# Some info I think all breeders should consider



## TinysMom (Jul 22, 2009)

The last 36-48 hours have been stressful for us as a family. I share this information not to point fingers at others...but to warn other breeders so you can make sure you are prepared for what we went through.

On Monday - late afternoon - there was a knock at the door with two animal control officers...they had received a complaint that we had two many rabbits (there was also some other information but they would not tell me who filed the complaint). I let them into my rabbitry and showed them the rabbits. They called in to the main headquarters and said that I probably would have to get rid of the rabbits as there was a city limit and they would be considered "pets". I think I probably shot myself in the foot when I explained that I wasn't breeding anymore.

I explained that I would go in to speak to their supervisor later this week - I had to work the next day.

When I got home from work yesterday afternoon (I'd been home about 10 minutes maybe)....there was another knock at the door. Turns out there was a SECOND complaint about me....that I had rabbits in the garage and they needed to check it out. I laughed - directed them to the garage and then came inside and opened the garage door for them. Mind you - the garage is a horrid mess and there are old rabbit cages out there that need to be cleaned....but I invited them in and said, "Look for the bunnies...anywhere you want...". 

We stood and talked for a bit and I was told that the complaints were definitely from someone outside the area...they asked if I knew people from outside the state or across the state, etc. I explained that yes I did...and they agreed that it sounded like it could be some sort of a vendetta. I told them that I would be in this morning to talk to their supervisor.

What they didn't know was that I had called Pipp the night before - and she went looking into the ordinances - she called me back shortly afterwards and said, "It looks like you meet the requirements of a breedery/rabbitry/kennel....so go in and talk to them with proof that you meet the requirements..". I did that today.

If people want to hear more details about it - I'll be glad to share in a future post some of what I had to show them and what the requirements were for my town.

I went in and spoke to the supervisor today and we had a very good talk. I was very respectful of him and did not yell at him or anything like that. I mainly stated that I felt I qualified for this exclusion and I would like to discuss with him my case.

I showed him some of the following things...


A letter from ARBA stating my membership date and a recommended minimum cage size for lionheads
Copies of the ARBA magazine that go out to members
Copies of show reports
A trophy we won at a state show for BOSB
A ribbon from lionhead nationals
The old lionhead guidebook where I wrote an article on the history of lionheads and the lionhead club (back in 2006) - it had my name as the author
Copies of pedigrees
Information on contacting Gail Gibbons who currently holds the COD for lionheads with ARBA (since they are not yet a recognized breed although they are considered an 'exhibition' breed) - along with the fact that she was an expert witness for rabbit abuse cases for the humane society when she lived in Minnesota - she was willing to speak with them about how many rabbits breeders will often have.
*The upshot of all this?*

The supervisor replied that he was very impressed with the information I brought in and that it was very OBVIOUS that I was a 'reputable' breeder since I was a member of ARBA and had my pedigrees in order and even had show reports showing my wins, etc. 

He understood that I was not breeding because I felt I had enough bunnies and that I was hoping to start showing again this fall but had taken a break for a bit due to high gas prices last year, etc.

Next Wednesday - he is sending the same two guys out to check out the rabbitry again - giving me time to get it in order. Once they approve of it - then he's going to issue me something stating that I am a breeder and excluded from some of the regs. If they don't approve - we'll schedule a revisit (although I'm sure we'll meet their approval).

I explained to him that when you have a large number of rabbits in a small area - and summer hits - they start molting and that a lot of the fur they were seeing was because of that...and he agreed that once the cages were cleaned up more, etc. - that we should not have an issue.
​So...why are you sharing what must be embarrassing information Peg?

Its simple really - I don't want any other breeders here on this forum to possibly lose their rabbits because of something like this. As I talked to ARBA and others, I'm hearing that things like this are happening all the time.

Even the supervisor told me today that when he spoke to the person/people both times....he sensed that this was a "vendetta" type of thing and that it happens a lot - but he also said that by law he has to check it out anyway.

*Here are my recommendations for the breeders reading this:

*
Find out what your city/county/state laws about animals - specifically if you live within city limits
Join ARBA *asap* and also any specialty breed clubs for the breeds you're working on - this way you can show that you have a membership in a professional organization
Keep your show reports together - along with trophies, ribbons, etc. (I tend to just toss them aside cause they don't mean much to me...I like to see the other breeders and learn more about my rabbits)
Make sure you have pedigrees - even if they're only one or two generations and not fully pedigreed.
Finally....*watch what you say - and who you say it to.

In my case - there was some major information that was provided to them that could have ONLY come from this forum and things I've shared. I'm not going into details and I'm not going to debate "could it be this person?" or "could it be that person?". Honestly...it doesn't matter at this point....

In the next post - I'll share our regulations and how I answered them in the discussion....and how I put together my packet...




*


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## TinysMom (Jul 22, 2009)

This is the letter I gave the animal control officer when I took my package of things to show him...
[line]
*Sec. 5-4. Determination of who is a breeder.*
The supervisor of animal control shall have the duty and responsibility of determining who is a breeder and shall note his determination in writing, giving specific reasons for his decision. In making the determination of whether a person is a breeder, the supervisor of animal control shall consider the following criteria:

 (1)Whether the person claiming to be a breeder is registered as a breeder with organizations such as the AmericanKennelClub, UnitedKennelClub, American Bulldog Association, or American Dog Breeders Association. *

* *I have a letter stating I've been a breeder with ARBA (American Rabbit Breeders Association - which is the Rabbit equivilant of the American Dog Breeders Association) since June 3, 2005. I have also provided back issues of magazines that are sent out ONLY to their members.*​(2)Whether the animals the person is breeding are recognized breeds by one (1) or more of the organizations in subsection (1) above. *

* *Lionheads are in the process of becoming a recognized breed and Gail Gibbons will address that if needed. They are currently being shown as an "exhibition breed" since Gail Gibbons passed the siamese sable lionheads at the last presention. Many shows here in Texas accept all colors of lionheads.

Reference: Gail Gibbons (current COD holder for lionheads) - 
When the Gibbons lived in Minnesota, the Humane Society would call her as an "expert witness" in cases involving rabbits. Gail has given permission for you to call her if you want.

