# Share a bale of hay?



## maherwoman (Aug 11, 2006)

Hey guys...

I have a bit of a problem on my hands. We bought a bale of hay I don't know how long ago, and it is now dry enough that we should consider getting a new one. The main problem is that about 3/4 of the bale has gone unused!! I can't stand to waste things like that, so I'm wondering if anyone in the Southern California area (around the San Fernando Valley) would like to split the cost of a $20 bale of Timothy hay with me. 

Also, anyone have any idea how to go about posting some sort of ad about it somewhere?

Thanks, guys!! 

I would like to do the purchase within the next couple weeks. Also, I'll bump this topic every couple days so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle. 

Hugs!!

Rosie and her bunny-poos (literally and as a pet name, mind you) Maisie and Flower


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## MyBabyBunnies (Aug 11, 2006)

What do you mean it's gone dry enough the you should buy another one? If hay is stored in a cool dry place it will last a year or longer. I still have hay from last year that is very fresh and good still and it will be good for at least another 6 months because it's stored off the ground in a shed and out of direct sun light.

P.S.- WOW! $20 for a bale?! I pay $4.50 at the most.:shock:


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## maherwoman (Aug 11, 2006)

We bought the hay in late May, so it's been about two months that we've had it.

It's a combination of the fact that Maisie's starting to shun it a bit (instead of eating two large handfuls a day, she's gone down to one, and I'm slightly concerned because she won't eat much hay if it's dryer than she'd like), and the fact that we've seen a couple cockroaches run through our quite clean house, and are wondering if it's the hay that's sitting here.

So, let me instead ask this: does hay attract cockroaches or other bugs? I've heard that it does, and in seeing a couple and knowing they didn't come here because food's left out or some such, I immediately thought that maybe I should maybe considering having less hay in the household.

We are keeping it in a dry, cool place, so it's really in an ideal spot, but it's also sitting on the wall that connects to our neighbors, and I'm wondering if our neighbors have roaches, and they are coming over to check out the hay? 

The only other reason I could think that cockroaches would be interested in our home is maybe because we keep it quite a bit cooler than the outside temp? (Outside being about 95F, inside being no more than 75F.) Could the cooler temp be causing their interest in our home?

Oh, also, the bale was approx 60lbs. Hehe...for two bunnies...lol!! Now that's what I call bunny love!! LOL!!


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## maherwoman (Aug 11, 2006)

Another thought: maybe I'm not familiar enough with hay that is too dry...

I'm trying to figure out how to tell if hay is too dry, or if it's still considered fresh...anyone have any sites or pointers to tell me so I can figure it out?

Thanks!


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## Bo B Bunny (Aug 11, 2006)

If hay isn't dry it can combust. That's what causes a lot of barn fires. Dry is good for hay. What I suggest is that you get a spray bottle and "mist" her hay before giving it to her. We have a couple of horses who "dunk" their hay before eating it. Quite funny actually, but very messy! :?

Hay should last at least a year. We are feeding 2 year old hay right now in the barn. It's been in the loft that long.

If you see white dust when you tap two flakes together (2 of the separation areas) then there could be a mold problem. Hay molds when 1 - it's been wet when it was baled, 2 - it gets wet in bale and then dries out again. Mold can also look just like any other mold. You can smell for freshness also. If you have a good sniffer 

As far as cost - I believe it's higher because there isn't as much agriculture there. We can get hay as cheap as $2.50/bale here to $6 for the super good alfalfa bales.


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## Bo B Bunny (Aug 11, 2006)

Oh, and my daughter got Champion for her division of "hay" at the county fair this year. My son got Blue with Honors (considered for champion). We have good hay! I wish you were close to me. I'd hook you up every couple of weeks!


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## MyBabyBunnies (Aug 11, 2006)

Hay is _supposed_ to be dry. If it's not dry when it's baled, it will go mouldy. Do not try to tell if it's too dry (2 months is fine) but instead be more concerned about mould. You can smell for mould because more often than not, you can't see mould unless the hay is really bad. Since the inside of hay stalks is hollow, it goes mouldy inside first and the hay will smell musty and old. Good hay will smell fresh and sweet. It's hard to tell the difference unless you've had to smell mouldy hay before but I bet the hay is fine.

