# OMG, neutering using rubber bands???



## Bijou (Jan 12, 2009)

I just got off the phone with a lady who has a rabbit and she is going to neuter it by putting rubber bands on his testicles! :shock::shock::shock: She says they take about 3 days to fall off and then all is fine. CAN THIS POSSIBLY BE SAFE? It sounds very very painful to me!


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## Elf Mommy (Jan 12, 2009)

I've never heard of this being done to rabbits. I know it's how they do calves, though.


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## Buneary49 (Jan 12, 2009)

IT NOT SAFE AT ALL,

it a very painful thing to do a rabbit and that poor rabbit will scream bloody murder.

Illegals do this to thier dogs, Trust me a vet is the way to go in having this done.

I kick some one in where it counts to do very very cruel thing to a innocent rabbits.


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## undergunfire (Jan 12, 2009)

A few years ago when my Dad bought me two twin brother goats, the breeder did this to them. I was younger and didn't think anything wrong of it....but I guess it is something very common. If I was smarter, I would have said "No!" to such a thing.

I would call that lady back and provide her on information WHY rubber banding is not a good way to neuter an animal. I am sure there are websites out there that explain why.


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 12, 2009)

Never heard of it with Rabbits but we actually castrate lambs with castration bands. They are smaller and thicker than a rubberband and we have to use a special tool to put them on. I can't imagine a rabbit handling the initial pain well. Lambs tend to cry a bit and then lay down - after a while they are numb but for about 10 minutes they are not happy.


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## undergunfire (Jan 12, 2009)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> Never heard of it with Rabbits but we actually castrate lambs with castration bands. They are smaller and thicker than a rubberband and we have to use a special tool to put them on. I can't imagine a rabbit handling the initial pain well. Lambs tend to cry a bit and then lay down - after a while they are numb but for about 10 minutes they are not happy.



I remember my goats flinching, crying, then passed out asleep after just a little bit.


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## Buneary49 (Jan 12, 2009)

1. because it hurts very very much.

2. it cause Ganguring and serious infections


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## Bijou (Jan 12, 2009)

Yes, just because one CAN ACCOMPLISH it this way does not make it a good idea!


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## undergunfire (Jan 12, 2009)

*Buneary49 wrote: *


> 2. it cause Ganguring and serious infections



This wasn't the case with my goats. Their *goolies* shriveled up and fell off in a few days.

I just don't think it is right to do it to rabbits, who have sensitive skin in the first place.


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## TreasuredFriend (Jan 12, 2009)

personal opinion: It's a cruel thing to ignore/disregard pain in any living creature. Why are humans in today's society neglectful, and feel it's A-okay to think, so what, just another living, breathing body. Cheapest and easiest, and who cares if the "creature" is flinching and crying.

I'll never understand, :twocents

:tears2: Reminds me of the woman who put sick rabbits on dry ice to die.

news item heard tonight, dog found outside frozen in backyard...


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## Buneary49 (Jan 12, 2009)

I perfer to take my buneary to a good vet to have it done.

the poor rabbit's health is danger from having rubberbands on there.

pain, shock, and other problems, not to mention it's cruel and very inhumane and very insane act.

doing that to a rabbit is not showing any kindness or love.


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## kherrmann3 (Jan 13, 2009)

I've heard of people doing this with livestock, but not with house pets. I believe they use rubber bands on some dogs to dock their tails, though. They do use rubber bands to remove extra fingers from humans, as well. If a child is born with polydactyly (pronounced pah-lee-dak-til-lee), they can use a rubber band to remove the extra digit sometimes. The only kind that I know they use this for is an extra "thumb" branchin off of the first thumb. Young organisms don't remember pain when they are little, so it's best to do these things when they are younger, like almost newborns. They don't castrate baby sheep/goats that early, though.


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## Buneary49 (Jan 13, 2009)

*kherrmann3 wrote: *


> I've heard of people doing this with livestock, but not with house pets. I believe they use rubber bands on some dogs to dock their tails, though. They do use rubber bands to remove extra fingers from humans, as well. If a child is born with polydactyly (pronounced pah-lee-dak-til-lee), they can use a rubber band to remove the extra digit sometimes. The only kind that I know they use this for is an extra "thumb" branchin off of the first thumb. Young organisms don't remember pain when they are little, so it's best to do these things when they are younger, like almost newborns. They don't castrate baby sheep/goats that early, though.


But to a inoccent rabbit, it's sick and cruel and very inhumane .


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## kherrmann3 (Jan 13, 2009)

I never said it was right or that I agreed with it.


