# What could a very increased appetite indicate (besides kidney or thyroid issues)?



## Jenk (Jan 8, 2012)

My 3.5-year-old Cali boy, Pinkerton, started eating as much hay in 8-12 hours as he used to eat in 24 hours. (I've started rationing hay to keep him from eating it too quickly.) He now can go from eating 6 Tbsp. of pellets, to 3-4 C. of greens, to more hay--with barely a rest, which is abnormal for him. Heâs also much more restless, more alert. Iâll find him sitting upright minutes after he flopped. And, of course, heâs awake much more during the night in order to consume so much more hay.

His recent blood work reveals nothing amiss, per the vet. I've compared his recent blood work to that done in 2008 and 2010. I notice that his CPK values have gone from 482, to 175, to 853. And his lymphocyte values have consistently decreased from 5304, to 3828, to 1938. Could these changes indicate something the blood work isn't spelling out in full: kidney failure, hyperthyroidism, or even a tumor?

In mid-Nov., I learned that Pink had lost weightâfrom 9.3 lbs. to 8.6 lbs. (On 1/2/12, his weight was 8.94 lbs.; ingesta may have boosted it, since Pink had eaten much hay overnight and consumed pellets two hours before his appointment.) 

Iâm considering conferring with an exotics-only vet see if he could uncover the possible cause of Pinkâs initial weight loss, increased hunger, and restlessness.


Thank you,

Jenk


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## OneTwoThree (Jan 8, 2012)

Maybe the hay was just a good bunch? I don't know about the rest, being awake and such. I would call a vet and see if it sounds like any symptoms they recognize.


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## Nancy McClelland (Jan 8, 2012)

:yeahthat: Our mini rex eats as much hay as our gigantic lopp and only is a third the size. She's always been a hay lover and doesn't eat much pellet.


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## Jenk (Jan 8, 2012)

*OneTwoThree wrote: *


> Maybe the hay was just a good bunch? I don't know about the rest, being awake and such. I would call a vet and see if it sounds like any symptoms they recognize.


Tomorrow morning, I will call the exotics-only vet who last examined Pink in early December. 


Jenk


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## LakeCondo (Jan 8, 2012)

I wonder if x-rays or other scanning would be useful. That could show or rule out a tumor.

If Pink were a human, I'd think it might be too much caffeine or an emotional problem, but I guess those can be ruled out.


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## Jenk (Jan 8, 2012)

*Nancy McClelland wrote: *


> :yeahthat: Our mini rex eats as much hay as our gigantic lopp and only is a third the size. She's always been a hay lover and doesn't eat much pellet.


This is not a typical increase in hay consumption for Pink. His litter box--a large mortar-mixing pan--is filled filled end-to-end and piled high with hay. I know the average amount of hay he can eat in 24 hours. And in spite of a recent weight loss, he is wolfing down hay in a record amount of time--which can lead to problems, if the rate of elimination can't keep up with the rate of ingestion. He's also eating pellets in record time, in spite of all the hay from which he should feel full.

Seemingly as a result of all the hay he's sucking down, his gut sounds have been abnormally loud. I can hear them from halfway across the room.

I don't know what concerns me more: the weight loss/increased food consumption or his hyper behavior.


Jenk


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## Jenk (Jan 8, 2012)

*LakeCondo wrote: *


> I wonder if x-rays or other scanning would be useful. That could show or rule out a tumor.


That thought has crossed my mind. The exotics-only vet has digital radiography, which I think might prove more useful than traditional radiography at this point. Not that I _want_ to find out that something like that is at play, but still...




> If Pink were a human, I'd think it might be too much caffeine or an emotional problem, but I guess those can be ruled out.


I swear that I never let Pink have access to any caffeine.  Normally, he's extremely laid back, so his new restless behavior sticks out like a sore thumb.


Jenk


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## LakeCondo (Jan 8, 2012)

Was the glucose level in the blood test ok? Diabetes is a possibility, I just realized, with increased hunger & thirst but weight loss. That is, it is with people, so I assume it'd also be for rabbits.


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## Jenk (Jan 8, 2012)

*LakeCondo wrote: *


> Was the glucose level in the blood test ok? Diabetes is a possibility, I just realized, with increased hunger & thirst but weight loss. That is, it is with people, so I assume it'd also be for rabbits.


This time, his glucose level was 115 (out of the 80-150 range used by the lab). 

It was high (174) 2010 but was normal (116) in 2008.


Jenk


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## LakeCondo (Jan 9, 2012)

That sounds ok, then, but it wouldn't hurt to have a test of the glucose in the urine. Other than diabetes, the only other medical problem I can think of that could possibly fit the symptoms is bulimia, & I don't imagine Pink is taking laxatives so he can eat all he wants & not gain weight.

Rabbit Health in the 21st Century says that CPK results aren't reliable for rabbits because the stress of being at the vets & having blood drawn can cause them to be elevated.

The lymphocyte value is still within the 1500-7000 normal range. The book says a low number can be due to a viral infection, stress, or steroids. I assume you can rule out the latter.


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## Jenk (Jan 9, 2012)

*LakeCondo wrote: *


> That sounds ok, then, but it wouldn't hurt to have a test of the glucose in the urine. Other than diabetes, the only other medical problem I can think of that could possibly fit the symptoms is bulimia, & I don't imagine Pink is taking laxatives so he can eat all he wants & not gain weight.


