# Don't know why Penny pees in the same spot every day



## kirbyultra (Aug 22, 2010)

I adopted Penny in April and she has been the most atrocious bunny in terms of litter habits, I have ever met. Over the course of the last 3.5 months she's worked it up to about 70-80% making it to the litter box. But she insists that every morning (right before I wake up, I think) she'll pee in a spot that is literally right next to her litter box. I don't need to tell you how obnoxiously annoying it is for a rabbit to pee on the floor every day! I have a giant towel that covers the entire floor so I can't just clean it every day. I clean it about once a week, but by then it's accumulated 7 days' worth of urine in that 1 spot grows and grows in size, and it smells terrible. 

If I move her litter box over a few inches to the right to cover that spot she'll go over and pee directly to the left of the litter box instead. :X:X:X I just can't win with her! 

Every once in a while (but I'd say at least once a week) she'll pee somewhere else also but she pees EVERY SINGLE DAY in a spot that is right next to her box. She knows perfectly well how to use a litter box. For some reason she just likes to take her morning whiz nearby...

What's a person to do?! Any suggestions for me?


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## NorthernAutumn (Aug 23, 2010)

HA! 
Slatey does the EXACT same thing to me in the run. 

I really don't have any solutions, except to tell you that I share your pain!

I've found that if I keep the run box a bit dirtier, he gets there more regularly... *sigh*.


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## kirbyultra (Aug 23, 2010)

NorthernAutumn wrote:


> I've found that if I keep the run box a bit dirtier, he gets there more regularly... *sigh*.



I need a hug, Autumn! SIGH. 

Dirtier? I don't know if it's _her_ or more likely, because both my buns like to her "her" litter box more often than "Kirby's" litter box, but her box always smells like a dump! Woof! About 4.5 days is as long as I can go before I have to clean their litter box and without fail she'll pee in that special spot on the floor no matter if it's day 1 of litter box or day 4. Grumble!:X


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## NorthernAutumn (Aug 23, 2010)

I was thinking about it a bit more.... Actually, when I wrap the NIC panel run around the litterbox a bit more (kind of like a little pooping alcove), he hits the box regularly, cause he can't be on either side. He has to be inside the box, or at the front of the box then.

That's worked well.

The proximity to the boys is probably also playing a role. The guys may also be spraying the side of the box, and she is doing her own retalitory marking.

In my case, Slatey's litterbox in the run fronts onto Stu and Evie's property line, so I think I tend to get more territorial piddles there as a result.


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## kirbyultra (Aug 23, 2010)

She's not spraying the side of the box. She is just squatting beside it and taking a whizzer. 







If I block her with a NIC panel she'll just squat there anyway and pee. I wonder what'll happen if I put an additional litter box there at night. I swear, if she pees beside THAT box................ ssd:


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## NorthernAutumn (Aug 23, 2010)

That's the exact same as what is going on at my house.

See where the hinge of your run is? I bend the next panel (on the right of the photo) in to surround the box.

The piddle area is completely avoided - she simply can't access the space.


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## Tweetiepy (Aug 23, 2010)

Bunnies seem to like to squat in a corner - try moving the hay rack to the other corner so she can use the cage/litter corner to pee - maybe put a toy or something that she won,t want to pee on in the corner she pees in??

Mine mostly pees in the corner next to his hay rack which is in the corner of his cage, maybe she wants the security of peeing against the grid AND the litter box?

Hope this helps 

PS: leaving the urine there for a week might be why she keeps peeing there too - maybe use those puppy training pads??? Not sure how much they are and if it's cost effective or not


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## Nancy McClelland (Aug 23, 2010)

try putting another box there and fill it with shredded newspaper. We also took and apple box and cut a couple holes and put the litter box inside, so it's like a bunny cave. Or, it just might be a territorial thing. All bunnies are different. We sure miss Commander Bun-Bun as she would only go in the litter box, poo in one spot and pee in another--she was the neatest rabbit we ever had. Good luck.


