# Had my guinea pig euthanized this AM



## Maureen Las (Feb 22, 2007)

This is going to be long and honest

I have too many pets but I do take excellent care of them ...most of the time

I had 2 guinea pigs that I rescued from a Petco store about 3 yrs ago.They were 2 males and probably about 2 yrs oldor so when Igot them. They live in an x-pen rather than a cage. 

After I had them awhile I did regret it as I have so many other petsand the guinea pigs are really messy. I am much more into my rabbitsand dogs than I am the guinea pigs. I took excellent physical care ofthe pigs but basically gave nothing emotional.
Anyway one of them began to devellop a lump under his front leg severalmonths ago. Rather than take him to the vet I decided to watch it forawhile as I did not want to spend more money on my animals (if it hadbeen a rabbit I would have gone to the vet right away) 

When I did go to the vet I was told that it was not an abscess (common) in guinea pigs but a tumor. Once again I decided to let it go awhile.I then went to another vet who said that it would be easy to remove asit was a free-floating tumor although he could not tell if it wouldgrow back he did think it was probably cancer (looked at fluid in aslide) He was so optimistic that I decided to have surgery on himdespite the fact that I had to fight my husband for it.
The surgery was scheduled for Feb 28th which was over 2 weeks from the vet visit. 

By that time I began to be annoyed because the surgery was notscheduled sooner. As long as I had made the decision I wantedthe tumor off as it was beginning to get big. I called another clinicbut could not get surgery any sooner.

Last night I noticed that the pig was chattering his teeth in a waythat indicated that he was in pain. The tumor had become big and redsince the vet had removed fluid from it. Last night it looked raw. 
I gave the pig meloxciam last night ..guessing the dosage based on the rabbit

This AM I called the vet and said that either they had to do surgery orI was going to have the pig euthanized. They had me bring him in ,signsurgical permits and leave him. 1hr later they called and said thatthey weren't doing surgery today but could possibly do it tomorrow asthey did not think that he was in pain from the tumor.

The woman vet did say that he looked frail and that it was possible that he had more going on. 
I decided to have the pig euthanized because I felt that I had already accumulated enough vet bills prior to the surgery

I had the guinea pig euthanized and I feel toal guilt!!!

The guinea pig could have had at least another couple months or years if I had done the surgery.

I would have done the surgery on my rabbits.


I love animals but I don't love them equally

Some animals apparently mean more to me than others. 


I broke my own rule!!!!!!!!!!!!
An animal cannot be euthanized until itdoes nothavequality of life. The guinea pig still had a good appetiteeven with the tumor
I would spend the money I don't have on the rabbits but I won't spend the money I don't have on the guinea pigs.


What kind of animal lover is that??

I truly don't want empathy ..I want honesty in respones.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Feb 23, 2007)

*angieluv wrote: *


> This is going to be long and honest
> 
> I have too many pets but I do take excellent care of them ...most of the time
> 
> ...




:nerves1I was trying to be optimistic, this really scares the b-jesus out of me!

I'm sorry for your loss sweetie. Ang, you know you've been agreat help to alot of bunnies and people. I will pray foryou. Hugs.:hug:

Crystalray:


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## MyBoyHarper (Feb 23, 2007)

Angie, it's okay. While it seems harsh and all,it is human nature. I won't lie. I have guinea pigs and they've been tothe vet and all for illnesses. However, the minute Harper sneezes, he'soff to the vet no matter what. With the guinea pigs, it's usually await and see. I love them and all, but my rabbits do mean more to me. Iam an animal love, like we all knowyou are, and I would doanythingin my power for any animal suffering or in need. Iguess it is sad to say that you would choose one animal or another, butI have done it as well. If Harper came down with a URI tomorrow, and sodid one of my guinea pigs, Harper would be going to the vet first. He'smy baby and just means so much more to me. 

I'm so sorry for the loss of your little boy piggy, but do realize thathe had a great life while he was with you. This is the honest truth,because I can tell just from being on the boards, how wonderful of ananimal owner youare. So I know they were well taken care of,more so than at the Petco or any other potential home he may havegotten instead. And at least you did take him to the vet and try. Thatis a lot more than some people would've done. It shows that you didtruly care and really did try. Maybe not as much as you should have,but you did try.

