# SITE DESIGN FEEDBACK (new)



## Pipp (Mar 8, 2008)

Check out what the designer has done so far... She still has to add the icons, which hopefully will improve it -- considerably. 

http://wowclassicbb.com/test/

I don't like it at all, personally, I prefer my original andStephie's banners -- andBecknutt's banner, too(at the bottom of the Library Banner thread, here: http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=29705&forum_id=56).

This is changed from her first version that was the same except with a lot of purple. :shock:I had asked for the color scheme to remain similar (green, blue, pink -- like meadows, sky and bunny noses) but either I'm not explaining it well or shehates that color scheme. 

I did ask to see what a textured salmon backgound would look like with lighter boxes (like the stogiechat site she also designed -- http://www.stogiechat.com/cigar-forum -- but what she came up with looks more orange to me. 

So what does everybody think?


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## JadeIcing (Mar 8, 2008)

Honestly?


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 8, 2008)

First of all It's not Rabbit's Online.net

It's Rabbits Online or RabbitsOnline.net. Unless a rabbit owns the site - could be Rabbits' online if multiple rabbits own it.... 

I do like the look however, it's neat, looks professional in a sense.

Ok... I'll finish looking.


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## JadeIcing (Mar 8, 2008)

Like the look...HATE the color.


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## undergunfire (Mar 8, 2008)

Yuck! I hate pink, lol.


I hope we can change color schemes through our accounts . It's going to take a long time to get used to a "new" RO.

It stinks sometimes, because when a forum changes or you want to join a new one but the layout looks horrible, you don't want to be on there anymore or join.

I've turned down a few animal forums because of their layouts...they were "ugly to the eye".


Hopefully a nice RO forum layout will be able to happen .


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 8, 2008)

Yep, I like the orange/peach design.


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 8, 2008)

Umm..... it's not pink - it's peach and salmon.


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 8, 2008)

hehe..... I just looked at the thread you linked.... I thought it was just our main page LOL>

Actually I like stephanie's banner best

Code= <a href="http://rabbitsonline.net" target="_blank"><img src="http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u203/stephiemarie78/rologo.jpg" border="0" alt="RabbitsOnline.Net"></a>

I also kinda like this and the colors:

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh8/somebunnie/Untitled-1copy.jpg


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## JadeIcing (Mar 8, 2008)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> I also kinda like this and the colors:
> 
> http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh8/somebunnie/Untitled-1copy.jpg


I LOVE blue


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## Pipp (Mar 8, 2008)

I'd like a lot more greens (and blues) and a touch of pink (or salmon), hate the peach/pink combo. Bigtime. 

It's better than the purple. 

I did explain that although we're a warm and fuzzy rabbit site, we're not a kids site, it's educational more than cute. Pink and purple don't cut it -- although a some pink (or salmon) may be cool?Dunno. 

I had no idea what I was doing when I did the current theme tweaks, couldn't do much at all, but I prefer the current color scheme -- although possibly the textured salmon might work with more deeper greens and blues? Not sure. 

And the banner doesn't do much to showcase any rabbits, maybe the font would be liveable if it was in the green it was supposed to be in.


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## Pipp (Mar 8, 2008)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> Code= <a href="http://rabbitsonline.net" target="_blank"><img src="http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u203/stephiemarie78/rologo.jpg" border="0" alt="RabbitsOnline.Net"></a>


what's this?


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## Michaela (Mar 8, 2008)

Oh, um, well, ah...

I love pink - that's not pink. :? 

My honest opinion? I'm not fond of it.. I don't like the textured background or the colours, and the banner? Tbh I could do better with my very limited PS skills. 

But I'm sure I'll get used to it.


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## Pipp (Mar 8, 2008)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> Yep, I like the orange/peach design.



that's the problem! It looks orange to me too. I REALLY hate orange. And Purple. And Yellow. 

:biggrin2:


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## Pipp (Mar 8, 2008)

*Michaela wrote: *


> My honest opinion? I'm not fond of it.. I don't like the textured background or the colours, and the banner? Tbh I could do better with my very limited PS skills.



I'm with you Michaela.  

But we don't have to get used to it, we just need to tell her what we want instead. I'm not totally convinced the textured background is the problem, but if it comes down to it, I'll tell her to do a better version of what we already have? 

Thoughts?


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## Pipp (Mar 8, 2008)

oh and be sure to open the threads to see what it looks like down a level or two... 

http://wowclassicbb.com/test/view_topic.php?id=1&forum_id=1


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## JadeIcing (Mar 8, 2008)

I dont like it. :grumpy:


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## JadeIcing (Mar 8, 2008)

To girly. :biggrin2:


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 8, 2008)

That was one of stephanie's in that banner thread you posted.


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 8, 2008)

I think that a better version of this is nice.... it would be easier for people to adjust.

That's why I like that one that somebunny did. If she could tweak that.... maybe we could put the "features" on either side of something like that in the center?

I like clean - neat and balanced. I think it looks more professional


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## Haley (Mar 8, 2008)

I like the layout but HATE the colors and the banner. I personally like the color scheme we have now. I think blues and greens are more gender neutral and not so girly/childish. 

I also would like to have a banner like Stephmarie's valentine/adopt a rabbit one we had last time. The one on that sample doesnt stand out at all.


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## JadeIcing (Mar 8, 2008)

*Haley wrote: *


> I like the layout but HATE the colors and the banner. I personally like the color scheme we have now. I think blues and greens are more gender neutral and not so girly/childish.
> 
> I also would like to have a banner like Stephmarie's valentine/adopt a rabbit one we had last time. The one on that sample doesnt stand out at all.


I agree!


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## Pipp (Mar 8, 2008)

Keep in mind that the side-box layout is standard with the new software, so regardless we'll have that. 

We're looking at a (possible) newlogo design (bought and paid forbefore Stephanie came up with what we have now), color scheme,icons and borders. 

I can't find a copy of Stephanie's rescue banner, love to show that to Nancy though.


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## bunnydude (Mar 8, 2008)

I really like the layout. However the color scheme is pretty gnarly. A textured background is a nice touch, but I think it should be more subdued color-wise. Bold colors make much more sense on the title bars and borders.

By the way, I think the "report post" buttons and added statistics are great additions.


