# Poopie Butt



## I LuV MaH BuNs (Jul 16, 2005)

S'more has been getting really bad poopie butt for the past few months. This is a picture of her butt and her box. I couldn't get a better picture of her butt because she doesn't like coming out of her cage. We only have two spayed girls out of six girls and they both get poopie butt and gross scent glands, but, S'more gets it worse! Any ideas?


----------



## Lazyacre (Jul 16, 2005)

I call it Sticky BunsIt's prettycommon in some lops that get gigh protein diet, when I fed my Mini Lops18% proetein feed it was a real problem, now that they're on PurinaShow (16%) I haven't seen any Sticky Buns, even with the babies.

Another cause could be a bit of GI distress, sometimes if too muchcarbohydrates are eaten, bacteria can gow in the pooled sugars in thehind gut (cecum), causing the loose stools (they're actually liquifiedcecotropes). Other times it's a viral thing, much like we get "stomachflu". I'd give her loads of hay, or straw, and cut back on pellets andtreats for a few days. Do make sure it gets plenty of water, if notdrinking you may need to help her by syringe feeding some water and/orPedialyte.


----------



## I LuV MaH BuNs (Jul 16, 2005)

Thank you so much Rick!! We use Purina (thegreen bag) and we give them Kaytee hay. I will try putting somePedialyte in her water. If that doesn't work should we try Benebak?



Also, just adding, S'more is a Dutch!


----------



## Lazyacre (Jul 16, 2005)

I have Dutch too, but haven't had near theSticky Bun problem with them as with the lops. Gofiguregreen bag is 18% protein isn't it? You might tryadding some rolled oats (like Quaker Oats), a couple of tbs/day mighthelp to dry up the stools. Or switch to a 16% feed, Lebas (Frenchrabbit nutritionist) reported that for maintenance rabbits only require13% protein. Growing kits and lactating does need more-15-18%.


----------



## I LuV MaH BuNs (Jul 16, 2005)

The Oats made her fat so we give them oats once a week. The green bag is 16%


----------



## Lazyacre (Jul 17, 2005)

Interesting, I haven't used anything but PurinaShow for years, years past they had a chow that was 18%. I guess onlythe Adv Formula Professional is 18% now.

Oats shouldn't put on fat unless fed too much, it is lower in cqaloriesthan most feeds. When I feed oats i reduce the amount of pellets by thesame amount as the oats, essentially this reduces the total protein andenergy fed, puts nice firm flesh on my rabbits.


----------



## juicyjuicee (Jul 17, 2005)

My dutch bun use to get that too. I cut back onthe greens- its been like a month now and he got so much better. Hegets greens about twice a week now, but i'll have to look to see howmuch protein is in his feed....min is 15% but he has been eating a newfeed that has a min of 16%.


----------



## I LuV MaH BuNs (Jul 17, 2005)

What is the difference between Timothy based pellets and Alfalfa based pellets? Is one better than the other?


----------



## juicyjuicee (Jul 17, 2005)

I assume that timothy based is best for adults and alfalfa for youngins so they get the extra calcium and can grow and stuff.


----------



## I LuV MaH BuNs (Jul 17, 2005)

*juicyjuicee wrote:*


> I assume that timothy based is best for adults and alfalfafor youngins so they get the extra calcium and can grow andstuff.




I was talking about protein wize and for S'more's recovery! We are planning on taking her to the vet ASAP!


----------



## Pet_Bunny (Jul 17, 2005)

*I LuV MaH BuNs wrote:*


> What is the difference between Timothy based pellets andAlfalfa based pellets? Is one better than the other?



*Oxbow Bunny Basics/T* (Timothy) isspecifically designed to meet the particular nutritional needs of adultrabbits. Timothy grass hay provides the fiber necessary to maintaindigestive health. 

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (min) 14.00 %
Crude Fat (min) 1.50 %
Crude Fiber (min) 25.00 %
Crude Fiber (max) 29.00 %
Moisture (max) 10.00 %
Calcium(min) 0.35 %
Calcium (max) 0.85 %
Phosphorus (min) 0.25 %
Salt (min) 0.50 %
Salt (max) 1.00 %
Vitamin A, IU/kg 20,000
Vitamin D, IU/kg 880
Vitamin E, IU/kg 140
Copper, mg/kg 20

Ingredients
Timothy Grass Meal, Soybean Hulls, Wheat Middlings, Soybean Meal, Cane Molasses, Salt, Limestone.


------------------------------------------------------------


*Oxbow Bunny Basics 15/23* is an alfalfa-based pelletcreated especially for the specific dietary needs of the young oractive rabbit. Alfalfa hay, which is the main ingredient, is used toprovide an optimized, balanced protein source and contains the aminoacids required for the growth and health of your rabbit. 

