# A short note about advertising



## TinysMom (Jun 3, 2010)

Hi! I just pulled a thread from here and some of y'all might notice it is gone. 

I thought I'd share the policies (as I understand them) while the moderators discuss this again.

We don't usually allow advertising here unless some of the proceeds are going to help rescues. 

This means we don't allow advertising of bunnies for sale - and we try to not allow other types of advertising.

You can always put a link in your profile if you have a store or a website with items for sale.

I'm sorry if I seem abrupt here - I'm fighting a migraine and feel lousy - but just wanted to let y'all know where the missing thread went.

Thanks for understanding!

Peg


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## dixonsrabbitry1 (Jun 3, 2010)

Maybe you guys should make a separate forum on here for those of us that do have rabbits for sale. sales also apply to rescues too. Not to start anything, but it would be unfair if the rescues are allowed to adopt and sell their animals on here, but breeders aren't. Not every breeder is going to support rescue when the cost of the rabbit in question barely covers the feed supplies. I am on a bird one where all aspects are supported, including rescue and sales. Works for everyone. they seem to be happy. Just some thoughts.


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## dixonsrabbitry1 (Jun 3, 2010)

also i looked through the site and there doesn't seem to be any official forums rules that apply to anything. Unless i have missed something?


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Jun 3, 2010)

DixonRabbitry - Rescues don't "sell" their animals, they rehome them for an adoption fee.  Just thought I'd clarify that. 

Emily


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## dixonsrabbitry1 (Jun 3, 2010)

There isn't much of a difference. It all comes down to how you view it. Money passes between the owner and the person adopting or selling it(sometimes its considered a resale). My point is that both from breeders and rescues should be considered to be allowed here. If not, then no sales, at all. Like I said it wouldn't be fair to the breeders on here if the rescue side is allowed to do it. (Which I see they are). Why not have something for both. Breeders certainly aren't hurting anyone when they sell their rabbits, and rescues aren't either. Most of us here are pretty responsible with them when it comes to it. I am sure the mods would catch anyone that isn't.


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## dixonsrabbitry1 (Jun 3, 2010)

Also I should clarify that I don't rescues are making money. I think my comment may have made it sound like that. LOL. As long as the bunny finds a good home......


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## Shaded Night Rabbitry (Jun 3, 2010)

Like always, I feel the need to put my 2 cents in.

I do think that i'd be nice to have a for sale board on here someone. Just to let people get the word out about their rabbits...

And just like rescues ask for $50-80 to cover a spay/neuter, and the cost of feed.... The rabbits I sell for $30-60.... Basically covers the cost of feed (Pfaus is expensive. Over $30 a bag.), and a little extra for time, training, and space. I've yet to profit on a sale. It's gone directly back to pay for another bag of feed, a bale of hay, some medicine. All that sorta stuff. Although, there is a difference between that and asking $150 for a show rabbit with 2 legs. I'm not sure how you'd separate the two... But idk.


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## Luluznewz (Jun 3, 2010)

Okay I just have to say that I'm a tad offended that anyone would think breeding rabbits and selling them is the same thing as what the adoption agencies are doing.

Adoption agencies take rabbits that are going to be abandoned and give them a safe place to live. Some rabbit stay there for months and the adopt fee never changes. It is 20-60 dollars for a rabbit that includes a spay. The spay alone often costs more than that. They take rabbits that are already in the world. They barely recover their losses. They pay for the care of animals that were someone elses responsibility. 

Breeders CREATE MORE RABBITS and then sell those rabbits.Of course they should be responsible for the costs, they created them. They choose to bring the animals into the world. Yes, sometimes they dont make much money off it but they are choosing to add more living things to the equation. Agencies would love to get less rabbits. It means less are being abandoned.

I have NOTHING against good breeders. I do, however, have a huge problem with saying breeders are the same as adoption agencies.

They arent even kind of similar, seriously. Adoption agencies save lives and breeders create them. I wouldnt have any problem with a board being devoted to the sale of rabbits, but I think you should admit that those rabbits are being sold, not rescued. 

All I'm saying is that its extremely offensive (in my opinion) to argue that adoption agencies are selling rabbits the same way breeders are. I dont mean to offend anyone, but that just seems deeply silly to me. It hurts me a little that rabbit lovers (breeders and non breeders) can't all recognize that there are too many rabbits that are abandoned in shelters looking for homes. 

