# Litter of kits and a very defensive mother...



## Ebonytherabbit (Sep 15, 2014)

My Rabbit Ebony just had a litter of about 4 or 5 kits, Ebony is not letting me open the hutch to feed her with ought trying to bite me how can I stop this and also how should I clean the hutch?


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## majorv (Sep 15, 2014)

You just need to distract her long enough so you can take the nestbox out and check on the kits. I wouldn't worry too much about the hutch right now...unless it's just filthy.


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## Ebonytherabbit (Sep 15, 2014)

She has calmed down now and I managed to give her food but every time I come up to the hutch she sort of shows a little bit if the whites of her eyes if u know what I mean and when u take her food out or the nest box she just watches u from a corner of the hutch and she was shaking earlier when I went to feed her, she had 4 kits in her litter and that's a lot for a first time mum and my hutch is not that dirty I promise!


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## whiskylollipop (Sep 15, 2014)

She's just being a good mum. Give her a small treat whenever your hand goes into the hutch so she'll associate you with good things instead. Have you checked on the kits? Get someone to grab her out and hold her if necessary for you to do this, if there are dead ones you don't want to leave them in there with the live babies too long.


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## Bryant (Sep 15, 2014)

The "eye" thing you're talking about, that's her being scared that you're going to hurt her or the kits. It's nothing you're doing wrong, just natural instinct and motherhood. Women get hormonal with one child... imagine how much of a hormone storm she's having with 5 babies!! Lol, seriously though, she'll return to a note normal state within a couple days or so. Also don't let it stop you from checking in the kits. The mom will let Marie take its course if something bad happens, so it's your job to make sure birthing happens to the kits that would let them die (getting separated from the litter, buried under the litter and not getting fed, etc. )


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## Ebonytherabbit (Sep 16, 2014)

I have checked the litter and they are all alive and moving around a lot but are all huddled together, I rub my hands with some of her fur that she shed before I check the kits as I don't want her to abandon them if I get my scent on them


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## ladysown (Sep 16, 2014)

99% of rabbits mind not if you touch their kits. 
Check them twice a day.
Generally hormones settle within a week.
some mom's are protective does.
SOMETIMES they are over protective and won't let the kits leave the box.... those moms you simply DO NOT breed again.
Four kits is an easy litter regardless the size of the doe for MOST rabbits.


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## Ebonytherabbit (Sep 16, 2014)

OK thanks she is a bit defensive and never takes an eye off me when I'm checking the kits other wise for her first litter apparently the average is about 2 kits but she seems to be doing fairly well with her kits and we didn't even know she was giving birth in till I got back from a party and found her giving birth


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## Kati's Holland Lops (Sep 16, 2014)

So I read ur last post, and from that I know that the mother doesn't know U that much... With my first litter the mother had a cow when I went near the nestbox. Try giving her a head massage every time you go into the nestbox, it really helps. And don't be afraid they can sense ur fear ( sounds cheesy but it's true.


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## HiddlesKenway (Sep 16, 2014)

Its perfectly normal behaviour for a mother doe. Put one hand over her head and gently push her down if she tries attacking you this basically establishes your dominance and motherly control over her but regularly just give her a pat with on hand whilst you check for golf ball belly babies with the other. 

You can usually tell if they have just been nursed (twice a day, early morning, late night) they tend to wee when you pick then up and the bellies are like rocks! But during the day that softens but they stay fat till next nursing. You'll never see her nurse, only time I ever saw one of my brood does nurse was when she was housed in my bedroom. Looks hilarious when babies get big.

Signs to look for in a dehydrated kit is wrinkly skin and obviously sunken in bellies not all of these kits will be turning blue though so if you find a kit like that I usually take mumma doe out and put the kit on her and let it nurse for about five minutes if she won't lie on her back I just pop her back on her belly and tuck the kit under like how they naturally nurse, now they will either sit or try and hop away just hold her steady and cover her eyes, it'll calm her down. 

Four babies is a small litter but an average size for a first time mum. Although I've had first timers have ten, these were Dwarf Lops (AU) (Mini Lops in America) it actually can depend a lot more on genetics then much else, if their mother had big litters generally sibling and offspring will too but this isn't always the case.


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## Ebonytherabbit (Sep 16, 2014)

Kati's Holland Lops said:


> So I read ur last post, and from that I know that the mother doesn't know U that much... With my first litter the mother had a cow when I went near the nestbox. Try giving her a head massage every time you go into the nestbox, it really helps. And don't be afraid they can sense ur fear ( sounds cheesy but it's true.



I have had the mother doe for almost a year of course she knows me well! Thanks for the tip any way but can I just ask how am I an irresponsible owner cuz that really hurt my feelings when I read that I am only 13 and I thought that the breeder would know best as they breed rabbits all the time and I kept bugging my mum for another hutch for shadow but she said she wasn't gonna get one yet as she don't need one yet as shadow isn't ready


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## Kati's Holland Lops (Sep 16, 2014)

Ebonytherabbit said:


> I have had the mother doe for almost a year of course she knows me well! Thanks for the tip any way but can I just ask how am I an irresponsible owner cuz that really hurt my feelings when I read that I am only 13 and I thought that the breeder would know best as they breed rabbits all the time and I kept bugging my mum for another hutch for shadow but she said she wasn't gonna get one yet as she don't need one yet as shadow isn't ready



I think I just read ur last post wrong or something, I didn't know that you did want another hutch, but anyways CONGRATZZ enjoy dem babies


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## Ebonytherabbit (Sep 17, 2014)

Woah sorry it repeted what I was saying tons of times can u delete them all?


