# Bunny smells like unwashed arm pit ?



## Fish keeper (Jan 16, 2007)

My indoor bunny cage smells bad . Ichange it every day and the smell will come back again . Iuse super premium rabbit food with Timothy hay . 
What should I do ?
:bath:


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## ani-lover (Jan 16, 2007)

you coud wash th cage down with white vinegar. also is the bun spayed or neutered? if its a boy he could be spraying.


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## Fish keeper (Jan 16, 2007)

It is a girl . I was holding her theother day and the same under arm smell was on my hands . Thecage has a slide out tray and I spray this down with Lysol then put newbedding in the tray .


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## ani-lover (Jan 16, 2007)

did she roll or play in something? is there skunuks in your area? did you try giving her a bath?


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## Fish keeper (Jan 16, 2007)

can you give a bunny a bath? And how would you do it with her sharp talons .LOL:happybunny:


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## AngelnSnuffy (Jan 16, 2007)

Maybe this is another case of scent glands needing cleaned onder:?


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## Fish keeper (Jan 16, 2007)

Seriously do they need a bath ? I don't think they taught me that one in High School or Collage .


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## AngelnSnuffy (Jan 16, 2007)

No, you shouldn't give bunnies baths.I'm sure someone will be along w/ more info, I can't exactly rememberthe reason why, sorry.


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## HoneyPot (Jan 16, 2007)

Hi there - is she spayed? She could just bescenting with her scent glands and is particularly smelly.Can you flip her over and check her scent glants (two flaps beside heranus). If you flip her over and smell her - is the smellcoming from around that area? If that is the case it islikely her scent glands. Smells kinda like old onions andgarlic - a little bit skunky.

__________
Nadia


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## Fish keeper (Jan 16, 2007)

I don't want to do that but that could just bethe case . She is not fixed / spaded . Ya it is alittle skunky .:?


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## AngelnSnuffy (Jan 16, 2007)

How old is she? Are you planning toget her spayed? You really should. Female rabbitsare likely to get cancer of the cervix and such if not spayed.


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## HoneyPot (Jan 16, 2007)

As she gets territorial about 6 months - 1 yearshe will probably start using her scent glands more to make her poopand leave it laying around so that everyone knows the area ishers. The first time I had to check Cookie's scent glands...I felt a little violated, but now it's not a big deal. They don't always need cleaning unless you take a look and they'rereally blocked up. I've really only had to do one of mybunnys once in the last 2 years...

___________
Nadia


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## Fish keeper (Jan 16, 2007)

I think it is inthe poo . For her litter smells . I know I need toget her spaded . Does this cancer happen to the wild bunnies? :shock:


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## Kawaii608 (Jan 16, 2007)

Ur not alone. My rabbit area smells soo bad too. I clean it everyday but the smell just stays.


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## katt (Jan 16, 2007)

what kind of litter are you using? someone might have a better suggestion that would help with the smell


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## AngelnSnuffy (Jan 16, 2007)

What kind of litter do you use?


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## Fish keeper (Jan 16, 2007)

I have an Eastern cotton tail rabbit. she is almost like a cat . Robin my wife savedher from a guy at a flea market from getting eaten .


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## katt (Jan 16, 2007)

he he he snuffles. . .great minds must think alike! we posted the same question at the same time!


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## Fish keeper (Jan 16, 2007)

I use newspaper . Every day I change it with no prevail .


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## MyBabyBunnies (Jan 16, 2007)

That could be your problem, newpaper sucks aslitter. Not only is it not very absorbant, but it does not help withodour what so ever. I'd suggest a pelleted wood litter such asWoodyPet, it's supposed to be great at absorbing urine and it helps alot with the smell.

I wont even use newspaper in my outdoor rabbits hutches since it almostmakes the odour stronger. But it is quite possible it is other thingslike scent glands as well.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Jan 16, 2007)

Ha Ha Katt, I just saw that!

You might want to use pelleted litter. Paper can't absorbmuch, so there will always be a smellrightafterthey use it. Try Yesterday's News or FelinePine (cat litter) and you will notice a big difference and you won'thave to clean it every single day.


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## Fish keeper (Jan 16, 2007)

:mrsthumper:Thanks for the reply I will talk toa vet tomorrow about getting her spaded . I will also changeher bedding . ( I don't think it is her bedding for I neverhad this problem once in time . ) Gotta do something if sheis gonna stay in this house . She is the bestisis


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## AngelnSnuffy (Jan 16, 2007)

Ok, so you use newspaper in the litter pan andyou have bedding in the cage? Personally, I can'tstand using bedding. Snuffles had bedding in his cage when Igot him. It stinks and then in turn, makes your bunstink, I would take that out, but it's up to you.You could get a grass matt or put something else that's soft in thecage for her to lay on.


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## Jenni (Jan 17, 2007)

I had trouble with Gretchen smelling bad and I seem to have solved the problem. She is spayed.

I changed her hay (she was eating alfalfa hay) to oat grass hay, andthen I scrub her litter tray real well and use a mild cleaner and thenrinse it with vinegar (I don't wash the vinegar out). Ibought some cage liners and lined her litter box with them and putWoody Pet on the top and then her hay. It seems to have donethe trick.

Before I would change her box everyday and she would stillsmell. Now I can change it every couple of days and she'sfine. 

Definately check on getting her spayed though.


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## aurora369 (Jan 17, 2007)

Yeah, I hate the smell of Alfafa.Especially when it gets peed on. I used it for a couple weekswith my first set of foster buns, then stopped because it smelled sobad. 


Timothy smells so much better! 

I use a wood pellet, similar to Woody Pet but just a different brand, and a fresh hand full of Timothy hay a couple times a day.

--Dawn


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## likitten007 (Jan 17, 2007)

Just a quick note -

Wild rabbits don't do well as pets - it's really not fair to keep themin captivity and they will come to resent their confines.They are in a constant state of stress. Knowledge of properdiet, housing, and handling is essential for their survival.As such t is illegal to keep wild animalsin your home forlonger than 24 hours without a permit from federal and stateauthorities. Vets are not allowed to treat wild animals as yourposession of them is "illegal".

