# Buying vs. Adopting



## Katmais_mommy (May 9, 2011)

So, I work at a big chain pet store. All of my co-workers know that I'm a rabbit enthusiast and I know more about rabbits than any of the employees. 

My co-worker (who I dont like) asked me where to buy a bunny. I asked her why and she said that a few customers have asked if we(the store) sells them. We tell them no. So, in reply to my co-worker, I said yes, I do know where to buy them. She then asks where to buy them. She and I have always got along pretty well, but this is where my passion for rabbits kicked in. 

I said, "I know exactly where to buy them. I even know of a few breeders in the area. But I'm not going to tell you. There are far too many sitting in shelters. So, next time a customer asks about a bunny, tell them to check the animal shelters." 

She gave me the dirtiest look but I stood my ground. The store/company does not sell dogs or cats (or rabbits) because we advocate adoption. I thought it was only fair to advocate the adoption of shelter rabbits too. 

Whenever customers have come up to me in the past looking for rabbits, I tell them about the shelters that have a number of them. 

I'll be honest and say that I got mine from a breeder, for free, since she was a friend of a friend. But when I got them, I had no idea about the population of shelter rabbits and the horrible stories of domesticated rabbits being set free. I know that in the distant future, I would like to rescue a rabbit from a shelter. 

I'll say that I learn something new about rabbits every day, whether it's from this site or from a fellow customer I meet at work. I had NO CLUE what I got myself into when I got Kody and Katmai, but i dont regret any of it. It's hard work and time consuming. They require space, good diet, and lots of love. And when adults come into the store looking for a bunny for their child, I'm speechless. 

I know that *not all* children are "bad with bunnies", because it depends on both the child and the temperament of the rabbit. But I dont know that and I never want to take a chance, knowing that a rabbit's life may be at risk. I know that these parents dont mean any harm because they dont know how much work rabbits require. 

It also bothers me when I see that rabbits fall under the "Pocket Pet" category. I know alot of rabbit owners will agree with me when i say that rabbits are a lot like dogs. They require litter training, neuter/spay, and space. They also may require medication. All require nail clippings and check-ups. 

So, i was surprised to hear that a small herd of people came into my store, weeks after Easter, looking for bunnies. 

Most people also ask for a dwarf/small breed. To me, my Lionhead/Dutch mix rabbits are definitely the stereotypical small breed rabbits:jumpy/hard to handle type of bunnies. 

I've also noticed a pattern in the pet-owning area. Most parents buy their toddler a goldfish or betta fish. Then, they buy a hamster for their 6 yr old. Then, they buy a guinea pig for their 8-10 year old. Then they buy a rabbit for their "tween". Then they buy a puppy for their teen or for themselves as an adult. Honestly, I have no problem with this pattern. I think it is a good idea and a good way to ease a child into having a responsibility. As the child grows older, the responsibility grows slightly larger. In my opinion, i think this pattern provide a smooth transition. 

I'm not saying that i'm against buying. It's just that I like to promote adoption. Everyone has their own reasons for buying a cute baby or an adult pure-breed. I intended this to go towards the "bunniesare not little pocket pets to be kept in cages their entire lives"direction. 

It's sad to admit, but in my state, there is a rabbit network that is devoted solelyto taking in only domestic rabbits that have been set free by their owners. They dont take in rabbits from the public. It makes me sad that there are SO many rabbits there. My state has a lot of woodland. So people think it's okay to set them free. Luckily, this organization is dedicated to this one problem. http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/ 



*SO sorry for the rant. This was just an opinion so please respect it and feel free to disagreeI'll respect your opinion too I'm sorry in advance if I have offended anyone, because it wasnt my intent.I truly love everyone on here and I've always appreciated everyone's advice on my posted topics. :biggrin:*


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## rabbitgeek (May 9, 2011)

I accept your gracious invitation to respectfully disagree.

Adopting for money is buying a rabbit.

What is the difference whether a buyer pays $75 to a breeder or pet store versus $75 to adopt?

Money is changing hands. That makes it a sale.

Have a good day!
Franco Rios


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## Katmais_mommy (May 9, 2011)

*rabbitgeek wrote: *


> Money is changing hands. That makes it a sale.




You make a very good point. Personally, I would prefer to spend the $75 *for example*, on a rabbit that has been rescued by an animal hoarder rather than spend $75 on a rabbit from a breeder. 

This might sound odd, but I would rather like to rehabilitate a "damaged" rabbit. Whether it be a physical or mental damage, I love a good challenge.


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## rabbitgeek (May 9, 2011)

Should an average, first time rabbit pet owner take their chances on getting a "damaged" rabbit? 

I've heard some stories about adopted rabbits that wind up costing hundreds of dollars in vet bills.

I'm sure that is not what these buyers were expecting when they tried to help out a rescue bunny.

Have a good day!
Franco Rios


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## TinysMom (May 9, 2011)

*Katmais_mommy wrote: *


> *SO sorry for the rant. This was just an opinion so please respect it and feel free to disagreeI'll respect your opinion too I'm sorry in advance if I have offended anyone, because it wasnt my intent.I truly love everyone on here and I've always appreciated everyone's advice on my posted topics. :biggrin:*


First of all - thank you for your post. As a breeder, I may disagree with parts of it- but I do understand where you are coming from.

As a moderator, I want to point out to all reading this that we have a policy to "agree to disagree" and while we welcome discussions....we always want to respect the right of the other members to have different opinions. 

I think it is great that you support rescue - my heart bunny that lives in my bedroom is from a rescue...and I love him dearly. 

As you've probably noticed - our forum is breeder-friendly and very pro-rescue. Somehow we try to mesh the best of both worlds.

