# Abscess and fly strike



## Thumperina (Jun 4, 2016)

I don't know how it all happened so quickly. 
She had urine scald last summer, but it was gone and she was fine during cool season. Thumperina is a large 9 lbs girl with a lot of fur . She is 4 yo 
Now it's getting hot...She lives in the yard, taken inside for a night. . Yesterday I saw that she was trying to clean her privates and she was uncomfortable. Touched her butt - my hand was in blood. She had blood all over her butt and back legs. It was in the evening, so I washed her bottom and saw them... white worms, a lot of them. I had to wait till the morning to take her to the vet, today is Saturday. 
The vet I wanted wasn't there so his collegue saw us. She said Thumperina has an abscess, a hole in her body, a deep pocket filled with fly eggs or whatever they are called. A good thing, she said, is that her urinary tract seemed intact. 
they removed what they could and gave her one time med that was supposed to help kill those inside. I am given oral AB and pain med to give her at home. She has a large dewlap, giving medicine isn;'t easy at all. 
She was all right, eating and moving, before I took her to doc. Now she is stressed of course from everything that we did, plus she is brought indoors which is unusual for her. 
Several months ago I was told here on the forum to stop using cedar shavings for litter and I did, now using aspen shavings. Do you think she will process her AB OK? 
Anyway, this is our sad situation... I am praying that she pulls thru.


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## mightyscotto (Jun 4, 2016)

I am really sorry to hear about Thumperina. I will say plenty of prayers for her that she makes it through. I really hope the medicine works and that she gets better soon


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## Blue eyes (Jun 4, 2016)

Oh Bummer! Flystrike isn't pretty. Will pray she pulls through. Poor girl. :sad:


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## Thumperina (Jun 4, 2016)

thank you all. 
I can only say that she seems to have good appetite and she is alert. 

A question... if those maggots (fly larva) crawl off her in the house... are they dangerous to anybody else? I have young kids and cockatiel birds


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## Thumperina (Jun 4, 2016)

I wonder about the root problem. Something got her bleeding and having a wound in her privates. Any ideas? I was checking her butt but I guess not enough often.


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## Aki (Jun 4, 2016)

No, it's not dangerous for your kids or bird especially since the vet should have pulled out all the maggots. It's just flies, after all...
The root problem might very well be the flies themselves. Flies laying eggs close to the rabbit's private is a relatively frequent occurrence for outside rabbits when the weather is hot and the maggots will burrow themselves into the skin looking for a moist hot place. The eggs hatch in 24-48h and the maggots can eat the tissues until the reach the bones and kill the rabbit with toxins. It can go downhill very quickly.
Flies are particularly attracted to overweight bunnies (often, clean themselves a bit less thoroughly), long-haired bunnies, bunnies who have urinary infections or soft stools problems, wounds, abscesses... anything a bit dirty and moist will do (yeah, flies are disgusting)
It's possible your rabbit had an abscesses before the flies came. In that case, I would say an untreated wound who got infected. Just a little scratch can become nasty very quickly and if the maggots got into it, well...
Antibiotics, anti-inflammatory and a topical treatment like Nolvasan Otic (the vet probably shaved the area, didn't he?) are standard treatment.
If the rabbit is alert and eating, I'd say you probably caught it on time and your odds are pretty good. 
In the future, it might be advisable to take a quick look at your rabbits' bum everyday when it's hot outside as 24h is enough for the nasty creatures to appear (isn't that scary? no wonder insects will outlive us all...)


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## Thumperina (Jun 4, 2016)

thanks Aki
She said she removed what she could but she said more are in the tissue and she didn;t feel right digging into the tissue. 

She DIDN"T prescribed any topical treatment - even though I asked! According to her, there were not much more she could do. Should I go see another vet (the one who I usually see and who was off this Sat) to ask again about topical treatment? I don't feel good that I have to wait for 2 days...
She said she sprayed the area with something and she gave her internally something, but I don't see those meds in the bill. Strange, isn't it? 

Finally I saw Thumperina's stool. Not shaped, kinda small, and connected into a string. It's hard to watch poop when you have several rabbits housed together. I will definitely check my other buns for maggots. 

The stuff prescribed is 
sulfa/trimethoprim - AB 
meloxidyl - pain med 

Are they good meds?


