# Ringo and his Ongoing Story of Hope



## JadeIcing (Sep 7, 2006)

Test were done (7/3) I didn't get the results for almost a month.
Ringo pasteurella multocida (heavy growth)and entrobactercloacae (heavy growth) Have tons on pasteurella can't find anything onthe second one.


He went in (1/16) sneezing and discharge. Tribirissen Oral(o.52xdaily). (2/20) still sneezing they give him Chloromycetinpalmitate (1ml2xdaily) for 2weeks. (4/2)Emergency visit. Head-tilt,Rolling,Pus in one ear, Sneezing. Meds in office, 50cc LRSSQ, 0.2ml dex dm. Take home Baytril (0.4ml), liquid tears, criticalecare. When we go back for Connor on the 8th she (the vet)gives me for Ringo Neobacimyx Opth Oint for his eye. (4/14) Improved.(5/6) Improved (5/15) head-tilt worsening. In office meds firstlongicillin shot and some metacam. Take home 2months of shots. FirstNolv Otic to clean ears than Baytril otic (1drop2xdaily each ear).Metacam 0.025ml 1xdaily.(5/23)(me call in) Ear sloshy. head stilltilted. Bad rolling episode (5/21). (6/29) Ears clearing up. Stillsneezing. (7/3) Meds are now permanate.

He now takes baytril 2xdaily, Penicillian-Benzathine 1/2cc every otherday. His ears I started cleaning every other day 1x daily. I put thebaytril drops in everyday. The baytril and shots I stick to what theysaid. The rest of the meds I do depending how he is. No stressing himat all!

Vet said for him it is Quality of life over Quantity.



Connor pseudomonas species. Scant growth. Can't find anything on it. 

He first went in April 8th, due to slight sneezing and minor discharge.Since he was to young they didn't start the baytril on him. He startedtaking Tribrissen oral(0.82xdaily) for two weeks. AboutTwoweeks of him being fine and bam starts again. Call back(4/14). Another2 weeks of the same meds. (5/6)I cal hes doing well. (5/27)Still sneezing barely any discharge. (6/29) Still sneezing. Only time Ican get in for is 7/3. Goes in test are done. He is put on baytril. Hasbeen since that day.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 7, 2006)

Oh yea forgot the weights for my boys.

Ringo

(1/16) 3.75#

(4/2) 1.9kg convert becomes 4.2#

(7/3) 3.43#

Connor

(4/8) 2.37#

(7/3) 2.81#

Dates for actual visits

Ringo

(1/16)

(4/2)

(4/8)

(5/15)

(7/3)

Connor

(4/8)

(7/3)


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## pamnock (Sep 7, 2006)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> Test were done (7/3) I didn't get the results for almost a month.
> Ringo pasteurella multocida (heavy growth)and entrobactercloacae (heavy growth) Have tons on pasteurella can't find anything onthe second one.
> 
> 
> ...




Enterobacter are a family of bacteria that are notuncommon in healthy rabbits. A compromised immune system canresult in the overgrowth of bacteria that showed up in the labtests. There are also numerous species of pasteurella -- somemore virulent than others.

Pseudomonas is another common bacteria.

Antibiotic therapy will most likely be long term.

Pam


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## JadeIcing (Sep 7, 2006)

Ok. Honestly I am fine with it. Even though Ihate the shots. What worries me is the boys can't get fixed. Well Ringothe vet said she wouldn't want to risk the stress. Connor we stillaren't sure. 

Ringo pees in his litter pan but will poop anywhere. Connor has THEBEST litter habbits. I mean amazing! He only goes in one corner of hislitter pan. He is aggressive.Than all those rand hormones. I feel badthey might never have real friends instead of stuffed friends.

Is there ill effects to not getting fixed? I know for femalestheir is cancer.


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## pamnock (Sep 7, 2006)

Bucks can get testicular cancer and infectionsof the testes. However, in the case of your boys, thebenefits of neutering would not outweigh the risks.

Pam


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## JadeIcing (Sep 7, 2006)

*pamnock wrote:*


> Bucks can get testicular cancer and infections of thetestes. However, in the case of your boys, the benefits ofneutering would not outweigh the risks.
> 
> Pam


That scares me. I am going to the vet the 23rd of September for Teresa's first vet visit so I will talk to them.


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## naturestee (Sep 7, 2006)

Pam, I thought testicular problems were actually rare. Have you ever seen any?


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## pamnock (Sep 8, 2006)

The incidence of testicular problems increasesas the rabbit ages, but no, testicular tumors are not common in bucksalthough I havehadtwo cases in my own barn and knowof a number of cases. Bucks with retained testiclesare more likely to develop health problems such as testicularcancer. Abscesses can also develop in the testicles.

Pam


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## JadeIcing (Sep 8, 2006)

Well Connor may be fine. Still not sure butRingo who knows. As I said I go to the vets the 23 rd and talk to them.Have a few questions including another med I heard of that seems towork. The med is Zithromax.


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## JadeIcing (Mar 17, 2007)

OK figured I would bump this. Some people have been asking about Ringo. Also to sort of up date on them.

Both boys tried zithromax. 

Connor for two weeks and cleared up in a few days. He was just fixed yesterday.

Ringo was on it a month. He is doing good. He has been off it a monthand seems to be clear. Before if we tried taking him off meds within afew days he would relapse. 



Read down a bit and you see some updates with details and pictures.


http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=17767&amp;forum_id=6&amp;page=4


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## JadeIcing (Apr 4, 2007)

Well after the Zithromax Ringo's nose, clearedup and his sneezing stopped. His balance on the other hand is very off.He still jumps up an runs around but if tries to stand up or stand andlean against something he falls over and rolls.

So the vet is putting him on Bonine 1/2 tablet, and Metcam if he seemsto be in pain. The pill can take up to six hours to work so for thefirst few days we will give him the metcam.

The rolling is scaring me because I worry he will get his leg caught inbetween the bars of his pen. So My mom is buying him some baby bumpersfor his pen. Last resort is getting a extra large rubbermaid containerand that will be his home.

Prayers that we can find something to help my little guy would be very welcome.


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## ani-lover (Apr 4, 2007)

awe poor baby! my tabetha has a balance problem also.

prayers to get betterray:


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## JadeIcing (Apr 4, 2007)

Thank you.


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## naturestee (Apr 4, 2007)




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## JadeIcing (Apr 4, 2007)

*Can I have the bunny?*

*naturestee wrote: *


>


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## lalena2148 (Apr 4, 2007)

ray::brown-bunny:brown-bunny


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## naturestee (Apr 4, 2007)

Alicia, you don't want that bunny!


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## JadeIcing (Apr 4, 2007)

Yes I do. Wait why not?


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## Pipp (Apr 4, 2007)

Kirsty Alley kept her head tilt bunny,Strawberry, in one of those kiddies wading pool things, they have theperfect soft-sided bumpers. Might be worth a look? 



sas


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## JadeIcing (Apr 4, 2007)

She had a bunny! Oh that rocks. I love her.

I will check into that if this doesn't work. Than put the pen around it to keep away unwanted rabbits.


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## Haley (Apr 4, 2007)

Poor Ringo. You guys have been through a lot. Iknow what that feels like. Hes such a trooper and he's so lucky to havea mom like you.

I'll be praying for your little guy. I cant imagine your vet bills


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## JadeIcing (Apr 4, 2007)

The two meds were $30. My dog has a vet visit next Saturday. She needs shots now I have to do that another day.


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## m.e. (Apr 5, 2007)

You guyshave been through so much. ray: for Ringo (and :hug2: for you!)


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## JadeIcing (Apr 5, 2007)

Thanks. Other than that one thing he is doing so well.


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## LuvaBun (Apr 5, 2007)

Poor little Ringo. How is he doing today?

Jan


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## JadeIcing (Apr 5, 2007)

He is sleeping.


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## naturestee (Apr 5, 2007)

Tell Ringo I thought of him today! Iwas reading The Private Life of the Rabbit, and the author was talkingabout how the dominant buck usually had the biggest testicles...


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## JadeIcing (Apr 5, 2007)

Lol. That made me burst out laughing. I can not thank you enough I needed that. I really did.


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## naturestee (Apr 5, 2007)

:lol


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## JadeIcing (Apr 5, 2007)

He is sitting in his litter pan eating. I shouldpost pics of his set up and one of him falling so you guys can see. Itook them last night.


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## ani-lover (Apr 5, 2007)

i would like to see pics. i would post pics in my thread for tabethas situation if you want


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## JadeIcing (Apr 6, 2007)

Here we go.

His set up.

















Falling over.





You can see when he stands how he leans. Usually he will fall.





Trying to get pets.





This is Ringo eating meds.


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## naturestee (Apr 7, 2007)

Poor baby. Is it just me, or does he look a little more tilted than he used to?:?


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## JadeIcing (Apr 7, 2007)

Towards the night yes. During the day he isfine. Also I noticed if he is out he is ok. The minute he goes back init starts. I don't know what to do. 

I can not even take it one day at a time. I keep thinking if he doescome down with another round of it can we keep fighting. I am so pushedto the limit right now I just don't know.


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## naturestee (Apr 7, 2007)

:hug2:

I'm pulling for him!


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## JadeIcing (Apr 7, 2007)

Thanks. He is are baby. 

As you can see it doesn't stop him. He keeps on and does not give up. He is are little fighter.


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## Starina (Apr 8, 2007)

Poor Sweetie. He sure doesn't seem to let it get him down. He was trying to get that camera when you put it in his cage.

Hugs to all of you. :hug2:

~Star~


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## TinysMom (Apr 8, 2007)

Alicia,

R2 is more prone to tilt if he doesn't drink enough - you may want to try pushing a bit of pedialyte every two hours or so.

R2 also will tilt when he goes in his cage but sit pretty good whenhe's out of his cage playing. I find that if he is given at least 4hours per day out of his cage- he does better at not tilting.

I've also been opening up echinacea capsules and dumping them in babyfood and giving that to him - about 2 capsules per day in about 1/2 jarof baby food. He LOVES it....and just scarfs it right up.

R2 has had three or four bouts now w/ head tilt - mainly minor onessince his first one. They seem to come on if we get a draft in thehouse from it turning cold...or if he gets dehydrated a bit.

I'll definitely be praying for your family and your bunny.

Peg*


JadeIcing wrote: *


> Towards the night yes.During the day he is fine. Also I noticed if he is out he is ok. Theminute he goes back in it starts. I don't know what to do.
> 
> I can not even take it one day at a time. I keep thinking if he doescome down with another round of it can we keep fighting. I am so pushedto the limit right now I just don't know.


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## JadeIcing (Apr 8, 2007)

*Yay more things to try. I will start that ASAP.*

*TinysMom wrote: *


> Alicia,
> 
> R2 is more prone to tilt if he doesn't drink enough - you may want to try pushing a bit of pedialyte every two hours or so.
> 
> ...


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## MyBoyHarper (Apr 8, 2007)

Awww, poor darlin'! He's such a cutie and like Starina said, it definitely doesn't seem to get him down at all.

I have a couple questions, since I am new to the world of bunnies withhead tilt since I got Merri. I just found out earlier that your littleConnor had head tilt but made a full recovery. What was Connor's headtilt caused by, and what caused Ringo's head tilt? I was curious as towhy Connor made a full recovery and little Ringo hasn't (yet!). 

I'm pulling for the little dude! :hug2:


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## TinysMom (Apr 8, 2007)

I bought the echinacea capsules at the grocerystore. The brand I got is Nature's Resource and it says:Echinacea - 100 capsules, 350 mg Aerial parts. It was under $6 for thecontainer.

One of the reasons I did this is I use the Rabbit Medicine Chest stuffw/ R2 (I've used it with the others) but when he started to relapse itwould pull him out within 8 hours. I read the ingredients and thought,"Hmm...echinacea is the first ingredient and looks like the main one -let me try it."

I gave him the food mixed w/ echinacea every couple of hours (I givehim a higher dose than that if he is just starting an episode and thenback down to that dose) and I'm finding that I can usually pull him outof a rolling episode within 12 hours if I do that and push pedialyte.

However - to those reading - I am NOT saying "do not go to your vet".But my vet is not overly knowledgable about this and when we talkedabout it over the phone before bringing my first case in, she evenmentioned that I might be more up on the topic than she was and sheencouraged me to try what breeders had told me to try if I feltuncomfortable stressing the rabbit more by a 70 mile one way trip tothe vet, etc.

