# Smitten



## pla725 (May 17, 2008)

Smitten, my Satin girl, seems to be dealing with symptons of a UTI. First I thought she was having gas. I gave her simethicone before I went to my part-time job this evening. She didn't look any better when I came home. I picked her up to check her over. She was all wet underneath and peed on the floor. I gave her some metacam to help with the pain. She is sitting in the litter box right now. I'm definitely taking her to a vet tomorrow. No messing around. Just what I need. It's been a crappy month. I'm tired and going to bed. I will be checking her through out the night. I will let everyone know what is going tomorrow.


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## AngelnSnuffy (May 17, 2008)

Oh no. I'm sorry to hear this. If it is a uti, at least they're easier to treat But after all you've dealt with Abner...

Keep us posted, hon.


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## Bo B Bunny (May 17, 2008)

Oh man! I hate that! I sure hope she's ok.

ray:


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## Jenk (May 17, 2008)

Poor Smitten. I'm thinking positive thoughts for your girl. 

Jenk


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## pla725 (May 17, 2008)

Thanks everyone. She seems to have perked up a bit today. Smit did eat some veggies. Not much. I have some baytril so I'm going to give her some of that. And some pumpkin to get her to eat.


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## polly (May 17, 2008)

Thats a shame poor girl, Can you give her a bit of cranberry in her water or to eat? It is good for UTI's


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## pla725 (May 17, 2008)

I bought cranberry juice today for both of us. I think I might have a UTI. At least I have good company.


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## pla725 (May 17, 2008)

Smitten did eat some hay and veggies I put next her on her perch. She's decided to rest on top of the cage. Sawyeris standing guard. I can tell he is missing her company. I also got her take some water with a little cranberry juice mixed in. At least it something.


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## pla725 (May 18, 2008)

Smitten is doing better today. However, I can tell she is still uncomfortable. It's definitely bladder sludge. So she is going to the vet. Maddie has an appointment on Tuesday so I will schedule an appointment for Smit at the same time.


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## AngelnSnuffy (May 18, 2008)

Glad to hear she's not doing too bad. Poor baby. Do you have any Metacam you could give her to take the edge off?


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## pla725 (May 18, 2008)

I borrowed some Metacam from Abner's supply. I have a little left. She's looking like she can use another dose. It's definitely a good case of bladder sludge. I think she be okay until Tuesday. If not I will take her to another vet tomorrow. I have a couple of options. That is a last resort as I am unemployed right now and have very little funds. Another subject for another time.


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## Jenk (May 18, 2008)

*pla725 wrote: *


> I think she be okay until Tuesday. If not I will take her to another vet tomorrow. I have a couple of options. That is a last resort as I am unemployed right now and have very little funds. Another subject for another time.


I understand the "little funds" part. I, too, am currently unemployed. Even with my husband's salary, regular bills compounded with frequent vet bills (for our one bun) become stressful and tedious. 

I'm thinking positive thoughts for your sweet bun and your job/ funds situation. ray:


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## pumpkinandwhiskersmom (May 18, 2008)

ray:for better times for Smitten and you!


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## pla725 (May 19, 2008)

Thanks guys. That helps. However, now it looks like my lop Pete isn't feeling well either. The hits just keep coming.


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## pla725 (May 20, 2008)

Smitten is feeling better but I'm not taking any chances. Updates tomorrow after the vet visit.


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## AngelnSnuffy (May 20, 2008)

Will be awaiting for an update. Gosh, I feel so badly for you having to deal with all this at once. Wonder if this is a test from the Godsonder:. Sheesh. Poor bunners. Poor you!


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## pla725 (May 20, 2008)

It must be test. I think I've had enough. Between losing my job, having finiancial issues and now sick rabbits enough is enough.


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## AngelnSnuffy (May 20, 2008)

Judging from the Pete thread, you didn't go to the vet today? How's Smitten doing?


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## pla725 (May 21, 2008)

I took Smitten to the vet. Maddie also went. I was there for two hours. Most of that time was for Smitten. Girlfriend got the full spa treatment. That is urine, blood, x-rays and a shave due to urine scald. Actually poor girl couldn't give a urine sample. She got sub-q fluids as well. I have an follow appointment on June 3. She may need an ultrasound. 

Short story is her bladder was thick with sludge. Smitten shares her pen with Sawyer. I couldn't figure out who was leaving "chalky urine" behind. It would be there and next day be gone. 

I guess I got so caught with my own problems I failed to notice Smitten and Pete weren't doing well. Anyway, I got them to the vet before things go too bad.

Smitten is on Baytrilfor now. As I said in the Pete thread I'm considering switching vets.


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## Pipp (May 21, 2008)

Poor Smitten. And poor Paula! (And a lot poorer after thi$).

I hope they at least give you a break when you bring in multiple bunnies, I think my vet gives me a half-price exam fee for the second bunny. 

I postedright after your first post acouple of days ago,but I guess it didn't work. (That happens a lot, lately). It was just a reminder to make sure she gets a lot of water with the Metacam, it slows the blood flow to the kidneys and can damage them, and for a bunny with urinary issues, must be extra cautious. (I know if I don't give Pipp a lot of water/cranberry juice mix with it, she has trouble peeing). 

The Library has a lot of info onurinary problems, including sludge. You're already really knowledgeable, butthere may be extra info of interest in there. 

Cornstarch is goodforurine scald if she still has that problem. 

Best wishes for a healthy warren (and a great job and other goodthings).

Feel free to rant. 



sas :clover:ray:


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## pla725 (May 21, 2008)

Thanks for the info about the corn starch. I was going to put on some vitamin E as well. I have beengive her some cranberry juice in her water. I need to get her to take more.

Smitten's part of the bill was $501. I did get a slight break for Maddie.


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## Jenk (May 21, 2008)

*pla725 wrote: *


> Smitten's part of the bill was $501. I did get a slight break for Maddie.


Oh, do I ever feel your pain. (And how I wish I could say that I do not. ) 

One of Zoe's visits cost $435; her total medical care has cost over $1,000--for the first nine months of her life. I will always believe that she's worth it, but I won't say that the financial strain isn't a stressor. _Oy_... 

Between me not yet bringing in a steady income (from my freelancing), the cost of Zoe's continual medical care and the price of gas, my hubby and I won't be taking a vacation this year.


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## pla725 (May 21, 2008)

Thank goodness for care credit. At least I had the foresight to apply for and was approved for that before I lost my job.


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## AngelnSnuffy (May 21, 2008)

*pla725 wrote: *


> Thank goodness for care credit. At least I had the foresight to apply for and was approved for that before I lost my job.



Thanks goodness is right!

How's Smitten this evening?


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## pla725 (May 22, 2008)

She is eating and drinking and peeing. I gave her the Baytril and put vitamin E on her urine scald. She is doing better than Pete at the moment.


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## pla725 (May 23, 2008)

Miss Big Buns is doing okay. I'm still concerned about her urine incontinence. No chalky urine though.


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## AngelnSnuffy (May 24, 2008)

Glad 'Miss Big Buns' is still doing okay. I'm also glad you've kept your humour although dealing with all you have dealt with. I pray this is the last of your hard times with the bunsray:. You are a wonderful bunny mom!:hug:. I can't imagine how hard this has all been for you.


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## pla725 (May 24, 2008)

It just seemed everything that can just about go wrong has this past month. I can't wait for May to be over.


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## cheryl (May 24, 2008)

*pla725 wrote: *


> It just seemed everything that can just about go wrong has this past month. I can't wait for May to be over.



I can understand totally...i had a very bad year last year,everything just seemed to keep going wrong,it was one thing after another with my bunnies,and i felt like that there was no light at the end of the tunnel for me,and then when Pippi died,i just broke down...i couldn't take anymore

Hugs to you :hug:

Cheryl


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## Leaf (May 25, 2008)

I really hope things start going your way soon!


