# A cat is hunting for my rabbits



## Thumperina (Nov 20, 2012)

My rabbits live in the backyard. They have a hutch but it's rather small (was intended for 2 rabbits, but now we have 4). We have been building a new, larger hutch (since May, yeah), but I am not sure how soon we can finish it.
Anyway, there is a chain link fence around the back yard, regular for this type of fence height. Part of the front and side yard is fenced with rabbit guard (28in tall) - we needed front for the summer as there is a large tree there and shade. 
We have never had any problems with predators. We are close to the main streets intersection, so we always have some lights and some noise. 
Today I went out to check on my rabbits. One of the bucks is being hormonal and will be neutered soon. As he was chasing the female, I locked female in the front part (I can block space under the back yard gate so they won't fit under the gate). 
I went out just on time. A pretty large black cat I've never seen before was approaching front fence. I quickly chased female to the back and tried to chase the cat away. I couldn't do it. The cat was really insolent and not scared of anything. It sat under my car, then the neighbor's car and then under all cars in the immediate neighborhood. One time it ran really fast towards me, to jump over the fence I guess. I was having a hard time protecting my rabbits. I called for help. My husband helped to get rabbits inside the garage while I was monitoring the cat. 
We secured rabbits for this night in the house (girls) and garage (boys). 
Now I am afraid the cat will be returning. 
- Do they hunt after dark only or during the sunlight too? 
- Is there anything to repel the cat - maybe a smell I could spread around? 
- not sure what you call it (I am a foreigner here) but is there a wire that has sharp thorns? (something that cat would n;t like to climb)
The problem is the there is a daycare adjacent to us and they have tall wooden fence right next to our chain link fence. Should be no problem for the cat to climb that wooden fence and then jump into my yard. Or, the cat could climb a tree on the front and get to the roof, go around and.....
What should I do? Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks!


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## jamesedwardwaller (Nov 20, 2012)

Thumperina wrote:


> My rabbits live in the backyard. They have a hutch but it's rather small (was intended for 2 rabbits, but now we have 4). We have been building a new, larger hutch (since May, yeah), but I am not sure how soon we can finish it.
> Anyway, there is a chain link fence around the back yard, regular for this type of fence height. Part of the front and side yard is fenced with rabbit guard (28in tall) - we needed front for the summer as there is a large tree there and shade.
> We have never had any problems with predators. We are close to the main streets intersection, so we always have some lights and some noise.
> Today I went out to check on my rabbits. One of the bucks is being hormonal and will be neutered soon. As he was chasing the female, I locked female in the front part (I can block space under the back yard gate so they won't fit under the gate).
> ...


--wowza--as you would know,i,m probably too late for any advice,,our house rabbit has about 9 --now cats-,living with him,--when these 9-were kittens--the rabbit thought they were his own and possesive of them---but cats are predators as in your case they will not play with or care for your bunz,,-cats will kill them,-it is not a pretty sight to behold,--your only option is to relocate the cage/bunz into a more secure building/garage,..cats can reach into/through quite a small wire cage -and parasites like fleas and chiggers are not friendly anyway,,-sincerely james waller--ray::innocent


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## Nancy McClelland (Nov 20, 2012)

Or trap and relocate the cat. I had Possums kill some of my Koi, so I eliminated the problem.


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## Thumperina (Nov 20, 2012)

*Nancy McClelland wrote: *


> Or trap and relocate the cat. I had Possums kill some of my Koi, so I eliminated the problem.


yeah trap sounds great! I just wish I knew how to trap a pretty long area along the fence. 

Do you think I need to try to determine whose cat it was? Talking to the owner wouldn't help, right?


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## Thumperina (Nov 20, 2012)

Do they hunt after dark only? IS there a possibility that cat returns during the day? 
Do cats have good memory about stuff like location of rabbits?


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## Ilovemyrabbit (Nov 20, 2012)

I don't think you should trap and relocate it, because I read that if you relocate a cat the shock will kill it.

And maybe talking to the owner would help, after all the cat is trespassing on your property.

And yes, I read that cats typically hunt after dark and in the day, so never leave your buns unsupervised outside. And yes they do have good memory.


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## Imbrium (Nov 20, 2012)

I see the strays that adopted me out at all hours of the day/night.

you could try feeding the cat. it'd keep it from being hungry for bunnies and if you feed in a specific location at the same time every day, the cat will learn "go to this spot at this time for food". once you train the cat, you can skip feeding it for a day or two and then bait a humane trap for it and put it out in the regular place at the regular time. (I just learned all about trapping cats from a class for my city's TNR (trap-neuter-return) program 'cause I wanna get my strays fixed/vaccinated)


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## Thumperina (Nov 20, 2012)

I don't even know from what direction to expect this cat (to feed). Never seen it before. 
Thanks for advise everybody! It is very appreciated.
Yesterday, while I was chasing the cat, a little wild rabbit crossed our way and ran away. I thought that wild rabbits have more chance to escape as they are not limited by fences. They in general are more used to look for predators and stay away from them. IMHO


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## Imbrium (Nov 20, 2012)

if you put food out in a spot that's convenient for you, chances are he'll find it.

you could also call animal control and see if there's anything they could do to help.


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## Thumperina (Nov 20, 2012)

What to tell animal control if cat is there once in a while? Actually I think I have seen this cat before (very rarely), but I chased it away really easily. I was surprised how persistent and insolent this cat was.

Is it OK (and legal) to call animal control for animals that can be someone's?


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## Ilovemyrabbit (Nov 20, 2012)

*Thumperina wrote: *


> What to tell animal control if cat is there once in a while? Actually I think I have seen this cat before (very rarely), but I chased it away really easily. I was surprised how persistent and insolent this cat was.
> 
> Is it OK (and legal) to call animal control for animals that can be someone's?


I wouldn't call animal control if the cat is owned by someone, Maybe you can speak with the owner about the cat, and how it is putting your rabbits in danger. They will have to do something.


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## Thumperina (Nov 20, 2012)

my neighbor said she was suggested to put chicken wire on the ground to repel cats from pooping in the garden. She said it kept them away pretty well. 
Anybody heard about this method? She said they don't like to step on chicken wire


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## Thumperina (Nov 20, 2012)

*â¥Ilovemyrabbitâ¥ wrote: *


> *Thumperina wrote: *
> 
> 
> > What to tell animal control if cat is there once in a while? Actually I think I have seen this cat before (very rarely), but I chased it away really easily. I was surprised how persistent and insolent this cat was.
> ...


anyway, a person who knows a lot about rules in our association told me that animal control wouldn't catch the cat - I would have to to catch it myself and then they might come and get it. 
Is this how it works?


