# releasing un tame rabbits



## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

I'm looking for advice on realeasing rabbits into my garden/area. My uncle has rabbits he used to keep in an enclosure and he realeased them into his garden, they breed and have babies but they stick around his home. I was thinking about getting some from him and releasing them. The only threat are foxes but my dog usually keeps them away. Would they stay around? Would I have to keep them in a pen and then release them to keep them around? There are no rabbits in my area.


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## Flashy (Dec 14, 2008)

The only responsible way I can see to 'release' rabbits would be to have a fully rabbit proof (so nothing could get in, and they couldn't find a way out, and there was nothing harmful to them in the area, i.e. some plants) garden. If you don't have that, then I personally think it would be pretty ignorant and unfair to those rabbits. They are used to being domesticated rabbits, and thats what they should be.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Dec 14, 2008)

*Flashy wrote: *


> The only responsible way I can see to 'release' rabbits would be to have a fully rabbit proof (so nothing could get in, and they couldn't find a way out, and there was nothing harmful to them in the area, i.e. some plants) garden. If you don't have that, then I personally think it would be pretty ignorant and unfair to those rabbits. They are used to being domesticated rabbits, and thats what they should be.



I agree with Flashy.

If here aren't any rabbits in your area, that's how it obviously should be. That's why there aren't any there. They obviously can't survive in the type of condition or whatever. I just personally wouldn't do it. You may regret it later on when you have hundreds of bunnies and get in trouble, etc. 

Emily


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

*Flashy wrote: *


> The only responsible way I can see to 'release' rabbits would be to have a fully rabbit proof (so nothing could get in, and they couldn't find a way out, and there was nothing harmful to them in the area, i.e. some plants) garden. If you don't have that, then I personally think it would be pretty ignorant and unfair to those rabbits. They are used to being domesticated rabbits, and thats what they should be.


They aren't domestic though...he realeased them two years ago, by semi-tame I mean they don't run when they see you but you can't get close to them or anything. They aren't pets, they'd never be able to be kept in a cage it would be like taking a wild rabbit and shoving it in a cage. These rabbits make burrows and everything. So how is it ignorant and unfair? I would never realease a rabbit that's a pet like my bunnies, I'd consider that ignorant and unfair


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

*BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *


> *Flashy wrote: *
> 
> 
> > The only responsible way I can see to 'release' rabbits would be to have a fully rabbit proof (so nothing could get in, and they couldn't find a way out, and there was nothing harmful to them in the area, i.e. some plants) garden. If you don't have that, then I personally think it would be pretty ignorant and unfair to those rabbits. They are used to being domesticated rabbits, and thats what they should be.
> ...


There's no rabbits because people hunted them all with dogs but that's banned now and other neighbours are hoping to repopulate.


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## Flashy (Dec 14, 2008)

Well, you didn't make that clear, however I still think that if a bun has been in captivity, unless it has been raised and taught the skills that are needed to survive, then I don't see how you would have happy, healthy buns. I completely agree with Emily too in that if there are not rabbits there, there is a reason for it, and that is probably predators, or illness.

We have some semi wild buns in our RSPCA centre and they could never be released into the wild because they are too dependent on people. I also have a foster who was found wild, and if I released him now, after him being with me for months, he would have lost his natural instincts.

You would be responsible for those buns so would have to take care of all their vet needs, which could be very hard financially and also pshycially if you have to catch them.


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## purplepeacock (Dec 14, 2008)

a lot of the rabbits and squirrels in my area are what i'd consider "semit-tame". they are wild buns....born in the wild and raised in the wild however the old ladies in my apt complex feed them soooo......they literally will come right over to you and even let you pet them. but it's only b/c they are getting so much attention from the old people. i think what irish bunny means is by taking some buns like mine that are tame-wild and transplanting them. if there wasn't an ocean between us irish bunny i'd gladly give you some buns from my yard. they are very overpopulated here. i'm sure some of them would love to go to a place where they weren't all scrounging for food. and once they realize that you feed them they'll keep coming. it sounds like the buns in your area became extincted due to overhunting. so you'd be doing more like preservation work---gettting them back in the wild. and since at one time their were tons in your area they were obviously meant to be there. we do the same thing on Long Island, NY with the bird population. certain birds are becomming extinct so we set up areas in the wild to bring them back. i think the idea is cool.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Dec 14, 2008)

And what would these bunnies eat? 

Sure, they're not tame, but they're still not actual wild rabbits. Domestic rabbits are a whole different species away from wild rabbits - hence why wild rabbits and domestic rabbits can't breed together (well they can, but no babies will result).

What happens if these rabbits get a life-threatening illness and pass it on to your rabbits? Are you prepared to take them to the vet? What if one of the rabbits breeds with your rabbits? 

There are so many risks, even though the rabbits aren't actually wild. I have cottontails where I live, and I'm even cautious about them. Yes, they're cute. But with more rabbits, you have the greater chance of disease spread, etc. 

Emily


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

*Flashy wrote: *


> Well, you didn't make that clear, however I still think that if a bun has been in captivity, unless it has been raised and taught the skills that are needed to survive, then I don't see how you would have happy, healthy buns. I completely agree with Emily too in that if there are not rabbits there, there is a reason for it, and that is probably predators, or illness.
> 
> We have some semi wild buns in our RSPCA centre and they could never be released into the wild because they are too dependent on people. I also have a foster who was found wild, and if I released him now, after him being with me for months, he would have lost his natural instincts.
> 
> You would be responsible for those buns so would have to take care of all their vet needs, which could be very hard financially and also pshycially if you have to catch them.


The bunnies I'd be getting parent's would have been born wild. So they know how to survive, like I said before there are none because they were wiped out by hunters. Of course I'd be taking care of them, I'd be actually saving some of them because my uncle eats some of them. My uncle is really into nature and is a wildlife ranger and he thinks it's a good idea, I didn't get a chance to ask him much about it though. It would never get to hundreds of rabbits because we have foxes. How would I get them to stick around?


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Dec 14, 2008)

*purplepeacock wrote: *


> it sounds like the buns in your area became extincted due to overhunting. so you'd be doing more like preservation work---gettting them back in the wild. and since at one time their were tons in your area they were obviously meant to be there.



I dont find that preservation work involves taking domestic rabbits and releasing them. Relocate actual wild rabbits, that's preservation. 

Emily


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

*purplepeacock wrote: *


> a lot of the rabbits and squirrels in my area are what i'd consider "semit-tame". they are wild buns....born in the wild and raised in the wild however the old ladies in my apt complex feed them soooo......they literally will come right over to you and even let you pet them. but it's only b/c they are getting so much attention from the old people. i think what irish bunny means is by taking some buns like mine that are tame-wild and transplanting them. if there wasn't an ocean between us irish bunny i'd gladly give you some buns from my yard. they are very overpopulated here. i'm sure some of them would love to go to a place where they weren't all scrounging for food. and once they realize that you feed them they'll keep coming. it sounds like the buns in your area became extincted due to overhunting. so you'd be doing more like preservation work---gettting them back in the wild. and since at one time their were tons in your area they were obviously meant to be there. we do the same thing on Long Island, NY with the bird population. certain birds are becomming extinct so we set up areas in the wild to bring them back. i think the idea is cool.


That's it exactly! BlueSkysRabbitry- Of course I'd feed them and they'd feed themselves like they do now, my uncle doesn't feed them. Their wild, If I kept them as pets they would die from stress.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Dec 14, 2008)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> *purplepeacock wrote: *
> 
> 
> > a lot of the rabbits and squirrels in my area are what i'd consider "semit-tame". they are wild buns....born in the wild and raised in the wild however the old ladies in my apt complex feed them soooo......they literally will come right over to you and even let you pet them. but it's only b/c they are getting so much attention from the old people. i think what irish bunny means is by taking some buns like mine that are tame-wild and transplanting them. if there wasn't an ocean between us irish bunny i'd gladly give you some buns from my yard. they are very overpopulated here. i'm sure some of them would love to go to a place where they weren't all scrounging for food. and once they realize that you feed them they'll keep coming. it sounds like the buns in your area became extincted due to overhunting. so you'd be doing more like preservation work---gettting them back in the wild. and since at one time their were tons in your area they were obviously meant to be there. we do the same thing on Long Island, NY with the bird population. certain birds are becomming extinct so we set up areas in the wild to bring them back. i think the idea is cool.
> ...



I think you're missing my and Flashy's points here.....

Emily


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## undergunfire (Dec 14, 2008)

What your uncle is doing and what you are wanting to do is extremely irresponsible. Those "wild" rabbits are the SAME rabbits that your "pet" rabbits are, except those "wild" rabbits are really just not tamed.

Want to release feral bunnies? Put up a very secure fence with a net cover over it, cement the ground way below the fence so the bunnies can't dig out, and SPAY AND NEUTER.

I can't believe anyone would think what your uncle does is "okay".


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## Happi Bun (Dec 14, 2008)

*BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *


> What happens if these rabbits get a life-threatening illness and pass it on to your rabbits? Are you prepared to take them to the vet? What if one of the rabbits breeds with your rabbits?
> 
> Emily


That's what I'm wondering. :?