It is also an issue of your safety as well - wild animals can carrymany parasites and other diseases that can be easily pass to you andyour other pets.

Your local wildlife rehabilitator should be able to help youout. Eastern cottontails are protected species and they willbe able to do what is best for her.

I thank you for your care and concern for this little bun - but I urgeyou to do what is best for her and you.Many people with thebest intentions simply do not know that wild animalscan'tbekept in captivity - but what is best for them is to be inthe wild - andyour local rehabilitator will be able to getinto the condition to do just that.

I've attached a few linksfrom the National WildlifeREhabilitators Association where they can help you find a rescue centrenear you,and some information on wildanimals.

I hopethese will help you do what is best for the rabbit.

National Wildlife REhabilitators Association
http://www.nwrawildlife.org/home.asp

Wild animals - "Can I keep Him? - No!"
http://www.nwrawildlife.org/page.asp?ID=110
Finding a Rehabilitator:
http://www.nwrawildlife.org/page.asp?ID=111

Here is a rehabilitator that specializes in cottontail rabbits near Atlanta:
*Georgia, Central region (Atlanta)..... 770-653-9199* 

Carolyn Karrh, Cottontail Rehab 
_[email protected]_ 
_Wildlife Species:_ wild baby cottontail rabbits only; will also take adult wild cottontail rabbits (sick or injured) 
_Comments:_ Veterinary Technician and vet student 


Lots of people in GA refer people to Melanie (below), so she can for sure refer you to the closest facility:

*Georgia, Central region (Conyers)..... 770-918-8811 or 404-624-5607 (W)* 

Melanie Haire, licensed home wildlife rehabilitator 
_Wildlife Species:_ orphaned or injured birds and mammals (esp. river otters), zoo vet tech 
_[email protected]_ 

Let us know how this goes,


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## likitten007 (Jan 17, 2007)

From http://www.nwrawildlife.org/page.asp?ID=110


Can I Keep Him? No!
If you have found a wild animal that is truly in crisis, you may befacing a dilemma. Of course, you want to do whats best for the animal,but you may find it difficult to turn him or her over to arehabilitator. Letting go can be hard when the animal is a baby. Thetemptation to care for the baby yourself may be strong. And havingeager young children in the house begging to raise him or her does notmake the decision any easier. So why cant you keep the animal? 

In almost every case, keeping a wild animal is illegal. Native wildlifespecies are protected by state laws, federal laws, or both. To keep awild animal in captivity for any length of time, for any reason,requires a special permit. Most cities and many counties have passedlocal ordinances that prevent individuals from keeping wild animals incaptivity. Many neighborhood associations or covenants also prohibitkeeping wildlife within property boundaries. 

More importantly, wild animals deserve the best possible care.Providing the proper care is challenging because each species hasspecialized needs. Orphans need special diets and formulas to growstrong and healthy. They must also learn survival skills including howto recognize and find food, how to escape predators, and how and whereto make a nest, den, or burrow before they are released back into thewild. Young animals need to be raised in the company of their own kindfor proper behavioral development. Infections, parasites, and injuriesare difficult to detect and treat in wild animals. 

There is also the welfare of your own family to consider. Wild animalscan be dangerous, especially when frightened or injured. Wildlifediseases, such as distemper, may pose a threat to companion animals,while others, including rabies, can be transmitted to humans, too.Turning the animals over to a permitted wildlife rehabilitator is thebest way to safeguard human and pet safety while providing the wildanimal with the best chance of survival. 

Most people who want to care for a wild animal themselves plan torelease the animal once it is grown or has recovered from its injuries.That is the goal of wildlife rehabilitation, but rehabilitators have anadvantage when they return their patients to the wild-they have yearsof experience in letting go. Learning to avoid becoming too attached toa patient is an important part of becoming a good wildliferehabilitator. 

If you are tempted to care for a wild animal on your own, please ask yourself these questions first: 



What is the best thing I can do for this animal? 


If Im having a hard time letting go of the animal now, how will I feel after Ive really grown attached? 


Am I prepared to deal with the legal and financial consequences ofkeeping a wild animal illegally? How will I feel if the animal isdiscovered, confiscated, and possibly euthanized? 


Can I be certain that, once Ive released the animal back to thewild, it will be capable of surviving on its own? Am I providing thebest possible chance for survival? 


How will I feel if the animal does not survive or is permanently impaired by improper care?


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## Pipp (Jan 17, 2007)

Hey Fish, missed thisearlier.Was the bunny born wild or incaptivity? How long have you had her and how old isshe?Are you sure she's a she? Is this thesame bunny you had when you signed on last year? If you'vehad her all this time, obviously letting her go isn't realistic, andeven if she's a newcomer, if you got her from a flea market, it'sprobably no longer an option to return her to thewild. Andif she's turned in to a rehab,they may 'humanely' put her down. 

Personally, while I'll always recommend returning wild baby rabbits tothe nestor making ever effort to return healthyadults tothe wild, butif that didn'thappeninitiallyand they've survived this long, Isay keep 'em. 

You'll find opposition from both sides on wild bunnies -- the breedershate wild rabbits as pets because they can pass on diseases to domesticrabbits, and rescue people believe they should be free and notcaged. 

I don't agree that being caged is worse than being dead(EDIT:if there's a very large cage and/or a freerun situation), and there are several members on this listwithwild rabbits who have made the transition to houserabbitsvery well. They'll never be the cuddle bunsthe our domesticEuropean buns are, but that's a negative forthe owner, not the rabbit. Rabbits living in the wild arejust as frightened (by everything) and the things that frighten themoutside are a lot more dangerous. The life expectancy of awild rabbit is something like nine, maybe elevenmonths.

It is illegal to own them in many areas, so make sure you trust the vet(although I can't imagine them being so officious as to turn you in,but you never know). But they probably won't want to spayher. Has she seen a vet before?

