# Help!



## Bramble Briar86 (Jul 8, 2006)

A man contacted me about my californian rabbits after he saw my rabbitry in a directory. I told him that I do not ship, and asked him where he lived to see if other arrangements could be made. He said he lived in the United Arab Emirates and would send over a representative to pick up the bunnies. 

I really don't know what to do. I'm not keen on the idea of shipping them overseas, not to mention i've never heard of something like this!

Has anyone else ever had someone ask to have rabbits shipped overseas? 

I'm also concerned about the rabbits' welfare, i'd imagine it would be blistering hot over there for them until they are used to it! 

Help!

Ellie


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## pamnock (Jul 8, 2006)

This is a common hoax. I get this type of email all the time and simply delete them.

You'll be sent a check that is more than the amount of the purchase. You are asked to cash the check and refund the overpayment. Unfortunately, it takes a couple weeks for your bank to discover that the check is a fake, and you are out the money you sent to the "buyer".

Pam


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## Bramble Briar86 (Jul 9, 2006)

I'm really glad I asked someone about this then! It started to sound fishy when I told him I didn't ship and he kept pressing the matter anyways. I learn something new everyday....I just can't believe people to scams like this :disgust:, certainly had me fooled.

:thanks:for the help.

Ellie


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## pamnock (Jul 9, 2006)

You are very welcome!

Here's an example of how the scam works . . .

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/03365/256530.stm



Pam


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## Starlight Rabbitry (Jul 9, 2006)

I heard about this from a group I belong to. The lady who sent the alert out to everyone just said to ask them for pictures of their rabbitry and you will never hear back from them! 

Sharon


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## Hollie (Jul 9, 2006)

That's a bit naff about the scam :X

But, fyi, I live an hour's flight from the UAE in Bahrain, and yes, in the summer it is too hot to have rabbits outside during the day. It can get up to nearly 50 Celcius at times, with a lot of humidity, almost 100% on some days. 

Mine are kept indoors now, but I have had rabbits before when I was young that were kept outdoors during the summer under a shaded area. They'd been born in the heat and so were 'used' to it - as used to it as anyone can be, I guess. But I wouldn't recommend it. 

It'd be a long flight here from the US... I wouldn't recommend shipping that far at all. Though I know you won't be doing it


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## SunnieBunnie Rabbitry (Jul 9, 2006)

Yup, it's a scam... 

"Mr. Andy Cole of Sokey Rabbits in Dubai in the United Arab Emirate."

He's emailed me a few times also, just delete them.

~Sunshine


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## Bramble Briar86 (Jul 9, 2006)

*SunnieBunnie Rabbitry wrote: *


> Yup, it's a scam...
> 
> "Mr. Andy Cole of Sokey Rabbits in Dubai in the United Arab Emirate."
> 
> ...


 Mine was a "Gary Edwards" (it's probably the same guy under a different name).....I deleted all his emails and hope I never hear from him again! 

Ellie


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## gentle giants (Jul 10, 2006)

Yeah, I've gotten that exact same email myself. One clue is if the email or just the subject line are all in caps. The name that contacted me was a Richard something or other, also Sokey Rabbitry. Watch things like bad spelling, all in caps, etc. that most people just don't do. Also, if the first message you get doesn't ask about breeds, or pedigrees, or the things most poeple ask about, it just says, tell me how many you have for sale and the price, I want them all. Always be suspicious of these kind of messages.


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## SweetPeasMommie (Jul 11, 2006)

I have gotten emails like that when I was rehoming a few pets as well.


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## heavenlyshelties (Jul 15, 2006)

I used to get these all the time when i bred shelties.

LOL they get more creative every time. 

I am so glad you didn't fall for it. You wouldn't believe how many people have fallen prey to these hoaxes and lost tons of money.


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## lgen0290 (Jul 19, 2006)

I've been in contact with someone from Sokey rabbits. I on't know if it is a scam or not. This person appears to be unlike most mugu scammers, in the fact that he kows the animals. I sent a list of what I had and he sent me back a list of what he wanted. It was not everythig I sent him, which kinda isn't normal. I also said I had an opal and he asked what it looked like. He said he heard it was like a blue with a red undercoat. It just strikes me as odd that he is interested in them. I won't send him any money though!

also, he had a different name, same rabbitry.


