# O/T Hopefully A Nightmare Coming To An End



## RaspberrySwirl (Feb 25, 2005)

Back when I wasonly 11 years old this all started. A serial killer struck in Wichita(my town is like a suburb of Wichita) and killed at least 8 times,maybe many more, through the next 12 years. As a young woman living onmy own, when Id return home late at night I was always so frightened.Id check my apartment and the phone lines. My heart would pound out ofmy chest as Id look through the closets and under thebeds.I've always slept with some lights on. 



Then he went quiet, or so we thought,but he may have been killing elsewhere. Even during that quiet time hewas in the backs of peoples minds. I went through a divorce duringthat time and had small children. I was so afraid at night to be alone.I hated to return from anywhere late at night in the dark with thekids. I didnt want them to be frightened, but I had to be aware of mysurroundings. 



He suddenly resurfaced last year. Hehas been sending packages and letters to our news stations and leavingpackages in our parks and around town. The theory among the police wasthat he stayed in Wichita to kill. He recently left a package rightoutside our little town! There was also another package left two milesnorth of there. One ofhis prior victims is from our town and now they have reopened a coldcase murder from a few years ago that they are saying might have beenhim. They interviewed two girls from the High School, one of them isone of my daughters friends who was stuck in the snow and a man helpedher out of her car and took her to her house, then disappeared. No nameor anything. The package was found right where she got stuck in thesnow. They say he has a thing for trains and we have a railway throughtown Now I found out there are two more murders that have happenedwithin a few miles of here recently that they are investigating aspossible BTK murders. 



Its keeping me awake, I put newdeadbolt locks on all the doors,I've been on all thedifferent forums that are investigating it.This is so freaky. I hateit even more now with my husband working nights. Sometimes the kids andI are so scared. We watch each other go feed the dog at night, we checkon each other when we take out the trash or start the cars. Im lockingthe doors during the day. Everyone checks their phone lines when theycome home because hes always cut phone lines before he kills hisvictim.ITS SCARY!!!I've been so upset and stressed out. 



Now finally, today we have a veryoptimistic breakthrough. The FBI, Americas Most Wanted, and the localPolice have taken someone in for questioning. They have said they are90% sure they have the guy. They are scheduled to make an announcementtomorrow morning at 10:00. They are supposedly waiting on DNA results.From whatI've been able to find out behind the scenes, thisguy lived FOUR BLOCKS FROM MY MOM! And only six blocks from my sister.She actually got into an argument with him last summer over somecompliance issues (he is supposedly a compliance officer for the city)My Dad walked by his house every day for his morning walk. This iswhere I grew up! It creeps me out so bad. He is the president of hischurch, a member of the police department, a long time member of theneighborhood, a college graduate.What the hell has the world cometo?



When you have time go look at this. The story was on Americas Most Wanted-



AMERICAS MOST WANTED-
http://www.amw.com/fugitives/brief.cfm?id=26563 



Newspaper Link that has all kinds ofstuff aboutit-http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/special_packages/btk/



RaspberrySwirl


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## *nepo* (Feb 25, 2005)

I hope that they have them.I'd be scared to death tooif I was in your place. Good thingnothing has happened to you guys.


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## Bo B Bunny (Feb 25, 2005)

I heard about this tonight on the news. Thank goodness is all I can say!

On a bit O/T: Adam Walsh should never have died the way hedid. No child or parent should have to go through suchthings...... 

John Walsh has taken the worst tragedy I think any parent could face, and made something positive come of it.... 

I always remind people of Adam when AMW is mentioned, because some people don't even know who John is.


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## BunnyMommy (Feb 25, 2005)

Oh, wooooowwww, Raspberry!!! ...:shock:... I haven't had a chance to follow the news lately,but when I signed on to the computer just now I saw some reference tothe BTK killer not knowing that this was a story even closer to homethan I knew. 

Oh, man, to have to go through this kind of sustained fear ... I'm sosorry for you all but thankful God has kept you safe. 

You're right ... Just _what_ kind of world are we coming to?


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## BunnyMommy (Feb 25, 2005)

Just went back and read through some of the linksand MSNBC's account of the events and I'm flabbergasted! Ihad no idea that this was going on. I can't imagine the fearthat you guys must have been going through, Raspberry, and to thinkthat one of your daughter's friends might have had contact with thisevil person! Oh, mercy! She's so lucky to be alive!

I just don't know what else to say ... this is so sobering.


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## Carolyn (Feb 25, 2005)

How about the website crashing that had his picture posted on it, Raspberry?

I'm so glad you got that. You had it hours ago. You're like a Pit Bull.

Can't wait for tomorrow morning. They're certainly calling Out the Troops for the announcement, ey?

It's lookin Good, Honey! It's lookin Really Good.  

Loved how John Walsh said it was his arrogance and his need forattention that got him caught. The other night, they were calling him agenius on Larry King Live. It was driving me crazy. 

This makes me relive the days of Son of Sam. 

-Carolyn


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## dajeti2 (Feb 25, 2005)

What has the world come to indeed. I am so sorryyou and everyone else had to live with that kind of dailyfear-Heartbreaking. I thank God for keeping you al safe and sound. Ipray they have the guy and all can finally breath a sigh of relief. Ido not yet have the cable connected so if at possible, please keep usupdated.

Tina


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## Cinnabun (Feb 26, 2005)

Oh my gosh! that is sooo scary! i got scared justreading it! i dont know how you could have stayed there! i would havebeen out right when it started to happen! just goes to show Adults arestronger than Teenagers!  Glad that you and your family are okay! andi hope that is the guy that they have!


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## Carolyn (Feb 26, 2005)

Some of our members have lost their homes; at least one, that we knowof, is dealing with the death of a soulmate; some don't know if they'lllive through the next two weeks; another is terrorized by a serialkiller - as is her family; some have brothers and husbands fighting inthe war or soon to return to it. 

These people put themselves and their troubles aside for us and escapeto this forum. They spread sunlight, while they're living our Nightmare.

They truly are Angels among us.


-Carolyn


P.S. We're also 1,000+ members strong, so please, do be careful.


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## BunnyMommy (Feb 26, 2005)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> These people put themselves and their troubles aside for us and escapeto this forum. They spread sunlight, while their living our Nightmare.
> 
> 
> They truly are Angels among us.
> ...




Carolyn, funny you should mention this. I was thinking the_exact same thing_. So many people who come here havesuch _serious_ life issues that's it's unbelievable. Yetthey come here and share the best of themselves with us and try tospread a little joy and light to others. 

It's amazing, it's just amazing ... Know all that you are so much appreciated.


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## BunnyMommy (Feb 26, 2005)

And on top of that (I'm sorry, I just have to sayit) they don't look for any kind of sympathy or anything.They keep their challenges to themselves for the most part and the onlyway that we usually found out about their circumstances is by"accident". 

It really and truly is amazing.


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## Carolyn (Feb 26, 2005)

BunnyMommy wrote:


> And on top of that (I'm sorry, I just have to say it) they don'tlook for any kind of sympathy or anything.? They keep their challengesto themselves for the most part and the only way that we usually foundout about their circumstances is by "accident".?
> 
> It really and truly is amazing.?




Yes, BunnyMommy.

Exactly.

I call them Angels, Angel.

Love,
-Carolyn


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## mygrl2k3 (Feb 26, 2005)

I think i remember hearing about that years ago..I am a big fan of america's most wanted and unsolvedmystries. This made me tear up though. Sometimes even thoughthe stories arent real it dont seem real.I hope they really got the guy and everyone can try and relax now. 

Cristy


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## Carolyn (Feb 26, 2005)

He's SUCH a PUNK!

Show us his face, Raspberry. It's 90% sure, and one DNA test came back positive, they were just waiting for the second. 

With all the broo-ha-ha they're getting ready for, you KNOW this is the Loser!

-Carolyn


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## RaspberrySwirl (Feb 26, 2005)

I was on the forumsand google all day. I had his age, name, occupation, address, parentsaddress, and his photo before any of it has hit the news!This guy has had it! Carolyn was right, I was being abulldog today. I got that stuff before the Larry King show and CNN cameon tonight. After that all the web sites and stuff started crashing.Tomorrow after 10:00 all my info will be released to the whole world,but for tonight I'm just sitting here staring at it....thinking "what amonster"

Raspberry


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## Cinnabun (Feb 26, 2005)

yeah he is a monster.. i dont know how someonecould kill someone eles.. just at my school this one guy was like "ihave no problems killing other people" after that i have been keepingmy distance from him, and just kinda liek not looking at him.. imscared of him! so im glad this might be the guy!