As for the stinky part, hopefully one of our wild slaves will chime inhere, I don't know if there's a difference, but you do have todetermine the cause.Is she having softpoops? If may be cecals that aresmelly, you mayhave to increase the hay and grasses and decrease thepellets. If it's her pee, are you sure she's getting enoughwater? She'll do better with a big clean crock, not a waterbottle. If it's the analglands, cleaning them on awild rabbit may be a challenge.If it's the litter,I use the same wood stove/horse stall pine pellets thatAurorauses, mine don't smell at all. (And I only use itinthe litter box, not as bedding). 

Keep us up to date!  



sas


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## ec (Jan 17, 2007)

There are no easy fixes for this situation - andin most states here in the US, it *is* illegal to own (or keep) wildanimals and birds.

I don't believe all rehabbers would choose to put down a wild bun thathad lived in captivity for this long - I've seen rehabbers who keepinjured wild rabbits post about that on EB. The key there is that theyknow the rabbits (and, in some cases hares - jackrabbits) will alwaysbe wild and try to adjust living situations accordingly. 

I think there's a fine balance to be struck in cases like this one, andthat more than a few for the wildife people would be sympathethic towhat's going on. Also, as they know a great deal about the nature andbehavior of N. American wild rabbits, I would *definitely* want toconsult on that basis alone - our domesticated buns are a wholedifferent ballgame.

This is, I think, especially important when dealing with N. Americanspecies, as they're quite different than oryctolagus cunniculus(European wild _and_ domestic rabbits) - they are not social, theydo *not* live in groups, etc. And, given that they'renot in the least domesticated, their hard-wired responses to manysituations are going to be far, far different than those of pet rabbitsin similar conditions. 

I'm not saying this to fault anyone for having kept a wild rabbit - youhave to work from where you are now. But it might be of some benefit tothose who *are* facing a predicament with wild baby rabbits - or wildanimals/birds of any kind.

Something to think about, for sure....


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## Pipp (Jan 17, 2007)

*ec wrote: *


> Thereare no easy fixes for this situation - and in most states here in theUS, it *is* illegal to own (or keep) wild animals and birds.


I think it should be, too. No argumentfrom me. 

ec* wrote: *


> I don't believe all rehabberswould choose to put down a wild bun that had lived in captivity forthis long - I've seen rehabbers who keep injured wild rabbits postabout that on EB ... Also, as they know a greatdeal about the nature and behavior of N. American wild rabbits, I would*definitely* want to consult on that basis alone - ourdomesticated buns are a whole different ballgame..



Yeah, but once you tell the rehabber that you have the rabbit, if theyarenot sympathetic, it can't be unsaid. Use adifferent name and block the call. 

ec* wrote: *


> This is, I think, especiallyimportant when dealing with N. American species, as they're quitedifferent than oryctolagus cunniculus (European wild _and_domestic rabbits) - they are not social, they do *not* live ingroups, etc. And, given that they're not in the leastdomesticated, their hard-wired responses to many situations are goingto be far, far different than those of pet rabbits in similarconditions.



Interesting point, thanks. 

ec* wrote: *


> I'm not saying this to faultanyone for having kept a wild rabbit - you have to work from where youare now. But it might be of some benefit to those who *are* facing apredicament with wild baby rabbits - or wild animals/birds of any kind.



Yes, not all that relevant to the current thread, but it's allgood. My main reason for being vehemently against trying tokeepa wild oneis they almost neversurvive. The life span in the wild may be a mere 11 months,but the mortality rate when trying to raise a wild baby (or adult forthat matter) is ridiculously high. I think I'veseenmaybe one in 10 survive the first week,one in20 survive the first month. 

But I don't think much of a fuss should be raised over a survivorliving comfortably in someone's home. There's just nopoint. 

sas


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## Pipp (Jan 17, 2007)

Oh, and Fish, definitely lose the Lysol (I wasjust talking to a friend today whose bunny got sick from the stuff) andgo with vinegar. That's the best and safestdeodorizer. (Has anybody said that yet? Ah yes,Jenni!).

And does anybody know if there's any more risk spaying a cottontail vs.a domestic? It may not besomethingyourvet will know, so it may be worth it to make thatanonymous call to a rehabberas well. 



sas


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 17, 2007)

Hi all, I got word of this little bunny delima and thought I'd throw in my 2 cents for what it's worth 

First, Lysol is DEADLY as are some of the wood bedding. usethe vinegar, get some pelleted litter like Woody Pet or something, andthen I dump the boxes every 2 to 3 days. I just don't put alot of litter in each time.

Now, a wild bunny is going to smell a bit more than a domestic one.

A wild bunny will not be as tame as a domestic bunny and sometimes they don't live but...... I have one as well.

Keeping a wild cottontail may be illegal in your state. Youshould know this and get the answers. I talked to aveterinarian about fixing Clover's leg and he said he'd just put her"out of her misery" - OVER MY DEAD BODY! I bottle fed thisbaby and did everything to keep her alive and he wanted to put herdown. :shock:

Cottontails can carry a diseases that are mostly a concern if someone is a hunter.

Do you know if your bunny is male or female? because males might smell a bit worse also.

Otherwise, they're fine - I don't recommend keeping one, but given thecircumstances - like Clover getting injured and too disabled to beturned out - she's happy and healthy. I've never in my lifeseen a bunny binky as fast and wild as Clover does! Even with a badleg, she's a hoot! 

I also know someone who has a desert cottontail who was saved and he ishappy and healthy. Still, they aren't ones to be picked upand loved on. She will take food, chin our fingers, kiss onthe cat :disgust:........... as you can see she wouldn't beok outside.


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 17, 2007)

Oh, and my Bo (mini-rex) gets stinkybutt! It's those scent glands. He gets like a waxybuildup in them sometimes..... OMG my daughter and I nearly puked whenwe cleaned them! use some vapor-rub on your nose LOL! 

I used a q-tip and mineral oil. It's still a bitoily but he smells like a new man!


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## Kadish Tolesa (Jan 17, 2007)

Hi Fish keeper, I had to read this post when Isaw the title.....Hope all goes well with yourbun. We "saved" a cottontail from our dog ;when we werechildren. I brought it in the house in the basement to see ifit was injured.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c0c0c0"Well. it was swarming with fleasand didn't seem to be hurt. When we let it go in a few minutes, it ranoff into the woods. ( Jumping for joy, no doubt !) 