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## Thumperina (Nov 20, 2012)

Yes, the cat was there again at 5.45 pm, as soon as it got dark. We kept it away, I sprayed vinegar towards the cat and also on the wooden fence.


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## ajohal (Nov 21, 2012)

I had a problem with a neighbour's cat too. I read that one way to get rid is to chuck water on them cos they hate it. I felt that was a little cruel so what i did was, every time i saw it id aim the water at it but make sure i hit the spot right next to the cat and it would run off. It worked after a few times it stopped coming


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## 1357bunnylover (Nov 21, 2012)

Cats hunt at any time of the day, someone near me had her 10 week old bunny eaten by a cat  it was so so sad but it happens so I'd watch your bunnies and make sure the cat can never get near them.. If the cat wants the rabbits nothing will stop him from coming into your garden to get them just make sure there is no way the cat can get them, cats always try to get my bunnies I've tried water throwing, garlic, just scaring I've tried everything, because if a cat wants to hunt something nothing will stop them, thankfully my bunnies have a safe shed and run


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## ZoeStevens (Nov 21, 2012)

- Borrow a humane live trap. Trap the cat near where the rabbits live. Release the cat immediately. Repeat if necessarily. It will not take long for the cat to avoid that area. 

- Find out who owns the cat and ask them to keep the cat indoors (there is plenty of literature online about why cats are much better off indoors). If they are nice people they will do their best. If they react badly, ask them if they would be willing to help you, financially, in cat-proofing your rabbit area. Close by saying that if the cat kills a rabbit you will be charging them for the replacement.

- Cat-proof an area for your rabbit. I had to drop $400 on a chicken run this summer after a fox got a couple of my hens.

There lots of smells that cats hate (hot pepper, citrus come to mind) however they may also bother the bunnies.


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## Hyatt101 (Nov 21, 2012)

Wow, thats not good! Poor bunnies  Try to find the owner would be my best answer. I hope your bunnies are okay!


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## Hyatt101 (Nov 21, 2012)

ZoeSteven's idea sounds pretty good


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## ZoeStevens (Nov 21, 2012)

Thanks  I work with stray/feral cats--- I know far more about them than rabbits! Heh.

Question: how big are your rabbits? If they are larger, you might not need to worry at all. Cats aren't stupid and will not try to take down a rabbit their size unless they are REALLY hungry. Someone else suggested to feed the cat which is good advice if the cat is hungry-hunting (I have a feral cat in my yard that I feed - he eats a lot of kibble so I can't imagine he hunts much). However, some cats will kill prey regardless of whether they are hungry.

Honestly my best advice for OP would be to build a predator-proof rabbit area or rabbit tractor (a bottomless cage you can move around so they can eat fresh grass). Although it might not seem like it there are many predators in urban and suburban areas - fisher cats, raccoons, coyotes, cats, stray dogs. Even if you get this cat kept indoors, who knows about the next one.

If you Google "Rabbit enclosure" and look in images there are lots of good ideas. It's expensive but it's the only way to guarantee the safety of your buns.


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## Thumperina (Nov 21, 2012)

Two of my rabbits are pretty large or average size. One is the neutered buck who became lazy. If I am sure that female can protect herself, the lazy male may not be quick enough.

Two others are 4 months old. They are getting close to the parents' size but not fully grown yet. Anyway, they are not little. 
The cat is also a large cat unfortunately. I have a feeling it lives a few houses away and is let out at the dark only. I will keep asking people whose cat it is.

I don't trim their nails specifically for the reason of protection. They also like to dig. 

A question - is it legal to charge the cat if it kills a rabbit? How can I prove that exactly this cat killed the rabbit? 

We have had the rabbits since March and nothing ever happened. We even had the hutch on the front for a long time (during summer) which only has "rabbit guard" fence (28in tall)


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## Thumperina (Nov 21, 2012)

*ZoeStevens wrote: *


> - Borrow a humane live trap. Trap the cat near where the rabbits live.


What is it like and how to borrow one? you mean to go to humane society (or animal control ?) and ask for one?


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## Thumperina (Nov 21, 2012)

*ajohal wrote: *


> I had a problem with a neighbour's cat too. I read that one way to get rid is to chuck water on them cos they hate it. I felt that was a little cruel so what i did was, every time i saw it id aim the water at it but make sure i hit the spot right next to the cat and it would run off. It worked after a few times it stopped coming


The problem is that I'd like to come inside and do some things with my family. I have been monitoring with the flashlight for the cat for the last 3 days since 6pm. A bit tired of it. But I hope I got him scared. Was chasing him with the spray bottle of vinegar. 
One time he climbed a tree. I came by. Could see him pretty well. I wish I could trap him then. But we were on somebody's front yard. I am lucky that people haven't called the police yet.


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## JBun (Nov 21, 2012)

See if animal control has a humane trap you can use. Technically if the cat is trespassing on your property, you have every right to trap it on your property, and take it to animal control. That isn't the most desirable thing if it's a neighbors cat, but you may not have another choice. You could send out flyers to your neighbors and maybe post a few in the neighborhood, saying that this cat is trying to kill your rabbits and that you need to find it's owner. If you don't get a response, you don't really have another choice but to trap it so it doesn't get your rabbits.


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## ajohal (Nov 22, 2012)

The problem is that I'd like to come inside and do some things with my family. I have been monitoring with the flashlight for the cat for the last 3 days since 6pm. A bit tired of it. But I hope I got him scared. Was chasing him with the spray bottle of vinegar. 
One time he climbed a tree. I came by. Could see him pretty well. I wish I could trap him then. But we were on somebody's front yard. I am lucky that people haven't called the police yet. 
[/quote]

Is there somewhere enclosed the rabbits can live? If you have a garage could you think about parking your cars on your drive and putting the hutches in there? 

That's what I did because I also had foxes after my rabbits, so I now have the rabbits in a garage which means I don't have to worry over night and can also get on with my day too!

I know other people have used sheds and things like that too!


