# Substitute for Timothy Hay



## ruka (Dec 28, 2005)

My dad recently took an allergy test to find outwhat he has been so allergic to. Before he took the test, we alreadyknew he was highly allergic to cats; he would break out into hives andswell. Well, the results show that he is even MORE allergic to timothy!I've been keeping the timothy hay out of my dad's way, but the girlsare indoors and there's hay in there 24/7. (To add to that, my dad camedown with pneumonia a couple months ago and just had a lung biopsy acouple Fridays ago to see what the pneumonia was caused by. Now my dadthinks it's the timothy hay and/or mold. (We live in a pretty damp areaand the mold grows on our leather couch and on my mom's leatherpurses.))

He said if he still allergic to the new hay, I have to keep the rabbitsoutside (which I do not want to do), and if he's still breathing in thehay when they're outside, I might have to place them in a new home. 

I'm sure there's no such thing as hypoallergenic hay, but does anyoneknow of a great substitute? Maybe one less "dusty"? Thanks.


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## Spring (Dec 28, 2005)

Try to see if you can get some timothy haycubes. They don't provide as much fiber and would probably be veryexpensive to feed the amount they need, but for a little extra fiberthis might help.

Is it all hay? Maybe try some oat hay. You may also try some oat grass(They sell them in planters at the petstore they are also called catgrass) People on this forum said it's like Oat hay, just with all themoisture. Just give them a little at a time to get their systems usedto it. This can help.

Before knowing the importance of hay with my first rabbit, she only gotpellets and a rare occasional vegetable and she lived for 8 years.Experiment with different types of hay maybe? 

With timothy hay cubes, pellets, oat grass, maybe oats you should get enough fiber to have areasonable diet.

Maybe increase the amount of vegetables if you have to decrease oreliminate the hay. Vegetables do have some fiber in them, sothis may help.


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## pamnock (Dec 28, 2005)

You could try alfalfa hay cubes, oat straw, orrinsing the hay off outside before giving it too the rabbits(frequently remove what they don't eat). Another option is toput the rabbits in an outdoor pen to eat the hay.

If you can't find a solution that works, remember that pellets, leafygreens and veggies can provide your rabbits with plenty of fiber intheir diets.



Pam


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## Spring (Dec 28, 2005)

Good idea for the rinsing off the hay. Justdon't leave it in there for more then a few hours to avoid mould. Notsure with some bunnies if they'd like it or not?


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## pamnock (Dec 28, 2005)

*Spring wrote:*


> Good idea for the rinsing off the hay. Just don't leave itin there for more then a few hours to avoid mould. Not sure with somebunnies if they'd like it or not?




No -- some rabbits may not like it. You can shake it out anddry it a little. We used to wash down the hay for horses thathad allergies.

Pam


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## Spring (Dec 28, 2005)

Hmm I was also thinking if apple branches or any rabbti safe branches have fiber in them?


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## Snuggys Mom (Dec 28, 2005)

*ruka wrote: *


> Welive in a pretty damp area and the mold grows on our leather couch andon my mom's leather purses.


Wow, that's pretty bad. Maybe it's just the mold that's setting your dad off. 

Do you use de-humidifiers in your house?

Laura


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## nose_twitch (Dec 28, 2005)

I'm also highly allergic to hay, which is why myrabbit lives on the porch but comes inside frequently. When Ifeed him hay, I wear one of those surgical masks. Someonesuggested feeding the hay outside. I think this is a goodidea. Also, make sure you seal your bags of hay.Then there is no dust flying around. I don't think you willever need to re-home your rabbits. There are alwayssolutions. If worse comes to worse, you can provide fiber inother ways.


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## pamnock (Dec 28, 2005)

*Spring wrote:*


> Hmm I was also thinking if apple branches or anyrabbti safe branches have fiber in them?




Yes, there are a number of safe branches that can be fed.

