# Alyssa's Bunny Blog!



## A & B (May 4, 2019)

So I've finally decided to start a blog! I just sat and tried to think of a creative name for it, but I came up with nothing good so I guess this name's good enough. I don't even know where to begin! I'm Alyssa, a 14-year-old from Iowa with a 1-year-old Holland Lop named Bugs, but you probably know that already.

I'm also very close to adopting another rabbit. We will be taking Bugs on some dates very soon. Below are pictures of the three we will be meeting along with a brief description of them.

The first is Brinn. She apparently doesn't do well with female rabbits, but the rescue believes she will do well with males. She was on the list for euthanasia at the shelter she was at before and spent a year in that shelter. She's a two-year-old Harlequin Mix.





The next is Cricket. She's a 6-month-old Mini Rex. They believe she is a dumped easter bunny. She will flinch when you touch her ears and because of this, the rescue believes she was picked up by her ears on multiple occasions. She isn't fully litter trained so I will have to work with her on that, but that's not a problem.




Lastly, is Pancake. She's a two-year-old Mini Lop. She had a husbun that recently died and she's showing signs of wanting another friend. She is shy at first but will warm up very quickly. They don't know anything about her past.




Below is a picture of the cage I built. The picture isn't the best quality, I'm sorry about that.




I think that's it for know. Please let me know if you enjoyed this and if I should continue adding to it!


----------



## A & B (May 5, 2019)

Here's some pictures of a badly molting Bugs using his (destroyed) willow basket as a pillow:


----------



## A & B (May 7, 2019)

I can't be the only one with a rabbit that absolutely loves relaxing on the air vent!


----------



## A & B (May 8, 2019)

I doubt anyone cares about this blog, but I'm going to continue adding to it anyway.

A (very exciting) update on the new bun: Yesterday, I found out that the next Friday (5/17), we will be meeting the bunnies and bringing one home! We will be driving the 1 and a half hour trip to the meeting location, and I hope Bugs is okay with the 3 hour round trip car ride, especially with the new bun in the carrier with him on the way back. He isn't too stressed during car rides as some bunnies can be, but he still doesn't enjoy them. This will be the longest car ride he's ever been on. I'm worried he's going to get stressed with the whole day of events with the long car ride and the actual meeting of the bunnies though.


----------



## Augustus&HazelGrace (May 8, 2019)

I care!!!! I read it every day.


----------



## thelaurelcrowned (May 9, 2019)

I love reading your little bunny blog! I’m especially excited to read about how the ‘bunny dates’ go and all about that process!


----------



## JBun (May 9, 2019)

Alyssa and Bugs♡ said:


> I can't be the only one with a rabbit that absolutely loves relaxing on the air vent!View attachment 40752
> View attachment 40753



I had a bun that loved to lay on the center console in the car with the AC blowing right on her.

I'm excited to see what bun you end up coming home with. I'm thinking the little harlequin.


----------



## A & B (May 9, 2019)

My parents and siblings both are in love with the mini rex. I told my parents her story and they both told me she's the one that fits our lifestyle best. She's so young and has been through so much and deserves a home with people that are going to show her love. They all do though. I wish I could take them all! A quad of bunnies does sound pretty fun! I'm really happy I chose to adopt this time. That alone has me excited! I hope Bugs and I choose the right one and that Bugs actually behaves there. Bugs knows he can get whatever he wants out of me (how can you say no to bunny kisses?) and if he doesn't like a girl, he will make sure I know. I mean, he wanted attention so bad that he came up behind me and bit me. When I asked him to not do that he came up and nipped my hand and stuck his head under and lay down. When I stopped petting him to resume typing, he started digging at my blankets and he pushed my phone off my bed. Then, he jumped off the bed and tried to throw a hanger. It failed and fell on him and it was around his head (I want to clarify that he was not stuck or panicking while the hanger was on his head). He got it off by throwing it.

@JBun do you think the Mini Rex has any permanent damage in her ears? If so, how will it affect her? If it's fear, I can definitely help her get around that but I don't want to hurt her.


----------



## JBun (May 9, 2019)

The rescue is just presuming that's why she is head shy, but there's really no definitive way to say one way or the other. Though it is possible, there are other possibilities as well such as possibly being nipped by other rabbits, or maybe she just has sensitive ears. So no need to jump to any conclusions or think that there is any ear damage. But let's just say that if she had been picked up by the ears and that's why she is head shy, if there were any significant damage then you would likely see that reflected in how she carried and used her ears. So if she has them upright like normal and can also turn and use them normally, then it's likely no damage would have occurred.

As for how to treat her, just like other buns. Gain her trust and gradually she may no longer be nervous about being touched around her ears. Or if she is just sensitive there, she may never like her ears being handled.


----------



## Sissy (May 10, 2019)

Beautiful bunnies! I look forward to hearing all about the bunny dates.


----------



## A & B (May 11, 2019)

Here's a picture of Bugs trying to get some of my sparkling water. None was consumed by him. Sorry he's a bit blurry, he wouldn't stop moving


----------



## A & B (May 13, 2019)

Rant of the day:

It already takes me hours to get ready for the day, and with a bunny that loves to do anything I ask him not to do, it's hard to make sure I leave in time. My phone and charger are both broken (and chewed) so if my phone is bumped slightly, it stops charging. I woke up to an almost dead phone battery so I was already mad because I knew it won't be charged much by the time I had to leave. Did I mention I got 4-5 hours of sleep last night? I had too much homework I needed to get done that I procrastinated all weekend. Bugs decided that he likes to pee on my bed again, so I had to wash my sheets yesterday. I used spare sheets last night and I gave Bugs my sheets to play in and get his scent on them to make sure he doesn't pee on them again. When he was playing in it, he peed on it again! I will have to wash them later and pray he doesn't do it again. Then, I had to rinse his water bowl out and I spilled water on the kitchen floor and had to clean that up. I also discovered a spot in the new bunny's cage that isn't as sturdy as I would like it to be so I have to fix that by Friday. I had to set my phone on the floor to let it charge that way and Bugs's little cute butt bumped it when he flopped right onto the cord and it has no battery currently. Bugs is also molting very bad on his head and it looks very interesting, to say the least. I wish he would have started molted after the dates, but it isn't that big of a deal. There are about 5 days until the dates so I'm hopeful that his head fur will look a bit better by then. There's fur everywhere! Here's a picture of his crazy fur:


----------



## Velveteen Lop (May 13, 2019)

I love your blog Alyssa! Can't wait to hear about the new bunny dates! 
Buns can be difficult sometimes, can't they? But the best part is when you're busy doing homework, or on the computer, or reading a book, and they come up to you, and flop right next to you. It makes up for those rough days.


----------



## A & B (May 13, 2019)

Our bunnies are impossible to be mad at. When I wake up to him sleeping peacefully at the end of my bed, it really is worth the little moments like this morning when he frustrated me. It's not like he meant to pee in my sheets. He was just having fun. Now that I think about it, I think he may have peed on my sheets because he was mad that I put him in his cage and shut it while I painted my walls and hung things up. He doesn't get that I was doing it for his safety. If that was the reason he did it, that's funny to me. He knows how to get what he wants. At least he wasn't chewing on the cage bars to get out. He will have to be in his cage for 12 hours so the new bunny also gets playtime starting next week after she settles in. He has free roam of my bedroom so it's weird for him to be locked in there.


----------



## A & B (May 14, 2019)

Nothing makes me happier than seeing Bugs chewing away at an old toy that he hasn't touched for months. It gives me hope that all of the toys he hates (which is most of them) will be played with at some point.


----------



## A & B (May 14, 2019)

Adding hay to any toy automatically makes it better! Bugs is going crazy and chewing all of his toys now! I'm glad he took a break from eating my stuff


----------



## Imbrium (May 15, 2019)

OMFG, that little harlequin!! WANT! Something about that sweet, tiny little nose. She is just too gorgeous. I'm scared if I show husband, he's going to want to drive to Iowa to get her, lol. Her bone structure looks JUST like Harley Quinn - that sweet little nose (and ocean blue eyes) are the reason we now have four rabbits after I repeatedly said "absolutely not."



Alyssa and Bugs♡ said:


> Rant of the day:
> 
> It already takes me hours to get ready for the day, and with a bunny that loves to do anything I ask him not to do, it's hard to make sure I leave in time. My phone and charger are both broken (and chewed) so if my phone is bumped slightly, it stops charging.


Do you have the kind of charger with a USB cord that plugs into an outlet thingy? I assume they've got Dollar Trees in Iowa... you can get a new cord for $1. Many times, at least with Android phones, it's NOT actually the phone that's the reason the charger has to be "just so"/at a specific angle, etc. or else it stops charging - it's because the two little prongs on the back of the part of the charge cord that you stick into the phone have broken off. It's late and I've been in the wine, so I'm not explaining it that well, lol... but I'm telling you, a lot of charging issues can be remedied for $1.

I can't wait to see who Bugs picks and hear all about the bonding! (Seriously, if it isn't the little harlequin, send her to me. I can do five for that face, hehe.)


----------



## A & B (May 15, 2019)

I will tell Bugs that he better like her! Her face shape is very unique and those ears are massive! She seems like the one for me, but it's up to Bugs to decide if she's really the one. I'm in love with bunny couples that look completely different so she would be perfect! She's also been there for a year+, making her one of the longest staying rabbits at the rescue. I'm so excited! I also found a way to make the cage more secure so I will be doing that tonight. I'm working tomorrow so today is my last day to get everything completely ready. 

I will have to get a new cord before I go insane! 

If we don't get her, I will definitely send her to you haha. I'm crossing my fingers that he likes her!


----------



## A & B (May 16, 2019)

Last night was a rough one for Bugs and I. 

He has these nights about every few months or so when he goes crazy with digging and chewing. Every 30 minutes to an hour, I would be woken up to him digging at me or the spot next to me. I would pet his head, which usually gets him to calm down, but it didn't. Upon waking up, I realized he peed on my pillow. Last night before I fell asleep, we had snuggle time (which he enjoys) and we both fell asleep. I'm a very light sleeper and this drove me nuts all night. Whenever he does it, it is usually done in his cage so it doesn't bother me. I tried to push the stool he uses to get on my bed away and see if that kept him off, but he can apparently jump onto my bed without the stool.

Has anyone ever experienced this?


----------



## Imbrium (May 16, 2019)

Our rabbits don't have free roam at night, but sometimes we have "one of those nights" with the darn cats... going berserk, crying all night if you lock them out of the room for going berserk...

One time, we did fall asleep with Layne (RIP, little guy) in the room, thinking he'd be a reasonably good bunny while we took a nap. Not so much! I think he may have actually started on my desk (one end of which was up against the bed by my pillow... but anyway, he managed to jump in a way where he landed on my head/face and then jumped onto my husband's head/face all in one move! That's why we have a "no loose bunnies when we're both sleeping" policy.


----------



## A & B (May 17, 2019)

Today is the big day!

Last night, I adjusted the cages so the top level is sturdier. I also cleaned up and got the main carrier and the backup carrier ready. Bugs got half of his daily pellet ratio earlier and will get the rest in the car. He also gets his dinner (veggies) around the time we are leaving so he will have those in the car also. He also allowed me to sleep a bit last night. When my alarm went off earlier, he jumped into my bed and gave me kisses and we snuggled for a while.

I've been talking to Bugs and explaining what's going to happen tonight and then for the rest of his life. I read that it apparently helps him to understand, prepare, and adjust to the changes. Is this true? Can bunnies actually hear and know/understand what we're saying?

I also taught Bugs the words pellets, vegetables, fresh hay, breakfast, dinner, treat, up, down, and we are working on spin. I accidentally taught him some of those, just by saying pellets during pellet time, vegetables during vegetable time, etc. I believe it has something to do with how when I talk to him, I use a different voice than when I'm talking to someone. When my sister and I are talking in my bedroom I will be talking in my normal voice and then switch to my bunny voice and he knows I'm talking to him directly and will stand and look at me. It's really amazing how smart and observant our bunnies are. They deserve much more credit then what some people give them.


----------



## A & B (May 17, 2019)

We're in the car. There's still 25 minutes until we're there, but Bugs doesn't seem too stressed. He's been munching away on hay the whole time. He's relaxing and staring at me now. I'm so excited! Expect a post with all the pictures I get later, along with an update on our bun choice!


----------



## A & B (May 17, 2019)

I'm happy to inform you all that I now have 2 rabbits. 

Her name is Lola (because it goes with Bugs). It was originally Willow. We actually weren't planning on meeting her, but they decided they would have her there just as a backup plan. Bugs met all 3 girls we were planning on meeting, and he didn't like any of them. He got into a bunny tornado (not sure if that's the right term) with one, humped one, and just didn't seem to like the other. Bugs walked right up to our girl and kissed her ear. I tried force snuggling the two and we knew they were meant to be. 

She's a one year old Mini Lop and is an ex breeder bunny. 

They are actually snuggling in the car and no signs of aggression at all. She's scared and he is laying next to her and throwing hay on her. Bugs is moving around the carrier and she's staying in the corner but Bugs keeps sitting next to her when he's done eating his piece of hay. I'll attach a ton of pictures, some are blurry because I'm in the car. I believe this bond will take a couple weeks at the most. 

She's not used to pellets and I'm not sure about veggies so I will begin gradually introducing those. Should I introduce pellets or veggies first? I feel like veggies will be beneficial during the bonding process so I would like to introduce them first but I need confirmation on that.


----------



## A & B (May 17, 2019)

Here's the pictures of the two:


----------



## A & B (May 18, 2019)

I know I've been adding a lot of stuff to my blog, so I apologize for that. 

We've had the first couple bonding sessions. We had one earlier at 8 and another at 11. There have been no fights and there has actually been grooming. In the first session, I used a large laundry basket. They seemed very nervous and there was a bit of humping from Bugs. Lola doesn't seem to mind him humping her as she sits there and takes it. Bugs has been sitting on her and putting his paws on her and I'm not sure if it's a dominance thing or just a bunny thing. Either way, she doesn't mind it. 

The second session went well also. They were definitely calmer during this one and munched on the veggies I provided. Bugs went all for the veggies but Lola was a bit more hesitant. She eventually took a bite, which is a good sign. I was going to slide the storage tote they were in over a bit but they freaked out. Lola was in Bug's way so he nipped her side. It wasn't aggressive, it was more like him saying excuse me. I forced snuggled the two just in case they were upset about that situation. Right before I was going to put them in their carriers to go back to my room, Bugs groomed Lola's head! I had wiped some banana on both of them. He did it for probably 20-30 seconds. 

They are already making this an easy process. I actually think it may be love at first sight but I don't want to rush into it. When the sessions are done, they both seem to look for each other. They run around looking.

I'll attach some pictures I got during both sessions. You can see that Lola stays in the same spot while Bugs is the one that moves around. For the most part, they just sit and kind of snuggle.


----------



## My Bunny Drake (May 18, 2019)

Awwww... I love Mini Lops


----------



## JBun (May 18, 2019)

Yay!!! I'm so happy he found a friend he likes. She's such a cutie! I'm so happy for you and Bugs. She looks young. Did they say how old she was?

Sometimes it's better to not go too fast, but there are instances when it's love at first sight and you can't go fast enough for the bunnies, as they just want to be together and stay together. If she seems to be calm and comfortable with him around, she wants to snuggle into him a lot, and if she is looking for him and seems like she wants him back when you separate, then I would be inclined to fast forward the process. I would put them together one day for several hours, closely monitoring their behavior. And if they both seemed content and happy to be together, I would probably just switch to the fast track method of bonding where you keep them together until bonded, closely supervised for the first 24-48 hours, until you are sure they are settled and fine together. Especially since she's in a new place and uncertain, if being near him brings her comfort and helps her feel safe, then it will actually help them bond faster and more easily. I had a love at first sight bond like that, where I pretty much put them together and could see they were perfectly happy with each other, so I just kept them together. Easiest bond I ever did.

Though if she seems at all uncertain about him, bothered by the humping or him being dominant, or nervous at all around him, then I would take it slow.


----------



## Sissy (May 18, 2019)

You sound like you're just wonderful with your rabbits, Alyssa. Hope all continues to go well.


----------



## A & B (May 18, 2019)

JBun said:


> Yay!!! I'm so happy he found a friend he likes. She's such a cutie! I'm so happy for you and Bugs. She looks young. Did they say how old she was?
> 
> Sometimes it's better to not go too fast, but there are instances when it's love at first sight and you can't go fast enough for the bunnies, as they just want to be together and stay together. If she seems to be calm and comfortable with him around, she wants to snuggle into him a lot, and if she is looking for him and seems like she wants him back when you separate, then I would be inclined to fast forward the process. I would put them together one day for several hours, closely monitoring their behavior. And if they both seemed content and happy to be together, I would probably just switch to the fast track method of bonding where you keep them together until bonded, closely supervised for the first 24-48 hours, until you are sure they are settled and fine together. Especially since she's in a new place and uncertain, if being near him brings her comfort and helps her feel safe, then it will actually help them bond faster and more easily. I had a love at first sight bond like that, where I pretty much put them together and could see they were perfectly happy with each other, so I just kept them together. Easiest bond I ever did.
> 
> Though if she seems at all uncertain about him, bothered by the humping or him being dominant, or nervous at all around him, then I would take it slow.


She's around 2-3. I've heard from the owner of the rescue that she's 3, and the volunteer holding the dates said she's 2. I'm going with 3 because that's also what was on her profile. 

