# Decision to euthanize...please help. (RIP)



## pinupchick (Apr 1, 2010)

My 1.5 yr old Netherland dwarf Earl had GI stasis 6 months ago and fully recovered. On March 20 he stopped eating and pooping and I took him to the vet and she treated him for stasis again, giving him an antibiotic, pain injection and metacam. I fed him Critical Care as prescribed and noticed that on Monday he started walking oddly on his front legs. A different vet thought it was stress-related and also noticed that his molars were overgrown. On Tuesday (21) he went in for his molar trim and by that point he was limping. The vet noticed a large weeping wound on his front right elbow and noted that his entire leg was swollen. He began a regimen of Baytril, metacam and Buprenorphine, in addition to the Critical Care. Last week (Thursday, 24?) he began eating on his own again and I took him back to the vet to have his wound looked at. She said it looked much better. For the past week he has been lively, hopping around like normal and eating and pooping up a storm. ]Yesterday morning he stopped eating again. I took him and and the vet said his wound is necrotizing, and new lesions are developing on his chest. She also noticed that his shoulder is swollen this time.

I was told by two different vets that his prognosis is poor.
My options are to keep him on antibiotics, Critical Care, and pain meds to see if it improves, or to euthanize him. I have a tentative appointment booked for 3 hours from now.
I don't know if I should fight the good fight or let him go peacefully. He really hates the force-feeding and force-medicating, and I'm not sure I want to impose that on him if he's likely going to die anyway.

Any advice is greatly appreciated. This has been a heartwrenching ordeal for me, and as a student, a financially painstaking one as well.

Thanks.


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## Mrs. PBJ (Apr 1, 2010)

I really hope someone comes a long soon. 

I just wanted to say I hope you can make a good decision I am sorry you have to also.


Has teeth trimming been discussed?

That should help the eating. 

I am sorry I don't have more. ink iris:


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## pinupchick (Apr 1, 2010)

Thanks for responding. He had molar spurs but they were already trimmed. He's not eating now because of the infection or the pain he's experiencing. He's on about as much pain medicine as I can safely give him.

Today he's just really lethargic and lying with his chin in his water bowl. If I try to pet him he hides in the corner.


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## Nancy McClelland (Apr 1, 2010)

It sounds like the kindest thing to do would be to say goodbye. The prognosis doesn't sound very good and from what you've written he doesn't seem to have a chance at a quality life. It's never an easy decision to make. I had to make a decision about Nik-Nik a couple of years ago that I still have bad feelings about. Our Bull-Mastiff broke my finger and while I was at the Doctor she got caught on the wire that held a water bottle to a hutch. She was such a mountain goat. I came home to put her up and pack for the hsopital as they were gonna have to put my finger back together and re-attach the tendons. I wrapped her up and took her to the vet and then went to the hospital. The vet called me and said her back leg was shattered and that it could be splinted but probably wouldn't take as it was really bad or they could amputate. I asked them to put her to sleep as I wouldn't be able to take care of her in any case and the minimum it was going to cost was $1200. I loved that little bunny and I still miss her, but we couldn't afford it and I couldn't take care of her with my hand and arm immobilized. All we can do is give our charges love and a good forever home and when it's time, we do need to say goodbye. Good luck.


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## TinysMom (Apr 1, 2010)

I used to be on a list for owners of disabled rabbits and they often talked about the three A's...

Affection
Alertness
Appetite

The idea was if the rabbit had those three or two of those three (could be showing affection to another rabbit if they had a partner)...then it was not time to let them go. But if they didn't have those three things - they wanted to be allowed to die.

I hate to say this as I normally fight for life as much as possible - but it sounds like the kindest thing you can do is help your bunny cross the rainbow bridge with the vet's help.

So often this final act of love for them - breaks our heart - but it does keep them from suffering if there is no hope of recovery.


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## Happi Bun (Apr 1, 2010)

I'm so sorry this happening. :hug: What Peg posted about the three A's is so very true. If an animal still is affectionate (in whatever way is normal for them), alert, and their appetite is still in place (even if you are having to force feed) then they are fighting and I help by not giving up. However, when they become an empty shell of suffering I believe helping them cross is the best thing.


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## tonyshuman (Apr 1, 2010)

It is your decision of course, and the best way to tell is by looking at him and seeing what he's communicating to you. I agree that his prognosis does not sound good. Any tissue that has necrotized needs to be removed surgically, and then the wound will have to heal, keeping it open so that it can heal from the inside out, and stay clean during that process. That would take at least 2 months, I would think. 