Pam


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## peapoo_bunny (Dec 28, 2005)

im not allergic to the hay we feed my horse, buti am allergic to timothy hay....i give peapoo a few handfulls everyother day...other days she gets lots of vegetables and those treebranches from the store... when i do feed her hay i have to keep mynose covered.... i think its actually the dust in the air


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## peapoo_bunny (Dec 28, 2005)

im not allergic to the hay we feed my horse, buti am allergic to timothy hay....i give peapoo a few handfulls everyother day...other days she gets lots of vegetables and those treebranches from the store... when i do feed her hay i have to keep mynose covered.... i think its actually the dust in the air from the hay


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## Maureen Las (Dec 29, 2005)

I live where the winters are really cold and myrabbits are always inside but since I have been on this forum I amstarting to wish that if I lived in a warmer climate that I could havea really nice indoorand outdoor area(outside of the house in a separatebldg. I wish that it could be cooled and heated and I wish that I couldtake every bunny from the humane society home with me and give them alla wonderful home. Maybe your dad could help you build something reallynice for your rabbits. Also maybe there is less dust in certain timothy(Oxbow). What about orchard grass from Oxbow?


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## FreddysMom (Dec 29, 2005)

Ruka, 

Also keep in mind that the allergens from the hay will also be on yourrabbits fur. So just keeping the hay away from your dad will help butnot totally alleviate the problem.

If possible, try switching to another hay ..I know they sell tiny bagsof each kind so that way you wont be stuck spending a bunch of money ofdifferent kinds.

If that doesn't work as Pam mentioned veggies are a good source offiber and correct if I am wrong, Pam doesn't feed her rabbits any hay. 

and Also remember the pellets are timothy based. So you may want tosift them through a strainer when you buy the bags to reduce any dust.But you can;t rinse them in water as they will swell and turn into mush.

I hope you find a solution and everything works out well!!!!!!!!!!


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## ruka (Dec 29, 2005)

It's rains here often and I have a streamrunning through my backyard. The mold is only growing in the masterbedroom and nearby living room. Those two rooms are closest to thestream. We are planning on moving to a nearby town that isn't so dampwithin a few months, but in the meantime, my dad wants me to fix theproblem for now before he gets worse. He wasn't tested for any othertypes of hay or grass. I'll call the local feed/pet stores for oatgrass/hay. Since it has been rainy (Hawaii's snow is rain) I don't wantto keep them outside to eat their hay, but if my dad's still allergicto the oat hay, I'll have to keep them outside for that. Thanks for allof your advice! I greatly appreciate it.


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## bluebird (Dec 29, 2005)

oat hay is less dusty,orchard grass is oneoption.if you are feeding a high quality pellet and veges you could getaway with not feeding hay many breeders dont.bluebird


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##  (Dec 29, 2005)

*bluebird wrote:*


> oat hay is less dusty,orchard grass is one option.if you arefeeding a high quality pellet and veges you could get away with notfeeding hay many breeders dont.bluebird


Pam and BlueBird have given some good advice , its not mandatory to feed hay,

IT also sounds like the Mold is also an issue, one could be triggering the other , Iwould let them know Leather and dampnesscould also be part of theproblem and to remove theleather furniture where the mold grows.

Cubed Hay has as much fiber as baled and cut hay ,it all comes from the same place andsubstance just cut into smaller pieces and compressed:disgust:


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## pamnock (Dec 29, 2005)

*FreddysMom wrote: *


> If that doesn't work as Pam mentioned veggies are a good source offiber and correct if I am wrong, Pam doesn't feed her rabbits any hay.




Due to the number of rabbits we have, it is impractical to feed themall hay. Does, kits and weanlings as well as older rabbitsget oat straw.

Rabbits do require high fiber diets, which pelleted feeds areformulated to provide. Excess fiber sources can result innutritional imbalances such as protein deficiency, especially forproduction animals.

Pam


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## peapoo_bunny (Dec 29, 2005)

couldnt you use some of that cat grass they sell at the store? the one at our store says its for rabitts too


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## ariel (Dec 29, 2005)

Even though I may be on the other sideof the world and there are different things here, I'd say try Oat hay.We switched to it and it's great, not as much dust and the bunnies loveit, or as has been suggested you could try cubed hay.

Hope all works out for you.


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## gentle giants (Dec 29, 2005)

You could also try giving them plain shreddedwheat, the cereal you can get at the grocery store. It's got tons offiber in it, and I know all my rabbits absolutely looove it. In fact,that's what they all got as thier Christmas treat, LOL!


