# Babies are here!



## Livvy (Jul 18, 2020)

my brownie just had her babies. 5, one doa and 4 cute little wiggle worms. She cleaned up everything except some blood (half dollar sized stain on the outside). 
Should I clean that part up? Or will she eventually do it? I was not prepared for babies as I had zero plans to breed but both escaped on me one night and have been researching best I can. 
She didn't pull fur but they are inside so they should be warm enough right?


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## majorv (Jul 18, 2020)

I would pull some from her belly for a light cover. Until they get hair they are very susceptible to drafts and chills.


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## Livvy (Jul 18, 2020)

I'll try pulling some if shell let me. She super protective right now cuz she just had them an hour or 2 ago.


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## zuppa (Jul 18, 2020)

Fur also softens their nest otherwise hay can damage their thin skin so if you decided to keep them it would be wise to line nest with fur or what you have at hand so they can stay safe. If you decided to kill them it doesn't really matter


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## Livvy (Jul 18, 2020)

zuppa said:


> Fur also softens their nest otherwise hay can damage their thin skin so if you decided to keep them it would be wise to line nest with fur or what you have at hand so they can stay safe. If you decided to kill them it doesn't really matter


There's no way I could kill them. Thats extreme, although I didn't plan to have them. 
Could I use sheep wool? I have some rovings from when I spun yarn. Is superwash so no sheep smell....


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## Livvy (Jul 18, 2020)

Livvy said:


> There's no way I could kill them. Thats extreme, although I didn't plan to have them.
> Could I use sheep wool? I have some rovings from when I spun yarn. Is superwash so no sheep smell....


Can I move them tonight to line it? I know there's mixed feelings on when you can touch them.


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## zuppa (Jul 18, 2020)

If you can get some fur from her belly or if don't want to disturb her maybe you can brush your other rabbit and get some off him. You don't even need to move them, you can just cover them with fur and they will spread it all around them. That's why rabbit's fur is best, I won't know about sheep wool, also if it was washed maybe it has detergent or something, I never used lint too, if you have two rabbits you can get some fur surely.


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## Happy Hollands (Jul 18, 2020)

Congratulations! You are now a bunny grandma! As long as mama bun is alright with it, you can touch the babies as soon as they are born. Make sure she didn't over clean them (nibbled tails, feet, etc.) and remove the DOA. It may take up to 72 hours for her milk to come in, but once it does keep a close eye on the newborns and make sure all of their bellies are full! It is definitely a great idea for you to pull some of her fur from her belly / chest area as this is a necessity to keep them warm. If you happen to have a heat lamp, I reccomend using it to keep them from chilling until their fur grows in. Best of luck!!


Here's two great links to help you get started!

Breeding Rabbits | The Nature Trail/

Breeding Holland Lops

Note: If necessary, distract her with her favorite treat while you pull fur and check on the babies.


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## Livvy (Jul 18, 2020)

zuppa said:


> If you can get some fur from her belly or if don't want to disturb her maybe you can brush your other rabbit and get some off him. You don't even need to move them, you can just cover them with fur and they will spread it all around them. That's why rabbit's fur is best, I won't know about sheep wool, also if it was washed maybe it has detergent or something, I never used lint too, if you have two rabbits you can get some fur surely.



She won't freak out having a male scent on them? Ill have to try that. And see what I can get. 
The wool wasn't washed its just the name cuz it can be thrown in the washer without shrinking.


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## zuppa (Jul 18, 2020)

If she is super protective it would be best if you remove her from the room when you rearrange the nest so she can't see. Some mothers are very protective and getting stressed when see someone touching nest or babies so be respectful. Just offer her some food somewhere else and while she's eating you can quickly check the babies and add some fur etc


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## Livvy (Jul 18, 2020)

zuppa said:


> If she is super protective it would be best if you remove her from the room when you rearrange the nest so she can't see. Some mothers are very protective and getting stressed when see someone touching nest or babies so be respectful. Just offer her some food somewhere else and while she's eating you can quickly check the babies and add some fur etc



Thank you so much for the advice. I was planning to let her roam later so I'll do it then. 
Even though I didn't plan for babies or want to breed ( not with this female and not until we have a bigger space) i still want to do whats best for them.


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## zuppa (Jul 18, 2020)

I wouldn't recommend heat lamp overheat is no good as well. If you just get some fur or lint or just cotton wool to spread on hay that would be enough. If it was winter and very cold and they were outdoor and just one baby you could use warm bottle but just on one side of the nest so they can choose their comfort temperature. There's no need for extra heating really. There are 4 kits and they will be moving and warming each other.


