# My future breedings, "no holes" clarification, etc...



## wendymac (Jul 9, 2012)

First of all, I posted my comments in the Rabbitry & Show Room section. Which is for breeders to discuss, well, breeding and showing (along with "what color", "what breed" threads). Is this correct, or is the discussion of breeding taboo?

For those that may not be aware, a rabbit has a time frame in which they can safely have their first litter, which (for my breeds) is around the 10 month mark. Whether a doe is only EVER going to have one litter, or she may be a brood doe, they have to be bred before a year old. So when you keep 3 does from your litter, and they get to that "breed now or never stage", they have to be bred. Breeders breed to improve their stock. You can't improve what you have without breeding.

Now, for those concerned because I'm going to breed 7 does from now until the end of the year, take a deep breath. I currently have a waiting list of people that want French Lops. Heck, Rosa sold without me even advertising her, and she'll leave when her babies are weaned. I'm not going to dump all those rabbits at shelters.

When I said I had no open holes, that's what I meant. But, like every time I've had a litter born, I had no holes. My solution? Buy more cages. Again, there's no way to improve your animals if you sell them off right at the 8 week mark. I want to hang on to every single one that appears to be what I need. And that means more cages. It doesn't mean dropping them off at a shelter.

Right now we have 20 Californian babies, all around 5 weeks old. 6 of those will be for my daughter's 4-H meat pen project. They will then be put up on the auction block at the livestock sale. However, because we're picking the 6 BEST babies, we'll be buying them back (paying just the commission to the fair board). The rest of those babies will be offered for sale...first as show and brood stock (they have some of the best bloodlines on the East Coast), then pets. Again, they will not be dumped at a local rescue.

I hope this clarifies things a bit. I also hope that pet owners realize that breeders don't breed just to sell babies (it would take quite a few years to recoup just a fraction of the $5k I've sunk into this hobby, from October until now!). And that good breeders don't take their culls to the local animal shelter.

We are allowed to talk about breeding in this part of the forum, aren't we??


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## MiniLopHop (Jul 9, 2012)

Wendy, I'm sorry that my question upset you. I was trying to keep things private and not start a fight. I get curious about things and I honestly wanted to know. Just because I am in rescue doesn't mean I don't get curious about the breeding side. I have learned a lot from the breeders here and love the baby pictures. I like to learn about how other people do things and the choices they make. I guess I'm just termanally curious.


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## wendymac (Jul 9, 2012)

Brandy, this wasn't aimed at you! I had a "nasty gram" from another forum member, so thought I'd clear the air. I don't mind questions, but name calling and accusations are another story. So I figured I'd post this, so everyone knew my intentions with my rabbits and my breeding program.

I did read the forum sticky on the purpose of this forum. If you're against breeding, then you're not supposed to post on here. And I think that probably means not sending inappropriate PMs to those of us that do.


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## majorv (Jul 10, 2012)

I agree, Wendy. I'm concerned about some of the critical remarks being made by other forum members about breeders. One thread in Housing & Environment, fromSunday night, comes to mind. I don't know ifthese attacks are directed at allbreeders or to those who sell their rabbits as pets. We've beenshowing and breeding show rabbits for about 4 years now. We don't often have "pet" rabbits that we need to place. We used to enjoy coming here and interacting with other breeders and helping pet owners with any problems they might have. But the attacks and remarks about breeders in other threads, and even in the rabbitry, have made me feel somewhat unwelcome. I guess noone has noticed that there are very few breeders who regularly participate in this forum anymore?


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## woahlookitsme (Jul 10, 2012)

Wow. . . I am appalled and I will stand right with you Wendy. 

We have two breeds currently. 20 cages outside and three inside. We are a VERY SMALL rabbitry compared to almost every other member in the American Rabbit Breeders Association. Some people say they are a small rabbitry with 50 holes/cages. I only WISH that I could have that much room for our buns. I would bring in TONS of ribbons and trophies if I could keep all of the good rabbits I produce. Breeders on the smaller scale learn to appreciate quality instead of quantity and we are actually applauded for it by bigger barns. All but two of our cages are full. We have five mommas with litters ranging from 1-5 babies. And two does that will be having their babies in about two weeks. We have some buns that will be sold to more show people in a little bit and most of those babies are for the 2012 ARBA Convention in Kansas. Where most will be sold to benefit show enthusiasts and their herd. I have never taken any of my rabbits that had to be sold to a shelter. 