I'm sorry I'm just a little mad. Like I said, there is nothing wrong with breeding at all, but dont try and claim shelters sell their animals.


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Jun 3, 2010)

*Luluznewz wrote: *


> Yes, sometimes they dont make much money off it but they are choosing to add more living things to the equation. Agencies would love to get less rabbits. It means less are being abandoned.


The rabbits that circulate through the rescue/adoption situation are very often not from reputable breeders. One may occasionally be dropped off, but reputable breeders go to similar extents as adoption agencies when they're looking for pet homes.

However, most animals stay within the breeding/show circle anyway. So the rabbits breeders create stay within the realm of responsible owners, in general terms.

The rabbits ending up at adoption agencies are most often the product of backyard breedings operations, irresponsible pet owners, and the like. Just thought I'd clarify that, because the reputable breeders on this forum are not really the issue you're dealing with at a rescue.

As mentioned, breeders make nothing off of sales. Even those who can sell top quality for higher prices are lucky if they break even. So neither group is benefitting from the exchange of money for rabbits. The only ones who are, are the previously mentioned backyard breeders and such. Just thought I'd clarify.

----------------------------

On a side note, I think a sale forum strictly for the breeding/show area would be a great idea. If the pet end of the forum supports rescue, I think that what DixonsRabbitry was saying about a sale forum makes sense. Both groups would benefit.


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## Shaded Night Rabbitry (Jun 3, 2010)

Where do you live for rabbits to cost $20-60? It's very rare for a rabbit to be under $80 from a rescue here.

And I never said that I'm a rescue, and that I wasn't 'selling' rabbits. I most certainly am. But I'm also selling purebred, fancy rabbits with great temperments. The majority of rabbits in shelters I've seen have been there for a reason...

It's supply and demand. Say, if I weren't here... Then someone would be going to the other CL breeders I see, who house their rabbits in crummy conditions, overcrowd, and underfeed. There may be 20 rabbits in a seattle shelter, but out of those, how many don't have health problems such as maloclussion or snuffles? How many after that don't have some type of behavorial problem, like cage aggression, or biting issues?

I'd much rather purchase a $40 rabbit from a breeder who's cages and animals I can see, who's animals are vet checked by a knowledgable vet (the two rescues I've had contact with were vet checked by students, who didn't know a thing about rabbits. They fed so many bad foods that the rabbit died a week after leaving, due to pure dehydration and side effects from diarrea)

It's not a one sided deal. I'm constantly emailed by people being yelled at for bringing more lives of healthy, well tempered animals into the world, while there's "perfectly good" ones in the shelter. Out of all of those, how many are actually pet worthy? Quite few in my experience.


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## dixonsrabbitry1 (Jun 3, 2010)

Hi. Lulz i don't think either of us meant to offend. It just depends on how you view it.  Coming from a breeders pov it looks like a sale. However, i do understand that many of the animals are taken out of bad situations and a lot of work of work is put into them. There is also a lot of work put into breeding show quality, and even the pet quality rabbits that come out of those show lines. Another point is is that if you are going to have a website that supports both breeding and rescue then the breeders should also have their own space where they would be allowed to sell(or adopt,, whatever you want to call it) their animals too. It just doesn't seem fair that rescues can advertise but breeders are reprimanded for it. We may be creating more, but we are also striving to breed purebred, healthy animals, that are show quality,and would also make excellent pets, 4h bunnies, etc. Few show quality animals make it into the shelters, and that is providing that she shelter actually takes in rabbits at all. (Most in my area rarely see them, unless you go upstate a bit).

rabbittalk.com is a forum that does something like that. 

pigeon talk is another.


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## dixonsrabbitry1 (Jun 3, 2010)

*OakRidgeRabbits wrote: *


> *Luluznewz wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Yes, sometimes they dont make much money off it but they are choosing to add more living things to the equation. Agencies would love to get less rabbits. It means less are being abandoned.
> ...


Yes. And maybe we could be encouraged (not forced0 to donate a little bit of the money to animal rescues in one way or another. I like donating to the bunny bunch every now and then. Never been through a rabbit sale. But on ebay with artwork. i also donate part of my art sales to a wildlife center too.


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## TinysMom (Jun 3, 2010)

*dixonsrabbitry1 wrote: *


> also i looked through the site and there doesn't seem to be any official forums rules that apply to anything. Unless i have missed something?