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 13, 2009)

Unfortunately with livestock like sheep, goats, cattle - they do things in the most humane - but cost effective way. HOWEVER, I had an older lamb who was done that way by the people we bought him from and his castration band didn't work right. We ended up taking him to the vet and having it all fixed up. He was for 4H tho..... it wasn't about money for that --- it's about the show/project.

Also, they do that with Sheep tails too.

It's not something I like. It's not the best method for the animal. I would never do it to a bunny. Can you imagine? OMG Tony would scream! he screamed when he was tattooed. (I imagine the bands feel like getting a tattoo for a time).

Doing the banding is better than what they used to do for them. I remember my grandpa turning baby pigs over in a boot, and using a knife to slice them off.


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## kherrmann3 (Jan 13, 2009)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> Doing the banding is better than what they used to do for them. I remember my grandpa turning baby pigs over in a boot, and using a knife to slice them off.


Wow, you must have had an "interesting" childhood! It's a shame that the most cost-effective ways of castrating livestock seem to be "savage" or cruel. Like you said, though, it's better than what they used to do!


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 13, 2009)

Farming - being around farmers like my grandpa - you see/learn things sometimes you don't want to....... Mom used to have to get the "chickens for dinner"..... 

I've been chased by a big bull.

I've seen kittens stand around and wait for Grandpa to squirt milk from the cow to them... That's so cute! 

Some things made me tough, others made me a big softy.


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## kherrmann3 (Jan 13, 2009)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> I've seen kittens stand around and wait for Grandpa to squirt milk from the cow to them... That's so cute!


That would be adorable! I bet that's one of the ones that made you a softie!


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 13, 2009)

Yeah... They'd lick the milk off their faces - each other's faces and cluster around grandpa. He was a tough old fart and seeing him with those kittens was what made me realize he was pretty sweet and a cool old guy too.


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## paul2641 (Jan 13, 2009)

You would think something like this would be illegal?


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## kherrmann3 (Jan 13, 2009)

*paul2641 wrote: *


> You would think something like this would be illegal?


What? Using rubber bands?

I believe it isn't considered to be cruelty or torture because it is only a short-term discomfort, and it is used to better the animal's health and life. They may only have short lives, but they need to prevent unwanted breeding. Also, I believe they dock tails on sheep to keep the feces from matting to it. I was told that they do it to prevent fly strike on the matted tails.


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## TreasuredFriend (Jan 13, 2009)

BoB and k, I visited my uncle's farm in the 60's and his housemaid used to grab the excess kitties from the farm cats and drown 'em in pails of water. Never forget it when she wanted to show us. Makes a lasting impression. Then the neighbor teen who used to break the legs on frogs and use them as jackknife throwing practice.


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## Happi Bun (Jan 13, 2009)

*TreasuredFriend wrote: *


> BoB and k, I visited my uncle's farm in the 60's and his housemaid used to grab the excess kitties from the farm cats and drown 'em in pails of water. Never forget it when she wanted to show us. Makes a lasting impression. Then the neighbor teen who used to break the legs on frogs and use them as jackknife throwing practice.


My grandma's Mom (they lived in Finland) drowned the excess kittens in the river. 

I definitely think using a rubber band to neuter a rabbit is wrong, especially considering their are better ways. I don't like the fact it's done to farm animals but it seems in that situation its a necessary evil. I know with farm animals it's far more complex than just tossing any old rubber band on though.


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 13, 2009)

Oh those things are awful ..... Let's not talk about that stuff anymore. It really makes me so sick.


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## Leowyldemi (Jan 13, 2009)

my grandpa used to do this for goats too, i thought it was wrong then, no wonder our billy oats were always mean! our nanny goats were always sweet ho.

it really is a barbaric way of doing things,especially since nowadays there are so muchcleaner, safer and less painfulways of doing it,


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## Buneary49 (Jan 13, 2009)

Now you see why the humane soceity tells you to have pets spayed or fixed.

any one seen animal cops on cable or satilite?


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## Bijou (Jan 13, 2009)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> Farming - being around farmers like my grandpa - you see/learn things sometimes you don't want to....... Mom used to have to get the "chickens for dinner".....
> 
> I've been chased by a big bull.
> 
> ...


Awwww! The kitten story just warmed my heart! And yeah, my mom used to have to 'get' the chickens for dinner too.

I still can't wrap my mind around that poor little bunny getting his 'nards tied off. From everything men tell me that is a very sensitive area. Not like a mole or an extra finger.


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## myheart (Jan 13, 2009)

A tiny bit off subject, but still inhumane, in my opinion...

