# Head tilt, rolling... parasite???



## allydp (Jan 5, 2012)

So I have a 7 week old dwarf bunny I got for christmas, I took her to the vet to make sure she was okay, & then later that day my bf noticed she was leaning her head to her right & it kept getting worse the next day. So two days later I took her back to the vet & they said they thought it could be a parasite, so they took blood & gave me medicine to give her (which I have) but it hasn't been doing anything & idk if it could maybe be anything else. Im just scared, because she's still leaning to her right side & she rolls in a circle sometimes & rolls down from her second level of her cage. Anyone have any idea?


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## NorthernAutumn (Jan 5, 2012)

I am going to re-name your topic a bit so people will know what we will be discussing 

I will also move this to the Infirmary...
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_forum.php?id=16

Please fill out this form (just copy and paste into your next post): http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=44529&forum_id=16


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## NorthernAutumn (Jan 5, 2012)

Also, please write out the full names of the medicine 

Based on your brief description, it sounds like it may be E. cuniculi or torticollis aka head tilt.
Did the vets mention either of those terms?


For starters though, block off the second level of the cage. 
She needs to be on only one level right now, so she can't fall and hurt herself. Make some bumpers out of old towels, and put them around the cage base to protect her. 

Is she able to walk normally at all?

RO Lagomorph Library: Head Tilt/Torticollis
RO Lagomorph Library: E. cuniculi


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## allydp (Jan 5, 2012)

All that is on the medicine bottle is panacur liquid & she told me to give her. 2cc everyday for 14 days. & she said she thinks its ecuniculi, which was why she did the blood test to double check. & the second level isn't hight at all & I already put towels on the bottom floor, because when she would jump in she would hit herself, so I also built her a ramp, but she still seems to try to jump in & out.


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## allydp (Jan 5, 2012)

& her walking is normal her head just tilts to the side, she's normal aside from that.


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## NorthernAutumn (Jan 5, 2012)

Sorry hon, I really encourage you to take the second level out, or block it off... even things that don't seem high should be removed in this type of situation. Don't really need to be dealing with a broken leg or other injury plus this, right?

Did the blood tests come back yet? If not, when are they coming in?

Did the bun come from a petshop or breeder?

Excellent post from one of the infirmary moderators (Randy) about E.C.: Randy's take on EC and treatment

E.Cuniculi Treatment Success Stories - Kathy Smith


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## allydp (Jan 5, 2012)

sorry forgot about this.

IMMEDIATE INFORMATION: 


Location

Description (Breed, color, weight) dwarf rabbit, black, 1.09 pounds.

Age 7 weeks

Sex female

Concise Summary of the Rabbit's Condition: head tilt & rolling.



ADDITIONAL INFORMATION / CHECK LIST: (Please fill in relevant info).

Fecal and Urinary Output

- are the bunny's poops and pees normal? yes,
- when did they last use their litterbox? all time.
- any unusual behavior? straining to pee? unusual litter habits? no.
- what litter and/or bedding do you use? carefresh natural

Medical History 

- spayed/neutered? no.
- has s/he been to the vet or been sick before? last wednesday for a checkup& friday about the head tilt & rolling.
- is s/he on any medications? panacur

Diet 

- what specifically does your bunny eat? hay from the hrs & pellets.
- when and what did s/he eat last? hat.
- any changes in the way s/he eats? (ie: not eating a particular food, odd chewing motions, etc) no.


Other

- movement - any unusual movements? Is s/he hopping normally? she's completely normal aside from her head tilt.
- is the rabbit molting? i dont know what molting is.
- any weight loss? no.
- any sign of drooling? wet face? not that ive seen
- runny eyes? no, but she has crusties on the corners of her eyes.
- wet nose? coughing? sneezing? no.
- is s/he breathing normally yes.

Additional

- any plants, chocolate or other substances within reach? no.
- has the rabbit been outdoors? no.
- any other pets? if so, have they been ill? no.



i haven't gotten a phone call from the vet yet, so i was going to call tomorrow to see if theyve come back yet. & my boyfriend got her from a breeder in jamul, ca.
i'm just nervous & scared she's not going to be okay.


