# Clumps of fur



## stitch&flopsy (Feb 19, 2014)

I have been finding these clumps of fur all around the bunnies area. These are coming from my rabbit Flopsy. I don't know why this is happening because it is February and they aren't molting. I don't know if it would be a health issue like not enough vitamins or what? Please if you know why this is happening or any advice tell me! ATTACH]8162[/ATTACH]


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## whiskylollipop (Feb 19, 2014)

Are the bunnies housed together? This is a sign of fighting. One bunny is biting out clumps of the other's fur. Separate them immediately, and give them all a thorough check for any injuries.


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## Imbrium (Feb 19, 2014)

*If* the bunnies in question are spayed/neutered/properly bonded then fighting, while a possibility, doesn't seem like the most likely one... especially if there's a LOT of fur but you never see any chase scenes or fights when you're around them (usually once fighting starts, it continues/escalates until the conflict is properly resolved via rebonding and, if applicable, spaying/neutering). Of course, if everyone involved isn't altered, no longer hormonal and properly bonded to the each other, then fighting could absolutely be the issue.

Are you *sure* Flopsy's not molting? Rabbits molt pretty freaking often and molt times can vary quite a bit... Gazzles, my Holland lop, is experiencing a fairly explosive molt as we speak.

If the rabbits are bonded, you do NOT want to separate them to the point where they can't see/smell each other as this can break their bond... however, it *would* be ok to separate them while keeping them in the same room (perhaps by dividing their territory with an x-pen or a wall of NIC grids as fencing). This way, you don't upset their bond if fighting isn't actually the problem, yet you'll be able to determine based on whether or not the clumps of hair continue to show up all over the place whether the cause is fighting or molting. Also, I would give Flopsy a thorough brushing/combing (or furminating... man, do I LOVE my furminator!) - if you find yourself pulling out clumps of hair during the grooming session, then that would point towards molting.

As Laura mentioned, it's definitely a really good idea to check everyone over for injuries just to make sure they're all ok.

If fighting does turn out to be the cause, then you'll need to keep the rabbits apart temporarily until you can get them re-bonded (not necessarily as difficult as it sounds, btw).


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## MustNotBuyMore (Feb 19, 2014)

First... are you absolutely sure she couldn't be pregnant? I had a rabbit I didn't know was pregnant until I started finding clumps of fur like that on the ground.

Second, fighting is not all that bad. It's normal for the rabbits, but if she actually has injuries on her, then you should separate them. If they are just nipping sometimes and not drawing blood or anything, I would let them work it out and be rabbits.


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## MustNotBuyMore (Feb 19, 2014)

What breed is she? My French lops molt once a year, so some rabbits don't molt very often. If she's a French Lop (which I doubt but many people name their frenchies Flopsy, lol) then I would not think she would be molting.


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## whiskylollipop (Feb 19, 2014)

Jennifer: Would molting fur come out in big clumps like that though? In the pic looks like it was pulled right off the bun from one skin area. I quite likely don't have as wide a range of experience as you do, but my bunnies have the same type of fur - longish and fluffy - and while they have had pretty vicious molts, the hair usually comes off individually or in little twisted tufts. Or in clouds (lol).

But when Merls and Rosey got into a scuffle once (sometime while we were all out), there were clumps of fur that looked JUST like that all over the floor. Aside from all the pulled fur, they looked calm and were grooming, so I thought the fight was over... but right after I cleaned up the fur, the little buggers were biting, grunting and flopping around again. I had to stick in a cage divider for the next few hours before I felt comfortable getting them out to reconcile over a big shared plate of veggies.

So that's why my mind immediately went to fighting, just 'cause they look fine one moment doesn't mean they won't scuffle the next!

But of course, stitch&flopsy, Jennifer makes a very good point and for all I know some buns may just be big shedders like that. Just keep a close eye on them to figure out how exactly the fur's been coming off


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## madkat (Feb 19, 2014)

This happened to our Rose a couple of years ago & we rushed her to the vet. She told us that Rose was nesting. Even though she didn't have another rabbit around it was just an instinct for her to do so. (She wasn't spayed at the time)


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## MustNotBuyMore (Feb 19, 2014)

Of course, it COULD be a false pregnancy. I would put a box in there in case she wants to nest.


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## Imbrium (Feb 20, 2014)

MustNotBuyMore said:


> fighting is not all that bad. It's normal for the rabbits, but if she actually has injuries on her, then you should separate them. If they are just nipping sometimes and not drawing blood or anything, I would let them work it out and be rabbits.