If you have a good vet- go see them!

Peg*


JadeIcing wrote: *


> *Yay more things to try. I will start that ASAP.*


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## JadeIcing (Apr 8, 2007)

Ah ha...Connor never got the tilt....

He had similar symptoms but something different. Also started meds alot sooner than Ringo. 

Sadly Ringo suffered do to my not knowing anything.



Help?(update) &lt;---More Details. I need to type up my latestnotes. Yes I have binders full of research. I am a dork.


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## JadeIcing (Apr 8, 2007)

Oh I will try it can't hurt.


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## ani-lover (Apr 8, 2007)

*JadeIcing wrote:*


> Help?(update) &lt;---More Details. I need to type up my latestnotes. Yes I have binders full of research. I am a dork.



jadeicing: you are not a dork. you are very smart for having all thatstuff. i have binders full of stuff also. its good to have a lot ofstuff so you know what you have and if you ever need it.


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## m.e. (Apr 9, 2007)

*TinysMom wrote:*


> R2 also will tilt when he goes in his cage but sit prettygood when he's out of his cage playing. I find that if he is given atleast 4 hours per day out of his cage- he does better at nottilting.



 Same here. Peanut's head tilt getsdramatically _worse_ whenever she's confined. Regular exercisehelps her strengthen and maintain balance, and since she's been wellenough not to need the support of an exercise pen, being 'cage free'has been really great for her.

Peg, that's interesting about the echinacea capsules. I'll have to check those out...


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## JadeIcing (Apr 9, 2007)

I wish I could leave him free roam or give him more time out but with 8 rabbits I can't.

I am working on this now as we speak.

Playtime groups or how ever you want to see this. 

1)Dallas and Teresa

2)Samantha

3)Connor

4) Elvis

5) Desi

6) Wyatt

7) Ringo


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## JadeIcing (Apr 10, 2007)

Well I have made some changes. Ringo's Cage is diffenent. I will post pics of that later. For now I figured the more out time.

I blocked off the hallway for him. I can not let him just run aroundbecause I have the four going through bonding in the living room inthere bonding pen. 







He is having a ball in there. Zipping around at top speed.


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## Eve (Apr 10, 2007)

Aww, poor little Ringo. I will be keeping him in my thoughts and prayers ray:


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## ani-lover (Apr 12, 2007)

how is he today??


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## JadeIcing (Apr 12, 2007)

Ok.


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## ani-lover (Apr 22, 2007)

any better today?


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## JadeIcing (Apr 22, 2007)

Same no change. Thanks so much for asking. Idid find something to use as a litterpan.


















He is here during the day.


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## Mummel (Apr 24, 2007)

Hi,

My Amy (&lt;---pic) had the same problem. 

From what I saw on the video your bunny is able to run around and keepthe balance while doing that. So it is not too bad. The medicationmight not get rid of it right away but as long as it doesnt get worseand he can walk and eat..no diarrhea he is good for now. Some bunniesheadtilt needs a longer time to get better even though they might havedefeated the virus.

Amys head sometimes got a little better and when she sat it didnt lookthat painful anymore..when she walked it didnt look that good and ittook some time until she dared to run around again.

In worse cases bunnys just lay on the floor and spin in circles. Amywasnt able to walk at first and just turned around in a circle.

Does your bunny get Worm paste..?(what they get when they have worms)it helps the bunny poop out the bacteria. I forgot what antibiotic Amygot..it was suposed to be the best responding to E.Cuniculi. I couldcheck.

Btw. my rat needed 8 months until she was able to hold her head well and keep balance but she became old 

Im sorry gotta go now..hope your bun gets better!

Emi

Amys Story:

http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=14427&amp;forum_id=6&amp;page=3


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## Mummel (Apr 24, 2007)

Oh Jade Icing I just saw Ringo is your bunny..I thought he looked familar (from your avatar)
Wasnt paying too much attention..I wrote quick.
Well anyway..then you know Amy! And Im optimistic Ringo will beat it


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## JadeIcing (Apr 24, 2007)

He seems to for the most part.

Was going to tye this but nah. Watch for my cage idea.


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## maherwoman (Apr 24, 2007)

I think that's a really good idea, Ali! 

I agree...ya gotta work with whatcha got...and you're doing a wonderful job. 

Ringo is a really happy boy, that certainly radiates through everypicture and video I see of him. You're doing an awesome job,Hun! 

Hugs to everyone!


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## JadeIcing (Apr 24, 2007)

Well went to Target and the grids are on saleagain! Just till saturday. I found solid ones! So we are going to usethose instead. I am doing it tonight. I almost cried when I saw them.Its to much. :tears2:


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## maherwoman (Apr 24, 2007)

Oh, that's wonderful...I'm so happy things arecoming together for you to do this for your baby boy. Hedeserves it, too. 



You're such a wonderful mommy...


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## JadeIcing (Apr 25, 2007)

YAY! Not done but you'll see.


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## JadeIcing (Apr 25, 2007)

Ringo loves his new pen!


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## maherwoman (Apr 25, 2007)

NICELY DONE!! It looks perfect! 

P.S. I thought Ringo was one of the stuffies, hehe!  What a cutie!!


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## naturestee (Apr 26, 2007)

How to test a new pen- sleep like a log!


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## JadeIcing (Apr 26, 2007)

Lol. Yea. He loves it. I am sooooo happy. He is getting a little dog bed put in there. So much more going in.


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## JadeIcing (Apr 26, 2007)

Ok well Ringo is standing more with out falling over! Not good enough for me. He still has some balance issues. 





I need somethingthat can help him. I don't know whatelse todo for him.


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## ani-lover (Apr 27, 2007)

*JadeIcing wrote:*


> Ok well Ringo is standing more with out falling over! Notgood enough for me. He still has some balance issues.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i have the same problem. i made a make shift brace for tabetha to runwithout falling over but i guess i have to keep her on steroids andwait for time to tell.

do you give him any meds??


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## ani-lover (May 5, 2007)

how is he today?


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## JadeIcing (May 6, 2007)

Very good.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 15, 2008)

This is more than likely one of the hardest things for me to write. Ringo has not seemed to bounce back from his last relapse. Or at least bounce all the way back. He is still his active hyper, piggy but lazy self. The thing is he is having more or less non stop rolling episodes. Some of them seem worse than when he first came down with head-tilt. 

Ringo rolls and its not just one. It is multiple non stop. If we can't get to him he usually stops when he hits the side of his pen. We start calling to him from his first roll and most times he will for some reason gain control. We wonder if when we call he is concentrating more and that helps him. Whatever it is we keep on.

He has used some of the best meds and is still on some meds. He has had the cultures done before (May be taking him in for a new one as soon as I can.). Everything the vet can do has been done. 

First I want to post a few things from a few sites.

Site 1

A. MUST make a LONG TERM commitment to the care of the rabbit. None of these diseases are going to be "quick cures". Many will take weeks to MONTHS to see any positive results. 
B. Problems to watch for: 
1. Decubital ulcers ("bed sores" from sitting in one place too long or from soiling by stool or urine) Solution: Keep pet on soft absorbent bedding and move positions often. Use protective creams or ointments and bandaging as necessary. Bath anal area as needed and dry thoroughly after the bath 

This is not a problem for him. Well he does get some urine stain that I wash him for. He has some areas he has alittle trouble grooming.

2. Damage to eye(s) when rabbit is falling or rolling Solution: provide cage padding - cover wire floors and walls, use eye ointments as needed to protect eye and treat dryness. Remove toys or items that the toe nails could get caught in - keep the nails trimmed - experiment with using smaller cage or exercise areas until the pet is more stable. 

Nothing in his area that can harm him. He has a 7ftx4ft pen, in a smaller area he does NOT handle well.

3. Joints become stiff or muscles atrophy. Solution: You will not be able to counteract all of the damage because if there is no nerve innervation to the area, the tissue will eventually contract and become hard and useless. However, physical therapy several times daily for a few minutes can be very helpful. Gently flex and extend the joints at least 20 times at a session. In addition massaging the muscles prior to stretching helps to "warm them up" and loosen them. 

He is able to run and jump on his own keeping his body in good condition.

4. Handling - can be stressful to the pet especially if there is a loss of balance Solution: Short handling sessions and minimal handling until the pet adjusts to the condition. Many pets over time actually get calmer when certain people handle. 

We don't lift him if not a must. Though he does handle it pretty well.

5. Cecotropes - some rabbits cannot reach the anus to eat the cecotropes which are necessary for a healthy diet Solution: You will recognize these vitamin rich droppings because of their shiny mucous coat, stronger smell and unusual shape. Collect these whenever they appear and place them in or near the food area. Most rabbits will eat them on their own. Many rabbits learn to find them on their own in the cage. This is another reason not to have a wire cage floor which will allow the cecotropes to drop out of the rabbit's reach. 

He has ALWAYS been able to get those. Trust me I have seen them in his mouth. Bleech!

6. Food and water containers. Solution: Experiment with what is most comfortable for your pet. It might be necessary to attach these containers to the side of the cage so the rabbit doesn't keep pushing them around. Some rabbits can no longer use water bottles, so provide a bowl with shallow water. It may be necessary to elevate or use wider mouthed bowls to make feeding easier.

Not an issue he is just fine.

7. The ridicule of family and friends - hopefully this doesn't happen to you, but if it does, be assured that you are providing the best possible home for your pet. Solution: Tell them they don't know what they are missing by having a close connection with an animal that needs special assistance. If you are in doubt about whether or not you are doing the right thing and whether or not your pet is suffering, keep in mind some signs to look - pain in the rabbit can be exhibited in a number of ways, but some of the more common ones are: not eating, not willing to move (even the partially paralyzed bunnies will still try to move), sitting with eyes half closed all the time, hunched whenever it is sitting, extreme lethargy. Work with your veterinarian and have him or her tell you what is happening medically and then do carefully observations of your pet so you can see what is going on "spiritually". 

This I thank god that only a handful have not been supportive. Between my parents, brother and grandma I have the biggest support on everything that concerns him. Plus this forum and other rabbit groups.

Now the other site.

neurologic damage is often permanent. Therefore, affected rabbits usually need special care to make them comfortable. 

I have been caring for Ringos head-tilt for 2years and 8mnths.

Preventing further injuries: Especially in cases where there is facial paralysis, the eyelids may not be able to close and the eyes will need to be protected. Litter which may contain excessive dust should be removed. The eyes will need to be protected with ointments or artificial tears, and the nails should be trimmed. The rabbit may also need to be confined to a smaller cage to protect her from injuring herself due to incoordination or rolling. Any protruberances in the cage that could cause injury should be removed and blankets and towels can be used to provide soft surfaces.

The first part is just fine. I can not keep him confined to a small area because he gets worse. 

Rabbits that are severely affected and are unable to move to a great extent can develop decubital ulcers (bed sores). In an effort to prevent these, make sure the rabbit is on a soft surface and turned from side to side multiple times each day. Urine or feces on the skin and fur can cause inflammation, pain, and result in secondary bacterial infections, so keep the anal area clean and dry.

The rabbit should be encouraged to exercise, if he is able, since this may increase the appetite, help with digestion, maintain good muscle tone, and prevent joint stiffness. Gently flexing and extending the limbs during several sessions each day, as well as massage, may also be beneficial. Acupuncture and chiropractic treatments have also been tried.

Again not an issue for him.

Providing food and water: Some rabbits with head tilt will not be able to eat, or may have a decreased appetite. Supply plenty of fresh vegetables and greens to entice them. Some may need to be fed by syringe. Have your veterinarian or veterinary technician show you how to do this. Improper syringe feeding could result in aspiration of the food and pneumonia. A medication called Meclizine (Anti-Vert) may be prescribed by your veterinarian to reduce dizziness and the accompanying nausea.

Not an issue. He eats like a pig and is given more to make sure he can maintain a healthy weight if he was to get worse.

As you may know, rabbits pass special droppings called cecotropes which they eat. They differ from other droppings in that they have a a mucous coating and are generally passed as an elongated mass. It is necessary for rabbits to eat them in order to more fully digest their food and obtain more of its nutritional value. Depending upon the severity of the condition, a rabbit may be unable to reach the anal area and the cecotropes. The cecotropes can be collected and placed in an area where the rabbit can reach them.

Not an issue.

