# Please send vibes for my rats....



## undergunfire (Nov 4, 2008)

Ralphie and Louie were acting odd last night, so I gave them nummy food and kept the heat on in the house. I woke up this morning and their breathing is terrible. We got them into the carrier and headed to the vet at 8am with no appointment, right when their doors opened....

I asked the receptionist if I could drop them off and have Dr. Luna see them as soon as she possibly could. The receptionist proceeded to tell me that Dr. Luna's last day at the office was yesterday and that she opened her own practice in Lake Havasu, AZ (4 hours away). I asked if Dr. Batt (my bunny vet) could see my rats and I was told that she does not have rat knowledge. She proceeded to give me 2 numbers over vet's in town that see pet rats.

I called the two vets. Vet #1 said that their exotics vet was out of town for a few weeks. Vet #2 has no rat knowledge because I have been there before, they wouldn't give me Doxy for head-tilt and held up my rat by the tail. I called all the vets in this area with NO LUCK...not even one of them would see us and were willing to figure out the issue.

The issue? They have both contracted very bad URI's literally overnight.


I sent Miranda (the girl who I had fostered her 3 rats before) a text and she has the meds on hand. She went to the post office today and had them mailed over night to me. They will not arrive until 3pm tomorrow. I am taking the day off of work to keep both boys as comfy as possible.

All I have on hand is Baytril and that is not a strong enough medication to tackle this.



I am so angry and upset that I didn't even receive a letter in the mail saying I soon would not have a rat vet. I have an emergency and there are no vets who can help me. I don't know what to do....

As of just a little while ago I noticed Spartan is acting up. I think what is happening is a "myco" flare up. With no vets to help me and limited meds coming in the mail tomorrow...the news does not look good.

At this point, I do not think my Nakie Ralphie will make it through the night. I have a heating pad on the cage and have done all that I can to make them comfortable.


I've lost Zaide (our kitten), Spook (my baby foster rat), Mace (a piggie I adopted out to Alicia), and now possibly my three rat boys.


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## seniorcats (Nov 4, 2008)

Amy, what meds do you need? If I have it, I will overnight it tomorrow. I have a lot Clindamycin liquid. Can you use it?

I would give them the Baytril anyway just to have them on something. Do you have any TSC's or feed and grain or farmer's supply stores where you can buy your own antibiotic?


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## NorthernAutumn (Nov 4, 2008)

:hug: I'm sorry Amy... I don't know anything about ratties... Saying prayers for you and your little ones.
ray: I hope everybody feels better really soon... Sorry I can't do more for you


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## undergunfire (Nov 4, 2008)

I asked and Clindamycin liquid won't help, I asked. A lady from the rat forum said that a Baytril/Doxy combo is best.

I don't have TSC near me. Do they sell Baytril or Doxy?


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## seniorcats (Nov 5, 2008)

I'm not sure on the Baytril or Doxy. Ours has various penicillins, terramycin, tetracycline - mostly as injectibles on the penicillin. Sometimes it varies from store to store. Can a local vet call your old vet who moved away and get help over the phone?


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## undergunfire (Nov 5, 2008)

*seniorcats wrote: *


> I'm not sure on the Baytril or Doxy. Ours has various penicillins, terramycin, tetracycline - mostly as injectibles on the penicillin. Sometimes it varies from store to store. Can a local vet call your old vet who moved away and get help over the phone?



I am going to try to figure something out tomorrow, in case the meds Miranda sent are not enough. Some vet HAS to do something for me.

It's just not fair, arg.


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## seniorcats (Nov 5, 2008)

Doxycycline is a variety of tetracycline. Don't stores that sell fish sell tetracycline for them without a prescription? I could swear I've seen it. 

I double checked my drug drawer and there is a small amt of Orbax and Albon. Put in a call to my friend Beth at the shelter to see what drugs she might have on hand.


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## undergunfire (Nov 5, 2008)

Thank you so much, seniorcats!

The rat lady I have been talking to is a vet tech, so she was helping me a lot. I am trying to do more research, though.

Fish stores do sell meds for fish...but I am not sure if they are the same for rats. I'll find out, though...


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 5, 2008)

Amy, just a thought....... you don't have any of those little edible huts/furniture they have been making/selling do you? the pressed hay mix?


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## Michaela (Nov 5, 2008)

Any updates?