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## Haley (Mar 8, 2008)

*Pipp wrote: *


> I can't find a copy of Stephanie's rescue banner, love to show that to Nancy though.



Here ya go. I love this one, but Im biased She just did such a great job.


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## Pipp (Mar 8, 2008)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> To girly. :biggrin2:



Yeah, guess my instructions on that didn't fit in -- I used 'babyish', should have used 'girlish', good word. 

_It's tough finding something that isn't too babyish (we're a forum about rabbit health and welfare, family friendly, but we deal with a lot of medical issues,can't be too cutesy while posting necropsy photos of dead rabbits in the posts), but we still want to bewarm and fuzzy -- lke bunnies._


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 8, 2008)

I love pink LOL! So girly is great for me! 

I love that banner Haley. It's perfect! Zeus LOL! I love his ear in that - he should be on our new banner!


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## Pipp (Mar 8, 2008)

*Haley wrote: *


>



Ya!! My favourite too! Without the hearts, it should be the standard -- although we are going to have a problem branding the '.net' bit, seeing as somebody is making a site just like ours (pet and breeder friendly, same info, etc) at rabbits-online.com, and that's going to be a problem). 

My second fav is Becky's I think, if it was done a touch more professionally with the cutouts, etc...


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## Pipp (Mar 8, 2008)

PS: I love the carrots, but they ARE orange.  (I really hate orange -- evenPaypal's newdonation button bugs me!)


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## bunnydude (Mar 8, 2008)

> although we are going to have a problem branding the '.net' bit, seeing as somebody is making a site just like ours (pet and breeder friendly, same info, etc) at rabbits-online.com, and that's going to be a problem).



There's also a rabbitsonline.org. Maybe the banner should have ".net" highlighted somehow (a different color, a different font, bolded, italicized, etc.). That could easily be added to Stephanie's banner, which is my favorite as well.

The problem with the banner at the example site is that the rabbit pictures are muted. Plus, I think having cut-outs of the rabbits looks more professional.


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## Pipp (Mar 8, 2008)

Hey Matt, it was yours and MBB's banner that you did for RO way back when that inspired it, I'll take that one over the new one.  

And for the record, here's what she originally showed me -- and I told her to lose the purple and try the textured background. But I think it got worse. (Which I didn't think was possible). :biggrin2:


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## bunnydude (Mar 8, 2008)

Like you said, a meadow theme would look really nice. What she's put together (both the first and second iterations) looks too "Easter-y", if that makes any sense.


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## tundrakatiebean (Mar 8, 2008)

*Haley wrote: *


> I like the layout but HATE the colors and the banner. I personally like the color scheme we have now. I think blues and greens are more gender neutral and not so girly/childish.
> 
> I also would like to have a banner like Stephmarie's valentine/adopt a rabbit one we had last time. The one on that sample doesnt stand out at all.



my opinion exactly!

I absolutely HATE that color...it's one of those things that is just embeded in my brain as "frou-frou" :yucknot my taste.


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## TinysMom (Mar 8, 2008)

I think that one of the things I love the most about the site - is our banner. I don't like the individual pictures across the top of the page. Somehow, sometimes I feel like our lives and our bunnies merge together (even if they never meet in real life) and the idea of how they're put together in the banners just really "speaks" to me. I can see individual pictures in blogs.

Just my .02 about that.

I don't really care for what she's done as far as colors go. I like our current colors (I don't know what my current setting is - but I love it). 

I really don't have a lot more to say. I'm sorry - I just don't really focus that much on the look of the forum - except for the banner....that I do love.

Peg


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## Leaf (Mar 9, 2008)

I like the colors. Most of the forum I'm on are done in blues/neutrals and it gets.. redundant.



No offence, I'm here, right?!


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## Pipp (Mar 9, 2008)

I think I might like this font, the more I look at it. In another colour -- maybe a greens/blues thingor green/green thing... without the possessive rabbits of course.  But it will look good as one word with the .net on the end. 

Maybe not as good as Stephies, though, I'd have to see it in action.


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## stephiemarie78 (Mar 9, 2008)

I have nothing good to say about that. YIKES the icons are quite boring was hoping for something more bunnish


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## Pipp (Mar 9, 2008)

LOL! Well there's a bit of good news there, she hasn't added the icons yet, those are just place holders. 

(Are ya feelin' the:heartsin this thread Stephie?)


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## stephiemarie78 (Mar 9, 2008)

yea and after the day I've had its nice. I'm officially in Tampa now living in my sister's living room :? not quite sure how I'm feeling at the moment but i don't like the colors at all.


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## Pipp (Mar 9, 2008)

*stephiemarie78 wrote: *


> yea and after the day I've had its nice. I'm officially in Tampa now living in my sister's living room :? not quite sure how I'm feeling at the moment but i don't like the colors at all.



Had some 'move' q's, but moved them to a new thread in VIP Chat.  

And yeah, not sure how many times I mentioned using the same color scheme, and that was most decidedly NOT. 

I washopingthat she'dtake what's here and strengthen it up with a nicer background, borders, some stronger lettering ... or something.

But when I saw the purple and the logo... :scared:

Then thepeach and the pink.. :yuck (Part of that was my idea mind you) :baghead

At one point I was wondering if it would work having the whole outside background with a faded collage like she did for the logo (still trying to fit in as many bunnies as possible), if it didn't look too busy, might work. 

But I never meantthelogo. I always mentioned that I liked the style of ourcurrent banners. 

Will be interesting to see what she does for icons. onder: Or not.


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## Pipp (Mar 9, 2008)

*Leaf wrote: *


> I like the colors. Most of the forum I'm on are done in blues/neutrals and it gets.. redundant.
> 
> No offence, I'm here, right?!



Yeah, needs something in addition to the blues/greens (although I don't see a lot of blue/green/pink combos out there) to make it stronger. 

And why would anybody take offense after offering a solicited opinions? (It didn't say, "Tell me what you think but only if you agree with me." Which you kinda do anyway).


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## JadeIcing (Mar 9, 2008)

:shock::vomit:


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## Pipp (Mar 9, 2008)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> :shock::vomit:



Uh... translation? Specifics even?


