# Newbie Question:



## Just Jack (Feb 24, 2006)

I'm currently in the process of ordering a pair of young rabbits for my girlfriend & my 3rd anniversary. We've been looking at the possibility of getting a pair of bunnies for my apartment for the better part of a year now and have narrowed our choices down to Holland Lops and Lionheads. Living in El Paso, TX has made it very difficult finding any breeders near our location. That being so I've found that my only option appears to be ordering a pair through Pets Barn.

At first I was told that they could only get Holland Lops and I was happy enough with that. Today, I have found out that they might possibly be able to get me Lionheads as well. This has produced quite a difficult decision to make. Should I get a pair of Holland Lops, a pair of Lionheads, or even one of each. This brings me to my first question, which is whether Lionheads and Holland Lops would get along together.

Also I'd be curious to know people's opinions on which is the better bunny and why.


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## Spring (Feb 24, 2006)

Hey! It doesn't really matter the breed, but coming from the same litter helps having a success in bonding. Mostly all rabbits can live together peacefully if they have the right temperment towards other rabbits, but you could also look into spaying/netuering as this will imrpove your chances a lot!

I recently got a new lionhead last Friday and they seem to be good pets and also holland lops are a very beautiful breed, but some say lionheads need more work if you need to brush them.


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## naturestee (Feb 24, 2006)

*Spring wrote: *


> Hey! It doesn't really matter the breed, but coming from the same litter helps having a success in bonding. Mostly all rabbits can live together peacefully if they have the right temperment towards other rabbits, but you could also look into spaying/netuering as this will imrpove your chances a lot!


 
Sometimes, not always. Word of advice- be very careful when the buns hit puberty. Some will turn very aggressive and attack their former playmates!

Is Pets Barn a pet store? There are some Texas breeders here, they may be able to find someone you can buy from directly. That way you can ask about the rabbits' parents and see the facilities. You may even be able to see the parents. That way you would know if they have health problems like maloclussion or behavioral issues which might be inherited.

As for the breed, it doesn't always matter with personality, although both lionheads and holland lops are reputed to have friendly personalities in general.


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## TinysMom (Feb 24, 2006)

Well, as a fellow Texan and lionhead breeder - I must say that I'm partial to lionheads. My lionheads are very friendly to people - curious and playful - and they get along well.

However, I also have a Holland Lop - and am getting another Holland Lop soon. Hollands to be are outgoing, gregarious, and sometimes....troublemakers - but in the nicest of ways. 

Part of the decision you need to make is going to be what type of personality do you want? From what I've read and experienced - Hollands hate to be locked up and feel it is punishment (per the "Lops as Pets" book I so frequently mention by Sandy Crook). (I don't have the exact title handy). Hollands don't require as much grooming as a lionhead - BUT - a lot of lionheads don't require a lot of grooming (it the teddy style Lionheads that require lots of grooming).

For me - I can put a Holland in my lap and they will want to run and jump and play and come back for a treat. Frequently, if I put a lionhead in my lap - they like to cuddle and will sit on the couch with me if not in my lap.

My biggest concern though is about ordering a pair - sight unseen. I think that the happiest rabbit owners are the ones who have the right personality and chemistry with that particular rabbit and I think it is important to handle that rabbit and see if you 'connect" with it. 

I'll never forget a rabbit we sold at our first show. They liked one rabbit but to be honest - I felt concerned about it. I knew they liked the color - but I didn't feel that the rabbit was a good match for the family. They came back later to look again and I showed them another rabbit - and it was the "right" one for them. They held it and it sort of melted in their arms. They played with it and it wanted to play with them too. They left it with us for a bit - and when they came back - the rabbit heard their voices and rushed to the front of the little cage to come see them - and as they'd looked around - they kept thinking about THAT rabbit...knowing it was the one for them.

I wish we weren't 450 miles apart as I'd invite you to my rabbitry to see my lionheads and to hold my Holland lop and play with them both to experience them first hand. There really is something about spending time with the rabbit to know if it is right for you.

I wish you good luck. I will tell you that when we first got our Holland lop - he played with our lionheads as they were all babies - and they got along just fine...so if you decide to get one of each breed - I would think that would work well. In fact, many lionhead breeders that I know - also breed Holland lops!

Peg


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## Just Jack (Feb 24, 2006)

I do plan on spaying/neutering my rabbits when they're about 4-6 months old. I was actually just calling local vets today to see which ones were able to handle rabbits.

Yes Pets Barn is a pet store and I've done the best I could to find breeders. As Peg said, I too feel that personality is the most important quality and I would really prefer to be able to meet and find which rabbits we'd connect with. Unfortunately pretty much all the breeders I have found (using google and centralpets.com) in Texas are around San Antonio, Dallas, and Houston which are anywhere from 8-12 hours away. I haven't found a single breeder in New Mexico and the next closest would be Arizona. I would even prefer to *ick* order our rabbits from a breeder but the cost of shipping is so high. Unfortunately for us it just isn't possible unless someone knows of a breeder closer to El Paso.

Lionheads being "cuddlers" does make them more appealing as I would want one that would enjoy being held and petted. Though of course at other times I would enjoy having a more playful rabbit. That's unfortunate that Hollands feel punished when they are put away but I'd imagine they would get used to it. I've already have purchased a cage which is 36" x 14" which from what I've read is well above the suggested size for rabbits of those breeds. Hopefully with that amount of room they would have plenty of room to play and not feel punished.


If getting Hollands at an early age and handling (cuddling) them regularly, would that make them more prone to enjoy cuddling as they get older? Also aren't Lionheads quite playful as well?

As it is I'm starting to lean more towards Lionheads. I don't mind the extra care it would take to keep them groomed properly. Certainly wouldn't want them to suffer wool block which I hear they can be somewhat prone to.


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## Spring (Feb 25, 2006)

My lionhead sometimes likes to snuggle down and close her eyes when I pet her, but other times tries to hop off my lap and explore! They can also run very fast! My new baby runs faster then my netherland dwarf! She's also liking jumping and I have an over turned box in her cage as she likes to jump up on it and look around. 

I let her run around and like I said can run very fast and does jumps in the air then goes full speed and goes behind my dresser then darts out so I'm guessing they are pretty active rabbits?


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## peapoo_bunny (Feb 28, 2006)

*Just Jack wrote: *


If getting Hollands at an early age and handling (cuddling) them regularly, would that make them more prone to enjoy cuddling as they get older? Also aren't Lionheads quite playful as well?



i got peapoo when she was around 2months old... she loves being petted and cuddled with..she begs for nose-rubs and nudges your hand to be petted...shes a holland lop... but she also likes playing to..she loves chasing you around the house..im not saying all holland lops are like this though...i think sometimes it just depends on the individual rabbits personalityand how its been raised


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## Just Jack (Feb 28, 2006)

I imagine that pretty much all bunnies are products of their environment. I'm sure whether we had choosen lionheads or holland lops, if we begin playing and cuddling with them regularly at an early age I'm sure they will love doing that for their entire life. We've decided to go ahead and buy a pair of lionheads. A INCREDIBLY generous breeder has offered to meet us halfway so it will not be such an impossible trip for either of us. We really just cannot wait to have a pair of our own bunnies. I wish I had them already!


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## Spring (Feb 28, 2006)

That's awesome! It's going to be so adorable watching them run around together . Just a tip I've just figured out.. if your going to use any type of wood bedding with lionheads I'd choose something else because it gets all in their mane and sometimes tangles! Good luck!


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## Just Jack (Feb 28, 2006)

You mean like Carefresh? I think that's probably what I'm going to go for. I was kind of confused about whether aspen is also harmful to rabbits because I thought I read on website that it was just like cedar and pine.

Should I wait till I get them litter trained before I start putting the bedding in the upper part of the cage itself? This is the cage I bought for them and it has a removeable liner which is where the store employees were telling me I should put the bedding.

Also what kind of bowls do people use for such small breeds of rabbits like lionheads? The ones I've seen that attach to the cage seem like they would be too tall for the little guys to get their heads in.


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## naturestee (Feb 28, 2006)

I think Carefresh might stick too, but I'm not sure. Wood pellets would work well. Most of us do not use bedding all over the cage, just in the litterbox. Since the floor is wire, you'll want to provide something comfortable for them to sit on like straw mats.

I like to use small ceramic cat/dog bowls for food and water. They are heavy enough that they are difficult to move and are easy to eat or drink out of. My little dwarfs have no problem with these.

Just a warning- I've heard that cage rattles when the buns hop. Maybe there is a way to dampen that somehow?


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## Spring (Feb 28, 2006)

Is carefresh the downy type things? You could probably put that in the tray or even aspen. The problem with cedar and pine is that they have a strong smelling aroma that can be toxic to rabbits and as far as I know, aspen doesn't have this. You could also put newspaper with the carefresh to sort of minimize the amount of carefresh you use?

You don't really need anything as far as liter goes on the top wire until you get them litter trained but I wouldn't try liter training at this age (well for my rabbit it's useless) because the baby just pees in different spots and her spots change all the time. Maybe just put a blanket on half of the cage so they have somewhere to rest from the wire? 

Buying "specially made" rabbit bowls where I've looked at them are sort of a rip off. They have this medium sized decorated bowl for like 6 dollars, where you could get a plain white heavy ceramic dish from the looney store for about a dollar. I found these small tiny ones that are the size of my palm and I bopught two from the looney store and they are so adorable! I plan on getting bigger ones once she starts to grow more.

She's grown fast too! It seems like she's doubled in size!


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## Just Jack (Feb 28, 2006)

Yeah I wouldn't be suprised. I'm sure it would just take a little investigating (which I might be able to do before I even get the bunnies) to figure out which pieces are knocking against each other. Then it should bejust a matter of slipping something or even melting something (safe for bunnies of course) in between those metal pieces.


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## Just Jack (Mar 1, 2006)

*Spring wrote: *


> Is carefresh the downy type things? You could probably put that in the tray or even aspen. The problem with cedar and pine is that they have a strong smelling aroma that can be toxic to rabbits and as far as I know, aspen doesn't have this. You could also put newspaper with the carefresh to sort of minimize the amount of carefresh you use?
> 
> You don't really need anything as far as liter goes on the top wire until you get them litter trained but I wouldn't try liter training at this age (well for my rabbit it's useless) because the baby just pees in different spots and her spots change all the time. Maybe just put a blanket on half of the cage so they have somewhere to rest from the wire?
> 
> ...


 
Carefresh and newspaper, aye? That would certaily work out for me since I've started reading the paper a lot more regularly this semester. If I'm keeping up on current events, why shouldn't my bunnies!  That and I can always get free copies of my university's newspaper.

I have an old towel that I'll probably use as their rest area. I imagine when they are yound and pre-litter trained that I'll have to be washing that towel pretty often.

I started looking at basic ceramic bowels they have at PetsMart and those look pretty good. One is 1 3/4" tall and I imagine that would be a good size and they're just $4. They look pretty nice too.


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## Spring (Mar 1, 2006)

I've heard carefresh isn't the cheapest so newspaper would save you some costs!

Those bowls sound good I'm sure they'll be low enough, so I'm sure it'll be easy to get to for them!


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## RebeccaUK (Mar 1, 2006)

Hope you get some lovely bunnies. Can we have pictures please when they arrive??

Just a word of warning - my bunnies love ripping up newspaper and will dig and tear at towels until they're a mess of holes so be prepared if your buns turn out to be 'destroyers', surprisingly some bunnies get tehir kicks from destroying things and others won't tear anything up - think it's personality dependent but worth noting all the same.


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## Just Jack (Mar 1, 2006)

oh, I'm sure we will be taking plenty of pictures the day we get them  it's kind of strange but we are already kind of smitten with them even before we've met them


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## BlueberryBunbun (Mar 1, 2006)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> Well, as a fellow Texan and lionhead breeder - I must say that I'm partial to lionheads. My lionheads are very friendly to people - curious and playful - and they get along well.


