# ND or dwarf hotot with holland lop



## heatherv (Nov 29, 2008)

[align=left]I was wondering if you could help me come to a decision.[/align]
I won't be moving into an apartment until august 09. The condo I'm in now doesn't allow pets.

I'd be getting 2 pet rabbits...a holland lop and a netherland dwarf or aholland lop and dwarf hotot.

which would be better in your opinion? (they'll be male and female pair, neutered of course-kept seperate but together in a divided NIC cage with a run)



I've been researching for months on raising a rabbit, rabbit-proofing, rabbit diseases, etc; I found a local vet in the area, and I found a few potential apartments in the area that are rabbit friendly, 400-800 sqft, 1 bdroom or studio. I'm prepared and ready...I just don't know which pair would be best between the 3 I like.

I love and have owned holland lops but have been looking into NDs and dwarf hotots as well recently. I've read the NDs have a tendency to be spunky and dont like to be handled. In contrast I've read it depends on the NDs and that they vary in personality like people and how they were raised/treated. I think it's a combo of both.

Dwarf hotots- I can't find much about. I know they are bigger then NDs so I figure they might no be as jumpy as NDs. What would the best breed in your opinionbetween these 3 for an apartment owner. 
It will just be me and my husband, no kids, no other pets.


Heather:?


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## Leaf (Nov 29, 2008)

My personal preference would be a holland lop and a netherland dwarf.

I'm very hesitant to say much about the dwarf hotots because I may be wrong (and apologize if I am) but I think I've read they can have more than the usual ammount of health problems rabbits normally encounter.


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## tonyshuman (Nov 29, 2008)

temperament isn't very well correlated with breed in rabbits, like it is in dogs. i have both nethies and a holland mix, and they're great. my holland is a bit calmer than the dutch and the nethies, but the nethies are very snuggly (especially with each other). i'm glad that you're thinking about a pair because they are so much happier in pairs. are you looking to get from a shelter or a breeder? i reccomend a shelter (not only because all of my bunnies are from them and i volunteer at them) for a few reasons, not the least of which being that you are saving a life and giving a bunny that someone else has given up on a second chance. some shelters also have bonded pairs already, which are hard to place (because most people only want one), but it makes it easier. bonding bunnies can be very difficult! our latest bunny was a stray at a shelter, and she was pulled off the euthanization list by someone at my shelter and then transferred to my shelter, where we adopted her (Frida). 

Edit: forgot to comment on hotots: i've heard of them having more digestive issues like megacolon, and that being congenital.


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## juliew19673 (Nov 30, 2008)

My bun, to the best of my ability, this board and my vet is a mix between a Hotot and a Rex and he is pretty "chill". I do not know of the English Hotots other than what I've heard of on this board, but the Rexes were problamatic that i knew - very aggressive. The Nethies seem to have a TON of pesonality and opinion,but the lops seems to be just playful and not so "opinionated" so might be a good mix.

I think alot about buns IS their breed but also seems to be their home and setup, so just spend time with the bun before hand and see how you both get along with each other and how much energy they have.. All buns need ALOT Of attention (social creatures) so keep that in mind.. 

Post back when the "stork lands"..


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## heatherv (Nov 30, 2008)

I will be gladly let you all know:biggrin2:


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## Flashy (Nov 30, 2008)

Have you thought about bonding them and having them living fully together? That can be great for buns to have a bonded pair. If you chose to do that you would have to look at personalities as opposed to breeds, and find two bunnies that when grown up and fixed were bondable (this is easiest done by rescuing because you know exactly what you are getting if they are adult and fixed).

I have a hoard of nethies so I would always say a nethie, and yeh, I believe Hotots can have gut problems quite regularly.


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## NorthernAutumn (Nov 30, 2008)

Personally, I'd prefer to have the rabbits living together. It makes run-time SO much easier... Right now, I negotiate between Slatey and the couple. If the relationship between Slatey and Stu was better, they would be able to play together without supervision. 

For me, I'd go find a bonded pair in the shelter. Someone else has done the hard work!
May I ask why you intend to have them caged separately? If they are fixed, a bonded pair will be quite happy living in the same cage.


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## heatherv (Nov 30, 2008)

I didn't get into to detail cause I didn't want the message to be to long.

But they would be caged seperately at first until I bond them if they are not bonded all ready. I plan on either buying from a reputable breeder or adopt. I added a couple adoption sites in WA to my bookmark so I can look closer to August. 

If the pair is already bonded and I KNOW they will not get mad at each other then I will keep them in one roomy cage w run. I just figured 2 bunnies together (while I'm at school or out of the house) even bonded might be moody or have bad days, depending on their personality...just like bros or sistrs arent always the best of friends or may need their space...so I'll just keep and eye on the two I get, get to know them (hopefully an already bonded pair) and see if they are okay being left together.