***Hugs to you!*** Love you!


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## Maureen Las (Feb 23, 2007)

Snuffles..I didn't mean to scareyou.I really hope that the pathology report comes backnegative. When jacques had his surgery the vet said that the mass"looked suspicious" so I already sort of knew before the pathologyreport came back. Did your vet say anything about whathe tookout???I did look at the pic and it look nothing like Jacques aftersurgery..he was all stitched up. There is nothing worse thanwaiting.ray:we hope for the best



MBH ..you are the first person today that made me feel better.Thanks!!We both would be crucified if we were on a guinea pig site. 
I went on a guinea pig site when I separated the bunny from the guineapig and they crucified our shelter for allowing one pig to be adoptedby itself.
I can Honestly say that if we had more money I would definitely havehad the surgery but I would have put it on a credit card ifit was a bunny. I usually feel like I almost always do the right thingfor almost all animals...but I really feel like I failed today .


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## AngelnSnuffy (Feb 23, 2007)

Angie, that scares me too, b/c that is exactlywhat the vet said "I'm suspicious because of her age". Whatthe heck does that _mean_? Dang it.:?


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## Maureen Las (Feb 23, 2007)

SnufflesDid you get my PM?...I justread back on your original post and saw that she is 6-7 yrs old and wasspayed at 2-3 yrs old. If it was cancerous cells related to thereproductiveorgans I'm fairly sure that something would havedeveloped by now. I hope someone else reads this and affirmswhat I'm saying. ...I don't know why age would make a difference otherthan immune function goes down as animals and human age.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Feb 23, 2007)

Yes, Got your PM. I just hope it'sbenign. I've had her for over 3 years and she has been onehealthy bun. Yeah, I don't think it's uterine related oranything like that, just the cancer topic alone can be misleading Iguess, and maybe I shouldn't have read it. :shock:

I'm just prayig right now. 

Thanks Angie!


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## Elizabeth (Feb 23, 2007)

You want honesty? Here goes...

I find it incredibly sad that the poor guinea pig was first deprived ofany emotional contact and then had to suffer through a tumour andfinally be killed simply because you didn't love it enough and didn'tfeel it deserved to have anymore of your money spent on it.

You said you feel guilty. Good. You should feelguilty. And when you start to feel sorry for yourself becauseyou feel so guilty, try and remember that it could be worse.You could be dead like the guinea pig. 

And the fact that you openly admit that if it had been one of yourbunnies you would have done whatever it takes to make it better butbecause it was amessy guinea pigand thereforedoesn't mean as much to youmakes me a little sick to mystomach frankly. All animals deserve the right toproper vet care regardless of how much you "love" or "value" them.

Yeah, I know you're a great rabbit owner and you at least took theguinea pig to the vet but in my opinion (and remember, you wantedhonesty not empathy) you failed this guinea pig and it paid for thatfailure with it's life. 

Do your other guinea pig a favour and get rid of it. Take itto a guinea pig rescue society or heck, drop it at a shelter.At least there it has a 50/50 chance of being properly cared for if itgets sick.


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## naturestee (Feb 23, 2007)

Ouch. I don't think I could be thatharsh. Oh and BTW, the local shelter, where she volunteers,has a horrible track record with small animals and seems tootrigger-happy about euthanasia. She does the best she can,but she's only one volunteer.

Angieluv, I do think that you were right to euthanize him at thatpoint. He was in obvious pain to you, which is a quality oflife issue. End-stage terminal cancer patients eat too, butmany would rather be dead because of the pain.

As for the other part, all I can say is I agree with MBH. Idon't think you're evil for caring for your rabbits more, and you didat least take him to a vet. While you didn't do everythingpossible for him, I also know you are in somewhat difficultcircumstances. You had to fight with your husband to get Beauhis dental surgery and I know that hurt you.

So did you fail him? Maybe somewhat. But you gavehim several good years of life and a gentle end to his pain.

:hug:


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## Elizabeth (Feb 23, 2007)

Yeah, I'm a little harsh in general Isuppose. Especially when it comes to animals and theirtreatment. But she did ask for honesty. *shrugs*

And, just so it doesn't look like I'm a raving witch, please rememberthat she didn't really say she thought he was in obvious pain she saidhe was grinding his teeth and looking like he was in pain and that thetumour was red sinceit had fluid removed fromit. Pigs grind their teeth for a number of reasons,only one of them being pain and the tumour was mostly likely swollenand red because it had fluid taken from it. The vet clinicthat I work at will warn clients that the lump may look a bit awfulafter having a needle biopsy done on it; it's perfectlynormal. And the lady saying that he was frail and quitepossibly had something else going on is not a positive diagnosis forcancer.

And also? She clearly states that she had the pig euthanizedbecause ... "I felt I had already accumulated enough vet bills prior tothe surgery"... not because she thought it was in too muchpain. 

I don't know any of Angie's circumstances and honestly, I don't care toknow. Part of being a harsh "witch" who lovesanimalsmeans not caring so much about people or their reasonsfor what they do or don't doto the animals that are in theircare.

