# Bitten By Fire Ants - HELP



## angela (Mar 3, 2011)

Hi everyone,

Can someone please help me urgently.

Details below:

LOCATION: We live in Thailand. Bunny was outside in exercise run yesterday. Discovered his face completely covered in Fire Ants.

BREED/COLOUR/WEIGHT: Woody Toy (Thai Long-haired), tri-colour, 1.3kgs

AGE: 1 year and 3 months old

SEX: Male

CONDITION: Took to vet yesterday immediately after discovery. She gave him some glucose, a pain killer shot of something and sent us home with Genti-oph antibiotic eye drops and Tolfed? (it's a little difficult to read the vets writing), which is a pain killer combined with vitamins - yellow colour. Have given the eye drops 3 times now, and this morning when I checked on him one eye was completely gunked up and not open. Both eyes are very inflamed. I bathed his eyes with some cool water and both are now open. I have not used the eyedrops again until I have the advice of others on this forum. The Tolfed? I have not given at all at this stage as I'm worried about giving anything my mouth. (Had another rabbit die when a different vet here gave him the wrong medication). He seems somewhat happy, is eating well, but his respiration does not sound good. No grinding of teeth at this point.

FECAL & URINARY OUTPUT: All seems to be ok

MEDICAL HISTORY: Unneutered. Has always been a snuffly bunny.

DIET: Pellets, green vegetables and hay. Last ate 1/4 cup of pellets last night. All gone by this morning.

OTHER: His eyes are red and gunked up with white goo. His breathing is a little laboured but not strikingly so.


Please if someone could guide me about whether or not I should give him the Tolfed? painkiller I would really appreciate it. Also, because his eye was gunked shut this morning I'm reluctant to put anymore of the eye drops in his eyes too. Is there anything else I can do?

Many thanks


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## JimD (Mar 3, 2011)

I'm hoping someone with a little more experience will jump in here.

I'm not familiar with using either one of those meds.

The Tolfed is a anti-inflammatory, analgesic, and is a type of medication that will prevent or reduce fever by lowering body temperature. 
It seems to mostly be used for cats.
It appears to be made in tablet or injectable form.
Some injectables can be given orally.
It sounds like it's an NSAID...like Ibuprofen.
I'm guessing it would be safe given in the correct dosage.

I can't find any information on the eyedrops.
You could use sterile saline solution instead. Soft contact lens cleaner is a saline solution and is probably safe, too. 


Poor bunny!
Please keep us updated.

We'll be keeping you both in our thoughts and prayers.

ray:


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## angela (Mar 4, 2011)

Please - can anyone give me any further help. I've held off all day giving him eye drops and any of the oral medicine at all for fear of giving him something that will kill him. This afternoon one eye is completely closed with gunk again!!!


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## Flash Gordon (Mar 4, 2011)

ive tried looking up what ur giving to ur bun but im not finding much if any info on them...is there more written on the bottles ..give more info so we can try and help.


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## Flash Gordon (Mar 4, 2011)

read thru this page it has some good info .

fire ant sting on domestic or exotic animals


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## angela (Mar 4, 2011)

ok just got off the phone from the vet (thankfully she spoke english) and the medication is: tolfediene (painkiller taken orally) and gentamycin eyedrops. She assures me that these are OK for rabbits. Anyone know this for sure please. Thanks soooo much.


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## angela (Mar 4, 2011)

Flash Gordan, thank you sooooo much for your responses!
I've just read the article you posted. Really interesting. I'm just going down to the Bunny Barn now to bathe the little guys eyes. Will keep everyone informed on how he's doing. He's still eating really well, pooping and peeing.


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## Flash Gordon (Mar 4, 2011)

def keep us posted..ive been reading up on these fireants and theyve caused alot of blindness in animals..i guess they bite the actual eye over and over again..ack..i hope ur bun didnt have to go thru that..they really say pain management is necesary ...ill look up more on ur medicine..altho im not knowleadgable about it ..ill see what i can find


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## Flash Gordon (Mar 4, 2011)

according to this link ur eye ointment is ok to use on a rabbit..

safe antibiotics for rabbits


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## Flash Gordon (Mar 4, 2011)

i guess with fire ant bites u have to watch out for the secondary infection in the eyes...so u really should be using those eyedrops..
i finally found something on ur tolfediene but its in German..so i googled translation and its not telling me anything about wether its safe for a rabbit...it was given dogs in both pages that i translated...so i really dont know about that pain medicine...if hes eating and pooping ok then maybe hell do ok with out pain management..i dont know..i hope someone else comes on here and helps that knows something about it....


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## angela (Mar 4, 2011)

Thanks. I've just put some in his eyes. One eye is in a horrible condition. Red and bulging. I've managed to bathe it open. Now he's happily eating. Doesn't seem to be bothering him that much, and yet I know that rabbits don't display pain, so I'm ignoring his happy behaviour. There were probably something in the vicinity of 50 ants clinging to his face - up his nose, in his mouth, all over his eyes. Poor little thing wasn't even trying to get away, just sitting there letting them bite him. 

Ok, now I just need to know if it's safe to give rabbits the Tolfediene. Anyone?

I really do appreciate everything you guys are doing. I'm feeling quite stressed at the moment. Thanks


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## Flash Gordon (Mar 4, 2011)

were they biting ON THE EYE?..ooh id be worried about that ..let me find the article.


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## Pipp (Mar 4, 2011)

Poor bunny! Definitely use the drops and the pain meds, trust your vet. Right now she may still be feeling the effect of the pain shot, she may slow down when it wears off. 

Don't give her the pain med until she has food in her stomach and make sure she has been drinking.

