# I'm such a bad mama, guys...Hobbes still not well



## maherwoman (Dec 14, 2007)

Hi guys...

I feel so horrible...I just posted yesterday how Hobbes was crying that the litterbox wasn't clean, so we cleaned it...and it turns out that he's got some sort of digestive health issue going on. His rear end is all red and sore looking, and got stuff around it (different than just having "leftovers" if you catch my drift), and he's now as of last night crying when he leaves the litterbox, and comes over and cries to me to let me know he's not feeling good.

So, I've got both him AND Sunny scheduled to be seen by the vet on Monday...him for that, and Sunny for those bumps on her neck (we had planned to wait until after we move, since it wasn't an emergency thing with her bumps)...but Mama's scared, guys. I really don't know what's wrong with him.

Add to that the stupidity of us never getting them their vaccinations (we thought that since they were strictly indoors, and never around any other cats PERIOD, that they didn't need them, and recently learned otherwise), so I'm worried that it may be something that we could've prevented had we been more informed.

I honestly thought that was the case...that they weren't needed...as my mother never got our kitties their shots, so I thought that was right. Stupid me...TOTALLY WRONG.

I'm so upset and worried...he's still eating and drinking, just visiting the litterbox more often for both pee and poop...and his poor little back side really doesn't look happy (you know where I mean, right?).

I feel like such a horrible, awful Mommy...I swore to take care of them and protect them when they came into my house, and made such an awful decision in not getting them vaccinations. I don't know if times have changed as far as having to get ALL cats vaccinated, or if my mother was just not-so-smart in not doing it for our kitties.

Please pray that they're okay, and that he just ate something that didn't agree with his system, or something silly like that (he's silly like that...kinda like babies that'll find the ONE thing on the floor that you missed in sweeping).

Hugs,

Rosie BadMommy


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## nermal71 (Dec 14, 2007)

Don't beat yourself up hon. I do not vaccinate my cats past the kitten ones. This was a mutual decision made with our vet. My cats do not go outside and they are never around other cats. They do get regular check-ups. It was just decided that was not a necessary thing with them. There are many people who adhere to this with cats. And while I know there are many who do not agree with it sometimes you have to make decisions as to what is best for you and your family of animals.


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## okiron (Dec 14, 2007)

First of all...YOU ARE NOT A BAD MOMMY!!!!

You didn't know. A bad mommy is someone who knows and goes out of their way to ignore it. You're always doing your best Rosie and I know you love your animals so don't say that. Hobbes probably got into something that was a nono for cats and now he has to pay for his sillyness He'll never do that again.


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## maherwoman (Dec 14, 2007)

Thanks, guys...I do feel really horrible, though. Also feel horrible for getting mad at him for peeing in the hay (which we've obviously replaced now, lol), when he just wasn't feeling good. 

My poor kitties...

One good thing about kitties...they sure do hang in there. They're little toughies! 

I feel so awful, though...Hobbes woke me up this morning, standing on my chest, crying in my face...telling me he just wasn't feeling good, "Can I go to the dr, Mommy? I's not feelin' good..."

My poor sweet baby...they're both gonna get some extra love from Mama...


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## Flashy (Dec 14, 2007)

I know you feel bad, but have you done everything you can with the knowledge you have? Yes. Have you kept learning?Yes. Are you doing something about the problem? Yes. So you are doing, and have done all you can. Sometimes these things happen, and it's not your fault, all you can do is learn from it and move forward, which you will do, because you are a great mama.

Let us know how they get on at the vets


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## maherwoman (Dec 14, 2007)

Thank you, Flashy...that helps so much...

True...I know I do all I can for my babies...I should really just relax...but I just cry when my babies don't feel good. For instance, when we had Fiver at the vet, and they took him out of the room to check his nail closer up and maybe try to get it to come off, I just cried and cried...Danny hugged me the whole time, until they came back, and I had tissue in-hand. The vet understood, though...

I'll do the same on the way home with the kitties...we've had them since a VERY young age. We had to nurse them as babies, because their mama wouldn't. And we had to take them in at about a month old, as their mama's owner was already introducing them to solid (read: crunchy) food, and it would've been a BAD thing for them to stay there. They're going to be three years of age in April (the 30th), so we've had them all their lives, pretty much. 

And they know they're my babies, too. Hobbes lays on me every night, and Sunny lays on me (up to my face, sometimes) when I'm hangin out on the couch. They're totally Mama's Babies, and they know it. 

So, when my babies are sick, I kick myself from here to the ends of the earth...they rely on me (and their Daddy, obviously) for EVERYTHING...their whole lives depend on OUR choices...how long they live even depends on us and what we decide for them. So, when they get sick, I try to find how I could've prevented it. And when I don't know what's wrong, all I can do is wait to see...and wonder until then.

I hate waiting until Monday for this...but unfortunately, they aren't open tomorrow...so I have a whole weekend of continuing to put the new babies' cages together, AND taking special care of my kitties. 

Pray for us, guys...for the kitties and me to all have strength...and for them and their health issues...


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## Flashy (Dec 14, 2007)

*hugs* i know what you mean, all parents and pet owners do. but sometimes things happen that can't have been prevented, sometimes you can do anything and everything and still lose someone, but that doesn't make it your fault, it makes it tragic circumstances.

If someone loses a kid to cancer or something, that doesn't make it the parents fault, it makes it a tragedy. Try to remind yourself of those kind of things.

You know where I am if you need a chat.


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## Bo B Bunny (Dec 14, 2007)

Does Hobbes have poopy butt or is there something else going on? 

Could he have urinary problems? Tank did that sitting in the box and crying and peeing on things when he started having cystitis.


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## MsBinky (Dec 14, 2007)

Straining to pee in cats is an emergency so keep an eye on him to differentiate between that and being constipated. :hug:Hope Hobbes feels better soon.


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## Bo B Bunny (Dec 14, 2007)

Exactly. Sometimes they only need to get help to pass what is in their system - the sludge or even little crystals...... but other times they need surgery.

I've been down both roads...


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## Rattiemattiesrattery (Dec 14, 2007)

Aww, I'm sure he'll be fine.

I only Vaccinate my cats if they are under 4 months and Over 10 years.
I've had problems in the past with my cats between those ages getting really sick or something happening to them. Just as with getting them Rabies shots, I Never get them their Rabies shots. For some reason they always die. *from the same day to a up to a month later*


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## maherwoman (Dec 14, 2007)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> Does Hobbes have poopy butt or is there something else going on?
> 
> Could he have urinary problems? Tank did that sitting in the box and crying and peeing on things when he started having cystitis.


Here's all the data:

1. His symptoms just showed up yesterday, so it's been caught as soon as possible.

2. I've been watching him, and he doesn't appear to be _straining _to pee, but has (as of last night) started visiting the box often, and has started peeing other places in addition to in the box, so definitely something urinary going on as well...

3. He also has a red, irritated bum-hole, and it also appears dirty around the outside edge (even with my cleaning it yesterday...sorry to be so graphic)...so I'm thinking there's something possibly parasitic going on. His poops _are _softer than usual, but he doesn't have diarrhea or poopy butt issues...and his poop isn't a different color, and isn't stinkier than usual...so it doesn't appear to be roundworm, as he's also eating his normal amount (which isn't more than normal, and his poop amount matches his consumption level). I definitely know it isn't tapeworm, either...as I've had enough cats when I was younger that had it to know the signs.

We're going to keep him nice and hydrated this weekend, and I'm also going to do more research online about various things to see what we can do to keep him as comfortable as possible (as he's also just this afternoon started to lay down carefully, as if his bum-hole is uncomfortable). 

The soonest I can get him in is Monday, so we're doing the best we can with this. I know it's a bit of an emergency type situation, thus why he's going in on Monday. I would've taken him in tomorrow, but the vet isn't in that day, so that wasn't an option.

