# Really Discouraged - Don't Know What To Do



## Nela (Sep 22, 2010)

I arrived in the Netherlands in May. In June, we moved into our home. Meanwhile I had to do some tests and go to appointments about the dutch integration program (Inburgering). Anyway, they FINALLY got back to me last week and told me I was starting Monday.

They had mentionned having various times for the courses and I was pretty adament about wanting mornings since it meant Jeff could drive me there and then I would only have to walk back. They didn't put me in the morning class. Now okay, I was pretty disappointed and worried because it's a 40min walk one way and I have torn tendons in both feet as well as heel spurs which haven't healed yet. Anyway, I could overlook that and I told myself maybe i wouldn't be a problem and we'd see how it goes.

Monday was my first class. We are only 4 students in our group because all the others canceled. Anyway, they took us to a computer class where there were other students and explained to us how to log in and then left us on our own. Now let me tell you how this went.

The computer program shows you a short video which is all is dutch. After that, you get a list of words which is all in dutch. The next step is answering questions. All in Dutch. So I asked the teacher 'How can I answer a question I cannot read?' And this made the teacher annoyed. She got annoyed and told me if it's too hard for me to just do the words. So I calmly asked 'But Miss, I understand that they pronounce the word but I do not know what the word means and the definition is in Dutch.' Her reply was to get a dictionary.

Anyway, it turns out the 4 of us just sat there and stared blankly and were getting very frustrated. The teacher got irritated and took us to another class where she started a more interactive lesson. That was much much better however, she made us start reading things and pronouncing things without teaching us phoenetics, alphabet, etc. 

Yesterday, I had the worse day. We had a new teacher. She started us off in the 'interactive class' only to make it much much less interactive. She basically sat there and watched us struggle. She then gave us a sheet which had a picture of a kitchen with smaller pictures of objects found around the kitchen and the dutch word under them. And that was that. She didn't pronounce the words. She just left us to it. And of course, with none of us having done phonetics, it's pretty much impossible to just guess the pronounciation. 

She picked on me in particular because I have absolutely no knowledge of the dutch language and I struggle with the 'v' and 'w' sound. She got mad at me and told me that I need to go home and learn these things. I asked why I was at school if I had to go learn it at home. She didn't answer. At one point we asked about a word in a sentence to find out it means 'learn'. She got irritated and said that if we do not know these words, we should go home and look it up in the dictionary. I had my dictionary with me but of course it could not be found because it was not the infinitive form of the verb. Nice. We have to guess that too?

She also lied to us at one point about a certain rule not existing for the use of two different articles. She said they use one more than the other and that we just have to learn it. In fact, there is a clear rule in place, though it may not be too easy for a beginner. I would respect that if i were told that, but please do not start treating me like I am so stupid and do not need to know of things existing.

Anyway, the teacher got so irritated with us asking questions that shesaid 'Enough for today' basically kicked us out, and walked away leaving us standing there in bewilderment. We spent some time wandering around and then figured maybe we should go to the computer class. Who knows. There were students there that we had never seen but we just sat there and well basically we did anything other than learning dutch. All of us are very discouraged.

This is for my citizenship. It's a crucial part. I have 3.5 years to learn all this and pass the exams... It seems the school doesn't give a darn though. The way those teachers treat us is despicable. We're all adults. We're not stupid. We're trying hard to learn and yet they cannot be bothered to teach us. You voice your concerns and they automatically label you as a troublemaker. You ask a question and they make you feel so unbelievably stupid...

I'm not sure how to handle this?


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## JadeIcing (Sep 22, 2010)

I would talk to your fellow students and see if between you all go to someone that can help. United front to deal with this.


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## slavetoabunny (Sep 22, 2010)

Maybe it would help to purchase a program like Rosetta Stone to learn the language.


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## nermal71 (Sep 22, 2010)

If you can afford it Rosetta Stone is an awesome program and it does work.