The rabbit should be monitored for his ability to drink. He may be unable to use a water bottle, and the water bowl may more easily be tipped over or become contaminated with droppings. The rabbit will have less control of his head movements, so do NOT use a very large or deep bowl, which may make him more prone to aspirate while drinking. Instead, provide a heavy and shallow bowl. Food dishes, too, may need to be shallow. Observe the rabbit to determine at what height the bowls should be to provide the best access.

Not an issue.

Having patience: Recovery from head tilt may take weeks, though there should be some improvement after several days of treatment. Some rabbits may fully recover, others may not. 

Rabbits who are permanently disabled are not necessarily unhappy. 

Ringo isn't at least not that I see. He is angry after rolling. He will glare after an episode, shove at his blanket, knock over his stuffed friends.

If your rabbit is eating and drinking, trying to groom, and moving about as best he can, he is showing signs he is recovering and enjoying life. 

ALWAYS. Ok so his grooming is alittle harder and not what it used to be but he is good.

If however, he has no appetite, is lethargic and depressed, and unresponsive to you, you should consult with your veterinarian to determine if the rabbit is in pain, what the long-term prognosis is for the rabbit, and what will be best for him. 

This is refered to as the three A's -- Appetite Affection Alertness 

*Appetite* - He always has an appetite. Always eating. He will roll and still hang onto whatever he is eating. Sometimes he even keeps chewing.

*Affection* - Always. He craves it. Will shove at you till you are petting him. 

*Alertness* - He is alert. He isn't lethargic or depressed. He is a little spit-fire. He can run with the best of them. He has his own type of binky.



Ringo rolls so bad it scares me. I cry everytime I see him like that. I go to work with so much fear that I will come home and he will have hurt himself. If he is not penned he seems to do so much better. For so many reasons him being loose would not work. The biggest being how do I monitor his movements? How do I make sure he is eatting, using the bathroom etc if he is freerange. How do I keep the area safe for his special needs? 

I recently was very ill. I was so dizzy I actually fell. My head was spinning so bad I couldn't fuction. I was being helped even to the bathroom. It made me feel so guilty because that is what my sweet little boy is going through. How can I continue to make him go through this? How Do I make it ok?

I am going to be very honest here yes. We are starting to consider if it is best to let this continue. It hurts so bad to put it out there. I am in tears as I write this. It makes my hurt ache, I mean literally my chest hurts so bad at admitting it. We are going to be trying a new tactic with meds and special care. I won't get into treatment because that is not the case. He is getting the best. We plan on doing this until at least January than reevaluate. That is as long as he does not get worse. 

I have to consider what is right for him. NOT me, what is best for my sweet little boy who has been so through so much. Not what is easy or best for me. I have to put him first before myself.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 15, 2008)

I should post that his pen is atleast7ftx4ft.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 15, 2008)

Ringo on 9/6/08


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Sep 15, 2008)

oh my i am so sorry that you even have to contenplate this. I admire that you want to do what is best for him and not you, sometimes that is so hard for us to do for our babies. I am glad to see that you are at least giving it sometime and then reevalutating it. I am so sorry and HUGS to you guys and especially to Ringo.


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## Jenk (Sep 15, 2008)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> I recently was very ill. I was so dizzy I actually fell. My head was spinning so bad I couldn't fuction. I was being helped even to the bathroom. It made me feel so guilty because that is what my sweet little boy is going through. How can I continue to make him go through this? How Do I make it ok?
> 
> I am going to be very honest here yes. We are starting to consider if it is best to let this continue. It hurts so bad to put it out there. I am in tears as I write this. It makes my hurt ache, I mean literally my chest hurts so bad at admitting it. We are going to be trying a new tactic with meds and special care. I won't get into treatment because that is not the case. He is getting the best. We plan on doing this until at least January than reevaluate. That is as long as he does not get worse.
> 
> I have to consider what is right for him. NOT me, what is best for my sweet little boy who has been so through so much. Not what is easy or best for me. I have to put him first before myself.


:tears2:

You are facing the necessary questions as best that any loving owner can manage. I applaud you for your courage and especially your unfailing love of/care for Ringo. What you've done for that sweet boy for so long is absolutely amazing. 

My positive thoughts/prayers are with you and Ringo. ray: I'm sending mental (virtual) hugs to both of you. :hug2: (I'm also mentally cradling Ringo in my arms, offering him extra kisses--although he already knows how well-loved and blessed that he is.)

Jenk


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## BlueGiants (Sep 15, 2008)

Oh man, this is themost impossiblething to go through. I'm so sorry for you and Ringo. You have my sincerest admiration, regardless of what happens. You have done everything possible for him.

You have really given this a lot of thought. And giving Ringo and yourself til January is a good idea. You have both been through so much. Take it one step at a time.

:hug: {{{HUGS}}} to you (and Ringo) during such a rough time...


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## JadeIcing (Sep 15, 2008)

*Luvmyzoocrew wrote: *


> oh my i am so sorry that you even have to contenplate this. I admire that you want to do what is best for him and not you, sometimes that is so hard for us to do for our babies. I am glad to see that you are at least giving it sometime and then reevalutating it. I am so sorry and HUGS to you guys and especially to Ringo.


Thank you. I think I mostly posted this for support and to let everyone know. I will be keeping it updated with his progress or lack there of. Right now he is sleeping in his litterpan.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 15, 2008)

*Jenk wrote: *


> *JadeIcing wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I recently was very ill. I was so dizzy I actually fell. My head was spinning so bad I couldn't fuction. I was being helped even to the bathroom. It made me feel so guilty because that is what my sweet little boy is going through. How can I continue to make him go through this? How Do I make it ok?
> ...



Thanks. He is so loved. Everyone who meets him falls in love. 


[align=center][font="Comic Sans MS,sans-serif"]*Something I wrote on his second gotcha day*[/font][/align]
[align=center][font="Comic Sans MS,sans-serif"]*Ringo Starr today is your day. You have graced our lives for two years. We have cried and laughed with you in that time. Some of the moments we were not sure if we would have you the next day. I held you in my arms never letting go. For two weeks I slept an hour here and there making sure you stayed with us, I would do it again with out a second thought. Some how you have always pulled through, showing us your strength. *[/font][/align][font="Comic Sans MS,sans-serif"]
[align=center][font="Comic Sans MS,sans-serif"]*We watched as the others have rejected you yet you still continue to seek them out. You have never let anything change your spirit. Never a [font="Comic Sans MS,sans-serif"]mean action from you just love. [/font]*[/font][/align]
[align=center][font="Comic Sans MS,sans-serif"]*Each time you see us you go insane. Bunny 500 hundred could not describe your joy when someone visits you. Demanding does not cover how much you want to be petted.*[/font][/align]
[align=center][/font][font="Comic Sans MS,sans-serif"]*I know you were not my first choice but you were ment to be part of our lives. You will always be are first child. The one that needs us the most. We will always move heaven and earth to make sure you are cared for.*[/font][/align]
[align=center][font="Comic Sans MS,sans-serif"]*Iknow you miss Samantha and how she would lay near you when no one else would. I am sure she is watching out for you and waiting for the day you guys can trully be with each other. Just make sure it is a long way off.*[/font][/align]
[align=center][font="Comic Sans MS,sans-serif"]*Ringo Starr are little miracle pig, our first, and no way are last we love you more than anything. *[/font][/align]

[align=center]*Something I wrote on his third gotcha day...*[/align]
[align=center]*Ringo Starr 

Today is your day Ringo Starr. I have said time and again, I have called you my little miracle. You are a miracle. You are one to me and to all of our family. Also to so many who have never met you. All they have heard is the words I have posted. All they have seen is the pictures I have posted. With just that you have captured their hearts, the same way you do with everyone who has met you. 

Three years ago I was so upset because I would soon be leaving my home and had to leave my family dogs behind. I looked into getting a dog but it didn't seem like it would work out. So I made a call to Dave's Pet Food City. I had heard they sometimes carried rabbits, and turns out they had a few. Since Daddy kept saying he wanted one, why not. 

So when Daddy came to pick me up, off we went to check out these bunnies. I first saw this little lionhead, but he was taken. So I went over to where daddy was looking at these bunnies. I saw one that had more black on him but daddy had eyes for only you. So home you came with us. You sat on my lap as we drove to our new life. 

In those three years so much has happened, but somehow we have made it through. You are a bunny who has a family that spans the whole world. From our CT to Alaska. From Canada to China. From the UK to New Zealand. You are loved, nothing can or ever will change that. 

Happy Gotcha Day! 
Ringo Starr 

AKA 
Dingo Butt 

BKA 
Ringo Dingo *[/align]


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## JadeIcing (Sep 15, 2008)

*BlueGiants wrote: *


> Oh man, this is themost impossiblething to go through. I'm so sorry for you and Ringo. You have my sincerest admiration, regardless of what happens. You have done everything possible for him.
> 
> You have really given this a lot of thought. And giving Ringo and yourself til January is a good idea. You have both been through so much. Take it one step at a time.
> 
> :hug: {{{HUGS}}} to you (and Ringo) during such a rough time...


It is. We have both sat here in tears so many times the last few weeks. My husband almost shuts down and just climbs into his pen with him. I think he is taking this ALOT harder than I am which is not easy.


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## Bo B Bunny (Sep 15, 2008)

Oh gosh. I am so sorry this is getting so bad. I think when they are happy, and alert and all that - it's so much harder to know what to do.

I will say this: Ringo has had a far better, much longer, extremely loved little life since you took him. You gave him all you could and more! When you know for sure - keep with you that he didn't suffer alone, or uncared for and that his life meant a lot to others. He has touched so many people all over the world.

*hugs*


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## Maureen Las (Sep 15, 2008)

I think that you are doing everything possible for him and beyond...........

:sickbunny:
I'm not sure how you could safely have him free-roam when he could start to roll at any time

I am wondering if you would consider getting someone to come into your place while you are at work to check on him? Would that be possible?

you are doing a fantastic job ..really great! You are extremely knowlegeable about his condition
I also would be sharing the same concerns re. the future as you are.

maybe post more often for support :hug:
You're a wonderful bunny mom!!!


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## mouse_chalk (Sep 15, 2008)

Oh no, I'm so sorry you have to go through all this.  I wish there was something I could do to make it better for you! I know that Ringo is so lucky to have you. He gets so much love and care, I don't think that he could have ended up in a better home. 

I really, really hope that things improve for him and you don't have to think about that decision, but if you do, you know that we are all here to support you no matter what, and we all think you're an amazing bunny mum.

I'm keeping you and Ringo in my thoughts :hug:

xx


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## polly (Sep 15, 2008)

I am so sorry Alicia its a decision I had to make with Dido and it was a horrific decison to make but at the end of the day i felt it was unfair to him as I couldn't be on hand to take care of him because of work. 

No matter which decision you end up making just bear in mind his life with you is wonderful and you are acting in his best interests. not many would go through what you have with him :hug:


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## Bassetluv (Sep 15, 2008)

Oh Ali, it can just be so terribly difficult taking care of a special needs rabbit, can't it...because the question is always there...'am I doing the right thing for him'. But even moreso, seeinga beloved petstruggling can be extremely draining, bothemotionally and physically. You have gone above and beyond for Ringo from day one because of your love for him, and no wonder; he is such a darling little boy.

Iwould suggest that what you do is determine how much quality of life he still has. Obviously he still does enjoy life and does still enjoy the three A's...my suggestion of assessment at this point would be that if his episodes begin to outweigh the good times,if he cannot maintain equilibrium _and_ seems to be suffering from it, and if he cannot be made comfortable enough to continue enjoying his life, then you might need to decide whether it is worth it for him to continue.

When I was dealing with Raph, he had good days and bad days. Good days were him being alert and active (despite his inability to move or sit up unassisted), and him expressing his usual 'give me my dinner, I'm _hungry_!' or his stretched out and sighing as I rubbed his face and ears, and gave him body massages, and bobbing his head up and down excitedly when he would see me or Anna. His bad days consisted of my being able to see pain in his eyes, or his appetite waning somewhat, and of sporadic full-body muscle spasms...and those days tore me to pieces. And having (briefly) owned a rabbit with head tilt a long time ago, I can understand how heartwrenching it is to see Ringo when he has an episode. With Raph though, my emotions were on a constant roller coaster ride, and I questioned myself constantly because I did not want to see him suffer in any way, or prolong his life because I couldn't let go. I found it difficult to know what the right decision was, especially during the first few months - and esp. with others around me saying that he needed to be put down. But I decided that Raph would let me know when it was time...through his eyes and through the measurement of how much time was quality time vs. 'bad days'. 

