# bloating in rabbits??



## mistyjr (Apr 12, 2010)

My Doe just died from bloat... I feed all my bunnies veggies, hay and pellets daily... What causes it and what to do to prevent it from my other bun's!

Thanks,


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## mistyjr (Apr 12, 2010)

But today after my doe died.. All they got was a big huge handful of Hay!!


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## mistyjr (Apr 12, 2010)

???


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## Pipp (Apr 12, 2010)

Nobody knows what causes it. I've been researching to gather more info for you (which takes a bit longer than the 30 minutes, sorry). 

Your other guys aren't in any danger, it seems to hit single rabbits. 

At any time were they eating grass? 

You can check the Library for more immediate info, I think its under Gas/Bloat or Bloat/Gas. 

There are updates to be incorporated, though. 

Sorry for your loss. 

Oh, and I've moved this to the Infirmary, I was about to start this topic there anyway.


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## mistyjr (Apr 12, 2010)

Thanks Pipp!! I would love to get more info on this and also the stuff that you have would be great too!! They get hay but it looked different then the last time I have gotten it.. But they all get it and it only did it to her..


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## pamnock (Apr 12, 2010)

Genetic predisposition and viral/bacterial due to seasonal weather changes are just a couple of the many possible causes.


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## mistyjr (Apr 12, 2010)

I was reading on the GI Stasis.. And It said that " "Rabbits are more likely to go into stasis when they are molting,"?


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## Pipp (Apr 12, 2010)

Did she eat any lawn grass? Spring grass seems to be a trigger in some buns. 

Here's Dana Krempels' theory: 

_No one is really sure about the ultimate cause of bloat. It may be bacterial at first, with Clostridium species (possibly perfringens, which produces a lot of gas) producing gas. But because the rabbit intestine just posterior to the stomach takes a very sharp turn, it appears that if the stomach has even a slight blockage or gas buildup that pinches that turn just the wrong way, an irreversible bloat can occur. The only relief is gastric gavage (sticking a tube down the throat to suction out liquid and gas) or even puncturing the stomach with a needle through the body wall.

... Dana Krempels, Ph.D_


Bloat: From: http://www.bunnylu.org/bloat.html

_Having cared for many rabbits through the years, I have witnessed GI Stasis and Bloat. There are subtle differences between the two conditions, but prompt recognition and treatment determine the outcome. Whereas GI Stasis has a prognosis of fair to good, the prognosis for bloat is poor to guarded. Unlike GI Stasis, bloat happens suddenly and without warning. One minute your bun is eating, drinking, eliminating, and playing normally, the next minute he is depressed, moribund, and stops eating, drinking, and playing. Just like that. A bunny rapidly decompensates with bloat, and immediate veterinary intervention is crucial to his survival. _

Here's the Library page those quotes came from: 

Bloat/Gas 
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=11931&forum_id=10

Our search engine sucks so bad, can't find the last article I logged on this, but it didn't have much more info other than other speculative causes like viruses and mycotoxins (which could be in the hay, but it would smell moldy). 

Hope this helps. Sorry again. 


sas :expressionless:


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## mistyjr (Apr 12, 2010)

Anf too feed more hay then pellets! I feed my rabbits lots of pellets and an hand ful of hay.. So now that I have to change all the rabbits diet.. How much feed should i feed them now?!?! Sorry you guys! Im just trying to find out what I need to do with my bunnies so this dont happen again..:tears2::bawl::thud::foreheadsmack:


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## mistyjr (Apr 12, 2010)

No! I dont feed them any grass yet this year.. I feed them fresh veggies, handful of hay, and a scoop of pellets daily.


Last night I feed them all.. 4 pieces Spinach, 2 baby carrots, and I cut 4 pieces into a banana and gave one piece to each bunny, handful of hay, and some pellets.. 

When I got in there this morning. The water bottle was full to the top.. She ate all the veggies, And the whole banana but not all of it. Didnt eat all the pellets either like she does. And didnt eat all the hay either..


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## mistyjr (Apr 12, 2010)

Another thread that I have found.. http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=28622&forum_id=10

It says molting, exercise, pellets..ect


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## Pipp (Apr 12, 2010)

pamnock wrote:


> Genetic predisposition and viral/bacterial due to seasonal weather changes are just a couple of the many possible causes.



Yes, it's possible its not actually the grass, but just the season for a virus -- the 'bloat' season like our 'flu' season. 

Spring grass, though, is also simply too rich and usually introduced too suddenly at too great of an initial volume, thus it can cause gastric upsets unrelated to bloat as well, so the grass warning is always issued. 

But bloat is one of the bigger mysteries in the bunny world. 

