# Faking Scientific Research



## pamnock (Jul 10, 2005)

"In 1974, Dr. William Summerlin, a top-rankingSloan-Kettering Cancer Institute researcher, used a marker to makeblack patches of fur on white mice in an attempt to prove his new skingraft technique was working."

See entire news article here: *http://tinyurl.com/d9aeu*


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##  (Jul 10, 2005)

Pam theKink came up in black andisnt clickable lol . going tocheck it out now . Painting mice to provea point how sad .


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## pamnock (Jul 10, 2005)

Hi Gypsy,

Copy and paste the url into the address bar to go to the site (or type it in).

Pam


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## seniorcats (Jul 10, 2005)

*pamnock wrote: *


> Hi Gypsy,
> 
> Copy and paste the url into the address bar to go to the site (or type it in).
> 
> Pam




Fascinating. I am a research and assessment supervisor for agovernment agency. 3 and 1/2 years ago I had an employee whowas faking her research. Her prior supervisor was afraid ofconfrontation and did nothing even though the signs of faking wereevident. I had the job of back tracking almost 2 years of herwork. It too 4 of us 3 monthsof hard work todiscover the extent of her fraud.

She was immediately removed from the job by the Highway Patrol, firedand prosecuted. She jeopardized literally millions of dollarsin funding to our agency. Her actions caused asevere loss of faith from some of the agencies we serve. Ittook2 more years of hard work to gain the trustagain. Our job is very stressful and her actions caused analmost intolerable level of stress for the other researchers.The lives and careers of countless people were jeopardized.

All of could it have been prevented had her first supervisor done herjob properly. She was also fired for failing to follow agencyprotocals on internal control and responsibility. I do notfeel sorry for either person. They were paid well to a job ndthey cheated.


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## Carolyn (Jul 11, 2005)

:disgust: That's dispicable! :growl:

I hope he doesn't get just a smack on the hands for this. 

-Carolyn


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## Trina (Jul 11, 2005)

Fake research? :disgust:

Sounds really dum-dum for her to do that. But, it's a good thing that she was stopped.


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## tayasgram (Jul 11, 2005)

Hi all, I just read ythe article, and it reallyupsets me. I am an animal activist with PETA and I have attended aswell as organized demonstrations against labs that do exactly this sortof thing. These poor creatures are kept in tiny cages and virtuallytortured for their entire lives in the name of medial research. It isdespicable that someone would waste the life of one creature and causeseveral more to suffer because of her laziness!


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## seniorcats (Jul 11, 2005)

I should clarify - In my research and assessmentposition we are looking at federal and state laws as they relate tolong term care forseniors and disabled peopleandthe funding mechanisms. We deal with federal, state laws,their interpretation and implementation by our 88 counties.We do a lot of statistical data analysis. We don't in anyway, shape or form do animal research.In mydistrict we also look at hunger prevention programs primarily inAppalachian counties. I thought I may have createdsome confusion. Sorry if I did.


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## Kadish Tolesa (Jul 11, 2005)

Hi,tayasgram , about 3 years ago, I had an aquaintance who purchased 2English Angoras from a pet store. One was a white doe and the other wasa tort doe. This person with the angoras was sympathetic to PETA , butnot actively involved with said organization. To make a long storyshort, she was unable to keep up with the brushing, and ended up givingthem their "freedom", by leaving them in the middle of a large field ona farmer's land. When I heard about this , I really did not want to bearound her anymore...but I did get her number and call her ,once. 

She was rather sad aboutit, but said that they were better off. I didn't wish to argue my side,but I pointed out to her that they'd probably not last the night. Shestuck by her guns and would'nt go get them, so I was able to get her totell me where she left them. 

At least it ended o.k., Icalled the farmer and got his son on the line ; they had justbaled the hay 2 days previously,and said I could come andlook for the bunnies.

It took half the morning,but I located them behind a large round bale; just sitting there--theyactually hopped over to me.

The pet store gave metheir breeder's name, and I called her and gave her a description andthe E. angoras ear numbers. So I was able to return them to thebreeder,who was glad to get them back.

Sorry this was so long,but I'm wondering if PETA actually encourages rabbits to be let loose? The only things I know about PETA are news articles--someagainst. However , I don't support anyanimal cruelty--and feel that those who mistreat animals should'nt beallowed to own them.

My house rabbits arepampered and protected from predators....they seem happy andwell-adjusted. To be honest, I'd never let them loose "in the wild";I'd feel it was not responsible. I admit I don't knoweverything , though , and I do not mind beingcorrected --especially if it improves my bunnies lives!