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## RaspberrySwirl (Feb 26, 2005)

Let me be clear,this is information that I havegathered from other sourcesthat say it is this man who has been taken in for questioning in theBTK strangler case-

This is supposed to be 90% certain, just waiting on DNA results to confirmation. 
Dennis Rader, Park City complianceofficer, president of Christ Lutheran Church, 59 years old, married,lived in same place6200 block of Independence St.in Park City for 14 year or more, just down the block from unsolvedmurder of Marie Hedge in 1985, 1979 graduate of WSU with degree inadministration in justice.


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## Meganc731 (Feb 26, 2005)

Raspberry, 

I can't even begin to imagine how you feel. Be sure to let us know assoon as they know that they have the right guy. This would be such amiracle. 

Hugs,

Megan


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## Carolyn (Feb 26, 2005)

The first DNA test proved Positive.

This guy was a Pastor - president of the Christ Luthern Church

AND

He was a Compliance Officer.

* * * * *

It makes you wonder: Who can you trust?

-Carolyn


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## BunnyMommy (Feb 26, 2005)

I just really don't know what to say ...


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## m.e. (Feb 26, 2005)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> This guy was a Pastor - president of the Christ Luthern Church


That part really got to me, because there was obviously something*very* wrong with his Christian relationships. I've beenaround the church and its leadership...well, forever  My dad's apastor and I'veheard quite a few horror stories. It seems tome that this man didn't have any Christian fellowship. No one to benosy, to keep him from stumbling, to keep him accountable. Especiallywith his position, I am *stunned* he had no mentor or anyone tofulfill this role. Itsso very sad for all the people withinhis church that will be left wounded because of this .

Raspberry -I can't imagine what living in that kind of fearwould be like, and I'm so relieved for you that this is all over now


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## Carolyn (Feb 26, 2005)

FOR THE RECORD:

I am not picking on the Christ Luthern Church OR its pastors Or its Beliefs.

I'm merely stating a fact of this Person of Suspect's past history.

-Carolyn


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## m.e. (Feb 26, 2005)

Oh no, Carolyn, to clarify for myself I didn't think you were 

I just wanted to say that fact really bothered me, because its the signof a rather unhealthy church, IMHO. And I've seen so many churchesshattered by their pastor's actions that it hits pretty close to home.

Obviously, thisman is seriously messed up. But in hisposition,in a _good _and _healthy_ situation, hewould have been found out *a* *long time ago*. Someone closeto him should have known him well enough to find out and tell theauthorities.

That's what bothers me. No one could see what was really going on...


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## Carolyn (Feb 26, 2005)

I'm glad you clarified, m.e., because I Never meant any disrespect to you, yours, or Any religion at all.

This devil would Blind, Torture, and Kill his victims. 


-Carolyn


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## Meganc731 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> This devil would Blind, Torture, and Kill his victims.
> 
> 
> -Carolyn




Did he blind or bind??? 

Megan


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## BunnyMommy (Feb 26, 2005)

"bind"

Article excerpt:

The BTK  the initials of the killers self-coined nickname stand forBind, Torture, Kill  recently mailed at least three packagescontaining jewelry that the killer indicated was taken from victims.

Link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6988048/


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## pamnock (Feb 26, 2005)

I just read this point -- what a horrible,horrible tragedy. I can only imagine the stress this has puton you and your family knowing this monster was so close to youRasp. It's so hard to trust again, when you see somethinglike this happening.

Pam


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## Flopsy (Feb 26, 2005)

I've heard about this on America's Most Wanted.The first time I watched it, about a year ago, my parents were watchinga moive one the other side of the house with my sister. It freaked meout soo bad. I turned of the t.v. and ran to the other side of thehouse as fast as I could.... I think that was the scariest case I'veever seen on AMW. Now, I don't live anywhere near you, but I stillceheck my bed and closet before I go to bed. 

I hope this brings you and the rest of your town closure.

-Ashley


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## RaspberrySwirl (Feb 26, 2005)

The official pressmeeting is taking place in 30 minutes you all. That's 10:00 my time.They are nearly 100% sure it's him! Every dignitary around is here.CNN, FOX every major news channel is here. Turn to CNN to watch and youwill see what they say. 

They just said he was a boyscout leader too! :X

Raspberry


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## RaspberrySwirl (Feb 26, 2005)

Here's another picture of him


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## Buck Jones (Feb 26, 2005)

Sleep easier, my friend. The Missus was well aware of him from the press and Most Wanted.

Buck


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## BunnyMommy (Feb 26, 2005)

I've already packed all my TVs and sent them to storage until I can get in my new place.

I just pulled up CNN radio online and I'm waiting to hear an update.


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## BunnyMommy (Feb 26, 2005)

*RaspberrySwirl wrote: *


> Here's another picture of him




What a PIG ... :X Pure evil.


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## Cinnabun (Feb 26, 2005)

im watching FOX right now... he does look like a pig/monster!

do you guys have the death Penlty? or will he get shipped to some place that will?

YAY!! ::claps::  glad you guys got him! 

i'd sure like to know why people kill other people! :? that is what confuses me about Killers! :X


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## Carolyn (Feb 26, 2005)

In my opinion, the death penalty is too easy for this demon.

So glad the case is closed. (And thanks Megan and BunnyMommy for noting it was bind, not blind.) 

(I can't believe the news of the BTK killer broke here on the RabbitsOnly forum before CNN even has released his picture or name.) 

As Buck says, 'You never know where the day will go."

Peace,
-Carolyn


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## m.e. (Feb 26, 2005)

I'm personally opposed to the death penalty.

But I have no problem with someone living out their life in a 5x8 box. To me, that is a punishment worse than death.


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## Cinnabun (Feb 26, 2005)

i wasnt able to watch the whole thing.. i heard about the penatly... but did they say what they would do with him?


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## NightPoet00 (Feb 26, 2005)

Wow how scary! I'm glad it's coming to an end.


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## RaspberrySwirl (Feb 26, 2005)

To sum it up...Allthe info I gave was correct. I gotta go for awhile but No DeathPenalty! During the times the crimes were commit ed we had no deathpenalty in Kansas. :X

Raspberry


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## Cinnabun (Feb 26, 2005)

so they are just gonna let him rot in jail?? well that doesnt sound too bad, for what he did to other people and their family!


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## Carolyn (Feb 26, 2005)

RaspberrySwirl wrote:


> To sum it up...All the info I gavewas correct. I gotta go for awhile but No Death Penalty! During thetimes the crimes were commit ed we had no death penalty in Kansas.:X
> 
> Raspberry





Remember what the prisoners did to Dahmer? 

-Carolyn


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## Meganc731 (Feb 26, 2005)

*BunnyMommy wrote: *


> "bind"




Thanks, I thought that's what I read, but I wasn't sure if it was atypo, and I thought how much horrible it would have been if he'dblinded them.


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## Bramble Briar86 (Feb 26, 2005)

What does the O/T mean at the beginning of the thread's title?

ellie


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## Meganc731 (Feb 26, 2005)

Off Topic meaning it has nothing to do with rabbits.



Megan


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## RaspberrySwirl (Feb 26, 2005)

I've been sittinghere watching all the coverage from our local stations. They have allthis information that they are bombarding us with now.Nowthey can release itwithout fear of repercussionssince his name has been officially released. It just sends shivers upmy spine as it all sinks in. 

He ate on a regular basis at therestaurant that my daughter is a waitress at, right across the streetfrom his house. He shopped at the grocery store where we domuch or our grocery shopping and where our pharmacy is. He IS the manwho my sister was in several confrontations with last summer. Myhusband hasn't had time to sit down and watch yet, but we think thisman is the one who came to my husband's job sites and is in charge ofsigning off on all the permits and inspections on my husbandsconcrete work in Park City. You all have seen my references lately toHome Depot...that's where they got some of the important surveillancefootage that helped catch him. 

It's just so personal. I'm trying to calmdown and realize it's over, but it's such a feeling of violation. Thefear of being murdered is over, but the feeling of being violated andin the midst of it all....like being the victim of a stalker, peepingtom...I don't know how to explain it, it just gives you that "throw upin your mouth" feeling. Sorry to drag on and on, but I just feel sick.


I've been sharing all of this fear withCarolyn for weeks. I just didn't want to bring it to the forum. Nowthat the whole world knows about it, I feel I can let it out.


Raspberry


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## bunnylover78642 (Feb 26, 2005)

I lived there 3 yrs. ago. We moved, but I neverheard anything about this, I guess my mom was keeping it from me sinceI was only11.


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## Cinnabun (Feb 26, 2005)

you can share anything with us! its better to letit out then let it stay in... have you seen the movie Video Voyage onLifetime?? they way you were discribing how you felt i kept on goingback to that movie... and how the mom, slept in the closet becausethere was a cam, in her and her husband bedroom.. when they took it outis when she started to sleep in the closest.. im not trying to get youmore scared or anything.. its just how you were discribing everythingthat made me think of that movie...

but i am glad that they did get him before he did more damage! i wastalking to my dad about it, and my dad was thinking that he wanted toget cought by all the clues he was leaving behind


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## Carolyn (Feb 26, 2005)

We've been talking about this for more than"weeks", Raspberry. I couldn't believe how you could put yourself asideand come on here and act as if you were throwing daisies in a field -having a ball in life with no worries at all. 

