# Bunnies Drowned at Ohio Petland



## Happi Bun (Aug 4, 2009)

Has anyone else heard of this? :X 
It's so disturbing, the grin on her twisted face is going to give my nightmares. :cry1: 

Here is the link to the story (warning- shows a picture of the accused holding two dead rabbits).

Does this change your view of stores that sell animals?


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## MagneticLove (Aug 4, 2009)

omg that was disturbing. ugh its things like this that get me so pissed. i hope she and her manager get charged for animal abuse. people are sick!! i dont get how people can do stuff like this i just dont get it.


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## BSAR (Aug 4, 2009)

That is completley heartbreaking and sad. I cannot belive someone would do that! That lady as well as others who work at Petland should go to jail for animal cruelty! 

I am so sickened by that fact that she is smiling! Ugh that picture is just so gross and sad, it makes me want to throw up. I hope that no more animals are harmed and that law enforcement and animal services deal with this straight away.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Aug 4, 2009)

Oh my god. 
I hope that the employer in the picture and the manager both go to jail on charges for Animal Cruelty. 

I can't believe that! They should not be working at a pet store if that's how they treat animals. 

Those poor rabbits.  

Emily


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## luvthempigs (Aug 4, 2009)

The Petland store near me gives rabbits away for free with the purchase of a "starter cage/kit".

Personally I don't like the fact that they also sell puppies but that's besides the fact. They are also highly overpriced on their products.

As I pass the store I often feel sorry for the animals that are being sold there And after seeing that photo and reading the article I am pissed ssd:


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## Amy27 (Aug 4, 2009)

I seriously don't even know what to say. That is so sick. What kind of person does that??? I seriously don't even know what to say. I will be emailing the founder and chair that PETA posted information for. I hope this guys email and mailbox are full of letters about this. Petland needs to know this is not right and I can promise them I will NEVER shop there again. 

The picture is really disturbing. For people who don't want to click on the link and see the picture. Here is the information for the guy you can contact about this: 
Ed Kunzelman, Founder and Chair
Frank Difatta, President
Petland USA
250 Riverside St.
Chillicothe, OH 45601
740-775-2464
800-221-5935
740-775-2575 (fax)
[email protected]

I am going to have to cool off before I write my email.


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## pamnock (Aug 4, 2009)

It's very disturbing - I hope that criminal charges are pressed and that this "lady" is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Pam


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## Happi Bun (Aug 4, 2009)

That's great that you are going to email him, Amy! I'm going to as well. First I need to collect my thoughts. I don't want to sound like some rambling, angry beyond belief, idiot. :rollseyes


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## pla725 (Aug 4, 2009)

I sent an email too. I may send another as I was pretty upset when I wrote the last one.


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## kherrmann3 (Aug 4, 2009)

I don't have the heart to look at the pictures. I worked at two different pet stores in my life, and thankfully, neither of them treated the animals like that. Some people should just be taken out back and beaten...


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Aug 4, 2009)

this is very disturbing, and i hope that the psycho in the pic and the one that took it are prosecuted to the fullest!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As far as changing my view of petstores that sell animals , i still dont like them, and never will


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## pherber12 (Aug 4, 2009)

I've sent my email. I am going to urge others to do so as well. This is really sick.


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## CKGS (Aug 4, 2009)

Sent an email also. We definetly need to be respectful and try to be as adult about this as possible although I would love to do nothing more than throttle everyone involved. The only way to get something across though is to be as calm as possible. 
I will be sending more emails too. I think it's time pet owners take a stand against these pet stores who perpetuate these sorts of crimes.


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## Amy27 (Aug 4, 2009)

I am still so upset by this. I went to try to find if there was anything else I can do. I found the article PETA's website and this one has a pretyped email and all you have to do is put your name and email address in. I thought it may help people who wanted to send something but didn't know what to say. Here is the link
https://secure.peta.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=2385

WARNING: THIS LINK ALSO CONTAINS THE HORRIBLE PICTURE!!!!!


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## BethM (Aug 5, 2009)

Thank you for posting that link, Amy. I am too disturbed to write something on my own right now. I sent the form letter, though I may write my own after I calm down a bit. 

Although I don't agree with everything PETA does or stands for, I am fully behind them on this issue. They helped to get PetCo to stop selling rabbits, so if they can help end the sale of rabbits at Petland, as well, I'm absolutely with them.

I really hope both employees involved in this are prosecuted. Personally, I wouldn't mind if some sort of bodily harm befell both of them. These are the types that make me hate people.


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## Happi Bun (Aug 5, 2009)

My email has been sent as well.


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## bobismyturtle (Aug 5, 2009)

My email was sent. This was just so sick. They remind me of my bunny, so that really ticked me off. It ticked me off anyway. Why would someone like that even work at a pet store?


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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Aug 5, 2009)

That is so cruel. I don't understand people like them and think the should be prosecuted! I sent the form letter. I use buy from Petland but stopped as I could have everything I wanted shipped here cheaper


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## MyLOVEABLES!! (Aug 5, 2009)

This makes me sick.


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## Baby Juliet (Aug 5, 2009)

Could be a fake. Any one tried to find the actual facebook entry?


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## Sweetie (Aug 5, 2009)

I agree with you all on this! I hope that the employee and the mannager get what is coming to them. It is very disturbing and sick that someone would drown rabbits and then have the odacity(sp) to post a pic while smiling. "Oh look at what I did, I am so wonderful", is what I think that, that employee and manager was implying.

Killing innocent rabbits is no laughing matter. The employee and the mannager should be fired and charged with animal cruelty.

It just makes me very angry to see rabbits abused.


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## Spring (Aug 5, 2009)

What kind of sick person could not only sit there swearing as something is suffering while dying... but then act like a lunatic and post pictures of it on facebook? Really. What goes through someone's head to make this sound like a good idea? 

Those poor babies . I can't imagine how painfull and frightening it would have been to be drowned alive. Out of all the HUMANE methods of euthanasia, cruelty is unexceptable.


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## Happi Bun (Aug 5, 2009)

*Baby Juliet wrote: *


> Could be a fake. Any one tried to find the actual facebook entry?


It's highly unlikely this sicko is still using their facebook account; there is a 'deactivate' setting on Facebook. 
I honestly don't see how (or why) it could be a fake. Apparently concerned friends on Facebook were the ones who originally brought the cruelty to light. Also, the woman who drowned the rabbit's has been fired or let go.


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## Sweetie (Aug 5, 2009)

*Happi Bun wrote: *


> *Baby Juliet wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Could be a fake. Any one tried to find the actual facebook entry?
> ...



Thank GOD for that. I hope that the employee will not be able to get another job wiorking at any pet store.

I tried looking for her on myspace and came up with nothing.


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## tomorrow264 (Aug 5, 2009)

This just makes me want to be ill. My email is sent.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Aug 5, 2009)

HabbitBun, thank you for the Warning, I really appreciate that!

This is so disgusting though, omg! How could someone smile after that?!!!:cry2


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## kherrmann3 (Aug 5, 2009)

*AngelnSnuffy wrote: *


> This is so disgusting though, omg! How could someone smile after that?!!!:cry2


Because they're sick. That's the only thing I can think of. Some people just get their kicks by doing sick things. I hope they get what's coming to them.


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## kirsterz09 (Aug 5, 2009)

It seems to me that this company is just selling purely for profit. It's a shame that the bunnies were killed and kept in such horrific conditions. Obviously the people they employ do not have a love for the animals to be okay to do something like that. If all this is true and this is what the company does then, everyone should boycott the company, however if this is not what the company wishes to promote then serious action should be taken against those responsible for this horrific incident.


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## kirsterz09 (Aug 5, 2009)

ps. Having plucked up the courage to look at the picture, it definitely looks like a working enviroment, you can see a message board in the back and disenfectants and a work surface. The lady in question is wearing what looks like a blue uniform, as I live in the UK I don't know what there uniform looks like to be able to clarify if it is definitely their company, maybe someone else can clarify this? 
I can't believe someone could have such a big grin on their face as that it's sooooo awful! Justice really needs to be done.


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## Kel4mum (Aug 5, 2009)

That made me cry, I hope they get everything coming to them......sickos


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## fuzz16 (Aug 5, 2009)

*Baby Juliet wrote: *


> Could be a fake. Any one tried to find the actual facebook entry?



i hope to god that this is a fake and that those rabbits are just in shock from a bath-one that shouldnt have been given in the first place.

i worked at a petland for two years and held a lot of pride in the job. at our store, we really did know where we got our dogs. we met the breeders-had scouts sent out to the places-and had our dogs all checked out once a week. i was proud of that store at least, petlands in general i know a lot that upset me. i worked as a manager and was in charge of small animals. if we had a rabbit getting older we would seperate him from the rest-giving him his own space-so he didnt hurt the babies. then eventually have sales. i made sure my employees explained the rabbits needs clearly and a rabbit could not go home unless they bought a decent sized cage for the bun and everything they needed. i was strict with the small animals, losta lot of sales but people dont understand what thier undertaking with these animals. sadly im not there now and i know a lot of things have changed and the store is going downhill. i try not to go in or else i would come home with every bun there.

plus even when we had an injured animal-even a hamster of gerbil, they would see the vet. i remember running a bunny to the vet when we got the shipment in and he was lethargic. it was our job to take care of them and tend to them the best we could.

so ya im very upset as someone who knows how petland works and was extremely hard to be professional in the email i wrote.