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## missyscove (Aug 23, 2010)

Have you actually seen her do it?
I've seen my Timmy get in the box, back up so just the edge of his bum is over the edge, then pee. 
I think he thinks he's in the box, but it just lands outside of it.


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## Korr_and_Sophie (Aug 23, 2010)

Can you get some smaller towels or something absorbent so you can use one a day. Then you can just wash them once a week, but don't have to deal with the smell all the time. Even paper towel could work for a bit. 

Have you tried putting the hay at the end of the litter box? Lillian would pee outside the litter box becasue she could eat the hay without being in the box. Once I moved the hay so she has to be in the box, she doesn't do it anymore. 

Putting something in that corner so she can't sit there and pee could help. It should be something she can't move, but easy to clean if she does pee there. 

Keeping that spot really clean should help break the habit. Use something you can remove daily and clean the spot with a pet enzyme cleaner. Hopefully not having the smell there will help break the habit.


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 23, 2010)

Is she still drinking a lot? I've noticed since it's been summer and hot, Gus has been drinking more and therefore peeing more and also not being as good about his litter habits. :rollseyes

I definitely agree that moving the hay rack so she can back into the cornerof the pen (in the top part of the picture) may help encourage her to go there instead of on the floor.

It may also well be she's peeing over the side, though that doesn't really look to be the case here. The times Gus has peed over the side his new litter box, the pee has generally pooled underneath it.

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 23, 2010)

Incidentally,could you use a puppy pee pad there instead of a towel (or would she chew it?). That, at least, should absorb the smell a bit better.

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## kirbyultra (Aug 23, 2010)

It's been a long progression with her since I adopted her. She peed everywhere multiple times a day when I first got her. But now I control how much water she drinks (she drinks it *as soon as I put the dish down*) so she doesn't pee as much anymore. 

Previously there was no giant towel on the floor, so when she peed on the floor, I'd wipe and clean it immediately or as quickly as I spotted it. There was no telling when she'd pee except that I was sure she would pee, so sometimes it'd be a little while till I saw it. She'd get the pee on herself and bounce around the whole pen with urine on her fur :shock: So that's why I now have this giant towel - so that no matter where she peed, it'd be absorbed. It's not pretty and doesn't smell so hot after 6-7 days, but it's the only way I can be sure the place could be maintained relatively sanitary. 

That said, I don't think cleaning it is the answer. History tells me she'll pee there if it's dirty or if it's clean, or if it smells like vinegar, etc. Maybe blocking it is the answer. I'll try to put something there and see how she behaves with it in the way. 

The hay bin is as far in the left corner as I can get it 

I have never seen Penny actually pee there with my own eyes. Usually it's clean at night, and by morning there'd be a urine spot. But I kind of doubt she's in the box and "missing"/overshooting. There's no residue to indicate that she was inside and she lifted her tail too far out and shot it out of the box. I have seen Penny pee in other spots and it's pretty stealth. She'd look like she's just sitting, and then suddenly there's a urine spot! She hardly lifts a tail, which explains why she used to have a urine stain on her tail 

Actually, now that I look at it again, Autumn, I could shift my litter box 90 degrees counter clockwise and the pen panels on either side will almost completely block off either side of the litter box. Maybe that'll do the trick.....


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 23, 2010)

I meant move it all the way to the right so she has a "natural" corner to sit in.

Like this (X marks the pee spot!  ):





Gus's litter box is set up very similarly, and he always pees in that same corner. Right where you haveyour hay bin! 

Another option might be to hang the hay basket higher (like a hay net for horses). That way she'll have the entire litter box to pee in whatever corner she chooses.

