# My bunny struggle for air and sometimes breathing heavily (RIP)



## the fluffies (Nov 3, 2010)

Last monday night, i found my bunny struggle for air. He breathed heavily. I call a vet who was available at night (1 hour driving from here), and the vet was mentioning about giving an injection to ease breathing. I took my bunny there, but while waiting, i received a bad news (my dad passed away in Johor which is 12hours driving from Penang), so i took my bunny home and it was left unattended (but with water and food) while i was away. 

I just get home this morning to check on him. It didn't struggle for air but was breathing heavily. 

Now (7.00pm in Malaysia) he looks like struggling for air. I'm thinking about taking him t the vet again to get the injection, but i have to leave my bunny again tomorrow morning. The vet has no boarding service for bunny so i have to leave it at home again. I will away for 10 days but i have a friend who will helps to feed my pet while i am away. 

Have any of u experience using Doxapram injection on bunnies??


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## jcottonl02 (Nov 3, 2010)

This doesn't sound good to me at all. I think you need to get him to a rabbit-savvy vet ASAP.

Rabbits cannot lose much of their lung function before they begin to shut down. Humans can lose something like 70% of lung function and still survive. I think rabbits can lose something like 20% before severe problems occur. 
This is why respiratory problems needed to be sorted very quickly.

Your vet should take tests before administering something when they don't even know what it is! X-rays of lungs, perhaps even blood tests etc. Or tests should follow-up this injection, if it's a common-practised thing for rabbits with breathing problems (I don't know).

There are so many things this could be. Is he sneezing? Is he wheezing? Does he have discharge from either his eyes or his nose? Or crusty discharge on his paws (from cleaning his face)? Is he eating and drinking? Is he using his litter tray? Is he lethargic?

I really don't think this is a time to leave your rabbit. If you don't take him to the vets before you go, 10 days later...I really dread to think what you will come back to find. Rabbits can go downhill so so quickly. If you do take him to the vets (which you definately should imo), I still don't think he should be left. He will need looking after and you will need to monitor his condition.

ray:

Jen


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## the fluffies (Nov 3, 2010)

Thread about Shiro i posted since he fell sick a month ago. 

My rabbit stomach feels hard

My megacolon HL bunny is getting more skinny

Benebac & Nutri-cal

A few days ago, I just realised he fell sick after received Frontline treatment at the other vet. But i'm too late now :sigh:

We just get back from the vet (11.17pm in Malaysia). This vet said it could be the side effect of the Frontline that has been using on him last month. 

Shiro was suffocated and sprawled on the floor when the vet trying to weight him. He was given Dexameth injection. The vet also prescribed other medicines - Baytril, Liv52, Nefrotec, Prednisolone and val syrup for 6 days to reverse the side effect of the Frontline. 

The vet said, if Shiro is getting better in 6 days, i can continue giving meds for another week until he doesn't show any sign of sickness again. But if his condition is getting worse, i should prepare myself to say goodbye to Shiro 

:rainbow: :sigh:


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## jcottonl02 (Nov 3, 2010)

That's great you took him to the vets. I really am praying for Shiro. 



Jenray:


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## tonyshuman (Nov 3, 2010)

I am so sorry about your dad.

I will need to do some more research into how to treat a frontline reaction in rabbits, but I do know that steroids (dexamethasone, prednisone) shouldn't be used on rabbits unless absolutely needed. If the reaction to Frontline is allergic in nature, the steroids are called for. However, I thought the reaction to Frontline was not an allergy but instead a nervous system depression problem.


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## tonyshuman (Nov 3, 2010)

http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/chemical/foia/cleared-reviews/reviews/129121/129121-137.pdf

This describes the rabbit reaction to Frontline being seizures and "jaw champing", occurring within 48 hours after treatment.

I would stop the use of steroids because by now the Frontline reactions should be over.

