# Living World Deluxe Habitat Standard Size



## roroarro (Jan 7, 2013)

Hi all!
As explained in my introductive post I'm searching a good housing for our Holland Lop. 

She is 2 months and 7 days old and she weighs 2.2 pounds.

We live in a department and she spent quite a lot of time in a small housing. 

I want to improve her living conditions as soon as possible (Lets say, Im quite in a hurry) but in in Argentina there are very few housing options and are all really expensive (imported products with shipment, taxes etc.)

I'd love to buy the Living World Large but will cost me something like 300 dollars that converted in Argentinian pesos is a huge amount of money.

I've find and used Living World, Standard size in perfect conditions, which would cost me 75 dollars. It's is still quite a bunch of money for a used product and it's too small (I guess) to spend there a lot of time, but I think that it could be a good temporary solution. 

Tomorrow our little bunny could already move in her new home.






Next step will be to find a bigger habitat or better to secure the room were her habitat is located so that she could move freely in that space, in and out from her habitat. 

There are no cables on the floor but she attempt to "chew" our furniture and she is not litter trained yet, so I was thinking to put a modular grid or something like to create a "yard" around her habitat, like 4 square meters. In this area I could put cardboard boxes or tubes so that she could have some fun.

So, I have few questions.

1) Do you think that my plan (standard habitat + yard) is OK?
2) Do you think that she could manage to enter inside the balcony hole of the standard habitat?
3) What kind of metal grid should I use to delimitate this yard?

Thanks a lot!

Federico


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## BinkyBunny (Jan 7, 2013)

Have you considered making one from NIC grids and zip ties?


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## whitelop (Jan 7, 2013)

This poster is in Argentina, so NIC grids are maybe not an option. 

I think that that cage and an exercise yard would be fine. Maybe until you get her good with the litter box, then you can expand her exercise area to your whole apartment. 
And yes, I think she could manage that little jump onto the platform and she would probably like to get into the house. My rabbit is in a cage a little larger than that and she gets access to my whole kitchen during most of the day and into the night. I would let her out of the exercise yard a little too, to give her more exercise and let her explore more. 

I would suggest NOT using bedding in the cage though, get a small litter box and put the bedding in the box, to get her to use the litter box. You sweep up her poops and put her pee in the box to get her smell in the box and she'll eventually get the idea to use it. But when you have bedding in the whole cage AND the litter box, you confuse them. 

I hope that helps.


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## missyscove (Jan 7, 2013)

I'm not sure if these are popular in Argentina, but I use a dog crate as a cage for my rabbit. I have the 42 inch (second largest) of these http://www.petco.com/product/13372/...Dog_2-_-Petco Premium 2-Door Dog Crates-13372


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## Imbrium (Jan 7, 2013)

you mentioned "modular grids"... is that something like these? http://www.sears.com/stor-floor-standing-6-cube-storage-unit/p-00913332000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

if so, you can build a really bada** cage out of those and zip-ties that's WAY better (and cheaper) than any cage you could buy.
(see http://breyfamily.net/bunnycage.html for more info)

are small animal playpens/dog pens available to you? you can use those in place of a cage or zip-tie one or more to a cage to create a "run" space. I use a storage cube grid condo with a run made of playpens for my bunnies:


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## roroarro (Jan 7, 2013)

Hi!!!
Thanks a lot.
I was searching for NIC grids but I didn't find it in Argentina.

There are &#8220;Playpan&#8221; available manly for dogs but they are bulky or quite expensive --> 200/250 USD (Why is everything is so expensive in this country???)
http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-445303989-corrales-jaulas-transportadoras-p-avion-perros-gatos-_JM
They could do the job but I have to find a model/size that fit in my kitchen or to build one on my own.

What I was thinking is exactly what you Whitelop suggest me:

She can spend the day in the cage and the exercise yard and have access to the rest of the house when we are present.

The house is not "rabbit safe" yet (cables, material like plastic and wood that she could chew, good furniture that she could like to taste) so when she explore the house we have to monitor her all around.

I think that I'll follow different steps:

1) The Living World cage --> She will have it today. This will be already an improvement.

2) The exercise yard
I'll solve this during this week or next (I have to take a "Day off" to find a solution for the yard, that is not too expensive and fit to my kitchen.

