# Pipp Has Major Poopy Butt :(



## Pipp (Mar 12, 2007)

I'm sick,haven't slept morethana couple hours (at best) in the last 24, and now Pippdecides to get a massive case of poopy butt. She hadnearlya two inch wad of cecalson her bum, and thereare long chunks of the stuffall overmybedand floor. 

She was particularly needy earlier today (ie:grooming meconstantly, which is one reason I haven't slept) before I realized howbad it was, now she's under the bed, althoughshe came runningout for the rattle of the oat bag (I only gave her a flake or two).

Her timing sucks.  



sas


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## Haley (Mar 12, 2007)

Poor Pipp and sas. Does she get this often? Maybe shes stressing because youre sick?

I hope you both get well soon.:hug2: Let us know if theres anything we can do to help. :sickbunny:


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## AngelnSnuffy (Mar 13, 2007)

Please get well soon, guys. Poor pipp.:bunnynurse:


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## Pet_Bunny (Mar 13, 2007)

When I had poopy butts,(mushy, like pudding) with Pebbles, I cut wayback with her vegetables andlimited her pellets. Igave her more pumpkin and madesure shegets herhay.Oatshelped firmup the poops. 

I don't give Pebbles as much vegetablesnow, as I found out there is abalance between having too muchvegetables and getting poopy butts.

Make sure Pipp stays hydrated. How is her teeth?

Rainbows! Worried about Pipp. :cry2


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## JimD (Mar 13, 2007)

Oh. Pipp!Your mom needs her rest right now!!


It's no fun being sick AND having to tend to the buns...(very punny, huh)

Maybe a dry/cornstarch bath would work for now....until you feel up to a full out attack on the poopy-butt.

Feel better sas!

~Jim


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## JadeIcing (Mar 13, 2007)

Poor Pipp! Maybe she knows you are sick and itis stressing her. I am and Connor wants to stay with me. (He does everytime I am sick)Problem, Bree came with poopy butt, Ringoneeds to be cleaned. Guess whos job that is. Connor can't be with metill I am done with them. So he is in his cage tossing everything. 

urplepansy:ink iris::clover::rose:inkpansy:I feel for you Sas.Major hugs. urplepansy:ink iris::clover::rose:inkpansy:

Aliciaand The Zoo Crew! (2007)andBreethe The Moo Cow Bunny


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## Carolyn (Mar 13, 2007)

Greetings Pipp!

So sorry to hear that you and Pipp aren't feeling well.Sometimes Tucker gets empathy sickness when I'm down and outtoo. As you know, keep an eye on the cecals. If itgoes on too long, it could be a sign of other problems. PetBunny's advice to limit the pelletsandvegetablesand increase the hay and perhaps give some greenleafy vegetables. 

As to you....sleep sleep sleep! That and plenty offluids. I hope you are soon over this. It's such ahorrible thing to feel that badly. You forget whatit's like to feel "normal". 

You two take care of each other. Will say a prayer thatyou're soon back on your feet chasing those little innocent bunniesaround the house again.

:runningrabbit::run:


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## jordiwes (Mar 13, 2007)

Lots of good advice given.

Jordi is the poopy butt queen and we're contsantly playing trial anderror to see what will cause the poopy butt. Did Pipp get into thecraisins ?

:kiss:to both of you.


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## Haley (Mar 14, 2007)

sas, how isthe little princess today?


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## Carolyn (Mar 14, 2007)

*Haley wrote: *


> sas, how isthe little princess today?




and how's Pipp too?


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## Pipp (Mar 14, 2007)

So sorry for not updating... I actually wasn't sure... 

But now that I finally got her litterbox clean (and a new spot, thebottom shelf of my bookshelf :growl she has poops the size of apinhead, so I guess not so good. 

She's still blowing cecals. Definitely cecaldysbiosis. My fault, seeing as I was too sick tomake her salad the other night and gave her extra pelletsinstead. :cry4:

PB, thanks for the reminder re: the pumpkin, she ate a small bowl ofsome yesterday, I'll be trying more of that today. 

Carolyn, I'm trying leafy greens, she never eats hay. She'sin lockdown at the moment. I'm hoping she'll get bored enoughto eathay. (Ha). I'm going to have to seeif eating pellets is worse than eating nothing. All I couldget her to eat last night was a few carrot tops and a couple squareinches or so of kale. (I did drag myself out to the veggiestore for all her favourites even though I had a house sitting on mychest). 

I'll have to go out again for some pedialyte. 

Thanks for all your wishes. 

sas :imsick:


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## Pipp (Mar 14, 2007)

Ack! No poops at all, and she's noteating a thing. She's lethargic and only wants to hide underthe bed. 

I really should have been on top of this days ago, she's probably in full blown stasis now. :banghead

I'll be hauling out the syringe. She won't even eat pellets now. :nerves1

I still never know in these cases whether it's better to feed her morestarch and sugar over nothing at all. I may be able to gether to eat oats and drink juice, but that's what started theimbalance. :sigh 

I guess for now it's pumpkin.



sas


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## Haley (Mar 14, 2007)

IMO any food is better than no food. Can you slurry the pellets and pumpkin together and force feed?


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## JadeIcing (Mar 14, 2007)

[align=center]ray:ink iris:urplepansy:Feel better fast!inkpansy::rose::kiss:[/align]


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## jordiwes (Mar 14, 2007)

Oh no! Don't blame yourself, Sas.

ray:for both of you.


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## HoneyPot (Mar 14, 2007)

Any poop yet??

:litterfew:

________
Nadia


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## Pipp (Mar 14, 2007)

:no: :litterempty:


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## JadeIcing (Mar 14, 2007)

leaseplease:arty0002::litterhealthy:leaseplease:arty0002::litterhealthy:leaseplease:arty0002::litterhealthy:leaseplease:arty0002:


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## Michaela (Mar 14, 2007)

Sending healing ((((vibes))))) to Pipp!!

ray:ray:ray:


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## Spring (Mar 14, 2007)

How's Pipp doing? 

Come on girl! Get that litter box full! And a hug to Sas too! Hope you feel better soon! 

:hug1

:litterhealthy:


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## naturestee (Mar 15, 2007)

Any updates? Is she pooping yet? :cry2

She's Mocha's lookalike (and actalike), so she has to get better!


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## Pipp (Mar 15, 2007)

I just posted this on Etherbun... 

Pipp, my little dwarf, will NOT eat hay, even under threat of 
starvation. 

This week, she's had a very bad case of cecal dysbiosis which now 
seems to have also caused full blown stasis -- she's not eating or pooping 
today. (Yesterday her real poops were very tiny). I just syringe fed 
her some canned pumpkin mixed with a very little bit of Oxbow pellets, 
but she's just excreted a horrible mass of cecals, maybe with a little 
mucus (hard to tell seeing as it all stuck to her bottom, and she's a 
black bunny). 

