# Cabinet Conversion Thread



## RoseBun1 (Apr 24, 2019)

After much searching, I finally found the cabinet I plan to convert into a hutch, and I got it for $24 because today was half off day at the thrift store!

It's 4' long x 2.5' deep x 3.5' tall.

Hoping to get all the doors and hardware pulled out tonight after the boys go to bed and figure out what I'm going to need for shelves.


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## Blue eyes (Apr 24, 2019)

This may (or may not) give you some ideas...
It shows how we converted a kitchen oven cabinet.


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## RoseBun1 (Apr 24, 2019)

End of day 1.

I have my doors planned out, and know how I'm going to do the shelves. Tomorrow I'm going to pick up lumber and start building!


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## RoseBun1 (Apr 26, 2019)

Day 2

Got a ton done today. Got shelf supports in, the doors generally aligned, recovered the top, built up the base, and added legs. I'm hoping the weather holds out to paint tomorrow.


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## Imbrium (Apr 26, 2019)

Wow, it's really coming along! Very impressive repurposing of an old cabinet.


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## RoseBun1 (Apr 27, 2019)

Day 4

Yesterday I did the first coat of paint, so didn't take pictures. Today, I did a second coat of paint, built the shelves, wallpapered the back piece, hung the back piece, and moved it into the house. I'm really liking it so far. Tomorrow I plan to put the vinyl on the bottom and the levels, and hang the doors.

Additional exciting news, we go to our initial meet and greet for the bonded pair we are hoping to adopt!


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## Blue eyes (Apr 28, 2019)

Difficult to grasp perspective. What is the height between each of the 3 levels?


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## RoseBun1 (Apr 28, 2019)

Floor to the first and first to second are both 13", second to ceiling is 16". The second level shelf is only solid part of the way across so it's more of a half shelf. I had to keep the frame around the edge for structural reasons.


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## RoseBun1 (Apr 28, 2019)

I used this cage as my example/template.


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## Imbrium (Apr 28, 2019)

Are they going to be confined to the hutch or will they have the liberty to come and go as they please? If confined to it for any lengths of time, they really need to have enough space to stand up (periscope) on at *least* one of the levels. If they're free roam (or have an attached run w/x-pens or something that they've got 24/7 access to) then it's ok that the levels are so short... otherwise, you may want to rethink the setup.

http://www.therabbithouse.com/guide_size.asp
https://bunnyapproved.com/indoor-rabbit-housing/
https://rabbitsindoors.weebly.com/housing-options.html

Edit: just saw the template cage you were looking it... you'll notice that the third level is only a half level and there's a section of the cage where bunny can stand up and stretch.


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## RoseBun1 (Apr 28, 2019)

Right. That's why the top shelf only goes part way across. I guess I could make the hole bigger if that's the issue, but I can't take the shelves out or move them without tearing everything apart. The opening is about the same as 2 nic panels (14" across by 24" deep) I didn't want to make it too much bigger because I didn't want the shelf to sag.

I guess I didn't realize that the height would be an issue since all the nic cage levels are at roughly 12-14 and that seems to be fine. I was trying to balance providing them space and not having to put in ramps. Sigh.


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## Imbrium (Apr 28, 2019)

Yeah, ramps definitely take up too much space. On my NIC condos, I've always done the bottom floor as 2 grids high... middle floor, if I do three, has been 1 or 1.5 grids in the past (I've done a couple 3x3 condos that were 5 grids high and 3 stories, also a 2x4 that was 5 high/3 stories and currently have a 3x6 that's 4 grids high and 2 stories). As I said, what you have is fine as long as they're not stuck in it... and there's nothing you can build in that approximate size/shape that wouldn't have the same need for running around space (even my ginormous 3x6 condo requires daily running around time outside of it). The links I provided give some examples and further info about total space needed and how to set up a run. The general rule of thumb for rabbits is *either* 60 square feet of space OR at least 2-3 hours a day of free range time.