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

*BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *


> *purplepeacock wrote: *
> 
> 
> > it sounds like the buns in your area became extincted due to overhunting. so you'd be doing more like preservation work---gettting them back in the wild. and since at one time their were tons in your area they were obviously meant to be there.
> ...


Again, they are *not *domestic, their grandparents were domestic, and they weren't even tame so my uncle, a wildlife ranger,let them go. Do you suggest I put them in hutches and let them die of stress?


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Dec 14, 2008)

*Happi Bun wrote: *


> *BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *
> 
> 
> > What happens if these rabbits get a life-threatening illness and pass it on to your rabbits? Are you prepared to take them to the vet? What if one of the rabbits breeds with your rabbits?
> ...



Exactly. I know i would never run that risk, even if the rabbits in my yard were domestic and had been released. Not only could they pass something along to my rabbits, they could pass it on to other wildlife, and get other diseases that haven't even been found in certain places - such as Myxi. 

Emily


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Dec 14, 2008)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> *BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *purplepeacock wrote: *
> ...


Once again, you're missing my point. 

They ARE domestic. Domestic doesn't have to mean tame. It means that they are not the same species as actual wild rabbits! They are still domestic, even if they're feral/not tame. 

You don't call feral cats non-domestic, do you? No. Because they're a different species of cat. 

Emily


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## undergunfire (Dec 14, 2008)

Are rabbits protected in Ireland under abuse laws and such? If so, then something should be done about what your uncle is doing. I'd consider it abuse and dumping of pets, to be honest.


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## Flashy (Dec 14, 2008)

No one has suggested putting them in hutches, that was your suggestion, and you're right, not a good one, but a rabbit safe enclosure/garden/area, would be perfect, or, even a hutch run combo. I am sure that many people would support that becuase that sounds like a very responsible and caring way to help them.

Domestic rabbits, even if the babies are born in the wild, still inherit domestic genes, and whilst essentially they are the same, they have different personalities and different needs from 100% wild rabbits that have been wild for generations.


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## tonyshuman (Dec 14, 2008)

I don't think releasing rabbits that came from domestic stock is responsible at all. Domesticated rabbits have been bred for years and have had food, water, and protection provided to them by humans. They have lost the instincts of a wild rabbit to get food and water, and to escape from predators. These cute coat colors can make them very easy for predators to find as well. In addition, the rabbits that need to be released to repopulate an area with a species that has been hunted out need to be the exact same type of rabbit that was there earlier, not a domestic rabbit. Also, the task of repopulating an area needs to be carried out by scientists who know what they're doing, not the general public. Releasing rabbits in the way you suggest is just like releasing cats to have a feral cat population. Feral rabbits may be closer to the natural species than feral cats, but they can still cause problems and are much more vulnerable to predators. It sounds like an unhappy life for an animal that is not equipped to handle the stresses of being wild, and possibly a problem (what if this feral population got out of control?) for those who live around. Please do not do this. Domestic animals are meant to be domestic, they have been bred for hundreds of years to live closely with humans. They cannot survive on their own and releasing them will in no way recoup those lost due to overhunting.


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

I would take them to the vet, my rabbits are getting spayed/neuteured so they can't breed. They'll get mxyi vaccines. Of course I don't agree with what he did at the beginning, letting out pet rabbits but they obviously have learned to survive in the wild, have been doing so for 2 years.


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## undergunfire (Dec 14, 2008)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> I would take them to the vet, my rabbits are getting spayed/neuteured so they can't breed. They'll get mxyi vaccines. Of course I don't agree with what he did at the beginning, letting out pet rabbits but they obviously have learned to survive in the wild, have been doing so for 2 years.



Well, these non-tamed rabbits would become your PETS..if you took them in. Does that mean they will get Myxi vacs AND be spayed/neutered....just like your beloved pet rabbits?

If not, what a selfish thing...


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## purplepeacock (Dec 14, 2008)

*BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *


> *purplepeacock wrote: *
> 
> 
> > it sounds like the buns in your area became extincted due to overhunting. so you'd be doing more like preservation work---gettting them back in the wild. and since at one time their were tons in your area they were obviously meant to be there.
> ...


EMILY---that's what i'm talking about. the buns by my apt ARE wild. they've never been domesticated. it would be like me taking a bunch from my yard and taking them to the next town to live in the wild and just giving them extra protection and provision in their new environment. I never said anything about putting domestic rabbits in the wild.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Dec 14, 2008)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> I would take them to the vet, my rabbits are getting spayed/neuteured so they can't breed. They'll get mxyi vaccines. Of course I don't agree with what he did at the beginning, letting out pet rabbits but they obviously have learned to survive in the wild, have been doing so for 2 years.



And how do you plan to pay for all that? I'd like to wonder what your parents have to say about this, afterall, I'm sure they'll be the ones paying the vet $$ bills. 

Two years isn't that long to have learned to survive in the wild. I'm sure they still get scared at some points. 

What would you be feeding them? Pellets? How would they get their nutrition, hay, etc.? 

Emily


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

*BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *


> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I would take them to the vet, my rabbits are getting spayed/neuteured so they can't breed. They'll get mxyi vaccines. Of course I don't agree with what he did at the beginning, letting out pet rabbits but they obviously have learned to survive in the wild, have been doing so for 2 years.
> ...


How does a wild rabbit get nutrition? My uncle doesn't feed them you know. Also, the rabbits I would be getting are* born* in the wild, their parents were born in the wild. I'm just thinking about it ye know, it's not definite. I'm researching it is all. I could leave them at my uncles so he can eat them.


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## purplepeacock (Dec 14, 2008)

ok before everyone starts fighting with each other lets just say that the rabbits irishbunny planned on putting in the wild maybe aren't the best choice for the wild. 

irishbunny maybe you would talk to someone with a refuge and find out what you can do to get the wild bunnies (that are already wild) to come back into your area. i'm not sure how you would go about doing this so you'd have to find an expect on the subject but there has to be something. then you're not taking the kinda wild kinda tame buns and putting them at risk.

does anybody else on here have any suggestions on how she can do this.....again this is just more like coaxing already wild bunnies to repopulate her area this is NOT putting domestic ones in the wild.


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## undergunfire (Dec 14, 2008)

The rabbits AREN'T wild! They are domestics!

To be honest, being eaten by your Uncle would probably be just as bad as leaving them in the wild to fend for themselves.


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## Flashy (Dec 14, 2008)

PP what an ACE idea. I would suggest contacting wildlife rehabbers in the area and talking to them and see what they say.

ETA, if the bunnies are being humanely killed and have a good quality of life while they are alive, then I PERSONALLY, don't see a problem with them being eaten, but that's just me, don't jump on me for saying that.


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

My uncleis a wildlife ranger, a respected one. I'll talk to him properly on New Years, this won't happen until summer. Their his rabbits.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Dec 14, 2008)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> *BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *irishbunny wrote: *
> ...



I'm not sure how wild rabbits get nutrition, but these aren't wild rabbits you're talking about releasing. They're domestic, yes, born in the wild, but still domestic. Can't you understand that domestic rabbits and wild rabbits are totally a different species? Domestic rabbits like the ones you're talking about are feral - not wild. 

You would need to provide these rabbits with pellets, water and hay. 2 meals a day at least.....are your parents up to providing for these costs, added on with your own rabbits? What happens when there gets to be too many to care for/feed or it gets to expensive? 

You really should think about this further. You're not looking into how much it would cost and the risks you're taking with your own rabbits. 

I also agree 100% with Amy. 

By the way, how could your uncle get away with this if he's a wild life ranger? Surely he would know if it's illegal or not, which I think it is. 

Emily


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## purplepeacock (Dec 14, 2008)

*Flashy wrote: *


> PP what an ACE idea. I would suggest contacting wildlife rehabbers in the area and talking to them and see what they say.
> 
> ETA, if the bunnies are being humanely killed and have a good quality of life while they are alive, then I PERSONALLY, don't see a problem with them being eaten, but that's just me, don't jump on me for saying that.


bunny actually tastes quite good...lol....i wouldn't eat my liffey but if i'm served some unknowing bun....well it's too late anyway he is already cooked....why waste a good meal...lol


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

*BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *


> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *
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You do know they have the same dietry needs right? It's not going to cost much, I don't look after every hare that hops into my garden, and no it's not illegal to let your bunnies live in your grden, he didn't dump them.


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## kherrmann3 (Dec 14, 2008)

I am probably going to tick someone off by posting this. If the parents are "wild" (domestic bunnies set free and have been surviving on their own), and they are in a protected area (fenced in garden), I don't see much of a problem. There could be a disease transfer, and that is all I can think of. Have you thought of live-trapping some of your uncle's rabbits and relocating them near you? You would have to set up an area where they could find food, water and shelter. 

The may not be "wild" rabbits, but I believe they would be considered feral. Cats and dogs that escape and turn wild over a few generations are considered feral animals, and I think this word is better than using "wild". 

Aren't all domestic breeds from a "common ancestor"? I thought it was some form of European rabbit.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Dec 14, 2008)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> *BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *irishbunny wrote: *
> ...



Uhm yeah, that's what I'm saying. They have the same dietary needs <Right there, that tells you that they ARE domestic, not wild! Feral. Domestic. It is going to cost much! How much does it cost you right now to feed your rabbits? 