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## JadeIcing (Mar 9, 2008)

I do not like purple much. It is rare for me to find a shade I like. The pink is just wow. To much. Partly cause of the fact we have men on here and also because it looks like diluted pepto bismal (SP?).

I don't mind texture, not one of my fave things but it is not horrible either.


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## Pipp (Mar 9, 2008)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> I do not like purple much. It is rare for me to find a shade I like. The pink is just wow. To much. Partly cause of the fact we have men on here and also because it looks like diluted pepto bismal (SP?).
> 
> I don't mind texture, not one of my fave things but it is not horrible either.



LOL! I'll never be able to look at it again without thinking pepto bismol (and thus nausea). 

How about a little pink around the edges?  I've asked her for stronger colours and maybe a bit more pinkonthe main pageto offset the predominent greens (and not THAT green, yuck) and blues. 

I always have to see it to know if it will work or not, so some requests might be pretty gnarly. But I tried leaving it all up to her, and we got the purple. :shock:

And then the Miami Vice-gone-bad interpretation. So...Who knows what will happen next!


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## JadeIcing (Mar 9, 2008)

*Pipp wrote: *


> *JadeIcing wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I do not like purple much. It is rare for me to find a shade I like. The pink is just wow. To much. Partly cause of the fact we have men on here and also because it looks like diluted pepto bismal (SP?).
> ...


I like the sounds of that. Alittle pink is ok. But stronger colors...I see neon now.


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## pamnock (Mar 9, 2008)

Keep in mind that the colors/textures may be too hard on the eyes, especially when looking at it for a long time.

I literally got sick to my stomach from the short time I viewed the samples. If the board is too color heavy, I can't use it without getting ill/headache/nauseous and have a hard time focusing. I think that people who suffer from vertigo as well as eye problems would have trouble viewing the board. 

Please keep it simple for the sake of us older folk - black letters on light backgrounds.



Pam


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## Pipp (Mar 9, 2008)

I've asked her to leave the backgrounds (like in this post)the same or similar. What I meant by strong colours was just the deeper greens and blues we already have on the logo, borders, etc, not the pastel green she came up with, sorry, bad wording. 

Maybe a 'strong design' is a better word. I agree with Leaf about this one being a bit wimpy and generic. A lot of blah. But I like the choice of colours. (I picked 'em!) 

s


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## stephiemarie78 (Mar 9, 2008)

I think we should stick with green and just add some other colors to it. I personally like a white boring backgrounds.


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 9, 2008)

Pipp I really love that post color.

Completely OT - but an outlaw of mine used to have rooms that were LITERALLY that pepto color and they had gray furniture.

THe minute I walked in that room I got sick to my stomach - and it was 2 tiny rooms at the front of this old farm house... Livingroom and a piano room.

OMG horrid.


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## SOOOSKA (Mar 9, 2008)

I love purple and pink so I'm no help. LOL

Susan


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## polly (Mar 9, 2008)

I think if you were on for a long time any bright or vivid colour would get to be to much. A lot of the other forums i go n were brighter but have toned it down. I like the colours on here they are light and easy to see. don't annoy my eyes to much when i get a headache either!!

The orangey colour is disgusting not keen on the pink purple either though at least it was more pastelly!!


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 9, 2008)

Yeah, I like the seafoam green because it's easier on the eyes.

I love pink but I can live with whatever you all pick. I'm no help either I guess LOL!


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## Pipp (Mar 9, 2008)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> Yeah, I like the seafoam green because it's easier on the eyes.



LOL! I'd be more inclined to agreeif this was a dolphin forum. :biggrin2:

But hey, bunnies! Meadows, blueskies, pink noses... I just can't shake that. 

We'll see what she comes up with.


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## Pipp (Mar 9, 2008)

She's working on it again.

http://wowclassicbb.com/test/ 

May change by the time I post this... but so far so good. (I'd still rather have a grassier green).


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## stephiemarie78 (Mar 9, 2008)

i agree i think she should stick with more classic colors. i don't like the colors she is using althought the background is much better


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## slavetoabunny (Mar 9, 2008)

This is A LOT better, but still too much pink for my taste. But remember, that is just my taste. In could live with this one.


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## Haley (Mar 9, 2008)

I agree with Patti- I like this one better, but still too much pink. I think Id ditch the pink altogether if it were me. If we're sticking with a meadow theme then it should be more greens. 

I personally love the colors we have now


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## Pipp (Mar 9, 2008)

I think that once the pink is out of the logo and off the banner, it will be at lot less overt.  I quite like it, but like you, in lesser amounts. 

I agree with Stephie about a more traditional green, anyway. I kinda like the blue.


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Mar 9, 2008)

I am not crazy about the blue and green together. I am ok with thet pink though, and i am not a fan of pink,lol.


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## stephiemarie78 (Mar 9, 2008)

its the same blue we have now........ did u notice


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## stephiemarie78 (Mar 9, 2008)

What about colors like this?


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## BlueGiants (Mar 9, 2008)

Ohhhh! I like those colors! (The pink is a bit much for me. It almost vibrates when I'm looking at the page... (not as bad as the "orange" did, though!)


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## Pipp (Mar 9, 2008)

Luvmyzoocrew* wrote: *


> I am not crazy about the blue and green together.




I really love shades of blue and green together, sorry! Maybe a bit more green and a little less blue in this case, though, we'll have to see. 

Stephie, I think we need stronger colours, but not that strong!! (My kitchen is wine and teal, though, love it!)

Cathy, the colours on the test site or the coloursStephie posted? I assume the test site? The 'orange' almost vibrated me off the computer! 

I think with the grass greens added in and the lettering and bannerchanged, it should make a big difference. 

Stephie, do you know ifthe top section where the logos/banners gocan be a different background (like the one used in the posts) or does it have to be the pink with the logo background laid over top of it?


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Mar 9, 2008)

*stephiemarie78 wrote: *


> its the same blue we have now........ did u notice


I just dont like them together, not the individual colors themselves, i think that together is not pleasing to the eyes it plays tricks , sort of , on my eyes.


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 9, 2008)

too many colors


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## Pipp (Mar 9, 2008)

She's messing with it.  

I've sent her a note asking her to put it back the way it was when I first posted but to tryit with a grass/meadow green. 

She's been adding more pastels and even yucky yellowish stuff. :yuck

I didn't take a screen shot before the fiddling, I hope she can get it back.