* * * * *

It just goes to show you, you never know who you're dealing with. 

-Carolyn


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## Cinnabun (Feb 26, 2005)

Carolyn wrote:


> It just goes to show you, you never know who you're dealing with.
> 
> -Carolyn



that is soo true! i have had a threat of a guy online saying he wasgonna find out where i live and come and rape me and then kill me..
and another is a guy at my school.. telling me that he wants to killme, just for no reason.. he picks on everyone, i dont even talk to him..

but Carolyn that is soooooooo very true!


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## Carolyn (Feb 26, 2005)

P.S. You and your family and community now battlepost traumatic stress which has been inflicted on you for all theseyears. One of the best ways of getting through it is talking about it. 

You have been holding your breath and your fear for a long time, Raspberry Swirl. Talk all you want about it to release it.


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## dajeti2 (Feb 26, 2005)

Dear Raspberry, I was stalked and brutalized forover a year. It was horrendous. I can not even begin to comprehend howyou have dealt with such a high and constant level of fear for so long.You my dear are a rock and an inspiration. I cried so hard for you. Ihope that in time you are able to feel a sense of peace and security.Now the healing can begin. Please don't hold it in. I know it's noteasy to talk about it but talking really does help. I'm here if everyou need an ear.

Tina


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## Pet_Bunny (Feb 26, 2005)

We support you Raspberry.

And we thank-you Carolyn, for everything you've done for us.


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## RaspberrySwirl (Feb 26, 2005)

There are severaltheories being bounced around in the amateur investigator communities,which I have become rather involved in lately...:? One ofwhich is there were two murders in Park City Delores Davis and MarieHedge that were listed as unsolved. Many people kept implying they weresimilar to BTK killings but the cops kept emphatically denying thatthey were in fact his work. 

BTK is known for reveling in his glory. He wants people to know he didwhat he did. He brags about it and sends the cops proof of hisinvolvement in those killings. His "trophies". 

The theory I'm interested in is that the cops kept denying hisinvolvement in those last two murders to piss him off. He wanted thecredit for them so he kept sending them those packages with proof thathe did them so that he would get the glory. They were denying him hisglory in public even though they had the proof. He probably became moreand more agitated and gave up more and more evidence which led to thebig breaks in the case that they needed to get him. 

It was only this morning that they announced that he did indeed killDavis and Hedges. So, they have known but didn't choose to disclose ituntil after they had him captured. 

Therefore, I don't know that he necessarily wanted to be captured asmuch as he wanted credit for his work. His greed drove him mad withdesperation to get the attention.

Just my amateur opinion! 

Raspberry


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## RaspberrySwirl (Feb 26, 2005)

*dajeti2 wrote:*


> .... I cried so hard for you. I hope that in timeyou are able to feel a sense of peace and security...... Now thehealing can begin.......I'm here if ever you need an ear.
> 
> Tina


Thankyou!


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## Carolyn (Feb 26, 2005)

Raspberry,

Word on the street is that his daughter turned him in, what are you hearing about that?

It's sick that there are trolls on the amw board. I thought it was sickwhen they'd troll a rabbit board, but to do that to victims and theirfamilies? There are some disturbed people in this world! :X

-Carolyn


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## Fergi (Feb 26, 2005)

Raspberry, I am so glad to hear they caught thisman! I watched the show on CNN and couldn't believe that I saw his faceand heard his name before it was even on TV! My mom has worked for theDepartment of Corrections for the past 17 years as a unit manager. Atone time my mom wanted me to change my last name because a pastviolator was being put on parole and he had a grudge against my mom.

It sure is a bummer to always have to watch your back and think in sucha defensive mode but in todays society we have to be aware to survive.There are way to many predators out there now, always searching for avictim.

Glad that there is one less predator on the streets tonight and maybe,just maybe, a future criminal will think twice knowing that you neverget away with murder.

Fergi's mom


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## Dwarf_Angel04 (Feb 26, 2005)

I can only imagine how the community feels!

A year ago a man was murder in his own house and buried on his propertyby his children and one of their friends. This happened about 5 milesfrom my house and everyone was outraged over that! The children andfriends are now in jail. It happened just outside our bigtown for the county of10,000 people. 
A few months ago one of my neighbors came up missing. It was a monthtill they found his body. My community of 90 people and the surroundingcountry side were at in a stage of shock! The murder didn't acutallyhappen in my town but in a city and hour from here. Even though he wasonly from this town the community was outraged! This was just a smallmurder case compared to the BTK! 
I know this has hardly anything to do with the topic but I feel for thefamilies of the victums. I had a cousin that was killed while ridinghis bike 2 years ago. It feels like a murder except we knew who did it.

Stick together as a community and ya'll will get through it. Don't beafriad to express your thoughts and feelings as its the best theropy!


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## RaspberrySwirl (Feb 26, 2005)

I was just tellingone of our members that part of the problem with catching him was thatall along the profilers thought that he was a law enforcement officerof some kind. That's why they thought it took so long to catch him. Ifit was true, which in a way it turned out to be, he had all the insideinformation all along. Part of the problem was that people were afraidto turn in clues because what if he was on the task force or something?What if he was one of them that had access to thehotlineinformation and such? People were afraid to call in tosomeextent, that they might be identified and be killed. 

Raspberry

PS- Ihaven't been on the forumstoday so I hadn't heard anything about the sister turning him in. I'llhave to check that out when I have time.


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## Carolyn (Feb 26, 2005)

Raspberry,

I remember a couple of weeks ago, we were chatting about how he musthave some type of uniform because he was getting into these people'shouses without any trouble at all. He certainly had all the uniformsand they were authentic. 

Supposedly the rumor is that his daughter went into the barracks a fewdays ago and gave her DNA. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of thingsthat are said, but we won't be able to tell what's real and what's beencreated through the rumor mill. Supposedly, a surveillance cameracaught him dropping off a box at a Home Depot. 

Your daughter, father, sister and husband must be pretty shaken upknowing that he was among them. As you said before, he's someone you'dsee in passing at the post office, grocery store, eating at the samerestaurant that you and yours would go to or work at. 

They are looking into his computer and searching for evidence of his posting on message boards such as AMW or CatchBTK, etc. 

Even though this forum has the feeling of family, I remain cognizant ofthe fact that there are over 1,000 members. As much as some like tothink we're like family, we're not, and have to keep that in the frontof our minds. Some might think I'm a bit overprotective, but rabbitforum or not, one must remain reserved and very careful when you are onany internet message board or chatroom. Here's proof positive that younever know who you're dealing with. How do you know a child molestor,rapist, or robber, etc. isn't reading and paying attention? 

People say don't let one bad apple ruin the bunch, but the bottom lineis - put one bad apple in with a bunch and see what happens. 
I'm so glad that the people of Kansas can now start the healingprocess. I also wonder if we're going to hear that he was, in fact,murdering throughout the time they think he was laying low. 

-Carolyn


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## DaisyNBuster (Feb 26, 2005)

Raspberry.

I am just catching this post now. I knew you had the worry about thismonster living near your town, but I never knew it was affecting yourlife so much.

I am so pleased for you and the rest of your area that he has been found and the nightmare is beginning to be over. 

I just can't imagine what it must have been like for you. I am veryprotective of my daughters and my sisters. I always make sure that ifmysisters come tovisit me I always walk them hom,no matter what time.To learn that this guy ate at therestaurant that your daughter worked must have been so scary. He hadbeen lurking around near your family all this time....It isawful.I bet you was on pins all day until you knew yourfamily was safe at home.

This man has tortured so many people, even people like yourself who haslived in fear of him. I just hope that justice will prevail and he getsall that he deserves.


Vickie


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## Elf Mommy (Feb 26, 2005)

I went right to the TV and turned on CNN HeadlineNews (and Fox News--switched back and forth) so I could watch thereport. How incredibly horrifying that you had to go through all ofthat. I sincerely hope this man receives just consequences for thehorror he has put your town through.


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## Bramble Briar86 (Feb 26, 2005)

i JUST watched AMW and the first story was aboutthe BTK Killer. it's amazing what freaks will do. i can't believe heeven taunted the police! i can't imagine what you're goingthrough:shock:! it's a good thing he wasn't waiting at your house foryou like one of the people he was after. Luckily, the person he wasafter, he was waiting at their house to get home, had an apointment anddidn't make it home that night.

ellie


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## Meganc731 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> Even though this forum has the feeling of family, I remain cognizant ofthe fact that there are over 1,000 members. As much as some like tothink we're like family, we're not, and have to keep that in the frontof our minds. Some might think I'm a bit overprotective, but rabbitforum or not, one must remain reserved and very careful when you are onany internet message board or chatroom. Here's proof positive that younever know who you're dealing with. How do you know a child molestor,rapist, or robber, etc. isn't reading and paying attention?