One thing to note: cats are MUCH more hearty than buns. Him having a urinary problem that JUST presented a day ago does not mean I need to take him to an emergency vet...but it does mean extra care over the weekend. I'm going to do research about what I can do, as in keeping him hydrated, trying to keep him comfortable, etc. It may mean applying something topical to his bum...I've called the vet here and left a message (they're going to call me back) to see what they recommend as far as his care over the weekend...what I can do to help him out, etc.

I have a feeling that Sunny's neck bumps and his bum problem are related, just that it manifested differently in each kitty. 

Keep them in your prayers, guys! The one good thing in all this...I've had MANY cats (over 20), and have had cats for seventeen years now...so they're in the hands of someone who understands them quite well. I'm not worried about having to wait until Monday for their vet visit. 

I just want them healthy again, and happy. They're both playing and eating and drinking...so that shows me that it's nothing that could be life-threatening having to wait during the weekend (and if either of them start to be lethargic, I have two emergency vets near me, so we'll take them in). I also know that my Hobbes is quite the whiner, so it could be much smaller a thing than he's presenting, lol.

BUT...I always treat things with them as dire as they themselves present the problem to be, even if he's being whiny about it. Lol.

Hugs!

Rosie*

Edited to add: Hobbes isn't having any bladder sludge either...just having trouble holding it.


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## MsBinky (Dec 14, 2007)

Wasn't meant to offend :?

A urinary infection and a urinary blockage are two different things. Was just saying to make sure it wasn't a bloackage. Sorry.


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## maherwoman (Dec 14, 2007)

Just got off the phone with the vet to see if there's anything I can do to make him a bit more comfortable over the weekend...

She said (and my research thus far also said) that it sounds as if he has both a urinary issue AND a need to have his anal glands expressed. She said to keep an eye on him and make sure he's outputting into the litterbox, and that if he stops to take him in to an emergency vet.

Right now, I KNOW he's urinating...he just urinated on his favorite blanket a half-hour ago...poor guy. I know he didn't want to, he's just having a hard time holding it. He also tried to urinate in the bin I have on top of the hay (to block him from going IN the hay). So, I estimate he's got a bladder infection going on...pray that it doesn't progress over the weekend.

As far as his anal glands, I asked her if there was anything topical I could put on his bum to help with the irritation, but she said that there's really nothing that would help if it's an anal gland issue. 

C'mon Hobbes...keep "goin" for Mama for the weekend, Buddy...


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## Bo B Bunny (Dec 14, 2007)

Glad it's not seeming like sludge/cystitis. Sounds like maybe some sort of virus or something.

Keep us posted


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## maherwoman (Dec 14, 2007)

UPDATE: I called the emergency 24hr place near us, and learned that it's only $85 for an exam if we are a walk-in...so we're going to take him right when Danny gets home. I don't want to wait any longer than necessary with the urinary issues. We'll also ask them to express his anal glands (poor guy), and that's about $22...so not bad, for an emergency vet. 

So...be praying, guys...


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## seniorcats (Dec 14, 2007)

No way are you a bad mama. No wait! Yes, you are a bad mama and I need to immediately come and take custody of your cats! How's that? Just kidding 'cause I covet your babies. You are an excellent kitty mama.

Sounds like a lower urinary tract problem. If you're headed for the vet, you should be finding out soon. One thing to check with the vet and possibly your regular vet is teeth. As odd as it sounds, one of our cats had repeat bladder infections until we got him a dental. He had tarter build up and some problems under the gum line. Some of the newer xray equipment can pick up on dental problems below the gum line. Just something to keep in mind.

Hope your baby is better soon.


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## okiron (Dec 15, 2007)

Just let us know when you come home


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## maherwoman (Dec 15, 2007)

Well, guys...back from the vet...

And SeniorCats, you are exactly right...he has a lower urinary tract problem. They're keeping him until they can get a good urine sample from him (they said they couldn't use the urine the poor guy expressed in the carrier...I asked, so he could come home...never know, right?)...and then he can come home. It might just be a couple hours, or it could be overnight (though I doubt it). They're also giving him sub-q fluids, and though I could've done it myself, I thought it less stressful for them to just do it while they have him there.

Poor Sunny DEMANDED to know where her brother was...she's looking at us like, "Um...did you forget something?!?!" She keeps looking at us like we misplaced him or left him in the car...and is SCOLDING me for it. Poor girl...I did let her know that he'll be home soon, and that seemed to calm her down. I'm also going to go sit with her until he comes home...and that'll help A LOT.

The vet said we caught it really early...he's still urinating, so that's a plus. Now, with a lower urinary tract problem, it could either be an actual infection (though she said that at least 90% of the time, it's not), or it could be bladder stones, or it could be blockage (it's not that, since he was still urinating fine), or it could be other urinary issues. The best thing (from what I picked up) would actually be if he had an infection, so it could be cleared up with antibiotics. But she did say that it could be something he has issues with off and on all his life (though that's not at all a certain thing). She said that it could just be something that, in the future, might get triggered by stressful things. She listed things like moving, a change in the furniture layout, new people moving in with us or moving out, new animals coming or going, basically just changes...and given that we're about to bring in three new animals, I'll have to watch him to be sure he's okay. I'll have to do the same thing when we move and Aaron (a friend) comes to live with us at the same time.

But, it could be a one-time-only issue...and that's what I'm hoping and praying for. 

So, pray for three things for my boy, if you could:

1. He expresses a good urine sample SOON, so he can come home,

2. That he has an actual infection, so it can get cleared up with antibiotics,

and 3. That it isn't a chronic condition with him, but a one time thing.

I had the hardest time leaving him there...the last time I had to leave a kitty at the vet's, it was my heart kitty, KeyKat, and she never made it back home...but passed at the vet's office. So, seeing him all sad that I was walking away...and seeing Sunny when we got home...boy, this is hard. Pray that my baby boy is okay, guys...


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## seniorcats (Dec 15, 2007)

Will pray for all 3 things and for his quick return. It's so much easier for the vet to get a urine sample then to try it at home. If you ever need to get a sample at home, try putting clean aquarium gravel in a litter box. When they urinate in it, the gravel won't soak it up so you can drain off a sample. Some cats may not use the gravel so a vet visit is a must. I bet the sub-q fluids do him a world of good. ray:

here is a more recent article from Ohio State that may be useful. It's kinda' long but everything is covered.

http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/assets/pdf/hospital/indoorcat/hostutler05.pdf


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## maherwoman (Dec 15, 2007)

Yeah, I think he'll come home so much happier than when we got there. Poor sweetheart...I love him so much, he's my baby...I hate thinking he's not doing well, or is all upset that we left him in that "horrid place", people poking and prodding him. He looked so sad as I walked away, but I knew it was the best thing for him...

And I think so, too, about the fluids doing him a lot of good. Especially if it's a bladder infection...it'll help flush out all the yucky bacteria. 

I'm so glad we caught it early, and I didn't wait until Monday to take him in...and thank the Lord we have an emergency vet nearby that does decent prices!! The visit itself was $85, the fluids $25, and the uring testing brought it to just under $200. 

And the wait continues...and more reassurances to Sunny (and to myself) that he's gonna be just fine.

Oh, and P.S....I don't think you could ever convince me to give up custody, Girl! These are my kids!  Nice try, though...gotta commend you for tryin'. 

Edited to add: Thank you for the article...I'm printing it out now to keep on-hand, and to read tonight.


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## seniorcats (Dec 15, 2007)

Can't blame a girl for trying.....






I'll be waiting to hear good news.


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## maherwoman (Dec 15, 2007)

I will definitely let you know how things go, just as soon as I hear...

Off to snuggle with Sunny and keep her calm and okay...she's sleeping next to the blankie Hobbes peed on earlier (his favorite blankie...any cat that sleeps next to her brother's pee smell, you KNOW they're missing Brother...). Poor sweetie...

