# Unexpected Kits!



## Lady_TOX (Dec 17, 2014)

So Im a new rabbit Owner, I just got my first rabbit on the 11th. Two days ago she started nesting, I thought she was a phantom pregnacy. Surely the shelter I work at wouldn't let me adopt a rabbit without letting me know she is pregnant. This morning I welcomed two new Kits (So Far) a little black one and a tiny white one. Im worried that the little white one is ethier a runt or a peanut. Can you help me out? What should I do if she/he is a runt or peanut?? Also how do you tell the sex??


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## madisonl702 (Dec 17, 2014)

Yuki had kits??!! You can't really tell the sex right now. Anyways, we once had a runt in one of our litters(of 4) and it was the only one that survived. Are the babies outside? How old is the mother? They look like they have nice and plump tummies.


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## SouthernNetherlandDwarf (Dec 17, 2014)

Usually peanuts don't survive their first weeks of life and are best to be culled so they don't come as a shock when they die naturally. The little kit doesn't look like a peanut. The only time you can tell the sec is when they're a little older then newborn.The bigger one looks like a blue instead of black or maybe it's the lighting in the picture. I hope all goes well.


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 17, 2014)

Thanks and yes Yuki had kits! I didnt even know she was pregnant when I got her on the 11th from my shelter. I called and they said well, we cant tell if rabbits are pregnant sorry. xC oh wells, there so cute and tiny. Yuki is two years old i believe. Do I have to seperate them when they weaned or is it okay to let mom and kits stay in same cage? Looks like I need a much bigger cage. Im hoping it isnt a peanut that would be sad and I hope they both live, Im not even sure if this is her first litter or not!


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## SouthernNetherlandDwarf (Dec 17, 2014)

Yes you have to seperate them when they are weaned from their mother. After she has weaned them get her fixed so no more accidents happen.


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 17, 2014)

Yeah, I dont want to be a breeder and since she has been with me (six days) she has never been around a male so she must have gotten pregnant before she was even at the shelter (she had been at the shelter since dec 2nd, i got her dec 11.)


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 17, 2014)

Diffently will get them fixed. If I get them fixed will they still need to be seperated? When can they start making babies so I know when to seperate them. If there all girls do I need to seperate then? When can I tell their sexs?


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## ladysown (Dec 17, 2014)

white kit has bulbous head, small ears and a weak rear end. most likely a peanut. Culling ensures it doesn't starve to death.
starvation is in my personal opinion more cruel than quickly culling it. They die regardless.

if your doe has kindled indoors in a contained nest (you can move the entire nest into a box and place it where she had them) MOVE the litter box if necessary. it will help to ensure warmth and safety of surviving kit. 

Depending on the rabbits involved they can breed as early as 6.5 weeks of age. MOST do not but there is more than enough anecdotal evidence (ie Kits born) to prove the possibility.


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## majorv (Dec 17, 2014)

I wouldn't worry about separating them just yet...it'll be awhile. It's important the kits stay warm. If mom pulled hair then make sure the nest is lined with it, and covering them lightly will help. They need to be in a box that's tall enough to keep the kits in but mom can hop in and out. She should nurse them within 24 hours of birth.


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 17, 2014)

So my only worry is that their nest is in her litter, should I move it? If so what should i put in there to make sure there warm and wont die from freezing? Also does anyone else think that the little white one is a peanut? Is there ANY chance of survival for peanuts? He/she is almost the size of his/her sibiling just bit tinier. i made sure mama feed her by putting her on her back and letting the baby feed off of her. making sure she/he gets feed.


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## Sugarbread (Dec 17, 2014)

I don't think that the little white one looks like a peanut tbh. I'd just let nature take it's course and give the little guy a couple days and see what happens. And can you post a photo of the nest she built? Just give momma and the babies some peace and quiet and see how she does with them. Rabbits don't tend to their kits like a dog would tend to it's puppies. They generally feed their kits twice a day, for a couple of minutes.


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 17, 2014)

View attachment ImageUploadedByRabbit Forum1418864202.091376.jpg


She isn't pooping or peeing in there, actually I only see her poop in her cage haven't seen her pee really since she made the best in the litter the kits are under her fur.