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (min) 15.00 %
Crude Fat (min) 2.00 %
Crude Fiber (min) 22.00 %
Crude Fiber (max) 25.00 %
Moisture (max) 10.00 %
Calcium(min) 0.50 %
Calcium (max) 1.00 %
Phosphorus (min) 0.25 %
Salt (min) 0.50 %
Salt (max) 1.00 %
Vitamin A, IU/kg10,000
Vitamin D mg/kg 400
Vitamin E, IU/kg 140
Copper, mg/kg 13

Ingredients
Alfalfa Meal, Soybean Hulls, Wheat Middlings, Soybean Meal, Limestone, Salt, Cane Molasses.

Rainbows!


----------



## Lazyacre (Jul 18, 2005)

Usually timothy based pellets will be a bitlower in protein, major difference is usually the lower calcium contentof timothy vs alfalfa. Non producing adult rabbits don't require asmuch calcium. Low calcium can present problems in pregnant doe, itprevents normal action of oxytocin in stimulating labor contractions.Growing rabbits need it for bone growth.


----------



## HoppinHerdofHares (Jul 18, 2005)

When I have had some with poopie butts, I givethem watered down grean tea (half water/half tea) or lipton tea. I alsogive them oats, it has worked for me.



Qadoshyah


----------



## JimD (Jul 18, 2005)

Hiya!!

Thanks for all of the advice!! 

For those who don't already know, S'more is one of my bunnies (..,too  ).

I have started reducing pellets by up to 40%...so now they all getabout 3 oz. Hopefully they'll make up the difference with timothy hay.This morning they all still had leftover pellets...except for Binkie&amp; Rosie (which is typical...lil piggies  ). 

They are not currently getting greens, however I gave them all somedandelion greens yesterday...Mooshu was having none of that though(very picky lil gurl).

None of them are currently getting any treats (sad bunnies  ).

We're a bit concerned about S'more. I'm thinkinga trip to thevet may be in the near future. She's not in any distress. She eating,drinking and peeing okay. She's poopinokay, but her poopsseem to have gotten a bit smaller lately (they always were on the smallside, though). She recently finished a light molt, but she's never hadproblems with furblock..and we were giving her papaya as well. 

The ongoing poopie butt I think is from her cecotropes. I'm hoping thatit just the fact that she's maturing and may need some dietaryadustment. And maybe some treatment to get her system back on track. 

I'll try to give her some Nutri-cal tonight. We also have to clean her up again, and give her a good check over, too.

Poor baby gurl 

We'll do one change at a time and keep a close eye on her. 

I started to give them all some rolled oats and I'll see how that goes for a few days. 

I also want to switch S'more over to timothy based pellets. The PurinaI use is alfalfa based, but all of the buns are old enough that theydon't need the alfalfa. S'more is our oldest at about 3 years, andBinkie is the youngest at about 9 months. I can't afford to switch themall over, but I can switch S'more if it will help her.

**whew!!**

~Jim


----------



## naturestee (Jul 18, 2005)

If you're worried about cost, try Kaytee'sTimothy Complete. It's way cheaper than Oxbow and prettydecent in comparison. Not as much fiber, but still prettygood.


----------



## JimD (Jul 18, 2005)

*naturestee wrote:*


> If you're worried about cost, try Kaytee's TimothyComplete. It's way cheaper than Oxbow and pretty decent incomparison. Not as much fiber, but still pretty good.


There are several brands of timothy based pellets convenientlyavailable for me, except Oxbow. I haven't been able to find a supplierof Oxbow products that is a reasonabletraveling distance.

For one bunnie the cost is really not a factor. 

For all 7, I go through about 50# of pellets in a month. I usually buy a 25# bag every 2-3 weeks. 25# of Purina goes for $7.50.


----------



## Carolyn (Jul 18, 2005)

You might cut down on the pellets and just givea lot of timothy hay at this point until S'mores dries up a bit;besides the extra fiber won't hurt scrape her system clean.I'd give her NutriCal daily, whether she liked it or not, along withsome canned pumpkin just in case she is low on her fiber. 

It's encouraging that she's still pooping and eating anddrinking. Make sure that she stays hydrated.Tetracycline might be something to consider if thiscontinues. 

Will keep your baby in my prayers. Please keep us posted.

ray:

-Carolyn


----------



## naturestee (Jul 18, 2005)

You could also try a no-pellet diet. Here's some info.

http://www.leithpetwerks.com/Bunfun/nonpellet.html


----------



## JimD (Jul 19, 2005)

We last cleaned S'more up a few weeks ago. 

She had crusted poops, fur was groomed away,and skin was very irritated. We cleaned her tushie w/ water, dried herwell, and applied antibiotic/pain relief ointment. We also trimmed someof the fur that seemed more prone to soiling.

Her daily diet had been adjusted over the last4-6 weeks to unlimited timothy hay, unlimited fresh water, and 4-5 ozof pellets. Greens and treats were eliminated. 1 tspn of rolled oatswere given 1-2 times a week.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Last night 7/18

She had a lesser amount of crusted poops thanbefore, some of the fur that was groomed away had grown back, but theskin was still very irritated.

