# First Show



## DharmaBuns (Sep 12, 2011)

Hello everyone!

I'll be heading to my first rabbit show on September 17th, and I am truly excited. I've put a few years of research and planning into this, so it's not something that I'm going in to on a whim. Unfortunately, I was never able to show through 4-h, so I'm going at the age of 25 trying to learn everything I possibly can.

I just recently got my first trio of rabbits. I decided on Tans, and after getting my 3 I am certain that it was the perfect choice for me, they are so gorgeous! 

What sort of advice would you give to someone who is showing for the first time? I plan on taking my does/buck just as a "practice" run. They're all in very good condition (that my untrained eye can tell) and the buck has 3 legs, and one of my does has 1 leg already. I really have no delusions of winning BIS, or even placing higher than last place, this is 100% a learning experience. However, I'd like to treat it as though it were a real show, and I just really don't want to do anything wrong, or make any BIG mistakes!
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## Korr_and_Sophie (Sep 12, 2011)

Fill out the entry form correctly and get it in on time. Arrive early. Some shows are day of entry, so you want to have enough time to do the entries and get set up before judging starts. Many shows do set up the night before, so see if that is an option for you especially if you have to travel to the show. Once you are entered and set up, check the judging schedule so you know when Tans are being judged, it could be first, last or on the middle. If there is more than one show going on at the same time, check each one as they will each have different times for each breed. 
Have your rabbits groomed and ready before you leave for the show. Trim nails, clean scent glands and brush them. If they have any urine stains or other stains, take care of those before you go.
Pay attention to what is going on during the show. This is good so you don't miss you class and so you can get a good idea of what is happening. When you go to set up, try to get a spot near the judging tables if you can. Some show have the rabbits in coops, so you don't really get a choice. Bring everything you need for your rabbits. This includes food, hay, water, dishes, bedding, grooming items, and whatever else you need. It is also good to take a light cloth to cover the carrier, some breeders also make signs to tell people to not poke into the carrier. Locks for the carriers are good too especially if you are leaving them overnight. Some shows don't provide tables, so you may want to take a small one to keep your rabbits off the floor.
Take stuff for you too. Food, drinks, a chair, something to do are all good. A blanket or jacket is good as some places are cooler especially if outside or in a large building or in the winter.

Basically, you want to make sure they are entered correctly, you arrive early, are ready to go and get your rabbit in the right class as the right time. Take them back when it is time and collect any awards if you get them. If one wins Best of Breed, they will go up for Best in Show as the end, so be prepared for that. When your rabbit are up on the table, don't let the judge know which are yours, it is supposed to be about the rabbit not who owns or bred them. If you are the only one with tans, there is not much you can do, but don't go pointing to one and say that is yours.
Try to find someone who is not too busy who you can ask questions to. This can be helpful for you. Some breeders are busier than others. 

Don't get too stressed about the whole thing. It is just a rabbit show and win or loose it should be fun. Some people take it far too seriously and cause a big stink over nothing which can ruin the show for just about everyone. 

Good Luck too :biggrin:


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## DharmaBuns (Sep 13, 2011)

THANK YOU for your great advice. Wow!

My husband made a nice grooming table for me, so I'm really pleased with that. I've got a list of all the things I need to pack already made out. Can you tell that I'm excited?

It is a double show, so I will have to figure out the times of both. Tans aren't sanctioned at this show, but after talking with the breeder that I got my current buns from, we may have enough for the 5 rabbits 3 breeder rule. That means if (yeah right!) I win something, I'll still get a leg?

Also, remark cards. I see that they are listed on many "to bring" lists. Is this really something that I'm supposed to bring with me or is it something that is provided for me at the show? If I need to bring them, where do I go about getting them?

So many questions! I plan on just being a sponge and soaking up as much information as I can. While I definitely want my buns to win, you're right. It's supposed to be fun


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## Korr_and_Sophie (Sep 13, 2011)

The 5 rabbits be 3 exhibitors means you can get a leg. It does go by class, then breed. So if the rabbits are in different classes (by colour, age and sex), then you would need 5 by 3 for each. If there are just 5 rabbits by 3 exhibitors for the whole breed, then only the rabbit that wins Best of Breed would get a leg. A rabbit needs 3 legs to be able to become a grand champion. You do only get 1 leg per show, so if you got Best of Breed and Best in Show, you would only get the Best in Show leg for the records. 

Usually with a double show, they are running at the same time. So show A and Show B (or whatever they call them) would both run at once. The breeds would be arranged differently so that one breed would not be up at both tables at the same time. One good thing about double (or even triple) shows, is that you get the opinion of 2 different judged. This does mean that the rabbit who gets Best Of Breed under one judge could be placed last by the other one. 