3) A safe kitchen.
The exercise yard looks like a good solution until she is litter trained. Then I can use the same "playpan" grid to protect the side of the kitchen were appliances and furniture are located so that she could move freely in the kitchen all day and night.

4) I secure portions of the house like the living room so she can go around safe when we are at home.

I have to work with different steps because I have some time/budget constrains and i cannot solve everything in a day.


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## roroarro (Jan 7, 2013)

missyscove said:


> I'm not sure if these are popular in Argentina, but I use a dog crate as a cage for my rabbit. I have the 42 inch (second largest) of these http://www.petco.com/product/13372/...Dog_2-_-Petco Premium 2-Door Dog Crates-13372



Something like this could probably be available... But I fear that the price will be quite high.
This example cost more then the World Living Large and it's not bigger:
http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar...-perros-desarmable-y-apilables-con-ruedas-_JM --> 300 USD!!!


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## roroarro (Jan 7, 2013)

Imbrium said:


> ...


Thanks for the supercool ideas.


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## whitelop (Jan 7, 2013)

I think your bunny will be very happy to have a kitchen to roam around in. My past rabbit loved my kitchen and my little baby loves my kitchen right now.


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## Imbrium (Jan 7, 2013)

ouch! prices are *really* crazy there!

trying to think of a cheaper way... you could get some 1x2s (or whatever the equivalent is there - just make sure the wood is untreated in case the bunny chews), 2x4s, screws/nails, zipties and chicken wire or hardware cloth (some sort of metal mesh) and make your own playpen.

use the 1x2s to make upright supports (I'd go with a minimum of .6M-7.6M high)
cut the 2x4s to .15M or so
nail or screw the lengths of 1x2s to the side of the 2x4 pieces so that the 2x4s work as "feet" to keep the 1x2s upright, like I did when I made this jump:






use zipties to connect the end of the roll of chicken wire/hardware cloth (or whatever mesh you find) to one of the upright 1x2 poles, then every .6M or so, ziptie another pole to the mesh. keep doing that until you've got whatever size playpen you want.

you can use two screw hook + eye things on the two ends of the length of fencing (one high/one low) so that you can latch them together.


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## roroarro (Jan 7, 2013)

Imbrium said:


> ouch! prices are *really* crazy there!
> 
> trying to think of a cheaper way... you could get some 1x2s (or whatever the equivalent is there - just make sure the wood is untreated in case the bunny chews), 2x4s, screws/nails, zipties and chicken wire or hardware cloth (some sort of metal mesh) and make your own playpen.
> 
> ...



 coooool
Thanks a lot... I'll use your suggestions to build something good.
I'll post some picture as soon as the "proyect" will be completed.

What kinda wood can I use? Pine could be good?
"Untrated wood" means that it's just natural wood with no painting/varnishing ?


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## Imbrium (Jan 7, 2013)

anything but cedar should be fine - pine is only bad in shavings form... and yeah, untreated means no paint/varnish/weatherproofing/sealant/whatever. just plain 'ol wood.

good luck with the project - hopefully hardware store prices are a bit easier on the wallet!


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## roroarro (Jan 7, 2013)

Imbrium said:


> pine is only bad in shavings form



Ouch... Why?

Here in Argentina they sell it for rabbit's litters !!! :lookaround


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## roroarro (Jan 7, 2013)

here is the answer: http://www.rabbit.org/care/shavings.html
I'll have to find another solution... Mumble numble


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## Imbrium (Jan 7, 2013)

they sell pine shavings here, too, even though they're bad for almost all small animals. if you have feed stores down there, you should check them out - in the US, they sell horse-quality hay by the bale for a LOT cheaper than pet stores and they also sell wood pellets which are very cheap and great for using in the litter box


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## roroarro (Jan 7, 2013)

Sorry if I'm annoying you... 
Do you know if this product could be good?
Should be something related with corncobs:
http://www.alamaula.com/buenos-aires/mascotas-y-animales/cama-sanitaria-para-conejos-o-pequenos-roedores-the-bunny-shop/2433644
http://www.distribuidorasilva.com.ar/images/marlo.jpg


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## Imbrium (Jan 7, 2013)

I wouldn't use corn-based litter, as bunnies can't digest corn properly so it could be bad for him if he decides to nibble on it. hard wood shavings (ie not cedar or pine), hard or soft wood pellets (or wood stove pellets that don't say they have an accelerant added) and paper-based litters like these:
http://www.petco.com/product/3370/Carefresh-Natural-Pet-Bedding.aspx
http://www.petco.com/product/100574/Kaytee-Soft-Granule-Pet-Bedding.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch
are what you want - nothing corn based, no pine/cedar shavings, no clay-based cat litters and nothing "clumping".

and no worries about asking lots of questions - that's what we're here for!


