# Anyone have experience with vienna gene?



## Bebop (Dec 21, 2009)

Okay, so as beautiful as BEWs are, VMs are not showable, and here in California, it seems like they're looked down upon with breeders. Betty Chu told me she would touch the VM gene with a 10 foot pole! haha

So anyway, I was wondering, is there a way to breed the VM gene out? Or does it linger in every generation? I also heard that when a VM is bred to a non VM there is a chance that the rabbit may not have the gene at all. Is that true? How would I be able to tell?

I really want to start breeding angoras, but I didn't know that the VM gene wasn't very desirable, and I also didn't even know that the sire had the VM gene until I actually learned what it was if that makes sense. I don't want to cull her already and I was hoping to work with her because she's has excellent body and wool. 

Thanks for any help!


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## OakRidgeRabbits (Dec 21, 2009)

> So anyway, I was wondering, is there a way to breed the VM gene out? Or does it linger in every generation? I also heard that when a VM is bred to a non VM there is a chance that the rabbit may not have the gene at all. Is that true? How would I be able to tell?



No, there is really no way to breed it out. That's why the breeders who are not specifically working on BEW would not touch it with a ten foot pole.

See, the vienna gene is a recessive. So what happens is, no matter what you breed a BEW to, it is now a carrier. Whether it is actually mismarked (VM, or vienna marked), or whether it is perfectly showable phenotypically (VC, or vienna carrier), it carries the BEW. Do you see where this can get messy? Even though you can breed it out of the phenotype, making your rabbits showable, they still have a chance of being carriers, no matter how far down the line you go.

What happens is that someone, somewhere down the road, will breed some ancestor of yours to some ancestor of somebody else's rabbits...and they'll get a solid black with a white paw. Or some other mismark. Because they just happened to find two rabbits who carry that vienna gene, which is not as uncommon as you think it is.

So when you're working with a color other than BEW, it's best to use rabbits that (as far as you know) do not carry the vienna gene.

To answer your question...yes, when you breed a VM or VC to another color, there is a chance that they won't end up with the gene. The point is that the only way to know is to breed several times to a BEW and see what you get. And that's just an annoying, time-consuming, pointless task when you can just as simply avoid the gene altogether.

Hope that helped!


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## fuzz16 (Dec 21, 2009)

When breeding you will have a lot of non show quality when you start out and learning anyways, but they'll be pet quality. VMs are loved by people for pets and will be easy to rehome


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## Bebop (Dec 21, 2009)

Thanks OakRidge!
and you're also right fuzz16... breeding will always have it's culls. I'll just make sure to have variety and make sure people know about the VM gene.
While Betty had said she wouldn't touch it, Casey Jones, another big breeder here, had said it wasn't that big of a deal. I guess it's a matter of opinion.
Plus, I'll using the angoras mostly for spinning anyway.


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## fuzz16 (Dec 21, 2009)

Well until you get serious into showing and some good lines I wouldn't worry that much about the lines, the popularity may increase because I know about here Vms are loved


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## Bebop (Dec 31, 2009)

I ended up deciding to sell her.. It was a really tough choice.. ;_; but I am going to be getting to showing and I also have been given the opportunity to buy some rabbits with awesome backgrounds.


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## Bebop (Dec 31, 2009)

Also, she does have a DQ that the judges didn't catch when I showed her. White nails.. and from what I read, that could be from the VM gene, so she is most likely a carrier.


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## fuzz16 (Dec 31, 2009)

Well there is an english angora breeder on the east coast with vm lines and shes got bew babies right now that she says are popular for pets

and if you do breed her, like i said they still could be pets. honestly, id love a bew or vm marked rabbit. i think their beautiful and different


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