# Prices?



## Bo B Bunny (May 16, 2009)

Anyone else incur a price increase for Oxbow? I got the 50 pound bag for $35 last time and this time I was not told and went to buy it..... $60!!! I told them to keep it. I didn't appreciate that sort of price increase in 3 or 4mos.


----------



## DeniseJP (May 16, 2009)

Youch! I am not familiar with Oxbow brand feed but is there something special about it? Is there some way to research the price elsewhere?

I know specialty rabbit feeds like Show Hutch Deluxe were expensive here last summer - I use Blue Seal Bunny 16 and Axel's former owner said he had better muscling at the show last week... I add race horse oats and greens to the bunnies' diet and they get free choice hay.

My horse feed costs were up drastically last year...hoping things level out this year - not that my "girls" are thin... the vet lectured me on the pudge on Neffie and Freedom some months ago...:whistling Neffie has dropped weight but Freedom is like me - I should have Benn run us both behind the four wheeler...

Denise

Denise


----------



## SOOOSKA (May 16, 2009)

I pay $70+ for a 50 pound bag of Oxbow pellets. But thats stiil cheaper than buying 10 pounds at over $20. I honestly think I get more in the 50 pound bag than in 5 -10 pound bags.

Susan


----------



## DazyDaizee (May 16, 2009)

I get Oxbow wholesale.. the cost is around $32 for a 50lb bag. Many retailers mark up 100%, which would make sense if you're now paying $60.. perhaps they were accidently charging you cost price.. especially if it was a special order? They certainly weren't making any money off of it at $35 a bag.

I always consider about $1/pound a decent price for pet food.


----------



## Bo B Bunny (May 17, 2009)

Yeah, that's what I thought, but someone else on here got it for the same price. Pet Supply Plus was giving a good deal - now they've gotten ridiculous. I know it's cheaper that way but it made me angry they couldn't have raised the price in a slower way! 

Horse feed! omg we pay about $15 a bag.... we feed Nutrena Safe Choice Pellets. I have backed off their feed a bit and they look great but SIL sneaks in an feeds them in the mornings sometimes and grains them..... I only hay in the morning unless it's winter - then we grain also.


----------



## PepnFluff (May 17, 2009)

I don't buy oxbow but there seems to be a general price hike everywhere. I buy 25kg bags so like 50lb and I went back in the week to find it had gone up to $29 Used to be $20. Same for hay to $8 a bale now used to be $3-4.


----------



## JadeIcing (May 17, 2009)

I think there is a price increase EVERY where. :cry2


----------



## Bo B Bunny (May 17, 2009)

I can't imagine a $25 price increase in that short of time.... it nearly doubled!

Plus the fact the smaller bags only went up $1 and that is only about 10% higher.


----------



## undergunfire (May 17, 2009)

I bought Oxbow from Foster and Smith the last time. It was $45 for 40lbs with shipping...but only because I had a "first customer coupon". How much is it to order directly from Oxbow now?

Ryan and I were going to stop by the rabbit store in Scottsdale on our way home from San Diego...but a 50lbs bag cost $60+tax and I thought that was just a bit too much.

The prices of pet food is just nuts. It costs me $16 for a 6.6lbs bag of Innova Evo dog food for Sammy. The cat's had to switch off their favorite food because it was $20 for 6.6lbs and they would finish that bag off (only get 1/2 cup each a day) in 3 weeks.


----------



## Baby Juliet (May 17, 2009)

It's not the cost of pet food but the pet owners. People one or two rabbits relying on what others post on the web and then reposting.

No one is going to convince me that spending $60 for designer pellets is better for the rabbits than spending $15 for Purina and the rest on horse hay and veges. 

Seems a bit silly to me to feed expensive timothy based pellets when you can just feed cheap timothy hay that horses eat.


----------



## Baby Juliet (May 17, 2009)

I tried to edit my post but spent over .2 hours rewriting. Got a error message. So I'm pissed and am not going to rewrite.:grumpy:


----------



## undergunfire (May 17, 2009)

In my opinion, feeding the best feed I can afford will be better for my pet in the long run. I chose to feed a high quality pellet to my rabbits because they don't enjoy veggies. I just feed any timothy hay I can find that isn't dusty.

I definitely notice a different in feeding a high quality diet to my pet versus a low quality.


----------



## Bo B Bunny (May 17, 2009)

I wouldn't use Purina rabbit food for anything! I don't consider Oxbow a designer feed but a quality one. There's a huge difference in their products compared to others. My rabbits won't even eat some brands of hay!


----------



## OakRidgeRabbits (May 17, 2009)

I feed Purina, which is a VERY quality pellet and my rabbits are doing great on it. And I'm ordering my hay online from a farm in PA.

A 50 lb. bag of feed and a 25 lb. bale of hay doesn't even cost what you're paying for ONE bag of pellets! That's ridiculous...no one can convince me that it's worth it. lol


----------



## Baby Juliet (May 17, 2009)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> In my opinion, feeding the best feed I can afford will be better for my pet in the long run. I chose to feed a high quality pellet to my rabbits because they don't enjoy veggies. I just feed any timothy hay I can find that isn't dusty.
> 
> I definitely notice a different in feeding a high quality diet to my pet versus a low quality.



Please give more details on the differences. I don't mean if the rabbits likes one better than the other but things like fur, muscle and general condition.


----------



## Baby Juliet (May 17, 2009)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> I wouldn't use Purina rabbit food for anything! I don't consider Oxbow a designer feed but a quality one. There's a huge difference in their products compared to others. My rabbits won't even eat some brands of hay!


That's because they know they've got you trained. It's kind a like saying my children will only eat steak and lobster. Any rabbit will eat anything if hungry. The reason some countries tried to reduce their wild rabbit population IS rabbits will live and multiply as long as there is vegetation.


----------



## undergunfire (May 17, 2009)

*Baby Juliet wrote: *


> *undergunfire wrote: *
> 
> 
> > In my opinion, feeding the best feed I can afford will be better for my pet in the long run. I chose to feed a high quality pellet to my rabbits because they don't enjoy veggies. I just feed any timothy hay I can find that isn't dusty.
> ...



ANYONE can give you details on the differences....between any animal, not just rabbits.

When my rabbits were fed Starr brand (which is what all the breeders around here use for some reason) my rabbits coats became brittle, they shed a TON, Morgan's eating pattern went wonky, their appearances and their personalities went "bland". Their poop was smaller and drier. On Oxbow their persoanlities shine, their coats are lovely, their poop is moist/the right color, and they gobble up thier pellets like they should. I will never feed anything other than Oxbow, unless it was Sweet Meadow's.