(I'm not including Gail's phone number here)
*​(3)Whether the animals the person is breeding are registered with one (1) of the organizations in subsection (1) above. *

* *I am considered "registered" by ARBA because I have a membership and have had it since June 3, 2005. My rabbitry's name (El Rey Lionheads) is also registered with them.*​ *
*(4)The length of time the person claiming to be a breeder has been registered, or his breeds have been registered, with one (1) of the organizations in subsection (1) above. 
 *Per the attached letter from ARBA - **this is my 5th year with ARBA.*​(5)The degree of participation of the person or his animals in breeder organization activities such as dog shows. *

*
* Please consider the trophy I am showing from Seguin, TX, the ribbon I am showing from Lionhead Nationals in Ohio and the random show report I am showing from here in Texas.*

(6)Whether the animals are being used for illegal activities such as animal fighting. *

* *I currently know of no illegal uses for rabbits - and I do not breed them for meat.*​ (7)The adequacy of the space and facilities for breeding. 

*Gail Gibbons can address this issue as many many rabbit breeders have a large number of rabbits. As she pointed out to me on the phone - there is one type of show for youth members where they are judged for their knowledge based upon the number of rabbits they have. The categories are (1-10), (11-25), (26-50) and (51 - 100 or more). As she pointed out to me on the phone - if youth breeders often have over 100 rabbits - it should not be surprising that adult breeders can have many rabbits.

In addition, in the letter from ARBA - they state the minimum recommended cage size for lionheads. All of my cages are the recommended minimum size or bigger.
*​ (8)Whether the person claiming to be a breeder maintains pedigree records for the animals being bred. 

*I have brought along 6 sample pedigrees which show some of the breeders I have purchased from - to show that I have invested money in my rabbits and bought quality rabbits.*​ (9)Whether the area in question is properly zoned. 

(10)Any other factors the supervisor of animal control deems relevant.

 Any person who presents proof to the supervisor of animal control that he has been continuously registered with one (1) of the organizations in subsection (1) above for the preceding twenty-four (24) months shall be presumed to be a breeder. *(Please note that according to the letter from ARBA, I have 49 months with ARBA). *

Alternatively, any person who presents proof to the supervisor of animal control that the animals he is breeding have produced in each of the preceding two (2) calendar years at least one (1) animal registered with one (1) of the organizations in subsection (1) above shall be presumed to be a breeder.
(Ord. No. 2005-62, Â§ 2, 10-25-05)


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## Flashy (Jul 22, 2009)

Oh Peg, I'm so sorry this has happened and so sorry there is something sad and pathetic enough to do this to you. i'm really glad though, that they were reasonable and listened to what you had to say and that you got it sall sorted out (pending next week's visit).

Stuff like this has also happened on another forum I go on and people get unnecessary visits from RSPCA inspectors.

You know the really sad thing? Whoever it was that made that call has wasted the time of those officers. Hopefully though that hasn't meant that truly neglected animals have suffered because of that person'as ridiculous vendetta. i hope they feel guilt because if they have made neglected animals suffer because of their pettiness, that is inexcusable.


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## kirbyultra (Jul 22, 2009)

Peg, I'm so glad you had all of your things in order to show the supervisor as proof. I'm so sorry you had to go through this. It sounds very scary. I wish you best of luck with the follow up. I'm not a breeder, probably never will be, but this was an interesting read. I'd hate to see bunnies taken away from a good responsible person because of something like this.


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## maherwoman (Jul 22, 2009)

Wow...that's incredible. ((HUGS)) to you with what you've had to go through.

I'm glad that you were able to show them what you had, and that things got squared away. You've been through so much in the past six months (longer, even), that you didn't need this, too.

We've had a couple of unnecessary visits from Animal Control, too. Once when a past landlord wanted to get personal about things and didn't know anything about the laws about rabbits, and once when they had to be outside during our whole ordeal over the past year...and both times, we "passed" with flying colors. So, I know what it's like to have someone do something like this. (I think you and I might have even talked about the first incident.)

I know you and I have a rough past...but I just want you to know...I do still care, both about you and about the buns...and am happy you're both thriving.

Wow...


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## TinysMom (Jul 22, 2009)

I was really surprised that it happened (sorta - but not really. I know someone had thought of turning me in before and of course it got back to me). 

What shocked me was how kind the supervisor was....how he listened to me (and wasn't bothered by my occasional tearing up...how he understood that there are people who want to be "drama queens" and create problems or use them for vendettas, etc. He said it is unfortunate that when they recognize a caller is doing that - that they still have to go out and make a visit anyway.

The upside of this is a couple of things (besides the new power washer that Art has been having a blast with).

First of all - I now have sort of established a "relationship" of sorts with him. Once that they approve me...I can talk to him about rabbits and be a resource for them to know about if they have rabbits turned in to them.

Secondly - before I left - I asked him to please thank the two gentlemen who visited me. I explained that it must be tough to do a job like this and that if I'd come across rude to them - I apologized...I was just in shock. I also told him that I wanted it noted that the two people who came to see me were VERY polite and VERY kind and they were not harsh or rude in any way. I felt like they were the perfect example of what an animal control inspector should be like and it was obvious that they cared about the animals...but also the person who had the animals.

For a bit there - it looked like they might give me 7 - 10 days to rehome all my rabbits. Instead...it worked out for good.


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## TinysMom (Jul 22, 2009)

*maherwoman wrote: *


> I know you and I have a rough past...but I just want you to know...I do still care, both about you and about the buns...and am happy you're both thriving.
> 
> Wow...


Thank you Rosie - that means a lot to me - it really does.

I have been in tears a lot - more than I can explain...thinking of what I would do without my rabbits.

As much as I hated this experience - if it can help someone else avoid this situation or avoid losing their rabbits - then I'm glad I shared it.


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## maherwoman (Jul 22, 2009)

Wow...I can't imagine you having to rehome them all...

I did the same thing with the first visit we had (the second one I heard about their visit after the fact...we weren't there when they visited, so I didn't know who to call)...apologizing for my anger/crying, and thanking them for being so professional, letting them know I appreciate WHY they came over, and they understood that it was a personal vendetta in my case, too. I just wanted to let them know they did something good for the community in what they had to do all the time. 

It must be hard having their job...I know I could never do it.


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## maherwoman (Jul 22, 2009)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> *maherwoman wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I know you and I have a rough past...but I just want you to know...I do still care, both about you and about the buns...and am happy you're both thriving.
> ...


I absolutely agree...and I think it bears a *great *lesson for bun owners (especially multiple bun owners)...RESEARCH YOUR CITY/AREA'S CODES on animals, so you can be prepared in case someone does something like this. *It's so important. *

It's one of the first things I did when we moved here, was check for any regulations on number or space requirements. It appears so far that we're in the clear (as we want somewhere around the same number we had before, which is a lot in some people's eyes).

I have to tell ya, my own experiences scared the poop outta me...and really showed me that I had to be prepared, just in case. You never know when someone will get a crazy idea in their head or will decide to do this very thing for whatever reason they might have. It's always best to be prepared. When someone knows what you love, they might take advantage and try to hit you in the heart.