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## Spring (Dec 29, 2005)

Lol aww! I readsomethingon a site the other day and it saidrabbits can't handle starch too well? The oats I feedhavestarch in them, should I just watch the quantities?


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## ruka (Dec 30, 2005)

The girls are fed Oxbow Bunny Basics T with acouple handfuls of spring mix salad, and baby carrots. I add othervegetables like broccoli or sprouts, whatever is available in thehouse. They also get the occassional treats like a medallion of bananaor a small slice of apple. And of course, a buffet of hay. (They poop ALOT! :disgust:... but lots of poop is better than none) I'm not surehow much fiber is in their diet, but I'd like for them to have the sameamount when they're off hay and onto something new. They really lovehay, so I'll try to find simliar food like oat grass.

Once again, thank you very much for your help!


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## bunnyslave (Dec 30, 2005)

I am SO allergic to Timothy hay! Ifeed my bunnies Oat hay instead. I think that the oat haymust not be as "dusty" as the timothy. I still sneeze withthe oat hay but its not as bad and goes away much quicker than thetimothy. I figure a couple sneezes are worth it for mybunnies...


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## sfritzp (Dec 30, 2005)

Going back to the suggestion on rinsing off the hay...
Someone somewhere on this forum said that they spray, or'mist' their rabbit's hay with applejuice to make them eatmore of it.
Perhaps doing that will keep down the dust - I just can't picturegiving 'wet' hay to the buns! At least my buns - they are VERY fussy.
But if it's wet with applejuice - they might just go for it!
Timothy hay is VERY dusty. I take a Claratin before I transfer it fromthe shipping box to the hopper, just so I can breathe! When I put it intheir boxes, I hold my breath and wash my hands immediately after.


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## FlopsnWills (Dec 30, 2005)

when i had my first rabbit, (i got her when iwas 12)i didn't know that rabbits supposedly NEEDED hay tosurvive and i fed her alfalfa pellets and lots and lots of veggies. shelived a happy life and was a few months away from being 6 when i losther to uterine cancer (spaying is a MUST with female pet rabbits!) inever had a stasis issue with her and in my opinion, she was a veryhealthy 8 pound mini lop who lived comfortably in our house. i do feedmy boys unlimited timothy now, only because i think it helps theirdigestive systems and now that i know a lot more about buns,iprefer to feed hay. i would try oat or orchard grass, but there is noneed to get rid of them, i think domesticated buns can live withouthay, its just better to feed it.


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## Spring (Dec 30, 2005)

I haven't talked with or read with somebody whohad a bunyn suffer from uterine cancer, just the same informationrepeat and repeat. Do they suffer through it? What is it exactly? Whatare some of the signs? Do you remember much about it? IO'm trying toget as much information as possible, with my year old Nehterland dwarfi'm looking into spaying. If you can, post anything about Uterinecancer that you remembered?


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## FlopsnWills (Dec 30, 2005)

well, it's a slow painful process that iwouldn't wish upon any rabbit. i started looking into spaying her whenshe was 2 and i was 14 and i read that the chances are high, so istarted calling every vet in my town. unfortunately, all the vets italked to didn't understand why i wanted to if i had no other rabbits,or they didn't feel comfortable doing the surgery. so, i just hoped shewouldn't get it.

when she was about 4-5, her privates started to ooze this puss likesubstance and she was in a LOT of pain, i took her to two differentvets and they both told me she had a bladder infection (which i laterlearned was the biggest mis-diagnose for uterine cancer) both vets hadme clean her privates everynight with water and pat it dry with bakingsoda. it was all for nothing and she passed away on memorial weekendwhen i was in chicago visiting family, my dad called and told me shepassed. it was a horrible experience, but i don't blame myself becausei did try to find a vet that would spay her. the chances are WAY toohigh to just wish it away and i wish every female pet rabbit out therewas spayed.


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## pamnock (Dec 31, 2005)

The older the doe is, the more likely she is todevelop uterine tumors. These tumors are not alwayscancerous, nor do they always cause health problem,however,removing the uterus does eliminate the health risksof uterine cancer.

It is very important to find a vet with extensive experience in rabbit surgical procedures.

Pam N.