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## Blue eyes (Apr 28, 2019)

RoseBun1 said:


> Right. That's why the top shelf only goes part way across. I guess I could make the hole bigger if that's the issue, but I can't take the shelves out or move them without tearing everything apart. The opening is about the same as 2 nic panels (14" across by 24" deep) I didn't want to make it too much bigger because I didn't want the shelf to sag.
> 
> I guess I didn't realize that the height would be an issue since all the nic cage levels are at roughly 12-14 and that seems to be fine. I was trying to balance providing them space and not having to put in ramps. Sigh.



Looks workable to me-- along with their time out of course.  The shelf_ spacing_ is just fine (though it would be nice to see the top shelf a few inches smaller (to make the opening larger). The template you used has that opening equal to 4 nic panels. That just gives the bunny a more open feel above them and can encourage that stretching. The shelf placements are fine.

It will be gorgeous when complete from what we've seen so far.


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## RoseBun1 (Apr 30, 2019)

Day 6

I finally had some time to work on the hutch. I did open the hole in the top shelf another 8 inches. I got the vinyl all in. I really like how it looks. If I ever stop using this for rabbits it would make a super cute shelf.

Hopefully I'll get the doors on tomorrow.


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## Blue eyes (Apr 30, 2019)

Looking good!


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## RoseBun1 (May 3, 2019)

No hutch updates. I'm working on the doors, but I have a bunny update. 

I found out today that we cannot adopt a rabbit because even at the size the hutch is and with attaching an x pen to it, it is too small and "unacceptable for any bunny to be in there for any length of time." The minimum requirement is 6 x 4 and "no enclosure of any type is ever acceptable for a rabbit." Even after explaining that having them in the hutch would only happen when we were gone until we were sure the dog is trained, it is still unacceptable.

Maybe I should just turn it into a shelf and not do this at all.


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## JBun (May 3, 2019)

Don't give up if you really want a bun. I would just find another rabbit in need of a home from somewhere else. Some rescues have very strict requirements, even a bit unreasonable in some instances, but there's nothing you can do about it besides going by their requirements or getting your rabbit from someone else.


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## A & B (May 3, 2019)

I agree with JBun. You could try checking Craigslist, and that way the people on there won't have unreasonable requirements. If this is really what you want, don't give up now. Keep looking.


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## RoseBun1 (May 3, 2019)

Does this seem unreasonable? I can't tell if I'm just being overly emotional or if it is just dumb. Here is the image she sent me of a "proper setup" It's smaller then what they would have with the hutch and x pen, and I'm not comfortable using those foam pieces because so many people have had issues with chewing.


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## A & B (May 3, 2019)

If your rabbit will get lots of time outside of the cage, I don't see a problem with your cage idea. That cage they sent you is massive and let's be honest: no one has enough space for that. My rabbit's new cage is 4 feet by 4 feet and that's big enough for him. He is free roam at the moment but when his friend comes home, they both will get 12 hours of playtime. 

If the rescue is this strict about the cage, imagine how strict they will be about the actual adoption.


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## Blue eyes (May 3, 2019)

RoseBun1 said:


> Does this seem unreasonable? I can't tell if I'm just being overly emotional or if it is just dumb. Here is the image she sent me of a "proper setup" It's smaller then what they would have with the hutch and x pen, and I'm not comfortable using those foam pieces because so many people have had issues with chewing.



How were you planning on arranging the x-pen to provide more space than the rescue's photo shows?

I have a suggestion. Why not (at least temporarily) keep the doors off of the hutch you are making. Then set up the x-pen around it as you had intended and take a photo of that. (You can even attach the photo here for suggestions.) But then you could submit that to the rescue as your housing set-up. They don't need to know if you eventually decide to put doors on the hutch.

I'm just curious how you will create a large enough space with the x-pen. Their photo makes use of *2* pens. (But they could have created the same space with just one if they kept the pen off of the 2 walls.)


