# How high of a home?



## cardcrimson (Dec 21, 2012)

A total newbie here; Santa is bringing my daughter a 10 wk old mini lop on the big day. I'm putting together a nic cage and am concerned about a couple of issues. 

First, how high can the little guy jump? I've seen some cages online that don't have a top and had "floors" only 14inches from the top of the cage. Will that work?

Second, I have some wool carpet remnants that I was thinking of using for the upper floors. Will the little guy eat it, and if so, will it be harmful. I've read that natural is ok, and I've read the opposite.

My current design is L shaped, about 2 feet wide by eight feet long, with the L section adding a 2 by 2 foot section. I was thinking the base of the L, 2 x 4, would have a second floor, as would the top of the L (only 2 x 2).

Finally, I bought one of those 2 foot bendy plastic tubes from petco. The pet shop owner from where the mini lop is coming recommends against plastic. This one stumps me, as the litter box she sold me is plastic as well. . . .

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Steve

PS--I found NIC cubes at Kmart for only $22 for six. Not bad.


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## Imbrium (Dec 21, 2012)

you can also get the cubes at sears for $17.59 if you order online/do site-to-store (23 panels per box) 

I've seen open-topped cages; I guess it depends on the bunny as to whether it works. my Nala managed to CLIMB a 48'' tall playpen and plop down to the floor on the other side like 3 times before I figured out how she was escaping and used a piece of poster board to put a stop to it. if she's willing to go up and over with a 4' drop, I don't doubt she'd be out of a 2 grid high cage with a second floor and no ceiling in the blink of an eye. imo, better safe than sorry - put a lid on it if he's not free-range (ie bunny-proofed house and he's allowed to just walk out of the cage normally).

carpet is only ok if he's not a chewer - the fibers can cause a blockage if ingested. you can use coroplast (corrugated plastic; some Home Depots sell it for $13 for a 4'x8' sheet, sign stores also sell it), plywood, etc. if you're worried he might try to nom carpet. personally, I like the coroplast - it's a bit pricier, but it's waterproof and the way it's made into floors involves making small sides to the floor which prevent stray poops from getting kicked out (and there's always a ton of stray poop with babies).

here's how the coroplast floors work: http://www.guineapigcages.com/cubes.htm

is it the 4'' diameter plastic tunnel? if so, he's going to outgrow it and you'll want to replace it with http://www.petco.com/product/116627/WARE-Fun-Tunnel-for-Small-Animals.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch eventually. my girls started with the 4'' one as babies and ADORED it, so I upgraded them when they got too big for it. that's a *very* popular toy with bunnies - a LOT of people on this site have one . it's safe to use.

btw, what kind of litter box did you buy there? if it's a corner one, he'll outgrow it soon enough. I recommend a cheap cat box from walmart ($2-4 or something depending on whether it's full size or a smaller one). they like to eat and poop at the same time, so it's best to have something big enough that you can put hay in it, too.

couple other tips for a new owner that you won't learn at a pet store:
~ a *great* litter box litter is wood pellets from a feed store or wood stove pellets from a hardware store (only available in areas that have an actual winter, I believe... make sure they don't say they have an accelerant added. they're very absorbent and great at odor control, plus it's like $5-7 for a 40 lb bag.
~ pet store hay is obscenely over-priced. it's typically around $3 a pound... if you buy hay by the bale from a feed store, it's more like $1 for 7-8 lbs. a bale of alfalfa would almost certainly last you until he's about 7 mos old and needs to be switched over to grass hays... as far as other types of hay that are ok, *any* horse-quality grass hay is acceptable for a bunny of any age (if it's something like oat or wheat, though, you need to pick out any oats or w/e, as the extra carbs are no good for bunnies).

a bale of hay can be stored for a LONG time (a year or more) as long as it's kept dry and insect free. you can store it in plastic storage tubs, unscented plastic garbage bags, bale bags, etc. I opted to buy bale bags from http://www.tackwholesale.com/bale-bags-c-11.html (I got two half-bale bags so it'd be easier for me to move the hay (a bale can be anywhere from 50-100 lbs) and so that I could stack them to take up less space). the feed store split the bale in half and put it in the bags for me free of charge.

also, http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=53690&forum_id=93 - great litter box system; I highly recommend the grid even if you don't want to build the whole thing (check 1/3 of the way down the first page)


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## LakeCondo (Dec 21, 2012)

cardcrimson said:


> A total newbie here; Santa is bringing my daughter a 10 wk old mini lop on the big day. I'm putting together a nic cage and am concerned about a couple of issues.
> 
> First, how high can the little guy jump? I've seen some cages online that don't have a top and had "floors" only 14inches from the top of the cage. Will that work?
> 
> ...