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## Nancy McClelland (Sep 22, 2010)

Rosetta Stone is one way to approach it. The other thing is to get together and present a united front to someone in charge as your "teachers" are collecting a salary for doing a job and not doing the job, nor, are they worthy of the name "teacher".


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## slavetoabunny (Sep 22, 2010)

*Nancy McClelland wrote: *


> Rosetta Stone is one way to approach it. The other thing is to get together and present a united front to someone in charge as your "teachers" are collecting a salary for doing a job and not doing the job, nor, are they worthy of the name "teacher".


I agree, it doesn't sound like the "teachers" are doing their job. Are they government workers?


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## Nela (Sep 22, 2010)

I know about the Rosetta Stone program and I do have it though I haven't installed it yet. The thing is that it is quite irritating to have to go to school 4 days a week only to be treated this way and have to do things on my own at home. There are other things I could be doing. :rollseyes

Anyway, the teacher and I got into it a bit today. Things settled at the end, after the others joined in and she finally gave in and started teaching the phonetics. That helps, like a lot! Tomorrow we have the very rude teacher though so we will see how it goes.

One major problem is that I was unable to walk back home from school. I had to call Jeff and ask him to pick me up so he had to leave work early. I have no idea how I will manage this. I think I need to figure out this bicycle riding and fast. My feet were nearly purple and I have nice blisters. I felt the tendons tear again so I've just undone months of somewhat healing. They are swollen and angry red so I am back on cortisone. Whoopdeedoo. :expressionlessArghhhhh. Stupid feet. Lol.


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## missyscove (Sep 22, 2010)

Is the class mandatory or just learning the language? 
I certainly understand what you mean about the v's and w's. I'm in my second semester of German and the one thing that makes me feel better is hearing my teacher mispronounce things (like werbs instead of verbs).


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## Nela (Sep 24, 2010)

I'm not exactly sure about if it is mandatory or not. Sure sounded like I have to do it. This is integration so they cover quite a bit more than just the language. I will be installing the Rosetta Stone program though so I can pick up on it faster and better. Thanks guys for reminding me of that one.

Things were a bit better yesterday. The teacher isn't the best, that is for sure but okay, I am trying to stay focused. I had a bit of an argument with the otherthe day beforeand of course she wrote things down. Anyway, yesterday, she taught us some of the things I complained about. My classmate cannot stand her and spent most of the class pulling middle fingers at her behind her back. That's not something I want to encourage. I mean, sure, she's not the best but that's not how anything will get better that is for sure. 

I'm glad they are trying to teach us the basics now. I'm hoping next week will keep improving. I sure hope so, I have a bit over a year of this to go. Lol


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## Flash Gordon (Sep 24, 2010)

everything u need to learn is right at ur fingertips.....online.


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## Luluznewz (Sep 24, 2010)

I'm a bit confused. Was this class intended to teach you the language or do they assume you already know it at this point?

It's possible they excepted you all to know the language before taking an integration class. If thats the case I think I would drop he integration class and start with an actual language class first. It doesnt sound like this teacher is going to teach you anything. Either way, I think you may need a new program in order to learn.


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## Nela (Sep 27, 2010)

I agree that there are very good programs online. However, I'm from the mentality that a computer cannot replace a good teacher. It's nicer to learn with a teacher I find. You cannot ask a computer a direct question. I hate that.

Like I mentionned before, it's also the fact that I am at school 4 days a week. I would expect to be learning a lot there versus having to do more of the learning at home than at school. 

Luluznewz, nah this is a full integration. They will teach us dutch language, history, culture, way of life etc. Basically they are teaching us what we need to know to function properly. I'm in the very basic course for the language since I need to start from scratch. On the other hand, becausewe scored highly on the IQ test,they just expect us to learn very quickly. :expressionless

Anywho, there is good news though... :biggrin2:The rude teacher (we have 2 teachers)that none of us liked (and the feeling was clearly mutual) has ditched us. Yep. Well anyway, we could tell from the very minute she walked into the class that she did NOT want to be there. Ah well. It's a relief really. I did think it was better last Thursday but if I really could be honest, I would suggest she change career. She demanded that they find us another teacher. Sooooo we will have another teacher either this week or next. Our other teacher though has listened to our concerns and she's been teaching a whole lot more now. She and I had a nice private conversation and I think we will get along just fine. She's quite pleasant nowand has made the class way more interactive. 