Unfortunately - if you live where I live and want to rescue a rabbit - you have to drive over 200 miles one way to get one. Rabbits are not turned into animal shelters here (I've asked...they won't accept them because I had wanted to volunteer to help!). So ... if you want a rabbit - you buy from an unethical breeder who sells them too young (usually at the flea market that is about a mile from the Mexican border) - or you buy them from hopefully an ethical breeder.

Unlike many breeders in Texas - my herd is kept indoors -in air conditioning. This means that when someone wants to adopt from me - I have several questions we discuss before I will consider selling them a rabbit. I bred flemish giants to be COMPANION rabbits - not meat rabbits and not outdoor pets (it gets up to 100 in the summer).

Anyway - I'm glad you felt you could share...and I hope you know that even though I'm a breeder - I respect and value your comments.

:biggrin2:


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## Korr_and_Sophie (May 9, 2011)

*rabbitgeek wrote: *


> I've heard some stories about adopted rabbits that wind up costing hundreds of dollars in vet bills.


Any rabbit from any situation can have vet bills. Rabbits from breeders, pet stores, rescues, and any other source can have health problems. Not to mention the routine vet bills like check ups and spay/neuter which can run into the hundreds like any other medical treatment. 
I have a lionhead who I got for free from a breeder (she was free becasue she is a pet and I do know the breeder before I got her). While she has not have any health problems, she has still cost about $380 at the vet to get spayed. While the 2 I adopted from the humane society have had health issues which cost a couple hundred each plus the cremation and ceramic paw print (not cheap either). 

You really need to know what you are getting for the money you spend no matter where you are going. A rescue will probably be spayed or neutered and healthy checked by a vet, but you to take your chances with the health as the history of the rabbit is not usually known. With a breeder, the rabbit is intact and not usually vet checked, but you do get the know where it comes from and can see where it has lived and been raised. Some breeders do have health guarantees and you go back to the breeder of something does happen. Staying in contact with the breeder can also be good of there is a genetic issue that pops up later so the breeder can make changes to the breeding program to avoid these issues if future rabbits. If you go to a pet store, there is usually no guarantee that is worth much. While they might take them back if they are sick, they will probably just sell it again or do other no so good things. Pet stores have no info on where the rabbits come from (and most don't care anyway), so you have no idea of the history however young the rabbit is. 

I think that people really do need to be able to make an informed decision on where they get a rabbit. While a rescue can be good, it is not for everyone. Breeders can also be good, but like anything there are good and bad ones. 
One thing I really do hate is when one group attacks the other based on the actions of a few bad individuals. People need to know the good and bad of all options from unbiased sources. 

It is really about educating potential rabbit owners about the care and where they can get a rabbit. Educated people tend to make better decisions than those who just decide they want one and go get it that day.


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## DIpitydane (May 9, 2011)

I feel about bunnies just the same as I do dogs, cats, birds, etc, etc, etc...You have two GOOD options in my opinion...you can either adopt a rescue which obviously saves a life, or you can buy from a REPUTABLE breeder, thus supporting ongoing efforts to preserve breed standards and health. I believe both are of benefit to bunnies or any other critter for that matter.

Unless you are against the owning of bunnies as pets altogether, there must be good breeders to carry on the genetics and maintain the standard for each breed....all the breeds we know and love of any species will go extinct while we wait until the homeless ones are all adopted. It is for this reason I do not buy into the whole, "Don't buy while they die" mentality. That said, I do not agree with just breeding for the sake of breeding...pet bunnies should be one of the wonderful side effects of a breeding program that produces animals as close to the standard as possible while maintaing health and soundness. Standards are made to keep a Flemish looking like a Flemish...and a ND looking like a ND...without standards to follow a breed could evolve over time into something that doesn't even resemble what it should.....this is what happens to dogs in the case of bad breeders and is why you get purebred Beagles that look like Dachshunds, or Chihuahua's that weigh 10lbs. The standard must be adhered to for a breeder to be considered reputable.

So generally speaking, if it were me(an it is not) I would recommend both and explain why each is a good thing. Prospective owners definitely need to be made aware of shelter animals period...BUT, it's also mutually beneficial to the animals for people to be made aware of what makes a good or a bad breeder. That way, should they decide they DO want a purebred, they have the power of knowlege in their favor. Some people no matter what, want a specific breed because of temperment traits, size, etc....and better that they are given the insight to what a good breeder is, rather than just not bringing it up in an effort to promote shelter pets instead.

Anyway, wow, I typed a lot....bottom line...support shelters and good breeders only with your money...if we all did this, bad breeders wouldn't have cause to exist.


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## Katmais_mommy (May 9, 2011)

I agree, no matter where you get your rabbit, it may cost you some vet bills, whether it is a shelter bun or from a reputable breeder. I think it may come down to research and knowledge of owning a rabbit. I got my rabbits from a breeder and Katmai's vet bills to date has reached almost $800. 

Franco, where I am from, we have a Rabbit Network run by very knowledgable rabbit people. In my opinion, I would recommend this place to a "First Time owner". This place rehabilitates injured rabbits back to health in order for them to be placed in homes. Since I am not a newbie, I would go to a shelter or my local SPCA for a rabbit. 

TinysMom, I'm glad that this site is pro-breeder and pro-adoption. And I'm also glad that the site is pro-outdoor and pro-indoor. I hope I didn't offend you, as I have always appreciated your advice and comments in the past.  I also appreciate your insight on the topic. 

PS: Money is never a matter to me when it comes to any kind of animal. Franco made a point that both options are technically sales. I know this will sound weird, but personally, I would choose a scarred or earless rabbit over a cute baby rabbit. 