I really have no idea about remark cards. The shows around here seem to not use them. You may want to contact the show secretary about them. Some shows may provide them, others you have to and some just don't use them. It seems that you can buy them from the ARBA site. You might be able to buy a few off another breeder since you won't have time to order them. I would just ask the secretary about it and see what can be done.


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## DharmaBuns (Sep 13, 2011)

Once again, thank you for the information. It's been ever so helpful!

I'll have to look into the remark cards. I'm really hoping that it's something I won't need for this first show, but I would have to assume that someone would let me buy some from them, or even borrow a few and then replace them with once I've bought at the next show. 

It's going to be a bit nerve-wracking, but I'm prepared. I've been grooming my buns, and letting them run along a long table I have to get them prepared for the show. Fingers are crossed that the bunny gods shine down upon me!


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## CoolWaterRabbitry (Sep 13, 2011)

90% of the shows I've been to have remark cards along with the entry forms, so until you get your own supply, there's no need to worry. 

Just have fun, our first show was crazy and stressful since we didn't know where to go or what to do, but most people at the show (other breeders or judges/scribes) are more than helpful. All you have to do is say "Hey I'm new and have no clue what to do or where to go!" That's what we did and we had plenty of people showing us around and helping us out. 



Good Luck!


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## DharmaBuns (Sep 13, 2011)

*CoolWaterRabbitry wrote: *


> 90% of the shows I've been to have remark cards along with the entry forms, so until you get your own supply, there's no need to worry.
> 
> Just have fun, our first show was crazy and stressful since we didn't know where to go or what to do, but most people at the show (other breeders or judges/scribes) are more than helpful. All you have to do is say "Hey I'm new and have no clue what to do or where to go!" That's what we did and we had plenty of people showing us around and helping us out.
> 
> ...


Whew! I've heard from a lot of people that the "rabbit crowd" are a friendly bunch. I actually emailed the show secretary previously asking her a few questions (I didnt know if I could bring my Tans if they were the only ones being shown) so they do know that a 'newbie' is coming 

My main concern is going to be trying not to miss our judging. I plan on trying to find a space to set up near our table, or else find the other Tan breeders that I think are coming. 

It's funny, I'm actually having dreams now about the shows. Last night, I dreamed that there was a flying competition. The bunnies would zoom around the building doing backflips in the air and such. It was pretty exciting


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## mistyjr (Sep 13, 2011)

I used to enjoy showing rabbits, But now its kinda not into so much because some people can be so rude and mean, So I try to go to shows not that much. Just have one more show Oct 1st, And I done until spring... But showing can be fun, I get so nervous. But I like how it feels when somebody/judge likes your rabbit. I havent got an leg yet, But Im working on it to better the rabbits.. I just started showing last year. I just take rabbits just get the judges opinion, Its nice to know what you need to work/look after.


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## DharmaBuns (Sep 13, 2011)

*mistyjr wrote: *


> I used to enjoy showing rabbits, But now its kinda not into so much because some people can be so rude and mean, So I try to go to shows not that much. Just have one more show Oct 1st, And I done until spring... But showing can be fun, I get so nervous. But I like how it feels when somebody/judge likes your rabbit. I havent got an leg yet, But Im working on it to better the rabbits.. I just started showing last year. I just take rabbits just get the judges opinion, Its nice to know what you need to work/look after.


That's actually exactly what I'm going for. I really don't plan on judging my rabbits personally against everyone else's. I know that they're not going to be as good as people who have been doing this for years and years. I really am only interested in seeing what the judge's comments are on my specific rabbits. 

I would like to get some more information on what people do for conditioning though. Also, how much to feed, etc. I actually really enjoy that. 

Right now my buns are each day getting a bit of calf manna and a few unshelled black sunflower seeds. We're heading out tonight to get some rolled oats, so I'll be able to feed a bit of those too. They also get purina show food at night, and some hay during the day. I think I've got the basics down...just the AMOUNTS are what I'm really wondering about. 

Good luck on your last show. You should head up to Gaylord this coming weekend! I'll be there hehe


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## Blaze_Amita (Sep 14, 2011)

everyone else has already given good advice, so no need to repeat. but more the most part, people are so much more friendly. I had a guy, I had two breeds at one show, he knew which rabbits were mine, and (thankfully) I didn't have multiple in color(IT was dutch, a tort, a blue, a gray and a steel) and he was able to put them on the table and fill out my remark cards while i was ont he other side of the room with my holland lops. That was insanely crazy and something that will never be repeated by me, i don't show Hollands anymore, just dutch.