Cute pic, btw.


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## okiron (Dec 15, 2007)

*pray*


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## maherwoman (Dec 15, 2007)

Called the vet about ten minutes ago to ask how he was doing. They've given him the fluids, and were just about to try getting a urine sample again...as they hadn't been able to get one from him yet (they've been trying).

Keep praying...I want my boy home, and so does his sister...she's worried, but I'm giving her favorite belly rubs, so she's keeping calm.


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## seniorcats (Dec 15, 2007)

You know how cats think - she is probably thinking she is keeping her human mama calm.


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## Pipp (Dec 15, 2007)

Yikes, missed this! So sorry! Poor Hobbes,butgreat for catching it right away! :hug:

I've got a grossly overweight cat with urinary crystals, allergies (fish and something else still not ID'd) and stress reactions. 

It took a ton of experimenting to find the triggers. 

I had her under control until the last few months when her timidmom got sick, I have to try and keep mom's weight up and enticing her with food she likes, and it's VERY hard to keep her very pushydaughter from barging in and eating it. (If you lock mom up with the food, she won't eat, and she's a 'picker',takes her hours to eat her dinner). 

Here's hoping for an easy fix for Hobbes!

sas ink iris:


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## maherwoman (Dec 15, 2007)

That's so true, SeniorCats...I know Sunny's seen me crying off and on all day, and knows I'm worried...so I think we're helping each other through this.

Thank you, Sas...it's nice to know I'm not alone with kitty troubles (even though I hate that others go through it, too). 

Another update: Danny just called again. Seems they got Hobbes into the room, and onto the table, but didn't get to him fast enough to CATCH the urine. Poor guy was so scared, he urinated ALL over the table and one of the guys... So, they're giving him more fluids and they said they would catch his urine while he's still in the carrier this time. Poor baby...he's peed while scared in the past before, so I'm not surprised...

They said they would just call us when they've got success with this...and not to worry. My poor baby boy...


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## okiron (Dec 15, 2007)

I know it's painful and annoying and hard but...couldn't they give him a cathader for the pee? Finishes things faster at least.


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## maherwoman (Dec 15, 2007)

I honestly don't know how they're trying to get his urine. I think they might try it that way this time around, though...or definitely the next time, if they still have trouble the second time.

Gosh, I feel so dead inside, waiting to hear about my baby...and I don't even know if they'll be able to give him meds TONIGHT, or if we have to wait until the test results come back... I hope they find it out tonight, so we can get him started toward healing.

Also, if the test results take more than just tonight, we'll have a whole other day of him peeing ALL over the house... And I feel so horrible, because he feels like he's going to get in trouble for it...all day today he hid under the bed, except to come out to eat now and then, and pee wherever was closest...

Poor sweetie...


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## maherwoman (Dec 15, 2007)

It's now 2am, still no word...I just want my baby home, but Danny's now too tired to drive and pick him up (he's always wiped out Friday nights from working all week), so he'll just have to stay the night.

*sigh*...I don't know if I'll be able to sleep...


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## Flashy (Dec 15, 2007)

Stressing yoruself won't help the situation. Remind yourself that yes,you want him home, but he is in a good place where they are going to get him on the mend. You need to sleep to help you cope emotionally with this.


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## maherwoman (Dec 15, 2007)

Just called again to ask on his status...the guy said they've been busy with emergencies and haven't been able to pull a urine sample...but he would handle it just as soon as he could...and did we want to leave him overnight. I said okay, after making sure we wouldn't be charged extra for it...but I'll be worried all night long. He's all scared, and I promised him he could come right home...and Mama's not there...

I feel HORRIBLE...the last time I had a kitty have to stay at the vet's for any length of time, she was my heart kitty, and she passed away while there...and I know it sounds silly, but I'm so afraid my baby won't make it back home again. I know I'm just linking two entirely different things, but I can't help but think he won't sleep and will be crying all night...he yowls the WHOLE TIME he's in his carrier...and in the car...and I worry that he'll be doing that all night long there. Why didn't I take his favorite blankie, or one of my shirts? He's all alone, guys...I feel like such a horrible Mommy...


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## JimD (Dec 15, 2007)

ray:


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## JadeIcing (Dec 15, 2007)

You are not horrible. You thought he would be home the same night. He is in great hands. He knows his family loves him. You caught it early so that proves what a wonderful mommy you are. 



My family dog Sandy (the chi) has her anal glands expressed every so often. My mom learned to do it herself.:vomit:


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## Bassetluv (Dec 15, 2007)

Oh, poor Hobbes... It's no fun being sick! Rosie, you're doing all you can for him, and I know it's hard to leave him at the vet's overnight, but he's in great hands, and they will take care of him and find out what's wrong. Urinary issues with cats can be quite common, and most are easy to fix as well. Once they get a diagnosis he'll be treated and will be back to being Mr. Hobbes once again. 

Big hugs for Hobbes and you ((hug2))


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## jil101ca (Dec 15, 2007)

My cat is 4 and has had urinary problems since he was 6 mths old. The vet told me it is very common in netured males.1 1/2 years ago my friend who has had these problems with 2 of her netured males told me to stop feeding him dry cat food and to only feed him wet with some extra water mixed in it. So I did. My cat has not any trouble in a year now. He gets wet cat food and tuna for a treat.


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## Bo B Bunny (Dec 15, 2007)

*That's what I was thinking - that's how they got Tank's. Once they catheterized him a few times - it cleared his bladder out and got the sludge and crystals (stones). *

*cathader for the pee? Finishes things faster at least.[/quote]
*


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## maherwoman (Dec 15, 2007)

*sigh*

So here I am, 9:15am. Danny left on errands that HAVE to be run today (things for Teeny, including three carriers I found on CL for $50). I was going to get my nails done today, but all I can think of is my baby boy getting home. It was so hard sleeping without him last night...I cried myself to sleep. I just feel awful that I promised him we would be coming right back, and it was only a short while that he had to stay there. He didn't have ANYTHING, not his blankie, not a shirt of mine, not even his food...I feel horrible...he must think I've abandoned him.

This is the first time in about eleven years I've had to have an animal stay overnight, and it was so hard on me. I kept reading reviews of the place, mostly good, but some bad, including one where the kitty died while there (the kitty was diabetic, so I'm sure it was something along the lines of the human just not knowing how bad it was, or something along those lines...not that it makes her mourning any better). I have the vanilla prepared to give him a dot on the back of the neck, so Sunny doesn't decide he's not Hobbes and try to fight with him (as she did with his neuter and her spay...the only other two times either has had to go to the vet...poor guy, that's all he needs. (A dot of natural vanilla on the back of the neck neutralizes smells on the kitty. I'll have to do vanilla on both kitties to neutralize both their smells, so they have to go by sight, and not the fact that my sweet boy will unfortunately, inevitably bring home the smells of other cats AND dogs.)

Sunny slept with me all night, laying on my legs, and every now and then (every could hours, I'd estimate) she would come up by my head and mew, looking for Hobbes, asking me where he was, and then asking for a little love and reassurance. She's so sweet and patient.

Boy, I didn't think we'd be going through this today...wish me luck in getting a little more sleep. Danny said he would call just as soon as he got word on our boy...

Keep prayers going...


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## MsBinky (Dec 15, 2007)

Rosie,

You pay so much attention to your pets that I highly doubt anything treatable would be missed by you. I know about your heart kitty and I understand the fear. But know that you caught it so early that Hobbes will come home to you feeling better and being back to his normal silly self. 

I know I'm not in a position to give advice. So I won't. But I want you to know that I am thinking of you and your boy and praying you will have him home by your side in no time.


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## maherwoman (Dec 15, 2007)

FINALLY...GOOD NEWS...

