# Mating or establishing dominance? Help?



## bowserandluna (Feb 23, 2014)

I really need some help! I have two bunnys, male and female who will be turning three months old on March 1. They were "litter buddies" separate litters but were bonded together and born on the same day. 

Well, randomly the male bunny has started what seems to be trying to mate with the female. I have talked to my breeder numerous times and she has told me not to be concerned and just to get him to the vet, so I have an appointment on Saturday to determine if it's time to get him neutered.

He jumps on her but he's not mating... because I've looked at what he should be doing if he was mating successfully and he's not falling over when he's done. Basically he sometimes seems like he's humping her, doing the little butt dance... other times he's just kind of standing there on top of her. She doesn't like it.

Is this more of a way of him establishing his dominance over her? 
Also, I don't think she is sexually mature if he is...because she just doesn't really wanted to be bothered with it. She won't get pregnant will she? I mean obviously not if he's to fulling mating with her.

Opinions? 
Thanks guys!


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## bowserandluna (Feb 23, 2014)

Oh also, the boy rabbit has been running around honking and I've noticed him thumping a lot?


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## kisha.princess (Feb 23, 2014)

Oh my gosh! My rabbits have the opposite problem! My female humps my male and then he honks and thumps, although they're about 9ish months. But I do believe that is him asserting dominance


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## whiskylollipop (Feb 24, 2014)

Male rabbits mature faster than females do, so it's not surprising your male is humping your female before she's interested in that kinda thing. It is hormonal humping, so it's about both mating and dominance, but as long as you neuter him ASAP she will not get pregnant. Females don't mature sexually till 4-5 months old.

That said, it would be wise to separate them for now, in case she suddenly decides she's tired of his humping and they start fighting. If I were you, I'd separate them (not totally, just with a cage divider) until 2 months after you get the female neutered. Hormones can stay up to 7-8 weeks after the neuter. After that period, they should have calmed down considerably and be ready for real bonding.


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## bowserandluna (Feb 24, 2014)

whiskylollipop said:


> Male rabbits mature faster than females do, so it's not surprising your male is humping your female before she's interested in that kinda thing. It is hormonal humping, so it's about both mating and dominance, but as long as you neuter him ASAP she will not get pregnant. Females don't mature sexually till 4-5 months old.
> 
> That said, it would be wise to separate them for now, in case she suddenly decides she's tired of his humping and they start fighting. If I were you, I'd separate them (not totally, just with a cage divider) until 2 months after you get the female neutered. Hormones can stay up to 7-8 weeks after the neuter. After that period, they should have calmed down considerably and be ready for real bonding.



Thank you! I have my appointment with the vet on Saturday. I wish I had time to get him in there sooner


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## Imbrium (Feb 24, 2014)

Honking and circling are "courtship ritual" behaviors. Male bunnies typically reach sexual maturity around 3-4 months old and will begin trying to mate with any female they can whether she's sexually mature or not (and even if she's spayed)... heck, they'll even hump other males and sometimes even toys or human feet.

Also, baby bunnies don't do the whole "dominance" thing - they get along with anyone... meaning that humping for dominance is as much a sign of having reached sexual maturity as hormonal humping.

You need to separate them ASAP, preferably in a way where they can still see/smell each other (so that they retain their "baby bond" and you don't have to re-bond them from scratch later). Keep in mind that bunnies can (and WILL) mate and/or fight through shared boundaries like cage walls, NIC grids, x-pens, etc. - you need some space between their cages/enclosures to prevent this.

Females typically reach sexual maturity at 4-6 months, though there's a slim chance she could be an early bloomer. While it's unlikely that she could get pregnant at this point, his hormones could prompt him to pick a fight with her or his humping could drive her to pick a fight with him.

Vets will usually neuter as soon as a male's testicles descend (which they probably have, though they sometimes suck them back into their body when you try to check for them, lol). Keep in mind that you shouldn't put him back in with her after the neuter - a male's hormones can take up to 6-8 weeks after a neuter to be completely gone (fwiw, the recently-neutered adult male I adopted last December was hormonal until around 6 weeks after his surgery) and they can also remain FERTILE for up to 6-8 weeks. In other words, pregnancy and/or fighting will still be concerns even after his neuter.