 


I agree totally, i have a lionhead and find that they are very affectionate and cuddly. Mine is rather nervous and prefers to snuggle up on your lap rather than be chased about and played with, so you have to be careful when she's around your feetso as not to freak her out! But i'd definately recommend the breed as they are beautiful and very friendly. The grooming part really is not difficult, my lionhead is only single-maned, and so it takes a quick 5 - 10 minutes everyso oftenwith her rabbit brush and she sits still becauseshe loves it. 
As regards to feeding, i put my rabbits food in a heavy, thick bowl that i bought from the pet store. Its too heavy for her to drag around, and thick enough not to get chipped or broken. And she can access it all the time. She also has a small, rectangular wooden box that was originally a flower planter that i use as a manger for her hay.

Congratulations on choosing your pair of lionheads!! I'm sure they're going to very loving and capable owners.


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## Just Jack (Mar 1, 2006)

Thanks Blueberry for the vote of confidence 

Now I submit for board approval, my mini prep shopping spree!

Kaytee Timothy Complete rabbit food pellets
Keytee Timothy Hay
Carefresh pet bedding
Terra Cotta cat bowl
Flat-Bac 16 0z water bottle (I hope this is an appropriate size)
Rollin' The Hay
All Living Things Small Animal Play House which I outfitted with a 
Supet Pet Grassy Mat so they have their comfy sleeping area
And right next to the play house I put a Super Pet Corner Look-Out (I got a white one) so they can even climb on top of the house if they want 
and finally a small Roll 'N' Chew
 just for fun 


I think I had the most trouble picking the water bottle. Didn't know what size I should get for a pair of lionheads. The employee there suggested this size and to change the water everyday. I thought it was once or twice a week.

I can't wait to introduce the bunnies to their new home. I hope they like what I've done with the place


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## Just Jack (Mar 1, 2006)

also what type of fresh veggies should I feed them?


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## peapoo_bunny (Mar 1, 2006)

*Just Jack wrote: *


> This is the cage I bought for them and it has a removeable liner which is where the store employees were telling me I should put the bedding.
> 
> Also what kind of bowls do people use for such small breeds of rabbits like lionheads? The ones I've seen that attach to the cage seem like they would be too tall for the little guys to get their heads in.


 thats one of the cages i have for peapoo...i really like it and its easy to change...also the bottom is easier on her feet because the holes arent to big. i dont put bedding in the cage for peapoo...instead i usually just give her a shoebox filled with hay or something like that...its not as messy with her

is this the kindthat your talking about? i use this bowl that hooks to the side of the cage and its the perfect size for peapoo..shes small, only 3lbs i think


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## peapoo_bunny (Mar 1, 2006)

i also use this bowl because the other one takes too long to unscrew if i need to move her bowl around... got both of them at petsmart

peapoo has a rollin the hay, you can barely see it behind her in this picture....she loves it! it hangs on the side of the cage while shes in her cage, but she really likes rolling it around in her room when shes out...and its not as messy as her old hay feeder

a 16oz water bottle sounds fine.. i originally got a 16 oz water bottle, but i ended up getting a bigger size because the water wasnt coming out good enough on the 16oz.

i give peapoo carrots, banana, and sometimes a tiny bit of grape, but she's almost 6months old...ive read heard that you arent supposed to give them vegetables until theyre 5 or 6 months old, but im not sure if ithats true or not...peapoo has eaten them since she was 3 months old


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## naturestee (Mar 1, 2006)

This is a really good link for basic diet info, with links to veggie and fruit lists:
http://www.rabbit.org/faq/sections/diet.html

You're getting babies, right? Growing rabbits need more protein, calcium, and calories than adults. That means they'll need alfalfa pellets, not timothy pellets. I don't like Petsmart's choices for alfalfa pellets, but if you have a feed store you can go to you'll probably find something better (and often cheaper) there. Look for 15-16% protein and at least 18% fiber. Since lionheads are a small breed that matures young, you can probably switch them to timothy pellets when they're about 6 months old.

Make sure the breeder is giving you some of their pellets. Mix the old pellets with the new and gradually switch the buns over. Baby rabbits have sensitive stomachs.

Speaking of sensitive stomachs, many people don't give veggies until the rabbit is 6 months old. I started feeding veggies when Mocha was 8 weeks. Ask the breeder what she was doing. Either way, start off with tiny amounts of one thing to make sure it doesn't upset their stomachs.

It is best that they get fresh water every day. It'll taste the best that way, and encourage them to drink more. I don't know what size you'll need because I use bowls for water.

What about a litter box? It's best to start littertraining right away. 

When are the furry bundles due to arrive?


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## Spring (Mar 1, 2006)

I wasn't sure if It's very accurate to try to train babies to use the litter box. I don't think they're old enough to be aware of going to the bathroom just in one spot?


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## naturestee (Mar 1, 2006)

*Spring wrote: *


> I wasn't sure if It's very accurate to try to train babies to use the litter box. I don't think they're old enough to be aware of going to the bathroom just in one spot?


 I've heard that some are, although they might loose it when they hit puberty. If it's there from the start, they'll get more used to it and it won't be that wierd new non-toy thing when you put it in later. And they'll know what it's for.


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## Spring (Mar 1, 2006)

Oooh ok that makes sense. I mgiht look into getting a litter box then and see


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## Just Jack (Mar 1, 2006)

*peapoo_bunny wrote: *


> *Just Jack wrote: *
> 
> 
> > This is the cage I bought for them and it has a removeable liner which is where the store employees were telling me I should put the bedding.
> ...


 
that's how big a 3lb holland lop is?:shock: peapoo makes that cage look so small which concerns me now cause of everything I put in there. now I'm wondering if there is going to be enough room for my bunnies! I hope they aren't suppose to be that big as centrapets.com classes lionheads as "Much Smaller than Average" while holland lops are "Smaller than Average." But still hollands are suppose to be about 3-4lbs while lionheads are 3.5 lbs... Do they just weigh the same and have a good difference in body mass?


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## Spring (Mar 1, 2006)

Hollands are around four pounds, not sure how much lionheads weigh, but I washolding the mom of my baby and she was probably around four pounds. How big is the cage again? Out of those, is it the larger one?


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## TinysMom (Mar 1, 2006)

Your rabbits are going to be SOOOO spoiled. Two things I'm going to point out....

a. What size is the cage? I think the rabbits are going to LOVE all of the stuff you have and I can tell you that my little ones love to get on top of stuff - so your rabbits will probably love to get on top of the house thingy you bought.

b. Make sure to change the water daily. The water bottle is a great size - but your rabbits will really appreciate FRESH water every day. Think about how you'd feel at drinking stale water.....

Now - are both rabbits going to be sharing the cage? In that case - you might need to get two females because a male and female will mate in lionheads at very young ages...



Peg


P.S. Sorry- DUH - I just saw the link to the cage and read the size of it. I would think that they would probably be ok in that....and I like to put a tile or two down in mine so they have a place to sleep on which isn't on the wire. Some like the tile - some don't...


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## Spring (Mar 1, 2006)

This is the cage I got for my baby lionhead jsut a tad bit bigger and I could easily fit her mom and the other lionheadin there my little girl, her cardbaord box and a few food and water bowls!

http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441808080&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302026391&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023695&bmUID=1141263206615&itemNo=16&Nao=12&In=Small+Pet&N=2026391&Ne=2

It should be alright!


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## peapoo_bunny (Mar 1, 2006)

*Just Jack wrote: *


> *peapoo_bunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *Just Jack wrote: *
> ...


yeah shes 3 lbs, i weighed her yesterday...i like that cage but it is kind of small...it was fine for her when she was little, but now its smaller than i would like it to be...im going to have to get a bigger one ... but for now, i just did this...


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## Just Jack (Mar 1, 2006)

*naturestee wrote: *


> This is a really good link for basic diet info, with links to veggie and fruit lists:
> http://www.rabbit.org/faq/sections/diet.html
> 
> You're getting babies, right? Growing rabbits need more protein, calcium, and calories than adults. That means they'll need alfalfa pellets, not timothy pellets. I don't like Petsmart's choices for alfalfa pellets, but if you have a feed store you can go to you'll probably find something better (and often cheaper) there. Look for 15-16% protein and at least 18% fiber. Since lionheads are a small breed that matures young, you can probably switch them to timothy pellets when they're about 6 months old.
> ...


 
Ok I'll see about returning the pellets in exchange for alfalfa ones. I was planning on asking them what they were feeding them that cause I was wanting to make the transition as easy as possible. If I could I would just continue to feed them whatever they normally get anyways.

I was under the same assumption about waiting till a particular age to litter train but what you said makes a lot of sense. I'll see about getting a litter box too.

We're suppose to meet the breeders March 12th, just a 11 days away!


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## peapoo_bunny (Mar 1, 2006)

another picture of the cage

if 2 rabbits would be in the cage i would definately get a bigger one


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## TinysMom (Mar 1, 2006)

*Just Jack wrote: *


> We're suppose to meet the breeders March 12th, just a 11 days away!


 
(ALL PHOTOS ARE CLICKABLE FOR CLOSER LOOK)


I'm going to speak up here even though I wasn't going to originally share....

I am the breeder - and after talking to Just Jack - Art & I decided that we wanted to "gift" him with two lionheads for this. It was such an awesome idea to get a gift like this for his girlfriend....and he had done his own research and thought about it. One of the reasons for our rabbitry was to make lionheads "affordable" to the general public because so often they go for high prices that folks can't afford them. But I refuse to make money off this forum - hence we offered them a gift.

It also helps that our kids go to college halfway between here and El Paso. So we can meet there on the 12th when the kids go back to school after spring break.

There - with that said - here are some females for y'all to look at and think about. I will give some more photos later - most likely tomorrow and not tonight. However, these were the ones that were the easiest to catch and willing to have their photo taken! Since you are going to have one cage for them - I would suggest two does and these little ones all pretty much get along and have grown up together...


Sable point doe - she tends to be very shy.









Harlequin doe - sorry but the lighter colored ones are already spoken for and going to California ...but here is a darker one..









Black doe - stupid idea to take her photo against brown...sorry about that..









Orange doe - notice the ear - from a littermate....














Another black doe









Another orange doe 














Blue doe - one of my favorites! Sort of shy - but very used to humans...









Well - this will at least start you dreaming - I'll take more photos later and post them here for you...if you see any that stand out - start making a list. As I said, I'll bring a bunch of them for y'all to interact with...I hope you don't mind me posting the photos here - but I thought the forum members might enjoy looking at the choices too!

Peg


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## naturestee (Mar 1, 2006)

Yay! I wondered if it was you, Peg! I figured either you or you hooked him up with someone you know. I'm jealous of you, Jack. She's got some beauties, and they're indoor rabbits so you know they're used to people.


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## TinysMom (Mar 1, 2006)

*Just Jack wrote: *


> Ok I'll see about returning the pellets in exchange for alfalfa ones. I was planning on asking them what they were feeding them that cause I was wanting to make the transition as easy as possible. If I could I would just continue to feed them whatever they normally get anyways.


 I'm going to be bringing a 10 pound bag of their food plus a ziplock baggy (big one) filled with the supplements I use (oatmeal, calf mana, black sunflower seeds, etc). 

I have corner litterboxes in some cages as they take up less room - I found mine on Ebay....

Peg


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## Just Jack (Mar 2, 2006)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> Your rabbits are going to be SOOOO spoiled. Two things I'm going to point out....
> 
> a. What size is the cage? I think the rabbits are going to LOVE all of the stuff you have and I can tell you that my little ones love to get on top of stuff - so your rabbits will probably love to get on top of the house thingy you bought.
> 
> ...


 
I'm still concerned about the size of the cage considering all these things that I've put in there. Mainly the play house which takes up a considerable amount of space (14" x 9" x 9") in the cage. How big in size do they get (L x W)? They always look so very small in the pictures but now I wonder.

I'll be sure to change the water daily. Though personally I'll have a bottle of water and not finish it for several days 


And yes I was planning for the rabbits to share the cage. How old are those bunnies that you posted?