I also think Oxbow is such quality because they actually have the rabbit's health in mind. They make a Timothy pellet available to adult rabbits...which most feed companies only have alfalfa based pellets available. People will say that it doesn't matter what age you're rabbits are...they can have alfalfa.....but I beg to differ, the difference of an adult rabbit on timothy based pellets compaired to alfalfa based is amazing.


My dog came to me being fed Pedigree dog food...his poop was sooo nasty and his breath stunk just as horrid as his poop. A quick change over to Eagle Pack Holistics was such an amazing difference. He gained weight and is now at a very healthy weight for his breed and figure. His poop is not stinky in the least bit, it is firm and the right color. His breath is fresh. Not to mention he only poops 2 times a day now, compaired to the 4 times PLUS a day on a low quality food. He is now on Innova Evo and there is even a noticable difference between him being on Eagle Pack to Innova because Innova is a higher quality food.



Even for humans...the higher quality/organic ingredients the better. Sometimes a higher quality diet doesn't always work for animals...but in the long run....I personally think it will lead to a healthier life. I'd rather fork out the cash right now for high quality diets then fork out the money vet bills in the future.

Also...just because it is high quality doesn't mean it has to cost more. Take Eagle Pack dog food for example....it rates a 4 on the high quality dog food list, where as Evo rates the highest at a 1.....but yet Eagle Pack costs more than Innova.

But....unfortunely in the rabbit world...higher quality pellets cost more for some reason. Timothy pellets also cost more in general. If more companies would start making Timothy based pellets, then more options would be available and we might not have to pay so much for timothy based pellets.


----------



## werecatrising (May 17, 2009)

I feed purina and my rabbits do fine on it. All have good coats, body condition, etc. I do feed very limited pellets. Mostly high quality hay and greens.


----------



## mouse_chalk (May 17, 2009)

Ouch, that's quite a big price increase!! Strange that it would go up so much all at once... 


I feed Oxbow too. It's expensive for us because it's not made over here and it's shipped over. We get it at about Â£45 for a 50lb/22kg bag, which in $US is $68. It lasts us about 3 months though so it's not too bad. We don't like the other foods that are available here- we find that the fibre content isn't high enough and the buns tend to get a lot of mushy poos on them, although at a push I would use Science Selective if we didn't get Oxbow.

Like others, I find that on the Oxbow they have such healthy, shiny and soft coats, very healthy poos, and they're very active. Mind you, they have a small amount of pellets, unlimited quality hay and a large variety of vegetables. 

I believe in feeding the bunnies like we feed ourselves- we buy the best quality that we can afford. I think they do prefer it as well


----------



## DazyDaizee (May 17, 2009)

I agree with undergunfire on many points. First being the alfalfa based pellets vs timothy. After feeding several different brands of cheap rabbit food from walmart for years (most alfalfa based) my rabbit had 3 surgeries to remove bladder stones. The other two rabbits had no problems, but the diet was clearly the cause as once she was switched to Oxbow she had no future problems.

I've seen the difference in dogs and cats when fed crappy food (beneful, pedigree, purina, science diet, ect) All the big names.. all packed with ground yellow corn. Sorry.. I would not base my diet on corn and I see no reason to feed my pets mainly corn, either. One of my dogs was eating Hill's prescription diet W/D. First ingredients: ground whole grain corn, powdered cellulose 17.1%, chicken by product meal. How is that a healthy diet for a dog. I'd like to point out that Chicken by product meal is the ONLY meat source in the food. The rest of the ingredients are more crap and vitamins. This suggests that a human could survive off of powdered cellulose, corn, and chicken scraps so long as they take their multivitamin daily. Surviving and thriving are two different things.

Even the biggest brands are not the best, or healthy at all, in many cases. It's all about marketing and advertisement. 

I looked at the several varieties of Purina rabbit foods.. all are alfalfa based. I would prefer to feed my rabbit timothy, grass hays, and veggies alone before feeding an alfalfa based food.. so in my opinion Purina is not a food I'd even CONSIDER regardless of price. And the fact that they make crappy dog and cat food.. they have become an untrustworthy company in my opinion.


----------



## DazyDaizee (May 17, 2009)

Baby Juliet wrote:
Any rabbit will eat anything if hungry.Â  The reason some countries tried to reduce their wild rabbit population IS rabbits will live and multiply as long as there is vegetation.[/quote]

I have to disagree with this to a point. I don't believe a rabbit will starve itself to death, but I do believe a rabbit will turn down bad food and go into GI stasis. I also believe that when my rabbit eats every variety of hay under the sun but won't touch a certain brand that there's something wrong. There's a reason she doesn't want to eat it. Not all rabbits handle change well, and it might be hard to switch even to a higher quality diet, but there are serious health risks with switching drastically if your rabbit won't eat the new food.


----------



## Baby Juliet (May 17, 2009)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> ANYONE can give you details on the differences....between any animal, not just rabbits.
> 
> When my rabbits were fed Starr brand (which is what all the breeders around here use for some reason) my rabbits coats became brittle, they shed a TON, Morgan's eating pattern went wonky, their appearances and their personalities went "bland". Their poop was smaller and drier. On Oxbow their persoanlities shine, their coats are lovely, their poop is moist/the right color, and they gobble up thier pellets like they should. I will never feed anything other than Oxbow, unless it was Sweet Meadow's.
> I also think Oxbow is such quality because they actually have the rabbit's health in mind. They make a Timothy pellet available to adult rabbits...which most feed companies only have alfalfa based pellets available. People will say that it doesn't matter what age you're rabbits are...they can have alfalfa.....but I beg to differ, the difference of an adult rabbit on timothy based pellets compaired to alfalfa based is amazing.
> ...



Well I have no experience with Star but have used different cheap pellets including the stuff from Walmart. My rabbits always go crazy for pellets that I think there must be something addictive in them. Anyway I don't have the problems you have probably because they get tons of veges as well as grazing on grass. At least 2 bushels of veges and 25 poundsof pellets a week plus horse hay. They can eat 2 or 3 times more veges if I let them. Only a dozen adults. I swear the volume of poop is more than the volume of food they eat.

My guess is if they don't have access to other foods than you would want timothy pellets. Much problem with rabbits is the result of being made house pets. People traded problems with parasites for stomach problems when they stuck rabbits indoors.