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## kirbyultra (Aug 23, 2010)

Ohh, I see  I could try that as well... what's the worse that'll happen? She'll pee 

I have tried hanging it higher but none of my buns seem to get how to eat hay through the bars of the rack. They streeeetch their necks and stand on their hind feet trying to reach the top. It's sad to watch, so I lowered it lol


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 23, 2010)

Hehe! There's a shelf over top Gus's litter box, so (when he did have hay in there) he couldn't eat from the top. But when we went travelling, and I attached his hay rack to the side of his pen, he was doing that too. Lazy bunny. 

Rue


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## kirbyultra (Aug 24, 2010)

Ugh she peed there anyway. I shifted the box 90 degrees counterclockwise so that it would be surrounded by the pen panels. So you know what she did? She peed right in front of the box, thereby expanding the infamous spot. Some of the pee even shot off the towel onto the floor so now it's *everywhere*. I'm so pissed off. She has to pee RIGHT OUTSIDE the @(%&@#*%! litter box even though it's RIGHT THERE. UGHHHHHHHHHHH.


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 24, 2010)

What a turd!

This is definitely an ingrained habit. I hate to say it, but maybe you need to do a complete reno on her cage to shake her up a bit?

Otherwise I really have no solutions? Litter boxes in every corner (including the ones created by other litter boxes?)



Rue


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## Boz (Aug 24, 2010)

*missyscove wrote: *


> Have you actually seen her do it?
> I've seen my Timmy get in the box, back up so just the edge of his bum is over the edge, then pee.
> I think he thinks he's in the box, but it just lands outside of it.


Dolla does that! How, I don't know. Marley can fit her huge 11lbs bum in a little 12x12 little box and will never accidentally pee over the edge. But Dolla, her little 3 lbs bum can! lol!

*ETA:* I also wanted to add that Dolla is a huge pain! She will pee out of the litter box a lot. Daily. She (with her two other buddies) were in a pen. It was getting ridiculous and the floor is so stained I'm going to have to use some seriously strong stuff (and do some serious scrubbing) to get the stains off.:grumpy: So finally, fed up with it I redid their pen and made them a cage with 5 levels (going to add another one level soon!). She had one accident the first night and I put another litter box on one of the shelves. As far as I'm aware she hasn't gone out of the litter box yet.:biggrin: However, when I let her out for run time she will pee on the floor.:grumpy: So now her run time is restricted. The floor is so gross where their pen was. I want to scrub it real good sometime this next week. Thank goodness it's in the basement.


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## kirbyultra (Aug 24, 2010)

funnybunnymummy wrote:


> What a turd!
> 
> This is definitely an ingrained habit. I hate to say it, but maybe you need to do a complete reno on her cage to shake her up a bit?
> 
> ...



LOL Yeah what a TURD indeed! I've been through so many interations in the rabbit room since getting her and really, none of them are any better or worse in terms of her peeing. I've tried removing flooring, different flooring, traction, no traction, cleaning, not cleaning, litter boxes all over the place, and it's no help at all. She's just a pain in my butt! Kirby... had to fall in love with such an improper girl. :grumpy: :rollseyes


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## kirbyultra (Aug 24, 2010)

Oh and guess what? Today I got bonus pee. She just peed on the side that is freed up because I moved the litter box over a scooch. And then she stomped in it and tracked it all over the rabbit room. 

I think that's her last chance. Bonded or not she's now confined her own space. The only thing that ever worked throughout the entire 4 months I've had her is when I made her caged space very small. 6 xpen panels big. I will let her out to play but I just can't stand her pee anymore. I was already on the edge when I started this thread. My patience with her urine had reached a boiling point but now it's completely boiled over. I am so glad I have a big vacation coming up because I really need a break from cleaning after her. :banghead


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## NorthernAutumn (Aug 24, 2010)

yup, I agree... try a total reno of cage area to throw her off, and surround the new litterbox with the panels, hay just slightly above box.

She certainly plays you well!:biggrin:


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## kirbyultra (Aug 25, 2010)

I think that I can't deal with her anymore ATM. I put her in a small pen space this afternoon. This evening I let her and Kirby out to play together for about an hour. All was well until I turned around for 2 minutes on my laptop and when I looked back again there it was, another puddle of pee. Back into the pen she went. 