And since the bunny is out of the bag now  I can't tell everyone how bewildered and excited I was over Peg's incredibly generous offer. Everyday me and my girlfriend are getting more and more excited about this because we've been dreaming about it for so long. Now it's finally going to happen.:bunnydance:


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## Spring (Mar 2, 2006)

Oh wow! Peg, you are one of the few good breeders I've read about so far . Pebbles looks like the little black one, just a tad bit lighter because the litter was black and grey, and she was more of the lighter grey kind . It's so exciting getting ready for a new rabbit  Hope the days seems to pass by quick!


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## Just Jack (Mar 2, 2006)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> There - with that said - here are some females for y'all to look at and think about. I will give some more photos later - most likely tomorrow and not tonight. However, these were the ones that were the easiest to catch and willing to have their photo taken! Since you are going to have one cage for them - I would suggest two does and these little ones all pretty much get along and have grown up together...
> 
> 
> Orange doe - notice the ear - from a littermate....
> ...


 
the lighter colored harlequins that you spoke of which are spoken for, are they from the kit you first e-mailed me? I too was more attracted to the lighter ones so I'm not suprise they got snagged up quickly 

The ones that I kept in the quote here are our favorite ones from this set. I didn't think I was partial to blue haired rabbits but you made me a believer! I'm also fond of the black ones though my gf doesn't like them as much.

I'm in the process of e-mailing you about some of the others you've shown me and that are on your website.

It is going to be a tremndously slow process narrowing them down, I just know it!


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## Spring (Mar 2, 2006)

I've asked before, but how do you post pictures? I have a kodak easy share digital camera and the kodak easy share program, I'm jsut not sure how to! I took some adorable pictures of her with this pink doll bow on. It looks adorable with her dark coloured fur .


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## Just Jack (Mar 3, 2006)

to attach a single image to a post you simply click the "Browse..." button, find the pic you wish to post, select it, and press open.

for adding multiple images to a post as Peg did you first need some website to host the images. I use photobucket.com. It's relatively easy to set up an account there and it's (more importantly) free. After uploading your images to a website you just need to link them here using the [img ][/img ] tags minus the space between the g & ]. Photobucket makes it extra simple as after your image has been loaded they provide copy & paste links already complete with image tags.

now my turn to ask a question...

after going over the litterbox training which basicly suggests placing the litterbox where ever the bunny chooses to designate as their potty area, I noticed that it really doesn't talk about any multiple bunnies issues. Do bunnies that live together in the same cage tend to designate the same area for their bathroom or how else do you convince them to go in the same spot? Anything else other than food/water placement?


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## Just Jack (Mar 3, 2006)

also what is a good size litter box? I purchased one that is a corner litter box that is approx 15" in length. Is this too large for a pair of lionheads? My new NIC cage measures approx 4' x 2.5' x 2.5' and I wouldn't want to take up too much space with the litter box.


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## Spring (Mar 4, 2006)

I tried to post the pictures both ways, teh first way told me my images exceeded the size they should be (how doi you re-size?) and the second way worked, just the photos were oversized on the preview post and oyu had to scroll just to see one picture.

To answer your question, is it 15" from the point to the side? Or from side to side? They will grow, and the bigger the better and I dont' think it will take up too much of the cage space. Here's a website about litter pan size.

http://www.rabbit.org/chapters/san-diego/behavior/litterbox_steup.html

Some peoples litter boxes take up like half the size of the cage, so you should be fine.


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## Just Jack (Mar 4, 2006)

basically you are going to need to resize your pictures. you can either use a program like photoshop to change the image size or with photobucket you can hit the "Edit" button above each picture. From there you have three options. 

The first is to rename your picture to whatever you want and even add a description. If you change the name of the picture it will affect any links you have posted before you changed it. 

Second is the resizing option. Depending how big your picture is you probably either want to shrink it to 75 or 50 percent of it's original size. After selecting which size you want just hit the resize button. 

The final option is to rotate the image. This is certainly helpful when you have used your camera to take a portrait style picture instead of landscape.


The litter box is 15" in length on each leg, not the hypotenuse. I think it's probably a good size too since after I make the cage into a two-story play area that's certainly not much of the area.


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## RO STAFF (Mar 4, 2006)

*Spring wrote: *


> I've asked before, but how do you post pictures? I have a kodak easy share digital camera and the kodak easy share program, I'm jsut not sure how to! I took some adorable pictures of her with this pink doll bow on. It looks adorable with her dark coloured fur .


 The Kodak Easy Share software apparently doesn't allow the photos to be shared on forums, etc., so you'll have to get the photosby browsingyour 'My Pictures' directory on the your computer, or wherever else the originals are stored, andnot by usingthe Easy Share program. (Thus the Easy Share directories and albums you've set up are useless for this purpose). 

Here'sthe instructions fromthe Forum Information section.

http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=11950&forum_id=14

Good luck!


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## TinysMom (Mar 4, 2006)

*Just Jack wrote: *


> also what is a good size litter box? I purchased one that is a corner litter box that is approx 15" in length. Is this too large for a pair of lionheads? My new NIC cage measures approx 4' x 2.5' x 2.5' and I wouldn't want to take up too much space with the litter box.


 I know you mentioned in your email to me about making a 2nd level. Let me tell you right now - those little brats (whoever you get) are going to not only LOVE it - but they will be spoiled rotten. They also will probably hang out on the 2nd level A LOT! 

I'm going to try and get photos of the sable point later this weekend to send you - if you want - you can post the photos here of the various ones I've sent you (harlequin, etc) if you'd like to show folks...I've just been too lazy to resize them. 

I do think that the sable point doe is going to be a smaller doe - she was born December 22nd to Ainsley (she's on my webpage for the sable point does) and she seems to be staying a bit smaller than the others. Then again...she could go through a growth spurt.

You may have one challenge with these does that I've been hesitant to share. They've been free-roaming for a week or so and they like to jump the barrier to get into the living room....I've even caught a couple jumping up to a chair and then on the table to get to the newspaper. I'm sure they'll do fine in the cage you've made - just be aware that thse little ones can be stinkers and have been spoiled rotten! (I was out of cage space and needed to give more cages to the bucks). 

Peg


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## TinysMom (Mar 4, 2006)

I thought I'd share a bit more here about the lionheads you're considering - that way others can be in on the fun. I hope you don't mind.

The three lionheads in particular that we've talked about - the orange, the harlequin and the sable point - are all close to the same age. The orange was born on 12/26, the sable point on 12/22 and the harlequin was 12/28. The orange and the harlequin tend to stay together in the bunny room a lot - although the orange has been coming out to the living room lately. I should say both of the oranges....as they tend to hang around the harlequin a lot and in the cage. However, the fuzzier orange has started venturing out into the living room this week. The sable point doe has had more confidence and has been coming out into this room for at least 10 days or two weeks. She easily jumps the foot high section of the gate (when the upper part is open) and she likes to look around for treasure - like hay on the floor, etc. Of the four girls (2 orange, 1 harlequin and 1 sable point) - she is the most outgoing and I imagine she will be the most dominant rabbit...but I haven't seen her chase or attack others like some other young does have done. In fact, right now a black doe is grooming her ands he wants to be left alone...but she's just sort of moving her head away.

The two orange does are the next most confident and friendliest....and the harlequin is the most shy. However, the harlequin doe is the easiest one to catch and pick up and she has given tooth purrs when she's petted. 

Since she has started coming out into the dining room/living room area - the orange one has become sort of "adventurous". She likes to get into the drop pan below one of the cages to eat any food that has dropped food - and to "hide". She'll sometimes sneak out and race behind another rabbit when they didn't know she was there. The sable point also likes to get into the drop pan.....but she doesn't really play as much with the other rabbits like that. She prefers to try and jump into the hay bag.

This reminds me - I bought some specialty hays from Barbi Brown's website and hope to do some ziplock baggies of them to give you with the rabbits...please try to remind me when we meet....I will also have a 10 pound bag of their food, and the supplements I like to use.

I guess that's it for now....I hope my descriptions helpin some way.

Peg


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## Just Jack (Mar 4, 2006)

A little update on the cage... today I bought the flooring for the bottom level. I went to Office Depot and purchased a Rubbermaid clear vinyl floor mat (the kind that are commonly used under computer/office chairs). To me it seems like it will be a nice, safe, and easy to clean (my parents have used it for years around their bird cages) flooring. It has a little bit of texture to it so I don't think it will be slippery.


I'm so glad all of your bunnies are already so used to people. I've been reading a lot of the threads and links in the Bunny 101 forum (soon I'll be ready for my Masters) and I imagine it's going to be quite a bit easier to form a kinship with your bunnies. I really do look forward to spoiling them and above all else learning to communicate with them (a la The Language of Lagomorphs website). 

I'll show Elsa your post in the morning though I'm sure she will, like myself, find all of these little characters adorable in their indivdual personalities.

You can always send me any pictures that aren't resized yet and I'll have no problem resizing them for you and posting them here.

I'm also curious about what can you tell me about your blue doe. She seems very curious and petite.


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## TinysMom (Mar 4, 2006)

*Just Jack wrote: *


> I'm also curious about what can you tell me about your blue doe. She seems very curious and petite.


 I was watching the little blue doe today because I had planned to bring her to the college anyway for you to see her. She is very interesting. She was born 12/26 - I made a mistake - the oranges were born 12/19. I just looked at my date book again.

She is very shy and quiet. She likes to come out into the dining room/living room area most of the time - but she just sits off to the side and watches everyone else. I have caught her grooming other rabbits that come up to her - especially a younger chestnut one just a few minutes ago.

There is a certain something about this doe. I can't put it into words - but every once in a while you see it in one of the rabbits and they just stick out to you. If blue was a "showable" color - I'd be normally selling her for $100 or more because she has awesome type and mane....adn if you don't take her - she'll stay here and be a breeder rabbit most likely. 

She has a personality that is sort of laid back and calm...yet the other rabbits will go to her for grooming and to be beside her. She doesn't seek them out - but she doesn't push them away. She likes to play in her own way - but she's a bit of a loner. That isn't it exactly - its like she doesn't NEED other rabbits - whereby the oranges and harlequin do tend to need others.

Her mama has a very gentle nature and I think that this doe got that from her. 

While I was typing to you earlier, I heard paper shredding and didn't really think about it. MISTAKE! The sable point doe got up on the fireplace area and found a notebook and started shredding - she got about 15 pages before I caught on to what she was doing. If you take her - HIDE your textbooks....as she really likes to shred paper. So does the really fuzzy orange too.

By the way - I know you wanted two lionheads and thats fine. But if you find yourself too torn between them - you could have more in the cage you've made. All of these girls can live together - they do so now. I have four does living in my bedroom - plus others that wander in...no...make that 6 does I think...and they get along just fine. So don't feel like I'm going to be limiting you to just two.

Also, by the time they're full grown - they will only need about 1/2 cup of food per day (per lionhead). So their food won't be all that expensive. 

My only real concern is...well...two things. They haven't hit puberty yet (but I have yet to really have a problem with a lionhead doe hitting puberty...they mostly get along here)...and there is a chestnut doe that hangs out with these particular does. Since I doubt you'll be taking them all - she'll be ok....but she and the blue doe have hung out together most of today and I had not realized that before - that they were close. What is funny is she likes to sit beside the blue doe and get groomed by her - but she likes to run and play with the sable poitn doe and an orange doe.

Well - I better head to bed - I was up to watch "Chicago Hope" again since I'd missed part of it this morning. I guess it boils down to this from what I'm observing:

a. Sable point doe, fuzzy orange doe, and blue doe like to hang out in the living room/dining rom - these three are used to each other. (They also know the other does - but they tend to stay in the family area of the house). The chestnut doe hangs out with them. The sable point doe is the "troublemaker" per se....the orange doe is an investigator and the blue doe is the watcher.

b. The other orange doe and the harlequin doe like to hang out together mainly in the rabbitry. They don't come out into the family areas as much. However, they are easier for me to catch and they come to me at supper time and when I'm putting out water. They know the other rabbits and they all interact...but these two tend to be more rabbit-oriented vs. people-oriented or exploratory. This could change as they get older. 

c. The sable point doe is almost like having a 2 year old around. Be prepared to learn to put textbooks and notebooks up...but also be prepared for silly antics. The others are less troublesome....but not quite as much "fun" or "challenging".