KadishTolesaurplepansy:urplepansy:urplepansy:


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## pamnock (Jul 11, 2005)

Interesting point that you've brought upKadish. I've found that many animal "rights" PETAsympathizers actually knowsurprisingly little aboutanimals. It seems to be more about a power trip thancompassion.

Pam


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##  (Jul 11, 2005)

How sad howsome ones misguided way ofthinking could have turned out , 

Domestic animals shouldnt bereleased into the wilds to fend forthemselves how stupid of anyone toeven think for a minute theywould know how to survive .


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## tayasgram (Jul 12, 2005)

Hi all, Just to clarify, we at PETA do not lookdown upon people that have pets. Most of us have several. As far asfreeing them, we all realize that this cannot be done. Nobody shouldEVER take a domesticated animal and leave it outdoors to fend foritself. What we do is to fight for animal rights. We try to stop theneedless torture of factory farm animals, circus animals, and animalsused in entertainment or medical research.All we ever ask isthat these places comply with the animal welfare guidelines. You mightbe confusing PETA with those groups that storm into labs and releaseall the animals. Those poor creatures go from bad to worse. PETA isvery much OK with pets.

Peggy Ervin


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## pamnock (Jul 12, 2005)

"Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought on by human
manipulation."
Ingrid Newkirk - Founder, PETA
Washington Magazine, August 1986


"One day we would like an end to pet shops and the breeding of animals.
(Dogs) would pursue their natural lives in the wild...They would have full
lives, not waiting at home for someone to come home in the evening and pet
them and then sit there and watch TV."
Ingrid Newkirk - Founder, PETA




"...Eventually companion animals would be phased out, and we would return
to a more symbiotic relationship, enjoyment at a distance."
Ingrid Newkirk - Founder, PETA
Harpers, August, 1988


"In a perfect world, all other than human animals would be free of human
interference, dogs and cats would part of the ecological scheme."
PETA's Statement on Companion Animals


[ALF's activities] comprise an important part
of today's animal protection movement."
PETA statement - June 19, 1991

