# Need to put some weight on some very thin gals



## LilyPatchFarm (Apr 7, 2013)

'Ello!

I took in two E-lop gals this last weekend and I'm concerned about them... The fawn girl (Daisy) is all pointy bones under her coat and the chinchilla (Clover) is a little fuller but has a rough coat (with bad urine staining I might add!)

I took them to my vet and they were wormed. The vet also echoed that they needed to put on some weight, especially the fawn girl. Otherwise, thankfully, they both look healthy....other then theres a chance they are both pregnant.

So the vet suggested that I NOT add too many veggies into their diet since we dont know what they were eating. She said slow and steady with veggies and suggested picking one, like kale, and offering just a handful or so a day, along with all the fresh water, all the fresh timothy (and some alfalfa hay) they can eat, and all the pellets they can eat. Then slowly increase the veggies and begin offering variety.

What I was not prepared for is the VORACITY these two attack food. I have never seen anything like it. When I come up to their cages they start pawing at the doors and leaping around and grunting. When I open the cage they immediatly start nudging my hands and snuffling around for food. I feed them three times a day to make sure they are eating fresh food and they arent really gorging themselves. Even so....

Every day, they are each on average, putting away:

*a double handful (about 1/4 a flake) of good, green timothy hay + sprinkling of alfalfa hay in the morning

*2+ Cups of Manna Pro pellets (1 cup in the afternoon mixed with hay and 
1 cup in the evening mixed with hay)

*2 handfuls of kale (one in the morning, one in the evening)

*64-96 OZ of water

...AND all the grass they can stuff in their faces when they are out in the play pen.

I'm beginning to think that my vet may have had the wrong idea about free feeding them! But still, they flip out when I bring them food- to the point that they are desperatly searching their cages for the food when I put it in (I dont use bowls because I am afraid they will make themselves sick so I sprinkle the pellets in their hay) and I sometimes have to hold them still to calm them, then show them the food.

Should I be doing something different?


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## JBun (Apr 7, 2013)

Are you feeding unlimited timothy hay? They should be getting unlimited timothy, especially with the weight problems. Veggies are good, but alfalfa hay and pellets are going to help with weight gain more than anything. The extra protein will help them put weight back on. With alfalfa hay you need to gradually increase amounts so that it doesn't cause digestive upset. But if there are bladder sludge problems then alfalfa shouldn't be used. Also gradually increasing the pellet amount will help too. You don't want to overdo it with pellets though as the sugars and carbs can cause digestive problems for some rabbits. The general recommended amount is about an ounce of pellets for every lb of body weight, but it varies some depending on the individual rabbit. So try gradually increasing the pellet and alfalfa amount, and feed unlimited timothy. 

You'll want to keep an eye on how the Manna Pro is working for your rabbits. I've read of other people having problems with it, and their rabbits had lost weight on the food. Just something to be aware of if your rabbits still don't put on weight after increasing the amount.


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## majorv (Apr 7, 2013)

Did the vet say how much they weigh? An English Lop doe should weigh 10+ pounds. If they weren't fed enough for any length of time then they may be having a hard time controlling themselves with food. You don't want them to eat too fast but by the same token, because they are underweight you don't want to make them work too hard for it either. Maybe you could give them half the pellets in a bowl and the other half mixed in some hay? Just an idea. You could also give them a sprinkling of rolled oats and/or black oil sunflower seeds a couple times/week. Both will help add weight and also help improve their condition.


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## LilyPatchFarm (Apr 7, 2013)

I would say they get close to unlimitted hay- I go through a dense flake (horse sized flake) of hay a day between the two of them- I give them each 1/4 a flake in the morning and sprinkle some kale and alfalfa into the timothy. When they have eaten all of that (usually around lunch time) I give them another big handful of timothy and mix a cup of pellets into it. I do the same thing at bed time- a big handful of timothy and mix a cup of pellets and kale into it. 

How much is too much? The vet just suggested I keep their bowls full all the time but I am worried thats going to cause problems. It would help if I had their exact weights handy :/


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## LilyPatchFarm (Apr 7, 2013)

I think that Daisy is probably about 8-9 lbs and Clover about 10. They are young adult E-lops, each around a year old. The vet classified them as a 2 on the body conditioning chart which is thin but not emaciated. Daisy is worse then Clover though. They dont visibly look bad but as soon as you touch Daisy it almost feels like just bones under a rolling thick coat. 

