# Rabbit has problem walking? (RESOLVED)



## Mochi (Feb 1, 2010)

Yesterday my family bought an adorable 8 week old Netherlands dwarf rabbit who we've called Mochi. (She's positively tiny; you can hold her in cupped hands!)

But I've noticed she seems to have a bit of a problem walking on our floorboards. She doesn't really walk or hop on them, she actually appears to slide a bit with her legs spread out. When we put her on the rug to run around, she sort of drags her back legs - she'll stretch out to full body length and then pull her legs close to her body again. She kinda walks on tip-toes. She _can_ still walk and run and everything (she acutally runs better than she walks), I'm just a bit worried.

Should I be worried or does this problem go away once her feet are big enough? 

Thank you for your time.


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## PepnFluff (Feb 1, 2010)

When I had baby buns they seemed to walk that way until they got the gist of hopping but that was when they were very wee like a few weeks old? Someone else will hopefully know more


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## Pipp (Feb 1, 2010)

That could be a problem, although it is probably normal. Is it possible she's younger than they said? 

Do you know the breeder or how she was housed before you got her? 

Give her another day or two to get used to her surroundings. 


sas :bunnydance:


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## NorthernAutumn (Feb 1, 2010)

Baby buns often don't do well on slippery floorboards. Rabbit bones in the first few weeks of life tend to be very soft, and are vulnerable to a slippery housing surface; there is potential for splay leg. Also don't want to strain muscles through slipping 

I would keep the baby on the carpet as much as possible, until her legs strengthen a bit more. One of my adult males still refuses to set a paw on any uncarpeted floor if he can help it.

But, as Pipp said, there may be another factor in play. Keep an eye on it for sure!


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## elrohwen (Feb 1, 2010)

My adult rabbit has a lot of trouble with hardwood floors. He has been using the floors for a year, but he'll still often act like he just can't keep his feet from sliding. I think it comes more from his fear and anxiety of the floors than anything else. He can hop across them, he just gets nervous and uncomfortable.

She may grow out of it, or she may remain very cautious of the floors. Bunnies don't have pads on the bottom of their feet like dogs, just fur, so it's natural that they slip a bit.

Try putting her on carpet and see how she does. If she has motor problems, they will show up on carpet. If it's only the hardwood she has problems with, I think that's perfectly normal.


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## Mochi (Feb 1, 2010)

The breeder said she was eight weeks, but she was the smallest of the group of rabbits they had for sale. Even the other eight week rabbit was a bit bigger than her, so she could be younger.

We put her on carpet and she appears to be dragging her legs around on carpet too. Also we put her on the floorboards and even a glass coffee table the day before, and she was hopping and walking around no problem. I'm afraid she might have hurt herself somehow.

We're taking her to a vet today. It could be nothing but I don't want to take any chances.


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## bunnylove817 (Feb 1, 2010)

let us know how it goes! And I'd love to see a photo, Baby nethies are adorable!


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## asianangel (Feb 1, 2010)

Hey everyone, I'm Mochi's(username, not the bunny LOL) older sis...and Mochi doesn't look good right now...she is dragging her legs more than before and relying heavily on front paws. I'm really scared...her vet appointment with the RSPCA is in about 7 hours (couldn't get an earlier one). Please pray that she'll be ok...I'm so worried...


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## Pipp (Feb 1, 2010)

I'd keep her immobilized in a carrier until you get to the Vet. 

Hopefully its something that can be corrected with rest. Sometime anti-inflammatories will help, some may try steroids. 

Its good she's getting to the vet. If it was an injury, its important to have it treated quickly. 



sas ray:


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## NorthernAutumn (Feb 1, 2010)

:hug:
Noserubs to Mochi...ray:


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## asianangel (Feb 1, 2010)

Hey everyone! I am able to push the appointment earlier so I'll be there in half an hour!!! Work cancelled on me so I guess that is a blessing in disguise...I really do need money but I have enough to shell out a lot for Mochi...I hope it's something fixable! Will update when I get back...the vet said she needs to see her immediately...that doesn't sound good


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## NorthernAutumn (Feb 1, 2010)

You are one fabulous sister :hug:


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## asianangel (Feb 1, 2010)

Aww thanks NorthernAutumn. The bunny is at the vet's now...she said it's to do with her back...and they don't know if its only bruised or a slipped disk or broken...she has lost some feeling in her legs but not all..they're going to take X-rays to confirm...God I pray everything will be ok ...I'm doing everything I can.


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## NorthernAutumn (Feb 1, 2010)

Let us know when you get a diagnosis, and I'll take a look for some resources to help you guys out with the care aspect.
I am going to move this to the Infirmary, OK?


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## NorthernAutumn (Feb 1, 2010)

Moved.


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## Pipp (Feb 1, 2010)

This wasn't in the Infirmary? :shock:

It sounds like your Vets knows what they're doing. Bunnies can often come back from these injuries when they're treated quickly. 

I assume her youth and partial feeling is in her favor. 

The x-rays will tell them exactly what they're dealing with. 

