# Rabbit without hay will die??!!



## Kyo (Apr 8, 2005)

I'm new with rabbits so I've heard that hay makesup around 70% of a rabbit's meal. So does that mean if a rabbit goeswithout hay, he/she will die?

I'm feeding my Riku hay and pellets. But before I did, she went withouthay for weeks and in turn, became very thin. I brought her to theclinic and the vet told me a rabbit NEEDS hay!! So immediately I gaveher hay and pellets, in hopes of making her fat again.

Riku also starte to poo alot. So I'm thinking does this have anything to do with her lack of hay? Is she having diarrheah(sp)?


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## Carolyn (Apr 8, 2005)

WelcomeKyo,



No, it's not true. A good rabbit pellet has enough of fiber in it (usually 18%+) to provide the rabbit with what it needs.

I'm going to bump up a post by Buck Jones, "To Hay or Not to Hay". There's more detail in there about Hay.



-Carolyn


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## lizabeth332 (Apr 8, 2005)

Will rabbits die without hay??? itdepends on the rest of the rabbits diet. hay CAN save lives,but if rabbits are getting enough fiber in their diet without it thenit is not NECESSARY, tho nice. If a rabbit is getting diareahthen it might need hay for extra fiber, therefore can be saved fromdying. Hay does not make up 70% of a rabbits diet.What is the fiber content on your pellet? what brand is it?Are her stools goopy (sorry) or nice and hard and round?


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## Carolyn (Apr 8, 2005)

Kyo,

Also bumped up a post for you by rockstaramez "My bunnies got diarrhea." 

It's got suggestions in there as to what you can do if they do get diarrhea.

-Carolyn


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## pamnock (Apr 8, 2005)

Rabbits can receive adequate fiber through otherfoods in their diet. Pellets are designed to provide the RDArequirements for rabbits and fiber can also be provided through fruits,vegetables and greens.

Pam


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## Kyo (Apr 8, 2005)

Thanks pple! 

Riku is doing much better now. She's eating hay and pellets and I made sure she drinks plenty of water. 

Her stools are round and hard, but there's a bit of wetness which I reckon is normal? 

I'm not even sure if she has diarrhea or not, but as long as she don't continue to lose weight, I'm glad. 

Thanks for the bumping of threads. I went and take a look at them and find them most useful.


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## Carolyn (Apr 8, 2005)

Could it be cecotropes you're seeing, Kyo?

They're softer than the other poop and look like a bunch of tinygrapes. If she steps on it, it would get mushy. 

-Carolyn


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## lizabeth332 (Apr 8, 2005)

yep thats ok. the little moisture.


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## Kyo (Apr 8, 2005)

Carolyn, I'm not sure what cecotropes is, butjust now when I went to take a look at her, I saw that her stools werebeing "squashed" ( I think she might have stepped on it). What doesthis mean?

She's still drinking and eating but she's grown incredibly thin, asI've mentioned in the first post. Is she going to be all right? Ibrought her to the vet, thinking she had diarreah, and the vet wasn'texactly sure what was wrong with her. He just asked me what I gave herfor food and I told him I hadn't given her hay for weeks. Then hereprimanded me and told me a rabbit needs hay.

So he said Riku was thin due to the lack of hay (or fibre) in her diet.

Now that you mentioneed cecotropes, I don't really know what's going on with Riku now...I'm kinda worried. :shock:


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## Carolyn (Apr 8, 2005)

Kyo,

If you notice a few, and they look like a tiny group of grapes and seemto be a bit darker in color thanregular poopssometimes. They are filled with nutrients that are necessaryfor the health of your rabbit. They look quite different from a normalstool.An excessive amount of them could be caused by a dietthat's too rich for your rabbit or not enough of fiber.

Soft pudding-like stool could be sign of disruption in the rabbit'sintestinal system. I would continue with alot of Timothy Hay and/oroats. I'd stop all other treats, including all fruits, until yourlittle one's stool returns to normal.