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## Sugarbread (Dec 17, 2014)

I would leave it as is, momma looks like she did the best she could, and if she isn't using her litterbox as a litterbox, than the kits are probably fine. Just check on them tomorrow and see if they got fat, little round tummies, and if so, you know momma is doing her job.


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 17, 2014)

The nest **


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## stevesmum (Dec 17, 2014)

Just want to say I hope hope hope they pull through! I was shocked when I read it! You adopted one bunny and got three. I don't know much about kits but I did read that peanuts are a lot smaller than their siblings, very noticeably so, and they seem weak and have little energy by comparison too. but I'd rather leave that up to people who know, I guess I'm just hoping and praying for you that it's going to be a healthy kit. Best of luck and do lots of research! (I'm sure you already are though)


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 17, 2014)

hahaha right, I dont think anyone was a ssuprised as I was. I seriously thought it was a phantom pregnancy! She was nesting but besides that showed no sign of pregnancy bbbuuuttt I am new at this lol. Still not sure if im keeping them or adopting them out. guess it depends on their personality. and if I can lol. Yeah he or she isnt TINY Tiny, Ill post the size difference, but still tiny. She/he (god i need names lol) is actively moving around and stuff and I made sure to see that mama is taking care of them. i even got mama and the tiny one to feed again to make him/her grow. The bigger one does have more energy but this one is trying to walk and moving its head and all of that. When he/she was born I had no idea about Peanuts until i googled runts chances of survival and care then Peanuts popped up and now im a bit freaked, Be sad if she/he died. Anyway to tell if this is mamas first litter or not?


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 17, 2014)

View attachment ImageUploadedByRabbit Forum1418876361.120011.jpg


So this is the size difference between my two babies


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## majorv (Dec 17, 2014)

That's quite a bit of difference. Just wait and see. The litter box may not keep the kits contained for long and its not very big. You'd be surprised how much newborns can move around. If one gets out it'll get cold pretty quick. What's in there besides fur? Ideally, you'd have a base of bedding or hay and then mom's fur on top of that.


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 18, 2014)

Well since I didnt even know she was pregnant, it has litter pellets hay and her fur thats why I was asking wasnt sure if its good for the pellets to be in. and haha they have moved a lot for kits to be born earlier today.


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## Azerane (Dec 18, 2014)

The size different is very striking. It and the very small ears make me lean towards runt, however the hind end doesn't look overly un-formed to me. It's hard to say "time will tell" when a peanut will suffer, however putting down a perfectly healthy runt accidentally thinking it's a peanut is also sad.

A very big surprise indeed, I hope they both stay healthy


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 18, 2014)

Okay I just found one of them out of the nest what should I do overnight to make sure they don't come out of the nest? Should I change the nest to a taller wall?


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## stevesmum (Dec 18, 2014)

There's a good article on rabbit.org called domestic baby bunnies and their mom. Maybe it will help.


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## JBun (Dec 18, 2014)

What a surprise! I'm glad she had everything all ready for them and made them a nice nest. It's likely this isn't a first litter. Not always, but usually first time mom's don't care for the babies very well.

It can be hard to determine a peanut from a runt sometimes, even for experienced breeders. To me it looks like it could possibly be a peanut, but it also looks like it may just be a runt. I think if there is any doubt, that it is best to give it a chance and keep a close eye on it. If it appears to be doing alright and is feeding well, then it's a runt. If it's skinny, lethargic, and not thriving, even if you are assisting it's feedings with mom(if needed), then it's probably a peanut.