Good job re: getting her in there so quickly. 


sas ray:


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## NorthernAutumn (Feb 1, 2010)

^^^ Sorry SAS, I left it on the main board for awhile, as these folks are new...didn't want them to think we deleted it


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## tonyshuman (Feb 1, 2010)

Prayers sent your way~~


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## jamesedwardwaller (Feb 1, 2010)

*asianangel wrote: *


> Aww thanks NorthernAutumn. The bunny is at the vet's now...she said it's to do with her back...and they don't know if its only bruised or a slipped disk or broken...she has lost some feeling in her legs but not all..they're going to take X-rays to confirm...God I pray everything will be ok ...I'm doing everything I can.


i fear,,weaned too early,,and neurological problems--could be genetics,,or suffered a fall../.radiographs will shed light on the problem,,whether it is fixable or not,..hoping for best...sincerely james waller:wave::rose:


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## asianangel (Feb 2, 2010)

UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! Got a call back from the vet doctor and she said there is no broken bone or slipped disk...might just be some bruising but the x-rays look good...*phew*...I'm glad I spent the $100...its worth it for a peace of mind. She said I should go pick Mochi up in 2 hours and she will explain in detail...right now they put her on some inflammatory drugs...

I'm still praying that she will make a full recovery...thanks for all the support guys =) This forum is great.

Is there a chance of a full recovery? Does anyone have any experience with this?


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## NorthernAutumn (Feb 2, 2010)

Just bruising? Absolutely nothing else?

If you can ask her to make a digital copy of the x-rays (burn to CD), that would be really great for your future reference.

Looking forward to the vet report  I wonder what she thinks the cause is?

If you don't mind me asking, who is the vet and practice location? I'm wondering if someone else here has worked with them....

So far, good news though :hug:


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## asianangel (Feb 2, 2010)

I'm not sure yet...she was really busy so I couldn't get a word in over the phone...when I go there I'll get the full details...I'm hoping it's fixable...but she says it will take about 4 weeks to see any recovery..

Oh the vet I went to is the RSPCA in Sydney (Australia)...I'm lucky because I only live like a few minutes away. Still praying...Mochi is making me so worried


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## Pipp (Feb 2, 2010)

I thought that might be it considering it was a slower progression and she still had motion. 

The big thing was getting her in and getting the swelling down. She should be fine. 

It has happened on the board before, and to me, although not quite as serious. Pipp slipped off my chair, which wasn't much of a drop, she always jumps it on her own, but this time she landed funny and couldn't hop. :shock:

Very scary! But a couple days rest and anti-inflammatories did the trick. 

It could have been just an odd twist. You really have to be careful how you hold them. One hand on the butt with the other on their chests pulled tight against your body will help keep them secure and stable. (They feel more secure that way, too, and will be happier about being picked up). 

Hope she hops out of it soon will no lasting effects! 


sas :bunnydance:


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## NorthernAutumn (Feb 2, 2010)

Might want to bring a pad of paper and a pen when you go. Whenever I'm at the vets, I'm usually so worried and stressed out about the treatment that I wind up not remembering half of it by the time I get home ... I never remember paper either 


That's great that they are so close to you!

4 weeks to recover is a pretty positive outlook :hug: :bunnydance:


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## asianangel (Feb 2, 2010)

Hi pip! That's what happened. Exactly..I was holding her on the couch and she scrambled away and slipped off the leather couch...landed on her back on the timber floor...*sigh*..

Thanks for the advice on how to hold her =) But she is the size of a rat now so she's pretty small. Its pretty easy to scoop her up gently.

NorthernAutumn, thanks for the advice =) Nice to see ppl on the internet who genuinely care about animals!!

Gotta get going in a few minutes...hoping for the best.


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## jamesedwardwaller (Feb 2, 2010)

*asianangel wrote: *


> I'm not sure yet...she was really busy so I couldn't get a word in over the phone...when I go there I'll get the full details...I'm hoping it's fixable...but she says it will take about 4 weeks to see any recovery..
> 
> Oh the vet I went to is the RSPCA in Sydney (Australia)...I'm lucky because I only live like a few minutes away. Still praying...Mochi is making me so worried


excellent news...now if the adrenaline will equalize soon,,please take note of all info the dvm has about your baby,,and ask questions,medication,,dosages,etc..ie.myxi??..i love it when a plan comes together..sincerely james waller:wave:ink iris::bunnydance:


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## Pipp (Feb 2, 2010)

asianangel wrote:


> Thanks for the advice on how to hold her =) But she is the size of a rat now so she's pretty small. Its pretty easy to scoop her up gently.



Easy to scoop them up, but this may be a way of keeping them from even slightly twisting in the process and even more necessary with her injury and four-week recovery time. Although I'd check with the vet, I'm sure they'll have specific holding instructions -- or 'not holding' instructions.

Four weeks sounds serious, but if its not life-threatening, all is good.  

(And James, unfortunately the Myxi vaccine isn't available in Australia).



sas :bunnydance:


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## asianangel (Feb 2, 2010)

Ok I'm back from the vet...she told me its a bad bruise and she is giving it 1 week to recover...if she gets worse and not better they're going to euthanize her  I saw the x-rays and they look good...nothing broken...she is going to be on some anti inflammatory drugs for a week (vet showed me how to feed her the drugs) and we'll see what happens...

*sigh*...very uncertain...I guess I've done everything I can as an owner...


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## Mochi (Feb 2, 2010)

Hello again. I'm glad my sister's been keeping you updated while I was at school. I'm just hoping she gets better. Thank you for all your help and for being so nice to us *bows*


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## Pipp (Feb 2, 2010)

No disrespect, but I don't think euthanization is the vet's call. That's up to the bunny's guardians. As long as she's not in unmanageable pain, she can survive with paralysis. 