It sucks because I know the bun buns miss each other. I just mentally can't deal with any more of her pee. Maybe I will squeeze Kirby into her small pen so they can snuggle together. I think I MAY lose it if she pees one more time. 

You know when you've done everything you could for an animal and they just literally piss all over your efforts? I'm done.


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## kirbyultra (Aug 25, 2010)

I had a cup of coffee at 7pm last night so I was awake most of the night. I decided to usher Kirby into Penny's little pen and they groomed each other. It was really sweet to watch... and made it all the more difficult to be so cold hearted and separate them indefinitely.  Kirby was so lonely in his penthouse suite yesterday. I just don't think I have the heart to sever their bond over this.

Here's Penny's smaller pen now. I may move her litter box back to that end-spot where it's wedged between two pen panels. I honestly don't think it will make a difference but... whatever!






In Penny's little pen, she is making no progress. She peed all over the place overnight. She pooped everywhere also. So, I don't know what I'm going to do.

I may very well end up re-doing her place totally, like you ladies suggested. I just don't know what I could possibly do that is different than what I have already done, you know what I mean? I'm at a loss. The only really significant thing I can think of is to put her in a standalone cage, the one that Toby used to live in. But it's *tiny* and her giant litter box would never ever fit in there, at least with any room left for her! 

I'm at my wit's end...


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## kirbyultra (Aug 25, 2010)

Someone recommended these, they use it to cope with accidents from their geriatric bun. 

http://www.allegromedical.com/incontinence-c525/grayson-reusable-bedpads-p193256.html

I bought two. I don't really know if they'll hold up to my digging, biting bunny. But, I'm pretty desperate......


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## NorthernAutumn (Aug 26, 2010)

I don't think it is wise to separate Kirby and Penny too much if they are bonded, and are used to being together.

Try getting rid of the towel for starters. No matter how much vinegar I use, my rabbits know what they have peed on, and will do it again without any qualms. Maybe try a plastic tarp for the time being?

How deep is the litter in the litterbox?

(Is she spayed? I can't remember...?)


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## kirbyultra (Aug 26, 2010)

She peed on the plain floor even before I put the towel on. She had no flooring, just the plain hardwood, for a couple weeks. Then I put vinyl flooring down for several months. The towel has only been on the floor for about a month.

I broke down and gave them their daytime hours together as usual. They are typically separated at night. That's the way it has been since they were bonded because Kirby can't get a bite to eat if they are together 24/7.

BTW this is what I found this morning... I put her water bowl in The Spot. So... she peed into the bowl... 





Uhh.... I don't know why she insists on peeing there! I cleaned up the entire area today and put a clean towel down. I moved the litter box to be wedged between the panels. 





I close up the left side, of course, but that's the gist of it for now...

Hopefully, the bed pads (when they deliver) will cover all the space around the litter box and if she pees, it won't be such a big deal. I can clean it once a day or every two days and it won't be such a stink. 

The litter box is about 7 inches deep on the deep end, and about 5-6 inches deep on the shallow end. She has peed surrounding either side of the box though. 

Penny was spayed in February this year.


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## kirbyultra (Aug 27, 2010)

Update: Yep, didn't take Penny long before she peed in the same spot, this time in front of the litterbox since I rotated the litterbox and it's surrounded by pen panels on either side. 

I have a theory that I have sort of joked about for why she pees on the floor repetitively. It doesn't not address why she pees in that particular spot, but I think she pees and poops on the floor when she gets excited and thinks she's about to be fed. Here's why I think so:

Some days I notice that when I wake up and check in on her first thing, the floor is dry. I go to wash up, and when I revisit the bun room, she's peed on the floor. She knows that when I wake up I invariably feed the buns. And she gets very worked up about it, she's practically climbing up the sides of the pen, periscoping, charging at the pen, etc.