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## Ebonytherabbit (Sep 17, 2014)

It's OK now my mum is saying she is not gonna get another hutch till next week so I'm really annoyed now but my hutch is a double so shadow is on the bottom and ebony is on top as she had her babies in the top bit


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## ladysown (Sep 17, 2014)

not sure when you separated the two, but if it was after the kits were born, in a month you may have more kits to deal with. Rabbits can and often do breed the same day they have kits.


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## Ebonytherabbit (Sep 17, 2014)

We was not exactly sure if she was pregnant or not but as soon as ebony began to give birth I separated the two of them me and my mum hope they did not breed again as she wanted to let ebony to raise her first litter first


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## ladysown (Sep 18, 2014)

make sure you SELL the babies as opposed to giving them away. Selling makes them worth just a bit more and rabbits are so disposable that making people think a little before dumping if they tire of it makes good sense yes?

Handle the kits every day twice a day. At first to make sure they are eating and growing, and later to get them well used to people bugging 'em. 

BEFORE you rebreed your rabbit consider what might happen if you can't get rid of all the babies. Are you prepared to keep them? Or what will you do if you can't find them homes? Something important to consider.


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## Ebonytherabbit (Sep 19, 2014)

I'm not gonna handle them in till there older they are only 5 days old now so not gonna handle them yet, just hope they are not getting upset now as at the time I wrote this is the weirdest storm ever, tons of lightning no thunder lol no joke any way yeah have thought about all that we have decided to keep one of the babies and are selling the rest


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## majorv (Sep 19, 2014)

You really should at least hold them once a day so they grow up being used to it. Otherwise, they could end up skittish and possibly aggressive...not good if you want them to be someone's pet.


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## Ebonytherabbit (Sep 20, 2014)

I have been told by loads of people not to handle them yet so.....


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## JBun (Sep 20, 2014)

Ebonytherabbit said:


> I have been told by loads of people not to handle them yet so.....



I don't know who is telling you this, but many of the people that have commented on this thread about handling the kits, are experienced rabbit breeders that know what they are talking about. Checking the babies daily is an important part of raising baby rabbits. You want to be checking the babies daily to ensure they are eating and no injuries or health problems have occurred. These daily checks also ensure they are used to being handled by people, and don't grow up nervous or scared of it.

You do want to be careful when handling them as they are very squirmy and can pop right out of your hand, so you want to handle them close to a surface or floor so that they can't get injured from a possible fall. It's also a good idea to wash your hands before handling. You can then pet the mom to get her scent on your hands before picking them up if you want. It may help if she is a bit nervous about her babies being handled.


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## HiddlesKenway (Sep 20, 2014)

Ebonytherabbit said:


> I have been told by loads of people not to handle them yet so.....




I breed and show rabbits. I handle hour old kits without an issue and have yet to have a doe reject her kits. There are many misconceptions about this. Hold them or your kits will be skittish.


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## Ebonytherabbit (Sep 20, 2014)

My auntie, and my aunties friend and my cousin are rabbit breeders, they told me not to handle them in till they are ten days old, and I do check them daily and are all still alive and I do pet the mother


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## Watermelons (Sep 20, 2014)

You need to handle these babies.
People on here are giving you good advice and i suggest you take it.
And i seriously hope you dont intend to breed these 2 rabbits anymore. There are enough pet quality rabbits out there with no homes


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## Ebonytherabbit (Sep 20, 2014)

Are you telling me I'm not a good owner?


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## Bucktooth (Sep 20, 2014)

I've been handling my babies since two days old (obviously because they have no mom) and they will be 4 weeks old in 2 days. They are insanely friendly. If we call them they come running and jump in my lap. They love being pet and held.


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## JBun (Sep 20, 2014)

Ebonytherabbit said:


> Are you telling me I'm not a good owner?



No one is saying this. People are just sharing their experience, which is that they have found handling kits from birth, helps them to be friendlier. But if the advice you are getting from your family is to wait til they are older, that is fine too. Just start handling them as soon as you can.

Just out of curiosity, do you happen to live in the UK?


