# Bred Suki



## paul2641 (Jan 23, 2009)

We bred Suki to Roger last night. It has been about a month since she gave birth to her first litter. I only left Suki in Rogers cage for an hour or so. But I did see Roger sugsesfully breed to Suki So I would expect The litter in 31 days, I marked the date on a calender and the due date is a Sunday. So I'm giving myself a whole month to get what I need for the new litter, Although there is nothing I would need because I have the kitten milk formla from the first litter And all the stuff incase the litter is rejected again. So I thought I would tell everyone what I have done, I think it would be cowardly to not tell you just incase something goes wrong and need some advice. And it also would be wrong if something did go wrong and I just come on and say something along the line of, Oh I just had a litter I need some advice. So I am telling everyone for a mark or respect, and incase I need advice.


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## Flashy (Jan 23, 2009)

Where does Savannah live now?


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## irishbunny (Jan 23, 2009)

Good luck! But didn't your mother say no more rabbits, and isn't Sav taken up your last cage?


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## paul2641 (Jan 23, 2009)

*Flashy wrote: *


> Where does Savannah live now?



Still living with Sukura. Oh and My mam still hasn't gotten the cage from her work friend.


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## paul2641 (Jan 23, 2009)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> Good luck! But didn't your mother say no more rabbits, and isn't Sav taken up your last cage?


Thanks, mam said it is ok to breed her because I won't be keeping the kits. I am getting â¬80 in the next 2 or so weeks. and All that money will be going into getting 2 more hutches. Also I am getting the runs set up for when the English rabbits are collected. Also It is possible a trusted friend is going to be taking Savannah. And she really is a trusted friend.


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## Flashy (Jan 23, 2009)

I do thinkits good that you have posted now, after doing this. You need to use this time to get fully prepared to avoid another Savannah situation, and also another previous Suki situation. Hopefully this time you can get everything sorted in advance and poor old Suki can havea far more relaxed pregnancy and a less stressed kindling and hopefully that will mean she is more successful


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## irishbunny (Jan 23, 2009)

Sounds good, good luck!


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## paul2641 (Jan 23, 2009)

*Flashy wrote: *


> I do thinkits good that you have posted now, after doing this. You need to use this time to get fully prepared to avoid another Savannah situation, and also another previous Suki situation. Hopefully this time you can get everything sorted in advance and poor old Suki can havea far more relaxed pregnancy and a less stressed kindling and hopefully that will mean she is more successful


Thanks for the support. I am preparing everything carefully.


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## paul2641 (Jan 23, 2009)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> Sounds good, good luck!


Thanks, If my mothers friend doesn't drop in the cage I will be using one of the new cages for Savannah till I can rehome her. Also Roger is not living with Suki just to make that clear.


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## Sabine (Jan 23, 2009)

*paul2641 wrote: *


> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Sounds good, good luck!
> ...


Savannah is still going to be rehomed? And new babies are welcome?


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## paul2641 (Jan 23, 2009)

*Sabine wrote: *


> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *irishbunny wrote: *
> ...


We are not keeping any of the babies. Also If I have promised her to a friend and She is allowed I can't say no. I Don't think I can ever win. I am trying to do my best.


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## Sabine (Jan 23, 2009)

You are aware that as a breeder if any babies have handicaps or for whatever reason are not sellable you will need to provide a home for them. And more importantly, how does your mom feel about that?


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## paul2641 (Jan 23, 2009)

*Sabine wrote: *


> You are aware that as a breeder if any babies have handicaps or for whatever reason are not sellable you will need to provide a home for them. And more importantly, how does your mom feel about that?


Yes I know, I have told my mother all this and she has agreed. The reason I can't keep Savannah is because It was for mams friend not me. I just get the feeling anything I try you are against I am trying my best.


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## Sabine (Jan 23, 2009)

Good Luck


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## Flashy (Jan 23, 2009)

I think what you have to remember Paul is that the forum has seen you make a lot of mistakes, due to not listening,and people are worried for the welfare of your buns and you making bad mistakes again. Having said that, whilst I think it is a shame you didn't post before breeding, I think you have done absolutely the right thing by posting and asking for help because we can help you be prepared. 

On a side note, why is it you want to breed so badly? I just wonder because everyone has different reasons and I know mine were very different from anyone else I have come across, so I just wondered, that's all.