It's not illegal to let them live in the garden, but you're not doing that. You're saying your going to take DOMESTIC rabbits and RELEASE them into the "wild". That's just what Amy said "dumping pets." Illegal. 

Call up your wildlife ranger Uncle and talk to him about this...Heck, call up your local SPCA, wildlife refuge, police station, agriculture centre, whomever is in charge of laws that restrain this and ask them if it's illegal. I bet you my bottom-dollar it is. 

Emily


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## Flashy (Dec 14, 2008)

^I mentioned about a secure area for them, but that was shot down, so from the sounds of it they wouldn't be in a protected area. I personally think a rabbit safe, protected area would be perfect.

They do all decend from the european wild buns, but they have also lost the skils that they need to be wild, and have gained other skills instead, so they don't have the necessaries for being successfully wild (presumably including colour, but Grace hasn't said the colour, so I'm not sure).

I do think though that with the right work there is a possibility for these buns to become more human friendly and more pet like (and I can say that due to my knwoledge of Roger, but only Roger) given they have domestic heritage. Maybe that might be a better thing to do? Try to make them friendlier and then have them in a safe area where you can interact with them?


ETA, my post was in response to kherrmann3 (And ?I had to check how to spell your name lol)


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

*BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *


> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *
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Emily, I ment wild rabbits and domestic have the same dietry needs.


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## kherrmann3 (Dec 14, 2008)

*Flashy wrote: *


> ^I mentioned about a secure area for them, but that was shot down, so from the sounds of it they wouldn't be in a protected area. I personally think a rabbit safe, protected area would be perfect.
> 
> They do all decend from the european wild buns, but they have also lost the skils that they need to be wild, and have gained other skills instead, so they don't have the necessaries for being successfully wild (presumably including colour, but Grace hasn't said the colour, so I'm not sure).
> 
> ...


Ahh, then I wouldn't suggest doing it (if they aren't in a fenced-in garden). I would be considered inhumane to law enforcement (no matter how happy they appear). It is also illegal. That's why certain US states have bans on certain pets due to people releasing them. Think about rabbits in Australia. There is an introduction gone terribly wrong.


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

Flashy- I wasn't shooting down your advice, it's just when people are shooting posts at you left, right and centre it's difficult to reply to everything. I'm reading everything and trying to reply.


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

I could do the pen thing but it wouldn't be very big, wouldn't that be unfair to rabbits who are used to going where they want?


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## kherrmann3 (Dec 14, 2008)

I would just say that the bunnies should be left where they are, and don't release them. Look into your local laws online. Leave reintroducing rabbits up to the officials who's job it is to do that.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Dec 14, 2008)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> I could do the pen thing but it wouldn't be very big, wouldn't that be unfair to rabbits who are used to going where they want?


It would be unfair either way.


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

*kherrmann3 wrote: *


> I would just say that the bunnies should be left where they are, and don't release them. Look into your local laws online. Leave reintroducing rabbits up to the officials who's job it is to do that.


But they are already realeased, and no one realeases rabbits here, not near me anyway, I feel sorry for the rabbits with my uncle.


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

*BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *


> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I could do the pen thing but it wouldn't be very big, wouldn't that be unfair to rabbits who are used to going where they want?
> ...


It's not unfair either way when their happy not in captivity.


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

Sooo what to do...Put them in small enclosure? Realease them in my garden? Leave in uncle's garden where they'll be eaten?


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## kherrmann3 (Dec 14, 2008)

Like I said before, I would check with your local laws first. There can be heavy fines for that sort of thing. What would you do if some neighborhood kid thought it was funny to start shooting the rabbits with pellet guns, house cats left outside realize there is another food source out there, or local dogs take up chase? There is a lot to be brought into account. I don't think it would be responsible to have a little colony in your area unless you can have them fenced in a garden somewhere, away from harm.


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## pumpkinhead (Dec 14, 2008)

*kherrmann3 wrote: *


> Ahh, then I wouldn't suggest doing it (if they aren't in a fenced-in garden). I would be considered inhumane to law enforcement (no matter how happy they appear). It is also illegal. That's why certain US states have bans on certain pets due to people releasing them. Think about rabbits in Australia. There is an introduction gone terribly wrong.


Yeah, this whole thread just rankles to me, being Australian. Get a bunch of rabbits and release them into your yard?! What?! We have huge problems with feral animals. Feral cats, dogs, horses, camels and of course rabbits. Rabbits as pets are banned in Queensland, and if you own a property you're legally obliged to cull rabbits. 

If you release a domesticated strain into the wild, that's what it is -- a feral animal that will compete with actual wild, native animals for food, habitat, water. 

If you are planning on getting the rabbits all neutered, that's one thing, but the situation with your uncle worries me, because those feral rabbits breeding away in there could easily escape. They might be enclosed in his yard, but rabbit warrens can run underground for some distance and could easily open up somewhere else. It doesn't sound like he exactly keeps tabs on them.

I don't know, the whole thing just sounds like a bad idea. Keep your pets as pets and try to preserve what little is left of our world's wild creatures and habitats. If you want to rescue some of your uncle's rabbits, get them fixed and build a large rabbit run for them with a wire base buried under a layer of earth so they can't get out, and you can care for them more easily.


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## kherrmann3 (Dec 14, 2008)

*pumpkinhead wrote: *


> Feral cats, dogs, horses, *camels* and of course rabbits.


Sorry to go off topic, but CAMELS!? :shock:


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

Don't get me wrong I don't agree with them being left out in the first place, but what's done is done, I had no part to play in that. My uncles garden isn't enclosed. I'm just thinking about them. Also rabbits were here before, great source of food for foxes until all killed so it wouldn't be a ''forgien body''.


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## werecatrising (Dec 14, 2008)

I have a few "wild" domestic rabbits. They are rabbits that were dumped and left on their own for awhile. I bought a chain link dog kennel for them. It has wire underneath so the can't dig out. It is covered to keep out predators, rain, etc. It has misters for the summer. I give them lots of hay to burrow in. They are very happy. They get fed, are spayed/neutered, and will receive vet care if needed. They are not "tame"though. They are streesed by my presence. They will let me sit and watch them but hide at the other end. I just let them be and they are happy.


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

I like the idea of an enclosure, I'll have to see how big I can build it. I will feel terrible putting them in though.


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## kherrmann3 (Dec 14, 2008)

If you made it like a large dog kennel (the kind they have around here for large hunting dogs?) and planted some safe shrubs in the enclosure, I bet they would be happy as can be. They might be a little upset at first, but I think they would get over it. It would be better for them, even if they don't realize it.


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

Ya, I'll talk to my parents tomorrow, this won't be till summer anyway. I have lot's of trees around my house, you know the christmas tree kind. I might be able to build an enclosure around that.


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## werecatrising (Dec 14, 2008)

Here is a photo of mine for an example.


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## gentle giants (Dec 14, 2008)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> Don't get me wrong I don't agree with them being left out in the first place, but what's done is done, I had no part to play in that. My uncles garden isn't enclosed. I'm just thinking about them. Also rabbits were here before, great source of food for foxes until all killed so it wouldn't be a ''forgien body''.


If you don't agree with them being left out, why would you add to the the problem? I believe you said you were planning on getting them spayed/neutered and vaccines, right? How are you planning on doing that with rabbits you can't catch or handle? Live traps won't work more than once. And your last sentence here jsut ticked me off. "Great source of food for foxes"? So it upsets you that your uncle eats them, but you wouldn't mind if foxes do it? I bet your uncle is a lot more humane about it than the fox is.


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

*gentle giants wrote: *


> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Don't get me wrong I don't agree with them being left out in the first place, but what's done is done, I had no part to play in that. My uncles garden isn't enclosed. I'm just thinking about them. Also rabbits were here before, great source of food for foxes until all killed so it wouldn't be a ''forgien body''.
> ...


Your getting me wrong, I didn't agree with my uncle letting the original rabbits out in the first place, but their wild or feral or whatever way you want to put it now. I ment the rabbits that were here before were a great source of food for the foxes, foxes don't come around my house because of my dog.


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

werecatrising- your enclosure is nice, I'd be hoping to put a top on mine, make it bigger and more natural since that's what these are used to.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Dec 14, 2008)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> *gentle giants wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *irishbunny wrote: *
> ...



If you didn't agree with -him- letting them out in the first place, then why are you going to do it? And you DO have a part to play in it, since you're considering it. 

Even if you do keep them in an enclosure, why do you want to do that? There must be some reason for you to do so....why not just get another PET rabbit? One that is actually tame.....

Emily


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## undergunfire (Dec 14, 2008)

Your dog chases off foxes while there is no food source around. What if the bunnies venture off a bit and its just too late....they become a foxes lunch. Also, how is your dog going to do with rabbits loose in the yard?

I suggest doing what werecatrising has done, if you are seriously going to do this. It will be much safer for all. Make it "natural" for the rabbits, and they will be happy.

I would also suggest SOME HOW catching the bunnies and getting ONE SEX, if that is possible...if you are not able to take them to the vet to get speutered.


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

*BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *


> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *gentle giants wrote: *
> ...


