatch it all day and then lock them up seperately at night till i feel better about leaving them alone with each other. Belle isnt even a year yet and Sooty is between 3-4 , so Belle is on oxbow for the younger buns, and sooty is on the oxbow that is timothy based. When i open there cages, Belle eats Sooty's pellets and he eats hers, is this ok for him? when we got him he was a little on the bony side so i was not worried about it but i am worried he will get too fat. I have more than half a bag of her food left and i dont want to throw it away do you thingk it will be ok till it is gone? should i just feed the alfalfa ones to both to get rid of it quicker?


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## lagadvocate (Sep 21, 2007)

I've found thatsome buns go nuts for the alfalfa pellets, so it's not too surprising that Sooty's going to go after Belle's pellets. But, it could also be a "hey if you have it, I want it" thing since Belle also eats Sooty's pellets.

I feed both of my buns Purina High Fiber pellets which is alfalfa based. They are strictly rationed, and they are definitely what my buns prefer. They've unanimously voted down any type of timmy pellets, much to my chagrin. They are 4 and 5 years old, btw.





> When i open there cages, Belle eats Sooty's pellets and he eats hers, is this ok for him?


I don't think it will hurt him (except maybe some minor flora disturbance because ofa diet change). You could just make sure that they are separated while eating pellets until you are finished with Belle's bag. But then, you may have leisurely eaters like me, which means they like to eat a little, come back for more, repeat. And that can take a while!

:clover:


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## naturestee (Sep 21, 2007)

Alfalfa pellets are fine as long as the rabbit tolerates them and they aren't overweight. Some adults do get excess cecals and poopy butt from alfalfa pellets because they are fairly rich. The Oxbow alfalfa pellets are lower in protein and are actually more similar to the adult maintenance pellets made by breeder brands. As long as you switch the pellets slowly and watch for any cecal problems, the Oxbow alfalfa pellets are fine.


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## MsBinky (Sep 21, 2007)

The problem with alfalfa, is not only that it is rich and fattening. It has a high content of calcium. And that, is the more important factor to look at.

You don't want your bun to have probs with calcium. Another thing, by him getting the nice tasty alfalfa, he may reject his own pellets. It's just like parents giving their kids desert but no veggies. When Belle will be at the right age, she will be weaned off the alfalfa and on to timothy so that will be easier.

Maybe for now, you can remove her pellets and let her have her greens while they play together and when you separate them you can give them each their pellets... That way, they can still enjoy sharing (which is very good that they get used to the idea) and they get to eat healthily without either of them having health issues

This is not to bash anyone. This is just a general word of caution. As a member of the forum, I often hear "well I have never had a problem so far". Please, don't wait for a problem to arise. Oftentimes, by the time that a problem clearly shows, it's already very serious.


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Sep 21, 2007)

see my guys eat pellets all day long not just in one sitting, ack, i will try giving them there pellets at night when i lock them up so that i dont cause any problems. But she better get eating because there are alot of her pellets left,lol.


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## lagadvocate (Sep 29, 2007)

MsBinky wrote:


> This is not to bash anyone. This is just a general word of caution. As a member of the forum, I often hear "well I have never had a problem so far". Please, don't wait for a problem to arise. Oftentimes, by the time that a problem clearly shows, it's already very serious.


Just was wondering what you meant by that...was it that alfalfa pellets are bad in general for adults and that they should only be on timmy? Or am I completely lost (as usual).


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## Pipp (Sep 29, 2007)

MsBinky* wrote: *



> The problem with alfalfa, is not only that it is rich and fattening. It has a high content of calcium. And that, is the more important factor to look at.


Not true, sorry! The only problem with a calcium count would be forbunnies with bladder sludge problems or kidney or bladder stones.

Rabbits do need calcium, a deficiency is also a health issue, and may be even more of a concern.Otherwise it's only a concern if their output is consistently white and chalky, which simply means they're getting more than they need, or 'sludgey', white and thick indicating a UT problem (as does straining to pee). 

Here's the Library section on Urinary issues: (Not all the authors totally agree, choose your sources wisely).

http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=12052&forum_id=10

As for pellets, as Angela indicated, it really is an individual decision -- if you rabbit is overweight,has sludge issues,or doesn't eat much in the way of hay or veggies,then Timothy may be the ticket. 

A rabbit already consuming a high-fibre diet with lots of hay and veggies doesn't need a lot of pellets at all, and alfalfa is fine. 

Skinny bunnies may be better served with alfalfa. And while any bunny can have a food sensitivity to just about anything, the high-protein count in alfalfa pellets is more likely to cause ISS (aka Poopy Butt). 

Here's the Library section on Pellets: 

http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=12160&forum_id=17

MsBinky* wrote: *



> This is not to bash anyone. This is just a general word of caution. As a member of the forum, I often hear "well I have never had a problem so far". Please, don't wait for a problem to arise. Oftentimes, by the time that a problem clearly shows, it's already very serious.



This I agree with. I still remembera discussionI hadwith somebody over a feeding issue where he said: "Oh, I fed my rabbit that all the time, never had a problem." And the guy's rabbit had just died -- of unknown causes.:shock:It may be that the diet item had nothing to do with it, but the statement still struck me as ludicrious.

Feeding your rabbit something and having themappear healthy doesn't mean thatit isn't contributing to fatty liveror heart disease or something internally. 