We use Woody Pet for the indoor bun. ( there's only one at the moment ) It works well for masking odors. 

Just out of curiousity; what kind of fish do you have ? I have a few Bettas and of course my blue "lobsters".

Kadish Tolesa urplepansy:


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## likitten007 (Jan 17, 2007)

*Pipp wrote: *


> Anddoes anybody know if there's any more risk spaying a cottontail vs. adomestic? It may not besomething yourvetwill know, so it may be worth it to make that anonymous call to arehabberas well.


Veterinarians cannot legally treat a wild animal - as the possession of a wild animal is illegal.

Well-put EC - I agree with everything you have said.

As a rehabber myself - I can say that most of us will not put down ananimal just because it is imprinted. Rehabbers know how towork with animals and do the best they can to *teach* them how to bewild again. In most cases, this is possible, in others it isnot. It all depends on the animal.

We have had rabbits come into our care that are partially imprinted,and would be unable to thrive in the wild. Where we can,rehabbers can often find placements for them, sanctuaries, in a placewhere the proper permits (federal and state/provincial) are in place;where the animal will receive proper care.

The other amazing thing is to witness an animal being released into thewild- after it's long journey through rehabilitation - mostrehabilitators welcome you to take part in the release. It's one of thebest parts of their job to share this joy with others. You'llnever experience anything like it!

I strongly urge you to contact you local rehabilitator - they have theknowledge and expertise to know what is best for this animal.Keeping wild animals is illegal - and there is a reason for this - itis simply not fair to the animal; or to you! As EC said, this isn't toblame you at all - just some adivce to try and do what's best for thisbun.You saved him from imminent death at the meat market(yuck), and for that I thank you.


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 17, 2007)

Had Clover's hip not been so bad, we'd haveturned back wild. We kept her away from everyone andeverything as much as we could and now she's not as friendly as shemight have been had we held her more, etc. Honestly, I wouldhave wanted that for her. My mom had 5 little babies one timeand she turned them out - they had so much fun "zipping" through thepark she released them in. 

I didn't know at the time all the laws. Still, I believe shewas meant to be with me. her leg would have given her animmediate death sentence. She uses it, but it's notright. 

Now, nearly a year later and several gender checks.... she's a she andher best friend is a guinea pig and she sleeps with a stuffed puppy. She looks at Bo as if he is crazy when he presents himselfto her for grooming; I swear she rolls her eyes! But they getalong when I put them in a pen to play together.

I still am amazed she lived. She had a puncture in her legfrom the dog. About a month or two later, this abcess thatran the length of her leg burst - I didn't even know it was there untilthat! I just washed it and left it alone. I thoughtshe'd die for sure. She didn't. 

The vet who told me they'd put her down was a teaching vet. Ihad asked if he might like to take her so that the students could doher surgery and learn from her. He wasn't interested.....even if he could have gotten clearance. 

it's not illegal for all vets to treat them. Some of theexotics vets do that, but are required to report and turn them over torehabs. 

OH and I meant wood SHAVINGS not wood pellets can bedangerous! I travel 1/2 hour one way to get my WoodyPet nowthat Tractor Supply Quit carrying it!


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## Pipp (Jan 17, 2007)

*likitten007 wrote:*


> I strongly urge you to contact you local rehabilitator -they have the knowledge and expertise to know what is best for thisanimal. Keeping wild animals is illegal - and there is areason for this - it is simply not fair to the animal; or to you! As ECsaid, this isn't to blame you at all - just some adivce to try and dowhat's best for this bun.You saved him from imminent death atthe meat market (yuck), and for that I thank you.



My point in all this is that if Fish has had this bunny since last falland wasn't the first 'owner', and the bunny seems happy enough (judgingfrom the post), then why mess with it.But onequestion I'd like to see answered is if a wild bunny will lose the'edge' _if released after prolonged captivity with a lot of humaninteraction_. Just a split second delay in the woods whenapproached by a human with a gun can be the difference.

I remember when Bo found Clover, shedid make a point of notinteracting with her in order to make the transistion back to thewild. This has not been the case with this bunny. 

I also wonder about the constant exposure to noise in the homeenvironment and to a lesser extent the different scents, and immunityissues.It takes so little to make a bunnythe one that gets caught as prey over the ones that survive.

Any studies on this? 

sas

Oh, and great contact and other info, Likitten, I'd probably find myanswers there if I had the time. Very informative,even if I do feel it's just simply too late in this case.Itwasn't really the question Fish was asking, but this threadwill probably be a good one for the Resource Center for the Wild Bunnysection as well as the stinky bunny section. (I don't thinkwe'll bother with a 'stinky wild bunny' section).


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 17, 2007)

PIPP you bring up something very interesting Ihave noticed with Clover. She has gotten less and less afraidof our dog. A dog is how she was hurt in the firstplace. Now, she'll stick her nose out of her cage to myAussie. That sort of shocked me when she did it.

She is also in LOVE with the television. She loves to havepeople talk to her - especially me. She also does thisclicking thing with her teeth at night when it's quiet. If Iclick to her, she'll click. It's literally her tapping herteeth together and it sounds like the click of a computermouse. I swear she does this when I am on the computer too! 

Anyhow, I think that is what made me realize she'd never go into thewild - she wouldn't be as afraid as she should be - and then herleg. Sometimes I see all the wild ones playing in the fieldsand I want that for her, but she's got us and Bo and Pig so that'sbetter than being eaten.

When we take the horses out in the spring and they play in the yard -we always find baby bunnies. I tell people all the time"DON"T TOUCH THEM! their mom is around!" People always thinkthey are abandoned. :?I even went to my daughter'sschool once because I heard the kids were messing with a nest on theplayground. I told the principal a thing or two when sheallowed a child to take a baby home and it got killed by their dog! :X


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## Pipp (Jan 17, 2007)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


>


I wuv little Cwover bun!! :inlove: 

Thanks for the input, Bo! Great info. :thanks:

And hey, we miss you around here! :hug:



sas  and the gang :bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance:


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 17, 2007)

Aww thanks pipp! You know I ampassionate when it comes to the bunnies - wild or domestic! The wildones are not something to take lightly as you point out so well - theyjust don't survive as well as if they are with their own. Ican tell that Clover isn't as big as she would have been in thewild. She eats well tho! :shock:She eats more thanBo and he's twice her weight - she's longer I think.

