# I feel guilty...



## Happy Bunno (Jan 2, 2019)

Hey!

Yet again I have run into a problem... Over the winter break I have gotten extremely close with my rabbit. You might say "Well that's great!" but I'm very sad, angry (at myself) and worried. When school starts I can't spend enough time with him but the worst part of the story is the fact that my bunny has a small cage and I can't let him out 10 hours a day. I live in an extremely small apartment (4 rooms plus the bathroom and toilet). My room has 3 purposes: my bedroom, my moms working area and where my bunnies cage is. So you can imagine how small and packed with action it is. Both my parents have work daily and I have school from 8 am to around 2 pm. I can still give my rabbit attention but he doesn't have as much time to run around and exercise. The question is : Are there any ways for me to make the current cage a bit bigger? I just feel so guilty...


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## Imbrium (Jan 2, 2019)

Not sure what's available in your country, but exercise pens (like for dogs) are versatile and could be attached to an existing cage to make a 'run' area.


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## Happy Bunno (Jan 2, 2019)

Imbrium said:


> Not sure what's available in your country, but exercise pens (like for dogs) are versatile and could be attached to an existing cage to make a 'run' area.


Well of course those are an option, but I think I don't have enough room...


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## Imbrium (Jan 2, 2019)

They can typically be taken apart so that you don't have to use the whole thing - for example, you could use 4 panels instead of 8 to make a smaller area.

Not sure what you're using for a cage now, but a large dog kennel/crate is bigger than any storebought rabbit cage I've seen.


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## Happy Bunno (Jan 3, 2019)

I'm using this
That's 95 cm long and 57 cm wide.


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## somebunnylovesme (Jan 3, 2019)

You bunny is very tiny. Bunnies grow fast and grow fast out of their cages.

You could use cube storage shelves like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0735CKFJK/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 and build around or attached them to the side of the cage to give your bunny a bigger play space. But, rabbits like to explore and can jump very high so you want a tall fence. 

While your at school your bunny will probably be sleeping. Most rabbits get up in the morning and fall asleep after a few hours and wake up towards the evening. Even if you build a pen for your rabbit to play in, you'll still need to interact and play with your bunny so your rabbit can enjoy your company.


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## Happy Bunno (Jan 3, 2019)

somebunnylovesme said:


> You bunny is very tiny. Bunnies grow fast and grow fast out of their cages.
> 
> You could use cube storage shelves like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0735CKFJK/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 and build around or attached them to the side of the cage to give your bunny a bigger play space. But, rabbits like to explore and can jump very high so you want a tall fence.
> 
> While your at school your bunny will probably be sleeping. Most rabbits get up in the morning and fall asleep after a few hours and wake up towards the evening. Even if you build a pen for your rabbit to play in, you'll still need to interact and play with your bunny so your rabbit can enjoy your company.


Haha! That's not the bunny, that's my bunnies toy.... my bunnies picture is above.


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## A & B (Jan 3, 2019)

Happy Bunno said:


> View attachment 39045
> 
> Haha! That's not the bunny, that's my bunnies toy.... my bunnies picture is above.


That's funny! I thought that toy was your bunny also! Is there another room your bunny can run around in or that you could set up an exercise pen? Living room, kitchen, bathroom, etc?


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## Happy Bunno (Jan 3, 2019)

He can run around in the living room bur I can't put a pen or anything there.


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## Happy Bunno (Jan 3, 2019)

I've actually lost all hope because I asked my mother if I could widen the cage somehow and she said no (very firmly...). My only hope is that my bunny doesn't get sick and that my father (I talked with him and he said that when he gets home he'll open the cage immediately) will open the cage when he gets home. I'm actually crying.


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## somebunnylovesme (Jan 3, 2019)

Your father is going to let the rabbit out to run around? I'm not sure how big your bunny is. If you moved out that ramp/platform he would have more room to move around. Not everyone has the room to put up a luxury cage.

Its ok if you rabbit is in his cage while your at school/work and you let him out for a few hours to exercise and be bunny. There are dog owners that have their dogs stay in a kennel while they are at work so that they don't chew up things or start barking.

My bunny is free roaming during the day because there is always someone home. He has his favorite spot to hang out and most of the time he sleeps there. He is active for a few hours in the morning doing his bunny things like eating, playing etc.. and then sleeps until 6 pm or 8 pm. Then he gets up and starts hopping around. When I go to bed he goes in his cage and sleeps there. Then the next day its the same process all over again.