I hope I've helped in some way!

Peg

P.S. If you know you're leaning towards certain ones - let me know and I'll cage them together for a couple of hours in a 24" x 24" cage to see how they react to each other and if there is any fighting....


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## TinysMom (Mar 4, 2006)

I forgot to tell you - I'm going to be giving you a small container of Oxbow Critical Care - and the things I recommend you have on hand after you get the rabbits are:

baby food (banana or rice cereal - in case you need to give medicine or mix w/ Critical Care)

Pedialyte - I use fruit flavored but if they go into stasis it is better to have unflavored. I buy the Walmart brand...you probably don't need to keep this on hand as I don't know how long it lasts...but I like to have it

Simethicone (its a baby type version of Pepto Bismol or something like that) - for stasis

I'm also going to be giving you a package of electrolyte stuff called "bounce back" to have on hand and a small container of probiotic powder. I'm also hoping to type up for you a list of what treats I would give and when I would start them on the treats if you plan to give them (ex: I wouldn't give greens till June 1st for these gals). You will want to get Cheerios (although they haven't had them yet) and if you have fruit loops and promise to only give one or two every couple of days...that would be ok. 

And....you'll have my phone number so you can call me ANYTIME if you get concerned or have questions you can't find answered here. 

I'm really excited that you're getting some of my girls as I feel they'll get a good home...

Peg


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## Just Jack (Mar 4, 2006)

That is so much stuff! Once again you have me floored 

You know I came to this message board to get help in figuring a few things out but what I've gotten is truly a life changing experience. There isn't a single instance in my entire life that I can recall anyone ever being so freely generous. It's just all so incredibly stunning and I can't tell you how greatful we both are for all that you are doing for us.

Again all of these guys (or gals rather) sound like they have really captivating personalities. I know it will be quite difficult to choose and it would also be sad to break up already bonded groups. I can imagine that would be quite depressing for them. Though the idea of more than two sounds both exciting and scary at the same time. Maybe it's something that we will just feel whether it would be right or wrong when the time comes.

When you get the chance I'd like to see pics of the chestnut that you are talking about as well cause I don't think I've seen her yet.

The harlequin & orange pair seem a tad less appealing as you said they are more interested in being with other rabbits rather than being with people. But still I know these things can change and they may make very loving affectionate pets.

I think I too shall go to bed now to think and dream about all of this.

Thank you again so much for all that you have already done for us!


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## TinysMom (Mar 4, 2006)

I'm glad you are excited about the lionheads. I'm excited because I know that whoever you pick - they will have a good home.

I also don't want you to feel like you have to take more than two...ok? However - if you and your girlfriend find yourself really enjoying more than two when we meet - you can take however many you want. I have found that my girls really get along well and since these have practically been raised as littermates since they were weaned (and before they were weaned they would play together) - they'll be fine.

They really aren't "bonded" at this point in time....they just sort of hang out with certain ones vs. other ones. I didn't mention my other does that they hang out with (older does) because I'm keeping the older does. I was just shocked to notice how much the blue doe and the chestnut doe hung out together - but they have somewhat of the same personality I think.

I think that the two does that stay in the rabbitry at this point - haven't "matured" as much as the other ones. They don't have as much curiousity - they're just happy to be in there where everyone else is. The ones who have jumped the gate are the "brats" as I call them. They are my "two year olds" that you have to watch out for (if they were children). I think it is because I try to raise them to be as smart and inquisitive as they can be.

I want to warn you - my family all thinks they are spoiled - and they are. These litters are spoiled worse than any other because I literally ran out of cage space due to having so many bucks....so my does have really had a lot of free run and if I can't catch them to lock them in the rabbitry at night (or if they hide from me...which does happen)....then they run around in the house at night. My kids are like, "We weren't that spoiled" and I must admit that I think Art is relieved that we got more cages today (my order came in). 

Also - because these rabbits have become sort of independent in their free-roam experience - they will not hesitate to flick you off or thump you off. You will be getting lovable - but totally spoiled little brats with these gals. They think that they should have free run of whereever they want to be. 

Aww...as I type this - the sable point has gone up to the fuzzy orange and is grooming her....and now the fuzzy orange is grooming the sable point. They cuddled together a mintue ago too - and there goes the fuzzy orange - off to jump the gate back into the bunny room....and the sable point is like "Where is my friend?"....

Well - I really must make myself go to bed - but I will try to get you photos after I wake up. 

Peg

P.S. I think you've been on my website and seen the story about Spunky - how he came from a chestnut that shocked me by throwing a harlequin. Well....I mated her to a harlequin - hoping for all harlequins...only to get all chestnuts! That is where the chestnut came from. I was so upset because this chestnut is so awesome in type and mane - but I don't want to breed for chestnuts! She is such a cutie. Anyway - I'll share photos when I wake up....I'll get the kids to help me catch the rabbits....


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## TinysMom (Mar 4, 2006)

I'm about to attempt to catch the girls for photos (they hate photos)....but I thought I'd take a moment to tell you about their moms and dads....and what their personalities are like. (Feel free to skip this message if you want).

The orange girls are from Stella....she looks awesome even now as an adult. I was told she was orange - a judge at a rabbit show said she's a badly marked tort. To me, she looks more orange and she throws orange. She is a SWEETHEART. She has a very gentle personality....wouldn't hurt another rabbit - and loves pets when she gets fed. When I put my does out to play - I can count on her behaving. She was given to me by someone getting out of rabbits and I just love her to pieces. She is one that I may keep when I'm done breeding her. She has an awesome mane and while she is larger than the typical lionhead should be - that is part of what makes her a good doe. Unfortunately, their dad got rehomed so I don't know a lot about his personality....and I don't really remember enough to talk about him as he was a younger buck. I do remember he liked pets.

The harlequin is from "Meathead" as she was called on this forum...and she later got renamed "Shopgirl". Meathead is....well...she is a bit more aggressive when she has playtime. Because of this - she normally gets her own exercise pen. She is allowed to play on the rabbitry floor with the other does *IF*I am around. She is a daughter from Miss Bea and she has Miss Bea's temperament. The doe you're considering is much more laid back and gentle than her mom ever was.....so I think she must have her dad's temperament....he is Akil on my webpage. He's very gentle and yet loves to play. 

The chestnut is from Matilda - my chestnut doe that threw harlequins. Matilda is one of the ugliest lionheads I've ever seen...she has a narrow face - long body - is single mane. Yet - she throws some of the prettiest babies I've seen. Matilda is an awesome doe in the fact that she will nurse her litter (usually 7 or 8 babies - unusual for a lionhead) - and then - if I need to have her nurse another litter a while later - she'll turn around and nurse them. When we had our feed problem last fall - she nursed 24 babies in one day - and she did that for two days because I had does that had problems with their milk coming in. Matilda has a gentle personality - BUT - she likes her freedom. Her cage door is usually left open during the day so she can play on the rabbitry floor - when she feels threatened by another doe or if she gets tired - she'll just jump up into her cage (on the 2nd level). When she hears the food coming - she jumps up in her cage and waits for me. The chestnut's dad is Akil also...

The blue doe is from Delta....and her dad is Harry. In fact, I remembered that I can't breed her because Harry is her dad - he threw bad teeth in one litter.... Delta is a very quiet and laid back doe. She will accept pets - but when given playtime - she will frequently find one place and stay in it. She doesn't like confrontation and will run away from it if another doe seems to threaten her. The only time she is aggressive is if she wants to mate and then she wants to lay by the cage of the buck she has picked (while the does have playtime). Harry - is my favorite buck and I sure wish I could use him for breeding still - but we realized after this mating (it was his last) that he threw bad teeth in a litter. Harry is my cuddler - I love to hold him. He is soooo gentle - and when his cage is on the floor - the does will fight over who gets to lay next to his cage during playtime. Harry is being neutered this year and will share a cage with Hyacinth as his bond partner since they already love to be next to each other. He is probably my most gentle buck and he throws babies that not only look great -but have great personalities - not too much of fighters..

Finally - the sable point. Her mom is Ainsley (she's on my website) and her grandfather is Harry. This means Ainsley won't be having any more litters either due to the risk of bad teeth. Ainsley is one of my most interesting mamas. She doesn't like to be in between other does when the cages are being changed around....she prefers to be on top with one other doe or between a doe and a buck. She hates feeling closed in I think.... She is somewhat aggressive - no - make that VERY aggressive during playtime....and she frequently has to have playtime alone. However, I think that is because she doesn't like to feel overwhelmed with lots of does - I have noticed that if she is out with only one or two does - who don't try to dominate her - she does just fine! I think this doe gets her curiousity and playfulness from her mom - but I think she's getting a somewhat gentle nature from her dad (after watching her with others). Her dad is "Buck Jones" - a rabbit I named after a former forum member who passed away last year. He is a lilac buck (rare in lionheads) AND he has astrex type fur....not real common (or desired) in lionheads. Still yet, I needed his genes for my chocolate breeding program. He is a sweetheart....and he loves to sit in his cage right beside his partner Cocoa (as close to her as he can). She is in a cage beside him. I wish I could describe him better - but he is just a little sweetie. He's shy and nervous but he is so gentle and so "sweet"... 

Well - that describes some of the family history - now to get off my duff here and go get some pictures for you - right?

Peg


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## Just Jack (Mar 4, 2006)

I really do hope to give them as good of a home as I possibly can 

Like I said before, I'm sure that we'll do whatever feels right and would be best for them when choosing how many we'd like to give a home to. From my estimations I'll have approx (with a 2nd floor) 20 square feet of cage space, that's certainly a lot more space then the old cage I had which was about 3.5 sq ft. When we get everything situated I'll take a few photos of the cage so you can see what we've done.

After thinking about it there doesn't seem like there would be really any signigicant complications caused by having more than two bunnies. As long as they are all compatible in which they could live in the same cage comfortable. They can all have their play time together, there would be more food to shell out, and more vet visits (for spaying & checkups) . But to me that really doesn't seem like much. Of course I may be really off here. What do you think? 

I certainly don't see any problem with getting spoiled little girls since daddy plans on spoiling them anyways. lol 

It's nice knowing where these lil guys come from (I read everything!). I wouldn't have even known their birthdays if I had gotten them from a pet store! I think it already helps us feel a connection to each of them with all that you've been telling us and maybe that will help us bond even more with the ones we choose.

As you were saying before about putting a few we select right now into a cage for awhile to see how they do together in close quarters. If you have the time I would ask if you could see about having pairs from that fun loving group of 4 (chestnut, sable, blue, & orange) put in there to see how they do together. I'd say just put all 4 of them in there but that cage would be too small for all 4 to fit in comfortably.

I can't wait to see pictures when you get them ready. You can always just e-mail the full size ones to me and I'll resize and post them if it will save you time.


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## Spring (Mar 4, 2006)

Going from two to four might be big, but maybe consider three? I've heard about trios living fine together. As far as cost goes (for food and bedding and everything) you shouldn't have a problem because if you go buy hay from a local feed store or horse stable it shouldn't cost you more then 7-15% (Canadian) for good quality hay. Buying from petstores is probably the most ridiculous thing if you have acess to a hay somewhere else, because your paying probably anywehere from 3-5x more, and most of it's stale and bad quality.

For vets visit the only major ticket item would be the spaying and neutering. Rabbits are generally extremely healthy if they have a good diet. Check ups in my area are only around $20-25 and that's not too bad. The only thing you might consider is the time. Out time won't be a problem, but individual human-bunny timemight be a problem depending on your schedule, so what ever is best for you, you know best!