Very relieved to say the least! :biggrin: Thanks again everyone for the encouragement.


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## Nancy McClelland (Sep 27, 2010)

great.


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## otnorot (Sep 28, 2010)

Have I got this right? You are trying to learn to speak Dutch(Netherland)and the teachers are giving you a hard time? 

If so how about the principal of the school,complain to him.if no results from him then go higher up.Still no results then a letter to the newspapers about your treatment in Holland,they are always looking for a good story. 

Bill


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## Nela (Sep 28, 2010)

Hmm I certainly don't want to turn something simple into a huge story. I wouldn't want to give people the wrong impression about holland really. It's not the case. It was more of an issue with the teaching itself and I couldn't seem to figure if I should confront them about it or stay quiet and 'adapt' or what. It seems things are changing now so it's getting a lot better.

Not that it excuses everything, but I do know that there is a lot of talk about the budget cuts and the program financing taking a good hit. Also, there have been lots of cancellations so we're a really tiny group so I guess some teachers are quite annoyed with the way things are working out as well. 

I butted heads with the teachers but we seem to have come to a mutual understanding and now that the teaching has improved, I really can't complain 

I also think these are government employees or so and it's a bit more complicated to 'complain'. If ever I have reason to, I could always go see the coordinator and file an official complaint but that would only be after I have exhausted other methods or if it's really really serious. 

Hopefully things keep improving and that doesn't need to be done :expressionless


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## Bunny parents (Sep 28, 2010)

Dear Nela, 
First of all I wish you all the best and I wish you pass every troubles and tests of life. 
I hope my story will help you, even a bit.  I'm not Pole. I moved to Poland on Nov 2008. My husband is Pole and we decided to start out lives together here. Well, I had the same thing as you do now. I was struggled with Polish language . First few months I came here. Everything was so good. I mean, I did had a good time, enjoying sight-seeing. Then after that, time to focus on settling my life down here. They don't have language courses from government for someone who wants to become their citizen. I took 2 intensive courses from a school. There I learned all grammar I need to know. The rest I practice it myself. Well, sounds easy but it wasn't. It was so hard for me to deal with language and everything around here. As you might know, they don't speak English here, well only a bit, but it's rarely to find someone on the street whom you can walk up to and ask for direction,...etc. Polish language is the hardest I ever learned ; grammar, pronunciation, writing, reading, listening, ahhhhhhhh ! it drives me crazy. But please believe me, things will come around. It will be better soon and will keep going better and better. You will do it just fine.  For me, it was a day, early last year, when I sat at home, so frustrated and wanted to go back home so badly. I just grab my bag and went out. I didn't know where to go but I knew that I have to step out from my fear, the fear that I would never be able to settle down here. I took a bus, went for a shopping. I tried to speak as much as I could at that time. Then I realized it wasn't so bad, at least I could find my way home  Anyway, cheer up, Nela.  I'm sure you're doing it just fine. All you have to do is never give up.  It's just another challenge. Good luck for everything, for your Dutch. :hug1 Go for it !!!
Oh, about walking, yessss I walk a lot here too. Bicycle is a good idea.


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## Nela (Sep 28, 2010)

Thanks for sharing! I didn't realize you had moved there recently... Well, 2 years in a new country isn't much :winkYeah, it's quite a lot to adapt to but that is to be expected I guess. I seriously need to learn how to ride properly It's so humiliating though! LOL


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## Nela (Sep 29, 2010)

:shock:

It turns out that a student from another group (who is actually my classmate's husband) wrote a very nasty letter of complaint to the director. :expressionlessNow, there is a huge meeting with the director and any students wanting to be heard. Apparently, the teacher's job is on the line now.