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## Thumperina (Jun 4, 2016)

how long do they stay larva?


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## Azerane (Jun 4, 2016)

I'm very sorry to hear about this, fly strike is an awful thing. If you do go back to the vet, they should definitely remove the maggots that are inside the tissue, it may require local anesthetic, but they can't be left in there. If they haven't already I also recommend getting the fur off her rear end shaved down. This will make it easier to check for maggots, and also less attractive to more flies. There doesn't need to be a wound for fly strike to happen. Just a warm, damp place, perhaps a little bit of urine, or a tiny bit of stuck on poop is all it takes for a fly to want to lay its eggs there.

It may vary depending on species, but from what I'm reading, eggs hatch in about a day, the larvae are active for 3-4 days and then pupate for 3-5 days before becoming flies.

I'm not sure if it would help, but you could also try giving one of the rabbit safe topical treatments for fleas/ticks etc. And definitely give your other rabbits a thorough check as well. Once Thumperina has the all clear from the fly strike, you'll need to let her wounds heal completely before letting her outside again, otherwise it will simply attract flies again.


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## Thumperina (Jun 4, 2016)

thank you friends
I just transferred her to the (finished of course) basement where she will be more comfortable (she was in my bedroom first)
She fought me rather bad when I was trying to remove her from under my bed. 
I took a look on her privates. Didn't see any maggots but the skin definitely looks swollen and rotten. I am cautious to put anything on her skin that wasn;'t prescribed fearing to make it worse. I asked the vet when I was there if she would give her anything for the skin, she told NO. Lots of vets don't like when a patient insists, they think they know better (well, reasonable)
I see her pooping, poop still not the best but it;s poop. I don't see her peeing. Litterbox seems to be clean and no spills of urine around. Can she not be peeing at all? 

I checked my other rabbits. FooFoo is a small rabbit who cleans herself very well without problems. She is fine. Polly is overweight and has a problem to clean his butt and I was concerned about him but he didn't have anything that looked bad. 

Any proven ways to deter flies in the backyard?


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## Thumperina (Jun 4, 2016)

how about simple triple antibiotic cream??? Neosporin? By the way, she is not bleeding, just looks bad in there. 
They shaved her a little, and I certainly won't traumatize her skin by shaving her now. When she fully heals - yes, that I am hoping for.


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## RavenousDragon (Jun 5, 2016)

Did your vet want to do a check up soon? I would wait until then before putting anything on her skin. I would assume the vet would want to see her fairly soon, since it sounds pretty bad. 

In terms of keeping the flies out of the back yard, I have no idea how to prevent that, since flies can do just that- fly. It's actually a common problem for outside rabbits. Is there a way to keep them inside?


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## Thumperina (Jun 5, 2016)

The vet wants to see us in 2 weeks only! when medicine course is over. 
Again, this was a vet who worked on Sat in the clinic where I take my pets sometimes. I will probably go see another vet but it's all money money money... 

About keeping them indoors, first of all, my rabbits LOVE and used to be outdoors... for us, it's rather inconvenient too. I will be bringing them inside for the summer during the day when it's real hot, other than this, no, they will remain outdoors. Of course, Thumperina will stay inside until she heals.


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## Thumperina (Jun 6, 2016)

Thank you everyone for your replies! 
There is 2 doctors in that clinic. I used to be seeing a male doctor (and he was rather helpful, I also have birds), never dealt with the lady vet who works there. On Saturday he didn't work, so I had to see her as we had an emergency. 
Do you think it's OK to go to the same vet clinic and request a follow-up with the guy? Would it look like I don't trust the lady doctor we saw on Saturday? I think she did a good job cleaning her wounds, but two things worry me - that she wants to see us in 2 weeks only, and that she didn't prescribe anything for the skin. I guess going there on Monday for her to look at the wounds would be totally normal, but what if I go there to see not her but another doctor? 
Or should I just go there and ask both of them to look at Thumperina?


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## Azerane (Jun 6, 2016)

2 weeks, wow. I would be way too worried to have to wait two weeks to see a vet after fly strike. I would want a check up much sooner, that being said I've never had to deal with it.