I'm not sure it's love at first sight anymore. She seems a bit nervous around him so I will just take it slow. I don't want to mess up their chances of bonding. She's been here for almost 24 hours and she isn't as shy and scared as she was during the dates this morning. She's not leaning to him for comfort. After reading your message, I felt confident they would be okay in a larger space. I put them in the hallway and set them both on opposite sides. They both walked up to each other then, (I'm not sure who) one nipped the other. The one who got nipped tried to nip back but I stuck my hand in the middle. Should I have let them nip at each other? I felt it was going to escalate into a fight as they both seemed angry so I then put them in the laundry basket. I put banana on their heads and Bugs licked hers off. They seemed ready for a slightly larger space as they were both just sitting next to each other so I put them into the bathtub. They both were sitting on opposite ends of the tub just staring at each other. I slid them closer for force snuggling. Lola put her head down and asked to be groomed. When Bugs didn't groom her, she got annoyed and nipped at his butt. He tried to hump her face (obviously, I pushed him off). I forced snuggled the two and decided that it was a good time to stop. 

Bugs has also been using Lola as a step stool to look over the sides of the laundry basket. He puts his paws on her and she doesn't seem to mind. Bugs also will shove his face under Lola's stomach when she lays down. Any idea what this means?

Lola is also out for playtime so I switched their cages. I kept them with their own litterboxes as Lola doesn't seem to eat hay. Her poop also comes out looking dry. I'm currently giving her the same amount of pellets and veggies as I do Bugs despite her being bigger s0 she is forced to eat some hay. She drinks a ton of water. So far today, I have refilled her water bowl 3 times today. She also appears to be overweight. I can't weigh her now because she doesn't like when I reach my hands into her cage to pick her up. She just boxed (?) at my hand when I tried. Her poop is also slightly smaller than Bugs's. @JBun you know everything. Any advice on bonding and her poop/not eating hay/possibly overweight situations? 

I've already noticed a change in Bugs's personality. He seems happier and is flopping a lot more.


----------



## zuppa (May 19, 2019)

Love your pictures please keep them coming! Your Lola is a beautiful girl!

Hope this bonding will go well for them just more time needed to get used to each other, and you.

When I adopted Bernie she was also overweight very pretty and very fat girl, she was left alone in her hutch for most days as kids lost interest in her and both parents were working so she was getting a very little attention and people were trying to compensate attention with treats so she's got a lot of fruit, I've seen photo of her with full apple or a large carrot or orange, she loves food and it is very satisfying to watch her eating she's looking so happy! They gave me her bowl and a bag of her pellets too and her bowl was rather large I gave her twice smaller so she got less pellets and I cut her on vegs / fruit too, piece of carrot only once a week, I gave her celery stick per day or kale or dark leaves, but not unlimited. So she was mostly on hay, she loves hay, I let her out when I was home I put fireguard panels all around my normal living space so I was in the large playpen with her too and she became more active little by little, I gave her a hiding box she couldn't even jump on it at the beginning, but now she has no problem jumping I just gave her a bit of motivation to exercise like putting vegs on the roof of her house then changing her house to a bigger one, step by step. 

She also drunk a plenty of water, about 300 ml daily from her large bottle, she still drinks a lot, more than my other lop girl, but her poop is great as she eats lots of hay.

She didn't like me to place hand into her cage firstly too, she lunged at me! I took her on my lap and brushed her coat every night she was a bit nervous at the beginning but after 15-20 minutes was more relaxed and in a couple days she started licking my hands and neck when I took her, she loves being brushed maybe your Lola didn't have much interaction and physical contact with a human as she was a breeding doe maybe staying in her cage alone lots of time, maybe she'll like it and will trust you more, it worked with all my rabbits, even Fred was so like frozen first week he was left on street in cardboard box and people found him and kept in a shed for a week as they have dogs so when I've got him he was so uptied brushing him really helped he's so happy now.

I don't have much experience bonding rabbits but am quite good at gaining their trust and I think your Lola has not only Bugs but you are a new person for her too. Maybe I am wrong speaking only from my own experience maybe if you take her regularly and groom her she'll feel more comfortable and relaxed.



Alyssa and Bugs♡ said:


> Lola doesn't seem to eat hay. Her poop also comes out looking dry. I'm currently giving her the same amount of pellets and veggies as I do Bugs despite her being bigger s0 she is forced to eat some hay. She drinks a ton of water. So far today, I have refilled her water bowl 3 times today. She also appears to be overweight. I can't weigh her now because she doesn't like when I reach my hands into her cage to pick her up. She just boxed (?) at my hand when I tried. Her poop is also slightly smaller than Bugs's.
> I've already noticed a change in Bugs's personality. He seems happier and is flopping a lot more.


----------



## A & B (May 19, 2019)

We had another bonding session today. This one went decent as they seem to be establishing their relationship more. It seems that Lola is trying to tell Bugs that I'm a threat as they were just sitting there so I was going to give them a treat. I said Bug's name and he started walking towards me and she nipped his side. He went right back to sitting with her. There was an incident where Bugs went to lick leftover banana off her head and she nipped his cheek. He then nipped her side and they just sat down next to each other. I'm glad they didn't fight. I know you're supposed to let them fight as long as there isn't blood or it doesn't escalate but it makes me nervous which makes them nervous. I bought a spray bottle today and whenever one nips the other, they will get sprayed. I wasn't going to use a spray bottle but I think it may work with their nipping.


----------



## JBun (May 19, 2019)

A little nip here and there is normal, but you don't want it to continue or escalate, so yes you do want to discourage or stop it by distracting them. So you did the right thing.

Maybe by shoving his head under her he is hoping he will be groomed by her. My rabbits will shove their head next to another rabbit that is busy grooming themselves, in hopes that the rabbit will then start grooming them. So maybe it's similar to that.

Don't worry about the overweight thing for now. You just need to give her some time to get settled in.

She's not telling Bugs you're a threat. She was telling him not to leave. They are working out who is going to be the boss, so there is going to be some minor nipping as they work things out. But you also need to establish yourself as the top bun so she isn't thinking she can boss you around.

You aren't supposed to let them fight, ever. Fighting is circling, tails raised, biting, latching on with teeth, sometimes ears back, and you never want a fight to break out as bonding becomes less likely after that's happened. Nipping is not fighting. It's how a dominant rabbit communicates with subordinate rabbits, like don't do that, move out of my way, etc. Some nipping is going to have to happen as they need to work out their relationship and their pecking order. A spray bottle should only be used if it seems like the best tool to stop a fight from breaking out, not just when minor nipping is going on. And even then I would only use the spray bottle if using a broom or my protected hand didn't work as well in breaking things up.
https://www.cottontails-rescue.org.uk/information/aggressive-rabbits/
http://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Bonding_rabbits_together
https://www.cottontails-rescue.org.uk/information/bonding-bunnies/


----------



## A & B (May 19, 2019)

She seems to be very nervous around him. He will move slightly and she will get scared. After he moves she will walk up to him and he will try and sniff her then Lola will nip his face out of nowhere! They got into a little scuffle and she pulled some of his face furs out. They both grunted a few times also. They actually resolved the issue themselves and I didn't have to put my hand in the way. They seem to be taking turns with being comfortable during the session. Bugs will seem comfortable and munch on some veggies, then a few seconds later Lola will lay down and relax while Bugs breathes heavy. They both groomed themselves during the session I had a little bit ago. Lola groomed herself first while Bugs sat in the corner. I put banana on his paw and he licked that off then he stared fully grooming himself! Towards the end of the session, I put them next to each other and I pet them both. My sister put her hand in the middle and slowly slid her hand away as I felt they may nip each other's faces. I decided that was a good stopping point. That session seemed to be the most successful as they really seemed to be working out their issues and establishing the roles in the relationship. I had to clean the cages and so I put them in separate carriers facing each other after the session. They both fell asleep facing each other. They couldn't reach each other, especially because they were on my bed (which is 100% Bugs's territory as she hasn't been up there yet).

They both didn't sit still the whole time this session. It seems that getting them both to be comfortable and getting them to consistently groom each other without using banana will be the biggest problems, but every session they get more comfortable. At first, they would both shake very hard. Now, they only shake after one gets nipped.

How do I establish myself as the top bun?

They aren't fighting then. It's more like a nip or two that will have some following around each other. It's pretty hard to describe. They both are nipping each other, but Bugs is the only one that has humped. That was during the very first session and hasn't happened since.

In this video, her bunnies get into a couple of scuffs (Timestamp 1:44 and about 2:40). This is very similar to what my two are doing while grunting. (Her bunnies are also named Bugs and Lola  )


----------



## A & B (May 19, 2019)

Here's some pictures I got of my latest session. Looking at the pictures, I realize I shouldn't have put the wet veggies in the middle of them. I unfortunately didn't get pictures of Lola grooming herself.


----------



## A & B (May 20, 2019)

I thought I'd add something here that isn't bonding related. Lola is doing incredibly well with bonding to me. She still doesn't like my hands in the cage so I don't reach in there while she's in there, but she will take a treat from my hand as long as the cage is between her and my hand, and even took one while she was having playtime in my room! I have realized some interesting things about her personality that are very different from Bugs. She will sleep wherever in her cage but hasn't slept outside of it yet. Bugs is a big fan of the air vent and she gets terrified of it! She also likes to chew on wooden toys while Bugs usually likes the ones he can throw. Lola doesn't like banana! I've never heard of a rabbit not liking it! She also figured out how to jump on my bed and now she won't stay off! I'm worried Bugs will pee on the bed to mark it as his because her scent is on it. She hates herbs but loves hay cubes. I haven't seen her binky, but she flops all over her cage. She had a couple of hours of playtime yesterday because she seemed to want out of the cage for something other than bonding. She likes to crawl into every spot she can get to! She licked my hand while I was refilling her water and it shocked me! 

Now onto some bonding things. Bugs seems really into her! She just thinks he's annoying. Going off dog (or rabbit) years, she's 21 while he's 7. I can't stand being around 7-year-olds so I can see where she's coming from. I think I may try videotaping a session for you guys to see as it would be easier for you to see their behavior and how I react to everything, but only if that's something you're interested in seeing.


----------



## Imbrium (May 20, 2019)

Alyssa and Bugs♡ said:


> I've been talking to Bugs and explaining what's going to happen tonight and then for the rest of his life. I read that it apparently helps him to understand, prepare, and adjust to the changes. Is this true? Can bunnies actually hear and know/understand what we're saying?


Some more than others, but definitely yes in my experience. Obviously, they don't know every word, but between picking up a few words, body language and tone of voice, I feel like they get the basic gist of most stuff being said directly to them. I can't even begin to count the times Nala has given incredibly appropriate direct reactions to things Jay and/or I have just said to her, lol.



Alyssa and Bugs♡ said:


> I know I've been adding a lot of stuff to my blog, so I apologize for that.


Isn't that exactly what blogs are for? 



Alyssa and Bugs♡ said:


> I thought I'd add something here that isn't bonding related. Lola is doing incredibly well with bonding to me. She still doesn't like my hands in the cage so I don't reach in there while she's in there, but she will take a treat from my hand as long as the cage is between her and my hand, and even took one while she was having playtime in my room!


First off, she is stupid cute. Like, punch-yourself-in-the-face adorable. Secondly, does she attack your hand when you put it in the cage (lunge/box, etc.)? You mentioned she's probably around 3 and a former breeding doe, which means she would've gone unspayed long enough for some of those hormonal behaviors to become learned and therefore persist longer than the usual 4-6 weeks post spay.

Don't take the attacks personally... and there's a good chance they'll fade as you gain her trust and she adjusts to her new environment. It took Alice a little while after her later-in-life spay (at around 4 years old) to stop trying to attack my hand when it entered her cage. Sometimes I would even see her start to lunge out of habit and stop herself.


----------



## A & B (May 21, 2019)

Imbrium said:


> Isn't that exactly what blogs are for?


I guess, but for people who don't check every day, it could be a lot to read and catch up on 

She is so cute, especially when she flops! She's a big girl! She has only boxed at my hand once, but always runs into her box when I have to stick my hand in there for any reason. I know with time, her behavior may go away. She's getting more and more comfortable with me every day. 

I had two bonding sessions since the last session I updated you about. The first one is the one I had last night and the second is earlier this morning. 

Last night, the session left me with mixed feelings about bonding and I was very upset after. The session started well, with snuggling and a kiss or two from Bugs. In a matter of seconds, one nipped the other and the nipp_ee _was running from the nipp_er. _I'm not sure who started it, but it freaked me out because they were in a small laundry basket. I think it may have been Lola because Bugs didn't groom her when she asked. I also struggled to get my hand in between them, which resulted in me lifting Bugs up and out of the basket because I thought it was an actual fight and didn't want it to escalate. Now looking back on the footage I managed to get of the "fight", I believe it was just a scuff. I also got scared so that may have made the situation worse. I didn't handle it how I would have liked to, but I believed it was a fight and treated it as such. I'm glad it wasn't the other way around, with it being a fight and I treated it like a scuff. I wanted to end the session, but I make it a point to end the session on a good note. I put them in a different laundry basket and had my sister put her protected hand in between their faces. I slid Lola over towards Bugs and made them snuggle. My sister slowly removed her hand and I just pet them both. Bugs actually pushed his head against her dewlap/neck and relaxed and I believe this helped make this session earlier today very successful. This seemed like a good stopping point, especially because I was not enjoying it. This session lasted 5-6 minutes. I have a couple of pictures of the snuggling after the scuff.

This session was the best one we've had so far. I feel like I say that most of the time but this was the longest session and the cherry on top was that there was no nipping at all. I was way more relaxed during this one. I used the same laundry basket I used last night during the scuff, and to say the least, I wasn't hopeful that it was going to go well. There were some issues I realized during this session, but those will be easy to solve. I will explain those later. I put Lola in first because she's harder to pick up and set in the basket. I don't want Bugs to claim it as his territory while I try to get her in so this works for us. I had some cilantro and romaine, along with a banana. I started by rubbing a bit of banana on both of their heads. They didn't move a lot at first but then Bugs licked the banana off Lola's head. I expected him to eat it and be done, but even after he ate the banana he started grooming her head. He then licked her ears and even her back! This went on for probably 5 minutes and he was really into it. I was tearing up at this point because last night, I was thinking about how I may have to exchange her. Lola was so relaxed and was enjoying it. Usually, she is wide-eyed and breathing hard but this time, she was laying down with her eyes half closed and her breathing was very slow. I got a ton of pictures and I felt confident enough that they weren't going to fight that I took the oven mitt off my hand. Lola doesn't groom Bugs and I can tell that annoys him. When he would get frustrated, I would pet his head and he would go back to grooming her. Lola also hates banana and I have no idea what I could rub on his head that she would want to lick off. The bunnies were put back into their carriers and because I had to clean the cages and I don't want to scare Lola, I put them in their carriers and faced them towards each other with about 6 inches between them. They were both trying to get out and it appeared they wanted to see each other. For Lola, this is definitely a change in her behavior as she always seems wary around him and most certainly doesn't want to see him when she has the choice 

I've read that with bunny bonding, there are usually a few steps followed by a couple backward, and these last few sessions are a prime example of this. There was first grooming themselves in each other's presence, then there was the scuff last night, then there was full on grooming from Bugs! I will use the laundry basket for the next few sessions and then move on to a larger area when they seem ready unless you guys recommend we move to a larger area for the next session. 

There will be pictures in the next post. The first couple are from the session last night after the scuff. You can see a huge change in their body language from past pictures and the ones from earlier.


----------



## April LD (May 21, 2019)

I had a love at first sight bond as well. We took it slow, my male, Binks, was all into grooming her and she, not so much. The rescue told me that this could be an issue, and that at some point he will want to be groomed too, and to watch for nipping and humping. He did nip, mostly humped. It took 7 days to completely bond them/have their first overnight in the same cage. Give her time, don't worry about putting something on bugs to get her to groom...she will eventually groom him. And it may be like my buns, Binks grooms more often than Mrs. Bon-Bons does. But Binks was a grooming type already...so it worked fine. I think you are doing well, try not to get too anxious, they feel it and it can cause issue where there are none. I wouldn't probably give them too much room - a whole hallway may be too big. Maybe if your bathroom is small you can go in there for a bit first, see how it goes, then after a time or two in there, try the hall again. But keep doing what you are doing - sounds like they will get there. Be patient, be calm, and it will be ok.


----------



## mizunodaddy (May 21, 2019)

I care about your blog!


----------



## mizunodaddy (May 21, 2019)

Alyssa and Bugs♡ said:


> Our bunnies are impossible to be mad at. When I wake up to him sleeping peacefully at the end of my bed, ...


I so envy you being able to stay on the same terrain... i have problems with sleep due to heart condition, so i have to create special conditions to make sure no one will interfere, and thus we inhabit different rooms with my bun... nevertheless he likes to browse about my sleeping den when i forget to close the door and sometimes devices go wireless, unexpectedly... during the day, however, we share a common room where i have my workstation where sometimes devices go wireless, too... some computer mice and a keyboard died this way...


----------



## mizunodaddy (May 21, 2019)

Alyssa and Bugs♡ said:


> Lola also hates banana and I have no idea what I could rub on his head that she would want to lick off. .


Maybe she would like mango.
My bunny is crazy about mango and pineapple, in any form.


----------



## Imbrium (May 22, 2019)

To be completely honest with you... You will make some mistakes during bonding, especially when new to it, but even as a seasoned bonder sometimes you try something and it just doesn't work. The great news here is that mistakes can be undone... And that with patience and understanding, there are very few rabbit pairings that simply won't work no matter how hard you try.