Nefrotec is for urinary function and is not a western medicine product--it is Ayurvedic medicine, so it is hard for me to tell you what impact it is having. I think it is being used to flush the body of the fipronil toxins by increasing urination.

Liv52 is also eastern medicine and is meant to promote liver function, probably to get the liver to remove the fipronil toxin more quickly again.

I think at this point he probably needs hydration and keep up the Baytril. The reason I say to keep the Baytril is because the steroids have probably knocked down his immune system (that is what they do) and the antibiotic will help him if any opportunistic bacteria have taken hold, as is common when a rabbit is given steroids. I would stop the steroids at the very least, and probably also stop the other two medicines, but that's your call.

The VAL syrup is a B vitamin supplement to restore appetite, but it also contains a lot of sugar. Keep an eye on his poo for issues--if it gets bad, stop the syrup.


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## the fluffies (Nov 4, 2010)

What do u guys think? Should i stop the other medicines and just stick to the Baytril only?


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## the fluffies (Nov 5, 2010)

I've stop the other medicines including the Val syrup. I just stick to the Baytril, Critical Care & Benebac. 

Shiro only eat fruits and veggies. The poops were a bit softer yesterday. Haven't seen much poops today, but i think he looks ok. 

Is there anything i can do to help Shiro with his nervous system depression problem?


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## the fluffies (Nov 5, 2010)

Shiro didn't poop today. Saw some mucus comes from his bottom. His appetite is ok. He munch on a lot of cilantro and papaya today. 

:litterempty: 

:nerves1 :nerves1 :nerves1

~nerq~


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## jujub793 (Nov 5, 2010)

poor Shiro he has really had a rough time of it recently!!! I feel bad for you because you just lost your dad and worrying about poor Shiro! My prayers are with you, you have alot going on right now :feelbetter:


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## jujub793 (Nov 5, 2010)

does he eat hay?


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## the fluffies (Nov 5, 2010)

No, he doesn't eat pellets or hays... just papaya and cilantro. But have force-feed him Critical care and Benebac and pineapple juice today. But he still hasn't pass any normal stool yet. Just a few small stool and mucus :sigh:


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## tonyshuman (Nov 5, 2010)

Poor guy. I hope that keeping the system moving though will get this out. I don't think his reaction to fipronil would have lasted this long--he is probably having trouble with his GI system due to stress on his immune system from the steroid treatments.


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## the fluffies (Nov 6, 2010)

I sms the vet in KL. She asked me to find digestive enzyme from pharmacy. Do u think it is necessary?


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## the fluffies (Nov 6, 2010)

I'm giving up...

Today is the last day i can take a look on him. The next early morning i'm going to fly to my hometown in Johor to check on my mom. Mom hasn't eat anything since last Monday (since my dad passed away ) I have to be with her... 

My bf will attent my Shiro. He cant help much. He doesn't know how to pick up a bunny, doesn't know how to force feed a bunny. But i hope he will find a way to continue the Baytril and Benebac to Shiro. The antibiotic was scheduled to last on Wednesday. 

Please pray for my Shiro while i'm away. I'm worry to dead.. Hope everything is ok until i come back on Friday nite... 

Dear God, the only thing I ask of You is to hold him when I'm not around, when I'm much too far away.. ray: ray: ray:


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## tonyshuman (Nov 6, 2010)

I don't think it would help a lot. The Bene-Bac will help more. Most of the digestive enzymes will be destroyed by stomach acid.


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## tristaw. (Nov 7, 2010)

ray:


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## Sweetie (Nov 7, 2010)

So sorry you lost your dad. I know exactly what you are going through.

Please don't give up on your bunny. Is there any way that you can take Shiro with you to check on your mom?

I will be praying for you, Shiro, and your mom. Hope things get better for you, Shiro and your mom.

I will text and email Randy to see if there is any treatment for frontline reactions, because it sounds like Shiro is still having reactions to it.


