# HELP ~ Pet store rabbit had unexpected litter!!!!!



## stargazerLily (Dec 19, 2007)

One of the petstores in town had two rabbits for sale that they thought were boys (can you see where this is going?). They sold one, and this morning the other one had babies. The mom (who is an adorable tort colored dutch) is ignoring the babies. The petstore called the hospital I work at this morning for advice and since the dr here was busy, it was recommended they call the local wildlife rehab center, which told them to kill the babies since they wouldn't make it. 

The petstore manager is appalled by the advice, and told me about all of this when I went to go check on the babies and mom on my lunch break. I looked over the mom and noticed she has not pulled any fur at all, and is basically scared of the babies. There are 7 of them, all look good right now, but none of them have milk bellies (unless rabbits don't get those at newborns). The petstore manager is worried about them, and so am I. I need adviceto give them as what formula to give them, and how often, and what else needs to be done since it's fairly clear the mom is not going to take care of them. 

Please help!

Betsy


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## Flashy (Dec 19, 2007)

This might be moved to the rabbitry forum.

The kits need to go in a nest box, with hay and fur (you can turn the mum over and gently pluck some fur from her belly).

The nest box and doe need to go into a hutch by themselves, somewhere quiet away from chaos.

Most does won't feed until 24-48 hours after birth, so don't panic. And it is normal for them to ignore them too. They will leave them alone and usually return only to feed. Don't intervene yet, other than to put them all where I suggested above, because the mum might just be doing what instincts tell her.


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## stargazerLily (Dec 19, 2007)

That's fine if this gets moved. I couldn't remember how soon the mom would feed and how soon the babies would be in trouble. I had already told the petstore to build a nest box and such, and they moved mom and babies off the store floor into the managers office (the quietest spot they had). So I just need to tell them not to worry if the babies aren't fed for 24 hours?


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## Flashy (Dec 19, 2007)

Yeh, they will need to watch to make sure she is ok with them and stuff, but not disturb them too much.

About 24 hours after the birth check to see if they look like they swallowed a pingpong ball.

I'm sure a more experienced breeder can give you a bit more info.


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## TinysMom (Dec 19, 2007)

First of all, when I'm done with this post - I'll move this to the rabbitry area and PM the original poster with a link.

The first thing I'd do is to get the babies in a nestbox type thing (shoe box even) with some fleece or something. If you can pull a bit of fur from mama...do that.

Then - at least every four hours (at first) - I would take mama to the babies (I would not have them in her cage if she is scared of them - not at first). Take her to them and have some treats for her and basically - have her stand in the nestbox (you may have to hold her in there) and let the babies try to nurse off her.

I say do this every four hours because you don't know when her milk will come in and we want to get them fed fairly soon. Once she has fed them - then I'd start doing this every 8 hours or every 12 hours.

My big concern is over the weekend - can you take her home in a cage with you or something (and the babies) to make sure she feeds them? I'm not sure she'll be used to them by then...to leave them with her.

I know that does in the wild will feed once a day and many does in a rabbitry will feed once per day. I find that my does sometimes feed twice per day (I've had two that fed every four hours until I took the babies out for a bit). I would take her to the babies every 6-8 hours once she starts nursing and I would stay there and monitor her.

You will also have to take a warm damp cloth and wipe their privates like she would do to stimulate them to go to the bathroom. This is VERY important and they must do that after every feeding.

I would give them back to mama once she become more comfortable with them - I'm guessing around day 6 or 7 at the latest. Even my worst does have accepted their babies in the cage with them by day 10.

Oh - and please - take her out of the display area at the pet shop...she needs to be in a back room or something if at all possible.

Your other option is to call any breeders in the area that your shop might use to get rabbits and see if they have any does that can foster....

Peg


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## Bo B Bunny (Dec 19, 2007)

peg, you have the most awesome advice when it comes to babies. Everything you said makes sense and eventhough I know most of it - I'd never have thought of all of it to tell her.



KEEP US POSTED ON THE BABIES PLEASE!!!! :biggrin2:


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## stargazerLily (Dec 19, 2007)

This is going to sound like a stupid question, but since I'm relaying the information to the petstore (I work at the animal hospital), I want to get this right. Keep the mom off display until the babies are weaned, which is like 6 weeks? 

Keep the advice coming


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## Flashy (Dec 19, 2007)

Rabbits should stay with their mum until they are about 8 weeks unless there are extreme circumstances.

Keep her off the sale floor until after that.


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## TinysMom (Dec 19, 2007)

I would at least keep her off display until their eyes are open and they're active in the cage with mama. I tend to want to keep her off display till they are weaned to be honest -but I don't know if they are willing to do that. 

The thing is .. you don't want her sensing stress and wanting to kill the babies.