And just a note for Mods and members alike to pay closer attention to the Library files. Both these sections, put together by Angela :hearts, have stellar info. 


sas


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## MsBinky (Sep 29, 2007)

Sorry for the misinformation. I won't be giving any in the future. My vet actually told me that so I thought he was right. :?Ah well. He's the only vet I got so let's hope my bunnies don't get too sick in the future. Again sorry. I just assumed he was right about it.


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## MsBinky (Sep 29, 2007)

Grrrrrrrrrr lost my post...


For some reason I cannot post my whole message so I will post elsewhere and link and see if that works.


*OKIES sorry I really couldn't post at all :?It's here:*

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=28425&forum_id=48&jump_to=369240#p369240


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## Pipp (Sep 29, 2007)

LOL! Sorry, meant to go back and fix that so I didn't sound so fanatical.  

And I didn't mean to make it sound like you were the only one, this is a very commonly held view, a LOT of vets and well respected bunny orgs distribute this info. 

But as time goes on, new studies have discovered a lot more about these things and the calcium-is-evil mindset is being discredited.

The key is finding middle ground. It's one of my pet peeves (and I really want to name my next pet 'Peeve').An organization pronounces something ... like don't give your rabbits carrots except as treats -- and the next thing you know, carrots are evil. I think halfthe rabbits in the world are being deprived of carrots because of misinterpretations. And because of the interpretations, a lot of rabbits are being deprived of calcium. 

Makes me want to push the pendulum in the other direction. Sorry if I pushed to hardand took you with it! 



sas :biggrin2:


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## MsBinky (Sep 29, 2007)

no, it's not you. I just feel stupid because I try to help and it's always wrong. LOL Anyway, do you mind looking at my other post, this topic really interests me and it will be good knowledge for when I run the shelter as I figure some could benefit from the alfalfa if it is safe 

So it's kinda like our researchers saying everything causes cancer huh?


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## Pipp (Sep 29, 2007)

Weird, I'm getting email notifications with the text. That's a glitch that drives me nuts, but links and text do get eaten, I just posted a note to the software company about that very thing. 

I'll post thetext you're missing: (It's by Susan Smith, 2003 -- and I do love Susan Smith!) The bold is her's, not mine. 

She pretty much says what I'm saying (seeing as she's one of RO's most awesome sources (keeping in mindwe still rely on multiple sources for each subject).

The keys areplenty of hydration and keeping a close eye on output. A bunny with white pee all the time is getting too much calcium. A bunny that doesn't drink much but still spends a lot of time in the litter box has to be checked.

Here's the excerpt from the article: 

_The second special circumstance is for rabbits who have problems metabolizing calcium. This one is still rather a mystery. Rabbits are different from most animals in that their intestinal tract sucks up dietary calcium and puts it into the blood; most other animals (including people) have less efficient absorption of dietary calcium. This normally isnât a problem, because the bunnyâs excess calcium is just excreted in the urine. Rabbits are built to do that. _

_However, this process can go wrong in some rabbits, for reasons we donât understand. An active infection of E. cuniculi may be one such cause; in humans, a urinary tract infection can trigger this. In those bunnies, instead of calcium being sent out the urine, it precipitates in the bladder and/or kidney. This can lead to bladder âsludgeâ and stones, and sometimes kidney calcification. Stones and sludge can be painful to pass, and may increase the risk for urinary tract infections. You can see this if the rabbit is straining to urinate, has urine with a mustard-like consistency, or (in fact) has little-to-no calcium in the urine. (Some calcium powder in the urine is normal and healthy.) _

_We have to emphasize that we donât know what causes this problem, and thus we donât really know how to cure it. Approaches to improve the situation should include a urinalysis to diagnose the problem, a culture-and-sensitivity of the (sterile) urine to identify possible infections, and diet strategies to reduce the burden on the kidneys and bladder. *However, diet strategies should never put the rabbit at risk for calcium or protein deficiency.* This is especially important because rabbits already have fragile bones and cannot afford to lose additional calcium. A diet that is pellet-free and avoids calcium-rich veggies will force your rabbit to draw calcium and protein from precious bone and muscle stores. This puts the rabbit at risk for seizure and death (calcium-deficient tetany), osteoporosis, and bone breakage. Rather than go âcold turkeyâ on the pellets and calcium-containing veggies, you should instead adjust your rabbitâs diet to achieve a proper balance that meets his nutrient needs without over-stressing the urinary tract. This can be done by switching to a lower calcium/protein diet, increasing vegetable intake (for important electrolytes, vitamins, and water), and offering water in a crock to stimulate increased drinking. _

_In summary, to say that âalfalfaâ is bad and âtimothyâ is good misstates the situation. Both types of pellets can provide a diet that is lower in protein and calcium; the key is to read the product label and then offer food quantities and varieties appropriate to your rabbitâs individual nutrient needs. _

_Copyright Susan Smith, 2003

_


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## Pipp (Sep 29, 2007)

Wow, that was some glitch, I couldn't print the whole article either. :shock: Finally copied it into Notepad to strip all the codes. 

And I haven't noticed you being always wrong at all! You're one of our most helpful members! :hug1

sas

*MsBinky wrote: *


> I just feel stupid because I try to help and it's always wrong. LOL


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## MsBinky (Sep 29, 2007)

*Giggles*

Sorry but I was actually giggling at ya while you were trying to get the post to work too. Frustrating huh? LOL Glad you joined me Smart about the Notepad. I didn't think of the coding behind it. 

Thanks I was all happy thinking I had this one right. Lmao. Now I have to change all my info on my website for that section Ah well, glad to learn. Lol.


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