I really hope your boys are ok Amy! ray:


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## JadeIcing (Nov 5, 2008)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> Amy, just a thought....... you don't have any of those little edible huts/furniture they have been making/selling do you? the pressed hay mix?



No she doesn't.


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 5, 2008)

Thanks, Ali. I hate those things and I swear they killed our last rat.

I'm praying for these guys. I love her boys. We talk about nakie Ralphie all the time. We want a nakie cause of him.... 

ray:


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## JadeIcing (Nov 5, 2008)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> Thanks, Ali. I hate those things and I swear they killed our last rat.
> 
> I'm praying for these guys. I love her boys. We talk about nakie Ralphie all the time. We want a nakie cause of him....
> 
> ray:


She and I have discussed those things since we first saw them. I have heard several people have healthy animals than get that. Some how there animals become ill and I just don't trust them.


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## EileenH (Nov 5, 2008)

How is it going? I'm thinking of you & your crew, it's so scary, I know....

Keep us posted.


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## MissBinky (Nov 5, 2008)

Oh no I know how much you love them Amy, I hope they will all pull through ok. Thinking of you :rose:


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## undergunfire (Nov 5, 2008)

With talking to Lise, it is pneumonia. The boys will not take a mixture of chocolate Ensure & water through the syringe...not even by drinking it from the dish. They show now interest in eating. When I try to force it into them, it throws them into a breathing attack. They sound like huffing squeaky toys.

I am heart broken. I may go from 3 tubby boys to no tubby boys. I can't expect a "win" from this because if I let myself think they will make it...I may be let down in the end. I am really hoping they will pull out of it. I hope that Miranda has sent a lot of the medications we need. If not, tomorrow we will be going to our vet and demanding that Dr. Batt (my now bunny vet) sees them. They HAVE to have books or something there to look up information. We are going to go by Ryan's mom's house tonight to print out information to give to them.

It's just not fair.


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## TinysMom (Nov 5, 2008)

:hug1

I can't do more than that - I'm sorry.


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## undergunfire (Nov 5, 2008)

The Doxy just arrived in the mail :bow. I am waiting for some one on the rat forum help me with the dosages of Doxy & Baytril.

Please send happy healing vibes for my boys :hearts.


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## LedaHartwood (Nov 5, 2008)

Nothing but love and good thoughts headed your way, from me and all my bunnies!


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## Cove (Nov 5, 2008)

Sending good vibes your way, hope all will be OK.

ray:


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## RexyRex (Nov 5, 2008)

ray: Sending you and your ratties all of the good vibes I've got!!


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## undergunfire (Nov 5, 2008)

I got their meds into them. They are ticked off at me. All the struggling to get the meds into the mouths made them breathe harder.


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 5, 2008)

Amy, how are they doing tonight? 

I've been thinking of them all day. Poor guys


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## MissBinky (Nov 5, 2008)

*waiting for updates* :rose:


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## undergunfire (Nov 5, 2008)

Well, no one is out of the blue, that is for sure. Their breathing is still terrible, but they have seemed to perk up since medicating and eating a bit of baby food.

It hurts so bad to see them breathing the way they are. It must be very uncomfortable.


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## MissBinky (Nov 5, 2008)

Poor lil guys... Hug them for me will ya? I hope they'll be feeling better soon. :rose:


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## undergunfire (Nov 6, 2008)

*MissBinky wrote: *


> Poor lil guys... Hug them for me will ya? I hope they'll be feeling better soon. :rose:


I'll give them a little pat . They are not fond of me right now because of having to force meds down their throats. That is what makes me sad...if I lose them....their last time with me could be me being the bad guy shoving meds down their throats :?.

It is tough taking care of them when they are sick. I don't know how some people keep up with taking care of more serious medical issues. I give them so much credit.


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## MissBinky (Nov 6, 2008)

Awww don't think like that, you're doing everything you can. I'm sure if something were to happen that it wouldn't be their last thought. :hug:Let's just foocus on the present though, let's abstain from thinking about possibilities.:sickbunny:

Get better for your momma boys!


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## YukonDaisy (Nov 6, 2008)

*Sorry to hear about your boys being sick, Amy. We'll send get well vibes to them!*


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## SnowyShiloh (Nov 6, 2008)

How are the boys now? Poor babies  At Petco the other day there were two big squishy boys up for adoption, their owners didn't want them anymore. They were very sweet boys though and HUGE, even compared to my Colby Jack. Unfortunately we couldn't take them home, and they were gone today so someone else must have taken them, but they made me think of your boys.


