# Another dog food thread..



## MyLOVEABLES!! (Aug 25, 2009)

So Luca nearly finished his "vet-recomened-oh-wow-so-good-but-****-expensive-inside-is-pure-garbage-diet-vet-prescription" dog food. AKA Hills. *roll eyes* 
Can't believe my vet prescribed this... Spent nearly 200$ for a 13kg bag. -sigh- never really trust you vets.

So anyways looking for new brand of dog food before he finishes. He is 5years old Golden Retriever, slighty over weight (have lost 6kgs already! YAY!), less active. So the below dog food is for less active/weight mantaince/senior/large breed type  Ain't gonna say the names since it MAY effect opinions. 

*Less active dogs 
A)* meat & fats (mutton, beef, pork & venison)
omega 3, 6 & 9 â cold pressed flaxseed flour
eggs â green lipped mussels â kelp â garlic
honey and apple cider vinegar â vitamins & minerals

*Large breed, weight maintainance 
B)* Ground Rice, Chicken Meal, Rice Bran, Wheat Flour, Corn Gluten Meal, Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Natural Flavors, Poultry Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Soybean Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Sunflower Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Potassium Chloride, Dried Kelp, Egg Product, Taurine, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Pholyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Biotin, Copper Proteinate, Garlic Flavor, Potassium Iodide, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Panthothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, L-Carnitine, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Sodium Selenite, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Maganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid.

*Normal (Lamb and rice)*
*C) *Lamb meal, brown rice, cracked pearled barley, rice bran, peas, millet, canola oil, lamb, tomato pomace, natural flavor, flaxseed meal, potassium chloride, choline chloride, sun cured alfalfa meal, inulin (from chicory root), lecithin, sage extract, cranberries, beta carotene, rosemary extract, sunflower oil, yucca schidigera extract, dried enterococcus faecium, dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, dried bacillus subtilis fermentation extract, saccharomyces cerevisiae fermentation solubles, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid, cobalt proteinate, organic selenium, papaya, pineapple.
*
Adult Large breed
D)* Chicken (natural source of glucosamine), brewers rice, poultry by-product meal (natural source of glucosamine), corn gluten meal, whole grain wheat, whole grain corn, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), pea fiber, oat meal, fish meal, animal digest, salt, potassium chloride, calcium phosphate, potassium citrate, Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium carbonate, copper sulfate, calcium pantothenate, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, Vitamin B-12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, calcium iodate, Vitamin D-3 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite.

 comments and opinions and suggestions welcomed.

There are only limited brands of good dog food in NZ but I wants what's best for my dog.


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## Korr_and_Sophie (Aug 25, 2009)

I would go with A. The listing of the ingredients kinda confuses me, but it does seem to be the best of them IMO. It doesn't have grains and seems to have good meat sources. 

The first ingredient in B is a grain and the chicken meal is the only meat source. Not good for a carnivore. 

C is ok, but I would add some extra meat to the diet.

D has some not so good ingredients like corn and poultry by-product meal (or the bits or birds no one really wants ground into a powder).

My order would be A, C, D, B. But I would avoid B and D. 

Most vets don't get much nutrition training in vet school, and what they get is given by pet food companies. They are also paid to carry certain brands and tend to push those brands even though the food is not good. Just having a food in the vet office means the price is at least 50% higher than other places. 

If you want to know how much food Luca needs, you should figure out the calories he needs and how many calories are in a cup of food. Most foods should tell you the calorie count and there are calculators to find out how many calories you need. More excercise is always a good thing when trying to lose weight. An extra 15 minutes a day can make a huge difference.


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## irishbunny (Aug 25, 2009)

What's wrong with Hills? I don't feed it but I really like my vet and they swear by it, especially the one for cats, gave us a free bag lol!


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## degrassi (Aug 25, 2009)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> What's wrong with Hills? I don't feed it but I really like my vet and they swear by it, especially the one for cats, gave us a free bag lol!


Vets get paid to recommend certain brands of food. So of course they are going to swear by it if they are selling it. Hills is definitely far from the best food out there. 



> I would go with A. The listing of the ingredients kinda confuses me, but it does seem to be the best of them IMO. It doesn't have grains and seems to have good meat sources. The first ingredient in B is a grain and the chicken meal is the only meat source. Not good for a carnivore. C is ok, but I would add some extra meat to the diet. D has some not so good ingredients like corn and poultry by-product meal (or the bits or birds no one really wants ground into a powder). My order would be A, C, D, B. But I would avoid B and D.