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## Just Jack (Mar 5, 2006)

Like I've been saying I wouldn't go for even 3, let alone 4, unless it really feels like it would be the right thing to do. Though I'm curious why do you think 4 would be that more difficult than 3.

I've been trying to find a nearby feed store but haven't had much luck. I might have to check out online feed stores to fill our needs.

Spaying will be something we're gonna have to pay for as I believe the prices I found out for them were somewhere between $60-75 per rabbit.

I think we would have plenty of time for one on one with the bunnies. When we're not on campus we spend pretty much all of our afternoons and evenings at my apartment. I have nol doubt that they will be apart of our daily lives.


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## TinysMom (Mar 5, 2006)

*Just Jack wrote: *


> I've been trying to find a nearby feed store but haven't had much luck. I might have to check out online feed stores to fill our needs.


 Just because I buy from a feedstore - doesn't mean you have to. Just stay away from the "P" brand....there seems to be something about the mill that supplies to Texas that breeders say it has problems - and as I've shared before - I've lost rabbits with it. When we meet, I'll try to remember to bring a tag from a feed bag with you and show you what you want to look for (if it says "by products" of anything in the first one-three items -I'd pass on it...'cause you "by products" can change from season to season). Plus you'll have a 10 pound bag which will do you for a bit if you mix it with whatever you buy for your rabbits...

I'm assuming you got the pictures I sent - there were 19 of them or so.....let me know if you'd like more specific pictures. We told the bunnies that we were taking photos for the people who might be their future mommy and daddy....I think we scared them as they sort of just sat there for a few photos...

Peg


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## Just Jack (Mar 5, 2006)

I just started looking at the pictures and all four of them are so beautiful and cute. I'm gonna take a few minutes to see which ones I'm going to post.

I doubt the hay or pellets would ever be enough to break the bank. I'll do some research to see if it would be worth it to purchase the food from somewhere else besides Petsmart.


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## Just Jack (Mar 5, 2006)

ok I've picked out a few of my favorite pictures of these lil guys

they all look so happy together. the orange and sable point look really cute cuddling in this first pic





and here they look like one big happy family:bunnydance:





I'll have to take a few pictures of their mini-mansion so they won't be so scarred 

I'd like to see a few pics of just the chestnut since I haven't seen her before this and in there she is always squeezed in with the rest.

also thought I would add a couple of pics of the harlequin too cause she is also so very adorable


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## Just Jack (Mar 5, 2006)

oh yeah, we've come up with a couple of possible names for the blue doe based on her color and personality. Since she's laid back, cool, and blue I was thinking of naming her after a blues or jazz musician. First there is Ella as in Ella Fitzgerald "The First Lady of Song" or Rainey as in Gertrude "Ma" Rainey "The Mother of the Blues."

I think Ella is the nicer sounding name (go figure since it's close to Elsa) though Ella Fitzgerald wasn't a blues singer exactly. Though I know that's just me getting too picky.


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## Spring (Mar 5, 2006)

Oh man! They are drop dead cute!:brownbunny

I'm not sure exactly why I said 3 instead of 4 onder:

That must be a tough decission! they are all so adorable! I really like the sable one, looks abit like a simease cat


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## TinysMom (Mar 5, 2006)

*Just Jack wrote: *


>


 

Here is what is ACTUALLY happening in the photo:

Picture 1: 

Blue doe: How do I get out of here? My alliance mate isn't here and I don't know what to do...

Sable Point doe: (whispering) - Now remember - we're voting off the blue doe. Do you remember how to spell blue?

Orange doe: Well DUH. Of course I do...and you don't have to whisper..she knows she's going...

Picture 2: 

Sable Point doe: What do you say we vote off the orange doe and you & I make an alliance? We can still win this thing...we're in the final four...

Blue doe: Right....

Orange doe: (thinking silently..."I wonder if I should vote for the sable point doe since she is so bossy...")

Chestnut doe: How did I make it to final four? What is final four? 



