# RIP: Pippi is having a few problems



## cheryl (Sep 5, 2007)

Well Pippi has been going through a rough time lately,and Dr Lee and myself are trying to find outthe problem,he had a blood test today to see if he had kidney failure,but the test didn't show much,Dr Lee said that if he did have it he could be in the early stages of it,he also did another scan to check for bladder stones again,but that showed he didn't,but he said that he had one kidney bigger than the other,i'm not sure if that is bad or not,he also took another urine sample,which still shows that his urine is still very concentrated.

Pippi had a urine sample taken a few weeks ago,which showed his urine was very concentrated also,so that has stayed the same for some reason,i'm not sure why it would be so concentrated....pellets maybe?,he's had a wet bottom for the last couple weeks,the baytrill just didn't clear it up,now if it was cyctitis the baytril would have helped by now,so that's got Dr Lee thinking that there must be something else going on...but what we don't know.

Pippi also hasn't been able to hold his weight,he's very skinny and i can feel every little bone,but he's eating.

Dr Lee also mentioned that there also might be a possibility he could even have E Cunuculi...oh gosh that's all he needs

I'm fustrated..very fustrated.

Well Dr Lee prescribed a new medication for Pippi,he's now on Vibravet paste,i hope this will help with things.

It has been a very rough and expensive few months,from April until now i have spent over$1,600,but i'm desperate to find out what is wrong with him.

Cheryl


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## ra7751 (Sep 5, 2007)

Hi,

Couple of quick things. The best way to get a urine sample to get accurate results is a procedure called cystocentesis. It requires inserting a needle directly into the bladder. That way you get a pure sample. I see you mentioned Baytril. I rarely use that drug now due to resistant bacteria...especially pasteurella....but if you do use Baytril, it seems to be more effective as an injectable. And finally, have you noticed any sign of a neurological problem in a rear leg....maybe a very slight stumble or drag of a leg? It might be a very small event....but if so, it might be beneficial to titer for EC. And regardless..get this rabbit on sub-q fluids to support the renal system until a root cause if found.

Gotta run....PM me for more detailed info.

Randy


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## cheryl (Sep 5, 2007)

Hi Randy

When Pippi had his urine sampled a few weeks ago,Dr Lee did insert a needle into his bladder,but when he was at the vet yesterday he was feeling his bladder,he did a wee on the table so he just syringed that up.

I cannot believe you mentioned about him dragging his leg and stumbling,i was just mentioning in my blog about Pippi that he's been dragging one of his back legs ocassionally,and he does slightly wobble,especially when he grooms himself,he sometimes loses his balance,i've even seen him fall over a few times

Do you think Vibravet is ok for him?

I really appreciate your help,thankyou 

Oh gosh i'm really scared now

Cheryl


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## ra7751 (Sep 5, 2007)

Hi Cheryl,

I feel strongly that Pippi is in the infectious and contagious stage of an active EC infection. The concentrated urine and the small amount of paresis in the hind quarter and the unsteadiness are the first clinical signs. The urine is concentrated due to the spores of the infection shedding. It is contagious to other rabbits...and humans....and can remain viable in the environment outside a host for quite some time. I am pretty sure the urinalysis came up close to normal as far as bacteria....but it can't check for EC which is a protozoa. If you were to EC titer now, it would most likely return a high positive. I am not familiar with Vibravet but from the English versions of what I can find on it, it appears to be a broad spectrum antibiotic similar to our Baytril. While it may help with secondary infections, if it is EC, it would not be effective.

Since it appears from the information availablethat Pippi does have EC, I would ask the vet to start treatment immediately. The most favored treatment at this time is Fenbendazole (Panacur). It is basically a horse wormer. It's effectiveness is still up to debate. The most promising treatment right now is from the equine community. You may want to ask your vet to contact a large animal doctor and ask what the doctors in your area use to treat EPM in horses. The drug here is Marquis (Ponazuril) and is marketed by Bayer so I suspect it is available worldwide.

EC is a very challenging issue. I have special incentive to find a way to kill that little worm. I have dealt with it quite a bit. It is vitally important to support the renal system. EC is a wasting disease that takes it's time. Eventually, any rabbit suffering from this ailment will usually succumb to renal failure. The last three I have had did. If this is EC, with proper husbandry and support, Pippi may live a long and happy life. It is also possible that her immune system can "put the genie back into the bottle" and go into remission.

Talk with your doctor and let me know what you decide to do. I will be glad to share all of our info on dealing with EC with you and your doctor.

Randy


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## cheryl (Sep 5, 2007)

Oh Randy,thankyou,thankyou,thankyou,i'm just so over the moon that i have someone to talk about this,i've cried and cried because i didn't know what was wrong,i cried even more when i read your first reply,i just really did not expect him to have EC.

You mentioned Panacur..Dr Lee also prescribed that yesterday as well,he has to have some now and then again in 10 days time

Another thing,Pippi has been drinking so much water,is that because of EC?

Thanks heaps for everything 

Cheryl


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## ra7751 (Sep 5, 2007)

Hi Cheryl,

To go after EC, the panacur should be given *EVERY DAY* for at least 28 days and I have gone as far as 60 days consecutively.

The water drinking is a response to the kidney damage from the spores. They create scar tissue which inhibits the function of the kidneys. Let him drink all he wants. And get your doctor to teach you to administer sub-q fluids....you will need to know how soon.

TLC is vitally important. Work with Pippi as much as possible.

Randy


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## cheryl (Sep 5, 2007)

Hi Randy

Ok,i will give Dr Lee a call today,hopefully he's at the surgery today,and i will tell him about what you have said about giving him the Panacur every day,i know i might sound stupid,but what will the Panacur actually do?

Cheryl


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## ra7751 (Sep 5, 2007)

The Panacur is actually a wormer used in many animals...primarily horses.... that can kill protozoa. The difficulty ina rabbit is to get the blood levels up enough to penetrate the blood/brain barrier. That is why you dose every day for long term.


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## cheryl (Sep 5, 2007)

Ahh ok thanks,also i suppose this is why he's been looking tired?

Another thing,if this is actually EC which i'm very sure it is now,how long would he havehad to have it before the sign's start to appear?

Cheryl


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## JimD (Sep 5, 2007)

I wish I could offer some help 
...for now I'll "warm the bench" and send prayers.
ray:

~Jim


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## cheryl (Sep 5, 2007)

Thankyou Jim,i really appreciate that,it really means a lot to me:hug:


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## Bo B Bunny (Sep 5, 2007)

*ra7751 wrote: *


> The Panacur is actually a wormer used in many animals...primarily horses.... that can kill protozoa. The difficulty ina rabbit is to get the blood levels up enough to penetrate the blood/brain barrier. That is why you dose every day for long term.



we use panacur for the horses..... we also use ivermectin for them and I have a tube for the bunnies incase they need a drop.

Are you a vet? Just curious


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## ra7751 (Sep 6, 2007)

I can only wish I were a vet. I deal with very sick bunnies in our rescue. I have the support of some of the best vets in the country....a nice benefit that I live within an easy drive to a major vet school.


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## ra7751 (Sep 6, 2007)

Hi Cheryl,

He looks tired most likely due to a combination of dehydration and hypoglycemia. If it is EC, proper support of the renal system can't be stressed enough. Since the kidneys filter toxins from the blood, if they don't work fully....it will make them (or any living creature) feel bad.

Randy


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## cheryl (Sep 6, 2007)

Hi Randy,

Thanks for that,i guess that explains why he seems lethargic a lot

I wasn't able to talk to Dr Lee today as it was his day of,so i have left a message with the nurse to tell Dr Lee to call me as soon as possible tomorrow morning.

I'm really nervous as i would have never ever suspected him to have EC

I really appreciate your help with this 

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Sep 6, 2007)

I've been wondering about head tilt,do all bunnies with EC develop head tilt eventually?,or is that only when EC is at it's worst?,i'm sorry for all the questions but i just need to know.

I have been looking up EC on the net,but don't seem to be getting the answers i want

Thankyou

Cheryl


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## okiron (Sep 6, 2007)

*huggies* pippi will be in my prayers


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## cheryl (Sep 6, 2007)

Aww thankyou Okiron :hug:


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## ra7751 (Sep 6, 2007)

Hi Cheryl,

There is a lot of unconfirmed and inaccurate information on the internet regarding treatment of EC. There is no proof that EC causes head tilt. Most likely, and as per our experiences, that EC contributes to head tilt by compromising the immune system and that allows harmful bacteria to grow resulting in a bacterial infection in the ears. Our rabbits with EC had ongoing bacterial infections (ears, eyes, urinary, upper respiratory, etc.)that were secondary to the EC. The immune system is so overwhelmed that it is focusing on the primary infection. There are many sites out there that claim all sorts of "success" stories about treating EC. Many of these stories will involve head tilt, an antibiotic and an anti-parasitic like ivermectin. Fact is, most of these cases were probably not EC since EC does not respond to antibiotics and/or drugs like ivermectin. I do have some good articles on EC that are based on clinical fact documented by top veterinarians....I will send some of the your way later today.

Randy


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## JadeIcing (Sep 6, 2007)

*Hugs to Pippi*


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## Bo B Bunny (Sep 6, 2007)

*ra7751 wrote: *


> I can only wish I were a vet. I deal with very sick bunnies in our rescue. I have the support of some of the best vets in the country....a nice benefit that I live within an easy drive to a major vet school.



That's great! You know a lot and that is a blessing for many of us.

My daughter keeps wanting to go to Purdue University and become an exotics vet. I hope she does it - she's almost 12 now and a lot of kids change their minds but somehow I think she's going to do it.

My niece is there in the vet school now. She's going to do equine and other large animals I think. She's more clinical and wants to fix horses. My daughter is so caring that she wants to make the little ones better and know enough to help the horses too.

It's going to be awhile before we know and if she does it - even longer! but I keep praying she does.


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## ra7751 (Sep 6, 2007)

Hi Bo B....we have a friend that went with her 13 year old daughter to a summer camp at Purdue. She wants to be a vet too.

And an equine vet? How convenient. Many of the treatments used for horses can also be safely used on rabbits.

Randy


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## NZminilops (Sep 6, 2007)

Oh my goodness, poor Pippi!

I'm sending you a hug across the ditch Cheryl, I hope Pippi is going to be ok.

Thank god we have Randy for all of that great information.

:hug: Good luck with Pippi and keep us posted ok?


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## cheryl (Sep 6, 2007)

That's a very sweet picture Alishia,i just love it and i send you a big thankyou :hug:

Michelle,i could really do with that hug at the moment.....thankyou :hug:



Hi Randy,

Your right when you say that there are a lot of success stories on the net also including head tilt,i came across a few of those stories yesterday,this is why i would rather talk to someone about it instead..it's just different and i get a better understanding of things.

I just have another question though about Pippi dragging his hind leg,he only does it ocassionally,wouldn't he be doing it all the time and not just sometimes?

And also about his weight,is this why he's very skinny?

Thankyou

Cheryl


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## ra7751 (Sep 6, 2007)

Hi Cheryl.

Everything you are mentioning is taking me back to Yoda and Sabrina. We lost Yoda a year ago this week due to renal failure after a brave battle with EC. He initially presented with a series of bacterial infections starting with an ear infection and severe head tilt. After 8 months of treatment, he got a clean culture and the tilt corrected. That was the first in a series of infections. Then we noticed he would stumble every now and then....the left rear leg. Then it wouldn't happen for a while. But EC is a wasting disease much like ALS in humans....it takes their bodies bit by bit. The degree and severity of any paresis is directly related to the degree of infection and exactly what part of the brain is infected. Yoda actually went down on his side for a while and then came back to normal....and this happened several times over a couple of years. He was never a large rabbit....he was a Holland Lop and I don't recall him weighing much over 1.5kg at any time....but he did lose weight as the EC infection progressed.

It's difficult to keep weight on a small rabbit with EC. We have used higher calorie foods like alfalfa and kale...but they can have long term implications in the kidneys and they are already under fire from the EC. We have also used Nutri-Cal (fat in a tube) that is used for sick dogs and cats...but in limited amounts. There are some appetite stimulants that can be administered....I prefer an injection of B Comp as there are usually no side effects from that. I suspect he is dehydrated so some fluids might make him feel better and eat more. And it might not be a bad idea to do a couple of fecals on him.....but if he does have any intestinal parasites, the panacur should take care of most of them..but a fecal wouldn't hurt.

Randy


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## cheryl (Sep 6, 2007)

Oh no,Pippi has blood around his nose!,it'snot much,but it's noticeable ,i don't know what's happening 

Randy,it's Pippi's left hind leg that he's been dragging to

I also talked to Dr Lee just a minute ago,and he's prescribing more Panacur for Pippi,i can go and pick it up today



Randy..thanks heaps 

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Sep 6, 2007)

This is my healthy Pippi,taken last year







This is my Pippi now..






You can see the difference in him


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## JimD (Sep 7, 2007)

ray:


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## MsBinky (Sep 7, 2007)

Keeping you and Pippi in my thoughts and prayers. I really hope Pippi will get better soon :rose:


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## cheryl (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanks Jim,i'm sure Pippi appreciates that very much

Well,i cleaned the blood away from his nose this morning,and nothing has happened since,so i just don't know what happened there,i hope it doesn't happen again,gosh i got really scared when i seen the blood...i thought.....ohh no!

I went to the vet today to pick up the extra Panacur,so now i'm happy that he can start taking the meds every day now

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Sep 7, 2007)

Thankyou MsBinky,me and Pippireally do appreciate that so much :hug:


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## Bo B Bunny (Sep 7, 2007)

Oh my, the blood would have me really freaked out! That poor little baby! 

Keep us posted!


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## ra7751 (Sep 7, 2007)

Hi Cheryl,

If the current picture of Pippi has been made recently....get him hydrated!!!! His condition looks exactly like Yoda. I will bet money that his kidneys are being stessed. Lactated Ringers is the order of the day. Insist your vet hydrate him at 5% and teach you how to do it. Get a blood panel and check the kidney values....knowing that information will be vital in the coming battle to form a benchmark to know how to proceed with treatment.

Randy


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## AngelnSnuffy (Sep 7, 2007)

Oh Cheryl, I'm so sorry Pippi is in a bad way. You've gotten some great advice from Randy. Let us know what you find out from the blood panel, I hope you can get that done soon.

You and Pippi will be in my thoughts:hug:. Good Luck!


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## naturestee (Sep 7, 2007)

ray:


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## cheryl (Sep 7, 2007)

Randy,i will be seeing the Dr today,so i will have a talk to him about Pippi

In all those months,Pippi has had numerous tests,but the only thing he wasn't tested for was EC,now i feel like i have left it to late for him,i just don't think he's going to recover from this,i feel like an idiot,why didn't i think of EC before,Pippi may have had more of a chance if he started treatment long ago,i feel like banging my head against the wall...really hard...i really feel like it's allmy fault!

Pippi is such a delicate little thing at the moment,he's so thin,i can even feel his bones in his back legs,near his bottom

It's out of my control,and i feel really helpless,no matter what i seem to be doing for Pippi,i feel like i'm being punished for something,and it really sucks!

Thankyou again for everyone's kind words,i forever appreciate it


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## MsBinky (Sep 8, 2007)

*cheryl13 wrote: *


> Randy,i will be seeing the Dr today,so i will have a talk to him about Pippi
> 
> In all those months,Pippi has had numerous tests,but the only thing he wasn't tested for was EC,now i feel like i have left it to late for him,i just don't think he's going to recover from this,i feel like an idiot,why didn't i think of EC before,Pippi may have had more of a chance if he started treatment long ago,i feel like banging my head against the wall...really hard...i really feel like it's allmy fault!
> 
> ...




Whoa whoa waaaaaaaaaait. It's not over yet! Don't give up now. You aren't a vet, you can't know all these things. Rabbits are good at hiding things and most vets are just learning about them. It's not like you have been neglecting him! :hugsquish:


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## ra7751 (Sep 8, 2007)

Hi Cheryl,

MsBinkey just gave you some of the best advice you will ever get. This is not your fault....but I understand your feelings.....been there a few too many times. You have done nothing wrong to cause this. Fact is, if it is EC, nearly every domestic rabbit carries it....just for some reason, some rabbits develop an active infection. There is no vaccine or any other preventative measure other than proper husbandry and I don't think there is any question you have done that.

Pippi is going to need all the support he can get if this is EC. These guys know when you are trying to help them....my Sabrina knew, my Yoda knew....and you should see our head tilt bunny respond to us. Keep the faith and help him fight. If you believe in him....he will believe in himself and he will fight to defeat this. Don't ever give up on him. You have to be tough for Pippi....help him fight.

Randy


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## cheryl (Sep 8, 2007)

Ahh i'm sorry for seeming like such a downer,but i just felt really sad this morning,and i'm a thinker,i think way to much,and i get stressed very easy when i cannot control a situation.

I know i have to fight thiswith Pippi,i have been doing it for months now,i know i won't give up fighting for him.

You should see him though,he will just be sitting there looking sad,and then he will spot me,and he pops his head up andit's like his eyes light up and he will hop to me,but in a unsteady way,but he does it..you know

I have a close bond with my bunnies,but going through all this stuff with Pippi has brought us even more closer,it's just something really special


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 8, 2007)

Just to let you know I'm thinking of you and Pippi Cheryl.ray:


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## polly (Sep 8, 2007)

Thinking of you for both your bunnies :hug:ray:


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 9, 2007)

How is Pippi doing Cheryl?ray:


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## MsBinky (Sep 9, 2007)

Yeah how are you and Pippi?


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## cheryl (Sep 9, 2007)

Thankyou Polly 

Jess and MsBinky...Pippi hasn't made no improvement or anything,things have just stayed aboutthe same,but i am noticing that he's getting more unsteady on his feet though,and just yesterday he was acting more strange than usual,i was watching him and he was sitting there but it was like he couldn't keep still,it's hard to explain,but it was like he was sliding himself along thefloor just inch by inch,kinda just moving with his front legs,and then he would stop and just sit there.

He still has a wet bottom,no meds seem to be clearing that up,i have to wash him a few times a day,and his urine has this really strong ammonia smell.

Iv'e been giving him his Panacur every day,and he has 1 1/2 mls of that,he really does not like the taste of that,and he is being so stubborn about taking it,but i know he needs every little drop of it.


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 10, 2007)

I wish I could be there to help you out Cheryl, or at least have some helpful advice to give you. You need some goodnews honey after all you have been through - it's so unfair, my heart breaks for you.

Sending a million prayers to you and Pippi.ray:


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## cheryl (Sep 12, 2007)

I have this cream,that i have been using on Pippi,and it's called Neotopic-H lotion,it's a Antibiotic,Anti inflammatory with local anaesthetic,i'm to apply this to the area once a day for for days,and then stop for four days,and then apply for another four days,but i was thinking that maybe... baby nappy rash cream might be better because then i could use it all the time,i'm not sure what to do,and i was just wondering if thatNeotopic H lotionis ok to useanyway,i just want to make sure,that's all

Cheryl



Ps,thanks Jess,you are very sweet


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## Bo B Bunny (Sep 12, 2007)

I don't think they can have the anti-inflamatory. We have a cream/ointment called Neosporin PLUS which has a pain killer with the antibiotics and I know it's not safe for them....... it's bad on their kidneys I think.

I'm just guessing so if someone else knows more - I could be very wrong here.


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## cheryl (Sep 12, 2007)

Thanks Bo,this is why i just want to be sure


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## Haley (Sep 12, 2007)

I cant really find anything on the Neotopic H in association with rabbits. I did find one article stating that bunnies with reactions the RHD vaccine in Australia were given it at the place of irritation. If your vet is rabbit savvy, I'd trust it unless someone knows otherwise. 

Im thinking of you Cheryl, and sweet Pippi.


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## cheryl (Sep 21, 2007)

Well,i thought i would just do a little update on Pippi...even though there is no good news

He has been on the Panacur for 12 days now,i haven't seen any improvement at all,in fact,i know that he's slowly deteriorating..and i don't know what to do..i don't know how to help him .

His leftleg seems to be getting worse,i was watching him today and it seemed as if his left leggoes stiff on him or something,because he kinda twisted himself around without using his left leg...poor boy,he's starting to drag it even more now..i'm also noticing him slightlyfalling to the left side just a bit when he hops..i just don't know if i'm going to wake up one morning to find Pippi not being able to walk...it was horrible enough when it happened to Marshmallow...even though it was a different situation

Since the 20th April,everything has gone wrong with Pippi...and gosh..he has been to the vets many,many times during those five months..i've been through a lot with Pippi..i've lost Strawberry,Lulu,Benjamin and Marsh,i lost them all while i was going through such a terrible time with Pippi,i was feeling quite emotionally exhausted,and i still feel that way about Pippi,all i seem to be doing is worrying about him.