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## paul2641 (Jan 23, 2009)

*Flashy wrote: *


> I think what you have to remember Paul is that the forum has seen you make a lot of mistakes, due to not listening,and people are worried for the welfare of your buns and you making bad mistakes again. Having said that, whilst I think it is a shame you didn't post before breeding, I think you have done absolutely the right thing by posting and asking for help because we can help you be prepared.
> 
> On a side note, why is it you want to breed so badly? I just wonder because everyone has different reasons and I know mine were very different from anyone else I have come across, so I just wondered, that's all.


You are completely right. I have made loads of mistakes but doesn't this prove I'm trying to prove myself as a responsible rabbit owner. There are many reasons I want to breed "so badly" Alot of them are personal reasons. But one reason is It gives me personal enjoyment, and I enjoy the fact that these creatures will get the best I can give. Everyone this is only a small factor, It has alot of Personal reasons behind it.


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## Flashy (Jan 23, 2009)

I wasn't having a go, merely saying why maybe Sabine is saying the things she is. It takes a big person to recognise and admit mistakes and an even bigger person to learn from them. I have made mistakes, horrific mistake,s but it actually made me a better bun owner, and hopefully yours will make you a better bun owner. It sounds, right now, like it will.


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## paul2641 (Jan 23, 2009)

*Flashy wrote: *


> I wasn't having a go, merely saying why maybe Sabine is saying the things she is. It takes a big person to recognise and admit mistakes and an even bigger person to learn from them. I have made mistakes, horrific mistake,s but it actually made me a better bun owner, and hopefully yours will make you a better bun owner. It sounds, right now, like it will.


Thanks for all this support. I am so glad I joined RO it is one of the main reasons Why I'm growing to make the right decisions not for myself but for the creatures I care for.


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## irishbunny (Jan 23, 2009)

This is not ment to look like an attack, but I thought I would just say why I sometimes look like I'm being blunt in some of your topics. It's because sometimes you seem to make mistakes, alot of mistakes, but alot of the mistakes you made, you should have known better about e.g. housing your rabbits together. It's like sometimes you make mistakes on purpose, if you get what I mean, knowing that it's not right. Like you might ask for advice here and then do the total opposite to what people said.

Sometimes your topics leave me feeling ticked off and frustrated, so I have decided to try and avoid your topics, and hope someone calmer with good knowledge to come along and answer it, so I am going to try and not post in your topics if I don't agree with you or am a bit ticked off with what your doing, even though I sometimes find it hard to do.

I have no problem with you breeding or anyone breeding once it's done with the right supplies and care.

This is not ment to be an attack but I thought I would just tell you the truth on how I feel and wish Suki the best of luck.


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## Peek-a-boo (Jan 23, 2009)

to be honest i think breeding now is good because not only will it give you experience and enhance your knowledge on rabbits before you get your england breeding stock but it will tell you if breeding is right for you if that makes sense i always wanted to be a breeder but after having a litter of my own i found it heartbreaking and couldnt cope emotionally with it so it told me it wasnt for me and maybe this is a good experience to tell you whether its right for you or not if that makes sense


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## paul2641 (Jan 23, 2009)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> This is not ment to look like an attack, but I thought I would just say why I sometimes look like I'm being blunt in some of your topics. It's because sometimes you seem to make mistakes, alot of mistakes, but alot of the mistakes you made, you should have known better about e.g. housing your rabbits together. It's like sometimes you make mistakes on purpose, if you get what I mean, knowing that it's not right. Like you might ask for advice here and then do the total opposite to what people said.
> 
> Sometimes your topics leave me feeling ticked off and frustrated, so I have decided to try and avoid your topics, and hope someone calmer with good knowledge to come along and answer it, so I am going to try and not post in your topics if I don't agree with you or am a bit ticked off with what your doing, even though I sometimes find it hard to do.
> 
> ...


This is one of your nicer attacks.


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## paul2641 (Jan 23, 2009)

*Peek-a-boo wrote: *


> to be honest i think breeding now is good because not only will it give you experience and enhance your knowledge on rabbits before you get your england breeding stock but it will tell you if breeding is right for you if that makes sense i always wanted to be a breeder but after having a litter of my own i found it heartbreaking and couldnt cope emotionally with it so it told me it wasnt for me and maybe this is a good experience to tell you whether its right for you or not if that makes sense


I have already bred Suki but the litter failed they were all dead by the age of one week. I'm hoping Suki won't abandon these kits. Plus it will tell me can I handle it in a larger scale.