Keep her warm and calm and give her warmish fluids (an infant electrolyte replacement drink like Pedialyte would be great) if she needs it. 



sas :clover:


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## Flick (Mar 4, 2011)

Keep giving him the eye drops. Honey has been on Gentamycin several times. I know of at least 4 vets in Houston who have prescribed it for rabbits. It's safe.

I don't know about the pain med, but I'm sure your rabbit needs a pain management drug. You might ask your vet if she would prescribe Meloxicam (Metacam) since you are concerned about giving the other.


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## Flash Gordon (Mar 4, 2011)

tolfediene doesnt seem to be prescribed in the states ..im finding info on it from other countries ..i agree with Flick u either need to use this medicine or ask for metacam ...hows ur bun lookin today?...made me tear up when i read that he just sat there and let the ants bite him...thats horrible.
u said that u need to go down to the Bunny Barn..is there anyway u can monitor ur bun closely?. i would have him inside if i were you and giving him alot of attention,,what he went thru is really bad. if he just sat there and let them bite him he was giving up...u dont want him to do that again..their more prone to give up when left alone.ive been bitten numerous times with fireants it hurts...bad...i couldnt even imagine what it felt like on sensitive areas like my face and eyes...did u check his butt ? cuz they say they attack all the areas without fur first...might wanna check his dupa...poor baby.


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## tonyshuman (Mar 4, 2011)

TBH I think this is a situation in which a steroid needs to be used. I know there is concern of infection in the eye, and steroids are not commonly used in rabbits due to their already weak immune systems, but the reaction in the body to fire ant stings is mostly an immune reaction and reducing that with glucocorticoids would be a good idea. I would ask the vet what they think about adding a steroid to reduce inflammation.

In addition, an antihistamine can be given, like Benadryl. We gave Benjamin benadryl for sneezing that was possibly from allergies. This is less likely to cause the immune system to weaken so it may be a better choice. It could help bring down swelling on the eye by blocking the allergic response to fire ant venom.


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## Wabbitdad12 (Mar 4, 2011)

How is the little guy doing?


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## Flash Gordon (Mar 4, 2011)

*tonyshuman wrote: *


> TBH I think this is a situation in which a steroid needs to be used. I know there is concern of infection in the eye, and steroids are not commonly used in rabbits due to their already weak immune systems, but the reaction in the body to fire ant stings is mostly an immune reaction and reducing that with glucocorticoids would be a good idea. I would ask the vet what they think about adding a steroid to reduce inflammation.
> 
> In addition, an antihistamine can be given, like Benadryl. We gave Benjamin benadryl for sneezing that was possibly from allergies. This is less likely to cause the immune system to weaken so it may be a better choice. It could help bring down swelling on the eye by blocking the allergic response to fire ant venom.


Claire isnt this something to be concerned about with steroids.they say the same thing about rabbits:ive copied and pasted from that link i posted above.:

"Do not use medications containing a corticosteroid on horse eyes
with acute fire ant bites, as the corticosteroid occasionally causes other
eye problems. Instead, for the first 3 to 5 days, use ophthalmic ointments or drops containing
only an antibiotic. After the corneal ulcers caused by bites have epithelialized, a corticosteroid
may be added to hasten healing. Check to see when this has occurred by applying a fluroscein dye to the cornea to see if the epithelial damage has healed.
The eye is the most critical site for fire ant damage. The eyelids may slough along their
margins when enough sting sites are present. Fire ants can also sting the corneal surface.
This causes 1 to 2 mm areas of cloudy edema that can be seen with direct illumination.
Multiple stings on the cornea can create a coalescing ulcer. This may progress from a large,
melting ulcer to protrusion of the Descemet's membrane and rupture of the anterior chamber of the eye."


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## tonyshuman (Mar 4, 2011)

I would not put the steroids in the eye because steroids should not be put in an eye that has any scratches on it. That's one of the big no-nos of medicine--putting steroids in an eye that has scratches--it can lead to rupture of the eye. Sorry I wasn't clear about that. I would give them systemically, ie orally or via injection. An antihistamine is probably a better choice to reduce inflammation in this case since there is a chance of infection occuring, though.


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## Flash Gordon (Mar 4, 2011)

i thought u meant eyes sorry Claire
Angela i told ya there were gonna be people showing up that know their poop...im bowing out now..good luck and please keep us updated ,im very curious how his eyes are going to be once healed.


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## angela (Mar 5, 2011)

Hi everyone,

Just checking in to let you know how Oreo is doing. He's had a good day today - has a good appetite, has been grooming himself, pooping and peeing normally and enjoyed a day out in his exercise pen with the others nearby (not on the grass under any trees this time!). 

I've now begun seriously using the medication that I've been given and already I am seeing some good results. His eyes, particularly the bad one which is pretty much bulging with swelling, are looking a little improved. They changed from being bright red and sore looking to being pale pink. Mostly his eyes are continuing to get gunked up 2-3 times during the day, but I'm just gently wiping it away with a cotton swab and some plain water. Both eyes still have a slight milky film over them. I sure am praying that he doesn't end up blind from all this trauma to his eyes. I guess time will tell.

It would seem that he isn't in a lot of pain now. I will continue to post updates.

Thank you so much for all your help and support during this time of crisis. You have no idea how wonderful it is to be able to connect with an overseas forum like this when you are living in another country far away from western methods and understanding. THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU! ray::hugsquish::hugsquish:


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## jujub793 (Mar 5, 2011)

Wow how scary for you and traumatic for your bun!!!! I hope he heals up good as new!!


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## tonyshuman (Mar 6, 2011)

It is good that he's improving. I hope he continues to move in the right direction. I hope he can regain his sight, but he is lucky to have survived this.


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