Many other cases, but check out Cheryl's Jack, also in Australia: 

Update on Jack


sas :clover:


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## NorthernAutumn (Feb 2, 2010)

Honestly, I'm not sure about your one-week timeline... that sounds awfully short, if there is nothing broken. Does the vet think that there is internal injury? 

It sounds like your vet is following this protocol: http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/171338.htm
As you can see, if she is more mobile, and not incontinent in the next week and a bit, the prognosis is better.

If you see poops in the next few days, things are looking up 

I agree with Pipp; paralysis is not a death sentence. Euthanization is always up to the owner.

The 3 A's can help you determine whether or not to euthanize in the coming weeks: *

A*lert - is the rabbit alert and aware of their surroundings and paying attention to what is going on around them

*A*ffection - is the rabbit affectionate with either another rabbit or their caregiver. They may not be giving affection but are they happy when receiving affection.

*A*ppetite - Do they still eat well? Do they enjoy eating?


What pain meds were you given for her? If you hear her grinding her teeth, that would be identifying pain (just in case you haven't heard it before). 

ray::hug:


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## asianangel (Feb 2, 2010)

She said if it's not getting better in a week...it most likely won't get better. She prescribed a NSAID, Metacam, (at a low dosage since there is no anti inflammatory for rabbits they are using one for cats). She has spoken to a rabbit specialist and that's what he recommended to her.

Mochi hasn't grinded her teeth...she looks well...except her hind legs are so pathetic right now :tears2:


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## Mochi (Feb 2, 2010)

That thread on Jack is such a tear jerker *sniff* I'm just a little scared that Mochi won't get better and she might have to get put down. I'm kinda dreading next week. We'll try to keep you updated.

Also, probably bad timing, but I believe someone asked for pictures.










I look at her now and see how useless her back legs are and my heart breaks that bit more...


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## Pipp (Feb 2, 2010)

Does she have bladder and bowel control? 

Here's some info Autumn so kindly dug up. (These are just excerpts). 

*Merck's Vet Manual: 
*
... Initial signs of paralysis may resolve within 3-5 days as swelling around the cord diminishes. Supportive therapy includes anti-inflammatory glucocorticoids (eg, dexamethasone) to reduce damage from swelling. Paralysis after 1-2 wk or incontinence indicates a grave prognosis and warrants euthanasia.
 
*And Veterinary Partner... *

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=490

*Cause:*  Damage to a rabbit's back by any kind of trauma can lead to partial or complete paralysis of the hind limbs. 
*
Diagnosis: * The damaged vertebrae can usually be seen on a x-ray. Occasionally the vertebrae will "snap" out of place during the injury, cause damage to the spinal cord and then go back into place by the time the x-ray is taken. These cases can be difficult to diagnose unless high detail x-ray film is used or a myelogram is performed.
 *
Treatment -* If the spinal cord is completely severed or seriously bruised, there is no treatment that will return normal neurological function. Euthanasia should be considered for these patients because their quality of life will be very poor. Cases that have only mild to moderate damage to the spinal cord or that still have sensations in the toes and maintain bladder or bowel control have a chance of healing. These rabbits should confined to a cage for a period of 6 to 8 weeks to facilitate healing of the fractured bones. Corticosteroids may be used for the first few days after the injury. Many of these rabbits will regain at least partial if not total neurological function and live a fairly normal life.

Copyright 2001 - 2010 by Susan Brown, DVM
 

sas


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## asianangel (Feb 2, 2010)

What do you mean by bladder and bowel control? That confuses me because she still poos and wees...but she won't get up and move to another area to do it if u know what I mean....sorry could u elaborate please? Thanks for the information.


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## Pipp (Feb 2, 2010)

You may not be able to tell right away, but if she seems to be able to hold her urine to pee all at one once, that is better than just having her dribbling all the time. 

A big factor with rabbits is ailments like urine scald (and bladder infections) which are a byproduct of the paralysis.

If she is paralyzed -- and that's a big if right now -- a lot will depend on how much you can and are willing to do to keep her comfortable. If you want to bath her several times a day, apply medications, etc, you might be able to fight it (like Cheryl), but its a hard job and requires tremendous time commitments and dedication. 

I think she's going to bounce back myself, crossing my fingers and toes. Just give the anti-inflammatories a chance to work. (Did they give her steroids? They don't always, some think they're not worth the elevated risk of infection. I think). 


sas ray:


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## asianangel (Feb 2, 2010)

OK I went to check on her and she just did a wee...no dribbling...she just did a big wee (like a strong squirt). Is this a good sign? Oh God oh God oh God..please let her be ok :cry2 And no, she was only given the anti-inflammatory.


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## Pipp (Feb 2, 2010)

Yay!! That really does sound promising!

And she was moving around after the injury, I think the damage is minimal. She's had some swelling, which is why she got worse, and once the swelling goes down, she'll be fine. 

I think this thread should stay focused on what to do re: her recovery and not bother addressing paralysed bunny issues. We can readdress that in a week if need be, but I really don't think we'll have to. 

For now, she just has to stay quiet. 