We cleaned her tushie w/ warm water, used babyoil to break down poopies, dried the area well, and appliedantibiotic/pain relief ointment.

Yesterday by 10pm she had consumed:

1 ½ oz pellets

2 tsps rolled oats

small amount of timothy hay

½ inch of Nutri-cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

7/19/05

This morning she had pooped and peed. Not largeamount, but reasonable considering her intake.Poops are uniformlysmallish (small pea size), black (or very dark brown), and relitivelyhard (although bunnie poops dry pretty fast). 

I emptied her bowl and gave her 1/3 cup offresh pellets, cleaned and filled her water bottle, added fresh litterto her pan, and made sure her hay rack and sleepie box were full offresh timothy hay.

She nibbled a few oats and a little bit of hay.

She doesnt seem as active as usual, but isvery alert and responsive. Uppity ears and bright eyes. Eyes, ears andnose clean. Breathing is normal. Fur is in good condition. She seems tohave lost some weight over the last few weeks that we attributed to herdiet adjustment; however she was overweight and still has good weighton. She doesnt seem bloated and her tummy is quiet. No indications ofpain such as tooth grinding.

There will be someone home most of the day so we can keep an eye on her condition.

We are picking up canned pumpkin, Pedialyte,and a syringe today, and will begin to force liquids and fiber thisafternoon if necessary.

We have a 7pm appointment with the vet today.They also gave me the information for the emergency facility that theyrefer to, just in case.



~Jim


----------



## CorkysMom (Jul 19, 2005)

Sending good thoughts your and S'mores way..... hope things turn out ok! Good luck at the vet!


----------



## Carolyn (Jul 19, 2005)

*JimD wrote:*


> We are picking upcanned pumpkin, Pedialyte, and a syringe today, and will begin to forceliquids and fiber this afternoon if necessary.




Would suggest someone at home give her an inch of NutriCal today aswell. Not only will it help promote her appetite, hopefully,it has laxatone in it, as well as will boost her immunesystem. 

Ask the vet about administering some powdered tetracycline(antibiotic). You can use 1 tsp. per gallon ofwater. It can be purchased a rabbit supply stores or feedstores generally.

Thoughts and prayers go out your way. ray: 

-Carolyn


----------



## naturestee (Jul 19, 2005)

More good thoughts coming! Get better, S'more!

:bouquet:


----------



## JimD (Jul 19, 2005)

About an hour ago S'more took another 1/2inchof Nutrical and drank some water. She pooped and it was abit soft, but at least she pooped.


----------



## Carolyn (Jul 19, 2005)

*JimD wrote: *


> Aboutan hour ago S'more took another 1/2 inchof Nutrical and dranksome water. She pooped and it was a bit soft, but at least shepooped.




That's certainly good news! At least it shows her system canstill get things through. Time for that canned pumpkin!

-Carolyn


----------



## Pet_Bunny (Jul 19, 2005)

In this situation, mix someAlfalfa hay in with the Timothy hay for S'more. UseAlfalfa hay as an appetite stimulant.This might encourage her to eat more hay to get hersystem moving. In normal situations, asmall pinch can be given as a treat. Getwell S'more, sending youour good thoughts and wishes.

Rainbows!


----------



## JimD (Jul 19, 2005)

*Carolyn wrote:*


> *JimD wrote: *
> 
> 
> > About an hour agoS'more took another 1/2 inchof Nutrical and drank some water.She pooped and it was a bit soft, but at least she pooped.
> ...


I should be home in an hour and then we'll start with the cannedpumpkin and Pedialyte. I'll also give her another 1/2 inch of Nutri-cal.

Thanks everybody. I sure am glad you're all here and I'm not going through this alone.

Buck would be proud!!


----------



## Carolyn (Jul 19, 2005)

*JimD wrote: *


> Buck would be proud!!




He most certainly would be, My Friend.


----------



## Carolyn (Jul 20, 2005)

So how's our little girl doing today?

-Carolyn


----------



## JimD (Jul 20, 2005)

We're taking her to the vet.

We've been able to force pumpkin, pedialyte, and Nutri-cal, But she doesn't seem to be improving.

She's not in distress, but I'd feel much better if we get her seen by the vet.

I called Banfield this morning and they said that I could bring her inand leave her. The vet will examine her and then call. I thought thiswas a better option than going in a 3pm and waiting. This way she willbe monitored by the nurses the entire time she is there. And it's at noextra cost.

We're off to the vet in a few minutes. I'll post an update later.

~Jim


----------



## Carolyn (Jul 20, 2005)

ray:

Will be thinking of you and await the good news that all went well.

-Carolyn


----------



## bunsforlife (Jul 20, 2005)

Thinkin of you guys, and hoping to hear some good news!


----------



## JimD (Jul 20, 2005)

Just got back from dropping S'more at the vet. She's in very caring and capable hands. 

Now comes the loooooong wait for the phone call. I hate this part.