Thank you for being so careful about safety issues. I am a memberofa parrot board and everyone including the moderator wassharing their HOME ADDRESSES!!!! I got so worried, I didn't want to bethe party pooper, but finally I spoke up and I believe they deleted allpersonal information. Aside from the obvious personal danger that theyall realized, also most of them have thousands and thousands of dollarsworth of birds and it's not uncommon for them to be stollen. Nowsomeone lurking would have thier home address, know their birds andwhat their birds are like, and could target them. Even posting a phonenumber is very dangerous, it's simple to look up an address throughsomeone's phone number. 

Thank you for taking internet safety seriously.

Megan


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## Carolyn (Feb 27, 2005)

Certainly understand why you were uncomfortable, and I'm glad you said something.

It's easy to get relaxed, but you always do have to keep your guard up.Jealousy, itself, can cause people to do things they wouldn't normallydo.

Consider the 'guests' that sign in. You don't know who they are.They're not registered here, but they can lurk and we can't track themunless they become members or unless the police have their machines andcheck where they've gone.

You never know who's reading. 1,000+ members is a lot of people comingand going. I'd say the majority of them are good people, but as I saidabout the bad apples, all it takes is one to change everything.

I don't mean to scare people, but it's something that I think aboutwhen people say 'we're family' here. Compared to other forums, yes, butstill and all, it's the internet and hackers and some people use it tocarry out crimes.

* * * * *

Raspberry,

I'm starting to hear more about the daughter having given her DNA prior to the arrest. Are you hearing that?

-Carolyn


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## RaspberrySwirl (Feb 27, 2005)

Yes, I've heardabout it being a daughter of a niece. But no details yet. Check thisout...I finally got to talk at length about all this with my husbandtonight. He's been working since all of this broke. He worked with thisguy!!!! :shock:My husband is a concrete contractor and he didthe foundation of a building thatBTK was overseeing theproject of. My husband worked with him for several weeks on it! I waspretty sure he had contact with him through the inspections and permitsbut I have the heebie jeebies knowing he worked with him daily for thatperiod of time....

Of course my husband came off withsomething along the lines of "That fat, bald, S.O.B., I would havethrown him down and kicked his a$$ in a heartbeat!" Which he probablywould. (my honey is a pretty ripped guy for an old geezer :dude: ) ButI did remind him that a serial killer might have a bit of a edge on himwith the element of surprise...:?

Guys, this just gets freakier by the minute!!!!

Raspberry


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## BunnyMommy (Feb 27, 2005)

:shock::shock::shock:


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## Carolyn (Feb 27, 2005)

It really does get freakier by the minute. Have afeeling it's going to continue on like this for a bit. It'sunbelieveable how close your family members were to this serial killer.

You had a hunch for a while that he was closer to you than you were comfortable with. A lot can be said for intuition.

I can't imagine that it's sunken in for you yet that this is no longersomething you have to worry about. It must feel like a dream that theycaught him. 

I recall you telling me how you and your kids would spot each otherwhen one of you went outside at night with the dog, etc. What a cocoonhe had you all living in.

-Carolyn


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## BunnyMommy (Feb 27, 2005)

Raspberry, I still can't believe that you've beencarrying this fear around all the while and yet still was able to comehere and spread sunshine and not let on that anything waswrong. 

Every time I come back to this thread I get goosebumps. Thenwhen I read that the lives of you and your family intersected with thatof this monster's on several occasions my blood runs cold. 

I just want to scoop you all up and hug you tight ...


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## BunnyMommy (Feb 27, 2005)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> I recall you telling me how you and your kids would spot each otherwhen one of you went outside at night with the dog, etc. What a cocoonhe had you all living in.
> 
> -Carolyn




And even in that there was really no security as we know that he hasbeen able in the past to somehow subdue a whole family. 

This is truly a sobering reality.


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## Carolyn (Feb 27, 2005)

BunnyMommy wrote:


> Raspberry, I still can't believe that you've been carrying thisfear around all the while and yet still was able to come here andspread sunshine and not let on that anything was wrong.?




It's not the only heavy burden this woman carries. I don't know how shedoes it. I really am in awe of her strength, love, and intelligence.

-Carolyn


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## BunnyMommy (Feb 27, 2005)

Yes, Carolyn, I know, I know!!! And she still manages to spread light and joy wherever she goes. 

Raspberry is a real jewel, she really is.


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## ariel (Feb 27, 2005)

Raspberry it's 9.45pm sunday night here, I started to read this thread and couldn't believe what I was reading.

I went and turned on the pay tv and switched to Fox "The Big Story" wason, I assumed it was a programme that is on eaxch day or week, anywaythere it all was on my TV screen.

Raspberry I am truly in awe of you, here you are fearing for yours andyour families lives and yet here you are in here still spreadinghappiness and sharing in the fun etc here.

I had no inkling what so ever that this was going on around you, Icannot even begin to imagine the fear you all would of went through inyour home and the town in which you live.

I wish you peaceful and restful nights now knowing this man is in custody.

If you feel the need to talk things through etc then do so, with yourneighbours, your family and friends and here if you like. There will belots of people in your community wanting to talk things through etc andI know it helps sometimes to vent etc. 

It never ceases to amaze me just how some people live.

We all have this thing that "oh that'd never happen here" and wellsometimes it does and unfortunately for you it did happen where youare. I know you are already grateful for your family and friends butyou may find people within your town etc will appreciate each other alittle more after such a horrible thing.

My thoughts are with you and your family and your town.


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## RebeccaUK (Feb 27, 2005)

Hi Raspberry.

The news has hit the UK this morning - they were saying on the BritishRadio stations that a suspected serialkiller from Kansas hasbeen caught but they didn't release the details of him.

I hope this whole nightmare comes to a close very soon.


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## DaisyNBuster (Feb 27, 2005)

*RebeccaUK wrote: *


> Hi Raspberry.
> 
> The news has hit the UK this morning - they were saying on the BritishRadio stations that a suspected serialkiller from Kansas hasbeen caught but they didn't release the details of him.
> 
> I hope this whole nightmare comes to a close very soon.



Thats right, it seems like your news is making our news. It just shows the severity of what has been happening.

This is what the BBC had to say about it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3575847.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4301517.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4301023.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4301517.stm

Disgraceful,this is one sickman.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4301517.stm

Vickie


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## RaspberrySwirl (Feb 27, 2005)

Thank you, all of you, for your love and support. It means so much to me. 

It is always my intent to come herewithout dragging my garbage along with me, for what kind of "minivacation" would this place be if I had to deal with my at home troubleshere too as well? That is why I rarely mention many of the things thatCarolyn and BunnyMommy elude to....I just wanted to clarifythat.

I appreciate all the support and Iimagine on this particular subject I will continue to vent for awhile!:X

Raspberry


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## DaisyNBuster (Feb 27, 2005)

Raspberry I can understand you wanting to come here to get away from it all.

All I can add is that we will *ALWAYS *be here for you, should you need us.

Vickie


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## Flopsy (Feb 27, 2005)

I thank god that this horrible nightmare isfinally almost over for for. You are truly a wonderful person and youdon't deserve this.... no one deserves this tourture. Free hugs

-ashley


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## carrots (Feb 27, 2005)

What a horrible, vile man! England has manykillers over the years too but nothing like some of the Americanscaptured (no offense to general, normal American people intended), weget programs on our main TV stations such as ITV that go on for hoursabout all the american and english murders as well as else where. Themain high profile ones over here were yorkshire ripper and Ian Huntleyas well as many other well known people. Yesturday a man walked out ofa mental institute (signed himself out) walked to the nearest park(popular one in London) and stabbed an inoccent man, the guywashearing voices in his head to kill, so why didn't theinstitute take him in?Putting these programs on frightens youabout your and other countries. What is the world comming to? If onlywe could all live our lives in peace but there are certain people whomake it hard for us. :X


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## carrots (Feb 27, 2005)

p.s, go about your life and live it the way youwant to, don't let other people scare you, do be vidulant but don't letthem change your life to the extend that you are terified of who isround the corner.