Please stop repeating yourself and attacking me! Like I told you already.. the rabbits he let out were TAME never in the wild, not used to it, then I didn't agree with it. The babies are now UN-TAME, used to the wild, able to fend forthemselves, I'd prefer if they were but aren't! Why I'd keep non-pet material rabbits? There is more to the beauty of rabbits then keeping them in cages. I'd personally sit for hours watching rabbits in a natural style enclosure, you can enjoy rabbits in other ways then breeding and peting them.


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> Your dog chases off foxes while there is no food source around. What if the bunnies venture off a bit and its just too late....they become a foxes lunch. Also, how is your dog going to do with rabbits loose in the yard?
> 
> I suggest doing what werecatrising has done, if you are seriously going to do this. It will be much safer for all. Make it "natural" for the rabbits, and they will be happy.
> 
> I would also suggest SOME HOW catching the bunnies and getting ONE SEX, if that is possible...if you are not able to take them to the vet to get speutered.


The dog is trained to chase foxes and is trusted around my rabbits at all times.


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## Happi Bun (Dec 14, 2008)

onder: This sounds mean, but without natural predators they will overpopulate extremely fast (which isn't good for other native wildlife) since rabbits breed like... well rabbits.


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

*Happi Bun wrote: *


> onder: This sounds mean, but without natural predators they will overpopulate extremely fast (which isn't good for other native wildlife) since rabbits breed like... well rabbits.


Ya some people find that mean, but it's what keeps balance.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Dec 14, 2008)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> *BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *irishbunny wrote: *
> ...



I'm not repeating myself. What I said in that was totally different. And I'm not attacking you, no one is! 

Once again, you're not understanding my questions...........god knows you'll just do what you want anyway.....

Emily


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## NZminilops (Dec 14, 2008)

The US/Canadian memembers might not remember that wild rabbits in the UK/Aust/NZ CAN and Do mate with domestic rabbits. They are the same species.


If you can't spay or neuter all the feral domestics, and there are a few wild ones around that do actually mate with them, you're going to introduce colours other than agouti in the wild rabbit populations. These colours are no good for hiding from predators. That is my main concern.

I have a feral domestic rabbit, he/she lives in my back yard. Not my rabbit but I've shut it in the yard. It doesn't like pellets and wont eat them and lives on grass etc. It's very happy and does lots of binkies, but we don't have foxes here, so I can't say how happy or safe rabbits in the same situation would be there.


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## W5Skittles (Dec 14, 2008)

if you take a couple of 'wild' rabbits from your uncle they will get stressed being in a new environment and will probably try and find there way home wild rabbits live together and often dont wonder far from their warren so i think it may be unfair if you take a couple of rabbits from your uncle who are relaxed and feel fine where they are and dump them ina strange area :?

I dont know if ireland is effected but do yous get Myxi and VHD over there? VHD is extremely contagious and 'wild' rabbits are easily effected meaning your buns would be passed this disease aswell which does cause death! theres also stuff like E.culiculi which again is contagious 

you need to think about these rabbits and your own before your own wants,have a long hardthink and decide what is best for them and not for you.


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

*BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *


> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *
> ...


What like you when you breed your doe that was too old even though you were advised not to and put her life at risk?


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## JadeIcing (Dec 14, 2008)

Ok what it comes down to is that until she speaks to her parents and uncle there isn't much she can do. Untill she does and can provide us with more information. 

People keep in mind that she doesn't agree with what was done. Give her ideas but hold back on the attacks.Because yes that it is what it is looking like. If your going to post try and keep it postive.She is trying to make it better. 

For the members in the USA please keep in mind that the laws are different. Also there IS places like this in the USA.


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

Thank you for summing it up!


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Dec 14, 2008)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> *BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *irishbunny wrote: *
> ...




Im seriously about done with this.


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## Happi Bun (Dec 14, 2008)

> What like you when you breed your doe that was too old even though you were advised not to and put her life at risk?


Totally irrelevant and inappropriate.:shame


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## undergunfire (Dec 14, 2008)

*Happi Bun wrote: *


> > What like you when you breed your doe that was too old even though you were advised not to and put her life at risk?
> 
> 
> Totally irrelevant and inappropriate.:shame


Especially when Emily has LEARNED from her mistake.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Dec 14, 2008)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> *Happi Bun wrote: *
> 
> 
> > > What like you when you breed your doe that was too old even though you were advised not to and put her life at risk?
> ...



Thank you, Amy  

Emily


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

Well I don't think she has the right to say ''I'll do what I want'' when I was obviously trying to take advice about the enclosure which is difficult when someone is shooting questions at you.

ETA: I do apologize though, I lostmy temper


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Dec 14, 2008)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> Well I don't think she has the right to say ''I'll do what I want'' when I was obviously trying to take advice about the enclosure which is difficult when someone is shooting questions at you.




And ya know what, those are my opinions. Im asking questions because I'd like to know more. 

You had no right to say what you did, either. 

ETA: Apology not accepted. :?

Emily


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

Ok, us fighting about it isn't going to help, I apologized, I'm not here to argue or make enemies. I'm here because I love animals and rabbits, any info on this topic is appreciated, particularly on the enclosure idea.


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## pumpkinhead (Dec 14, 2008)

*kherrmann3 wrote: *


> *pumpkinhead wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Feral cats, dogs, horses, *camels* and of course rabbits.
> ...


yep, no joke at all

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_wniqaV8f3OU/RnOPzh58KjI/AAAAAAAAAXs/utNTvyRSP60/IMG_0201.jpg


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

*pumpkinhead wrote: *


> *kherrmann3 wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *pumpkinhead wrote: *
> ...


Omg hahaha!


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## tonyshuman (Dec 14, 2008)

With fixed and vaccinated bunnies that are already feral, it could be a nice way for them to live out their lives. I would think you'd need a big fence, at least 6ft tall to keep dogs and foxes from jumping in, and buried at least 2 feet deep to prevent bunnies from digging out. You'd also need several little hutches that they could hang out in for protection from the weather and serve as places to hide from birds of prey. A sanctuary near my parents' house has done this for some 500+ feral domestics that were rescued from a hoarding situation. Pics of their setup are here:
http://www.rabbitsanctuary.org/residents/reno_500_002.php

They wouldn't need a lot of extra food, but eventually they'd run out of dandelions and grass in there, especially in the winter, so you'd need to give them some greens once in a while. I'd also reccomend getting them bales of horse hay to eat. You could also have garden plots in there in the summer, fence them off for a little while while the plants start to grow (lettuce, cabbage, broccoli, etc), and then let the bunnies in there once the plants are big enough to eat. 

I think that if you wanted to give some feral domestics a nice place to live out their lives, this would be great. I wouldn't, however, allow them in a place where they could get out onto others' property, or where dogs, cats, or natural predators could get in, or where the wild bunnies (if there are any left) could mate with them. They would all have to be fixed (not just the boys--need to prevent possible wild-rabbit matings through the fence walls) and vaccinated, which would be a substantial expense, however. In addition, you'd have to check on them daily, to look for injuries (from fights) so that you could stop fights and/or get injured bunnies to the vet. But it would be good for them and could be very fun for you. I think people just got confused about the idea of setting bunnies free--it's more of a sanctuary, i think, that you're trying to set up for some already feral bunnies.


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## irishbunny (Dec 14, 2008)

Wow thanks just what I was looking for, veggie idea is really good! By the way that's alot of bunnies in the pic lol!


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## Flashy (Dec 15, 2008)

What happened to your plan to become a breeder?

To be honest, as harsh as this sounds, If you cannot provide a safe enclosure then I would just leave them with your uncle. They are not your problem nor responsibility, however, what you could do is help him work out a more responsible arrangement for them if you wanted to educate him.

My Roger was found as a wild rabbit and acted very much as a wild rabbit, and he now lives in a 5ft by 5ft pen with two girl friends and is very happy, so a rabbit who is used to unlimited area, etc, can be happy in a smaller area. I did have to work really intensively with him though.


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## irishbunny (Dec 15, 2008)

my plans for being are breeder are still there if i can find some good rabbits but with no shows i'd only be breeding for pets so we'll see during the summer. Can't see why i can't do both, my parents like rabbits too and don't mind paying, i have the whole summer for planning and building enclosures and getting sheds so we'll see during the summer, this isn'definiate just an idea, i always do a project during the summer so the rabbit shed is a definate if my dad gets his money.


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## Flashy (Dec 15, 2008)

I would suggest focusing on one plan at a time because if you try and implement them both at the same time you might find yourself very overwhelmed and the rabbits might suffer because of that, which obviously none of us want. Maybe focus on your breeding idea, and then when you have got that stable and know you can cope with that, look further into your other options.


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## pamnock (Dec 15, 2008)

*BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *


> Can't you understand that domestic rabbits and wild rabbits are totally a different species? Domestic rabbits like the ones you're talking about are feral - not wild.
> 
> Emily



The wild rabbits in the UK are the same exact species as our domestic rabbits. Wild rabbits in the US are not.

Before relocating a feral species, I would check with your local laws. At one time, the exploding population of feral rabbits in Ireland was a problem (the rabbits are not a native species), so it may not be wise to risk letting some get free. There may also be a risk of diseases transmissible to humans.