Also, my sister almost adopted a Jack Russell Terrier with terminal cancer. She makes a lot of money from her job and wanted to give it a comfortable passing. Unfortunately, her landlord wouldnt allow a dog. I was just proud that she even opted to adopt this dog instead of a puppy from a pet store.

I hope that was a good analogy. Me and my sister are weird when it comes to animals. I would be the type to adopt a 3-legged dog. 

In my opinion, I would recommend the House Rabbit Network to a first timer, as there aren't any breeders in the area. And maybe an experienced owner to a shelter.


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## slavetoabunny (May 9, 2011)

*rabbitgeek wrote: *


> I accept your gracious invitation to respectfully disagree.
> 
> Adopting for money is buying a rabbit.
> 
> ...


The major difference is that when you pay a rescue, all you are basically paying for is a hugely discounted spay or neuter. My rescue charges $55 for an adoption fee and it costs us $65 for the surgery. If the person paid the same amount of money to a pet store or breeder, they would then also incur hundreds of dollars to have the rabbit neutered.


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## JadeIcing (May 9, 2011)

Ditto to Patti.


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## Marrie (May 9, 2011)

My rabbit cost $10 to adopt and came with a carrier which cost way more than $10, they didn't make up the money they gave him in food or anything. They just put in a small fee to avoid the people who want "free" rabbits. There is no profit in a shelter, like with a pet store. I always recommend a SMALL rehoming fee to people who are rehoming their pets, it just helps weed out some of the less savory characters that browse for "free pets". 

That being said - I have bought animals from breeders as well. A GOOD breeder (one that thinks of the animals as more than just $$$) is fine - I do tend to recommend people don't buy from pet stores though as often the animals come from mills (though there are exceptions to that rule). 

My parrot came from a breeder, I drove all the way to another state to find a respectable one that I trusted, 8 hours total drive non-stop to pick him up. I was a bit wary of a rescue, as I wasn't sure I could handle a biter or a plucker, but ultimately the reason I didn't rescue is that the rescue for birds is 3-4 hours away (one way) and they required us to drive up there at least 4 different days and it just wasn't possible. 

As for vet bills being possible no matter where you get the animal, completely agree. My cousin got a dog from a pet store - it got sick a week later, $500 in vet bills later, it died. I know someone who got a bird from a well respected breeder - it got sick after a month or so and cost thousands in vet bills to get it healthy. No fault of the breeder, who offered to take the bird back, it is just impossible to guarantee no animal you sell will get sick. 

My adopted bunny came litter trained (though the shelter didn't do it), knows the word "no" and doesn't chew much. He's been friendly and sweet and well behaved. Animal I adopted before this bun was a dog and she came so well trained she caught a chicken in her mouth that the other dogs were trying to kill, brought it to me unharmed (though a bit shaken) and gave it up when asked. 

There is a rabbit rescue near me that adopts out their buns from foster homes - they spay/neuter them, litter train them, train them to behave as house bunnies all before they allow them to be adopted out. If a family wanted a well behaved bunny, I would send them there. 

I see no problem with advocating adoption if that is your stores policy on other animals anyway - why should rabbits get lesser treatment than a dog by the store employees?


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## Yurusumaji (May 9, 2011)

I want to point out that getting a pet from a breeder or store may also be preventing that one from being yet another rabbit that winds up in the shelter. There are so many variables that can be considered to defend your choice in where you purchase your rabbit.

However, I also want to say that it's important to remind people that adoption is an option. So many people don't even know that shelters have rabbits waiting for homes or even that there are rabbit-specific rescues out there. It's really great that you inform them of this option. They may still decide to get their rabbit from a breeder or pet store, but I'm sure others will at least look into their local rescues and possibly find a rabbit they truly love.

Like the OP said, they didn't even know about rescues when they got their rabbit. Maybe you would have enjoyed knowing that. There is a thin line between informing someone of a new option and trying to badger them into it, though. So always be careful with the way you present yourself to these people. You catch more flies with honey.


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## Nancy McClelland (May 9, 2011)

Either way is a viable option--shelter or breeder, depending on your reasons and desires. And as Tiny's Mom says we have the "agree to disagree" as long as it doesn't become personal or attack oriented. My favorite quot on this is from the French philosopher Voltaire--"I may not agree with what you are saying, but, I will defend to the death your right to say it". I personally favor a bunny from a shelter unless you're gonna breed and are shooting for specific characteristics. Shelter bunnies come with a cost factor usually much less than just the cost of neutering and are usually socialized and have been checked over for any problems. However, we do live in an imperfect world so nothing in life is guaranteed. We know personally that shelters lose money--we have rescued a bunch and let a few get adopted from us and our cost for each rescue just on vet bill is over $200. Add in food and essentials, a hutch, and incidentals and I am sure it goes well over $300. But we get the satisfaction of knowing we helped an animal in need--that's what counts the most right here.


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## DIpitydane (May 9, 2011)

I'd like to throw in also that we should not forget the differences in "breeder" and "petstore"....and not all breeders are equal either. The only bunny I'd ever "buy" from a petstore was one there for adoption thru a reputable rescue. A good breeder does not in general sell buns thru a petstore. A good breeder also does not breed to turn a profit and knows that when every effort is put forth to ensure a good specimen in health and conformation, money is generally lost rather than gained.


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## Djakarta (May 9, 2011)

If a person has never had a rabbit as a pet before, I will usually recommend they contact the local House Rabbit Society. 

The adoption application allows a potential adopter describe, in great detail, the type of rabbit they are looking for. Not only can they specify the age and breed, they can describe the personality they want and the manner in which they hope to interact with their rabbit.