The antibiotics being used, though, are not going to be effective against the bacteria in an abscess. Abscess bacteria are usually anaerobic, meaning they grow without oxygen being present, and something like Baytril is not affective against anaerobic bacteria. A better option would be an injectible antibiotic like penicillin G procaine/benzathine or Convenia. It may be easier to give him shots, it may not. The penicillin is given every other day at home by the owner, and the Convenia is given every 5 days, usually by a vet.

If you think he wants to fight through months of pain, injections, oral pain meds, probiotics, and food, not to mention that he may have some other tooth issues going on that should probably be addressed in the future, then I say go for it. That is a lot to ask a little bunny to put up with, though, so I can understand not wanting to put him through all that suffering for a slim chance of survival. 

For instance, I had a hamster with uterine problems. I was unwilling to put her through abdominal surgery to remove her uterus, although it probably would have solved the problem, because abdominal surgery is tricky, and she was at the life expectancy for her breed and I didn't think she'd be able to heal from that kind of surgery. I kept her happy in a hospice-care setting, and one day it got really bad, so I had her put to sleep. Sometimes it is the right thing to do. 

Since he's still young, it's harder to make that decision. A happy patient that wants to live will do better than one who has given up. If he has given up, or you expect that the pain and suffering of the treatment will cause him to become very depressed, then it may be the right decision to have him euthanized. I say that I won't hold back treatment on an animal that still wants to live.


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## pinupchick (Apr 1, 2010)

Me and my boyfriend decided to euthanize him. He was grinding his teeth really loudly all day despite being on two pain medications. He was laying with his chest and chin in his water bowl and not moving. When I pet him he just shook.

The vet looked at him quickly and said that his shoulder swelling had gone down, but I noticed that his chest lesions had worsened and she said that she was concerned it would do the same thing that his elbow lesion had done, and might need to be excised. 

I've been saying all along I won't give up before he did. But I think he gave up today, and unfortunately, so did I.

RIP little Earl. 
=(

Thanks to everyone who posted.


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## elrohwen (Apr 1, 2010)

This is one of the hardest decisions that a pet owner will ever have to make. I think you did what is best for him - it sounds like he was in a lot of pain and didn't have a chance at recovery. I'm sure he had a wonderful life with you, even if it was two short, and some day you'll be able to smile when you remember him.

*hugs* And binky free little Earl.


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## Pet_Bunny (Apr 1, 2010)

Sorry you had a tough decision. Though my words are little comfort, Earl is at a better place.

Binky Free Little Earl. ink iris:


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## tonyshuman (Apr 1, 2010)

I'm so sorry. It sounds to me like you did the right thing. Binky free, Earl.


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## kirbyultra (Apr 1, 2010)

:hug:

Binky free, Earl.


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## Pipp (Apr 1, 2010)

So sorry. :tears2:

Did they come up with an actual diagnosis? This is something I haven't really run across before. 

But it really sounds like it would have been an endless cycle, whatever the cause. 

I agree with the decision. 

So sorry.  

:rip: Earl


sas :sad:


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## tonyshuman (Apr 1, 2010)

It sounds a bit like the abscess on his leg spread up the leg and onto the chest area. Some abscesses have defined edges and are very "encapsulated" by the animal's body, some are not. I am guessing that this was a very aggressive bacterium that was resistant to the drugs he was put on. He was such a little bunny that a large abscess to him could be a medium-small abscess on a larger bunny. The pain from the wound, along with what might have been sepsis from infection getting into the bloodstream, caused him to shut down. Whether the teeth and abscesses were related, I don't know. It's possible that an infected tooth root led to infection in the shoulder and then farther down the leg and into the chest, instead of spreading up from the elbow to the chest, but since it showed up first in the elbow it's somewhat reasonable to think it started there.

Sorry if this sounds really clinical or heartless, but I know that when I have lost a pet, it helps me to try to figure out what happened. Often in the process I find that I did everything I could with what I knew at the time, and that helps to heal. It sounds to me like you too did the very best you could, and knowing that it was an unusual abscess and very aggressive bacterium (abscesses usually take weeks or months to develop) may help. It's rather rare that an abscess spreads like this--they're usually quite localized to a certain area.


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## pinupchick (Apr 2, 2010)

Thanks for all your comments. I'm still struggling with my decision, especially since the vet said his shoulder swelling was going down. But hearing the volume of his teeth grinding today and seeing how listless and sad he was really made me think that he didn't want to keep fighting.

