# HELP!!



## Daffy (Aug 27, 2006)

Hi all, we've 4 bunnies in total, 3 lionhead andone rex. We bought Roxy and schumi 3 months ago, both fromthe same litter and were told they were both female. Theyhave been happily sharing the same run and hutch up until yesterdaywhen Roxy had her first litter of 6 kits :?We know nothingabout breeding rabbits and are totally unprepared for this. Icalled the vet for advice whichwas basically check themperiodically to make sure all is ok and let the mum get on withit. I'd feel happier if they were in the house and we couldkeep a closer eye on them but mum gets nervous whenever someone entersthe garden so I don't know how she'd react if we interferred with hernest. She has made her nest in an enclosed area but it is onthe ground. She dug a shallow dip and lined it with furpulled out of her abdomen. The area is secure. I'm frightenedto look in or check the kits too much in case she rejectsthem. They all look to be being fed by mum and she is doingwell. She is fine with us as long as we don't look to begoing into her nest, then she gets a bit agitated. I'm notsure if we should be changing her diet while she is nursing or not. Dadhas been moved into a run alongside mum and the kids and she is doingher best to break out and be with him. I've recovered fromthe shock a bit and now its happened I'm really excited aboutit. I'd just like some advice to enable me to do the bestthing for mum and kits. All advice gratefully recieved,thanks :bunnydance:


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## naturestee (Aug 27, 2006)

First things first. How soon after thebirth were you able to remove Schumi? If they had any timebetween the birth and being separated, Roxy is probably pregnantagain. That means another litter in 4 weeks.

I'm not a breeder, so the most advice I can give is to read the info here:
http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=5541&amp;forum_id=8

Best of luck! I'm sure there will be some experienced breeders on soon to give you more advice.


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## Daffy (Aug 27, 2006)

I think we removed him about 1 - 1.5 hours afterthe birth. We'd just put fresh food in for both before goingout and there were no kits at that point. When we came backwe noticed what we thought was blood on roxy's nose. When we tried toinvestigate she ran into her hutch and we found the kits. Wehad our other ( definately female) rabbits spayed at 5 months and wewere waiting until that time for these two.I spoketo the pet shop today who have admitted getting the sex wrong and haveoffered to pay for neutering schumi but it still leaves me with theproblem of housing the litter. I would never have kept themtogether if I had thought for a minute they were differentsexes. Can someone tell me the probability that roxy could bepregnant again? I think I'm in for a very long 30 day wait!!


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## aurora369 (Aug 27, 2006)

I would say you've got about 95% chance or higher of having another litter in 28-30 days.

Make sure momma has free access to pellets and hay at all times, so shecan get enough nutrients to nurse her babies and sustain herselfthrough a second pregnancy.

I would also consider switching her over to a high protien fooddesigned for breeding does. If you can get to a feed store,they should carry a 16-18% protein food. Try to get 18% ifyou can. 

Switch food slowly though, you don't want to upset her tummy.Start by only putting 1/4 new food and 3/4 old food, and graduallyswitch over the next month.

With the babies, it's important to check the nest to make sure thereare no still borns or placentas left in the nest. 

Give momma a special treat to distract her, then uncover the nest, andsearch the whole nest. Then when you're done, cover the nestwith the fur again.

I'm glad to hear the pet store is willing to pay for the boy's neuter,but it just goes to show you that most pet stores don't have a cluewhen it comes to sexing small animals. 

Please keep in touch, and ask as many questions as you need!We're hear to help you though this! And as payment, we demandpictures!!!

--Dawn


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## Daffy (Aug 27, 2006)

Ok, thats a big shock. Loads ofpotential questions on that scenario, so I'll concentrate on theimediate problems and go there if I have too. We've done acheck of the nest to make sure there were no stillborn and everythinglook clean and ok. How do you know if the're being fed? I've done someweb searching and know that mums feed once or twice a day and that thekits should have round tummies.., problem is, I'm not sure how round isround and is this just after feeding or all the time? The kits don'tmove unless the fur is taken off them and then they get quite activeand give wee squeaks. They settle back down once the fur isreplaced. We've counted 6 and checked that all are moving butwe haven't lifted any to check them individually. I'm scaredthat mum will reject them if we interfere too much. She knowsus, lived in the house with us for a few weeks before moving to theirbunny pen in the garden, but she isn't a cuddly bunny and dosen't likebeing petted and handled. She will run over to see us whenwe're in the garden and she did let us check the kits the last timewithout looking fussed. I think tomorrow I will just have totake a deep breath and lift each one to check it over and keep myfingers crossed that mum is ok with that. Thanks for all theadvice given...., I'll post some pics as soon as I can.


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## aurora369 (Aug 27, 2006)

I can't find the pictures I have of brand newbabies, but these ones are 4 days old, and show nice roundbellies. As long as the belly area is not sunken or they lookvery wrinkled, they should be okay. Moving about and sqeakingwhen the fur is moved is a good sign, momma bunny will move the furaside just before feeding, so that's why the babies get all excited.