By the time his hormones and fertility are definitely gone, she'll be over four months old - meaning *her* hormones could irrationally provoke a fight. Most vets will spay at 4-6 months of age (possibly with a minimum weight requirement - my vet wanted them to be around 2 lbs, so my (dwarf) girls had to wait until they were 5 months old). A female's hormones only linger for up to a month after a spay (and they're obviously infertile immediately).

As a note, when you take him to be neutered, you should bring her along (in a separate carrier, of course) and leave her at the vet's during his surgery if at all possible; same thing in reverse when she gets spayed. This is a measure to preserve their baby bond so that no one returns home to their neighbor smelling like "weird vets office"  (if you explain that they're semi-bonded and you're trying to preserve that, the vet should be fine with the tag-alongs).

In other words, you need to separate them, get them both fixed as soon as you can and then wait until either 3-4 weeks after her spay or 6-8 weeks after his neuter (whichever comes last) before reintroducing them. Approach re-intros like you're bonding them from scratch - ie use neutral territory at first. The process will be similar to normal bonding, but because they formed a baby bond (assuming they're separated before any fighting can happen) and were able to see/smell each other during their separation, it should move much more quickly (possibly even moving them back in together after a single session).


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## bowserandluna (Feb 26, 2014)

So I am going to buy necesarry things to separate their cages for now. I just have an xpen that I'm going to attatch to their extra large dog crate right now so the other bun can have just as much room. Today Luna was very uninterested in playing and I think she's just sick of Bowser being all over her. 
I'm so afraid they are going to lose their bond, they really love eachother right now. Is it truly necessary to bring Luna to the vet when Bowser goes? I am all nervous about separation anxiety happening since they were weaned off of their mothers together and everything. They're pretty much been attatched at the hip. Just not looking forward to paying extra cash for another pet crate to tag along. But I guess you gotta do what you gotta do. 

Is it still appropriate to allow them to have play times together? Or maybe not until they're both spayed now?


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## whiskylollipop (Feb 26, 2014)

Can't you fit them both in the same pet crate? It doesn't matter if it gets a little crowded in there, as long as it's not too long of a trip. Bringing them both is important in case Bowser picks up strange scents at the vet's which may cause Luna not to recognise him and react aggressively.

Supervised playtime together is fine, but you should be there to break up any humping or possibly fighting. They should not have any playtime together AFTER the neuter though, because you don't want Bowser tearing his stitches accidentally.


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## bowserandluna (Feb 26, 2014)

Okay I can totally fit them into the same crate! I just didn't know if after his surgery if that would be okay because if he wants to play with he rid something. It's not a long trip at all.


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## bowserandluna (Feb 26, 2014)

This is so awful. I'm trying to keep them separated but just with a divider and bowser is just stressing out! And Luna kind of was too but now she's relaxed a little bit. I feel absolutely awful and don't know what to do. But his humping her has just gotten even worse and he seriously will not leave her alone and she hates it.  How can I make him relax??


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Feb 26, 2014)

They need to be separated NOW, permanently, until each rabbit is altered. Three months old is not too young for rabbits to breed, and brother to sister breedings can cause serious structural faults -- not weird "mutations," but close relative breeding doubles up on weaknesses. 

About 1-2 months after both rabbits are neutered, you may be able to bond them again.

As for their "stressing out," it's not because they are emotionally distraught over being separated. And to be honest...it doesn't really matter because they can't be together right now anyway. But it's more likely sexual frustration - the buck knowing his girl is "over there" and not being able to reach her. Neutering will help this.


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## PaGal (Feb 26, 2014)

I have also read in more than one place that buns can mate when just separated by a cage. So if one bun is in a cage and the other is out running around for free time then mating can occur. The female bun may be physically capable of pregnancy but she is young for it which could put her and a litter in danger. Not to mention there are more than enough unwanted buns sitting in shelters to not add to that with an "oops" litter.


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## bowserandluna (Feb 26, 2014)

Yeah they are separated now and Bowsers cage is on top of Lunas. I know that he was just stressed out because of sexual frustration but it's still sad to watch. I can't wait to get him neutered!


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