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## Spring (Dec 31, 2005)

:thanks:for that information. I REALLYappreciate that! I remember seeing on some website the tumors theyremoved from a doe, but I can't remember where I saw it from. When Iwas looking up uterine cancer cases on this forum, it brought up a postand some member said if you breed your doe it does'nt happen (But Ihave read that this doesn't matter?) and that they talked to a vet whosaid it wasn'ta big issue, but she said it probably wasn't arabbit experienced vet. It's just so confusingwithinformation repeated over and over from site to site and I wasn't sureif some of the information was true or not. If the tumors aren'tcancerous, will it lead to any health problems or discomforts?


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## pamnock (Dec 31, 2005)

*Spring wrote:*


> When I was looking up uterine cancercases on this forum, it brought up a post and some member said if youbreed your doe it does'nt happen (But I have read that this doesn'tmatter?)





> If the tumors aren'tcancerous, will it lead to any health problems or discomforts?




Does that have been bred can stilldevelop uterinetumors. Even if the tumors are benign, they can grow huge andlead to discomfort or other health problems.

Pam


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## sfritzp (Dec 31, 2005)

My Maggie was found abandoned and starving in avacant house with 3 old dogs (the reason she was found, was because ofneighbor's complaining of the noise the dogs were making.)
The HRS said she most likely had been bred over and over to producebunnies for sale to - most likely - pet shops. They estimated her ageto be 3 or 4 - but I think she's younger then that.
She was spayed before I got her, and they found her uterus to be FILLEDwith fibrous tumors - to the point she would not be able to carry alitter to term, and so why she was left in a cage in an abondoned houseby some remnant of a 'human being' - and I use that term loosely... The vet was 'shocked' by the condition of it. 
So - even if they are bred, they can and WILL develop tumors -cancerous or benign - and they most likely will die from themeventually.


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## Spring (Dec 31, 2005)

Thanks for more information. They said she wasaround 3 or 4, but you think she is younger? Did she have any problemswith the surgery? I read it's really risky in older does. Did she haveto get a thorough check over before it?


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## sfritzp (Dec 31, 2005)

She did very well with the surgery, but as Isaid the vet was really shocked by the condition of the uterus. Shesaid it was caused by over breeding - not giving her a chance to evenrest in between, I guess. (I would have loved to see some of thosebabies!)
She may be 3 or 4, but she just acts like a young thing! She jumps allover and is just really energetic. I would put her between 2 and 3. Andif she did have a litter every 30 days or so, even at that age, thatmeans she could have had 24 or more litters!
I'm just glad she's with me, now...


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## Spring (Dec 31, 2005)

Me too! It's a shame actually, that rabbitsbreed so quickly. If they tookmore time, then we would haveless rabbit-overpopulation and less unhappy rabbits. We can't changehow they were made, it's a shame .


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## Spring (Dec 31, 2005)

Found an interesting article with differentfigures besides the ones I saw. It was good information and verydifferent from teh avrrage ones I see

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/1155/UC.html


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## FlopsnWills (Dec 31, 2005)

spring, i honestly think you should put yourlittle girl through surgery. the risks of cancer outweigh the risks ofdying in surgery, especially when you're positive you have a rabbitsavvy vet. if you have a vet you know you can trust, go ahead and gether spayed and make sure they remove the ovaries AND the uterus. flopsywent through a horrible, painful death and i think ifitspreventable, why shouldnt we do it?


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## Spring (Dec 31, 2005)

I know, it's jsut that if something happend toher, I couldn't live with myself, but if she got uterine cancer, i'dfeel worse. The vet I went to twice with Pepsi I thinkknewenough about rabbits, but when he didn't know what to do when after thepresciptions she wasn't improving recommended me to a vet I could goto. Along with her full vet training, she also had an extra trianingwith exotics. I will have to get some good articles for my mom, as Ican't afford the full payment of the spay. I read it's around 150-200$,but I can phone around.

I'm in a tough situation, and I don't know what my hearts trying to tell me:?


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## edwinf8936 (Jan 4, 2006)

Orchard grass is not compacted so there is notmuch dust. I get the mix of barley, wheat and oat hay, theylike it, it is compacted.

Ed


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