At night when I put the buns away for the night, I do a clean sweep of the room because Kirby and Penny have made a mess playing all day. Pooper scooper is employed to clean up every stray poop. Penny never fights me when I put her away, like my other buns. She gets super excited like a puppy and she can't contain herself and literally starts to poop everywhere she hops in, like what you would normally see with hormonal buns marking. And sometimes when she finally gets her food at night, she seems to "forget" her litter training and just squats to eat and poops where she's squatting.

...it's strange, but... do buns get so excited during meal time that they literally start to lose "it"? My husband is like "hah, she's making room for the food you're about to feed her". Oh gosh. :rollseyes


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 27, 2010)

Threequestions:

Is she on timothy or alfalfa pellets?

How much fresh salad does she get?

And how much does she drink?

Rue


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## kirbyultra (Aug 27, 2010)

Timothy pellets.
she gets a small plate, maybe just 3-4 leaves a day. She used to get more but water content made her pee a lot and get poopie butt.
She can drink a lot if left to her own devices. But I give her around 2-3 ounces several times a day. I cannot put down a dish with a cup or a bottle. She can and has downed it all in one sitting and leaves herself none the rest of the day so I pace her manually.


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## funnybunnymummy (Aug 27, 2010)

I couldn't remember, but I thought she was on timothy pellets. I've read that alfalfa pellets cause rabbits to pee more (and in Gus's case, that's certainly the case! :shock.

In the wild, rabbits get nearly all their water from the greens they eat. So that's why I asked about the salad. If she was getting a lot of salad, I was going to suggest maybe cutting back on her water.

I Googled and found some info on water consumption and it basically said rabbitson averagedrink about 3-4ounces of water per pound of bunny per day. So a 5 lb. bun should drink 6-8 ounces of water per day. (Gus drinks about 8-10 ounces. 12 if it's really hot out.) So it doesn't sound like she's drinking HUGE amounts of water.

You took her to the vet and had her checked for a URI or kidney problems, etc. didn't you?

Hope that helps!

Rue


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## kirbyultra (Aug 27, 2010)

Yes, absolutely. Penny got blood checked, urine checked and an x ray of her bladder done. She is perfectly healthy. I told the vet that she also hops kind of strange for a rabbit. Sometimes she walks like she's bipedal LOL He looked at the xray of her spine too and also tested her weight distribution and usage of her hind legs. Everything checked out. She's just a weird rabbit! 

I don't know if I mentioned this but when I first got her she was easily slurping up about 8-10 crocks of water a day. As soon as I put down the crock she drank it dry. And I would do it so many times every day and she never let it alone. The more I rationed her the more reasonable her upper limit became. But she still thinks that the water dish is like, the best thing EVER lol Sometimes if I sit on the floor and my hands are wet after washing, she'll totally lick my hands dry.... 

I don't know if that's at all relevant to her pattern peeing though.


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## Mackenzie Salm (Jul 3, 2019)

I know this was like a LONG time ago but I just have to put my thoughts in. I don't know if you have tried sort of re litter box training her? Like taking a paper towel and putting it in the area she pees in when she pees on it put it in the litter box and clean the area she peed in with water and vinegar. This should work after a while because rabbits usually go in the same spots and if they smell their pee in the litter box they will think they went there. The vinegar is so she stops smelling her pee where she keeps peeing.


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## Butterscotch (Jul 4, 2019)

missyscove said:


> Have you actually seen her do it?
> I've seen my Timmy get in the box, back up so just the edge of his bum is over the edge, then pee.
> I think he thinks he's in the box, but it just lands outside of it.


This is what I was going to suggest too. I've seen my Goose back into the corner of his litter box only to pee right over the side of it. I bought tall sided sterlite containers that I will be swapping out for the litter boxes this weekend in hopes of helping him improve his aim.


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## Butterscotch (Jul 4, 2019)

I just noticed this thread is from 2010! Oops!


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