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## roroarro (Jan 7, 2013)

Thanks a lot Imbrium...
This country is really not prepared for rabbits ufff&#8230; It&#8217;s really stressing specially because I want to do this right!

I'll get rid immediately of pine shaving and I'll search for horse hay from bale or wood pellets... Let's see what I can find.

Cardboard cut in stripes or little squares could be a solution until I find something more appropriate?
And I wonder... She already eats (alfalfa) hay. If I use hay in the litter, would be unsafe if she eat it after defecating or urinating on it?

Thanks!


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## Imbrium (Jan 7, 2013)

yeah, that's a big frustration with a lot of folks overseas - they just can't get the really good stuff for rabbit care 

if you have trouble finding a feed store, you might call around to any horse stables in your area to see if they can tell you where you can buy hay.

I dunno how well cardboard would work in a litter box... shredded newspaper would probably be better. if you want a good temporary solution (probably too tedious for long-term use), here's a thread on how to make your own carefresh-style bedding: http://hamsterhideout.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=65559 (black and white newspaper, plain white paper and paper bags can all be used to make it).

I wouldn't use hay *as* litter, since it SUCKS for odor control and has no absorbency... however, you can put hay in one side of the litter box for her to eat (since they like to eat and poop at the same time). she probably won't eat it if she's pottied on it... but even if she does, it won't cause her any harm.


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## roroarro (Jan 7, 2013)

Thanks!!!
Maybe I found the wood pellets...

"Pell cat"
http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-444171568-multi-pet-aserrin-sanitario-ecologico-x4kg-_JM
It's made of Aserrin that could be translated as: "pressed wood leftovers"...

Let's see if they have it in stock...


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## Imbrium (Jan 7, 2013)

yup, those will work!


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## roroarro (Jan 7, 2013)

Imbrium said:


> yup, those will work!



:thankyou:arty0002:arty0002:arty0002:

YEaaaaaaa
I really thank you a lot!!! 

"Pancha" will have a better and healthier life thanks to all you nice people!

These days I'll read all the forum to get more info about these lovely animals.

Ciao!
Federico


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## roroarro (Jan 8, 2013)

Step one completed! "Pancha" is in her new house. Today or tomorrow I'll upload some pics. Ciao.


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## Imbrium (Jan 8, 2013)

yay, new house!


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## roroarro (Jan 11, 2013)

As promise, here you find an images of the new habitat:






I have to say that it didn't have quite a good reception from my wife. She thinks that to use that kind of plain bottom is unhealthy and unclean. 

&#8220;Pancha&#8221; is getting use to litter but still drop her pills and sometime urine outside of it.

So my wife tends to prefer the wire floor cages (Covered with plastic grid to make it more comfortable). 

I think that the new cage is far better than the older one but well, she is not convinced.

At the moment I&#8217;m using a litter box way too big.
I put wood pellets, then a wire frame and then a plastic grid.





Reading this article: http://www.rabbit.org/faq/sections/litter.html I understand that there I shouldn´t need all this stuff and that I could just a smaller box (maybe half size of the actual), with wood pellets and maybe hay on it (In Argentina I can find just Alfalfa hay)

That could be OK? Could be dangerous if the rabbit stay/eat hay/ dig in the litter where she urinate and defecate? 