Originally it seems that they were bred by a good breeder, however they seem to have met a questionable fate before they came to me. I dont know anything about them since they were sold as babies until they ended up in a chicken cage at a livestock show and I just happened to spot them.


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## LilyPatchFarm (Apr 7, 2013)

What are some better choices for pellets? I live somewhat out in the boonies and the only stores available to me within a 1 hour drive are tractor supply and southern states. From what I had researched I thought Manna Pro was the best option! Is there a better one?


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## LilyPatchFarm (Apr 7, 2013)

Here they are. I actually wasnt trying to pose them or anything, but if you place them on a table they automatically freeze, put their head down, and let you mess with them. They are both SUPER friendly and sweet.


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## ladysown (Apr 7, 2013)

putting weight on rabbits.

one of the easiest ways to do so (and to do safely) is to add oatmeal to their diet. regular, uncooked kitchen oats.
If they are hungry ALL THE TIME then I'd be giving them hay to nibble on and I'd keep pellets in front of them ONCE they put on a bit of weight. You have to be careful not to over feed them as well.

I'd be limiting their grass and greens intake if I wanted them to put on weight. Pellets, hay and oatmeal should really be all they need in order to put on weight quickly and safely. Using a 17-18% protein ration will help with that as well.

1 cup of pellets for each of them is not going to put the weight on them. If they are english lops they need 1 cup EACH. (though I'd be inclined to give them 3/4 c in the a.m. and the 3/4 cup in the p.m.). I really wouldn't go over that at this point.

I've rescued more than one rather thin rabbit and they will act like they are starving for a good long time yet...even if they are no longer starving. You need to be careful not to overfeed them too soon.


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## LilyPatchFarm (Apr 8, 2013)

ladysown said:


> I'd be limiting their grass and greens intake if I wanted them to put on weight. Pellets, hay and oatmeal should really be all they need in order to put on weight quickly and safely. Using a 17-18% protein ration will help with that as well.
> 
> 1 cup of pellets for each of them is not going to put the weight on them. If they are english lops they need 1 cup EACH. (though I'd be inclined to give them 3/4 c in the a.m. and the 3/4 cup in the p.m.). I really wouldn't go over that at this point.


 

They are actually getting 2 cups EACH every day. One in the AM, one in the PM. The feeding schedule I posted in my previous post is what EACH of them get every day. (they are in seperate cages)


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## JBun (Apr 8, 2013)

Manna Pro might be just fine. Lots of people use it successfully. It's just that some people in certain parts of the country were having problems with it, but that would be a feed mill problem, and not because the brand is bad. But it sounds like 1 cup each a day, isn't enough for their weight. If you have a small scale you could try weighing a cup of feed. All feed is going to weigh slightly different, but my rabbit food weighs 7.2 oz for a cup. So if yours is similar to mine, then your girls should be getting at least 1/2-3/4 cup more to share. You don't want to just suddenly increase the amount though. Gradually increase the amount each day, over about 2 weeks time, and keep an eye on their poops to make sure they stay normal, and don't get really tiny or soft. And if you can spread the feedings out to 3 or 4 feedings, that will help them not gorge on pellets all at once. But keep the grass hay filled, so that they always have that to snack on.

They are both gorgeous. I love elops and find them so interesting. They do look a little skinny though, especially the gray one. Every elop I've ever seen, has a nice big dewlap. But I'm sure that they'll start packing on the weight as you up their pellets and alfalfa.


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## LilyPatchFarm (Apr 8, 2013)

JBun said:


> Manna Pro might be just fine. Lots of people use it successfully. It's just that some people in certain parts of the country were having problems with it, but that would be a feed mill problem, and not because the brand is bad. But it sounds like 1 cup each a day, isn't enough for their weight. If you have a small scale you could try weighing a cup of feed. All feed is going to weigh slightly different, but my rabbit food weighs 7.2 oz for a cup. So if yours is similar to mine, then your girls should be getting at least 1/2-3/4 cup more to share. You don't want to just suddenly increase the amount though. Gradually increase the amount each day, over about a weeks time, and keep an eye on their poops to make sure they stay normal, and don't get really tiny or soft.
> 
> They are both gorgeous. I love elops and find them so interesting. They do look a little skinny though, especially the gray one. Every elop I've ever seen, has a nice big dewlap. But I'm sure that they'll start packing on the weight as you up their pellets and alfalfa.