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## pla725 (May 27, 2008)

The office manager called to check on Smitten. I'm still concerned about her incontinence. Dr. Snyder is on vacation. She will speak to Dr. Stahl who does know rabbits. 

I let her and Sawyer out on Sunday for exercise. Smitten was leaking all over the place. 

The lab work isn't back yet. I did have the EC titer done again on her.


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## AngelnSnuffy (May 29, 2008)

Any updates on Smitten? Hope everything is well with you guys.


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## pla725 (May 29, 2008)

She is doing as well as can be. Still incontinent.


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## pla725 (Jun 1, 2008)

I noticed yesterday that Smitten seemedto be having trouble with her hind quarters. Today it seems to be more noticeable. I fear that she may have EC. Great.


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## pla725 (Jun 1, 2008)

I took a better look just a few minutes ago. She seems to be favoring her right hind leg. So it might be an injury. Definitely going to the vet on Tuesday.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Jun 2, 2008)

It does sound like EC:?. Cheryl, Randy? Ugh.

I certainly hope not. Praying.


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## pla725 (Jun 2, 2008)

I hope it isn't EC but something tells me it is. Anyway, I haven't taken the time to give her a good look over. I wil do that once she is out of her hiding spot. She is eating, pooping, doing all things rabbit and even tried to binky last night.


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## juliew19673 (Jun 2, 2008)

Poor Smitten.. Hope its not EC.. Will you keep you in my thoughts.


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## pla725 (Jun 3, 2008)

Well we're back from the vet and my worst fear has been confirmed. Smitten's EC titer went from about a 1.4 in the moderate range to a 2.4 in the strong positive range. The previous titer was done about 1 1/2 years ago. She is on Pancur for 28 days. Sawyer is on Pancur for 14 days as a prentitive. Dr. Snyder is not optimistic, and to be honest, neither I am.


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## Bo B Bunny (Jun 3, 2008)

ray:


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## slavetoabunny (Jun 3, 2008)

I'm so sorry. I'll keep Smittem in my thoughts. ray:ray:


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## juliew19673 (Jun 3, 2008)

I am so sorry to hear that news, but will not give up hope for Smitten - you just never know.. Will put Smitten on the bun prayer list and best of luck.


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## pla725 (Jun 4, 2008)

I'll call my vet again tomorrow or Thursday and schedule another titer. I will also ask about learning to do sub qs. I did it once before with Simon but that was over a year ago. 

I'll also check into that other med that Randy mentioned in the EC thread.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Jun 4, 2008)

So sorry to hear this, but it did sound like it. I was hoping otherwise.

I'll be keeping you guys in my thoughts as well. Poor Smitten baby.ray:


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## pla725 (Jun 5, 2008)

I sent an email to Dr. Briscoe at the University of Penn. She works closely with Dr. Rosenthal there. I asked her about her preferred treatment for EC. I also asked about Marquis. I may take Smit there for another opinion. Dr. Snyder does know rabbits butshe doesn't have the expertise of Dr. Briscoe and Dr. Rosenthal.


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## Haley (Jun 5, 2008)

Im so sorry to hear about your troubles. Your poor Smitten 

I was under the impression that the EC tests were worthless since any rabbit exposed to EC sometime in their lives (which is most) would register positive?

Is her hind limb still bothering her? 

From everything Ive read about EC it tends to really show when the rabbit's immune system has been compromised. So the UTI could have brung about a much worse problem. I hope she'll imrpove as her bladder problems improve. I wish I could offer more advice.

Haley


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## pla725 (Jun 5, 2008)

From what I read repeating thetiter may indicateif thetreatment is effective or not.


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## pumpkinandwhiskersmom (Jun 6, 2008)

ray:for Smitten and you!


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## AngelnSnuffy (Jun 7, 2008)

I wish the best for Smitten. 

Have you seen another vet yet? I wish you the best of luck.:hug:


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## pla725 (Jun 7, 2008)

Smitten seems to be responding to the Panacur for now. No incontinence noted. I'm taking it day by day for now. 

I haven't received a response from Dr. Briscoe yet. I'm considering making an appointment at Penn anyway. I'm justing waitingon the funds from my 403 (b) plan to be deposited into my account. It's probably going to be close to $1000 for the visit. That's what it was the last time I was there.


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## cheryl (Jun 8, 2008)

Poor Smitten and poor you for having to go through all this again...it's tough i know...i know what your going through and all the emotions that go along with it.

When Pippi died,i worried like crazy that my other bunnies were going to get EC as well,i still do worry about though,i just don't know how i would deal with it all again...it's an awful thing.

Thinking of you both

~Cheryl


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## pla725 (Jun 8, 2008)

Smit seems to be holding her own. I haven't notice any thing more with her hide quarters. I think she still has some weakness there but it hasn't gotten any worse.

It's tough to go through this again. Things haven't been great lately. I'm now totally unemployed. I think I have to bite the bullet and go work in retail until something in my chosen field comes up.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Jun 8, 2008)

Glad to hear Smitten is doing ok.

Sorry to hear about you losing your job. I hope you find something decent and soon.


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## cheryl (Jun 9, 2008)

Geez that sucks about your job..i'm sorry to hear that though....i just hate the bad times...gosh i always stress out a lot when i have to deal with the bad things in life..i try not to but i just cannot help it.

I'm sure things will start tolook up eventually

Thinking about you

~Cheryl


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## pla725 (Jun 9, 2008)

Smit seems to be doing better today. She was bouncing around here with Sawyer just a few minutes ago.She's still incontinent. I can smell the pee on the air. Now I just have the find the spot(s).


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## juliew19673 (Jun 9, 2008)

sorry its getting rough for you.. Hang in there as it seems Smitten is really trying!.. Thinking of you so update when you get anymore news (or just feel like venting..)


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## pla725 (Jun 10, 2008)

She cheered me up tonight watching her playing withSawyer. I'm glad she is feeling well enough to binky and run through the house with her bunny love. Gettting her to take her meds is whole different story. I'm using an apple to get her take her Panacur. I'm just tired of try to capture her to get her take it. Maybe this will work.


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## cheryl (Jun 10, 2008)

Aww Smitten...i'm happy to hear that she is still feeling good to binky and play...that sounds really good to me....i never really had much trouble with Pippi taking his meds...i would kneel on the floor and say 'come on Pip Pip medi time' and most times he would come over and put his little paws on my legs and let me syringe him his meds...BUT for some reason he would not do that if i was giving him his panacur...he would hop away....gosh i miss him so much.

But lets hope that Smitten has lots of good days 

Cheryl


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## pla725 (Jun 10, 2008)

Smitten didn't fall for the apple trick. Smart rabbit. I ended up giving it to her the old fashion way.


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## pla725 (Jun 18, 2008)

I took Smitten to the vet for a follow up. I had the urinalysis done as well as the EC titer and bloodwork to check on her kidney values. Urinalysis only showed a small amount of white blood cells, no rods, no bacteria, no crystals, no red blood cells. She did gain half a pound. Take it for what it is.


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## cheryl (Jun 18, 2008)

I'm glad Smitten is still going well...and wow she evengained a bit of weight!



You know when i read about Smitten and her problems,it never entered my mind that one of my bunnies could have the disease again....everything was going so good...and this had to happen to Charlie!



I'm sending Smitten lots and lots of well wishes

Cheryl


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## pla725 (Jun 18, 2008)

I need to keep a close eye on Sawyer her companion. My vet said not to separate them. They are reall bonded. I even brought Sawyer with me to the vet just to keep Smitten at ease.


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## cheryl (Jun 20, 2008)

Hi Paula,

I was just wondering how Smitten has been doing....i hope she's doing ok.

And another thing....when i was going through EC with Pippi,i don't think i ever asked you what were the first sign's that you had noticed that something was wrong with Simon.....and what about Smitten,what were her first signs.