But yeah...he's slowly getting worse day by day..and i just don't know what's going to happen next when he's finished the Panacur..i guess it's just a wait and see what happens thing,but i know he's not going to recover from this..deep down i know this...but i will still fight for him until the end

I just wish that there was something more that i could do to help him














Oh and thankyou Haley


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## clarzoo (Sep 21, 2007)

I am so sorry to hear you are still having problems with Pippi. He sure is a cute little guy. I hope you vet is able to help him out soon. :hug:


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## m.e. (Sep 21, 2007)

ray: for Pippi

:hug: for you


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## MsBinky (Sep 21, 2007)

I'm so sorry things aren't getting better :hug:I'm sending all my love and hugs your way.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Sep 24, 2007)

Hi Cheryl, just thinking of you and wondering how Pippi is doing:?.


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## rabb1tmad (Sep 24, 2007)

Oh I do hope Pippi is doing better. He might take a while before getting better. If it is EC he could go through some ups and downs before he fully recovers.

Prayers from all of ushere x


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 25, 2007)

:bigtears:

Thinking of you Cheryl.:hug:I'm just a PM away.


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## Haley (Sep 26, 2007)

:sad:You and Pippi are in my thoughts and prayers, Cheryl. I wish there was more I could do to help.


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## cheryl (Sep 27, 2007)

Thanks guys,i really doappreciate your kind words :hug:

Pippi was doing really bad for a while,and i mean he was bad....his left leg is still giving him trouble,some days it's much worse than other days..poor boy,i just feel so sorry for him.He hops slowly now,as i've noticed he doesn't have the steadiness in himself anymore,even when grooming himself he sometimesgoes off balance,but he doesn't give up,he just gets back to what he was doing.

Yesterdayi had taken the bunnies out side since it was such a beautiful sunny day,well anyway,Pippi was enjoying himself munching on the grass and then he slowly went for a little wander and he came to the littlestep that he used to love running up and down..he went down the step and he fell,he was struggling to get back up,so i helped him up,he was ok though.....poor bugger..i just don't know if he's going to get past this.

Well just today,Pippi must have had a spurt of energy,because he seen me coming down the hallway,so he did thislittle run...kind of a wobbly run,but he still made the effort,but then he just kind of sat there,like he has been doing,haha,but i did smother him in lotsa kisses though,i was so proud of him

He's been on the Panacur for 19 days now,and he hates the stuff,but if i mix it with a bit of cordial,he soon takes it,and it just makes things so much easier and stress free,i don't even have to hold him to give it to him,i just kneel on the floor and he takes it with no worries.

He is still very skinny,and has put on no weight at all,even though he is eating fine,he doesn't seem to eat many pellets anymore,but he still has an appetite for everything else..but i have noticed something strange though,when i would give the bunnies fresh hay,Pippi would be like the first one there munching out on it,but lately he hasn't been doing that..in fact i've put some right in front of him and he just moves away from it...he does still love toeat hay though,just not like he used to :?



Jess says..I'm just a PM away.

Thanks Jess:hug:

Cheryl


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Sep 28, 2007)

*cheryl13 wrote: *


> Well just today,Pippi must have had a spurt of energy,because he seen me coming down the hallway,so he did thislittle run...kind of a wobbly run,but he still made the effort


Cheryl - this bit really warmed my heart. Bless Pippi, he still has fight left in him, I know it.:hug:


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## MsBinky (Sep 29, 2007)

Many hugs and prayers for you both :hug:ray:


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## cheryl (Oct 16, 2007)

It's 8:45pm here at the moment,and i just got back from taking Pippi to the emergency vet,i came home tonight to find him lying on his side and he just didn't look right...so i quickly packed him up in his basket,and i called the emergency vet on my mobile..on the way there.

The drchecked him over,and couldn't find anything noticeable wrong with him,except his eyes looked a bit glazed,but the dr said he might of had a seizure,so she wanted me to leave Pippi there over night.

I know the hospitalis the best place for him at the moment,just incase something happened at home during the night.But i wanted him home with me,he's never been away from home overnight before...my poor boy,he probably thinks that i've abandoned him.

I hope he's going to be ok....he just has to be.

cheryl


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## slavetoabunny (Oct 16, 2007)

ray:ray:ray:


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## m.e. (Oct 16, 2007)

Oh, Cheryl. I'll be ray: :hug:


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## JadeIcing (Oct 16, 2007)

Sending tons of prayers, love and vibes.


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## BlueGiants (Oct 16, 2007)

Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.... and sending positive vibes your way...

ray:


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## AngelnSnuffy (Oct 16, 2007)

ray:


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Oct 16, 2007)

I don't know what to say,:bigtears: praying for Pippi.ray:ray:ray:


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## Haley (Oct 16, 2007)

Oh Cheryl, Im so sorry. Im praying for you and for sweet Pippi ray:ray:


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 16, 2007)

Oh Cheryl, I hope he's ok. I can't imagine how hard it was to leave him there! It's like with children - you want to stay right there with them!

Have you any news?


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## tonyshuman (Oct 16, 2007)

oh the poor sweet little thing
sending good thoughts for you and pippi


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## naturestee (Oct 16, 2007)

Any news yet? ray:


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## cheryl (Oct 16, 2007)

Thankyou for all the prayers and good wishes,i cannot tell you just how much i appreciate it. :hug:

It's 8:30am here just now,and i'm about to call the vet...i'm so nervous,but if something had happened to him during the night,they would have called me.

So i'mon my wayto take my son to school now,and then i willcome home and make that phone call

cheryl


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 16, 2007)

Any news? I've been worried all day.


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## cheryl (Oct 16, 2007)

Just got of the phone,and Pippi is doing much better than he did last night,the nurse said that they gave him fluids last night also...i don't know much else until i can pick him up tonight at 5:20pm and speak with the Dr.

At the moment i'm so relieved,just to hear those words,that Pippi is doing better

Thanks everyone

cheryl


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## naturestee (Oct 16, 2007)

Oh thank god!

:jumpforjoy:


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## AngelnSnuffy (Oct 16, 2007)

Oh Cheryl, what a relief. Thank goodness!! Let us know how he is when you get home.


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## Bo B Bunny (Oct 16, 2007)

I sure hope that little man is ok now. Give him an extra kiss and cheek rub from me ok?!


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Oct 17, 2007)

Phew - that is such a relief Cheryl!:hug:


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## naturestee (Oct 17, 2007)

Any updates? Is Pippi home yet?


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## Flashy (Oct 17, 2007)

Thinking fo you and Pippi

x


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## tonyshuman (Oct 18, 2007)

glad to hear he's doing better! sounds like he's headed in the right direction!


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## cheryl (Oct 18, 2007)

Sorry guys,i should have updated yestersday.

Pippi is home..thank goodness,and he's doing much better,his eyes look a LOT brighter now,where as before they just looked dull and lifeless,he was ok during the night,there were no dramas,but he was very quiet and very sleepy though,but other than that he was fine.The Dr said that he looked like a different bunny in the morning,he was sitting up and everything..and they finally got him to eat some pellets as well,where asthat nighthe didn't want to eat or drink anything,so that is why he had sub q fluids.

The only thing is now that he's had a seizure,there could be a possibility that it can happen again,as if poor Pippi hasn't been through enough already

He also had his weightchecked and he weighs just under 1.6 kg,he's lost more weight,before his illness he weighed a healthy 1.9 kg,it's sad to see him so thin,and knowing that no matter what i feed him,he justwon't put the weight on 

But he's home now,and i'm just so happy,because with everything that has been going on,i thought i was going to lose him to,and i was really stressing out

I really want to say a BIG THANKYOU to all you guys,you really are the most sweetest bunch of people:hug:


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## Flashy (Oct 18, 2007)

Bless your heart. I'm so glad for your both that he is home 

My Boofy had a seizure when she was a few months old, she lived another two asnd a half years and never had another, with hindsight, shre probably had EC too. so just because he has had one, doesn't necessarily mean there will be more weven if there is a higher chance there will be more.

I;m glad he is still fighting. keep us updated and you know where my PM box is.

take vare.


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## cheryl (Oct 18, 2007)

*Flashy wrote: *


> My Boofy had a seizure when she was a few months old, she lived another two asnd a half years and never had another, with hindsight, shre probably had EC too. so just because he has had one, doesn't necessarily mean there will be more weven if there is a higher chance there will be more.



Thanks Tracey,that does give me some hope,i would just hate for him to have another seizure....i lost my little girl bunny Lulu on the 7th August 07,she had a terrible seizure one night,and while i was rushing her to the hospital,she had 3 more seizures and i had to put her to sleep,she had other health problems as well,i just didn't want to go through that all over again...it's avery,very sad thing to see.

It seems as though Pippi'shaving his up's and down's,some days he looks good,not perfect,because if you seen him in real life,you would notice straight away,that there was something wrong with him,he's still unsteady on his feet,he can clean himself but it seems to take a lot of effort for him he still loses his balance,he also still drags his left leg now and again....poor boy.

At the moment Pippi's just hanging out in the loungeroom,relaxing by the window where the sun iscoming through...that was Marshmallow's favourite spot 

cheryl


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## Leaf (Oct 20, 2007)

*ra7751 wrote: *


> Many of the treatments used for horses can also be safely used on rabbits.
> 
> Randy


In light of this, with my own rabbit vet being further away than the local feed stores that cater to horses and cattle, can you recommend any staples for my home in case of an emergency, or for general use?


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## Leaf (Oct 20, 2007)

*cheryl13 wrote: *


> It seems as though Pippi'shaving his up's and down's,some days he looks good,not perfect,because if you seen him in real life,you would notice straight away,that there was something wrong with him,he's still unsteady on his feet,he can clean himself but it seems to take a lot of effort for him he still loses his balance,he also still drags his left leg now and again....poor boy.
> 
> At the moment Pippi's just hanging out in the loungeroom,relaxing by the window where the sun iscoming through...that was Marshmallow's favourite spot
> 
> cheryl


((hugs))


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## TK Bunnies (Oct 20, 2007)

I'm glad to hear that Pippi is doing better!!! Every thing you siad sounds positive now, then again I'm not a vet, but I think he'll be okay!

Keeping you in my thoughts,

-TK ray:


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## MsBinky (Oct 21, 2007)

Oh Cheryl,I am glad Pippi is doing better. I hope he gets all better soon. Seeing a rabbit having a seixure is one of the saddest things I have seen. I feel for you. :hug:


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## cheryl (Oct 21, 2007)

Thankyou Leaf and TK:hug:

MsBinky...the first time i had ever seen a bunny have a seizure was my little girl Lulu,and i lost all my self control as i just didn't know what to do...i know it sounds very silly,but i just didn't know what to do...she died that night 7th august 07.

And then when Pippi had a seizure...i didn't see him having the seizure though,i was just so scared that,i thought i was going to lose him...but thankfully he is still here with me 

Thanks MsBinky :hug:

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Oct 22, 2007)

I was sitting with Pippi today,and i was calling him to come to me

This is what he thought..


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## AngelnSnuffy (Oct 22, 2007)

Hee hee, cute! I'm glad he's doing okay. You guys are in my thoughts Cheryl.:hug:

Feel free to blast us with Pippi pics!


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## JadeIcing (Oct 23, 2007)

*:biggrin2:Love it*

*cheryl13 wrote: *


> I was sitting with Pippi today,and i was calling him to come to me
> 
> This is what he thought..


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## MsBinky (Oct 23, 2007)

Oh Pippi quit being a bugger and causing your mama grief Lol. Hope he is getting bett. I love the pic :biggrin2:


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## cheryl (Nov 2, 2007)

Well i just thought i would do a little update on Pippi,not that there is really much to say anyway

He's still doing ok,he looks so much better than he used to,he still has the problem with dragging his left leg ocassionally,he kinda has incontinence issues,and his urine can smell like bad ammonia..he still loses his balance every now and again..he's also still skinny,but he's eating like there is no tomorrow so i have no concerns in that part,it's just that he won't put any weight on...he's struggling a bit with his weight.

I cannot get him tested for EC as Adelaide has no animal pathologist here,this is why Dr Lee had no idea where to send the EC test.

Then when i took Daisy to the vet,i had asked the Dr thereif he knew..and he also didn't know where to send the EC test

So when i seen Sally yesterday,i told her about Pippi and that he needs to be tested for EC...she kinda laughed and said that there is nothing here in Adelaide where animals can be tested for things like that....it's because there is no demand for tests like that,as Sally was explaining..people just don't give a sh*t about their bunnies,so it makes it very hard for responsible pet owners like myself who want to do the right thing.

The only way he can be tested is if the sample is sent of interstate to one of the big universities in Melbourne or New South Wales,this would cost hundreds of dollars to do that.

So i have just been looking after Pippi and his needs as best as i can.

Cheryl


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## Eve (Nov 3, 2007)

Hi Cheryl,

Maybe my rabbit vet in Melbourne could help you with the EC tests, she has really good facilities and contacts. She is really lovely. I'm sure you would be able to send the samples to her, or she could tell you where to send them to in Melbourne. Layla has had a lot of culture tests and they only cost me around $150. 

Ihave sent you a PM.


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## cheryl (Nov 3, 2007)

Thanks heaps Eve..it's just ridiculous how Adelaide has nothing over here.

You know the equine flu that is going around..well the horses here cannot even get tested,they have to send the samples away interstate.

Oh and i replyed to your pm,as you probably already know 

Again,thankyou Eve

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Nov 15, 2007)

Well here i am again,more troubles with Pippi....once again he was at the vets today,because every so often he ends up with a wet bottom..i have had him at the vets numerous times with this problem,every urine test he has had,all came up that he had veryconcentrated urine,he had no infections,but the Dr gave him Baytril anyway,which never did anything,weirdly it would go away by itself,but eventually would come back again.

This time it just would not go away

Well today the Dr did a urine sample again,but surprisingly it showed up that it was very dilute,the Dr then asked me had Pippi been drinking a lot:?,i just don't understand what is going on with Pippi.

He also checked his bladder,and it was full!,for some reason,Pippi's bladder isn't working properly,i forget what else he said,and he also mentioned about maybehis kidney's are not working properly,but i told him that Pippi has hadblood tests to check for kidney failure,he's also had xray's,everything came back ok,except that he had one kidney bigger than the other..i don't know if that is normal or not.

So what i have to do now is help Pippi pass his urine,so i have to squeeze his bladder gently...the Dr had to do that today,and poor Pippi had so much urine in his bladder,it was stretched to the max for some reason....something is wrong with my Pippi.

This boy has had so many problems,i'm scared his little body is justgiving up slowly

Gosh,i have just had enough with all this worrying 

*screams...why me!*

Cheryl


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 15, 2007)

Seems they could give him something to help that condition. Did you ask about that?

How old is Pippi?


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## cheryl (Nov 15, 2007)

No i didn't ask about that,..but i have to take him back in two weeks for a check up,so i can ask a bit more about it then,but at the moment he's just basicallyguessing anyway....Pippi isn't able to empty his bladder like a normal bunny,he just does little bits at a time....it's just getting fustrating...and everything bad seems to be happening to me all at once.

Pippi is just over 31/2 years old

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Nov 16, 2007)

All this time,i was thinking Pippi had slight incontinance,Dr Lee had said the same thing,we knew it wasn't an infection because the baytril never cleared it up,and after taking Pippi to this other vet,he says something different,and now i believe he didn't have incontinance at all,he's got something wrong with his bladder like this other vet said (Dr Steven Crouch)...but i still don't seem to be getting the answers that i want though.

You know before April this year,everything was fine no problems,nothing!..and then all of a sudden Pippi ended up with all these health problems..one after the other...he was kinda living at the vets :shock:

I keep all my vet reciepts for every bunny that goes to the vet,and Pippi has this little pile going on :shock:

But i just wish i could just get some answers..even though i just wish i could have a break from all this worry,i just went through a bad time with Daisy.

Could it be that his little body is just breaking down slowly?..but he's still eating like normal,he's still very skinny though..when the Dr weighed him yesterday,he weighed 1.6 something kilos(but that was while he had such a full bladder),he used to be a healthy 1.9 kilos,for a mini lop that's an ideal weight

A very frustrated mummy here!

Cheryl


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## AngelnSnuffy (Nov 16, 2007)

Oh Cheryl, I'm sorry. I wish I knew what to suggest. Have there been xrays done of Pippi? Usually a first resort of finding trouble. I did with BunBun, who had heart failure. I only suggest it, because, that is cheaper, if they find something. Then go at it. 

I'm really sorry though hon. I know how you feel too. I wish I had more answers, as did they.


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## cheryl (Nov 16, 2007)

That's just the thing,he's had scans,x rays,blood tests,urinalysis's,many of them!,it's unbelievable what he has gone through.

I'm wondering,does anyone know if we as pet owners areallowed to have copies of our pets files?,i would love to get Pippi's,but i'm not sure if i should ask or not.

Pippi is also losing a lot of fur,like tufts of it at a time,i don't really know if he's molting or what :?

Cheryl


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## AngelnSnuffy (Nov 16, 2007)

*cheryl wrote: *


> I'm wondering,does anyone know if we as pet owners areallowed to have copies of our pets files?,i would love to get Pippi's,but i'm not sure if i should ask or not.
> 
> Pippi is also losing a lot of fur,like tufts of it at a time,i don't really know if he's molting or what :?
> 
> Cheryl


If your bill is paid up, yes. You have a right to those files and test results. You have to sign a waiver or whatever for them to release most info, but x-rays you should just be able to take, without the file, in an emergency or such. The vet will consult with the other. Go for it Cheryl. Get those files transferred over to the other vet, asap. Sending good vibes.:hug:


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## cheryl (Nov 16, 2007)

Yeah,i think i will just transfer him over to this vet,since he was the one who mentioned about Pippi's bladder,but there are still no answers for me as to what i can do,maybe they just don't really know themselves :?

Thanks Crystal,your a gem 

Cheryl


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## Pipp (Nov 16, 2007)

I spent a few hours trying to research this this morning, but the possiblities are so numerous (virus, parasite, bacterial infection, various forms of cancer, hidden stones, etc).

Definitely get the records over to another vet. 

Here's hoping there's a quick fix out there. 

Poor Pippi! Poor Cheryl! 



sas :clover:


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## cheryl (Nov 17, 2007)

Sas,when you mentioned cancer...well i've been thinking the same thing for quite a while now,i don't know why,but i have,he's had all sorts of things going on with him,for over 7 months,i've been desperately looking for an answer for my Pippi...he's had tests for this tests for that,he's had scans,xrays you name it,i just don't know what else to do,but i just keep on trying,if i transfer him over then this will be vet no 3 :shock:,the very first vet wanted me to put him to sleep there and then because he was in such a bad way,the vet didn't expect him to make it,really,i didn't think he was going to make it either..but i still had that faith in me,but Pippi survived,this is a reason why i had such a hard time with making the decision for Daisy.

I just feel like i'm forever taking him to the vet and going home with still no answersbut just more problems 

I have also been trying to find something on the net..but to tell you the truth..i don't know what i'm looking at :?

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Nov 17, 2007)

I was just thinking...if Pippi had something like bladder cancer,would that show up in a scan..xray?.i'm not saying he has this,but i know there is something wrong with Pippi,there's something hiding in there,something that hasn't already been detected..he has to many problems for such a little bunny 

I ask this question,because Pippi has had xrays,if something was wrong wouldn't they have seen anything?

I have been trying to find info on bladder cancer now,but all i'm coming up with is cancer in humans


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## Pipp (Nov 17, 2007)

It's so hard to say. Looking at this stuff there seems to be a million things. There is a kind of cancer that wouldn't show up in an xray, but I'd think the blood test would have detected it? 

But I also read a study about E. Cuniculi in the kidney, and many others that may or may not fit, it's tough to say. There's even a type of kidney stone that isn't detectable on an xray. I'mnot sure about the bladder. 

Have they treated for EC, btw? Pretty often vets will prescribea drug like oxibendazole as well as Baytril while waiting for test results. Did Pippi get something like that? 

One obvious that I missed (not sure if anyone else suggested) isunsweetened cranberry juice. It can help in a few ways, and I don't think it can hurt. 



sas :clover:


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## cheryl (Nov 17, 2007)

When i transfered Pippi from the first vet to the second vet,which was Dr Lee,because it was thought that Pippi had a bladder stone,and this first Dr was going to operate,but Pippi would havehad to wait forfew days:shock:,lucky i transfered him over to Dr Lee,who did an ultrasound or scan and checked his bladderand he never had a stoneand he's had his kidneys checked as well,Pippi just had an over full bladder,and i mean over full,it shouldn't get like that for no reason.