I agree with this post. A looks the best, followed by C. I dont' like feeding a dog food that has grain in it, especially corn. Best to find a good grain free food. but if that isn't possible stay away from brands that are mostly grain fillers or that contain cheap grains like corn or by products/hulls.


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## Gabby (Aug 25, 2009)

first off I'd like to tell you at my work we do *NOT* get paid to recommend a food. We do not get paid to carry it period. And each food company is in competition, each one wants to be *the only* food you carry. We carry different ones because we feel that even if you took 3 different brands of dog food which are suppose to all do the same thing, because each animal is different one brand may work for one animal and not for another. Aside from that is palatability, some just taste better than others, if your animal won't eat it it's not doing you much good. 

One thing my vet recommends, if you are feeding your dog a kibble diet, either cut back the amount fed or see if your regular brand comes in a light(diet) formula, if you like your original brand and it offers a good diet version of it's self then why start a different brand. 

oh and my jaw nearly hit the floor seeing the price you paid for your food, that is INSANE!!!! I guess I'm used to where I work, we only charge a few $ more than it costs us to buy it. And that covers the shipping and what not. 

best of luck on your food decision.


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## MyLOVEABLES!! (Aug 26, 2009)

Thanks everyone, I wish there wa smore selection of dog food in NZ. But hey much more dog stuff than rabbit stuff here lol.

There is this other brand called ZIWIPEAK but as someone said on the other thread before "my dog would have to be pooping gold if I feed him this" or soemthing like that lol, its high quality stuff but so dang expensive like 100$ 4kgs or something... I dnt think i can afford that plus having a big dog phew! *faints*

whoops I actually forgot to add Hill's ingredients lol here it is:

E) Ground Whole Grain Corn, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Powdered Cellulose 10.4% (source of fiber), Soybean Mill Run, Soybean Meal, Chicken Liver Flavor, Dried Beet Pulp, Soybean Oil, Iron Oxide, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Potassium Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Choline Chloride, Taurine, minerals (Manganese Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with BHT, BHA and Ethoxyquin, L-Carnitine, Beta-carotene.

The above (A-D) are the food that I was thinking about or have fed before. **ALSO** I started on raw diet (after around 2 months of research!) but it is a bit hard to do when my dog gains weight really really really really x100 easily... so I love to continue with the raw diet if someone can give me a few tips about the weight thing... We feed him what a dog his target weight should feed and he does soo well on it, except as I said gains weight really easily.

Someone said above that they like C but would prefer it without grains well they have a salmon one or a grain free one as well here is the ingredients for their grain free one.

F) Chicken meal, turkey meal, lamb, potatoes, peas, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), lamb meal, ocean fish meal, tomato pomace, natural flavor, choline chloride, sun cured alfalfa meal, inulin (from chicory root), lecithin, sage extract, cranberries, beta carotene, rosemary extract, sunflower oil, yucca schidigera extract, dried enterococcus faecium, dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, dried bacillus subtilis fermentation extract, saccharomyces cerevisiae fermentation solubles, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid, cobalt proteinate, organic selenium, papaya, pineapple.


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## MyLOVEABLES!! (Aug 26, 2009)

Okay just so i don't sounds like the best quality food I can give is really bad oens lol here are the dog foods I can get in NZ.


eakanuba 
iams
pedigree
canidae
mightymix
Purina beneful
optimum
select 
home brand
Purina pro plan
Purina Tux
Hills
Royal canin 
Nutro
Champ
Ultra
Purina dog chow
Purina One

That's pretty much it.. If I remember anymore i will write back.. now i need to sleep. Zzzz


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## undergunfire (Aug 26, 2009)

I have to go to work right now, even though I am itching to post here!! I'll leave this and update more when I get home...


No corn, no by-products, and try to find a grain-free formula.


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## Mrs. PBJ (Aug 26, 2009)

When your feeding any food his target weight is not the only thing you take into acount.

His activity level. His age. His rate of consumtion and how offen he eats especially with raw.

If his target weight is 100 pounds I am going american measure so someone convert for me. He should get 2 percent of his bady weight in food a day. Witch would mean he would need 2 pounds of food a day. 

