# Albon and benebac or nothing?



## Honeysmom (Nov 25, 2009)

Location- South Mississippi

- Description (Breed, color., weight) Mini- Lop? chinchilla gray, 5 lbs

- Age 5yrs

- spayed/neutered? no

- Notes on Fecal and Urinary Output
- are the bunny's poops and pees normal? poops back to normal except some are a littleelongated insteadof round.

- When did they last use their litterbox?A few minutes ago.

- Any unusual behavior? More loveable than usual. Hasn't been as active as she was.

- Medical History -- has s/he been to the vet or been sick before?Just took her to the vet yesterday. She has a medical history of allergies and she has a sludge problem.

- Diet - what does your bunny eat? Timothy Complete pellets and Timothy hay.
- when and what did s/he eat last?Timothy hay mostly with a little bit of Timothy complete pellets.

- movement - any unusual movements?No Is s/he hopping normally? yes

- are there any plants, chocolate or other substances within reach? No 

- has the rabbit been outdoors? No, shes a house rabbit.

My question is about albon and should i use something like Benebac while she is on this or should i not give her the albon at all. Vet prescribed this for 21 days and at 1.25 mls a day.

I've not got a whole lot of time right now so i'll post what i can. I noticed that Honey had backed off of her feed. She had been getting mostly timothy complete pellets because i didn't know any better. I guess my thinking was that it is made from timothy hay so she could have all of it she wants. My fault, now i know better.

Anyways, she backed off of her feed and i started watching her close. Not as active as she was and then i realised she was constipated, maybe stasis, don't know for sure so i started the pumpkin, all hay,Mylicon for infants and gave pedialyte too just in case she needed that. Worked with her all day mondayand all night and her bowels started moving in the early tuesday morning. I could tell she felt alot better. Then she passed something watery and i paniced because i thought it was diarrhea and found a vet. The rabbit vet was off on vacation so i went to a regular vet that hasn't seen a whole lot of rabbits i think.

She thought Honey had been constipated too and that i had took care of that and that maybe the liquid that Honey passed was just from all that i had given her. Honey had pooped some in the carrier so that gave the vet some fresh samples and they seemed normal to her but when she looked at the sample under the scope, she found one coccidia egg. She was saying something about it found in cats so i don't know if she meant that it came from cats or not. We do have an outside cat and somebodys 2 kittens that won't go away. I don't know if maybe i petted those cats and brought it in or tracked it into the house. Don't know how Honey picked this up. 

But the vet prescribed the albon for 21 days. A dosage of 1.25 mls a day. She said that she didn't think i would need anything like benebac but i could use it if i wanted too. From what i've read, i don't know whether to give her the albon or not. Should i give it to her along with some benebac or should i try and let her system beat it? What do you think?

Oh and thanks to the people in this forum, i knew about pumpkin but not about the mylicon and pedialyte and other things. You've been so helpful by the answers i have found in this forum.


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## tonyshuman (Nov 25, 2009)

I don't think Albon can have a lot of bad side effects, and I think it's better safe than sorry. A few doses of Bene-Bac may be very helpful though, since she was having some GI issues before. Although Albon is an antibiotic, I don't think you have to dose it with Bene-Bac every day like you do with other antibiotics.


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## Maureen Las (Nov 25, 2009)

it sounds like your rabbit has 2 issues going on 
First of all..possible stasis and 2nd possible coccidia. 

Since Albon is an antibiotic that is often used for parasites like coccidia i would give the benebac at a different time of day that you give the Albon...maybe give the Albon in the AM and the benebac at night. 

But you also need to treat for stasis so you want to give plenty of hay and you can also try wet greens if your rabbit has had them before and this isn't the first time. 
Push hay , cut back on pellets ..even too much timothy pellets is not good 

try to keep him hydrated possibly with pedialyte. hydration is the key to overcoming stasis. ; you can also try some cannned pure pumpkin without seasoning (remember no seasoning for pie)

Giving just the pellets is probably the reason that he was not pooping and the liquid stool is??
Coccidia is not that easy to detect in one stool sample so seeing one egg may be an indicator to treat 
let us know what is going on 

I believe that there are better drugs to use for it but they are hard to get and expensive . i think Randy uses Ponazuril but I would hve to doublecheck . This is a drug primarily used in the equine community . 

if your bun develop loose poops, mucous poops, diarrhea then the protocol will shiftif the problem becomes more serious. 
let us know


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## Honeysmom (Nov 25, 2009)

Thanks Tonyshuman and Angielove for your replies.

Honeybunny seems even better now. Her poops are looking more normal. She's eating hay like crazy. She keeps looking for her timothy pellets so i gave her maybe 20 pellets. Shes acting normal but i'm not letting my guard down. I haven't started the albon yet because i wanted to see what the responses would be about it since this vet isn't really a bunny vet i think. 

21 days of albon just seemed like an awful lot of days to have her on it to me and i don't know anything about bene-bac or albon. How much bene-bac should i give her in a dosage?

Oh and i forgot to say in my last post that Honey is female. Sorry.