Also no he hasn't been checked for EC yet..a member on here by the name Eve,who is from Melbourne, asked her rabbit savvy vet,about Pippi for me,and Eve wrote back saying that it's not really worth it,because if he does have EC well then it will only show up a very high positive result...i will have to go back and have a look at my pm and see what else it says.

It was so good of Eve to do that for me 

Anyway when i had taken Daisy for a check up on her foot a few weeks ago,i asked the new Dr if he knew how i can get Pippi tested for EC,he wasn't sure then,but he said he will find out for me,so when Pippi was just at the vet the other day,Dr Steven said he found a place,but they also said it's not really worth doing it now,so two people have said the same thing.

There's gotta be something i can do

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Nov 17, 2007)

I forgot to mention,that when Pippi had a urinalysis done a couple of days ago,it showed up with no infections,or blood,just an overly full bladder.


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## MsBinky (Nov 17, 2007)

Can he be treated for EC safely even without doing the test? I am asking because EC is pretty serious and it can attack the system in various ways... I hope Pippi gets better soon ray:


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## Pipp (Nov 17, 2007)

I don't think theycan confirm EC, but they can rule it out. But if its a hassle getting the test, it's probably not worth it. 

It is worth it and safe enough to treat for it regardless, though. Many vets will start a regime right off the bat before any tests are in. The short term effects are pretty safe. 

I guess it could be a mechanical problem, but I do wonder about the one kidney being larger than the other. I can't imagine it beingcoincidental. 

I'll ask around, maybe on Etherbun. Not sure who's already commented on Pippi's problems here. Randy? Ivory? Pam?



sas :clover:


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 17, 2007)

It could just be a problem with function. that's why I wonder if there isn't something they could give her.


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## cheryl (Nov 17, 2007)

Ms Binky,

Pippi has only been treated with the 30 day course of Panacur(Fenbendazole),i asked Dr Lee what happens next after Pippi has finished his Panacur..he said that there isn't much more i can do after that...i don't know if that is right or not.

Also i was wondering if EC can damage the bladder in any way?,if anyone knows

Yeah Sas..i have been wondering about that kidney being bigger than the other,that seems pretty weird to me

He is still not able to put any weight on, he's still very skinny,no matter what i try to give him to fatten him up

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Nov 18, 2007)

Well there is some underlying problem with Pippi..just don't know what, but with the amount of tests he has had,you would think the vet would at least find something.

Of course he will be going back to the vet,he has an appoitment to go soon anyway for his check up..oh we almost live there anyway...but i don't know what else the vet can do..that hasn't already been done :?

You know..i was looking through Pippi's reciepts yesterday and i counted that he had 7 urinalysis's done :shock:

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Nov 18, 2007)

Pippi is on baytril at the moment..0.4mls once a day..he used to be so good with taking his medicine..even though i had to mix it with a bit of diluted cordial...and all i had to do was kneel on the floor and he would put his two little paws on my legs and take his medicine that way.....Today the little bugger is having nothing to do with it at all!....so now my son has to hold him for me.


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## Haley (Nov 18, 2007)

Poor Pippi (and poor Cheryl)

I wish there was more I could do to help. I'll be praying for your boy. I know how frustrating (and expensive)it is to know somethings wrong but have your vet be unable to diagnose it.

*hugs*

Haley


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## LuvaBun (Nov 19, 2007)

Oh Cheryl, I've no advice /suggestions to add, but just to let you know I am thinking of you and Pippi and keeping you in my thoughts and prayers :hug:

Jan


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## cheryl (Nov 19, 2007)

Thankyou Haley and Jan :hug:

This is hard for me to go through this with Pippi,and with everything else that has happened..i just want to have a rest now...i wish it would all just stop!

There has to be a vet that know's what is wrong with Pippi!

I think i will just take Pippi to see Dr Lee again on Thursday...he's got everything there of Pippi's...he was supposed to have an appoitment with the other Dr next week...i will still keep that appoitment at the moment though.

I will ask him a few more questions

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Nov 19, 2007)

Sorry double post...at least i didn't do 9 this time lol


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## Ivory (Nov 19, 2007)

Oversized bladder...is it possible he's just stuck up with stones or something of that nature?


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## cheryl (Nov 19, 2007)

Ivory,sometimes i wish that was the case at least then i would know what's wrong....he's had two scans to check for stones :?


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## cheryl (Nov 19, 2007)

In the first scan that Dr Lee took of Pippi's bladder,he said that there were lots of sandy particles in his bladder,but he said that his diet could be contributing to that,but he alsosaid that they are so tiny that they should be able to pass by themselves...and all i had to really do is change his diet

Pippi was still having issues,so Dr Lee did another scan some time later on his bladder againbut it still showed that there was no stone,i cannot remember if he mentioned about the sandy particles.

But both scans have showed that he has no stone...but i'm wondering if maybe something has just been missed somewhere

I feel like i'm on a round a bout..i just keep going round and round in circles

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Nov 21, 2007)

Well i have just come back from the vets...without Pippi in tow...i had to leave him at the surgery...Dr Lee will be putting him under and he's going to insert a catheter into his bladder.

Please keep Pippi in your thoughts today...he's so skinny and fragile..anything can happen

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Nov 21, 2007)

Also just to add to my previous post......Dr Lee was saying that if Pippi's bladder is fine inside..then it 'might' just be the muscles that aren't working properly...and if that is the case then the Dr can give him medication for that.

Cheryl


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## Ivory (Nov 21, 2007)

Best of luck with Pippi, I hope the catheter helps!


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## cheryl (Nov 21, 2007)

Thanks heaps Ivory.....i am so hoping that this works..my fingers are crossed..but the worst part is the waiting to hear some news....the waiting is terrible!

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Nov 22, 2007)

Well it is now 2:45pm and still no news..Pippi's appoitment was at 11:40am this morning....i have to go and pick up Jeremy from school soon,i think i may give the veta call after we come home...i'm worrying to much

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Nov 22, 2007)

Ok,i just got the call from Dr Lee....and it's not really good news at all...Dr Lee found nothing at all...he said that when he inserted the catheter,his urine came out fine,but he had a hell of a lot of stored up wee though...i already knew that though..as you can feel his bladder swell up

There is no reason for Pippi not to be able to do a wee properly...but something is wrong!

So Dr Lee mentioned about that medication i was talking aboutin one of my previous posts...and there is still more bad news...the medicine is not recommended for bunnies....but as Dr Lee said..i really don't have any other options rightnow..we have been through everything!

So i will get the name ofthe medicinetonight when i pick up Pippi,maybe someone has heard of it....maybe not either.

Now i have exhausted all of my options with Pippi....he's had numerous blood tests..scans..xrays,he's been operated on and now that's it 

Dr Lee still seems to think that EC has been causing all these problems with Pippi..he seems to think it's neurological (sp)

The most extreme bad news..is putting Pippi to sleep....i knew that i was losing him slowley...i just knew it! :tears2:

Cheryl


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 22, 2007)

I'm sorry Cheryl. I hate to hear this.

I wondered if there was a medicine to help them somehow. There is a medicine that helps people not pee and one that helps them pee...... usually it has to do with a hormone we have..... but if it's neurological - I just don't know how that would work. 

Anyhow, I wish there was something they could do. I'm not real educated on EC yet and it scares me. I hope you find an answer other than putting him down. 

:hug:


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## cheryl (Nov 22, 2007)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> I hope you find an answer other than putting him down.


Penni...i don't want to put him to sleep you know...but i don't know what else to do now


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## Pipp (Nov 22, 2007)

Aw Cheryl, so sorry. :sad:

You'll do whatever's best for Pippi.And it will be the right thing. :hug1



sas :tears2:


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## AngelnSnuffy (Nov 22, 2007)

Oh Cheryl, no. I will be praying for Your Pippi...ray:.


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## cheryl (Nov 22, 2007)

I'm leaving home soon to go and pick Pippi up..it's now 5:30pm..i will leave here about 6:00pm........when Dr Lee called before...Pippi was just waking up and he was still groggy.

I just want to go and pick him up from the vetand just cuddle him...i have been through so much with Pippi 

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Nov 22, 2007)

My Pippi boy...


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## cheryl (Nov 22, 2007)

Pippi's home!

His eyes are still very watery...but he was eating hay on the way home..yay!

As soon as i let him out of his basket..he went straight to the water bowl...he was so thirsty...poor little guy.



Well i have the name of this medicine...it's...Bethanechol...Hydrochloride...."Urocarb"

So i'm wondering has anyone heard of this?...Dr Lee won't give it to me yet



Edited to add..that medicine has been used in cats and dogs..it is suppose to strenghten the muscles


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## cheryl (Nov 22, 2007)




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## Offspring2099 (Nov 22, 2007)

Poor little guy, sorry Im clueless on the subject. Sending the best wishes your way.


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## Flashy (Nov 22, 2007)

*big hugs to you both*

I can't really offer any comforting words because most likely nothing would help when you have reached this stage.

I truly hope that med works for him, but make sure that you take loads of pics and spend lots of time with him and stuff just incase. I know you know all that anyway because of other recent tragic circumstances.

You know where I am if you want a chat or anything.


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## cheryl (Nov 22, 2007)

*Thankyou offspring..Pippi needs all the bestwishes he can get at the moment*



*Flashy wrote: *


> *big hugs to you both*
> 
> I can't really offer any comforting words because most likely nothing would help when you have reached this stage.
> 
> ...




Tracey...i'm just hoping i can find some info on it...this is my last thing to try,but if i try this medicine it could make him sick..or it could kill him......but like Dr Lee said..i don't really have no other options....it's hard to know what to do..you know...it's just hard

Thanks heaps Tracey

Cheryl


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## Flashy (Nov 22, 2007)

I'll have a search on the UK pharmaceutical sites to see if there is anything there. I'll let you know if there is, and also,if I do find anything, if you want me to, I can e-mail them to ask if they know anything about use in rabbits.

Sit tight!


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## cheryl (Nov 22, 2007)

Thanks so much Tracey....that would be awesome!

Cheryl


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## Flashy (Nov 22, 2007)

I used this site http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Compendium/Overview/

I did a search for 'Bethanechol Hydrochloride' and also 'Urocarb' and over here Urocarb is not Bethanechol Hydrochloride. Urocarb is Bethanechol Chloride, which sounds similar but has a different makeup with the elements that are in it.

I searched Bethanechol Hydrochloride and there is no use in animals that I can find. I went through the main search engine that directs to the smaller companies and it didn't recognise it. But in people it is used for bladder problems, and also as an anti-depressant (so you could have a REALLY happy bunny), and I know that some anti-deps are used for bladder problems so then I went that way, but couldn't find anything useful there either.

The name 'urocarb' showed no results at all with the animal related manufacturers.

Then I went back and started with Bethanechol Chloride and that was a no show for animal stuff too.

Sorry that was very useless, presumably it's not registered over here? Maybe someone not in the UK might have some luck with info in their country.


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## cheryl (Nov 22, 2007)

Thanks so much for your help anyway Tracey..that was just nice of you :hug:

Cheryl


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## Bo B Bunny (Nov 22, 2007)

*I just want to kiss the screen! Look at that little mouth! I sure hope you can try to medicine. I mean, if the other alternative is putting him down, I would go for the medicine!*

*cheryl wrote: *


>


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## cheryl (Nov 22, 2007)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> *I sure hope you can try to medicine. I mean, if the other alternative is putting him down, I would go for the medicine!*



Dr Lee was saying that he could always give Pippi a lower dose,the thing is also that it can upset the stomache,i just wish all this stuff wasn't happening

Cheryl


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## SOOOSKA (Nov 22, 2007)

Oh Cheryl Pippi is so cute, I love the last picture you posted. Look athis cute little nose and lips. Give him a BIG :big kiss:kiss from me.

I will say many prayers for Pippi and you.

Get better soon Pippi.

Susanray:


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## cheryl (Nov 22, 2007)

Oh Susan,i can smother him in lots and lots of kisses for you...no problem 



Penni..i think it is worth the risk to try the meds...it may just work...who knows

Cheryl


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Nov 23, 2007)

Thinking of you and Pippi, Cheryl.:hug:


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## cheryl (Nov 30, 2007)

Oh my gosh..i'm shaking like anything here....Pippi is here in the kitchen with me,and i had just picked him up to give him a quick cuddle..and then i put him down,and he started to freak out,hekept runningaround in circles until i put my hand on him to stop him,and then hekept moving his head in a weird way,like bobbing it up and down....i don't know what's happening to him...he was disoriented,he didn't know where he was,he didn't seem to know anything was around him.....he just looked confused.

I have calmed him down a bit,but he's still making these kind of jerking movements with his head...i have also been noticing his left leg is getting worse..he fell over today..and it looks like the leg is ready to give in 

What he did tonight really scared me

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Nov 30, 2007)

I just made him a nice comfy spot,and at the moment he's just sitting there,he's still moving his head in a weird way......he also will not accept any food...i tried but he wouldn't take it..not even a piece of fruit


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## JadeIcing (Nov 30, 2007)

Hey Cheryl. I am here for you. :hug:


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Nov 30, 2007)

Oh Cheryl - that must have been terrifying for you!:?Is he doing any better now?

Thinking of you.:hug2:


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## cheryl (Nov 30, 2007)

That was pretty weird what Pippi did last night,it just frightened me because i didn't know what he was doing....i had just put him down when all of a sudden hekept running around in circles..and then when i got him to stop he then startedbobbing his head up and down and also making these jerking movements with his head...why would he do that?

I sat with him and just tried to soothe him all morning...i finally went to bed at 3:30am,and then i felt guilty leaving him....i got up at 6:00am..and Pippi is still here thankgoodness!,but he's kinda leaning into the wall a bit in a odd way.

I don't know what happened toPippi last night...

Cheryl


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## AngelnSnuffy (Nov 30, 2007)

Oh Cheryl, I'm so sorry I missed your post last night. That had to be very, very scary! Why don't you pm randy, he might have some ideas of what is happening. You poor thing, Cheryl, and poor, poor Pippi. We're here for you Cheryl:hug:.


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## Snuggys Mom (Nov 30, 2007)

Oh, Cheryl. I'm so sorry you and Pippi have to go through this. 

When my Baby girl was sick, she did strange, repetitive movements with her head and paws. The vet suspected EC with her as well and said it was just a neurological symptom.

ray:

Praying for Pippi,

Laura


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## cheryl (Nov 30, 2007)

Thanks Crystal and Laura 

Baby was such a special little girl who i always adored :hearts

I just went and checked on Pippi,he's in the loungeroom...i haven't seen him hop since i've been up this morning..and i have been up for just over an hour now...so i picked him up...i didn't want to because i was worried he would have done the same thing again as last night.....he's completely weird...his eyes were moving back and forth really fast,like darting movements..his eyeshave never done that before,he also tried to fight to get down..and then when i put him down..he ran of very fast behind the lounge,he was moving his head in that weird way,but not as bad as last night..it was just slightly

Before Pippi had that episode last night...i noticed he seemed a bit quiet

This is definitely strange behaviour..that's come on suddenly..Pippi is definitelynot himself at the moment 

Cheryl


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## AngelnSnuffy (Nov 30, 2007)

Cheryl, have you called your vet to see what he says could be going on here? Is it Saturday for you? I'd be freaking out if it was me:?.


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## cheryl (Nov 30, 2007)

Yes it's saturday morning here...the vet isn't open yet

I know i am sh*t scared for Pippi at the moment...he's definitely not himself

It just happened all of a sudden last night:shock:...he was ok that morning....but ihave beennoticing his left side seems to be getting weaker 

Cheryl


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## AngelnSnuffy (Nov 30, 2007)

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you and Pippi. I hope the vet opens soon. I'm thinking of you guys.:hug:


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## cheryl (Nov 30, 2007)

The vet will be open in another hour...it's 9:00am here at the moment

I just syringed this glucose drink that i made up for Pippi...he took that ok

Thanks Crystal

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Nov 30, 2007)

Pippi's eyes are acting very weird...he can see..i'm sure of that..but when he looks it's like as if he's having trouble focusing,his eyes keep moving

Cheryl


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## AngelnSnuffy (Nov 30, 2007)

:?:tears2: *Hugs*


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## cheryl (Nov 30, 2007)

Ok...just rang the vet and the earliest i can get Pippi in is 2:10 pm this afternoon


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## cheryl (Nov 30, 2007)

Well Pippi and me are about to leave for the vet

Please keep Pippi in your thoughts 

Cheryl


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## Pipp (Nov 30, 2007)

ray::clover: ray::clover:ray::clover:ray::clover:ray::clover:ray::clover:ray::clover:ray::clover:ray::clover:ray::clover:


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## AngelnSnuffy (Nov 30, 2007)

ray: Thinking of you guys Cheryl. Good Luck. I hope for the best for Pippi.


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Dec 1, 2007)

How is Pippi, Cheryl?ray:


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## cheryl (Dec 1, 2007)

Well i took Pippi to the vet and...I don't really have any answers though(sort of)none that i already know of anyway....the Dr checked Pippi over....he did notice Pippi's left side because of the way Pippi was sitting,he's getting noticeably worse,he checked his leg over...he stretched it out...and he could find nothing wrong with it,Pippi had his leg checked out a few months ago as well, when i first noticed him kinda dragging it and i didn't know why.

The Dr then checked Pippi's eyes..his eyeballs were still moving sideways really quick,especially when he tries looking at me......he can see though,but it's like he has no control of the movement of his eyes.

I told the Dr what had happened last night,how Pippi freaked out....at the moment Pippi is in a bad way..the Dr is not very comfortable doing any tests on Pippi at the moment....he said that we have covered more or less everything anyway.

Poor Pippi..he just wanted to get back in his basket,he would not sit still which usually he's pretty good,but today he just wanted to play up,he's just not himself at the moment.

The Dr was saying that the symptoms Pippi is starting to show is probably due to having EC, that it's probably starting to attack his brain(nervous system)now(hence the neurological symptoms he's suddenly showing....he said that there isn't really much i can do for him but just to make him as comfortable as i can...he actually means Pippi won't be here for long.

I asked him is it worth a try to give him another course of Panacur....he said it's probably not worth it,but i can always just give it a try if i want to....so i'm thinking i might give that a go......the Dr also got some fluids into him by injection,he also gave me more baytril..at first he was going to give me Vibravet again but that stuff is awful and hard to measure,if anything i would rather the baytril,i don't know why though because he is still on baytril at the moment..i guess he just wants him to take it for longer.

There has to beSOMETHING that i can do :?

This god awful nasty parasite is taking my little boy bit by bit 

Cheryl


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## LuvaBun (Dec 1, 2007)

Oh Cheryl, I am so sorry for you and Pippi . It's so frustrating that nothing seemsto be having any positive effect. I am keeping you in my prayers!

Jan


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## cheryl (Dec 1, 2007)

Thanks Jan :hug:

And yes,it's very fustrating,i cannot tell you just how much this situation with Pippi is stressing me out,it has for over 7 months now....i keep taking him to the vet for all his problems,but i go home with still unanswered questions..and then i start tofeel angry...like i want to scream really loud...or better still..strangle the Dr and make him tell me what is exactly wrong with Pippi and that there is something that can be done for him :?

Pippi is doing a bit better this morning....he finally ate a few pellets...yesterday he wouldn't eat anything,he just didn't want to eat,he would drink though,so that was good...he's eating slowly..just not like his usual self..but at least he ate something..he hasn't been moving his head in that weird way..but i can see that he is still not quite himself....he's more quiet now.

Pippi has to go back to the vet this coming thursday,to see how he is going


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## AngelnSnuffy (Dec 1, 2007)

Cheryl, I just cannot imagine how you must be feeling. This is very frustrating indeed. Are there any other vets you could see for a second opinion or is this guy the best around?

I really feel for you hon. Poor Pippi. If he lets up on the eating, you can always syringe him something too. Water too if he's not drinking enough.


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## cheryl (Dec 1, 2007)

*AngelnSnuffy wrote: *


> Are there any other vets you could see for a second opinion



Yeah..i was actually thinking i might take him to see Dr Steven at the other vet,and see what he thinks...i cannot give up on Pippi now..i have come to far just to say that's it!

So we'll see what this other vet says

Also..i'm still confused as to what happened to Pippi the other night...i know the Dr said that it's neurological....but wouldn't it happen all the time?....the Dr was saying he can have 'attacks'...so it can happen again unexpectedly anytime

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Dec 1, 2007)

Look at what i just read about the twitching eyes...i don't know how i missed this before..

_Some experts feel that the majority of rabbits who have been exposed to EC do not suffer any health consequences as a result of this exposure. Others feel that EC is responsible for a whole host of health problems, including renal failure, convulsions, torticollis (head tilt or wry neck), hind limb weakness or loss of balance, nystagmus (eye twitching) and incontinence. Rabbits affected by EC before they are born (via the placenta) may develop lesions around the eyes, which sometimes cause visible white spots in the eye. _



_Just like Pippi's eye's :shock:_


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## cheryl (Dec 1, 2007)

*AngelnSnuffy wrote: *


> Are there any other vets you could see for a second opinion or is this guy the best around?