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## pamnock (Jul 19, 2006)

*lgen0290 wrote: *


> I've been in contact with someone from Sokey rabbits. I on't know if it is a scam or not. This person appears to be unlike most mugu scammers, in the fact that he kows the animals. I sent a list of what I had and he sent me back a list of what he wanted. It was not everythig I sent him, which kinda isn't normal. I also said I had an opal and he asked what it looked like. He said he heard it was like a blue with a red undercoat. It just strikes me as odd that he is interested in them. I won't send him any money though!
> 
> also, he had a different name, same rabbitry.


 

It's a scam. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_fee_fraud

Still not sure? Tell him to go ahead and send funds, then see if the check clears through the bank. 

"Sokey rabbits" has probably contacted hundreds of rabbitrys as well as sellers of any other items under the sun. He will pick up on some of the jaron and be rather creative to make himself sound legit. 

I've gotten a number of emails from this so called "Sokey rabbits" as well as from other potential "buyers". I just delete them.

Here's a couple of the recent ones I deleted:

Dear Breeder,

I am Mr Andy Cole of Sokey Rabbits, Dubai in the United Arab 
Emirate. I need some rabbits for my farm.

I would like to know the Breed, Sex, Age and Quantity of rabbits that you have for sale

Waiting to read from you.

Andy


Hi,

I am MrAndy Coleof Sokey Rabbits, Dubai in the United Arab Emirate.

We are about expanding our rabbitry and we needed to buy more rabbits.

I would like to know the Breed, Sex, Age and Quantity of rabbits that you have for sale.

Waiting to read from you.

Andy


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## gentle giants (Jul 20, 2006)

Pam, that is to the word (except for the name) the email I got from the "Sokey Rabbits" guy. I'll also guarantee it's a scam.


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## Spring (Jul 20, 2006)

Wow, some people can be pretty darn sneaky! I'm just wondering, wouldn't the rabbit have to sit at customs or whatever for a long time before it can go into another country?

My first clue that it's a scam would be the name change!


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## pamnock (Jul 20, 2006)

*Spring wrote: *


> Wow, some people can be pretty darn sneaky! I'm just wondering, wouldn't the rabbit have to sit at customs or whatever for a long time before it can go into another country?
> 
> My first clue that it's a scam would be the name change!


 

Yes, some countries quarantine imports. 

Pam


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## Bramble Briar86 (Jul 23, 2006)

*pamnock wrote: *


> I would like to know the Breed, Sex, Age and Quantity of rabbits that you have for sale
> 
> Waiting to read from you.


 Exact same sentences in my emails from "him"

Ellie


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## Bramble Briar86 (Jul 23, 2006)

I just checked my email as i responded above.....I got another one about transferring funds from a "Miss. lindaowens" nice grammar, eh? **Heavily rolls eyes....Should i do it, guys?onder:LOL



Ellie


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## pamnock (Jul 23, 2006)

I decided to do an article on the 419 scams, so have been corresponding with "Mr. Andy Cole" and have arranged the "sale" of 7 New Zealand rabbits. His "financier" will be handling the transaction and the "shipper" will be picking up the rabbits at my home. I'm now awaiting his "check" in the mail, and I'll let you know the rest of the story as it progresses.

These scam artists send out thousands of emails. They only need a couple suckers to make a profit.

Pam


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## Spring (Jul 23, 2006)

Disgusting. What people will do for money is just plain crazy! What hasthe world come to these days! :shock:

I'll be following this thread/post to see what happends!


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## pamnock (Aug 18, 2006)

Here's an update:

I received an envelope (appears to be from Nigeria) today from the alleged "Andy Cole". The envelope contained 3 money orders (that are actually worthless). Each money order totals $950 (total of $2850). The rabbits totaled $225 and he was supposed to send money for the "shipper", although never specified how much.

I have emailed him to let him know I received "payment" and am awaiting reply.

I showed the money orders to the bank. They said there is no way for them to verifythat they are fakewithout actually depositing them and paying the $10 fee when they don't clear. They did say that I could try contacting Western Union. The bank does turn all evidence in to the FBI to keep on file.