With Pippi,it all started with him having a wet bottom that wouldn't clear up with antibiotic's i'm guessing that EC was already taking over by then...and then all the tests he had ,had all started not long after.

The same thing is happening to Charlie now

Cheryl


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## pla725 (Jun 20, 2008)

The wet bottom for bottom was the first sign. Actually Smitten had a really bad case of bladder sludge which did clear up. Simon did have some bladder sludge. 

Simon came into the rescue with the early signs of EC. He did get better after an additional course of Baytril and Ivermectin due to mites. 

Smitten is holding her own. I've noticed that she doesn't seem to be as active. But other than that she is doing as well as can be.


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## cheryl (Jun 20, 2008)

*pla725 wrote: *


> The wet bottom for bottom was the first sign.



Gosh i'm wondering now if that is the first sign of EC in other bunnies...after everything else like a bladder infection and all that has been ruled out first of course.

I'm happy to hearthat Smitten is still doing well though....poor little girl...no bunny deserves to go through all this.


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## pla725 (Jun 26, 2008)

I just came home a few minutes ago and there was message from the vet. Smitten's EC titer is down from 2.4 to 1.1. 2.4 is a strong positive and 1.1 is in the moderate range. Kidney values are within normal limits. She recommended going to Penn for further evaluation.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Jun 26, 2008)

Do you think you'll go to Penn? Probably a good idea. The titer being lower is good at least.


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## pla725 (Jun 26, 2008)

I need to call tosee if they accept Care Credit or a payment plan. I'm unemployed again and don't have the funds. It will probably be close to $1000 for the visit and tests. I'm basing that on my last visit in 2006.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Jun 26, 2008)

Yeah, I was gonna say in my post that you might not be able to afford it, but wow! That's alot.

Best of luck though!


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## cheryl (Jun 27, 2008)

Wow the titer results are really good!....gosh i know how expensive all those tests can be....when Pippi was having all these tests done..each visit was like afew hundred dollars...i spent $3000 plus over the eight months....gosh i still have all his vet receipts as a reminder of everything he had been through,but as you know the only test he didn't have was the EC test....it's tough i know.

Thinking of you both

Cheryl


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## pla725 (Jun 27, 2008)

I'm thinking of trying one of two other vets that are both more rabbit savvy than mine. They are expensive but not as much as Penn. I'm going to speak to others in the rescue that have used Rothman Vet Clinic. Dr. Duggan who is with Animal and Bird Vet Hospital saw Abner so I'm familiar with her. I'm not sure if she is back from maternity leave.


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## pla725 (Jul 10, 2008)

I was able to pull some funds together to take Smitten to the University of Penn. Her appointment is on Monday.


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## pla725 (Jul 13, 2008)

Good thing Smit is going to Penn tomorrow. I noticed she has been having some problems with her rear end. She seems really stiff when trying to move around.


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## Maureen Las (Jul 13, 2008)

Good Luck with the appointment!!!ray:


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## pla725 (Jul 13, 2008)

I'm posting pics. She definitely doesn't look comfortable.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Jul 14, 2008)

Best of luck tomorrow with Smit!


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## pla725 (Jul 14, 2008)

I got back from Penn about 15 minutes ago. I'm really tired and so are the Smitten and Sawyer. Sawyer went along for the ride. Looks like Smitten's problem is related to her bladder. They did a number of tests including blood, urine, x-rays and ultrasound. I'll give more detail later when my mind is clearer.


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## cheryl (Jul 14, 2008)

Poor Smitten...i hope she's feeling better


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## pla725 (Jul 14, 2008)

Smit's blood chemistry was normal accept for a high blood cell count. She has mild anemia. Urine was taken by aspiration and waiting for analysis. Kidney appeared normal by abdominal ultrasound. She did have possible fluid accumulation and soft tissue inflammation near her bladder. There was also fluid present where her her uterus was tied off when she was spayed. 

She had one shot of procaine penicillin and will receive another next week.She will also start on 2 weeks of Metacam. 

An additional ultrasound may be needed depending on results of the urinalysis.


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## pla725 (Jul 16, 2008)

Smit still seems off today. Not feeling well at all. Even Sawyer is concerned. He hasn't really left her side. I'm going to call Dr. Briscoe. I haven't heard about the urinalysis results yet.


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## angieang21 (Jul 16, 2008)

I know I'm fairly new here - but I've been reading about Smitten - and I truly hope she is OK. 

Thinking lots of good thoughts for you and your fur crew. ink iris:


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## Maureen Las (Jul 16, 2008)

Vet re-check sounds like it went well..it's good that she gained half a lbs.


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## pla725 (Jul 16, 2008)

When they weighed Smit during the exam at Penn she was 8 lbs. She lost a lb.


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## pla725 (Jul 17, 2008)

I'mvery worriedby what I see in the picture. I already left a message and email for Dr. Briscoe at Penn.


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## Maureen Las (Jul 17, 2008)

Wow that's pretty shocking!!
let us know what is going on!!
I assume that she urinated blood!!


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## Pipp (Jul 17, 2008)

It doesn't really look like blood to me, more like red-pigmented urine, although I haven't physically seen blood in urine. Blood would be sticky and have clot textures, though, and that doesn't look like it fits the bill, although I can't see it that well. If you were to dip a pencil or somethiing in it, would there be sticky bits? Or is it all pretty much uniform liquid?

When you wiped it up (if you did), was it streaky? 

Hope she's okay. 



sas ray:


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## Jenk (Jul 17, 2008)

I'm not a rabbit "amateur expert" just yet (having owned buns for just 11 months now). But I think that the urine in the photo _looks_ normal. (My girls' urine ranges in color from light-yellow to deep rust. As Pipp mentioned, things are likely more normal than not if it has the normal viscosity of urine.)

What throws me more is the consistency of Smitten's poops. In the photos of her sitting on a towel, they look clumped and mushy. (Are those cecals that she possibly smooshed down a bit?) Then in the urine-focused photo, her poops range in size and some are misshapen. (I know about misshapen poops; my Zoe has them pretty much all the time.)

I hope that the tests reveal an effective treatment for Smitten.

Jenk


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## Maureen Las (Jul 17, 2008)

I'm not used to seeing that dark acolor in urine in rabbits I have seen the darker orangey rust color .In the photo it looks really bright red to me ..but I surehope that it is normalpigment.


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## pla725 (Jul 17, 2008)

She left another rusty urine puddle again this morning.

I saw the poop on the towel pic. I didn't see the poop until I viewed the pic. I changed the towel afterwards. She was probably having an off night. She looked very uncomfortable. 

I sent the pic to the vet anyway.


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## Maureen Las (Jul 17, 2008)

if it is a dark orangey rust color could very well be plant pigments

be sure and let us know what the vet says


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## pla725 (Jul 17, 2008)

I know she has bladder/kidney issues going on so it may be blood in there that may not be clearly seen. Or it could be just from eating her veggies. Anyway I going to err on the side of caution and call the vet again.


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## Jenk (Jul 17, 2008)

*pla725 wrote: *


> She left another rusty urine puddle again this morning.
> 
> I saw the poop on the towel pic. I didn't see the poop until I viewed the pic. I changed the towel afterwards. She was probably having an off night. She looked very uncomfortable.
> 
> I sent the pic to the vet anyway.


Please send your vet the other urine-based photo, as well. Not only to verify the normality (or abnormality) of the urine's appearance, but also to verify the abnormality of Smitten's poop shape/size. (I notice that many of the poops in that photo are thin and oblong, rather than round. And a few are abnormally tiny.)

Please keep us posted. :hug:


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## pla725 (Jul 17, 2008)

I noticed that too. I think her system is out of whack. I also noticed some small poop too. I did call the vet.


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## pla725 (Jul 17, 2008)

Smit's urine is red orange. No response from the vet. She is still eating and moving around. I'm keeping a close eye on her as is Sawyer.


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## Maureen Las (Jul 17, 2008)

Have you seen the dark red-orangish pee from her before or is this a first time ?


