# Help - Runt not being fed



## MsBinky (Dec 25, 2007)

Okies...

So all my lil grandbabies are doing fine except one. This lil guy (we'll call it a boy for now) is the runt of the litter and he's being neglected due to the others tossing him aside. 

He was really skinny and wrinkly (compared to the others) this morning so I decided that he absolutely should be fed right there and then. So anywho, i considered hand feeding him but why? Mama is lactating and taking care of them and that baby needs Mama's milk. So I took the mom out, set her on a towel on a chair and gave her a bunch of hay. I took the lil one out and placed him under and right away he freaked and started wobbling around looking for her teats.

Now, I have never experienced babies feeding and I found it odd how they go back and forth from teat to teat. I was pretty amazed by it. I'm quite happy to live this experience. 

Anywho, after about 10 minutes the mom got restless and I didn't want any injuries resulting so I put the baby back... He did look more plump than before but he is obviously smaller than the others.I have one which is too plump :grumpy:That one will not be the one I will adopt. Hmph. Bully. Lol.

So am I doing the right thing? How often should I do it?


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## Flashy (Dec 25, 2007)

Does only feed for about 5 or so minutes so it sounds like your lady is a good mum 

You can do it that way, or you can take all the babies out the nest (and put them somewhere warm) and leave the runty in and put mum over the nest and stroke her.

Some breeders do it for the runts maybe two or three times a day until he has caught up.

It sounds like you are doing a brilliant job


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## TinysMom (Dec 25, 2007)

You did GREAT....I would do that about 3-4 times per day (on your days off) and twice a day when you're working (morning and night) to give him an extra chance to nurse....

Peg


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## MsBinky (Dec 25, 2007)

Is it evil for me to wish the bully stomach cramps (ok small ones obviously!) he learns not to keep all the milk for himself? 

Anywho, I really worry about the lil one. I have always had a thing for runts. Lets hope it's a girly. 

Ps: Flashy, I gotta go for now but I'll pm ya back this evening. Thank you for everything :hug:


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## Flashy (Dec 25, 2007)

Unfortunately, what you are witnessing is survival of the fittest.

If it makes you feel better, out of my litter of seven from June, the smaller ones turned out bigger than the ones who were originally bigger, and the ones who were bigger are now smaller than the others.

Thebuns are just doing what comes naturally, that's not his fault.

And PM me back anytime you want, and I'll reply as soon as I can.


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## BlueGiants (Dec 25, 2007)

Sometimes the littlest one gets shoved aside. And sometimes he has digestion issues that cause problems. 

I'd put him under mom twice a day, in between the regular feedings, if you can. If she usually feeds early in the morning (6 am?) , put him under her for 5 minutes around 9 or 10 am. If she feeds in the evening (6 pm?) put him under her around 9 (so he goes to sleep with a full belly). Just give him 5 minutes. (10 minutes isa long time for momma to be sitting still. She will drop enough milk for him in the first few minutes). It's good that you could see that his little belly was full. 

If he still fails to thrive, there could be other problems... neurological, digestive, etc. Don't be upset, but there is very little you can do for them if they have problemsso young.


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## aurora369 (Dec 25, 2007)

Everyone has given you great advice!

Just keep giving the little one an extra hand up, and he/she should catch up soon.

--Dawn


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## RAL Rabbitry (Dec 26, 2007)

What breed are the parents? Are they both breeds that are small and carry

a dwarfing gene? If they are the kit may carry a double dwarfing gene

which is fatal. The double dwarfing gene causes the kits that carry it to

have an incomplete digestive system and they fail to thrive.

Roger


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## BlueGiants (Dec 26, 2007)

Any update on the little bugger? (Hate the term "runt"...) Is he nursing? Gaining any weight? How's momma handling it?


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## MsBinky (Dec 27, 2007)

Sorry about the term but I wanted to specify that it wasn't a peanut.

No both parents are english spots. He's still really skinny and I still do the feeding thing with him and the mom but he doesn't seem to be gaining the weight. I'm really worried about the lil guy and I really really cannot bare to lose him. Is there a point in hand feeding or should I just continue whatI am doing?

Thanks everyone for your advice, I really appreciate it.:hug:


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## Flashy (Dec 27, 2007)

I would think that if he is not thriving while getting extra feeds from mum, then there is even less chance of him surviving if you hand rear him.

It can be really devastating to lose a kit, but don't right him off yet. Maybe try getting mum and giving him more feeds every day. It could be that like others have said, he has internal problems, so there might be no way to save him.

Please look after yourself. You know where I am if you need a chat.


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## BlueGiants (Dec 27, 2007)

You can try to suppliment if you want. But I'd keep up the extra feedings on momma anyway, and slip thesupplimental feedings in between.

But if he isn't gaining with the extra feedings, I'd suspect a developmental problem... maybe a congenital defect or injury from birth. Sometimes the smallest one is from the last egg fertilized, and it may have been hours or a day younger than the siblings. These little guys get born when the others are, but he wasn't quite ready to meet the world. These can be born with digestion issues, such as an incomplete digestive tract. They literally do not get any nutrition from what they eat.

Don't blame yourself, and don't hold it against the mother. (Most of the time, these are the ones the motherpushes out of the nest. She knows something is wrong.)


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## TinysMom (Dec 27, 2007)

Definitely keep up the extra feedings with mom 'cause her milk is best for them...but you can try to supplement if you want.

I hate to say this - but there are times when you just can't save a baby no matter how hard you try (and I always try). Its always discouraging and heartbreaking and I weep over each of them. The comforting thing is that I have petted them and loved on them and I know that during their short life here on earth - they were loved and I suspect they know it too.

Peg


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## Flashy (Dec 27, 2007)

This is only vaguely on topic, but if you are supplementing a kit, what should you use and how should you do it?