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## zuppa (Jul 18, 2020)

I use pin brush with protected pins and brush backwards from tale to head, that way you get most fur on it. If you don't have this kind of brush you can use just baby comb but again if you brush backwards you'll get more fur on it, and mostly from bum/hind legs. Get her on your lap and pet her so she relax, massage from head to tail and then take a brush or comb and start massaging with it, then change direction.

It will be from their undercoat, very soft, rabbit's fur is very light and warm.

If she lets you you could pluck some fur from her belly around her nipples so babies could access them easier. You don't even have to put any pressure, it will come off easily. She's just first time and she will maybe pull some later.


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## Livvy (Jul 18, 2020)

Thank you! I was able to get some fur for them between her and chilly (the male). 
Got them bundled real quick and mom had no issues when she went back in. 
She did scratch one a bit. She was scratching at the nest and laying on them a few times. Maybe to cover them and keep them warm? Not sure. She hasn't done it since I but fur in. 
I snapped a quick pic of the scratched one, the dark marks are the scratches. I tried to be quick so its not a great pic. Omg they are so cute and so big considering how small mom is.


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## zuppa (Jul 18, 2020)

Can't tell about scratches, a bit unusual. Keep an eye on them, if you see any sign of redness or inflammation maybe rinse it with strong tea or sage to disinfect, not sure if salt water can be used on 1 day old baby, maybe other members had experience with that. 

Probably she's just it's her first time and she's not entirely sure what to do. I would cover her cage over the nest with something like blanket so she can have some privacy and ideally would leave her alone, since rabbits don't like when someone is watching they will only nurse when no one in there. She should nurse them once or twice a day, usually night or early morning, for 3 minutes. So if you didn't see if she nursed but you check on them every morning and see if their bellies are nice and round, means she did. First time it can take up to 48 hours and they will survive that, because maybe she still has no milk or something. You can offer her some rolled oats and generally she should get unlimited food now, also what pellets you feed her? If it's regular adult pellets she might need to be transferred gradually to high protein 16% pellets (for juniors and lactating), and make sure she has fresh water she will drink more since she needs to produce milk. Be generous with food, greens, herbs also good, avoid mint while she's nursing, it's no good for milk, but fennel is good for milk production. 

If tomorrow babies are wrinkled not fed maybe you will need to teach her and hold her over the nest gently so babies can nurse. Also if she never pulled fur from her belly it might be difficult to get to the nipples, well you check in the morning if they are fed she figured it out, if not maybe you want to help her. But as I said, they will survive up to 48 hours before first feeding.


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## Livvy (Jul 18, 2020)

zuppa said:


> Can't tell about scratches, a bit unusual. Keep an eye on them, if you see any sign of redness or inflammation maybe rinse it with strong tea or sage to disinfect, not sure if salt water can be used on 1 day old baby, maybe other members had experience with that.
> 
> Probably she's just it's her first time and she's not entirely sure what to do. I would cover her cage over the nest with something like blanket so she can have some privacy and ideally would leave her alone, since rabbits don't like when someone is watching they will only nurse when no one in there. She should nurse them once or twice a day, usually night or early morning, for 3 minutes. So if you didn't see if she nursed but you check on them every morning and see if their bellies are nice and round, means she did. First time it can take up to 48 hours and they will survive that, because maybe she still has no milk or something. You can offer her some rolled oats and generally she should get unlimited food now, also what pellets you feed her? If it's regular adult pellets she might need to be transferred gradually to high protein 16% pellets (for juniors and lactating), and make sure she has fresh water she will drink more since she needs to produce milk. Be generous with food, greens, herbs also good, avoid mint while she's nursing, it's no good for milk, but fennel is good for milk production.
> 
> If tomorrow babies are wrinkled not fed maybe you will need to teach her and hold her over the nest gently so babies can nurse. Also if she never pulled fur from her belly it might be difficult to get to the nipples, well you check in the morning if they are fed she figured it out, if not maybe you want to help her. But as I said, they will survive up to 48 hours before first feeding.



After putting the fur on she hasn't scratched at the nest. Her nest wasn't the greatest honestly, she tried so hard and was trying to pull fur up till she had them but it just didn't work. So I reinforced it a bit and added the fur for her. Shes gone in but didn't disturb it. 
I did cover the cage where the nest is. I covered it pretty babies and will keep it covered. 
She is on normal adult pellets. Ill have to check the bag. Shes been on alfalfa should she stay on that while nursing? 
I'll check them in the morning. Fingers crossed she gets the feeding.
Thank you so much for all your help. You've been so helpful!


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## zuppa (Jul 18, 2020)

Alfalfa is fine while she's nursing, but also keep feeding regular hay, if you switch pellets junior pellets are usually alfalfa- based so that would be enough. Rolled oats are great for milk you can give her 1tbs she will love it. 
Hopefully she will start feeding soon, it is best not to disturb too much and let her do, usually rabbits know everything by instincts, even first time mothers but sometimes can get lost a bit at the beginning, but hopefully she'll get it sooner or later. Good luck!