I have not found a great bunny savvy vet yet..Dr Lee sees bunnies..but not for the problems like Pippi's....Pippi has been seeing Dr Lee for over seven months now...and i'm starting to slowlyfeel let down by him......maybe it's just the way i'm feeling...i don't know.

But this is why i ask for advice here...because maybe there might be something that someone suggests andi can go back and talk to Pippi's Dr about it

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Dec 2, 2007)

I've beena member at Etherbun for quite a while now,i'm sure even before i was a member here,i 've never posted anything though,but have just read posts from the outside...anyway..i hadn't been on there for ages...so because i'm looking around for anything i can on EC...you know peoples experiences and stuff....so i was reading through some posts just beforewhen i came across a post about a bunny with EC...this person was saying that she got her bunny tested for EC when she noticed that her bunny was running around in circles and bobbing his head up and down....this is exactly what Pippi was doing :shock:.

You know..reading about someone elses bunny that has had the same symptoms makes me feel more comforted..and less alone in all this......because this is the first time i have ever dealt with EC...and it's all new to me...and it's also very hard because the vets that i have been to..don't really know much about EC or really how to help Pippi now.

But i just thought that post i readwas quite interesting

Anyway,since Pippi had that attack the other night..he hasn't really been the same since...he's so quiet now,he's fallen over a few times today to

I started him on the Panacur again anyway


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## tonyshuman (Dec 2, 2007)

I don't have any experience with EC, but I wanted to say that it makes sense that he'd have those symptoms with it. It seems like he has vertigo, which is a problem with the inner ear, which has sense organs that tell us which way is up and if we're moving. Vertigo is a problem with them--the sense organs are telling the brain that he's moving when he isn't, and that up is down, and all of that. That's why his eyes are moving and he does those crazy moving about things--he's trying to figure out which way is up. These sense organs have a lot of neurons to tell them what's going on, and since EC can have an effect on the nervous system, it would make sense that vertigo would be a symptom. Now this is based on what I know of neurobiology, not of animal health, so it may not be valid in this case, but it makes sense to me. Humans with neurological issues can get vertigo too.

Hugs to you both, you and Pippi are very brave. **sending healing wishes**


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## cheryl (Dec 2, 2007)

Thanks so muchTonyshuman ....that makes more sence to me now...when i took Pippi to the vet last Thursday,the Dr never even explained it to me like that...he was more or less saying that whats going on is justneurological because of him having EC..he also said a whole lot of other stuff as well

It's just fustrating trying to get some help

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Dec 2, 2007)

I just left a message on a aussie rabbit list

Maybe someone there can point me to a good bunny savvy vet...Pippi desperately needs it now....i seem to be getting no where with the others

I'm sure that there has to be something else thatPippi can have other than the Panacur

Cheryl


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## ~Bracon~ (Dec 2, 2007)

ray:


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## cheryl (Dec 2, 2007)

Thanks Bracon...Pippi needs all the prayers at the moment



I also started to notice something strange about the way Pippi was holding his head yesterday,it looked like to me that he was holding his head just slightly to one side,i didn't know if it was justmy imagination though because he can put it normal :?...but because it was only slight,i asked the kids....but all they said is that i'm over worrying about him...i took himoutside yesterday eveningfor a little fresh air and i just took a picture of him..i will post it soon

Cheryl


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## Pipp (Dec 2, 2007)

A w w w wCheryl ... I know howhard this is for you. 

I've lost track of the thread, but I assume you've goneover pretty much everything thatcan be done, no? 

I'm sure this has come up, but from what I've read in the Library, it sounds like Pippi may besuffering from very early stages of meningo-encephalitis, a brain inflamation, which is often the case in EC bunnies. 

Fenbendazol (Panacur) is the drug of choice for EC, and experimentation of very advanced stage bunnies has often proved productive with Pyrimethamine. That's the info from MediRabbit. 

On a personal note, not sure if this has come up or not, or if it's at all effective, but I'd recommend a fairly high dose of Flax seeds, because they contain the B-vitamins and most importantly FolicAcid which may prove helpful. The Medirabbit page has more info on Folic acid. 

I'mnot sure if you've discussed these treatments with your vet or not, but not sure another vet can really do much more. Maybe a phone consultation? 

Here's the link, tho I'm sure you've seen it before,and I know Randy's been on the case, so... 

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/cuniculi/pyrimethamine.pdf

sas ray::clover:


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## cheryl (Dec 2, 2007)

Sas,yes Dr Lee has gone over absolutely everything...you know i always found it weird with Pippi having all these tests without anything significant showing up..it never even dawned on the Dr either..why was Pippi having all these symptoms though..it was just weird..for months we had been trying to find out what was wrong,until we eventually worked it out...the culprit was EC all along.

I have also just found out that Pippi could have taken the Panacur for longer than the 21 days 

Oh and i will most definitely run out and buy Pippi some flax seeds also

Thanks Sas..your the best

Anyway here is the picture of Pippi that i took yesterday evening..i don't know if he's holding his head to the side a bit :?







Cheryl


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## cheryl (Dec 3, 2007)

Well it's definitelyback to the vet tomorrow..instead of the Thursday which is when i was supposed to take Pippi back to the vet,i will takePippi to see Dr Steven this time,as i have also just found out that with rapid eyemovement comes dizziness...Dr Lee never told me that.

But he can hop around all right,he hops over to get a drink,or something to eat,he's not very stable on his legs but that was no different than before,the only difference now is his left leg which is starting to get even worse...but he can hop...he doesn't look dizzy to me though.

Oh well..we'll see what this Dr says tomorrow

Cheryl


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## AngelnSnuffy (Dec 3, 2007)

Good Luck Cheryl and Pippi. I'm sorry Cheryl you're having to deal with this and not get the answers you need.ray:


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## cheryl (Dec 3, 2007)

I took Pippi to the vet this morning...i was supposed to see Dr Steven...but instead i got Dr Alison.

I told her about the other night about what happened with Pippi...and i asked her if there is something he can take...she said not really...and that with EC there is nothing much more i can do for him........then why do i keep reading about everyone else is able to get their bunny treated..but notme!!!....why!!....all the vets i have seen keep telling me there is nothing i can do now!....i keep getting the run around...and i'm sick of it!!

Maybe it's best just to put him to sleep,it's not fair for Pippi!!...because nobody is helping me with this!!...i feel angry now....emotionally frustrated!!

Pippi had to stay at the surgery today...becauseshe wants to see how he acts an everything..she just wants to watch him.

I tell ya..i was that let down that i just cried all the way home

I feel like nobody is taking me serious!!!!

:bigtears:big tears..because that is how i'm feeling


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## cheryl (Dec 4, 2007)

I picked Pippi up at 6:00pm this evening..it is now 10:15pm and Pippi has eaten and everything..now he's just hanging out in the loungeroom.

Anyway when i picked him up,Dr Alison had already gone,so i spoke with the nurse.

Pippi has a very slight head tilt,it's only just noticeable..so no it wasn't my imagination..The Dr hadchecked his ears and had seen no sign of infection,they weren't red insideor they didn't have any puss,so she said his ears are fine.

She ALSO said that it's just neurological because of him having EC :?

The only thing she did was give Pippi a dexadreson 2mg injection,and that's basically it.

Now i forgot to ask the nurse,she probably wouldn't have known anyway,but i've started Pippi on another course of Panacur,but i'm not sure if it will have any affect with that injection he had today.......i don't know if anyone would have any idea or not

Cheryl


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## Flashy (Dec 4, 2007)

*hug* I'm sorry stuff is bad. I don't think it's that people aren't taking you seriously, I think it's because maybe Australia doesn't have the expertise, or drugs authorised, that other places do(such as the US) which can limit things. It does sound like they are trying, but poor Pippi is too ill.

There is a drug just come out here (its another version of panacur) that says it can cure all EC until the rabbit is suffering bad symptoms, by then the disease can't be stopped. Maybe that's the problem? That Pippi went undiagnosed for so long? And don't blame yourself for that (I have a feeling you might).

You know where I am (even if you don't want to e-mail, you can always PM me  ). I think about you and Pippi everyday, even if I am not about on the forum.

Hang in there.

x


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## cheryl (Dec 4, 2007)

*Flashy wrote: *


> There is a drug just come out here (its another version of panacur) that says it can cure all EC until the rabbit is suffering bad symptoms, by then the disease can't be stopped. Maybe that's the problem? That Pippi went undiagnosed for so long? And don't blame yourself for that (I have a feeling you might).



Tracey..yeah of course i've been blaming myself..i don't know why but i am..of course you knew i would blame myself.

I know i was trying to find answers for Pippi's problem's for over seven months,if only the vet had an idea a long time ago...i know he was doing the right thing though,doing all those tests to rule out everything..it was only when everything was finally ruled out that Dr Lee mentioned about EC because he was having symptom's but not much was showing up on his tests...and soi went online to find out more about it..and that's when it really hit me and everything just fell into place..oh and also Randy confirmed it for me to.So i know that we lost a LOT of valuable time...so yeah..i know it's to late now.....Pippi is starting to showmore and more symptom's now

Cheryl


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## pla725 (Dec 4, 2007)

I told you about my experience with this awful disease with my Simon. I lost Simon to this disease. I too feel that I waited too long. The what ifs still linger. I know you are trying your best to do everything for Pippi. It does come to a point when you have to let go. I know it tough to hear and accept. Pippi will give you the sign when he is ready to go. PM me anytime and I will help you through this.


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## pumpkinandwhiskersmom (Dec 4, 2007)

Cheryl,

I'm so very sorry that Pippi and you are having such a bad time of it...just remember that we're praying for both of youray:. You've tried so hard to get answers, and it stinks that sometimes it feels like no one who could do anything to help is listening....please try to see all that you've done for Pippi, and enjoy that sweet little one....


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## Flashy (Dec 4, 2007)

*cheryl wrote: *


> *Flashy wrote: *
> 
> 
> > There is a drug just come out here (its another version of panacur) that says it can cure all EC until the rabbit is suffering bad symptoms, by then the disease can't be stopped. Maybe that's the problem? That Pippi went undiagnosed for so long? And don't blame yourself for that (I have a feeling you might).
> ...



I do think it's natural to feel guilt and blame yourself, but that doesn't mean it is justified.

The things you need to look at are a, have you done everything you can to help Pippi? and b, have you been there for him and loved him through this giving him what he needed? If both those answers are yes, then you need not feel any guilt.

Ok, so the diagnosis was delayed, but that's not your fault, it should be the vet that should be able to look at those things. That is where the forum comes into it's own because it is a whole cluster of people from all over the world with different areas of knowledge and expertise, so it's really good you are back here 

It might be too late to cure him, but you can make him happy and enjoy the last time he has left. In a way that is more important than making him better because he can't be made better, but he can be made happy. I know thats a harsh way to look at it, but I know that when Pippi dies he will die knowing he has been loved and having had a great life. I can't think of a better way to die than being that happy and loved.

*hugs*


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## cheryl (Dec 4, 2007)

pla725..it's just so sad..but i guess you know the sadness all to well 

Thanks pumpkinandwhiskersmom,i appreciate that

Tracey..gosh poor Pippi has had so much done to him,the Dr didn't really leave any tests out except the EC test...so yes i have done all i can for him...that's just what has got me more stressed out now because i know that there isn't really much i can do for him...we have more or less come to an end....but that doesn't mean that i'm ready to give up just yet...like pla725 said,he will let me know when he's ready...but the only thing is i'm scared i will miss that sign.But Pippi is a fighter..he has fought this for a long time now.

But now ever since he had that 'attack',he rest's more..he can move around..he hops around....buthe's losing more strength in that darn left leg.

I took some pictures of him this morning....i will post them here later

Cheryl


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## timetowaste (Dec 4, 2007)

oh cheryl i'm so sorry. this is horrible. c'mon pippi, spin this right back around. i feel so horrible. please post pictures of the fuzzball whenever you get the chance. i love seeing him around the forum, he's so **** cute! cheryl, hang on for us here. pippi, you too.

tracy and nemo


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## cheryl (Dec 7, 2007)

Thanks Tracey,and you to Nemo :hug:



I just went out and bought Nutripet (like the usa Nutrical)i forgot all about it actually,i should have bought it a while ago now.

But i don't know how much to give him..........i don't want to give him to much and then make him sick.

So does anyone know how much i should give him?.......i thought it would be good for him because it has vitamins and stuff in it

Cheryl


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## AngelnSnuffy (Dec 7, 2007)

Hey there Cheryl. As for Nutripet, I was told once to just wipe some on the paws and they'll lick it off. I'm not sure other than that how much as I've never had to really use it, but you could do that for starters.

I wish Pippi to start feeling a bit better.:hug:


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## cheryl (Dec 7, 2007)

Thanks Crystal...i will give him just a tiny bit then.......i just thought i would ask first that's all.

Also i'm not sure if i give it to him once a day....i'm not sure if that's to much or not..or if it's ok :?

Thanks again Crystal

Cheryl


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## naturestee (Dec 8, 2007)

Hey Cheryl, you can give him a little every day. It's main use is as a supplement for animals that are ill and need some extra help.

Hugs for you and Pippi!

Edit: Another thought. I give Fey a small amount of flax and sunflower seeds to help maintain her weight and give her some extra healthy fats, as those seeds have the good kind. You could try adding a little bit to Pippi's diet. Fey only gets a tiny amount, 1/4 teaspoon daily. When I started, I only gave it to her every other day to make sure it didn't upset her stomach since she is pretty sensitive. Even at that small amount it does make some difference. The fatty acids in those seeds are great for the heart, brain, and fur.


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## cheryl (Dec 8, 2007)

Thanks heaps Angela...i could give you a big hug at the moment because i never thought of sunflower seeds..... Sas has mentioned the flax seeds to me..which again i never thought of......i am just so grateful to you guys!...thankyou!..i will go out tomorrow and get some sunflower seeds...the flax seeds i got....and he loves them!

Lucky i had asked about the nutripet because i would have given him a heap of it a few times a day...ohh and he loves it to!..thankgoodness..i was worried he wouldn't like it...i ended up putting a bit on my finger and he liked it that much that he tried to bite my finger off :shock:

Oh andthe nutripet isbrown!....i know it doesn't matter about the colour but i didn't expect it to be brown..and it had like a chocolatey kind of a smell (actually it reminded me of these little jelly baby lollies that are brown and called chicko's)

Thanks again Angela.

ps i'm going to get a picture of Pippi and his nutripet later.....he's so cute 

Cheryl


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## Leaf (Dec 9, 2007)

((hugs))

I hope things get better soon!


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## cheryl (Dec 10, 2007)

Thanks Leaf 



Well at the moment i'm happy to say that Pippi is doing better than he was just a few days ago....although i know he's never going to recover from this and itcould take him awayfrom me at any time...but that doesn't mean i'm going to give up on him.

At the moment i'm giving Pippi lots of fresh veggies dipped in water,i thought the extra water would be good for him.....he has his sunflower and flax seeds...and he also has his nutripet once a day.

He is still on the daily treatment of 1.1/2mlsPanacur and 0.4mls Baytril

Oh and i give him this homemadeGlucose drink that the vet told me to give Pippi months ago...i give him a few syringe fulls of that as well

I'm just trying to do what i can for Pippi

Since he has a bladder issue that cannot be resolved..i have to give him a butt bath a couple times a day......then every 3 weeks he goes to the vet to be clipped and washed....i was putting cornflour on Pippi for protection..and two weeks ago when he went to the vet to be clipped and washed..the vet gently told me not to use cornflour because it just madehis buttall gluggy

He's still unsteady on his feet(always will be now)...he heard me coming into the loungeroom todayand he went to turn around and he lost his balance and stumbled just a bit....he's still very thin,no matter what he eats..he just cannot put any weight on at all,he's so delicate like a little china doll



You know..one thing that i'm noticing is that Pippi seems to go through rough stages and then he's fine for a while until he goes through a bad stage again...and when i say fine i don't mean he's perfect(he never will be anymore)....he's still very not well all the time..but he just seems to have his good days and his bad days

Cheryl


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## Flashy (Dec 10, 2007)

I think Randy says that rabbits with EC go in cycles of good times and bad times, I'm glad Pippi seems good in himself at the moment

Instead of using cornflower, could you smear something like vaseline on his skin to use as a water barrierso he doesn't get burns or anything? Only a thin layer might help and because it would surround his bits, it woudln't be on the top so shouldn't clig him up or cause any problems like that. I don't know if you have sudocreme over there but we used that when Sunshine went bald and mankyon his belly and it protected him really well and all his fur grew back properly and it protected him from the urine he was sitting in.

I have to confess, when I see this thread at the top I get scared to read it incase Pippi has died, it's nice to get a more positive update, it shows that Pippi is such a fighter.

Thinking of you both.


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## cheryl (Dec 10, 2007)

*Flashy wrote: *


> I think Randy says that rabbits with EC go in cycles of good times and bad times, I'm glad Pippi seems good in himself at the moment


No wonder..i have noticed this for a little while now...i know when he's having a bad day and i especially know when he's having a good day....when he has his bad moments..i feel really awful for him...but then he will have a few good days and it just makes my heart do a little hop to see him feeling better....at the moment he's kinda like a sea- saw...he has his up moment's and he has his down moments.

But Pippi sure is a fighter!

Also i'm sure we dohave sudacream over here...have to check in the chemist

Thanks Tracey 

Cheryl


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## pla725 (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm glad Pippi seems to be doing better and continuesto fight.


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## cheryl (Dec 14, 2007)

Pla725..Pippi is just amazing

Pippi is hating the butt baths that he has to have..he used to be ok before,so i think he has had enough now...tonight i just struggled like anything,he just wouldn't keep still,usually my son will hold him while i wash and blow dry...(not me..... Pippi lol ),but my kids are not home to help...Anthony's at a friends house and Jeremy is at his cousins house for the night...i can do it on my own but it's so much easier with a bit of help...anyway he hates the hair dryer and he just wouldn't let me dry him....i did manage to get a few pictures of Pippi while i was drying him though(trying to dry him lol)...oh gosh we finally succeeded in the end,i just wish they didn't take so long to dry :shock:....put some baby nappy rash cream on him and of he went to sulk in the loungeroom.

He had a pretty quiet day today,he didn't really move around much....i took him outside early in the morning for a while,he seemed to enjoy that...he just nibbled on the grass for a bit..i stayed out there with him for about an hour and a half then we came inside....he just didn't seem to happy today......he's eating and drinking fine so everything is ok in that part.

Back to the vet next week for a check up

Cheryl


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## Flashy (Dec 14, 2007)

*hugs to you both*

Thinking of you.

(sorry that's not very useful)


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## Haley (Dec 14, 2007)

Oh Cheryl, Pippi is just amazing. I havent posted in here for a while but Ive been thinking about him a lot. 

Youre both very strong. Give him kisses from me and tell him we're praying for him from across the globe. 

:hug:


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## pumpkinandwhiskersmom (Dec 14, 2007)

Give him kisses from me and tell him we're praying for him from across the globe. 

:hug:.....DITTO from here in PA.....what a resilient spirit Pippi has, not to mention his mama as well. Take care!


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## cheryl (Dec 14, 2007)

Thanks guys..i will be sure to tell him...and i'll give him lots of kisses too...he loves that anyway,i will kiss his nose and he will keep leaning his head forward for more...he's just the cutest little thing....and yes i'm still amazed at how willing he is to fight...it was touch and go for so long in the beginning when he was having all this treatment done to him.



And i just have to say something that i forgot to post before....

A couple weeks ago when i was using cornflour for Pippi's bottom..i think i was putting on to much because after i put him down he would hop off and flick his feet and all you would see is the dust from the cornflour...and i would always know where Pippi was..all i had to do was follow the cornflour trail....hehe and at the end of that trail i was more or less guaranteed a little pile of cornflour just sitting there....i got a bit carried away with the cornflour i guesslol....but nowi keep picturing Pippi in my mind now with him flicking the cornflour of...it was funny...it's something that you just had to be there to see it....i keep giggling about every now and again lol.

Oh and another thing i forgot to say about the flax seeds.....when i went to get flax seeds for Pippi from the health food store,i asked if they have flax seeds,and she says that they are also called Linseeds.....so we call them Linseeds over here..just thought i would mention that


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## pla725 (Dec 14, 2007)

I'm glad to see thatPippi is holding his own.


