# Bunny spinal injury care??



## annabelle00 (Mar 23, 2013)

My bunny had a spinal injury six weeks ago. He's been on metacam since then. There have been times where he seemed to move his legs. 
He's a cashmere mini and his one left leg which he rests on tends to get very soiled. I do clean him but some of the mushy poo and pee still remains and I really don't want to keep moving him. When I look at his leg I get worried about about him getting infections or urine scald. I put some tissue to absorb what sticks and he's got a drop pan underneath. It's been six weeks and I'm pretty sure his lack of progress is due to my cleaning or sitting him straight :help

I used cornstarch too...made it so much easier...but it still remains soiled and discolored...some of the cecetropes clumps on him when he sits on his legs...also when he does this later on his legs don't move much. I managed to get him to sit up straight once (somehow) and three days later I checked and he moved his legs as though he was hopping/binkying...with me holding his back side up(encouraging but not good considering the strain he could put on his back)

Totally panicking it's already been six weeks and although there has been very little progress it seems to go bad everytime he sleeps sideways. Should I let him sleep sideways or get him to sit straight (not sure how as that usually ends up with me moving a lot or him being squirmish...:help
when i sit him straight he digs through the hay or turns himself over.

Also if a rabbit had a spinal injury would it be appropriate for a vet to hold him up while letting his hind end dangle (she was checking for feeling in his toes)?


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## Imbrium (Mar 23, 2013)

*waves* welcome! I'm glad to see you decided to join RO!... hopefully someone here will be able to give you some good advice 

just to fill folks in, we've already had a bit of a chat about this over on Yahoo Answers - here's that conversation: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130323002522AARAx0C


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## PaGal (Mar 23, 2013)

I am sorry that you and your bun are in this situation. I am not experienced enough to give advice, hopefully someone that is will come along. At the very least you can find caring people here that love buns and will support you. Welcome!


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## MBP3 (Mar 23, 2013)

Does your vet have extra training on rabbits. Many vets don't receive much training on rabbits in their course work, according to my vet. She took extra classes in treatment of rabbits, but she still sends us at time to a expert in rabbits. I am not saying your vet has no experience with rabbits, just wanted to inform you since you were not sure if your vet should be holding the rabbit with the legs dangling. I don't know if that is bad. 
I have a rabbit that has a spinal injury, but not has critical has yours. Our rabbit Hoppy has trouble cleanning his ears on his left side and we often have to clean drobbings near his genitals and his foot. He does hop around okay. If you are not sure of your vet, check out to see if there is a house rabbit society in your area and they may have a list (that is where I found my vet) that they recommend. You can check to see if your doctor is on their list, and if not see if there is a doctor nearby that maybe you can get a second opinion.


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## Ilovemyrabbit (Mar 23, 2013)

I don't know much about spinal injuries, hopefully someone will come on and help. I will pray for your bun.


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## Blue eyes (Mar 23, 2013)

Oh, it's been awhile since I've since him on RO, but does anyone remember the rabbit owner/vet that has been on this forum? Maybe he would have a suggestion. (His forum name escapes me)


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## annabelle00 (Mar 23, 2013)

Imbrium said:


> *waves* welcome! I'm glad to see you decided to join RO!... hopefully someone here will be able to give you some good advice
> 
> just to fill folks in, we've already had a bit of a chat about this over on Yahoo Answers - here's that conversation: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130323002522AARAx0C


 
yes! Thanks for the advice! I had forgotten but there was a vet nurse who boards rabbits around the city area I lived in.

She's a general vet so I'm not sure...her advice on sitting him straight was pretty close to what I've seen on rabbit sites for spine injuries though. But after going to her his legs had pretty much lacked any movement. Although I don't know if that's from putting him in a carrier with movre constraint

In the first two weeks I once managed to sit him up and in a few days he had improved. But its pretty hard to get him to sit up without moving him and touching his spine xs I figure it would be better for someone with experience

Will be taking x rays although his are likely to inflammation.


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## Imbrium (Mar 23, 2013)

Blue eyes said:


> Oh, it's been awhile since I've since him on RO, but does anyone remember the rabbit owner/vet that has been on this forum? Maybe he would have a suggestion. (His forum name escapes me)



Geoff? yeah, I was hoping he'd comment on this if he's still floating around... could be worth a PM...


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## annabelle00 (Mar 25, 2013)

Would anyone know about using comfrey for spine injury?


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## ladysown (Mar 25, 2013)

spinal cord injuries....To keep the rabbit sitting more upright you need to stuff hay or towels around him. You basically don't want him slumping over or moving around a whole lot.