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## undergunfire (Nov 6, 2008)

The boys are doing fine, again, not totally better...but they are hanging in there. They are so ticked at me! Spartan gave me the butt. He kept licking my hands between me forcing meds down his throat...maybe as if to say, "Mama, pleeeeeease stop, I'll be a good boy!". Ugh, so sad.

I have to go back to work today. I hope they will be fine all day alone.

I think I found a place online to order Baytril tablets without a prescription. This means that I can get both Baytril and Doxy now. It is very expensive, though, but probably less expensive then the vets. I would just have to learn how to split up the pills and grind them down myself. I don't think I can take them to a pharmacy to have them done.


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 6, 2008)

Poor Spartan. I know it's awful. i'm praying for those boys! Let us know how they are when you can.


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## seniorcats (Nov 6, 2008)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> I think I found a place online to order Baytril tablets without a prescription. This means that I can get both Baytril and Doxy now. It is very expensive, though, but probably less expensive then the vets. I would just have to learn how to split up the pills and grind them down myself. I don't think I can take them to a pharmacy to have them done.



This site illustrates pill splitters and crushers. http://www.forgettingthepill.com/tools.html

The above are way more expensive then we paid at WalMart.The same pill splitter was just a few dollars. We bought a similar mortar and pestle in the gadget section at a cooking store for about $5. A bowl and the back of a spoon will work in a pinch. Just apply a lot of pressure. I would check out the discount stores before ordering these particular items on line. 

I hope you ratties get better soon and I look forward to pics of Nakkie Ralphie.


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## undergunfire (Nov 6, 2008)

Thank you seniorcats, the information you provided will come in handy!


I just got home from work a bit ago and every one looks the same. I do notice Spartan is breathing worse...maybe because he was at the bottom of the "rat pile" in the hammock?

I'm at an odd point where I know their breathing must hurt them. They aren't really eating. It's like...do I let them be this way and give them a chance.....or is this too far along and they are in too much pain to get better?


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## MissBinky (Nov 6, 2008)

I think you should keep going, knowing you, if you are still in doubt, it means you still see hope in them :hug:I really hope they pull through ok! I don't know if it could do anything for rats, but when I've had sick kittens or rabbits, I burnt some pure eucalyptus oil at a distance. Kind of like us using Vicks... I have no idea how much more sensitive rats are to smells and all and if it's practical, but I thought I'd throw the idea out there. That and steam showers?


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## slavetoabunny (Nov 6, 2008)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> I think I found a place online to order Baytril tablets without a prescription.


Can you share this with me? PM if you don't want to post it on the board. We have been looking for a source to order some bulk baytril for our rescue. We pay about $1 per pill at the vet and are looking at ways to cut expenses.


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## undergunfire (Nov 6, 2008)

*slavetoabunny wrote: *


> *undergunfire wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I think I found a place online to order Baytril tablets without a prescription.
> ...



PM sent .


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## slavetoabunny (Nov 6, 2008)

Got it. Thanks Amy!


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## undergunfire (Nov 6, 2008)

Last time I checked Spartan and Louie were at the "feeding station" slopping down a ton of warmed baby food. Ralphie is being stubborn and won't eat it. I hope he will eat some while I am not in there.


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 6, 2008)

I havent' had a chance to read this over again, but do you have a humidifier running for them? It might help but I don't know for sure.


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## undergunfire (Nov 6, 2008)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> I havent' had a chance to read this over again, but do you have a humidifier running for them? It might help but I don't know for sure.


Nope, but I was thinking about buying one. Do they sell warm ones? A cold one wouldn't work for them.

I do shower steams, but it really doesn't seem to help them, in all honesty.


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 6, 2008)

That's a vaporizor. They do have those. When the kids had pneumonia as babies they said cool air, but I was thinking the warmer air would probably be better for ratties.

Here, we also put pans of water on the stove or heat vents to help add moisture sometimes....... there, tho, I would go for the vaporizor. don't add anything to it like the VICK's stuff....... it would get the stuff out of their airway so quick I think it would choke them. Don't put the steam really close either cause it could chill them.


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## undergunfire (Nov 7, 2008)

Thank you, Pennie (did I spell that right?). I will try to go pick one up tomorrow.

Rats don't have flem or anything like that. I have read that putting a little bit of Vick's in their cage may help them, but I worry if it would burn their eyes.