Pam


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## irishbunny (Dec 15, 2008)

ya we'll see which one works out. if i can find good rabbits and i need to do a bit more research into both of them, like a said it's just an idea 
not a set thing


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## Luv-bunniz (Dec 15, 2008)

2wzs rdc4wqgfjki b lyhgb t64ew3sd1``````` <Sorry parrot was on the keyboard, anyway. I dont know if this has been pointed out but since falconry is legal over there then you absolutely SHOULNT "release" these rabbits. Even if you cant pick them up a hawk WILL, no matter what. You say that they dont run off when you walk up to them but you cant get really close, well a hawk will! Believe me, to put it bluntly I know a few guys with hawks who would love you to do it! why? because its an easy target for a juvi. bird. IMO its stupid (obviously not ignorant :? ) to even think about releasing them. What will you gain from this? if you really want to help rabbits in the wild talk to a few rehab centres or conservation people and see what they say about relocating some rabbits to your garden to start a new colony.


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## bat42072 (Dec 15, 2008)

I am not trying to attack you... and this is just my opinion... I think the ferral rabbits would be better off left where they are at due to the stress factor... they are not used to beng handled and I would be afraid they would end up dying from the stress or really injuring themselves when the panic... And that is all I am going to say on this matter...


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## purplepeacock (Dec 15, 2008)

Well let me just say that i think you did the right thing by starting this thread to get advice. but since NO ONE on here is an animal rights activist in ireland or has a degree in something that would pertain to this thread none of us know FOR SURE what you need to do. you need to go to someone in your area with that knowledge. the experts will know. animals are animals and their insticts are strong. how many of us have trouble with behavior in our buns due to their natural insticts to dig and burrow and chew and mark territory. you could make a type of refuge in your yard. the thing you need to consider is that soon you'll go off to school and move out on your own. if you start this then your parents will have to follow thru on it. so i don't know if you want to do this in your own yard. you're better off seeing if there is a refuge somewhere in your area that you can volunteer at and start a project like this there if they let you.

now ya'll please don't jump down on me but i think this thread has gotten completely out of hand. irish bunny brought up an idea. she's not even 100% she's going to do it.....it was only a thought. and there are it seems many negatives to her starting this. i know some people on here are angry and it shows in your posts. but she was only asking for advice. can we just not sound so angry when we reply to her. there is so much valuable information on this thread and i've learned a lot....i had no idea about the issue in australia.....but when there are so many angry posts flying around this thread is becomming bitter and childish. and someone might skip over it b/c they don't want to read all the BS.....and there is so much to learn from this thread.

please guys....can we just take a vow now to be encouraging. we don't have to agree and i think all the cons to this were already pointed out MANY times.....so lets move on with positive suggestions please ::::::begging::::::::


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## Flashy (Dec 15, 2008)

^In answer to that I think a lot of people have suggested and said relevant and helpful stuff to Grace, but it has got lost/ignored because she focused on the more negative stuff (which is often human nature, so that's not a critism). I'm hoping Grace will read through the thread at a later date and it will prove useful to her.

My best suggestion still is to talk to your most local wildlife rehabber Gracebecause they will have intimate knowledge of your laws, area, etc.


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## irishbunny (Dec 15, 2008)

We don't have a wildlife rehab centre , no one cares for wildlife here,I didn't think I ignored stuff, I taught I'd answered everything, it is hard to answer everything at once. Hmm..Oh I didn't say that I wouldn't be realeaseing them into the wild, the large enclosure seems a better idea.If I do it we'll see in *6 months*. It's much easier to reply when there aren't all these nippy little questions, gets overwhelming. The breeding thing will probably not go ahead, I was thinking about it the other day and I'll be moving out in 2 years so it would be unfair to me and the buns since I'd have to sell them all. I really want to become a breeder but I have to think about the future and not just now.My parents wouldn't have time and knowledgefor caring for breeding buns while I'm gone during the week, just home on weekends, I'm disapointed but can't be selfish and put my wants first. They could manage the sanctuary though, easily, my mother is a housewive so she could feed them, check on them. My dad could separate fighters, sickeys etc. I'll be home weekends and can clean, do repairs, other jobs etc. Like I said just an idea *not definate. *


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## purplepeacock (Dec 15, 2008)

*Flashy wrote: *


> ^In answer to that I think a lot of people have suggested and said relevant and helpful stuff to Grace, but it has got lost/ignored because she focused on the more negative stuff (which is often human nature, so that's not a critism). I'm hoping Grace will read through the thread at a later date and it will prove useful to her.
> 
> My best suggestion still is to talk to your most local wildlife rehabber Gracebecause they will have intimate knowledge of your laws, area, etc.


Flashy you are so right. i think you said it better than me. that's why i said there is so much for all of us to learn. but it's hard when you get people being snippy and then you feel like you have to be on the defense all the time. i just felt that i had to say something about it. there was only a few people that i felt were a little unfair and not being productive to this thread so it was pointed more to them even though i listed it as a general comment so that no one would be directly singled out. and to be honest the person that made the most fuss and was the rudest i've seen their postings on other controversial threads and they always react the same way. there are times that the negative needs to be pointed out...like putting domesticated rabbits in the wild. but there is a nice way of going about it. and like i said ..... most of the people on here were nice about it...however it only takes one person to spoil a whole thread. anyways, flashy i've read a lot of posts of yours and find your insight very beneficial.


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## irishbunny (Dec 15, 2008)

Thank you, you put it really well! Flashy, I have great respect for you, I think everyone does, you'd be the first I'd come to here with a problem


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## Sabine (Dec 15, 2008)

I have Coco and magic in the garden all day and they go back into their hutch in the evening. As long is the garden is break out safe it should be alright. It sort of depends on the rabbit too. Lint, after she escaped isn't allowed to roam the garden anymore but the other two are fine. They have escaped but always come back


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Dec 15, 2008)

*purplepeacock wrote: *


> Well let me just say that i think you did the right thing by starting this thread to get advice. but since NO ONE on here is an animal rights activist in ireland or has a degree in something that would pertain to this thread none of us know FOR SURE what you need to do. you need to go to someone in your area with that knowledge. the experts will know. animals are animals and their insticts are strong. how many of us have trouble with behavior in our buns due to their natural insticts to dig and burrow and chew and mark territory. you could make a type of refuge in your yard. the thing you need to consider is that soon you'll go off to school and move out on your own. if you start this then your parents will have to follow thru on it. so i don't know if you want to do this in your own yard. you're better off seeing if there is a refuge somewhere in your area that you can volunteer at and start a project like this there if they let you.
> 
> now ya'll please don't jump down on me but i think this thread has gotten completely out of hand. irish bunny brought up an idea. she's not even 100% she's going to do it.....it was only a thought. and there are it seems many negatives to her starting this. i know some people on here are angry and it shows in your posts. but she was only asking for advice. can we just not sound so angry when we reply to her. there is so much valuable information on this thread and i've learned a lot....i had no idea about the issue in australia.....but when there are so many angry posts flying around this thread is becomming bitter and childish. and someone might skip over it b/c they don't want to read all the BS.....and there is so much to learn from this thread.
> 
> please guys....can we just take a vow now to be encouraging. we don't have to agree and i think all the cons to this were already pointed out MANY times.....so lets move on with positive suggestions please ::::::begging::::::::



I'm not trying to start anything, but I do know that you were talking about me. (Which is NOT cool) :grumpy:I just want to clear this up: I was not trying to sound angry, and I dont think I did, ya'll just took it the worng way cuz it wasn't what ya'll wanted to hear. Irishbunny asked for advice and she got negative suggestions and that p*ssed her off, because it wasn't what she wanted to hear. Not everyone's opinions on here are going to be what she wants to hear.  

People have a right to think what they think and you can't make them think differently. I'm not going to change my opinions for the good of someone else.

Emily


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## Sabine (Dec 15, 2008)

I just managed to read through the entire thread now and I wouldn't have wanted to be in Grace's shoes having to defend herself constantly against some rather unfounded attacks. It makes me scared ever to post anything controversial


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Dec 15, 2008)

*Sabine wrote: *


> I just managed to read through the entire thread now and I wouldn't have wanted to be in Grace's shoes having to defend herself constantly against some rather unfounded attacks. It makes me scared ever to post anything controversial



Once again I wasn't attacking her. 
She asked for opinions she didn't like what she got, she assumed people were attacking her. 

Emily


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## Sabine (Dec 15, 2008)

I do know what attacking means, thank you very much and if it wasn't close to midnight in this part of the world I'd pull out all the bits from the thread that showed you weren't listening to what Grace had to say at all and just seemed to have your own agenda... Things can be rather different in other countries and you can't just generalize


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Dec 15, 2008)

*Sabine wrote: *


> I do know what attacking means, thank you very much and if it wasn't close to midnight in this part of the world I'd pull out all the bits from the thread that showed you weren't listening to what Grace had to say at all and just seemed to have your own agenda... Things can be rather different in other countries and you can't just generalize



I was listening to Grace. She wasn't considering everything else though. And I wasnot attacking her.