Danny got a call back from the vet...they did get a successful urine sample, and he's ready for pickup. I told Danny to be sure that (a) we're not getting charged more than they said initially (since it's not our fault they couldn't get the urine sample, and had to keep him overnight, and (b) ask them how long it'll be before we can get some meds into him to start his healing process. I feel like the whole thing is wasted if we don't get some sort of meds for him ASAP. I'd like him to come HOME with them, though...so be praying.

I'm going to try to get more sleep...

Hugs!

Rosie*

P.S. MsBinky...thank you for your hugs. And thank you to everyone for your love and support.


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## Flashy (Dec 15, 2007)

*hugs* I'm glad he is coming home.

Please don't feel bad for leaving him there, you had to do what you had to do to make him ok. It would have been negligent to bring him home, so you did the right thing, no doubt about it 

As for the kitty who died, the vets if like a hospital, you get people who die in hospitals because they can't be made better, but it is the place where people who are ill need to be to give them the best chance of being better.

Here if you need me.

x


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## AngelnSnuffy (Dec 15, 2007)

Hey Rosie,

Just want to say that I've been thinking about you and Hobbes. Hoping everything would turn out okay. Glad he is okay, shew. You did catch this early. Please try not to beat yourself up. You did everything just right. You're a great mommy! Don't ever forget that.

Hugs to you and Hobbes:hug:


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## seniorcats (Dec 15, 2007)

Hope your baby is home soon. One of my vets was telling me about a seminar he attended on fluoide in the water and urinary problems in cats. Apparently there are sme studies that show floride may cause urinary problems in cats. Since we moved out here 18 years ago and have well water (no fluoride), not a single cat has had urinary infections, crystals, etc. I'll have to ask Doc if there are any studies he can e-mail me or print out for me. If I get anything, I'll share.

Here is one article from Dr. Michael Fox, might be useful http://tedeboy.tripod.com/drmichaelwfox/id36.html

hm-m-m-m-m-m, I wonder if our well water contributes to the longevity of our rabbits?


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## maherwoman (Dec 15, 2007)

Thank you so much, Crystal..it's so nice to know that someone's thinking of us, and praying for us. 

SeniorCats...I actually had that thought last night...they just increased the amount of flouride in the tap water here, and it occurred to me last night that it's been just enough time since they raised the amount and him getting sick...

So, we were already thinking of getting him a cat fountain (and we just got an email from Petco for Maisie's birthday saying any online order of $20 or more gets free shipping), so we'll look for one that has a good filter. Any recommendations?

Should we also fill it with bottled water? If so, any particular brands better than others?

Thanks so much for your idea!  We'll get this baby boy back in good health! 

Edited to add: Was thinking of buying them this fountain, but just has a charcoal filter...that wouldn't filter out the flouride, would it? We'd still have to buy bottled water, huh?


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## maherwoman (Dec 15, 2007)

Ok...Danny's going to be here with our darling boy in a short time. It took a while to get the meds (antibiotics) for him, and make sure they'd expressed his anal glands.

So, my baby boy will be home shortly, and I've got the vanilla ready! 

We're also looking into giving him (Sunny won't touch it with a ten ft pole) a half-can of dry food each evening to increase his water consumption. That, or adding oyster juice to some dry food. Not sure which we'll go with...waiting for word back on thecatsite.com.

Hugs!

Edited to add: Just saw this that you can add to a Drinkwell fountain...hmm...that looks nice, and would probably help with digestion issues, right?


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## maherwoman (Dec 15, 2007)

HE'S HOME!!

Poor sweetie peed ALL over himself in the car...to the point where his tail was dripping when he came out.

So I got a towel, and dried him as best as I could...got out the vanilla and put some on his neck (behind his head) and did the same with Sunny. She's ticked...he doesn't smell like himself right now and she's hanging out (by choice) in Em's room. I went ahead and closed the door to her room, so he could have time without the confusion of her hissing (which she is when she sees him...it'll take a couple days for her to be fully okay with him again).

I wiped her down with the same towel I used on Hobbes (with the side without any pee, but I ruffled the fur on his back a bit with it, so I could put the same smell on Sunny), and gave her some vanilla on her neck, as well...so it should expedite things as far as her chilling out about his difference in smell.

I've also wiped down his wet areas with some wipes I also use in grooming Sunny, so hopefully that'll lessen the amount of urine he's got on the surface of his fur. My poor baby boy...

Continue praying for my boy, guys...but at least he's home.

I'm gonna go sit on the couch with his favorite blankie, so he can lay with me. The good thing about that being that he already peed on it yesterday, so it won't hurt for him to again lay on it today. 

Edited to add: he's bathing right now, which is a good sign...and he's also eaten a couple morsels of food since coming home...so I know my boy is in pretty good shape...now for the antibiotics...


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## seniorcats (Dec 15, 2007)

Poor boy an d poor mama! I am so happy for all you that he is home. Bet he thinks he has been through a real kitty night mare.

About water - I know there is a big controversy about fuoridating water and I won't get into it here.Personally, Fluoride toothpaste makes me very nauseous so I switched to Tom's of Maine. We grew up without fluoride in our water and my teeth are rock hard - been know to break the dentist's diamond drill bits - and I rarely have dental problems.

Even though we have well water, we put in an in house water filtration system. The local Minnehahawater store installed. My Dh didn't like the taste of the well water and we use a salt based softening system.

Can't tell you which filters are best so I am going to put up a few links. Also, a lot of bottled water doesn't have the fluoride filtered out.

Cats and water - I think they drink more when the water is cool. Some cats like to have a second water bowl away from the food. If yours are like mine, they like 'sharing' water out our glasses.

*http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistryhowtoguide/a/removefluoride.htm*

*http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-flouride-water-filters.htm*

*http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/water-filtration-systems.htm*

*http://www.causeof.org/water.htm*


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## okiron (Dec 15, 2007)

I'm glad Hobbes is home Poor baby, it's ok we know you can't control your bladder right now 

I like that fountain a LOT Rosie. I might steal that idea from ya. Dahmer loves running water.


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## maherwoman (Dec 15, 2007)

Ok...I kinda gasped when I read your note (SeniorCats) that said that some bottled water still doesn't have the fluoride removed...but Danny bought reverse-osmosis kind of water. He made SURE that it didn't have fluoride (he's S-M-R-T ), so we're good. Thank you SO MUCH for letting me know, though. 

Thank you okiron for your love and support. 

It's funny...we've been wanting to get that fountain for a long time now...and now we have an excuse! 

You guys have all been so wonderful...you kept me hangin' onto hope!

And yes, SeniorCats...he sure was in survival mode when he got home...he only just relaxed about an hour ago...poor guy was SO on-edge...

But...he's doing great...and Sunny'll come around (she's still opting for Em's room over common space with him, so we set her up with the bottled water, some food, and her own box, so she won't be without what she needs). One thing about my babies...they're litter siblings that have never spent more than 12hrs away from each other. They have a real NEED for one another, so she'll come around. I venture to guess we'll have them reacquainted with one another by the time we go to bed. 

Hugs!

Rosie*


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## JadeIcing (Dec 16, 2007)

How are they?


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## Bassetluv (Dec 16, 2007)

I'm so glad to hear Hobbes is safe and sound back home, Rosie! Any idea when they will have results of his tests?


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## maherwoman (Dec 16, 2007)

ALI...Sunny had to spend last night in the bathroom. She's still freaked out about Hobbes not smellin' like Hobbes. Cats are funny that way...she's got the confusion of her brother being away for a night (which has only happened twice before...when both of them got altered...Hobbes at four months, and Sunny at six months...so she doesn't remember, most likely), and this kitty coming back that LOOKS like Hobbes, ACTS a bit like him (still calming down from the experience of being in alert mode that whole night), but SMELLS like a thousand other animals AND people. So, she's probably of the mindset that we took her brother away and brought in an imposter of some form. 