I made a happy blog post tonight where I finally made some progress forming a quad... After having inadvertently made some mistakes that I probably couldn't have seen coming anyway when trying to introduce Alice to other rabbits.

Bonding inherently involves trial and error. Don't let the setbacks discourage you and don't beat yourself up over mistakes.

You are right to feel that it's better to treat a minor scuffle as a fight than think that a fight is only a minor scuffle. To some extent, you need to let rabbits work things out for themselves... But I have never thought that it was worth risking a serious fight to achieve this.

As for rubbing something on the head to achieve mutual grooming... This may come as a surprise but in all my years of rabbits, I have never once even attempted this technique. I think it is unnecessary and they will come around to groom each other on their own without needing to be tricked into it. While some rabbits do request grooming quite frequently (case in point, Alice tonight)... they also understand to some degree when their requests go ignored. It's another thing that I believe it's best to let them work out for themselves.

Don't get discouraged and embrace the fact that you're learning as much as your rabbits are about this process.


----------



## A & B (May 22, 2019)

Imbrium said:


> I made a happy blog post tonight where I finally made some progress forming a quad... After having inadvertently made some mistakes that I probably couldn't have seen coming anyway when trying to introduce Alice to other rabbits.


I think it's amazing that you are bonding a quad! I will go and read that in just a second.

I do think that I'm too involved during the process, but it's hard not to be. I don't want to see either of them hurt and I can't risk a fight that causes them to not bond. I thought about everything but the emotional aspects of getting Bugs a friend. I am already so attached to her and I don't think I could swap her out if they don't bond.

Today, I tried to step back a bit. I didn't put anything on their heads and I had my phone so I could have something to do instead of watching them like a hawk. It seems that Bugs is obsessing over grooming her. He started by licking her head then her ears, then he started licking her eye area and the inside of her ear. I was going to pull him away but then I remembered that she needs to be the one to ask him to stop. She pulled away and lowered her head again. He instead went to her other eye (at this point, he has his paws on her and was leaning over to her eye) and was licking away. She didn't pull away this time and he was then licking all down her back. He got to her tail and she nipped him. He lowered his head to her and when she didn't groom him, he nipped her. They got into a scuff and I waited a few seconds to see if they would stop on their own but they didn't. I put my hand in between them and they both nipped each other's butts. It seemed similar to when we have an argument and as we are walking away, we yell something back at the person. Bugs's behavior kind of seems like OCD to me because he _has_ to groom her and won't stop until Lola or I do something, but I believe rabbits can't have that. Can someone confirm? I force snuggled the two and ended the session there.

I was kind of trying to "fake it until they made it". It seems to have worked-- too well-- for Bugs, but not so much for her. I know some rabbits aren't big groomers, but I would like to see it from her at least once.

I really appreciate all of your help. Perhaps you could get a video of your bonding session so I could see how you handle everything?

Getting Lola into her carrier is stressful for me and her and so I think that has an impact on the bonding because she's already stressed. Any ideas on how to help her stress levels?


----------



## A & B (May 22, 2019)

Here's the pictures I meant to post yesterday 

The last two are after the session when their carriers were facing each other. They both seemed to want to see each other. The bar chewing was stopped of course View attachment 40967


----------



## Imbrium (May 22, 2019)

It isn't uncommon for grooming to be mostly one-sided in a bonded pair, so don't worry too much about her not grooming him back. Are you still doing their sessions in the laundry basket? That's a great way to start, but once they're through the first couple sessions, you need to give them more space. An x-pen is a great size to move to (or a bathroom, walk-in closet or even a very small room if you don't have a spare x-pen) - something big enough for a small litter box and some food but small enough to still encourage interactions.

Rabbits may well be capable of OCD or something similar - I've seen compulsive and/or anxious behavior in various animals over my lifetime (like large birds who pull out their own feathers, cats who over-groom themselves, etc.). However, having more space and something else to do (like some hay or veggies to munch together or even a neutral-smelling toy or two) may very well curb his obsessive behavior. He could just be excited and energetic and the basket allows him no outlet for it other than grooming her like crazy. A larger space emulates their eventual habitat a bit better - when they're fully bonded and living together, they're not going to be bootie to bootie in a small space 24/7; they'll be able to come and go as they please and get a little space if they get annoyed with the other rabbit. In the basket, if grooming goes on too long, nipping is the only thing Lola can do to tell him to stop.


----------



## A & B (May 22, 2019)

I did a few sessions in the area between our pantry/laundry room and fridge, but they weren't really interacting so I put them back into the laundry basket. I do agree that they need more space now. I think I may try the bathtub today. I want to have a session that lasts as long as time allows if they are doing good because I don't have work tonight. I may try taking them to the pet store this weekend if they seem ready for it and if my mom is willing to take us. They need some new toys anyway. I think I may disassemble the cages and set the pens up next to each other so Lola gets more comfortable in his presence. Can they have a litterbox in the bonding area? 

I will bring a toy that they both like, along with some lettuce. I also could block off an area in my hallway too. That may be better because when I had a session in the tub, Bugs could jump out. It also gets crowded in there and I want to be relaxed also. She doesn't eat or even move during the sessions. I thought that after a few sessions, she would be more comfortable and move around. We've had 8-9 sessions and she still sits still. 

He is so energetic that the laundry basket created issues because she doesn't like him jumping everywhere and she takes up probably half of the basket so she would nip him to make him sit still and that made him mad. 

Any tips on getting her to move around? I'm worried that when they're bonded and she wants to move around more, she may decide she doesn't like being the submissive one. Will nipping happen when they're bonded and living together?


----------



## JBun (May 22, 2019)

Sure there are rabbits that can seem obsessive about things like grooming. My little rabbit group that consists of a mom and her grown babies, one of the boys Toby(RIP), used to somewhat obsessively like to groom his brothers, sisters, and mom. And he was actually the boss of the group. Sometimes he would kind of lay his head or front paws on top of them to make them hold still so he could groom them. Most of them didn't mind a bit as they love being groomed. Some would groom in return, some wouldn't, but he didn't care if they didn't. All he cared about was them letting him groom them.

Sometimes when Bugs grooms her and she doesn't in return, you can interfere and do the grooming for her so that he feels like he got something in return. Though at some point eventually, they are going to have to work it out on their own, but you intervening and doing the grooming for her can sometimes give them the extra time they need to get to know one another better and work it out instead of it not happening and getting fed up with him at the start. She may not ever end up being a big groomer, and that is something that he will have to learn to accept if they are going to be able to bond.

Like Imbrium said, they need more space, but not too much more. 2x2, 2x3, 3x3, or something like that, or slightly larger if you need to sit in there with them. The laundry basket is too small and you really only want to use it for short stress bonding, like when you use a carrier in the car. It shouldn't be used for longer sessions as it's too confining. You want the bonding space small enough that they can't avoid interacting with one another, but large enough that they can move around some and not just be right on top of each other. The alternative is giving them a large space and just allowing them to more gradually interact. The larger space works best for rabbits that are too reactive when they are in the smaller space, but having a larger space also means it can take a lot more time for them to get to know one another, as their time around one another is more gradual. So you would just need to decide which way seems to work best for your two.

You can put a litter box in there if one of them isn't guarding it from the other. Otherwise you would need to take it out. A litter box is especially good if they decide they want to snuggle together in it.


----------



## A & B (May 22, 2019)

Bugs also puts his paws on her to make her sit still. I suspected it was a dominance issue and I'm glad to hear it's not. I sat in the bonding area today and I feel it helped them relax. Lola actually took a treat from me during the session which is something she hasn't done yet. They both are getting more comfortable in each other's presence. 

There was some fur pulling (Bugs pulled Lola's) because Lola was guarding the litterbox and he wanted to sit in it too. I removed it and all other objects they could have tried to guard. I had in there a bowl of water, a bowl of cilantro and the litterbox. They were also doing this thing that could have been lunging, but there were no other signs of aggression. They were mad about the litterbox situation and they were trying to nip each other. I was scared (again, I didn't handle this how I would have liked to) that they were going to full-on fight and so I stuck my hand in the middle. They were also grunting. Should I have let them "figure it out"? I pushed them towards each other and offered them both a treat. With Bugs being the little foodie he is, he took the treat with no hesitation. The first time I tried to give Lola a treat, she grabbed it out of my hand and threw it. I pushed the two very close to each other and at this point, I sat in the area. Bugs started grooming Lola (without banana on her head!!!) and they did that for a while. Bugs started shoving his head under her stomach and when she didn't groom him, I pet his head. She groomed herself while he was next to her. She also shoved her face into his and it looked like she gave him a quick lick, but I'm not positive about that. This is when she took the treat. I gave them some cilantro and Bugs ate it. Lola took a little bite. I handed Bugs a piece of hay and he threw it on Lola. I was being yelled at to do some laundry so I ended the session there. This session lasted an hour and they could have gone longer which made me happy! This weekend, I'm going to have some very long sessions and keep them together until I have a reason to separate. They aren't ready to be bonded but long sessions seem to work for them. 

After the session, I put their carriers in front of each other and I fed them both their veggies. I was expecting Lola to sit there and stare at him but she started eating while watching him. She didn't seem stressed. Bugs was also eating. After a while, Bugs started to clean himself and Lola mirrored him! They have learned that if they sit on my bed, the bun out for playtime can see the one in the cage and they've been watching each other. Right now, Bugs is having playtime (he gets playtime at night and she gets hers during the day) and he just flopped on the air vent (bet you didn't see that coming  ) and she is watching him while she eats hay.

Why is it that the sessions go both good and bad? How do I get them to share the litterbox?

Pictures in next post!

Funny story: Last night (early this morning?) I woke up to hear thumping. Turns out that Lola isn't a big fan of thunderstorms and Bugs isn't a big fan of her thumping. It was 1:30 in the morning and Lola was running around her cage and thumping. She spilled her water bowl and looked terrified. It didn't help that Bugs was thumping too. I spent 15 minutes making sure my poor rabbits didn't scare themselves to death. On the bright side, it's good to know they are listening to each other's danger calls.


----------



## A & B (May 22, 2019)

These are in order from the beginning to the end of the session.


----------



## Imbrium (May 23, 2019)

It looks like your sessions are on a carpeted area? I dunno that I'd risk having no safe place to pee if they're on carpet, so rather than removing the litter box, you could try adding a second small box on the opposite side of the pen so that someone can't guard both at once.


----------



## A & B (May 23, 2019)

I'll for sure try that later!


----------



## HoneyBunnys34 (May 23, 2019)

I'm excited for that moment when they finally get bonde . Can't wait! I love reading your blog


----------



## A & B (May 23, 2019)

I just had a session and had a ton of breakthroughs, but also a ton of more issues appeared. Lola flopped during this session! She definitely seems to be more comfortable moving around lately. They absolutely hate sharing a litterbox, but they wanted to be in the one the other was in. Now it seems that Bugs is the nervous one. I think that because I was in the bonding area, he felt he had to "protect" me from her. Whenever she would approach me, he would nip her and she would nip him back and you know where it went from there. I was bitten while I was trying to get them to stop, and oh boy, it scared the living crap out of me. Should I stay out of the area next time? After Lola would flop (it happened twice), Bugs would walk up to her and sniff her head then she would grunt and jump up while nipping his him! Why is she so defensive? I believe that if she'd stay there, he would flop next to her because he loves snuggles! They also shared a piece of cilantro which was absolutely adorable! They both took turns taking bites out of my apple.

I'm still confused as to whether I should let them figure it out when they get into a scuff. I feel like if I didn't break it up, it would only get worse.

I will post pictures in the morning. I didn't get many as my phone was almost dead (I still haven't gotten that new darn charger) and all of my energy is drained. I'm preparing for finals in my advanced English class (I just majorly tooted my own horn, sorry ) and we have a huge algebra test coming up and I'm terrible at math so I just know I'm going to fail. I've also been working a lot more hours but I'm not complaining about that. The bunnies will need their 6-month checkup soon (Bugs is due for his and she has to come) and I'm preparing for that to be quite a bit of money as Lola decided she needs to have her first health scare, not even a week after she comes home. (Link to thread).


----------



## JBun (May 23, 2019)

If being in there seems to make things worse, then do consider staying out of there and just carefully using a broom to break things up if needed.

Though if you do want to sit with them, if they do things where you think one will get upset with the other, I would intervene by giving head rubs to calm the situation. Like when she was laying down and Bugs approached her, start giving head rubs to keep everyone calm. Or if Bugs is near you and she approaches, start giving head rubs. I wouldn't let Bugs behave defensively of you. I think you should intervene particularly on those occasions. Remember, you're the boss bunny, not him. So do a gentle head press, or stomp your foot, or such to let him know that you're in charge and not to do that. Though in other situations, eventually they are going to have to sort things out, but for now it might be the most helpful to keep things calm as they are sorting out their feelings.

I wouldn't let them act defensively of their litter boxes. I would put them together in the litter box and give head rubs to see if that helps or find some way to stop the defensive behavior. If I couldn't stop the defensive behavior I would remove the litter boxes.


----------



## A & B (May 24, 2019)

Here's the pictures


----------



## My Bunny Drake (May 24, 2019)

I understand how u feel with failing math. Fractions are the worst.


----------



## A & B (May 24, 2019)

I think I may try setting the x-pens up next to each other this weekend so they get used to each other's presence. 

I did end up taking the litterboxes out. They did share veggies and a bit of apple, so I know they aren't completely opposed to sharing their things. I think cage switching has been really effective. There was some territorial pooping lately, but that doesn't bother me. 

In the second picture, you can see that I got them both to sit in the same litterbox. Lola lowered her head and when Bugs didn't groom her, I gave her some pets. Bugs nipped my hand and when I pulled away, he started grooming her head! I think he was saying "enough. It's my turn now". I'm going to try and have long bonding sessions probably tonight, Saturday night, and Sunday night. I may try and have a 2-hour one tonight, but only if they are doing good. In a week or two, I am going to try and have a 6 hour+ session but of course, I'm not going to rush anything. The sessions lately have been getting longer and longer so that's a good sign.

I know you said you wouldn't use a spray bottle, but I think I may try it because if one bites the other, they may learn that they shouldn't do that. I would give head pets after they get sprayed so they wouldn't get angry.


----------



## Whiterabbitrage (May 25, 2019)

Really enjoy this and the pictures are adorable


----------



## A & B (May 25, 2019)

I apologize for not posting an update after last night's session. 

Last night, the sessions went the same as all the others. They had a couple of scuffs but snuggled a lot. Lola groomed Bugs during this one though! I will add pictures.

Today, we went to Petsmart and got some new toys. The bunnies did great in the car. Lola nipped Bugs once when he moved away from her, but no scuffs happened. I put them in the cart and they were both terrified. They were snuggling in the cart though. There was a scuff that happened when yet again, Bugs tried to walk away from her. I broke that one up and I pushed them together again. I probably looked crazy lol. They didn't have any scuffs after this. We got home an hour and I just put them back in their cages because I worked 7 hours today and I'm not in the mood to go sit in the bathroom for an hour. I don't want to force myself to have sessions because I want this to be an enjoyable experience for both me and the bunnies. I will attach pictures of the Petsmart trip and all of the toys we got. Rabbit toys are expensive!


----------



## A & B (May 25, 2019)

The first 6 are from last night and the last picture is of all the toys they picked out. Don't mind the hay/cardboard/other bunny related things in the background


----------



## A & B (May 26, 2019)

I'm currently outside having another session and let me say that this is the best session yet. We've been outside in the pen for 2+ hours and there has only been two scuffs that I had to break up. The others they worked out on their own. The last scuff happened because there was a giant ant near Lola's butt and while I was trying to get it, I pushed her out of the way and she nipped Bugs and he got angry because he didn't do anything. 

Lola has groomed Bugs a ton during this one. When they want to be groomed, they will push their face against the others. After the first hour, they were doing so well that I had my sister bring out the litterbox. They shared it this time! Lola nipped Bugs when she wanted him to move over but no scuffs happened because of the nip. They have also been snuggling and sharing their veggies. The seem like they will be bonded within a few weeks. I'm going to have a long session tonight also. They're both asleep now!


----------



## A & B (May 26, 2019)




----------



## Imbrium (May 27, 2019)

JBun said:


> If being in there seems to make things worse, then do consider staying out of there and just carefully using a broom to break things up if needed.
> 
> I wouldn't let them act defensively of their litter boxes. I would put them together in the litter box and give head rubs to see if that helps or find some way to stop the defensive behavior. If I couldn't stop the defensive behavior I would remove the litter boxes.



Sitting in the pen with them is a good idea at first because you're there to intervene quickly and also provide a bit of comfort (at least to Bugs, in your case)... but once things start going well enough that you're comfortable trusting them a little bit (for me, this is usually around the 3rd or 4th session), it's actually best to stay out of the pen and let them interact with each other without you being in there distracting them. Whether it's "Mr. Broom" (used with our first trio bonding) or "The Stick of Truth" (referred to in one of my quad bonding posts), I always keep something handy that I can use to reach into the pen and disrupt a scuffle in the making. Usually a gentle prodding or brooming is enough to break things up without even having to go in there.

It sounds like your litter box issues are somewhat resolved after the outdoor session... but it's still worth suggesting that you get an extra large litter box for them to share in the future. Some rabbits are happy cramming into it like sardines to eat together but others prefer some space.

Also, Bugs and Lola are TOO stinkin' cute!


----------



## A & B (May 27, 2019)

I will stay out of the pen now. I will have to get my "Mr. Broom" for the next sessions. 

