# EMERGENCY BROKEN FOOT?



## Yield (Jan 15, 2011)

Soleil got out of her cage.
Attacked Sabriel.
I think his front left foot is broken.
Im so scared
I cant stop crying
We're taking Soleil back to the Humane Society.


----------



## Bunny parents (Jan 15, 2011)

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that  Get well soon for your bunny.


----------



## Yield (Jan 15, 2011)

Bunny parents wrote:


> Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that  Get well soon for your bunny.



have you ever experienced a broken foot in rabbits? is it treatable?


----------



## Bunny parents (Jan 15, 2011)

No, I've never had the experience myself, but broken foot, as I read, is treatable. How's your bunny doing now ? Did you take him to the vet yet ? It's really broken,right ? It's visible ? When he walks, he doesn't put his weight on that foot ? 
ray: I'll keep your baby in mind. Wishing him a speedy recovery.


----------



## Yield (Jan 15, 2011)

Bunny parents wrote:


> No, I've never had the experience myself, but broken foot, as I read, is treatable. How's your bunny doing now ? Did you take him to the vet yet ? It's really broken,right ? It's visible ? When he walks, he doesn't put his weight on that foot ?
> ray: I'll keep your baby in mind. Wishing him a speedy recovery.



We're taking him to the animal emergency novi vet thing in michigan.. hes moving around but his foot is hanging and is all dangly..

thank you so much, i havent stopped crying since the whole ordeal.. what a lovely thing to wake up to- your new rabbit attacking your babies.


----------



## Nancy McClelland (Jan 15, 2011)

ray:


----------



## Yield (Jan 15, 2011)

Thank you Nancy. We're at the vet right now. I'm so scared because they havve to anethesitize him so they can xray him and thats risky... im scared he'll get GI stasis with the meds... if he's splinted then how will he notchew it? and then we have to change the bandages by a vet everyday?my head hurts so bad. im terrified.


----------



## Randi (Jan 15, 2011)

Poor Soleil (well I guess she'll be Zelda again), after all that work you did teaching her tricks. She'll be so confused.


----------



## Yield (Jan 15, 2011)

Randi wrote:


> Poor Soleil (well I guess she'll be Zelda again), after all that work you did teaching her tricks. She'll be so confused.



Poor Soleil? We can't afford her going psycho on my other POOR rabbits. It's easy for you to say that when it's not your rabbit in the emergency room at risk and it's gunna cost us 500+ dollars. What am I supposedto do? Keep her locked in a cage 24/7, afraid shes gunna attack my other buns, or even someone else if they smell like my other bunnies? She needs to be at a home with no other bunnies. I won't have her hurting Solara, Silas or Sabriel again.


----------



## Bunny parents (Jan 15, 2011)

We're praying for your baby bunny. I hope everything goes well at the emergency room. I know how frustrated and how scared you are, but be strong for your bunny, ok ? He needs you right now and with you being there for him makes things go easier for him. I'm sure the vet will help your baby fur as best as he/she can do. The one who attacked this boy is a newly bun at your house ?  I hope after all of these, things will be better among your bunny crews. 
Please, if you can, keep a post here about your boy 
:hug2:


----------



## Yield (Jan 15, 2011)

Thank you so much. That means a lot Vircia. He broke both of the large bones in his front left leg. He is in a splint with a cone... the bones are broken perfectly straight.. the splint may or may not help... if it doesnt the options are $2000 for surgery to fix it or amputate the leg... both are a risk of him dying during it or putting him to sleep...


----------



## Bunny parents (Jan 15, 2011)

Oh poor boy. So will he stay there for a night or you can take him home ? Did they give you guys any meds ? I really don't know what to say.. I know it's hard, but we need to be there for our bunny and with your love, I'm sure he will quickly recover. Be strong for both of you, ok ? Okay, I'm no expert here, but a clean straight broken bone is easy to grow back sticking to each other again ? 
You're welcome, Yield. At least I can be here, keeping you a company. 
:hug2:


----------



## Randi (Jan 15, 2011)

*Yield wrote: *


> Randi wrote:
> 
> 
> > Poor Soleil (well I guess she'll be Zelda again), after all that work you did teaching her tricks. She'll be so confused.
> ...


It is unfortunate for everyone involved. I feel terribly for both Sabriel and Soleil. Nobody is winning in this situation.