I tried to hold her (which she loves...I used to cart her around in the front pocket of my overalls as a TINY baby kitty) and bring her out here. She seemed to be okay...until I sat down on the couch and put her hind feet ON my lap (she's heavy...kinda hard to hold her for more than ten minutes). She had been sorta growling as I held her fully...but once I put her down, she started a bit of kitty screamyness, and hissing...

I looked at her, to hopefully calm her down, and she smacked me in the face (claws were out, until she realized she'd hit human skin...then retracted them RIGHT away...lucky I trim their claws, or I would have scratches across my forehead right now), and it shocked me so much, I put her back in the back room. Wow...it was a pretty intense situation...and I needed some time for my own adrenaline to calm down.

Bottom line: she's VERY VERY scared...this is horribly scary for her, and the way kitties respond to fear is to FIGHT whatever's around, tooth and nail. She's a very calm, lovey-dovey girl...but when scared, she turns into a chainsaw with fur like buns can! (You should hear her scream when I tried to syringe her those antibiotics after her spay surgery...OH MY!)

Anyway, it'll take time...and a THOROUGH cleaning of all the surfaces Hobbes touched when he first came home. I'm pretty sure he's almost completely bathed away the foreign smells...but she can still smell it in the carrier he came home in (I haven't had a spare amount of time to clean it...I've been watching Hobbes and caring for him), so it'll take some cleaning of the floor and that carrier...which will happen here shortly.

As far as Hobbes...he's doing fine...MUCH improved, though still cried in the litterbox earlier...so still some progress to be made (obviously). He has this NICE vanilla smell about him. I keep calling him my big ol' ice cream kitty.  (If you put a dab of natural vanilla extract on the back of the neck of a kitty, it helps to neutralize the smells they carried home from the vet's...I put a dab on each kitty...so they smell YUMMY!)


Bassetluv...the vet said it would take a few days...so we should know around Tuesday. But I venture to guess that he does indeed have an infection, as the antibiotics have helped TREMENDOUSLY already. 

He's no longer licking his "ya knows" as frequently as he did before...he's no longer inappropriately peeing...that I've found...he's pretty sneaky, so ya never know, but it's not OBVIOUS. The day we took him in, he was peeing in places right near me, while looking at me...and he hasn't been doing that, so that's a good indicator. He does mew every now and then as he goes around the house, but I believe it's because he wants Sunny.

So, there ya go! Updates! 

Thanks for asking, guys...it's nice to know we're thought of. This is taking a lot of my energy, as when one of my kids (or my husband) is sick, I give them every ounce of energy I've got. Danny took me out to eat last night, and we took Em to see Alvin and the Chipmunks (which made her squeal, hehe), and we had to put Sunny in the back of the house while gone...but it was nice to get out of the house and do something fun. 

Hugs!

Rosie*


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## Bassetluv (Dec 16, 2007)

> He's no longer licking his "ya knows" as frequently as he did before...he's no longer inappropriately peeing...that I've found...he's pretty sneaky, so ya never know, but it's not OBVIOUS. The day we took him in, he was peeing in places right near me, while looking at me...and he hasn't been doing that, so that's a good indicator. He does mew every now and then as he goes around the house, but I believe it's because he wants Sunny.



Oh, I'm so glad to hear that! Sounds like Hobbes is on his way to a full recovery (still crossing fingers, toes, and paws here though...until he is totally back to himself). ray:

(Every time I see a pic of your dear Hobbes I'm reminded of my Tiger, who I lost several years ago. I know, I mentioned it before...but really, they could've been twins...wish I had a digital photo of him, I'd show you. )

And I'm glad to hear you got out and had a fun evening Rosie! And that Em enjoyed the movie! (LOL...I love it when kids are having so much fun they squeal. :biggrin2


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## maherwoman (Dec 16, 2007)

Aww...well, I'm happy that Tiger lives on in my boy. What was Tiger like (if you don't mind my asking...I don't want to make you sad...)?

YES...Em was so cute...she laughed SO HARD through the movie, hehe!

And it was so nice to get some fresh air...

I'm proud of my kitties...I just opened the hallway door (that separates the front, where Hobbes has been, and the back where Sunny's been), and he keeps venturing into her "turf"...so I know it's just a matter of time until the situation gets handled. They have a STRONG need for one another, being litter siblings, and never leaving one another's side. They have a stronger bond than any other kitties I've ever seen, so I know it'll work out and their need for each other will override Sunny's fear.

Things are happening now, though! She's come up to him and growled to remind him she's the Alpha Kitty...and he just laid there, thumping his tail in agreement...but she's come up to HIM twice, which is WONDERFUL!

Gotta go! Things a-happenin' with the kitties!


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## Bassetluv (Dec 16, 2007)

> Things are happening now, though! She's come up to him and growled to remind him she's the Alpha Kitty...and he just laid there, thumping his tail in agreement...but she's come up to HIM twice, which is WONDERFUL!




Sounds like they'll soon be back to normal...it's not taking them long at all to adjust! 

Tiger was a big (just slightly overweight) mackerel tabby with a white bib on his chest, and a white blaze, white nose, white toesies on the front and long white kneesocks on the back.  He was extremely docile and tended to live 'in the background', never one to demand attention or complain. I purchased him as a tiny kitten from a pet shop to keep my longtime cat, Snooch, company. And I never thought I'd grow all that attached to Tiger at first, but he managed to fanagle his way into my heart. He was the peacemaker of the family...if my son and I had a disagreement and one (or both) of us raised our voice - not shouting, just getting upset - within moments Tiger would come running into the room. He'd plant himself at our feet and cry, looking at both of us, asking us to please stop arguing and get along nicely. It took me several times before I actually noticed he was doing this, and once I did it just melted my heart. (LOL...sometimes my son and I would turn on some music and sing/dance loudly, and Tiger would do the same thing...so I guess he was part artistic critique as well.) Then I began to notice that if the dog was barking and upsetting Snooch, Tiger would rush in and start meowing loudly. If Kaya still barked, Tiger would go to plan B...he'd get behind Kaya, grab one of her hind legs and nip, then dash off quickly. He absolutely hated quarrels of any kind, be they human or animal, and did whatever he could to intervene.

When Snooch passed away from cancer, Tiger was beyond himself with grief. He paced the apartment for 3 days and nights, calling out for his friend. It tore at me because not only was I mourning Snooch, a cat who was not unlike Raph to me...very close...but I could do nothing to ease Tiger's pain, or explain to him why his best friend had to leave. Eventually, as we all do, he did let go of the mourning, and whenever a new animal came into our home, Tiger was the first to greet them...never once did I see him hiss or get upset with a newcomer. He was an extremely amiable soul.

Tiger passed away several years ago after we discovered he had a cancerous tumor on his lower jaw. The vet removed it, but it grew back within a couple of months, and his health went downhill extremely rapidly. I kept him home for as long as I could before finally deciding he'd had enough, and took him to be euthanized. Surprisingly, though Tiger had bonded closely with my little cat Tasha (who came into our lives a couple of years after Snooch passed away), it wasn't Tasha who came to his side when he was ailing. It was my dog Kaya. She doesn't really care for cats (so she likes to pretend), but when Tiger was sick and could barely get out of his bed, Kaya would go over and lie down beside him, or walk up to him, smell his head and wag her tail. Funny how animals are; you just don't know sometimes how close they can be to one another until they're separated, or one becomes ill.

Anyway, that was Tiger...some day I'll get a photo of him scanned to show you Rosie. For a cat from a pet shop who no one thought was 'anything special', he certainly was.

Bless your Hobbes, Rosie...he's such a sweet boy, and I'm so glad he's beginning to feel better...:hug:


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## maherwoman (Dec 16, 2007)

OH WOW!! Tiger sounds SO MUCH like Hobbes...he does the same thing...settles arguments. He's definitely our caring, there-when-you-cry boy. He'll sit there and look as adorable as possible, and cry til you pet him if you're crying or upset. And he'll do the same thing of crying until you stop arguing. It's so sweet!