Is this your first bale of farm hay? Is it a different kind than you were buying before (AKA Timothy/Brome mix)? Were you buying petstore hay? If any of this is true, Maisie may seem to be shunning it now not because there is something wrong with the hay but because she's used to it. She might have just been eating so much before because it was different to her and she liked it better than what she was on before. Think of it this way, if you were to eat the same thing day after day and one day you ate something new and liked it, you'd probably eat it more often but eventually the novelty will wear off and you wont want to eat it as much, right?

I've never heard of hay attracting bugs myself but we don't have cockroaches so I have no idea.

P.S.- I buy three '60 lb' (they vary in weight but the dimensions are consistant) hay bales a year. So between my 3, they consume 60 lbs every 4 months.


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## MyBabyBunnies (Aug 11, 2006)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> As far as cost - I believe it's higher because there isn't as much agriculture there. We can get hay as cheap as $2.50/bale here to $6 for the super good alfalfa bales.


 I figured that, I think that California ships in a lot of hay too. I know some of their Timothy actually comes from Canada.

And here, super good Alfalfa costs $3.00, LOL. Alfalfa is dirt cheap around here, Timothy is a little more expensive but I mean $4.50 for some very nice _pure_Timothy (hard to find pure Timothy around here) is extremely reasonable.


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## Bassetluv (Aug 11, 2006)

I recall reading years ago that if you stick your hand in the center of a bale of hay and it feels hot, then you could have problems (combustion, mould, etc.). Could be wrong though...it's just something I recall from many years ago. I had some hay for my bunnies that I bought last year...purchased 3 bales, which turned out to be too much for them. I did lose two of the bales, as they went dry, lost the green color and generally didn't look good. Now I buy one at a time and store it. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of access to places that sell hay bales,and the quality of the ones offered at the feed store here isn't always the best. However, I tried the hay that is sold at PetSmart and other pet stores (danged expensive!!) and they turn their noses up at that. Around here a small bag of hay runs @ $7.00, and an entirebale of hay is the same price.

I don'tbelieve hay attracts cockroaches...they tend to head for scrap food sources, esp. kitchen areas. Cockroaches tend to come into houses via grocery bags from food stores, or into apartment buildings via people moving in who were already infested in another place. They will follow the pipes in a building and get into the units that way. (I had the unfortunate experience of living with cockroaches a couple of times when I was renting an apartment...soon learned that roaches do not equate filth...some of the cleanest places can have them.) Mice and rats could be attracted if the hay is in an accessible area, as they will nest in it.

Afraid that's about all I know...:?

Oh, p.s....if you want to get rid of the roaches, many companies no longer spray to exterminate them now. They use a much more effective method in the form of a gel. It is placed around baseboards, in cupboards, etc., and, as opposed to sprays that would repel the bugs (only to have them return once the spray wore off), the gel actually attracts them. They eat it, and they take it back to the nest with them, and it winds up killing the entire colony. Works wonderfully...


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## MyBabyBunnies (Aug 11, 2006)

You're right about the inside feeling hot, it's a sign of bad hay -- normally an indicator of mould. And it CAN start itself on fire but I've never heard of it actually happening.

How long did you have the hay Bassetluv? As I said, I keep hay 1.5 years without a problem. That's why I say store it in a cool, dry place and out of the sun. Sun will cause it to turn yellowish/brown instead of the green color it should be. Keep in mind that the leafy parts look brown a lot of the times but it doesn't mean it's bad.

And although rabbit don't eat straw (ok, well mine nibble on it) I still have a bale that's 3 years old. It's still fresh, clean, and not a sign of mould at all. I wouldn't keep hay that long because it will eventually lose it's nutritional value.