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## NorthernAutumn (Jan 5, 2012)

Molting : losing hair. Is she shedding a lot?
Looking forward to response from the infirmary mods.

While you are waiting for response, you might want to read some of the articles in the links I posted further up thread... Good medical information and personal experiences of other owners.

I hear you... This is a challenging situation, for sure.
It would be a really good idea to let the breeder know what is going on, as they may have a parasite moving through their herd.
They may also offer you compensation in some way.

This is an aggressive illness that requires fast paced treatment to prevent the condition from getting worse


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## SnowyShiloh (Jan 5, 2012)

Did the vet look in her ears? If she has an ear infection the Panacur will do nothing to help her. My bunny had this very illness over the summer and it took him almost 2 months to recover but he did. He was on antibiotics the whole time along with Penicillin injections weekly.


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## NorthernAutumn (Jan 5, 2012)

Do you have that thread handy, Shiloh?


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## allydp (Jan 5, 2012)

Oh no she's not shedding.
my bf already talked to her she said shed replace her. =/

& the vet did she said one ear looked a little red, but she didn't think that's what it was.


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## NorthernAutumn (Jan 5, 2012)

If it IS E.c., the Panacur has to go for at least 28 days (as that is the lifecycle of the parasite). 2 weeks isn't going to do it.

The vet should have assessed for ear infection... between that and giving you too little Panacur, I'm not sure I have a lot of confidence in her :/

Is your vet listed here?: http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_forum.php?id=9

If not, these are some vets in your area that have been recommended by other bunny owners: 
*Dr. Jeffrey Jenkins* (HRS, PetBunny)
* Dr. Todd Cecil *(PetBunny)
* Avian & Exotic Animal Hospital*
2317 Hotel Circle South
* San Diego, CA*
(619) 260-1412
Recommended by: Cindy Fisher
Submitted: 2/06

*Eastlake Village Veterinary Clinic* 
Dr. Ixchel Mosley
2260 Otay Lakes Road Suite 113
Chula Vista 91915
(619) 482-9100

Here are some more rabbit vets suggested by the San Diego HRS: http://sandiegorabbits.org/health/vetlist.html

An article on how to find a good vet: http://www.rabbit.org/faq/sections/vet.html

I would really encourage getting a second opinion from one of the vets listed above...


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## allydp (Jan 5, 2012)

She gave me some for 14 days until the blood test came back. & yes she's on that list as well as on the house rabbits society web site.


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## NorthernAutumn (Jan 5, 2012)

Awesome - that's a relief


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## allydp (Jan 5, 2012)

Yeah & a girl I work with used to take her rabbit to that vet as well. 
I just hope nothing is serious with her. =/


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## Jacki-Small-Pet-Select (Jan 5, 2012)

So sorry to hear about your bunny. You've been given some really good advice on here, these people know what they're talking about!

Let us know what the blood test results come back as - and I'm sure everyone is keeping their fingers crossed that your little bunny will be okay.

Best of luck,
Small Pet Select


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## Bunnylova4eva (Jan 5, 2012)

Praying for your bunny-I had a head tilt bunny for quite some time last year, and I can totally sympathize-it is a tough illness to deal with in a bunny. 

If the rolling gets really bad, (or just any rolling) you may consider padding the cage. Roll towels and put them all around. Otherwise you risk injury to the bunnies back which isn't something you want to deal with. 

Make sure the bunny is eating really well-if you notice appetite drop, try to get some Oxbow Critical Care to feed your bunny.


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## JadeIcing (Jan 5, 2012)

I've dealt with head-tilt more than I would care to admit. Is it just blood work you are waiting on? Sadly a bun so young there are a lot of meds you can't use. I would make sure she can't get to the second floor I have seen bunnies fall and break their back from landing wrong.


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## allydp (Jan 5, 2012)

Yeah, its just the blood work, I should get a call tomorrow about the results, & I took off her second level. But with the ramp my bf made her so she can get in & out of her cage herself, she doesn't use it she jumps from the corner & today she got stuck in the corner & kept rolling over. =/ idk how to make her one that shell use so she doesn't get hurt.