Pam


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## Bo B Bunny (Aug 18, 2006)

WOW! I'm glad you mentioned it as well. They do that stuff all the time and are just trying to get money from you. Be very careful selling things online - too many creeps and crooks.


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## pamnock (Aug 18, 2006)

I just called Western Union and they said there is no way to detect visually whether or not the money orders are valid because the scammers actually often use real money orders, thenwash out thetrue amount and substitute the invalid amount.

So, will just wait for further instructions from "Andy" which will probably entail me now mailing the extra $2625 to the "shipper" (After cashing in the money orders and writing a check from my own account). The scam artistswould then cash the check before the money orders "bounced" through my bank.

Of course, it should strike most people as odd that the purchaser wouldn't just pay the shipper themselves.

Pam


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## pamnock (Aug 18, 2006)

Have received a reply from "Andy" who has suddenly gotten very talkative and wants to move things right along. As expected, he wants me to send money transfer of $2,200 to third party (his "shipper") -- *IMMEDIATELY* -- as the rabbits will be picked up this weekend. Holy cow! That means I would have to deposit funds and wire the money today. :disgust:Yeah- right.

Pam



*Hi Pam,*
 Thanks for confirming the receipt of the payment *$2850*......
 Now that you have the payment, you are to deduct the sum of* $300* which is the cost of the rabbits and vet papers and all other miscelleneous expenses, while the sum of *$2,200* is to be made available via *WESTERN UNION MONEY TRANSFER *to the freight hauler who will be coming over for the rabbit's pick up..He (freight handler) will have to start all the necessary preparation as regards the pick up of the rabbits..We have concluded that the rabbits will have to travel with him down here in an airconditioned compartment and also in the aircraft..

 Kindly get all the necessary papers ready as i would like to have the rabbits down here as soon as possible...

 Here is the informations you are to use in sending the funds to the freight hauler as he would need to pick the funds up as soon as possible so that he can commence the preparation as regards the pick up and also he is making arrangement to buy more cages for me from the United Kingdom.......

*Name; DANIEL ELSAVADOR
Address; 38 Banthlon street,
SX4 7HL
London
United Kingdom
*
You are to get back to me with the following informations so that i can get them across to the freight hauler ( Mr DANIEL ELSAVADOR ) and he would be able to pick the funds up and start all the neceesary preparation...

*Name of Sender;
Address of Sender;
AMount Sent(After transfer charges has been deducted)
MTCN(10 digits Number)*


I will be waiting to have all these informations later today as the rabbits will be picked up this weekend....

Thanks,

*Andy
*
*NB.
A scanned copy of the western union receipt should be attached to your reply.*


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## Spring (Aug 18, 2006)

Oo, I'm just beginning to understand this.

So, ifyou were looking to 'scam' the scammer, couldn't you just cash the money orders he sent to you and be done with it (if the money orders, were real that is) or do they have to be validated?

So would you actuallymeet someone when they came to pick up the rabbits? He's probably thinking your a sucker for believing his little scam, but he's the one being played out!

I'd never sell anything internationally, so many scams out there!

It's quite confusing, don't know if I understand it 100% but it makes sense of how theycan to do it.


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## pamnock (Aug 18, 2006)

*Spring wrote: *


> Oo, I'm just beginning to understand this.
> 
> So, ifyou were looking to 'scam' the scammer, couldn't you just cash the money orders he sent to you and be done with it (if the money orders, were real that is) or do they have to be validated?
> 
> ...


 

I can cash the money orders through my bank -- however, they are not valid, and my bank will expect the money back when the money orders don't clear. There is also a $10 fee for each money order that doesn't clear.

I did email "Andy" back explaining that I am leaving for a family reunion and will contact him again on Monday. 

He is insisting that I wire the $2200 right *now* to the "shipper".

The scam lies in the fact that the money orders are actually very well done fakes. The money orders are worth nothing. Because of this, the scammer wants me to send over $2000 to his "shipper"immediately -- before I find out that the money orders are no good. He makes a profit -- I would lose over $2000.

There is no actual shipper coming out to my house -- the scammer had no interest in buying any rabbits.