And just for the record, I'm not disputing her ability as a rabbitmom. I'm sure she's an excellent rabbit mom, in fact it'squite evident from her comments that if this had been her rabbit shewould have done the surgery.

Besides,angie can't honestly expect that every single personon this forum was going to rush in and tell her what shedidwas okay could she have? Because it's not okayto some of us. She had to realize that posting a topic likethis was bound to be controversial especially to us members who loveour piggies just as much as our rabbits.


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## Maureen Las (Feb 23, 2007)

Elizabeth...I accept what you're saying and Iagree that I failed the guinea pig. I am trying to make up for some ofit by spending time with the other guinea pig Peter. 

I have 3 dogs, 2 cats,6 rabbits , a parrot and now 1 guineapig and a rat. I also am avolunteer staff at one of ourhumane societies. I have too many animals and some of my own animalsdon't get enough attention because of the humane society. I haveadopted animals from them to save them from euthanasia..otherwise Iwould not have so many rabbits.
I paid over $1,000 on one rabbits dental problems several months agoand literally financed most of the small animal supplies at the shelterfor the past yr and 1/2. My husband has put his foot down on myspending but I fight to my death for the rabbits.

I do have animal preferences but I don't necessarily think that that isright.It is true, however.There is not enough of meto go around, however,
I did fail the pig


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## Elizabeth (Feb 23, 2007)

I'm glad to hear you're spending more time with Peter, Angie.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with have a preference for ananimal over a different animal. I like my dogs but I LOVE mybunnies.I don't feel guilty about thatand you shouldn't feel guilty about loving your bunnies themost. I don't think it's logical to expect a personto feel the exact same way about every animal in their care.But when it comes to quality of care, my feeling is that each of themdeserves the same treatment regardless of how you feel about them and Ican't and won't compromise on that. 

That's why I was so brutally honest with you.


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## Michaela (Feb 23, 2007)

:hug:

Aww Angie, you did what you could, you didn't have the money - not yourfault, you do an unbelievable amount already, you are amazing, I reallyadmire you.:hug2:

Of course you're going to have a preference, I mean, I'd do_anything_ for my rabbits, I tried so hard for Berri:cry1:, but myhamsters - well I dunno, I'm sure if one was sick we'd get it vettreatment, but we wouldn't spend hundreds of £s like we did onBerri:dunno, we must've spent £300 on her (that's around US$560according to my phone)

I think it's because you just don't get the same interaction with ahamster, GP etc that you get from a bunny, so I don't think you canhelp but love them more:bunnyheart


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## Maureen Las (Feb 23, 2007)

"When it comes to quality of care I believe that each of them deserves equal care no matter how you feel about them"


Elizabeth...I totally feel the same way ....that's why I feel so badabout all of this. I really don't feel that an animal is here to serveme in any way.If I have certain animals that are my favoritesand a limit on the money that I can spend on all the animals then whatdo I do if I can't afford to do excellent care on all of them ? I wouldhonestly say that the dogs and rabbits are my favorites over the catsand others but I do take care of the cats and others. What does aperson do if they have an expensive medical problem with a preferredpetand a less preferred pet. A person has to make achoice ..and thats what I did

In terms of not giving the guinea pigs my attention emotionally that iswrong and another issue. I often think of this particular dilemna. 

Is it better to have several pets and take excellent care of all ofthem or is it better to take in a greater number and do the best youcan?? I don't know . Most of all my pets were saved from beingeuthanized


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## NZminilops (Feb 24, 2007)

Ok, well I'm firmly on the side of "I would giveall the pets equal care". _However _I don't think it's up to me totell you what you did was right or wrong, to help you feel ok aboutwhat you did or to pile more guilt on.

Ultimately it's up to you what you do with your animals. I admit that Ido prefer Lucky and BunBun's company over Leo's, but I would take himto the vet as quickly as I would the other two. Mostly because I feelthat as his owner, I shoulder the responsibility for his welfare. Hecan't get himself better if he is ill, and he can't ask anyone else forhelp so I must do it for him.

However, when I was younger and had my first rabbit, I also got aguinea pig too. The pig was messy, smelly and not very friendly. Ididn't like him at all (he was my mothers idea) so didn't pay muchattention to him. I really regret that, and I learnt from it.

Anyway don't beat yourself up over it, what's done is done and if you feel bad about it, think of it as a life lesson.


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## Maureen Las (Feb 24, 2007)

I have had other pets in my life euthanized andI probably grieve less about it than others because I am always surethat the time is right. I very obviously was uncertain what to doyesterday and that's why I"mso upset about this. I feel thatI should have gone ahead with the surgery and then if Pooh (the pig)did poorly I would have felt I had done everything possible. Thats whatI would normally do.

