# Jayne and Kaylee



## pbheather (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm new at bunny parenting, so everything is a surprise to me. 

Jayne is the oldest. He's about 5 months old. He is grey, with a white belly and chin. He's affectionate and was pretty flighty up until now. When I got Kaylee, the female, he goes between seeing her through the bars in her cage, to coming to me on my bed, my couch, in my kitchen, the bathroom, wherever I am. He either wants me to pet him, or he circles my feet. Once he circled my head (I was laying down) and was making a sound almost like clucking. And he keeps pounding his back foot on the ground in annoyance. I know he wants to get in Kaylee's cage. I'll open the top to do something, and he will try to get in at all costs. It's hormone driven. I'm getting him fixed this month, so I'm hoping he will mellow down when it comes to Kaylee.

Kaylee is the female. She is almost completely black, with small white patches, and brown around her feet. I've had her only a few days, and I'm thinking she's about 8 weeks. I got her from the same store as Jayne (the only place in the area to get a rabbit), and he was 8 weeks when I got him. I'm hoping to get her fixed during the month when Jayne is still fertile after he has been fixed. Then, I'm hoping to bond them so they can live happily every after. Anyway, she's a little aggressive, but she's mellowed out a little. She does like her forehead rubbed, but she's flighty when she's out of her cage, and freaks out a little when she's in her cage and I reach in. As Jayne is trained to dog potty pads, I am going to train her to those. She has been tearing them up, and going all over. It's almost like she's nesting. I don't know. I'm hoping she'll get the message as soon as Jayne did (he was easy to potty train). 

They seem to be getting along so far, through the bars of their cages. When Jayne is out, he doesn't leave her alone hardly. When Kaylee is out, she pretty much ignores him, but she interacts with him when she's in her cage. I'm hoping they'll get along when they're both fixed, and that they'll bond real well. They seem to be doing well so far, so I think all of this will go well.


----------



## fuzz16 (Feb 3, 2010)

welcome to the rabbit world 

and sounds like you and him are starting to bond, maybe jealousy lol


----------



## pbheather (Feb 3, 2010)

I hope we are starting to bond. I've been waiting for that the entire time I've had him. It's feels like it's been a long road, even though it's not been all that long.


----------



## hartleybun (Feb 3, 2010)

they sound a cute pair of bunnies! good luck with the bonding


----------



## pbheather (Feb 3, 2010)

Here's some pics of my babies:







This is Kaylee.

And this is Jayne


----------



## pbheather (Feb 4, 2010)

I was wondering. Will taking Jayne to get neutered cause Kaylee to reject him, even though they only interact through the bars? I've been thinking about that. On a couple sites I've read that a rabbit may be rejected by their mate after a trip to the vet. Jayne is infatuated with her, and will be so excited when he can be with her when she's outside her cage. If she decides to reject him, he won't recover well.


----------



## Wabbitdad12 (Feb 5, 2010)

Such beautiful bunny's!


----------



## pbheather (Feb 6, 2010)

Thank you, Wabbitdad. I love them dearly. 

Well, I tried to let Jayne see Kaylee outside of her cage. It was on my bed, and I sat near in case something happened. At first, they just sniffed each other, Kaylee kinda ignored Jayne. Then Jayne tried to mount her front, then her back. I had to separate them. Kaylee was kinda skittish after that. I put her back in her cage, and when I tried to feed her, she bit me. Yea, not a good idea on my part. So I've separated their cages for a few days so Kaylee can calm down and relax. I'm taking her to the vet on Monday, so maybe we can see when she can get spayed. It won't be for a while, but I'm hoping it could be done the month when Jayne is neutered, but has to still be separate from her because he still is fertile.


----------



## Myia09 (Feb 6, 2010)

I love Jayne! She is so cute! 
Yeah, not a good idea meeting them before they are fixed. Also the chances of them getting a long better greatly increase when fixed, dominance/territory issues ar usually resolved.


----------



## pocketsizedrhino (Feb 6, 2010)

Ohhh those wittle ears are adorable. <3


----------



## pbheather (Feb 6, 2010)

Today, I tried trimming each bun's nails. I'd never done this, and when I pick either up, blood is being drawn. Jayne was not having it. I tried holding him down, and then I tried wrapping him in a towel. After much scratching and biting, I finally got his nails trimmed. He ran straight to his cage after and flopped down with his back to me. Kaylee didn't fight as much, but she wouldn't stay still. Jayne still isn't real happy with me.