I'm so happy things turned out well...

And I have to say...Art's having a *blast*? That's too PUNNY! 

P.S. I meant every word...and will always care. I don't say "I love you" lightly, and when I do, it never goes away...I always continue to care.


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## JadeIcing (Jul 22, 2009)

Woohoo! It is all I have to say.


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## TinysMom (Jul 22, 2009)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> Woohoo! It is all I have to say.


Yeah....like "now she can stop calling me and crying on the phone..."

Right?


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## Brandy456 (Jul 22, 2009)

Thats such un-needed stress that someone would try to throw at you. 
and lol about the garage theory. 
:hug:


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## CKGS (Jul 22, 2009)

Wow Peg. That does sound very scary. I am glad to hear that things seem to be progressing so well though. It does kind of make one think about being careful who you talk to or trust online though. That's very frustrating and sad.... I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers, praying for a good outcome on this next inspection.


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Jul 22, 2009)

oh gosh Peg I am so sorry that someone has wasted the spca's precious time, and that you had to go through something like this, it is so sad. I am glad that you were able to get it all straightened out and everything is ok.

It is a real shame that someone wasted thier time for a vendetta, the spca's are busy enough with the REAL animals abusers and neglected animals not to have thier time wasted by someones untrue information. Again i am glad that you were able to get through this and get it all straightened out.


And not to jump in here but i was thinking that this could happen to any of us, not just breeders (of course breeders have more rabbits then the normal rabbit owner), but this could happen to anyone of us on here, all because of someone getting mad at us, or not liking us, so sad.

Hugs Peg


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## JadeIcing (Jul 22, 2009)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> *JadeIcing wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Woohoo! It is all I have to say.
> ...


Nope. I like talking to you. Call me later.


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## myLoki (Jul 22, 2009)

Wow, Peg. Just... wow. I can't believe it. If it weren't for you, I wouldn't have my beautiful baby girl. You were wonderful enough to meet me halfway, and I remember how much you love her because you cried when you gave her to me. 

I'm so sorry you went through all that. Good triumphed!

t.


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## polly (Jul 22, 2009)

Peg I am so sorry you have had to go through that the thought of someone on here doing that is sickening to me tbh I am very unimpressed :grumpy:

For everyone who reads this This is a very unusual forum there are not very many forums that will accept breeders as well as pet owners. And for many pet owners there is much they can learn from breeders if they want to or take the time to. Things like this really make me understand why the other forums I frequent (one in particular) you MUST be known as a breeder on the show circuit to get into it. Yes its a shame but people who do things like what has happened to you make breedersfeel that way. 



I am so glad you are ok as are your rabbits. *hugs* to you Peg and Kudos for the way you have handled it in particular telling the forum about it. Certaily shows who the bigger person is in the situation 

(My friend had the SSPCA put onto him at xmas as he was away and had people looking after his rabbits Bruce and I included. Bruce was there for the inspection and the woman who did the check was so impressed with the set up and teh state of the rabbits which I admit we found reassuring as our set up is almost identical but its still a horrible thought and process to go through)


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## anneq (Jul 22, 2009)

*Flashy wrote: *


> You know the really sad thing? Whoever it was that made that call has wasted the time of those officers. Hopefully though that hasn't meant that truly neglected animals have suffered because of that person'as ridiculous vendetta. i hope they feel guilt because if they have made neglected animals suffer because of their pettiness, that is inexcusable.


Dittos what Flashy said.

I truly am sickened that someone on this forum would be so vindictive as to sic the authorities on you because of God knows what reason(s).
I've been on numerous forums (not just rabbits) and Peg is by far one of the best mods I've seen.
I think you handled the whole situation with grace and maturity (even though you were obviously shaken on the inside). 
Considering the incidents you've gone through in the last few months, I feel so awful that you would have to go through this.

.../hugs to you Peg
I'm sure the next inspection will go off without a hitch.


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## paul2641 (Jul 22, 2009)

TinysMom Your so sweet hearted how could anyone do such an awful thing to you? Everyone knows you are one of the most responsible person on the forum when it comes to there bunnies! God this really is a joke:X.


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## Wabbitdad12 (Jul 22, 2009)

I am glad things are going to turn of well. I agree that you have handled this well and that you took the high road. I am also happy the SPCA supervisor recognized it for what it is/was, a vendetta.

It mad me really mad to think someone from the forum would do this. People shouldn't have to "sanitize" or "guard" what they say on here, for fear that someone will use it against them.

Thank you for posting what happened.


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## NorthernAutumn (Jul 22, 2009)

[align=center]
[/align][align=center]BOOO-YEAH!
I AM DOING A JIG!
[/align][align=center]:highfive::highfive::highfive::highfive::highfive::highfive::highfive:
[/align] 
[align=left]We shall PIN this VIP info packet ASAP.
An incredible, heartwrenching tale of how a history of responsibility and organization can come through in even the darkest hours.

Words fail me... I am overjoyed.
[/align][align=left](Tell Art I also want to come play with the power washer... Nate just got one here, and it really is a blast!)
[/align]


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## irishbunny (Jul 22, 2009)

All I can say is I can't believe someone on this forum would do that, how sad, when it's obvious you really care about your rabbits in your blog posts, this is quite upsetting, now we will have to watch what we say on the forum, it bugs me there may be a rat on here.


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## Haley (Jul 22, 2009)

Peg, Im so sorry you had to go through all this but, as always, Im impressed by your poise during a difficult situation. You handled this very well and it looks like things will work out ok. I was just posting how in difficult times you always remember how awesome this forum is. The support and help we can get from one another and give to eachother is priceless.

Keep us posted. I'll be keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.

Haley


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## LuvaBun (Jul 22, 2009)

I just want to say how much I agree with what everyone else here has posted.

I not only think that it was a waste of the inspectors time/resources, but, if the worst had really happened, all of your poor bunnies could have ended up anywhere. And that is *definitely *not the best for them, so the person responsible sould take a long, hard think over that ssd:

Well done for handling it so well, Peg, and for the heads up for anyone that has multiple rabbits.

Jan


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## luvthempigs (Jul 22, 2009)

I would never had posted about this but since Peg just did I want to share that I recently went through a very similiar thing. I am not a breeder but I do have a multiple animal household (and all my pets live in the house not in the garage or a shed in the back yard) 

I don't have it in writing and the humane society couldn't tell me who made the complaint but I already _knew_ who did it as soon as I saw the notice on my front door! My soon to be husband's angry, jealous ex-wife called and reported that she was concerned for the numerous animals in my house and that they may not be being cared for properly (which makes me laugh because she could care less about my animals she just wanted to cause problems for us) she has never even been in my house!