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## Aki (Jun 6, 2016)

I would phone the vet (maybe asking for your normal one if you don't trust the other) explaining that the wound still looks bad and is bleeding and would really ask again if it wouldn't be wise to put a topical treatment to avoid it from getting infected. Your vet probably told you to take away any bedding / litter to avoid it from getting in the wound and to clean daily, keep the rabbit's bum as dry as possible.
Maybe you can pick something at the vet's counter without needing to bring the rabbit for another consultation.
Unfortunately there is not much you can do to avoid flies- they are just everywhere (maybe these disgusting glue paper things?). Keeping an eye of your rabbits to react quickly when the maggots problem occurs is the only thing you can do (it's not that frequent, though, your rabbit just probably had bad timing getting a small wound when flies were around).
Here are two articles about it:
http://rabbit.org/fly-strike/

http://rabbit.org/fly-strike-emergency/


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## RavenousDragon (Jun 6, 2016)

I've worked in veterinary hospitals for many years. You can totally request to see a specific doctor- especially if he normally sees your pets. If the other vet is offended by this, honestly, that's just sad. We have people request certain doctors all the time. Just explain you are worried about the wound and want a vet to check on it again, set up an appointment, and just explain that while you really appreciate how well Dr. So-and-so did with your animal, you are used to Dr. Regular and would love it if you could see him instead.


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## Thumperina (Jun 6, 2016)

RavenousDragon said:


> I've worked in veterinary hospitals for many years. You can totally request to see a specific doctor- especially if he normally sees your pets. If the other vet is offended by this, honestly, that's just sad. We have people request certain doctors all the time. Just explain you are worried about the wound and want a vet to check on it again, set up an appointment, and just explain that while you really appreciate how well Dr. So-and-so did with your animal, you are used to Dr. Regular and would love it if you could see him instead.


I did all this and he said that sure I can request an appointment as early as today...

Do people usually have a followup visit when they have a serious condition (just to bring in the animal to show the progress) that is free of charge? just to take a look and see if healing is on track? it's like a continuation of the previous care, in my opinion... 
You see, he prescribed me topical medicine for skin over the phone when I asked. but now I am in doubt. When she didn't prescribed one, did she have a reason for it? 

I would love to come and talk to both of them, having the rabbit with me... I don't want to pay for it as a regular visit. Am I expecting too much? 

Thanks RavenousDragon and Aki for your input


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## Aki (Jun 6, 2016)

Honestly, you can always ask to talk to both vets. But if you see the vet who seemed more experienced in rabbits it would already be a good thing. In my experience, they will do a follow up by phone but if you have a new visit, then you pay except if your vet is exceptionally nice. I'm taking Aki to the vet tomorrow after determining myself what the problem was to make the vet run some tests (I made my own list) and I will pay even though I took her 10 days ago and that the vet was unable to find anything wrong with her and completely missed the issue (she has cataract which made it difficult for her to spot the hay and caused GI stasis - the vet examined her and told me she was perfectly fine despite my insistance there was something weird about her).

About why the vet didn't prescribed topical medecine, well... maybe she doesn't know much about rabbits and didn't realize that they almost always need agressive care to get better because they are a lot more fragile than cats or dogs (sometimes in a clinic you have a small animal specialist and a "generalist" but you will see the generalist if you come on the day when the specialist isn't there and they will very seldom have the honesty to tell you). When I went to see the vet last time, I talked to one of the vets and explained that I treated the GI stasis problem myself with Emeprid. The woman looked at me with big eyes saying "but Emeprid won't work, it's to make the animal vomit". Yes, it is. For CATS. But it's been used to help the guts of rabbits to move for years. Besides, rabbits can't vomit. ^^'
When I lived in Paris, I had great rabbit specialists close by. Now that I live in a smaller city, I do a very thorough search before going to the vet trying to come up with a possible diagnostic, tests to be run and meds. That way I can ask for this and that to be checked to confirm my diagnostic and ask for the necessary meds accordingly. That's the only way I found to make sure nothing important was left out. I'll admit it takes a lot of time, that my parents and friends think I'm crazy and that vets don't like me much, but what can you do...


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## Thumperina (Jun 6, 2016)

thanks Aki and everybody who talk with me! 
I asked them and they said the cost of reckeck is $30. This office is a little stuck up (but good) 
I got cream for her skin. *Derma-vet*. Another $40 
I am so pissed..... just checked online and the cost is only 8.25, while I paid over 4o in their office!!! 
Does anyone know if *Derma Vet oinment* is safe for rabbits??? 
What can I use to gently clean her skin before applying it? 