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## NZminilops (Jan 23, 2009)

Good luck!  I think it sounds like you are really thinking about what you are doing.

I love all your rabbits name by the way.


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## paul2641 (Jan 23, 2009)

*NZminilops wrote: *


> Good luck!  I think it sounds like you are really thinking about what you are doing.
> 
> I love all your rabbits name by the way.


I've decided I'm going to call all my female rabbits, a name begining with "s" And all my males will be called something begining with "r". So far Roger,Suki,Sukura,Savannah and we will see what happens when I'm back from England, Well I have to plan If I want to do what is best for Suki. Who I love so much.


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## NZminilops (Jan 23, 2009)

I would have to say I love Sukara as a name . I find it curious though how people always spell is Sekura and Sukura? I've only seen Sakura as a name till I came to RO. Suki is a great name.

I hope it goes well and that you'll have some good baby bunny news for us in a month .


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## paul2641 (Jan 23, 2009)

*NZminilops wrote: *


> I would have to say I love Sukara as a name . I find it curious though how people always spell is Sekura and Sukura? I've only seen Sakura as a name till I came to RO. Suki is a great name.
> 
> I hope it goes well and that you'll have some good baby bunny news for us in a month .


Thanks, I had always wanted to call a pet sukura, I was going to call suki sukura but mam really disliked it so I said suki. But when I got sukura it had to be called sukura.


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## Sabine (Jan 24, 2009)

And I want to make one last point and explain why I am so angry. I think the only thing you learned from your mistakes is to say the thing people want to hear. 

http://add.ie/female_lionhead_rabbit-o32577-en.html


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## paul2641 (Jan 24, 2009)

*Sabine wrote: *


> And I want to make one last point and explain why I am so angry. I think the only thing you learned from your mistakes is to say the thing people want to hear.
> 
> http://add.ie/female_lionhead_rabbit-o32577-en.html


Yes you all know I can't keep Savannah. The babies won't be a permanant fix.


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## Peek-a-boo (Jan 25, 2009)

*paul2641 wrote: *


> *Sabine wrote: *
> 
> 
> > And I want to make one last point and explain why I am so angry. I think the only thing you learned from your mistakes is to say the thing people want to hear.
> ...



they might be if they have deformaties or health problems not many people will be willing to take on a rabbit that has dental problems etc. one of my does babies got dental problems at 6 weeks old making it unrehomable i also had another babie who had an eye problem andtook seizuresalso making it unrehomable. as a breeder you must take the responsability of keeping any babies that are unrehomable and getting the right vet treatment for them. my girl crystal needs dentals every6 weeks this is an example of what you could expect especially breeding from rabbits you dont know the genetic history of.

that wasnt a dig just a warning of what might happen and what you have to expect.


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## Flashy (Jan 25, 2009)

Oh dear, that advert is sad and also inaccurate.

Peek-a-boo, that's great advice you gave there.


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## murph72 (Jan 25, 2009)

Paul,

If your mom were willing to allow you to have the rabbit you currently are trying to sell, I'd say go ahead and breed. However, since your mom isn't even willing to let you keep that one, I can't imagine why she allowed you to breed more of them. 

Breeding rabbits is a great responsibility. As you've been told, it requires you to keep those that will not make good pets. Your mom wouldn't let you keep a perfectly healthy rabbit, how will she feel about keeping some that might need vet attention on a regular basis? That can get very costly, in addition to be time-consuming. Yes, it can go great and you can have perfect little babies, but unfortunately that is not always the case. 

If these little ones turn out to be healthy, I'd recommend counting your blessings and holding off on breeding until you have the money to seriously breed. As a breeder I can tell you I do it for the love of my bunnies, just as I imagine is your reasoning. The difference is that I have another job and I can afford sinking thousands of dollars a year intomy bunnies.


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## jcl_24 (Jan 27, 2009)

Savanah does look like a lovely pet rabbit Paul . I hope she can be settled into a permanent home soon.

In dreamland, I wishedafter readingabout her thatI could have her transported to me to keep, in reality that isn't at all possible. I live in England. Am living in my family home and my Dad doesn't want me to have anymore rabbits than the two I already haveat this address.

Good luck with the situation.

Jo xx


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## Flashy (Feb 26, 2009)

Did you get your kits? I haven't heard anything from you since the day they were due, so please let us know


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## Pipp (Feb 26, 2009)

Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier. I'd like to respectfully ask that posters in this thread state their opinions but then refrain from posting. 