That's quite a bit of fur on those babies. Looks like mom must have gone a couple days overdue. Usually they are born without fur. I agree that you are going to need a different nesting box, or you risk them crawling out, getting separated, and cold(not a good thing). I would suggest using a box with sides high enough to keep the babies from crawling out, but low enough that mom can still hop in. A shoe box or other cardboard box will work. For my 2 lb dwarf doe, the nest box was about 9x12x4(front) and 8(back). This gives mom enough room to move around in but small enough to keep the babies from being able to wander off too far from the center of the nest. Next put some carefresh bedding in the bottom if you have it, or you could even do layers of newspaper. This is to absorb any urine. Add any extra hay that might be needed if there isn't much hay in the nest that your doe already made. Next scoop the top layer of the nest that the momma bun made, with the hay, fur, and babies if they are secure in there(or set them aside somewhere safe until done), and set on top in the new nest box. You want there to be a bit of a hollow towards the back of the nest box where the babies can nestle down into the fur to keep warm. Next, place her litter box where you think she is most likely to want to go, and the nest box in the opposite corner, though you may need to switch if she seems to be using the nest box to pee and not the litter box. Hopefully she doesn't do it in both. You want to keep the nest box clean. If the hay is getting soiled then you will want to clean out the soiled parts as needed.












Mom will usually only feed once or twice a day(morning and/or evening), and usually 'ignore' them the rest of the time. You want to check the babies at least morning and evening for full bellies to make sure she is feeding at least once a day, and to make sure mom is cleaning them and stimulating them to pee. If the bellies look full before they have been fed, she may not be stimulating them and you may need to take over using a warm q tip and gently stimulating near the genitals. You may just want to go ahead and do it anyways. I did with my litter just so I knew it was being done and to avoid any problems from occurring if mom wasn't doing it. Also good to check their noses to make sure they aren't crusting over. Be careful when handling the babies. They are quite squirmy and can literally pop right out of your hand. Best to do any handling close to a soft floor.

Full milk belly





You also need to start gradually increasing mom's food over the next week. She will need more pellets while nursing the babies. You are basically working up to unlimited pellets, but also make sure she is eating hay as well and always has it available. The type of pellets you are feeding is going to matter as well as she will need more protein and calcium for nursing. What type is she getting now?

At about 11 days their eyes open. If they aren't open by 14 days, you may need to very gently use a warm cloth to help them open(never force). Check the eyes to make sure they aren't goopy or cloudy. The bunnies also start exploring around this time, and once you can't keep them in the nest, you then remove the nest box. With a smooth plastic cage bottom, you are going to need to keep hay or something on the floor to give the babies traction so they don't develop problems with their legs. They also won't be using a litter box yet, so need something on the floor that will absorb the urine when they pee all over. I used towels(with no holes or loose strings or frayed edges) and just changed them out regularly.

You want to make sure there is soft leafy hay(thick stems are too hard for the babies to eat) for the babies to start munching on. I was worried about digestive issues occurring from pellets too soon, so I was more careful about when I let my babies get to them. I placed mom's dish higher up so the babies couldn't get to them easily, but mom could. They would get the odd one that mom dropped and I would give them a few more each day, but it wasn't until about 4 weeks that they could reach the pellets and were gradually eating more of them, and were eating mostly hay to begin with. I felt this worked best to help their digestive systems adapt to solid food. It's also good to keep checking their bums every day in case they develop mushy poop from the pellets, as the poop can dry on the opening and plug them up.

You may be able to sex them now or in a couple of days. It can be a bit difficult though. Some are more obvious than others. I actually found it even harder as they got older with all the fur in the way.



&#8220;Both pictures of a buck, the one on the left is actual the one on the right is marked in red to make it a little easier to see. There is a little bit of a gap between the penile opening and the anus. This will not be present in the newborn doe.&#8221;



&#8220;This is a doe. The anus and vent will be touching.&#8221;
(http://madhatterrabbits.wordpress.com/2013/01/03/sexing-your-rabbit/)

Weaning usually happens between 5-8 weeks. I like to keep them with mom til 8 weeks if possible, as long as she is tolerating them well. If she is getting fed up with them sooner and starts to nip or bite them, you may have to separate them from mom before 8 weeks, though it would be good if you could still return them to mom just for nursing if she will tolerate it, until they are 8 weeks old. One good thing to have for her in the cage to get away from them pestering her, is a box or something she can hop up on to get away from them for a break.