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## Ebonytherabbit (Sep 20, 2014)

Yeah I live in the UK, well I think my rabbits are naturally skittish any way as my buck only likes to be stroked for like five seconds then he runs away from my hand and my doe likes to be stroked but hates being picked up


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## Ebonytherabbit (Sep 20, 2014)

I'm not touching the babies in till there ten days old at least they will have a couple of weeks to get used to people handling them


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## JBun (Sep 20, 2014)

Ebonytherabbit said:


> *Yeah I live in the UK*, well I think my rabbits are naturally skittish any way as my buck only likes to be stroked for like five seconds then he runs away from my hand and my doe likes to be stroked but hates being picked up



I think the 'to handle or not to handle the kits right after being born', is a cultural difference. That's why I asked your location. I've noticed that people from the UK seem to mostly advise against handling kits for the first week or two. Where as here in the US, it's common for people to advise handling kits from birth. I don't know which is the better of the two, as I've always handled the kits from birth, in the few litters that I have raised, and always ended up with really friendly well socialized babies. 

You're probably best with sticking with your families advice since that is what is normally done where you are. And you'll soon be handling the babies anyways. Just spend lots of time with them and that will help to socialize them.


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## Ebonytherabbit (Sep 21, 2014)

OK they are seven days old now so I will start handling them in 3 days time, yeah here in the UK I would get told off if I handled them before they where at least ten days old, maybe your way in the US is better tho if u get really friendly rabbits as are rabbits in the UK tend to be a bit skittish, well mine are any way


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## Ebonytherabbit (Sep 21, 2014)

The pic is not clear but here is a PIC of the babies


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## Ebonytherabbit (Sep 21, 2014)

My doe


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## Ebonytherabbit (Sep 21, 2014)

And my buck


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## Bryant (Sep 22, 2014)

Ebonytherabbit said:


> Are you telling me I'm not a good owner?



I'll be the bad guy here...

You spent 3 threads talking about how a member called you irresponsible for letting your doe have an unintended pregnancy, then asked her to explain WHY she called you irresponsible... this should not need explaining, and yes, it was irresponsible (we've all done irresponsible things at one point or another, but that doesn't excuse it)

You said in two of those threads that you were going to get rid of your rabbits because of it. Letting someone on the internet calling you names have an affect you in real life, is also not a mark in your favor. 

There are two pages of people (excluding me) telling you their experienced advice on how to approach your kits. You refuse to heed a word of it. 

I can't say you're a good OR a bad owner with certainty, but i can say that in your threads you've shown to be irresponsible, stubborn, unnecessarily confrontational, emotionally immature and heedless of the advice you've been given here. 

So let me be the first to say, if you want to be a great owner, those traits need to cease.


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## Ebonytherabbit (Sep 22, 2014)

Look I'm only 13 I'm not the person who has the money to go and by a new hutch. I'm not the person who told me that Shadow wouldn't be ready yet. Its different here in the UK as we don't handle our kits in till they are at least 10 days old, if I don't think the information is right I don't have to use it. And did I say I was gonna get rid of my rabbits? No. Not my fault my rabbit got pregnant all u guys do is have a go at me so if ur rabbit gets pregnant and has babies to does that mean your irresponsible? At least I spoil my rabbits and treat them nicely and at least all the babies are still alive I got this app to get advice not for people to have a go at me


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## majorv (Sep 22, 2014)

I think some people may have missed the fact that you're 13 years old. I know that you want some advice, which is fine. The only thing that bothers me is that for some of the advice we gave you, you rejected it because your relatives say different. I'm glad the kits are doing well, but I hesitate to give more advice now because you may tell me that your relatives think different.


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## Ebonytherabbit (Sep 22, 2014)

My mum said to uninstall this app because you guys are making me upset so I am, I'm spending the rest of my day with my rabbits even though I have been with them most of the day any way


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## Bryant (Sep 22, 2014)

Ebonytherabbit said:


> Look I'm only 13 I'm not the person who has the money to go and by a new hutch. I'm not the person who told me that Shadow wouldn't be ready yet.


Still should have been separated. That's what you were told by numerous people. That's where the member called you irresponsible. And if you're 13, your parent/guardian should be overseeing them as well to help address anything you may forget. 



Ebonytherabbit said:


> Its different here in the UK as we don't handle our kits in till they are at least 10 days old, if I don't think the information is right I don't have to use it.


This is still being unreceptive to good advice. And I've never heard 10 days. Maybe 2, never 10. 



Ebonytherabbit said:


> And did I say I was gonna get rid of my rabbits? No.


You said: "I feel really bad now maybe I am irresponsible maybe I should just get rid of my rabbits." Page 2 or 3 of your first thread. 



Ebonytherabbit said:


> so if ur rabbit gets pregnant and has babies to does that mean your irresponsible?


Not when it's intentional. 



Ebonytherabbit said:


> I spoil my rabbits and treat them nicely and at least all the babies are still alive


Glad to hear this.


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## JBun (Sep 22, 2014)

Well done. You managed to bully a 13 year old and drive them away from the site and any helpful info that may have been passed on. She/he only asked about what to do about a defensive doe and not about when to handle the kits. No reason (s)he should have to take advise (s)he never asked for. Not to mention that it was brought out that the general practice of handling kits in her country is different.

I suggest you review the forum's policy for future reference on appropriate discussion, especially where children are concerned.
'We ask that all forum users treat young and/or mentally challenged authors with kid gloves'.

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/showthread.php?t=10320

Ebonytherabbit, I hope you will continue to stick around.


This topic is closed.


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