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## cheryl (Dec 16, 2007)

Ugh!...Pippi is not eating now....he was ok this morning and today..now this evening he don't want anything to eat..i just tried giving him a jatzbiscuit..the funny thing was,he took a tiny bite and chewed it really slow,that's not usual for Pippi any other time,then he turned away from the rest of the biscuit...i then went and got him some linseeds..nope he didn't want anything to do with them either and he loves those!...i got some pellets...no he didn't want that either....i almost had a little buffet going on....but he wouldn't touch anything.....i even tried syringing him his glucose drink which he loves,he had a tiny bit...like two drops...that's not Pippi

It's not his teeth or anything like that.

I'm hoping he's just feeling a bit off,and he'll feel better later

My poor Pippi 

Cheryl


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## Flashy (Dec 16, 2007)

I'm so sorry he's rough. Maybe he his feeling tired and it's too hard to eat.

If you have a food blender (or whatever they call those things that mix and muxh food, lol)you could blend his favourite foods to make a liquidy thing that might be easier to drink?

What about apple juice? Mine go crazy for that, or mushy banana?

It may just be he has already eaten something recently and isn't hungry right now.

Come on Pippi!


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## cheryl (Dec 16, 2007)

I hope it's nothing to worry about and that he will eat something soon,i just went and checked on him a few minutes ago and he still won't eat,Pippi would never turn his nose up at a jatz biscuit...but with the way Pippi is..everything is a worry for me...i'm just really worried about himthat's all...


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## Flashy (Dec 16, 2007)

Could he maybe be picking up on your stress?Do you get stressed around him if he won't eat? Or feels desperate or anything? If you do, he may be picking up on that. Before you go to him take some deep breaths and force yourself to be calm, no matter how uncalm you are feeling.

Also, could you try leaving some stuff outfor him and then leaving the room and leaving him to it? When mine don't eat, that seems to help them to eat because the pressure has been removed. Also, mine seem to LOVE 'sneaking' food,could you try putting it in a bowl near him or something so he thinks he is not supposed to eat it? Somehow their cheeky nature makes them want to eat more like that.


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## cheryl (Dec 16, 2007)

Yeah actually i get very stressed out when things are going wrong..i start to panic and then i just cannot rest until i know all is well again...i cannot help it..i'm a born worrier.

I guess Pippi could sense that i'm stressed but he will eat with me being there,he always has....i gave him a jatz biscuit because i know he loves them,but he just won't touch it...i just tried him again just a couple seconds ago and still no...i also left ten pellets there,so i would know if he's eaten any...but they're still there.

I hate this!


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## Flashy (Dec 16, 2007)

*hugs*It's ok to be worried, you worry because you love him. But Right now Pippi needs you to be calm and his friend. Maybe just sit with him (or sit him with you) and give him a fuss, he might sense you relaxing as you stroke him and relax himself. Then maybe he might feel more able to eat. He might just be having a bad evening though, and just needs some company. 

Other than no food, is there anything else out of place?


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## cheryl (Dec 16, 2007)

He won't drink!..he's letting it all dribble out the side of his mouth 

I have been through my bunnies having gas and GI Stasis and i was scared for them....but i'mterrified now because it's Pippi and Pippi's little body isn't strong enough...i know he has a strong spirit,but there is only so much his little body can take.....he still won't eat.

I have him on my lap at the moment

Ohh Pippi please eat for mum


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## Flashy (Dec 16, 2007)

Take some deep breaths. Even though you feel tense, force your muscles to relax. Breathe in for 4, hold for two and out for 5 and do that a few times, it should help calm you.

Can you do sub-Q fluids? could you take Pippi to the vet tonight? Or really early tomorrow?

What happens if you smear it on his paws, will he lick it off?

Hang in there.

You're not alone.

x


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## cheryl (Dec 16, 2007)

I already have the number for the emergeny clinic by my phone...just incase i need to call them....it gives me comfort knowing i have the emergency clinic but it is a 5o min drive.

I tried syringing Pippi some infacol...he let most of it dribble out though..i'm going to try again soon

Thanks Tracey


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## Flashy (Dec 16, 2007)

*hugs* You have easy reach of a vet if you need them. Keep calm and we are rooting for you both.


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## cheryl (Dec 16, 2007)

I'm just a bit frightened at the moment....usually i wouldn't worry as muchas i am now

I guess i'm not going to get much sleep tonight....it's 11:22pm here now


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## Flashy (Dec 16, 2007)

There is a big difference between not eating and drinking and fighting being forcefed.

When Flash was ill and he stopped eating and drinking, he went downhill very fast and was dead within a few hours. Might it be worth taking him to the vets tonight? For both you and him?

I know that's a bit of an about face for me but I was just thinking about it all.


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## cheryl (Dec 16, 2007)

Yeah,i know how fast they can go downhill when they stop eating and dinking...i almost lost two bunnies through GI Stasis....it's pretty scarey when they go through that.

I don't know if Pippi would be strong enough to beat something like that

But yeah..i'm thinking about that vet more and more now...i just didn't want to stress him out anymore that's all.


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## cheryl (Dec 16, 2007)

I just went and put some nutripet on Pippi's mouth....he wasn't very happy with that


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## Flashy (Dec 16, 2007)

It's hard isn't it.

When they are ill and stop eating and drinking, that might mean he is too weak to do it, or his body is shutting down (which I hope it's not).

I guess in a way it's different from 'traditional' GI stasis in that he is already weaker to start with than those who go into it because of a moult or whatever.

He might get stressed, but he is used to vets and it won't stress him too much because it is normal for him. If you don't go, and something happens to him, might you forever blame yourself for not going?


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## Flashy (Dec 16, 2007)

*cheryl wrote: *


> I just went and put some nutripet on Pippi's mouth....he wasn't very happy with that


What did he do?


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## cheryl (Dec 16, 2007)

*Flashy wrote: *


> It's hard isn't it.
> 
> When they are ill and stop eating and drinking, that might mean he is too weak to do it, or his body is shutting down (which I hope it's not).


That is the first thing i thought when he wouldn't eat..'.what if he's giving up'....i said 'please Pippi not before christmas'


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## cheryl (Dec 16, 2007)

*Flashy wrote: *


> *cheryl wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I just went and put some nutripet on Pippi's mouth....he wasn't very happy with that
> ...


He licked it of,and then he turned around...he got mad at me for doing that...but i was happy that he licked it of....i don't know if that would make much difference or not though


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## Flashy (Dec 16, 2007)

It might not be that, it might just be he needs some sub-Q or something to help him on the way.

could you maybe get him a rice sock to help him keep warm?


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## cheryl (Dec 16, 2007)

He's wrapped up on my lap at the moment....i have a heating pad that i could also use


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## Flashy (Dec 16, 2007)

I'm sure your heat is enough, you don't want to over heat him.


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## Pipp (Dec 16, 2007)

When did he last poop and pee, and how was his output? 

It's so tough to say, Dill acts like that with a gas attack, but with Pippi's history, who knows what's going on in there. 

Does he seem dizzy? Uncomfortable in any way? Can you hear his tummy making noises? How does he react to a tummy rub?

Hope he feels bettersoon



sas ray:


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## cheryl (Dec 16, 2007)

The last time i saw him eat was when i gave him some veggies around 1:00pm,i watched him eat them..he was fine....so anywhere from 1:00pm-8:00pm something happened..he was sitting by his hay..but i noticed him sitting there for longer and he just looked odd,so i went and got a biscuit straight away...my first instinct....he wanted it because he took a tiny bite and just ate it very slowly...strange...then he just wouldn't touch anything else

No he doesn't look dizzy....at least now i know what to look for...his eyes are not acting the way they were before when that first happened to him

His tummy sounds very quiet....but when i massage his tummy i can feel like little bubbles in his tummy...if that's what they are.


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## cheryl (Dec 16, 2007)

Oh well..i have his basket and everything ready,just incase.....it's 12:27am here,it couldn't have happened at a worse time


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## Pipp (Dec 16, 2007)

He honestly could just be having a gas attack. You're not hearing any gurgling? Does he seem comforted with the tummy rubs? 

When did you last see him pee and poop?



sas :?


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## cheryl (Dec 16, 2007)

I'm hoping with all my heart that it is just a gas attack.. Sas

The last time i seen him poop was around 1-2pm when he was eating his veggies,i had him on his own...he has weed because he cannot wee properly and he just does little dribbles and i seen him do it not long ago.

His tummy is not making loud noises,it's more quiet but when i massage his tummy i can feel which i think is air bubbles,i'm not sure.

I have been rocking him like a baby...i just put him back in the loungeroom with his blankets for a little while


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## Flashy (Dec 16, 2007)

How are you both doing?


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## Greta (Dec 17, 2007)

Any news? ray:


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## Flashy (Dec 17, 2007)

I really hope things are ok as they can be.

I'm really worried.

Thinking of you both.


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## cheryl (Dec 17, 2007)

Sorry i took so long in replying back but boy what a day i have had.

I wrote my last reply in Pippi's post and then i turned my pc of which was around 1:00am this morning,i then went to try Pippi with some water,but he still wouldn't drink it...i also tried to give him some more infacol but he would just let it dribble out the side of his mouth,so i sat on the lounge and watched tv for a bit while i massaged Pippi's tummy....his tummy was very quiet,there was no usual soft gurgling noises that you can usually hear in a bunnies tummy,it was just deathly quiet........i was panicking because Chockie,Cassidy and Sunny have all had GI Stasis and their stomaches went bloated and hard,like they swallowed a brick.....but i knew Pippi wasn't suffering GI Stasis though.......i know he had very bad gas

Anyway..2:30am came and he still wasn't any better....so i packed Pippi up in his basket which was already waiting just in case...and of we went to the emergency hospital.....i just didn't wan't to take the chance...because since he had bad gas..i was worried that if he didn't recover very soon then it would develop into Stasis....and i just don't think Pippi's body would be strong enough to handle something like Stasis.

We arrive at the vet....you have to ring the bell at that time of morning,this emergency vet clinic is so lovely..it's just nice!....anyway we get in to see the Dr and it's the same one i saw back in June when Sunshine had very bad Stasis...her stomache was rock hard..the vet didn't expect her to live that night.....anyway she remembered me straight away because she said that it's unusual for someone to bring in their pet rabbit at this time of morning....she said i'm very dedicated and very caring...i told her i would do anything,and i just cannot stand to see an animal in pain.

Anyway she checks Pippi's heart and lungs,they're ok....his stomache was still quiet though..so she was holding him in her arms and she was feeling his tummy and the next minute his tummy made this really loud gurgling sound...then it kept continueing for a couple minutes...it was loud!......after that she just gave Pippi a sub q injection,there was nothing else she could do for him,she also said that if Pippi makes no improvement then i have to take him back to my regular vet.

We got home sometime after 5:30am....i was so tired and just exhausted...i put Pippi in the loungeroom and made him all comfy with his blankies and stuffand i laid on the lounge and went to sleep for a little while....i woke up about 8:00am and checked Pippi....he was sitting in a differen't spot now...that was good that he had moved....i went and got him something to eat..but he still didn't want anything..i went and got him his glucose drink.....and he started drinking from the syringe!...i was so excited to at least see some progress....he was drinking again...but somehow i had to get him to eat.....all day i tried giving him this and that but no....ugh! i was ready to take him to the vet again...but he was drinking everytime i gave him some water so i was happy for that.

That sub q injection did the world of good for Pippi

And then finally around 4:00pm..i go and check to see if he's eaten the few pellets that i had left him...and they were gone!!!...so i went and got a few more and he ate those as well,boy i was just so so happy and so relieved to see him eat again 

I love my boy!


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## Flashy (Dec 17, 2007)

Thank GOD for that!

I'm so glad Cheryl :biggrin2:what a relief for you both.


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## pumpkinandwhiskersmom (Dec 17, 2007)

:great::woohooThank goodness! I was so relieved when I read your last post.....How's he doing now? Thinking of you....you are such a devoted bunnymom


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## cheryl (Dec 17, 2007)

Oh it is definitely a relief for me 

Pippi has never had gas before,he's 3 1/2 years old...so he's done pretty good....i have dealt with gas and Stasis in a couple of my other bunnies but never Pippi...and by 2:30am yesterday morning,i was getting worried....i'm so glad i got him to the vet though...i'm sure that sub q injection helped him out a bit...and the long car ride there and back

Gosh...we had a pretty rough morning...Pippi and me

I worry when the bunnies get gas,but i'm ok with it.......but Pippi is different,he's got so much going on with him...and i started to panic in case it wasn't gas and there was something else wrong....and i didn't want to leave him and wait for the normal vet to open,anything could have happened to him.

Pippi is doing good this morning,he was eating some hay,and i gave him some veggies...and yep he started eating those as well.

It's a wonderful sight..to watch a bunny eating happily after having bad gas and not eating and drinking.


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## Flashy (Dec 17, 2007)

It's great he is doing so well.

Have you thought about learning how to do sub-Q injections so that you can then do them yourself?


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## cheryl (Dec 17, 2007)

When i first posted this threadabout Pippi's problems...Randy had replied in one of his posts saying that Pippi should be getting sub q injections.......so when i spoke to Dr Lee on the phone that day,i asked him about the sub q's,but he said Pippi doesn't need it....so i didn't think no more about it.

But if Dr Lee had agreed to give Pippi sub q's,then i could have done it myself yesterday morning.....even though i know i'm going to be terrified to give an injection.

So i'm definitely going to ask this other vet about sub q's,and if i can do it myself when needed.


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## pla725 (Dec 17, 2007)

I gave Simon sub qs twice. A vet tech taught me how to do it. It is one of those things that I wonder if I did that sooner would he have pulled through. Anyway, I'm glad Pippi is doing better.


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## naturestee (Dec 17, 2007)

I'm so glad he's doing better!


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## cheryl (Dec 18, 2007)

Thanks heaps...i'm just so happy that's over with now,for the moment anyway...i was so worried...like i said in my other post..i normally wouldn't have worried as much as i did yesterday morning with Pippi.....but yeah..i'm definitely going to ask this other vet about sub q's,he has an appoitment soon,so i'll ask then.

Also i took the nutripet with me to the emergencyvet,just so i could showthe Drwhat i've been giving Pippi...she said it's verygood for cats and dogs,but she wouldn't have thought for a bunny,i told her i learned about itfrom a rabbit forum,she looked at me weird lol.

Anyway Pippi is still doing ok..he's eating and drinking!....at this very moment he's eating hay.

Hehe something funny Pippi did today,i hadn't given him any nutripet since yesterday morning sometime..umm that's when i put some on his mouth and i made him eat it,and boy he was not a happy bunny..i could just imagine him like this :nonono:no,no,no..naughty mum.

Anyway,i went to give him some today,expecting him to lick it of like he always does...but not this time..he smelled it than quickly hopped away...i think he remembers lol.

My boy

These were taken just today












This picture was taken 3 days ago,i was giving him his meds,you can just see the syringe up top


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## cheryl (Dec 18, 2007)




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## Flashy (Dec 18, 2007)

My vet looked at me weird when I mentioned something about the forum too.Just wait until I hand him the forum leaflet and ask if they will give them out, lol. 

I'm so glad Pippi is doing better still  That's a really lovely start to my day.


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## LuvaBun (Dec 18, 2007)

Oh Cheryl, this has made me so happy . What a little fighter Pippi is - and what a great mom he's got! Give him lots of cuddles from me - those pics are just so cute!

Jan


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## pumpkinandwhiskersmom (Dec 19, 2007)

Way to go, Pippi and Cheryl. He's such a tough little bunny, and you are an amazing bunny mom. I really think that some of the fight in that guy comes from knowing how much he is loved! Take care.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Dec 19, 2007)

Cheryl! Great job with Pippi, but you know you're a great mommy. I'm so glad and happy for you he's doing well. Come one Pippi! We love you. I am thinking of you guys.:hug:


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## cheryl (Dec 19, 2007)

Tracey..that is awesome for what you are doing for the bunnies...great job!

Jan..i can give Pippi heaps of cuddles for you...he is so spoiled as it is with cuddles

Pumpkin...Pippi knows he's loved alright,i think that's why he has fought for so long

Crsystal...you are always so sweet.

Thanks guys..i really do appreciate it...i'm sure Pippi does to.

:hug:to you all

He has given me quitea few scares recently...and now i have another small problem that i have noticed about him today.....he has his mouth slightly open...the other bunnies are not doing it because i had to go and check them all,just to see if any of the others were doing it,but they weren't....i don't know if it's his breathing....he's still eating ok though....he didn't really want anything to eat this morning and i thought oh no not again...but he was ok later and started eating again...but now i'm worried again about his little mouth being open....i don't know if that's ok or if it's a sign something is wrong.

Anyway he's going to the vet tomorrow.....and while i'm there i'm going to ask about sub q's and i better come home with it to 

Gosh,it seems to be one thing after another with Pippi

I do nothing but worry so much about him


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## Flashy (Dec 19, 2007)

If it is mouth breathing then it isnot a good sign, I'm sorry. I can't remember the exact details of it all, maybe someone else will explain, but I think it may mean he is not getting enough oxygen.

Having said that, some of mine have their mouth open if they get very stressed (I can think of one inparticular, and he is in good health), so maybe Pippi is just stressed or something?

Is it possible he is in pain?


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## cheryl (Dec 19, 2007)

No i don't think it's a pain thing....i think it's more to do with his breathing..i don't really know though,i don't know why he has his mouth slightly open


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## cheryl (Dec 19, 2007)

I just don't know.......why...why is all this crap happening to my poor Pippi 

I have watched him from a healthy happylittle boygo downhill to a unhealthy little boy he is now....gosh life sucks!

but.....

He still has an amazing spirit...and he still gives his mum kisses on the face


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## Thumpers_Mom (Dec 19, 2007)

Poor little baby. You guys are going through so much. I hope he gets better soon and stops worrying mama. :hug:

*jackie


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## tonyshuman (Dec 19, 2007)

I'm so glad that even through all of this, he is happy and gives you kisses!! Pippi has such a strong spirit and he really appreciates all you do for him! Good wishes to you both!!:biggrin2:


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## cheryl (Dec 19, 2007)

Thanks guys :hug:

We have a vet appoitment in a half hour....i was quite lucky actually because when i rang the vet this morning,the girl was saying that they were fully booked out today..i told her about Pippi,so she said she will get a nurse to look at him until the Dr has a spare minute.

I'm going to ask about the Sub Q's as well

Hopefully all will be ok with Pippi

Cheryl


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## Haley (Dec 19, 2007)

Oh Cheryl, Im so sorry. 

Max was partially breathing through his mouth for a long time and no, it was not a good thing. He would often sort of choke on his food because he was trying to breathe. Whats his nose like? Any discharge or sneezing? As you know, rabbits are obligate nasal breathers, so they dont breathe through their mouths unless theres something obstructing their nasal breathing.

Let us know how the appt goes. Pippiandyou arein my thoughts and prayers.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Dec 19, 2007)

I hate to mention this, but as Haley and Flashy said, it's not good, the open mouth breathing. Bun Bun did that with his heart failure. It got worse over time to where his mouth would be further open and he'd really be almost panting towards the end.

I hope he'll be okay Cheryl. I can't imagine what you're going through. You're so tough, even though you say you're not.

Thinking of you guys. Hugs.


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## pla725 (Dec 19, 2007)

I don't wish to sound even more negative but Simon did that too. Hedeveloped pneumonia as a complication from EC. It was the beginning of the end.


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## pumpkinandwhiskersmom (Dec 19, 2007)

Waiting for news from the vet visit.....sending prayers your way!


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## cheryl (Dec 20, 2007)

We are back from the vet,Pippi was still breathing like that when we arrived at the vet....i seen a completely different dr today,it was the same surgery that i see the lady dr....they have about 4 Dr's working there...i had seen this Dr while i was in the waiting room and have said hello to him before.....his name is Dr Joshua Wysoke...and he is just an awesome Dr....he is very nice.

Anyway when he first seen Pippi,he said that he's worried about that breathing....so he went on to check him with his stethescope(sp),he was listning for quite some time,but after he finished he said that Pippi is getting air in both lungs...so he's not sure what the problem could be....he said that all he can think of is the heat....but i'm not sure if rabbits do that when they are hot...i don't think i've seen the others do it,i think i would have noticed.He took his temperature and that was fine......i asked him if Pippi is dehydrated...he said no...you just have a very sick little bunny....i still asked him about the sub q's,but because he's drinking he said Pippi don't need it and he also said that they cannot really have it everyday because it can cause more problems in the end for Pippi,so no sub q's,only in an emergency.

He cannot find the problem with Pippi and why he's breathing like he is :?,but he said it is a worry though....and he's also not willing to give Pippi anymore antibiotics or anything..he said this boy has been through enough already over the months,and he said that really there is no reason to give him any meds anyway.