Jim ,my husband has really beenonme lately for thevet bills and the money I spend on petfood, petsupplies and the shelter(2 of the pets are on prescriptionfood, 2 of the pets are on meds)
I told the clinic yesterday that I would bringPooh in if theywould do surgery. I brought him in and they decided it could wait a day(or a week until the 28th when it was schedueled) I started calculatingthe $39.00 for the visit yesterday , surgery starting at 225.00 and thevet telling me that she thought that he was old, too thinandpossibly had more going on . I opted out of the surgery sort ofimpulsively knowing I would have to go home and explain more bills. Ialso thought that since the pig had cancer that it was possible thatthe tumor would reoccur (the slide did show carcinoma but did notdetermine which kind)

Despite all of this it is still unlike me to have done this and that why I can't let go of it. 
I learn a life lesson and Pooh loses his life
Anyway I am going to let this go now because it is counterproductiveand getting obsessive. Thanks everyone for being honest with me


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## SweetPeasMommie (Feb 24, 2007)

Angie

I understand where your coming from. You are a very good pet owner. You want honesty.

You should feel guilty of it a bit due to the fact that you would getyour bun taken care of first before other pets. that is wrong. I had 6gps and 1 dog, if one was sick they get cared for. I would never pushmy dog down the drain so my gp get the care first. Never, I had bunstoo. It shows that you favor buns than other pets then maybe you shouldonly own buns.

I don't favor pets. I love dogs more than anything but I love all pets.I treated them all equally. When I had 22 gps, I had 2 lop buns and 2dogs in a 2 big bedroom apt. 

They all got cared for equally. If we could not handle that many or don't want vet bills then its time to rehome.

so if that is how you feel then maybe you should cut the herd down.

i hope you understand where i am coming from.

I had one gp that needs more vet care than anything. If she was sickshe was rushed in, if I had another gp sick at the same time then theyboth go in. she was a lethal who is blind and deaf, Only had 2 topfront teeths. I just want you to know that you should split the moneyup for each pet.


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## Maureen Las (Feb 24, 2007)

Sweet peas Mom's..you're right. I understandwhere you're coming from. Even though I have my flaws I still thinkthat I'm an excellent pet owner.. it would be difficult for me to "trimthe herd" because I wouldn't trust too many other people with my petsas I have so many that are elderly or have health problems.
I think that I need to promise myself not to rescue anymore as that is where this all started. 
When I started at the shelter i rescued any rabbit that was to beeuthanized sort of desperately trying to save its life but without muchconsideration to the amount of money this all would add up to. 
If I had it the way I wanted I would have dogs and rabbits and maybe a couple rats. 

In the meantime it is only right to spend equal amounts on each pet . I am learning a lot from this experience. Thanks


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## SweetPeasMommie (Feb 24, 2007)

Hey I know what you mean trying to trim down thenumber. When we were planing on moving we were searching for a housefor rent that allows pets, just 6 gps and 1 dog.

We find a house that we were exactly looking for. WE needed a bedroom on the ground floor for my hubby's dad.

Well the worst thing that I ever had done to my life was rehoming all my gps but get to keep the dog. I was angry and upset. 

We even told them that they do not roam the house and live in the cage90 percent of the time. Nope so they are in ohio and one is in theother side of Pa.

What you can do is give Petie everything you can until his time to goand meet up with his brother. Once that happens don't get piggies untilyou feel your read again. YOu know what I mean.


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## Bassetluv (Feb 26, 2007)

angieluv, I admire your courage in creating athread about your anguish over the decision you made to end your guineapig's life, especially in a forum filled with animal lovers. I willadmit that I've had animals in the past where I had to make certaindecisions about their care, and most likely would have been judged byothers about those decisions. I've seen people from one end of thescale to the other with regard to animal care...there are those whowill go to the limits and beyond for their pets; yet there are otherswho have thrown their pets away rather than be bothered having to carefor them any more. (One example of that was a lady I saw at the vetsmany years ago...she brought in the most beautiful orange tabby cat anddemanded he be euthanized. When the vet asked why, she said that thelast of her children had just left for college, and she just didn'twant to be bothered having to feed and care for the cat.) And there areall sorts of in-betweens. There are all sorts of people in this worldwith varying degrees of what they decide to take on or not take on withregard to their pets. What is right for one person isn't necessarilyright for another. While I do believe that we should do what's best forour pets, as they depend completely upon us, sometimes limitations dobefall us.