Because of our space limitations we have to be very critical in what we keep and what we sell. But that also means that we are critical on who we breed and hope to produce nothing but a potential best of breed rabbit. 

You cannot get anywhere keeping a rabbit for only 8weeks in either of our breeds so we keep our babies longer and don't sell until we feel comfortable in the quality of rabbits we have chosen to keep. This means most of our babies stay with mom until the 2-3month mark because we are full on space. Even being kept together that long we have never had an accidental breeding of incest unless it was planned (only mother to son or daughter to father). 

I do not know what was said in the personal message but I seriously hope whoever sent it comes and reads this thread. If you would like you can also PM me and I can have plenty of discussions with you and would love to go back and forth on any concerns you may have. I think Breeders on the smaller scale are one of the best and much rather buying from them because you know they are concerned with quality and not just to make money. We make sure that we have enough room for the rabbits we produce and I already have 4-5 people on my waiting list for buns that haven't even been born. Don't make assumptions and please feel free to PM me


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## wendymac (Jul 10, 2012)

Exactly! There used to be a lot of breeders that were regular participants. Now there seems to just be a couple of us left.  

I just don't understand why people come into a BREEDER thread, and then bash the breeder. Nobody is forcing anyone to read anything. And nobody is forcing anyone to post something. And without the breeders and show people, who's going to be left to help people with the "Critique my bunny, please" threads and "what breed is my bunny". And most pet people really don't know what colors are what for each breed (and this includes me!). There's a lot of information that is being lost because of a few. 

*jumps down off soapbox now*


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## wendymac (Jul 10, 2012)

Yep! We have 20 cages outside and 1 inside. Plus we're building 2 large grow-out pens. While I don't keep the babies with their moms that long, I do keep the litters together as long as possible. And when I decide which rabbits (if any) are going to make the cut, I buy more cages. Right now I'm not sure that any of Adeline's will make it. I like Smokie and the one opal doe, but time will tell with those. Rose's are still too little, but I'll probably only keep 1 or 2 of them (if any). It would help if my breeds didn't produce 10 at a time, though! LOL 

Right now I'm debating on what to do with LaRew. She's at the 4 month mark (which was my original keep/cull age). Do I keep her to breed, and hope the buck puts a better hindquarter on the babies? Or go ahead and sell her? 

As long as the rabbits are well cared for, and they are sold/traded and not dumped off in local shelters, why is it anyone else's business if we breed or not?

I'm responsible for every rabbit I bring into this world. Whether it's to be kept, sold, traded, or given away (or another choice, that I won't mention here), you can be assured that they won't be populating the local shelters. 

No breeder takes breeding lightly. There are a LOT of factors that are planned and thought out long before two rabbits are bred. And that's not factoring in when to breed so it doesn't interfere with the shows (running into that now. LOL).

I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty certain that none of the breeders I know personally ever say, "Hey, let's breed these two mixes of unknown heritage together and then dump the babies off as pets or in shelters."


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## NorthernAutumn (Jul 10, 2012)

To clarify...
All discussion pertaining to breeding and care is welcome.

As per the forum decorum, the only stipulation is that we draw the line at fatal cull conversations in other parts of the RO forum. We discuss that delicate topic only here within the Rabbitry & Show Room. 

Novice breeders ought to be encouraged by ALL rabbit lovers to breeder for the betterment of the breed, and to breed responsibly. There are some top-notch breeders here on RO, who do an AWESOME job with their rabbits.

It is the breeders ESPECIALLY, who step up to the plate when someone naively puts their 2 buns together and "oops". It is the breeders that provide the necessary knowledge and care tips, and the encouragement to people to breed responsibly.

(Remember folks, all those neat little Dutches, lionheads, Flemish, blue Beveran, funny little mini rex, are the handiwork of dedicated responsible breeders - thank them for all of our wonderful breeds! )

********
Wendy, I am sorry that someone took the time to write you a nasty message. It is clear that they don't have an understanding of what it is to be a responsible rabbit lover and breeder (which you exemplify).


If any breeder receives inappropriate messages, please contact a moderator. There is no room for antagonism here on RO.