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## Happy Bunno (Jan 3, 2019)

Is 8 hours enough time for a rabbit to hop around? Basically I could let him out in the morning for maybe a hour and then I have to go to school. I would arrive around 2 or 3 pm and my bunny could possibly be out already (because I told my father to let him). He would hop around until 10 pm and then I'll have to go to bed.


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## Happy Bunno (Jan 3, 2019)

somebunnylovesme said:


> Your father is going to let the rabbit out to run around? I'm not sure how big your bunny is. If you moved out that ramp/platform he would have more room to move around. Not everyone has the room to put up a luxury cage.
> 
> Its ok if you rabbit is in his cage while your at school/work and you let him out for a few hours to exercise and be bunny. There are dog owners that have their dogs stay in a kennel while they are at work so that they don't chew up things or start barking.
> 
> My bunny is free roaming during the day because there is always someone home. He has his favorite spot to hang out and most of the time he sleeps there. He is active for a few hours in the morning doing his bunny things like eating, playing etc.. and then sleeps until 6 pm or 8 pm. Then he gets up and starts hopping around. When I go to bed he goes in his cage and sleeps there. Then the next day its the same process all over again.


My bunny doesn't really use the platform.. should I take it away? Would it make his conditions better?


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## Happy Bunno (Jan 3, 2019)

Also a lot of the guilt comes from the fact that when I have to go to bed, I have to put him in his cage and then while I'm laying in bed he looks at me with a sad face... I feel so bad and then I can't sleep. He just sits on the same spot and looks at me.


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## Hermelin (Jan 3, 2019)

Can you maybe use the bathroom as a bigger cage during the time no one is home. 

I often use the bathroom in my house as a temporary cage before my family accepted to have him run around free roaming and the house was bunny proofed. 

I’m often away from 7 to 18, with school so I can’t keep my rabbits locked up in the cage. 

My indoor rabbit always get into the cage during the night when I’m going to sleep, he always stares after he have done binkys and play before slowly falling asleep on his house. He always stare at me and never turned away when he sleeps, have happened he fall off the house when he’s sleeping. 

He will be quiet until I wake up and let him out again.


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## somebunnylovesme (Jan 3, 2019)

The ramp and platform do take up a lot space. 

I know there are videos like Lennon The Bunny that talk about how rabbits should free roam and shouldn't be in cages at all. Unfortunately, that doesn't work for all rabbits due to their owners busy lives. Rabbit can get into trouble when your not home not matter how bunny proofed things are. 

If you can let out your bunny for 4 hrs a day that will work. Rabbits in cages will not get know you and you'll never see their personality come out. If you can set up an area where you bunny and you can spend time that is fabulous.

With cages sometimes owners don't have an area large enough to put a bigger cage in. Hopefully overtime your mom will see that your bunny is intelligent and accept your bunny as a house hold pet and allow you to make changes.


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## Happy Bunno (Jan 3, 2019)

somebunnylovesme said:


> The ramp and platform do take up a lot space.
> 
> I know there are videos like Lennon The Bunny that talk about how rabbits should free roam and shouldn't be in cages at all. Unfortunately, that doesn't work for all rabbits due to their owners busy lives. Rabbit can get into trouble when your not home not matter how bunny proofed things are.
> 
> ...


I can let out my bunny for 7 to 8 hours every day. I think I should remove the platform. I have a little play area set up. It's small but cozy and it has a soft blanket on the floor...


He has a water bowl too but it's in the kitchen currently.


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## melonpan (Jan 3, 2019)

@Happy Bunno , have you looked into building a cage upwards?
There are a bunch of DIY's for "rabbit condos" using NIC grids and even upcycled furniture to create cages in small spaces.

Maybe you can use the play area you've set up for him to squeeze in a bunny condo, then let him out in an X-pen when you are home.

Good luck!


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## Happy Bunno (Jan 3, 2019)

melonpan said:


> @Happy Bunno , have you looked into building a cage upwards?
> There are a bunch of DIY's for "rabbit condos" using NIC grids and even upcycled furniture to create cages in small spaces.
> 
> Maybe you can use the play area you've set up for him to squeeze in a bunny condo, then let him out in an X-pen when you are home.
> ...