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## fuzz16 (Aug 5, 2009)

*kirsterz09 wrote: *


> ps. Having plucked up the courage to look at the picture, it definitely looks like a working enviroment, you can see a message board in the back and disenfectants and a work surface. The lady in question is wearing what looks like a blue uniform, as I live in the UK I don't know what there uniform looks like to be able to clarify if it is definitely their company, maybe someone else can clarify this?
> I can't believe someone could have such a big grin on their face as that it's sooooo awful! Justice really needs to be done.





she works in the kennel. in charge on taking care of dogs, feeding, grooming, watering, excercisin, ect. they were scrubs. 

theres a dishwasher behind her to the left where bowls and toys are washed nightly. a washer and dryerr to theleft of the dishwasher stacked up. the baskets are for the laundury-dog beds, towells, ect. and a sink behind her where grates are washed off and puppys washed. then the blue spray is a cleaner for windows.

its a petland...they all have about the same setup


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## Happi Bun (Aug 5, 2009)

Reading the comments under the story, it appears this woman is being prosecuted. Someone stated that they contacted the Akron Humane Society and they responded back. The agent said this girl is being prosecuted and she will be appearing in Court.

I pray it's true. ray:


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## pla725 (Aug 5, 2009)

From Petland's website 

"PETLAND OUTRAGED AT INCIDENT IN AKRON STORE


(CHILLICOTHE, OHIO â August 4) -- Petland, Inc. has been made aware of an isolated incident at the Petland store in Akron, Ohio as it relates to the mistreatment of rabbits and has immediately become involved in the investigation. The store, located in Chapel Hill Mall, is individually owned and operated by a local franchisee. 

This information is horrifying and in no way reflects the values, policies and procedures demanded of Petland stores. Petland is saddened and outraged at this gross violation of Petland's animal care standards. It is Petland's understanding that the employee was instructed to contact the store's consulting veterinarian, and instead, defied the orders and store policy and acted on her own. She was immediately dismissed and the case is now being handled by local law enforcement. Petland, Inc. is conducting its own internal investigation.

This is an isolated incident that is horrific and inexcusable and will not be tolerated. Petland will take any and all action necessary as this does not, in any way, represent the culture and dedication to animal care of the thousands of caring Petland employees working across the country every day."


PETLAND TERMINATES FRANCHISE AGREEMENT

(CHILLICOTHE, OHIO â August 5) â In response to a recent incident regarding the horrific mistreatment of rabbits at the Petland store in Akron, Ohio, Petland, Inc. has terminated the store ownerâs franchise agreement. Effective immediately the store is closed and will not be reopened. The animals will be immediately removed from store located in the Chapel Hill Mall, which was individually owned and operated by a local franchisee.

Petland will in no way, shape or form tolerate any abuse of animals in its care. We are outraged of this gross violation of Petlandâs animal care standards.

Petland policy demands that medical treatment and protocol is to be provided and determined by the storeâs consulting veterinarian and not be undertaken by an employee. Petland policy also dictates that no animal be euthanized in ANY manner by any staff member.

Petland will take any and all action necessary as this does not, in any way, represent the culture and dedication to animals of the thousands of professional Petland employees who provide extraordinary care every day across the country.

Akron pet store closes amid accusations over the drowning of rabbits 
By Jim Carney 

POSTED: 12:08 p.m. EDT, Aug 05, 2009 

Beacon Journal staff writer

The Petland store at Chapel Hill Mall in Akron has been closed after a former employee at the store was charged with two counts of animal cruelty.

Accusations of animal cruelty were raised after the employee allegedly posted a photograph of herself drowning two rabbits in the store's back room on Facebook â an Internet-based social network.

The store has been closed and will not reopen, according to a press release from the Chillicothe-based Petland.

Petland said the decision to close the store was made ''in response to a recent incident regarding the horrific mistreatment of rabbits.''

Tim Harland, senior humane officer for the Humane Society of Greater Akron, said Liz Carlisle, a former employee, has been charged with two misdemeanor counts of cruelty to animals in Akron Municipal Court.

Harland said his agency was tipped of the July 28 incident by People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA).

PETA has called on the owner of Petland chain, Ed Kunzelman, and its president Frank Difatta, to no longer sell rabbits at any of its stores nationwide.

Authorities say the Facebook photo showed a smiling Carlisle holding two dead rabbits. The photo was allegedly taken by a store manager.

''Petland will in no way, shape or form tolerate, any abuse of animals in its care,'' the company said in its statement. ''We are outraged of this gross violation of Petland's animal care standards.''

Petland said the animals at the Chapel Hill store will be removed. The store was owned and operated by a local franchisee. Petland did not release the name of the store's owner.

Akron police said they were not aware of the incident.

Petland said it will take ''any and all action necessary as this does not, in any way, represent the culture and dedication to animals of the thousands of professional Petland employees who provide extraordinary care every day across the country.''

PETA, in its statement, said Petland ''should follow the example of other national chains and immediately stop selling these small, vulnerable animals.''

Harland said this appears to have been isolated incident and Carlisle told investigators that it was her decision to drown the rabbits.

''She thought it was in the best interest of the rabbits,'' he said because they had suffered injuries inflicted upon themselves.

Carlisle, 20, of Ravenna, could not be reached for comment. She is scheduled to be in Akron Municipal Court on Aug. 17.


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## Jenk (Aug 5, 2009)

I got a link to this story about an hour ago. I have since done the following:

*1) *cried

*2) *wrotea strong complaint to the president of Petland

*3) *wrotea concerned letter to the Akron, OH police dept. and the city's mayor

*4) *cried some more...

Jenk

PS: I will hug and kiss my bun crew so much tonight!


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## BethM (Aug 5, 2009)

*fuzz16 wrote: *


> i worked at a petland for two years and held a lot of pride in the job.


I have a friend who took a bunny from a Petland store in this area. Her daughter's boyfriend had gone in to buy something, and they had a small dutch rabbit in an aquarium near the cash register. He overheard two other customers telling the clerk that when they were ready to leave, they would take the rabbit to feed to their snake. The boyfriend then spoke up and said *he* was taking the rabbit. The clerk indicated that he had been told to get rid of it, and he didn't care who took it. The boyfriend got the rabbit, who now has a loving home.

Any store that could allow something like this to happen, much less the incident with the drownings, will never have my business, and I will encourage everyone I know to NEVER shop there, and to tell everyone they know to never shop there. I don't care if they know where the dogs they sell come from or not, abuse like this should never happen to any animal.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #daece5"


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## Nancy McClelland (Aug 5, 2009)

What kind of person could do that to innocent animals you ask? An anti-social sociopath of the first order. Can you say Michael Vick? People, we need to do more than E mail Petland. Get your newspaper involved and also get the Attorney General of Ohio on the E mail tree--this should be treated just the same as Michael Vick--the a--hole in the picture and the person (for lack of a more virulent term) should both be given the same ride the aforementioned Mr Vick got. Those poor bunnies were tortured, not just murdered. Being drowned is not a nice or peaceful way to go. Guess you can tell I am a little furious right now. We are posting the story to a couple of site we belong to and are urging everyone to contact Petland, the Atty General of Ohio as well as the District Atty in whose jurisdiction the unspeakable acts took place. It is my feeling that the whole store should be shut down and all the animals confiscated and put into better conditions as I don't really feel it was just limited to the Rabbits. Rest in peace you poor little babies. Oh God I am so angry!!!!:banghead


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## Spring (Aug 5, 2009)

Glad they are taking action, but I would really love to see them stop selling animals to begin with so this wouln't even happen. There's no need to sell pets for an outrageous price to make a profit. A lady that my family knew a few years back used to be a breeder who supplied rabbits to the local Petland. She would sell them for $5 and then the store would turn around and sell them for outrageous prices like $55. ]

Considering just with my local Petland - there are two rescues only 20-30 minutes away that are stocked full with rabbits needing homes - there is aboslutely no need to sell them. If everyone who bought from Petland was directed to a rescue or REPUTABLE breeder, things would be a lot better in the rabbit community.

End of rant.. will now continue to discourage people from shopping at Petland, so many better only pet supply stores that are a lot cheaper and that don't sell pets!


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## Amy27 (Aug 5, 2009)

I can't get these poor bunny's out of my mind. Those poor things had to suffer so much and had to be so scared. I have emailed everyone I know to send letters. I have also contacted all the news stations in Cleveland and Columbus as I want them to air this story. The more people that know and stop shopping at Petland the better. WKYC in Cleveland emailed me back stating they will be airing this story on their 6 and 7 news tonight. 10TV in Columbus told me they wouldn't air it because it was to far out of their area. I haven't heard back from anyone else. But I think all news stations need to get this out. Maybe I am over reacting but I think everyone in every area needs to know what happened at Petland. I have seen a lot of abuse stories since being on this board. But I have never seen one so close to where I live. I have also emailed the rescues in Akron to see if there was anything I could do.


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## Ivory (Aug 5, 2009)

I have bought one food bowl from PetLand. I call it Puppymill Land. I hate that store passionately, it's mostly just for profit in my opinion. I do imagine that some are fair, as there are well-run PetsMarts and Petcos, but I really just have a problem with the whole idea of pet stores when there's a bunny rescue 5 feet away from this one, with 20+ rabbits in need of homes. Or a reputable breeder, don't have problems with those, either.

