# Cats vs Outdoor Free Range Rabbit



## Nela (Oct 29, 2010)

Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone could offer any suggestions... I was thinking of making Maybelle a free range rabbit. That is, she could roam the yard freely at all times. It is fully enclosed so that would be okay. However, we do have lots of cats in the neighborhood. I was wondering if we could make it work somehow...

I'm guessing multiple hiding spots and maybe some cat fencing would be required. Does anyone have any experience with cat fencing? Is there any way this could work you think?


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## jcottonl02 (Oct 29, 2010)

I personally would never let my bun roam outside freely without vigilent supervision and being a few feet behind him/her at every stage, which is not very practical if you want to give a few hours exercise outside.

Firstly you have the problem birds; I personally live where there are multiple bird-of-prey species such as the Red Kite which could quite happily pick off one of my buns. I have seen them circling the garden a few times when ben and pip have been in their run (which is completely bird proof for sure but it still makes me uneasy).

Then you have the problem of any predators that can squeeze through fence gaps or dig underneath the fence, OR if your bun decides to dig out.

If you wanted to cat-proof your garden, however, there are cat fencing you can buy different kinds, but I don't really buy it....I don't know. I can see how they might be able to keep your cats in, but how does it keep them out?
Also is is 100%? I don't know...

http://www.katzecure.com/gallery.php?type=single

http://www.beestonfencingcompany.co.uk/catprooffencing.htm

Jen


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## akane (Oct 29, 2010)

We had guinea pigs and rabbits roaming our fenced yard growing up. It was fun to see their natural behaviors and the little train of guinea pigs as they ran about in single file. They seem to inevitably die. Someone forgets to shut a gate, some of the fence comes loose, the neighbors large dogs break down the gate... etc... Death eventually happens. When we moved out of town I just converted a 12x12 stall or 2 for the guinea pigs during the summer and right now I have my rabbits in a 12x24' stall. The guinea pigs did have to come in every winter though unlike the rabbits.

When I moved here this was my compromise for loose but safely contained guinea pigs.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v244/aqh88/guinea%20pigs/outdoor%20pen/?start=20

I've never lost a guinea pig or rabbit to cats. They don't seem interested in something that big but we lost so many to dogs and neighborhood children.


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## Suz (Oct 29, 2010)

My worry would be the top part being open I think. Not sure how big your yard is, but could you get like a 6X10 dog kennel or something with a top on it? That way you would not have to worry so much. 

Sounds like a neat idea though. Wish I could do it, however we had a hawk move into our pine trees directly above Muppet's hutch and I hear owls all night long. And we now have a raccoon coming to visit in the middle of the night. Luckily my dog lets out this menacing growl and launches herself at the window when she sees it, so it leaves swiftly!


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## GorbyJobRabbits (Oct 29, 2010)

Don't forget rabbits dig under fences. And after some time I don't see him being much of a pet anymore.


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## molly (Oct 30, 2010)

I don't know if raccoons are an issue where you live, but I have heard horror stories of raccoons killing pet rabbits. (I have seen them attack and kill cats as well.) I have a friend that lets her bunnies out in her yard for hours at a time while she keeps an eye out (not full supervision) and her buns were fine this past summer, but I would never feel confident doing that with my buns.

Birds, cats, dogs, coyotes, foxes, raccoons, and possibly skunks to name a few can pose serious hazards for buns. (And I live in a big city!) Not to mention the buns themselves that sometimes dig their way out of yards and can meet up with any of those predators or a car or get lost. I think figuring out a way to have a protected run is the best way to go.


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## jujub793 (Oct 30, 2010)

doesn't sound like a good plan to me. too many potential dangers


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## Nela (Oct 31, 2010)

The only danger I could really think ofhere would be the cats. We have hedgehogs as well but that's not a threat. The whole yard is pave so nowhere to dig. The fence is also a full fence so nothing easy for a dog to get through if there was ever a dog on the loose. No raccoons, no skunks, etc.