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## LuvaBun (Feb 27, 2005)

I am pretty slow at catching up on this thread,but I had no idea that you were living in this kind of fear, Raspberry.I watched FOX News last night, and I can't believe the evil of thisman. I think it is all the more scary that he lived a 'normal' life andthat your family had contact with him. It must be a HUGE relief to youto finally have this man under lock and key. After all the years ofworry you have had, please feel free to 'vent' anytime. Hugs to you andyour family. - Jan


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## Bo B Bunny (Feb 27, 2005)

I haven't read all the comments here today, butI've heard this guy is a CubScout Leader or something. Why doall the creeps end up there? I know you find creeps around kids butman! I was a CubScout (den mom) and it's an embarassment to be one dueto all of the weirdos. I actually pulled my son out becauseof some of that.

Carolyn, I understood/stand you mean the nutjob and not the church itself. I'm Catholic, I'm used to nutty clergy. 

Raspberry, I am thankful this guy has been caught. It's veryscary knowing someone like that is out there. We had asituation here just a few miles from me where a bunch of bones werefound on a property. Then, it was found to be a serialmurderer. We were frightened until they finally found himdead.

We also had a kid down the road commit a murder 2 years ago and afriend's son was killed last year at this time..... those are randomtho..... serial killers are freakin scary! 

This guy will fry I hope.


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## Carolyn (Feb 27, 2005)

I'm sorry. I was wrong about him being a pastor. 

* * * *

BTK was a:

Father of two children
Husband
Soldier in the Army
Dog Catcher
Compliance Officer
Cub Scout Leader
President of the Christ Luthern Church
Installed Security Alarms
Studied criminal justice
and a serial killer that bound, tortured and killed at least ten people that we know of to date.

* * * * *


You really don't know who you're dealing with. 

-Carolyn


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## Bramble Briar86 (Feb 27, 2005)

it makes you wonder who's _actually _living down the street

Ellie


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## Carolyn (Feb 27, 2005)

It sure does, Ellie.

I can't imagine how the people of Kansas felt last night as they wentto bed knowing that he was finally in a cage where he belongs.

-Carolyn


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## Bo B Bunny (Feb 27, 2005)

Exactly. It freaked us out when we hadthat freak down the road. He actually buried some of thebones on the edge of a good friend's property. :shock:


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## Bramble Briar86 (Feb 27, 2005)

*Bo B Bunny wrote:*


> Exactly. It freaked us out when we had that freakdown the road. He actually buried some of the bones on theedge of a good friend's property. :shock:


that wouldbe soscary!



(ilove smileycentral!)


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## Meganc731 (Feb 27, 2005)

On the topic of safety, is everyone aware thatsex offenders are required by law to register their home address andplace of employmentif they worksomeplace in closeproximity to children? There will be a website run for your area whereyou can look up this information. 

We were curious about my cousin's baby's father, and while we didn'tfind anything on him, we found out that my aunt has a registeredoffender that lives two houses down. He has befriended her 8 year oldson, and has become quite close to another young boy that lives on thestreet, so we were very lucky to be aware of that resource. 

Be alert and besafe!

Megan


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## Carolyn (Feb 27, 2005)

To build a bit on Meganc's post: You can do a search in the net of your's state's sex offender registry. 

For example, I can type in a search: Connecticut Sex Offenders. Itgives me a list of websites, the first one is the ConnecticutDepartment of Public Safety and Sex Offender Registry. Go into that,and there's photos of the offenders and where they live. 

Thanks for pointing that out, Meganc. 

-Carolyn


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## RaspberrySwirl (Feb 28, 2005)

Well, I justwatched the 10:00 local news and they are confirming that he hasadmitted to 10 of the murders and they are heavily investigating threemore. There were 13 more unsolved murders during the years that he"operated" that had similarities to him that they are looking into.These new twists could keep on coming for awhile. Carolyn says there issupposed to be a good show on the catching of him tomorrow night. Maybeit was on CNN....

Raspberry


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## Meganc731 (Feb 28, 2005)

I was just reading an article that said some ofhis neighbors and other people he interacted with didn't like him. Ithought that was really interesting. One mom took her son out of CubScouts because of him. He seemed very controlling, always trying tofind reasons to cite his neighbors. 

I wonder what tipped his daughter off?

Megan


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## Carolyn (Feb 28, 2005)

As Raspberry said, CNN has a special on tonightat 10:00 p.m. EST entitled Catching BTK. It's an hourlong show.

Supposedly, Meganc, the daughter was told by the police that theywanted a sample of her DNA to rule out a family member in acrime. 

-Carolyn


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## RebeccaUK (Feb 28, 2005)

This truly is a nightmare Raspberry, lets hope you're right with this post title that it's now come to an end.


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## bluebird (Feb 28, 2005)

Im soo glad they caught this guy.my daughter hada new softball coach from out of town, nobody knew the family. heseemed okay but i went to every practice to make sure,i had heard nastyrumurs from girls on the team that i hope werent true.however i wouldtake no chances my daughter would be alone with this man.bluebird


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## Stephanie (Feb 28, 2005)

Wow, I am just now reading all of this! :shock:

Raspberry, I am so deeply happy that you, your family and community cannow rest easy at night. You mentioned something about aserialkiller to me recently, but I had no idea the depth ofwhat was going on. I'm sorry I didn't ask more at the time.

I am going to watch that show tonight, thanks for letting us know.


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## JimD (Feb 28, 2005)

Hi Raspberry!!!

I have been following this even before I opened the paper tosee the article, and just wanted you to know that you have been in ourthoughts and prayers constantly.

I was so excited I ran around the house waving the paper around trying to explain what it was all about.

~Jim


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## RaspberrySwirl (Feb 28, 2005)

Jim, the vision ofyou running around in happiness, excitedly waving a paper brings a muchneeded smile to my face.Thanks, I needed that! 

Raspberry


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## JimD (Feb 28, 2005)




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## Carolyn (Feb 28, 2005)

*bunnylovespoo wrote:*


> that is very scary my dad went to prizon becos he tried tokil a man but he got away


Banned. Sorry Raspberry. Keeping this post only for proof of the trolling. 

-Carolyn


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## Dwarf_Angel04 (Feb 28, 2005)

I just looked on my DirectTV Guide for the show tonight about BTK. 
The actual show is called NewsNight with Aaron Brown.


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## RaspberrySwirl (Feb 28, 2005)

I had a lengthytalk with my sister this morning and got some more details on herarguments with BTK. It happened last summer. As you may know he is thecompliance officer for Park City. The area had suffered a streak ofvandalism to cars that were parked on the streets and my sister and herhusband chose to park all their cars in the driveway until the crimeshad settled down.

They had one too many cars to fit intheir drive and had to pull one into the yard each night until mybrother-in-law left for work in the mornings. He didn't like the carparked in the yard. 

She told him "He could march his ass overto her house and she would show him her disability papers that wouldexplain why she didn't get around well enough early in the day to movethe car until her medications kicked in." 

She then explained to him that she hasrheumatoid arthritis and is home alone all day!:shock:Sheexplained that once her medicines beginworking about mid morning she gets out and moves the car but thatshedidn't want to take a chance of falling and not being ableto get up on her own. 

How's that for giving him an invitationto come to your house??? She had several more heated arguments with himbut he backed off. She's been talking to a friend the last couple days,who is a psychologist and she told my sister that perhaps he wasn'tinterested in attacking aggressive women.... 

We are a bit aggressive in our family...

Raspberry


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## Meganc731 (Feb 28, 2005)

I have no doubt that your sisterwould have whooped some booty if he had been interested in her,rheumatoid arthritis or not! She sounds fiesty! 

Megan


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## BunnyMommy (Feb 28, 2005)

Oh, mercy, Raspberry!!! ... :shock: I almost FAINTED when I read this!!! 

Oh, man ... thank HEAVENS he apparently was a little intimidated by your sister ... this could have been a real tragedy!

I'm getting goosebumps again!!!


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## Dwarf_Angel04 (Mar 1, 2005)

[suB]On the show last night I got theimpression that the Radar's family friends didn't really want to talkabout them on tv. Maybe they were just nervous but that would be scaryknowing someone for 44 years and waking up one morning to hear they area serial killer. I just couldn't imagine that feeling! [/suB]


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## Carolyn (Mar 1, 2005)

Hope you got your slides done, Raspberry. 

Looking forward to this week being over for you.





-Carolyn


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## Carolyn (Mar 1, 2005)

Rasperry says hi.

BunnyMommy, she gets a kick out of your bug-eyed posts and how you express yourself. 

She's got a crazy week and won't be around much.

See you when we see you, Raspberry!





-Carolyn


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## RaspberrySwirl (Mar 1, 2005)

Thanks to my budfor letting you all know that all is okay with me. As she said I have acrazy week and will just be popping in and out. Didn't want you tothink I'd taken to hiding in a closet! :shock:

Will see you when I see you! 

Raspberry


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## Carolyn (Mar 2, 2005)

In my opinion, they never should've picked anumber to set bail at. I realize $10 Million is high, butthis guy shouldn't even have a chance at even that. 