Peg*

stargazerLily wrote: *


> This is going to sound like a stupid question, but since I'm relaying the information to the petstore (I work at the animal hospital), I want to get this right. Keep the mom off display until the babies are weaned, which is like 6 weeks?
> 
> Keep the advice coming


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## Starlight Rabbitry (Dec 19, 2007)

It doesn't make a difference if their eyes are open or not....Mother rabbits will kill their offspring if she feels threatened in any way. It is best to keep her out of the public's view until they are ready to separate the babies. They can kill them at 6 weeks too.

Sharon


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## stargazerLily (Dec 19, 2007)

Is there anyway it would make more sense for me to just buy her and bring her to my home for the duration and try to find homes for any surviving babies, or ask the petstore if they would like me to keep her until the babies are old enough to be seperated from mom and return them all? Or would that be too stressful for mom and babies to endure? The only reason I'm thinking that this might be best is that she isn't getting very good food there (no hay, some kind of rabbit mix with corn and colored crunchies), and even if she is off the floor, if they keep here where she was when I went to check on her, they still have lots of people walking by and touching her. At least at my place it would be quiet, and only two possible people touching her and the babies, and I have access to a vet 24/7, plus she would get good food and hay. 

I have no idea if the petstore would go for this or not, but I really feel bad for the mom and babies, and even though they aren't mine, I want what's best for them.

I plan on going in tomorrow to see how the young family is doing.


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## bunnylady (Dec 19, 2007)

:?Hi I agree with what you are suggesting, they really need to be in a quiet place it wouldnt hurt to ask them. By all means no one should keep disturbing the mom or the babies. She needs her space. I think they would have a better chance.

bunnylady

" By the way I am a breeder I have 50 or sobreeders and at this time about 30 babies" good luck


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## BlueGiants (Dec 19, 2007)

I think that's a great idea, if they would let you take her home. It would be better for the mom and the kits. And it wuld be awesome to get her on a better diet too.

Peg's advice is right on. Pull the babies to the front of the box (unbury them) and just set momma down over them. Sometimes you will need to hold her gently (just hold her head so she can't jump out or turn around to nip the babies.) Give her 4-5 minutes if possible and let her jump out. Give her a special treat, parsley, Cheerio's, something you think she'll like. Eventually, she may feed them without holding if you "bribe" her.

First time mom's can be nervous and fearful. You will have to stay calm and watchful around her.


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## TinysMom (Dec 19, 2007)

I think that your desire to help out by taking them home would be AWESOME and wonderful.

It isn't that hard to make a mama nurse with what I said. They may not like you - they may scratch you a bit and stuff. But sometimes the mamas need a bit of "encouragement" to get things right and this is a great way to do it.

Peg


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## stargazerLily (Dec 19, 2007)

I'm hoping that once they lock up tonight and leave the mom and babies alone that the mommy instinct will kick in some what. 

I will plan on going over there tomorrow on my lunch break and see what kind of deal I can work out with them. Hopefully they will let me help. 

Thank you for all the advice. Hopefully I'll have a good update for everyone tomorrow, and maybe some pictures.

Betsy


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## timetowaste (Dec 19, 2007)

i'm really shocked that a wildlife rehab organization would tell your manager to just go ahead and KILL those babies....

i volunteer over summers for an organization called liberty wildlife where we rehabilitate animals native to arizona (birds, reptiles, gila monsters, tortoises, coyotes, etc etc) including rabbits. we would NEVER kill the babies. in fact, if they were wild, we would try not to imprint on them and wear a bush like costume so they cant see that humans are being friendly.


tracy


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## bunnylady (Dec 20, 2007)

Any news on the new mom and babies

bunnylady


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## gentle giants (Dec 20, 2007)

*timetowaste wrote: *


> i'm really shocked that a wildlife rehab organization would tell your manager to just go ahead and KILL those babies....
> 
> 
> tracy


I thought the same thing. Why would they assume the babies wouldn't survive? I wonder if the manager jsut happened to talk to someone who really didn't have a clue. Hopefully the center doesn't give advice like that to everyone who calls them. :grumpy:


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## Baby Juliet (Dec 20, 2007)

*timetowaste wrote: *


> i'm really shocked that a wildlife rehab organization would tell your manager to just go ahead and KILL those babies....


They are probably right though if the mother rejects the kits. I had 5 kits that were ophaned at 2 day old. I gave them goat's milk but they all died from day 8 to day 11. The last one died the day after it opened its eyes. 

Kitsnurse from their mother in less than 2 minutes. It took me 10 minutes each kit trying to get them to eat 1cc of goat's milk. I fed them twice a day.


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## gentle giants (Dec 20, 2007)

*Baby Juliet wrote: *


> *timetowaste wrote: *
> 
> 
> > i'm really shocked that a wildlife rehab organization would tell your manager to just go ahead and KILL those babies....
> ...