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## SnowyShiloh (Jan 5, 2012)

This is the link to Ned's thread: http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=66773&forum_id=16

I don't understand why the vet is convinced it's from a parasite. Ned's ears were checked out by two vets a few days apart and neither could see anything wrong at all with them but they both believed it was an inner ear infection, which is something you cannot always see. Ned's symptoms were much less severe than your bunny's, too. One of my rabbits died from EC and even knowing that, they thought it was an ear infection. I think they were right too because it went away with antibiotics. He did get Panacur just in case but I think the antibiotics made him better. One day he got his antibiotics a a few hours later than normal (I think we were refilling his prescription) and his tilt, which had appeared to be gone, returned during that time.

Have you considered taking her to a different vet? I know how hard it is, especially when you JUST got the bunny and understandably think she should be perfectly healthy.


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## allydp (Jan 5, 2012)

I have the panaculr or however you spell it that's what ive been giving her. Aside from her head tilted & her rolling she completely normal she still runs around & eats EVERYTHING. She looked in her ears & said one a little redder than the first time I took het, but it wasn't anything she was too worried about. When she calls with the blood tests ill ask her. & that's why im so worried she's my first bunny & im scared I may have done something wrong.


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## JadeIcing (Jan 5, 2012)

Ringo never stopped eatting even at his worse he tried to eat.


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## Sweetie (Jan 6, 2012)

I hope that your bunny gets better soon. I haven't dealt with head tilt but I understand how scary this is. My vet thought that Prince had EC so he took blood tests and it came back negative.

Please keep us all updated on your bunny. I hope things get better for you and your bunny.


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## allydp (Jan 6, 2012)

Yeah, she hasn't stopped eating at all.


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## NorthernAutumn (Jan 6, 2012)

I think you had better call the office and make another appointment, as you will need one to make the change in treatment, rather than waiting for them to call you... the blood test may take longer than expected, and this has already been going on since the 27th, right?

I know it seems pushy, but I would be calling them asking for updates on the blood test. This kind of situation can't wait.

From what JadeIcing and SnowyShiloh are saying, your bunny needs to be looked at for ear infection ASAP, and start antibiotics (if she DOES have an ear infection). 

The longer it takes to diagnose and start the treatment, the harder it will be to cure .

Can you make an appointment for tomorrow or the day after, to check more closely for ear infection?


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## JadeIcing (Jan 6, 2012)

The ear infections can sometimes be so deep that you can't see it.


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## Bunnylova4eva (Jan 6, 2012)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> The ear infections can sometimes be so deep that you can't see it.



Yeah that. ^



My bunny had an ear infection, but once it progressed into head tilt, then they started trying to tell me she had parasite, after having swabbed her ear and finding infection. We did all the bloodwork, but didn't get it back tillwe had herput down because she'd been so misserable for so long and getting worse. Guess what the bloodwork said? No parasites. She'd had a deep ear infection, but they wouldn't treat it until we did the bloodwork-they wanted to treat for parasites. So yeah. I'd be sure, maybe insist on having the ear swabbed for infection (that's what I'd do). If it looked a little red, then there's a good chance she's been scratching it, meaning its bothing her. I suppose it could be EC but if you don't see improvement don't just assume it to be then.


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## allydp (Jan 6, 2012)

She's been messing with her ears, but nothing more than normal.


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## allydp (Jan 6, 2012)

I let her run around just now & she popped on the floor, but it wasn't normal, its was like three shiny squishy together, & she did it twice.


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## Bunnylova4eva (Jan 6, 2012)

like cecotrophs? did it look sort of like a bunch of grapes?


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## allydp (Jan 6, 2012)

Kinda, but shiny & gooy


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## Bunnylova4eva (Jan 6, 2012)

do they smell especially terrible? 

I'm guessing its cecals-droppings that rabbits usually eat. It might have something to do with the Panacur you're giving (that's the one right?) Bunnies have a very sensitive tummy and stuff can throw it off right away. Any other diet changes, treats etc recently?