1}14" high needs a top. An exercise pen of 48" high isn't tall enough for a climber until the bottom rungs are blocked off so they can't be stood on. But even a non-climber can jump 14"

2) Honey will chew up carpet, but doesn't swallow the pieces, but other rabbits might swallow it. If it's natural it should dissolve during digestion unless there's a lot. If the carpet has little loops that the toenails can be caught in, you can't use it. So I'd play it safe & use something else. You can use regular cardboard & replace as needed. It has more traction than coroplast, so might be better for a young rabbit.

3) Honey has nibbled at her plastic tunnel once or twice, but not seriously. I noticed only a tiny rough spot at one end.The harder the plastic,the less she seems to try nibbling it.


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## cardcrimson (Dec 21, 2012)

Thanks so much for the reply. 

I'll probably be adding a roof to the nic cage soon then. Odd that Sears doesn't even list them when I search, only Kmart. Must be the new, smarter Google. . . .

He's not going to be free range yet--too many cords, toys, stuffed animals, oriental rugs, etc to worry about. I wanted to give him as much area as could be safe, at least initially, so that's why the cage.

Thanks for the info on the tube. The one you recommended is the one I purchased (and the LPS recommended against). Also, regarding the hay, I'm fortunate that we have a feed and grain store that's actually closer than the LPS (rare for the SF Bay Area). I'll be buying most of my feed from there as I do with my wild bird feed.

And yes, I did get the corner litter box, though I am expecting to go to a larger version as he gets bigger. I do have an old litter box, but the LPS suggested otherwise, as my cats scent might still be there, even though the last use was to provide a basin for the Christmas tree (do bunnies like pine scent?).

Also, another question. For Christmas eve, before he's in his new digs, would a small cat carrier suffice? I also have a large, collapsable canvas kennel, but I'm afraid the little guy might chew through it. Thoughts?

Thanks again for the help!


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## cardcrimson (Dec 21, 2012)

LakeCondo,

Thanks also. I'm guess I'm surprised at rabbits being climbers, but that's why I'm trying to learn. At least initially the cage will be 28" high, with a covering over the second story at 14". I hope that works for a little while.

The carpet indeed has loops. It was a really nice, white Merino wool that seemed like a great choice before I had daughter. Now it is a wreck. Was hoping the remnants might work for bunbun. . . .

Like the tube, it will be a keeper.

Thanks again for the help!


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## Imbrium (Dec 21, 2012)

the sears ones are here: http://www.sears.com/stor-floor-sta...p-00913332000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1 ... for some reason, finding grids using any sort of search function is absurdly hit-and-miss if you don't know the brand name ><

Nala can't climb the pen directly, but there's one stretch where the pen meets the condo at a 90 degree angle where she could climb it, so I assume she was also using the NIC grids. oddly, the corners that are both pen sides and the corners that are both NIC grid, she can't climb... but that one spot, she found a way 

the cat box you have is probably ok - it's worth a try, anyway - if he doesn't like it, you can always switch. if you clean it with vinegar or an anti-animal-smell cleaner from the pet section of the store (I found a good one at walmart called "noodor"), that'll probably get rid of any lingering kitty smell.

for christmas eve, I would go with the kitty carrier in case he's a chewer... it's small, but as long as you put a little hay in there with him, he'll be fine for a couple hours or something.

they need 4-5h a day outside of the cage or 60+ square feet of running around room. if you ever do decide to bunny-proof, this site has awesome tips: http://www.binkybunny.com/BUNNYINFO/tabid/53/CategoryID/8/PID/940/Default.aspx ... if bunny-proofing seems like too much of a chore (it did for me, what with all my wooden furniture in the main part of the house) or you don't want to trust him loose when he's young/unneutered and his potty habits are a little lacking, I recommend an x-pen or two attached to the cage. I actually fenced in my entire living room for my girls using 2 pens and 5 grid-widths worth of 3-grid-high NIC fencing + the condo  (I have a huge tarp underneath the whole thing so they can't ruin the carpet). the best deal I've seen on a playpen is this one - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H8YTJI/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 (the price goes up sometimes, but eventually drops back down to $34). for a pen taller than 30'', I recommend http://www.petco.com/Shop/Product.aspx?sku=31313 (I got the 48'' tall ones so I could put big cardboard boxes and stuff in there).