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 9, 2008)

I agree LOL! 

I was playing with colors before and I Really liked the greens, the pale blues and of course the passive colors like gray and black.


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## Pipp (Mar 10, 2008)

Hey Stephie, if you're around, check out the test site, she's changing the borders. 

I kinda like the blue/green border combo? Whaddya think?


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## stephiemarie78 (Mar 10, 2008)

its not bad pretty much same colors we have now


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## Pipp (Mar 10, 2008)

Yup! I've always asked for similar if not the same colors from anybody doing banners, etc, it's a 'branding' thing, part of my PR training. (Oh wait! I was self taught, I guess I trained myself!)

s


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## HoneyPot (Mar 10, 2008)

Ok, first I'm going to quality this by saying I have 7 years of art training and I am doing a diploma in interior design and my last class was called "Color". That being said - the yellow and salmon colors on that sample are horrendous. 

I can explain why - there's a reason it's so bleh to look at and it has to do with the color wheel and intensity of colors...

For it to look good, I suggest sticking with the blue and green and adding ONE other color as maybe an accent, but using shades of the blue and green for almost everything. 

Also, the shades of blue and green would work out better together if the green was more toward blue (as opposed to yellow) and the blue was more toward green (as opposed to red).

Ok, easier to show than explain...






So what I did was stick to the aqua/green theme where the green is leaning more toward blue so the colors don't clash. Then an accent color... that also doesn't clash, so something that has blue in it... purples .. or reds that are more toward burgundy/purple than orange. Orange or anything with yellow in it that's really intense (ie salmon and that sunshine yellow) willvibrate off the pageand be puky with the blues and greens unless you start making your greens have more yellow in it or tone the color way down so that it's a neutral.

Also, it's an intensity thing right - you have to mix up the darks with the light or everyone will get a headache. 

Anyway now I'm babbling, don't know if any of that made sense... just my 50cents. 


Edit: I forgot to add that I really like the layout with the sidebar by the way - will be nice to have the stats and things easily viewable. 


Nad


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## Pipp (Mar 10, 2008)

YAY NADIA!! 

You nailed it. 

I was trying to explain that to Nancy, but I had no idea what I was talking about.  I knew what worked (after days and days of messing around), but no clue why or how to articulate it.  

I did initially ask her to stick with shades of green/blues/teales with a touch of pink, and maybe the pink(ish) backgroundif it was understatedenough in effect (I have noidea how these things are going to look). 

Then I really confused her (and myself and everybody else)by saying the inspiration wasgreen grass, blue sky and pink bunny noses.  So we got off on the 'grass' green. 

Butno, from your explanation, it will be the bluish greens and teales and the not-so-pink pinks that will do the trick.  

You're too awesome! 

(Nancy may kill me tho) :shock:



s :biggrin2:


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## Haley (Mar 10, 2008)

Awesome Nadia! I wish we could just pay you to design the site lol :biggrin2:

I like all the colorsin your examples (except the ones with the reds). Great job!


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## Pipp (Mar 10, 2008)

For the record, thesewere the greens I suggested she use, not sure why she didn't.













Now the trick is to keep it 'meadow-ish' and not too ocean-ish. 

(I honestly like the colors we have, even though I didn't know how to change the border and the areas around the buttons, but still works for me. :biggrin2:Just didn't know how much I liked them until Nadia laid it out on paper).


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 10, 2008)

I really like that bottom left hand tile of colors (with the light purpley grayish color)

Nadia - you rock! I knew we had to have someone in artistic design here! YAY!


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## HoneyPot (Mar 10, 2008)

meadows and bunnies, and less ocean.... maybe move from green blue toward green yellow? But then we might risk looking like a Sprite commercial...


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## Pipp (Mar 10, 2008)

yeah, you read my mind. I actually hate those colours, but the green/yellow may work better, we'll have to see. (Right now, I think a lot will depend on the logo placement, I need to see what that looks like).

But the inside colors are leaning to green/yellow withbit of blue and the pink, and it actually looks okay. It does have to go one way or the other, though. I know she's not anywhere near finished, probably just experimenting, but right now it's all over the map.


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## Haley (Mar 10, 2008)

I really like those greens, but the pink has to go- it really clashes. Is she still working on that part? Something like the light background we have now with the greens in the banner would be awesome.


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Mar 10, 2008)

*Haley wrote: *


> I really like those greens, but the pink has to go- it really clashes.






:yeahthat:


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## stephiemarie78 (Mar 10, 2008)

i love the color samples from nadia!!! it really is so much easier atleast for me when u know what colors to work with! then u have a place to start.


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## BlueGiants (Mar 10, 2008)

*Haley wrote: *


> I really like those greens, but the pink has to go- it really clashes.




Really do NOT like the pink... :vomit:


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 10, 2008)

*Luvmyzoocrew wrote: *


> *Haley wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I really like those greens, but the pink has to go- it really clashes.
> ...


:vomit:


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Mar 10, 2008)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> :vomit:


EEWWW you just threw up on me!!!!! :biggrin2:


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 10, 2008)

Sorry, It was that color. I was just backing you up and then threw up on you.....


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## Pipp (Mar 10, 2008)

It's hard to visualize without the real logos, etc, up there, and my computer and software won't let me fiddle much at all, but here's an INCREDIBLY ROUGH idea of what it might look like with other banners... 







The pink won't be as overstated.. 

PS: I couldn't change the shade of pink or otherwise fiddle with the blue/greens...


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 10, 2008)

That's pretty nice looking. I like the colors but I think the pink needs to be paler like you say it will.


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## pamnock (Mar 11, 2008)

I have to say it because you have asked for our opinions- it's horrid . . .:vomit:

I think that combination of colors is terrible. What's wrong with the current colors?





Pam


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## Haley (Mar 11, 2008)

I know Ive said this a million times but the pink doesnt go with that scheme. It needs to be in the pallet of the greens/blues/purple or just whitish like we have it now. 

Maybe its me but the pink looks soo bad with those other colors.

I love the banner though with those colors!


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## Pipp (Mar 11, 2008)

LOL! Yeah, I didn't know how to change it to the Nadia pink/purple to see if that would work. (I have my doubts about that, too). 