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## CCWelch (Sep 14, 2011)

Have you gone to any shows in your area just to observe? I did and boy was I glad I did, it helped me to know what was going on. They had someone yelling the breeds and which judge, if you don't know the judges and the tables are not labeled it is annoying.
After a few shows I figured out the judges and showing, then I actually showed and it was a good experience.


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## DharmaBuns (Sep 14, 2011)

*CCWelch wrote: *


> Have you gone to any shows in your area just to observe? I did and boy was I glad I did, it helped me to know what was going on. They had someone yelling the breeds and which judge, if you don't know the judges and the tables are not labeled it is annoying.
> After a few shows I figured out the judges and showing, then I actually showed and it was a good experience.


Yes, I've actually been to a couple shows, but I really wasn't paying as close attention to the order things were going, and since I wasn't exactly sure what breed I was going to do at the time, I wasn't really listening for a particular breed being called out. Fortunately my husband will be with me, so hopefully if I miss someone saying Tans...my husband will hear it 

Hopefully there are names of each judge! I would obviously have no clue as to which judge was which!


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## Phoenix (Sep 14, 2011)

Everyone gave some really really _great_advice. I've got nothing to add to it.

You will be all set for your first show, DharmaBuns! Good luck!

If you ever decide to breed the Trio... can I buy a male tan baby? 

Sorry, I had to ask. I have a tan female but she's got no boyfriend. She came from Texas and her name is Harmony.

Trying to find a tan in this state who is SQ...has proven to be impossible so far but I haven't given up hope. 



She recently had a baby who turned out to be a (black) Tan but I don't think I will be able to show this little baby girl though because her daddy is a mini rex. SO she probably doesn't have the right conformation.. that's my guess. I could be wrong.

I'd have to take her to a judge and have her evaluated, when she's a little older, to know for sure.


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## DharmaBuns (Sep 14, 2011)

It's so hard to find this breed, isnt it?!? I only know of two other breeders of Tans in Michigan, and I was very fortunate that the one I got my buns from had these guys available at the time. 

It's a long way off, but perhaps if you did want one of my babies, a bunny train could be established. I have a feeling, with the buck and does that I have, that I'm going to have some gorgeous babies. There's quite a high chance that I will get a few chocolates too, so I'm very excited about that as well


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## mistyjr (Sep 14, 2011)

*DharmaBuns wrote: *


> *mistyjr wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I used to enjoy showing rabbits, But now its kinda not into so much because some people can be so rude and mean, So I try to go to shows not that much. Just have one more show Oct 1st, And I done until spring... But showing can be fun, I get so nervous. But I like how it feels when somebody/judge likes your rabbit. I havent got an leg yet, But Im working on it to better the rabbits.. I just started showing last year. I just take rabbits just get the judges opinion, Its nice to know what you need to work/look after.
> ...


Thanks, And good luck to you too! Gaylord is far ways from me!  But hope the best for you! 

And I raise Lions and Mini Rex's, And I feed mine pellets daily about 1/2-1 cup daily but just depends on the rabbit, And they get hay every other day except young jr's get hay daily, And I also just oats sometimes and also sun flower seeds when I have them! 

Best of Luck! :big wink:


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## DharmaBuns (Sep 14, 2011)

Gosh, I always feel like I'm giving them too much when I give them even close to a half cup of pellets, even before I had the calf-manna/seeds in the morning. I'd always come back to visit them in the morning and there would still be some pellets there! 

Yes, Gaylord very far north for most people in Michigan. With gas prices being so high the show secretary told me that they were expecting a much smaller crowd this year. Oh well, I'm still very excited and thanks for your good luck wishes, I may need them


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## mistyjr (Sep 14, 2011)

You will know if your giving to much or too less, Check their condition, And it will tell you if you need to add more or less! 

My lions get 1/2 cup daily, And my Mini Rex's get 3/4 cup daily, They needed just a little more then my lions, Their hip bones would stick out more with the 1/2 cup, Just a little more food helped! And now I got them under control! But you will know when your feeling your buns everyday! You are doing fine, 
I dont go to shows that are to far away maybe an 30-45 min drive that all my hubby will do. And now its different story!


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## CCWelch (Sep 14, 2011)

I have one more word of advice, once the show is over and you are home, make sure you let us al know how you did!!!!
Good Luck!