I will have two litterboxes for when they're bonded. I can't do today's session outside because it's raining  I am going to set up the pen to resemble what the cage set up will be like when they're bonded (two litterboxes, water bowls, some toys, etc). 

I can definitely tell they both like to have their "alone time" every once and a while but as you can see, they do like to snuggle! I think being outside helped because it was a change of scenery for Bugs, Lola was more familiar with the outdoor sounds and smells, I got some fresh air, and they got to dig! The bunnies kept eating the weeds and grass. I put a blanket down but they kept pulling it out of the way so I let them. They need a digging box! 

Yesterday, I took the cages apart and set them up next to each other, and it is going well! They seem to run around the cage and follow the other. It's hard to describe. Lola flopped last night right where Bugs was sitting! He seemed confused at first and then he sat down next to her! Lola pulled out some of Bugs's fur, which I believe was her telling him that he's too close to her space.


----------



## A & B (May 27, 2019)

The bunnies are having a session now. Only one scuff has happened and the session has been going on for 1 hour. There has been some nipping when they don't move over or they don't groom each other. Bugs is the lazy one this session! He is trying to nap in the litterbox and Lola is coming up to him and shoving her face into his. Right now, they are both relaxing in the same litterbox. Lola is stretched out while Bugs is munching on some hay. I think with me being out of the bathroom, it helps them relax more because Lola isn't too comfortable around me and Bugs tries to get my attention instead of hers.

I put two litterboxes, a bowl of water, and a couple of toys along with a frozen water bottle in the area. This is very similar to how the cage set up will be.

I think that in a couple of weeks, I will keep them together all night (while I sleep in the pen) and if they do good, they will be considered bonded. Could I do that in my room? That gives me enough time to get things for the cages. Imbrium, I know you have a picture of a nic cage you built that I remember seeing in a thread not too long ago. Can you post that here? I would like to build something like that.

Another issue: Lola is shedding a bit and has tufts of fur loose. I need to brush her and attempt to trim her nails, but when I tried, she attacked me! I don't want her ingesting the fur or getting a nail broken off.

Bugs has just discovered that the bathroom has an air vent too!


----------



## A & B (May 27, 2019)

As I posted this Bugs flopped on the air vent, which is his signature move!


----------



## JBun (May 27, 2019)

I guess we know who the boss is going to be in this relationship. Little miss bossy boots 

Will she let you brush her with your hand instead? For the nail trims, I had a rabbit that would full out bite, so I had to lay her on my lap on a towel in the crease of my legs, with her head covered with the towel while I hurried and trimmed the nails. I didn't have anyone to help me hold her for nail trims, and this was the only way I could do it without her biting my hand off. If you have someone to help you, you may be able to do it with them holding her and they have gloves and a coat on for protection just in case, while you trim the nails. Other option would be taking your bun to the vet and paying them to trim her nails.

If you were ever wanting to switch to one extra large litter box instead of two medium ones, I got mine from home depot(or lowes) for $6. It's a a 20x27 black mortar mixing tray(though they do have an even larger one than that,), and is found near the bags of cement.


----------



## A & B (May 27, 2019)

JBun said:


> I guess we know who the boss is going to be in this relationship. Little miss bossy boots


She sure is! She's very demanding towards him (kiss me, move over, steal me a treat) and I'm surprised he goes along with it! He is used to being the boss of me and getting whatever he wants.

She doesn't let me touch her at all. When she's with Bugs, however, she lets me pet her anywhere. I don't want to groom her when she's with him during a session because if she gets mad, she may nip at him. They will have a vet appointment soon so I may just get her nails clipped there. Money's a bit tight for the bunnies and I so I may just get my sister to help me. Getting bitten is worth saving that $40.

I actually think I may try that litter box actually! For one, I just checked and it's $10 ish dollars cheaper than the litterboxes I was going to get.

In this picture below, you can see that Bugs stuck his head under Lola as she was peeing. I thought that was worth pointing out as it made me laugh when I realized what was actually happening.


----------



## A & B (May 28, 2019)

I think the bunnies are just ready to be together at this point. They had their breakfasts together today and they seem happier in each other's presence. Especially Lola. Bugs gets very excited during playtime and he will run around and binky. In the pen today, Lola was running and binkying! It warmed my heart to see her excited to get the pellets from me! When I set the bowl down in her pen, she didn't run away and actually shoved her head in the bowl as I was holding it! She's really learning from Bugs!

As I was leaving today, I took Lola out of the pen for playtime and put Bugs in and Lola really wanted to see him. She was digging at the cage door trying to open it. My mom texted me an hour after I left as said that Lola was still trying to get to him. I hope she didn't rip a nail digging at the chicken wire. Bugs seemed to want to see her too. There has been no nipping through the pens anymore. I will have a session in the x pen tonight because the bathroom's smaller than the x pen, but I really do think they're almost ready. I don't want to rush it though.


----------



## A & B (May 30, 2019)

I haven't had a session since Tuesday, and that one lasted a very short 10 minutes 

I've been pretty stressed with the end of year assignments at school, work, and bonding the bunnies. I decided I need a few days without doing any sessions so I can focus on work and school. School's out on the 7th and after that, I can put 100% of my time towards getting them bonded. I also don't have the money to get them moved in together right now. I want to build them a nic cage with a few levels, but that's going to be a bit expensive. I may just use the x-pens though. I am very indecisive because I don't want to have to make another cage for quite a few years.

Tuesday, I really didn't want to have a session, but I did anyway. It probably didn't help them as my emotions were probably sensed by them. As I mentioned in my previous post, Lola was trying to get to him through the wire. She was digging at the side of it and I think that annoyed Bugs as he just seemed annoyed with her during the session. I had my Mr. Broom ready and right after I put them in the pen, they got into a scuff. I broke that up and they kept on getting into scuffs. They got into 4 scuffs in 10 minutes. This confused me because we have gone 3 hours with 2 or so scuffs. I was in a different space, but the size of the area was about the same. My Mr. Broom didn't work as well as I had hoped it would so I (without anything covering my hands), tried to break up the scuff. Lola nipped my arm and now it's bruised with two little bunny bite marks. Oh, the joys of having rabbits.

I will probably have another session Saturday and make that a long one, probably as long as I can make it.

I was scrolling through some old RO bonding threads and stumbled across this quote. I would like to know if the snuggling part is true as my two aren't really into snuggling unless I initiate it.


elrohwen said:


> I wanted to add that bunnies who are ready to move in together aren't always snuggling and grooming all the time. Often this still needs to be worked out between them, which is why cementing can help.


----------



## A & B (Jun 2, 2019)

I don't know what to do anymore. I feel that at this point, Lola isn't the bun for Bugs. It breaks my heart to say that because she needs a loving family. Every session, more fur is pulled and more bad scuffs happen.

I did a nice session outside today because the weather was beautiful. The session started out nice with them both on opposite sides of the pen, ignoring each other (which is becoming more and more common). Lola nipped Bugs because she wanted to be groomed and all the sudden, a fight broke out. They were latched onto each other's faces, on their sides Lola was digging at Bugs's stomach and I couldn't get them separated. They just wouldn't let go. In the process of getting them to let go of each other, the pen was opened and Lola almost got away. I grabbed her and kind of threw her into the pen (not hard, just so Bugs couldn't get out while I attempted to pick her up gently as he was right there). Upon inspecting the fur that was ripped out, I noticed that there was a piece of skin bit off in some fur. It was Bugs's.

As much as I love Lola, I won't risk Bugs's life just because she gets mad when she isn't groomed. 

I'm going to go ahead and call @Blue eyes to this post because I know she's mentioned that she's had to exchange bunnies when one isn't simply working. When do you determine that "Okay, this just isn't working out"?

I feel that Bugs feels threatened and jumpy now. He used to let me pet/touch him wherever and now he will bite me if I touch his tail (that's where she will nip him if she's mad that he doesn't groom her).


----------



## JBun (Jun 2, 2019)

I'm sorry. How frustrating for you.

Latching on is not good, and unfortunately you might be right that they aren't likely to bond. And honestly speaking, I wouldn't risk it. A rabbit latching on means serious damage and is considered full out fighting, not just a squabble. You need to check both of them over very carefully, and make sure the wounds don't require stitches, especially check both of their bellies. I would also put a thin layer of plain triple antibiotic ointment(no added pain relief) on any wounds that are found, that don't require stitches.

The only other possibility is if there was an odd scent in that area(such as from a predator) this is what could have set them off, and if so then bonding inside could still possibly work. Though you may need to wait several days for them to calm down again before trying. But it sounds like Bugs is already becoming defensive because of her, so maybe it's just not a match that's going to work.

You need to keep something in mind with this bonding. I feel like the slow method wasn't the best for these two. It's prolonged the bonding process far too long, and they haven't been able to really be together to work things out. The gradual approach has just gotten them to a point each day where they almost start to work things out but not quite, so it keeps them stuck in this place where they are never quite getting used to each other, and instead end up becoming intolerant or defensive of each other So just keep that in mind if you decide on a different friend to bond him to. 

If you still wanted to try again with her, I would wait several days with no interaction between them(redo the cages on top of each other so they can't even really be around the other), then do a fast bond and keep them together 24/7 until bonded, with me right in there with them(with protective gear and a broom) ready to break up even the slightest hint of an argument. I would not even allow nipping at this point(spray bottle at the ready). Also keep in mind that they could break out in a full out fight again, and this time serious injuries could occur. If a fight did get to the verge of breaking out, then that would be it and I would call it quits on trying to bond them at all.


----------



## A & B (Jun 2, 2019)

I just sent a message to the rescue 

I still can't find that area on Bugs, and it's frustrating me. I will just do my best to keep his area clean to avoid infection, and get him right to the vet if I suspect anything.

They act the same way inside and outside, so I don't think it has to do with the smell of a predator. I will keep that in mind. Now I feel bad that I messed the bonding up by doing the slow method. I want it to work and I will try the fast method in a week or two, but I'm not getting my hopes up. They just seemed so perfect together a couple of weeks ago. 

Bugs seems mad at me now and it's probably because he didn't like a broom shoved in his face or me checking him for injuries. He will (hopefully) get over it.

I don't know if I can get her to stop nipping. That's just her personality. 

If I set the cages up, they would still have to be switched between the cages so they both got playtime. Would this work?


----------



## A & B (Jun 4, 2019)

I found this picture from right before the fight. I thought it was worth sharing with you guys.


----------



## A & B (Jun 4, 2019)

I talked to the lady at the rescue and she thinks we should exchange her because I've never bonded before and this one doesn't seem to be working out. I came home yesterday to see Lola had not pooped or eaten her breakfast so I have her a dose of simethicone and she started eating. I think her early stasis was caused by stress from Bugs. I requested to meet a Lionhead and another lop with similar personalities to Bugs.


----------



## Imbrium (Jun 4, 2019)

Alyssa and Bugs♡ said:


> Imbrium, I know you have a picture of a nic cage you built that I remember seeing in a thread not too long ago. Can you post that here? I would like to build something like that.


What size are you looking to build (or what budget are you working with)? I've shared a number of different cage designs and would be happy to help you plan one.



JBun said:


> If you were ever wanting to switch to one extra large litter box instead of two medium ones, I got mine from home depot(or lowes) for $6. It's a a 20x27 black mortar mixing tray(though they do have an even larger one than that,), and is found near the bags of cement.


OMFG, you're my hero! I've been wanting bigger boxes for our cats and the big ones are like $30 at pet stores or Walmart - a complete and total rip for a bit of plastic. I'll have to check out Home Depot.



Alyssa and Bugs♡ said:


> In this picture below, you can see that Bugs stuck his head under Lola as she was peeing. I thought that was worth pointing out as it made me laugh when I realized what was actually happening.


Hilarious.



JBun said:


> If you still wanted to try again with her, I would wait several days with no interaction between them(redo the cages on top of each other so they can't even really be around the other), then do a fast bond and keep them together 24/7 until bonded, with me right in there with them(with protective gear and a broom) ready to break up even the slightest hint of an argument. I would not even allow nipping at this point(spray bottle at the ready). Also keep in mind that they could break out in a full out fight again, and this time serious injuries could occur. If a fight did get to the verge of breaking out, then that would be it and I would call it quits on trying to bond them at all.


After some serious fighting like they've gotten into, I would definitely put them where they can't see each other for like 3 weeks to reset the bonding *if* you wish to continue trying with this pair.



Alyssa and Bugs♡ said:


> I just sent a message to the rescue


Honestly, I've had this nagging concern in the back of my mind about the continued scuffs... I've never had to give up on a bond (*knock on wood*) but I've also never seen them take so long to work things out. Don't beat yourself up about it, though! There's no way to know right out of the gate which method to use, especially when it's your very first time bonding (fast-track bonding can seem intimidating if you've never done any bonding at all before)... and some rabbits just don't like each other no matter what method you use. While a hard reset and fresh start might do the trick, it also might not. There's nothing wrong with giving up on a bond that seems like an uphill battle (as this one does). You, Bugs and Lola will probably all end up happier in the long run.


----------



## A & B (Jun 4, 2019)

Seeing another rabbit owner confirm that it probably just isn't meant to be makes me feel way better about the situation. Since I realized she may not be the one, I kept thinking that I somehow screwed up the process and that I'm not trying hard enough to make it work out.


Imbrium said:


> After some serious fighting like they've gotten into, I would definitely put them where they can't see each other for like 3 weeks to reset the bonding *if* you wish to continue trying with this pair.


Considering I still live with my parents and they hate the mess the bunnies make, there's no other spot I could put one of them for 3+ weeks. 

I hope the whole not being able to bond thing isn't common. The next bun will have to work, as my parents aren't too stoked to be driving the 2+ hours again, and I don't blame them. My parents actually watched a scuff and so they get that they could hurt each other. They kept asking me "what are they doing?" and not even I knew! 


Imbrium said:


> What size are you looking to build (or what budget are you working with)? I've shared a number of different cage designs and would be happy to help you plan one.


I want something probably 2 feet by 4 feet with 2 levels. I would also like an area on the top of the cage for storage. The bunnies will be free roam together so the size isn't an issue. I know some bunnies (looks at Lola) prefer a cage as their safe area. My price range is around $50, but the very extreme amount I will pay is $125 (I'm 14 with a job that pays minimum wage and I only get a few hours a week. I will be getting a second job over the summer though).

Bugs really wants a friend and for the most part seems happier just being around her. I feel that she would be happier as an only bunny or with a very submissive male though. When she's not trying to murder Bugs, she seems more confident around him.

Lola was let out for playtime last night (with Bugs on my bed in the x-pen) and she let me clean the cage! I was in it sweeping up the cardboard mess she made and I felt a wet nose on my arm. My first thought was "oh no, Bugs escaped!" but it was Lola saying hi. She never approaches me, let alone give me a nose boop!


----------



## A & B (Jun 6, 2019)

On the 15th, we will be meeting the new bunnies and doing the exchange with Lola. We will be meeting some girls (the two others we met first) and a few new ones, along with some males. I know male/male bonds are harder, but it won't hurt to try meeting them. If Bugs chooses a male that he likes, would the bond still be hard? Below is a picture of a female Lionhead we will be meeting, and then a lop that may be there (they are doing an event with all the adoptable bunnies and invited us).


----------



## A & B (Jun 9, 2019)

Today has been a very eventful day, but some problems have come up. To begin, we got two more dogs today very last minute. Our neighbor is moving across the country and she couldn't take her dogs so she just brought them to our house and told us to take them. One of them happens to be a barker and it scares Bugs. He's never been one to be scared by loud noises, but the barking terrifies him. He will run into his cage and will sit in there for a pretty long time. Lola also seems a bit scared because she isn't really leaving her box but then again, that's typical Lola. How do I help them relax when the dog barks (or how to get the dog to stop barking)? Whenever I ask someone to make the dog stop barking, they will say that I only care about the bunnies, which is kind of true honestly 

I also set the cages back up. Bugs has the top level with steps leading up there. He seems to be nervous when going up and down the steps, but will still climb up and down them. He also isn't _that_ great of a jumper, despite being a very small and energetic boy. Any tips on how to get him to be more comfortable?

Also, Bugs really likes apple sticks. He will eat the whole stick while sucking it up like it's a spaghetti noodle and chewing it like it's a piece of hay. Is this normal? I don't want him to get a blockage.

Lola is also laying down and eating her veggies. She reminds me of myself


----------



## A & B (Jun 10, 2019)

I thought I would actually share some pictures of the cage and one of Bugs licking watermelon off the cage bars

I ordered 25 pounds of pellets because I realized I'd save more money that way (I was buying 5 pounds for $10). This bag was 25 pounds for $27! Now I don't know how I'm going to actually store it though


----------



## A & B (Jun 11, 2019)

Read this.


----------



## A & B (Jun 12, 2019)

Bugs is adorable!


----------



## A & B (Jun 15, 2019)

We just got home from the bunny dates, and oh boy did it go well!

The new bunny's name is Evie! I may end up changing the name, but for now, that's her name! She is in love with Bugs! She groomed him all over and he loved it! The lady said that's the second best date she's ever seen! He thumped once at first, but he did seem to like her. She is a 1 year old mini rex and is mostly black, with some orange and white on her paws, belly, and ears. She's so small she makes little Bugs look massive! I don't have many good pictures, but I will post the ones I do have. She is also very social and has already been playing with the toys. 

I would like to do the fast method of bonding, but I can't seem to find any clear information on it. My questions are:
1. Could using my bathroom work? Or should I use an area as big as my bedroom (as that's where they will be kept when bonded)
2. I feel that by using the fast method, I'm rushing the process. Is this true?
3. Should I give them a couple weeks to get used to being around each other and then do the fast method?