----------



## pbheather (Feb 6, 2010)

Well, Jayne looked just so pitiful circling Kaylee's cage I gave in like the push-over I tend to be. Kaylee didn't really do anything. She just sat there quivering in fear and uncertainty as Jayne mounted her face, then her back. I stopped him before he got too far. He still circles her cage, though. She doesn't seem stressed, but I'm always wondering if letting Jayne circle Kaylee's cage is stressing Kaylee. She kind of just ignores him, does her own thing.


----------



## missyscove (Feb 7, 2010)

They're very cute! Are they named after Firefly/Serenity, or is that just a coincidence?


----------



## pbheather (Feb 7, 2010)

They are named after Firefly characters! Jayne is my favorite character, and Kaylee is just a sweet girl, and both names fit the rabbits.


----------



## pbheather (Feb 10, 2010)

Jayne just started eating carrots last night. He sat and ate one out of my hand. Maybe it's that Kaylee likes carrots. The carrots are keeping her from eating her bedding. And she's started to go in her litter box a little. So, yay! She's a little less aggressive, and I growled back at her when she growled, and she hasn't growled at me since. I did that to Jayne and he hasn't done anything aggressive to me since. Hopefully she'll realize I'm not there to eat her. 

I took Kaylee to the vet on Monday. She shook the entire way up, and I had to leave her at the vet office while I got my allergy shots. I got back to the office for my appointment and took her out, and she clung to me. She didn't want to go on the table for the vet. She's healthy, and will be spayed in early March. Jayne is being neutered in two weeks, so while he's still in that 4 week fertile stage, she will have time to heal. Then, we can do a bunny date! I'm so excited about that.


----------



## pbheather (Feb 10, 2010)

I've noticed that Kaylee's binkies are different from Jayne's binkies. Jayne likes to bink during his marathons, when he's running around really really fast, and does it midair. Kaylee will just be sitting there, and then suddenly bink, or she'll twirl to face the opposite direction. It's awesome. They make my day every day. Though, Jayne does get jealous when Kaylee is allowed out. He chews on his cage door. It's so cute.


----------



## pbheather (Feb 11, 2010)

So my parents don't know I have rabbits. I talked to my mom today about rabbits in general, and she gave me this long talk about rabbits smelling and being these horrible creatures. She's allergic to them, but I don't think they stink. I mean, they have the normal animal smell, but they don't specifically stink. She said it was because of their urine, but if the litter boxes are changed frequently, they don't stink. I don't know. My parents don't like animals all that much.


----------



## pbheather (Feb 12, 2010)

I got an exercise pin so Kaylee can be out the same time Jayne is, but they can't directly interact. She keeps pacing in front of him. I wonder if she's trying to get him to mate with her.


----------



## Wabbitdad12 (Feb 13, 2010)

I know what you mean, I've heard the same reasons about rabbits, being smelly etc. My rabbits cages are cleaned every other day, so things stay fresh.

Every rabbit has its own way of show how happy it is. Daisy, my e-lop, will do a speed binky then jump in the air and do a twist.


----------



## pbheather (Feb 13, 2010)

I clean the cages about once a week and yes, there is a slight odor, but all animals have some kind of odor. It's not really until you get to the cages in the corner of the room that you really smell it, and then it's not more than a dog. I clean the litter box and the potty pad (Jayne goes on it lol) and that pretty much takes care of it.


----------



## pbheather (Feb 13, 2010)

Every day I go to check on the cages, make sure their still pretty clean, the hay and water is filled, and if they need pellets, food, etc. When I fill Kaylee's cage with bedding, she immediately digs in it and pushes it all to the edges of the cages, leaving the bottom bare. I don't understand why she does it. Jayne doesn't. Every day, the little bowl her pellets are in is filled with bedding.


----------



## pbheather (Feb 14, 2010)

I've been seeing Jayne grooming Kaylee's face through the bars of the cage. Does this mean their bonding? Does it mean that she's submissive to him since she's laying down? It's a breakthrough. I'm hoping he'll lay down next and let her groom him.

He's doing it of course when he thinks I'm not watching. If he hears me not doing something on my computer he runs away from her, or just stops grooming her.