Would the vaporizer cause harm to the bunnies, as they are in the same room?


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 7, 2008)

It shouldn't. It's just heated water. I might not have it get real strong in there.Could you isolate the ratties somewhere?


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## undergunfire (Nov 7, 2008)

I couldn't isolate the rats. The back bedroom used to be a garage, so there is no heat in there. The only other room is our bedroom....Sammy and Juju would pester the rats. I'll try to pick one up today and try it in the animal room. I'll be able to tell if the bunnies are bothered by it.


I medicated every one this morning. Louie gets sooo wormed up. As soon as I put my hand in the cage he takes off, he really dislikes me right now.

Spartan seems to be doing the best out of anyone. He started showing signs later than them, though. Ralphie seems to be a little more alert.

With rats, it is...back and forth, back and forth. One day they look fine, the next they are terrible, ect.


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## MissBinky (Nov 7, 2008)

I guess it's a good thing they have the energy to run away from you. Still thinking of you guys


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## aurora369 (Nov 7, 2008)

A steamer/humidifier is fine for the buns. 

I was actually told to use one by a vet when I was fostering a baby with a URI. The other bunnies didn't care when I had the steamer on, and no adverse effects.

The vet told me to run the steamer with eucalyptus oil. I use that on myself now when I've got a stuffy nose.

--Dawn


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## MissBinky (Nov 7, 2008)

Yep, that's what I used in the past. Worked very well for all of mine luckily I don't have much experience with rats though so I really couldn't know if it'd work as well but I guess it must be worth looking into.


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 7, 2008)

We used to use the Vick's Vapor Steam for the babies when they were sick (my niece and Luke had RSV their first year and Lexi had pneumonia at a year old - kids!) It worked out all the gunk in their sinuses, but I didn't know if that would be ok for the animals...... and we never used as much as they said to on the bottle.


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## undergunfire (Nov 8, 2008)

Every one is doing fine...except Louie. He seems to have a lump in his throat and looks like he has a dewlap. Not sure why, but I am going to research now. Louie is still eating and drinking, but I am not sure what to do. After their dose of meds tonight at 6pm, it will be day 3 of medicating. I was told by day 3-4, if they are not improving, then I need to think about euthanasia :?.

Spartan is honestly back to his fat old happy self. Ralphie is almost on his way to being the same shy/reserved boy he was before...just a bit skinnier. Both of their not-normal breathing is noticeable, but they are definitely improving. They may never breathe the same again, though, because pneumonia scars the lungs.


I have videos to show, but I will have to upload them to the computer, then to youtube, so expect them to come a bit later today.


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## EileenH (Nov 9, 2008)

How're the boys today? How is Louie doing?


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## undergunfire (Nov 9, 2008)

The boys are doing fine . Louie even looks a bit better this morning . Hopefully he will keep being a little fighter!


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 9, 2008)

That's GREAT! I hope they continue to get better and stay better!


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## EileenH (Nov 9, 2008)

Hooray! Even with Louie's dewlap thingy..you've seen rats with huge mammary tumors, and they do just fine. If he's eating & is relatively happy, let the boy do his thing.

Rats are hard. I haven't had any in a few years aftertoo many pituitary tumors in a row, butlast AugustItook Bluemoon's (from Goosemoose's site) "foster" PEW, since she couldn't take him with her to vet school. He is about 3 1/2 years old, looks great; good weight, no porphyrin. But you can't handle him; he was born in a shelter when his mom was surrendered, and since he's a PEW nobody ever wanted him and he didn't get handled in the shelter. He's lived his life after the shelterwith her, and now will live the rest of it with me. But he has chronic respiratory issues, and it's so hard to watch. He's getting a little nicer to us, but I wouldn't trust touching him. He'll eagerly (and snatchily) take yogies from forceps. But the breathing...it's tough.


Glad your boys are feeling better.


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## undergunfire (Nov 9, 2008)

I'm getting flamed on goosemoose by someone for not quarantining :grumpy:. Here is what I had to say to that....

_"I don't quarantine because I can't. I'm not one of the lucky ones who has awesome family members who will let rats into their house. I don't have friends, so there is no possibility of quarantining there. Not having a place to quarantine will not stop me from adding in a new rat....especially rats they would other wise end up let loose outside or end up as snake food. All of the rats I take in are from those types of situations, I don't just walk into pet stores and buy rats because they are cute....like many here on the forum do. Look around here and read....there are MANY on this forum that do not quarantine because they do not have a place to do so."_


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 9, 2008)

I don't know what is wrong with Tony's eye but I can't take him someplace else either. I have to just keep him here and we wash really well before we tough the other animals.