Opinions aren't always what someone's gonna want to hear - their's positive and negative. I wasn't the only one being negative and ya'll are acting like I was!

She was being rude to me too, you dont know the messages she's sent me. 

Emily


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## NorthernAutumn (Dec 15, 2008)

Walk away from the computer, girl 
No one mentioned you by name.
Your reaction suggests that you feel like that you have to defend yourself.

If you don't feel like you did something wrong, don't react. When you make aggressive comments like that, you are making yourself look even more unreasonable.

If you feel as you were too aggressive in this thread, apologize, and move on. If not, let it drop.

Y'all can always use the "ignore" button if it gets to be too much, btw


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## Sabine (Dec 15, 2008)

*BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote: *


> *Sabine wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I do know what attacking means, thank you very much and if it wasn't close to midnight in this part of the world I'd pull out all the bits from the thread that showed you weren't listening to what Grace had to say at all and just seemed to have your own agenda... Things can be rather different in other countries and you can't just generalize
> ...


If you read back over my first post I wasn't talking about you attacking her but about her being attacked. I wasn't even looking much at the names reading through the thread. This is about Grace trying to do something essentially good and just looking for advice from people. And calling her irresponsible when she is only going through something in her mind is rather unfair


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Dec 15, 2008)

*NorthernAutumn wrote: *


> Walk away from the computer, girl
> No one mentioned you by name.
> Your reaction suggests that you feel like that you have to defend yourself.
> 
> ...



Thanks Autumn. The reason I'm defending myself is cause people are jumping me. Yes, there no name mentioned, but Im not dumb as to know I'm not the one being discussed. 

I wasn't not aggressive at all....... I dont owe anyone an apology. And I didn't do anything wrong.


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Dec 15, 2008)




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## NorthernAutumn (Dec 15, 2008)

I think that if you were to change the tone of your writing to be more positive and balanced, it would come across as less aggressive, Emily.

I personally find some of your comments to be a tad brisk. I'm sure that this could be overcome by taking off the caps lock.. Caps generally look unfriendly.

That being said, all members should remember that their ignore buttons are there for judicious usage in unmanagable situations.


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## Sabine (Dec 15, 2008)

Never mind I was talking about GRACE not about YOU. But I think it's time for the ignore button for me too. Thanks Northern Autumn.


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## JadeIcing (Dec 15, 2008)

Ok I come back from a dentist appt to this! Don't make me use my nanny voice. Thats it time out. Your punishment is to go pet a bunny or two. If you only have one bunny pet them twice. 

Please everyone let go of the other stuff. Be adult about this. If someone, anyone can not contribute in a positive way don't post. You would be wasting your time in this thread when you could be posting in another that would benefit someone. Or petting a bunny.


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## gentle giants (Dec 16, 2008)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> my plans for being are breeder are still there if i can find some good rabbits but with no shows i'd only be breeding for pets so we'll see during the summer.


I am not trying to attack here or anything, but I have to say-why?? If you are only breeding for pets, why are you doing it? I can see mabye having a litter or even two for the fun of having the babies, but to be just a breeder of pets on a regular basis? I will guarantee you will not only not make any money with them, you will lose it.


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## MyLOVEABLES!! (Dec 16, 2008)

NorthernAutumn wrote:


> .
> 
> That being said, all members should remember that their ignore buttons are there for judicious usage in unmanagable situations.



:? how does the ignore button work? like hwat does it do?

thnx.. sorry for asking something taht isnt relevant, please dont be mad.


x


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## Sabine (Dec 16, 2008)

*gentle giants wrote: *


> *irishbunny wrote: *
> 
> 
> > my plans for being are breeder are still there if i can find some good rabbits but with no shows i'd only be breeding for pets so we'll see during the summer.
> ...


I'm not trying to answer for irishbunny or anything but as we are both from Ireland I feel I need to explain something: We don't have rabbit clubs, rabbit shows or a network of breeders OR rabbit shelters in this country. Most breeders would be what you would call "back yard" breeders. Good or bad, but this type of breeding may not have resulted in a lot of "quality" rabbits here but at least not led to an overpopulation. Breeding would probably be more like a hobby and I can't imagine Grace was trying to make a lot of money out of it. But correct me if I'm wrong


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## Sabine (Dec 16, 2008)

*MyLOVEABLES!! wrote: *


> NorthernAutumn wrote:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...


I just tried to use the ignore button on your post to try it out. The message dissappears in your thread and it says "ignored user" but you can still quote it as you can see. Strange. I don't know if that means all your messages will be ignored
I can tell if you post again
P.S. There's also an unignore button then if you change your mind. Quite handy


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## Luv-bunniz (Dec 16, 2008)

I just want to say, my last post wasnt meant in a mean way I was making a point of ease of predators getting them. But anyway, if I am honest I think with transporting them if they are feral then it will stress them out more then its worth, and if you really want to start a small "colony" in an enclosure then I would start out with some 8-10 week old rabbits raised for pets to reduce stress when travelling or having to be caught up. But instead, how about building a nice sized enclosure for your two rabbits you have now?  Then maybe adding a few more to them later on


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## irishbunny (Dec 16, 2008)

emily, you can disagree with me without being mean about it and offering good info if you have it, like others did. thank you sabine for the post about breeding it was exactly what i would have said. my bunnies now have a 14ft by 6ft run and hopefully there shed will be up by summer and they'll have half of it in an enclosure, there tame pet rabbits so i would be worried about giving them any more space


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## Flashy (Dec 16, 2008)

Tame rabbits can also have a lot of space, provided, like has already been said, it is rabbit safe on all levels  This is obviously easier if your buns come to you, or are easy to shepherd inside at night. I can think of a couple of people I adopted rabbits to and they have free run of a very rabbit safe garden and a LOVELY life


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## irishbunny (Dec 16, 2008)

ya..i spend most of my time chasing mine around their enclosure even though it't not totally huge, they just flick their legs at me lol. I was talking to an Irish shelter worker who have 15 rabbits who aren't well socialized living in a big outdoor enclosure, she said they get rabbits in every so often who were left in hutches and ignored for their whole lifes and they are always trying to find them homes in peoples gardens (enclosed) and enclosures.


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## Sabine (Dec 16, 2008)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> ya..i spend most of my time chasing mine around their enclosure even though it't not totally huge, they just flick their legs at me lol. I was talking to an Irish shelter worker who have 15 rabbits who aren't well socialized living in a big outdoor enclosure, she said they get rabbits in every so often who were left in hutches and ignored for their whole lifes and they are always trying to find them homes in peoples gardens (enclosed) and enclosures.


I used to have huge problems getting the rabbits in at night with them running circles around me in the enclosure. But since we have the "bunny stick" to shepard them in at night, no more chasing, they run home once they see us with the stick. I think that could work in an enclosure too if you put a little outdoor house or a smaller run by the doors of the large enclosure. Then you can pick them up easier out of there.


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## irishbunny (Dec 16, 2008)

It's not the chasing around part I'd be thinking about, more the fact of them being tame pets, I want to keep them as pets and stay close to them. I'm sure they wouldn't stay so tame if they were let run in an enclosure all the time with lot's of bunny friends. I was talking to my parents about it again last night and we agreed it would be stressful to the buns, especially being caught. I'm not put off the idea though, I think the enclosure would really benefit rescue rabbits, like Sabine's Raylann who were neglected and unloved and deserve a happy life.


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## Luv-bunniz (Dec 16, 2008)

irishbunny wrote:


> It's not the chasing around part I'd be thinking about, more the fact of them being tame pets, I want to keep them as pets and stay close to them. I'm sure they wouldn't stay so tame if they were let run in an enclosure all the time with lot's of bunny friends. I was talking to my parents about it again last night and we agreed it would be stressful to the buns, especially being caught. I'm not put off the idea though, I think the enclosure would really benefit rescue rabbits, like Sabine's Raylann who were neglected and unloved and deserve a happy life.



If you still handle them then no that wont happen. What would make the difference between a big and small enclosure? not much really. I can see why you are concerned though, but if you handle them and maybe even train them to a certain sound when getting treats so you can just call them in for treats and pick them up like that, or herd them into a box.


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## NorthernAutumn (Dec 16, 2008)

Maybe you're moving more towards the development of a rabbit shelter?


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## irishbunny (Dec 16, 2008)

They have normal cages too you see, enclosure is just for playtime at weekends. I'd be so scared of losing my babies to other buns lol. I don't think they'd let me handle them that much, they put up quite a fit in the small enclosure as it is. So*if* I did build one I don't think I would introduce them in.


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## irishbunny (Dec 16, 2008)

*NorthernAutumn wrote: *


> Maybe you're moving more towards the development of a rabbit shelter?


No not a rabbit shelter, we don't need any here. Just re-homeing 2-4 buns that aren't pet material. I wouldn't take rabbits in from the general public.


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## DyemondRabbitry (Dec 16, 2008)

Ok- can we all just start over here? I mean... we're all friends, right? We came together with one thing in common- we all love bunnies and want to do the right thing for them. 

Hmmm...let's see...where do we start?