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## RoseBun1 (May 3, 2019)

Blue eyes said:


> How were you planning on arranging the x-pen to provide more space than the rescue's photo shows?
> 
> I have a suggestion. Why not (at least temporarily) keep the doors off of the hutch you are making. Then set up the x-pen around it as you had intended and take a photo of that. (You can even attach the photo here for suggestions.) But then you could submit that to the rescue as your housing set-up. They don't need to know if you eventually decide to put doors on the hutch.
> 
> I'm just curious how you will create a large enough space with the x-pen. Their photo makes use of *2* pens. (But they could have created the same space with just one if they kept the pen off of the 2 walls.)



I didn't realize it was 2, but I was planning on putting ours in an L opposite the wall, if that makes sense. So in the square that is their area, 2 sides would be the actual corner/wall of the room, and the other 2 would be the x pen. The hutch would be in the corner and not actually attached to the x pen. This is assuming the buns won't chew the baseboards. If they do, I'll have to rethink some stuff.

That's a good idea doing the setup and taking a picture of that. I need to move a bunch of stuff, which I have to do anyway, I'm just not motivated right now. I'll attach a pic once I get it all moved tomorrow.


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## RoseBun1 (May 5, 2019)

OMG things have happened this weekend.

1. Finished the hutch. I did decide to put the doors on. I just needed it to be complete. I still need to get stuff to fill it and like actual supplies, but the construction is done.

2. This is how I plan to arrange the x pen. Will this be big enough? It's roughly 6 x 6. suggestions on how to keep it against the walls without having to put like eye hooks in there? I don't really want to add holes to my wall but want to make sure my dog and kids can't move it. I also need to move the actual door for the gate, I just haven't yet.

3. I convinced my husband to let me apply to a rescue and hour and a half away and they accepted our application. We should be setting up a home visit this week! If this one falls through though, I think we'll be done with the rescue route. Fingers crossed!

4. This is more of a question. Is flooring a trial and error thing? One of the concerns from the strict rescue was the flooring in the hutch (peel and stick vinyl) and on the actual floors (hardwoods). I have some grass mats on the bottom floor of the hutch but they are way too small and I was thinking of ordering some seagrass place mats instead. I feel like everyone has a favorite but everyone also has reasons why the other options are bad. Should I just put a variety of things down and see what happens?


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## Blue eyes (May 5, 2019)

The reason I had suggested to hold off on the doors is so the rescue doesn't consider it an enclosed cage/hutch. With doors off, it would seem to be just an addition to the permanent space of the ex-pen. Any rescue could possibly reject that cage (with doors) if they think that a rabbit will be confined to it.

I would strongly suggest protecting your main floor with something on top. Even a single sheet of rolled lino would do the trick. Just be sure the edges are beyond the edges of the pen so bunny can't get to it and chew it. If bunny is good with carpet, an area rug is another alternative for the floor there.

The stick vinyl inside your cage could only be a problem if the edges are accessible. Particularly, the opening edges could be a temptation. A U-channel piece could serve as a block for that.

Your pen area: I would suggest putting the edge of the right side directly into the corner of the room at an angle so that it is equal angle from the wall on each corner. The corner itself could act as a barrier preventing pushing or pulling. That may have to be tested out though. As for the left side, a brick or two (or something similarly heavy) could snug the pen against that wall.

And, yes, flooring is absolutely a trial & error thing. What some rabbits will chew or slip upon is totally different than others. And it can change for an individual rabbit as well. I've had mats that went months untouched and then suddenly they decided to chew them.


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## JBun (May 5, 2019)

That's great! I hope it works out.

Flooring really depends on the rabbit that you end up with. If the rabbit is a chewer, that can limit options. Also some rabbits are very nervous on slippery floors and will even avoid hopping on them at all. So you will really just have to see what your rabbit is comfortable with.

Hard floors are good for clean up, but the problem is that it alters a rabbits natural body position. They have to shift their weight so it's more on their back feet, and this can sometimes cause sore hocks due to the increased pressure on the heel, if they spend a lot of time on the hard flooring without having another soft option to be on.