Personally, I am a great believer in all things happening for a reason.Perhaps your guinea pig became ill in an effort (at a soul level) tobring to your attention that with the number of pets you have, some ofthem were not receiving the amount of attention that would be requiredof them to have a completely fulfilling life. Perhaps he was bringingyou the lesson of knowing your limitations, learning to not take onmore than you can handle with animals...which can be a common occurancewith animal lovers. My personal opinion in all of this is for you tolet go of the guilt and instead, embrace the teaching that this littlesoul brought to you, whatever you determine that teaching to be. 

:hug2:


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## OneBadBunny!!! (Feb 27, 2007)

Angie,

Honesty hurts... I think that you could have done a better job takingcare of your guinea pig. However, I understand what its like to have avery ill pet. Rex, a late guinea pig of mine, got sick a few years ago.When the vet bills were about $900 we paid and Rex was still gettingworse. On his last night he was clearly suffering and the vet's officewas closed. In the end we decided that an overdose on his pain medswould be the most humane thing to do. I can understand that youprobablly needed to put you piggy down. 

But I can't understand how you wouldn't give him the same treatment asyou would another pet. Or why you "gave nothing emotionally". I wonderif you would all be so understanding if she said that she put therabbit down, but would have done the surgery on the guinea pig. 

I think I actually favor my pigs, as they are a lot easier to pleaseand, in my opinion, give more love back. But maybe Ijust havean independant bunny.lol. However, I would always give Peter, my bunny,the same care as my other pets regardless of my prefferences.

You are clearly a good pet owner! I can tell this and I don't even knowyou. You are doing a very nice thing saving these pets, but maybe youshould think about the quality of life, rather than the quantity ofyears.

I'm not saying you should get rid of your buns, who yiou clearly ovetoo much. But maybe you culd try and swallow your pride a bit and finda new home for the remainig guinea pig. No one will judge you,youhave obviously done whats best for the animals so far, socontinue the tradition. 

Where do you live, maybe if you decide to, i could help you find a home for your Peter.


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## Maureen Las (Feb 28, 2007)

I'm not going to give up Petey but am settingaside time every day to hold him and pet him. I think that I felt thatboth pigs gave each other company and because they had each other Ididn't have to give as much. I have a bonded pair of bunnies who reallyare so interested in each other that they want very little to do withme. 

I think that the problem with my life is that between the shelter andmy home there is not enough of me to go around. Yesterday I spent 5 hrsat the shelter where we have a (I think) a pregnant doe rabbit , 2guinea pigs who were physically neglected and have the beginning ofscurvy plus terrible cysts and another surrendered male rabbit . I wasspending a lot of time trying to figure out how to get the vitamin cinto the pigs as they don't like it in the water. I foster therabbitsat home after they are altered andI spend alot of time worrying about the shelter animals. 
When I get home I have a household full of animals (14)andsometimes I cannot spread enough affection around..even to the rabbits.
After I have had 5 days to read posts and reflect on all this I knowfor sure that my initial post was written specifically so that I wouldreceive criticsm (as I do feel guilty about the guinea pig.)
When an animal is old I probably will not go the whole 9 yards withtreatment if I know a younger petis in need of somethingbecause I can't afford to go the whole 9 yards with all of them .
If the guinea pig had been younger I would have had the surgery but he was an older pet
Part of me is sorry that I wrote this post as I brought all this on myself. 

I don't plan on getting more pets (that means that I say goodbye to theones at the shelter that are being put down. Do you know what thatfeels like?)
Maybe I felt that a few good years with me is better than dying healthy and young at the shelter.
If you are not at a kill shelter you cannot know the pressureon someone like myself to "save" the animal . This includes spendinghours on the phone and computer trying to find "no-kill" shelters orfoster homes to save animals.

Today, 6 days after I had the pig euthanized , I am going to defend myselffor the 1st time.
I doubt that anyone else in my shoes could do better


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## SweetPeasMommie (Feb 28, 2007)

Angie do you have a GNC store near by.

Look for vit C chewables in 100 mg. Cut them in 4ths give one peice to a pig.

If they don't like it, you could get baby food, sprinkle Vit C chewables on a small amount of baby food and give it to them.

Get like a pear flavor or apple, Don't get bannanas since it gives themconsipation. I hope this helps. If you need advice on gps let me know Ican give you as much as I can.


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## Maureen Las (Feb 28, 2007)

Hey....thanks a lot. I was readingabout it on the computer and thought that maybe they would needinjections. I have bought the vitC at GNCfor myselfand I think it comes flavored. Thats a great idea and I'll let you knowhow it works (although this sounds like an easy way to get it in them)


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## SweetPeasMommie (Feb 28, 2007)

Some of my gps liked it and some would just make a face and walk away or spit it out.