I don't want to get into details but let me just say that I would be the last person who would ever abuse an animal. I'm always the one who wants to save them and protect them. I actually felt ill when I read the notice and had to call the humane officer. I had thoughts of possibly losing some or all of my babies which made me feel physically ill. After all was said and done the humane officer didn't feel it was necessary to come back to my house (she could see two of my dogs through the window when she was there and saw that they were in good condition and had rabies tags, dog tags, etc.) However, There is a complaint on record with my name and address on it which I think is totally unfair since the call was bogus.

I can't believe people will stoop so low as to make fake complaints just to cause others sorrow andpain ssd::tears2:


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## whaleyk98 (Jul 22, 2009)

You know, this makes me so angry. It seems that when a person truly is guilty of neglect, no one gives a crap but when a person has nothing but love for their animals and cares for them deeply...people have to call, complain, make false accusations. Ugh. Who do you call to find out what the laws are on the limits of animals allowed and such?

By the way, cudos on how you handled the situation Peg. Im very sorry you had to go through this.


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## NorthernAutumn (Jul 22, 2009)

For pet owners, municipalities are typically form animal bylaws in town/city here in Ontario... Counties for rural areas, I'd assume. These departments take care of zoning as well.

For instance, my portion of the city is zoned for a specific # of pet cats & dogs in my household. No more than that.

I'm not sure how it works in terms of rabbitries/rescues... Obviously, a breeder must meet the bylaws of the district/county in which they are located, but many issues have multiple laws at a number of levels of government.


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## Elf Mommy (Jul 22, 2009)

[align=center]*HUGS, Peg!!!






What an awful thing to go through.  I'm sorry it happened. I'm glad you're viewing it as a way to help others here and even a fresh clean ...power-washed...start. 

My PM box is open any time!
*[/align]


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## TinysMom (Jul 22, 2009)

Thank you everyone for your support - you have no idea how much it means to me. It was very embarrassing to have this happen and it was a hard decision on whether or not to post it....for about 30 seconds.

The fact was though - I felt I needed to get the word out to breeders that are out there. I don't want y'all going through what I went through.


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## Amy27 (Jul 22, 2009)

Peg, I have read this thread several times and I am just at a loss for words. I can't imagine being in your position and how scared you were. But you were strong and got everything taken care of. I really appreciate you posting this. I only have 2 buns but it made me realize that I don't even know how to look up laws like that. How did you find your laws? I am not even sure what I would search for. 

I don't want to get into the person who reported you except that they should be ashamed of themselves. They put your bunny's lives in danger. What an awful person and how selfish. We are here for our bunny's and I know your bunny's are well taken care of. This will make me think twice about the things I post and also the people I trust. This is a really sad situation but YOU made it end with a happy ending. Good job.


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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Jul 22, 2009)

WOW Peg that's Awful that someone did that to you. I'm so glad that everything turned out alright.
I know you love your bunnies and it's not hard to see that in your blog.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Jul 23, 2009)

Oh wow! That would shock me too! 

I'm glad that you are going to be able to keep your rabbits though  And I'm glad the supervisor was so understanding. 

I think that the packet of info you gained from this awful situation is great for others who might need it. I know I will definitely take that into account  

Emily


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## Bo B Bunny (Jul 23, 2009)

I'd like to know what is wrong with people? You love and care for those bunnies and your dogs and I can't imagine someone turning you in! There are so many people who don't care like that and someone thinks you need checked out??? 

I'm sorry, but I'm totally ..... I can't say the word on here...... I'll say livid.

Peg, I am so sorry that this happened to you. I am glad that it will be a blessing in disguise tho.... now you can actually be a source to help the Animal Control with rabbit situations, as you've mentioned. 

The love and care of animals won out over the negativity yet again! KARMA! 

On a personal belief, I think we sometimes have to fight that negative force to get through sometimes. I also believe that it will give you more strength and ability to help being justified and all through the officials.


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## Flashy (Jul 23, 2009)

I do just want to say that it's not just breeders who are vulnerable to this, it is anyone who gets on the wrong side of such a sad person (especially those with multi animal-rabbit households-of which breeders are of course one).

This can happen to anyone and whilst it may be sorted in a different way, the person who did this could strike again.

On the other forum I'm on it seems to strike regular owners, or those who rescue a lot. 

It's not just breeders, it is all of us who need to be aware and are vulnerable.


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## BlueGiants (Jul 23, 2009)

Oh MY! Peg, I've just read this through and I'm sick to my stomach over what you went through. I watched what my neighbor went through with the local Animal Control people and her chickens... she had over 200 complaints against her in 20 months. between AC, Police, Code Enforcement and the EPA... and they never found a problem with how she was keeping them... the ACO an the Police finally refused to come back out... they knew it was a vendetta issue... but our laws require them to invesigate EVERY complaint regardless of past findings. (The Police were great about advising her how to file harassment charges against the person doing it!)

A lot of breeders do guard their words or refuse to interact with anyone outside their circle. It's reallytough... a fine line we walk... some people just don't like the idea that we do breed... and that is enough to raise their ire... I appreciate how different this forum is. And I remember when it wasn't so accepting... but it's the rabbits that benefit when we all work together.

I sincerely thank you for posting this ordeal. And now that you have "friends in high places" you are a resource for them too!

:hug: :hug:


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## sheandg (Jul 23, 2009)

I am so sorry you had to go thru this but so glad it is a positive outcome. I hope everything works out well and all your buns get to stay with you. 

It is so sad when a person goes out of their way to inflict hurt and pain on someone let alone someone who doesn't deserve it. I truly believe in Karma and I'm sure the person responsible will get "theirs".




thank you for all the info. 

I know many breeders are cautious about letting people into their rabbitrys and many don't anymore. I just have a few rabbits and are very well cleaned after and taken care of but I have one that loves to knock his water crock over sometimes and spill out all his water and if someone came in and saw he had no water at that point could call it neglect.......so sad. 



I know animal abuse is real and I hope the officers are able to spend more time getting the "real" situations taken care of than wasting time following up on bogus complaints


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## Happi Bun (Jul 23, 2009)

I'm so sorry, Peg. Big hugs to you! :hug2:

I cannot believe someone on here would do such a thing, that's very scary. I'm glad to hear they wont be taking your bun's away. That would be such an awful situation for everyone involved, especially the rabbit's! Whoever has this vendetta towards you really needs to take a long hard look at their actions.


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## TinysMom (Jul 23, 2009)

*Happi Bun wrote: *


> I cannot believe someone on here would do such a thing, that's very scary.