(Ok...can you tell I'm a Survivor fan?)

~~~

On a different note - the blue doe is maturing a bit - today I caught her binkying around the living room all by herself. I don't know if it is because she knows she might be adopted or what....

The sable point doe went into the fireplace (behind the tv in the fireplace) and flicked us off when we tried to get her out.....

The orange doe is hanging out in the rabbitry this morning - as is the chestnut doe. 

I'll try for more photos today....

Peg


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## TinysMom (Mar 5, 2006)

More photos for you:


(How our rabbits spend a lazy Sunday afternoon - hanging out in the top level of their cage for does)










Are you sure I might have a home? I'm not sure how I feel about this....





I don't know which is my best side...




They have to see my face?




(Chestnut doe in these photos).... I know you caught me napping on the Woody Pet bag...but really - I'm NOT the one who chewed the holes in it...




Are you sure this won't hurt?




My best side?




How about my face? Will that work ok?




Peg


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## Just Jack (Mar 5, 2006)

wow that is a lot of bunnies in one cage!:shock: They all look very comfortable around each other which is certainly really good  

I can't wait to see bunnies binky in person. Elsa will just die from the cuteness I'm sure. 

Who is that lovely chocolate or chestnut doe? It's not the same one in all 7 pictures cause she would look very different in the first 3. I like the mane on her. Is she a sm or dm?


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## TinysMom (Mar 5, 2006)

If you're talking about the pictures I just posted - the first ones were of the blue doe....she is a double mane. I've got to tell you - I can't explain it but there is a certain "something" about her - a sparkle in her eye or something - but she is "special". The more I watch her mature - the happier I am of her. I'm about to take photos of her mom for my website...I'm just hoping my batteries hold on. (Mona Kea finally cooperated for photos so I took several of her - I can hardly wait to get her on the site since she is my tort herd matriarch).

Peg


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## Just Jack (Mar 5, 2006)

Awww that's the blue one? She looks so brown in that lighting. And she does have something special about her. I think she is our absolute favorite and I really can't wait to meet them all. We're counting down the days till we get to meet the bunnies:bunnydance:


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## TinysMom (Mar 5, 2006)

Within the hour - I should have their mamas on my webpage - I'll let you know when they're up!

Peg


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## Spring (Mar 5, 2006)

ROFL! I love when people put what it looks like the rabbits are saying! It's so cute!


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## TinysMom (Mar 5, 2006)

The blue doe's mama is on this webpage:

http://www.elreylionheads.com/OtherAOV.htm

The orange doe's mama is on this webpage:

http://www.elreylionheads.com/Torts.htm

I still have other mamas to do .... 

Peg


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## TinysMom (Mar 5, 2006)

Consider yourself forewarned...





You mean I WASN'T supposed to open the bag of Woody Pet?






But I'm claiming it as mine....all mine!


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## Just Jack (Mar 5, 2006)

lol

she looks like one tough bun. really nice looking too. I'm guessing that one is a dm too (trying to see if I can start recognizing all the particulars)? What color is she?

troublemakers are always the most fun IMO.

I've checked out the new pics on the website and they all look like great parents. You look like you have a really nice set of does and bucks and they all sound like they have great temperaments. I guess that's why they are the lionhead kings, right?


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## Spring (Mar 5, 2006)

Hehe. So cute! Just a note about woody pet, I've been phoning around and I plan to phone the head office (I think). I went to the head office ting (only about 8 minutes away) and it said a note on the door saying "Not sold to the public", so I've been phoning around to see if anybody holds it. I might phone the head office to see if they can sugest someone who they supply for.


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## TinysMom (Mar 5, 2006)

*Spring wrote: *


> Hehe. So cute! Just a note about woody pet, I've been phoning around and I plan to phone the head office (I think). I went to the head office ting (only about 8 minutes away) and it said a note on the door saying "Not sold to the public", so I've been phoning around to see if anybody holds it. I might phone the head office to see if they can sugest someone who they supply for.


 You can visit their website to find a dealer...

www.woodypet.com

Also - that is the chestnut doe on the bag.....

Peg


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## Just Jack (Mar 7, 2006)

I'm finally ready to show some pics of what I have dubbed "The Bunny Mansion"!





complete with Super Bunny Look-out!





extra bunny step





and the first floor

it's so big! now I feel I need to get more stuff so it doesn't seem more barren.


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## Spring (Mar 7, 2006)

Can you say "spoiled rotten"? That is such an adorable little bunny mansion! *Coversr rabbits eyes* Boy, I can already see the rabbits lining up to take dibs on this house! Just wodnering, how much in total (not including toys as this'd probably be more then the actual house hehe) did it cost? 

Persoanlly, I think there are more than enough toys there but if you wanted to, and this is both my rabbits ultime favourite toy are paper towel rolls stuffed with hay and also a little cardboard box with low sides with a towel in it. They love to tear up the cardboard and scrunch up the towels. Also towels loose in the cage are good to.


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## TinysMom (Mar 7, 2006)

I do not dare show that to the girls as the ones you don't pick will sulk all the way home.

It's an AWESOME house....they're going to love it. I agree with the suggestion of paper towel rolls stuffed with hay. The girls also love crumpled paper and things like empty oatmeal containers (the Quaker Oats round ones)....and they like baskets and stuff to sleep in....I get the white plastic baskets at Walmart that have holes in the sides and are made by Sterlite - they are maybe 8" X 4" or something like that...

This is a crazy idea - but I would take a pair of socks and wear them for half an hour or so - and then toss them in there (all balled up). It will help them to get used to your scent...and they'll love to move the socks around. 

Have you figured out which girls you're leaning towards getting? I know you like the blue one....which others do you like? Any you don't care for?

Peg

P.S. I'm going to bring a couple of extra girls I think....just so you can see them and play with them...


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## Just Jack (Mar 7, 2006)

the single most expensive thing there is the Rubbermaid mat which was about $36 at Office Depot. What was really unfortunate was that they had just raised their prices on it when I bought it.

The cage consists of two Stacking Cube Sets from Bed Bath & Beyond at $15 each. 

The wood flooring and step came from Home Depot. They were cut (at HD for free) from one huge solid plank that was about $12. There were several large pieces of the board still left, including a piece that was too big to fit in my Civic so I left it in the parking lot. lol

Also there are four 3' x 1/2" x 1/2" pieces of hardwood holdin up the 2nd floor and extra step at $1.50 each.

so the total comes out to about $86

if you can go with something else besides the rubbermaid floor mat you can almost eliminate half of the costs.


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## Just Jack (Mar 7, 2006)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> I do not dare show that to the girls as the ones you don't pick will sulk all the way home.
> 
> It's an AWESOME house....they're going to love it. I agree with the suggestion of paper towel rolls stuffed with hay. The girls also love crumpled paper and things like empty oatmeal containers (the Quaker Oats round ones)....and they like baskets and stuff to sleep in....I get the white plastic baskets at Walmart that have holes in the sides and are made by Sterlite - they are maybe 8" X 4" or something like that...
> 
> ...


 lol, I certainly wouldn't want to have any sad bunnies on my conscience. I'd feel too bad and have to take them all home . So yeah, let's just make it a suprise for them.

So far I've got two toilet paper rolls for them and I'm working to kill off a roll of paper towels at the moment. I'm kicking myself now for buying Charmin Mega Rolls last month but luckily I made one mistake and got single ply so I'm using twice the normal amount. I have a lot of cardboard boxes that I can never seem to get rid of. We also go through 12-paks of Coke quite quickly though I wanted to ask if those are safe. I'll have to see about what I can do to make more "beds" for them.

I dunno about the socks... with me that'd likely kill them. I have some old undershirts that I could put on for awhile and then let them use to snuggle or play with. I guess rolled up socks would be more fun though.

I dunno it's really hard. We definetly love all five of them. They are all so adorable and their personalities only makes us like them more. I don't think there is really anything else we can do but wait and see which ones steal our hearts away... hopefully it's not all of them!


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## Spring (Mar 7, 2006)

ROFL! That last post made me laugh. Good idea with the shirt. You could also use an old t-shirt.. just wear it for a day. I just tried out shredded newspaper and Pebbles loves it! She snuggles down into it as it's really soft! The coke case shouldn't be toxic or dangerous as I'm trying that too (woohoo!) and going to make a little tunnel out of them (I've seen it done on this site.. looks really cool!)

I'msure you'll click with some. That's like with Pepsi. She was in a litter of three. I was looking at one, then I saw her and I fell in love with her. I felt sad about leaving the little one I was looking at but I knew for sure Pepsi was the one. It's sort of eerie how everything seems to work out.

Wow. Only $86!? (Thoguh it's in USA right? Just a bit more for Canada...) I paid in the sixties for my cage and it's like 1/5 as good! Also, I can't really see but do you have an opening at the top? If you don't, I'd suggest it because soemtimes when my rabbits being a little brat she runs up and down her ramp trying to play chase.


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## Just Jack (Mar 7, 2006)

good cause I have like 4-6 empty boxes of those just waiting to be attacked by bunnies

yeah I have a feeling that's the way it will be. right now I'd just want to take them all home 

it is quite cheap still. with what I've seen at petsmart a cage not even close to that size would probably cost over $200! Also it's not really easy (if at all possible) but the panel in front of the tower is not actually attached. It's just there for display purposes. Today I've hooked up a couple of rings to it and I'll be making it a secondary door. More importantly I have it there cause I need to be able to get to any accidents quickly and easily.


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## TinysMom (Mar 7, 2006)

You may want to get a couple of extra litterboxes because as I shared in email - these gals love to sleep in the litterbox.

I took them out of "lockup" after they spent a night in the cage....and they've still gotten along and been just fine. I needed the cage for a doe who had babies since it is a larger cage...

These girls are so hilarious though...I think they know something special is in the works....and the harlequin doe has really started coming out of her shell. She was binkying through the dining room this morning and then took off to investigate something.



Anyway - that's my suggestion - a couple more small litterboxes since they seem to love to sleep in something..



BTW - did I tell you that after the food bowl got dumped - one of them curled up in it to sleep? 



Peg


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## Just Jack (Mar 7, 2006)

lol I really want to see some binkying in person so bad! I can just imagine them gossiping with each other trying to figure out what it is all about.

I've got some extra boxes as I described in my new thread. Hopefully they won't be used for litter boxes though.


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## TinysMom (Mar 8, 2006)

It is so much fun to watch them when they first start learning to binkie. I haev some babies out tonight that were born 2/19....and they're starting to run and binky and you'll see a big rabbit run by and then this little teeny tiny baby running behind it as fast as it can...almost as if its saying, 'Wait up! Wait up!"

Peg


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## Just Jack (Mar 8, 2006)

That's just so crazy. I just can't picture in my mind a place with all these cute lil things running around all the time. It sounds like total chaos! Cute chaos though.


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## TinysMom (Mar 8, 2006)

*Just Jack wrote: *


> That's just so crazy. I just can't picture in my mind a place with all these cute lil things running around all the time. It sounds like total chaos! Cute chaos though.


 
What is funny is that a baby will watch an older bunny binkie - and then try to do it. 90% of the time they either run into a cage or flop on their tummy. Then they start trying to do their own type of binkie...some like longer jumps...some like higher twists, etc. So they'll try to perfect their binkie and once again - they wind up running into someone or a door or something.

What is really funny though is to see one from a litter take off and its littermate go, "Oh..I can do that" so then it will take off when the first one stops and then the first one will have to one-up the 2nd one and a third one will join in. The bigger the litter the more the competition.

I do enjoy letting my little ones play. From the time they start coming out of the nestbox until they are weaned - I try to start letting the ltiters have time TOGETHER so they get used to other bunnies...and I'll try to let them out with does that aren't their mamas so there is no fighting.

But it is cute to see a baby go up and try to nurse off an older weanling...

Peg


Edited to add: One of the babies came up to the blue doe and tried to nurse off her. I was a bit nervous as the blue doe is frequently timid...but she backed away and when the baby tried again she started grooming it and the baby settled down. The other rabbits (except for the sable point) pretty much just outran the babies and left them alone - the sable point has been grooming them though...


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## Just Jack (Mar 8, 2006)

Even though you get to see that all the time I just bet that it never gets old. All cute and hysterical at the same time. 

I can imagine the blue doe is thinking "Hey kid, I haven't even hit puberty yet... but your cute so I'll play mommy a lil bit." Besides all little girls want to play mommy when they are growing up.

Sunday, Sunday, Sunday! I'm getting so anxious. It's so close yet it feels so far away too. Time flies but at the same time it is standing still. I'm just looking so forward to meeting y'all and seeing all the bunnies. It still feels kind of surreal that it is finally happening. Saturday night I'm just not going to be able to sleep!

P.S. Elsa's mother wants to come to see the bunnies. That and of course she is being protective of her daughter traveling so far from home! lol She speaks only a little bit of english but she's very nice. I dunno but Elsa said that her father might try to go on this lil road trip too. We're praying that he won't... hopefully if Elsa's little sister stays at home so will he.


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## TinysMom (Mar 8, 2006)

*Just Jack wrote: *


> P.S. Elsa's mother wants to come to see the bunnies. That and of course she is being protective of her daughter traveling so far from home! lol She speaks only a little bit of english but she's very nice. I dunno but Elsa said that her father might try to go on this lil road trip too. We're praying that he won't... hopefully if Elsa's little sister stays at home so will he.


 I know the road trip would be really fun if you and Elsa were alone - but the nice thing is - if they do come along and see the various rabbits, etc ~ they may grow to understand your "rabbit habit" as it will probably become! I'm really dying to see you two interact with the rabbits and see who you pick. I won't be surprised if the blue doe is the first choice....but they really are all cute in their own way and she's pretty shy at first. (Watch her make me out to be a liar now).

If its hot out - (well - you probably have air conditioning - but if you dont') - bring some money to buy a cold soda so the rabbits can lay against the bottle. Also bring a little container to put water in for them to drink...like a margarine bowl or cool whip bowl or something. 

I'm going to be bringing water from our place - probably 2-3 small bottles. For the first day - give them our water - then mix it half and half w/ bottled water for a day or two - then mix half and half bottled water with your water for another day or so...just to help them adjust since we live so far apart. Of course, I tend to be overprotective about stuff like that...

Peg


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## Just Jack (Mar 8, 2006)

I know Elsa's mom will have fun on the trip. Also that way we can split the driving between her mom and me (Elsa doesn't drive). I can't wait to interact with those little critters. I've been practicing my nose wiggle and everything  Elsa will probably just cry and gush over how cute they are. You'll laugh, she gets so cute when she is looking at cute little loveable critters.