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## Bassetluv (Aug 11, 2006)

I had my hay for almost a year, and had it stored in the basement. However, the basement can get a bit damp (it's uninsulated), so I suspect it's not an ideal place for storage. That's the only reason I can come up with for the bales getting 'washed out' (losing color, looking yellow and generally not appetizing). Unfortunately I don't have very many options for storing hay, my place is small. I have old shed outside, but it leaks, the door doesn't close properly and cats get in there and urinate (I kept straw in there for a small while, wasnt' a good idea). Ideally, I'd love to just get a half-bale at a time too, because of storage issues. However, with the price of a bale being so cheap compared to pet store hay, I don't mind if I lose some...just have to keep an eye on it so the bunnies only get healthy hay.


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## Runestonez (Aug 11, 2006)

We put our bale in a HUGE garbage bag and then cut slits in it all up and down the bag for ventilation. Keeps the hay from getting all over the place and it doesn't get mouldy! Since our bunns have their own bedroom we store it in their closet on a shelf so it is off the floor. We have the big container of Woody Pet in there too so it is nice and keeps things organized!


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## pamnock (Aug 11, 2006)

Wow! I can't imagine paying $20 for a bale of hay. (When we had horses, we had to buy hundreds of bales of hay). I just paid $1.00 for a bale of hay fresh off the field last week.

It's normal for new hay to be hot in the center as it cures (sweats out)which can take up to 6 weeks (it is during this curing time when hay fires generally occur). In very humid or rainy weather, the hay will spoil if it stays too moist and cannot cure in 4-6 weeks (some farmers use chemicals to keep the hay from spoiling). New hay should be stored in a well ventilated area and be allowed to cure. New bales of hay can also be broken open to hasten the curing process.



Pam


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## MyBabyBunnies (Aug 11, 2006)

*pamnock wrote: *


> It's normal for new hay to be hot in the center as it cures (sweats out)which can take up to 6 weeks (it is during this curing time when hay fires generally occur). In very humid or rainy weather, the hay will spoil if it stays too moist and cannot cure in 4-6 weeks (some farmers use chemicals to keep the hay from spoiling). New hay should be stored in a well ventilated area and be allowed to cure. New bales of hay can also be broken open to hasten the curing process.


 I did not know that, but then again I've never actually cut and baled hay. I only know how to properly store and ensure it's still good.


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## maherwoman (Aug 11, 2006)

Thanks so much for all the info, guys!! Now reading this, and the fact that it might just be the novelty wearing off for Maisie, I think I might find some way to make it new for her again...will misting it with a vanilla/water mixture (same amounts as their water) help? Or would that make it mold?

About the cockroaches, I have figured that they must be coming over from the neighbor's (or somewhere in the building). We don't live in the most glamorous place, but we keep it clean, so I know for a fact it's not OUR place that's generating/encouraging them! Lol...

It may be our next door neighbors, as they have a stack of boxes and some grocery bags of trash sitting outside their door...good sign it may be them, not to mention that one of them came through that particular wall. The other came through our heater, which is tied to other heaters in our place (I assume). We don't have a downstairs neighbor, so it had to be one of our next-door neighbors (or someone akin).

That gel idea is fabulous! What an innovative (and much less stinky) way to handle them!! I'll see what we can do about getting someone to come out and handle doing that for us.  Thanks for the idea! 

From what you guys have said, our hay is perfectly fine. We're on the second floor, so I think that keeps us from having many of the problems we COULD have with storing hay in our home. It's still quite green, loads of tops, smells WONDERFUL...like a beautiful, fresh meadow (I LOVE the smell!). So, we're fine on it's quality. 

Thanks so much!!  I feel much better knowing things are fine...whew!! *sigh of relief*


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## Runestonez (Aug 11, 2006)

The one apartment I used to live in had roaches! I finally had enuff when one jumped/fell on me while I was in the shower! 

When I finally had a fit the super thought I was being paranoid! He was convinced they were really earwigs! I am not a dolt I know what earwigs look like! I finally caught a few and stuck them in a Ziploc and tacked it to his apartment door! The exterminator came the next day! It turned out that the guy that lived downstairs didn't believe in putting his garbage out! It was all piled in his apartment. The super took the opportunity to check all the apartments surrounding mine and it resulted in the guy downstairs getting evicted! He was a really well kept, polite and nice guy too! Goes to show you you really never know your neighbours!:? But after the guy was gone we never saw another roach!