----------



## undergunfire (May 17, 2009)

*Baby Juliet wrote:*


> Much problem with rabbits is the result of being made house pets. People traded problems with parasites for stomach problems when they stuck rabbits indoors.


Rabbits always have had stomach issues...much like horses do. Regardless if a rabbit is left outside or inside...they can still have the same health issues.

Most rabbits are safer indoors, as well. Mine would have been dead ages ago if they were left outside.


----------



## Bo B Bunny (May 17, 2009)

*Baby Juliet wrote: *


> *Bo B Bunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't use Purina rabbit food for anything! I don't consider Oxbow a designer feed but a quality one. There's a huge difference in their products compared to others. My rabbits won't even eat some brands of hay!
> ...



NO ONE HAS ME TRAINED.... you don't even know me. I feed better feed for my horses and other animals as well. I have talked to vets, and nutritionalist. All from PURDUE which is one of the top (if not the top) Vet schools in the nation.

I happen to know SEVERAL people who have fed Purina bunny feed and had them die..... sorry.... you won't convince me they are any good at all. 

Would you feed your child a second rate, unknown date, feed with things in it they don't need like fats or something..... 

You have drawn the concern of several people with this attitude. Try to curb it and not offend people by calling us "trained" and such.


----------



## Baby Juliet (May 17, 2009)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> *Baby Juliet wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *Bo B Bunny wrote: *
> ...




Boy you guys are really sensitive. Many pet parents admit to being trained slaves to their pets.

BTW it's not a personal attack. I just have opinions opposit yours. You just think I'm targeting you. I don't think adults here should support children to go against their parents right or wrong. Anything said negative about some one parent is not a good idea. So when people tell the child to go against her parent it's bad even if it's about spaying.



PS I might be answering the wrong thread.


----------



## Bo B Bunny (May 17, 2009)

LOL! yes, you were on another thread also.

Ok, when you say "trained" do you mean by media/other people or by our pets? I totally misread that if you meant the animals. LOL! Actually if you mean the pets, Bo nearly DIED when I switched him to Oxbow LOL! He hated it and made sure I knew by thumping regularly in defiance.

The horses, they don't care. If it's food, they eat it! I just want the best benefit from the feed..... and it's only a couple of dollars higher a week, but yes, we would go back to sweet feed if we were strapped too much.


----------



## DazyDaizee (May 17, 2009)

This is totally off topic, but I believe that thinking for yourself is part of being an individual. As humans we can actually have a say in how our lives go. I don't suggest people challenge their parents, but to be informed and have your own ideas is not encouraging disobedience. 
As a teenager I did many things my parents did not agree with at the time. Not typical teen rebellion, but taking responsibility for my pets, spending my money on my animals, getting a job.. many things my mother, in particular, didn't think were good ideas. She would always come around and see my side of things. And I am glad I never did exactly as she instructed throughout my life, or I would not be happy. Because I am not her. I have different goals, different motivations, different outlooks. We are not the same person and I feel that challenging and educating yourself leads to growth. Whether you're challenge authority/parents' ideals or not. As a maturing person you are going to have these power struggles with your parents. Encouraging someone to do something positive that supports their own beliefs is far from wrong in my opinion. 

This is not indicated by the situation here, but I think it should be pointed out that children can be mistreated by their parents and shouldn't be told that their parents are ALWAYS right about EVERYTHING and NOTHING is to be questioned.


----------



## Mrs. PBJ (May 17, 2009)

This is how I tell the difference of good feed.







Storm taken a few days ago. May 13, 2009






Storm the day he came home. Jan 7, 2009

Its not the price of the feed its the ingredients. Be that any animal. Or human. You can buy a 5 buck food and it be the best if it has good quality ingredients. 

By the way storm was on wal mart feed and wal mart hay. When I bought him home.

He is now on zupreem timothy based pellets and ox bow hay and a varied diet of vegy daily.


----------



## Bo B Bunny (May 17, 2009)

WOW! that's awesome! He looks so different!


----------



## Mrs. PBJ (May 17, 2009)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> WOW! that's awesome! He looks so different!




I know his fur was so naughsty and bridal then now its like touching a cloud. And boy did he molt I am hoping its not that bad next year.


Yes Ox bow hay did go up for me but not that much but I get everything at cost from kieth


----------



## Evey (May 17, 2009)

Bo, this just happened to me last week! I really thought the young cashier did something wrong by almost charging me double the price! I feel better now knowing that it's not just me (I don't feel better about the price though ). I think I will contact Oxbow to politely ask why there was an increase. 

Kathy


----------



## Bo B Bunny (May 17, 2009)

WOW Thanks for posting. Now, I feel a bit better myself. During the horrible gas prices last year we didn't even get that kind of jump on pricing!


----------



## Evey (May 17, 2009)

Yeah, I really want to continue buying Oxbow, but this is going to be rough. I just emailed their customer service so I'm sure I will receive a quick response sometime tomorrow!


----------



## Boz (May 17, 2009)

I noticed that too!
I went to get a 10 lbs bag and it was 13.99!
I swear last time it was 11.99.


----------



## Korr_and_Sophie (May 18, 2009)

I wish I could get 10 pound of Oxbow for $14. It more like $21 for that bag, and that is the cheaper price, I have seen it at $30 for 10 pounds. I think a 50 pound bag is about $80-90. 
If the price goes up much (I am not paying more than $25 for 10 pounds), I will have to consider switching to a different food. 

I will pay more for a higher quality food. I believe that there is a difference between something a cheap food and a high quality food. I save money at the vet and have a healthier pet by feeding high quality foods. I can basically consider anything that is about $1.50-$2 per pound to be a decent price if it is a high quality food. Finding the best food at the best price is better than finding a poor food and a cheap price. Money isn't everything.


----------



## Bo B Bunny (May 18, 2009)

Yeah, I guess I'm going to go back over there and talk to them. Thing is, this bag is dated for August that they have. I don't know that I would use it in that amount of time for sure. I really want a fresh bag. I'm sure they won't like that tho.


----------



## Luv-bunniz (May 18, 2009)

Thats crazy!
We buy just under 45lbs for $13, and thats just as good, if not better, then Oxbow!

IMO Oxbox is SO over priced and over rated .