----------



## pbheather (Feb 22, 2010)

Today, I tried to brush the buns. Jayne doesn't really seem to shed, but I noticed Kaylee had groomed herself and clumps of black hair were all around the back of her cage. Jayne didn't let me pick him up. It might be from when I leave him out all the time and pretty much leave them alone even when I'm sitting on the floor. Kaylee's in her pen, so I don't worry about her getting into trouble or Jayne getting to her.

After chasing Jayne around the pen, I finally caught him in his cage and took him over to the couch. He struggled, and I had to hold him for a little while before putting him on my lap and brushed him. He bit me! I have a little bruise on my arm from it, even though I had a sweatshirt on! 

I got Kaylee real easy, and she struggled a little, but as long as she was in the crook of my arm, she didn't move. I brushed her, and then put her back in her cage. And now Jayne is doing some binkies so I don't think he's too traumatized from the experience.


----------



## pbheather (Feb 25, 2010)

I took Jayne to the vet today to get neutered. I'm kinda scared, cause I've read about rabbits dying because the intubation tube activated some reflex in the throat that causes the heart to stop. But the nurse at the vet assured me they'd just done a rabbit a few weeks ago and he turned out just fine. I don't know how Kaylee will react though, smelling like the vet's office. I think it'll turn out all just fine. I'm picking him up after work, and they're supposed to call me around lunch to give me an update on how the surgery went. My fingers are crossed.


----------



## tonyshuman (Feb 25, 2010)

I'm sure he'll be fine. He looks just like my boyfriend's bunny Benjamin and it sounds like he binkies like him too! Feel free to ask for advice, particularly in the Infirmary, about any post-neuter questions. However, I'm sure he'll be just fine. He's plenty young enough to heal, and the vet sounds reasonably experienced. I have not heard of this intubabtion/heart attack thing, so it sounds like it may be bogus.


----------



## pbheather (Feb 25, 2010)

I got Jayne home. He seems fine, moving around some and investigating his new exercise pen which he will inhabit most of the time now, when he's not in his cage. I noticed, though, that he seemed really hungry. I gave him some kale (he really really likes the stuff) and he gobbled it down. I gave him a carrot and he ate like half already. I gave the vet nurse pellets to give to him after he woke up because he was there all day (I didn't get off work until 5 pm). I don't think they fed him, or gave him water, cause the water bottle isn't any less than what it had been this morning. He hasn't drank any yet, but he's not a big drinker. I don't think he'll go back to that vet. They told me to fast him all night and all morning, when I read that buns need constant food and water to keep their digestive system going. I also read that they need to eat as soon as they wake up. The other vet I've taken Kaylee to in Springfield seemed a little more in tune with rabbits, and told me only not to feed her the morning I bring her in, then to give them food to feed her when she wakes up. I think I'll taking both to that vet from now on.


----------



## tonyshuman (Feb 25, 2010)

It's great that he's eating. I agree that the vet might not be the best choice in the future. Did you get pain meds for Jayne?


----------



## pbheather (Feb 25, 2010)

No, they didn't give any. They just said to keep him pretty confined, I think so he doesn't rip open the sutures. I've been reading articles and blogs and forums and they all say that a bun is better off with meds. I'm not sure. He's already eating and drinking, and he's been moving around some and investigating his new pen, but now he's kinda huddled in the corner. Should I call my vet about the meds?


----------



## pbheather (Feb 25, 2010)

Yea, don't know where that bald spot on his eye came from. Ack, I am very not happy with this vet! I'm gonna call them tomorrow about the meds, but if the bald spot gets worse, I'm gonna talk to them about it. Heck, I may talk to them about it anyways. There is no reason why he should have a bald spot that wasn't there this morning. It's RIDICULOUS!!!!


----------



## tonyshuman (Feb 25, 2010)

There are some bunnies that do ok without pain meds following a neuter, but it's rare. You can also apply ice for 10min at a time, up to 3x a day to help. I think if he's acting upset or not eating tomorrow, you should ask for meds. They often give them a long-lasting anesthetic before they send the bunny home, but that only lasts less than 18 hours.


----------



## pbheather (Feb 26, 2010)

Thank you so much for your help. I know you've been giving tips on my infirmary thread as well. I work from 9 to 5 so idk if the ice pack 3x a day would work, but I am going to confine him to just his cage. I'm gonna try to put the heating pad in his cage, and call the vet in the morning. If they can't do meds, I'll do some more research on human meds and buns. I want him to be healed as soon as possible.