I have thought about it...BUT MY MOM IS AGAINST EVERYTHING! She has some valid points but then she makes stupid statements like "I love it when he (my bun) is in the cage, he makes less mess", HE ISN'T A MESSY BUNNY AND WITH EVERY ANIMAL COMES RESPONSIBILITIES! I get that we don't have much room, but looking at the space that we have, I could definitely figure something out. I have so many ideas, but she says no to everything. Sometimes I cry because I feel guilty for putting my bun through this. When I was younger my mother bought the muesli type rabbit food and even though I knew it wasn't good for my bun I let it happen because my mother said that it's not bad and that I just wanted to starve my rabbit (my rabbit is slightly over weight, I'm working on it...) I know I keep blaming my mom, but I find myself blaming myself even more. This doesn't sound that bad, I know, but you don't know half of the story


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## Happy Bunno (Jan 3, 2019)

I feel like I could do so much better, but my mom won't allow me. I still love my mom though, she can be really nice too...


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## somebunnylovesme (Jan 4, 2019)

Awesome, your bunny has more space to do more bunny things. I'm not sure if your bunny is a chewer but a suggestion would be to get some NIC grids try to block off those things he can chew on. No matter how many toys a rabbit has they get curious and like to taste test other things. Its looking good.


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## Charlotteandbetty (Jan 4, 2019)

Don’t worry yourself- bunnies enjoy cage time and are most sleepy during the day. I agree that the best solution would be to either add a X pen, no matter how small, to add any extra space you can. Suggest to your mum that you’ll put it away when people are home? 

8 hours of free roaming is far more than many buns get so don’t be hard on yourself. 

Try making some fun toys to keep him busy. 

Another alternative if you have the money would be to upgrade to a 2 or 3 tiered cage. It won’t take up more space but will double/triple bun’s space. 

Good luck and let go of the guilt!! My bun also kicks off when she’s put in her cage at night but it’s best for her to stay safe and out of trouble.

Xxx


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## melonpan (Jan 4, 2019)

@Happy Bunno - I'm sure your mom is coming from a good place, but doesn't realize how much exercise your bunny actually needs.

You shouldn't have to starve him to make him lose weight - he still needs to eat something. I'm not sure what kind of food your rabbit is eating now, but if you are feeding him pellets, I'd say limit the amount of pellets you give him. Just focus on slowly feeding him more hay and veggies and less of the rabbit pellets. If you do give him pellets still, maybe you can feed him in a slow-feed dish (if you can).


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## Happy Bunno (Jan 4, 2019)

Charlotteandbetty said:


> Don’t worry yourself- bunnies enjoy cage time and are most sleepy during the day. I agree that the best solution would be to either add a X pen, no matter how small, to add any extra space you can. Suggest to your mum that you’ll put it away when people are home?
> 
> 8 hours of free roaming is far more than many buns get so don’t be hard on yourself.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much! My grandmother has a dog pen and I thought that maybe I should ask her? My grandmother has actually already helped me a lot... I just today thought about getting a play pen and removing it when I get home. My mom is at work all day anyways, I always get home earlier then her. Thank you for bringing that thought back to my mind.


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## Happy Bunno (Jan 4, 2019)

melonpan said:


> @Happy Bunno - I'm sure your mom is coming from a good place, but doesn't realize how much exercise your bunny actually needs.
> 
> You shouldn't have to starve him to make him lose weight - he still needs to eat something. I'm not sure what kind of food your rabbit is eating now, but if you are feeding him pellets, I'd say limit the amount of pellets you give him. Just focus on slowly feeding him more hay and veggies and less of the rabbit pellets. If you do give him pellets still, maybe you can feed him in a slow-feed dish (if you can).


Not to sound rude, but where did you get the idea that I'm starving him? I feed him twice a day: in the morning I give him fresh greens and veggies, at night I give him a little bit of veggies or some greens and a tablespoon of pellets. Hay and water are always available. I don't know if it's a good diet, but that's what I have been giving him. I'm not sure but I might be giving too many greens....


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## Imbrium (Jan 6, 2019)

Hermelin said:


> Can you maybe use the bathroom as a bigger cage during the time no one is home.
> 
> I often use the bathroom in my house as a temporary cage before my family accepted to have him run around free roaming and the house was bunny proofed.



I just want to say... be careful about bathrooms!