----------



## SnowyShiloh (May 18, 2009)

We pay $15 for a 5 pound bag of Zupreem Nature's Promise timothy pellets  My three go through 2-3 bags a month. You can't get Oxbow up here. For a while I was ordering it through Busy Bunny, but shipping prices went wayyyy up so I had to stop. I'm envious of a 50 pound bag for $60! I'm not trying to minimize how annoying the price increase is for anyone, it's just interesting how prices differ depending on where you are. 

I could see how it would be hard to feed $3 per pound pellets if I had 50 rabbits. Because I only have the three bunnies, I couldn't in good conscience feed them a low quality food. They also get unlimited timothy hay ($42 for a 50 pound bale) and big daily salads.


----------



## hartleybun (May 18, 2009)

out of interest- ok im waiting for hubby to go out so i can dust his workstation -i googled oxbow for the UK. it gave me a price of Â£77.76 for a 50lbbag of oxbow western timothy hay. oxbow have only one distributor in the UK according to their website. the distributor carries other oxbow products which seem to be a tad expensive. are we talking high end gourmet bunny food here? 

i feed my little gastronauts science selective pellets - Â£6.99 for 3kg bag plus a selection of hay and veggies.


----------



## BethM (May 18, 2009)

I also feed Oxbow, and would never go back to a "cheap" feed. (I would use a low-priced feed, if it was also of good quality.) 

I used to feed Kaytee Timothy Complete. I know some people use this, and find it acceptable. It's even sometimes recommended to people by my HRS chapter. It's not expensive, and easily available. I believe it is better than some other Kaytee feeds.

However, when I was feeding the Kaytee, I was only feeding two times a week, because Nick and Amelia would get TONS of squishy stinky cecals all over the place. Like clockwork, the morning after a pellet feeding, I had to clean that up. I didn't realize it at the time, but their coats were also quite coarse, and the bunnies were very sluggish.

After I switched to Oxbow, the cecal problem just went away. I feed pellets daily now, with no dropped cecals. Both bunnies are more active, and they both grew in beautiful soft coats.
They also get large salads of mixed veggies, and unlimited hay daily. They are not on an all-pellet diet.

Also. My little apartment doesn't allow me to buy the large bags of feed, as there's nowhere to store it, so I have been paying even higher prices for the small bags. But to me, the health of my rabbits speaks for itself. They are much healthier now. 

I try not to eat food made with low-quality ingredients, and I don't want to feed my rabbits low-quality pellets.


----------



## mouse_chalk (May 18, 2009)

*hartleybun wrote: *


> out of interest- ok im waiting for hubby to go out so i can dust his workstation -i googled oxbow for the UK. it gave me a price of Â£77.76 for a 50lbbag of oxbow western timothy hay. oxbow have only one distributor in the UK according to their website. the distributor carries other oxbow products which seem to be a tad expensive. are we talking high end gourmet bunny food here?
> 
> i feed my little gastronauts science selective pellets - Â£6.99 for 3kg bag plus a selection of hay and veggies.



I had to giggle at the 'gastronaut' comment! :biggrin2:



We recently changed our suppliers of Oxbow- we used to get it from here:

http://www.sphsupplies.co.uk/produc...d=437&osCsid=c0f08f1a648bc43dad9e06cbdac7062d


but we got 2 bags that were full of dust and not fresh, so we changed our suppliers to the actual UK distributors- where everyone else buys their stock from. It's cheaper, fresher and much faster delivery and we get it straight from the pallets that have been shipped in from the US:

http://www.petlifeonline.co.uk/Store/Small-Animals/Feed/Oxbow-Bunny-Basics$1T

They don't actually list the 22.5kg bag on their site but when we called them they were happy to sell it to us (they normally only get sales from rescues etc and were quite surprised at a little household wanting it for their 5 rabbits LOL!)

In my opinion, it's not the best of the best, be-all and end-all food, but I find that it's much better quality than food over here, fibre-wise. I've not managed to find anything in the UK that has higher than I think 18% fibre? This is 25-29%. And I know that fibre isn't the only important thing in their diets but it's proved to be the deciding factor between mushy poops and nice healthy ones. When Dotty came to us she was eating Excel pellets and her fur was all wiry and bristly all over her back, and same with Barney and Snowy. Now they are all as soft as clouds!

I guess different food works for different bunnies though. We might have tried the Science Selective, but we thought that we might as well just go for the best we could afford.




As for the Oxbow hay, I do really love it, but it is way expensive for us over here. I could buy a 4kg bag for Â£29 of the Western Timothy hay, or I could buy a 3kg bag of meadow mix from the local supplier down the road that lasts me a week for Â£2. Easy maths! My bunnies love the meadow mix too. What we do is buy the odd bag of Oxbow Timothy Hay and Orchard Grass and mix them into the local hay, to 'supplement' them. Bunnies get more variety and they love rooting around for the different bits.


----------



## Bo B Bunny (May 18, 2009)

You know, Bo had real problems when I was feeding him cheaper stuff as a baby. I forget about the whole cecal thing too - I've heard that before.

gastronauts was cute LOL!


----------



## hartleybun (May 18, 2009)

the gastronauts wont touch excel. i have tried them with it a couple of times but they hate it. i know it's sad but afteryet anotherday of the dish thrown out of the hutch i counted the pellets. not one was eaten:rollseyes i started them on science selective from the beginning as well as a selection of hay and their own lawn. both myself and their vet are very happy with whats coming out of each bunny their coats and skin are also in excellent condition. tbh im loath to try another brand as this diet suits these particular bunnies.

the shop i use is local and family run - they also have choc labs - and ive no problem with returning anything that isnt up to scratch.

i thought my family were fussy but the bunnies are gold medal standard:biggrin2:


----------



## Mrs. PBJ (May 18, 2009)

*SnowyShiloh wrote: *


> We pay $15 for a 5 pound bag of Zupreem Nature's Promise timothy pellets  My three go through 2-3 bags a month. You can't get Oxbow up here. For a while I was ordering it through Busy Bunny, but shipping prices went wayyyy up so I had to stop. I'm envious of a 50 pound bag for $60! I'm not trying to minimize how annoying the price increase is for anyone, it's just interesting how prices differ depending on where you are.
> 
> I could see how it would be hard to feed $3 per pound pellets if I had 50 rabbits. Because I only have the three bunnies, I couldn't in good conscience feed them a low quality food. They also get unlimited timothy hay ($42 for a 50 pound bale) and big daily salads.