I'm not going back. However, it's commendable that they are shutting down that franchise and not re-opening it.


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## Nancy McClelland (Aug 5, 2009)

Hey guys, most of the kids we know who work at these pet stores do so because they love animals and have a zoo at home like most of us. This was an exception, but, I truly feel that the manger, owner, the photographer and Petland are all culpable. They were remiss and we all know the results. I sent an E to the Mayor's aid and the Ohio State Attorney general stating the same. They all have the same responsibility as a ship's captain. Next, I'm going to contact the news stations here as well as the editor of the pet section of the newspaper. Please don't let this just lie--get it out and keep hitting the officials in Ohio with it too. "Do not go gentle into that good night........"


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## Amy27 (Aug 5, 2009)

Does anyone know who we would contact at the courts about her case? 

Larry, I have never really gotten involved in case like I have with this one. Besides the people you mentioned in your thread, do you think there are any other officals I could contact? 

Thanks Amy


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## luvthempigs (Aug 5, 2009)

Fox8, WKYC in Cleveland

http://www.fox8.com/wjw-petland-store-closes,0,503474.story


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## pherber12 (Aug 5, 2009)

thanks for posting the link. it's good to know something is being done about this and it's getting public attention.


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## kirbyultra (Aug 5, 2009)

:cry1::cry2:cry1::cry2:cry1:

Poor rabbits... how can anybody do such a terrible thing? Innocent little animals... :tears2:

I am glad this lady has been charged. She really deserves to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law -- I hope Petland stops selling rabbits. I have sent my email. I'm so saddened by this. 

My Toby came from Petland. I fell in love with him there. :tears2:


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## Sweetie (Aug 6, 2009)

I am definitely going to kiss and hug my rabbits every night. Also tell them how much I love them and I won't let anyone hurt them in any way.

BethM: Thank your friends boyfriend for standing up for that bunny and saving its life. I am glad that bunny has a forever home and will live out its days/years with someone who loves bunnies.


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## irishlops (Aug 6, 2009)

im writing a email. after i some how calm down and gather my thoughts on the matter


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## Lolpigs (Aug 6, 2009)

That is just sick, drowing is one of the cruelest ways to kill an animal.

I hope she gets hard time, people just get a slap on the wrist in australia ;(


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## irishlops (Aug 6, 2009)

*Lolpigs wrote: *


> That is just sick, drowing is one of the cruelest ways to kill an animal.


:nod:tears2: it is one of the cruelest ways.


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## fuzz16 (Aug 6, 2009)

*BethM wrote: *


> *fuzz16 wrote: *
> 
> 
> > i worked at a petland for two years and held a lot of pride in the job.
> ...


well technically thier franchised. i refuse to shop at mine now that i left because i know what the store has turned into...but not everyone is bad.


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## irishbunny (Aug 6, 2009)

*Lolpigs wrote: *


> That is just sick, drowing is one of the cruelest ways to kill an animal.
> 
> I hope she gets hard time, people just get a slap on the wrist in australia ;(


Oh my God that woman is seriously cruel and disgusting, she must have been dropped on her head as a baby. It's one thing to drown the bunnies and a whole other stage of disgusting and cruel to pose with them and ask to have a picture taken. :X

lolpigs- It's the same here in Ireland, a lady down the road just drowned a litter of kittens she found in her shed a couple of weeks ago. She did it a few months ago too and I offered to take them and catch the mother for her but nope.....


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## luvthempigs (Aug 6, 2009)

I saw the story on a different news channel this morning. Lot's of people are upset.


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## BethM (Aug 6, 2009)

*fuzz16 wrote: *


> well technically thier franchised. i refuse to shop at mine now that i left because i know what the store has turned into...but not everyone is bad.



Personally, I don't care if they're franchised or not. I will never shop at ANY Petland store. The company should have guidelines that are to be followed by all franchise locations, and those should be upheld. I have heard numerous complaints about the poor health and conditions of animals who are sold at Petland stores. Either the company does not have appropriate guidelines, or they do not bother to check to make sure those are followed. I would think they would keep an eye on things like this, as any time something bad happens in a Petland store, it reflects poorly on the company as a whole. If there are good people at some locations, they should work to change the standards of the company, or go work for somewhere that has higher standards. 

This is not the only company I refuse to shop at, because I disagree with their values or practices. Some of the places are indeed franchises, but I disagree with the company as a whole, and therefore refuse to patronize any franchise location.


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## TreasuredFriend (Aug 6, 2009)

Bookmarking for comments later. STORIES RABBITS TELL is a good book to read with regards to treatment of rabbits at pet stores. I think kherrmann can say from a personal experience about buns or small creatures getting pulled for "good riddance" purposes...
It's good that eyes are being opened to cruelty.


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## Saudade (Aug 6, 2009)

Petland as a corporation should not be held responsible for the actions of individuals in it's employment.

However I do agree that these things can be avoided, most petstores in australia are owned and run by people who do love animals, rabbits however, are still treated with less respect than other animals but it is a lot better than in the states.

It is the owner of the FRANCHISE who needs to take responsibility for the actions, our major pet store franchise in Australia is PetStock and to own a franchise you must either be a vet, or have a vet in your own employment. I believe this is why we do not see such horrific cases of abuse.

I also think it should be noted that there are many more humane methods to putting down animals who need it. Drowning is a long drawn out process that is extremely painful and frightening.

Perhaps both the owner of the store who I gather was there when the event occurred, should also be prosecuted.


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## LionsRawr (Aug 6, 2009)

Can you imagine how terrible it was for those rabbits ? Especially the paralized one . Only true evil can get that much joy from killing innocent animals.


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## Rayen (Aug 6, 2009)

Personally I don't see why people would buy animals from them at all. Around here they sell a single rabbit from 50-60$ where the SPCA will sell you one (spay/neuter included) for 40$. Their hamsters are 20-30$ each. Dogs that are basically mutts cost several hundred dollars. (they're labelled as 'breed type' or 'breed hybrid' thus saying they have no idea what they actually are, that just makes my major vet bill sensor go off) All of these pets at the SPCA are basically sold for a minimal fee that is often less than the spay/neuter itself. I could understand getting pet store animals if they were cheaper, or if they were of quality, but these animals are of no better quality or guarantee than anything you'll find at a shelter and from what I see are all much more expensive than saving an animal from the local shelters. 

This sort of thing wouldn't have to happen if people weren't so grossly undereducated. So many people I've seen will not get a shelter animal because apparently the system is out to get them and withhold important history and additude information. :rollseyes Clearly they're going to adopt out a menace to society when they've probably cared for the animal for weeks/months. I know the SPCA out here won't put out animals for adoption for days until their vet has okay-d them. I'm so tired of hearing 'well they're in there for a reason, I don't want that kind of animal!' I've seen so many sweet animals in that situation due to innocent and heartbreaking reasons. A move, a family member allergic, a loss of job/living arrangement, it got too big, they trained it poorly and it has bad manners that can easily be worked on, a family member just didn't like it. 

I hate Petland, they seem to have this unnatural focus on selling you animals. I go look for supplies and I can't even find a good selection of toys/accessories for anything. Drives me crazy. I figure in a large pet store like that they'd be more likely to have a decent selection of items for _all_ animals but it's mostly just fish they worry about. Even the dog/cat stuff is fairly lacking. 

Then again you have to take everything that PETA says with a grain of salt. If Petland released a statement about it, they're either just covering their tracks and ignoring what really happened or it did happen as they said it did. I don't really like PETA, most of what they say is horribly exaggerated.


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## Nibbles96 (Aug 6, 2009)

This is why I hate Petland. They don't even care about their animals. It's so sad. I bought a hamster there in March and 2 days later, he died. :'( After he died I realized that he did look a little sick when I got him. 

And I bought Nibbles from Petland. That was the first time I've ever been there and I was really young. I'm glad he's okay.


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Aug 6, 2009)

*Happi Bun wrote: *


> *Baby Juliet wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Could be a fake. Any one tried to find the actual facebook entry?
> ...


Like Juliet, I'm very wary of PETA reports. They tend to stage events for their benefit.

But beyond that, I am just sickened that a photo has documented an event such as this, whether it was some random girl at a Petlandor a psycho at PETA. The act of torturing an animal is beyond my comprehension and you'd have to be a very mentally disturbed person to do such a thing. I just can't even fathom the thought of it.:expressionless


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## Jenk (Aug 6, 2009)

*OakRidgeRabbits wrote: *


> *...*I'm very wary of PETA reports. They tend to stage events for their benefit.
> 
> But beyond that, I am just sickened that a photo has documented an event such as this, whether it was some random girl at a Petlandor a psycho at PETA. The act of torturing an animal is beyond my comprehension and you'd have to be a very mentally disturbed person to do such a thing. I just can't even fathom the thought of it.:expressionless



You've stated my thoughts exactly. 

I'd intially wondered if it was a PETA-faked photo. Nowknowing that it wasn't fake leaves me feeling beyond sad for those sweet creatures. And the very idea of someone being able to _smile_ about purposefullykilling any animal--especially ones as sweet-hearted and cute as rabbits--horrifies me.


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## BethM (Aug 6, 2009)

*Saudade wrote: *


> Petland as a corporation should not be held responsible for the actions of individuals in it's employment.