Here's his most recent email:

*Hi Pam,*

*Good to hear from you again. Kindly make the funds availableto the freighthandler today. With this he can finalise on the purchase of the cages and later check on you either on tuesday or wednesday for the pick up of the rabbits.*

*Thanks for your understanding,*

*Andy*


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## Eve (Aug 18, 2006)

That's shocking :shock:. Is there any way you would be able to report this and get these people in trouble?


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## pamnock (Aug 18, 2006)

They can be reported to the FBI, but at this point, no crime has actually been committed - I'm not out any money. The volumn of complaints is overwhelming and it's difficult to catch and prosecute the foreign perps.Here's more info on reporting such scams http://www.nigerianspam.com/file-a-complaint.html



Pam


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## Eve (Aug 18, 2006)

Thank you forthe information and thelink Pam!


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## SunnieBunnie Rabbitry (Aug 21, 2006)

*pamnock wrote: *


> *Spring wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Oo, I'm just beginning to understand this.
> ...


 
I would advise NOT to depositANY Money Orders from potential scammers... not only will you be charged your "uncleared deposit" fee... but *YOU* will be charged with attempting to cash a Fraudulent Check. You're now guilty of a Felony.

:nopeI wouldn't risk it ... I'd just turn everything over (including IP addresses) to the FBI... let them "cash" it and attempt to catch these :censored2themselves.


~Sunshine


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## pamnock (Aug 21, 2006)

Both Western Union as well as my bank said there was no problem with me attempting to put themoney orderthrough as long as I didn't write any checks out of my account on that amount. I would only be charged a $10 fee when the money orders don't clear. 

Pam


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## Bramble Briar86 (Aug 21, 2006)

Any more news, Pam?

Ellie


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## pamnock (Aug 21, 2006)

At this point, I am at the end of my "project". "Andy" had wanted me to wire the money immediately (before I would have a chance to find out that the money orders were no good). I'm not going to email him back - I'll let you know if he makes contact again.

Pam


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## pamnock (Aug 21, 2006)

Just heard from him again -- said he's waiting to hear of confirmation that I've wired the money. I'm going to email him back and tell him I'm waiting for the money orders to clear the bank and I'll send funds as soon as that happens. I'm sure I'll never hear from him again LOL

Pam


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## pamnock (Aug 21, 2006)

*SunnieBunnie Rabbitry wrote: *


> :nopeI wouldn't risk it ... I'd just turn everything over (including IP addresses) to the FBI... let them "cash" it and attempt to catch these :censored2themselves.
> 
> 
> ~Sunshine


 

Unfortunately, these guys are generally very mobile. They work from internet cafes and continually change location and addresses making them nearly impossible to track. It can often be difficult to even track theirtrue country of origin. (Some have actually been traced back to the US despite using foreign addresses).

There are a lot of scam baiting experts that make quite a sport of scamming the scammers and wasting their time 

More info on the money order scams:

http://www.bloombank.com/alert/usps.html





Pam


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## pamnock (Aug 24, 2006)

"Andy" is getting really sick of waitingLOL I finally broke the news to him that I'mwaiting on the funds to be paid out by Western Union so I'm sure that Ihave the funds before withdrawing the $2200. I doubt thatI'll hear from him again.

Hi,

Its over 72 hours since you deposited the paymentand it would have cleared your bank. Kindly confirm from your bank as iwant this transaction completed as soon as possible.

Kind Regards,

Andy


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## Spring (Aug 25, 2006)

I hate how he always uses 'kindly', like a morepolite demand. Hehe, I think he'll knownot to bother youafter this because you know his little scam!


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## KimboUNCW1 (Jan 5, 2007)

I recently put an ad on petclassifieds andpetfinder for a couple of my buns just to see who I would get. I didn'tput local but look at some that I got!

*gooday,*
*i saw your pets profile and will want o go for the adoption of thepet.*
*i live inohio and also a pet lover.*
*i need the adoption fee ur name and adress so i can proceed with the payment and also pics if available.*
*i will be making pick up arrangements and wil be paying for the delivery cost as am indeed pregant.*
*i live i my own house and also a mother of 3 with the least 12yrs.*
*hope the pet is i good shape.*
*i assure the pet a forevr loving home by me and my entire family.*
*thanks a lot.*
*mrs beauty daniels*
__________________________________________________

