# Now I'm lost!!



## FallenRabbit (Jul 24, 2012)

I asked my mom tonight. Right when I asked she began to shake her head and looked mad. She said "You will hate it! They piss on walls and stink!" She was NOT willing to have a rabbit. But then she said "But IF we were to get one where would we put it?" I said in my room. She said Never. She said you would have to make a place outside, but it will bring flies and bug. 
So I could try to arrange something in the garage where it is a bit more protected, just not as much air circulation...
She said the dog will be completely jealous and will hate it.
So my questions is outside in an enclousure that I will either make or buy. I will go all out. Ill buy a tarp for shade and just make sure he is protected...
Or try to get to keep it in the garage where there is the washer/drier... 
What do you guys think?!
She also said "Summer is not the time to get a rabbit. Heat kills animals." I asked if I could bring it inside ( make a cage inside for 'play time' ) and let it inside... no anwser. I don't know if she heard me or was just to annoyed to anwser. 
Comments?


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## wendymac (Jul 24, 2012)

Maybe show her the House Rabbit Society's page, letting her know they can be litter box trained, etc.? For housing outside, if the shed has windows you could always put fans in, although I have no idea how hot it gets in there.


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## Nancy McClelland (Jul 24, 2012)

Try to get her to go to a local rabbit rescue and see them first hand. Everyone that comes over to our house doesn't believe we have as many as we do till we show them proof. Rabbits , once neutered are pretty much smell free unless you're not diligent with cleaning and all those things you need to do daily.


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## MyBabyHasPaws (Jul 24, 2012)

She's stuck on the stinkyness. My mom was very much like that. I had to have my rabbits outside on the patio for a while as a kid. It took my mom months to realize how serious I was and how much time I was spending on our patio for her to finally agree to let them live in my room. 

Print out proof that shows fixed rabbits dont stink. Have you expressed to her how badly you really want this?

It doesnt sound like you got a firm NO. I think you need to build your case better. 

This isnt the right advice here, but right around this time my tears started rolling and I started begging lol. Not saying to do that! Thats what I did though lol.


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## LakeCondo (Jul 24, 2012)

A visit to a shelter would be a good idea IF she'll agree to go. Offer to do some chores if she will go. As they say, seeing is believing. A first step might be her looking on petfinder.com or adoptapet.com. This will help both of you pick a good shelter to visit, though make it clear you're not doing it to choose a particular rabbit you want to get NOW. Go further afield than your area if necessary to see shelters that don't keep the rabbits in cages all the time.

Many people keep rabbits outside in a hutch & run in much more extreme weather than San Diego has.

Tell us about the dog, though. If it's a hunting breed, you WOULD have to keep them apart, but it wouldn't be jealousy. Many people on the site have dogs & rabbits together with no problems. The dog becomes the rabbit's ally & protector against us furless creatures. You probably can find some videos of rabbits & a dog on YouTube or Pinterest.

But I think you've got an opening in your mother's shell of resistance. And if you're willing to move the rabbit around between the yard & the garage [all the while hoping that you can transition to inside, but keeping quiet about that], it sounds like you have a good [though not 100%] chance of success.


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## FallenRabbit (Jul 24, 2012)

Well I just asked what it would take to set it up so I could have one. I never got to my major points ( like how I will pay for it, etc. ), I just wanted to see what she would say. 
My dog is a black lab (Sophie), at her old home she had a cat. When we went to meet her the cat was very shy and didn't like to be out in the open. Sophie tried to get the cat out (with her paw) so she could play with it and the cat clawed her. She is really sweet at heart, just is very strong. She is like 7 years old and has hip problems. She can't get up off the ground if we go on a walk... Right now she is on her 'old lady' meds.
I got a parakeet a while ago and my dog was jealous of the attention it was getting. Then he got out one time, I was right there, and my dog didnt even get up... She is over the bird now.
Outside (for the small amount of time outside) she will sit and watch the wild birds eat her food.
She is a hunting dog (not good at all), she just follows us and sits. She gets to go (and when she doesn't she ignores us) but isn't the best at it. The only thing she catches in the desert is dead things  Nasttyyy!
All this week it will be in the 70s.. It is mostly in the 90s when it is hot. (when it is that hot I'll sneak it in)


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## agnesthelion (Jul 24, 2012)