How's her appetite? 


sas :goodluck


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## asianangel (Feb 2, 2010)

She's eating a lot...and pooing a lot..she looks good...clear eyes..alert..good appetite...my heart just breaks when looking at her legs though. You guys give me hope =)


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## NorthernAutumn (Feb 2, 2010)

It's sounding really good at this point. Poop and pee are the vital indicators for recovery, and she's alert with good appetite 
As long as the anti-inflammatory is working to diminish pain and swelling, she will improve 
(By the way, she is one ADORABLE little girl!)

I'll be thinkin of you guys:hug:


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## asianangel (Feb 2, 2010)

Guys guys...she seems to have something else wrong with her :tears2: I was feeling around her back scratching around her neck and what I thought was her bone...was actually some sort of hard lump near her right shoulder...now she doesn't seem to be able to feel it...any idea on what it might be? It's morning now...and she's still in the same condition as yesterday...still alert and eating but hasn't used her legs. (Day 1)


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## NorthernAutumn (Feb 2, 2010)

Photos, please?
I am wondering if she is simply terribly swollen.
Is her neck in proper position?

How is the poo and pee? Glad to hear she is still eating.. that's very good. How's the water intake today?


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## asianangel (Feb 2, 2010)

Nono its some sort of lump...I'll try take a picture now...it was there a few days before...I thought it was just her bone but now I see it isn't...and I think it has increased in size. I'm gonna ring up the vet today (in 2.5 hours when they're open)...but i don't know if I can go in today unless she pushes me in front of the queue cuz I have to work in the afternoon


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## tonyshuman (Feb 2, 2010)

She is incredibly adorable.

Metacam is used pretty extensively in rabbits. It's the only veterinary anti-inflammatory. I would not worry about not getting steroids for her--their use is controversial in rabbits. Metacam is probably the best course of action.

I cannot tell from your description if she has bowel/urinary control, since babies frequently pee wherever they feel like it as well.

I don't know what the shoulder/neck thing you're talking about it, but it worries me. If it is along the spine, it could be a problem with the meninges (the lining of the brain and spinal cord). Swelling in the spinal cord due to inflammation and injury could progress to swelling in the brain and that would be terrible. However, usually if the meninges are swollen, the neck hurts a lot. For instance, people with swollen meninges cannot touch their chin to their chest without terrible pain. If you think this swelling is along her spine, that might be a condition in which a steroid would be helpful, I'd get her to the vet ASAP. Steroids are drugs that end in -one or -oid, usually, like dexamethasone.


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## asianangel (Feb 2, 2010)

It's not along the spine. Please don't make assumptions. It's near the 'shoulder'..I'll try and upload pics but the pics aren't very good...can't believe I paid so much for a CRAP camera but anyway..*sigh*

How do you put an image onto here?


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## NorthernAutumn (Feb 2, 2010)

Here is a visual guide to posting photos: http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=36422&forum_id=66

I don't think she was trying to offend you, my friend :hug:
.. just offering a possible treatment for the situation (if Mochi has somehow wrenched her neck, resulting in the lump you feel).

Hopefully, the lump will be clear from the photo 

How is Mochi doing? Still got the As going on?


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## asianangel (Feb 2, 2010)

Ugh!!! Now the battery in my camera died and it won't upload to the computer!! No matter...I'm going to the vet's again in half an hour...unfortunately the vet who looked at her yesterday won't be there so I'll get a different one. *sigh*...this is costing me a lot of time, effort, pain and money. I just wonder if it'll be for nothing except for peace of mind that I did everything I could.


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## Pipp (Feb 2, 2010)

I hope she's staying in a carrier. The most important thing is rest. 

Let us know how she is!


sas :clover:


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## asianangel (Feb 2, 2010)

Ok I'm back from the vets now...I don't know the standard procedure of removing an abscess but the Dr (who's just a veterinarian whereas I had a veterinary surgeon yesterday) was very young and she used her fingers to try and squeeze out the puss...she then said we must flush it 3 times a day with water (she showed me how to do this and it seems like she's just flushing the pus into the rabbit's body)...I dunno it was a cause of alarm for me...then she proceeded to give Mochi an antibiotic injection and gave me an oral antibiotic for her to take. I dunno but is this how it's done?? She didn't use an antiseptic to flush it out or anything!!!! What the?!?!


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## tonyshuman (Feb 2, 2010)

Well, it's one way of doing it, just an old-fashioned way. The water should get the pus out of the wound, not farther into it, that worries me. The antibiotic injection sounds good.

We'd prefer that the vet not try to open the abscess--usually doesn't help a lot and it can re-form. The best way to treat abscesses in rabbits appears to be injectible penicillin G.

