# Opinions on bonding unfixed rabbits



## Flashy (Nov 24, 2008)

I'm after peoples opinions on bonding unfixed rabbits to fixed rabbits or other unfixed rabbits (excluding obviously unfixed m-f because that's just down right stupid).

I'm after things like problems that can arise, opinions on if it should be done, have you done it successfully/unsuccessfully, etc. Anything and everything. Also how rescues deal with young bunnies and bonding.

I do just want to point out I'm not asking this through ignorance, I'm asking to gain as many people's perspectives as possible. This is currently a relevant issue for me (not with my own bunnies), and so I'm after other people's opinions. This is very relevant to rabbit rescue, so if you have any strong opinions or ideas relating to that, they are much appreciated.

Thanks in advance. I'm hoping to use any info gained in a very positive way.

*I just posted this on another rabbit forum but am after as wide range of views as possible. This is due to something happening at my RSPCA, and not anything related to what has been said recently on this forum, nor is this a dig at anyone on here, it is merely me trying to gather info to show and explain to the RSPCA why what has been happening has been happening, and to look for ways to stop it happening.*


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## Ninchen (Nov 24, 2008)

I usually bond a fixed male with an unfixed female.
No problems with that combination.

I have two pairs like that now.

I have no experiences with bonding fixed females or unfixed males at all.


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## NorthernAutumn (Nov 24, 2008)

I easily bonded neutered Stuart with un-spayed Evie.
She did not bond with neutered Slatey, due to personality conflict.
I would have not spayed her, except:
- she was building nests, having false pregnancies; resulted in agitation
- she was peeing inappropriately

- (this is the most important one to me  ) She could potentially come down with uterine cancer. I am a hypochondriac myself, and the idea of one of my animals getting sick horrifies me (also because I will not be able to afford the treatment). 

Spaying was more of a preventative health care tactic. I was also really worried that Stuart would outlive her, and be a lonely old rabbit man without her. They are maybe 6 months apart, and I don't want them to lose eachother. If I can prolong her life without causing her to suffer endlessly, I'll do it (my reasoning, b/c I'd rather have 10 years with her than 6 or 7 if possible)

I know that there are some varying opinions on the prevalance of uterine cancer; I'm pretty paranoid, so I took the surgery option.
It was very scary, as I could potentially lose her on the table.
I wish that I had access to the less invasive laser spay option. 

I probably would not have spayed her if I was not able to afford it, period. But I can always save money up to afford preventative care. It is my understanding that she would be more susceptible to uterine cancer if she were spending more time outside with external parasites. As she is a house bunny who occasionally goes outside, I can see that I would probably be able to get away without spaying her.

Like I said, I'm a hypochondriac... I don't want her to become ill if I can stop it (same reason I get my flu shot, I guess, or why ppl get their appendix or tonsils out...)

(Well, that was a book!)


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## MissBinky (Nov 24, 2008)

*Unfixed/Unfixed:*

I'm gonna say it and I'm gonna say this: Don't do it. Lol.

I had a pair of unfixed males. And a pair of unfixed females. 

Would I do it again if I could turn back time? Yes. No. I don't know. I'm happy because for them it really worked. However, I know for a fact, that at any given time, it could have gone wrong. And that's just not a good thing to know.Is it something that should be encouraged? No. Why did I do it? I didn't really. They did. And then I took the risk and trusted them, deciding to see where it would lead. They were lonely. I had just lost Wiggles. I wasn't okay. There was too much for me to deal with all at once and so I became emotionally detached from the rabbits. I merely cared for them physically. Bam-Bam was a mess, Ashton was a just a youngin wanting attention. Dahlia was sad as Bam-Bam because i was ignoring her and then well it just happened. One day, I was really down and the only thing that could cheer me up was the bunnies and so I sat on the floor with the four of them and they paired off. And that was that. 

*Unfixed/Fixed:*

It's still pretty risky though but I guess sometimes you just land on those exceptionnal bunnies with exceptionnal personalities. I think in this situation, the most important factor is age, and making sure that the hormones have already kicked in so you know exactly how the bunnies are from the start. So you don't end up with them being fine one minute and then they are fighting the next. I guess sometimes you have to make an exception, like when a bunny really really needs that companionship. I would only do it in obvious situations though.

_________________________________

Personally, I am not really for bonding rescues. I definitely do not agree with them being bonded and being split up afterwards. I have heard of some places doing that. Even for fostering, etc. I just don't like it, but that is just my opinion... I just find that bonded bunnies tend to be harder to place in general. A lot of people that adopt are only starting out with rabbits so they get intimidated because they just see it as being 2 rabbits rather than it being 2 friends, more attention for each other. Also, so far from what I've seen, many of the people adopting rabbits are people who already own a rabbit and decide that they want a mate for their bun so it's hard when most of the buns are already paired up. I don't know, that's how it is here though, maybe it's different elsewhere however. Not many people have houses so everyone wants the smallest pet possible... :?

Anyway, that's my opinion


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## Hayley411 (Nov 24, 2008)

I think it depends on personalities.

I have an unfixedbonded pair of girls; Sherbert and her daughter Luna have never been seperated and it worked out great.I probably will end up spaying them both in the future, just as a precaution. But as of right now I don't really see a need for it.

I also think bonding rabbits in a rescue is a bad idea, for pretty much the same reasons as MissBinky.

