# Choking Bunny!!! HELP



## mistyjr (Apr 25, 2010)

Spider Man is an Blue Dutch Buck... Age: Unknown 6 months +

I went into the shed to feed and check on the babies.. I went to hes cage and put some pellets in hes cage and he was happy and running up and down the cage. And I went to the other rabbits to feed them. He went to the bowl and started to eat. And I start hearing him sneezing like crazy.. I went up hes cage and I saw hes nose started drainning out yellow burger stuff. And He started to choke and gapping for air... He was fine this morning and yesterday with no sneezing or anything.. I ran into the house and grabbed our nose sucky that you get from the hospital when baby is born.. I put it hes mouth and start sucking stuff out.. And putting it up hes nose and start sucking stuff out that way...

Right know hes breathing heavy and i can hear bubbles in hes belly and hearing it out of hes nose. 

Is he coking or sick??

Help!!


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## Pipp (Apr 25, 2010)

You did exactly the right thing. He could be choking on pellets. How is he doing? 


sas :?


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## mistyjr (Apr 25, 2010)

I'm holding him at the moment.... I still can hear griggling hes hes nose and hes not hardly moving.. Hes breathing different.. I try to put my finger down hes troat to help to see if there is anything in hes throat and hes bite me... So I stopped..

I was reading on some sites.. And they said alot of rabbits choke on there pellets...

I just dont know what to do??? He was fine this morning and was very hungry and started to eat hes food and he started doing this...


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## Pipp (Apr 25, 2010)

I wouldn't hold him or stress him out unless you do it to give him oxygen. 

If you're not doing more to clear the airways, let him lie still in a quiet place so he can catch his breath. His body needs to be consuming as little oxygen as possible. 

Is he breathing through his mouth or his nose? 


sas ray:


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## Pipp (Apr 25, 2010)

Does it still sound like he has somehting in his airway or does he seem to be recovering? 

What color are his gums? 

There is a maneuever for rabbits with stuck pellets, just looking for it.


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## mistyjr (Apr 25, 2010)

I put that nose sucky in hes mouth again.. He stop making those sounds from hes nose.. I put my ear against hes belly and hes heart is going hundred miles an hr... Its beating fast..... But hes belly is still griggling. Hes breathing out of hes nose at the moment... Hes moving better alittle.. All jumpy...


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## mistyjr (Apr 25, 2010)

I cant hardly see hes gums.. They look normal..


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## mistyjr (Apr 25, 2010)

I was reading on an website.. And a lot of people dont feed there bunnies pellets no more due to this...

Another Forum that I just found on yahoo.
http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=160213


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## Pipp (Apr 25, 2010)

Here's a post from Pamela Alley, she sent this to a few Yahoo Groups... 

_
Yesterday, one of my buns suddenly began to snort, gag, and her eyes bugged
out alarmingly, followed by a gush of feed particles and saliva and mucous
from her nose. She was not able to breathe; she had choked on her food.

I held her nose-down, gave her a good thump on the back with a flat hand, no
help. Cleared her nose and did a finger sweep in her mouth--again, no
result although she was able to gasp in a small amount of air--and from the
sound of the rales in her chest, ingesta.  Not a good sign. Still
turning blue.

Out of desperation, I did as you do with calves and lambs, held her by the
hindlegs and scruff of the shoulders and swung her, nose-down, HARD, twice.

More green gunk out the nose, more saliva/mucous, still not breathing well.
Cleared her nose with a towel. But breathing. Then her eyes began to bulge
again and blueness built.

Totally out of options and lacking an airway of any kind, I stuck my first
finger down her throat, depressing the base of the tongue forward, away from
the airway. She could breathe, but what about my finger? For that matter,
what about her tongue, a lovely shade of blackish blue?

My finger was now up to the main knuckle in her mouth, her incisors on, but
not in (thank you, babe!) my skin. Did you know a plump forefinger just
almost fits between the molars of an adult Rex? 