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## wendymac (Jul 10, 2012)

Thanks, Autumn. I wasn't going to say anything, but didn't want anyone else getting the wrong idea. 

When I use the word "cull", that just means "not keep"...not as in "no more bunny". I think I'm the only household with 3 men and all more squeamish than me. LOL

:what *gasp* You didn't mention French Lops in there! :sosad


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## NorthernAutumn (Jul 10, 2012)

My bad, I was mentally thinking about fatal cull. I should have been more specific. 
Fatal cull is the only topic restricted to rabbitry. 

I find that folks not familiar with breeding practices often assume the term cull means fatal - different audience, eh?

Thank you for the clarification!


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## woahlookitsme (Jul 10, 2012)

LOL or tans!! Thank you Autumn for your kind words.  I hope the breeder numbers turn around and more come back


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## NorthernAutumn (Jul 10, 2012)

Y'all are certainly doing a great job of holding the fort here these days  Thank you very much for taking the time to share your knowledge. 

I hope we see some more responsible breeders join... it is really such a great model for the inexperienced to be able to get input from the "pros"!


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## LindseyG (Jul 10, 2012)

I am so sad that someone attacked you like that. I think you are doing an amazing job with your flops. I am a small rabbitry here too. I am trying to breed for the best that I can. I started with a few and if they produce better than themselves some of them will sadly be going to a wooler home. I plan on showing my rabbits and making a name for myself so that someone wants to buy my rabbits. I hate that some people here don't understand. I know this is a mostly pet forum and that has almost made me shy away but the few breeders that are still here make me want to stay.


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## wendymac (Jul 10, 2012)

Thanks, Lyndsey. I'm just starting out too, and have a pretty thick skin. I just posted this before I got bashed by anyone else. LOL And don't abandon ship...there is safety in numbers. hehe

I'm used to using cull as just meaning "to remove". I come from a long line of horse folks, and that's how we use it.


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## woahlookitsme (Jul 10, 2012)

I hope you stay Lindsey! Dont be shy we must stand up for ourselves! 

Just be glad you dont have to compete with Betty Chu in California  LOL Im sure you will make gorgeous angoras!


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## LindseyG (Jul 10, 2012)

lol no betty chu rabbits here but there are some gorgeous rabbits. I'm sure if I would let my rabbit's wool grow out to be 12 inches they would look just like hers! Her rabbits are bred to not molt their wool thats why their wool is so long. They are gorgeous rabbits but i'm not ready to pay $500 for one junior. lol


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## Blaze_Amita (Jul 10, 2012)

That right there is a majority of the reason I stopped posting things like baby pictures or any doings in my rabbitry. I lurk around the site but keep quiet. I'm a smaller breeder with 40 holes, dedicated to mainly dutch, with 6 to New Zealands and 4 holland lops. I just try to avoid comfrontation. So I know at least a few of us other breeders haven't left completely, but we just don't post much at all anymore.


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## MyBabyHasPaws (Jul 10, 2012)

Well thats crap! I'm sorry some one attacked you (sticks tongue at whoever that was). 

I havent been here long, but from the little time I have been here I have been trying to keep up with your breeding program, it facinates me! From all that i've read you're very responsible and I would never think you would dump your buns at a shelter! 
I want to start reading blogs, but everytime I go to that section I get a little overwhelmed, dont know where to start! LOL!

I am not a breeder, and never plan on being one unless I get a farm like i've always dreamed of. Probably never going to happen lol. If it wasnt for this site I would be LOST as to what to do with the accidental litter I had. I cant stress how much you and other breeders (and pet owners) on this site have helped me.

So... THANK YOU for being such an awesome breeder and so willing to help us know-nothing-about-kits- people LOL!


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## wendymac (Jul 10, 2012)

How do you breed an angora so it won't molt?? And I don't blame you...there's no way I'd pay even half of that for a junior. Yikes!!

Maria, I'm just as lost as you are with the blogs! Heck, half the time I forget to even post in mine. hahaha

I know one thing, I'm glad I asked a thousand questions before most of the breeders left. 

And I found the PM a bit funny, because I don't want to breed Max or Trisha until shows are done. You can't show them when they're pregnant.  The other junior does I wanted to show at the PaSRBA Convention in February, and the Farm Show in January. 