Cwoverbunny says hello! and "got a cwaisen?" 



note: yes, we call her Cwoverbunny - cause _she_ talks like that. She has trouble with "L's and R's".


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## Jenni (Jan 17, 2007)

These little wild bunnies seem happy andhealthy!! While, you shouldn't go and capture a wild bun as a pet, ifone has been nursed back to health and saved from certain suffering anddeath, and is happy and healthy, I can't see how anyone can disapprove.

I rescued an adolescent bun from a cat's jawsonetime. I called the wildlife people and they told me to set itfree near where I found it. The next night, I heard itscreaming, went outside, and saw it bloody running through thewoods. It didn't have a chance. I know I did theright thing, but sometimes I wish I would have kept it.
:cry4:


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 17, 2007)

Jenni, that's something important too - he wasprobably weakened by the cat situation and predatory animals can sensethat about the ones they are chasing..... 

It's all about common sense and realistic situations. I think sometimes we get too tied up with the "red tape".....


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## ec (Jan 17, 2007)

Sas (and all), I deeply appreciate seeing inputfrom an experienced rehabber on this thread - and strongly believe thatthe things they've said are *very* relevant, as the thread isn'tabout a domestic bunny, but a wild one living with humans.

Again, no moral judgements meant on my part - but there are some majorethical issues here that can't really be ducked, and your comment re.spaying *wild* bunnies sort of pushes the stakes a bit higher.


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## Pipp (Jan 17, 2007)

*ec wrote: *


> Again,no moral judgements meant on my part - but there are some major ethicalissues here that can't really be ducked, and your comment re. spaying*wild* bunnies sort of pushes the stakes a bit higher.


I didn't have a comment about spaying, I had a question.That's an odd interpretation.It was recommended asan option by posters before the 'wild' part came up. I shareyour concerns. 

I really agree with the red tape comment. And I'm REALLY notmaking judgements in this thread, but I find that an awful lot ofpeople involved in rescue work spend an awful lot of timeonsweepinggeneralities and yes, 'ethics', and notenough onthe realities of individual cases. Inother words, they seem to want to spend a LOT of timearguing.I'm sorry, but I just don't find thatproductive.

Some great information has come out in this thread, though.

sas


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## likitten007 (Jan 17, 2007)

This is a really good discussion!

SAS - there's some really good info out there on rehabilitating (not just *wabbits*) animals that have had human contact. We contstantly get animals in that people have had for weeks (or months).But most people really are doing their best, they just don't know - and it's always harder to treat injuries and wounds that have been sitting painfully for a long time. It's alsov. difficult to judge when a wild animal is 'happy' or content - a lot of thing we assoicate with being content, are also signs of shock and chronic stress; but it's a judgment call. One gull came in-the a finder had raised for 6 weeks (ugh....how she last that long with all the poop in her home is beyond me), but because he didn't have a proper diet his bones were brittle, underdeveloped, and feathering in poor poor condition (among other things).

You're right Bo B Bunny - vets can't treat and return an animal to the finder - they have to give them to a rehabber, and can only keep them for a specified length of time so that domestic patients aren't endangered. I should have clarified. I think I was thinking along the lines of a speuter. We have one clinic that is open 24hrs that will hold an animal for us for a few hours (e.g. until we re-open in the morning), stablize etc.,until a volunteer can get to the area to transport it to us. 

Back to the question re: prolongued human interaction - 
A rehabber would never ever release an animal that they did not think could evade a predator etc.Animal kept by humanslearn whaat is and isn't dangerous, and this can bere-taught.When an animal comes in like this (I can't speak for every rehabber), they are isolated, have minimal human contact, any interaction (e.g. the animal coming toward you when the pen is opened)is discouraged. Much like conditioning (well, exactly like conditioning). You gradually see the animal return to it's natural state. It happens quite fast in animals that weren't in care as young babies (e.g. first few days of life). 

When centres get in birds or animals easily imprinted at a young age,staff wear masks, etc. (You have no idea how hard it is tofeed a baby raven or gull using a puppet)!

So long story - short answer - the job of rehabbers is to give themback that "edge". They are often successful, and the animal has to go through a variety of tests (behavioural) prior to release to mnake sure it is in proper condition/form. About a month ago we admitted a squirrel that had been kept by the finder and bottle fed since he was a baby - at first he was so so overly friendly.Now he just as growly and evasive as a *normal* squirrel.Almost ready to go!

Oh Jenni - I'm so sorry - you did do the right thing.Sometimes you have to remember (this is hard for me too), that theremight have been some reason that the bun had been picked off by the dog(natural selection etc.) in the first place. Even if it wasnt' injured,it's survival of the fittest out there.The otherthing is, it may have had some minor injuries (often hard to tell overthe phone etc.), causing the animal to be either in shock, or it's bodyshunting resources toward healing rather than "fight or flight"responses. Regardless, you did your best, that's all anyonecan do.

Anyways, maybe just give a rehabber a call, they can give you advice(they would know more about american legislation than I do), and maybedirect you to a sanctuary of some sort. 

In the end everyone has to make their own decisions. Keepingwild animals in captivity is one of those topics that I tend to findquiteupsetting andbe very sensitive of(comes withthe job), so I think I'll stay hands off from hear on out. Ihope that the information I've provided will be of some help inassisting people in these situations make decisions. Feel free to pm meif anyone is looking for info in this field.

