# Kaytee vs Oxbow - there seems to be a difference



## Tweetiepy (Jan 14, 2011)

I normally buy Oxbow Timothy hay but the last time I bought some, there was a huge bag of Kaytee hay (94 oz I think) for cheaper than the 40 oz bag. 

I used up the smaller Oxbow bags and kept the large one for last so I'd have more time to get more hay. The Oxbow hay is nice and soft, with lots of grass-like pieces and those furry bits ( which my older bunny loves), they have some harder stems too but not lots. The Kaytee hay has a LOT of the harder stems (which my younger bunny likes) but he doesn't eat a ton of hay yet. The hay is mostly those hard bits and stems which my older bunny hates - I tell you once these two are bonded, no hay will go to waste) but right now he's tossing all those hard bits somost of the hay is going to waste. Even the smaller bag of Kaytee - the one with the dried mango - has much of the harder bits.

Did I just get a bad batch or are they all like this? Like I ended up getting a batch of Oxbow that was mostly brown.

Anyone else notice this? I'm wondering what the farmer hay is gonna look like.


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## Maureen Las (Jan 14, 2011)

I buy Oxbow timothy hay in 50 lb boxes ; the hay has been very nice , green and softer. 
OcassionallyI will buy Kaytee for the shelter rabbits and there have been times it was like uncooked spagetti and other times when it was nice. 
Maybe you would do better if you bought hay in bulk directly from Oxbow (which is what I do ).
You can no longer order the hay on-line but you can call the Oxbow company and order it over the phone.The hay is shipped directly from Oxbow headquarters in Nebraska

http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/

They will try to get you to order from Foster and Smith and other stores etc but I just keep calling the company and ordering direct.


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## elrohwen (Jan 15, 2011)

I've found that the 50lb box of Oxbow was nicer quality than the small bags, for whatever reason.

Farmer hay is highly variable, in my experience. Working at the shelter we went through tons of bales and every shipment was different from those before. The ones in the winter tended to be hard and brown, while the ones in the summer were soft and green and fresh. Farmer hay can be wonderfully cheap, but I think it's less quality controlled than Oxbow is. If you're feeding horses multiple flakes of hay per day, it's hard to care too much about whether the hay is perfectly green and soft - horses will take whatever. I think quality matters more in bunnies because we feed them smaller amounts and they can be picky.


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## Tweetiepy (Jan 15, 2011)

*angieluv wrote: *


> I buy Oxbow timothy hay in 50 lb boxes ; the hay has been very nice , green and softer.
> OcassionallyI will buy Kaytee for the shelter rabbits and there have been times it was like uncooked spagetti and other times when it was nice.
> Maybe you would do better if you bought hay in bulk directly from Oxbow (which is what I do ).
> You can no longer order the hay on-line but you can call the Oxbow company and order it over the phone.The hay is shipped directly from Oxbow headquarters in Nebraska
> ...


Do you know if they ship to Canada? Foster and Smith don't ship across the border.


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## Momto3boys (Jan 15, 2011)

Nope but that site I gave you does.

It's probably going to be the only place in Canada that will ship 50lbs of it. 

Check with your vet office, alot of vets can get Oxbow in.


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## Maureen Las (Jan 15, 2011)

Sorry I should have checked your location 

You do not have to order as much as 50 lbs but can get 25 lbs and and less


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## MsBunBun (Jan 21, 2011)

The last time I got Oxbow hay (sometime last month) it smelled AWFUL... but it looked fine. Everytime I smelled it it made me feel a little sick, but it didnt seem to bother my rabbit...lol. 

I get Kaytee now and I notice the difference, it doesnt smell as strong and my rabbit still loves it  There are harder stems though. I wonder why that is.


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Jan 21, 2011)

I buy directly from a local farmer and he always has very nice fresh, green hay. He stores it in a huge closed barn so I'm sure that helps.


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## Nancy McClelland (Jan 21, 2011)

I've switched from Kaytee to Oxbow--seems to be a better quality. We buy 50 pounds at a time.


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## mrbunny (Apr 13, 2011)

Hello,

I'm planning on purchasing a 50lb box of Oxbow timothy hay. How big is the box? This is so I know whether or not I can fit it in the back of the car, or if I need to bring rope with me to put it on the roof of the car.

Thank you.


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## Tweetiepy (Apr 13, 2011)

Is it the 50 lb Oxbow box or just a 50 lb bale of hay? The oxbow box is at least 2 feet square all around - a bale I think is more rectangle


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## mrbunny (Apr 13, 2011)

50lb box. Thank you. I've tried many bunny forums for that answer!


