# Questions about breeding bonded rabbits



## tashiahouse (Jul 13, 2010)

I got two bonded Hollands for my birthday. I was told they were both bucks...come to find out, they're both does. I should clarify that there was no bonding process..they were just raised together from day one (sisters). My questions are...would you breed them?, would you use one nesting box, or two?, and would you separate them or leave them in one cage? They appear to adore each other. They spend most of their days grooming each other. Basically, my main concern is would the breeding process be so stressful on them that they wouldn't be able to be re bonded or should they be okay? I have 0 experience breeding bonded rabbits.


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## lelanatty (Jul 13, 2010)

That is a very interesting situation. I have friend who got two Jersey Woolies who were sisters and bonded just like that. They couldn't stand to be out of each others sight. Coming from someone who also has 0 experience breeding bonded rabbits, I would give it a try. I would most definitely use two nestboxes, and I also would definitely separate them into two different cages, but put their cages right next to each other so that they still have contact. I believe that is what my friend is doing with her two now. I am not sure of her success rate though as it has been a while since I have seen her. It would also probably be best if you separate them before you breed them, so that they get used to one change at a time and the stress from being separated during pregnancy doesn't cause them to have litter complications-- which it may do that anyway.

So there is my very humble opinion.


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## Yield (Jul 13, 2010)

I have never heard of this before! That's a crazy situation you got there.. In my opinion, I would be kind of afraid that one bun might mess with the other's litter, or they might become overprotective and fight.. but I don't know. I'm not an expert... I wish you luck, and I hope someone more experienced comes along and tells what they think.


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## Sabine (Jul 13, 2010)

My two breeding does ended up bonding after they had settled and I kept them in the same cage even when they were bred. There was no problem whatsoever. They seemed to be joined at the hip and I couldn't face separating them. After the first one kindled I noticed that she started mounting the other one (still pregnant). I took it as a sign and separated them at that stage. I have tried to rebond them since and they absolutely hate each other. They unbonded within a few days.
Basically if you are hoping to rebond them after it may not go as smoothly. Best is watch their behaviour carefully if you notice any change in the dynamics.


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## countrybuns (Jul 15, 2010)

I would say that it depends on how much you care if they stay bonded. If you are interested in keeping the bond strong breeding could mess with that but if seperating them (should it be needed)isn't an issue then go for it.


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## Shaded Night Rabbitry (Jul 15, 2010)

Two nest boxes... It's colony breeding, in a sense. There's actually three or four people on another site I'm on that swear by it. I'll PM you, so I'm not outwardly advertising...

They'd probably be quite the help, since they've been into it for quite some time. 8D


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## TinysMom (Jul 15, 2010)

*Shaded Night Rabbitry wrote: *


> Two nest boxes... It's colony breeding, in a sense. There's actually three or four people on another site I'm on that swear by it. I'll PM you, so I'm not outwardly advertising...
> 
> They'd probably be quite the help, since they've been into it for quite some time. 8D


I don't suppose you could get them to come here and share about it. I find the topic quite fascinating...

I once had two does that shared a cage - one got pregnant - the other one didn't take.

The mama would feed her babies and go off to play (when I had them in more of a colony setting) - and the other doe would sit there and guard the babies. Both does got along fine...

I forget why the babies died - I think they were really small to begin with so I knew there was a chance they wouldn't make it.

But those babies would've had two loving mamas.....even if only one nursed.


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## TinysMom (Jul 15, 2010)

*Yield wrote: *


> I have never heard of this before! That's a crazy situation you got there.. In my opinion, I would be kind of afraid that one bun might mess with the other's litter, or they might become overprotective and fight.. but I don't know. I'm not an expert... I wish you luck, and I hope someone more experienced comes along and tells what they think.


I just remembered - a lionhead breeder friend did have this happen - the mom and daughter were bonded - she bred both - both had their babies together in their super huge cage in separate nest boxes and the babies grew up together. (She had marked in their ears which litter was which).


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## Shaded Night Rabbitry (Jul 15, 2010)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> *Shaded Night Rabbitry wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Two nest boxes... It's colony breeding, in a sense. There's actually three or four people on another site I'm on that swear by it. I'll PM you, so I'm not outwardly advertising...
> ...


