# Mice Cage! Mice photos..



## Myia09 (Jul 27, 2010)

I thought I would show off my new bin cage...

and my two new mice! I can't wait to bond to make a quad


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## TwistedSerpent (Jul 27, 2010)

Very nice! I just love plastic bins you can do so much and keep so much in them, mice and rats do great as long as they cant get an edge to get a tooth on. Just about everything that I keep are in bins of one size or another and everything thrives.


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## Nela (Jul 28, 2010)

I love mice! I didn't realize you could keep them in those bins. It doesn't smell? I remember mice and rats smelling quite a bit so that has always kept me from getting some myself. Mice are so cute :biggrin2:


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## hartleybun (Jul 28, 2010)

squeeeee! i always had my mice in rotastaks - never thought to put them in a bin setup. it looks a lot easier to clean!


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## cheryl (Jul 28, 2010)

That looks great Myia!


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## Myia09 (Jul 28, 2010)

Thanks everyone! It isn't quite finished, but so far they love it.

Nela, I have four girls. They don't smell at all. They are actually less smelly than my hamster. When I first got them (And my new females) they smelled for the first two weeks because petstores usually feed bad diets..so they stink a bit. But after that, they are really clean.

They are so much fun and are really interactive!


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## TwistedSerpent (Jul 28, 2010)

Males have a much stronger smelling urine too. One thing that is said to really cut down on the smell a ton is by adding a small amount of vanilla to their water.


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## Daenerys (Jul 28, 2010)

What do you feed them to keep the smell down, Myia?


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## molly (Jul 28, 2010)

*Nela wrote: *


> I love mice! I didn't realize you could keep them in those bins. It doesn't smell? I remember mice and rats smelling quite a bit so that has always kept me from getting some myself. Mice are so cute :biggrin2:


Rats shouldn't smell if their cage is kept clean although some intact males mark and the smell can be quite strong. (Very similar to rabbits now that I think of it.) Bin cages are also unsuitable for rats unless they are used as hospital or nursing cages. They are too small, do not provide enough enrichment or climbing opportunities, and often do not have adequate air circulation.

Mice can be very smelly on the other hand, especially males. Bin cages are good for them because they can slip through the bars of many cages and bins usually offer more space than the ones available commercially. 

That's a pretty nice mouse setup Myia, I'm guessing they're girls if you're going to have them living in groups? I have both mice and rats (as well as bunnies) but mice definitely have more of a variety of colours and markings. (Is that an FN/CN ladder in their cage?)


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## Myia09 (Jul 28, 2010)

Daneary, I feed a mix I make myself. No, I don't want to argue about it..all that blocks are is compressed seeds baked together...and since they lose nutrition that way, they have to be artificially enriched. I stand by my diet 100%

I feed this seed mix:
barely
millet
oatmeal
lentils (all colors)
buckwheat
flax seed
pumpkin (Small amounts)
sunflower (Small amounts)
mung beans
brown rice
whole peas (Dried)
And I am thinking I am missing two others..might come back and edit if I remember, lol. I bought some things a pound, and other half and the total was about $12. I been using it for about two months and am about halfway through being done! So it is way cheaper.

Here is the first ingrediants in Oxbow's food: Whole Brown Rice, Oat Groats, Wheat Bran, Wheat, Soybean Meal, Menhaden Fish Meal, Soybean Hulls, Monocalcium Phosphate, Flaxseed Meal, Linseed, Brewer's Yeast, Calcium Carbonate, Wheat Germ Meal

As you see, I feed almost all the same things, just in true form. I do not feed soy beans because of the debate on weather or not soy is good for them. 

I then feed small amounts of leafy greens two to three times a week.

Theneveryother weekthey each get a regular sized mealworm. 

And then they get SOFT hay to nest in and eat.

I don't feed fruit or "treats"...I guess I am a mean mommy. lol!

I haven't dealt with males, but I don't think their smell is so bad if you spot clean. Right now I am just using shredded paper and hay for bedding..not the most aborbent but it works. And I don't spot clean..just once a week change. But I dont think they smell at all.

Molly is right..it is not appropriate for rats. To put it in my "pet store way" a cage that is sold as a chinchilla cage is usually a good rat cage, LOL.