~Hayley


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## Flashy (Nov 24, 2008)

Thanks for all your opinions guys, the situation is close to being sorted now


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## NZminilops (Nov 24, 2008)

In New Zealand, if you are going to pair off rabbits and you are an average rabbit owner, it is normally:

Unfixed male/unfixed male (usually brothers)
Unfixed female/unfixed female (often sisters or mother and daughter)
Unfixed female/fixed male

Pretty much you wont come across a spayed female unless through the SPCA. They have a strict desexing policy UNLESS it's a female flemish giant, which they will not spay and I have no idea why (they say because it's risky to spay large rabbits, I don't agree with them).

I think unfixed female can work with a fixed male well, but she can get upset because she isn't getting mated and get aggressive towards her partner.

Best unfixed couple I have come across are mother and daughter. Have known of many bonded pairs of mother and daughter who never fight. Sisters work well too.


The only two reasons why I would desex a rabbit would be for:

-so they don't have babies
-so a female bunny wouldn't get uterine cancer

I don't find fixed rabbits have better toileting habits than intact rabbits, who can be trained pretty easily. Fixed rabbits seems to be just as aggressive and unfixed on this forum, you see lots of fighting issues when trying to bond.

Don't know if that helped but that's how things normally are in NZ.


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## ec (Nov 24, 2008)

My first thought: please spay and neuter!

My last thought: Ditto. (Unless there are medical conditions that preclude an op.)

My other suggestion: Don't force a bond, ever. (You wouldn't want someone doing that to you, now would you?)


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## Maureen Las (Nov 24, 2008)

I have no experience with the concept of NOT spaying a bonded pair. 
We get them in at the shelter and spay/neuter before adoption. 

I adopted an unspayed female and neutered male. (She was spayed after adoption)He was oppresssed by her need to hump him. Animals can suffer from their unrelenting hormonal drive. 

I feel that all pairs should be spayed and neutered. 
I have seen unaltered males try to kill each other and believe me they would ...we did have 2 brothers at the shelter apparently bonded ; one was the slave of the others hormonal drive and being passive endured constant humping. 

2 girsl can live together peacefully sometimes or else get uterine cancer.
I am all for spay/ neuter unless you are a true breeder


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## gentle giants (Nov 24, 2008)

I have done it succesfully more than once. I have several groups living together right now, that consist of: Delilah (spayed) Peaches (spayed) Buzz (neutered) Sweetheart (intact) another Delilah (intact) Daisy (intact) That is one group, I also have two groups of four intact does, both groups are sisters and have never been apart. I also have five boys living together, three are neutered but two are not. The only reason some of them are unfixed is because of lack of money here, I don't plan on them staying that way forever.

A small side note-all of mine are rescues, but I would never break up a pair. If anyone wants to adopt out of any of these groups they would have to take two. Or more, if they are feeling brave, LOL. I do totally agree with Miss Binky that pairs should not be broken up. I have had requests like that before, and turned down the adopter all together because of it.


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## Ninchen (Nov 25, 2008)

NZminilops wrote:


> I think unfixed female can work with a fixed male well, but she can get upset because she isn't getting mated and get aggressive towards her partner.



My fixed males like to mount their girls very much.
Sometimes the females run away and sometimes they encourage the males, depends on the season.

Never had a male, who was surpressed by his intact female.
I would seperate them in that case and look for new partners fpr both of them.

Bonding depends on character, age and sex.


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## Flashy (Nov 25, 2008)

Thank you everyone for your views.

Just thought I'd do a bit of explaining now.

At our RSCPA all bunnies that are bonded go with their bonded friend/s. No bunnies are split up from their bond once they are bonded, although they don't always keep those that come in together together. All bunnies adopted out go either as a pair (or in some rare cases a trio) or they go as a single to bond with an owners own bunny. No bunnies go to be adopted by themselves. 

The problem that we have been having is that the staff don't have that much knowledge and have been making some decisions that I probably wouldn't make.

I have contact with any family who has a adopted a rabbit and see them straight through the first three months, and then beyond if they do need support or help (such as with bonding, illness, accommodation, etc).

Just recently some of the bondings the centre have done have been having problems. The main one is where they adopted out a spayed female to an unneutered male. This bonding worked fine for a while. The boy, due to his hormonal behaviour became the dominant one (i.e. the chasing and humping), and then when he was neutered, despite the owners keeping them together and doing everything right, his lack of hormonal behaviour has meant that the female has started to fight him for the dominant role, and now both buns have been fighting viciously and are now separated, and facing return to the centre. Had the RSPCA waited until the boy was fixed then bonded, this would now not be an issue.

I spoke to my supervisor about this in great detail, and she contacted a rabbit guy that the centre listen to (as I'm only a volunteer I carry no weight) and he actually agrees with me, which is fantastic. He has told my supervisor that all bucks should be neutered before they go out and before they are bonded, but the girls, because they have to wait longer, can go out only with a bun of similar age, or a sibling mate. I also reiterated to my supervisor about keeping a neutered guy from an unspayed female for 2 months after his neuter because he can still do it, and they would not want to be responsible for more unwanted rabbits. She really listened and took it on board, which was good, and I think she will talk to the right people and get this sorted.

So that's what the issue was about  But it looks like its on the way to being sorted.


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