----------



## Snuggys Mom (Jul 20, 2005)

Oh, Jim and Danielle. I just readthrough this post. I had no idea how serious Smore'scondition was. I'll say a prayer for her and y'all, too.

Laura


----------



## Carolyn (Jul 20, 2005)

any news from the vet???:waiting:


----------



## FreddysMom (Jul 20, 2005)

Im sure S'more will be just fine withall those caring hands at home and at the vet .... Jim, you said youcant find Oxbow within a resonable distance ... there are two placesnear me that carry it... Scuffy's pet center is in the PreaknessShopping center on hamburg turnpike in wayne.. it should only be about~20mins from you .. they always have oxbow pellets ... another place isFranklin lakes animal hospital where i take freddy n vicky..in franklinlakes ...they dont always have it so i would advisecallingbefore you take a trip over.. or you can order onlineatwww.oxbowhay.com........goodluckwith S'more!!


----------



## Carolyn (Jul 21, 2005)

Morning news,please??



-Carolyn


----------



## Snuggys Mom (Jul 21, 2005)

*FreddysMom wrote:*


> Jim, you said you cant find Oxbow within a resonabledistance ... you can order online athttp://www.oxbowhay.com


I order fromwww.theferretstore.com andthere's no shipping fee if you order $35 or more. I havenever had a problem with them and the order comes within a week.

Hope Smore is better. Please let us know.

Laura


----------



## JimD (Jul 21, 2005)

Smore has been taking 1 inch of Nutri-cal, canned pumpkin, andpedialyte daily (since Tuesday). She has been drinking about half ofher normal intake of water, but has really not eaten pellets or muchhay. She nibbles at the rolled oats that we put in with her pellets.Her system is still working as far as poops and peeing. Although it isin small amounts it is reasonable for her current intake. Her poopiebutt has improved and she was very active today during free time.


Yesterday we dropped S'more off at the vet around noon and theycalled us at around 2:30pm to let us know we could pick her up ataround 3pm.

Smore is a Dutch, spayed, and weighs6.9 lbs. Shes at least 2 years old and had at least one litter ofhealthy babies. Shes been with us for almost 1 ½ years.

The vet is suspecting that Smore has abacterial infection in her GI tract and it is causing othercomplications such as; unbalance of flora, gas, and a possiblefurblock. She said that the fact that her GI system is still working isgood and that we caught the problem at a very early stage.

She advised us to continue hometreatment of canned pumpkin, Pedialyte, and Nutri-cal. She alsosuggested we add fresh pineapple and papaya tablets.

At the office the vet examined her andgave her fluids via IV. They monitored her for about 2 hours. The vetsaid that she has some abdominal distention, but she isnt in any pain.She palpitated her and didnt find anything abnormal aside from somebloat as she had previously mentioned. She prescribed oral antibiotics(Trimethp/Sulfamthzl ?) , Benebac, and Laxatone. She called us at homea few hours after we picked up Smore to she how things were going. Shealso wanted to be sure we understood the diagnosis and treatment sheprescribed. She wants us to treat her and may add Simethicone to thetreatment on Friday if conditions do not improve. We have a follow-upscheduled for next Wednesday(7/27).

Smore pooped and peed in small amounts,after we got her home. We gave her meds and continued home treatments.Last thing she took was some canned pumpkin and Pedialyte at around12am.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


7/21/05

Smore pooped and peed a small amountduring the night. She drank a little water, maybe an ounce. She nibbleda few rolled oats and hay, but it doesnt look like she ate anypellets. Before I left for work she had pooped and peed again, still insmall amounts. I cleaned and changed her litter pan so we can continueto monitor her output.


----------



## Carolyn (Jul 21, 2005)

Thanks for the update. I've been worried about you and yours. 

Prayers continue.

ray:

-Carolyn


----------



## JimD (Jul 21, 2005)

I just got back from lunch and checking onS'more. She pooped and peed again....more poops than there have been!!She drank some water and nibbled some oats and hay, too. 

I woke Danielle up and she gave her meds. She alsogave hersome pumpkin and Pedialyte. (Danielle just called me and wants to knowhow to get *pumpkin* off of the ceiling:shock. She'll get some Nutri-cal when I get home and we'll see ifshe'll take some fresh pineapple, too.

I'll be picking up some simethicone on the way home. CVS has it inliquid form by the brand name of "Mylicon". 2cc's are recommended bymost resources. It's also suggested to mix it in with a dose ofPedialyte. 

Here's what the Vancouver Rabbit Rescue had: "Go home andsyringe into your bunny 1cc if small and 2cc if medium or large. Ifyour bun allows it, gently massage his stomach (gently!). Wait an hourand offer the treat again. If the bunny still does not eat, repeat thedose. (The simethecone is completely harmless and if the rabbit is notsuffering from gas problems it will do no harm.) Wait 2 hours and thengive some more if she still does not eat.".......After this they recommend a vet visit to examinefor more serious conditions, but I've already been there and she'salready being treated.