Also, she was only spayed a couple of weeks ago. I'm scared that if I get them bonded soon, her hormones won't fully be gone and she will try to fight him. Is this a real concern I should be aware of?

She was fed Kaytee pellets. I don't have those as I feed Oxbow. Should I give her no pellets now and then in a few days start giving her some Oxbow?


----------



## A & B (Jun 15, 2019)

Here's the pictures, sorry they aren't great.


----------



## A & B (Jun 15, 2019)

She came out of her box to eat some romaine, so I got these pictures!


----------



## thelaurelcrowned (Jun 15, 2019)

I’m loving following this little bonding journey! It’s been very informative and really interesting to watch [emoji3526]. Your new little Rex girl is absolutely precious!


----------



## A & B (Jun 15, 2019)

thelaurelcrowned said:


> I’m loving following this little bonding journey! It’s been very informative and really interesting to watch [emoji3526]. Your new little Rex girl is absolutely precious!


Thank you!


----------



## A & B (Jun 17, 2019)

I just thought I'd update you on some things I've noticed about Evie.

She has a completely different look to what I'm used to. She's really slender and has "normal" bunny ears (not trying to offend all the lops  ) and she's so soft! I could pet her for hours, and she'd probably let me. She is very friendly and will let me pet her already. She's probably the only bunny that can make little 3.5 pound Bugs look big. She isn't fully litter box trained, but within the last 24 hours, she appears to have grasped the concept and is using it for the most part. It's Bugs who seems to forgot how to use a litter box! Evie also is obsessed with hay! She is constantly munching on it. She looooves toys also! She has been throwing all the toys around the cage and nibbling on them all. Finally, all of those toys will get played with! (Reference to a previous blog post where I shared that Bugs isn't a big toy player after he's had the toy for a day, leaving me with a tote full of unused toys). She was just running around my room and doing binkys! She flopped in her litter box after eating a nice piece of hay first when she was tired.

Bugs and Evie will have a vet appointment within the next few weeks, whenever I think I have enough money saved for it as I want their ears looked at and an x-ray to see what's up with Bugs's calcium issues he had earlier this year. I suspect Evie may have an eye problem as it's a little pink on the white part of her eye. I always figured you weren't supposed to see the white part so I want to check to see if that's normal in rex's. I also want my vet to take a look at Bugs's wound on his side as I'm worried it's not healing properly. It probably would have needed a stitch or two as you can see where the skin is parted on the other sides of the scabbed area. I feel bad that I didn't see it earlier but when I did, I didn't want to waste money on a vet visit as he was acting fine so I've been keeping an eye on it.


----------



## JBun (Jun 17, 2019)

How exciting! And this does sound more promising, more like a love at first sight, which should be much easier. It's really the only kind of bonds I care to do anymore as I don't like dealing with the stress of the other ones.

So her color is black otter. Rex fur is the softest bunny fur there is. It's like velvet, so yes, you pretty much just want to sit there and pet them all day.

So with doing the fast method of bonding, if they truly are love at first sight, it kind of just happens naturally as they want to be together so much that it makes it fairly easy. I would do a test run first and put them together in the bathroom or other small area for several hours if possible, and just observe how they react to one another. If they instantly are getting along then I would set up an area that you will be able to keep them in 24/7, where you will be able to monitor them and keep a close eye on things. Your bedroom could work if you can make an area neutral. Though I will say that with my love at first sight bond, I ended up just putting them in the does permanent area right away without neutralizing anything, as they got on so well and desperately wanted to be together. But if she does still seem too hormonal and wants to hump him too much, then hold off the bonding and give her a few weeks for the hormones to fade. 

You can't really rush things too much if they really like each other and you are seeing signs they really want to be together. In fact delaying things too long can actually cause problems because the tension can build and cause issues. It's a balance of determining what will work best for their personalities, and sometimes it's difficult to tell when you don't have a lot of experience with rabbit behavior or bonding. You just have to forge ahead sometimes and hope it's the right choice. If you go with the fast method and it doesn't seem to be working out, you can always backtrack and take it slower if you need to.

With the pellets, since she likes hay, free feed that and just gradually start increasing her pellet amount each day til you get to the normal amount you want to feed her. Unless you are able to get them bonded, then you may need to accelerate her pellet amount some, as you will then need to feed them together.

Bugs wound will heal as long as it doesn't get infected. If it did need stitches you would see a significant depression or indent where the wound is. But regardless it's too late now to do anything more but monitor the healing. And it won't hurt anything besides him having a little bit larger scar than he would have. So I would just continue to keep an eye out for signs of infection(redness, swelling, lump, oozing, yellowish/white discharge).


----------



## A & B (Jun 17, 2019)

I just had a session that lasted 1.5 hours and it went better then any of Bugs's and Lola's ever did. There is humping from them both (mainly Bugs humping her though) and she hates it. Will he eventually give up on humping her? I always stop the humping right away because the bun being humped would look mad or grunt at the other. Bugs only humped Lola once, but then again, Lola didn't also want to be the top bun. They shared the litter box I put in except for when Bugs humped her and she ran away and jumped into the litter box to get away from him. He tried to get into the litter box with her a few seconds later and she nipped his head. A little scuff happened after that, but I broke it up and gave them lettuce. I don't blame her, I would be angry too!

There was grooming from them both! They also both groomed themselves many times and Bugs even flopped (on the air vent of course)! There wasn't any snuggling, but I imagine that'll happen soon. Bugs has been flopping around her cage when she's on the other side of the bars. Evie was eating the last piece of lettuce I gave them and Bugs tried to take it out of her mouth! She stood up on her hind legs so he couldn't steal it and finished it. 

I struggled to end the session on a good note however. Bugs had tried to hump her and she didn't like it so she ran to sit in the litter box. Then, she started running around the bathroom and thumping, clearly scared. I don't think she was scared of Bugs because she ran to sit behind him. I still wanted to force them to sit next to each other before I ended the session but she wouldn't sit still. I just put them in their carriers and ended it there. There was no territorial behaviors happening (I was expecting there to be as Bugs is having a bit of a poop war). 

I am going to continue to have long sessions that last as long as I can make them. Tomorrow, I can do a 6 hour long session before I go to work and can probably have a 5 hour one when I get back. Fingers crossed.


----------



## A & B (Jun 17, 2019)

Here's the pictures of the cuties (and one I got of Evie while she was out for playtime)


----------



## A & B (Jun 18, 2019)

I may have a bonded pair tomorrow.

I'm so happy to share this with you guys! Bugs and Evie are doing amazing! We are in the middle of a session and they're doing absolutely amazing. They both have flopped multiple times (Bugs on the air vent) and Evie wherever. Evie is definitely the dominant one and Bugs is the submissive one. Bugs will ask to be groomed and when he isn't groomed, he will get closer and closer to her until she gives in, or he decides that he wants to kiss her instead. It's pretty adorable. If the session tonight goes well, I will finish up the process tomorrow. Bugs has only humped once during this session but that's one too many. Evie and I are doing a good job at getting him to stop, by her nipping at him or me pushing him away. If I'm not working tomorrow, I will get them bonded (granted that Sir humps a lot calms his little butt down). I got them to sit next to each other and snuggle, but neither bun objected. I just pushed them together and they both fell asleep with their eyes closed! I have to go to work in a few hours, so I'm going to get ready in the bathroom so they can stay together. I hope it won't harm them too much by being seperated for a few hours. 

The last picture was taken after Evie stood up after I pushed them together. She ate her ceco and layed down next to him without me needing to push them together. She looks a bit spooked because after she layed down, my sister came into the hallway and was talking loudly. She scooted away and Bugs moved next to her and she didn't mind!


----------



## A & B (Jun 18, 2019)

Right after I posted this, she flopped into him! I'm screaming, this is too cute!


----------



## elliem (Jun 18, 2019)

They're adorable, and I love reading your blog.


----------



## thelaurelcrowned (Jun 18, 2019)

I'm so happy that they're doing so well together! I was really hoping and praying that your bonding would go smoothly this time around -- since I can only imagine how hard it was to bring back Lola after you must have gotten so attached to her


----------



## A & B (Jun 18, 2019)

thelaurelcrowned said:


> I'm so happy that they're doing so well together! I was really hoping and praying that your bonding would go smoothly this time around -- since I can only imagine how hard it was to bring back Lola after you must have gotten so attached to her


I'm suprised the process is going so well with these two. It's only the second session we've had and they're almost ready to be moved in together! It was difficult to bring Lola back but it was in both of their interest, and mine too.


----------



## A & B (Jun 18, 2019)

We are having yet another session and Bugs has been chinning Evie. He's never been the type of rabbit to chin, especially to chin something repeatedley. It's adorable, and I managed to get a picture of him mid chin! I haven't decided if I want to keep them together all night. I'm nervous that something will happen, but I don't want to hurt their bond by keeping them apart. I guess this is the best time to bond them because I'm working thursday, friday, and saturday. I will have all of tomorrow and most of Thursday to cement the bond (or decide they need more time). I feel like I'm going too fast, but they seem to be ready. I'll update you guys on what I decide to do later.


----------



## JBun (Jun 18, 2019)

Yay!!!

Well she's certainly relaxed  I would say you've got a good match there. I'm so glad for you. I'm sure you're feeling a bit relieved.

I would go for it. You've got the time now, and they seem more than ready. She's obviously completely at ease around him, and he seems pretty happy with the arrangement. My love at first sight bond was the fastest one I've ever done. So it can happen, and it can go well. You can always end it if anything concerning happens, but I find it pretty doubtful seeing how well they are getting on.

ETA: Besides, I think Bugs is showing his approval by marking her as 'his'.


----------



## A & B (Jun 18, 2019)

There was some grunting and nipping after I put them into a carrier together, so I'm nervous that something will happen if they are in an enclosed space. The box will be taken out for the night and I'll add it in tomorrow, where I can fully supervise. I'll be setting alarms for every half an hour, just so I can be sure everything's going fine. I know that if I take the cages apart, I can't get them back together. I will have the other pen set up in case they need seperated during the night.


----------



## A & B (Jun 19, 2019)

Tonight isn't the night.

I put them (in a very neutralized space, everything was cleaned and a fresh and brand new litter box was given) in and immediately, I could tell Bugs was getting a little defensive/territorial. He was nipping at her, a lot more than he has previously. She nipped him on his face and he didn't like that so he nipped her butt. They both didn't seem happy and I didn't feel comfortable having them in the same pen overnight. I gave them some kale and then I put Evie into her cage and Bugs will be sleeping with me in the pen. I would leave him in the pen and sleep in my bed but there is bunny toys, beds, blankets, hay, etc, all over the bed and I don't feel like cleaning it up. 

I gave it a shot, but they aren't ready for that step yet


----------



## April LD (Jun 19, 2019)

You're doing amazing. It will work out. Once they are both flopping, grooming, it's a pretty done deal, especially since there isn't a lot of nipping. Bugs will need to get accustomed to sharing ALL of his space, but he will get there. Remember that there will be some scuffs, even later on, my two scuff periodically then love up on each other. Bugs has made your room his...and he like the attention from another bun but he will be somewhat defensive sharing all of his space. Just make sure there is enough room for them to get away from each other in the cage...it will work it's self out, but keep an eye on them. They are super cute!! Reminds me of my Binks and Mrs. Bon-Bons.


----------



## A & B (Jun 19, 2019)

I do think that they are ready to be moved in together. Bugs is nippy and doesn't seem to want to share his space as he will nip her if she comes near him sometimes. It's like a 50/50 chance that he's either going to nip her or not react at all/groom or snuggle with her. I'm worried that if they are moved in together now, there will be a scuff and one will get hurt. Just now, Evie sniffed his tail and he jumped up. He didn't nip her, which is good progress, but I want him to be completely relaxed around her. (Don't mind the pile of dirty clothes in the background of this picture)

I forgot to add that they will be spending all today together and I won't be in the pen. I will be in the room or have my door open so I can hear them. 

They don't ever sit in the litter box together, even though there's more than enough room. Is this normal for pairs?


----------



## A & B (Jun 20, 2019)

Ugh, Evie chewed my Xbox controller. Now I'll have to tell her that instead of spending $20 on her new toys, I have to get myself a new controller.


----------



## A & B (Jun 20, 2019)

Bugs making sure I know Evie is his!


----------



## A & B (Jun 20, 2019)

Happy bunnies!

We had a breakthrough today. Not a huge one, but Bugs seems to be trusting Evie a lot more than before. He had flopped into Evie, which is an amazing feat all in itself, but she got up and flopped right into him! He didn't tense up at all and let her sleep there! She is grooming him all over and he loves it! Seeing him so happy around her makes me feel accomplished. Like I did something right. I've wanted this for him his whole life and I'm finally able to make it happen. At first, I couldn't get him a friend because I wasn't in the correct head space, then I couldn't simply afford another bunny, or I just didn't have enough time to actually bond them.


----------



## zuppa (Jun 21, 2019)

Alyssa and Bugs♡ said:


> Ugh, Evie chewed my Xbox controller. Now I'll have to tell her that instead of spending $20 on her new toys, I have to get myself a new controller.


Well, that's brutal. Can you just fix it with tape? Soldering would be better of course but even without it would work for another 30 years.


----------



## A & B (Jun 21, 2019)

Poopy Poo said:


> Well, that's brutal. Can you just fix it with tape? Soldering would be better of course but even without it would work for another 30 years.


It's one of those extremely cheap cords that stopped working after she took only a bite out of it. Tape may work, I'll have to try that. For it to work, I have to hold the controller upside down, which makes the game almost impossible to play. It's not a big deal to me. They have a vet appointment on the 29th, so I'm going to refrain from spending any unnecessary money until after their appointment.


----------



## A & B (Jun 22, 2019)

Bugs's gotcha day is today! That means my forum join anniversary is in about a month! I've learned so much in this last year about rabbits obviously, but also about myself. Rabbits sure do like to test our limits! 

Mr. Nips-a-lot won't stop living up to his name. No matter what I've tried (different bonding areas, sizes, adding things like veggies to associate her with good things, pressing his head to the ground to teach him "no", and forcing them to snuggle immediately after he nips), nothing stops him from doing it. I know with time this will stop, but it doesn't seem like he's trusting her more after every session like he should be. I've thought about spraying him after he nips so he learns not to, but I want him to be comfortable around her, not the opposite. 

They have flopped into each other and are snuggling! They are asleep with their eyes open staring at me and to be honest, it's a bit scary.




Edit: it seems like I'm trying to rush the process. Please know that I am in no rush to get them bonded, I just want the nipping to at least slow down. They're doing so well aside from the nipping and I don't want the nipping to mess up all the progress they've made so far.


----------



## A & B (Jun 24, 2019)

I feel like I've been sharing only positive moments about bonding, not the frustrating things that I have no idea how to work around. They're definitely bond-able, but it's taking way longer to just get over nipping than I thought it would. The nipping is done by both equally now. Evie tried to nip him when he came and snuggled with me and she ended up nipping my head. Ouch. No wonder Bugs nips back. I don't know how to stop the nipping. I feel that at this point, I should just let them figure it out. I don't want Evie to nip Bugs and then he won't nip her back and she learns it's okay. It's hard to just let them do it because I don't want either of them hurt. I'm trying to stay positive because when the nipping stops they'll be very close to being bonded, if they aren't right after the nipping stops. I want them bonded by the time the school year starts at the end of August because I won't be able to cement the bond for 48 hours like I want to. If they aren't, it won't be the end of the world though.


----------



## JBun (Jun 24, 2019)

Like I mentioned with the previous bond, sometimes prolonging the bonding process isn't a good thing. I would be inclined to fast bond them now and monitor and stop any major scuffling, but minor nipping and minor scuffles/disagreements, sometimes does need to be allowed to some extent, so they can work out their relationship.


----------



## A & B (Jun 24, 2019)

I have been doing long sessions that are 2-7 hours long, almost twice a day, everyday. This session is already going better than the one earlier did. At this rate, I will keep them together all night. Evie is laying on the frozen tile and Bugs is laying next to her.


----------



## JBun (Jun 24, 2019)

I imagine rex fur must be hotter than regular rabbit fur, because it's so dense. She seems to be enjoying that cool tile 

They do seem quite happy to be together, so hopefully they can get all of the kinks in their relationship worked out tonight so they can stay together permanently. Good luck! I hope it goes well for you and them.


----------



## A & B (Jun 24, 2019)

They just had a little scuff, so I decided I wouldn't intervene at all. They did stop after a few seconds. After they stopped, Evie did lunge at him so I put my hand in front of his face so she couldn't bite him. They are laying pretty close to each other but aren't snuggling. This time, Bugs is on the tile and she's laying near the frozen water bottle. They've been together for 2 hours already. 

No promises on keeping them together all night, but I'm going to try. I'll update later when I decide.


----------



## A & B (Jun 24, 2019)

I think they'll be kept together all night. We're 5.5 hours in and only one minor scuff. I may pull an all-nighter, just so I can closely supervise. I can always take a nap tomorrow if I need it. I want them to prove that they're ready, and I think they are. I find that they do better when I'm not in the pen. For every session, I have sat in the pen just because there would be too much nipping for me to not to. They just shared a plate of veggies and there was no fighting over the last piece like there always is. Evie is doing binkies in the pen, so a very happy girl. If they make it through tonight with no big scuffs and only the occasional nip, I'll declare them bonded. Asking for no scuffs seems like a lot to ask, but they've suprised me before. I'm happy to almost be done with the bonding process. Between Lola and Evie, I've been having multiple sessions a day, everyday for over a month, and I'm beginning to go a bit insane 

Evie is also being fed the same amount of pellets as Bugs is, so now I can start to incorporate some things like red and green leaf, bell peppers, cilantro, etc into her diet. I'm sure Bugs will be happy to have his variety back as he's only been fed red leaf, romaine, and sometimes cilantro and kale since we got Lola over a month ago.