He was reading Pippi's file on the pc and mentioned about his bladder not working properly and i asked him if he knew anything,and he said the nerve's have probably been damaged.

We had a nice little conversation and i just enjoyed the chat i had with him but in the middle of talking about Pippi,i cried a few tears,because i let the stress build up..i have had a terrible year this year,i have been trying to deal with Pippi for a long time nowand i lost my most precious little bunnies as well,i have carried the stress with me all this time,it just builds up and up until i cannot handle anymore and then ibreak down and cry.

Well we don't know why he's breathing like he is,his lungs are ok.....all he really said is that theEC is slowly taking Pippi away bit by bit ...it's just a matter of time,but as the doctor said to me,it's not how longi have with him,it's the quality of his life that's important.

Pippi also has absolutely no fat on his body,i cannot remember the word the Dr used now,it started with a s...i knew that anyway,that's why he's so skinny



Reading your messages guys have really scared me now,why would he be breathing like this but his lungs are ok?

Haley,yes i remembered about Max's breathing...when i first seen Pippi doing it,and i knew it wasn't normal

Pla725....so your Simon had his little mouth open as well?....what did your vet say about it?

Crystal,now you got me worried about heart failure....i don't know if he checked his heart now...he checked his breathing for quite a while though.

Just before i walked out of the surgery i said to the Doctor,if he gets worse,i'm bringing him straight back here,he smiled and said yep i know you will.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Dec 20, 2007)

*cheryl wrote: *


> Crystal,now you got me worried about heart failure....i don't know if he checked his heart now...he checked his breathing for quite a while though.
> 
> Just before i walked out of the surgery i said to the Doctor,if he gets worse,i'm bringing him straight back here,he smiled and said yep i know you will.



Cheryl, I'm certainly sorry. I just feel it my job and will to disclose something I kno-even if it's not what someone wants to hear:hug:. But, I knew you'd accept it and be strong or I wouldn't have said anything. I just feel I owe it you and Pippi.

If it were me, I'd rather people told me these things, as I'd wonder exactly what could be going on. You have to make some sort of sense of it in your own head, to be able to care for and carry on with Pippi or any pet you love like you love them and like Pippi knows you love him.

Has an Xray been done on his heart?


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## cheryl (Dec 20, 2007)

Good question Crystal!.....no he has not had a xray on his heart....actually that sounds like a very good idea....i'm not sure but wouldn't the doctor have heard something if there was something wrong with his heart?....he had his heart checked when he was justat the emergency vet 

And Crystal,yes i would rather know things as well,actually i didn't even think of his heart 

All sorts of things seem to suddenly be going wrong with Pippi....i know he has a lot of health problems...but by gosh..how much can one little bunny take.


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## Flashy (Dec 20, 2007)

Some of my buns breathe with their mouth open when it's hot, one in particular who has a really thick coat.

He might have checked the heart when he used the stethoscope. My vet explained to me that they can't pick up subtleties like that, but can tell if it is beating healthily and stuff, so hopefully your vet did check that.

It's good you cried,

Thinking of you both.


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## cheryl (Dec 20, 2007)

*Flashy wrote: *


> Some of my buns breathe with their mouth open when it's hot



Oh Tracey,i hope that's all it is with Pippi(i guess i worried a bit to much).....it's been very hot here lately,but i just haven't seen my other bunnies do it that's all,and he's just been very lethargic the last two days....i've also been giving him his glucose drink to try and get some energy into him....he won't touch the nutripet anymore..since i made him eat it the other morning when he had gas.

I'll try and get a picture of him later

And thanks Tracey :hug:


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## Flashy (Dec 20, 2007)

Have you given him a frozen water bottle? Or something like an apple juice ice cube? Mine love both of those and it helps to cool them down. Or make up an ice cube with small bits of their favourite foods all mixed in too. I did that this summer and it was a big hit


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## cheryl (Dec 20, 2007)

I should have maybe put the air conditioner on,but i didn't really think it was that hot inside though,and the other bunnies are fine....but if tomorrow is going to be hot,i will turn the air con on and i will see if that makes any difference..maybe i'm just worrying way to much about him,buthe just didn't seem 'normal'..what's 'normal' for him anyway..he just seemed different yesterday,he was just acting different.

You know sometimes when i go to bed at night..i lay there and just think about Pippi and i always wish that i could wake up in the morning and my old Pippi is back to good health again....if only..huh?,it seems as though i'm forever taking him to the vets...it's just like having a sick child to look after...but i'm finding this very stressful..because i don't know what's going to happen next


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## pla725 (Dec 20, 2007)

Simon did develop pneumonia at the end. He was breathing heavy probably due to that and the heat. I had to be careful not to make him too cold. He slowly wasted away in the course of a couple of weeks. It was sad. Anyway, I think he was very happy living with me during the last year of his life. He had a sad life before he came into the rescue. Another story for another time. 

Just make Pippi comfortable and happy. And remember all the good times you had and still have with him.


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## JimD (Dec 20, 2007)

ray:

keeping you in our prayers and sending healing vibes.

The only thing I can offer is about the heat.
When it gets around 75F, a few of my buns start to show sign of it affecting them....less activity, less eating (less pooping as result), shedding, all stretched out, faster-than-normal breathing, etc.
80F and up, they all show signs.
Humidity is a big factor as well.

I've never noticed any breathing through their mouths, but I have seen a few damp nose/muzzles.

Could it possibly be a sinus obstruction/swelling/irritation/allergy?


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## cheryl (Dec 20, 2007)

Pla725....when it was winter time..i also had to keep Pippi warm,because he is so skinny,i was worried that he would catch a cold or something.

Was Simon still drinking when you were giving him his sub q's?.....because both dr's that i have asked said that Pippi don't need it...i'm just curious that's all

thanks heaps 

Jim,Pippi was breathing quite fast,to me he looked like he was having trouble,but maybe it's because i do worry to much though...Pippi's nose wasn't damp or anything though..he just had his mouth slightly open and his little nose was wriggling very fast...and it scared me...because i thought he was having breathing problems....and he was also very lethargic.

But it's been hot here for a couple of weeks now,but he showed no sign of over heating then..it just happened two days ago.

Now i'm wondering if the heat could be affecting him more because he has no body fat to regulate his temperature......i'm not sure about thatthough...i should have asked the Dr for moreinfo.

We have had a dramatic change of weather today,from being hot..muggy and sticky for the last couple weeks..today right at this momentit's raining and thundering and the weather is cool..and Pippi seems to be a bit better today..

Thanks heaps also Jim 

That's why i love this forum so much...because different people have had different experiences with their bunnies...and that way they can give other people advice because they have been there already

Just thanks so much guys


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## cheryl (Dec 20, 2007)

Ok i just thought of something....if it was actually the heat that caused that....wouldn't his temp be high?......when the Dr checked his temp yesterday..it was normal


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## pumpkinandwhiskersmom (Dec 20, 2007)

I'm not sure that would necessarily be so, but maybe Randy would know??? 

How's Pippi doing this evening? Thinking of you both...


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## pla725 (Dec 20, 2007)

Simon couldn't eat or drink by the last week of his life. This was late September which is fall here. I was giving him critical care with some baby food and water via baby food feeder and syringe. Then I started the sub q's. It was already too late when I started the sub q's. It was a last ditch attempt. He got some sub q's at the vet's office and more the next day. He was just too sick by then. He did died the next day.

BTW his temp was high.


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## Haley (Dec 20, 2007)

Geeze, its so frustrating not being able to offer any more help. The only thing I can think of is that bunnies are so fragile and sensitive and everything seems to be connected. When Max's breathing was so bad, every Dr. swore it wasnt connected to his mouth abscess and sure enough it was. Something as abstract as a mouth infection caused runny nose, open mouth breathing,choking on his foodetc. 

Max unfortunately lived for months open mouthed breathing most of the time, so while its not good it doesnt mean its the end. Just keep an eye on him for any signs of labored breathing, weezing, nasal discharge etc. 

Im sure you remember how much stress and pain I went through with Max. I had prepared myself many times for his passing. The only thing that got me through it was just doing everything in my power to make every day wonderful for him- by showing him how special he was to me. I know thats what youre doing for Pippi. And you can see it in his eyes that he knows it too.

Youre very strong, Cheryl. We're here for you. Just do what you can and take it a day at a time.

As always, youre both in my thoughts and prayers.

Haley


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## cheryl (Dec 21, 2007)

Thanks guys,

Pumpkin....Pippi was fine yesterday....but now this morning something is up with him again

Pla725,Pippi's temp is fine..i know that's a good sign...but it doesn't mean that there isn't something else going on....i really feel bad that you lost your Simon to this nasty parasite,just like i'm losing my Pippi 

Haley,yes i remember all your heartache with Max,i followed your thread like crazy,and i have to confess that when i wasn't here on the forum for over five months,i thought about Max a lot,because he was still sick when i left.

But as soon as i got back on the pc,5 months later,the first thing i did was to look to make sure Max was still with you...and he was and i just smiled to myself 



Well anyway,i just got out of bed this morning at 6:00am...i always check Pippi first,and he's breathing like he was before again,and it's not hot here at the moment,the weather has gone crazy here and it's raining and cool.....and he won't eat again,i don't know what's happening,he seems to be suddenly going through all this crap.....but why the breathing again.......he was fine yesterday morning..but by midday i noticed he was going quiet and didn't move much....but he was eating so i wasn't to worried until this morning when i noticed his breathing,and that's when i went to get him something to eat,and he wouldn't touch it......i can only do nothing but worry about this boy


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## Flashy (Dec 21, 2007)

This sucks.

I'm sorry he's not doing well Cheryl. I hope he has a better spell soon. Over Christmas would be rather nice


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## cheryl (Dec 21, 2007)

*Flashy wrote: *


> This sucks.



You got that right girl!.......this really does suck like anything....the whole situation sucks.....it's just horrible for me to watch Pippi go through this.

Thanks Tracey


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## pla725 (Dec 21, 2007)

I'm so sorry. Iwon'twish this on any one at any time of the year. Hang in there.

This is totally sucks. I can't even type.


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## cheryl (Dec 21, 2007)

I just got Pippi to eat a bit of watermelon....but he did the weird thing by picking it up and then dropping it...just like he did a few days ago...but he got the taste and went searching for the bit he dropped..he took another tiny bite and i mean tiny,usually he loves watermelon and will munch away on it..but then heleft the rest...i really wanted him to eat it....i'm like saying to Pippi just before 'please Pippi eat for mum..please Pippi just eat'.

He still has his little mouth slightly open,his teeth are showing....and i know that just isn't normal in any way...and it's not hot here today.

His eating habbits are changing slowly now.

Pla725....i just have to ask....did Simon ever seem like he was in pain or anything?,i don't know if EC can cause bunnies any pain or not.....i'm worrying about him,but if i take him to the vet again...they won't find anything wrong with him....and that's what really stresses me out because i just don't know what to do


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## pumpkinandwhiskersmom (Dec 21, 2007)

We'll be praying for dear Pippi, and you, too Cheryl. Give that trooper noserubs for me!ray:


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## AngelnSnuffy (Dec 21, 2007)

Oh Cheryl, I'm sorry to hear this. Poor Pippi.

I've been away for a couple days, but regarding your question about the heart xray, not sure what prompted my vet to do the xray. Possibly just his breathing alone at the time. Upon examination of the xrays, it was then confirmed that he had heart failure as his heart was enlarged and surrounded by fluid.

The symptoms you're seeing now could simply be the ec escalating. Of course, I am just speculating, as I have no real experience with ec.

Of course I will be thinking of you and Pippi, I hope you get a bit more advice.ray:


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## cheryl (Dec 21, 2007)

I'm sitting here crying because i don't know what to do!....Pippi won't eat or drink now,i don't know what's going on with him....i want to take him to the vet...but if i take him they won't find anything.....he's getting air in both lungs

I just don't know what to do

:bigtears:

I cannot watch Pippi go through this anymore! *sobbing with tears*


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## Pipp (Dec 21, 2007)

Aw, Cheryl, so sorry... 

I would think seeing as EC affects the brain that it's affecting the respiratory functions centered there, but that's just a guess. 

I know you must feel so helpless. 

Maybe Pippi's telling you it's time. :tears2: He's tired. And you're tired. Sleep on it if you think that's best and see how you both feel tomorrow. 

sas :sad:


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## pla725 (Dec 21, 2007)

I was thinking the same thing. That happened with Simon. I could see it in his eyes. He was grinding his teeth in pain. He just had enough. He even pushed the spoon of pumpkin I was offering him away. It took everything I had to gather up enough courage to do the right thing for him. I will leave it at that.


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## naturestee (Dec 21, 2007)

:hug: I know you'll do what's best for Pippi, whatever that may be. I wish I could give you some advice that will help.


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## Haley (Dec 22, 2007)

I didnt reread your post above (sorry its late here) but did the vet check his teeth/molars and around his jaw for any lumps or abnormalities? The not eating makes me think it could be tooth related. That could also explain the open mouth if a spur was hurting him.

As always, Pippi is in my prayers tonight.


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## Flashy (Dec 22, 2007)

At this stage no decisions are easy. You know where I am if I can do anything.

I'll be thinking of you both

x


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Dec 22, 2007)

:bigtears:Cheryl...I'm so sorry you and Pippi have to go through this. I know how scary the mouthbreathing is, when Ruby was breathing like I was in tears having to watch her suffer like that.I just wish I could do more for you.:tears2: Thinking of you and Pippi, whatever you decide we'll support you.:hug:



ray:ray:ray:


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## JimD (Dec 22, 2007)

ray:


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## TreasuredFriend (Dec 24, 2007)

More bunny guardian prayers are coming your way, {{pippi}}


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## cheryl (Dec 24, 2007)

GUYS...PIPPI IS STILL WITH ME!!......he's here for christmas! 

I tried to post yesterday,but something was wrong with my computer or something...it kept stuffing up all day..everytime i tried i couldn't post anything.

That day i posted my last message..Pippi wasn't doing well at all...he wouldn't eat and he wouldn't drink....i tried so hard all day that day to syringe him his glucose drink...but he wouldn't even touch that....he would just turn the other way from me or he would sorta hop away....he was sad...you could see it in his eyes.....i didn't know what to do....so the only thing i knew what to do was just sit there by his side and bawl my eyes out like a baby...and said please Pippi not now....i love you....i know it's silly and i know i should be in control of myself...but sometimes i don't know how.....i'm the biggest wimp around....i'm such a fool...i know that....if you knew me personally...you would understand.

But yeah....this is very hard to deal with all this...people say he's just a rabbit....he and the rest of my bunnies and my two boys are all i have in my life....nobody understands what they mean to me......my ex took everything from me one time(my life),but he will never take anything from me again....i love my bunnies....they don't hurt me like people have...nobody understands that though....they have brought happiness to my life again....even going through this with Pippi..it's hard watching him go downhill slowly but i will never ever give up until he's ready to give up....and at the moment he still seems to be willing to fight.

He's back to eating again...but i know that he can do a sudden turn around again and not eat again anytime soon....he seems to be going through some weird stages that are confusing me...but i do know it's because that nasty parasite is destroying his little body.

At the moment i'm just thankful he's still with me.

I wish i could give each and everyone of youa hug at the moment :hug:



Oh gosh,i just have to tell you all though,that i went to check on Pippi yesterday...he was lying down...flopped out......this is nothing new to me...my bunnies do it all the time...where ever they like....sometimes i have to walk over them....but yesterday i seen Pippi and my heart just stopped...and said 'ohh no..he's left me'...i couldn't see his stomache moving....i was just shocked and i started to cry...silly me...then all of a sudden he stretched his back leg....oh my gosh..was i relieved.....what i should have did was call his name or at least poke him lol....but i just freaked out.....and all that time he didn't wake up....and i was able to get a few pictures...before i finally disturbed him....

I really thought he was gone here...


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## Flashy (Dec 24, 2007)

I hope he stays good for a few days  even longer would be better.

Sitting by him and crying doesn't make you a wimp, it means you love him. Often crying can help us resolve issues too.

You seem to underestimate people here, you say that no one understands, and no, no one can ever understand, but I know a good few people on here who can relate, me being one of them. I know what it's like for your rabbits to be your world, to give you happiness and hope, to not hurt you and to be there when no one else is. They are amazing creatures.

Pippi is so lucky to be a part of your family, as are your other buns, because they couldn't have found a more loving home 

I hope you all have a very merry Christmas together.

x


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## cheryl (Dec 24, 2007)

*Flashy wrote:*
You seem to underestimate people here, you say that no one understands, and no, no one can ever understand, but I know a good few people on here who can relate, me being one of them. I know what it's like for your rabbits to be your world, to give you happiness and hope, to not hurt you and to be there when no one else is. They are amazing creatures.



Without my bunnies....i would still be this sad human being....they did something to my life.



And yeah...sometimes with Pippi it's hard for me to be happy because he can change in a blink of an eye...one day he's doing ok...the next day he's not well....it's like being on an emontional roller coaster at the moment with him....but i do know that he will never ever recover from this....so as i do expect the unexpected..i cannot help but get a little excited when he is having a good day.

I hope you have a wonderful christmas...Tracey


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Dec 24, 2007)

I've been so worried about Pippi - I'm so so so glad he's still with you Cheryl!:hug:

I love that little guy - he is such a fighter!Give him a big Christmas kiss from me Cheryl, and sending a virtual hug to you too!:hug2:


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## Flashy (Dec 24, 2007)

*cheryl wrote: *


> *Flashy wrote:*
> You seem to underestimate people here, you say that no one understands, and no, no one can ever understand, but I know a good few people on here who can relate, me being one of them. I know what it's like for your rabbits to be your world, to give you happiness and hope, to not hurt you and to be there when no one else is. They are amazing creatures.
> 
> 
> ...



:hugsquish:I believe that people and animals enter our lives for a reason. It sounds like yours came to you to bring you happines, hope and a fun future, plus much more that you will know and I don't.

It's good to get excited when he is having a good day. When someone is that ill, you have to enjoy the good times, so enjoy them as much as you can 

You're not as alone as you feel because you have lots of people who can relate to what you are going through and will be here for you.

x


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## pumpkinandwhiskersmom (Dec 24, 2007)

Oh Cheryl,

I was sooo glad to see this post. I've been worrying and praying for you and Pippi, and I didn't want to ask, in case something had happened.

Pippi, darlin', you just keep on keepin' on. You are a real blessing, and we all love you.

Cheryl....don't EVER, EVER think that there's something wrong with loving as deeply as you love this little guy. He feels your love, and that's what helps him fight!

Have a wonderful Christmas.


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## cheryl (Dec 24, 2007)

You guys are all just so fabulous...i cannot even describe how i feel about this forum...never in my life have i ever met a bunch of wonderful people all in one place.

I wish i could give you all a great big hug...just to show you all how much i appreciate each and everyone of you.

Just thankyou 

Pippi sends nose rubs to all of you sweet people

:hug:

Merry Christmas everyone


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## slavetoabunny (Dec 24, 2007)

Merry Christmas Cheryl and Pippi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Haley (Dec 24, 2007)

Im so happy to hear that your sweet boy is still hanging on. What a strong little man he is. I was getting worried when we didnt hear from you yesterday. Im so happy everything is ok.

If I could have one wish for Christmas it would be for a miracle for your sweet boy. I'll keep praying.

Merry Christmas Cheryl, Pippi and the rest of the family. We love you :hug:


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## pla725 (Dec 24, 2007)

I'm glad to see Pippi is still with you. He is meant to be here for a reason. Merry Christmas.


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## cheryl (Dec 25, 2007)

:bigtears:

The battle has ended


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## Flashy (Dec 25, 2007)

Aw Cheryl I am so so deeply sorry. He hung on for Christmas for you.

You know where I am, if I can do anything, please let me know.

Thinking of you all.

RIP Beautiful Pippi, be free and well at Rainbow Bridge. enjoy your healed body and binky free.


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## Spring (Dec 25, 2007)

I am so sorry Cheryl.. 

Pippi was such a strong and handsome boy.

Your in my thoughts..

:cry2


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## cheryl (Dec 25, 2007)

I just woke up a little while ago,and he was just lying there


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## Flashy (Dec 25, 2007)

It sounds like he fought as hard as he could to grant your wish to be there for Christmas, he gave it everything.

Do you have someone there with you? Can you get another bunny to hold and cuddle (not as in buy another, but go and get one of your buns)?


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## cheryl (Dec 25, 2007)

No nobodys here,but my kids who are still asleep.....i feel sick Tracey

I haven't buried him yet


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## cheryl (Dec 25, 2007)

Ohhhhh Pippi

:bigtears:


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## Flashy (Dec 25, 2007)

Take somedeep breaths and some sips of water.

You don't have to bury him immediately, could you maybe put him in a box with some hay and make him snugglyor in something similar to give you a while to gather your thoughts?