For my rabbits I use those foam flooring pieces as my rabbits don't tend to try and chew on them. If you had a big chewer then they definitely wouldn't work. I use the wood veneer ones for my little rabbit group that has a tendency to urine mark outside the litter box, so it makes for fairly easy cleanup. Though I have had to seal the cracks where the tiles connect so I don't get urine seepage under them. 

For my big rabbit pair I just use the foam tile pack from costco, then I have a microfiber rug on top of that. I like the microfiber rugs because they have a very soft surface and aren't as abrasive to rabbit feet(help prevent sore hocks) as other types of rugs. If you use a rug, just make sure to use something with a soft surface. 

Fleece fabric is another option, though it will tend to slide around unless you have a way to secure it. Vet bed with none slip backing would also be an option, though it is a bit expensive.

But the problems with using rugs and other soft things for flooring is that some rabbits LOVE to pee on soft things. They may also try and chew them. My rabbit pair has a rug because they don't pee outside the litter box except for the occasional accident. My little rabbit group doesn't get a rug because they do pee outside the litter box. So the foam flooring gives them a softer surface, but is urine resistant. I do give them pet beds to snuggle up in, that I just rotate out and wash as needed though.

You'll find that finding the right set up for your individual rabbit, takes a bit of trial and error. I don't know hay many different flooring, litter boxes, arrangements, hay holders, etc, that I've tried until I found just the right one or situation for each rabbit. I hope you don't mind spending money


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## RoseBun1 (May 5, 2019)

Thanks everyone. 

I guess I'll just wait and see what rabbit we end up with and go from there. I should be able to get some background info and see their current setup or at least get info on it before bringing them home, so I can get flooring they are used to/comfortable with.


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## zuppa (May 5, 2019)

RoseBun1 said:


> OMG things have happened this weekend.
> 
> 1. Finished the hutch. I did decide to put the doors on. I just needed it to be complete. I still need to get stuff to fill it and like actual supplies, but the construction is done.
> 
> ...


Your project is looking gorgeous, you've really put lots of work into it and really done professionally, perfect project 
If you want my honest opinion I've got four rabbits one dwarf mix with lionhead he's very light and active I could imagine him using your hutch, occasionally, but I wouldn't really even put my other rabbits into it.

My Smokey she's a holland lop in my avatar she's not that big but she's very active and moving fast in her cage, she wants to run wall to wall, wants to stand and reach the top etc, she'd hate to be there, there's three levels so the ceiling would be too low she couldn't stand at all, and it is not deep enough for her either. 
Then, when she's in the third level I'd say I'd better fix it to the wall. 

It is an excellent display unit, dollhouse, or maybe would suit some smaller animal like gerbils or hamsters, in my opinion a rabbit needs first floor to be very solid and large enough to fully stretch and also can fully stand. 

The floor around also completely unsuitable for rabbits, two of my rabbits wouldn't be able to even walk there, you'd have to put something, lino or low-pile carpet or something so they can use it. 

Apologies for my criticism but this completely unsuitable for a living rabbit, this is a museum display unit! It looks fantastic really, you could sell it for a couple hundreds as a doll house.


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## zuppa (May 5, 2019)

RoseBun1 said:


> After much searching, I finally found the cabinet I plan to convert into a hutch, and I got it for $24 because today was half off day at the thrift store!
> 
> It's 4' long x 2.5' deep x 3.5' tall.
> 
> Hoping to get all the doors and hardware pulled out tonight after the boys go to bed and figure out what I'm going to need for shelves.


Just checked your measurements now, it would be better if you only had two levels instead of three, 4 ft is long enough but you've cut holes so it's less now, it is deep enough too, I don't know why it doesn't look deep in your last pictures. But if you have 3.5 ft per three level it's only 1 ft high each, if you had two levels would be enough probably.

