# Should I breed?



## MelissaPenguin (Feb 15, 2011)

I have a few buns, and 2 more on the way, that I would like to breed as a hobby. I used to raise rabbits when I was younger, but am hoping to get more seriously into breeding. As of now, none of my buns have pedigrees, but I know at least 3 are purebred. Here are photos of them, and their age/sex. Yes, I know some are too young to breed, I am willing to wait, but I want to have everything set up before hand. I also have a home for a black and white bunny, and possibly a 'feeder home' (as much as I hate to do it) for a few bunnies if it really comes to that.

First off there is Bugz. About 4 months old. Male. Mini Rex. When I took photos, he was quite nervous, so I have a photo of the actual him, and a photo of what he would look like if he was being a typical bunbun and standing up for me. I love his otter markings, and his incredibly soft fur.




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Next up is my other Mini Rex, Night Magic. About 3 months. Male. From a breeder. I didn't pay to get his pedigree, but I'm debating on getting it now. Pure black.






My other purebred is Skype. About 3 months. Mini Lop. Chinchilla color. Have the choice to get her pedigree as well. Think I should?






These two are my mutt sisters. The mainly white one is Miss Priss, and the other is Sparkles. I love Sparkles coloring, and she has a great personality!


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## mistyjr (Feb 15, 2011)

When breeding, You need to get some good stocks.


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## iluvdutchrabbbits90 (Feb 15, 2011)

I wouldnt breed the 2 mix girls. U really need to get some pure rabbits with pedigrees with nice type, fur etc..


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## MelissaPenguin (Feb 15, 2011)

The two I am getting from a breeder (not sure if she's on here... haven't seen her) seem to have great backgrounds, and wonderful coats. Their family histories have legs and very promising bloodlines. Most (if not all) of her breeders have legs. I would say she is more into showing her rabbits, rather than breeding, but I am very excited to be getting two very adorable rabbits from her.

I am in the midst of setting up my cages and things of that nature, before I try to get really serious about breeding for pedigrees and possibly showing. I was just curious if there were any two particular rabbits that I have, that would be better of being bred, rather than another two. Of course, Miss Priss and Sparkles will be mainly just pet bunnies since I have no real clue of their backgrounds.


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## SNM (Feb 15, 2011)

So, the breeder you bought them from charges extra for the pedigree?


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## MelissaPenguin (Feb 15, 2011)

Not much more, but yes.


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## mistyjr (Feb 15, 2011)

Breeding 2 good legs rabbits together can always throw junk babies. You always gotta check their body type,ect. It doesnt matter if the parents were good. Check any DQs.





I have seen breeders charge $5 extra for pedigree's.


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## MelissaPenguin (Feb 15, 2011)

I've tried researching for DQs. Is there a list somewhere on this forum that has all the general DQs?


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## mistyjr (Feb 15, 2011)

Here are a few websites for you.. I hope they help

http://home.cogeco.ca/~rabbitknowledgebase/public_html/Mini_Rex_Standard.html
http://cottonwoodfarms.tripod.com/pencil.html
http://mr-colors.tripod.com/
http://www.rabbitsontheweb.com/node/31



WHAT TO LOOK FOR

A breeder will advise you and you know their stock is good. But should you pick up a Rex in a pet shop. you should run your hand over the back from the tail to the neck to check for density and softness. The coat should remain upright and not fall flat once your hand has passed. There shouldn't be any bare spots such as on the ears or at the nape of the neck or the root of the ears. Nor should there be bald patches or sores on the pads of the feet. The hindquarters should be well rounded and not too square. The head should not be sheep shaped or a narrow wedge, nor bull-nosed like a Netherland Dwarf if a Mini Rex. The coat should not be woolly, wavy or harsh. The rabbit should not be overweight (folds of flesh, heavy dewlap), have crooked legs, odd coloured eyes or putty nose (that is have flesh coloured markings on the nose or very little hair there). Even if it's just going to be a pet, you want a nice specimen, especially given what pet shops charge.


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## iluvdutchrabbbits90 (Feb 15, 2011)

yup for my lionheads i do 25.00 pet price and 30.00 with pedigree, unless its a really awsome baby i might sell them for more.


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## mistyjr (Feb 15, 2011)

Wow...lol.. I charge $5 for my pets with no pedigrees or Free,


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## Jaded (Feb 15, 2011)

You should deffently show Bugs and see how he goes, his fur looks good.

I wouldn't breed the mix breeds, or the mini lop with the Rex, you should find a purebred pedigree mini lop buck to breed with your mini lop or borrow a buck from a breeder.
It's a good idea to buy there pedigrees too


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## iluvdutchrabbbits90 (Feb 15, 2011)

mistyjr wrote:


> Wow...lol.. I charge $5 for my pets with no pedigrees or Free,


 wow you can't find a lionhead around here for 5 even with no ped. 20 MAYBE lol unless it's a mix.