Could you wake your eldest to get him to help you? I am sure he knows how much you loved Pippi and would want to be there to support you.


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## cheryl (Dec 25, 2007)

Anthony just got up a few seconds ago....he could hear me crying and came out to see what was going on


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## Flashy (Dec 25, 2007)

It's good you have some company. Just give yourself a little bit of time to think before doing anything, nothing needs to be done immediately.


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## cheryl (Dec 25, 2007)

He hung on for Christmas....


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## Flashy (Dec 25, 2007)

That shows how much he loved you, he wouldn't have done it otherwise.


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## cheryl (Dec 25, 2007)

Yesterday he was ok...he was licking me and everything.....he loved to lick my face,and now i'm going to miss all that 

I'm just really very devestated


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## Flashy (Dec 25, 2007)

He may have seemed ok, but he was really ill./ It seems that rabbits who are ill and know they are dying 'rally' which is like having a really good spell just before they die.

It's ok to be devastated, you loved him deeply, and you will deeply miss him, and that's ok. It's not going to be an easy time for you, but remember that people are around who can help if you let us, and there will also be people over where you are who can help you to,if you want them to.


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## cheryl (Dec 25, 2007)

I know where i'm headed today,into that dark sad place


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## Flashy (Dec 25, 2007)

*hugs tight* It's ok to grieve, but try not to slip too far. I did, and made myself very ill when Flash died, so I really can relate to you.

Maybe it might be worth thinking about seeing a therapist, because they helped you before, or a bereavement counsellor, or at the very least your doctor. Also remember we are here too.

Try to draw comfort and love from yoru other bunnies and your sons and the rest of your family too.


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## cheryl (Dec 25, 2007)

I know i might sound like a big over grown baby....but this might sound stupid,but i don't know how to deal with my feelings,all i do is break down and cry........i'm missing him already....because everday i wouldspend an awful amount of time with him...we had this awesome bond

Pippi was truley awesome


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## Flashy (Dec 25, 2007)

You don't sound anything bad, you sound like someone who is greiving, and that is normal.

It's ok to cry,it's really good to cry, so allow yourself to cry. even if you feel you will never stop, you will eventually. Crying releases healing hormones, and is a very good way to deal with how you are feeling. Don't feel bad about crying, never feel bad about crying.

He was a huge part of your life, and it's natural to miss him, and be devastated, try to allow yourself to feel whatever it is you feel. There is no right nor wrong way to feel, just be true to yourself.


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## cheryl (Dec 25, 2007)

oh Tracey....i don't feel very well

:bigtears::bigtears::bigtears:


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## Flashy (Dec 25, 2007)

I'm not surprised to be honest, you have had a nasty shock, with adevastating outcome. 

What feels wrong?


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## cheryl (Dec 25, 2007)

Ohh Pippi,you fought till the end until your little body had,had enough

:bigtears:


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## slavetoabunny (Dec 25, 2007)

I'm sorry Cheryl. Pippi held on so he could spend Christmas with his mommy. We're all here for you.

RIP Pippi.


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## maherwoman (Dec 25, 2007)

Oh, Cheryl...I'm so so sad to hear this...you didn't deserve to lose your boy like this...you know I'm here for you if you need me. I'm so sorry I was sleeping when you wrote earlier, and we had the headphones plugged in, so I didn't even hear that you'd written...I'm so sorry I wasn't there for you...

Please know I'm here now, though...please write me if you need someone to talk to, ok?

:hug:


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## Pet_Bunny (Dec 25, 2007)

I am so sorry Cheryl ... :sad:

The ones closest to us hurts the most.

Binkie free Pippi. ink iris:


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## Flashy (Dec 25, 2007)

I've got to go to bed now Cheryl, but if you want anything, just PM me and I will reply as soon as possible.

I'll be thinking of you.

Hang in there honey.

x


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## AngelnSnuffy (Dec 25, 2007)

Oh Cheryl, I'm so sorry I missed this :bigtears:.

He hung on for you for Christmas, that you will never forget. He really loved you.

Please pm me if you want to talk. I'm so sorry.

Binky free Pippi, you were one strong boy.:rainbow::rose:


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## TinysMom (Dec 25, 2007)

I've edited the title of this thread so folks can know Pippi passed. I'm so sorry - words escape me right now....I just am speechless.

Peg


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## Haley (Dec 25, 2007)

Im so sorry, Cheryl. I just got home and saw this. Im just devastated.

He was such a strong boy and you did everything you could for him. Im so so sorry.

We're here for you hun. 

Rest in peace sweet boy. You have many friends waiting for you up there.

My heart has joined the Thousand, for my friend stopped running today :sad:


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## SOOOSKA (Dec 25, 2007)

Cheryl, I'm so sorry to hear this terrible news.

Binky Free at the Bridge Pippi.

Susan:angelandbunny:


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## pumpkinandwhiskersmom (Dec 25, 2007)

:bigtears:I'm so sorry, Cheryl.Pippi knew how much he was loved, and you made a difference in his life. Please try to take care of yourself. I know how hard it is to lose someone you love, and how easy it is to slip into that darkness of despair that looms so closely. Remember that your boys are there for you, and that your other buns need you to love them now, too. 

Pippi....what a brave, tough little boy you were....be happy and binky-free in your healed body at the Bridge.:rainbow: Keep watch over your Mamma.


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## naturestee (Dec 26, 2007)

I'm so sorry Cheryl. Poor Pippi, he fought really hard to give you another Christmas with him. Maybe think of it as a parting gift? I know how hard it is right now, but do try to remember the good times with him, and that he is no longer in pain.

Binky free Pippi, whole and healthy at the Rainbow Bridge. :rainbow:

:cry2 My heart has joined the Thousand, for my friend stopped running today:cry2


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Dec 26, 2007)

I'm in tears...I just can't believe this.:bigtears:

We are here for you Cheryl.:hug:


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## Flashy (Dec 26, 2007)

Thinking of you Cheryl,

Please let us know how you are

x


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## m.e. (Dec 26, 2007)

Oh Cheryl, I wish I knew what to say. I'm so sorry :bigtears:


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## Snuggys Mom (Dec 26, 2007)

I'm so sorry, Cheryl. He knows how much you loved him and that you did everything you could for him. 

Binky free, sweet Pippi

:rainbow:


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## LuvaBun (Dec 26, 2007)

Oh Cheryl, my heart is breaking for you. Pippi fought so hard for so long, and you did absolutely everything you could have for him.

He managed to stay with you for Christmas, and that was a special gift from him, for all you did for him.

We are all here for you - we will all miss that sweet little man 

Jan


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## pumpkinandwhiskersmom (Dec 26, 2007)

Cheryl, please let us know how you are doing when you are able. You are in our prayers and thoughts.


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## TreasuredFriend (Dec 26, 2007)

Dear Cheryl, cry as many tears and times as you wish to. Healing is an individual process and no one can experience the pain as us bunny parents do, as many of us have lost our dearest soulmates and friends. 

Flashy and *all RO'ers here* have some wonderful shoulders to lean on. Reach out to us, as we'll provide strength at this time of incredible ache and sorrow.

You gave Pippi a wonderful life. He was magnificently lucky to know your LOVE.

I'm so sorry. He will always love you though his body needed to rest and be at peace. {{ pippi and cheryl }}

Hugs, hugs, and more hugs.


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## pla725 (Dec 26, 2007)

I was away visiting family yesterday and got in a little while ago. I just logged on to see this sad news. I'm so sorry. I really don't have the words to express my sorrow. I just had a feeling yesterday that Pippi's fight was over. He is at peace. PM me if you want to talk.


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## BlueGiants (Dec 26, 2007)

I'm so very sorry Cheryl. Pippi was so special and he knew how much he was loved. You were the world to him. 

It's going to hurt for a while. :tears2: But please, for his sake and yours, think of all the wonderful times you had together. He wouldn't want you to go into that dark a place. :hug:

ray: Wishing you peace in your heart. He is free of all the pain and discomfort, and will always be in your heart. 

Binky Free Pippi :rainbow: ink iris:


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## timetowaste (Dec 26, 2007)

merry christmas pippi <3

:cry2

cheryl, you should start an EC charity where people can donate money to help understand EC and its effect on rabbits maybe. maybe your local vets who treated pippi will put out a small box for it. i am sure there is somewhere in the world where people are doing research on EC.

it doesn't sound like there are very many rabbit savvy vets that are educated in EC and the treatment of this dehabilitating parasite. perhaps pippi could be the step over the line that this parasite needed to be more recognized there.

this could be the Pippi Foundation <3 

RIP pippi, you hung tight. you are so loved and will always be missed.
ink iris::rainbow:


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## aurora369 (Dec 26, 2007)

I'm so sorry Cheryl...

Pippi will be missed, but we know what a good life he had with you. He loved you very much, and that can be the greatest gift of all, to spend your life with the love of your life.

--Dawn


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## pla725 (Dec 26, 2007)

When my Simon passed due to EC I donated his body to the University of Penn Vet School. In life and in death Simon continued to be a teacher. The vets and myself learned a lot dealingwith the effects this diease. Yet, there is much more to learn.


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## Flashy (Dec 27, 2007)

Thinking of your Cheryl, and wondering how you are.

x


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## Ivory (Dec 27, 2007)

I'm so sorry that Pippi passed. Your bunnies are beautiful and they still love you, if you believe in that sort of thing.

This poem helped me to get through the recent death of my Pug (one of the reasons I haven't been posting as much).

Do not stand at my grave and weep, 
I am not there, I do not sleep. 
I am in a thousand winds that blow, 
I am the softly falling snow. 
I am the gentle showers of rain, 
I am the fields of ripening grain. 
I am in the morning hush, 
I am in the graceful rush 
Of beautiful birds in circling flight, 
I am the starshine of the night. 
I am in the flowers that bloom, 
I am in a quiet room. 
I am in the birds that sing, 
I am in each lovely thing. 
Do not stand at my grave and cry, 
I am not there. I do not die.


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## MsBinky (Dec 27, 2007)

Oh Cheryl :cry1:Oh I don't know what to say... I know words just won't do... I know the feeling. I'm just so sorry. :cry1:


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## Flashy (Dec 27, 2007)

Ivory just reminded me, that maybe this link, called To those we have Loved and Lost might help you.


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## cheryl (Dec 27, 2007)

I'm feeling so lost without Pippi at the moment.....

Christmasmorning Pippi was fine...he ate and was drinking and i even took him outside for a while,thenwe went to my sister's house for lunch and came home around 7:00pm...he was still ok...until around 10pm and i noticed Pippi was just different.....he wouldn't let me pat him orgoanywhere near him...he kept hopping away from me...first time in all the years that i have had him.....somewhere deep in my heart,i sort of knew that he was giving up....he had had enough i'm sure.

I was scared to go to sleep that night...but i was still sort of naive about it all,saying to myself that Pippi will still be here tomorrow morning....i'm so stupid.

I woke up 5:30am and my heart was beating really fast,i got out of bed and went to check Pippi...he wasn't in his normal spot....i gently looked around the corner and i saw Pippi lying down in the corner of the room with his eyes open....i knew he was gone,i stood at that corner for what seemed like ages just staring at Pippi,i went over to him and bawled my eyes out and told him that i will love him forever and ever and ever.....i wrapped him up in a towel and i cradled his body in my arms for a while before i put him down and came on here to tell you guys thesad news.

What makes me feel really sad is that i'm sure he waited until after christmas to leave me,i could have lost him numerous times before....i know i should feel comforted by the fact that he was here for christmas...but i'm feeling he did it just for me....the morning after christmas...i just cannot believe it 

I'm not going to pretend that i'm ok,because i'm not..Pippi's death kinda threw me over the edge.....i crumbled to the ground 

When i say i'm not strong...please believe me...i'm in no way in control....i just have to be strong because i have noone else to be strong for me

EC finally destroyed Pippi and took him away....what an awful thing EC is.

I'm going to say more in a minute,but i need a break at the moment....i can not see the damm keyboard.

Thankyou for all your comments everyone,i cried at each and everyone of them

Will carry on with this in a few minutes....


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Dec 27, 2007)

Sometimes there are no words...:tears2:Just know we are here for you Cheryl - and we understand.:hug:


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## Flashy (Dec 27, 2007)

I'm so glad you are about.

I'm not going to say too much because I know that you are going to post something else.


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## cheryl (Dec 27, 2007)

Here goes again...

The morning of Pippi's death was awful....i didn't take it well at all.

You know..i knew this day had to come some time soon,but i still never managed to prepare myself....it's not easy to lose a bunny suddenly or to know that your bunny is not well and he will eventually leave......it feels EXACTLY the same way,so i'm not understanding how people say it's a worse feeling to lose a bunny suddenly.

I lost my Strawberry suddenly...and i lost Pippi over time...and you know what....it all hurts just the same,no matter how each and every bunny dies...it feels all the same.



It was boxing day when Pippi died,and there was absolutely nothing open,Adelaide is the only state in Australia that stays closed for boxing day.

Anyway,i made my decision that i was going to get Pippi cremated....but i had to get him to the vet that day......i wasn't up to feeling like going anywhere at all,i just wanted to stay home and drown in my sorrows....i didn't want to leave the house.

I knew the vets wouldn't be open...but i still hopped in my car and drove to the Paralowie vets....closed it said....so i drove to the Broadview vets where Pippi was seeing Dr Lee....closed it said.....i was so distraught that day that i just hopped in my car and started to drive home,i was in tears the whole time while i was driving around.....i stopped at the traffic lights when they turned red,and i sat there and broke down.....the streets were pretty quiet....there were hardly any cars on the road.....but as i sat at the traffic lights,i forgot where i was,i cried so much...until i heard someone beep their horn for me to move....the light changed green and i didn't see it 

I finally got home...and my son Anthony says 'why didn't you just call the vets first'...i just didn't think.....i was in a big mess.

Then all of a sudden i remembered the emergency vet,which i knew would havebeen open....i actually did call them first.....they told me to bring Pippi down straight away.

So i got Pippi's body,put him in his basket and i drove the 50 minute drive with Pippi's body sitting next to me,the whole time crying and telling Pippi that i loved him so so much and that i will adore him forever 

When i arrived at the vet,the nurse took Pippi from me...since the RSPCA was closed for the day..Pippi had to go in the freezer 

The vets don't cremate animals...what they do is...they will call the RSPCA to come pick up Pippi's body,take him back to the RSPCA and cremate him there,then they will send his ashes of to my chosen vet...which is much closer.

I was looking....'trying' to look.. through all my tears,at all the different urn's...i picked this nice one and i chose the colour cornflower blue for him.

I could have chosen a plastic urn..which cost $205...or a ceramic one which cost $230...i chose the ceramic one.

I wanted to do that for my other bunnies as well,but i had always freaked out and quickly buried them.......i guess by now you are all realizing what a hopeless fool i really am.

I should get Pippi's ashesback some time next week.....really i don't know why it would take that long....i wanted him back sooner than that.

Gosh..because i was in such a state when i turned up,the nurse spoke with me for ages....it felt kinda good to talk to someone...i told her everything about Pippi,and again it just felt good talking about him.

The day felt like it was just dragging along.....i got home from the vet and just fell on the lounge and that is where i stayed all curled up for hours,just thinking about Pippi and everything that we went through together.

Gosh i still have so much more to say about Pippi,but will write more about him later.

I'm missing Pippi badly...the tears haven't even stopped yet....i found his syringe that had his glucose drink in it and he wouldn't even drink it that night....i got it and chucked it across the room in anger.

Watching Pippi go through everything for months and months has hurt me tremendously.....he was one brave little boy

:bigtears:i'm missing you Pippi

Your mummy foreverink iris:


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## Flashy (Dec 27, 2007)

No one should ever say any type of grief is worse, because they don't know, they can only know about themselves and their own personal griefs.

I also can't see why anyone would think you were a hopeless fool. Maybe all that driving helped, maybe telling Pippi how much you loved him over and over again helped. when Flash died I tried to wake him up using other bunnies, I tried to keep his cooling body warm with mine to make sure he didn't die. Grief, loss and desperationmakes us do things we wouldn't necessarily normally do, but that doesn't make it stupid or foolish, nor the person a fool, it makes us human, nothing wrong with that at all.

It's good you got Pippi cremated, and also that the nurse spoke to you. I'm glad you found it helpful.

Keep writing as much or as little as you want. Maybe having it all written out might help.

x


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## Spring (Dec 27, 2007)

Oh Cheryl.. I've been thinking about you since Pippi passed. 

Your in my thoughts :hug2:.


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## timetowaste (Dec 27, 2007)

pippi was a battle hero, that is for sure.


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## pumpkinandwhiskersmom (Dec 27, 2007)

You are NOT a hopeless fool....you love Pippi, and that's all that needs to be said for anyone here to understand....you are grieving, and each of us grieves in our own way. Please take care, and know how often we think of you and your brave, sweet Pippi. Sharing how you feel with those who care about you and Pippi is the best way for you to begin the long healing process. I know that healing sounds so impossible, but when my dad died, someone told me that healing doesn't mean forgetting the love and the bond that you have. It means that the pain may someday lessen, and the wonderful memories will be this first thing that you think of. ray:...Grace


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## cheryl (Dec 27, 2007)

Well weeks ago i had planned to get Pippi a post mortem done....i needed to know exactly what went on inside of Pippi's body....i did speak with the Dr about it and she thought that it would be a good idea.

When Pippi died i forgot all about it until i recieved a pm from Pla725 and she said that she got Simon done....and that's when i remembered that i wanted it done for Pippi........so i quickly rang the vet to see if Pippi has been picked up yet,the nurse said no he's still in the freezer ,the RSPCA will come by sometime and pick him up,i asked her if it's to late to get a post mortem done....she said since his body is already frozen,they wouldn't get a proper diagnoses....they would have to let his body thaw out first...she said they might get some results depending on what his problems were....she was also saying that if i wanted it done,then it should have been done while his bodywas still fresh,and since the vets weren't open that day...they would have just put him on some ice instead of freezing him fully.

I got of the phone quite dissapointed,as i really really wanted it done,i'm sure if would have been very good info for the Dr as well.

UGH!....i'm such an idiot


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## pla725 (Dec 27, 2007)

Don't worry about that. You were grieving at the time. I don't know how I even managed to ask and that was before Simon was put down. They still may be able to get some tissue samples.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Dec 27, 2007)

Cheryl, please try to not be so hard on yourself. It's such a shock to your body to lose a close friend like this, you just didn't think of it. It was/is alot of grief to deal with. I remember how it feels, I was there not long ago. You're definitely not an idiot or a fool or anything else you feel like calling yourself-don't. I know, easier said than done. We're here for you:hug:.


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## Flashy (Dec 28, 2007)

Cheryl, you are already feeling vile enough right now, why make yourself feel worse by giving yourself a hard time about each and every single thing, when actually, you haven't done anything wrong. You have acted through love and grief, it may not seem like it now, but the way you have acted and the things you have done has shown how muhc you love Pippi, so why beat yourself up for loving him, there is nothing wrong with that at all.


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## cheryl (Dec 28, 2007)

Pippi has now joined his sweetheart Strawberry,those two had a very close bond,Strawberry loved her little man like crazy...she was always licking Pippi,and where ever Pippi went,Strawberry was right there as well.....When Pippi got sick and he was at the vets all the time,Strawberry would be at home anxiously waiting for him to come home,and she was always guaranteed to smother him in kisses...bunny love is the most sweetest thing to watch.

Then one unexpected morning,i found Strawberry had died and i don't know why,she died on the 18th June 07,just two days after my birthday....she died when Pippi needed her the most....and i'm sure that's when Pippi started to slowly get a lot worse...he lost his baby girl and he missed her because i seen the sadness in his eyes...it broke my heart into tiny little pieces....but with a lot of love from me,he over come his grief even though he was having health issues as well.

Pippi was one brave little fighter...he gave it everything he had in him until the end and that i am grateful to have known him and to have shared my life with him for 3 1/2 years.

Oh Pippi you will be forever in my heart baby boy.

I can just imagine when Strawberry seen you enter the Rainbow Bridge..she would have been so excited and i'm sure she camehopping straight overto you...maybe even knocked you over in pure joy smothering you in lots and lots of bunny kisses.

You two are together forever now







Mummy loves you and misses you so much already

Thinking about you always


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## cheryl (Dec 28, 2007)

*Flashy wrote: *


> Cheryl, you are already feeling vile enough right now, why make yourself feel worse by giving yourself a hard time about each and every single thing, when actually, you haven't done anything wrong. You have acted through love and grief, it may not seem like it now, but the way you have acted and the things you have done has shown how muhc you love Pippi, so why beat yourself up for loving him, there is nothing wrong with that at all.


