# Breeding Does Back to Back



## tundrakatiebean (Oct 10, 2007)

I'm writing a aper for a composition class I'm taking and I would like to write it on breeding does back to back if I can find enough information. It's an argument and persuasion paper. With my limited view of the issue I would disagree with it. I was hoping that all you fabulous breeders could give me your views and information on it. I know Peg has a firm stand on this, which is what got me intereasted in this topic. Also I would like to interview some breeders for this paper.



Thanks guys!


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## RAL Rabbitry (Oct 11, 2007)

It all depends on the doe. 

I have some does that are bred ona regular basis. I wean their litters and

evaluate their condition and it they are in very good weight and don't seem

dragged down they are rebred. Some does do get dragged down a bit and

are given a rest before being rebred. 

Most does do best on a regular breeding schedule instead of once or twice

a year. They seem to have more problems kindling if they have too long of a 

rest between litters.

Roger


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## BlueGiants (Oct 11, 2007)

I agree with Roger, It all depends on the doe and her condition. Some does thrive being bred back to back, some don't. 

We had a REW Mini Rex doe that used to get severely depressed after every litter. We had to keep her bred 3 times a year. (And she lived to the wonderful old age of 9, living out her last years bonded with one of her daughters.) Most of our Mini Rex do fine with 1-2 litters a year.

Regardingmy Giants, I never breed a doe more than twice a year. (usually only once a year)The main reason being I leave babies with their mom for 10 weeks. (Yes, they'll still nurse9-10 weeks... if momma will let them.) Then the doegets at least 10 - 12 weeks to recoup. I weigh them and won't breed them again until they are up to their best weight. If all is well, they will get bred again (assuming the weather is goodandI have room for the babies.)

But I am not breeding for "production". Theintense breed backyou are refering to is done mostly by the "meat" industry, with specific breeds, developed and bred to tolerate this level of reproduction. They breed the doe 2 weeks after kindling, while she is still nursing a litter. The litter is weaned at4 weeks, she has 2 weeks "off" and kindles again. I don't know any show breeders that follow that kind of schedule. (Keep in mind that none of those babies are expected to "grow up". They are not concerned about bone density or type, GI stasis or anything else.) 

I have heard that some "rabbit mill" breeders, thatsupply the pet store trade, also follow the "immediate breed back" schedule. But we all know about what that produces... we see it every day in pet stores and markets across the world. :nonono:

JMHO and what works for me.


Edited to add: Thereis a booktitled Rabbit Production that has excellent information about Breedingfrequency and production... authors: McNitt/Patton/Lukefahr/Cheeke

Inspite of what the book refers to, some of the most comprehensive and scientific data we have comes from Rabbit meat producers. They have a financial stake in producing the most rabbits, most efficiently, healthy and with the fewest complications.


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## Flashy (Oct 11, 2007)

I'm no breeder, but I do know that when Sandy had finally been separated from her Dinkies she was ready to go again, I think she's a glutton for punishment, lol.

Does are supposedly most open for breeding 0-72 hours after kindling (or so I have read, someone might correct me there), so maybe nature intended them to be constantly bred? Not saying it's necessarilyright though.


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## Jenson (Oct 11, 2007)

I agree with everyone. Depends on the condition of the doe. I won't breed a doe more than 3 times a year.

Flashy, I think nature did intend them to bred constantly, maybe that's why wild rabbits have such short lives.


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## Flashy (Oct 11, 2007)

*Jenson wrote: *


> Flashy, I think nature did intend them to bred constantly, maybe that's why wild rabbits have such short lives.


I guess that's what happens with prey animals


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## TinysMom (Oct 11, 2007)

Oh wow.....well first of all - while I am a breeder - I don't have the mindset of many breeders. I'm not criticizing them or anything like that - so please don't take this wrong.

Many breeders I've met have gotten into breeding through 4-H or having meat pen rabbits or something like that. The majority of them do not have a problem culling rabbits by putting them down, etc. and the mindset I often see is that the animals are "livestock". I'm NOT knocking that mindset and I'm NOT saying that every breeder is that way. Just the majority of breeders that I have met (to date) are like that.

