# Max Factor?



## Sabine (Apr 23, 2010)

One of the three kits Pearl gave birth to this morning was born dead. It looked slightly deformed around the face and had one eye open. The baby looked about the same size as the others. Maybe even somewhat bigger. Unfortunately the picture isn't great. Could this have to do with the Max factor as well or is it just an unspecific genetic abnormality?


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## fld20 (Apr 23, 2010)

Looks like one to meI know their usually born with their eyes open & weird feet . Not sure what else as I've never had any.Just read alot about them .


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## mistyjr (Apr 23, 2010)

Scary!! Poor baby! ray:ray:


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## Sabine (Apr 23, 2010)

I only just read about it last night in the previous thread about an "alien" kit. Kind of odd that I end up with one the next morning. I should have really looked more closely at the feet. The one open eye looked really bizarre and it seemed that the mouth wasn't formed properly either.


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## Sabine (Apr 23, 2010)

This is a second picture we took that shows the face


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## mistyjr (Apr 23, 2010)

Yeah! I read the website that Pam have put on there! Poor babies


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## TinysMom (Apr 23, 2010)

It looks like it could be one I think - its sorta hard to see in those pictures. For me - they usually have the weird feet too.

I have had them in lionheads - I don't remember what you're breeding. But I know netherlands were often used to reduce size in the lionheads after they were imported from the UK...which is how they got into my lines.


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## mistyjr (Apr 23, 2010)

I didnt know LionHeads can get it. I thought only the dwarf breeds...


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## Sabine (Apr 23, 2010)

They are Netherland Dwarfs and all from the same breeder. I expect I will see those babies more often then


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## TinysMom (Apr 23, 2010)

*mistyjr wrote: *


> I didnt know LionHeads can get it. I thought only the dwarf breeds...


oh yeah they can get it.

Many lionheads have netherland dwarf in their background (here in the US) because the UK lionheads were brought in and then bred with dwarves to bring their size down.

This is Hyacinth - a direct import from the UK...
















This is Harry - not related to her - but he is two generations into breeding here in the US..
















and this is Harriet - Harry's son (that we thought was a doe for a while)....





















Technically speaking - I suppose you could call them "lionheads"...they have a mane...they are from lionhead lines.

But when you look at where the lionhead is going as a breed - and at the breed standards - these guys are a "joke" amongst serious lionhead breeders. No one who knows anything about what they're doing would breed this type of rabbit anymore and try to sell it as a lionhead - at least not a serious breeder.

What made the difference? 

Breeding in the dwarfing gene from the Netherland dwarves so you can get lionhead rabbits that meet the standard...which is closer to this..











Notice how her ears are smaller (more cat-like) and her head is shaped differently and she is smaller all over - and her mane is gorgeous.

That is what is a "true" lionhead among breeders.

The others are more of a joke now - mule ears, etc.

Doesn't mean they aren't sweet - just means they aren't worth breeding anymore now that the dwarfing gene has been added.

Still yet - people breed them and sell them as 'lionheads'...which as I said - they kinda are - but they really come nowhere close to the standard.


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## mistyjr (Apr 23, 2010)

So, Is mine are true lionheads! I'm kinda confused a little. 

I can tell the difference from the last one. So are you saying that the ones in the first couple photo's. You should not breed... Sorry, Am Confused!

Thanks


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## TinysMom (Apr 23, 2010)

*mistyjr wrote: *


> So, Is mine are true lionheads! I'm kinda confused a little.
> 
> I can tell the difference from the last one. So are you saying that the ones in the first couple photo's. You should not breed... Sorry, Am Confused!
> 
> Thanks



This is my "not-so-humble" personal opinion - based upon my years of breeding lionheads.

The lionhead breed has now developed to the point where there is no "need" to breed those older style lionheads that have the wide faces, mule ears and LONG bodies. 

Even here in Texas - where you can put almost anything on the show table and get it judged - they would be laughed off the table - at least behind the person's back.

The babies they can give probably would not be bought by an experienced lionhead breeder - which leaves only the pet market - and now that lionheads are closer to being recognized (I've thought for over 4 years now that Theresa will be the one to get them through as she has very consistent quality in her rabbits - and she presents this fall) - the image that the public sees in magazines or whatever - is that of the newer style of lionhead that has developed.

Here is a link to the COD holder's red eyed whites. See how they sit differently? They sit up like a cat versus laying on their belly like a pot-bellied pig?

This is the style of lionheads that the public will get used to seeing - and want as pets.

I hope I'm making sense. 

I don't remember what yours look like - but the ones that are like those first three I showed - most breeders will not use anymore because they won't produce the quality of rabbit that can be shown (or sold easily).

Also remember - I'm speaking about my opinion. Opinions are like feet - we all have them - some stink - and at times - they all should probably be kept covered up and hidden....


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## jcottonl02 (Apr 23, 2010)

*TinysMom wrote:*


> Opinions are like feet - we all have them - some stink - and at times - they all should probably be kept covered up and hidden....



That should be your 'signature' at the bottom of your posts hehe.


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## mistyjr (Apr 23, 2010)

Thanks Peg for the helpful answers!!


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