I'm wondering how many doses and for how many days I should do the simethicone, though.


----------



## FreddysMom (Jul 21, 2005)

*JimD wrote: *


> I
> I'll be picking up some simethicone on the way home. CVS has it inliquid form by the brand name of "Mylicon". 2cc's are recommended bymost resources. It's also suggested to mix it in with a dose ofPedialyte.
> 
> Here's what the Vancouver Rabbit Rescue had: "Go home andsyringe into your bunny 1cc if small and 2cc if medium or large. Ifyour bun allows it, gently massage his stomach (gently!). Wait an hourand offer the treat again. If the bunny still does not eat, repeat thedose. (The simethecone is completely harmless and if the rabbit is notsuffering from gas problems it will do no harm.) Wait 2 hours and thengive some more if she still does not eat.".......After this they recommend a vet visit to examinefor more serious conditions, but I've already been there and she'salready being treated.
> ...


i found a dosage calculator..heres the link.. they havesimethicone listed on there it will tell you how much and for how longand lists possibleside effects


----------



## Carolyn (Jul 21, 2005)

Simethiconefor gas that's caught up in the hairball, 2x a day - .03 ml. is what I gave Tucks - my 4 lb. Polish Prince.

Things are definitely looking up! 

Prayers continue. Should couldn't be in better care than yours and Danielle's. 

-Carolyn


----------



## JimD (Jul 21, 2005)

*Carolyn wrote:*


> Simethicone...... 2x a day - .03 ml. is what Igave Tucks - my 4 lb. Polish Prince.
> 
> 
> -Carolyn




That's closer to what I was thinking. I had calculated .06 ml twice a day. 

The VRRA instructions sounded like a bit too much.... yes.... no? 2 ml.. wait an hour... 2 ml more... wait 2 hours... 2 ml more.


----------



## Carolyn (Jul 21, 2005)

I just gave him the .03 ml in the morning and evening and it worked well for him.

Wouldn't go the .02 wait an hour or 2 hours route and then treatagain. It might not be giving it enough of time to work onher system. 

-Carolyn


----------



## Carolyn (Jul 22, 2005)

What's the poop? 

-Carolyn


----------



## JimD (Jul 22, 2005)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> What's the poop?
> 
> -Carolyn


.....what's the poop?....***groan***:disgust:

This picks up from where I last left off....

*7/21(Thursday, 12pm).....*

In addition to the treatments we have beengiving, S'more has started to eat a little more hay, oats and somepellets.

The quantity and size of her poops has alsoincreased a bit. There is evidence of fur in her poops, hopefullyindicating that her system is starting to pass any possibleblockage.

We started to add fresh pineapple juice to thepedialyte today to help with any furblock and to increase her liquidintake.

We decided to add simeticone to her treatment and she got her first dose this evening.


*7/22/05 (Today, 6am)*

Smore had pooped and peed during the night.The quantity of poops has increased a bit and they are softer, larger,and lighter in color. There was more evidence of fur beingpassed.

She also passed a cecal this morning. It wasfairly well formed, but was a bit on the soft/stickyside.

When I gave her fresh pellets and some oats sheimmediately got out of her sleepie box and ate some ofboth.

Within a few minutes of eating she made a fewpoops and peed a little.

She appears less bloated.

~Jim


----------



## Carolyn (Jul 22, 2005)

*JimD wrote:*


> Smore had pooped and peedduring the night. The quantity of poops has increased a bit and theyare softer, larger, and lighter in color. There was more evidence offur being passed.




:clap:

:yes:


----------



## CorkysMom (Jul 22, 2005)

Glad to hear shes progressing in the right direction!! Good job!!! Hang in the S'more....your doin great!!!


----------



## Pet_Bunny (Jul 22, 2005)

Good Diary.....Sounds like she's recovering. :bunnydance:

Rainbows!


----------



## JimD (Jul 22, 2005)

S'more seems to be improving a bit at a time.

Her poops and peeing have remain about the same.

We're still with the whole meds and treatments thing. 

She is really starting to fight us though. She becoming a very messystained stickie stinkie bunnie. Pumpkin is starting to stain her fur.The laxatone and Nutri-cal are really messing her up because she willonly take it if we wipe it on her paws. IMO... Nutri-calsmells like doggie-breath.... and probably tastes like it too. 

I gotst pumpkin, Laxatone,and Nutri-cal on the ceiling of the bunnie room from her expert flicking maneuver, too.

I was telling Carolyn that S'more has also figured out a way to pushher tongue against the end of the syringe when we put it in her mouthto force pumpkin or pedialyte. She gets real calm and stops fighting.She then lets it collect in her cheek and then .....patooeythppth...outit oozes when we take the syringe out. Gotta love the little turd . 

I'd be concerned about her intake, but she has actually started to eat and drink a little on her own. 

I added some vanilla to her water and she went right for it and drank about an ounce right away.