----------



## pbheather (Feb 26, 2010)

I woke up this morning and checked on Jayne. He seems to be feeling better today. Last night, he lay on the heating pad. He is moving around better, but he's a little slow. And he groomed Kaylee, so maybe he's feeling better. It says on the vet website that they give pain meds depending on the extent of the procedure. I may call them anyway and ask why I wasn't given pain meds for him.


----------



## pbheather (Feb 26, 2010)

Just called the vet. They said they don't usually give pain meds to rabbits because of how sensitive they are to the meds. They said as long as he's eating and drinking, he should be fine, but if there's any sudden change, that then they may give some. So, he doesn't act real painful right now, just sore.


----------



## tonyshuman (Feb 26, 2010)

Well, that cements it. The vet knows squat about rabbits. Sorry I don't mean to sound too harsh, but there's no evidence rabbits are more sensitive to pain meds than any other species. They have to take Metacam with food and water in their system, but that's the same for any animal. Even humans aren't supposed to take NSAIDs like metacam and ibuprofen on an empty stomach or when they're dehydrated for the same reasons. They do just fine on the narcotic pain meds, like tramadol and buprenorphine. Of course some bunnies are a bit "zonked out" on these meds due to some psychotropic effects, but that's the same for all animals that take these meds, including people! If your vet won't give you any meds, that's all you can do. I personally would just plain insist on them, at least Metacam (mneloxicam), or find a different vet who'll give them to you.


----------



## pbheather (Feb 26, 2010)

Well, he doesn't really act like he's in pain, and I've been keeping him in his cage. He hasn't eaten his veggies from this morning, though and that worries me some. Usually, he eats them quickly. He seems alert, though, and he was moving around a little. I left the towel in his cage for a little more cushion and he's been laying on it.


----------



## pbheather (Feb 26, 2010)

No, you weren't harsh. It's true. The vet knows nothing about rabbits, and I only took him there because it was convenient. I should have researched more and seen other vets in Springfield, but everyone makes mistakes. I just need to watch him, and make sure he keeps eating and drinking. If not, I'll take him up to the vet I've gone to for my female, who seems a little more in tune with rabbits.


----------



## tonyshuman (Feb 26, 2010)

It's often hard to find a good rabbit vet. You would think, with how selective vet school admissions are, that there wouldn't be such a thing as a "bad vet", but the problem is that veterinary medicine is constantly changing and it is a lot of work to keep up with all the advances for all of the species. Rabbit medicine in particular has changed a lot in the last 20-30 years, as rabbits have moved from the realm of livestock to that of companion pets. We underestimated their intelligence and ability to feel pain mostly because they instinctively hide weakness and pain to avoid predation.

It's more important how long your vet has been out of school and how much they keep up with continuing education than where they went to vet school in the first place. Don't worry, it happens a lot. Rabbits aren't a huge market, and in Springfield you're pretty close to the heart of farm-land, where rabbits aren't kept much as pets but more often as livestock. It isn't as big a business to treat rabbits there so many vets don't see the point of the cost to keep up with current medicine.

This isn't the worst vet I've heard about, either, unfortunately. We trust vets because they have a degree and usually a good reputation; but that can make us unwilling to question their authority. It's not your fault.


----------



## pbheather (Feb 26, 2010)

Well, I've called the vet my female went to. They also said they don't like to give rabbits pain meds after surgery because of how sensitive they are. They said as long as he's eating at least some, and if he's moving around a little better, that he should be fine and is just getting over the anesthesia. They didn't want to prescribe any meds without seeing him, but they did say that if he gets worse by tomorrow, to call them. He does seem better today, even was chewing on the bars of his cage like he usually does if he wants out. Last night, he went to chew, then kinda gave up. It was kinda funny, though. He's been urinating, so he's been drinking. I'm hoping he'll get better within the next few days.


----------



## tonyshuman (Feb 26, 2010)

That's very strange. Are your vets on this list of rabbit-savvy vets compiled by our members, the House Rabbit Society, and other bunny resource websites?

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=11599&forum_id=9


----------



## pbheather (Feb 26, 2010)

No. The nearest one is in Chicago. It's a 6 hour drive. The one in Springfield knows a little bit more than the one here in Jacksonville, but there aren't many rabbit owners in the area. I mean, I couldn't even find a shelter/rescue that wasn't either past St. Louis or past Lincoln. Those are both at least an hour drive. Maybe I was lazy when I got my second one and didn't drive for a shelter, but I don't want to drive to a vet that's 6 hours away.