I've known people who have raised rabbits in a large, outdoor enclosure or run before without problems. I'm not sure how well it would really work but that's besides the point. My father has a gamebird farm and we raise them in secure pens about 100 by 200 (smallest). We have NEVER had a predator break into these and we live in an area where coyote, fox and bear are very well populated. The pens are not hard to construct and I have put rabbits in similar cages, just much smaller, that are on the ground and have never had a predator attack. Now, I know you're going to say we're lucky but with over 10 years consecutively and having many years before that I think that says something about the safety. 

I have also bred in these outdoor runs- as far as disease goes- there was NO difference. This member is not talking about making the rabbits fend for themselves in the wild- just about having a community pen. Why is this not fine? Maybe she could consider only females or neutered males if she doesn't want an overpopulation. I so glad nobody attacked for the uncle eating the rabbits. As a ranger, he probably sees no problem with it and it's a personal choice.

As far as keeping them around...well... I'd still suggest an enclosure. They do tend to stick around but you can't have any way of controlling the population this way. When we had our old rabbitry (a refurb'd trailer) hauled away (thought we were done with bunnies) the place that took it actually called later as some bunnies had escaped and had been living in the trailer. These rabbits lived at that place for years without ever being fed. Now please note, at that time we had over 300 head of New Zealand Whites! 

These rabbits still need their pellets, hay and veggies like everybody else! Designate a container, or several, for these and keep LOTS of water available- maybe an automatic water (they're not that hard even to build yourself). You also need to have an area where you can quarantine any rabbits who start "snotting" and acting under the weather. An automatic water system would help you in this case because it's easy to clean and he can give the rest a preventative action. Also, if you become a breeder you will NEED to have quarantines between these "run" animals and your others- not because "they might carry more deadly disease" but because they are simply different. We must quarantine (scrub down in bleach water, change boots and never use the same equipment) between different ages of the same type of bird that are raised in the same situations simply because they ARE different.

Lastly, I do believe that we should watch our attitudes on this board. We all have to understand where the others are coming from. I can say it is completely acceptable to butcher rabbits for human consumption but I understand that this is mainly a PET forum with pet owners as well as other breeders. I know that I would be thought badly of on here so we don't speak of these things. On the other hand, it is very unkind to tell people what they do or how they keep is ignorant, irresponsible or simply unethical. I know, we could just be having a bad day when we read a post that hits us the wrong way... but read through you're reply and ask yourself- "do I want to be spoken to this way?" or "could somebody take this the wrong way?" before we hit that post button. Anyhow, we are all still friends... just gets a bit out of hand sometimes.


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## slavetoabunny (Dec 16, 2008)

Thank you for making some very good points DyemondRabbitry. We are a very friendly community here and want to stay that way. :grouphug After all, aren't we all here because we care about the bunnies?


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## irishbunny (Dec 16, 2008)

Thanks for your posts guys


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## polly (Dec 16, 2008)

Personally I feel these rabbits have gone ferral and being that way moving them would be very stressful! you mentioned earlier in the thread that they are not enclosed in your uncles garden in that respect I reckon you could say that he is not the only one to help stop overpopulation!! I would expect predators to be killing some off as well, hence keeping them under control.

As for Ireland not having a rabbit problem after some of the things that have been said I can't see how you don't to be perfectly honest you talk about one of Sabines being from a neglected home and of a shelter worker with 15 unwanted rabbits that now all live in a pen/run. Perhaps its not publicised enough or perhaps people just leave their unwanted rabbits stuck in a hutch till they pass but thats the same problem as everywhere else :? 

Best thing you could do is leave the rabbits where they are that is life as they know it. 
I am not trying to be harsh just answering from the things that have been posted


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## irishbunny (Dec 16, 2008)

The rabbits they have have been coming in over a space of a couple years, they look after them well in the enclosure so are reluctant to rehome them, unless they find a good home. I also think there could be alot of rabbits stuck in hutches.


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## Sabine (Dec 16, 2008)

The shelter irishbunny mentioned is the first one I've come across so far as is Raylann the first rabbit from a background of neglect. I guess her former owners didn't actually think they were neglecting her. I'd still debate that we have a problem with overpopulation here but surely there are rabbits not looked after properly. People aren't properly educated about rabbits I guess and pet shops aren't helping. Decreasing the amount of rabbits available wouldn't solve the problem but rather making more information available to prospective pet owners


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## DyemondRabbitry (Dec 16, 2008)

I am completely of the mind that if you have a pet rabbit - it should be spayed or neutered. Let's expand on that- if you have a "pet" it should be spayed or neutered. Now, our female dogs are not spayed- my male was neutered though. We also have a female barn cat who is not spayed buy our males are neutered. Too many pet animals just creates more animals in shelters. Please note the use of "pet".


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## BlueCamasRabbitry (Dec 16, 2008)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> emily, you can disagree with me without being mean about it and offering good info if you have it, like others did.



I was *not* being mean  You thought I was because I wasn't saying what you wanted to hear; and that's just too bad. You're not always going to hear what you want. People will disagree (and as you already *know*, I *do *have experience with this, so don't say I don't. Listen to me for once) with you more often than not, and if you don't listen to what they're saying, you may regret it (trust me ). Yes, I do know what you're planning to do now. Can I honestly say I agree with it? Well, I dunno. Maybe I do, maybe I don't, but you don't need to freak out and tell me I'm wrong for what I believe in. Taking feral rabbits and putting them in a large enclosure is fine, but letting them breed and all that, I do disagree with, and so do others, not just me. I wasn't the one who was attacking, it's not my fault you felt like I was, and no, I'm not apologizing, because I have nothing to apologize for. I, however, *was *being attacked, by people who thought I was the one attacking.

Like I've said a dozen times, you asked for opinions and that's what you got. Not everyone is going to give you the opinions that you want to hear. 

ETA: This is my final post here. 

Emily


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## FallingStar (Dec 16, 2008)

Emily, I really think that you should just stop posting on this subject and both of you should just stop PMing eachother. Because Emily, I think you were being a little bit too aggressive in your postings. Even though you were giving you say on the subject _(all of us on here have a different look/say on *all* subjects), _you may could of done it a little more nicely. I'm not trying to attack you, but I'm just saying. I know you give great information, and that you have alot of knowledge on rabbits, and alot of people can learn from you. 

And I bet that Grace knew that people were going to say what she didn't want to here. Because (like I said before) everyone has different opinions. Whenever I post on here, I know that people are going to say something I disagree with, and I take their responses, and take them as something I can learn from, and not like they are making fun/attacking me. So if someone posts something you don't like, ignore it or just take as something you can learn from. 

_"I wasn't not aggressive at all....... I dont owe anyone an apology. And I didn't do anything wrong._ "

That is what you said Emily, and I think that you do owe Grace an apology, and both of you should say sorry because both of you did your fair share in "attacking" eachother. But that's juist my 2 cents. You can take it in, or ignore it.



Karlee


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## gentle giants (Dec 16, 2008)

*Sabine wrote: *


> *gentle giants wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *irishbunny wrote: *
> ...


Ok, that didn't really answer my question though. I have a feeling that the problem in your country is not lack of rabbits, but lack of advertising and organization between shelters/rescues. And evenif you don't have an overpopulation problem now, you will soon. Of three members I know of from Ireland, there are two of you planning on adding to the population. And even if you only breed a couple of does once or twice a year, that is still anywhere from 12 to16 more rabbits "on the market" so to speak. Just from one of you. And how many more babies will those babies have?


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## purplepeacock (Dec 16, 2008)

*FallingStar wrote: *


> Emily, I really think that you should just stop posting on this subject and both of you should just stop PMing eachother. Because Emily, I think you were being a little bit too aggressive in your postings. Even though you were giving you say on the subject _(all of us on here have a different look/say on *all* subjects), _you may could of done it a little more nicely. I'm not trying to attack you, but I'm just saying. I know you give great information, and that you have alot of knowledge on rabbits, and alot of people can learn from you.
> 
> And I bet that Grace knew that people were going to say what she didn't want to here. Because (like I said before) everyone has different opinions. Whenever I post on here, I know that people are going to say something I disagree with, and I take their responses, and take them as something I can learn from, and not like they are making fun/attacking me. So if someone posts something you don't like, ignore it or just take as something you can learn from.
> 
> ...



emily i know you feel that i was the one attacking you. the point i was trying to make that yes you have a different opinion and that's fine but it's not what you say rather HOW you say it. i've read other posts of yours and i know you mean well and want to help but you do come accross as vicious in some of them. you have a lot of knowledge and have lots of experience.....you would be a great teacher one day but i'm afraid that you'll never get anyone to listen to you or take what yousay seriously unless you learn how to word things differently. my momma used to tell me that you catch more flies with honey and not vinegar. and that's true. it's all in how you word things. now i know you feel that i attacked you. i really just wanted to firmly say that the negative comments were not condusive to sorting out the issue at hand. i still feel that this thread is a great teaching tool and has so much information however now it's just turned into pure drama. another thing to remember emily is that not everyone is going to agree with YOUR opinion either. and you tend to get very upset when you post something and someone doesn't agree with you. 

anyways......lets get this thread back on track.....any other suggestions or pics on how to create an outdoor bun paradise???