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## pla725 (Jul 17, 2008)

Only after she ate a carrot. I haven't given her a carrot in over a week. She still has reddish orange pee. I may just take to a vet tomorrow. Still no word from Penn.


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## Maureen Las (Jul 17, 2008)

How is she behaving?


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## pla725 (Jul 17, 2008)

She is eating and moving around. 

Here is a more recent picture:


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## pla725 (Jul 17, 2008)

She seems to favor the same spot. She actually has two spots that she will leave pee on. She does use the litter box. The misshaped poo is a concern as well.


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## Maureen Las (Jul 17, 2008)

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=30244&forum_id=17
There is an older RO thread about red urine that turned out to be OK

I honestly probably can not interpret those pics ..

it doesn't look normal to me but last night several others thought it did so....


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## Jenk (Jul 18, 2008)

The latest photos do look more worrisome, but it's hard to say from a photo (and not a diagnostic test). The color is hard to capture accurately on camera. But, as I've said earlier (and you've said recently), the misshapen poop is concerning, too. 

I hope that Penn, as wellas your regular vet,has something definitive to tell you. :hug:


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## pla725 (Jul 18, 2008)

I'm starting think this is from the Pen G injection. The pee color was lighter this morning. Smit is doing well. I'll talk to my vet to see if she want to check her over. I also have an appointment this afternoon for three of the bedroom gang with rescue vet.


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## Maureen Las (Jul 18, 2008)

I'm glad that he's going to the vet today..of course I know you'll letus know...hope it goes OK and the mystery solved.


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## Jenk (Jul 18, 2008)

*pla725 wrote: *


> I'm starting think this is from the Pen G injection. The pee color was lighter this morning. Smit is doing well. I'll talk to my vet to see if she want to check her over. I also have an appointment this afternoon for three of the bedroom gang with rescue vet.


Do you think that the Pen G. could be causing Smitten's abnormal poop size/shape, too? Granted, most experts here have said that injectable antibiotics shouldn't mess with the digestive tract.

I hope that all goes well!


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## pla725 (Jul 18, 2008)

It's a guess. 

I missed the call from Dr. Briscoe while I was out taking the 3 of the Bedroom Gang to the vet for checkups. Darn!

Anyway here is a copy of her email:

I am so sorry about the delay. Things have been really overwhelming here with emergencies. I left a LOOOONG message on your home machine. Here are the highlights:

1) Smitten's urinalysis: she is concentrating her urine well, but there is some blood and white blood cells in it. The problem with getting that urine free catch is that the blood and white blood cells could be coming from somewhere else, e.g. her vaginal vault or her urethra or vagina. But her kidneys do seem to be functioning well, so that's a good thing

2) The aspirate of that inflammatory-looking thickening at the tip of her bladder: came back acellular and thus non-diagnostic. I fear that we may not figure out what this thing is unless we take her to surgery. It has proven difficult to evaluate from the outside!

3) Your picture--hard to tell if that is strange or not for her? The color looks kind of orange--does it look more bloody to you in real life? I'm not sure what to tell you. The worry if it is blood is that she is going to become more anemic, so if you see her getting weak or changing her appetite this weekend, bring her in through E.S. to have her PCV checked. Other than that, we're still stuck with trying to figure out where that blood is coming from--even if that coloration is not blood, we know from the free catch urinalysis that she has blood coming from somewhere.

4) The plan? I still think doing that ultrasound-guided saline filling of the bladder under sedation may help us. I can also talk to our interventional radiology department to see if a cystoscopy (i.e. sticking a camera up her urethtra) may help us--it won't tell us about the outside of the bladder but it could tell us if urine/blood is pooling in her vaginal vault or if there is an area on the inside surface of her bladder that is causing her a problem.

Think about what you would like to do. We could have her come back next Tuesday for further diagnostics. I have some clinical interest money that I could put towards her to help ease your costs.


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## Maureen Las (Jul 18, 2008)

Wow she has a lot going on..but I am so impressed with your vet !!!
Are you going to go ahead with the procedure? I guess that you don't have much choice. 

Your vet sounds extremely knowledgeable

How I Smit doing?


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## pla725 (Jul 18, 2008)

She is doingwell for all that is going on with her. I'm going with the second ultrasound for now. 

Dr. Briscoe is great. She trained under Dr. Rosenthal who is one best exotic specialists in the US. 

It's just going be expensive.Ifthey do can give me a break it would help. I'm still not working and things got screwed up with my unemployment. My parents will help me out but I can't keep running to them for money. Their finances are tight as well.


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## Maureen Las (Jul 19, 2008)

Rabbits arereally $$$pets if you take care of them correctly.
I wish I had your vets ..

and I really help Smit feels better


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## Jenk (Jul 19, 2008)

*angieluv wrote: *


> Rabbits arereally $$$pets if you take care of them correctly.
> I wish I had your vets ..
> 
> and I really help Smit feels better


Ditto to all three statements. (I'd normally add a smiley face here, but the first and second statements actually have me feeling a bit melancholy.)

Please give Smitten extra pets and kisses from me.  :hug:


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## AngelnSnuffy (Jul 20, 2008)

Best of luck with the tests, Jenk for Smitten! I hope it all works out for you guys, money and all, I know how it can be hard. Just do what you can, it's awesome the vet is willing to help a bit!


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## pla725 (Jul 20, 2008)

I will certainly do everything I can for her. She's like my child. All my rabbits are my children even my fosters. I will make sure they have everything they can even if means give up things for myself.


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## pla725 (Jul 21, 2008)

I'm taking Smitten to Penn tomorrow for the ultrasound.


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## Maureen Las (Jul 21, 2008)

How's she doing now?


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## pla725 (Jul 21, 2008)

She is eating right now. She was cuddled up with Sawyer a little while ago.


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## cheryl (Jul 21, 2008)

I'm happy to hear that Smitten is doing fine in herself though...that's good


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## pla725 (Jul 22, 2008)

Here is the latest regarding Smitten. She had an ultrasound of her bladder. her kidneys are normal. There was a fluid-filled area between her bladder and colon. It is likely either an inflammed/infected uterine remnant or vaginal vault. They collected urine via ultrasound-guided needle aspirate. They also attempted to aspirate the fluid of the uterine stump and got a small amount of bloody material. Both samples were submited for analysis. The urine sample showed a small amount of bacteria. A culture will be done to determine the best antiboitic to treat the infection with. 

Possible causes of the ultrasound findings include: bladder infection, uterine remnant pyometra causing cystitis, or urine pooling in the vaginal vault. 

Dr. Briscoe and I discussed this and we both agreed that the appropriate course would beinjectible Pen Gand an anti-imflammatory (Metacam) pending the urinalysis results.

That is pretty much it. I'm tired. Long day.


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## Maureen Las (Jul 22, 2008)

Wow 
what a day!

You've certainly got some good docs there.

Something like this would be impossible to diagnosis without either an ultrsoundor massive surgery. 
Sounds like you and Smit had a long day.

Hopefully the penicillin will clear this up.


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## naturestee (Jul 22, 2008)

Wow. Some of the possibilities sound pretty bizarre. Or maybe that's because not all vets would be as wonderfully thorough as yours.

I really hope the penicillin fixes the problem!ray:


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## pla725 (Jul 23, 2008)

University of Penn is one of the best hospital systems in the country for both animals and people.


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## pla725 (Jul 29, 2008)

Smitten had her third Pen G shot today. I also decided to have another EC titer done. 

She was bouncing around here earlier. She seems to have more energy. Now she is stretched out on the living room floor. She's been through alot but it's worth it if she is getting better.