I'm sure you'll read that tummy massages are not recommended for bloat bunnies (critically ill rabbits with very swelled abdomens), but its unlikely that it contributed much, there really is nothing else you could have done.  


sas :sad:


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## mistyjr (Apr 12, 2010)

See, after I read that about not to message the tummy.. In my head I was thinking, Great I could have done something,, But I was just trying to help.. Like humans do when they are all gassy to rub your tummy! *Gosh*


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## Pipp (Apr 12, 2010)

mistyjr wrote:


> Another thread that I have found.. http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=28622&forum_id=10
> 
> It says molting, exercise, pellets..ect



This is the treatment for GAS. This is different from BLOAT. 

Check the Library link. 

If she was molting or in poor coat, this might fall under Dana Krempel's theory that sometimes in some bunnies a small blockage or a little gas can lead to the bigger problem.. .

_But because the rabbit intestine just posterior to the stomach takes a very sharp turn, it appears that if the stomach has even a slight blockage or a gas buildup that pinches that turn just the wrong way, an irreversible bloat can occur._


sas


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## mistyjr (Apr 12, 2010)

But I dont even know what molting is... But when I touched her, Her fur was coming off so bad and was flying all over!


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## Pipp (Apr 12, 2010)

*mistyjr wrote: *


> But I dont even know what molting is... But when I touched her, Her fur was coming off so bad and was flying all over!


Molting just means shedding, except that animals that 'molt', like rabbits, have their whole coats come out and new coats come in over a compressed period of time. 

Animals that shed just always have hairs falling out as their natural process. 

The massage thing is tough because massages are highly recommended for gas and not for bloat. Bloating rabbits will bloat suddenly and have huge, tight stomachs. They don't press their stomachs to the ground and act uncomfortable, which are symptoms of gas attacks, they usually just stop moving altogether. 


sas


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## mistyjr (Apr 12, 2010)

okay.. I understand now


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## Maureen Las (Apr 12, 2010)

What do you mean the hay looked different. Where do you get your hay ? What type of hay is it.? 
is it from a local farm?


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## mistyjr (Apr 12, 2010)

The only place you can get Hay is at our farm store.. I cant describe how it looks..


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## tonyshuman (Apr 13, 2010)

Was it a different color? Smell? Texture? Length of stems?


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## dquesnel (Apr 13, 2010)

Having lost a bun to bloat this year, there were a few things I noted that may be of help to you. 

1) Pipp's post on Dana Krempel's theory seems very likely. _"But because the rabbit intestine just posterior to the stomach takes a very sharp turn, it appears that if the stomach has even a slight blockage or gas buildup that pinches that turn just the wrong way, an irreversible bloat can occur."_ This is key. A rabbit may have a 'hairpin turn' which would be along the lines of a genetic defect and often rabbits with these turns may survive gas/partial blockages only once, or many times. They often do seem to succumb to the condition however. 

2) Many times these 'gas attack' episodes are actually partial blockages, likely in the valve where the stomach meets the intestine or in a hairpin turn in the small intestine. These episodes seem to look a lot like a gas attack with only a couple small differences; the rabbit responds very well to oral fluids, the episode seems to last longer than a gas attack, and the rabbit often has abnormal poop immediately after starting to feel a bit better. 

3) After recurring 'episodes' the rabbit will likely suffer weakened tendons and lining around the stomach and intestines, which leads to more frequency of attacks. This also leads to necrotic tissue and possible stomach ulcers. Also because of this weakness it leads sometimes to twisting of the stomach, which usually cannot be detected in an x-ray but can be confirmed in case the vet tries to insert a tube down the esophagus to remove gas build up. Even if they are using a very small tube it will not be able to pass into the stomach. In the case that a turned stomach is observed, there isn't much that can be done. 

4) In case bloat is diagnosed the vet can try tubing the rabbit but even though it may provide some temporary relief to the rabbit, it will almost certainly re-bloat later. After only a few hours of bloat the rabbit can develop necrotic tissue and/or ulcers in the gut. 

Basically, it seems like bloat is largely hereditary and a rabbit will often show problem signs before it happens. I don't think there is much you can do about it, yes bacteria and some foods can contribute to it but it is really really unlikely to cause TRUE bloat. A rabbit most often will not survive true bloat. Before my rabbit died I knew something was very wrong, he had been sick many times before but within minutes of him just *starting* to feel ill all his signs were different. Before, with partial blockages and gas attacks he would immediately stop eating (as in would eat food then 5 minutes later refuse food) and his stomach would feel soft and normal. Massage helped him. However when he bloated, he slowly stopped eating (as in over a period of 1-2 hours he slowly refused food) and his stomach was hard like a balloon. I did not massage him at all in this case. 

I wouldn't worry about your other rabbits unless you think the hay is suspect. As long as it is green, not damp, smells nice and fresh it should be safe.


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## mistyjr (Apr 13, 2010)

Its the texture.. The first bale was different then this one! But its green and not wet..


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