When to separate the babies, or even mom from babies, depends if you have boys or girls, and how mom does with them in her cage. If you have two does(which you would need to be sure of) and mom is fine with them in her cage and weans them on her own, you may just be able to leave them together with her, until they are old enough to spay and bond. If mom starts getting irritated or fighting starts to occur, you would need to separate. If you have one or two bucks, separate them from mom at 8 weeks, and you may be fine to leave the babies together until 10-12 weeks. I separated mine at 12 weeks. 

And ENJOY! Raising baby bunnies is a fun experience


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## Sugarbread (Dec 18, 2014)

How are the kits doing?


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 18, 2014)

Well they both survived the night, I was making sure momma gave extra feedings to the Tiny one. She was moving a lot less then yesterday though. Went on with my day and just got home, I went to check on them all and the tiny one passed on. :nerves1 *Sigh* I'm okay though. I named her/Him (Thinking its a her) Chloe. The other one is nice and plump though, little fatty! mama is feeding the kit just fine and is still pulling a little hair out of her to make more nest.


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 18, 2014)

JBun: WOW! Thanks for all of that information! It really helped =) thank you so much for taking out the time to write all of that for me!


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## Sugarbread (Dec 18, 2014)

Awe, well nature took its course, rip little bunny &#128591;&#128048;

Keep us updated on the remaining kit! Are you thinking you'll be keeping the kit?


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## stevesmum (Dec 19, 2014)

Sorry to hear about the little one  but very glad the black one is thriving. Keep us posted...


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 22, 2014)

So it's the sixth day being alive soon it should open its eyes! It's a she I believe as well! View attachment ImageUploadedByRabbit Forum1419301358.629725.jpg
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She's getting so big so fast as well! If the other one was still alive I believe I would have not been able to carry both in one hand still x) how or when can you start to tell what type it is? I'm kinda wondering if it's a lop. Since I don't know the dad I guess I will have to wait and see huh?


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## stevesmum (Dec 22, 2014)

She is just precious


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## ladysown (Dec 23, 2014)

it's not black.. if it was the ears would be black inside. eyes up from day 9 to day 12. depends on breed. might be a silver marten in colour.. black or sable. white snip on head means vienna gene most likely present. ears look (at this point) to short to be lops.


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## woahlookitsme (Dec 23, 2014)

Looks blue otter or blue silver marten. Weird that the white marking on the head showed up. There's the Vienna gene in there somewhere. All baby rabbits look alike so you won't be able to tell what might have mated with mom until it's older. Even then it still may not be apparent as rabbits do not breed true when crossed between breeds unlike dogs


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 24, 2014)

She opened her eyes at 7 days old!!! I'm in love lol. Exactly what is the Vienna gene??? I couldn't get a good picture with eyes open though xC View attachment ImageUploadedByRabbit Forum1419400307.491660.jpg
View attachment ImageUploadedByRabbit Forum1419400335.558178.jpg


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## Azerane (Dec 24, 2014)

The vienna gene is the one that produces blue eyes in rabbits, and also gives white blotchy markings on the coat, often in the "dutch" pattern, but it can be something as simple as a white blaze, or single paw on an otherwise uniformly coloured rabbit. A blue-eyed white rabbit has the vienna gene passed on from both parents.


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## BunBun02 (Dec 24, 2014)

Are you selling her (when she's ready) if so how much and where do you live


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## woahlookitsme (Dec 24, 2014)

She's adorable! Color is Vienna marked blue otter. Can't wait to see her at 2 weeks of age! If you can believe it they get even cuter when more fluff comes in!


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## JBun (Dec 24, 2014)

It probably opened it's eyes so early because it seemed to have been born a few days late, judging by the amount of fur it was born with.

I agree, they just get cuter! Wait til it starts crawling out of the nest(any day now) and taking it's first steps and hops. I have a few videos from my baby buns growing up. I love to watch them sometimes and remember how adorable they were and how fun it was raising them.