*Unacceptable Behavior (Subject toWarnings):*

- name calling

- ridiculing of another's opinion

- failure to 'agree to disagree'

- the posting of obviously inflammatorytopics (eg: rabbit meat, breeder vs.animal rights attacks) 

- overly abrasive or negative posts on any topic

- personal vendettas

- 'advertising' or linking other forums or commercialventuresin posts (see Content Rulesfor advertising policies).

Forum Decorum


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## Luluznewz (Jun 3, 2010)

I think the point of my first post was very clear and may have been responded too differently than expected.

I wasn't saying that reputable breeders contribute to the over crowded shelters, because I dont think they do. I realize its backyard breeders causing the problem.

Also, I completely understand why some people get rabbits from breeders...I'm considering doing it myself. They are assured to get a healthy, pretty, great rabbit. So, again, that what not what I was saying.

I was just saying that it is very different than adopting and I resent the implication that the two are somehow even remotely similar. Shelters rescue animals and breeders produce high quality animals that improve the standard. They are both great for different reasons... If you want to save an animal go to a shelter, if you want a quality assured rabbit go to a breeder. 

I think the point of my post was pretty clear, and I feel like the point has been made, so I wont go on any further. I am sorry if I ruffled any breeders feathers, because I had no intention of insulting your practices. 

I just think everyone on this site can / should see the difference between shelters and breeders.

Like I said, I would like a "for sale" board, it would be fun to see all the cute bunnies!


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## dixonsrabbitry1 (Jun 3, 2010)

thank you. its really confusing because I had a heck of a time finding anything like that. Maybe that section shoul dbe renamed forum rules?


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## TinysMom (Jun 3, 2010)

*dixonsrabbitry1 wrote: *


> Maybe you guys should make a separate forum on here for those of us that do have rabbits for sale. sales also apply to rescues too. *Not to start anything, but it would be unfair if the rescues are allowed to adopt and sell their animals on here, but breeders aren't.* Not every breeder is going to support rescue when the cost of the rabbit in question barely covers the feed supplies. I am on a bird one where all aspects are supported, including rescue and sales. Works for everyone. they seem to be happy. Just some thoughts.


No - it would NOT be unfair at all.

Rescues often LOSE money (more so than breeders) when adopting out rabbits because they need to get donations to help cover the cost of the spay unless they find a vet who will charge them only a little OR possibly donate their services.

*I apologize for this whole thread - I actually meant to lock it just so folks would know why a thread had disappeared versus starting a discussion like this. 


*


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## dixonsrabbitry1 (Jun 3, 2010)

I think I am going to have to politely disagree, tinys mom. I think it is something you guys should consider, since there seems to be some that like the idea. its also a good discussion, so no need to apologize.


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## SnowyShiloh (Jun 3, 2010)

*Shaded Night Rabbitry wrote: *


> Where do you live for rabbits to cost $20-60? It's very rare for a rabbit to be under $80 from a rescue here.
> 
> And I never said that I'm a rescue, and that I wasn't 'selling' rabbits. I most certainly am. *But I'm also selling purebred, fancy rabbits with great temperments. The majority of rabbits in shelters I've seen have been there for a reason...
> *
> ...


I promise I'm not trying to stir anything up. And Peg, I know you said you wanted to lock this thread to avoid a discussion, and I may be making things worse, but I have to comment on this because no one has yet. Shaded Night Rabbitry, the first bolded part reads like you're blaming the bunnies in shelters for being there. There is indeed a reason that bunnies are at shelters, but it is not because anything the rabbits have done- it's completely the fault of their owners. And to say that only a few shelter rabbits are pet worthy? Wow. Just... wow. Oh and incidentally, my two shelter bunnies are doing great and my two breeder bunnies (who came from good breeders!) died from illness. 

Okay, done!


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## TinysMom (Jun 3, 2010)

Well...first of all - this probably should have been discussed in "chat about the forum" - but PLEASE do not start a discussion about this in there at this time. Trust me - this is already under discussion already by the moderators.

There are some things though that I think you all should know.

First of all - this has been discussed before by the admins/sr mods - more than once. So it isn't like this is a "new" topic to us. We have thought about it.

I'm one of the ones against it. (There are others - it isn't just me). Why am I against it?

I remember a situation a few years ago where someone was selling homemade toys to support a rescue...only thing was - some people who paid for them didn't get them. It was just a few folks..but enough to cause some bad feelings on the forum.

I remember another situation where someone was making clay items to benefit a rescue. Someone ordered several...and never paid up...even though they got made.