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## Maureen Las (Jul 30, 2008)

THat's great news! 
hope she continues to improve


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## pla725 (Aug 4, 2008)

Third visit to Penn today. We saw Dr. Fordham this time. I think Dr. Briscoe was on vacation until later in the month. We discussed the options such as having a CT or MRI to see if there was anything was going on the abdomen or spine. Dr. Fordham said that this may not be useful as there aren't that many CTs or MRIs done for rabbits. There won't be much to compare this to. Surgery is least desirable option at this time. So the option is continue with a medical course of treatment. Dr. Fordham added Trimethoprim Sulfa in addition to the Pen-G. She also gave me a spray to help keep Smitten's abdomen cleaner. I have to call later in the week to update Dr. Fordham.


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## cheryl (Aug 7, 2008)

How is Smitten doing Paula?...i hope she's doing ok


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## pla725 (Aug 7, 2008)

I just received the results of the latest EC titer. It is back up again. It is up to 2.4. Whatever.Even the experts are stumped.


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## cheryl (Aug 7, 2008)

Geez..i was hoping for some better news for her...so what's happening now?

I'm just waiting for Charlie's test result's to come back...i'm just worrying here.


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## pla725 (Aug 7, 2008)

I'm thinking it just could be from the infection. I don't know. She doesn't seem to have any other symptoms.


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## Maureen Las (Aug 7, 2008)

I agree with you. It's possible that the lowering ofher immune system from the infection could cause the EC titers to rise. I don't know why she wouldn't exhibit symptoms.?


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## pla725 (Aug 7, 2008)

I will talk to the vets at Penn. I left a message for Dr. Fordham. Dr. Briscoe is at a conference. Perhaps she will discuss Smitten with others at the conference. It may come down to having surgery after all.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Aug 8, 2008)

I wish the best for Smitten.ray: 

I'm sorry I haven't kept up, so much to keep up on these days, poor bunnies.


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## Jenk (Aug 8, 2008)

*pla725 wrote: *


> I just received the results of the latest EC titer. It is back up again. It is up to 2.4. Whatever.Even the experts are stumped.


Sending positive thoughts to/for both you and Smitten. ray: :hug2:

Jenk


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## pla725 (Aug 13, 2008)

I haven't noticed any incontiencetoday. She really hates taken the oral meds. It is a challenge to capture her jsut so I can give them to her.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Aug 18, 2008)

How is Smitten doing?


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## pla725 (Aug 18, 2008)

She the incontience is still there. It seems less than before. So perhaps the meds are working.


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## pla725 (Aug 18, 2008)

My last post made little sense. Too early in the morning. 

Smitten's incontience doesn't seem to be any worse or any better. I thought she might be getting better as she had a couple of days of no piddle that I could tell. I will contact the vet to discuss the options.


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## pla725 (Aug 22, 2008)

Here is the latest response from Dr. Briscoe. I had left her a couple of VM this week. The meds aren't really doing much for Smitten accept perhaps to hold offany further infection. Anyway, looks like she may have surgery.

*Hi Paula! 

I'm back and just got your messages about Smitten. Hrrrm...I think that you are 
at the point where it makes the most sense to do an abdominal exploratory or a 
scope of her bladder. We know that either she has a large vaginal vault where 
urine is pooling and potentially causing her discomfort, or she has something 
wrong with her uterine stump--it could be infection, reaction to sutures from 
her spay, or a uterine adenocarcinoma if some uterine tissue was left in. 
Regardless, it's causing irritation of her bladder. 

The scope of her bladder would just be potentially diagnostic--we would be able 
to see if there was some kind of diverticulum (pocket off of her bladder where 
urine is getting caught) or irritation on the inside surface of her bladder. We 
may not see anything, and she won't feel or be any better after we do that 
procedure. MRI or CT would be the same thing: they may or may not tell us 
what's going on and would help with planning a surgery but either wouldn't make 
her any better. 

The risks of an abdominal exploratory include: anesthetic complications (I 
always put it this way--if we lose her under anesthesia, was it worth it?), 
adhesions around the surgical area making things worse, or we don't find the 
problem. 

There's no right answer. Financially, going straight to surgery would be less 
expensive. Surgery costs here would run between $1500-2000 without any 
complications. Dr. Snyder may also be able to perform the surgery, if that is 
the way you'd rather go. I can talk to her about what our plan would be and 
what we would expect to see. The other option is to continue to manage her as 
you have been doing and keeping her clean to deal with the urine scald. We can 
also try diuresing her (giving her lots of SQ fluids) to dilute out the urine 
and see if that brings her some relief. 

Let me know what you are thinking. We may be able to set her up for surgery 
next week, if you are interested. 

Call me Monday, and we can talk more. 

Take care and have a good weekend, 

Jeleen 
*


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## cheryl (Aug 22, 2008)

Gosh Paula..i'm so sorry to hear that Smitten may need to havesurgery....poor girl...I just feel so sorry for what she's going through....and you are being such a great bunny mum...and i know it can be very hard and frustrating.

Will be keeping the both of you in my thought's

~Cheryl


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## Maureen Las (Aug 23, 2008)

I just read this... I guess that you have time to decide what you want to do...sorry that you have to go through so much stress


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## Jenk (Aug 23, 2008)

I am sorry to learn of the current findings on Smitten. I completely feel for you and the stress that you're likely feeling. :hug2:It is terribly hard, the not knowing, the "What If's." Please don't let them consume you.

I will continue to send positive vibes and say healing prayers for your sweet girl. ray:


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## pumpkinandwhiskersmom (Aug 23, 2008)

Sending good thoughts and prayers your way.ray:


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## pla725 (Aug 23, 2008)

Smitten is doing well despite her bladder issue. I'm probably going to have the surgery done. I will discuss it with both vets on Monday.


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## pla725 (Aug 29, 2008)

I finally spoke to Dr. Briscoe today. She has had some medical issues so that delayed returning my calls. We spoke about the options. I've decided to hold off on any surgery for now. I discussed whether to continue with the antibiotics or not. I told Dr. Briscoe that I really didn't think they were doing anything. Besides I had concerns about any long-term effects. So the antibiotics will d/c'd. Just continue with Metacam. I will call for a follow-up in two weeks. 

Smitten is doing well. Why put her through surgery at this time.


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## Maureen Las (Aug 29, 2008)

Sounds sensible to wait if she's doing well and I certainly am glad thst she is


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## AngelnSnuffy (Aug 31, 2008)

Sounds like a plan! Glad to hear all is well! 

Give Smit a hug and kiss from me, the poor thing has been through so much, as have you,:hug:.


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## cheryl (Sep 9, 2008)

I have been thinking about Smitten....i'm so glad that she is doing well...that's just great new's.......is she still doing well Paula?


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## pla725 (Sep 10, 2008)

Yep Miss Big Bunz is still doing well. I haven't seen any incontinence in the last week.


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## pla725 (Sep 14, 2008)

I think I was celebrating prematurely. Just in the last 15 minutes I noticed Smit had difficulty with using her hind legs. She is eating. Which is a plus. I'm going to restart her on all meds and see how she does overnight. I'm also calling the vet tonight. Actually I need to return her call from Thursday.


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## pla725 (Sep 15, 2008)

Smit is still wobbily but doing okay. No change from yesterday. Poor bun tries to steady herself for grooming. She continues to eat. 

I'm keeping in touch with the vet.


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## Maureen Las (Sep 16, 2008)

Just read this...

sorry Smit is not doing as well
keep us posted.............


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## pla725 (Sep 16, 2008)

I'm slowly losing my beautiful Satin girl. She is just slowly wasting away before my eyes. Not just wasting in body but in spirit. I'm angry and sad. I hate this. This just totally sucks. I'm powerless. **** it! I truly hate this. I'm sad for Sawyer too.


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## Maureen Las (Sep 16, 2008)

it's so painful....:hug:


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## AngelnSnuffy (Sep 17, 2008)

Oh no. I am so very sorry. Poor Smitten, poor you. Please feel free to pm me anytime. This has to be so darn tough. 

Still praying and hoping for better news.


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## pla725 (Sep 17, 2008)

She's still eating. That's a plus. Smit gets tired quickly though. Sawyer has been a loyal and dutiful companion. 