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## zuppa (Jul 18, 2020)

Usually they don't lay on the babies, they avoid them only coming to the nest once or twice a day to nurse. That is because rabbits are prey animals and mother doesn't want to attract predators to the nest. So that's why they only nurse when no one is watching. But in your case, firstly maybe she is kinda easy going bun and you have good relationship she trusts you you're not predator maybe. Or it's because it's her first time and she's not sure what to do, she's still young you said 6 months or so? When she lay on babies it's only when nursing, it takes 2-3 minutes and babies will be moving from nipple to nipple when she's over them so maybe she just nursed when you saw she was laying on them.


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## Happy Hollands (Jul 19, 2020)

Livvy said:


> Thank you! I was able to get some fur for them between her and chilly (the male).
> Got them bundled real quick and mom had no issues when she went back in.
> She did scratch one a bit. She was scratching at the nest and laying on them a few times. Maybe to cover them and keep them warm? Not sure. She hasn't done it since I but fur in.
> I snapped a quick pic of the scratched one, the dark marks are the scratches. I tried to be quick so its not a great pic. Omg they are so cute and so big considering how small mom is.


Make sure her nails are short and trim to avoid future scratches. 
Keep a close eye on the baby's scratch, and make sure it doesn't get infected. Should heal by itself fine, though!

I know you had mentioned earlier / before the babies were born that you were worried about maloccusion, could you please attach pictures of the babies teeth? By gently pulling on either side of mouth, you can easily check them. It is most likely too young to tell yet, but it's worth a try


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## Livvy (Jul 19, 2020)

Happy Hollands said:


> Make sure her nails are short and trim to avoid future scratches.
> Keep a close eye on the baby's scratch, and make sure it doesn't get infected. Should heal by itself fine, though!
> 
> I know you had mentioned earlier / before the babies were born that you were worried about maloccusion, could you please attach pictures of the babies teeth? By gently pulling on either side of mouth, you can easily check them. It is most likely too young to tell yet, but it's worth a try



Yes I was able to look last night and didn't notice any issues with their teeth. 
I just checked them to make sure they are warm and fed. They are warm and their bellies look fed but they are still wrinkly. One seems a bit smaller and not as fed. 
When I check them later I'll snap some pictures. 
The way she built her nest its shoved to the way back, could that cause them to not feed properly as well? I have litter pans I used when they free roamed trying to potty train, would that be easier for her to feed them? 
Attached is what she uses now. 
I added some cotton to the bottom since they got scratched so the hay didn't make it worse.


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## zuppa (Jul 19, 2020)

Livvy said:


> The way she built her nest its shoved to the way back, could that cause them to not feed properly as well? I have litter pans I used when they free roamed trying to potty train, would that be easier for her to feed them?
> Attached is what she uses now.
> I added some cotton to the bottom since they got scratched so the hay didn't make it worse.


I see no problem with the nest tbh and generally it is best not to move it and leave it for a week or 10 days up to 14 days, then when kits are stronger you can take them place somewhere in a warm soft place and check if it's wet and too soiled you can change all hay to dry and put the top layer back, all would be best to do when she's not there as well. If you have some absorbing material like wood pellets underneath it will stay dry and clean for longer so you will have to change it later anyway but when they are a bit older. First two weeks are critical, so best if you know she nurses she will take care of them.

That cotton wool lining looks just fine to me too.

Watch the smallest one if you see he's still wrinkled tomorrow morning maybe you want to help him, sometimes some babies are slower weaker than others and they may lose their chance to get enough milk since it all happens so quickly. Hopefully she has enough milk, there's only 4 kits so should be enough milk to feed them, sometimes they can have 8 kits or even 14 but with 4 it shouldn't be a problem.

Here's a video how you can help the weakest baby to get some extra milk. Please wait a bit maybe it will be full tomorrow after feeding, so you won't need this. just for your information and also you can see how they keep moving from one nipple to another.

This would be most natural way to help the weakest baby, so he could get some extra milk off its mother, please only use if it really needed, otherwise let her take care of her kits, just provide with good food, safe place and give her some privacy


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## Livvy (Jul 19, 2020)

zuppa said:


> I see no problem with the nest tbh and generally it is best not to move it and leave it for a week or 10 days up to 14 days, then when kits are stronger you can take them place somewhere in a warm soft place and check if it's wet and too soiled you can change all hay to dry and put the top layer back, all would be best to do when she's not there as well. If you have some absorbing material like wood pellets underneath it will stay dry and clean for longer so you will have to change it later anyway but when they are a bit older. First two weeks are critical, so best if you know she nurses she will take care of them.
> 
> That cotton wool lining looks just fine to me too.
> 
> ...