----------



## Yield (Jan 15, 2011)

Bunny parents wrote:


> Oh poor boy. So will he stay there for a night or you can take him home ? Did they give you guys any meds ? I really don't know what to say.. I know it's hard, but we need to be there for our bunny and with your love, I'm sure he will quickly recover. Be strong for both of you, ok ? Okay, I'm no expert here, but a clean straight broken bone is easy to grow back sticking to each other again ?
> You're welcome, Yield. At least I can be here, keeping you a company.
> :hug2:



[align=center]We brought him home. We got antibiotics in case he got bitten (even though he was attacked through a pen. Soleil is who got her fur ripped out and stuff) and we got pain meds too.
I'm trying to be strong- it's so hard, I love him so much. I can't even fathom what I'd do if he didn't survive all of this. I keep telling myself that he's a touch lil bun and has to be okay. I hope I'm right.. By that, I meant like... it's not a slanted break. the bone is broken straight in half and the doctor fears that the bones will just go back and forth. Also, call me Bailee please =]

Anyways- he's got this huge blue cast on and a cone and he just looks so sad. I feel so bad, I feel like it's all my fault. Also- we just took Soleil to the Humane Society, and they're going to put her up for adoption. No matter how mad I am at her for attacking my bonded pair (they can't be together until Sabriel is healed) I am very sad to see her go, and I hope she gets a great home...

Also Vircia, do you have an email or facebook or something? You're very nice, and I would love to keep in contact with you outside of RO =]

Also- I'm Polish! I just noticed it said you live in Poland.


----------



## Maureen Las (Jan 15, 2011)

it sounds like you are dealing with everything correctly, Bailee, so hopefully the vet will help you decide what is the best option for his leg. 
You did the right thing by going to the vet right away....

Irealize how diffiuclt it is to experience a rabbit fight. I had something similar happen to two of mine years ago but without the damage. 
keep us updated..

you certainly have not had a good weekend 

:hug:\

Maureen


----------



## Yield (Jan 15, 2011)

angieluv wrote:


> it sounds like you are dealing with everything correctly, Bailee, so hopefully the vet will help you decide what is the best option for his leg.
> You did the right thing by going to the vet right away....
> 
> IÂ realize how diffiuclt it is to experience a rabbit fight. I had something similar happen to two of mine years ago but without the damage.
> ...



[align=center]Thank you angieluv =]
Yes, we decided to see if the splint works.. 
I've been with him/around him as much as possible. 
Hopefully his momma's care and hand feeding and pets help =]
I am also playing healing music.
Yeah, it's horrible. And it was only through the cage. I think thats how he broke it. Getting it caught in the pen while fighting her.

I'll be sure to keep everyone updated, every step of the way. Thank you for replying and such. I'm very grateful.

And you're right, this weekend has turned out horrid.


----------



## Sweetie (Jan 15, 2011)

I feel sorry for all the bunnies. You did the right thing by taking Soleil back to the humane society. Always trust your instincts when it comes to your rabbits, you know them best. Good job for acting so quickly getting Sabriel to the vet. I hope the recovery goes smoothly.


----------



## Yield (Jan 15, 2011)

Sweetie wrote:


> I feel sorry for all the bunnies. You did the right thing by taking Soleil back to the humane society. Always trust your instincts when it comes to your rabbits, you know them best. Good job for acting so quickly getting Sabriel to the vet. I hope the recovery goes smoothly.



[align=center]Yeah, I feel sorry now that I've taken Soleil back.. but she deserves better than me now. I wouldn't be able to treat her the same. I wouldn't be mean to her or anything. But she definitely broke the bond her and I had when she did this. I can't believe how brutally she acted. She really was out for blood. She'd been trying to get to them for days and I've only now just realized. She was always chewing on her pen, eying them... She'll get a good home, and be the only bun, and be super spoiled <3

We acted as quickly as possible. We had to find a vet and everything.

Me too, thank you.


----------



## Sweetie (Jan 16, 2011)

Bunnies are funny that way. We never know what will happen between them.

You are welcome!


----------



## tristaw. (Jan 16, 2011)

What an awful thing! major hugs..what a devastating thing to experience. I feel terrible for you and sabriel.. prayers for you both. I answered your reiki thing before this one. I'm glad your baby has been seen and treated. Now, both of you need to heal. When my bunny was attacked by the cat, it was one of the worst things I ever went through. I can relate.