I talked with a woman who is considering having her schnauzer puppy's ears done (cropped). The tail is already done, but that is done within the first two to three days of life. Ears, on the other hand, are done when the puppy has enough weight to be put out for the surgery. Personally, I don't believe it would be much different than having one's own ear sliced to bits in hopes that it fits the "standard" look. I told her that vets no longer want to perform such proceedures, or charge large fees for it, because they would perfer not to do it either because it is inhumane.Besides, the "natural" look is becoming more acceptable in dogs.

myheart


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## Buneary49 (Jan 13, 2009)

That's like making loped ear bunny look like brothers ears stright up.

I say leave well enough alone.


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## pumpkinhead (Jan 13, 2009)

Here in Australia, its illegal to dock tails or crop ears for cosmetic reasons, which is also the case in a lot of countries and a really good thing I believe. It's really quite strange seeing some breeds with their tails on, we've gotten so used to the docked effect, which is terrible when you think about it. My mum has a 9 year old Pembroke Welsh corgi who predates the ban by a few years, so it's odd for me seeing corgis with tails after being so used to seeing him.


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## undergunfire (Jan 13, 2009)

I also don't think it is illegal to castrate live stock using bands. From what I remember, they use very strong rubber bands and there is a special tool that stretches out the rubber band, then you slip the *goolies* in there, then you release the lock and the rubber band closes tightly around the *googlies*. Besides, a lot of ranchers can't possibly bring in hundreds of cattle to be neutered through a quick ground surgery.


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## Ivory (Jan 13, 2009)

I've heard of it being done in rabbits, cats, too. Cats are easy to neuter as they don't require stitches. Heh actually back in his farm boy days before vet school, Dad stuck them in a boot and snipped them that way. They hollered like heck, apparently.

At any rate, it's not advisable to perform in rabbits, but I've heard of it done before.


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## Maureen Las (Jan 13, 2009)

If it was here in Wi (even if we are rural where I am)I think that that this would be deemed a animal cruelty case. I work along with animal control at the shelter and I know that this could not be done to a pet by a person with no knowledge whatsoever.


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## kherrmann3 (Jan 13, 2009)

Were I grew up in Oconomowoc, there are some farms up the highway from where our house was. Some farmers out there did the "slice & spit" technique on sheep. Has anyone seen the sheep sterilizing episode of "Dirty Jobs" with Mike Rowe?


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 13, 2009)

*Buneary49 wrote: *


> That's like making loped ear bunny look like brothers ears stright up.
> 
> I say leave well enough alone.



I completely agree! 

I know people do this ear thing with a few breeds... and my dog had a longer tail stub for an australian shepherd until the breeders (my neighbors) had it docked. We love her nub but I would have loved it regardless!

I love dobermans with long ears! :hearts:


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## Maureen Las (Jan 13, 2009)

I ALSO love doberman with long ears. 



I knew that this type of stuff was done on farms butI didn't think that you could do it to a pet without anesthesia..

isn't that cruelty ???


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 13, 2009)

Yep, I think on domestic animals it would be ruled cruelty.


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## Buneary49 (Jan 14, 2009)

If they keep doing harm to god's creatures than god is going raise cane.

one time ago at the phoenix zoo at 1am in the morning some totaly lame jerk off idoits broke in the rabbit habbit and killed half the rabbits grabbing them by the ears slaming them agaist the wall and breaking the thier backs:bigtears:

I wish I was there kicking thier butts:cry4:


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 14, 2009)

People like that are just a waste of our oxygen is my thought!

I have never understood how anyone could be mean to a bunny!!! 

Even when my son has to sell a sheep I cry. I got so attached to the one who had to go to the vet that it made me so sick when he left! His name was Vanilla and I took him to the vet in a dog crate in my van! LOL! The vet didn't open for a while and I had to drive around with him in the van for about an hour.... "BaaaaBAAAA!" BOY was he stinky! (Sheep smell really bad!) but during that time I really fell in love with the little guy.

We'll probably never sell our goat. She's my girl. She stands on her back legs and threatens to butt me from inside her stall! She's so funny!


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## kherrmann3 (Jan 14, 2009)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> BOY was he stinky! (Sheep smell really bad!) but during that time I really fell in love with the little guy.


Off topic: Are sheep really as stupid as a lot of people make them out to be? My veterinary science teacher in high school owned a sheep farm with her family, and she said that sheep are the dumbest animals that she knows of.

I've also known a woman to say that horses were the dumbest animals alive. I KNOW that one isn't true! She swears to it and owned horses for 30+ years.
I want a goat. Do you think Will would notice one if I hid it in our apartment? :biggrin2:


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 14, 2009)

Oh yeah, sheep are...... well sheep! They follow each other. In Turkey an entire flock jumped off a cliff because the first one fell.