 

Im sorry lol im confused! I dont know where it got mixed in that they get 1 cup a day but its not the case- they EACH get 2 cups a day. EACH getting 1 cup in the afternoon and 1 cup at night.

This is their feeding schedule. This is what they EACH get in their OWN cage:

* a double handful (about 1/4 a flake) of good, green timothy hay + sprinkling of alfalfa hay in the morning. (No pellets in the AM because I want to make sure they eat lots of hay)

* 2+ Cups of Manna Pro pellets (1 cup in the afternoon mixed with a big handful of hay and 1 cup in the evening mixed with more hay)

* 2 handfuls of kale (one in the morning, one in the evening)

* 64-96 OZ of water


So should I be upping it at 2 cups already?? or is 2 cups each way too much??


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## LilyPatchFarm (Apr 8, 2013)

ladysown said:


> putting weight on rabbits.
> 
> one of the easiest ways to do so (and to do safely) is to add oatmeal to their diet. regular, uncooked kitchen oats.


 

How much oats should I give them?


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## JBun (Apr 8, 2013)

I just noticed that. Wow, well at 2 cups each, they should definitely not be having weight problems. Have you been feeding that amount very long?


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## LilyPatchFarm (Apr 8, 2013)

I have only had them a week, and they were wormed on Monday, so I would say since Teusday they are on the above diet, which is what the vet recommended. I just want to make sure its the best plan to help them gain weight

I have absolutely no clue what they were eating before I got them.


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## JBun (Apr 8, 2013)

Ok, well 2 cups is plenty. I figured more around 1 1/2 cups each, but if they are doing ok on the 2 cups each, and have normal poops, then you can just go with that, but try and keep enough grass hay in with them so they aren't running out. That should help them not be quite as frantic at feeding time. Though my rabbits still get really excited about their pellets, and they always have hay to eat. Man, you must go through a ton of food for only 2 rabbits. I have 10, and I don't go through as much as you are for 2.


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## Nancy McClelland (Apr 8, 2013)

If they don't have bladder sludge issues, you could try giving them alfalfa for a short while. It works well with my elder buns when they get too skinny. Sounds like when we first got Serena. She would devour all hay and any other food--she was very skinny when we first got her and was told she was full grown. Turns out she wasn't any where near full growth--she went from 7 pounds to almost 20 and she's a very big and healthy Checkered Giant. Very happy, healthy and active now. Blows everybody away that sees her.


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## LilyPatchFarm (Apr 8, 2013)

Between the three Elops (Two adults and one baby), two adult mini rexes, one adult mixed breed, one angora and six baby mini rexes I go through about 9 cups of pellets a day plus several flakes of timothy and fresh greens lol. But these two does eat about the same as all my other rabbits combined!


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## The Turtle (Apr 8, 2013)

If they were on hard times when you got them, let them eat almost anything they want, provided they issue good, normal poops.

It's the NOT eating/pooping that's the problem.

Once they get back to good form, then calm them down with orchard grass and mid-protein feed. But if they're needing to catch up, let them eat almost anything. I am not a large-lop specialist, but I do see with that gray that he or she is thin over the hips.

it's always better to work from "too big" than "too thin."


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## Cydutch (Apr 9, 2013)

I have used this on animals for show to get weight on and make the coats better. Add oatmeal and black oil sunflower seeds. Oatmeal gives a extra finish to the muscle and helps them pack weight back on.


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## holtzchick (Apr 9, 2013)

Yes I agree with the oatmeal and also to encourage hay consumption feed oat hay. I had this issue when I found My rabbit, she was so thin that I decided free feeding was best and she gained 1 1/2 lbs within a month and a half of having her. The vets advice was if she doesn't have issues with calcium to fatten her up with alfalfa pellets and hay, she ate so much I remember thinking she had parasites so I had her tested... Turns out she just was starved wherever she came from and she would eat most of her own poop... Now it's been about 9 months and she still nudges my hands out of the way to get her headin the cup when I feed her! She eats a lot and is very high energy!


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