No prob, he if you need anything for gps let me know. I have so much knowledge for them that ppl think I am a vet tech.


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## OneBadBunny!!! (Feb 28, 2007)

> If you are not at a killshelter you cannot know the pressure on someone like myself to "save"the animal .


Oh boy... How do you think I wound up with as many animals I did?lol


> I doubt that anyone else in my shoes could do better


I agree with you. And I'm pretty sure that I didn't say anything in mypost about the euthanization of your pig being wrong. My problem waswith the socializing or lack there of. And the fact that you would havedone better for your bunnies.


> Yesterday I spent 5 hrs at the shelter where we have a (I think) apregnant doe rabbit , 2 guinea pigs who were physically neglected andhave the beginning of scurvy plus terrible cysts and anothersurrendered male rabbit .


Thats aweful, agian, where do you live? If I'm not close enoughto help personally, maybe I could help you find non-kill rescues orfoster homes...

As for the scurvy pigs. I currently own 7 pigs and have owned pigs mywhole life. I know I'm young, but I do know quite a lot about them. Youcould try a variety of Vit. C enriched foods including: oranges,strawberries, etc. Also Petsmart and Petco carry Vitacraft orangetreats. They contain plenty of Vit. C. Guinea pig pellets also containVit. C. Remember that there is no such thing as overdosing on Vit. C inguinea pigs!


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## SweetPeasMommie (Feb 28, 2007)

Trust me, vitacraft are bad, even the kind thatgoes in the water. They do no work at all since pet stores do not checkthe dates and rotates so who knows how long the products last. Pigshate them flavored waters. I have had well over 50 of them in my home.


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## Maureen Las (Feb 28, 2007)

Thanks onebadbunny

I am in La Crosse Wi. and have taken guinea pigs fromourshelter to Baraboo. It is sometimes difficult to get them in.. but theydo have foster homes near madisonand several have gone to afoster home in Rhinelander Wi. 
Right now we are in the middle of record breaking snow..have 20inchesand more on the way so I don't think that we will be travelling reallysoon.

I joined the guinea lynx forum (thank you SPM) and just posted on that site. 
Right now I am going to try to get the shelter to take these pigs toanother vet as I don't think that the one on call this week knowsexotics well. 

I can also e-mail one of the rescuers for more advice on the one really sick pig. 

I have become rather sensitive about my original post as I already knowI was wrong not to give the guinea pigs emotional attention but I canonly reflect on my own behaviour and try to change it and I will changeit.

If you are at a kill shelter then you do understand what I mean.


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## SweetPeasMommie (Feb 28, 2007)

Any time Angie, they are a great resource site for gps. Wonderful to learn from.


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## OneBadBunny!!! (Mar 1, 2007)

caviesgalore.com is a great forum. they have anadoption section and the people are great! I am actually a member,"BanditBoy", you should join. They are very cavy knowledgable and theyeven set up pig trains to get pigs to new homes. I wouldn'tmentionthe story about your pigs not getting attention or thesurgery though, as they would probably be reallyoffended.Anyway you should definately join, they would beable to give advise on the sick guinea pigs and possibly help with newhomes or local rescues/fosters etc...


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## OneBadBunny!!! (Mar 1, 2007)

Maybe this will help...

HIGH Vitamin C foods:
- Guinea pig pellets with stabilized vitamin C - alfalfa based foryoungsters, pregnant &amp; nursing sows, slim or sick pigs; timothybased for healthy, grown, chubby pigs (do not substitute rabbit orchinchilla pellets; avoid mixes with nuts, seeds or colored bits)

- Parsley - curly or plain (high in calcium)
- Cilantro / Chinese Parsley / Corriander greens
- Celery leaves 

- Collard greens
- Mustard greens / Leaf Mustard 
- Water Cress
- Garden Cress
- Swiss Chard, Red Chard
- Beet greens
- Spinach (feed in moderation, linked to formation of kidney &amp; bladder stones)
- Carrot tops / leaves
- Peas in pods, Pea Shoots (not dried)

- Dandelion greens
- Grass - wheat, winter rye (grown in pots from seed)

- Kale - curly or plain
- Broccoli, Broccolini (stems are liked better than flowers)
- Broccoli Rabe / Rabe / Rapini
- Cauliflower / Broccoflower
- Brussels Sprouts
- Cabbage 
- Red Cabbage
- Tuscan Cabbage / Cavolo Nero
- Savoy Cabbage
- Kohlrabi leaves