here's my set-up:


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## JBun (Dec 22, 2012)

The problem with using carpet, no matter what kind of fiber it's made out of, is that if your rabbit injests large pieces or a large enough amount, it can create a gastrointestinal blockage, and that can kill a rabbit. So it really depends a lot on how much of a chewer your rabbit is. I do use carpet with some of my rabbits that aren't chewers at all. I use a very thin low pile carpet with a rubber backing. If for some reason one of my rabbits decides to chew at it, it can only pull up very tiny fibers instead of whole pieces or strands. Keep in mind that with new bunnies, they rarely are very consistant at using the litter box and most likely will pee on the carpet which will start to smell if not cleaned well. A smooth surface that you can wipe up pee accidents, is a better option, but you need to also have a nonslip surface so that your bunny doesn't develop leg defomities. There are stick on linoleum tiles if you can find one with a textured surface so it's not slippery. There are also these interlocking plastic utility or garage floor tiles that have a textured surface, that might work well. A very thin carpet is the best though for a non slippery surface as long as your rabbit is completely litter trained and doesn't chew, but it can also get messy and is harder to clean up then a smooth surface. i use linoleum with fleece over it for my rabbit that's a chewer, but I'm considering trying the garage floor tiles to see if I like them better.


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## whitelop (Dec 22, 2012)

I don't have much to add because you've gotten some pretty good advice. But I would like to say that you should ditch the corner litter box. Take it back to the store. Your bun will be small NOW, but I've had a mini lop. While they don't get HUGE or anything like that, their butts tend to be on the big side. So that big butt isn't going to fit in that corner litter box for very long, not long enough to justify keeping it and using it. My mini lop was 5 lbs even and thats not huge, but she was almost a snug fit in her kitten sized litter box, but she used that size well. I also had a second one that was filled with nothing put hay and she would sit in there and eat. I also had blankets on the bottom of her cage, she liked to push them out of the way and lay on the bottom. My mini wasn't a chewer at all as she got older, but I think she may have been the exception.


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## ldoerr (Dec 22, 2012)

I agree about ditching the corrner litter box. They are just about worthless pieces of junk. The rabbit will only fit in it for a week or two (just a guess) and then need an upgrade. Walmart sells kitten sized litter boxes for just a dollar or two (I got a kitten sized and a medium sized for $3 or $4 total a couple of weeks ago). Those corner litter boxes are WAY over priced. Another thing that a lot of us on her do is use plastic storage bins as litter boxes. They can be gotten most places for under $5 for a big one. For my Mini Rex and Jersey Wooly I use the 16qt size. 

I would not listen to what the petstore has to say. Their goal is to sell you lots of overpriced stuff. Most of them do not have a CLUE about animals. As you have told us they do not know what they are talking about. 

I do not know what you got to feed the rabbit, but avoid at ALL COSTS the food with the litter colorful bits in it. That is pure junk food. You want a food that is just the same uniforme pellet, with no extra "goodies" in it. Lots of us on here feed Oxbow and love it.


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## Blue eyes (Dec 22, 2012)

First, I want to commend you for doing research and getting on a forum to prepare for a new rabbit.

I realize this may be touchy, but I think it's important enough to bring up. A rabbit can get VERY stressed when moving to a new home. You may want to consider just how you will do "the surprise" on Christmas morning. That may be a hectic time with lots of commotion that can stress a bunny. Ideally, a new bunny should be brought home and placed directly in his/her new cage and then left undisturbed for the first 48 hours. Bunny has to get used to all the new sights, sounds and smells. Typically, kids will want to hold and cuddle a new rabbit, but that can be traumatic to a new bunny and isn't recommended. 

You may already know all this, but I thought it would be good to mention it so you can decide how best to handle the transition for the new bunny.:biggrin2:


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## cardcrimson (Dec 22, 2012)

Thanks to everybody for all the help and suggestions. Looks like the corner box is going back. Also, I will be putting a lid on the cage, thanks for the link to Sears, Imbrium. Odd that Kmart and Sears merged and share their website, but only the Kmart version showed up on Google, and was $4 more.