Molly, it is a FN ladder  I have chinchillas, and they don't use them or the shelves. So I opted out fo this so they can go under adn waht not until I build a second level.


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## Myia09 (Jul 28, 2010)

I should add, I will be getting more hides. I am just debating the costs of buying wood or fiber hides compared to plastic, ect ect


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## molly (Jul 28, 2010)

Myia, everything I have read about mouse nutrition on other forums indicates that Oxbow is not a suitable block for them. (There is very little reliable info on mouse nutrition out there though.) I'm not saying the mix you feed is good or bad, but there's something in the way Oxbow Regal Rat is formulated that suits rats really well but does not provide everything all mice need, so be careful formulating your feed to shadow their blocks. There are some really good and affordable lab blocks for mice out there, many people feed them in addition to their own mix, Harlan Teklad (available from Mainely Rat Rescue in the States and the 18% protein formula is also sold under the brand Native Earth) and Mazuri 6F (the breeder quality one, not the one usually found in pet stores) both are very popular amongst mice owners. 

I don't think there's much that can be done with diet to keep the smell down with mice though. Vanilla didn't help when I tried it and Bi-Odor helped some (I checked with the vet first to make sure it was safe) but it was still there. The type of bedding you use and an air purifier can really help, but males truly do stink. We have mice because one of my husband's students released one as a prank at school and had babies when we brought her home, so we have both. I clean the males' cages (they also are too territorial to live together) and they will smell again 6 hours later... and they have very big cages. People warned me about the smell when I first got mice but I didn't understand until the boys were weaned.


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## Myia09 (Jul 28, 2010)

Well, I don't model after Oxbow 
So I guess that is good! I did a lot of research into what they would naturally find, what is known to be in most pellet brands, and what is known about nutrition.

Here is the Mazuri 6f (Beginning list where most people can recongize the ingrediants)
Ground corn, dehulled soybean meal, ground oats, porcine animal fat preserved with BHA, cane molasses, wheat middlings, dehydrated alfalfa meal, ground wheat, ground soybean hulls, calcium carbonate, fish meal, salt, brewers dried yeast, dicalcium phosphate, monocalcium phosphate, dried beet pulp, wheat germ, corn gluten meal, soybean oil

I would in fact, consider that feed *unhealthy* for a mouse. The first ingrediant is corn. I do not feed corn to my mice or my hamsters. I personally also limit how much corn I eat! Corn is a filler..that is all, and is basically not very nutritous because it can't beprocess right. That is why when us humanseat it..we see it in our bowel movements.There is digestion problems. The second ingrediant is soybeans..which again, are in high debate of being unhealthy. That, the soy,is the main protien source. As you see, I provide my protien by the form of insects. My mice/hamster won't touch crickets, but love mealworms. I also feed some occasional egg. The fifth ingrediant is SUGAR! I am sure that is there to make it taste good..but really, my mice love a non sugar diet. Sugar can be problamatic in mice, hence why you shouldn't feed too much fruits (I don't feed any at all)

I coudln't find Harlans break down, but this is from thier site.
"These diets primarily contain grains (corn, wheat), legumes (soybean meal) and to a lesser extent ingredients such as fish meal, and meat and bone meal"

Again, I don't feed soy. And corn.

" There was limited appreciation of the effects of non-nutrients, such as phytoestrogens, on experimental results. Alfalfa meal and soybean meal are the major sources of phytoestrogens in laboratory animal diets. These ingredients, particularly soybean meal, are found in most traditional rodent diets."

Phytoestrogens are bad. In fact, later on the site says "Phytoestrogens have been shown to affect mammalian physiology including cancer growth,osclerosis, calcium-phosphorus metabolism, and behavior." 
They do offer four brands that are free of phytoestrogens, but the main block that is offerd has both the alfalfa and soy.


Now, I do feed some legumes..peas, lentils, and beans. But neither contain the amount of phytoestrogensthat soybean has shown to, nor have the risk as soybeans do. Soy so far has not been approved as a sutible meat subsitute for rodents (The debate is still on for dogs/cats). But mice would natually also feed on these, so that is why I provide it. The overall nutrition outwieighs the risk of phytoestrogens of legumes..but I wouldn't say that about soy.

