# Seizures in rabbit kits diagnosis.



## Icarus (Mar 27, 2010)

I have finally been able to diagnose what has killed my kits as Encephalitozoon Cuniculi or E-Cuniculi, which they where infected with in the womb. The doe is still healthy as ever, showing no clinical signs of the parasite. 

I did preform a necropsy when several kits died at about 2 weeks old. Other than a slightly strange appearance to the brain, and a very full bladder, it showed _no other signs of infection or illness_.


Kits have exhibited:
Seizures (multiple, some kits are worse than others)
Facial weakness (all-over-body weakness, really)
Paralysis (unable to stand or support, body completely limp)
*Head tilt* - Originally I thought the strange position to be because of the seizures, but the kits where in fact suffering from head tilt.
Loss of appetite

Mortality Rate with onset of symptoms: 100%
Current kit loss to parasite: 6/12


I have another kit from the same litter exhibiting the following symptoms:
Lethargy
Loss of appetite, eating and drinking very little
Depression 
Discharge from the left eye 

I'm monitoring him and encouraging him to eat, still hoping he'll pull through, but looking at the rest of the litter, chances seem slim. 

The remaining two kits seem healthy, are eating and drinking well, and are very active and happy.
*Up until today, the discharge kit (brown) was happy and healthy.*

The other kit I lost today was *happy, spunky, and healthy not 2-3 hours before. Onset of symptoms was sudden and severe.*

Further reading:
http://www.eid.ac.cn/MirrorResources/7815/about.html
http://la.rsmjournals.com/cgi/reprint/19/3/208.pdf


I hope this terrible news will at least aid other breeders and pet owners. I'd rather know and be prepared for something like this, then be in the dark wondering if it's something genetic or otherwise.


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## Maureen Las (Mar 27, 2010)

Oh What a terrible thing to have to go through. 

Idon'tvery much about kits with the active illness; I know that many kits are born with e-cuniculi but that their immune systems are strong enough to keep it inactive until they are adults or even elderly rabbits. i

I don't know why certain kits have an active infection whereas others don't.??
Ido know that Randy (mod on this forum and a wildlife rehabilitator) uses the equine drug Ponazuril for e-cunuculi in rabbits and has had much better success with it than with fenbendazole. 

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=2832&S=1&SourceID=52
I doubt very much that it would benefit sick kits butI do not know.
I am very sorry for the loss of the little ones
:hug:
Maureen


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## tonyshuman (Mar 28, 2010)

I'm sorry, I don't know much about rabbit kits suffering from EC. Like angieluv said, we're used to seeing older rabbits have this disease, and having it not cause death so suddenly. Treatment with Ponazuril may help.


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## ra7751 (Mar 28, 2010)

Couple of thoughts on this one. EC is the most misunderstood of rabbits issues even by experienced vets. The noted articles reflect the lack of information noted. One of the articles is from 1985 and the other is from 2003 if I remember correctly. There have been huge strides made in research on EC in just the last couple of years. I have dealt with EC quite a bit. EC is not terminal itself. Death from EC is caused by immune suppression caused by the stress of fighting EC that allows opportunisitic bacteria to invade body systems. It is not a quick death. Most rabbits are lost due to bacterial infections in various organs induced by EC compromising the immune system. If the rabbit is aggressively treated for the bacterial infection, the ultimate battle will be fought, and lost, in the kidneys. There is also a major problem in the drugs noted in the articles that are used to fight EC. The parasite manifests in the brain....and the drugs noted are not able to easily penetrate to blood/brain barrier. I am currently and successfully using an equine drug called Ponazuril (Marquis). It is used to treat a similar protozoan infection in horses. It can pass the blood/brain barrier. And if none of these reasons strike a cord....then consider that if the parasite kills the host, the parasite will also die. Parasites live only as long as the host lives. Don't know of many suicidal parasites.

I also question the necropsy. Your post said "I"....does that mean you had a lab do it or did you perform the necropsy yourself? I suspect based on the timing of the expiration along with the symptoms that if an anaerobic GI culture had been performed at necropsy that an overgrowth of a bacteria known as Clostridium Difficile would have been found. It fits the symptoms and is something I have seen all too often in both domestics and cottontails as they gut starts to wean and the pH begins to become more acidic. The toxicity induced by the enterotoxins will produce a presentation of a neurological seizure when in fact it's a response to toxins and pain. I have seen rabbits die so quickly from this condition that they had food in their mouth as they were eating when they foundered.