~Jim


----------



## FreddysMom (Jul 22, 2005)

S'more is quite the tricky bun! I am glad tohear she is doing so well! hehe and is that how she got the pumpkin onthe ceiling that Danielle inquired as to how to get it off the ceiling?


----------



## JimD (Jul 22, 2005)

*FreddysMom wrote:*


> .....is that how she got the pumpkin on theceiling that Danielle inquired as to how to get it off the ceiling?


Well...not exactly.

She was syringing some pumpkin into S'more's mouth. Chippy startedthumping and distracted Danielle. Danielle looked away for a moment anddidn't realize that S'more had moved her head. So it was reallyDanielle who did that stain. Those little syringes have pretty goodrange.

I took a different approach. I tried to put the pumpkin on S'more's pawlike you would do with Nutri-cal. Take my advice and do not do this.Doesn't have the same "stick-to-the-paw" quality as Nutri-cal orLaxatone.LOOKOUT!!!FLYING PUMPKIN!!!:shock:


----------



## FreddysMom (Jul 22, 2005)

lol its never a dull day with these buns!


----------



## naturestee (Jul 22, 2005)

*JimD wrote:*


> IMO... Nutri-cal smells like doggie-breath.... andprobably tastes like it too.


I gave Loke Nutri-cal when he came home from the shelter. Hehated the taste so much that it made him eat the pellets and hay he hadbeen avoiding like the plague. It was lick, make a face,eat some pellets, lick, make a face, eat some hay.

Glad to hear she's doing better! She's a spunky, funky (smelling) bunny!


----------



## FreddysMom (Jul 22, 2005)

guess which silly rabbit actually likesnutri-cal? fat boy freddy! ...when we first got lil Vicky she was waaayunderweight so she had have nutri-cal and of course she hated it so idhave to smear it on her paws....well fat boy could not be near her b/che would eat it off her paws!! i thought maybe he was helpin her orsomething so i put a lil on my finger to see if he really liked it..hewent bonkers for it! silly rabbit!


----------



## Carolyn (Jul 22, 2005)

:bunnydance: Go S'mores! :bunnydance:


----------



## I LuV MaH BuNs (Jul 23, 2005)

[align=center]*********Update*********[/align]
[align=right]7-23-05[/align]
[align=left]S'more ate some pellets, oats, and hay. She also drank somewater. Daddy decided that since I have not been feeling to good thepast 3 or 4 days that today he wouldn't wake me up to give her themeds. He didn't want to do another Bunny 500 in the cage so he wrappedher up in a blanket. He got pretty scratched up, but when she figuredout that he was not letting go, she sat still in the blanket and justlet him give her the meds. She pooped and peed a little bit last night.She just keeps getting better!![/align]


----------



## naturestee (Jul 23, 2005)

Great news!


----------



## bunsforlife (Jul 23, 2005)

Wonderful news! Just came back fromTucker Town and I got smeared with poo from Fauna, poor dear has apoopy butt! Watched both of the dears get a healthy helpingon Nutrical... boy was Tucker TICKED! 

Poopy butts are definitely not a healthy thing, hopefully Fauna's improves too!


----------



## I LuV MaH BuNs (Jul 23, 2005)

*throws a fit* 

I WANNA GO TO TUCKER TOWN!!! 28 DAYS BABY!! :groupparty::jumpforjoy::waiting:


----------



## I LuV MaH BuNs (Jul 23, 2005)

Oh yeah, S'more ate 1/4 of a romaine leaf today


----------



## bunsforlife (Jul 23, 2005)

Tucker Town Rawks 

And I GOT CALI KISSES! 

::coughs:: okay... sorry, back to poopie butts...


----------



## I LuV MaH BuNs (Jul 23, 2005)

im not talking to you!!!! haha


----------



## JimD (Jul 25, 2005)

I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping that S'more is finally starting to make a comeback.

Her eating and drinking are only about half of what they are normally,but she doing it on her own. We eased back on forcing fluid and pumpkinover the weekend and she started eating some hay, pellets and someoats. She also started to drink a little from her bottle every now andthen.

She even decided to eat some romaine and a couple of raisins over the weekend, too.

Her poops are almost normal size, but are very light brown (possiblyfrom all the meds we're giving her). And the quantity has increasedquite a bit. She also producing cecals that almost appear normal insize consistancy and color. Urine output has also increased.

That's my gurl!!!

She has started to sleep and lounge in her litter pan. I'm wondering ifshe has developed an aversion to her sleepie box because we had beenadministering her med while she was sitting in it. We stopped givingher meds in her cage because she has starting stuggling so much. Now wejust do a bunnie-burrito and it's a lot easier.

I also noticed that some of the meds have gotten on the inside of hersleepie box, propbably when she was trying to flick stuff off. I thinkI'll just replace it, rather than try to clean it. She can most likelysmell it and associates it with getting the yucky tasting stuff. 