We don't know yet though that she has/will reject them, she hasn't even had a chance to try. Plus the person at the center that said that wasn't even willing to give them a chance. It's pretty rare that you can't get the doe to give them any kind of care, sometimes you have to help the doe a little, but she can usually be convinced. At least in my experience.


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## stargazerLily (Dec 20, 2007)

I stopped in to check on mom and babies today on my lunch break. I was going to see about either buying them or seeing if the store would let me take them until the babies were old enough, but I had one heck of a day at work, and wasn't in the mindset to do that. 

Anyway, the manager who I talked to yesterday had taken my advice even moreso. They moved the mom into a big aqarium (similar to what she had been in, but not the same), had a nest box in there, plus had put a heating pad (actually a heated dog bed, at least they are using what they have) under part of the cage. The heated bed was on the lowest setting, with enough padding and such between the heat source and the babies so that they wouldn't get burned. They had moved the family into the women's rest room, so they could turn the light out (except for a small night light)and close the door and keep mom and babies completely away from traffic. Mom seemed a lot more relaxed today. The babies were all squirmy still, none of them looked dehydrated, no sunken in bellies, and they were warm. One of the late evening employees thought that she had seen mom on top of the babies feeding them before she left last night, so all good signs. The manager is thankful that I'm coming in to check on every one. The only bad sign I saw was that mom still hadn't pulled any hair for the babies, but with the extra heat source, and the bedding in the nest, and the location they are in (now away from any cold drafts that might come from the front door), I'm not too worried. Now just to keep fingers crossed that the mom and babies continue to do well.


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## TinysMom (Dec 21, 2007)

Oh wow - this is awesome. I hope those babies make it.

Peg


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## bunnylady (Dec 21, 2007)

*I think the manager of the store is awesome. Most do not care. Sounds like they are doing the right things for the sake of the new family. Thanks for letting us know what is going on. You are awesome yourself for checking in on them too.Have a wonderful holiday*

*bunnylady*


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## TinysMom (Dec 24, 2007)

Bumping to see if we can get an update...


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## stargazerLily (Dec 26, 2007)

I stopped in to see the "family" today on my lunch break, and let me tell you, those babies are going to be so adorable! Mom and babies are doing great. All of them are still alive, and all about the same size. Their fur is coming in nicely, and you can really see the colors. It looks like the whole litter is broken coat (mom is a dutch, can't remember what dad was), most of them marked similar to an english spot. The majority of the litter is going to be white with black markings and the rest look to be white with agouti or maybe the beginnings of white and torti coloring. It looked like a couple were starting to open their eyes, but it could have been the way their "eye liner" looked. All of the babies have gotten bigger. 

The babies are a week old now too. It seems like once the petstore did the setup the mom is in now, she felt a lot better about being a mom. The whole family really does look great. The mom even ran up to me when I came over to say hi to her.

Thank you again for all the help everyone has provided. I will try to update as I can. It's going to be really hard not to want to take one of the babies home to be part of my family.


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## TinysMom (Dec 27, 2007)

*stargazerLily wrote:*


> It's going to be really hard not to want to take one of the babies home to be part of my family.


*Only one????

*:shock:

Thanks so much for helping the pet store - I'm sure it is thanks to your intervention that the babies are still alive!

Peg*
*


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## stargazerLily (Jan 9, 2008)

I wanted to update and say the babies are now 3 weeks old, and all seven are still alive. They are all cute little puff balls who popcorn and bounce and spring off the cage walls, and poor mommy says "let me out!". Two (or maybe three) are broken agoutis and the rest are broken blacks. All of them have eye liner, a dorsal stripe, and spots on either side. They are super adorable. I just have to keep convincing myself I can't have one.


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 9, 2008)

Awww I want a popcorn bunny!


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## TinysMom (Jan 10, 2008)

I was just thinking about these - thanks for updating. I wonder if the pet shop workers are getting an education from watching them.

Peg


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## Bramblerose (Jan 10, 2008)

Just for future reference, I use dryer lint when the doe doesn't pull enough fur, it clumps a bit but keeps them warm. Its terrific that this situation had a happy ending.


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## bluedimplett (Jan 11, 2008)

I want to see pictures of these sweet little buns


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## TinysMom (Jan 28, 2008)

Bumping for an update...

Peg


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## stargazerLily (Jan 28, 2008)

The babies are 5 weeks old (almost 6), and were moved to the sales floor last week. The manager came in to where I work to have her parrots' wings done and beak and nails trimmed and said they had already sold 4 of them. So I'm sure within a couple weeks, all will be sold.


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 28, 2008)

I hope they gave them the lowdown on bunnies as pets!


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