And Nancy says she based it on our current colours and even used a colour picker, so she's at a loss.  

I really would like to stick withthe blue/gray/green/teale/turquoise maybe with some with pink and grass green highlights. 

I was hoping the pink stuck in the background would act as a highlight and not a predominent, but NOT. :shock:

The other thing I want to try is her original collage idea but not as a banner, as a transparent background with the boxes and logo on top, blocking most of it, but not all of it. 

Seeing as there's an upgrade, might as well reload the software onto the new server and I'll try fiddling for some examples, tho somebody's going to have to tell me how to do the main background (wher ethe pink is now) and the main border.

Stephie? Stephanie?? You around to load the software?


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## Pipp (Mar 11, 2008)

PS: Keep in mind we can have more than one theme! We have have one with a solid color if some people would rather look at that.


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## stephiemarie78 (Mar 11, 2008)

its the pink that i don't like as of right now


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## HoneyPot (Mar 11, 2008)

hmm, I was thinking the greyed out rose/purple color as a desperate measure if we HAD to include another color besides greens and blues, I definitely don't think it should be the background color as that will be the main color everyone sees (and purples/pinks cause too much different reactions from people in general - some hate it some love it). 

The backgroundI would make the lightest, palest neutral color possible. Let the background dissapear... into the background.  Kinda like how it is on this site - you don't even notice the background is there....


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## Pipp (Mar 11, 2008)

The background colour is only visible around the edges or the main page, really. The boxes, all the text bgs, etc, are separate. That's the only place it appears, isn't it? 

The way Nancy had it, with the boxes a different colour, looked more stated, and to me, more interferring. 

I think the current design needs a hint of solid colour somewhere. I just see all the spam pages that throw up apick of a rabbit and a bunch of text and pretend to be a website, it bugs me. 

If not a bit of background colour, then the logo will have to be a lot more overt IMO. Right now we're just a touch ... wimpy.


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## Pipp (Mar 11, 2008)

PS: I don't mean a solid BRIGHT colour, I think as you said a very pale greyish pinkish one would work, but I would like to see what it does in the background.


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 11, 2008)

I just realized we have a like.... background on here. 

Something I learned when I used to mount and mat cross-stitch I made -

The best border is a color that is already in your scheme but only used a tiny bit but doesn't take over the picture....... 

So that's why this little scratchy gray background works so well here.

If we used the teal above the emoticons it would take over....... 

So - we need to find a very very pale color in that scheme


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 11, 2008)

Well, I played around in paint with that theme and I kinda like this (look at the right side of the border)but I'd like to see it in full color - I don't have the patience to erase and color it all. 

Could you copy it to this or even a tad lighter?




View attachment nancyinsidecolours2.gif


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## Pipp (Mar 11, 2008)




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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 11, 2008)

PIPP I absolutely LOVE that last one! Enough blue to make it Pop but not too much to make us Puke!


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## Haley (Mar 11, 2008)

Those three look nice. I think I like the first one the best. We're getting there


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## BlueGiants (Mar 11, 2008)

I agree, the last one is MUCH better! The hint of blue is not over powering yet it is enough to make the Forum boxes pop out.


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## Pipp (Mar 11, 2008)

how about solid blue and a touch of pink?

PS: I made the banners smaller just to see how bad it would be if a lot of blue was showing. (Personally, I think if it was just a tad lighter, I'd like this one, but I'm still fiddling).


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 11, 2008)

Nope, too busy I think.

The separation is good to a point, but then I think it makes it look like a photo album.

I really like that first and last on those ones you did above.


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## BlueGiants (Mar 11, 2008)

Nope, still like the last version with the light blue background. (Is it textured?) No pink! No Salmon! No Orange! (Too distracting, and bunny noses really aren't pink anyway!)

Tone down the turquoise blue to teal or something closer to the greens. I liked it with less seperation between the banners.


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## Pipp (Mar 11, 2008)

Yeah, the darker blue is too much. 

Don't get insulted when everybody's advice isn't followed, btw... Case in point, we'll have little control over separation between banners because they'll always be rotating, some are bigger, some are littler and some are different shapes. 

I only did it this way to test the 'overwhelming' factor on a darker colour.It's also possible we won't even have the two upper cornerbanners, soyou can't really judge face value. 

(And there WILL be a touch of pink -- just like the current forum). There has to be something a little unique, back to the 'brand recognition' thing. 

I call the first one the bathroom background... but I kinda like it.  Or maybe a lighter blue, we'll have to see how that goes. 

I actually liked the little cartoon bunny we have now (a touch of pink, too)  rather than a bunny pic in the button, but maybe somebody will come up with a third option.

Keep in mind I"m just working with Paint.net (which I've never used before), a screen captured image,and a really obstinate mouse and keyboard, I really can't do much in terms ofa 'final product'. 

I don'treally like the extralight green in the center of the border, btw.Going to try puttingsomethingelse in there. That may bewhy it's appearing to be too busy. 

(PS:When I first 'fiddled' with the current forum, nobody really liked it much,either).


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 11, 2008)

I like the little cartoon bunny too. I like real bunnies, but not in those small icon like things.


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## BlueGiants (Mar 11, 2008)

Not insulted Pipp! Not at all! LOL! You asked for opinions... (didn't some one once say be careful what you ask for... you might get it?) Nuthin' personal... you have to go with what works best. (I just hate pink as much as you hate purple! ROFLMAO!)


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 11, 2008)

I LOVE pink - I just don't think it works for Rabbitsonline.

I really love that bottom of those three tho. I think it has a really nice, calm, and friendly look.

So, if we can get somewhere around that..... I'd like it. I also think that with a mild pattern like it has - it's easy on the eyes even when the space between items is a bit bigger.


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## pamnock (Mar 11, 2008)

*Pipp wrote: *


> how about solid blue and a touch of pink?
> 
> PS: I made the banners smaller just to see how bad it would be if a lot of blue was showing. (Personally, I think if it was just a tad lighter, I'd like this one, but I'm still fiddling).



I think this one is pretty good, but I'd go lighter on the blue background and lighter on the green headings so you don't have dark font against a dark background.

The pink is hideous, I think you should add the pink/salmon signature color on the donation button like it is now.