Or maybe I am missing something, sorry then


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## zuppa (May 5, 2019)

Here's rabbit housing size guide it has to be at least 2 ft high


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## Blue eyes (May 6, 2019)

Poopy Poo said:


> Just checked your measurements now, it would be better if you only had two levels instead of three, 4 ft is long enough but you've cut holes so it's less now, it is deep enough too, I don't know why it doesn't look deep in your last pictures. But if you have 3.5 ft per three level it's only 1 ft high each, if you had two levels would be enough probably.
> 
> Or maybe I am missing something, sorry then



Poopy Poo, I think you missed the conversation earlier in this thread about the height between the shelves. That was discussed earlier. She cut back on the 2nd level to allow overhead space on half the first level. The top shelf has 16" overhead space.


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## Liung (May 6, 2019)

Honestly regardless of if something is too small, rabbits love to have something that is space just for them. When I rescued Delilah she came in one of those crappy pet store cages. I kept it, stuck it in their enclosure with the door permanently open, and they happily claimed it as their bed/litter box. 

When I moved, I decided I wanted to convert an entertainment unit into a condo, and after much searching found the perfect one on Kijiji for $70. The original plan was that it was going to be big enough to be their home, and then through the day the doors would be opened so they could come out into the spare room. 

To my surprise my hubby wasn’t concerned with them getting into trouble at night, so now the condo doors stay open and it’s the spare room door that closes when we’re worried about leaving them unsupervised. 

Despite this, the vast majority of the time Lahi and Delilah can be found cuddling on the middle shelf. If they’re not on the middle shelf, they’re probably in one of the litter boxes. 

Delilah is also quite chubby, and Lahi very skinny. So now what I’ve been doing is trading them off at night, one bun gets 2/3 of the condo for the night, the other bun gets 1/3 of the condo and the rest of the room. That way they’re separated and can be fed apart. And it does take Lahi all night to eat his food. 

But even with this setup whichever bun got the room to themselves can typically be found in the morning lounging on the shelf of the condo. 

They just love their condo! They love having a tunnelly, enclosed space that is just theirs. And I don’t know if this is all buns or just mine, but they LOVE being up high. When I made them an NIC condo before we moved, the top shelf was their very favourite!

Rabbits don’t tend to like wide open spaces, and condos such as what we make resemble the warrens European rabbits dig in the wild. As long as they have room to roam outside their condo, imo condos with a little bit of sprinting area make bunnies just as happy or happier than a huge pen without enclosed spaces. Even people whose buns are completely free-range through their entire house still usually have a hutch somewhere as the bun’s home base.


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## RoseBun1 (May 6, 2019)

Liung said:


> Honestly regardless of if something is too small, rabbits love to have something that is space just for them. When I rescued Delilah she came in one of those crappy pet store cages. I kept it, stuck it in their enclosure with the door permanently open, and they happily claimed it as their bed/litter box.
> 
> When I moved, I decided I wanted to convert an entertainment unit into a condo, and after much searching found the perfect one on Kijiji for $70. The original plan was that it was going to be big enough to be their home, and then through the day the doors would be opened so they could come out into the spare room.
> 
> ...



I LOVE your conversion! It looks so well done. I'm glad to hear about your buns. With everything everyone has been saying, I was starting to wonder if I was doing the right thing with the hutch. I'm glad it has worked out for you and your buns.

On a positive note, we passed our home visit! The girl from the rescue an hour and a half away was very impressed with the hutch and the setup. We discussed flooring options and decided carpet and fleece will be best in the hutch and either an area rug or foam tiles or both on the floor. This is pretty standard for the foster setups.

They have an event on Saturday so hopefully we connect with some bunnies and get to bring one home.


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## A & B (May 6, 2019)

RoseBun1 said:


> I LOVE your conversion! It looks so well done. I'm glad to hear about your buns. With everything everyone has been saying, I was starting to wonder if I was doing the right thing with the hutch. I'm glad it has worked out for you and your buns.
> 
> On a positive note, we passed our home visit! The girl from the rescue an hour and a half away was very impressed with the hutch and the setup. We discussed flooring options and decided carpet and fleece will be best in the hutch and either an area rug or foam tiles or both on the floor. This is pretty standard for the foster setups.
> 
> They have an event on Saturday so hopefully we connect with some bunnies and get to bring one home.