P.S. I still laugh at the title of this thread. SAS, here'sthe link to the WRNBC (Wildlife Rehabilitators Network of BritishColumbia. The website has a list of local rehab centres inB.C. etc., and there is lots of info on thepages (as well ason the pages of those centres) on what to do if you find ananimal.http://www.wrn.bc.ca/
The International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council is http://www.iwrc-online.org/


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## ec (Jan 18, 2007)

Sas, I know you're in rescue, etc. - it's justthat (like likiten007) this subject does hit some nerves for me, and Ifeel uncomfortable with the suggestions about anonymous calls and theassumption that rehabbers would kill an animal that had become evenslightly accustomed to humans. The latter seems to be very much*against* the ethics rehabbers are taught (or are supposed to betaught), though I realize that everyone has their own views, and thatin both rehab and rescue there are few absolutes; also that all of usmake bad decisions at times. (I'll put myself first in line here!)

I'm not intending to sound critical of anyone - but I have seenfrustration elsewhere, when someone who's "rescued" infant wild babieshas been angry at the idea of release, thinking that their effortswould "be lost" (or something like that). Equally, many of theresponses they were getting were entirely from a pet rabbit owners'persepective, and didn't have much of anything to do with the nature,behavior and psychology of wild rabbits.

I honestly can't imagine how difficult it must be to make the decisionsthat rescuers have to make (speaking of both domestic rabbit rescue andof wildlife rehab). 

Anecdote: A few summers ago, a young wild rabbit (Eastern Cottontail)kept coming very, very close to me, out in my front yard. It wouldapproach as boldly as my pet rabbit does now, but then shy away aftergetting within less than 12 inches' distance. I was fascinated by thisrabbit, and wanted to follow it - it almost let me reach out to touchit numerous times. But I did hold back, and the rabbit shied away, too.This happened many times. I'm sure it had been hand-reared andreleased. 

But even though it looked and seemed to act like a pet bunny, itwasn't. I'm so glad I didn't follow through on my impulse to touch thisanimal, or interfere with it in any way. (Believe me, I thought aboutit at times - trying to offer a treat, etc.) After a certain point, inever saw it again - and I have no idea whether it survived (lots ofdogs here) or not. But I'd like to believe that it did, and that itfound living in the brush to be ultimately more satisfying than tryingto hang out with humans. (FWIW, all kinds of wildlife traipses intothis neighborhood on a fairly regular basis - even bears, during theirmating season! And people *do* try to mess with them, which isdangerous and crazy.)

I don't think it would surprise you to know that I've consideredvolunteering to assist a rehabber and/or (at very least) making a visitto one of the rehabbers in my area.

I'll bow out of this discussion (which has been excellent, i think)now, too - hope this post helps clarify/explain where I'm coming from.


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## Fish keeper (Jan 18, 2007)

Man ... I don't know where to start . Been away from the computer for so long .:shock:
The bunny is the same one we bought last year . The man mywife bought the bunny breads the rabbits . So when we got hertiny rabbit self we could hold her in our hand .
Yes she is a girl . I am 30 years old and know that she is ... I will just leave it at that .
I like to turn her over and cradle her in my arms like ababy and use my fore finger to stroke up and down her nose .She is content and have had her outside a few times and she didn't runaway . At least for now anyway she hasn't run away. I know she will later though if we don't get her spaded. Any way the only thing I can say is I love my bunny bunny.



And for the person who asked me about my fish outtacuriosity . I have 3 tanks one 75 US gal , and two20 US gal tanks . My home page is a link to my web site. The only thing I don't have on it is one of our20 gal tanks . It is a planted tank with a Betta fish , Bluedwarf Gourami , and a algae eater . Iwill see if the link works .


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## Fish keeper (Jan 18, 2007)

http://www.freewebs.com/expertfishkeeper/
You can copy the link and paste it into your address bar to see two of the three tanks . 
I am done talking about that and back to bunny bunny business .:bunnydance:


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## katt (Jan 18, 2007)

not to be rude and question this, but are yousure your rabbit is a wild bunny and not simply a chestnut coloreddwarf (or some mix of dwarf)?

i only ask because you said that your wife got your bun from a man thatbreeds rabbits and i have never known anyone to breed a pair of wildrabbits. . .or maybe i am missing something. . . please correct me if iam wrong.


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## Haley (Jan 18, 2007)

*Fish keeper wrote:*


> Man ... I don't know where to start . Been awayfrom the computer for so long .:shock:
> The bunny is the same one we bought last year . The man mywife bought the bunny breads the rabbits . So when we got hertiny rabbit self we could hold her in our hand .
> 
> I like to turn her over and cradle her in my arms like ababy and use my fore finger to stroke up and down her nose .She is content and have had her outside a few times and she didn't runaway . At least for now anyway she hasn't run away. I know she will later though if we don't get her spaded. Any way the only thing I can say is I love my bunny bunny .


Wow..this has become a very interesting thread re: wild bunnies aspets. Im no expert, and Im just going by my gut, but if this rabbit wasborn and raised by humans and has lived with humans all its life, I'dsay it should not be released into the wild. 

I know its illegal to keep a cottontail and all that, but in this case,I just cannot see how releasing her would be in her best interest.

I would however, report the guy who is breeding cottontails to your local authority!


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## Fish keeper (Jan 18, 2007)

It is like pics of eastern cotton tail rabbitbut the ears are long and slender . They are strate and are not floppyin any way . When she stretches out she is about 3 and a halffoot long easy . Big back feet . She has neverpounded the ground to show she was mad and I don't think she even has amad streak in her .


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## katt (Jan 18, 2007)

any chance do you have a photo of her?


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## Fish keeper (Jan 18, 2007)

I don't have one but ill try to get you one tomorrow .


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## bluebird (Jan 18, 2007)

I have heard this same story before also the itsgoing to be fed too snakes if you dont buy it story.I think the guy atthe flea market likes too make up stories.bluebird


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## Fish keeper (Jan 18, 2007)

http://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c109/robert321/different/


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## katt (Jan 18, 2007)

is it me or is this bun a little to big to be a wild cottontail?







(i hope you don't mind that i placed one of the photos up for people to see without needed to click the link).

what does everyone think?


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## Pipp (Jan 18, 2007)

Heh! She looks domestic to me! (After all that!) :lol

(I'm no expert tho).



sas


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## Haley (Jan 18, 2007)

She doesnt look wild to me at all :disgust:...

Do we have any experts here?