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## Jaded (Feb 15, 2011)

*iluvdutchrabbbits90 wrote: *


> mistyjr wrote:
> 
> 
> > Wow...lol.. I charge $5 for my pets with no pedigrees or Free,
> ...


I charge $20 - $50 depending on quality. I give pedigrees to buyers for free but not for pet rabbits, i also tattoo for free and charge $10 for vaccinations (i get 10 rabbits vaccinated at a time so will only cost what the bottle is wroth, $50)


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## SNM (Feb 15, 2011)

If they're buying pet quality why would they need a pedigree??They would only need a birth certificate. The breeder should supply the pedigree free of charge if it is brood or show stock, not charge extra. That's my opinion


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Feb 15, 2011)

Did the breeder specify if these guys would be show worthy? 
If they were sold as pets, they might have DQs or faults that wouldn't be good to pass on. Perhaps you could contact the breeder you get them from, and ask? 

Emily


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## MelissaPenguin (Feb 15, 2011)

I was told that Bugz would possibly be show quality, but he has no pedigree available, since he's supposed to be a pet, and I got him for free. (I wasn't expecting such a gorgeous bunny! I think I lucked out, a ton.)

As for Night Magic and Skype, I will ask the breeder what she thinks. I know she was planning on selling them to me as pets, but that's because I've been waiting a while for two buns that I really wanted, and asked for specific breeds and colors. (The black Mini Rex was the only male rex she has, so I decided to take him, but the female Lop was something I picked out personally.) She is out of the area, and they won't be ready to leave the nest for another week or so, so I haven't seen them yet, but from all the photos, and looking at their parents, they seem to have very strong bloodlines.

I am paying $60 for both of them, if I choose to get the pedigree, and if I have the money, I definitely will be. I do hope to get purebred mates for both the Lop and the Mini Rexs, but am keeping my eyes out for a good combination. In your opinions, what colors should I be looking for to match my otter Mini Rex, chinchilla Holland Lop, and black Mini Rex?

If I did decide to breed my otter and chinchilla, should I expect healthy kits overall? I know they wouldn't be show quality or even be able to get pedigrees, even if I had pedigrees for both parents. But overall, would I be able to expect healthy kits, even though the breed difference? I know they should be only a few pounds apart when fully grown.


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## woahlookitsme (Feb 15, 2011)

First
I would familiarize yourself with the breeds. I think if you are thinking about breeding you should be an exhibitor of that breed first. Its only doing whats right for your breed. Learn the desired traits, DQ's, and how to properly pose. That would be a big help to us who would like to help you evaluate your stock. You can order the new Standards of Perfection book from this website. This will tell you a good chunk of information first. 

http://arba.net/publications.htm

As far as the otter and chin from what im told in Britannias is to go for an agouti marked rabbit (these are usually rabbits that have rings in the fur-also noted by the ticking of black hairs)

Alot of people are against mixing breeds. But breeding two different breeds (such as your minilop and rex) would be an ok pair and should produce healthy kits. But neither of your rabbits are ready to breed so you have some time to find a pair for them of the same breed. Good luck keep us posted


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## SNM (Feb 16, 2011)

Okay, I just got a black otter. Best bet is to breed him back to a black otter and possibly a blue otter. Or you can pair him with a black. The black mini rex you can pair with blue(dilute of black) or another black mini rex. Miss Tammy also told me I could breed tort into black and my reds. Your chinchilla ....stick with the agouti group, or you can outcross to any other group if you know what you're doing. Hollands are tricky


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## woahlookitsme (Feb 16, 2011)

But dont breed a tort or shaded to an agouti rabbit. It will not produce good colored babies and will be of no use but pets. That goes for rabbits that have shaded or agouti in their background too. If it has shaded in the background breed with shaded. Same for agouti


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## MelissaPenguin (Feb 16, 2011)

Can I get a photo example of a shaded color and a agouti color please?


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## woahlookitsme (Feb 17, 2011)

Shaded mini rex colors:
http://natalieshobe.tripod.com/id21.html

Smoke Pearl::






Agouti mini rex colors:
Lynx, opal, castor, chinchilla, squirrel

Castor::




Opal::





Lynx::


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## TinysMom (Feb 18, 2011)

*MelissaPenguin wrote: *


> The two I am getting from a breeder (not sure if she's on here... haven't seen her) *seem to have great backgrounds, and wonderful coats. Their family histories have legs and very promising bloodlines. Most (if not all) of her breeders have legs. *I would say she is more into showing her rabbits, rather than breeding, but I am very excited to be getting two very adorable rabbits from her.
> 
> I am in the midst of setting up my cages and things of that nature, before I try to get really serious about breeding for pedigrees and possibly showing. I was just curious if there were any two particular rabbits that I have, that would be better of being bred, rather than another two. Of course, Miss Priss and Sparkles will be mainly just pet bunnies since I have no real clue of their backgrounds.