Thank you. I'll check tomorrow. 2 seemed to be big and full. One was a touch smaller and the other quite a bit smaller. The smallest is the one with the scratches but this morning the scratches didn't look open, more like bruises than scratches. 
I've been giving her privacy and letting her do her thing (even though I really wanna cuddle the cute little babies lol). 
I let her out to run around and she snuggled me a bit and I can say her nipples are not even close to the video. Im assuming cuz shes a first time (and only time) mom. 
I'll check again in the morning to see if they fed well. She will not go on her back like that, can I flip it and have her stand in my lap and have them feed? If thats the case do they lay on their back? She absolutely will kick if I hold her like that.


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## zuppa (Jul 19, 2020)

Kits don't have to be all same size. You said they look very big comparing to her own size, so maybe two bigger are just bigger and other two will be more like mini sized. If their bellies are full in the morning you don't have to worry.
If you feel they need an extra meal you can also remove the biggest ones from the nest (and keep them warm and covered somewhere in a safe place) for one night so she will nurse and they will have better chance to get more milk. But I think they are only 4 and she should have enough milk for them all. Make sure she has plenty of food and offer her some oats and fennel as well, and more water she should drink to produce milk. If the fat ones will miss one meal nothing wrong, they will be fine. Put them back in the morning after she nursed.

Here's a pic of Bernie's kits she had 6, three big white and three were much smaller. She is not big herself and their father is same size as she, but those three white kits grew up and were just bigger than the other three. In fact, one tan in the right corner and harley one are now same size they are not mini but smaller than midi size, and one in the middle is a complete mini lop. You see how much smaller he is than the white one near him. The other whites were about same size they just not fully seen in photo. I suspect that Bernie had mini father and her mother was bigger white blue eyed, and that was why three her kits were bigger than she and than her other three kits. They are now fully grown pretty and healthy rabbits, they are now 15 months old, never had any problems with them.

In this pic they are 2 weeks old


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## zuppa (Jul 19, 2020)

Here's their photo just a couple days old, you can see as well that white ones are much bigger than especially that one with white stripe on his back, that's Bernardo




That white one was very fat  Remember I removed them once so the smaller ones had a better chance




And here's some rolled oats and herbs for Bernie, you can see a piece of fennel there as well. In her bowl I think there's some chamomile and fresh thyme, and rolled oats.


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## Livvy (Jul 19, 2020)

zuppa said:


> Here's their photo just a couple days old, you can see as well that white ones are much bigger than especially that one with white stripe on his back, that's Bernardo
> 
> View attachment 49451
> 
> ...


That makes me feel alot better. This was this morning when I checked them.The picture doesn't show the size difference very well but far left is the smallest. 
I've read they should look fat like they swallowed a grape. Which they don't but they are super active.
I'll have to grab some herbs tomorrow for her. I have parsley cuz my male loves parsley. 
Moms been really good though and doesnt mind me looking in. I give her a treat (greens or extra hay) when I do though so that probably helps lol


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## zuppa (Jul 19, 2020)

Good pic, they look all good and fed no need to worry! 
They are going to be very beautiful buns


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## zuppa (Jul 19, 2020)

Just don't offer her mint while she's nursing, as I said fennel would be great.


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## Livvy (Jul 19, 2020)

zuppa said:


> Good pic, they look all good and fed no need to worry!
> They are going to be very beautiful buns


Thank you! 
I'm super excited for the one that looks tricolored. 
I know I'm mostly a worry wart. But I have zero idea what I'm doing and zero notice. Lol 
you've been such a huge help. Everything i have found online is so conflicting and lacking info. As well as so discouraging, I was fully prepared for none to survive since shes a holland, small, and first time.


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## Livvy (Jul 19, 2020)

zuppa said:


> Just don't offer her mint while she's nursing, as I said fennel would be great.


So fennel and oats are the best.


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## zuppa (Jul 19, 2020)

Yes, oats just regular kitchen rolled oats give her a tablespoon a day, she will love them and will love you. 

Fennel like this one if you can get near you. 
If not that's not necessary, there's only four kits she'll be fine


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## Livvy (Jul 19, 2020)

zuppa said:


> Yes, oats just regular kitchen rolled oats give her a tablespoon a day, she will love them and will love you.
> 
> Fennel like this one if you can get near you.
> If not that's not necessary, there's only four kits she'll be fine
> ...


Yes we have those in store. I'll add some oats for her and grab some fennel tomorrow.