Is the pumpkin exacerbating the cecal dysbiosis? If so, what are her 
other options? I had been getting her to eat some leafy greens up 
until last night, but now her appetite's gone completely. 

I can't get her into the vet until tomorrow, so I need to feed and 
hydrate her here, but what should I be feeding her? Pumpkin? A slurry 
mix? A probiotic? Is Pedialyte okay? (I have trouble finding 
unflavoured, may have to go with flavoured). 

Help! 

sas


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## naturestee (Mar 15, 2007)

I vote for pellet slurry, with water and/orPedialyte. Flavored Pedialyte has a lot less sugar than fruitor fruit juice (and pumpkin is technically a fruit too), I looked it uponce. If you have Nutrical on hand, add a little to thepellet slurry for the vitamins, or add a tiny bit of Vitamin B complexand Vitamin E.

You could put a probiotic in the pellet slurry too. It won'thurt, I'm just not a believer in them with rabbits. Doeswonders for mykitten Lilythough.

Have you given her any simethicone? Gas may not be theprimary issue, but it could be building up due to the GIslowdown. So gas meds might make her feel morecomfortable. Heat is a good idea too.


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## Haley (Mar 15, 2007)

Anything yet? Come on Pipp ray:


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## Carolyn (Mar 15, 2007)

*Pipp wrote: *


> I just posted this on Etherbun...
> 
> Pipp, my little dwarf, will NOT eat hay, even under threat of
> starvation.
> ...




Hi SAS,

Because it is sweet, pumpkin CAN cause excess cecal production.However, given the situation, I would let the bunny guide decisions. Ifshe is taking the pumpkin/pellet slurry, I would continue feeding it.If she's fighting it, then perhaps she knows it isn't what is best forher. 

A probiotic isn't a bad idea. Pedialyte is good... don't know whatflavors it comes in, but if you can't find unflavored, trust yourinstinct on choice of flavors. Another thing one of my vets recommendsis Ensure... go with the strawberry flavor. It provides nutrition andhydration. Give about 3 cc at the time. If she likes it, offer more. 

Good luck with this... I'm sending positive energy with this post.

Keep the faith. I won't be near a computer for the next fewdays, but I'll be thinking and praying for your little one and you tohave a speedy recovery together. 

-Carolyn


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## Bassetluv (Mar 15, 2007)

Sending positive vibes and prayers for Pip....and for you too, Sas....

I've used Pedialyte for Raph in the past, and he tends to love theapple flavor, if that's any help. I can't recall what other kinds theyhaveat the moment (if you can't get the unflavored)....Afraid I don't have any suggestions other than all the great ones thatpeople have posted...

C'mon Pip....get better quickly...:hug1


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## aurora369 (Mar 15, 2007)

I believe I saw some unflavoured pedialyte atPharmasave once. You could check there if you have one nearby. But I've also used the flavoured stuff and it workswell. Penny would beg for some, and slurp it out of an eyedropper. 

So maybe Pip will be interested in the pedialyte? It's more flavoured than sugared, so I don't think it's that bad.

--Dawn


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## Haley (Mar 15, 2007)

I use apple flavored pedialyte and max loves it.I mix that with pellet slurry and pumpkin. I used it once when he hadrunny poops and it really helped. Banana and oats helped too.


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## Pipp (Mar 15, 2007)

Pipp'sat the vet right now, intensivecare. They're force feeding her a hay slurry (serves herright), pumping her full of drugs and fluids.I'mplanning on bringing her home tonight, I can do the care thing here,she'll probably be under less stress here.

Carolyn, absolutely excellent advice, thanks so much. Thanks to all who posted. 



sas


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## Haley (Mar 15, 2007)

Lots of prayers for our little girl. Ive been worrying about her all day. ray:

Are you feeling any better yourself? You have a lot on your plate rightnow, let me know if theres anything I can do to help. :hug2:


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## Pet_Bunny (Mar 15, 2007)

*Pipp wrote: *


> Pipp'sat the vet right now, intensive care.


:cry2 Now I gotto sit by the computer and waitfor further news.

Poor Pipp has to endure another visit to the vet. Pray all goes well.

Plain low fat yogurt was recommendedwhen Pebbles was on antibiotics to keepher stomach in balance.

Rainbows! ray:


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## gentle giants (Mar 15, 2007)

Special prayers for Pipp and for you right now!I know how you feel, I had the same situation come up about three weeksago when I had a bad sinus infection.


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## MyBoyHarper (Mar 15, 2007)

Poor Pipp. Prayers for you and him.

Is Pipp prone to stasis and blockages, like Harper?


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## ahri22 (Mar 15, 2007)

Poor Pipp  I do hope that she gets all sortedout quickly!! Hopefully all the fibre in that hay slurry will help gether digestive tract moving properly again!!

Hugs
Fiona


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## maherwoman (Mar 15, 2007)

OH NO!!!! :shock:

I suppose this is what happens when I'm not on the computer constantlyfor a couple days. (I needed a break from everything the pastcouple days.)

I'm so sorry I didn't catch this from the beginning, and couldn't thuscontribute to all the prayers and love that was being given...

BUT...I am most certainly giving an OVERABUNDANCE of love and prayers now...

Oh, Sweet Darling Pipp...c'mon Sweetheart...we're all praying androotin' for you...fight a good fight, little baby!! :boxing

Be strong, little Baby!!:muscleman:

You've got three bunnies and two kitties and three humans over here rootin' for you!!

arty0002:arty0002:arty0002:arty0002:arty0002:arty0002:arty0002:arty0002:
:goodluckleaseplease::litterhealthy::grumpy:melodramatic:heartbeat::kiss:ray::bouquet::hug2:


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## maherwoman (Mar 15, 2007)

I just captured this picture of Flower the other day, and thought this was most definitely the best time to post it:

We're all praying for you guys...


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## naturestee (Mar 15, 2007)

Oh no! Do you have her home yet?

Come on, baby!ray:ray:ray:ray:ray:


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## Pipp (Mar 16, 2007)

We're home. She won't come out of hercarrier, so I'm not sure how she's doing -- other than she's not veryhappy with me. She was washing herself and lickingthe towel, so she's not toolethargic, which isgood. No poops though. 

They said she actually ate some Critical Care while she was there --which is stunning. She's always absolutely hated thestuff. 

The vet, like me, is at a loss about whatto do for a bunny who won't eat hay. 

He started off being a bit of ajerk (like my vet can besometimes), saying 'whatare cecals? I don't know what thatis', when I told him I wasn't sure if her 'diarrhea was real poop orcecals. (Of course he knew I was referring to'cecotropes', but I guess he thought he'd put me in my place ormake me squirm or something). Anyhoo, when I answeredthatI was referring to the cecal matter from her CecalDysbiosis problem, he got down to business. (For those notfollowing this earlier, Cecal Dysbiosys is basically 'poopy butt'caused by high carbs/protein and lack of fibre throwing off the gutflora). 