Noe if I had a less active dog I would only give 1 1/2 pounds. You can teak phoenix never gets the same feeding a day I teak base on her body and what we are doing that day. 

If you feed twicea day then I would spilt that 1/1/2 pounds up into two meals. You dont have to give the exact amount each dog is different just like each human. Me and my husband eat the same thing everyday yet I am gaining weight and he is staying the same. 

Oh if I had to choose beteen those I would choose

A -C I would not feed those other two for any reason.


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## irishbunny (Aug 26, 2009)

Hills is the best food you can get here anyway lol. My vets carry other food too, so I don't think they get paid just to carry Hills, it just is the best food.


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## degrassi (Aug 26, 2009)

I would feed one of the canidae grain free formulas, but even the formulas with grain in them are better then most of the other brands listed.


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## Flash (Aug 26, 2009)

I would choose A or the Canidae out of the bunch. Many of my clients use Solid Gold, Wellness, Innova and even Paul Newman's Organic has very good ingredients, Merrick. I use Wellnes for my cat and I could see a huge difference from the Iams she used to get.


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## undergunfire (Aug 26, 2009)

This is a really good website for dog kibble foods...
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=main

Raw feeding....
http://www.rawlearning.com/

Your dog shouldn't gain unnecessary weight off of feeding raw...if overweight, they should be losing weight to get to a normal weight (with regular exercise). I am contemplating feeding my cats raw, but I need to do a ton of research. If feeding raw...you really need to know what you are doing, so that your pet is getting all that they need.




Kat....2 pounds of food (even 1 pound), I personally think it way too much for any dog. I have never heard of feeding that much. I think most pet owners would be broke if they fed that much in a high quality food to a dog...I know I would! I'd spend $14 every 5 days...haha.


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## CKGS (Aug 26, 2009)

Canidae or Wellness are wonderful feeds.


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## Korr_and_Sophie (Aug 26, 2009)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> Kat....2 pounds of food (even 1 pound), I personally think it way too much for any dog. I have never heard of feeding that much. I think most pet owners would be broke if they fed that much in a high quality food to a dog...I know I would! I'd spend $14 every 5 days...haha.


The formula is 2-3% of the dogs body weight. It does include the bones and veggies (if you feed them). For a 100 pound dog, it is not a lot. If you buy the meat on sale or get some scraps from a butcher, the cost can be cut by a lot. There is no real reason to feed the best cuts to the dogs. Its not really much different than the amount of feeding kibble. Poor quality kibbles require you to feed as much as twice the amount of a high quality one. A dog could be eating 2 pounds of a poor quality food and not getting the nutrients needed.


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## undergunfire (Aug 26, 2009)

*Korr_and_Sophie wrote: *


> *undergunfire wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Kat....2 pounds of food (even 1 pound), I personally think it way too much for any dog. I have never heard of feeding that much. I think most pet owners would be broke if they fed that much in a high quality food to a dog...I know I would! I'd spend $14 every 5 days...haha.
> ...



I apologize....I went back and read Kat's post again and she was referring to RAW feeding...I didn't understand that (had to reread it a few times) - I thought she was talking about kibble feeding.


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## myLoki (Aug 26, 2009)

Thank you for this thread. I was feeding ProPlan but they have shrunk the bag and increased the price so I need new brand to try. 



t.


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## Mrs. PBJ (Aug 26, 2009)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> *Korr_and_Sophie wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *undergunfire wrote: *
> ...


Sorry in the mist of figure out how to get everyone from school. But yes 2 pounds of kibble god thats a lot


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## undergunfire (Aug 27, 2009)

Kat...I thought you were crazy :blushan:. I was like _"Holy buckets!!! 2 pounds of kibble?! I wonder how people afford that and how obese and stinky their dogs are!!!"_.

:biggrin2:


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## myLoki (Aug 27, 2009)

Ummmmmmmm........wow. My computer is messing up. I meant to post in the other dog thread. hahah!


t.


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## SunnyCait (Aug 27, 2009)

I was feeding Wellness Core, but switched to Solid Gold's Hunden Flocken formula. Then to Solid Gold's Wolf King, which I think my dog is actually allergic to bison (what in the world) so back to the Hunden Flocken which was really nice. 

I wish I could get ahold of Orijen without it costing me an arm and a leg.