----------



## A & B (Jun 24, 2019)

Well, I tried.

They're not ready. I tried to keep them together all night but there has been 3 scuffs (that were pretty bad) and during the last one, Evie attacked me. She drew blood (a lot of blood, there is bite marks all along my finger base. I'll attach a picture to show it. After that, I couldn't keep them together. I made them eat some lettuce together and quickly ended the session. I see why she bit me though and I'm not mad. Just shocked. In my year of being a bunny parent, I've never been bitten so hard it drew blood. She was scared and when she saw my (unprotected) hand coming at her, she lunged at it. Bugs nipped her first which made her mad, but she definitely was the more aggressive one. My sister was in my room on my bed just watching and when they started to go at each other, I told her to go get her own oven mitt and help me calm them down. I took Bugs and she took Evie to the opposite of the pen. I want to clarify that I was not in any way playing favorites, it just happened that after separating them Bugs was closer to me. After they seemed calm, I gave lettuce for them to share. 

I'm sorry that this bonding experience is pretty difficult to give advice on. It goes so well until it doesn't. They definitely need more time. I think I may start back at square one (at a laundry basket then work my way up).


----------



## A & B (Jun 24, 2019)

Well, I can't edit my post and put the picture in so I have to do it in a seperate post. Sorry.


----------



## April LD (Jun 25, 2019)

Alyssa,

Have you thought, and I know it sounds crazy, but biting their ear when they nip/bite, then tell them "No Biting". When the "OUCH" didn't work or the squeal I just picked them up, bit their ear, NOT HARD, but enough that they felt it, then I would say "NO BITE", we give love, kisses, and snuggles here. Then I would pet them, kiss, and snuggle until they were clam and/or chomping...most of the time they would put their head under mine after the bite (that I did) and want snuggles/forgiveness. But I think this will teach them you are "BOSS BUN". This should help some so you can save your fingers/hands because they will learn NO BITE means something or BE NICE, this is what I tell my buns. 90% stops them in their tracks, sometimes I need to say it twice, and I currently have 28 rabbits.

I know many will not approve of this method - but you HAVE TO BE CONSISTENT, for this to work. EVERY BITE/NIP you would need to do this. It's is time consuming, but it works and it might help them to stop nipping each other. I have rabbits who will occasionally nip that are in pairs and 2 warrens/herds. They will occasionally have a tussle between them when I begin to hear the "racing" I will tell them STOP, BE NICE! Typically ends the tussle/chase. My biggest issue is they pee/spray each other still to show dominance, it seems like, there is one male and one female in one of my warrens/herds that do this mostly. The rest will chin their sibling/mom. (They are all fixed BTW). 

Some stress bonding might also work...I know you didn't want to do that, but it might be where to go from here. A little stress make the heart fonder??


----------



## JBun (Jun 25, 2019)

My momma bun bit me on the finger once too years ago, but hers was much worse, where they lock on and twist with intent to kill. Funny, cause she is now my sweetest bunny.

I'm sorry finishing bonding didn't work out and that you got bit. It's not going too smoothly for you is it. I wonder what the issue is and why they start out so well, then start having issues?


----------



## A & B (Jun 25, 2019)

I think I may have found the source of Evie's trust issues/nipping. I think there's a possibility that she's blind, or has limited vision. I know it sounds crazy because she's a year old, but after thinking about it, it makes a lot of sense. She didn't bite me because she hates me. She saw something moving and went after it. She does the same with Bugs, and I don't think it's directed at either of us. She also has this adorable little quirk where when I roll a ball, she chases it. A lot like a dog. She will stop whatever she's doing if my door is opened and I have to talk to her for her to calm down because she gets scared. I've also noticed the whiter part of her eye being a shade of pink. I haven't posted a thread about it because I can't get a clear picture of her eye. Here's a line from an article I just read. "If your rabbit is not already bonded, a gentle companion could be very comforting. Keep in mind, though, that blind bunnies can be very difficult to bond because of the nervousness that arises from their lack of sight." This makes complete sense. She isn't scared of Bugs unless he's moving. Here's the link to that article. I could obviously be interpreting her behavior wrong, but that's what I've noticed. It will definitely be brought up to the vet tomorrow. 

As for stress bonding, I tried it and I think that may be what helps their nipping. There was no nipping whatsoever during the 20 minute session. They were in a laundry basket on the washer during it's spin cycle. I will probably do stress bonding sessions twice a day along with their long session(s) in the afternoon. 

I wish they would just get over it now. It's getting a bit annoying because I hate not knowing what to do. I will put them in the bathtub today and not move on until there is no nipping or any scuffs. They're doing well, but at the same time, they're not.


----------



## A & B (Jun 25, 2019)

I think I'm about ready to give up. I don't know what to do or try. They just were on their sides fighting. Bugs grunted louder than I've ever heard him grunt. Maybe he's better off as a single bunny. I can't believe I've failed two attempts at bonding. As much as I would like to keep them separate, I can't. It's not fair to either of them. I'll be moving out for college in a few years and then, I can't house them separately. I feel like if I contact the rescue and tell them they're not working out, they may think I screwed it up because of how well the first date went. I really want to make this work but I have absolutely no idea how to. I'm incredibly attached to Evie and giving her up is a last resort.


----------



## A & B (Jun 25, 2019)

I've done some thinking and I will be keeping Evie for multiple reasons. One being that it's not her fault Bugs is a bit of a meanie. She's finally found a family and we are all so attached to her. I have the means to support her and when it comes time for me to go to college, I'll have to decide what I'll do then. I can also attempt bonding at some point in the future. My mom and I discussed where we could keep her, but there's no where else in my house that's safe for a bunny and where she will get attention. We have 3 dogs and a cat and I don't want her to be in danger or feel unsafe. I will be building her a multi-level condo and she will have an x-pen around the condo as a "run". She will be allowed a few hours of time outside the cage. The reason being that with the pen, she will still be able to run and burn some energy, and I feel it's not fair for Bugs to be locked in a cage as he hates it. Evie doesn't seem to mind, as long as she has toys.

I will not be continuing with bonding. It's too risky at this point. 

Sorry I've posted a ton today.


----------



## April LD (Jun 26, 2019)

I'm sorry to hear. Maybe after the vet appt you will have more information on if she is indeed blind. 

Maybe a month separation is needed and then you can try again see if it helps any. I'm so sorry it's difficult. He may only like having someone around OUTSIDE his space but not within his space. My bun, Tigger, wants love and attention from his brother Binks but only in the backyard where there is lots of space. In the house or in his cage - ABSOLUTELY NOT. He doesn't want any bun in HIS space.

Bugs may be the same...you never know.

It could also be the breed for Evie. My Mrs. Bon-bons is the same mini-rex, and she is nippy with Binks but Binks LOVES her. I thought she had eye issues and might see well but the vet said she was fine.

She will nip him at treat time, if another bun comes up to their cage she will nip at Binks (reminds me of how my mother rabbits where with the babies, when another rabbit would come up they would nip the babies to get them away from the cage - I wonder if it was to protect them). 

During the bonding with them we were at the "date" for about 3 hours without issue. Came home placed them in my daughter's room, at the time, in cages next to each other. Over the next week they came out and spent the day together, 3+ hours. She did not groom him, he loved on her, they would lay together, she would stay near him mostly. The lady at the bunny date said that she thought it would be a good fit, but that Binks would get frustrated if she didn't return the grooming and it could cause him to lash out. It took her 5 days before she groomed him back. After that we did an overnight. My daughter and I took turns being up with them. We had one tussle, that was it. Then the next day they stayed in the cage all day together, no issues, the next night we put them together and they were alright so after that, they moved in together. Now, she will nip him occasionally, like I mentioned above, Binks will occasionally try to hump her (he is a special needs Bunny - long story short - he is missing bones in his hind quarters from Rat Bite Fever and basically has Arthritis and gets pain meds injected weekly) so he can chase her only so much before he gives up. But they ADORE each other even though there are the occasional spats, there has never been a fight, blood shed, etc. They work it out... 

She was very hesitant with us, even for the first few months she would "lash out" and I thought it was because she had eye issues and was scared of us. I don't think that she was in a place where she had much attention, her nails were HORRIBLE, she had previously broken when I adopted her, and she did not want to be touched by us. Took a long time, a lot of loving talk, "You are safe with us", "We just want to love you and keep you safe", "We won't hurt you", "We love you, Binks loves you", "It's ok, we are nice people". etc. She loves us now, and no longer digs and bites at us, or lunges, but it took about 6 - 7 months before she would really allow us to hold her/pick her up and snuggle, feel safe. She will come when we call her when they get outside time, she will come to the cages and ask for love/treats/attention by standing on her hind legs.


----------



## A & B (Jun 26, 2019)

They may just be happier as a single bunnies, and I'm willing to accept that. I will give it another try eventually, but I'm okay with housing them separate too. Evie's nails are also terrible but I'm not comfortable clipping them because they're fully black and I can't see the quick. I can partially see Bugs's quick so I'm sure to not cut it. Bugs likes to squirm and bite so I've been unable to get his lately. I'm just going to have the vet do both of theirs, even though it will cost me money I don't have.

I had to reschedule their appointment because I didn't have a ride. They will be going in on Saturday. The joys of being young.


----------



## April LD (Jun 26, 2019)

Yeah, but you are VERY responsible! My daughter and I do nails together. I usually hold them, their back to my chest/stomach, my left hand around the front holding behind the back of the front legs (can't bite then), and place them on my leg (covered with a towel so I don't get too scratched up), then I place my right hand/arm around the middle just above the back legs (so they are standing up). Then when we do the back feet I tilt just a bit so they stand on their back "elbow". We use our phone light to shine under and around the nail to check for the quick but always have the quik dry to stop the bleeding. I usually start with putting pressure on the nail for the count of 20 and then we put the powder on. We have hit the quick a few times, we both hate it! But it happens, even at the vet.

Hopefully things will all work out well. If not, know you did your best and don't beat yourself up about it.


----------



## A & B (Jun 26, 2019)

I just had my sister hold Bugs while I did his. I left his nails a bit longer than I would have liked to, but I can always finish them another day. I have never cut the quick! I have gotten close but never actually cut it. I will get Evie's done at the vet because I'm not comfortable handling her yet.


----------



## April LD (Jun 26, 2019)

Awesome, glad it worked...hope you gave him a treat...I forgot to mention  I usually give a piece of papaya after the front feet and then after the bottom feet - so they get used to the fact they get a treat. I will also will split a banana chip in half and they will get half for front and half for back. It helps with most of them...but I have a few that still hate nails - but it has to be done.


----------



## JBun (Jun 26, 2019)

I'm sorry it didn't work out, but I'm glad you decided to keep her. She seems like a sweet bunny despite her and Bugs issues. Your arrangement sounds good. And who knows, maybe once they have been around each other through their separate areas, and had time to really get used to each other being around, maybe they will settle down and you might be able to consider the possibility of bonding again. But if not that's fine too. I've had to keep rabbits in separate areas cause they just wouldn't get along, and it worked out just fine.


----------



## A & B (Jun 27, 2019)

It would be hard to give her up. I've grown attached to her and I love her personality and quirks. I wish there was a way that I could split my room in half so they weren't kept in cages, but even then I know Bugs could jump over whatever I put down the middle. 

I bought a 25 pound bag of pellets a few weeks ago. There is 4 cups for every pound. That would make 100 cups. Bugs and Evie eat a combined 1/4 cup of pellets a day. It would take 4 days for them to eat a cup. At this rate, it will be about 400 days until they finish the bag so over a year. I know they'll expire before then but I don't want to have to throw them out until I have to. Can I extend the expiration date by putting the pellets into the fridge or freezer? I bought the bag when I had Lola and they ate 3/4 cup a day combined so I figured the bag would last them about 4 or so months. Next time, I'll just get a smaller bag.


----------



## zuppa (Jun 29, 2019)

Good question! I buy 10 kg bags too and bought two last time because delivery is cheaper that way. I have more bunnies than you and only one is a dwarf so I am pretty sure we'll eat all of them before next August but I think that storing in a cool dry place won't hurt. Not sure if they will stay dry in the fridge?


----------



## KritterKam (Jun 29, 2019)

Alyssa and Bugs♡ said:


> I've done some thinking and I will be keeping Evie for multiple reasons. One being that it's not her fault Bugs is a bit of a meanie. She's finally found a family and we are all so attached to her. I have the means to support her and when it comes time for me to go to college, I'll have to decide what I'll do then. I can also attempt bonding at some point in the future. My mom and I discussed where we could keep her, but there's no where else in my house that's safe for a bunny and where she will get attention. We have 3 dogs and a cat and I don't want her to be in danger or feel unsafe. I will be building her a multi-level condo and she will have an x-pen around the condo as a "run". She will be allowed a few hours of time outside the cage. The reason being that with the pen, she will still be able to run and burn some energy, and I feel it's not fair for Bugs to be locked in a cage as he hates it. Evie doesn't seem to mind, as long as she has toys.
> 
> I will not be continuing with bonding. It's too risky at this point.
> 
> Sorry I've posted a ton today.


it does take a while to bond.... not always immediate... did you try putting on on a cage within the mutual cage so they can sniff and get used to the smells and presence of one another?


----------



## KritterKam (Jun 29, 2019)

feel free to watch out kritters 24/7 
http://bark-9.com/KRITTER.html


----------



## A & B (Jun 29, 2019)

KritterKam said:


> it does take a while to bond.... not always immediate... did you try putting on on a cage within the mutual cage so they can sniff and get used to the smells and presence of one another?


They are allowed to sniff each other through the cage bars. I'm going to wait at least a month before attempting to bond again.

The bunnies had their checkup earlier today and the vet said they both looked good. Evie actually weighs half a pound more than Bugs does! She looks way smaller than him. Bugs was making a mess and being crazy and he had the vet and vet techs all laughing at him. Everyone in the vet office came back to pet and look at them. I had a blanket and hay in his carrier and he pushed everything out! It was pretty funny. Whenever the vet would look at him, he would push her hand away. The vet looked at Evie's eyes and ears and she said everything looked fine, which was a huge relief for me. The vet said that we need a Flemish because Evie and Bugs are so tiny, to balance it out. My mom said absolutely not because they're huge. I'd like to have a Flemish, but I don't have the space or money for one now anyway.

Yesterday, my mom sent me a picture of the litter of English Spots her boss's bunny just had and she said her boss will give me one for free. Her boss knows about Bugs and Evie and he said he can't imagine a better place for one of them to go. My mom said she doesn't necessarily want another bunny in the house, but she thinks it's up to me to decide if I want a third. I am aware of the risks of getting a third, but then I could attempt to bond it with Bugs or Evie or even potentially both of them. I'd probably get a female because I could bond her with either of them and I could form a trio if I wanted to. I know it's not an ideal way of getting one of them a friend (and I'm not declaring Bugs and Evie un-bondable right now either). I'm okay with having a pair and a single, but I'm not completely opposed to the idea of having them three separate either. It's something I will just have to think about. I'm pretty content with Bugs and Evie now.


----------



## A & B (Jul 4, 2019)

Happy 4th to all of you Americans from Bugs, Evie, and I! I don't have a picture of Evie because these were taken a couple of months ago and she doesn't like things on her head.


----------



## Butterscotch (Jul 4, 2019)

Alyssa and Bugs♡ said:


> Happy 4th to all of you Americans from Bugs, Evie, and I! I don't have a picture of Evie because these were taken a couple of months ago and she doesn't like things on her head.View attachment 41697


What a handsome boy!! Happy 4th of July!!!!


----------



## A & B (Jul 4, 2019)

I put Bugs and Evie together in a laundry basket in our basement. Neither bun has been down here so it's 100% neutral. I planned to be down here for 15 minutes tops, but it's half an hour later. There was a nip from Evie because Bugs was in her way but he didn't nip back and it didn't escalate. Bugs did thump, so there's that, but that's probably because he's bored and hates being in small spaces. There has been lots and lots of kisses, which I was not expecting at all. Evie has given most of the kisses and when she wants kisses back, she will ask me instead of him. I think she likes how his fur feels because hers is way different.

I'm trying to not get my hopes up, but I may actually have a bonded pair! I'm probably going to take it very slow this time though.


----------



## JBun (Jul 4, 2019)

I'm glad you're trying again. I do feel like they are bondable and that they both really like each other. I think that Bugs just needs to get used to having a bossy girl bun around. Once he can do that I think things will go more smoothly.


----------



## Butterscotch (Jul 5, 2019)

Yay!! Great news! They make such a cute couple!


----------



## A & B (Jul 5, 2019)

I do think that the week long break they had helped. There has been no nips today and only one yesterday. They have been together for almost an hour in the laundry basket and there has been lots of kisses and snuggling. The next session will be done in the bathtub, granted the rest of this session goes well. If there's nipping, we will go back to the previous step. I won't move on if there's nipping because they've already shown me that it can and will escalate. 