Most HRS chapters have a roster of foster bunnies, but they may also have contacts with the local shelters and can pull rabbits from them as well.

If your area doesn't have a HRS chapter, you can work with the shelters, directly. A great option for a first time rabbit family is to offer to foster a rabbit. There is usually a short term commitment ( 6 months is usual).

The shelter will provide any vet care necessary during the time frame. Many will supply cages and initial supplies.

Fostering can be a great way to see how a rabbit will integrate into your household.


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## OakRidgeRabbits (May 9, 2011)

Katmais_mommy- I think you bring up a very good point. And that is that the most important thing when choosing a pet is ensuring that you find the one that is just right for you! Finding the color, personality, breed, and characteristics that you desire in an animal will make your bond so much stronger and pet owning will be so much more rewarding.

I totally understand where you're coming from on the adoption end, it is sad that there are so many pets that end up in shelters. However, one way to stop that from happening is to make sure we do our best to educate and help new pet buyers.

If the buyer is not interested in adopting or just isn't able to find what they're interested in at the shelter, purchasing from a reputable breeder may be the best option for them and their pets.

First of all, have a little faith in us (reputable breeders).  I go through a selection process similar to shelters: talking to the buyer, figuring out what they want, matching a rabbit to their situation. We don't just sell rabbits to anyone, we're not (irresponsible) pet stores or dealers! We take care in placing our rabbits in the best homes possible so referring someone to us is a-okay as well!

Likewise, I highly recommend making connections with the reputable breeders in your area. Talk to them, learn about their sale policies, and find a few who you would be willing to refer buyers to. By developing a relationship with the breeders, you may be able to help place buyers and rabbits to make the best match.

I think together we can all be advocates for more responsible pet ownership!


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## Katmais_mommy (May 10, 2011)

Julie, thank you for making me feel more comfortable about reputable breeders and breeders in general. 



All of you have very interesting points and opinions and I'm glad this turned out to be a positive and insightful discussion. When the next customer comes into my store, I will make sure to steer them in the right direction instead of shutting them out completely. Thanks again


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## TinysMom (May 10, 2011)

This is the letter I send out to potential parents for my babies....just to show you what I do as a breeder.

The red information needs to be changed as it is about the prior litters I was selling.

[line]*If you would prefer to talk over the phone - please feel free to call me. I am sorry if my questions seem a bit nosy but I really put a lot of time and effort into my rabbits and it is important to me that they go to a good home where they won't be abused (even by accident). 
*

Hello! I wanted to take a moment and reply quickly to you about your interest in our flemish giants. I have a few questions that I ask before selling any rabbits (I ask everyone - not just you). My rabbits are raised in my home and are like "kids" to me (in fact - we sometimes call them "kids" when they're out playing). Therefore, it is important to me that I find the right home for the rabbits and match the right rabbit to the right home (they really do have such different personalities).

Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer these questions....

*Are you looking for a male or female?


Will the rabbit be living inside or outside?


What type of cage arrangements do you have (or are you willing to make) for the rabbit? (Please note that they can not live on wire flooring - I use extra large dog crates for them and then let them have playtime in the house. A hutch outside would work IF the floor was not wire).


How many children and what ages are in the home? 


Who will be providing the main care for the rabbit?


Do you have a source locally for buying pellets and hay?


What other animals will be around the rabbit?


Have you ever had a rabbit before?


Have you done any research about having rabbits? If so...where/what?


Why are you interested in a flemish giant?


*Now for some information about me and my flemish giants....

I am a fairly new breeder to flemish giants - but I've had them as pets for over 4 years. My flemish giants are raised in my home and when they are young - I frequently spend an hour or more per day with the litter to socialize them and let them play. They have grown up around our two dogs and two cats and will frequently jump over them or climb over them to get around them. They are fairly comfortable with humans - BUT - they are temperamental also. Some of them like to cuddle - most of them prefer to come to you for some pets when you're sitting on the floor. A couple are "kissers". 

The rabbits that I will be selling as pets are being sold that way for one or more of several reasons - it could be that their ears are lopping a bit and they haven't yet gotten ear control (or may not have good ear control). It could be that they are going to be small for flemish giants (the most common reason). It could be that their coat color isn't what I want for the rabbits for show and breeding. None of these issues are "health" issues but are instead ones that affect the rabbit's ability to be shown and make weight - or pass on characteristics to offspring.

*The light gray rabbits were born on December 24th, 2009 - and they are over 3 months old. This means they will not be itty bitty babies when you get them - I need to observe them until 3 or 4 months of age to determine who is showable.

The steel litter was born 3/11 and will not be ready to go for sure until June 15th - but some of them MAY be available by mid/late May depending upon how the weaning process goes. I will not sell rabbits before 8 weeks of age.
* 
Anyway - if you would prefer to call me and discuss these questions rather than type them out - you can call me weekdays after 2 pm at 

I hope you understand the reason for these questions....I pretty much raise these animals like my own pets and I want to make sure they go to a home that fits their personality so they will be happy and you will be happy.


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## Pipp (May 10, 2011)

Yes, the MAJOR difference is that a rescue bunny will be speyed/neutered, and this will stem the flow of unwanted rabbits. The rescue rabbits also have a better chance of being healthy and socialized. 

Keep in mind there is a difference between shelters and rescues. The shelter/animal control bunnies are probably more in need (they are routinely euthanized) but they're unlikely to have had a lot of vet care or socialization, and they're not as likely to be speyed/neutered, which is something pretty essential to their future health and behaviour. Reputable rescue groups will provide all this. 