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## allydp (Jan 6, 2012)

Idk I didn't smell them. 
No she's eating hay & pellets & everyday I give her a treat. Same as before.


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## Bunnylova4eva (Jan 7, 2012)

Usually cecals smell really strong-you wouldn't need to intentionally smell them (I wouldn't!) Maybe bunny is just having some digestional problems due to the meds. Keep a close eye on her.


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## allydp (Jan 7, 2012)

I called the vet yesterday & they called the lab that does the blood work & they said it could take up to 14 days to find out the results. =/


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## allydp (Jan 7, 2012)

& a question about clipping her nails. Where should I stop? I barely trimmed her nails the other day but they're long I just don't want to cut too short.


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## Jacki-Small-Pet-Select (Jan 8, 2012)

Completely agree with the above posts. You need to push your vet about the blood results. And don't be scared to go elsewhere for a second opinion.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Small Pet Select


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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Jan 8, 2012)

allydp wrote:


> & a question about clipping her nails. Where should I stop? I barely trimmed her nails the other day but they're long I just don't want to cut too short.



Inside the nail is the quick a blood vessel and you may or may not be able to see depending on the nail. My kids all have dark nails so I only just clip a bit off the top so I don't hit quick. I heard you can shine a light on the nail you can see the quick.


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## allydp (Jan 8, 2012)

I called them & they called the lab & the lab said it can take up to 14 days to get the results back, & I was thinking of taking her to another place & have them look for an ear infection. 
Yeah, I trimmed the tips, because I was scared to hurt her.


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## Bunnylova4eva (Jan 9, 2012)

The good news is usually the blood work doesn't take quite as long as they say it can. At least with mine I tested for E. Cuniculi, Pasturella and did a full blood panel and it took 6 days even though they said it'd be longer.

Yes, I'd recomend having them check for infection-for them to swab Jelly's ear I think it was only about $40.00 - so worth it. (Unless the infection is only really deep down in which case swabbing won't tell much)


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## allydp (Jan 9, 2012)

Well, its already been a week & three days. =/ 
yeah, im going to consider taking her to a different vet to see what they say.


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## oryctolaguslady (Jan 10, 2012)

I've nursed three rabbits through head tilt, 2 with serious head tilt. Even if the rabbit tests positive for EC it does not mean that the neurological symptoms are necessarily caused by EC. In my personal experience, head tilt is often caused by a middle/inner ear infection. These infections can be difficult to get rid of - they may require that the rabbit be on antibiotics up to 8 weeks. Some vets prescribe Zithromax for inner/middle ear infections. My vet treated for both EC and bacterial infection in my rabbits with head tilt.

The good news is that rabbits can be successfully nursed through head tilt. One of mine recovered completely, and although the other two had permanent head tilt due to damage to the inner ear from the bacterial inner ear infection, they are healthy and happy rabbits despite the head tilt and adjusted quite well to living with a tilted head.


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## NorthernAutumn (Jan 10, 2012)

I agree, new vet. This one is taking way too long.
Probably should call in and ask if they have results yet just in case...

Blood test and ear swab are in order...

Good luck! I left a list of vets back on the first page... hopefully that may be helpful. 
Please let us know what the new vet says 

Thinking of you both...


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## allydp (Jan 10, 2012)

Sooo, I called the vet the results are in, but the vet is off today so they wont tell me. :X:X:X


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## allydp (Jan 10, 2012)

-___-


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## Bunnylova4eva (Jan 10, 2012)

uhhuh, I know. They seem to take a.l.a.p. [As LONNG As Possible] 

I was getting quite ancy with my bunny and before we even got the results back she had to be put down. It kinda felt like a waste of money. When I took her to be put down I asked for her to call once the got the results in still but it was pretty sad.


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## allydp (Jan 10, 2012)

She's supposed to call tomorrow, then im going to call another vet & make an appointment to take her there I just can't decide which vet.


