# Okay, color gurus, what color would you call this?



## wendymac (Jan 14, 2013)

When they were smaller, I called them opals. She has the opal triangle at the base of her neck, on her legs, around her nose and eyes, and ear lacing. Now, not so much. The coloring is like an opal with silver ticking. So that would make them opal chins. LOL


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## woahlookitsme (Jan 14, 2013)

The intermediate band is still a tan color isn't it? Or at least thats what I see. Could they just be really poor opals? 

What are the parents colors of these babies?


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## wendymac (Jan 14, 2013)

Mom is my blue chin (by a smutty cream and lilac chin), dad was opal (by 2 blue steels-gt'd). Yes, tan intermediate ring with white tips. I might hang on to the this one just to see how she molts out...the rest are heading to the local livestock auction.


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## Nancy McClelland (Jan 14, 2013)

Looks somewhere between a Chin and Opal, but not one or the other.


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## wendymac (Jan 14, 2013)

Exactly! That's why I've been calling her my opal chin. LOL It's a shame, too, because she's built really nicely (at 9 weeks). I'm trying to remember, but I think my James buck (same sire, different mother) was the same way...and now he doesn't have white tips at almost 8 months old. I'll give her a few months and then see what happens. Mainly because it has me baffled. lol


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## woahlookitsme (Jan 14, 2013)

you could always take her to a show and if she gets DQ'd for unrecognized color then ask what they think it is LOL 

Or you could just go and ask them


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Jan 14, 2013)

I don't see defined ticking in the fur photo, just an odd coat in the overall photo. They're probably opals.

Was this the same mom that threw another odd opal/chin a few months ago? I seem to remember this happening before.


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## bunnychild (Jan 14, 2013)

Blue silver tipped steel is what I would say


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## kmaben (Jan 14, 2013)

I'm gonna go with Grey. Yup. Definitely gray. :nod


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## KittyKatMe (Jan 14, 2013)

Yep I agree it's blue silver tipped steel


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## BinkyBunny (Jan 15, 2013)

OBVIOUSLY it's Opa-chin


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## woahlookitsme (Jan 15, 2013)

I dont think steel because they dont have bands, only ticking. You can see bands on the hairshafts when the fur is blown.


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## wendymac (Jan 15, 2013)

And blue steel wouldn't have brown, would it? No, Julie, this isn't the same mother. This mother is her daughter, though. LOL The one that had the weird color sort of like this is now completely opal. But I can't very easily sell her and tell them, "Well, she should shed out and be completely opal."


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## KittyKatMe (Jan 15, 2013)

Wait... Why can't there be an opal chin?!?


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## wendymac (Jan 15, 2013)

The only recognized chinchilla colors are black, blue, lilac, chocolate, sable, and smoke pearl.


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## KittyKatMe (Jan 15, 2013)

It may not be recognized... But it could still exist! Like tort otters.


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## wendymac (Jan 15, 2013)

Well, it shouldn't exist! LOL Anything that's not recognized isn't going to do anything to improve the breed.


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## KittyKatMe (Jan 15, 2013)

Yes that's true... But it still doesn't mean that it doesn't exist lol. Kind of like some who are way thrown off type - it's just like that with color this time.


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Jan 15, 2013)

The difference between opal and chin is on the C loci. Opal is completely dominant, and chin is a recessive. So only one of those genes can be expressed.

Wendy, I hate to make this suggestion, but I would probably cull rabbits related to these weird coats. If they molt out to be "normal" in the end, that's all well and good for showing, but it doesn't really strengthen your line. You'll be dealing with these uncertainties for generations into the future. Having to "dump" a portion of your foundation stock would stink (big time), BUT having to trash a whole line down the road would be even more frustrating.