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## majorv (Jul 20, 2020)

If you give her rolled oats, get the old fashioned kind. Not really necessary to add a bunch of other things to her bowl. Once she’s nursing them (and it looks like she is) unlimited pellets that are 16% protein, hay, and a little rolled oats should be fine. As long as mom is feeding and taking care of them there’s really nothing you need to do but check them daily.


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## zuppa (Jul 20, 2020)

majorv said:


> If you give her rolled oats, get the old fashioned kind. Not really necessary to add a bunch of other things to her bowl. Once she’s nursing them (and it looks like she is) unlimited pellets that are 16% protein, hay, and a little rolled oats should be fine. As long as mom is feeding and taking care of them there’s really nothing you need to do but check them daily.


Well I never said it is necessary, I just shared a photo of my own rabbit and I do feed her some herbs especially when she was nursing, she loves chamomiles and loves fresh thyme and she deserved some extra treat after kindling, she was an excellent mother and I love her, she's my beautiful pretty Bernie girl.


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## Livvy (Jul 20, 2020)

zuppa said:


> Well I never said it is necessary, I just shared a photo of my own rabbit and I do feed her some herbs especially when she was nursing, she loves chamomiles and loves fresh thyme and she deserved some extra treat after kindling, she was an excellent mother and I love her, she's my beautiful pretty Bernie girl.
> 
> View attachment 49458
> 
> ...


Oh my she is the cutest! 
Checked babies and they are very well fed this morning. Big bellies on 2 and the other 2 are moderately big, bigger than yesterday. 
But..... they keep getting out of the nest. Momma woke me up twice last night thumping. Went in and found babies out, so I put them back. I'm assuming they were just attached when she went out. But she was not happy they were out. 
Today its one out here and there. Im assuming they just wiggle out. 
Should I be concerned? Mommas fine with me checking for the escaped babies and putting them back. I make sure to give her loves everytime. 
When she gets some roaming time ill try to snap pics.


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## zuppa (Jul 20, 2020)

Livvy said:


> Oh my she is the cutest!
> Checked babies and they are very well fed this morning. Big bellies on 2 and the other 2 are moderately big, bigger than yesterday.
> But..... they keep getting out of the nest. Momma woke me up twice last night thumping. Went in and found babies out, so I put them back. I'm assuming they were just attached when she went out. But she was not happy they were out.
> Today its one out here and there. Im assuming they just wiggle out.
> ...


From your pics I didn't get if there's nest box or just pieces of wood, but you could put a strong piece of cardboard or wood where the opening is so they stay inside the nest.

Or place it so it creates a smaller square box as per photo.

Or if you could find some box that would fit into there. Normally nest box should have high sides so they should stay inside, also you are right babies can be still sucking when she jumps out and so get out of the nest on tit. If you make sides high enough it should help.







Your nest is generally fine, maybe slightly bigger than needed. I would just find some high sided box would line with absorbing material like wood pellets, then some shredded paper, hay, then would carefully place the top of your existing nest on top of that. If you get 15 cm high box that would be enough. Strong cardboard box would suit as well.

They will open their eyes around day 10 and after that will start hopping out and back in, around day 14. They will have fur by then and will be able to follow their mother everywhere, begging for milk, so you will need to make her some high shelf or something so she could have time to lay down and relax, maybe you can attach a playpen around her cage so she can spend day in there and you will let her in in the evening so she can nurse. Otherwise she will get stressed since they won't let her lay down.

Here's a video how to prepare a proper nest box, see they have that small piece of wood on top so she can sit there and babies can't reach her so she can get some sleep.


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## Livvy (Jul 20, 2020)

zuppa said:


> From your pics I didn't get if there's nest box or just pieces of wood, but you could put a strong piece of cardboard or wood where the opening is so they stay inside the nest.
> 
> Or place it so it creates a smaller square box as per photo.
> 
> ...



The box is actually her hidey house flipped upside down, since it was short noticed I just used what I had and flipping it over i was able to see the babies without disturbing her. 
I'll look for something I can block the entrance with. 
I moved her cage to a much quieter area which now has a pen area so she can stretch out and i can change her food and water without reaching in the cage. Shes calmed down alot since moving her, she even begs my husband to pet her when he walks by, which she's never done lol


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## zuppa (Jul 20, 2020)

Livvy said:


> The box is actually her hidey house flipped upside down, since it was short noticed I just used what I had and flipping it over i was able to see the babies without disturbing her.
> I'll look for something I can block the entrance with.
> I moved her cage to a much quieter area which now has a pen area so she can stretch out and i can change her food and water without reaching in the cage. Shes calmed down alot since moving her, she even begs my husband to pet her when he walks by, which she's never done lol


I've just added a video of nest box in my previous post.
Yeah, be careful make sure your male rabbit is not around, after kindling females are extremely horny and it would not be good for her and for babies if she gets pregnant while still nursing!