Here's a link to a study on that: http://bellsouthpwp.net/m/o/morfz/pdf/bicillin.pdf


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## asianangel (Feb 2, 2010)

She says to keep the abscess open and not let it heal over until all the pus is flushed out...well all I could do was just watch her...she's the doctor and I'm not. She gave Mochi a Baytril Oral Solution and Baytril 5%/Enrotril Injection. *sigh* and Mochi is always leaning over on one side...makes me worried about that foot on that side...how it's probably less healthy than the one she's not leaning on...I just gave her today's anti-inflammatory...*sigh* she's such a good girl...she's so brave through everything...it breaks me heart to see her in such a mess :cry2


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## jamesedwardwaller (Feb 2, 2010)

*Pipp wrote: *


> No disrespect, but I don't think euthanization is the vet's call. That's up to the bunny's guardians. As long as she's not in unmanageable pain, she can survive with paralysis.
> 
> Many other cases, but check out Cheryl's Jack, also in Australia:
> 
> ...


amen--just as you state pipp,,i would not have my cottontail--if i had ears.....rrr,,in leu of surgery- it was said pts..whew/what,,-my head spun around a few times on that one.//.--living a healthy happy life--.sincerely james-waller:wave::bunnydance::inlove:ink iris:


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## jamesedwardwaller (Feb 2, 2010)

*asianangel wrote: *


> Ok I'm back from the vets now...I don't know the standard procedure of removing an abscess but the Dr (who's just a veterinarian whereas I had a veterinary surgeon yesterday) was very young and she used her fingers to try and squeeze out the puss...she then said we must flush it 3 times a day with water (she showed me how to do this and it seems like she's just flushing the pus into the rabbit's body)...I dunno it was a cause of alarm for me...then she proceeded to give Mochi an antibiotic injection and gave me an oral antibiotic for her to take. I dunno but is this how it's done?? She didn't use an antiseptic to flush it out or anything!!!! What the?!?!


this is one for randy/ra7751....abscess/oh,oh..where is this abscess.??they-must -do a biopsy.??.these are generally removed like a cancer,,though there are some that can be treated with proper antibiotics,,penicillin g.?.unless the bacteria is resistant to this med,,we are talking injections and oral,,it is extremely important to know what bacteria is being fought,,i do not have much faith in baytril-alone,- helping,,need local injections/radiographs of the area,,-sincerely james waller:wave::rose:


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## NorthernAutumn (Feb 2, 2010)

Oh man... :hug:

So, the lump in the shoulder has been determined to be an abscess, eh?

If you are not confident in this new, young vet (and it doesn't sound like you are), that is OK. Doesn't sound like she is using current methodology, and she's not making you comfortable. 

It is more than OK to get a second opinion or switch care teams. Trust your gut instinct.

There are two vets in Sydney that I have found here on the Australian Vet list: 
Castle Hill Vets
David Vella <- I really like the sound of him.

Perhaps give them a call, explain the situation...? If nothing else, they may agree to consult with your current vet team.

How is the little girl for alertness, affection and appetite? Still pain free?

:hug: to you, your family and Mochi
ray:


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## Mochi (Feb 3, 2010)

Hello again, I'm back from school and have just checked on Mochi. Honestly, that open wound on her shoulder really worries me - I'm afraid it'll get infected =/ 

She's got the three As and she looks well. Well...maybe not so much for affection but she hasn't really bonded with us that much so far. I think she likes head pats though 

She's still got some movement in her legs though, which is good, I'm just hoping the nerves don't die.

I really wish I could do something to help. Being a teenager sucks, Mum won't even let me get a job to help out =3= I sit near her when I'm doing my homework though, so I'll keep an eye on her. Mochi's a trooper she is. I just hope she gets better soon.

EDIT: Those vets are sorta far from where we live though. The drive to Crow's Nest takes...perhaps an hour and I'm not sure about Castle Hill. Then again I can't drive so *shrug* And the public transport is terrible >.> Thanks for trying to help anyway though.


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## juliew19673 (Feb 3, 2010)

A bad bruise is not cause for putting a bun down.. pain meds are necessary and limited movement of the bun is critical.

Is she eating and pooping? Drinking enough water? These are the critical "tell tale" signs (along with their movement, but she should be limited to not jumping about at all - hopping fine to get from point A to B, but limited).. 

Please update and fingers crossed for the best!


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## Pipp (Feb 3, 2010)

The wound IS an infection, it's just open now. Before it was closed. Now you can see it so it looks worse to you. 

Some abscesses can be treated easily, some not. Depends on the abscess. I think usually if they are sitting in a capsule that can be easily removed with surgery (or drained and flushed), the Vets will do that. 

If they have tentacles or are attached to something, they may only go the antibiotics route. They'll see how it responds to the current combination and take it from there. 

Also, different abscesses respond to different antibiotics. (It gets pretty complicated).

Give it some time. 


Mochi wrote:


> EDIT: Those vets are sorta far from where we live though. The drive to Crow's Nest takes...perhaps an hour and I'm not sure about Castle Hill. Then again I can't drive so *shrug* And the public transport is terrible >.> Thanks for trying to help anyway though.



I think what Autumn was saying was that your Vet could consult with them by phone. 


sas ray:


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## asianangel (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm worried about the wound closing and me not being able to get all the pus out (not having experience and all)...I mean shouldn't the vet have taken it all out??? Seems like she did some half assed job and I'm afraid of the wound closing (I came home and it looks closed somewhat, I can't keep trying to open it every hour of the night!! Also I'm scared I'll hurt Mochi if I play around with that wound too much. GRR wish I had the vet surgeon work on her.


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## Pipp (Feb 3, 2010)

Let me see if Flick or somebody has a video. Did they give you a sterile water solution? 

:?


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## asianangel (Feb 3, 2010)

NO! She didn't...which is why I'm freaking out. And 3 times to the vet in 2 days is a bit much...I'm not having her look at it again cuz I'm not paying again for her incompetence.