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## maherwoman (Aug 11, 2006)

Oh, wow, Runestones!! That's incredible!! I hope I don't have a neighbor like that!! 

I'll keep an eye out, but so far I've only seen two, one of which was bookin' it across our livingroom floor. He looked quite panicked because he'd just come across the cats (quite a scare, even for an almost two-inch-long bug!). He didn't look like he was comfy here AT ALL...just picked the wrong place to go into. Lol...we got him, but it was quite disturbing. The second one was in the kitchen, and I saw him so quickly, I can't honestly say he was even a cockroach! 

Regardless, that first one got me kinda worried...even though I seriously don't think they're camping out in our home. Lol...nothing like seeing a HUGE bug go scurrying across your floor when you didn't know there were any to begin with!! YUCK!!


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## Runestonez (Aug 11, 2006)

I know this probably sounds gross...but I actually like cockroaches more than spiders!:? I am TERRIFIED of spiders! At least whenroach sees you it has the good grace to look just as scared as you and run like heck! Spiders just sit and glare back at you! Nope I think I like scared bugs! 

The roaches we have here are more the size of a garden beetle though. They are a rusty brown colour and only get about an inch and a bit big. They really are skinny looking things! Now the ones I saw in the Carribean! WOW!:shock: I like bugs...but even those were a little big! I would love to own a Hissing Cockroach! Hubby says if one comes in the house I have to go out! That's OK in the summer...but Brrr... it'll get awfully cold in the winter!! He doesn't like bugs! And I haven't proved it yet but I am almost certain he is nervous around frogs and toads too!:laugh:Oh my what a wuss!


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## Bo B Bunny (Aug 12, 2006)

Imagine - I have access to an entire barn of hay at all times..... and I buy Oxbow. :disgust: Bo can't have the barn hay (alfalfa and dusty) so recently I noticed darker blades in it. I contacted Oxbow and it seems there are some nutrients they don't get from the greener blades. Bo doesn't really care - he tosses them aside. :?

Cockroaches are attracted to moisture. (Just FYI lol)

and

if I restated something someone else said or said anything confusing ........ sorry.... I didn't read it all, I'm tired cause we are in the State Fair Mode right now. I am trying to wind down and go to bed in a few.


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## MyBabyBunnies (Aug 12, 2006)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> Cockroaches are attracted to moisture. (Just FYI lol)


 Didn't know that, then again, we don't have cockroaches here so I don't have to know that. I like Canada -- no dangerous spiders, snakes, and no huge bugs!


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## Runestonez (Aug 12, 2006)

*MBB*- I think you jumped the gun a bit there! In Ontario the Southern parts have Black Widow Spiders. We also have the Massasauga Rattle Snake!! A friend of ours almost stepped on one outside her cottage a few years ago. They are considered endangered now though.

I think in total Canada has 3 poisonous snakes! In Alberta you guys have the Black Widow, Prairie Rattlers and a variety of small Scorpion all found in the south! I bet you didn't need to know that did you? lol


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## MyBabyBunnies (Aug 12, 2006)

Let me correct that, I love that we have LESS poisonous things and in my area, we have none of them. We don't have the Prairie Rattlers, we don't have Black Widows, and we don't have scorpians. Those are more around the Calgary area than here.

Although we do have Black Bears, the rare Grizzly Bears, Cougars, and even the occasional captive bred Lynx that gets loose... LOL.


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## Runestonez (Aug 12, 2006)

Hmmmonder:...I dunno...I think I like the scorpions better! I am confident in my ability to outrun a scorpion!My 2 uncles lived out in Calgary for a while! To hear them you'd think they'd been personally targeted! LOL


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## Bassetluv (Aug 12, 2006)

> I like Canada -- no dangerous spiders, snakes, and no huge bugs!


 While these two bugs aren't harmful to humans, they can get big (at leat to me!):












The first pic is of cicadas, and the second is (UGH) a June bug...my biggest fear.