Smit is declining. I see it her eyes. Not much I can do. Shades of Simon two years ago. 

Excuse my rambling. I'm tired.


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## Bo B Bunny (Sep 17, 2008)

I'm so sorry


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## pla725 (Sep 17, 2008)

Thanks everyone. She's fighting but the EC but it is slowly taking it's toll. I'm preparing myself for a run to the vet to give her peace. I'm trying not to cry but it is hard. I'm taking Peg's advice and taking pictures. Tonight might the last night for that. The look in Smit's eyes was just leave me be. I'll respect that.


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## Maureen Las (Sep 17, 2008)

I really understand ....

you're respecting her
but it's very sad


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## pla725 (Sep 18, 2008)

Smit seems more alert tonight. She leaped up and attacked the dandelionthat I just put down for her and Sawyer. I don't what to think anymore. I'm going to let her out right now to see what is going on with the hind quarters.


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## pla725 (Sep 18, 2008)

I let Smit out a little while ago and she was running around like nothing was wrong. Go figure. I'm remaining cautious here. I'm thinking of restarting the Tri-sulfa for what is worth.


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## pla725 (Sep 18, 2008)

Smitten is running around and seems to be doing well. False alarm? Remains to be seen. 

I wonder if she was just having problems with her bladder again and this weakened her. Perhaps she was running a fever. Who knows.


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## Maureen Las (Sep 18, 2008)

Sounds like the course of the illness is somewhat unpredictable..sometimes she seems fine and other times sick...
that is really hard to handle..keeps getting your hope up :hug:


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## pla725 (Sep 18, 2008)

Yeah I have a feeling about that too. Just made me feel good tonight to see her feeling better. I have to face reality that this perkiness may be short-lived.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Sep 25, 2008)

How are you guys doing? Thinking about you and Smitten.


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## pla725 (Sep 25, 2008)

I let Smit out last night to run around. She seemed a little stiff in the back end. I dont' know if that was just from the fact that I had let her out in several days or just something else going on. She's okay otherwise.


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## pla725 (Sep 29, 2008)

Smitten appears to be having the same symptoms again. She is having issues getting up and just seems stiff. I did give her something soft to lay on.


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## Pet_Bunny (Sep 29, 2008)

ray:


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## tonyshuman (Sep 29, 2008)

Hang in there, you guys. What will happen will happen, be ready for anything. Best wishes to you, Smitten, and the gang~~


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## Maureen Las (Sep 29, 2008)

Poor little Smit having such a hard time :hug:


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## cheryl (Sep 29, 2008)

Oh Paula you two are always in my thoughts because what you are going through is so close to my heart.
I am so happy that scare i had with Charlie is over because i would have been crushed if she did have EC but im happy she doesnt have it though. 
Poor Smitten 
Thinking of you both


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## AngelnSnuffy (Sep 30, 2008)

Oh no. Poor Smitten! Give him a huge hug from me!


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## pla725 (Nov 17, 2008)

Well if things can't suck any worse now Smitten isn't feeling well again. She seemed fine until this morning. I noticed the bladder sludge is back. I feel bad because it is my fault. I gave her alfalfa pellets over the course of a few days about two weeks ago. I ran out funds to buy greens. The money problem is a whole subject until itself. I was able to get the big kuhuna bunz into see the vet tomorrow night. That was the earliest I can get because I have an all day training at work tomorrow. Meantime I see if get her take some fluid via syringe. Really bad timing.


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## pla725 (Nov 17, 2008)

I gave her some Metacam that I had from her last bout of bladder problems. She didn't even fight me which means she really isn't well. She also peed on me but that can be washed out. I will continue to monitor her throught the night.


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## dquesnel (Nov 17, 2008)

I don't think that the alfalfa pellets could have caused this if it were only for a few days. To get excess calcium/sludge, they need to be on it weeks if not months. Not to stir a new pot, but I would wonder why she is getting continuous sludge and is unable to filter out that calcium, especially such a small amount. Can you get some bloodwork done at the vets tomorrow? I'd like to see what a panel reveals this time. I'd continue syringing water and keeping her warm/dry for now... Best of luck at the vets tomorrow. Keep us posted on how things go...


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## pla725 (Nov 17, 2008)

Smitten had blood work and ultrasound done the last time. The consensus was it could be vaginal vault syndrome. She seem to do well just with medications even though surgery was considered.


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## pla725 (Nov 18, 2008)

Smitten took a turn for the worst last night. I thought she had passed around 1 am but she didn't. She was still breathing. Her heart hasn't stopped beating but she is gone. The eyes are vacant and she was very limp when I picked her up. I'm going to call the vet soon and have her put down. I really hate this.


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## Flashy (Nov 18, 2008)

I'm so deeply sorry for all you are going through (and have gone through) with her. It's the mark of an ace bunny owner to know when to let them go. As someone wise once said, it's the final act of love. I'm glad Smitten has had that love. she's a very lucky girl.

Thinking of you.

x


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## MissBinky (Nov 18, 2008)

I'm so sorry... I know the feeling, it's never easy and there are no words really. Hugs to you. :hug:


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## pla725 (Nov 18, 2008)

Smitten is hanging in there. She was more responsive than I originally had thought. The vet and I decided to see if she would respond to O2, IV fluids and antibiotics. She was really shocky. We did discuss euthanisia. I'm going to call later. Right now I'm beat and need to nap for a bit. At leastmyjoblet me have the day off.


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## Flashy (Nov 18, 2008)

Come on Smitten!


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## pla725 (Nov 18, 2008)

Send all the prayers you can.


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## slavetoabunny (Nov 18, 2008)

ray:ray:ray:ray:ray:ray:ray:ray:ray:ray:ray:ray:ray:


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## pla725 (Nov 18, 2008)

The big Kahuna bunz seems to be rallying. I spoke to Dr. Aumiller a few minutes ago and she said that Smit is more responsive. Smit has kicked at people and has sat up for a bit. As much as I want to shout for joy I realize things can change quickly. I'm going to visit the big girl after 3. I'm taking Sawyer with me. She may very well perk up with her bunny boy there at her side. 

More later....


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## Maureen Las (Nov 18, 2008)

I'm so sorry that you and Smit are going through such a rough time; I'm sorry 
I hope that it was meant for him to come home to you. ray:


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## pla725 (Nov 18, 2008)

I went to visit Smit at the hospital. She seemed to respond to my voice and touch. She raised her one ear rather weakly. She did respond to Sawyer at well. I have to go back in a little while to pick her up and take her to another hospital so that she can be monitored overnight.


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## dquesnel (Nov 18, 2008)

ray:

Best of luck, I really hope she gets over this and can go home soon


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## pla725 (Nov 18, 2008)

The big kahuna bunz is doing better but still critical. She was more responsive to me tonight. She is being monitored overnight at Willingboro Vet Hospital. I did have a chance to check out the area where they will monitoring her and it was fairly quiet. Only one dog barking in another room.


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## Flashy (Nov 19, 2008)

How are things today?


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## pla725 (Nov 19, 2008)

Smitten made it throught the night. I'm waiting to hear back from Willingboro Vet Hospital. I did call earlier but no one was available to give me information. The plan is to pick her up and take her back to Marne Vet Clinic to continue treatment by Dr. Aumiller. To be continued....


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## pla725 (Nov 19, 2008)

Plan B. She stayed all day at Willingboro. She is home tonight. 

*Smitten is home!!! arty:*


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## dquesnel (Nov 20, 2008)

Thats such a relief she is home... they do so much better home. How is she doing now?


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## pla725 (Nov 20, 2008)

She is still weak but eating her greens and hay. She really hates the critical care. When I offered it to her at the hospital she made this "ew" face. I couldn't help but laugh. I take her back to the vet tomorrow morning for a follow up. I think I'll wait on the tests until she is stronger.