Do you guys ask to prescribe generic meds?


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## RavenousDragon (Jun 6, 2016)

That is a HUGE mark up for meds- most vets aren't quite that awful where I am. 

I'm sorry you've had so many issues with the veterinarians. Most really are trying their best. Rabbits are just difficult. I hope that you can get your bun all back into shape. 

Sending my love for a speedy recovery.


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## Thumperina (Jun 7, 2016)

thank you so much/. 

I just wonder what would happen if I just used triple antibiotic cream for people.

I feel stupid. I have antibiotic powder that was prescribed to another rabbit, it's still not expired. I should have brought that powder with me and asked if I can use it for my sick girl, instead of picking up brand new cream. 

My concern is: when they prescribe, do they really prescribe what is best for my rabbit, or what they just have in stock? Again, it's useful to have a good exotic animal vet. That;s the key.


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## RavenousDragon (Jun 7, 2016)

The answer to that question does depend- is it better for your rabbit to get the meds now? Or wait until a better one either comes in or send you to a human pharmacy? Most veterinarians in my experience only carry meds which they believe are going to be the best for your pet (e.g. why carry one type of antibiotic if you think another is better?). 

Definitely don't use the human cream on your bunny. If she were to ingest it, it could cause serious problems. Bunnies also have very sensitive skin, so it might make things worse.


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## Thumperina (Jun 7, 2016)

thank you.
SHe is doing about the same.. eating, pooping, doesn;t seem to be stressed about her wounds. The wound looks about the same but I just started to applu cream so we will see if it works. 

Any of you guys heard about Furacilin? 
Is it widely used in my native country (very cheap and effective for many things), but I never heard about it in the US

Here is some info
http://edudrugs.com/F/Furacilin.html

Usually we crush a pill to dissolve it in water. I wish I would have it here to wash her wound.


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## Thumperina (Jun 8, 2016)

in general, what are possible outcomes of abscess?
Healing, dying, anything in between? 
Can it happen that the bun feels OK (so that situation isn;t life threatening) but the skin remains the way it is? Or is it always heal or die situation? 
My vet suggested laser therapy over the phone (without seeing her) - anybody tried? 
I am recalling reading that manuka honey can be helpful - or was it about another condition?


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## RavenousDragon (Jun 8, 2016)

As long as you are treating the abscess (which you are), generally, rabbits will do quite well. It takes a long time to heal, but they often do. 

I don't know about the honey, but I do know about the laser. It works WONDERS. And most animals (even birds!) like it a lot actually. It helps animals heal much faster (except for cancer). It sort of feels like a warm massage. Most vets charge quite a bit for it since the machines are so expensive, but it often takes less than 15 minutes (depending on the settings, wounds, etc.). I've had rabbits fall asleep in my lap when I'm lasering them.


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## Thumperina (Jun 8, 2016)

thank you once again, RavenousDragon and Aki,. 
they called me to see how she is doing, and suggested a shot of ivo... something (didn;t get it over the phone)... when I said the wound isn;t much better. 
Don;t know what it does. Poor Thumperina. 
I am taking her to the clinic today.


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## Thumperina (Jun 8, 2016)

I brought her to the vet today, we saw our regular doctor. 
The one who served us on Saturday took a look and said she was amazed how good it looks now compared to what she expected. 

They took a swab from her wound and it didn't show any infection or increased white blood cells. They shaved her more and scrubbed some debris and dead skin, and did laser too. 
They told me to do hydrotherapy at home and I will be bringing her for laser (which is $18 per each one)
Everything looks good so far


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## RavenousDragon (Jun 8, 2016)

That's GREAT news!!!! I'm glad to hear things are getting better. The lack of infection is a really good thing. Keep it up!


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## mikenyny (Jun 8, 2016)

Thumperina said:


> I don't know how it all happened so quickly.
> She had urine scald last summer, but it was gone and she was fine during cool season. Thumperina is a large 9 lbs girl with a lot of fur . She is 4 yo
> Now it's getting hot...She lives in the yard, taken inside for a night. . Yesterday I saw that she was trying to clean her privates and she was uncomfortable. Touched her butt - my hand was in blood. She had blood all over her butt and back legs. It was in the evening, so I washed her bottom and saw them... white worms, a lot of them. I had to wait till the morning to take her to the vet, today is Saturday.
> The vet I wanted wasn't there so his collegue saw us. She said Thumperina has an abscess, a hole in her body, a deep pocket filled with fly eggs or whatever they are called. A good thing, she said, is that her urinary tract seemed intact.
> ...