I'll make a post about it on their forum, and see if they might be into it.


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## Anntann (Jul 15, 2010)

Greetings! I'm from the other forum, and thought I'd hop over and give you my take on this  i'll be brief to start, and if you have questions, go for it!

I have 4 angora does in an indoor 8'x8' colony. Three were raised together, and have never had problems (not siblings...just raised together). I had Chuck, my buck, in with them for 3 weeks...no problems...he just became one of the pack and they hung around together grooming each other. (and breeding)

3 weeks later I removed Chuck, and put in 2 nest "tunnels" plywood tunnels, 3' long by 1' square..opening on the end of one side; and 1 nest box.

They all chose the same tunnel as to kindle in! Two does kindled on Wed, 1 doe on Thursday morning. Three nests, but after a couple of days the kits were in one big nest. 

Mommas shared feeding duties....A doe would go in, and whoever was hungry got fed. I lost ONE out of 15 kits. (a runt who never had a chance).

Two of the does had kindled together last Fall...they were in a smaller shared pen at that time. 3x6. Filled up with straw and a couple of nest boxes. They shared a nestbox that time, too. Shared feeding duties. As I watched them over the first month (had a bunny cam watching them) CB (chocolate bunny) went in at approx 5am; then FLB at 10ish; then CB again at 4pmish; then FLB at 10pmish. They had 10 kits between them, all survived and were fat little things.


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## TinysMom (Jul 15, 2010)

Anntann,

This is absolutely fascinating. I have one question though - how were you able to tell whose kits belonged to which doe? I'm thinking for pedigree purposes, etc.

Were the does different colors or something?

This is so awesome....do you have photos?


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## Anntann (Jul 15, 2010)

THIS is a link to a photobucket album of various bunnies in the colony. And this is a link to the picture of the nesttunnels in the colony. There used to be some ceramic chimney tunnels in the colony for them to play on, run through. but the nest tunnels turned into a playground after the kits emerged. 

Telling the whose is whose. Difficult if you don't catch them early and check the nests, I think. So far I've been very lucky with the girls kindling almost while I watched. CB's kits are always HUGE. FLB's kits are usually longer in the body and may have white paws. Vienna is a blue tort and appears to throw a LOT of blue torts, and the kits are generally smaller than anyone else's. 

This last time I found the nests right away, and counted and noted down any colors that were apparent. Then I marked CBs kits with a dab of nail polish. Vienna's were all three blue tort and very small. 

It would probably be easier, if I was REALLY concerned about screwing up the pedigrees, by having the does visit the buck...and staggering the breedings. 

I did see in this last kindling that the 4th doe, who was NOT bred (she was out of the colony..I thought she was too young to breed at only 5 months)...when she was returned to the colony after Chuck left, she was integrated right away, and she became "auntie Hannah". Earlier, Vienna had not kindled in the Fall, and she was a long suffering Auntie Vienna. The kits would follow her around trying to nurse. :biggrin: She was very very patient with them...just hopping away and jumping up onto a tub to get away. 

Watching the rabbits interact is fascinating. They really enjoy grooming each other, and paling around. 

If both of your does are bred at the same time, I would probably give them the option of having 2 nest boxes. I do know that in outside colonies, where they can burrow, then make their own burrows...they might clean out an old burrow or re-use one..but I haven't heard of any sharing like I've had with this crew.


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## Anntann (Jul 15, 2010)

We have another member on our forum who has rabbits in an indoor (like horse stalls) colony on cement floors. She brings does to the buck, I think, and then provides nest tunnels for them to kindle in. 

There was another lady who has a huge number of rabbits in a full blown colony setup, under hoop tents, with a floor so they can't burrow out. LONG and narrow. She says that gives the rabbits the ability to run away from each other and get out of range of a rampaging mother!  She is not concerned with pedigrees, nor really with ages. I believe that her rabbits occasionally share a nest, too.


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## TinysMom (Jul 15, 2010)

I have got to say that this is so awesome - for about 2 years I had 30+ lionhead does and a couple of other does that lived together on the rabbitry floor. When I would breed them - I would usually put them in a cage shortly before delivery (except for one doe who delivered early - she's the one who shared a cage with another doe).