I guess it depends on which car we will be taking. Mine has very nice AC that really can chill things down quickly. I'll have to check and see how the AC is working in their SUV if we end up taking that. If anything that might be a deciding factor in which vehicle we will take.

That sounds like it would be a good idea. Water does certainly cary quite a bit from place to place.

Now if we can only pack some of your air too! lol


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## Spring (Mar 9, 2006)

Yup binkies are very cute. My little one is jsut getting the hang of them although they look more like running and jumps in the air but hey she's still learning. When I say something high pitched she looks at me and runs and does her little jump thing. I'm trying to get her to binky on command Hehe! I think when she hears my voice she just gets excited though!

Come on Sunday only 4 more days!:bunnydance:


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## Just Jack (Mar 9, 2006)

I dunno about teaching a bunny to binky on commend. Seems like it would defeat the whole purpose of that expression. I'd rather have them suprise me with a random extra happy binky whenever they feel like it. But either way that's really cool that your bunny is so constantly happy that she's doing them for you all the time.

tomorrow is my last day of class before spring break. then we just have to wait till Sunday! got a few more days to prep and a few more days to go nuts in anticipation.


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## TinysMom (Mar 9, 2006)

You think you're going nuts? :shock:

We've had one litter born today - I think I have three does that are nesting...and the sable point doe started mouting another rabbit and I was like, "NOOOOOOOO!!!! You were just a female yesterday!"

She still is thank goodness. Eric doesn't know who the other rabbit was for me to check him/her to see if she was trying to mate (she didn't look ready) or if the other doe was trying to mate. When one girl is ready...the other girls will practice mounting....not that it does any good.....

But that's far more than you needed to know probably.

Now I get to decide whether to stay up and wait in case Titania has her litter or go to bed.....she's not had a successful litter before so I'm nervous. (Stella was different today...she started pulling hair and nesting at 5:30 and by 6:30 she had 5 healthy babies squiriming around....)

Anyway...

BTW - depending upon the weather - I *may* bring along a couple of the younger babies so you can see what they look like....like the broken torts and maybe a tort from Mona Kea.

Peg


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## Just Jack (Mar 9, 2006)

lol and just the other day you were trying to convince me of becoming a breeder!

I hope Titania's litter comes out ok. That's got to be so depressing for her and you when they don't.

Those babies are so cute. I was showing them to Elsa today and she positively adored each and every one of them!

As for me I need to stop procrastinating and write my first draft for tomorrow morning before I get to go to bed.


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## TinysMom (Mar 9, 2006)

Naw....wasn't trying to convince you to become a breeder...was just saying that if you decided you WANTED to breed...I'd be glad to help y'all out....

Peg


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## Just Jack (Mar 9, 2006)

I was just kidding Peg  I know you would just want to help in case we started leaning towards a desire to breed bunnies.

Though I meant to say last night that one problem I think I would have being a breeder is that I would be so over-protective of my bunnies that I would have to quiz and certify that I was selling to someone who would give them a good home.


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## Just Jack (Mar 9, 2006)

Woohoo! It's officially the start of our Spring Break. No more classes for me till March 21st! Now I can spend all of my time obsessing and preparing for bunnies.:bunnydance:



So glad I can finally relax for a spell.


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## Just Jack (Mar 11, 2006)

only 28 hours and 20 mins till it's time for the great bunny trip!

everything's ready including the pies 

predicted high for Sunday in Alpine will be a very comfortable and sunny 74 degrees with the temperture forcasted to be 66-69 degrees between the hours of 12PM-2PM.

And I thought I'd just mention that our anniversary had officially started since midnight  As any good boyfriend should I'll be taking her to a nice romantic resteraunt (Dominic's Italian Resteraunt) and showering her with love, attention, affection, and a few nice presents.


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## Spring (Mar 11, 2006)

:bouquet:Happy anniversary! Waiting isso exciting! Counting down the hours seems like the longest time! Ittakes forever. But, if you don't think about it too much it seems tofly. Pretty soon you'll be meeting the new littel guys!

Be sure to post pictures and have a fab time today!


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## TinysMom (Mar 12, 2006)

Well - their food and medicines are packed andI've got TEN does in a cage to bring you. I'm bringing threechestnuts 'cause I don't know which one was the one I took photosof....plus I'm bringing some blacks for you to see. Actually- it may be eleven...I just realized we have the wrong harlequin inthere....

These girls are all the same basic age and pretty much the samesize. They've lived together in the rabbitry and dining roomfor a bit..

I'm also emailing you their suggested treat schedule so they don't get greens too early, etc.

Anyway - they're all together and not in a very good mood right now about the trip....but they should be fine!

Peg


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## Just Jack (Mar 12, 2006)

ELEVEN BUNNIES!:thud

look out guys cause here we come!:happydance :lol:


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## TinysMom (Mar 12, 2006)

*Just Jack wrote: *


> ELEVEN BUNNIES!:thud
> 
> look out guys cause here we come!:happydance :lol:


Yeah - they worked all night on their alliances and who they wanted to vote out and who they wanted to be the final two to be...

....and then mom comes along and splits them up into 2 carriers......they're a bit grumpy right now.

I'm still debating on tossing a broken tort in there for you to look at- a bit nervous about stressing them out with the ride at this agethough.....then again - they'd be with "friends"...

Peg


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## TinysMom (Mar 12, 2006)

Well, I thought I'd update the forum that JustJack &amp; I met and had a fun time together as they played withthe rabbits and gave the rabbits time to get to know them. 

I'm not going to share who they got because that's Just Jack's story toshare. But I will say that there are some lucky bunnies in amansion tonight!

The ones I brought home were like, "We made the trip for nothing?"....(just kidding)...

Peg


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## Maureen Las (Mar 12, 2006)

Thats great Peg can't wait to hear from Just Jack :bunnydance:


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## Just Jack (Mar 12, 2006)

I will be updating soon! Maybe startour own bunny blog  but I'm going to wait till I finishgetting the digital photos resized and cropped.


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## Just Jack (Mar 13, 2006)

ok, I've finished uploading. I think for here I'll just post a quick pic of each of the bunnies.

oh yeah, how many bunnies do we have now? 

FOUR!:bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance:

We just could not narrow down our choices to fewer than 4:lol: I almost wanted to take both chestnuts (would have been5) as they both really seemed like they wanted me to take them home.

So here they are... our 4 little monsters:colors:






No suprise that we did pick her. We loved her the moment we laid eyes on her. 
We have decided to name her Ella!:bunnydance:





We love her with he little nipped ear and all! We had already picked out.
She is Calabacita (Lil Pumpkin) or Cala for short! :bunnydance:





I hadn't seen her before today but she blew me away. She isso beautiful. Her dark black mane is just lovely and she isso outgoing and curious. We haven't yet figured out what toname her but we'll make sure it will be worthy of her.:bunnydance:





Last but certainly not least is this cute lil girl here. Shewas one of the two chestnuts who just voluntarily jumped up to cuddlein my lap when we first met. How could I resist someone sooutgoing and friendly! Again we will have to find a nameworthy of this lil lover bun.:bunnydance:

Poor ladies weren't too happy with getting their premiere photos takenlike this. Playing in the grass had gotten them alreadypretty messy. Then they spill the bowl of water on the wayhome and just get their fur all messy and dirty looking.We'll have to get them all nice and pretty tomorrow and take morephotos.

Now to see if I have the energy to start a new bunny blog!


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## Maureen Las (Mar 13, 2006)

:shock2:OMG 4 sweet little ones...they are darling..I can understand how you couldn't make a choice.


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## TinysMom (Mar 13, 2006)

*Just Jack wrote:*


> We just could not narrow down our choices to fewer than 4:lol: I almost wanted to take both chestnuts (would have been5) as they both really seemed like they wanted me to take them home.




I really thought for a bit that you were going to take both chestnutsand I knew it was hard to decide between that and taking the blackone. I don't know if i should tell you - but the otherchestnut sulked once she got home and she sat in the carrier and lookedat me for a bit and refused to get out. 

However, she's now sitting outside of a buck's cage and flirting withhim and stealing his hay. I've got to say - in a way, I wasalmost glad you didn't take her because as I told Robin - she wasalmost one of my picks...

I don't care about the girls getting grass all over them and then water spilled on them...to me - they'll always be beautiful!

Peg


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## TinysMom (Mar 13, 2006)

While my mind is on it - and I'm in a talkative mood - I thought I'd tell you a little story about the chestnut doe's mother.

First of all - three of the rabbits you got from us - we got theirmothers FREE from a breeder going out of the business. Theblue doe's mama is named Delta and she lost her first two litters - butshe did an awesome job with this litter and we know she's gonna be agreat mama. The orange doe's mama is named Stella and she hashad three litters for us now. Two litters of six each - andshe just proved that our little Pelee' can breed and gave us fivetorts! She has an awesome mane to this day. 

But the chestnut's mama....is really something else. She isone of the uglier lionheads I've ever seen but she produces the mostbeautiful babies. Her name is Matilda. 

When we had our problem with feed last fall - Matilda had a litter with8 babies in them and she was nursing them. For some reason -she was able to have her milk come in. Other mamas - were nothaving their milk come in...

So I think that it was for 3 days....she would nurse her 8 babies, andthen 8 hours later she would nurse another set of 8 babies - and 8hours later - she would nurse yet another 8 babies for us.

That is right - for three days - she nursed 24 babies and kept themalive until their mamas recovered from our food problem and we couldget does with milk.

With her last litter - she also pulled so much fur - that she exposedall of her nipples - even the ones way up by her front legs.When she would sit up, it looked like she needed undergarments therefor support.

But perhaps one of the funniest things about her - is that she is on a2nd level cage. When I go out in the rabbitry in the a.m.- Iopen her door and let her jump out. Whenever she wants - shejumps back in her cage - and if I need her to get in her cage I'll justtell her she needs to go back and she'll go jump in - sometimes with abit of encouragement. 

When she hears the food - she jumps in her cage by herself and then I lock her in for the night....

BTW - I think your black doe is from Lava. Both of my kidssay she looks like Lava's and I tend to agree....I'll look up herbirthday later.

So - that is the story of some of your babies' moms.....

Peg


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## naturestee (Mar 13, 2006)

Wow! Four! Congrats, Jack!

I can't wait for more pictures!:colors:


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## jordiwes (Mar 13, 2006)

:bunnydance:I can see many hilarious stories coming out of these four. Can't wait to hear more about them!


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## Spring (Mar 13, 2006)

:laugh:They are so silly looking withtheir little messy faces! It looks like they're saying "Hey Dad, wetried to have a abth to clean ourselves off but no.. it didn't work!"Silly little munchkins :brat:

I bought a baby brush to use for my little lionhead and it works prettywell. The bristles are so soft and she sits there with her eyes closedwhile I'm giving her a hair-do. (Her fav so far is the bo-hawk!)

Ok correct me if I've got this wrong, so the little black one who's inthe main picture is Ella and the orange one is named Cala? And you neednames for the black one, and the black and light coloured one?

Hmm for the black and light coloured one what about Bailey? That's the only name I can think of when I lok at her


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## Just Jack (Mar 13, 2006)

They are so much fun! :lol: We letthem out to play today. The black one was the first to comeout. She just went over the whole place checking everythingout. Second was the chestnut followed by Ella. Calareally took her time coming out to play.

They seem to be warming up to the place quite nicely  Thechestnut was the first to start binkying and really running around thewhole place. The black one was the scond to binky all overthe place. Calabacita also did a half-binky at onepoint. Ella hasn't binkied but she seems to enjoy us pettingand grooming her.:bunnydance:

One really cute things that the black one does is when she's lookingout from behind one of the couches and I crawl up to her.When I get about two feet away she'll come bounding out and bump&amp; nuzzle noses with me.

The chesnut is just so crazy. Elsa is saying we might startcalling her Phoebe (Pheebs for shorts) after the funny crazy PheobeBuffay character of Friends.

Sorry we haven't started the whole bunny blog yet. We've beenspending all this time playing with the bunnies and now I have a wholenew set of photos to resize, crop, &amp; upload.:thud


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## TinysMom (Mar 13, 2006)

Any regrets about getting four instead of two? Finding a favorite yet? 

I love hearing about the girls - I have tears in my eyes at hearing how well they're doing at settling in w/ y'all.

Peg


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## Just Jack (Mar 13, 2006)

oh we have absolutely no regrets :lol:we've been enjoying watching them run around the apartment together ina lil pack.

It's still hard to pick a favorite. The chestnut is so funny,crazy, and energetic we just love watching her sprint all over theplace, then flop down and jump right back up again and sprint all overthe place. The black one is so curious and sweet.She also likes to be petted a little bit. Ella is the cuddlerand we love her for that. She also recently jumped out fromthe top of the cage all the way down to the floor when I had my backedturned. I didn't think they could escape from that height atthis point. :lol: Cala is making us really work for herlove. She doesn't seemed interested in being petted quiteyet. She'll allow a little forehead rub and picking a fewbits of grass from her fur. She really doesn't like beingpicked up and it was quite a struggle to get her back in the cage.

I had a couple of quick questions. I got concerned over howmuch water they were drinking cause I filled up an enitre 32oz waterbottle and in the course of 12 hours the water level hadn't droppedmuch. I checked it and it seemed like water wasn't reallycoming out. At that point I first put water into the littledish I had and each bunny had a turn at it drinking quite heavily outof there (had to refill that small lil dish severaltimes). I examined the spout on the water bottle,made sure there wasn't anything in there and put it back in thecage. They continue to go up to it and drink from it and nowI see air bubbles when they drink. Still the water leveldoesn't drain as quickly out of there as it does out of the littlebowl. I'm kind of concerned as to whether this bottle isworking right and what should I be seeing.

Also I just wanted to check and make sure that these were cecotropes.


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## naturestee (Mar 13, 2006)

Those look like normal fecals to me, not cecotropes. They should be eating their cecotropes before you see them.

They may be having trouble with your water bottle. Try giving them a bowl for now.

Sounds like you're having a great time with them! If you'rehaving trouble getting them all back in the cage, make a point offeeding them when they go back in and call them while you dothat. They usually don't mind going back if they know they'regetting food!


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## Just Jack (Mar 13, 2006)

ok, I thought they were cecotropes because theywere kind of slimy but I guess maybe that is because I picked them upwhen they were fresh.

I got them out again for a little evening playtime. They'vebeen running around and pooping all over the place. Theyalready seem litter trained in that I haven't found any signs of urineexcept for in the litte box. I'll see about putting some foodin their cage to entice them before we close them up for the night.

It was really cute earlier as the black one was jumping and binkyingall around Elsa and then settled down near her to bepetted.:bunnydance: I had not expected them to warm up to usso quickly!


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## Just Jack (Mar 13, 2006)