Pam


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 11, 2008)

That's orange on my screen, pam. The button for make a donation?


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## Pipp (Mar 11, 2008)

Just for you guys,I'll be making it just a TINY touch of pink). 

(And Pam, I'd LOVE to replace that orange,now THAT is hideous!!) 

Don't worry about me getting insulted, I definitely want opinions, just can't follow all of them. (And I am big on something unique, even if it's a wee bitobnoxious -- but just a WEE bit).

Biggest problem I've got right nowis that I have no idea how the colour changer works! And I really don't want to be colouring this stuff by hand. OnceIfigure it out, I won't be inclined to say, 'screw it, good enough to see what a shorter banner and darker colour would look like'. Ergothe darker blue and yes, that pink.

And I'm sure the real designers will step in with the real thing, or I'll actually get access to the software and fiddle with the real thing. 

I'mstill trying toget the Royal border mocked up to see whatTHAT will look like, although totally beyond my skills. Ditto with seeing if a transparentphoto background will work). 

We may be able to run a white strip right across the top, btw, so that will lessen the overtness of the background and/or images.

(And guys, just remember the firstpink, purple and greendesign, that shouldmake these ones look better!) :biggrin2:


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## pamnock (Mar 11, 2008)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> That's orange on my screen, pam. The button for make a donation?



Oh yes - tangerine - very pretty 

Pam


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 11, 2008)

I like orange....... On Tony Stewarts Car.

Otherwise.... ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Yes, Pipp..... definitely better than easter egg on crack colors!


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Mar 11, 2008)

*Pipp wrote: *


>


I like the back ground on these very much, but now, and i know you want to do this :boxingto me , but with the lighter back ground "I" think the green is too dark. I like the green if the rest of the colors where more complimentry to it. just my :twocents


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## Pipp (Mar 11, 2008)

Now this is REALLY rough... had to cut n' paste from another forum, string a couple together to make it long enough, etc, but I must say I love the Royal banner on here.  

And yes, the bg blue is still too dark and/or too blue, but that will have to wait. 

(And Luv, I agree re: the green!)


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## TinysMom (Mar 11, 2008)

*Pipp wrote: *


>


I like this one the best...

Peg


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## bunnydude (Mar 11, 2008)

I agree with Peg, much better without that pink!


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## JadeIcing (Mar 11, 2008)

Ditto.


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## Haley (Mar 11, 2008)

Ditto from me, I like this:






Did you lighten the green a little? It looks a little more subdued.


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## Pipp (Mar 12, 2008)

Haley, I covered the green with the awesomely cool (IMO) 'Royal' borderdesign and that caused the green to be less overt, as I knew it would. Won't know the full effect until I see the whole page. 

And it turns out the same type of glitch that keeps eating the Library posts (related somehow to posting member profile links in proximity to url links) ate half the date in my PMs to the designer, Nancy. She didn't receive any of my links with sample graphics including Nadia's colour pallet, Stephie's banner, or the Royal border suggestion. And half the text was gone. (Of course she didn't know there was anything missing). 

I have now sent her the above sample and asked her to carry on in that mode. The only changes I asked for was a textured blue background, and to lose the marbling in theboxes and forums/posts area.

I still think we have a communication gap, however. 

The end result was... 

this....
















Here's a lower view... 







(That greenwas the colour I called the bathroom style, remember). 
Now, it's pretty. Just not what we want. :sigh: 

I had especiallyliked the blue/green fade in her category or forum separators. (And notice she put a strongerpink back.  Wasn't me!!) 

We can use this design (or one like it) for a second theme for people who like a darker background. 

This isn't all... Not sure if this is actually what she's planning, I'm sneaking peeks before she tells me too look, but this is what's on the inside... 






On the good news side, StephieMarie has been fiddling with the Portal page ... which is going to be an intro homepage to the forum heavily promoting the Library and housing ads for rescues and contests and the like. 

Check it out! 

http://server.holeinthewallhosting.com/~sas/

(This is a very rough idea, no need tocomment on specifics).

s


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## Pipp (Mar 12, 2008)

Posting this again to see what difference our ownalternating post backgound shades makes..


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 12, 2008)

Hmm..... I was scrolling and stopped thinking to myself "oo now which is that - I really like it"....... 

It was Pipp's repost of her colors. The blue one LOL! 

Are we paying this person to do what you are doing Pipp??? :huhCause I really like what you've done so much better....


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Mar 12, 2008)

i really like the green ones Pipp but i am not feeling the purple part of it, it is too light to go with the green i think the purple clashes.


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## stephiemarie78 (Mar 12, 2008)

I like the changes but I'm not a fan of the blue or pink in it doesn't go with the greens. I love the textures too =) if she would just pick colors other then pink an blue i'd be happy.

I'll match the portal page to whatever the end design is!


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## pamnock (Mar 12, 2008)

http://server.holeinthewallhosting.com/~sas/- Wow! I like the emphasis on the library links - great idea!

I think the most recent updates of the colors are still too dark and too hard on the eyes.

Pam


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 12, 2008)

pam, don't hate me!!

I LOVE THAT PAGE!!! I like the subdued darker colors. It's not as bright and I get headaches from the bright pages.

Even a tad lighter would be ok....... I just really love it!


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## Hazel-Mom (Mar 12, 2008)

Ok, so I came into this thread rather late I think.. But why are we changing things?
What's wrong with the forum as it is now?
I do like Sas's "front page" with all the library and info links, though.


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 12, 2008)

We're moving! Everyone likes to redecorate when they move!


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## stephiemarie78 (Mar 12, 2008)

I'm happy with the way the portal page turned out =) i hope you guys like it.


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## bunnydude (Mar 12, 2008)

That portal page is awesome!


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## BlueGiants (Mar 12, 2008)

I like the layout!!! Lots and Lots! (LOL!) Really like the Library Links!! Excellent idea. Color is OK... "Rabbits Online" could be a little bolder. Nice to see all the pictures! (It's good to see lots of bunnies on a bunny forum!)

Baby Blue background is a little too bright (intensity wise). Could be a touch lighter. LOVE the greens, very rich looking.


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## Pipp (Mar 12, 2008)

*pamnock wrote: *


> http://server.holeinthewallhosting.com/~sas/- Wow! I like the emphasis on the library links - great idea!
> 
> I think the most recent updates of the colors are still too dark and too hard on the eyes.