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## ZoeStevens (Nov 22, 2012)

*Thumperina wrote: *


> A question - is it legal to charge the cat if it kills a rabbit? How can I prove that exactly this cat killed the rabbit?
> 
> We have had the rabbits since March and nothing ever happened. We even had the hutch on the front for a long time (during summer) which only has "rabbit guard" fence (28in tall)


Only if you can prove the cat is responsible. If you can prove it, you can absolutely legally pursue the owner for the value of the rabbit. If you are sure it was the cat but are unable to prove it, all you can do is talk to the neighbour and hope for the best.

I had my hens out for months before any of them got picked off  It is quite possible that you could leave your buns out forever and no one ever eat one but no one expects to have their pets eaten in their back yard. Around here, fisher cats eat cats and small dogs. Until it happens, everyone says "nothing ever happened". I am not trying to be a smartarse with you or anything as you are obviously more familiar with your area than I am. But personally, I would invest rather than take a risk.

*Thumperina wrote: *


> *ZoeStevens wrote: *
> 
> 
> > - Borrow a humane live trap. Trap the cat near where the rabbits live.
> ...


A humane trap is basically a long wire box. The cat walks in to get to the food at the back, steps on the trip plate, and the door closes behind the cat. Harmless. But you have to stick around obviously as the cat could get injured or die if left in the trap unattended for too long (exposure to the elements, other predators, people, etc etc). Check with your local cat rescues and humane society. We rent ours out for $80. The humane society here rents them out for $150. Which is refunded when the trap is returned. Also check your local classifieds, sometimes they come up for sale for cheap.


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## Imbrium (Nov 22, 2012)

looks like this... cat goes in, goes all the way to the back, steps on the trip plate and the little bar by the door stops holding the door up, so it falls closed.


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## Thumperina (Nov 22, 2012)

Yes I do let rabbits inside the garage - we don't park there. I have one male who is being hormonal recently (will be neutered on Monday due to places being closed for Thanksgiving) so I can't keep them all together. LAst night boys went to garage and girls - into the house. I was listening to a fight through the sleep and somebody was running fast in the house (rabbits I mean). 
We also do get them into garage when it's too cold or windy.
But I don't want to keep them in garage or house all day long - they are used to be outdoors and we are having a warm nice weather


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## Kipcha (Nov 22, 2012)

Personally, I would nip the problem in the bud and trap the cat, bring it to the shelter and let the owner deal with it. Even if the cat doesn't necessarily kill the rabbit, a simple scratch can result in a severe injury to the bun since cats have bacteria in their teeth and claws that can kill a rabbit.

But my rabbits are family, and to be honest I would resort to any measure to protect them. I would not wait for something to happen before acting, it would not be a matter of replacing the cost for the rabbit. It's the same way I treat my dog, my horses, my chinchilla and my rabbits. Nothing hurts them if I can help it.

In all honesty, if I came on a situation where a cat was stalking my rabbits like that one was, I probably would have turned the hose on it. Less harm done to the cat then it would have done to my buns. We had a situation once where a cat attacked my dog (Which was completely minding his own business, on leash, walking down a sidewalk) while we were out on a walk and have seen how nasty it can get. I'd be making sure that cat didn't come back. I wouldn't hurt it, but I'd not be gentle about chasing it away either. 

But that's just personal opinion.


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## Thumperina (Nov 22, 2012)

Right, I care less about cat's comfort. What is bothering me is that to do anything about the cat, I have to be outside watching for it in the dark. I have other things to do (for example, separating the rabbits and watching them not to fight is not an easy task). 
The cat was seen by me yesterday on his way to my house but I chased it away (with vinegar) so it didn't come back close yesterday. Today we haven't seen it but it doesn't mean it won't be back. Good idea about the hose, thanks!
I asked people at whose front yard cat's seen most of the time - they said that cat wasn't their.


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## Thumperina (Nov 22, 2012)

My husband said he would relocate the cat 10 miles away, but it's the same husband who sprayed ant killer INSIDE the area that bunnies had access to. 
My problem is that rabbits keep being loose in the yard most part of the day. I know other owners do not probably keep rabbits loose. We working on the new hutch, so hopefully they will spend more time secured in the hutch when it's ready.

I don't know how to eliminate the cat without standing outside looking in the dark (the cat is black by the way and comes only when it's dark) -- we'll keep an eye on it.


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## Kipcha (Nov 23, 2012)

I would just recommend bringing it in to animal control... Or if you can't find who it belongs to and it's friendly, maybe a no-kill shelter if you have any nearby? Have you had a chance to see if he is possibly friendly with people? It'd be nice to think he could find a good home rather then roaming around and starving  It sounds pretty bold so it must be hungry.

You may have mentioned it's personality with people and I merely missed it...


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## woahlookitsme (Nov 23, 2012)

I don't know if I would recommend feeding the cat. Usually that means more will come. . .

Others have suggested trapping and I think it's a good idea. Most rescues have traps on hand and maybe a vet? 

Other suggestions could you set up a sprinkler? Sort of takes your place and creates noise. Another thing would be spray the cat with a hose instead of vinegar. This will be less work for you because a hose reaches farther than a spray bottle. Other than a sprinkler I can't think of anything else that you can put outside to take your place


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## ZoeStevens (Nov 23, 2012)

I wouldn't worry about the cat's comfort UNLESS it's really cold out. If it's freezing, don't spray it with a hose. If it's not freezing, spray it all you want. It'll survive.

You don't have to stand there and watch the trap. You'll probably hear it close, and just keep an eye on it every hour or so.

I have been thinking more about this and I like the sprinkler suggestion. You can get a sprinkler with a motion sensor. You can also get some motion-control lights. Anyway, as I see it you options are as follows:

- Live-trap the cat. This alone might be enough because cats hate being trapped. Otherwise, you can bring the cat to its owner saying "your cat came after my rabbits so I trapped him, please keep him indoors, if I trap him again I will have to bring him to the shelter." Or go straight to bringing him to the shelter but know that if he is not young and friendly he may be euthanized which would be sad.
*IMO this is a band-aid solution because it only deals with this one cat. I guarantee you there are more predators around that you haven't seen yet (especially with winter coming).