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## woahlookitsme (Sep 14, 2011)

Yay we have another Tan breeder on here! I will help you out with your specific breed 

Before the show: 
At my house I built a running table of my own. It is long wooden planks with carpet stapled on top. I use seesaws from homedepot to hold up the running boards. I believe it is 7-8 ft in length and maybe 1-2 feet wide. A couple of days before the show I will make sure they know how to run across the table and sit up to look pretty. Basically i put them on it and stand back. I have some videos on youtube of my babies. I can link them on here.
This is one showing how we gently urge the babies to run. Mom is the first tan and baby is the second. 

[flash=425,344]http://www.youtube.com/v/jd9wk5ShKjY&hl=en&fs=1[/flash]

We used to give our tans calf manna but didnt ever really see a difference in their coats so we stopped using it. We dont measure their food but just put some in the bowls every night and let them free feed. Except one of my does. She is kind of chunky lol. 

During the Show:
In the morning before the show gets started and after we pay our entry fees and fill out our cards I take each tan out and let them run. I only give them a taste of the running because i don't want them to tire out before the judge even sees them. Tans are very different and many people dont know the specifics of the breed. Like when putting them up on the tables they must go Lilac, Blue, Chocolate, and Black is the last to go up. If the show secretary starts putting them up wrong I usually just tell them or the judge will. Also tans are not to be posed. They are to freely roam the table as they please. My tans like to use as much of the table as possible so they sometimes jump over the barriers the judges put up to avoid them from getting into another judges way lol. No harm done but its quite funny. I dont normally groom my tans usually because i show juniors and most of their coats are good enough as is. I usually have to clean my older bucks and i just pick out most of the small mat things by the tail and brush their bums. 

Hope this helps. Keep us updated Oh and might I ask who you got your tans from?!


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## DharmaBuns (Sep 15, 2011)

Oh good, someone else that breeds Tans! You know, I think I actually have seen that video up on youtube! I've been looking things up about Tans, and I swear I've watched yours 

I've been letting my guys run along the long table that I have next to their cages. It's probably only about...6 feet long, but I try to block of so on the first foot or so of table is able to be on, and let them run around. I'll definitely take your advice and build them a REAL running table though. Will they begin to run around naturally, or should I entice them to run around by placing bits of food in different places each time? However, I'm concerned that that would make them just sniff the ground the whole time, hehe. They are such gluttons!

Right now, my buck is almost exactly a year old, and my does have literally JUST turned 6 months, so they'll all be in the senior category. 

I'm trying to figure out if one of my does is chunky, or skinny or...WHAT! It looks like her hips bones protrude out a bit...yet when you actually squeeze her back there, it feels a bit...how do i put this gently...squishy. I think I'll just need to go to the show and ask if anyone else will feel my rabbits, or if anyone else has Tans, I'll ask if I can feel the correct form. 

I got my rabbits from JEM rabbitry


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## mistyjr (Sep 15, 2011)

Have you weighed them?


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## DharmaBuns (Sep 16, 2011)

*mistyjr wrote: *


> Have you weighed them?


I have weighed them, and they are all in the accepted weight ranges. I think I will have some judges/other breeders come look at them and tell me what they think 

My first show is coming up Saturday!! I'm bouncing off the walls a bit in excitement. I just can't wait! I'll be doing some grooming tomorrow, letting them get some running time on my makeshift running board, etc. I'll also be packing the night beforehand (minus the buns, obviously) so that we can hit the ground running in the morning. I am NOT a morning person, so my wonderful husband is definitely going to be the driver, hehe.


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## MarisaAndToby (Sep 16, 2011)

I've been lurking in here since you started this topic... Figured I'd just chime in and wish you luck  Your buns are gorgeous, I'd never seen a tan until coming to RO. Beautiful buns.


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## Korr_and_Sophie (Sep 16, 2011)

*MarisaAndToby wrote:*


> , I'd never seen a tan until coming to RO. Beautiful buns.


I hadn't seen a tan in real life until about 2 months before I got mine. Didn't stop me from wanting one since about October or November of last year. They are gorgeous in person. Hopefully you will get to see some at some point. :biggrin2:


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## mistyjr (Sep 16, 2011)

They are pretty in real person!


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## DharmaBuns (Sep 16, 2011)

They really are so pretty in person  I loved seeing pictures of them online, but nothing compares to seeing them in the flesh. Especially when they are running around. 

They really are the 'aristocrat of the fancy'.


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## Phoenix (Sep 17, 2011)

Yea they seem to be more of the racy (racey?) breed. More greyhound physique.

I love harmony and I think those tans in the video are gorgeous!! Harmony is a "blue" tan.


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## Phoenix (Sep 17, 2011)

You can actually ship rabbits through the mail. They have to have special carriers etc blah blah blah. I'd go more into detail if it were actually going to happen soon.