She hates pumpkin, but Chippy and Rosie-roo love it, so it won't go to waste.


----------



## CorkysMom (Jul 25, 2005)

Sounds like she's heading in the rightdirection!! Good job!! Way to go Jim, Danielle andS'more!!! Hang in there guys!


----------



## Carolyn (Jul 25, 2005)

ray:


----------



## JimD (Jul 26, 2005)

Greetings All !!

Just an update.

S'more seems to be almost back to normal. She's poopin alomst normal,eating, drinking, and jumping around like crazy trying to get at heroats.

We have a follow-up with the vet tomorrow and I think she will be very pleased with S'mores improvement.

~Jim


----------



##  (Jul 26, 2005)

Jim : I amso glad S'mores getting betterI have been following this thread like ahawk , havent posted, I waswatching intently tho , It certainly has been arough week for the 3 of you .Please feel Free to PM anytime .


----------



## Carolyn (Jul 26, 2005)

*JimD wrote: *


> Greetings All !!
> 
> Just an update.
> 
> ...




Thank Goodness!

-Carolyn


----------



## I LuV MaH BuNs (Jul 27, 2005)

We just back from the vet, Dr Frezzo said that"S'more it a different bunny from the last time"she saw her!!I am so happy that S'more is getting better. We have the prayer cardthat Helen gave us right above her cage and I feel that Carl had a lotto do with her recovery!!! Thank you everyone for your prayers and goodthoughts!! We got through this together!!! THANK YOU!! :kiss:


----------



## Carolyn (Jul 27, 2005)

I do feel Carl helped too.

Without you and your father, she never would've made it. Pat yourselves on the backs for saving, yet another, rabbit's life.

:highfive: :highfive:

-Carolyn


----------



## JimD (Jul 28, 2005)

S'more is doing really well. The vet was verypleased and complimented us on the home care we had given. S'more willstill be on antibiotic for a couple of weeks as a precaution. 

Her pooping, peeing, eating, and drinking are alomost normal now. Herdaily diet is limited alfalfa-based pellets (1/3 cup/day), unlimitedtimothy hay, unlimited fresh water, 2 tspn rolled oats, and 1/2 leaf ofromaine. The only med she is on now is the antibiotics.

She's also has become more accustomed to being handled. Last night shewas very content to sit on our laps and be petted. Danielle even gotsome kisses!!


----------



## Carolyn (Jul 28, 2005)

*JimD wrote: *


> She'salso has become more accustomed to being handled. Last night she wasvery content to sit on our laps and be petted. Danielle even got somekisses!!




Surprisingly, these things do tend to bring them closer to us. All those dirty looks and kicks finally paid off.

She trusts you now more than she ever did before.

-Carolyn


----------



## Snuggys Mom (Jul 28, 2005)

So glad to hear this, Jim and Danielle. Y'all did such a great job bringing her back. 





Laura


----------



## JimD (Aug 2, 2005)

This is so Deja vu !

We've pretty much run in a complete circle and we're back to having poopie butt.

What's with this??

It's definately from her cecals being excessive and kind of soft. 

Her poops are back to normal, after her GI problem. 

She's eating and drinking normally. Limited pellets (alfalfa-based) ,unlimited timothy hay, fresh water, 2 tspns of oats daily, 1/2 leafromaine daily.

I guess it's time to change to timothy-based pellets and see if that helps.

She's still on antibiotics for the next week or so.

~Jim


----------



## Snuggys Mom (Aug 2, 2005)

Jim D, I'm sorry to hear S'more is still havingtrouble. I know I sound like a broken record, but Oxbow tookcare of all our soft poo problems. You know howmuch you love Woody Pet? That's how much I loveOxbow!







The new Fuzzy Lop I got for my friend was on Purina and having REALLYexcessive smooshy poos. We've now switched him to my OxbowTimothy pellets and it took care of the problem. The proteinis lower, so I'm assuming that's what helped. His coat is alot nicer now, too.

http://www.theferretstore.comdeliversfor free if you order $35 worth. 

Bunny Basics/T

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (min) 14.00 %
Crude Fat (min) 1.50 %
Crude Fiber (min) 25.00 %
Crude Fiber (max) 29.00 %
Moisture (max) 10.00 %
Calcium(min) 0.35 %
Calcium (max) 0.85 %
Phosphorus (min) 0.25 %
Salt (min) 0.50 %
Salt (max) 1.00 %
Vitamin A, IU/kg 20,000
Vitamin D, IU/kg 880
Vitamin E, IU/kg 140
Copper, mg/kg 20 


I use the hay, too and allmy bunnies LOVE it.


----------



## Carolyn (Aug 2, 2005)

How much protein is in the pellets your giving, Jim?

I can't make out the picture in your new avatar. What is it?

-Carolyn


----------



## CorkysMom (Aug 2, 2005)

Corky seemed to have alot more of those icky poos when he was on meds too....dunno if its related, but sure seemed that way!