It really isn't anybody's business what Paul does with his rabbits. He's providing excellent care. 

People can offer advice, but there it is up to Paul whether he wants to listen or not. If he chooses not to take that advice, it's his prerogative and should not be harassed for that decision and forced to not be forthcoming with information to avoid the harassment. 

Apologies to Paul for not catching this sooner. 


sas


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## Numbat (Feb 27, 2009)

From what I've heard, everything's going well 

The kits are late though, they were due on the 22nd, still weren't here on the 25th but apparently that's okay.

Hope to hear some news soon and that everything is going well!


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## murph72 (Feb 27, 2009)

Pipp,

I respectfully disagree with you. If Paul posts in the breeders section asking for breeders' opinions, he should be able to take those opinions. Not every breeder is going to think that breeding is a good decision all the time...even if we ourselves breed. Many of us waited years until we had the correct setup and animals that we wanted to breed. I think advising potential breeders like Paul to take their time, learn what they are doing, and then proceed with caution is a good message. 

In no way do I feel I "harassed" Paul. I stated why I thought he should hold off before breeding any more rabbits. Yes, it is his decision to follow that advice if he so chooses. However, I'm also, quite frankly, more concerned with the welfare of Paul's bunnies than in hurting Paul's feelings. We can't all be making "Go ahead, breed all your rabbits!" posts as that is not the feelings we possess. We have to promote responsible breeding regardless. 

Dyan


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## paul2641 (Feb 27, 2009)

Thanks pipp, Murph72 I understand what your saying and In the future I will think before I act.


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## Flashy (Feb 27, 2009)

*pokes Paul for update*


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## Bramblerose (Feb 27, 2009)

Paul I don't know if anyone mentioned it before but first time does often lose their first litters. Its the reason why I always breed two experienced mothers at the same time as a maiden, in case she does not care for them I then foster them over onto the other 2 does. I realize that doesn't really apply in your case but its something to think about for the future. Always have a backup, I have a couple of does that I keep for foster mothers, they are incredible and would try to raise a rock. I really dislike losing babies, its upsetting whether your a new or old breeder. Many first time does just do not 'get' it the first time, they don't pull fur, have their kits on the wire, or just ignore them. One sign that the doe is not going to care for her kits is that she urinates on them and uses the nest box as a litter box while their in it. Try to avoid upsets, block off some of her view from the cage and make it more cave like, and keep all other animals away from her. Good luck, I hope you get healthy happy babies.


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## Peek-a-boo (Feb 27, 2009)

what happened to Sukura just noticed shes no longer down as one your buns :?

hope Suki has asafe delivery if she has any kits and they all survive


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## murph72 (Feb 27, 2009)

Paul,

That's great to hear, and I certainly hope you were not offended by any of the advice you were given. We're all bunny people and we're certainly all going to look out for the best interest of your buns, as well as for you. I'd hate to see you in a situation where you'd lose your precious pet, as that can happen in a bad labor situation. Everyone likes to make the statement that they "breed like bunnies," but I notice breeders don't necessarily make those statements.  Yes, some rabbits get pregnant easily and have uncomplicated births. Unfortunately, breeders know that they don't all end up so nicely. It's great to know you're learning from the board's more experienced breeders and will take the breeder process slowly.

What Bramblerose said was definitely true in that many of us breed more than one on a given day so that you can always foster a baby, two babies, or an entire litter if necessary. I'd also suggest that prior to doing this that you make sure that you know the market of your area. Make sure that you can find homes for two litters of babies. This is especially true in your situation since you're still living at home and have to have permission from your mom to have any more pets. 

When was your doe due? What day of her pregnancy is she on? Or did she already have them?

Dyan


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## Numbat (Feb 27, 2009)

She was due on the 22nd and Paul thinks she probably wasn't pregnant after all but I'm sure he'll give a better update.


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## murph72 (Feb 27, 2009)

Either that or she absorbed them. It happens sometimes.


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## Numbat (Feb 27, 2009)

:expressionless That just sounded a bit scary.

_She absorbed them..._

Sounds like some kind of supernatural power lol. I know it happens and is normal but just the way it sounds 

Better keep an eye on Suki, she might _absorb _you!


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## murph72 (Feb 27, 2009)

It is kind of freaky. You can palpitate a doe and find babies and then she doesn't have them. I had one Holland doe that actually had (pardon the grossness here) a lump of bloody skin that I found in her pen. She must have absorbed the kits as I never found any evidence of what we'd expect from a miscarriage at that point in the pregnancy. Just this object in her pen. A lot of times you find nothing. Freaky how nature works in bunnies. I wonder why they don't have miscarriages like a human does. Odd.


