# 1st cut tim hay vs. 2nd cut tim hay



## RexyRex (Jul 30, 2008)

Ok, after the 3rd Kaytee bag o' hay that I've bought and could barely use because so much was brown I've decided to order online, either Kleenmamas, Oxbow or American Pet Diner. I'm stumped as to which type of hay I should get and also how much :huh

1st cut tim hay is very course and has lots of fiber, I get it. It also says that it's very good for rabbits, so I was thinking that I should order that one....but....

2nd cut tim hay is greener and softer and seems like rabbits like the flavor more, but is there enough fiber in it for them?

I'm so confused, should I get the 1st cut, 2nd cut, both and mix them? What do you guys use? Also, how much hay should you order at one time? I have 3 buns, 2 are about 4.5-5lbs and 1 is about 6lbs. I don't want to over order and have hay go bad, wait, does hay _go bad?_


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## slavetoabunny (Jul 30, 2008)

I tried the 1st cut hay once thinking the higher fiber would be good for the bunnies, but they would hardly even touch it. They much prefer the 2nd cut hay.


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## BlueGiants (Jul 30, 2008)

_*wait, does hay go bad?
*_

As long as you keep it dry and clean, the hay doesn't really go "bad". I try to use it within 3 months... but it can be stored for a lot longer if it's kept dry. 

The worse thing that could happen is the hay gets damp or wet and goes moldy... never ever feed them hay that has an off, damp or mustysmell or if you see dark spots on the hay or any mold growing...


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## ra7751 (Jul 30, 2008)

Hi Rexy,

You should offer a buffet of different types of hay...including some alfalfa too. Different types of grass hay such as timothy, oat, orchard grass, brome, etc. and each different cut has a different texture. Not only is the high fiber required for a healthy gut...but hay is the primary method of wearing down the teeth. It's not how hard something is but how chewy it is. And different textures of hay require different chewing mechanics and will help keep those teeth in check. And by offering a buffet of different types of hay, it will keep them busy and encourage a more natural type foraging behavior. And it's a lot of fun watching them go after one particular strand of hay.

I have some comments and alternatives to the brands you mentioned.

Kleenmama-Excellent quality. Our buns love it. Downside is shipping time and costs since it comes from the left coast. But it is worth it and they have fantastic customer service.

Oxbow-Over rated.

American Pet Diner-High quality but over priced.

Since you are in NC....I have two excellent supplieers of hay on the east coast. Sweet Meadow Farms out of Mass. offers several different type of hay. It's a favorite with our buns. www.sweetmeadowfarm.com Another excellent hay is grown and baled in the mountains of Virginia. I have been to the farm and it is a beautiful place. They offer several types of hay including a premium type mini-bale of timothy or alfalfa. It might be perfect for your situation. It's amazing how much hay they pack into that little bag. It's Pine Hill Farms and is marketed as Bunny Bale www.bunnybale.com . Both Sweet Meadow and Bunny Bale offer excellent quality of hay and a bonus of quicker shipping time and lower shipping costs.

And don't forget local farmers. The NC Ag Dept has a hay exchange on their site and we pick up great hay locally at a fraction of the cost. And if there is an equine community in your area....any hay safe for a horse is safe for a rabbit.

Randy


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## Haley (Jul 30, 2008)

IMO the later the cutting, the better. My bunnies love second and third cut timothy hay.

I wasnt too happy with the Oxbow hay Ive gotten compared to the others. American Pet Diner is the best and Kleenmama is very similar to that. I go with Kleenmama since they are the cheapest for me (shipping for the others is more for some reason) and Im always happy with the hay. 

I think right nowall Kleenmama has is Bluegrass hay, which my bunnies love. They should be gettingtheir timothy hay cutand baled soon. I love to mix the two hays together, the bunnies go nuts for it.


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## RexyRex (Jul 30, 2008)

Thanks for the info everyone, I'll order the 2nd cut instead. I'm glad I asked, I was leaning toward the 1st cut!