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## tonyshuman (Mar 26, 2013)

It sounds like at this point the loss of mobility isn't going to go away, so you will need to adapt his living situation to make him comfortable. Several members have taken care of disabled rabbits, and there is a yahoo group for disabled rabbits as well. I think the Metacam at this point is probably just causing stomach and/or kidney injury, which it can do if given long-term. It reduces swelling, which is why it's given right after a spinal injury, hoping that reducing the swelling will allow the nerves to heal. If he is in pain, then it might be good to keep it up. If the pain is from pressure sores, there are other ways to deal with that. I have seen pillows made for bunnies that they will prop themselves up on: https://sites.google.com/site/thehareapparent/bunny-hugger-bunny-beds . There are other materials you can use to reduce the time the urine is in contact with his skin, and other than cecotropes, changing his diet should make all the feces non-messy. Here's some more info for disabled rabbits:
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f22/disabled-bunnies-27352/

It really seems that after 6 weeks, the swelling should have gone down and movement should have returned if it's going to happen. I would discuss with your vet if he thinks your bun will improve.


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## annabelle00 (Mar 28, 2013)

Took him to the vet yesterday and he does say that it would be most likely nerve damage or a bone fracture. Caramel did show lots of progress in the last couple of days. He's moving his legs, hopping, kicking, flinching when getting his toes pressed too. I'm just hoping that we keep going forward with his progress and he manages to get his back off the floor without help. That would be the aim now and making sure his injury doesn't compound itself. 

I'm thinking of taking him to a homeopathic. I bought some comfrey yesterday, don't think we have any willow in this part of the world (?) 

I had bought some birch bark herbage by burgess excel from the uk but people at the airport aren't letting it through. It needs to be heat treated before they let it in. The heat treatment would be at 85 C for 8 hrs. Would any of the nutrients still remain? would it still work?


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## tonyshuman (Mar 29, 2013)

Oh that is good to hear. I am not sure about the homeopathic stuff, but I do know that some forms of massage and even accupuncture have helped some bunnies with mobility problems. If you PM the member TreasuredFriend, she may have some info for you. She had a paralyzed bun that she took care of for many happy years. She is quite busy with her rabbit rescue and hasn't been on the forum a lot lately, but may respond if you send a PM. She may also have documented some of her attempts with Karla on her rescue's website. She was totally hind leg paralyzed, but they did a variety of things to make her more comfortable and have a normal bunny life. Her email is at the bottom of the webpage as well. You may also want to look into the book "When Your Rabbit Needs Special Care" and the Yahoo group DisabledRabbits.

http://www.linedgroundsquirrels.com/KarlaPVCWheelcart.html
http://www.linedgroundsquirrels.com/SoulmateRabbitRescue.html


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## Imbrium (Mar 29, 2013)

I'm so glad Caramel is showing some signs of improvement! I think homeopathic treatments are definitely worth a try


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## annabelle00 (Apr 4, 2013)

Very sad news  He's worsened I'm not sure why...after taking him to the vet. I changed his diet it looks like he's getting quite skinny. Even though I've confined him to his cage he keeps pushing his head through the bars, even when I'm trying to feed him or open it to pet him  His back and legs are still dragging  Should I take him out to exercise? It looks like his legs are stiff... there was a sudden car noise outside and he started moving them a bit...?

The people who do homeopathy for rabbits live across the city and the ones nearby aren't answering the phone although the first time I managed to get a hold of them they told me there would be %60-%70 chance of him recovering. Is that good? Better than nothing, I will be getting a ride there tomorrow.
Their the homeopathic vets in Castor Bay, North Shore

Learning to make a comfrey poultice atm

Not really sure what to do now as I would usually (at home atm) would not have enough time to take care of him due to my career path and the work I would have to do to get there. Also my landlord (or my family) aren't fond of rabbits being in the house (don't think the landlord knows yet and he lives just 1 house away :s )

I have also got another bunny 5 month angora, they aren't bonded so I'm not sure how that will work :s i.e. cages, spaying/neutering, bonding. Also she just today started jumping on top of her hidey box :s ...its the same thing that happened to Caramel xs

This is him when I first got him.


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## Geoff (Apr 5, 2013)

Sorry I do not have any magical suggestions for chronic neurlogic deficits in rabbits... 6 weeks is a long time to not be walking again, and the likelihood of the ability to get around returning at this point is really remote. I have no experience with putting rabbits in carts and suspect it might be fraught with complications, but many dogs have benefited from such devices to help them continue life without the use of their hind limbs. I suppose some rabbits might be able to adjust, but it would require a LOT of patience. But it would help with the pressure sores and soiling of the down limbs that plague many paralyzed pets. I have absolutely not homeopathic experience so I cannot add any suggestions there either.