----------



## pbheather (Feb 26, 2010)

Okay, so there's closer vets, but they're still hours away. I didn't want to take an already stressed bun for a drive like that.


----------



## tonyshuman (Feb 26, 2010)

I understand. Maybe we can help get some info to take to your vet so that they will give her some pain meds for her spay. It would be very difficult going through that without pain meds, as it is a more invasive procedure.


----------



## pbheather (Feb 26, 2010)

Yea. With males, they just cut into the skin a little, right? I don't know if they remove or just block off tubes or what. But females, I know they go through the actual abdomen and cut veins and remove the entire reproductive system. I understand where the vets are coming from, though. If I didn't know much about rabbits and I was a vet, I would want to give the rabbit a medication and not know how it will react. I know not a lot of people have rabbits in this area, so I understand that these vets don't know much about animals they don't see most of the time.


----------



## pbheather (Feb 26, 2010)

Okay, so Jayne has been moving around. I checked his incision site earlier, but saw no blood, and it didn't look like it'd been opened. He stretched, he jumped on top of his cage, exploring under the blanket behind his cage, and he was standing up on his hind legs like he was curious. I'm thinking that if he's in pain, it's not all that much. At least right now. He's back to trying to get Kaylee's attention. He hasn't eaten much more, but the fact he's moving around makes me feel better.


----------



## pbheather (Feb 27, 2010)

Jayne is recovering quite nicely, even now. He is moving around like he had before the surgery, is jumping around, not eating as much, but still eating, and is back to trying to get Kaylee's attention. He doesn't act like he's in pain anymore, but I am going to check the site and he is not going to be happy about that.


----------



## pbheather (Mar 3, 2010)

The other night, I hadn't seen Kaylee eat for a day or so. Then I found out, she'd been eating the bedding in her litter box. And the dog training pads I'd put on the floor to keep the carpet clean from accidents. I tried to catch her, and of course she ran. I don't want to hurt her, of course, so I'm a little hesitant to pick her up in case she struggles really bad. She lashed out, and bit me. Right between two of my fingers, and it's bruised now, so it kinda hurts. Anyway, I did catch her, and I felt her stomach, because I'd read that if a bun doesn't eat, and has a hard stomach, their digestive tract could have stopped moving and they could die soon. Her stomach wasn't hard, but I'm afraid she may be building a blockage. She's been urinating, and producing fecal matter, and she's been eating, so I think she'll be alright. She acts like she normally does, but she doesn't do a lot when I'm in the room, nor does she eat really when I'm in the room. I hope her fright of me will calm down next week after she is spayed. She lunges forward when I put her food down, or when I even touch any of her things. It's like she thinks I'm her rival, but I'm more dominant, so she feels like she has to protect everything around her from me. If I lay down on the floor, she'll come up, slowly, sniffing me, and if I move, she runs away. If I even come towards the two pens, she'll run to the opposite side of the pen. I think she'll calm down after she is spayed and her hormones aren't running rampant.

As a side note, Jayne is doing great. He won't let me touch the area, but I haven't seen any blood, he's moving around great, being himself, eating well, drinking. He's healing up just fine.


----------



## Wabbitdad12 (Mar 7, 2010)

I have some buns that my daughter has termed private eaters. They eat when I leave the room, evidently they like their privacy while dining.

Occasionally one of my rabbits will lunge at me when I go to get her litter box. I tell her stop it or clean your potty box yourself. She backs off and sulks in the corner of her cage.


----------



## pbheather (Mar 15, 2010)

I know I haven't been on a lot lately. Jayne is doing great. I have to let them out of their pens individually, especially Kaylee. She gets jealous now when Jayne is out and she isn't, and vice versa. She even gives me some binkies, and it's so cute! She still does not trust me, and now Jayne has gone kinda wild now. I think it's because I'm not on the floor as much as I should be. She will approach me if I'm not moving, but other than that, she stays away. I got a spinning wheel, and that kinda scares them when it's going. 

Anyways, Kaylee went earlier this morning to the vet in Springfield to be spayed. I got back later, the said after 4, to pick her up. I hope it all goes well, and they'll probably call me when the surgery is over to tell me how she's doing. 

That's about it. I'll post later on how she's doing, and if I have any problems, I will post on the infirmary to get some answers!


----------



## pbheather (Mar 15, 2010)

The vet just called me and said Kaylee had woke up and was doing fine! I can pick her up later this afternoon.