Thanks for the pics also, great ideas on a proper set up. I didn't see any ramps going to the various "floors," are they unnecessary? How about for little bunnies? Also, curious as to the TV remote--what do your bunnies like to watch?

The carpet's out, as well. Will figure out something to make the floors softer.

Speaking of over-priced stuff, both Petco and the LPS pushed the woven huts and baskets. Good buys or worthless?

We will do our best to keep the surprise level low, as I'm sure the little guy will indeed be stressed. At least he'll have a much bigger home and lots of loving. . . .

Thanks again!


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## Imbrium (Dec 22, 2012)

my bunnies were 11-12 weeks old when I built the condo (Nala got her head stuck in a grid at 9 weeks old because she stuck her head through and then her ears popped up and wouldn't go back through, which was rather terrifying, so I took the NIC away until I was SURE she couldn't do that again... lops have a wider head and don't have the upright ears, plus mini lops are larger than lionheads, so your bunny should be ok at 10 weeks). Nala took to the levels *immediately* and loved jumping up and down them... Gazzles didn't seem to use them, so I put some extra pellets up on the top floor just for Nala (because Gaz was chubby and Nala wasn't) and the next time I came into the room, Gaz was on the third floor.

most bunnies, even at a young age, can make the 14'' jump just fine (especially if you show them a time or two and maybe put something nummy up there). I recommend against ramps, as they take up a lot of space. if your bunny has trouble getting up there, some better options are to not put the level up an entire grid height (have it a couple squares down from being a full grid) or to use a spare grid to make a "step" between the levels.

my bunnies watch whatever I happen to leave on for 'em, lol. no clue as to their preferences.

woven huts and baskets... ehh... pretty hit-and-miss. I've gotten a woven grass hut/tunnel thing and a willow tunnel... the woven one has been 100% ignored; the willow one has just enough nom marks that I can't return it but is otherwise ignored (shocking, because they LOVE willow balls). I'd never buy that stuff again. that said, some peoples' bunnies will destroy that stuff. even if they were liked, they're pretty pricey. sometimes you can find untreated wicker baskets at some sort of dollar store, those are a much cheaper option.


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## Tam O Ham (Dec 22, 2012)

I'll just do a drive by here on the woven bunny tunnels/hutches/mats. I got Georgie one of the woven huts from the pet store when I got her and she LOVED it. Loved being inside it and sitting on top of it until she'd chewed it down so much it wouldn't support her bunny butt anymore. We've gone through three now (it takes George several months at least to work through one) and I've got a fourth I have waiting until she's made an utter wreck of her last one (I can hear her busily shredding it as I type) to replace it. Like Jennifer says, it really is a hit or miss depending on the bun. I originally got it so she'd have somewhere small and enclosed to let her hide in and feel safe. The fact it doubles as food and a giant chew toy for her to beat up when she wants to just seems like a happy bonus to both of us. Considering everything else you're already investing in to give the bun a good home, I would say 'why not?' and try out one of the hutches just to see if it's a hit or not.


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## Tam O Ham (Dec 22, 2012)

Monty Python 'but look at the BONES!' reference goes here.


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## cardcrimson (Dec 26, 2012)

Thanks again for all the help! 

Went with a coroplast floor and Nibbler doesn't seem to like walking on it very much. I've added a couple of towels, which he enjoys laying on. Any suggestions for a good covering? 

We've added one shelf thus far and put hay on it. So far he is uninterested. He's 10 wks, how old until he is able do jump up to it, or is he already capable?


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## Imbrium (Dec 26, 2012)

he should already be able to jump up to it, once he figures out it's there and gets curious enough about it to try to jump. you could always put him up there to show him where it's at and check back in 15-20 mins to make sure he can find his way down.

I would be careful with towels - they can be dangerous if chewed on. you can use fleece (binder clips work very well to hold it on) to cover the coroplast floors... cheapest way to do it is to get these little $2.89 fleece blankets from walmart (they're sized just right for 3x2 grid floors). I found my girls were ripping up and peeing on the fleece, though, so I got this stuff from home depot that works very well - makes the floor less slick and the bunnies seem to like it:


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