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## Maureen Las (Nov 25, 2009)

Albon is in the drug dose calculator 

just scroll down and you will find it under antparasitics. 

http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/rx/drugcalc.html


They say 9 days however they don't specify which parasite they are treating


I believe the longer treatment is because of the lifecycle of coccidia ..
Ican look into this later butI think that 21 days is safe. 
if benebac is in the little tubesI give almost 1 little tube ; if it is the powderI take small amount maybe 1/2 tsp and try to mix it into something.


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## Maureen Las (Nov 25, 2009)

I guess that ponozuril can be ordered on-line but you would have ahuge amount 



http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/Coccidia-treatment.htm


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## Maureen Las (Nov 25, 2009)

too bad that you cannot get Ponazuril as it appears that Dana Krempels uses it also; 

I don't know how to dose it but Randy would.

I would start the Albon and we will get the answers fornumber of days in the interim period ; 


http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/Treating-bunny-coccidia.htm


hereare the library articles on coccidia but I don't think they is really current.


http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=39592&forum_id=10


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## Honeysmom (Nov 25, 2009)

Alright, i'll try the albon and benebac. Thanks so much eveyone for your input on this. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## ra7751 (Nov 25, 2009)

Albon is an antibiotic in the Sulfanomide family. It is very old school but it's another of those treatments that has unfortunatelypassed from dog/cat use into rabbit medicine. Is used a lot in dogs and cats. Sulfanomides have been linked to a serious GI condition in rabbits called Tyzzer's Disease. In reality, Albon does not seem all that effective against coccidia....from our non-scientific observations. And I just don't understand all of this for a single coccidia....that is natural and no big deal. The watery stuff was most likely mucus from the body trying to protect itself from irritation from bacteria that grows in GI events like stasis. That generally indicates a bacterial imbalance in which there is an overgrowth of harmful bacteria....usually Clostridium. This condition will many times follow stasis/ileus and is known by many names. Our response to this condition is supplemental fluids, hay and a drug known as Metronidazole. We have recently had huge successes in using BioSponge to bind and filter enterotoxins from the Clostridium. I suspect this line of treatment is due basically to inexperience of the vet....no flaming intended as most vets have precious little experience in these situations.

The best treatment for coccidia is the rabbit's own immune system. Do everything you can to support it. If I were to use drugs against coccidia, and from the information presented here I would not, it would be Ponazuril either alone or in combination with Panacur. Depending on your area, some of the equine vets may have some Ponazuril or the high end dog/cat clinics should have some as the elite vets have already discovered the benefits of Ponazuril. While a single syringe is very expensive, individual dosing would be quite reasonable.

A single "fried egg" should not be a concern.....your rabbit's problem is that the gut is not stable. Get to basics.....low protein (very limited pellets) and high fiber (unlimited hays).

Randy


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## Maureen Las (Nov 26, 2009)

*ra7751 wrote: *


> Albon is an antibiotic in the Sulfanomide family. It is very old school but it's another of those treatments that has unfortunatelypassed from dog/cat use into rabbit medicine. Is used a lot in dogs and cats. Sulfanomides have been linked to a serious GI condition in rabbits called Tyzzer's Disease. In reality, Albon does not seem all that effective against coccidia....from our non-scientific observations. And I just don't understand all of this for a single coccidia....that is natural and no big deal. The watery stuff was most likely mucus from the body trying to protect itself from irritation from bacteria that grows in GI events like stasis. That generally indicates a bacterial imbalance in which there is an overgrowth of harmful bacteria....usually Clostridium. This condition will many times follow stasis/ileus and is known by many names. Our response to this condition is supplemental fluids, hay and a drug known as Metronidazole. We have recently had huge successes in using BioSponge to bind and filter enterotoxins from the Clostridium. I suspect this line of treatment is due basically to inexperience of the vet....no flaming intended as most vets have precious little experience in these situations.
> 
> The best treatment for coccidia is the rabbit's own immune system. Do everything you can to support it. If I were to use drugs against coccidia, and from the information presented here I would not, it would be Ponazuril either alone or in combination with Panacur. Depending on your area, some of the equine vets may have some Ponazuril or the high end dog/cat clinics should have some as the elite vets have already discovered the benefits of Ponazuril. While a single syringe is very expensive, individual dosing would be quite reasonable.
> 
> ...



Well we finally got some good solid imput....

Thank you Randy (as always)

Honeysmom no need to give the Albon.


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## Honeysmom (Nov 27, 2009)

Thanks so much. Something has been telling me not to start the albon just yet and so i've waited about giving it to her. Everything seems to be back to normal except that she seems more loveable and i'm not complaining about that. I hope she stays that way.

I had to take a trip, so i brought her with me. I was afraid of bringing her on the trip but i didn't feel comfortable leaving her with that vet. Up here there are several rabbit vets so they will be there if i need them.

She did wonderful coming up here with me. She keeps looking for her pellets though and i a gave her a couple. I'll start them back soon but she won't be getting them at free access day and night. It will be mainly hay for her for now on.


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