*ALEX PACHECO, CHAIRMAN, PEOPLE FOR THE ETHICAL TREATMENT
OF ANIMALS (PETA)*

"Arson, property destruction, burglary and theft are 'acceptable crimes' when used for the animal cause."
(Gazette Mail, Charleston, WV, January 15, 1989)

~~~~~~~~~~


When asked which he would save, a dog or a baby, if a boat capsized in the
ocean: "If it were a retarded baby and a bright dog, I'd save the dog."
Tom Regan
North Carolina State University
Q &amp; A session following speech
"Animal Rights, Human Wrongs"
U of Wisconsin-Madison
Oct. 27, 1989


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## pamnock (Jul 12, 2005)

More on what PETA really promotes . . .

http://www.undueinfluence.com/peta.htm


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## Carolyn (Jul 13, 2005)

Greetings, 

I'd just like to interject for a moment to reiterate that this forum isopen and welcome to All Rabbit Fanciers and people wanting to learn. 

We are grateful to have meat breeders, show breeders, pet owners, rescuers, and others that are thinking about adopting rabbits.

We are here to learn all that we can from each other; and we do learn alot - from conception to geriatric rabbits, we are here to teach andlearn.

Those who haven't read our Mission Statement, please do. You can find it in the "Top Picks" stickied at the top of this forum.

Enjoy. 

-Carolyn


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## FreddysMom (Jul 13, 2005)

Pam you should really have your own blog, book,library or something youprovide such a wealth of informationon a constant basis! I am always fascinated by your posts!


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##  (Jul 13, 2005)

*FreddysMom wrote:*


> Pam you should really have your own blog, book, library orsomething youprovide such a wealth of information on aconstant basis! I am always fascinated by your posts!




Right I do honestly believewith out Pam we wouldall be floundering in a bad caseof " where the heck dowe find such information , "Pam always comes thru for us .


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## pamnock (Jul 13, 2005)

:kiss:


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## Carolyn (Jul 13, 2005)

*gypsy wrote:*


> *FreddysMom wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Pam youshould really have your own blog, book, library or somethingyouprovide such a wealth of information on a constant basis!I am always fascinated by your posts!
> ...




Amen! :highfive:

-Carolyn


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## Kricket (Jul 13, 2005)

PAM! Wonderful information!Please don't be mad at me for saying that the founder of PETA, Ingridis an IDIOT!! My GAWD! 

And Carolyn, regarding what rabbits-only is about, well said as always! Hugs all around! Krick


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## robandcathie (Jul 13, 2005)

Thanks Pam for the awesome article. The belief system behind PETA would almost be humorous if it werent so sad.


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## Emmy-webby (Jul 13, 2005)

Very very interesting. Great thing that he got caught.


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## pamnock (Jul 13, 2005)

PETA tactics are very disturbing and they dobankroll terrorist activities. Theiragenda is about control -- not compassion. 

As I've said before -- I strongly support animal "welfare" -- not animal "rights". There is a significant difference.

Pam


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## Kadish Tolesa (Jul 14, 2005)

Hi, everyone......thanks for your replies !

Pam , you've put time andeffort into providing accurate responses --sometimes in the past Iwould get on the bandwagon about such-and-such an issue withoutresearching it first , then I'd have to eat humble pie in greatquantities ! Thanks for your wealth of info. 

There's nothing like thefounder's own words for an example. I have come away-- after readingthese quotations and articles--feeling chilled.

There is a ton of info.I_don't _know about rabbits ; and I thought Iknew everything because I had pet bunnies while growing up! Ha !!! 

Kadish Tolesa :rose:


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## Carolyn (Jul 14, 2005)

*pamnock wrote:*


> PETA tactics are very disturbing and they do bankrollterrorist activities. Their agenda isabout control -- not compassion.
> 
> As I've said before -- I strongly support animal "welfare" -- not animal "rights". There is a significant difference.
> 
> Pam




I do agree 100% with this statement as well. One has to be careful of extremists to that degree.

Thanks Pam.

-Carolyn


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## tayasgram (Jul 15, 2005)

Pam, You really should read everything beforeyou speak. Ingrid's view on companion animals, as she prefers to callthem is that aminal that would otherwise be free, should remain so andnot be put into captivity for our own satisfaction. Animals that havebecome totally domesticated such as cats and dogs CANNOT live wild andshould not be expected to do so.

She agreed with an interviewer that pet ownership is the moralequivalent of slavery, unless the animal needed shelter to beginwith. 

This is directly from the link you posted. On that happy note, I willbow out of this "slam session" and take my comments elsewhere. You guysreally know how to make a new member feel welcome!

Peggy


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## pamnock (Jul 15, 2005)

Because PETA funds terrorist activities andbecause they are a major concern of the FBI, PETA sympathizers andtheir manipulative agendaare not welcome here.

"Another cause of concern is the degree of financial support given byPETA to eco-terroristorganizations such as the AnimalLiberation Front(ALF) and Earth Liberation Front(ELF), both associated with firebombings and other destruction ofproperty, and described by the United States Department of HomelandSecurity as terrorist threats."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_for_the_Ethical_Treatment_of_Animals

http://www.cq.com/public/20050325_homeland.html



Pam


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## Carolyn (Jul 15, 2005)

*tayasgram wrote: *


> You really should read everything before you speak.




Back atcha. 

Sorry, but these things weren't said by Pam...they were stated_directly_ by the organization. Don't kill themessenger. Put the responsibility where it belongs..by thosewho said it.

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Jul 15, 2005)

"...Eventually companion animals would be phased out, and we would return
to a more symbiotic relationship, enjoyment at a distance."
Ingrid Newkirk - Founder, PETA
Harpers, August, 1988

This indicates to me that the companion animals already owned would beallowed to die of old age in captivity, but that no more companionanimals could be bred or owned. Eventually, as Ingrid stated,phasing out all companion animals.