Good argument for a urinalysis. I'll definitely ask the vet to do one, although I strongly suspect he'll recommend it before I ask. And, no, Pink isn't taking laxatives in order to gorge on food and not gain weight. :biggrin2:




> Rabbit Health in the 21st Century says that CPK results aren't reliable for rabbits because the stress of being at the vets & having blood drawn can cause them to be elevated.


Dear gravy... I have that book somewhere and completely forgot about it. (I recently reviewed some sub-chapters in _When Your Rabbit Needs Special Care_ but didn't search it for info. on blood-work values.) 

I read somewhere that a high CPK value relates to the deterioration of muscle and/or two other things.... I'm having a brain-fart moment but will look it up again.




> The lymphocyte value is still within the 1500-7000 normal range. The book says a low number can be due to a viral infection, stress, or steroids. I assume you can rule out the latter.


Although it is within the normal range, I find it odd that it's continued to decrease over time and is nearing the low end of the range. I suppose I wouldn't it give nearly as much thought if not for the fact that Pink is sucking in hay--and all other food--like it's going out of style.


Jenk


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## Bunnylova4eva (Jan 9, 2012)

Kinda off subject, but just wondering, do you like your all exotics vet? Like do you find it better than just a regular vet? Is it more expensive? I've thought of going to an all exotics vet but didn't know if it'd be really expensive vs. a normal vet. and I'm trying to keep costs down. I really like our current vet but I'm curious now.


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## Jenk (Jan 9, 2012)

*Bunnylova4eva wrote: *


> Kinda off subject, but just wondering, do you like your all exotics vet? Like do you find it better than just a regular vet? Is it more expensive? I've thought of going to an all exotics vet but didn't know if it'd be really expensive vs. a normal vet. and I'm trying to keep costs down. I really like our current vet but I'm curious now.


I rely on the exotics-only (EO) vet at times because he's treated more rabbits for more years than has my regular vet, whom is rabbit-savvy. He also offers more up-to-date diagnostics--like in-house urinalysis and digital radiography. I figure that Pink might need x-rays at this point, and I'd rather have the clarity of digital images.

Some tests the EO vet runs cost more than they do at my regular vet's; some tests cost less. In the end, the cost of both vets are fairly even--and both cost me too much. 

One drawback is that my EO vet is a 40-minute drive from my home, while my regular vet is a 9-minute drive from my home. I dislike stressing the buns with a longer drive; sometimes, I think the expertise of an EO professional is a necessary evil.

By the way, I have an appointment with the EO vet for tomorrow at 1:30 PM (CST). Please keep your fingers crossed that: 1) the vet uncovers the problem, and 2) it is treatable.


Jenk


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## LakeCondo (Jan 9, 2012)

Yes, best of good luck. :apollo: :bestwishes:


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## Flopsyrabbit (Jan 9, 2012)

Well I would definitely call or go to the vet. But even if you have to drive for an hour to go to a good vet it is worth it. It could be that he just loves hay but having all those other problems is probably something. I hope pinky gets back to his normal self soon.ray::bunnydance:


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## Jenk (Jan 11, 2012)

*Minor update:* The exotics-only vet took blood work to test Pink's thyroid (T3 and T4) function. He'll call with the results either tomorrow or Friday.

If everything comes back negative, I will be stumped beyond belief as to why Pink has started eating more hay in 12-14 hours' time than he used to eat in 24 hours'. (His recent blood-chem. panel was normal--including his glucose level; it would seem that Diabetes is also out as a possible cause.)


Jenk


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## LakeCondo (Jan 11, 2012)

I wonder if there is a vet Dr House. :?:


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## Jenk (Jan 11, 2012)

*LakeCondo wrote: *


> I wonder if there is a vet Dr House. :?:


I'm quite nervous about the fact that Pink has lost weight, in spite of his diet not changing one iota. I think the only reason his weight recently increased--but not his typical max. weight--is due to all the ingesta material inside of him. (His stomach has felt hard/distended for the last several days.)

It may seem cruel, but I plan to not feed him any pellets today (and possibly tomorrow). I will continue feeding him greens and rationing his hay throughout the day. I hope to feel some softness return to his stomach/cecum. 


Jenk


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## oryctolaguslady (Jan 11, 2012)

While high CPK can be brought on by stress, it can also indicate renal disease, severe muscle damage, or dehydration. Decreasing lymphocyte valuesmay signify an infection somewhere. 

Increased appetite can come from decreased temperatures or nutrient deficiencies, but it does not sound as though that is the case with Pink. Greatly increased hay consumption can lead to weight loss through lack of nutrition (rabbits get little nutrition from hay - it is most important for the fiber), but if Pink is still consuming pellets and greens that would also appear unlikely. 

Frankly I am as puzzled as everyone else since diabetes is apparently unlikely.


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## LakeCondo (Jan 11, 2012)

What were his glucose levels on previous tests? Maybe something kept the reading low on the last test. I don't know what that could be, but I'd still think a urinalysis would be a good idea.


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## Jenk (Jan 12, 2012)

*LakeCondo wrote: *


> What were his glucose levels on previous tests? Maybe something kept the reading low on the last test. I don't know what that could be, but I'd still think a urinalysis would be a good idea.


I know his glucose level was within the "normal" range--116, I think.

I won't jump to another test until I know the thyroid test results. If those results turn out to be "normal," I'll ask the vet about the possibility of internal parasites caused by the external parasite issue we had this past fall.

A major frustration is the concern that Pink could suffer cecum impaction, if he continues sucking down food and not drinking quite enough water; it's for this reason that I've been rationing his hay.


Jenk


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