So...update: They got SO CLOSE to sniffing noses successfully a moment ago! :biggrin2: I'm so excited...they're SO CLOSE to being rebonded...it's so neat! I love my babies...

Things are happening so nicely, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they were bonded again by the time we go to bed. Poor kitties won't have to be separate again...


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## maherwoman (Dec 16, 2007)

*GASP*

Hobbes just went into Sunny's house in Em's room (house built by blankets by Em), and Sunny didn't hiss or growl!

He was only in a short time, and they didn't sniff noses or anything...but the fact that she let him in such a small space, and didn't growl or hiss...that's HUGE!!

They'll be just fine in NO TIME...I'm so happy!


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## seniorcats (Dec 17, 2007)

Where's today's kitty report? Do I have to fly out on my broomstick to check in person? :biggrin2::hbunnysmell::time:


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## Bassetluv (Dec 17, 2007)

*seniorcats wrote: *


> Where's today's kitty report? Do I have to fly out on my broomstick to check in person? :biggrin2::hbunnysmell::time:




*chuckles @ seniorcats* :yeahthat:


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## maherwoman (Dec 17, 2007)

Well, things are progressing with the kitties...

Today they sniffed noses...but haven't progressed to bathing each other. Last night, we let them both in the livingroom together...but Sunny would still hiss now and then and growl (especially when Hobbes would jump onto the bed with her already there).

Haven't heard much growling today...I hope things continue to improve! 

Hobbes is still licking his "ya knows" now and then, and still cries occasionally after being in the litterbox...but he's doing better...and those things are getting less frequent.


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## Bassetluv (Dec 17, 2007)

Rosie, I think you should have a talk with Sonny and remind her that if she doesn't stop hissing, then Santakitty isn't going to be very good to her, and Hobbes will get more in his stocking than her. That should bring the two of them together again quickly! 

Glad to hear things are continuing to progress!


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## maherwoman (Dec 17, 2007)

Ya know, Bassetluv...that's a GREAT idea! I'm gonna have a talk with that stinky little girl. (Actually, they both smell quite nice, with the natural vanilla extract on them...ice cream kitties!! )

Here's hoping they make up soon! 

I can't wait to see them bathe each other again...it's so cute! :biggrin2:


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## maherwoman (Dec 18, 2007)

UPDATE AND GREAT NEWS!!

I wanted to let ya'll know...just a bit ago, I went into Em's room, and there on the bed were my babies...laying together like nothing had even happened! All snuggled and happy!

YAYY!!!

So, they're officially rebonded...and the world is good again.


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## maherwoman (Dec 26, 2007)

Well, not so happy update, guys...

It's been about 48hrs since Hobbes' final dose of the antibiotics, and he's right back where we started. Still inappropriately peeing (peed on Em's brand new Spiderman shirts she got for Christmas...she's REALLY upset), going to the box frequently, and crying around the house.

I've called the place we took him to see if the dr would just go ahead and okay stronger antibiotics to try to kick this. We bought them a Drinkwell fountain on Christmas Eve, so they've had that for a few days now...but Hobbes had been sticking to the other water bowl...so we took that one away to see if he would just go to the fountain, but I have yet to see him drink from it. I'll be watching carefully to see about that. He didn't cry for water all night, so I'm assuming he drank while we were asleep (the level's down by about the amount it goes down each night with both drinking). 

UGH!!

Oh, and the urine tests came back as negative on bacteria (though they also said that bacteria might just not have GROWN...whatever that means), but that he has VERY concentrated urine...in fact, she said it was more concentrated than they had ever seen before. Not sure what that means, exactly...but ok. She said that due to no bacteria having grown, it was most likely cystitis (meaning, just the general term for a urinary issue).

So, I've called to ask for a stronger antibiotic...just waiting to hear back...feelin' bad for my baby boy again...


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## m.e. (Dec 26, 2007)

*maherwoman wrote: *


> Oh, and the urine tests came back as negative on bacteria (though they also said that bacteria might just not have GROWN...whatever that means), but that he has VERY concentrated urine...in fact, she said it was more concentrated than they had ever seen before. Not sure what that means, exactly...but ok. She said that due to no bacteria having grown, it was most likely cystitis (meaning, just the general term for a urinary issue).
> 
> So, I've called to ask for a stronger antibiotic...just waiting to hear back...feelin' bad for my baby boy again...



Rosie, I'm sorry to hear that Hobbes isn't well :hug: 

I was in your place almost two years ago with *three* of our cats, and I know the frustration of not finding a solution and the ache of seeing your baby (or babies) sick and just wanting them to be better. When they were in the hospital I could think of nothing else but wanting them home again.

I really hope that the antibiotics do the trick. We tried upping the antibiotics with the girls; it had a short-term effect because antibiotics also act as mild anti-inflammatories. But once the antibiotics stopped, they were sick again. We tried steroids, also as an anti-inflammatory; they peed constantly but didn't get better :? Their urinalyses showed no real bacterial growth (at least nothing outside the ordinary) and no crystallization. Their bladders were simply inflammed without any evident cause and after awhile I became concerned about the effects that antibiotics were having on their guts and on the other healthy, needed bacteria in their bodies. We exhausted literally every possibility that our vet suggested, save one: a prescription diet. I decided to feed them a raw diet instead and the results were nothing short of *astounding*. I know I've told that story here before, so I won't belabor the point.

I really do hope that Hobbes gets better. I know you're a good kitty mom and that you won't stop looking for the answers:hearts


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## maherwoman (Dec 26, 2007)

Hmm...a raw diet...can you PM me what that entails, what it's about?

I'm going to try the stronger antibiotics...and see how that goes before changing his diet just yet. He's on a really good food...and I worry about him actually EATING a raw diet. (Never know, I guess...)

Both kitties have particular aversions to wanting to eat anything wet. And we've tried the whole range of wet foods, too. It's really frustrating.

Oh, and along with the fountain, we're also giving them reversed osmosis drinking water...so they are no longer getting fluoride-added water. (Giving it to the buns, too.)

Ugh...this is so frustrating...he's back to roaming the house constantly to find somewhere to pee...my poor sweet boy...


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## Leaf (Dec 26, 2007)

*maherwoman wrote: *


> Hmm...a raw diet...






I really like this website, as it tends to wrap up many informative links:

http://www.diamondpaws.com/health/barf.htm

......

http://touchmoon.com/dotters/raw/index.shtml
http://www.diamondpaws.com/health/barfveg.htm
http://www.barfers.com/
http://www.barfers.com/barf.html
http://www.barfers.com/barflists.html
http://www.bravorawdiet.com/
http://www.lepus.reach.net/NRS.html
http://www.puppycentral.net/Links/foods.html
http://www.k9rawdiet.com/rawlinks.htm
http://www.bpmurphy.com/laura/DogRoom/BARF/barf_suppliers.htm
http://www.geocities.com/sue_delaney/rmb.htm
http://www.switchingtoraw.com/
http://www.diamondpaws.com/health/barf.htm


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BARFNE/




Follow these links for more information: 
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Flats/7244/diet.html 
http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/riverien/nutritogether.htm

Good introductory page 
http://www.wholedane.com 

http://www.barfworld.com/sneak_preview/index.html 
http://www.naturalrearing.com 
http://www.listservice.net/wellpet/wpfaq.htm 
http://www.jps.net/punchie/barf.htm 
http://www.auntjeni.com/barf.htm 
http://www.healthierpets.com/ 
http://www.sentex.net/~sirius/nutro001.htm 
http://www.skansen.com/ 
http://wholedane.tripod.com/barf.html 
http://siriusdog.com/nutro001.htm 
http://members.aol.com/abywood/www/risk_rcw.htm 
http://members.aol.com/addieloo/index.html 


Barfworld- Ian Billinghurst http://www.barfworld.com/main.shtml 

Ian Billinghurst- http://www.drianbillinghurst.com/ 

Kymythy Schultze- The Ultimate Diet http://home.earthlink.net/~affenbar/ 

Pierce Grinder- http://www.piercechefmart.com/Merchant/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PCM00199&Product_Code=1150276386 

Pottenger's Cats-(scientific article about raw feeding of cats)
http://www.price-pottenger.org/Articles/PottsCats.html

BARF for cats- http://www.felinefuture.com/ 

Purveyor's Search- finding some food sources in your area - http://www.ipindex.com/IPI%20Folder/Header%20Index%20.html 

.......