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## pla725 (Nov 21, 2008)

Smitten was seen by the vet this am. She is doing much better. I know she is because she was trying to run from the vet. Can't blame Smit. She's been poked and prodded enough this week. Dr. Aumiller thinks she had a blockage. I agree having seen it happen back in September. Same symptoms but she was able to unblock herself that time.


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## Maureen Las (Nov 21, 2008)

Smitten and you have gone through so very much ....

I hope that she remains stable...


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## pla725 (Jan 8, 2009)

Well Smitten is having the same problems as she had back in November. She is having difficulty with her hind quarters. She is stillmoving around but it isn't easy for her. She is eating and drink. I'm starting think it is really EC.


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## Maureen Las (Jan 8, 2009)

Oh that's really a shame as she was doing well for awhile wasn't she?


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## pla725 (Jan 10, 2009)

Smitten is now dragging her hind legs. Ortho problem?I'm takin her back to the vet her treated her back in November once I find out what is going on with my Care Credit account. My finances are just a messy right now and I have no money. I'll do anything I can to help her out.


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## Maureen Las (Jan 11, 2009)

I'm so very sorry for both of you.....ray:


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## pla725 (Jan 12, 2009)

Miss big bunz is doing better. I suspect when she gets a blockage in her bladder and/or kidney area it causes her to become weak in the hind quarters. Go figure.


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## Maureen Las (Jan 12, 2009)

Is she mobile now ?


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## pla725 (Jan 12, 2009)

She has some mobility. She did hop around for a bit but she is still has some weakness in the hind quarters. It is much better tonight than this morning. I still may take her to the vet for a different opinion.


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## pla725 (Jan 15, 2009)

I let Smit out tonight for some exercise. She is still dragging herself around but it hasn't stopped her from trying to binky. She is pooping and peeing. Her appetite is good. I definitely need to have her checked by a vet. I hate to see her this way.


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## Maureen Las (Jan 15, 2009)

..that 's really a shame . .
if she is trying to binky she isn't feeling too bad ...
but it is time for another vet visit


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## pla725 (Mar 6, 2009)

Smitten again is experiencing hind quarter paralysis. Paralysis is really the wrong word. She can move her legs but can't stand up. She is eating and peeing and pooping. I did have butt bathe her and will have to do it again. I'm not sure if it EC. If it is then it is slowly taking it's course.

I did start her on tri-sulfa and metacam. I can't afford a vet right now. My care credit account is frozen. Long story. I guess if things get worse I will have to take her and make some kind of arrangement.


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## naturestee (Mar 6, 2009)

:tears2:

ray:


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## pumpkinandwhiskersmom (Mar 6, 2009)

Thinking of Smitten and you. ray:


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## pla725 (Mar 7, 2009)

Thanks. She doesn't appear to be in distress at this time. As long as she is eating and is alert I will do everything I can for her.


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## pla725 (Mar 7, 2009)

Gave Smitten a butt bath as she was very messy. I think she enjoyed it. She is still eating and such. Still can't hop. If she doesn't get better I will have to figure out how I'm going to pay for a vet visit.


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## Maureen Las (Mar 7, 2009)

Hopefully she will stay well enough for you to figure out how to get some $$; a chronically sick bun is an expensive enterprise..


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## pla725 (Mar 7, 2009)

I know that for a fact. I spent close to $3000 Simon and am close to that for Smitten.


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## pla725 (Mar 8, 2009)

Smitten is laying on the floor eating a carrot and hay. Go figure. I'm not sure how much time she has left but I'm making sure she is comfortable. 

This really tearing me up inside. I can see her slowly wasting away.


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## pumpkinandwhiskersmom (Mar 8, 2009)

I'm so sorry that she's not doing well for you. We'll keep Smitten and you in our thoughts and prayers.


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## pla725 (Mar 8, 2009)

Thanks. It's really hard to go through this a second time. This time I know what is going to happen. It is just a matter of time.


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## pla725 (Mar 10, 2009)

Smit is still hanging in there. She is eating up a storm. She still can't get up on her hind legs but manages to crawl around fairly well. I'm not sure what is but I know I do need to get to a vet. Just the money issue isholding me back.


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## Pet_Bunny (Mar 10, 2009)

I am sorry you are in a very tough situation. Please get better Smitten. ray:


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## pla725 (Mar 10, 2009)

I starting to wonder about this. She has some of symptoms of EC. I know what the symptoms of EC look like having lost a rabbit to that disorder over two years ago. He was actually Smitten's first companion. 

The reason I wondering if this could something else is that she is grooming herself and her partner. Sawyer gets the spots she can't reach. Smit also has shown some signs of wanting to stand up. 

I'm calling the vet tomorrow. I'll work something out. Even if I have clean kennels and walk dogs.


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## Maureen Las (Mar 11, 2009)

Is smitten walking on tip toe or dragging herself?

I agree that you need the vet again
unfortunately


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## pla725 (Mar 11, 2009)

She is actually crawling. She was hopping and once she got tired she would drag her legs. 

I called Dr. Briscoe at the University of Penn. Waiting for a return call.


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## Maureen Las (Mar 11, 2009)

I had a bun with spinal arthritis that dragged herself on one side and developed a bad pressure sore
that's why I asked 
that is a big concern


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## pla725 (Mar 11, 2009)

I'm concerned about that too. I check her daily for any pressure sores and scolding. I have to find some bedding for her.


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## pla725 (Mar 12, 2009)

Smit is quite the trooper. She tolerates her butt bath well. I did notice the start of some skin breakdown in one spot. I applied vitamin E. I tried laying her on the opposite side but she would have none of that. I can't wait any longer to get her to the vet. The vet at Penn hasn't called me back. I'll try someone local. I have a couple of choices. This sucks.


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## pla725 (Mar 13, 2009)

I worked out a deal with the rescue I volunteer for. They will help with the vet bill. I also adopted Smitten from this same rescue.


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## cheryl (Mar 13, 2009)

I thought about Smitten a lot over the month's and wondered how she was doing..had been catching up on what has been going on with her.she really is a little trooper.

It sound's like you got a good deal there with the rescue...

Cheryl


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## naturestee (Mar 13, 2009)

That's fantastic! I'm so glad they're able to help you.

For bedding, you could try a couple layers of fleece from a fabric store. It's pretty cheap, can't unravel, washes well, and is comfy. I've seen it recommended a number of times for disabled buns.


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## pla725 (Mar 13, 2009)

I think Smitten is telling me is time for her to go. It was just the way she looked at me during her butt bath. I'll see what the vet says.


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## Pet_Bunny (Mar 13, 2009)

ray:


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## pla725 (Mar 13, 2009)

Thanks. I hope I can make the right decision for her. Her spirit seems diminished.


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## Maureen Las (Mar 14, 2009)

I know that when Babette was unable to stand and kept falling over and dragging herself around it was really hard. She developed a big pressure sore on her side . That was when I knew it was time 
You and Smit have been through so much together ; I know that she'll let you know what she wants. 
'Hugs" 
Maureen


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## pla725 (Mar 14, 2009)

Smitten has an appointment with Dr. Duggan at Animal and Bird Health in Cherry Hill. Dr. Duggan is great with rabbits. I'll keep everyone informed.

Yesterday was just a downer of a day for me. I kind of lost some hope. Hopefully there will better days ahead for all.


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## Maureen Las (Mar 14, 2009)

Smitten is a fighter that's for sure .....


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## pumpkinandwhiskersmom (Mar 15, 2009)

Keeping you and Smitten in my prayersray:


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## pla725 (Mar 16, 2009)

Leaving for the vet in a little bit. I'm trying to remain optomistic. I'm taking Smitten's companion Sawyer with me as well. I will update tonight or tomorrow depending on the outcome of the visit.


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## naturestee (Mar 16, 2009)

ray:

I'm really hoping for good news.


