# Is 5 Weeks Too Early To Wean ?



## Djakarta (Oct 8, 2006)

When I went in to give the bunnies theirbreakfast, I found absolute chaos in the X pen. They had pulled everybit of newspaper from the litter boxes and shredded it.











I shut them into the cage and cleaned out the pen. Since the paperwasn't clean, I was afraid the babies would be peeing everywhere.Lately they have been very good about peeing only in the litterboxesand I didn't want them to encounter "scented" paper and think that waswhere they should go. 

I added several balls of clean newspaper to give them something to playwith. When I let them back out into the pen, Miranda made a beeline forthe corner by the biggest litterbox. She tugged the box into positionand ran to the other litterbox and began to transfer hay into thecorner.

















After a few loads of hay, she began to collect newspaper. The babieswere intrigued by her behavior and Mocha began following her around.She nipped at Mocha's hindquarters several times. She pulled at the furhard enough to lift Mocha's hindquarter off the ground.

In addition to placing hay and paper, she is aggressively digging atthe carpet. The litterbox sits on top of a carpet remnant. There isindoor/outdoor carpeting under that, then a vinyl carpetrunner pieced with duct tape, then the room's carpet. 

I decided to add another carpet remnant to the area. ( I don't want herto damage the room's carpet, the other layers are more easilyreplaced.) When I tried to coax her into the cage, so I could work inthe pen, sheacted very aggressive toward me, trying to circleme and tugging fiercely at my clothing.

I don't know what to do.

1 Do I separate her from the babies? Aren't they too young to wean?

2 How do I handle her aggression?

3 How do I curtail or redirect her sudden destructive tendencies? Will they abate once she has constructed a nest to her liking?

4 If this is a false pregnancy, should she be spayed now? ( Theoriginal plan was to wait untill the babies were 8 weeks old. They arejust 5 weeks old now.)


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## Starlight Rabbitry (Oct 8, 2006)

If the babies are eating and drinking on theirown, then there is no reason you can't wean them. They shouldbe fine. I would take the mother to a new cage and let thebabies stay in the original one. This makes it less stressfulfor the babies.

Sharon

BTW, the babies are very cute!


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## pamnock (Oct 9, 2006)

Babies do just fine when weaned at 5 weeks ofage. As Sharon mentioned, it is best to remove the doe andkeep the babies in the cage they are used to.

Kits should never be sold younger than 8 weeks of age (due to the stress), but they do very well when weaned earlier.

Pam


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## JAK Rabbitry (Oct 16, 2006)

1 Do I separate her from the babies? Aren't they too young to wean?

I would NOT wean the babies this early. They still need milk and canend up with digestive problems later on in life. They may be fine fornow but it could come back to mess them up quite badly later. Babybunnies have very sensitive systes and taking them off mum's milk waytoo early coudl be a veryvery bad thing. 

2 How do I handle her aggression?
Rabbits are able to store sperm fromt heir first breeding. So it'spossible that even though she was only bred once, she could be pregnantagain. It is also quite possible that she's going through a pseudopregnancy. If this is the case, you will want to get her spayed verysoon. I would say NOW but you don't want to take her away from thekits, and risk something happenign tot hem since she stills needs tonurse them. Give them another 2 weeks. Then look into spaying herimmediately.

3 How do I curtail or redirect her sudden destructive tendencies? Willthey abate once she has constructed a nest to her liking? 

I think this is justa phase that will pass.


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## pamnock (Oct 16, 2006)

*JAK Rabbitry wrote: *


> 2 How do I handle her aggression?
> Rabbits are able to store sperm fromt heir first breeding. So it'spossible that even though she was only bred once, she could be pregnantagain.




Absolutely not true. The fertile life of a rabbit sperm isapproximatley 30-32 hours. While some may remain alive for ashort time longer, their motility and ability to fertilize an egg islost after the 30-32 hour time period.



Pam


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## Michaela (Oct 18, 2006)

*JAK Rabbitry wrote: *


> 2 How do I handle her aggression?
> Rabbits are able to store sperm fromt heir first breeding. So it'spossible that even though she was only bred once, she could be pregnantagain. It is also quite possible that she's going through a pseudopregnancy. If this is the case, you will want to get her spayed verysoon. I would say NOW but you don't want to take her away from thekits, and risk something happenign tot hem since she stills needs tonurse them. Give them another 2 weeks. Then look into spaying herimmediately.




No offence, but that sounds ridiculous to me! Has something like that ever happened to you?:shock:

Michaela:brownbunny


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## pamnock (Oct 18, 2006)

> I would NOT wean the babies this early. They still need milk and canend up with digestive problems later on in life. They may be fine fornow but it could come back to mess them up quite badly later. Babybunnies have very sensitive systes and taking them off mum's milk waytoo early coudl be a veryvery bad thing.





I just wanted to point out that there is no scientific support for themyth thatearly weanedkitshave digestiveproblems later in life. In certain circumstances where I havehad to wean kits at 3 weeks, they have done just fine.Scientific studies have shown that early weaning _may_ result inslight temporary growth decrease, but early weaned kits quickly catchup to their late weaned counterparts and show no long lasting illeffects from early weaning.

From *"Rabbit Production" - Litters may be weaned as early as 28 daysof age*. Milk production is declining by then, and theyoung are consuming solid feed well. Feed is used moreefficiently if it is eaten directly by the fryers rather than eaten bythe doe and converted to milk. There is a stress at weaning,which may cause the fryers to go off feed and lose weight for a fewdays. 

(Note - We have not had a problem with weaning stress if the kits are left in their familiar cage and the doe removed).

While the ancestors of our domestic rabbit weaned their kits by onemonth, breeders have found that it is more efficient to leave kits withthe doe until they are old enough to withstand the stress of being sold(6-8 weeks). This negates the need for extra cages, movingkits, and feeding/watering additional cages.