I hope she pulls through. About 2 years ago, my 2 year-old female semi Lion Head got fly strike. She started staying in the back covered area and wasn't coming out in the daytime, seeming what I would say "ashamed", so I took a look at her - picked her up and put her on my lap and I noticed large white 1cm worms in her backside. I got a small round plastic bowl with some soapy water and fortunately managed to pick them all out - maybe half a dozen, and washed her rear end thoroughly. I wormed all the rabbits straight away. Since then - 2 years ago - I wash her rear end in the bowl of luke warm water - with washing up liquid - changing the water 3 or 4 times, then drying her for 10 mins with old towels, twice a week. The male rabbits don't suffer with dirty bums.


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## Thumperina (Jun 9, 2016)

are you sure your bunny had fly larva? Mine had worms that were much smaller than 1 cm. 
Also, fly strike isn't contagious to other rabbits, there is nothing to worm. This is how my vet explained. 

I think Thumperina did not have a very pleasant time today at the vet. He removed a lot of skin off her, and now area looks naked, bloody and sensitive. She did't want to take her medication and seemed pretty stressed when I was trying to take care of her needs 
For some reasons she stopped eating pellets (she diesn't eat them since I housed her in the house). Basically she only eats veggies.


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## RavenousDragon (Jun 9, 2016)

Unfortunately, in order for tissue to heal- especially infected or dead tissue, the vet has to cut the bad stuff off and make it bloody. It sounds counter-intuitive, but in order to heal, you need blood. I'm sure she's stressed about being inside and in pain, but hopefully, as she gets better, she will start eating and being her normal self again. Did you happen to have Critical Care on hand?


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## Thumperina (Jun 9, 2016)

they gave me a small bag just in case. 
I developed back pain from manipulating her - carrying heavy travel cage with her, and so on.


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## Thumperina (Jun 10, 2016)

Thumperina is clearly depressed from staying in the basement. She eats very little now. I hate the situation. don't know what to do


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## JBun (Jun 10, 2016)

Does she have a bunny friend you could bring in as well to be with her? She may just be missing her friends.


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## Thumperina (Jun 11, 2016)

JBun said:


> Does she have a bunny friend you could bring in as well to be with her? She may just be missing her friends.


this is exactly what I did today. You know what? I could at least keep a track of what she ate and what she pooped... The friend ate all the food that was there )) He is already overweight. Not sure if I bring him again, but I think I will start letting her out a little bit (in the morning, before the heat) 
Her wound looks much much better, I will keep taking care of the wound of course and will control flies (already getting trap that is supposed to wotk like magic). She is very stubborn. While at home , She doesn't eat pellets, or hay or even grass that I brought for her. A little bit of veggies occasionally. That't it. She used to eat a lot of fresh grass in the yard. 
I think medicine starts bothering her too. She really refuses to take her meds (at the beginning she wasn;t resistant that much) , its been a week now... Do you think I can stop medicating her for now? There is no infection in her wound. She takes AB and anti inflammatory


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## Thumperina (Jun 11, 2016)

the problem is that if I bring friends in, then I will be taking them back out in the evening, but she will have to stay. more reasons to be depressed


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## Thumperina (Jun 11, 2016)

can medicine affect appetite? For people, I know, it can... 
She doesn;t even eat broccoli crowns that were always one of her favorite..
Can someone comment on the choice of medications please? Are they bunny friendly?

sulfa/trimethoprim - AB 
meloxidyl - pain med


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## Aki (Jun 11, 2016)

It's nice if the wound looks better, but her not eating (especially not eating hay) is not normal at all and quite concerning. It means she's in pain or feels uncomfortable, it's got nothing to do with her being stubborn. How much meloxidyl is she getting? What do her poops look like? Does she poop less than before, or are they small? How much is she eating exactly? If she's not pooping at all or pooping only a small amount and not eating enough, she's on her way to GI stasis (it can be caused by medication, stress, pain... so here it wouldn't really be surprising). If she is you have to act fast - she will need something to help gut mobility (emeprid/reglan), force feeding until she eats a decent amount, water fed with a syringe (a small 1ml one to avoid drowning her) and continuing pain medication. Stasis can sometimes be stopped after one or two days of treatment but it's unlikely to get better on it's own and you will have a much bigger problem on your hands if it evolves into a blockage.