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 25, 2014)

I'm still unsure if I will sell her, and she seems to be getting out of nest already she wants out and not to stay in nest, lol and I figured that was the case. Is it okay to let her out of the nest now? She seems to want out badly. I've caught her out like three times today I've put balls in the way of the area to exit nest to block her from getting out. and I've been taking tons of vids of her walking all shakily already lol she's getting much steadier


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## majorv (Dec 25, 2014)

She's okay to explore the cage area, but watch her. Kits are good escape artists!


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 25, 2014)

So if I let her walk around is it only for a little then put her back in or just let her roam freely


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## woahlookitsme (Dec 25, 2014)

Only for little bits of time. Don't let her roam freely or she could get into some trouble


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 29, 2014)

Lol she's smart she moves the toys I put in front of the entry of her nest and gets out. View attachment ImageUploadedByRabbit Forum1419892498.632969.jpg
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New pics of the kit!!!


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 29, 2014)

View attachment ImageUploadedByRabbit Forum1419892737.874391.jpg
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Also she has a cute mark on both her back paws.


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## stevesmum (Dec 29, 2014)

Lol that is just about the cutest thing ever.


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 31, 2014)

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Really looking like a rabbit now!! Such an adorable little thing, can't keep the baby in the nest it keeps moving the toys and getting out so I've given up and just let the baby roam in the cage. Watch it tho so it doesn't cause trouble, mama doesn't seem to mind in fact they cuddle a lot. It's funny I love watching the baby feed


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 31, 2014)

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## Lady_TOX (Dec 31, 2014)

The baby is kinda hidden


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 31, 2014)

When is it okay to get her spayed since she just had her baby two weeks ago?


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## JBun (Dec 31, 2014)

Awww, such a cute little fluffball :inlove: You must be loving every second of this. Babies are so much fun.

She's fine not staying in the nest anymore. Pretty impossible at this age to keep her in anymore. You can just go ahead and remove it if it is still the nest with fur and stuff. It looks like she prefers snuggling with mom anyways. The only thing to watch would be if she is small enough to fit through the bars of the cage. You don't want her getting stuck. Could zip tie some cardboard pieces along the lower edge if that's the case, to prevent any accidents.

You want to wait til the baby is weaned to get the mom spayed. Then if you still keep them together after, just watch that mom still accepts the baby being around.


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 31, 2014)

The baby is trying to steal the mommas treat, a cranberry orange flavored flavor cookie I got from petco today. Yesterday Yuki made me laugh. Changed up my room to give her a lot more space and so when I finished I gave her some carrots and celery. Didn't let her finish both big sticks tho so I put them on the coffee table in my room next thing I know she's up there eating them x)


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 31, 2014)

I do love it, it's interesting to see them grow so fast in such a short amount of time. Two weeks ago I could fit both of the babies in my hand now she doesn't even fit in my hand. And then she is adorable and I love seeing Yuki being a good momma! Right the kit has taken up to running around the cage and jumping it's so cute and she's much steadier now it jumping and hopping around


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 31, 2014)

The kit is also using the litter now, I'm shocked. Though I do have a question is it normal to have the kit when she is moving to shake it's head randomly like it got a shiver? Also when she jumps it's like she's freaking out sometimes is that normal I can't really describe it good


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## JBun (Dec 31, 2014)

You mean a head binky? That's a normal thing for happy exited bunnies. And just so cute!


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## Lady_TOX (Dec 31, 2014)

So thats a binky?! LOL Ive never seen one before! omg that is just adorable then xD shes been doing it a lot today!


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## Lady_TOX (Jan 1, 2015)

So I see what you mean by the Vienna Gene now, She has the streak on her head, and then the little patches on her back feet. Now Im thinking that she might have blue eyes too, as much as her eyes open its black but sometimes when she is looking a certain way it looks blue. Can her eyes be lue and its just not showing yet? or is the white part in our eyes just have a blueish tint?


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## Lady_TOX (Jan 1, 2015)

I got a vid of her binkying but can't post it on here I think I'll make a page on Facebook so you all can see the pics and vids on her


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## Lady_TOX (Jan 3, 2015)

These two are adorable <3 it's cuddle time for these two. View attachment ImageUploadedByRabbit Forum1420336455.772811.jpg
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