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## MyBabyBunnies (Jan 18, 2007)

That rabbit doesn't look wild to me. I have afeeling the people who bred her had no idea what breed her parents wereand since the coloring is similar to wild rabbits, they just assumedthey were wild. I've never seen a cottontail that big.


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## katt (Jan 18, 2007)

you know, the more i think about it, the more her being a wild rabbit doesn't make sense.

because if a breeder was raising meat rabbits, why raise cottontails?they don't get very big, and there are many more breeds of domesticrabbit that reach high weights.

i would be interested to find out the weight of this rabbit.

plus you can see the difference between this bun in question and BBB's wild little bun, clover.

fish keeper- you bunny looks a little too large, and a little to stockyto be a wild gal, plus her overall general appearance looks more like adomestic rabbit. . .

i would guess she is simply a mix breed rabbit, possibly a satin mix?


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## Haley (Jan 18, 2007)

I knowa lot of people who say theythink their bunny may be "part wild". They see that agouti coloring andassume its from having a wild bunny parent.

Fishkeeper, I also noticed you said something about letting heroutside. Please make sure she is always in a safe and enclosed area.Wild or not, if she gets loose she will not be capable of taking careof herself. She would most likely end up roadkill or something'sdinner. If you want to take her outside, a lot of members have builtvery safe pens and runs for the bunny. 

I really think shes domestic though, I would get her to a vet for a checkup and also get her spayed asap.

PS..Shes very very cute!


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## Jenni (Jan 18, 2007)

I don't think she's wild either. Shelooks just like Gretchen. Gretchen has the agouti coloringand looks just like the wild bunnies in Europe, but she is actually 1/2Dutch and 1/2 rex.

American wild rabbits are smaller and a bit scruffy looking. She's looks way too refined to be wild.


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 18, 2007)

Not to be rude, but I don't think she's acottontail either. She's too big. Clover is tinyand I know for sure she's a cottontail. She was "snagged" bymy sister's dog in her yard where a nest was....... Clover maybe weighs2 pounds and is maybe 2 feet COMPLETELY stretched out. Didyour bunny ever have a white diamond on her forehead? Theyall have that for at least a year.

your bunny looks like a satin mix to me honestly.

In my avatar, you see a green puppy laying next to her - it's the size of a beanie baby.

If you see here, she's with our small guinea pig in a small cage.


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 18, 2007)

*katt wrote: *


> i would guess she is simply a mix breed rabbit, possibly a satin mix?


WOW I just read this and she does doesn't she? I love red satins and she just reminds me of one.


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## Pipp (Jan 18, 2007)

Bo, seeing these posts, I just can't get over what a great job you've done with Clover. :happydance

I tried really hard not to get attached or even emotionally involvedback when you found her and for quite awhile afterwards because thepotential pitfalls were so numerous and frightening -- even for peoplewith experience. Buteverything you've done musthave been so right, it's worked out SO well! She's got such agreat life!:hug1

And Fish? :threadhijacked: Sorry 'boutthat! But enjoy your little bunny. She'sadorable! And no problem getting her spayed, it's healthierin the long run, stinky pit smell or not. 

Let us know how it goes!



sas


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 18, 2007)

Thanks PIPP  I tried not to getattached also and when I brought her in, I told the hubby she wouldn'tlive, but I wanted to make her comfy while she was around.Now, she's spoiled rotten! I don't know how we managed tokeep her going, but she had to be a fighter with that place that endedup an abcess and all. 

Fish, I'm sorry too that we sorta went off track here, but I reallyhope I've helped by showing you my little baby girl. 

Did I mention she came to me the day after Easter last year? I think the Easter Bunny knew I'd love her to pieces no matter! 

Your bunny is so pretty! I hope you can get all things workedout. I'd definitely check her scent glands. I betthey need cleaned...... BUT..... thinking of what you say smells - Bosmelled like garlic and onion to me when he would scent his poos on meat his maturity - he loved me and made sure everyone knew it!pEEEEEE uuuuuuUUUUU! He also would nip at me if I ate onion andgarlic! I am sure he thought it was another bunny! 

Anyhow, she's probably just reached that age and she's scentingeverything to make sure you know how much she loves you and your home!lol!

This is Clover when she came to me


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## MyBoyHarper (Jan 18, 2007)

Definitely does not look wild (and is definitelynot a cottontail. WAY too big). Looks like an ordinary mix breed rabbitwith "wild" coloration. Pretty rabbit though!

Also, I seen you mentioned earlier about her being outside sometimesbut not running off "yet". Is she in a secure pen or fenced in yardwhen outside? Make sure she is secured at all times. If she was to everrun off, she would never survive on her own. 

I own 3 rabbits (my oldest I've had for over 2 years) and we have alarge fenced in yard. Each time before the bunnies go out to play, theyard is checked over for ANY escape holes, or any possible places theycould escape. If it's bigger than a mouse hole, we secure it for theirsafety.

To be on the safe side, however, I usually walkthem on theirharness inside of the fenced in yard. I put the harness on and let themrun with a 16 foot retractable leash. I'd die if my rabbits everescaped, better to be safe than sorry!


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## ec (Jan 19, 2007)

I'm with everyone who thinks this bun is amixed-breed domestic - besides, North American wild rabbits are of adifferent species than our pet buns/European wild rabbits. They couldmate, but can't carry to term, as they don't have the same number ofchromosomes...

I've always liked the agouti coloring, too.

BTW, very pretty rabbit!


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 19, 2007)

I love agouti coloring also, ec! My mini-rex is a castor. 

Is there some information link about the breeding issue? The reason Iask is that there seem to be a breed cross group in my area.Could be something I'm not aware we have tho. 

I was suprised to see a swamp rabbit! Indiana doesn't reallyhave those unless you get down by the Ohio river.


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## naturestee (Jan 19, 2007)

Yup, definately domestic! The "wild" agouti coloring is common in many domestic breeds.

Bo, I can't look it up because I'm at work, but check the Morfz RabbitReferences website about the domestic/cottontail breedingthing. They can't breed, and aren't even in the same family.


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 19, 2007)

That's interesting. I always thoughtthey had mated with wild ones but I bet they are just domestics thathave gotten out. They really aren't cottontails or swamprabbits.


