# My Lionhead doe just had babies! Help?



## mtnbossmare (Jun 10, 2013)

Hi all, we got a lionhead doe about a month ago that the breeder told us was probably pregnant and was due within a week or so. The "happy" event never happened in the time frame given, so we thought she hadn't been bred... WRONG! Yesterday morning I got up extremely early for some reason and walked into the living room where our rabbits are and I saw something on the floor... low and behold it was a baby rabbit that had been pushed out of the upper floor to our rabbit hutch (double decker). The baby was fine, thank goodness!

My question is that "mommy" doesn't seem to be in the nest box much. The babies _seem_ fine, but the breeder said that after two days, to pull the babies out and hand feed them... that would be today or tomorrow, depending on how you look at it. He said that for some reason, all of his Lionheads were bad mothers, they would smother them, kick them out of the nest, etc. Is this true that they are bad mothers and we need to pull them? She doesn't seem to me to be "the mother of the year", but I've never had lionheads before, so I'm unsure of what I should do. So far, no more have been pushed from the cage and all 6 of them are in the box and all seem fine. I hate to pull them if this is not a good thing to do. I also don't want to "not listen" to him and lose any babies... IT IS NOT a money thing, it's about them getting to *live*. I'm was a vet tech for 18 years, so I know how to feed them, I am just wondering what everyone thinks. IF, I pulled them, I know they'd be OK and survive as I have hand-raised/fed many a type of animals, but I am wondering if I should. All I know is if any of them die because of me leaving them with her, I will feel absolutely horrible for not listening. Again, the breeder said to pull them and hand feed them after 2 days, that we just want to leave them with her so that they can get the colostrum from "mommy" and then feed them with goat's milk. Any advise??? Thanks to all that answer... Dawn


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## KeltonB (Jun 10, 2013)

I had my own surprise litter not too long ago and got some great advice...check out this thread:

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f27/surprise-litter-hope-i-did-right-thing-73759/

If any of your questions remain unanswered, follow up and I'm sure the great folks here will take care of you.

One thing to add, the mom will NOT spend much time with the babies, just a few minutes in the morning and a few at night...you probably won't even catch her with them. They feed very quickly and then they are gone (this is nature's way of not attracting predators to the nest).

Good luck!

ps - post pictures, we love baby bunnies!


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## KeltonB (Jun 10, 2013)

Just wanted to add a couple of things&#8230;

My litter was to a lionhead mom too, I didn't notice any issues outside what I was told to expect. Rabbits just don&#8217;t spend much time with the babies.

I would not recommend pulling them out. Baby bunnies are especially difficult to hand-raise from what I&#8217;ve read and advice I&#8217;ve received. They stand a much better chance with mom. If their bellies are getting full during feeding, they should be fine in the nest.

It may be a good idea to fortify the side of the pen/cage so the babies don&#8217;t squirm out and fall. I lined mine with cardboard up to a foot or so.

Good luck again!


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## JBun (Jun 10, 2013)

I would recommend not hand feeding them as well. Baby bunnies can be extremely hard to feed and not have them aspirate the liquid. If the mom is absolutely not feeding them, then you could give it a try, If it's been 2 days already, since they were born, and they aren't really wrinkly, skinny, and weak, then she has probably already fed them. When you check them in the morning or night, you should be able to see that they have nice round bellies. You can sometimes even see a ligher area from the milk in the stomach. She'll only feed once or twice a day, early in the morning or late at night, the rest of the time she'll most likely leave them alone. Make sure you are using a nestbox big enough for the mom to hop in to nurse without stepping on the babies(babies should be nestled in a hollow towards the back) but not so big that the babies are scattered everywhere. And it needs sides high enough to keep the babies from wandering out, but low enough that the mom can hop in easily. Also make sure that the babie aren't getting too hot or cold. If it's warm enough in your home, you just want to make sure they don't have a huge pile of fur over them, keeping them too hot. But they do need some fur as well, so they don't get cold. It's also a good idea to check them everyday, to make sure everything is going ok with them.


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## majorv (Jun 10, 2013)

Newborn kits won't survive past 48 hours without being fed, so that would be sometime tonight or early in the morning. Handfeeding newborn kits and keeping them alive is hard and the success rate is low. I would leave them with the mom and make a decision this evening. If they don't look fed I'd pull them and at least give them some milk and/or see if you can put them on the mom to nurse. You just don't want to wait too long or they'll be too weak to suck. Do you know if this is her first litter?


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## tonyshuman (Jun 10, 2013)

Mom rabbits are way better at feeding babies than people. She probably won't just sit on the nest like a chicken would with eggs, and will only go in there to feed or groom the kits. Taking the babies away is pretty much unheard of unless the mom is not feeding them and/or is harming them.