-Carolyn


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## mygrl2k3 (Mar 2, 2005)

I havent been able to follow up on this... All iget to watch is Sponge bob and Dora and stuff. I amglad its coming to a end for you. At least the being scared.

Cristy


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## sandhills_rabbits (Mar 2, 2005)

Carolyn wrote:


> In my opinion, the death penalty is too easy for this demon.
> 
> 
> -Carolyn



I agree with Carolyn.... the death penalty would be an easy way out forhim. I think that he should have to suffer with what he has done, andbe reminded of it everyday while he grows older and older just sittingin a prison cell. He has a family. He should have to live the remainingdays of his life out in prison, knowing the heartache, shame, and griefthat he has caused his own loved ones, (not to mention the heartache hehas caused his victim's families).


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## sandhills_rabbits (Mar 2, 2005)

m.e. wrote:


> I'm personally opposed to the death penalty.
> 
> But I have no problem with someone living out their life in a 5x8 box. To me, that is a punishment worse than death.



Amen, m.e.! That is exactly how I feel too..... I feel that two wrongsdont make a right. I am aware of how costly it is to keep prisonerslocked up, and people are always saying it's so much more costeffective to have the death penalty in place..... But to me moneyshould be beside the point. I feel that horrible criminals should havelive with what they have done, and pay the price for their crimes inprison. I knew someone (a friend) that was in prison, and trust me....the things that inmates often go through would be much more of apunishment then death ever could be.


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## RaspberrySwirl (Mar 2, 2005)

Unless they find amurder that was committed after 1994, one he committed in another statethat had the death penalty in place at the time of the murder hecommitted, or one he committed during his time in the service, thedeath penalty will not be an option in Kansas. So far, the murders heis accused of were all prior to 1994, which is when the death penaltywas reinstated. Of course, many people don't believe he quit killingafter 1994, but it's a matter of whether or not they will be able tofind and convict on the crimes after that point.

Raspberry


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## Carolyn (Mar 2, 2005)

I'd be shocked if they didn't find out that hecommitted murders all along. I really don't believe this guyever stopped killing. Considering how muchheenjoyed it and saved momentos from his victims, I don't think youjust'snap out of it' for 20 years. 

-Carolyn


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## RaspberrySwirl (Mar 2, 2005)

I talked to afriend today who knows another compliance officer who had a workingrelationship with Dennis Rader. She said he had 24/7 access to anincinerator in Wichita that was used for disposal of dead animals, deerthat had been hit, euthanized animals and such. I certainly hope thatWichita PD is heavily investigating all missing persons reports duringthe time he's had access to that incinerator. 

Raspberry


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## Carolyn (Mar 2, 2005)

Good Lord, Raspberry. :shock:

I'm sure the cops are pulling it apart with a fine toothed comb, butafter all this time, who knows what cold case clues it would hold.

Heard last night that the first day he was arrested, people wereselling tickets they had gotten with his signature on it onEbay. Ebay put an end to it, but the people picked up sellingsuch items on another area of the internet. Don't know who'ssicker, him or the people paying and selling this stuff. :X

-Carolyn


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## Flopsy (Mar 2, 2005)

*RaspberrySwirl wrote:*


> I talked to a friend today whoknows another compliance officer who had a working relationship withDennis Rader. She said he had 24/7 access to an incinerator in Wichitathat was used for disposal of dead animals, deer that had been hit,euthanized animals and such. I certainly hope that Wichita PD isheavily investigating all missing persons reports during the time he'shad access to that incinerator.
> 
> Raspberry




Eh, thats scary and really gross. Theres no doubt in my mine if he had access to that he had tested it or something. 

-------------------------------------------------

Carolyn

Thats really horrible, I hate to hear when people do stupid things likethat. I'm glad ebay caught that and put it to an end.




-Ashley


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## Carolyn (Mar 11, 2005)

Hi Raspberry,

Hearing about Judge Barnes, the Deputy, and the Court Recorder gettingshot today; having that other Judge's mother and husband shot last weekin their home, the week before finding BTK - with that 'resume' suremakes me shiver.

Kids safety at schools are threatened since Columbine, not to mention 9/11/01, and the war we're in.

* * * * * * 

As Cat Stevens sang, "Ooo Baby, Baby, it's A Wild World..."

...and as Scarlett O'Hara said, "Oh, I just can't think about that now. I'll think about it tomorrow."

-Carolyn


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## MyBunnyLovesMe (Mar 11, 2005)

I was watching TLC today when a commercial came on about the BTK killings.

There is going to be a show on it sometime next week at 8pm...


**edit**

It's called "BTK: Killer Next Door?", its on Monday at 9pm...

that must've been so scary to go through.


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## RaspberrySwirl (Mar 12, 2005)

We aren't gettingmuch in the way of "new" news. Mostly just repetitive stuff aroundhere. It's just a waiting game I think, to see what will happen nowwith the next court appearance and such. They have opened upthe street again where he lived. I went by yesterday when I picked myDad up for dinner. It's still a creepy thought that he lived a coupledozen houses down from Dad. :?

Raspberry


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## Carolyn (Mar 12, 2005)

I can't believe they've had the road cut off all this time. It shouldn't come as a surprise, but it's been 2 weeks, right? 

Good for the cops. I hope they got it right. Can't see how his trialcould take place in or near the area where the murders were committed. 

It just makes you shiver knowing how close to this guy so many of your family members came.

Hope Kansas goes back to being what it always was -"...There's No Place Like Home."

-Carolyn


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## MyBabyBunnies (Mar 13, 2005)

That's really scary! There's a show on tomorrowabout the BTK that I plan on watching to educate myself on his crimesand because my curiousity of how he managed to do all that stuff andnot get caught has been perked. I think what he did was horrible but itreally does make you want to watch that show.

I think it's sad that people have to fear things like this. 

P.S.- If anyone else is interested the show is called "BTK: Killer Next Door?" on TLC Monday at 9:00 pm EST (I beleive).


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## rarepup (Mar 13, 2005)

This guyislookingreallyguilty but I hope the law doesn't have any loop holeshe can get out through like them taking that DNA evidence without hisdaughter knowing it. We have stupid, ignorant, left sided laws herethat protect the guilty and if he gets good enough lawyers he could getoff the hook just by pure "evidence" problems.


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## Carolyn (Mar 13, 2005)

rarepup wrote:


> This guy?is?looking really?guilty but I hope the law doesn'thave any loop holes he can get out through like them taking that DNAevidence without his daughter knowing it. We have stupid, ignorant,left sided laws here that protect the guilty and if he gets good enoughlawyers he could get off the hook just by pure "evidence" problems.




Like what they're saying now - how the Chief of Police never should'vesaid "BTK is arrested." Understand the excitement, but Not Cool! Evenhaving the DNA, he shouldn't've said that as he's supposed to beconsidered innocent until proven guilty. I'd say that's pretty guilty,but you had to know at that moment that a defense attorney wasscribbling on his notepad.

Open mouth, insert foot. :?

-Carolyn


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## Carolyn (Mar 14, 2005)

Dear Raspberry,

That was a great documentary tonight. It focused on not only thepsycho, but on the whole community being terrorized. You poor people. 

I shook through the whole program, and couldn't imagine being you. 

It's true what the one man said, "If it was in L.A., everybody would've known." How sad is that?

The fear goes on until we know he's locked up for good, or dead.

Prayers continue, and always will for the innocence and trust he took away from you for all these years.

Love, 
-Carolyn


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## lyndsy (Mar 14, 2005)

Just finnished watching this too, WOW:shock:

He was a scout leader, a father, a church president, etc. 

I find these sort of cases very disturbing... How can a person, one person lead such a double life?

Lyndsy


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## RaspberrySwirl (Mar 15, 2005)

It really is freakyisn't it? How a person must be different in his mind to be able to betwo different people like that. And from listening to people who reallyknew him, not just in this program but in plenty of other interviews,he was a true friend to some people...:?Can you imagine thepain and confusion those people must be feeling? How you would doubtyourself??? 

As I've said before, it's hard to explainif you haven't lived it, but look at my "small town living" thread andthen think about having this man work beside your husband. Sit at yourdaughters table as she serves him at the restaurant. Harassing yoursister over a compliance issue. Imagine him watching your Dad walk pasthis home every morning on his daily walk. It's hard to even comprehend,even for me, because it's so unreal....

RaspberrySwirl


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## m.e. (Mar 15, 2005)

Wow, that must be pretty scary to think about now!

The closet brush I've ever had with anything like that was back in2002. Our family was visiting Washington, D.C., and staying inneighboring Fairfax, Virginia, the first couple weeks of September. Afew days later, we had the news on for some reason...and I rememberthinking, "*That* looks familiar."

