# *urgent* Limp Bunny (RIP)



## Icarus (Jun 26, 2010)

I went to refill my rabbits water and found one of my 'keeper does' completely limp. Breathing, blinking, and able to move, but her head and body is utterly limp.

Has ANYONE had anything like this? She is roughly five weeks old.

*Edit* Bunnies are kept inside in the air conditioning.


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## Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears (Jun 26, 2010)

I recommend seeing a vet asap


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## Pipp (Jun 26, 2010)

I'll move this to the Rabbitry, probably not much can be done in the Infirmary. 

Can you provide history? What was she eating? Was she pooping normally? 

Could be anything from injury to a weaning enteritis. 

So sorry.  



sas ray:


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## Pipp (Jun 26, 2010)

PS: Keep her warm and calm. There probably isn't much else you can do, at least not until she perks up enough to respond to treatment.


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## jamesedwardwaller (Jun 26, 2010)

*Icarus wrote: *


> I went to refill my rabbits water and found one of my 'keeper does' completely limp. Breathing, blinking, and able to move, but her head and body is utterly limp.
> 
> Has ANYONE had anything like this? She is roughly five weeks old.
> 
> *Edit* Bunnies are kept inside in the air conditioning.


an exam by an exotic specialist--is in order,-the timer could already be running.-the only time i have ever held a limp bunny is when the life was gone,-i hope this is not the case here-//-5 weeks old is not weaned yet,and still dependent on the mothers teet..sincerely james wallerray:


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## Icarus (Jun 26, 2010)

Luvr of Wabbits and Polar Bears wrote:


> I recommend seeing a vet asap



I can't afford the vet for a rabbit.  


More info:
Was eating, drinking, and defecating normally. Completely normal behavior. I bought her along with litter mates from another gent-not bred by me.

While checking pupil dilation she went into a seizure. Back legs kicked, body tensed and twisted, whites of the eyes showed. Considering the symptoms, I believe that she has suffered a stroke.


Possibly of full, or even partial, recovery is highly unlikely.
Possibility of death is highly likely.

At best, I believe we're looking at partial recovery of movement, and permanent damage. If she survives, she will require a specialized care. I'm willing and able to provide her with such.


Heart Rate: 120 beats per minuet, roughly 2 beats per second
Respiratory Rate: 90-100 breaths per minuet
Current Position: Head is drawn back and front legs are drawn down and back, stiffly. There are periods of relaxation, and alternating stiffness.
Eyes keep wandering in slightly different directions.
Pupil dilation is very slow.

-She doesn't seem able/want to swallow. When presented with a few drops of water, she pee'd quite strongly on my leg. I'm hoping dearly this was voluntary.


Edit, 5:56 PM: Her seizures are becoming worse. She has a one in a million chance of survival.


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## Flash Gordon (Jun 26, 2010)

oh my god...dont let her suffer...what the heck is wrong with you?? take her to a vet and leave her with them.,.,they will put her down humanely and free. u have to leave her with them and tell them u have no money...how horrible for this bunny...,u need to do the right thing here,,,,


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## Pipp (Jun 26, 2010)

Don't try and give her anything. 

This is pretty typical end-stage behaviour, so sorry.  If it makes you feel any better, its just a natural body response, she's probably not feeling any pain. 

What is her breed and markings again? 


sas


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## Pipp (Jun 26, 2010)

*Flash Gordon wrote: *


> oh my god...dont let her suffer...what the heck is wrong with you?? take her to a vet and leave her with them.,.,they will put her down humanely and free. u have to leave her with them and tell them u have no money...how horrible for this bunny...,u need to do the right thing here,,,,


Its a matter of opinion, really, as to what is more cruel. Being carried and moved to a strange place that smells like predators, or go through the end stage seizures in a familiar place. 

Its a very tough call. 

I don't know about the pain and suffering with these kinds of seizures. I know the end stage 'scream' upsets humans to no end, but its just a reflex mechanical action that doesn't indicate pain or fear. 

I would expect her to be comatose and not too affected, although when I've been in that situation, I give them pain meds. Although it's unlikely at this stage they can swallow or their bodies can process them. 

Rabbits are not humans, they honestly don't care about being alone or 'comforted', although warmth will probably make her feel better. 

So sad... 


sas :sad:


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## Icarus (Jun 26, 2010)

Flash Gordon wrote:


> oh my god...dont let her suffer...what the heck is wrong with you?? take her to a vet and leave her with them.,.,they will put her down humanely and free. u have to leave her with them and tell them u have no money...how horrible for this bunny...,u need to do the right thing here,,,,



:expressionless oh, thank you so much for your help. I don't have a way to get there, and by the time I could walk there, she would already be passed. I would have put her down, humanely, myself, but I am out of the required ingredient to do so. So thanks for pointing out the obvious, but some of us don't have the luxury of city transportation or a vet every other block.
I highly doubt, here in a semi-rural town, they would have provided free euthanasia. 


She passed at 6:07 PM, June 26th, after experiencing the rabbit equivalent of a Grand Mal Seizure. RIP little girl.



Pipp wrote:


> What is her breed and markings again?



Mixed breed, mature weight 5-6lbs. She was a gold tipped black.