----------



## pbheather (Mar 15, 2010)

Jayne is sitting in Kaylee's pen, in front of her cage, like he's looking for her. He's been eating her hay, or just sitting in front of her cage. And now, I've noticed he's inside her cage. I wonder if he misses her, and is looking for her.


----------



## tonyshuman (Mar 15, 2010)

He really could be missing her. Hope the spay is trouble-free!


----------



## pbheather (Mar 15, 2010)

I hope it all goes well too. I'm going out to pick her up in a little bit. I'm leaving about 3, going to get my shots, then going to get her, so I should have her around 4:30 or 5. The drive is 45 mins and I have to wait in the doc's office 30 mins after the shots, to make sure I don't react to them.


----------



## pbheather (Mar 15, 2010)

Ok, so I picked up Kaylee, and they didn't give me any pain meds for her. I think it's because they aren't real experienced with buns, but they said they don't give pain meds to buns because they're so small. I don't know. I'm gonna watch her throughout the next few days. Right now, she's in the carrier I took her in, with a towel, her food, a few chew things, and her water. If I see she's in pain, I'll do the warm water bottle, or the heating pad. I'm not going to argue with the vet office.

The vet did say to keep her pretty confined for 10 days, and tomorrow, she's going from the carrier, to her cage, then in a few days, she'll be let out into her pen. She is alert, and moving around, but she's still doped up. 

And Jayne investigated the carrier. It's covered in a towel, so he can't see what's inside. I found him on top of the carrier, sniffing around. He was even taking a bath. It was really cute.


----------



## tonyshuman (Mar 15, 2010)

Uhoh. Well, I hope she doesn't feel pain, but honestly it's hard to imagine that she won't. If she starts to show signs of pain, you should call them and try to get a prescription written. Their reason to not give pain meds is totally bogus--you can give them to anything, any size, it just takes a bit of math to calculate the dose. You can give these meds to animals like mice!

Maybe pick up some liquid ibuprofen just in case.


----------



## pbheather (Mar 15, 2010)

Well, they don't see a lot of rabbits. I guess they see a lot of ferrets, cause they have pics of them on their site. I'm gonna do heat for her if she acts like she's in pain, but I'm going to restrict her area of movement, so she won't be able to stretch it or anything to feel a lot of pain. 

At least, though, they did have the water and food I brought in her cage when I picked her up. It's better than the other vet I went to that I think fasted him that day. 

I really don't want to argue with them, so I may just pick up the liquid ibuprofen like you suggested. I'm going to see how she's doing in the morning, and if she's acting really in pain, I'll put a heating pad under a towel for her for when I got to work. That seemed to help with Jayne. And she may be a trooper and heal really nice without a lot of pain. We'll see how it goes when the pain medication they gave her today at the office wears off


----------



## pbheather (Mar 15, 2010)

I just called my bro. He's gonna go to WalMart tomorrow and get me the liquid ibuprofen. I told him to even get liquid children's Tylenol. Can that be given to a bun? I think it can, it just causes blood thinning. I remember reading that somewhere. He said he'd bring something of that kind.


----------



## tonyshuman (Mar 15, 2010)

Not tylenol--ibuprofen only. Tylenol can't be given to bunnies. Liquid children's Motrin is good.


----------



## tonyshuman (Mar 15, 2010)

http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/rx/drugcalc.html

Aspirin and ibuprofen can be given to bunnies, but aspirin causes more blood thinning. Ibuprofen causes blood thinning but to a lesser extent. Some people say not to use ibuprofen after surgery, some say it's fine and good. I say it never hurt me after surgery, and it's better than nothing!

Tylenol isn't safe for bunnies.


----------



## pbheather (Mar 15, 2010)

Well, I didn't get Tylenol, because I read it was toxic. I didn't find children's motrin, but maybe I didn't look. I got Aspirin tablets, 81 mg. The calculator online says to give about 45 mg. But it also says to give 81 mg to relieve pain, but it was talking about arthritis pain. Does that apply to regular pain as well?

I got an oral syringe, but I'm not sure how I'm going to give her this stuff. I'm going to crush the tablet up, and dilute it with water. She doesn't like me touching her as it is. Maybe being in pain will make her not struggle.


----------



## tonyshuman (Mar 15, 2010)

I would go with the smaller dose. Good luck with the pills. Some people will crush it up and mix it with applesauce to get her to take it. Be careful to watch for bleeding.