-Carolyn


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## Carolyn (Apr 8, 2005)

P.S. Within the rabbitsintestines,a rabbit produces cecum. Cecum is anindigestible part of the animal's diet. Though it passes through therabbit's body, it is not waste, but must be eaten again in order to getthe nutritional value that the rabbit needs. Cecum helpsrabbits produce vitamins, minerals, fatty and amino acids and that'swhy they have to eat them again. They're called cecotropes.


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## pamnock (Apr 8, 2005)

The cecum is actually a physical part of therabbit's digestive track which produces cecotropes aka cecal pelletsaka night droppings.

Pam


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## Carolyn (Apr 8, 2005)

This isn't my picture, but it's a picture of them so that you can get an idea of what they look like.






-Carolyn


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## chiquita090 (Apr 8, 2005)

Rabbits do need hay though! It may not beneccesary for fiber purposes but rabbits teeth grow all their lives,the easiest way to keep this in check is by feeding them hay, whichthey'll graze on all day and will in turn wear down their teethnaturally.


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## pamnock (Apr 8, 2005)

Under normal circumstances, eating pellets willprovide adequate wear for the teeth. (But I do agree thatrabbits certainly enjoymunching on the extra hay.)

Pam


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## Carolyn (Apr 8, 2005)

Hi Chiquita, 

Also agree that hay helps to scrub their system clean of any excesshair, etc. Besides most seem to love it and extra fiber can'thurt. That said, some breeders don't give hay to theirrabbits because of the mess and because the rabbits have a sufficientamount of fiber in the pellets given. 

Also have heard some vets say that rabbits could live on hayalone. Check out Buck Jones' post "To Hay or Not toHay". It's interesting to read how people do thingsdifferently.

* * * * * * *

Great illustration, Pam, on the digestive system. :dude:

-Carolyn


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## Kyo (Apr 8, 2005)

Mmm I don't think her stools looked likececotropes....&gt;.&lt; I've caught her eating her stoolsbefore so I guess she'd know better!  Yep I'm just lettingher eat hay and drink water and I'll see if she improves. I'll keep yapple updated!


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## Carolyn (Apr 8, 2005)

That's the best you can do at this point,Kyo. Look into having some NutriCal on hand. It's adietary supplement (sold for dogs and cats), but it works wonders onrabbits as well. In case your little one goes off her feed,it stimulates their appetite, gives their immune system a boost, givesthem the nutrients they need when they're weak, and helps in case youneed to have the rabbit go to the bathroom.


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## pamnock (Apr 8, 2005)

*Carolyn wrote: *


> Also have heard some vets say that rabbits could live on hay alone.




Hay alone would not provide necessary fats -- especially important inthe winter because hay is deficient in digestible energy. Arabbit can live on hay alone for a period of time, but would eventuallystarve to death.

Pam


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## Carolyn (Apr 8, 2005)

Thanks for the clarification,Pam!



-Carolyn


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## JimD (Apr 8, 2005)

*Carolyn wrote:*


> That's the best you can do at this point, Kyo.Look into having some NutriCal on hand. It's a dietarysupplement (sold for dogs and cats), but it works wonders on rabbits aswell. In case your little one goes off her feed, itstimulates their appetite, gives their immune system a boost, givesthem the nutrients they need when they're weak, and helps in case youneed to have the rabbit go to the bathroom.


Oh Carolyn, Brindle would like to challenge the claim that Nutri-Cal is"palatable". Brindle had such a hissie fit. I'm still getting the"butt". 

After Rosie bit Brindle's nose I gave some Nutri-Cal to Brindle in aslice of banana. No good. I then applied it to her front paws. I neversaw such paw-shaking or gotten such dirty looks. It reminded me of thethat look that Tucker gets. She ate hay for about a hour trying to getthe taste out of her mouth. Brindle even bit me (which she has NEVERdone before) I was so upset. I thought she would hate me forever. Twoday later (and lots of craisins) I have been allowed to give nose-rubs,but no picking up unless I want to get nipped again.

On the other hand, S'more ate her Nutri-Cal laced banana all up without a problem. Go figure.

Don't get me wrong. Nutri-Cal is the bomb and I noticed that she hadperked up considerably after being tramatized by Rosie the bullybun.


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## JimD (Apr 8, 2005)

Could Kyo give some canned pumpkin to Riku to help add some fiber to her system??