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## Luv-bunniz (Feb 28, 2009)

*murph72 wrote: *


> I wonder why they don't have miscarriages like a human does. Odd.


Maybe as not to attract predators in the wild?


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## paul2641 (Feb 28, 2009)

Well over due. The one time I plan a pregnancy There are No babies.


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## Bramblerose (Feb 28, 2009)

Dogs can reabsorb their young as well, one day she's obviously pregnant, and then her belly deflates over a number of days, its very disheartening. Rabbits can and do pass 'blobs', like the lump of bloody skin that Murph described. It is possibly caused by test breeding the doe after she's already been bred a few weeks prior. Old timers used to test breed does to see if they were bred, theory being that the doe would not accept the buck if she was pregnant, and normally thats the case. But as does have two uterine horns they could have an existing litter in one horn, and then conceive in the second horn. This can result in neither 'litter' developing properly and the doe may then pass blobs. No doubt other situations can cause it as well, like not reabsorbing completely. I do not test breed, so I've never had first hand experience, I'd rather wait the extra two weeks. Then there's mummified kits, thats a whole other weird phenomena.

Paul sometimes they just don't take, it could be stress, it could be age, too young too old, it could be body weight, fat does often cannot conceive. It can even be the time of year and the amount of daylight. You know what they say about the best laid plans--


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Feb 28, 2009)

Did Sukura find a new home?
I too, noticed your "bunnies" thing under your name said you only had 2 bunnies. 

Emily


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## murph72 (Mar 1, 2009)

Bramblerose,

This doe was not test bred. She was actually only bred once to the buck, although I often will try to breed twice within the same day. The only reason I didn't with her is that I had an issue that kept me away from the rabbitry too long, IMO, to comfortably want to put her back in with him. I do not practice test breeding. I'm not a proponent of it because I feel any undue stress can cause a doe to lose her kits.

This doe has been known to pass one of these blobs during her normal pregnancies. She can have healthy kits and then just have a leftover blob that is rather small and is found within her pen. I was wondering if it might be the uterine wall....just a thought.


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## Bramblerose (Mar 1, 2009)

Murph I was not at all alluding that you did test breed, thats why I also mentioned other possibilities. I know what your talking about now though, since you mentioned that you have seen it when she delivered live kits, its part of the placenta. I have found it before, when the doe hadn't cleaned up completely. Flat, meaty, kind of round? They do normally clean everything up, so its uncommon that I've found one myself.


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## Numbat (Mar 1, 2009)

*BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *


> Did Sukura find a new home?
> I too, noticed your "bunnies" thing under your name said you only had 2 bunnies.
> 
> Emily


Roger's gone too. I hope they all found good homes.

_Mummified kits _sounds scary too


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## murph72 (Mar 1, 2009)

Bramblerose,

I didn't mean to imply that you accused me of necessarily test breeding...I just wanted to make sure that you knew I didn't do that. Sweet Pea (the doe I'm talking about) is so very small that I'd be afraid of a double pregnancy killing her. She's a petite little thing that has a hard enough time with one pregnancy. 

Yeah, it was kind of rolled up when I found it and in the same corner. It must be the corner of the pen of her choice. I thought it was interesting that I found one when she lost her kits (absorbed them) and also when she gave birth. I guess this little girl is not interested in cleaning that part up.  She seems to deposit this out on the wire, but she always has her kits inside the nest box. You'd think if you found this that you'd also find the babies and they'd have miscarried. It's amazing that they can absorb a baby that is that far along.

What did you mean by mummified kits? I can't say that I've had any that I would have called mummified. I've had dead kits, pencil kits, and stuck kits....but I don't knowbout mummified kits.


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## Bramblerose (Mar 3, 2009)

Mummified kits occur when a kit dies in utero, late term, and its not expelled when the rest of the litter is delivered. I have felt mummified kits in does, haven't seen one up close that was expelled. Sometimes they can be retained for some time, keeping the doe from conceiving, or the doe can conceive in the other horn. I've heard of mummified kits being expelled when the doe is put in with a buck for breeding, or if she manages to carry a live litter full term, they'll be born along with the live kits. For some reason often they don't go septic from the dead retained kit, although they could. Its pretty icky, and bizarre at the same time.


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