I know agouti colors sometimes develop in odd ways, but this is particularly strange and seems to take a long time to molt out! So just "dealing with it" means keeping kits for quite awhile before being able to offer them as show/brood. Color isn't the biggest concern in the world, but when something funky pops up it's worth watching. And when the same funky pops up a generation later, it's time to consider making a change in the program (in my opinion, anyway). :-/


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## wendymac (Jan 16, 2013)

I'm already a step ahead of you.  The father is long gone, and he was the sire of all these screwy coats. I've also sold all the babies (except 2 of the smoke pearl chins, because she wants to hang on to them a bit longer). I know with my other one that was like this, Paul Kyle said it was normal, and not to worry about it. He actually won his 6/8 buck class at the Farm Show. But I don't like it, so it's leaving. I wouldn't say it takes a long time to molt out...the kits are only 9 weeks old and I usually don't even think about selling anything until they're at least 14 weeks. You know how you see a litter as they're developing, and there are some that catch your eye right away? And you think, "Hmmm...I really like it."? Well, that didn't happen with those ones. None of them. They're "okay", but I'm not keeping "okay".

Boo, Frostie, Adeline, and Nora are all getting bred soon...for potential show stock for Convention. Plus Kitty has 4 Californians she'll be breeding. That's going to be a LOT of babies, not even counting the ones for her meat pen entries for Fair. lol This will be my last litter out of Adeline, and then she's going to her new home. Kitty said about selling Frostie, so she will probably leave, too. My goal, depending on how Charlie's babies look as 6/8, is to sell off just about everything...re-starting with Charlie offspring.


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Jan 16, 2013)

I think that's a good plan! I have heard of opal developing similarly to this before. Blues too, actually. So I suppose if someone really feels like sitting on it, it's none of my business. But in my opinion, it makes so much more sense to just breed for correct coats! You will never regret culling a complication, but there is often a point where you regret waiting out the odd ones.

Like five generations from now when the trait is solidified into the line and a rabbit ends up with KILLER type and a horrible coat. Yep. That'd be a blast. LOL!


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## wendymac (Jan 16, 2013)

LOL! I'd just shoot myself and get it over with! LOL Fortunately I have only seen 1 French Lop, ever, DQ'd for color. And that was Paul. LOL Ashley had a GORGEOUS junior doe. None of us knew what to call it (we were talking before Paul came over). Anyway, he looked at them...inspected it, took it for other opinions, and came back and asked her what color it was. She said, "Mystery!". LOL This was back when he was saying that Frostie was actually a broken. He said, "That one is definitely DQ'd, unrecognized color." Then he looked at Frostie, grinned at me, and said, "We'll let that one go as a solid, but..." and gave me his "it looks broken" spiel. lol

I was told that most of the opals start out funky, then molt out. And I was also told that the diluted colors tend to mature slower than their darker counter parts. Not sure if that's true or not, but I do know that Boo hit the "uglies" long after her siblings did.


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## Nancy McClelland (Jan 16, 2013)

:yeahthat:Both of our chins have a lot of black highlites which I didn't see anywhere--still love the color.


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## fuzz16 (Jan 16, 2013)

Murphys fur is like that...Kama called it gold tipped blue steel..but not sure


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## wendymac (Jan 16, 2013)

Black highlights means it's a black chin. This doe, because she's actually opal, is blue based. Even without the tan markings, she'll have lighter bands (because of the blue) with the silvering. My Max does is a black chin, and very dark. Boo is a blue chin, and has a darker blue then white tips...so no dark bands.


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## bunnychild (Jan 16, 2013)

Would it be to much to ask if you have a picture of this screwy father. I'm just curious of his color.


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## wendymac (Jan 17, 2013)

He was just an opal...no funky colors or anything. I'll see if I can find a picture. When my internet was down for a week I transferred all my pictures from my HD onto CDs (over 30 of them. lol).


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## wendymac (Jan 17, 2013)

Here's the father, Sonny. The broken opal is his full sister, Cher.


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## woahlookitsme (Jan 17, 2013)

How was his ring definition?


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## bunnychild (Jan 17, 2013)

Does the sister produce weird babies?


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## wendymac (Jan 17, 2013)

I can't remember, honestly...and his sister NEVER had a litter. I could never get her bred. :-( She's the one that broke her back a month ago. She was the friendliest, most laid back bunny ever.


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