# Doesn't look right 'down there', and jelly-like urine. So worried



## jcottonl02 (Mar 31, 2009)

I've already booked a vets appointment but I wanted to get your guys help calming me down and telling me what this might be.

Pippin seems to have lots of jelly-like crystals in his urine- they are orange, soft, and a few millimetres wide, dotted all over the floor, along with wet urine.

I looked at his little area, to see if it all looked okay, and on one side of his urethra there looks like a black swelling, which opens. It's really weird and I can't see one on the other side.

He has had no changes in diet, or been on medication for anything.

He is eating, drinking, pooping fine. He is happy and well, washing and binkying. What could that all be about??


----------



## pamnock (Mar 31, 2009)

You might find this article helpful.

http://www.rabbit.org/health/urolith.html


----------



## tonyshuman (Mar 31, 2009)

I'm not sure they're uroliths because my understanding was that bladder stones are hard and white-off white, not orange and gooey. It may be very thick bladder sludge if the chunks are grainy in texture at all. You called them jelly-like crystals, which is confusing to me because crystals are hard and jelly is soft, so I'm not sure what the things are really like. Crystals definitely mean bladder sludge, which can be lots of crystals together in something with the overall consistency of toothpaste. Obviously it is best to get him to a vet ASAP. 

When you say the opening is near the urethra, are you sure it isn't the urethra itself? It would make sense that the urethra would be stretched and more open than normal if he had passed or was in the process of passing a bladder stone. However, this opening would be the urethra itself, not something next to it. Are you 100% sure it's not a scent gland?

It may be sludge and/or bladder stones, usually caused by a bladder infection. The vet should take a urine sample and give you antibiotics if it appears to be an infection. More fluid can only help at this point. You may have to eliminate all sources of calcium in his diet. Our library article on Urinary Tract Problems was recently updated with several recent stories and some new info. Good luck!


----------



## naturestee (Mar 31, 2009)

Jelly-like is odd. Maybe clumped up bladder sludge? You say it's dotted all over the floor- is this his normal urinary habits or has it changed lately? This can sometimes be caused by bladder infections.

I'm glad you're going to the vet. An exam and urinalysis should tell you a lot about what's going on. Hopefully something simple!


----------



## tonyshuman (Mar 31, 2009)

Yeah forgot to mention that incontinence and urinating out of the litterpan is frequently a sign of urinary infection.


----------



## jcottonl02 (Mar 31, 2009)

Thanks alot for all your comments guys.

I described them as jelly-like crystals to try and portray the fact that they looked like crystals (small and squarish) but were soft like jelly. 

Well here's the verdict:

The dark, weird opening on one side of the urethra was just a build-up of something. Common in rabbits etc. Cause is unknown apparently, but it appears to be some sort of product from the sexual organs, a bit like earwax for us. It was on both sides, and he showed me- I could not hold Pippin and look well at the same time, but he held him well and showed me. He wiped it out with a wet towell and it was just like dark earwax. So that was all fine!!

As for the jelly-like urine- I brought a sample for him. I had looked up lots about it and just couldn't find something that fitted. It wasn't sandy etc. or like toothpaste, so it wasn't bladder stones etc.
But he was baffled. All the vets were. He asked whether (however silly this question) if I knew for certain it was from his urine. I could only assume so.

But he said, as it is, and in Pippin's healthy condition, and that there has been no other change, and it is not a sign of something bad, he said it is probably just fine. He said to keep a good eye on Pippin for any signs of change, and check his urine for it. If it occurs more then they will run a series of tests.


Yeah....Pippin has just never taken to litter training. It's really weird. He treats his 'bedroom' as a litter tray. He doesn't wee anywhere else in the house or hutch. He just wees in all four corners of his 'bedroom' bless him. That is not a sign of an infection etc is it? He just didn't litter train well, and has chosen four spots in which to alternate his toiletry habits lol! Both wees and poos!!

Thanks a lot guys. I am so glad everything is okay. Seeing the black swellings (I saw the black through thin skin, so it looked like blood under skin) was just terrifying. I'll keep a good eye on his urine for more jelly stuff, IF it was actually from his urine. But I can't see what else it could be from. But the vet had never seen anything like it.
He is binkying, washing, eating, drinking, energetic and completely himself, well-formed droppings and the same amount of urine as normal, with normal consistently and colour, except about 12 little tiny crystal (looking!) jelly things.