A tan male would be more for my friend who owns Harmony.
If I tell her that I know of people who may have tans in the future.. she might pitch in the $$ to have one shipped overnight.

But that's not until the far, far future if you even decide to breed the trio so I'm not worried.

All I know for sure is that she wants to use my buck again and breed him to her doe, harmony, and hopes for another 50% rex tan baby.


I should get you guys a picture of her adorableness! I'll do that tonight when I go down there to feed everyone... hmm I should do that sooner than usual since it's starting to rain and I have feed bags to unload.

Hope Bowser leaves my fingers alone lol that little scamp! He's got it stuck in his head that ALL treats are in the palm of your hand even if the treat is on the ground in front of him. He goes for the hand and it takes him a while to be convinced that it's not in your hand. Bowswer is an adorable broken black mini rex baby. 2 months old and a real " in your pocket" baby. I flick his nose when he starts nibbling.


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## Phoenix (Sep 17, 2011)

Here is my tan baby girl.

She's 50% tan and 50% mini rex.

Her mother is Harmony, a blue tan, and her father his blade, a broken black otter mini rex.

I really like how glossy her coat is turning out to be but that's about all I can say. 
I have to have a judge look at her.

What do you fellow tan breeders/raisers think? She might be too cobby but you can't tell in the pictures that well.

She's only about 2 months old.. I don't think she even has her prime JR coat in yet.

I don't think she is as pretty as those 2 tans in the video up above but.. she's still a sweetheart and her birth was a nice surprise.


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## DharmaBuns (Sep 17, 2011)

She is beautiful 

The show went so well today!!!!!

In the first show my buck got Best of Variety (black) and Best Opposite sex. Best in show actually went to a junior chocolate doe. My other doe got best of the Sr Doe class, and my other doe got 2nd place!

In the second show...my doe (Ringer) won BEST OF BREED!!!! She was then in the running for BIS, and when the judge looked at her, she remarked at how absolutely beautiful she was. She kept going on and on about her, but unfortunately it went to a black rex. Oh well!

In the 2nd show, my buck got Best of his class (Sr bucks) and my other doe got 2nd place in the Sr Doe class. 

All in all it was a great experience. I loved it so much, and now I've got pretty ribbons to show off


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## mistyjr (Sep 18, 2011)

Yay! Congrats!


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## DharmaBuns (Sep 18, 2011)

Thank you!! 

I am still on cloud 9  I wasn't able to fall asleep last night because I was still so excited (even though I was absolutely beyond exhausted!) 

I will post some pictures of my girl tomorrow, of her getting judged for BIS. And naturally, I'll need to take a picture of her with all her ribbons! 

I love Ringer, Guardian, and Guise  They all did so wonderfully.


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## mistyjr (Sep 18, 2011)

:biggrin::weee:inkbouce:inkelepht::wiggle:blueribbon::bunnydance::bunnyheart:happyrabbit:


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## woahlookitsme (Sep 18, 2011)

Do you remember any of the comments? Congratulations! How many tans were being judged with yours?

As far as one of your does being chunky lol. Most competitve tans are 4-5 lbs. If they are bigger than that they are either a little overweight or larger framed. Also the older tan standard called for most of them to be much close to 6lbs. This caused alot of tans to become heavier in the hind quarters. If you have a side profile of the said rabbit i could get a better idea. I know alot of tans that have become really hippy and i think i can demostrate this with pictures. 

If you go on my website in the tan page
http://owensbunnies.weebly.com/tan.html

You can see Beyonce. If you go down her top line you can see how angular it is. After her hip bones it's termed choppy. As she just was chopped straight to the table with no roundness to her hind end. This goes along with type. I pair her with Chevy or Seawolf for instance (two of my bucks) to even this out. See how smooth of a top line they have as they sit.


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## DharmaBuns (Sep 18, 2011)

*woahlookitsme wrote: *


> Do you remember any of the comments? Congratulations! How many tans were being judged with yours?
> 
> As far as one of your does being chunky lol. Most competitve tans are 4-5 lbs. If they are bigger than that they are either a little overweight or larger framed. Also the older tan standard called for most of them to be much close to 6lbs. This caused alot of tans to become heavier in the hind quarters. If you have a side profile of the said rabbit i could get a better idea. I know alot of tans that have become really hippy and i think i can demostrate this with pictures.
> 
> ...


Thank you for pointing me to those pictures. They really were a great learning experience. I really can see what you mean when you say "choppy". It's really interesting (and fun, in my opinion) trying to figure out what pairs are best to make really good buns.