And I know this will be a hard factor as well, but you do have to consider your own emotional limits. One thingI learned from Raph - and this will sound very odd, but he somehow communicated this to me not long before he left this world - is that these special needs rabbits understand completely what we are going through in caring for them. They feel the love that we hold for them, and they know that their human is doing everything they can to keep them comfortable, safe, and loved. But they are also acutely aware of our own emotional suffering, and _if _the decision to let them go is made, they are okay with it, and they understand completely. That is what Raph 'told' me in my final hours with him, when I held his little body and rocked him on the swingset in the backyard. It gave me a great deal of peace during a time when I was constantly questioning myself, and was wrestling with an extremely hard decision.

I wish I had something better to suggest, or some sage words of advice. Truthfully though, it is such a personal thing, a relationship between a human and their little charge. As an outsider looking in, just reading what you wrote about Ringo suggests to me that hemay still enjoying hislife. If the rolling cannot be controlled enough so he can continue to enjoy himself, then you will need to determine that.But only you can tell for sure...you and Ringo.

My heart truly goes out to you...though I do know that whatever you decide to follow with Ringo, you will be making the decision that is right for him. He chose you to be his 'mom' with good reason...and he is extremely blessed.

(((HUGE HUGS))) for Ringo and for you....:hug2:


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## JadeIcing (Sep 15, 2008)

*Bo B Bunny wrote: *


> Oh gosh. I am so sorry this is getting so bad. I think when they are happy, and alert and all that - it's so much harder to know what to do.
> 
> I will say this: Ringo has had a far better, much longer, extremely loved little life since you took him. You gave him all you could and more! When you know for sure - keep with you that he didn't suffer alone, or uncared for and that his life meant a lot to others. He has touched so many people all over the world.
> 
> *hugs*



I know that in my head but my heart feels like I am letting him down.Right now he was running around. Than stopped and ate some of his pumpkin and oats. Now he is sleeping in his litter pan again. 

I have been watching him all day. For the most part he sleeps, he runs around alittle.5 rolling episodes since 7am.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 15, 2008)

*angieluv wrote: *


> I am wondering if you would consider getting someone to come into your place while you are at work to check on him? Would that be possible?
> 
> maybe post more often for support :hug:
> You're a wonderful bunny mom!!!




I wish but one of the things I hate is I have no one here. My family is a good half hour as is my husbands. We work the same hours, we aren't away from him more than 9hours at most. When he is really bad my brother comes and stays with us to keep and eye on him. Gotta love a brother like that.

That is why I posted it. I couldn't anymore and I knew everyone here would stand by me.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 15, 2008)

*mouse_chalk wrote: *


> Oh no, I'm so sorry you have to go through all this.  I wish there was something I could do to make it better for you! I know that Ringo is so lucky to have you. He gets so much love and care, I don't think that he could have ended up in a better home.
> 
> I really, really hope that things improve for him and you don't have to think about that decision, but if you do, you know that we are all here to support you no matter what, and we all think you're an amazing bunny mum.
> 
> ...



Thanks that support is the best thing you could give me. 

An hes eatting again.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 15, 2008)

*polly wrote: *


> I am so sorry Alicia its a decision I had to make with Dido and it was a horrific decison to make but at the end of the day i felt it was unfair to him as I couldn't be on hand to take care of him because of work.
> 
> No matter which decision you end up making just bear in mind his life with you is wonderful and you are acting in his best interests. not many would go through what you have with him :hug:


Thanks. It helps to have people who understand.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 15, 2008)

*Bassetluv wrote: *


> Oh Ali, it can just be so terribly difficult taking care of a special needs rabbit, can't it...because the question is always there...'am I doing the right thing for him'. But even moreso, seeinga beloved petstruggling can be extremely draining, bothemotionally and physically. You have gone above and beyond for Ringo from day one because of your love for him, and no wonder; he is such a darling little boy.





> When we brought him home it was up to us that he got the best care possible. Nothing but the best that we could give him.





> Iwould suggest that what you do is determine how much quality of life he still has. Obviously he still does enjoy life and does still enjoy the three A's...my suggestion of assessment at this point would be that if his episodes begin to outweigh the good times,if he cannot maintain equilibrium _and_ seems to be suffering from it, and if he cannot be made comfortable enough to continue enjoying his life, then you might need to decide whether it is worth it for him to continue.





> That is what I keep weighing do his bad days outnumber his good. That he rolls everyday. Yes but how does he react to it. Does he stop or does he get up and take off running. Yes he has rolled today but he is still his piggy speed demon but lazy self.





> When I was dealing with Raph, he had good days and bad days. Good days were him being alert and active (despite his inability to move or sit up unassisted), and him expressing his usual 'give me my dinner, I'm _hungry_!' or his stretched out and sighing as I rubbed his face and ears, and gave him body massages, and bobbing his head up and down excitedly when he would see me or Anna. His bad days consisted of my being able to see pain in his eyes, or his appetite waning somewhat, and of sporadic full-body muscle spasms...and those days tore me to pieces. And having (briefly) owned a rabbit with head tilt a long time ago, I can understand how heartwrenching it is to see Ringo when he has an episode. With Raph though, my emotions were on a constant roller coaster ride, and I questioned myself constantly because I did not want to see him suffer in any way, or prolong his life because I couldn't let go. I found it difficult to know what the right decision was, especially during the first few months - and esp. with others around me saying that he needed to be put down. But I decided that Raph would let me know when it was time...through his eyes and through the measurement of how much time was quality time vs. 'bad days'.





> I have known for a long time Ringo would be quality of life vs quantity of life and it hurt. I am in so much agony when he rolls but than he does something like this[/ur] and I know there is still hope.http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=38351&forum_id=1





> And I know this will be a hard factor as well, but you do have to consider your own emotional limits. One thingI learned from Raph - and this will sound very odd, but he somehow communicated this to me not long before he left this world - is that these special needs rabbits understand completely what we are going through in caring for them. They feel the love that we hold for them, and they know that their human is doing everything they can to keep them comfortable, safe, and loved. But they are also acutely aware of our own emotional suffering, and _if _the decision to let them go is made, they are okay with it, and they understand completely. That is what Raph 'told' me in my final hours with him, when I held his little body and rocked him on the swingset in the backyard. It gave me a great deal of peace during a time when I was constantly questioning myself, and was wrestling with an extremely hard decision.





> I have always believed Ringo knows that I am doing it for him. If he didn't I think he would have come to hate me being near him. Not demand pets after I have been cleaning his ears.





> I wish I had something better to suggest, or some sage words of advice. Truthfully though, it is such a personal thing, a relationship between a human and their little charge. As an outsider looking in, just reading what you wrote about Ringo suggests to me that hemay still enjoying hislife. If the rolling cannot be controlled enough so he can continue to enjoy himself, then you will need to determine that.But only you can tell for sure...you and Ringo.





> You helped more than you know. I knew you would be one who trully understood what I am feeling and how hard it is.





> My heart truly goes out to you...though I do know that whatever you decide to follow with Ringo, you will be making the decision that is right for him. He chose you to be his 'mom' with good reason...and he is extremely blessed.
> 
> (((HUGE HUGS))) for Ringo and for you....:hug2:


Thank you these hugs mean so much to me and Ringo. I think my husband will be posting here soon.


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## undergunfire (Sep 15, 2008)

I am in tears reading through all this. The loss of Ringo will be a hard one, it's like losing one of my own. I don't know what else to say, I am probably not in the best state right now to say much words (had to stay home from work because of panic attack all night)....but I know you and Rob will make the best decision for Ringo.

*hugs* x's a bajillion.

:hug:


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## JadeIcing (Sep 15, 2008)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> I am in tears reading through all this. The loss of Ringo will be a hard one, it's like losing one of my own. I don't know what else to say, I am probably not in the best state right now to say much words (had to stay home from work because of panic attack all night)....but I know you and Rob will make the best decision for Ringo.
> 
> *hugs* x's a bajillion.
> 
> :hug:



Thanks Amy. I know I can alway count on you. Your animals have become mine and mine yours. We love them all. Hopefully he has awhile more with us. 

Its funny. I know that if I have to make the choice to put him down. My parents, brother grandma and a few others want to be there. He is a part of so many people.


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## slavetoabunny (Sep 15, 2008)

I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this. Ringo is such a fortunate bunny to have such a devoted caretaker. I know in the end you will do the right thing for him. I'll be keeping you and Ringo in my thoughts. :hug:


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## Leaf (Sep 15, 2008)

*JadeIcing wrote:*




> 7. The ridicule of family and friends - ...
> 
> This I thank god that only a handful have not been supportive. *Between my parents, brother and grandma I have the biggest support on everything that concerns him. Plus this forum and other rabbit groups.*
> 
> ...



How about some webcams?


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## JadeIcing (Sep 15, 2008)

*slavetoabunny wrote: *


> I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this. Ringo is such a fortunate bunny to have such a devoted caretaker. I know in the end you will do the right thing for him. I'll be keeping you and Ringo in my thoughts. :hug:


Thank you.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 15, 2008)

*I have been considering that. Have to figure a few things. If gas went down I would come home on our half. :?*

*Leaf wrote: *


> *JadeIcing wrote:*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## JadeIcing (Sep 15, 2008)

By the way the new pen went into effect yesterday. Have to say I am seeing less rolling. We also plan on making it bigger as soon as we can. :biggrin2:


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## TinysMom (Sep 15, 2008)

I've been working most of today and not had a chance to reply to this.

Ali - I know you & I have talked a lot. I've had bunnies w/ wry neck that didn't roll - and some that did. Its really really hard when they roll constantly and there is always this fear of "what if??". I know exactly where you are coming from....but I have not had to deal with this for as long as you have dealt with it. I didn't realize he'd been ill that long....

I will say that Hyacinth has only been ill a little over a week - and I'm already emotionally and physically exhausted. The ups and downs of treating her and watching her get better - then start rolling again - is really taking a toll on me. I can't imagine how you are handling it.

I told you that today Hyacinth was going to be in a 1 X 1 NIC pen with a NIC panel for the cover. I also gave her pain meds before I left to work...so she'd relax.

IT WORKED!

It looked like she mostly slept while we were gone...and when Robin picked her up and put her on the bed - she drank a bunch of water and started eating cheerios and oatmeal and licking Robin's shirt. She's definitely doing much better than she was - and to be honest with you - it was a major relief to me to know that she was in such a small space and could not really hurt herself. 

She was happy to see us -but she didn't seem stressed from her time in the pen at all.

You will definitely be in my thoughts and prayers - and as always - my inbox is open...

Only you and your hubby can know what is best for Ringo - you are the ones who live with him and see him on a day by day basis. Sometimes - the kindest thing we can do for those we love - is to let them go. I never understood for the longest time and I still struggle with it now.

I believe you'll know what to do - and when to do it.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 15, 2008)

The first was before zithromax the second was after. About a year ago. His head was very tilted than got alittle better. Now it is alittle worse. 







This is before the tilt. Some just before. Can you guys see his head straight?





















His first cage. That was maybe a month into having him.






second






third


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## JadeIcing (Sep 15, 2008)

hmm I see I have to size these. I don't think I have the energy to do it that now. Sorry.


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## Pipp (Sep 15, 2008)

I haven't had time to read through this whole thread, but what about baffles? Instead of clearing an area to make sure he doesn't bump into anything, put in a series of padded baffles so he can still run around but he can't roll more than a foot or two. 

So sorry you're dealing with this on one hand, but on the other, I'm so happy Ringo has you to deal with it. He's in great hands. 


sas :hug:


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Sep 15, 2008)

can i ask what is rolling, like what do they do when they roll, do they roll around literaly? I know nothing about head tilt, i imagine that it is where their balance, equilibrium, is off?


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## JadeIcing (Sep 15, 2008)

*Luvmyzoocrew wrote: *


> can i ask what is rolling, like what do they do when they roll, do they roll around literaly? I know nothing about head tilt, i imagine that it is where their balance, equilibrium, is off?


I think I have video. I will hunt it up.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 15, 2008)

Not the best one. Old but just picture that again and again.


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## Bassetluv (Sep 15, 2008)

> How about some webcams?



Oh gosh, I never even thought to suggest that, and yet I knew someone several years ago who had done that very thing for his dog. He worked away from home and his dog suffered from severe epilepsy...despite having him on all sorts of meds, every so often a huge seizure would happen. So he installed a webcam in the room where his dog stayed during the day and he monitored it, ready to take off and rush his dog to the vet if anything happened. It's not a bad idea if you can do it...