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## Pipp (Feb 3, 2010)

Any idea how she got the abscess? How long the lump has been there? If they examined her thoroughly, you think they would have caught it the first time -- although they can pop up quickly. 

I really doubt that they'd charge you again. Just insist that they do a better job. The Vet should have at least prepared a sterile saline solution or something for you. 

I've successfully treated my abscess bunnies (face and foot) by carefully cleaning all the tissue from the wound and rinsing it with sterile saline solution. 

You may be able to have her wound packed with antibacterial gauze or even a special medical honey. 

You do have to really be a 'nurse' with these wounds, removing dead tissue (with sterile tweezers), rinsing and packing.

One of my Vets, like many, is pro-surgery. He wants to operate to try and take it all out even if it doesn't look likely. But you have a rabbit who may not be a great anesthetic candidate, although that's only a guess. 

(EDITED FOR CLARITY) My other Vet is more inclined to clean the 'borderline' wounds and treat the bunny with injections of Bicillin and oral ChlorPalm. Some Vets think Baytril is a safer bet for babies, but others will prefer stronger stuff. But Baytril is a start. Best bet is to get a culture done, but that might cost a lot, your Vet may be just trying the Baytril first and if it works, great, if not, they'll try a culture and/or another drug (or drugs). 

Flushing the wound is probably the best treatment, at least for the short term. It may be painful (but not as bad as you think), but she is on pain meds already -- the Metacam is what they'd prescribe regardless -- and she's on antibiotics. 

ETA: Ask about using Betadine as an antiseptic. 

They just should have done a much better job of cleaning it and preparing you for continued maintenance. 

Here are a couple of articles. The first one you can show your Vet. MediRabbit is a Vet-oriented site in Switzerland, they're normally right on the mark re: treatment and they're receptive to emailed questions from other Vets. 

The second is more generalized. They're pretty gloom and doom about abscesses, but most of the bunnies I've been around have been treated successfully. 

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Bacterial/abscess_management.PDF

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=503&S=5


sas ray:


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## asianangel (Feb 3, 2010)

I have no idea how she got it...as I said before I've only had her for 1 day. The first day I felt her I thought it was just her shoulder bone so I just didn't think anything of it...when I stroked her yesterday it was a bit bigger so I got worried. 

Wow so putting medicinal honey could really help? I have some active high quality manuka honey in the pantry!


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## Pipp (Feb 3, 2010)

PS: If you've been using tap water and anything else not sterile, you probably need to get her back there pronto for the right antiseptic (Betadine?) and a proper cleaning. 

And they try and charge you, give me their email address if not their phone number, and we'll have a 'chat'. :X

sas


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## asianangel (Feb 3, 2010)

That's what the Vet used!!! She used tap water!!! At home I din't have sterile water so I just just boiled water which has been cooled.


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## Pipp (Feb 3, 2010)

asianangel wrote:


> Wow so putting medicinal honey could really help? I have some active high quality manuka honey in the pantry!



Is it medical honey? X-rayed, as described in the MediRabbit article? That might be great, ask the vet, or at least print out the MediRabbit article for the Vet and see if it fits the bill. 

sas :clover:


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## asianangel (Feb 3, 2010)

It's 10pm at night here so I'll give them a ring tomorrow and ask for the vet SURGEON. I'm not happy about what the vet did. Wonder how she got her qualification :X And working for such a respectable organization too. Bah!!


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## Pipp (Feb 3, 2010)

Any way you can get a picture of the abscess? 


sas :?


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## asianangel (Feb 3, 2010)

My camera takes crappy close up shots...but I do have something to tell you guys!

I rang up David Vella's (the rabbit specialist) vet office (they accept calls 24/7) and I told them my concerns about today's incident...and they said they shouldn't be using tap water...and that right now I should rinse it out with saline solution...since it's late and the pharmacies are closed they said the next best thing is to make it up with 2 metric cups of water with one tablespoon of table salt and rinse it out immediately with that. I'll make a few more phone calls in the morning to complain about that chick. I don't even think she washed her hands before doing anything.

My sister just poked Mochi's foot and she jerked her foot!! We thought she lost all feeling in that foot too...so we're happy about that. She's got movement in both her legs.


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## tonyshuman (Feb 3, 2010)

I would boil the water and let it cool before using to sterilize it a bit.


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## asianangel (Feb 3, 2010)

Yeh that's what I did...our family always drinks filtered, boiled water and we store one hot and one cold. I'm taking her to David Vella today to checkup...I'm gonna cancel all my appointments with the RSPCA. Incompetent!!


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## NorthernAutumn (Feb 3, 2010)

You go girl! Way to take charge! :highfive:
You're a great great bun-mom to Mochi !!

Am so pleased she moved her foot.. that's an awesome sign  You can do a bit of light massage to keep the blood moving too. I'm sure she's enjoying all the pats.

So glad you were able to hook up with David Vella 

Thinking and praying over here...
:hug: :hug: :hug:


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## asianangel (Feb 3, 2010)

Hey guys!! I'm back from David Vella's vet hospital! I had the abscess checked out again and Vella said himself that it was okay to use tap water for some wounds but he gave me some sterile saline solution to wash the wound with. Had him clean it out and check out a smaller lump which turned out to be nothing...he also did a flea check and a faecal test and found out Mochi had Coccidiosis:shock: and prescribed me a new antibiotic (Trimethoprim/sulfa)to replace Baytril. 