I think that was what hurt the most....that someone from HERE would do this to me.

But there was information that the officers shared and were looking for that I'd only shared on the forum.

It really hurts a lot to think that someone from the forum would do this to me...would risk me losing all my rabbits. 

Oh well....at least it is working out for the best.....


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## TinysMom (Jul 23, 2009)

I forgot to say this - but a big THANK YOU to all the people who have flooded my pm box with notes of support and words of comfort.

I promise you I will get back to every PM sent once the stress goes down a bit. 

I think I slept 14 hours since last night - because I'd lost so much sleep over this....


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## anneq (Jul 24, 2009)

"I think I slept 14 hours since last night - because I'd lost so much sleep over this...."




:cry2 I'm so sorry again that something like this had to happen to you, Peg. You obviously love and care for your bunnies...I cannot imagine how I would be feeling if I would've been in your place (terribly scared and thinking I had wandered into some horrible nightmare).

I'm a true believer in 'what comes around goes around'.

I'm going to stop posting now...getting too worked up about it.


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## luvthempigs (Jul 24, 2009)

In my opinion no one could stoop lower than to do this to any one of us.

Low blow if you ask me ssd:

Not to mention wasting time and taking away from theanimals who are truely in need of being rescued. Instead humane officers are being sent out to homes where animals/pets are loved and cared for.


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## murph72 (Jul 24, 2009)

Wow...I just read through all of this. I hadn't been in the Rabbitry area for a few days because I was (unfortunately) preoccupied in the infirmary section with an injured bun. I'm SOO sorry this has happened to you. How shocking. I can't even imagine how horrible and scary that would be to think you might have to give up your bunnies. To me they are my "furry children" and they mean the world to me. 

I think these officers see alot of these kinds of complaints, unfortunately. My sister came home to an officer at her house looking at her horses. She was, of course, immediately afraid of something horrible. The officer actually laughed when he said someone filed a complaint against her, but obviously from looking at the condition of the horses someone was trying to get back at her. It wasn't hard to figure out in her situation that it was her husband's ex-wife. It's just a shame that people like that are wasting the officers' time with their petty vendettas.


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## TinysMom (Jul 26, 2009)

Just a quick update...

Art just powerwashed the floor and some of the walls - then he took the buffer to the floor. I can "almost" see my reflection in it I think. WOW.

Fortunately - as we put girls on the floor - we didn't throw out their cages...so they're learning the joy of caged living again. Some of them seem to enjoy it - others are antsy to get out and play.

We bought a big dog kennel/run type thing last week - so when it is cool out - I can let them go out there to play for limited times....that makes me feel better. Plus the boys can get play time too.

We're figuring out how to restack the cages so they'll all fit...I think we've figured it out. YEAH!

Yesterday we visited a breeder who made his own cages and was willing to let us see them (and we even got some pics). In many ways they're a lot like Polly's set up - except he has flemish giants (Polly - I'm guessing a Netherland doesn't need a 4' X 6' cage...right?).

Of course the plus side I was able to see flemish giants (and his two continental giants) and come home with ideas to show the animal control supervisor of what our plans are.

Art even talked me into a separate bunny barn once we can afford it (hopefully in a year or so).

I'm so excited....the rabbitry is looking so much nicer.

By the way - I know people will ask.

No - I will not take pictures of my set-up to show everyone. Once I get cleared by animal control and certified as a breeder - that is enough for me. But I'm just not comfortable any more sharing stuff like that on the forum.

I trust y'all....but I can't trust everyone!


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## polly (Jul 26, 2009)

4by6 would be a bit excessive lol they really dont need that much space. Ours are just over 2x2 and they have more than enough space in that to stretch out and hop around 
x


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## paul2641 (Jul 26, 2009)

I hope some day TinysMom you will feel comfortable posting pictures again.


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## Boz (Jul 26, 2009)

This is horrible someone would do this to you!  I'm so sorry you had to go through it! I'd glad it worked out though. That would have been awful! If you never need to talk my PM is always open as well.


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## anneq (Jul 26, 2009)

Peg - that would be great to have a separate bunny barn! 
Sounds like Art is really having fun with that blaster - is that the one they show on TV?
I'm glad to hear everything is coming along nicely.

Your reluctance to post pics is completely understandable. I know if I had gone through what you have these last few days, I would probably decide the same course.


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## irishbunny (Jul 26, 2009)

I hope this will be all over soon and you feel more comfortable posting pictures and sharing with us again soon, I love to read and see your bunnies pictures in your blog!


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## fuzz16 (Jul 26, 2009)

ive been keeping up with this but not known what to say really. a heartfelt im sorry for what your going through and also i know what its like-sorta.

i had animal control called on me a couple days ago cause i had my boys running around on the patio. it was dark, they had a shelter, and water and food. and i was in the living room with the screen door closed. i guess the complaint was about thier size and that they looked dangerous and that certain person didnt think that it was safe to have rabbits that big...i was pretty upset. im sure its the same person callin animal control for my dog barking-from inside or on the patio. i hate people sometimes.

so i kinda knojw the stress and how upsetting this can be. but upside for you is that you got lucky  and can keep all your bunnies


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## TinysMom (Jul 26, 2009)

I wish y'all could see the rabbitry so far. WOO HOO.

Art powerwashed and then used a buffer on the floor. I can't see myself in it...but its close.

Robin powerwashed a bunch of cages (I helped move all the animals around and did a lot of walking - I get to put them back in a few minutes).

I'm about to do the woodypet and put tiles (powerwashed) in the cages. 

The neat thing is- we saved all the cages so the girls will get playtime on the porch sometimes but also have cages of their own. PLUS - the Calis are moving into the rabbitry - and I can have an OFFICE again.

The animal control supervisor stated that he didn't care about HOW MANY rabbits I had...just he wanted the rabbitry to pass inspection.

I'm sure it should pass once we're done.


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## murph72 (Jul 26, 2009)

Peg,

What did they say were the conditions that you had to have to meet inspections? I'm just wondering how picky they are being as it sounds like you're going to have that place clinically clean. That's nice and all, but not real realistic if that is what their expectations are. It's not like you can put diapers on the buns. 

I'm thinking of my own rabbitry and thinking my one rabbit, Reuben, just shedded his entire self over the past two months. His cage looked like a fuzzy bomb went off. Other than powerwashing, I'm at a loss how to get all that darn hair off the walls.  I'd like to wait until he's donelosing all his hair to spend too much time cleaning it. Luckily I live in the middle of nowhere and I'm pretty sure my animals are living 100% better than many of my neighbors'.