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## NorthernAutumn (Nov 30, 2008)

No worries! We like long messages (and lots of pictures too  )

Sounds like a plan. Honestly, I haven't had my bonded pair scrap since they've been together. Obviously, less stress if they've been bond partners for a long period of time. 
I'm sure someone else has a more concrete opinion on that...
I agree with the other posters about the comment on bonded pairs in shelters having a hard time finding a home. It would be a lot easier on you to have an already-bonded pair. Bonding can be troublesome, and sometimes doesn't work, period.


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## tonyshuman (Dec 1, 2008)

Glad to hear you're thinking of adopting. If a pair is fully bonded, they won't hurt each other when you're not around. I have heard of pairs spontaneously breaking the bond, but that's VERY rare. I actually really wanted to bond my guys to someone so that they would have someone to spend time with while i was gone (i work long and erratic hours). Once you're sure they won't fight, they're pretty much fine. My guys may have the occasional thumping fest or start humping each other to put the submissive bunny in his place, but they don't nip each other so there's no worry keeping them together when i'm not around. It took about 2 weeks for tony and muffin to be that way, and frida and benjamin only took 1 week. However, trying to add benjamin to muffin and tony was impossible--weeks of bunny dates in the bathtub led to no success--that's why we got frida to keep him company. Tony was never going to be his friend! Bunnies can be strange like that, so it's easiest to get an already bonded pair or "let the bunny choose" their bond-mate. Muffin and Frida were both chosen by their men on "bunny dates" at the local shelter. I was worried that I wouldn't bond with them myself, if we let Ben/Tony choose, but that hasn't been the case at all.


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## Flashy (Dec 1, 2008)

It's great you want to have a bonded pair 

Bunnies can and do divorce (I've come across more than a few pairs/groups), but it is normall for a reason, and often can be picked up beforehand. Also, some bunnies have a stormy relationship and chasing and nipping is part of that, but that is not fighting. If you get two neutered rescue rabbits then you know what you are getting because if you buy two babies from a breeder, or even two unfixed adults, their personalities will change once neutered/spayed and you risk having them not bonded, and just having two buns, so I would always recommend rescuing if you can.

If they get annoyed then if the cage is big enough they will probably take themselves off somewhere else, as opposed to fight (which is a risk in a too small cage). But yes, if they divorce there is normally a reason, like one is ill, a new smell in the house, etc, so it comes down to knowing your buns, which, when you get them, you will start to do, and obviously the longer you have them the more you will know them


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## kherrmann3 (Dec 1, 2008)

Nethies can be snuggly (my Toby is some times, well, when he wants head pets), BUT they can also be super-good at getting into mischief. They are very entertaining and have outgoing personalities. Toby is a great bun, don't get me wrong, but he does get on my nerves some times... Like today, he got packing tape stuck on his foot while exploring my closet, promptly ran away from the offending tape-monster, then sat under my bed thumping. It was great *eyeroll* They're excellent chewers, too


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## swanlake (Dec 1, 2008)

personally, i would adopt, but i work with a rabbit rescue so i see a lot of buns come in, and its sad to me.

ANYWAYS! i once fostered a holland lop, MAN would i have LOVED to keep him. such a doll and snuggle bunny! right now i have a mini lop and is LAZY.

as far as the dwarfs go, never had a dwarf hotot. i do have a nethie though, although she might be more of a mix. she still has those tiny ears though. she does not like people. will run away if i try to pet her, she only lets my brother pick her up. she is also very teritorial, she recently took on a flemmie in a spat. though, she has been through a lot. she was dumped with her buddy by her first owners at the rescue. i then adopted her. then about two to three months later, her bff died. . she has a new bf now though.







here is my wee one.

although, she does have AMAZING litterbox skills

and i still love her even though she doesn't like me


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## tonyshuman (Dec 1, 2008)

both of my nethies are little princesses, by the way. just this morning i woke up to Frida sitting on a pillow on the floor. she was right in the middle, as if the floor was far to hard for her royal bum. ben does this too.:biggrin2:


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## kherrmann3 (Dec 1, 2008)

Aww, I wish Toby was more proper! He just loafs around on the floor. He NEVER lays on the bed. I made him a pet bed, and he promptly pee'd in it. He does like to scoot his pillow across the floor, though, and dig at towels. No sleeping in them, just moving them.

Oh, from my experience, Nethie's get into odd places (I found Toby behind the couch, stuck. All four paws were off the floor like he jumped and got wedged between the couch back and the wall).


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## Little Bay Poo (Dec 1, 2008)

*heatherv wrote:*


> I've read the NDs have a tendency to be spunky and dont like to be handled. In contrast I've read it depends on the NDs and that they vary in personality like people and how they were raised/treated. I think it's a combo of both.