I strongly disagree with this. I have heard numerous reports of the poorly treated animals in Petland stores across the country for many years. This indicates a low standard of animal care, company-wide, or a complete disregardto the actions of employees. If the drowning case was an isolated incident, and I had never seen a sick animal at a Petland store, or heard accounts from friends about how poorly animals are treated there, I might be with you on this. Unfornately, that is not the case, and the entire company must be held responsible for raising it's standards and cracking down on poor treatment of the animals in stores bearing the Petland name.


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## Camarie (Aug 6, 2009)

OMG that is horrible!


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## pherber12 (Aug 6, 2009)

Sadly, incidents like these aren't linked to a specific franchise. The employees at the Petsmart store in Thunder Bay used to drown hamsters in the fish tanks after hours for fun. It can happen in any pet store or pet franchise where they employ immature, children who are easily amused.

I prefer to shop in pet stores that do not sells animals of any kind.


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## luvthempigs (Aug 6, 2009)

What I wonder is why was there a manager who was working and who obviously knew what was going on and let it happen? I do believe the article said the manager is the one who took the photo. How does someone like that get a management position? :?ssd::cry2

I wonder how many other animals this girl has abused or killed in her life? I am willing to bet it doesn't stop here. It's just not the actions of a normal person.


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## fuzz16 (Aug 6, 2009)

*BethM wrote: *


> *Saudade wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Petland as a corporation should not be held responsible for the actions of individuals in it's employment.
> ...



thats like a woman saying that cause her last two bfs beat her and treated her bad then every bf is going to. when i worked there, yes, we had sick animals. when precautions arnt taken there are accidents, animals dropped, reptiles who dont eat because thier sick. it happens. when you have a 100+ animals in a store not everything can always be perfect. 

not trying to be snappy, but i can say for a fact that my store NEVER mistreated animals while i was there. we would take hamsters to the vet to be pts humanely if a kid dropped them and they were going to die. i dont speak for all, but not everyone is bad.


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## CKGS (Aug 6, 2009)

I don't think anyone labeled each and every Petland as bad or that all horribly mistreat their animals but that there have been many cases where this has happened in stores bearing the Petland name. 
What I am seeing is this: If only one store (in the history of Petland) had done this then it was an irregular incident but Petland has had a history of neglected animals (which is also abuse in my book). I would not condemn every store for one stores actions but if many stores have neglected/not properly cared for pets.. what does this say?
No, one cannot label every Petland as bad but neither can one label the rest as good because one store was good. 
There is also the sale of pets which in and of itself doesn't sound bad but think about it. What happens when informed new pet owners take home a pet and know nothing about its care? What happens when irresponsible people buy pets on a whim? Yes, this is their own fault and if something happens to that animal- their fault again. BUT also that pet stores as they may not have gotten a pet had it not been there and been cute and irresistible. 
Most pet store purchases (I'd be willing to bet) are impulse purchases, no research or background done to see if this type of pet is ideal for them. 
This is my problem with pet stores in general. Do I think they are all bad necessarily? No, not all of them. But a good majority of those who sell animals aren't great either.


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## Serious (Aug 6, 2009)

http://www.newsnet5.com/akroncanton/20292640/detail.html

That made me feel a bit better. Still, I know that these things happen all the time, not just at infamous Petland, but others. I don't take my chances with pet stores that sell animals. I have one nearby that does not, so that's where I go. I don't want to put money in the pockets of anyone that thinks a living, feeling creature is a commodity.


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## Amy27 (Aug 6, 2009)

I don't know if petitions really help but I am all for trying them. Here is a link to a petition to punish Elizabeth Carlisle to the full extent of the law. 
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/punish-elizabeth-carlisle-to-the-full-extent-of-the-law


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## BethM (Aug 6, 2009)

*fuzz16 wrote*


> thats like a woman saying that cause her last two bfs beat her and treated her bad then every bf is going to. when i worked there, yes, we had sick animals. when precautions arnt taken there are accidents, animals dropped, reptiles who dont eat because thier sick. it happens. when you have a 100+ animals in a store not everything can always be perfect.


This is nothing like boyfriends.

The problem here is that the corporation HAS to be held accountable for the actions of employees of stores bearing their name. Otherwise, nothing will be done to curtail actions like this in the future. As long as the cash keeps rolling up to the corporation, what do they care what individual employees do? 

This is why I will never spend money in any Petland store. Yes, they are franchises. But the profits make their way up to the corporation. If the income streams of the individual stores are hurt by this incident, they might take a better look at how they are running their own business, and perhaps they will be taking their concerns to the corporation. All franchise stores are bound by contract to uphold certain standard and follow certain practices, they are not independent businesses who can do whatever they please. If the company truly cared about the treatment of the animals in the stores, they would enforce strict guidelines on this. 

You keep defending ONE store for being good, but what about all the others that are not? Petland is a repeat offender in the mistreatment of animals. If they cannot keep the animals they sell healthy, they should have fewer animals (or none at all) in the store. It's quite simple. 

BTW, I don't believe a kid should be allowed to hold a hamster, if there is a possibility of the hamster being dropped, resulting in injuries that require the hamster to be pts.


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## Serious (Aug 6, 2009)

*BethM wrote: *


> *fuzz16 wrote*
> 
> 
> > thats like a woman saying that cause her last two bfs beat her and treated her bad then every bf is going to. when i worked there, yes, we had sick animals. when precautions arnt taken there are accidents, animals dropped, reptiles who dont eat because thier sick. it happens. when you have a 100+ animals in a store not everything can always be perfect.
> ...


 Thank you... I wanted to add that the example was pretty tasteless. :\

I often see people defending something just because their one experience with it was good. That's just subjective... it has very little to do with the bigger picture of the issue.


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## Amy27 (Aug 6, 2009)

*BethM wrote: *


> The problem here is that the corporation HAS to be held accountable for the actions of employees of stores bearing their name. Otherwise, nothing will be done to curtail actions like this in the future. As long as the cash keeps rolling up to the corporation, what do they care what individual employees do?
> 
> This is why I will never spend money in any Petland store. Yes, they are franchises. But the profits make their way up to the corporation. If the income streams of the individual stores are hurt by this incident, they might take a better look at how they are running their own business, and perhaps they will be taking their concerns to the corporation. All franchise stores are bound by contract to uphold certain standard and follow certain practices, they are not independent businesses who can do whatever they please. If the company truly cared about the treatment of the animals in the stores, they would enforce strict guidelines on this.
> 
> You keep defending ONE store for being good, but what about all the others that are not? Petland is a repeat offender in the mistreatment of animals. If they cannot keep the animals they sell healthy, they should have fewer animals (or none at all) in the store. It's quite simple.


I agree. I use to shop at Petland once and a blue moon. Never again....ever!!!!


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## CKGS (Aug 7, 2009)

Kudos Beth. I agree completely.


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## Leowyldemi (Aug 7, 2009)

that's absolurely disgusting :grumpy:


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## anneq (Aug 7, 2009)

I am heart-sick...I really don't understand how anyone could think that this was funny or amusing. Truly, human behavior just stuns me at times. This is one very, very sick person.
Signed the petition - hopefully this psycho will be prosecuted to the fullest extent.

God, I need to go read something more positive.


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## Nancy McClelland (Aug 7, 2009)

She is not a psycho. She is a socio-path. No empathy or feelings of remorse for any action. They also tend to be narcissistic--like to gratify themselves in any way they can and don't feel that there should or will be consequences as they are the center of their universe. Same personalities as John Wayne Gacy and Ted Bundy. Not all develop into full blown serial killers, but, one trait they all share in is the mutilation and murder of animals. Wonder if anyone has looked into here background and places where she has lived to check for statistical anomalies relating to that type of behavior. Nancy and I feel that she is a waste of protoplasm and that the world would have been a better place if her parents had used birth control. If you haven't yet, pleas click on the link above and sign the petition--we're #22146--and send the link to everyone you know that feels like we all do. Also, in one of my other posts, the is an E address for the mayor's community affairs aide and the phone number and address of the Summit County Prosecutor. Please urge that more than the aforementioned should be charged with a crime also and that Petland, which is in Ohio, should be slapped with fines and censured (would preferred shuttered). That is such a shame. We had one down the street from us and it was nice, clean, and the staff were all very friendly and all shared a love of animals. I think they were the exception rather than the rule. Keep up the good fight as we're the only voice that animals have!!


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## luvthempigs (Aug 7, 2009)

petition signed


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## fuzz16 (Aug 7, 2009)

*Serious wrote: *


> *BethM wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *fuzz16 wrote*
> ...



actually...there are good bfs and bad ones. there are good pet stores and bad ones. cant expect every petstore to abuse thier animals, its not true. i knew a couple who owned a mum and pop store and they have a few animals and have rescue dogs from shelters and on weekends thier closed and they take the animals home with them-exception being fish hamsters gerbils. they closed due to not making enough money.

so ya, your saying its safe to assume that they abuse and kill thier animals as well. even though they love them and just want to find loving homes for them where they will be loved as well.


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## anneq (Aug 7, 2009)

"She is not a psycho. She is a socio-path"

I stand corrected - I'm aware of what she is, sorry I mis-categorized her.