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## Aki (Jun 11, 2016)

I know it gets really tiring feeling like there is always something wrong with your rabbit for weeks on end - stressing about it, treating it and paying for the vet... I myself just went through a whole month trying to find what was wrong with Aki who had several bout of unexplained stasis (finally found out and things seem to finally be OK). I'm exhausted, I still feel the stress of it all and I feel like I talked and thought about nothing but rabbit's poop for weeks which is kinda sad ^^.
But if the wound on your rabbit looks good, it's probable that once you've cured the stasis, you'll be able to put your rabbit back in her normal living environment and to finally think about something else.


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## Thumperina (Jun 11, 2016)

well she never ate hay, why should she start now? She usually eats grass in the yard. 
I'd say she poops enough but the poops are small.


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## Thumperina (Jun 11, 2016)

when I try to pick her up, she makes sounds... not sure how to describe it (that she is not happy with what I do). But she is quiet when she is left alone.


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## Aki (Jun 11, 2016)

Not eating hay is not much of a problem if the rabbit spends the day outside eating grass, but right now your rabbit is not outside. A rabbit normally eats their size in hay (because most of us use hay, considering most of us have inside rabbits), or in grass in your case. If you don't cut her size (3 - 4 big handfuls) in grass everyday to give it to her, then her system is slowing down due to the lack of fibers. It explains the small poops and her lack of eating. Give it 2 or 3 days like that and her guts will stop. You have to give her a lot of grass or hay to keep her guts moving. Vegetables or pellets aren't enough to get the job done.


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## Thumperina (Jun 11, 2016)

I mentioned I gave her grass... she didn't touch it.


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## Thumperina (Jun 11, 2016)

I am guessing she fears I will keep he in the house forever... And this stresses her very much. 
She eats her veggies... a little bit.

She takes 2.5 ml of Meloxidyl every 24 hours. 
concentration is 1.5 mg/ml 
She is a 9 lbs bunny 
Is this dose reasonable?


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## Akzholedent (Jun 12, 2016)

I know with people, they always say to finish your antibiotic. If you only use half of it, you run the risk of the infection not only coming back, but being worse than it was because the bacteria are getting time to develop a resistance. It's definitely better to keep her on the meds until they're completely done. :-(

My fiance bought some rather premium looking hay for our buns, and Butterscotch (who isn't the biggest hay fan), has been eating every stalk he can find. It's the Oxbow Western Timothy Hay, and they love it. Maybe try getting a small bag of some good looking hay just for her (if you haven't done that already). It might be the change that will get her eating again.


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## RavenousDragon (Jun 12, 2016)

Definitely don't stop giving her the meds. She needs to finish the antibiotics (she probably is feeling better, which is why she's being more difficult about taking them). The pain meds seems like the right dose, and if you take her off of that, then she probably will stop eating entirely. 

She definitely needs to start eating. If you have Critical Care- start feeding her that. You could also force feed her a pellet mush (you can mix it with fruit flavored baby food for flavor if you want) to at least keep her GI tract moving.


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## Thumperina (Jun 12, 2016)

yesterday she decided to go on a hunger strike so I had to feed her Critical care.
This is the first rime I am dealing with it, I had to watch YouTube video and didn't have a good syringe. It was a TORTURE and a MESS for both of us. It took a few hours and I am still not sure how much ended up inside her. 
What do you use to feed critical care guys? 

Today in the morning I let her out in the yard and she was back to her normal self, the rabbit I know. I gave her a few hours to enjoy the yard and her friends, she was again the first one to run to me when it was feeding time. When I brought her in, I washed her wound and it still looked the same. They told me to wash it with the kitchen hose. I think I will be letting her out a little bit then checking her wound. She needs to stop being depressed. 
I would love to put a bandage on it to keep germs out but not sure how.