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## annabelle00 (Apr 6, 2013)

Geoff said:


> Sorry I do not have any magical suggestions for chronic neurlogic deficits in rabbits... 6 weeks is a long time to not be walking again, and the likelihood of the ability to get around returning at this point is really remote. I have no experience with putting rabbits in carts and suspect it might be fraught with complications, but many dogs have benefited from such devices to help them continue life without the use of their hind limbs. I suppose some rabbits might be able to adjust, but it would require a LOT of patience. But it would help with the pressure sores and soiling of the down limbs that plague many paralyzed pets. I have absolutely not homeopathic experience so I cannot add any suggestions there either.


 
He is walking and hopping again. After some exercise his legs were moving and hoping. Turns out it was stiff legs. Its his back that isn't going up. :s 

Would it be possible to neuter a disabled bunny?


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## annabelle00 (Apr 6, 2013)

I've also read other threads by members with the same problem and one poster said damage to the lower spine could cause something similar to Caramel's


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## bigjake (Apr 6, 2013)

rabbits have very sensitive spines, and typically do not heal very well. How did the injury happen, and have you considered culling the rabbit. Quality of life should start to come into play, you said it has been 6 weeks already?? This is not a good sign.


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## minmelethuireb (Apr 6, 2013)

No offense bigjake, but I don't think anyone will appreciate your advice of "culling" their pet rabbit. It's _euthanasia_, for starters.

annabelle, I wish you good like in caring for your disabled bun.


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## bigjake (Apr 6, 2013)

culling, euthanasia,putting down, putting to sleep. Does not matter how you say it, it ends up in the same place, what DOES matter is the quality of life for that rabbit, whether you are a pet owner, breeder, into showing, Your first concern should always be your animal. As a breeder I do look at health concerns a bit differently but I do take care of my rabbits none the less.


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## minmelethuireb (Apr 6, 2013)

Culling is defined as removing inferior animals from a herd, so it's not really what pet owners do. I do think that if the animal is suffering it should be put to sleep.


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## bigjake (Apr 6, 2013)

yes that is is a nice way of putting it, and technically you are right to cull is to remove from the herd and we have many options on how to cull, ie put down, sell as pets, process, but for sake of argument when discussing an injured animal and one says to cull, it means to end its suffering. I was being very nice when I mentioned this and it is a viable option considering the circumstances ( 6 weeks, getting worse, meds not working).


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## annabelle00 (Apr 7, 2013)

The first vet I took him to has suggested letting him go. And I'm not very experienced in disabled/injured bunny care and not too sure how it's gonna turn out once I start work though after seeing all the stories and carts available for disabled bunnies, I started thinking of giving it a go or rehoming him. 
He's alert and affectionate and he enjoys the exercise he gets. (don't remember the other A)
I'm not exactly sure but I think it was when he jumped on his litter box from his hidey box or when I seperated him from the other bunny I have while putting him in a cage...
Can accupuncture heal a bone if its fractured.


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## bigjake (Apr 7, 2013)

I am very sorry that you are in this predicament, I know it is hard, I had one of my very favorite rabbits named hershey (one of my original breeders) problem is hershey liked to do backflips in his cage and I came home to a sobbing wife and a paralyzed bunny which I had to put down myself, it is never easy and one of the hardest parts of raising animals and livestock. the only problem I have with rehoming animals is you are never sure how they will be treated in their new home, many people do not realize the time and attention needed to care for pets,livestock or any animal for that matter. I am not a vet but I do not believe acupuncture would work on a broken bone, it still has to mend itself. nobody can make your decision for you, that is for you and you alone, If you really feel he is not in pain and has a chance (do not lie to yourself either, it helps neither you or the animal) then by all means try and help your pet heal. I hope I do not sound like a "bad guy" in the advice I give but I feel being realistic is the best way and many people have a tough time letting go whether it be humans or animals and being selfish in life hanging onto things that need to be let go, does not typically better the situation. best of luck for you and your bun.


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## Anaira (Apr 7, 2013)

Does he seem in pain, or distress? That is the question to ask. If he isn't, then he has a good chance at living a happy life, provided you are happy/able to give him the care of course. 

I wish I were closer to you, so I could come and have a look. Where abouts in Auckland are you? I know someone up there who had a disabled rabbit for awhile, although I don't think it was spinal. If you do decide to rehome him, message me, I know a few rabbit owners up there, including a few who are experience in dealing with disabled pets; I can check for interest, and put you in contact with anyone who's keen. If I weren't flat broke, I'd offer to take him in myself, I have a magic vet down here.


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## annabelle00 (Apr 8, 2013)

Anaira said:


> Does he seem in pain, or distress? That is the question to ask. If he isn't, then he has a good chance at living a happy life, provided you are happy/able to give him the care of course.
> 
> I wish I were closer to you, so I could come and have a look. Where abouts in Auckland are you? I know someone up there who had a disabled rabbit for awhile, although I don't think it was spinal. If you do decide to rehome him, message me, I know a few rabbit owners up there, including a few who are experience in dealing with disabled pets; I can check for interest, and put you in contact with anyone who's keen. If I weren't flat broke, I'd offer to take him in myself, I have a magic vet down here.