Well I can understand maybe her not wanting it in your room. I'm not sure how big your room is but I couldn't sleep in the same room as Agnes...she is noisy not because of the smell, just noise! Lol but thats just me. You might be fine with bun in the same room. If your mom is against it because of the smell, you just need to clue her in on some things......like....
I think Wendy had a great idea...show her some websites! Heck, you could even show her this one. Maybe even show her some of the blogs...to show how people really form great relationships with rabbits. She might be of the mindset that they are stinky cage animals...which is not the case unless of course you don't clean up after them. Also, I agree with talking to her about how fixed rabbits are less stinky and most rabbits are litter trained! Her comment about peeing on the walls makes me think her experience with rabbits was with an unfixed male marking or spraying, which doesn't happen if fixed.
Many people do have their rabbits outside in worse weather. I though San Diego rarely got hot?....? And of course winter wouldnt be an issue. It would just be more work on your part spending time with bun outside. And then bunny would need free run too. Which if she is against bunny coming inside at ALL then you would need to construct something safe outside for free run.
I would just keep doing your research so when she brings up these points you can educate her on things. 
Good luck. Keep us updated!!


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## FallenRabbit (Jul 24, 2012)

She cleaned rabbit cages when she had a job at a pet store. It gets hot in the summer, but is fine the rest of the time. I do have a enclosure that is 5 feet by 5 feet that we could somehow put a wire fence around it so that the rabbit could live there. I would try to keep it in the patio (Shadee!) but if I couldnt I would put the 'hut' under a big tree in my yard so he has shade.


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## LakeCondo (Jul 24, 2012)

Rabbits dig, so an outdoor enclosure would have to have wire mesh on the ground that grass could grow through or be buried. But on a cement patio would avoid this problem. Especially if it had an indoor-outdoor rug on it.

Do a search here for run/runs & you should find some discussions that include pictures.

As far as noise goes, it depends on the rabbit's age & temperament. Honey is 2 years old & I hear her only when she's chewing on her hide box or tearing up paper.

Rabbits start getting stressed at about 85`, but I assume that depends on the humidity & whether or not there's a breeze. Ceramic or marble tiles feel cooler than the actual temperature. I bought 2 ceramic oval food platters for Honey, keep one in the freezer & put down the cold one a number of times a day when it's very hot. I chuckle to see her spread out in the serving tray. Also adding ice chips to the water helps keep rabbits comfortable in hot weather.

Labs usually are ok with rabbits. They are retrievers, not killing dogs, which is why she's interested in dead things. The hunter shoots the duck & the dog jumps into the marsh, gets it, & brings it to the hunter.

Maybe writing things down will help. You could give a copy to your mom, to keep things on track & to keep the drama down.


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## FallenRabbit (Jul 24, 2012)

I've been writing notes about everything about rabbits, I'm up to 11 pages now.


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## agnesthelion (Jul 24, 2012)

Good for you Hunter, that has to be convincing as to how much you want this!


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## FallenRabbit (Jul 24, 2012)

Okay so if the rabbits were not able to live in the pation, I have a plan. I have a 5 foot - two inch wooden box that I can use. I was thinking of buying 4 wooden rectangles (one for each corner of the square) and connecting them to the box vertically. I would also get wooden beams to put along the top to staple the wire onto the top easily. I would wrap some wire around all the 4 foot wooden beams. I would also put the wire on the top and bottom. Is that okay?
If that makes sense..


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## LakeCondo (Jul 25, 2012)

I don't think I really picture what you mean, but wood is a problem because it can be chewed or get soaked in urine & start to smell. And if the wire is on where the rabbit walks it would need padding to protect the feet [unless it was wire mesh with grass growing through it, so the rabbit wasn't really touching the wire] And it depends on the wood, too, if it's a safe wood to chew on or not.


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## FallenRabbit (Jul 25, 2012)

Okay so now i'm thinking a LARGE dog cage or a NIC cage. I'm not sure if a NIC cage will work well outside (on the patio) but I could have the NIC cage in the garage. The dog crate could be used outside, in the patio, or in the garage. I will ask where the rabbit could be (pation or garage) either way I will make an area in my room to have my bunny be active. The only thing is to adopt a rabbit it has to live inside (NOT IN THE GARAGE) so unless I can convince my mom to adopt and have it inside, I will need to buy a breeder rabbit. I could also tryy to find a rabbit on cregslist (fixed at the leastt! But I would like it to be littertrained..)
I'll ask her for more info. tonight.


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## MyBabyHasPaws (Jul 25, 2012)

A large dog cage would work. I had Bugsy in one for a bit. I added a second level and he really loved it. Bugsy had a lot of free roam time too, about 3 hours a day a little more on weekends.