He thinks it is a problem treating a bunny with CD withanything other than hay and water. He has no idea about thepumpkin, either,he thought it was a very interestingquestion. It's something that really needs to beresearched. I'm going to see if Dana Krempelshas anopinion, but seeing as she didn't answer the Etherbun query butanswered other questions posted around the same time, I suspect she hasno opinion. We agreed that given the carbs, for now, I won'tgive her any. The high-fibre pellet slurry ispreferable.Pedialyte is fine, I guess the hydrationoffsets any adverse affects. (Angela and Carolyn were right).:thumbup

The hay slurry idea didn't work, even though the vet said he did it allthe time when he suggested it. He left and had his staff workon the mix, and they couldn't get it blended, so they used CriticalCare. 

She's been prescribed Metronidazole and Cisapride (the latter maybeonly because I asked about it). And she'll get syringe fed aslurry -- justfive or socc's every fewhours. (I think the total is 36 cc's every 12 hours --72every 24 hours). 

They did give her a SubQ with vitamins. And I finally got atube of Nutri-Cal, I was going to use it to spruce up the slurry,although I forgot about the carbs, so now I'm not so sure aboutthat. I'll have to ask tomorrow. They were going togive me a new probiotic (I think), but they didn't put it in thebag. I've gotAcidophilus here, so I'll use that.

Meanwhile, I was getting odd looks on my way there and back, and I justlooked in the mirror and realized I have huge red splotches all over myface, not sure that that's all about. I'm still notfeeling so hot. Hopefully it's just from being overtired,it's not the measles or something. (No wonder Ihada seat to myself on a crowded bus!). 

Damage to date: $315 plus $32 for the two cabrides. (I took the bus, but of course, can't have that forthe little princess). 

I'll check back in after we try a feeding -- if I remain upright that long. 



sas :zzzzzand pipp :imsick:


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## aurora369 (Mar 16, 2007)

Oh no SAS!! If there's anything I cando, please let me know. I may be able to pick some stuff upif you need tomorrow after school.

I'll be praying for little Pip poopies tonight!

--Dawn


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## naturestee (Mar 16, 2007)

:hug2:

Have you ever tried hay pellets? Bunny Bytes sells a brand of100% hay pellets meant for supplemental feeding for rabbits thatcan't/won't eat hay. It might be expensive if you can't findsomething in Canada though.

Come on, Pipp poopies!


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## JimD (Mar 16, 2007)

ray:


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## pamnock (Mar 16, 2007)

It's very possible Pipp's illness was viralrelated (SAS was sick, weather has changed and we're going to see morecases of stasis during this time of year - sometimes due to rotavirus).

I've found Nutri Cal to be excellent to have on hand. 



Pam


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## Pipp (Mar 16, 2007)

Well, we have six... count 'em, six...:bunnybutt:*...... *poops. (Most ofthem stuck to her bum, but I'll take it). 

Just tried feeding her the hay slurry again, don't think she got toomuch. I, however, ended up with a ton of the ton of it --head to toe. (I have to remember that the trick is to let herclean it off her CHEST, not her foot. Thosefrontfoot flicks are a lethal weapon!)

I'm exhausted. Really needsleep. 

Rosie, LOVE that photo of Flower, thank you! 

MBH, Pipp doesn't eat hay, and that leaves her open to a gutfloraimbalance if she eats too many pellets, oats or anynumber of things. She mostly has to eat veggies to try andmake up for the lack of fiber. I've been sick so she gotfewer veggies and more pellets, and probably a few double doses of oatsin my stupor, and without the hay to provide fiber, it sends her into aspin -- a serious case of 'poopy butt' -- cecal dysbiosis -- which inturn leads to stasis. That's why vets stronglyrecommend against giving bunnies food or treats with a lot ofcarbohydrates/sugars and why they push hay as a main dietarysource. 

Unfortunately, Pipp refuses to listen to them.:disgust: It's doubly unfortunate that the cure for cecaldysbiosis is at least a temporary diet of just hay and water, and whenyou have a bunny who won't eat hay, curing the problem isaproblem.

Angela, I really should at least try the hay pellets, but I dont' thinkshe'll go for it. She only eats the Oxbow when there'sabsolutely nothing else to eat (except hay), so I'm not holding mybreath. Hay cubes didn't work. 

And btw, I actually tried eating some of thepellets.I was looking at the ingredients andnoticed that the Oxbow had cane molassas, sure enough, there's a touchof sweetness to them. Yet the ones she really likes are theMartins Less Active, which have no sweetness, they taste like...well... hay! Go figure!

Silly bunny. :craziness (Heck, sillysas!!):craziness:craziness:craziness:craziness:craziness:craziness:craziness:craziness:craziness

More updates tomorrow, thanks all. 



sas


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## Pipp (Mar 16, 2007)

*pamnock wrote:*


> It's very possible Pipp's illness was viral related (SAS wassick, weather has changed and we're going to see more cases of stasisduring this time of year - sometimes due to rotavirus).
> 
> I've found Nutri Cal to be excellent to have on hand.


Hey Pam, I was wondering about that. I'm not totally sure itwas the lack of greens, but it certainly did start with bad poopybutt. 

I got Nutri-Cal from the vet, but if it was Cecal Dysbiosis caused bythe diet, I wasn't sure if I should be adding more carbs to themix. I was afraid both pumpkin and Nutri-Cal might make itworse. 

The last time she had something like this it was after she broke intothe oat drawer. This time she missed a day's salad andprobably got a little shortchanged for a few days. I can'tbelieve she's THAT sensitive. 

Can they test for viruses? Iforget. Herfecal float was negative, I wasn't sure it would be considering how badher excretions smelled. They didn't draw blood. 



sas


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## pamnock (Mar 16, 2007)

Viral testing can often be expensive and therearen't tests for all viruses - the fact that viruses mutate so quicklyalso makes it difficult for lab tests to keep up. Just aswhen we have the a virus, the doctor is more concerned about supportivetreatment rather than identifying the viral strain (unless there is apotentially fatal virus going around). Also, most vets don'thave the ability for extensive viral testing at their facility.

This website helps to give an idea of the testing available andcosts. Not all tests are available to private owners, howevermany universitys or the state vet may have testing labs.

Rotavirus is one of the more common GIpathogens that cancause "poops". Coccidia overgrowth is not uncommon when arabbit is suffering from rotavirus. E coli can also takeadvantage of the rabbit's suppressed immune system.

More info on rotavirus

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=266491

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&amp;pubmedid=2833612

Not that the simian strains that infect humans can also be contracted by rabbits.

I've used Nutri Cal extensively on rabbits with GI issues and found ittoo be very effective. Overuse can cause carb overload - alittle goes a long way!



I'm not saying that Pipp has rotavirus - just suggesting it as a possibility.