Two weeks ago a 19yr.old here was arrested for killing/torturing a retriever with a chain-saw.
Having been in law enforcement for 10yrs. I'm well aware of the pre-disposition of serial killers to torture & kill animals as a 'warm-up' for human prey.

Regardless of what they are technically labeled, I am more comfortable with just calling these kinds of beings, 'evil'.


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## Happi Bun (Aug 7, 2009)

I don't think anyone is implying or assuming all Petland stores abuse and kill their animals. However, this is not an isolated incident. In fact, good Petland stores would appear to not be the norm for the company. 

Therefore, they need to be held accountable. Let's not forget that Petland is the only remaining national pet retail (in the US) that is still selling rabbit's. So when blatant cruelty like this rears it's ugly head, people are going to want to see a change. 

Does this mean I think people at the Petland store near me drown or abuse the adorable baby bunnies they sell in their store instead of seeking humane veterinary care? Nope. Does it make me think Petland needs to take a serious look at the way they are running things and make appropriate changes? You bet.


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## CKGS (Aug 7, 2009)

I, again, don't think anyone said ALL petstores are bad. I think what everyone has said is that events have occurred at a good many pet stores and they should be punished. I concur with this line of thinking.
There are pet stores whom open their stores to rescue animals and these are the pet shops I, myself, will patronize. I will NOT patronize pet stores who participate in the sale of animals for the majority of their profits. 

No one has come down on EVERY petstore, nor the one you feel such a loyalty to. Taking it that way is accomplishing nothing but making yourself angry. I think you need to look at the posts above without feeling attacked. I don't think anyone here has done that. 
Many people are upset about this outrageous act and have right to be. Why shouldn't pet stores be held accountable for acts that harm the very animals they are trying to make a profit off of? 
I am appalled that this happened. I can almost visualize what these poor buns went through and it sickens me to my very core. There are humane and inhumane ways to end a life and this was in NO WAY humane.
The store was rightfully closed. She is getting charged- Great. But in the end if animal lovers don't stand their ground this sort of thing will continue. This one instance was documented with pictures.. How many go hidden from us because no one has physical documentation? 
I hate to even fathom how many times cruel acts have happened to these pet store profits (animals).... None of us can guarantee that it won't happen again or hasn't happened many times before maybe not at the store you worked at but others...


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## Wabbitdad12 (Aug 7, 2009)

I guess they closed the store, two sick individuals there, thething that drowned the bunny's and the one who took the pictures.


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## Nancy McClelland (Aug 7, 2009)

the really scary thing is that she worked there for nine years. And we agree no matter what psychological label is hung on her, she is pure EVIL!! They need to look into the history of that place and see what pops up--I'm sure it won't be anything good, just as I sure she didn't act alone and that others should share in the justice that is coming.


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## Nancy McClelland (Aug 8, 2009)

On another note, I called Petland's HQ and talked to a living breathing person. The only response I got to most of my questions was their PR statement read in a monotone. I feel that they are truly insincere in doing anything other than damage control--their only concern seems to be how to do damage control and not really address the issue of their ongoing problems. I asked if they have District Managers that are supposed to do periodic visits. The answer was yes. When I asked what they were going to do to try to make sure nothing like this happens again, I got treated to the monotone about how They" do not condone mistreatment of animals. If they did, they would all be in prison--no one will openly condone it, even, I'm sure their model employee will be singing a different tune when she's in the judicial chambers---the excuses and tears will be both flowing--they should have a blowup of her picture in the background so that the true personality can be seen, EVIL! Hopefully, this will be the stake thru the heart that will put Petland into the afterlife as I truly believe that they only care about the egg on their face and will do no more than they are forced to do. We only go to pet stores for supplies--all of our animals have been shelter recues or discards that others couldn't keep for a number of reasons to numerous to list. Petland will really have to do something extraordinary to change our opinion. If their swithcboard doesn't want to do more than read a prepared statement, we feel they truly don't care--it would do a lot more for damage control if they seemed even remotely sincere. Boycott them. Call, write, sign the petition, call the Mayor the police and call the prosecutor and make them all care. Write or call the Attorney General and the Governor. Let all the Ohio; politician's know that their protection laws are inadequate and antiquated. Finally, aks them what they intend to do about Petland, whose headquarters are in their state. Sorry about the rant overtones, but, "I'M STILL MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!":banghead


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## Serious (Aug 8, 2009)

It's not a matter of me expecting every petstore to be abusive, it's a matter of me recognizing the potential and taking the route where it is less likely to happen instead when available. If I know an exception, then I will treat them like an exception. If I don't know them, I go with what I can be more certain is safer. Simple.


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## BethM (Aug 9, 2009)

*fuzz16 wrote:*


> actually...there are good bfs and bad ones. there are good pet stores and bad ones. cant expect every petstore to abuse thier animals, its not true. i knew a couple who owned a mum and pop store and they have a few animals and have rescue dogs from shelters and on weekends thier closed and they take the animals home with them-exception being fish hamsters gerbils. they closed due to not making enough money.
> 
> so ya, your saying its safe to assume that they abuse and kill thier animals as well. even though they love them and just want to find loving homes for them where they will be loved as well.


First, the analogy to boyfriends does not make sense, and is completely irrelevant to this situation. 

Second, this discussion is not about "every petstore." It is specifically about Petland.


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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Aug 9, 2009)

*Happi Bun wrote:*


> Let's not forget that Petland is the only remaining national pet retail (in the US) that is still selling rabbit's.


*And in Canada*.


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## Wabbitdad12 (Aug 9, 2009)

*BethM wrote: *


> Second, this discussion is not about "every petstore." It is specifically about Petland.


I think its important that we stay focused on this situation.I know there are many wide opinions on petstores and we could loose focus onwhat the problem is here with this store and or chain. Lets focus our energies on Petland and not each other.


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## coolbunnybun (Aug 10, 2009)

What kind of sick person would do they? Those kind of people just totally make me so angry. I am going to email or write a letter to the company.


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## Pet_Bunny (Aug 10, 2009)

When a friend made a comment on her Facebook page, Elizabeth replied:

"[T]he manager took the pic for me. he reminded me that there were people outside as _was swearing at them to just hurry up and die but then she was so kind as to take this picture."_​_Source: __blog.peta.org_



Thank goodness for the Electronic media and the Internet that people like this is exposed. It is ironic that the very same device she used to post the picture is the evidence that will put her away.

Rabbits or any other animals don't just drown. If they are put under water, they will trash, kick, twist,and squirm until they are dead. Have you ever heard a rabbit scream in fear andagony? Itwould of been the most terrifying moment to witness a horrific death of these two rabbits. 
Yet the girl can hold the two dead rabbitsup and smile for a picture. 

Something is indeed wrong here.


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## bunnylove817 (Aug 10, 2009)

So was the store actually closed permanently or just temporarily until this whole thing "blows over"?


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Aug 10, 2009)

you know since this was posted i have not been able to get this out of my mind,ugh.


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## BethM (Aug 10, 2009)

*bunnylove817 wrote: *


> So was the store actually closed permanently or just temporarily until this whole thing "blows over"?


The news story, and the statement released by Petland, claimed that the store was being closed permanently. Hopefully that is true, and that it won't be re-opened again later. I hope that franchisee is never able to get a pet store franchise again.


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## luvthempigs (Aug 10, 2009)

I haven't been able to get it out of my mind either....

I still can't believe the store manager was in on it too. That's the type of person they have representing the store? They are supposed to be there to make sure thingslike that don't happen! Does anyone know if he/she was fired as well?


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## Evey (Aug 10, 2009)

This is very disturbing. I don't want to imply that all Petlands are this cruel, but I did purchase my bunny, Donnie, from a Petland in Michigan because he was all alone in a glass tank with a 50% off sign next to him. Curiously, I asked why he was marked down, and the manager told me that someone has purchased him, but brought him back because they thought he was blind and sick (because he was "wheezing."). I was so outraged (my mom was too) so we brought him home and took him to the vet. It turns out that he is not blind, nor was he sick--he simply has to scan in order to see because of his eye pigment, and he just snores when he sleeps. 

Sigh 

Kathy


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## pla725 (Aug 16, 2009)

Update:

http://www.cleveland.com/crime/index.ssf/2009/08/post_20.html


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## Serious (Aug 16, 2009)

Man, I just hate her more and more each time I see that grin.


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## Amy27 (Aug 17, 2009)

I am upset the article said the manager that took the picture won't be charged. 

I will be watching for updates to see what happens tomorrow when Carlisle goes to court. I will be crossing my fingers that Carlisle gets what she deserves.


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## pla725 (Aug 22, 2009)

http://www.recordpub.com/news/article/4650533

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/20448780/detail.html


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## Happi Bun (Aug 22, 2009)

Thanks for posting those links, I appreciate it. 

She's not grinning anymore. I just honestly don't see how this was just a mistake on her part, that she is a nice girl, like her father claims. I think she is only showing remorse for what she did because she could face jail time and a big fine. Not to mention her imagine has been totally ruined. Did she show remorse after violently drowning those poor defenseless rabbits and taking their lives? No, she posed for a picture to remember it. Did she show regret or remorse even after killing them and posing for the picture? No, she bragged about it on facebook. 

Now... only now... she shows regret and remorse. I hope she *does* get jail time.