 
No I don't see any pain aside from not liking being stuck in his cage. 
That's good to know! Most people I know would see it as requiring euthanasia :\ I'm on the north shore
I also found this [ame]http://youtu.be/En1G3UUUmzU[/ame] so I might try this 
Been feeding him comfrey for healing his bone and chamomile, lavender and willow for inflammation although I'm hoping that's gone.
Got an appointment on Wednesday for an X ray...

We had to put down our bunny two years ago after he was attacked too...couldn't do much then. Researched things a bit more this time.:caffeine


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## tonyshuman (Apr 8, 2013)

It's really hard to make the decision to have an animal euthanized. I would say as long as the good outweighs the bad, he should be ok. Did you try to contact TreasuredFriend? I'd send her a PM as she has had a paralyzed bunny that had a good quality of life. If you can't provide the good quality of life, which will take more time and resources, then rehoming him with a rescue or having him euthanized may be the most humane option. Sometimes people keep pets around longer than is dignified or comfortable for the animal, so you really have to think about how enjoyable the life of the animal is. I think in this situation it is important to think about having him put to sleep, but definitely also think about if you can keep him healthy and happy with modified living arrangements. Just being paralyzed doesn't mean the bunny will be unhappy. In fact I have seen several very happy bunnies with wheelchairs.


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## Anaira (Apr 10, 2013)

annabelle00 said:


> No I don't see any pain aside from not liking being stuck in his cage.
> That's good to know! Most people I know would see it as requiring euthanasia :\ I'm on the north shore
> Got an appointment on Wednesday for an X ray...



Eh, I believe in always trying to do what's best for any animal. If they enjoy life, then I always try help make it as easy for them as possible. I'm actually part way through building a wheelchair for old rats, because they lose the use of their back legs in their old age. 
How did the xray go?


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## annabelle00 (Apr 11, 2013)

Had to cancel...my transport disappeared on me -.- I might look for another vet who is a bit cheaper with xrays...this one is $100 for 1 plate and $200 for 2 :s


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## Anaira (Apr 11, 2013)

Whoa, that's a bit expensive. I think. I'm sure it was cheaper for our cat, and it certainly wasn't double the price for the second one. What vet are you seeing?


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## annabelle00 (Apr 16, 2013)

I'm seeing the forrest hill vet clinic on the north shore. He just had his x ray today. It's his last veterbrae that's fractured and he's got scar tissue around the area. Also apparantly he's been born with a spine deformation near his neck. 
I've read and been told by his first vet to keep him confined so he doesn't move, but was told by a vet nurse at the clinic to give space to roam. So I did that today, it's been 8 weeks now. His injury was on the 10th Feb.

A day ago he managed to pull his feet underneath him with my help but he kicks out his back legs a lot.


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## annabelle00 (Apr 16, 2013)

The medications are not too bad $35 for a Metacam injection and some Panalog...didn't have to pay for the consult. 

He has some urine scald that was preventing him from drinking water and peeing normally too.

Gonna get some puppy pads tomorrow.


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## annabelle00 (Apr 16, 2013)

His new set up had him in carrier before


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## annabelle00 (Apr 19, 2013)

A little bit of a problem has come up with Caramel.
He has had some urine scald which I took him to the vet for 2 days ago...as I was worried after he stopped drinking and was eating little.

Would a bunny with urine scald stop(reduce) drinking? Could it be anything else as he had quite a lot of gas/water (not sure which) with a distended (maybe?) stomach...very bloated but would go down after he peed, sometimes after some fennel which I've read to be good for bloat. (although not immediately)

Before he would have a lot of pasty urine and would not pee for quite sometime...I would give him bits of orange pulp and his pee would clear after some time. 

He also had swelling on his bits probably from the urine. Which is going down after some panalog, but he's got some reddish dark brown scabbing/skin there still.
His poops atm are really small, he does make a few cecals and there is quite a bit of pee when I clean the cage. Today morning I heard him drinking water but he hasn't all day after. He rarely eats his pellets or drinks but he's fine with his hay and vegetables. After coming from the vet he had started drinking quite a lot and his poops were bigger (they had given him some fluids)

I have 3 different guesses 1. urinary tract infection 2. sludge (although I haven't seen any) 3. urine scalding

And if he's malnurished what can I given him to make sure he's healthy. 