We have two Nethies, the one that we've raised since 3 months has a much bigger attitude...and the one who spent 2 years in a breeder cage with almost no human interaction is as sweet as can be. I had written a while back that we had one really sweet one (Ronnie) and one not so nice one (Billy) but I am pleased to say that Billy is finally coming around. I think it just takes time and effort with some bunnies, as well as waiting for them to mellow out with age. Billy does not like to be pet and will run away, but if he's chillin on the bed or couch and you put your hand out to pet him, he will put his head down and just stay there. He also likes to climb on people and sit in my lap while I'm doing homework. Pretty much every notebook, paper, and text now has chew marks all over it from Billy trying to help with my studies . Overall they've both turned out to be very nice bunnies.

I have only read about Dwarf Hotots, never owned one, but I would be hesitant like others who have said they are prone to digestive issues.


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## naturestee (Dec 1, 2008)

Welcome to the forum!

Personally I don't think it's very easy to categorize rabbit personalities by breed. They sometimes fit but often they don't. Honestly the breed with the most consistent personalities- at least as far as those I've met- are Dutch. Silly, goofy, lovey Dutch. And they tend to be talkers too!

My Nethie/Polish girl Mocha is a snotty little princess. I love her but I don't know how I raised such an obstinant little thing since she's been with me since 8 weeks. She's also highly aggressive to other rabbits (except the Dutch love of her life) and would love nothing more than to tear my other rabbits limb from limb. Seriously. And she smacks her Dutch lover on the nose when she sees him flirting with any other animal- rabbit or cat.

I also have a dwarf hotot. She and her sister (my avatar, she passed away last year) came from a past of neglect and abuse and took a long time to trust me. My remaining girl, Fey, is a shy, sweet lover who likes to run and play. Her sister Sprite was also very playful and loved toys. She was both a lover AND a fighter. First time Isaw her she slapped my hand, growled, and softly bit me to scare me away. She never got over her fear of hands but at least her biting turned to licks. She loved licking me and playing little games with me and the toys. She could be a little aggressive too but not anywhere near as bad as Mocha.

I've also met two dwarf hotots at the shelter where I volunteer. One was a snuggly darling, the other was a shy, fairly aggressive girl. Although it is hard to tellfrom the shelter environment how aggressive a rabbit will be when they get home. Most seem to calm down once they're less stressed. I can't say much about nethies because most that end up in the shelter here are actually Polish, another very nice dwarf breed that tend to be a little more calm/less aggressive.

Several others have mentioned it, but I'll say more because I have direct experience with it. Dwarf hotots often have ahealth problem sometimes called Megacolon or Cow Pile Syndrome that is caused by genetic problems in their intestines. It is not treatable but it can be managed to some extent with a strict diet. Some individuals will have more problems than others. Sprite died because of it. She had always been more sensitive than Fey. One day she got a very sudden and extremely severe GI problem and nothing my vet did could help her. She was three years old.

The best diet for a megacolon bun depends on the individual. Almost always they need extremely small amounts (Fey gets 2 Tbs per day) of low-protein, high-fiber pellets like Oxbow timothy pellets, tons of grass hay, and absolutely no alfalfa. Fey does best with a large amount and variety of fresh veggies but others don't tolerate them at all. She also gets small supplements like flax and sunflower seeds (extremely tiny amount) andfresh or frozen cranberries. I have a hard time keeping enough weight on her though.

My advice is to choose your pets based on personality. Rescues are the best, especially if the rabbits are in a foster home where you can see what their real personality is like.Talk to rescue people and ask about finding two smallbreed rabbits, preferably bonded (some will also bond them for you). In my area, shelter and rescue rabbits are most often smaller than 5 lbs and holland lops, dwarfs of various types/mixes, and mini rex are pretty common.

It's too bad you aren't in WI! I have some lop/rex mix babies that I fostered for the shelter, they don't look like they'll be bigger than 3-4 lbs. Adoptions are soooooo slow right now.


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## naturestee (Dec 1, 2008)

One more thing- if you do get a boy and a girl, make sure at least one of them (preferably the girl, boys have active sperm for 1 month + after neutering) is speutered before bringing them home. I can't tell you how many people have had accidental litters this way. Most don't realize that rabbits can actually mate through cage wire when they really, really want to. I have a foster-turned-permanent baby bun from this exact scenario.


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## pamnock (Dec 1, 2008)

*Leaf wrote: *


> My personal preference would be a holland lop and a netherland dwarf.
> 
> I'm very hesitant to say much about the dwarf hotots because I may be wrong (and apologize if I am) but I think I've read they can have more than the usual ammount of health problems rabbits normally encounter.



Having raised Dwarf Hotot for many years, I generally don't recommend them as pets because they are less hardy than other breeds.

Pam


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