And when I was told that there are thousands of bunnies in shelters that needed rescued, that I should rescue instead of breeding, I was thinking, "Yeah, and I'll just enter them into ARBA'S 'unknown breed' class." lol

To each their own.


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## woahlookitsme (Jul 10, 2012)

LMAO about unknown breed class!!! Oh how people amaze me and think we just breed to breed. Our rabbits arent gorgeous and bring in trophies/ribbons for no reason. There is so much to the show world that people don't even know about. Thats why I'm super excited to see the Bunny Fever movie showing at the Kansas Convention! If only it would come out in theaters! 

Oh and PS  You can show preggo rabbits up to the 14th day of their pregnancy and still be safe. Alot of breeders say it is a retired moms prime time to show.

Heather I have learned a thing or two from you and I hope you continue to be on this forum! I also loved seeing your adorable and interesting dutch babies. If only I could know on day one the quality of that baby and if it should be for pet or show. *ponders*


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## Blaze_Amita (Jul 10, 2012)

*woahlookitsme wrote: *


> Heather I have learned a thing or two from you and I hope you continue to be on this forum! I also loved seeing your adorable and interesting dutch babies. If only I could know on day one the quality of that baby and if it should be for pet or show. *ponders*


Even with the dutch you never do know! at least we can see our markings, but body type- eh not so much- I have learned that you can have two very typie rabbits that STILL throw not so nice type- and i'm still trying to learn color genetics these gray dutch drive me nuts trying to get ring pattern and then get a random one pop up that is awesome and there doesn't seem possible for a gray to have popped up. *shakes head* I still read posts, I've laid off the resuce part of my barn as I've never really been able to place any in pet homes down here in KY.


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## MyJuneAngel (Jul 10, 2012)

Sorry you received a nasty gram.  

I'm a pet owner. I don't understand the world of breeding but I'm definitely not going to bash it. Yes, there are tons of rabbits in shelters waiting for homes but pretty much every one of those is there because, somewhere down the line, they had an irresponsible owner... not breeder, owner. 

We had two surprise litters and boy do I feel awful about it. Yes, we found good homes for all of the babies but it wasn't easy and two of them have already been re-homed from their original homes. It is all beyond my control and that bothers me because I feel pretty responsible for them all. I can't imagine the responsibility that would come with breeding!


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## wendymac (Jul 11, 2012)

Bingo! It's the owner, not the breeder, that's responsible. We make every effort to sell our animals to other breeders and rabbit fanciers. I have only sold 2 as pets. Well, they were supposed to be pets, but now they're looking for another buck and doe to start breeding. GRRR! Those were sold as pets, without pedigrees, because they weren't breeding candidates. So now I'm starting to think of alternative ways of doing something with my pet quality rabbits...


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## MyJuneAngel (Jul 12, 2012)

I have known dog breeders to spay/neuter their pet quality dogs before selling them as pets to assure that they are not bred. I know this adds to the expense for you but it could be an option for those truly wanting them as pets, you have them altered and they pay for it as part of the adoption/re-homing fee... 

You know, that is one thing that really annoys me... when someone gets an animal as a pet and then decides to start breeding them. Breeding requires a lot of forethought and research and education on the species and breeds, not just throwing a couple of animals together.  

When our doe delivered her first litter I started doing some research on kits because I was clueless. All that I read scared the crud out of me! I am definitely not equipped to breed and I call myself blessed that we didn't have any major issues with the two litters that we were surprised with.


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## wendymac (Jul 12, 2012)

That really made me mad, too, because I stressed to them that they were PET quality (which is what they said they were looking for) and wouldn't make good brood stock. I sold them for $10 each. There's no way anyone around here will pay more than that for a pet, and if I were to get them all spayed/neutered I'd be out way too much money. 

I'm really enjoying the breeding part. Trying to figure out which ones to breed, which ones to keep, etc. Plus I'm VERY competitive, so love the showing aspect. Especially now that my "homegrown" stock are doing well.

I'm sad when I see the one or two that are not alive at birth, but it's not so bad (because I wasn't attached yet). What breaks my heart is losing one (like Pip Squeak) who died at 3 weeks.