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## the fluffies (Nov 7, 2010)

I'm going home by flight. I can't drive alone. It is a 10 hours driving. My bf will help me look for my pets when i am away. 

Shiro's appetite looks ok. Except, he only wants to eat leaves and fruits, and nothing more that those. He doesn't want any pellet or hay. I syringe feed him Critical Care 3 times a day and he gets his Benebac every morning. I don't know how Shiro is going to make it when no one around to syringe feed him. :sigh:


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## Maple Front Rabbitry (Nov 7, 2010)

aww  I hope everything works out okay


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## bettanip (Nov 7, 2010)

Sound bad! It is no good if the bunny reject hay and pellet. Giving a fruit and vegetables will only lead to diarrhea sooner. Maybe your bunny got caught by snuffle, a respiratory problem that can be fatal if left untreated.

I'd faced the same problems before, only 3 days she can endure it. And of course it was very pathetic to watch her struggling to get air:bawl:


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## Maureen Las (Nov 7, 2010)

I am really really sorry about your dad 

and I thoroughly realize that you are in a no win situation with Shiro being cared for by someone who is not usedto it. 
If your bf could come on this forum we could attempt to help him care for her but maybe this isnot possible ...

Worst case scenario is that if Shiro is suffering ( not being able to breathe) the best thing may be that your BF have her PTS; you can only do what you can do ..

but if you read this attempt to get your bf on the forum... :feelbetter::hugsquish:


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## the fluffies (Nov 11, 2010)

I rushed back to Penang this morning when my bf called and told me Shiro wasn't eating and not pooping at all since yesterday. Just a few hours before i reached Penang, my bf called to inform that Shiro has started using his litter box. There's a few poops in his litter box and their size are almost a size of marble ball! 

Soon as he pooped, he looked for his pellets and fruits. I fed him with Critical Care soon as i reached home. 

I'm trying to make him drinks more. But my bf said, since i left him to visit my family in Johore, Shiro only drinks if he adds some fruit juice in the water bowl. :nope:

My friend is coming back from UK for Christmas. Since i cant find simethicone in Malaysia (all gas meds in Malaysia contained peroxide), i hope my friend will manages to get it from UK. Any of u from UK?


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## jcottonl02 (Nov 11, 2010)

That's good news. I am soooo glad to hear Shiro is doing better.

Yes I am. I've never had to look for it myself but I'm sure she can find it in a pharmacy or online. You can get anything on the internet.

Jen


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## Maureen Las (Nov 11, 2010)

adding fruit juice to the water is fine ; just not too much 

Shiro seems to be a miracle bunny...


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## the fluffies (Nov 12, 2010)

The 7 days of Baytril prescription doesn't seemed works on Shiro. I talked to my vet about having a culture test, but he sounded like the test is not necessary. 

Shiro only sneeze once in a while, no runny nose, and only some continuous 'grunt-sound' when we try to pick him up. 

But most of the time, he will put his head up to catch air. And most of the time, he will sit with his head up for the whole night. I don't know what to do. The vets here are not couraging at all. :sigh:


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## jcottonl02 (Nov 13, 2010)

Prayers for Shiro

Jen


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## Maureen Las (Nov 14, 2010)

I am sort of concerned that she is having difficulty getting air 
That is not good quality of life for her 

Iknow that you have done everything possible for her under the circumstances. 
:feelbetter:
Maureen


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## the fluffies (Nov 15, 2010)

I have some questions..

1) What is the different between URI and LRI? How to confirm these two problems? Culture test? Stethoscope? X-ray? 

2) What is the most effective treatment for this 2 problems? 

3) As for antibiotics, what is the most effective oral antibiotics to solve this problems? 