But here is a final situation. I'm going to use Shaded Night as an example since she raises ND - which sometimes can have teeth issues.

Let's say she advertises her bunnies and someone from the forum buys one from her. Now when she sells it - the rabbit is free from teeth problems. In fact, genetically - the rabbit is fine. But while the new owner is out all day - the rabbit gets bored - chews on his cage bars - and after 3 weeks or so - damages his teeth and stops eating as much. The owner takes the rabbit to the vet (cause we encouraged them to) - only to find out the teeth are messed up.

Now they're going to point to Shaded Night...and if it gets on the forum (which it would most likely) - then we wind up with another bad situation.

This next part is NOT directed at any one person or group of persons. Ok? 

Sometimes I get so sick and tired of people saying, "We should add this to the forum" or "We need to add that feature". 

Why do I hate that? Because it seems like everyone feels like this forum is "free" to run. Guess what folks? It ain't. Our funds are NOT unlimited - and I bet that maybe 10-20 people pay the majority of the running of this forum. Possibly more - I'll up it to 40 just to be safe.

This forum needs a lot of "behind the scenes" work - like updates - or to move to a different forum type where we have more updates available. Do we have the money?

NO. 

So yeah...I get frustrated at the "let's just add one more section". 

Anyway - to my final point. One way we worked around this in the past is we have a member that sells something other than bunnies. She paid to become an RO Friend - and in her signature line she links to her business. It works for her - and we're comfortable with it.

I am going to talk to Pipp and others about an idea I do have. I'm going to ask if we can have a sticky in the rabbitry area where each of us can post our website (once) along with the breeds we breed. This way we're not selling particular animals....just pointing to our website.

Also - I will ask if she will allow breeders to put their website in their signature lines if they join as an RO Friend. 

I'll get back to everyone.


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## TinysMom (Jun 3, 2010)

Putting on Sr. Mod flack jacket here - and flame retardant gear.

*I want the whole rescue vs. breeder discussion to stop. Now. 

I will leave this thread open for discussion on sales/advertising - but that is all.

I'm sorry - I know I seem mean. But the whole breeder vs. rescue thing is just too much for me to moderate right now. I breed rabbits and I have a rescued rabbit. I see the reason for both.

Thanks to everyone for honoring my request. 

I am about to start a new thread about advertising your rabbitry (not about on this forum). 
*


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## Violet Crumble (Jun 3, 2010)

Just joined the forum and I see this. lol. Not sure what to think but I give kudos the to mods and admin for allowing such good conversation.

I think Dixon has something here and is realistic in his/her views. Seems bright.

I suppose you could mince words forever but as one who has volunteered in a large metropolitan shelter for a few years and worked with major rescues in my area, been able to learn how it works, you'd be surprised how much a REPUTABLE breeder "selling" and a rescue adopting work very much the same way.

Someone gets paid. Rescues get free rabbits to sell (adopt) that are often already vet checked, and altered (or are altered afterwards for $50 by a charitable vet or agency) and they are sold for $75+ often the same day they are picked up for free from the shelter if they are already altered. Clearly, they made a $25 profit.

REPUTABLE breeders feed, play with, pay vet bills for two animals for 7 months to a year before they see offspring. Add on caring for the litter and parents for another 2 months and that is a LOT of money spent. Yet, a show exhibitor will often only charge $20 for a "pet" rabbit and as little as $60 for a rabbit that can win it's class in a national competition (like Westminster but for rabbits). I know both rescuers, pet owners, and show exhibitors and I have yet to meet any show exhibitor/breeder who made a dime off selling their rabbits. Most serious breeders spend thousands of $$ raising and showing their rabbits. No profit there - only losses (financially). Their only profit is bragging rights.

So, tit for tat. 

And, yes, having temper tested, rehabbed, rescued, and worked tirelessly with literally tons of shelter rabbits, very few are good pet prospects. Doing adoption screenings I can say that even fewer potential adopters are good pet rabbit owner prospects.

eta: my apologies. I did not realize this topic was closed.


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## whaleyk98 (Jun 3, 2010)

TinysMom:* Also - I will ask if she will allow breeders to put their website in their signature lines if they join as an RO Friend*



This I think is a good idea. =)


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Jun 3, 2010)

This is just another thought, but breeders work under a reputation more than any other "job" out there. I understand the frustration with the bunny toys and clay figures and such that you mentioned, Tinysmom. But once a breeder messes up, word gets out like wildfire!