Honestly, I disagree. Rabbit fights can be mild, but they can also be vicious or even deadly. Unless the rabbits involved are all altered AND fully bonded, it simply isn't truly safe to leave them together unsupervised... and if they *are* altered/bonded, there should NOT be fights serious enough to result in significant amounts of fur pulling - disputes should be fairly rare and be more akin to a bit of bickering than an actual fight. With my girls, there's occasionally a nip on the bootie or a brief chase scene, but never more than that unless there's a legitimate problem with their bond... in which case, I have to get involved and help them repair it (the couple of times it's happened, a playdate on neutral territory solved things).



madkat said:


> This happened to our Rose a couple of years ago & we rushed her to the vet. She told us that Rose was nesting. Even though she didn't have another rabbit around it was just an instinct for her to do so. (She wasn't spayed at the time)



As for both the pregnancy and false pregnancy ideas, those didn't actually occur to me... which I suppose is because the OP's description was of "clumps of fur all around the bunnies area". I was under the impression that when a doe pulled fur for a pregnancy (false or legit), it tended to end up in a pile/nest somewhere. However, I've *never* actually witnessed a pregnancy or false pregnancy, so I'm hardly an expert on the matter.



whiskylollipop said:


> Jennifer: Would molting fur come out in big clumps like that though? In the pic looks like it was pulled right off the bun from one skin area.
> ...
> But when Merls and Rosey got into a scuffle once (sometime while we were all out), there were clumps of fur that looked JUST like that all over the floor. Aside from all the pulled fur, they looked calm and were grooming, so I thought the fight was over... but right after I cleaned up the fur, the little buggers were biting, grunting and flopping around again.



Molting fur coming out on it's own like that? Honestly, I'm not sure it's possible... but I wouldn't rule it out, either, as molts are pretty unpredictable even within the same bunny - one molt can differ greatly from the next. Molts are "anything can happen" wildcards. *However,* I can state definitively that if a bunny goes into a molt and isn't being brushed/combed often enough, it's entirely possible that they might pull out their OWN fur in big clumps during the molt and then wisely spit out the mouthful of fur... and that could easily look similar to fighting-related pulled fur.

Many molts start gradually and ramp up, but sometimes a molt will start out already going full-force with the bunny blowing their coat pretty explosively - in the latter situation, the molt can reach a severity that inclines a bunn to pull out molting fur by the mouthful overnight, before you even have a chance to realize they're molting and get on top of grooming the heck out of them... leading to a delightful game of analyzing hair clumps, watching behavioral clues like a hawk and furminating the heck out of the bunns so that you can determine ASAP whether the fur clumps resulted from a fight or a molt. I've had multiple false alarms where I got paranoid, suspecting a fight, only to have it turn out to be a violent molt.