:hug2:


----------



## tristaw. (Jan 16, 2011)

About taking Soleil back, I may catch grief for this but in order to be the best you can be with your bunnies you need to be stress free. If that means your nerves would be shot because you'd be afraid of another attack or couldn't get over a grudge, you did the right thing.

Some people here are VERY rabbit experienced ( I am not) and could deal with it very well but personally I am not experienced enough to deal with a situation like you went through.

Focus on your little guy healing. :hugsquish:


----------



## Yield (Jan 16, 2011)

[align=center]Thank you so much, Tristana. That means a lot to hear that other people agree that me taking Soleil back was the right thing. 

You are correct, it would have been really hard for me to keep her, not only because I would fear another attack, I wouldn't be able to treat her like I treat my other bunnies and it would be unfair to her. I wouldn't be mean, but I wouldn't be all lovey how I had been before. I know this sounds wrong, but she broke our bond when she seeked out and attacked my first two bunnies. I mean, I had to PIN her down to get her to semi-calm down, and when I put her in her cage, she was grunting and attacking the cage. It was horrifying.

Thank you again =]


----------



## Bunny parents (Jan 16, 2011)

*Yield wrote: *


> Bunny parents wrote:
> 
> 
> > Oh poor boy. So will he stay there for a night or you can take him home ? Did they give you guys any meds ? I really don't know what to say.. I know it's hard, but we need to be there for our bunny and with your love, I'm sure he will quickly recover. Be strong for both of you, ok ? Okay, I'm no expert here, but a clean straight broken bone is easy to grow back sticking to each other again ?
> ...


[align=center]


> We brought him home. We got antibiotics in case he got bitten (even though he was attacked through a pen. Soleil is who got her fur ripped out and stuff) and we got pain meds too.
> I'm trying to be strong- it's so hard, I love him so much. I can't even fathom what I'd do if he didn't survive all of this. I keep telling myself that he's a touch lil bun and has to be okay. I hope I'm right.. By that, I meant like... it's not a slanted break. the bone is broken straight in half and the doctor fears that the bones will just go back and forth. Also, call me Bailee please =]
> 
> Anyways- he's got this huge blue cast on and a cone and he just looks so sad. I feel so bad, I feel like it's all my fault. Also- we just took Soleil to the Humane Society, and they're going to put her up for adoption. No matter how mad I am at her for attacking my bonded pair (they can't be together until Sabriel is healed) I am very sad to see her go, and I hope she gets a great home...
> ...


[/align][align=left]


> Also- I'm Polish! I just noticed it said you live in Poland.


 How are your buns doing today ? When is the next appointment with the vet ? I hope you guys are doing ok now  
Nothing to thank me for  You're welcome... actually I didn't do anything though. I just don't like to see anyone going through such a terrible situation alone. Oh by the way, I PM you.  It's very nice to meet you, Danielle.  
[/align]


----------



## Yield (Jan 16, 2011)

Bunny parents wrote:


> *Yield wrote: *
> 
> 
> > Bunny parents wrote:
> ...



[align=center]Well, I'm grateful for you just being there =] I replied to the PM =D
It's very nice to meet you too =]

Also- the next Vet appointment is Monday so Sabriel can get his bandages changed. =]


----------



## Sweetie (Jan 16, 2011)

Yes you did the right thing taking Soleil back. An aggressive bunny who is aggressive towards other bunnies is definitely not a good thing. I don't think that I would be able to handle that.


----------



## SarahLovesMusic1996 (Jan 16, 2011)

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Soleil is evil!
("I know this sounds wrong, but she broke our bond when she seeked out and attacked my first two bunnies. I mean, I had to PIN her down to get her to semi-calm down, and when I put her in her cage, she was grunting and attacking the cage. It was horrifying.")
That would just scare the crap outta me!


----------



## Yield (Jan 16, 2011)

Sweetie wrote:


> Yes you did the right thing taking Soleil back. An aggressive bunny who is aggressive towards other bunnies is definitely not a good thing. I don't think that I would be able to handle that.



[align=center]Thank you, it makes me feel better that people agree. 