I waited until she was breathing easy, then had a friend who was there
gently open her mouth a fraction so I could withdraw my finger. I brought
her tongue forward and draped it sideways out the diastema (space between
incisors and molars). A very unpromising color and limp...not at all normal
for a rabbit tongue.

The important thing is that she was BREATHING! And continued to do so even
as I gently, gradually, returned her tongue to her mouth.

I've seen rabbits choke before, but never to this extent. Had I not seen
her first signs, had I not been THERE, I think I would have just found a
dead rabbit with a wet, green nose and bluish ears. 

Today, it's obvious that she has a sore throat and tongue, but she's hungry
and drinking, good signs both.

I hope that my experience may help others; be aware, though, that the rex in
question is a very sweet and well-handled bun. I do not know if I could
have pulled this off with a stressy or unhandled bun.

PA


_


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## Pipp (Apr 25, 2010)

And here's a response from somebody on the Etherbun group... 


_--- On Fri, 12/26/08, Pamela Alley <[email protected]> wrote:
"Out of desperation, I did as you do with calves and lambs, held her by the 
hindlegs and scruff of the shoulders and swung her, nose-down, HARD, twice."
--------

If this maneuver is used, it is *crucial* the rabbit have back support or there is a high likelihood of breaking a rabbit's back. I have had to use this maneuver twice in rabbits, both times during resuscitation attempts. The swing does not have to be hard, it needs to be fast & smooth, with the rabbit head downsince you are relying on centrifugal force to 1)clear theairway (inthe case of choking) or 2) to move the diaphragm which will cause a manual exhalationand inhalation, depending on wherethe body is in the arc of the swing.

In both instances it should be used as a last resort. With choking, trying to clear the airway with your finger is the first step before using this swinging motion. With resuscitation, CPR should be attempted first (especially if you can establish a clear airway).

This site has applicable info on airway obstructionand how to attempt the Heimlich maneuver on small animals:

http://www.ferrets.org/First_Aid_Info.htm#AirwayObstruction

Lyssa
_

And a response to someone else from Pamela... 

_No, she's doing fine--and as my finger can attest, there's no molar problem. 
She was put in a cage where another bun had left crumbs in his dish and she 
dove in like it was the only food in the whole wide world.

She's doing very well and is forming new habits of eating more slowly, since 
her tongue is still sore (poor baby!); I'm making sure she is getting enough 
to eat and that things are going smoothly. Since she has a sift-bottom 
feeder now, that should prevent dust or fines from being a problem.

Someone on another list asked me why I didn't use a Heimlich, and the 
reasons in rabbits NOT to use a human-style maneuver are several. Potential 
severe, immediately life-threatening damage to the liver is top of the list; 
In this particular case, there are others...

Blockage wasn't complete, for one; for two, rabbits breathe (primarily) 
abdominally rather than thoracically as we do--which means that the most 
effective way to expel air from their lungs is to simply tip them forward 
and let the gut push the air out (swinging, in this case, gave the necessary 
force). When the gut falls back as the rabbit comes nose-up again, air is 
pulled back into
the lungs, if the blockage is gone.

One thing everyone can, and probably should, do is to think through what 
they should do in various potential emergency situations--if you know ahead 
of time, when you are calm, what is needed, you are more likely to do the 
right thing if the situation actually comes up (heaven forbid!).

PA 
_


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## mistyjr (Apr 25, 2010)

I have put him back in hes cage. I too out hes pellets and put some hay in hes cage.. He ran up hes bowl to see if there was an pellets.. Then he went to the hay and started munching on it.


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## mistyjr (Apr 25, 2010)

*Pipp wrote:*


> _ there's no molar problem.
> _


I felt teeth in way back.. There he bite me.


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## Pipp (Apr 25, 2010)

Well good job thinking under pressure, Misty! :great: You couldn't have handled it better! 

Listen for any rattles in the chest in case he inhaled any particles. 