Sorry these pictures aren't the best, I can't find the ones I was thinking of.

If you want to look through my galleries, you can see some pictures of healthy babies, from my two litters and my foster babies.

http://www.biggercages.com/gallery

If you are worried about rejection, there a few steps you can take toprevent that. Before handling the babies, if mom will letyou, rub your hands on her to get her smell on your hands. Oryou can put a tiny dab of vanilla extract on the babies, and a smalldab on mom's nose, that way the babies smell like her.

--Dawn


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## Daffy (Aug 27, 2006)

Thanks for that, I'll try it tomorrow and report back.


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## TinysMom (Aug 27, 2006)

I am assuming that they are lionhead babies - and if so - I wanted to point out something.

If the babies are "double-mane" lionheads - when their fur comes in -they are going to look "funky" and not have hair on their sides andcertain other areas. This is where the "mane" will come inlater - but for a few days it looks like they're only getting hair insome areas and not other areas. I don't have any photos that I canaccess quickly to show you - sorry.

Anyway - when their fur comes in - if it isn't all over - don't getstressed out. It is just that the mane type of fur takes longer to comein.

Peg

P.S. Generally, my lionhead mamas are great mamas and don't haveproblems with the babies. I've heard other breeders say they are amongthe easiest mamas to take care of (I don't know since I haven't hadthat many breeds or anything). But your mama will probably know what todo since she madea nest, etc.


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## Daffy (Aug 28, 2006)

We checked them individually today and they alllook to be doing well ( fingers crossed) Mum was feeding them when wepeeked in this morning. Two crawled out of the nest justafter being fed so it was lucky we ere there to put them backin. I'm wondering whether to put mums nest in a nesting boxto stop this happening again or whether that will put mum off.....,what do you all think? She has settled down a lot now and wasn'tbothered with our interference this morning.

In regard to their breed, the pet shop said they were lionhead butafter reading and looking at the pics posted on this forum I'm not sosure. They look more like a dwarf french lop to me with asmall mane of fur. I'm trying to get my camera to work so Icanpost pics for you.

Again, thanks for your replies and help. 

Isobel


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## aurora369 (Aug 28, 2006)

If the babies are coming out of the nest at feeding, then I think it is advisable to put the nest in a box.

Don't move the location, just scoop up the nest, and place it in a boxwith some hay/straw. Make a nice divit, like the one mama dugin the earth with the bedding, then transfer the nest to the box,trying to keep as much of the original nest intact as possible.

--Dawn


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## Daffy (Aug 28, 2006)

Thanks, we'll give that a go. I've managed to get a couple of pics ( hope this works). First a group shot


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## Daffy (Aug 28, 2006)

One of the fattest


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## Daffy (Aug 28, 2006)

and one of the smallest


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## Daffy (Aug 28, 2006)

and not forgetting mum herself


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## Daffy (Aug 28, 2006)

and lastly..., dad


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## NZminilops (Aug 28, 2006)

They are all very beautiful! You are doing agreat job . Good on you for keeping mum and dad within sight ofeachother afterwards too as they will have a bond with eachother andget a bit stressed if they are seperated totally (well in my experienceanyway).

The babies look good to me, nice and fat with good colour.


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## aurora369 (Aug 28, 2006)

Well, the babies definitly look nice and fat!

Good job!

--Dawn


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## aeposten (Aug 28, 2006)

Such teeney little bunnies!

EDIT: *gasp* Post number 100! I have appeased The Oswald!


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## naturestee (Aug 29, 2006)

Wrigglies! :inlove:

The parents are cute too! They look like lionhead/lop mixes to my untrained eye.


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## Daffy (Aug 31, 2006)

A day 5 pic..., can't believe how fast theydevelop. I'm a bit concerned for the one in the secondpic. He is lively and seems to be feeding but his fur is notcoming in as fast as the others...., is this ok?


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## Daffy (Aug 31, 2006)

The wee one


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## Redneckrabbits (Aug 31, 2006)

The little white one is a DOuble Mane, it willgrow it's mane in the bare area as it gets older. Usually the ones thattake the longest to grow in have the manes that stay longer as adults. 



Very cute babies:colors:Good Luck with Them.

Pam W.

Lionheads and Holland Lops

Bartlesville, OK


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## Redneckrabbits (Aug 31, 2006)

They are very cute(the parents) but look on the large size. Any ideas what they weigh? Just curious.



Pam


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## Snuggys Mom (Aug 31, 2006)

Can you hold the mom and let the littlest one(s) have an extra feed during the day?

That one looks so little, bless his heart.


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## Daffy (Aug 31, 2006)

We,ve managed to let the wee one have a suckleat mum by keeping Roxys attention with some food. I don'tthink she got much before mum ran off but we'll try again tomorrow....,at least a bit extra should help. Is the lack of fur a sign that it isnot feeding enough? The other 5 are very furry and fat. Shedid have a wee on me so I'll take that as a good sign 

I have no idea what weightthe parentsare, I'll try and weigh themtomorrow.