----------



## Carolyn (Aug 2, 2005)

*PuterGeekGirl wrote:*


> Corky seemed to have alot more of those icky poos when hewas on meds too....dunno if its related, but sure seemed thatway!




Absolutely could be related, PGG.


----------



## CorkysMom (Aug 2, 2005)

I was also told to give him a lil yogurt acouple times a day to help with the looser stools...would help replacethe bacteria...too had he HATED it...LOL


----------



## Carolyn (Aug 2, 2005)

As noted by Buck:

* * * * * *

We've had vets recommend it to us for ailing buns on occasion, yetothers claim it upsets the natural flora and fauna within the digestivesystem and should be avoided.

Like everything in life, moderation goes a long way. None ofour buns ever obviously suffered from the yogurt they ingested whilebeing treated as per veterinarian advice, but I thought it necessary toprovide you with the caveat in the case that you were thinking ofmaking it a normal part of your bun's diet. I would not.

Buck

* * * * * * *

Be sure the yogurt you give has low, or no, sugar. Bumped upa post about Yogurt - which has this note from Buck in it andinformation from Pamnock.

-Carolyn


----------



## JimD (Aug 2, 2005)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> As noted by Buck:
> 
> * * * * * *
> 
> ...


Thanks Carolyn!!

Our vet advised not to give S'more yogurt just for the reason Buck had stated. She opted for the Benebac instead.


----------



## JimD (Aug 2, 2005)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> How much protein is in the pellets your giving, Jim?
> 
> 
> -Carolyn


I'm using the Purina Green Bag right now.....I think it's 16%

I'm switching to either Kaytee Timothy complete or Oxbow timothypellets. Kaytee is avaiible at almost all of the pet supply store. AndFreddysMom let me know of a store that carries Oxbow thats about 20-30minutes from me.


----------



## JimD (Aug 2, 2005)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> I can't make out the picture in your new avatar. What is it?
> 
> -Carolyn


It's "The Long Patrol" from the Redwall books......


----------



## Carolyn (Aug 2, 2005)

That protein is a bit high at 16%. Might want to consider something with 12% or so.

Cool picture, Jim!

-Carolyn


----------



## JimD (Aug 2, 2005)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> Thatprotein is a bit high at 16%. Might want to considersomething with 12% or so.
> 
> Cool picture, Jim!
> 
> -Carolyn




Kaytee ie 13%. Oxbow is 14% .

As for the picture....those brave bunnies were the protectors in thestory....kind of like a boarder patrol. The book is called The LongPatrol by Brian Jacques.


----------



## Carolyn (Aug 3, 2005)

How's our baby girl today?

-Carolyn


----------



## JimD (Aug 3, 2005)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> How's our baby girl today?
> 
> -Carolyn


S'more is having a _*very*_ good day today, thankyouverymuch.


----------



## JimD (Aug 23, 2005)

***bump for cmh9023***


----------



## wintermelon (Aug 24, 2005)

*Lazyacre wrote:*


> Usually timothy based pellets will be a bit lower inprotein, major difference is usually the lower calcium content oftimothy vs alfalfa. Non producing adult rabbits don't require as muchcalcium. Low calcium can present problems in pregnant doe, it preventsnormal action of oxytocin in stimulating labor contractions. Growingrabbits need it for bone growth.




I got a question here...producing females need more calcium, hence itis better to feed them an alfalfa based diet. How about males that are"active" once in a while?

Thanks.


----------



## JimD (Jun 22, 2006)

I don't think I ever posted this during S'more's brush with the reaper. She was soooo sick when this happen....and it was like a miracle. Tina's bunnie Misty was close to crossing, but was struggling to stay. I think she used some of her last strength to help S'more.

......here's the PM I sent Tina....check out the date and when it fits into this thread.


_____Original Message_____

*Date: 2005-07-26 09:59:21
*
Hi Tina,

I just am so amazed with Misty. This must be so stressful for you.

I shared something with Carolyn and thought you might want to know also.

Keep in mind that I'm am sceptical of things like this, but have seen and felt things recently to make me more of a believer.

Last night I made my last check on the bunnies and turned off the light in their room. A few minutes later I was walking past their room and Smore was presenting herself to what appeared to be a tiny pink/purple orb in her cage. It was only there for a few moments and then it was gone. 

I could see the faint glow on Smores face so I know I wasnt imagining it. She was positioned with her back to the windows so it wasnt a light or reflection from outside. I was standing in the doorway to their room and then walked up to her cage before it disappeared so I dont think it was something coming from behind me. And then there was just the way Smore was reacting. She was so calm and relaxed, but very obviously presenting herself. She stayed that way for a few moments after it disappeared and then calmly raised her head and looked at me with such peace on her face.

This morning Smore appeared to be her normal self again. Shes pooping almost completely normal, eating, drinking, jumping around to get at her oats. Im convinced that something came to visit her last night to tell her that she needed to get better and it wasnt her time to go yet. I think it was Misty.



~Jim


----------