You'd think that would curb his appetite at least a little! 


sas :biggrin2:


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## mistyjr (Apr 25, 2010)

I couldn't have.... I hope he will be a okay now!


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## jcottonl02 (Apr 25, 2010)

God...well done Misty, for thinking and acting well in such a terrifying situation.


This is an utterly terrifying thread. I am....well....shocked and a little disturbed.
I have heard a few stories about rabbits choking on pellets...but I didn't think it was very common.

Is it enough to reconsider pellets as part of a diet? My rabbits get dwarf-sized pellets, specifically for dwarfs, and are about half the size of normal pellets (these are Excel). I was thinking of switching....but it would be to larger pellets.
This thread has really given me the heeby-jeebies and I am reconsidering tbqh.....

That manoever.....how do you hold the bun. I am imagining holding the bun by the actual legs, and scruff, from that description, but that cannot be right? :? :?
Is it okay to hold them against you and swing your body round?

I wanna be prepared!!!! Because rabbits can't vomit....so I guess choking is even more dangerous for them than us....no heimlich manouver or anything......

Jen


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## Pipp (Apr 25, 2010)

Sounds like a bunny burrito may be the way to go. I just woke up poor Pipp and tried to 'dip' her, it's not that easy and she's a 2lb dwarf! Shudder to think how I'd handle 14lb Mikel. 

I don't think Pamela meant to actually hold them by the hind legs and really swing, the point is secure them and 'dip' their heads down with a gentle swing motion. As long as their heads are the lowest point and there's some motion forcing the air, that should have the desired effect. 

All these sources stress that it really is a last ditch effort thing. I wouldn't try it unless the rabbit wasn't breathing and was literally turning blue. 

I'll have to do some experimenting. 


sas onder:

PS: I'm writing this one up for the Library!


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## jcottonl02 (Apr 25, 2010)

Lol!!! Does Pipp look impressed right now? Explain to her that it's really important :rofl:

Okay, I see now. The first thing they say you should do with a human is get them to put their head RIGHT down to try and just let gravity do its work. THEN heimlich, rather than heimlich first, so I see this is quite similar.

Thanks Pipp!
Jen


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## jcottonl02 (Apr 25, 2010)

*Pipp wrote: *


> PS: I'm writing this one up for the Library!



Great idea!!!!! That will be so helpful.

Jen


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## mistyjr (Apr 25, 2010)

No Heimlich maneuver was done. I just stuck the nose sucky down hes throat and in hes nose to suck out the nasty stuff. And started rubbing hes throat. It was very scary.. I though he was dying. And I was shaking and crying so bad. I didnt know what to do.. I was home alone with the kids. They were screaming at me and it made it worse.. 

But however I just checked on him maybe 15 minutes ago. He was breathing normal but he was staying in one spot. Just looking around. He's right eye (brown eye) was different then hes blue eye. It was smaller like he was squinting.. 

Why could that be??? 

But how ever I just


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## jcottonl02 (Apr 25, 2010)

*mistyjr wrote: *


> No Heimlich maneuver was done. I just stuck the nose sucky down hes throat and in hes nose to suck out the nasty stuff. And started rubbing hes throat. It was very scary.. I though he was dying. And I was shaking and crying so bad. I didnt know what to do.. I was home alone with the kids. They were screaming at me and it made it worse..
> 
> But however I just checked on him maybe 15 minutes ago. He was breathing normal but he was staying in one spot. Just looking around. He's right eye (brown eye) was different then hes blue eye. It was smaller like he was squinting..
> 
> ...



Well, heimlich is only for animals that can vomit...I believe, so that's why this 'dip' manoever is the next step for buns.

I am so glad he is okay now. You certainly did the right thing! That sounds so terrifying 

I don't really know what happened to his eye. Maybe he was trying to hard to breathe, and was stressed, so perhaps that burst a blood vessel around his eye? Should be okay soon- just keep an eye on it.