Pam


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## Bassetluv (Mar 16, 2007)

> Well, we have six... count 'em,six... :bunnybutt:*......*poops. (Most of them stuck to her bum, but I'll takeit).


:bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydance::bunnydanceonedancing bunny for each Pipp ball!) 

May Pipp continue to process bigger and better poops, Sas...! 

And I hope you can get some much-needed rest soon too. :hug1


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## Carolyn (Mar 16, 2007)

*Pipp wrote:*


> We're home. She won't come out of her carrier, soI'm not sure how she's doing -- other than she's not very happy withme. She was washing herself and licking the towel,so she's not toolethargic, which is good. No poopsthough.
> 
> They said she actually ate some Critical Care while she was there --which is stunning. She's always absolutely hated thestuff.
> 
> ...




My first thought is "discomfort" with the idea that a hay-only diet isthe *only* way to treat this problem. It may be the *best*course of action, but it is nearly impossible to force-feed hay, soif you can't coax the bunny to eat it (even "hand-feeding" a strand ata time -- this is worth a try!), then there needs to be a "Plan B." 

What diagnostics were done? Hopefully a thorough exam (ears, teeth,body temp) and GI xrays? If there was no GI blockage, most vets will goahead and prescribe Reglan. Yes, in a way, it seems counter-intuitiveto give motility drugs if the symptom is "diarrhea", but the importantthings is to get the gut moving "normally." 

As I'm typing this myinstinct is going back to possible teethproblems. Pipp's a dwarf, right? They are the #1 breed tohave molar problems (lops are a close second). Remember, stasis isoften a *symptom* rather than the root problem. Insomefriend'srabbits over the years, I would say 75% of the stasisproblems have had a root cause of tooth problems. 

Was pain medication given? Again, in many rabbitsthis isoften part of the problem ... relieving pain makes them want to eatagain, leading back to the road to recovery.

I'm with Pamnock about the NutriCal. I followed her greatadvice with that stuff many times and *knock on wood* have had greatsuccess with it. 

Praying harder for you both to get better!

-Carolyn


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## Haley (Mar 16, 2007)

Ive also been wondering, are her pellets timothy based?

Max has been off hay for about 8 months now and we've had no problems. Just wondering..


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## JimD (Mar 16, 2007)

*Pipp wrote:*


> Well, we have six... count 'em, six...:bunnybutt:*...... *poops. (Most ofthem stuck to her bum, but I'll take it).


:happydance


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## naturestee (Mar 16, 2007)

Yay! Poop!!!!!!!

I signed on just to check on Pipp, and I'm so glad she pooped a little!

SAS, I wonder if you should start forcing her to eat the Oxbow a littlemore? She might not like it but it has a lot more fiber thanMartins. Maybe you could try American Pet Diner timothypellets, in case she likes those more. They have similarnutrition to Oxbow but might taste different.

I looked up the info on the 100% hay pellets, and there are severalvarieties including timothy, orchard grass, alfalfa, andmixes. The alfalfa/grass hay mixes still have low protein sothey might not be bad for a supplement if she'll eat them. Ieven found a supplier in BC through their website, maybe they can shipto you? It would probably be cheaper than shipping from theUS.
Del's Farm Supply, Inc. Abbotsford, BC604-556-7477Here's the website of the company that makes the pellets.
http://www.sterettbroshayandfeed.com/index.shtml

Carolyn, Pipp has a history of molar spurs and had to have her molarsfiled several times last year. But to my knowledge her teethproblems never start with cecal issues so this sounds different.


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## Carolyn (Mar 16, 2007)

*naturestee wrote:*


> Carolyn, Pipp has a history of molar spurs and had to haveher molars filed several times last year. But to my knowledgeher teeth problems never start with cecal issues so this soundsdifferent.


Didn't know Pipp had a history of molar spurs. Understandcompletely where you're coming from with the cecal issues, at thispoint I'm more about just trying totroubleshoothowto get the littlebabeto start eatingagain. :?

You make a good point and have given some great advice in thisthread. I recall when Tucker started his severe case of GIStasis a couple of years ago, it started with excess cecals aswell. 

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Mar 16, 2007)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> Was pain medication given? Again, in many rabbitsthis isoften part of the problem ... relieving pain makes them want to eatagain, leading back to the road to recovery.
> 
> 
> -Carolyn




Glad to see you hear today Carolyn - hope all is well with you.

I agree that pain management should be a priority in supportive treatment.

Pam


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## Carolyn (Mar 16, 2007)

*pamnock wrote:*


> *Carolyn wrote:*
> 
> 
> > Was pain medication given? Again, in many rabbitsthis isoften part of the problem ... relieving pain makes them want to eatagain, leading back to the road to recovery.
> ...




Thanks for saying hi, Pam. It's always nice to hear from you,Dear Heart. I know you remember when Tucks had his bout withGI Stasis and how he had all those cecals. Asamatter of fact, it was you that remembered it in hindsight after westarted trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together. 

I'm out now, though. It's snowing here and I'm going to gethome before it gets bad out. I know that SAS and Pipp are ingood hands here. 

Good luck and I will be thinking of you and everyone helping you out,Sorelle and Pipp. I hope and pray that by the end of the day,you'll have enough Pipp Poop to fertilize all yourhouseplants. 

-Carolyn


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## aurora369 (Mar 16, 2007)

SAS, do you want me to go pick up some haypellets at the store in Abby?? I think Ryan may be going outthat way tonight, so I might be able to get to the store.

I wouldn't mind seeing how my guys like it, it may be a good supplementto their regular pellets, especially since Wildfire has a weightproblem.

I'll give you a call when I figure out what's going on tonight.

Nice find Naturestee! Abbotsford is about an hour or so outof Vancouver, and the store happens to be very close to where myboyfriend goes to school.

--Dawn


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## HoneyPot (Mar 16, 2007)

I used to mix hay pellets in Cookie's regulatpellets when he refused to eat hay. At first he picked aroundthem, but he started eating a few. Might not hurt as shelikes her pellets that taste like hay anyway...

_________
Nadia


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## Pipp (Mar 16, 2007)

I can't seem to sleep more than three hours anight (which is probably what's making me sicker), so pardon me if thispost doesn'tmake much sense. 

Angela, great find re: the pellets, and Dawn, yes, I'd love to givethem a try. (Well, feed them to Pipp. After eatinga couple, I've decided bunny pellets arenot my cup of tea).

Nadia, yes, that's exactly how I got Pipp eating the Oxbow in the firstplace, mixing a few in -- I put three three kinds of pellets in herbowl and slowly increased the good ones, she started picking at themwhen the others were gone. Now she'll eat themall-- eventually.

Carolyn, Pipp did have tummy xrays, fecal float, I think they took hertemp (although I'd been keeping her warm, so moot point), but nobloodwork or head xrays. She was prescribed Reglan(Metoclopramide) AND Cisapride (and now I'm wondering why hegave her both). 