So there tends to be not as much issue with that. Although there is still room for some, but most breeders would not consider working with another breeder until that person has a reputation one way or the other.

I don't mean this to be an argument for or against anything, but just saying! Reputations run high in these here parts.


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## mistyjr (Jun 3, 2010)

So, Is this the same thing about, When you have a post on something about cages, And somebody post in your tread of selling cages/ect. Is this the same thing??


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## Lishka (Jun 3, 2010)

I have been on other sites where both are allowed, and there are never problems. NO ONE advertises, or takes money before meeting to get the rabbits. If they do, it's people who know one another, and there is never any time that mods have to get involved. They simply operate the site.. they are not in charge of the conduct of others. 

Another thing to consider is that on another site I visit, they allow posting of used items for a good price, which may be beneficial to the bunnies.

Just one thing I HAVE TO SAY!! Good Breeders are always willing to take back rabbits just like most rescues. I always do.. and good breeders have also rescued bunnies before... I have!


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## dixonsrabbitry1 (Jun 3, 2010)

Thats really terrible that people made the stuff, and they didn't follow through with it. As an ebay seller, I know what you mean. I have had people purchase stuff that have never paid. Yet I still piad the rescue money out of my own pocket. I have heard of sellers doin the same thing. Now I know thats not rabbits, bUt i do know of someone that rip someone off by selling her stuff over the internet. thankfully we all forced her to get out of rabbits. I mean these people were pretty shadey.

As for selling rabbits over the net, everything I have done has been local pickups in a neutral place. So far no problems. i do see your point about that though. that can also happen with anyone, including the bunnies in the rescues. 

I am sorry you guys have had bad experiences with that, and they ruined it for everyone else. 

I think the website suggestion is a good idea.


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## TinysMom (Jun 3, 2010)

*Lishka wrote: *


> *I have been on other sites where both are allowed, and there are never problems.* NO ONE advertises, or takes money before meeting to get the rabbits. If they do, it's people who know one another, and there is never any time that mods have to get involved. They simply operate the site.. they are not in charge of the conduct of others.
> 
> Another thing to consider is that on another site I visit, they allow posting of used items for a good price, which may be beneficial to the bunnies.
> 
> Just one thing I HAVE TO SAY!! Good Breeders are always willing to take back rabbits just like most rescues. I always do.. and good breeders have also rescued bunnies before... I have!



That's great. 

I'm sure I can hear lots of stories about this being true - and that's fine that their forum is that way.

But this site is run by different people and once again - we may have older software. 

Like I said before - a lot of people want a lot of things - and they want it for free. It would be nice if all the things in life were free - but as it is - someone on here has to pay the bills for the site. 

Once again - I will take this discussion up with Pipp and the moderators.


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## mistyjr (Jun 3, 2010)

I agree with that.. With a website!


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## dixonsrabbitry1 (Jun 3, 2010)

Well some of us don't realize you have to pay for the website. I didn't realize you guys did until now. 

Hmm. I wonder if you could set up something where you could pay to sell, and the buyers and sellers get feedback. that way they have to follow through with it. Not rabbits, but like cages, and stuff. Then you could always boot the ones that aren't following the rules.


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## dixonsrabbitry1 (Jun 3, 2010)

Also, we are just suggesting, not asking.


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## TinysMom (Jun 3, 2010)

*dixonsrabbitry1 wrote: *


> I am sorry you guys have had bad experiences with that, and they ruined it for everyone else.
> 
> I think the website suggestion is a good idea.


I am willing to take up any suggestions with Pipp and the moderators. 

But I think you have to understand something - and this is my personal opinion (which probably stinks).

I'm really discouraged sometimes when I see how often people "want" something from this forum but won't give back to help the forum keep running. Its discouraging because I know we'd love to update the software or change to something - but we don't have the funds for it. (No - I'm not the one who handles the money).

I understand the frustration - for example our Walmart used to have a bulletin board in the pet area where you could post ads. When they redid the store - they removed it. I miss it a lot because I'd love to put my business cards up there.

But I'd rather see us have the money to make some much-needed changes to the forum software to make it more user (and admin) friendly ~ and then add the "nice" stuff that folks would like. 

I hope I'm making some sense - I'm fighting a lousy headache (have been for 2 days now) and may have walking pneumonia - so I don't always express myself well (let alone have cohesive thoughts).