For Guardian, my other doe, they said that her hipbones protruded a bit. I am going to try to put a bit more weight on her. Also, both judges said that she was a bit too delicate for their tastes. They both used that word. I suppose I like the more delicate look, but if the judges want to see a little more meat on their bones, i'll have to agree. 

I really didn't get any negative feedback on Ringer. They both just absolutely loved her. I didn't hear why she didn't get BOB the first show. I really should have asked. I was just so happy that my buck won out of his variety group. He was competing against 5 other SR black bucks. It's not a huge amount, but it was thrilling for me


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## woahlookitsme (Sep 19, 2011)

Thats good your buck won. Black is the most competitive color and Bucks are the worst aging animals in tans as far as looks go lol. I could help evaluate them if you had posing pictures if you would like. 

As far as Guardian, Beyonce is like that too. Really fine boned and skinny. We have to give her rolled oats and lots of hay. She won the ARBA bob youth tan at the california convention and ever since she grew to senior her fat content hasnt increased. She is an awesome mom and is the tan we have to take the babies off early than 8weeks just to make sure we aren't sacrificing her health.

My first show for the fall season is this weekend. I can take pictures and post them up. Ill be showing my three brit babies and two tans (diesel and serena) Very excited to see how they do. Diesel will be competing with his siblings that i sold. Two of them are under my winnings page. 

Congrats again!


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## DharmaBuns (Sep 20, 2011)

*woahlookitsme wrote: *


> Thats good your buck won. Black is the most competitive color and Bucks are the worst aging animals in tans as far as looks go lol. I could help evaluate them if you had posing pictures if you would like.
> 
> As far as Guardian, Beyonce is like that too. Really fine boned and skinny. We have to give her rolled oats and lots of hay. She won the ARBA bob youth tan at the california convention and ever since she grew to senior her fat content hasnt increased. She is an awesome mom and is the tan we have to take the babies off early than 8weeks just to make sure we aren't sacrificing her health.
> 
> ...


Yes! Pictures please!!!!!!

Yeah, I'm trying to fatten Guardian up a bit before the next show. I think she's a gorgeous rabbit, and they commented on her fur and that her markings/coloring were really striking, but that she was just too delicate. 

Our next show is on Oct 8th. I'm just hoping that she won't get BOB this show, then get last place in the next show. I suppose it all just has to do with judges' opinions, but I'd still be upset


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## woahlookitsme (Sep 20, 2011)

Not all of it is judges opinion. Im sure up north where tans are more popular and known you might not have a problem. But the south is known for our meat rabbits and thats what most people know. Put a tan in front of them and they'll only let them take 5 steps for evaluation and god forbid they dont run at all. A meat judge even tried to teach youth about a straight demarcation line by flattening them on the table like a himi. Most of it, down here at least, is about experience that judge has with a tan and we definitely know the judges who do and who don't.


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## DharmaBuns (Sep 20, 2011)

*woahlookitsme wrote: *


> Not all of it is judges opinion. Im sure up north where tans are more popular and known you might not have a problem. But the south is known for our meat rabbits and thats what most people know. Put a tan in front of them and they'll only let them take 5 steps for evaluation and god forbid they dont run at all. A meat judge even tried to teach youth about a straight demarcation line by flattening them on the table like a himi. Most of it, down here at least, is about experience that judge has with a tan and we definitely know the judges who do and who don't.


That makes a lot of sense, actually. I've heard from other breeders, even up here, that sometimes the judges haven't let their rabbits move around on the table. 

What sorts of things make a good Tan judge? Letting them move on the table is obviously one, but is there anything else I should look for to determine how seriously I should take their critiques on my rabbits? I have no problem with people telling me about the areas that I need to improve on, but I'd like to have it come from people who know what they're talking about


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## CCWelch (Sep 22, 2011)

Sadly sometimes it is who the judge knows and who he doesn't know.
I can give you 2 cases both at the same show with 2 different judges, one was with my rabbit.
2 French lop intermediates on the table 1 mine and 1 belonging to a girl that shows at every show. The judge did not even actually take my rabbit out of the box and look at it and gave her first.
2nd incident same day, New Zealands on the table (not mine) 2 top breeders in the area and someone wearing a shirt saying they had been "trained" by the judge in question. The judge only talked to the ones wearing "his" shirts and didn't even look at the other rabbits. I have noticed he hasn't been asked to judge anything locally lately and i know grievances were filed. He even gave another french lop to the girl that competed against me that day. He and the other judge were heard discussing the matter later and he asked if "his rabbit" had been given the first.