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## undergunfire (Sep 15, 2008)

That is scary, Alicia. I have never seen anything like that.


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## ToastyRob (Sep 15, 2008)

So. What do I say?

I still remember the day we brought Ringo home. Getting him set up in his first tiny cage. Looking back, I see all the signs we missed way back then. Many times I feel like I failed him. So many times I wish I could go back in time and try to treat his illness better, instead of just brushing off the sneezing.

I know he'd do best where he could just befree range all the time. But there's nowhere for him. My parents won't take an animal in, not permanently. And Ali's parents don't have the room for _another_ animal, especially a full-time free range bunny. And we can't do it here. Not with all the others around too.

We've put the whole "putting him to sleep" option on the table, re-evaluating his health in January. And coming up with ways to help him heal. But.....I don't know.....

Losing Ringo is the hardest thing I can imagine. He's the only one I chose, he's the only one I bonded with......he's the only one I _wanted_.

Or maybe I'm just being selfish......



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ali's hubby-bunny


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## TinysMom (Sep 15, 2008)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> Not the best one. Old but just picture that again and again.


That is actually pretty mild - like Ali says - picture them doing it over and over again and not being able to stop.

Hyacinth (and New Hope before her and others) will actually do a 360 degree roll several times if I'm not there to stop her. If she is in a basket - she'll actually flip up into the air and out of the basket- twisting her body the whole time to try and stop the roll.

Of course - she can go hours without rolling now - she seems mainly to start rolling as her meds wear off or if she's not drinking enough. 

The thing to remember is....Hyacinth's head tilt is obviously from an ear infection (we saw the pus in her ear). Hers can be treated and she can hopefully recover. 

Puck lived with head tilt for over a year - he looked funny - but other than two bad bouts - he didn't roll much at all - he just sorta looked funny and ran funny. 

I've had head tilt bunnies mainly have "bouts" of a week or two where they roll continually - I haven't had to face it for as long a period of time as Ali has.....I honestly don't know how she has survived with it because it is so stressful.

I would offer to take a video of Hyacinth but the fact is - I don't want to be videotaping her rolling - I want to be stopping it - because her heart pounds really fast and she breathes hard and I just feel the stress and strain of rolling isn't good for her heart....


----------



## Jenk (Sep 15, 2008)

*RPerrotti wrote: *


> We've put the whole "putting him to sleep" option on the table, re-evaluating his health in January. And coming up with ways to help him heal. But.....I don't know.....
> 
> Losing Ringo is the hardest thing I can imagine. He's the only one I chose, he's the only one I bonded with......he's the only one I _wanted_.
> 
> Or maybe I'm just being selfish......


When it comes to making such a "decision"--oftentimes whenwe feel as though we've noother choice--everyone is selfish in some way. It's hard letting go on so many levels. Even just _considering_ the thought can be emotionally paralyzing.

My heart goes out to you, Ali, Ringo and Crew. I know how hard these "What-If" scenarios are, and my heart aches that you guys are experiencing such a moment in time.

Mypositive thoughts and prayers continue forall of you....ray:

Jenk


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## Maureen Las (Sep 15, 2008)

I just watched the video

I feel sad for him but especially for you ..

I can hear the love you feel for him in your voice (reminds me of myself)
I think you'll know when it's time for him 
I'm so sorry.....


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## naturestee (Sep 15, 2008)

I'm so sorry Alicia. There's really nothing I can say as I've never had to make a choice like this. You know your boy and I think you'll make the right choice, what/whenever that may be. 

:hug:


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## Bassetluv (Sep 16, 2008)

> Or maybe I'm just being selfish......



No, not selfish...I think it's that your heart is overflowing with love. Once touched with an unconditional love so deep, the thought of letting go causes immense heartache. Ringo has touched your 'heartlight'...:hug:

I'm still sending tons of prayers for Ringo, and for you and Ali...


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Sep 16, 2008)

wow i just watched the video and all i can say is wow, i would be so upset watching him go around like that again and again. I hope he gets better, but we are all here for you while you are going through this. He is a loved bunny that has had a great life, when others might have given up on him you didnt , and he has had over two years of loving care from you. You have done alot for him and we all know that you two love him to pieces. Hugs to the both of you and especially Ringo


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## JadeIcing (Sep 16, 2008)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> I've been working most of today and not had a chance to reply to this.
> 
> Ali - I know you & I have talked a lot. I've had bunnies w/ wry neck that didn't roll - and some that did. Its really really hard when they roll constantly and there is always this fear of "what if??". I know exactly where you are coming from....but I have not had to deal with this for as long as you have dealt with it. I didn't realize he'd been ill that long....
> 
> ...



Yea its been a very long time. 

We are going to make a mini pen maybe 2x2 for him with bumper. 

We are going to keep trying. I don't see us giving up. I am just seeing that it is taking him longer each time to bounce back.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 16, 2008)

*Pipp wrote: *


> I haven't had time to read through this whole thread, but what about baffles? Instead of clearing an area to make sure he doesn't bump into anything, put in a series of padded baffles so he can still run around but he can't roll more than a foot or two.
> 
> So sorry you're dealing with this on one hand, but on the other, I'm so happy Ringo has you to deal with it. He's in great hands.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I hate saying it because feels like I am blowing my own horn but I do know this where we got him he was lucky to have come home with us. I say a prayer every night for the other bunnies he was with.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 16, 2008)

*undergunfire wrote: *


> That is scary, Alicia. I have never seen anything like that.


I pray you never do. It is so horrible. That is nothing compared to what he does now. I hope I get a new memory card soon so I can record what it is like now.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 16, 2008)

*RPerrotti wrote: *


> So. What do I say?
> 
> I still remember the day we brought Ringo home. Getting him set up in his first tiny cage. Looking back, I see all the signs we missed way back then. Many times I feel like I failed him. So many times I wish I could go back in time and try to treat his illness better, instead of just brushing off the sneezing.





> We both kick ourselves for the time wasted. I do say this the same day I knew it was bad I was calling vets and set an appt up.





> I know he'd do best where he could just befree range all the time. But there's nowhere for him. My parents won't take an animal in, not permanently. And Ali's parents don't have the room for _another_ animal, especially a full-time free range bunny. And we can't do it here. Not with all the others around too.





> We also have to keep in mind he gets stressed if I am away to long.





> We've put the whole "putting him to sleep" option on the table, re-evaluating his health in January. And coming up with ways to help him heal. But.....I don't know.....





> We just take it one step.





> Losing Ringo is the hardest thing I can imagine. He's the only one I chose, he's the only one I bonded with......he's the only one I _wanted_.
> 
> Or maybe I'm just being selfish......




I am telling Wyatt.  Hey YOU wanted him. You held Connor and said yes. You agreed to getting Teresa a friend to bond with(Dallas). Elvis..ok that was me. Chibi me. Teresa that was both. Apple you said yes. Sam was your friends idea of a housewarming gift.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 16, 2008)

*TinysMom wrote: *


> *JadeIcing wrote: *





> Not the best one. Old but just picture that again and again.





> That is actually pretty mild - like Ali says - picture them doing it over and over again and not being able to stop.





> What she said.





> Puck lived with head tilt for over a year - he looked funny - but other than two bad bouts - he didn't roll much at all - he just sorta looked funny and ran funny.





> That is what he is usually like. Bad bout usually in June to July. Than good. I think it is the change in weather. Than when we lost power and had no air...I think it just didn't let him fully recover.





> I've had head tilt bunnies mainly have "bouts" of a week or two where they roll continually - I haven't had to face it for as long a period of time as Ali has.....I honestly don't know how she has survived with it because it is so stressful.


I don't know how either.


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## tonyshuman (Sep 16, 2008)

I don't know if this is an option, but what about bringing a friend for him into the picture? I have heard that a "nurse-bunny" can really make life better for an ill bunny. I know he was bonded to Samantha, but I don't know if it's an option to rebond him with someone new that can take care of them. It's just that with Rex's passing I looked back at the blog and saw how helpful he was to Peanut when she had tilt, and I remember Randy talking about "nurse-bunnies" before, I think. Completely a shot in the dark, but I wonder if it might help.

In any case, you will know when it is time. He will tell you when the happy moments stop outweighing the bad ones. I want to give you and your husband support in this decision, because I know you are wonderfully caring bunny-people. ink iris::hug1


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## JadeIcing (Sep 16, 2008)

*tonyshuman wrote: *


> I don't know if this is an option, but what about bringing a friend for him into the picture? I have heard that a "nurse-bunny" can really make life better for an ill bunny. I know he was bonded to Samantha, but I don't know if it's an option to rebond him with someone new that can take care of them. It's just that with Rex's passing I looked back at the blog and saw how helpful he was to Peanut when she had tilt, and I remember Randy talking about "nurse-bunnies" before, I think. Completely a shot in the dark, but I wonder if it might help.
> 
> In any case, you will know when it is time. He will tell you when the happy moments stop outweighing the bad ones. I want to give you and your husband support in this decision, because I know you are wonderfully caring bunny-people. ink iris::hug1




I think it could. We have considered it but so far only Apple tolerates him. She can not be fixed until January. :grumpy:I have to raise alittle more for her spay and raise my vacation time so I can be off with her. NO WAY will she go in and I won't be home for her. I have been with EVERY ONE so far and that won't change. Than comes into play he is not fixed. He um will try to mount and when he does it throws him off. He will mount anything.... his stuffed friends, the dog, your foot....your head.:biggrin2:



Thank you.


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## AngelnSnuffy (Sep 17, 2008)

Oh Ali, I'm so sorry for you and poor Ringo. How is he doing? I pray he levels out and is okay. Pretty boy! Know I'm thinking of you guys.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 17, 2008)

Just had a bad rolling episode and I leave to work in an hour.:?


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## Jenk (Sep 17, 2008)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> Just had a bad rolling episode and I leave to work in an hour.:?


:hug2: Sending more positive vibes for a low-key, non-rolling day for Ringo.


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## Maureen Las (Sep 17, 2008)

:hug:it's so hard to leave the house when they aren't well...:grouphug


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## JadeIcing (Sep 17, 2008)

So I just got home and he was sitting in the litter pan. 

"Ringo come here." 

*glare*

"Come here Ringo.

*glare*

*grab papaya tablets (m)*

*Ears go straight up(r)*

*shake(m)*

*lean forward(r)*

*open(m)*

*Lean forward more(r)*

*take one out (m)*

*runs over snatch & takes off (R)*


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## Leaf (Sep 17, 2008)

He's got you trained WELL!


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## Bo B Bunny (Sep 17, 2008)

Awww what a sweetheart! he wanted his poopeyeA.... yep, that's what we call it..... 

He's your heart bunny, Ali. It's not selfish to love him and want him to be with you.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 17, 2008)

Heart bunny. I have come to learn that my heart has many. Each for his or her own reason. Everyone. Though Connor is my baby. Ringo well we bonded during his illness.


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## NZminilops (Sep 17, 2008)




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## tonyshuman (Sep 18, 2008)

[align=center]When your heart is so big, it can have many bunnies.
[/align][align=center]:bunnyheart:bunnyheart:bunnyheart:bunnyheart:bunnyheart
[/align]


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## JimD (Sep 18, 2008)

ray:


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## Bassetluv (Sep 18, 2008)

> When your heart is so big, it can have many bunnies.



Amen to that. ray:


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## LuvaBun (Sep 18, 2008)

I wish I could offer some advice, or words of hope, but I can only say that I think that the way you two have cared for/loved Ringo is an inspiration to anyone with a rabbit with a long term illness.

You know we all think the world of Ringo, and are so glad that he is in such capable hands. Whatever you decide to do, we know it will be in HIS best interests. And you know we will all be here for you, whatever..!

Jan


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## JadeIcing (Sep 18, 2008)

I have to say having this thread has done wonders for us. Honestly it makes us feel we are not alone.


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## Maureen Las (Sep 18, 2008)

The forum helps alot

The night I had Babette PTS I felt the most understood on RO about my feelings about her than I did with ANYBODY else...

We basically all feel the same about our rabbits and so it"s easy to feel the pain of someone else going through situations that we have either been through with our own rabbits or are afraid that we will go through sometime in the future

rabbits are hard :hug2:....

you've really taken good care of Ringo


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## JadeIcing (Sep 19, 2008)

I was in the store where we got Ringo yesterday. I had to go see the bunnies. They had one of the Marshals Farms rabbits for sale.He or she was a harlequin lop. The white and black harly. I called to it and it looked down its nose at me than gave me the butt. I wanted to hug the poor thing. 