About the legs...she has good movement in both and just continue the original prescribed treatment. He said it was encouraging  He's a great doctor. Explained everything in detail and answered all my questions. I really left there with a peace of mind. It wasn't too expensive either!


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## Pipp (Feb 3, 2010)

Yay, sounds good!!

Out of curiosity, what did he say about the honey and Betadine? Did it come up? Does he think the abscess is a fairly easy one to treat? 



sas :clover:


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## asianangel (Feb 3, 2010)

Oh! Slipped my mind lol..didn't ask about the honey but I didn't end up using it anyway. I just used saline and now I can use sterile saline. The abscess will be fine. The new antibiotic will treat both the parasite infection as well as the abscess infection.


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## Pipp (Feb 3, 2010)

:yahoo:


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## Amy27 (Feb 3, 2010)

You are such a good bunny Mom! You have done so much for Mochi. I am so happy you got to go to a vet that explained things to you. That always makes you feel more comfortable. Good luck. I hope Mochi continues to get better and keep us updated.


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## NorthernAutumn (Feb 4, 2010)

I am so so pleased you've found a great new vet!!!
Noserubs to Mochi


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## Mochi (Feb 4, 2010)

Mochi's looking really good right now. She's eating heaps and moving her legs more every day. She looks really happy tucking into her grass. She's so cute~

Oh, I've noticed that she's been shaking her head a lot lately. Is that a good thing?


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## Pipp (Feb 4, 2010)

*Mochi wrote: *


> Oh, I've noticed that she's been shaking her head a lot lately. Is that a good thing?



No, not really. Something else to keep an eye on. 

Is she pawing at her ears or just shaking her head? Is it slightly tilting to one side or the other?

When does she do it? 

Bunnies will clean their ears with their hind feet toenails, which she can't do at the moment. It could be bothering her. That's something the Vet should have looked at, but its only been a few days and they can't think of everything. 

Check as best you can visually to make sure they don't have flakey bits (mites) or their red/yellowish deep into the ear (possible infection). 

If she has one ear redder than the other or red/purple lines developing, it will be an immediate concern.

It may just be a bit of a build-up of wax that she'd instinctually like to be able to dig out but can't, though. 

I'll check to see if there's a safe way to clean them. I don't touch my buns' ears, too easy to rupture their eardrum. 


sas :clover:


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## Mochi (Feb 4, 2010)

She doesn't really paw at them, though I've seen her clean behind her ears with one paw before when she tries to clean her face. Her ears looks fine and healthy. Nothing red or flaky.

She seems to do it at random, but she seems to do it more when she's eating. There's no head tilt or pawing or anything...she just shakes it.


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## asianangel (Feb 4, 2010)

*Pipp wrote: *


> *Mochi wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Oh, I've noticed that she's been shaking her head a lot lately. Is that a good thing?
> ...


He did check that. It was alright. He checked everything...teeth, ears, fur, bottom. He's the best. I'm serious! I would trust Mochi's life with him. I'm serious!


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## Mochi (Feb 4, 2010)

I think the head shake is a half-binky. My bad. Haha...


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## asianangel (Feb 4, 2010)

Ignore my sister...she's just bringing up non issues...I saw him check everything. -.-;; She wasn't there when it happened and has too much time to over analyse stuff.


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## PepnFluff (Feb 4, 2010)

*Pipp wrote: *


> asianangel wrote:
> 
> 
> > Wow so putting medicinal honey could really help? I have some active high quality manuka honey in the pantry!
> ...



Just for future reference Manuka honey is a great healer it's a active honey unlike your clover etc and whenever I have a cut or wound I just slather a bit in and it heals up super fast,Dr's here actually prescribe it too haha.Heres a bit about it http://manukahoney.com/have to cry at the price it's been sold overseas for though blimen crazy! Sounds like you guys are great bunny Mum's and hope she gets better quickly


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## Pipp (Feb 4, 2010)

LOL! Half binkies make perfect sense! 

If the abscess is where she can lick it, best forgo the honey. Her little gut is already dealing with coccidia, stick to fiber -- hay and pellets and veggies if she's used to them. No carbs, no sweets.

If she's getting grass, make sure its fresh and not cuttings. 

If it hasn't come up before, best to only feed her what's she's used to -- grass, hay, pellets, veggies, whatever she was getting before you got her if you know what she had. Introduce everything else slowly. No abrupt diet changes.

In case she does have any diet upsets, keep Pedialyte, plain canned pumpkin (if you have it there)and a pro-biotic like acidophilus or bene-bac handy. (A probiotic that's kept in the fridge is preferable). And Critical Care, the feeding formula. 

That's a good emergency kit to have on hand regardless. 


sas :clover:


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## asianangel (Feb 4, 2010)

Thanks Pipp I'm well informed now =) Nah I didn't use honey...I didn't want to mess with something I have no experience in.

In my lil shoebox (carrier would be too big) to take her to the vets I put all the stuff she eats in there too in case she gets hungry. I put pellets, fresh grass, hay and dandelion leaves. Good thing I put everything there cuz the vet had a good look at what I was feeding her and told me NOT to feed her pellets anymore but continue feeding the other stuff. He gave me a sheet of information to read (i think it can also be downloaded from his website www.davidvella.com.au) so I would be well informed. Rabbits eat grass in the wild and that's what they've evolved to eat so he recommended only feeding pellets occasionally. He's a big fan of grass, hay and dandelion leaves...which Mochi loooves and it's very healthy for her=) My lawn is clean as a whistle now lol...wish I had more dandelion to pick.