Cicadas can get quite large, but generally we don't see them much around here, unless they are dead...then you might see one lying on the ground somewhere. They actually look like gigantic mutated flies. But I love listening to them as they make that weird sound in the trees on a sweltering day...a true sound of summer to me. 

June bugs, on the other hand...ew ew ew!!! I have always been terrified of them. Here in Ottawa they are actually quite a bit smaller than the ones I was accustomed to seeing during my childhood in Nova Scotia. Back then I recall swarms - thousands of those iccky reddish bugs - teeming around street lamps and back door lights. I refused to go outside after dusk during the month of June, when they would emerge for about 3 weeks. Danged things...if one flew at you, it would either get tangled in your hair or get stuck on your clothing. Man! I had one get stuck on my sweater once when I was around 12 or 13, and I ran screaming down the street in a wild panic. They're pretty harmless overall (although their larvae - white grubs - can take over a lawn and destroy it in no time), but I still get the willies over them. 

Oh, and then there's the cockroach, as was mentioned...I kinda freak out over them too. Guess I have a phobia for hard-shelled bugs! (And whoever said they wanted to own a Madagascar hissing cockroach...:scared:!!!!)

***LOL...as I was going through a bug site to get a pic of a June bug, my cat's tail brushed against my leg...I must've jumped a foot! Told ya they give me the creeps...


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## pamnock (Aug 12, 2006)

I love bugs! 

Matthew and I are currently raising Monarch butterflies. Our first chrysalis hatched yesterday -- a beautiful girl!

Cicadas are a yummy treat for many creatures - our hamster loves them! 

I have abig beetle (buried itself somewhere in the bottom of our terrarium). We also have some grasshoppers and a few pretty milkweed bugs.

Now snakes are another story. Ryan brought a little corn snake into the house yesterday and I screamed and ran! :shock:






Pam


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## MyBabyBunnies (Aug 12, 2006)

I've never seen those here either. The biggest things we have are what I call 'mini terantulas' which are non poisonous spiders but the females have huge butts the size of quarters. Other than that, the biggest bugs we have here are bumble bees and grasshoppers!


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## nermal71 (Aug 12, 2006)

Pam question for you. Where do you get your chrysalis for the butterflies? I homeschool and that would be an awesome project for my kids. Probably next summer now as it's almost end of summer.


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Aug 12, 2006)

Hearing about what creatures you all have over there makes me glad I live in England!:lol:The scariest thing we get here is probably a little house spider, although I'm still scared of them!:scared:


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## pamnock (Aug 12, 2006)

*nermal71 wrote: *


> Pam question for you. Where do you get your chrysalis for the butterflies? I homeschool and that would be an awesome project for my kids. Probably next summer now as it's almost end of summer.


 


We also homeschool and are raising the butterflies for a science project 

The eggscan be found on the underside of milkweed plants. The eggs are small (size of a pinhead), light colored, and you may only find one on a leaf. The caterpillars are striped yellow, black and white and are smoothed skin. (Another common species is fuzzy, also eats milkweed, but is harder to raise). Very young caterpillars appear to be just a very tiny, thin black worm, but quickly grow to nearly 5 centimeters!

Simply keep them supplied with fresh milkweed leaves (they also love the pods). They are in the caterpillar stage for approx. 14 days before making their chrysalis, then they hatch from the chrysalis after about 14 days.

Depending on the region you live in, you still might be able to find eggs and/or caterpillars. Milkweed generally grows in very sunny dry regions.

Many companies, such as this one http://educationalscience.com/butterflyfarmkits.htmsell butterfly kits.

Pam

http://www.geocities.com/pamnock/



I also have a homeschool group for rabbit owners. Not very active anymore, but a lot of useful info and linksin the archives. Especially a lot of study info for 4-H and royalty,and links relating to school studies as well.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/homeschooledrabbits/


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## Bassetluv (Aug 12, 2006)

*pamnock wrote: *


> I love bugs!
> 
> Matthew and I are currently raising Monarch butterflies. Our first chrysalis hatched yesterday -- a beautiful girl!
> 
> ...


 
hahaha...Pam, you and I are opposites! I love snakes of any kind, but bugs scare me. I had a green grass snake once as a pet, and was always drawn to them whenever there were exhibits. 