:nosir:
[align=center]
[align=center]





[/align]
[/align]


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## Baby Juliet (Aug 22, 2009)

PETA sure brings out the monsters out of "animal lovers". People's reactionsare just as sick as her. Are the outraged really animal lovers or just sickos? Are they taking it out on her because it's not PC to take it out on blacks and jews any more?



*AKRON, Ohio -- *The father of the woman accused of drowning two injured rabbits is speaking out to NewsChannel5 on her behalf. 



Liz Carlisle, 20, of Ravenna, was charged with two counts of animal cruelty after she allegedly bragged about drowning the animals. A photo of the former Petland employee showed Carlisle smiling as she held up two drowned bunnies. 


*
http://www.newsnet5.com/video/20448994/index.html*


Today, Carlisle's father told NewsChannel5's Marielle Lue that the family is getting death threats and they are scared. 



In court Monday, Carlisle appeared very serious as she pleaded not guilty to two counts of animal cruelty. She's not making any comments on the case, but her father said she was forced to move. 



Inside and outside of the courthouse, Carlisle was followed relentlessly by animal rights activists. 



Her father said that he is outraged by what PETA is doing and said members of the group are promoting harm to his daughter. 



"I think it's admirable to want to protect animals but [what] about the humane treatment of people? There was nothing humane about those people yesterday," Joe Carlisle said. 



Carlisle said that his daughter is receiving death threats and has even had to move. He said enough is enough. 



"These hate mongers that are boiling up death threats against my daughter -- step back and take a breath," he said. 



Liz Carlisle's attorney said there's much more to the story but it will play out in court. 



"People are going to understand who Liz is. Not the monster who holds up rabbits and thinks it's a joke. She doesn't. She takes this very seriously," said attorney Ron Gatts. 



If convicted, Carlisle could spend up to a year in jail. She's due back in court on Sept. 3. 



Joe Carlisle said his daughter will tell her story in court and hopes her testimony will show her the way he sees her: a sweet girl who made a terrible mistake.


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## BethM (Aug 23, 2009)

I think jail time is the least of what this woman deserves. 

Those poor rabbits had no choice in what was done to them. This woman had a chance to act humanely, but chose not no. 

She is not sweet, and what she did was not a "mistake." Her daddy is just blind to the facts of the horrible things she did.


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## BSAR (Aug 23, 2009)

*BethM wrote: *


> I think jail time is the least of what this woman deserves.
> 
> Those poor rabbits had no choice in what was done to them. This woman had a chance to act humanely, but chose not no.
> 
> She is not sweet, and what she did was not a "mistake." Her daddy is just blind to the facts of the horrible things she did.


I agree completely Beth.


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## luvthempigs (Aug 23, 2009)

*BethM wrote: *


> She is not sweet, and what she did was not a "mistake." Her daddy is just blind to the facts of the horrible things she did.



Exactly! I bet shedidn't think she would get this kind of reaction.I hope she gets punnished to the fullest extent of the law and then some.

It's so typical of a parent to be blind to what their children do. Asa parent I would think he would be apologetic instead oftelling the world how sweet his daughter really is, you have to be kidding me!


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## Baby Juliet (Aug 23, 2009)

You guys are totally skipping over the death threatts. Did you even see it or do you only see what you want to see? It doesn't strike you as terrorist acts?

If you just focus on her acts and not the others, you are just like her.


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## mardigraskisses (Aug 23, 2009)

*Baby Juliet wrote: *


> You guys are totally skipping over the death threatts. Did you even see it or do you only see what you want to see? It doesn't strike you as terrorist acts?
> 
> If you just focus on her acts and not the others, you are just like her.


PETA generally is extreme and usually I don't agree with them. But she's a disgusting human being. No, that doesn't warrant death threats, but most of us don't want to kill her. We just want her punished.


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## BethM (Aug 23, 2009)

*mardigraskisses wrote: *


> *Baby Juliet wrote: *
> 
> 
> > You guys are totally skipping over the death threatts. Did you even see it or do you only see what you want to see? It doesn't strike you as terrorist acts?
> ...


For better or worse, death threats seem to be the norm right now. (Health care town hall meetings.)
There are some members of PETA that do tend towards the extreme, and the media is going to cover those people more than people who just want her thrown into jail. It makes a better news story. By focusing only on that, you are allowing yourself to be manipulated by the media, rather than learning the facts.

I maintain that Ms. Carlisle acted maliciously, and that was proven by the fact that she put her picture on the internet for all to see. It is likely that she has commited similar atrocities in the past, but didn't document them, or would do more in the future. 
She deserves jail time for what she did.


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## BethM (Aug 23, 2009)

*Baby Juliet wrote: *


> If you just focus on her acts and not the others, you are just like her.


Yes, I am focusing on her acts. Because she deserves to be punished for what she did, and I'm glad it's in the media for others to see.

You seem to be missing the point that it is people being shown by the media who are making death threats, not people on this forum. One person making a death threat against Ms. Carlisle is just going to be ignored by me, but it will not make me rush to her defense and decide that she is really a sweet girl who should just be forgiven.


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## luvthempigs (Aug 23, 2009)

*Baby Juliet wrote: *


> You guys are totally skipping over the death threatts. Did you even see it or do you only see what you want to see? It doesn't strike you as terrorist acts?
> 
> If you just focus on her acts and not the others, you are just like her.




I didread the post stating that there were death threats (though is there proof of that?) I don't in any way feel that her life should be threatened however I do feel she should be punished. 

I don't agree with PETA in most instances and no one should be taking the law into their own hands. That being said, I feel that what this girl is going through isa hard lesson learned. Hopefully she understands what she did was very, very wrong (on so many levels) and that she won't continue with this type of behavior. 

I certainly would not run to her rescue either. Nor pretend she didanything wrong.


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Aug 23, 2009)

*Baby Juliet wrote: *


> You guys are totally skipping over the death threatts. Did you even see it or do you only see what you want to see? It doesn't strike you as terrorist acts?
> 
> If you just focus on her acts and not the others, you are just like her.


I think the Death threats are Childish, if you ask me, the threats are going to take away from what is really going on. I wish the threats would stop because after all is said and done it is going to show PETA in the light as a bunch of nut jobs. Although i am not a full supporter of PETA and alot of what it does, i do believe in peaceful protest, but nothing gets accomplished with extreme acts like that. I do believe that she is not remorseful, and agree completely that this is most likely not the first of sick offenses like this. I would think that the father would be apologetic to about what his daughter has done.


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## Nancy McClelland (Aug 23, 2009)

I am in full agreement with Beth and Fran. I don't always agree with PETA's methods, but we are the only voice that animals have. I feel that the Attorney there is a coward--not charging the picture taker/manager is wrong and if I lived in Ohio, I'd be circulating a "recall petition". As to the father and his poor, misunderstood, good girl. I am reminded of a case in Fremont California more than a decade ago. A 13 year old stabbed a man to death at a high school--when questioned his mother stated that she had no control, he would hang out all night with his "gang" friends, drink, do drugs and had a "rap sheet" that was more than 60 pages. But, "he's a good boy". Death threats are wrong and so is killing a doctor because he performs abortions. I saw no feeling of empathy or remorse in the picture she posted--she was proud of what she had done. She is evil and disgusting. One year in jail is not enough for what she did. Don't think she's too bright either--didn't she read about Michael Vick? I tend not to believe anything she or her father has to say--it's just damage control. She's gonna speak at her trial--sure--I'm wondering if any of the casino's here would give odds on it--her lawyer won't let her take the stand and I bet the District attorney will fold like origami and take a plea deal, as it will be the easy way for them, just like not charging the manager/photographer or going after Petland.


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## kirsterz09 (Aug 23, 2009)

There is 2 ways of looking at death threats depending on your point of view, 1. Death threats are too much, they won't bring the rabbits back. 2. If she'd murdered a human she'd get the death penality so, why should it be any different for murdering innocent animals? It still a life.
But whatever the opinion she needs to be punished for what she has done.


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## Serious (Aug 23, 2009)

*Baby Juliet wrote: *


> You guys are totally skipping over the death threatts. Did you even see it or do you only see what you want to see? It doesn't strike you as terrorist acts?
> 
> If you just focus on her acts and not the others, you are just like her.



I'm just like her- a rabbit drowner- because I expect PETA to stoop to death threats and know they never follow through and that's basically the way of the internet?

Logic!


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## Pipp (Aug 23, 2009)

I'd like to nip the argument stemming from Baby Juliet's post in the bud. Posts about the incident and news updates are welcome, but we steer clear of PETA arguments and the like because they can get out of hand. 

If you don't agree, please just agree to disagree. 

Thanks for understanding.


sas :expressionless:


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## pla725 (Sep 9, 2009)

http://www.ohio.com/news/break_news/56995377.html

http://www.fallsnewspress.com/news/article/4661406

http://www.recordpub.com/news/article/4661066



What bothers meis the defense attorney'sattitude about this whole thing. He basically like why is everyone making a big deal over an animal. I don't agree that people should be making death threats though. Although I do agree that the manager should have been prosecuted as well. Instead she is opening another pet store. Great.


