# GI stasis or bloat? But she flopped. What does it mean?



## JeffS (Jan 16, 2010)

Every night I go see the buns, Riley and Pancake, give them each an alfalfa chunk (it's from these compressed logs) and put them to "bed." Tonight I latched the cage (they were already in it) and got the alfalfa out and... Pancake didn't want any.

WHAT?!

She didn't want a pellet either. She kind of just sat there. I've been up since then watching. She's been grooming and doing other activities as if nothing is wrong. The only odd thing is she won't accept any food at all. Not timothy, not the seedy part of timothy, not alfalfa, not a bit of one of those papaya enzyme treat pills, nothing.

So I'm all worried and checking on her every 15 minutes, ready to take her to the MSU emergency clinic, when she hops away from me, and does a COMPLETE FLOP. I don't mean she flopped onto her side, which is cute. I mean she flopped all the way on her back. I've never seen such a thing.

Now I feel like I'm worrying over nothing. She's just full and wants me to go away for the night? In the meantime Riley's been eating hay like mad. Pancake cronches her teeth when I pet her but not otherwise, so I guess she can't be in too bad of pain.

Oh the other thing that had me worried is that she seems tired. But that's normal, I mean, it's her bedtime. But it seemed unusual for some reason. I can't put my finger on it.


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## JeffS (Jan 16, 2010)

I gave her and riley a big handful of romaine a couple hours before I went to put them to bed. Dunno if it's relevant.


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## JeffS (Jan 16, 2010)

She doesn't feel bloated. I think I'm overreacting and just causing unnecessary stress. I'm going to leave her alone for a while to see if maybe she sleeps a bit and wakes up hungry.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Jan 16, 2010)

Monitor how much she has eaten of both hay and pellets, hay being most important. Also, monitor how much water has been drank. If these slow down considerably, you may have a problem. Otherwise, if we're eating and drinking and pooping, this is always good!


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## JeffS (Jan 16, 2010)

No improvement yet.  It doesn't help that I've been prodding her and massaging her belly. So she's upset. I hope that's what's wrong now.


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## JeffS (Jan 16, 2010)

If she does have a gi tract problem, I suspect the flop was part of trying to get comfy with all the gas inside her. She did some moving around at first, but now she's huddled up. I'm waiting for a call back from the MSU clinic on how much it might cost. Also I know a local vet who's retired/semiretired that I can call in an hour or two.


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## Pipp (Jan 16, 2010)

Failing the treat test is always cause for alarm, although not necessarily a trip to the ER. If there are no other symptoms, I usually try home treatments for about 12 hours before taking them in. 

Have you checked her teeth? I had a rabbit stop eating mid-meal and hunker down in his pen in obvious stress, he turned out to have a celery string caught in his tooth or throat. 

Most often, though, it's a gas attack, although must say they don't act that cheerful. The usual is doing the 'bunny loaf' stance, a lot of uncomfortable wiggling -- pressing tummies to the floor and getting up again -- and one of mine to the extent of glazed eyes and peeing himself. (Scary). 

Most of mine will usually allow tummy massages and vibration therapy and feel somewhat better immediately after those treatments and some simethicone gas meds, but the gas bubbles soon reform and they look bad again. 

But eventually they snap out of it pretty suddenly and go back to munching hay -- usually in six to 12 hours.

A bunny flop *might* be a gassy bunny, but mine don't usually groom. The most worrisome part is the 'tired' reference -- lethargy is always a concern. 

When did she last poop and how was the output? Is she grooming any particular body part more than the others? Like an ear? 

If a few rounds of simethicone and some massages don't work, I'd honestly get her into the regular vet ASAP. 


sas :clover:


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## Pipp (Jan 16, 2010)

A gassy bunny won't always feel bloated, although an ear to the tummy might produce some gurgling. 

How old is she? I assume she's spayed? 

When did she last eat, poop and pee and was everything normal? 

Mild exercise is good, although she may not agree.

I do very very long massages, including vibration therapy with a vibrating toothbrush.

And you really have to keep her warm. Is she feeling cold? 


sas :clover:


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## JeffS (Jan 16, 2010)

Her last poops were normal (I think) but hours ago. She's completely lethargic now. She won't move unless I've really harassed her with tummy massages. She's feeling more bloated now too. She's trying to pee sometimes but it's hard to tell if anything's coming out.

I got some water down her throat which wasn't fun, but she sat in front of her water dish (after I put her there) for a half hour to an hour and I'm pretty sure she didn't move even to drink.

Libby's 100% pumpkin is shockingly disliked by Pancake and Riley. I didn't know that till just now.

Simethicone is next.


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## Pipp (Jan 16, 2010)

Don't worry about feeding her. And she may not be trying to pee, she's probably trying to pass gas. 

If her pee was normal last time you checked, and she was pooping a few hours ago, I think you're dealing with your basic gas attack. 

Long massages, mild exercise, warm fluids and Simethicone will help. She's feeling more bloated now because the bubbles are reforming. 

Its unlikely to be a GI tract or stasis situation at this point, it's more likely to be gas from something she ate -- the lettuce maybe. 

If you have Metacam or baby Motrin or something, it may make her feel better, but seeing as it has to be taken with food and only given to a well-hydrated bunny, it may be more trouble than its worth. 

Do you have any gas meds there? 

Poor Pancake. Poor Jeff! If its any consolation, they look worse than they actually are. But they really do better with the above treatments.


sas :clover:


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## Pipp (Jan 16, 2010)

PS: For future reference, the Simethicone should actually be the first thing to try, it's very safe and won't hurt a bunny even if the problem isn't gas. And because any stress on their systems can lead to upsets and gas, it's always a good first line of defense. 