I feel so sad though, I'm crying right now. I didn't think I'd feel sad after what she did, but she was such a great people-bunny. She was so sweet when she didn't have other buns in view. I'll really miss her.


----------



## Yield (Jan 16, 2011)

SarahLovesMusic1996 wrote:


> OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Soleil is evil!
> ("I know this sounds wrong, but she broke our bond when she seeked out and attacked my first two bunnies. I mean, I had to PIN her down to get her to semi-calm down, and when I put her in her cage, she was grunting and attacking the cage. It was horrifying.")
> That would just scare the crap outta me!



[align=center]Yes, evil towards other bunnies. She was the sweetest, loveliest thing with me. I'm crying. I truly miss her sweet personality. But I do not miss how she attacked my other bunnies.

Yeah, it was horrifying. I can hardly remember what happened when I woke up. It was like a nightmare. I woke up to the sound of the pen rattling, and I think I put my glasses on at that point (after I put Soleil in her cage I realized I had them on.) But before I had them on, it was a blurry image of Soleil's white body pinned to the white pen, and it was sorta a mesh of events from then. It was all an instant reaction. I don't remember even standing from the bed. 

I remember just snatching Soleil up by all the skin on her back and neck (instant reaction) and then throwing her on the bed. I pinned her down- I think she was grunting- but she was definitely struggling. She wanted BLOOD. It was horrifying seeing that look in her eyes. 

And then I picked her up the same was as before- I was shaking- I was so angry and scared. And then I tossed her in her cage and shut it. That's when she started grunting and biting and scratching the cage. 

And when I went to check on the buns, I checked Solara first since she was out, and then that's when I found Sabriel, hunched in the corner, his leg bent the wrong way. I ran downstairs, bawling, my hand over my mouth.


----------



## MiniLopHop (Jan 16, 2011)

*Yield wrote: *


> Sweetie wrote:
> 
> 
> > Yes you did the right thing taking Soleil back. An aggressive bunny who is aggressive towards other bunnies is definitely not a good thing. I don't think that I would be able to handle that.
> ...



It sounds like Soleil just needs to be an only bun. Unfortunately these things happen sometimes. Warm thoughts and prayers for your whole family. ray:[/align]


----------



## SarahLovesMusic1996 (Jan 16, 2011)

OMG!
That sounds horrifying! I couldn't imagine being in that type of situation! I would of been scared and irritated that she tried to do. But then again I would of been scared 
of her actions and wouldn't have believed she had did it. I pray that Sabriel gets better and that Soleil finds a loving home where she can get all the love she needs. 


> Yes, evil towards other bunnies. She was the sweetest, loveliest thing with me. I'm crying. I truly miss her sweet personality. But I do not miss how she attacked my other bunnies.
> 
> Yeah, it was horrifying. I can hardly remember what happened when I woke up. It was like a nightmare. I woke up to the sound of the pen rattling, and I think I put my glasses on at that point (after I put Soleil in her cage I realized I had them on.) But before I had them on, it was a blurry image of Soleil's white body pinned to the white pen, and it was sorta a mesh of events from then. It was all an instant reaction. I don't remember even standing from the bed.
> 
> ...


ray: Praying,
Sarah


----------



## Yield (Jan 16, 2011)

[align=center]Thank you, both of you!

In case you haven't seen my other post- here are the X-Rays.















And here's poor Sabriel:






He doesn't sit so awkward anymore... =p


----------



## elrohwen (Jan 17, 2011)

I'm very sorry to hear about your little bun! I hope he heals quickly and doesn't need surgery. It looks like a clean break which should be easier to heal than if it has splintered.


----------



## pumpkinandwhiskersmom (Jan 17, 2011)

Bless his heart! Healing prayers heading his way!


----------



## Luluznewz (Jan 17, 2011)

I just wanted to say I am so so sorry for what happened to Sabriel. I have always admired your bunny family. Condolences to you and Solara too, it must be hard on both you guys. 

While I don't think animals can really be evil or bad, I agree that taking the other bunny back was the right thing for you. It really does sound like she needs to be in a single bunny home. Or if not a single bunny home, a home that is more prepared to deal with conflicting personalities. I've always been a bit amazed at how well all your rabbits got along. There is no reason to ruin the tranquility of your family.