Here's another nest box and you see there's a little piece of wood on top it prevents babies from being dragged with her


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## Livvy (Jul 20, 2020)

zuppa said:


> I've just added a video of nest box in my previous post.
> Yeah, be careful make sure your male rabbit is not around, after kindling females are extremely horny and it would not be good for her and for babies if she gets pregnant while still nursing!
> 
> Here's another nest box and you see there's a little piece of wood on top it prevents babies from being dragged with her


Yes they are 2 rooms apart. The male doesn't come out, except in his pen with supervision. 
I'll have to look around for what I can use for a new nest box. 
Thank you so much!


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## zuppa (Jul 20, 2020)

Maybe you can find plastic box, here's another video, but there's for a large rabbit, yours are smaller so box should be smaller too


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## zuppa (Jul 20, 2020)

Just thought, if you just turn that hidey house you have there 180 degrees so the opening will go by the wall of the cage you will have it sorted. You can add a piece of a cardboard where it is but it will work as is as well. It is slightly bigger than needed but at least babies won't be able to escape.


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## Livvy (Jul 20, 2020)

zuppa said:


> Just thought, if you just turn that hidey house you have there 180 degrees so the opening will go by the wall of the cage you will have it sorted. You can add a piece of a cardboard where it is but it will work as is as well. It is slightly bigger than needed but at least babies won't be able to escape.


Yes i just thought of that as I was adding cardboard to the side so I rotated it. 
They are eating well. Hers the smallest of the 4 and they finally have nice round full bellies. Thank goodness. Feeling way better. Now hopefully they stay in the nest tonight and she doesnt wake me up a bunch stomping like last night lol


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## Livvy (Jul 21, 2020)

Baby update. We have fur growing and they seem healthy. 1 seems alot smaller and wrinkly again but looked fine yesterday so ill keep my eye out. I got some pics while checking them. 
one is by far the biggest and healthiest and I have zero worries for that one. 
They seem healthy and growing for sure even though one is skinnier and smaller (I'm watching that one). 
Thank you for all the help!


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## Happy Hollands (Jul 21, 2020)

Aww, that is wonderful! ❤

It will be easier to tell once they are older, but it looks like you've got 2 black torts (like mama) and 2 chocolate torts / oranges? I'm not sure what color the dad is but that may help.

The smallest kit looks like it would benefit from an assisted feeding with mom. Keep a close eye on it, and make sure it has lots of energy. 

A general rule of thumb is to check daily and all the kits should have a "white tint" (you can literally see the milk in their belly). If not, they might need some help and an extra feeding 

Once they are about 3 weeks old, you may start to notice maloccusion  If so, I advise talking to your vet on if there is anything you can do to help / cure it from a young age. I have heard of some breeders making a brace and have successfully cured it while the baby was young. Obviously consult you vet, as in some cases it may be best to leave alone!

Thanks for the adorable update!!


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## Livvy (Jul 21, 2020)

Happy Hollands said:


> Aww, that is wonderful! ❤
> 
> It will be easier to tell once they are older, but it looks like you've got 2 black torts (like mama) and 2 chocolate torts / oranges? I'm not sure what color the dad is but that may help.
> 
> ...



Yes i was wondering about an assisted feeding for the smallest. Im trying to not be too overbearing so one check once a day. I do around noon cuz mommas in nap mode and doesnt seem to mind getting some her time lol ive been checking for malloclussion everytime and their tiny teeth look fine to me. 
I know she fed them yesterday night as all their bellies were huge. Today not as huge but they were all very active and warm. 
Here's a picture of dad. I was hoping for a nice mix so we had some speckled like him. He is the reason we have them both. I fell in love with him and they were bonded at the store so I got them both. I couldn't seperate them. They said 2 boys and clearly they weren't so i cant wait to get them fixed so they can be together again. Dad (chille) is so sad brownie is gone. Hes gotten extra treats and attention though.


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## Happy Hollands (Jul 21, 2020)

He is gorgeous! Looks like a broken squirrel (aka blue chinchilla) to me. Still baffles me why they were dumped at a pet store, they are beautiful and obviously purebred. Tort is a very dominant gene, hence why the babies look like mom and none like dad.

Super hard to tell until fur grows in completely, but I'm guessing all 4 are torts. Can any other breeders back me up on this??


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## Livvy (Jul 21, 2020)

Happy Hollands said:


> Aww, that is wonderful! ❤
> 
> It will be easier to tell once they are older, but it looks like you've got 2 black torts (like mama) and 2 chocolate torts / oranges? I'm not sure what color the dad is but that may help.
> 
> ...