If you want to save a life, go to a shelter. If you want to get a good assessment of a rabbit's health and personality (and maybe free up room for a rescue to take in a in-danger shelter bunny) and be able to give the rabbit back if it doesn't work out (with no refund of course), and get a rabbit already speyed/neutered or with a vet coupon to get it done for a discount, look for a rescue. 

Petfinder.com is a great source. 

If you want to take a chance on a cast-off but likely help a rabbit in danger of being set loose, look on Craigslist. 

If you're someone who knows enough about rabbits to want certain characteristics found in certain breeds, or you want a 'show bunny', then look for reputable breeders who know their rabbits, breed out defects, don't sell them before they're eight weeks old and will take them back if the new owner can't keep them. 

The worst option is a pet store. The rabbits are most often from rabbit mills, they're sold way too young, they're unhealthy, mis-sexed and never sterilized, the staff knows nothing about how to care for them, nor can they educate the buyer. And if something goes wrong, you're on your own. 


sas :bunnydance:


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## Watermelons (May 10, 2011)

I do support shelters, and rescues, but NOT the SPCA here, their nothing but a giant money pit.

I will admit I went to a backyard breeder for my bunnies. I tried to support a local rescue but none of them bothered to e-mail me back or answer my phone calls. And forget it about the SPCA, their only in it for the money, when the price of a rescued dog hits 500$... something is wrong. Plus I would much rather get a rabbit that hasn't been fixed yet, only because I want to know it was done by a GOOD vet, and NOT on the cheap because its a rescue. I know how rescue spays/neuters are done compared to other pets, and especially animals getting fixed at the SPCA clinic. Far to many problems arise. 
I'm still miffed none of the rescues bothered to contact me back, but regardless I love my little bunnies and I think I'm happier getting them from a little breeder.
There are SOME, and i mean a seldom few, that know what their talking about at a petstore. I used to be one of them selling bunnies in a petstore, we made sure all the animals went home with proper housing and care items, the rabbits came from small breeders not mills. My first bunny was from the store. And honestly, I've found plenty of rescue staff that know nothing about what their talking about, it pains me to listen to them go on sometimes.

So I'm on the fence I guess. Both Rescues and Pet stores have a lot more work to do.


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## truvy (May 10, 2011)

As much as I believe in adopting from shelters, I feel like with animals in general, its the whole "chicken or the egg" thing. Pet stores will always supply pets, people will always give up their animals (resulting in a forever supply of shelter animals), breeders will always breed, and people will always own pets. That probably won't change. So yes, you can go adopt a bunny, but either way, the bunnies are living in a cage until someone rescues them. The only problem I have with pet stores is the abuse that goes on behind the curtain. If you've ever seen those videos of the people who "raise" the baby animals before they go to certain stores, I'm sure you were horrified. For that reason, I don't agree with pet store animals. But, no matter where an animal came from, it always has the potential to end up homeless or dead. It's up to the owner to save that animal, no matter where it came from. But obviously, the shelter animal will be euthanized first, so if you're looking for a specific order in which to save the animals, go to the shelter first.


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## buns2luv (May 10, 2011)

"buying" (adopting) from a shelter and paying say $75 is actually paying for their spay/neuter as shelters get them s/n before adopting them out.


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## OakRidgeRabbits (May 10, 2011)

Pipp wrote:


> Yes, the MAJOR difference is that a rescue bunny will be speyed/neutered, and this will stem the flow of unwanted rabbits.Â  The rescue rabbits also have a better chance of being healthy and socialized.



I am not sure how this will come across in text, so I just want you to know that I am only curious and don't mean to be condescending.  Why do you feel that rescue rabbits have the highest chance of being healthy and socialized? And which group(s) of rabbits are you comparing them to?


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## Watermelons (May 10, 2011)

*buns2luv wrote: *


> "buying" (adopting) from a shelter and paying say $75 is actually paying for their spay/neuter as shelters get them s/n before adopting them out.


But rescues have deals with clinics, they dont pay what we pay, it might cost them all of 20$ to get a bunny fixed, if that, sometimes its free because its such a small animal, but this leads back to what I said, its not the best job. You get what you pay for. Another reason I would rather adopt an un-fixed animal so I know the job gets done properly.


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## buns2luv (May 10, 2011)

We foster for a rescue and bring in lots of rescue buns to be neutered. It costs $200 to $400 around here to s/n a bunny. I have seen the bills each time we s/n a rescue bun and it is close to the adoption fee they charge.


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## Marrie (May 10, 2011)

I know plenty of rescues that don't have deals with clinics on vet fees - they just aren't big enough for the clinics to want to enter business with. Some of them pay hundreds for vet care on an animal, then adopt them out for a fraction of the cost. Humane societies typically have low-cost spay/neuter and some shelters/rescues have deals that let vet med students do them for practice, but not all of them have that resource, especially not for exotics. 

I know one lady in England who runs a rescue out of her home. She pays full price vet care and rehomes for free once they are healthy. If they are disabled or special needs and she doesn't find a home that can take care of them, she keeps them. 

The rescue near me takes a loss on every rabbit adopted out - so does the shelter. But they don't care. Neither practices euthanasia on their rabbits either, though. And both have pretty low adoption fees. 

But I will agree I don't really like the "low cost" spay/neuters either, my grandmother had to go that route for her dogs, there was a lot more worry and after-surgery care. 

My area is thankfully cheaper for exotics care than most - $95 for a neuter, from a vet I trust.


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## slavetoabunny (May 10, 2011)

*Watermelons wrote: *


> *buns2luv wrote: *
> 
> 
> > "buying" (adopting) from a shelter and paying say $75 is actually paying for their spay/neuter as shelters get them s/n before adopting them out.
> ...