The other reasons why I was inclined to suspect molting over fighting:
~ As I said, fighting of that severity tends to escalate to the point that it gets witnessed pretty quickly (like in your example, where you thought the fighting was over only to have it turn around and start right back up again).
~ Having been through the ordeal of an abruptly broken bond before, my own experience has taught me that the fighting happens pretty frequently until the bond is repaired; while it's easy to not witness the initial fight because you happen to not be around, it's never very long before you catch a subsequent fight in the act.
~ Molting happens far more often than bonds break
~ Rabbits who are not truly bonded and/or are unaltered and have reached sexual maturity ARE fairly inclined to have unexpected bursts of fighting... but since they should never be left alone together in those situations, there's theoretically no reason for fighting to be high on the list of probable causes.

~~~~~

*The TLDR of ALL of the responses in the thread is this:* we're really just all tossing out random theories/possibilities based on our own experiences involving "clumps of fur". There's some interesting brainstorming going on but absolutely no way to narrow down the possibilities, let alone agree on a "most likely culprit", without more information. _At this point, any of us could be right, any of us could be wrong and for that matter, NONE of us could be right._

*So pretty much... answers to the following questions would be immensely helpful and might allow us to help you get to the bottom of things:*

~ How many rabbits are housed in "the bunnies' area"?
~ What are their ages?
~ What are their genders?
~ Are they ALL spayed/neutered?
~ Have they ALL been properly bonded together?
~ How long ago did you start finding the clumps of fur?
~ Have you witnessed ANY signs of fighting, chasing or even just general dissension between Flopsy and another bunny in the time since first seeing fur clumps?
~ Does the fur seem to be coming from all over, or from a particular part of her body (for example, a rabbit pulling fur for a false or real pregnancy would pull primarily from their dewlap (neck) area and perhaps chest/stomach)?
_[Also, if it's not too much trouble, a picture showing the general appearance of her coat (bird's eye view is probably ideal) could potentially be helpful in regards to ruling molting in or out.]

_Anyone else have any relevant questions to add that I've overlooked?


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## stitch&flopsy (Feb 20, 2014)

First of all thank all of you guys for answering! here is more information (the answer to the questions Imbrium asked) 
~she is housed with another male rabbit
~She is 5 months old and stitch(he cage mate) also 5 months old
~Flopsy(the one losing the fur) is obviously a girl and Stitch is a boy:/
~ Stitch is fixed, he was fixed two weeks ago and Flopsy is not fixed
~they are properly bonded( they were raised by the same mom but aren't siblings
~I found the first clump of fur about 4 days ago
~I haven't seen ANY signs of fighting not even grunts they cuddle with each other constantly
~I believe the fur is coming from her neck or armpit areas 

Sadly there is a possibility she is pregnant just because for the first month and half that I had them both I thought and was told they were both girls so there was no rush to get them fixed. One more thing I want to say is that the reason that she isn't fixed is because the vet didn't want to do an operation on such a small bunny but that was a month ago and she has grown a lot sense so we will get her spayed ASAP. That is if she isn't pregnant:/


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## stitch&flopsy (Feb 20, 2014)

Sorry I forgot a pic here it is (she is the white one)


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## whiskylollipop (Feb 20, 2014)

Oh! Well from your answers, it does look like a pregnancy, either real or false, is likely to be the culprit here. Try palpating your fingers over her belly and see if you can feel any little grape-sized babies.


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## stitch&flopsy (Feb 20, 2014)

I can't feel any baby bunnies but she isn't nesting so I was wondering what that would mean


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## Tammy B (Feb 20, 2014)

Sounds like a pregnacy to me too..I had a female bunny that did the same thing not long ago she just started leaving hair like that randomly...I would do what someone else suggested and put a nest box in there for her and see what happens.I did that for my girl and within 4 days she had her litter.You also mentioned that she has gotten alot bigger over the last month,has her belly and chin gotten chubby?I had meadow for 27 days before she had her kits(she was pregnant when i rescued her but i didn't know at that time)over the month i had her i noticed that she got a chubbier in her belly(like she got wider lol)and her chin area got chubby too then the trying to nest with the hair at first and gathering hay too.Has he personality and behaviour changed at all?


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## MustNotBuyMore (Feb 20, 2014)

You should just put a box in and wait a month. If you aren't experienced, palpating will most likely be really hard. You have to set the rabbits up, place your palm under her stomach, and push up, squeezing your fingers together. I'm a rabbit breeder, and even I have problems palpating! It took me FOREVER to even feel anything. Before I could figure out palpating, I just watched their stomachs. If you see anything other than a rolling movement, you've got babies in there.

Just put a box in now... because if she really is pulling fur, she's probably less than a week out from kindling.


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## MustNotBuyMore (Feb 20, 2014)

Oh, for a perfect nest box, put 1-2 inches of wood chips in the bottom (that you know are safe for rabbits, not cedar, I use pine), and fill the rest with an abundance of hay/straw/newspaper. I don't recommend paper, because it gets really dirty, but you can use it in a pinch. 

I hope you have healthy babies soon!  Sounds like you will! Good luck!


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## rabbits4life (Feb 20, 2014)

Maybe try a shoe box or something smaller so the rabbit feels safe.


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## stitch&flopsy (Feb 20, 2014)