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## undergunfire (Aug 27, 2009)

How about EVO, Cait? My dog does so well on it. I tried Wellness CORE before...but it is so expensive! Especially for the cats...its like $12 for 2lbs!! I think that Solid Gold is a great food, as well....I would feed that if I couldn't get EVO anymore for some reason.


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## SunnyCait (Aug 27, 2009)

I always buy the 15 pound bags, and I think the Core was $32, and the Solid Gold HF is $36. No one ever lets me rest about that. My roommate's dog eats Purina One (...) which costs him like $17 for a 30 pound bag. No one gets WHY I'm paying the 36 dollars for half that amount, they just can't wrap their brains around it. *mini rant* But yes, the stuff is definitely not cheap! I'd hate to have to feed a Great Dane or some larger dog like that haha. I'd be broke!

I think I'd actually like to try EVO... Because I'm not sure that it really is just the one formula of Solid Gold that she is allergic to. I just really didn't notice anything was wrong until we switched to the Wolf King formula. She seemed fine on the HF and was definitely fine on the Core... Now though you can really tell she has some sort of food allergy.


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## MyLOVEABLES!! (Aug 27, 2009)

Amy! I was wondering when you are going to post here!

I wonder if Evo, wellness, Origen etc ships to NZ lol.. But then again although its good would cost me a fortune!

And Kat yeah I feed him differently everyday, Luca gets 1hour to 1 1/2hr a day of exercise the less he exercise the less he gets.

so so far the best choice i should get is Canidae?
I was told to feed him once a day... I feed him twice a day, should I be switching to once a day or is twice a day alright? He gets half of what he should eat in a day in each meal just so people dont think i feed him twice as much haha.


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## Mrs. PBJ (Aug 27, 2009)

Be careful about canidae. they changed there formulia about a year ago and did not tell anyone they now put chicken by product. 

It was making ogs that had been on it for years sick. 

I feed fromm when I cant do raw its new on the seens but I like the ingredients. I dont think they even have a website.


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## undergunfire (Aug 27, 2009)

*MyLOVEABLES!! wrote: *


> so so far the best choice i should get is Canidae?
> I was told to feed him once a day... I feed him twice a day, should I be switching to once a day or is twice a day alright? He gets half of what he should eat in a day in each meal just so people dont think i feed him twice as much haha.



To be honest, it doesn't seem like you have good foods over there in NZ (without spending and arm & a leg). I think raw is your best bet. Just do your research, find a raw feeding forum....and go with that. Like I said, Luca shouldn't be gaining weight at all....you just need to adjust what you are feeding.


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## irishbunny (Aug 27, 2009)

What do ye think of this food for a puppy? It's a puppy food, I'll tell ye what it is after.

Raw Protein 30.00%, Raw fat 16.00%, Raw fibre 2.00%, Raw ash 9.00%, Moisture Content 10.00%, Minerals, Calcium1.5% Phosphorus 0.85%, Sodium 0.48%, Magnesium 0.09%, Iron 75 mg/kg, Zinc 70 mg/kg, Copper (Sulphate) 25 mg/kg, Selenium 0.2 mg/kg, Vitamin A 10.000 iu/kg, Vitamin D3 2.000 iu/kg, Alpha - Tocopherol (Vitamin E) 200 mg/kg, Digestible Energy 16.8 mj/kg


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## undergunfire (Aug 27, 2009)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> What do ye think of this food for a puppy? It's a puppy food, I'll tell ye what it is after.
> 
> Raw Protein 30.00%, Raw fat 16.00%, Raw fibre 2.00%, Raw ash 9.00%, Moisture Content 10.00%, Minerals, Calcium1.5% Phosphorus 0.85%, Sodium 0.48%, Magnesium 0.09%, Iron 75 mg/kg, Zinc 70 mg/kg, Copper (Sulphate) 25 mg/kg, Selenium 0.2 mg/kg, Vitamin A 10.000 iu/kg, Vitamin D3 2.000 iu/kg, Alpha - Tocopherol (Vitamin E) 200 mg/kg, Digestible Energy 16.8 mj/kg


You need to post the ingredients...I don't know what any of that means .


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## MyLOVEABLES!! (Aug 28, 2009)

yeah then I think after I finish the next 3 bags of dog food (1.8kg bag, 3kg bag and what's left of hills. I found out dad bought more lol) I will start the RAW feeding he should be at his ideal weight by then anyways so should be really really really good! RAW forums here I come!