Thats over priced for Zupreem there mark up is horrible. My friend that owns the shop sell his zupreem at 9.99 for a 5 pound and 11.99 for the bigger bag it must be ten pounds. 

He only ordersa few at a time so he pay more then the companys that order pallets of them witch mean there marking that up something horrible. If I could do one thing for every person that shops at big name stores I would say find a mom and pop store the mark up is so much less. 

I get the ten pound bag at 10 bucks that last storm forever well I bought a bag when he came home have not bought anotherone sense. So 5 months so far.

Which means kieths marks it up two buck which is about right. You have to take persentage and frieght and opening cost. And do some fancy numbers work to get about 2 buck mark up for bigger stores it should only be like 3.


----------



## Luv-bunniz (May 18, 2009)

*Baby Juliet wrote: *


> It's not the cost of pet food but the pet owners. People one or two rabbits relying on what others post on the web and then reposting.
> 
> No one is going to convince me that spending $60 for designer pellets is better for the rabbits than spending $15 for Purina and the rest on horse hay and veges.
> 
> Seems a bit silly to me to feed expensive timothy based pellets when you can just feed cheap timothy hay that horses eat.


I always look forward to your replies. Blunt and straight to the point. Please never change.


----------



## Luv-bunniz (May 18, 2009)

*DazyDaizee wrote: *


> This suggests that a human could survive off of powdered cellulose, corn, and chicken scraps so long as they take their multivitamin daily. Surviving and thriving are two different things.


Ehh...humans could thrive on vitamin supplements alone if they had sufficient calories.

Oxbow is mostly vitamin supplements, aswell.


Timothy Grass Meal, -- [By-product] Fiber
Soybean Hulls, -- [By-Product] Protein
Wheat Middlings, -- [By-Product] Fiber
Soybean Meal, -- [By-Product] Protein
Cane Molasses, -- Binder, fiber, protein
Salt, --
Limestone, --
Yeast Culture (Saccharomyces cerevisiae), - Supplement, the reason for great coat condition
Vitamin A Acetate, - Vitamin Supplement
Vitamin D3 Supplement, - Vitamin Supplement
Vitamin E Supplement (tocopherol), - Vitamin Supplement
Vitamin C Supplement (Ascorbic Acid), - Vitamin Supplement
Colloidal Silica, - How many of you that feed Oxbow acually know what this is? . 
Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Vitamin K), - Vitamin Supplement
Riboflavin, - E101/Vitamin b2 to some. Supplement 
Niacin Supplement, - NA (Nicotinic Acid)/b3 supplement 
Vitamin B12 Supplement, - Vitamin supplement
Pantothenic Acid, - b5 supplement
Biotin, - b7 (or Vitamin H) supplement
Thiamine, - b1 supplement
Choline Chloride, -
DLMethionine, - 
Pyrodoxine Hydrochloride, - or Pyridoxine Hydrochloride b6 supplement
Folic Acid, - Supplement
Sodium Selenite, - Chemical/C salt substitute 
Magnesium Sulfate, - aka Epsom Salt
Ferrous Sulfate, - Iron, tends to cause constipation
Cobalt Carbonate, - More salt substitute
Manganese Oxide, - 
Zinc Oxide, - Self explanatory
Zinc Sulfate, - Self explanatory
Copper Sulfate, - Yet another coat conditioner
Mineral Oil, - To boost oils amd fats
Calcium Iodate, - Self explanatory
Potassium Chloride - 

As for the Colloidal Silica, it is, straight from wiki because it can explain better then me (it took me an hour just to load wiki, a further half hour to load up this page, yet for the life of me I couldnt think of how to explain it :blushan: ) *Colloidal silicas* are suspensions of fine amorphous, nonporous, and typically spherical silica particles in a liquid phase.



Now, from the bag of Dodson&Horrell feed that I got for $13 (just under 45lbs)

Timothy Grass - Pure, no by products (50%)
Meadow Grass - Pure, no by products (30%)
Cane mollases - Pure, no by products, binder (10%)
Soybean - Again, pure, no by-products. Protein (<5%)
Rabbit vitamin supplement complete Â© (<4%)

Not packed full of coat conditioners, yet Casper's coat is very glossy, soft and fluffy (just how it should be!!)


----------



## BethM (May 18, 2009)

*Luv-bunniz wrote: *


> Ehh...humans could thrive on vitamin supplements alone if they had sufficient calories.
> 
> 
> Now, from the bag of Dodson&Horrell feed that I got for $13 (just under 45lbs)
> ...


As far as "thriving" on supplements alone... It has recently been shown that isolated vitamins and minerals react very differently in the body than vitamins and minerals that occur in whole foods. The human body does not recognize one isolated vitamin the same way it recognizes a group of vitamins put together a certain way in a food. Which is why, for example, enriched flour is not asgood for you as a food that naturally contains the things that are put into flour to "enrich" it. It's also why drinking that "Coke Plus" stuff is NOT a good way to get b vitamins, or whatever it is they put in there. Taking a beta carotene supplement is not as good as eating a carrot.



As far as the difference between Oxbow and Dodson and Horrell feed.... You do not list the items that compose the last item on the list, "Rabbit Vitamin Supplement."Many of the things you list out on theOxbow ARE vitamin supplements,butthey're listed individually, instead of just lumped together. You can't really compare the those, unless you can say exactly what vitamins are included in the "Rabbit Vitamin Supplement."


----------



## mouse_chalk (May 18, 2009)

*hartleybun wrote: *


> the gastronauts wont touch excel. i have tried them with it a couple of times but they hate it. i know it's sad but afteryet anotherday of the dish thrown out of the hutch i counted the pellets. not one was eaten:rollseyes i started them on science selective from the beginning as well as a selection of hay and their own lawn. both myself and their vet are very happy with whats coming out of each bunny their coats and skin are also in excellent condition. tbh im loath to try another brand as this diet suits these particular bunnies.
> 
> the shop i use is local and family run - they also have choc labs - and ive no problem with returning anything that isnt up to scratch.
> 
> i thought my family were fussy but the bunnies are gold medal standard:biggrin2:



Lol! I have thought about counting pellets many a time when somebunny has been sick and I want to monitor how much they're eatig. You're not alone! :biggrin2:


I have looked at Science Selective and it's a good food! We were considering trying that before we tried the Oxbow but given they were so bad on the Excel, we didn't want to try it, find that it wasn't a high enough fibre content and have to switch yet again. 