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/07/08/192245.php

They are sometimes a bit smarter than that, but mostly..... yep..... dumb.

Horses are HIGHLY intelligent. They can be dumb. My SIL has a horse that spooked every time she walked into the indoor where the pigstall was in the corner last summer. She knew they were there, she saw them everyday and they are gone now..... she still spooks and nothing is there LOL! She's pretty..... _special._

If she saw when Pokie lifted Lexi as she fell into her stall one day..... she'd know they aren't dumb. They aren't the smartest of animals but they are not sheep by any means.


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## Buneary49 (Jan 14, 2009)

there is 1 strange animal I don't the name of it, but all it does is have sex with all the female critters in it's spieces, it's the hornest critter on earth.


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## furryface (Jan 14, 2009)

my mom's dog is a purebred dobie...his tail was docked in the first couple days of birth...but they left the ears alone....mom never got his ears done...no reason to...he's not a show dog! so he looks like a overgrown mutant Labrador LOL

it's funny when you walk him...everybody wants to say hi to the big doggie until they are told (after being slobbered on and petting him mind you) he's a dobie...then they get all scared! :biggrin2: if he was gonna chomp you, trust me he would have already! (the only danger of that is if you are a cat in "his" yard..then all bets are off)

this is a dangerous dog...sure he is...

he's afraid of a cardboard box! you don't want him in a room? you put the box in the door....he won't go near it!


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## Buneary49 (Jan 14, 2009)

they only get very mean by owners who feed them gun powder in thier dogfood.

a mistreatment.


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 14, 2009)

I love big old oaf of dogs like that! My aunt had a big dobie who sucked on his blankie at night......


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## Buneary49 (Jan 14, 2009)

:shock:AGH Ha ha! ha!!! Ha ha!


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## irishbunny (Jan 14, 2009)

An old lady down the road from me drowned kittens the other day that she found in her shed, we had seen the feral pregnant cat around and told her we would come and take the kittens if the cat had them in her shed but she drowned them anyway.

Farmers can be really cruel, I live in a rural areas and help out on farms alot and every once in awhile I have to help de-horn calves, which ain't pleasant, they put them in a special thing to hold them and use a de-horner,I don't know how to describe it put it's on fire and they stick it on the calves heads to burn out their horns,I hate it because they always go crazy. The farmers couldn't bebothered spending money on any sort of pain meds.

Here, castrating is eitherdone bya vet orweanlings are doneby squeezing their ''bits'' with a squeezer. That rubber-banding soundsvery cruel and painful, I hate it when people couldn't be bothered spending the money to make it more comfortable forthe animal. Rabbit or goat.


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## Buneary49 (Jan 14, 2009)

when they neuter calfs guess where testcles go to ?

becareful when ordering the blueplate spiecals

when going out to eat.:cooking::nerves1


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## golfdiva (Jan 14, 2009)

Aside from all of the above, how *does* one get rubber bands on a rabbits "bits"? I mean, I am barely able to clip Hershey's toenails, how on earth would I rubber band him??

Buneary - I thoughtthey werecalled Rocky Mountain Oysters! lol!


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## Buneary49 (Jan 14, 2009)

Never mind about rubber banding rabbits

but about clipping your bunny's nails they got this new trimmer

it called pettcure, it trims the by gring them to right lenth

they say it safer then cnail clipper.


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 14, 2009)

I want one of those! I need it for my dog. I can do the bunnies ok, I hate it but I can do it. I can't even imagine trying to band them! 

It's not painful after the first few minutes on a goat/sheep. It becomes numb.


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## Buneary49 (Jan 14, 2009)

you order one online by going to pettacure.com

vets think those are a safe nail trimmer


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## kherrmann3 (Jan 14, 2009)

I will warn you about the Peticure and Pedi-Paws; they aren't as awesome as they look. I got one, and it does work pretty good, but I have a problem of it "shooting" the nail back at you if you grind it wrong. This is even just a minute little difference in how the nail hits the grinder. All it is is a dremel drill. They are probably cheaper, too. The noise scares the heck out of the rabbits. I find it faster (and easier) just to clip the nails!


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## Buneary49 (Jan 14, 2009)

and how you calm your bunny to trim the bunny's nail.

yes rocky mountain Oysters known as the blue plate spiecal.

a friend of mine the tastes is so ungodly.


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## irishbunny (Jan 15, 2009)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> I want one of those! I need it for my dog. I can do the bunnies ok, I hate it but I can do it. I can't even imagine trying to band them!
> 
> It's not painful after the first few minutes on a goat/sheep. It becomes numb.


It's still not very humane, stuff like that should be banned along with docking dogs tails.


