# Digestive enzymes for long-term (even permanent) use?



## Jenk (Oct 14, 2011)

I'd like to know if giving a digestive enzyme--such as the powdered form of Bromelain--is dangerous in any way? I've read somewhere that the human digestive system will become dependent on digestive enzymes if taken regularly. (Per the online source, the body begins to make less and less of its own enzymes as a result of the supplemental ones. But the source didn't seem very scholarly; I'm unsure if the info. is true.)

My 4-year-old Mini Rex made it through her previous shed with twice-daily brushings and Bromelain. She's gut-slowdown/stasis prone; I attribute the Bromelain as having helped, since just brushing her thoroughly in the past wasn't enough to prevent issues.

I gave her Bromelain during her shed, then continued to give it at least once daily afterward (1/8 tsp. per dose). She probably had it for 3 months straight--or close to it. (I can't remember without checking my notes.)

I've tried stopping the Bromelain but find that her fecals don't retain a normal size--even when she's eating 1st-cut timothy hay and some oat hay, which normally "bulk up" her fecals. I wonder if her body could use Bromelain regularly for good digestion, but I also worry if it's safe for long-term use.

Final note: a holistic exotics-only vet once put my Zoe (now deceased) on a probiotic/digestive enzyme combination. If it had worked for her, I believe he'd planned to keep her on it long-term. So I don't know what to believe about the safety of long-term digestive enzymes.


Thank you,

Jenk


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## funnybunnymummy (Oct 15, 2011)

I'm not a nutritionist, doctor, or naturopath, but I don't think giving bromelain every day is going to hurt. If the body truly became dependent on digestive enzymes after taking them for awhile, you can bet the FDAwould have something to say about it.The onlynegative comments I found about digestive enzymes said they're useless because they're digested in the stomach and never even make it into the intestines where they're supposed to do their job. I also found some info saying that the body never runs out of enzymes, so taking digestive enzymes is unecessary.

I personally take digestive enzymes (papaya based) and believe they do aid in digestion. Not sure how they work exactly, but I don'tget indigestion like I used to since taking them.

If your bun seems to be doing well on them, I say keep giving them to her.

JMVHO

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## Jenk (Oct 15, 2011)

*funnybunnymummy wrote: *


> If the body truly became dependent on digestive enzymes after taking them for awhile, you can bet the FDAwould have something to say about it.


You would think so, since the FDA seems to have something to say about _everything_. But, then again, maybe it's too busy overseeing (and pushing through) pharmaceuticals and more well-known natural supplements, such as multi-vitamins. Heh.



> The only negative comments I found about digestive enzymes said they're useless because they're digested in the stomach and never even make it into the intestines where they're supposed to do their job. I also found some info saying that the body never runs out of enzymes, so taking digestive enzymes is unecessary.


I have read those same statements online. Even if the enzymes work solely in a rabbit's stomach, they still seem to help my bun crew whenever they start showing signs of gut slowdown--i.e., smaller fecals and/or fur-strung fecals.



> I personally take digestive enzymes (papaya based) and believe they do aid in digestion. Not sure how they work exactly, but I don't get indigestion like I used to since taking them. If your bun seems to be doing well on them, I say keep giving them to her.


I've considered taking digestive enzymes but haven't looked into which ones might work best for me. Bromelain is easiest to give my rabbits, since it comes in a powdered form that I can dissolve in water and syringe to them. And my girl loves the taste of it. 

I'm still trying to see if I can, in a sense, wean my girl's body off of Bromelain, so that I'm only giving it to her as needed. But if my attempt to not have her body rely on Bromelain fails, I guess I'll go back to giving it to her daily (or a few times per week).


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## Watermelons (Oct 16, 2011)

*Jenk wrote: *


> I'd like to know if giving a digestive enzyme--such as the powdered form of Bromelain--is dangerous in any way? I've read somewhere that the human digestive system will become dependent on digestive enzymes if taken regularly. (Per the online source, the body begins to make less and less of its own enzymes as a result of the supplemental ones. But the source didn't seem very scholarly; I'm unsure if the info. is true.)