Are you talking about the colours on the Portal page? 

I'm surprised more people don't totally hate Nancy's latest version of the Forum page. :shock: I think we can use it for a second theme if that's the case. 

s


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## stephiemarie78 (Mar 12, 2008)

Well I like parts of what she has done so far but some i don't care for!


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## stephiemarie78 (Mar 12, 2008)

We can always make the changes we want after she's done and its installed.


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## HoneyPot (Mar 12, 2008)

I LOVE the portal page... check out that muted blue background, I almost didn't notice it. 

Show that to Nancy. hehe.

Nad


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## Pipp (Mar 12, 2008)

Okay, I cna't decide... 

solid side boxes... (except I'd rather see them with no texture, just a flat colour)







or white side boxes


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## pamnock (Mar 12, 2008)

*Pipp wrote: *


> *pamnock wrote: *
> 
> 
> > http://server.holeinthewallhosting.com/~sas/- Wow! I like the emphasis on the library links - great idea!
> ...




No - I didn't mean the portal pagecolors.

Bo - I don't hate you - I'll get over it LOL

I am just thrilled to have been able to log on to the forum tonight!

Pam


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## Pipp (Mar 14, 2008)

Not sure if I posted my latest version of this...


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## naturestee (Mar 14, 2008)

I like it!


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## pamnock (Mar 14, 2008)

The headers are hard to read - too dark. You either need to go with white font or, preferably, lighten up thebackground color. Take a look at some pro designs such as the yahoo.com homepage. 

*GET RID OF THOSE DARK COLORS! NOT USER FRIENDLY AND TOO HARD TO READ!* (Yes, I am yelling) 

Pam


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## Pipp (Mar 14, 2008)

:shock: :? What dark colours? There are no colours at all where there is text. 

This isn't the real screen, it's just the shadings, I can't do anything with the fonts or put backgrounds behind them, but that will be done of course, readablity is the most important part.But regardless, that's just the bars. 

I thought you'd be yelling upa storm about the lastsolidgreen and bright blue backgroundsNancy version and nada... 

I'm wondering if you're even seeing what I'm seeing?? 

s :?


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## Pipp (Mar 14, 2008)

PS: I even got rid of the pink bar just for you. :tears2:


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## BlueGiants (Mar 14, 2008)

I think Pam is refering to the dark green bar where it says Forum, Topic, Posts, etc. in black lettering. That is difficult to read. (And thank you for removing the pink...:biggrin2

edited to add: And where the black lettering runs into the dark green shading


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 14, 2008)

If it were my site, it would look like Barbie threw up all over it. I like PINK that much!


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## Pipp (Mar 14, 2008)

I'm basically doing this by colouring in a screen, don't make me colour in all the lettering, just try and imagine it with the light fontor a highlight behind the letters. leaseplease:

I did colour in a few... just for Pam.  And lightened up the top bar considerably. But that's it. Rest is up to the REAL designers.  

But I really took out the pink for Cathy. :biggrin2: (And sorry Bo... but we'll just make surethere's still a touch of pink)  







s


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## Haley (Mar 14, 2008)

Hey sas, why you are doing all this? I thought thats what you paid this woman for? If shes not doing what you want and youre having to do everything yourself maybe she should give you your money back?

It just seems like, as usual, youre having to do all the work


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## pamnock (Mar 14, 2008)

Sweet - can we get a more professional looking bunny without the pink?

Pam


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## Pipp (Mar 14, 2008)

Yup, here's one just for you, Pam. 








:biggrin2:


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## Pipp (Mar 14, 2008)

Oh, and Pam, we also have this appropriate little number ... it's even in your favourite colour -- tangerine!






:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:

Haley, we are using Nancy's bathroom motif as well. We can have as many themes as we want (although three is the easiest to deal with). We'll eventually solve everybody's migraine issues and might even have Barbie throw up on one yet.


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## JadeIcing (Mar 14, 2008)

:laugh:

Barbie throw up.


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## Pipp (Mar 14, 2008)

*pamnock wrote: *


> Sweet - can we get a more professional looking bunny without the pink?


Oh, reminds me... on a serious note, I tried to use your Hotot in a heart drawing, but it pretty much disappeared when it was shrunk down that size, was going to ask if you had anything else.(Preferably with ears). (Perferably pink).  

I also have an idea for the 'read' and 'unread' icons -- the 'unread' being a bunny front, the 'read' a bunny butt.  The forum moves so fast, few forums will have read threads, so won't be used as much. 

s


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 14, 2008)

*pamnock wrote: *


> Sweet - can we get a more professional looking bunny without the pink?
> 
> Pam



:X

Quit dissin' da pink!


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## BlueGiants (Mar 14, 2008)

*Pipp wrote: *


>



Ummm... I really like this one Pipp... :biggrin2: And the "Not listening"....

(I'm still laughing over the Barbie throw up!!!!!!)


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## slavetoabunny (Mar 14, 2008)

*Pipp wrote: *


> Okay, I cna't decide...
> 
> solid side boxes... (except I'd rather see them with no texture, just a flat colour)
> 
> ...



I haven't followed this page because (1) I can't view pictures/images at work due to an entirely unfair firewall;and (2) I spend all my time at home on zootoo right now.

I was stressing with zootoo and decided to calm down by cruising a few random posts. Little did I know that I would see my Scooter's face on the opening page!!!!! Thank you for making me smile.


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## pamnock (Mar 14, 2008)

I think the white looks nice.

Pam


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## pamnock (Mar 15, 2008)

*Pipp wrote: *


> *pamnock wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Sweet - can we get a more professional looking bunny without the pink?
> ...



You can look on my site and see if there's anything you like http://www.geocities.com/pamnock/

I'll see how far I can shrink down the hotot in a heart.

Pam


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## pamnock (Mar 15, 2008)

It doesn't show up well with the white background - maybe try experimenting with some different background colors? I think it's really too detailed to use for small stuff.

Pam


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 15, 2008)

There's pink in those flowers!!! :biggrin2:


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## Pipp (Mar 15, 2008)

*pamnock wrote: *


> ...maybe try experimenting with some different background colors?