Randy-Thank you for the links. I've checked them out and I think I'll go with Sweet Meadows so I can order a mix of hays. I'm in Charlotte so there are lots of local hay options in my area that I would LOVE to take advantage of, I just don't know where I could store 50lbs ofhay. Couldyou store it in a garbage can with the lid off? I think I could find room in my garage for that. Especially when they are selling 50lb bales of hay for $6.25.


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## dootsmom (Jul 30, 2008)

I bag my bales with Construction Strength (the big, heavy, black ones) bags.
The bales fit nicely into them. I only use one bag, per bale, and leave the top open so it can "breathe". Then, I stack them. The hay I am using now was bought last September and is still green!!


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## superchar42 (Jul 30, 2008)

I kept the bale I bought in my trunk, and put chunks of the bale (as needed) into one of those big storage bins. I did see a hay bale sized storage bin once at Target though, so that might be an option, too.


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## JimD (Aug 12, 2008)

*ra7751 wrote: *


> Another excellent hay is grown and baled in the mountains of Virginia. I have been to the farm and it is a beautiful place. They offer several types of hay including a premium type mini-bale of timothy or alfalfa. It might be perfect for your situation. It's amazing how much hay they pack into that little bag. It's Pine Hill Farms and is marketed as Bunny Bale http://www.bunnybale.com . Both Sweet Meadow and Bunny Bale offer excellent quality of hay and a bonus of quicker shipping time and lower shipping costs.
> 
> Randy



Well, Kaytee is up to $18.99 for a 6 lb bag that's half brown crud.
I won't take the chance on Oxbow for the same reason.

So, I decided to order a 50# bale from Bunny Bale.
It's $20 cheaper than ordering Oxbow.
I ordered it last night around 10pm. This morning there was an email waiting for me that said it had already been shipped and should be here tomorrow.


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## slavetoabunny (Aug 12, 2008)

Let us know how the bunny bale is. I just got 25 lbs. from APD and, for the first time in 4 years, have been disappointed. There is way too much inedible hay in there. I just got in 45 lbs. of Kleenmama's bluegrass and it is beautiful. They should be restocked on 2nd cut timothy soon, if they aren't already.


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## Jenk (Aug 13, 2008)

*JimD wrote: *


> *ra7751 wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Both Sweet Meadow and Bunny Bale offer excellent quality of hay and a bonus of quicker shipping time and lower shipping costs.
> ...


Ijust want to share my hay experiences here, since we're on the topic....

Kaytee: The quality was decent. But I found two smooshed grasshoppers between two different bags and have been leery of it ever since.  Actually, it's just too expensive and can only be found in small bags (by me, anyway).

Nature's Promise: It's quality was pretty good, but it, too,is overpriced (just a tad less than Oxbow).

Oxbow: It's the easiest brand for me to find, but it's quality fluctuates wildly. I've been lucky that the last five (or so) orders have of good quality. The price, though, is _insane_. (I just paid $70 for a 50-lb. bale,which contains a lot of broken/powdered hay. For that reason alone, the price should be _drastically_ reduced.) Still, the overall quality (color, smell) is very good (this time).

Kleenmama's: I've tried it once andwas impressed with the quality/smell of it. My hubby, however, disliked the large amount of weeds in it, which some time to remove before each feeding. And my one bun barely touched it, so it's hard to justify buying it for one of our two bunners.

Bunny Bale: I currently have the free sample size of it. The color is much lighter than that of my current Oxbow bale; I have it in my mind that the lighter the color, the less nutritious the hay. (I'm guessing that I could be dead wrong about that.) But my girls have eaten the bits of it that I've slipped in with their Oxbow hay.

Jenk


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## Leaf (Aug 13, 2008)

I buy from frmrdave on eBay. This time he didn't have 2nd cut (37#) Timothy so I ordered 1st cut int hat size. I actually bought two boxes in anticipation of some fosters from the Rescue Me section.

I like how his is cut and packaged.



I order occasionally from binkybunny. I like the variety they offer. Honestly - I dont like the cut of the mini bales though. Price seems ok - I just wish I had enough extra $$ at times to make a huge order - just once. I'd love to have the small bales available and on hand. On many occasions they would have been useful!