"We do have a rescue rate with a vet clinic and we pay $65. Our adoption fee is only $55, so we actually lose money. Of course, we aren't in this for the money. I should also add that this is the best rabbit vet in town. I bring my own pet rabbits there. Just because the vet discounts for rescues doesn't mean you receive substandard care.


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## buns2luv (May 10, 2011)

And the additional $ from the adoption fees gets kept for all the ill/injured bunnies. We just took one into rescue that needed it's rear leg amputated.


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## annaszeus (May 10, 2011)

that is another reason I got my Zeus. I firmly believe in adoption and rescue and sorry but the poor baby sitting alone in a small cage on top of everything. I couldn't resist. The lady brought him back saying she didn't realize how much of a responsibility it was to take care of a rabbit. I mean come on. She honestly didn't need a pet to begin with.


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## Yield (May 10, 2011)

[align=center]I have experienced my fair share of rabbits from shelters, and I have to say most of them are very great. 

I also try to support adoption as much as possible. I usually get on a rant about rabbits and adoption to people and they're like ":rollseyes" 

I mean, my three rabbits ranged from 20-35 bucks, and they came spayed/neutered. They haven't had problems aside from my own mistakes, and they're all pretty friendly.

I don't think I'll ever buy from a breeder (not because I do not like them, just because I don't really care about breed, only saving them and all.) I enjoy the feeling of rescuing rabbits. And they come fixed. That's probably one of the biggest things for me. I don't want any unspayed/unneutered bunnies. XD

Nobody take offense to this post. All my posts always come out offensive when I don't mean it that way


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## TinysMom (May 11, 2011)

*Katmais_mommy wrote: *


> *SO sorry for the rant. This was just an opinion so please respect it and feel free to disagreeI'll respect your opinion too I'm sorry in advance if I have offended anyone, because it wasnt my intent.I truly love everyone on here and I've always appreciated everyone's advice on my posted topics. :biggrin:*



I've somewhat enjoyed this discussion - but something that I think is funny is that folks will often say they'd never go to a breeder to get a rabbit....yet they seem to think nothing of coming on here and going to the rabbitry area and getting advice / input from the breeders on here.

:biggrin2:

I haven't gone through the list of names on here or anything like that to see whose gone to the rabbitry....

I just think its...interesting. I'll leave it at that.

Oh wait - that reminds me - I have some rabbits here that I "rescued" from the feed store because they were adopted rabbits that were dropped off...

Anyone want one?

:big wink:


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## OakRidgeRabbits (May 11, 2011)

buns2luv wrote:


> And the additional $ from the adoption fees gets kept for all the ill/injured bunnies.



Similar to a shelter or rescue, reputable breeders aren't in it for the money either. Proper care of rabbits is expensive, I'm sure everyone here can attest to that!

Although rabbits are not generally spayed or neutered coming from a breeder, the money doesn't exactly go to a new iPod or a new car. The money from sales goes straight back into purchasing feed and equipment for the rabbitry. Actually, in most cases the rates are very low and don't recover the cost and time put into raising the rabbit.

The only reason I charge for my rabbits is, number one, so that I do have that extra little bit to put back into the care of my rabbits. But also because charging a sale/adoption fee separates the serious inquiries from the others. Anyone could decide they're interested in a free bunny, and they may even be a great home that treats the rabbits well. But usually anything with a free or low cost is not taken quite as seriously, so it may not be a lifelong or lasting situation, no matter how good the inquiry sounds.

In addition to that, many rescues and shelters do get pretty good rates for spaying/neutering if they have a working relationship with a local vet (prices around here are $200+). I don't really have that connection with a vet, nor do we really have a local rabbit savvy vet. So although I recommend spaying or neutering for pets, it's the choice of the new owner.

In reality, there are very few differences between reputable animal placement facilities (either shelters or rescues) and reputable breeders. We all have the same goal: responsible rabbit ownership. And we all just do our best to recoop some of our costs so that we can continue to improve the rabbit community.


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## Happi Bun (May 11, 2011)

There is a big difference in the sense shelters and rescue want to stop adding to the already overpopulated numbers (hence the spaying/neutering before adoption) while breeders create more. However, I'm a firm believer that REPUTABLE breeders do not add to overpopulation. Irresponsible/Backyard breeders do, pet owners wanting cute babies or 'just one litter' fall into the category to me.

I have adopted three rabbits; 

Dunkin - From a friend who rescued him
Amber - From a rabbit rescue
Penny (RIP) - From a rabbit rescue
And I have purchased three rabbits; 

Dewey (RIP) - From a supposedly 'Responsible breeder' who turned out to be crap
Felix - Was a breeder cull due to his color, was close to being snake food
Rizzo - From a family who's daughter thought it was okay to put bunnies together
Sadly I have yet to meet a breeder in person that I believe to be reputable and responsible. I have had one bad experience with a rabbit rescue and countless with breeders. These are just my experiences. Pet Stores are a BIG TIME taboo to me these days. Needless to say any other bunny additions to our family will be from a rescue or shelter. Like other members, I like the feeling of saving a life because even if it's from a rescue, the now open spot of the bunny you adopted will be re-filled with a rescued bun.

:bunny24


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## Nela (May 11, 2011)

I'm going to take a beating...

I take bunnies home because they 'feel right'. To be honest, I have bought from pet stores, adopted, bough from breeders, rescued myself, etc. 

I agree that there are tons of bunnies in shelters and I agree that they need homes. I think, for me, when I check a shelter, I am looking for that particular rabbit that has been there for a long time and that no one seems to want to take home. I especially appreciate the difficulty in finding someone for a special needs rabbit. I think, that is mainly what I look for.