The proper response to this condition is an antibiotic known as Metronidazole (Flagyl). There is another product that is much faster acting and is basically a "scrubber". It is called BioSponge and can filter and bind nearly all the toxins induced by Clostridium. We have had huge successes with this product in small mammals.

Differentials noted lead to a bacterial imbalance in the GI...not EC.

Randy


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## Icarus (Mar 28, 2010)

ra7751 wrote:


> Couple of thoughts on this one.Â  EC is the most misunderstood of rabbits issues even by experienced vets.Â  The noted articles reflect the lack of information noted.Â  One of the articles is from 1985 and the other is from 2003 if I remember correctly.Â  There have been huge strides made in research on EC in just the last couple of years.Â  I have dealt with EC quite a bit.Â  EC is not terminal itself.Â  Death from EC is caused by immune suppression caused by the stress of fighting EC that allows opportunisitic bacteria to invade body systems.Â  It is not a quick death.Â  Most rabbits are lost due to bacterial infections in various organs induced by EC compromising the immune system.Â  If the rabbit is aggressively treated for the bacterial infection, the ultimate battle will be fought, and lost, in the kidneys.Â  There is also a major problem in the drugs noted in the articles that are used to fight EC.Â  The parasite manifests in the brain....and the drugs noted are not able to easily penetrate to blood/brain barrier.Â  I am currently and successfully using an equine drug called Ponazuril (Marquis).Â  It is used to treat a similar protozoan infection in horses.Â  It can pass the blood/brain barrier.Â  And if none of these reasons strike a cord....then consider that if the parasite kills the host, the parasite will also die.Â  Parasites live only as long as the host lives.Â  Don't know of many suicidal parasites.
> 
> I also question the necropsy.Â  Your post said "I"....does that mean you had a lab do it or did you perform the necropsy yourself?Â  I suspect based on the timing of the expiration along with the symptoms that if an anaerobic GI culture had been performed at necropsy that an overgrowth of a bacteria known as Clostridium Difficile would have been found.Â  It fits the symptoms and is something I have seen all too often in both domestics and cottontails as they gut starts to wean and the pH begins to become more acidic.Â  The toxicity induced by the enterotoxins will produce a presentation of a neurological seizure when in fact it's a response to toxins and pain.Â  I have seen rabbits die so quickly from this condition that they had food in their mouth as they were eating when they foundered.
> 
> ...




I did the necropsy myself. I unfortunately don't have the funds to have a lab do one for me. With a dog to spay and horses to trim, a cultures from a rabbit just isn't priority. 

I've had these symptoms present before weaning, at about 2 weeks old and on the mother full time, no solids. Onset of symptoms was quick, but the kits lived surprisingly for several hours (one well into the night) before succumbing. 

The 4 week old that died yesterday had quick and severe symptoms, followed by death in about three hours. They where slow weaned, starting at about three weeks, with access to solid foods and water before I took them off the doe completely.


The little brown seems to be hanging in there with a little love and care. Crossing my fingers that he pulls through. Other two are just as spunky as can be.


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## pamnock (Mar 28, 2010)

I agree with Randy. I wouldn't assume the cause to be EC.

Losses are very common at this time of year - I've heard case after case of breeders losing apparently healthy kits in the nestbox. A common thread seems to be that this is seasonal - so may be attributed to a viral infection weakening the kits, lending them to bacterial infections.

Other causes are endless. I'm advising breeders to rebreed their does. Generally, if the cause was a seasonal depression, the next litters should thrive now that we're heading into the spring breeding season. If loses continue, other causes need tobe investigated. Syphilis is one of the possible causes that breeders should consider.


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## ra7751 (Mar 28, 2010)

Couple of additional thoughts here. First, since you have horses, I would highly suggest getting a canister of Platinum Performance BioSponge. As labeled it is to help with GI issues in foundering horses....and since the gut of a rabbit and a horse is quite similar, it will help in rabbits. In fact the labs were done "in vitro" so we use BioSponge in a number of mammal species to filter and bind toxins caused by bacterial issues in the gut....and particularly Clostridium Difficile. We have had rabbits and squirrels make nothing short of miracle recoveries. It comes in a powder or paste.I use the powder as it can be mixed in formula or sprinkled on greens. Certainly, as Pam mentioned, viral agents can be involved that compromise the immune system and since a virus can only be treated with supportive care, we have to attack what we can treat and that is the resulting bacteria.

As far as necropsies, cost is certainly a concern for all of us. I don't know of other states, but in NC, the state lab that is run thru the Dept. of Agriculture will perform a small animal necropsy for $10. It might be beneficial to you (and anyone else that desires a necropsy) that you contact your state labs and see what their charges are.