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## Pipp (Feb 4, 2010)

I like your Vet.  But if she's a baby and an indoor rabbit (and a baby) I think a few pellets will help replace nutrients she'd normally get from the sun. 

But yah, big fan here too of a natural diet - hay, grass, weeds, bark, veggies... 

Remember the volume required is substantial. A rabbit can eat its weight in food like that every day. In their natural environment, they spend a lot of time constantly foraging and munching away. 

Unlimited hay augmented with the other stuff is the best and easiest here, although your common hay is lucerne, not as good. Not sure what else you can get down there.

As noted grass clippings aren't good, apparently they can easily ferment in the bunny's gut, and not an option come winter, anyway. 

Trays of wheatgrass are great, but you'll be hard pressed to keep up! She'll mow down a tray of it in seconds. 

But a big variety of hay and veggies, pesticide-free dried fruit tree and other dried branches, various safe berry leaves, etc, with a teaspoonful of low-protein/high fibre pellets I'd say is the healthiest. 


sas


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## asianangel (Feb 4, 2010)

What's grass clipping? Do u mean the stuff after you mow your lawn? I've never given any of my rabbits that...I just pick blades of grass out of the ground for her with my hands. That's okay right? I've been doing that for ages.

My mum just picked LOADS of dandelion leaves from out neighbour's lawn (we asked them beforehand if they sprayed their weeds to make sure they don't have chemicals) and Mochi ate ALL of it!! Scary how much they can eat! But it's good..she's gaining weight and growing which is a good sign for a baby rabbit (vet reckons she's younger than 8 wks). 

I live in Australia so we still have grass in Winter...not really an issue  Our winters aren't cold and we don't get snow. Also I give her the occasional sprig of lavender hehe.

I soo can't stop raving about my vet! I've learnt so much from him and can call him anytime I want to ask questions =)!

But still...keep praying for Mochi's legs...I really want her to get better...just killing me right now to look at her *sigh* I love you guys...so supportive and I've learnt a lot!!!


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## Pipp (Feb 4, 2010)

asianangel wrote:


> My mum just picked LOADS of dandelion leaves from out neighbour's lawn (we asked them beforehand if they sprayed their weeds to make sure they don't have chemicals) and Mochi ate ALL of it!! Scary how much they can eat!



When I first got Pipp -- a baby dwarf at the time -- I went and dug up this HUGE dandelion plant and replanted it in a big pot in my room thinking she could nibble on it for a few days.

I walked out of the room to get some water, came back and all that was left was the root bits in the dirt! :shock:

And yup, pulled fresh grass, not cut with a machine, or left out too long. 

Also, wet spring grass should be fed with caution, thought to cause bloat. 

sas


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## asianangel (Feb 4, 2010)

*Pipp wrote*


> When I first got Pipp -- a baby dwarf at the time -- I went and dug up this HUGE dandelion plant and replanted it in a big pot in my room thinking she could nibble on it for a few days.
> 
> I walked out of the room to get some water, came back and all that was left was the root bits in the dirt! :shock:


LOL!!! AWWWW too cute!!!!


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## tonyshuman (Feb 4, 2010)

It sounds like you've got a good vet now, and lots of good advice already in this thread. I agree that some pellets could help, especially for a growing bunny. 

I really like this discussion of honey--I've seen it used (on tv of course) on wounds, and it makes a lot of biological sense for some wounds.

My boyfriend who is also a scientist did some microbiological research on bees and honey. In a typical hive, the honey is the thing that contains the least microbes (fungus, bacteria). It's almost sterile, and the high concentration of sugar in it seems to keep things from growing in it. It also draws liquid out of the wound, so you don't need to install a drain into the wound. Of course, a lot more info needs to be collected on it and I wouldn't do it w/o medical grade honey or under the care of a doctor, but it's nice when traditional remedies have some truth in them.


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## asianangel (Feb 5, 2010)

Oh no! I found another abscess on her. I don't know how we missed these things  Sometimes you don't feel them until they're big. Back to see David Vella on Monday...5 trips to the vets in a week is a bit much. The things I'd do for Mochi...*sigh*.


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## asianangel (Feb 9, 2010)

Hey everybody! I have a huge update! Mochi is able to stand a bit on both legs now!! She can hop a bit too!! Recovery will be quick now as the worst of it is over =) All abscess are taken care of. Well I can now stop worrying about her being put down/never walking again. She is a little fighter and has fought this thing sooo beautifully. Mad props to David Vella...he is such a lovely, miracle working man ! Best vet EVER!!!! SERIOUS!! =) Thanks everyone who prayed for us and gave us tips. Thank God!!! This thread can now sport a 'resolved' in its title!! =) =)


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## Pipp (Feb 9, 2010)

:yahoo:


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## NorthernAutumn (Feb 10, 2010)

:woohoo :woohoo :woohoo


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## asianangel (Feb 19, 2010)

She is running around fast like a bullet now!!! She is 100% better!!! Thank God and my AMAZING vet!!


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