Pipp normally stops eatingveggies when herspursreappear, although she keeps eating pellets for awhile,then stops everything cold. The last time she had the cecalmatter issues was an overdose of oats. 

However, both stasis AND cecal dysbiosis are symptoms, notcauses,so you're right there. I neverthought of that before -- the spurs previously caused a change in dietas noted above, but the symptoms were anorexia leading to stasis, notcecal dysbiosis, so now I'm even less sure it was strictly the dietissue this time. I'm leaning more towards the possibilty of avirus. The fact that she doesn't eat hay makes hermore susceptible to diet changes and bugs affecting her GI tract, I'msure. 

(She did have a period of hyperactivity in the early stages of the CD,I know I read somewhere that that was a symptom of something, but Idon't remember what. She also increased her water intake). 

But as you said, the bottom line is really treating the symptoms at themoment. Whatever caused it,we have to get hereating again. 

Thanks for all the help and support, guys, you're all awesome! :hug:

I'm letting Pipp get some sleep. (One of us has to). I'll update later. 



sas


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## maherwoman (Mar 16, 2007)

*YAY POOPS!!!!!

arty0002::litterhealthy:arty0002:

**Oh, sing a song rejoicing of poops!!!! **:singing:*
*Keep fighting, little Pipp!!!**:boxing


*And *SAS*, you're very welcome for the picture. Itvery much shows what we're doing over here for you both. 
*:heartbeat:*


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## aurora369 (Mar 16, 2007)

I called around a bit, and most stores onlycarry the alfafa hay pellets. The fiber is not as high as thetimothy ones.

I e-mailed the Sterett Bros. Hay and Feed company, hoping they'll getback to me about a place I can get some of the timothy or orchardpellets.

The feed store I normally go to has the alfafa pellets, but I don't think they would be that great. 

If a place that sells the hay pellets with in a couple hours drivingdistance, I would love to pick some up. So I'm hoping that Ican find some place. But it may have to wait till I'm doneschool, I don't have that much time to be calling around to find some.

--Dawn


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## jordiwes (Mar 16, 2007)

Let me know if there's anywhere I can call...

What should I ask for?


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## aurora369 (Mar 16, 2007)

The link that Angela posted was to a supplier ofpelleted hay, the timothy and orchard ones look awesome, full of fiber(close to 30%) and low on protein (about 10%). 

If you want to call around and ask if anyone carries some pelleted hay,and find out what the nutritional values of the pellets are.If there is anyplace between Vancouver and Chilliwack, I can go andpick up some pellets tonight as I'm heading out that way anyways.

Most places seem to only carry the alfafa pellets. But if thenutritional values are okay, it may be worth a try. I thinkthe timothy or orchard pellets would be really nice though.

--Dawn


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## Pet_Bunny (Mar 16, 2007)

Why don't yougive Pipp some AlfalfaHayas fiber in thissituation? This could be something tohelp her along andto perk upher appetite. Anything is better thannothing.

Rainbows!


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## naturestee (Mar 17, 2007)

How is she? Loki's been asking about Pipp, and even prayed over Pipp's lookalike.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Mar 17, 2007)

Nice Angela!!! That's great!


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## naturestee (Mar 17, 2007)

Yeah, Pipp is Mocha's Canadian Twin Sister.


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## Pipp (Mar 17, 2007)

*naturestee wrote: *


>



Great! Send Loki over here, he can hold her down while I try and syringe feed the little twerp!

I guess I should have left her at the vet's, I'm not doing very wellwith her. The six poops (and a few more after that) were wellformed and not a bad size, but it's been downhill from there -- just avery few misshapen, pathetic little things since. Notsurprising, seeing as I have NOT been able to get her fed.The vet's office said she actually ate Critical Care there willingly,which I thought was odd, she's always loathed the stuff, but I can'tget her to eat her regular pellet slurry -- even though she's eatenthree or four pellets from her bowl. She definitely seems todo better after Simethicone, but still no go on the slurry.Not even the pumpkin slurry. 

She'sdrinking like a fish, though. 

I will try alfalfa hay, thanks for the suggestion PB. I'vealready in the past tried three kinds of timothy, meadow grasses, oathay (to the tune of $60!), local orchard hay and afewothers.She once atefourorfive strands of the local grass hay Kathy brought over, butthat's been it.



sas :grumpy


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## naturestee (Mar 17, 2007)

One lovey Dutch, on his way!

... Mocha just stopped me at the door. You'll have to do without.

Mocha is a beast to syringe feed, so I feel your pain. If youget it in her mouth, does she spit it out? What kind ofsyringe are you using? I have the ones meant for baby meds,and they have nice rubber gaskets that move smoothly. The petstore one I have is all plastic and doesn't slide as nicely.I tend to get either nothing or a huge projectile mess.

Can you wrap her in a towel?

Are you doing tummy rubs too? Or making her exercise?

Oh, and I forgot to tell you earlier, but having both gut stimulants isa good thing. One works on the upper GI tract, the other onedoes the lower. So they work in concert.

Naughty Pipp! Eat your food!:nono


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## Pipp (Mar 17, 2007)

*naturestee wrote:*


> Mocha is a beast to syringe feed, so I feel yourpain. If you get it in her mouth, does she spit itout? What kind of syringe are you using? I have theones meant for baby meds, and they have nice rubber gaskets that movesmoothly. The pet store one I have is all plastic and doesn'tslide as nicely. I tend to get either nothing or a hugeprojectile mess.
> 
> Can you wrap her in a towel?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the exercise reminder, although that also reminded me thatthe last thing I need for her is a lower gut stimulant -- all I need todo is put her in an area where another bunny has been, and no matterwhat shape she's in, she'll poop! 

I decided to take her into the bathroom with me for a bit of exercise-- Dill marks it daily :disgust:-- and sure enough, withinseconds she was squeezing out the poops right next to his.She probably dropped 20 little tiny misshapen things inthere. And even though she had just peed on me (a first everfor her), she still managed another sizable puddle as well (which wasclear, btw). 

I am concerned about her water intake -- this is normally anon-drinking bunny. She's turned into a little suction pump. 

She's eagerly taking water from the syringe, and no problem withSimethicone and the other meds, she just totally recoils at theslurry. I've got a big feeding syringe from thevet. I remember it working better before, I'm getting the allor nothing bit now. I know there's something you can put inthere to make it smoother, I just forget what. I'vebeen using the towel, she does everything she can to tuck her face intothe towel, hiding her mouth. And once the slurry gets intoher mouth, seh REALLY reacts badly.Its the sameslurrymix (almost) that she ate 32 cc's of without much of afuss the night before she went to the vet. Now I'm lucky toget 2 cc's in her. I'm not sure about giving her the gutmotility drugs if she has no food in her gut. 