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## DharmaBuns (Sep 22, 2011)

*CCWelch wrote: *


> Sadly sometimes it is who the judge knows and who he doesn't know.
> I can give you 2 cases both at the same show with 2 different judges, one was with my rabbit.
> 2 French lop intermediates on the table 1 mine and 1 belonging to a girl that shows at every show. The judge did not even actually take my rabbit out of the box and look at it and gave her first.
> 2nd incident same day, New Zealands on the table (not mine) 2 top breeders in the area and someone wearing a shirt saying they had been "trained" by the judge in question. The judge only talked to the ones wearing "his" shirts and didn't even look at the other rabbits. I have noticed he hasn't been asked to judge anything locally lately and i know grievances were filed. He even gave another french lop to the girl that competed against me that day. He and the other judge were heard discussing the matter later and he asked if "his rabbit" had been given the first.


I can't even believe that, and frankly I am appalled! Everything I've read, and even the breeder that I've talked to, specifically state "Don't let the judge know which rabbit is yours." To walk up to a judging table with a "trained by ____" shirt on is terrible! That's a conflict of interest if I've ever heard one. I'm glad to hear that he doesn't do things locally anymore. 

I am just a little concerned, because when I look at nationally competing Tans....they look like Guardian. That's why I'm so surprised that Ringer won. Guardian seems to have that beautiful delicate body type, and I always thought Ringer was well....fat. It's possible that there were other factors involved, but both judges mentioned that she was too delicate. At the next show, I think I'm going to track a judge down and ask them to look over my rabbits when he/she gets some spare time.


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## Korr_and_Sophie (Sep 22, 2011)

Sometimes a rabbit can be more 'on' or 'off' on a day which could affect how they place. At a show a week or 2 later, the placings of your rabbits can be totally different. There are many factors in how a rabbit does from the stress of travelling to the feed and jot how they are feeling on the day. 
Each judge can intemperate the standard a bit differently. This can lead to some differences in the placings. A judge who raises Holland Lops can look at a Tan differently than a judge who raises Tans or one who raises Flemish Giants. There are some judges who don't see Tans on a regular basis, so might not be as familiar with the standard and one who sees them at pretty much every show. 
You can try looking up judges before you enter to see if it might be worth it to enter. Since most shows do advertise their judges in advance (check the show catalogue), you can find out more on them before you enter. If you find that neither one is really that great with Tans, then you might decide not the enter. You can also take it as a learning experience to help educate the judge on Tans if you are comfortable with that. You may find that the judges are really good with Tans, and that could sway you to travel a bit further to get their opinion. 

Unfortunately, people will be people and some will want to do whatever they can to win. If you do see a something, bring it up with the show secretary and see if there is anything that can be done. It is against ARBA rules to point out or otherwise indicate which rabbit is yours. While this can be hard if you are the only one with tans, you should still try to avoid saying anything that could sway the judge, such as Rabbit A has 3 legs or Rabbit B is from so-and-so breeder. 
If you do want the judge to evaluate your rabbits outside the official show, try to wait until after Tans have been judged. This can mean waiting until the end of the day if needed, but does help keep the judge impartial for the show. I think that when a breeder does bring a rabbit to just get an opinion, they don't enter it in the show.


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## woahlookitsme (Sep 22, 2011)

I cant believe that either about the judges. Can't you say something to the arba about that. That should be taken care of and every rabbit needs to be judged and given a fair chance. I would have said something to the secretary or the show supervisor thats horrible.

As far as looking for someone who knows what they are talking about. I get my information from people who have been showing or have showed my breed. I can tell you the judges i know about but we are a long way from MI. Travis Finkle, Randy Shumaker, Mikey Franke, Cheryl Blackman, Wade Burkhalter, Eric Stewart. I love Kelly Flynns description about judging a tan. Heres a link, some great information too

http://www.blueribbonrabbitry.com/aboutourtans.htm


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## DharmaBuns (Sep 22, 2011)

*woahlookitsme wrote: *


> I cant believe that either about the judges. Can't you say something to the arba about that. That should be taken care of and every rabbit needs to be judged and given a fair chance. I would have said something to the secretary or the show supervisor thats horrible.
> 
> As far as looking for someone who knows what they are talking about. I get my information from people who have been showing or have showed my breed. I can tell you the judges i know about but we are a long way from MI. Travis Finkle, Randy Shumaker, Mikey Franke, Cheryl Blackman, Wade Burkhalter, Eric Stewart. I love Kelly Flynns description about judging a tan. Heres a link, some great information too
> 
> http://www.blueribbonrabbitry.com/aboutourtans.htm


I actually have been talking with Kelly (via facebook) and I plan on getting her opinion on my tans as well. Obviously, I can only send her photos at this point, but I am definitely going to be heading down to the Tan Nationals in April. I will bring my buns then, and get a much better idea on what the breed is all about. 