Happy Hollands said:


> He is gorgeous! Looks like a broken squirrel (aka blue chinchilla) to me. Still baffles me why they were dumped at a pet store, they are beautiful and obviously purebred. Tort is a very dominant gene, hence why the babies look like mom and none like dad.
> 
> Super hard to tell until fur grows in completely, but I'm guessing all 4 are torts. Can any other breeders back me up on this??



Yes i was slightly upset that none came out like dad. I love his coloring. And he's sooooo soft and so sweet. 
Due to moms tooth issues and temperament I was trying to get her fixed. Which would have been today lol well that didn't work out. Lol
Thats crazy that they look purebred and were at a pet store. Im assuming brownie was there due to her tooth issues. But I believe they are from 2 seperate litters and dad is a bit older. Both around 6 months. 
Out of curiosity is dad also a holland? I believe mom is due to her flattish head. But I think dad is more of a mini lop but I could be wrong. Just curious because I know minis are bigger. Right now at 6 months they are close to the same size.


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## Happy Hollands (Jul 21, 2020)

Squirrel is one of the rarest Holland Lop colors (I personally have never got it at my rabbitry, but I don't breed for it).

The biggest difference between Holland Lops and Mini Lops is size. Holland Lops tend to weigh 2.5 - 4.5 lbs fully grown, whereas Mini Lops can weigh around 4.5 - 6.5 lbs. Seeing as they are around 6 months old, they are fully grown. Their weight should determine their breed for you! 

Holland Lops are one of the most popular breed, and their build reminds me of it. Ideally they have a round head and short floppy ears, with a compact body.


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## Livvy (Jul 21, 2020)

Happy Hollands said:


> Squirrel is one of the rarest Holland Lop colors (I personally have never got it at my rabbitry, but I don't breed for it).
> 
> The biggest difference between Holland Lops and Mini Lops is size. Holland Lops tend to weigh 2.5 - 4.5 lbs fully grown, whereas Mini Lops can weigh around 4.5 - 6.5 lbs. Seeing as they are around 6 months old, they are fully grown. Their weight should determine their breed for you!
> 
> Holland Lops are one of the most popular breed, and their build reminds me of it. Ideally they have a round head and short floppy ears, with a compact body.


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## Livvy (Jul 21, 2020)

Huh


Happy Hollands said:


> Squirrel is one of the rarest Holland Lop colors (I personally have never got it at my rabbitry, but I don't breed for it).
> 
> The biggest difference between Holland Lops and Mini Lops is size. Holland Lops tend to weigh 2.5 - 4.5 lbs fully grown, whereas Mini Lops can weigh around 4.5 - 6.5 lbs. Seeing as they are around 6 months old, they are fully grown. Their weight should determine their breed for you!
> 
> Holland Lops are one of the most popular breed, and their build reminds me of it. Ideally they have a round head and short floppy ears, with a compact body.


Not sure what happen with that last post. I weighed him and he's around 3 1/2- 4 pounds. They go to the vets soon for a simple check up. After the surprise litter I called for an appointment. Waiting on a call back. Covid has the offices mostly closed here. But then I'll have a proper weight. 
This was them a few months ago. Separated but monitored. I let them see each other for a few hours a day without touching. 
They are now in completely separate rooms. Lol


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## Happy Hollands (Jul 22, 2020)

Yeah they definitely look like Holland's to me! Adorable regardless


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## Livvy (Jul 23, 2020)

Update time! 
They are fat, big getting so fluffy! I was able to get a tooth picture on one. They all look the same. 
Ones ears are flopping and looks like a baby yoda. And their eyes look to be fluttering like they want to open.


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## Livvy (Jul 23, 2020)

As I look at that picture that ones tooth does look a touch crooked on the bottom left.


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## Happy Hollands (Jul 23, 2020)

Cute! Good news is thay they seem healthy & thriving. Bad news is the teeth do look crooked and the jaw is misaligned - the area around the mouth is also extremely swollen. I wish I had a baby picture to compare it to and show you... maybe look at your bucks' teeth to tell the difference. They should be straight and overlapping slightly. I strongly suggest contacting your vet and see if there is anything you can do to prevent pain / treat the maloccusion. I'm so sorry, I wish I could help more! Since they are born with it, most likely they will think it is normal and find a way to cope once they grow older.

On the bright side, baby yodas floppy ears are way to precious! It looks like you definitely have 1 black tort (the one with a black line down its side).


