# Death after spaying?



## theevenstarlight (Dec 6, 2006)

Hi, my pride and joy little rabbit was spayed the day after Thanksgiving and died a week later. The vet thinks she had the E. Cunicili parasiteand could not handle the stress of the spay. Has anyone had any problems after spaying? I'm going to get a new rabbit but I'm scared about this.  Any advice and/or successful spay stories are appreciated!


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## cleverpony (Dec 6, 2006)

When a bun has surgery it is always stressful -for them and us! But I don't think you should let this keep you from having another little friend. Many shelters adopt out buns who have already been spayed or neutered, perhaps this would be a better option for your state of mind?


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## Pipp (Dec 6, 2006)

Oh no, I'm so sorry! :sad:

Did she stop eating and/or pooping after the spay? Did your vet do a lot of spays before her? Was he experienced? Did he give her pain meds? 

Deaths under anesthetic and after surgery are pretty rare these days when spaying bunnies, although they do happen. I think my vet estimated he had only lost three older and/or sick bunnies out of "zillions" of spay-related surgeries. 

I'll let someone else comment on the E. Cunicili question, I still have trouble wrapping my head around that one. I'm not sure why he'd think she had theparasite,Iguess it depends on her symptoms (head tilt? paralysis?), I think testing only indicates exposure. But again, I'm not clear on this. 

So sorry for your loss. :cry2



sas


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## theevenstarlight (Dec 6, 2006)

She was acting fine right after the spay, until about 10 hours later, when she started shaking violently and wouldn't let me touch her. It went downhill from there. Took her to the emergency vet and she said my bun had a fever and gave her Baytril and some fluids (this was on Saturday). On Sunday my bun wasn't eating on her own so I force fed her some baby food with a syringe. I took her in to the regular vet on Monday and they fed her critical care and she was doing better until Thursday. She was then basically paralyzed. On Friday morning she had a seizure and died. 

The vet who did the surgery was very experienced and has been seeing rabbits for 20 years I think. Everyone recommends her, and she hasn't lost a rabbit to a spay, except mine, but I don't know fifths counts if it's a parasite.

I'm having an autopsy done, which will take a few weeks, but at least I will know.

I loved her sooooooooooo much. She was only 6 months old! She always binkied and licked me.


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## theevenstarlight (Dec 7, 2006)

And it was weird because I told the vet I was nervous and asked how many rabbits she had lost to spaying, and she said none. I told her I didn't know what I'd do if something happened to my bunny. I had a feeling that my bunny might Bethe first.


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## Pipp (Dec 7, 2006)

Yeah, I guess it could have been an EC problem, but again, I'm not all that knowledgeable in this area. 

Some people don't agree with me on this one (rabbit health is not an exact science, and it's still very much a developing field), but this,to me, isone reason I always suggest that members get painkillers for their bunnies after spays and neuters. 

THe vet will give them a shot that's supposed to last 24 hours, but never does. The bunnies seem to be doing fine until the painkillers wear off, and then they go downhill for awhile, and will slowly get better as the pain decreases. But some bunnies react so badly to the pain, they don't get better. 

That said, some bunny people and their vets say that pain killers like Metacam have caused their bunnies to lose their appetites, so it's one of those 'maybe it will be great but maybe it will hurt' issues. I guess it depends on the individual bunny and there's no way to tell. 

My guess -- and it's just a not very educated guess -- is that the pain meds wore off causing stress and lowering your little girl's immune system, and a pre-existing condition, possibly EC, got a foothold and caused major problems.

I just know thatPipp really reacts badly to pain -- more so than most rabbits. Shewas a very sicklittle girl after her pain meds wore off, and Inearly lost her. Since then I've realized how quickly shefolds when she's in pain -- even if it's just a molar spur.

But it sounds like your vet did exactly as most vets do -- they really don't seem to want to prescribe anything because they don't want to take a chance on the bunny not eating. 

I do think I will continue to suggest that people try it,though. There are ways of getting a bunny toeat,but there really isn't any other way to stop the pain.

Again, I'm so sorry you losther. Please let us knowthe results of the necropsy.It'sreally helpful to others. 

sas :saddened


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## TinysMom (Dec 7, 2006)

I think we've lost two does that I can remember after spays....I forget the first one as it was months ago but then Just Jack lost his little girl too after a spay. 

I think it is more common to lose a doe after a spay than a buck after a neuter because the spay is more intrusive.

Peg


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## Maureen Las (Dec 7, 2006)

I think a spay is more difficult than a neuter too. I knew a vet in Ill. before I moved here who was learning to do rabbits. She did fine with neuters but on her first spay ( a shelter bunny) the bunny died right when she finished the procedure. She now refers clients to other vets and said she will never try a spay again.If I was to pick a Dr. to do bunny surgery I would look at the same criteria as you do for people surgeons..someone who does a lot of them successfully . When you do things over and over you get better and better and with a rabbit thats very important


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## Watermelons (Dec 7, 2006)

Allright, i think ive been scared out of having my little guy Done :?


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## TinysMom (Dec 7, 2006)

It isn't bad for guys...its only for the does. 

I was scared about having my three bucks done but they were fine.

Peg*

watermelon70hi wrote: *


> Allright, i think ive been scared out of having my little guy Done :?


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## Watermelons (Dec 7, 2006)

What would be the Pros and Cons to Not having him done?