Our old apartment had hard floors, allowing for the use of x-pens, but the new place is on the 2nd floor and it's ALL carpet except kitchen and bathrooms (Layne and Alice are both carpet destroyers). When we first moved in, it took me a couple weeks to figure out what coroplast-floored condos I was building and where, plus gather materials and get them made. Between carpets and cats, the rabbits absolutely can't run around loose here unless someone is keeping an eye on them... so I figured they could live in the bathrooms until they had condos.

In one bathroom, Layne picked a spot and peeled some paint off the wall (naughty boy!) while Nala probably encouraged him, lol. That's our little "lambers" for you, he's always had a thing for drywall.

In the other bathroom...

Early on a Sunday morning, our downstairs neighbors started banging on our door/bedroom window to get our attention. Why? Because there was water coming down their walls in the master bathroom/closet area! Hubby answered the door, started freaking out and woke me up. I scrambled for my glasses and ran to the bathroom... which was FLOODED. *A small geyser of water was spraying up about 5 feet in the air, originating behind the toilet. In the middle of all the chaos was a very shocked, confused and damp little holland lop. *Yeah. Genius rabbit had chewed through the line that carries water from the wall/pipes into the toilet tank.

So I dive for the knob that cuts the water supply off at the wall and then scoop up Alice, wrap her in a towel and start drying her off/making sure she wasn't going into shock from getting wet... all the while freaking out that we might get evicted b/c the neighbors called maintenance and I had no way to explain a hole in the water line caused by an animal we weren't supposed to have. Thankfully, they took a while to arrive on a Sunday morning and when I answered the door, I calmly assured them I had gotten the problem fixed (while praying like crazy for no follow-up questions!). Lucky me, he assumed the toilet had overflowed and that's why I had been able to fix the problem myself so quickly... then departed. I told the neighbors the truth about a rabbit causing the incident; fortunately, they didn't rat us out (perhaps because I loaned them our shop-vac and shared the carpet cleaning machine I rented from Home Depot).