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## MyLOVEABLES!! (Aug 28, 2009)

12 years from now I will be a trillionaire (sorry but I can't tell you how... but hint: it involves me taking over the world :grin2 ) I will have all the dogs I want, when I have my own animal rescue place etc I will import the world's best dog food for all my dogs (incld. all the rescues) But for now lol, I'll have to cope!


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## MyLOVEABLES!! (Aug 28, 2009)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> > What do ye think of this food for a puppy? It's a puppy food, I'll tell ye what it is after.
> ...


DITTO!


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## irishbunny (Aug 28, 2009)

That's all that's on the site...forget about it, thanks


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## undergunfire (Aug 28, 2009)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> That's all that's on the site...forget about it, thanks


Weird ! I wouldn't feed a food that doesn't list the ingredients on their website. Hopefully you can find a good food, though.


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## MyLOVEABLES!! (Aug 30, 2009)

maybe you should start on a raw diet too


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## Pekoe (Aug 30, 2009)

Realize this thread is pretty much done... but I just wanted to put in a plug for Orijen! We feed our two dogs this food, and it is great. We fed an average food before (Kirkland) and they did well on it, but on Orijen they are in perfect shape. People always compliment our dogs on how soft and shiny their fur is, and the vet says they are in perfect condition.


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## irishbunny (Sep 5, 2009)

K I got the ingredients because we bought the food, it was the most recommended to me on an animal rescue site so I think it must be the best I can get.

Ingredients
Maize, poultry meat meal, poultry fat, herring meal, maize gluten, full fat linseed, skim milk powder, egg powder, minerals, preserved with propionic acid, contains natural antioxidants.


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## missyscove (Sep 5, 2009)

You folks are probably going to want to hang me in the town square for what I'm about to say. 
I'm certainly no expert on the subject. I am taking an animal nutrition class, but we won't cover dog nutrition until later in the semester (I can tell you all about how to feed your cows though.) We did talk some about dog foods in my other animal science classes though.

Dog nutritional requirements are very similar to those of humans. In essence, a dog could do very well eating a portion of exactly what you eat. If every night you sat down to a family dinner and your dog got a plate full too, they'd do fine. Granted, we like dog food because it provides a complete nutrition that's easy for us to feed and that doesn't let the dog be selective.

There are strict requirements (at least in the US. I assume New Zealand has them too.) on what nutrition a dog food can provide. 
The list of protein, fat, ash, etc. that irishbunny posted is how you should be determining what your dog eats, IMO. Dogs have specific requirements for levels of protein, fiber, minerals, etc.

Basically, I don't care what sort of corn or soybean meal or chicken or chicken by products my dog is eating. 
I think it's great that we can take by products of human foodstuffs (soybean meal, feathers, etc.) and use them in animal feeds (be they for pets or for production animals). It creates more sustainable industries by using products that would otherwise go to waste.

My recommendation to you would be to go with absolutely any dry dog food. I recognize that some dogs have more specific requirements. That's what prescription dog food is for - dogs with allergies, diabetes, kidney issues, etc., but if you have a completely healthy dog, any dry dog food will be fine. Trust me, all your name brands of dog food go through rigorous testing to make sure they're providing your dog with complete nutrition. IMO, it's not worth the money to pay more for the same nutritional levels.


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## undergunfire (Sep 5, 2009)

I definitely disagree with you, Missycove.

While it is true ANY dog food will be fine for *some* dogs, this shouldn't mean that you should feed Pedigree, Purina, Hills, etc. Just like most humans can survive off of only eating McDonalds.....but why should you when there are healthy and not-so-expensive foods out there for you to eat?

This goes for any pet food. Why feed any ole feed when you can feed a higher quality and know your pet is getting the benefits of what a real food should be.


About feeding your dog a plate of your food...absolutely not. I have seen so many obese dogs that eat human food. Dogs don't need veggies or grains...they need *raw* meat, bones, organs......hence the reason why I am wanting to switch purely to raw after I do more research.


No offense, but they really should start teaching correct nutrition in vet school. You pay all of this money and you shouldn't be getting cheated on information.


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## MyLOVEABLES!! (Sep 5, 2009)

YUCK. This is why I think dog food can be disgusting!
as quoted "in the AAFCO Standard it is okay to use worm infested liver to put in dog food" YUCK.