It reminded me of so many things, one being the day I got Dingo. Man it seems like so long ago. Honestly that store is not in the best area and most think that any pet is disposable. I thank god Ringo came home with us but I always wonder what happened to the others. Did they find a good home? You get the idea. Of course I think about Connors litter too. But Dingos litter breaks my heart what happened to the one I wanted. Why didn't I take that one too. 

I know that I wanted to be smart. One bunny. I didn't know anything about them. I wasn't moving in for a few months, the wedding but I still wish I had taken that bunny too.


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Sep 19, 2008)

*angieluv wrote: *


> The forum helps alot
> 
> The night I had Babette PTS I felt the most understood on RO about my feelings about her than I did with ANYBODY else...
> 
> ...


So true


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## Jenk (Sep 19, 2008)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> I thank god Ringo came home with us but I always wonder what happened to the others....Of course I think about Connors litter too. But Dingos litter breaks my heart what happened to the one I wanted. Why didn't I take that one too.
> 
> I know that I wanted to be smart. One bunny. I didn't know anything about them. I wasn't moving in for a few months, the wedding but I still wish I had taken that bunny too.


I think that all "bunny people" do this, torture themselves (_our_selves) with the "What If's." It can be maddening. Still, I like to think that our condern and positive hopes/prayers for those bunnies does them some good.

Last night, I dreamt that my husband and I were just moving into our home, and the people who were here before us left behind tons of cats and rabbits. The poor babes were kept within spaces in which they couldn't even turn around, much less stretch out. I woke up feeling stressed! :shock: Now if a dream can do that, it's no wonder that we can get so torqued up about all of the real animals who need saving. 

Ringo has the best home with you. Please take solace in that fact. :hug: A bun couldn't ask for any better, especially in the face of his tricky illness. So many people might've walked away from Ringo once he got sick; your willingness to treat him for what he is--_family_--is a testament to your goodness.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 21, 2008)

[align=center]RINGO[/align]
[align=left]R is for Ram*bun*ctious.[/align]
[align=left]You are always on the go, never stopping. [/align]
[align=left]I is for Intuitive[/align]
[align=left][/align]
[align=left]You seem to see things that others don't, an know that we do all we do just to help you.[/align]
[align=left]N is forNaive[/align]
[align=left][/align]
[align=left]Some how you are still naive and don't always see danger.[/align]
[align=left]G is for Gem[/align]
[align=left][/align]
[align=left]You are a gem, one of a kind simply special little guy.[/align]
[align=left]O is for Open[/align]
[align=left][/align]
[align=left]You are an open book, you hide nothing and welcome all.[/align]
[align=left][/align]


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## JadeIcing (Sep 24, 2008)

Ringo had a bad episode but had only one during the day! He was getting half a pill a day for it. We have chosen to give him half in the morning and half at night.


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## Maureen Las (Sep 24, 2008)

Awww poor little guy 

:hug:


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## JadeIcing (Sep 24, 2008)

I dont think he agrees he is playing dead bunny in the litter pan with the nice fresh hay.


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## LuvaBun (Sep 24, 2008)

Aaaahhh, the joys of being a bunny . 

Has taking the two halves helped any?

Jan


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## JadeIcing (Sep 24, 2008)

I think so. Now to call the vet and see what she says. We have only done it two days but we do see a difference. Actually I left a message.


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Sep 25, 2008)

glad to see that you are seeing a difference. Hugs to Ringo and you guys


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## LuvaBun (Sep 25, 2008)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> I think so. Now to call the vet and see what she says. We have only done it two days but we do see a difference. Actually I left a message.


That's good news . Has the vet got back to you? It would be great if having a whole tablet could help Ringo, so long as it causes nothing else.

Jan


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## JadeIcing (Sep 25, 2008)

Not yet but spoke to someone else and said the way I am doing it won't hurt him. So if it helps and doesn't hurt I don't see why not.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 29, 2008)

Ringo and Apple see how well they are together and see him at the end. Word of warning he rolls. 

I debated posting this but felt it right too.


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Sep 29, 2008)

they are two cute together, i heard the piggies wheeking,lol. I hate seeing Ringo rolling, i cant imagine how you feel to see him roll. Thank you for sharing that video.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 29, 2008)

When you hear me saying put her back, I had my hand on him.


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Sep 29, 2008)

i figured that , you sounded a lil upset/stressed, it cant be easy seeing your cutie doing that.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 29, 2008)

It is hard but I felt alittle guilty. I felt it coming on and left them together alittle longer. Though Ringo did groom her after I said it was enough so we did get that.


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## Maureen Las (Sep 29, 2008)

it's sad to watch but you're such good mom to them. I haven't had experience with tilted bunnies.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 29, 2008)

I hope you never do not fun.


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## NZminilops (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm glad you decided to share the vid. Lovely to see the Dingbat even if he's not doing so well. Yay for Dingo and Apple playing!

Headtilt is what my first bunny had and died from when I was 14, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. You're a wonderful mother to your rabbits :hug:.


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## JadeIcing (Sep 29, 2008)




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## JadeIcing (Sep 29, 2008)

Ringo right now.


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## Becca (Oct 7, 2008)

I came across this thread from angieluv who posted on my head tilt thread Here .

I am so sorry, I never really noticed about Ringo....

I watched all the videos - I'm so sorry Ali.


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## JadeIcing (Oct 7, 2008)

It's ok Becca. He is a tough little guy. Right now he is grooming.


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## Jenk (Oct 7, 2008)

*:inlove: :inlove: :inlove:*

Ringo has the cutest lil' face. (And I'm not just saying that because he shares the same eye-ring/moustache pattern as my girl, Zoe. )

Please give him more hugs and kisses for/from me. (Like I even have to ask....)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


>


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## myheart (Oct 7, 2008)

I absolutely had to say, "Awe!!!!" when Ringo was grooming on Apple. That just touched my heart to see him take care of her so sweetly. They are both so beautiful -- you must be one proud bunny-mom (and bunny-dad). 

myheart


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## AngelnSnuffy (Oct 8, 2008)

You are an awesome headtilt bun mom! Probably, one of thee best ever! You are their Angel.

I loved the videos! So sweet to see them together.

Give them both hugs and nose rubs from me!


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## JadeIcing (Oct 8, 2008)

*Jenk wrote: *


> *:inlove: :inlove: :inlove:*
> 
> Ringo has the cutest lil' face. (And I'm not just saying that because he shares the same eye-ring/moustache pattern as my girl, Zoe. )
> 
> Please give him more hugs and kisses for/from me. (Like I even have to ask....)




He has a sweet face.

I will.


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## JadeIcing (Oct 8, 2008)

*myheart wrote: *


> I absolutely had to say, "Awe!!!!" when Ringo was grooming on Apple. That just touched my heart to see him take care of her so sweetly. They are both so beautiful -- you must be one proud bunny-mom (and bunny-dad).
> 
> myheart



It is sweet to see them together. I can't wait till she is fixed. We are very proud.


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## JadeIcing (Oct 8, 2008)

*AngelnSnuffy wrote: *


> You are an awesome headtilt bun mom! Probably, one of thee best ever! You are their Angel.
> 
> I loved the videos! So sweet to see them together.
> 
> Give them both hugs and nose rubs from me!



Nah just a sucker. 

I will try and take another soon.

I will.

One thing I should mention is we plan on always having a special needs bunny. I hope it is head-tilt.


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## Bassetluv (Oct 8, 2008)

> One thing I should mention is we plan on always having a special needs bunny.  I hope it is head-tilt.



Knowing first-hand just how draining it can be (both physically and emotionally) to have a special-needs rabbit, I'd like to nominate you for bunny mom of the year...to have a rabbit who turns into a special-needs animal and care for them is so special, but to make a decision in devoting your life to always having a special-needs rabbit really does take someone who's pretty awesome. My hat's definitely off to you...:hug:


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## JadeIcing (Oct 8, 2008)

*Bassetluv wrote: *


> > One thing I should mention is we plan on always having a special needs bunny.  I hope it is head-tilt.
> 
> 
> 
> Knowing first-hand just how draining it can be (both physically and emotionally) to have a special-needs rabbit, I'd like to nominate you for bunny mom of the year...to have a rabbit who turns into a special-needs animal and care for them is so special, but to make a decision in devoting your life to always having a special-needs rabbit really does take someone who's pretty awesome. My hat's definitely off to you...:hug:


We aren't special he is. He has a way of making things seem just right.


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## Maureen Las (Oct 9, 2008)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> *Bassetluv wrote: *
> 
> 
> > > One thing I should mention is we plan on always having a special needs bunny.  I hope it is head-tilt.
> ...


That's because you :heartshim!!
You ARE special.


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## JadeIcing (Oct 9, 2008)

*angieluv wrote: *


> *JadeIcing wrote: *
> 
> 
> > *Bassetluv wrote: *
> ...



:embarrassed:

He is sleeping right now.

Off pills for a week and he is doing good!


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## Maureen Las (Oct 9, 2008)

:toastingbunsI'm Glad that he's getting his rest!!


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## JadeIcing (Oct 10, 2008)

Someone asked me somethings and I thought I would put my reponse here.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think it would be great if she bonded with someone. They say it does alot to help them. I plan on (once Apple is spayed) to have them do more play dates.

When it comes to treatment I have to say the first thing is to see exactly what is causing it. Zithromax combined with Pen G is great for pasteruella. Not sure what it would do for EC.

The one thing I have to say is watch her. Learn what works for her. I have come to learn that each is different. 

Teresa (she had it briefly) was very very sedate. She was more the typical head-tilt bunny than Ringo. She never rolled. (but refused food--added that just now.)

Ringo even at his worse when no one was sure if he would make it continued to eat. Yea I had to help him but not because he didn't want to but because he was having trouble eating. Ringo rolls but gets up and shoves things in anger.

Apple's head-tilt is because of an injury a whole different ballpark. She isn't thrown off balance by being held like most. She doesn't have good days and bad days the way he does. But if she takes to sharp of a turn with little room she will flip but get back up running.

Keep her area as open as possible. One so if she rolls she won't be banging into things. Two so that she has more room to run, which is the best for her. The more exercise the better.


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## JadeIcing (Oct 24, 2008)

This is them together. Sorry it is dark.


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## JadeIcing (Oct 24, 2008)

^ Another kind of spinning


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## tonyshuman (Oct 24, 2008)

They are so cute together. :inlove::inlove: I didn't know they were both intact though.


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## JadeIcing (Oct 25, 2008)

Yup. Every time we discuss getting Ringo fixed because he is healthy he gets sick. Apple we are waiting till we can be home with her. We were originally looking at November but some unexpected expenses cropped up. So it will be January/February.


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## JadeIcing (Nov 21, 2008)

Ringo has had more good days than bad and that helps. He also gets alot of playtime with Apple. 

She is so good for him. I am truly blessed.

Recently we had to have one of our family dogs to sleep and it showed me that we really are doing what is right for Ringo. As long as he continues on this path he has a long life ahead of him.


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## tonyshuman (Nov 21, 2008)

:hug2:


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## LuvaBun (Nov 21, 2008)

It warms my heart to hear that, Ali. I think having Apple seems to have helped him, as well as the awesome care he gets from you two. Plus, he is such a little trooper 

Jan


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## JadeIcing (Nov 22, 2008)

I think that Apple has helped him alot. I tell you I really do believe that bunnies like Ringo and Apple have a purpose.


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## mouse_chalk (Nov 22, 2008)

I'm so glad he's doing better. That makes me so happy to hear 

I think it's great that him and Apple get along so well too. The videos of them together are just so lovely 

We :hearts Ringo!!


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## JadeIcing (Nov 24, 2008)

Sweet Meadow Organic Herb and Timothy Hay

I am thinking that would be awesome for Ringo. I am looking into it for him. Anything that can help. I couldn't order it for everyone but for him yea. Ok so Apple would get some.


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## undergunfire (Nov 24, 2008)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> Sweet Meadow Organic Herb and Timothy Hay
> 
> I am thinking that would be awesome for Ringo. I am looking into it for him. Anything that can help. I couldn't order it for everyone but for him yea. Ok so Apple would get some.



Yuuum, that stuff looks nummy :biggrin2:!