*The moral of the story is this: if you're going to leave rabbits unsupervised in a bathroom, it's probably a good idea to use NIC grids or something to block access to the back of the toilet.
*
On a side note, as soon as I was sure that Alice was no worse for wear from her ordeal, husband and I laughed our butts off thinking about the face she must've made when she first broke through the pipe and suddenly got a snout full of water. 

~~~~~

As for the guilt, Happy Bunno, 8 hours of time outside of his cage is quite generous. Yes, it's a small cage... but some things in life are beyond our control - there's only so much you can do when you have to answer to your parents, you know? We've all been there at some point in our lives. The important thing is that you do what you can for him. You give him as much time out of the cage as you can, you love him, you give him attention...

Think about all the rabbits out there in shelters, living in little cages no bigger than 2' x 2', usually with no time out of their cages and rarely any toys. If he didn't have you taking care of him, he might've ended up with far less! I've read enough of your posts in my short time back here on these forums to recognize what a caring and concerned bunny slave you are - please don't beat yourself up about things you can't do anything about!

Edit: oh, and I just noticed your last post:


Happy Bunno said:


> I feed him twice a day: in the morning I give him fresh greens and veggies, at night I give him a little bit of veggies or some greens and a tablespoon of pellets. Hay and water are always available. I don't know if it's a good diet, but that's what I have been giving him. I'm not sure but I might be giving too many greens....



That sounds good... pretty light on pellets but as long as you feed a variety of greens, then that amount is just fine. Is he eating about his body's volume in hay each day? As long as he's a good hay eater and isn't getting poopy butt or an upset tummy or anything, there's no reason to worry that it's too much veggies (well, the leafy green kinds - non-leafy-greens should be very limited/just as a treat).


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## Imbrium (Jan 6, 2019)

One other tip I forgot to add... in my experience, rabbits really seem to appreciate television! If you can leave a TV (or radio) playing when he's stuck in the cage during the day, I bet he'd enjoy that. It's funny, after a while you can actually pick up the subtle cues about what they like or don't like. Nala loves TV the most out of our rabbits. Hubby and I both noticed that she and Layne really seem to pay extra attention to Survivorman and other nature-type shows... but when hubby put True Blood on, they REALLY didn't give a darn about it! They also like the MTV show "Rob and Big" for some reason, lol. We think it's because everyone on the show is so energetic.


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## melonpan (Jan 8, 2019)

Happy Bunno said:


> Not to sound rude, but where did you get the idea that I'm starving him? I feed him twice a day: in the morning I give him fresh greens and veggies, at night I give him a little bit of veggies or some greens and a tablespoon of pellets. Hay and water are always available. I don't know if it's a good diet, but that's what I have been giving him. I'm not sure but I might be giving too many greens....



Sorry, I completely misread your post! I didn't realize it was your mother that mentioned the starving bit...
Anyways, the amount of greens and pellets seem fine. What kind of hay are you feeding your rabbit?

His weight might just be going hand in hand with the fact that he doesn't have enough space to run and jump around to lose that extra weight.


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## JBun (Jan 9, 2019)

Imbrium said:


> I just want to say... be careful about bathrooms!
> 
> Our old apartment had hard floors, allowing for the use of x-pens, but the new place is on the 2nd floor and it's ALL carpet except kitchen and bathrooms (Layne and Alice are both carpet destroyers). When we first moved in, it took me a couple weeks to figure out what coroplast-floored condos I was building and where, plus gather materials and get them made. Between carpets and cats, the rabbits absolutely can't run around loose here unless someone is keeping an eye on them... so I figured they could live in the bathrooms until they had condos.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry Jennifer, but this had me totally cracking up! I could just see her soaked, water everywhere, and looking totally confused about how she got into this mess. I actually never considered the water line being chewable back there(don't know why cause it is). Good reminder.


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## Imbrium (Jan 11, 2019)

We still laugh about it sometimes and it happened almost two years ago, lol.


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## Happy Bunno (Jan 12, 2019)

melonpan said:


> Sorry, I completely misread your post! I didn't realize it was your mother that mentioned the starving bit...
> Anyways, the amount of greens and pellets seem fine. What kind of hay are you feeding your rabbit?
> 
> His weight might just be going hand in hand with the fact that he doesn't have enough space to run and jump around to lose that extra weight.


I'm currently using meadow hay and I don't know if that's ok...


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## Happy Bunno (Jan 12, 2019)

Imbrium said:


> I just want to say... be careful about bathrooms!
> 
> Our old apartment had hard floors, allowing for the use of x-pens, but the new place is on the 2nd floor and it's ALL carpet except kitchen and bathrooms (Layne and Alice are both carpet destroyers). When we first moved in, it took me a couple weeks to figure out what coroplast-floored condos I was building and where, plus gather materials and get them made. Between carpets and cats, the rabbits absolutely can't run around loose here unless someone is keeping an eye on them... so I figured they could live in the bathrooms until they had condos.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much!
Yes he eats a lot of hay. I give him different types of veggies and greens too. He has a problem with drinking water though... how much water does a rabbit need?


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## Imbrium (Jan 12, 2019)

"Meadow hay" is grass hay, making it perfectly suitable for your bunny.

Water consumption can vary from rabbit to rabbit. When Nala and Gaz were maybe 3-4 months old, it seemed like Gaz was drinking a lot more water than Nala... I was paranoid and took them to the vet and had a urinalysis done on both of them. They were both fine and the vet explained that it really does just vary from one bunny to the next. It's also entirely possible that your rabbit doesn't seem to drink that much because you're feeding him a lot of leafy green veggies, which double as a good source of water/hydration.

Do you use a water bottle or a bowl? Most rabbits will drink more water when it's offered in a bowl rather than a bottle.


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## CharlieRae (Jan 12, 2019)

your beautiful bun looks like mine! And I have a similar sized cage I keep her in while I am at work. I work 8 hrs a day. I come home at lunch and let her out for 2 hrs. Then she gets free roam time from 3pm to 10pm. She is perfectly fine. Your rabbit is ok in the cage. Would he like more free roam time? Probably, but he is ok. You can continue to work on your mom, I'd suggest going up for space. Good luck!


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## Happy Bunno (Jan 13, 2019)

Imbrium said:


> "Meadow hay" is grass hay, making it perfectly suitable for your bunny.
> 
> Water consumption can vary from rabbit to rabbit. When Nala and Gaz were maybe 3-4 months old, it seemed like Gaz was drinking a lot more water than Nala... I was paranoid and took them to the vet and had a urinalysis done on both of them. They were both fine and the vet explained that it really does just vary from one bunny to the next. It's also entirely possible that your rabbit doesn't seem to drink that much because you're feeding him a lot of leafy green veggies, which double as a good source of water/hydration.
> 
> Do you use a water bottle or a bowl? Most rabbits will drink more water when it's offered in a bowl rather than a bottle.


I guess I am a bit paranoid... btw I use a water bowl


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