I hope my kids do their research like you are when they get older. The effort you're putting in this is awesome, I would so get you a rabbit if I could! lol

Good luck Hunter!


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## FallenRabbit (Jul 25, 2012)

How do you add a second lvl? :?
Do you mean buy two and like cut a hole in one? LOL so confused


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## LakeCondo (Jul 25, 2012)

I think Maria means a shelf in it.

A youngster wouldn't be litter trained at 1st & would confirm all your mother's fears. Plus would take so much care at 1st, will be hormonal for months before you can get him or her neutered.

I think San Diego weather is such that I'd think the shelters are being too rigid there in insisting the rabbit be inside. But I think the garage would count as being inside. In fact I'd assume it was & say you plan to keep the rabbit inside without being specific. I'm not usually a believer in the ends justifying the means, but when the shelters are turning away new rabbits because there isn't room for them, I think it is ok to fudge a bit.

Your mom DOES like animals, doesn't she, or are the other pets there only because you wanted them? I ask because another person who I assume in your age range had a sick rabbit & he or she wanted to know what home treatment would work because the mother said rabbits didn't need to go to the vet. You don't want to be in this situation.


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## MyBabyHasPaws (Jul 25, 2012)

I agree with Orlena.

I remember one time my sister bought me a pair of hamsters for my birthday, AGAINST my mom! She hated my hamsters, she thought of them to be stinky and useless. I thought otherwise. I was at school one day and when I got home to check on them they must have gotten in a really bad fight. One hamster was missing an eyeball, completely gone. I ran to my mom and begged her to take him to the vet, her response was "You can just buy another one" It broke my heart and I cried for hours, I had to beg, plead, and I even called her a animal abuser (I was 14 give me a break! lol) She eventually caved and took him, mad the whole way and fussing. He passed away at the vet and my mom was so mad at me, she called me a "waste of money!" I'll never forget that and when I talk to her now about it, she said we were broke and she used bill money to take him to the vet. 
You dont want to be in that situation. It was YEARS ago, but i still remember it, and it still bothers me.

As for the second level... I ended up buying a small sized dog crate for our dog. It comes with a divider to make it smaller. That divider worked wonderfully as a 2nd level in a XL dog crate! I just had to hook it to each side, it fit really snug. I added a piece of plywood on top and covered it with his rugs and blankies. He loved it!


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## FallenRabbit (Jul 25, 2012)

Well let me say that I asked my mom today and she said: "They can't live in the house or garage. They are an outside animal. They will pee and poo, making the house stink. If you don't want them to live outside we have to end the discussion."
She does like animals (she worked on a farm too)just she feels like it is gunna be all HER job, even though it isn't. And then if it isn't she really likes the animal.

I don't even know how I'm even going to make a pen outside for a bunny. I DON'T want to pay $115 for a 'hutch' that is the size of a subway foot long... I mean I could MAKE a pen of NIC cubes for $50 that is x4 the size of the crappy 'hutch'. It doesn't make sense.

I'm thinking also about how I don't want to bring up a animal in a 'bad' habitat. I don't feel that rabbits should be outside, but I can't convice anyone that. So now I'm wondering if it is even worth it to have one that is outside. I'm thinking of it in the eyes of the animal right now.


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## agnesthelion (Jul 25, 2012)

FallenRabbit wrote:


> I don't even know how I'm even going to make a pen outside for a bunny. I DON'T want to pay $115 for a 'hutch' that is the size of a subway foot long... I mean I could MAKE a pen of NIC cubes for $50 that is x4 the size of the crappy 'hutch'. It doesn't make sense.
> 
> I'm thinking also about how I don't want to bring up a animal in a 'bad' habitat. I don't feel that rabbits should be outside, but I can't convice anyone that. So now I'm wondering if it is even worth it to have one that is outside. I'm thinking of it in the eyes of the animal right now.



^^^im sorry you can't convince your mom  it's tough but a part of growing up. Believe me, I begged my mom for every pet under the sun. I was allowed a few over the years, but got told no alot. Now that I'm a mom, I understand. It's parents rules. Kids don't pay the bills and everything the child does is technically the parents responsibility. I'm not saying you won't take care of the rabbit, but the parent has to assume responsibility in case. It's her house, her rules.