- Bell / Sweet Peppers - red, green, yellow (not hot or chile)
- Tomato (sores around mouth can develop; leaves poisonous; artificially grown can be low in vit C)
- Tamarillo (leaves poisonous)

- Orange (caution - sores around lips can develop)
- Tangerine / Mandarin (caution - sores around lips can develop)
- Grapefruit (caution - sores around lips can develop)
- Lemon, Lime (home-grown best, otherwise feed cautiously)
- Cantaloupe Melon 
- Honeydew Melon 
- Currants - yellow, red or black (leaves also edible)
- Gooseberries
- Strawberries
- Kiwi Fruit
- Mango
- Guava 
- Feijoa / Pineapple Guava
- Papaya / Paw Paw / Tree Melon
- Persimmon - american or oriental
- Rosehip


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## Maureen Las (Mar 1, 2007)

Thanks onebadbunny...I did join guinea lynx andgot some great help and actually didn't read this post untilnow. have talked with the director of the shelter in terms ofgetting a 2nd opinion on the guinea pig as the seizures could be areally bad mite infestation. Thanks so much for the links and also thevit C veggies. Really appreciate it.


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## Pipp (Mar 4, 2007)

I'm only just seeingthis post now,sorry, and I can't believe some of what I'mreading. This is like saying that you're livingwith a husband and a homestay student, and they should be treatedequally with yourresources because you committed to theircare.Yes, the little piggie deserves to haveeverything possible done for him, so does every human, but that justdoesn't happen. It's commendable to supportyourneighbours and the starving children in Africa, but youcan'tgive all you've got unless it's alovedone. Mother Teresa is not the norm. 

Maureen is possiblythe most passionate and productivecaregiver on this forum. She's certainly among the verytop.She doesn't just care for the pets she loves,she throws herself into the care and well-being offurrystrangers, and it's all at a great personal cost.

Just because her commitment to this little pig doesn't matchherover-the-top efforts for her bunnies,she'streated so harshly?It's a good bet that 90% oftheowners out there wouldn'tprovide any treatmentto a pig at all. How many times do we meet people who say, 'Ihad a rabbit once, but it died.' 'Oh, what happened?' 'Idunno, itgot sick and died.' You think they'd take in theirkids' guinea pig?

It's also not factoring in the pain and suffering of old age.I would seriously consider euthanizing myself if I was faced with thepain of aninevitable decline.I'd like togo out on a high note with fond memories of my life. I'm nowseriously considering euthanizing one of mycats.She's 17, she has a horribly uncomfortableskin condition andother problems that they just can't seem tofix.She's not dying,but she'smiserable.Ifeel guilty because she'sreally has been cast aside since the rabbits came along, I'm sure thestress of the bunnies not even allowing her in my room much less on mylap isn't helping, but I also don't want to run uphorrendousvet bills just to alleviatemy guilt, especially when I knowthere's no instant fix. We might get her more comfortable,but I may just as easily be condemning her tomonthsmoreagony only to have something elseage-related go wrong with her. That's a decision I still haveto make -- and yes, I will go onawhile longer, but onlybecause I think there are still a few things to try that won't breakthe bank. And if I don't and someone judges me forthat, a pox on them. 

I'm a huge advocate of all life being equal, I don't eat any animals,but I'm not more put off by somebody eating a dog than a cow, and Ieven respect insects. But to say someone shouldbepolitically correct within their household by committing toall as equal tenants is a holier-than-thou sham. 

Maureen, thanks for helping those little piggies out. Andmost certainly don't 'get rid of' Peter. (I hate thatterm,its used for garbage, not pets). 

sas :rant:


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## Maureen Las (Mar 4, 2007)

Thank you so much Pipp as I pm'd you.

Some good came out of it as I am now in the middle of attempting to getthe appropriate medical care for 2 piggies at the shelter that wereneglected.... I also give Petey daily attention.


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## ahri22 (Mar 6, 2007)

Yesterday I thought my daughter's pet mouse wasdying. If the mouse had been a cat, a dog or a bunny, I would havetaken it to the vet's. But because it's a mouse, I didn't. Is thatwrong of me?? Probably... According to some people here, I suppose itwas wrong!

We have had the mouse almost a year (got her for my daughter's birthdayon March 22nd last year). She was quite young then, so wouldn't be muchover a year now (expected life spans of mice are between 1 and 2 years,so I would have thought she'd have a few more months). She's had issueswith her skin. She used to have woodshavings in her cage, but developedallergies or something and scratched her ears so badly the edges weretorn off, so we put her in shredded paper but she doesn't seem to likeit as much. It also stops her wheel moving properly, and she doesn'tseem to be exercising as much as usual and is getting very fat.