There is no question that bunnies can thrive when weaned at 5 weeks of age.



Pam


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## JAK Rabbitry (Oct 18, 2006)

I know it sounds absolutely absurd! I don't blame people for not believing me. 
I did know an instance when this happend. A friend of mine had a muttlop....awesome brood doe. She usually had 8-10 babies at a time. Thenhe'd give hera break for many months and she'd throw another litter of8 or 9. And she took care of ALL of them. Very rarely did she everloose a baby. 

He had to keep her at his store, as he was goign through a divorce andbunnies weren't allowed at his apartment. Carmel was kept in a largeindoor cage (witha padlock on it) in the store as she took care of somevery young kits. We kept towels draped over the cage to give herprivacya nd a lock on the doors to keep peopel from opening it anddisturbing her. 

Whe nher babies were still extremely young....she gae birth! We wereable to feed and water her from the outside of the cage, the owenr wasthe only one with a key. She hadn't been bred again. He was angry,tryign to figure out his bred his bunny. But no one would dare have doneanything to hurt Carmel, she was the store favorite and we knew better,also we didn't have the key. After callinga bunch of vets, theydiscovered the sperm storage thing.

Another one of my bunnies also had a thing with big litters, and aftershe had just had a litter, she started makign an est again. I was likewtf, RAbbit. 

So I calledt he vet and asked her if the sperm storeage thing waspossible, she said she wasn't sure. But she looked it up in somemedical books and lo and behold...rabbits have the ability. 

Id id my own research online and have found similar evidence inrabbits, skates..and there were like, 2 or 3 other animals. Also therewere lists and names of common uteran deformities in those studiedanimals that allowed for some extreme births.... like having a doubleuterus and only one cervix...and healthy babies forming in each one. 

With rabbits history in breeding and from my XP, really I can't prove it wrong. 

Think what you like though. It was just an idea...

-JAK


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## pamnock (Oct 18, 2006)

Can you provide the sources that your information is from?



Pam


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## JAK Rabbitry (Oct 18, 2006)

I'm trying to find the site I had originallyfound on Google a fwe months ago. ITs proving difficult. I shallcontinue my search tomarrow but my eyes are too tired to read muchmore. 

IF you are honestly that desperate for proof, I can provide the number of my vet and you are welcomed to speak with her. 

-JAK


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## pamnock (Oct 19, 2006)

Thank you - I would appreciate it 



Pam


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## ec (Oct 19, 2006)

Err... isn't this perhaps some confusion over the fact that males still have active sperm for some weeks after neutering?

I can't imagine how a female rabbit would be able to "store" sperm... 

(Color me confused.)


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## pamnock (Oct 19, 2006)

They could also be confusing the informationwith superfoetation or AI sperm storage. Perhaps they areconsidering the 30 hour viability of sperm as "storage".

The website that was referred to doesn't have any info. Ihave contacted one of the vet clinics mentioned and will hopefully geta reply and clarification.

In all my years of breeding, I've never seen any evidence that a doecould "store" sperm, carry another litter and conceive again from spermreleased from the first mating, nor have I ever seen it mentioned inany reference.

Pam


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## naturestee (Oct 20, 2006)

Maybe they're confusing rabbits with guppies? Female guppies store sperm for several months.


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## Djakarta (Oct 20, 2006)

Miranda's nest building frenzy ended as quicklyas it began. By the afternoon, she was back to snuggling with thebabies for their afternoon nap. ( I had spent the morning posting abouther on a couple of forums.Just about the time I wastrying to reconcile contradictory advice, she was back tonormal!!)

I left the nest undisturbed and just cleaned around it. After 2 days,Miranda made a point of hopping over to it and picking at it . She thengave me a very pointed look as though to say " What is all this mess?Shouldn't you be cleaning this up? Why is good household help sodifficult to find these days?"


ETA Guppies?????


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## pamnock (Oct 21, 2006)

I would wean the babies now and have her spayed.



An update on my quest to verify evidence of sperm storage -

I received no response from one of the veterinary offices alleged to have given out the advice. 

The website address I was given also had no information on the rabbit's ability to store sperm.

So, we currently have *NO *verified source for this information.

I do have a verified source for rabbit sperm being viable for onlyapprox. 30 hours. Humans are one of the mammals with thelongest lived sperm, which can live in the female reproductive tractfor up to 7 days as they wait for the egg to be released.Rabbit sperm don't have to wait because rabbits are inducedovulators. Egg and sperm are designed to be ready forfertilization at the same time. The ability to store spermwouldserve no purpose in rabbits.

Pam


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## Michaela (Oct 21, 2006)

JAK was there a male in the room outside hercage at any time? I have heard it is possible for rabbits to matethrough cage bars.:?

Or maybe it was the double uterus thing, I think I've heard thatbefore, I just really don't think the sperm storage thing could betrue...

Michaela:brownbunny

EDIT: Djakarta, sorry for hijacking your thread!


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## pamnock (Oct 21, 2006)

Rabbits do have a "double" uterus, just as mostanimalswhich give birth to_ litters_ of young (cats,dogs, pigs, etc.). Although it is oftensaid that rabbits can carry a double pregnancy (superfoetation) andgive birth at different times, this phenom would be extremely rare indomestic rabbits (but not impossible - it has also happened inhumans!). Superfoetation is known in hares.Haresbecome fertile in the last week of gestation of thefirst litter and will mate again carrying overlapping litters.

I have had kitsconceived from a single breedingborn days apart. 

Rabbits will mate again immediately after giving birth and kindle alitter 31 days later. This also provides fuel to the myththat rabbits carry double litters.



I have found that human error is responsible for most of these "unexplainable" incidents.



Pam


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