Jen


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## mistyjr (Apr 25, 2010)

Thanks


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## funnybunnymummy (Apr 25, 2010)

Good thinking with the nasal aspirator (nose sucky), Misty! I'm thinking that may be thenext thing I add to my bunny first aid kit!

How does his breathing sound now? Can you still hear gurgling or rattling? If he gets any food in his lungs, it can cause pneumonia which will require antibiotics.

:hug:

Rue


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## mistyjr (Apr 25, 2010)

About an 45 min ago. I checked on him. I put hes chest to my ear and I didnt hear no griggling or anything or threw hes nose like I did earlier.. But he was still laying clamly and looking around. I believe with that nose sucky, That saved hes life or he would have been died right away.. That was my first thought on grabbing and that was all.. I was into shoke and wasnt thinking just that nose sucky.... They are a good thing to use even for this... It is a bad experience to go threw this.


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## Happi Bun (Apr 25, 2010)

Thank goodness for your quick thinking! How scary. :nerves1

Our beloved bunnies get so excited when they get their pellets. It may just be them swallowing too fast and forgetting to chew? It's not like they can then vomit it up. I'm wondering how bunny caregivers can prevent this from happening? Would it make a difference to cut the pellets into smaller pieces and thus being harder to get stuck? I did this when Dewey was just a tiny baby. He had a hard time eating his pellets so I put them in a blender set on very low and it cuts them into smaller pieces.


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## jcottonl02 (Apr 25, 2010)

For smaller rabbits you can use the Excel Dwarf and Junior pellets, which are specifically small-sized for little buns.
However, the fibre content is only 18% in these, as opposed to a more appropriate 28% from Oxbow pellets, so I am a little torn between the two. I think as long as the buns get lots of hay, the small, slightly lower fibre, pellets could be a good option for little bunny mouths?

Jen


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## mistyjr (Apr 25, 2010)

Some people don't feed them pellets due to this... :dunno:lookaround:dunno


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## Happi Bun (Apr 25, 2010)

Jen; I don't think the US carries those kind of pellets, unfortunately. I've never heard of them anyway.


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## mistyjr (Apr 25, 2010)

I don't know either... I may have to look on Thursday at the farm store.. I have to do something different..


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## jcottonl02 (Apr 25, 2010)

*Happi Bun wrote: *


> Jen; I don't think the US carries those kind of pellets, unfortunately. I've never heard of them anyway.



US doesn't do Excel??! Oh wow. It is 'apparently' the UK's No.1 Vet recommended pellet for buns. We do have Oxbow here, which I personally think is better than Excel, but the UK disagrees with me 

Are you sure?

Jen


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## Happi Bun (Apr 25, 2010)

I just typed it into Google, those pellets you mentioned. All that comes up is UK sites.


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## jcottonl02 (Apr 25, 2010)

Ohh :s

That's the annoying thing about us all being from different places !

You can def get it from a site, and have it sent over easily, but I dunno whether it's worth the postage, from UK to USA- it would probs be as much as the food again.

Funny, cos we have Oxbow here.

Jen


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## kirbyultra (Apr 25, 2010)

I've never heard of those pellets either!

Starting to think if I should get a nasal aspirator for this type of emergency as well. This is so frightening! I don't think I'll ever feed the buns pellets in a hurry and run out for errands ever again. It's a habit of mine -- I do all the stuff that takes a while (giving hay, washing veggies) and then the last part of the morning routine is to throw down some pellets and race out the door.... after reading this, while I also never thought it was a common problem, I think I might stay around for the buns to eat their pellets! Especially Penny... my crazed eater.


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## kirbyultra (Apr 25, 2010)

BTW, not sure if it matters but I have noticed that some pellets are bigger than others in terms of diameter. 

Zupreem and Kaytee pellets are about the same size (maybe 1/8" in diameter if you look at the cross section of the pellet). But generally the length of each pellet is smaller.