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## lovebunnyok (Sep 9, 2009)

I wish I could take that image of her out of my mind. It's so disturbing, and I have to admit when I saw this I cried. :tears2:


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## Nancy McClelland (Sep 10, 2009)

I can't get the image out of my mind either and haven't looked at it since it was first posted. I also seriously doubt that she has received a serious threat of death and don't understand why she didn't have to show in court--just her lawyer trying for some "spin" and damage control.. "Euthanasia by drowning". Doesn't that arrogant ass realize that drowning is one of the most painful ways to die. One picture being worth 10,000 words, all the District Attorney needs do is show her smiling face from her facebook photo. I can't believe any one would let that same manager open up another pet shop. If the DA wasn't such a coward, she should be facing charges as well as the district rep of Petland. That attorneys line of BS about "euthanasia by drowning" really sticks in my throat. Trying to make it look like she was doing a kindness and that it was someone else's fault that the rabbits were injured--that statement is a strong indictment against both Elisabeth Carlisle and the manager and everyone else at that store that did nothing to protect those little bunnies. I am still mad as hell!!!!!!:banghead


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## lovebunnyok (Sep 10, 2009)

I know what you mean. I am not a violent person by nature. I would rather work things out with a long talk, or some other type of mediation. But, that woman has made me so mad, I don't think I could keep my peace (or my fists from her face) if I ever ran into her on the street! :tantrum:


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## JeffS (Sep 10, 2009)

They might be sleeping, but I have to go cuddle my buns now. I swear pet stores need to be regulated for health and safety.

Here is my idea: Make it a requirement that pet stores first refer a person to a shelter to get their pet. Give the pet store $10 or whatever for every referral. The fee can be payed by a very minor tax on animal adoptions, even $1 or less would probably be fine, since many adoptions won't be referrals.

If you really, really want to make a difference, working for far reaching regulation like this is the way to do it IMO.

Anyway, I want to not have to think about this situation anymore so I'm not going to watch this thread.


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## Nancy McClelland (Sep 10, 2009)

I have no desire to punch her. Instead, I'd like to see the coward of a prosecutor go after everyone that is culpable, not take the easy course. The other thing that really gripes me is the rhetoric used by her attorney--Euthanasia by drowning? Bull you know what. She can't come to court because of "death threats" equates to trying to make her look like the victim. And her father--she's a good girl, she just made a mistake. I SAW THE PICTURE, she's not in any way good. She's a sociopath who's only regret is getting caught.


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Sep 10, 2009)

Arent there laws of accetable forms of euthanasia? I would think drowning would not be one?

I love that this case is getting this much attention, and hopefully because all the people are watching she will be charged to the fullest that she can get. I do not feel sorry for her in the least and i dont think for a second that she is sorry for what she did and that she was doing them rabbits a favor by euthanising them in that manor.


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## bunniekrissy (Sep 16, 2009)

What really shocks me are the comments at the botoom the news articles. Many people are defending her, saying it's no big deal. Now death threats are inappropriate, and some of the people are simply responding to that issue, but I cannot believe how many people seem to be just not bothered by this...


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Sep 16, 2009)

i think that rabbit are just thought of as disposable pets, so they think what is the big deal if the rabbit , or mouse , or hamster is dead. Sad frame of mind.


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## TreasuredFriend (Sep 17, 2009)

*Luvmyzoocrew wrote: *


> i think that rabbit are just thought of as disposable pets, so they think what is the big deal if the rabbit , or mouse , or hamster is dead. Sad frame of mind.


I agree. ^ . Until Humans and all of us as companion rabbit owners take Major Action to turn around the quick "good riddance" inhumane-acts mindset, nothing will change. 

Rabbits will be disposable and not worth speaking up for. It saddens me that people view cats and dogs as emotion-less creatures or disposable also, or do vicious inhumane things to witness cruelty and cause death. 

Growing up 45 years ago, Carrie McDonald showed us youngsters how she drowned young kittens from the farm overload. We went over to my Uncle's farm, and she brought out her pail of water. When you're 7 or 8 years old, that leaves an indelible impression. ... Or the neighbor boy who practiced his jack-knife throwing on a frog, after he hampered the frog/toad's ability to hop away.

Makes me sick that humans view rabbits as disposable items.

luvthempigs wrote: I certainly would not run to her rescue either. Nor pretend she didanything wrong.

^ I feel the same. ^ Would she feel differently, or have acted differently, if she had a rabbit companion pet to snuggle with or lick her cheek like a dog would do? What if the employee drowned two puppies and held them up on Facebook?


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## steffiexxweffie (Sep 17, 2009)

omg that made me cry... wtffff is wrong with her...omg i don't know what to say to this but i hope she gets tortured in jail


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## PuckWrangler (Sep 17, 2009)

I'm going to go cuddle my bunny now.


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## pla725 (Nov 13, 2009)

Bumping this up with the latest news.

http://www.fallsnewspress.com/news/article/4700078

http://www.ohio.com/news/67653312.html


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## Nancy McClelland (Nov 14, 2009)

after reading all that tripe I'm mad as hell again. Euthanasia by "drowning"--that's not euthanasia, it was torture. And how did those poor bunnies get so injured that they needed to be put down instead of being treated by a vet. And the picture on her facebook page speaks volumes as to just what kind of a "good girl" she truly is. All of Ted Bundy's victims thought he was a "nice" harmless guy too. The real problem is that the prosecutor wants to take the easy road and not seek justice for those two poor bunnies. Otherwise the manager/photographer would be sitting on the hotseat too!:banghead


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## Jenk (Nov 14, 2009)

*Nancy McClelland wrote: *


> after reading all that tripe I'm mad as hell again. Euthanasia by "drowning"--that's not euthanasia, it was torture. And how did those poor bunnies get so injured that they needed to be put down instead of being treated by a vet. And the picture on her facebook page speaks volumes as to just what kind of a "good girl" she truly is.


My thoughts _exactly_.




> The real problem is that the prosecutor wants to take the easy road and not seek justice for those two poor bunnies. Otherwise the manager/photographer would be sitting on the hotseat too!:banghead


Yes, I wonder that myself. How is it possible that the manager/photographer isn't involved in this court case?

Jenk


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## pla725 (Nov 21, 2009)

ullhair::X This says it all.

*Ohio woman gets probation over rabbit drownings 

*

The Associated Press

An Ohio pet store employee has been sentenced to six months' probation for drowning two injured rabbits and showing off about it on Facebook.

A judge in Akron also ordered Liz Carlisle to do 120 hours of community service and fined her $250 on Thursday. That was after the 20-year-old woman changed her previous not guilty plea to guilty on two counts of animal cruelty.

Defense attorney Ron Gatts says Carlisle decided she wanted to put the case behind her. He says she received death threats and was attacked verbally over a Facebook photo showing her with the rabbits.



*Pet worker guilty; gets probation for drowned rabbits *

By Phil Trexler
Beacon Journal staff writer 

POSTED: 04:46 p.m. EST, Nov 19, 2009 

A Ravenna woman, whose Facebook photo with two drowned rabbits garnered national attention, was sentenced today to probation.

Liz Carlisle, 20, pleaded guilty Tuesday to two counts of animal cruelty. She also received a $250 fine and will perform 120 hours of community service.

She was sentenced by Akron Municipal Judge Stephen Fallis in a courtroom devoid of reporters and news cameras.

Fallis, who was defeated in his election bid Nov. 3, could have sentenced Carlisle to 180 days in jail.

In earlier court appearances, media cameras and animal rights protesters hounded Carlisle and her family inside and outside the Harold K. Stubbs Justice Center.

Carlisle's attorney, Ron Gatts of Akron, arranged the sudden change of plea this week. Carlisle entered the guilty plea Tuesday and a presentencing report was completed in time for today's hearing.

The plea was not reflected on the court's online docket.

Gatts said Carlisle has been subjected to verbal attacks and death threats since news of the photos broke in August. He said he wanted to take the case to trial, but Carlisle wanted to put the case behind her.

Carlisle, he said, was ordered to drown the rabbits due to their severe injuries suffered during a fight with each other at the now-closed Petland store at Chapel Hill mall.

After drowning the rabbits, Gatts said a store supervisor photographed Carlisle smiling and holding a dead rabbit in each hand. Carlisle then posted the photo to her Facebook.com account, which caught the attention of animal rights activists.

Gatts said he was prepared to take the case to trial to prove that Carlisle did not break any laws by euthanizing the rabbits, which was directed by her bosses because of the severe injuries the animals suffered.

''As much as I wanted to try the case, [Carlisle] said, 'I did it,' which I think she has said from the beginning, and she said, 'I just want it to be over with.' ''

Prosecutors maintain Carlisle did not act appropriately and should have sought an opinion from a veterinarian before drowning the rabbits. Carlisle pleaded to the misdemeanor charges brought by the city.

''Unfortunately, it is not consistent with the way that most folks would deal with an animal that has injuries. You would take them to a vet and consult with the veterinarian as to the need for treatment, or whether treatment was appropriate,'' said Akron City Prosecutor Doug Powley.



Phil Trexler can be reached at 330-996-3717 or [email protected].


A Ravenna woman, whose Facebook photo with two drowned rabbits garnered national attention, was sentenced today to probation.

Liz Carlisle, 20, pleaded guilty Tuesday to two counts of animal cruelty. She also received a $250 fine and will perform 120 hours of community service.

She was sentenced by Akron Municipal Judge Stephen Fallis in a courtroom devoid of reporters and news cameras.

Fallis, who was defeated in his election bid Nov. 3, could have sentenced Carlisle to 180 days in jail.