The vet never did give me Medicam, I'm not sure if she's inpain. She does have tooth noises and she is moving her moutha lot. (Maybe the lack of food has stopped keeping her molarspurs at bay?). I tried a quarter tab of childrensMotrin, but because she's drinking so much (which is good if she'sgetting NSAIDs), I'm reluctant just in case there's a kidney thinggoing on. I gave it to her at the same time as theSimethicone, this time I only gave her Simethicone, we'll see if thathas the same effect. She did perk up a bit. (Andyup, constant tummy rubs).

She's passed the oat test every time, btw. But of coursecan't give her more than one or two with the now-seemingly-past poopyproblem. 

I'm at a loss. 

sas


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## Haley (Mar 17, 2007)

Come on Pipp, you've got us all worried sick!

I cant believe she wont eat a pellet slurry/pumpkin mix- Max will eatit off the spoon and cant get enough. These little dwarfs are so fussythough- Lucy wont let me put a syringe in her mouth for anything. 

Im praying for you guys. I really hope youre able to get some food in her asap. ray:


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## naturestee (Mar 17, 2007)

Well, at least you can make her poop! Territoriality does have a plus side.

You could try lubing the syringe with a little vegetable oil.Maybe Pipp will be more likely to eat the food if you only put a littlebit in her mouth at a time. And have you tried putting a bitof honey on the syringe tip?


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## Bassetluv (Mar 17, 2007)

Sas, I don't know if this will help, but someonein the disabled rabbit forum had suggested this to another member whentheir bunny was refusing to eat hay and roughage:

"....Iground up oat hay and mountain hay in a coffeegrinder -- not too fine. then I added a sprinkling ofCritical Care, and just enough water and a tiny bit of apple juice fortaste and texture. He was gobbling this stuff up..."

Big hugs and ray: for Pip....

:hearts:hearts:hearts


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## AngelnSnuffy (Mar 17, 2007)

Maybe applesauce slurry instead of pumpkin? Has she ever had pumpkin before? How's she doing?ray:


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## Pipp (Mar 18, 2007)

No more poops. :sigh I'm really not getting much food into her. 

I do have a hay slurry, of course she hates it. She hates herregular slurry right now, too. She normally eats pumpkin, butnot now. 

What she has now is different from what she had before. Nowshe's acting like she has molar spurs. :sigh:sigh

I was worried about that because it's been a fine line keeping herspurs in check in the past. When she starts moving her moutharound, I usually start feeding her coarse/hard veggies and it seems tokeep them in check. Now that she hasn't had any veggies inweek, and she was shortchanged a bit before this, shewasn'tgrinding down the spurs. (They were lookinglike they'd need surgeryevery two months or so, but she'sbeen spur-free since last July). 

So on top of the $350 vet bill for the poopy butt, we're looking atdental. I'm debating whether to have her xrayed orjust tell them to knock her out and go for the molars, and if there'snothing there, take blood and maybe an ultrasound on her kidneys(although that's REALLY pricey). 

She's being her little diva self -- she won't take the slurry, but boyshe'll go for some oats. She nibbled at a bit of kale andsome apple, althoughshe didn't eat much of either.

Never rains, it pours. And for the record, it really has beenpouring here. Grey, dreary, wet wet weather for weeks andweeks. (So much for spring!) But of course I wentout in the downpour today to get my baby some Pedialyte andkale. Anything for the Pippster. 



sas


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## AngelnSnuffy (Mar 18, 2007)

Pipp, Sas, I want to come and change thesecircumstances for you! It's not right. Sending goodvibes!ray::hug2:


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## JimD (Mar 18, 2007)

I'm at a loss for anything to add......aside from prayers and good thoughts.

ray:

~Jim


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## Haley (Mar 18, 2007)

Poor little Pipp. I was thinking, did you saythe vet gave you metacam? Have you tried giving her that and thenfeeding her a little after...to see if maybe taking away the pain willhelp her eat (if it is her molars)?

Im praying for you guys. I wish there was more I could do to help.


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## maherwoman (Mar 18, 2007)

You've got lots more prayers coming from our direction, too...

ray::hug2:urplepansy:


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## MyBoyHarper (Mar 18, 2007)

How's she doing this evening? ray:


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## naturestee (Mar 18, 2007)

Any updates? Poor little princess.


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## Pipp (Mar 18, 2007)

Still no poops up until this afternoon, then Ilet her out in the living room and she of course produced her 'marks'next to Dill's. A mix of cecals and misshapen tiny littlepoops, but poops none-the-less. There were a few too manycecals for my liking, but not too bad. She really needed toproduce and eat some, her system was compromised, and that happened, soall is good. 

I didn't give her pain meds with the last round of feeding (still only10 cc's total slurrytoday so far, 60 cc's to go), and it madea difference. I gave her some just now, hopefully it willmake her eat another bit of dill and carrot top -- which she did thismorning. (Or was it last night?) It's definitely amolar issue. She's eating tiny bits of kale, but only thesoft parts, ditto with only the leafy parts of the dill and carrot top,and even then only after pain meds. (Never did get Metacam,so still usinga quarter tab of baby Motrin). 

I'll take herin for the spurs tomorrow or Tuesday, not sureif the vet is going to want her in better shape before the surgery ornot.

So there's the latest. Thanks again to all for the goodwishes.



sas


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## JadeIcing (Mar 18, 2007)

Sweet little one need to get better.


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## Haley (Mar 18, 2007)

Oh sas, Im so sorry shes still going through all this. Ive been thinking of her all day.

I really hope it is just her molars. I'll be praying for your littlegirl. Youre right, when it rains it pours. I know how stressful it is. 

Sending lots of prayers your way. ray:

PS. maybe you should get some metacam, isnt it easier on their tummy than motrin?


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## Pipp (Mar 19, 2007)

Poorbaby tries to hide her widdle mouth in the towel so that big meanie with the fat syringe can't find it... 















But things were looking up last night.  Shenibbled on kale edges, carrot top and dill. (The soft stuff).

She really needs the pain meds, which is a typical molar spur thingwith her. (I had asked for Metacam, but the spurs weren't theissue then, and she wasnt' gassy, so the vet didn't include any in hermeds bag,but the Motrin seemed to work -- although she'sstopped eating again since, but I'm sure we'll get her doing a littlemunching again. Probably can't get the spurs done untilTuesday or Wednesday. 

Hopefully she'll keep it up until then.

I always have a little less sympathy with the spurs because she'llstill eat oats, so it'sselective pain.:disgust:



sas


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## JadeIcing (Mar 19, 2007)

*Pipp wrote: *


> I always have a little less sympathy with the spurs because she'llstill eat oats, so it'sselective pain.:disgust:
> 
> 
> 
> sas




Nah Pipp just knows whats the best stuff.


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## Pipp (Mar 19, 2007)

If Pipp won't eat banana, apple or carrot, I call the vet. 

If she won't eat oats, I call the undertaker. 