Oxbow has some longer pieces along with smaller pieces (depends on how much they're tossed around in the bag), and the diameter is slightly smaller than 1/8". 

Small differences, but down a little bunny throat, could be crucial?? Though the truth is once it hits moisture, pellets all expand


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## jcottonl02 (Apr 25, 2010)

Okay- wait- Burgess? Do you guys know of that? It is the same brand.

Burgess and Oxbow are THE 2 leading brands in UK, both the highest recommended by vets.

Can't believe US doesn't have Burgess!!! lol

Jen


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## mistyjr (Apr 25, 2010)

**Update**

I went outdoors to check on him. He had a piece of hay in hes mouth eatting it. Good News! But he sure acts different. Maybe that took a lot on hes body. He's not hyper and all over hes cage like he useally does.

I have a couple bun's that go on their pellets. Maybe I need to take about an hr just to cut the pellets in half or just put them in the blender???


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## Victoria (Apr 26, 2010)

Hi
We had two experiences similar to this with our bunnies the bunnies are quite small 2 kg and one died unfortunately. We dont give them pellets any more now after Black died earlier ( late January) this year. I am not sure why this happens. I went around pet shops (this is where I got my rabbits) asking about why and if there are other types of pellets but they all are very similar type of pellets. So we only give hay now (good Oxbow hay not the old type from supermarket we have here. We are in Sydney Australia). Our rabbits also had other health problems but we have not found out what they when the vet examined the rabbit...the choking could be alsofrom some other problem butwhen our rabbits choked it was always on those hard pellets. Even if mixed with water I dont think it is safe because of molasses in the pellets that stick.


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## Victoria (Apr 26, 2010)

I mean we give hay plus greens and apples at times and carrots etc.


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## mistyjr (Apr 26, 2010)

poor bunnies its the worst to see your babies going threw that.


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## mistyjr (Apr 26, 2010)

:biggrin:**NEWS** :biggrin:

This morning Spidy was happy to see me and wanted hes pellets this morning but I didnt give him any yet, I just had to check on him and the babies!. :weee::clapping::yahoo:


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## kirbyultra (Apr 26, 2010)

Glad he is looking alright. He's ok because of your quick thinking!

Nope never heard of Burgess either, Jen!


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## jcottonl02 (Apr 26, 2010)

:woohoo

Jen


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## mistyjr (Apr 26, 2010)

Yeah!! I finally did something good and saved a bun's life! :biggrin:


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## jcottonl02 (Apr 28, 2010)

*kirbyultra wrote: *


> Glad he is looking alright. He's ok because of your quick thinking!
> 
> Nope never heard of Burgess either, Jen!



That is sooo strange! We have oxbow here so I can't believe you don't have Burgess there.

http://www.rabbitawarenessweek.co.uk/diet/feeding-plan

The top UK veterinary recommended pellet is Burgess Excel, and the only one mentioned in this website as a top feed.

I don't know why, though, because I reckon Oxbow is better. Excel has about a 10% lower fibre content and a slightly higher protein content- about 4% than Oxbow.....

Jen


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## mistyjr (Aug 27, 2010)

*R.I.P Spider-Man and Dot (Mare Horse) On Thursday September,26th, 2010

You will be missed! ray:ray:
*


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## tonyshuman (Aug 28, 2010)

Oh no, I am so sorry. The story of you saving him before was very good to hear. What happened?

TBH I think the best solution to prevent bunnies from scarfing down their pellets and perhaps getting them stuck is to feed them slowly and make sure they have hay at all times. That way they won't be so starving as to just inhale the pellets, and if there's a bigger bowl there they will be more likely to chew. I would even try putting out a bowl with twice as much as you plan to give, and then coming back 15 min later and removing it, measuring how much they ate, and repeating in the next days to figure out how long it takes them to eat the amount of pellets that you want them to eat. Then you can give them a big bowl for that period of time, and then take it away, instead of putting down the whole ration at once which can make them too excited and they inhale them without chewing, leading to choking. This is just a theory though.