As for the acupuncturist I can't seem to get her on the phone x(


:angelandbunny:


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## JBun (Apr 19, 2013)

If your rabbit is having thicker paste like urine, then it sounds like he has bladder sludge. He can also have a UTI as well. That is most likely the cause of the urine scald, and also the pain from it can cause him to stop eating. You will want to talk to your vet about it, as a urine test may need to be done, the bladder may need to be flushed, and antibiotics may need to be given. You may also want to ask your vet about showing you how to give sub q fluids yourself, as this may need to be a common treatment given to your rabbit. Both the small poop problems and the bladder sludge, may be in part due to your rabbit not being able to drink enough each day. Feeding him lots of leafy greens like green/red leaf lettuce, romaine, and cilantro, that aren't high in calcium or oxalates, will also help him get the extra water that he needs. And because he isn't eating pellets, he needs to be eating lots of veggies to be getting the proper nutrition. If doing sub q fluids yourself may be a problem or not possible, you could see if you can just supplement his water intake, by syringing him water orally, a few times a day(being careful so that he doesn't aspirate any of it). This site has info on bladder sludge. Just be warned, there are pictures as well.

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_diseases/Mech_diseases/Urolithiasis.htm
http://www.3bunnies.org/feeding.htm#greens
http://www.rabbit.org/care/veggies.html

You can ask your vet about getting a cream to protect the skin from the urine scald. There is also this recipe to make your own. The chloramphenicol is a prescription antibiotic(in the US) so you may need to get it from your vet. Or if the antibiotic isn't necessary, then you could make up the cream without it.

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/cream/antibiotic_cream.htm


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## Aliena (Apr 21, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your poor Caramel. If you need a rabbit savvy vet there are two very good ones in Auckland that specialize in rabbits and other exotic pets. The first is Lynfield Vets, this is where I take my rabbits (the vet they see is Kevin Turner) and the second is Mt Albert Vets (there is a vet there named Berend who is really good with rabbits). I used a "regular" vet for years before switching to Lynfield and only wish I had done it sooner because the difference in the level of experience was huge, and yet I had thought my original vet seemed quite capable. There initial consult fee is quite large and they are probably one of the pricier vets but they gave my bunny the best of care when he was constantly unwell. 

Also you could maybe look at getting some Vet Bed for his cage? It is like a fleecy fabric, sometimes called dry bed, which wicks any urine or water spills away from the surface of the fabric so the bedding stays dry. Might help with urine scald issues. I'm not sure where you buy it from, but I know vet clinics often order it in big rolls to cut up and use in the clinic so you could ring around vets and perhaps purchase a piece.

Poor wee guy, I hope he starts to feel better soon.


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## annabelle00 (Apr 22, 2013)

Aliena said:


> Sorry to hear about your poor Caramel. If you need a rabbit savvy vet there are two very good ones in Auckland that specialize in rabbits and other exotic pets. The first is Lynfield Vets, this is where I take my rabbits (the vet they see is Kevin Turner) and the second is Mt Albert Vets (there is a vet there named Berend who is really good with rabbits). I used a "regular" vet for years before switching to Lynfield and only wish I had done it sooner because the difference in the level of experience was huge, and yet I had thought my original vet seemed quite capable. There initial consult fee is quite large and they are probably one of the pricier vets but they gave my bunny the best of care when he was constantly unwell.
> 
> Also you could maybe look at getting some Vet Bed for his cage? It is like a fleecy fabric, sometimes called dry bed, which wicks any urine or water spills away from the surface of the fabric so the bedding stays dry. Might help with urine scald issues. I'm not sure where you buy it from, but I know vet clinics often order it in big rolls to cut up and use in the clinic so you could ring around vets and perhaps purchase a piece.
> 
> Poor wee guy, I hope he starts to feel better soon.


 

Hi Thanks for the info! I have actually just purchased a vet bed it should arrive some time tomorrow or the day after. And I phoned the Lynfield one today there is some one who specializes in acupuncture there. Hopefully its not too expensive.

I also purchased some baby fleece...but seems to sit on the top rather than going down onto the paper...:s wrong one?


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## Aliena (Apr 23, 2013)

I think fleece fabric does seem to keep the liquid on top rather than drawing it through to the bottom. The other thing you could try is puppy training pads, the are just flat pads like a disposable nappy that are really absorbent. You'd just have to make sure he didn't chew any, but if you put his hay on top that might be enough to stop him. They would probably be cheaper than vet bed.


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## annabelle00 (Apr 26, 2013)

Pretty good news!
Went to Lynfield this afternoon...

1. It was a hip fracture.
2. It HEALED!!!!!! and is still!
3. He can't pull himself up because his muscle need building up. Some physiotherapy for his left leg was recommended 

Those were some very clear X-rays 80 

The lordosis will probably remain but one side (left) of his hip is a bit funny.