Thanks for the information, everyone. I'm glad that there are those out there that stand up for the rules, and don't view letting supervisors know of rule-breaking as "tattling". The sad truth is that there are those out there that take this beyond a fun hobby, and will do anything to win. It's very unfortunate. 

I hope I learn a few judges in my area that are good with Tans. Do judges usually stay in their state, or do they travel around the country doing shows?


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## mistyjr (Sep 22, 2011)

I added you on "facebook" if you dont mind! 


But yes, judges travel were ever they need them at for the show, And you always get more then one opinion on the judges, Every judge is different and judges, I had some real mean rude judges and I had some sweet judges,


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## DharmaBuns (Sep 22, 2011)

*mistyjr wrote: *


> I added you on "facebook" if you dont mind!
> 
> 
> But yes, judges travel were ever they need them at for the show, And you always get more then one opinion on the judges, Every judge is different and judges, I had some real mean rude judges and I had some sweet judges,



Of course not! I've accepted your request! I love having other rabbit lovers on my friends list  It's funny, because after the most recent show, I've added at least 5 people I met there to my friends list. 

So I suppose if I go to the next show on Oct 8th and get last place...I shouldn't be too discouraged? hehe.


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## mistyjr (Sep 22, 2011)

Thanks,

Yeah, that's what people have told me, You need to get more then one judge opinion on them, So yeah! 
Example, I raise lionheads and I had an buck that did good on the table and the next show he did poorly, And I was going to sell him and they said hold it off and show him again, And they told me to get other people judges because they are all different,


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## Korr_and_Sophie (Sep 22, 2011)

Judges to travel a fair bit. Around here, there is 1 guy who is working on becoming a judge. All the judges for shows are flown in from all over the states, usually 2-3 per show. 

You sort of need to average out your shows. If a rabbit does well in most then it is probably a pretty good rabbit. If it is at the bottom for pretty much every show, then not the best. Now a rabbit could place poorly due to something that is not genetic, so could make a good breeding rabbit, like missing a toe nail due to an injury.


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## mistyjr (Sep 22, 2011)

And oh when they are molting too, That's hard on them for judging, I have a show next weekend and half my mini's are molting badly, ugh! hurry up fur.... LOL


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## Phoenix (Sep 30, 2011)

Yea, I had a judge who looked at rebel's ear tattoo ( his name) and laughed, saying loudly, " Oh i like this rabbit hahaha" then he quieted down once he started inspecting him.

I felt a bit uncomfortable and kinda hung back in the crowd, not saying anything.

I don't think he was playing favorites though because he went back and forth with rebel and a black mini rex for quite some time before finally making his decision.

I mean.. by the looks of it.. he was really studying BOTH rabbits hard. ( the black mini rex was NOT mine)


I'm sorry for your judges naughty behavior  they are human... but it sucks when you are on the unfair receiving end of things.


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## Phoenix (Oct 1, 2011)

OH hey interesting fact I just now noticed......


Apparently.. my friends blue tan didn't have the one black tan baby girl.

She had 2 broken tan (one black, one blue) does and the solid black tan doe AND a broken black tan buck.

I only thought she had the 1 doe... I was so wrong. She brought out her babies to show me and I was surprised.

Go blade!!! my buck did a great job on her doe.

Now we want to see if... breeding her to a different buck ( same color as my buck) will still produce tan babies. Would be great to get different bloodlines in the mix.


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## DharmaBuns (Oct 2, 2011)

*Phoenix wrote: *


> OH hey interesting fact I just now noticed......
> 
> 
> Apparently.. my friends blue tan didn't have the one black tan baby girl.
> ...


Good luck!!!


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## majorv (Oct 2, 2011)

Do you have pictures of these mixed breeds. I always wondered what tans would look like if they came out of a tan and another breed


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## DharmaBuns (Oct 2, 2011)

*majorv wrote: *


> Do you have pictures of these mixed breeds. I always wondered what tans would look like if they came out of a tan and another breed



Oops! I meant to ask the same thing in my last post. Seconding this! 

I've seen some pictures of Belgian Hare/Tan mixes that are absolutely gorgeous!


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## Phoenix (Oct 7, 2011)

I DO realize that they aren't "tan rabbits".. they are only half tan.

The goal is to get the Tan rabbit coloring.. with a rex coat and a tan's body type.... or should we get a mini rex body type? hmmmm choices choices.

I did post pictures of the black tan (mixed breed technically) female on this thread I think but I don't have any of the brokens.


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