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## undergunfire (Nov 9, 2008)

Well, Louie's throat isn't swollen any more and he is looking much better today.


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 9, 2008)

You can't isolate them - they all have been together and they all have it right? what are you supposed to do?


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## undergunfire (Nov 9, 2008)

My three boys are/were sick, not the girls...they show no symptoms of being sick. Spartan is totally better, as is Ralphie. It is just Louie now, who IS getting better.

Rat people can be extreme. They say to quarantine new rats at someone else's house where no rats are present for a minimum of 3 weeks, and if you go to the quarantine house, then you have to wait at least 2 hours before returning to your house. They also say that when you go into a pet store or someone else's house that has rats...that you need to wait at least 2 hours before returning home. For some people, it is just not possible.

Rats harbor illnesses such as myco, SDA, and Sendai. By exposing your rats to "new" rats, you can infect your rats....which they get URI's...which can lead to pneumonia.

I have tried to explain to some extremests on the rat forum that not every one is lucky enough to have a quarantine home or a rat good rat vet that will hand over medication without seeing the sick rat.


I can name you at least 6 different VERY RECENT threads on the rat forum where members have ventured into pet stores, PAID (supported the pet store for their wrong) for that rat, and walked out with a rat to bring straight home to their house...where they also have rats. 

But, yet....I get flamed for RESCUING (not paying for) rats from snake food and bringing them home. If it were not for me, the many rats I have fostered (including Ralphie) would be dead by now. I take a risk of my boys getting sick by saving lives....I don't really see extreme wrong in that.


What some rat people don't understand is that I could bring home one of those rat illnesses by just going to the grocery store or leaving a window open (if neighbors have rats). The illness stays present in the nostrils of your nose or on your clothes.


Nothing is ever good enough for some people. I really wish there was a rat forum out there that existed with nice members....like RO. Every rat forum I have ever been apart of has member that pick and pick at each other and point fingers. It really sucks and puts out a bad image for some rat people who are nice and understanding.


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## trailsend (Nov 9, 2008)

Hi Amy! I've been away forever and a day, and am just reading this now. I'm so sorry your babies are not feeling well. I hope they recover steadily and that they will be alright. 

I'm so sorry about the people on the rat forum - don't let it get to you. You know very well how to care for your rats and you are wonderful with and to them. You are right about people being nicer on RO. I know people can be such idiots sometimes and it's not helpful at all. 

Best of luck with the rats, I'll be thinking of you.


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 10, 2008)

I understand completely, Amy. I forgot you had girls there too. 

Don't sweat it.


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## undergunfire (Nov 10, 2008)

The girls are still fine as of this morning, no sneezes and clear eyes & nose. If it was SDA or something, I would certainly think they would have gotten it by now or started showing URI symptoms...so I know it wasn't them who transferred an illness to my boys.

Rats have myco flare ups, so that is definitely what this is. Two older lady friends in town are dealing with the same thing right now with their rats. Maybe it's the huge sudden change in weather we have had here...


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 10, 2008)

I would imagine that is possible, Amy. We get weather changes a lot (like we wore shorts last week and it was spitting snow flurries yesterday!) and people, and animals get cold/allergy symptoms from it. 

I'm glad the girls aren't sick. I hope everyone stays healthy. It's so scary when they get sick and we can't fix them right quick!


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## undergunfire (Nov 10, 2008)

Well, it went from hot summer to freezing, to hot summer, to freezing to....SNOWING LAST NIGHT :shock:.


I'm calling Dr. Batt, my new bunny vet, today to see if she can work with me when the boys get sick again or if I need her for vet care for them. Basically....I'll beg until I cry and feel like an idiot.


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## MissBinky (Nov 10, 2008)

Hey Amy, i am glad to hear that the boys are starting to feel better. Way to go


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## MissBinky (Nov 12, 2008)

Hi Amy, just wanting to check in on you and the boys... I hope everyone is doing alright :rose:


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## undergunfire (Nov 12, 2008)

The boys are 90% better :biggrin2:. The baytril pills came in the mail today, so I have to pick up strawberry syrup tomorrow to mix it with.


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