# What breed is Pepper?



## funnybunnymummy (Oct 25, 2013)

I don't have an exact age and weight on her, but the rescue said she was two and 5 to 6 lbs.

We think she's a Mini Lop cross (too big to be a Holland; too small to be a French.) Any guesses as to with what?

















Thanks!

Rue


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## zombiesue (Oct 26, 2013)

Couldn't she just be a large mini** (oops, originally said holand)? ARBA lists maximum weight as 6.5 pounds, which she is within  And can you tell if she's fat? I don't have a very good eye for that sort of thing, but when I got my bun from a shelter (some kind of standard rex mutt) he was a very porky 10 pounds. Way too fat. Or is it other factors that make you think she's mixed with something else, like body type?

Just thought I'd throw that out there because I'm curious. I know other people would be more help lol.


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## funnybunnymummy (Oct 26, 2013)

To me, her body looks all mini lop, but her head and face are wrong. The mini lops I've seen have a wide forehead and blunt nose, whereas her face actually reminds me more of the delicate face of a mini rex. Plus she's got the helicopter ears which is generally a sign she's a cross. (Though I know some minis have helicopter ears). 

I admit, though, I'm no breeder. 

Thanks!

Rue


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## laus (Oct 26, 2013)

I would say she looks like a dwarf lop cross with a French lop.


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Oct 26, 2013)

funnybunnymummy said:


> To me, her body looks all mini lop, but her head and face are wrong. The mini lops I've seen have a wide forehead and blunt nose, whereas her face actually reminds me more of the delicate face of a mini rex. Plus she's got the helicopter ears which is generally a sign she's a cross. (Though I know some minis have helicopter ears).
> 
> I admit, though, I'm no breeder.
> 
> ...



You're right, she appears to be a Mini Lop (in size and type) but not so much by head/ear.

The thing to keep in mind is that the rabbits you see in the Standard of Perfection or on the show table will likely look much different than rabbits you might see from a pet breeder, pet store, or rescue. These rabbits are often not from show or breeding quality stock and aren't held to the same standard.

I would go with Mini Lop. She may be mixed with something, but that's not real obvious from the photos.


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## Nancy McClelland (Oct 26, 2013)

The head and ears look just like our big boy, Ted--he was ten plus pounds. When you mix the genes it's hard to tell because you can have two from the same litter that look different. Nikki is a dwarf mix and looks like a large dwarf--head ,ears, etc. Commander Bun-Bun was a mix but the only Dwarf characteristic she had was the shorter ears. I can say for sure she is a cutie.


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## ladysown (Oct 26, 2013)

she could just as easily be an Holland-mini lop cross.


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## funnybunnymummy (Oct 26, 2013)

Thanks, guys. 

I don't think I've ever seen a mini lop ( pet or show quality) with as narrow a crown as hers, but I suppose it's possible. You just never know with rescues!

Rue


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## Zaiya (Oct 26, 2013)

laus said:


> I would say she looks like a dwarf lop cross with a French lop.



This is what I thought at first, too. The body size is a bit too small to be full French lop, but the head looks like all of the French lops I've ever seen. She also looks like a Mini lop in her body and overall appearence, so I thought "Mini lop French lop mix!".


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## woahlookitsme (Oct 26, 2013)

I would just say mini lop 

Or if you want mini lop mix


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## funnybunnymummy (Oct 26, 2013)

Thanks, everyone for your input.

I doubt very strongly she's a French Lop cross. Just way too small. I'd expect her to be as big as Gus (8 1/2 lb New Zealand cross) if she was a French Lop cross. But she's only 2/3rds to 3/4ths the size of him.

Here's a size comparison of the two:






I'm surprised so many think she's purebred. The thought just never entered my mind as her head just looks so wrong (and I've seen enough Mini Lops in real life to know what they *should* look like--not just photos on the internet). I just assumed (based on the helicopter ears and narrow crown) she was a mix. Was just wondering if anyone had any guesses. I thought her face looked a bit like a Mini Rex, but wasn't sure.

Anyway, will probably stick with Mini Lop cross, since we can never be sure with rescues.

Thanks again!

Rue


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## zombiesue (Oct 26, 2013)

PARDON ME

what is meant by helicopter ears? I love this term I must know what it means HAHA


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## ladysown (Oct 26, 2013)

helicopter ears is when their ears stick out to the sides of their head. It's particularly cute when one is either up or down and the other helicopters.


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## zombiesue (Oct 26, 2013)

I love it.......... I want one. I want TEN.


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Oct 27, 2013)

funnybunnymummy said:


> I'm surprised so many think she's purebred. The thought just never entered my mind as her head just looks so wrong (and I've seen enough Mini Lops in real life to know what they *should* look like--not just photos on the internet). I just assumed (based on the helicopter ears and narrow crown) she was a mix. Was just wondering if anyone had any guesses. I thought her face looked a bit like a Mini Rex, but wasn't sure.



It's very hard to tell by appearance on rabbits. When you're not intentionally breeding with the Standard of Perfection in mind, head and ear are the first things to go. Those two points are difficult to breed, and even more difficult to keep. If you browse Holland Lops, Netherland Dwarfs, or other small, wide breeds at a show, you'll see great variation among them. It's very easy to get narrow heads and tight crowns...wide heads and wide crowns are both the result of very selective breeding (and a touch of luck). You can lose it in one generation if you're not careful.

Anyway, I definitely see what you mean. Her head is a little Mini-Rexy to me too. The thing that makes me say "probably Mini Lop" is because when you breed a lop rabbit to a rabbit with vertical ears, the first generation will often have all vertical ears. It usually (though not always) takes a few generations to see the crown widen enough to carry the ears down like hers are pictured.

She could very well be a mix of some sort too though. Hard to say for sure.

ETA: Yeah, not French Lop. Not seein' that one! LOL


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## funnybunnymummy (Oct 27, 2013)

OakRidgeRabbits said:


> The thing that makes me say "probably Mini Lop" is because when you breed a lop rabbit to a rabbit with vertical ears, the first generation will often have all vertical ears. It usually (though not always) takes a few generations to see the crown widen enough to carry the ears down like hers are pictured.



See this I totally didn't know! I thought you'd get some babies with up ears, some with lop ears and some helicopter ears. 

So she's either the offspring of two lop crosses (maybe siblings?) or a (pet quality) purebred Mini Lop? And most likely the latter?

Thanks!

Rue


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Oct 27, 2013)

funnybunnymummy said:


> See this I totally didn't know! I thought you'd get some babies with up ears, some with lop ears and some helicopter ears.
> 
> So she's either the offspring of two lop crosses (maybe siblings?) or a (pet quality) purebred Mini Lop? And most likely the latter?
> 
> ...



Yes, that would be my guess. 

Sometimes if you breed a vertical-eared rabbit to a lop rabbit, you will get partially or fully lopped ears. But that's not *usually* the case. Producing a crown wide enough to drop the ears can be difficult even when you're intentionally breeding two purebred show rabbits. This is especially true in Holland Lops. So a first-generation mix that happens to include a lop has a reasonable chance of producing all vertical-eared bunnies.

However, you could get totally opposite results. Mixing breeds is pretty unpredictable. But without having solid evidence either way, that is my educated (but possibly still inaccurate) assessment.


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## funnybunnymummy (Oct 28, 2013)

Thanks so much for your feedback. I really appreciate having access to you knowledgeable breeders. I learn so much from you guys! 

Rue


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