Bill was pretty ok came to $300 in total (he picked up a pinworm today which costed a bit more for the cytology)


YAYYYYY!!!! :happyrabbit:


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## Anaira (Apr 26, 2013)

Woo hoo! That is fantastic news. I'm sure he'll be back to hopping around in no time!


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## annabelle00 (Apr 26, 2013)

Yup! Main reason he couldn't move towards is lack of muscle
His legged healed a (just a bit) skewed. 'A bit more in front' of the other...but hoping that it doesn't affect his recovery.
He still gets quite a bit of gas...I'm thinking it might be the orange pulp I gave him. Can bunnies get gas with too much vitamin C? or acidity? or sweet? 
He's still not drinking water and I forgot to ask the vet about it specifically. Wouldn't be able to afford much with that bill atm


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## JBun (Apr 26, 2013)

That's good it's the hip and not the back. Still a hard injury to have though. So is your rabbit not drinking cause it's hard for him to get to the water, or is it some other reason? Do you have a water dish for him nearby? 

The gas problems isn't good. It can cause a rabbit to stop eating. Is he eating ok on his own or are you syringe feeding? What exactly is he eating or being fed each day?


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## annabelle00 (Apr 27, 2013)

He is able to scoot around pretty ok. Even when I put water near him he won't drink. I put the veggies (lettuce...no iceburg, parsley, carrots, cilantro, cucumber, dandelion, grass, hay) in his cage and he eats them normally. His pellets he'll eat one or two occassionally and water I feed him. Oh his pellets are NRM.

His stomach got pretty distended quite a few times...I let him out to hop and fed his some fennel and mint which I read helps with gas...not much though) 
I heard Simethicone is pretty good for stuff like that. Would it treat the problem or would it just help him pass the gas.

Previously I took him to the vet for urine scald and when he wasn't drinking...they had given him fluids and a metacam and when I brought him home he peed normally and drank a lot ...before he would drink a sip or two in one day...I made up for it with some moist grass and veg.


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## annabelle00 (Apr 27, 2013)

Some symptoms

"- Significant decrease in appetite (even with her most favorite foods). (<<<just the pellets and cilantro)
- Bunny will lay in an uncomfortable or unusual manner-partially on her side to ease the pain (most likely with the front part of her body held upright while her hind legs seem relaxed); or she may not want to lay down at all instead preferring to sit upright with a very straight posture. (<<<the first one but he's got a hip injury)
- Her stomach will feel very hard, or extremely soft. (yup! and overly large)
- Her temperature will be lower than normal (below 100F) WHAT TO DO: (occassionally when its cold..winter atm but I've got a heater in my room...not sure if its 100F)


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## JBun (Apr 27, 2013)

I think the cucumbers may be causing your rabbits gas problems, and may also be causing the eating and drinking problems. A rabbit won't drink or eat as well when in pain. Eliminate the cucumbers and see if that fixes it. It's also good to have simethicone and metacam on hand for this kind of thing. They help get the gas and pain under control, which helps get a rabbit eating and drinking again. Dosage for simethicone is 1-2cc of 20mg/ml every hour for 3 hours, then 1cc every 3-8 hours as needed. Metacam dosage will be written out by your vet, but is usually 0.1-0.2mg/kg every 24 hours, syringing water needs to be done when giving metacam. But it's best to eliminate what's causing the gas, as gas problems can lead to other more serious digestive problems. If a rabbits body temp is cold you need to warm up your rabbit with warm packs(rice pack warmed up in microwave-not too hot) or warm towels, before feeding and syinging water.

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html
http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Analgesics/safe_analgesics.htm

If this solves the gas problem but not the drinking problem, you mentioned seeing some bladder sludge, in a previous post. That can cause drinking and eating issues too, as well as urine scald. Lack of fluids is a big problem for that, so you need to talk to your vet if this is still happening.


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## annabelle00 (Apr 27, 2013)

JBun said:


> I think the cucumbers may be causing your rabbits gas problems, and may also be causing the eating and drinking problems. A rabbit won't drink or eat as well when in pain. Eliminate the cucumbers and see if that fixes it. It's also good to have simethicone and metacam on hand for this kind of thing. They help get the gas and pain under control, which helps get a rabbit eating and drinking again. Dosage for simethicone is 1-2cc of 20mg/ml every hour for 3 hours, then 1cc every 3-8 hours as needed. Metacam dosage will be written out by your vet, but is usually 0.1-0.2mg/kg every 24 hours, syringing water needs to be done when giving metacam. But it's best to eliminate what's causing the gas, as gas problems can lead to other more serious digestive problems. If a rabbits body temp is cold you need to warm up your rabbit with warm packs(rice pack warmed up in microwave-not too hot) or warm towels, before feeding and syinging water.
> 
> http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html
> http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Analgesics/safe_analgesics.htm
> ...