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## dixonsrabbitry1 (Jun 3, 2010)

I think when the magazine rabbits only had it they paid for it didn't they? Like I said I bet most on here don't know the forum on here has to be paid for. I agree if you want something, then give a little back. Next time I get some money I promise I will donate a little to the forum. May not be much though.


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## Erins Rabbits (Jun 3, 2010)

I think a sales forum would be a good idea, but then, I've suggested it before. 

It might be good for some breeders here- but I, personally, would not use it.


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## TinysMom (Jun 3, 2010)

*dixonsrabbitry1 wrote: *


> I think when the magazine rabbits only had it they paid for it didn't they? Like I said I bet most on here don't know the forum on here has to be paid for. I agree if you want something, then give a little back. Next time I get some money I promise I will donate a little to the forum. May not be much though.


I'm sorry - I didn't mean it to sound like I'm trying to guilt people into giving....that was not what I meant.

I have another situation going on in my life which is along the same lines - someone wanting something for free...and its just frustrating sometimes. 

What y'all can do is start a list in this thread of the ideas you'd like me to present to Pipp and the moderators. 

If you want me to check out another forum and how they do things - *pm me a link* (since we don't advertise other forums on here) and I check out to see how they do things.

And once again - I wasn't trying to guilt folks into this - just...very frustrated at this in general with more than one situation....


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## dixonsrabbitry1 (Jun 3, 2010)

No tinys mom you are ok. You weren't doing that at all.  Hope you are feeling well soon.


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Jun 3, 2010)

I didn't realize this forum was paid for. Most that I belong to are free, which makes things a little easier. That may even be something to consider. I know it's a tall request, but if finances are trouble, moving to a free site like invisionfree can free things up (no pun intended) for everyone involved.  They are pretty customizable too!


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## JadeIcing (Jun 4, 2010)

A big part of why we are on a pay site is the amount of bandwidth we use, the massive numbers we have and so on. A large portion of free ones could not handle all we need.


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## countrybuns (Jun 4, 2010)

WHat if Ro were to put a sales forum in the membership areas that require donation. So if you are an RO friend or higher you can advertise but not if you are simply using the free part of the forum.


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## mistyjr (Jun 4, 2010)

This may sound dumb or it may not help on anything.:baghead

I was on a ferret Forum once.. They had for sale items like selling cages, stuff that people would like to have for their pets not just for ferrets, And other pets as well. I liked it because some people are looking for cages,ect. And if people that are close to you that haves stuff for sale that you need.

Like for example, When they had somebody on here selling those hay racks, Or some people got/bought from.


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## Lishka (Jun 4, 2010)

All other forums I have been on are free. Didn't realize you were paying.


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## countrybuns (Jun 4, 2010)

Most forums cost the forum owner money unless they are using a small free forum.


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## Lishka (Jun 4, 2010)

I have been on forums that are huge.... and free. So I will have to disagree with that. I also think making people pay in essence, by donating (be a rabbit friend) to advertise will not happen as there are MANY forums out there that allow it. 

BUT of course the people who are running the forum have the right to decide what they allow on here and what they don't. I will also say that this is not really a rabbit breeding forum. This is much more geared towards people who like and own rabbits. That is totally great. So if that is what the mods want, then we can respect that, and advertise elsewhere.


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## TinysMom (Jun 4, 2010)

*Lishka wrote: *


> *I have been on forums that are huge.... and free*. So I will have to disagree with that. I also think making people pay in essence, by donating (be a rabbit friend) to advertise will not happen as there are MANY forums out there that allow it.
> 
> BUT of course the people who are running the forum have the right to decide what they allow on here and what they don't. I will also say that this is not really a rabbit breeding forum. This is much more geared towards people who like and own rabbits. That is totally great. So if that is what the mods want, then we can respect that, and advertise elsewhere.


Could you find out for me who their server hosts were and what software they used? If so - please pm it to me?

Thanks so much - to my knowledge all forum software usually costs something - and the website hosting isn't usually free either.


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## mistyjr (Jun 4, 2010)

*Lishka wrote: *


> BUT of course the people who are running the forum have the right to decide what they allow on here and what they don't. I will also say that this is not really a rabbit breeding forum. This is much more geared towards people who like and own rabbits. That is totally great. So if that is what the mods want, then we can respect that, and advertise elsewhere.


I have to agree with you,, But when people like my self donates $75.00 to this fourm or less, We should have a say so too. We are helping out the forum too. I dont know how to explain this in writing... Im thinking out it, just dont know to word it out.