I love Monarchs...they are so beautiful. And they seem to be appearing in greater numbers this year. I have a milkweed plant in my backyard and a monarch has been hanging around it quite a bit...I'm was hoping to see at least one chrysalis on the plant, but haven't spotted any so far. Also have a ton of what I think are aphids covering the plant (they're small and orange)...I've noticed the odd ladybug eating them, but they don't seem to be keeping the numbers down....

And ewwwww...I never knew that hampsters ate bugs, let alone cicadas! EW EW (visions of crunchy bugs in my head...YUCK!)


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## Bassetluv (Aug 12, 2006)

*MyBabyBunnies wrote: *


> I've never seen those here either. The biggest things we have are what I call 'mini terantulas' which are non poisonous spiders but the females have huge butts the size of quarters. Other than that, the biggest bugs we have here are bumble bees and grasshoppers!


 MBB, you're lucky...! Although I'm not crazy about spiders of any size. They scare me! My problem is, I could never kill a bug of any kind, even if it terrified me...just wouldn't have the heart to do it. I figure they have just as much right to be here as I do. (However, I made an exception when cockroaches invaded my apt several years ago...I did have to call in an exterminator.) Those mini-tarantulas sound iccky...


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## Bo B Bunny (Aug 14, 2006)

WOW this thread turned around huh? 

I'd die if I had cockroaches in my house. I hate them!!!!

We don't have many poisonous things - just brown recluse spiders, black widow spiders and timber rattlers in the southern part of the state. We don't have big things like bears or moose, but we have bobcats and coyote.


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## maherwoman (Aug 14, 2006)

Hehe...yeah, I noticed...it went from hay to bugs...ick!

Lol...you can't imagine how it felt seeing that HUGE cockroach go RUNNING for our front door, though it was a small comfort to know he was leaving as fast as he possibly could because our kitties had noticed him and were AFTER him. It was a funny sight, I'm sure, both me AND my husband on the couch, legs up, feet off the floor, grossed out! Lol...my daughter was asleep, or that brave little cutie would have gone after him with her tennis shoe!! LOL!! 

YUCK!!!


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## Bo B Bunny (Aug 15, 2006)

I'd have been doing what we call "the scooby doo run"..... your feet move and you aren't going anyplace. :scared:


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## maherwoman (Aug 15, 2006)

Yeah, lol...and you'd have to be doing that sound effect they did...badinka badinka badinka badinka!! LOL!!


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## pamnock (Aug 18, 2006)

Our first male monarch emerged today!!!!!! Was hoping for a boy soon - the first 5 were females.

Went out to gather more milkweed to feed the caterpillars and came home with my favorite arachnid (a HUGE female)! http://www.fcps.k12.va.us/StratfordLandingES/Ecology/mpages/black_and_yellow_argiope.htm

Pam


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## stephiemarie78 (Aug 18, 2006)

hey be glad in florida we have Palmetto bugs they look like giant cockroaches they totaly creep me out


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## pamnock (Aug 18, 2006)

Quite a "buggy" day for us! Stephanie and Matthew rescued a praying mantis from inside of Walmart. The poor thing was starving and devoured a grasshopper as soon as we got it home.

Pam


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## Bo B Bunny (Aug 18, 2006)

*shivers* from the spider, but held the hissing cockroaches at the fair! I love those things!


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## missyscove (Aug 20, 2006)

Bassetluv, june bugs freak me out too, especially when they're in the swimming pool, then their legs are almost, like, sticky, eww. 

I'm pretty okay with the bugs as long as they stay outside. Every couple of days I manage to find a spider in the shower, a nice surprise. If someone esle is awake, I make them kill it, otherwise I use a very large wad of toilet paper so as not to touch it. One time I was in the middle of my shower, not wearing my contacts (I'm basically blind without them) and looked down and saw a dark spot, I didn't know what it was, so I bent down to about 10 in. away so I could look at it and then I lept out of the shower screaming, and freaked my mom out who was at the counter drying her hair, it was a water beetle or something like that, not something I ever want to be that close to ever again, let's put it that way.


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