Congratulations! Looking forward to seeing pictures of your bunny!


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## Liung (May 6, 2019)

Their enclosure before was 4x8 with a litter box, some hides, etc. When I found out Lahi had sore hocks from being on hard flooring and embarked on a complete renovation to install carpet and such, I decided to also create a NIC condo to give them vertical space. It was only 1 square wide but it was more space than they had. And they LOVED the top shelf. Possibly because it allowed them to see over the walls of the enclosure and watch what was going on, but tbh Delilah has always been ABSOLUTELY DETERMINED to be on top of the tallest object in any given room. A common thing to hear: “DELILAH YOU ARE NOT A CAT!!”

When I moved, I decided that what I had was functional, but over the years had really gotten beat up and looked kinda shabby. And it was very obviously handmade. I wanted something that looked like custom-built furniture instead of a DIY project, and wouldn’t stand out in my new home. I’m so happy with how the final condo turned out.

One thing I wanted to ask... what did you use to put vinyl on the shelves? I couldn’t find the clear vinyl sheets I’d used when I carpeted the old enclosure, so I bought a clear shower curtain and used that. In both cases I taped it down with double-sided carpet tape. But it’s such a hassle, and in a couple places wear on the vinyl tore holes in it and let hay pieces underneath.


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## Imbrium (May 9, 2019)

The standard rule of thumb I've always heard is *either* 2-3 hours minimum of free-roam time OR 60+ square feet of space. The set-up you have with the hutch + xpen is perfectly suitable considering it's only for safety when you're not there to supervise them with the dog. I think the rescue is being overly strict/protective. "No enclosure ever" is insane. Also, I'm with you about the dubious nature of the foam tiles.

As others have said, don't let one crazy lady at one rescue deter you from getting rabbits!

Edit: Whoops! Posted without realizing there was a second page. I'm so glad you've found another rescue to adopt from .


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## RoseBun1 (May 11, 2019)

They are here! And yes it's they. 

The Dutch is Hare-ison Ford. And the black is Lola bunny (like from Space Jam).

They are a bonded pair. Both fixed.

I do have a question though. We have the x pen up, but I put them in the hutch where their litter box and such is with the doors open. They seem to relax quite a bit when I closed the door vs having it open. Is this normal? Should I start with it closed just for now? Also, they haven't really moved from their spot. I've seen them eat a little, but haven't eaten any hay or gotten into their litter box where their hay is. Should I just leave them alone, or should I put them in their litter box with their hay? We've been home for a couple hours.


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## A & B (May 11, 2019)

I have a Bugs bunny and I will be adopting a Lola bunny on Friday! I named my bun after Space Jam characters too! Your little ones are cuties!

They're probably scared with all of the new changes so for now, you should leave them alone


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## Blue eyes (May 11, 2019)

Keeping doors closed for now is actually a good idea. It gives them a smaller space so they feel more secure. It also gives them time to establish that space as theirs. And it helps them find and use their litter box.

Just leave them alone for now. Still go about whatever normal activities will occur in that space/room, but just leave them alone in their new hutch. They should be left undisturbed for 48 hours. Only exception would be to refill food, hay or water -- and then keep it short.

After the 48 hours, then you can open the doors again. I know that may seem unbearable since you are anxious to get to know them, but this allows them to adjust in the shortest time possible.


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## RoseBun1 (May 11, 2019)

Blue eyes said:


> Keeping doors closed for now is actually a good idea. It gives them a smaller space so they feel more secure. It also gives them time to establish that space as theirs. And it helps them find and use their litter box.
> 
> Just leave them alone for now. Still go about whatever normal activities will occur in that space/room, but just leave them alone in their new hutch. They should be left undisturbed for 48 hours. Only exception would be to refill food, hay or water -- and then keep it short.
> 
> After the 48 hours, then you can open the doors again. I know that may seem unbearable since you are anxious to get to know them, but this allows them to adjust in the shortest time possible.