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## woahlookitsme (Jun 10, 2013)

I have actually heard exactly the opposite about lionheads and have heard that they are great mothers. I would advise strongly to not hand rear baby rabbits. In the four years of raising rabbits we have had zero luck in hand raising kits. Google search for pictures on how you know if baby rabbits are being fed and you should find some nice pictures showing big round ping pong bellies. You may only find this once a day either in the early morning or late afternoon but be on the lookout. Like said before babies cannot survive past 48hours without being fed


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## mtnbossmare (Jun 11, 2013)

How can I thank you for all of your answers!!! :kiss1: I feel soooo much better... I hated to have to take them away because I always view my pets as little humans in another form... now before you say "WHOA! Crazy alert!" let me qualify that statement by saying that I put human emotion in all animals and tend to think about how they would feel if I took their babies from them for no real reason. Understand? :biggrin2:

Anyway, thank you for the link, I very much appreciate it and for also telling me that your bunny was a Lionhead as well. Princesss age is 1 and she has had litters before, but the guy took them away from the mommas at day 2 or so he said. Hmmmmmmmm! I looked at babies yesterday and today and all seem of good flesh squirmly little things! Once I heard that they only fed once or twice a day, I literally let out a sigh of relief! That was the one thing that I was wondering if I should step in and supplement the babies!!!  

So a big thank you to KeltonB, JBun, Majory, Tonyshuman, and Woahlookitsme!!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! :happyrabbit:


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## mtnbossmare (Jun 16, 2013)

Hi, all... I am thinking my nesting box is too little or something as we have lost 3 babies for no apparent reason. Kits that are still alive (3) seem OK... but my husband is really upset at the other 3 kits' death... he is wanting to "supplement" their diet by giving them alittle goat's milk. I am on here once again to see what might can be done. I am going this morning to get a bigger nesting box as I think it might be alittle too small and may have contributed to their demise... :-( 

She's about 3 pounds and a little girl, and the current nesting box is about 16" x 12" x 12". Your thoughts again are appreciated. Thanks!


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Jun 16, 2013)

Did the kits seem particularly small or emaciated when they died? Lionheads are a dwarf breed and can have peanuts, which are kits that receive a double dwarfing gene. This is fatal and the kits usually pass away within the first few days. I'm wondering if maybe that's what you're dealing with.

If not, what is the condition of the remaining babies? Is their skin smooth and bellies big, or are they skinny and wrinkly? At this point in time, well-fed babies will be bouncy and active. Starving babies may seem lethargic and inactive.

If you think nutrition is the issue, you could try hand feeding. But I would only recommend that as a very, very last ditch effort. Kittens and puppies can be successfully hand fed with little problem, but it's really difficult to hand raise baby rabbits - even for the most experienced breeder.

Your nestbox sounds like an adequate size for an average Lionhead to me. Nestboxes should be pretty small, just big enough to turn around in. Yours sounds fine to me. If you make the box bigger, the kits could get separated and cold.

If the kits seem to be dying for no reason, another thing you could check for is mastitis. Otherwise, it may be something genetic. Sometimes it's difficult to know for sure.


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## Watermelons (Jun 16, 2013)

Im not sure if this was suggested, but is mom is producing properly, some people will hold the doe down for a few mins and allow the babys to nurse rather then hand feed. Still better for babies. That is, if the issue is her not feeding them.


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## bunnychild (Jun 16, 2013)

mtnbossmare said:


> My question is that "mommy" doesn't seem to be in the nest box much. The babies _seem_ fine, but the breeder said that after two days, to pull the babies out and hand feed them... that would be today or tomorrow, depending on how you look at it. He said that for some reason, all of his Lionheads were bad mothers, they would smother them, kick them out of the nest, etc. Is this true that they are bad mothers and we need to pull them? She doesn't seem to me to be "the mother of the year", but I've never had lionheads before, so I'm unsure of what I should do. So far, no more have been pushed from the cage and all 6 of them are in the box and all seem fine. I hate to pull them if this is not a good thing to do. I also don't want to "not listen" to him and lose any babies... IT IS NOT a money thing, it's about them getting to *live*. I'm was a vet tech for 18 years, so I know how to feed them, I am just wondering what everyone thinks. IF, I pulled them, I know they'd be OK and survive as I have hand-raised/fed many a type of animals, but I am wondering if I should. All I know is if any of them die because of me leaving them with her, I will feel absolutely horrible for not listening. Again, the breeder said to pull them and hand feed them after 2 days, that we just want to leave them with her so that they can get the colostrum from "mommy" and then feed them with goat's milk. Any advise??? Thanks to all that answer... Dawn



Mother rabbits don't stay in the nest very long, because its an instinct in the wild. It attracts predators to the nest. Check their stomachs. If they feel like they have food, then I would leave them with the mother, but with caution of course.


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## woahlookitsme (Jun 16, 2013)

I totally agree with julie. Peanuts in a litter can suddenly die and if you have never seen them before or dont know how to identify them then you can easily have babies that pass with "no clue as to why". Double dwarf gene is unavoidable when breeding dwarf breeds and is always fatal. There could be nothing wrong with mom so keep that possibility in your mind when thinking why.

It is hard to tell if mom is producing properly. At least everytime I have checked moms bellies some have enlarged glands and some dont. Its much better to check on the babies to see if they are getting enough. Remember to look for the ping pong bellies.


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