However, I wouldn't scold anyone for buying a bunny in a pet store. I think many pet stores have gotten a terrible undeserved reputation. Many owners truly love animals. I just wish they would do more to educate themselves and their customers. Some do and I have no shame in encouraging those businesses to grow. In any case, wherever the bunny is, the bunny needs a home. 

I find it a bit sucky to deny a bun a chance at a good home because we don't want to encourage the pet store to be honest. It's hard for me to walk away, knowing what may happen. In fact, oftentimes, I feel more compelled to help the bunny at the pet store because I KNOW that that bunny is more likely to end up neglected and abandoned shortly after. The bunnies in the shelters, though not thrilled, are relatively safe. They've already lived that nasty experience and luckily they have fallen into the hands of people who care about them and who will work at getting them good homes. Normally, they are well fed, are indoors, and are quite loved by all the volunteers. Am I saying they should be left there? No of course not. However, I really wouldn't bash anyone for buying from a pet store. I would of course warn about the possible health issues that may come up. The risks of buying from a place that doesn't know what to look for, etc. 

I also understand wanting to get a rabbit from a place where you can know of the bun's history. A proper breeder can offer that. A pet store and a shelter cannot. A proper breeder deserves to have their work recognized. A proper breeder strives to be the one selling rabbits, not pet stores so that buns aren't abandoned in shelters. Many of those breeders even offer to take bunnies back if owners change their minds along the way. A proper breeder strives to improve the breed and improve the overall health of a rabbit to the best of their abilities.

In the end, I am one of those who simply will not walk away from a rabbit because he or she is not in the 'right' place. The bun never got to pick where he or she ended up and I think it's just unfair to the bun. Call me silly but that's how I feel it in my heart. 

Look when I got Ashlynn. I loved that lil girl from the moment I laid eyes on her. I knew I had to have her. I knew that she was the typical adorable rabbit that would quickly find a home, most likely as an impulse purchase. Sadly, she died a few days after I got her. I could cry and get angry and say never again, but in my heart, I know she didn't die alone. Even in the brief time that I had her, I loved her as much as I could love her. She passed with Smores by her side. She could have died alone but she didn't.

I'm pro adopting. I am. The first thing I suggest is for soemone to look in a shelter. I've adopted and rescued and I know that rewarding feeling and you can clearly see how life-changing it is for the bunny involved. There's no doubt about that.

However, if someone looks into a bunny's eyes and feels the need to take that particular one home, whether s/he be at a pet store, breeder,fair, etc. I have no problem with that. Whether you save a rabbit from the shelter by taken it from there or adopting it before it gets there makes no difference to me. In fact, it saves that bun the nasty experience of being neglected and abandoned.

Just know that if you adopt a bun, especially from places where they don't know or maybe even not care about what they are doing, you may be taking in more than just a bun as s/he may come with health/behaviour issues. I think in the end, that's what matters most. Knowing that it is possible and be willing to deal with it, for the sake of the bun. Not everyone can, and not everyone will.

So whilst we argue about the 'right' thing to do, let's not forget that in the end, any bun is a potential bun in need. No bun has a say in where he or she is at when you come along. You may be that bun's only chance at a happy home for quite some time. I wouldn't have the heart to explainwhy Ishould only adopt from the shelterto the bun staring back at me. That's what happens when my heart speaks louder than my head.


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## JadeIcing (May 11, 2011)

*Watermelons wrote: *


> *buns2luv wrote: *
> 
> 
> > "buying" (adopting) from a shelter and paying say $75 is actually paying for their spay/neuter as shelters get them s/n before adopting them out.
> ...


I wish right now our rescue pays $84 for a neuter $87 for a spay. We charge $75 for an adoption fee.... Our adoption fee does not cover the full cost. Donations are VERY low. 

Yes some places may luck out with paying a lower cost but not all.


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## JadeIcing (May 11, 2011)

Ok so here is my take. I am very much about the individual rabbit but can I get a rabbit from a breeder? No not even from a good breeder. Why because the good breeders that I would look for I know will be responsible in who they let the rabbit go to. 

Now a store? Can't say I won't do that again. Ringo, Connor, Elvis(someone dumped him there) and Wyatt are from a store. Ringo and Connor have had health issues. Ringo most of you know his health history. I always wonder about the rest of his litter. One baby in paticular. I wish I had taken them both. 

Why because unlike the good breeder these bunnies are not as lucky. Yes some stores may do right by them but not all. So these bunnies are ones that I would buy for myself but not for the rescue. These are bunnies that would be mine.

Now do I go to breeders to ask questions? Yes because I respect the breeders I go to. Do I go to rabbit shows? Yes because I respect good breeders. Just because I respect you doesn't mean I have to buy from you.



Recap:

Adopting would be my first choice. 

Buying from a store.... Depends the bunny because I don't believe smaller stores will ever stop selling bunnies. Why because so many still sell dogs. 

Buying from a good breeder.... No because I know that this breeder will be selective in where the bunny goes.

Buying from a bad breeder... Never


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## OakRidgeRabbits (May 11, 2011)

Happi Bun wrote:


> There is a big difference in the sense shelters and rescue want to stop adding to the already overpopulated numbers (hence the spaying/neutering before adoption) while breeders create more. However, I'm a firm believer that REPUTABLE breeders do not add to overpopulation.