As far as a rabbit being outside, I agree with you. I would never have my rabbit outside, even in San Diego. It's just a personal opinion of mine. I believe pets should be inside as a part of the family. So me personally...I would not get a rabbit if it had to be kept outside.

Again, sorry your mom doesn't see your point of view


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## FallenRabbit (Jul 25, 2012)

agnesthelion wrote:


> FallenRabbit wrote:
> 
> 
> > I don't even know how I'm even going to make a pen outside for a bunny. I DON'T want to pay $115 for a 'hutch' that is the size of a subway foot long... I mean I could MAKE a pen of NIC cubes for $50 that is x4 the size of the crappy 'hutch'. It doesn't make sense.
> ...


I created a new thread to see what people say about rabbits outside.


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## MiniLopHop (Jul 25, 2012)

You can show her my blog: www.minilophop.wordpress.com

I have 6 house rabbits and 2 cats. Their interactions are a hoot! Lots of very cute photos.


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## LakeCondo (Jul 25, 2012)

If you could get her to visit a place where there are inside rabbits she wouldn't be so stubborn.

And I wouldn't want to keep a rabbit outside, but people do. Including where there's lots of snow. They just make sure it's insulated enough, the water doesn't freeze, etc. And in your case, there is the strong hope that by next summer your mother would see how good they'd be inside.

Your mother is lucky that it's this you're arguing about. My sister & I thought it might be good to have a 'bad' sibling, to take the pressure off of us. Of course that was a short-sighted thought, as we'd now be having to deal with this sibling's addictions, children, etc.


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## FallenRabbit (Jul 25, 2012)

Okay so if I was to get an outside rabbit should I buy a $115 hutch, make an NIC cage (will it work outside?), or make my own rabbit area? By my own I mean make a wooden area for the rabbit to be in.


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## agnesthelion (Jul 25, 2012)

I don't think NIC would provide enough stability or shelter for outside? Maybe others can chime in on that.

Wood soaks up urine. As far as a hutch, what does the one you are interested look like?

If you have an outdoor bun, where would bunny get exercise? And realistically....how much time can you see yourself spending outside with bunny? Between school and homework and friends and sleeping and eating and watching tv and ALL the things you do inside......can you really see yourself outside for a few hours each day to give bunny companionship?


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## FallenRabbit (Jul 25, 2012)

agnesthelion wrote:


> I don't think NIC would provide enough stability or shelter for outside? Maybe others can chime in on that.
> 
> Wood soaks up urine. As far as a hutch, what does the one you are interested look like?
> 
> If you have an outdoor bun, where would bunny get exercise? And realistically....how much time can you see yourself spending outside with bunny? Between school and homework and friends and sleeping and eating and watching tv and ALL the things you do inside......can you really see yourself outside for a few hours each day to give bunny companionship?


That is what I was thinking.

Well it is like $145 just for a small hutch. I'm going to talk to my mom again because it depends if I'm going to be paying for the hutch or what. My first plan was to pay for everything if t he rabbit was inside, but it is an 'outside animal'...

Well I will bring the rabbit inside (if my mom buys a hutch then I can make a smaller NIC cage for the rabbit to have play time in or something) and I can play with it outside. Right now I am thinking of building my own on the ground pen.


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## MyBabyHasPaws (Jul 26, 2012)

Aw i'm sorry..

A NIC wouldnt really work outdoors. It wouldnt provide good shelter from the elements and hutches are expensive for nothing. It would probably be a better idea to build a hutch, but that seems like a lot of work.


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## FallenRabbit (Jul 26, 2012)

MyBabyHasPaws wrote:


> Aw i'm sorry..
> 
> A NIC wouldnt really work outdoors. It wouldnt provide good shelter from the elements and hutches are expensive for nothing. It would probably be a better idea to build a hutch, but that seems like a lot of work.



Well my thinking was that I have a dog carrier and a dog igloo that I could use as shelter. I could choose one, I'm probably going to use the carrier in summer and the igloo in winter. Then make something for him to run around in. 
Igloo:

http://www.google.com/products/cata...a=X&ei=M8YQUNGgDquWjALdiYHIDw&ved=0CFQQ8wIwAA

It is almost exactly like that.

For the carrier it is most like this:

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=plas...4&start=23&ndsp=41&ved=1t:429,r:24,s:23,i:226


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## LakeCondo (Jul 26, 2012)

I would think one or the other would be enough, along with a run. And you'd need a carrier anyway, for vet visits etc.