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## Eli (Apr 18, 2011)

If you only have 2 bunnies, a 50 lb box is might be a bit much. Hay only stays fresh for so long. When you start seeing browning in the hay, it is starting to go bad. The same goes for pellets whereas 6 weeks usage is all you should stock. At least, that's what I read. Many times, there are no expiration dates on feed, or hay. Few do.

If you are using the hay as bedding and litter, then 50 lbs is ok. But if it's just as food, maybe get less.


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## mrbunny (Apr 18, 2011)

I don't expect 50lbs to last my buns very long. My estimate is six months.

My buns go through a lot of hay--playing and eating with it. Just Ms Buns alone (before Mr Bighead's recent arrival), I would spend about $20 for Kaytee's 96oz (2.72kg = 6 lbs) bags of timothy hay every 3-4 weeks. Ms Buns plays with her hay (she does thing where it looks like she's swimming in it). Also, Ms Buns (and eventually Mr Bighead) has free run of home, so I leave hay in several places for her to munch on.

Finally, I would like to move my buns away from Kaytee. I've been feeding it to them because it's the only sold at the PetValu closest to me. However, since a generous friend of mine is willing to lend me his car, I would like to pick up better quality hay.

If it does turn out to be too much, I'm perfectly alright with giving it away to some bun owners I know. Better too much than too little, right?


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## Eli (Apr 19, 2011)

Bunny swimming in hay!!! I think I just saw Bubbles doing that! :laugh:

I am trying to search for a more long-stemmed hay myself. Recently I tried Oxbow, but it was just as short as the Kaytee. It was a 2.6 lb loose bag of hay. Only difference was there was not as much dust, although still quite dusty. If you do get a hold of the 50 lb box, I would love to know if the stems are long. I also understand quality of hay to differ depending on the season. I keep reading that timothy is best not when it is leafy, but actually when it is more stems and therefore fibrous. I would love to know how your box turns out.:biggrin:


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## mrbunny (Apr 19, 2011)

I'm not sure about timothy hay, but Ms Buns has tried Oxbow's botanical hay, orchard grass, and organic meadow hay. Buns seem to *love* botanical hay. Orchard grass is a good chow for Ms Buns as well. As for meadow hay, it was good, but somewhere along the way Ms Buns decided she didn't like it anymore. Meadow hay is extremely dusty. I still have a bit of meadow hay left and I use it for litter.


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## Eli (Apr 19, 2011)

I have tried many of Oxbow's hays, but in the smaller sizes. Mini bales, I think. I am wondering if Oxbow's larger hay offerings are also longer stemmed as well. In the mini bales, they are cut quite short. 

I also tried Oxbow's Oat Hay - I really liked that one since it was the only one that was not too dusty. Unfortunately, oat cannot replace timothy. I wonder if it is because of the season. I will check up on that and let you know.


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## Eli (Apr 19, 2011)




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## Tweetiepy (Apr 19, 2011)

*Eli wrote: *


> I am trying to search for a more long-stemmed hay myself. Recently I tried Oxbow, but it was just as short as the Kaytee. If you do get a hold of the 50 lb box, I would love to know if the stems are long.




The 50 lb box I got had stems that were about 18" long (this is where I learned that hay causes bad splinters as I tried to rip the strands apart with my hands) - the hay is greed, beautiful and smells heavenly. I got mine from Montrealcritters.com - they mailed the box out to me because I asked - normally it's just for pickup.It has both coarse strands and more tender pieces with lots of those fuzzy tails that my bunnies love.

They Kaytee stems were much shorter and the bag I got had only the coarse pieces that the rabbits didn't like.

I saw bunny names like Mr Bighead - is that really your bunny's name? - I guffawed at that one!


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## Eli (Apr 19, 2011)

Thanks Tweetiepy! That is great to know. I will buy a large box next time. I hate the dusty little bags with short stems.


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## SablePoint (Apr 19, 2011)

I'm surprised that yall's rabbits like Oxbow. I bought a 5 pound bag( like $7.00 - rip off!) one time and my bunnies didn't touch it(Mr. Bun Bun nibbled some but you could tell he didn't like it).


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## Eli (Apr 19, 2011)

What does your rabbit like to eat, SablePoint?


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## SablePoint (Apr 19, 2011)

Kaytee, Nutriphase, Hartz, and pellet food that Eden Farms(a rabbitry in VA) makes are their favorite brands.