Reputable breeders also want to stop adding to the overpopulation though. That's what makes each business no different from another. Breeders take great care in either placing their rabbits with good homes within the breeding community (yes, we screen breeders before selling to them too) as well as pet homes that will not use the rabbits for nondiscriminatory breeding. If neither of those outlets are possible, then the rabbits are often humanely euthanized to provide nutrition for other animals. So like you said, breeders aren't adding to the overpopulation. Even though they may be breeding their rabbits, very few (if any) of those will ever see a shelter or rescue. It could happen, but it could also happen that a rabbit that was adopted from a shelter ends up back in a shelter. All we can do is try our best to find the best homes we can!


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## dainerra (May 11, 2011)

the only problem with buying from stores is that it encourages the "bad" breeders. It's the same with dogs. A responsible breeder wants to know and approve of the homes that their babies go to. When you turn them over to a pet store, the animal will go to the first person who hands over the $$.
When you purchase one of those bunnies from a pet store, you might be saving that particular bunny. But you are also encouraging the store to sell even more bunnies in the future. The breeder will get a call from the pet store and then buy and breed more bunnies. So, instead of saving one bunny, you (generic you) are insuring that there will be a dozen more bred to take its place.


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## undergunfire (May 12, 2011)

I am always okay with a REPUTABLE breeder for ANY animal - and we always have different views on what is reputable to each of us. However, I'd prefer to adopt a rescue animal before purchasing one from a breeder. 

Of all of the pets I love and the ones I have loved & lost, only 3 of them were from breeders....and all 3 were rabbits. Those rabbits were "culls" and may have otherwise ended up who-knows-where. I don't regret getting them. Will I get a rabbit from a breeder in the future? I highly doubt it, because I've learned that adopted/rescue rabbits are much closer to my heart. I don't plan to breed or show rabbits, so I am very open to the selection (and there are hundreds) of adoptable rabbits from rescues.

My kitties, rats (RIP), and dog are all from a rescue.

However, I'm hoping my next dog will be a Standard Poodle. I'll look in rescues first, but I'm preparing to find a reputable show breeder. I wouldn't mind spending $2k+ on a puppy (even though I'd prefer a retired adult). Why? Because I am looking to have a Std. Poodle for competition grooming (which I hope to do with my future). I need a dog that I know will have good temperament, health, coat type, and body type. This will be years of planning to find the right breeder (I've already been looking around for a year). I'd need to be completely comfortable with a breeder before I'd get one from them.


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## hexi99 (May 13, 2011)

i really cant say which is better or worse. it depends on the situation. for example i have a rabbit here named eclypse. my friend and i both wanted to get rabbits. she being a first time rabbit owner and i wanting to get another after i had lost my other two. neither of us can adopt from the local shelter because we turned them in on several occasions for people working there mistreating animals. so she and i placed an ad looking for a rabbit that some one needed to give up for whatever reason. we got an email a short time later from a breeder of holland lops. i had a lop when i was younger and i loved her to pieces she was mellow and funny. my friend lives farther away from this breeder then i do and seeing as i have had rabbits most of my life she asked that i go check out the place and talk to the breeder. as soon as i pulled into the drive way the breeder met me and showed me to where he kept his rabbits. he had been breeding and showing lops (holland and french) for many years.he had a lovely set up very clean all rabbit looked well cared for. he gave me a tour and a chance to meet several of his rabbit. they were all tame and when he would walk by they would rush to greet him. then he told me the story of eclypse. she was the pick of the litter and he held her back to show her and she did great for him. there was an accident and she ended up breaking a leg. he spent hundreds getting it fixed. the leg healed nice but was not lining up straight enough for a show so he decided he would find a good home for her. he asked me lots of questions which i was happy to answer and i asked him several. i spend over an hour there getting to know her before i took her. i called my friend back talked to her explained it all and she decided she would take her.well i have been taking care of eclypse for my friend as they had to move and she didnt want to take her before the move and stress her out. in my opinion the breeder that eclypse came from was a good person. he didnt breed to make money. he spent hundreds to fix her leg and only asked a 15 dollar fee because he didnt feel giving a rabbit away was a good thing. he said that if somebody wanted a rabbit they would be willing to give something back to the breeders so he could put it back into his herd and he felt that if somebody is willing to pay a fee they are less likely to abuse or dump a rabbit off somewhere.he also said if for some reason at anytime in her life it didnt work he would take her back. in my honest opinion he is a good breeder. i have had bad experiences with breeders in the dog world but my one rabbit breeder experience i had was wonderful. do i think all breeders are that way no,but i want to be fair and believe that not all are bad either. would i adopt a rabbit from a shelter/rescue sure,but i would expect the shelter/rescue to live up to my expectations. i have seen places that are excellant and a few that are not good just like breeders can be. i think it depends on a persons choice to get from a good breeder or a shelter. not all of us have the option to get from a shelter because they are to far or they arent a good place. i also think the word rescue can be many things.. for example my mini lop jack sparrow. the people that had him thought he was ugly and worthless and were going to dump him in the woods. another friend of mine picked jack up for me because if he wasnt picked up by a certain time he was going to be let go. when she got him she discovered his bottom teeth grown up basically into his nose and the top ones were so over grown they were cutting into his mouth and tongue. so she trimmed his teeth and fed him. to me that is a rescue. i dont think you have to be an offical shelter/rescue place to rescue a rabbit or any animal. i also have a couple small birds that were neglected and dumped at our local petco to be adopted out. i decided to take them because if they stayed there they wouldnt be talked to or get out of cage time. they charge adoption fees there as well and have you fill out a form. on occasion they will have a rabbit they host from the local shelter and help get it adopted. i think thats great because it makes people think different about shelters and pet stores. 
sorry for babbling and this is a good topic glad to see people can respect each other and their opinions not all forums are like this one trust me.


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