I find this interesting.
This seems like an equally debatable topic from both sides and I think you will get people who are 100% set on their side.
Can you let me know what you find on this? Ive got 2 of my dogs and 1 cat on digestive enzymes (Pro Zyme, you can get it from any vet and a fair few pet stores) and their each on it for their own special reasons however now that this has popped into my head Ive stopped. Paranoid would be a good word.


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## Jenk (Oct 16, 2011)

*Watermelons wrote: *


> *Jenk wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I'd like to know if giving a digestive enzyme--such as the powdered form of Bromelain--is dangerous in any way? I've read somewhere that the human digestive system will become dependent on digestive enzymes if taken regularly. (Per the online source, the body begins to make less and less of its own enzymes as a result of the supplemental ones. But the source didn't seem very scholarly; I'm unsure if the info. is true.)
> ...


I wouldn't stop giving your pets Pro Zyme because of what I've posted. I honestly don't know if what I've read about the body's dependency on enzymes is true. And I have a feeling that trying to reach the truth may be like finding a needle in a haystack. Still, I plan to try and will post here what I find--or don't find.

May I ask what your pets' various digestive issues are that led you to give them enzymes regularly? (This is just a curiosity question.)

I must say that I notice my Emma's fecal production is better within 12 hours of receiving a dose of Bromelain. I've tested this theory by not giving it to her for several days at a time. Whenever I stop giving Bromelain, her fecals turn small and dark--i.e., I can see no fiber in them. They also seem to decrease in quantity at times. And I don't toy around with her diet, so it's not dietary changes causing the change in her fecals. 

I give Bromelain with food, so I suspect it helps more to break down the food rather than provide anti-inflammatory properties. Still, I believe it probably provides some anti-inflammatory properties, even when given with food. I've read that if enzymes are given _without_ food, then they provide anti-inflammatory relief.


Jenk


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## Watermelons (Oct 16, 2011)

*Jenk wrote: *


> *Watermelons wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *Jenk wrote: *
> ...


Well it is a logical question, and does make sense that it can start decreasing your pets own natural enzymes. Dependancy. Our bodys take every chance they can to be lazy, and if we start giving them stuff that makes their work easier, their going to stop producing stuff if its being given to the body in an easier method. If we were to ride around on a scooter everywhere for a year,our bodys getting used to that, our lung capacityand heart are used to very minimal work, andsteadily decrease over time, now imagine suddenly deciding youre going to walk to the store. You wont make it.

This will be a great discussion with Dr Briggs nextweek.


I have 1 dog on it because hes so hyperactive in the summer he burns through his calories so quicky he ends up losing alot of weight, so we figured enzymes to help him get every last calorie from his food.
Another dog that it doesn't matter what you feed her, she will not gain an gram of fat, she is thin and has been thin for 3.5 years since getting her as a pup and once again, why not try enzymes and see if that helps her gain some weight. (Nothing wrong with a labx thats NOT fat)
And last but not least, a neurologically challenged cat, he gets sick occasionally for various reasons, UTI's and what not but in the summer he had been acting lethargic fairly often, and we were tied between it being pancreatitis or just dehydration, and at the same time because he does have neuro issues, maybe he isn't able to break down and use what hes eating all the way? Is he not getting the energy from the food? hes not thin or fat. 

I have gimpy animals, I think thats all that needs to be said about that.


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## Jenk (Oct 16, 2011)

*Watermelons wrote:

*


> Well it is a logical question, and does make sense that it can start decreasing your pets own natural enzymes. Dependancy. Our bodys take every chance they can to be lazy, and if we start giving them stuff that makes their work easier, their going to stop producing stuff if its being given to the body in an easier method. If we were to ride around on a scooter everywhere for a year,our bodys getting used to that, our lung capacityand heart are used to very minimal work, andsteadily decrease over time, now imagine suddenly deciding youre going to walk to the store. You wont make it.
> 
> This will be a great discussion with Dr Briggs nextweek.


Please do share what your pets' vet has to say on the issue. 



> I have gimpy animals, I think thats all that needs to be said about that.