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## FallenRabbit (Jul 26, 2012)

Okay, Thanks! 
Im going on vacation in 2 weeks starting this weekend.( When we get back, that is when we could get a cage and stuff... if we were to get one.)


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## 1357rabbitlover (Jul 26, 2012)

Hiya Hunter, my bunnies live outside in a huge run that is 12 ft long, 7ft wide and 5.5ft high so i can get into it. Here's a picture http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/312031_2439039093565_1996702492_n.jpg - they now have a shed attached too but i haven't got a picture just yet. So having a shed would work as they are not too expensive and give bunnies enough space, shelter, and they are living outside like your mum wants. I'm sure if your bunnies lived in something like this then both you and your mum would be happy, as they are living outside but also in a good sized living space.. I know what you mean! My mum never wanted me to get a bunny then one day she said fine! But she also thinks that bunnies belong outside, so my bunnies live outside, maybe show her this picture or go onto youtube and watch videos of 'shed's converted into bunny homes'? Hope this helps!


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## FallenRabbit (Jul 26, 2012)

1357rabbitlover wrote:


> Hiya Hunter, my bunnies live outside in a huge run that is 12 ft long, 7ft wide and 5.5ft high so i can get into it. Here's a picture http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/312031_2439039093565_1996702492_n.jpg - they now have a shed attached too but i haven't got a picture just yet. So having a shed would work as they are not too expensive and give bunnies enough space, shelter, and they are living outside like your mum wants. I'm sure if your bunnies lived in something like this then both you and your mum would be happy, as they are living outside but also in a good sized living space.. I know what you mean! My mum never wanted me to get a bunny then one day she said fine! But she also thinks that bunnies belong outside, so my bunnies live outside, maybe show her this picture or go onto youtube and watch videos of 'shed's converted into bunny homes'? Hope this helps!


That looks like an awesome house.!
Do you remember how much it cost to make it?
I really like the amount of space it gives to the rabbits. I will have to make it a little smaller ( one rabbit ) but I hope it will look similar to yours.


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## 1357rabbitlover (Jul 27, 2012)

The run cost about Â£90 - the same price as a small 4ft hutch!


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## LakeCondo (Jul 27, 2012)

And is so much better than a hutch. A hutch AND run would be nice, but that's costly.

Maybe something like an old doghouse would be all you'd need as a shelter. find one in a yard sale & change the opening to large enough you can reach in to clean & then put some kind of flap there maybe, for weather protection.


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## FallenRabbit (Jul 27, 2012)

LakeCondo wrote:


> And is so much better than a hutch. A hutch AND run would be nice, but that's costly.
> 
> Maybe something like an old doghouse would be all you'd need as a shelter.Â  find one in a yard sale & change the opening to large enough you can reach in to clean & then put some kind of flap there maybe, for weather protection.


Ya I have a dog carrier and an igloo that I could use.


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## 1357rabbitlover (Jul 27, 2012)

A dog carrier has holes in so would let rain in if it was to rain, probably best getting a dog house of some sort or something, lol


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## FallenRabbit (Jul 27, 2012)

1357rabbitlover wrote:


> A dog carrier has holes in so would let rain in if it was to rain, probably best getting a dog house of some sort or something, lol


Well I'm talking about that for summer.. It wont rain in summer for right now. The holes are on the sides and front so rain will not be that big of an issue (I will cover it with a tarp so FOR SURE no water enters.

(BTW I have had a frog for 7 years that I raised from a tadpole. He has died last night. 7 years, a good life, R. I. P. )


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## agnesthelion (Jul 27, 2012)

Aww sorry to hear about your froggy friend hunter


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## Dulmit (Aug 2, 2012)

I would suggest if you are serious about getting a bun that you try to build your own outdoor enclosure. Note that it may be harder to adopt a bun if you plan to house it outside, since some rescues will only adopt to indoor housing conditions. 

I feel that it would help show your mom that you are serious about a bunny and willing to put in the work required.

It would also allow you to make something that would be larger.


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## FallenRabbit (Aug 6, 2012)

Dulmit wrote:


> I would suggest if you are serious about getting a bun that you try to build your own outdoor enclosure. Note that it may be harder to adopt a bun if you plan to house it outside, since some rescues will only adopt to indoor housing conditions.
> 
> I feel that it would help show your mom that you are serious about a bunny and willing to put in the work required.
> 
> It would also allow you to make something that would be larger.


If I get one I will make an outside enclosure myself. I don't think I can get a rabbit from a rescue if it was to live outside.


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