 
They only have Infacol with Simethicone in it over here.

I gave him cucumber yesterday and he was fine. I was told by the nurse that giving him orange would be what could have caused the upset as I had given him a few pulp 4 weeks ago... his gas started later on after a week or two. I've stopped anything sweet, the cucumber is to help his water intake but I rarely give ...
One of my family members gave both my bunnies a little bamboo once without asking me and I found out it can be quite dangerous...our previous bunnies used to be fine with it...Mirabelle got over it but did pass gas for a day but he was confined then and didn't show any sign of gas...:s 

Today he had some build up after his new anti-inflam called Tolfedine.

The sludge was most likely the alfalfa pellets and his immobility as it did stop once he stopped eating those and when I took them away, I put them in again later for his bone and muscle though...at the moment his urine is a dark orange with his veg and hay diet...haven't seen any thick urine (white.

I've been reading up on herbs for rabbits to keep his system healthy. He's really thin, building muscle is going to be hard if he's not eating :s


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## Azerane (Apr 27, 2013)

annabelle00 said:


> They only have Infacol with Simethicone in it over here.



Infacol is what you need, I bought some for Bandit a little while ago, it's quite a high concentration so you only need to give 0.2ml which is pretty easy to get into a bunny, either via syringe (which it comes with), or I hid mine on a bit of parsley. It helped Bandit a lot when he was gassy, it won't fix the problem, but it will certainly help ease the gas, the pain and encourage him to eat and drink again as a result. Agree that you may need to try cutting out one or two things from his diet to try and stop the cause of the issues.


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## annabelle00 (Apr 27, 2013)

Just gave him some. Will keep the cucumbers out for a while. I don't give him oranges & tomatoes causes it to start up.
Would the treatment for this be probiotics?


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## annabelle00 (Apr 27, 2013)

One thing I find strange is that he rests his hind legs sideways and the injured leg is what he is resting on...with his front propped up...


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## Azerane (Apr 27, 2013)

Maybe the pressure helps to ease an ache? Or if it's a cool surface like tile, the coolness is soothing? Otherwise, I wouldn't have a clue.


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## JBun (Apr 27, 2013)

That is odd. It must be what feels most comfortable to him. I can't see him wanting to rest on that hip if it actually hurt for him to do it. Maybe it's the most comfortable position because the hip's weight is resting directly on the ground instead of if it was on the upside, it would be hard to keep it from hanging down and pulling on the joint.

I tried typing a better explanation of gas problems for rabbits, last night, but lost it twice. So at one in the morning, you got an abridged version. The deal with gas is that, it could be caused by the orange and other sweet foods. as too many sugars and carbs in a rabbits diet can cause an imbalance in the gut flora. It then causes a slowdown in the gut, which causes a build up of bad bacteria and gas. Whch leads to a blockage, pain, not pooping, not eating, and can be fatal. It's called GI stasis, and I've actually lost one of my rabbits to a very severe case of it. But with this kind of imbalance, the gas isn't just a come and go thing. Once the imbalance happens it continues to progres unless the diet is changed, and the sugars/carbs causing the imbalance are eliminated or severely reduced.

The other causes of gas in rabbits can certainly be some meds, and certain foods. With azerane's rabbit, if I'm remembering right, it was a cruciferous veggie that started causing all the problems. Once that veggie was stopped, the gas problem started to go away. With your rabbit having gas problems right now, it's probably best to not feed sugary things until you sort out the problem, but some rabbits just have very sensitive digestive systems and can't tolerate any sugars and carbs or it starts causing digestive upset. I have a couple rabbits like that. They can't have anything sugary(even carrots) or they start to have digestive upset and pain. One of them can't even have pellets he's so sensitive. So it's just figuring out the cause of the problem. With my rabbit, right after I fed pellets, he would start sitting and acting like he was uncomfortable, so I knew it was the pellets. For your rabbit, it may be a little harder to sort out with him also getting meds for his hip. If you think it's one of the meds, maybe you could talk to the vet to switch him to a different one, and see if that fixes the gas problem. If you thinki it's one of the veggies, you can try eliminating one and see if it makes a difference. if not, then try another. I just suggested the cucumber being the culprit, as they are known to be a gas producing veg. But with rabbits it's very important to figure out what is causing the gas, and stop it as soon as possible. Rabbits aren't like us, where when we have gas, we just put up with it until it's gone, and we are fine. Rabbits usually will stop eating and drinking from gas pain, which can then compound the problem because that then slows down the GI system. Then if it continues, it can progress to GI stasis and a blockage. So that's why it's so important to figure out the cause and eliminate it from the diet. Because of your rabbits current situation, it is a little more difficult. I know that you are having a hard time keeping weight on him, so he needs food, but you just need to avoid ones that cause upset, as those aren't going to help anything. Non dairy probiotics do help if there is a gut imbalance from too many carbs and sugars, but if the gas is being caused by a veggie that is being fed, probiotics aren't going to help with that or fix it. Simethicone will help with gas some, by reducing the size of the gas bubbles and making them less painful and easier to pass, but simethicone doesn't stop the gas from occurring. Only eliminating the food source causing the gas, will do that. Try the cucumber. If the gas continues, then try something else. You can always increase the veggie amounts of the other veggies, to make up for the one you are eliminating. 