----------



## pbheather (Mar 15, 2010)

Ok, I will watch for bleeding. But my mom's gone from the shop this week, so I'm down there from 9 am to 5 pm every day this week. I'll keep her confined pretty much for the next few days and watch for any bleeding. 

I'll do half a pill, then. I don't want to give her too much.


----------



## pbheather (Mar 15, 2010)

Ok, so I tested giving the applesauce to my male, who will eat, and he couldn't get enough. It has cinnamon in it, but I don't think the little she'll be getting will hurt her. 

I just found out Wild Harvest pellet mixes is really bad for buns. They've been on it for a few weeks now, and now I have to go find new pellets on Wednesday.


----------



## cheryl (Mar 16, 2010)

Feel better soon Kaylee!...sending lots of gentle nose rubs and comforting vibes


----------



## pbheather (Mar 16, 2010)

I looked in on her this morning before coming to work. I gave her a piece of lettuce, and she nibbled on it a little. She was jumping over her food bowl, and running around a little, so I'm not so sure she's in a lot of pain yet. I tried to get her to take the aspirin applesauce, put the syringe right next to her mouth, and she just looked up at me like I was an idiot. I'm not sure how I'm going to get her to take the applesauce, because she hardly trusts me. My male, on the other hand, would gulp up that applesauce anytime like it was water lol.

I'm thinking I'll put the applesauce in a bowl and let her go at it at her own leisure. I go back for dinner around 5, so I can check on her then. If she doesn't act in pain, I'm not gonna give it to her. But if she does act like it, I'll give her the applesauce. No reason to dope her up for no reason.


----------



## tonyshuman (Mar 16, 2010)

That's not a bad idea. It still might be good to look for children's ibuprofen if she does seem to be in pain, since aspirin will interfere with blood clotting and most doctors say not to use it after surgery. Although it is rare, some bunnies will do ok without meds after a neuter, and occasionally a spay.


----------



## pbheather (Mar 16, 2010)

Jayne did absolutely fine. It was that one night really that he wasn't moving real good, then he was jumping around and running and acting like his own self within a day or two. Kaylee acted fine this morning, but I got to check on her this evening. I'll look tomorrow for the children's motrin/ibuprofen. I have to get them new pellets anyway, might as well look for that stuff.


----------



## pbheather (Mar 16, 2010)

I checked on Kaylee earlier this evening, and when I got off work. She does not seem like she's in pain. At least not yet. She's showing her usual self. She was moving around well, and she's been eating. So far, I think the recovery is going to go well.


----------



## tonyshuman (Mar 16, 2010)

That's good to hear. Fingers crossed!


----------



## pbheather (Mar 17, 2010)

I moved Kaylee to her cage today. It was difficult because I didn't want to hurt her, and I had to lift her from the carrier. I did it, and she didn't seem to be in pain, but she didn't struggle, so maybe that was from pain. 

Noticed when I got back from my knitting group that she had pooped right in front of the door to the cage. Maybe she can't get up into the litter box? Idk. I'm gonna put the poop into the litter box, but I really don't think she can get into the box. Of course, she hasn't really been good about going in her box when she has been out. I think she just doesn't know where to go.


----------



## tonyshuman (Mar 17, 2010)

Is the box really tall? You can re-litter-train her once she's healed from the surgery. It should be a lot easier with all those hormones gone.


----------



## pbheather (Mar 18, 2010)

No, the box isn't real tall, but the towels I put down in her cage didn't allow her to get over the lip I guess. I put more towels down, and she went in the box.


----------



## pbheather (Mar 20, 2010)

I have noticed this evening that Jayne does not seem real interested in Kaylee anymore. Multiple times, she put her head down at the bars of the exercise pen, and the first time, he picked at her, the scratched her. It was really mean from a stand point. She put her head down multiple times for him to groom her and he ignored her. Now she's ignoring him. It's really funny, actually, watching the two of them. I'm wondering if they'll flop with their backs towards eachother, or if he'll groom her when I'm not watching them. They do that a lot.


----------



## pbheather (Mar 20, 2010)

Sorry I haven't mentioned this. Kaylee is absolutely thriving without the pain medications. She is jumping around, and moving great. She even stretched earlier a couple of times. She eating and drinking. I've been really lucky with these two.


----------



## tonyshuman (Mar 20, 2010)

I'm so glad she made it through ok.