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## Eli (Apr 20, 2011)

They may be liking the softer, less fibrous hay. I have been researching pellets as well. Does Eden Farms pellets contain molasses as a binder? I am trying to find a cheaper alternative that does not have molasses, or sodium lignosulphonate as a binder. Molasses makes them fat and rots their teeth, whereas sodium lignosulphonate may cause lesions in the colon with prolonged use. So far, I have only found 1 feed that doesn't contain either ingredient, and that is Oxbow's Organic Bene Terra Rabbit.


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## MikeScone (Apr 20, 2011)

*mrbunny wrote: *


> I'm not sure about timothy hay, but Ms Buns has tried Oxbow's botanical hay, orchard grass, and organic meadow hay. Buns seem to *love* botanical hay. Orchard grass is a good chow for Ms Buns as well.


Botanical hay _is_ timothy, with some sweet-smelling stuff like chamomile added. I stopped buying it because Scone wouldn't eat it (timothy? Yuck), and Natasha was happy with just plain timothy. 

Orchard grass is a favorite, even more than timothy. Scone was very fond of Peter's Meadow Mix (a Marshall's product), but I haven't seen it around recently.


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## Eli (Apr 20, 2011)

Not eating timothy hay? That is quite unhealthy. Orchard grass alone does not have enough fiber. Is Scone just against eating timothy?


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## mrbunny (Apr 20, 2011)

Hahaha, yes, those are my rabbits names and yes, my male rabbit is named Mr Bighead. (He has a ginormous head. That's him in the picture. I would say it's between 1/4-1/3 of his body.) 

Thank you, MikeScone. I know botanical hay was timothy hay with added herbs, but I figured there was some sort special process along with it. From the sounds of your reply (I'm assuming), it simply is timothy with added herbs. Since I already buy dried chamomile and rose petals and rose hips for the buns separately, so it may not necessary for me to purchase botanical hay. 

Oh, and I'm not sure (very unsure) on this, but I think oat hay is more fattening than timothy hay and a possible cause of GI stasis. It may be a rumor I heard somewhere, because I can't find anything on Google on it currently and the HRS website does not have any recommendations against oat hay (that I can find). I remember American Pet Diner once sold a bag of oat, wheat, and barley hays called "grain hay" and I think it was discontinued for that reason.

Has anyone purchased oat groats for their buns? I'm thinking about buying them. http://www.chinchilla.ca/items.php?ProductID=FTCOATGR&Name=Minerals%20&%20Supplements&source=feed

And also, apple pomace chunks? I know farmers do feed them to horses. Or, am I better off with regular apple peels once in a while? http://www.chinchilla.ca/items.php?ProductID=OAP3505&Name=Treats&source=feed


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## SablePoint (Apr 21, 2011)

Oops! I thought you guys were talking about brands of food pellets! lol As for hay, the rabbits really don't care. Mr. Bun Bun isn't allowed to have hay cause it causes him to sneeze. I guess it's the dust. He's already allergic to Orchard Hay. He's never been a big fan of Timothy Hay anyways, he did like the Orchard Hay though. Poor Bun Bun.


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## MikeScone (Apr 21, 2011)

*Eli wrote: *


> Not eating timothy hay? That is quite unhealthy. Orchard grass alone does not have enough fiber. Is Scone just against eating timothy?


Scone passed away last June, and for the seven-and-a-half years of his life he refused to eat any timothy hay. Period. Even mixed with other stuff, he'd pick out the other hay and leave the timothy. He was a picky bun. 

He liked any other sort of hay, though, and I always had two or three sorts around for him to choose from, so I don't think he lacked anything in diet. 

I'm not sure why you'd label orchard grass "unhealthy". According to the various websites I've checked, the fiber content of orchard grass is only fractionally lower, if at all, than timothy - a percent or two at most. The biggest difference I saw was 32% for timothy, 30% for orchard grass. I buy mostly Oxbow hay, and their page has both at 32% fiber, as do quite a few other suppliers. Grass hays will vary more from cutting to cutting and year to year than between grass types.


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## MikeScone (Apr 21, 2011)

*mrbunny wrote: *


> Oh, and I'm not sure (very unsure) on this, but I think oat hay is more fattening than timothy hay and a possible cause of GI stasis.


I think you're confusing oat hay with oats. Oat hay is cut before the seed heads ripen into full oats. I haven't seen anywhere which says that it's any more fattening than timothy - Oxbow's page has the nutritive values at the same. 

My biggest problem with oat hay was that the buns seem to like to use it more as a toy than a food - both Scone and Natasha liked to dig through the hay to find the seed heads, and then just threw the rest around the room. I've stopped buying it for Natasha, in favor of other hays she'll eat instead of play with.


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