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## majorv (Jul 12, 2012)

*MyJuneAngel wrote: *


> I have known dog breeders to spay/neuter their pet quality dogs before selling them as pets to assure that they are not bred. I know this adds to the expense for you but it could be an option for those truly wanting them as pets, you have them altered and they pay for it as part of the adoption/re-homing fee...
> 
> You know, that is one thing that really annoys me... when someone gets an animal as a pet and then decides to start breeding them. Breeding requires a lot of forethought and research and education on the species and breeds, not just throwing a couple of animals together.
> 
> When our doe delivered her first litter I started doing some research on kits because I was clueless. All that I read scared the crud out of me! I am definitely not equipped to breed and I call myself blessed that we didn't have any major issues with the two litters that we were surprised with.


I've mentioned before that we don't sell that many of our rabbits as pets. They're mainly sold asshow rabbits, but on the few occasions that we advertisea rabbit for a pet home we always get queries about wantingthem forbreeding ssd:.We will notsell pet quality rabbits for breeding!It's a dead giveaway when they ask for a pair!


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## wendymac (Jul 12, 2012)

Well, they bought a brother and sister. And they talked about getting the male (Opie) neutered.


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## majorv (Jul 12, 2012)

*wendymac wrote: *


> Well, they bought a brother and sister. And they talked about getting the male (Opie) neutered.


I wasn't referring to you. I was just relating our experience. You would think selling a brother & sister would be safe though.I dorememberwhat happened to my daughter's meat pen rabbits - the ones who got Reserve Grand Champion. The buyer asked us to deliver them alive because they wanted them as pets. Turns out they just put them all together and within 2 months the lone doe was pregnant (at about 4 months old). Of course, she had 2 stillborns because she was too young to be bred and because the two boys were her brother & half brother. I had to hold my tongue when the wife told me this because, well, they had paid $5,500 for them. :X They were really nice little Cals and we would've loved to keep them.


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## wendymac (Jul 12, 2012)

People can be so darn stupid! I am torn on this whole meat pen thing. We're going to use the best 6. On one hand I hope she kicks butt with them. On the other, I don't know what the commission for the sale is. If she does well, and they go high, I might have to pay a fortune to get them back. Or just breed new ones. I don't think meat pens sell for more than a few grand here, but even so, that could add up.

Maybe I'll encourage her to use 6 of the bucks. Then I wouldn't feel like I had to buy them back. 

My hubby won't butcher anything (we took the pigs, cow, etc. to the local butcher, alive, and he did it all and packaged it). I'm really not sure what else to do with the pet quality stock...


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## majorv (Jul 12, 2012)

I understand, but we did the meat penbecause we knew that there wasn't a lot of competition - usually 20 pens or less for our school district show - and if we placed high, the payout would really help the college fund! She made more with that meat pen than she didwithher 3 goats and 1 lamb!As long as you have the parents youcould try breeding again, that isif they do so well that you can't afford to buy them back.After all was said and done, we had6 left that were pet quality...but I can't say here what happened to them.


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## fantaysah (Jul 12, 2012)

I would love to breed and show and do all of th things you guys do BUT financially i couldn't afford all if the things i needed, i am not as patient as i should be and i don't have near enough knowledge ! I do however commend you guys not only for bettering the breeds but for the info you share. Don't worry about what anyone else thinks ONLY YOU truly know if your responsible or not and people who judge will only get the same in return.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Jul 12, 2012)

I think some people don't realize that it's very rare to find a PUREBRED rabbit in a shelter. 

And just because it might be purebred, doesn't mean it came from a breeder themselves. Were they born in a responsible breeders' rabbitry and then somehow, somewhere along the line, ended up in the shelter? Perhaps so. But the MAJORITY of breeders know how to keep their animals out of shelters. They take steps to prevent this. Either by taking the animal back and rehoming it, or by other means... which I was under the impression, that, even in this area of the forum, we were not allowed to discuss... Did the rules change? 

If people don't like what us breeders do, then they need to not come into breeder topics, or send breeders PMs and bash us. This forum is for breeders and pet owners alike. Don't forget that it started out as a meat rabbit forum.  

Emily


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## wendymac (Jul 12, 2012)

:yeahthat: I don't think we're to come right out and discuss the actual "other means", but not really sure. 

With that in mind, I wish we could have a separate forum area for "other means" discussions. It sure would help some of us that are looking for that kind of information...