It was the D.C. sniper.

I followed the story for the next couple weeks with a bizarre - almostsurreal - detattchment. I was *there*. We _stood_ at some ofthe places where people were shot, not so long before. That was asclose as I had ever gotten to anything like that, and as close as I_ever_ want to get.


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## Dwarf_Angel04 (Mar 15, 2005)

*m.e. wrote: *


> Wow, that must be pretty scary to think about now!
> 
> The closet brush I've ever had with anything like that was back in2002. Our family was visiting Washington, D.C., and staying inneighboring Fairfax, Virginia, the first couple weeks of September. Afew days later, we had the news on for some reason...and I rememberthinking, "*That* looks familiar."
> 
> ...


Oh the D.C. Sniper was scary too! All of the 'attacks' fromthe D.C. Sniper were within a half an hour to an hour ofwhere I used to live! I knew friends in just about every town he hitat! I had a few friends that stayed stationary at their house becauseof the D.C Snipers. Those poor people couldn't be at a gas stationwithout the fear of being killed. I'm just glad none of theD.C Snipers victums were friends of mine! I too had been inmany of the locations that they were shot at! My parents were a normalcustomer for the guy that was shot in Manassass VA and to think I wentto church right around the corner from that gas station. :?

I never lived in that fear but had many friends that were who sharedtheir feelings with me. I can only imagine how the 'little town' felttrying to 'dodge' the BTK killer for 19 or so years!


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## Carolyn (Mar 15, 2005)

Yes, it really is hard to comprehend that yourfamily brushed up against that Maniac so many times. Yourdaughter, father, sister, and husband. That about covers allareas of your family, ey?!

The show definitely gave you a perspective on how it effected the community.

It was creepy how he knew where all the single women lived, if they hada dog, if they had an alarm system, what their schedules were, etc.because he had access to all that information.

Incredible. It's getting hard to trust anyone anymore.

-Carolyn


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## RaspberrySwirl (Mar 15, 2005)

At least we couldfeel somewhat safe if we were in groups or out in public. With thesniper you would feel like you could be picked off like prey by ahunter at any moment anywhere...how creepy...

I'm glad it didn't last 30 years for those people. :?

Raspberry


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## Bramble Briar86 (Mar 19, 2005)

Have you heard more news on what's happening on the BTK's trial? 

Did anyone hear that Scott Peterson was ssentenced to death row:shock:?i didn't think that the case would move so quickly. He must've had alot of evidence proving he was guilty. 

Glad to hear that you can move "safely" around town without the fear of him showing up on your door step.

Ellie


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## RaspberrySwirl (Mar 19, 2005)

There was supposedto have been something happen here this last week or so but it gotchanged to a couple months away! :X

Raspberry


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## Carolyn (Apr 13, 2005)

Hey Raspberry,

Any new news?

-Carolyn


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## RaspberrySwirl (Apr 13, 2005)

Not really. Theyhave stories here and there in the paper about so and so knew him backwhen, or somebody's theory on what his defense will be. But I haven'treally heard anything new lately. I don't even know when the next courtdate is. I guess I need to pay better attention. :?

Raspberry


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## Carolyn (Apr 13, 2005)

No big deal, Raspberry. I'm sure Icould find out the next court date on the net. Just wascurious. Don't bother to follow it. You've gotenough going on. When it goes to court, we'll hear alot, I'msure. 



-Carolyn


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## Meganc731 (Apr 13, 2005)

I just checked this thread last night to see if there was an update!!


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## Bramble Briar86 (Apr 18, 2005)

Anything new on the case, Raspberry?

Ellie &amp; the Buns


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## RaspberrySwirl (Apr 19, 2005)

He goes to courttomorrow morning at 9:00. There is so much commotion here with themedia from all over the United States, you wouldn't believe it! There'sall kinds of guessing going on as to what will happen. Some say he willplead not guilty and then it will go on to trial, some say he hasalready confessed...There is no telling what will happen. Everyone iswaiting to see because this is the first we will hear from theprosecutors about what they really have on him...if they actually tellus this time! 

Raspberry


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## cirrustwi (Apr 19, 2005)

I haven't honestly read this entire thread, justbits and pieces. I've kept up with the case in the news, butit's all awful, so I've kind of ignore it here...sometimes I just don'twant to deal with it. Anyway, I've never been sure what tosay when I was reading here, so I didn't say anything, and even as Ipost this, I know it sounds stupid and...

Ok, so I really wanted to say that we should all offer prayers for thevictims' families because this trial will bring it all back to lightfor them.

Jen


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## RaspberrySwirl (Apr 19, 2005)

Well....everyonewas hoping to hear what the state had on him but he waived his right topreliminary hearing. That means the state didn't have to prove anyevidence against him to hold him over for trial. Usually he would thenenter a plea right after the preliminary hearing but they agreed tocontinue that until May 3rd. Sooooo, we didn't hear anything new andeveryone is just guessing about what's next. 

He has grown a beard and has lost a lotof weight. I guess we will know something more in three weeks.

RaspberrySwirl


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## Stephanie (Apr 19, 2005)

Keep us posted. I saw that TLC did a rerun ofthat show the other night and thought of you. Ok, that didn't soundquite right......not that I associate you with this guy, just thisthread and the discussions we've had about it!


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## RaspberrySwirl (May 3, 2005)

Dennis Rader walksinto the courtroom in ten minutes for his arraignment. We may finallyget to see what the prosecution has against him, depending on what hisplea is. 

RaspberrySwirl


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## Bramble Briar86 (May 3, 2005)

Ooooo, i wonder what will happen, please keep usposted, Raspberry. Such a wicked man, it speaks a thousand more wordsabout him if he pleads "not guilty"...

Ellie


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## RaspberrySwirl (May 3, 2005)

The plea - not guilty!!!! :shock:


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## Bramble Briar86 (May 3, 2005)

:shock:


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## RaspberrySwirl (May 3, 2005)

The state is motioning to do something but I haven't figured out what yet....


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## RaspberrySwirl (May 3, 2005)

The prosecutor isreading charges against Rader to him...The first one is of First degreemurder against Delores Davis...especially cruel andhaeneous...

I don't get that part. They only read that one charge. 

Theysaid they are giving noticeof the hard forty sentence possibility on that one charge or something.

What they are saying is Rader stood muteand the judge entered the plea of not guilty. Stand Mute means he doesnot desire to enter a plea but he is required to enter a plea so thejudge has to enter one for him.


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## Carolyn (May 3, 2005)

Would like to know what a plea of not guilty isgoing to do for him. The idiot must think he's got achance. Unbelieveable! 

His family's going to have to move to Alaska by the time this trialstarts, if not sooner. I wonder if they're getting harrasssedor if people are leaving them alone and believe that they didn't knowanything.

What a mess!

-Carolyn


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## m.e. (May 3, 2005)

"Innocent until proven guilty."

He didn't enter a sentance, if I am understanding this correctly, sothe judge entered one for him. No matter how unfair it seems, the aboveprinciple still holds for anyone tried in our courts of law.

Besides, the judge can't very well enter a plea of guilty before he hears the case 

.


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## Carolyn (May 3, 2005)

yea yea yea...when they have hisDNA onthe bodies of victims, panties of the ladies in his garage, etc., Isuppose he _could_ be innocent. 

As they say, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, chances are, it's a duck. 

But, yes, "innocent until proven guilty". 

-Carolyn


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## RaspberrySwirl (May 3, 2005)

Maybe Carolyn missed her calling! :shock:







RaspberrySwirl


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## JimD (May 3, 2005)

Too bad the judge couldn't just enter a "guilty-as-sin" plea and be done with it!!

Only in America!!!


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## Bramble Briar86 (May 3, 2005)

Carolyn wrote:


> As they say, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, chances are, it's a duck.


Whilst reading this i was thinking, "It's gotta be a turkey!"
But, hey, like they always say, if the quack fits!
Ellie


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## Carolyn (Jun 27, 2005)

*Now* the nightmare really _is_ as over as it's going to be, Raspberry, with his Guilty Plea today.

What a Sick Psycho. 

God Bless the victims and their families, the community, and his family for the pain and suffering that this monster has caused.

ray:

-Carolyn


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## RaspberrySwirl (Jun 28, 2005)

Have you seen the footage of his descriptions of the crimes???

Sick doesn't even begin to describe thisvile, poorexcuse of a slimy serpant...:X

He has no remorse. He described what hedid to those people as if it were craft time at a preschool table. It'sjust disgusting.


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## FreddysMom (Jun 28, 2005)

Ive been watching it all day, Raspberry, hemakes me nauseous. Absolutely no emotion... I would equivilate it tosomeone reading a passage out of the most boring book...as if you hadno interest or it was that miniscule to you....he has absolutely noregard for human life..........i am so sorry you had to have a man thatdisguting polluting your town!! My best wishes are toward him beingat least being put away for life...