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## Carolyn (Apr 8, 2005)

Hi Jim,

Absolutely Kyo could give her little one canned pumpkin. Thehay would probably do abetter job atdrying her upwith the diarrhea at this point, but if the problem is not enough fiberin the diet, I'd definitely add canned pumpkin to her diet.Many rabbits like the taste of it, but as you've experienced, not allrabbits tastebuds are the same.

I understand what you mean, completely, about the NutriCal.Tucker _hates_ it. If worse comes to worse, youcould always syringe feed it if you have to.Tuckershakes his paw and gives me a very hard time about it. I sympathize with youas I go through the sameordeal.

-Carolyn


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## AnnaS (Apr 8, 2005)

I think they have fun eating hay anyhow. Every time we give Chernish new hay, he loves throwing it around and eating it.

When we first got him, he did not have Timothy hay, he had a beddingstraw at the bottom of the cage. He kept pulling it through the holesand eating it.


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## sfritzp (Apr 8, 2005)

I hate to admit this, but when I got my firstrabbit about 20 years ago(he was 'donated' to the nursing home and Iwas delegated to care for him) I had not a clue about the critters.
But, I quickly fell in love with the bugger. He NEVER had hay. I didn'tknow they 'needed' it (this was before the internet, and all thewonderful info you can gather now). He got pellets, SUNFLOWER SEEDS -which he LOVED (now I would be scared to give a bun seeds of any kind!)and for a treat, I gave him little hunks of blueberry muffins. In spiteof this TERRIBLE diet, my VW Rabbit lived for 9.5 happy years as a PetTherapy animal - and a darn good one, too!
So - my point is - some buns can live through anything.
Even no hay and blueberry muffins!


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## LittleMija2 (Apr 9, 2005)

Did you get timothy hay or did you get alfalfa? Some bunnies have digestive problems with alfalfa hay. 

I babysat a bunny recently that had no hay and low quality/lowfiberpellets for the first 7 months of his life. He was boneyand had tiny little black stools.

I got hay into him and better quality pellets and he is fine now. His mother says he is much happier and more active as well.


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## lizabeth332 (Apr 9, 2005)

*sfritzp wrote: *


> Ihate to admit this, but when I got my first rabbit about 20 yearsago(he was 'donated' to the nursing home and I was delegated to carefor him) I had not a clue about the critters.
> But, I quickly fell in love with the bugger. He NEVER had hay. I didn'tknow they 'needed' it (this was before the internet, and all thewonderful info you can gather now). He got pellets, SUNFLOWER SEEDS -which he LOVED (now I would be scared to give a bun seeds of any kind!)and for a treat, I gave him little hunks of blueberry muffins. In spiteof this TERRIBLE diet, my VW Rabbit lived for 9.5 happy years as a PetTherapy animal - and a darn good one, too!
> So - my point is - some buns can live through anything.
> Even no hay and blueberry muffins!





I dont think it was all that terrible of a diet, at least he wasgetting pellets.and sunflower seeds areNOTbad to have, in general. they are used as atreat or supplement sometimes, and work wellto putweighton a rabbit. but remember, theyrehot... 

Kyo--*IDONT THINK YOUR RABBIT DOES HAVEDIAREAH!* will people please read over herdescriptions again! she is pooping normally, just alot, and she'spooping alot because she's eating a lot, and she's eating a lot becausekyo's feeding her alot, and kyos feeding her a lot because SHE'SUNDERWEIGHT!


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## LittleMija2 (Apr 9, 2005)

Yes,I guess the wording in the post wasa bit ambigious after reading it again. I assumed though that mostpeople know diarehha is runny and that if they ask "does bunny havediaharrea" then its because the bunny has runny stools. Anyways,hopefully your BIG letters wernt yelling, because thats not reallynecessary. I may be new but that doesnt give you the right to be rudewith me. No hard feelings, anyway, have a good day.

P.S the poster later clarified that the stools were still"mushy" and confirmed that they were not cecal pellets.


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## bluebird (Apr 10, 2005)

Did your vet test for coccidiosis.Rabbits with this may eat normally and still lose weight.bluebird


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