Generally speaking now;

I think that a lot of foods are a case of, if it's working for you, then great. Really, if people want to spend 10, 20, hey, even 50% of their income on food for their pets, why not? Our bunnies probably consume about half of our total food budget each week, in fresh veggies as well as the less-costly pellets and hay, and yes it's a lot, and of course not everyone can afford to do it. But we wouldn't change a thing. Could they survive on less veg? Yes, of course. Would they be healthy? Possibly. Would they be happy? No! They love their twice-daily salads and we love watching them eating so happily each mealtime.


----------



## hartleybun (May 18, 2009)

:yeahthat:totally agree with you. my bunnies are healthy and happy which is as it should be. they do cost us slightly less than the kids to keep......slightly less:biggrin2:

i also cant believe i admitted that i count food pellets to make sure the little gastronauts are eating:rollseyes......hope no one is reading thish34r2


----------



## SnowyShiloh (May 18, 2009)

*Mrs. PBJ wrote: *


> *SnowyShiloh wrote: *
> 
> 
> > We pay $15 for a 5 pound bag of Zupreem Nature's Promise timothy pellets  My three go through 2-3 bags a month. You can't get Oxbow up here. For a while I was ordering it through Busy Bunny, but shipping prices went wayyyy up so I had to stop. I'm envious of a 50 pound bag for $60! I'm not trying to minimize how annoying the price increase is for anyone, it's just interesting how prices differ depending on where you are.
> ...


I live in Fairbanks, Alaska and unfortunately, Petco is the ONLY pet store in this town. There are no mom and pop pet stores. Well, there was one, but it went under around the time Petco opened (they were dishonest and also cruel to the animals so my sympathy is limited). There are feed stores, but they don't sell Oxbow or Zupreem or anything. Closest pet store that sells my bunnies' food other than the Petco here in town is, oh, 330 miles away in Anchorage. Shipping food up here is crazy expensive, way worse than just sucking it up and buying pellets at Petco.


----------



## slavetoabunny (May 18, 2009)

I also believe that you should feed the best you can afford. People with large numbers of rabbits may not be able to feed what someone with one rabbit can, but their rabbits are still well-fed and cared for.


----------



## Bo B Bunny (May 18, 2009)

Yep. That's the thing.... right now it's tight so..... anyone have a good substitute for Oxbow Basic/T?


----------



## Evey (May 18, 2009)

I received a reply from Oxbow today. The representative said that there was, in fact, a price increase that started in March. However, he continued to state that if I was only paying around $35-$39 then I was getting a steal. He claims that the price increase was not really that significant.

Not the most straight forward answer :/ I will suck it up and continue to buy Oxbow though.

Kathy


----------



## mouse_chalk (May 18, 2009)

*Evey wrote: *


> I received a reply from Oxbow today. The representative said that there was, in fact, a price increase that started in March. However, he continued to state that if I was only paying around $35-$39 then I was getting a steal. He claims that the price increase was not really that significant.
> 
> Not the most straight forward answer :/ I will suck it up and continue to buy Oxbow though.
> 
> Kathy


It seems so crazy that you guys are now paying the same price that we're paying over here to have it shipped over! We only placed our order a couple of weeks ago as well... 

I wonder if it will soon affect us... Which will be a big increase!


----------



## slavetoabunny (May 18, 2009)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> Yep. That's the thing.... right now it's tight so..... anyone have a good substitute for Oxbow Basic/T?


Sorry I can't make a suggestion. My pellet cost with APD is around $2 a pound with shipping.


----------



## anneq (May 18, 2009)

I've been feeding all my buns SweetMeadow Farms Timothy/Alfalfa blend and my rabbits seem to really enjoy it.
I also supplement with a conditioner & Timothy hay I get locally.
I think $20+ for 50lbs.of pellet is pretty reasonable (yes, shipping prices are horrible).


----------



## Mrs. PBJ (May 18, 2009)

*SnowyShiloh wrote: *


> *Mrs. PBJ wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *SnowyShiloh wrote: *
> ...



Yeah kieth does not sell pets in his store he does not believe in it he does sell fish but kieth spends many hours a week over there to make sure there all healthy. 

He asked me if I thought rabbit where a good idea I gave him the 411 and told him I would not shop there anymore. He put the lid on that idea real quick instead he donates to shelters and upports there pets by aloowing a flyer board for only rescues and and such. 

He has a breeder board also.


----------



## TinysMom (May 18, 2009)

Wow - you guys make me so happy I don't get Oxbow...I go through 150-200 pounds per week - and I'm already broke as it is.

I'm currently using a mix of Dumor Rabbit Pellets, Manna Pro Select Series, and two types of Purina (green bag and blue bag). I may add in another brand in a couple of weeks just to have a better mix.

I know it sounds crazy but after the feed problems I've had - I am finding that the "several brand mixture" is doing really well with the rabbits and if one bag goes bad - I can catch it in time.

I pay between $12 and $15 per 50 pound bag....


----------



## BethM (May 18, 2009)

*mouse_chalk wrote:*


> Generally speaking now;
> 
> I think that a lot of foods are a case of, if it's working for you, then great. Really, if people want to spend 10, 20, hey, even 50% of their income on food for their pets, why not? Our bunnies probably consume about half of our total food budget each week, in fresh veggies as well as the less-costly pellets and hay, and yes it's a lot, and of course not everyone can afford to do it. But we wouldn't change a thing. Could they survive on less veg? Yes, of course. Would they be healthy? Possibly. Would they be happy? No! They love their twice-daily salads and we love watching them eating so happily each mealtime.



I Completely Agree!!!!!


The pellet I stopped using, Kaytee Timothy Complete, is not a terrible food. I have heard it recommended as a lower-cost feed that is acceptable, and is generally carried in the petstores, so it's easy to get. 
However, it didn't work for my bunnies, so I switched to something that works better for my bunnies. 
However, if someone's using that pellet, and their bunnies are healthy on it, that's fine.

My bunnies also love their veggies!


----------



## BethM (May 18, 2009)

*slavetoabunny wrote:*


> Sorry I can't make a suggestion. My pellet cost with APD is around $2 a pound with shipping.


Patti, how is the quality on the APD pellets? 
I have been considering switching to APD for awhile. I haven't had room to store larger amounts, so it wasn't cost effective for me. I'm still considering switching, I'll soon be able to store a larger bag. And if the Oxbow price is going up anyway, it might be time for me to make the jump.