I'm going back to Johor tomorrow until Sunday. My bf will look after Shiro. He is really really skinny now. I can feel his ribs 

I will take him to the vet KL as soon as i get home.. But the vet is really concern about Shiro poor mobility. The long journey and long-hour travel might lead Shiro to stress and the vet said stress can make the bacteria to produce more toxins


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## Maureen Las (Nov 15, 2010)

Upper respiratory infection is in the upper part of the respiratory system which would be the throat, nasal passages, runny eyes, and facial areas. bun may have sneezing, and snot and sound congested

Lower respiratory infection is usually a URI that has advanced into the chest and lung area. it is more serious and can lead to pneumonia 
A lower respiratory infection can be diagnosed by a chest x ray ; an upper could bediagnosed by symptoms and physical exam alone but by taking a culture of the discharge one can determine which drug wuld be most helpful ..most vets just start a med and see if it helps 

because of your location I will just list drugs that are commonly used 

Baytril oral may be effective temporarily but symptoms often reoccur because many bacteria have become resistant to baytril ; injectable baytril (given intramauscularly ) is usually more effective than oral .
I wouldn't suggest baytril unless the vets have nothing else. 

Bicillin injectable is a really agreat drug. I gave subqutaneous injections every other daytomy bun Babette's (RIP) and her lower respiratory infection which was out of control and resistant to baytril disappeared 


oral zithromax / azithromycin ( another good drug ) and when given in combination with bicillin injections packs a powerful punch (per Randy) 

Chloramphenical (oral) is another older drug that is fairly powerful but it is important that the person administering the drug does not get it on their skin.I gave chloramphenical in eye meds and just wore gloves when giving it 

Zeniquen oralis in the baytril family but according to Randy it is more efffective .;I have never given this drug 

Iwill just give you the medi-rabbit list of acceptable and not acceptable antibiotics for rabbits and you can print it out and give it the vets.
I just mentioned the drugs that we most recommend on this forum. 

These are the safe drugs 

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm
enrofloxicin is the same as baytril . Zithromax is the same as azithromycin 

These are the dangerous drugs 
http://www.medirabbit.com/Unsafe_medication/dangerous_antibiotics.htm

some drugs are dangrous orally but fine if they are injected. 
Amoxicillin is always dangerous 

I am sorry that you need to leave again but you are doing the best that you can.


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## the fluffies (Nov 15, 2010)

Is it the same method and drugs that has been use to treat abscess?


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## Maureen Las (Nov 15, 2010)

I think that you mean the form of penicllin that your friend used on her rabbit..it contained another preservative..I will try to find that thread; we all had questions about using that penicillin without definitive answers. 

WhenI get time later I will try to find the name of that drug ; just cannot recall it off the top of my head ..something like benacillin?

I do not think that you can get true bicillin in Malayasia
and yes it is the the type of meds to treat abscesses


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## the fluffies (Nov 15, 2010)

Yes, the drug is Benacillin. 
To treat respiratory problem, the dosage and the method/usage of the Benacillin is the same dosage/method to treat abscess? 

To treat abscess, the vet advised to mix certain dosage of Benacillin with saline water, then directly jab it under the skin. Is this the same way to treat respiratory problem that caused by bacteria?


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## Maureen Las (Nov 15, 2010)

http://www.troylab.com.au/products.php?tid=1&iid=21&pid=112



This is it and yes it can be mixed and diluted with sterile saline or lactated ringers solution and given subqutaneously at the same dosage that you would give for abscesses


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## the fluffies (Nov 17, 2010)

I read this article saying that nebulization can helps rabbit to breathe. 

http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/nebulization.html

Is this the other method to treat respiratory infection in rabbit? 

What kind of antibiotic using for nebulization?


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## Maureen Las (Nov 17, 2010)

This article mentions a few of the antibiotics

http://www.ontariorabbits.org/health/healthinfo14.html

I did aforum search on nebulizing

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/search.php?s=1&q=nebulizing

you probably can find some threads by previous members who have done this treatment; I have no personal experience with this other than to use a cool mister.


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## the fluffies (Nov 18, 2010)

I'm not familiar with it.
What is cool mister?