- Observe the cat. Is he actually hunting your rabbits? It wouldn't surprise me if he was but he might just be hanging out. At home I have an angora rabbit, two small parrots and six cats. The only ones who get attacked are the cats, by the birds  That said, I had a hungry stray cat attack my rooster. The cat came away much more banged up than the rooster.
*Again this is just a bandaid

- Speak to the neighbour. Honestly, some people are just clueless. He/she might be mortified to find out what his cat has been up to.
*Again, only deals with this one animal

- Finish your hutch ASAP. Large rabbits in a fenced area in the suburbs are relatively safe during the day. If you can put them in a safe place during dawn, dusk and night, it should be fine.
*This one doesn't address daytime predators but I don't think that is too likely.

- Use deterrents - motion activated lights and sprinkles, spraying the perimeter (outside the fence) with a cayenne-based repellant (google cayenne raccoon repellent for more ideas).
*Repellant needs to be re-applied every few days but it REALLY works. I had racoons or foxes or something trying to dig under my chicken run. It's fort knox but I still didn't want them trying so I put repellant all around every 2 days for a week and they stopped coming. It hurts like hell but it's not permanently damaging. And it doesn't bother birds.
*This is probably your best, cheapest option combined with getting the hutch up ASAP.

- Get a dog. This is kind of a far-fetched idea but if you were thinking about getting a dog, you could get a livestock dog that will protect your rabbits. But then you have to feed the dog, train the dog, vet the dog and walk the dog.

- I know I keep harping on about the run but... this is your #1, first class option that will protect your rabbits from ALL predators, day and night. You can still let them out of the run when you're home during the day. Use 1/2" solid steel mesh so nothing can reach or tear through it.


I would NOT suggest:

- Feeding the cat. If you suspect the cat is stray or feral and is hungry, the kindest thing to do would be to trap it and bring it to a shelter. Feeding it so it won't eat your rabbits will work for a day but you may end up with a cat colony in your back yard. If it's just a local indoor/outdoor cat that likes to hang around, it probably wouldn't hurt to feed it a bit, but I don't think it'll really accomplish anything.
- Standing on your deck and spraying. Mostly because that's a waste of your time and is not a viable long-term solution.
- Trap and relocate the cat. If you take the cat far enough that it won't come back, it will probably starve or get hit by a car wandering around. If it's an owned cat you would be taking away someone's pet (granted, someone irresponsible, but some people just don't know better). If it comes to that, bring it to a shelter.

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Unfortunately any way to eliminate the problem without you standing around all night is going to cost you money and/or require you to do some work, unless you can find the owner of the cat and he agrees to keep the cat indoors. With predators, there is no magic answer, and you have to do what you think is necessary to protect your pets from predators... preferably before you lose a rabbit.

Good luck... keep us posted!

Edited to ad: Just to give you an idea of how pervasive and persistent predators are... there are coyotes in Manhattan and in Queens.


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## Ilovemyrabbit (Nov 23, 2012)

*ZoeStevens wrote: *


> I wouldn't worry about the cat's comfort UNLESS it's really cold out. If it's freezing, don't spray it with a hose. If it's not freezing, spray it all you want. It'll survive.
> 
> You don't have to stand there and watch the trap. You'll probably hear it close, and just keep an eye on it every hour or so.
> 
> ...


:yeahthat:

Do NOT trap and relocate the cat. As the cat will most likely die.


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## Thumperina (Nov 26, 2012)

ZoeStevens, thanks a lot for detailed answer. 
Updates are: nothing has been productively done to eliminate the problem (I am a mom, a student, a worker, etc). 
I was gone for the holidays for 2 days, my husband was home but he works most of the time. As a reminder, except the cat problem, we have young unneutered buck who can't be around both females (he gets neutered tomorrow, what a relief).
My husband was separating them: girls on the front, boys on the back. He gets tired at work so he didn't do as much monitoring or precaution as I do. When I arrived home at 10pm, I found both girls sitting on the front doing all right. And the fence on the front (rabbit guard) is really not that great! 
Today we were working on the hutch in garage when I checked for the cat at the regular time - 6 pm. He was there, but not as close as he used to come at the beginning. He is getting more careful. The problem is that he is in my nearest neighbor's yard and the neighbor doesn't like trespassing (they may already be p*ssed with all the flashlighting in their windows I have been doing). I sprayed cat from the hose, don't know if I got him but he ran away. It will be a little above freezing tonight. 
LAter, I got all the girls into garage so I could release the young rabbit to hop off the cage. Some time later, the older boy rabbit came up the deck to the sliding door that we are using to let them into the house. He seemed anxious so I opened the door for him and went out. I saw the cat near my backyard fence. I sprayed him with water again (it's hard to saw if water got him but he ran away). By this time all the boy rabbit came inside the house. 
You asked if the cat may just be hanging out -- it could be. Rabbits left on the front when I was gone weren't harmed at all (but the husband said he didn't see the cat while I was gone). 
Anyway the problem with trapping is that trap needs to be at the neighbor's yard. I don't know if he likes it. He hires a company to spray against weeds. I already told him to be careful and not to spray any of my grass because of the rabbits. All my territory is fenced. 
Sprinkler could be a good idea if it were not beginning of December. We are getting in a cold freezing weather.


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## JBun (Nov 26, 2012)

I don't know if this is a possibility, but you could try running a hotwire around your top fenceline. It's a fence charger used for horses, that keeps them corraled and so they don't touch or lean on the fence. It wouldn't hurt the cat, but it would definitely frighten it away if it touched the wire.


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## Thumperina (Nov 26, 2012)

To get a dog... no, thank you. Too many problems. 
By the way, parents of my older rabbits (and grandparents of my younger rabbits) were finally eaten by their Labrador.


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## Thumperina (Nov 26, 2012)

*JBun wrote: *


> I don't know if this is a possibility, but you could try running a hotwire around your top fenceline. It's a fence charger used for horses, that keeps them corraled and so they don't touch or lean on the fence. It wouldn't hurt the cat, but it would definitely frighten it away if it touched the wire.


would you please give me a link for the correct one?