Hi! I wanted to share my thoughts on a few things that you've shared. First a bit about me - I mainly have experience breeding lionheads, holland lops and flemish giants. I've had well over 100 litters in the five years I've been breeding even though a couple of times I've taken breaks from breeding for a few months.

When I first started breeding - I was working with lionheads. I made sure to get a wide variety of rabbits but I went with "known breeders" who were known for their stock. Some of their rabbits were great- others - not so great. It isn't that they weren't good breeders or that their rabbits weren't good....and it isn't that they were deceiving me.

It is that every litter there are the "keepers" (aka "show") and the "brood" quality and the pet quality. And even though the rabbits may all come from the same lineage - that doesn't mean that they will give you the exact same quality of rabbit all the time.

Because of this -and after being mentored by other breeders who really wanted to see me succeed - I learned an important lesson.

Before you EVER look at a pedigree - you need to look at the rabbit in front of you. If possible - you need to put your hands on it and examine it against the standard for the breed. Of course, this means you need to know the standard for the breed that you want to breed - which is why I recommend you buy ARBA's "Standard of Perfection" from their website (or at a show from a supplier). 

I've seen rabbits that were duds that had great pedigrees - and rabbits that were great that had pedigrees where I knew no one on the pedigree - but the rabbit itself was great.

You see - the pedigree is basically a record of the "past"....but it isn't a predictor of the future. 

Another thing that I've learned about legs is that they're....well...I don't want to offend anyone - but to me they're almost a "joke". 

Let me explain. A rabbit earns a leg based upon who it went up against on a certain day at a certain time and who was doing the judging.

I've been to double shows where one judge dq'd my rabbit - and the second one gave it Best of Breed. Which judge was right? 

I've also been to shows were there was an awesome rabbit being judged...but it was a low turnout and there weren't enough competitors for the rabbit to earn a leg - even though it definitely deserved one. 

Now with that said - I will say that last year I was at a rabbit show where my holland lop doe, Cindy, took Best of Breed in BOTH the shows under two different judges. Both of them made almost the exact same comments about her "promising show career" and "wonderful pose" and "great crown". In that case - I do tend to cherish those legs because it was under two different judges but they shared the exact same comments (even though they didn't see each other judge). In addition - when she went up for Best in Show for one of the shows - the judge kept going back to her and the other two rabbits that eventually won. When I picked her up he said she was "outstanding" and it was a very tough choice for him. 

The funny thing is - Cindy came from a new breeder and had nothing impressive in her pedigree. But when I, and other holland lop breeders - put our hands on her and they were teaching me what to look for - they all agreed I should get her (or they were going to buy her). 

Funny thing - she cost me $40 - the least of all the rabbits I bought that weekend. The others - with better pedigrees - have been dq'd at shows even.

So my point?

Get to know your breed's standard VERY VERY WELL. Have another breeder walk you through how to judge a rabbit - preferably hands on. Ask them what makes a rabbit good and see if they'll even compare rabbits for you.

Then - go looking for your rabbits. While you may want to buy from this breeder you've contacted (and I'm not knocking anyone) - you may also want to save some money and go to a large show (preferably a state show) and see about buying a rabbit from there also.

Just my .02 based upon my experience!

Peg


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## TinysMom (Feb 18, 2011)

Color crossing rules for mini rex rabbits

Much of this can apply to other breeds also - I used to have one of these bookmarked for Nethies - I'll see if I can find it.

Lop color guide


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## Toastasaraus (Feb 22, 2011)

I just have to ask.. you said that your rabbit was a Mini Lop? If that is indeed a "mini lop" I would not recommend breeding it. It's type is all off. Now if it is a Holland Lop and was posed differently I could give you another opinion.


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## woahlookitsme (Feb 22, 2011)

Oh for agouti shades in your holland lops that would be a chinchilla, chestnut agouti, Chocolate Agouti, Chocolate Chinchilla, Lynx, Opal, and Squirrel (Blue Chinchilla).


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## MelissaPenguin (Feb 24, 2011)

*Toastasaraus wrote: *


> I just have to ask.. you said that your rabbit was a Mini Lop? If that is indeed a "mini lop" I would not recommend breeding it. It's type is all off. Now if it is a Holland Lop and was posed differently I could give you another opinion.


She is a HOLLAND Lop. I tried to edit the original post after I realized what I did, and it had been too long since I originally posted to edit it. That being said, she was also only something like 4-5 weeks in the photo. I pick up both my Holland Lop and my black Mini Rex this weekend and will attempt to get some new photos. =3

Thank you everyone for all the very useful information! I have been writing everything down and have quite a book going. lol


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