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## mistyjr (Aug 28, 2010)

Spider-Man choked on hes pellets again. Me and my aunt Becky were both feeding all the rabbits and I heard Spider-man coughing and sneezing. So I ran to hes cage and I knew he did it again. The first time it happen couple months ago, But this time I saved hes life. I tried to put my finger down hes throat. He died 10 minutes after I ran in the house with him. He was trying to get air and couldnt. I was too late. He was gone so fast.

The Black Mare died about the time Spider-Man died. My aunt was over my house helping me. After we were done and went to her house.. We went into the barn to help her with her rabbits and horses. We went to were the horses to feed them and ...we couldnt find the Black Mare. So Becky went looking. And she found her dead in a section of the barn. The baby of the mother went looking for her mother. Started sniffing her and trying to get her up and trying to drink milk. The mare was all bloody.. She was beating her self up.. We found out that the mare ripped her uterus and she was suffering. She had sympothes of colic but it wasnt. She was hurting and trying to get rid of by hurting her self. She left a month old baby filly.. But lucky we found other mare to take care of the baby.


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## mistyjr (Aug 28, 2010)

Dutch's are well known to over eat and get over weight like he was over weight. He would scarf hes food so fast and forgot to chew like some other animals do. They werent starving to death. My aunt thinks that it went down the wrong way, maybe that's why he died so quick and so soon.
I was trying to cut hes feed down and giving him just a little bit at a time so he wouldnt scarf it down so fast. He would get hay and grass daily. Get hes daily exercise in the pen to eat (He was my son's rabbit as he named him, and even helped feeding him).


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## SnowyShiloh (Aug 28, 2010)

I'm sooo sorry about Spidy  That's incredibly sad, poor guy. You tried your best to save him. Now I'm very paranoid about my bunnies and pellets, they're such little pigs- Ned has started to choke several times, but always cleared his airway within a second or so. Long enough for me to run to him in a panic, but he's always fine very quickly and doesn't even slow down eating. I think I need to get one of those nasal aspirator things.

Does anyone know the exact way to do the bunny swing thing? I read the descriptions but am having a hard time visualizing it.

Misty, again, I'm so sorry about Spidy


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## mistyjr (Aug 28, 2010)

Thanks Shiloh, 
It is very hard that we lost him. I am the same way about my other bunnies. I am very scared about feeding them the pellets. My aunt seen it happen and couldnt believe how fast they eat and start to choke on it and then die right away, just like the horse of her's that died on the same day. We cant believe how fast they can go so suddenly.. We miss him dearly, He was our first rabbit when we started this rabbitry. We just couldnt get the pellet to clear this time.. I tried everything in my power to help him.

I had to tell my 4 year old son that hes rabbit died. And told him about the horse also. He took it easier then i thought. We showed him the animals getting buried and told him where they are going. I really think that going to church helps them realize where they go when they die. 

R.I.P Spidy and Dot!ray::rainbow::rip::bunnyangel2::angelandbunny:


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## Anaira (Aug 28, 2010)

*hugs* I'm so sorry. I've never had a choking rabbit before, but a couple of my rat-boys have; I know how scary it is. You did the best thing possible for him; if your anything like me(hopefully your not), you'll be blaming yourself, but you don't have to. You did the best you possibly could.

r.i.p. Spider-man and Dot.


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## SnowyShiloh (Aug 29, 2010)

Poor Spider Man  Today I bought a nasal aspirator and put it on a shelf in a very obvious spot and made sure my husband knows where it is so we can grab it right away if we ever need to! I hope we won't need it!


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## mistyjr (Aug 29, 2010)

Well, I do blame myself for it. I know I did the best I can to try and save him. It wasnt the day for him to live anymore. I do miss him dearly. But yes its better to have the stuff on hand to save a bunnies life and then to be sorry.


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