She has gotten a bit wider but not by a very significant amount. Her personality has changed she has became much less active and not coming to me when I walk to the cage she isn't as excited about her pellets anymore. I have one more question with her being just five months could this pregnancy( if it's real) put HER in any sort of danger


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## MustNotBuyMore (Feb 20, 2014)

What breed is she? If she's a dwarf, then probably not. If she's a french lop, then it wouldn't even be possible.


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## whiskylollipop (Feb 21, 2014)

I doubt it, she'd be past her pubertal "teenage" stage so it shouldn't be too hard to birth the kits. You have to be prepared that first time moms, especially young ones, tend end up with a lot of dead kits. You'll have to keep a close eye on those who survive.


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## MustNotBuyMore (Feb 21, 2014)

Well, I wouldn't say usually... all of my first time moms have done great, young or not. I understand why you think that and it's partially true... but usually, rabbits tend to do well whether it's their first time or not. I definitely agree with the fact that she should be prepared though, because it can happen.


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## Tammy B (Feb 21, 2014)

How is Flopsy doing?
Have you put a box in with her?
What is her reaction?


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## stitch&flopsy (Feb 21, 2014)

Flopsy is doing well.. I did put a box in there with her but she hasn't touched it much she has sat in it a few times but not brought any hay or nesting items in there so I'm not sure what's she is doing would she be nesting already at about two and a half weeks into to her pregnancy


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## MustNotBuyMore (Feb 21, 2014)

If se is two and a half weeks pregnant, she would be about 18 days pregnant, so she would have 13 days still. She should not be nesting now. If she did, that would mean it would be a false pregnancy because rabbits don't nest that early. Or very rarely do they nest that early and carry to term.

She should start nesting in about 8-9 days. 

I'm glad she is doing well. Good luck!


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## Imbrium (Feb 22, 2014)

I'm really sorry I didn't get back to this sooner; got caught up in other stuff ><



stitch&flopsy said:


> First of all thank all of you guys for answering! here is more information (the answer to the questions Imbrium asked)
> ~she is housed with another male rabbit
> ~She is 5 months old and stitch(he cage mate) also 5 months old
> ~Flopsy(the one losing the fur) is obviously a girl and Stitch is a boy:/
> ...



They can't actually be considered fully bonded until they're BOTH altered AND their hormones are gone (which takes up to a month post-spay for females and up to 6-8 weeks for males; males can also potentially remain FERTILE for that long after a neuter). At this point in time, both of your bunnies are hormonal, making fighting a distinct possibility (and even if it hasn't yet, it could at any time).

If she's pregnant and you don't wish to have the kits (which may potentially suffer health issues as a result of such close inbreeding), it's possible to get an "emergency spay" up until around 2-2.5 weeks into the pregnancy (which I believe is no riskier than spaying a non-pregnant female, but of course it would be best to confirm that with your vet if you're considering one). It's technically the same thing as a regular spay, but since the uterus is removed during the spay surgery, it terminates the pregnancy. [As a note, based on your answers, I would also guess pregnancy or false pregnancy as the cause of all the fur.]

Regardless of what you do in regards to the possible pregnancy, you NEED to separate them ASAP. Make sure they're separated enough that they can't fight (or mate) through the cage/pen bars; as long as they can still see and smell each other while separated, they should be able to maintain the "baby bond" they formed as juveniles.

The separation absolutely needs to happen for a few reasons:
~ Both are hormonal, putting them at risk of hormone-induced fighting... which can be vicious or even deadly
~ Your male is probably still fertile, so if she isn't pregnant, he could potentially get her pregnant
~ If she's already pregnant, you *really* don't want him housed with her when she kindles - a male could kill the kits or stress them mom out to the point that she rejects them; also, females are ULTRA fertile for the first 72h or so after giving birth - the odds of back-to-back pregnancies is sky high if a fertile male is housed with a female during that time. Back to back litters are always very hard on a female's body, but they're especially so when she's young enough to still be growing.


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## HiddlesKenway (Mar 1, 2014)

Hello, someone news opinion here! 

I would say she sounds to be pregnant and if she's about two and a half weeks along. One of my does are at the same stage in her pregnancy (Also before anyone gets grumpy I'm a breeder of Dwarf and Cashmere Lops) she's mild tempered growls, snorts and lunges! Terrible little miss she is. 

Anyway back to my point some rabbits do on fact nest at two weeks along it's not unusual for them to try, have you noticed any holes in the bedding? Without fur, as this can be the first sign before any fur is actually plucked. And as for the palpating to feel for kits don't be shocked if you can't feel anything and remain skeptical as it's not something easy to master rabbits hide pregnancy very easily. They can show barely any signs at all but there are a few ways to find out if she is pregnant like pulling gently on her belly fur if it comes out in clumps then she's pregnant (Or experiencing a false pregnancy) but then really only works as a sure signs from a few days to a couple hours before delivery. Also rabbits don't gain weight or have any signs of larger abdomens in pregnancy the only time this would have a chance of occurring is if they're carrying a fairly large litter (8+) 

I would be separating the two immediately. as someone said earlier if she isn't pregnant she could very well be soon. 

Also on the bonding side of things I've had rabbits since I was very young and most of them have been unaltered and does and bucks were in separate herds and rarely was there a scuffle.


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