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## Maureen Las (Nov 18, 2010)

Randy suggested it instead of running a humdifier withwarm air for a bun with congestion.; it is like a humdifier but it sprays out acool mist which is easier to breathe in than heavier warm air. 
They sell them cheap almost everywhere here. ..but you can't put meds into it like a nebulizer


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## the fluffies (Nov 18, 2010)

I couldn't find handy cool mister in Malaysia


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## the fluffies (Nov 18, 2010)

I rushed back to Penang this early morning when my bf told me Shiro is not eating and drinking when he checked on him 2 days ago.And he was left unattended for 2 days because my bf was out station. 

I reached home and found: 
- no poops in his litterbox 
- pellets and water were left untouched
- pineapple juice was left untouched
- carrots were left untouched
- Shiro only fed on a few strands of cilantro and a small slice of papaya. :nerves1

I quickly gave him some pineapple juice, Critical Care and Benebac. He doesn't eat by his own, so i have to force feed him. *But what worrying me is, he is having a distended tummy*. But not hard. A soft tummy, except looks distended. *Could it be a blockage??? *:nerves1:nerves1:nerves1

I fed more pineapple juice. I've been monitoring him for more than 12 hours now (since i reached home this morning). But no poops. And he still doesn't touch anything yet. :sigh:

We just get home from the vet who prescribed him Baytril last 2 weeks. The vet checked on his lungs and said Shiro probably having lungs fibrosis. He cant confirmed since Shiro has no nose discharge. He said to take culture test, he needs some discharge. 

He prescribed us Baytril, Prednisolone and Denxin (correct me if i have spelled it wrongly, but that was how the vet pronounced it. I couldn't find the correct spelling from the internet). But this time, he gave lower dosage compared to what he prescribed us 2 weeks ago. Maybe because Shiro has reduced some weight?? He was 1.7kg 2 weeks ago. Now he is 1.3kg. I have no choice, but trust this vet since he is the only vet i can reach at this moment :sigh:

The vet doesn't said anything about Shiro's stomach. For him it there's nothing wrong with his tummy. But i still feed him with pineapple juice (again.. i have no simethicone in hands) and hope he will poop soon :sigh:

ray:

ray:


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## the fluffies (Nov 18, 2010)

I woke up this morning to find my Shiro laying in his cage. Nose and ears are cold. I put a heating pad and hot bottle near him. 

He is dehydrated. Tried to feed him some water and critical care, but he is no longer interested to swallow them. His nose is not twitching as always. He is breathing heavily. He looks really tired and doesn't struggle everything i pick him up to place him on the heating pad. 

I have a feeling that he cant make it. But i will try to take him to any available vet for fluid therapy. 

ray:


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## Maureen Las (Nov 18, 2010)

I am so sorry for you hon


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## the fluffies (Nov 19, 2010)

Shiro has left us this morning... 
I feel like crap


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## jujub793 (Nov 19, 2010)

oh no! I am SO sorry!!! you have tried so hard to help him and did everything you could. :cry4:


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## the fluffies (Nov 19, 2010)

http://thefluffies.wordpress.com/2010/11/19/goodbye-shiro/


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## tristaw. (Nov 19, 2010)

I am so so sorry. You did all you can do.. so sad and painful. My heart goes out to you..:hug:


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## Maureen Las (Nov 19, 2010)

I am so very very sorry for you :sosad
You have worked like a little trooper to help her and you did an outstanding job considering the difficulty that you had getting supplies etc. 

She could not have had a better 'MOM " and you are an absolutely fantastic rabbit owner.
I admire your persistene, patience, love and devotion to her :hug::feelbetter:
She is a bunny angel now but you were also an angel to her. 