Very nice vitamin and nutrition breakdown:

http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/3023/barf.html 

.......

Here's another one I like:

http://b-naturals.com/Feb2003.php


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## maherwoman (Dec 26, 2007)

Thank you, Jessica!

Checking all those out right now.


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## Leaf (Dec 26, 2007)

I can probably find more cat info if I tried but it mayy take a while. 



Some of those links were the best ones given to me when I adopted a 4 month old Vizsla/Dobie. He had horrid stomach problems (kibble food could literally go through him in 15 minutes, becoming smelly soup on my new carpet)

I haven't checked the all in a while, but if anything I recommend getting the books by Ian Billinghurst.


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## m.e. (Dec 26, 2007)

I follow the recipe from this site:

http://catinfo.org/

The cats went from near-constant urinary problems to absolutely *none* once I switched them over. I don't have time at the moment, but the next chance I get I'll post or pm you with more about their transition from wet/dry to raw.


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## maherwoman (Dec 26, 2007)

Ok, great! Thanks for the site, m.e. I'm going to check that out, and see what I can find.

Do you think it'll be a smoother transition for them if I mixed their dry food with the wet? The thing I encounter with our cats is the fact that they flat REFUSE to eat wet food. 

Any suggestions on a good quality canned food that goes along with the raw diet requirements?


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## Pipp (Dec 26, 2007)

Rosie, been there, done that... 

And the only fix WAS the diet. 

I spent a year trying to figure out the problem myself (after four vets), read aboutfood allergies,and another year latersomebody who said their cat was allergic to fish, tried cutting that out of her diet, and bingo. (It is TOUGH trying to find any fish-free cat food, many have fish meal as a minor ingredient).

There is still another ingredient she has a sensitivity to, but can't quite figure out what it is other than it's in dry food (maybe a grain?), so as long as I stick to wet food, no problem. 

Wet food is strongly recommended, anyway. If you can get a fish and grain free food like Wellness Turkey, might be the ticket, although Hobbes may have a different sensitivity. 

My cat hated the vet stuff, and it was ridiculously expensive, but if Hobbes likes it, that also would be afix.

I didn't go the raw food route because of price and availability in my area -- after M.E.'s experience, I tried to find a fish-free supplyand couldn't -- but I would guess that would be a fix as well. 

Good luck! 



sas :clover:


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## seniorcats (Dec 26, 2007)

Oh no! I am so sorry to hear your boy is feeling bad again. Everyone is spot one with the diet information. I would love to try the raw diet here but with 16 cats to feed (and #17 hanging out in the barn) I think my DH would go crazy and take me with him. Emily mentioned in one of her raw posts some time ago that her cats teeth and gums are very healthy. That would be one of my main reasons for switching. We had dentals on 7 cats last year to the tune of $200 to $300 each -eeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Did the vet put him on a diet//food that adds an acidifier? I believe that is usually done for cystitis. There are some dry foods that contain acidifiers. Perhaps water could be added to that? 

You already know, he needs to get more water in him. Concentrated urine just means it is less dilute. It can come from dehydration or insufficient water intake. Have you ever been sick with a fever or virus, gotten dehydratedand peed really dark? That's concentrated urine.Usually cats with chronic renal failure have the opposite problem and they cannot concentrate their urine so toxicities build up. In either case, subq's usually help.

Water - can't remember if I mentioned this before (CRS-can't remember stuff) but some cats like to have a water bowl away from their food. It may look funny but I keep an extra water bowl in the living room. Actually it's behind a chair. We find ourselves filling it much more frequently than the bowl that's by their food. Sometimes they will drain the bowl in the living room dry. Also, the cats will jump the bunny gate and go in bunnyland to drink water from the bunny bowl.

Tell your Em I am so sorry Hobbes peed on her new clothes. Poor boy, it's just his way of making sure you know he is sick. A little white vinegar in the wash water should remove all problems.

Hugs to you, Em and the kitties.

Ann

PS forgot to add, did the vet check for any dental problems? Sometimes a bad mouth can cause systemic bacteria and the cat gets cystitis. I know it sounds strange for one 'end' to affect the other but we had it happen with 2 of ours. A dental cleaning and removing some bad teeth stopped the urinary problems.

And another thing - SAS's post, fish is usually a culprit. We try and avoid it with our cats.

SAS -wheat could be the other problem with your cat. We've had a few at the shelter who have gluten//wheat issues and absolutely have to avoid it. Thee are some gluten//wheat free dry cat foods available. Pure Gold? Something like that...I can check this weekend at the shelter and let you know.


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## undergunfire (Dec 27, 2007)

How about Wellness brand? It is a high quality brand, and I have heard great things about it for the dogs & rats that eat the dog food. I have not heard anything about the cat food because I am not into cats all that much. It is very high quality, though.


http://www.omhpet.com/wellness/cat_wellness_dry_indoor_health.html


Here is a supplement for cats that might help:
http://www.omhpet.com/wellness/cat_wellness_supplements_welltabs_cat_formula.html





Rosie....are you asking around on a cat forum at all?


*
EDIT TO ADD:* check out this site, I LOOOVE it for treats for the rats. There is some raw diet stuff on there, too!
http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/default.aspx


*
EDIT TO ADD, AGAIN:* I am pretty sure this food is grain-free AND fish free :
http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Natural-Balance-Green-Pea-Duck-Dry-Cat-Food/158129.aspx


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## maherwoman (Dec 27, 2007)

Thank you so much for your advice! 

*Sas*...I'll ask about that...sensitivities. The only thing that puzzles me (and not to invalidate your advice) is the fact that they've had this food for about a year now, and he's JUST NOW showing problems. Would it take that long for something to show up? There haven't been any other dietary changes, and when we switched them, it was gradually.

*Ann*...I'm going to print out what you said and take it with me. I'm also going to be SURE that our normal vet is experienced in handling (fully) this issue...to be sure that he'll get the help he needs.

*Amy*...Yep, been asking on a cat forum. I've had a thread going on about his health...and just created a new one asking for advice this time around. Thanks for the idea! 

Thanks for your help and ideas, guys!


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## Bo B Bunny (Dec 27, 2007)

This is so sad! I am sorry about Hobbes!

I'm curious and hope you don't mind me asking here, Rosie, but has anyone heard of cats having ear swelling from allergies? Tank does and we have not found a food he isn't allergic to at some small level at the very least! We manage to keep his symptoms to nearly nothing most of the time. 

Also, he had the cystitus with crystals.... he's good now but does have bouts of peeing problems (like just crying like he's passing a crystal or something?)

I wonder if he would do better on a raw diet....... he's allergic to beef and hates duck and pea food..... we think chicken works but turkey sends him into ear digging and crying.

NOTE: I just about died when I read that they feed raw rabbit on one of those sites!!


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## m.e. (Dec 27, 2007)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> I'm curious and hope you don't mind me asking here, Rosie, but has anyone heard of cats having ear swelling from allergies? Tank does and we have not found a food he isn't allergic to at some small level at the very least! We manage to keep his symptoms to nearly nothing most of the time.