----------



## Bo B Bunny (May 19, 2009)

Peg, doesn't dumor have a high level of alfalfa in it? I checked it out and saw that and decided against it.

Funny that we were ALL paying less and suddenly ALL got raised about 30% here in the states....


----------



## NorthernAutumn (May 19, 2009)

Honestly guys, I'm wondering how much it has to do with the economics of the situation.

Could be that some suppliers are enduring a drought, maybe others have been nailed by frost.
Still other farmers may be bankrupted by the current economic climate. The cost of fuel and packaging may have risen. Perhaps there's been a corporate take over...

If you can pinpoint the growers' location, you can figure out how the crops are doing.


----------



## TinysMom (May 19, 2009)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> Peg, doesn't dumor have a high level of alfalfa in it? I checked it out and saw that and decided against it.
> 
> Funny that we were ALL paying less and suddenly ALL got raised about 30% here in the states....



Bo - I honestly couldn't tell you - as I've only recently been able to get Dumor (TSC opened up here in town on 5/9 - I'd only used it once before that).

You have to remember though that I'm talking about a four way mixture of brands...and the reason I do it is because we've had feed issues before when we went with the two brands that were available to us at the time. 

I think there are a few different DuMor brands too from what I remember...I'll have to look at it and see.

The thing is- since I go through about 6 or 7 bags every 2 weeks - I can't afford $50 per bag....so I have to do what I can.

I don't believe there is any one perfect brand.....so I'm happy with what I'm doing - especially now that TSC is here in town and I can get more than just Purina and Wendlands (a brand made here in Texas).


----------



## slavetoabunny (May 19, 2009)

*BethM wrote: *


> *slavetoabunny wrote:*
> 
> 
> > Sorry I can't make a suggestion. My pellet cost with APD is around $2 a pound with shipping.
> ...


I have been feeding APD for over 5 years now and have always been happy with the quality. The bunnies are very healthy and happy with their pellets. I've considered a less expensive pellet, but APD has worked so well for me that I can't bring myself to change.


----------



## Luv-bunniz (May 19, 2009)

*BethM wrote: *


> As far as "thriving" on supplements alone... It has recently been shown that isolated vitamins and minerals react very differently in the body than vitamins and minerals that occur in whole foods. The human body does not recognize one isolated vitamin the same way it recognizes a group of vitamins put together a certain way in a food. Which is why, for example, enriched flour is not asgood for you as a food that naturally contains the things that are put into flour to "enrich" it. It's also why drinking that "Coke Plus" stuff is NOT a good way to get b vitamins, or whatever it is they put in there. Taking a beta carotene supplement is not as good as eating a carrot.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as the difference between Oxbow and Dodson and Horrell feed.... You do not list the items that compose the last item on the list, "Rabbit Vitamin Supplement."Many of the things you list out on theOxbow ARE vitamin supplements,butthey're listed individually, instead of just lumped together. You can't really compare the those, unless you can say exactly what vitamins are included in the "Rabbit Vitamin Supplement."


Yes, it was shown that isolated vits/minerals wern't as good as natural vitamins, but humans CAN thrive on them if they have sufficient calories/energy/fat. Thats what I was getting at. 

Rabbit Vitamin Supplement (B7, B2, B12, B4, E and A)
I do think its funny how times have changed. How pellets used to be for putting weight on a rabbit, not for primary nutrition. Casper gets "sufficient" nutrition from his diet without pellets, pellets are purely for his weight (he does alot of rabbit hopping and as he is still very young [about 1 year and 3 months] he is constantly darting around) and because he enjoys them, not nutrition.


----------



## Bo B Bunny (May 19, 2009)

Peg, I've used Dumor sheep feed, and horse feeds and they are actually really good. Senior horse feed is SO good it surprised me. We used it for the old mare Lexi first rode. She's still alive and 31 years old!!! 

Dumor does have 2 kinds that I know of. One is for young rabbits. I don't know, I will look more at them. I have a TSC about 5 min. from me! 

What is this APD?


----------



## mouse_chalk (May 19, 2009)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> What is this APD?



Patti will answer this one without even moving her fingers! 

It's American Pet Diner I believe:

http://www.americanpetdiner.com/

I think that's the site.... Their stuff looks good! Shame it's so far away from me...


----------



## BethM (May 19, 2009)

*mouse_chalk wrote: *


> *Bo B Bunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> > What is this APD?
> ...


That's it! 

I like that it has probiotics in it. 

I just checked their prices, and it looks like a 50lb bag, with shipping, will cost me about $1.46/lb, compared to $1.67/lb I'm paying for Oxbow. Will probably be switching as soon as I have a place to store it.

I already use their hay.


----------



## slavetoabunny (May 19, 2009)

I used to use APD hay until I discovered Kleenmama's. KM is less expensive and the quality is awesome. The have stellar customer service too.


----------



## PepnFluff (May 20, 2009)

Man I'm totally jealous of you all! I have 3 diffrent sorts of pellets available to me a rabbit mix, NRM and reliance. NRM the best onehas the highest fibre with max 17%  If you think thats bad I won't even tell you the reliance one:cry1:And after the customer service of Reliance trying to find out the ingrediants and finally finding out, I'm bout ready to leave them.


----------



## BethM (May 20, 2009)

*slavetoabunny wrote: *


> I used to use APD hay until I discovered Kleenmama's. KM is less expensive and the quality is awesome. The have stellar customer service too.


The rescue I work with sells the APD hay. It is more expensive, but it helps us raise money.

I was in the pet store yesterday to get Bene-Bac, and I re-checked the price we've been paying for Oxbow. $12.99 for 5 lbs!!!!! After tax, that's $2.80/lb. :shock: That's twice what I could get APD pellets for, including shipping! 

I will be ordering from them next week.


----------



## Bo B Bunny (May 20, 2009)

That's so bad isn't it? I was paying $8.99 I think for 5 lbs and now it's like $12.99.... 

I looked into APD and it was going to be about the same with shipping for me to get that.


----------



## Nonamebunni (May 20, 2009)

i think were still paying 8 something here for the probly 5Lb bag, and we also get a ticket with every 5 bought you get a free one


----------



## undergunfire (May 20, 2009)

APD looks pretty good, but with shipping for me for 50lbs it will be about $63 ($1.26 per lbs...still not bad). I forgot how much it costs to get a 50lbs bag sent to me through Oxbow...I'll have to find that out today.