O:bigtears:nce I again I am so sorry


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## BabyMei (Nov 19, 2010)

I cried as soon as I seen that your Shiro has passed on D: ... May he rest in the Lords arms forever in paradiseâ¥


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## tonyshuman (Nov 20, 2010)

I am so sorry. I wish I could have helped more, although you really did do everything you could for him. Poor little guy and poor you. Binky free, sweet Shiro. You were well loved.


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## the fluffies (Nov 20, 2010)

Yesterday before he passed on, we sent him to the vet for fluid therapy because he was dehydrated. 

The vet gave him an injectable Baytril. The vet said, Shiro was constipated. At that moment, he said the tummy was the issue, not Shiro's lungs. So he asked me to stop the Prednisolone and Denxin until shiro starts eating again.

Then, I saw the vet draw Sodium Chloride in a 20ml syringe. I didnt notice if he draw other than Sodium Chloride, but told me, "Now i'm going to give some glucose to your rabbit" 

He inserted a small needle (this needle attached to a 1' length tube) into Shiro's skin. He then injecting the liquid from the 20ml syringe from the other end of the tube. He injected 20ml liquid into shiro's body.






I wonder was he doing the right method to re-hydrate Shiro? 

We drove home right away. We reached home about 1 and half hours after that treatment. I put Shiro is his playpen. At first he looked really tired, but after 10minutes, he suddenly moved here and there and peed in his playpen. I quickly hold him, and saw he tried to catch air from his mouth. He was gasping and shaking his body about almost 30minutes before he passed on. It was really heart wrenching to see him like that. He died in my arms. 

I wonder what happened to him. But it looked like he was having lungs failure.


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## maxysmummy (Nov 20, 2010)

that is so sad! me and my fiance read your story today and shed a little tear.

it's so hard losing a bunny.

i wish you the best x


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## Flash Gordon (Nov 20, 2010)

oh my....im so so sorry.


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## tonyshuman (Nov 20, 2010)

It's hard to tell exactly what was going on. It does sound like your vet was doing the right method for rehydrating Shiro, although the liquid should have been at body temperature--if it was very cold, he could have a serious drop in body temperature. The sodium chloride solution was probably the right solution to use for hydration, unless it was concentrated sodium chloride and not "normal saline", which is at a concentration similar to what is in the blood. I don't know why he would call it glucose unless there was glucose added to the solution that you couldn't read on the container. However, giving 20mL of body temperature normal saline to a bunny his size with that type of needle, tubing, and syringe would be fine.


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## the fluffies (Nov 20, 2010)

He didnt take any body temperature before giving the fluid therapy. He just took Shiro's weight. 

May i know what do u mean by "the liquid should have been at body temperature"? Shiro was cold (i touched his ears) before we took him there. We put a heating pad under his body. When we reached the vet, i touched his ears again. It felt normal.


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## Nancy McClelland (Nov 20, 2010)

we're so sorry for your loss.:sad:


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## tonyshuman (Nov 20, 2010)

I mean that the fluids shouldn't have been at room temperature (around 20 degrees C) or refrigerated (around 4 degrees C). They should have been at a temp closer to what his normal body temp would be: around 37 degrees C.


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## the fluffies (Nov 20, 2010)

I see.. which means the fluids have to be heat up a bit? Is there any method to heat it up before given to animal?

What is happen if the fluid given colder than his body temperature? Sudden drop of body temperature my lead to death?


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## Bunny parents (Nov 21, 2010)

I'm so sorry for your loss.


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## tonyshuman (Nov 22, 2010)

Sudden drop in body temperature could lead to shock, which if untreated could lead to death. The fluids are usually warmed up by putting them in a warm incubator (kinda like the opposite of a fridge). There are other methods, but you wouldn't want to do something like microwaving it--it can get too hot and have uneven heat distribution.

I do think that Shiro had a lot of things going on, though, and it's hard to say exactly what caused his death.


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## jcottonl02 (Nov 22, 2010)

I'm so sorry.

You tried your best for him 

RIP Shiro 

Jen


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