Well, our dogs ears would swell horribly when his allergies flared up. I assume the same could be said for cats :hug: His problems were also dietary and he had to be put on a special food. I regret not trying him on a raw diet, because aside from the whole 'raw' aspect, the best part of a homemade food is that you know *exactly* what goes into it. And when you're trying to pinpoint an allergy, it can be a nightmare to figure out which ingredient in what food is causing the problem.


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## m.e. (Dec 27, 2007)

*maherwoman wrote: *


> *Sas*...I'll ask about that...sensitivities. The only thing that puzzles me (and not to invalidate your advice) is the fact that they've had this food for about a year now, and he's JUST NOW showing problems. Would it take that long for something to show up? There haven't been any other dietary changes, and when we switched them, it was gradually.




Just look at human allergies: people can be fine for years and years, and then one day develop a sensitivity or even a severe allergy to a certain food. The body has a limited tolerance and often can only handle so much exposure before reacting. Our cats had been eating the same food for well over a year before they started having problems (and then we tried _everything_ from Wellness to EVO to  Merrick)


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## Bo B Bunny (Dec 27, 2007)

That's so true about humans! and for years and years we didn't know what was going on cause I would get stomach cramps and even vomit if I ate fish of any kind!

Amazing to find out one day my throat was closing, my face was swelling......... yep allergic to seafood!!!


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## seniorcats (Dec 27, 2007)

*m.e. wrote: *


> *maherwoman wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *Sas*...I'll ask about that...sensitivities. The only thing that puzzles me (and not to invalidate your advice) is the fact that they've had this food for about a year now, and he's JUST NOW showing problems. Would it take that long for something to show up? There haven't been any other dietary changes, and when we switched them, it was gradually.
> ...



Oh absolutely. I never had a problem with poison ivy. Used to roll in it as a kid, gardened with no gloves, then one day I had a horrible reaction and that has continued.

Also, I developed allergies in my 20's, got multiple shots every other week, etc. After 2 years, the allergies just went away. Sometime pollen will bother me a little bit but nothing like years ago. Some of it could be because I have Graves' disease, an autoimmume disease so my immune system is always out of whack.


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## nermal71 (Dec 27, 2007)

Here is something that happened several years ago with our oldest cat. He got a severe UTI. Pee'd all over the house. We took him they gave him meds he was doing better. About a week later back to the same problem. They told me to buy a brand new box fill it with clean litter and put it in a different spot. It stopped it. Turns out he associated that box in that spot iwth pain and wouldnt go there. The new spot and box were not a painful thing to him. Maybe this will help you.


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## MsBinky (Dec 27, 2007)

:hug:to you and Hobbes, and also to Em who was upset about her sweaters.

I'm keeping an eye on this thread and looking forward to an update on the lil guy. I know he will be fine because you caught it so early. But I still hope he gets better soon, I don't like knowing any of your babies are unwell.


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## MsBinky (Dec 27, 2007)

Just wanted to say that I too have been considering the raw diet. Waiting for MrBinky's input on that since it is "his" cat...


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## maherwoman (Dec 27, 2007)

Wow...yeah, good point about allergies that pop up later on in life. Its so odd, isn't it?

I'll be calling their regular vet today to see if they have any skills in treating/handling cystitis and if they do, we'll take him there when they have the next appt open...if not, we'll find someone who does. Basically, I'd like some hands-on guidance in his dietary stuff from this point on.

Hugs and thanks to you guys for all your support through this. It's so hard going through it when both kitties have been perfectly healthy all their lives. They're going to be four in a few months (30 Apr), so going for that long without any problems, and then suddenly having HUGE problems...well, it's taking a lot out of me. So, keep all of us in your prayers, ok?

Hugs to everyone!

Rosie*

Edited to add: No worries...my kitties will NEVER get ANY food that has bun in it...:grumpy:


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## naturestee (Dec 27, 2007)

Hugs to you and Hobbes!

I don't have much to add, just wanted to say that a good fish-free dry food is California Natural Chicken & Rice. The canned version does have some fish, as do their other formulas including the canned venison. It's less expensive than Wellness and easier for me to find. One thing I've noticed is that many pet stores have more brands of dog food than cat food. If you notice a particular brand you like in the dog food section, they should be able to order the cat food for you from the same supplier.

Also, Nutro Max Cat Roasted Chicken and Nutro Natural Choice Adult do not contain fish. I'm actually feeding the Natural Choice right now, so far that and the California Natural both work good for Lily's sensitive stomach and Eve seems to have nicer fur on Nutro.


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## seniorcats (Dec 27, 2007)

'Channeling' your kitties and sending good thoughts.

This has some interesting info from cat owners who have treated cystitis. Think I'll make a copy for my cat notebook.

http://www.thriftyfun.com/tf559623.tip.html


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## Bassetluv (Dec 29, 2007)

Adding some more hugs for Mr. Hobbes to be feeling better soon, Rosie hug2.

One of my kitties is also not well, and I had to take her to the vet's today for bloodtests. The vet suspects it could be thyroid problems or irritable bowel, though at this point anything is possible. She also said that food allergies might be a culprit, and they can build up over time. Tasha's had chronic diarrhea for the past looooonnnng while, and it's recently gotten worse. Poor little girl is almost 15, and she only weighs 5 lbs. as she has lost a lot of body weight. Am constantly cleaning up after her -- and getting peeved at Yofi, as twice he's decided to play in the litter box before I could catch him. (Picture one stubborn bunny playing gleefully in litter, and getting much more than he bargained for on his feet....ew ew ew ew!!!!!!)

It's no fun having a sick kitty (or sick any pet)! May they find the exact cause for Hobbes soon, so he can be back to his regular self again. :hug:


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## maherwoman (Dec 29, 2007)

Hobbes has his appt with our regular vet tomorrow afternoon.

He started vomitting off and on yesterday, continuing to today...so please pray for him that he's okay. His cystitis symptoms have actually improved over the past few days, so I think the fountain is helping. 

Hugs for your kitties...and please continue to pray for Hobbes...


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## Bassetluv (Dec 29, 2007)

*maherwoman wrote: *


> Hobbes has his appt with our regular vet tomorrow afternoon.
> 
> He started vomitting off and on yesterday, continuing to today...so please pray for him that he's okay.



aaaww ... Hobbes ... 

ray:ray:ray:ray:

Praying for the absolute best outcome for Hobbes....:hearts


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## maherwoman (Dec 29, 2007)

Ok...back from the vet (have been for a bit now, had to eat, let Hobbes settle, etc.)...

The vet said he looks really good. His symptoms have been drastically improving over the last few days, which is wonderful (and I let her know that). And, from that, she said he's in the clear, and is doing good.

She said that she could recommend a dietary change, but given the amount of stress in the house at the time he started having problems, she said that she really thinks it was just a reaction to the stress. He's very strongly bonded with we humans, and saw us freaking out in general, and I think it affected him rather strongly.

I told her that we bought them a Drinkwell fountain and that seemed to also help...and she honestly thought that was enough. She said we could consider changing his food to Innova's EVO dry food, if we wanted to add more protein, but that in his case, it wasn't VITAL. She understood about them never wanting wet food of any kind (they won't even eat giblets or bacon, guys, hehe), and said that since he's improving on his own, it's not necessary to have to switch them.

So, there ya go! He was SO calm on the way home...and this is the cat that YOWLS the whole way!! I think he was just happy that he didn't have to stay there at all, much less overnight. And I think he was more content because I was calmer in general.

It's nice to know that my babies are okay...*sigh*


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## Bo B Bunny (Dec 29, 2007)

GREAT NEWS!!!!


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## okiron (Dec 29, 2007)

Yay Hobbes!!! I'm so glad he's getting better.

I have been trying to find Innova everywhere and can't seem to find diddly squat!


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## undergunfire (Dec 30, 2007)

That is great news!

Innova Evo is excellent food, a bit pricey....but well worth it! I can get it from my local grain store.


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## spoh (Dec 30, 2007)

Wonderful New! I hope he continues to improve!

Joy


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