----------



## tonyshuman (Mar 31, 2009)

Ah the brown stuff was accumulation in his scent glands. I clean them on my guys approx monthly when I do their nails with a Q-tip and baby oil.

Are we 100% sure he is a boy? The reason I ask, is that it could be vaginal discharge, indicative of an infection. When you said they were all over the floor, I thought that was abnormal for him.

And this jelly-like stuff isn't in his poo, and not at all gritty like sand? Curious...


----------



## Maureen Las (Mar 31, 2009)

Is the vet rabbit experienced. ?
I have no idea what the jelly stuff is but thought an experienced vet would know ???:?

if he is peeing all over the room that is an indicator of a bladder infection in a rabbit that usually doesn't exhibit that behavior


----------



## pamnock (Mar 31, 2009)

*jcottonl02 wrote: *


> The dark, weird opening on one side of the urethra was just a build-up of something. Common in rabbits etc. *The waxy substance is from scent glands on either side of the genitals.*





> But he was baffled. All the vets were. He asked whether (however silly this question) if I knew for certain it was from his urine. I could only assume so. *I wondered about your description also - a jelly-like mucous is secreted by the intestines and sometimes discharged in clumps when rabbits have GI problems.*





> *Is your rabbit a homozygousbrokenpattern? I see the "jelly stools" most often in homozygous brokens such asDwarf Hotots due to genetic issues with thegut.
> *


Pam


----------



## pamnock (Apr 3, 2009)

Any updates?


----------



## jcottonl02 (Apr 6, 2009)

My vet is quite rabbit savvy yes. He seems to be very confident on the subject and specialised in exotics (this was when rabbits were classed as exotics).

Yes I'm 100% sure he is a boy- there was some confusing at the beginning, but once he was neutered we are now positive 

No I don't think he has any urinary problem. The reason I say this is that- yes okay he doesn't use a litter tray, but he wees in three corners of his bedroom, and seemingly quite deliberately. He doesn't wee inside, he doesn't wee anywhere else at all, except those three corners (it's usually mostly in just one). So I am pretty sure he has no problem in that area.

Well I have been checking his urine very thoroughly....and there are no jelly bits there anymore. I've checked and checked and there is absolutely nothing. So I am very glad about that, but just a tad confused.

Yeah it was from the scents glands!!! Thanks- I forgot what the vet had said exactly, but just knew it was a waxy build up and it wasn't harmful.

My vet looked in all his books, checked with all other vets in the practise, because he was quite puzzled by the sample I had brought him. That was why he asked 'are you positive this was from his urine?'. None of them had seen anything like it, because, as you guys have said, it wasn't representitive of any problems. It would be sandy or gritty etc, and it wasn't. So maybe it wasn't from him.....I don't know how, but maybe it was something else.

But it hasn't happened since, he's weeing as usual and is behaving completely normal, so I am not worried. 

Thanks for all your help guys- really appreciate it.


----------



## dquesnel (Apr 6, 2009)

Hi, now that I think of it I have seen jelly-like urine from a bun before. It happened off and on, maybe a few times a year. He did not have an infection or problems, although when the urine had the jelly like texture he also left many cecals around, his GI system seemed somewhat interrupted, and he definitely had been given an excess of sugar from a well-meaning individual that slipped him one two many treats! 

I don't know the cause of your guys past urine issue, but the fact that it hasn't happened again is good. It still may be a urinary issue, with male rabbits it can happen really quickly and with no consistency. Most of the time they will soil themselves as well. 

Have you tried putting a litter pan in each corner? This may totally be an unpractical thing to do but it has worked with some rabbits to control the litter habits a bit better. I'm guessing its hard on you to have to scrub down the corners all the time!


----------



## jcottonl02 (Apr 6, 2009)

Thanks for your post- how interesting- that makes me feel a little less confused about the situation. But no, it hasn't happened again- maybe it was due to too many sugary fruits?

Yeah that is a very good point. It is just the teensiest bit annoying but it has to be done. That sounds like quite a good idea...don't know why i haven't thought of that before. Might try that!!! Thanks


----------



## tonyshuman (Apr 6, 2009)

Jelly like mucus can come from the GI tract, which is a sign of a pretty serious infection. Since it hasn't shown up yet, and it sounds like his litter habits (although he isn't exactly box-trained) didn't change, it's probably just something to remember and keep an eye out for. Thanks for answering all those questions we had.