Also don't be afraid to give her sizable doses -- far larger than human babies are prescribed. When I use a 40 mg suspension baby gas drop, I give my little 2 lb guys a full CC of the stuff every hour for three hours, and a fourth if needed. (After that you have to stop for six to eight hours, although it's always gone by then). I've actually started using adult gas meds.

It can take a good eight hours or longer of treatments before they're suddenly back to normal. Very nerve-wracking. They really can look awful.


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## JeffS (Jan 16, 2010)

Thank you guys for your help. I got back from a long trip out to get simethicone and pedialite. I feel horrible that I didn't have them on hand, but I do now.

The good thing is, she's eating! Since the things I got are harmless I'll probably give her some anyway. I'm going to check her tummy after she's done eating.

I've been operating under the assumption that it's serious. I'm so glad that not all tummy troubles are serious. After all the stuff I've read online I've come to believe they're all serious.


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## JeffS (Jan 16, 2010)

BTW pet stores didnt' have simethicone in easy to dose liquid form. Only rite aid did and it's crazy expensive.

In fact, the 2nd pet store I visited, Pet Smart, their only anti-gas medicine was for dogs and it consisted mostly what you'd find in your spice cabinet.

Back to watchign Pancake eat.


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## Pipp (Jan 16, 2010)

I wouldn't trust a pet drug to be honest. Simethicone shouldn't have a lot of other junk mixed in with it and who knows what the pet industry will come up with.

And as noted any time a bunny fails the treat test, it's serious. The gas can be a symptom of stasis or bloat, and both are deadly serious. Or it could be a byproduct of other ailments. 

But when they're the kind caused by 'something they ate', they will more than likely pass in a few hours. 

That said, my bunny with the very bad gas attacks ended up dying of stomach cancer. Had I taken him into the vet and had him x-rayed, we may have caught it. Indeed, his attacks may have been because of the cancer. 

I tend to hold off on ER vets if I can because they're less likely to be 'rabbit savvy', aside from being ridiculously expensive. But a lethargic bunny and/or one in serious pain is seriously ill and may not have the luxury of wait-and-see diagnostics. 

I really have to be very sure there are no other symptoms beyond the gas and that it's textbook 'something they ate' gas attack behavior.

Glad she's feeling better. 

Best to stick with just hay and water for a few hours. 



sas :bunnydance:


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## JeffS (Jan 16, 2010)

She's eating more hay and she's laying soft poops. I'm so relieved!


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## Maureen Las (Jan 16, 2010)

Glad that things worked out. The simethicone can be bought at any pharmavy ; What you want is a baby liquid gas medication. Read the back of the package ; the only active ingredient should be simethicone and not anything else. 

Always try to keep liquid baby gas medication ( simethicone) and pedialyte in the house. You also should get a probiotic called benebac which may reestablish the gut flora. Benebac can bought at pet stores in either a gel form for small animals or powdered form for cats and dogs ( which is fine). You wouldn't want to use the bird benebac on a rabbit.
A bout of gas can look really serious and in all honesty turn serious if untreated but the simethiconeis very good at helping with this.


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## tonyshuman (Jan 18, 2010)

I also want to mention that bloat is different from gas. Gas is in the intestines, and calls for simethicone, heat, and belly massages. Bloat is gas in the stomach, and it calls for a vet visit ASAP. Massage will make that worse.


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## JeffS (Jan 18, 2010)

Ah, I hadn't heard that massage was good for one and bad for the other. Thanks for pointing that out.

She's fine now, so I figure at worst I didn't do anything to make her condition fatal. I may have helped, hard to say. I can see that I need to find out how to tell how it's gas for sure vs possibly bloat.


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## tonyshuman (Jan 18, 2010)

Well, with bloat, you can usually see a distended abdomen, or upon feeling around gently, the stomach feels bigger. If you feel the gas being closer to the ribcage than the bum, it's probably bloat. 

When my guys have had gas, I haven't been able to "feel" gas in there--just knew that's what was going on because of the noises I heard, their eating/pooping/behavior changes, and that simethicone worked. Their intestines felt like they weren't of uniform density, if you know what I mean. While feeling the abdomen, down where the intestines are, It didn't feel all soft and doughy--there were spots that were more airy feeling and spots that were harder feeling. Also you can usually hear gurgling in the intestines if you have a stethoscope or hold them up to your ear if it's gas.

Glad she's doing better! 

It would be pretty clear, I think, if it were bloat instead of gas, just by looking at the belly. Just wanted to clarify that they're different and the treatment for one could actually hurt if it's the other condition.


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## Pipp (Jan 18, 2010)

Bloat comes on very fast and is most often accompanied by a grossly extended stomach, explosive diarrhea and a cold, clammy an obviously very ill rabbit. 

I try to avoid the stomach area when I'm massaging regardless, which is fairly high up on the rabbit's left side of the body. I try and massage from the area just below the stomach downward towards the anus.


sas


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## Maureen Las (Jan 18, 2010)

*Pipp wrote: *


> I try to avoid the stomach area when I'm massaging regardless, which is fairly high up on the rabbit's left side of the body. I try and massage from the area just below the stomach downward towards the anus.
> 
> 
> sas



Pipp mae a good point. 

I also avoid massaging the abdomen directly althoughI do massage around it hoping that it willindirectlycreate peristalsis.
Putting too much pressure on a distended abdomen (even if it is gas and not bloat) could be painful or possibly harmful to the rabbit if the pressure was too hard. 
I try to imagine what it would feel like if someone was massaging my stomach when I was full...not a good thing ...


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## JeffS (Jan 20, 2010)

Pancake's initial gassy spot was just below where her ribs separate and it felt like a balloon. Later her abdomen just felt like it had bubbles.

When I go to the vet next, hopefully just for their yearly checkup, I'll make sure to have the vet teach me what to do when these things happen.


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