I think her experience with Bailee proves that she was a very loving bun, but just not right for that particular home. I'm sure there are tons of other rabbits who would have fought, and its pretty likely Sabirel got hung up in the bars. 

So don't feel bad Bailee. You really are looking out for all your buns, even the one you had to take back. The other rabbits were clearly stressing her out, so it was probably better that she go. 

Its possible Soleil could have gotten hurt in this situation too. Everyone will be safer if she finds a new home that is willing to deal with a rabbit aggressive rabbit. I think it would be easier for you to get over this if you forgive Soleil and understand that shes just an animal who was following some kind of skewed basic instincts. She wasn't trying to be bad. And really, by finding her a new home you are protecting her too.

I'm going to keep all you guys in my thoughts. Hopefully Sabriel will heal and Soleil will find a great new home!


----------



## Yield (Jan 17, 2011)

[align=center]@Laura: Thank you so much! Yes I am glad it didn't splinter.. but I wish it had broken diagonally instead... better yet, not at all!

@pumpkinandwhiskersmom: Thank you!

@Jessica: Thank you for the kind words. I felt that Soleil was evil when she had first done it. But now that it's all said and done, I don't believe so. I miss her an awful lot, and I really regret not properly saying goodbye before I handed her back to the Humane Society... (I cry every time I think about it) I was just so mad at her. Once they put her up for adoption, I'll be going in to say goodbye properly. I really hope she gets a good home.

We got really really lucky with all three of my rabbits. They're all such great buns. 

Soleil had some of her fur ripped from by her nose. Nothing major though. I had already forgiven her.

Thank you!


----------



## SarahLovesMusic1996 (Jan 19, 2011)

Any Updates?


----------



## Yield (Jan 20, 2011)

SarahLovesMusic1996 wrote:


> Any Updates?



[align=center]Sabriel is doing good. He is his usual piggy self, and a spaz as usual. When I take the cone off, he goes all spazzy-licky on his un-casted foot and scratches his eye a lot and shakes his head. I would too- that cone must be irritating. The only problem is him drinking! It's frustrating.

I went to the Humane Society today and said bye to Soleil. She didn't seem to care, but I think that's best. It was easier for me. =/


----------



## Sweetie (Jan 20, 2011)

Glad Sabriel is doing okay. May he continue to do well. What is going on with his drinking? Is he drinking more than usual or not enough?


----------



## SarahLovesMusic1996 (Jan 20, 2011)

It's sad she didn't care


----------



## Yield (Jan 21, 2011)

[align=center]@Sarah: Yeah, I was hoping she would, but as I said, I figure it's better. If she would have been lovey again, I would have been sad because I won't get that anymore (from her at least). But her seeming distant made me less sad. Does that make sense? Makes sense in my head... >_<

@Sweetie: Doesn't seem he's drinking enough... for my standards. I dunno how much he drinks usually though- since he is bonded to Solara.

You know what's really weird?
They put Soleil up for adoption (as Zelda- I'm pissed).
But look- they have a picture I took as the third picture.
http://www.petango.com/Webservices/...8&css=http://www.hshv.org/hshv_stylesheet.css

And they had the first one as a picture I took too. But I have no idea how they even got the picture. Not that I care that they use it, I'm just baffled to how they got it.


----------



## Bunny parents (Jan 21, 2011)

Bailee. I think if he still eats normal, he gets enough amount of water he needs. You said you don't know how much he drinks 'cause he's bonded with Solara. It's mean they are in the same cage ?  Sorry for asking this. This is new to me.I have only one bunny and I wonder if one day we have another one.When they will be bonded to each other, can we keep them in the same cage ???  That'd be super cute. Seeing them together all the time. Hehehe. 
Yes, that's weird how they got your pics. And why Zelda ? Is that her previous name or what ? :confused2:
Wow, girl. I must admit you're a brave and tough girl. You went there and say good bye to Soleil. I always have problem with saying goodbye.  How are you feeling ? Better ?


----------



## Yield (Jan 21, 2011)

Bunny parents wrote:


> Bailee. I think if he still eats normal, he gets enough amount of water he needs. You said you don't know how much he drinks 'cause he's bonded with Solara. It's mean they are in the same cage ?  Sorry for asking this. This is new to me.I have only one bunny and I wonder if one day we have another one.When they will be bonded to each other, can we keep them in the same cage ???  That'd be super cute. Seeing them together all the time. Hehehe.
> Yes, that's weird how they got your pics. And why Zelda ? Is that her previous name or what ? :confused2:
> Wow, girl. I must admit you're a brave and tough girl. You went there and say good bye to Soleil. I always have problem with saying goodbye.  How are you feeling ? Better ?