I got into breeding because I fell in love with lionheads and rabbits in general and knew what they had done to lift me out of my depression. So I started breeding on a limited basis - mainly to get some pets that I could share with others (for a small fee to cover my food costs, etc). I didn't want a full-time breeding operation going on.

My problem with "back to back" breeding as I call it - is when I see breeders have a litter and then rebreed the doe right after weaning at around 4 weeks of age or something like that. I've known breeders (lionhead breeders) who would breed their outstanding does every month - foster the kits onto a not so great doe and turn around and rebreed that doe again so she was havnig kits every 31 days or so. 

I am mostly out of breeding now - I may breed a few does once in a while. I know of a few other breeders who feel like I do - that they prefer to only have 3 litters per year from a doe at most....and that is the way I'll go IF I stay in breeding. 

But I'm finding that I don't like breeders (I'm talking about lionhead breeders here - not ALL breeders). I find that I don't fit in well with them because to me my rabbits are my PETS and not just my livestock. I won't put a rabbit down just because it has the wrong color eyes or whatever.

I'm going to PM you the names of a couple of breeders you might want to contact for your paper. You can tell them I sent you...

Anyway - I wish I could be of more help. I can see where breeding does right after kindling could help them have easier births....but my does tend to have easy births anyway. They're larger girls and I try to breed them so that they'll have a larger litter with smaller babies. Some of my does love being mamas and they will get bred more often. Some of my does aren't great mamas - and they become my pets or I'll rehome them. I don't want to pass on to my offspring the temperament of someone who isn't a good mama.

Once again - I'm not speaking about ALL breeders. There are several great breeders on this board and many of them know far more than I do. I just deal with my rabbits more as pets than as breeders...

Peg


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## polly (Oct 11, 2007)

I agree with Peg. it was the love of the breed that got me into it. but my does are only bred max of 3 times a year, i rotate my does round so a couple have a litter then as there babies are getting ready to be separated i would mate a different couple of does up. I also find it a stress that so many people kill unwanted babies and prefer to breed for type as i need to which is a bit more than i probably will do in the future as i need to establish my lines just now. 

But i certainly agree that some does are ready to go more often than others


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## tundrakatiebean (Oct 12, 2007)

Thank you so much guys! I'll share my paper with anyone who wants to read it when I'm finished.


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## pamnock (Oct 12, 2007)

I think you'll find this webpage very informative http://www.fao.org/docrep/x5082e/X5082E07.htm

There is a lot of info near the bottom of the page on breeding schedules.

In general, many breeders breed for 4 litters a year from a doe.

The book "Rabbit Production" also has information on breeding schedules.Breed-back schedules include breeding the doe 7, 14, 21, 28, 35 or 42 days after the litter is born. Show breedersoften breed the doe after the litter is weaned at 6-8 weeks (42-56 day breed-back.) This keeps the doe at a good production rate, while still being able to maintain good condition. 

It is true that does are very receptive immediately after giving birth. Rabbits are a prey animal and designed for optimal production of litters to keep the food chain well stocked. Do keep in mind that wild rabbits generally have a seasonal drop in production, so are not intensely producing litters year round.

Hares exhibit a phenomenon called "superfoetation" in which they become receptive within 5 days of giving birth and can conceive and carry a double litter during this time.



Pam


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## tundrakatiebean (Oct 13, 2007)

Thank you for the Website Pam!

If any other rabbitries/breeders want to have a weigh in on my paper in an official-I-might-quote-you kind of way you should feel free to answer these questions and e-mail or PM them to me (my e-mail is [email protected]) Thank you again to everyone who helped me out with this 


What breeds of rabbits do you feel you specialize in?
How long have you been breeding?
How did you get into breeding?
Do you breed for show, to sell for show, as pets, because you just love rabbits or a combination of these?
How many litters do you have in the average year?
How many litters would you suggest per doe in a year?
What would you define as âback to backâ breeding?
How often do you think is too often to breed your does?
Do you have strong feelings for or against âback to backâ breeding? Why?
Do you think there are health effects for over breeding a doe?
Do you think that there are any affects to kits that are products of âback to backâ breeding?
Do you have any other comments you would like to add?