It is going to be hard to put weight on him if you aren't feeding things with higher protein(alfalfa), fat, or carbs. Do you feel like your rabbit is sensitive to carbs in his diet. Does he start to get small poops, or start to sit like he's uncomfortable when you have fed things with carbs? I don't know if this has been mentioned, but black oil sunflower seeds are high in fat and lower in carbs than regular sunflower seeds, and may help your rabbit put on some weight. You will want to introduce them into the diet slowly(as with any new food), but the added fat may help him start gaining weight. Alfalfa can help as well, but if he is having a bladder sludge issue, then that may not be a consideration. With the bladder sludge, is he having actual toothpaste like urine, or grit in the urine, or is it just white and chalky. Cause that is normal for rabbits. They pass extra calcium in their urine. It becomes a problem for certain rabbits that are prone to bladder sludge issues cause they don't just pass the extra calcium like most rabbits. The picture in the first and second link, shows the difference between sludge and regular urine. I also included the bladder stone link, because it explains the issue with calcium.

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_diseases/generalities/Sludge.htm
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_diseases/Mech_diseases/Urolithiasis.htm
http://ontariorabbits.org/health/urinary 

If your rabbit is just having white chalky urine and not actual bladder sludge, you may want to consider including alfalfa hay in the diet. A good leafy alfalfa hay, with small stems, can really help a rabbit put on weight because of the higher protein content. Just make sure to introduce it slowly and start with small amounts, as it can cause digestive upset if introduced too quickly. But if your rabbit does have bladder sludge problems, then a lot of alfafla isn't an option. If you could find foods that are higher in protein, that will help with the weight gain. Not sure exactly what though, besides alfalfa, and pellets with added soymeal. I know that softer grasses have a higher protein content, as opposed to when they are allowed to grow longer and get more stemmy.

Your rabbit is in a difficult situation, which is going to make it hard to figure out how best to help him stay healthy. All you can do is your best to try and figure it out. I know it's not easy though.


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## annabelle00 (Apr 27, 2013)

It most likely has to do with his lack of movement I think as he was pretty healthy but thin...I put him on those pellets to put some weight on him. 

He had the simethicone....but his stomach only got big ...he ate some of his pellet soon after....and I gave him a bit of water 
it also says on the box that it forms 1 big bubble which can be passed :s....this was 3 hrs ago

I will be ordering a cart from dogTogo the vet at lynfield was also going to suggest it but wanted to try the physio first


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## Azerane (Apr 27, 2013)

Did you give him more than one dose, or only one dose? I think it's one dose every hour for the first three hours, though I don't remember what it suggested after that. I would give him another dose if you haven't already. It took two doses before Bandit started noticeably improving.


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## annabelle00 (Apr 27, 2013)

1 every three hours and then 5-8 as needed. On the second he passed a mushy poop and was fine. First he had gurgling and third it looked painful. It's not large and hard anymore just normal.
I need to get him more panalog...he doesn't pee enough due to his urine scald 

I gave him his anti inflamed (tolfedine) with a cucumber slice as the syringe had most of the powder stick inside...
He seems so much better now. Went off to sleep :> No gas.


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## annabelle00 (Apr 29, 2013)

This is what the gas usually looks like...no stones or sludge


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## annabelle00 (Apr 29, 2013)

Are there any over the counter robotics available?


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## JBun (Apr 29, 2013)

Not sure what you have available there, but here we can usually find pet probiotics in the pet store, sometimes with the cat or dog stuff. Feed stores also usually have them, and are often the best price for them. There's always online too. The human ones are ok too, as long as they are non dairy.


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## annabelle00 (May 2, 2013)

Vets say just let him eat his regular foods. So I leave him in a pen on the lawn...his poops are a regular size now and he is peeing ok...even started on his pellets a bit more.

Might give him a mineral block and see how it goes.


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## annabelle00 (Sep 14, 2013)

Thought I'd post it here too...Caramel passed away a few weeks ago...I had treated the gas sometime ago with Benebac and ACV but the problem came back again in less than 24 hrs he passed away...I didn't notice it in time  ...I didn't feel any gas but he did stop eating and pooping...It sucks cause he really did his best till the end!

The urine and not drinking was due to mobility once he started standing and hoping he started drinking too


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