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## Starlight Rabbitry (Jul 27, 2009)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> I'm so excited....the rabbitry is looking so much nicer.
> 
> By the way - I know people will ask.
> 
> ...



Sorry for all you are going through Peg. Maybe this was a blessing in disguise. You are now getting the rabbitry looking much nicer and maybe this will lead to something better  No one should have to go through this.

For this reason, I have never put pictures of my rabbitry on the web. I fear that someone will not "agree" with something and I will have issues. I do, however, showmy friends somepictures. Ever since reading about other peoples' issues and dealings, I have been much more guarded. 

It is sad that this is what it comes down to. I would love to people to see my rabbitry and my setup. I am very proud of my rabbits and my cleaning ritual. I would love to be able to show that off.

*hugs* 

Sharon


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## TinysMom (Jul 28, 2009)

*Starlight Rabbitry wrote: *


> *TinysMom wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I'm so excited....the rabbitry is looking so much nicer.
> ...



Sharon - this really was a blessing in disguise...it truly was. 

I've had several private pms about what they're looking for in my rabbitry and what was wrong, etc.....so I'm gonna be open and honest here...not that I'm overly proud...but sometimes you have to see something through someone else's eyes to see that you've been wrapped up in other stuff and let some things go.

As many of you may know - I had a number of does living loose on the floor. I let them live this way in sort of a "warren" - and to be honest with you - they loved it. We had several of them going through false pregnancies and I'd been throwing down lots of hay on the floor for them - they'd go under one of the shelves and make a nest - or they'd go into one of the empty cages in the bottom of the rabbitry. Basically - my girls had three large dog kennels to play in - plus 10 open cages plus an 8' long shelf a foot off the floor that they could lay under and be in like a "cave".

They loved the setup - and we were sweeping it daily - but I didn't mop it in a week or so because I didn't want the hay to get moldy and I wanted them to get the nesting out of their system. (Even some of my bucks were nesting in their cages).

In addition - if you can consider 50 or so lionheads molting within a month or two period - it tends to build up on the cages if you're not looking. Trust me - I wasn't looking...

And finally - I'd run of out woody pet a bit ago and not had a chance to get out to get some.

So while they place didn't smell as bad as it could've before when I had rabbits in the garage and it would get warm...it didn't smell "fresh" and it looked really bad with the hay all over the floor.

......

What we have been doing - is powerwashing cages and the floor and walls. Right now - two sides are done - plus the Calis' cage is done. 

Tomorrow we're pulling cages out of the garage to power wash them - that way - the girls will have cages in the rabbitry. 

I really don't forsee us having any problems passing an inspection when we're done. It's not "military clean" - but it is pretty darn good. 

I do plan to meet with the animal control supervisor to speak about our future plans. Going through this has made Art & I think about what we really want...and well...sorry. Can't share here...except to say that we're going to invest in a nice bunny barn when we get his inheritance from his mom's estate (hopefully next spring). 

We went and visited a breeder last Saturday and got to see how he made his cages. WOW...they reminded me a lot of Polly's setup...and Art is already designing the cages he'll be building for us. The one thing we didn't like was that the man had cabinet style doors - we're going to do drop down doors out of wood that have a section cut out with mesh so they can get more light in. (His did have mesh in them). I may even have mesh where there isn't a door too...I need to study the photo(s) that Art took with his cell phone (duh...I forgot to bring a camera).

The hardest part about all this is that the girls lost out on having a warren. They have to be caged. I am hoping that when it cools down - I can buy a big dog run and let them live outside with a covering over the dog run....at least for a while. 

A lot of that is what we're talking about and planning for. When we build our bunny barn its going to have to be able to be powerwashed on the inside (tile or linoleum flooring) - plus a special type of paint probably....plus I want to have access for rabbits to have "bunny runs" outside...like two large kennels - one for boys and one for girls. 

I'll figure it out eventually. 

I guess my biggest recommendations for those who PM'd me is to watch that fur when they molt (lionheads are horrible for that and you can get used to seeing it and not realizing just how bad it is)....and make sure to keep any urine odor down....I know in the summer it can get bad pretty quickly if you run out of woody pet or whatever. Also - we used tiles in our wire cages - to give them something to sit on....we're powerwashing those....so they look better.

I hope this helps!


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## SilverBirchRabbitry (Jul 28, 2009)

I'm sorry to hear about everything Peg, some of the people on here are quite pathetic. It is pretty bad someone on here would have the nerve to do it :/ Especially when they know for a fact that you take amazing care of your rabbits.

P.S That REW buck I had went to a pet home, I decided to stick with my French Angoras, seeing as that is all I'm good at showing/judging/breeding.


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## myLoki (Jul 28, 2009)

I know what you mean about the hair Peg. Lily is shedding something awful! Hair is everywhere despite my plucking her daily!:shock:


t.


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## TinysMom (Jul 28, 2009)

*myLoki wrote: *


> I know what you mean about the hair Peg. Lily is shedding something awful! Hair is everywhere despite my plucking her daily!:shock:
> 
> 
> t.


Oh my....and she's such a teddy bear to begin with.

Art did offer to shave all my bunnies for me....but I didn't think the animal control folks would be impressed by naked bunnies (and I knew he was joking).

But yeah - imagine 50 rabbits shedding like that.

Oh - I forgot to add...when I talked to the supervisor - I explained that life had been very hectic lately - between going home to deal with my mom - getting ill when I got back - working long hours during reset season - Art having to fly home to be with his mom before she passed...and that's how things got away from us. Before we knew it - the hot weather had set in....and the rabbits really shouldn't go outside (even while cleaning cages) as they could get heatstroke since they're in an air conditioned room...


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## werecatrising (Jul 28, 2009)

I'm sorry you had to go through this. I had a person complain to animal control about my number of rabbits once. Nothing came of it because a) the officer realized this complaint came from the person who I failed a complaint against- for dumping dying cats in my yard and b) I am the first person they call when they get a rabbit in.

Not everybody who has a lot of rabbits breeds. I don't. So, we don't all have pedigrees, ribbons etc. It is a good idea to keep proof of vet care, spays, neuters, etc. I have a file on all of my feral cats as well.


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## myLoki (Jul 28, 2009)

> Oh my....and she's such a teddy bear to begin with.



She really is a fluffy bunny. She kept all her teddy bear style mane. My dad's nickname for her is "Foofball". 

Dad-"The Foofball is staring at me again..." 
Me- "No she's not, Dad. She's probably sleeping." 
Dad-"No. She's definitely staring. I think she's trying to communicate something."
Me-"Yeah she's probably saying "Briiiiiiing meeeeee a CRAAAAAAAAISIN!"
Then we all laugh. Variations of this conversation have happened so many times.