Re: the behavior, A lot of times bunnies will reject their mates if they seem "weak"--it's a method to avoid being seen by predators. If your buddy gets slow or sick, they're a bigger target for predators, and if you stay with your buddy while they're sick, you too are a target. So, it may change once she's back to feeling 100%.


----------



## pbheather (Mar 21, 2010)

Ok, that makes sense. And she was also in the carrier the first two days with a towel covering it. He would jump up on it and sit there like he was protecting it. That was really cute. Then, she was in her cage for three days with a blanket over it. It's just today that I've let her come out of her cage. He may just be getting used to her again. She really wants him to like her again, though. It's really sad to see him ignore her, when he was so attached to her before. When she left, he looked for her for hours, looking around her cage, and even jumping inside. He even sat outside, hunched into this little ball. Even when I put him in his pen, he stayed where he could see her cage. It was really really sad. 
She was only gone until that afternoon, but he still missed her.


----------



## Wabbitdad12 (Mar 21, 2010)

I am glad she is feeling much better, I hope the rebonding goes well also.


----------



## pbheather (Mar 23, 2010)

Alright, so bunny bonding has commenced! I have put the two of them on my bed. Either have yet to mount the other one. They just wondered around at first, Jayne trailing, but trying to groom Kayle along the way. They lay for a few moments together, their eyes closed. And they are pretty much close to eachother whenever they move. Except for now, they are wondering in their own directions, but Kaylee is always watching Jayne to make sure where he is. It's awesome!!! I hope this keeps up. It's funny, though. They keep trying to get the other one to groom them. 

Yay!


----------



## tonyshuman (Mar 23, 2010)

LOL I know what you mean! It's the bunny "you groom me first," "no you!" competition.


----------



## pbheather (Mar 24, 2010)

It was really cute. Then it turned into them just touching faces with their eyes closed. That's a good sign, right? I'm glad he didn't mount her. I would have had to get him off, and I'd have some very unhappy buns on my hands. He was very caring, let her do her own thing, and when she came back to him, he'd pay attention to her. But she seemed to want to go wherever he was going, even if she was in the background. 

Since the spay, she hasn't lunged at me in fear when I stick my hand up to her, or when I hold food out to her. She sniffs it, looks at me, and turns away. At least she isn't lunging at me, but she's still not trusting. He's gone back to not trusting me, where before, he'd follow me around and circle me. I guess he's paying all his attention to Kaylee. She's more important lol.


----------



## pbheather (Mar 25, 2010)

Alright, so day two of bonding without the bars. I've been gone most of the night at a knitting group. I came back and let the buns out to keep the bonding up. They were running around for a while, then got into a corner, and Jayne mounted Kaylee on the front. She let him do that for a few seconds, and I was about to separate them, because I've read that he can be damaged if she bites him. She got fed up I guess and ran right through him, and he kinda fell to the side. She just looked at me like 'that was ridiculous, i'm kinda pissed now'. So, I put her back in her own pen, and now Jayne is trying to apologize to her, I guess, cause he won't stop trying to get her attention. I couldn't stop laughing, it was really really funny, but I know it wasn't for her. That's the update.


----------



## pbheather (Mar 30, 2010)

So, when I feed the buns, they pretty much eat away from eachother. Not when it comes to carrots. I give them each their own bunch of carrots, and they go to one, and fight over it!

I tried luring Kaylee to eat from my hand like Jayne does. She started and then Jayne nudged her and she jumped away. She didn't go near my hand again, and then she wouldn't eat from any other carrot but his. It was really really funny.

They're the baby carrots, not the longer ones.


----------



## pbheather (Apr 4, 2010)

Alright. So work has been pretty hectic, so I haven't really had time for the buns this last week or two. I would get back late, let them out for an hour or so, so my thing on my computer, then put them back in their pen when I'm ready to sleep.

Today, they got all evening to run around. I gave them so carrots to munch on. They got down to the very last carrot, and started fighting over it! Kaylee would push Jayne away, grab the carrot, put it into the air like a trophy, and turn away to munch on it. Jayne would push her away and jump a few steps away to eat it. It went on and on until I gave them two more carrots and they had their own to munch on. It was really really funny. It was almost like a game, when they'd hold it up in the air, like they were saying 'I got it, I got it, and you can't have it'.


----------



## tonyshuman (Apr 5, 2010)

LOL my bunnies do that too!


----------



## Wabbitdad12 (Apr 7, 2010)

Sounds really cute, too bad you didn't get a picture of it.


----------