I actually just read this in your website too, so I'm keeping everyone out of there until Monday.

I did put veggies in there tonight, but they aren't eating them. How long should I leave the veggies in there? The bunnies seem to really like that middle level, but haven't gone back down where all their food, water, hay, etc are. If they got up okay, they should be able to get down right? I know they aren't used to the multi floor thing so I'm not sure what, if anything, to do.


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## JBun (May 11, 2019)

You could pick them up and set them in the litter box just once, in case they haven't realized that's where the food and potty is. It's likely overnight when things are quiet, they will settle in better and check things out.


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## Blue eyes (May 11, 2019)

Have they had veggies before? If you are giving them greens that you know for sure that they have eaten regularly in the past, then it is fine to offer them. Otherwise, no new foods until they've settled in (I'd say about a week or so before offering anything different).


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## RoseBun1 (May 12, 2019)

Blue eyes said:


> Have they had veggies before? If you are giving them greens that you know for sure that they have eaten regularly in the past, then it is fine to offer them. Otherwise, no new foods until they've settled in (I'd say about a week or so before offering anything different).



They have apparently had a lot of fruit in the past and Roman, so I was sticking with


Blue eyes said:


> Have they had veggies before? If you are giving them greens that you know for sure that they have eaten regularly in the past, then it is fine to offer them. Otherwise, no new foods until they've settled in (I'd say about a week or so before offering anything different).



They have had romane, so I'll stick with that for now. They are still on the middle level and it looks like nothing has been touched on the bottom.

I've run into another issue. They were reliably using a litter box at the foster, but haven't touched it here. There is poop and pee all over this morning. Do I go in and clean everything or just let it ride the next 2 days? Also I put rugs down in there because everyone was freaking out about the vinyl, do you think I should pull them until they start using the litter reliably.


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## JBun (May 12, 2019)

I would take the rugs out and see how they do. They may also be having problems navigating the levels and can't get down. It's often easier for them to hop up on something than down. I would open up the cabinet and let them have access to the pen at least for a little bit to have a bit of a stretch and even pick them up and move them out there, maybe give their veggies while out too. I would put an extra litter box out there if they don't seem inclined to go back into the cabinet to use it. If they don't seem comfortable being out in the pen, maybe see if just sitting with them helps.


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## zuppa (May 12, 2019)

RoseBun1 said:


> They have had romane, so I'll stick with that for now. They are still on the middle level and it looks like nothing has been touched on the bottom.
> I've run into another issue. They were reliably using a litter box at the foster, but haven't touched it here. There is poop and pee all over this morning. Do I go in and clean everything or just let it ride the next 2 days? Also I put rugs down in there because everyone was freaking out about the vinyl, do you think I should pull them until they start using the litter reliably.


Can you post some picture of how it looks now?

Firstly, I would put them into a transportation box or what you have there and would clean the area using vinegar for neutralising urine smell as they like peeing in the same spot where the smell already, so I would put paper towel soaked in urine under their litter in the litter box and generous amount of poos too, so only litter box has urine and poo smell and everywhere else is clean and no urine smell.

Secondly, I would put their toilet box on the floor, say in the left corner and would fix some hay over it, also I'd place their water bottle and food bowl over or near, so they have everything around their box.

And when you bring them back from their transportation box put them directly into their toilet box which will only smell like them as you've cleaned around already.

Then leave them alone for a few hours or over night, then let us know how it was.

I don't see what rugs you have there, photo would be nice.

Don't get scared I think they just can't find their toilet maybe if you put their pee & poo into it and will make it easy to reach for them they will start using it.


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## zuppa (May 12, 2019)

P.S. Do you use wood pellets or what kind of litter is in their toilet box?


