# Bonding an UNSPAYED female with a neutered male? Baby and adult?



## thetwobunnies (Dec 16, 2012)

So I have a 3 month old holland lop/ mini lop? She is way too big to be a holland lop BUT I was told that she is a holland lop, but anyway she is not spayed yet.

My male rabbit is neutered and has been since like early jan. I plan on getting my female spayed as early as possible, maybe 5 and 1/2 months if my vet is comfortable with that. Although she is really big for her breed/ age, she is still smaller than my male. Would it be a bad idea to start bonding them? I really want them to live together, but I will not allow that until she is spayed, but I was just wondering for the actual bonding process? would it be bad to start letting them see each other face to face without a cage blocking them? They seem to be neutral through the bars and have flopped near each other through the bars - but I know things can be totally different when out in the open. 

I would start off in neutral areas and everything - I have researched on bonding and will double check again IF this is a good idea. However, would I need to re-bond them and do the whole process over again after I spay her? Would I need to separate them for a couple of days while she heals? Personally, I would just like to get this whole cage thing out of the way (fitting 2 cages in a small room like 9'x10' while also trying to make room that is bigger than their cages so when they come out they can binky about, is very stressful) I am going to move in a couple of years so hopefully I will be moving to a more roomy place - but I really don't have much of an option. I would like for them to live together? But I have no idea how my male will react to her living with him in "his" cage. Any ideas? I don't want to "damage" their bond now and make it harder for them to bond later?


----------



## JBun (Dec 16, 2012)

Actually, I had an unspayed female and neutered male that bonded and lived together for a couple years til I was able to get my female spayed. I haven't had any problems with their bond before or after the spay. My female before the spay, would hump him on occasion, but he's a pretty laid back bun and didn't mind too much, and if he didn't want her bugging him he would just hop away til she would leave him alone. Bonding could work out even now, really just depends on the temperments of each of your buns, but definitely start them in neutral territory. That can make a big difference.


----------



## thetwobunnies (Dec 16, 2012)

My male is very friendly, doesn't seem to mind my yorkie at all even when my yorkie is all up in his face - they do not come in contact with each other anymore, it is just too risky. He LOVES to be pet, but can be hyper at times too. My female is a bit more hyper than lazy? But is very friendly. When I let my female out she always tries to interact with my male through his cage, and usually they have these mini stare downs, where my male is wanting her to groom him but she will also do the same, but will hop away within like 30 seconds. 

There was this one time where I accidentally dropped her INTO his cage, and he was chasing her and grunting and it wasn't really the best. However, that was a month ago - if not a bit longer than that. I moved their cages today so they are living side by side, usually it's just them ignoring each other/ them trying to get the other one to groom. 

I might try and take them into a bathroom neither of them have been in before, actually the bathtub in that bathroom is a better choice, with a towel. 

Actually they are flopped next to each other now, I will try to upload a picture


----------



## JBun (Dec 16, 2012)

They look so cute laying by each other  It may work out better now that they've had some time to get accustomed to each other. When you do finally decide to house them together in the same cage, it would probably help to do a major cage remodel with everything new and changed, so that they both don't look on it as *their *cage, and do a thorough cleaning with vinegar to remove any scent from everything.


----------



## thetwobunnies (Dec 16, 2012)

Thank you! It's a bit blurry since the xpen (blue) is seriously right next to my bed and I didn't want to startle them, hopefully things will work out! I will try tomorrow and see how it works out, hopefully I can get them to live together peacefully. That sounds like a good idea, when I think they are ready to live together I will extend the xpen and add the second level (possibly 3rd, but maybe not) and definitely clean the floor with vinegar to get rid of the smell. Hopefully that will be enough change?


----------



## Imbrium (Dec 16, 2012)

how long has it been since his neuter? males can remain fertile for 6-8 weeks after the surgery and, while females normally become sexually mature around 4 mos of age, it's possible for it to happen sooner. if you're past that 6-8 week window already and they get along as-is, it's worth a try... just watch for signs of fighting, as it's really a toss-up as to whether or not fights will start when her hormones kick in - sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

*if* you get all the way through the bonding process to the point of them sharing a cage AND no fights happen between the time when her hormones kick in and when she can be spayed, you can put them right back together after surgery (and btw, he'll NEED to go to the vet with her and chillax in the back or something while she's in surgery - if he doesn't go along and she comes home smelling like "vet's office" it could break their bond).

if they have to be separated due to fighting after her hormones kick in, it can take up to a month for them to be completely gone after her spay so it may be necessary to keep them separate for that time and then re-bond. keeping them where they can see/smell each other (but not fight through bars/a divider) while they're apart can help preserve some of the bond they formed so that you don't actually have to start over from scratch.


----------



## thetwobunnies (Dec 16, 2012)

He got neutered in early jan. so well over 6-8 weeks. Ah, I see I wish rabbits weren't so picky! I hope to spay her BEFORE her hormones actually go into full gear, I don't want to wait until her hormones have already kicked in. Maybe around 5 and a 1/2 months if my vet is comfortable with that. Or 5, I don't want to spay her too young but not too old either. But I will definitely keep watch and see what happens tomorrow, and hopefully progress into bonding them fully. 

IF everything goes fine and they are still happily bonded when I get her spayed, will my vet allow my male to be waiting in the back? I have heard rabbits losing their bond when separated even for a couple of hours. Which concerns me because when I move there is a slight chance I will be taking a plane, and I will only choose an airline that allows rabbits in the cabin. However I don't know if I am able to fit 2 rabbits in my carrier (airline approved) or if that's even possible. BUT that is a different subject that I will worry about when the time comes


----------



## Imbrium (Dec 16, 2012)

my vet spays at 4-5 mos depending on size... both my bunnies are tiny, so they had to wait until 5 (he likes them to be 2.5+ lbs or so). although their hormones almost certainly kicked in by 5 mos old, they made it all the way to their spay day living together 24/7 without a single fight.

there's still a lot of question marks when it comes to figuring out what will and won't mess up a bond, and it seems to vary from pair to pair. M/F pairs are less likely to randomly lose their bond than same-sex pairs. the vet *should* allow your male to be waiting in the back... if they don't, I'd honestly question how rabbit-savvy the vet actually is, as an experienced rabbit vet should be used to bonded pairs coming in for stuff together even if only one of them actually needs the visit. my vet put my two girls in the same cage ASAP when they came out of surgery because they came in together and they knew they needed to get back together.


----------



## JBun (Dec 16, 2012)

Ditto what Jennifer said on how early a spay can be done. Just depends on the vet or clinic, and size of your rabbit, on how early they will do it.


----------



## thetwobunnies (Dec 16, 2012)

I will definitely contact my vet about that. And if that is the case then surely my vet will allow it, I have 2 great vets. Both on the rabbit.org site, however the vet that my male went to is on maternity leave so I had to pick another vet for my younger one. However, although both seem like excellent vets and very knowledgable in rabbits I'm not sure which to pick for the spay. The vet that my older rabbit went to apparently neutered him? Because she told me that she fixes rabbits from that rescue. Which is great, so she does this on a regular basis. And I have no idea how often the vet my female rabbit sees does spays/ neuters.


----------