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Jul 13, 2012)

wendymac wrote:


> :yeahthat: I don't think we're to come right out and discuss the actual "other means", but not really sure.
> 
> With that in mind, I wish we could have a separate forum area for "other means" discussions. It sure would help some of us that are looking for that kind of information...



I agree with this. It seems almost contradictory to encourage responsible breeding, but eliminate that very important side of things which is what makes many breeding programs responsible!

I have pet bunnies too, so I understand that many are just very loved pets.But learning about all sides of the hobby really brings a better understanding to how we can all control populations and provide adequate care for what we produce.


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## DharmaBuns (Jul 15, 2012)

I'm here! I stopped posting for awhile, but I plan on being more active here 

RESPONSIBLE (emphasis on that word) breeders should not be lumped in the same category of those that think that they can put Rabbit A and Rabbit B together just to get cute babies. It takes an incredible amount of time and energy figuring out which rabbits should be bred together and when.

I am also a very small rabbitry, about 20 holes. I only have one breed though, Tans. There really isn't a huge pet market for Tans unless people specifically seek them out and I actually wouldn't reccomend them for a lot of families. Because there ARE so many in shelters, I don't sell any as pets. I would sell to another trusted breeder, but I never sell pets.


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## woahlookitsme (Jul 15, 2012)

It also helps that Tans are not a marked rabbit and that all the babies are showable unless there is a major DQ 

Rarely sell my tans as pets but so many people contact me about them for pet purposes I end up telling them to do reading and link a bunch of articles they end up never replying back LOL


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## wendymac (Jul 15, 2012)

Well, Flops are all pretty much showable. I don't think there's an unshowable color, even, or if judges even look at the color. It's just, "Yep, it's a broken" or "Yep, it's a solid" type of thing. LOL But there are some that aren't quite show worthy. LaRew doesn't quite have the fullness in the hindquarters that she needs (for example). So I either breed her and see what her babies are like, sell her to someone else to do the same thing, or pet her out. 

Do you never get a Tan that doesn't quite have the build to be a contender?


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## woahlookitsme (Jul 15, 2012)

There is an old tan build and a new tan build. Older ones are more stocky and thicker boned. Joe Kim started bringing in the newer style tan that is thin and elegant looking and they became popular fast! There are some judges who only like the old standard but most go for the new standard. Of course everyone has their own opinion. I personally have a pet peeve for Hindquarters and don't like chopped tans. Im seeing that in this current litter and its not making me a happy camper. . .

Old Tan
http://www.planet-pets.com/rabt15.jpg

New Tan
http://bunnybreeders.angelfire.com/tan1.jpg


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## wendymac (Jul 15, 2012)

I like the look of the new tans. It's VERY distinctive. The old tans appear more along the lines of a commercial breed. 

Hopefully they aren't chopped and they'll fill out. *crosses fingers*


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## DharmaBuns (Jul 15, 2012)

*woahlookitsme wrote: *


> There is an old tan build and a new tan build. Older ones are more stocky and thicker boned. Joe Kim started bringing in the newer style tan that is thin and elegant looking and they became popular fast! There are some judges who only like the old standard but most go for the new standard. Of course everyone has their own opinion. I personally have a pet peeve for Hindquarters and don't like chopped tans. Im seeing that in this current litter and its not making me a happy camper. . .
> 
> Old Tan
> http://www.planet-pets.com/rabt15.jpg
> ...


I don't think that I would have loved the Tan half as much if it had the "old" look. I love how they look nowadays, so graceful and elegant. 

I really don't mean to throw this thread off topic but..do you happen to have a picture of really chopped hindquarters? I'm still fairly new to Tans and still difficult for me to evaluate a Tan rabbit without having a judge see it first and point out its flaws! lol


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## woahlookitsme (Jul 15, 2012)

I have a video ? The first rabbit isnt as bad but the second is Tango. You can see where after the hips she just chops off suddenly and it really affects her arch when she runs.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuAR5quPIEc[/ame]

Heres a video of her by herself running
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TQ5TQTxGfU&feature=relmfu[/ame]


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## wendymac (Jul 15, 2012)

I couldn't really see it in the first one, but definitely noticeable with Tango. Oh, and I like the way you yelled, "Mom, don't worry about him, film Tango" or something like that. LOL

Do they ever try jumping down off the running board?