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## AngelnSnuffy (Nov 25, 2008)

I love the vids of Ringo and Apple! So precious. I need more please.

I still think you're an Angel and they are special babies. I love me some Ringo!


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## JadeIcing (Nov 30, 2008)

So on a positive note Ringo got a bag of the herbal hay and seems to like it.

On a negative he has had some bad rolling episodes. Yesterday and today have been bad days. Now mind you he will be rolling in his pen, pick him up put him outside his pen to play...Not once will he roll. It is like nothing was wrong. NOT ONCE!!:?


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## Jenk (Nov 30, 2008)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> On a negative he has had some bad rolling episodes. Yesterday and today have been bad days. Now mind you he will be rolling in his pen, pick him up put him outside his pen to play...Not once will he roll. It is like nothing was wrong. NOT ONCE!!:?


Is that just a fluke, or has he learned that rolling sometimes "earns" him freedom outside of his specially-designed cage? Boy, I wouldn't be surprised if a bun would pull something like that, although Ringo's probably too honest and there's really some strange medical explanation for his normal behavior in wide-open spaces....

Jenk


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## JadeIcing (Nov 30, 2008)

*Jenk wrote: *


> *JadeIcing wrote: *
> 
> 
> > On a negative he has had some bad rolling episodes. Yesterday and today have been bad days. Now mind you he will be rolling in his pen, pick him up put him outside his pen to play...Not once will he roll. It is like nothing was wrong. NOT ONCE!!:?
> ...



I think that is part of it. He learned flopping to his side when we went to give him shots got pets, crasins and delayed the shot.

Though one way I can tell is when I call out to him if he shoves the blanket after he is angry that it happened. Which means he didn't want it to happen.


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## JadeIcing (Dec 3, 2008)

One I am going to change the title.

Two he had a good day yesterday! Right now he is sitting in his litter pan munchong on hay.


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## JadeIcing (Dec 3, 2008)

Also going to add two previous threads about Ringo here.


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## Ivory (Dec 3, 2008)

Ringo is such a sweet little bunny. Don't have much to add other than I hope he does well. I can imagine him all flopped out- makes me want to pet him! Such a beautiful little boy, and you're a beautiful person for taking care of him like you do.

I also like the look of that hay and may be buying some for Erik when he comes home!


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## JadeIcing (Dec 3, 2008)

Ringo is a LOVE! He is currently running around. 

The hay is awesome! Smells so good.:biggrin2:


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## LuvaBun (Dec 3, 2008)

I think re-naming the title was very appropriate . Not only for other rabbits that may develop head tilt, but also for their owners that may be led to believe that a head tilt bunny has no chance of a happy life. One look at Ringo (and Apple) and you know that's not the case 

Jan


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## JadeIcing (Dec 6, 2008)

Someone came by today for a bonding date but it didn't work. After that I took out Ringo and Apple. 

They were so cute. They ate and the ran around. Showing off there speed. She fell in love with Apple. (She already knows Ringo)

This is the woman that if something happened to us would take Ringo and now Apple. I know she would do everything for them and it gives me peace.


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## TinysMom (Dec 6, 2008)

I don't know if Ali has posted this anywhere in this thread - but she and I were discussing it the other night.

There's something special about a rabbit that has (or has had) head tilt. Its like...they know what good times are - and they know what bad times are....and they are so appreciative of the good times - and also appreciative of the humans who help them feel better.

I really have a heart for head tilt rabbits....they just...have something special about them. I hate that they get sick..but it seems to give them an "old soul" feel about them.

Just my .02


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## JadeIcing (Dec 9, 2008)

I just wanted to say I am so blessed to have him.


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## JadeIcing (Dec 9, 2008)

I have two more...


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## JadeIcing (Dec 9, 2008)

Hope no one minds the clothes. I just got home alittle while ago.


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## JadeIcing (Dec 9, 2008)




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## NorthernAutumn (Dec 9, 2008)

Haha! That was fun to see you with Ringo... he's so focused on those Craisins, head tilt or not!

I think tho, I liked your bunny voice the best:biggrin2:


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## JadeIcing (Dec 9, 2008)

Funny thing is that it is really with him. I do some what with the others but not really.


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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Dec 9, 2008)

*I like this one the best. He just wants treats. Mine will do that too. But they go nuts for Banana chips

JadeIcing wrote: *


> Hope no one minds the clothes. I just got home alittle while ago.


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## JadeIcing (Dec 9, 2008)

Elvis is dangerous when it comes to bannana chips. He is only allowed them if he is caged and can't go after me. :shock:


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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Dec 9, 2008)

ROFL. Thats to funny. I just hide on the bed if they come for more. HEE HEE neither one of them will jump up


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## JadeIcing (Dec 9, 2008)

*Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears wrote: *


> ROFL. Thats to funny. I just hide on the bed if they come for more. HEE HEE neither one of them will jump up


Only Elvis, Dallas, and Connor will jump on the bed.


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## slavetoabunny (Dec 9, 2008)

I love the videos! You can tell Ringo is such a happy bunny.


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## JadeIcing (Dec 9, 2008)

I picked him up to cut his nails and he was such a goof i had to share.


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## LuvaBun (Dec 9, 2008)

He's a determined little thing, isn't he 

I love how when something (inluding fingers) gets anywhere near his mouth, he's like "Ooohh food" 

Such a sweetheart

jan


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## JadeIcing (Dec 9, 2008)

*LuvaBun wrote: *


> He's a determined little thing, isn't he
> 
> I love how when something (inluding fingers) gets anywhere near his mouth, he's like "Ooohh food"
> 
> ...


Oh yea. Never hard. It is like ok not food.


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## Raspberry82 (Dec 9, 2008)

Love the videos! They're so cute and funny.. Ringo is so silly :biggrin2:.


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## Little Bay Poo (Dec 9, 2008)

I am sitting here laughing at Ringo attacking the bag of craisins :laugh:


And here I thought my Billy was feisty...
Ringo's got him beat hands down :blueribbon:


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## JadeIcing (Dec 10, 2008)

I want people to see that a bunny can continue to live a full life despite the tilt. It doesn't make him less perfect. It doesn't make him less happy than other bunnies. It just makes him special.

I also don't want people to think that I believe EVERY rabbit with head-tilt can live with it. I think that you have to give your rabbit a chance to overcome it. I do know that it isn't just you fighting, you willing the bunny to live. It is the bunny fighting to live. You make a team, you work together to get through the tough days.

Sometimes like when I started this you feel so overwhelmed. So scared, so hopeless. In those times seek out those who understand and lean on them till you get through. Sometimes those moments are short other times it is long. Just know that you will get through the muddy water and see the sunshine again. 

Maybe growing up with a brother who is bipolar and watching my mom fight every day for him to get through. To make people see that he wasn't different that he was still a kid. She fought and taught us that when something is worth fighting for you fight. To choose our battles wisely. I chose my battle. Ringo is still a bunny, he just needs a little help. 

Choosing him as my battle there are still skirmishes. Like him not getting neutered. There are risk in that but one we let slide. Him getting a little more food than he should. Well in the bad times I rather him have more weight he can afford to lose than weight he can't afford to lose. I pick and choose my battles when it comes to him. 

Ok this may be long but not finished I just have to get to work. I will continue later. I think soon I will write out the beginning of this. What it was like before I came to the forum.


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## TinysMom (Dec 10, 2008)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> I want people to see that a bunny can continue to live a full life despite the tilt. It doesn't make him less perfect. It doesn't make him less happy than other bunnies. It just makes him special.
> 
> *Oh how true this is.....my head tilt bunnies have had wonderful happy lives other than their bad episodes. I would get discouraged during their bad episodes and think, "Should I give up???" but then they would fight to get better. Each time I've lost one though - it has been because they decided to give up - they were tired or they had other issues. Otherwise - my head tilt bunnies have fought to live and enjoy life.*
> 
> ...


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## mouse_chalk (Dec 10, 2008)

I can't seem to get to the last page of this thread for some reason so I hope my reply works :shock:

I LOVE those videos! Poor Ringo being separated from his beloved craisins!!  I love your laugh as well, it's very infectious! 

He is such a special bunny, and I'm so happy to see him doing so well like this  :hug:


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## JadeIcing (Dec 11, 2008)

Peg you and I have talked so often on this it is nice to have someone who understands.


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## JadeIcing (Dec 11, 2008)

*mouse_chalk wrote: *


> I can't seem to get to the last page of this thread for some reason so I hope my reply works :shock:
> 
> I LOVE those videos! Poor Ringo being separated from his beloved craisins!!  I love your laugh as well, it's very infectious!
> 
> He is such a special bunny, and I'm so happy to see him doing so well like this  :hug:



It worked!

He is uh umm very food orientated, Why thank you. I think.:shock:



Thanks so are we.


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## JadeIcing (Dec 28, 2008)

Ringo has been off meds for about 2mnths.


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## LuvaBun (Dec 29, 2008)

Wow! That's really good, Ali. 

Have you noticed any changes in him - either for better or worse?

Jan


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## JadeIcing (Dec 29, 2008)

This is our thing from Sept-May are his best months. When June comes he starts to get bad by July he isreally bad and needs meds. Sowe may be starting him at the end of May before his bad months start. He does not deal with the change of weather at ALL.


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## murph72 (Dec 29, 2008)

Reading your experiences is like a flashback for me. I first joined this board when my Holland Lop, Pudge, was diagnosed with EC. Her head tilt went from slightly noticeable to constant rolling in two days. She too had good months that were usually in the cooler months. 

I devoted a room to her as she could not stand to be in a cage. The confinement seemed to make her rolling worse. If she could run in a big circle around the room she didn't roll as much and seemed happier. Unfortunately, my litter trained bunny no longer had the ability to make it to her litter pan. This meant that I had a ruined rug that I shampooed quite often.

Unfortunately, Pudge is no longer with us. Her stretches of good days became few and far between. My once happy bunny started grunting and stomping her feet, which told me it was time to let go. It'll be a year in February that I had her put to sleep. I knew it was the best thing for her, but it didn't make it much easier for me.

I hope you have greater success than we did. Head tilt is a bugger and I'd love to see someone spend some more time/money on finding a cure. I wish no bunny or bunny owner had to go through the ups and downs of this problem. My prayers are with you and your little one.


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## JadeIcing (Dec 29, 2008)

Thank you! It means alot. We have been fighting so long. It is a never ending battle.


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## mouse_chalk (Dec 30, 2008)

YAY! That's such great news Ali! I'm so pleased he's doing well.... 

I guess at least if you know he has these cycles, you can be a bit more prepared for it. I know it wont make it any easier but maybe a bit more comforting...

:hug: to you and Dingo!


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## JadeIcing (Dec 30, 2008)

Thanks! It means alot to know people follow his story. He is an ongoing lesson to people.


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## JadeIcing (Jan 4, 2009)

So we got somenew hay... He has ignored us since. Non stop munch on hay.


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## JadeIcing (Jan 5, 2009)

[flash=320,256]http://www.youtube.com/v/YlRoH9GGCtM[/flash]


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## Luvmyzoocrew (Jan 5, 2009)

he looks good Ali. I love the girly nail cutters,lol, and thanks for the bunny porn,lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## LuvaBun (Jan 5, 2009)

Great vid of nail clipping . But poor Ringo, having his 'bits' shown to the World . I love his binky run around after.

Glad to hear the ney hay is going down a treat 

Jan


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## mouse_chalk (Jan 5, 2009)

*Luvmyzoocrew wrote: *


> he looks good Ali. I love the girly nail cutters,lol, and thanks for the bunny porn,lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:shock:

:roflmao:


I love his running around after! Look at meeee! I'm freee!


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## Maureen Las (Jan 6, 2009)

Geez he handles nail-cutting really well.............
such a sweet boy 

you do a great job cutting nails. 
I'd never have a video done of me doing nails ; it would be a comedy :biggrin2:


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## JadeIcing (Jan 6, 2009)

My guys know they have no choice.


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## JadeIcing (Jan 9, 2009)

So I managed to find mixed dried with apples which is a hit here. I put under Ringo's pellets. He found them almost instantly. Than took off running.


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## tonyshuman (Jan 9, 2009)

Hilarious! When I first got Tony I was feeding him the horrible Kay-tee pellets with the "dental bites" which were just coarser, multicolored pellets. He would pick just these out of the pellets and leave the rest! My guys are the same way about running off with treats too. With Muffin and Tony it's to hide it from each other--it's hilarious to watch them chase each other around for an apple core, especially because they tend to drop their prize about halfway to their hiding place. You must be giving him something good if he has to go hide to enjoy it!