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## Thumperina (Jun 12, 2016)

usually, advice to finish AB applies to the situation when people want to stop after 3-4-5 days. She has taken AB for 9 days now. Also, what are we treating? They took a tester from her wound and there is no infection. so we pretty much taking them "just in case"

I have American pet dinner high fiber hay. Its a good hay


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## Akzholedent (Jun 12, 2016)

That's great that she did so well outside! I was going to suggest taking her out for a bit, but wasn't sure if the vet recommended not doing so.  so glad she was acting happy and normal. ^_^ 

As for the critical care question, someone else will have to answer that. I haven't had the need for it yet.


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## Thumperina (Jun 12, 2016)

thank you all! 
Can a rabbit be eating vegetables but still have GI statis? If they eat... does it mean, the food goes thru, right? (I am not saying the right food, like hay, just any food, even a piece of banana... )


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## Thumperina (Jun 13, 2016)

another question. I have to flip her on her back in order to wash her wound and then blow dry it and apply ointment. I am reading it may be very stressful and not even safe. Sometimes she is OK with it, sometimes she is scared. I can tell that she hates when I blow dry her bum. 
Do you think I can wash her, etc differently? Is having them on their side better for them?


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## Thumperina (Jun 13, 2016)

I thought to try manuka honey to accelerate healing but then I thought if she goes outside (and it's hot) it may not be a good idea, unless honey is fully absorbed by her skin. What you think?


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## RavenousDragon (Jun 13, 2016)

Feeding Critical Case is ALWAYS a messy job if they aren't eating it on their own. 

I would say that if she has done OK flipping her on her back until now. she should be fine for the duration of the treatments. We try to practice flipping our little ones on their backs shortly just to get them used to it. 

I would avoid putting honey on it for now, as honey can have bacteria that COULD make it worse (probably not, but still). 

You can potentially still have some GI stasis if they are eating, even a little. But eating some is a very good sign. Just keep trying to get her to eat (as you have been) and keep up with the treatments! 

It sounds like she might be getting better finally (hopefully). I think I answered all your questions- if I missed one, let me know.


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## Thumperina (Jun 14, 2016)

after letting her out a few times it seemed to me that I saw things might be getting a bit worse (her wound) so I stopped letting her out. At first she was eating OK in the basement but then she again went on a hunger strike.
Actually, even I would be depressed not to see any sunshine. and she used to be outdoors all the time, so her depression could be understood. 
I start manuka honey treatment. I have read a lot about it, how to choose a good honey and so on. It's been used to successfully treat abscesses in rabbits


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## mikenyny (Jun 14, 2016)

Thumperina said:


> another question. I have to flip her on her back in order to wash her wound and then blow dry it and apply ointment. I am reading it may be very stressful and not even safe. Sometimes she is OK with it, sometimes she is scared. I can tell that she hates when I blow dry her bum.
> Do you think I can wash her, etc differently? Is having them on their side better for them?


I have read to never place a rabbit on its back; there are a number of reasons not to do this. What I do is put the rabbit on its side and place a small rolled up towel behind it to make it feel secure.


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## mikenyny (Jun 14, 2016)

Thumperina said:


> well she never ate hay, why should she start now? She usually eats grass in the yard.
> I'd say she poops enough but the poops are small.


Hay or grass: as long as it is one or the other is okay.


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## Thumperina (Jun 15, 2016)

mikenyny said:


> Hay or grass: as long as it is one or the other is okay.


she doesn't eat hay, and grass doesn't grow in the house where she has to be kept. She doesn't eat grass that I pick for her in the yard. 

Thank you all guys for your input, discussion, advice and support. 

I will be taking her for recheck tomorrow.


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## Thumperina (Jun 15, 2016)

mikenyny said:


> I have read to never place a rabbit on its back; there are a number of reasons not to do this. What I do is put the rabbit on its side and place a small rolled up towel behind it to make it feel secure.


well the main reason is because they can flip themselves in the normal position and hurt themselves 
The second, while on the back, they are in trans and have no control over anything which is kind of stressful for them. 
Its not recommended to place them on the back by a novice owner. 
I have to use kitchen hose (small shower) to wash her privates and there is nobody to help me with that. I have to hold her (on her back) with one arm while another hand is holding the shower. While doing this, I try to get her wet minimally.


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## Thumperina (Jun 15, 2016)

anyone had any experience using Manuka in rabbits? 
Should I cover the application area after it's applied? Otherwise, I am afraid it will end up on the carper  
If I should cover, how?