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## mistyjr (Jun 4, 2010)

This off topic.

But whoever did the Donated rules, Should change it. I have not gotten anything what they post on their, What you get when you donate your money. Im just saying..

Should have kept my mouth shut.


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## Tessie (Jun 4, 2010)

I was going to ask one person if some of the money they made on selling idems went to rescuses.

I agree with making a percentage goto rescues and naming that rescue.


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## JadeIcing (Jun 4, 2010)

*mistyjr wrote: *


> This off topic.
> 
> But whoever did the Donated rules, Should change it. I have not gotten anything what they post on their, What you get when you donate your money. Im just saying..
> 
> Should have kept my mouth shut.




You have a pm in regards to this.


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## mistyjr (Jun 4, 2010)

When you read the donate thread and tells you everything that you are supposed to be getting if you donate the money.. This is all Im saying.


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## JadeIcing (Jun 4, 2010)

*mistyjr wrote: *


> When you read the donate thread and tells you everything that you are supposed to be getting if you donate the money.. This is all Im saying.


You have a large portion of that already the rest of is being worked on.


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## mistyjr (Jun 4, 2010)

Yes, I have gotten your PM!! Thanks


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Jun 4, 2010)

*Tessie wrote: *


> I was going to ask one person if some of the money they made on selling idems went to rescuses.
> 
> I agree with making a percentage goto rescues and naming that rescue.


Ok, thought I had this down, but maybe I'm just not understanding...

Why does it matter where the money from sales goes, if not to the forum?

I thought the problem was that people would be selling things through a paid forum, but not helping to pay for the forum which is giving them advertising. In this case, I would understand that since this is a paid forum, maybe the forum would ask for a % donation on all sales through it or something. But if the money isn't going back into the forum, I'm not realizing where rescues come in. The money rescues make from adoption fees helps them pay for their establishment and current bunnies, just like the money breeders make help them pay for their establishment and current bunnies. Rescues aren't giving me a portion of all their adoption fees, so I wouldn't want a portion of all my adoption fees going to a rescue by default.

I'm not against donating, it just seems like something that should be a personal gift. I _would_ understand that the forum would get a portion of all sales though.


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## BethM (Jun 4, 2010)

It looks like there is some confusion on the term "paid" forum. 

Rabbits Online is free to use. People can choose to make a donation, or to pay a membership fee, which brings special perks for a specified time. However, like ALL websites, the hosting software, server space, bandwith, etc., costs money. 
ALL the "free" forums you are on still have to pay for some or all of this, somehow. Many free sites like Facebook or Craigs List cover their operating costs with ad revenue, keeping the sites free for users. From what I understand, the membership fees do not cover the entire costs to run RO. The rest comes from someone's pocket. 

The Admin and Mods do a wonderful job at listening to people's requests, but ultimately, the people who pay the bills do (and should) have final say. Additionally, the software has limitations. I really want native iPhone support, but right now the software does not support it. (I am hopeful that will happen someday, but until then, I accept that it's not possible at this time.). The important thing is that my request was heard and considered, many websites don't take user suggestions into account at all.

Anyway, end of rant.


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## Lishka (Jun 4, 2010)

My website is 100% free... I have a forum of my own that is 100% FREE!! 100%!! I pay nothing.. And it is a good size forum. NO I am not trying to promote my forum here. My best friend is a Computer software engineer. So you are wrong. Not ALL websites and forums cost. He showed me lots of free, good sites. And no.. he is not sponsoring one for me.

I agree totally that they who pay should say!! However I think it is quite silly for individuals to say things that are untrue.

Also, I do NOT donate my sales money to rescues. I rescue buns myself, care for them, and rehome them FREE! I also help with rescues in my area (cat, reptile, and small animal.)


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## countrybuns (Jun 4, 2010)

Is your friend hosting your forum on their server?


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## BethM (Jun 4, 2010)

Lishka wrote:


> My website is 100% free... I have a forum of my own that is 100% FREE!! 100%!! I pay nothing.. And it is a good size forum. NO I am not trying to promote my forum here. My best friend is a Computer software engineer. So you are wrong. Not ALL websites and forums cost. He showed me lots of free, good sites. And no.. he is not sponsoring one for me.
> 
> I agree totally that they who pay should say!! However I think it is quite silly for individuals to say things that are untrue.



What software does your forum use? Did your friend write it? If so, this was generous of him to donate it to you. Does he donate his time to everyone? 