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## Nela (Nov 1, 2010)

I was looking at the Rabbitat and theirs isn't covered so I was trying to see how it works for them. Any ideas? :?


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## jcottonl02 (Nov 1, 2010)

It's really up to you but I still wouldn't be able to get over the fact that it will be open-top. 

The actual set up of the garden sounds good though- hard floor and a sturdy fence. Perhaps to try and combat the idea of birds (which, while they aren't a huge risk, there is still risk there that would be too great for me to relax i think), put lots of secure (heavy and attached to the ground) hidey holes and maybe some secure tunnels. Your bun will DEFINATELY need a lot of safe places to hide away, if not for protection but just to allow natural behaviours that will stop the bun from getting too stressed being in the open all the time, being a prey animal. 

Is there any way you can put some kind of sturdy wire over the top of the garden from fence to fence, so it's still open but protected?
Sort of making the whole garden into a sturdy run, with maybe a door you could access?

Jen


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## JadeIcing (Nov 1, 2010)

I would look into what sort of birds of pray are in the area.


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## Nela (Nov 1, 2010)

Mm I will have to do some research before anything for sure Thanks for the feedback


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## Suz (Nov 1, 2010)

I know a lot of people around here that have vegetable gardens or new sod laid will put up string across a certain area and tie shiny strips (like tinsel) to the strings to deter the birds.They just criss cross them everwhere across the top of the fence line so the birds can't land. Maybe you could do that over the top so there is no way a bird of prey could get in the yard. Not sure if you want to look at something like that every day in your yard though


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## Nela (Nov 2, 2010)

Oooh yeah I have seen those around here. That is an idea. That's definitely something we could add I think. I'm trying to think of the kinds of shelters and strategic postioning as well. Thanks for that suggestion. I will keep them in mind!


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## Nela (Nov 2, 2010)

Okay, for some reason I wasn't seeing all the posts. I'm just saying the things we had thought of so someone can build up on it if they want. Of course, me saying we thought of doing this or that doesn't mean I'm just going to grab her and put her out. We are researching now for the spring. I had thought of doing it before and then when I saw the rabbitat I considered it even more. Maybelle much prefers the outdoors as she was born outdoors. She's a good feisty 8lb rabbit, not a tiny one though I know that doesn't shield her from everything. I've been considering it because I think she would be happier and it would definitely help with my allergies as well.

Jen, thanks so much for that link. I had seen the cat fencing with the wire but we felt it would make the yard look like a prison. The double pole on the other hand... Now that is a neat idea! The look doesn't bother me and I don't think it would bother Jeff either. Still not sure why they just wouldn't jump over it though... Lol. But that is still an ideawe will definitely look into. Doesn't mean it works, but at least it is a lead. Jeff and I still don''t quite understand how it could work really.

The yard is definitely not that big. A run would be quite difficult was we have height but not much to offer in width if we want to keep using the yard ourselves as well. I had been planning on building brick borders/containers for the plants and things and had thought of putting those big cement tubes at the bottom to offer her some extra cover and somewhat more natural burrowing oppurtunities. It's very hard to explain lol. 

The yard gate cannot be opened from outside the yard and it will be locked. We really don't have much wildlife here at all. Just a bit away are all the fields so birds of prey mainly hang out there and stay away from residential areas. We definitely have hedgehogs, frogs, ducks, geese, and swans around. We also have blue herons. I was concerned about those but they don't eat rabbits from what I have learned. The others I was concerned about are the magpies. Still have to look into those as there is different information about them. I think her having proper and numerous shelters could make the difference though. Like I said, still researching. 

As for not being a pet much anymore... It would probably be the opposite actually. My rabbits are housed outside in a shed and with my severe allergies it's been very difficult for me to stay more than 5-10 mins. With her being the biggest and smelliest, it may just help to have her out of the shed. Plus, she'd definitely be much happier than being cooped up in the hutch. 