I'm not sure I will go to be honest... Though I must admit, I am a bit apprehensive about the new teacher. I'm concerned that this will turn into something way too messy. I would like to speak out against the teaching methods but I do want to be involved with this student. *Sigh*

I think I will ask my mother-in-law for extra help. It will mean not having much time to do anything else but I guess at this point, doing this is more important. :expressionless


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## SnowyShiloh (Sep 30, 2010)

Uh oh! I hope everything works out okay. I can understand not wanting to get involved if the teacher who stayed is doing a good job now.

I have a story kind of like this. It all came down to miscommunication. As you know, I was a foreign exchange student in Austria when I was 15. A couple months after I got there, the principal decided I should go hang out with 4th graders during their German class so I could learn some grammar (note: completely useless. A German class designed for 9 year olds is not the same as German for foreigners). One of the teachers I was assigned to clearly did not care for having me in the class- I could tell this from as soon as I walked in. Partway into the lesson (which I was paying careful attention to), she stopped and asked me in English, "What time is it?" I was of course confused and told her the time on the clock. Note that we hadn't been discussing tense or anything. She asked again, angry this time, and I couldn't figure out what she was asking but did as best as I could. That night my host parents got a call from the school principal saying that the German teacher said I was disrespectful and purposely did not answer her question. What a load! It was pretty upsetting and I heard about the incident from many people. I am NOT a rude person and am a good student. It's sad when confusion is mistaken for intentional rudeness. Especially since she's the one who wasn't making sense. Thankfully, I never had to go to her class again and the new teacher I was assigned too was much nicer


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## Nela (Sep 30, 2010)

Bit drained right now so only posting quicklybut I just wanted to say that I am considering other options at this time...


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## Alyssaur (Sep 30, 2010)

I'm not sure about Holland's policy regarding immigrants and integration, but I would hope it is similar to Finland's in that they really want you to successfully integrate and be productive in the community.

If possible, I would suggest going to the unemployment office in your area and seeing if they can set you up with a language course as soon as possible -- preferably one that lasts for 6-9 months with the possibilty of work-practice in between, or after the course.

History and culture is something you can learn on your own, but there's only so much of the language you can pick up on your own. Plus, it really helps to be taught a language correctly from the beginning, rather than having to correct learned mistakes later on.


I moved to Finland this past summer and after asking around at the unemployment office, I immediatly got set up with this great 9 month course.

I've been in the course for about three weeks now and I already feel like I can get around without my husband translating for me all of the time.

It helps to have a teacher really loves her job too. I can imagine how much harder it would be to learn Finnish if our teacher wasn't interested in teaching us.

Anyway, I really hope your situation improves. I know how difficult it is to be in a new country where you can't understand anyone and vice versa.

Even if their way of life is not so different from your home country, being able to communicate is a huge deal.


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## Nela (Sep 30, 2010)

This is the program through the unemployment agency. They are supposed to be teaching the whole kit for citizenship. The thing is it's more of an 'immersion' than a language class. It's a bit difficult because they want you asking things in english but they don't teach you how to say it in dutch. :expressionless

Also, half the course is done on a computer program. The problem with the computer program is a) a bit too advanced since we cannot understand the questions and b) faulty. It's quite difficult to learn with a program that keeps crashing or glitches so it doesn't show what is needed to do the exercise.

I completely agree about learning it right rather than having to correct it later on. I think that is one of the things that irk me the most. They have the mentality that they teach only for you to pass the exam. So what may be 'acceptable' may not be correct. Especially with pronounciation. Of course I understand it may not be perfect, but I do think that it's something quite important. 

Ah wellllll...