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 15, 2009)

It's too bad it's not as simple as that.

Farmers work their butts off and don't make enough now...... they couldn't afford to raise animals if they had the medical bills to castrate and stuff.


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## irishbunny (Jan 15, 2009)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> It's too bad it's not as simple as that.
> 
> Farmers work their butts off and don't make enough now...... they couldn't afford to raise animals if they had the medical bills to castrate and stuff.


Ya I know I help out on a farm and they do stuff like cut off cows horns with no pain meds and the animal would be spouting blood, pain meds aren't that expensive and most of the time they don't care about how the animals feel.


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## TreasuredFriend (Jan 15, 2009)

I feel humans should ask themselves those questions.... would they want that stuff done to them with no pain meds?

How are animals oblivious to pain -- ?? -- and what does that say about our species?

More news items; snowmobilers intentionally run over ducks on ice-patched lakes, deer corralled and brutally run down by another pack of snowmobilers. I'd like to round up the (drunken?/discompassionate) snowmobilers and run them down with trains!! There's something WRONG with humans if they are oblivious to pain and suffering. ssd: 

Story on this subject matter: Farmer-classmate noted about cows falling into a pool or body of water like a lake. They attempted to retrieve them. With chains. The classmate kinda joked about how one didn't make it out due to the strangulation of the chain around its neck. LOL. He laughed, and shook it off as kinda funny. very sad... 

:twocents


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## irishbunny (Jan 15, 2009)

*TreasuredFriend wrote: *


> I feel humans should ask themselves those questions.... would they want that stuff done to them with no pain meds?
> 
> How are animals oblivious to pain -- ?? -- and what does that say about our species?
> 
> ...


It's the same here, I don't know about anyother countries but a farmer who loved their animals and showed any sort of passion or care for them would be mocked, they have to put up this hard front and not care about the animals, they have this 'we are bigger and better then them' attitude and don't treat them like beings at all, like they have no feelings and can't feel pain.

I think it's awful the way that farm animals are treated worse then pets and something that is considered cruel to perform on pets is acceptable to do to farm animals, they *both* can feel pain and have feelings.


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## Buneary49 (Jan 15, 2009)

Here in arizona we have a very strict law of cruelity to animals , the arizona humane soceity go out in patrol looking for trouble makers harshing poor animals.

back in Nov 6th 2008 I saw the arizona humane Soceity person calling the police and rescuing a poor pet rabbit.

the guy was kicking the poor rabbit.

Rabbit lovers, animal cruelity is a very very serious crime here in Arizona.

and yes they do check out your pet reptile

they check mine out, lucky my bearded dragon was well feed.


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## Baby Juliet (Jan 16, 2009)

Do you think it's painful?


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## Blue_Star (Jan 16, 2009)

I think in the larger animals it is more practicle because the risk of putting a large animal under anisthesia is so great. which is why even in most major surgeries they prefer to use a local anesthetic rather than let the animal loose total consiousness. However in a small animal such as a rabbit where they can be completely put under using gas I dont see any reason to castrate using a rubber band. and even with large animals when rubber bands are used it should be with the equipment that is intended for that purpose, not just something someone tried at home.


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## Bo B Bunny (Jan 16, 2009)

*



Baby Juliet wrote: 

Do you think it's painful?

Click to expand...

*


THAT is discusting. We would never do that....... removing the link due to the fact I don't want kids watching this........and I can't believe they played that on DIRTY JOBS.

I hope they went after those farmers. Cutting isn't right.



Just for reference: I don't like banding much either, but it's much less painful than other methods (that video) and for a shorter time. It's also more sterile and of course cost effective for the farmer. 

Anyhow, in a perfectworld it wouldn't be so difficult and it would be free to do it in a veterinary setting. There's no good answer to some of this, but it's like the people with animal rights setting free all the rodeo horses one time ..... they were being mistreated :rollseyes The horses ran out of the facility and onto a highway where they were hit and killed and people were injured and killed from the accidents...... 

Rodeo horses LOVE what they do. When horses play, they buck and shake their heads and act all mean...... and Dakota and Pokie actually play "cutting" with us... where they are cutting off a calf from the herd...... it's like a working dog. They love to have jobs and if they don't have it, they seek something to replace it (like chewing up your couch) so you need to play frisbee or fetch or something with them if they aren't working.



NOW, it's a touchy subject and I know none of us are wrong on this! Rabbits are definitely NOT to be banded, I agree...... solet's drop this before someone gets angry with someone else, ok? :hug:


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## Buneary49 (Jan 16, 2009)

please protect innocent rabbits from this cruel and inhumane act.

contact your local humane soceity and report all cruelty to animals


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