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## Fish keeper (Jan 19, 2007)

Well that's good that she is not a wild rabbit. It would be hard to give her to a rehabilitater .I so thought she was a wild rabbit with the tail and all .Well that's ok for we love her any way . Thanks for all ofthe help and hope I can be of some help someday .

Cheers.:bunnydance:


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## ec (Jan 19, 2007)

Re. the Morfz site, all the articles on wild rabbits are here:

http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/rabcare.html#lago


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## NZminilops (Jan 19, 2007)

In a way, you're lucky to not have europeanrabbits as your wild rabbits there. Our wild rabbits can and do matewith our domestic rabbits. It's illegal to keep the offspring thoughhow anyone can tell that they aren't just slightly ugly domestics Ihave no idea!


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## ec (Jan 19, 2007)

Here's a good page comparing the different types of N. American rabbits with European rabbits, including number of chromosomes:

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Biology/interbreeding.PDF


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## Fish keeper (Jan 19, 2007)

Why is keeping a wild rabbit an illegal thing. I can under stand why keeping a Rattle snake and aWolf etc . But why something like Peter Cotton Tail. LOL


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## Fish keeper (Jan 19, 2007)

I had to post two pics . I have to get a bigger cage . She just loves her stuffies .:bunnydance:


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 19, 2007)

Well, I know one reason is that some cottontailscarry a disease that can be very dangerous. Usually thedisease is contracted by hunters - not from live rabbits, butcarcus. It is something I've discussed with the kids andhubby for any wild situation. I don't think Clover would haveit at this point.


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## ec (Jan 19, 2007)

I think the reasoning behind the laws againstkeeping wild animals and birds as pets is simply that they *are*wild, not domesticated. "Wild" covers so many things - fromcarrying diseases to their basic makeup and nature. 

So, no groundhogs, chipmunks (cheeky things!) or squirrels as pets, either - all cute animals that wouldn't hurt a soul. 

(Also, I wanted to say that I'd be torn in two if I'd rescued a wildbun from real danger and would be *very* tempted to keep him/her... Ican understand why others have, especially in true rescue situations.)


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 19, 2007)

My mom had a baby chipmunk run in front of hercar one time - and I'm not kidding - it barely had fur and its eyesweren't open!! Of course she stopped and picked it up. Wethought she'd never live..... this was a major road and we didn't knowhow she ended up on it!! 

Tazzy was in a large cage where she could see everything outside andwas very happy - she stayed because she was too friendly by the timeMom could have released her. She played with the dogs andlicked jelly off our fingers.... but she wasn't completely tameeither. 

Sometimes there are no good answers, but Taz lived 7 or 8 years!!!that's a long time for a chipmunk and she was taken very good careof. We still miss her. Mom didn't know at that timeshe couldn't keep her either - she found out like 3 years intoit. I was the one who found out and told her. Bythen it was just too late even if we could have reconditioned herearlier. 

Wild animals never tame - not completely. Clover lives withus on her terms..... if she didn't she'd be miserable and if she wasout she'd be long dead. 

In all honesty, I think she came to us for a reason. Mydaughter is seriously thinking about becoming an exotics' vet oneday. My son has also showed an interest. We onlyhave one we really like in this area and it's a very popular opinionregarding most of them here... My daughter is the only person who canactually reach into Clover's cage and pet her. She will onlytake treats from her if it's direct - if we hand them to her THROUGHthe cage she'll take them from the rest of us. I have to letmy daughter get her so I can trim her nails and stuff. Shehas a way with them and I think Clover is going to play a roll in whatmy daughter ends up doing. I truly believe there are reasonsthat certain animals come into our lives 
I didn't take on Clover lightly - I knew that if she did live it waseither let her go or I might end up with a wild rabbit. Shenever has offered to bite but has scratched me.

I would NEVER recommend keepinga wild animal like acottontail or chipmunk. I think it's something that onlycertain people can do - and I knew my sister was NOT one of them......she had no clue as to how a rabbit should be fed or anything!Clover would have died for sure. I still don't think she'lllive long, but we will love herand make her as happy aspossible while she's with us.


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## ec (Jan 20, 2007)

It certainly sounds like you *are* loving Clover and making her as happy as possible - what a wonderful story!

Your story about Tazzy is amazing, too.


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 20, 2007)

Thanks. I sure don't discourage helping animals,but I don't want to give the wrong ideas to people. I don'tthink it's fair to the ones who can be wild like they were meant tobe. That should be the first thing considered.

We live in a rural area. Lots of people have largeexotics. Deer, Elk, big cats, etc. are seen allover. I feel bad for a lot of them cause they aren't domestictype exotics.


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## karona (Jan 20, 2007)

Definate no on the cotton tail. I work for theOSPCA and that is no cotton tail. I agree that she is a satin mix. Asfor her being fed to snakes, we get this story so much we jsut shakeourheads. At markets they are being sold for non petpurposes, however at the end of the day these people will say anythingto make a sale. I am glad you have her however because she isbeautiful.:bunnydance:


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## FreezeNkody (Jan 23, 2013)

lysol!?! I'd use Vinegar and water not chemicals


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## BinkyBunny (Jan 23, 2013)

I'm sorry I don't have a solution, but this title made me bust a gust laughing :biggrin2:


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## Paddy Ohara (Feb 15, 2013)

I have given her a bath before out of desperation, not sure what she got into but her but was dirty and babywipes were not working. I would recommend doing it when it is warm it takes a long time to dry. She loves to play in water so it was really easy for me. I just filled the tub with a little water and Dawn dish soap. I have seen waterless shampoo before but I am not sure how well it works.


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## Troller (Feb 15, 2013)

Thread is six years old. Not saying the info wouldn't be handy, but who know what ghat rabbit is up to these days.


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## Cartoonist 35 (Feb 16, 2013)

A bath !!! if so dry clean the bunny as for cage use hot bleech water and rinse very well.
serious don't ever give a bunny a wet bath , i'm sure the petsore carries dry clean stuff for bunnies like cats they hate getting wet.


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