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## allydp (Jan 11, 2012)

So I got the phone call, & she does have e. Culnicili, & they said its moderate severe & the lady at the desk told me that on a scale from 1-100 its about an 80. So she wants me to take her back in & see if we can up the dosage.


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## JadeIcing (Jan 13, 2012)

To get a clear reading on EC my understanding is you have to do several titter test over time to confirm. Also with EC you will see other signs before tilt. EC is not something you can get rid of as far as I understand. It is just something you manage.


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## Bunnylova4eva (Jan 13, 2012)

Here's an article I found helpful with my head tilt bunny-I gave a copy to our vet as well.

http://www.barbibrownsbunnies.com/ecuniculi.htm


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## allydp (Jan 13, 2012)

She gave her the same medicine she had & another medicine just incase she does have an ear infection. Idr the name of hand.


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## allydp (Jan 13, 2012)

& did your head tilt bunny ever get better?


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## JadeIcing (Jan 14, 2012)

*Bunnylova4eva wrote: *


> Here's an article I found helpful with my head tilt bunny-I gave a copy to our vet as well.
> 
> http://www.barbibrownsbunnies.com/ecuniculi.htm


I would never follow this. I don't agree with a LOT of what that says. I would also be concerned with a vet that follows that. :expressionless


Some have some while better do have a tilt still. Some bunnies bounce back some don't. Each bunny is different more so because the cause can be different but also because of the bunnys will.

Ringo's Story - My bunny Ringos story, very long thread.

Gabriel's Story - My Bunny Gabriel story, not as long and not as bad as Ringos.

Special-Needs Rabbits: Working with Headtilt - My story about all of this in a condensed version.


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## Bunnylova4eva (Jan 14, 2012)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> *Bunnylova4eva wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Here's an article I found helpful with my head tilt bunny-I gave a copy to our vet as well.
> ...




o I'm sorry I should have clarified-Our vet didn't agree with alot of it. I don't know how much of it I agree with. But what really helped me was the things she said in the article about caring for a head tilt bunny etc. and information about it-history of the illness. You know more than I do on EC-I'm sure some of that isn't accurate. That's pretty much what ourvet said. Especially the info about *treating* EC., she didn'tagree with the mothod. By the time my rabbit wasthat sick, we were annoyedthat nothing they did was getting my rabbit anywhere but worse and we just wanted them to try something. 

As for weather my head tilt bunny got better, very sadly No. And I didn't use the method in the article either if you're wondering. She used Tresaderm for the ear infection for several weeks. Then nothing, then Baytril, then SMZ-TMP then nothing (when she was almost better! +P) then she got worse and they stuck her back on baytril. She got so sick and we eventually had to put her to sleep. It was the most miserable 6 months ever.


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## allydp (Jan 14, 2012)

She's still taking the panacur once a day at. 3cc & she gave her baytril at. 1cc twice a day.


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## pla725 (Jan 14, 2012)

Definitely get another opinion. The vet used at the time Simon had his symptoms encouraged it. I went to the university of Penn. 
I would get another titer in a couple weeks. Also check the kidneys. Not sure what scale the vet uses but it doesn't sound right. I remember the highest reading Simon had was over 8. He was in the late stages. I guess it depends on the lab.


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## allydp (Jan 15, 2012)

It wasn't the vet who said she was about an 80, she said she was at moderate severe, the lady that answered the phone told me she was about an 80, but I was confessed at how bad it was.


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## pla725 (Jan 15, 2012)

I would get a copy of the lab results and have the vet go over it with you. If they don't want to take the time I would get another opinion.


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## Rusty78 (Jan 15, 2012)

Sounds to me like your rabbit has Wry-neck. Hope she gets better. Its usualy from an ear infection and can take a loooong time to get better...but as long as she is eating and drinking dont give up !!! Sometimes baytril doesnt cut it tho....if not maybe ask your vet about cipro.


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## Bunnylova4eva (Jan 15, 2012)

Wry neck is the same as head tilt. It names a symptom of an illness. It could easily be caused my either EC or Ear infection. I do agree that Baytril isn't always enough to cut it. However if your bunny has EC I'd think the Panacur is the right thing.


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