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## Livvy (Jul 23, 2020)

Happy Hollands said:


> Cute! Good news is thay they seem healthy & thriving. Bad news is the teeth do look crooked and the jaw is misaligned - the area around the mouth is also extremely swollen. I wish I had a baby picture to compare it to and show you... maybe look at your bucks' teeth to tell the difference. They should be straight and overlapping slightly. I strongly suggest contacting your vet and see if there is anything you can do to prevent pain / treat the maloccusion. I'm so sorry, I wish I could help more! Since they are born with it, most likely they will think it is normal and find a way to cope once they grow older.
> 
> On the bright side, baby yodas floppy ears are way to precious! It looks like you definitely have 1 black tort (the one with a black line down its side).



Aren't those floppy ears the cutest! 
I'm making a call into my vet tomorrow, hopefully she has time shes the only rabbit savvy vet within 1 hour drive. But she is very good and knows my rabbits well. 
There's another with the same black markings but it wasn't cooperating for photos. And then 2 that seem all brown. The one with the strong markings was the same as the tooth picture and the only one that cooperated for a good look at them. And it wasn't even noticeably crooked till I looked at the picture after.
This has been quite the experience. And i can't believe how fast they grow. 
Thank you for all your help, everyone's been so helpful.


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## Happy Hollands (Jul 23, 2020)

Livvy said:


> Aren't those floppy ears the cutest!
> I'm making a call into my vet tomorrow, hopefully she has time shes the only rabbit savvy vet within 1 hour drive. But she is very good and knows my rabbits well.
> There's another with the same black markings but it wasn't cooperating for photos. And then 2 that seem all brown. The one with the strong markings was the same as the tooth picture and the only one that cooperated for a good look at them. And it wasn't even noticeably crooked till I looked at the picture after.
> This has been quite the experience. And i can't believe how fast they grow.
> Thank you for all your help, everyone's been so helpful.


Keep us updated on if you can get them to a vet! I'm not sure if they can do anything for the babies at such a young age, and you obviously wants to be careful to avoid stress, and keep them from freezing. Is it possible to wait until the babies are around 3 weeks old and take them in? They start eating pellets and solid food at around 4 weeks, so I strongly recommend getting them check out before they are fully on solid food. 


Perhaps when you are at the vet for your bucks neuter appointment, show her/him pictures and describe the situation and see what (s)he thinks would be back.


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## Livvy (Jul 24, 2020)

Update time! Almost a week old now. 
Got in touch with the vet and sent some pictures for her. She wants to wait till they are bigger before we do anything because they are still growing. To me it only looks like the one may have a problem, but I've never done this before so im probably wrong lol. 
Momma is doing great, she's finally flopping and binkying again and doesnt mind me checking the babies at all. 
Here's your daily dose of cuteness! I love when they cuddle into my hand makes me want to cuddle them forever. 
The last photo is my little runt baby. Now one of the biggest ones.


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## Catlyn (Jul 24, 2020)

They look adorable!


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## zuppa (Jul 24, 2020)

Very cute! 
I wouldn't suggest taking them to vets now, it would be best for them not to leave home until they are at least 8 weeks old. Why did you want to bring them to your vet was that because of teeth? If your vet suggested trimming your rabbit's teeth with a wire cutter I don't think they can be any help in this case tbh


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## Catlyn (Jul 24, 2020)

Nobody said that her vet said anything about trimming with wire cutters? Where'd you get that info from?


zuppa said:


> Very cute!
> I wouldn't suggest taking them to vets now, it would be best for them not to leave home until they are at least 8 weeks old. Why did you want to bring them to your vet was that because of teeth? If your vet suggested trimming your rabbit's teeth with a wire cutter I don't think they can be any help in this case tbh


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## Livvy (Jul 24, 2020)

Catlyn said:


> Nobody said that her vet said anything about trimming with wire cutters? Where'd you get that info from?



Its in my other post. As I decided to not have her knocked out for them to drill them shorter, as anesthesia can be very dangerous. So my vet showed me how to trim them myself. It works for me and my rabbit. And its done in a specific way. 
However in other countries they prefer to pull the teeth all together, which I think is unnecessary and also dangerous.


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## Catlyn (Jul 24, 2020)

Oh all right, now i know!


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## zuppa (Jul 24, 2020)

Catlyn said:


> Nobody said that her vet said anything about trimming with wire cutters? Where'd you get that info from?






> My vet actually taught me how to do it. She just uses wire clippers.
> But brownies snaggle teeth do stick out quite a ways so its simple to do. They do advise against it because you can Crack the tooth. However she's never seen it happen and said to call her if it does and bring her in. I wasn't too sure at first about doing it myself but it was as easy as trimming nails.













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Malocclusion and accidental pregnancy help


Back in April we bought 2 lop bunnies. One holland and one mini so I'm told. I've always had pet bunnies but never 2 so I made sure they were both males. Due to covid I paid over the phone and my husband picked them up. Turns out they are male and female so I've kept them separated. Well I...



www.rabbitsonline.net


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