In earlier court appearances, media cameras and animal rights protesters hounded Carlisle and her family inside and outside the Harold K. Stubbs Justice Center.

Carlisle's attorney, Ron Gatts of Akron, arranged the sudden change of plea this week. Carlisle entered the guilty plea Tuesday and a presentencing report was completed in time for today's hearing.

The plea was not reflected on the court's online docket.

Gatts said Carlisle has been subjected to verbal attacks and death threats since news of the photos broke in August. He said he wanted to take the case to trial, but Carlisle wanted to put the case behind her.

Carlisle, he said, was ordered to drown the rabbits due to their severe injuries suffered during a fight with each other at the now-closed Petland store at Chapel Hill mall.

After drowning the rabbits, Gatts said a store supervisor photographed Carlisle smiling and holding a dead rabbit in each hand. Carlisle then posted the photo to her Facebook.com account, which caught the attention of animal rights activists.

*Gatts said he was prepared to take the case to trial to prove that Carlisle did not break any laws by euthanizing the rabbits, which was directed by her bosses because of the severe injuries the animals suffered.*

''As much as I wanted to try the case, [Carlisle] said, 'I did it,' which I think she has said from the beginning, and she said, 'I just want it to be over with.' ''

Prosecutors maintain Carlisle did not act appropriately and should have sought an opinion from a veterinarian before drowning the rabbits. Carlisle pleaded to the misdemeanor charges brought by the city.

''Unfortunately, it is not consistent with the way that most folks would deal with an animal that has injuries. You would take them to a vet and consult with the veterinarian as to the need for treatment, or whether treatment was appropriate,'' said Akron City Prosecutor Doug Powley.

http://www.recordpub.com/news/article/4714567


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## pla725 (Nov 21, 2009)

_Why wasn't the manager prosecuted as well if she gave the order?_ 

AKRON -- She posted a photo of herself on the internet smiling and holding two drowned rabbits, but Liz Carlisle told a judge that she was forced to take the picture and ordered by a supervisor to drown the rabbits.

The picture, which was taken in the back of the Petland store at Chapel Hill Mall in Akron, caused an outrage. Liz Carlisle was charged with two counts of animal cruelty, and she pleaded guilty earlier this week.

At her sentencing, Carlisle spoke to the judge about why she drowned the animals. She said the animals were injured, and her supervisor ordered her to drown them.

"She just kept saying over again baptize Lizzy, and I said well what do you mean? And she says you know and her motion was she took her fist and pushed it under," Carlisle said.

The judge responded, "So she never said drown them?" Carlisle replied, "No she didn't use that term."

Carlisle told the court that she put the rabbits into a bucket of water then put another bucket on top of it. She said it was common practice to drown lame guinea pigs, hamsters and rabbits.

Franchise owner Gary Winslow says that the store never made a practice of drowning animals. Petland closed the store immediately after the pictures surfaced.

Carlisle says her supervisor at Petland took the photo.

"She told me to smile and I was really, I just feel like I was doing as I was told for the picture," she continued, "It wasn't the picture I was upset by, it was what I had to do what I felt my job was to do."

Carlisle's 90 day jail sentence was suspended. She was ordered by the judge to do three weeks of community service, followed by counseling and six months probation.

Petland did not return calls for comment.


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## cheryl (Nov 21, 2009)

Oh my goodness...how awful for those poor little bunnies...if anyone ever told me to do such a thing..i would tell them to shove the job where it fits..sorry but it's true.

That's just terrible!!

PS..i just couldn't bring myself to look at the picture


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## Elf Mommy (Nov 21, 2009)

This is the photo on the PETA website for those who haven't seen it.


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## lovebunnyok (Nov 21, 2009)

It's a good thing you didn't look at the picture. I did, and it still haunts me. :tears2:


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## Nancy McClelland (Nov 21, 2009)

this should be a call out for those that live in Ohio--recall the prosecutor and put him out of a job. This is exactly what I said the gas bag was gonna do all along! Complain to the governor's office and to the state attorney general. This is not justice--those poor bunnies were not euthanized, they were tormented and tortured. Her attorney reminds me of an old joke--what's the difference between Ron Gatts and the Hindenburg. One is a flaming Nazi gas bag and the other was just a blimp.:banghead


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## Happi Bun (Dec 10, 2009)

The really sad thing... if it were two Cat's or Dog's that were drowned I'm sure the outcome would be very different. Rabbit's are still viewed by many as disposable due to their long history as meat animals. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad she is getting some kind of punishment. I'm not entirely sure jail time would have been the wise choice of action, our jail system is packed to capacity to the point bad criminals are being released. I do feel her punishment wasn't stiff enough though. For example, she shouldn't be allowed to have animals, especially Rabbit's! No where did they mention that as part of her probation. 

I read the updated story Here and I'm disgusted to see the amount of people approving her actions and just posting general hate comments towards Rabbit's. I find it highly concerning that some people feel that because there is so much human suffering in the world, that excuses animal suffering. What the hell is wrong with people? Are they really that closed minded and ignorant? :X


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## Nancy McClelland (Dec 10, 2009)

There are so many things about this that make me nuclear. Reading the court proceedings, she openly admitted to having routinely drowned other animals and that it was a common practice at that pet store. The real criminal is the prosecutor for not getting sanctions against Petland and not going after the manager who was clearly in charge. All you need to do is get one look at the photo to tell that she should never, ever be allowed any contact with animals--that one was definitely ten thousand words, the first, being Socio-path.:banghead


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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Mar 18, 2010)

*Pet worker guilty; gets probation for drowned rabbits *



**


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## Happi Bun (Mar 18, 2010)

She received a $250 fine and will perform 120 hours of community service... Slap on the wrist. :nope:

Something that really bothers me? This section in the news story:

"Prosecutors maintain Carlisle did not act appropriately and *should have sought an opinion from a veterinarian* *before drowning* *the rabbits*. Carlisle pleaded to the misdemeanor charges brought by the city."

Wait, what? She shouldn't have drowned the rabbits regardless of the the vet's diagnosis!! It's inhumane and there are much better options.

This whole thing has me fuming!:X


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## mistyjr (Mar 18, 2010)

Poor bunnies and all the other animals.


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## RandomWiktor (Mar 18, 2010)

It's Petland USA... I'm severely unsurprised. I've heard nothing but negative about this chain. They mislead customers about the sources of their animals and have an abhorrent track record for the health of animals sold at their stores. How sad that just an employee got a slap on the wrist. IMO the whole chain should be broken down. Friendly reminder: pet stores make a big chunk of cash off of SUPPLIES. Please support supplies-only vendors!


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## Nancy McClelland (Mar 18, 2010)

I would say "screw Petland" but that doesn't go far enough. When this first happened I contacted them by phone and some gal red a totally prepared statement and re-read it when I asked questions. I will not buy anything at all from them and tell everyone I know about their practices. I feel that this was an ongoing thing at that locale, not a once or one time problem--they are supposed to have district managers, so, obviously profit is their only concern and try to spin any damage as a one time, "we didn't know" or was "only following orders". Bull--that is not a defense and at best an extremely weak excuse --seems to be a training ground for socio-paths like the one in UK that sat a rabbit hutch and rabbit on fire. It breaks my heart and I really hate having to share air with people like that.:soapbox:banghead


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## Yield (Mar 18, 2010)

this is so sad ):
i was thinking the same thing, about peta staging it...
but who really knows ):
but let's hope if it IS true, that Petland is more careful about who they hire.
because i know a lot of people work at petland because they love animals and it's a job where they can interact with them.
also, the petland in twelve oaks mall, in novi, michigan, has recently stopped selling all small animals.


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## Nancy McClelland (Mar 18, 2010)

we used to have a Petland here too, and everyone that worked there loved animals also. I gave them a couple of recommendations about their bunny habitat and they changed every thing before the next day--they were responsible. However, Petland, the company is not responsive or responsible in any way, shape or form. They only care about their bottom line. I asked the girl who answered the phone several questions about the Ohio incident and all she did is read the same prepared statement after each question. I think they could have handled it better but chose to give lip service to those who truly care about animal welfare. There is a difference between a local shop and a corporate office, but the corporate office sets the tone, and in this case they failed and two poor rabbits were abused, tormented, and then murdered in an extremely painful manner by a "good girl" who seems to have the makings of a true socio-path. The picture of her holding the dead rabbits and her huge smile speaks volumes on how truly "good" she is--and she had the manager take the picture so she could post it to her facebook account. As to PETA, I am a member, but, I don't threaten anyone or thing--that's like the abortion protester who kills the doctor. We believe in exposing wrong doing and making sure that laws are enforced so that animals can live out a full, pain free existence. We also belong to House Rabbit Society, ASPCA, HSUS, and WWF. We still can't figure out how anyone can abandon an animal, let alone torture, maim, and kill.


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## BethM (Mar 19, 2010)

I haven't stepped foot in a PetLand in several years. After I first heard of this incident, I have been telling people about it and encouraging them not to shop there, either. The whole situation disgusts me, and because of this I will NEVER shop at a PetLand again. 

I have also pretty much stopped shopping at any store that sells animals. I buy any supplies I need from stores that do not sell pets. (I get litter from Target; toys from The Busy Bunny; hay and pellets direct from American Pet Diner; etc.). There have been a couple times I needed something quickly and PetsMart was the only option, but try to plan ahead as much as possible to minimize that.


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