So I would feed niether, because they are both bad. I might be tempted to purchase the phytoestrogen free diet..but I already do that. My mice and hamster get thier protien from a live source, vegtables, grains, and seeds. 

My females, again, do not smell. I thin the majority of female owners agree. However, I have heard of boys smelling. However Amy (undergunfire) on here had a male mouse and he didn't smell much at all. He did have an odor, but all it took was spot cleaning and cage cleaning twice a week. 

But it is a known fact petstore mice smell bad at first..it is a transition to come home and feel better. I do contribute that (and so do others) on bad diet and living conditions.

I would love to get a male when I don't have females (I don't want to spend $70 on a mouse nueter) so maybe I will see then.


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## Myia09 (Jul 28, 2010)

Oh..I found Native Earths Listing:
Ground wheat, ground corn, wheat middlings, soybean meal, corn gluten meal, soybean oil, calcium carbonate, dried brewers yeast, dicalcium phosphate, iodized salt, L-lysine, DL-methionine, choline chloride, niacin, vitamin A acetate, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride,thiamine mononitrate, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), vitamin E supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, calcium pantothenate, ferrous sulfate, magnesium ox 

Look at all that corn and soy! D: 
There is nothing natural about that diet..all that is is some corn and wheat enriched with additives to replace the natural seed they would eat.

Edited to say, I know blocks reasoning. They give you all the nutriton so mice don't pick and chose. I don't see my mice picking and choosing. I also know feeding dog kibble isn't uncommon for protien, but I don't feel like mine need that since they are given live protien.


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## Happi Bun (Jul 28, 2010)

Looks great Myia! Your mice are so adorable. 

I love Harlan Teklad, it's what my ratties are on. It's the top recommended food for rats. I know some people prefer not feeding it though if they want to go the completely organic corn free route. Nothing wrong with that! HT is the top food available for the ratties though, aside from what like you are doing of course. I don't care for Mazuri; didn't like how my guys looked on it.


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## Myia09 (Jul 28, 2010)

Thanks Erika 

I think I would feed it if I needed a block, no doubt. 

I like Mazuri for my chinchillas okay until I got them on Purina..the difference was amazing!


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## Nancy McClelland (Jul 28, 2010)

looks fantastic--cute mice too


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## molly (Jul 28, 2010)

Rats and mice, unlike humans, need the bulk of their calories from carbohydrates, not protein. That's why many blocks use corn as a staple. As humans, many of us will eat a starch (rice, potatoes, or pasta) as a major component of at least one meal - this would be the same sort of idea. Corn as a staple in rodent diets is not necessarily a bad thing. Dried corn available in seed mixes can be, as it can have mold that is invisible to the naked eye.

I have never personally used Mazuri 6F, I am only going by what I have heard from other mouse owners and breeders that really like it. It is considered to be one of the better blocks for rats, behind HT and Oxbow.

Harlan does not have any soy, alfalfa (not digestible by rats), or animal products in their 2014 formula, which is one of the reasons I feed it. (I have had far too much experience with mammary tumors.) Like I said before, I have not found a lot of information about what the optimal levels of protein are for pet mice (different strains of lab mice have different requirements) but my mice seem to do really well on the 14% formula. When they were younger I supplemented their diet with hamster blocks, cooked egg, and yogurt. 

Here are the ingredients for both Harlan 2014 and 2018:

Harlan Teklad 2014 

Product Description
2014 Teklad Global 14% Protein Rodent Maintenance Diet is designed and manufactured with high quality ingredients. 2014 is a fixed formula, nutritionally balanced, non-autoclavable diet containing a minimum of 14% protein and 3.5% fat. Scientific publications report that low fat, low protein diets promote longevity and normal body weight in rodents. 2014 does not contain alfalfa or soybean meal, thus minimizing the occurrence of natural phytoestrogens. Absence of animal protein and fish meal eliminates the presence of nitrosamines.