Do you give him any petroleum-based laxatives (like Laxatone, Fibreplex, or Petromalt) on a regular basis? I have seen jelly-like stuff on the poo of a bunny who was given that.

If it hasn't happened again, it sounds like he's ok.


----------



## pamnock (Apr 6, 2009)

A small amount of mucus is normally produced in the intestinal tract. Increase in the amount of mucus may signify abnormality, but does not always indicate infection. Inflammation is a common cause of increased mucus as are bacterial or viral infections as well as parasitic infestations. In more serious cases, the mucus can be indicative of bowel obstruction.

As I mentioned previously, mucus in poo is sometimes seen in homozygous broken patterns because the gene also affects the nerves in the intestines. This is something we see occasionally in breeding Dwarf Hotots. Because the rabbits in the avatar appear to be broken homozygous, I would consider the possibility that there is a genetic predisposition to this problem. These rabbits also seem to be more prone to cocci infections.

Pam


----------



## jcottonl02 (Apr 6, 2009)

Hmm...all this talk of serious infections is getting me really worried now.

His urine seems consistent in colour and thickness etc. He seems to have no problem urinating eg. straining. There is never any blood or anything unusual about his urine except for these tiny jelly bits. But, as I am not 100% positive they came from him, and it hasn't happened since, then I am not too worried. Becuase if it was an infection it would still be there right? Or at least show up more than once?

Other than his litter tray habits being a little out, he seems completley normal in that area. I've never been able to litter train him- he's a stubborn little bubs. But he has chosen his three consistent corners in which to urinate- one is where the litter tray is, and he does go in the litter tray. He just goes in two other corners too.

His appetite is completely normal, as is his thirst. He is totally himself and I haven't noticed anything else odd.

I am completely open minded about this sort of thing, and am usually the first to get worried and whizz him down to the vets at any sign of illness (there is usually never anything wrong lol), but should I really be worried about his urinary habits? I am looking out for all signs, but he does seem totally fine. Does it seem serious, from all the information I've given?

Is there any possibility that something he ate made his urine clump together ever so slightly that day? The little jelly bits.....there were about maybe 10 of them. They couldn't have been more than one mm square, and were cuboid. They were tiny and very soft. They appeared to dry and almost disappear when they had dried. I tried to find them again but they sort of just....dried and disappeared.


Pamnock- thanks for the info. I will be sure to look out for that. As far as I can see, both buns have completely normal poops. Two different kinds- cecals, which sometimes they don't eat, naughty bubs. And the other harder, smaller and slightly lighter kind. It all seems totally normal there but I will def keep a watch out for mucus in poop, from your info.


----------



## pamnock (Apr 6, 2009)

*jcottonl02 wrote: *


> Hmm...all this talk of serious infections is getting me really worried now.



The most common incidence of mucus in the droppings is in young rabbits suffering from a seriousbacterial infection (mucoid enteropathy).

This isn't the case with your rabbit, so I would not be overly concerned. 

Pam


----------



## tonyshuman (Apr 6, 2009)

Yeah if it were mucoid enteropathy it would have continued with very serious consequences and wouldn't have gone away on its own.


----------



## Haley (Apr 6, 2009)

Im glad to hear your bun is doing ok. Scent glands can look (and smell) pretty awful if you dont know what youre looking at. 

As for the urine, I would keep an eye on it as well as his poops for now. Any chance you can use some white carefresh as litter so you can see it better? If it comes up again, I would definitely get a urinalysis. 

Keep us posted!


----------



## jcottonl02 (Apr 7, 2009)

Thanks everyone. Yeah I was so shocked when I saw the dark stuff, but I am so so glad it turned out to be nothing! It just wiped away.

Thanks Haley. I use a sort of grey-light colour litter. I've been cheking since and everything still seems normal. I will still keep a good eye on it, but I am quite confused (although very glad that nothing appears to be wrong). 
I'll be sure to let you all know if it does appear again, although I am hoping it won't do! It hasn't ever before, and it must have been about four or five days since it appeared that one time, and hasn't appeared again, so cross fingers it is nothing.


----------