You're really out to get me, aren't you? :stikpoke

The otherproblem is your rabbit ain't got no ears.  We may understand 'Hotot', but newbiessigning on may ask whya rabbit site is using a prairie dogfor an icon. :huh

I'll keep looking. (I checked your site before, but I'll check it again, thanks). 

s :laughsmiley:


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## Pipp (Mar 16, 2008)

here's a few other sites as samples... 

http://aurorawheelers.com/ (portal page)

http://www.ztunlimitedforums.com/ (use of WowUltra subforums sample)

http://www.dallasdigestforum.com/ (I love this border colour)

PS: I'm not putting them here for anyreason, just needed a place to stash them in case we want to look at them again, so why not in this thread.  



s


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 17, 2008)

I don't know if it's what we want but I wanted to at least share this first one - I love how they colored the photos on the banner

http://www.equinepost.com/community/forum/


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## AngelnSnuffy (Mar 17, 2008)

Compared to this forum, which I love the layout of, I just want to say that I really like the last two in your last post sas. Just my :twocents.


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## Pipp (Mar 18, 2008)

I think this is final... (too tired to deal with it anymore)... although not sure anybody can actually produce it as a forum theme.Guess we'll find out. :?

The background needs to be textured, it may look too dark until it is.

There isn't any text on the forum barsyet. 

And the banner of course isn't right at all, I had to throw a couple of rabbits on the end to fill the space to see the balance (I don't know how to do cut-outs yet), and I also had to add '.Net to the font without a copy of the font, so it's just a cut n' paste hack (including just blowing up a small 'n', no cap around).


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## tundrakatiebean (Mar 18, 2008)

I like it Sas, it looks nice


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## Pipp (Mar 18, 2008)

PS: This is just the page you see when you login, the inside pages of posts are much lighter. 

(Thanks Katie!)

s


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## timetowaste (Mar 18, 2008)

The banner needs more lop eared bunnies...hmmm...where can we find another one?....(NEMONEMONEMONEMONEMONEMONEMONEMONEMO!)

Haha just kidding. Kinda .

Sas, the gist of the page looks great! Can't wait to see if they can actually make this be our front page. Are we switching URL's as well??

Tracy


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## Haley (Mar 18, 2008)

Looks cool to me (especially if the background will appear a little lighter when its finished). Good work!

Maybe once steph has some time she can put some more sponsor bunnies in that logo at the top. It looks so nice to see all those beautiful bunnies!


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## bunnydude (Mar 18, 2008)

Looks great!


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## Pipp (Mar 18, 2008)

Whoops, guess it's not the final... apparently Nancy did another oneworking from the design I gave her earlier, oh well... 

It'll work.  I'll try and find somebody who knows how to put themes up to do the above later. 

Still have to figure out logos for this one, really need it to say rabbitsonline.NET. (Stephie is off for a couple of weeks).


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## bunnydude (Mar 18, 2008)

I'm off tomorrow for Easter break, so I could try to adjust Stephie's banner to say ".net". I'm not 100% sure if it'll work well since the words on the banner already overlap some of the rabbit pics.

But if you want, I'll certainly give it a shot.

The version Nancy did is close enough to what you had that you could certainly use it in the interim.


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## pamnock (Mar 18, 2008)

This one is really great and so pleasant to look at


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## Bo B Bunny (Mar 19, 2008)

I agree. It's nice.

Plus, we can always tweak after the move and after we get it all together, right?


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## stephiemarie78 (Mar 19, 2008)

i am home today just gotta run my sister to work if u need me to do something i can. i need a distraction :biggrin2:


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## stephiemarie78 (Mar 19, 2008)

want me to add more bunnies to that banner and add .net to it? i still have it and it would be easy to fix


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## Pipp (Mar 20, 2008)

Rats!! Missed the 'distraction' window! :biggrin2:

So glad things are looking up.  

I was supposed to get Nancy morebanner *bunnies*, but if you can still do that, that would be awesome! 

If would be nice to have two sizes for the banner maybe? One that fits across the page and one that leaves room for a little box ad? (Or there can be a banner across the whole length and smaller boxes underneath, haven't thought that one through yet). 

And if the .net can be added and either the size or thickness bumped up a bit (or the color or something that will make it stand out a bit more), that would be even more awesome.  

s :big kiss:


eta bunnies!


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## stephiemarie78 (Mar 20, 2008)

Yup i'll mess with it some tommorow and add more bunnies


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## ~Bracon~ (Mar 22, 2008)

*I love the last idea, it looks a lot cleaner if you no what I meenAnd whites a colour that everyone can agree with, besides I always *[ame=http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=associate&spell=1]associate[/ame]*ro with green and white*


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## Pipp (Mar 23, 2008)

This is the bottom of the forum page... 






Should we keep theTop Five posters box? I think we're going toloose the Member Stats and probably the Welcome to all the new members. 

I think there's also a side box with the day's birthdays? And we also have to squeeze in the 'Who's Chatting'... hmmm...


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## tundrakatiebean (Mar 23, 2008)

*Pipp wrote: *


> And we also have to squeeze in the 'Who's Chatting'... hmmm...



What if you just made the online names a different color if they were chatting? or have a division in the same box. like:

Online: me, you, other Chatting: mom, random

That wayone of the boxes can fit two purposes.


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## Michaela (Mar 23, 2008)

I like the top 5 posters.  Is that overall, or just for the day? Only thing I would worry about is people making short, pointless posts just to bump up their post count to get on there. There are ways to combat that though, post count not increasing for games threads, etc, if the software allows that. 

I like the other boxes too though, don't see any harm in them, it's not like they are stuck at the top in the way or anything. The birthdays thing will be nice too.  And Katie's idea is good, if the software can do that.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Mar 23, 2008)

Katie, that is a great suggestion, IF that can be supported.


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## ~Bracon~ (Mar 25, 2008)

Thats a really good idea katie, and I agree with michaela about the pointless posts.. I duno maybe insted of having top posters you could have post of the day or week? 

EDIT TO POST: Also, I think the simpler the background and colours are the better it will look, you dont want to have really bright backgrounds

Hope some of that made sence:?


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## timetowaste (Apr 4, 2008)

its been more than a week what's the dizzle my nizzles?! :dude:

:bump

Tracy


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