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## Sabine (Sep 30, 2010)

Hi Nela, I am sorry to hear you are having such a hard time in your Dutch class.
I am a language teacher and felt aghast reading through the account of your first language class.
With only four students in the class you have so many options of interactive exercises and loads of personal attention and what does your teacher do? She sits you in front of a screen:?
The next thing you are supposed to read words that you have never heard pronounced:shock: A teacher with any basic training should know That it's hear - speak - read - write the word (in that order). In fact in my beginners classes I would stay away from the written word for at least the first half an hour so that the pronunciation becomes habitual. 
If she wasn't sure what level everyone was at a little get-to-know-each other-session (what's your name? where do you come from?... etc...) would have soon established that.
My guess is that these people aren't actual teachers and it's a shame they couldn't at least get some students doing a diploma in education to do the job.


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## Nela (Oct 1, 2010)

Thank you Sabine. That's exactly how I would expect to learn a language. Right now we are doing: read, speak, write, pronounce. Makes no sense to me at all :expressionlessIt's such a shame to see teachers being replaced with computers, especially when they are replaced with programs that crash constantly.

The day is split it two. We spend the first half on the computer, and the other in class with a teacher. 

The computer part is a complete waste of time at this moment. The program is just too advanced. You cannot read dutch if you've never learned the words. The program shows you a video which is completely dutch (okay, you can guess at what it is about since it is a video) but then they ask questions about it. So okay, although you have figured out what it's actually about, you can't understand what they are actually saying. The questions are then in dutch, as are the answers and that's where we get lost.

It's bad enough that they didn't even explain to us how the program works so we just randomly click everywhere to see what happens. Lol. Then on top of that, the program itself has issues. Sometimes, you're supposed to be seeing pictures but the pictures don't show.Oftentimes the program just crashes completely. At other times it just skips a chapter... :expressionless

The 'interactive' half started just as wonky as the computer half. We had to introduce ourselves in dutch - which no one speaks. Then it was just zooming through pages. I don't think I have ever heard the numbers from 1-100 so fast... That was how we were to learn. ssd:

The 'interactive' part is split between two teachers, so they alternate every second day. One of the teachers was absolutely rude and pretty much sat on her butt all class and let us try and figure out the dutch language amongst ourselves. Yes, one canadian, two russians and one romanian (and now one chinese) will figure it out... Anywho, that teacher had a problem with us and the school and demanded they find us a new teacher. 

Things are going a little bit better with the other teacher but it is still rough. It's just so discouraging to learn like this :expressionless


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## Sabine (Oct 1, 2010)

The set up sounds utterly bizarre to me. You can't ask people to start saying things in a foreign language without giving them a few phrases. I always love those first few classes when people go home and are thrilled they can say a few things in the new language like 'hello','how are you', 'I come from... 
I would actually love to teach a class with people of different origins. My classes are usually all English speakers and I've never managed to carry through with German for the whole time as it is more effective short term to give explanations in English and my students wouldn't be immersed in the language outside the class room.


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## Nela (Oct 5, 2010)

Agreed Sabine.

After much frustration and debate, I have decided to withdraw from the college. Jeff has found all the information I need and it turns out that the course is completely optional. Of course, the integration isn't but how you go about learning it is. 

Jeff has found me an excellent self-study course from which I will be learning dutch language and more. It is an 'inburgerencursus' book so it is made to follow the 'Inburgeren' (integration) requirement. I will also have his help and most likely the help of his sister and mother as well. 

I believe this is a better option. I only read a preview of the book and already I learned more than I have in weeks. Simple pronounciation guidelines that have made a world, and I mean a world of difference. Simple simple rules that are indispensable.

Also, while reading the book preview, they mentionned a website which has a ton and I mean a TON of information for expats. They even have their own magazine. They offer things like counselling, guidance, job listings, course listings, community activities, etc etc.

If the school program works for others, that's cool. Myself, I would rather have a more intensive course. Something more concrete, more productive.Going to school almost full-time for a very part-time education? Not my thing. My way works better - for me. 

Btw... The computer program? The whole program/network crashed


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## AquaticRex (Oct 6, 2010)

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/

dunno if that will help any, but i use it for fun. i play a game and a few people can only talk in Spanish, and i use that to help get a point across.


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