oh yeah, some of the others seem to be smelling the rear of the black one.


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## Maureen Las (Mar 13, 2006)

Jack with a a :laugh:handful of poop just beats everything


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## Spring (Mar 14, 2006)

The droppings you showed are the normal wasteones. The droppings you were talking aobut are usually eaten straightfrom the source right away. But if you do see them they look like ablack cluster of tiny bead looking things that smells really bad!

The water bottle if you aren't getting when you put the back of yourhand to it at least a rain drop sized amount of water then have thebowl in. I would also put the bowl and the water bottle in just incase. 

Sounds like everyones being silly! It'snormal for rabbits tobe naughty when they know they are going back in their cage. Pebblesalways runs under my dresser when she sees me coming with my hands lol!She senses her freedom is coming to an end for now, so it's just fine!Just give her extra cuddles and she'll be fine and dandy!

:bunnydance:Sounds like we've just had two morebunnyloving people! Woohoo!Only wish more peoplecould realize how fun buns are!


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## TinysMom (Mar 14, 2006)

*Just Jack wrote:*


> oh yeah, some of the others seem to be smelling the rear ofthe black one.


Oh no.........

I forgot to check them on Sunday morning one last time.

You better check this page and then check them for me....

http://www.debmark.com/rabbits/sexing.htm

Peg


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## TinysMom (Mar 14, 2006)

*Just Jack wrote: *


> I had a couple of quick questions. I got concerned over howmuch water they were drinking cause I filled up an enitre 32oz waterbottle and in the course of 12 hours the water level hadn't droppedmuch. I checked it and it seemed like water wasn't reallycoming out. At that point I first put water into the littledish I had and each bunny had a turn at it drinking quite heavily outof there (had to refill that small lil dish severaltimes). I examined the spout on the water bottle,made sure there wasn't anything in there and put it back in thecage. They continue to go up to it and drink from it and nowI see air bubbles when they drink. Still the water leveldoesn't drain as quickly out of there as it does out of the littlebowl. I'm kind of concerned as to whether this bottle isworking right and what should I be seeing.


They are used to both a water bottle and a dish of water as they likedto hop the barrier and go drink from the dog's watering bottlething. So some may prefer a bowl while others prefer thebottle...



Peg


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## Just Jack (Mar 14, 2006)

we think the black one looks like agirl. I'm hoping if anything this is meaning that the problemmight be the black one and not the 3 others are bucks :thud:

I'm going to e-mail you a picture we took. We're gonna cry ifshe turns out to be a he. I guess we'd just end up gettingher/him a smaller cage till we can get her/him fixed.


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## TinysMom (Mar 14, 2006)

It could just be that they didn't hang out together as much....so they're trying to get to know her better....

Peg


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## Just Jack (Mar 14, 2006)

We really REALLY hope so!

we're still so cofused. I compared Ella to the blackone. Ella really did not like being handled like that 

Our results are still inconclusive. They definetly seem to bedifferent. The black one has a bit of a wet pink thing comingout when pressure is put near there but it appears to have a slit orhole in the top of it.

I dunno about checking any of the others to further compare as itappears they don't like being handled as much as Ella and the black one.


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## Spring (Mar 14, 2006)

I don't know about the gender :?!

Don't be worried if she's a bit skitterish. They just need some warmingup to. It is still the firs t day too!  She's jsut a bit shy I think.


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## Just Jack (Mar 14, 2006)

we're not worried about the others becoming morecomfortable with us  really I was quite suprised that theyare so comfortable with us already!

at least they all seem really happy to be here and that's the most important thing:bunnydance:


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## TinysMom (Mar 14, 2006)

*Just Jack wrote:*


> we're not worried about the others becoming more comfortablewith us  really I was quite suprised that they are socomfortable with us already!
> 
> at least they all seem really happy to be here and that's the most important thing:bunnydance:


So we're going to see you start your bunny blog *WHEN?* (hint, hint) 

I'm anxiously awaiting more photos here....

Peg


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## Just Jack (Mar 14, 2006)

soon soon :lol: this morning I finished touching up all the photos and uploading them

Today we have discovered who we really believe the buck tobe. Turns out it's Ella (blue doe). We caught hertrying to mount the chestnut. 

How old is blue? With him trying to start mounting some ofthe others already I wonder are we going to have to separatehim? We're still letting them play together but making surehe doesn't start up with anyone.


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## Spring (Mar 14, 2006)

Mounting isn't always to do with what you mightthink it would. Sometimes they just do it to find out who's dominant.Hopefully they are all girls! Or Ella will have to turn into Earl!


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## naturestee (Mar 14, 2006)

Have you found a rabbit-savvy vet? You could bring them in and have them sexed.

It's really hard to tell gender by their actions. One of myspayed girls (Sprite) likes to mount a lot. She and Mochawere both known to spray the walls a little before they were spayed.


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## Just Jack (Mar 14, 2006)

good point. well that just puts us back at square one again. 

we checked the chestnut and it was very obvious that she is a girl.

now we just aren't sure about the blue one and the black one. I kind of have the feeling that they are both boys.

if this is the case we might try splitting the cage into top and bottom cages till they get fixed.


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## Pipp (Mar 14, 2006)

WILL YOU GUYS START A BLOG ALREADY!!! :waiting:


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## naturestee (Mar 14, 2006)

:yeahthat

:bunny17


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## Just Jack (Mar 14, 2006)

:lol: I promise I'll start the bunnyblog as soon as we get back from Petsmart which we will get to once wefigure out whether we are going to need to either divide the cage intotwo parts or buy an extra smaller cage. And if I do have toseparate them then I'll need to make sure that I have enough food andwater balls for all of them.


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## Nadezhda (Mar 14, 2006)

Since my boys decided to be all hormoney, I'vebeen stealing dishes from the kitchen so that they both have water andfood dishes! Good luck finding all your bun equipment!


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## jordiwes (Mar 14, 2006)

I use the lid of a (1kg)craft peanutbutter jar for my water dish. Jordi loves to drink and chew on the edgeat the same time.

I can't wait to see how this turns out! I think it'll be great if you have 2 boys and 2 girls!


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## Just Jack (Mar 14, 2006)

well it's official, we went to petsmart to getthem checked! we do have 2 boys and 2 girls :lol:it proved very easy to just put the square piece of wood in the hole ofthe second floor to make two cages. Now we just have tofigure out what will be the names for the boys.


so now I'll get started on the bunny blog!


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## TinysMom (Mar 14, 2006)

*Just Jack wrote:*


> well it's official, we went to petsmart to get themchecked! we do have 2 boys and 2 girls :lol: itproved very easy to just put the square piece of wood in the hole ofthe second floor to make two cages. Now we just have tofigure out what will be the names for the boys.
> 
> 
> so now I'll get started on the bunny blog!




:growl:Oh NO!!!!

I'm so sorry.....I really am.

I think I'll go hide my head...

Peg


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## Just Jack (Mar 14, 2006)

I don't think it's going to be aproblem. I guess we're going to have to start splitting uptheir playtime though. I was thinking that maybe I'll let theboys out first then towards the end of the boys' time out we can letthe girls out so they can interact with each other for a littlebit. Then we'll put the boys away and let the girls continueto stay out for a good while. 

This should only stay this way for a couple of weeks or so until we canget the boys fixed. Just gotta find out how old the black oneis so we can see how soon we can get him neutered.


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## TinysMom (Mar 14, 2006)

The black one was born December 21 according to my records.

Peg


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## Just Jack (Mar 14, 2006)

ok so in the next week or two we'll be able to get them neutered and they can rejoin their female friends


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## naturestee (Mar 14, 2006)

*Just Jack wrote:*


> ok so in the next week or two we'll be able to get themneutered and they can rejoin their female friends



FYI as you might not know this yet- neutered males can still haveliving sperm for 3-4 weeks after the surgery. So you'll needto wait a little before reintroducing them.

I guess the gender fairy found you already!:shock:


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## Spring (Mar 14, 2006)

Don't worry Peg, Jack doesn't seem to upset of the new change. Now you can have two bunny couples :love:

Well atleast look on the bright side, you'll save a bit on the two spayings if they were female.


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## Just Jack (Mar 15, 2006)

*naturestee wrote:*


> *Just Jack wrote: *
> 
> 
> > ok so inthe next week or two we'll be able to get them neutered and they canrejoin their female friends
> ...



well that's some very important information!:shock: Guessthat means they are going to need to be separated longer.We'll still try to supervise short stints of free-for-all playtime asthey seem to have more fun when everyone is out.

We're really having to work on gaining the girls' trust more than theboys. The girls are the worst when it comes to being putaway. Tonight we really upset the chestnut when we had totrap her to get her to go into her cage for the night. Shewas very upset thumping the ground quite a bit. We spent sometime after picking her up just holding her, petting her, and talkingsweetly to her to try and make her feel better.

When she was put in her cage it was like nothing had happened and shejust flopped down to take a nap. However, even if they aren'treally upset it seems like we are losing the trust of thefemales. We're going to try keeping the cage completelyclosed when it comes to playtime and we hope by the time we let them goback to their cage they'll be really hungry and thirsty so they won'thave a problem going back inside. Elsa is also suggestingthat we let them out just once a day (for a good few hours) instead oftwice a day.

We're going to also try picking them up without the ultimate intentionof that being to put them back in their cage. That's anotherproblem I think we've encountered as they seem to have figured out thatevery time we pick them up means they are being locked up.Also there's been a couple times where we've used a treat to draw outthe chestnut and we think she has already learned to not trust treatsfrom us. 

Again the old adage is true... boys are so much easier than girls!


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## TinysMom (Mar 15, 2006)

Don't put their food down till you're ready to put them back in their cage...then loudly pour it in from a scoop.

They'll usually come running...

Peg


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## Just Jack (Mar 15, 2006)

yeah I think someone else suggested that too... I dunno how long it will take for them to get trained/used to that.

though at the same time I was wondering if you are also suggesting thatthey at least always have a source of water while playing?


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## naturestee (Mar 15, 2006)

My rabbits get really upset if they can't getinto their cages while they are playing. That's their safeterritory. And yes, they should always have access to water.

Mine got the idea of going back to the cage for food reallyquickly. If you're not feeding veggies, give them each atreat when they go back, too. They do learn.

Give the girls some time- they just went through a major upheaval. Some rabbits take time to settle in.


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## Just Jack (Mar 15, 2006)

yeah and it also looks like the girls may be kind of hormonal. both of them seem to be in heat.

I'll leave a water dosh for playtime. I think they also findmy couches to be their safe areas since those too are quite cage like.






These guys all seem so very smart. They quickly learn all our little tricks and find ways to foil our "evil plans."

it's been kind of shocking how tired these little guys are gettingus. Usually I'm the type to stay up into the wee hours of theAM but now we're both really tired at the end of the day.


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## Spring (Mar 15, 2006)

So cute! I have the same problem with mylionhead Pebbles. She'll be running around and as soon as she sees mekneeling down she'll skitter off to another corner of the room. I'vefound that picking them up a few times before the big deal of puttingthem back in their cage helps. Then they get used to being picked up.The first time they might skitter away but then they getusedto it.It's natural for rabbits to be like thatwhen they think they're going to be locked away. 

I'm always finding Pebbles under my dresser laying down. I think theylike the feeling of being under something (like in the wild burrows). Ionce had the bottem drawer open, and there was a shelf thingat the back of it and I looked under and I couldn't see her and thoughtshe had gone under my bed but she was hiding on the shelf.


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## TinysMom (Mar 15, 2006)

*Just Jack wrote:*


> yeah and it also looks like the girls may be kind ofhormonal. both of them seem to be in heat.
> 
> These guys all seem so very smart. They quickly learn all our little tricks and find ways to foil our "evil plans."
> 
> it's been kind of shocking how tired these little guys are gettingus. Usually I'm the type to stay up into the wee hours of theAM but now we're both really tired at the end of the day.


It does sound like you're enjoying them. The girls may not somuch be "in heat" as working out who is the boss....by showingdominance and mounting. 

Also - I should have warned you - one of the reasons we have therabbits play loose in our rabbitry and allow them into our house is webelieve it helps to increase their intelligence and curiousity (asopposed to staying in a cage all the time). We really dothings a LOT differently here than most breeders as we want our rabbitsto be curious and maybe even a bit of a "troublemaker" attimes. I feel like that shows that they have a uniquepersonality...

I really love seeing pictures of the chestnut one.....I'm so glad you shared!

Peg


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## RO STAFF 2 (Mar 15, 2006)

_Definition: Blog (short forweblog).a journal (or newsletter) that is frequently updatedand intended for general public consumption. Blogs generally representthe personality of the author or the Web site._

Hmmm... Looks like a blog.... Readslike a blog... It's just not titled a blog. 

What if we merge this thread with the Just Jack Rabbits new (and almostempty) blog thread and just call a blog a blog?


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## Just Jack (Mar 15, 2006)

:lol: well mostly I've been asking questionsabout their behaviors here. For the blog I'm planning (andworking) on something more story-like, organized, and with a lot morepictures.

We've jut been working with the bunnies so much that we haven't hadmuch time for anything else. I have two other boards(non-bunny related) that I frequent and I haven't posted on them prettymuch since we've gotten these guys. :lol: I'm just glad wegot these guys just in time for spring break so we don't have tostruggle with work as well.


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## Spring (Mar 15, 2006)

Enjoy every minute with them! They grow so fastII have Pebbles on my lap right now and she was in the position when Iwas first holding her and she's grown like double in size. I missher tiny size and she's still tiny! LOL


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## Just Jack (Mar 16, 2006)

Well hopefully they won't grow too much bigger!:lol: Peg says that they are pretty much 2/3rds as big asthey will get or some might even just stay that big for good.

We were thinking today that it might be a good idea to get the doesfixed first for a few reasons. First they are the ones havingmore behavioral problems and tend to be just peeing all over the placewhile the bucks mostly pee in the litter box or on other adjacentcorner. Secondly I think the does are older, Cala is over 12weeks old though I'm not sure about Pheebs. Also, unless I ammistaken, once the girls are fixed there is no worries about themgetting pregnant, so the bucks can start being around them again thatmuch sooner.


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## Spring (Mar 16, 2006)

Yes it might be good to get the does fixedfirst. Although I've heard they still have to wait a few days or soafter the surgery to heal from it so I'm guessing in the cage for a fewdays?Yesterday my littel girl snapped at me when I was filling herdish... enough to leave a bruise. Silly girls!


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