I'm glad I'm gonna start raw/homecooked (although it requires a lot of research it's worth it. Plus Luca loves me cooking for him)


A MUST WATCH: All dog owners must watch and read all the other things on his website.

http://www.realdogfoodcomparisons.com/


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## Korr_and_Sophie (Sep 5, 2009)

Just because a dog can survive on a food, doesn't mean the food is any good for them. There are foods that are no better than the sweepings off the floor of slaughter house or cracker factory. 
I don't hear about dogs or wolves raiding corn and wheat fields. They cause problems when the kill a sheep or a dog kills a chicken. 

The AAFCO regulations are that a group of 8 dogs are fed a food for 6 months. The dogs cannot lose more than 15% of their body weight (the dogs must start at a good weight and it is an adult food). None of the dogs can die or be removed from the test due to nutritional issues. 6 of the dogs must complete the trial. It is not a long term trial and there are very few animals involved. All the dogs for all the different brands could be the same breed, so you don't know if the Large breed food was tested on large breed dogs. 
The meat in a food can come for just about anywhere. As long as it fits their nutritional requirements, it is ok. It could be a euthanized pet (chemicals included), road kill, animals that die from a disease or an animal that is slaughtered humanly. An ingredient labelled as 'meat by-product' could be anything that comes from an animal. 

There are strict rules about the order of ingredients. The ingredients that make up the most by weight go first. Many pet food companies split ingredients to make the meat appear first. They may put corn, corn meal and corn gluten meal. These are all corn, but when listed as 3 separate ingredients, it makes the meat appear higher on the list. 

I don't want my dogs eating feathers and feet just because they aren't used in human foods. Although a wolf or feral dog would eat the whole animal, it doesn't make it ok to just give the by-products. 

Low quality food have a lower calorie content. This means you could feed double what you would feed of a high quality food. For example, the food my dogs get (Acana Pacifica) has about 460 calories per cup while Pedigree is 330. For a dog weighing about 11kg, the amount needed varies by quite a bit. 

A dogs teeth are not designed for anything but meat. They cannot grind things like grains or veggies and therefore cannot get the nutrients from them. Their teeth can rip, tear and move the meat to be swallowed.


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## MyLOVEABLES!! (Sep 6, 2009)

*missyscove wrote: *


> You folks are probably going to want to hang me in the town square for what I'm about to say.
> I'm certainly no expert on the subject. I am taking an animal nutrition class, but we won't cover dog nutrition until later in the semester (I can tell you all about how to feed your cows though.) We did talk some about dog foods in my other animal science classes though.
> 
> Dog nutritional requirements are very similar to those of humans. In essence, a dog could do very well eating a portion of exactly what you eat. If every night you sat down to a family dinner and your dog got a plate full too, they'd do fine. Granted, we like dog food because it provides a complete nutrition that's easy for us to feed and that doesn't let the dog be selective.
> ...


I agree and disagree with you. Yes dog food companies go through tests that make sure food meet the nutritional values and standards, thing is those standards are sometimes just ridiculous... Like I commented before about the worm infested thing YUCK. Its like asking your children, "honey, while I have a nice steak for dinner you can eat corn and chicken beaks and feathers." But yes sometimes some people are silly to pay a _*heck*_ heap of money for fantastic dog food. This is why I now prefer homecooking. Its less hassle haha


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## missyscove (Sep 6, 2009)

I don't go to vet school - hopefully I will, but right now I'm just an animal science undergrad.

While we're on the topic of vets, I forgot to mention, Hills definitely does not pay vets to recommend their feed. They do, however, provide them science diet at a slightly cheaper price than you would pay in the pet store. All the vets I've worked with have said that they feel that science diet is a great feed that they would give to their own pets (or do, but some don't have dogs/cats.)

Mc Donalds is a great analogy because it isn't necessarily just a quality change - it's what you're eating. Humans shouldn't live off just burgers and french fries because then we wouldn't be getting the appropriate levels of vitamins and minerals that we need, not to mention our diet would have way too much fat in it.

I recognize that different feeds have different calorie contents and thus require different rations of food. That's exactly why they're required to print that information directly on the bag/feed tag.