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## aurora369 (Dec 7, 2006)

Hey Watermelon70hi,

I see that you live in the lower mainland! I currently live in Vancouver, and used to live in Maple Ridge. 

I also foster for Small Animals of BC, and have had 7 of my fosters spayed/neutered, and the rescue has had hundreds of bunnies spayed/neutered. Pretty much the only ones that are lost are those that are sick or too old before going in.

If you get pre-operation blood work to check organ functions, your bunny will be very safe.

I can recommend some vets to you, if you would like to PM me your location.

As to pros and cons:

Pros: no surgury

Cons: spraying, strong smelling urine, hormonal behaviour like excessive humping, testicular cancer, excessive marking...

And if your bunny is neutered, you could get him a bunny friend and bond them! SARS does bunny dating and helps out with bonding...

--Dawn


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## Pipp (Dec 7, 2006)

Oooh, don't think that one or two losses make sit not worth the risk, but if anybody is really torn, I suggest very careful pre-op screening, including a blood test. 

And yes, Jack lost Cala during a spay, but that was because she had a pre-existing abnormality with her liver and kidney -- he probably would have lost her anyway.

The risk is pretty much equal re: problems if they're not spayed or neutered. 



sas


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## Watermelons (Dec 7, 2006)

Whats a good age to get it done at then? I was told my guys 6-8 weeks i beleive... i think that's right ... 

I know somebody Who Does some work for SARS, She found me a good vet when i was having problems with my current "bird vet"


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## aurora369 (Dec 7, 2006)

Oh that's good!

Which vet are you seeing now?

I would recommend around 4 months for a smaller bun, and 6 months for a larger sized bun.

Or if the testicles descend earlier it can be done then.

--Dawn


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## theevenstarlight (Dec 7, 2006)

*Pipp wrote: *


> That said, some bunny people and their vets say that pain killers like Metacam have caused their bunnies to lose their appetites, so it's one of those 'maybe it will be great but maybe it will issues. I guess it depends on the individual bunny and there's no way to tell.
> 
> My guess -- and it's just a not very educated guess -- is that the pain meds wore off causing stress and lowering your little girl's immune system, and a pre-existing condition, possibly EC, got a foothold and caused major problems.





> I was giving her Metacam for the first four days, andwhen she started shaking really violently the first nightthe emergency vet said to give her half a dose of Metacam, which I did, andshe stopped shaking an hour later. Sorry I didn't mention pain medicine before; I was trying to keep a long story short. I dobelieve that pain had something to do with it though. My next question is: Should I take my new rabbit to be spayed to thisvet? Should I wait until the autopsy to decide?Like I said, I know people who have had their rabbits spayed by herwith no problem (my cousin had 2 does spayed), so I'm hoping that itwas just a rare case of some other issue with my rabbit.


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## theevenstarlight (Dec 7, 2006)

Oh, another thing with getting females spayed...I've heard from many sources that they have a 70-80% of developing uterine cancer within the first two years. Those aren't good odds, which is why I had my rabbit spayed.Granted, it didn't turn out like I thought it would, but I tried to do the best thing for her.


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## sthvtsh (Dec 7, 2006)

I had NO idea it had that much stress on the rabbit. =/ I feel so bad for you! That must be heartbreaking..


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## naturestee (Dec 7, 2006)

I'm so sorry for your loss. :sad:

I'd wait for the autopsy before you have that vet do another surgery for you. Complications like that are rare. Almost all of the spay/neuter deaths I've heard of have occured during the surgery/anesthesia due to heart conditions or in one case a severe liver problem. The one I know of where the rabbit died after the surgery was a clear vet mistake, which she admitted immediately after the surgery. The intestines had been nicked and caused a massive infection.


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## theevenstarlight (Dec 15, 2006)

I got the preliminary autopsy from my rabbit: it looks like she had heart disease, with some liver damage. I felt relieved because I thought it was something I had done.I'm glad I have closure now. I will always miss her!


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## Maureen Las (Dec 15, 2006)

I am starting to believe that it is worth necropolises on bunnies. I, too would be relieved in knowing that Ihad done nothing wrong. Looks likenesses was right on with heart and liver problems. It is a terrible loss but your bunny needed to be spayed..there is absolutely nothing that could have been done differently. It is still very sad because it was unexpected and because you loved her and wanted the best for her.:hug:


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## theevenstarlight (Dec 15, 2006)

I cried a lot because I loved her and she loved me. I got another bunny because I would just be too lonely without one. I know she won't be the same, but at least I will some companionship. She is turning out to be really nice. She is helping me to get over my last bunny.


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## mambo101 (Dec 15, 2006)

My first rabbit Stephie died just after her spay. The vet said it was a reaction to the anesthetic. The vet said it was the first one he lost in 3 years and he is one of the top exotic vets on the east coast. I still plan to get Danteï¿½ and Ziggy altered in the near future. It's gotta be done. Stephie did have problems with parasites before the spay, but the vet said shouldn't have had anything to do with that. I tend to blame it more on the fact that she was a bunny mill pet store bunny. 

Sometimes I thinks Stephie's spirit is with me in Dantï¿½ because he hasa lot of the same habits that she had, and the same loving personality.I think you did the right thing in getting another bunny.


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## naturestee (Dec 15, 2006)

I'm so sorry. At least you know what happened now, and that it's not your fault or the vet's fault. :hug2:


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