Anyway I&#8217;m quite sure that my wife will be &#8220;horrified&#8221; from this kind of litter&#8230;


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## JBun (Jan 12, 2013)

It looks good! Pancha looks happy in her little rabbit home. Instead of using a smaller litter box, you could take the grate off of it and put hay in there at the end that she doesn't potty on . Sometimes having a grate on the litter makes it hard for a rabbit to first learn how to be litter box trained, so taking the grate out might help her learn to use the litter box better. It doesn't hurt to have the hay in there. It actually helps them to learn to use the litter box better as they will poop and pee while they eat hay. If she pees on the hay it won't hurt anything, she just won't eat that part of the hay. I have a rabbit that I had a small litter box for, but she kept peeing outside the litter box, so I got a bigger one and now she is really good at using it. I put a layer of wood pellets in the bottom, then I put a layer of hay over it and a pile of hay at the opposite end from where she usually pees. My rabbit will also sleep in her litter box on the pile of hay. I keep the peed on stuff cleaned out every other day, so she's not getting wet from her urine or anything, and if you put a layer of hay over the pellets, that also helps the pee drain to the pellets and helps keep the rabbit from laying in it. This is what seems to work best for my rabbit as she doesn't like a grate in her litter box.


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## roroarro (Jan 12, 2013)

So cute!!! Your rabbit is really enjoying life in the. Thank you for the advice!

Pancha doesn&#8217;t spend much time in the litter&#8230; just to pee, so it&#8217;s a space that she doesn´t use and it´s a pity, considering that the cage in not &#8220;huge&#8221;. 

To have wood pellets and hay on it feel more natural and &#8220;rabbit friendly&#8221; that a plastic grid. She will surely enjoy it.

I should probably find a cheaper hay to use as bedding&#8230; in Argentinian pet shops I can just find expensive Alfalfa hay but there are a lot of places with horses (stables, race places etc.)&#8230; So, there should be a hay provider as well&#8230; I just hope that I&#8217;ll not have to buy a whole bale hahaha.

Thanks and ciao
Federico


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## JBun (Jan 12, 2013)

Actually buying a whole bale is usually a lot cheaper than buying a little bag at the pet shop. Here in the US it's $4 for a 3 lb. bag of hay in the store. I can buy a 50 lb bale of horse hay for $5 from a farmer. You could try and see if a race stable will sell you a bale. They usually have good grass hay for their horses, and grass hay will be better for your rabbit too, instead of just the alfalfa.


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## Chrisdoc (Jan 13, 2013)

Pancha looks really happy in her new home. I can sympathise with you as I have real trouble finding hay supplies and some of the stuff you can get so easily in the States. I´m currently waiting for one of the local markets to stock the enclosures again. They come in metal grids and I can tie them with zip ties. That´s what I´m using to make their living area much bigger but I only have six and want to buy six more but have to wait until they stock them again at the local Lidl store. It´s such a pain. 

But, having said that, you do get quite inventive to provide stuff for them. I´m sure you´ll manage to make a wonderful home for little Pancha. 

Hasta pronto Pancha.


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## roroarro (Jan 24, 2013)

Pancha died few minutes ago.

I can´t really understand how it could happen. 

Two days ago she was really vital, jumping and playing all around. She was loving her new habitat and we were training her to stay in the kitchen So she could move freely at least 7/8 hours a day. She was quite litter trained and her place was always clean. 

I did a lot of investigation and kilometers to buy the right materials and foods and she was receiving attentions and love.

Then gastroenteritis came. I cannot understand what could be the problem. The only possibility is some cardboard I gave her to play, making like a &#8220;tube&#8221;. 

When I went in the kitchen I saw that there were pieces in the floor. I didn´t worry too much because I red in Internet that cardboard was not a problem. During the night or morning she started to have diarrea. 

I cannot find another explication.


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## whitelop (Jan 24, 2013)

Awww. I'm so sorry for your loss! :rainbow:


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## BinkyBunny (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm so sorry :'( Sometimes we just don't know unless you get a bunny autopsy.


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## roroarro (Jan 24, 2013)

Both my daughter and my nephew&#8217;s rabbit died. I'm not sure about what caused the death of our rabbit but I discovered, speaking with people of a petshop, that the breeder was really not a good one.


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## JBun (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm really sorry about your bunny. It's so sad to lose them. Digestive problems can be a common thing with rabbits. I don't think it would have been the cardboard, though I guess it's possible. Usually though it has to do with the rabbits pelleted food. Rabbits can also get bacteria or parasites that can make them sick as well. One of my favorite pet rabbits died this summer from a similar problem. Some rabbits are just more sensitive than others.


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