Unfortunately given her recent poopy butt problem, no oats for her! :nono



sas :witch: (aka the big meanie)


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## Haley (Mar 19, 2007)

Glad to hear at least she's nibbling on things. Shes such a little princess. 

I really hope its just her molars, it just stinks you already spent somuch money on everything else if its just that. Did the vet not look ather molars when she was in?

Praying for her to get well soon!


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## JadeIcing (Mar 19, 2007)

Feel Better!


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## Pipp (Mar 19, 2007)

Haley, it's the domino effect... ItWAS poopy butt, or cecal dysbiosis, mostly likely caused by her dietfluxuations when I was too sick to feed and monitor herproperly.  

But I also had previously adjusted her diet to keep her molar spurs incheck, so that was a further progression. She didn't startshowing any spur symptoms until the day she went into thevet. Her appetite had been good, it was her output that wasthe problem, up until she stopped eating altogether well intoit. 

I asked about the dental xrays, but the vet said he'd have to call inthe specialist, so I passed. I really wasn't sure at thatpoint.It's become very apparent since, though --which I guess is good news in that now I feelcomfortablejustbooking her for surgery without theadded cost of thexrays.

Considering I was expecting to have her spurs done every two months(which was how often they were starting to pop up) and I managed tokeep them in checkwithout the surgeryfor almost ayear, I guess I can't complain. I just hope I cankeep them downfor another year after this. 

sas


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## pamnock (Mar 19, 2007)

Glad to hear that she's feeling a little better.

Pam


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## maherwoman (Mar 19, 2007)

Completely agreed...I've been thinking about and praying for your little baby...

I hope to hear soon that her poor little system is back and running and normal again...

Poor sweetheart...send her our love...
*
pamnock wrote: *


> Glad to hear that she's feeling a little better.
> 
> Pam


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## Spring (Mar 19, 2007)

Aww, at least she's eating a bit. Glad she's improving . 

She reminds me of Pepsi when Pepsi wasn't feeling well. Or Pepsi wouldjust sit there with her teeth clenched and would keep moving her chinup when I tired the syringe. She was such a fussy bunny when she wasn'tfeeling well.


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## MyBoyHarper (Mar 20, 2007)

Any updates? ray:


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## LuvaBun (Mar 20, 2007)

I am so sorry that I missed all this! Poor little Pipp, and poor SAS. How is our little girl doing today?

Jan


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## Pipp (Mar 20, 2007)

Well, we're back to syringe feeding every fewhours, although she did nibble at the veggies again thismorning. I was sick again yesterday (this thing just won't goaway!), so I didn't do the syringe thing more than once,andshe it appears she didn't eat anything on her own, soit was astep backwards. Her poops had been increasing, but now we'reback to just a few tiny bits. 

The vet wants her to be in better shape for the surgery -- although shewon't eat on her own without the surgery, so it's a bit of a conundrum.

But she's not hiding under the bed at every opportunity anymore, so that's something. 

If I can just keep on it properly, she'll be okay -- just not very happy with me. 

Thanks for asking! (And Jan, sorry I've been tied up withthis, I haven't even had a chance to ask you about your trip!!)



sas :hearts


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## Offspring2099 (Mar 20, 2007)

Have your triedthe method I might have mentioned in another tread forfeeding? After doing syringe feeding for a few days our Pennywould just stop chewing (being a little brat), so we decided to trysomething different. We would make the critical care with alittle less water, so that its thinker. Then we would scoop anice chunk with a plastic spoon, and scrape off the food on the topincisors (inside the mouth). We were able to get A LOT morefood in that way, maybe thats whats she needs to get some energy forthe surgery. 


Good luck, hopefully You and Pipp will feel better soon.


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## Haley (Mar 20, 2007)

Another thing, have you tried adding acidophilus or echinacea to whatever youre feeding her? 

Peg and I were just discussing the use of these immune boosters. Shesusing it with great success (I think for head tilt buns) and Im givingit to Max, mixed in with his food. I really think its helping. 

Its funny becauseI had never heard of its use with bunniesuntil you send me that recipe a while back that someone had posted(remember, it also had slippery elm and grape seed?). Now, Im seeing itmore. Angela posted some articles with info on it and I also saw thatthe HRS is now recommending bunnies take acedophilus before and afterspays/nueters.

Just something to think about. I hope Pipp is well soon. I worry about her a lot.


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## Pet_Bunny (Mar 20, 2007)

*Haley wrote: *


> HRS is now recommending bunnies take acedophilus before and after spays/nueters.


I gave Pebbles plain low fat yogurt whenI had her on antibiotics. Iused three syringes, one/antibiotics,two/yogurt, and three/apple juice which Iswitched around, so Pebblesdidn't know which oneIwas giving her. 






Rainbows!  I did ask about Pipps teeth at the beginning of the thread.


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## polly (Mar 20, 2007)

Hi , i agree with Hayley you both need a gooddose of echinacea! I am sorry this is going on so long for you, and uare right Pip does look like Dido so my fingers are doubly crossed foryou. have you tried or do you get burgess supergrass over there cause ifind that sometimes my bunnies will eat that if not hay. What isstrange is Dido had teeth problems too but it was his front teeth andhe was lucky he didn't have to be put to sleep to have them treatedwhen he was ready to get them done i had to cut his carrot up rellysmall though.

Will keep fingers ,toes and all bunny paws crossed that you r both ok soonink iris:


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## naturestee (Mar 20, 2007)

ray: For SAS and Pipp. I hope you both feel better soon!


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## HoneyPot (Mar 22, 2007)

How're things? How are you feeling? How is little Pipp.

___________
Nadia


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## Pipp (Mar 22, 2007)

Sorry for not updating sooner, both of us have been up and down like yo-yos! 

Today has been a good day, though. Yesterday Pipphadstopped nibbling on her veggies again, so I prepared aslurry for her (which takes close to an hour), but by the time Ibrought it into the room, she was back munching. I think shewas just putting me through the hoops. (Or she heard theslurping noise as I sucked the slurry into the dreaded syringe, and shefigured she'd better eat or else).  

This morning she ate a good breakfast (she's been living on bits ofkale and dill, the only veggies she'd eat), and even ate some of herregular pellets and a little grated broccoli and carrot.:eats:

Andwe have a bunch of good looking poops.:litterhealthy: :happydance

I've been debating whether to make a dental appointment for hertomorrow, or wait until Monday. The spur isbothering her, but as long as she's eating and pooping, I think she'llbe fine until Monday, and it may just end up going away on its ownagain. leaseplease:

The poopy butt is in check, but it's not gone entirely, so she's still not getting oats or other treats.

Offspring, I was going to try the thicker slurry with the spoon, butshe started eating again,butif she stops again,that's the next thing I'll try, thanks! 

Haley, the slurry has acidophilus, I guess I should try and figure outhow to slip it in her veggies, too, seeing as that's now her mainintake. (And I've been drinking echinacea tea). 