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## tundrakatiebean (Oct 13, 2007)

I'm starting to freak out...I think I'm not going to be able to write my paper on this because I can't find enough academic sources to back up my argument (my teacher won't let us use internet sites)...I'm thinking about doing why females should be spayed if they aren't breed instead because I already have a rabbit medical text that goes into detail on it...


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## pamnock (Oct 13, 2007)

You should be able to find some library books with rabbit breeding info, or have your library get them in for you.

Pam


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## tundrakatiebean (Oct 13, 2007)

They don't have any good books on rabbits at my school library and they can't get anything in under two weeks time and this paper is due on monday...


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## Pipp (Oct 13, 2007)

I can't imagine the school not wanting you to quote from studies that are on university internet sites, they're technically library material. (Purdue has a lot of excellent material). 

I'd also check the gov't websites under agriculture. 

That's all very academic!



sas:?

PS: the link Pam gave you is a UN study taken from a document deposit repository, it would also be available in the larger libraries, doesn't that count?


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## tundrakatiebean (Oct 13, 2007)

If it comes up on a library search as an article then we can use it, but otherwise no websites what-so-ever. She also asked up to write a 3 page academic paper with at least one source per page over the weekend which is not enough time to get resource help at our library... I don't think she really knows what she's doing...


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## JadeIcing (Oct 14, 2007)

Yea maybe you should switch topic this time and try and do this one another time.


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## tundrakatiebean (Oct 14, 2007)

went to the public library and grabbed a lot of rabbit breeding for profit books. I'm going to try and pump this paper out before tomorrow, we'll see how that goes.:?


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## tundrakatiebean (Oct 15, 2007)

I just finished it...I don't think it's very good, but at least it's done.



We'll see...


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## tundrakatiebean (Nov 15, 2007)

My teacher asked for a copy of my paper to keep :shock: and here I was thinking it was a piece of poo, I think it's just because she doesn't know very much about rabbits so I knew I could 'fabricate' some information...


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## JAK Rabbitry (Nov 17, 2007)

What breeds of rabbits do you feel you specialize in? Fre

How long have you been breeding? 11 years? Roughly?

How did you get into breeding? I was just always fascainted with the idea that 2 living things make more living things. Our unofficial 4H Rabbit Club motto was ''2 bunnies make 4 bunnies and 4 bunnies make more bunnies"

Do you breed for show, to sell for show, as pets, because you just love rabbits or a combination of these? A nice combo. I just love my critters. I like to see them have families of their own and everyone likes to see their child succeed, hence why they go to show. I like to try and better the breed. I sell the ones that don't make the show cut for pets and I keep a waiting list on hand so I just call the next person in line when I have a ''pet'' to sell. 

How many litters do you have in the average year? oh geez I don't count. I try to have at least 2 a month. So like....24?

How many litters would you suggest per doe in a year? Depends on the doe and the breed too, really. For my own does, Dutch-wise I like to get 2-3 litters per year out of them. I like to give them a nice long break, usually like 1-3 months after each litter, before she is bred again. If she loses her litter though or too many of the litter die, I'll give her remaining baby (usually if it's down to one or two babies) to a foster mom and I'll re-breed that doe in a day or two. 

What would you define as âback to backâ breeding? Breeding a doe directly after her litter is weaned.

How often do you think is too often to breed your does? PRetty much what's been said, it depends on the doe. I feel bad breeding a doe so often though. I think i've only once in my life bred a doe right after her litter was weaned. She was a great mom and in great condition after her last litter and I really wanted Juniors for convention so I rebred her. 

Do you have strong feelings for or against âback to backâ breeding? Why? I'm not that fond of it. I mean personally I'd hate to spend my whole life either pregnant or nursing but I have two friends that saying being pregnant was the greatest tiem of their life. One of them really wants another baby. I know it's a lot of stres on any living body though, which is pretty much why I don't do it.

Do you think there are health effects for over breeding a doe? I'm worn out just taking care of everyone and they're not even my babies! See above answer. 

Do you think that there are any affects to kits that are products of âback to backâ breeding? If the mother is in ill health because of it, worn out, not able to produce enough milk, I see that as a possibility. 

Do you have any other comments you would like to add? JESSE FLAHERTY! NUMBA ONE!!!! 

peace


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