Peggy's statement simply supported my informationand confirmed that Ingrid is against pet ownership:

"She agreed with an interviewer that pet ownership is the moral equivalent of slavery"



Pam


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## seniorcats (Jul 15, 2005)

I did notice the quotes were rather old - from14 to 19 years ago and no context. Personally, my own viewson many topics, from animals to politics have evolved and changed fromwhat I believed 14 to 19 years ago. While I am always willingto be accountable for what I say, whether it is, today, 5 years ago, 10years, 40 years ago - I may find some of it embarrasing, immature andnot reflective of my current views. The same may happen againin 10 - 20 years, if I live that long. I suspect it's humannature.

What I am trying to say is that people need to read more than onearticle, read and study more than one point of view, before they makeup their minds and let no further thought, knowledge enter. Iread the articles Pam posted and I went to the PETA web site toread. I expect I will be doing more research as my free timeallows. 

It is important that people, even the young folks here, learn criticalthinking. While I may admire and respect people I meet onthis board and in other forums for their knowledge, I could not simplyadopt their point of view with no other study. I believeeveryone is entitled to their opinion. However, I alsobelieve opinions should be based on as much information from as manysources as possible and not on a whimsy, someone else's opinion, whatyour parents or friends believe or 10 minutes worth of news.It doesn't matter whether it's rabbits, animal welfare//rights,politics, chidcare, ad infinitem.

I believe Peggy had information and points of view to share.I personally would like to see new avenues of study.SometimesI feel like I walk a fine line on various forumsbetween presenting my views and opinions and attempting to respect theviews and opinions of others. I am fascinated by otherpeople's views and knowledge.

I would hope we can all have open minds and continue our learning process.


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## pamnock (Jul 15, 2005)

Excellent post seniorcats  I agree that the information I posted was to support my point.

However, news articles came out within the past couple weeks about PETAsupporting terrorist activities, and the FBI's concern that theseorganizations are the most serious domestic terrorist threats.

This is from PETA's current website: "PETA operates under the simpleprinciple that animals are not ours to eat, wear, experiment on, or usefor entertainment."

This statement is taken to the extreme to prevent us to have_ any _interaction with animals.

A more recent statement from Ingrid . . .

"If anybody wonders about what's this with all these reforms, you canhear us clearly. *Our goal is total animalliberation*."
(Animal Rights 2002 national convention, US)


Pam


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## Bunnys_rule63 (Jul 15, 2005)

I just read that thing about pets living in thewild. I recently read a book called 'the pig that sang to the moon'. Inthis book the author also pushed this message, he said that there is nosuch thing as a free range chicken, i beg to differ as our hens havedestroyed all my mums flower beds and taken over the whole garden andare trying to take over the house, thats how much freedom they have.Animals enjoy our company, many pet owners know what i mean. Therelationship between a animal and it's owner is very special. I alsorecently read 'shy boy' by Monty Roberts, the mustang actually chose tobe with him then to be in the wild with his herd. Another example ofthe relationship between animal and owner. I hope i don't offend anyoneat PETA by posting this. In fact i agree with them on many points (e.gcircus animals).


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## seniorcats (Jul 15, 2005)

Thanks Pam, I'm glad we can have a civilized discussion. 

Of courseI support animal welfare, just as you do.There are also some aspects of animal rights I support. Iwon't enumerate them here because most are related to cats and notrabbits. Also, a lot of my beliefs are private just like myreligious and political beliefs.If we ever meet inperson, I'm sure we will havesome interesting topics todiscuss.

I have mixed feelings about animal rights and liberation and, for thecurious, I was a member of PETA from their founding 25 years ago andfor about 7-8 years after. My membership lapsed because myfocus changed to supporting local efforts, the no-cage, no-kill shelterwhere I volunteer andthe BuckeyeHRS.WillI read their web site - sure! Will I believeevery word without documentation - no!

I also have some mixed feeling about breeding butmost ofthose feelings are personal and I see no point in sharingnow. Also, I think my knowledge of professional breeding isstill very limited. How can I condemn or criticize when I amlacking in information? I do not support or condonethe irresponsible, amateur, indiscriminate breeding of mixed breedrabbits especially when there is little purpose to thebreeding. Having rescue bunnies has made me all too familiarwith that.

What bothers me the most about so many 'for and against' arguments isthe anger that is generated. Neither side listens, learns oris persuaded by shouting, rudeness, bullying, name callingandbad behavior.

I also feel it is incumbent upon the adults on the forum to set a goodtone and a good example for the younger, minor members.Parents should feelconfident there kids won't be exposed tosome foaming, raging adult's bared backside.


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## pamnock (Jul 15, 2005)

*seniorcats wrote: *


> Thanks Pam, I'm glad we can have a civilized discussion.




Hey -- I've been know to act in a civilized manner on occasion :wink:

Pam


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##  (Jul 15, 2005)

I am known to be as subtle as a brick , 

I was going to respond to thisthread but I have decided ifeveryone thinks its so great tobe associated with peopleand porganizations who are onthe top of a list for knownterrorism far be it from meto try and change their minds .


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## Stan_and_Jane (Jul 15, 2005)

*pamnock wrote: *


> "She agreed with an interviewer that pet ownership is the moral equivalent of slavery"




Oh how true that is, I just don't think she had her head straight about who is the slave!


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## Kadish Tolesa (Jul 16, 2005)

Stan-and-Jane , I am SLAVE to 7 adult-ishbuns and 6 promised babies. Two are indoor buns and the rest are outdoorshow buns.

All I ever hear is..." mywater bottle's getting low....how about some more pellets ? ....sometoys WOULD be nice..."

And so on ....!!!!!!

No rest for the ....slave!! 

Thanks for the neat post ;I'm almost tempted to print it and save it ! 

Kadish Tolesa inkpansy:


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