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## pla725 (Mar 16, 2009)

It's good news. Smit has arthritis in her low spine around her pelvis. I saw the x-ray. Dr. Duggan did blood work to check her white blood cell count and kidney values. Kidney values were fine. I figured they would be. Smit is on panacur, zithromax and metacam. She might need the metacam for life.

Dr. Duggan feels the metacam should help Smitten get back on her feet. I'll know in a few days. 

I'm going to switch all my rabbits over to this practice. 

We are all tired.


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## Maureen Las (Mar 16, 2009)

Get some rest!
yes that is good news!!!


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## pla725 (Mar 16, 2009)

Smit is resting now. I'm not that far behind. We were at the vet's office for two hours.


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## pumpkinandwhiskersmom (Mar 17, 2009)

What awesome news! Get some much deserved rest!


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## pla725 (Mar 17, 2009)

Smit hates taking her meds. She wasn't thrilled about taking the metacam this morning. Dr. Duggan prescribed a high dosage than normal to see what happens. Smit is taking 1 cc for now.


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## pumpkinandwhiskersmom (Mar 17, 2009)

Whiskers hated the meds we had to give him last week when he had stasis...it was a major chore to get him to take it. Good luck!


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## pla725 (Mar 19, 2009)

Stillno attempt at getting up but I haven't lost hope. I will let her out tonight and see what happens.


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## naturestee (Mar 19, 2009)

Will she take the meds if they're mixed in something yummy? I can get Fey to take most stuff by mixing it in canned pumpkin. Dora will take anything that's mixed with Bene-Bac. Mmm, yummy!

Still hoping for good results.ray:


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## tonyshuman (Mar 19, 2009)

C'mon Smitten!


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## pla725 (Mar 19, 2009)

I'll try the pumpkin. Thanks.


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## Maureen Las (Mar 20, 2009)

I am smitten with Smitten :inlove:

How is the little angel?


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## pla725 (Mar 20, 2009)

Still not standing but did try earlier to get up. She managed to scoot from her pen to the bedroom rather quickly. I just went and check on her. She gave me "Do you mind. I want my privacy" look.


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## pla725 (Mar 21, 2009)

Videos of Smitten from the other night and last night:









She has had improvement with her mobility.


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## Maureen Las (Mar 21, 2009)

She really looks as if she wants to take off and just cannot

Don't do this until someone else advises on it but when my greyhounds back legs were giving out on him (he was 15) we sometimes would put a long towel under his bellyto helphold him up 
this could be dangerous for a bun with spinal issues but it was just a thought 
I am so afraid her skin will break down .


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## naturestee (Mar 22, 2009)

If this is arthritis (or EC) as opposed to a spinal injury, using a sling to help her walk should be fine. Just go slowly and start with short sessions.

Check out the videos of Cocoa in a sling here:
http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=12158&forum_id=10

He has one bad leg (I think arthritis?) and has been this way for a few years now. He's into his teens and doing ok, the last I heard. Arlette is really active on some other bun forums and could probably answer some questions. I'm pretty sure she's on the Disabled Bunny email list. If you're not sure where that is, send a pm to TreasuredFriend and she'll get you the address you need. Unless someone else here remembers?

If the weather is nice enough by you, Smitten might also like being outside on the grass. I know TreasuredFriend's two disabled girls love it.

Smitten definitely wants to keep going! You're doing a great job with her.


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## tonyshuman (Mar 22, 2009)

Yeah, she definitely looks alert and enjoying her time out of the cage, although she can't quite get up. Would a doggy-cart be helpful in her situation to help her get around during playtime? She might enjoy that. I would be a bit worried about her legs and urine burn though. I have read in the House Rabbit Society book that you can put infant diapers on bunnies with hind-end mobility issues to make urine less of an irritant. Big hugs to you and yours...


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## pla725 (Mar 22, 2009)

I'm going to get the diapers as soon I can. I used them when Simon was ill. Dr. Duggan did suggest that and the cart. I can swing the diapers right now but the cart, even a used one, will have to wait until I catch up on other things first. She is doing well. I did put an old bed sheet down on the carpet but she promptly crawled off it and took off into the bedroom. I will monitor her for now.


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## Maureen Las (Mar 22, 2009)

I think this is the link 


http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/disabledrabbits/


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## DeniseJP (Mar 22, 2009)

Hugs - I know what those vet bills are like when times are tough and the loved ones need medical care.:hug:

Hope Smitten and Pete are feeling better today.

Denise


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## pla725 (Mar 22, 2009)

Thanks for the link for the disabled rabbits group. I joined.


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## Maureen Las (Mar 23, 2009)

I think it is a small select group. let us know what it is like


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## pla725 (Mar 26, 2009)

No hopping yet. Smit has tried to get up several times. She tried to get up and escape from me yesterday during her bunn bath. I'm encouraged.


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## Maureen Las (Mar 26, 2009)

Sounds like she still has a lot of energy


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## tonyshuman (Mar 26, 2009)

I'm glad she's still fiesty. I also understand not getting her a cart yet--just didn't want to clutter the thread up with 100 posts that say "I agree". If you're at all handy, I think you could make one from PVC pipes or bits of wood by looking at the designs online, as well.

Good luck keeping her under control for those butt baths!


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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Mar 27, 2009)

*naturestee wrote:*


> Check out the videos of Cocoa in a sling here:
> http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=12158&forum_id=10
> 
> He has one bad leg (I think arthritis?) and has been this way for a few years now. He's into his teens and doing ok, the last I heard. Arlette is really active on some other bun forums and could probably answer some questions. I'm pretty sure she's on the Disabled Bunny email list.


Just wanted to correct you. Cocoa has passed on a long time ago. I'm good friends with her, I talk to her a lot about Monsters. She has a lot of knowledge. 

I hope smitten starts to hop on her own soon.ray:


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## pla725 (Apr 4, 2009)

Still no hopping. I have to monitor her skin closely as she has one spot that is breaking down. I've been putting ointment on it. She doesn't like to lay on that side. I tried flipping her over today and she flipped herself back on to that side. I'm going to call the vet on Monday to see if she wants me to start her back on the antibiotic or better yet bring her back in.


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## Maureen Las (Apr 4, 2009)

it's hard to get them off the side that they are used to being on... 

yeh skin breakdown is a problem 
do you have flleece for her to lie on ?
can the disabled bun group give better suggestions....


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## pla725 (Apr 4, 2009)

As soon as have the money I will buy a fleece for her. I'm using towels right now. I change them frequently. 

I think the paralysis is permanent. I can see the atrophy in the hind quarter muscles.


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## Maureen Las (Apr 4, 2009)

That's sad 
but you're being a very good bunny nurse to her....


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## pla725 (Apr 5, 2009)

I'm definitely getting diapers or the puppy pads for her to lay on. I may have to wrap her feet with something. I'm concerned about sores. I noticed that she has spasms in her hind feet and they are rubbing against each other causing sores. I'm putting ointment on them.She doesn't need an infection.


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## cjune1961 (Apr 5, 2009)

Hello, Arlette's email is [email protected]. Cocoa passed away last May, and she used his sling up until his last day. It was a couple of months before his 14th birthday and he had used it for several years with no complications to his body or fur/skin. Hope you can see his videos, Hope your little girl recovers wholly and quickly. Carla.


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## pla725 (Jul 30, 2009)

Smitten should be getting her wheelie soon. I hope it helps not only with her mobility but lift her spirit a bit.


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## tonyshuman (Jul 31, 2009)

That's good to hear-- I was just reading this thread earlier today for CGKS's thread on Kate who has limited mobility ( http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=48964&forum_id=16&jump_to=663646#p663646 ). If you could share some thoughts on helping a disabled bun live healthy and happy it would be very appreciated.


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## pla725 (Jul 31, 2009)

In Smitten's case she has a bonded partner who is still very loyal and attentive to her. Sawyer keeps her ears clean which is a help to her and me. He snuggles with her. Just in general is there for her.


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