I shouldn't have laughed at this statement, but I did. I think that's because I understand exactly where you're coming from; my husband and I also have "gimpy" animals. Prior to losing Zoe this past August, it was a daily grind to keep her digestive system going. I must keep a close eye on my stasis-prone girl, Emma. Pinkerton tends to develop gas and/or digestive slowdown when he's shedding, so he's good for 2-4 bad bouts per year. And our cat, Simon, is suspected of having IBD--he was scoped at both ends with no definitive answer--and, thus, vomits a _lot_.


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## gmas rabbit (Oct 17, 2011)

I think personally if they are doing well on the enzymes, I would keep them on them. Obviously their systems require more than they are capable of making. Len is on a probiotic daily and extra when his colitus acts up. It is just one of those things that he has to do to stay healthy. (maybe if he was a rabbit he would have GI statis) lol. The breeder that I got Nickolas from years ago had her rabbits all on papaya enzyme tablets and extra when they were shedding. She recommended when I got Nickolas to keep him on it. Never seemed to hurt him. Only problem that I ever had was that my little grand daughters like to give it to him so that they could have one too!! Sometimes they had more than one.


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## Jenk (Oct 21, 2011)

*gmas rabbit wrote: *


> I think personally if they are doing well on the enzymes, I would keep them on them. Obviously their systems require more than they are capable of making. Len is on a probiotic daily and extra when his colitus acts up. It is just one of those things that he has to do to stay healthy. (maybe if he was a rabbit he would have GI statis) lol.


I still wonder, though, if I'm making her system more dependent on external enzymes, so that her body, in turn, produces less of its own. At least that's one assertion I read regarding human consumption of enzymes. And if that info. is true--if the human body can become overly dependent on supplements, like enzymes--why wouldn't a rabbit's body do the same? At least it's possible.

My current goal is to watch my bunners' fecal production and not give them enzymes on a good poop-production day. (My male only gets Bromelain when he's shedding heavily _and_ passing visible fur.) Thus far, I've only been giving Emma Bromelain every 3-4 days. Whenever her fecal size decreases and/or her fecals turn dark (non-fibrous looking), I give her 1-2 doses (12 hours apart).



> The breeder that I got Nickolas from years ago had her rabbits all on papaya enzyme tablets and extra when they were shedding. She recommended when I got Nickolas to keep him on it. Never seemed to hurt him. Only problem that I ever had was that my little grand daughters like to give it to him so that they could have one too!! Sometimes they had more than one.


One tidbit about enzyme tablets: I've heard at least two stories about rabbits choking on them. And my boy, too, once choked on one--and retained an occasional cough for two more more days afterward. After that experience, I've stopped giving him papaya tables (Oxbow). I now syringe him Bromelain powder mixed with water.


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## rachard1583 (Oct 27, 2011)

It is well worth taking the time to source the best complete rabbit food mix from a reputable supplier and this mix should include all the nutrition they need when supplemented with fresh vegetables and fruit. Fresh hay and grass form the basis of their diet and is high in natural fibre and calcium therefore it should be given every day; rabbits need two types of fibre in their diet these being digestible and indigestible.

http://www.pawspetbeds.co.uk


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## Jenk (Oct 27, 2011)

*rachard1583 wrote: *


> It is well worth taking the time to source the best complete rabbit food mix from a reputable supplier and this mix should include all the nutrition they need when supplemented with fresh vegetables and fruit. Fresh hay and grass form the basis of their diet and is high in natural fibre and calcium therefore it should be given every day; rabbits need two types of fibre in their diet these being digestible and indigestible.


Hi, rachard183.

My rabbits get a rationed amount of Oxbow BB/T pellets, a rationed amount of greens, unlimited timothy hay, and small handfuls of oat hay. 

Most people would say this diet should be enough for a rabbit to produce a fairly consistent fecal size/quantity, but this is not the case with our Mini Rex girl. Her fecal size tends is often all over the place throughout a 24-hour period, as if her body doesn't digest certain foods as well as it could/should. For example, if she receives more than a treat-size amount of greens, her fecals turn small/dark and tend to decrease in quantity, so I don't feed her a ton of greens. 

Jenk


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