Randy


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## Icarus (Mar 29, 2010)

pamnock wrote:


> I agree with Randy.Â  I wouldn't assume the cause to be EC.
> 
> Losses are very common at this time of year - I've heard case after case of breeders losing apparently healthy kits in the nestbox. A common thread seems to be that this is seasonal - so may be attributed to a viral infection weakening the kits, lending them to bacterial infections.
> 
> Other causes are endless. I'm advising breeders to rebreed their does. Generally, if the cause was a seasonal depression, the next litters should thrive now that we're heading into the spring breeding season. If loses continue, other causes need toÂ be investigated. Syphilis is one of the possible causes that breeders should consider.



EC was the only thing where the symptoms really matched. I lost the brown kit today, he had been lethargic, not wanting to eat or drink much, one eye gunked up. Today he lost his ability to stand or really hold himself at all, then went into weak seizures (exact same symptoms as the other kits) and passed at 4 weeks, 3 days old.

Other two are spunky as can be, normal poop, eating and drinking with vigor. 

The doe is re-bred, this time to a good buck that I owned myself (I had bought her bred to *someone*, I suspected a genetic abnormality at first). Kits are due around the 5th of April, crossing my fingers that they'll make it. She's a great brood doe, one of the best I've had.

ra7751 wrote:


> Couple of additional thoughts here.Â  First, since you have horses, I would highly suggest getting a canister of Platinum Performance BioSponge.Â  As labeled it is to help with GI issues in foundering horses....and since the gut of a rabbit and a horse is quite similar, it will help in rabbits.Â  In fact the labs were done "in vitro" so we use BioSponge in a number of mammal species to filter and bind toxins caused by bacterial issues in the gut....and particularly Clostridium Difficile.Â  We have had rabbits and squirrels make nothing short of miracle recoveries.Â  It comes in a powder or paste.Â Â I use the powder as it can be mixed in formula or sprinkled on greens.Â  Certainly, as Pam mentioned, viral agents can be involved that compromise the immune system and since a virus can only be treated with supportive care, we have to attack what we can treat and that is the resulting bacteria.
> 
> As far as necropsies, cost is certainly a concern for all of us.Â  I don't know of other states, but in NC, the state lab that is run thru the Dept. of Agriculture will perform a small animal necropsy for $10.Â  It might be beneficial to you (and anyone else that desires a necropsy) that you contact your state labs and see what their charges are.
> 
> Randy



In-vitro, as in pregnant/carrying kits? (just want to clarify before I go off giving them things, especially if pregnant). 

No matter what, I'll be checking if the local stores carry this product. It seems like an excellent product to keep on hand, if it be for horses or rabbits.


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## tonyshuman (Mar 29, 2010)

In vitro means not in live animals, more like in a test tube. Because the drug shouldn't leave the GI tract--it stays in the intestines and absorbs the toxins from there, instead of getting into the bloodstream, etc. Therefore I wouldn't worry about the kits being affected because the drug won't get into the blood where it could travel to them.


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## tonyshuman (Mar 29, 2010)

Unfortunately, EC does not fit the symptoms. I don't know a lot about young rabbits, but I know that the symptoms you saw would not be caused by EC in an adult. Many people see any neurological symptom and immediately assume EC. That's usually not the case. Ear infections are what cause the head tilt often seen with EC, and seizures are more likely to be related to low blood nutrients and/or toxins in the blood.

I do know that baby rabbits are particularly sensitive to GI disturbance, and that the idea of a seasonal virus causing a weakness in the immune system, leading to both ear infections and GI-related death that involves seizures (because the GI tract is no longer absorbing nutrient correctly, or the toxins produced by the bacteria are causing seizures), makes a lot more sense.


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## HealthyHumphrey (Jun 8, 2017)

We just had 3 kits die from this, same thing, had arched back far and seizing then a few minutes later they were dead. The 4th was seizng and arched all the way back and stiff as the others did we expected it would die shortly after too, searching the internet with not much info besides this post. Decided to try mixing colloidal silver which kills most any bacterias and diatomaceous earth (food grade) which kills parasites and yeast. Along with some filtered water and nurse all milk replacer fed with a dropper bottle. So instead of seizing more and taking a last big gasp like the others did. This little fluff ball started eating it from the dropper bottle right away and started to wake right up, after about 15minutes of resting was able to hop around slowly, but was just not able to even move from its side minutes prior, mind you! I am convinced they needed the natural antibiotics. Will always keep silver and DE on hand!


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