----------



## OakRidgeRabbits (May 20, 2009)

I would definitely be interested in hearing what the issue is with alfalfa pellets that everyone wants to avoid them like the plague.

I have been raising rabbits on alfalfa pellets, fresh timothy hay, and a pinch of oats daily for years. I haven't had one rabbit go off feed or have any digestive complications. Not one. So I would never change the diet. As they say, don't fix what isn't broken!

On the other hand, many pet owners seem to be into the timothy pellets and green diets, and their rabbits consistently experience digestive problems.

Coincidence? Maybe. But I'm not convinced.

JMPO!


----------



## Bo B Bunny (May 20, 2009)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> APD looks pretty good, but with shipping for me for 50lbs it will be about $63 ($1.26 per lbs...still not bad). I forgot how much it costs to get a 50lbs bag sent to me through Oxbow...I'll have to find that out today.



Oxbow quit selling directly to the public awhile back. 

See, I can get it from PSP for $63 or less. HOWEVER, the bag they were going to sell me was dated for August.... if I am going to pay that much - I want a fresh bag.


----------



## wooly_queen (May 20, 2009)

Wowza! I use Manna Pro - Sho Formula. When I first moved to MI (5 years ago) it was about $9.50 and now it is about $20. It has more than doubled in 5 years, but that increase for Oxbow is insane!


----------



## Baby Juliet (May 20, 2009)

*OakRidgeRabbits wrote: *


> I would definitely be interested in hearing what the issue is with alfalfa pellets that everyone wants to avoid them like the plague.
> 
> I have been raising rabbits on alfalfa pellets, fresh timothy hay, and a pinch of oats daily for years. I haven't had one rabbit go off feed or have any digestive complications. Not one. So I would never change the diet. As they say, don't fix what isn't broken!
> 
> ...


Some pet owners have old rabbits that don't get much exercise, hay nor veges. They got to use timothy base pellets because they have sickly rabbits. Healthy young rabbits don't have those problems specially if they are fed more hay and greensthan pellets and have room enough to run around all day. Couch potato rabbits get sickly just like couch potato people.


----------



## tonyshuman (May 20, 2009)

I'd look into Purina (I know, Pennie, you don't like them) Hi-Fiber Lab diet. It is alfalfa-based, but it is very high in fiber. They feed it at the shelter (with TONS of good timmy hay) and the bunnies do very well, it seems. Stasis is very rare, and even the suspected megacolon bunny constantly poos (strangely shaped, but poos nonetheless). It seems to be a good pellet.


----------



## BethM (May 20, 2009)

*Baby Juliet wrote: *


> Some pet owners have old rabbits that don't get much exercise, hay nor veges. They got to use timothy base pellets because they have sickly rabbits. Healthy young rabbits don't have those problems specially if they are fed more hay and greensthan pellets and have room enough to run around all day. Couch potato rabbits get sickly just like couch potato people.



My rabbits all get a large salad, a small amount of timothy-based pellets, and a lot of hay. None of them are "old." None of them are inactive or overweight. One has digestive issues from time to time, but the other two do not, on the same diet and exercise regimen.


----------



## Pet_Bunny (May 20, 2009)

Martin Pellets sells two brands, one with Timothy Hay basedpellets and the other with Alfalfa based pellets. I have no problems giving my two bunnies alfalfa (alfalfa hay, alfalfa cubes or alfalfa pellets), but I would give them less or use it as a treat.

I feed mine Martin Timothy based pellets as they choose them over Oxbow pellets. I am sticking with Martins, as I never had any health issues with my bunnies, and their weight has been very consistent.

I do find the store prices have increased every time I purchase a new bag of Martins. 
Every month or two, the prices moved from $16.50 to $17.95 to $19.50 for the largest11 lb. bag.

The current price in Edmonton for the 10 lb. Oxbow pellets is $25.95



I agree with you, *Baby Juliet* that, 'Healthy young rabbits don't have those problems specially if they are fed more hay and greensthan pellets and have room enough to run around all day.' 
Pellets are only a small part of the rabbits diet, but the thing about sickly pet rabbits in my opinion is due to the junk foods that we tend to spoil our rabbits with.


----------



## undergunfire (May 20, 2009)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> *undergunfire wrote: *
> 
> 
> > APD looks pretty good, but with shipping for me for 50lbs it will be about $63 ($1.26 per lbs...still not bad). I forgot how much it costs to get a 50lbs bag sent to me through Oxbow...I'll have to find that out today.
> ...



I thought you were still able to order them directly over the phone :??


----------



## JadeIcing (May 20, 2009)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> *Bo B Bunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *undergunfire wrote: *
> ...


I belive you should be able to.


----------



## NorthernAutumn (May 21, 2009)

*Pet_Bunny wrote: *


> Martin Pellets sells two brands, one with Timothy Hay basedpellets and the other with Alfalfa based pellets. I have no problems giving my two bunnies alfalfa (alfalfa hay, alfalfa cubes or alfalfa pellets), but I would give them less or use it as a treat.
> 
> I feed mine Martin Timothy based pellets as they choose them over Oxbow pellets. I am sticking with Martins, as I never had any health issues with my bunnies, and their weight has been very consistent.


I am also using Martin's: my guys are on the Less-Active Adult formula... Slatey's had it for the past 3 years.
No dietary challenges so far, no stasis, diarrhea or anything.

My rabbits' weights have also been consistent... however, since the addition of an even larger run, the boys have trimmed down considerably.

As Stan noted, the price is around the 18 dollar mark in my area.


----------



## Baby Juliet (May 21, 2009)

*NorthernAutumn wrote: *


> .
> 
> My rabbits' weights have also been consistent... however, since the addition of an even larger run, the boys have trimmed down considerably.


What size is the run?


----------



## NorthernAutumn (May 21, 2009)

Almost my entire living room now... approx. 15x25 ft. Multilevel hutches help to use the vertical leap muscles too


----------



## Bo B Bunny (May 21, 2009)

Oh wow! I hope so Amy! I need to try to find out! 

I was told by our vet that at one year of age, bunnies need to be put on Timothy pellets. However, they can have ALfalfa pellets with a good Timothy hay or start them out on Timothy pellets and feed good alfalfa hay. We had to put Bo on Timothy hay early cause he was allergic to hay dust - especially the alfalfa.

Anyhow, I'm going to do some more looking around.... I'm hoping I have a chance next week - right now I'm bombarded..... some of it self-bombarding (painting) and I started getting sick yesterday. *sigh*


----------