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## irishbunny (Dec 17, 2008)

I apologized to Emily a couple of pages ago, last I heard I was getting no apology back and my apology wasn't accepted. I'm moving on now, this topic is drifting further and further away from the point. Any good advice is lost in all this drama but I'd like to let the people who posted, good, solid advice that I have read back over the topic,read it, took it in and hope to use it in the future, thank you guys. The amount of actual, decent advice could fit in just a page or two. If anyone has anymore advice to post feelfree :dude:


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## Sabine (Dec 17, 2008)

*gentle giants wrote: *


> *Sabine wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *gentle giants wrote: *
> ...


This is beginning to be another thread in this thread but I still want to add my thoughts: True all three of us from ireland have plans of breeding adding to the population. But better us than more ignorant breeders who we could possibly push out of the business. If we could build up a sort of good relationship with reputable pet shops they may realize it's better for business to get their rabbits from people that have a good knowledge about the breed, the sex, their care etc... and with education maybe in future they will only deal with breeders they can trust rather than encouraging people who just put two bunnies together and hope for the best.


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## gentle giants (Dec 17, 2008)

You are planning on selling them to pet stores? Where anyone can go in and buy them on a whim, without any kind of screening process or education?Almost allof the rabbits I get handed over to me by their owners (and usually in pretty rough shape) are from people who bought them in petstores. At least if you sold them directly yourself, you would know who they were going too, you could talk to them about proper feeding and care and the like.


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## Sabine (Dec 17, 2008)

*gentle giants wrote: *


> You are planning on selling them to pet stores? Where anyone can go in and buy them on a whim, without any kind of screening process or education?Almost allof the rabbits I get handed over to me by their owners (and usually in pretty rough shape) are from people who bought them in petstores. At least if you sold them directly yourself, you would know who they were going too, you could talk to them about proper feeding and care and the like.


You need to understand people here in general don't buy from breeders. Anyone looking for a rabbit will go to a pet shop. Mistakenly people believe they get a better quality pet and have some come back rather than bying from some private person advertising. I think initially the pet shops need to be involved in the education. Ideally I will sell them privately but don't expect much response. I know two pet shops at least that wouldn't even sell a goldfish to an unsuitable owner and I have established contacts with them. One of them is even owned by a breeder of Dutch rabbits.


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## irishbunny (Dec 17, 2008)

*gentle giants wrote: *


> You are planning on selling them to pet stores? Where anyone can go in and buy them on a whim, without any kind of screening process or education?Almost allof the rabbits I get handed over to me by their owners (and usually in pretty rough shape) are from people who bought them in petstores. At least if you sold them directly yourself, you would know who they were going too, you could talk to them about proper feeding and care and the like.


Personally, *I *wouldn't sell to petshops but Sabine is a good, smart person who loves her bunnies and I highly doubt she'd sell them to a petstore unless she's sure they are decent.


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## Sabine (Dec 17, 2008)

*irishbunny wrote: *


> *gentle giants wrote: *
> 
> 
> > You are planning on selling them to pet stores? Where anyone can go in and buy them on a whim, without any kind of screening process or education?Almost allof the rabbits I get handed over to me by their owners (and usually in pretty rough shape) are from people who bought them in petstores. At least if you sold them directly yourself, you would know who they were going too, you could talk to them about proper feeding and care and the like.
> ...


Thanks,Grace, Just another thought I wanted to add.
I do understand where people are coming from warning against adding to the rabbit population. But where are Irish pet owners to get their rabbits from? UK, the US? Wouldn't it be better to get people involved in breeding that at least are interested in breeding good quality pets and can pass on valid information about rabbits. Or we could just leave the field to random breeders...
P.S. I haven't really decided how to find homes for the rabbits I may breed but wouldn't rule out a reputable pet shop if private advertising fails


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## purplepeacock (Dec 17, 2008)

I think things are just different in different countries. in the US it's the opposite. you go to a breeder when you're a serious pet wanter.....ok that's sound funny but you get the idea of what i mean. the pet shops get sold to the families that come in for cat food and the kids whine and cry and throw themselves on the floor begging for a pet bunny...hampster....fish.....whatever and the parents are so stupid they buy it to shut the kid up. that's why pet shops have a negative connotation in our country. then all the pets end up on craigslist. maybe you chica's over in ireland can advertise education classes. make a deal with the pet stores that you're even willing to offer free education classes to their customers. they would be more willing to get buns from you b/c you're offering a free perk.....and then you'd get to educate the new bun owners. you could advertise in the newspapers if craigslist isn't real popular in ireland. maybe the petstores would let you advertise in their shops. they might even let you hold little classes at the store......then it gets people in the store for the classes so you could educate and the store owners are happy b/c the people will probably buy some supplies while they are there. just a thought.


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## Sabine (Dec 18, 2008)

*purplepeacock wrote: *


> I think things are just different in different countries. in the US it's the opposite. you go to a breeder when you're a serious pet wanter.....ok that's sound funny but you get the idea of what i mean. the pet shops get sold to the families that come in for cat food and the kids whine and cry and throw themselves on the floor begging for a pet bunny...hampster....fish.....whatever and the parents are so stupid they buy it to shut the kid up. that's why pet shops have a negative connotation in our country. then all the pets end up on craigslist. maybe you chica's over in ireland can advertise education classes. make a deal with the pet stores that you're even willing to offer free education classes to their customers. they would be more willing to get buns from you b/c you're offering a free perk.....and then you'd get to educate the new bun owners. you could advertise in the newspapers if craigslist isn't real popular in ireland. maybe the petstores would let you advertise in their shops. they might even let you hold little classes at the store......then it gets people in the store for the classes so you could educate and the store owners are happy b/c the people will probably buy some supplies while they are there. just a thought.


I think these are good thoughts. As it is I'm into this one particular pet shop at least once a week and have a good chat with the store manager and some other staff who own chinchillas, rabbits, guinea pigs about rabbits, their care etc... They are really interestedand they even started stocking a particular brand of timothy hay when I pointed out it was available in Ireland. They are a chain store though and dependent on their head office in Dublin.I am sure they would let me advertise in the store if I had a litter to sell. I just feel that I would catch prospective pet owners in the pet shops first. When I witnessed rabbits being sold in that shop people seemed to have come in specifically to buy the rabbit and often buy a hutch too. In fact I know of several shops that wouldn't sell the rabbit without a cage or hutch. But there are crummy ones toothat don't care what they stock and who buys it


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## purplepeacock (Dec 18, 2008)

*Sabine wrote: *


> *purplepeacock wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I think things are just different in different countries. in the US it's the opposite. you go to a breeder when you're a serious pet wanter.....ok that's sound funny but you get the idea of what i mean. the pet shops get sold to the families that come in for cat food and the kids whine and cry and throw themselves on the floor begging for a pet bunny...hampster....fish.....whatever and the parents are so stupid they buy it to shut the kid up. that's why pet shops have a negative connotation in our country. then all the pets end up on craigslist. maybe you chica's over in ireland can advertise education classes. make a deal with the pet stores that you're even willing to offer free education classes to their customers. they would be more willing to get buns from you b/c you're offering a free perk.....and then you'd get to educate the new bun owners. you could advertise in the newspapers if craigslist isn't real popular in ireland. maybe the petstores would let you advertise in their shops. they might even let you hold little classes at the store......then it gets people in the store for the classes so you could educate and the store owners are happy b/c the people will probably buy some supplies while they are there. just a thought.
> ...


i don't know if they would let you advertise your rabbits in the pet shop. but they have to get their rabbits from somewhere. so if you offer them a good deal PLUS the free education class it makes their shop look good and knowledgable. so they will most likely choose you to get their buns from. the only thing you couldn't do is teach them about the nic cages.....the store will want to push their products but that's ok. you're already helping the store get quality hay in. if you direct people to this site they will learn so much about cages etc....on their own. and in all honesty it's good to have a crappy pet store cage for transport anyway. so it makes everyone happy. since in ireland people don't buy from house breeders and only pet stores this give you more control over who's buying. and the pet store will probably direct people to you when they come in to ask about a bunny. as long as they make a profit on the bunny and cages etc....they will probably give you freedom in your education classes. you can probably type up your own info packets to give out too.


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## Flashy (Dec 18, 2008)

^If you Sabine (or anyone else) want to direst people to the site I made a leaflet promoting the site about a year ago, it never went up on the forum (don't know why), but I do have it, and do use it, so if anyone wants it so they can reproduce it to hand out, then feel free to PM me.


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## Sabine (Dec 18, 2008)

I'd definately like that. I could even leave a few fliers out even the next time I pass. Thanks


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## irishbunny (Dec 18, 2008)

Sabine, I also find that unless it's a cat or dog, people always go to petshops for their pets, it's nothing like the USA where people havebig rabbitrys with names, the majority of ''breeders'' here got two bunnies, who ended up having babies and they kept breeding and selling to petshops.


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## Sabine (Dec 18, 2008)

I am afraid this is the reality we have to work with and it would be great if a lot of genuine Irish breeders got together and formed some sort of network. At least that if someone starts a rabbitry it could be recognized by some sort of council and certain standards could be applied. I still haven't heard back from those guys in Northern Ireland (BRC)who were going to put me in touch with some contacts in the Republic. The interest doesn't seem to be there or I'm looking in the wrong places


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