PB, great suggestion re: mixing up the syringes (although at thispoint, she's not liking ANYTHING from a syringe other than water, whichis unusual for her. And btw, she's been chewing the tipsoff!) 

Thanks again, all! 



sas


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## TinysMom (Mar 22, 2007)

Have you thought about making her some weak minttea or some sort of flavored herbal tea? Would that help her want todrink more?

Peg


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## LuvaBun (Mar 23, 2007)

YAY!! Good for Pipp (and SAS). Great to hear that she is eating on her own again, and that you are feeling better too. 

Jan


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## MyBoyHarper (Mar 25, 2007)

How's Pipp? Did you decide if you were takingher for the dental appointment tomorrow, or is the spur going away onits own? Is she eating better (I know she was on mostly dill and kaleas of Thursday).

Hope all is well!


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## Haley (Mar 25, 2007)

Ive been thinking of you girls. I hope Pipp is getting better (and you are too) ray:


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## Pipp (Mar 26, 2007)

Well, sad to say we've both had a bit of arelapse. I spent all day yesterday with a headache, probablyan allergy to housecleaning and/or manual labour combined with lack ofsleep. I think both Pipp and George have my number, they bothkeep waking me up.George just phones as I'mdrifting off, but Pipp ... she either jumps on me, or gagsme. 

Yesterday,I wasasleep whentheunmistakable smell of poopy butt woke me up. Thesmelltruly was strong enough to wake me up, and she wasacross the room. So we're back to square one. Shehad been doing really well. I was going to book her fordental surgery on Monday for Tuesday. Now we'reback to syringe feeding and still trying to figure out what works andwhat doesn't.

sas :sigh


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## JadeIcing (Mar 26, 2007)

Oh no. :kiss:Feel better you two.


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## Carolyn (Mar 26, 2007)

ray:

Sorry to hear this news. Good vibes and prayers of healing continue for you both.


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## maherwoman (Mar 26, 2007)

Oh no! 

I hope to hear that things get better soon...hopefully the dental surgery will handle everything...

ray:


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## LuvaBun (Mar 27, 2007)

Oh No! Just when it seemed like things were improving :?. I'm sending prayers and good vibes to both of you :rose:

Jan


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## Pipp (Mar 27, 2007)

Thanks all. Pipp's in surgery rightnow. She dropped a huge glob of poopy goop on the vet'sexamtable just to demonstrate her problem. She wasvery helpful. :yuck

They still don't know what to give her, but I guess I'm springing forthe $25 bag of Critical Care -- even though I think veggies are better,fiber-wise. This is such a mystery. I'm not surewhat set off the dysbiosis again, but it could have been a little toomuch carrot, too many pellets (she had started eating them again), orpossibly the Metacam, considering the stuff is pretty sweet (although Ithink it started just before I gave her those meds, so I don't think itwas the trigger). I don't think the spurs were the issue, shegot the poopy butt first, and THEN stopped eating.

I can't get an answer from the vets, Etherbun or anywhereelse. This is an issue not only for bunnies that won't eathay, but any rabbits with dysbiosis who have stopped eating would be atrisk. After all, you can't force feed hay. Therehas to be something else that can be done to reset thebalance. The acidophilus doens't seem to be doing much. 

If anybody sees any detailed studies re: bacterial imbalances and cecal dysbiosis, please share. 



sas


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## Pet_Bunny (Mar 27, 2007)

*Pipp wrote: *


> Pipp's in surgery right now.


ray:


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## naturestee (Mar 27, 2007)

I see you online! How is she?


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## Pipp (Mar 27, 2007)

She was even nibbling on lettuce at the vet's. (She won't touch the stuffwhen she's here). 

No poops yet, but she did sniff at her kale. 

And I ended up passing on the Critical Care, but I had them give her some before she left. 

I'm very tired, butI'd better slap myself around and go getthe little princess some fresh veggies. :whatevah



sas :yawn:


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## HoneyPot (Mar 27, 2007)

Oh so glad to hear she came out of the surgeryok... and I'm still hoping by some random chance the poopy buttdissapears on it's own...


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## Haley (Mar 27, 2007)

Oh Im so glad she came out okay. Did the vet sayif the molars were bad? I hope that now she is able to eat her regulardiet and kick that poopy butt!

Praying for you both.


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## LuvaBun (Mar 28, 2007)

I'm so relieved she came through surgery OK.Man, you two are really going through it , aren't you? How is she doingthis morning?

JAN


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## Pipp (Mar 28, 2007)

The dental surgery is prettynon-intrusive, my vet uses the latest meds, it's more of a tranquilizer(Domitor/Medetomidine), itjust knocks her out for 30 minutes, then they give her reversal to wakeher up. It's safer than a spay or other operations.

She seems okay this morning, she'slooking brighter. I can't tell how much she ate, but sherifled through her salad bowl, the veggies are all over the place now,so she probably ate a sufficient amount. She's had some nottoo bad poops, and no huge clumps of cecal matter, so all is goodthere. 

I think I'm going to leave her alone and hope that she knows what'sgood for her (aside from hay). If I try and coax her to eatveggies and/or pellets, we're risking the dysbiosis again.(That said, she just went crazy when I opened the oat drawer, so maybewe'll have to rethink this).  

Thanks for caring, guys! 



sas:bunnynurse:and pipp :bunnysuit:


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## maherwoman (Mar 28, 2007)

Oh...GOOD NEWS!! YAY!!

Hugs to you both, and the hope of even better news later on.


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## Pipp (Mar 28, 2007)

*Haley wrote: *


> OhIm so glad she came out okay. Did the vet say if the molars were bad? Ihope that now she is able to eat her regular diet and kick that poopybutt!
> 
> Praying for you both.


Oh, forgot to answer this. She had three molars involved, andas usual, they weren't too bad, althougha little worse thanusual. It still wasn't bad enough to have an ulcer on thetongue or anything, just a minor discomfort. 

For the first time, she actually showed the usual symptoms just beforeher surgery -- drooling, etc -- which she doesn't normallydo.She's still a wimp!

I'm convinced her veggie diet is the ticket, and not the pellets, eventhough the vet suggested the opposite. I think the veggies(with the exception of maybe the carrots) will provide the fiber andthe texture keep the poopy butt and the molar spurs in check.So she'll get limited pellets, and no slurry, at least fornow. Still not sure what to do if she goes off her foodagain, though. The jury is still out on the pumpkin.

sas


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## JadeIcing (Mar 28, 2007)

Silly but maybe crush some hay and mix it into the oats?


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## polly (Mar 28, 2007)

Yay really glad she got through it ok and shes eating a bit


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## HoneyPot (Mar 31, 2007)

How are you and Pipp doing? Is sheback to normal poops yet? Is she eating better? Howabout you - getting ANY rest at all?

___________
Nadia


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