Tracey,i don't know why i do that for....i guess it's because i just feel like crap at the moment...but then i suppose i'm always like that


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## Flashy (Dec 28, 2007)

Maybe give yourself a break and try to rationalise it then. Like if you think X you did was stupid, think, ok, but I did it because of Y, and that is ok, because that means Z.

Like, you drove to the vets without thinking because you were upset and that's ok because it means you love Pippi, that kind of thing.


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## cheryl (Dec 28, 2007)

Tracey,that's what i mean when i say you all are realizing what a hopeless human being i am....i wish i could be in more control of situations,but i don't know how,and then i start hating myself because i go into full panick and i don't rationalise things in a proper way,i get very stressed out very easy...it's only later when i have calmed down then i realise i could have done things in a different way,and then most times it's already to late.

Cheryl


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## Flashy (Dec 28, 2007)

I'm going to be blunt. You are wrong. I can't speak for anyone else, but I am sure I know the answer, but I don't see you as a hopeless human being, I see you as someone who is struggling. There is nothing wrong with struggling, loads of people do.

I don't mean rationalise it as you do it, that's not always possible, but afterwards, when you see you could have done something different, then look back at what you did and allow yourself to see that what you did was not as negative as you think, and it happened for less negative reasons.

Lots of people panic. I'm not sure if you saw my thread in the Haring around forum baout my anxiety, but lots of people on here suffer from it. Lots of people, generally, panic. That can be controlled though, try deep breathing, in for 4, hold for 2 and out for 5. Or try carrying a piece of note paper with you and writing down whatever you feel when you panic and then write down why you are panicking and what you could do to make the situation less stressful, or try having a 'safe' object with you to hold and talk to if you panic (a little cuddly toy, or something like that).

Try not to hate yourself, that will send you down into a very dark spiral, and you know you don't want to be there. When you feel yourself starting to hate yourself, try to think about why you hate yourself, and then try to see it from an outsiders view and see whether you would hate someone else for the same thing, then try to step back, and give yourself a break. You may feel you need to be hard on yourself, but you don't.

If you feel yourself slipping, please go to the docs sooner rather than later, the sooner you go and get some help, the sooner you can start to feel better, and can have the happy memories of Pippi back, as opposed to feeling so wretched all the time. Pippi deserves his good memories to live on, but you can't do that whilst you feel so bad. It will take a while to feel better, grief takes a long time, so allow yourself to feel however you do, fele those emotions, and try not to make them harder for you than they already are.


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## Flashy (Dec 28, 2007)

Oh, and one more thing, if I thought you were all you said you are, then I wouldn't be bothering to talk to you, andmaybe neither would anyone else.


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## Haley (Dec 28, 2007)

Cheryl, Im so so sorry. Please dont be so hard on yourself though, you did so much for him, more than most people would. Pippi was so lucky to know your love and be so cared for in his final days. 

We all break down when things get tough. No one can think clearly when theyre thrown into that sort of situation. Its just heartbreaking and devastating and we do what we can. 

We're here for you. We know how much you loved him and how much he meant to you.

*hugs*

Haley


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## tonyshuman (Dec 28, 2007)

[align=left]RIP sweet Pippi. You showed us how brave a bunny can be. Binky free.

We are here for you Cheryl.
[/align]


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## MsBinky (Dec 28, 2007)

{{{{{{Cheryl}}}}}}

It was only two weeks ago that ilost my heartbunny Wiggles. Reading your posts made me cry because it made me relive it and it's awful to know that someone isdealing with that kind of pain. I know what you are feeling, and i know the feeling of despair all too well. I so wish i could just be there and hug you and we could cry over them together. 

I'll be honest though, as much as it hurts, you'll be happy to have your lil one cremated. I don't regret it and i very much feel like part of her is still here with me. I too, went for the more expensive urn. There is no price to be put on them when we love them that much. 

I only wish I could help soothe your pain, but I know all too well that it takes time. We love you, and we are here for you. :hug::cry1:


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## cheryl (Dec 29, 2007)

Oh gosh guys,i cannot express my gratitude enough...you are all so wonderful

I need to say though that Tracey's post made me cry because i have just never had anyone who really understands me...my family don't really understand me at all...my boys are maybe the only one's who have ever really understood me...only because they have been there through everything.

I'm one of these people that stress out and worry over situations....and do you know how i handle rough times....i cry and worry...yep that's right..that's what i do.

You know it was my boys that kept me going....but it was my bunnies that were my saviours....they actually taught me something....here's a bunny..a shy little thing,just like myself but i'm terribly shy..yet they are so willing to trust you,they let you get close to them....and here's me..i'm scared to let people close to me again,afraid of getting hurt...like i have beenover and over again by the people that were in my life....i grew to hate myself,as i didn't understand why people can hurt other people.

I'm someone who forgets about herself,just to make sure the next person is happy,i take from myself to give to another.....and i realized much later in life that people just take advantage of that kindness...it's my bunnies that brought something meaningful back into my life....how could a bunny do that?..which is what i keep asking myself.

I have been down that dark place many times before...many times than i would have liked to

I know that each time i have lost a bunny..i break down completely...if only you could all see what goes on behind my pc screen...i'm sure you would all say..'oh my gosh'

So this is why i say my bunnies are my saviours

Pippi's death has hit me so darn hard...even though i knew he wasn't well and i knew EC would take him from me....but i was still so naive about it....always saying 'oh Pippi will still be here tomorrow'....this is why i'm such an idiot because i didn't really face the facts....like i was talking to Crystal on msn and she mentioned it feels like losing a friend.....yes that is exactlywhat it feels like,i feel like my heart has been ripped out thrown on the ground and stomped on....that's how i feel.

When i seen Pippi lying there that morning...i cried like a baby....my son eventually heard me and came out....he knew what was wrong....i didn't have to tell him....i know he worries when i'm like that because all he does is ask if i'm ok.

I have an awesome bond with all my bunnies....but because Pippi had so many problems and he was forever at the vets...we became even more close than anything....i spent so many days and nights comforting him.

I miss everything what we had been through together....that's right what ever Pippi went through,i went through it as well just in another way....there were many a time when i had to leave him at the vets for the day...and i would be home like a anxious mummy,just waiting for the news that Pippi was ok.

He had,had an operation to clean out an abscess,it was healing to well on the outside but he still had all the puss on the inside,and if the hole had closed up with the infection still inside then he would have ended up with worse problems with it,Pippi was so thin and bony and i was terrified for him to be put under because he could have died....but he survived the op.

You know,i really miss taking care of him...i miss syringing him his glucose drink which he had a few times a day....just the simple things...but i miss it all badly.

That boy fought a brave..long.. battle...and i keep going back to what he had been through....he was one heck of a bunny.



You guys are really awesome

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Dec 29, 2007)

You know guys....i just don't know what i would do if any of my other bunnies got EC...i would be so devestated to watch another bunny slip away like that...it's awful to have watched my Pippi fade away slowly.....but i do know that i would be there every step of the way though.

This was hard

:bigtears:


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## Spring (Dec 29, 2007)

Oh Cheryl, you are so caring and wonderful. I wish I could reach out and show you just how amazing you are. You truly are such an amazing person. 

:hug1

Thinking of you.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Dec 29, 2007)

Cheryl, 

Regarding EC, I do not know what I'd do either. If I had to see what you saw, I'd probably not want anymore animals, I wouldn't. That had to be quite difficult, I would have wanted to just sleep, or die, whatever came first...:?

I feel so bad for you having to deal with this. Darn it all.

I'm here for you, hon.

ink iris:

Remember, I know how it feels. Like total crap. And you want to just throw up...:?

:hug:


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## Flashy (Dec 29, 2007)

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make you cry.

I can deeply relate to your pain on a close level. Flash was my world, my only ever friend. He was attacked on the 26th Dec, died the 27th dec and was buried the 28th dec, two years ago. I know how much it sucked for me particularly at the holiday season, and then following on from that. I can't ever know your full pain, nor understand, no on can, but I can definite relate on a very close level. Maybe that's why my post touched you, because I 'get' you.

I don't think anyone would be surprised by what goes on behind your PC screen. Only because we only see words, we don't really get to know a person on here unless we make an effort. Everyone appears on here different. I know I sure as hell do, I know others do too. So it wouldn't be surprising because no one knows what goes on behind anyone elses PC screen too. I'm not sure that made sense, but I'm trying to say that everyone is the same in that respect.

I truly think it's a good thing to cry and break down (not like a total full mental break down, I hope you know what I mean) after losing someone you love. That means that you are trying to deal with it, not block it out, which can have really bad effects at a later date.

Bunnies are saviours for many people (not sure if you saw it, but I made a thread on rabbit therapy, and so many people replied about how rabbits have saved/helped them, it's really quite astounding), and they won't stop being your saviours. You might not have a physical Pippi with you, but all he did for you, all his memories, his spark, everything inside him will still be there. He will still be a saviour to you, and so will other buns, if you let them.

I, again, can relate to your fear about coming up against EC. After being on here a few months I came across the exact same thing that killed Flash, and it tore me apart. That bunny came through it alive, and whilst I was glad for that bun, I was gutted because I know I could have saved Flash had I been a member here. If you come across EC, you can only do what you think is best. You may choose to confront it head on (if you do this, make sure you do it for the right reasons), or you might choose to ignore it all totally, and those, and anything else will be ok. You don't have to do a certain thing, or do it in a particular way, just be true to yourself and how you feel.

It's natural to miss caring for him, it was a big part of yoru everyday routine, and it made you and he very close. In time missing it will ease, and you will hopefully start to remember and laugh at the good times. It will take time, but give yourself that time, Don't be afraid to seek help if you need it. Pippi wouldn't want you to fall into your dark place again, he didn't live for that, he lived for you, to give you laughs and fun, and that is how he would want you to remember him, I'm sure. 

You know where I am

x


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## JimD (Dec 29, 2007)

i'm so sorry 

....binky free little one 
ray::rainbow:


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## cheryl (Dec 31, 2007)

I just wanted to say thankyou to each and everyone of you :hug:

It's been almost a week already.....and everyday Pippi is there in my mind...i cannot stop thinking what he went through.....but he's at peace now.....but somehow it's not comforting me...because i still have the images of Pippi in my mind.....i know the pain will ease in time though.

I'm still struggling with the whole thing with EC.....and i never want to see that again....in fact i don't want to be posting anything about my bunnies in the infirmary for a long time.

I recieved my Sabrina's house calanders the day after Pippi died.....they were very beautiful pictures but i couldn't bring myself to smile at them.

Tracey.....you really understand my thinking

Forever loving my Pippi

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Jan 1, 2008)

Well this morningit's been a week since Pippi left to head on up to the Rainbow Bridge 

I got up this morning and just felt automaticallysad

I also happened to notice Jack....he went into the loungeroom,i didn't think anything unusual until he went to the spot where Pippi had died (i feel sick just writing this)and Jack stood in a weird way...kinda reminded melike a cat and the way they stand when they are curious about something,anyway there was nothing there for him to look at.....or was there.....i'm sure he was looking at Pippi....it was just very odd the way Jack was acting.

I don't even have his ashes back yet,it's been a week....i thought i would have had them back by now.

It's been hard for me....because if he was buried out the back,i could go sit with him and talk to him like i do the other bunnies that are buried out there...but at the moment i have nothing of Pippi......i need Pippi's ashes back so it can somehow comfort me that Pippi is home.

I'm going to call the vet today when they open......it's only 6:30am here at the moment.

But i really need Pippi's ashes back.



I'm missing you Pippi...i'm still missing all those things i had to do for you,i know i should feel comforted that you are in peace now....but i just miss taking care of you,i did it for such a long time.

Oh Pippi...mummy loves you and misses you so bad

I keep looking back at all your pictures when you were a healthy little boy...and just cannot believe what EC had done to your little body.....it's going to haunt me for a very long time....you know how i am Pippi.

But everything you went through...you never let that spirit in you fade away...the only time your spirit died was when you died Pippi 



Always thinking about you

Your mummy



ps..give the other bunnies kisses from me as i'm missing them like crazy too.


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## ~Bracon~ (Jan 1, 2008)

Im so sorry Cheryl:cry4:

Were all here for you

x


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## cheryl (Jan 2, 2008)

Thankyou Bracon :hug:

I just had a visitor about half hour ago.....i was sitting on the lounge watching a bit of tv when i seen The Animal Welfare League vanpull up into my driveway....they were bringing Pippi's ashesto me personally...i was supposed to pick his urn up at the vet,but i got a total surprise....i jumped up of that lounge so quick

I am so happy that he is finally back home now

Cheryl


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## Spring (Jan 2, 2008)

Aww, that's so nice of them to personally bring Pippi's ashes to you. Hopefully it will help you heal a bit .

:hugsquish:


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## cheryl (Jan 2, 2008)

Leanne,i cannot express how i was feeling.....i was feeling lost without Pippi being around,even in death it just didn't feel right that he wasn't here....but it feels different now that he's back....well his ashes anyway....i know i'm sounding weird...but i think you all can understand what i mean.

Silly me,when the guy came to my door with Pippi's urn in a little carry bag....i cried...the tears just fell when i took that carry bag from him and isaw Pippi's little blue urn....my baby boy.The guy was very nice and of course he understood how i was feeling.



Missing you Pippi

Cheryl


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## slavetoabunny (Jan 2, 2008)

I know how you feel about Pippi's ashes. I have the ashes of my two departed bunnies along with a picture of them in a little "shrine" I set up in my entertainment center. It's very comforting to have them there with me.


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## LuvaBun (Jan 2, 2008)

I am so pleased for you that Pippi has finally come home.

Like slavetoabunny, I have Fudge's and Perry's ashes here with me, and it is a comfort knowing they are 'here'. And yes, we do know how you feel - you're not wierd at all 

Jan


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## Haley (Jan 2, 2008)

Im so glad to hear youre doing ok and that you have Pippi's remains home safe with you now.

How are the other bunnies doing? 

Ive been thinking of you and your bunny family. Ihope and praythat this new year will be better for you and yours. 

*hugs*

Haley


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## cheryl (Jan 3, 2008)

Thankyou for understanding guys.....i know..just to have him back home feels right,for that whole week i felt awful.When i had rang the Animal Welfare to see when he would be returning to me,because it was a week,and the lady said that a few years ago it used to take up to 6 weeks for people to get their pets ashes back.

Haley,the bunnies are all doing good,but i am terrified that one of my other bunnies will get EC,since Pippi had been around everybunny,and i didn't know he had EC then,i pray so hard that my bunnies will be ok and that i never have to face EC again

Thankyou guys 

I just wanted to post a few pictures of Pippi....look how healthy he looks!

See the blue paint on the cement....my boy Jeremy :rollseyes







Pippi with two of his daughters Baby(rip) and Charlie....this picture was taken back in March 05

When i bought Pippi from the pet shop i was told he was a girl,so i just asumed he was...umm he got two of my girls pregnant....Daisy and Marshmallow....they both had 3 babies each but one of Daisy's babies died at a week old ....i freaked out so much because i had never ever seen a baby bunny in my life and it was all unexpected....Pippi the little bugger was whisked of to the vet the next day to be desexed,i did not want anymore babies....needless to say i kept the 5 babies 

I had bought Jack at the same time,and i had him desexed as soon as he was old enough,and if i had known he was a boy i would have gotten him done the same time as Jack








Pippi watching his silly little girls.....he looks quite annoyed at those two






And another






And i just had to post this one again....Strawberry loved her Pippi so much...she was always smothering him with kisses....she has her boy back now






Missing my Pippi

Cheryl


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## AngelnSnuffy (Jan 3, 2008)

I just loce the pics, Cheryl.

I know how you feel, honey, we talked about this, it sucks.

Here for you, though:hug:.


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## cheryl (Jan 3, 2008)

I know you do Crystal....i know you still miss your little Angel girl

And yes it sure does suck badly

Thanks Crystal :hug:


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## Spring (Jan 3, 2008)

Aww, those pictures are so sweet.

What a wonderful boy. I'm glad you have his ashes, at least it gives a bit of closure and comfort having him close by. 

I hope you don't face EC again either, but I know in my heart you and your bunniesare going to be just fine. I can't even imagine how scary it is having gone through it and worry about your little ones, but they are going to be fine .

Nose rubs to everyone and hugs to you!


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## MsBinky (Jan 3, 2008)

Cheryl,

I feel the exact same way you do about bunnies. I can relate to them i nthat sense as well which is why I bond with them so much. I wish I could take your pain away. i can't but I'll give you plenty of hugs instead :hug::rose:


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Jan 3, 2008)

Oh Cheryl...I understand the pain you are going through. I still can't believe Pippi is gone myself...:tears2:

At least you have his ashes back, so he is still with you in some way. I know it comforted me greatly when Ruby's body was brought home, like she was till here in body at least (although not in spirit).

I can only imagine how scary this time must be for you waiting to see if your other babies are ok. Sending many prayers that this is the end of it and your babies stay healthy and well.ray:

Sending a million hugs to you Cherylink iris:


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## cheryl (Jan 3, 2008)

Thankyou Leanne and MsBinky :hug:

You know,i'm thankful that i can share things about my bunnies here with all you guys...it's just nice to have people whounderstand how i feel....i don't think my family fully understand....they know i'm crazy for my bunnies....but i know they still think it's "just a bunny"

Sharing everything here about Pippi has helped...from the time i very first posted about him and his health problems...at least i wasn't bottling it all up....i could get all my feelings out in the open.

When i very first lost my very first bunny Lollipop back in March 04,i grieved very badly for her,i couldn't get over her death and i never told anyone how sad i was,and i didn't know what was wrong with me,why i couldn't get over her death....it's because i didn't talk about it...i suffered all alone,i felt sad all the time,she was my first pet at the age of 30.....some people can handle it....but i cannot....oh and i wasn't a member of any forum back then either

So this is why i'm thankful for this forum,at least i can share things...and it just helps to get all my feelings out

Thanks everyone 

Cheryl


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## cheryl (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks heaps Jess :hug:....i know i felt very sad when yourRuby died...you know that i have loved your bunnies for a long time now....and i find it amazing how one can adore someone's bunnies that they have never met.....but it's the stories and pictures that makes it real...yourRuby was a very special girl...i loved her the moment i laid eyes on her 

I love everyone's bunnies here...they are such special and wonderful little creatures....we are all lucky that we all share something special with each other...our love for our bunnies

Thanks again Jess

Cheryl


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## Haley (Jan 3, 2008)

This is such a beautiful picture of your angel bunnies. At least you know they are together again.






I also wanted to mention, in case it would make you feel better, that most bunnies come into contact withec sometime in their lives (which is why most test positive for it). It only causes a problem in a select few who have weakened immune systems or another infection which allows theec to take over. So its possible that all your bunnies he came into contact with would test positive forec but would most likely never show symptoms.


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## cheryl (Jan 3, 2008)

*Haley wrote: *


> I also wanted to mention, in case it would make you feel better, that most bunnies come into contact withec sometime in their lives (which is why most test positive for it). It only causes a problem in a select few who have weakened immune systems or another infection which allows theec to take over. So its possible that all your bunnies he came into contact with would test positive forec but would most likely never show symptoms.



Yeah it does make me feel much better,but now i will just be praying that none of the bunnies will get sick or anything,i would hate for their immune system to become compromised in any way...but i do know that i may never face it again...i just couldn't stand to watch another beloved bunny go through that.

Also i had been thinking about Bunnicula's Gingivere.....my Lulu went blind and i had taken her to the vet to seek help,the Dr gave her a diabetes test but it came back negative,he couldn't tell me anything else,he said that there could be many causes for her blindness.....i'm starting to think what if she didhave EC as well....but she had no other symptoms like Pippi did....the only thing with Lulu was that she was blind,but then i have read that bunnies can be carriers of EC but don't show all the same symptoms like another bunny....this has just got me wondering now,and since she died of having seizures,i will never know for sure.....it will always be in the back of my mind now.

Cheryl


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## Offspring2099 (Jan 3, 2008)

So sorry to hear about the little one.


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## JimD (Jan 4, 2008)

Hi Cheryl,

I was away when Pippi went to the Bridge....somehow I had a feeling that I might be.
I went to the mountains for the Xmas week. The weather was lousy...what else to expect in the mountains during winter!
I only had one day that was nice....and the sunset was absolutely gorgeous!
It was Xmas day!



It was Pippi's "See ya later!":


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## cheryl (Jan 5, 2008)

Thankyou Offspring 

Ohh my gosh Jim...that is so so pretty....Yeah Pippi's goodbye :sad:

My beautiful boy.....thankyou Jim..that means so much to me...more than you will ever know

I'm going to post a very beautiful tribute to Pippi in the Rainbow Thread soon,i'm still doing his slideshow,and i have a lot to post in there about my Pippi

Cheryl


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