Whenever I think about then being bonded and living together, it makes me nervous. I don't want a fight when I'm not home to break it up. Is it normal to be anxious about them being together? I would like to get them bonded by the end of this month so I have most of next month to be sure they're going to be okay together all day before school starts up again. At this rate, they will be (hopefully) at least spending nights together without problems in a week or two. 

(Sorry the picture is dark, my kitchen isn't the most well-lit area)


----------



## A & B (Jul 6, 2019)

Bugs ate over half of the rasins in the bag today. My sister loves to come in and give the bunnies a treat once a day. Today, she left the bag of rasins on a stool near the litter box. I came home from work to discover the bag of rasins chewed open and most of them eaten. That's a ton of sugar and I can't imagine how his little tummy feels. I'm suprised he didn't eat them all. He's not pressing his tummy to the ground and he's acting normal so I'm just going to keep an eye on him. I'll probably give him a couple doses of simethicone as a precaution throughout the rest of the day. I'm guessing it'll probably affect his poos and appetite for a while, but I'll keep an eye on him. He just flopped on the air vent, so he is still himself.

Can't say I'm mad at him. If someone left a bag of candy in my room, I'd eat most of it too.


----------



## Sissy (Jul 7, 2019)

I hope he's ok after that sugar rush! He must have thought it was his birthday.

This little poppet I recently rehomed ate a tiny piece of a coat lining this morning! There was I thinking it was good that he never seemed to chew fabrics, though he will go for carpet. Am keeping him running round and encouraging him to have extra hay, just in case.


----------



## JBun (Jul 8, 2019)

Naughty boy Bugs! I hope he didn't get too much of an upset tummy from all that sugar.

Yes it's normal to feel a bit anxious about the bonding process and leaving the two of them together. I always felt apprehensive about a fight possibly breaking out too. Once they are bonded, it's not like minor scuffles stop altogether, it's that the rabbits lowest in the pecking order learn to handle the 'boss' rabbit asserting it's dominance better to avoid conflict occurring. So with my rabbits, one bunny that's higher in the pecking order, will chase after one of the lower rabbits. She might just nip one of them to get out of her way, or chase after them if they don't move fast enough or she's bugged at them for some reason. And they just move out of her way or run away to get away from her. Now if one of them didn't move or run away and nipped back at her, then a full out fight could occur. So it's not that nipping and minor chasing isn't going to occur with Bugs and Evie, it's that one of them has to decide to be the submissive bunny and put up with or avoid the dominant bunny's behavior. I'm guessing Evie is probably going to be the 'boss' bunny, so Bugs needs to decide he's ok with her being in charge, then they will be able to be fully bonded.


----------



## A & B (Jul 8, 2019)

Surprisingly, he was okay. He put on a couple ounces and will not be getting treats until he's back under 4 pounds which is where his weight's always been. 

I did figure out why Evie nips at him and it'll be easy for them to overcome it. She does most of the grooming but occasionally she wants to be groomed back, which is understandable. They are now being put into the bathtub for sessions and there has been no scuffs and I haven't had to intervene (aside from petting them both when they seem tense). Saturday, Evie flopped into Bugs as he was sleeping in a loaf position. When he realized she was there, he went to the other side of her and flopped and rested his head on hers! There has been no chasing at all which surprises me. I'm guessing that when they're bonded and have my whole bedroom to run in that there may be some playful chasing because they're both very active. Evie is definitely the dominant one. I just ordered a ton of new toys that they will get when they're bonded. I enjoy watching Bugs play with a toy for a minute then lose interest and then giving it to Evie and letting her shred it to pieces. It will be fun having Bugs back to being free roam again and having Evie experience free roaming for the first time. 

On a completely unrelated note, I have began growing cilantro and parsley and today it has begun to sprout!


----------



## A & B (Jul 10, 2019)

Why is it that I'm finding bonding so hard? We're so close yet so far. It really makes me wonder how well I know my rabbits and rabbits in general. I'm so ready for it to be over now. We've gotten to the point where there are no scuffs and I can usually stop nipping by yelling "Be nice!" but before they can live together Evie needs to stop nipping Bugs just because she can. Bugs loves her so much and he will lay next to her whenever she's doing anything but instead of snuggling with him, she nips him. She ran up to him and nipped his foot after he flopped. The bunnies spent 2 hours together last night and Evie would nip Bugs whenever he's sleeping or just sitting next to her. She does it whenever she feels like it. I think that if after today if she's still nipping just for the fun of it even after I tell her to stop doing it, I'm going to use the spray bottle. I plan to keep them together for 6 hours today but we'll see how that goes.


----------



## A & B (Jul 10, 2019)

Bugs and Evie drank out of the (small) water bowl at the same time with no nipping! This gives me hope that there won't be nipping over the litter box.


----------



## A & B (Jul 11, 2019)

I was going to allow them to sleep together tonight because they went almost 2 hours without me needing to intervene but out of nowhere, Evie jumped on Bugs and humped him. I think it may be because we're in my room and she feels the need to protect her space. They made it past the bathtub stage and I wanted to use a bigger area but we will be going back to the bathtub for the next few sessions.


----------



## shelley smith (Jul 11, 2019)

I'm also bonding at the moment and finding it very hard
When you say nipping is she biting him as mine seem to bite each other enough to peirce the skin


----------



## Lionheadloady (Jul 12, 2019)

It will come together with time and patience! I definitely recommend letting them outside together in a pen as they are in a completely neutral territory. This worked for my buns! Hope this helps!


----------



## A & B (Jul 12, 2019)

shelley smith said:


> I'm also bonding at the moment and finding it very hard
> When you say nipping is she biting him as mine seem to bite each other enough to peirce the skin


They never break the skin. There is fur pulled sometimes though. The only time skin has been broken was when Bugs and Lola fought during my previous bonding attempt.


----------



## A & B (Jul 12, 2019)

Lionheadloady said:


> It will come together with time and patience! I definitely recommend letting them outside together in a pen as they are in a completely neutral territory. This worked for my buns! Hope this helps!


I would take them outside but it's so humid! I can't imagine what the humidity would feel like with a thick fur coat!


----------



## A & B (Jul 12, 2019)

My grandma just bought a house right down the street from mine. She's not currently living it as they're painting it and putting new flooring in. I can't believe I haven't thought to take the bunnies over there for sessions! Ugh, I'm so dumb.


----------



## Butterscotch (Jul 13, 2019)

Alyssa and Bugs♡ said:


> My grandma just bought a house right down the street from mine. She's not currently living it as they're painting it and putting new flooring in. I can't believe I haven't thought to take the bunnies over there for sessions! Ugh, I'm so dumb.


Great idea! You would have several choices of neutral territory over there.


----------



## A & B (Jul 15, 2019)

They're doing well since doing sessions at her house. I even feel comfortable walking away for a few seconds. The only thing holding them back is Evie's constant humping. I'm not intervening at all now though. She will do it when he asks to he groomed. She knows he's going to run if she does it from behind so she does it on his head. When she does it he doesn't nip or try to get free and he just kind of accepts that she's going to do it regardless. I'm not sure what to do to get her to stop though. I'm guessing that it will stop with time. There will be some minor chasing after she does it, but they stop within a second or two. There was either honking or grunting during today's session when she was humping. It wasn't loud enough for me to decipher between the two though. It only makes sense that it was Bugs grunting.

As we get closer and closer to move in day, the more nervous and excited I get. My grandma is moving in on the 27th so I have until then to finish bonding. I'm going to try and get the bonding done this week and do overnights and cement next week. Cementing will be done in my room though. I'm going to be rearranging my room and washing literally everything before they're put in there. That means washing my blankets and basically inviting Bugs to pee all over them. Fun times.


----------



## A & B (Jul 16, 2019)

We're having an overnight session! It's almost 2 in the morning and they've been together for 6 hours with only one hump and an attempt. They've been kissing, snuggling, flopping and sharing the litter box. There hasn't been any nipping! They both think it's fun to climb all over me while I try to sleep. I'm not sure if I should move them in together if she's still humping though. I'm going to have another overnight tomorrow night and then I'll begin cementing. I'll pay my sister to watch the bunnies while I'm at work. 

The toys that I ordered from the HRS website came today and the bunnies have already shredded most of the toys. They've been sharing them and it's adorable. Bugs has this habit of taking the hay piece that she's eating out of her mouth and just dropping it so she can't finish it.


----------



## Sunshine's Fine (Jul 16, 2019)

Wow! it sounds like you've been working really hard at bonding those 2. It also seems like they're just about ready to be together permanently. I have 2 girls who are now 4 years old. I adopted them as a pair, so they were already bonded. One thing I've noticed is you've been worried about Evie humping Bugs. My littlest girl Annika, humps her sister Pippi all the time. I tried to stop it many times when I first got them, but nothing seemed to work. Now, I can see when it's coming and I say, "Watch out, Pippi, she's getting ready to hump your head!" and when it's over, "Go ahead and chase her, Pip, she deserves it!" They do scuffle occasionally and sometimes quite a bit of fur is pulled out, but I've never seen any blood drawn. I think there is always going to be one dominant bunny in any group, and they need to let everyone know about it. I was quite appalled when I first saw it, but it's all about dominance. Maybe Pippi does something that offends her, so that's why she does it? I don't know, but there's no way of stopping that I know of. I've had these 2 rascals for 3 1/2 years now and it doesn't seem to cause any permanent harm. I would just let them be bunnies. You are so lucky to have an empty house to use! Perfect for what you needed. You'll have to take them over to visit Grandma when she moves in.  Good luck, but I'm pretty sure you won't need it. I think all 3 of you are ready. <3


----------



## A & B (Jul 16, 2019)

In all of the articles I've read, none of them mention humping after they're bonded. I get very anxious at the idea of humping occurring when I'm not home because what if it upsets Bugs and he attacks her? He doesn't mind it when she does it now though. It confuses me because they hadn't humped at all until I started doing sessions at her house. I know the owners of her house previously had dogs and the house smelled like pee. The pee smell has gone away for the most part but I know they can still smell it. Maybe the smell of dog pee has caused him to smell like another animal and Evie doesn't recognize his scent anymore and feels the need to establish her dominance on the "foreigner". In that case, the humping will stop when they're in my room.

Tomorrow will be move in day! I'm so excited and nervous. I know that right now is the perfect time to do so. I don't have work tomorrow and I only work 3 hours Thursday. On Saturday, my mom and I are going to the movies. That will be the first time they are left alone completely.


----------



## A & B (Jul 17, 2019)

They fought and Bugs hurt Evie.

I woke up to find Bugs and Evie fighting and a ton of fur pulled. Above Evie's eye, there is blood. It's a little past 1 am and I have one carrier and I don't feel comfortable walking home alone. Before I fell asleep, I remember there was nipping and they seemed tense but I thought nothing of it. I'm so close to giving up. Maybe it wasn't meant to be. Again. 

In the meantime, I have to wait at least 5 hours until my mom can bring me a second carrier. I'm definitely not going back to sleep. I just texted my brother though. Hopefully he decided to stay up late tonight.


----------



## A & B (Jul 17, 2019)

Oh yeah, here's her eye. Don't mind my hand.


----------



## A & B (Jul 17, 2019)

Picture didn't attach.


----------



## A & B (Jul 22, 2019)

There's a lot of stuff I need to update you guys on so be prepared for a long post. 

I'm so dissapointed about how bonding went. I really wanted Bugs to have a friend to improve his quality of life but it seems that I've made it worse. I love Evie so there's no way I'm giving her up. She's just perfect. I've wanted a bonded pair ever since I started researching rabbits when I was 11. I could have adopted a bonded pair and that would have made my life 100× easier but that completely slipped my mind. Bugs's whole life I've prided myself on (for the most part) knowing what I'm doing and to have 0 idea what I'm doing during bonding despite doing research got to me.

I can't continue bonding. There's no way I could ever trust them together when I'm not there to supervise. They did so well until they just weren't multiple times. I can't stop thinking about what would have happened if they fought when I wasn't home. They don't seem to be bothered about not being together. Evie's eye is healing nicely so that's great.

I'm redoing the pen and bunny area as soon as I have the money to (more on that later) and when I actually know how I want to do it. I know that for sure I want to get foam puzzle mats for flooring and new water bowls, probably the ones that clamp onto the bars because the next time I have to clean up spilled water I'm not going to be happy. I watched Evie tip the bowl over today because she wanted me to hurry up and go wash her veggies. The chicken wire and nails in the pen is actually becoming dangerous. I made sure everything was safe for the bunnies but not for myself. I get impaled by the wire and there's a nail holding the fake wood into the table (top of the pen) that looks like it's waiting for me to sit up under it. Ouch. I also want to have a giant cardboard box(es) going all around the perimeter of the pen like a tunnel. They definitely seem bored of the pen setup. 

My sister (12) has offered to let Evie live in her room and I'm trying to decide if I am going to go that route. Bugs and I's relationship has been so bad since getting another bunny. He runs from me and won't sleep on my bed at all. It breaks my heart. The only issue is that my sister has a 3 pound dog that lives in her room also so the pen and condo would have to be secured very well. The dog is actually terrified of the bunnies but I can't risk her getting hurt. She would have time outside of the cage whenever my sister is in her room and a pen attached to her condo if she wanted to run. I need advice on this badly. If you need more information on this setup idea, let me know. 

Okay, finally onto my money issues. I'm 14 working a minimum wage job. I'm legally allowed to work 18 hours a week (that number is higher in the summer too, I think it's 25 but I could be wrong) and I've gotten 3-5 hour weeks all summer and it was like that occasionally before summer too. That's like $30 at the most after taxes. I probably spend $20 a week at least on the bunnies so I have no money in my vet funds which is incredibly risky. Not to mention that I have no money for cage renovations or to buy them toys as often as I'd like to. It's frustersting. I've already asked for more hours and I still get the same. I'm in the process of getting another job but it's very hard to find another place that will hire me. 

Please excuse any grammar/spelling mistakes. It's almost 1 in the morning and I'm tired. Thanks for reading


----------



## Butterscotch (Jul 22, 2019)

I'd like to preface this by saying I know absolutely nothing about bonding yet but I get the impression from your blog that Bugs and Evie don't hate each other, they're still just working things out. Do you think that if you go back to taking it really slow you might have some success further on down the bonding road? I'm really disappointed for you too, I was so hoping this would work out for you and Bugs and Evie.


----------



## A & B (Jul 23, 2019)

I don't think they're completely unbondable either, but since the fight I have noticed a lot of aggression from Bugs towards Evie. He's never been any bit aggressive so this is a complete shock to me. I do think that if I took it very slow it may work eventually. 

I spent all day yesterday redoing the pen and my room and I love how the pen turned out. It's now 6ft by 4ft, 2×4 feet bigger than the last pen setup. Now they can actually run around when they're in the pen and I'm hoping it keeps them entertained. 

I was woken up 10 minutes ago to find Bugs in the pen attacking Evie. I think she was able to get away from him because she was in the box while he was standing next to a pile of her fur. I have 0 idea how he got in there so I have no idea how to fix it. There's nothing near the pen that he can jump up on. The hay box and litter is directly next to the pen and my organizer thing is next to that but he can't get from my organizer thing to the box and get in. I'm guessing he climbed it which is weird because he's never been a good climber and there's no way he jumped over it because he's not a great jumper either. I don't even recognize him anymore...

I just asked him to show me how he got in and he got in the litterbox and put his paws on the pen bars. He definitely went in through the top.


----------



## A & B (Jul 26, 2019)

I made a digging box for the bunnies and they love it! I haven't made one until now because I didn't know what to put in it. I wanted something that would seem natural but I can't use sand or dirt because that would be a nightmare to get out of their fur. I am using Kaytee Soft Granule Blend bedding in it along with a few apple and willow sticks. I only made one because I know if it wasn't in the pen they wouldn't use it. The bedding gets stuck to their paws and it gets tracked everywhere but at least they're having fun with it. Bugs is digging in it as I type now. @Butterscotch I can't remember what you're using in your digging box. If they don't use theirs much I recommend getting some of this. I believe the bag was a little under $6 for 10 liters. 

I think I may start having play dates with the bunnies so they can be around another bun occasionally. That can also help me decide if I should bond them or not. My grandma is moving in her house tomorrow so that makes bonding harder for me because I have no where to do overnights. I think that after Bugs got into the pen and attacked her, I may have hurt their chances of ever bonding because I didn't force them to snuggle. I wish I would have thought to do that then. I'm the worst bunny momma sometimes.

I think I found a new job so I'm pretty excited! I'll get at least triple the hours I get at my current job and I'll be paid more. I have a good chance of getting the job because my mom's friend owns it.

My mom's boss has bunnies and he bred them a few months ago. The babies are going to their new homes but when they weren't selling he said he was going to let the babies go outside if they weren't all gone by this weekend. My mom offered to take all of them so we could find them homes ourselves. Some older guy took all of them and is apparently going to breed them constantly. I was going to take one but I wouldn't have been ready for one by tomorrow. I do miss my little 8 week old though. If Bugs and Evie bond, then I'll take in another. Her boss doesn't believe in getting his animals fixed because of his religious beliefs and he was pretty rude when he learned my two are fixed. I'll probably tell him that she's probably going to get cancer if they don't spay her but ultimately, that's his decision. I'm going to attach a picture of some of the babies along with one of Bugs playing in the digging box.


----------



## Butterscotch (Jul 26, 2019)

First of all, it would only take a quick peek on Craigslist to provide absolute proof that you couldn't possibly be the worst bunny mom ever. That's just not possible. 

Second, thank you for the dig box suggestion! Mine was not a hit. It just became another litter box. I will most definitely try your suggestion!

Congrats on the new job!!! That's very exciting! I hope you love it!