Do you have problems with your air conditioning when the bunnies are shedding? I don't know how to keep the hair fluffs lower than I already am. My mom is getting fed up with rabbit hair on her stuff, but when they're shedding its no stopping it. Any suggestions? I already pluck them daily.


t.


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## CKGS (Jul 28, 2009)

Jacklynn, I am glad to see you here again.


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## TinysMom (Jul 28, 2009)

I've been going back and forth on doing this...I'll probably kick myself in the morning...but oh well.

One of the major things this did for me - was to make me get off the fence and make a decision I had been debating on and talking about for over 2 months. Actually - I'd been thinking about it for probably 6 months or more.

You see - I found I was really missing breeding. I didn't want to breed a lot...and I wasn't ready to breed again yet. But..I missed it. Others who knew me well had told me I would miss it...but I was like, "No way".

Ha ha.

When I spoke to the animal control supervisor - and we discussed my rabbits & breeding, etc - he said something that really struck me. He said, "I don't care how many rabbits you have as long as they're in the right size cages. What I care about is the condition right now with the hay and the hair....". 

I had explained that I hadn't been breeding for a while but was thinking of getting back into it later this year....and that was why he said that.

I had just turned in my resignation for one job I have as a merchandiser..so I could spend more time at home with the rabbits. While I made decent money (and had just gotten a raise) - I found I was spending almost as much when I was working - as I was making. I had searched my heart and realized that the one job I have that I love - makes almost the amount of money I wanted to bring in on a monthly basis...so it meant I could spend more time letting the boys have run time and cuddle time and stuff like that.

Anyway - in a way this was a good thing...because it made me make a decision - the decision that I do want to get into breeding again.

Not this week....not this month....not even in the next couple of months. I don't have the space right now for a litter and I think that once September gets here and it cools down - I will work on rehoming a few more of the lionhead bucks. I'm working on getting my numbers down.

But I am going to breed again....and Art & I are already dreaming about our own bunny barn and how to set it up & how I'm going to work things.

So in a way - this was a horrible thing - but it made me get off my rear and make a decision I'd been going on and on about for months.


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## TinysMom (Jul 28, 2009)

*SilverBirchRabbitry wrote: *


> P.S That REW buck I had went to a pet home, I decided to stick with my French Angoras, seeing as that is all I'm good at showing/judging/breeding.


That's probably a good idea. He was a cutie...just not show/breed quality.

I know when I got started in lionheads - I got a couple of mentors and that helped.

Of course...last week when I talked to Gail Gibbons and she said, "You got overwhelmed cause you didn't listen to me....right? Will you listen to me THIS time??" - it was hard...but it was good.

It reminded me that others with more experience actually know MORE than I do..and I can still learn.


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## murph72 (Jul 28, 2009)

Peg,

I too have a rabbit that is living without a cage. She was that way before I started my rabbitry and I don't have the heart to cage her. She now shares her space with some bunnies that are caged, but she runs the floor and is potty trained. There is also loose hay in there, but it is where I keep my hay bale that I'm currently using. She just goes up to it and helps herself when she wants some. Even with my new building I've decided I'm letting her stay where she is at. This floor is wood and is good on her feet, whereas the next one will be concrete and too rough for her. She's lived there so long I just don't have the heart to mess with it. She'll just go back to having the place to herself...which I'm quite certain she's going to love. 

I hope your girls adjust OK to caged life. I know Punkin would ruin her teeth by trying to get out.


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## TinysMom (Jul 29, 2009)

We are now at the point where we sit and wait...and wait...and wait for them to show up. 

I'm very pleased with the rabbitry.


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## TinysMom (Jul 29, 2009)

[align=center]GOOD NEWS...

 and

 bad news...


 GOOD NEWS FIRST...

 The rabbitry itself passed inspection - although they are going to reinspect it next week (and we'll be making a couple of changes).

 THE BAD NEWS...

 They're coming back next week to inspect the garage and the outside since we have old cages in the garage (that need to be cleaned) and we had bags of "poo" outside waiting for a dump run. 

 More details later...
[/align]


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## paul2641 (Jul 29, 2009)

How many bunnies do you have?


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## TinysMom (Jul 29, 2009)

*paul2641 wrote: *


> How many bunnies do you have?


Why Paul....that's like asking a woman her dress size or how old she is....

:biggrin2:

Let me put it this way....At one time I think I had around 200. I'm way way way way way way way (did I mention way) down from that number....

I've been in the double digits for a *long* while....and heading downward - plus this fall I will be continuing to rehome bucks.


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## paul2641 (Jul 29, 2009)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> > How many bunnies do you have?
> ...


Pardon my rudeness thankfully your going to a more manageable number of bunnies! How do you keep up on the cleaning, Would you clean them all on a weekly basis or what?


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## CKGS (Jul 29, 2009)

I imagine it has to be hard but if you love the buns like Peg does, you manage. 
I think if I had less kids I could manage quite a bit more buns. It's kids that are the hard ones. Lol.


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## CKGS (Jul 29, 2009)

Plus I've heard that she's giving me Zeus. :dancingorig: And that will open up alot of room. Lol.


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## BlueGiants (Jul 29, 2009)

CKGS wrote:


> Plus I've heard that she's giving me Zeus. :dancingorig: And that will open up alot of room. Lol.



:shock: REALLY?


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## CKGS (Jul 29, 2009)

No.... Like she would ever do that. LOL. She wants that big beautiful boy all to herself. Who can blame her?


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## TinysMom (Jul 29, 2009)

Paul - one of the major reasons I don't post my numbers (and I have been asked more than once) is that as soon as you say, "I have X bunnies" - you are now a target for anyone who thinks that anything over X is hoarding.

For instance - let's say that I had 12 bunnies - but someone else thinks that anything over 10 is hoarding...while others have 20 or so. 

I have three people here (total) that work together on feeding rabbits, grooming rabbits, watering rabbits and cleaning cages.

Right now we've been having temps of around 105 degrees quite a bit...which means we've been unable to open the windows that ventilate the rabbitry because they need the a/c running and it would get too hot.

They made a suggestion of a type of product that we could use in cleaning (we'd mainly been using bleach and vanodine to disinfect) - so we just went out to Home Depot and got two products - one for odor and one for disinfecting.

And Paul - I was not offended - which was why I posted the smiling smiley...I was trying to be lighthearted about it.


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## TinysMom (Jul 29, 2009)

*CKGS wrote: *


> Plus I've heard that she's giving me Zeus. :dancingorig: And that will open up alot of room. Lol.



:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

I love your TWISTED sense of humor.... :biggrin2:

Bless his heart - Zeus is even learning he has to share me with Art...so he's making nice with Art too...


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## tonyshuman (Jul 29, 2009)

How terrible that someone would do that to you, especially someone from this forum. You're a wonderful asset to this forum and you help a lot of people here, so I can't imagine why someone would dislike you. I'm glad things are turning out ok, though.


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## murph72 (Jul 29, 2009)

Peg,

Do you mind telling us what products they suggested you buy? I'm also used to using vanodine and bleach as needed.

Thank


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## luvthempigs (Jul 29, 2009)

Just curious,Are there cage size or type requirements? Or are they more concerned with cleanliness?


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## whaleyk98 (Jul 29, 2009)

*murph72 wrote: *


> Peg,
> 
> Do you mind telling us what products they suggested you buy? I'm also used to using vanodine and bleach as needed.
> 
> Thank


Ditto :biggrin2:


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## pamnock (Jul 29, 2009)

*paul2641 wrote: *


> Pardon my rudeness thankfully your going to a more manageable number of bunnies! How do you keep up on the cleaning, Would you clean them all on a weekly basis or what?



When we had 200+ bunns, everything was sparkling clean. Cage pans were cleaned every three days (I did 1/3 of the cages every day). Everything canbe well kept and maintained if you are organized and stay on schedule with chores. 

We are now down to about 80 rabbits, which is certainly more easier than 200+ 

Below are photos of one of my old barns. My set-up now is similar, but the walls aren't finished yet We bought 3 old houses, so those renovations have taken priority, but I'd sure like to get my primo rabbitry back. The old one was so nice that the new owners converted it into an apartment.

Pam



Here's one of my barns when I lived in Ohio . . .







Before the watering system:


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## CKGS (Jul 29, 2009)

Wow Pam, that looks really, really nice! I would love to live in there... with or without the buns... Lol.


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## TinysMom (Jul 29, 2009)

They suggested a produce called "Cher-I-Zyme" or something like that - from a company called Aero-Magnolia. 

I looked it up - for 7 gallons (minimum order) it is $14.99 per gallon.

We went to Office Depot and bought two other products to try - for about $27.


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## LionsRawr (Jul 29, 2009)

Its really something for everyone to remember. If someone on a forum decides that you have too many animals to take care of, with some research they can have animal control at your door. As you well know. 

I am so sorry this happened to you. I had a friend on a dog forum who had the same thing happen to her. Animal control came out and were more than happy with how she kept her dogs. 

Some people just like to nit pick and cause very personal drama. 

I hope you can still feel comfortable on forums after this. I know it would disturb me.


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## TinysMom (Jul 29, 2009)

Pam - that is the exact building we're looking at getting with Art's inheritance in a few months...may I ask what size it was?

Will I feel comfortable on this forum? I'm still deciding....

I'm bursting with stuff I WANT to share...but can't bring myself to share yet.

We're talking about getting a 12' X 24' bunny barn - with double doors at the entrance.


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## paul2641 (Jul 30, 2009)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> Paul - one of the major reasons I don't post my numbers (and I have been asked more than once) is that as soon as you say, "I have X bunnies" - you are now a target for anyone who thinks that anything over X is hoarding.
> 
> For instance - let's say that I had 12 bunnies - but someone else thinks that anything over 10 is hoarding...while others have 20 or so.
> 
> ...


Really it is nothing more then me being nosy! Personally I don't think you should be classed a hoarder if you are keeping on top of all the chores and work that goes with larger amounts of bunnies, And if there getting fresh hay water and pellets everyday. I can't even last 15 degree's Celsius let alone 105 Fahrenheit. I use a really strongly lemon scented disinfectant to clean my cages lol!

Thanks for understanding.


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## paul2641 (Jul 30, 2009)

*pamnock wrote: *


> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Pardon my rudeness thankfully your going to a more manageable number of bunnies! How do you keep up on the cleaning, Would you clean them all on a weekly basis or what?
> ...


God darn that is impeccable Your rabbitry is amazing your buns are so well looked after, I never even new breeders took such good care of there bunnies And such a large number, I hope if I ever get into large scale breeding to run a system like that. All the best in the future pamnock with your rabbitry. What breeds you specialize in?


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## pamnock (Jul 30, 2009)

Peg, it was either 12 x 24 or 12 x 22.


Paul, we've had many breeds over the years and currently have a number of breeds still in the barn. The only breed that my youngest son is currently actively showing and breedingis the Dwarf Hotots.


Pam


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## paul2641 (Jul 30, 2009)

*pamnock wrote: *


> Peg, it was either 12 x 24 or 12 x 22.
> 
> 
> Paul, we've had many breeds over the years and currently have a number of breeds still in the barn. The only breed that my youngest son is currently actively showing and breedingis the Dwarf Hotots.
> ...


Have you ever bred English angora? I love them.


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## Wabbitdad12 (Jul 30, 2009)

You go girl!


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## pamnock (Jul 30, 2009)

*paul2641 wrote: *


> Have you ever bred English angora? I love them.



I took care of and sheared another breeder's angoras, and I've had a few of my own, but never bred them. Wool is a lot of work!

Pam


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## SweetSassy (Jul 30, 2009)

I just read your whole thread and I'm so sorry someone turned you in. That is just terrible!! All the stress you've been under. I can't imagine.


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## paul2641 (Jul 30, 2009)

*pamnock wrote: *


> *paul2641 wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Have you ever bred English angora? I love them.
> ...


Oh cool, Unfortunately we don't have them in Ireland! Very limited on breed selections here lol!


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## polly (Jul 30, 2009)

Pam it was really nice to see your barn and rabbits  
I am getting well jealous of your barns I wish we had barns like that over here


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## pamnock (Jul 30, 2009)

*polly wrote: *


> Pam it was really nice to see your barn and rabbits
> I am getting well jealous of your barns I wish we had barns like that over here



Thanks Polly. Your set-up is very nice also! 

Pam


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## polly (Jul 30, 2009)

*pamnock wrote: *


> *polly wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Pam it was really nice to see your barn and rabbits
> ...


Thankyou. That means a lot coming from you. I bet you have seen a lot of set ups


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## werecatrising (Jul 31, 2009)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> [align=center]GOOD NEWS...
> 
> and
> 
> ...


I am confused as to why they should be worried about cages in your garage and garbage in your yard.


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## TinysMom (Jul 31, 2009)

They feel it is a health hazard (it was some contractor trash bags of poop Art was going to take to the dump) plus the cages in the garage still had some hair on them, etc. 

I think a large part of their concern is that the rabbitry is in the house (right off my living room) and not in a separate building.


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