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## JBun (Nov 26, 2012)

Here are a few. I think two are plug in,the other is battery operated. You would need to do a little research on how to set it up cause the wire has to be attached to insulators. You may be able to find something cheaper somewhere else.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000LP8CHM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HHO9EE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0042XAP38/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00099FAK2/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## Thumperina (Dec 2, 2012)

I start thinking that the cat is just hanging out there watching the rabbits. 
yesterday I was gone for the whole day, my husband stayed home (doing nothing). When I came back, backyard was all dark (he didn't turn the light on), the first thing I saw when I got there were cat's eyes shining in the light of my flashlight - right by the fence of my yard. Going around the house I found two of my rabbits sitting in the front yard where we have rabbit guard fence - which means cat can really easily to get over it if wanted. I chased cat away and saw that we had a wild rabbit sitting outside of my fence. The cat didn't even catch that wild rabbit! 
I keep asking neighbors, nobody admits to be the cat's owner.
A good thing is that my nearest neighbor on the side where cat is seen set up sprinklers and watering the area that cat trespasses. I just wish he did it after dark


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## Thumperina (Dec 3, 2012)

I was triumphing too early. Right after I typed my previous post, I went out to get rabbits inside the garage for a night. They were sitting in the back yard, like they were having a meeting. The gates to the front were not blocked my the wood so they could easily go to the front yard (the gates stay closed but buns can climb under the gates if there is no wood that blocks the gap). What I saw, shocked me - the cat was sitting INSIDE our fenced front yard. Again, it didn't do anything but it got way too close. I immediately sprayed water. 
I guess tomorrow I will try to get a trap in humane society. What kind of food should I put inside the trap? Should I borrow some dry cat food from my friends? Or canned tuna work better?


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## Imbrium (Dec 3, 2012)

what works as bait can vary depending on the cat (ie certain cats may not like certain baits). you want to use something good-smelling, like canned cat food or tuna rather than dry food.

if the trap doesn't work and changing the bait doesn't work, the cat may be trap-savvy. in this case, you'll want to open BOTH end-doors to the trap, leaving it open all the way through so the cat can't get trapped (propping open the door that normally snaps shut when the cat steps on the trigger plate rather than setting it to where it can be tripped), and bait it with a bit of food in the middle. do this every night for a few nights until he's comfortable going in, then close the back door (ie setting it to actually be a trap) and see if he'll still go in and get caught.

also, if you've been feeding the cat, don't feed him for 1-2 days before you try to trap him... and if you know anyone else who might be feeding him, ask them if they could refrain from doing so for a couple days. if he's used to being fed, the feedings can be skipped for up to three days to help increase the odds of successfully trapping him.

if you have any more questions, feel free to ask me - I recently took a class for my city's TNR (trap-neuter-return) program for managing feral cats, so I learned all about how to safely trap a cat.


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## Thumperina (Dec 3, 2012)

Thank you! 
I just got a trap in humane society. $40 deposit and it's mine for 30 days. Got canned food. 
I asked them if I should go from house to house with the trapped cat and ask whose cat it is. They said NO - you should bring it here if you trap it. Do you agree with this? If I understood right, I can be hold responsible if somebody claims I damaged the cat or anything like this. 
They told not to put food in the bowl but rather put it straight on the ground with trap being put right over it. Do you agree with this as well?

Also I signed under "not to set a trap between 10 pm and 7 am".... so generous I need to be to the cat LOL


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## LakeCondo (Dec 3, 2012)

Trapping this cat won't keep other cats & other animals from going after your rabbit, plus you could start a feud between yourself & the cat's owner. If the cat were injured, you could face a lawsuit. Your rabbits will be much safer inside & won't have to deal with the cold, snow & ice. If they MUST say outside, they should be in an enclosed run.


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## JBun (Dec 3, 2012)

Just do what they said. I can't see how you could be held responsible as long as the cat is trespassing on your property and you trap it on your property. Besides, it is stalking your rabbits! Good luck, hope it works out!


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## Kipcha (Dec 4, 2012)

LakeCondo wrote:


> If the cat were injured, you could face a lawsuit.



The cat is on this persons property, as long as they do not intentionally injure it I don't see how they can be charged. Just make sure you don't do anything that is considered cruel.


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## Thumperina (Dec 4, 2012)

*JBun wrote: *


> Just do what they said. I can't see how you could be held responsible as long as the cat is trespassing on your property and you trap it on your property. Besides, it is stalking your rabbits! Good luck, hope it works out!


Still, I had to sign the paper that I agree not to set the trap from 10pm to 7am. Hope, they won't send the police car to check this as I still have it out Will remove it before I go to sleep (I don't want trap to get stolen) 
The cat hasn't showed up today. Does anyone know why they suggested to put food on the ground, not in the bowl? The problem is that outside the smell is pretty diluted from the fresh breeze. I am not sure if it smells enough to attract the cat. 
WOULD CANNED TUNA BE BETTER THAN CANNED CAT FOOD? Do I need one with oil of water? 
I asked more people today and some said that they had been bothered by this cat as well. 
Do you know what I discovered? My child had in her room on the wall the craft of black cat made out of paper plate - very realistic. She made it two years ago, and it still has been hanging on the wall! I cut it into pieces today.


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## Thumperina (Dec 4, 2012)

*LakeCondo wrote: *


> Trapping this cat won't keep other cats & other animals from going after your rabbit, plus you could start a feud between yourself & the cat's owner. If the cat were injured, you could face a lawsuit. Your rabbits will be much safer inside & won't have to deal with the cold, snow & ice. If they MUST say outside, they should be in an enclosed run.


Please don't worry about the weather conditions and well being of the rabbits  We were taking them indoors in summer when the heat was over 95F. I wish we had snow here but it is just dreams. They have access to garage (analog of barn all the time - I just keep the door open. They spend night in the garage (because of the cat, otherwise I know they would enjoy pretty warm weather we are having). The only thing - I noticed that they eat better at night when indoors, and much better when they are not all together (I have girls in garage and boys in the house for a night. Can't stand girls in the house - they would roam and thump all night long, while boys just sit in their favorite spots). 
I let my rabbits play in the yard because I truly believe that they enjoy it. I never wanted to keep them in the cage all the time, no matter how spacious the cage (or run) is. 
We have had them like this since March (when we got them). haven't lost any rabbit to predator. Never dealed with serious predators - they just don't seem to be here. I already mentioned in other topics that we are near the intersection of 2 main streets + we have some business places near by that have lights all the time + gas station that is noisy and never sleeps. 
I minimize chances for cats or dogs to get the rabbits;


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## ZoeStevens (Dec 4, 2012)

Do what the humane society says with regards to the trapping - they are giving you the right advice. You can trap overnight but you must be there to keep an eye on the trap at least every hour. If the cat won't go into this trap, you can build a drop trap relatively cheap. We cleared out a colony except for one big male that would not go in the trap - we caught him in 10 mins with the drop trap! And he is actually friends once you get him in...