I have some stern words for your mom's boss but I will keep those to myself. Those are gorgeous bunnies tho! Do you think you'll ever have 3 rabbits? I think if my house was bigger I'd have a pair for every room (I'm exaggerating but I'd definitely have more than one pair). I am so in love with these little furry critters! I'm sad I wasted so may years of my life not knowing what great pets rabbits can be.


----------



## A & B (Jul 26, 2019)

I'm suprised mine hasn't been used as a litter box yet. I totally expected it to be.

I would love to have a third, but it's just not the right time for me, Bugs, and Evie. They're English Spots. I have no doubt that there will be another litter in the near future unfortunately. 

I got Bugs off of Craigslist and when I was searching for a bun, I saw many mistreated or unhappy ones and it still breaks my heart. I wish I could take them all in.


----------



## A & B (Jul 27, 2019)

I put the bunnies together today because I'm determined to get them bonded. I was expecting fighting but instead they groomed each other! They seem to love each other and that their fight was a sign that they weren't ready and I rushed it. I have a little under a month to get them bonded before I have school. I'd like to get them bonded in 2-3 weeks so I have a week to cement before I move them into my room. I'm not going to rush the process though. I just wish I knew how the fight started.


----------



## Butterscotch (Jul 27, 2019)

Yay!! I've heard bonding can take months. I really think you have a good pair, Alyssa. I have no experience to back that up but my gut just tells me your rabbits don't hate each other and they have the potential to get along eventually. I've read a lot of books and stories lately and I never got the impression from your stories that this is a lost cause for you. I just think patience is the key. I think you're doing a fabulous job, I really do!


----------



## A & B (Jul 27, 2019)

Evie spends too much of her time around a lop [emoji14]


----------



## A & B (Aug 1, 2019)

Bonding has been going amazing. Probably another week of sessions then we'll do cementing. Bugs is incredibly clingy but she doesn't mind at all. They're both very happy around each other. The only issue we're having is that Bugs hates being humped, but during yesterday's session he allowed it for a few seconds before running away. If all continues to go well, Sunday/Monday I'll use the pen instead of the tub. I find that the humping has slowed down because they've been in the tub for sessions for almost a week instead of switching areas every few sessions. My sister has offered to switch bedrooms for a few days to a week for cementing. The length of time we cement depends on when they are bonded. I'd like to finish bonding next week, cement the week after that and then I have a week to get them settled in before I start school. I'm nervous that something is going to happen that sets them back. I don't want to rush the process but I don't want to hold them back either. Last time they were perfect until they weren't, probably because I rushed it. I can't imagine if they had fought when I moved them in together. I'm getting a camera just so I don't have to worry when I'm not home.


----------



## A & B (Aug 7, 2019)

I have a lot to update you guys on, so be ready for a long one.

A couple days ago my parents and I got into an argument about the bunnies. My parents told me that the bunnies are ruining my life. They also told me that if I have another bonding session, they'll get rid of them. My dad said he might get rid of them just because he can. That's bs because I don't make him buy anything for them, he doesn't do their laundry or dishes, he doesn't clean up after them and he doesn't even need to pay them any attention. My mom disagrees on him with that thankfully. My mom however, thinks that because Bugs and Evie are never going to be friends (her words completely), it's selfish to keep her and that Evie has only been a problem because "Bugs hates her". The only one that would benefit from getting rid of her would be Bugs but even then, he loves her. This is a surprise because I knew my mom didn't like Lola but I had no idea she didn't like Evie. She refers to both bunnies as her grandbunnies so I figured she loved them both. I'm incredibly frustrated, especially because they were so close to being bonded. I can always try to bond them in a few years when I move out though. I've been told to not talk about the bunnies because I'm "obsessed", so that makes my next point incredibly difficult to deal with.

I think Bugs and Evie are getting sick. They both have sneezing fits often and Bugs's eye is running (not severely, but the fur is clumped together and he has been having very dark and occasionally, small poops. I read that eye problems are related to the teeth and that could also be a cause of his poop problems but he's eating fine and aside from his sneezing and eye, I wouldn't have suspected anything. His sneezes are quiet and I have to be watching him to notice it but Evie's sneezing is violent. She sneezes more than Bugs (either that or I don't notice his as often, which is a possibility) and it's very loud. Nothing is coming out of their noses. It has to be something that one of them got and passed it to the other. My sister's cat just had a severe eye issue (his whole eye turned red and leaked so much it was all down his chest) and I'm wondering if because Bugs's eye started leaking right after he was let out into the living room where the cat is most of the time, our cat passed it to Bugs through the carpet somehow. That does seem like a stretch though.


----------



## A & B (Aug 17, 2019)

I've been thinking a lot about what my next move with the bunnies is and I think I've come up with a plan. I really want them to be bonded more than anything. If I can't bond them myself, I'll have to find someone who can. Around spring I'd like to board both bunnies with the lady that did the dates for the rescue so she can bond them. I can't find anywhere on their website that says they offer that service but I bet we could arrange something. It's worth a shot. Bugs has been sitting and just watching Evie all day and I can't imagine how much he misses snuggling with her.

I did get the new job! I'm working a lot more and I'm loving it. My check on Tuesday will be a little over $200 and that's going to go towards the new pen setup and vet funds, along with a few more things I need to get before school starts on the 26th. It's going to be hard to manage my time with working almost everyday, school and homework, taking care of the bunnies and making sure they get lots of attention, and making sure I'm taking care of myself mentally and physically but I'll do it.

Bugs is starting to come around again! I've been giving him love for at least 20 minutes a day (same with Evie) and he's actually ventured up onto my bed again! He's digging at my blankets, but hey, it's something.

There was more that I wanted to share but I can't remember what so that's it for now!


----------



## thelaurelcrowned (Aug 19, 2019)

Alyssa,

I love following your little blog, and I just wanted to pop in here to say that you're doing a fantastic job and that it is ok if you take a breather and just let the buns be by themselves for a bit. I love my rabbits -- they're so important to me, but you also come first, and Bugs is also probably fine on his own for a bit...animals don't think like us. They live in the moment and while, yes, they can be lonely, it's not as horrible as it is for us because they can't think the thought that 'oh woe is me! I have been abandoned and am unloved!' So don't be too hard on yourself about it. I remember being your age and thinking that my animals must miss each other when they had to be kept separate...and in all honestly, the may have been a little lonely but they were also just fine


----------



## A & B (Sep 4, 2019)

I thought I'd update because I (temporarily) have a 3rd rabbit. 

The story behind this is very simple, my neighbor has a rabbit that she decided she didn't want anymore and I agreed to take him in and find him a new home. She seemed to think she knew everything about how him and I didn't have the heart to tell her she was doing it wrong. She invited me in to see him and he was laying right by the door by one of her five dogs. He let me pick him up very easily and submit to my pets I gave him. She showed me what she fed him (spring mix with iceberg, lots of carrots, and a muesli mix). His poos were very tiny and I didn't see any hay. I get the feeling that I'm really going to struggle getting him to eat hay and eat the pellets which will be something new. He's a REW and the sweetest little boy. If I had the space for him I'd gladly keep him, he's perfect. If any of you are willing to take him or know of anyone who can, please let me know! I'm going to keep him until his diet/litter training/poos are 100% then he'll be ready. If nobody here on RO can take him I will message the rescue but they're full at the moment. He's going to be kept in my sister's room so it doesn't disrupt Bugs and Evie's routine. 

There's more I'd like to discuss but I want to share this asap!


----------



## A & B (Sep 5, 2019)

I have some questions about new bun because it's been a year since I've had a little baby. I'm going to be using the extra xpen panels and a dog crate as his cage. I was not planning on taking him in so I have next to no time to prepare. I did order him some young bunny pellets (oxbow). He will get let out when he's litter trained and then he will be out while my sister is at school. She said she'd keep her dog out of her room and the door closed whenever she's gone. Despite him staying in her room, it's my responsibility to feed/clean/groom/monitor droppings. I really don't want to put him up for adoption because he's a REW and we all know how discriminated against REW's are. I'd like to find him a home myself. Is REW a breed? If not, I have no idea as to what he could be. My questions are:
Does hay have to be introduced?
Should I continue feeding him spring mix because he is used to having it?
Is getting him on veggies or getting him on correct pellets more important? 
If he doesn't take to the pellets or hay, could I put him with Bugs or Evie so they can show him to eat the food? This would NOT be a bonding session and will be very heavily supervised.

Thank you!


----------



## Hermelin (Sep 5, 2019)

Most important would be introducing hay and slowly change his diet so the stomach won’t get upset [emoji5]


----------



## A & B (Sep 6, 2019)

My sister and I went over to our neighbors house so she could meet him and long story short, my neighbor ended up handing him to me and telling us to take him then. We weren't ready and the cage wasn't at all set up but she insisted we took him then. His alfalfa pellets aren't here so I had to use his muesli mix. There are pellets in that but he won't even touch those. Before bed I just gave him some of it so he doesn't starve. He really likes the hay and is using the litter box! He's such a sweetie and acts like a little of Evie and a little of Bugs. He really likes to dig and has already flopped multiple times that I've seen. He likes to spill his water bowl then sit in the water while grooming himself. He's such a good little boy and I wish I could keep him. I sent a message to the rescue and my mom put out a message on her Facebook and she said that if anyone on there takes him she'll give them my phone number. I'm going to put out a post here on RO in a bit. I may put an ad out on Craigslist but I'm hesitant to do that because I don't want him to either end up as snake food or go to a place that won't treat him as well as I'd like. If I did that I would be very strict on who he'd go to. I know not everyone on Craigslist is bad because I got Bugs off of the site. His name is Snowball. He's going to get decently big because he's about the same size as Evie already and he's only 3-4 months old. My mom has a few pictures that are better quality than mine is so I'll post them later.


----------



## A & B (Sep 6, 2019)

Picture didn't attach.


----------



## JenGibs (Sep 6, 2019)

Please get him off the Iceberg lettuce. Rabbits cannot have that.


----------



## A & B (Sep 6, 2019)

JenGibs said:


> Please get him off the Iceberg lettuce. Rabbits cannot have that.


I am aware of that. I threw that away instantly. He's not being given any veggies until I get his diet straight anyway. The spring mix was given to Bugs and Evie.


----------



## thelaurelcrowned (Sep 16, 2019)

It's been a little bit since you updated this space -- how's the new bun doing? How about Bugs and Evie?


----------



## A & B (Sep 19, 2019)

I've typed 3 different responses this week but now I finally have found some time to actually post. With school being back in session I've been trying to get back into a routine and finding time for the forum isn't easy.

Bugs and Evie are doing amazing. Bugs got into some more human food this morning and he's been chewing holes in my clothes like crazy lately but that's just Bugs. I had a pop tart on my fridge earlier and when I left to grab our laundry I came back and he was eating it. It was smores flavored but I'm not too concerned as it wasn't real chocolate/marshmallow. I gave him some simethicone before I left for school and he's still doing good 13 hours later. Yesterday when I went to give them their veggies they were completely spoiled. They were only 4 days old so I wasn't expecting them to be that bad. I took out the few pieces of good veggies out of the bag and then harvested the cilantro and parsley I've been growing. I felt bad because they didn't have nearly as many veggies as usual. Evie's doing perfectly. Her and my mom have actually become best friends recently. I stayed with my grandmother a few weeks ago and left my mom in charge of the bunnies. She said Bugs drove her insane but Evie behaved herself the whole time. She called me as she was giving them their pellets and it was pretty funny. He gets incredibly excited when he smells pellets and if you don't hurry up he'll dig at your leg to make sure you didn't somehow forget which she didn't appreciate.

Snowball is a completely different story. I love him but I can't wait for him to go to his new home. He deserves much more than I can offer. I sent Larry a PM last night but haven't heard anything back yet. I'm working on getting him to Las Vegas but I'm not having much luck. 

I'm incredibly tired and I haven't even made a dent in my homework yet so I'm going to end it here. I'll try and update as soon as I can.


----------



## A & B (Oct 8, 2019)

I feel like it's been too long since I've updated! It's been pretty chaotic lately with work, school, Homecoming, and making sure I'm setting aside time to give the bunnies attention daily.

Bugs and Evie's half birthday is later this month and I think I might order them some new toys. I've been making their toys recently and I might get some basic wooden chews and dip them in fruit and then dry them. I was scrolling through some pictures of my past hamster when I came across a picture of a diy house I used to make her. I completely forgot about it and I think I'm going to make large ones for Bugs and Evie. I used paper towels and napkins and I would wet then down and add another layer until I liked how thick it was. I even used fruits to dye it. My hamster never actually ate it but I'm sure Bugs will. Bugs eats cardboard after he chews it off his box. I'm sure it won't do much if he eats it and he's a good hay eater. 

I'm going to be starting a rabbit YouTube channel soon because I need a hobby but I'm struggling to film my first video. I can't decide if I want to do an introduction video where I introduce the bunnies and I or if I start making actual videos right away. I'm very socially awkward and the many times I've tried filming I sound stupid or I leave out an important detail. Making the diy bunny houses may be a good video because people (myself included) love those types of videos. Should I even bother with an introduction? You guys always have good advice. 

The bunnies have been very photogenic lately so I'm going to share those pictures. Evie doesn't like her picture taken but Bugs loves it. The first picture is from this morning when I was making my bed and put the blanket on Bugs. It kind of looks like he was sleeping under the covers on my pillow! Bugs has been sleeping on my bed recently after months of him not even venturing up there so I had to take advantage of it and get a picture.


----------



## April LD (Oct 8, 2019)

SO CUTE!

I think a quick intro of Bugs, Evie, and yourself then get right in to the homemade house. You'll be fine...you can always edit it as needed.
Good luck!!


----------



## BunnyCrazy (Oct 8, 2019)

I absolutely loooovvve reading your bunny blog and seeing the pics of your rabbits!!! You definitely have two of the most adorable rabbits ever


----------



## A & B (Oct 9, 2019)

Thank you both!


----------



## elliem (Oct 9, 2019)

If your video is as good as your blog - it will be brilliant!!


----------



## A & B (Oct 9, 2019)

I was going to film today but I'm starting to lose my voice. Probably because I spend too much time yelling at Bugs to stop eating stuff he shouldn't be eating. Also, Evie really needs to stop sitting with her head to the side. It freaks me out every time even though I know she's just watching Bugs.


----------



## A & B (Oct 15, 2019)

Snowball isn't allowed out of his cage in my sister's room and he can't come out into the living room because my dad doesn't like him and he pees and poops everywhere. I brought him into my room yesterday so he could explore while I got some homework done and Bugs flipped out. I've never seen Bugs get this aggressive before. He was making growling noises and running around his pen trying to find a way out. I have chicken wire wrapped around Bugs's pen but there's like an inch and a half gap on the side where the bunnies can bite each other. I haven't covered it because Bugs and Evie don't bother each other. When Bugs and Snowball realized there was that gap, all hell broke loose. Snowball was trying to sniff Bugs so when Bugs ran to that gap Snowball followed. I ended up pushing Snowball away and putting my hand over the gap. Bugs bit my hand and wouldn't let go. Bugs didn't realize it was me until I yelled "Ow Bugs, let go!" He looked up at me and let go. I'm glad it was me instead of Snowball's nose though. 

My mom and I briefly discussed bonding Snowball and Evie someday but because Bugs can't stand him I'm not going to stress him out by housing them in the same room. Plus, I swear Evie still loves Bugs. Whenever he jumps up onto the box next to her pen she runs to him and lowers her head. He never kisses her but instead usually nips her nose. I would like to put them together sometime in a very neutral space sometime to see if they hate each other. Their half birthday is Sunday and I might put then together for presents, cake, and pictures. It wouldn't be anything like a bonding session and if they looked stressed at all I would separate them immediately.

For some reason my pictures aren't uploading. I'll post them later (that is if I actually remember)


----------



## A & B (Nov 7, 2019)

It's been way too long since I've updated, I've been incredibly busy and didn't have time.

For starters, Snowball went to his foster home over the weekend. It was harder than I expected it to be but it was the right decision. If he still hasn't been adopted in a few months, I'm going to looking into adopting him but the chances of that are (hopefully) slim. He's the sweetest bunny I've ever met and I wish him the best. The woman from the rescue said he's most likely a New Zealand mix and he's going to be a big boy. I'm really going to miss him.

Bugs and Evie are probably going to the vet soon because they've both got some issues going on. Evie doesn't seem to have that great of vision and her eyes have this blob of fleshy stuff in the corner (I can get a better picture if needed).
The last time we were at the vet in July the vet brushed off my concerns as always and I think I need a second opinion. I've always had suspicions that our vet isn't as rabbit savvy as she claims to be but I can't get a new vet because that's the one my mom takes the other pets to and I'm not 18 so I can't register them somewhere else. Bugs has a weepy eye. I don't have a picture because he literally cannot sit still for two seconds but it's been going on for at least a month or two. He only gets the eye crusties (not even sure if that's a word lol) on that eye. 

Other than that, the bunnies are good and quirky as ever! They (and I) were cold all night because the temperatures got into the single digits and my room dropped to 60 freaking degrees overnight. It also snowed 



Oh, and I changed up the pens a bit. I'll get pictures later.


----------



## A & B (Feb 6, 2020)

Hi everyone!

Bugs and Evie have their own Instagram account! I post brief updates and fun pictures on there so if you're interested in what they've been up to these last few months, check it out and feel free to message us!


----------



## Mariam+Theo (Feb 6, 2020)

Aww! That was so cute! Thanks for sharing!


----------