Anyway, yesterday I found her in her little TV (where she sleeps), shewas very still and felt very cold. I put her in a little box surroundedby tissues and put the heater on to warm her up, I gave her some waterby hand, and kept her beside me all day. But I didn't take her to avet. Luckily, she started to perk up, we put her back in her cage andshe started eating again. So, all in all, I'm really happy!! I havealways loved our mice, and I've always cried when they died, but I'venever taken them to a vet or given them the samelevel of care in that way that I've given my bigger animals.Maybe it's because their lives are short, I don't know! 

I guess the fact is that people do treat their pets differently. Theycan love them all, but not in the same ways and not to the samedegrees. 

I also think that it's better to save an animal from a kill shelter andgive it at least a reasonable quality of life than not to give it achance at all!! With so many animals, it's impossible to give each one100% of your time and energy and love. A guinea pig with a companionmay not miss human companionship much at all, and provided that it'swell cared for with food, shelter and bedding, then who's to say itisn't a good enough life? Many pets get a lot less, and many, manyanimals (I don't want to know how many!) get abandoned and killed. I'drather see those animals in the homes of people who will provide fortheir basic needs rather than see them put down, even if as pets theydon't get as much attention as others, simply because there just isn'tthe time to give them that attention.


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## Elizabeth (Mar 6, 2007)

*Pipp wrote: *


> Justbecause her commitment to this little pig doesn't matchherover-the-top efforts for her bunnies,she'streated so harshly?It's a good bet that 90% oftheowners out there wouldn'tprovide any treatmentto a pig at all. How many times do we meet people who say, 'Ihad a rabbit once, but it died.' 'Oh, what happened?' 'Idunno, itgot sick and died.' You think they'd take in theirkids' guinea pig?


I stand by what I said to angieluv. If you take in an animalthen you must provide proper vet care for it, regardless of how muchyou do or don't love it. Why should one animal in your careget better treatment than the others? What makes bunnies morespecial than guinea pigs, ora mouseor a cat forthat matter? 

The hardest part about being in rescue is learning to say no.If you can't say no, then be prepared to provide proper care (and thatincludes vet care) for all the animals in yourhousehold orlearn to say no and excuse yourself from rescue until you're able toprovidethe carethe animal needs. 

Animals do not fear death, only pain. Keeping that in mind,in my opinion, taking in an animal because it's going to be euthanizedand then not providing proper vet care for _whatever_ reason isworse than leaving it to be euthanized.


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## Maureen Las (Mar 6, 2007)

Instead of focusing on me...a person whoprovides proper and sometimes extensive vet care on allherpets why don't you take a look at the dairy, hog, and beefindustries in which unspeakable acts of cruelty on farm animals is thenorm . Why is a cow or pig any different than a mouse or a guinea pig.?Its still an animal and thats why I'm a vegetarian but not a vegetarianthat sits in judgement of everyone else that is not.


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## Elizabeth (Mar 6, 2007)

*angieluv wrote:*


> Instead of focusing on me...a person who provides proper andsometimes extensive vet care on all herpets whydon't you take a look at the dairy, hog, and beef industries in whichunspeakable acts of cruelty on farm animals is the norm . Why is a cowor pig any different than a mouse or a guinea pig.? Its still an animaland thats why I'm a vegetarian but not a vegetarian that sits injudgement of everyone else that is not.


I think it's a fair and safe assumption to say that you brought the focus on yourself when you made the initial post. 

And again, I'm not disputing the fact that you're an owner who providesproper and sometimes extensive vet care; you made it perfectly clearseveral times over that as long as it's an animal you feel passionatelyabout (i.e. a bunny) then you're more than willing to provide extensivevet care.

And to bring the "beef, hog and chicken" industry's acts of crueltyinto thisconversation and tell me to focus on that instead,is honestly? Just plain silly. You know nothingabout me; how do you know I'm not already passionately involved withthat cause?

And yeah, I'm pretty judgemental, I'll admit it. I'm alsovain, sometimes a hyprocrite, I can't cook worth a ****, myhousekeeping skills are horrendous, I have a terrible temper, my mathskills are non-existent, I tickle my husband even though I know hehates itand I could use some seriousconditioningfor my split ends. 

I'm flawed andI accept it. Hee!


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## Maureen Las (Mar 7, 2007)

I really understand what you're saying.Elizabeth, but I started this post a long time ago and I'm worn out byit (although it really caused me to think seriously about everythingsaid)
In general I agree with what you are saying and to bring the farmindustry into the discussion is silly but I got off the original topic .
I also am a horrible housekeeper, can't cook at all, have no mathskillsand have a terrible temper so we have something incommon....I'm flawed too!!!


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