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## kelso (Jun 28, 2005)

I heard about this today. Sick. :X


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## RaspberrySwirl (Jun 28, 2005)

I had actuallykind of put this behind me, more or less, after he was caught. Butafter yesterday it was on every 24 hour news channel again last nightand I stayed up all night watching all the "Docs and Pros" try toanalyze this guy. Then I didn't sleep well at all. 

It is so disturbing. The way he clickedhis tongue, smiled, bobbed his head back and forth....it was likesomeone chatting about a game over a pizza and beer. He was right wherehe wanted to be. On stage, everyone watching, he was the center ofattention and only telling us what he wanted us to know, never anymore. Even though the judge was in control of the courtroom, BTK wasstill in control of everyone's emotions. He KNEW EXACTLY what he wasdoing and how to play this game all this time. He can't hurt the peoplehe killed any more but he can continue to torture many other peoplethrough this behavior....

Anyone who has an interest in humanbehavior, or is in college taking classes that would relate to thistype of thing, would find it incredible interesting to watch there-plays of his re-account of the killings. When a human is rememberinga fact his eyes dart to one direction, when they are lying the eyesdart to a different direction, when they are creating the eyes go to aneven different direction. It's very interesting to watch Dennis Rader'seyes as he speaks........

Raspberry


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## Carolyn (Jun 28, 2005)

I looked for the reports on this last night,Raspberry, but was shocked when FOX, or CourtTV and CNN weren'tcovering it. 

It was sick the way he took pride in his 'projects'. Icompletely agree. He loved grossing people out and recallingthe murders. Sick how he was giving us a 'lesson about serielkillers' and what they do - in the stages they come up against.

Maybe he'll meet the same fate that Dahmer did in jail.

-Carolyn


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## Stephanie (Jun 28, 2005)

Do you guys have the death pentaly in Kansas? Do you think that's what he'd get?

I agree with you Carolyn.......


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## RaspberrySwirl (Jun 28, 2005)

The death penaltywasn't in effect during the years that he committed the crimes. Manypeople believe he probably committed more murders after the years thatit was effective, but he's not talking about that. Supposedly the DAhas investigated all the missing persons reports and cold cases, butrumor has it on all the BTK forums that with his 24 hour access to thecounty incinerator for burning animals, no one will ever know how manyhe might have killed. 

By the way, the BTK online forums provedin the end to be an invaluable source of information for lawenforcement. I don't know that they ever came out and made a publicannouncement, but just as was proven here. I posted a photo and toldall of you who BTK was before the rest of the world knew about it. Iknew because I was a member of the forums and the members all workedtogether to dig up information and put together valuable information tosolve this case. There were many, many law enforcement people on thoseforums who were anonamous...

Raspberry


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## Stephanie (Jun 28, 2005)

Wow, that's incredible.


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## seniorcats (Jun 28, 2005)

We watched Nancy Grace's show last night and shehad Dennis Rader's testimony. The granddaughter of one of hisvictims spoke to Nancy and called Rader 'something not human' andsomeone who should not be given the attention he craves because of hiscrimes. He sat there and dispassionately talked about hishideous crimes. I felt as though he really wanted to brag andswagger about the court room. He goes beyond any words I have todescribe him except evil incarnate.

I hope the judge gives him consecutive life terms and not a concurrentsentence. Watching Nancy Grace gave just a tiny glimpse ofwhat it was like to be afraid in Wichita. I am glad it isover for the people of Kansas and forthe victims' families.left


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## Carolyn (Aug 12, 2005)

There's a 2 hour special on tonight. "Jailhouse Interview" with Dateline. 

-Carolyn


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## JimD (Aug 12, 2005)

*Carolyn wrote:*


> There's a 2 hour special on tonight. "JailhouseInterview" with Dateline.
> 
> -Carolyn


I'm going to see if I can watch that. What time is it on?


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## RaspberrySwirl (Aug 12, 2005)

I just returnedfrom a short out of towner and was reading about the interview and thedateline special also. There are a lot of local stations and papersreporting different pieces of things he's said... Sicko...


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## Stephanie (Aug 12, 2005)

I'll be watching that, thanks for posting Carolyn.


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## Carolyn (Aug 12, 2005)

JimD wrote:


> *Carolyn wrote: *
> 
> 
> > There's a 2 hour special on tonight.? "Jailhouse Interview" with Dateline.?
> ...




It's on at 8 EST, Jim and Stephanie. 

I'm definitely going to watch it, even though a part of me doesn't wantto give the guy an audience. I know he says things just to freak peopleout and he's loving the publicity. I do feel like this one's close tohome though with Raspberry being so close.

* * * **

By the way Raspberry - "short trip"? I think NOT, Young Lady! :waiting:

-Carolyn


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## Stephanie (Aug 12, 2005)

I know! I was wondering where you were Razz. 

Thanks for the times Carolyn, I couldn't remember if that show was on at 8 or 9. I think they air it a couple times a week.


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## JimD (Aug 12, 2005)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> I'm definitely going to watch it, even though a part of me doesn't wantto give the guy an audience. I know he says things just to freak peopleout and he's loving the publicity.
> 
> -Carolyn


He's thestuff that trolls are made of.


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## Carolyn (Aug 12, 2005)

No Doubt, JimD...and then some!

Steph, They're playing it off like this is the first time this show has aired. It's a two-hour special.

-Carolyn


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## Linz_1987 (Aug 12, 2005)

Brrri am shivering now i have readthat story. It sounds more like a horror movie :?I am so gladyou and your family are safe! And that everybody else should be afterthey have locked him up and thrown away the key! Im the only persondownstairs and im scared lol I have to go out in the garden to let thedog out in a minute too. Help!


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## Linz_1987 (Aug 12, 2005)

Im gonna have nightmares myself tonight! :?


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## Stephanie (Aug 12, 2005)

OMG it's so CHILLING to watch him!


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## Carolyn (Aug 12, 2005)

Stephanie wrote:


> OMG it's so CHILLING to watch him!






Remember what happened to Dahmer?


"Dennis" is onto a new Chapter now.

We'll see how his ego survives This One.

* * * * * *

Prayers go out to his victims, their families, his family, thecommunity, and our own Raspberry Swirl :angel: and her family. ray: 

:rose:

What a Waste :disgust:

-Carolyn


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## ariel (Aug 13, 2005)

Where I work we have a tv and usually at about 5pm my boss flicks iton, distracting but hey he is the boss, anyway I seen on the news a bitabout this guy and I couldn't believe it! I mean I seen on the newshere earlier when he was first caught but I was shocked to see himsitting on tv yet again smiling, that man makes me so mad and just ..Oh I can't even say it here.

I am hoping all his victims families can somehow move on with theirlives and if ever this man ever comes for parole to fight it the wholeway and make him stay in jail for the rest of his life.


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## JimD (Aug 13, 2005)

I missed it. I'll have to see if they're going to air it again.

My thoughts and prayers are with all of those affected by this.ray:

~Jim


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## FreddysMom (Aug 17, 2005)

for anyone interested, the setencing of that POS is on Live right now on court TV


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## JimD (Aug 17, 2005)

*FreddysMom wrote:*


> for anyone interested, the setencing of that POS is on Liveright now on court TV




I'm at work. Keep us posted!


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## FreddysMom (Aug 17, 2005)

so far the potential is a life sentence pf 175 years for 10 counts of murder


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## FreddysMom (Aug 18, 2005)

10 counts of murder in the 1st life for each of them and is not eligible for parole for 40 years.


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## JimD (Aug 18, 2005)

*FreddysMom wrote:*


> 10 counts of murder in the 1st life for each of them and isnot eligible for parole for 40 years.




...t'ain't enough, says I...



...maybe if he serves it as a chew toy in a lion preserve...


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## FreddysMom (Aug 18, 2005)

theyre going to keep him in solitary for themajority of it. let him suffer to his own devices ... he'll gots nutsw/o constant attention on him ..he NEEDS that attention and is going tosuffer miserabely w/o it!


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## RaspberrySwirl (Aug 18, 2005)

I've lived in this town with this circus for all these years... 

Mark my words, he will sit there in thatprison until all of this dies down for a while, and then when everyonethinks it's all over, he will spring something else on us. He willdelight in telling more.

He trolled the state for all those yearswhen therewere supposedly no victims??? 

There are more victims. 

There are more gory stories. 

He can't go on without the spotlight. Theonly hope is that someone will gut him in prison first.


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## FreddysMom (Aug 18, 2005)

right before they arrested him, he was planninganother victim where he was going to kill the person and hang them fromhooks on the ceiling so that the body would stretch and be the firstthing ppl found when they entered the house .... he makes me nauseous


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