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## RoseBun1 (May 12, 2019)

Figured some stuff out.

1. They were totally getting stuck on the middle because I was dumb. The fosters gave me this chew log thing for them and I had it in a bad spot so they couldn't get the angle to jump down. I took it out to clean some stuff and they jumped down right away on their own.

2. Tonight once the boys were in bed, I opened up everything and let them run around. They are doing awesome, and we have only had a few poops out of the litter box. I kept the litter box where it was in the hutch, but switched out the rug I had down on the bottom for more of a mat, which is what I have in the middle. They seem to like this way better and aren't chewing on it like they did the other one. I did vinegar clean the second level and out in a fresh mat. Glad they are machine washable.

3. The triangle thing on the floor is a cardboard cat scratchers from PetSmart. They LOVE it. They are chewing it, digging on it, running through it, and climbing over it. I'd recommend it.

4. Our dog is medium interested in the bunnies, but will come away when called and will only really go over there if I'm over there. He whines a lot if I'm in the pen but if I'm out he could care less about them. Any ideas how to help work him towards being okay with me being in there?

5. I've seen several binkies this evening, which has been awesome because I was honestly in tears earlier today.

6. Thank you everyone for all your help. Rabbits are WAY more work then people say/think especially if you want to house them correctly, so thank you for your guidance.


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## RoseBun1 (May 12, 2019)

Meant to add pictures.


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## RoseBun1 (May 12, 2019)

Pooped out after several hours of running around.


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## A & B (May 13, 2019)

They look like they're getting more and more comfortable


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## Imbrium (May 14, 2019)

Liung said:


> And I don’t know if this is all buns or just mine, but they LOVE being up high. When I made them an NIC condo before we moved, the top shelf was their very favourite!



I've found this as well, lol - rabbits LOVE being up high; in the wild, these would be the best perches to spot would-be predators from. They'd rather forage on top a hill than down in a valley.

I'm so glad things are working out well for your new bonded pair and that they're enjoying their new habitat . Nothing warms the heart more than seeing new bunnies binky for the first time!


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## zuppa (May 15, 2019)

RoseBun1 said:


> Meant to add pictures.


You probably hate me already but I would add some kind of ramp or bridge from the third level to the floor or wooden condo, I still think if they decided on jumping down from there when the door is open they can injure themselves.


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## April LD (May 15, 2019)

Some of mine too. I call them Parrot buns...they want to sit on my shoulder and look around...it's really funny. So I have some that will climb onto my shoulder while on the couch and also when we are outside they will jump up on my shoulder...silly bunnies.


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## zuppa (Jun 29, 2019)

Hi, how's it going? Just wondering if your bunnies feeling comfortable in this cabinet? Please post some more pics if you've made more improvements


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## zuppa (Jun 29, 2019)

I have a project myself I want to build a housing under my large desk that would be about 180 cm x 100 cm and I want to add about 30 cm at the back like an extension between desk and wall there will be like an extra shelf then I'd put some plants and folders there. 

I've got fireguard panels for the front they are 68 cm high and there will be a sliding door and for flooring I will use lino and for the back not sure I thought maybe light wood panel but maybe something easy to clean maybe just cover with lino as well, that'd be a bit more expensive then. 

So back and at least one side will be solid and front and other side will be fireguard panels so they have enough light. Also thinking of making it on castors with stoppers, but not sure yet.

With high of 70 cm I am definitely adding back and side shelves so they will have main floor 180 x 120 cm (or 160 x 120 cm if on castors) and shelf going on sides and through the back on about 35 cm high with full high about 68-70 cm, so this shelf is going to be about 180 cm long (or 160 cm) and about 40-50 cm deep so basically like second floor but the middle will have no second floor.


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## zuppa (Jun 29, 2019)

Something like


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## Smitha (Jun 29, 2019)

Hi, my bunny have shredded hair behind its ears and there is a bald spot
. I don't find any mites or fleas and he is not scratching his body too much. Is this normal? And is he a lion head?


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