There is also a server somewhere hosting your site. Someone paid for that, at some point in time. If the server goes down, someone will have to pay for repairs. Someone is also paying for the electricity to keep it running, I doubt the electric company is donating the power. Same with bandwidth, someone is paying for that. Just because YOU are not paying anything, does not mean your forum is completely free. It just happens that you have a connection to someone, so it is free to you.

My husband donated the hosting fee and does the maintenance for a website for the rescue I volunteer with. That does not make it free, it means someone was generous with their time and money so THEY don't have to pay for it.


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## countrybuns (Jun 4, 2010)

*BethM wrote: *


> Lishka wrote:
> 
> 
> > My website is 100% free... I have a forum of my own that is 100% FREE!! 100%!! I pay nothing.. And it is a good size forum. NO I am not trying to promote my forum here. My best friend is a Computer software engineer. So you are wrong. Not ALL websites and forums cost. He showed me lots of free, good sites. And no.. he is not sponsoring one for me.
> ...


Well said


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## Lishka (Jun 4, 2010)

It is a free website. I set it up myself. I pay nothing.. the people on it pay nothing. Have you heard of the free sites.. like Freewebs, Forumotion, Invision. There are free sites out there. Electric is paid anyway. LOL.. And the point here was not that someone is paying.. somewhere... the point was that the mods here pay for this site. There are sites out there that they could run free!!

No one was arguing that someone somewhere was generous with thier time and money.. but consider tat most free sites advertise... so someone else somewhere who is spending money to support the site, is also making money. But that wasn't really the argument anyway.


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## Pipp (Jun 5, 2010)

Weâre not going to fight. It wonât do a thing for the rabbits. I apologized to DixonsRabbitry and took a reference to her out in the Rescue Me section, but the trigger was her continued references to the old and unwinable argument about who makes money in the rescue vs. breeder war. 

Iâm pointing it out because itâs important to know where the rules got off track. We are asking that everyone be respectful and refrain from any discussion that promotes these arguments. 

We do not allow PETA/Rescue rhetoric directed at breeders, its only fair that breeders rhetoric isn't directed at rescue. 

State your case in terms of the needs of the Rabbitry, not the policies of Rescue Me or our Administration and software.

A simple request / queryabout allowing sales, trades, transport and anything else would have sufficed. 

We don't outlaw chat involving rabbit sales, Janine had no problem arranging sales in her Chin thread. Breeders have asked for and received to permission to post rehomes in the Rescue Me section. 

We provide a cross section of great information. We appreciate contributions from the experienced and welcome the inexperienced. We are not judgmental. 

We are a fair forum. 

There were some good suggestions made, thank you. There is no blanket policy that would prevent most of that from being discussed and implemented. Itâs all just time and logistics. Nobody bothered to wait for those answers before jumping into a combative mess. 

We are health and welfare-based, our immediate priorities are the Infirmary, health and behavior research, and the Library. Both Rescue Me and the Rabbitry are short of manpower. Weâre equal opportunity slackers. 

We do have a revamped Breeds section in the works that will allow breeders to showcase their rabbitries, plans include a revamped Rabbitry Resources can probably accommodate transport, trades and other things that benefit from networking. 

Its staffed by volunteers, this isn't anyone's job. It runs at a loss. 

Thank you for understanding


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## Pipp (Jun 5, 2010)

Clearing up misinformationâ¦ 
Julie/Oakridge was not the poster who jumped in after Dixonsrabbitry. Apologies for thinking/posting otherwise, albeit briefly. 
There isn't a policy that says that you can advertise if the money is going to a rescue, rescues can't advertise without permission either. They can't do fundraising of any kind. (Peg was correct when she said that we usually wonât allow commercial advertising unless a rescue is involved and yes that is the norm but not a rule). 
The definition of advertising in this case was selling t-shirts. It turned into advertising rabbits for sale and also brought up rehoming/rescue. These are three entirely different issues.
Dixonsrabbitry is not banned. Sheâs in a time-out for continuing to argue in PMs and elsewhere by making negative comments about rescue instead of focusing on what to do to help breeders in the Rabbitry. She is on a tight leash because she is well known as a disruptive breeder in a wide variety of groups and forums.
Please donât buy into the drama. Weâre not at war with anyone.
RO has a long standing policy of promoting breeders over pet stores. People buying from breeders have thought about the decision and they have a far better chance of receiving proper care instructions. 

We canât work on implementing anything if all our time is spent in pointless arguments.


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