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## mikenyny (Jun 16, 2016)

Thumperina said:


> well the main reason is because they can flip themselves in the normal position and hurt themselves
> The second, while on the back, they are in trans and have no control over anything which is kind of stressful for them.
> Its not recommended to place them on the back by a novice owner.
> I have to use kitchen hose (small shower) to wash her privates and there is nobody to help me with that. I have to hold her (on her back) with one arm while another hand is holding the shower. While doing this, I try to get her wet minimally.


I have posted this (procedure) a couple of times:
1. Plastic garden table, plastic garden chair, small round plastic bowl, container of washing up liquid. Pair of small, rounded scissors. 2 x 5 litre containers with warm water. Some old towels.
2. Have the table to the left of the chair - if you are right-handed. 
3. 1/3 fill the bowl with soapy water.
4. Capture your rabbit, sit on the chair and place her on your lap - on an old towel.
5. Lift her up to your chest and move the bowl of water onto your lap.
6. Gently lower the rabbit's REAR END (only) into the water - so that she can have her front legs on the side of the bowl to support her. 
7. With your right hand, gently wash/splash water onto her rear. Dip your fingers into the washing up liquid to clean her and continue splashing her rear with the water. 
8. To change the water, lift her up to your chest and (with your right hand) empty the water and replace clean water from one of the 5 litre bottles. 
9. Continue until she is clean. 
10. Lift her up to your chest, remove the bowl and place 1 towel under her and dry her rear with another towel. (Takes 10 mins to dry my rabbit).


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## Thumperina (Jun 16, 2016)

We went to the vet today. 
The outside of the wound is healing very well but she has a cavity that didn't get any smaller since the last visit a week ago.... I actually discovered it only this morning when I was using cotton swab with manuka and suddenly fell thru an opening. It's basically a hole... empty hole, no pus, maybe it's her original punctured wound that caused fly strike. it's hard to say. 
The vet said that I can let her out a little bit so she can eat grass. This is what she was doing today. We had huge storm and heat cooled down. 
We are also taking a break from all oral medicine. He said that its important that she catches up with her digestive health


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## Thumperina (Jun 16, 2016)

mikenyny - thanks! 
I don't use any soap.


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## Azerane (Jun 18, 2016)

I'm glad to hear that she is doing well. I hope that she continues to improve


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## Thumperina (Jun 19, 2016)

thank you Azerane and everybody/ 
I let her out twice a day and apply manuka honey twice a day. Its very hot where we are. 
Her stool improved a lot since she goes outside. I don't see much improvement with her wound but it doesn't get worse. The vet says if it doesn't heal in a month, he will want to surgically level that area (remove cavity inside her body)

I am thinking how she got cavity inside her (it reminds me human vagina, sorry for comparison). Can it be prolapse? 

Could someone else comment on placement bunny in her back please? Is it harming a rabbit in any way, except for the _risk_ that she can break her spine if reverse unsuccessfully?


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## RavenousDragon (Jun 19, 2016)

I know I stated it already, but I've always placed my rabbits on their backs (only AFTER they trust me, of course). So long as they aren't going into a trance where they are super still and quiet (this indicates EXTREME FEAR), and you can old her so she doesn't break her back, I think it's totally fine. My baby Brandy literally doesn't care anymore if she's on her back. Probably because she knows treats happen when she's on her back. Whiskey, my other kid, still hates being on his back, so we are working on practicing that with him so it becomes less scary. 

In terms of the cavity- since it's basically missing tissue, it cannot prolapse (unlike our natural openings, which have enough tissue to do so.


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## Thumperina (Jun 19, 2016)

they DO go into trans when on their back. My rabbit is in trans when I do it. But it's the only way I found to have her treated. I tried to put her on the kitchen counter kind of on the side, but she tries to reverse. The only way for me to have a control is holding her on my bent arm, like people hold babies


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## Thumperina (Jun 21, 2016)

I would like to report that Manuka Honey seems to work (fingers crossed)! 
She is not on any medication except the honey, goes outside twice a day, poops much better, has good appetite, and her internal cavity seems to be shrinking. At least my Q tip doesn't fall thru like it used to. I can hardly insert it now. 

You only need a good certified honey. I am using Manuka Health MGO 400+


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