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## Snuggys Mom (Aug 31, 2006)

If you could manage to put the mom on her side(on a towel on your lap) and let the little baby nurse for a bit, itwouldhelp a lot. 

You can distract mom with treatsand a soothing voice. 

Maybe one of the breeders here could be more helpful withthis. I've never actually done it - just read aboutit.


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## Daffy (Aug 31, 2006)

We'll try with that - it has the advantage ofbeing able to see whether the wee one has managed to latch on ornot. Roxy dosen't like being handled so we will have to hopeshe settles down on her side by her own will. Problem is ifwe give her a treat she will sit up to eat it.Dadwould be quite happy to sit and be petted like that but unfortunatelynot mum. We'll give it a try and reportback.


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## aurora369 (Sep 1, 2006)

Just let mom stand in a natural uprightposition, distract her with food/treats/pets and hold the baby upsidedown to her teats. This is least stressful for mom, and leastpossibility of hurting the baby.

Daffy, I believe the lack of fur is due to the baby being a doublemaned lionhead. I believe Tinysmom (Peg) had mentioned thatearlier in the thread.

They all look really good though, good job!

--Dawn


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## Daffy (Sep 2, 2006)

Yes, thanks TinysMum! I re-read the thread theother night and your post describes the wee one exactly. Heis doing well now, still looks " furrily challenged" but can hold hisown in the fat tummy stakes 

Here are some day 7 pics


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## naturestee (Sep 2, 2006)

:heartbeat

What cuties! I love that little brown and white one! Probably just because she's different.


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## Daffy (Sep 5, 2006)

Well, we've reached day 10 and they are alllooking really good. The weather hasn't been so good so I'lltake some new pics when it brightens a bit. I've a questionabout the kits beginning to go onto solids. I read somewherethat young rabbits should not be given anything green until they are abit older, and then only small quantities. These wee kitswill have access to grass as soon as they are mobile and i'm wonderingwhether we should move them &amp; mum into the house so that wecontrol whats available for them to eat. Your advice would beappreciated


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## aurora369 (Sep 6, 2006)

I've always provided the babies with what the mom is eating.

Keep a close eye out for runny poo after you give anything new. 

I would always make sure to wait a day or two after feeding a new food to watch for any signs of upset tummies.

Of three litters raised this way, I've yet to have a problem.

I'm sure I've also see other members who's babies have had access tograss as soon as they could wander out of the nest box, and they had noill effects either.

--Dawn


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## Daffy (Sep 6, 2006)

*Redneckrabbits wrote:*


> They are very cute(the parents) but look on the large size.Any ideas what they weigh? Just curious.
> 
> 
> 
> Pam




I couldn't get them to co-operate with the scales but schumi was inbeing neutered to day and the vet weighed him in at 2.9kg.Roxy is bigger than him so I would estimate 3.2kg. Does thatgive a better indication of what mix they are?


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## NZminilops (Sep 6, 2006)

They are lovely little bubs! That white onelooks really skinny, I hope he/she manages to get more milk from thedoe. We don't have lionheads here so to me it's quite a funny lookingbreed.

My kits ate grass from about 3 weeks old, and before that they nibbledhay and rolled oats every now and then. They all had a day or so wherethey'd have messy bottoms but I would clean them a few times a day andit would go away by itself. Make sure they have access to water, butnot a big enough dish so that they could fall in. Something small likethe lid of a jar works well or an icecube tray.

Good luck and keep us posted with pics and news :bunnydance:


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## Daffy (Sep 6, 2006)

Thanks for the replies, I'm hoping that we willmanage the moving onto solids without any problems. I hadSchumi at the vet today to be neutered( currently lazing about theliving room recuperating ) and spoke with them aboutterramycin. They won't prescribe it to give as a preventativemearsure but will if problems occur. All kits have their eyesopen now and the wee white one is looking sturdier now Oneis already making forays out of the nest . I've some day 11pics






















we had hoped to photograph all 6 but mum decided that enough attention had gone to the kits and it was her turn


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## Haley (Sep 6, 2006)

What beautiful little babies you have!

Love the pics. Looks like they are all doing nicely. Good Work!


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## JadeIcing (Sep 7, 2006)

*Daffy wrote: *


>


I WANT THIS ONE!


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## missyscove (Sep 7, 2006)

I love the face on that second one! Any chance of getting that one to me?


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## Daffy (Sep 8, 2006)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> >
> 
> 
> I WANT THIS ONE!


ah, this one is going to be ahandful :bunnydance: first one to go exploring and alwaystrying to escape when you pick him/her up. Takes after his mum


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## Daffy (Sep 8, 2006)

*missyscove wrote:*


> I love the face on that second one! Any chance ofgetting that one to me?




yes, he's lovely. Like to be stroked on his head too. Looking to be a really cuddly bun


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## JadeIcing (Sep 8, 2006)

*Daffy wrote:*


> *JadeIcing wrote:*
> 
> 
> > > I WANT THIS ONE!
> ...


This makes sense. I always getpicthe daredevils.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 28, 2006)

Was wondering how my baby is doing.


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