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## Jenk (Aug 13, 2008)

*Leaf wrote: *


> I buy from frmrdave on eBay. This time he didn't have 2nd cut (37#) Timothy so I ordered 1st cut int hat size. I actually bought two boxes in anticipation of some fosters from the Rescue Me section.
> 
> I like how his is cut and packaged.


How is Farmer Dave's hay cut/packaged? Just curious. 

Jenk


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## JimD (Aug 13, 2008)

*Jenk wrote: *


> Kaytee: The quality was decent. *But I found two smooshed grasshoppers between two different bags and have been leery of it ever since.*  Actually, it's just too expensive and can only be found in small bags (by me, anyway).


That'a too weird!!! I found a smashed grasshopper in my last bag of Kaytee, too!!


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## missyscove (Aug 13, 2008)

I've found grasshoppers too. I just take them as a good sign that there aren't any pesticides on the hay that could harm the buns. The buns usually ignore them, to my knowledge, but if they decided to eat them, I don't really see any harm in it.

We've been getting hay from our feed store. Their bales are about $20, but they'll pull off a few flakes to fill up a garbage bag for us for $5. If you're worried about storage, maybe ask your local farmers if you can do something like that. Or if you know someone with horses that might be willing to share a bale with you, or other bunny lovers in the area.


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## JimD (Aug 13, 2008)

*missyscove wrote: *


> I've found grasshoppers too. I just take them as a good sign that there aren't any pesticides on the hay that could harm the buns. The buns usually ignore them, to my knowledge, but if they decided to eat them, I don't really see any harm in it.


There are actually some species of grasshoppers/locusts that are considered kosher.


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## Jenk (Aug 13, 2008)

*JimD wrote: *


> *Jenk wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Kaytee: The quality was decent. *But I found two smooshed grasshoppers between two different bags and have been leery of it ever since.*  Actually, it's just too expensive and can only be found in small bags (by me, anyway).
> ...


I found two 'hoppers in my one box of Kleenmama's;so I can't single out Kaytee. 

The first time I found one (inKaytee)is funny to me now. I couldn't figure out why the hay I'd grabbed felt heavy; then I kept staring at it to try to figure out what was sticking to the tip of it. I had to stare a bit, too, because the thing didn't exactly resemble a 'hopper to a T (and I wasn't expecting to see one, so I didn't identify it immediately). Now I can spot 'em easily.


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## JimD (Aug 18, 2008)

*JimD wrote: *


> I ordered it last night (8/11)around 10pm. This morning there was an email waiting for me that said it had already been shipped and should be here tomorrow.



My mistake.
It wasn't shipped when I thought.
Evidently they first send the billing/shipping info to UPS, and UPS makes up the manifests for them.

So it takes about 7 days total to get to me from the day I order. Still not too bad.

I should be getting my bunny bale today! :biggrin2:


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## JimD (Aug 18, 2008)

I got my bunny bale!!

It's the same size box as Oxbow, but there's no plastic liner as with Oxbow.
I'll take a pic so y'all can get an idea of how big the 50# box is.


Jenk* wrote: 
*


> Bunny Bale: I currently have the free sample size of it. The color is much lighter than that of my current Oxbow bale; I have it in my mind that the lighter the color, the less nutritious the hay. (I'm guessing that I could be dead wrong about that.) But my girls have eaten the bits of it that I've slipped in with their Oxbow hay.
> 
> Jenk





The quality is good,
Smells fresh and well dried.
Light golden to light green in color.
Lots of stems and seed heads.
Strands are loooong...some are almost 2 feet long.

Not too much leafy stuff, though.

They really didn't say what cut I would be getting.

I think I was expecting a liitle more green/sweet/leafy stuff..... 
But it's more important to be concerned about what's best for the buns, not necessarily what I might prefer.
It's the fiber (and silicate) that's most important factor in timothy hay.
There's not really a whole lot of nutritional value in timothy hay.....but we're also looking for what they (the buns) find most palatable.

I gave all of the buns a small handful.
At first they weren't too sure. but they were all munching on it last I checked.

I plan on supplementing it with with some orchard and bermuda grasses.


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