Molly, I am originally from Montreal. I definitely would never consider doing it there. Lol. You are right about the raccoons and skunks. We don't have them here though. We don't have squirrels either Lol that is one thing i miss about Montreal. However, we do have a duck and water hen in the water in front of the hosue 

Definitely won't be covering the entire yard. Our yard shares a fence with the neighbors and I don't think they'd appreciate the look. It would most likely be against city regulations as well.

We will keep thinking. Like I said, we're just researching for now. I would love to give her the yard if possible so I really will try but if it's not worth it then it's just not worth it. 

Thank you so much everyone for the comments!


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## jcottonl02 (Nov 2, 2010)

Yeah I know exactly what you mean Nela!!! I had a look at it for keeping the cats IN the garden (our garden is pretty huge with plenty of bushes and loads of places to run hide and play) after what happened to Lottie around Bonfire night...broken tail NOT done by a car apparently, and suspiciously around bonfire night. But I'm glad we decided against it because they love going over the farm opposite us etc. and it's just me being overprotective. BUt anyway those wire ones are nasty! THey really do make your garden look like a prison. Someone near us has one and I can see it from the house and its just wrong!
But yeah I found the double pole one and it just looks like part of the fence. But I also still can't get my head around how it works. I guess it will probably work keeping cats in the garden...cos they have to scramble up the fence IF it is high, and the poles will just twizzle. But what if you have a short fence? They will just leap over it. And you would have to ask your next door neighbour if you can put the poles on the other side to keep cats out....

Confusing! :/

Jen


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## Nela (Nov 2, 2010)

Yeah Bah to it! Still hoping there is a way. Waiting for a reply from Quan from the Rabbitat. Hopefully that might give me some insight. I feel at a loss really. I understand that cat owners enjoy their cats having freedom but why should my rabbits pay for it?Don't dogs have a natural behavior that is similar as well? Why shouldn't people let their dogs roam free then? Bleh:expressionlessI just want to offer Maybelle more.


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## jcottonl02 (Nov 2, 2010)

It must just be the way cats and dogs have been domesticated over so many many years- there's nothing really we can do about it now. My cats can find their way home, but my dogs can't even walk off the lead without getting lost!!! 
Our first dog though, used to just take himself for a walk over to my gran's house when we lived near hers though. It was so bizarre- he actually knew the way!
It's the way things are though- if my dogs were let to roam loose IF nothing bad happened to them then they would just be picked up by a dog warden or something. Cats don't. Guess it's just the society we live in.
I am glad that my cats spend all their time either in the house, the garden, or literally across the road. All I have to do is go out the house and call them, and 100% of the time they will come bounding over to me from wherever they are, which is just lovely. Because I wouldn't want my cat just...disappearing where I don't know....and me not seeing her for a day or something!

When I go out, perhaps 50% of the time when I come back my cats will be waiting for me by the front door lol. It's so odd!!! Or when they see our car pull up they will run over from the farm to greet us and come in. It's just lovely they love us so much!

Jen


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## Nela (Nov 2, 2010)

Quan has just emailed me back and we are discussing. I'm sure a lot of you would not agree with Quan. Lol. I guess I will just see where this leads and think of my options more


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## jcottonl02 (Nov 2, 2010)

Yeah def can't hurt just to see all your options etc. No harm in asking about anything at all! That's what I say.

Jen


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## Flash Gordon (Nov 2, 2010)

i wouldnt put a animal thats at the bottom of the food chain outside unprotected...if u find a way that works..i would love to hear about it cuz i would like to do the same thing..but ive heard so many horror stories....and i know if somethings hungry their gonna find a way to get their food.....my friend has a little tiny toy dog...and he saw a coyote in his back yard stalking the dog..the coyote was walking along the top of the tall brick fence....on top...is this crazy...i also just rescued a bunny that had his food chewed off by a coyote...it was just a bone ,no meat ...poor thing it was already healed .it happened months before i "TOOK him away" from his owner..so he went thru so much pain im sure...poor guy..the owner said he gets around just fine...idiot..


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