IngredientsâWheat middlings, ground wheat, ground corn, corn gluten meal, calcium carbonate, soybean oil, dicalcium phosphate, iodized salt, L-lysine, DLmethionine,
choline chloride, niacin, vitamin A acetate, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), vitamin E supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, calcium pantothenate, ferrous sulfate, magnesium oxide, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate, chromium potassium sulfate.

Standard Product

Crude Protein 14.5%
Crude Oil (Fat) 4.0%
Crude Fiber 4.5%

Harlan Teklad 2018

Product Description- 2018 is a fixed formula, non-autoclavable diet manufactured with high quality ingredients and designed to support gestation, lactation, and growth of rodents. 2018 does not contain alfalfa,
thus lowering the occurrence of natural phytoestrogens. Typical isoflavone concentrations (daidzein + genistein aglycone equivalents) range from 150 to 250 mg/kg. Exclusion of alfalfa reduces chlorophyll, improving optical
imaging clarity. Absence of animal protein and fish meal minimizes the presence of nitrosamines.

IngredientsâGround wheat, ground corn, wheat middlings, dehulled soybean meal, corn gluten meal, soybean oil, calcium carbonate, brewers dried yeast, dicalcium phosphate, iodized salt, L-lysine, DL-methionine, choline chloride, niacin, vitamin A acetate, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), vitamin E supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, calcium pantothenate, ferrous sulfate, magnesium oxide, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate,
chromium potassium sulfate, kaolin.

Standard Product

Crude Protein 18.8%
Crude Oil (Fat) 6.0%
Crude Fiber 3.8%

As for the smell... your friend is very lucky he male didn't smell. (And you are very lucky if you can get a mouse neutered for $70, I paid 3 times that.) The best trick I found was to not discard all of their bedding when I clean the cage. It's not their pee that smells, but what they mark. In fact, even if I handle them for few minutes, my hands smell. Perhaps mice from breeders are a little better, but there are a lot of male mice that can really smell despite of anything we do.


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## Anaira (Jul 28, 2010)

Cute mice! Just one thing, I've heard of cases of rats and mice amputating their own tails in wire wheels, like your yellow one.

I also feed my ratties Harlan 2014. Great stuff. 

I like your recipe, Myia, but I noticed you had dried legumes in there(lentils,etc). I know dried legumes contain antinutrients that destroy vitamin A and enzymes needed to digest protein and starches and causes red blood cells to clump, in rats. Would it be the same for mice?


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## Myia09 (Jul 28, 2010)

The wheel I returned afterwards! The mouse fourm said they were okay, but it was rusty or whatever and wouldn't go around well enough. So I had to replace it.

In my above post, legumes mostly get thier bad wrap from soybeans. BUT I have considerd not feeding them. But the amount of legumes I have are very low in the mix. For every 1lb it is probably less than 1/3 combined (that is for the lentils, peas, mung beans)

Most legumes are not as high in photoestorgens as soy is.

I didn't even think to bring that up.


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## Boz (Aug 1, 2010)

Bin cages are awesome! I have one that I had my hamsters in. Works fab! I've used it for gerbils too but only temporarily because I worry they may chew out unless the bottom is completely smooth!

I often see mice in the pet stores and they are soo cute and more then once I've thought of getting one, but I heard they are better in pairs or more. Plus I honestly rather have gerbils.  Maybe if we get one in the shelter I will cave in and get him... although my mom might not approve. 

Your bin cages are awesome and your mice are adorable!


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## jcl_24 (Oct 4, 2010)

An adventure playground for mice, very cool .

Jo x


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## irishbunny (Oct 4, 2010)

Great setup! I am hopefully getting some mice next September for apartment/room pets, I think I will do a bin setup too.


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## AquaticRex (Oct 6, 2010)

a bit off topic, but me and my boyfriend saved a kangaroo mouse from a cat a few months back. i stepped outside and can see this white thing running around squeaking and a cat chasing it. i ran after the cat and David went in to get a container. we brought it to a more tree'd and leaf covered area for it to hide in. it seemed almost tame, but it obviously wasn't cause kangaroo mice are an endangered species and are illegal to keep...

you know you have a good guy when they are willing to try and help a helpless little animal without being told to lol ^_^


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