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## woahlookitsme (Jul 15, 2012)

LOL I wanted to get a clear shot of each of them running down the table. We got it though in the end 

They do actually. . When they are babies I try to avoid that problem but after being at a show with all the excitement running in our backyard becomes boring and Tans love exploring new stuff. LOL sorry for taking this off topic


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## wendymac (Jul 15, 2012)

LOL! How do you keep them on the table, once they're bored of it? I can just picture you chasing down a bun that got bored and wants to explore. LOL


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## DharmaBuns (Jul 15, 2012)

*wendymac wrote: *


> LOL! How do you keep them on the table, once they're bored of it? I can just picture you chasing down a bun that got bored and wants to explore. LOL


I finally just had to put a barrier at each end of my running table to keep my Tans on there. Mine is also up against the wall too, so I only had to watch one side, hehe. 

I think I actually have seen Yankee in person at the last show I went to!


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## wendymac (Jul 16, 2012)

Smart thinking!!! I love the running breeds, but we aren't able to add another breed.  When we ever get our FL herd where it needs to be (so we can cut back on numbers) and our Cal herd where it needs to be, then I plan to get a running breed rabbit. Not to breed, but just to show. I like the tans a lot...with the Brits a close second.


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## woahlookitsme (Jul 16, 2012)

DharmaBuns wrote:


> *wendymac wrote: *
> 
> 
> > LOL! How do you keep them on the table, once they're bored of it? I can just picture you chasing down a bun that got bored and wants to explore. LOL
> ...



That is very possible. I sold her and her brother(union) to Maddie Pratt (now an ARBA judge). She is from MI. She just informed me that Yankee had 6 healthy babies 

Wendy! Ooooo you should add a running breed! I would have them all if I could!


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## MyBabyHasPaws (Jul 16, 2012)

*OakRidgeRabbits wrote: *


> wendymac wrote:
> 
> 
> > :yeahthat: I don't think we're to come right out and discuss the actual "other means", but not really sure.
> ...



Why did the forum transform? I am interested in learning this, not because I want to do it, but I also feel its a very important side of this whole industry and I would like to learn about it.


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## wendymac (Jul 16, 2012)

Maybe we still can? I'm not sure, but I do know when I just jokingly said I was going to eat Spaz, I was told that wasn't to be discussed.

Sarah, if I wasn't always scrambling to get cages at weaning times, I'd love to add one. The first running breed I saw was the Checkereds. I wanted one of them, until I was told by a friend that's been breeding them forever that they're big on biting, too. lol I love the coloring on the tans and the size of the Brits, so it'll be between those two. Eventually.


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## DharmaBuns (Jul 16, 2012)

*wendymac wrote: *


> Maybe we still can? I'm not sure, but I do know when I just jokingly said I was going to eat Spaz, I was told that wasn't to be discussed.
> 
> Sarah, if I wasn't always scrambling to get cages at weaning times, I'd love to add one. The first running breed I saw was the Checkereds. I wanted one of them, until I was told by a friend that's been breeding them forever that they're big on biting, too. lol I love the coloring on the tans and the size of the Brits, so it'll be between those two. Eventually.


Tans <3 I just can't say enough good things about them. They're just so wonderful! 

I would love to add English Spots to my rabbitry but I just don't have enough room. Every cage that had an ES in it I'd be thinking "Man..I could have had another Tan in there!" :biggrin:

And yes, I think I saw either Union or Yankee win Best of Breed. They were both absolutely stunning!


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## Nelsons_Mom (Jul 16, 2012)

I don't normally look in the rabbitry section, but seeing how popular this this thread was in the recent posts section, I thought I'd see what was going on.

While i am pro rescue, I'm not anti breeder. I'm anti irresponsible breeder (aka breeding animals of unknown origins, being careless as to who they adopt out to, etc). I dont feel like any of you here fit that bill and I'm sorry that you got attacked, Wendy.

I think sometimes in rescue people forget that the ultimate goal is for them not to have to exist. This is accomplished by educating owners and from ethical breeders such as you guys telling off the breeders who dont take pedigree, long standing health through multiple generations, and knowing where most of the litter is going to be placed prior to the breeding and other such standards.


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