Looking for your pet as my best companion
With sound of good health. I would like to re-home your lovely pet to 
become 
part of my loving and caring family. I want to make your pet a friend 
and a 
companion. I'm us citizen. I live at delray beach FL, but presently in 
ontario canada to accept a job offer with the american christian 
missionary 
as a Clergyman. I'm happily married with a kid and 2 house maids. I 
lost my 
most adorable pet some couple of days ago due to old age. I can assure 
you a 
100% loving forever home for your pet. Pls, briefly tell me these: 
adoption 
fees,mode of feeding, present health condition, breed, and pic if 
available. 
I have a viable and reliable pet carrier that will come to visit you 
face to 
face for the pick-up. I wait to hear back from you so that i can inform 
a 
Church member to issue out the payment. But for the payment, you have 
to 
forward your name,address and your phone number so that a certified 
money 
order/CK will be issue on your behalf which'll cover the adoption fees 
+ 
$50 as reward offer for the up bringing of the pet + the shipping fees. 
I'll 
forward the pictures of me, my house and my famly so that you can rest 
assure that your pet is coming to a loving family. We cares for your 
pet.
______________________________________________________________

Hello ,
Am Raymond ,Am interested in buying yourpet .I live with my wife and two kids.Dont have anypet at the moment ,there is a wide compund with fence yard for the petto run round and play .
The pet will live in the house with me and will be treated as a family pet .
I would like to know the final price for the pet ,pls sendphotos also if any available .mail back very soon.
God bless you.
Raymond. 

_______________________________________________________________

*HappyNew Year
Am interested in adopt your pet which i saw on the internet
(petfinder.com) and i would like to know the conditions ofthe pet, and probably arrange for payment to get to youasapand also arrangefor the pick up once payment isconfirmed by you. ( I BASED IN DALLAS WITH MY FAMILY ) Pleaseacknowledge the offer and i will have the funds remitted to you as soonas possible, and i'll like this transaction to
be kept in outmost trust, Kindly reply back to me with your last asking
price ? also a picture of the pet, I promise
the pet a lovely home. Thanks and God Bless..... ..........
Regards,* 

___________________________________________________________________





my favorite was this one lol:

GOOD DAY SIR 

My Name is Mr Marvell Wilkin from Salk lake City ,Utah . Itsjust to tell you that am interested in adopting/buying your petfor mydaughter whom her pet just died last week.She's not feeling well cosshe dosen't have any pet to be with while she returned from schooleveryday and she's the only daughter of the family . So i will be gladif you can allow me to adopt the petfor her, so that she canstart feelin fine again and i dont want you to worry about the pick upof he pet.. there's a pet pick up company in Salk lake City ,Utah thatwill come down for the pet to be pick up.. i Just want to know if thepet is in good health condition and you tell me the final amount of thepet to be adopted and the pics of the pet ifavailable .. so i want you to reply me soon

Best Regards
Marvel

_________________________________________________________________



lol sir?? that one was my favorite! i'm not about to ship any of myanimals on a plane to a stranger i'm sorry. some people can, but i justdont trust people enough :?


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## KimboUNCW1 (Jan 5, 2007)

i just got this one lol

Dear Friend.

In presume that you are doing ok ,I am very happy to inform you aboutmy success in getting the transaction concluded and the fundstransferred under the help of a new partner from Kuwait.

Presently I'm in Japan doing investment in real estate with my ownshare of the funds.Meanwhile I didn't forget all your past efforts sonow that God has helped me to conclude the transaction successfully,out of my goodwill I will like you to contact my secretary for yourcompensation token.

His name is: Mr.Mark John His email address is( [email protected] )

and ask him to release to you a Certified Bank Draft Check of USD $800,000.00 which I kept for you as your compensation for all your pastefforts and attempt to assist me in concluding the transaction.

Thank you.

Yours Truly
Mr.Richard Mark 







weird!! 800,000 puh lease lol


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## kirinsangel (Jan 6, 2007)

I like to have fun with these bozos. Itell them some I will only accept western union money transfers fromoverseas/out of state(depending upon the scam). Other I tellthat any money sent over the cost of rabbits and vet, etc, Ikeep. But my favorite is I tell them to send the money order/cashiers check to their financer/shipper and to have the person whowill pick up the rabbits pay me in cash. 

I wonder why they dont respond.

Sara


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