The reason you put the food on the ground, under the trap, is so that when you lift the trap off the ground, the food stays on the ground. If the food/bowl is in the trap with the cat, the cat could get really messy or injured.

Canned tuna or cat food is fine. So are sardines. Get a water based, not an oil based. Basically you want something smelly.

Yes, you can still be charged for cruelty to an animal even if it doesn't belong to you, even if it's accidental (if there was negligence, of course). Usually this is in cases of willful cruelty.

If no one is owning up to owning the cat, he may be a stray. Can you tell his condition - is he skinny or dirty? If so, trap him and bring him to the humane society without a worry. It will be best for him. 

Why did you remove the cardboard cat craft? It was not attracting the cat... He considers your yard part of his territory. I also think he may indeed not be hunting your rabbits because he wasn't gone after them yet. Cats hunt around the clock - if he wanted to, he could have by now. Not that I am saying to take the chance or anything. God I wish people would keep their cats indoors. However ---- there is something called the vacuum effect. When you remove a cat (typically a male, or a colony) from an area and rehome them (or euthanize them), you will find that new cats come into that same territory a relatively short time later because the territory has opened up.

I know you are sick of hearing this but I have to say that I think you are severely underestimating the danger you have put your rabbits in by leaving them in an uncovered back yard, unsupervised, for long amounts of time. Just google "coyotes in the city" and look at the pictures - coyotes trotting through the suburbs during the day. On busy streets at night. INSIDE stores and in the subway (RIDING the subway, on a seat, like a person). Look up "foxes in the city" and you will see the same thing. Raccoons we all know thrive alongside people - they are small and cute but fierce predators, and smart, able to open doors and reach through chicken wire to grab animals, and brave enough to kill relatively large prey. Overhead predators may also exist in your area and while probably unable to fly off with a large rabbit, could injure it or fly off with a smaller one. Plus stray dogs and cats which can jump into or dig into your yard and get at your rabbits.

I would hate to know that you lost a rabbit to something so preventable. You feel safe in the city - most people do - but you're still in the wild and there are still wild animals there. You just don't see them very much. 

I know you say you want to let them out in the yard because you don't want them to be stuck a run, even if it's big. Your yard isn't the wild. It is nothing more than a large run, except it's unprotected. There are many ways you can keep your rabbits safe in a run while still allowing them ample space, and time outside when you are around to supervise.

You haven't even lived there a year yet. People who lose pets to predators do not always do so within the first year. It can happen years, even decades, after they have settled in. And no one expects it. And if a predator gets in your yard, especially a fox or raccoon, it will kill all of your rabbits if it has enough time to.

Of course, they are your rabbits and it is entirely up to you, entirely your choice. But don't fool yourself into thinking that your rabbits are safe just because you live at an intersection and you've only seen one predator in the eight months you've lived there. Your rabbits ARE at risk - it's fairly small but it's not tiny by any means (as in, I am not expecting it to happen tomorrow but I would not be shocked if it did).

PLEASE consider building an enclosed run for them for when you're not home... They will be safe and you know that they are even when you aren't around to see them.


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## Thumperina (Dec 6, 2012)

I don't think that the cat is stray. It looks all right (from what I was able to see in the dark and from the distance). I have never seen it coming during the day so I figure out it is in the house during the day. 
Guess what... since I got the trap and setting it up, the cat is not coming. Maybe the news spread in the area and owner just doesn't let it out? That would be great, I just wonder how much money I am going to waste buying cat food?  You can't feed the same can twice, right? I am afraid that the food would attract other cats. 
You are not quite right that when you lift the trap the food stays on the ground. Food sticks to the bars of the trap pretty well. I have hard times cleaning bars every day. 
Last night I was so tired that I forgot to remove trap that was set to catch (I fell asleep on the sofa in all my clothes). Nobody was there in the morning. 
I will see what we can do about enclosed run.


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## Watermelons (Dec 6, 2012)

You can offer a spoonfull of whatever is in the can on a plate in the trap, and cover the rest and stick it in the fridge, It will be good for a few days so long as it stays covered and in the fridge. 

We have a pesky cat in the neighbourhood, no idea who it belongs too as we see it all over the place. Its nice and fat and is wearing a collar so we know its not a random cat. I just let my dog out after it. The little **** sits around trying to catch the birds at our feeder in the front yard. in the mean time poops all over the place! So Callie gets to have a little fun and I get to scare off the annoying cat for the time being. Next step is a paintball gun....


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## Thumperina (Dec 6, 2012)

I had a cat a long time ago. Every time when I opened a can, it would it the food happily, but when I was giving him leftovers from that can (that I stored in the fridge of course, I used to split the can into two parts) the cat wouldn't touch it. SO I thought it may be how they like it - fresh only


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## Watermelons (Dec 6, 2012)

I've got 5 kittys here (INDOOR ONLY!) and they will all eat their canned food if its been in the can in the fridge for a few days (it never lasts that long but if we get the 13oz cans those last 3+ days and the cats dont care). Some cats dont like it if it gets a tinny taste to it, you can try removing it from the can and keep it in a little sandwich sized zip-loc bag does it doesn't aquire the cans taste while in the fridge.


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## Thumperina (Dec 7, 2012)

I would definitely store the leftovers not in the metal can due to chemical reaction that occurs to the can since opened. Not good for anybody, including kittens.