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## slavetoabunny (Jan 9, 2009)

You embarrassed the poor boy showing the world his boy parts! He looks like such a happy bunny.


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## JadeIcing (Jan 9, 2009)

Dingo is a happy little guy cept when he is angry than he is funny.


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## JadeIcing (Jan 10, 2009)

So when we got Ringo he was about 6mnths old count back that would be about Jan when he was born. So when we chose a "B-Day" we chose the same as my brother.... Jan 9th! So that makes him 4 years old!


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## LuvaBun (Jan 10, 2009)

arty:
HAPPY 4TH BIRTHDAY, RINGO!!!

you are special in so many ways! And loved by so many of us here 

Jan


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## mouse_chalk (Jan 10, 2009)

Happy belated birthday Ringo! :bunnydance:

:bunnieskiss << Chalk sends you a birthday kiss!


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## JadeIcing (Jan 10, 2009)




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## JadeIcing (Jan 11, 2009)

Sorry the sound isn't great.


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## LuvaBun (Jan 11, 2009)

I love it! It looks like Ringo is moving to the music, and that he's having a ball 

Jan


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## Elf Mommy (Jan 11, 2009)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


>


This is just TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Sweet!!!


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## JadeIcing (Jan 11, 2009)

I tell you my guys seem to LOVE when we put them on the couch and just let them run.


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## tonyshuman (Jan 11, 2009)

I love the b-day pics! :inlove: :birthday


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## JadeIcing (Jan 11, 2009)

I have ALOT more! I just need to post.


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## JadeIcing (Jan 11, 2009)

Another Video!


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## tonyshuman (Jan 11, 2009)

I thought of Ringo and Apple a week ago at the shelter because they have a head-tilt bunny there. She's an agouti netherland with a pretty slight tilt. She's such a sweetie. They had a cottontail cottage and she loved going up and down it, sticking her head out the windows and exploring. I cut her nails and she was not nearly as well-behaved as Ringo! She didn't trance at all so I had to hold her upright and cut one-handed, but she was a trooper. All the volunteers love her because she's so sweet. I didn't think I was up to cutting nails of the shelter bunnies (because if I mess up it's not my own bunny that's bleeding!), not to mention a special-needs shelter bunny, but I just went for it and the head-tilt girlie was the most easy-going of them all.
:inlove:


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## slavetoabunny (Jan 11, 2009)

I just love Ringo videos! He looks like he doesn't have a care in the world and his head tilt doesn't bother him at all.


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## bpotter2 (Jan 19, 2009)

Hi, just emailed but it looked like it might not have gotten through, so if I repeat myself, I apologize. I am new, just discovered this wonderful site. My bunny Twinkles started showing symptoms Dec 26th. Got him to the vets the first thing next day. Just wanted to let you know that Pipp and Randy have been incredible helping me with this. Randy recommended I ask my vet about a new drugcalled Convenia, a type of antibiotic injected onceevery 7 days. I wonder if it might not help with Ringo. 

Please look up Head Tilt, Jan16th ? and read what they have said. Love to your precious Ringo!

Kathy


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## JadeIcing (Feb 8, 2009)

So I just wanted to let everyone know that Ringo is doing great. We had vistors and like everyone else who comes here they fell in love.


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## bpotter2 (Feb 9, 2009)

You are my inspiration!!! My Twinkles is going through all of these ups and downs right now and knowing you have had success keeps me going. The worst is when Twinkles has a bad day after I thought he was progressing. I can't help thinking I might not be doing the right thing for him. Then I look at your story and relax a bit.
Ringo and all your bunnies are so lucky to have someone that loves and cares for them as you do!
Kathy


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## JadeIcing (Feb 9, 2009)

That is why I keep this thread! So thank you for letting me know that it does help.


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## JadeIcing (Feb 15, 2009)

So he sneezed today. When he sneezes my heart stops. I have him on my lap now. His nose is wet and looks like slight discharge. So now I will go get his kit and check him over. 

So nose is just wet. Ears a little messy not much at all. So I will start him on a 3week run of meds and if hes not better off to the vet. (Yea I do call her at this point she knows I know what he needs so he goes in when I think it is best.) He stresses out on drives so we avoid them at all cost.


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## JimD (Feb 15, 2009)

ray:


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## bpotter2 (Feb 15, 2009)

Poor Ringo! He's a tough little guy, he will recover quickly. I am sending healing thoughts to him.
Kathy


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## JadeIcing (Feb 15, 2009)

Thanks you too. This is just normal for us. Sad at times but normal and we survive.


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## bpotter2 (Feb 16, 2009)

How is Ringo today? What's the weather like where you are? I have found that Twinkles seems a little worse when it's cold outside. I have taken to setting the heater up a couple of degree's whenever it's cold.
All the best!
Kathy


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## JadeIcing (Feb 16, 2009)

*bpotter2 wrote: *


> How is Ringo today? What's the weather like where you are? I have found that Twinkles seems a little worse when it's cold outside. I have taken to setting the heater up a couple of degree's whenever it's cold.
> All the best!
> Kathy



Hes been napping today. He does worse in the heat. I'm telling each one of these buns are so different.


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## JadeIcing (Mar 8, 2009)




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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Mar 9, 2009)

That's a cute photo work done. But it looks like there's something wrong with with front feet cause they're chopped off 
How's Ringo doing this month?


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## JadeIcing (Mar 9, 2009)

He is alittle off but I think that is because off the weather flopping around.


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## bpotter2 (Mar 14, 2009)

How's Ringo? Hope he is doing well.
Twinkles had a great 2 weeks then had a bit of a relapse. He has been not too bad since, though. He actually sat with his head almost straight the other day! His down eye has opened half way.
Kathy


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## JadeIcing (Mar 14, 2009)

*bpotter2 wrote: *


> How's Ringo? Hope he is doing well.
> Twinkles had a great 2 weeks then had a bit of a relapse. He has been not too bad since, though. He actually sat with his head almost straight the other day! His down eye has opened half way.
> Kathy



Ringo is ok. The flip flopping weather is throwing him off. We were considering starting meds tomorrow. Still debating. We wanted to wait till April.

Glad Twinkles is doing better.


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## bpotter2 (Apr 8, 2009)

How is Ringo? Is he better?
Twinkles continues to improve. It has been a very, very long process but he was doing binkies out on the porch, racing around like a little monkey these last few days. His tilt is still around 25% but holds his head straight when he sits.
Bon Bon has been very active as well. She was chasing Twinkles out on the porch and doing binkies. We could not get her back in the house. She went out twice yesterday, once in the morning then again at 2. I asked Twinkles to go get her [he somehow understands what I say to him, uncanny] and he went out and tried 4 different times. She just hopped around him and refused. It was a gorgeous sunny, breezy day. We had to coax her in at around 8 pm! Then she did a couple of bum wiggles before chowing down her dinner. She has become quite the little princess ever since she recovered from her abscess and surgery.
Sending love to Ringo!!!
Kathy


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## JadeIcing (Apr 8, 2009)

Ringo has been doing good. We didn't start him on the meds because the weather has been so cool. We don't want to start him to soon. We need to start at just the right time.

Twinkles sounds like he is doing great.


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## bpotter2 (Apr 8, 2009)

It seems we just have to keep at it. Bunnies sure are sensitive little creatures! I keep Ringo in my thoughts and hope he will completely recover!
Kathy


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## JadeIcing (May 1, 2009)

Thought I would update. Ringo did a two week rounds of meds because we could see he was having several bad rolling bouts. We are happy to report that he has started "playing" with his "friend" again.


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## bpotter2 (May 1, 2009)

I just don't understand this illness. It's so frustrating! Poor Ringo! Why does it come back?
Twinkles was doing remarkably well, still on ChlorPalm, almost complete recovery. He was sitting and hopping with his head straight, with only the occasional tilting head, then he regressed, again to carrying his head halfway. His down eye remains half open, but his spirits are high. He scampers around everywhere, attends to Bon Bon, licks her face and neck, escorts her out on the porch. He does not seem to be sick, yet his tilt worries me.
The vet has not recommended we take him off meds yet, so we will keep at it and hope for a full recovery. If nothing changes, I am going to ask him about a new drug Randy had mentioned, a horse drug, or another antibiotic.
Good luck to you and Ringo.
Kathy


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## JadeIcing (May 1, 2009)

I wish I knew it doesn't seem like anything we do stops it. :cry2I don't get it. Sometimes I feel in some way I am failing him. 

Best wishes to Twinkles.


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## LuvaBun (May 1, 2009)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> I wish I knew it doesn't seem like anything we do stops it. :cry2I don't get it. Sometimes I feel in some way I am failing him.


Goodness, Ali, NEVER think that! you give Ringo an amazing life - one that many, many other people wouldn't have done. You just have t see his photos to know he has a great quality of life, regardless of his ups and downs.

Glad to hear that the meds helped him out. Is he still on them?

Jan


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## JadeIcing (May 1, 2009)

Thanks I just don't get why it keep coming back.

He is currently off. Though I am still cleaning his ears.


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## Wabbitdad12 (May 3, 2009)

I started reading this thread today, what a story, what an amazing bun.


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## JadeIcing (May 3, 2009)

Thank you. He is something else. Everyone who meets him falls in love.


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## anneq (May 4, 2009)

All I can say Ali is that you're an amazing person.
I can tell by the way your bunny behaves that he knows he is loved and cherished - just does my heart good in this world where so much bad news gets all the attention, but this story means there really are miracles (and people like you).


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## JadeIcing (May 4, 2009)

anneq wrote:


> All I can say Ali is that you're an amazing person.
> I can tell by the way your bunny behaves that he knows he is loved and cherished - just does my heart good in this world where so much bad news gets all the attention, but this story means there really are miracles (and people like you).



Thank you. Making me blush.


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## JadeIcing (Aug 24, 2009)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> Thought I would update. Ringo did a two week rounds of meds because we could see he was having several bad rolling bouts. We are happy to report that he has started "playing" with his "friend" again.





I can say this with joy in my heart! Ringo has not been on meds since just before I posted that on May 1st. He made it past his worse months and is doing great.


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## LuvaBun (Aug 24, 2009)

:clapping:Yay! That's great news, Ali!

Kudos to you for getting him this far 

Jan


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## JadeIcing (Aug 24, 2009)

*LuvaBun wrote: *


> :clapping:Yay! That's great news, Ali!
> 
> Kudos to you for getting him this far
> 
> Jan


:biggrin2:Thanks he is just a fighter.


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## JadeIcing (Oct 24, 2009)

Ringo is still doing awesome. We do feel he has the best control out of the three. :bunnydance:


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## JadeIcing (Nov 24, 2009)

Ok so Ringo has a slightly wet nose so instead of waiting for another episode he is getting a round of meds. 

I'm sitting herecrying. I really had my fingers crossed this time was different. It was longer but still my boy is sick again.


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## Fancy77 (Nov 24, 2009)

Oh huni I am sorry I am sure since u r so on top of things all will be better soon


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## JadeIcing (Nov 24, 2009)

*Fancy77 wrote: *


> Oh huni I am sorry I am sure since u r so on top of things all will be better soon


I know just very blah.


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## Maureen Las (Nov 24, 2009)

I'm really sorry ; I know what that feeling is ..very depressing... but I think that you are doing the right thing by starting meds agaim...


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## JadeIcing (Nov 24, 2009)

*angieluv wrote: *


> I'm really sorry ; I know what that feeling is ..very depressing... but I think that you are doing the right thing by starting meds agaim...


Thanks I know you understand.


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## Yurusumaji (Nov 24, 2009)

We'll be keeping Ringo in our thoughts. ray:

Just keep chuggin', little one.


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## JadeIcing (Nov 24, 2009)

Thank you.


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## Maureen Las (Nov 25, 2009)

*JadeIcing wrote: *


> *angieluv wrote: *
> 
> 
> > I'm really sorry ; I know what that feeling is ..very depressing... but I think that you are doing the right thing by starting meds agaim...
> ...


I do understand ; it is very stressful to go through


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## JadeIcing (Dec 19, 2009)

Special Needs Bunnies: Working With Head-Tilt


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## JadeIcing (Apr 13, 2011)

Well the meds worked and he is doing awesome. No meds since than and he is doing great.


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## JadeIcing (May 28, 2012)

Wow he is still going strong. Amazing little guy I have here.


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