I had a shelf that cages sat on and they hung out under the shelves - in two dog kennels that had shelves and sometimes on empty cages that sat on the shelf (the bottom layer).

I loved it because the does had "best friends" and you'd see certain ones hang out together in different places during the day - and as soon as they heard us fill the food bucket - they'd go running to their feeding spots (which might be different than their playing spots sometimes).

It was so much fun to see them in a colony and watch the relationships and interactions. 

I miss it.

(Animal Control was called on us and that was the first thing that had to go). 

I will admit it was hard to keep the area clean and odor-free even with sweeping it every day or every other day....the girls just would poop EVERYWHERE. I don't miss that.

But it is so cool to see someone else doing this....it must be so much fun.


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## Sabine (Jul 16, 2010)

I am really fascinated by this topic and it's given me new ideas. I almost had two does kindle together in one cage but I chickened out after the first one had her litter. As they were my first two brood does I was very precious about them (still am) and I was just terrified by horrifying stories of babies getting mutilated etc...
I also believe ample space is the key to successful breeding in groups. At the time they were sharing a 4 ft hutch and although they are NDs I wasn't sure if that was enough for 2 does with their litters. Since I separated the two does one has gone very moody and is also not conceiving. I would really like her to have a companion again and maybe not separate the next time I breed.


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## Anntann (Jul 16, 2010)

I suspect that a LOT of problems are from crowding, and from the does not feeling secure in their setup. 

Most does in a colony will defend their burrows/tunnels quite vigorously. Usually they fill up the entrance with straw/hay/grass/whatever they can find..it keeps the kits IN and the predators OUT (well, not really out, but it hides the entrance)

With my girls I saw CB go in to kindle...and when she came out, she took a HUGE amount of hay/straw from the colony floor and stuffed it in the entrance. Then FLB went in to kindle..she dug a hole in the entrance plug, squeezed in, kindled, then refilled that entrance. The next day, Vienna did exactly the same thing.

They kept the very tip top of the pile open so they could go in and out to feed. When I opened the top of the box (the end of it is hinged to open so I can check the kits) all three does came over to me to watch what I was doing. Each TIME I opened it up. 

I think that if I had two does who were bonded, I would let them remain in the same large cage, with a large nestbox, and see how it goes. The stress of losing a bonded friend/mate might tip the scales when they kindle. How often have you heard not to move the expectant doe because she can lose the kits? Stress seems to be VERY hard on rabbits. Perhaps they react to stressors because they're prey animals..and need to be extra careful with ANY changes.


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## JadeIcing (Jul 16, 2010)

Just wanted to say having fun reading this thread.


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## Sabine (Jul 16, 2010)

I was lucky when I removed my doe from her bonded friend to kindle she had no problems but she rejected her babies by 6 weeks and has been moody ever since. Today I reintroduced her to her daughter who is on her own now as I sold her sister yesterday. It's going rather smoothly and I am getting the large 5 ft hutch organized for them to hopefully spend the night together. It would be great if they could have their next litters together.


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## bunnyranch (Jul 25, 2010)

I've never thought of it this way before. This is exactly what we do with our female rabbits. I'd like to post some pics upon the thread owners permission. I have 4 NZ does and one black unknown. We just call it, as a joke, free range bunnies .


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## TinysMom (Jul 25, 2010)

I'm not the thread owner -but as a moderator - I say "sure" - go for it.

We hijack threads all the time with photos and stuff and still have fun...plus it sounds like your photos would be on target and not even hijacking!


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## CiaraPatricia (Jul 25, 2010)

This is really interesting. 

I have two does (4.5 and 5 months almost) who have lived together since 7 and 9 weeks. They're best friends and love to groom each other. I plan to breed from them so feel awful that I'd have to serparate them. I was planning on trying to rebond them after their litters so they could live together all winter and whenever they weren't pregnant/nursing.

I was also thinking of trying to bond my other doe to them, so that for the winter they could all live together, having the run of the shed, instead of it being divided into three, but not sure if that'd work, because the other doe only knows them by living next door. Though they are all laid back friendly rabbits.