The evolutionary structure of a dog's teeth may indicate to you that they can only eat meat, but their digestive system definitely indicates that they are omnivores and they can get their nutririon from grains and other plants if processed correctly (Don't freak out when you hear the word processed - just like cows get more nutrition out of cracked or ground corn than whole kernel corn which might come out looking just like it did when it went in). Domestic cats, on the other hand, must get the majority of their nutrition from meat.

The manufacturing of dog feed is probably about 10% what the dog needs and 90% what the consumer wants. The consumer wants a food that looks good, smells good and that sounds like what they would eat themselves when most of the time, the dog and its digestive system could care less. (Like how your dog would eat roadkill but you wouldn't want him to.)


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## undergunfire (Sep 6, 2009)

*missyscove wrote: *


> Mc Donalds is a great analogy because it isn't necessarily just a quality change - it's what you're eating. *Humans shouldn't live off just burgers and french fries because then we wouldn't be getting the appropriate levels of vitamins and minerals that we need*, not to mention our diet would have way too much fat in it.


Just like dogs/cats shouldn't be living off of corn ....which is what Pedigree, Hills, Purina, etc is mostly made of.

If I am going to pay money to feed my dog a commercial food....you better bet I want to be paying for MEAT...not corn and grains. 

I think a lot of us have experienced dogs on a lower quality food, then being switched onto a higher quality food.....the difference is phenomenal. My dog came to me on Pedigree....his craps were nasty and he went multiple times a day and he smelled bad. Switching over to Innova EVO (grain free)...and my dog is healthy, poops 2 times a day, and doesn't smell!

Dogs need meat, bones, organs......hence the reason why feeding raw makes more sense then feeding a commercial diet....it isn't natural for them to eat processed kibble. I know a lot of stuff isn't natural for any living thing now a days...but if we can feed a diet that mimics what dogs eat in the wild...then it just makes sense. I have heard so many happy stories from people when they switched over to raw!


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## fuzz16 (Sep 6, 2009)

Canidae and exclusive and wellness are all the best foods i know, and taste of the wild. wellness is super expensive but great for the dog. better the food, less they eat, and less the waste amount too. royal canin is a decent food. 

if you have a feed store around you they should carry these foods


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## undergunfire (Sep 6, 2009)

I wouldn't trust TOTW after what it did to my cats and the recent dog food issue on it. Canadea is fine, as long as it is grain free. Wellness is great, but the CORE is extremely expensive!

My feed store just got in "Earthborn"....it the grain free kind looks pretty good! I got a 1lb sample bag of the small dog formula (not grain free) and I have been using them as training kibbles...my dog loves them.


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## irishbunny (Sep 6, 2009)

My new puppy is on Royal Canin puppy, but we are switching her over to the food that has the ingredients I posted above, Red Mills Leader Puppy.


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## MyLOVEABLES!! (Sep 7, 2009)

It's interesting to see both side of the story about kibble.

I have Royal Canin around (common) and Canidae (from the good food list) but Canidae is really really expensive here, since they don't sell it in stores only the canidae site. 

I'm still not sure if I want to do raw since when i switch its dumb to switch back.


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## myLoki (Sep 12, 2009)

Anyone heard anything good about Wellness CORE dog food? They claim to be a grain-free protein focused dog and cat food. 

Opinions? :stikpoke

t.


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## MyLOVEABLES!! (Sep 12, 2009)

I heard lots about it but never actually tried it. Someone come and rescue?? hehe


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## undergunfire (Sep 12, 2009)

*myLoki wrote: *


> Anyone heard anything good about Wellness CORE dog food? They claim to be a grain-free protein focused dog and cat food.
> 
> Opinions? :stikpoke
> 
> t.


I really like Wellness CORE....but, it is waaaay too expensive for me to feed.

I always wondered about the cat formula, though. I have read/heard that cats shouldn't eat fish varieties of food..but yet CORE's only variety is fish from what I have seen.


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## MyLOVEABLES!! (Sep 12, 2009)

YUSSS!!!!! I found Orijen!!! Maybe i'll get it for X-Mas?


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## irishbunny (Sep 13, 2009)

So now my puppy is totally switched over to Red Mills Leader Puppy and seems to be doing great on it! My older dog we are switching to Royal Canin Senior or Red Mills Leader Senior. I'm going to wait till I can get to the pet shop and compare the ingredients. Sadly, I can't find a food that doesn't contain maize/corn, these foods seem to be some of the best.


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