There was no official diagnosis. The vet said it was some sort of cellulitis that hadn't yet abscessed. The lesion on his elbow started as an open moist wound and with alopecia. It began to crust over, and eventually, it scabbed and then thickened into black necrotic tissue. An xray showed no bony involvement. The wound on his elbow grew larger and thicker over a course of a few days. His elbow swelling responded to metacam I'm guessing, but obviously the bacteria didn't respond to the Baytril (and later on, Septra). The lesions on his chest were fresh, there were about 3 of them, and they were alopecia spots with crusting and scabbing. Obviously the concern was that these spots would necrotize also.

I'm second guessing myself though now. Culturing wasn't mentioned to me as an option initially, and I think it was too late once it was mentioned. This stuff is new to me so I just listened to my vet. Had I known at the beginning what I know now, I would have insisted on a culture of the wound. Too late, I know. At this point though he was in so much pain that putting him through more tests while forcefeeding him seemed cruel to me.

*sigh*


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## Pipp (Apr 2, 2010)

Unfortunately that kind of thing will keep coming back in rabbits. Even if you found the right antibiotics to treat it and he showed improvement, 1) I honestly think he was too far gone and 2) as soon as the antibiotics would be stopped, it would have come back -- maybe in another spot, maybe the same place. 

The key phrase to me was that he had new lesions. That so outweighed a minor decrease in swelling. 

Maybe he had an immunity issue or maybe he picked up a 'superbug', but this was not a run-of-the-mill bunny ailment. 

And cellulitis is torture. The whole thing just sounded really bad. Unspecific infections like that, especially in those areas, are just incredibly hard to treat and incredibly painful for the rabbit. 

So sorry.  But you did him a favor. 


sas :sad:


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## pinupchick (Apr 2, 2010)

Of all the afflictions that can affect rabbits, this http://wildlife1.wildlifeinformation.org/S/00dis/Bacterial/Necrobacillosis_lagomorphs.htm necrobacillus sounds the most like what he had, although it's very uncommon and Earl's living situations was quite cleanly (he was in a large plastic bottomed cage by himself, and this was cleaned every other day).

So no clue how he could have gotten this bacterium. The necrotizing and ulceration are what make it sound like what he had.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Apr 2, 2010)

Second guessing is our "second Nature" to this sort of loss. I did the same thing, when I lost Angel. It went on for months too. Just post or pm anyone to help you through it, that's what I did, and the people on here are amazing in just providing a nice surface, ya know? It's so hard, I know.

I'm so sorry, feel free to talk to me any time.:hug:


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## dquesnel (Apr 2, 2010)

*pinupchick wrote: *


> I'm second guessing myself though now. Culturing wasn't mentioned to me as an option initially, and I think it was too late once it was mentioned. This stuff is new to me so I just listened to my vet. Had I known at the beginning what I know now, I would have insisted on a culture of the wound. Too late, I know. At this point though he was in so much pain that putting him through more tests while forcefeeding him seemed cruel to me.
> 
> *sigh*



Of course, we would ALWAYS second guess ourselves when we are faced with the decision to PTS. If you hadn't, and he died suddenly you would have wished you PTS. And on the other hand, when you PTS you wonder if he would have recovered. It is totally natural and expected to second guess the decision but once the immediate pain of loss begins to pass you will have no doubt you made the right decision under those circumstances.

I think in this case, Pipp is right. It sounds like this was/could have been a vicious cycle that would repeat itself endlessly. I recently had to make a similar decision with a cyclical illness in my beloved rabbit, like you I chose to PTS. The relief I saw in his face after passing was enough to absolutely convince me that this was ok. I am so sorry you had to had to go through the experience, but it was so kind of you to let him go. I think our buns appreciate that of us. 

:angelandbunny:


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## Nancy McClelland (Apr 2, 2010)

we're so sorry you lost Earl. No matter how long they are with us it's never long enough. We've had to make the same decision twice--it wasn't easy, but, it was the right decision. Bless you little man and binky free.:bunnyangel:


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## jcottonl02 (Apr 2, 2010)

I'm so sorry. I was crying as I read this.

My words will be little comfort to you at this time...but from what I read about his condition, you most certainly did the right thing.

I'm so sorryink iris:


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## Snowballbun (Apr 2, 2010)

I'm so sorry to hear about your loss. He won't be in pain anymore.


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## mistyjr (Apr 2, 2010)

ray::bunnyangel2::rip::hug2::hugsquish: Hugs to you. Iwill keep you in my thoughts!


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