I've had something like this before. Seizures, limpness, and eventual death. Just never with seizures of this severity.
Lost most of the kits at 2 weeks old, the remaining two, a broken blue and a REW passed at about five weeks old. They where out of a Flemish cross doe, a big gray/chinchilla type. Roughly 6-7lbs.

I gave the doe to another gent who wanted a pet for his daughter. She herself was fine, it was just her offspring that where ticking time bombs. Sellers, of course, never mentioned any health issues or past-litter problems (I made it clear to the guy I gave her to).

I just got really ticked off. The rabbit community here isn't massive, and the seller I bought the rabbits from originally bought his breeders for producing meat. 

AUGH. I think I bought kits from my past doe. :X I should have just kept her. I really didn't want to risk an accidental breeding though. Bugger.


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## Happi Bun (Jun 26, 2010)

I had a young blue eyed white lionhead die from a grand mal seizure at the vet office. To be honest, the most you can do for a seizure is try and get it under control with anti-seizuring meds. I rushed Dewey, my rabbit that passed from an uncontrollable seizure, to the emergency vet. The Valume given didn't help much. He stabilized for a brief moment (though still seizing) only to go into cardiac rest and die. He seemed unaware of my presence during the whole experience, the same happens with people. 

Just want to comment on the rabbits not caring about being comforted before death. I don't think that is true. When possible I try to be there with them if any of my animals have to be euthanized at the vet. It's much more difficult to deal with, but I feel it brings closure to the journey and comforts the animal. It's not so much being comforted, but the familiarity that I feel makes the passing less scary. At the rabbit rescue some have seemingly waited to be picked up by the founder before they finally let go, passing in her arms. Sometimes the feeling of being safe can help the passing go quicker.

I'm sorry for your loss, seizures are very scary.


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## Maureen Las (Jun 26, 2010)

This sounds like floppy bunny syndrome; I am very sorry 

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/2008/10/Floppy-Bunny-Syndrome.htm


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## Icarus (Jun 27, 2010)

Happi Bun wrote:


> Just want to comment on the rabbits not caring about being comforted before death. I don't think that is true. When possible I try to be there with them if any of my animals have to be euthanized at the vet. It's much more difficult to deal with, but I feel it brings closure to the journey and comforts the animal. It's not so much being comforted, but the familiarity that I feel makes the passing less scary. At the rabbit rescue some have seemingly waited to be picked up by the founder before they finally let go, passing in her arms. Sometimes the feeling of being safe can help the passing go quicker.
> 
> I'm sorry for your loss, seizures are very scary.



From the moment I took her out of the hutch I had her either in my lap or in my arms, petting and comforting her. I do believe that it helped, even though she was probably unaware, especially in the final stage where the seizures became worse. Gently massaging her around the shoulder and neck where the tensing was particularly bad, making sure when she was seizing that she was cushioned. 


She'll be buried out in the woods tomorrow, along side others who have passed. It isn't very fancy-large stones and cut logs for headstones, but it is beautiful and holds many memories. A peaceful place to lay at rest


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## TinysMom (Jun 27, 2010)

*angieluv wrote: *


> This sounds like floppy bunny syndrome; I am very sorry
> 
> http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/2008/10/Floppy-Bunny-Syndrome.htm


I thought that too.

I am moving this to the infirmary...even though the rabbit has passed.


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## Pipp (Jun 27, 2010)

*Happi Bun wrote: *


> Just want to comment on the rabbits not caring about being comforted before death. I don't think that is true.


I worded it badly, sorry. I agree with the 'familiar' part. 

Rabbits, more than most species, are comfortable with what's familiar. Definitely in a strange place like a vet's office, they will be comforted by the presence of a human they know. Pipp and Mikel will both leap off the vet's table into my arms. 

Petting a rabbit is also comforting, it's 'grooming' to them, as long as they know you and they consider it grooming. 

But being held and petted by a stranger in a strange place is not comforting at all, to them it's just like being in the hands of another type of predator. It takes awhile for a rabbit to settle down and enjoy the pets. An end-stage rabbit doesn't have the luxury of time. 

So bottom line, it depends on the rabbit and the circumstances. 




> At the rabbit rescue some have seemingly waited to be picked up by the founder before they finally let go, passing in her arms. Sometimes the feeling of being safe can help the passing go quicker.



I'm not sure about the rescue founder scenario, but its a good question, the rescue here has the same thing happen with the founder, I'm really not sure why. 

It is possible, though, that instincts kick in with a semi-conscious rabbit, a stress reaction makes it end sooner. To my knowledge, recognition takes cognizance, instinct does not. 

I honestly don't think rabbits groom each other in an end stage situation, or even when one is ailing. I hear more stories about the rest of the warren reducing interaction with sick mates, although they with will groom post mortem. 

Its an interesting question, but I think its best left to another thread.

And I transfered this to the Rabbitry in the first place because given the high mortality rate with weaning-age kits, I was hoping for breeder feedback about these particular symptoms. 

So sorry for your loss. 


sas :rip:


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## tonyshuman (Jun 29, 2010)

Was there any unusual stool? I am curious as to whether she may have had an intestinal bacterial imbalance that led to poisoning of the blood by bacterial toxins--this too could cause seizures.


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