I would love for them to stay together when they had babies. But one of them, the older one, recently tried to attack a baby that managed to get into her cage! (from the doe next door). So I would be too scared I think . . .

I will definitely keep them next door and really hope they can rebond after . . . that way they'll get a cage twice as big and a friend to live with, which would be nice.

Though I haven't been able to find a buck for one of them, so I'm not sure I'll breed her, I might wait til the spring. 

Does anyone know what it'd be like if one had babies, if the other wasn't pregnant and they lived together? (and the mother of the babies would be the one who tried to attack another baby, the other doe was friendly to the baby).


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## bunnyranch (Jul 25, 2010)

OK :biggrin:. 

Here are the does in their rabbit shack, or so we call it. It's also known as the Bunny Ranch. In some of the photos you'll see the cages my husband made. We don't really use the cages unless we are going to be gone from the house for a really long time. We don't really leave to often but when we do I'd rather be safe than sorry. 






We keep the grass long around the outside run so that they feel safe. The bottom is galvanized chain link fencing covered by soil. Clover is planted out there.....only it gets eaten before it gets big enough . It was mad from completely recycled materials and the only cost we had from it was the mortar. It took about 1 week because it was 20-30 deg outside.





One long cage with separators. I'll admit that I did do a lot of the work myself during the late night. If you look at the back there is a hatch that is lifted up during hot days when they are in their cages. We have to go out there this evening to put wood on the sides of the cages because the rabbits are jumping on the ledge and hiding behind and on the sides. Silly girls . 





















I love these rabbit but the older 3 are mean! Well not mean just very scared and shy. We think it's cruel to leave them in separate cages. The last time they was in a cage was about a month ago when we went on vacation to TN. When we let them all out together it was like a big family reunion:biggrin2:. They have never fought or even showed signs of aggression towards each other. Just don't put a buck in there with them like I did today out they will attack! They ganged up on my poor Peter;




who is only 3 months old. I didn't think they would do that! His testicles haven't even dropped yet. 

Well there's my little group, well colony as I should call it now.

And I forgot to show you the Keeper of the Hares;




Meathead or viciously vicious pit bull rescue. He found the snake that killed my Mini Lop in my avatar.  He's my man. She happened to be a rescue also and my most favorite rabbit of all time. Her name was Gizzy. She passed last week.


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## Anntann (Jul 25, 2010)

Cool looking rabbitry  

About the 2 does, one kindling and one not: the first time out for the 3 does who were raised together, 2 kindled, the other one didn't take. Everything was fine. The 2 moms kindled in the same nest tunnel, the 3rd doe became "aunt Vienna". Once the kits started to come out she just ignored them. When they tried to nurse on her (we had one kit who was DETERMINED to be adopted by Vienna!) she'd just hop away from them quickly. After awhile they figured out she didn't have anything, and by thenthey were eating grass and hay...they turned into one big family. LOTS of playing.


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## bunnyranch (Jul 25, 2010)

Thanks . We are going to be turning our 660 sqft barn into a rabbitry with running water, insulation, and heater. That however is a job for fall time. I'm not good with the heat.


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## CoolWaterRabbitry (Jul 26, 2010)

This has been a very informative thread, as I have a feeling I will be dealing with the same issue of bonded rabbits with our Rhinelanders. Out of the 6 that we have, 2 of the does are sisters. When we purchased them they were together but after we put up a few more cages (we didn't have enough the day we brought all of them home since we didn't think we'd bring home a car load lol) we split them up as we didn't want them to start fighting and getting moody with one another.

_Well_ that didn't work out as the second we split them up they had a down right fit. So then we tried putting them in cages right next to each other. They still had a FIT. So now they're back to living together. They share a bowl, even though we have two in there; groom each other non stop, lay ontop of eachother, and can't sleep without leaning up against one another. 

Tis cute but thank's to this thread I'm not as worried about breeding time (if they do bond).


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## Jaded (Aug 12, 2010)

The bunnies should be fine if there that bonded, they would probaly share a nest box and look after each others kits, that would be cute!!


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