[align=center]Yeah, I'm just worried that he should probably get more cause it'd help his leg, right?

Yes, you can keep them in the same cage! =]

With Solara and Sabriel, these are the steps we took:

1. Live close together for 2-3 weeks (separate cages and pens), switching food bowls and being semi-close.

2. Start bonding - we used the bathtub (neutral territory and too slippery to fight), with the vacuum running (for first few bonding sessions)

3. Moved bonding to bathroom floor.

4. One last bonding session in room attached to bathroom.

5. Went in Solara's pen with Sabriel since Solara seemed more submissive, Solara closed in cage and Sabriel in pen.

6. Connected pens so both territories would be open.

7. Let them stay together all day, but slept in separate cages.

8. Let them sleep together- chased each other all night so I had to keep them separated at night a bit longer, but they grew accustomed to it and now they love each other so much =]

Yeah, I'm really confused how they got the pics!

And yes, Zelda was her previous name. =/

And yeah, I bawled though XD;; I am feeling a bit better, but I'm still wishing I could have just waited and never gotten Soleil. It would have been better for everyone. And there's this cute little bunny that reminds me of Sabriel at the place I volunteer and I'd love to get her D= She seems very passive and isn't aggressive at all towards any of the other bunnies around her in the sanctuary.

But it's too soon, I'm too nervous, and we can't spend any more money right now. And Sabriel's broken leg and all..


----------



## Yield (Feb 7, 2011)

[align=center]The vet visit went very well today! Dr. Parks took Sabriel in the back this time, because there were no rooms open and she said the following things when she got back:

-He's the same weight.
-He was more feisty than usual.
-His leg has healed substantially more since last week.
-We'll do an X-Ray next week.
-His leg is crooked.
-Hopefully he'll be done with his cast and such in the next two weeks or so.

Such great news! I am SOOO happy!


----------



## SarahLovesMusic1996 (Feb 9, 2011)




----------



## Yield (Feb 15, 2011)

[align=center]Sabriel's in a soft cast without the splint and he's more restricted than before so by next week he should be without a cast and we have to watch him a whole LOT. I'm so nervous but excited. I hope he does okay. 

His leg looks so sad with the cast off. It's skinny, and there's some sores on it or whatever from the tape ripping his fur off and stuff. But the vet said it'll clear up quickly after he's out of his cast.

The bend where his leg is healing is about 15 degrees off.. (bent inwards). The break feels like another elbow. But I think it'll not look so drastic after it's done healing completely. The bone that is growing back- the vet lemme feel it.. it feels so crazy!

When we got him from the vet he spazzed out and went right in his litterbox and peed with a relieved squeaking noise XD;; He'd been holding it (we went in Border's briefly after the vet)... what a good boy XD Didn't pee in the carrier 8D

He's growing much more feisty.. I know he can feel that the casting stuff and such will be over SOON!


----------



## Violet23 (Feb 15, 2011)

Good to know he's doing so well! Im sure once he has no cast on he's gunna bunny 500 for as long as he can, lol. It's honestly inspiring how you've handled this entire siuation, I think I would be scared out of my mind if something like this happened to my buns. Make sure you give him some hugs from everyone here on RO


----------



## Byfuzzerabbit (Feb 15, 2011)

Glad to head he is getting better. I wish I could have him a nose rub.


----------



## Yield (Feb 15, 2011)

[align=center]@Sammi: Well for the first week without his cast he has to be confined more than usual, just in case. =P But after that, he's gunna be a spaz XD I WAS terrified. It was so scary- we thought we were gunna have to amputate his leg =[ I will give him hugs from all of you =] Thank you~

@Olivia: Thank you =] Want me to give him nose-rubs for you? =]


----------



## Yield (Feb 25, 2011)

[align=center]This is his leg.. healed (the one on the right). But with a sore on it that's mostly healed. And after he licked it a ton.





The one on the left looks twisted because how he is sitting and the broken one looks a bit more odd than it should because he's holding it up.


----------