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## Thumperina (Dec 15, 2012)

Update.
We set up the trap every day but the cat is not showing up.. except for 1 day. 
Last Saturday I was taking my child to the theater show in the evening, we were getting late and I didn't put up the trap. My husband was staying home but he said he didn't feel like messing up with the trap (well, he is another story)
Rabbits were in the yard with garage door opened for them. During the show I felt concerned and went to the hall to send him text message asking to check on bunnies. 
We came home at about 10pm, I opened the door from the house to garage and the first thing I saw was fast movement of somebody dark to the outside. All my rabbits are white or light-brown so I knew it was the cat. I followed him into the back yard. Only one rabbit was sitting moveless in the backyard. The cat ran back and forth like crazy, he couldn't find his way out (the fence is proof everywhere). One time, running, he bumped into that rabbits and they ran together. Anyway, finally the cat pushed pieces of wood that are blocking the gap under the gate, went to the side yard and disappeared. I wish I would follow him to find out where he lives. No way he is a stray cat. But I needed to find the rabbits first. 
Two of them were hiding in the garage, another was still sitting in the backyard. One rabbit was missing but we finally discovered her in the front (thorough where the cat escaped). She probably went there when the cat pushed the wood. Nobody was harmed, but some buns were scared. The one who got bumped by the cat was sitting under my bed for the next day. 
Oh, the husband was found sleeping in the basement, he never checked messages on the phone. 
Now I really want to catch the cat. Please don't tell me again how dangerous to have rabbits loose. I realize it and now watching them when they are out. I always was trying to keep an eye on them checking every 10-15 minutes.
I have a feeling that the cat would only come if it is absolutely quiet and dark like no humans are home (like on that Saturday). I am posting pictures to show the set up. Maybe someone can give me an advise.


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## Thumperina (Dec 15, 2012)




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## Thumperina (Dec 15, 2012)




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## Thumperina (Dec 15, 2012)




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## Thumperina (Dec 15, 2012)

the question - is it better the put trap all the way to the gate? 
Can cat possibly get on the top of the trap and jump over the gate? 
He can't climb chain link fence - I saw this


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## Thumperina (Dec 15, 2012)

I have another problem. New neighbors just moved into the white house that you can see on the pictures. We have just that chain link fence between us. They have 3 large dogs, who will be kept on the back. I am very upset. I asked and they said that dogs can't jump over the fence. They don't bark a lot but I guess it is because rabbits are hiding under the deck (it is where the orange blanket is) 
Can it happen that both dogs and rabbits will get used to each other?


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## Thumperina (Dec 15, 2012)

To the pictures: 
Taller fence goes around the back yard. Rabbit guard (short) fence surrounds some of the side and front yard. We had to put it for the summer as it was getting extremely sunny and hot on the back. Large tree on the front (plus shade from the house) made front much cooler. We had hutch with the newborn bunnies on the front during the summer and had no problems.
You can see a daycare (tall wooden fence).


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## Kipcha (Dec 15, 2012)

Wow, I SO wish I had your yard, that is HUGE!

Anyways, how do the dogs react if they see the rabbit? I mean, it is _possible _that they could get used to each other and nothing happens between them, but personally I would be on the safe side and take some precautions, maybe just making the rabbits as secure of an enclosure as possible.

What kind of dogs are they? I mean, if we're talking Golden Retrievers I would be less concerned then, say, Greyhounds. But yeah, definitely try securing it as much as possible and see what precautions the neighbours are willing to do.


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## Thumperina (Dec 15, 2012)

yes, they have a Golden Retriever. Another dog is a small mutt or maybe poddle. Two other dogs belong to the person who is helping them to move. they don't stay all the time

She said that Golden Retriever can't even jump onto the bed. Some kind of injury.


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## Thumperina (Dec 16, 2012)

today I discovered where the cat lives. I was taking my child to her friends who live at the street parallel to ours, and the cat was walking down the street there. I stopped, he was meowing, I was wondering if I could pet him. I came close, he didn't mind me petting him. I thought I could grab him right there to take to my little trap and then to humane society. Sure I wouldn't do this, for some reasons I think I have no right to grab a cat right by his house to take to humane society. 
Anyway, I looked around, I knocked couple of houses where cat was near by. Both persons told the cat wasn't theirs, but they pointed at the house that might be his. The house didn't look very well maintained. Right on the front porch I saw bowls with cat's food and water (and package with some kind of cat litter) . I rang the doorbell, a young man opened. He confirmed the cat belongs to them. I told him briefly about my problems and that the cat will be trapped if he comes to my yard again. The guy looked young and (sorry) not very intellectual. He said he would tell his mom about everything. 
Now I am thinking if I had the right conversation with that guy.


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## ZoeStevens (Jan 2, 2013)

Just curious, has the cat been around again? I am hoping the family is serious about keeping him indoors!


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## Thumperina (Jan 3, 2013)

The cat hasn't been seen around, BUT it has been freezing cold recently. I returned trap today as 30 days passed. Now, when I know where the cat lives, I can walk by to see what he is doing. Sometimes I don't see him, sometimes he is sitting on his porch. They have another cat and some dogs (I think).
We got golden retriever on another side of chain link fence but they getting along with the rabbits just fine. He is old and can't jump. He tried to bark when I was coming to the backyard to feed the rabbits but not anymore. His owner always takes him in if he barks too much.


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## JBun (Jan 3, 2013)

I'm glad that cat isn't a problem anymore. And at least now you know where it lives and can do something about it if it shows up again.


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## Thumperina (Jan 3, 2013)

Yes, but I feel a little confused as I can't be 100% sure this is the right cat (unless it comes again and I follow him to his house. Anyway, no problem till warmer weather (hopefully)


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## Thumperina (Jan 24, 2013)

not the end of the story yet ... 
Yesterday all the rabbits were outside with me keeping an eye on them. I got out with the broom (thats how they know it is time to get to garage for a night) but they were acting strange. Instead of getting into garage (which they do usually pretty fast as they know that veggies are there waiting for them) they ran from me in different directions. They didn't want to get into garage. 
And then, in a little bit, I saw... him... a cat in my backyard but a different one. This cat was large and friendly, he wanted us to pet him and didn't mind being picked up (I called my husband for help by then). The problem was that I wanted to get buns into garage and then take care of the cat but buns got freaked out and didn't cooperate. 
The only thing that the cat minded were attempts to get him in the pet carrier (we returned trap to humane society) - he scratched my husband's face and me a little. Anyway, we chased him to leave the yard but he was coming back (and the neighbor's dog wasn't out!). He jumped on top of our chain link fence easily. He could sit on the top of the fence (I thought the cat should be uncomfortable sitting there as it is not a bird). 
While the cat was going back and forth (out of the yard and back in, he kept returning and felt like in his own yard) I managed to get two out of 4 rabbits inside the house. Other rabbits hid in the burrow they dug in the yard.
Then I remembered I had exactly one can of cat food left after trying to catch the first cat. I opened it and put towards the far end inside the carrier (pet taxi type). It worked -- he immediately got in and I locked him! I felt really bad about taking such a friendly cat to Humane Society but it was 10 pm and I didn't know what else to do. 
In a bit, remaining rabbits git out of the burrow and I managed to get them in the house as well. 
Cat was meowing in the car but when I sat next to him, he immediately stopped crying. I turned on the music and he rode just fine! They had some kennels with access from outside for drop off after hours. There were a bowl of water there. 
Today we put a notice throughout the neighborhood about the cat (just letting owners know where the cat went). Hope it works and he gets back home. 
Does anybody know if people need to pay anything if they release their pet from humane society? Don't want people to be mad at me. If he just left (and didn't come back) I would let him go.