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## MsBinky (Dec 27, 2007)

In fact, the lil guy was born the next day. He and my other lil one but the other is thriving.

I agree that I highly doubt I can help if the doe's milk isn't helping. I know that there is nothing better than the mum's milk. I thought I'd ask just so I wouldn't feel like I am neglecting him. I feel terrible. Of course, he happens to be my fav one, so obviously something had to go wrong. :cry1:

He better make it or else I think I will be done with bunnies. :grumpy:He's so cute, I really want him to make it. 

If I do supplement and keep up the other feedings, is there a chance of overfeeding and making things worse? It really bothers me because I know for a fact that he is feeding when I put him with the mom. Maybe he is a peanut? I didn't think so but right now he is half the size of the others. It's like, he was big enough the first day but hasn't grown... 

Thanks for the encouragement. However with losing Wiggles, I just can't bare to lose another I get attached to. I was looking forward to getting a girl bunny from Ashton's relative but they were stillborn. Nothing seems to be working out.


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## Flashy (Dec 27, 2007)

Honey, you are not doing anything wrong, and you are not neglecting him. It's natural you would get atatched to him, when you are doing so much for him.

I know it seems like nothing is working out, but there are positives about, like the fact that the doe is doing a great job of being a mum, and is raising other kits, maybe you could keep one/some of those. Your other buns are doing well and are still by your side through this time, that is also a positive.

If this little one dies, it is not your fault. If you stopped havin rabbits that would be a tragedy. You have given this little guy, Wiggles and all the others, so much, that taking that opportunity away from others would be a travesty. I'm not saying don't have a break, maybe a break might help, but don't rule it out totally. Rabbits can help in times of grief, so try to draw them close if you can.

I know you are feeling wretched, I can relate to how much it hurts, please know you are not alone though, even if you feel it. My PM is, and will remain open, if you ever need a chat or anything at all.

Hang in there honey.


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## BlueGiants (Dec 27, 2007)

Oh dear, you're not doing anything wrong! If you want to supplement, I suggest using KMR (Kitten Milk Replacement Formula). The one that I had the best luck with was made by a company called Farnam. It even comes with colostrum. Use a small kitten bottle with nipple or a small feeding syringe and start out with 1-2 cc. Care has to be taken not to allow the kit to inhale any formula, I wrap them in a towel and try to hold them upright and make them reach for the nipple. If they get any in their lungs, they develop pneumonia very quickly and die.

But I suspect that he has other issues that are impeding his getting nutrition from the doe's milk. Some breeders call it a FTT syndrome (Failure ToThrive). Sort of an unexplained failure to grow normally. It could be immunity issues, it could be a dozen things. 


Don't blame yourself. Unfortunately, they don't always all make it. And it's always so sad. But don't give up on your bunnies. (You may have another girl in there.) But this world needs bunny people like you!


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## TinysMom (Dec 27, 2007)

You may want to check out this website...

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/orphan.html

Peg


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## MsBinky (Dec 27, 2007)

I got mycable for the cam so you can see the difference. These were taken on the same day:

The lil guy:







Compared to the others:






And the lil guy with another bunny:






The lil timbit:


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## Flashy (Dec 28, 2007)

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, they are SO cute!

To add another spin on it, is it possible he has a dwarf gene but none of the others do? Which might make him look smaller.

Hope was a lot smaller than the others out of my seven (hence the name Hope), and he's totally healthy. Hopefully your cutie will thrive and catch the others up. I'm REALLY hoping he does.


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## Pipp (Dec 28, 2007)

Definitely not my area, but English Snots don't carry dwarfing genes, do they?

And yes, you can overfeed kits, just not sureabout those little guys. 

Hope he makes it. 

sas :clover:


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## Flashy (Dec 28, 2007)

I don't think they do, no, but do we know what the father is? If the father is a dwarf breed it's possible some may have the dwarf gene I guess. I was pretty much shooting in the dark though.


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## BlueGiants (Dec 28, 2007)

Usually, the kit would have to inherit a dwarfing gene from BOTH parents for it to be a fatal flaw. 

I really think the little guy just has a developmental problem, possibly an under developed digestive system. (They usually don't make it past 2 weeks) It's so sad to have to deal with it. Keep him as comfortable as possible and keep up the extra feedings. Just know that you did everything you could for one so young.


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## Flashy (Dec 28, 2007)

I didn't mean about it being a fatal flaw, I just meant it might look smaller if it has a dwarf gene that the others don't have, so might look smaller.

I have to say I hope you are not right about it having fatal digestive problems, but I know you know what you are talking about.

This is going to be hard for you MsBinky, so please use all our support *cuddles*


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## MsBinky (Dec 28, 2007)

Flashy,

I understand what you are saying. Hehe. You are right about us not knowing about the father, although it should be one from her past litter but then again, were they pure? But anywho, the problem is not merely that he is small, but rather that he is awful skinny.I can see his spine clearly even though I now know that he is being fed. At first I thought he was being pushed aside and not being fed but I was wrong.

Pip,

OMG you should have seen the looks you got from Bam-Bam and Flore... English Snots!:laugh: LMAO I almost choked on my olive pit Thanks for that!

BlueGiants,

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. It's really really sad and i really hope I don't have to go through this. My gut tells me you are right though so now I just fear having to check on them. i would so cuddle it so much if I didn't think it would be colder with me than with the others.


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## MsBinky (Dec 28, 2007)

Ok, not to get anyone's hopes up, but he is looking plump today! I can't feel his spine! Ok, he is obviously still much smaller than the others, but he is much better than he looked yesterday!

And well, someone just confirmed my thought that maybe he simply hadn't gone to the toilet so... 

Anywho, I am still hopeful.


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