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## JBun (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm not sure if they will have to pay anything, but the cat was on your property, and you have to keep your rabbits safe.


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## Thumperina (Jan 25, 2013)

Yes, but I still feel bad about taking such a sweetheart to such a nasty place.
I am thinking to call them tomorrow to see if the cat has been picked up. Do you know how long they keep pets that were found? I heard, 3 days only? then it goes to adoption? 
If nobody claimed the cat, I could try to go from house to house asking if their cat is missing (as a lot of people who let cats out would think that cat is just doing its own business and would come back when needed). But then owners would know if was me. I do worry a little about possible revenge. It doesn't take long to add poison to my grass or anything else. Who knows how angry people could be.


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## Thumperina (Jan 26, 2013)

I checked with the shelter - the owner picked up the cat. Feeling better now!


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## ZoeStevens (May 22, 2013)

Thumperina said:


> I checked with the shelter - the owner picked up the cat. Feeling better now!



A little late to the game. I am not sure if they pay. Some places charge people, but I don't think our local humane society does. Frankly I think it might make them think twice about letting their cat out next time. Even if they don't have to pay, just the trouble of going to pick up the cat or whatever. Also, if the cat has a city collar, you can call bylaw and tell them a cat was on your lawn terrorizing your pets. They can track the owner based on the collar and will contact them to get their cat back.

But uh, you know this is your new reality now, right? You might want to straight up buy a humane trap of your own (they are only $80 or so) because living in the burbs with interesting animals in your yard, you will have no shortage of cats coming to hang out (ferals, strays, outdoor pets etc). Most are of no threat to your rabbits though.


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## Thumperina (Jun 3, 2013)

I didn't see this last post. 
We didn't have any cats for a really long time (a few months). But a few days ago I spotted a cat hanging out nearby. This cat comes close but doesn't seem to be persistent on trying to get in (just hanging out watching). I asked my husband watch this cat, while I went to the street where the known cat lives to see if he sits by his house so I would knew the new cat is actually new but not the same one. 
Holly cow, when I got there, I saw 2 identical black cats + a grey cat outside the front door + another cat looking out through the glass door. So the one by my house was actually a different, brand new for us cat. I thought it would be probably easy to put some cat food inside my pet taxi, and when he comes to eat, to close the door (this is how I trapped the only cat that I ever caught). 
But I feel really bad about taking him to Humane society. When we had couple of small loose runaway dogs here, and it was Memorial day weekend so the vet from the collar didn't respond, I asked my neighbors if taking dogs to humane society was a bad idea. They all looked at me like I was crazy and said Yes, it's the very last thing they would do. Owners somehow discovered the dogs that my neighbors kept in their garage to keep them out of trouble. 
Anyway... Lots of wild rabbits out here. Same rabbits come to graze every day and they don't seem to be bothered by cats. And yes, my rabbits are pretty big to get hurt by cats, but I of course keeping an eye on what going on. 
Cats are free roam in my city (no collars required) so I was told nothing can prohibit them from trespassing. But you are right, the only (friendly) cat who I took to Humane society has never showed up again. 
I rather worry about dogs. Yesterday I walked friend's dog as they are out of town. Right after, I came home and washed my hands but didn;t change my clothes (the dog was jumping on me pretty hard). I tried to feed raisins to my rabbits. Never they refused a raisin before. But yesterday, two came to me, smelled my palm but immediately ran away. Two others couldn't resist and ate raisins despite of the smell (I am guessing the smell was the problem for first two rabbits?)


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## Azerane (Jun 3, 2013)

If you would like to keep other cats away and perhaps dogs too, there are sprays that you can buy and if you spray around the perimeter of your fence, it will keep them away. The spray that I use mentions nothing about rabbits, but I'm not sure if they would be uncomfortable with the smell or not. However, we used to have a cat from across the road that three times a week would poop in the tub right next to our front door and not even bury it! I used the spray once on that tub and he hasn't done it again since (2-3 months ago). So that's another option for deterring cats and dogs. You can usually find it with the insecticides and things at a hardware store.


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## Thumperina (Jun 4, 2013)

Azerane, thank you! I also have gotten an advice to get lion's poop in the zoo and spread it around the perimeter haven't checked how well this works yet, but I think my rabbits would freak out, too. I don't want to affect squirrels or wild rabbits who come to graze outside my rabbits' area (it is their natural habitat and I don't want to take it away from them). 
My personal opinion is that best thing would be motion-detection sprinkler system but I don't know how to implement this (I mean, its' possible cost turns me down).


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## Nancy McClelland (Jun 4, 2013)

When we had chickens and lived in the country, I used the "fortress approach". I used regular wire on the inside and put up another barrier of much heavier wire the width of a 2x4 outside of that, and doubled up on the doors too. That way if anything wanted in, they had to get thru two barriers, not just one. It's the "you shall not pass approach", but we never lost anyone.


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## Rescuemom (Jun 7, 2013)

You can get chicken wire and secure it to the top of your current fencing to create an 'angle' of about 40 degrees, and this will discourage any cats from jumping or climbing either of your fences.

An idea can be seen here: https://medium.com/look-what-i-made/5ab2e6b93f85

Cats don't like to jump or climb fences that are angled too much over.

I imagine feeding them will NOT deter them from your rabbits however, as they DO NOT just hunt for prey food alone, but also for sport/fun. Trapping and taking to the local Humane Society, or adding angles to your own fence top, or even creating a secure hutch for your rabbits will be more effective. Usually the hassle of fines/picking up their lost cat will teach an owner to be more responsible for their cats next time. Also, the ONLY time I'd be concerned about taking an animal to the Humane Society is a) if it's an actual stray and not owned(because then I'd rather find a rescue or a home on my own) and b) if it's a high kill shelter(euthanize after so many days of not being adopted).


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